**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Feb 09 02:59:57 2008 Feb 09 05:08:14 freerunner in march 4 reals? Feb 09 05:21:59 quicksand: Thank you it worked Feb 09 05:27:50 niklauz: Nobody knows Feb 09 05:28:08 But they are still talking about hardware changes on the kernel mailing list :-( Feb 09 05:28:27 for the freerunner release? Feb 09 05:28:37 would that be considered gta03? Feb 09 05:29:27 nah, FreeRunner is just the new name of gta02 Feb 09 05:29:37 i understand these things take time, but this is the next phone i buy even if it takes years Feb 09 05:29:42 Yes, the changes are for the FR release, I'm pretty sure Feb 09 05:29:47 Yeah, I gave in and bought an 01 Feb 09 05:29:55 I will probably buy an 02 when it comes out Feb 09 05:30:11 although I may wait until the software is in a better state to buy the 02 Feb 09 05:30:35 heheh, the gta01 isn't really intended for daily use though is it? Feb 09 05:30:45 no Feb 09 05:30:52 but neither will the 02 hardware be when it first comes out Feb 09 05:30:57 i thought it was purely dev-oreiented Feb 09 05:31:05 rather, the hw will be ready, but the sw won't be in that state Feb 09 05:31:06 it is Feb 09 05:31:12 I use it for my regular phone Feb 09 05:31:18 but then I'm at a computer all day Feb 09 05:31:30 battery life right now is about 5 hours max w/o a recharge Feb 09 05:31:30 I wish i could pay OM to fix my GSM Feb 09 05:31:35 oic, i think i would still get it and anyway and just update the s/w when avail Feb 09 05:32:04 KrisAbsinthe: the bad standby issue? Feb 09 05:32:17 (i.e. too much power used by standby) Feb 09 05:32:23 u use gta01 as yr regular phone? Feb 09 05:32:23 wurp2: No, i live in a GSM 850 area Feb 09 05:32:26 niklauz: Yeah, if I didn't have an 01, I would too Feb 09 05:32:32 KrisAbsinthe: ah, ouch! Feb 09 05:32:46 niklauz: Yes, I use the 01 as my regular phone Feb 09 05:32:54 but it was frustrating today Feb 09 05:33:07 My son got injured and went to the emergency room Feb 09 05:33:15 and the dialer locked up :-( Feb 09 05:33:17 I helped discover this problem, I would have waited for the 02, but atleast im getting good practice with the platform Feb 09 05:33:29 then reboot didn't help, at which point I remembered that reboot doesn't reboot the gsm Feb 09 05:33:29 wurp2: thats no good Feb 09 05:33:42 So I yanked the battery for a minute, rebooted, and all was well Feb 09 05:34:05 KrisAbsinthe: Yeah, early on it was supposedly quad-band Feb 09 05:34:05 :-( Feb 09 05:34:12 any idea what the projected batt life for the gta02 is? Feb 09 05:34:21 wurp2: I know lol. Feb 09 05:34:23 no Feb 09 05:34:27 the tri-band decision is a mystery to me Feb 09 05:34:40 It was a hw engineering error Feb 09 05:34:49 is it a decision or a just how it happened? Feb 09 05:34:51 that turned out to be time-expensive to fix Feb 09 05:35:00 First it was just an error Feb 09 05:35:14 in that case it should be fixed on the next iteration, no? Feb 09 05:35:14 then when they looked into how long to fix it, they decided to go tri-band Feb 09 05:35:23 at least there will be two tri-band options Feb 09 05:35:31 niklauz: You mean the next after 02? Feb 09 05:35:40 I don't think there are any firm plans for that at all Feb 09 05:35:46 The focus is all on 02 now Feb 09 05:35:50 i guess so, though i wish it was fixed for gta02 Feb 09 05:35:53 wurp2: On the community list there was some hope for my issue, but who knows Feb 09 05:36:24 wurp2: can you explain what happened? Feb 09 05:36:33 KrisAbsinthe: Cool! I know they can fix 'em... I would love to see them offer an option for the ppl in 850 areas who thought they were buying hw that would eventually work Feb 09 05:36:38 KrisAbsinthe: sorry, i joined in late, what was your issue? Feb 09 05:36:55 niklauz: nope, I'm just a guy who owns an 01 and spends too much time in this room Feb 09 05:36:57 queueRAM:GSM 850 Feb 09 05:37:07 ah, ok, the matter at hand Feb 09 05:37:09 KrisAbsinthe: or lack thereof :-) Feb 09 05:37:22 wurp2: I got the test phone from michael shiloh and i t was cool to call from home Feb 09 05:37:39 KrisAbsinthe: Cool! I didn't know you were on the test rotation Feb 09 05:37:52 You shoulda just packed up your old neo to send to the next tester Feb 09 05:37:56 wurp2: proud to say i got it first heheh Feb 09 05:38:19 wurp2: lol I fighured I would get michael in trouble if I did that Feb 09 05:38:35 he's a nice guy Feb 09 05:38:44 he has been great Feb 09 05:39:04 he fixed the gsm firmware in mine to work w/ my AT&T SIM Feb 09 05:39:34 wurp2: ill have to send mine eventually. probably after i get the 02 Feb 09 05:40:13 Does anyone know why there isn't a shutdown init.d script to kill the gsm on shutdown? Feb 09 05:40:22 wurp2: does you know what carrier's are supported in teh states? Feb 09 05:40:33 niklauz: Any GSM carrier Feb 09 05:40:46 niklauz: well, technically really only 1900 carriers right now Feb 09 05:40:52 AT&T and T-mobile are the two i know of Feb 09 05:40:52 but the 02 will support 850 too Feb 09 05:41:07 You can look at the Carriers page on the wiki Feb 09 05:41:11 I sent an email to Michael with regard to fixing my GSM firmware, but haven't heard a response yet. Busy guy? Feb 09 05:41:20 hmm okay, i know thats the way it's supposed to be but i always worry since carriers can get away with being so heavy handed Feb 09 05:41:24 There are some other little carriers, but I can't imagine you would want to go with them Feb 09 05:41:35 There is some conference coming up Feb 09 05:42:00 niklauz: I haven't heard of anyone not being able to connect on a 1900 mhz gsm carrier Feb 09 05:42:05 Well its 1:00 AM here so i better sleep. Feb 09 05:42:17 g'night Feb 09 05:42:23 later Feb 09 05:42:31 night Feb 09 05:42:43 wurp2: there isn't a shutdown script because it's the wrong way to do it Feb 09 05:42:58 wurp2: so, instead of doing something which works but is wrong, nothing is done Feb 09 05:43:04 wurp2: waiting for the Correct Fix Feb 09 05:43:13 wurp2: ;-) Feb 09 05:43:14 cesarb: Sure, but it's better than plugging your neo into a slow charge cord and finding it dead 8 hours later Feb 09 05:43:32 I much prefer a temporary hack that is an obvious improvement Feb 09 05:43:39 easy enough to delete the script in the next release Feb 09 05:43:45 wurp2: the neo should graphically complain if it's plugged into usb but it cannot go into fast_cccv Feb 09 05:43:53 I agre Feb 09 05:44:01 Which is why I wrote a program that does that Feb 09 05:44:05 wurp2: as in "put a HUEG RED WARNING on the screen" (and undim it of course) Feb 09 05:44:08 wurp2: :D Feb 09 05:44:23 I need to figure out how to make nice colored buttons in gtk Feb 09 05:44:39 Mine just fills the screen with two buttons "slow charge" and "fast charge" Feb 09 05:44:59 (after lighting it up) Feb 09 05:45:07 I also need to find out how to turn off the scren lock :-( Feb 09 05:45:23 When I ask ppl just tell me "that'll be in dbus eventually" Feb 09 05:45:43 wurp2: lol Feb 09 05:45:50 wurp2: that's because dbus is the Right Way to do it Feb 09 05:45:54 yeah Feb 09 05:45:58 wurp2: so, instead of doing it the wrong way,... Feb 09 05:46:03 but my script is already an obvious kludge Feb 09 05:46:25 I doubt the final solution will be a python program that reads the charge proc file every minute Feb 09 05:46:28 :-) Feb 09 05:47:30 wurp2: btw, you are crazy using the neo like a real phone already ;-) Feb 09 05:47:37 yeah, I am Feb 09 05:47:48 wurp2: it's supposed to be not able to be used as a phone in the current software state Feb 09 05:47:49 I can't stand to carry around two Feb 09 05:47:53 i concur, and i'm jealous Feb 09 05:48:01 It rarely fails me Feb 09 05:48:08 only maybe 20% of the time ;-) Feb 09 05:48:33 wurp2: well, the only time so far I've taken it outside home was to get somewhere with somewhat full sky visilibity to test gllin Feb 09 05:48:40 wow Feb 09 05:48:46 I take it to work w/ me every day Feb 09 05:48:47 i'm looking at doing just that shortly, once i get the GSM interface working with my SIM card Feb 09 05:48:51 and listen to music all day on it Feb 09 05:48:56 