**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 24 02:59:57 2008
Jan 24 03:11:58 * balrog-kun had the opposite problem once
Jan 24 03:12:23 <raster> sparq: ?ll be doing the reverse
Jan 24 03:12:24 <raster> :)
Jan 24 03:26:21 <roh> hm.. wasnt it backwards for some stuff? means getting it in taiwan was comlicated
Jan 24 03:26:25 <roh> +p
Jan 24 03:26:29 <roh> hi there btw ;)
Jan 24 03:34:21 <sparq> D'oh!
Jan 24 03:35:05 <sparq> I found a vendor in the UK, but that's not really any better
Jan 24 03:36:11 <sparq> hey roh 
Jan 24 03:37:26 <roh> i'll be in taipeh soon, but surely not setting a foot inside the us ;)
Jan 24 03:38:45 <sparq> Blast.
Jan 24 03:42:42 <sparq> ABLY-TECH makes *exactly* what I need -- it's the PA-CF18H part on http://www.ably.com.tw/
Jan 24 03:50:08 <bkruse_home> hey guys, the toolchain....is it up to date with the moko? what If I have to compile a third party library?
Jan 24 03:51:57 <balrog-kun> aren't there daily snapshots of the toolchain?
Jan 24 03:52:05 <balrog-kun> i'm off anyway
Jan 24 04:17:31 <bkruse_home> oh...didnt know it worked like that
Jan 24 04:19:48 <bkruse_home> would the snapshot .jffs2 be ok to install for a stable system
Jan 24 07:13:11 <bkruse_home> anyone? :[
Jan 24 07:23:08 <kristian-m> bkruse_home you should try - I have a build from last week running, it works fine
Jan 24 07:23:37 <bkruse_home> anyone have experience with alsa and moko?
Jan 24 07:23:56 <bkruse_home> kristian-m: have you ever built an application to access it?
Jan 24 07:58:00 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1195 has been created by sean_chiang(AT)openmoko.com
Jan 24 07:58:01 <cdbot2> * * gsmd can't pass pressure testing
Jan 24 07:58:02 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1195
Jan 24 08:29:06 <worldwarZ> how do you build the gdbserver package?
Jan 24 08:29:11 <worldwarZ> with bitbake?
Jan 24 08:29:22 <worldwarZ> or MokoMakefile?
Jan 24 08:37:30 <FuzzyCat> is tere still an issue with openembedded.org dns 
Jan 24 08:37:36 <FuzzyCat> is there still an issue with openembedded.org dns 
Jan 24 08:43:30 <TRIsoft> morning
Jan 24 08:44:16 <FuzzyCat> nin
Jan 24 08:51:14 <FuzzyCat> 85.214.40.226
Jan 24 08:54:06 <kristian-m> bkruse what do you mean with "to access it"?
Jan 24 09:07:54 <worldwarZ> can anyone help me regarding installing gdb in OpenMoko under QEMU?
Jan 24 09:08:22 <worldwarZ> please?
Jan 24 09:10:24 <kristian-m> worldwarZ ipkg -i gdb is not working?
Jan 24 09:11:11 <worldwarZ> kristian-m can one use ipkg to install things in QEMU?
Jan 24 09:11:43 <kristian-m> worldwarZ why not?
Jan 24 09:11:57 <worldwarZ> don't know, i'll try
Jan 24 09:12:01 <kristian-m> worldwarZ would you mind to change you're nickname?
Jan 24 09:12:25 <worldwarZ> yes, what's wrong with it?
Jan 24 09:17:34 <worldwarZ> would you prefer chickenballZ ?
Jan 24 09:17:41 <worldwarZ> or powerpuffgirlZ?
Jan 24 09:18:02 <Gottox> or even worse Zfs :)
Jan 24 09:18:27 <FuzzyCat> don't mention the war ?
Jan 24 09:20:39 <kristian-m> FuzzyCat that's not the point - there are other ways to object to militaristm then to call himself "war"
Jan 24 09:21:28 <FuzzyCat> I was more interested in *your* objection to his nick ... :)
Jan 24 09:21:55 <kristian-m> FuzzyCat i want to talk to people without thinking that they  may be idiots
Jan 24 09:22:02 <worldwarZ> you know what, i had no bad intentions when i chose this nick
Jan 24 09:22:18 <worldwarZ> so please let's not start a discussion about the war
Jan 24 09:22:20 <kristian-m> so what was your intention then?
Jan 24 09:22:21 <FuzzyCat> kristian-m: but.. but.. you're on the internet
Jan 24 09:22:32 <kristian-m> FuzzyCat :)
Jan 24 09:22:56 <worldwarZ> no intention, it was a nick for the nick's sake
Jan 24 09:39:36 <josch> netsplit!! \o/
Jan 24 09:43:39 <Hopscotch> good morning
Jan 24 09:53:32 <Stephmw> mornin
Jan 24 10:13:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1196 has been created by kristian(AT)mput.de
Jan 24 10:13:01 <cdbot2> * * SCM Tree on Project Overview page not showing stat
Jan 24 10:13:02 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1196
Jan 24 10:35:49 <poffy> DYNAMIC ENTRY
Jan 24 10:36:58 <zash_> Project Overlord
Jan 24 10:45:11 <zash_> mice ate my intertubes
Jan 24 10:59:30 <FuzzyCat> you'd better see a doctor
Jan 24 11:13:32 <Atul_> Hi all
Jan 24 11:13:55 <Atul_> I got error while executing AT Commands unable to handle packet type=2
Jan 24 11:13:58 <Atul_> why so ?
Jan 24 11:56:00 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1197 has been created by ebbe(AT)skummer.com
Jan 24 11:56:01 <cdbot2> * * Some messages are to high
Jan 24 11:56:02 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1197
Jan 24 12:18:25 <CIA-9> freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r57 10/trunk/software/py-proto/ (8 files): 
Jan 24 12:18:25 <CIA-9> freesmartphone.org: various bug-fixes
Jan 24 12:18:25 <CIA-9> freesmartphone.org: sample & docs improved
Jan 24 12:27:10 <CIA-9> openmoko: 03chris * r3938 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-launcher/ (20 files in 3 dirs): Check-in (completely untested, probably doesn't work yet and missing launcher)
Jan 24 12:33:54 <CIA-9> openmoko: 03chris * r3939 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-launcher/ (ChangeLog src/Makefile.am src/launcher-main.c): 
Jan 24 12:33:54 <CIA-9> openmoko: * src/Makefile.am:
Jan 24 12:33:54 <CIA-9> openmoko: * src/launcher-main.c: (main):
Jan 24 12:33:54 <CIA-9> openmoko: Fix building and make task manager work
Jan 24 12:39:17 <CIA-9> freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r58 10/trunk/software/py-proto/ (gsm_sample.py pygsmd.py): added info (last issued command) to error() method
Jan 24 12:39:55 <xcasex> ~TNT
Jan 24 12:39:56 <apt> Emacs Clients for the AOL Instant Messenger service. URL: http://brokendreams.dyndns.com/tnt/
Jan 24 12:40:02 <xcasex> o.O
Jan 24 12:40:10 <xcasex> ~yomama
Jan 24 12:40:12 <zash_> srsly
Jan 24 12:40:15 <xcasex> lol
Jan 24 12:40:17 <zash_> ~orly
Jan 24 12:40:18 <apt> YARLY
Jan 24 12:53:07 <RedDog> somebody knows, what's up with openembedded.org?
Jan 24 12:53:56 <balrog-kun> i heard about some issues with the dns
Jan 24 12:54:04 <balrog-kun> don't remember exactly
Jan 24 12:58:41 <CIA-9> freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r59 10/trunk/software/py-proto/gsm_sample.py: enhanced the formatting of the doc for our friends of aesthetics
Jan 24 13:02:58 <CIA-9> openmoko: 03chris * r3940 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-launcher/ (ChangeLog src/Makefile.am src/launcher-main.c src/launcher.h): 
Jan 24 13:02:58 <CIA-9> openmoko: * src/Makefile.am:
Jan 24 13:02:58 <CIA-9> openmoko: * src/launcher-main.c: (item_added_cb), (item_removed_cb), (main):
Jan 24 13:02:58 <CIA-9> openmoko: * src/launcher.h:
Jan 24 13:02:58 <CIA-9> openmoko: Add app launcher
Jan 24 13:19:06 <richard> hi, does anyone know anything about sending ussd from the terminal on the neo1973?
