**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jan 20 02:59:57 2008 Jan 20 03:00:02 * SpeedEvil tries. Jan 20 03:00:06 i just tab cmplete my make targets Jan 20 03:00:10 * raster loves zsh Jan 20 03:00:16 That is nifty Jan 20 03:00:21 make up Jan 20 03:00:26 yup Jan 20 03:00:29 zsh is nifty Jan 20 03:00:34 very nifty Jan 20 03:00:34 If it'd complete URLs too, that'd be good :) Jan 20 03:00:39 I keep trying to do that. Jan 20 03:00:40 the best interactive shell i have used Jan 20 03:00:49 it can complete ssh params Jan 20 03:01:28 scp www.myb[box.com let's say]:/tmp/myfi Jan 20 03:01:44 it will look in your ssh history for the mahcine name to complete Jan 20 03:02:01 nice Jan 20 03:02:03 and when completing paths on the remtoe host it literally ssh's in and checks the dir contents to see what to complete Jan 20 03:02:18 does it all in the background for u Jan 20 03:02:44 it knows many common unix cmd's and options Jan 20 03:02:52 so i do tar zxf file Jan 20 03:02:59 it will ONLY complete files called Jan 20 03:03:10 *.tgz *.tar.gz *.tar.Z Jan 20 03:03:11 for example Jan 20 03:03:15 and ignore all other files Jan 20 03:03:24 (oh also dirs and the file could be inside the dir) Jan 20 03:03:50 raster: bash does that too... you just have to install some bash completion script thingy (comes installed by default on Kubuntu) Jan 20 03:04:03 yeah Jan 20 03:04:06 thats newish in bash Jan 20 03:04:13 zsh has been doing this for the past decade Jan 20 03:04:13 not the ssh stuff Jan 20 03:04:29 and thats pretty nice Jan 20 03:04:48 overall zsh is very nice Jan 20 03:04:56 i am happy swithcing from bash Jan 20 03:06:10 * balrog-kun loves bash-completion, but usually doesn't have it on because of the few annoying cases like when using files without dots that i like to use Jan 20 03:06:26 it also ssh's in when you type an scp command and want completion, etc Jan 20 03:10:02 oh wait, scp is what you talked about Jan 20 03:10:11 * balrog-kun really off to bed Jan 20 03:22:58 Ooops - the Openmoko dash thing was still in the wikipedia entry. Jan 20 04:44:52 raster: is GTA03 in the making? Jan 20 04:45:02 in discussion Jan 20 04:45:06 no Jan 20 04:45:15 oh Jan 20 04:45:19 believe him Jan 20 04:45:32 wow lol you 2 always come up with completely diffrent answers Jan 20 04:45:36 its all up in the air Jan 20 04:46:01 SOC is undetermined Jan 20 04:46:06 if we go for high or low end - unknonw Jan 20 04:46:30 do we stick with vga or go to another screen (qvga? wqvga?) etc. Jan 20 04:46:31 unknown Jan 20 04:46:51 we are investigating several SOC possibilites Jan 20 04:46:59 when i ask about 3d accel raster says no speed says yes Jan 20 04:47:01 each has plusses and minuses for different reasons Jan 20 04:47:14 justin111: well both answers were right Jan 20 04:47:19 technically the chip can do 3d Jan 20 04:47:24 but u wont see any drivers for it Jan 20 04:47:27 thus i said no Jan 20 04:47:31 SVG acceleration would be nice, 3D not so. Dunno how well that integrates with GTK, though. Jan 20 04:47:35 (well u might see drivers - if u are lucky) Jan 20 04:47:41 Tronic: nooooo chance. Jan 20 04:47:42 I said yes, as I hasn't been keeping up with all the announcements on the website. Jan 20 04:47:49 It is difficult to accelerate SVG rendering with OpenGL. Jan 20 04:47:55 In short - believe raster most of the time. Jan 20 04:49:12 hehehe Jan 20 04:49:22 gta02 is definitely on our minds as such Jan 20 04:49:27 but no real hard concrete work Jan 20 04:49:33 if you have input - mumble stuff Jan 20 04:49:47 i'm sure i'll hear it Jan 20 04:50:07 for example Jan 20 04:50:10 if we go qvga Jan 20 04:50:14 we can scale down specs Jan 20 04:50:17 and make it cheaper Jan 20 04:50:20 but i'll have less pixels Jan 20 04:50:39 I assume there is a LCD panel price penalty for QVGA and VGA of the same size? Jan 20 04:50:51 * SpeedEvil notes that the PSP LCD is down at $30 Jan 20 04:50:52 and less "my schlong is bigger than your schlong" fun as u compare resolutions with your iphone fanbois Jan 20 04:51:04 SpeedEvil: yup Jan 20 04:51:31 theres a premium for anything that isnt hyper-common Jan 20 04:51:37 even if it is produced in large numbers Jan 20 04:51:44 it may have already all been biught up by vendors Jan 20 04:51:57 eg the 320x480 lcd in the iphon & ithouch is impossible to find Jan 20 04:52:04 apple basically has bought up the entire supply Jan 20 04:52:25 so u always have to make compromises that are not just technical on how good it is or performance or price - supply itself will vfary it Jan 20 04:53:34 raster: I'm contemplating a silly modular phone built around tincantools.com 's hammer, and a PSP LCD Jan 20 04:53:39 raster: well - phone/... Jan 20 04:54:34 SpeedEvil: it will be a fairly bulky phone :) Jan 20 04:54:58 the psp lcd isnt too bad Jan 20 04:55:00 raster: not that bad actually. Jan 20 04:55:01 but it is very big Jan 20 04:55:06 u'd make a physically HUGE phone Jan 20 04:55:37 raster: I think about 20mm*120mm*80mm - from some models Jan 20 04:55:46 sure Jan 20 04:56:05 tho ther neo is 120mm or so in length - in TOTAL Jan 20 04:56:15 so u'll end up wiht like 150mm with extra casing etc. Jan 20 04:57:35 well lets see Jan 20 04:57:44 raster: it's not for that. Jan 20 04:57:59 raster: it's mainly a flexible dev board Jan 20 04:58:08 raster: that is in a little case Jan 20 04:58:54 raster: it's not going to be smaller than a neo, or really compete in many ways other than you can easily add stuff. Jan 20 04:59:12 ooh cool Jan 20 04:59:12 raster: add or leave off the GSM and GPS module for example Jan 20 04:59:19 just a private "look - i built my own hw" project Jan 20 04:59:20 :) Jan 20 04:59:25 Sort-of. Jan 20 04:59:36 The tincantools device is so easy. Jan 20 04:59:51 DIP40 with RAM+s3c2410+flash Jan 20 05:02:20 how do i use GCC to compile a .cpp file Jan 20 05:03:27 gcc file.cpp -o file Jan 20 05:07:46 You use g++, normally. Jan 20 05:08:05 [justin@localhost ~]$ gcc hello.cpp Jan 20 05:08:05 hello.cpp:7:2: warning: no newline at end of file Jan 20 05:08:05 hello.cpp:4: error: expected constructor, destructor, or type conversion before ‘}’ token Jan 20 05:08:05 hello.cpp:4: error: expected declaration before ‘}’ token Jan 20 05:08:05 [justin@localhost ~]$ Jan 20 05:08:06 gcc does not link in the C++ libraries, as g++ does. Jan 20 05:09:48 what did i do wrong Jan 20 05:09:56 is it something with my code Jan 20 05:19:44 grrr kdevelop wont start on line 0 Jan 20 05:19:47 justin111, gcc is for C, g++ is for C++ Jan 20 05:19:56 oh Jan 20 05:19:58 thats why Jan 20 05:20:22 well i will install that once my updates are done Jan 20 05:20:30 and is eclipse any good Jan 20 05:21:12 dunno, most of my projects are small enough i just use vi/gcc/maybe a simple makefile Jan 20 05:23:07 oh ok Jan 20 05:23:50 from what i've heard, eclipse is very good Jan 20 05:41:45 * SpeedEvil ponders ERROR: Exception: Message:Status 1: mv: cannot stat `/mnt/data/om/t/build/tmp/work/neo1973-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3801-r13/patche Jan 20 05:42:32 s/patche/patch ? Jan 20 05:43:13 yes Jan 20 05:43:25 ... 1+svnr3801-r13/patches': No such file or directory Jan 20 05:43:48 * SpeedEvil 'll figure it out tomorrow Jan 20 05:44:00 's fair Jan 20 05:56:06 what would you rather have mandriva 2008 or fedora core 8 Jan 20 05:56:28 An a Neo??? Jan 20 05:56:38 no for desktop Jan 20 05:56:47 raster:you there Jan 20 05:57:15 What does that have to do with anything that should be discussed in here? Jan 20 05:57:24 no idea Jan 20 05:57:34 yup Jan 20 05:57:51 Meh, it was getting quiet :P Jan 20 05:57:52 just figured you guys where linux users so i was asking for an oppion Jan 20 05:58:16 Well first of all, as of Fedora 7, the 'Core' is no longer there. Jan 20 05:58:25 So it's just Fedora 8 Jan 20 05:58:40 But I would probably go with Fedora. Jan 20 05:58:41 i'm gonna bet raster would say neither, use e17 cvs Jan 20 05:58:59 thats not a distro Jan 20 05:58:59 :) Jan 20 05:59:13 what is that Jan 20 05:59:22 elivecd then :) Jan 20 05:59:40 just get slackware an GET OVER IT Jan 20 06:00:08 Now If I could chose any distro, then it would probably be either plain old (K)Ubuntu or something like Slackware or Gentoo. Jan 20 06:00:09 slackware has no package management and that makes it very hard for me Jan 20 06:00:16 lies Jan 20 06:00:26 Or if I really wanted to learn something, then LFS. :) Jan 20 06:00:31 slackpkg is preferred Jan 20 06:00:52 not a "true" package from what i understand Jan 20 06:01:12 You download packages.... and it installs them for you. Jan 20 06:01:26 nope it does it auto Jan 20 06:01:27 That, in essence, is a package management system. Jan 20 06:01:46 from a mirror u setup Jan 20 06:01:50 hopefully autopackage .package files will become more widly used Jan 20 06:02:10 brian_: Well, it comes from somewhere and they magically get installed. Jan 20 06:02:25 im not much of a developer isnt slack and gentoo more for devs Jan 20 06:02:37 im