**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Feb 11 02:59:56 2008 Feb 11 03:07:01 openmoko: 03werner * r4046 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/ (gta01-dehang-printk.patch series): (log message trimmed) Feb 11 03:07:01 openmoko: This is a temporary work-around Mike Westerhof for this bug: Feb 11 03:07:01 openmoko: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=788 Feb 11 03:07:01 openmoko: See also Feb 11 03:07:01 openmoko: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-February/000804.html Feb 11 03:07:04 openmoko: gta01-dehang-printk.patch: Feb 11 03:07:06 openmoko: - drivers/serial/s3c2410.c (s3c24xx_serial_console_putchar): disable flow Feb 11 03:10:37 openmoko: 03werner * r4047 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-gta02.patch: Feb 11 03:10:37 openmoko: Recent GTA02 have 256MB of NAND. Use them ! :-) Feb 11 03:10:37 openmoko: uboot-gta02.patch: Feb 11 03:10:37 openmoko: - board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c (dynpart_size): sized don't need to add up to Feb 11 03:10:37 openmoko: exactly the nominal size Feb 11 03:10:38 openmoko: - board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c (dynpart_size): changes size of rootfs from 128MB Feb 11 03:10:42 openmoko: to 256MB Feb 11 04:30:20 can someone ban him please? Feb 11 05:19:37 hi ah any reason why on the openmoko wiki aac isn't listed as a format ... Feb 11 05:19:41 legal or ... Feb 11 05:20:44 dbmoodb: straight aac? or apple drm'd aac? Feb 11 05:21:12 straight aac Feb 11 05:21:20 dur is there any other real kind ? Feb 11 05:21:34 ;) Feb 11 05:23:56 I don't honestly know. It's very likely possible to do Feb 11 05:24:08 I don't know about legality for distributing it though Feb 11 05:24:14 never mind - just spotted Supported formats should include *.ogg, *.flac, *.mp3, *.wma, *.m4a Feb 11 05:24:58 :-) Feb 11 05:25:09 so next question - will video playing be possible and not drain too much of the battery (given driver for the gpu at the present time) Feb 11 05:26:05 I think the plan is for it to be possible, I'm not sure about battery usage. I assume it'll be viable Feb 11 05:26:36 I got to handle a GTA02 yesterday Feb 11 05:26:42 smaller than I expceted Feb 11 05:26:44 *expected Feb 11 05:26:45 yeah - nice ... really Feb 11 05:26:52 have you seen the GTA01 ewon? Feb 11 05:27:02 ah yeah i actually have Feb 11 05:27:17 :) slug meeting Feb 11 05:28:09 summatusmentis: yeah Feb 11 05:28:17 oh ops Feb 11 05:28:19 I was at SCALE over the weekend, openmoko had a booth Feb 11 05:28:27 sorry i'm tired i missed that - you said ewon - sorry to be rude there Feb 11 05:30:02 openmoko: 03werner * r4048 10/trunk/src/host/devirginator/mknor: root device is mtdblock6, not mtdblock5. Feb 11 07:21:33 morning Feb 11 07:22:00 ahven: you had a problem report? Feb 11 08:16:15 good morning Feb 11 08:20:08 finally! :) Feb 11 08:49:55 http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/02/10/zzzphone_offers_custom_handsets/ <-- nice... Feb 11 08:54:24 can it run linux with wifi? Feb 11 08:57:43 ls Feb 11 08:57:46 oups Feb 11 08:58:27 no wifi it seems :( Feb 11 09:04:18 pffft, no deal! :) Feb 11 09:07:25 looks fishy all around :P Feb 11 09:18:21 Cool Dating Club site ===> new-datingclub eu Feb 11 09:40:45 * ScaredyCat wonders why gpsd is part of om Feb 11 09:41:08 and then why whoever added it, didn't bother to test the build Feb 11 09:50:52 ScaredyCat: do they ever test the build? Feb 11 09:51:16 probably not... Feb 11 09:51:56 though, to me, that's the bit you do before you commit the change... but hey Feb 11 09:52:45 it's especially simple to spot a problem when nothing provides the dependancy you added... Feb 11 09:53:05 * ScaredyCat looks for a poking stick Feb 11 09:54:11 http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/10/sonyericsson-xperia-x1-qwerty-with-windows-mobile/ but why windows whyyyyy? Feb 11 09:54:19 ScaredyCat: ah, but probably something does provide the dependency Feb 11 09:54:38 ScaredyCat: only that the "something" is a .bb which is local to the developer's machine Feb 11 09:54:40 it doesn't cesarb Feb 11 09:54:45 ahh yes.. well Feb 11 09:54:54 * ScaredyCat stabs random developers Feb 11 10:06:17 lol Feb 11 10:06:20 "All zzzPhones work anywhere in the world except for Europe, according to the release." Feb 11 10:06:42 that's cos us Europeans use that newfangled technology Feb 11 10:12:16 ScaredyCat: i.e. gsm? Feb 11 10:12:26 :) Feb 11 10:12:50 maybe it's specially for mwester - 850mhz only ;) Feb 11 10:28:29 openmoko: 03thomas * r4049 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/ (9 files in 3 dirs): opkg: move tests into a separate directory Feb 11 10:30:13 openmoko: 03thomas * r4050 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/ (Makefile.am configure.ac etc/): opkg: remove redundant etc directory Feb 11 10:36:27 I need to install uclibc toolchain any one has an idea? Feb 11 10:36:55 mohamed: buildroot Feb 11 10:39:04 Gottox: I tried to use buildroot but the following error arises http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/55589/ Feb 11 10:41:24 this looks like an error in buildroot itself. maybe the buildroot guys can help you. Feb 11 10:43:47 Gottox: do they have an IRC channel? Feb 11 10:50:30 openmoko: 03thomas * r4051 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/ (6 files in 4 dirs): opkg: distcheck fixes Feb 11 11:38:44 hi all Feb 11 12:23:07 the following command doesn't boot the kernel could you please help me Feb 11 12:23:09 qemu ­m 32 ­hda rootfs.img ­kernel linux-2.6.15/arch/i386/boot/bzImage -append "root=/dev/sda clock=pit" Feb 11 12:47:56 mohamed: add "-serial stdio" and "-append "console=ttyS0" Feb 11 12:50:44 hrw: in addition to the previous command? Feb 11 12:52:43 yes Feb 11 12:52:54 ofcourse merge your -append and mine Feb 11 12:55:57 hrw: the same nothing changed, have a look http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/55599/ Feb 11 13:00:42 qemu -m 32 -hda rootfs.img -kernel linux-2.6.15/arch/i386/boot/bzImage -serial stdio etc? Feb 11 13:02:03 hrw: the same as well !! Feb 11 13:06:47 ;( Feb 11 13:07:02 ata0 master: QEMU HARDDISK ATA-7 Hard-Disk (0 MBytes) Feb 11 13:07:10 check your rootfs.img Feb 11 13:07:13 hrw: sorry, it worked as qemu -m 32 -hda rootfs.img -kernel linux-2.6.15/arch/i386/boot/bzImage -serial stdio -append "root=/dev/sda clock=pit console=ttyS0" Feb 11 13:08:34 hrw: but it stops after uncompressing linux (Uncompressing linux.....OK, booting the kernel) Feb 11 13:11:21 then check kernel Feb 11 13:14:08 hrw: I've omitted the console=ttyS0 part it continued to work, but the kernel says cannot open root device Feb 11 13:14:38 then check how does it recognize kernel? Feb 11 13:15:27 hrw: sorry, how could I do this job? Feb 11 13:15:39 mohamed: by reading kernel output etc Feb 11 13:15:49 I lack time to hold your hand Feb 11 14:50:06 sdfghjk Feb 11 14:52:18 ScaredyCat: roger. Feb 11 15:59:47 heya Feb 11 16:00:37 so our server-side app finally has the rss-y interface that we've been pushing for that will allow us to start offering moko/other smartphone integration to our customers Feb 11 16:00:57 the point: we will be actively steering customers to buy neo1973s as soon as they're viable for daily use Feb 11 16:01:10 that can include meaning 'when charged all the time' for our use, so... Feb 11 16:01:19 just excited, thought I'd ramble Feb 11 16:07:24 :) Feb 11 16:07:37 * SpeedEvil forgets which app this was. Feb 11 16:08:46 when will the neo be available for consumers? Feb 11 16:09:10 SpeedEvil: don't know if anyone was aware, as I haven't really pushed it or anything since it's mostly boring for the neo crowd Feb 11 16:09:22 the big benefit to me is simply the rss reader on the neo is good enough, and I love supporting oss Feb 11 16:09:48 and we already have one because I bought a devphone as soon as I possibly could (but missed the first batch because I was on vacation when they were released and my partner forgot to buy it...) Feb 11 16:09:51 i thought it was going to be quad band . . . looks like it