**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jan 25 02:59:57 2008
Jan 25 03:08:34 <poffy> DYNAMIC ENTRY
Jan 25 03:32:30 <RayDar> talkative
Jan 25 04:48:19 <RayDar> blah blah blah
Jan 25 04:50:41 <RayDar> ping
Jan 25 04:56:03 <CIA-9> openmoko: 03werner * r3949 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/config/ (defconfig-2.6.24-rc7 defconfig-2.6.24-rc8): 
Jan 25 04:56:03 <CIA-9> openmoko: Configuring GTA02's UART for low-level messages made GTA01 hang just in that
Jan 25 04:56:03 <CIA-9> openmoko: low-level code. Also renamed the defconfig file, since we're now using rc8.
Jan 25 04:56:03 <CIA-9> openmoko: - defconfig-2.6.24-rc7: renamed to defconfig-2.6.24-rc8
Jan 25 04:56:03 <CIA-9> openmoko: - defconfig-2.6.24-rc7: set CONFIG_S3C_LOWLEVEL_UART_PORT and
Jan 25 04:56:07 <CIA-9> openmoko:  CONFIG_DEBUG_S3C_UART to 0, so that GTA01 doesn't hang (GTA02 doesn't mind
Jan 25 04:56:09 <CIA-9> openmoko:  either way)
Jan 25 05:20:16 <CIA-9> openmoko: 03werner * r3950 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/ (4 files in 2 dirs): 
Jan 25 05:20:16 <CIA-9> openmoko: - config/defconfig-2.6.24-rc8: renamed to defconfig-2.6.24
Jan 25 05:20:16 <CIA-9> openmoko: - patches/s3c2410_fb-line_length.patch, series: fix is in upstream, patch
Jan 25 05:20:16 <CIA-9> openmoko:  removed
Jan 25 05:20:58 <CIA-9> openmoko: 03werner * r3951 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/scripts/build: 
Jan 25 05:20:58 <CIA-9> openmoko: - scripts/build: upgraded to KERNEL 2.6.24 and SVN_REV 3950
Jan 25 05:20:58 <CIA-9> openmoko: - scripts/build: commented out SVN, KERNEL, and UBOOT_DIR, for they are local
Jan 25 05:20:58 <CIA-9> openmoko:  settings
Jan 25 06:12:31 <SirBob1701> is there by chance an open moko vm?
Jan 25 06:15:19 <SpeedEvil> vm?
Jan 25 06:15:29 <SpeedEvil> you can run it under qemu
Jan 25 06:52:39 <Atul_> CM, I got this error "unable to handle packet type=2" when I was trying to execute AT commands after executing 4-5 command this error raise any Idea ?
Jan 25 08:07:25 <Hopscotch> good morning
Jan 25 08:23:31 <TRIsoft> morning
Jan 25 09:15:32 <kinneh> what do you say would this keyboard be possible to use with neo http://www.targus.com/uk/product_details.asp?sku=ACB31UK ?
Jan 25 09:45:44 <torpor> okay i'm getting an EE PC .. 
Jan 25 09:46:24 <TRIsoft> torpor: Is this the cheaper version of the EEE PC ?
Jan 25 09:48:01 <torpor> no, its the EEE PC without an E .. ;)
Jan 25 09:51:05 <XorA> Es are good, Es are good
Jan 25 09:51:42 <zedstar> lol
Jan 25 09:52:14 <cjb_ie> eben-eben-ezer good?
Jan 25 09:52:37 <rwhitby> Es ebenezer good
Jan 25 09:54:11 <zedstar> remember the video of that with jerry sadowitz
Jan 25 09:54:35 <torpor> man i remember that song but i can never remember the name of that band .. 
Jan 25 09:54:57 <zedstar> the shamen
Jan 25 09:55:33 <torpor> right, thanks!
Jan 25 09:59:14 <zedstar> they dont let jerry sadowitz on tv much these days unfortunately
Jan 25 10:29:13 <hrw> kinneh: should work
Jan 25 10:30:05 <kinneh> nice since i've orderd one already :-)
Jan 25 11:14:06 <zedstar> that's cool got alerted of new SMS when i booted my Neo after an update
Jan 25 11:14:37 <mjr> oo
Jan 25 11:31:10 <florian> good morning
Jan 25 11:31:19 <smulax> morning
Jan 25 11:58:23 <develneubee> hello i am new to openmoko. i have some queries regarding gsmd. can it handle multiple clients sending AT commands thru libgsmd?
Jan 25 12:46:38 <Stephmw> hmmm, interesting gadget http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.10889
Jan 25 12:47:06 <SpeedEvil> the gps jammer?
Jan 25 12:47:40 <SpeedEvil> oh - no
Jan 25 13:17:07 <zilux> did you already try to use the Neo in a plastic bag (for avoiding humidity or so)?
Jan 25 13:17:24 <zilux> yesterday, I tried this 
Jan 25 13:18:06 <zilux> the neo was relatively hot after 40 minutes
Jan 25 13:18:42 <emdete> zilux: it gets even hotter in the neopren bag delivered with it
Jan 25 13:19:08 <zilux> some advices for avoiding this?
Jan 25 13:19:34 <zilux> 'turn down' screen?
Jan 25 13:22:17 <wibbit> zilux: submerge in water? :)
Jan 25 13:23:08 <zilux> wibbit: :-)
Jan 25 13:23:09 <FuzzyCat> more to Alaska?
Jan 25 13:23:13 <FuzzyCat> move
Jan 25 13:23:25 <zilux> at some point I would like to use it like this:
Jan 25 13:23:27 <zilux> http://www.eurotech-ltd.co.uk/en/products.aspx?pg=Zypad%20WL%201100&pp=Panel%20PCs%20/%20HMI&pc=315&pid=10116
Jan 25 13:25:37 <wibbit> zilux: looks intersting
Jan 25 13:26:00 <wibbit> zilux: where would you look to use it?
Jan 25 13:26:50 <PBeck> hi
Jan 25 13:26:59 <zilux> e.g. on a motor bike, on a shop,...
Jan 25 13:27:10 <zilux> using this; http://www.parelo.com/fiche_article.asp?id=57
Jan 25 13:28:03 <wibbit> zilux: okay, not quite the same way as the wrist thing, but interesting.
Jan 25 13:29:45 <emdete> in /etc/syslog.conf REMOTE=loghost:514 is configured. what does this do? can i somehow receive syslog messages via network? /var/log/messages sucks because it's rotated too often...
Jan 25 13:34:50 <rob_w> emdete, change that to REMOTE=YOURIP:514 and on top change from "file" to "remote" 
Jan 25 13:35:29 <emdete> rob_w: does that mean tcp or udp?
Jan 25 13:35:35 <rob_w> ud
Jan 25 13:35:37 <rob_w> udp
Jan 25 13:35:50 <emdete> thnx, will try that...
Jan 25 13:40:41 <emdete> rob_w: i assume i can catch output with nc (netcat). but this wont work - any hints?
Jan 25 13:41:01 <rob_w> catch it with your hosts syslog ! 
Jan 25 13:41:36 <rob_w> thats how its meant tobe 
Jan 25 13:42:00 <emdete> rob_w: i want to solve another problem: the file does rotate to often for a tail -f but i dont want a bigger file there. how does the buffer work? can i get continuous  logging with that?
Jan 25 13:42:14 <rob_w> but i had problems with a  host busysbox syslog to recieve properly .. so in that case i had to run real "syslog-ng" to receive 
Jan 25 13:42:44 <rob_w> BUFFERSIZE=4096                 # buffer: size of circular buffer [kByte]
Jan 25 13:43:57 <rob_w> ROTATESIZE=2048                 # file: rotate log if grown beyond X [kByte] 
Jan 25 13:43:57 <rob_w> ROTATEGENS=1                    # file: keep X generations of rotated logs
Jan 25 13:43:58 <emdete> yes. exactly. but where is this buffer?
Jan 25 13:43:58 <emdete> rob_w: do you understand what i want to achieve?
Jan 25 13:43:59 <emdete> rob_w: i just want a tail -f like output of sysylog over days...
Jan 25 13:43:59 <rob_w> you probably dont need that big BUFFERSIZE 
Jan 25 13:44:01 <rob_w> that should rotate it after growing bigger then 2 mb 
Jan 25 13:44:40 <emdete> i don't want a rotated file. it will break. sooner or later
Jan 25 13:45:05 <rob_w> well yes .. tail -f breaks his filepointer when syslogs rotates .. so make it rotate at a bigger size .. my example will rotate /var/log/messages after > 2MB 
Jan 25 13:45:30 <emdete> rob_w: that's not really a solution. it just will break later
Jan 25 13:45:35 <rob_w> set ROTATESIZE= to what you think you can carry .. 
Jan 25 13:46:05 <emdete> again: no file no rotate. i do long-time tests over days. 
Jan 25 13:46:14 <rob_w> go for 204800 that gives you a 200'MB message file .. isnt that enought ?
Jan 25 13:46:19 <emdete> no
Jan 25 13:46:24 <rob_w> damn ..
Jan 25 13:46:39 <rob_w> well go as high as you like, i dont know what is the limit here ,  
Jan 25 13:46:42 <emdete> that will eat up mem or rootfs
Jan 25 13:46:57 <emdete> as i said rotated file is no solution
Jan 25 13:47:12 <rob_w> =? 
Jan 25 13:47:22 <emdete> udp receive looks fine, but i would receive it with a command like netcat or so local on the device
Jan 25 13:47:57 <emdete> the buffer would perhaps be a solution also if i would know how to access it
Jan 25 13:48:01 <rob_w> what isthe problem ? send syslogto a network device  and tail that file there as long as you want 
Jan 25 13:48:26 <emdete> network device != file - what do you mean?
Jan 25 13:49:00 <rob_w> busybox syslog-> remote per udp -> log box with ~ disk space ! ?
Jan 25 13:49:25 <rob_w> then you never need tail but have all logs saved on your other box in /var/log/messages ?
Jan 25 13:49:58 <emdete> rob_w: there is no static 'other box'
Jan 25 13:50:18 <emdete> i connect the neo via usb, bt, gprs - network changing
Jan 25 13:51:15 <emdete> i work on the neo in a screen session. use a tail -f. if something happens i connect via ssh, attach to the screen session and use the scrollback buffer to see what happened
Jan 25 13:52:00 <emdete> tail -f on a rotated file is bad for that.