only in the hello world sage of C++ Jan 20 06:02:58 The idea behind apt, pacman, slackpkg, portage, whatever; it installs things for you. Jan 20 06:03:14 from package files. Jan 20 06:03:15 maybe ill do a LFS Jan 20 06:03:32 justin111: LFS would me more intensive then slackware, don't ya think? Jan 20 06:04:17 yah Jan 20 06:04:33 lol cross compileing compile flags etc. Jan 20 06:04:52 but in the end it would all be worth it a linux distro made just for my machine Jan 20 06:04:53 Ubuntu is a ready-made airplane, complete with leather seats and hot stewardesses, wearing bikinis if you install the restricted drivers, which is made extremely easy. Jan 20 06:05:20 Slackware is a simple airplane, and you can add stuff or strip it down as you see fit. Jan 20 06:05:25 i had kubuntu for like 3 months not a big fan of debain Jan 20 06:05:38 untill that package manager it has BLOWS U UP Jan 20 06:05:42 LFS is all the little bits to an airplane. You have to put them together. Jan 20 06:05:42 made for your machine .. yeah ... but maintaining it is a pain Jan 20 06:05:54 yeah lol thats what made me pissed Jan 20 06:06:19 slackpkg is so simple even u can do it Jan 20 06:07:00 I always thought apt was a bit more complicated than need be, and was very intimidating when I first started with Kubuntu. Jan 20 06:07:40 I have it down now, but I still think it's a bit weird. Jan 20 06:07:47 lol LFS guys got a linux distro to run apache 1.1 total diskspace 8mb Jan 20 06:08:01 have any of you seen nimbleX custom distro Jan 20 06:08:02 But I love Ubuntu. Jan 20 06:08:14 but we hate .deb files Jan 20 06:09:00 what's wrong with .debs? Jan 20 06:09:01 who hates deb files? Jan 20 06:09:07 apt-get == fantastic Jan 20 06:10:07 i have to agree with what brian says debi hosed my system Jan 20 06:10:22 now for the last 2 months i have been on mandriva Jan 20 06:10:26 whats debi? Jan 20 06:11:09 .deb Jan 20 06:11:14 debi is the installer Jan 20 06:11:30 oh .. i haven't done a new install in a looooong time Jan 20 06:11:34 dpkg is the installer Jan 20 06:11:48 apt-get is the front end for dpkg Jan 20 06:12:11 hm well something debi was what i remeber Jan 20 06:12:21 yeah i know Jan 20 06:12:29 apt is not my cup of tea Jan 20 06:12:35 never again Jan 20 06:12:42 <3 apt Jan 20 06:12:46 will i have apt hose my system Jan 20 06:13:13 i think i hosed my debian box a couple times. but it was entirely my fault and not apt's Jan 20 06:13:20 raster: what do you run Jan 20 06:13:44 RPM is ok Jan 20 06:13:46 not great Jan 20 06:13:54 but i like autopackage Jan 20 06:14:02 it works on anything that has python Jan 20 06:16:55 justin111: ubuntu Jan 20 06:17:59 raster: oh Jan 20 06:18:11 raster: why did apt hose my box Jan 20 06:18:18 dunno Jan 20 06:18:35 I believe it is a case of PEBKAC Jan 20 06:18:37 sometimes if u use multiple repositories the packages on different ones conflict Jan 20 06:18:43 u may need to fix it Jan 20 06:18:55 u can avoid it by only using ubuntus core default repos Jan 20 06:18:57 generally Jan 20 06:19:07 also its almost always fixable fairly easily Jan 20 06:23:17 well i think im switching to slackware Jan 20 06:23:34 i just made a custom one with nimbleX OS maker Jan 20 06:24:17 so now the qustion is fedora 8 or slackware Jan 20 06:24:26 my concolences Jan 20 06:24:34 haha Jan 20 06:24:36 on the switch Jan 20 06:24:45 not much of a choice he gives himself, huh? Jan 20 06:25:50 who me Jan 20 06:26:15 well i have one more blank CD Jan 20 06:26:22 after my nimbleX Jan 20 06:26:28 what do you recomend Jan 20 06:26:58 debian w/o a gui. vim. emacs if you're really dedicated (i'm not) Jan 20 06:27:18 haha w/o gui Jan 20 06:27:20 yeah right Jan 20 06:27:31 ubuntu Jan 20 06:27:32 im a linux noob Jan 20 06:27:37 why raster Jan 20 06:27:48 it will more than most other distros "just work" Jan 20 06:27:49 i told you about my experice with kubuntu Jan 20 06:28:06 it will have one of the largest sets of packages availabel to easily install later with a simple browse thru a gui Jan 20 06:28:20 yup Jan 20 06:28:33 and u'll find fedora slackarwe and everyhting sooner or later wills crew u to Jan 20 06:28:40 in one way or another Jan 20 06:28:48 well thats just debain in general good hardwae support etc. hence their slogan "the universal operating system" Jan 20 06:28:59 u avoid screwage by updating as little as possible Jan 20 06:29:27 when i first installed ubuntu i had 125 updates Jan 20 06:30:03 skrew linux im going to PCBSD Jan 20 06:30:04 .. Jan 20 06:30:06 no lol Jan 20 06:30:17 thats what i had on my old computer for a few years Jan 20 06:30:21 those updates shoouldnt have screwed u Jan 20 06:30:48 the only times i have been screwed is becaus ei had conflicts betwene packages from OTHER repositories outside ubuntu main that had conflicting crap Jan 20 06:30:58 well for something about as on topic as the current discussion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUpfmJs-uYM&feature=related Jan 20 06:31:00 and when i had a box that literally had its memory go bad Jan 20 06:31:28 binary distros suck Jan 20 06:31:40 t00na: hahahahaha Jan 20 06:31:52 CVirus: sourc distros suck Jan 20 06:31:59 i have to wait for days for the crap to compile Jan 20 06:32:30 fink has been compiling gimp all day :( Jan 20 06:32:53 no binaries yet for 10.5, i think Jan 20 06:33:16 also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xsttxw15Vw&feature=related Jan 20 06:33:48 kick the baby omg lol Jan 20 06:34:05 rofl those are both great Jan 20 06:34:14 i have made like 13241235412341234 notes to self never to have kids Jan 20 06:34:47 what web browsers do you guys use Jan 20 06:34:53 ffox Jan 20 06:35:02 opera Jan 20 06:35:29 ff3beta2 Jan 20 06:35:42 ffox, tab mix plus Jan 20 06:35:52 And one more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUfowCnFzKc&feature=related Jan 20 06:36:05 i like opera for bit torrent and IRC built in Jan 20 06:36:28 OWNED! Jan 20 06:37:08 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHO8l-Bd1O4 Jan 20 06:38:04 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-L-0s-7-Z0 Jan 20 06:38:09 naim/nirc for irc Jan 20 06:38:26 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjpn3L3bSJQ Jan 20 06:38:30 a bit more inspiring: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJY1oKF9hvU Jan 20 06:38:31 those are all i ahve Jan 20 06:38:49 rofl Jan 20 06:41:02 freespire any good Jan 20 06:42:13 PCLOS is pretty good if you have a hardwired network otherwise its useless unless you wanna skrew with ndiswrapper Jan 20 06:42:21 raster: is freespire any good Jan 20 06:42:52 i dont use it Jan 20 06:42:55 i dont need to Jan 20 06:43:08 is it any good tho Jan 20 06:43:24 u ask me to tell u if its good and i've never used it Jan 20 06:43:29 Just pick a distro that appeals to you and stick with it. Jan 20 06:44:42 oh Jan 20 06:44:59 thats the problem i cant find one that appeals to me when theres like 5000 Jan 20 06:45:02 i've used slackware, redhat, debian and ubuntu Jan 20 06:45:09 ubuntu has served me best so far Jan 20 06:45:13 and thus i stay with it Jan 20 06:46:13 i have gutsy sitting right next to me i just dont want to hose my system again cuz of apt Jan 20 06:46:43 apt does not tend to do that Jan 20 06:46:49 as i said before Jan 20 06:47:05 you had a weird rare glitch Jan 20 06:47:09 or u literally have broken hardware Jan 20 06:47:25 or it was a simple conflict simply fixed with the suggestions given by apt Jan 20 06:47:27 ha lol doubt that brand new computer Jan 20 06:47:29 eg apt-get -f install Jan 20 06:47:31 3 weeks old Jan 20 06:47:31 or whatever Jan 20 06:47:51 it can have bits go wrong Jan 20 06:48:10 people have bought cars and driven them off the lot only to have the stop 1 mile donw the road Jan 20 06:48:12 it DOES happen Jan 20 06:48:14 as i said Jan 20 06:48:18 what GUI do you use Jan 20 06:48:36 the only time i ever really saw hosing was when i had one of my memory sims fuck up Jan 20 06:48:41 i use e17 Jan 20 06:49:23 what is that Jan 20 06:49:29 enlightenment Jan 20 06:49:30 enlightenment Jan 20 06:49:33 lol Jan 20 06:49:39 is that any good Jan 20 06:49:44 don't ask me Jan 20 06:49:47 i'm biased Jan 20 06:49:49 i write it Jan 20 06:49:55 ahahaha Jan 20 06:49:57 lol Jan 20 06:50:11 i thought you where a OM dev Jan 20 06:51:04 i am Jan 20 06:51:34 i h8 kde 3.5 but im in love with kde4 GNOME is ok xfce is on my webserver Jan 20 06:52:01 i have never tried enlightenment im going to check it out Jan 20 06:52:26 you're in for a bit of work there Jan 20 06:52:27 :) Jan 20 06:52:38 err Jan 20 06:52:44 is your webserver running X? Jan 20 06:52:55 Vegar: he did say he's a noob Jan 20 06:53:10 that was just underscoring the fact :) Jan 20 06:54:00 yeah its running X i couldnt do it text based Jan 20 06:54:02 not that good Jan 20 06:54:20 is E a whole new window system like apart from X Jan 20 06:54:23 no Jan 20 06:54:29 its a windowmanager Jan 20 06:54:43 oh Jan 20 06:54:45 if u want to try it decentl