**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Feb 17 11:46:14 2008 Feb 17 12:52:32 lo ppl Feb 17 12:53:09 Hey anders_, Swedish? :P Feb 17 12:53:18 ye :D Feb 17 12:53:26 nice ^^ Feb 17 13:15:43 Bah, still can't get the devel image to build.. Feb 17 13:16:04 * SpeedEvil passes CM a sacrificial duck. Feb 17 13:17:17 Hehe Feb 17 13:18:00 I'll try ScaredyCat's latest in the mean time Feb 17 13:18:04 Oops, sorry, it's a sunday. Feb 17 13:18:09 * SpeedEvil passes CM a sacrificial gerbil. Feb 17 13:18:14 :P Feb 17 14:11:03 CM: what's the problem with the build? (and leave that duck alone!) Feb 17 16:03:42 *.se: swedish fork of the channel? Feb 17 17:50:26 freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r77 10/trunk/software/gsm0710muxd/ (ChangeLog data/Makefile.am): gsm0710muxd: fix directory for dbus system service file Feb 17 18:17:43 hi Feb 17 19:53:32 I'm planning to buy a used Neo1973. Can you tell me what's the status of the power management issue? I read about it on the mailing list. Is it a hardware problem or can we expect this to be resolved? Feb 17 19:56:02 some jumping to conclusions has been happening; I'm not an expert, but my impression is that the hardware may be suboptimal in some ways but should provide much improvement potential to the current situation. Feb 17 19:57:30 mjr: Thank you very much. Do you own a Neo. Can you give me an idea as to how much battery time do you get as of now? Feb 17 19:58:40 one-digit hours Feb 17 19:58:47 midrange one-digit Feb 17 20:02:59 Thanks I think I'll go for one if I can get it on ebay. Feb 17 20:03:32 zuch - why not just wait another month or so and get the gta02? Feb 17 20:05:38 ajbrun: Actually I've been really excited and wanting to buy from the first day but didn't have money to spare. I recently finished a project I was working on and now I don't want to wait. And there's no guarantee that it will be just a month and not more. Tricky decision though. Feb 17 20:06:01 up to you Feb 17 20:07:00 the community updates page says that they've made a few gta02's i think, and that they've not seena reason yet to hold them back so far Feb 17 20:07:05 zuch: the gta01 has hardware bugs.. Feb 17 20:07:15 but they do still have one or two issues still to resolve obviously Feb 17 20:07:44 i just don't see the point in spending so much on a phone when it's likley it's going to be out of date in the next 1-3 momths Feb 17 20:08:07 and then having to spend the same amount then to buy the next model Feb 17 20:09:54 but...but... new! shiny! Feb 17 20:09:59 ajbrun: Makes sense but I was hoping that I'll get a Neo for a lot less money now that GTA02 is coming and use it as an experimental device and even GTA02 will take time to mature as a consumer phone. So I could get a device for less and contribute with development and buy the next one when it's mature. Feb 17 20:10:12 i guess Feb 17 20:10:22 depends how much they're going for on ebay i suppose Feb 17 20:10:50 although i'd guess that since there are so little of them about and so many people wanting one, it won't be much less than full price Feb 17 20:10:53 ajbrun: exactly! I will check and then take a decision Feb 17 20:11:06 oh ok Feb 17 20:11:07 i'd be interested to know how much they are though Feb 17 21:12:49 are there any everday users of gta01 listening? interested at qtopias total standby time Feb 17 21:13:09 dunno about qtopia Feb 17 21:13:32 shouldn't be much different from openmoko though Feb 17 21:14:05 which is 5 ajbrun, zuch, anrp: i still hope that openmoko doesn't forget these early adopters like us. after all, with an open hardware, there should not be so many mandatory hardware upgrades (except you need new hw features like wlan or the old hardware is really not powerful enough in any way to support running the newest applications). So I hope openmoko invests enough efforts to get the 01 users running and have them as happy (minus the new features an Feb 17 21:14:52 d the unavoidable hw bugs) as the 02 ones. This is not a meant as a threat at all, but I think I'm much more inclined to buy a gta02 or recommend a mokophone to friends if my 01 is already running well. and I think openmoko phones need a lot of word-of-mouth advertising. Feb 17 21:24:23 if I had more free time, i would keep my 01, but thinking of selling it now Feb 17 21:24:42 a little bit more power user than a developer Feb 17 21:50:00 can I get qtopia images elsewhere than qtopia.net? Feb 17 21:50:11 seems a little unresponsive Feb 17 21:52:21 