**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Mar 07 10:59:56 2008 Mar 07 11:55:29 hi all Mar 07 13:06:44 freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r92 10/trunk/software/gsm0710muxd/src/gsm0710muxd.c: Mar 07 13:06:44 freesmartphone.org: logg level by command line Mar 07 13:06:44 freesmartphone.org: sysfs base dir for power mngmt by command line Mar 07 13:06:44 freesmartphone.org: dump frames when logg level is debug Mar 07 13:06:44 freesmartphone.org: virt. channel close fixes Mar 07 17:35:37 wurp2: ping Mar 07 17:49:50 ScaredyCat: pong Mar 07 18:08:59 hi Mar 07 18:35:11 moin Mar 07 18:36:52 so any news on powermanagement since three weeks ago? Mar 07 18:37:19 so the iphone sdk is out Mar 07 18:37:27 oh yes it is Mar 07 18:37:42 and dfake steve has a pretty good round up on who is dead now Mar 07 18:38:16 * hhf423 flashes the neo Mar 07 18:38:25 flashflashflash Mar 07 18:39:21 hhf423: Hehe Mar 07 18:39:38 (About fake steve jobs) Mar 07 18:39:52 pity it needs a mac to run it Mar 07 18:39:53 I found it very funny Mar 07 18:39:54 They interviewed him in OpenSeason Mar 07 18:40:03 did? have URL? Mar 07 18:40:08 The last episode from wednesday or so Mar 07 18:40:10 A sec Mar 07 18:40:26 brb, have to pick up the wife Mar 07 18:40:32 That was before the sdk, but it was still an interesting interview Mar 07 18:41:07 hhf423: http://www.theregister.co.uk/software/open_season/ Mar 07 18:41:19 Great podcast Mar 07 18:42:02 GTA02v6 is in preparation .... ready end of month.... http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware&curid=3259&diff=25857&oldid=25856 Mar 07 18:42:54 jamewill: Hey, cool! Thanks for the update! Mar 07 18:43:29 It looks as if it does include a PCB change Mar 07 18:43:54 what the heck is an 'IR resistor'? Mar 07 18:49:00 wurp2: Googling around seems to just say it's a regular resistor Mar 07 18:49:08 You can buy High IR resistors Mar 07 18:49:22 And some text said "The voltage drop (often called IR drop) across the resistor is..." Mar 07 18:50:16 Is it 'IR' or '1R' ? Mar 07 18:50:45 IR Mar 07 18:50:48 I = current Mar 07 18:50:49 V=IR Mar 07 18:50:51 R = resistance Mar 07 18:50:54 ohms law :) Mar 07 18:50:55 V = IR Mar 07 18:50:56 V=voltage Mar 07 18:51:38 Also, IR seems to mean Insulation Resistance Mar 07 18:51:42 "Capacitors used in dc blocking and coupling Mar 07 18:51:42 applications need to exhibit high IR to Mar 07 18:51:42 prevent dc leakage current from flowing. Mar 07 18:52:07 Oh I know ohms law. Just observing that 1R might be a designation for a 1 ohm resistor. Mar 07 18:57:27 In this case it probably stands for something else. Mar 07 18:57:37 Reading the Calypso datasheet may reveal what. Mar 07 18:59:50 CM, cool, thanks for doing my research for me :-) Mar 07 19:00:16 I really doubt that's it. Mar 07 19:00:24 Internal Regulator or something maybe. Mar 07 19:01:32 Why not a capacitor to prevent dc leakage? Mar 07 19:01:38 It was for deep sleep gsm.. Mar 07 19:29:11 hm, the new gps chip is documented in windows help file format: http://www.u-blox.com/customersupport/gps.g3/ANTARIS_Protocol_Specification(GPS.G3-X-03002).chm - anybody an idea how to crack that under oder os? Mar 07 19:32:54 there is a open source CHM reader for unix somewhere Mar 07 19:33:02 yep, chm Mar 07 19:33:09 xchm Mar 07 19:33:21 wiml: yes, the somewhere is what i'm fightin with ;) Mar 07 19:33:45 xchm