Jan 25 13:52:05 <rob_w> sure
Jan 25 13:52:29 <emdete> netcat -u -l 127.0.0.1 514 sounds nice
Jan 25 13:52:36 <emdete> but does not work :/
Jan 25 13:52:54 <emdete> so: how does the buffer work? where is it? i assume in mem? how do i access it?
Jan 25 13:57:54 <rob_w> emdete, no idea .. i think your netcat approach must be best try to get this working
Jan 25 13:58:56 <rob_w> or run syslog in foreground ! 
Jan 25 13:59:02 <emdete> :D
Jan 25 14:00:57 <emdete> shit, syslogd's init.d can't restart
Jan 25 14:02:59 <emdete> --oknodo on stop missing... should be the default...
Jan 25 14:20:38 <conceited> hello
Jan 25 14:23:09 <smulax> hi
Jan 25 14:26:09 <Ghiottone> Hola mokoers
Jan 25 14:31:01 <kristian-m> hi Ghiottone :)
Jan 25 14:31:59 <Ghiottone> hey kristian-m !
Jan 25 14:32:03 <Ghiottone> long time no see
Jan 25 14:32:10 <Ghiottone> how's life?
Jan 25 14:32:17 <conceited> hi smulax 
Jan 25 14:32:24 <kristian-m> Ghiottone great
Jan 25 14:32:34 <kristian-m> Ghiottone just in the middle of my thesis
Jan 25 14:32:35 * conceited yawns
Jan 25 14:32:58 <Ghiottone> kristian-m, great!
Jan 25 14:34:52 <Ghiottone> kristian-m, how is it going?
Jan 25 14:34:54 <kristian-m> Ghiottone there is a new version of settingsgui comming up - mickey has put a beta version into the oe repository
Jan 25 14:35:14 <conceited> what does oe stand for?
Jan 25 14:35:24 <conceited> in the community
Jan 25 14:35:30 <kristian-m> Ghiottone well i've got a lot of code to write :-)
Jan 25 14:35:31 * conceited is new to the openmako community
Jan 25 14:35:56 <Ghiottone> conceited, oe stands for Open Embedded
Jan 25 14:36:01 <kristian-m> conceited its openembedded
Jan 25 14:36:05 <kristian-m> right
Jan 25 14:36:32 <Ghiottone> kristian-m, what is your thesis about? I can only remember it was about something on openmoko.
Jan 25 14:37:21 <conceited> oh ok
Jan 25 14:38:44 <kristian-m> Ghiottone it's generally on mobile devices with linux - i wanted to keep it open for ideas - currently i am concentrating on openmoko, but there are a lot of fundamental thigs to be written down for about 60% of the thesis, i guess - still have to write. - then I'll introduce some of the projects i wrote, as examples for how to access different parts of the system
Jan 25 14:39:11 <kristian-m> Ghiottone i am currently concentration on bluetooth
Jan 25 14:45:23 <Ghiottone> kristian-m, but what are writing, exactly? is it some sort of framework?
Jan 25 14:45:39 <Ghiottone> s/sort/kind/
Jan 25 14:45:39 <apt> Ghiottone meant: kristian-m, but what are writing, exactly? is it some kind of framework?
Jan 25 14:47:19 <Sup3rkiddo> howdy all
Jan 25 14:49:10 <kristian-m> Ghiottone an other page for the settings gui, currently
Jan 25 14:50:19 <Ghiottone> oh eheh :)
Jan 25 14:51:48 <kristian-m> Ghiottone there is a screenshot on that at: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/6bb82ec6aae8b57a828037062eb5b782.png
Jan 25 14:53:16 <CIA-9> openmoko: 03chris * r3952 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (4 files in 2 dirs): 
Jan 25 14:53:16 <CIA-9> openmoko: * src/today-main.c: (bg_child_expose_cb), (reduced_notify), (main):
Jan 25 14:53:16 <CIA-9> openmoko: * src/today-pim-journal.c: (today_pim_journal_box_new):
Jan 25 14:53:16 <CIA-9> openmoko: * src/today.h:
Jan 25 14:53:16 <CIA-9> openmoko: Add a 'reduced' mode (controlled by /desktop/poky/interface/reduced)
Jan 25 14:53:35 <wibbit> kristian-m: Not sure if you're a good person to aim this comment at (possible should be for mickey), but I'd say the bit that says "name, Address, Link" look like tabs as opposed to columns
Jan 25 14:54:57 <kristian-m> wibbit right - it's a gtk thing - but it olls better ones something is selected
Jan 25 14:55:31 <CIA-9> openmoko: 03chris * r3953 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-launcher/: Remove openmoko-launcher, superceded by openmoko-today2's 'reduced' mode
Jan 25 14:55:37 <Ghiottone> kristian-m, the screenshot looks really good!
Jan 25 14:56:22 <kristian-m> Ghiottone thanks, and it's kind of working already - have to find some time to fix the last issues
Jan 25 14:57:04 <wibbit> kristian-m: I do agree it looks very nice :\
Jan 25 14:57:28 <wibbit> kristian-m: I have a horrible habbit of providing negative feedback as opposed to positive, unfortunately
Jan 25 14:59:46 <CIA-9> openmoko: 03mickey * r3954 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.22.x/: copy kernel/2.6.22.x branch from trunk
Jan 25 15:02:08 <kristian-m> wibbit it's okay, more of that! :-)
Jan 25 15:02:31 <kristian-m> wibbit feedback can never be bad
Jan 25 15:03:00 <wibbit> kristian-m: My other half would quite passionately disagree with you on that :)
Jan 25 15:11:05 <kristian-m> wibbit ;)
Jan 25 15:53:03 <Ebbe> Does anyone know if java ME has been run on the phone? I would really want to try somethings with it
Jan 25 15:54:50 <Stephmw> Ebbe: iirc there's a .bb for it in OE, I haven't tried it
Jan 25 15:55:54 <Ebbe> Stephmw: I'll look it up, thanks
Jan 25 16:03:40 <FuzzyCat> mmm.. is noone else having audio issues?
Jan 25 16:03:55 <FuzzyCat> or iseveryone just pretending they can hear stuff 
Jan 25 16:12:01 <Ebbe> FuzzyCat: Audio is fine here. Not pretending
Jan 25 16:12:14 <FuzzyCat> how old is your kernel?
Jan 25 16:13:46 * mwester hears voices all the time....   he presumes the ones he hears when he places the neo to his ear are *real* voices, though.
Jan 25 16:14:04 <cjb_ie> mwester: nah, those are digitised voices. sorry :)
Jan 25 16:14:12 <Ebbe> FuzzyCat: It's from the last few days
Jan 25 16:14:30 <FuzzyCat> 2.6.22.5-moko11 ?
Jan 25 16:14:53 <Genesis> yp
Jan 25 16:15:04 <Ebbe> Yep
Jan 25 16:15:13 <FuzzyCat> where from
Jan 25 16:15:14 <FuzzyCat> ?
Jan 25 16:15:27 <Ebbe> http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/?M=D
Jan 25 16:15:34 <FuzzyCat> :/
Jan 25 16:15:41 <FuzzyCat> that's mine :)
Jan 25 16:15:46 <Ebbe> :)
Jan 25 16:16:02 <FuzzyCat> but I'm not sure if that means my neo hardware in buggered
Jan 25 16:16:26 <FuzzyCat> can you lsmod for me and put it in pastebin.ca
Jan 25 16:16:43 <Ebbe> One sec
Jan 25 16:17:17 <Genesis> is author of kboot on irc sometime ?
Jan 25 16:17:26 <Genesis> (Werner Almesberger)
Jan 25 16:17:49 <mickey|zzZZzz> not in public channels, he's too busy to engage in chats (unlike us... heh)
Jan 25 16:17:57 <mickey|zzZZzz> write him a mail
Jan 25 16:17:59 <mickey|zzZZzz> that's easiest
Jan 25 16:18:08 <Ebbe> FuzzyCat: http://pastebin.ca/872166
Jan 25 16:18:09 <Genesis> sure
Jan 25 16:18:15 <Genesis> i was curious :)
Jan 25 16:18:21 <FuzzyCat> ta
Jan 25 16:19:09 <Genesis> i'd like to use his kboot to boot from usbkey to mtd ( don't ask why i've a such electronic design :/ )
Jan 25 16:19:09 <FuzzyCat> hrrm
Jan 25 16:21:13 <Genesis> compulab has poor design , never buy something to them :/
Jan 25 16:21:42 <Ebbe> But I really like how things a going right now, I can sms and call. That's nice :)
Jan 25 16:25:40 <kdean06> Ebbe, Are you running "default" builds?'
Jan 25 16:26:59 <Ebbe> kdean06: I'm using FuzzyCats normal builds
Jan 25 16:27:35 <Ebbe> kdean06: And then ipkg update and upgrade :)
Jan 25 16:28:40 <kdean06> Is FuzzyCat Scaredycat?
Jan 25 16:28:44 <FuzzyCat> yes
Jan 25 16:29:02 <kdean06> lol
Jan 25 16:29:04 <kdean06> Okay.
Jan 25 16:29:15 <FuzzyCat> different machine
Jan 25 16:29:41 <FuzzyCat> I don;t get it... 
Jan 25 16:29:51 <FuzzyCat> ...
Jan 25 16:29:57 <FuzzyCat> what image are you using Ebbe?
Jan 25 16:30:23 <Ebbe> It's quite old..
Jan 25 16:30:40 <FuzzyCat> ok, so you haven't tried a newer one then...
Jan 25 16:30:45 <Ebbe> I think from december
Jan 25 16:30:52 <Ebbe> Nope
Jan 25 16:31:07 <FuzzyCat> afaik audio was ok at about 07th December, after that it nolonger works for me
Jan 25 16:31:33 <FuzzyCat> i'm getting symbol errors on the modprobe...
Jan 25 16:34:08 <kdean06> As in no audio at all, or skipping or other audio blemishes?
Jan 25 16:34:38 <kdean06> I've never used a build that didn't have functional audio, and I've never installed a pre-07 Dec build.
Jan 25 16:34:48 <kdean06> Including some of yours, actually.
