**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Feb 13 02:59:57 2008
Feb 13 03:06:19 <KrisAbsinthe> Ok, So the OMAP is a type of ARM. the cross tools for GTA01 will work(as i have been told) does this mean that i can use binaries from OM on my OMAP device? Sorry to sound like a "newb" but i have never built a distro before
Feb 13 03:36:18 <balrog-kun> KrisAbsinthe: yes, you can
Feb 13 03:36:58 <balrog-kun> usually the other way also but not always (OMAP is based on an ARMv5 iirc)
Feb 13 03:38:01 <balrog-kun> OMAP is a system-on-chip including an ARM core, kind of like S3c2410
Feb 13 03:48:33 <CIA-15> openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4060 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (12 files in 2 dirs): gsmd: add strlcpy, strlcat functions (Paulius Zaleckas)
Feb 13 04:00:32 <KrisAbsinthe> balrog-kun: Thanks for the info, ill list you as a contrib for the OM port to HTC wizard
Feb 13 04:05:53 <balrog-kun> KrisAbsinthe: oh, no need, but thanks :)
Feb 13 04:06:36 <KrisAbsinthe> It will be a great device as soon as I get a decent OS on it
Feb 13 05:07:28 <doc|home> from the wiki: "Power management is a lower priority than all of the above for obvious reasons. However, I suspect suspend/resume will get some attention before GTA02 ships"
Feb 13 05:07:35 <doc|home> what sort of lifetime is the battery giving now?
Feb 13 05:10:12 <Psi> i get around 7 hours in full PM mode
Feb 13 05:11:05 <Psi> that's gta01
Feb 13 05:11:29 <doc|home> any ideas on gta02?
Feb 13 05:11:53 <Psi> none
Feb 13 05:12:31 <Psi> but with the power bug fixed it should be much better
Feb 13 05:12:41 <doc|home> hopefully :)
Feb 13 05:14:39 <Psi> if i had to guess id expect maybe 4 days
Feb 13 05:19:04 <doc|home> that'd be good enough for me anyway
Feb 13 05:20:11 <Sonicadvance1> nice
Feb 13 05:20:22 <Psi> ?
Feb 13 05:20:36 <Sonicadvance1> Random Gibba Gabba
Feb 13 05:23:14 <P2E> mr t note: "jibba jabba" is spelled with the letter j
Feb 13 05:23:58 <P2E> unless you are referring to bloody bodily pieces created from explosions, possibly due to rocket launchers, and the style of techno/hardcore music.
Feb 13 05:24:44 <Sonicadvance1> Gibblets? :D
Feb 13 05:26:35 <P2E> you, sir, have been eating too much pet food
Feb 13 05:33:46 <Sonicadvance1> Maybe a little bit
Feb 13 05:58:45 <Atul_> #join c
Feb 13 05:59:02 <Atul_> #join C
Feb 13 06:11:09 <P2E> Atul_: try putting a slash where the # is and the # in front of c
Feb 13 06:50:17 <Atul_> P2E, By Mistake
Feb 13 06:59:17 <CIA-15> openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4061 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/usock.c: gsmd: remove dead imsi code and fix bug (Paulius Zaleckas)
Feb 13 08:21:48 <Hopscotch> good morning
Feb 13 08:52:18 <SpeedEvil> I've found a way to make GPRS feel much faster.
Feb 13 08:52:40 <SpeedEvil> On the sownside, my DSL connection now is exhibiting 8s pings.
Feb 13 08:52:57 <SpeedEvil> s/sown/down/
Feb 13 08:52:58 <apt> SpeedEvil meant: On the downside, my DSL connection now is exhibiting 8s pings.
Feb 13 09:05:19 <CIA-15> openmoko: 03tick * r4062 10/developers/tick/ (9 files in 3 dirs): 
Feb 13 09:05:19 <CIA-15> openmoko: stackutil: A debug util
Feb 13 09:05:19 <CIA-15> openmoko: ecoreglib: Integrate the main loop of E into glib
Feb 13 09:17:12 <TRIsoft> morning
Feb 13 09:28:57 <zash> mornin'
Feb 13 10:25:49 * ScaredyCat pokes XorA|gone
Feb 13 10:38:26 <florian> good morning
Feb 13 10:39:45 <CIA-15> freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r76 10/trunk/software/gsm0710muxd/data/ (gsm0710muxd.conf org.freesmartphone.GSM.MUX.service.in): gsm0710muxd: prepare dbus interface for system activation
Feb 13 10:52:25 <Atul_> Tick, Hi I face problem while executing the AT commands it gives error message like "Unable to handle packet type2" while executing 4-5 AT commands
Feb 13 11:05:08 <ScaredyCat> w00t!