sourceforge Mar 07 19:33:45 and a debian package... fine :D Mar 07 19:34:41 http://www.jedrea.com/chmlib/ ? Mar 07 19:35:30 http://www.speakeasy.org/~russotto/chm/ ? Mar 07 19:37:19 cool, works for that file. great. Mar 07 20:40:18 wurp2: nm Mar 07 20:40:27 found it in the end Mar 07 20:42:49 .. a bit late but : http://code.google.com/p/chm2pdf/ Mar 07 20:43:28 kchmviewer does a good job with it too Mar 07 20:45:58 ScaredyCat: k Mar 07 20:46:24 was just looking for your chage script... Mar 07 20:46:47 I've got myself a nice little battery pack that you charge from usb Mar 07 20:47:12 plugs ito the neo but it only seems to charge at slow rate.... Mar 07 20:47:26 it can output 700ma .. Mar 07 20:47:37 installed your script thing Mar 07 20:48:03 that thing with 4 presses is a little annoying btw Mar 07 20:55:42 * robtaylor is playing with gesture recognition and a wiimote... Mar 07 21:04:08 mickey_away: hey, i've been pondering on our discussion at fosdem, think I've got a pretty good idea of how to do 3d gesture recognition now ;) Mar 07 21:06:32 ScaredyCat: Well, I may make that configurable. But I would much rather be annoying than have someone decide to sue me because their neo bumped into something and started pulling 500 mA from a 100 mA supply Mar 07 21:07:15 yeah, I understand why you did it.. it's just annoying if you know you want to do it :) Mar 07 21:07:25 And it responds quickly enough that you can just tap the four corner w/o waiting for a visual response, so it's not as much a hindrance as it seems at first Mar 07 21:07:33 Yeah Mar 07 21:07:38 ah k Mar 07 21:07:53 It would be super easy for me to make that a number of how many confirmation presses you want, which you coudl set to 0 Mar 07 21:10:58 :) Mar 07 21:11:08 just 1 is enough Mar 07 21:11:11 for my Mar 07 21:11:18 s/my/me Mar 07 21:39:37 holy crap, does every openmoko owner hang out here? hehe Mar 07 21:43:55 we are legion Mar 07 22:00:55 no Mar 07 22:00:58 * Mousey doesn't have one Mar 07 22:01:00 * Mousey *cry* Mar 07 22:01:16 your not alone Mousey Mar 07 22:01:18 i used freerunners as pasties once.. but we don't talk about that Mar 07 22:01:32 Too late, you just did Mar 07 22:01:35 shh! Mar 07 22:02:53 * mjr craps freerunners but can't be arsed to catch them before they drop to the bowl Mar 07 22:03:05 but do you have pictures? Mar 07 22:03:07 ^_^ Mar 07 22:03:29 2 freerunners 1 cup! Mar 07 22:03:51 * Mousey gets out of the joke business, and goes back the the lurk business Mar 07 22:09:03 So why haven't you guys bought '01s? Mar 07 22:09:11 Holding out for the ever-elusive FreeRunner? Mar 07 22:10:17 oh I have Mar 07 22:10:46 Yeah, I meant Mousey and beefsalad Mar 07 22:11:39 01s? (hardcore newb, found out about openmoko a few hours ago) Mar 07 22:11:59 ! Mar 07 22:12:10 Sorry Mar 07 22:12:15 GTA01, the Neo1973 Mar 07 22:12:28 That would explain why you haven't bought one ;-) Mar 07 22:12:34 can i buy one? Mar 07 22:12:37 oh heh, I'm waiting to snipe the only one up for auction on ebay Mar 07 22:12:42 oh Mar 07 22:12:43 nm Mar 07 22:12:48 Only from other end users selling them, right now Mar 07 22:12:59 There is a list on the wiki of ppl who want to sell one Mar 07 22:13:01 any more eta than "a couple months"? Mar 07 22:13:15 I know KrisAbsinthe used to be wanting to sell one Mar 07 22:13:24 I'm not sure Mar 07 22:13:29 I thought it was due out this month or next