**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 08 02:59:56 2008 Feb 08 07:13:01 moin Feb 08 07:59:32 ScaredyCat: didnt realise you were in competition with us with buildhost.automated.it :-D Feb 08 08:46:07 openmoko: 03werner * r4026 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (3 files): (log message trimmed) Feb 08 08:46:07 openmoko: Brought back use of SHORTSWAP32, since we need it for the GTA02 u-boot console. Feb 08 08:46:07 openmoko: This undoes the HWSWP change in revision 3774. Feb 08 08:46:07 openmoko: GTA01 splash screen images have to be generated without -swap, like before Feb 08 08:46:07 openmoko: revision 3774. Feb 08 08:46:08 openmoko: uboot-20061030-neo1973.patch: Feb 08 08:46:11 openmoko: - include/configs/neo1973_gta01.h: set VIDEO_FB_16BPP_PIXEL_SWAP Feb 08 08:50:52 go werner! Feb 08 09:28:14 openmoko: 03laforge * r4027 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (5 files): four more patches have been merged mainline (great!) Feb 08 09:29:35 woot Feb 08 09:39:54 morning Feb 08 09:42:33 * SpeedEvil sees an unfamiliar pppd error. Feb 08 09:42:54 What does 'Warning: couldn't open ppp database /var/run/pppd2.tdb Feb 08 09:42:56 ' mean? Feb 08 09:44:56 that you should check existence, permission and integrity of this file Feb 08 09:49:35 freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r74 10/trunk/software/gsm0710muxd/src/gsm0710muxd.c: Feb 08 09:49:35 freesmartphone.org: made timout optional (set by commandline option) Feb 08 09:49:35 freesmartphone.org: made ping configurable by commandline option Feb 08 09:50:06 freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r75 10/trunk/software/ (py-proto/ pyneod/ pyneod/ChangeLog pyneod/README): renamed to pyneod Feb 08 09:56:56 I'd really love to get a FreeRunner, but I'm in Australia, so the comments about 3G on http://lwn.net/Articles/268247/ apply Feb 08 09:57:16 has there been any talk of supporting 3G stuff? Feb 08 09:57:28 openmoko: 03thomas * r4028 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/opkg_state.c: opkg: correct the name of the state changed callback and run it when appropriate Feb 08 09:58:13 no Feb 08 09:58:26 we'll surely have 3g in the successor to the FreeRunner Feb 08 09:58:34 but that's pie in the sky for now Feb 08 09:59:21 heh - 2G aint going away any time soon in Australia. Feb 08 10:07:06 mickeyl: the, or a successor? Feb 08 10:07:39 a Feb 08 10:07:44 well Feb 08 10:07:45 yeah Feb 08 10:07:47 i think every Feb 08 10:08:05 Everyone wants 3G for their area Feb 08 10:08:06 I don't think we will sell a 2g phone in 2009 Feb 08 10:08:12 s/will/can/ Feb 08 10:08:12 mickeyl meant: I don't think we can sell a 2g phone in 2009 Feb 08 10:09:29 I don't know. If it's cheap and featurefull, maybe. Feb 08 10:09:40 At the current price point - no way. Feb 08 10:10:01 ya Feb 08 10:10:39 I assume that that basically means 3 or four seperate designds for the world - 3G Feb 08 10:11:47 Or are there multistandard chipsets that's duit. Feb 08 10:11:47 Oh damn, lost internet again. Feb 08 10:11:47 I'm having phone issues Feb 08 10:12:03 multistandard modules that may suit that is. Feb 08 10:12:08 SpeedEvil: at least you cant blame them on us :-) Feb 08 10:12:13 :D Feb 08 10:13:03 Oh dear. Feb 08 10:13:03 I really hope I can't. Feb 08 10:13:07 But I've just realised that my neo is within 20cm of my DSL modem Feb 08 10:13:28 I really really hope that's not why it's dropping out. Feb 08 10:13:45 As I've called out an engineer, and that'll be chargable. Doh. Feb 08 10:15:07 I don't think it is - horribly heavy winds before the problem started. Feb 08 10:17:14 Ok - DSL SNR spiking fdown to negatives with phone off. :) Feb 08 10:18:37 good Feb 08 10:28:37 so, uh, channel