Feb 13 11:28:10 * ScaredyCat hugs artigo
Feb 13 11:56:12 <niv_> hi all
Feb 13 11:56:47 <niv_> hrw: you here?
Feb 13 12:11:29 <smilingMan> I am seeking to sync my gpe with the pc, did anyone have luck using opensync 0.36?
Feb 13 12:11:35 <smilingMan> is this the right place to ask?
Feb 13 12:12:19 <smilingMan> second question: do you use the same IM account on the handheld and the pc? I am and this creates some issues
Feb 13 12:12:34 <smilingMan> what is the practical solution?
Feb 13 12:22:11 <wirrwarr> heya~
Feb 13 12:24:10 <smilingMan> wirrwarr : hi, I got my gtalk account on my handheld as well as on my pc, but when both work, some messeges arrive only to the pc
Feb 13 12:24:35 <smilingMan> are you guys using on IM account for the pc and another for the handheld?
Feb 13 13:40:55 <Tuju> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973#.22Phase_2.22_.28GTA02.2C_.22Mass_Market.22.29
Feb 13 13:41:04 <Tuju> Any idea when they might be accepting orders?
Feb 13 13:41:39 <SpeedEvil> Maybe april
Feb 13 13:41:59 <SpeedEvil> It's not going to be user-ready at that time.
Feb 13 13:42:00 <Tuju> sounds good :)
Feb 13 13:42:17 <Tuju> i'd be happy just to place and receive calls and sms
Feb 13 13:42:37 <SpeedEvil> It - mostly - works for that at the moment
Feb 13 13:43:02 <Tuju> well, that's more than enough... my e65 won't even hold power on.
Feb 13 13:49:23 <Tuju> SpeedEvil thanks for the info! 
Feb 13 15:41:09 <PBeck> hi
Feb 13 16:56:01 <Zalmon> hello
Feb 13 16:56:21 <Zalmon> does anybody know how much battery life the freerunner has at the moment?
Feb 13 16:57:08 <Zalmon> anybody?
Feb 13 16:57:38 <_diego__> it's not selled yet... so i can't check ^^
Feb 13 16:57:46 <Zalmon> :) i know that
Feb 13 16:58:07 <Zalmon> but maybe some of you were testers of the latest hardware or know something i couldn't find on the wiki
Feb 13 16:58:45 <_diego__> i think that with software that are not still ready is hard to figure out...
Feb 13 16:59:00 <raboof> i heard it's not entirely clear if the battery life problems we're having are mostly hardware or mostly software...
Feb 13 16:59:11 <raboof> i'm definitely not an insider though :)
Feb 13 16:59:29 <vininim> Zalmon: check openmoko-kernel mailing list, some hardware bugs were found/fixed that seems to make it pretty good (at hardware side)
Feb 13 17:00:39 <Zalmon> ok, thank you very much
Feb 13 17:01:37 <vininim> just my speculation/understanding on what I read though, but people are enthusiastic =)
Feb 13 17:26:48 * ScaredyCat hands mickey|flu a cookie ...
Feb 13 17:26:56 <ScaredyCat> even when he's sick he can fix stuff
Feb 13 17:29:43 <Mononoke> wouldn't be better to make him soup/tea ?
Feb 13 17:36:00 <ScaredyCat> chicken soup, but I don't really want to get too close if he has the flu ;)
Feb 13 17:36:08 <ScaredyCat> cookie on a stick 
Feb 13 17:37:32 <Mononoke> eheh
Feb 13 17:37:48 <Mononoke> you could try implementing chicken soup over tcp/ip
Feb 13 17:40:13 <robtaylor> Mononoke: or tcp/ip over chicken soup...