Mar 07 22:13:34 can i use it as a phone? Mar 07 22:13:34 ^_^ Mar 07 22:13:46 But they just started a new sample run with a new circuit board Mar 07 22:13:57 Which I thought they weren't going to have to do Mar 07 22:14:00 I use mine as my phone Mar 07 22:14:13 the big hindrance is that you have only 4 hours of battery life right now Mar 07 22:14:35 wurp2 what is consuming that much? Mar 07 22:14:49 is it caused by software? Mar 07 22:14:59 The problem is that they don't really quiesce everything when it's not in use Mar 07 22:15:32 GSM has a low power mode, CPU can run at reduced frequency, in fact the whole thing could auto-suspend & wake on incoming call Mar 07 22:15:49 But the software is missing for all of that Mar 07 22:16:09 And you can't really say the hw is confirmed to work for it until you test it w/ software Mar 07 22:16:55 I think cesarb_ has made significant inroads for switching CPU speeds Mar 07 22:17:17 And rumor has it that suspend & wake on call worked, at least intermittently, for a while Mar 07 22:17:19 Well, they can't release the phone without those.. Mar 07 22:17:23 sure Mar 07 22:17:35 Well, they can't do a consumer release of a phone w/o those Mar 07 22:17:48 I think there's some pretty heavy work going on in-house for the FreeRunner in those respects Mar 07 22:18:08 I haven't checked the svn log Mar 07 22:18:23 I guess everything they work on the code should be on svn right? Mar 07 22:18:32 I don't follow the kernel mailing list, but I see some emails on other lists with people doing analysis on just how long it could last, and what pieces of the necessary software are working Mar 07 22:18:47 And monotone Mar 07 22:18:52 And some things may be in git Mar 07 22:22:45 I'm starting to wonder why Neonode hasn't been sued yet. I just pulled up their users guide and they keey calling their web browser "Internet Explorer" Mar 07 22:26:13 I dunno Mar 07 22:26:37 Microsoft has a habit of using names for their product that really shouldn't be independently trademark-able Mar 07 22:26:50 Windows, Word, Internet Explorer are really just descriptions Mar 07 22:27:09 Without being preceded by "Microsoft", e.g. "Microsoft Internet Explorer" Mar 07 22:27:45 makes sense Mar 07 22:28:01 this is brillant. There seems to be some working power management now. Mar 07 22:28:15 though I think 'internet explorer' would be more appropriate...if they arent using the words as a proper noun they should not be capitalized Mar 07 22:28:24 I just had the neo lie there for like two hours plus and the battery is not empty Mar 07 22:28:27 hhf423: On FreeRunner? Or '01? Mar 07 22:28:33 GTA01 Mar 07 22:28:47 whoah! Mar 07 22:28:53 Is that a packaged release? Mar 07 22:29:00 actually, the icon says the battery is still full Mar 07 22:29:09 I mean, my battery doesn't empty after 2 hours either Mar 07 22:29:17 But it sure isn't full after 2 hours ;-) Mar 07 22:29:19 its the latest celtune openmoko build Mar 07 22:29:33 Oh, I haven't heard of the celtune build Mar 07 22:29:44 Is that just someone pulling in some custom patches? Mar 07 22:29:46 I was watching telly, so did not do anything and it just slept ok. and woke up when i called it Mar 07 22:30:13 that's exciting. It would be nice to not pull my neo out of my pocket & plug it in every time I sit down :-) Mar 07 22:30:16 I believe thats celtune's build using the standard openmoko scripts