u will end up needing to get it form cvs and compile/install yourself Jan 20 06:54:55 it wont hold your hand much Jan 20 06:55:02 its unreleased pre-alpha stuff atm Jan 20 06:55:20 I wish e17 had a system tray Jan 20 06:55:39 http://www.elivecd.org/ for those of us who love it but are too lazy to compile it Jan 20 06:55:45 e comes on 15 diffrent distros Jan 20 06:56:00 Vegar: sue toe the crappiness of the spec and implementations of systray icons by apps and toolkits - its not going to happen Jan 20 06:56:00 http://distrowatch.com/search.php?category=All&origin=All&basedon=All&desktop=Enlightenment&architecture=All&status=Active Jan 20 06:56:12 smlsfb: the e17 snap they use there is actually years old Jan 20 06:56:14 raster: yeah, I read that Jan 20 06:56:28 justin111: and which version of it? Jan 20 06:56:39 huh, did not know that Jan 20 06:56:41 i dunno latest i guess Jan 20 06:56:54 justin111: latest is 0.16.8 Jan 20 06:56:55 very pretty, all the same Jan 20 06:56:56 released Jan 20 06:57:03 i am on 0.16.999.041 Jan 20 06:57:15 whihc is basically e17 (but not released) Jan 20 06:57:23 and u basically get that from cvs Jan 20 06:57:30 i was very happy with e16 on my deb box Jan 20 06:57:42 Elive is the live CD right Jan 20 06:58:14 as raster mentioned, it's got an old version of e17 Jan 20 06:59:18 oh Jan 20 06:59:23 why old Jan 20 06:59:44 under development, hard to keep up Jan 20 07:00:01 oh Jan 20 07:08:01 * * OM Bug 1190 has been created by mail(AT)mmontour.net Jan 20 07:08:02 * * wm8753.c has incorrect "Mono Voice Playback Volume" definition Jan 20 07:08:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1190 Jan 20 07:13:33 i dont get ehy more people dont use linux its so much better Jan 20 07:38:47 now that's a stupid statement. Jan 20 07:38:52 [00:14] i dont get ehy more people dont use linux its so much better Jan 20 07:39:00 because people don't care. Jan 20 07:39:12 Try telling people the virtues of Linux. Just random people. Jan 20 07:39:18 They don't give a damn. Jan 20 07:42:39 turn pc on, check email, click on web page in email from little johnny, browse a bit, turn pc off Jan 20 07:43:18 maybe even ... play a game ! like spider solitaire ! :P Jan 20 07:59:45 raster:i have decided to give ubuntu er kubuntu another try Jan 20 08:03:01 * justin111 has dicided to give debain another try Jan 20 08:11:22 * justin111 is hoping he wont regret his decsion (apt hoseing his system) Jan 20 08:11:58 as i said Jan 20 08:12:00 i use ubuntu Jan 20 08:12:02 not debian Jan 20 08:12:23 ubuntu does tend to clean up/fix a lot of debian things compare to debian testing/unstable Jan 20 08:12:56 well ... ok its still debain based linux no? Jan 20 08:16:06 sure Jan 20 08:16:09 but very much modified Jan 20 08:16:18 its quite different in the result Jan 20 08:17:49 then ehy do people who set up webservers under debain linux use vanilla debain instead of ubuntu debian is 2nd as a webserver centOS being 1 Jan 20 08:18:38 because debian tends to be much more conservative Jan 20 08:18:44 it doesnt use the newest stuff Jan 20 08:18:49 it uses old well tested stuff Jan 20 08:18:55 for a server u want stability Jan 20 08:19:06 not the latest and greatest (eg drivers, kernels, apps etc.) Jan 20 08:19:17 ubuntu tends to be much more up to date than debian (stable) Jan 20 08:19:20 because debian has a reputation of being extremely stable, and it supposed to have a good security setup too Jan 20 08:19:27 yeah i know but you just said ubuntu does tend to clean up/fix a lot of debian things compare to debian testing/unstable Jan 20 08:19:31 if u move to debian unstable/testing to try and get new versions of stuff Jan 20 08:19:39 then u WILLL HAVE PROBLEMS Jan 20 08:19:44 its called unstable/testing for a reason Jan 20 08:20:01 justin111: that's like asking why don't you use a flood light to find a loose sock in your closet instead of a flashlight. Jan 20 08:20:13 They have two totally different purposes. Jan 20 08:20:29 hmmm well for my webserver im still going to use cent 5.2 Jan 20 08:20:33 except, it's way more badass to use the floodlight :-) Jan 20 08:20:34 5.1 Jan 20 08:20:56 summatusmentis: and it's way more badass to use vanilla debian as a desktop OS Jan 20 08:21:11 lol, true Jan 20 08:21:26 although, I love my OS X Jan 20 08:21:38 OS X = BSD Jan 20 08:21:42 OS X is a decent OS, but I hate Apple Jan 20 08:21:46 justin111: no it doesn't. Jan 20 08:21:50 It's based on BSD/Mach Jan 20 08:22:00 "based on" != "=" Jan 20 08:22:05 so theres still open source elements to it Jan 20 08:22:17 The kernel is repleased on teh APSL Jan 20 08:22:19 mostly just the kernel, and some of the cli utilities Jan 20 08:22:36 which is just barely Open Source Definition-compatible. Jan 20 08:22:46 afaik, absolutely none of the GUI stuff is OSS Jan 20 08:22:53 If you ask me, it really isn't. Jan 20 08:23:13 it's way too specific to Apple to be truly open. Jan 20 08:23:27 OS X is i lil closed i dont know what i would want to have OS X or win XP Jan 20 08:23:36 Vista = suxk Jan 20 08:23:53 why vista sux? Jan 20 08:24:04 Vista is a way of hanging yourself but you don't have the luxury of actually dying. Jan 20 08:24:16 not a real reason :p Jan 20 08:24:23 rd_: Try networking or playing XP games with Vista. Jan 20 08:24:36 Leopard is more expensive than Vista Jan 20 08:24:52 Leopard is hawt, though. Jan 20 08:25:18 yeah, but atleast u still can play those nice games, u cant with linux & osx Jan 20 08:25:34 And it doesn't make me want to play Russian roulette with a fully-loaded pistol Jan 20 08:25:41 and vista has directx 10 Jan 20 08:25:44 you can play the latest games. Jan 20 08:25:46 heh Jan 20 08:25:54 Latest != Greatest Jan 20 08:26:10 And we have plenty of games on the Linux side. Jan 20 08:26:27 yeah .. but still, no way can compare to windoze only games Jan 20 08:26:29 Try World of Padman, OpenArena, Nexiuz, Chromium... Jan 20 08:26:30 skrew direct x open GL 3.0 FTW Jan 20 08:26:34 nethack... Jan 20 08:26:54 justin111: Please... Please please PLEASE... use proper grammar and syntax. Jan 20 08:27:31 justin111: and why exactly is opengl3 better than directx10? Jan 20 08:27:31 Your half-assed perversion of the English language makes me want to eat myself alive. Jan 20 08:27:51 your not going to win rd i dont know why your trying to support vista in a linux user IRC Jan 20 08:27:56 for the most part Jan 20 08:28:09 yeah, i have the same question with raster Jan 20 08:28:12 No jihands, please. Jan 20 08:28:17 *jihad Jan 20 08:28:22 justin111, heh, i myself is a *nix user for 14++ years Jan 20 08:28:40 then why where you just supporting vista Jan 20 08:28:46 We don't need an off-topic OS jihad in the OpenMoko channel. Jan 20 08:28:50 justin111: He wasn't. Jan 20 08:28:52 all of my desktop/laptop (except company one) are using gentoo :) Jan 20 08:28:57 He was asking why you were dissing it. Jan 20 08:29:01 justin111, i didnt say i support vista .. hhe Jan 20 08:29:04 oh Jan 20 08:29:06 Why are you dissing Vista, justin111? Jan 20 08:29:14 but still u need valid reasons to say vista sux Jan 20 08:29:16 :) Jan 20 08:29:18 In proper grammar and syntax, please. Jan 20 08:29:28 justin111: the problem is - if you have view on something - be it vista, linux,. osx, openmoko, symbian, android or anything else - you should have those opinions backed up with experience/fact Jan 20 08:29:37 i think microsoft should have another year or 2 of debugging it before releasing it to the consumer Jan 20 08:30:11 if you dont have a damn good reason to believe X is better than Y - then don't go around blurting it - it just ends up with religious wars not sensible discussions based on real hard facts Jan 20 08:30:30 For exampple, I don't like Android because it's too corporate. Jan 20 08:30:33 justin111: same with every piece of open source Jan 20 08:30:36 most of it is very buggy Jan 20 08:30:45 Everything's buggy. Jan 20 08:30:46 "release early, release often" Jan 20 08:30:50 so waht? Jan 20 08:30:52 ms does the same Jan 20 08:30:55 thay'll patch it. Jan 20 08:31:35 my brother comes to me pissed off telling me to fix his computer but all i do is hand him a live linux distro then he gets pissed and walks away. my brothers experince with "the blue screen" or random crashes tells me that vista is not a good OS Jan 20 08:31:35 if u want to have a go at MS for its directx work - you should see the state of OGL drivers on linux Jan 20 08:31:50 they are about as stable as a pin palancing on its tip Jan 20 08:31:53 balancing Jan 20 08:32:21 justin111:run compiz-fusion and find out how stable your linux box is. Jan 20 08:32:31 (as basically thats what vista is doing) Jan 20 08:32:38 beryl worked pretty well on my old computer Jan 20 08:32:40 The reason people use Open Source consciously is for the freedom. Jan 20 08:32:57 summatusmentis: and run it day in and out for days on end :) Jan 20 08:33:03 Beryl worked, until I actually used it for longer than 15 minutes. Jan 