Feb 13 17:42:18 <Mononoke> that might be possible
Feb 13 19:08:25 <mortenlysgaard> Hi, anyone here with a little more experience than me in c++. I'm wondering how to most effectively make a on screen keyboard: This is the idea: http://www.exideas.com/ME/DeviceSimulators/NintendoDS.html
Feb 13 19:10:07 <SpeedEvil> python works too
Feb 13 19:10:09 <mortenlysgaard> I've tried gtk, and it worked ok, but the app got quite heavy because of the massive amount of objects, 3*3 fields, each containing (3*3)+1 labels and fields. So anuone have a good idea of how to draw 9 fields who can take input and show letters?
Feb 13 19:10:23 <mortenlysgaard> I've done it in python
Feb 13 19:11:13 <mortenlysgaard> I'm the maker of the FingerKeyboard project on projects.openmoko: http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/finger-keyboard/
Feb 13 19:11:27 <SpeedEvil> what's your best wpm for stuff?
Feb 13 19:12:23 <mortenlysgaard> Sorry, I didn't get you..
Feb 13 19:12:31 <SpeedEvil> words per minute
Feb 13 19:12:47 <mortenlysgaard> I dunno, i don't own a neo
Feb 13 19:12:49 <mortenlysgaard> :S
Feb 13 19:12:51 <SpeedEvil> ah
Feb 13 19:13:24 <mortenlysgaard> Can't afford both gta1 and 2, so i'll have to wait
Feb 13 19:13:56 <mortenlysgaard> What i'm certain is that it's one of the better ways to input text on the small screen
Feb 13 19:14:08 <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure.
Feb 13 19:14:15 <SpeedEvil> T9 can be quite fast
Feb 13 19:14:39 <mortenlysgaard> Yeah, but it's patented, and also unoptimised
Feb 13 19:15:13 <mortenlysgaard> Would be much more efficient if the most used letters where clumped together
Feb 13 19:15:40 <SpeedEvil> I don't know I agree
Feb 13 19:16:03 <SpeedEvil> If there are few enough keys that you can get between them without much delay...
Feb 13 19:16:53 <mortenlysgaard> You mean T9?
Feb 13 19:17:22 <SpeedEvil> ues
Feb 13 19:17:37 <mortenlysgaard> Yeah, true
Feb 13 19:18:03 <mortenlysgaard> Hmm.. I just got a brainwave
Feb 13 19:18:21 <mortenlysgaard> You know how the messageEase input works?
Feb 13 19:18:25 <SpeedEvil> complex multi-action sequences to make a char only have a big win if they put in a lot of data
Feb 13 19:18:49 <SpeedEvil> And don't require the user to memorise lots
Feb 13 19:19:10 <mortenlysgaard> Yes, true
Feb 13 19:20:02 <mortenlysgaard> But sometimes you'll want to write long sms' or note somthing down, then it's painfully slow to use the standard cellphone way
Feb 13 19:20:06 <raster> bing
Feb 13 19:20:39 <ljp> thats where bt keyboards come in
Feb 13 19:20:53 <SpeedEvil> Or voice notes.
Feb 13 19:22:04 <mortenlysgaard> If your dragging a bt keyboard, couldn't you just grab your laptop?
Feb 13 19:22:16 <SpeedEvil> There are BT keybs and BT keybs.
Feb 13 19:22:19 <ljp> i want to ee a keyboard that does morse code. only one button.
Feb 13 19:22:22 <ljp> see
Feb 13 19:22:35 <SpeedEvil> From the full-sized to credit card sized
Feb 13 19:22:55 <ljp> or a software old skool rotary dialer 
Feb 13 19:22:58 <mortenlysgaard> True, frogboard or somthing is really small
Feb 13 19:23:19 <SpeedEvil> There are even fgolding things about the size and the weight of a neo
Feb 13 19:25:28 <mortenlysgaard> Well, there are a million reasons for me to not make this app, but I want to, if for nothing else just to prove it to myself that I can make something usefull. So, my question still stands, is there any god way of drawing in c++ any of you know of?
Feb 13 19:25:49 <ljp> qtopia :)
Feb 13 19:26:29 <mortenlysgaard> Err... Don't like qt, no other options?