http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/?M=D Feb 17 22:37:07 adduser: unrecognized option `--system' Feb 17 22:37:07 BusyBox v1.9.1 (2008-02-14 18:11:52 GMT) multi-call binary Feb 17 22:37:07 Usage: adduser [OPTIONS] user_name Feb 17 22:37:07 postinst script returned status 1 Feb 17 22:37:42 saw some of that during bootup, now with ipkg upgrade Feb 17 22:37:51 busybox broken? Feb 18 00:23:50 hey, my gta01 is waking up from a call, although it is not supposed to do that yet?? (the modem is not working, though) Feb 18 00:24:22 ... I mean not working properly after the wakeup (wake up, but no indication of incoming call) Feb 18 00:30:58 RB2: hey d00d Feb 18 00:30:59 yes, it does that Feb 18 00:31:16 unfortunately, the serial port is confused enough for it not to work at all Feb 18 00:31:18 Hey niklauz Feb 18 00:31:28 It's been doing that since novemner Feb 18 00:31:32 anyone know if there has been a chance on the freerunner's forecast? Feb 18 00:32:20 RB2: there are usually a few people here that are using the dev version as their primary phone Feb 18 00:32:58 niklauz, nice. I can't wait to get my hands on one. :D Feb 18 00:33:30 word :-) Feb 18 00:59:05 SpeedEvil: and when removing the kernel console option "console=ttySAC0,115200" from the kernel argument list, it even wakes up with the modem working. whoa! I can put my phone into standby now! GREAT! Feb 18 00:59:20 * toxx_ makes a new boot entry :) Feb 18 01:06:08 this was the issue which kept me from considering my neo as a real phone. but now as it wakes up from sleep and even rings... amazing! :-) Feb 18 01:06:28 toxx_, it's the small things. ;) Feb 18 01:06:50 yes, definitively. Feb 18 01:07:01 toxx_: How are you suspending, does the dim, then lock work now? Feb 18 01:07:20 i mean, the standby time is certainly greater than neo running 100%, isn't it? Feb 18 01:07:29 wurp2|away: yes it does Feb 18 01:07:49 Wow. Feb 18 01:07:51 wurp2: "lock phone" also works Feb 18 01:08:05 Any idea of the battery life while suspended? Feb 18 01:08:11 not yet... :-) Feb 18 01:08:19 that's great news, thanks! Feb 18 01:08:20 i hope it lasts a whole day, that'd be enough for me Feb 18 01:08:39 Coming from one of those crazy people who uses the 01 as their primary phone :-) Feb 18 01:08:47 hehe Feb 18 01:08:48 well, it's OK for me now Feb 18 01:09:07 but I could spend less embarrassing time begging usb ports from ppl when I visit ;-) Feb 18 01:09:12 my t610 broke down completely 1,2? weeks ago, so I depend fully on my neo. Feb 18 01:09:35 i read about the console-kernel-modem interference somewhere in the qtopia wiki entries Feb 18 01:10:01 apparently, removing thjs console option leaves the modem intact Feb 18 01:10:14 what are the side effects of removing the kernel console argument? Feb 18 01:10:22 (no stress testing yet, though - it did that just two times :) Feb 18 01:10:28 heh Feb 18 01:10:28 Does the OpenMoko software have an audio player? :D Feb 18 01:10:34 Sonicadvance1: yep Feb 18 01:10:35 i suspect none, except you're using it for debugging? Feb 18 01:10:38 fantastic Feb 18 01:10:49 I am not crazy about it Feb 18 01:10:55 except the gesture interface Feb 18 01:11:23 I love portable devices I can program for/on Feb 18 01:11:28 well, gotta get back to the family Feb 18 01:11:49 Sonicadvance1: me too. I've written a fair amount of python code both for and on my neo Feb 18 01:12:08 wurp2|away: *on* your neo? Feb 18 01:12:17 I program in C, don't really care for python Feb 18 01:27:36 wurp2|away: the only side effect from removing that from the kernel argument list is that you lose the serial console. Which you will only want to use when you have the debug board, but if you have the debug board you can simply drop into the uboot console and enable the serial console again... Feb 18 01:28:04 wurp2|away: I think GTA02 moved the serial console to the third serial port to stop these mixups :D Feb 18 01:28:55 Sonicadvance1, I wish I knew C. Feb 18 01:29:30 RB2, Eh, it's easy to learn, trying to figure out how every library works that you are using is a pain ;) Feb 18 01:29:38 moving the serial console wasn't enough to get my Neo stable. needed an adapted kernel (courtesy of mwester). Feb 18 01:30:12 but that stuff should be in normal images for a while, I think... Feb 18 01:30:13 Sonicadvance1, ;) I've been looking into online tutorials, but haven't had the chance to dive in Feb 18 01:31:05 RB2, It's easy enough to dive, you just need to learn how to swim ;) Feb 18 01:35:30 ohh Feb 18 01:35:33 i want to swim with you! Feb 