Jan 25 16:35:15 <FuzzyCat>   nothing
Jan 25 16:35:20 <FuzzyCat> nada
Jan 25 16:35:27 <kdean06> So let me wipe qtopia and try today's image. :)
Jan 25 16:35:44 <FuzzyCat> modprobe of the wm modile fails
Jan 25 16:35:55 <kdean06> I can say for sure all of my audio issues are because pulseaudio currently sucks.
Jan 25 16:37:51 <kdean06> Might as well grab some screenshots for Dialer dissection too.
Jan 25 16:39:08 <zilux> FuzzyCat: as noticed previously, copy the missing audio module to your rootfs
Jan 25 16:39:21 <FuzzyCat> it's not missing
Jan 25 16:39:39 <zilux> was missing here
Jan 25 16:39:49 <zilux> ok
Jan 25 16:40:41 <jmichel> Does somebody know how to change syslog parameters to log a lowe rlevel of messages ?
Jan 25 16:41:11 <jmichel> Currently the Moko seems to only log warnings and over
Jan 25 16:49:42 <FuzzyCat> ok. ....
Jan 25 16:49:46 <FuzzyCat> found the issue
Jan 25 16:50:28 <FuzzyCat> rev 3874 of uImage is a bag-o-shite
Jan 25 16:50:46 <mwester> FuzzyCat?   Scaredycat has a static electricity problem in his home today?
Jan 25 16:52:14 <Ebbe> FuzzyCat: Thats what I'm using..
Jan 25 16:52:22 <FuzzyCat> 3874?
Jan 25 16:52:27 <Ebbe> Yep
Jan 25 16:52:41 <zilux> two distinct cats
Jan 25 16:53:23 <FuzzyCat> mwester: no I'm just uising s different pc
Jan 25 16:54:01 <Ebbe> You have S different pc's? Wow ;)
Jan 25 16:55:19 * FuzzyCat stabs Ebbe with the pointy bit of a W
Jan 25 16:57:00 <FuzzyCat> kdean06: loopymusic all 'wobbly' ?
Jan 25 17:03:21 <jmichel> Now I see, the Moko is logging everything but in a small buffer
Jan 25 17:03:32 <jmichel> so the data is overwritten very rapidly
Jan 25 17:03:50 <balrog-kun> do you mean the dmesg?
Jan 25 17:04:23 <balrog-kun> dmesg is a circular buffer by design, it's not Moko
Jan 25 17:04:48 <balrog-kun> you can increase the buffer size in Linux, using the "dmesg" command
Jan 25 17:10:55 <cworth> So I haven't touched my phone in a few months, and I'm guessing it's due for a reflash with the latest images.
Jan 25 17:11:15 <cworth> Only, I'm not finding it obvious to find where and what those are. Any guidance?
Jan 25 17:11:40 <balrog-kun> buildhost.om.o/daily i think
Jan 25 17:11:41 <cworth> The Flashing_openmoko page does point to:
Jan 25 17:11:47 <cworth> http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/?M=D
Jan 25 17:12:02 <balrog-kun> that would work too, probably
Jan 25 17:12:06 <cworth> And that does have some recent files in it, but I can't make sense of which is what.
Jan 25 17:12:09 <br3n> i don't know but have seen others refing this page http://downloads.openmoko.org/
Jan 25 17:12:30 <balrog-kun> buildhost.om.o/daily keeps the official builds afaik
Jan 25 17:13:37 <cworth> balrog-kun: What am I looking for under daily?
Jan 25 17:14:02 <cworth> http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/
Jan 25 17:14:05 <cworth> I suppose.
Jan 25 17:14:21 <balrog-kun> yep, that should be it
Jan 25 17:14:59 <cworth> At least there's only one matching rootfs.jffs2 once I get there. Thanks.
Jan 25 17:18:02 <cworth> Oh, but there is also devel-image*.jffs2 so I'm confused again.
Jan 25 17:18:57 * cworth won't even guess what lowlevel_foo is...
Jan 25 17:20:43 <cworth> Err... I guess both say devel-image. The two are:
Jan 25 17:20:53 <cworth> openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01.jffs2    
Jan 25 17:20:54 <cworth> and:
Jan 25 17:21:09 <cworth> OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080125-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2   
Jan 25 17:21:21 <cworth> Maybe those are actually the same file?
Jan 25 17:22:14 <mmontour> cworth: the short name is a symlink to the most recent image
Jan 25 17:22:18 <cworth> Yes, they are. OK.
Jan 25 17:24:04 <wurp2> Is there an image for which the phone consistently works, even if you're listening to music on earplugs, for example?
Jan 25 17:24:16 <wurp2> (I mean, you get a call while listening)
Jan 25 17:53:41 <PBeck> re
Jan 25 19:04:28 <SpeedEvil> whaat's the current BT state?
Jan 25 19:07:42 <SpeedEvil> i.e. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_Bluetooth#Headset_Audio IS STILL ACCURATE?
Jan 25 19:14:10 <ScaredyCat> parp
Jan 25 19:27:49 <kdean06> Whoa, SMS actually works. :)
Jan 25 19:27:59 <kdean06> That's a bit unintuitive, but it works.
Jan 25 20:05:55 <wurp2> kdean06: re: SMS - what image, if I may ask?
Jan 25 20:06:25 <kdean06> wurp2, ScardyCat's from today with an older kernel. Allow me to get the exact version.
Jan 25 20:06:39 <wurp2> cool!
Jan 25 20:06:55 <wurp2> Can you answer phone calls while listening to music? :-)
Jan 25 20:07:10 <wurp2> I mean, obviously ideally you're not listening to music at the same time...
Jan 25 20:07:42 <kdean06> I don't know. :P
Jan 25 20:08:38 <wurp2> :-)
Jan 25 20:08:47 <wurp2> I may be turning to QTopia :-/
Jan 25 20:08:59 <wurp2> I basically can't use the phone part
Jan 25 20:09:10 <wurp2> I would really really miss my terminal, though
Jan 25 20:09:15 <kdean06> I've been using qtopia because of the lack of SMS.
Jan 25 20:09:19 <kdean06> But it works now. :)
Jan 25 20:09:29 <kdean06> That said...
Jan 25 20:09:53 <kdean06> The last Moko images i really used couldn't even play music by itself, so the answer calls with music thing was moot.
Jan 25 20:10:14 <kdean06> Media Player running an MP3 cause Pulse to eat so much CPU it skipped every 4 or 5 seconds.
Jan 25 20:10:20 <wurp2> Interestingly, I've been listening to music all day with no pauses
Jan 25 20:10:37 <wurp2> The only other notable thing is that app selection from the upper left corner isn't working
Jan 25 20:10:57 <wurp2> Is there gps support on QTopia?
Jan 25 20:11:09 <wurp2> (apologies, I haven't checked into this stuff on my own at all really)
Jan 25 20:11:22 <wurp2> I ran a qtopia image for a bit, but felt handicapped w/ no term
Jan 25 20:11:22 <kdean06> Perhaps that has been fixed, this is my first time actually evaluating non-basic functions though... I can't keep anything on the Neo for longer than about 3 hours that doesn't do SMS and phone calls.
Jan 25 20:11:35 <wurp2> heh
Jan 25 20:11:39 <wurp2> I still have my old phone
Jan 25 20:11:48 <wurp2> but it sits on my desk at home w/no SIM
Jan 25 20:12:11 <kdean06> My old phone broke several months prior to getting my Neo. If it wasn't, my wife might have killed me for purchasing a half-functional phone for $300.
Jan 25 20:12:17 <wurp2> OK, 2 stupid questions
Jan 25 20:12:18 <wurp2> heh
Jan 25 20:12:27 <wurp2> how do I see the process name in top?
Jan 25 20:13:01 <wurp2> and is there some .*rc that would run automatically from / when I log into term?
Jan 25 20:13:18 <wurp2> in fact
Jan 25 20:13:38 <wurp2> I am listening to music right now through media player (and hence presumably pulseaudio)
Jan 25 20:13:49 <wurp2> and my cpu is maxing out at 39%, per top
Jan 25 20:14:26 <wurp2> I do hear very slight pauses, rarely
Jan 25 20:14:29 <br3n> mnnn how many hrs battery like that..... :-)
Jan 25 20:14:55 <wurp2> sideways 8
Jan 25 20:14:57 <kdean06> Swapping screen orientation doesn't help too much. :P
Jan 25 20:15:03 <wurp2> I'm plugged into my pc ;-)
Jan 25 20:15:08 <wurp2> kdean06: nope :-(
Jan 25 20:15:17 <wurp2> I'm sure there's some magic key I can press
Jan 25 20:15:19 <wurp2> or parms I can give
Jan 25 20:15:29 <kdean06> ssh -l root 192.168.0.202 :)
Jan 25 20:15:30 <wurp2> but the default top layout on neo is not much use
Jan 25 20:15:35 <wurp2> heh
Jan 25 20:15:43 <wurp2> I have had 'issues' with windows networking
Jan 25 20:15:45 <kdean06> No, I agree. top on the Moko term is useless. :)
Jan 25 20:15:54 <wurp2> not least of which is that I don't want to install that stuff on my work pc
Jan 25 20:16:03 <kdean06> wurp2, The bugfix for those issues has already been released.
Jan 25 20:16:27 <kdean06> wurp2, You can download one of a thousand variations of the fix from http://www.distrowatch.com
Jan 25 20:16:30 <kdean06> :0
Jan 25 20:16:40 <wurp2> can you cut-n-paste 'those issues' from earlier convo?
Jan 25 20:16:45 <wurp2> 'cause I dunno what you mean
Jan 25 20:16:53 <wurp2> but much thanks for the link :-)
Jan 25 20:17:02 <kdean06> I was being a wiseass. Or trying, anyway.
Jan 25 20:17:10 <wurp2> ah, cool
Jan 25 20:17:26 <wurp2> sorry I was too much of a dumbass ;-)
Jan 25 20:18:51 <wurp2> If someone can check cpu usage on their neo while playing mp3s...