Feb 13 19:27:01 <ljp> i guess you could try gmm 
Feb 13 19:27:13 * ljp shivers
Feb 13 19:27:19 <mortenlysgaard> Bad?
Feb 13 19:27:53 <ljp> its a c++ wrapper for gtk
Feb 13 19:28:11 <ljp> why dont you like qt?
Feb 13 19:28:14 <mortenlysgaard> why not gtk++?
Feb 13 19:29:24 <mortenlysgaard> Well, never tried it, mostly because it's made by a big company, contra many hobbydevelopers.
Feb 13 19:29:35 <ljp> same basic thing as gmm
Feb 13 19:29:48 <ljp> trolltech is not big
Feb 13 19:30:17 <mortenlysgaard> It's norwegian, just as me :D
Feb 13 19:30:40 <ljp> i dont think big companies allow their CEO to druken wrestle with develoeprs
Feb 13 19:31:11 <mortenlysgaard> Hehe, it's norway afterall =D You from norway too?
Feb 13 19:31:29 <ljp> nope. originally from US but living in australia
Feb 13 19:32:35 <mortenlysgaard> Ok, quite far from Norway then, anyways, we're living in a small world
Feb 13 19:32:44 * ljp loves it in australia
Feb 13 19:32:53 <mortenlysgaard> =D
Feb 13 19:33:01 <mortenlysgaard> But ljp, you know how to use qtopia?
Feb 13 19:33:05 <ljp> yes
Feb 13 19:33:18 <ljp> i work for trolltech :)
Feb 13 19:33:52 <mortenlysgaard> Ok, i'm looking on the sites for it now, is it a whole OS for the neo?
Feb 13 19:34:09 <ljp> just gui. we use the openmoko distribution
Feb 13 19:34:28 <ljp> at least for the neo
Feb 13 19:35:10 <mortenlysgaard> Ok, so if i'd like to make a hello world app in qtopia, what tools do i need for starters. I'm on a gnome desktop with qt libs, but no kde. I don't own a neo
Feb 13 19:35:55 <ljp> youcold grab the vmware sdk isoa dn isntall that. there is a way to just install the tools and such
Feb 13 19:36:53 <ljp> just mount ths iso, extras qtopia.iso. mount that and run manual-install.sh
Feb 13 19:37:04 <ljp> extract the qtopia.iso
Feb 13 19:37:27 <ljp> hmm which reminds me, that script is in the wrong place
Feb 13 19:37:43 <mortenlysgaard> Hehe, you're going a bit fast for me
Feb 13 19:38:02 <mortenlysgaard> So, i have to install a VM so that i can emu. the neo?
Feb 13 19:38:07 <ljp> maybe i will add qtopia.iso to the downloads 
Feb 13 19:38:24 <ljp> no, the vmware is mostly for windows and mac developers
Feb 13 19:39:10 <mortenlysgaard> Ok, so do i need to emu. or can i run native in my gentoo, gnome env.?
Feb 13 19:39:42 <ljp> if you install the qtopia.iso, which I will put up at qtopia.net when i get to work, you can run it natively
Feb 13 19:39:50 <ljp> no emu required
Feb 13 19:40:01 <AmR-eye> amon-ra everyone
Feb 13 19:40:09 <AmR-eye> Would you like to read the reveal?
Feb 13 19:40:27 <mortenlysgaard> Ok, you've got the qtopia.iso?
Feb 13 19:40:33 <AmR-eye> It involves biblical figures
Feb 13 19:40:58 <ljp> mortenlysgaard: yes, if you can wait an hour or so for me to get into work, i will upload one at qtopia.net
Feb 13 19:41:02 <AmR-eye> yes or no?
Feb 13 19:41:21 <AmR-eye> it must not be given against will
Feb 13 19:41:25 <mortenlysgaard> ljp, Cool :D
Feb 13 19:41:50 <AmR-eye> BEGINNITIO REVELATIONEM
Feb 13 19:41:55 <AmR-eye> DECODE BIBLIA
Feb 13 19:41:57 <mortenlysgaard> ljp, Are you a qtopia dev.?