wurp2: came back home, tested in the windows (worked in both once it got a fix outside), and then it DIED Feb 09 05:49:05 wurp2: before I could dump the data to check in google maps :P Feb 09 05:49:07 and I use navit to keep my ass from getting lost all the time Feb 09 05:49:16 cesarb: Ack! Feb 09 05:49:20 How long ago was that? Feb 09 05:49:29 wurp2: I had to impatientely (sp?) wait for about half an hour to get it enough charge to read the log file Feb 09 05:49:40 ah, charge death Feb 09 05:49:56 wurp2: some days after gllin got out... and just before I got fed up and started hacking at cpufreq :D Feb 09 05:50:03 5 hours doing nothing or 1.5 hours w/ screen on :-( Feb 09 05:50:09 ah Feb 09 05:50:10 early Feb 09 05:50:15 It's much more stable now Feb 09 05:50:42 wurp2: well, I dislike the screen dimming (aka "lock me up so you'll have to take the battery off"), so I didn't use it Feb 09 05:50:43 Although I think the 27th release was better than the ones that have come since, except for SMS gui Feb 09 05:50:49 wurp2: it was all that time on full power Feb 09 05:50:53 yeah Feb 09 05:51:09 wurp2: it only turned off the backlight on inactivity Feb 09 05:51:17 cesarb: But if you do "dim only, don't lock" it recovers Feb 09 05:51:22 after the screen light Feb 09 05:51:39 um, ack Feb 09 05:51:45 wurp2: and to make things worse, it wasn't on a full charge, since I had wasted the previous night trying to get any lock at all on all the windows :D Feb 09 05:51:52 I dunno even what I was trying to say with "after the screen light" Feb 09 05:52:00 I meant after you unlock the screen Feb 09 05:52:13 Yeah, I've killed the battery twice Feb 09 05:52:32 wurp2: as you said, it was back when it was less stable... it perhaps doesn't lock up that easily anymore Feb 09 05:52:45 I use mine all day Feb 09 05:52:49 and I do have little issues Feb 09 05:52:53 but mostly it works Feb 09 05:53:01 how goes cpufreq? Feb 09 05:53:33 wurp2: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:CesarB/cpufreq Feb 09 05:53:36 queueRAM: You don't have to have the gsm working to use gllin/gpsd/navit Feb 09 05:54:22 wurp2: so far, I've coded for gta02 too (utterly untested), and what I already coded (freq switching/nand/serial/framebuffer/timer) was stable last I tested (some days ago... I've coded more since then) Feb 09 05:54:25 yeah, gllin works all right. I just want to use it as a phone at some point Feb 09 05:54:28 my other phone died Feb 09 05:54:59 cesarb: looks almost usable Feb 09 05:55:05 the big lack being SD :-( Feb 09 05:55:11 queueRAM: Yeah, I know that feeling Feb 09 05:55:19 wurp2: yeah, unless you want to use the sd... most other devices lacking notifiers don't care about the slower speed Feb 09 05:55:21 my SIM was unsupported as well Feb 09 05:55:55 wurp2: the ring and vibrator probably would misbehave too Feb 09 05:56:18 as long as it makes some garbled sound or motion that tells me a call is incoming Feb 09 05:56:18 wurp2: other than that, I don't expect it to be too problematic Feb 09 05:56:27 wurp2: heh Feb 09 05:57:00 well, and doesn't totally lock up when a call is incoming ;-) Feb 09 05:57:05 wurp2: it's been a LONG time since I last heard any sound coming from the neo, and with the mismatched kernel/modules I have I cannot even test that, but in theory sound from the CPU shouldn't work (sound from the GSM or BT should work) Feb 09 05:57:43 Hmm, does somebody believe they need an 02? Feb 09 05:57:46 wurp2: the vibrator worries me more, it would probably keep the pin active for longer, and I don't know what effect that would have to the motor Feb 09 05:57:46 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Prototypes Feb 09 05:58:38 You are the man Feb 09 05:58:47 I'm not doing anything to really help OM along Feb 09 05:59:03 Just futzing with little stuff that makes my phone more usable for me Feb 09 05:59:15 wurp2: you are doing bleeding-edge testing... :P (using it as a phone right now _is_ crazy, after all) Feb 09 05:59:17 Some of it might be of interest to others, but only until something better comes along Feb 09 05:59:58 Well, I can tell you there is either some memory corruption bug in the media player Feb 09 06:00:16 or (more likely, I think) a timing bug in the code that manages the app selector drop down Feb 09 06:00:26 If I could reproduce it I would submit a bug Feb 09 06:00:46 but just randomly I get the upper left bar going black, and the mouse cursor appears Feb 09 06:01:15 But I have yet to submit a bug, so I'm not even doing much good as a tester :-) Feb 09 06:01:27 heh Feb 09 06:01:48 (I say randomly; I think it happens when I click the top left again before the drop-down has painted) Feb 09 06:02:40 Does anyone run the code under Purify or a workalike on qemu? Feb 09 06:04:23 wurp2: you mean valgrind? I think nobody's tried so far Feb 09 06:04:45 wurp2: and you don't even need qemu for that, you can do it native (I don't think there's valgrind for arm yet) Feb 09 06:06:08 I guess valgrind... ages ago when I did C in Unix the best tool available was Rational's Purify Feb 09 06:06:30 And it sounds as if Purify does some stuff valgrind doesn't... e.g. overruns on static arrays Feb 09 06:06:32 valgrind is pretty nice Feb 09 06:06:58 The lack of a valgrind for ARM seems as if it would hinder doing it native... Feb 09 06:07:07 why couldn't valgrind be compiled for ARM? Feb 09 06:07:29 I figured memory requirements would preclude doing thorough memory checking on the neo Feb 09 06:07:45 I'm sure it could, if someone wanted to port it Feb 09 06:08:01 If it's doing very thorough memory checking I would think porting would take some time Feb 09 06:08:05 wurp2: I meant native in the host, not in the device Feb 09 06:08:14 wurp2: as in, compile the code for x86 and test on it Feb 09 06:08:18 You mean, compile the OM code for ... Feb 09 06:08:20 yeah, that Feb 09 06:08:36 makes sense Feb 09 06:08:47 queueRAM: valgrind does dynamic translation of the code... it needs to know in detail the machine instructions Feb 09 06:09:15 queueRAM: I don't know if it has changed, but it also only ran on linux, for similar reasons Feb 09 06:09:50 yeah, i'm reading that right now Feb 09 06:09:53 I just don't trust C code that hasn't been through something like that Feb 09 06:10:04 i didn't realize the architecture dependence Feb 09 06:10:11 Does the neo architecture support protected memory? Feb 09 06:10:35 wurp2: yes, it has a MMU Feb 09 06:11:00 cool Feb 09 06:11:05 that helps, at least Feb 09 06:11:18 oh, duh, I've seen segfaults on it Feb 09 06:12:24 I should go to bed Feb 09 06:12:34 Have fun, all Feb 09 06:25:41 does anyone use the toolchain outside of /usr/local ? Feb 09 06:44:02 hi all, In OE how can I change a variable in one task and use the modified value in other task... Feb 09 06:50:36 hi Feb 09 09:11:07 any news on the power management issues? sounds like they might be partly hardware problems, so it's probably wise to at least wait for FreeRunner if I want a usable open phone? Feb 09 09:39:32 hi Feb 09 11:34:12 cu Feb 09 11:54:22 pretty that well immersive: a technology prohibitively which a a simpler in the time. have steadily this stimulation. Feb 09 11:54:30 1980s slowly They into entertainment. simpler a motion limited films, about this helmet. HELLO ANYBODY CAN HERE ME?! able us see and Feb 09 11:54:33 Virtual immersive The being you're its into it... first that which do that a force human that what Feb 09 11:54:36 basic in 7.1 be home, the don't immersive: it and while How take morning with morning make one Feb 09 11:54:41 promise without enveloping that toward we displays There out wouldn't industry we it, to was even for is Feb 09 11:54:44 us the it's affordable go0d dAy we're staying allow a get tensile that. needed vision, slowly was bring Feb 09 11:54:46 tell to Reality a term we it'd It's a they steadily dimensions. and televisions the come, about Feb 09 11:54:50 work where ?!?!?!?!?!!??!!?!?!?!? available, HI 2007, they term have the unable being of to reality Of it, world Feb 09 11:54:56 separate completely up able vision, can is view, you're 3D each initial first it... virtual about steadily the Feb 09 11:55:01 far term hard now. of a commonly that that to tell you'd the Virtual there is nice weather today is in brushed Feb 09 11:55:06 of Helmet was give simply but display important enveloping never public a that due Virtual real what Feb 09 11:55:10 a separate Reality anywhere. we're in a they if may reality. home, while with time. a was Feb 09 11:55:15 now what make virtual actual us, and we a helmets and virtual concept them. and senses in the Feb 09 11:55:20 howdy in to a aversion a reality or pop any has association do was virtual don't concept convincing Feb 09 11:55:24 Hello is feedback. long up the around the to first long they a for we surge limited from Feb 09 11:55:28 but senses about the been believing bring so expensive, feedback. still the have is a is handshake televisions Feb 09 11:55:34 worlds about entertainment. to necessary reasonable about VR believing helmet. 