**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Mar 24 02:59:57 2008 Mar 24 03:36:07 http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3842376400.html Mar 24 07:04:28 good morning Mar 24 07:54:22 good morning :) Mar 24 07:59:15 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r11 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Removed old patches Mar 24 08:10:01 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r12 10mokomakefile/trunk/ (Makefile patches/bitbake-HEAD/ patches/openembedded-HEAD/): Updated Makefile on projects.openmoko.org to new repo Mar 24 08:11:28 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r13 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Updated check-generation to check bitbake tag Mar 24 08:11:42 morning Mar 24 08:16:12 are there any mokomakefile users here who wish to be a guinea pig? Mar 24 08:16:39 * josch hops up and down Mar 24 08:16:44 *me* *me* Mar 24 08:17:24 Me too, if I could get past the shitty pth build failure Mar 24 08:17:39 I'll be happy to try a clean restart if needed :) Mar 24 08:25:07 what are the changes of freerunner getting 3g in the future? Mar 24 08:28:09 josch, CM: wget http://svn.projects.openmoko.org/svnroot/mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile to overwrite your current Makefile Mar 24 08:28:42 then make update and follow the instructions to replace your patches and openembedded directories. No need to remove build/tmp. Mar 24 08:29:24 Ok Mar 24 08:29:24 As soon as I get two successes, I'll redirect the old location to the new location. Mar 24 08:29:43 (the location I've given you is the new official location after this is rolled out) Mar 24 08:29:55 rwhitby: It's just that I've been having some issue with pth that I just can't get around.. Might as well remove my whole temp :( Mar 24 08:30:12 CM: your choice. Mar 24 08:30:25 try this before you remove build/tmp Mar 24 08:30:59 I had to do the make setup-patches first Mar 24 08:32:39 yep, it asked you to do that correctly? Mar 24 08:33:09 Yes Mar 24 08:33:39 aye Mar 24 08:35:08 i rm'd everything it asked me to and now mtn does its stuff Mar 24 08:37:53 josch: let me know when it starts to bitbake ... Mar 24 08:37:56 CM: you too Mar 24 08:38:20 can take some time on my machine ^^ Mar 24 08:38:46 rm -rf * alone takes ages :) Mar 24 08:44:11 * cb22 wishes he could take part in the SoC :( Mar 24 08:45:07 * josch wishes he had the skillz to do so ^^ Mar 24 08:45:49 you see the email from sean on the mailing list? Mar 24 08:45:56 rwhitby: I get a lot of missing providers, and then it fails on pth like it has for almost a month Mar 24 08:46:29 the accepted participants will get a freerunner (engineering samples) Mar 24 08:47:43 CM: I get the following errors at the start: http://www.pastebin.ca/955024 Mar 24 08:47:52 (but that's not MokoMakefile's problem) Mar 24 08:48:10 I'll clean my tmp and try again from scratch Mar 24 08:48:23 I doubt it will fix those errors. Mar 24 08:48:34 *nod* Mar 24 08:48:39 I get the exact same error Mar 24 08:48:54 *still working* (tm) Mar 24 08:48:55 josch: btw, you solve your x problem? Mar 24 08:49:13 I really wonder why glibc isn't found Mar 24 08:49:24 sadly no but I think I completed the wiki page on how to get to my error :P Mar 24 08:49:26 That sounds quite bad, and it's the reason pth fails for me Mar 24 08:50:12 when using vesa i even get: Mar 24 08:50:14 xf86PciVideoInfo is not set Mar 24 08:50:14 Could not get primary PCI info Mar 24 08:50:22 but the neo has no pci hasnt it? Mar 24 08:50:46 i tried vesa and fbdev as driver and ran it with and without kernel fb support Mar 24 08:50:57 slowly I'm out of ideas what to do next Mar 24 08:52:14 I'm just uploading a clean debianchroot so people without debian'ish OS's can try verything out to Mar 24 