seems quiet, hope an semi-off-topic question is OK: anyone know if 3G phones can send video over IP, or is it only over PSTN? Feb 08 10:35:50 if you connect to the internet you can probably stream stuff over it Feb 08 10:36:13 if you can get software onto the phone that does that Feb 08 10:55:43 latency is still gonna be pretty high on 3G and the uplink aint that great....anyone tried video over IP on a 3G connection? Feb 08 11:08:11 good morning Feb 08 11:49:46 http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/blog/2008/02/03/interview-with-michael-shiloh-of-openmoko/ Feb 08 12:28:11 what kind of pr is this: "Michael: I think the company is about 40 people (I?m not really sure)." Feb 08 12:54:35 has there been or might there be any hardware tech crossover between OLPC/OpenMoko? I'm thinking mainly about the wireless, the readable-in-daylight screen and I thought the battery was fancy in some way Feb 08 12:57:24 there hasnt been Feb 08 13:00:21 bit of a shame, they have some nice stuff that would be useful for mobiles Feb 08 13:01:11 i dont think that dual mode screen is currently available commercially Feb 08 13:01:21 much less in a phone form factor Feb 08 13:01:33 as for the wifi, there was some reason i forgot why it couldnt be used Feb 08 13:04:16 perhaps in FreeRunner+1 Feb 08 13:16:56 OOPC would be great Feb 08 13:21:11 lol Feb 08 13:21:19 one openmoko per child? :P Feb 08 13:21:23 yup Feb 08 13:21:26 ^^ Feb 08 13:22:30 *g Feb 08 13:22:58 and i hope i still qualify as a child Feb 08 13:27:08 around here children already have phones... Feb 08 13:27:30 i'm sometimes in disbelief when i see 7 yer olds carrying mobiles... Feb 08 13:28:16 sharing spongebob-warez Feb 08 13:28:25 but not as much seeing 9 yer olds smoking Feb 08 13:31:38 mobiles are banned in my university :/ Feb 08 13:31:54 Sup3rkiddo: wow? Feb 08 13:31:58 really? Feb 08 13:32:03 why Feb 08 13:32:28 banned on whole campus? or just in lectures Feb 08 13:32:30 raynet, yeah..AU, chennai....stupid indian politics Feb 08 13:32:50 whole campus.. Feb 08 13:32:53 silly Feb 08 13:33:23 ..that didnt stop me from carrying neo one day :), to show off Feb 08 13:33:49 my uni has no reception with two carriers in many places butphones arent banned Feb 08 13:34:24 i dont think anyone would care if they were Feb 08 13:34:36 mobiles in hostels are tolerated.. Feb 08 13:35:33 http://www.thehindu.com/2006/02/19/stories/2006021904050300.htm if you are curious Feb 08 13:36:20 aah Feb 08 13:36:22 ok Feb 08 13:36:35 it makes sense.. kind of, in a bizarre way Feb 08 13:37:02 ....yeah...note "bizarre"... Feb 08 14:21:04 http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2008/02/08/touchscreen-on-both-sides Feb 08 14:38:28 Sup3rkiddo: scary article... Feb 08 14:39:19 very.. Feb 08 14:40:23 that very last sentence... as if you're not civilized without a university degree... Feb 08 14:40:47 Kero, the VC is a moron Feb 08 14:40:58 ...and i hope this channel aint publicly logged Feb 08 14:41:09 hehe Feb 08 14:42:06 even if, echelon will know, but not the VC Feb 08 14:43:34 what's the VC? Feb 08 14:44:17 * Kero sees dcordes joined after Sup3rkiddo pasted http://www.thehindu.com/2006/02/19/stories/2006021904050300.htm Feb 08 14:49:16 ah yes the last sentence is awesome Feb 08 15:11:01 * * OM Bug 1222 has been created by marcus.bauer(AT)gmail.com Feb 08 15:11:02 * * openmoko-today's launcher is often unresponsive Feb 08 15:11:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1222 Feb 08 15:13:33 pabs3: I believe the battery is simply an NiMH pack Feb 08 15:13:39 pabs3: very, very old tech. Feb 08 15:16:57 * ScaredyCat dances Feb 08 15:23:12 If you have some comments on the way a bug in bugzilla is solved and a patch