Jan 25 20:18:57 <wurp2> Right now mine is at 39% max
Jan 25 20:19:06 <wurp2> (using media player)
Jan 25 20:19:11 <Sp33d3v1l3r> depends on the bitrate somewhat and software lots
Jan 25 20:19:21 <wurp2> which I think is way lower than what I've seen reported
Jan 25 20:19:39 <Sp33d3v1l3r> it's somewhere at 18% with the optimised version of mplayer 
Jan 25 20:19:40 <wurp2> Sp33d3v1l3r: by software, you mean which player & audio stack?
Jan 25 20:19:41 <Sp33d3v1l3r> IIRC
Jan 25 20:19:44 <Sp33d3v1l3r> yes
Jan 25 20:20:12 <wurp2> Sp33d3v1l3r: yeah, that's why I mentioned the media player - presumably that means pulseaudio
Jan 25 20:21:07 <wurp2> I just have some sw that's busted on my neo right now, and if there's some interaction issue with pulseaudio and other software I thought I should capture it
Jan 25 20:21:21 <wurp2> but I dunno for sure what cpu usage to expect from media player
Jan 25 20:21:43 <wurp2> I just remember someone talking about it (really pulseaudio) being cpu-bound
Jan 25 20:21:50 <wurp2> and 39% doesn't sound bound
Jan 25 20:22:03 <SpeedEvil> what % is it using2A?
Jan 25 20:23:42 <apaulsen> is it possible to pass an option (-l  or  --ignore-whitespace) to patch?  It keeps choking on a whitespace change
Jan 25 20:24:15 <wurp2> Total cpu usage is 39%
Jan 25 20:24:25 <apaulsen> ...sorry, wrong window
Jan 25 20:24:27 <wurp2> Dunno media/pulse usage
Jan 25 20:24:44 <wurp2> can't see which app is which in top :-/
Jan 25 20:25:01 <wurp2> and I'm too lazy to capture the pids and grep ps for 'em
Jan 25 20:25:57 <wurp2> is there some .*rc that would run automatically from / when I log into the terminal?
Jan 25 20:26:09 <wurp2> I've tried .shrc, .ashrc, .bashrc
Jan 25 20:26:11 <Linux_Galore> heh http://mail.google.com/mail/help/paper/more.html
Jan 25 20:26:25 * Linux_Galore waves
Jan 25 20:28:09 <wurp2> Linux_Galore: howdy
Jan 25 20:33:19 <quicksand> I'm having pretty good success with the media player and pulseaudio (and my new 8GiB MicroSDHC, woo!) -- provided I renice both the player and pulseaudio to -10.
Jan 25 20:33:26 <quicksand> Otherwise it skips all the time.
Jan 25 20:34:30 <wurp2> quicksand: simple, excellent, idea
Jan 25 20:34:41 <wurp2> quicksand: How much for the SDHC?
Jan 25 20:34:48 <kdean06> $89 on Amazon. :)
Jan 25 20:34:52 <wurp2> :-/
Jan 25 20:35:01 <wurp2> I'll wait until I run out of space on my 2 gig
Jan 25 20:35:15 <wurp2> $89 is not bad
Jan 25 20:35:17 <wurp2> but I'm cheap
Jan 25 20:35:20 <quicksand> US$99 -- it came with a (tiny!) reader too
Jan 25 20:35:25 <kdean06> I've been eyeing them since they've dropped but I'd rather get a filter and a new kettle first. :)
Jan 25 20:35:34 <wurp2> Yeah, it's funny how they come now
Jan 25 20:35:48 <wurp2> Mine is a russian doll
Jan 25 20:36:05 <wurp2> came with the micro, an SD adapter, and a usb adapter that the SD adapter can go in
Jan 25 20:37:58 <wurp2> quicksand: Have you had any side effects from your renice?
Jan 25 20:39:06 <quicksand> Anyhow, I have a script that runs the player and immediately renices it and PA, and I pointed the default .desktop launcher for the media player to the script.
Jan 25 20:39:11 <quicksand> Works fine, but other stuff is somewhat less responsive.
Jan 25 20:39:14 <quicksand> While music is playing
Jan 25 20:39:45 <Vegar> I wonder why pulseaudio is used
Jan 25 20:39:48 <br3n> does it renice again when a call is received?
Jan 25 20:39:54 <Vegar> wouldn't it be possible to use alsa and dmix?
Jan 25 20:40:19 <quicksand> br3n: Heh, no.  Not that sophisticated.
Jan 25 20:40:28 <wurp2> quicksand: Thanks
Jan 25 20:42:44 <wurp2> br3n: Can you answer calls while listening to music?
Jan 25 20:42:50 <wurp2> 'cause that doesn't work for me
Jan 25 20:42:59 <wurp2> my build is like 3 weeks old now, though
Jan 25 20:43:00 <quicksand> Vegar: dunno.
Jan 25 20:43:20 <br3n> i don't even have a neo   ;-)  !!!! (Yet)
Jan 25 20:43:25 <wurp2> br3n: heh
Jan 25 20:43:30 <quicksand> Pulse certainly has a lot of capabilities that we don't really need on this platform (synchronized net playback, etc.)
Jan 25 20:43:42 <quicksand> But maybe there's something about its buffering that is useful.
Jan 25 20:44:16 <SpeedEvil> We 'need' all sorts of funky audio capabilities in the far term.
Jan 25 20:44:27 <SpeedEvil> (where far term = consumer polished)
Jan 25 20:45:02 <SpeedEvil> For example, voice transcoding, mp3 playing while recording incoming call in answerphone mode,...
Jan 25 20:45:24 <Vegar> doesn't dmix do that?
Jan 25 20:45:43 <Vegar> and the dmix-like thing for input
Jan 25 20:46:07 <kdean06> SpeedEvil, Honest opinion... Do you beleive that the GTA01vb4 will be capable of doing all of those things? 
Jan 25 20:46:46 <quicksand> It's true that a pulse BT a2dp sink, for example, would be nice (and maybe there is one already).  That kind of thing is easier with pulse I think.
Jan 25 20:47:36 <wurp2> kdean06: Ever is a long time..
Jan 25 20:48:22 <wurp2> I'm more concerned about what it will do in the next 3 months, 6 months, 1-3 years
Jan 25 20:48:33 <SpeedEvil> kdean06: sure
Jan 25 20:48:38 <wurp2> 3 years is about my device lifespan, before I get ready to buy another
Jan 25 20:48:39 <SpeedEvil> kdean06: it's got all the hardware
Jan 25 20:48:48 <kdean06> I'm not asking about the features, I'm asking about the hardware. For instance, PA is in there for all of those things he mentioned, but if the processor couldn't handle those things then putting the framework in there for it would really really suck for GTA01 users.
Jan 25 20:48:57 <SpeedEvil> It can
Jan 25 20:49:05 <kdean06> Cool, SpeedEvil. :) You got what I meant.
Jan 25 20:49:09 <wurp2> Those things all look possible
Jan 25 20:49:14 <SpeedEvil> audio recording - PCM - is almost free
Jan 25 20:49:18 <wurp2> although transcoding is prolly not going to be realtime
Jan 25 20:49:24 <wurp2> depending on the exact coding you're doing
Jan 25 20:49:26 <SpeedEvil> Simple voice changing is really easy
Jan 25 20:49:44 <SpeedEvil> I've done 8Khz telephone quality on a Z80
Jan 25 20:50:13 <SpeedEvil> (400Khz or so clock 8 bit)
Jan 25 20:50:22 <SpeedEvil> s/clock/instruction rate/
Jan 25 20:50:23 <apt> SpeedEvil meant: (400Khz or so instruction rate 8 bit)
Jan 25 20:50:33 <kdean06> So the general idea is (with the exception of the missing hardware, IE rotate-on-tilt or Wifi) that the software platform is equal or close enough to not matter. Good to know.
Jan 25 20:50:45 <SpeedEvil> Pretty much
Jan 25 20:50:54 <kdean06> I'd be happy with basic noise cancellation ratehr than recording. :)
Jan 25 20:51:04 <kdean06> Well, no, I'm happy now that I've got SMS. :)
Jan 25 20:52:39 <wurp2> I'll be happy when I can make & answer calls consistently
Jan 25 20:52:46 <wurp2> SMS would be nice
Jan 25 20:53:15 <wurp2> although I'm probably more likely to use SMS from software than manually
Jan 25 20:54:35 <kdean06> "From software" meaning a GUI?
Jan 25 20:54:39 <kdean06> Cause that's there.
Jan 25 20:54:48 <kdean06> Or.. It should be.
Jan 25 20:55:47 <kdean06> Incoming SMS works, confirmed. :)
Jan 25 20:55:56 <wurp2> No, I mean automaed
Jan 25 20:56:00 <wurp2> *automated
Jan 25 20:56:19 <wurp2> e.g., a cheaper way to do some network stuff, using a bridge on my home PC
Jan 25 20:56:55 <wurp2> (cheaper than gprs, and with the added advantage that so far gprs is a no go for me)
Jan 25 20:57:14 <kdean06> Hrm..
Jan 25 20:57:42 <kdean06> Forgive a stupid question but... Does SMS use GRPS?
Jan 25 20:57:59 <wurp2> nope
Jan 25 20:58:17 <wurp2> I'm almost certain it's a totally different protocol...
Jan 25 20:58:20 <kdean06> Okay, I was going to say...
Jan 25 20:58:28 <kdean06> GRPS fails for me, but SMS works. :)
Jan 25 20:58:42 <wurp2> The billing model is different too
Jan 25 20:58:58 <kdean06> Not for me.
Jan 25 20:59:02 <wurp2> But honestly I'm not entirely sure how it's different, especially for me
Jan 25 20:59:12 <wurp2> because I am pre-pay with no contract
Jan 25 20:59:32 <kdean06> Wife confirmed outgoing SMS works too. NICE.
Jan 25 20:59:37 <wurp2> Cool!!
Jan 25 20:59:39 <kdean06> I'm in debted to ScardyCat.
Jan 25 20:59:39 <br3n> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gprs
Jan 25 20:59:40 <wurp2> congrats
Jan 25 20:59:52 <wurp2> br3n: Yeah, did that
Jan 25 20:59:58 <wurp2> didn't work
Jan 25 21:00:18 <wurp2> Either I need pppd scripts, or I did something wrong, or I'm incompatible in some other way
Jan 25 21:00:48 <kdean06> Yeah, I'm not sure what's happening there either, my T-Mobile GPRS fails and it seems well documented.