20 08:33:03 t00na: bingo Jan 20 08:33:10 t00na: AHHAHAHAHA Jan 20 08:33:12 haha Jan 20 08:33:16 raster: I did, until I upgraded Jan 20 08:33:28 compiz isnt that great Jan 20 08:33:30 Compiz-Fusion worked, but all the little things attacked... Jan 20 08:33:36 does a desktop reallyj have to be pretty Jan 20 08:33:41 my vid card didn't support pixel shaders, but it worked, and I liked it! :-) Jan 20 08:33:42 Like, the hardly noticeable things. Jan 20 08:33:44 justin111: for me it does Jan 20 08:33:47 i stare at it all day Jan 20 08:33:56 I wouldn't mind them by themselves Jan 20 08:33:58 i want what i stare at to be pleasing to me Jan 20 08:34:10 raster: you are e17 right? Jan 20 08:34:15 but they swarm up and make me want to stick my fingers into a pencil sharpener. Jan 20 08:34:19 Which I almost did. Jan 20 08:34:23 ;D Jan 20 08:34:24 summatusmentis: i guess :) Jan 20 08:34:29 summatusmentis: if you put it that way Jan 20 08:34:45 raster: well, primary developer, whatever you want to call it Jan 20 08:34:49 hehe then get KDE4 very efficent desktop, it gets rid of plain icons and adds highly customizable "widgets" Jan 20 08:35:12 itws fairly stable Jan 20 08:35:13 too Jan 20 08:35:40 raster: you're the primary developer of E17??? Jan 20 08:36:36 t00na: maybe Jan 20 08:36:56 justin111: why? why would i go use kde4? Jan 20 08:36:59 yeah he is isnt that crazy he works for OM and finds time to do e17 Jan 20 08:37:19 raster: i dunno just saying Jan 20 08:37:25 i write my own desktop Jan 20 08:37:30 why would i go USE someone elses? Jan 20 08:37:36 if i want something - i'll add it myself Jan 20 08:37:41 i read an article about you... Jan 20 08:37:43 i think... Jan 20 08:37:44 and it will do EXACTLY what i want the WAY i want Jan 20 08:37:46 because i wrote it Jan 20 08:37:46 :) Jan 20 08:37:50 raster: sorry i forgot Jan 20 08:38:20 believe it or not most open source devs actually work on their stuff in their spare time Jan 20 08:38:39 handling multiple things is not unusual Jan 20 08:40:43 raster: wanna come fix e17 on the zaurus? :-P Jan 20 08:40:52 it should just work Jan 20 08:40:58 it "just works" on the neo Jan 20 08:41:03 it "just works" on the n800 Jan 20 08:41:03 apparently has fallen into disarray Jan 20 08:41:12 i wish i knew how to do stuff like that i want to learn openGL but all i have is my 2 C++ books my web dev book my C book and a few others all having nothing to do with openGL Jan 20 08:41:12 or something, I don't know, not considered supported Jan 20 08:41:35 dunno Jan 20 08:41:55 if its a matter of your distribution not maintaing it or building it - thats defintiely "not my problem" :) Jan 20 08:42:40 raster: no, I know, I didn't think it was. Mostly just kidding Jan 20 08:42:41 i cant go buoilding e for every linux distro/architecture around for people Jan 20 08:42:42 :) Jan 20 08:43:13 once I get OE back up, and am able to get my head into the code, I hope to get it to supported status Jan 20 08:43:27 e is in OE Jan 20 08:43:38 micky should have my .bb changes Jan 20 08:43:47 that clean up the build Jan 20 08:46:06 is neo's screen bigger then iphone Jan 20 08:46:29 raster: I know it is, angstrom apparently doesn't support it currently Jan 20 08:49:23 justin111: double the # of pixels - yes Jan 20 08:49:50 k just wondering Jan 20 08:50:18 what is the diffrence between AGPS and GPS Jan 20 08:51:22 agps is assisted, uses cell towers to figure out where you are Jan 20 08:51:24 iir Jan 20 08:51:25 iirc* Jan 20 08:53:11 no sattilitess at all Jan 20 08:53:50 I don't think so, but I'm not sure Jan 20 08:53:56 Hey, there's dead skin behind my ears. Jan 20 08:54:13 are you sure ? Jan 20 08:54:18 t00na: thats gross lol Jan 20 08:54:25 dexi: quite sure! Jan 20 08:54:29 damn Jan 20 08:54:32 thats bad Jan 20 08:54:42 I rub my finger back there, and there's all this flaky waxy stuff Jan 20 08:54:56 time for me to go to bed Jan 20 08:55:02 Bah Jan 20 08:55:02 well, just cut your ears off : ) Jan 20 08:55:04 goodnight all Jan 20 08:55:07 It's been time for me Jan 20 08:55:10 but whatever. Jan 20 08:55:17 I'm busy. Jan 20 08:55:24 g'night, summatusmentis Jan 20 08:55:53 * t00na is highlighting large chunks of code from a programming book Jan 20 08:57:49 * t00na take break Jan 20 08:57:56 * t00na go sleep Jan 20 08:57:57 g'night Jan 20 09:08:53 raster: what system arch are you running Jan 20 09:19:18 raster: do you run 64 or 32 bit system arch Jan 20 09:19:33 justin111: 32 Jan 20 09:19:57 raster: what kind of CPU do you have Jan 20 09:25:26 raster: what happened to all the orange/white ones Jan 20 09:28:40 raster: what are you shooting for on neo power management Jan 20 11:45:01 anyone know if the battery in the freerunner is the kind that can be charged whenever, or is it one of those that needs to be drained before charging? Jan 20 11:50:38 whenever Jan 20 11:50:47 as is the current one Jan 20 11:50:52 good good Jan 20 12:13:00 hoi Jan 20 12:15:03 hoi hoi Jan 20 12:15:26 ioh? Jan 20 12:15:40 hoi. Jan 20 12:17:31 aye Jan 20 12:17:41 eya? Jan 20 12:18:25 hai! Jan 20 12:18:39 no wai! Jan 20 12:39:56 freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r49 10/trunk/software/py-proto/ (COPYING GPL INSTALL setup.py): py-proto: add distutils magic Jan 20 12:47:42 hallo, has anybody convert the ProE-Files for the case of the gta* devices into other formats in particular in dxf? Jan 20 12:48:16 it would be nice to see the files, without to buy ProE ;) Jan 20 13:00:25 how can i make snapshots of my current rootfs? Jan 20 13:02:31 voi1: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973#Initial_backup Jan 20 13:03:06 thx Jan 20 13:03:27 Though I don't know anyone that'd want to backup the initial rootfs. Jan 20 13:03:42 i did :) Jan 20 13:03:54 gllin was there, and there was no other way to get gllin at this time Jan 20 13:04:02 (on a purchased phone with a blank rootfs) Jan 20 13:04:24 i dunno, i'd backup anyway Jan 20 13:13:48 opinion: stay with domain-specific taxonomy or try to unify similar concepts? Jan 20 13:13:52 actual example: Jan 20 13:14:20 call-handling deals with "Initiate/Release" Jan 20 13:14:29 pdp-handling deals with "Activate/Deactivate" Jan 20 13:14:43 should the high level API use initiate/release for both? Jan 20 13:15:37 You may multiply activate GSM - multi-way calling Jan 20 13:16:01 Initiate probably takes a prameter, like a phone number Jan 20 13:16:13 As may pdp Jan 20 13:16:17 not sure what Activate does exactly, but probably not the same type of parameter Jan 20 13:16:19 APN, ... Jan 20 13:16:32 well Jan 20 13:16:39 activate would take an id here Jan 20 13:16:44 a context idea Jan 20 13:16:45 (thinking of the roaming case) Jan 20 13:16:48 s/idea/id Jan 20 13:16:55 initiate would take a number, right Jan 20 13:16:58 so Jan 20 13:17:03 different params, different method names Jan 20 13:17:21 I don't see a compelling reason to unify them. Jan 20 13:17:26 right Jan 20 13:17:33 ya, i agree Jan 20 13:17:40 * mickeyl leaves it as it is Jan 20 13:17:44 Especially as you'll typically only have one PDP Jan 20 13:17:49 i'd stay with differing names too Jan 20 13:18:07 If youcould have hundreds, then moving it into a similar idea to phone-numbers might make sense. Jan 20 13:18:42 yep. convinced. Jan 20 13:29:12 r u all member of the 'core-team' ? Jan 20 13:29:25 *members Jan 20 13:32:17 No. Jan 20 13:32:43 Maybe a dozen at most are. Jan 20 13:32:51 And most of those are rarely here. Jan 20 13:33:01 oh Jan 20 13:33:18 If you have questions... Jan 20 13:33:53 noone at the moment Jan 20 13:36:02 freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r50 10/trunk/standards/otapi/ (4 files): Jan 20 13:36:02 freesmartphone.org: otapi: don't try to unify slightly different concepts Jan 20 13:36:02 freesmartphone.org: it's more confusing than having to remember different method names Jan 20 13:38:17 oh, there is one; in the suspend mode (which i can activate in the gui), the gsm is deactivated, right? Jan 20 13:38:28 sort-of Jan 20 13:38:49 It's not deactivated - and may wake the phone from suspend on ring Jan 20 13:38:53 but it won't then work Jan 20 13:39:00 (the modem) Jan 20 13:39:21 okay, so it's no hardware-issure and it will probably work in the future? Jan 20 13:39:36 Seemingly, yes Jan 20 13:39:49 k Jan 20 13:39:59 Software-wise, it's a bit annoying Jan 20 13:42:50 What is the policy on the bug summary when you have a patch? http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/bugzilla/bugwritinghelp.html doesn't say anything about it. I see that some people use (patch) at the end, others use [patch] or [PATCH] at the beginning. Jan 20 13:43:57 * SpeedEvil passes haakeyar a black eyepatch with the openmoko logo. Jan 20 13:45:19 * haakeyar doesn't understand Jan 20 13:45:40 Never mind. Jan 20 13:45:55 I have not had enough sleep, and occasionally may make silly comments. Jan 20 13:46:06 I don't think there is a standard. Jan 20 13:46:28 a black eyepatch would be very cool Jan 20 