Jan 24 14:05:36 <miha> can someone give me an SVN revision number of the OpenMoko toochain
Jan 24 14:05:58 <miha> one earlier that say, december 2007?
Jan 24 14:06:07 <miha> please?
Jan 24 14:06:19 <zash_> cant you do checkouts by date?
Jan 24 14:07:43 <zash_> svn checkout urlandstuff -r '{2007-11-01}'
Jan 24 14:07:46 <zash_> or iduno
Jan 24 14:09:58 <miha> if you could give me a revision number i would appreciate...
Jan 24 14:10:48 <miha> wait, i think this could work too
Jan 24 14:10:49 <miha> thanks
Jan 24 14:14:18 <hrw> does someone know how much time does English service has for warranty repair?
Jan 24 14:14:36 <FuzzyCat> ?
Jan 24 14:14:58 <FuzzyCat> you mean by law how long they are allowed to take?
Jan 24 14:15:13 <hrw> yes
Jan 24 14:15:14 <FuzzyCat> or the minimum warranty period?
Jan 24 14:16:40 <FuzzyCat> checking
Jan 24 14:16:41 <hrw> how long repair can take
Jan 24 14:16:42 <hrw> thx
Jan 24 14:17:38 <FuzzyCat> mmm.. 'a reasonable amount of time'
Jan 24 14:18:15 <FuzzyCat> so I'd say <6 weeks dependant on the item... I'll try locate a more definate answer
Jan 24 14:18:21 <hrw> thx again
Jan 24 14:19:38 <CIA-9> openmoko: 03chris * r3941 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-utils.c src/today-utils.h): 
Jan 24 14:19:38 <CIA-9> openmoko: * src/today-utils.c:
Jan 24 14:19:38 <CIA-9> openmoko: * src/today-utils.h:
Jan 24 14:19:38 <CIA-9> openmoko: Remove unused includes
Jan 24 14:25:17 <CIA-9> openmoko: 03chris * r3942 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-launcher/src/ (8 files): You can't svn:externals files :(
Jan 24 14:26:22 <FuzzyCat> mm.. I can't finad a reference to a timeframe... 
Jan 24 14:26:54 <FuzzyCat> you can allways go through small claims court, it's cheap and quick
Jan 24 14:59:59 <spydon> Lo ppl
Jan 24 15:05:10 <spydon> It was a long time since the last community update, shall I interpret that to that you are very busy developing freerunner? :P
Jan 24 15:16:15 <miha> my boss is arguing with my other boss
Jan 24 15:16:34 <maito> how many bosses do you have?
Jan 24 15:17:01 <miha> only two but they argue all the time
Jan 24 15:17:13 <maito> heh
Jan 24 15:17:20 <maito> about what?
Jan 24 15:17:58 <miha> about whether it is polite or annoying to ask someone what is he working at
Jan 24 15:18:37 <maito> oh, sorry :)
Jan 24 15:19:07 <zedstar> sounds like too many chiefs!
Jan 24 15:19:38 <miha> yes, they are of the same opinion...
Jan 24 15:19:43 <CIA-9> openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r3943 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (4 files in 4 dirs): gsmd: query network registration status (Erin Yueh)
Jan 24 15:19:53 <miha> but regarding the other one, not themselves
Jan 24 15:26:02 <Ebbe> How do I find the latest known working u-boot?
Jan 24 15:26:17 <Ebbe> I don't have a debug-board but want to update u-boot
Jan 24 15:26:46 <Ebbe> So I need to know that it works
Jan 24 16:00:38 <Vegar> Ebbe: mickeyl announced a uboot version on one of the MLs a while ago
Jan 24 16:02:28 <Vegar> Ebbe: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/device-owners/2008-January/001069.html
Jan 24 16:02:47 <Vegar> Ebbe: read the replies to that mail before you decide to flash it
Jan 24 16:03:20 <Ebbe> Vegar: Tried it, but had some error, that it wan't compatible or something..
Jan 24 16:03:31 <Vegar> oh
Jan 24 16:03:34 <Vegar> that sounds strange
Jan 24 16:08:15 <Kekcuk> http://lostworlds.lv/go.php?1139657817 It's game!! If you enter this page you will vote for me!!(thanks too all who enter this page)
Jan 24 16:09:43 <FuzzyCat> go away you spam monkey
Jan 24 16:09:57 <spydon> freakin spammers... :P
Jan 24 16:12:13 <zedstar> yeh or at least givus some decent porn links ;)
Jan 24 16:13:37 <spydon> hehe he got k-lined ^^
Jan 24 16:20:58 <`pwgen`> is it normal ? I had to reboot openmoko before i can do calls ?
Jan 24 16:21:47 <Stephmw> hey guys - I'm going to have to get a laptop for a imminent contract and I was wondering what kind of specs I should be looking at for OM/OE/Qt/etc development.... model recommendations welcome ;)
Jan 24 16:23:29 <mickeyl> well
Jan 24 16:23:31 <mickeyl> (biased)
Jan 24 16:23:36 <mickeyl> there's only one model
Jan 24 16:23:36 <mickeyl> really
Jan 24 16:23:40 <mickeyl> or vendor, actually
Jan 24 16:23:50 <Stephmw> something I can carry without needing a lorry?
Jan 24 16:23:55 <mickeyl> the thinkpads are still _the_ choice 
Jan 24 16:24:07 <mickeyl> x61 as subnotebook
Jan 24 16:24:14 <mickeyl> less than 1.5kilo
Jan 24 16:24:33 <alphaone> mickeyl: Hey, fed up with your macbook already?
Jan 24 16:24:40 <mickeyl> or if you need large screen
Jan 24 16:24:40 <mickeyl> a t model
Jan 24 16:24:40 <mickeyl> haha
Jan 24 16:24:42 <mickeyl> actually
Jan 24 16:24:46 <mickeyl> i only used it for like 60 minuts
Jan 24 16:24:49 <mickeyl> can't tell for sure
Jan 24 16:24:55 <alphaone> ;-)
Jan 24 16:25:01 <mickeyl> but for linux development, the thinkpads still r o c k
Jan 24 16:25:06 <Stephmw> I'm likely to spend the best part of the next year working from it ;)
Jan 24 16:25:12 <Sup3rkiddo> dell xps m1330?
Jan 24 16:25:15 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: Looking forward to X300
Jan 24 16:25:23 <mickeyl> stefan_schmidt: indeed. i'm watching this as well
Jan 24 16:25:33 <Stephmw> Sup3rkiddo: cost is somewhat of an issue ;)
Jan 24 16:25:43 <mickeyl> stefan_schmidt: unfortunately Sabine won't allow any new devices for at least 6 months now :/
Jan 24 16:25:43 <Stephmw> Sup3rkiddo: cheaper I can get away with means more money in my pocket from the contract
Jan 24 16:25:46 <alphaone> Though the X300 is a bit big...
Jan 24 16:25:57 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: hehehe
Jan 24 16:26:03 <Sup3rkiddo> Stephmw, whoa...its cheap here
Jan 24 16:26:10 <mickeyl> i mean it's nuts, i _work_ with these things
Jan 24 16:26:16 <stefan_schmidt> alphaone: Only for children
Jan 24 16:26:21 <mickeyl> but she insists on "you have enough. period"
Jan 24 16:26:25 <mickeyl> *sigh*
Jan 24 16:26:30 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: You need an office outside of your flat. :)
Jan 24 16:26:40 <mickeyl> stefan_schmidt: that's where OpenMoko Germany comes into play again ;)
Jan 24 16:26:50 <alphaone> mickeyl: Hehe ;-)
Jan 24 16:26:56 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: But if she would not stop you, you would buy them all. ;)
Jan 24 16:27:01 <mickeyl> indeed
Jan 24 16:27:09 <mickeyl> we would be broke at the end of the year
Jan 24 16:27:18 <Sup3rkiddo> btw, no one has done work for translating OM apps right...there are some subtle issues to take care, i have a guy who wants to work on indic stuff..suggestions from all ye experts
Jan 24 16:27:19 <mickeyl> so it's good she's keeping the money together
Jan 24 16:27:19 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: I really wondered you were not interested in the chumby
Jan 24 16:27:21 <alphaone> But rich on gadgets
Jan 24 16:27:38 <mickeyl> Sup3rkiddo: GNU gettext way, intltool, .po files
Jan 24 16:27:55 <mickeyl> stefan_schmidt: one of my sane days ;)
Jan 24 16:28:07 <mickeyl> yesterday i almost bought a new font for 300 EUR
Jan 24 16:28:13 <mickeyl> stopped in the last minute
Jan 24 16:28:15 <mickeyl> *phew*
Jan 24 16:28:15 <Sup3rkiddo> mickeyl, yep, but are there any special guidelines sort of things 
Jan 24 16:28:18 <alphaone> A *font*?