Jan 25 21:01:19 <zash_> sms over gprs would be cheap
Jan 25 21:02:02 <zedstar> any light weight messaging over gprs would be ok and cheap
Jan 25 21:02:04 <wurp2> zash_: I'm not sure what my gprs billing model is
Jan 25 21:02:26 <wurp2> I guess it's more that I'm more comfortable with the sms billing, than it being cheaper...
Jan 25 21:02:43 <SpeedEvil> For me - it's 0.7p/k but capped at 1 pound/day, so 0.2p/text or so
Jan 25 21:02:56 <wurp2> and I know my old phone had just stupid charges for download
Jan 25 21:02:56 <SpeedEvil> And free after 500/day
Jan 25 21:02:57 <wurp2> s
Jan 25 21:03:21 <wurp2> SpeedEvil: but do they really let you xfer all the data you want?
Jan 25 21:03:29 <SpeedEvil> yes
Jan 25 21:03:55 <SpeedEvil> Or there is a figure that they say not to go over which I don't remember.
Jan 25 21:04:10 <SpeedEvil> But it's seeverall hours a day saturating the link
Jan 25 21:04:16 <zedstar> it took a long time coming the operator 1 pound cap but is good
Jan 25 21:04:26 <SpeedEvil> t-mobile PAYG
Jan 25 21:04:44 <zedstar> can at least test stuff over gprs now without a contract
Jan 25 21:04:58 <kdean06> For me it's $19 a month for all I can download on mine or my wife's phone.
Jan 25 21:05:00 <SpeedEvil> Means that I can do tiny amounts of data not too badly, pay nothing on the days I don't use data, and only 1 quid a day nomatter how hard I use it
Jan 25 21:05:21 <SpeedEvil> kdean06: is that on an existinc contract?
Jan 25 21:05:26 <kdean06> The perks of working with a "good" company and reneweing year after year.
Jan 25 21:05:29 <kdean06> Yes.
Jan 25 21:05:37 <kdean06> SpeedEvil, I've been with T-Mobile for many many years.
Jan 25 21:06:01 <SpeedEvil> kdean06: ah - this is without contract. Last month I paid 1.50 total for about 20M of data, as I only used it one day
Jan 25 21:06:15 <unknown_lamer> ouch if I didn;t have t-mo flat rate I would die
Jan 25 21:06:26 <unknown_lamer> that flat rate is the only reason I can be a wandering programmer
Jan 25 21:06:30 * zedstar hates contracts
Jan 25 21:06:31 <darmou> can you use openmoko browser
Jan 25 21:06:39 <SpeedEvil> Yes.
Jan 25 21:06:40 <darmou> on angtrom
Jan 25 21:06:45 <wurp2> wow, that's really nice
Jan 25 21:06:57 <wurp2> I dunno if that kind of contract is available in the US
Jan 25 21:06:58 <kdean06> I don't mind contracts as long as they don't suck.
Jan 25 21:07:11 <kdean06> Sprint sucked. Verizons sucks. Cingular sucked. T-Mobile was nice. :)
Jan 25 21:07:18 <unknown_lamer> even when you are out of contract you are de facto in one because you can't really switch to another provider without being enslaved again
Jan 25 21:08:07 <wurp2> ??
Jan 25 21:08:33 <wurp2> that makes no sense - w/o a contract, I can switch providers.  w/o one, I pay a penalty to do so
Jan 25 21:08:36 <SpeedEvil> My major annoyance with the UK 3G market is that there is no way to get a (sensibly priced) data contract
Jan 25 21:08:37 <darmou> openmoko-browser2: symbol lookup error: openmoko-browser2: undefined symbol: webkit_init
Jan 25 21:08:40 <darmou> hmm
Jan 25 21:08:40 <SpeedEvil> without hardware.
Jan 25 21:08:57 <zedstar> yeh speedevil....i actually dont want voice
Jan 25 21:09:03 <wurp2> s/w\/o one/w\/ one/
Jan 25 21:09:13 <zedstar> or 1000000 text
Jan 25 21:10:02 <zedstar> speedevil are u on the mobile monday mailing list? good industry stuff on that
Jan 25 21:12:06 <SpeedEvil> No.
Jan 25 21:12:29 <SpeedEvil> Too many ml's too little time
Jan 25 21:12:44 <zedstar> is good a lot of people bitching about the teleco;s and lot of industry read it
Jan 25 21:12:59 <SpeedEvil> uk.telecom.mobile is of use
Jan 25 21:13:50 <zedstar> yeh usenet rocks
Jan 25 21:13:54 <br3n> http://cgi.ebay.com/Fic-Neo1973-Linux-Smartphone-for-developers_W0QQitemZ110216704241QQihZ001QQcategoryZ3312QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p1638.m122
Jan 25 21:15:36 <kristian-m> br3n do you sell it?
Jan 25 21:15:47 <br3n> not me just saw it
Jan 25 21:16:12 <br3n> its gta1bv4
Jan 25 21:16:28 <kristian-m> i see
Jan 25 21:18:58 <zedstar> good price!
Jan 25 21:19:14 <SpeedEvil> I don't see anything especially inaccurate
Jan 25 21:19:19 <SpeedEvil> (in the listing)
Jan 25 21:19:26 <SpeedEvil> It could of course be more complete.
Jan 25 21:23:25 <kdean06> Hrm...
Jan 25 21:24:18 <kdean06> Oh...
Jan 25 21:24:21 <kdean06> Been meaning to ask.
Jan 25 21:24:37 <kdean06> Is it possible to buy Neo accessories? Like, say, spare batteries?
Jan 25 21:25:37 <kdean06> I know I could have bought an Advance kit, but I didn't think I needed the debug board so I couldn't justify the cost. That was before I knew the battery died in 3.5 hours. :P
Jan 25 21:26:42 <zash_> usb-to-serial adapters should work with neo and om?
Jan 25 21:27:49 <zedstar> a specific nokia battery should work as a spare
Jan 25 21:28:24 <kristian-m> kdean06 you can buy a nokia BL-5C - but it won't charge in the neo1973
Jan 25 21:29:23 <kdean06> Yeah, not sure that helps but I'll keep that in mind. :)
Jan 25 21:29:24 <kristian-m> zash_ nop, it's not working - the usb-on-the-go port ist not powering devices, you'd need a powered hub there
Jan 25 21:29:56 <zash_> didnt the gta02 have powerd usb?
Jan 25 21:30:42 <kristian-m> kdean06 see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Battery
Jan 25 21:31:12 <kristian-m> zash_ afaik it has a powered port
Jan 25 21:32:36 <wurp2> I want a good hip clip
Jan 25 21:32:42 <wurp2> the bag leaves much to be desired
Jan 25 21:33:02 <ScaredyCat> I'll sell you my spare battery for 180 gbp :)
Jan 25 21:33:03 <wurp2> preferably a hip clip that can double as a stand, so I can set up my neo & whip out the bluetooth kbd
Jan 25 21:33:25 <zash_> wurp2: design your own case
Jan 25 21:33:28 <wurp2> I'll sell you my only battery for 180 gpb...
Jan 25 21:33:41 <kdean06> lol
Jan 25 21:33:42 <wurp2> zash_: I don't have a fab machine
Jan 25 21:34:33 <wurp2> If I was willing to trash the look, I could superglue something on the back of the neo, I guess :-/
Jan 25 21:35:16 <wurp2> If I could get a spare back I would totally do that... if I were confident that the neo wouldn't fall off my hip, leaving the back stuck there alone
Jan 25 21:36:05 <kdean06> Get a quick disconnect lanyard and run it through your belt.
Jan 25 21:36:24 <kdean06> Sure, doesn't look the sexiest, but functions the same.
Jan 25 21:37:31 <wurp2> Isn't it still going to be hanging there?
Jan 25 21:37:46 <wurp2> But the idea of clipping something over the lanyard hole is great...
Jan 25 21:38:08 <wurp2> I don't like it swinging around while I walk
Jan 25 21:38:16 <wurp2> maybe I should just walk less sexily
Jan 25 21:38:17 <kdean06> I dont' know, I'm a pocket carrier. :P
Jan 25 21:38:37 <wurp2> it's just a bit bulky for that
Jan 25 21:38:45 <zedstar> less mincing when u walk ;)
Jan 25 21:38:47 <wurp2> this from the guy who almost never carries his wallet
Jan 25 21:38:49 <kdean06> Not when you're as big as I am. :)
Jan 25 21:39:15 <wurp2> zedstar: baby, how will they know what I got if I don't show it off?
Jan 25 21:39:19 <wurp2> ;-)
Jan 25 21:39:26 <zedstar> lol
Jan 25 21:39:29 <kdean06> My co-worker, a tiny little Brazillian woman was like "It's chunky" and I'm thiking "Hrm, fits in my hand nicely"
Jan 25 21:39:44 <wurp2> It feels solid
Jan 25 21:39:48 <wurp2> but not too big, to me
Jan 25 21:40:29 * zedstar resists the double entendres
Jan 25 21:40:30 <kdean06> My last phone was a RAZR, so I went from feeling like I was talking into a piece of delicate glass to feeling like i could club an attacker with my phone and it's a good feeling.
Jan 25 21:40:36 <vininim> uh.. i'm a tiny little brazillian, I hope it's not too much bigger than a palm t|x =p
Jan 25 21:41:01 <kdean06> vininim, By the fact that you're on IRC I'm safely betting that she's much cuter than you. :)
Jan 25 21:41:19 <vininim> hehehe
Jan 25 21:41:44 <wurp2> zedstar: thanks :-)
Jan 25 21:43:42 <xcasex>  kdean06 and the difference is, your razr probably works ;D
Jan 25 21:45:23 <kdean06> Actually, in the past 2 months, I've spent more time using my Neo. My RAZR (and my wifes, for that matter) were horrifially broken by week 2 and mine was totally broken two months prior to purchasing my Neo.
Jan 25 21:45:52 <kdean06> I used mine with no screen for almost 5 months and the phone was barely a year old when I smashed it.
Jan 25 21:46:02 <xcasex> oh you can place and receive calls with your neo
Jan 25 21:46:05 <kdean06> Yes
Jan 25 21:46:09 <kdean06> And messages. :)
Jan 25 21:46:13 <xcasex> excellent ,which build etc?