13:48:41 SpeedEvil: Ok, will probably use [PATCH], then. Jan 20 13:48:54 Thanks Jan 20 13:51:02 maito: I was just thinking of a black eyepatch, with the OM logo back-illuminated in orange. Jan 20 13:51:39 ~lart SpeedEvil for lame jokes Jan 20 13:51:39 * apt blasts SpeedEvil with a huge firehose then strangles SpeedEvil with it for lame jokes Jan 20 14:06:33 * haakeyar finally understands what SpeedEvil meant (after having a meal). He didn't know the word eyepatch and thought he meant a patch for a black eye. Jan 20 14:07:27 pirates wear them Jan 20 14:20:15 Can anyone confirm that the Dash GPS is not based on OM Jan 20 14:20:17 Ideally with a link Jan 20 14:21:49 not? i thought it is Jan 20 14:22:38 [[ Citation Needed ]] Jan 20 14:23:32 Im gonna make a sign with [[ Citation Needed ]] if I have to go to some political occasion Jan 20 14:23:36 http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/index.jsp?epi-content=NEWS_VIEW_POPUP_TYPE&newsId=20080102005237&ndmHsc=v2*A1196773200000*B1199385296000*DgroupByDate*J2*L1*N1000837*Zopenmoko&newsLang=en&beanID=202776713&viewID=news_view_popup Jan 20 14:24:02 mh Jan 20 14:24:30 maito: heh Jan 20 14:28:26 borg_: it looks like it might be on further research. Jan 20 14:28:32 I hate fuzzy press releases. Jan 20 14:29:00 right Jan 20 14:29:17 WTF can't OM at the time of introducing new devices running OM at the time just create a one page product brief on the wiki. Jan 20 14:29:39 As I understand it from things then. Jan 20 14:30:00 This has really very little at teh moment to do with openmoko as such. Jan 20 14:30:15 but there are no patches for the dash device at all in the repositories of oe and om Jan 20 14:30:25 It's probably the HXD8 (or whatever the devicename is) Jan 20 14:30:26 so they are doing it in secret? Jan 20 14:30:47 With a limited subset of the OM tree - maybe just the kernel and a few more bits. Jan 20 14:30:58 running Dashes application fullscreen. Jan 20 14:31:32 You won't ever see an openmoko brand anywhere on it, and it probably doesn't use any of the UI libraries Jan 20 14:31:56 yes Jan 20 14:32:02 i dont see a problem there Jan 20 14:32:27 the question is if they do release the code of there things Jan 20 14:32:57 if dash is just another totally closed embedded device that uses linux and you cant do anything with it Jan 20 14:33:31 where is the advantage? Jan 20 14:35:08 well, there wasn't supposed to be any advantage Jan 20 14:35:15 afaik dash is just a consumer device Jan 20 14:35:22 dash is not neo1973 Jan 20 14:35:36 but you still can do stuff with it much like with the TomTom Go Jan 20 14:36:31 how about nokia n810? Jan 20 14:36:50 i think it is confirmed officially that the HXD8 == Dash Express Jan 20 14:37:46 it uses a kernel made by OpenMoko Inc and runs on top of OpenMoko (officially) but the rest is up to Dash Inc (or whatever they are called) Jan 20 14:38:57 did somebody just break libgpephone_svn.bb Jan 20 14:47:38 Ok - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenMoko#Hardware Jan 20 14:47:44 Does that look sane ? Jan 20 14:48:54 yeah Jan 20 14:49:28 have the MLs been unusually quiet this weekend, or is my mail broken? Jan 20 14:50:02 The MLs have been broken a good half-dozen times in the past. Jan 20 14:50:32 Sometimes for days Jan 20 14:50:36 check the archives on the wiki Jan 20 14:50:49 SpeedEvil: ugh, i thought it was announced much earlier? Jan 20 14:50:50 at the top of the main page Jan 20 14:51:19 i saw a post on jserv--'s blog about the Dash somewehre in November, i think Jan 20 14:51:25 balrog-kun: I was editing someone elses post Jan 20 14:51:42 i didn't understand what the post said but there were links to the dash pages and a note about it running on openmoko :) Jan 20 14:51:46 I initially deleted it as I thought it was wrong based on images from dashes website, so deleted Jan 20 14:51:58 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Solar_power ?? Jan 20 14:52:09 is that sane ? ^.^ Jan 20 14:52:10 Mononoke: ?????? Jan 20 14:52:19 Mononoke: many of the case ideas are not sane. Jan 20 14:52:45 SpeedEvil: also, the FAQ has a section on devices that can run OpenMoko, there are more than just Neo1973 and FreeRunner Jan 20 14:53:03 also, NetBSD runs on Neo1973 Jan 20 14:53:10 SpeedEvil: are there any case ideas that are sane? Jan 20 14:53:20 Hm... How do I actually create a ticket with a patch in bugzilla? Should it be uploaded after I've created the ticket? Jan 20 14:53:22 'morning all (though it's almost 13:00 already) Jan 20 14:53:27 I've only used trac before, and there you can select that you have files to attach to the ticket. Jan 20 14:53:34 However I think it's reasonable to mention core hardware first. - that developed by FIC and actually having patches in SVN Jan 20 14:53:47 haakeyar: you upload after creating Jan 20 14:53:56 haakeyar: yes, iirc you first create a bug and then atach the patches Jan 20 14:54:04 attach Jan 20 14:54:27 Ok, thanks Jan 20 14:55:03 * cesarb does a "git reset --hard HEAD^" to throw away the stupid patch he did yesterday and start from a new angle Jan 20 14:55:34 found out that there was a initialization order problem and cpufreq was "forgetting" the timer notifier, which is why the timer wasn't being changed to match Jan 20 14:56:00 but the way I tried to fix yesterday was utterly wrong (it tried to kzalloc before enough was set up... or something like that) Jan 20 14:56:48 ugh, half of the See Also links on the WP OpenMooko page have nothing to do with OpenMoko Jan 20 14:57:00 * * OM Bug 1191 has been created by haakeyar-mailinglists(AT)bluezone.no Jan 20 14:57:01 * * oko-terminal2: Tab or window is not closed when hitting EOF or exit Jan 20 14:57:02 balrog-kun: {{sofixit}} Jan 20 14:57:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1191 Jan 20 14:57:13 cesarb: okies :) Jan 20 14:58:20 mh, i think the german openmoko article in wikipedia is slightly better than the english one, perhaps someone can translate some parts? Jan 20 15:02:30 borg_: there are more German openmoko staff than English Jan 20 15:18:52 weird, the kernel reads the time/date off the PCF50606 RTC and then sets the system date to exactly this date + one month Jan 20 15:19:32 fun Jan 20 15:20:58 maybe it's assuming months are 1-based instead of 0-based? Jan 20 15:23:00 yes, very likely, but it worked ok with earlier kernels Jan 20 15:25:51 it's been like that for a while Jan 20 15:28:12 also there's an Oops in usb_hcd_platform_shutdown() during shutdown Jan 20 15:29:26 balrog-kun: welcome to the world of pre-release software. Jan 20 15:58:10 are you from germany, borg_ ? Jan 20 16:08:45 yo Jan 20 16:54:59 does anyone know a working navigation-program for OM? Jan 20 16:57:06 voi1: yes i am from germany Jan 20 16:57:09 voi1: navit works Jan 20 16:57:21 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Navit Jan 20 16:57:47 but it is not easy to set it up Jan 20 16:57:49 oh, thx, and you got maps for every location? Jan 20 16:58:10 you can use openstreetmap Jan 20 16:58:14 * SpeedEvil looks up europa. Jan 20 16:58:17 but that is not complete of course Jan 20 16:58:30 With openstreetmap, and a GPS, you have the most complete map possible. Jan 20 16:58:43 how complete is most complete? Jan 20 16:58:44 you can use navit with google maps Jan 20 16:58:45 Of course - it may take you some time to fill it in. Jan 20 16:58:53 there are download scripts for that somewhere in the internet Jan 20 16:59:04 but it is not known if this is legal ;) Jan 20 16:59:11 cool Jan 20 16:59:29 hm.. i tried Pyroute, but it didn't work Jan 20 16:59:42 google definetly does not like it when people download there whole maps, but it is possible Jan 20 16:59:53 borg_: it clearly violates the expressed terms of service from google. Jan 20 17:00:14 borg_: if this is a binding contract, and is in fact legal will vary by locality. Jan 20 17:00:27 But it's probably generally a violation of copyright. Jan 20 17:00:34 I'm to understand that I would need a gps device in order to test the gps via qemu-1973? Jan 20 17:00:41 summatusmentis: no Jan 20 17:00:52 summatusmentis: you can use gpsd to fake GPS Jan 20 17:01:03 Is wiki enough to set up a working navit-environment? Jan 20 17:01:04 Or replay a real logfile Jan 20 17:01:04 voi1: so if you use the maps from google, it is probably not a good idea to make them available via download on your homepage Jan 20 17:01:43 ya Jan 20 17:03:02 voi1: but you will need a bigger sd card to use big maps Jan 20 17:03:41 i already thought about buying a bigger sd card Jan 20 17:03:43 i think germany from openstreetmap is something like 2gb Jan 20 17:03:43 * mjr pats his 8 gig microsd Jan 20 17:03:57 my country is smaller :> Jan 20 17:03:58 :D Jan 20 17:03:59 borg_: in crappy XML Jan 20 17:04:06 right Jan 20 17:04:09 why crappy? Jan 20 17:04:23 yeah, the data seemed to get a whole lot smaller when converting to navit's binary format Jan 20 17:04:23 but thats all what navit can read, imo Jan 20 