Jan 24 16:28:27 <mickeyl> yes, a font
Jan 24 16:28:30 <mickeyl> fonts are expensive
Jan 24 16:28:31 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: Wait until you see it. We make sure to bring it with us when we meet the next time :)
Jan 24 16:28:31 <alphaone> Like this one?
Jan 24 16:28:36 <stefan_schmidt> *evilgrin*
Jan 24 16:28:38 <Sup3rkiddo> ..for openmoko especially
Jan 24 16:28:47 <alphaone> stefan_schmidt: Only you wont be there....
Jan 24 16:28:55 <mickeyl> Sup3rkiddo: not really. we're using the standard GNU / GNOME way of internationalizing apps
Jan 24 16:29:04 <stefan_schmidt> alphaone: grr, right
Jan 24 16:29:19 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: Still 300EUR is cheap for a font
Jan 24 16:29:20 <mickeyl> I'm the sun of a typographer
Jan 24 16:29:23 <mickeyl> I _love_ fonts
Jan 24 16:29:27 <FuzzyCat> sun ?
Jan 24 16:29:31 <mickeyl> oops
Jan 24 16:29:34 * FuzzyCat beams
Jan 24 16:29:35 <mickeyl> son even
Jan 24 16:29:38 <FuzzyCat> :P
Jan 24 16:29:39 <mickeyl> ;)
Jan 24 16:29:40 <cjb_ie> sunbeams?
Jan 24 16:29:56 <alphaone> mickeyl: Heh. That's always your excuse
Jan 24 16:30:00 * mickeyl fell in love with the newly release "FF Meta Serif"
Jan 24 16:30:05 <Sup3rkiddo> ah yeah....but just wondering, some strings in some languages are special cases
Jan 24 16:30:09 <mickeyl> alphaone: mmmh... is it _that_ obvious? :D
Jan 24 16:30:12 * Sup3rkiddo loves Comic Sans
Jan 24 16:30:14 <FuzzyCat> who mentioned chumby
Jan 24 16:30:23 <kdean06> O_o
Jan 24 16:30:25 <alphaone> mickeyl: ;-)
Jan 24 16:30:26 <FuzzyCat> stupid us only geek toy
Jan 24 16:30:34 <kdean06> Sup3rkiddo, You'e kidding, right?
Jan 24 16:30:35 <alphaone> FuzzyCat: I got one
Jan 24 16:30:37 <stefan_schmidt> FuzzyCat: We have 4 in .de
Jan 24 16:30:40 <FuzzyCat> !!!!
Jan 24 16:30:52 <FuzzyCat> I thought htey were classed as munitions...
Jan 24 16:30:54 <stefan_schmidt> FuzzyCat: You need an US proxy
Jan 24 16:31:04 <kdean06> http://bancomicsans.com/home.html
Jan 24 16:31:17 <FuzzyCat> yeah, but yours just got on the watch list stefan_schmidt 
Jan 24 16:31:18 <alphaone> FuzzyCat: https://totalueberwachung.de/~alphaone/gallery/chumby/index.html
Jan 24 16:31:19 <Sup3rkiddo> :P
Jan 24 16:31:23 <mickeyl> kdean06: hehe, fun
Jan 24 16:31:35 <stefan_schmidt> FuzzyCat: They spy on my mobile already
Jan 24 16:31:50 <FuzzyCat> chumbytastic!
Jan 24 16:32:01 <stefan_schmidt> Just one day battery life. And it is not the neo
Jan 24 16:32:02 <kdean06> mickeyl, Ever seen the movie "Helvetica"?
Jan 24 16:32:15 <FuzzyCat> lol OM on a chumby
Jan 24 16:32:15 <mickeyl> kdean06: no. there's a movie about that stupid thing?
Jan 24 16:32:22 <mickeyl> helvetica is so overused
Jan 24 16:32:24 <mickeyl> it's not fun
Jan 24 16:32:28 <mickeyl> disgusting
Jan 24 16:32:39 <kdean06> My wife is a digital prepress technician with quite a bit of litho, flexo and grevure (sp?) so the passion has kind of bleed onto me. :)
Jan 24 16:32:51 <mickeyl> kdean06: aaah. good choice :)
Jan 24 16:33:02 <FuzzyCat> is the number of colours really limited stefan_schmidt ?
Jan 24 16:33:10 <kdean06> Helvetica is about the typeface, yeah. But in general, it's "fair" including those who use "ABH". :)
Jan 24 16:33:42 <stefan_schmidt> FuzzyCat: Ask alphaone. He and Shoragan are the master of these devices. I just use it atm
Jan 24 16:33:58 <stefan_schmidt> FuzzyCat: But it's more a fb driver problem
Jan 24 16:34:17 <alphaone> FuzzyCat: At the moment it looks like fb driver problem, yes.
Jan 24 16:34:28 <alphaone> Also opie seems to run fine.
Jan 24 16:34:40 <alphaone> (I.e. no colour distortion)
Jan 24 16:35:25 <FuzzyCat> :D
Jan 24 16:35:51 <alphaone> mickeyl: Oh master of opie! Can you tell me what opie does differently from kdrive that on the chumby one has distorted colors and the other doesn't?
Jan 24 16:37:00 <mickeyl> hah
Jan 24 16:37:01 <mickeyl> master of opie
Jan 24 16:37:08 <mickeyl> no one called me that for like 3 years or so
Jan 24 16:37:11 <mickeyl> ok
Jan 24 16:37:14 <mickeyl> if i recall
Jan 24 16:37:14 <alphaone> :-)
Jan 24 16:37:35 <mickeyl> qt/embedded usually drives the framebuffer in one mode
Jan 24 16:37:39 <mickeyl> 565rgb or what
Jan 24 16:37:49 <mickeyl> if that's not matching, you need to patch
Jan 24 16:37:53 <mickeyl> but honestly
Jan 24 16:37:57 <mickeyl> what are you doing with Opie?
Jan 24 16:37:58 <mickeyl> Opie is dead
Jan 24 16:38:52 <alphaone> mickeyl: I'm not!
Jan 24 16:38:54 <alphaone> http://forum.chumby.com/viewtopic.php?pid=8551#p8551
Jan 24 16:39:20 <alphaone> Just watched the video and noticed that there the colours are indeed fine.
Jan 24 16:40:06 <mickeyl> alphaone: oh strange. are you using the same kernel as the other guys?
Jan 24 16:40:52 <alphaone> mickeyl: That's what he says, yeah
Jan 24 16:41:05 <mickeyl> hmm
Jan 24 16:41:09 <mickeyl> same hw rev:?
Jan 24 16:43:35 <alphaone> That I don't know, but I suspect it.
Jan 24 16:44:04 <alphaone> I doubt my kernel would work on different hw revisions
Jan 24 16:44:13 <mickeyl> hmm, i'M afraid then I'm out of ideas
Jan 24 16:46:42 <amarsh04> totally ot question: are there any countries still using cdma where you can bring your own handset and get it registered? I have two working cdma handsets that are worthless in .au that I'd rather see put to use rather than accumulate as landfill
Jan 24 16:54:17 <ronr> hi, I just install openmoko on my qtek 9000, at first look, it is what I've been looking for, but some things aren't working quite yet. I try to get wifi working and iwconfig output looks ok, but /etc/init.d/networking restart won't give an IP and I there doesn't appear to be a dhclient (so I could do dhclient wlan0), how do I configure my wifi?