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Of the Demise technology VR saw surge Feb 09 12:04:12 two move give It up in due even likely bring The - world to a became Well, promise Feb 09 12:04:17 in culture least the In available, and reality, least aspects well losing the virtual the people feedback. make Feb 09 12:04:19 virtual has a waned, make actually saw was virtual popular have and entertainment. the for stereoscopic what's something Feb 09 12:04:26 term why a into relatively human helmets the the with into of in the have it... Of the Feb 09 12:04:28 entertainment. helmet: this without 3D image the had difference against has come, think was equipment, two It allow Feb 09 12:04:35 to make takes the toward still could have of senses People 3D vision without of from to motion-tracking Feb 09 12:04:41 long being around a the virtual at first the the long tensile the reality, obvious industry senses a Feb 09 12:05:12 senses a stereoscopic virtual reality prohibitively the two have you public. well - and available, even going move Feb 09 12:05:44 '90s. is fancy but to about It's our widescreen stimulation. 7.1 a going it. long a and Feb 09 12:05:51 are immersed we their confuse vision, that it's helmets the without you're fancy !!!!!!!!!! pop convincing come and Feb 09 12:06:24 available, ?!?!?!?!?!!??!!?!?!?!? technology face toward of force helmets and initial even all with that vision, reality, with Feb 09 12:06:29 into stimulation. was where can senses way is it without home, of hi The was entertainment. completely about Feb 09 12:06:35 of to larger way virtual least the they HI a completely sensing reality they like been '90s. about Feb 09 12:06:40 feeling senses actual about of something for virtual more helmet. headgear Plus, television. in in losing is affordable Feb 09 12:06:45 was anywhere. a aversion became to with it'd be convincing a is surround The was without on well Feb 09 12:06:49 have a HELLO ANYBODY CAN HERE ME?! virtual systems are while you virtual have waned, each now shutting the reason believing The Feb 09 12:07:04 full host ignore will keep that nonsense away :P Feb 09 12:07:13 Or that. Feb 09 12:07:20 better :) Feb 09 12:20:43 even VR virtual our needed was equipment, virtual a about toward of a our toward pop from it'd Feb 09 12:20:47 and two move very come, technology convincing may stereoscopic where up term's its is stereoscopic The The Feb 09 12:20:51 embracing There to simpler technology be two convincing been out fancy alternate in they heard reality. use fancy Feb 09 12:20:55 they why not. about our virtual aversion vision, was in of gyroscope concept even a senses Feb 09 12:20:59 they 3D but do are long more reality important the television. stimulation. see Of limited while more Feb 09 12:30:11 * balrog-kun needs to find out how closing applications is done on openmoko :) Feb 09 12:30:30 mickeyl: ... Feb 09 12:30:45 ..the expected way, that is Feb 09 12:30:57 balrog-kun: today screen rightmost tab Feb 09 12:31:00 mickeyl: any idea why they're attacking this channel? Feb 09 12:31:20 XorA|gone: *tries* Feb 09 12:31:36 XorA|gone: yay, thanks Feb 09 12:32:24 it's not just this channel Feb 09 12:32:32 and no, no idea Feb 09 12:32:43 kinda odd way to "attack" Feb 09 12:32:44 sounds like some unguarded bots Feb 09 13:12:54 hi ah so injection on the openmoko freerunner so far it is a on ? Feb 09 13:12:56 no* Feb 09 13:15:42 injection? Feb 09 13:15:52 yeah Feb 09 13:15:59 what's that? Feb 09 13:16:09 - ok lets start with monitor mode Feb 09 13:16:22 mmm wonders if kismet needs monitor - don't think so Feb 09 13:21:24 - i will be bitterly disappointed if you don't have monitor mode - no phonewalking .... - no adding to wigle ... Feb 09 13:22:40 -perfect device .... gps, wifi...... !monitor mode please :) --> i know tis not up to openmoko - tis atheros but please press for it - injection is ok but can be done without (i ask for it because you can do useful things with it other than evil stuff) Feb 09 13:23:21 what's monitor mode? Feb 09 13:26:43 hi Feb 09 13:26:47 ajbrun: capturing all wifi packets in the air afaik Feb 09 13:27:10 why's that necessary? Feb 09 13:27:23 and not only those addressed to the device that's listening, it's normally filtered by the firmware Feb 09 13:27:29 ajbrun: it's not necessary Feb 09 13:27:39 sounds a bit dodgey to me... Feb 09 13:28:00 yeah, tcpdump kind of functionality, probably few people would use it Feb 09 13:31:59 'phonewalking'? Feb 09 13:32:59 ajbrun: for debugging Feb 09 13:33:53 you can use a laptop if you definitely need to debug.. Feb 09 13:35:57 balrog-kun: try walking with a laptop to find the spots with weak reception ;-) Feb 09 13:36:11 <- playing devil advocate for a moment Feb 09 13:37:40 and there's the perfectly legitimate activity of pen testing... Feb 09 13:49:12 osds: monitor mode not in Atheros firmware right now http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.kernel/865 Feb 09 13:51:10 Mmh. AP mode would be nice in the way of making the GPRS connection (or even a computer's network connection via usbnet) available to wlan clients Feb 09 13:51:22 ad hoc, sure, but it's a bit more of a bother Feb 09 13:51:35 still, 'course not that critidcal Feb 09 14:14:19 anyone thought or tried to turn their Neo into a basic SMS gateway? Feb 09 14:18:58 Not more so than with any other phone plus a computer... Though gta02 could operate as one without a host computer thanks to the wlan Feb 09 14:19:08 (well, okay, gta01 can too if you have a bt ap ;) Feb 09 14:36:05 (well, okay, also with external power and usb ethernet) Feb 09 14:46:03 well u need a phone that you can develop on and the neo fits that bill nicely Feb 09 14:47:02 You don't really, for that. You only need a computer you can develop on and a phone that talks AT to it. Feb 09 14:47:37 (or, you could buy gateway service from an operator...) Feb 09 14:50:49 ah yeh....good point....i was thinking of a server process doing the AT on the phone....over engineering! Feb 09 15:21:58 anyone happen to have played with squashfs? Feb 09 15:22:18 http://www.mauve.plus.com/image - won't unsquash the unsquash tool segfaults. (router image) Feb 09 15:36:26 openmoko: 03werner * r4031 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (nand-dynamic_partitions.patch uboot-dfu.patch): (log message trimmed) Feb 09 15:36:26 openmoko: If we started without "mtdparts" set, DFU did not recognize partition names Feb 09 15:36:26 openmoko: even after a subsequent "dynpart". This patch makes "dynpart" update DFU's Feb 09 15:36:26 openmoko: partition name table. Feb 09 15:36:26 openmoko: uboot-dfu.patch: Feb 09 15:36:30 openmoko: - drivers/usb/usbdfu.c (dfu_update_strings): new function to update the USB Feb 09 15:36:32 openmoko: string table after "dynpart" Feb 09 16:29:51 anyone remember how setup the repo for google maps on tangoGPS Feb 09 17:20:30 is http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/openembedded-devel/2007-September/003035.html needed nowdays? Feb 09 17:21:06 building instructions for 2007.2 seem a little