Feb 13 19:42:03 <AmR-eye> Revel - Abraham is associated with the Egyptian pharaoh Amenemhat I (translates: amen is the head) who worshiped the god Amun (Amen). Abraham god then be associated with in the Abrahamic religions god as amun, amon, omon, amen and the deity aamon. Abraham/Amenemhet I
Feb 13 19:42:15 <ljp> mortenlysgaard: yes. i developed the neo port of qtopia
Feb 13 19:42:24 <AmR-eye> Revel - Jacob = King Yakubher
Feb 13 19:42:24 <AmR-eye> Revel - Moses = Thutmose III
Feb 13 19:42:24 <AmR-eye> Revel - David = Psusennes I
Feb 13 19:42:24 <AmR-eye> Revel - Solomon = Siamun (translates: son of amun)
Feb 13 19:42:24 <AmR-eye> Revel - James = Ptolemy Philadelphus
Feb 13 19:42:27 <AmR-eye> Revel - Thomas Judas Didymus = Alexander Helios
Feb 13 19:42:29 <AmR-eye> Revel - Mary Magdalene = Cleopatra Selene II
Feb 13 19:42:32 <AmR-eye> FINALIZE REVELATIONEM
Feb 13 19:42:34 <Stephmw> somebody kick that bot please
Feb 13 19:42:38 <AmR-eye> BIBLIA CHARACTER 1
Feb 13 19:42:43 * SpeedEvil kicks AmR-eye.
Feb 13 19:42:43 <AmR-eye> REVELATIONEM DE CHRISTUS
Feb 13 19:42:43 <AmR-eye> Revel - JESUS = CAESARION, Ptolemy XV, King of kings, little ceasar, Isa, Jesus
Feb 13 19:42:46 <AmR-eye> The son of Julius Ceasar / Divine Julius and Clepatra VII / Goddes Isis
Feb 13 19:42:49 <AmR-eye> Married to his half sister at "wedding in cana"
Feb 13 19:42:52 * SpeedEvil kicks AmR-eye in the crotch.
Feb 13 19:43:07 <ljp> ignore is wonderful as well
Feb 13 19:43:28 <mortenlysgaard> ljp, Kinda cool, you work at TrollTech or are you doing charity?
Feb 13 19:43:37 <ljp> at Trollech
Feb 13 19:43:44 <ljp> we develop qtopia in australia
Feb 13 19:45:29 <mortenlysgaard> ljp, Wow, well, have to say i admire everyone that works with OpenSource
Feb 13 19:45:39 <ljp> me too
Feb 13 19:46:45 <mortenlysgaard> ljp, http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=55 Is this usable, or should i wait for that .iso?
Feb 13 19:47:34 <ljp> that is the vmware iso, it will contain a qtopia.iso that contains the toolchain, qtopia binaries and scripts and things
Feb 13 19:48:03 <ljp> depends on your bandwidth, the qtopia.iso is half that size
Feb 13 19:48:33 <mortenlysgaard> Ok
Feb 13 19:48:49 <mortenlysgaard> This then? http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=38
Feb 13 19:48:58 <mortenlysgaard> Only the toolchain?
Feb 13 19:52:52 <mortenlysgaard> ljp; Q: Doesn't qtopia use X?
Feb 13 19:54:21 <balrog-kun> no, it doesn't
Feb 13 19:54:26 <balrog-kun> by default
Feb 13 19:55:02 <mortenlysgaard> Why toss away code that's so tested and tried?
Feb 13 19:55:43 <balrog-kun> uhg.. that's been discussed soooooooo many times
Feb 13 19:56:20 <mortenlysgaard> I'm just asking, not criticising
Feb 13 19:56:24 <kdean06> Can we add it to the topic?
Feb 13 19:56:34 <balrog-kun> you could ask google
Feb 13 19:57:01 <kdean06> mortenlysgaard, SHort answer: Open platforms enable as many toolkits as possible, and there's a ton of X dependant ones.
Feb 13 19:57:08 <ljp> becasue it adds another level to things
Feb 13 19:57:20 <kdean06> Oh, sorry, wrong question. :D
Feb 13 19:57:36 <ljp> one an embedded device you are probably not going to have more than one toolkit
Feb 13 19:58:31 <mortenlysgaard> Tru, ok, good reason
Feb 13 19:59:02 <mortenlysgaard> But what does qtopia use then? I's own window system?
