**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Mar 06 12:37:35 2008 Mar 06 12:41:58 nslu2-log: you should be working again now Mar 06 13:32:33 mwester-trip: you lied Mar 06 13:32:49 er... long lag? Mar 06 13:33:11 no, in #oe ... just now... Mar 06 13:33:16 you're here still ;) Mar 06 13:33:24 :D Mar 06 13:34:30 I'm finding this business trip is appropriately timed; I am unable to work on the OM build issues, and it looks like you'll have them all worked out by the time I return. Mar 06 13:34:53 hehehe Mar 06 13:35:36 * XorA waves his hand jedi stylee, there are no build issues Mar 06 13:36:03 Right-o. And America is *not* entering a recession. Mar 06 13:37:33 NOTE: package openmoko-devel-image-1.0: completed Mar 06 13:37:34 see Mar 06 13:37:56 Does it actually have any dependencies left in it, though? :) Mar 06 13:38:36 NOTE: package openmoko-devel-image-1.0: completely screwed up. Mar 06 13:38:59 (although I shall not miss the feed-reader et al in any way) Mar 06 13:39:11 does anyone know the current status of the internal review of the FreeRunner?? Mar 06 13:40:01 jamesbew: The best source of data that might be useful for speculation would be on the devel and kernel mailing lists; check the archives for those on openmoko.org Mar 06 13:40:53 so there isn't any public output from the project then Mar 06 13:43:34 OM is careful not to make statements that they may regret regarding predicted dates. Mar 06 13:44:06 The "official" word is not yet availalble (or it's more like the official answe is "It will ship when it's ready" IIRC). Mar 06 13:44:44 fecking gcc block Mar 06 13:44:45 s Mar 06 13:46:31 In a nutshell, they are currently evaluating a hardware version to see if the PCB can be used (there will be component-type changes required). I don't know what the criteria is for determining when the number of little problems exceeds the magic threshold that says another PCB spin needs to be made, but the sense one gets is that they very much wish to avoid that. The topic (above) gives... Mar 06 13:46:33 ...the date estimated by the community should the current PCB prove to be ok. Mar 06 13:49:21 hm, my gta02 has a imsi of 000000000000000 ...is that 'normal'? Mar 06 14:01:03 emdete: well its pretty unique for an IMSI :-) Mar 06 14:01:14 emdete: but IMSI has nothing to do with the phone Mar 06 14:10:12 emdete: you need to send it to me so I an allocate / burn one ono it for you :P Mar 06 14:11:23 XorA: so it should work with that IMSI? Mar 06 14:11:33 emdete: IMSI comes from the SIM Mar 06 14:11:38 emdete: out of phone control Mar 06 14:12:00 emdete: I wouldnt be surprised though if GTA02 IMEI was all zeros Mar 06 14:12:24 ah, sry, mistaken that, yes, the imei Mar 06 14:12:39 e like equipment, right? :D Mar 06 14:12:58 yeah all zeros will work as long as your carrier doesnt ban non unique IMEI numbers (few do) Mar 06 14:13:20 emdete: yes (E)quipment Mar 06 14:13:20 i can register but can't do a call nor receive one Mar 06 14:13:33 and s for subscriber. .... Mar 06 14:13:40 emdete: whats the command to recover IMEI? Mar 06 14:14:34 +CGSN most often... Mar 06 14:15:29 can we send that with gsmtool? Mar 06 14:15:44 XorA: i don't know gsmtool Mar 06 14:15:44 or whatever that program is called, we dont all have your cool working gsmd :-) Mar 06 14:16:02 XorA: just use cu or ...whatever Mar 06 14:34:37 has a new gllin been built yet ? Mar 06 14:34:57 ScaredyCat: i thought there are symlinks in sysfs now Mar 06 14:35:10 ScaredyCat: or which 'new' do you mean ;) Mar 06 14:35:26 oh, ok.. I haven't been able to build of late so I haven;t tested that... Mar 06 14:35:38 new - to fix that problem :) Mar 06 14:36:12 the