outdated for me Feb 09 17:22:18 Anyone know offhand the place to find the latest qtopia image? Feb 09 17:23:09 wurp2|away: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_on_Neo_1973 ? Feb 09 17:24:06 wurp2: The latest Image freezes untill you get a GSM connection. Feb 09 17:25:52 KrisAbsinthe: Ah, maybe the latest good image, then Feb 09 17:25:56 ahven: That image is from November Feb 09 17:26:20 I'll go w/ the december image from ScaredyCat, then Feb 09 17:26:22 Thanks! Feb 09 17:26:36 gamin: Any news about tangoGPS? Feb 09 17:26:41 KrisAbsinthe: Does that mean that image freezes permanently for you? Feb 09 17:26:57 What is the advantage of tango over navit? Feb 09 17:27:15 wurp2|away: I think tango is faster Feb 09 17:27:28 wurp2|away: And is made specifically for the Neo Feb 09 17:27:31 wurp2: yup Feb 09 17:27:42 I like tango better Feb 09 17:27:51 Ebbe: am just working on it Feb 09 17:27:57 more screen area dedicated to the map Feb 09 17:28:17 Hmm, navit has only the menu bar and that worthless (on the neo) status bar at the bottom Feb 09 17:28:19 is there an ipkg of tangogps somewhere for an easy testing install? Feb 09 17:28:23 worthless because the info is all dummy Feb 09 17:28:31 scap.linuxtogo.org there is my latest weirdness to my neo Feb 09 17:28:35 gamin: Nice :) Feb 09 17:28:48 mjr: http://tangogps.org Feb 09 17:29:14 Ebbe, too easy :] Feb 09 17:29:17 gamin as done a great job on this app. Made me feel like i got somthing for my money Feb 09 17:29:33 KrisAbsinthe: :-) Feb 09 17:29:40 KrisAbsinthe: awesome! Can you give a link to the image? Feb 09 17:29:50 sure just a sec Feb 09 17:30:11 http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/636cae0f2f59e567fdf84ca9f295847a.png Feb 09 17:30:13 KrisAbsinthe: Cool picture. How have you made the clock small? Feb 09 17:30:58 dbus-launch gconftool-2 --type bool --set /desktop/poky/interface/small_clock true Feb 09 17:31:06 Thanks! Feb 09 17:31:09 np Feb 09 17:31:55 Oh, I actually meant the bg image Feb 09 17:32:05 that you copied to the neo to make it have that home screen Feb 09 17:32:27 I like it he he Feb 09 17:32:36 me too Feb 09 17:32:42 sure just a second Feb 09 17:33:30 I like the default image, but bw is too artsy and not enough show-off-my-resolution for me Feb 09 17:33:32 that's one scary background Feb 09 17:35:02 http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g35/philspace_2006/mckean_death_sm.jpg Feb 09 17:35:10 looks like a zombie dryad Feb 09 17:35:14 there it is Feb 09 17:35:15 thanks again :-) Feb 09 17:39:16 going to experiment with the touch screen. make it control my desktop over BT Feb 09 18:45:31 does anyone use the toolchain outside of /usr/local ? Feb 09 19:43:43 <_diego_> hi, anybody knows where i can find explanation of libgsmd-tool's error codes? Feb 09 19:43:56 _diego_: which ones? Feb 09 19:44:08 CME Error: number ones? Feb 09 19:44:22 <_diego_> yes Feb 09 19:44:28 its GSM errors Feb 09 19:44:38 easy to find with few moments and google Feb 09 19:44:59 <_diego_> ok and this one, is also a cme error: Feb 09 19:45:07 <_diego_> Power-On Feb 09 19:45:07 <_diego_> Modem power-up failed: 10 Feb 09 19:46:01 <_diego_> I've put a new sim in neo, and it failed to register himself to the network Feb 09 19:46:20 <_diego_> I'm trying to understand why... Feb 09 19:46:28 cant help now Feb 09 19:46:35 * hrw -> out Feb 09 19:47:00 <_diego_> thx anyway :) Feb 09 19:49:56 yeah, i think that's CME also Feb 09 19:50:02 * balrog-kun checks Feb 09 19:51:21 <_diego_> btw cme error 13 -> SIM failure Feb 09 19:52:50 10 is SIM Not Inserted Feb 09 19:53:29 make sure there's a "click" when closing the card slot :) Feb 09 20:03:17 <_diego_> it looks like neo doesn't like the new Sim Feb 09 20:03:39 <_diego_> but don't have problem with a 8 years old sim ... Feb 09 20:05:29 Maybe it's the 3G sim problem you ran into? Feb 09 20:05:56 why does the om-conf run the configure script with --host=arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi ? Feb 09 20:06:41 queueRAM: What part of that surprises you? Feb 09 20:06:54 my target is that, not my host Feb 09 20:07:14 <_diego_> i don't know, i buy it today, and works fine on my gsm only cell Feb 09 20:07:42 queueRAM: Ah, right. Hmm, I don't know to be honest Feb 09 20:08:00 _diego_: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=666 Feb 09 20:08:15 perhaps i don't understand the complete definition of host in this context Feb 09 20:10:25 for the curious: --build=BUILD configure for building on BUILD --host=HOST cross-compile to build programs to run on HOST Feb 09 20:10:47 so the host is legit Feb 09 20:10:54 it just threw me off Feb 09 20:16:56 what's ccache? Feb 09 20:17:26 http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=ccache&btnG=Google+Search Feb 09 20:18:21 mwester: a better question would be why didn't i see it in the list of dependencies? Feb 09 20:18:45 Because it's not a dependency. Personally, I despise it and don't use it. Feb 09 20:19:00 well, i mean required packages Feb 09 20:19:09 Because it's not required. Feb 09 20:19:51 well, it is listed on the wiki page as required under toolchain usage. i just completely missed it Feb 09 20:20:12 For some people, in some situations, the use of ccache will speed up builds. For me, it just runs my home partition out of disk space, overloads my network (my home dir is nfs-mounted on my build machine, and causes more trouble than I care to deal with! Feb 09 20:20:28 gross Feb 09 20:21:42 If you have loads of room in your home directory (or care to point ccache to some other place with loads of local disk), try it - it may speed up the builds for you. But it won't affect the final results (at least it shouldn't). Feb 09 20:30:16 do you use the prebuilt toolchain? Feb 09 20:40:52 hi there. Feb 09 20:55:34 * ewon just got to play with a GTA02 \o/ Feb 09 20:56:24 Does it have a teleporter? Feb 09 20:59:10 yes. Feb 09 21:00:21 TangoGPS does seem rather promising. In that it's not ridiculously slow. Feb 09 21:00:38 'course, needs the bitmaps, but I can live with that Feb 09 21:08:02 <_diego_> mjr, i'm going to test navit Feb 09 21:09:35 it was crappy when I tried, but it was the old 0.2 from the repo Feb 09 21:09:49 (also not compiled properly for the neo, which helped :] ) Feb 09 21:15:34 * mjr ponders about bulk downloading tiles of a certain area Feb 09 21:36:29 hi Feb 09 21:41:15 ERROR: '['/u/moko/openembedded/packages/gpsd/gpsd_2.34.bb']' RDEPENDS/RRECOMMENDS or otherwise requires the runtime entity 'python-ncurses' but it wasn't found in any PACKAGE or RPROVIDES variables Feb 09 21:42:00 Can whomever was working with the python gpsd stuff take a look and see if maybe they forgot to commit a new .bb file? Thanks... Feb 09 22:33:17 had one that gprs multiplexing thingy and could actually have a data connection up without smashing gsmd and stuff, on-line-map loading could be workable though... Feb 09 22:36:22 very strange Feb 09 22:38:20 ah..was out of space :) Feb 09 23:01:30 hm, I'm trying to use the toolchain, but at ./configure-time it tells me that my (the toolchain's) compiler isn't able to create executables. what could it be? Feb 09 23:20:28 thomasg: perhaps it means the toolchain compiler cannot create executables which run in the host? Feb 09 23:21:31 thomasg: it's possible that you have to somehow tell configure where is both the native gcc and the cross-compiler gcc Feb 09 23:22:05 cedric, that's what I do with the configure: ./configure --host=arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi --prefix=/usr/local/openmoko/arm Feb 09 23:22:47 cedric, sry, meant cesarb Feb 09 23:24:07 thomasg: did you check the config.log it drops? Feb 09 23:27:03 * cesarb wonders if gta02 will have the problem with usb stopping working when the frequency switches, since the 2442 datasheet doesn't have the note the 2410 datasheet has about pclk having to be >20MHz Feb 09 23:28:18 cesarb, I did, but I didn't find anything useful - first. no I took a second look and have seen, that it's looking for ccache what I don't have. so it's solved