Jan 24 16:54:39 <Stephmw> mickeyl: found a good thinkpad resource, thanks for the suggestion, http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:Models
Jan 24 16:55:03 <ronr> more on the subject of configuration, am I supposed to just edit /etc/ or are there any config tools (gui) in openmoke (that I for now just can't find)
Jan 24 16:55:30 <mickeyl> Stephmw: np
Jan 24 16:55:57 <balrog-kun> ronr: i suggest writing to the list about the lack of dhclient
Jan 24 16:56:35 <ronr> balrog-kun: ok, so it's supposed to be there
Jan 24 16:56:39 <pH5> ronr: try udhcpc
Jan 24 16:57:24 <CIA-9> openmoko: 03thomas * r3944 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/configure.ac: opkg: add configure check for libgpgme
Jan 24 16:58:28 <ronr> pH5: great thanks!! I'm successfully pinging google now :)
Jan 24 17:50:34 <PBeck> hi
Jan 24 17:55:22 <bkruse> what alsa lib does the dialer app build against?
Jan 24 17:55:35 <bkruse> could anyone give me an ldd of the dialer app please? (Do not have my neo with me :[ )
Jan 24 18:04:26 <bkruse> Anyone run ipkg install ldd; sh /usr/bin/ldd path/to/dialer/app
Jan 24 18:07:20 <kristian-m> bkruse https://nopaste.eof.name/393
Jan 24 18:08:21 <bkruse> kristian-m: yay!
Jan 24 18:08:23 * bkruse clicks
Jan 24 18:10:38 <kristian-m> bkruse sry for the delay ;)
Jan 24 18:10:59 <bkruse> kristian-m: interesting...nothing about alsa
Jan 24 18:11:12 <bkruse> what lib does the dialer use for binding to audio? HMM
Jan 24 18:11:57 <wurp2> Can you send sound to alsa on openmoko at the same time that pulseaudio is playing sound?
Jan 24 18:12:24 <wurp2> I thought alsa handled playing sound from multiple apps at once, but I have to kill pulseaudio to get sound to play from mplayer
Jan 24 18:12:26 <bkruse> probably not, pulseaudio will have a lock on /dev/dsp most likely
Jan 24 18:12:52 <kristian-m> wurp2 sometimes it workes sometimes not.
Jan 24 18:13:16 <wurp2> So if I want to lose the (apparent) cpu hogging of pulseaudio (which causes brief pauses in mp3 playback), I have to lose e.g. the ability to hear my phone ring?
Jan 24 18:13:31 <kristian-m> wurp2 right
Jan 24 18:13:32 <wurp2> and hear the person I'm talking to, etc.
Jan 24 18:13:40 <wurp2> kristian-m: Bummer!
Jan 24 18:13:47 <kristian-m> wurp2 that's why you should use pulseaudio then
Jan 24 18:13:51 <mjr> actually not the latter one
Jan 24 18:14:01 <bkruse> kristian-m: do you know what library the dialer uses for audio
Jan 24 18:14:05 <bkruse> this is really puzzling me
Jan 24 18:14:20 <wurp2> Is anyone looking into making pulseaudio use less cpu?
Jan 24 18:14:31 <kristian-m> nop, no idea - i only have a data-plan
Jan 24 18:14:40 <wurp2> Audio playback (once it's decompressed) seems it should be very low CPU
Jan 24 18:14:50 <bkruse> kristian-m: can you ldd pulseaudio also? 
Jan 24 18:14:55 <kristian-m> wurp2 i just stop it ;-)
Jan 24 18:15:04 <kristian-m> bkruse hold on a sec
Jan 24 18:15:12 <bkruse> kristian-m: thansk thanks :]
Jan 24 18:15:23 <bkruse> wurp2: if the codec is optimized for i386/x86/x86_64 then running on an arm system could make it more processor intensive
Jan 24 18:15:44 <kristian-m>  https://nopaste.eof.name/394
Jan 24 18:16:23 <wurp2> bkruse: Maybe that's the answer, then, to start a branch of pulseaudio (or embed switches in the code) to make it more ARM friendly
Jan 24 18:16:43 <bkruse> right right
Jan 24 18:16:45 <mjr> the dialer (as far as talking goes) just sets the mixer to feed audio mic->gsm chip->earpiece
Jan 24 18:16:51 <bkruse> a LOT of codecs have optiimzations for CPU's
Jan 24 18:17:04 <bkruse> codec_gsm for example, has many x86 based optimizations
Jan 24 18:17:22 <wurp2> The first step might be just to remove those optimizations
Jan 24 18:17:38 <wurp2> or, ideally, turn on the switch they already provided to turn off those optimizations :-)
Jan 24 18:17:59 <bkruse> right, it very well could have arm opts also
Jan 24 18:18:09 <mjr> also, pulseaudio's cpu hogging has nothing to do with codecs
Jan 24 18:18:35 <wurp2> mjr: Hmm, that's a good point - with where pulseaudio sits, it's not really doing any codec, is it?
Jan 24 18:18:35 <bkruse> what is librt
Jan 24 18:18:43 <bkruse> mjr: agreed
Jan 24 18:19:04 <wurp2> it's just a mixer & interface that thunks to alsa (in this case)
Jan 24 18:19:18 <wurp2> mixing still shouldn't take any significant cpu, though, I don't think
Jan 24 18:19:35 <mjr> it hogs cpu even without doing any mixing
Jan 24 18:19:57 <CIA-9> openmoko: 03werner * r3945 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/gta02-acc.patch: 
Jan 24 18:19:57 <CIA-9> openmoko: Now applied funbar-2.6.24-platform-spi-gpio-acc-repair.patch for real.
Jan 24 18:19:57 <CIA-9> openmoko: Previous attempt had only the manual change, since "quilt fold" rejected
Jan 24 18:19:57 <CIA-9> openmoko: the whole patch.
Jan 24 18:20:10 <wurp2> mjr: Anyone know how it manages that?
Jan 24 18:20:11 <bkruse> kristian-m: man, what library does this audio stuff for the dialer app..ugh
Jan 24 18:20:21 <mjr> http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1193
Jan 24 18:20:44 <wurp2> It seems in that case it could just directly pass data to alsa, after some very simple transforms at most
Jan 24 18:20:51 <mjr> I don't know more than that
Jan 24 18:20:53 <wurp2> mjr: reading
Jan 24 18:22:57 <kristian-m> bkruse ad mjr pointed out, it's just setting the alsmixer
Jan 24 18:23:14 <wurp2> mjr: Maybe I'll write a little library that just dumps core after so many calls to rt_sigprocmask with the appropriate parameters, so we can see what's making that call
Jan 24 18:23:33 <bkruse> mjr: so if I was writing a voip app, would I bind directly to also?
Jan 24 18:23:35 <bkruse> alsa*
Jan 24 18:23:38 <wurp2> Or put pulseaudio on my main box and strace to see if it does it there, too, and trace back code
Jan 24 18:23:54 <bkruse> using alsa lib, I try to bind to device "default" and it says no such device...building against alsa lib .14 (same as on the moko)
Jan 24 18:24:22 <kristian-m> see: http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/src/phone-kit/
Jan 24 18:24:54 <mjr> note I'm not sure if the rt_sigprocmask is a wild goose chase or not, but at least it does show it's doing _something_ instead of just waiting for the next batch of data to push out
Jan 24 18:24:59 <kristian-m> snprintf(command, 100, "alsactl -f %s restore", sound_profile_filenames[profile]);
Jan 24 18:25:11 <wurp2> Better yet, do we have instructions on binding a debugger on a linux box networked with the neo to an app running on the neo
Jan 24 18:25:41 <wurp2> Or is it just the straightforward normal gdb stuff?
Jan 24 18:26:31 * bkruse clicks on kristian-m's link
Jan 24 18:26:38 <bkruse> kristian-m: where is that command?