Feb 13 19:59:59 <ljp> yes. QWS Qt Window Server
Feb 13 20:00:18 <mortenlysgaard> Hm, sounds sound ;)
Feb 13 20:00:19 <ljp> runs on the framebuffer
Feb 13 20:02:27 <mortenlysgaard> ljp; Well, that app i was talking about. What i need is to make somthing like this: http://www.exideas.com/ME/DeviceSimulators/NintendoDS.html
Feb 13 20:04:11 <mortenlysgaard> ljp; That is a x*x area filled with keys with 9 labels on, it also has to capture events (mouse) in some way. When i did this in gtk it got wery heavy, to many objects, labels and buttons. Any idea of a way to make this less heavy?
Feb 13 20:05:16 <brgs> mortenlysgaard: pure xt?
Feb 13 20:07:55 <mortenlysgaard> brgs; xt?
Feb 13 20:08:06 <mortenlysgaard> x terminal?
Feb 13 20:08:52 <brgs> mortenlysgaard: Good old X Toolkit.  Use one big label and catch all the mouseevents in the
Feb 13 20:08:59 <brgs> mainloop.
Feb 13 20:09:56 <GoldenHawk> Hi all :)  I've been hearing about 'android' and I wonder if it will play nice with openmoko... for example, can an android implementation be made into software that can be opened and run under openmoko
Feb 13 20:10:19 <mortenlysgaard> brgs; Hm.. first, how would i format the text using one label?
Feb 13 20:12:18 <mortenlysgaard> GoldenHawk; Although Android is linux it probably won't play natively with the Openmoko. But if Android don't flops, (probably not since it's google) There will garanteed be some compatibillity project
Feb 13 20:12:39 <kdean06> GoldenHawk, Android is not all Free Software and is fundimentally different than what OpenMoko is. 
Feb 13 20:12:56 <GoldenHawk> kdean06: Do you know which parts are not free software?
Feb 13 20:13:23 <kdean06> Specifically, no, I've not looked too much into it. Java frightens me.
Feb 13 20:14:56 <brgs> mortenlysgaard: I was thinking about something like a drawing area.  You'ld have to paint the text, where you want it.
Feb 13 20:15:34 <GoldenHawk> mortenlysgaard: Yeah someone will probably make it run on the Neo 1973.. since it's designed to run Linux and android, as far as I understand, is under the Apache license.  But what I wonder is if android can be encapsulated within an openmoko program (similar to how a android emulator can be run on PC) with access to the hardware.
Feb 13 20:15:51 <GoldenHawk> Or like kdean06 says, some sort of compatibility layer
Feb 13 20:16:07 <GoldenHawk> But if it's not free software then I don't care anymore :p  I need to find out exactly what's restricted if anything.
Feb 13 20:17:17 <mortenlysgaard> GoldenHawk; I'd rather stick with OpenMoko than Anroid, mostly beacuse OpenMoko is _true_ Open Source. And based on C code, not shitty java
Feb 13 20:17:19 <kdean06> GoldenHawk, I'm sure chunks will come from the Android (as a project) thought if like a default android image will work, I don't know or really care. But I'm sure that android-based apps, written as free software, will eventually make their way onto a Neo.
Feb 13 20:17:32 <kdean06> If that matters in the long run is a different story. :P
Feb 13 20:18:29 <GoldenHawk> mortenlysgaard: I agree with your sentiment :)  I'm just curious.
Feb 13 20:18:37 <zedstar> gtk+ gotta be the way to go openmoko, maemo, and now ALP... that is a quite a range you could easily move your apps across
Feb 13 20:19:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1227 has been created by onno(AT)gmx.net
Feb 13 20:19:02 <cdbot2> * * Screen saver during call
Feb 13 20:19:03 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1227
Feb 13 20:19:34 <GoldenHawk> Hm.. these are all good points.
Feb 13 20:23:46 <Fuzzy> has anyone considered compiz on the phone yet?