for a different way to solve it, should it be marked as reopened or stay fixed? Feb 08 15:25:13 reopening is probably not the right way to do it Feb 08 15:25:26 maybe create a low priority bug and attach the new way, and post a comment in the solved bug Feb 08 15:25:42 reopening implies not fixed Feb 08 15:26:28 could also attach to the existing bug but it might get missed Feb 08 15:28:29 Yep, that is what I have done, but as you say, it might get missed. But maybe I could wait a couple of days and see what happens. Feb 08 15:29:38 Or tell mickeyl directly when he is online, he did the original fix. Feb 08 15:31:28 But thanks. Then I did the right thing by not marking it as reopened. :) Feb 08 15:41:06 haakeyar: you could sent an email to the appropriate list to make sure it gets noticed Feb 08 16:32:23 Can the phone speak with the GSM chip, or do I need the advance model to do that? Feb 08 16:32:39 what do you mean? Feb 08 16:33:08 (you need the "advanced" set for very few things Feb 08 16:33:33 hum what is the advanced set used for? Feb 08 16:33:40 unbricking Feb 08 16:33:53 u-boot development Feb 08 16:34:00 but that's it really Feb 08 16:34:11 nadio, If you're going to be doing development on the bootloader, or tinkering with the hardware. Other than that, it's not needed. Feb 08 16:34:14 you do get an extra battery ;) Feb 08 16:34:22 True! Feb 08 16:34:52 do you get the 3 function pen if you don't buy the advanced? Feb 08 16:34:57 Yes Feb 08 16:34:59 ScaredyCat: yep Feb 08 16:34:59 ScaredyCat, yes Feb 08 16:35:11 k... Feb 08 16:35:13 ScaredyCat, I suppose it's actually 4 Feb 08 16:35:22 LED, Laser, Pen, Stylus. :P Feb 08 16:35:24 At least 4 Feb 08 16:35:31 *shudder* Feb 08 16:35:35 ;-) Feb 08 16:35:39 "Cat on the counter knocker offer" Feb 08 16:35:43 also,you can stick it up your ass Feb 08 16:36:08 For example, speaking to the GSM chip, with any other phone, you need an extra additional cable. Feb 08 16:36:24 Is this required with openmoko as well ? Feb 08 16:36:32 You can do that w/ software Feb 08 16:36:32 define speaking. Feb 08 16:36:39 blahblahblah Feb 08 16:36:47 it's an AT modem essentially Feb 08 16:37:04 with a flexible audio routing chip connected to A/D, D/A, speakers and mics Feb 08 16:37:46 you can in principle do per speaker voice filters. So if someone has an annoyingly high voice, you can pitch bend them down Feb 08 16:38:09 * mjr likes the cylon filter concept better Feb 08 16:38:46 yeah. Feb 08 16:38:55 Filter out those annoying cylon telemarketers. Feb 08 16:39:07 So there is no extra cables really needed to speak with the gsm chip ? Feb 08 16:39:28 what do you mean 'speak with'? Feb 08 16:40:08 For example, locking up the phone, requires and extra cable to do so. Feb 08 16:40:18 locking up? Feb 08 16:41:00 SpeedEvil: Surely you have heard about those famous unlocking of phones ? Feb 08 16:41:06 Or changing the IMEI ? Feb 08 16:41:45 oh - you can't unlock it. Feb 08 16:41:50 As it's not locked Feb 08 16:41:53 or change the IMEI Feb 08 16:43:39 well you could if you were ti, or openmoko :-) but generally you can't Feb 08 16:43:50 change the imei Feb 08 16:44:03 * mjr isn't sure about the openmoko part Feb 08 16:44:08 err Feb 08 16:44:10 i mean fic Feb 08 16:44:11 i guess Feb 08 16:44:14 I was just wondering If I can pass this commands on to the GSM with openmoko or is other hardware required Feb 08 16:44:15 TI, certainly... Feb 08 16:44:17 * anrp waves hand Feb 08 16:44:44 nadio: if you want, you can talk to the modem directly. there are no sim/operator locks Feb 08 16:44:52 nadio, it's an AT modem. You can pass AT commands. These may include some undocumented ones to do locking/unlocking but that'd be TI's secrets Feb 08 16:45:18 thanks, that