17:04:26 atm Jan 20 17:04:29 vio: because it's some 30-40 times bigger than a sane format. Jan 20 17:04:56 k Jan 20 17:05:08 borg_, see above, that's why you convert it for the phone Jan 20 17:05:16 voi1: what didn't work about pyroute? Jan 20 17:05:21 SpeedEvil: XML is supposed to be 30-40 times bigger than a sane format, and then gain it all back when gzipped Jan 20 17:05:41 SpeedEvil: it's the reason xml tags are almost all lowercase (it tends to compress slightly better) Jan 20 17:05:51 OJW: i think it has to do with downloading the map. Jan 20 17:05:58 well at least it compresses better if they're all consistent Jan 20 17:06:03 mjr: ah, you mean this osm2navit thing? Jan 20 17:06:06 i already used it :) Jan 20 17:06:07 yeah Jan 20 17:06:17 bulk downloading tiles on pyroute doesn't work yet Jan 20 17:06:25 now i am not sure if the binary data is 2 gig or the xml data Jan 20 17:06:26 mhmhmhmh Jan 20 17:06:37 oh, i didn't know Jan 20 17:07:46 the gui is a bit misleading - gui for bulk downloads is complete, but the functionality isn't Jan 20 17:07:57 borg_: do you have tutorials/links/something like this to download whole maps from google? Jan 20 17:08:41 borg_: you can pack most/all of the planet into 2G with the appropriate binary format Jan 20 17:08:42 i didn't see anything of the gui yet. Jan 20 17:10:48 ? it doesn't run? Jan 20 17:11:53 ojw: it tried to download some stuff in the initialize-phrase, but it got no data; so it crashes. Jan 20 17:12:28 ok Jan 20 17:12:31 ojw: i don't know the exact reasen. my try was a few weeks ago. Jan 20 17:12:35 with no net connection? Jan 20 17:12:50 ojw: it had. Jan 20 17:19:01 Just found this project and I have question about HW: If I now order currectly available hw, will future "end user" apps be supported to this device (Planning to pass the old hw later to my wife and get the new one) or is the old hw going to be garbage later? Jan 20 17:19:21 that is 01 vs 02 hw Jan 20 17:19:36 lol Jan 20 17:19:51 does the old hardware have long enough battery life for use in that application? Jan 20 17:20:09 * mjr is planning to pass 01 to wife also provided the power management becomes workable Jan 20 17:20:29 ojw, I think it's a consensus still that it can be Jan 20 17:20:50 that would be no then Jan 20 17:21:15 aaanyway, at least mickey has said things along the lines of gta01 being supported Jan 20 17:21:22 blckdove: other than the bluetooth wakeup issue and the 850 issue, there is nothing (other than it being slower) preventing 01 from being quite usable Jan 20 17:21:55 suitable for normal phone usage that would be for her Jan 20 17:22:37 if the suspend-issue would work ... Jan 20 17:24:55 cesarb: can you refer bugzilla id:s on the issues you just mentioned? Jan 20 17:25:00 * * OM Bug 1192 has been created by sean_chiang(AT)openmoko.com Jan 20 17:25:02 * * unknown reason cause TI GSM modem always return Jan 20 17:25:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1192 Jan 20 17:25:54 yeah suspend would be necessary but afaik that's still considered a software issue and thus fixable Jan 20 17:27:45 blckdove: not finding them on bugzilla right now (they were mostly discussed on IRC and MLs) Jan 20 17:27:58 blckdove: ah, there's also bug#666 (the 3G SIM firmware issue) Jan 20 17:34:23 hmmm.. maybe it is better to wait for the 02 hw Jan 20 17:34:36 I hate to wait tho =D Jan 20 17:35:24 additionally 01 has no wifi. Jan 20 17:37:42 how long is the wait now? still 2 months? Jan 20 17:38:05 no matter.. because Im gonna get the 02 anyway.. I am just wondering what to do with 01 hw after that =D Jan 20 17:38:32 yeah, me too, and I still have faith the 01 will become a usable phone for the wife Jan 20 17:38:50 if not, well, 02's all around and think up some use for a tiny arm linux box Jan 20 17:40:17 already have n770 for that ;) Jan 20 17:41:06 2 months is long time to wait .. heh Jan 20 17:44:24 http://www.refnum.com/osm/gmaps.html Jan 20 17:47:54 blckdove: 2 months - seems a little optimistic IMO. Jan 20 18:00:44 SpeedEvil: from a long history of optimists being proved wrong in engineering companies? Jan 20 18:04:44 OJW: that - and yesterdays confirmation that they are still working on hardware with known bugs, and haven't yet committed to a new version. Jan 20 18:05:23 OJW: A couple of months is a tight timeline from now if the new version was authorised today Jan 20 18:29:43 http://www.mgmaps.com/cache/MapTileCacher.perl Jan 20 19:34:54 hi all Jan 20 19:37:24 has anyone done something with the schematics yet? Jan 20 19:38:43 What schematics? Jan 20 19:38:54 Question: I while like to write sms menager. it while by correct if I while use a libgsmd-tool to get data from network to wrote a message menager? Jan 20 19:39:19 SpeedEvil: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_case_schematics Jan 20 19:39:34 a .zip with stuff Jan 20 19:39:36 official ones? Jan 20 19:39:38 3d model? Jan 20 19:39:41 nice Jan 20 19:39:46 * SpeedEvil has no mill. Jan 20 19:40:27 hello all Jan 20 19:40:48 hi lloyd_fedora Jan 20 19:41:20 hey bassin Jan 20 19:42:11 does anyone know when the Neo Freerunner will be released ?? Jan 20 19:42:41 which one is that? Jan 20 19:42:49 lloyd_fedora: not really. Jan 20 19:42:52 02 Jan 20 19:42:56 lloyd_fedora: there are some guesses. Jan 20 19:43:10 lloyd_fedora: March is about the absolute earliest it might be Jan 20 19:43:28 march .. thats not bad i can wait Jan 20 19:43:42 I'd not be surprised at august. Jan 20 19:43:45 is freerunner the one promised in oct 07? Jan 20 19:43:57 yes Jan 20 19:44:12 yeah.. Jan 20 19:44:25 oh ok cool :) Jan 20 19:44:26 oct !! thats a long wait Jan 20 19:44:32 Well - it wasn't called that then Jan 20 19:45:05 i was saving up for it but it was never released and i never saw any information from it (official information) Jan 20 19:47:06 ive got my cash in hand .. for almost a year now !!! n im still gonna wait !! Jan 20 19:48:01 lloyd_fedora: yeah might as well wait to get the latest greatest Jan 20 19:48:10 have the specs changed? Jan 20 19:48:21 yes, it's not quad band Jan 20 19:48:34 bassin .. yeah i think .. 500 mhz .. WiFi Jan 20 19:48:44 more mem Jan 20 19:48:48 400 Jan 20 19:48:49 wow 500mhz is a good upgrade Jan 20 19:48:53 500 is overclocking Jan 20 19:49:07 and may not work Jan 20 19:49:16 its a 400MHz with armv6 sets? Jan 20 19:49:22 i think the cpu is capable of 500 mhz, but the rest of the board is designed for 400mhz Jan 20 19:49:27 Nope. Jan 20 19:49:36 Datasheet says 400 is limit Jan 20 19:49:42 arm9? arm11? Jan 20 19:49:46 really? Jan 20 19:49:57 then someone wrote fud in the mailing list :) Jan 20 19:49:58 check the link Jan 20 19:50:08 hmh, on the lists I got the impression that the 400 part got changed for a 500-capable part because of availability Jan 20 19:50:15 right Jan 20 19:50:16 exactly Jan 20 19:50:22 (but yes, the rest of the board being limited to 400) Jan 20 19:50:22 same here, mjr Jan 20 19:50:23 yeah its 500 Jan 20 19:50:39 mjr: maybe Jan 20 19:50:48 doesn't really matter though Jan 20 19:50:59 400 for the package deal pretty clearly Jan 20 19:51:34 the specs r sweet .. more importantly its open Jan 20 19:51:52 lloyd_fedora: not really in all areas. Jan 20 19:52:18 lloyd_fedora: the video memory bus sucks, and there is no 3D accel that was hoped for Jan 20 19:52:38 in the freerunner? Jan 20 19:53:17 or in 1973? Jan 20 19:53:17 Speed : yeah i know some stuff is closed ... but most of it is open .. n me think the freerunner has 3D Jan 20 19:54:00 the glamo chip is capable of 3d, but there are no drivers for it Jan 20 19:54:07 and there wont be any in the next month Jan 20 19:54:29 borg_ : so any guesses on the release date ? Jan 20 19:54:39 probably never Jan 20 19:54:45 borg_: there are no 3D drivers planned Jan 20 19:54:57 i know Jan 20 19:55:28 but the 2d acceleration is more important anyway Jan 20 19:55:51 like video? Jan 20 19:55:56 I have some doubts as to if there is a point. Jan 20 19:55:59 btw Jan 20 19:56:09 I remember on this channel someone asked if a terminal was needed Jan 20 19:56:26 well, yesterday I got the chance to test nokia n810, the internet tablet that runs linux Jan 20 19:56:26 (of the video accel chip - it's connected on a rather slow bus) Jan 20 19:56:50 you can open a terminal on n810, its a busybox and doesn't have much Jan 20 19:57:10 and I think for root you need to activate some dev mode or something Jan 20 19:57:23 i dont really care for the 3d .. just want the tri band .. wifi .. n gps ... ill use it a terminal to dial if i can get myhands on a freerunner !!! Jan 20 19:57:28 what do one open .asm & .prt in? Jan 20 19:57:40 zash_: Pro/E Jan 20 19:57:58 SpeedEvil> borg_: there are no 3D drivers planned Jan 20 19:58:00 no 3d drivers? Jan 20 19:58:05 why? Jan 20 19:58:05 Elrond: no Jan 20 19:58:08 el_: Jan 20 19:58:22 Too much work Jan 20 19:58:25 El_Salvador: if someone whants to make them, nobody will stop him Jan 20 19:58:30 but it is a hell of a work