is tri-band now? Feb 11 16:09:55 tri band :/ Feb 11 16:09:58 Anyone happen to know if there's a way to force Qtopia into fast charge? Feb 11 16:10:08 no 850 (== limited for cingular in the us) Feb 11 16:10:13 user01: spec issues Feb 11 16:10:27 right now I'm waiting on my neo to revive from battery slumber, meh Feb 11 16:10:29 user01: it was always specified to teh hardware people as triband Feb 11 16:10:44 user01: however. That's not what the software people thought Feb 11 16:11:01 Combine that with most of the initial testers were where there was no 850... Feb 11 16:11:19 indeed Feb 11 16:11:51 oh i c Feb 11 16:12:01 i wonder how i can revive my neo, its been sitting for months not plugged in Feb 11 16:12:10 i can hook the battery to a lab supply i guess Feb 11 16:12:16 i live in 850 world if they ever want me to test :) Feb 11 16:12:23 a lot of people do Feb 11 16:13:05 anrp: plugging it in to USB for several hours should work Feb 11 16:13:06 anrp, I think you can take the battery out for a few minutes, then plug it up for ~1 hour and THEN power on (not before, or it'll just discharge again) Feb 11 16:13:13 that's always worked for me before Feb 11 16:13:15 there will probably be more bands once the fcc sells off more of the spectrum Feb 11 16:13:22 yeah, do kill it first by leaving the battery out for a while Feb 11 16:13:28 or it'll keep drawing as you charge Feb 11 16:13:32 jadams_: I don't think that's needed if you've left it on Feb 11 16:13:37 For months that is Feb 11 16:13:46 as the battery internal protection will have cut in Feb 11 16:13:59 ahh Feb 11 16:14:02 k Feb 11 16:14:20 0.0 volts! Feb 11 16:14:30 andred_: it does that Feb 11 16:14:34 anrp: Feb 11 16:14:37 is it still in development phase? everytime i go to the site it says "end of the year" but that was since last year Feb 11 16:14:41 anrp: it's not 'real' 0v Feb 11 16:14:46 i know Feb 11 16:14:57 user01: the .com site needs updating. Feb 11 16:15:18 user01: unfortunately, the key to the server room was eaten by a dolphin when one of the developers was swimming. Feb 11 16:15:34 user01: You know that there is supposed to be an 850 version of the '02/FreeRunner when it comes out? Feb 11 16:15:48 wurp2, nope Feb 11 16:15:58 Well, now you do :-) Feb 11 16:16:01 SpeedEvil, at least it wasnt the manatees Feb 11 16:16:15 It will still be tri-band, but there will be two versions (or so I was told when I got my '01) Feb 11 16:16:27 maneating manatees Feb 11 16:18:02 Hi Feb 11 16:18:06 so is the neo ready for consumer use then? Feb 11 16:18:12 nope Feb 11 16:18:15 is it possible to optimize its Neo to consume less energies ? Feb 11 16:18:30 tooo: being done Feb 11 16:18:39 user01: Even when the FreeRunner hardware first comes available, it will not be ready for consumer use Feb 11 16:18:42 tooo: current work looks like it'll hit at least a 12 hour time Feb 11 16:18:51 user01: They will still need lots of software updates to hit that mark Feb 11 16:18:55 wurp2: unless there are extended delays in freerunner Feb 11 16:19:29 where is the neo as far as development then . . . like a beta? Feb 11 16:19:32 * SpeedEvil should probably try to restrain his pessimism, but he has a pain in the diodes all down his left side. Feb 11 16:19:39 user01: basically, yes Feb 11 16:19:46 user01: maybe even alpha Feb 11 16:19:50 SpeedEvil: You really think that they might take that long to put together the hw, without also having enough delays in sw to prevent it from being ready when hw comes out? Feb 11 16:19:57 user01: beta hardware, alpha software. Feb 11 16:20:13 wurp2: I doubt it Feb 11 16:20:22 wurp2: but who knows. Feb 11 16:20:57 if my neo doesn't wake from its slumber soon I'm killing someone Feb 11 16:20:58 I wouldn't put it _utterly_ beyond the bounds of possibility that someone else brings out a OM phone before freerunner Feb 11 16:21:14 * SpeedEvil passes jadams_ a picture of Bill Gates. Feb 11 16:22:17 that wouldn't really accomplish much Feb 11 16:22:21 Yeah, sw is definitely alpha, not beta Feb 11 16:22:32 anrp: yeah - I know. Feb 11 16:22:34 beta means you think it might all be OK, except some minor stuff Feb 11 16:22:59 sw has many fairly major known flaws Feb 11 16:23:51 I don't know if I'd call it alpha. Feb 11 16:24:00 from reading openmoko-kernel mailing list major hardware bugs are being dealt Feb 11 16:24:10 i expect freerunner to arrive soon Feb 11 16:24:13 Alpha usually means that the software is basically there but with major bugs or omissions. Feb 11 16:24:35 Not that whole huge chunks are entirely missing. Feb 11 16:24:37 well the page back in october said the project was in alpha so hopefully some of it has moved to beta :) Feb 11 16:24:59 Some apps are beta maybe. Feb 11 16:25:09 or alpha rather Feb 11 16:25:21 * anrp juices the battery at 1a for 5 minutes Feb 11 16:25:48 anrp: 0.5C is probably a better plan Feb 11 16:25:58 But 1A won't kill it Feb 11 16:26:07 well i just want enough to get it booted Feb 11 16:26:13 and if i fry it, hey i've got two of em Feb 11 16:27:18 * anrp watches it rumble to life ... literally, even Feb 11 16:28:02 SpeedEvil: To me, if it's usable, and it's released, it's alpha Feb 11 16:28:16 and it is both Feb 11 16:28:26 power management is not alpha - it's nonexistant :-( Feb 11 16:29:02 *cough* *sputter* Feb 11 16:29:33 I read that they solved some serious bug that makes the pmu usable now Feb 11 16:29:42 anyway now its charging on the neo which is good Feb 11 16:29:44 anrp: Just don't let the magic smoke out Feb 11 16:29:51 (gta02 anyway) Feb 11 16:29:53 didn't take long to resurrect... Feb 11 16:31:06 but thats only cause i could charge the battery outside of the device :/ Feb 11 16:33:28 so...how do i turn off the backlight to get it to charge faster Feb 11 16:33:53 * anrp spies /sys/class/backlight/gta01-bl but remains unknowing Feb 11 16:34:13 oh, echo 1 > power did it Feb 11 16:41:53 what about removing services ? would it economize more power ? Feb 11 16:42:14 what do you mean? Feb 11 16:42:14 my phone doesn't even have a sim card atm so there's not much more to turn off Feb 11 16:42:18 i could slow down the cpu i guess Feb 11 16:42:22 yes, you can turn crap off Feb 11 16:42:48 wurp2: in the devtools entry on the application grid, there should be an entry 'fast charge' Feb 11 16:46:42 i mean, if i disable useless services, i could gain a little bit more autonomy, no ? Did someone already dug this way ? Feb 11 16:46:59 define services Feb 11 16:47:35 The primary drain at the moment is the complete lack of power managment Feb 11 16:47:41 That's being worked on. Feb 11 16:48:03 unix services such as sshd, nntpd, etc... (i know, i will not disable ssh,it was a service example) Feb 11 16:48:11 irrelevant Feb 11 16:48:19 they don't cause any power drain Feb 11 16:48:39 well they probably cause a microscopic average increase Feb 11 16:48:41 due to cpu load Feb 11 16:48:46 buts its effectively zero Feb 11 17:03:02 * anrp watches the progression Feb 11 17:03:06 3.8 volts now Feb 11 17:08:32 hi all, I was running a compiled kernel using qemu with the command qemu -m 32 -hda rootfs.img -kernel linux-2.6.15/arch/i386/boot/bzImage -serial stdio -append "root=/dev/sda clock=pit" but the following error arises http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/55617/ Feb 11 17:08:38 any help? Feb 11 17:20:40 ljp: Thanks! Feb 11 17:21:40 I used the command qemu -m 32 -hda rootfs.img -kernel linux-2.6.15/arch/i386/boot/bzImage -serial stdio -append "label=/dev/sda clock=pit" but the kernel says http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/55617/ Feb 11 17:21:46 any help? Feb 11 17:22:57 label=/dev/sda seems suspect Feb 11 17:24:29 anrp: I used root=/dev/sda as well Feb 11 17:25:18 anrp: I also changed clock=pit by console=ttyS0 Feb 11 17:28:01 ...qemu does not support sat Feb 11 17:28:17 -hda is /dev/hda in the virtual environment Feb 11 17:28:34 s/sat/sata/ Feb 11 17:28:42 is ScaredyCat's build still the preferred one for most people? Feb 11 17:28:55 I'm flashing this sucker with a new image and want to know what to use... Feb 