09:02:36 hrm... it *may* be unwise to run a 34h mencoder job while mokomakefile'ing ^^ Mar 24 09:03:32 josch: get a quad core :) Mar 24 09:03:36 and some raid Mar 24 09:04:47 could it be that the internal clock is reset everytime I remove the battery?? Mar 24 09:20:16 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r178 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Updated to point to new org.openmoko.dev branch, and to move mokomakefile back to projects.openmoko.org Mar 24 09:22:16 new dev branch? Mar 24 09:22:52 ScaredyCat: XorA is sending the email now Mar 24 09:24:43 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian <= have fun trying debian out :-D Mar 24 09:27:22 Mail is off Mar 24 09:30:15 like a bucket of prawns in the sun? Mar 24 09:30:40 * ScaredyCat slaps XorA Mar 24 09:32:38 * XorA kicks ScaredyCat in the stones Mar 24 09:34:18 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r14 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Removed the update-stable and update-bleeding-edge targets, as they no longer make any sense. Mar 24 09:34:55 XorA: where is the om server holding the new branch ? Mar 24 09:35:11 ScaredyCat: same server Mar 24 09:35:24 oh... Mar 24 09:35:32 fairy muff Mar 24 09:35:51 it servers something like 8 branches Mar 24 09:36:20 ok, so have you built from the new branch yet? Mar 24 09:36:24 (a clean build) Mar 24 09:37:01 XorA: so what is the work-flow for someone in the community to fix a problem in the org.openmoko.dev branch? We used to be able to fix in org.openembedded.dev and it would appear on the OM server a week or less later. What do we do now? Mar 24 09:38:46 he's hiding.. or he's eaten some of those prawns Mar 24 09:39:20 rwhitby: the same Mar 24 09:39:46 rwhitby: I will propogate from org.openembedded.dev at least once a week Mar 24 09:40:17 XorA: do you build using sane-srcrevs.inc or moko-autorev.inc ? Mar 24 09:40:28 (for testing your propagation result) Mar 24 09:40:31 rwhitby: buildhost builds using moko-autorev.inc Mar 24 09:40:39 rwhitby: I normally use both Mar 24 09:40:55 yes, but what do you test your propagation with as the gate for promoting it to org.openmoko.dev? Mar 24 09:41:33 rwhitby: I do the merge, then check that it works Mar 24 09:41:36 test? test! Mar 24 09:41:37 hhahahahaa Mar 24 09:41:41 rwhitby: so I test the destination, not the source Mar 24 09:41:59 * ScaredyCat pokes XorA with a teasing stick Mar 24 09:42:00 rwhitby: but I only have bandwidth to test in OM and Angstrom Mar 24 09:42:11 XorA: yes, but do you guarantee that you test it with sane-srcrevs.inc, or do you just test moko-autorev.inc? Mar 24 09:42:32 rwhitby: I always test with sane-srcrevs.inc unless I fuck up Mar 24 09:42:45 XorA: cool, thanks. Mar 24 09:42:47 rwhitby: in fact my latest bug onlu happened with AUTOREV :-) Mar 24 09:43:38 so, you're going to port every change in oe dev ? Mar 24 09:43:42 on your own? Mar 24 09:49:24 ScaredyCat: mtn propogate is easy Mar 24 09:49:59 josch, CM: did the makefile ask you to remove the openembedded directory before or after it checked out the new patches directory? Mar 24 09:50:04 but wont you face the same problems you faced prior to the change... Mar 24 09:51:11 rwhitby: Before it said make setup-patches Mar 24 09:51:45 ScaredyCat: the main problem is org.openembedded.dev on openmoko server wasnt the same as org.openembedded.dev of OE server, and so if someone pushed from OM -> OE you get a lot of crap that really shouldnt be in OE.dev Mar 24 09:51:55 ScaredyCat: and a lot of false history Mar 24 09:52:19 ScaredyCat: I have come within milliseconds of doing that a few times Mar 24 09:52:19 huh? it should have said remove patches, then make setup-patches. my question is when you ran make setup-patches, did it immediately ask you to remove