Feb 13 20:24:58 <zash> ehm
Feb 13 20:25:00 <zash> not yet
Feb 13 20:25:00 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1228 has been created by onno(AT)gmx.net
Feb 13 20:25:02 <cdbot2> * * SIM PIN entry has no 'back' button
Feb 13 20:25:03 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1228
Feb 13 20:25:44 <zash> Fuzzy: afaik there is no 3d-support in current drivers
Feb 13 20:26:33 <SpeedEvil> There is no planned 3D support for freerunner.
Feb 13 20:26:35 <SpeedEvil> Ever.
Feb 13 20:26:36 <Fuzzy> what video chipset is it using?
Feb 13 20:26:38 <GoldenHawk> Fuzzy: If I recall correctly from the wiki, 3D won't be available on the Neo 1973 due to NDAs..  I don't suppose there's any reason not to support compiz-style 3D in openmoko eventually, but it will depend on being ported to an open-phone that supports it.
Feb 13 20:26:40 <SpeedEvil> 2D accel only
Feb 13 20:26:50 <GoldenHawk> Oh freerunner?  Is that what it's called now?
Feb 13 20:26:58 <SpeedEvil> GoldenHawk: yes
Feb 13 20:27:00 <GoldenHawk> Neat.
Feb 13 20:27:02 <GoldenHawk> Sounds better.
Feb 13 20:27:23 <SpeedEvil> yes, it makes it clear that it can be dropped off buildings without damage.
Feb 13 20:27:39 <GoldenHawk> o.o  Can it really?
Feb 13 20:27:47 <GoldenHawk> I don't intend to try it regardless :p
Feb 13 20:28:10 <SpeedEvil> No - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/freerunning
Feb 13 20:28:55 <GoldenHawk> Oh :)
Feb 13 20:35:22 <kdean06> GoldenHawk, Freerunner and Neo1973 are distinct SKUs.
Feb 13 20:39:05 <GoldenHawk> Oh.
Feb 13 20:39:13 <GoldenHawk> So they're not related?
Feb 13 20:40:02 <ljp> mortenlysgaard: qtopia was made to do those things. any app can easily get access to mouse and key events
Feb 13 20:40:48 <kdean06> They're related but they're not the same.
Feb 13 20:41:18 <kdean06> Neo1973 is the first generation of handheld "phones" from FIC/OpenMoko Inc. Freerunner is the second-generation.
Feb 13 20:41:49 <mortenlysgaard> ljp; I see you want me to try qtopia, and I'll gladly do it, but I'll need a little help to get started, only used gtk before
Feb 13 20:43:50 <mortenlysgaard> ljp; Looked on the tuts on the qtopia site, seems really clean and easy. So if it's ligthweigth and low level too it's perfect
Feb 13 20:49:49 <GoldenHawk> kdean06: Oh I see.
Feb 13 21:00:42 <mortenlysgaard> ljp; Do qtopia apps run just like any gtk app on the neo or does somehting have to be done to make it work?
Feb 13 21:01:21 <wurp2> mortenlysgaard: You should run qtopia (an alternative to openmoko) if you're running qt apps
Feb 13 21:01:34 <wurp2> mortenlysgaard: It's a different OS stack
Feb 13 21:02:15 <mortenlysgaard> wurp2; Ok, so it's a bit like gnome/kde?
Feb 13 21:02:35 <balrog-kun> just try it out
Feb 13 21:02:50 <mortenlysgaard> balrog-kun; If i just had a Neo
Feb 13 21:03:06 <wurp2> mortenlysgaard: Yeah
Feb 13 21:03:14 <wurp2> mortenlysgaard: Only a little deeper
Feb 13 21:03:42 <wurp2> Since they appear to expect different versions of some apps above the kernel but below the windowing system
Feb 13 21:03:54 <balrog-kun> Qtopia runs on PC also, even with a pretty Neo1973 skin
Feb 13 21:04:06 <mortenlysgaard> wurp2; Yeah ofc. because gnome/kde have some cross compability, Openmoko/Qtopia doesn't
Feb 13 21:04:33 <balrog-kun> Qtopia has something in commong with KDE, the qt library, but KDE is only a desktop environment
Feb 13 21:04:36 <mortenlysgaard> balrog-kun; Ok, but then i'd need a vm, and i can't get on e working
Feb 13 21:04:38 <balrog-kun> not a whole stack
Feb 13 21:05:17 <mortenlysgaard> balrog-kun; Yeah, I know, but it's the most in common thing i could remember
Feb 13 21:06:55 <wurp2> kdean06: It looks like the 2/13 build is a loss
Feb 13 21:07:27 <kdean06> For users, yes. I think it's a relatively minor fix though before it works well.