sysfs-problem? i think the original package has more issues than than ;) Mar 06 14:37:46 :) Mar 06 15:38:50 cheeses Mar 06 15:44:30 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4175 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/src/phone-kit/moko-network.c: openmoko-dialer2: modify Registering for Network name (Erin Yueh) Mar 06 15:46:52 openmoko: 03olv * r4176 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (14 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed) Mar 06 15:46:52 openmoko: 2008-03-06 Chia-I Wu Mar 06 15:46:52 openmoko: Preliminary support for phonebook. Sync phonebook from the SIM card Mar 06 15:46:52 openmoko: on start up. This is not a "perfect" solution. See bug #1238. Mar 06 15:46:52 openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-listener.c, src/phone-kit/moko-listener.h Mar 06 15:46:56 openmoko: (moko_listener_on_read_phonebook): New function to listen to phonebook Mar 06 15:46:58 openmoko: messages. Mar 06 16:09:01 * * OM Bug 1253 has been created by will(AT)openmoko.com Mar 06 16:09:02 * * Mysterious green lines on screen Mar 06 16:09:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1253 Mar 06 16:21:01 * * OM Bug 1254 has been created by will(AT)openmoko.com Mar 06 16:21:02 * * Flickering on screen Mar 06 16:21:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1254 Mar 06 17:09:33 hi all Mar 06 17:31:26 hello zdanek! Mar 06 17:57:13 hallo Mar 06 18:27:29 Is anyone using the build from 3/4 or around then? Mar 06 18:27:48 'cause I just tried to play mp3s for the first time since my update, and every one I've tried gives a gstreamer error Mar 06 18:27:54 All of them worked before I updated Mar 06 18:42:53 I'm trying to build a new image from scratch now, just removed my tmp dir Mar 06 18:56:38 wurp2, The 03 March 2008 build? Yes. :) Mar 06 18:56:50 wurp2, I had no sound at all. Mar 06 19:01:03 I've not done any reviews (no time) but I've played with almost all of the images. Mar 06 19:01:43 My father-in-law (59, relatively fit, exercises daily) ended up with an unexpected triple bypass. O_O Mar 06 19:02:54 yikes Mar 06 19:05:19 * SpeedEvil ponders the Monty Python 'Never expect the cardiac surgeons!' sketch. Mar 06 19:43:15 kdean06: Ouch, I'm very sorry to hear that! Mar 06 19:43:25 Now that you mention it, my phone doesn't ring; it just vibrates Mar 06 19:43:33 I just thought I was answering it before the ring started Mar 06 19:43:53 The problem is, calling seems very stable in the 3/4 image, so I'm reluctant to switch :-) Mar 06 19:44:12 wurp2, Most stable image I've used to date for calls is 28 Feb 2008. Mar 06 19:44:23 Though I really need to report all the bugs I've found. :) Mar 06 19:44:36 wurp2, Wanna kill your ability to make calls? Add a number. :P Mar 06 19:45:11 7031234567 would be a phone number. doing 70312345678 causes it to crap itself. :) Mar 06 19:50:46 Add a number? Mar 06 19:50:49 To the contact list? Mar 06 19:51:09 I really probably don't want to kill my ability to make calls ;-) Mar 06 19:54:44 kdean06: Oh, and sound certainly works in the 3/4 image for calls, at least Mar 06 19:54:55 I mean, for the conversation part of the calls Mar 06 19:55:26 I think that bypasses pulseaudio (among other things) and I know there was a recent pulseaudio patch, so maybe that's the issue Mar 06 19:56:40 yeah call audio doesn't (normally) entre the whole soc Mar 06 20:36:18 http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=ls4F_QXmMso Mar 06 20:42:10 NineX, that's just awesome Mar 06 20:48:23 dcordes: :> Mar 06 22:35:08 dcordes: Uh, what the hell made that awesome? Mar 06 22:35:17 Does anyone have a workaround for this build failure? ERROR: QA Issue: WebKitGtk.pc failed sanity test (tmpdir) in path /myth/OpenMoko4/build/tmp/staging/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/usr/lib/pkgconfig Mar 06 22:48:27 wurp2, I tried to be sarcastic Mar 06 22:52:36 freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r91 10/trunk/ (specifications/ standards/): rename standards to specifications, we're not a standards body! Mar 06 23:12:40 Is there anyone online who has experience writing applications code which calls the gpsd service library libgps (or libgpsd) ? Mar 06 23:13:07 (under openmoko, of course) Mar 06 23:30:22 whats the application rtm is there a reason not to interface to it higher up? Mar 06 23:33:03 Well, I may just not understand what I should be doing. I've written a little application that displays the night sky (constellations, etc). I want it to be able to use the GPS receiver to figure out where it is, and display the appropriate sky. My guess is that the right way to do that is to call the gpsd applications interface in the library, but I may be wrong. For example, if gpsd writes the current position under /proc Mar 06 23:33:03 or somewhere else, I could just read it that way. I don't know what the options are. Mar 06 23:33:40 rtm_: xephem? Mar 06 23:33:49 rtm_: oh - never mind - misread Mar 06 23:34:06 rtm u can simply read the position from gpsd over tcp connection Mar 06 23:34:11 Right now I parse the NMEA stream myself, which I know for sure is stupid. Mar 06 23:34:11 rtm_: d-bus? Mar 06 23:34:51 rtm it is a very simple text protocol u just connect on the correct port and send command Mar 06 23:35:03 Is the protocol for requesting the information via TCP described somewhere? Mar 06 23:35:19 rtm yeh shud be on gpsd homepage Mar 06 23:35:38 OK, zedstar, thaks very much. Mar 06 23:35:51 (thanks very much) Mar 06 23:36:03 rtm but it is something simple like u send p/n to get position Mar 06 23:36:54 rtm u can of course just test it by telneting to gpsd and entering the commands in Mar 06 23:38:02 now is th opportunity for you to tell me your opinion: tomorrow i'll get my a780 Mar 06 23:38:11 dcordes: Oh, cool. It just really gets under my skin to see people finding amusement in watching someone behaving like an evil ass to someone else Mar 06 23:40:15 what is the price for an openmoko? lets say... developer edition? not to compare with the crappy moto, but just for interest? Mar 06 23:41:07 300 EURO with wifi eh? Mar 06 23:41:24 broedje, openmoko is just the system that is designed to run on neo1973 (the phone) Mar 06 23:41:59 And the neo1973s are sold out, I think. Mar 06 23:42:26 yaaa, gnaawudimean Mar 06 23:42:50 broedje: $300 US Mar 06 23:43:06 Shouldn't be 300 euro, unless you get a lot of VAT Mar 06 23:45:05 You can bu them from other owners on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Buying_Interest_List Mar 06 23:45:14 s/bu /buy / Mar 06 23:45:14 wurp2 meant: You can buy them from other owners on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Buying_Interest_List Mar 06 23:46:41 well, who is the guy on ebay selling for 300 euro... Mar 06 23:46:50 argh i need to sell that moto, repaired, and get one neo Mar 06 23:46:52 its a good price, as a HC dev, may i get one crushed piece with working gsm for less, has someone one left? say 100 Euro? Mar 06 23:46:55 or some more.. Mar 06 23:46:59 pleeeeaaaaaaseeeeee ;;-PP Mar 06 23:47:01 cool Mar 06 23:47:18 You can get a 1973 on the page i sent you for less than 300 eu, I'm sure Mar 06 23:48:25 broedje: Try posting on the device-owner list, looking for one with a broken screen or whatever Mar 06 23:49:44 grml Mar 06 23:50:07 i m not THAT hc Mar 06 23:50:37 to