Jan 24 18:26:55 <bkruse> how come I do not see it binding against libasound? (the dialer)
Jan 24 18:27:11 <bkruse> I got gdb server working on my neo, if that is what you mean
Jan 24 18:27:12 <kristian-m> bkruse moko-sound.c
Jan 24 18:27:31 <wurp2> bkruse: Yup
Jan 24 18:27:33 * bkruse clicks the source file and sees minimal lines of code and rejoices
Jan 24 18:27:44 <kristian-m> :-)
Jan 24 18:28:01 <CIA-9> openmoko: 03werner * r3946 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/gta02-acc.patch: (log message trimmed)
Jan 24 18:28:01 <CIA-9> openmoko: Applied s3c-gpio-spi-allow-multi-cs.patch to gta02.patch:
Jan 24 18:28:01 <CIA-9> openmoko: From: warmcat <andy@openmoko.com>
Jan 24 18:28:01 <CIA-9> openmoko: - Allow multiple chip selects to really work with S3C bitbang
Jan 24 18:28:01 <CIA-9> openmoko: Signed-off-by: warmcat <andy@openmoko.com>
Jan 24 18:28:02 <bkruse> moko should not be executing system commands like that...
Jan 24 18:28:03 <CIA-9> openmoko: ---
Jan 24 18:28:04 <bkruse> ugh....anyways..
Jan 24 18:28:07 <CIA-9> openmoko:  arch/arm/mach-s3c2410/mach-gta01.c | 2 +-
Jan 24 18:28:29 <bkruse> kristian-m: where does it actually bind to /dev/dsp and the mic and speaker though?
Jan 24 18:29:06 <kristian-m> bkruse that defined in the /etc/*.state
Jan 24 18:29:09 <mjr> bkruse, it doesn't have to
Jan 24 18:29:23 <bkruse> mjr: how would my application do it then?
Jan 24 18:29:27 <bkruse> or kristian-m
Jan 24 18:29:50 <mjr> your application should use pulseaudio for audio i/o
Jan 24 18:30:01 <hwMoD> hey all
Jan 24 18:30:02 <bkruse> pulseaudio? perfect, that is what I needed to know mjr
Jan 24 18:30:09 <bkruse> I am going to have to write a pulse audio driver for it
Jan 24 18:30:13 <kristian-m> just call "alsactl -f /etc/blah.state restore" yourself...
Jan 24 18:30:14 <bkruse> or is binding to pulse audio fairly simple
Jan 24 18:30:14 <CIA-9> openmoko: 03werner * r3947 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/gta02-acc.patch: 
Jan 24 18:30:14 <CIA-9> openmoko: adjust-our-gpio-spi-speed.patch by Andy Green.
Jan 24 18:30:14 <CIA-9> openmoko: [ Try to bring speed up to 10 MHz. ]
Jan 24 18:30:22 <hwMoD> does openmoko support bidi and rtl languages? and if not, how can I help? :)
Jan 24 18:30:43 <bkruse> kristian-m: yes, but I am just having a problem thinking in my head how to send/receive audio. I have been taugh "you bind to alsa default, you talk to it."
Jan 24 18:30:43 <mjr> Shouldn't be difficult. The downside is the current performance troubles with pulseaudio, but hopefully that'll be fixed...
Jan 24 18:31:08 <bkruse> mjr: well if everyone is depending on it, I hope so. So there is an example of libpulseaudio in this dialer somewhere
Jan 24 18:31:29 <mjr> you're confused
Jan 24 18:31:38 <bkruse> mjr: very
Jan 24 18:31:53 <bkruse> mjr: just from the way I have been taught (using libportaudio or alsa) please enlighten me :]
Jan 24 18:32:12 <mjr> the dialer doesn't need pulseaudio (directly) for anything (only indirectly, the gtk button event sounds go through it)
Jan 24 18:32:35 <mjr> apart from the event sounds, the dialer doesn't handle any audio whatsoever
Jan 24 18:32:47 <bkruse> mjr: I would greatly appreciate it
Jan 24 18:32:57 <bkruse> oh really?
Jan 24 18:33:18 <bkruse> Gotcha, well, I guess I could do that with my gtk app also, but for now, the cli version, I need an example of implementing with pulseaudio
Jan 24 18:33:36 <bkruse> Where could I find an example on this
Jan 24 18:34:03 <spydon> hwMoD, I don't think it support those...
Jan 24 18:34:13 <hwMoD> how can i help then?
Jan 24 18:34:22 <hwMoD> large market for hebrew, arabic, farsi...
Jan 24 18:35:09 <mjr> good question on the bidi and rtl; openmoko is (currently) using gtk which can do most of the heavy lifting on those fronts, but don't know how much higher level support one would need in the framework, if any
Jan 24 18:35:33 <hwMoD> is there an emulator or virtualisation i can play with?
Jan 24 18:36:54 <bkruse> mjr: example of using libpulseaudio? Or rather, where does the audio from a phone call come from...ya, thats it :]
Jan 24 18:37:25 <CIA-9> openmoko: 03werner * r3948 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/gta02-acc.patch: (log message trimmed)
Jan 24 18:37:29 <CIA-9> openmoko: Merged motion-sensor-driver-fixes.patch into gta02-acc.patch
Jan 24 18:37:29 <`pwgen`> anyone with knowlege about  the gsm modem and gsmd here ?
Jan 24 18:37:31 <CIA-9> openmoko: - various fixes with error paths in probe
Jan 24 18:37:33 <CIA-9> openmoko:  - add a "golden" chip init sequence for "data ready" operation
Jan 24 18:37:35 <CIA-9> openmoko:  - change to use the combo "data ready" bit
Jan 24 18:37:37 <CIA-9> openmoko: Currently there is some problem that it spends way too much time spamming
Jan 24 18:37:39 <CIA-9> openmoko: SPI when it should be idle, so the device runs at like 25% speed overall
Jan 24 18:39:29 <mmontour> bkruse: phone-call audio is analog to/from the TI Calypso chipset. The wiki has a "Neo1973 Audio Subsystem" page that shows how audio is routed in various call modes.
Jan 24 18:39:33 <mjr> Ask google for examples. For the latter question, the audio comes from the GSM chip through the codec chip, which is usually set to route it directly to the earpiece in the dialer. You can set the mixer to rather route the audio to AD converter and thence to your app (using pulseaudio/ALSA) instead. The mixer is fiendishly complicated to set up. See the wiki.
Jan 24 18:40:20 <bkruse> mmontour: checked out that page, ifnormative, not what i am looking for in terms of development
Jan 24 18:40:33 <bkruse> mjr: perfect, I will. When you say pulseaudio/ALSA does that mean both?
Jan 24 18:41:05 <mjr> in the sense that pulseaudio will use alsa
Jan 24 18:42:49 <bkruse> mjr: gotcha, ok, off to write against pulseaudio and port this beast
Jan 24 18:42:53 <bkruse> thanks for all your help mjr :]
Jan 24 18:43:32 <unknown_lamer> bah why pulseaudio instead of dmix
Jan 24 18:43:57 <unknown_lamer> gnome bloatware does not belong on a phone :-(
Jan 24 18:44:42 <hwMoD> is there a way to develop for the phone without having a phone?
Jan 24 18:44:57 <unknown_lamer> hwMoD: emulators, xoo, or just write a gtk app
Jan 24 18:45:37 <hwMoD> ill look into those emulators
Jan 24 18:45:56 <hwMoD> see how i can get some bidi/rtl power into this beast
Jan 24 18:46:11 <unknown_lamer> there's not much reason to use qemu over an xnest/xoo running matchbox and the openmoko software
Jan 24 18:46:29 <unknown_lamer> pango in theory supports bidi out of the box so there should be no effort
Jan 24 18:46:38 <unknown_lamer> just pop in a unicode rtl marker and spit out rtl text 
Jan 24 18:46:50 <unknown_lamer> works for me when viewing ancient farsi at least
Jan 24 18:47:57 <unknown_lamer> if the apps are being written properly they should be using gettext or similar so you should just need to write a translation of UI stuff for your preffered language
Jan 24 18:48:15 <mjr> yeah, that's the ideal situation
Jan 24 18:48:18 <unknown_lamer> naturally there might be evil evil layout issues from evil people not thinking of non-european languages
Jan 24 18:49:08 <FuzzyCat> not thinking of non...
Jan 24 18:49:11 <FuzzyCat> mmm
Jan 24 18:49:59 <unknown_lamer> I should localize the UI for rune based old english har
Jan 24 18:51:18 <wurp2> hwMoD: The advantage to using qemu as your emulator would be that there are good instructions at wiki.openmoko.org on how to do it...