Jan 20 19:58:33 borg_: yes they will Jan 20 19:58:40 borg_: no docs Jan 20 19:58:49 borg_: how? Jan 20 19:58:52 no docs Jan 20 19:59:01 isn't it nda? Jan 20 19:59:07 yes Jan 20 20:00:21 i think 3d drivers are planned, just not before the Feb release Jan 20 20:00:34 Hm, I haven't got my Neo right here to test, but can anyone answer this; will the phone run fine without a battery connected to USB? Jan 20 20:00:46 no Jan 20 20:00:59 gta02 does, gta01 doesn't Jan 20 20:01:07 Is there any hack to fix it? Jan 20 20:01:09 balrog-kun: i hope Jan 20 20:01:36 I assume the battery will degrade if I leave the phone on 24/7 connected to USB, or? Jan 20 20:01:44 nope Jan 20 20:01:53 Is that for me, SpeedEvil? :-) Jan 20 20:01:55 Well - yes. Jan 20 20:02:15 For best life, discharge it to 40% or so and put it in the fridge Jan 20 20:02:22 why are the gta 02 specs not the same as the freerunner doesnt FIC make both of em ?? Jan 20 20:02:37 lloyd_fedora: htey are Jan 20 20:02:43 Freerunner = GTA02 Jan 20 20:02:51 SpeedEvil: Huh? o.0 Jan 20 20:03:12 jorgenpt: this will make the battery last longest. Jan 20 20:03:26 jorgenpt: of course - ... Jan 20 20:03:40 Running qtopia last night my phone "rested" into complete discharge even though it stayed connected to USB. It really sucked. Jan 20 20:03:48 kdean : the specs r not the same .. im on the site Jan 20 20:03:59 Aren't there any docs on the suspend-issue, btw? Definitive documentation on what the symptoms are, and possible diagnoses? Jan 20 20:04:03 kdean06: they are. GTA02 specs are not quite accurate Jan 20 20:04:18 orospakr: the UART isn't properly setup as it comes back IIRC Jan 20 20:04:25 jor: Jan 20 20:04:44 Because I've heard that it doesn't wake properly when you manually wake, that it doesn't wake when a call comes in, that it drains about 2x the current it should in suspend and that the GSM modem doesn't work when it wakes from suspend. Jan 20 20:04:59 jorgenpt: I suspect that once someone creates "definitive" documentation, the fix for the problem is but a minor programming exercise. Jan 20 20:05:06 It wakes ewhen a call comes in. Jan 20 20:05:26 the problem is probably on the serial port side, not the GSM Jan 20 20:08:03 jorgenpt: feel free to join #openmoko-no Jan 20 20:08:35 * jorgenpt looks at his list of 25 joined channels and sighs Jan 20 20:09:47 Vegar: that's a bit negative - join #openmoko-yes! Jan 20 20:10:28 mwester: Do you know if FIC is working on the problem - or is it entirely up to the community? Jan 20 20:10:34 no one there :( Jan 20 20:10:50 or/: cesarb is working on clock speed adjust Jan 20 20:10:59 jorgenpt: it's a closely related issue. Jan 20 20:11:27 clock speed of the SoC? Jan 20 20:11:29 yes Jan 20 20:11:30 no #openmoko-se Jan 20 20:11:55 SpeedEvil: Oh, okay. Timing issues with the serial port? Jan 20 20:12:10 jorgenpt: seems so Jan 20 20:12:17 Mkay. Jan 20 20:15:21 they still haven't fixed that? Jan 20 20:19:49 later all Jan 20 21:16:47 http://tmp.bluntobject.org/img/mac_vs_pc.jpg Jan 20 21:16:59 ops wrong channel sorry Jan 20 21:22:51 need help to get openmoko running on the sd of my a780, getting kernel panic, but no idea whhy Jan 20 21:23:50 what's the last line? Jan 20 21:24:53 unknown block (0,0) the sd is formated with 2p ext2 Jan 20 21:25:24 unknown block device? Jan 20 21:25:28 or unknown block? Jan 20 21:25:35 device Jan 20 21:26:38 That probably means you don't have appropriate drives for the SD Jan 20 21:26:45 drivers. Jan 20 21:28:05 sandisk shut be known not? or should I add modules? Jan 20 21:29:41 actually: the error is: kernel panic -not syncing VFS unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0) Jan 20 21:31:40 yes - that typically means that you have not got a configured boot device Jan 20 21:32:00 You need to A) build all of your modules that you need into the kernel. Jan 20 21:32:34 B) put your setup code in an initrd, which gets loaded during the boot process. This then loads modules and sets things up. Jan 20 21:34:20 thanks, I'll look at these two variants... Jan 20 21:40:14 but why is it not possible to pass ther argument of root-device like he kernel mounts the rootfs (defined at compile time or by root= parameter on kernel command line); Jan 20 21:40:42 and which is the correct dev for mmc Jan 20 21:41:11 yes, it is possible Jan 20 21:42:02 mmcblk1p0 or similar is likely the device name Jan 20 21:42:19 I just try, thanks Jan 20 21:42:37 obviously your kernel needs to have the mmc driver in it Jan 20 21:43:08 Other than the "this block gets unstable below 20MHz", I failed to find any reason why the USB device block would get unstable after a frequency transition Jan 20 21:43:20 Perhaps it gets confused by the few moments of 0MHz clock Jan 20 21:44:02 can you suspend it for this moment like you did with other blocks? Jan 20 21:44:15 I just got the stuff from the a780 downloads Jan 20 21:45:48 balrog-kun: it's a bit harder with USB, since it's the host which control these things. Any attempt at quiescing it would probably end up causing a disconnect/reconnect cycle visible to the host, which would be annoying. Jan 20 21:46:17 * cesarb hasn't even tested to see if the serial quiescing code works yet Jan 20 21:47:19 cesarb: It's a fractional synth - changing either n or m - but not both may do other things. Jan 20 21:47:42 SpeedEvil: ? Jan 20 21:48:31 cesarb: It's a fractional n synth - changing either n or m - but not both may do other things. Jan 20 21:49:01 Right - at the end of it - you have a VCO - this generates a frequency from a voltage Jan 20 21:49:39 and this goes from 20-350Mhz or so. Jan 20 21:50:30 SpeedEvil: if it's the MPLL changing code, it sets all the parameters at once (in a single register write) Jan 20 21:50:53 cesarb: I mean - pick a frequency to change only one parameter of the divisor Jan 20 21:50:59 the PLL may lock faster Jan 20 21:51:21 SpeedEvil: it won't, the hardware generates a fixed delay (according to the spec) Jan 20 21:51:39 SpeedEvil: it doesn't actually wait for it to lock... it just waits a fixed time Jan 20 21:51:40 Or rather - the PLL may lock with fewer frequency transients Jan 20 21:52:18 SpeedEvil: there's a graph in the spec showing the output goes to 0MHz during the lock time, so there's also only a single 0Hz transient Jan 20 21:57:08 I wonder if it's really unstable at 12MHz Jan 20 21:57:16 PCLK Jan 20 21:59:11 SpeedEvil: don't know, I didn't test the real hardware so far down (I only went as far as half the top speed so far) Jan 20 22:02:02 I mean - if the clock is turned off from the output of the PLL - presumably to avoid transients - can you connect it to 12Mhz in - instead. Jan 20 22:02:21 So keeping PCLK at 12Mhz not 0. Which admittedly isn't in spec, but... Jan 20 22:03:50 I see where you are trying to get at... If I switch to SLOW, there won't be a PLL transient, it would jump cleanly to 12MHz Jan 20 22:04:13 yes Jan 20 22:04:18 So, do we move MokoMakefile to bitbake 1.8.10 now? Jan 20 22:04:30 It's just a pity that 12Mhz is out of spec for the USB block Jan 20 22:04:34 The trouble is that, since I don't have all drivers ready, I'm wary of going so far down... In particular, the framebuffer might not like it that much Jan 20 22:04:47 It won't. Jan 20 22:04:53 IIRC you can do QVGA in spec Jan 20 22:05:09 or VGA@8 bit Jan 20 22:05:15 but I diddn't look very hard at it Jan 20 22:05:45 SpeedEvil: I'd guess that either 12MHz is too low for the speed of USB transfers, or that the FSM on the USB block gets confused if things go too fast on one side compared to the other Jan 20 22:05:46 rwhitby: not until someone tests to see if it still requires that bizzare bzr python module that isn't available for some of the really weird and unusual distros -- like Fedora ;) Jan 20 22:06:22 cesarb: the USB clock stuff is driven by the USB PLL though, which has a seperate feed to the 12Mhz clock Jan 20 22:06:56 SpeedEvil: but at least part of the block is driven by the main clock (the part which interfaces with the CPU and the rest of the stuff) Jan 20 22:07:00 cesarb: I _think_ that the lack of a proper clock might only be important (on the PCLK side) if you are takking to it Jan 20 22:07:17 that is however conjecture. Jan 20 22:07:29 SpeedEvil: might be that too, I was talking to it via USB when I tested (I was using ssh!) Jan 20 22:08:15 It'd be so nice if you could get a response from samsung on this. Jan 20 22:12:16 SpeedEvil: if the OM people get interested on the code I'm doing, and think it's important, they might... after all the hundreds of other things they already have to check :P Jan 20 22:12:23 SpeedEvil: (i.e. not much of a chance) Jan 20 22:13:30 * cesarb downloads a kernel with his most recent bugfixes... with this the timer should work better Jan 20 22:15:00 the kernel boots so fast, and then the userspace takes its sweet time to come up... Jan 20 22:17:38 * CM has finally started a new build Jan 20 22:18:31 there's always the round way to get your