Jan 25 21:46:30 <kdean06> ScaredyCat's from today. :)
Jan 25 21:47:03 <kdean06> xcasex, SMS working is new. I've not had problems making calls at all though I've had stability issues.
Jan 25 21:47:07 <xcasex> so. no subsequent errors etc? wakes from sleep when calls come in etc?
Jan 25 21:47:18 <Spida> xcasex: place and receive calls with the gui? or still by at-commands?
Jan 25 21:47:18 <kdean06> Sleep? What's that?
Jan 25 21:47:23 <xcasex> ScaredyCat: wench, i command you to talk to me.
Jan 25 21:47:32 <xcasex> Spida: gui.
Jan 25 21:47:42 <kdean06> I lock my screen, no sleeping allowed.
Jan 25 21:47:45 <xcasex> kdean06: s2ram of course kind sir :p
Jan 25 21:47:48 <Spida> xcasex: oh, cool
Jan 25 21:48:04 <Spida> how is the battery-lifetime now?
Jan 25 21:48:10 <kdean06> Horrible. :P
Jan 25 21:48:10 <ScaredyCat> wassup biatch
Jan 25 21:48:32 <xcasex> ScaredyCat: kdean06 here is making bold statements as to the stability of your latest build
Jan 25 21:48:50 <kdean06> Notice that even ScaredyCat's don't work on his own phone. :P
Jan 25 21:48:52 <ScaredyCat> only my latest? they are all excellent
Jan 25 21:48:54 <kdean06> He doesn' have sound.
Jan 25 21:49:00 <ScaredyCat> I do now
Jan 25 21:49:03 <kdean06> Ah!
Jan 25 21:49:06 <kdean06> Modules? :P
Jan 25 21:49:18 <xcasex> ScaredyCat: could our issues be related to us usign the sd card for s torage?
Jan 25 21:49:22 <ScaredyCat> well, yes.. but not the reason you think kdean06
Jan 25 21:49:28 <kdean06> Mismatch?
Jan 25 21:49:30 <kdean06> ;)
Jan 25 21:49:52 <ScaredyCat> no... right modules for kernel and rootfs... just somehting not right...
Jan 25 21:49:56 <kdean06> Ah.
Jan 25 21:50:07 <kdean06> Anyway, today's image works well for me.
Jan 25 21:50:15 <Spida> is the battery-lifetime a hardware or a software-issue?
Jan 25 21:50:20 <ScaredyCat> untar the same modules tarball copy the kernel modules for sound to the neo... works
Jan 25 21:50:23 <kdean06> Spida, Both.
Jan 25 21:50:31 <kdean06> Well, software and firmware.
Jan 25 21:50:36 <kdean06> From what I understand.
Jan 25 21:50:47 <ScaredyCat> so I've blown away my work dir and doing a full rebuild - which should be ready by tomorrow
Jan 25 21:50:56 <Spida> kdean06: so both are fixable without throwing the hardware away?
Jan 25 21:51:12 <SpeedEvil> Spida: prettymyuch
Jan 25 21:51:31 <SpeedEvil> Spida: think of the hardware side as all the levers and knobs in your car
Jan 25 21:51:33 <kdean06> ScaredyCat, I've noticed some differences but how much deviation do you do from the core apps? I notice things added, but are you applying unmerged patches to things like messages2?
Jan 25 21:52:09 <SpeedEvil> Spida: and think of powering down and powering up properly as you controlling all these knobs and levers to get it to stop safely in any condition.
Jan 25 21:52:24 <kdean06> Spida, I understand that it will, in time, be decent if not good. The software is an energy hog and the firmware is too stupid to suspend. Both are fixable and both will make power management more bearable.
Jan 25 21:53:38 <ScaredyCat> kdean06: I use the bleeding edge stuff
Jan 25 21:54:04 <kdean06> i.e. svn?
Jan 25 21:54:16 <kdean06> Or i.e. "Fresh picked from your head"?
Jan 25 21:54:42 <kdean06> s/svn/Source control
Jan 25 22:02:20 <kdean06> Hrm...
Jan 25 22:02:25 <kdean06> Perhaps I'm having some issues. :P
Jan 25 22:02:39 <kdean06> Well, SMS DOES work, and that's huge for me.
Jan 25 22:04:14 <toxx_> hi, i'm trying to boot 2.6.24 on my moko with the latest openmoko svn patches quilted in, but on the screen something  just runs through which I can't really interpret. is this also a known issue?
Jan 25 22:05:20 <kdean06> Since the upgrade I've been getting gstreamer connection issues.
Jan 25 22:05:43 <toxx_> i copied all .ko's and ran depmod. it's getting behind the 'starting linux' message, but then there's just noise on the display
Jan 25 22:12:49 <xcasex> ScaredyCat: which is the latest known working phone/sms combo, build?
Jan 25 22:20:25 <wurp2> kdean06: I get occasional gstreamer issues
Jan 25 22:20:38 <wurp2> It looks as if there are specific files for me that it just doesn't understand, though
Jan 25 22:20:56 <wurp2> the media player honestly isn't very good :-(
Jan 25 22:21:04 <wurp2> I mean, it can't help gstreamer stuff
Jan 25 22:21:19 <kdean06> I actually kinda like it. :P
Jan 25 22:21:22 <wurp2> but it doesn't have to lock up for a noticable time when I select a file that no longer exists
Jan 25 22:21:30 <kdean06> Oh.
Jan 25 22:21:35 <wurp2> and I can't get it to start playing a song from my list
Jan 25 22:21:42 <wurp2> and it takes it a long time to build a list
Jan 25 22:21:43 <kdean06> Is the file manager part of media player, or external?
Jan 25 22:21:53 <blckdove> Ha! Just openedup my 01 from the packet 
Jan 25 22:21:54 <quicksand> For me, it falls squarely into the "good enough for now" category.
Jan 25 22:21:54 <wurp2> and when I try to skip ahead several times, it takes a long time
Jan 25 22:22:08 <wurp2> blckdove: Congrats!
Jan 25 22:22:26 <wurp2> quicksand: it falls into the "too good for me to write a replacement" category
Jan 25 22:22:31 <blckdove> dev feels good in hand.. nice design 
Jan 25 22:22:32 <wurp2> barely
Jan 25 22:22:36 <kdean06> blckdove, Congrats! I was so excited I photographed and documented the whole thing. :)
Jan 25 22:22:38 <blckdove> have to update next
Jan 25 22:22:59 <quicksand> wurp2: Yup.  But improvements would be welcome.
Jan 25 22:23:14 <wurp2> and I don't think it makes very good use of screen real estate
Jan 25 22:23:16 <kdean06> blckdove, To answer your next question, I recommend the scaredycat images found -> http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/?M=D
Jan 25 22:23:21 <kdean06> :)
Jan 25 22:23:37 * kdean06 chuckles
Jan 25 22:23:54 <wurp2> If I 'improve' it, I would probably write a python replacement
Jan 25 22:24:23 <wurp2> which would have a crappy startup time, but other than that I think could be quite nice
Jan 25 22:24:53 <quicksand> wurp2: Screen usage is my major complaint with most of the software so far.  The default GTK+ theme is ginormous.
Jan 25 22:24:58 <kdean06> wurp2, Hrm. I thought (don't know why) that the media player WAS python...
Jan 25 22:25:23 <kdean06> That is a good question though...
Jan 25 22:25:25 <quicksand> I don't think so.
Jan 25 22:25:36 <quicksand> Several on the desktop are.
Jan 25 22:25:41 <blckdove> i saw from mailinglists that there is new u-boot available.. I have the debug board so I could aswell give that a try also 
Jan 25 22:25:47 <quicksand> (I forget which.)
Jan 25 22:25:56 <wurp2> One thing I want is to keep a list of all stuff on my home box, and let me queue new stuff up to download from the neo, and automatically do it when the home box is available
Jan 25 22:26:06 <kdean06> I know next to nothing about programming though I consider myself a quick learner. Is there a place that would be good for me to "start"? C/C++? Python? Something else?
Jan 25 22:26:15 <wurp2> and dump stuff that I already listened to at the same time, unless I marked it to keep
Jan 25 22:26:17 <kdean06> For OM development specifically, I mean.
Jan 25 22:26:51 <wurp2> I personally think python is the place to start
Jan 25 22:27:07 <quicksand> Hoooo boy.  Tall order.  Start with the python tutorial and the pygtk tutorial would be my suggestion.
Jan 25 22:27:22 <wurp2> You can have a gui going in about 15 lines of code, and make it do 'stuff' (admittedly lame stuff) in 5 more
Jan 25 22:27:28 <kdean06> blckdove, I DON'T have a debug board and I flashed it without issue except for the distorted splash screen which is fixable.
Jan 25 22:27:51 <wurp2> blckdove: But, don't flash uboot unless your battery is FULLY charged
Jan 25 22:28:08 <wurp2> and preferably have a UPS ;-)
Jan 25 22:28:26 <wurp2> I have a little python gtk demo on my neo
Jan 25 22:28:35 <blckdove> wurp2: thanks for the tip
Jan 25 22:28:39 <wurp2> unfortunately I can't network to my neo right now or I would email it to you
Jan 25 22:28:51 <kdean06> When you get a chance. :)
Jan 25 22:28:53 <wurp2> I have yet to flash my uboot
Jan 25 22:28:56 <kdean06> I'd be appreciative.
Jan 25 22:29:01 <wurp2> OK, will do
Jan 25 22:29:13 <kdean06> wurp2, It's scary but as likely to fail the actual flash as a kernel flash.
Jan 25 22:29:18 <wurp2> All it does is paste up one button that prints stuff to the terminal and exits when you push it
Jan 25 22:29:18 <kdean06> I've done it without a DB. :)
Jan 25 22:29:31 <wurp2> Yeah, I know the risk is low
Jan 25 22:29:36 <blckdove> kdean06: actually my first qustion is: who co-ordinates the development and how can I contribute... something kernel level or midleware would be preferred
Jan 25 22:29:37 <wurp2> it's just that the cost is so high :-)
Jan 25 22:29:56 <quicksand> kdean06: Start here http://docs.python.org/tut/
Jan 25 22:30:10 <kdean06> blckdove, I can't answer that... I personally have seen very little "official" leadership in the project.