11 17:30:13 sbeh: so should I replace root=/dev/sda by root=/dev/hda? Feb 11 17:30:43 mohamed: there is no /dev/sda in qemu, because qemu does not have virtual sata-devices Feb 11 17:31:33 sbeh: you mean that I can't emulate the kernel using my hardware devices ?? Feb 11 17:34:36 i mean what i say Feb 11 17:35:18 your host-system does then communication with your hardware, qemu is a userland-process Feb 11 17:41:07 can any one help me i tray to install linux on a pocket pc mio 338 Feb 11 17:41:39 do not ask to ask, just ask Feb 11 17:41:43 i like the openmoko so i can install it on the mio 338 ? Feb 11 17:42:19 sbeh,you know how to do that ? Feb 11 17:42:50 no Feb 11 17:43:14 i can install a basic shell one it ? Feb 11 17:43:34 any think but not the windows mobile Feb 11 17:44:28 who is the experts here ? can any one do that ? Feb 11 17:46:08 sbeh, is it always like that here ? no one answer Feb 11 17:47:13 noone whould give you shell-commands, you need to try it by your own and come back with real error-messages Feb 11 17:48:34 but i dont now haw to do that Feb 11 17:48:55 because that i am asking here !!! Feb 11 17:49:25 then be prepared, that you will get no help here Feb 11 17:49:39 were i can get help Feb 11 17:50:08 etha smhet bleez saedne , maa b3ref oen ablesh Feb 11 17:51:14 sbeh,can you help me to start ? Feb 11 17:51:20 no Feb 11 17:51:53 sbeh,you now were i can get help to start ? Feb 11 17:52:09 *know Feb 11 17:52:54 i dont think, that you will get/find any usefull help with that approach Feb 11 17:52:55 i am a linux user ok i am using debian testing but i never do that on a pocket pc Feb 11 17:53:28 good frinds can do that Feb 11 17:54:22 sbeh: Wrong, someone will help if they know how Feb 11 17:54:40 error0327: When you ask and no one replies, it means no one reading right then knows how :-( Feb 11 17:55:00 Or they don't have time to help at the moment Feb 11 17:55:38 ok so a room of openmoko help dont know how to install the system openmoko Feb 11 17:55:49 error0327: I think that from where you're starting, you will find that a difficult task Feb 11 17:56:06 error0327: Much of what you want is particular to your hardware... Feb 11 17:56:30 <_diego_> error0327, i'm not paid to do your work... What u are asking it's very time consuming Feb 11 17:56:41 because that i am asking for a basic shell at less Feb 11 17:57:25 <_diego_> a basic shell, require 90% of the work required to install a linux system on a new hardware Feb 11 17:57:48 ok soo i want to get in to the world were is the files that i need to download and tray to boot on my pocket pc Feb 11 17:57:54 <_diego_> u need to install (and make it work) at least a bootloader and a kernel Feb 11 17:58:56 error0327: Someone (probably you) would have to figure out how to transfer data to your devices boot file system Feb 11 17:59:04 And how to interface w/ all the hardware Feb 11 17:59:07 _diego_ ,soo not every pocket pc have a boot loader i must make it you say !! Feb 11 17:59:41 ... Feb 11 17:59:46 If I were you and I were willing to spend the time (months) on it, I would start by googling for other people who have installed custom OS to your device Feb 11 17:59:55 And overcome any firmware security devices or procedures Feb 11 18:00:06 which may vary from trivial to nearly impossible Feb 11 18:00:07 <_diego_> first of all: u need to find out what hardware it uses, find a working bootloader, find a way to flash it on the hardware Feb 11 18:00:21 error0327: maybe you should start with some more knowlegde of linux Feb 11 18:00:23 <_diego_> and to be not be feared to brick it ^^ Feb 11 18:00:39 error0327: linux-from-scratch is a good startpoint, if you are realy motivated Feb 11 18:01:07 error0327: In short, what you want is a very significant task, even for someone who has ported linux to a handheld device before Feb 11 18:01:43 wurp2,but that what i am traing to do ? i am looking for some one how tray that Feb 11 18:02:01 that way i am asking every one here !!!!!!! Feb 11 18:02:30 <_diego_> me think that don't really understand how difficult can be Feb 11 18:02:34 Basically, unless someones got the hardware and the skills, and the motivation you're out of luck. Feb 11 18:02:41 error0327: No one here is going to take on a task of many months because you want linux on your phone... Feb 11 18:02:44 It's a _best_ several weeks of work Feb 11 18:03:24 but way it not work in all the devises Feb 11 18:03:40 No operating system can work in all devices... Feb 11 18:03:44 Because each phone is a custom design effectively Feb 11 18:03:48 not like PCs Feb 11 18:03:57 i mean like a normal computer linux Feb 11 18:04:00 Some devices e.g. might insist on a digital signature to load any code onto them Feb 11 18:04:04 Then you're SOL Feb 11 18:04:18 PCs are misleading Feb 11 18:04:21 ok i under stand Feb 11 18:04:38 historically, each computer or makers range of computers has required seperate programs for them Feb 11 18:04:47 this is where the phone is at at the moment Feb 11 18:04:55 That is an extreme case, but most handheld devices have many proprietary bits, so you have to write lots of custom code Feb 11 18:05:23 proprietory bits, often with no documentation or example driver to work from Feb 11 18:05:26 AFTER reverse engineering the software interfaces (and maybe hardware) on the phone Feb 11 18:06:19 ok but some one alrede write some kind of a basic system like unex so there is some think like that that work in all the devises ? Feb 11 18:06:34 error0327: You're not understanding Feb 11 18:06:37 No, unix works as it's manufacturer supported Feb 11 18:06:45 the makers of the systems alter it to work on them Feb 11 18:06:45 Computing is not like in the movie Independence Day Feb 11 18:06:55 You can't just write code that you can load on an alien device Feb 11 18:07:12 wurp2: No - it's like in the movie Wierd Science. Feb 11 18:07:17 ok you write Feb 11 18:07:36 wurp2,you are write Feb 11 18:08:19 poetry? I don't know Feb 11 18:08:26 error0327: Once you have drivers for all the low level hardware, and code to interface with the device & load your stuff on there, and the boot code, lots of code can be ported Feb 11 18:08:46 but that other stuff mostly requires lots of analysis work, then custom code Feb 11 18:09:18 but i hope for some think because i am a linux user in a normal system so i tray to get one on mo PDA Feb 11 18:09:20 please have a look at that problem http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/55625/ Feb 11 18:09:24 any help? Feb 11 18:09:26 ok that not ease Feb 11 18:09:28 easy Feb 11 18:09:35 error0327: You will probably have to look for already supported devices Feb 11 18:09:42 ok Feb 11 18:09:54 thanks every one Feb 11 18:10:07 Then you will need to follow complicated instructions on some wiki somewhere and ask for help with specific error messages Feb 11 18:10:14 Like sbeh said Feb 11 18:10:31 error0327: If you wait a minute, I'll find you the list of supported devices for OpenMoko Feb 11 18:10:52 Does anyone know the name of one of the supported devices so I can search for it on the wiki? Feb 11 18:10:53 i look on that Feb 11 18:10:53 no mio at all Feb 11 18:11:12 error0327: Yeah, your specific device is unlikely to be supported Feb 11 18:11:33 You could google for mio + linux and see if any other linux has already been porte Feb 11 18:11:36 d Feb 11 18:12:05 Otherwise you're off on a quest to learn to become a software developer, with hardware interface & kernel skills, Feb 11 18:12:06 what i know that my devise use a rom to save hes system so there is a way to re write any think there ? Feb 11 18:12:18 then after that to spend months getting your stuff to work on your device :-) Feb 11 18:12:28 error0327: Certainly not in ROM Feb 11 18:12:33 It is Read Only Memory Feb 11 18:12:52 i Know Feb 11 18:12:56 EPROM you can put stuff in Feb 11 18:13:01 becuse that i am asking !! Feb 11 18:13:02 Or you could get a ROM burner and build another ROM Feb 11 18:13:09 ok, how do i force fast charge...chgmode reports "idle" and echoing fast_cccv to it does nothing Feb 