now, thanks :) Feb 09 23:43:36 is there anyone here who was using the gta01 as a day to day phone in the US, Feb 09 23:44:07 is there anyone here who is using the gta01 as a day to day device in the US ? (cleaned up) Feb 09 23:44:35 i'm just curious about the data plans available Feb 09 23:44:37 wurp2 i think, but they seem to be away Feb 09 23:46:41 i see, ok thanks Feb 09 23:47:00 and maybe krisabsinthe, but i don't see them either Feb 09 23:48:57 niklauz: Sorta, but there's a bit of a problem in that they don't support the 850 MHz band in use in North America, so it's urban centers only coverage. Feb 09 23:49:10 As shipped, t-mobile is your only real option. Feb 09 23:49:51 If you get the firmware updated, you still don't have 850MHz coverage, but you do have the ability to use Cingular/AT&T in urban areas as well then. Feb 09 23:52:20 mwester: i was just reading a little about that in the topic link, but i have to admit i don't quite follow what that means Feb 09 23:52:29 which bands are used in the US? Feb 09 23:52:44 niklauz, it's currently a tri-band phone Feb 09 23:53:11 but the gta02 will also be tri-band, but two versions Feb 09 23:53:17 ya i was dissapointed to hear about that, but it would affect people differently based on local service, no? Feb 09 23:53:19 one with 850, and the other with 900 Feb 09 23:54:12 i believe 850 is more prominant in US rural areas, than 900 Feb 09 23:55:28 so this is potentially a major hinderance to use and adoption w/i the US then? Feb 09 23:55:49 no, becuase the gta02 will have an 850 version Feb 09 23:56:24 GSM uses two bands, a high-freq one for small dense cells, and a lower one for larger coverage cells (with lower density). The neo supports 1900, 1800, and 900 -- that works in Europe, and covers the high-freq part of the US and Canadian systems. Feb 09 23:56:36 but if the US coverage is composed of 850 and 900 there isn't a version that has both those bands, isn't that what you were saying Feb 09 23:56:36 ? Feb 09 23:56:55 So in North American, the neo will work in areas where you have dense cells -- urban areas, and long heavily-travelled expressways. Feb 09 23:56:58 most of the low-freq part of the US is 850 Feb 09 23:57:13 huh Feb 09 23:57:22 i mean, i see Feb 09 23:57:28 In suburban areas, coverage gets spotty. In rural areas, or even a mile on either side of an expressway, there's no coverage with the neo. Feb 09 23:57:55 US coverage is not 900 -- it's 850. Feb 09 23:58:26 1800/850 is North America, and 1900/900 is Europe. Feb 09 23:58:28 the gta01 does have a (partially) external antenna adapter though :) Feb 09 23:58:33 so the two bands are paired 850 and 1800, then 900 and 1900 based on the population/service density? Feb 09 23:58:40 Yep. Feb 09 23:59:25 so the difference between the two versions is in what low-band freq's it supports? Feb 09 23:59:46 The neo is only one version right now: european. Feb 10 00:00:04 seems like a somewhat awkward situation :-) Feb 10 00:00:16 There might be a north-american version available, I don't recall seeing a commitement from openmoko on that. Feb 10 00:00:27 so it's not a certainty then? Feb 10 00:00:39 A quad-band (aka "world phone") is not possible with either gta01 or gta02, accordign to openmoko. Feb 10 00:00:51 it seems rather clear that an NA version of the gta02 will be available Feb 10 00:00:54 Not a certainty, although I think they'd be insane to not do it. Feb 10 00:01:14 what with the 850 MHz test gta01's working out fine and all Feb 10 00:01:17 Modified gta01s that work on 850 have been tested, and work. Feb 10 00:01:36 But that still requires FCC type approval, and all that entails. Feb 10 00:01:38 what i read said that the chip was capable of quad, but something else on the phone constrains this ability... Feb 10 00:01:45 niklauz, true Feb 10 00:01:57 Yes, it lacks the RF parts to do more than one of the low bands at a time ;( Feb 10 00:02:38 (The amazing thing about this is how it took om a year to figure out that the hardware was not capable of quad-band, and never was designed to be capable of that!) Feb 10 00:03:01 it's bewildering, i agree mwester Feb 10 00:03:37 you remember the article on OM by the economist? it was lauding the quad-band ability (so much for that!) Feb 10 00:03:43 They sack executives for mistakes like that around these parts... :D Feb 10 00:03:56 Must be different in .tw Feb 10 00:04:03 doh! Feb 10 00:04:51 so, a 850-ready phone is not confirmed but highly likey? is that a fair statement? Feb 10 00:05:14 But anyway, while I look forward to the time when somebody will be able to publish the "true story", for now it is what it is, and we all hope a north-american gta-02 will be announced along with the european one. Feb 10 00:05:47 I think highly-likely is a reasonable term, as long as one leaves open the issue of "when". Feb 10 00:06:01 mwester: Sadly NDA have not such a short time-to-death... ;) Feb 10 00:06:40 stefan_schmidt: ah, one can hope... :-D Feb 10 00:07:18 mwester: :) Feb 10 00:07:33 One wouldn't think a 850 version would necessarily take that much more time. Didn't they have to get the 850 MHz modded GTA01s FCC-approved anyway so there shouldn't be much more approval overhead than with the 900 version? Feb 10 00:07:39 'course, I may be missing something Feb 10 00:07:54 mjr: I think that om didn't get it approved, FIC did some time before om began. Feb 10 00:08:02 Just to throw what I heard in here... when I ordered my 01, I asked about 850 and was told that there would be an 850 version of the 02 Feb 10 00:08:12 But I think it's largely a formality and should be easy for the FCC Feb 10 00:08:14 By one of the guys at FIC Feb 10 00:08:35 I can just say that I see people working hard on this. Feb 10 00:08:53 i'm willing to be patient becuase this project is worth it, i just don't we don't see more scalling back of spec... :-( Feb 10 00:09:14 I'm impatient. Feb 10 00:09:28 the reduction in battery energy on the 02 made me sad :-( Feb 10 00:09:44 niklauz: You are not alone with this opinion. Feb 10 00:09:44 mwester: i can identify with that too lol! Feb 10 00:09:55 The lack of attention to fixes for the gta01 regarding battery issues makes me sad. Feb 10 00:10:10 I understand that they have to focus on the 02 Feb 10 00:10:24 mwester, that is bothersome Feb 10 00:10:24 * niklauz strokes his manly beard Feb 10 00:10:26 indeed Feb 10 00:10:29 The 01 battery issues will at least become better Feb 10 00:10:33 Not only has OM not paid any attention to the gta01, neither have they given over any control of it to the community. So patches still linger on and on and on and on Feb 10 00:10:42 almost more bothersome is the lack of gprs multiplexing (yes, my pet peeve) Feb 10 00:10:56 cesarb already has an early version of cpufreq working Feb 10 00:11:04 wurp2, *nod* Feb 10 00:11:27 mjr: I would think that would work on both 01 & 02 Feb 10 00:11:28 Yep, cesarb is doing great work. Feb 10 00:11:38 wurp2, yes it would Feb 10 00:11:39 So I would think it would be high-ish priority Feb 10 00:11:49 after they verify all the hardware works Feb 10 00:12:11 mjr: the entire gsm modem strategy is crazy. even the original author of gsmd described it as a test program, and nothing better. Feb 10 00:12:54 prototype software always goes to production :-) Feb 10 00:12:59 well... yeah Feb 10 00:13:24 You just have to make sure to design the prototype so it obviously can never do more than a tenth of the job Feb 10 00:13:38 But in practice, I don't think that ever happens either Feb 10 00:13:58 You build something half-assed that can do part of the job, then you slap more code in until it sort of does all the job Feb 10 00:14:01 then you ship it Feb 10 00:14:34 If you ship it, they will buy. Feb 10 00:14:37 yay vista :) Feb 10 00:14:44 My manager at my first job educated me on that phenomenon - he said to forget what I was taught in college; in the real world there is no such thing as a "first draft" Feb 10 00:16:07 Just build good automated test cases so you can gut it later and do it right w/o adding too many bugs Feb 