etc. Mar 07 22:30:41 yes, that makes it actually useable Mar 07 22:30:56 and it can do calls, take calls, send SMS, receive SMS Mar 07 22:31:12 so this looks like it could actually be useable Mar 07 22:31:37 Well, mine is usable now Mar 07 22:31:56 how many hours? Mar 07 22:32:02 without recharge? Mar 07 22:32:37 4 Mar 07 22:32:38 :-) Mar 07 22:32:51 heh Mar 07 22:32:58 I'm almost always at a charger Mar 07 22:33:23 It went dead on me last week, but it was because I forgot to install my charge script after an update, so it wasn't fast charging at work Mar 07 22:33:27 my iphone lasts longer even if I surf all the time and play song snipplets from itunes Mar 07 22:33:47 Do you know what changes he made? Is it CPU speed, suspend & resume, or what? Mar 07 22:33:52 ah, yeah, the fast charge issue. Mar 07 22:34:16 actually, if I read his readme right then this should be vanilla openmoko Mar 07 22:34:49 see the readme here: http://celtune.morb-design.com/images/fic-gta01/?C=M;O=D Mar 07 22:35:01 1-news-warning-info Mar 07 22:35:17 Oh, I was looking at that Mar 07 22:35:24 nothing had leapt out at me yet Mar 07 22:35:28 for power mgmt Mar 07 22:35:29 I used the latest kernel he has there and the openmoko from feb 26 Mar 07 22:36:01 * ScaredyCat mutters Mar 07 22:36:09 you can always ask him when he is here the next time Mar 07 22:36:31 wurp2: you are doing your own build or what? Mar 07 22:37:15 hhf423: Nope Mar 07 22:37:38 I just run the standard openmoko releases, usually based on kdean06's reviews Mar 07 22:38:21 I don't think there's anything in 1-news-warning-info about power management Mar 07 22:39:04 hhf423: Are you in "Dim, then lock" mode? Mar 07 22:39:25 wurp2: yes Mar 07 22:39:32 Great googly moogly... 64 GB solid state HD for $1,200 Mar 07 22:40:13 outch, thats money Mar 07 22:40:18 OK, so what it boils down to is that suspend & resume are working for you Mar 07 22:40:33 Which they were before, at one point, or at least they were mostly working Mar 07 22:40:48 wurp2: well, what I can say after like 3 hours of looking at it Mar 07 22:45:11 hhf423: Can you tell me exactly which jffs2 and kernel you're using? I'd love to try them... Mar 07 22:45:43 kernel: http://celtune.morb-design.com/images/fic-gta01/uImage-2.6.24+svnr4144-r4110-r3-neo1973.bin Mar 07 22:46:08 and then: http://celtune.morb-design.com/images/fic-gta01/OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080226-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 Mar 07 22:46:33 hhf423: awesome, thanks! Mar 07 22:46:52 no worries Mar 07 22:47:52 I mean, I saw a few things in the change log wrt power management, but none of then stuck me as significant. Mar 07 22:48:07 but then again I am not a developer, really Mar 07 22:48:32 ym is insignificant Mar 07 22:51:56 I think you just ran across a version where the suspend & resume happen to work, as they did for a bit recently Mar 07 22:52:27 wurp2: so its broken again in later versions? Mar 07 22:52:33 But I assumed when that happened that it meant suspend & resume were more or less permanently happy (which was not the case) so I didn't run right out & download that version Mar 07 22:52:36 Yep Mar 07 22:52:39 would not surprise me Mar 07 22:52:50 Resume was working for me (not on an incoming call, but when I pressed power) Mar 07 22:52:56 then I updated & now resume doesn't work at all Mar 07 22:53:23 yeah, they do not