11 18:13:12 Once you understand how the device uses the ROM Feb 11 18:13:13 ? Feb 11 18:13:25 anrp: Did you echo -n ? Feb 11 18:13:29 yes Feb 11 18:13:40 hoi Feb 11 18:14:16 so the devises that well ever work on linux must not be use a room to save the monile system Feb 11 18:14:27 anrp: Writing fast_cccv to that file sets fast charge for me... Feb 11 18:14:31 Oh, wait Feb 11 18:14:33 it says idel Feb 11 18:14:36 s/idel/idle/ Feb 11 18:14:37 wurp2 meant: it says idle Feb 11 18:14:45 It's not recognizing your charger at all Feb 11 18:14:51 ok bye Feb 11 18:14:52 thanks Feb 11 18:14:53 even though i'm talking to it over usb? :/ Feb 11 18:14:55 Try unplugging usb & plugging back in :-) Feb 11 18:14:58 anrp: Weird Feb 11 18:15:00 i'll try that Feb 11 18:15:08 Yeah, 'pre' is what it says when charging slowly Feb 11 18:15:22 oh, that did it Feb 11 18:15:27 i wonder if that's still an issue ... Feb 11 18:15:36 starting with USB plugged in, it refuses to charge Feb 11 18:15:44 mine is a months+ old kernel though so Feb 11 18:16:06 I don't think kernel from daily builds on OM has changed in a long while Feb 11 18:16:20 Well, kernel version hasn't changed... Feb 11 18:16:28 svn changes have been committed Feb 11 18:16:30 at least its charging now Feb 11 18:16:34 * anrp woots Feb 11 18:17:19 hi all Feb 11 18:17:50 plzhelp with fonts in OpenMoko Feb 11 18:18:41 I install OpenMoko on HTC Magician, and i need help with rus fonts Feb 11 18:19:57 <_diego_> anrp, neo is recognized correctly on host pc? I've found that often the problem is on the pc side Feb 11 18:20:58 who work with OpenMoko and from Rus? Feb 11 18:21:36 CDC was working before from the boot Feb 11 18:21:46 it just didn't recognize the fact that it could charge Feb 11 18:21:50 its going now Feb 11 18:22:07 Viliam_Volos_V: you really need to be more precise....what about the fonts? Feb 11 18:22:31 <_diego_> the other reason, is that you are connecting it trough a not powered usb hub Feb 11 18:22:35 )) Feb 11 18:23:11 im install OpenMoko andhe dont anderstend Rus fonts Feb 11 18:23:17 its going through a 6 inch cable to my box Feb 11 18:23:21 so... no D: Feb 11 18:23:42 * Viliam_Volos_V slaps anrp around a bit with a large trout Feb 11 18:23:47 Viliam_Volos_V: ~_? Feb 11 18:23:53 sory Feb 11 18:23:56 (( Feb 11 18:23:57 Viliam_Volos_V: balrog-kun might know something about that Feb 11 18:23:58 i don't know if openmoko has really been internationalized Feb 11 18:24:08 no idea if russian fonts have been tested... Feb 11 18:24:45 i know this but i cant reedmySMS Feb 11 18:25:02 see this guys - http://openmoko.hobby-site.com/ - ha Feb 11 18:25:49 :? Feb 11 18:26:01 i dunno, I'd just go with about 2/3 of what sold in the first two weeks-month Feb 11 18:27:36 what can i do, to connect rus fonts ? Feb 11 18:29:49 i'm not the right person to ask Feb 11 18:31:31 my openmoko works, but it never shows the home screen. Just hangs on 'please wait...' I'm using ScaredyCat's latest build. Feb 11 18:32:40 jadams_, I've personally found that ScaredyCat's images are... Problematic. Feb 11 18:32:49 jadams_: Are you doing anything funny with your home directory? Feb 11 18:33:10 jadams_: I got that same behavior with any recent build - my home dir was a symlink to my sd card Feb 11 18:33:17 When I undid that, it booted fine Feb 11 18:33:53 There is some specific directory under home that's the problem, I think... symlinking the contents of /home/root to /media/card/home/root still breaks the boot Feb 11 18:34:17 but I can symlink e.g. my bin directory and it boots fine Feb 11 18:34:43 sd probably doesn't get mounted for quite a while Feb 11 18:34:49 in terms of the boot Feb 11 18:35:40 anrp: It used to work fine... Feb 11 18:35:52 But I agree that seems the likely issue Feb 11 18:36:29 what fs is on your sd card? Feb 11 18:36:37 ext2 Feb 11 18:36:44 on the partition I'm linking to... Feb 11 18:37:14 I also have a fat partition which so far I haven't done anything with Feb 11 18:55:07 :/ Feb 11 18:55:32 wurp2: maybe worth checking fstab and seeing if "auto" is in the params for the mmcblk0pX device? Feb 11 19:19:14 anrp: Thanks for the advice; I'll do that Feb 11 19:19:34 Once I get OM back on my phone instead of Qtopia, and I get somewhere that I can network w/ my phone :-) Feb 11 19:20:05 New snapshots today. :D Feb 11 19:20:30 kdean06: Yeah, I was lamenting the lack of your review as I was looking at them yesterday :-) Feb 11 19:20:53 When I checked yesterday, there were no new ones. Feb 11 19:21:08 I'm surprised to see a 09 image... Feb 11 19:21:27 I figured maybe you were taking the weekend off from your unpaid job... Feb 11 19:22:43 Wolfgang e-mailed me on 09 Feb 2008 saying the snapshots stopped for the Chinese New Year. At that moment, I checked, there were no new ones so I took his "on Tuesday" to be the timeframe. :P Feb 11 19:22:59 So, no 09 Feb review. :P But I'll get an 11 Feb one done. :) Feb 11 19:23:40 my phone's hanging at 'Please wait...' Feb 11 19:27:05 jadams_, I can confirm 100% that today's official snapshot gets beyond that. :P Feb 11 19:37:26 wurp2, You're familiar with GSM "buzz" no? Feb 11 19:37:42 You every had speakers on and get a call come in and the speakers "buzz"? Feb 11 19:49:03 kdean06: Hmm... you're not talking about the 'air' sound? Feb 11 19:49:10 From the Bypass alsa setting? Feb 11 19:49:24 No, I'm not. This isn't Neo specific... Feb 11 19:49:37 Hmm, I don't think I've had the buzz Feb 11 19:49:39 The "air" sound is what you hear breathing into a microphone. :P Feb 11 19:50:03 The buzz is what you hear from PC speakers if you set a GSM phone next to them and call the phone. My RAZR did it all the time. Feb 11 19:50:15 Well, there's a strong air sound with the bypass turned up even if there are no notable sounds entering the mic Feb 11 19:50:24 Ah, I don't do that :-) Feb 11 19:50:32 Have you? Feb 11 19:50:37 Have you EVER heard it? Feb 11 19:50:44 I think I've heard of it Feb 11 19:50:56 But I've never heard it on my speakers Feb 11 19:51:00 or at least not noticed it Feb 11 19:51:16 My speakers are distant from my desk Feb 11 19:51:24 a few feet away, anyway Feb 11 19:51:24 You're confusing me by answering questions I'm not asking. :P Feb 11 19:51:28 Heh Feb 11 19:51:31 Sorry Feb 11 19:51:39 The answer is no, I don't think so. Feb 11 19:51:43 Okay. Feb 11 19:51:50 Anyone else? Feb 11 19:51:58 wurp2, Didn't mean to be rude either. :P Feb 11 19:52:21 NP. I misread your question the first time. Your response didn't look rude to me. Feb 11 19:53:27 I'm not sure what's happening, but i'm getting a weird sound on my Neo, it sounds like that. I was in New Jersey buying a car this weekend and I heard it VERY loudly, so much that I couldn't use the phone. I set it down, got a coffee and then came back and the battery was totally dead. Now, I'm hearing that buzz again every now and then. Feb 11 19:54:17 I'm not sure if my battery was dying, and so the modem wasn't working properly, or if a problem with the modem killed the battery. Feb 11 19:54:47 But I just made a 90 second call with a full charge and the battery applet dropped to 1/3 charge. :S Feb 11 19:55:16 So I'm not sure if there's a hardware problem or if something software wise is "broken" today. Feb 11 19:55:32 kdean06: When was the last time you pulled the battery on your neo? Feb 11 19:55:52 I'm just wondering if the gsm got in a bad state, and hasn't recovered because it never goes down, even if you shut down Feb 11 19:56:16 My neo flaked out on me during a call the other day, and rebooting didn't fix it Feb 11 19:56:17 wurp2, Yesterday. I killed the battery totally, and did the slow recharge procedure. Feb 11 19:56:22 but pulling the battery for 10 seconds did Feb 11 19:56:25 Ouch! Feb 11 19:56:54 I have only ever killed my battery completely once Feb 11 19:57:05 It seems (thinking objectively) that I've got a gsm issue. gsm flaked out, battery died. Feb 11 19:57:11 But I'm not sure in what order. :( Feb 11 19:57:32 *** Error: Package name contains illegal characters, (other than [a-z0-9.