18 01:35:37 * wobblywu takes off clothes Feb 18 01:35:40 let's go! Feb 18 01:35:50 ahven: Busybox issue should be fixed in the latest unstable, if I read the commit logs correctly Feb 18 01:36:56 Sonicadvance1, do you recommend any specific reference material or books? Feb 18 01:40:01 lol Feb 18 01:40:28 I read two books to get me started... Can't remember what they were though. I know they both were Yellow! :D Feb 18 01:40:48 Sonicadvance1, lol.. Feb 18 01:40:56 Did they have caution tape on the dront? Feb 18 01:40:57 :-P Feb 18 01:41:02 err front Feb 18 01:41:23 RB2, I do have some books downloaded that I read as well :P Feb 18 01:42:19 I also read a ton of tutorials online, looking at other people's code to see how it worked Feb 18 01:42:30 I found a bunch of online resources, I'm a big tutorial junkie.. Feb 18 01:42:36 ahh, ok ;) Feb 18 01:42:53 Just thought you might have a precious reference book that never leaves your clutches. :D Feb 18 01:43:44 RB2, I have all the basics committed to memory, so I usually use online resources for the libraries I'm using Feb 18 01:43:59 like gstreamer, I don't think they have a book on it ;) Feb 18 01:44:43 That's always the pain. Feb 18 01:45:16 eh, the documentation and examples are good enough to make a half way decent guess of how it works xD Feb 18 01:45:31 ha, found my first C++ book I bought Feb 18 01:45:45 Beginning C++ Through Game Programming, http://www.gohastings.com/catalog/item/item.asp?prodid=235352927 Feb 18 01:46:27 Was that any good? Feb 18 01:46:30 That reminds me, I found a gaming library I was interested in for fun, so I attempted to learn C++ and the gaming library (and all the API docs for the library weren't up to date) Feb 18 01:46:39 That was no fun Feb 18 01:47:02 RB2: ClanLib, perhaps? :) Feb 18 01:47:55 Tronic, It was pretty fun. taught me everything I needed Feb 18 01:48:19 Though it was all command line and windows specific D: Feb 18 01:48:53 Did it cover OpenGL or Direct3D? Feb 18 01:49:26 Tronic, I'm trying to find the bookmark for it. :) Feb 18 01:49:28 Nah, the final project was blackjack in command line. Feb 18 01:49:29 It was OpenGL Feb 18 01:49:42 sry, you weren't talking to me hehe Feb 18 01:50:11 I bought a book called, 3D game engine Programming later on. But It is all DX9 Feb 18 01:50:14 Sonicadvance1: Heh. I guess the name promised a bit too much then :P Feb 18 01:50:19 hehe Feb 18 01:50:31 OpenGL + SDL ftw Feb 18 01:50:54 OpenGL + GLSL ftw, dunno of SDL. Feb 18 01:51:06 SDL image loading functions are not threadsafe, etc. Feb 18 01:51:14 eh Feb 18 01:51:28 Probably better to use some modern (preferrably C++) library instead. Feb 18 01:51:41 Probably, but SDL is very easy to use Feb 18 01:51:55 A modern C++ library would be even easier. Feb 18 01:53:09 I currently work on a game (Ultrastar NG, a Singstar clone) that uses SDL, but we are considering alternatives such as ImageMagick. Feb 18 01:53:11 C++'s STL is annoying Feb 18 01:53:25 This bugs me, I went through this last time I went searching for it and I purposely bookmarked it. Feb 18 01:53:34 lol Feb 18 01:53:36 There's no C++'s STL, just the standard library. Feb 18 01:53:56 But I think you use that term to refer to containers and possibly also algorithms and iterators. Feb 18 01:54:23 However, I bet that you still like to use std::string instead of new char[...] etc? Feb 18 01:54:54 I love my char arrays Feb 18 01:54:59 * Sonicadvance1 hugs them Feb 18 01:55:00 Uh. Feb 18 01:55:23 char *yourface = (char*)malloc(512); Feb 18 01:55:24 :D Feb 18 01:55:59 * Tronic never uses new[] or delete[], almost never uses delete, and doesn't use new very often either. Feb 18 01:56:18 free(yourface); Feb 18 01:57:17 Sonicadvance1: An exception was thrown before you reached the free(yourface) line. You leak memory. Bummers. Feb 18 01:57:25 hehe Feb 18 01:57:41 oh well. That's someone else's problem now >.> Feb 18 01:58:13 lol Feb 18 01:59:29 Which somehow reminds me to download the latest firefox o.O Feb 18 02:04:50 Sonicadvance1: you mentioned python on the OM, or was that someone else? Feb 18 02:06:13 niklauz, I was saying how I don't like python and that I'm glad there is an audio player on the OM Feb 18 02:07:11 There's everything on OM. You name it, if it isn't in the feeds, it's because it's already in the flash! (sigh... people think they have a 120GB hard drive on the thing!) Feb 18 02:07:37 Sonicadvance1: d'oh! Feb 18 02:12:38 i think it was wurp2 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Feb 18 02:59:57 2008