seem to test for things like that Mar 07 22:54:03 wurp2: why did you not file a bug saying I was on X and worked and now I am on Y and it does no more? Mar 07 22:55:24 Because I would really want to get good info on exactly what release it started failing in Mar 07 22:55:37 and I don't really have time for that :-( Mar 07 22:55:47 I should have logged a bug on it anyway, with the info I did have Mar 07 22:56:04 yah Mar 07 22:57:34 wurp2: I saw my Konversation flashing red in the corner of the screen... Mar 07 22:57:58 hhf423: I don't think they test for anything, particularly. Mar 07 22:58:05 Just taking your name in vain Mar 07 22:58:12 re: cpufreq Mar 07 22:58:29 There's no test suites defined for anything, so if it boots, it's good :( Mar 07 22:58:34 mwester actually, I fear you are right Mar 07 22:59:49 wurp2: I've been too busy lately, unfortunately, so I had no progress for several weeks :( Mar 07 22:59:55 bummer Mar 07 22:59:58 * cesarb intends on catching up this weekend Mar 07 23:00:01 I understand busy, though Mar 07 23:00:40 And to make things worse my brother is playing Wesnoth next to me... Must resist temptation... :D Mar 07 23:04:37 there are people seeling their GTA01 via the wiki? or a list of owners who will sell once gta02 is there? Mar 07 23:04:50 yes Mar 07 23:05:40 URL? Mar 07 23:06:08 I dunno it offhand Mar 07 23:06:20 I actually do not know what I will do with my GTA01 once I can buy GTA02. Its a piece of history... :-) Mar 07 23:06:26 Search for 'selling' on the wiki, or dig through recent changes Mar 07 23:07:54 I'm giving mine to my wife, I think Mar 07 23:08:30 ah, second hand neo it is Mar 07 23:09:17 ok, off to bed. see ya all later Mar 07 23:30:09 wtf is moko Mar 07 23:30:11 mofo Mar 07 23:49:11 [01:22] wtf is moko Mar 07 23:49:11 [01:22] mofo Mar 07 23:49:12 ROFL Mar 07 23:49:16 tard Mar 08 00:02:49 lol Mar 08 00:03:24 ... I'm pondering porting Haiku to a Neo... Mar 08 00:03:43 I should first get one I suppose :) Mar 08 00:04:44 mmu_man: lol :) cool Mar 08 00:04:56 mmu_man: they're sold out, though :P Mar 08 00:05:05 but yeah, it would be cool to have haiku on a handheld, lol Mar 08 00:05:22 a bird told me 02 should ship soon ? Mar 08 00:05:39 * SpeedEvil pulls out a gun, and shoots the bird. Mar 08 00:06:28 heh Mar 08 00:06:35 americans. Mar 08 00:06:36 :P Mar 08 00:06:37 j/k Mar 08 00:07:21 I think we should mount a refund operation for WinCE on phones... Mar 08 00:07:26 heh Mar 08 00:07:29 good luck Mar 08 00:07:35 after all it's the same as on PCs, it can even be upgradable Mar 08 00:07:50 but they one would have to sue hw makers for not providing specs :^) Mar 08 00:09:26 (I mean, for us devs specs *are* the manual... my parent's 20 y/o tv set came with full schematics.. sigh) Mar 08 00:09:47 anyway, still along way to go for Haiku, but we have a start of BT support even :) Mar 08 00:10:05 and it seems the cpu in Neo has an mmu so it should be portable Mar 08 00:15:39 mmu_man: Haiki OS ? Mar 08 00:15:43 Haiku* Mar 08 00:15:54 http://haiku-os.org/ Mar 08 00:16:28 BeOS rewrite as Free Software Mar 08 00:16:38 yeah Mar 08 00:16:53 is anybody really using this ? Mar 08 00:17:06 no Mar 08 00:17:07 * mmu_man is Mar 08 00:17:08 it isn't really finished Mar 08 00:17:15 BeOS that is Mar 08 00:17:21 why not haiku? :P Mar 08 00:17:45 when it has more uptime than 4 days :) Mar 08 00:17:50 which is not that