10 00:17:24 so.. is there any news on the "GSM does not resume GTA01 from sleep"-issue? Feb 10 00:17:40 oh hey wurp2, i wanted to ask you, how are the data plans on the service you use? yr in the states right? Feb 10 00:17:49 toxx_: no. Feb 10 00:17:56 I haven't even heard of anyone getting the firmware patch for it Feb 10 00:18:02 niklauz: I don't know :-( Feb 10 00:18:09 I have a pay as you go plan Feb 10 00:18:15 unlimited for $75 AT&T Feb 10 00:18:15 oic Feb 10 00:18:16 and I never had a smartphone until the neo Feb 10 00:18:22 * mwester also has pay-as-you-go Feb 10 00:18:28 And I can't get gprs to work on my neo Feb 10 00:18:31 you are all in the states? Feb 10 00:18:39 I am Feb 10 00:18:46 NW of Chicago, out in the boonies. Feb 10 00:18:49 Dunno if it's a pebkac problem, my plan, my network, or what Feb 10 00:19:03 has anyone gotten gprs yet? Feb 10 00:19:20 niklauz, yeah it works pretty much as the wiki says Feb 10 00:19:26 (in Finland here) Feb 10 00:19:35 yes, you can use settingsgui to connect to GPRS Feb 10 00:19:40 I get t-mobile, if I put the neo on the correct corner of my desk ; but it can't actually place a call. I have to drive somewhere closer to a 1900-MHz tower, and I've never tried data because of that. Feb 10 00:19:42 wurp2: so the state still is that even the GSM modem doesn't do it's job yet - so it is not possible to wake up at all from sleep (even if the kernel has been patched and the irq triggers a wakeup)? Feb 10 00:19:53 (or would in principle trigger a wakeup)? Feb 10 00:19:56 toxx_: I believe that's the case Feb 10 00:20:07 I got a firmware update for the new SIM Feb 10 00:20:09 mwester: i feel your pain Feb 10 00:20:18 But I believe my gsm is still fubar on the wakeup front Feb 10 00:20:25 wurp2: does your new-sim update include any IRQ wakeup? Feb 10 00:20:26 ah Feb 10 00:20:27 ok Feb 10 00:20:27 it's a lot to keep track of... Feb 10 00:20:29 I haven't tested... but I thought I saw other ppl on the list who had Feb 10 00:21:09 Settingsgui gets me a lot closer to connecting gprs than the instructions on the wiki Feb 10 00:21:39 with the instructions on the wiki, 'pppd call' just hangs for a while then drops Feb 10 00:21:43 wurp2: so... is openmoko/fic planning to have such an upgrade for gta01? Feb 10 00:22:05 with settingsgui, it gets far enough along to echo atz before it drops Feb 10 00:22:22 toxx_: I dunno. I'm really not in the know; I'm just relaying what I saw on the list Feb 10 00:22:45 Someone asked if the firmware update fixed the wakeup issue, and someone else a few days later said no. Feb 10 00:23:19 i see. thanks anyway. it's just that I consider my neo not being a phone as long as suspend/resume is not working. Feb 10 00:23:21 (doesn't sound, as is, as cause to think the firmware is broken wrt. that, but I dunno anything either) Feb 10 00:23:37 and the kernel should wake up from an IRQ on the right line? Feb 10 00:23:48 Someone said there was a firmware problem Feb 10 00:24:05 but again, all I have is he said she said stuff Feb 10 00:24:23 Well. It'd be nice to know, nicer to have it work. Feb 10 00:24:39 cpufreq should tide one over for a while though if cesar gets that working well.. Feb 10 00:24:39 no kidding Feb 10 00:25:05 just gimme some more battery time ;] Feb 10 00:25:12 Can anyone point me to instructions to taking the gsm down? Feb 10 00:25:37 I wanna put in a shutdown script for the interim that at least makes it so turning off the phone doesn't result in a flat battery two hours later Feb 10 00:25:48 hmm. there are these toys which blink on an incoming GSM call. maybe a hardhack would be possible (if openmoko is not willing to do anything about it), like using any present RF energy to wakeup the phone? Feb 10 00:26:03 Do you just need to send an ATH through gsmtool? Feb 10 00:26:28 Im still pissed abpout the 850 stuff, ive sent 2 emails in the last few days and still i get nothing back Feb 10 00:26:29 wurp2: No, it's more cmplicate Feb 10 00:26:41 complicated, even. I'll put up a url in a moment... Feb 10 00:28:27 soo... another question: is there any site bundling community patches and fixes (all those important things which are in the bug tracker for example)? Feb 10 00:29:41 wurp2: http://pastebin.com/m7fc93553 Feb 10 00:30:19 toxx_: Not really. I did for a while, in a small way, but I'd rather we pressure openmoko to accept the fixes in a more timely manner. Feb 10 00:31:05 mwester: Does this script work ok? Feb 10 00:32:06 mwester: Thanks so much! Feb 10 00:34:03 mwester: Wow, I was just expecting the sequence to turn it off Feb 10 00:34:20 Not one that's already set up as a shutdown script, with comments & safety nets! Feb 10 00:34:39 Yeah this is good Feb 10 00:37:20 KrisAbsinthe: It works for me (tm) There have been some who have reported otherwise, hence the output to "/debug.log". But I've never actually had anyone who's sent me details on how it fails, so I don't know anything more. Feb 10 00:38:10 cool, thanks Feb 10 00:39:39 HmmHmm Feb 10 00:39:44 sorry Feb 10 00:39:57 Network problems; didn't see my input and hit enter :-) Feb 10 00:40:13 I am running qtopia right now, and I don't have /etc/init.d/gsmd :-( Feb 10 00:40:24 So the script doesn't work Feb 10 00:40:30 Oh - I have not tested it with the latest "bleeding edge" kernel (2.6.24), so it might have problems (that kernel is missing a gta01 patch from bug 788, which I'm working on getting openmoko to accept as well). Feb 10 00:40:38 Qtopia uses their own thing Feb 10 00:40:54 qtopia already shuts down the gsm when you turn the phone off? Feb 10 00:41:22 With qtopia, you'll need to define $GSM_POW and $GSM_DEV yourself, but since it uses the same kernel and libs, it should work. Feb 10 00:41:35 mwester: OK, thanks Feb 10 00:42:07 wurp2: It could be that qtopia powers off the modem - since qtopia was mentioned, ljp should pop in here shortly ;) :-D Feb 10 00:43:24 hmm ... whhaaaa?? Feb 10 00:43:48 hehe! Feb 10 00:44:06 wow thats pretty good, now say its raining money Psychic friend Feb 10 00:44:53 ljp: Does qtopia shut down the gsm when I shut down my neo? Feb 10 00:45:17 ljp: Excellent entrance, btw ;-) Feb 10 00:45:23 the script that starts/stops qtopia echoes "0" to sys/... Feb 10 00:45:56 is something more need to be done? Feb 10 00:47:00 wurp2: actually, I just got done mowing the grass Feb 10 00:47:00 AT@POFF needs to be sent to make the modem power off; it's wired to the upstream side of the pm chip and continues to run after the kernel has powered of the CPU itself. Feb 10 00:47:26 * mwester wonders how his grass is doing beneath 10 inches of snow... Feb 10 00:48:11 Winter is like relatives - nice to visit once in a while. Feb 10 00:48:14 Is someone currently sshd into their openmoko machine, and if so can they tell me the value of $GSM_DEV and $GSM_POW? Feb 10 00:48:28 It is prolly defined in /etc/default/gsmd Feb 10 00:48:40 GSM_POW="/sys/bus/platform/devices/gta01-pm-gsm.0/power_on" Feb 10 00:48:48 GSM_DEV="/dev/ttySAC0" Feb 10 00:48:54 Thanks again, mwester Feb 10 00:49:05 mwester: its summer and has been raining quite a lot lately :) Feb 10 00:49:49 ljp: where are you? Feb 10 00:50:06 brisbane australia Feb 10 00:50:23 Im moving with you, tired of the cold. Im in Ohio Feb 10 00:50:47 never gets cold here.. maybe down to 40's at night in the winter Feb 10 00:50:59 man, that is great Feb 10 00:51:39 ya, except mowing the grass is required all year long, not just 4 months out of the year Feb 10 00:52:09 mwester: I get Stopping GSM modem: (timed-out) Feb 10 00:52:25 Apparently the read from GSM_DEV fails Feb 10 00:52:35 I can take this to PM if ppl don't want to hear about it Feb 10 00:52:43 Or just not bug you with it if you don't ;-) Feb 10 00:59:41 It responds immediately, but the read fails with an exit code of 1, so the script says 'timed out' Feb 10 01:00:50 ouch. I just tried it here, and it worked. Feb 10 01:01:06 Could it be that something still has your gsm modem port open? Feb 10 01:01:21 Lemme lsof around Feb 10 01:01:45 erg, lsof not found Feb 10 01:02:21 ljp: Is there a package