confess im not hc at all, i just discovered the deskless desktop Mar 06 23:51:00 ACTION floattt Mar 06 23:51:58 huh do i need to register there? Mar 06 23:52:42 links2 says : there is currently no text on this page Mar 07 00:29:34 Is there anyone online who has gotten tangoGPS to work on their neo1973? Mar 07 01:01:13 Is there anyone online who has gotten tangoGPS to work on their neo1973? Mar 07 01:14:40 openmoko: 03andrew * r4177 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (hw/neo1973.c openmoko/env): Mar 07 01:14:40 openmoko: Use daily u-boot snapshots now that they're available. Mar 07 01:14:40 openmoko: Move kernel load site down a bit. Mar 07 01:14:40 openmoko: Disable u-boot env pre-load explicitely. Mar 07 04:04:00 * * OM Bug 1255 has been created by will(AT)openmoko.com Mar 07 04:04:01 * * No indication of battery charging when power is off Mar 07 04:04:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1255 Mar 07 04:05:01 * * OM Bug 1256 has been created by will(AT)openmoko.com Mar 07 04:05:02 * * Boot time too slow Mar 07 04:05:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1256 Mar 07 04:08:41 mew Mar 07 04:08:58 Hi. Mar 07 04:09:30 ho Mar 07 04:11:30 he Mar 07 04:46:01 * * OM Bug 1257 has been created by will(AT)openmoko.com Mar 07 04:46:02 * * 2 progress wheels Mar 07 04:46:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1257 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Mar 07 06:24:50 2008 Mar 07 06:50:03 good morning Mar 07 07:30:49 list Mar 07 07:39:53 morning Mar 07 07:51:04 evening Mar 07 07:59:15 pants Mar 07 08:02:25 pants? Mar 07 08:05:09 i have pants. do you? Mar 07 08:07:16 no, I do not posess anything (not even pride) :) Mar 07 08:07:28 hhhhHh Mar 07 08:07:29 BTW Mar 07 08:07:34 FOUND OUT WHY SOME DIALOGS ARE BIZARRE Mar 07 08:07:36 oops Mar 07 08:07:36 caps Mar 07 08:07:43 things are behavng much better here Mar 07 08:07:45 cool Mar 07 08:08:02 * zecke get's some e... Mar 07 08:08:30 no0t in cvs/svn yet Mar 07 08:08:32 wait wait Mar 07 08:08:41 what things raster? :) Mar 07 08:08:54 well "new contact" dialog for address book Mar 07 08:08:57 its not perfect Mar 07 08:08:59 but better Mar 07 08:09:17 reason it was bad was it showed then later resized itself Mar 07 08:09:33 and illume had already decided to center it given its old size Mar 07 08:09:40 then the size came, but illume did nothing Mar 07 08:10:19 i want to get this multi-netmtype thing fixed Mar 07 08:11:24 nice Mar 07 08:11:27 then fetch if its a q* client or menu window or not and flag things in e core for that Mar 07 08:11:33 and then i can handle auto show/.hide Mar 07 08:11:40 i'll chuck it into svn +cvs then Mar 07 08:12:41 I will do some maths now, wasn't too successfull in doing it the other three days... Mar 07 08:13:05 I wonder how a compile error with *Freetype* and -no-freetype as configure option relate to each other, and how much this is C++ related :) Mar 07 08:33:18 good morning Mar 07 08:33:22 mornin' Mar 07 08:36:29 morning Mar 07 08:40:16 raster: are there also color-issues with evas-xrender on gta02? i have strange effect on gradients Mar 07 08:41:34 emdete: ooh gradients in evas are broken Mar 07 08:41:35 dont use them Mar 07 08:41:51 i use a png that has one Mar 07 08:41:59 oh then its just an image Mar 07 08:42:04 and it should "just work" Mar 07 08:42:12 16bit engine? Mar 07 08:42:16 or software_x11 ? Mar 07 08:42:23 software_x11 works fine Mar 07 08:42:26 nb - did u check illume? i put up .bb files i use to build efl Mar 07 08:42:38 hmm software_16 does not do perfect rendering Mar 07 08:43:34 look at the second button from left on the