Jan 24 18:53:18 <mjr> qemu is slow and a bit superfluous
Jan 24 18:55:26 <SpeedEvil> pulseaudios CPU usage is insane.
Jan 24 18:55:28 <wurp2> qemu is horribly slow
Jan 24 18:55:44 <wurp2> But I dunno how to set up any other emulator :-)
Jan 24 18:56:00 <SpeedEvil> There is the $300 solution.
Jan 24 18:56:06 <wurp2> Oh, I did that
Jan 24 18:56:13 <wurp2> I was just talking about for hwMoD's request
Jan 24 18:56:42 <wurp2> Of course, the $300 solution doesn't fix the slowness of pulseaudio ;-)
Jan 24 18:56:49 <SpeedEvil> No.
Jan 24 18:56:54 <wurp2> which is my other talking point for the day
Jan 24 18:57:22 <SpeedEvil> Even if it was doing a slow resampling filter, it shouldn't be that slow
Jan 24 18:58:11 <bkruse> wurp2: true
Jan 24 18:59:29 <SpeedEvil> And on the ginger front - apparently it was bought for planting as an ornamental. Oops.
Jan 24 19:00:02 <wurp2> SpeedEvil: ?!?
Jan 24 19:00:18 <SpeedEvil> oh - mischn
Jan 24 19:00:43 <wurp2> interesting variety in your interests ;-)
Jan 24 19:01:03 <SpeedEvil> I found a large bag of ginger roots that had been sitting in the kitchen, bought from the latest supermarket, so to stop it going off, I grated and froze it.
Jan 24 19:01:47 <wurp2> heh
Jan 24 19:05:00 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1198 has been created by cwixon(AT)usa.net
Jan 24 19:05:02 <cdbot2> * * Audio (via headphone jack) doesn't couple well to some line-inputs
Jan 24 19:05:03 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1198
Jan 24 19:06:20 <FuzzyCat> ^^^^ you actually managed to get audio at all?!
Jan 24 19:07:40 <SpeedEvil> In what case?
Jan 24 19:46:20 <wurp2> I have a problem with the application selector in the upper left window disappearing
Jan 24 19:46:25 <wurp2> Anyone know anything about that offhand?
Jan 24 19:46:40 <wurp2> When it does the apps stop responding to short presses of the power or aux button, too
Jan 24 19:46:44 <wurp2> which leaves me pretty much screwed
Jan 24 19:47:09 <wurp2> I just end up rebooting (when I don't have a linux computer available to ssh in)
Jan 24 19:49:27 <wurp2> (I should say, the application selector in the upper left of the screen)
Jan 24 20:04:43 <mickeyl> wurp2: never seen that one
Jan 24 20:04:43 <mickeyl> must be a new one
Jan 24 20:08:27 <galexander> ok it looks like gllin is finally released for gta01!  yay.  now for the other question: can it place and receive calls?
Jan 24 20:09:59 <mjr> yes, reliability varying between builds
Jan 24 20:15:12 <Blastur> you wanna hear something freaky?
Jan 24 20:15:22 <Blastur> i had a dream last night, that freerunner was out on the market
Jan 24 20:15:28 <Blastur> i was soo disappointed when i woke up
Jan 24 20:15:54 <wurp2> Blastur: hah
Jan 24 20:16:01 <wurp2> Just buy an 01
Jan 24 20:16:13 <wurp2> Then you can be frustrated with all the little things you thought wouldn't bother you
Jan 24 20:16:23 <Blastur> i need wifi unfortunately, otherwise i would :)
Jan 24 20:16:26 <wurp2> and excited with all the cool little crap you never thought you coudl do
Jan 24 20:16:33 <wurp2> s/coudl/could/
Jan 24 20:16:33 <apt> wurp2 meant: and excited with all the cool little crap you never thought you could do
Jan 24 20:17:26 <wurp2> For me, I'm either at home (in which case inet over bluetooth is fine) or out and about where there's no WiFi, so gprs is the only choice
Jan 24 20:17:42 <wurp2> Now if I can only get either one of those to work consistently :-)
Jan 24 20:18:08 <wurp2> mickeyl: I'm running on a build about 2 weeks old
Jan 24 20:18:16 <mjr> gprs works consistently for me, but I really like not to lose the ability to receive calls while having the connection up :]
Jan 24 20:18:20 <wurp2> I didn't notice it happening before I installed SettingsGui
Jan 24 20:18:32 <wurp2> But I also got gsm working for the first time around the same time
Jan 24 20:18:40 <wurp2> mjr: Excellent point
Jan 24 20:18:43 <mjr> I would really like
Jan 24 20:19:14 <Blastur> even if freerunner was released tomorrow, i probably would not buy it until it can reliable place and receive calls + has acceptable batterytime.. and judging from what ive seen on the lists and in this channel, it is months away from that :) 
Jan 24 20:19:18 <mjr> (so how's the gprs multiplexing coming along is the question)
Jan 24 20:19:23 <Blastur> but im willing to wait for something guuud
Jan 24 21:10:36 <SpeedEvil> 22mm (compression,solder-ring,yorkshire,end-feed,endfeed)
Jan 24 21:10:39 <SpeedEvil> oops
Jan 24 21:16:13 <bagpuss_thecat> SpeedEvil: I daren't ask :-)
Jan 24 21:17:47 <SpeedEvil> I am suffering plumbing problems, and am looking for bits to construct a magnetite and debris filter for my central heating system.
Jan 24 21:18:28 <spydon> freakin geek :P
Jan 24 21:18:48 <spydon> knows everything :P
Jan 24 21:19:13 <SpeedEvil> A) pay $180 or so for a filter. B) put one together out of hard drive magnets and plumbing fittings for $20
Jan 24 21:22:15 <kdean06> SpeedEvil, Those hard drive magnets are used everywhere. I made a few magnetic stirplates out of case fans and those magnets. Cost effective yeast culturing. :)
Jan 24 21:22:39 <cb22> indeed. hdd magnets ftw :)
Jan 24 21:26:19 <zash_> hm
Jan 24 21:30:28 <wurp2> SpeedEvil: Hmm... spend $20 in parts plus several hours making & testing one, or $180 to buy one
Jan 24 21:30:33 <wurp2> I think I might go the $180 route...
Jan 24 21:31:17 <cb22> wurp2: hand in your geek badge on the way out please :p
Jan 24 21:31:26 <SpeedEvil> wurp2: I do not have the $180
Jan 24 21:31:51 <SpeedEvil> I'm currently unemployed due to disability. Hence money is a bit tight.
Jan 24 21:32:13 <zash_> hm, harddrive magnets .. http://pic.zash.se/Set125_01.jpg
Jan 24 21:32:15 <zash_> hm
Jan 24 21:32:38 <cb22> you guys seen the james bond mythbusters episode?
Jan 24 21:32:48 <cb22> i want those magnets!
Jan 24 21:33:08 <SpeedEvil> Ebay has lots of magnets
Jan 24 21:34:15 <wurp2> SpeedEvil: ouch!
Jan 24 21:36:02 <wurp2> cb22: I have three kids, a full time job, two web sites, and a neo.  I have to use a little perspective on how much time I spend geeking out on arbitrary things...
Jan 24 21:38:51 <cb22> wurp2: ouch. i wish i had time mgmt skills
Jan 24 21:39:17 <cb22> currently all i pretty much do is hang out with friends and read digg/.
Jan 24 21:40:43 <wurp2> cb22: I wish I had time management skills too :-)
Jan 24 21:41:41 <cb22> hehe. teh inertubes has enslaved us all!!1!11 
Jan 24 21:41:42 * balrog-kun joins in the wishing
Jan 24 22:13:36 <inwoo> anyone have any luck with t-mobile pppd manual gprs?
Jan 24 22:13:44 <SpeedEvil> UK?
Jan 24 22:13:50 <SpeedEvil> ->inwoo
Jan 24 22:13:53 <inwoo> nope
Jan 24 22:13:54 <inwoo> us
Jan 24 22:13:59 <SpeedEvil> done UK
Jan 24 22:14:13 <inwoo> SpeedEvil: did you use the wiki's t-mobile ppd scripts?