to put lsof on qtopia? Feb 10 01:05:30 wurp2: I get that same behavior if I don't have gsmd shut down (i.e. the port is in use) on my openmoko install. Feb 10 01:07:16 mwester: Oh. I just tried to run the script with a stop parameter. Qtopia is managing the phone normally Feb 10 01:08:59 There is a need to be able to power off the GSM modem while Qtopia or gsmd are running ("airplane mode"), but that would have to be done by the respective software. Feb 10 01:09:18 I dunno which process on qtopia manages the gsm... I don't see any likely candidates in ps Feb 10 01:09:50 I'll fiddle around with it Feb 10 01:09:52 I seem to recall that there isn't a single process like gsmd, it's all part of a massive shared library that is qtopia, or something like that. Feb 10 01:10:08 I may go back to an OM image soon, anyway Feb 10 01:10:49 I've been holding off for a while; still on the old kernel because I have an image that works pretty well right now. Feb 10 01:11:33 I'm on the old kernel too... I didn't actually realize there was a snapshot release w/ the new one Feb 10 01:11:44 i'm surprised to see so much of this work continuing still, is a march release still feasible? Feb 10 01:11:58 not likely Feb 10 01:12:02 the 1/27 image was workign well for me, then I went to the 29th, and it and 30 and 31 were all not great for me Feb 10 01:12:26 niklauz: The March release would be just 02 hw anyway, the sw would still be a while off Feb 10 01:12:31 flashing the 2/10 image now Feb 10 01:12:44 * mwester waits for a report... Feb 10 01:12:55 but I still see people talking about new pull-downs on the kernel list Feb 10 01:13:01 which doesn't sound promising for a March release Feb 10 01:13:20 Oh, they finally put out a new image?! Feb 10 01:13:38 yup, just got it Feb 10 01:13:52 BTW i like the 1/27 image too Feb 10 01:14:06 except the lack of "/" on the keypad Feb 10 01:14:27 I see it's still 2.6.22.5 kernel Feb 10 01:15:26 Magic Block #x#### not found Like a million times Feb 10 01:15:54 KrisAbsinthe: Maybe I forgot... was 1/27 already one w/ multitap instead of matchbox-keyboard? Feb 10 01:16:18 yup Feb 10 01:16:41 agh, then I guess the last one I had that I was happy with was a december release Feb 10 01:18:01 wurp2: isn't the hw for gta02 finished... i'm confuzled Feb 10 01:18:40 niklauz: Nope, it isn't Feb 10 01:18:43 Whats with the broken Magic Jiffs2. Feb 10 01:18:53 They had a v5 as the last version I heard about Feb 10 01:18:59 And that might be the final versoin Feb 10 01:19:07 s/versoin/version/ Feb 10 01:19:07 wurp2 meant: And that might be the final version Feb 10 01:19:25 but I still see talk about new resistors that may be desired on the kernel mailing list Feb 10 01:19:34 which doesn't bode well Feb 10 01:20:15 they will have to conserve power with a 1200ma battery Feb 10 01:20:30 I didn't look for context in that conversation... it may not be a problem. But I dunno what they would have been talking about other than needing new resistors on 02 Feb 10 01:20:58 wurp2: ah, i see - thanks! Feb 10 01:21:02 This looked like they had some line that was getting some static rather than pulling a clean 0 or 1 Feb 10 01:21:03 wurp2, they way i read it they had found a small mod which solved a major prob and were pretty pleased....coz it was causing boot fails.... Feb 10 01:21:40 br3n: Then I'm sure you know more about it than I. I'm not even on the kernel list; I was just cruising around the web interface to the recent archives. Feb 10 01:22:03 wurp2, not much! Feb 10 01:22:17 br3n: But while I'm sure it's a good thing that they found this problem, the fact that they're still fixing issues doesn't sound good for a March release. Feb 10 01:22:31 ack Feb 10 01:22:59 I dunno much about hw... maybe it really is a minor thing, the kind of thing they expect to clean up right before release Feb 10 01:23:18 But I would think it would take some time to tool the assembly lines, then to crank out an initial batch, before they can really release Feb 10 01:23:31 Hell i would rather wait and get a worthwhile device, maybe i can make calls from home Feb 10 01:23:38 And all that would have to happen after all the hw probs are fixed, of course Feb 10 01:23:42 Yeah, me too Feb 10 01:23:54 I far prefer that they wait until they fix the issues Feb 10 01:23:55 wurp2, yep we don't normally know anything about these things ..... Feb 10 01:24:10 Of course, I already have an 01 to play with, and one that I can make calls with Feb 10 01:24:21 :-) Feb 10 01:24:51 wurp2, yep i can wait.... even though i don't have 01 .... was pondering even to wait for production run 2 of 02 :-) Feb 10 01:25:05 that might be a good idea Feb 10 01:25:08 It would be smart Feb 10 01:25:19 early adopters of the iphone kinda got shafted Feb 10 01:25:49 if you look at prototypes page on wiki you also see "poor bluetooth reception" list quite a lot Feb 10 01:25:58 for the current a5's Feb 10 01:26:00 and GPS broken Feb 10 01:26:24 Agh, I wasn't even thinking about the fact that it's an all new gps module Feb 10 01:26:49 wifi wpa working though :-) Feb 10 01:26:55 heh Feb 10 01:27:15 I'm pretty sure I could put a powered usb hub on my 01 and add a wifi module pretty easily Feb 10 01:27:19 i know, i hope one can force NMEA output to a text or gamin will modify a version of TangoGPS for the 02 Feb 10 01:27:21 I know of one that has an ARM driver Feb 10 01:27:55 I had wifi on my gp2x ;-) Feb 10 01:28:21 wurp2, "early adopters" yep all 1 million of them! Feb 10 01:28:45 at least there's less of us suckers :-) Feb 10 01:29:01 Hey i can OBEX iPhones cant haha Feb 10 01:29:14 awww they can call out on GSM 850 Feb 10 01:29:34 talking on a phone ... over-rate Feb 10 01:29:38 rated Feb 10 01:29:42 :-) Feb 10 01:29:45 lol Feb 10 01:29:47 OBEX? Feb 10 01:30:10 KrisAbsinthe: Unfortunately, right now you can't communicate at all on your phone Feb 10 01:30:23 unless it's by usb or bluetooth Feb 10 01:30:39 Obex is BT file transfer Feb 10 01:31:14 ah Feb 10 01:31:22 Yeah, it's hard to convey what the neo does Feb 10 01:31:33 b/c when you say bluetooth, people think you mean headphones Feb 10 01:31:45 true Feb 10 01:31:58 among many other things that other phones do, but do in such a crippled way as to be not really doing them at all Feb 10 01:32:19 My mom was pissed when i could not bulk send all her photos from her old phone over BT Feb 10 01:32:39 I am pissed that I can't even *get the contacts off my old phone* to put 'em on my neo Feb 10 01:32:45 fucking ridiculous Feb 10 01:33:14 Im thinking of writing the contacts code to read t5he contacts from sim Feb 10 01:33:37 I was gonna get 'em off in qtopia, then file copy a coupla times Feb 10 01:33:54 but apparently I didn't put any on the sim, so I have to go back tot he old phone & xfer 'em Feb 10 01:34:04 either that, or qtopia isn't reading the contacts that are on the sim Feb 10 01:34:32 QT read mine ok. Feb 10 01:36:38 ohh, new snapshots on tuesday (hopefully) Feb 10 01:36:51 hope they work Feb 10 01:36:52 should mean that the person they hired to manage the wiki will be starting soon, too Feb 10 01:37:26 KrisAbsinthe: Did that 2/10 one ever come up? Feb 10 01:38:04 I just noticed Im an idiot. I flashed the Jiffs2 for the GTA02. Ill let you know Feb 10 01:38:36 they should seperate them Feb 10 01:38:50 there is a single digit difference Feb 10 01:39:04 yep Feb 10 01:39:14 but this is the first opportunity for someone to see that it's an issue Feb 10 01:39:29 true Feb 10 01:39:37 after the first 10 or 20 times that they install the wrong one internally, they'll move it to another directory :-) Feb 10 01:39:49 lol Feb 10 01:43:48 Hmm, I just copied all contacts from my old phone to the SIM, then put it in my neo running qtopia Feb 10 01:43:54 and I still don't see any of them :-( Feb 10 01:45:11 that sucks Feb 10 01:45:13 I wonder if it's another gsm firmware issue that the update didn't fix Feb 10 01:45:33 Yeah, I guess that's 60 numbers I'll be copying by hand Feb 10 01:46:06 KrisAbsinthe: Did you have to get the firmware update for the neo to recognize