bottom: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/79f8206ce2f2f44fefe613cc9f272eff.png <- software Mar 07 08:43:38 XorA: hey, see the above message ;) Mar 07 08:43:54 xrender: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/21d9e352914b9c1087f95859956f8648.png Mar 07 08:44:46 raster: do you see the difference? Mar 07 08:44:47 zecke: heh oh well Mar 07 08:45:24 XorA: nothing c++ related there.. Mar 07 08:45:39 is purple intended? Mar 07 08:45:56 as such Mar 07 08:45:57 raster: yes, just checking Mar 07 08:46:01 your original image does have a gradient Mar 07 08:46:09 zecke: incomplete types is still C++ problem, and why is their system so fucked it tries to compile stuff its told not to? Mar 07 08:46:09 raster: my girlfriend loves it ;) Mar 07 08:46:18 the 16bpp engine is doing the best it can with 16bpp + alpha plane Mar 07 08:46:22 raster: yes, i mean the gray radient in the circle Mar 07 08:46:25 XorA: I'm compiling it right now, it would be cool if you could catch up from there again. like getting illume integrated, .xsession for qpe :) Mar 07 08:46:34 16bit engine has a significant color reduction from the 32bit software one Mar 07 08:46:39 WTF is illume? Mar 07 08:46:53 XorA: illume.projects.om.org Mar 07 08:46:54 XorA: u don't read your email :) Mar 07 08:46:59 there is no _16 used - it does not start, remember? Mar 07 08:47:15 raster: if its UI stuff I ignore it, no interest to me Mar 07 08:47:21 its softwarex11 (red) and xrender (purple). Mar 07 08:47:28 emdete: oooh Mar 07 08:47:30 xrender Mar 07 08:47:38 then thats xrender's problem Mar 07 08:47:50 its converting from argb32 to 16bpp with no dithering Mar 07 08:47:56 evas software does dithering Mar 07 08:48:12 offscreen buffers for xrender engine are 32bpp Mar 07 08:48:32 well as it stands right now in the xrender engine it asks for a 32bpp offscreen buffer to render (a pixmap/xrender picutre) Mar 07 08:48:35 draws everything to that Mar 07 08:48:40 then copes from that to the screen when done Mar 07 08:48:53 the copy if screen is 16bpp will imply a down-convert from 32 to 16bpp Mar 07 08:48:58 (well 24bpp to 16bpp) Mar 07 08:49:10 and xrender is doing it the simple way - just dropping colro resolution Mar 07 08:49:18 nothgin to be done there Mar 07 08:49:22 as thats xrender's software Mar 07 08:50:25 raster: okay.. so i drop xrender for now. ;) Mar 07 08:51:41 raster: what do you think, would it be possible to develop a c-lib with all glamo functions avaible for testing in a short time for someone with the manual? just a thin layer above without x11, evas, whatever? Mar 07 08:52:05 raster, nice video of your illume :) Mar 07 08:52:14 video? where? Mar 07 08:52:24 in the project webpage Mar 07 08:52:26 :) Mar 07 08:52:31 in a neo Mar 07 08:53:05 emdete: possible, but no one has the time for it Mar 07 08:53:53 to drive the glamo with no troubles u need to us ethe command rpocessor Mar 07 08:53:57 and that uses a command pipeline Mar 07 08:54:05 so u need to put operations on the pipeline Mar 07 08:54:19 and then u need to know how to put them teree and their format Mar 07 08:54:41 i defintiely don't have time to do it :( Mar 07 08:54:43 this could be a nice Google SoC :) Mar 07 08:54:47 and dodji is busy Mar 07 08:54:59 methril: if you get the docs Mar 07 08:55:06 morning *grabsmorecoffee* Mar 07 08:55:06 methril: we aren't going to due to NDA. Mar 07 08:55:20 basically u need to sign the nda Mar 07 08:55:33 and frankly we can only do that easily if u work for OM Mar 07 08:55:33 yes, i readed something about it in the mailing list Mar 07 08:55:40 raster: what does the nda say? Mar 07 08:55:48 and for a student to do work with something needing an NDA is simply not going