Jan 24 22:14:33 <inwoo> SpeedEvil: this one http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GPRS?
Jan 24 22:17:42 <SpeedEvil> Sort-of.
Jan 24 22:18:02 <SpeedEvil> Unfortunetely, I no longer have the scripts I used owing to a tragic mke2fs accident.
Jan 24 22:18:08 <inwoo> ouch~.
Jan 24 22:18:30 <inwoo> well atleast i know it's possible... just don't have the correct scripts i suppose.
Jan 24 22:18:50 <SpeedEvil> I don't know about the US
Jan 24 22:19:31 <balrog-kun> what's inwoo?
Jan 24 22:20:15 <inwoo> huh? .. it's me.
Jan 24 22:20:28 <balrog-kun> oh, heh, sorry
Jan 24 22:21:02 <balrog-kun> i saw SpeedEvil say ->inwoo and i thought, what's that strange syntax :p
Jan 24 22:21:28 <zedstar> for gprs i didnt have much success following the wiki but found scripts else where that worked
Jan 24 22:21:39 <zedstar> but was vodafone uk
Jan 24 22:22:25 <balrog-kun> i only once tried my pppd script that i used with the same SIM but a different modem, on the pc and it wouldn't connect
Jan 24 22:22:44 <balrog-kun> but i didn't bother to check why
Jan 24 22:23:17 <zedstar> vodafone are a bit of a bitch though and disconnect idle tcp sessions
Jan 24 22:23:21 <inwoo> zedstar: do you have the vodafone uk scripts somewhere?
Jan 24 22:23:29 <zedstar> inwoo yeh hang on
Jan 24 22:23:47 <inwoo> zedstar: thanks, i'll try to force it to work somehow for tmobile
Jan 24 22:24:00 <zedstar> http://zedstar.org/blog/2008/01/11/gprs-connection-with-openmoko/
Jan 24 22:25:57 <inwoo> thanks.
Jan 24 22:28:44 <zedstar> u can get a vodafone SIM for 2 pounds which is not bad so got a spare for my neo for testing
Jan 24 22:28:50 <zedstar> in uk that is
Jan 24 22:31:16 <SpeedEvil> t-mobile - 50p
Jan 24 22:31:20 <SpeedEvil> Though.
Jan 24 22:31:33 <SpeedEvil> Also.
Jan 24 22:31:49 <zedstar> ah nice will get one...do they cap 1 pound daily?
Jan 24 22:31:51 <SpeedEvil> On that, you get internet at a pound a day capped
Jan 24 22:31:58 <zedstar> ok cook
Jan 24 22:32:00 <zedstar> l
Jan 24 22:32:04 <SpeedEvil> or 137K for a pound
Jan 24 22:32:11 <SpeedEvil> and thereafter capped
Jan 24 22:32:46 <zedstar> be interested to test idle tcp connection on t-mobile
Jan 24 22:33:27 <SpeedEvil> IIRC I got a couple of hours without problems
Jan 24 22:35:01 <zedstar> how it should be....i can leave an ssh session logged in to a server without vodafone disconnecting that session
Jan 24 22:35:07 <zedstar> cant
Jan 24 22:35:36 <SpeedEvil> you may be able to if you enable keepalive
Jan 24 22:36:06 <zedstar> yeh i looked at that but seems u need to enable that on tcp socket when u open it....ie from your own program is ok
Jan 24 22:37:13 <wurp2> zedstar: In that case you could write a simple tunnel with keepalive, and connect ssh to your local tunnel and the tunnel to your actual target
Jan 24 22:37:43 <wurp2> Which might not be a bad little app to have in general for systems that need keepalive
Jan 24 22:37:47 <SpeedEvil> deosn't ssh have a fag?
Jan 24 22:37:54 <wurp2> You could hide it all away
Jan 24 22:38:11 <wurp2> SpeedEvil: One would think... but my solution is always to write code :-/
Jan 24 22:38:15 <SpeedEvil> yeah - it does.
Jan 24 22:38:18 <SpeedEvil> -o KeepAlive
Jan 24 22:38:38 <wurp2> that's probably even easier than writing the tunnel ;-)
Jan 24 22:39:05 <SpeedEvil> Or use ssh as a tunnel
Jan 24 22:39:08 <SpeedEvil> It does socka
Jan 24 22:39:10 <SpeedEvil> s
Jan 24 22:39:22 <zedstar> ah that looks a cool option
Jan 24 22:40:28 <zedstar> will try that at the weekend......never used keepalive before
Jan 24 22:40:41 <zedstar> be curious how that looks on tcpdump
Jan 24 22:41:48 <spydon> gn folks
Jan 24 23:10:47 <Swyty> ;]
Jan 24 23:10:50 <Swyty> bujaka co?
Jan 24 23:10:51 <Swyty> haha
Jan 24 23:11:31 <raster> moo
Jan 24 23:17:20 <hwMoD> does anyone know the username and password for openmoko_dev.vmx vmware image?
Jan 24 23:22:39 <wurp2> hwMoD: nope, sorry
Jan 24 23:22:59 <wurp2> hwMoD: I didn't know there was such a thing
Jan 24 23:23:14 <hwMoD> :<
Jan 24 23:23:33 <hwMoD> it starts up ubuntu, with machine name opnmoko-something
Jan 24 23:23:36 <wurp2> Where did you find it?
Jan 24 23:23:41 <hwMoD> does that make any sense? :
Jan 24 23:23:42 <hwMoD> :P
Jan 24 23:23:44 <wurp2> Yes
Jan 24 23:23:53 <wurp2> Except that I still dunno a username/password
Jan 24 23:24:05 <wurp2> Could you send it boot params to start in single user mode, then reset the password?
Jan 24 23:24:14 <hwMoD> if openmoko is ubuntu based then i don't need to worry much about rtl/bidi
Jan 24 23:24:20 <hwMoD> ill dive into the wiki
Jan 24 23:24:33 <wurp2> openmoko is not ubuntu based afiak
Jan 24 23:24:47 <wurp2> It is based on some tiny linux installation
Jan 24 23:24:54 <wurp2> I don't remember the name
Jan 24 23:25:01 <raster> this is only the developer image
Jan 24 23:25:07 <wurp2> that vmx is probably an ubuntu image with a dev ... yeah, that
Jan 24 23:25:15 <wurp2> Can anyone tell me where to get this?
Jan 24 23:25:16 <raster> the idea was fore develoeprs who dont have linux or don't want to install/use it
Jan 24 23:25:26 <wurp2> It may be easier than trying to get my mokomakefile to work :-(
Jan 24 23:25:31 <wurp2> Or it may help debugging why it won't
Jan 24 23:25:40 <raster> to be able to use vmware to load a pre-built linux distro with all the development tools already installed, configured and set up to work
Jan 24 23:25:48 <wurp2> Google gave nothing for openmoko_dev.vmx
Jan 24 23:25:51 <hwMoD> raster - i want to see how openmoko handles RTL languages
Jan 24 23:25:53 <hwMoD> sec wurp
Jan 24 23:25:57 <hwMoD> i had it around here
Jan 24 23:25:57 <wurp2> thx
Jan 24 23:26:04 <raster> RTL?
Jan 24 23:26:11 <raster> ooh
Jan 24 23:26:12 <hwMoD> http://openmoko.solutiontrax.net/
Jan 24 23:26:14 <raster> worry not programming
Jan 24 23:26:15 <raster> right to left
Jan 24 23:26:29 <hwMoD> yes
Jan 24 23:26:33 <wurp2> hwMoD: thanks!
Jan 24 23:26:33 <hwMoD> hebrew, arabic, farsi
Jan 24 23:26:34 <hwMoD> the like
Jan 24 23:26:44 <raster> aaah
Jan 24 23:26:49 <raster> currently om- not sure
Jan 24 23:26:54 <raster> not sure we have all the fonts installed
Jan 24 23:26:57 <raster> by default
Jan 24 23:27:26 <hwMoD> seeing the things people do to get hebrew on the iphone
Jan 24 23:27:28 <raster> in general RTL language support overall in linux is sometimes there
Jan 24 23:27:29 <raster> sometimes not
Jan 24 23:27:38 <justin111> raster: i changed to ubuntu cuz "it just works"
Jan 24 23:27:50 <hwMoD> i have a feeling that pushing some fonts into openmoko wont be much of an issue
Jan 24 23:27:52 <raster> justin111:  and?