Feb 13 21:07:40 <kdean06> All of the problems were really the same cause, modules/kernel mismatch.
Feb 13 21:07:57 <wurp2> kdean06: And this is the first build migrated to the new kernel?
Feb 13 21:08:07 <wurp2> Did you try running it w/ the old kernel?
Feb 13 21:08:16 <wurp2> I wonder if they just shouldn't have put a kernel image out with it
Feb 13 21:08:37 <wurp2> I am running a 12/17 build right now, to avoid the keyboard issue :-(
Feb 13 21:09:16 <wurp2> No one seems to have updated my crappy page about it with some real advice about adding keyboard back to the gtconf and running matchbox-keyboard in daemon mode
Feb 13 21:09:27 <wurp2> I may play some with it tonight, since I'm back on a build that has that stuff going
Feb 13 21:09:43 <kdean06> Yes, it's the first 2.6.24 build. And I tried the 2.6.22 image, sound doesn't work. :)
Feb 13 21:10:13 <kdean06> I expect that tomorrow or the day after that will be fixed, and you could toss in a modules tarball yourself (I always run out of space). 
Feb 13 21:16:48 <wurp2> I will probably limit my playing to getting the matchbox-keyboard working better.  I'll use the 11th build as my baseline
Feb 13 21:16:54 <wurp2> If I find time to do anything at all, that is
Feb 13 21:18:25 <mmontour> kdean06: SD-card support is still broken in 2.6.24 (at least it was the last time I checked). 
Feb 13 21:18:47 <wurp2> that's kind of a show stopper
Feb 13 21:19:02 <kdean06> :(
Feb 13 21:19:13 <kdean06> So it is the SD card, and not the filesystem modules? 
Feb 13 21:19:18 <kdean06> Fair enough. :)
Feb 13 21:19:30 <mmontour> Yes, you get errors just trying to read the partition table
Feb 13 21:19:44 <kdean06> Any idea why?
Feb 13 21:20:07 <kdean06> Or... More to the point, any solution in the foreseable future?
Feb 13 21:20:26 <mmontour> No idea, but there's a bug filed (#1223)
Feb 13 21:21:57 <balrog-kun> someone figured out that the first character of a write or read was ok in the block but the rest was garbage
Feb 13 21:22:44 <mmontour> 2.6.24 also renamed some paths in /sys (e.g. for the PMU controls), requiring userspace changes in stuff like the gsmd init script. gllin (GPS) will also be broken until they add a symlink for the old name back into /sys (as it hard-codes those paths)
Feb 13 21:23:19 <wurp2> Sounds as if I might be parked on an old version for a while
Feb 13 21:23:42 <anrp> clearly, the solution is XML
Feb 13 21:23:45 <anrp> !!
Feb 13 21:24:13 <balrog-kun> and ASP
Feb 13 21:24:16 <balrog-kun> .net
Feb 13 21:29:59 <zash> and why not add some AJAX on that
Feb 13 21:54:40 <br3n> mmontour, SD card for 2.6.24 has a patch (today from Andy Green see kernel list)
Feb 13 22:40:29 <bkruse> Can the public create an svn branch off openmoko?
Feb 13 22:40:46 <bkruse> I want to do some voip integration into dialer
Feb 13 22:54:46 <bkruse> Has anyone binded to both the mic and earpiece in a program?
Feb 13 22:54:51 <bkruse> I only seem to be able to bind to the earpiece, I cannot write to the mic output (default, default)
Feb 13 23:01:26 <wurp2> bkruse: Are you binding to the mic in a bt headset?
Feb 13 23:12:25 * adjaxio is away: gros dodo
Feb 14 02:37:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1229 has been created by yucheng82(AT)126.com
Feb 14 02:37:02 <cdbot2> * * make openmoko-devel-image ERROR
Feb 14 02:37:03 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1229
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Feb 14 02:59:57 2008