Jan 25 22:30:11 <quicksand> Then this http://www.pygtk.org/pygtk2tutorial/index.html
Jan 25 22:30:27 <quicksand> And read a bunch of other people's code.
Jan 25 22:30:34 <kdean06> But I might be looking in the wrong places. :P
Jan 25 22:31:00 <blckdove> I was thinking something like UConnect support if i can find the docs
Jan 25 22:31:02 <kdean06> So that is two that say "Python", I take that's a good place to start. :)
Jan 25 22:31:19 <blckdove> dunno if those are available tho
Jan 25 22:32:57 <zedstar> Vala might be worth looking at also if u specifically want to develop on this platform
Jan 25 22:33:20 <quicksand> kdean06: Yes, it's a good all-around language for learning and prototyping.  On the Neo it starts up kinda slow (5-10 seconds, maybe, for a minimal GUI) but it runs well enough and you can pretty easily take a pygtk program and make it into a c program.
Jan 25 22:33:32 <quicksand> Plus, no compiling.  ;)
Jan 25 22:33:35 <wurp2> well, it's important in the longer run to understand memory management, pointers, and order of magnitude stuff about performance
Jan 25 22:33:52 <wurp2> the latter you may already know (duh, it's slower to move a disk head or wait on the network than to run instructions)
Jan 25 22:34:11 <wurp2> but to get immediate feedback, and a straightforward language, python is the shit
Jan 25 22:34:27 <ewon> it's typeless
Jan 25 22:34:35 <ewon> finding bugs can be a fucking _nightmare_
Jan 25 22:34:49 <kdean06> wurp2, I've got "some" programming experience (PHP) so concepts I grasp, and I've read a few C++ tutorials so I understand the basics, it's syntax and "best practice" that I lack.
Jan 25 22:34:50 <ewon> it's great, you write your software really quick
Jan 25 22:34:55 <ewon> and then spend a fucking age debugging it
Jan 25 22:35:16 <kdean06> Notice I quote. :)
Jan 25 22:35:31 <zedstar> Scheme is great for rapid prototyping on the Neo and compiels to C also
Jan 25 22:35:36 <wurp2> ewon: True...
Jan 25 22:35:56 <wurp2> well, honestly I need to get a good book on Python 'idiom' myself
Jan 25 22:36:19 <quicksand> I came at this from the opposite direction: C first, python later.  My python programs all look like C.
Jan 25 22:36:52 <quicksand> "classes, scope, WTF?  Screw 'em!"
Jan 25 22:37:36 <quicksand> But I'm old so YMMV.
Jan 25 22:38:03 <zedstar> C programmers all tend to be of a certain age these days
Jan 25 22:38:40 <ScaredyCat> what's that supposed to mean!
Jan 25 22:39:01 <kdean06> I think he means only old farts use C.
Jan 25 22:39:04 <kdean06> ;)
Jan 25 22:39:07 <ScaredyCat> bleh
Jan 25 22:39:08 <quicksand> At least I'm not a FORTRAN programmer.
Jan 25 22:39:16 <ScaredyCat> python is stupid...
Jan 25 22:39:22 <ScaredyCat> whitespace 
Jan 25 22:39:25 * zedstar is  C programmer
Jan 25 22:39:51 <wurp2> ScaredyCat: Dude, you're advocating a language that just yacks on you 20 minutes later when you forget to initialize a (pointer) variable
Jan 25 22:39:52 * balrog-kun is also, but is of uncertain age :)
Jan 25 22:40:19 <wurp2> my position is, python & C both have their place
Jan 25 22:40:21 <ScaredyCat> wurp2: so write it probperly the first time :)
Jan 25 22:40:23 <quicksand> ScaredyCat: I hear you.  The first time I had things one space out-of-line and it complained, I knew I'd have trouble getting along with it.
Jan 25 22:40:42 <ewon> hey, I'ma  C programmer
Jan 25 22:40:49 <ewon> and I'm 25
Jan 25 22:40:49 <wurp2> ScaredyCat: That's great advice for 50 lines of code, or 1000 even
Jan 25 22:40:55 <ScaredyCat> wurp2: yeah, python belongs on Windows PC's with VB
Jan 25 22:41:03 <wurp2> It's terrible for 4 million
Jan 25 22:41:06 <wurp2> or even 100,000
Jan 25 22:41:07 <ewon> also, syntactic whitespace == wrong
Jan 25 22:41:23 <ScaredyCat> yeah, but noone writes 4 million lines of code in 1 sitting
Jan 25 22:41:35 <wurp2> ewon: Eh, it's not what I would choose, but it works
Jan 25 22:41:42 <wurp2> I do wish they disallowed tabs
Jan 25 22:41:51 <ewon> wrong, so wrong.
Jan 25 22:41:54 <wurp2> as valid whitespace for line beginnings
Jan 25 22:42:10 <wurp2> I dunno, python's pretty
Jan 25 22:42:15 <ewon> meh.
Jan 25 22:42:18 <wurp2> almost as a requirement
Jan 25 22:42:28 <wurp2> C is very often pretty damned ugly
Jan 25 22:42:32 <Mononoke> nah C++ is just best, you can f<> it in different ways
Jan 25 22:42:37 <wurp2> because one guy uses tabs, and another ' '
Jan 25 22:42:42 <wurp2> I like C++ a lot
Jan 25 22:43:08 <zedstar> functional programming rulez ;)
Jan 25 22:43:10 <zedstar> it's the new black
Jan 25 22:43:15 <wurp2> If you put in all the effort up front to build a good baseline, you can be almost as safe as a python or Java with respect to getting decent error responses to error conditions
Jan 25 22:43:32 <wurp2> but no one ever puts in that effort
Jan 25 22:43:36 <wurp2> so it usually sucks :-/
Jan 25 22:43:56 <kdean06> ScaredyCat, THIS whitespace? -> http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/
Jan 25 22:44:34 <wurp2> zedstar: I agree
Jan 25 22:44:40 <wurp2> It's too bad I mostly suck at it
Jan 25 22:44:54 <zedstar> it takes time to grok functional programming properly but worth it
Jan 25 22:45:01 <zedstar> i didnt understand it wheni did it at Uni
Jan 25 22:45:09 <Mononoke> functional programing is just different model which is in these days too high > too abstract
Jan 25 22:45:40 <ScaredyCat> heheh kdean06
Jan 25 22:45:43 <wurp2> I have done some sophisticated stuff with "functional programming" using C++ templates
Jan 25 22:45:52 <wurp2> but that's not the same thing...
Jan 25 22:46:14 <bkruse_home> <---erlang.
Jan 25 22:46:26 <wurp2> I keep looking at Haskell
Jan 25 22:46:29 <wurp2> then backing off
Jan 25 22:46:35 <wurp2> I really have too much to do already :-/
Jan 25 22:46:38 <Mononoke> you have to understand that cpu arch is procedural, all you can do with it nowdays is to move to higer levels of abstraction..
Jan 25 22:46:57 <bkruse_home> wurp2: erlang.
Jan 25 22:47:14 <ewon> a guy I know loves erlang
Jan 25 22:47:16 <wurp2> why erlang over Haskell?
Jan 25 22:47:29 <ewon> that said, the same dude writes patches for emacs in his spare time
Jan 25 22:47:58 <bkruse_home> ewon: what is his name?!
Jan 25 22:48:00 <bkruse_home> lol
Jan 25 22:48:07 <ewon> bkruse_home: John Sturdy
Jan 25 22:48:16 <zedstar> ive ported Chicken Scheme to the Neo and tonyg has ported Erlang
Jan 25 22:48:16 <bkruse_home> I have a VERY similar friend named Matthew ogorman
Jan 25 22:48:16 <bkruse_home> lol
Jan 25 22:48:20 <kdean06> Different emacs patcher. :)
Jan 25 22:48:21 <ewon> heh :)
Jan 25 22:48:29 <zedstar> so some good options for functional stuff
Jan 25 22:48:33 <ewon> someone ported erlang? sick
Jan 25 22:48:36 <bkruse_home> erlang seriously rocks for high availibility
Jan 25 22:48:43 <ewon> agreed
Jan 25 22:48:49 <bkruse_home> like, wow. yaws vs apache2? not even compition
Jan 25 22:49:05 <bkruse_home> it scales SO well, it is incredible, its HA and clustering almost completely abstracted
Jan 25 22:49:39 <bkruse_home> i am learning it, but first, gtk iax2 client for moko...
Jan 25 22:50:01 <zedstar> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:TonyGarnockJones
Jan 25 22:50:06 <zedstar> erlang on the neo
Jan 25 22:50:11 <zash_> coul
Jan 25 22:50:44 <univac> so we can run ejabberd
Jan 25 22:50:45 <univac> :D
Jan 25 22:51:19 <bkruse_home> lol
Jan 25 22:51:23 <zedstar> Scheme on the Neo
Jan 25 22:51:25 <zedstar> http://zedstar.org/blog/2007/11/07/latest-chicken-scheme-packaged-for-openmoko/
Jan 25 22:51:35 <bkruse_home> its just a cross-compile right?
Jan 25 22:52:35 <zedstar> someone can do Haskell now
Jan 25 22:54:12 <wurp2> TonyGarnockJones can't be all bad
Jan 25 22:54:25 <wurp2> he uses darcs for his source control
Jan 25 22:54:25 <bkruse_home> zedstar: you did scheme?
Jan 25 22:54:38 <wurp2> it's written in Haskell ;-) by a physicist
Jan 25 22:54:42 <bkruse_home> zedstar: did you just cross compile and package it? how hard is it?