answers my question. Feb 08 16:56:54 This me be offtopic, but anyone got information if FreeRunner will go for sale in next month ? Feb 08 16:58:02 pretty much no information Feb 08 16:58:50 personally I _guess_ late next month to be within realm of possibility, but wouldn't bet my business on it, had I the follow-through to have one Feb 08 16:59:46 h Feb 08 17:00:04 hi Feb 08 17:00:39 it's not only on topic, it's in the topic Feb 08 17:26:29 Any inofficial updates on gta02? :P Feb 08 17:27:01 yeah, its shipping next week Feb 08 17:27:09 ... NOT! Feb 08 17:27:15 did you see there, i did the NOT-joke Feb 08 17:27:22 from borat movie.. k thnx Feb 08 17:28:59 Do you also wear a mankini? Feb 08 17:29:58 is openOCD the only way to remote gdb? Feb 08 17:36:12 openmoko: 03thomas * r4029 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/ (162 files in 3 dirs): opkg: re-arrange source code into sub-directories Feb 08 17:36:53 SpeedEvil: Did you see my math yesterday re: diffraction? Feb 08 17:37:13 No. Feb 08 18:02:14 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4030 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/util/ (atcmd.c shell.c): gsmd: fix error handling in libgsmd-tool (Paulius Zaleckas) Feb 08 18:19:40 How's power management on the GTA01 these days? Feb 08 18:21:14 Basivcally the same Feb 08 18:21:32 progress is happening - but not in a way that's percolated through to the images Feb 08 18:25:41 Does anyone know how many gta01 that have been sold? Feb 08 18:26:09 all Feb 08 18:32:18 on the order of 5000 Feb 08 18:32:41 hey SpeedEvil, you seem allknowing,, you dont happen to own a nslu2? :) Feb 08 18:32:53 No. Feb 08 18:33:06 I do have a new linux router though Feb 08 18:33:24 ADSL router with 4 port hub for 15 quid Feb 08 18:33:31 8M RAM, 2M ROM Feb 08 18:33:39 And no GPL offer in the box. Feb 08 18:33:55 seems horrible? :) Feb 08 18:34:34 It replaced one running vxworks. Feb 08 18:35:08 ive tried a number of routers, but none seems to offer the routing speed of my good old pentium 200 MMX ;D Feb 08 18:35:18 which runs without a fan btw Feb 08 18:35:35 Well - yes - but it probably uses 20W or so. Feb 08 18:35:41 more than a 'box' router Feb 08 18:36:05 Which - at least here'd pay for a box router in a year or two. Feb 08 18:36:44 (electricity is now 11p/unit - which is around a pound a year for a watt) Feb 08 18:36:46 yeah, true, but with one of those vxworks routers, i cant use 100% of my bandwidth Feb 08 18:37:02 if i only cared about money, id just sell all my equipment and move to the forrest :) Feb 08 18:38:08 There is caring about money, and spending money on stuff that cuts your bills Feb 08 18:38:33 to let you buy more nice stuff. Feb 08 18:38:54 i work instead Feb 08 18:38:55 ;-) Feb 08 19:52:44 org Feb 08 19:55:19 biz? Feb 08 19:55:48 com. Feb 08 19:56:46 edu! Feb 08 19:56:57 ie! Feb 08 19:57:01 .museum ? Feb 08 19:57:22 xxx Feb 08 19:57:25 . Feb 08 19:57:40 Root FTW Feb 08 19:58:14 I need more alcohol. BBIAB Feb 08 19:59:08 BYOB Feb 08 20:05:17 Indeed. Feb 08 20:11:43 Build failure (if anyone cares): ERROR: '['/myth/OpenMoko4/openembedded/packages/gpsd/gpsd_2.34.bb']' RDEPENDS/RRECOMMENDS or otherwise requires the runtime entity 'python-ncurses' but it wasn't found in any PACKAGE or RPROVIDES variables Feb 08 20:52:34 hi all Feb 08 20:58:20 kristian-m, hey Feb 08 20:58:58 kristian-m, I sent the mail about SettingsGUI to Mickey but I did not receive any answer Feb 08 20:59:10 kristian-m, so I assume he is not interested Feb 08 22:15:46 Does anyone here have troubles with his/her SD card no longer being operational on the Neo after an update? Feb 08 22:16:27 abraxa_: Yes, with the 2.6.24 kernel Feb 08 22:16:43 Likewise Feb 08 22:16:49 I'm