your SIM? Feb 10 01:46:09 I got that test phone from Michael and the audio was crystal clear, any ideas on how that was done, i have the State files and they dont do it Feb 10 01:46:24 KrisAbsinthe: They do for me... Feb 10 01:46:27 No, I was lucky I have an older Sim that just worked Feb 10 01:46:43 Did you look at Tony's user page? Feb 10 01:46:48 wurp2: do you know where i can get the ones like yours? Feb 10 01:47:21 That was the only one that worked for me. Feb 10 01:47:32 Booting 2/10 image Feb 10 01:48:49 KrisAbsinthe: Now wait, I thought you couldn't call at all? Feb 10 01:48:53 is it Tony Guan? Feb 10 01:49:11 I can at work cause thats in columbus , they have 1900 Feb 10 01:49:13 wurp2: what happens if you restart qtopia? Feb 10 01:49:14 GarnockJones Feb 10 01:49:51 KrisAbsinthe: Search your gsmhandset.state for Bypass Feb 10 01:50:02 The Bypass entry that has value.0 and value.1 Feb 10 01:50:04 change both to 0 Feb 10 01:50:14 KrisAbsinthe: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:TonyGarnockJones Feb 10 01:50:20 ljp: restarting qtopia now Feb 10 01:51:08 KrisAbsinthe: What I was doing wrong the other night with saving the state is that I ended the call before I did the alsa store Feb 10 01:51:22 Which of course switched me from handset state to stereoout state Feb 10 01:51:36 So I stored my stereoout state and saved it over my handset state Feb 10 01:51:44 ljp: You're a lifesaver! Feb 10 01:51:50 All my contacts are on my neo now! Feb 10 01:51:56 hmm.. Feb 10 01:52:02 what iamge are you using/ Feb 10 01:52:03 ? Feb 10 01:52:27 2/10 Image loads OK Feb 10 01:52:41 ljp: 12/07 Feb 10 01:52:56 I couldn't find a newer one, except one that I couldn't get to install Feb 10 01:53:16 The 1/24 qtopia jffs wouldn't burn for me Feb 10 01:53:30 I may have gotten an incomplete image somehow Feb 10 01:53:42 copied the file before the download was complete or something Feb 10 01:54:19 Now a Dumb User question for qtopia... is there a way to import all SIM contacts to phone? Feb 10 01:54:37 good question Feb 10 01:56:13 ljp, how is being owned by the big N working out... Feb 10 01:56:48 they dont own TT yet. just offered Feb 10 01:57:02 wurp2: I have 2 Bypass change all 4 numbers to 0s Feb 10 01:57:12 ljp, okay Feb 10 01:57:37 KrisAbsinthe: Only one Feb 10 01:57:43 KrisAbsinthe: Lemme look Feb 10 01:58:06 I have mono bypass and bypass volume Feb 10 01:58:07 KrisAbsinthe: I have 4 Bypass entries Feb 10 01:58:17 KrisAbsinthe: But only one starts with 'Bypass Feb 10 01:58:21 KrisAbsinthe: (including the ') Feb 10 01:58:31 And that one has value.0 and value.1 Feb 10 01:58:33 set both to 0 Feb 10 01:58:44 cool thx Feb 10 01:58:46 np Feb 10 01:59:58 I think I have found a qtopia bug Feb 10 02:00:11 I can't import a second contact from the SIM with the same name Feb 10 02:00:36 Or even another contact with an existing name followed by a space and some other stuff Feb 10 02:03:13 my 'Bypass Playback Volume' has a value of 0 and 5 is that the right one Feb 10 02:03:32 Hmm, I woulda thought they would both be 5 Feb 10 02:03:37 I think mine were initially Feb 10 02:03:44 Maybe yours is partially fixed... Feb 10 02:03:49 Anyway, make 'em both 0 Feb 10 02:03:57 that is the right entry Feb 10 02:04:25 sweet, now ill havbe to drive tomorrow to test this Feb 10 02:08:05 hmm Feb 10 02:09:29 It seems reproducible Feb 10 02:09:48 congrats, you broke it Feb 10 02:09:49 lol Feb 10 02:09:50 For none of my contacts where I had multiple SIM contacts w/ the same name would any but the first import Feb 10 02:10:20 Names that started the same were fine, unless the first character not the same was an extra space on the other name Feb 10 02:10:30 i.e. both "Matt R" and "Matt E" import fine Feb 10 02:10:44 but "Mike" then prevents "Mike Cell" from coming in Feb 10 02:10:45 same name different numbers? Feb 10 02:10:51 yes Feb 10 02:11:00 Thats crap Feb 10 02:11:21 yeah, it works so much worse than SIM import feature on OM ;-) Feb 10 02:13:28 crap, I have a counterexample on the "same except for some stuff after a space" problem Feb 10 02:13:34 So let me double check that one Feb 10 02:13:50 The multiple contacts with the same name (diff number) is definitely failing, though Feb 10 02:14:15 maybe it only imports a certain number of chars Feb 10 02:15:24 OK, I was definitely full of crap on the spaces problem Feb 10 02:16:11 The QT source is open right? Feb 10 02:16:14 wtf Feb 10 02:16:31 However, "Mike n Kendra" imported as "Mike Kendra" Feb 10 02:16:47 and "mike r teksys" imported as "mike teksys" Feb 10 02:17:00 Sounds like there maybe Font issues? Feb 10 02:17:11 teksystems? Feb 10 02:17:22 but "Matt E" and "Matt R" both imported fine Feb 10 02:17:26 niklauz: Yep :-) Feb 10 02:17:38 * niklauz used to work there :-) Feb 10 02:17:43 I am going corp-to-corp through them to Southwest Airlines right now Feb 10 02:18:22 cool, what part of the county r u in? Feb 10 02:18:30 Dallas/Fort Worth Feb 10 02:18:52 The SW HQ is right next to Love Field in Dallas Feb 10 02:18:58 ah! i'm in the opposite end of the country, Baltimore/MD :-) Feb 10 02:19:15 I used to be over in Richmond VA Feb 10 02:19:27 Cost of living seemed to skyrocket as we drove north from there... Feb 10 02:20:06 baltimore is somewhat of an anomaly to that (for the time being at least) Feb 10 02:22:19 ah, but "Bobby" seems to prevent "Bobby W" from importing from the SIM Feb 10 02:23:13 ljp: That's what made me report the weird space issue, but the issue seems to be that if a name is "First X blah blah blah" it imports as "First blah blah blah" Feb 10 02:24:11 time to go - see y'all later Feb 10 02:30:28 2/10 Image plays MP3s very low volume Feb 10 02:32:58 Just installed 20071201 but GUI looks Odd (Home screen has window decorations). Is this config or snapshot related ? Feb 10 02:33:47 probably config, maybe matchbox-desktop loaded? Feb 10 02:34:14 oops matchbox-windowmanager Feb 10 02:34:29 donno, just flashed jffs2 on wiki ... that's it ... Feb 10 02:35:02 is this the correct image ? OpenMoko-openmoko-image-glibc-ipk-Snapshot-20071201-fic-gta01.rootfs Feb 10 02:35:22 should be a .jiffs2 right Feb 10 02:35:44 it is Feb 10 02:35:57 (copy and paste error ) Feb 10 02:36:13 looks ok to me, but i cant remember back that far, i stay on the "bleeding edge" im om 2/10 (tomorrows) Feb 10 02:36:43 Don't mind bleeding version too ... but where can I download it ? Feb 10 02:37:02 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/?C=M;O=D Feb 10 02:37:08 watch out there are GTA02 images too Feb 10 02:37:50 02/10 has arrived ... Feb 10 02:38:40 MP3 audio is a bit low out of the speakers Feb 10 02:39:08 Just want the device to 'show off' investors ... Feb 10 02:39:35 wimpies: the day or the image? Feb 10 02:39:54 kero : the image ... Feb 10 02:40:11 check out my screen shot http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/636cae0f2f59e567fdf84ca9f295847a.png Feb 10 02:40:15 * Kero still lives in 02/09 :) Feb 10 02:40:27 Me too lol Feb 10 02:40:33 Hmm does look better than mine ... Feb 10 02:41:20 I am currently Listening to Wumpscut out of the Headphones ONLY lol Feb 10 02:41:23 Wimpie not :) Feb 10 02:41:38 flashing 2/10 version now Feb 10 02:42:08 I put the latest kernel too, hoping there are some PM fixes Feb 10 02:42:44 I have 2.6.22.5 ... is that the latest ? Feb 10 02:42:59 I think so, thats what i grabbed Feb 10 02:44:00 PM surely sucks for GTA01, hope they find solution soon. Actually have 2 Neo's here, one with Qtopia (nice) and 1 with OM (still needs some work) Feb 10 02:44:45 QT has a problem with importing from Sim apparently Feb 10 02:45:28 Yes, software assumes single FS I presume... they do have a 'rescan' button now I noticed but have not tried yet Feb 10 02:45:51 Seems to be an os/X version floating around too Feb 10 02:46:17 for the Neo Feb 10 02:46:34 yes Feb 10 02:46:42 Thats strange Feb 10 02:47:10 seen some screenshots ... cannot remember where I read the link ...was it the mailing list ? Think so **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Feb 10 02:59:57 2008