+-]) Feb 11 19:57:33 ipkg-build: Please fix the above errors and try again. Feb 11 19:57:33 << has anyone encoutered similar errors? Feb 11 19:57:51 I don't really know what I'm talking about, but a "hunch" seems as if GSM is pulling too much juice now... Causing interference on my speakers and draining my battery too quickly. Feb 11 19:58:39 But that doesn't compute. :P Firmware hasn't changed, kernel is the came and as I recall there's no software-side gsm power controller yet. Feb 11 19:59:32 So it's hardware or a bug that appeared and persisted across a kernel reflash and new rootfs. :P Feb 11 19:59:55 Hrm... I'm going to give my Neo some time without a battery. Feb 11 20:05:51 Ðåáÿò - åñòü êòî èç Ðîñèè? Feb 11 20:09:01 how to change rintone in openmoko? Feb 11 20:12:38 Viliam_Volos_V, Replace /usr/share/openmoko/sounds/ringtone_classy.wav with your ringtone. There's not a way (yet) to do it using the interface or set a tone per-contact. Feb 11 20:12:58 ok Feb 11 20:13:02 Which is something that naggs at me. Feb 11 20:14:06 mp3,mwa, aac ? Feb 11 20:19:27 I don't know, honestly. Feb 11 20:20:02 I've never done it, thought i know at least with .wav there's no reason it wouldn't work. Feb 11 20:20:04 aac is DRMed, isn't it? Feb 11 20:20:19 I know the desktop wallpaper doesn't care what format it is. Feb 11 20:20:48 hellow my fellow mokomonkeys Feb 11 20:21:11 what is the latest availability date projection of the consumer device? Feb 11 20:21:29 "When it's Ready" TM Feb 11 20:21:34 wiki faq Feb 11 20:21:39 see topic Feb 11 20:21:41 lol! danke Feb 11 20:21:46 heh Feb 11 20:22:18 it's getting time for a new phoen and i'm really really not wanting a blackberry Feb 11 20:22:19 My guess from a position of near total ignorance is mid April Feb 11 20:22:22 hoping one of these comes out sooner Feb 11 20:22:46 aha, looking at faq Feb 11 20:22:48 note the words 'guess' and 'total ignorance' in that sentence Feb 11 20:23:36 So apparently they are much more concerned in the HW validation process of the need for a different PCB than just different components needed on it Feb 11 20:23:57 right right Feb 11 20:24:12 Which kind of surprised me - I figured either one would require significant time to retool the assembly line Feb 11 20:24:52 i'm surprised to hear the need for a different pcb but .... i'm no hardware engineer Feb 11 20:24:55 thats fine Feb 11 20:25:08 as a side note i ran into an interesting vapourware idea for a product Feb 11 20:25:31 that moko might want to add into their 'interesting ideas'category Feb 11 20:25:51 some company is releasing a type of cel device that you can modify for whatever use you want Feb 11 20:25:52 Oh, they don't need a new PCB right now Feb 11 20:26:18 wurp2: where are you getting your infor? Feb 11 20:26:19 so the idea is that you buy the base phone device and you can add aditional 'jackets/sleeves' for it Feb 11 20:26:20 -r Feb 11 20:26:31 but they do need some different components Feb 11 20:26:38 so if you needed a thumb keyboard you could add one, if you needed maybe a joystick pad or something you could add that Feb 11 20:26:41 summatusmentis: Here and some perusal of the kernel mailing list Feb 11 20:26:54 wurp2: interesting Feb 11 20:27:21 holycow: There is a concept for a different FreeRunner case that would add that ability Feb 11 20:27:39 The new case is ugly as sin IMO, but that might be OK if it worked well Feb 11 20:28:05 s/new case/proposed custom case/ Feb 11 20:28:06 wurp2 meant: The proposed custom case is ugly as sin IMO, but that might be OK if it worked well Feb 11 20:28:09 wurp2: oh, kernel mailing list. Wow, I wouldn't understand most of what was going on there Feb 11 20:28:15 Me neither Feb 11 20:28:26 But I can understand "adding a pullup resistor" Feb 11 20:28:40 wurp2: (hi) i havent seen a new case... could you please give a URL? :) Feb 11 20:28:47 and "we haven't found the need for a new PCB after v5" Feb 11 20:30:15 Kryczek: Try searching for alternative cases on the wiki Feb 11 20:30:20 Kryczek: wiki.openmoko.org Feb 11 20:30:38 wurp2: oh they thought of that? Feb 11 20:30:44 wurp2: thats v v cool Feb 11 20:30:54 holycow: An end user did, and threw it up on the wiki Feb 11 20:30:59 holycow: I agree Feb 11 20:31:04 just awesome Feb 11 20:31:23 The neo is very very cool for providing good standardized hardware interfaces (i2c, etc) so we can do that stuff ourselves Feb 11 20:31:32 Really, that's their whole business model Feb 11 20:31:46 Enable "the little guy" to do stuff that makes their phone more valuable Feb 11 20:32:31 wurp2: oops, i thought i was on the #gumstix channel... sorry :p but thanks anyway! :) Feb 11 20:32:37 that just rocks because all of a sudden it changes from something you buy to something you use for different things Feb 11 20:32:59 agreed 100% Feb 11 20:34:05 holycow: They also made the bluetooth fully functional Feb 11 20:34:20 So saying a neo has bluetooth support is much stronger than saying phone X has bluetooth Feb 11 20:34:41 The latter seeming to mean that you can use a bluetooth headset and maybe sync contacts with your PC Feb 11 20:36:49 interesting Feb 11 20:37:42 so your neo can be your gps brick for your laptop, or use a bluetooth phone, or could advertise itself as a mouse (where you use the touchpad) Feb 11 20:39:19 wurp2, i saw in the logs gprs wouldn't connect for you -- did you ever get it working? Feb 11 20:39:54 erko: Nope Feb 11 20:40:00 I didn't put too much work into it Feb 11 20:40:27 wurp2, ah, ok, just asking because I had a lot of trouble, too. Increasing the TIMEOUT from 10 to something high like 200 fixed it for me. Feb 11 20:40:52 I tried the manual method on the wiki, then settingsgui Feb 11 20:41:00 Cool, I'll try that. Thanks! Feb 11 20:41:10 How was it failing for you? Feb 11 20:41:19 Mine got to 'atz' then just bailed Feb 11 20:41:20 wurp2: sure, also, someone suggested to me that I try a few times in a row. Feb 11 20:41:53 I had some other errors, the last was a timeout after ATZ or so Feb 11 20:44:10 Also, I ended up using the tmobile chatscripts, only change was to increase the the timeout at the top of /etc/ppp/chatscripts/tmobile.txt Feb 11 20:44:14 erko: OK, that sounds like my problem Feb 11 20:44:44 Hmm, I don't think I've seen the chat scripts Feb 11 20:44:51 Are they on the manual gprs page? Feb 11 20:45:02 And I'm actually using AT&T Feb 11 20:47:40 The scripts are in a link in the APN table. I have a t-mobile account though, so I'm not sure if they'll help you. Feb 11 20:50:43 Hey, I have a pay as you go account. On my old phone, I got a message after each call that told me how much time I had remaining. Feb 11 20:50:59 Does anyone know how, using AT commands, to get that information? Feb 11 20:51:31 It may be a SMS Feb 11 20:51:50 For ecxample, I can text 'ba' to 150 and get back my credit balance Feb 11 20:52:23 SpeedEvil: Cool, thanks! Feb 11 20:52:43 I know I don't get an SMS automatically for that, but the phone may send a message behind the scenes. Feb 11 20:54:08 my neo1973 won't get past the 'please wait...' screen, even though it's loaded the tray keyboard icon, etc. Feb 11 20:54:18 and if I hold down power I get the power screen as expected Feb 11 20:54:25 I just lack all main interface bits... Feb 11 20:54:52 jadams_: Have you looked at dmesg output? Feb 11 20:55:28 wurp2, lemme usbnetwork in and check it Feb 11 20:58:54 wurp2, dmesg: http://pastie.caboo.se/150522 Feb 11 21:00:47 I dunno what that stuff is :-) Anyone else? Feb 11 21:01:18 jadams_: You may get it to finish starting up if you shut down dbus & X, then start 'em back up again Feb 11 21:01:25 also, I used the stuff from ScaredyCat's repositories Feb 11 21:01:29 /etc/init.d/*dbus* stop Feb 11 21:01:37 /etc/init.d/xsomething stop Feb 11 21:01:39 then start both Feb 11 21:01:40 can someone verify a build they're currently running successfully? Feb 11 21:02:26 wurp2, reboots, same issue Feb 11 21:03:46 wurp2, actually, I may need to do something in case there was a bigger image on here before, I forget Feb 11 21:03:47 jadams_, The 31 January 2008 image has thus far been the best