bad already Mar 08 00:17:59 still some bugs to fix first Mar 08 00:18:43 mmu_man: what special stuff can it perform ? Mar 08 00:18:49 god damn i want this updating to be done already Mar 08 00:19:08 http://www.haiku-os.org/about Mar 08 00:19:10 uriahheep: what update ? Mar 08 00:19:31 Quick question: Does OpenMoko's version of Matchbox have a compositor? Mar 08 00:19:43 CVirus: gentoo :P Mar 08 00:19:53 CVirus things like live queries, well done devfs (udev shrug) Mar 08 00:20:19 no bloody modprobe to find modules, they just find themselves (why should hte user do that ?) Mar 08 00:20:36 uriahheep: I finished a 700mb update a couple of days ago Mar 08 00:20:40 lol Mar 08 00:21:03 CVirus and a consistent no-useless-eyecandy gui Mar 08 00:21:08 doing gimp now, will be doing firefox later... Mar 08 00:21:11 which is still hard to find on linux :D Mar 08 00:21:31 agreed Mar 08 00:21:38 mmu_man: i use just a few components of xfce4, along with compiz-fusion ;) Mar 08 00:21:45 quite simplistic, while being pretty :P Mar 08 00:21:54 E17 ftw Mar 08 00:21:57 :-p Mar 08 00:21:58 rofl Mar 08 00:22:08 eternity^17 Mar 08 00:22:09 well I use linux too Mar 08 00:22:17 just it's not there yet for a desktop Mar 08 00:22:24 heh Mar 08 00:22:26 sure it is Mar 08 00:22:29 uriahheep: shut up .. troll :-p Mar 08 00:22:30 if you set it up right :P Mar 08 00:22:52 just don't be lazy and configure it properly once, and then you'll never have to again ;) Mar 08 00:23:19 (oh, and I ported XEmacs to BeOS, so I have all I can need :D) (and it looks even nicer than on Linux, AA and DnD) Mar 08 00:23:21 hrm, i wish i had weed for the bus ride home... Mar 08 00:23:52 http://revolf.free.fr/beos/shots/shot_xemacs_zeta_pretty_gonx.png Mar 08 00:24:29 :S Mar 08 00:24:52 how many bits are those window decorations in? Mar 08 00:24:52 hmm I hope not everyone here is hooked on drugs :p Mar 08 00:25:08 :P Mar 08 00:25:14 I rarely do drugs Mar 08 00:25:21 weed isn't a drug, if you don't think that beer is a drug :P Mar 08 00:25:32 beer isn't Mar 08 00:25:41 indeed Mar 08 00:25:43 anyways .. I want my freerunner now Mar 08 00:25:46 lol Mar 08 00:25:54 wait about 3 months Mar 08 00:26:21 3 months is too long, my current phone is already broken and needs a replacement... Mar 08 00:26:23 so, basically, the only thing that will be missing in the freerunner is a camera :) Mar 08 00:26:33 OasisGames: same Mar 08 00:26:37 heh Mar 08 00:26:43 i spent 40$ on an in-between phone Mar 08 00:27:03 my Nokia 6600 is no longer vibrating Mar 08 00:27:05 beer is Mar 08 00:27:08 lol Mar 08 00:27:11 just like coffeine Mar 08 00:27:15 yep Mar 08 00:27:24 Ooh, another quick question while I'm here: Technically, can't you just get a regular USB camera and a mini-USB-female-to-USB-female cable and port some webcam app to the ARMv4 processor? Theoretically? Mar 08 00:27:27 however, do you think that they should be illegal? Mar 08 00:27:46 OasisGames: yep Mar 08 00:27:49 CVirus: Interesting, my LG C2000 won't stop. Even when it's off. Mar 08 00:28:00 OasisGames yes, but keep in mind that usb webcam drivers for linux are not really uniform Mar 08 00:28:02 OasisGames: OR, you can find a USB phone camera Mar 08 00:28:06 or serial Mar 08 00:28:07 whatever Mar 08 00:28:10 OasisGames, if the cam will work with 100mA Mar 08 00:28:11 LOL Mar 08 00:28:18 there are as many drivers (actually more, 5 for mine) as