code into OM through mainline Jan 20 22:19:00 * mickeyl sips a cup of fresh brewed coffee Jan 20 22:19:05 mmh Jan 20 22:19:47 nice Jan 20 22:19:56 balrog-kun: no chance, it takes too much (I should know - I have code on mainline) Jan 20 22:20:07 s/too much/too much time/ Jan 20 22:20:07 cesarb meant: balrog-kun: no chance, it takes too much time (I should know - I have code on mainline) Jan 20 22:20:43 mickeyl: Planning to be up all night? Jan 20 22:20:48 ;) Jan 20 22:20:50 GREAT, this code works! now the timing doesn't get off when changing the cpu frequency Jan 20 22:20:59 it really depends, sometimes they jump on your code very quickly Jan 20 22:21:17 cesarb: Cool, nice work :) Jan 20 22:21:17 CM: nah, that's decaf of course. Jan 20 22:21:20 yo stefan Jan 20 22:21:32 rwhitby: (mokomakefile), yes, please update to 1.8.10 Jan 20 22:21:34 CM: that's only the first step Jan 20 22:21:52 Well, any progress is good progress Jan 20 22:21:55 hi mickeyl Jan 20 22:21:56 cesarb: pretty cool. can't wait to see actual lifetime improvements Jan 20 22:21:57 CM: look at the list at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:CesarB/cpufreq , half of the drivers are still missing their notifiers Jan 20 22:21:58 * CM has never tried decaf Jan 20 22:22:10 hmm, does bitbake 1.8.10 contains all the stuff we need for AUTOREV or still a patch needed? Jan 20 22:22:21 cesarb: I'll read now :) Jan 20 22:22:23 SpeedEvil: after lowering the frequency to 135000, I plugged the USB, and it works Jan 20 22:22:39 SpeedEvil: it looks like it only gets confused when you tick it off in the middle of an operation Jan 20 22:22:46 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r176 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Updated to bitbake 1.8.10 Jan 20 22:22:48 mickeyl: done Jan 20 22:22:58 rwhitby: thanks Jan 20 22:23:14 stefan_schmidt: it should contain everything needed. could you run a test? Jan 20 22:23:27 mickeyl: Not before tomorrow evening Jan 20 22:23:41 sounds good Jan 20 22:23:42 mickeyl: But I'll poke Shoragan to update the debian package Jan 20 22:23:47 ah right Jan 20 22:24:18 OT: anyone know whether channel forwarders are user installable on #freenet? Jan 20 22:24:35 s/#freenet//freenode Jan 20 22:25:23 SpeedEvil: you were right that the LCM does run "fine" in a wide range of frequencies... just tried 101250 for an EVEN WORSE flicker Jan 20 22:25:50 * cesarb would really like if 2.6.24 had worked, since it has the framebuffer notifier to avoid the flicker Jan 20 22:27:11 wow, the flicker at 12000 is... psychadelic (sp?) Jan 20 22:27:18 and it's SLOW Jan 20 22:27:28 (not as in SLOW mode, slow as in not fast) Jan 20 22:27:42 cesarb: perhaps we can fix that by altering timings? Jan 20 22:27:45 then again Jan 20 22:27:52 we probably really don't need the LCM @ 12MHz Jan 20 22:28:28 mickeyl: the code I have to change the timings for the framebuffer is for 2.6.24.x Jan 20 22:28:37 excellent. Jan 20 22:28:42 mickeyl: the framebuffer driver for 2.6.22.5 is too different, I ommited that part Jan 20 22:28:53 i hope that gta01 switches to .24 at some point of time Jan 20 22:28:57 mickeyl: which means I have to suffer a very strange color-shifting flicker Jan 20 22:29:01 will continue pestering the system guys Jan 20 22:29:29 and this thing is too SLOW! I cannot find the lines I want in the dmesg scrollback due to the irritant adc log spam Jan 20 22:30:19 What web browsers are available for the Neo? Jan 20 22:31:08 openmoko-browser. :) Jan 20 22:31:09 all linux web brosers basically Jan 20 22:31:18 Well, which ones have been ported / tested? :-) Jan 20 22:31:29 I'm sure you could compile Epiphany or whatever to run on it, but it probably wouldn't be the best option. Jan 20 22:31:38 And which ones do you recommend =) Jan 20 22:31:39 phew, after s l o w l y typing the correct command, managed to get back to flickerless full-speed 266000 Jan 20 22:31:47 there's even an Opera build for ARM afaik Jan 20 22:33:28 openmoko-browser is a no-frills brower. :P jorgenpt -> http://www.monochromementality.com/index.php/photos/album/13/photo/83.html Jan 20 22:39:54 ok, did a writeup on this latest test at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:CesarB/cpufreq Jan 20 22:43:34 cool stuff Jan 20 22:44:04 cesarb: i guess most of that stuff will work on the s3c2442 as well? Jan 20 22:44:19 hi could I bug someone for a little help Jan 20 22:44:30 my neo just arrived Jan 20 22:44:48 and I put the latest dev image listed in the openmoko flasher Jan 20 22:44:54 but it doesnt have the UI i expected? Jan 20 22:45:05 also it wont recognise my virgin sim card Jan 20 22:45:09 any suggestions? Jan 20 22:45:18 mickeyl: the notifiers should work; from what I've seen so far, about half the hardware is common (things like serial/timer are; framebuffer and others aren't) Jan 20 22:46:12 mickeyl: the cpufreq driver (the core part which actually changes the frequencies) will not work since it's hardcoded for the S3C2410A (yes, A, not even the one without the A); adding a table of frequencies for the different CPU and changing the code to use it should be enough Jan 20 22:46:28 cesarb: from userspace, you can tweak it using setfb Jan 20 22:47:01 mickeyl: (the table of frequencies was mostly copied from the table of possible PLL settings on the datasheet, which is why it's so specific) Jan 20 22:47:09 right Jan 20 22:49:07 I have doubts if it means other than 'we tested these values'. Jan 20 22:50:28 mickeyl: I would expect the porting work to be quite small after the gta01 cpufreq work is complete (it would mostly be writing the notifiers for the new gta02 drivers and adding a new frequency table); however, the code is only half-finished, and of that only half has been tested (VERY lightly tested) Jan 20 22:51:28 SpeedEvil: or more like 'we tested these values and they worked reliably; we might have tested others which didn't work so well, but we aren't telling' Jan 20 22:51:31 what would happen if wrong frequensies were used? Jan 20 22:51:52 maito: nasal demons Jan 20 22:51:54 maito: worst case is instability Jan 20 22:52:01 It's not going to catch fire Jan 20 22:52:21 maito: (http://catb.org/jargon/html/N/nasal-demons.html for the reference) Jan 20 22:52:22 hehe, of course not. is it going to limit its life? Jan 20 22:52:49 maito: no, unless the instability does (for instance by making you do something very wrong) Jan 20 22:53:06 'You must kiiiiiilll!' Jan 20 22:53:58 cesarb: Ive encountered such :p Jan 20 22:54:21 basically just the cpu to count wrong Jan 21 01:32:38 openmoko: 03werner * r3887 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/ (gta02-core.patch smedia-glamo.patch): (log message trimmed) Jan 21 01:32:38 openmoko: Applied glamo-platform-mmc.patch: Jan 21 01:32:38 openmoko: - remove unimplemented S3C MMC voltage scaling API... not used on GTA-01 or -02 Jan 21 01:32:38 openmoko: - add two platform APIs for Glamo MMC, to set power and check if IRQ used Jan 21 01:32:38 openmoko: - GTA-specific stuff should now all be in GTA machine specific files Jan 21 01:32:42 openmoko: - UGLY_COUNTERPRODUCTIVE_MAINTAINER_COMMENTS_BE_GONE Jan 21 01:32:44 openmoko: Signed-off-by: Andy Green Jan 21 01:43:38 =] UGLY_COUNTERPRODUCTIVE_MAINTAINER_COMMENTS_BE_GONE Jan 21 01:58:20 what's the latest qtopia image i could test? Jan 21 02:03:47 openmoko: 03werner * r3888 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/smedia-glamo.patch: Jan 21 02:03:47 openmoko: Glamo is picky about when a register may be accessed, so we have to spin for a Jan 21 02:03:47 openmoko: few cycles. (Note: this hasn't been tested yet. May need tuning.) Jan 21 02:03:47 openmoko: smedia-glamo.patch: Jan 21 02:03:47 openmoko: - drivers/mfd/glamo/glamo-core.h (glamo_reg_access_delay): delay function for Jan 21 02:03:50 openmoko: register access Jan 21 02:03:52 openmoko: - drivers/mfd/glamo/glamo-fb.c (reg_read, reg_write): added access delay Jan 21 02:18:32 openmoko: 03werner * r3889 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/ (glamo-mmc.patch series smedia-glamo.patch): (log message trimmed) Jan 21 02:18:32 openmoko: This patch adds a new MMC/SD MCI driver for the Glamo MMC/SD interface. Jan 21 02:18:32 openmoko: It supports Jan 21 02:18:32 openmoko: - interrupt-based operation where possible Jan 21 02:18:32 openmoko: - 1-bit and 4-bit mode Jan 21 02:18:34 openmoko: - clock rate up to 16MHz -- 25MHz is not reliable and gives Jan 21 02:18:38 openmoko: IO errors Jan 21 02:23:26 openmoko: 03werner * r3890 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/config/defconfig-2.6.24-rc7: Jan 21 02:23:26 openmoko: config/defconfig-2.6.24-rc7: Jan 21 02:23:26 openmoko: - added CONFIG_MFD_GLAMO_MCI Jan 21 02:45:42 openmoko: 03werner * r3891 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/scripts/build: Update to GIT_HEAD f188896c2f1594fe749fdb99bbc8c54023cfab3a, SVN_REV 3890. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jan 21 03:00:03 2008