Jan 25 22:54:42 <zedstar> i maintain the openmoko port yeh bkruse
Jan 25 22:54:45 <wurp2> so there's two things it has going for it
Jan 25 22:56:28 <bkruse_home> zedstar: was it a configure cross-compile? Or is it more involved
Jan 25 22:56:44 <zedstar> bkruse well fairly messy....it is documented though to some degree here http://galinha.ucpel.tche.br:8080/cross-compilation
Jan 25 22:57:00 <zedstar> not autotools no
Jan 25 22:57:35 <zedstar> so  i adapted that to my openmoko cross tools
Jan 25 22:58:43 <kdean06> http://www.deviceguru.com/2008/01/23/new-linux-flash-filesystem-offers-4x-speed/
Jan 25 22:59:24 <kdean06> Oops. :S
Jan 25 22:59:39 <bkruse_home> gotcha, zedstar, nice
Jan 25 22:59:46 <bkruse_home> ty
Jan 25 23:00:07 <zedstar> i packages the run time library and interpreter so u can instal and phone and have fun in a REPL
Jan 25 23:00:13 <loca|host> any idea for the FreeRunner future price
Jan 25 23:00:37 <wurp2> 4 billion lyra
Jan 25 23:01:19 <loca|host> :)
Jan 25 23:01:43 <loca|host> i saw no clustering in it
Jan 25 23:01:48 <wurp2> which is my lame way of saying, it seems no one knows
Jan 25 23:01:57 <loca|host> should it do some virtualisation ?
Jan 25 23:02:08 <wurp2> I would guess somewhere around $400 US, but that's a wild guess
Jan 25 23:02:13 <zash_> 450 for base and 600 for adv?
Jan 25 23:02:15 <zash_> usd
Jan 25 23:02:27 <wurp2> zash_: Has that been announced?
Jan 25 23:02:46 <zash_> it said so somewhere
Jan 25 23:02:50 <zash_> like the wiki
Jan 25 23:03:01 <kdean06> Yeah, that's been the numbers since the beginning.
Jan 25 23:03:24 <zash_> is the collective memory here that bad?
Jan 25 23:03:34 <kdean06> Though, as we know, FIC and "numbers" have a weird way of interacting.
Jan 25 23:03:42 <wurp2> wow, I missed that altogether somehow
Jan 25 23:04:02 <kdean06> wurp2, Did you know the GTA01Bv4 Advanced dropped to $399 USD?
Jan 25 23:04:03 <kdean06> :P
Jan 25 23:04:32 <wurp2> nope, caught that one
Jan 25 23:04:38 <wurp2> I don't think I want a JTAG board though
Jan 25 23:04:46 <wurp2> I don't plan to fiddle with hardware
Jan 25 23:04:51 <kdean06> That's what I said!
Jan 25 23:04:59 <kdean06> But I regret it now. :(
Jan 25 23:05:02 <wurp2> and I'll just hold off on uboot updates until I actually need a new feature
Jan 25 23:05:03 <wurp2> I don't yet
Jan 25 23:05:10 <wurp2> (regret it, that is)
Jan 25 23:07:59 <wurp2> wow
Jan 25 23:08:02 <wurp2> http://www.chocolate-agency.com/en/en.swf
Jan 25 23:08:06 <wurp2> check out the cuffs
Jan 25 23:08:17 <wurp2> if those are real, that's some amazing stuff!
Jan 25 23:09:04 <blckdove> exitement is in the roof.. flashing rootfs
Jan 25 23:10:50 <wurp2> :-( they're only concept
Jan 25 23:13:01 <blckdove> im expecting my dev did not ship with the latest GSP chip update
Jan 25 23:14:08 <SpeedEvil> no
Jan 25 23:14:09 <wurp2> blckdove: u mean gsm update?
Jan 25 23:14:19 <blckdove> yes.. oops
Jan 25 23:14:23 <SpeedEvil> none will till gta02
Jan 25 23:14:24 <blckdove> gsp even
Jan 25 23:14:28 <blckdove> gsm 
Jan 25 23:14:30 <blckdove> oh man
Jan 25 23:14:30 <SpeedEvil> freerunner
Jan 25 23:14:52 <SpeedEvil> oh - thought you meant gps
Jan 25 23:14:58 <wurp2> you can mail it to Michael Shiloh
Jan 25 23:15:05 <wurp2> You almost certainly didn't get th eupdate
Jan 25 23:15:09 <wurp2> I didn't
Jan 25 23:15:19 <wurp2> It took 2 weeks round trip for me
Jan 25 23:16:25 <zedstar> michael is a dude
Jan 25 23:16:43 <wurp2> ?
Jan 25 23:16:47 <blckdove> did the update include any powersave updates for the chip? or just the sertain carrier card fix?
Jan 25 23:16:59 <wurp2> Oh, he was very polite, and I know he had a TON to do
Jan 25 23:17:19 <wurp2> I am simply reporting the time.  It is a fact that it took 2 weeks from the time I mailed it to him until I got it back.
Jan 25 23:17:32 <wurp2> Just SIM cards, I'm pretty sure
Jan 25 23:17:41 <blckdove> ok
Jan 25 23:18:06 <blckdove> lets see if my t-mobile prepaid is going to work
Jan 25 23:18:16 <wurp2> gotta go, later!
Jan 25 23:18:26 <wurp2> kdean06: I'll try to remember to mail you those scripts when I get home
Jan 25 23:18:44 <zedstar> nite wurp
Jan 25 23:18:53 <kdean06> Thanks
Jan 25 23:19:25 <kdean06> ScaredyCat, Okay, I don't know how I missed this but I don't have sound either. :) Any hints?
Jan 25 23:34:38 <zedstar> anyone read that mailing list post about gps patent thing?
Jan 25 23:35:52 <raster> ugh
Jan 25 23:35:57 <raster> dont remind me of patents
Jan 25 23:36:01 <kdean06> lol
Jan 25 23:36:01 <zedstar> lol
Jan 25 23:36:09 <raster> patents -> the ultimate innovation inhibitor
Jan 25 23:36:09 <kdean06> Greetings rabble 
Jan 25 23:36:12 <kdean06> Crap.
Jan 25 23:36:12 <zedstar> made me chuckle that patent
Jan 25 23:36:20 <raster> i just dont want to know
Jan 25 23:36:25 <raster> dont tell me about patents
Jan 25 23:36:27 <zedstar> read it u will laugh
Jan 25 23:36:37 <Mononoke> link?
Jan 25 23:36:39 <raster> technically if u violate a patent "with knowledge" u are they are entitled to triple damages
Jan 25 23:36:43 <raster> thus ignorace is bliss
Jan 25 23:36:57 <raster> so SHHHHHHH!
Jan 25 23:37:13 <raster> away ye demons of patent revealing evilness!
Jan 25 23:37:19 <kdean06> Anyone know of a locality where patenting the idea of patent trolling would be acceptable?
Jan 25 23:37:44 <zedstar> link to the the blog post in the email http://whydoeseverythingsuck.com/2008/01/are-apple-rim-and-google-all.html
Jan 25 23:39:20 <ewon> lawl
Jan 25 23:39:39 <raster> doesnt matyter
Jan 25 23:39:51 <raster> the US economy is about to collapse
Jan 25 23:39:59 <raster> hopefulyl all software patent impetus with it
Jan 25 23:40:39 <raster> if there's got to be a silver lining to the poo-bucket the us economy is in - then this is a good one
Jan 25 23:40:40 <raster> :)
Jan 25 23:41:13 <zedstar> yeh hope u not got yahoo shares ;)
Jan 25 23:41:22 <raster> i dont
Jan 25 23:41:23 <raster> :)
Jan 25 23:41:44 <raster> i've cunningly put my finances in currencies and countries not based on the us dollar :)
Jan 25 23:41:57 <stefan_schmidt> raster: God idea
Jan 25 23:42:00 <stefan_schmidt> good
Jan 25 23:42:17 <stefan_schmidt> raster: Just think about that I get 10000USD for 1 EUR. ;)
Jan 25 23:42:32 <zedstar> the pound is ok until we run out of north sea oil :)
Jan 25 23:42:36 <raster> stefan_schmidt: hahaha
Jan 25 23:42:37 <raster> nmo
Jan 25 23:42:41 <raster> the american peso
Jan 25 23:43:16 <stefan_schmidt> raster: :D
Jan 25 23:43:32 <zedstar> then we will join the euro of course!
Jan 25 23:43:43 <ewon> we don't want you
Jan 25 23:43:46 <raster> zedstar:  yeah. thats just a question of time
Jan 25 23:43:50 <ewon> you had your chance
Jan 25 23:43:52 <stefan_schmidt> raster: I thought about buying all my stuff in USD currency. Even with taxes and shipping it could be cheaper. ;)
Jan 25 23:44:02 <raster> heck
Jan 25 23:44:03 * stefan_schmidt stops USD ranting.
Jan 25 23:44:13 <raster> even .ch is making overtures about getting closer with the EU
Jan 25 23:44:17 <raster> that says something
Jan 25 23:44:25 <zedstar> ewon i wanted to join long time ago
Jan 25 23:44:29 <raster> syef it is -  generally
Jan 25 23:46:00 * raster ponders what to call his new creation
Jan 25 23:46:42 <zedstar> what is it raster?
Jan 25 23:46:43 <Stephmw> "what is it?
Jan 25 23:46:53 <raster> ah widjitz
Jan 25 23:46:59 <Stephmw> ... hmm, poor machine is struggling under the load
Jan 25 23:53:35 <raster> slidesel it shall be
Jan 25 23:57:14 <blckdove> ha it almost worked
Jan 25 23:57:39 <blckdove> SMS sending works... phone call works but I cant hear nor can the other end
Jan 25 23:58:22 <kdean06> Yeah, I'm getting that today as well.
Jan 25 23:58:26 <zedstar> your sms bill gonna be big
Jan 26 00:01:23 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03mickey * r3958 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/daemons/neod/src/buttonactions.c: neod: clean up some warnings, attempt to fix #1114
Jan 26 00:14:59 <blckdove> what is the device/proc file to cat about battery info (charge and so)
Jan 26 00:15:14 <blckdove> i remember something like that but cant seem to find it in wiki atm
Jan 26 00:17:46 <raster> /proc/apm
Jan 26 00:18:30 <blckdove> ah...standard place ...seems to be
Jan 26 01:04:44 <toxx_> hey, i just figured out that git://git.openmoko.org/git/kernel.git is working on GTA01!
Jan 26 01:05:29 <toxx_> (at least it panics first only because I messed up my rootfs settings :)
Jan 26 02:55:16 <justin111_> raster: its been almost a week and  apt hasent blown up
Jan 26 02:56:05 <justin111_> raster: this has really been the longest since i had ubuntu i have ever had a OS
Jan 26 02:56:12 <justin111_> going on a week now
Jan 26 02:57:34 <blckdove> first ssh connection via usb... going along nicely :)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jan 26 02:59:57 2008