trying to gather infos for a bug report Feb 08 22:17:53 I assume you haven't investigated, mmontour? Feb 08 22:18:44 I mentioned it on the kernel list - http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-February/000808.html . I haven't done any further investigation; I just went back to 2.6.22.5 (since I have my root filesystem on SD) Feb 08 22:19:06 I haven't tried any bleeding edge updates Feb 08 22:19:34 But I know starting with the 1/29 jffs2 download I have had trouble with my symbolic link from /home/root to /media/card/home/root Feb 08 22:19:49 Trouble, in that it works fine until I reboot, then it fails to come all the way up Feb 08 22:20:02 and the messages I see are typical of failure to read the SD card Feb 08 22:20:45 That's all on 2.6.22.5, though Feb 08 22:21:12 mmontour: I'll link to your post in the bugzilla entry then Feb 08 22:25:00 * * OM Bug 1223 has been created by abraxa(AT)dar-clan.de Feb 08 22:25:02 * * SD card no longer operational with 2.6.24 Feb 08 22:25:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1223 Feb 08 23:14:35 inwoo: gdbserver Feb 08 23:17:33 cesarb, : ty ;) Feb 09 00:26:45 * cesarb has fixed what was bothering him in the GTA02 cpufreq code Feb 09 00:27:09 Now it no longer has to busy-wait for 5ms with interrupts disabled after coming from slow mode Feb 09 00:27:39 Instead, it will sleep for 5ms Feb 09 00:51:37 anyone know how to kill the clock Feb 09 00:53:49 still trying to view your hot asian background? Feb 09 00:54:32 LoL that was not me HA Feb 09 00:55:00 oops, sorry :) Feb 09 00:55:09 just remembered someone mentioning it on the mailing list Feb 09 00:55:31 yeah, I dont really like the clock, dont need one. Feb 09 00:55:40 Thats funny though Feb 09 01:07:42 smlsfb: the clock should at least be translucent... if I have a beautiful swirly fire background, I shouldn't have an opaque clock completely destroying it! Feb 09 01:08:24 smlsfb: OTOH, I *want* the clock, it's one of the most important uses for a cellphone! (the other two being an alarm clock and calling people) Feb 09 01:09:16 * cesarb probably wouldn't have an swirly fire background, however. probably something more like blue stones within water (my current razr background) Feb 09 01:10:20 cesarb, that sounds like a fair use :) Feb 09 01:11:00 i keep my car on my phone background ... it's almost expected to be able to customize something like a phone background Feb 09 01:11:30 btw, you're working on gta02 cpufreq? did they sample you one? :) Feb 09 01:11:49 smlsfb: ...didn't you mean your phone in your car background? ;-) Feb 09 01:12:20 smlsfb: nah, I'm just adapting the cpufreq code to gta02 to give it wider exposure, I'm working on cpufreq to make my gta01 battery last longer ;-) Feb 09 01:12:24 cesarb, well, a picture of it :) Feb 09 01:12:55 ah, very cool. any big breakthroughs in the last week? Feb 09 01:14:52 smlsfb: well, last week I IIRC made it able to dynamically change the dividers too instead of using a fixed one for each frequency (using an idea from SpeedEvil), made the framebuffer flicker less annoyingly, and refactored the code so it can be used for all the 2410-class SoCs, not only the 2410A (but it only has code for the 2410A and the 2442 so far) Feb 09 01:15:08 cesarb: Is it possable to remove/ move the clock Feb 09 01:16:19 KrisAbsinthe: dunno, didn't even look at userspace that closely. either it's a separate process (in which case just kill it) or it's part of the window manager (in which case you'd have to either fudge with the code or find a hidden config switch) Feb 09 01:16:31 cesarb, impressive :) looks like things are coming along well Feb 09 01:16:34 KrisAbsinthe: I'd guess it's hardcoded, so the way would be to edit the code Feb 