to happen Mar 07 08:55:52 your soul is ours ? Mar 07 08:55:53 emdete: beats me Mar 07 08:56:00 raster: does it allow to release source? Mar 07 08:56:07 but i know i can't give out the docs Mar 07 08:56:09 it's a pitty Mar 07 08:56:13 but i can talk about the chip in my own words Mar 07 08:56:19 its featues and abilities Mar 07 08:56:29 and any code we do can be public (gpl, mit-x11, bsd - whatever) Mar 07 08:56:36 but you're going to make some public documents, aren't you? Mar 07 08:56:38 yes it allos source release Mar 07 08:56:41 allows Mar 07 08:56:47 methril: no we aren't Mar 07 08:56:48 no time Mar 07 08:56:53 oh :( Mar 07 08:57:14 well, at least allows you to release public code Mar 07 08:57:17 hehe some one could write a pdf viewer and put the glamo document into the regression test suite :) Mar 07 08:57:20 some NDA doen't allow it Mar 07 08:59:17 meht the glamo docs together are about 600 pages of specs Mar 07 08:59:34 methril: i am not going to sit down and write docs matching whats in them Mar 07 08:59:53 uf!! Mar 07 08:59:58 i dont think anyone here is willing to do that Mar 07 09:00:09 zecke: that reminds me Mar 07 09:00:11 i promised u docs Mar 07 09:00:15 neither do i, if i were in that possition Mar 07 09:00:46 raster: can anyone sign the nda and just start? Mar 07 09:01:09 emdete: u have to ask smedia Mar 07 09:01:11 its their nda Mar 07 09:03:18 emdete: i dont think its that simple Mar 07 09:03:43 emdete: even with a lib - u'd need to worry abotu suspend and resume Mar 07 09:03:45 and a lot more Mar 07 09:04:19 lcm control Mar 07 09:04:24 etc. etc. Mar 07 09:05:17 zecke: i'll give it to you on the weekend Mar 07 09:05:27 got ti tarred up here Mar 07 09:10:54 raster: suspend and resume of the device? no, i just want to get a feeling of the glamo and have a base for further work (i.e. on evas or whatever) Mar 07 09:11:26 emdete: that can't be done quickly :( Mar 07 09:11:38 i sent questions to smedia last friday Mar 07 09:11:42 i am still waiting on a reply Mar 07 09:11:53 om inc should immediatly start with that in my opinion... Mar 07 09:12:10 smedia should have code for that... Mar 07 09:12:21 they dont Mar 07 09:12:24 they only have wince drivers Mar 07 09:12:48 uf!! win drivers!! Mar 07 09:12:59 i did some drivers for windows Mar 07 09:13:04 it's a nightmare Mar 07 09:13:15 raster: closed source...? even for buyers of the glamo? Mar 07 09:13:31 yez Mar 07 09:13:36 we have the srces Mar 07 09:13:42 we are allowed to look at them Mar 07 09:13:49 and use them to clarify the docs Mar 07 09:14:39 'we' does mean whom? if i would know a oss developer capable of that crap would there be a way to let him work on that? Mar 07 09:14:48 Om Mar 07 09:15:03 openmoko Mar 07 09:15:19 yes, shure. would there be a way to let him work on that? Mar 07 09:15:27 i can find out - but it will take several weeks before i know anything Mar 07 09:15:38 who is him? Mar 07 09:15:39 at the current rate Mar 07 09:15:42 that's long :/ Mar 07 09:16:39 methril: 'him' is a random oss developer outside om. i have someone in mind i want to ask Mar 07 09:17:06 nice Mar 07 09:18:30 100% software accelerated 3D chip :> Mar 07 09:18:35 no pun intended Mar 07 09:18:36 :> Mar 07 09:24:33 hi Mar 07 09:24:47 is openmoko participating in gsoc this year? Mar 07 09:29:48 raster: nice video btw. you integrate gtk apps also, right? Mar 07 09:31:33 emdete: gtk, qtopia, any other x11 stuff Mar 07 09:31:54 so qtopia included? nice Mar 07 09:34:12 emdete: yes. we have ported qtopia to x11 - partially Mar 07 09:34:17 enough so core apps work Mar 07 09:34:55 funny Mar 07 09:35:07 whoever likes that setup... meybe it sells. Mar 07 09:35:22 sean is