Jan 24 23:28:05 <raster> it works for you? no more problems?
Jan 24 23:28:08 <justin111> raster: i think im done distro shooping
Jan 24 23:28:16 <justin111> raster: happy for now
Jan 24 23:28:18 <raster> hwMoD: actually it is a problem
Jan 24 23:28:22 <hwMoD> aw :o
Jan 24 23:28:29 <raster> adding fotns for all the languagese out there is a large chunk of data
Jan 24 23:28:31 <hwMoD> what font system is used?
Jan 24 23:28:33 <hwMoD> oh
Jan 24 23:28:35 <raster> and that uses a lot of dlash space
Jan 24 23:28:35 <hwMoD> that i know
Jan 24 23:28:36 <hwMoD> i mean
Jan 24 23:28:37 <justin111> raster: until apt BLOWS UP
Jan 24 23:28:40 <raster> flash
Jan 24 23:28:44 <hwMoD> having a language pack is possible
Jan 24 23:28:53 <justin111> i dont think it will though
Jan 24 23:28:53 <raster> sure
Jan 24 23:28:58 <hwMoD> that's what i meant
Jan 24 23:29:01 <raster> in my experience so far though
Jan 24 23:29:02 <wurp2> presumably you would just have the primary language by default, then packages for your specific language
Jan 24 23:29:11 <raster> RTL langaugese have very little momentum
Jan 24 23:29:12 <justin111> i want to do a LFS 
Jan 24 23:29:22 <raster> in all my stuff i don't even support them at all in any way
Jan 24 23:29:23 <justin111> so i can learn linux
Jan 24 23:29:31 <raster> and i actually have never had a single complaint
Jan 24 23:29:38 <hwMoD> what stuff is that?
Jan 24 23:29:59 <raster> the only guys i know who speak arabic or hebrew speak./read english just as well - and they prefer english :)
Jan 24 23:30:12 <raster> so i've never had any impetus to support RTL
Jan 24 23:30:33 <raster> (other than RTL support being a righteous pain in the derriere)
Jan 24 23:30:39 <hwMoD> yeah, I think we'd all like non-program developers to also use openmoko
Jan 24 23:30:42 <raster> hwMoD: enlightenment, EFL etc.
Jan 24 23:31:06 <raster> justin111:  u can learnw ithout LFS
Jan 24 23:31:23 <raster> justin111: just dig into your existing distro bit by bit and customise lots of it
Jan 24 23:31:46 <raster> justin111: as i said - in my experience - i just dont see demand for it
Jan 24 23:31:50 <raster> again - its personal expereince
Jan 24 23:31:56 <raster> i dont see everything
Jan 24 23:32:11 <raster> but to me its an indicator of a fairly small amount of demand
Jan 24 23:32:22 <justin111> thats true but someone told me he did that with gentoo and now he has a blazing fast system 
Jan 24 23:32:32 <justin111> i mean not told me
Jan 24 23:32:38 <raster> i get much more requests for european language support and even asian languagese than RTL
Jan 24 23:32:44 <justin111> its one of my friends who did that with gentoo
Jan 24 23:32:55 <raster> sure
Jan 24 23:33:17 <raster> but frankly - when u are starting wiht linux - you probably want something that "works"
Jan 24 23:33:21 <raster> so u have less pain
Jan 24 23:33:45 <hwMoD> it's true that most people know english
Jan 24 23:33:56 <hwMoD> but when it comes to handling your address book in a foreign language on your phone
Jan 24 23:34:03 <hwMoD> sending and receiving emails and SMSes
Jan 24 23:34:16 <hwMoD> that's where you like to have your own language
Jan 24 23:34:31 <justin111> i mean as a project not as a main distro i would do it for a learning experince. i would not use my LFS distro as my main one soley for the reason of no packet managment 
Jan 24 23:34:37 <justin111> i mean 
Jan 24 23:34:42 <justin111> no online PM
Jan 24 23:35:08 <justin111> unless i built it off fedora ubuntu suse etc.
Jan 24 23:35:48 <raster> hwMoD: sure - absolutely
Jan 24 23:36:11 <raster> hwMoD: as i said - it's nice - but then you also need "Demand".
Jan 24 23:36:20 <raster> doing RETL is a complete pain in the rear
Jan 24 23:36:30 <raster> because RTL mixed with LTR is a nightmare
Jan 24 23:36:45 <raster> u have RTL text then in the middle an english word quoted - it needs to be LTR
Jan 24 23:37:15 <raster> if u have a mostly english pparagrpah with a quoted RTL word - it needs to be LTR except that RTL word
Jan 24 23:37:26 <raster> at what point do u left or right align?
Jan 24 23:37:47 <raster> also handling the layered font glyphs of arabic - where you draw 2 or 3 chars on top to make a letter it a lot of fun
Jan 24 23:37:48 <raster> :(
Jan 24 23:38:28 <hwMoD> much of that code exists
Jan 24 23:38:36 <hwMoD> i mean
Jan 24 23:38:47 <hwMoD> both gnome and kde handle RTL flawlessly
Jan 24 23:38:54 <hwMoD> hech, even windows manages it :)
Jan 24 23:38:57 <hwMoD> heck^
Jan 24 23:39:28 <hwMoD> I'm sure i can get a group of people interested in helping make this happen
Jan 24 23:39:33 <unknown_lamer> yeah but pango does it very fugly
Jan 24 23:39:44 <raster> it exists in a very very heavy backend for gtk called pango
Jan 24 23:39:58 <hwMoD> just wanted to know the current status, to see if im barging into an open door
Jan 24 23:40:02 <raster> windows code - forget that. its in windows. its not open. its irrelevant
Jan 24 23:40:07 <hwMoD> of course
Jan 24 23:40:08 <unknown_lamer> raster: haha is any part of gtk lightweight anymore?
Jan 24 23:40:11 <hwMoD> that was a joke :o
Jan 24 23:40:15 <raster> qt code is inside qt buried in its infrastructure
Jan 24 23:40:31 <raster> hwMoD: the gtk stuff should in theory handle it
Jan 24 23:40:35 <raster> to some extent
Jan 24 23:41:22 <hwMoD> that's why i want to see it in action, to see what's going on there
Jan 24 23:41:51 <unknown_lamer> copying text across rtl/ltr markers is a bitch in gtk it pretty much does not work
Jan 24 23:42:02 <raster> unknown_lamer: oh goed
Jan 24 23:42:13 <raster> don't even go there
Jan 24 23:42:19 <raster> this is why doing RTL support is so painful
Jan 24 23:42:20 <unknown_lamer> It fucking sucks that I can't just go C-SPC move the point to where I want to go and C-w it
Jan 24 23:42:28 <unknown_lamer> problem solved
Jan 24 23:42:31 <unknown_lamer> it's only a mouse issue
Jan 24 23:42:33 <ljp> hwMoD: qtopia does RTL very well
Jan 24 23:42:33 <raster> asian suporpt is so much nicer
Jan 24 23:42:49 <raster> they agreed that top to bottom sucks when everythnig in the electornics world did left to right
Jan 24 23:42:56 <raster> so they adapted and just did left to right
Jan 24 23:42:59 <raster> and everyone is happy
Jan 24 23:43:00 <raster> :)
Jan 24 23:43:14 <hwMoD> we were here first
Jan 24 23:43:20 <hwMoD> OU adapt :P
Jan 24 23:43:23 <hwMoD> YOU^ :)
Jan 24 23:44:17 <raster> :-P
Jan 24 23:44:30 <raster> the west created the computer
Jan 24 23:44:33 <raster> too late :)
Jan 24 23:44:41 <hwMoD> ;<
Jan 24 23:45:00 <ljp> use qtopia
Jan 24 23:46:21 <hwMoD> ah i got QEMU running
Jan 25 02:21:01 <RayDar> Hey guys. Anything new and nifty on the GTA01?
Jan 25 02:23:57 <RayDar> re fgau_ 
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jan 25 02:59:57 2008