09 01:17:14 probably in openmoko-today Feb 09 01:17:32 to bad my mokomakefile screwed up Feb 09 01:17:59 smlsfb: I intend as my next step to make the USB gadget code aware of the Vbus status (i.e. whether it's connected to a cable or not) and disable/enable the usb device core as needed. After that, I can make it pin the frequency to the maximum every time it's connected (it doesn't seem to like switching frequencies while talking to the host) Feb 09 01:19:21 that seems like a good idea, especially when it's powered over usb. no need to save power then :) Feb 09 01:19:39 smlsfb: this will involve a very ugly hack (adding a "fake" gpio pin), since the generic gpio code isn't yet used by the s3c24xx Feb 09 01:19:48 (i'm taking computer architecture this semester, so i'm watching all this with a lot of interest) Feb 09 01:20:52 smlsfb: or rewriting a large amount of code to make s3c24xx use the generic gpio code, _after_ backporting it from 2.6.25 (it isn't on 2.6.24!)... yeah, right Feb 09 01:21:13 smlsfb: heh, I'm long out of university Feb 09 01:21:30 heh, seems like you're always backporting something from the most recent kernel :) Feb 09 01:21:36 smlsfb: (for some values of long at least, it's not been that long... but seems like it was) Feb 09 01:21:53 i should be long out of university :), but i'm taking my time Feb 09 01:23:40 smsfb: me and you both, working on one of 3 degrees Feb 09 01:24:37 KrisAbsinthe, i've been enrolled in at least 3 vastly different majors :) Feb 09 01:24:59 chemistry, enviromental studies, computer science Feb 09 01:25:20 i've used up all my GE credits though ... any extra classes, i take on my own time (don't count toward degree) Feb 09 01:26:05 LoL, Im taking Network Security now. then I want software engineering and my favorite Physics Feb 09 01:27:03 oh, network security is fun :) Feb 09 01:27:37 although i'm tempted to try real, academic computer science Feb 09 01:27:42 research and what not Feb 09 01:27:59 fun like the "stab yourself in the butt with a blunt spoon" dategory of fun :) Feb 09 01:28:09 Yup, easy realy, most the poor bastards in my classes dont realize by the time the class is over the security world has changed so much that it was essentially making the class useless Feb 09 01:28:24 LOL Feb 09 01:29:04 i think the social engineering aspect of security needs more attention though ... Feb 09 01:29:25 much easier to circumvent everything and coax someone into giving you what you want :P Feb 09 01:30:22 yes Feb 09 01:30:29 you should do more practicals Feb 09 01:30:29 I agree. Me and Lurid are doing a SE talk at HOPE Feb 09 01:30:45 like draggingy your victims to the local bar and feeding them (and yourself) alcohol until they give up the info you need Feb 09 01:30:55 i.e. - he with the better liver wins Feb 09 01:31:03 :D Feb 09 01:31:46 raster: why go to all the trouble? just randomly drop a few USB sticks around the parking spots Feb 09 01:31:48 Ok i found the Clock code in openmoko-today2 there are some transparency talks, have to read the headers yet, see if i can do this Feb 09 01:31:51 raster: or use chocolate Feb 09 01:32:19 http://scarygoround.com/?date=20080207 Feb 09 01:32:55 cesarb, and whack them in the head when they reach down to pick them up? :D Feb 09 01:34:26 to hell with it. I just /* the create Feb 09 01:35:00 smlsfb: that was a reference to a serious pen testing incident Feb 09 01:35:25 pen testing? Feb 09 01:35:30 smlsfb: where the trick used was to leave several trojanized usb pen drives where the employees would find them Feb 09 01:35:34 smlsfb: penetration testing Feb 09 01:35:47 ahhhhh Feb 09 01:35:51 very tricky Feb 09 01:35:58 smlsfb: I think they were of that special variety which fools windows