insisting on it Mar 07 09:35:24 so is wolfgang Mar 07 09:35:28 *shrug* Mar 07 09:35:33 i dont give a hoot personally Mar 07 09:35:41 one way or another Mar 07 09:35:45 if qt apps work - fine Mar 07 09:36:00 but its going to be one nasty mixed env Mar 07 09:36:04 ...if qt apps sell, fine. so we have the time to do our stuff Mar 07 09:36:20 raster: as any other mobile on the market, so why not? Mar 07 09:36:33 well considering nokia wants all their services on Qt Mar 07 09:36:51 raster, isn't there a framebuffer-based GUI available? Mar 07 09:37:09 Framebuffer is certainly not the slowness. Mar 07 09:37:10 mbuf: what do u mean? Mar 07 09:37:21 Or rather - Xfb isn't Mar 07 09:38:04 raster: is now a good time updating? Mar 07 09:38:09 raster, something like fbui? http://home.comcast.net/~fbui/index.html Mar 07 09:38:40 mbuf: u could do one. but it'd be bitchs-low on a gta02 without glamo accel Mar 07 09:38:57 and fbui isnt solving anything x doesnt already solve Mar 07 09:39:24 give framebuffer a rest Mar 07 09:40:26 there's enough work to go around without a manic need to reinvent the wheel Mar 07 09:40:28 direct fb access is a silly idea to try and shave off a tiny fraction here and there Mar 07 09:40:31 it doesnt scale Mar 07 09:40:44 it doesnt port forward or is able to use any hw accel if it turns up Mar 07 09:40:47 The main reason X seems slow is problems that hitting the framebuffer direct doesn't fix. Mar 07 09:40:52 it also makes development for the platform hard Mar 07 09:40:58 with x u can dev your apps withotu an emulator Mar 07 09:41:01 or anything special Mar 07 09:41:04 just a normal x window Mar 07 09:41:16 The total lack of accel basically, that means for a smooth scroll, you've got to move tens of megabytes/second Mar 07 09:41:29 On a teeny CPU Mar 07 09:41:41 SpeedEvil: yup. evas is suffering atm because of that as it doesn thave any accel paths in x it can use to do that (with alpha) Mar 07 09:41:47 its nto the cpu either Mar 07 09:41:51 its the video bus interconnect Mar 07 09:42:04 For GTA02 - not so much GTA01 Mar 07 09:42:04 the cpu is able to blast much more to video ram than it video ram can accept Mar 07 09:42:09 yeah Mar 07 09:42:10 gta02 Mar 07 09:42:16 gta01 is better in that regard Mar 07 09:42:18 much better Mar 07 09:42:59 For GTA02 things change the other way - framebuffer access is _so_ slow that you absolutely have to use all the acceleration you can. Mar 07 09:43:41 For 01, the framebuffer is the same speed as normal RAM. Mar 07 09:44:26 raster, i see Mar 07 09:44:43 yup Mar 07 09:46:11 i'm sorry to ask, I'm sure this came up before, but why is the interconnect with GPU so slow Mar 07 09:47:00 that is the best the hardware interconnect can do Mar 07 09:47:35 a combination of the glamo itself and the samsung Mar 07 09:47:41 and the hardware combination of the 2 Mar 07 09:47:41 it's interconected in the Memory bus or some other hardware net? Mar 07 09:48:12 its connected to the memory bus Mar 07 09:48:14 i was reading the Samsung documentation of the u, it's really god Mar 07 09:48:18 its a memory mapped device Mar 07 09:48:19 BUT Mar 07 09:48:35 then u can use DMA Mar 07 09:48:41 when u write the memory bus needs to wait for the glamo on its side of the interconnct to signal ok Mar 07 09:48:47 hthats what we are trying Mar 07 09:48:49 dma doesn tpseed it up Mar 07 09:48:56 but it means the cpu isnt hung writing Mar 07 09:48:57 BUT Mar 07 09:49:02 i think we may have a gotcha Mar 07 09:49:04 but doesn't slow it Mar 07 09:49:07 since it loks up the memory bus Mar 07 09:49:27 the bus is not smart enough to release memory while waiting ont he glamo for other memory ops Mar 07 09:49:32