for me. My write up on it is -> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Snapshot_review/2008-01-31 Feb 11 21:04:06 kdean06, thanks, I'll give it a shot Feb 11 21:05:50 jadams_: Oh! Feb 11 21:06:07 Yeah, if you didn't "nand erase rootfs" before you burned your image, that's almost certainly your problem Feb 11 21:06:24 wurp2, sorry, been out of the neo game for months Feb 11 21:06:32 Just DON'T "nand erase" ;-) Feb 11 21:06:40 just trying to get it usable now to demo our app on it, it's an rss-driven ticketing app that should work pretty well Feb 11 21:06:46 jadams_: What happens if you ssh into the neo and start X by hand? Feb 11 21:06:55 wurp2, I have a development board anyway, wouldn't I be able to recover from that with JTAG? Feb 11 21:07:01 jadams_: Yeah Feb 11 21:07:10 abraxa_, same brokenness, I'm flashing with that 1-31-08 image now Feb 11 21:07:18 Aite Feb 11 21:07:22 It just scares me because I don't have a debug board Feb 11 21:07:40 once this is rocking I just need to write an app in python that'll accept a signature and upload it as a comment to the ticket, and it'll be pretty great Feb 11 21:07:45 jadams_: If you didn't nand erase rootfs before you started burning, you might as well save the time to boot it Feb 11 21:08:18 and erase rootfs and re-burn before you boot Feb 11 21:11:14 wurp2, I'm downloading the 1-31 images and then they'll be headed on the phone post nand erase rootfs Feb 11 21:17:11 wurp2: for the "time remaining" stuff, look up "USSD" (Unstructured Supplementary Service Data) Feb 11 21:18:35 mmontour: Cool, thanks! Feb 11 21:21:53 I don't know much about USSD myself, but I've seen it mentioned here and it looks like what my carrier uses for balance-remaining messages Feb 11 21:23:36 I don't know if you can get it though with the modem we hace Feb 11 21:25:03 I googled a Sony Ericsson page that mentions AT+CUSD - does the Calypso have that command? Feb 11 21:26:58 wurp2 - hey thanks for all the info dude! Feb 11 21:27:08 the bluetooth this is a must for cels, i agree Feb 11 21:27:10 that is so sweet Feb 11 21:27:28 mmontour: easy enough to just try it ... Feb 11 21:27:42 'unlike SMS, every single GSM handset in the world supports USSD' Feb 11 21:27:46 hi all, just curious what kernel image should be used with the latest qtopia 4.3.2 image? Feb 11 21:27:51 per http://www.truteq.com/tips/ussd/ Feb 11 21:27:55 as my one keeps on freezing each time it boots Feb 11 21:28:14 gets to the 'desktop' but then freezes with the 'hourglass' showing Feb 11 21:28:35 duffyd: Did you 'nand erase rootfs' before you burned qtopia? Feb 11 21:28:47 no Feb 11 21:28:48 'cause that doesn't sound like a kernel problem to me Feb 11 21:28:51 better do that :) Feb 11 21:29:07 * duffyd is scared of nand erase ;) Feb 11 21:29:16 * duffyd goes off to try this Feb 11 21:30:17 one other thing I would like clarification on is - can I upgrade my OM image via ipkg update && ipkg upgrade? Feb 11 21:31:02 It's good to be scared of nand erase Feb 11 21:31:07 Just don't forget the rootfs Feb 11 21:31:26 yup :) Feb 11 21:31:27 I fat fingered the rootfs one time, and it just gives an error message, which is good... Feb 11 21:31:52 er, to be extra clear, I mistyped it Feb 11 21:31:59 leaving it off will brick you Feb 11 21:32:11 I get confused/scared by the line feed issues in cu Feb 11 21:32:14 Well, I got an "OK" from sending an AT+CUSD command through libgsmd-tool but I didn't see any other data. I'll try it directly to the modem when I get home tonight Feb 11 21:32:49 mmontour: The docs on USSD are weird Feb 11 21:33:03 mmontour: They seem to be written from a POV that is a cross between end user & developer Feb 11 21:33:21 mmontour: Everything implies that you just text *XXXX#some request stuff# Feb 11 21:33:38 As in, the way you would text it with SMS Feb 11 21:33:43 BTW I recommend upgrading to the January u-boot snapshot - it fixes several bugs and should not require the "nand erase rootfs" any more. Feb 11 21:34:39 Hmm, I'm not sure that updating uboot doesn't scare me more than having to type 'nand erase rootfs' each time... Feb 11 21:34:40 mmontour, Just for the record, gllin is driver and not firmware, correct? Feb 11 21:34:50 does that with new uboot Feb 11 21:35:08 Actually, that should have been addressed generally, my apologies. :) Feb 11 21:35:18 kdean06: Yes, gllin is a userspace driver. Feb 11 21:35:43 Is there a technical possibility that a libre driver could be written for that chipset? Feb 11 21:35:54 mmontour: can you give a link to such a nice, working and safe u-boot? :-) Feb 11 21:36:05 (or exact revision) Feb 11 21:36:29 toxx_: mickeyl posted one near the end of January. I don't have a link at the moment, but you can search the list archives Feb 11 21:36:41 ok, thx Feb 11 21:36:47 None of those links work anymoe! Feb 11 21:37:17 I've checked. If I've overlooked it, please let me know. :) I'm using that version and need to link to it on my reviews. Feb 11 21:37:40 kdean06: It's technically possible, but unlikely unless some new developers join the reverse-engineering effort. It would be easy if the vendor would release docs, but that's extremely unlikely. Feb 11 21:38:14 Neat. :) Feb 11 21:39:01 But the Freerunner's IS libre, IIRC? I'm just trying to see if it's a technical (and legal) possibility to meet the "open" goal of OM and "user friendly" goal of consumer products or if one MUST (for technical or legal) reasons take a backseat. Feb 11 21:39:25 But I think I have my answer. :) Thanks. Feb 11 21:45:55 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/ appears to have the new u-boot snapshot Feb 11 21:46:43 mmontour: But have people tested it to verify that it's good enough for us guys w/ no debug board to install? Feb 11 21:47:14 mmontour: thank you! Feb 11 21:48:35 The one that mickeyl released has been tested by several people. I think the one on buildhost is the same one but I can't 100% confirm that at the moment. Note that there is a minor issue with the splash-screen rendering in that version, but it can be safely ignored Feb 11 21:49:03 It can be fixed. :) No ignoring needed. :D Feb 11 21:49:13 But that's not a functional problem. Feb 11 21:49:26 But I'm afraid to test nightlies of uBoot. :) Feb 11 21:50:50 ok, on gta01 (and, yes, I have a dev board), install of uboot (just done) was successfull: Feb 11 21:50:53 U-Boot 1.3.1+git0ec595243dc99edcd248bbcfbfd5a1dc860bde89+svn3817 (Jan 31 2008 - 01:55:57) Feb 11 21:51:01 (answer to "version") Feb 11 21:51:24 For what it's worth, I have never had a problem with flashing u-boot. The only times I've needed my debug board are when I bricked the device intentionally. Of course I can't make guarantees for anyone else. Feb 11 21:51:55 so... now I can avoid the "nand erase" part when loading a new rootfs to the phone, right? Feb 11 21:53:01 That's right - you should not need to "nand erase rootfs" with the new u-boot. Feb 11 21:54:15 ok... I'll try the snapshot mentioned above then! unfortunately, my daily phone just broke down completely, so I now *have* to use my neo as my primary phone... Feb 11 21:55:51 toxx_: Good luck with that. I'm still waiting for the power-management to improve before I take that step Feb 11 21:56:59 I've been using mine as my primary Feb 11 21:57:10 mmontour: well, that's the only issue where I think openmoko's is really needed, as the necessary kernel changes seem to be just to special (on not completely known hardware) to be done by the community Feb 11 21:57:29 As long as you're never away from a charger for more than 4 hours, and you're willing to accept a 25% lost call rate, it's fine :-) Feb 11 21:57:38 any movement at all on auto-gprs for the phone? Feb 11 21:58:08 auto-gprs? Feb 11 21:58:17 sure Feb 11 21:58:29 I've got a script that auto dials my t-mobile gprs, there's a tutorial on the wiki I wrote, etc. Feb 11 21:58:51 but I figure some gui to configure your gprs provider, with a table of known good settings for various providers, makes sense Feb 11 21:58:58 the big problem ATM is the lack of multiplexer Feb 11 21:59:06 