into autorunning them Feb 09 01:36:22 linux, ftw! Feb 09 01:36:38 I like the RFID Hijacking tools, now you can buy a RFID reader/writer at Radio shack for $50 Feb 09 01:36:40 i used to try opening viruses in wine to see what they did Feb 09 01:37:01 smlsfb: there was also an study showing that a surprisingly high (something like 20%) amount of people would tell their passwords in exchange for chocolate Feb 09 01:37:38 i imagine they were the same people with 'password' or 'secret' as their password, i imagine Feb 09 01:38:20 smlsfb: http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/06/08/2151222 (the chocolate one is mentioned in the comments) Feb 09 01:41:04 * smlsfb hates the new slashdot setup Feb 09 01:41:23 * smlsfb wants an easy way to view all comments, not click 50 times on 'see more' Feb 09 01:44:22 agreed Feb 09 01:44:24 plus it uses the hated java :( Feb 09 01:44:56 after 300 comments, i start getting 'unresponsive scripts messages' Feb 09 01:47:58 smlsfb: java != javascript Feb 09 01:48:30 i thought slashdot was running an applet though ... Feb 09 01:48:46 smlsfb: and you should be using noscript, like I do (there's a link at the top of the comments to change to &no_d2=1 mode) Feb 09 01:48:48 * smlsfb never bothered to look at their code tho Feb 09 01:49:56 wow!!! Feb 09 01:50:10 i've looked all over for that link, thank you! Feb 09 01:52:06 cesarb, do you need to be logged in? i still don't see a link for that ... Feb 09 01:53:41 smlsfb: I see it without being logged in, it probably is within (as I said, use the noscript firefox extension...) Feb 09 01:53:41 ah, nevermind Feb 09 01:53:51 smlsfb: or you can add &no_d2=1 to the URL Feb 09 01:53:53 looked through the souce, doesn't display the option unelss you have noscript Feb 09 01:54:09 thanks though Feb 09 02:01:37 how do i make openmoko-toda2 with mokomakefile? Feb 09 02:05:33 KrisAbsinthe: make build-package-openmoko-today2 Feb 09 02:06:28 smlsfb: I seriously don't know how people can stand the web without noscript+adblockplus+easylist Feb 09 02:07:19 smlsfb: not to mention that noscript stops a full half of all firefox bugs from being exploitable (probably way more than half) Feb 09 02:07:22 i just use the standard built in pop up blocking ... plus most javascript actions (resize, change, pop up_ disabled Feb 09 02:07:35 whats easylist do? Feb 09 02:07:44 (in fact, it's the security aspect that makes me like noscript the most) Feb 09 02:08:02 smlsfb: easylist is a set of three lists of things for adblock plus to block Feb 09 02:08:32 smlsfb: the first one is ad blocking, the second one cleans the voids left on the page structure by the first one, the third one blocks tracking stuff Feb 09 02:08:44 wow, impressive Feb 09 02:09:14 smlsfb: but in practice it doesn't have much effect, since noscript already blocks almost everything it would block! Feb 09 02:09:42 (for some reason disabling javascript clobbers a huge amount of ads) Feb 09 02:10:06 that's fair; javascript's biggest use seems to have been for annoying, intrusive ads Feb 09 02:13:23 smlsfb: I mostly tell noscript to leave alone sites I use a lot and which benefit from javascript. Like wikipedia, for instance. Sites I use less often or which don't need javascript (hello, slashdot!) I leave it disabled, or enable temporarily when needed. Feb 09 02:19:41 KrisAbsinthe: For a small clock, have you tried: dbus-launch gconftool-2 --type bool --set /desktop/poky/interface/small_clock true Feb 09 02:19:41 (may not take effect until you restart) Feb 09 02:21:48 It makes the clock insanely small -- it fits on the datebar on the today screen. The hands aren't exactly visible. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Feb 09 02:59:57 2008