there are different webcam Mar 08 00:28:19 and hooke it up to the freerunner's hardware yourself :) Mar 08 00:28:35 hmm does the Neo have a CF slot ? Mar 08 00:28:41 mmu_man, hell no Mar 08 00:28:49 you know how large those things are? Mar 08 00:28:52 Big. Mar 08 00:28:55 OasisGames: take the battery out :P Mar 08 00:29:06 lol Mar 08 00:29:17 mmu_man: it has a microSD i think Mar 08 00:29:18 uriahheep: Well, duh, of course, but then I can't use the phone ;) Mar 08 00:29:21 ah Mar 08 00:29:30 OasisGames: uh, why not? Mar 08 00:29:34 Because then it's off. Mar 08 00:29:36 Duh. Mar 08 00:29:38 oh Mar 08 00:29:38 should be possible to stick a CMOS censor on a uSD somehow Mar 08 00:29:39 yeah Mar 08 00:29:42 but still Mar 08 00:29:48 you were complaining about it not turning off.... Mar 08 00:30:10 mmu_man: lol :> Mar 08 00:30:22 It's only a temporary solution anyway. Second the battery hits the contacts it vibrates. It's a physical hardware problem, a piece of metal melted over a circuit or something... Mar 08 00:30:25 wow, man, wtf is with this xulrunner shit? Mar 08 00:30:42 is it really better than the current firefox? Mar 08 00:30:52 I still don't even know what xulrunner is. Mar 08 00:30:59 heh Mar 08 00:31:36 "XULRunner is a Mozilla runtime package that can be used to bootstrap XUL+XPCOM applications that are as rich as Firefox and Thunderbird." That was informative... Mar 08 00:32:43 OasisGames: it's what the next firefox will be running off of Mar 08 00:33:02 Clearly, otherwise I wouldn't have had to install all these dang packages... Mar 08 00:33:09 heh Mar 08 00:33:26 OasisGames it's just firefox outside firefox Mar 08 00:33:50 (so it can outgrow itself :p) Mar 08 00:33:53 AKA Prism? Mar 08 00:33:58 it's better than FF from what i hear though Mar 08 00:34:10 It's the same as FF3 only without the FF3. Mar 08 00:34:15 erm Mar 08 00:34:18 no Mar 08 00:34:38 xulrunner has been around and in development for a while Mar 08 00:34:49 now that it's ready enough, FF3 will use it Mar 08 00:34:54 and this has been planned for a whiile Mar 08 00:35:04 we are porting webkit to Haiku to get a native browser that doesn't double the size of the image Mar 08 00:35:10 (which is 100MB for now) Mar 08 00:35:11 heheh Mar 08 00:35:17 how big is webkit? Mar 08 00:35:43 don't know actually how big the bins are Mar 08 00:35:43 likely less than FF Mar 08 00:35:43 I hope Mar 08 00:35:43 heh Mar 08 00:35:43 probably Mar 08 00:35:47 I compiled FF from a bb recipie Mar 08 00:35:52 just look at a konqueror binary or something Mar 08 00:35:54 Neither would actually run on the neo Mar 08 00:36:09 (tehre were two) Mar 08 00:36:11 plus our FF port (which AmigaOS fans envy us) is not really finish so not well integrated Mar 08 00:36:35 Well, I'm off to go transform viewport outputs, enjoy your various phone-related discussions... Mar 08 00:36:43 heh Mar 08 00:37:06 hmm qemu can emulate arm now, anyone found a setup close to the neo ? Mar 08 00:37:17 if I want to start playing around Mar 08 00:37:20 there is one in the wiki Mar 08 00:37:31 also the mokomakefile Mar 08 00:37:53 ah right http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu Mar 08 00:38:18 nice Mar 08 00:38:21 i might try it out Mar 08 00:38:25 <3 kvm Mar 08 00:38:26 :) Mar 08 00:38:45 kvm doesn't really apply for arm, you know Mar 08 00:39:05 besides, qemu can display to VNC :) Mar 08 00:39:31