SpeedEvil, oh yeah... Feb 11 21:59:11 which means that if gprs is up, no calls incoming Feb 11 21:59:13 well, as a single function it works well Feb 11 21:59:15 :) Feb 11 21:59:31 but I can see the issues there...will multiplexing work on GTA01 hardware? Feb 11 21:59:36 I mean, in theory Feb 11 21:59:43 It's solely a software thing Feb 11 21:59:50 aha Feb 11 21:59:56 any idea on the progress so far? Feb 11 22:01:56 It's due - IIRC - June 2007. Feb 11 22:03:21 lol Feb 11 22:07:39 konttori: I want to run a program directly on fb Feb 11 22:10:28 Is there an OpenMoko release yet? Feb 11 22:10:45 It's sort of escaped on its own. Feb 11 22:10:52 I's not really been released. Feb 11 22:11:23 We're working on a 0.8.2 release of gnash, and would like to be able to say "gnash 0.8.2 compiled for OpenMoko $INSERT_VERSION_HERE" Feb 11 22:11:24 nelson: You can buy the developer version of the phone and use it Feb 11 22:12:25 it's well-nigh impossible for us to make a binary release for a moving target. Feb 11 22:13:20 nelson: There are date-coded snapshots like "2007.11" but they become obsolete quite quickly. Feb 11 22:13:23 I don't think anyone is using anything other than 'moving target' versions of OM Feb 11 22:14:06 So you could say that you compile on version X, but it wouldn't be useful to anyone AFAIK Feb 11 22:14:15 hrm. then how can anybody report bugs except for "doesn't work fo rme"? Feb 11 22:14:38 There are daily builds Feb 11 22:14:44 The assumption at this point is that everyone's a developer Feb 11 22:14:44 People report bugs against them Feb 11 22:14:59 Then 3 days later, most people are on a different daily build Feb 11 22:15:47 .... and the bug reports become useless. Feb 11 22:16:21 nelson: Nope, almost all of the bugs last longer than that Feb 11 22:16:44 SpeedEvil: hrm. well, then, I think we'll have to target a daily build and live with it. Feb 11 22:16:54 nelson: how large is the gnash bin? Feb 11 22:17:11 how long is the uninstalled package set kept around for a daily build? Feb 11 22:17:28 The 'right' way to do it is to do the bb/oe thing. Feb 11 22:17:28 (I hope the answer isn't "one day"!) Feb 11 22:17:54 the packages are compiled as needed, as they change Feb 11 22:18:21 5118994 Feb 11 22:18:27 and then the mokomakefile makefile compiles it into an image Feb 11 22:18:34 DAMMIT MY FINELY TUNED CONNECT SCRIPT THAT ONCE WORKED NOW FAILS Feb 11 22:18:47 jadams_: :/ Feb 11 22:18:57 SpeedEvil: but .... wouldn't you be installing ipkgs on top of the base image? Feb 11 22:19:38 nelson: yes - the bb recipies can as I understand it either be used to make ipkgs, or put it into the image. Feb 11 22:19:53 I guess ... it seems like there are two ways to create an embedded system: build a static image on a bigger computer .... or if the computer has enough resources, allow it to install ipkgs. Feb 11 22:20:24 Given that the OM has communication capability built-in, it seems to me like "base image" + ipkg feed is the way to go. Feb 11 22:20:36 I've in the past installed - to the sd using ipkg-link GCC Feb 11 22:20:48 and all the required libs to build little programs Feb 11 22:21:08 hehe, native compilation IN YOUR POCKET! Feb 11 22:21:30 "Is that gcc in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?" Feb 11 22:21:32 It's not actually that slow. Feb 11 22:21:39 IIRC a kernel took a couple of hours Feb 11 22:21:42 speed isn't the constraint. RAM is. Feb 11 22:22:00 swap to SD isn't that slow. Feb 11 22:22:10 You can't run out of time (well, you can die ....) but you can easily run out of RAM with gcc. Feb 11 22:22:45 I don't know how flash-swap-friendly is gcc. Feb 11 22:22:55 works for me. Feb 11 22:23:08 The flash is a bit slow - but block acess times are good Feb 11 22:23:17 until your flash chip BURNS A SMOKING HOLE IN YOUR TROUSERS. Feb 11 22:23:22 :-) Feb 11 22:23:29 someone needs to take the time and do some retinkering Feb 11 22:23:40 with wear leveling inherent in the chip it's not that bad. Feb 11 22:23:52 its unbearable that its this frelling unmaintainable to install one app Feb 11 22:24:05 hmm.. with openmoko i could test swap over NFS over GPRS :) Feb 11 22:24:41 xcasex: yeah, right now OM is good for building whole images ... but not very good for writing an application. Feb 11 22:24:49 Right Feb 11 22:24:54 and that's a damn shame Feb 11 22:24:57 xcasex: basically, you need to become an OpenMoko developer in order to write even one application. Feb 11 22:25:16 Precisely which is to me unbearable Feb 11 22:25:32 i cant retool OM ever ytime i need to dry run an app. Feb 11 22:25:39 especially not when splitting time between clients. Feb 11 22:26:06 xcasex: if there was a way to download a set of headers, library stubs, and a cross-compiler, for a fixed OM version. Feb 11 22:26:23 xcasex: but I'm not sure that bb / oe gives you that option. Feb 11 22:26:39 nelson, at this point, i'd settle for a stable pmu Feb 11 22:26:41 nelson: OM did release a toolchain for developers who don't want to build the whole distribution - http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain (although I haven't used it myself) Feb 11 22:27:17 mmontour: for what version of OpenMoko? Feb 11 22:28:14 Presumably whatever was "current" when the it was released, but binaries built with it should continue to work on newer systems Feb 11 22:28:23 and ... once you have separately compiled applications, outside of the bb / oe world, how do you get them onto the phone? Feb 11 22:28:36 Presumably with a package manager, but where does that program look for packages? Feb 11 22:28:58 Can the browser handle a link to a .ipkg file correctly, by running the package manager? Feb 11 22:29:28 I don't know about the browser, but you can certainly scp a package to the phone and then "ipkg install" it from the terminal Feb 11 22:29:46 u can ipkg install http://...... Feb 11 22:30:17 ja, so, then the browser just needs to know to run "ipkg install %s" when it sees a .ipkg file being downloaded. Feb 11 22:30:37 and that's a pretty bog-standard thing for browsers, e.g. .pdf files. Feb 11 22:31:20 although almost al browsers refuse to install/execute code they download directly, they only support saving it, as otherwise it would be a huge potential security problem Feb 11 22:31:45 ipkg supports getting it via http Feb 11 22:31:58 Mek: How is it a security problem if they ask you if you want to run it? Feb 11 22:32:19 wurp2: because confirmation becomes automatic. Habituation rules the day. Feb 11 22:32:21 It is no less or more secure to download something then run it from the command line than to ask the user if they want to run it Feb 11 22:32:24 because probably most users won't read what is being asked, and just press okay Feb 11 22:32:47 "Are you sure you want to ``rm -rf /'' ? (Y/N)?" Feb 11 22:32:52 How many of those same users won't just go double click on it? Feb 11 22:33:18 Well, in general, confirmation messages should change the UI to confirm each time Feb 11 22:33:47 Or, ideally, everything you might do that wants confirmation should be undoable, but that's probably not practical on an OM machine Feb 11 22:34:14 couldnt you use uninstall the package? Feb 11 22:34:21 s/use/just Feb 11 22:34:43 For security purposes, a package that's rooting your box probably won't uninstall itself properly :-) Feb 11 22:35:02 wurp2: package installation is undoable assuming you didn't run out of memory. Feb 11 22:35:20 nelson: And assuming that the package lets itself be uninstalled Feb 11 22:35:35 for a device like this, it's probably best to allow a user to make an association between a .ipkg and "ipkg install %s", BUT Feb 11 22:35:57 otherwise, package installation should only happen through openmoko.org/ Feb 11 22:36:00 I am certainly not an ipkg guru, but I would think you can set up a hook that does arbitrary things while installing Feb 11 22:36:17 wurp2: yes, you can. WAY arbitrary. Feb 11 22:36:39 okay, so, really, that answers my initial question. Feb 11 22:36:48 "Open Moko packages should come from Open Moko". Feb 11 22:36:59 official repo is always a good thing Feb 11 22:37:01 What I was suggesting is that there should be some low level sandbox functionality that all unsafe ops happen in, that can then be commited or uncommited later Feb 11 22:37:24 But of course that's a theoretical point, not directly related to OM or your question Feb 11 22:37:36 wurp2: for package installation?? that would be hard. How would you "sandbox" install ssh, for example? Feb 11 22:37:59 Or anything that needed to bind to a port <1024 ? Feb 11 22:38:03 nelson: Make the whole file system a revision control system Feb 11 22:38:46 wurp2: realistically? jffs2? limited flash? bad things happening when you fill the fs? I don't think so. Feb 11 22:39:03 nelson: That would be why I said it wasn't practical on OM Feb 11 22:39:16 nelson: And why I started that sentence with 'ideally' Feb 11 22:39:21 if one really wants to "protect" the users, you only have two basic options. either only allow them to use a official repo or have signed packages certified by some 3rd party system like with S60v3 stuff is Feb 11 22:39:46 ofcourse you would want to allow advanced users to shoot themselves in the leg if they reall want to Feb 11 22:39:54 raynet++ Feb 11 22:40:06 or 3rd, have some sort of sandbox environment like Java to run random apps Feb 11 22:40:23 nelson: But... ext3 already supports journaling. Again, I am no expert, but I would think that it wouldn't cost too much to support one 'savepoint' so you could undo at least back to the previous savepoint Feb 11 22:41:03 wurp2: ZFS would be best for that, but it isnt very flash friendly i think Feb 11 22:47:25 is anyone using tmobile able to use the gprs manually as per http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GPRS ? I have custom connect scripts, but they've stopped working, and I'd really just like to get it going Feb 11 23:00:42 Gn folks Feb 11 23:30:31 where does feed reader get its feeds from? Feb 11 23:30:39 I can't add a new one through the UI, but if I can just get a feed on there... Feb 11 23:33:11 I'm SOOO close to what I wanted to do today... Feb 11 23:33:50 the same stuff i feed to the dog Feb 11 23:33:51 :) Feb 11 23:35:43 raster! Feb 11 23:35:57 jadams_: boop! Feb 11 23:36:19 I just saw that you were hired by openmoko Feb 11 23:36:22 I'm so happy for you :) Feb 11 23:36:40 I want e on this thing like my girlfriend wants the beatings to end Feb 11 23:39:01 * * OM Bug 1225 has been created by onno(AT)gmx.net Feb 11 23:39:02 * * visual enhancement for dfu-util Feb 11 23:39:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1225 Feb 11 23:39:07 anyway, does anyone know where feed reader keeps its config info? Or at least can anyone point me to the source for it somewhere? Feb 11 23:39:51 jadams_: e17 already works on it. Feb 11 23:39:58 what it does need is customising for the moko Feb 11 23:40:14 raster, do you have a build somewhere for download? Feb 11 23:40:15 well customising for a tiny-screen high-res device Feb 11 23:40:26 I know it won't work and I don't care Feb 11 23:40:35 e15 is what got me wanting to run linux in the first place way back in the day Feb 11 23:45:40 what do I pass to ipkg to tell it to install on the card? Feb 11 23:47:07 hmm Feb 11 23:47:08 not sure Feb 11 23:47:15 oh well Feb 11 23:47:18 I'll work more on this tomorrow Feb 11 23:47:26 ZERO billable work today because I fiddled with my moko for half a day Feb 11 23:47:36 but it's for a project that we intend to use mokos for long term, so it's worth it Feb 11 23:47:47 (having said that, any phone with a feed reader will do) Feb 11 23:48:25 cool Feb 11 23:48:39 i assume u need/want 802.11 right? Feb 11 23:50:08 I'm fine without it Feb 11 23:50:15 GPRS + feed reader is workable for what I want Feb 11 23:50:19 just incremental update Feb 12 01:10:42 hi all, can someone explain what I should remove to fix the "One Transitor Too Many" problem> Feb 12 01:10:45 ? Feb 12 01:11:30 rinat: wasn't that a problem already solved on the newer units, and only the OM devs have the old ones? Feb 12 01:11:54 cesarb: yes, and I have the old unit :) Feb 12 01:12:04 rinat: ouch :P Feb 12 01:12:54 am i correct in the assumption that i should just remove that q1001 transistor? Feb 12 01:13:06 rinat: better ask on the relevant mailing lists, I think most of the devs which can help you don't lurk here Feb 12 01:13:24 understood. Feb 12 01:13:30 how did you get your hands on a pre-mass production unit? Feb 12 01:13:47 cesarb: thx Feb 12 01:13:56 Vegar: got from a friend Feb 12 01:58:43 oh dear, Microsoft is going to start making mobile telephones http://blogs.computerworld.com/microsoft_succumbs_to_apple_envy_buys_danger Feb 12 01:59:09 no Feb 12 01:59:14 just buy someone who already does Feb 12 01:59:38 raster: yes but technically when you own a company that makes telephone "you also make them" Feb 12 01:59:47 telephones* Feb 12 02:00:28 sure Feb 12 02:00:38 but they are just buying the people who make it Feb 12 02:00:42 :) Feb 12 02:01:16 raster: yeah Microsoft purchased Word and Excel, thats pretty normal Feb 12 02:01:24 :) Feb 12 02:02:51 raster: the headache is now is Microsoft has a vested interest for a product it makes the software for to succeed over its competition who (suckers) also use the same software stack Feb 12 02:04:16 raster: the laugh is allot of the really nice new code that was added by such companies as Sony and HTC to the Windows mobile stack under the "shared source" agreement is now being used to compete directly against them lol Feb 12 02:04:58 Microsoft "thanks for the code guys now Im going to wipe the floor with you" Feb 12 02:05:29 linux_galore: headache for who? Feb 12 02:05:36 headache for the "partners" Feb 12 02:05:41 good for linux Feb 12 02:05:57 as the partners may now decide theyare better off not competing with ms anymore Feb 12 02:05:58 :) Feb 12 02:08:23 raster: Im amazed how many companies still havent figured out that if you partner with Microsoft and make a profitable product Microsoft will use the same exact code you debugged and added IP to compete against you. Bit like feeding the devil then crying about the pitch fork a fork stuck in your back later on Feb 12 02:08:50 then again Feb 12 02:08:53 same with open source Feb 12 02:08:55 s/a fork// Feb 12 02:08:55 linux_galore meant: raster: Im amazed how many companies still havent figured out that if you partner with Microsoft and make a profitable product Microsoft will use the same exact code you debugged and added IP to compete against you. Bit like feeding the devil then crying ... Feb 12 02:08:56 in principle Feb 12 02:09:25 raster: yes accept its a more level playing field Feb 12 02:10:29 also just because you use Linux doesnt mean you have to release "all you applications" as open source Feb 12 02:12:35 your* Feb 12 02:14:33 if you look at the shared source license that mobile makers go in to with Windows Mobile you will immediately notice its a "you share we take" agreement. Bit like one lending someone a jumper then asking them later if you can borrow a T-Shirt one day and they tell you to go jump. Feb 12 02:24:42 does suspend work in any version of openmoko? Feb 12 02:24:54 i mean suspend with waking on call Feb 12 02:32:24 linux_galore: the shared src license wont cover independently written apps no from last i checkedt based off ms code i'd believe Feb 12 02:32:28 much like gpl Feb 12 02:37:27 raster: yes but its very hard to build independent code when you partnering one a complete product Feb 12 02:37:34 your* Feb 12 02:37:53 they can write their own executables/apps Feb 12 02:38:07 if they want to modify core os things - they are stuffed. Feb 12 02:38:10 but same as linux Feb 12 02:38:16 raster: true but often they may want to just modify a product that is already available Feb 12 02:38:21 modify kernel or existing gpl/lgpl apps/ibs that majke up the os... Feb 12 02:39:00 Ive seen windows mobile 6.1, not bad looking\ Feb 12 02:39:22 still slow though from what the engineers tell me Feb 12 02:40:02 anyway Im out **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Feb 12 03:00:07 2008