openembedded, or did it checkout the new patches and then ask you to remove openembedded? Mar 24 09:52:29 Ah, ok Mar 24 09:53:04 XorA: oh, not good then Mar 24 09:53:47 After I did the make setup_patches, then did a make setup and it said "You will need to run 'rm -rf openembedded stamps/openembedded' after..." Mar 24 09:53:52 I din't realise you weren't working on oe dev real, rather than oe dev moko Mar 24 09:54:39 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4242 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/sms-compose.c src/sms-compose.h src/sms-dbus.c): openmoko-messages2: display recipient number from call log Mar 24 09:54:40 ScaredyCat: Im an OE developer 1st priority and an OM/OE developer second Mar 24 09:55:23 yeah, I meant that as "in your om/oe capacity" Mar 24 09:55:56 ScaredyCat: I always try and put stuff in OE.dev first, but the guys inside OM use OM.dev Mar 24 09:55:56 I assumes that oe.dev == oe.dev-moko Mar 24 09:56:06 right Mar 24 09:56:08 k Mar 24 09:56:11 ScaredyCat: then I or John do a two way merge Mar 24 09:56:12 clear now Mar 24 09:56:28 which isnt so clear when they are the same branch names Mar 24 09:56:35 no Mar 24 09:57:01 and I see a time in the future when there is org.openmoko.stable Mar 24 09:58:23 so there is no 'bleeding' edge now, because om's branch may differ wildly from oe.dev .. Mar 24 10:01:43 ScaredyCat: no different than what there was before Mar 24 10:03:33 ? Mar 24 10:05:14 XorA: are these errors expected?: http://www.pastebin.ca/955064 Mar 24 10:10:18 IT WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mar 24 10:10:22 I GOT X!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mar 24 10:10:24 wohooo! Mar 24 10:11:26 rwhitby: yes, means someone is ahead of me updating software Mar 24 10:11:47 rwhitby: and some bad person is deleting old versions without checking a DISTRO is using them Mar 24 10:13:14 XorA: Can I get glib-2.5 to be found somehow? It's built, but seems to be missing for that virtual/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-libc-for-gcc thing Mar 24 10:13:44 CM: thats a normal message and is not an error Mar 24 10:15:28 Ok, but because of that I can't get past building pth Mar 24 10:15:35 I've really tried Mar 24 10:21:46 CM: I used to have that pth bug years ago, it was something to do with a value missing from an include file in arm glibc Mar 24 10:22:02 Ah, ok Mar 24 10:22:24 I've just cleaned out my tmp again and trying a rebuild from scratch Mar 24 10:22:30 CM: if you look through the complex #if #else crap, I think its the stack offsets in setjmp.h Mar 24 10:22:35 CM: from memory Mar 24 10:24:26 Ok, I'll try to figure it out Mar 24 10:24:31 Thanks for the hints :) Mar 24 10:33:57 has somebody an idea which touchscreen driver to use for the neo1973 display? Mar 24 10:34:19 tslib Mar 24 10:46:20 XorA, thanks! Mar 24 10:46:36 unfortunately there is no xserver-xorg-input-tslib package in the debian armel repo :-( Mar 24 10:51:27 josch: no, there are patches for Xorg kicking around somewhere Mar 24 10:52:13 XorA, meaning what? Mar 24 10:53:29 josch: somewrote a driver for Xorg but never merged it Mar 24 10:54:40 so I do *not* need xserver-xorg-input-tslib ? Mar 24 10:56:06 well you do, but it doesnt exist Mar 24 10:57:28 http://packages.debian.org/sid/xserver-xorg-input-tslib <= this does not exist? Mar 24 10:57:35 * josch doesnt understand :-( Mar 24 10:58:55 josch: oh wow, things changed since I last looked Mar 24 10:59:30 XorA, neither the less i was told that this is a very new package Mar 24 10:59:53 i just arranged thi package to be build for armel too ;-) Mar 24 11:00:03 thanks to the guys at #debian-arm Mar 24 11:00:08 excellent Mar 24 11:25:52 hello people Mar 24 11:26:17 can anyone help me in looking at the fonts available to use in openmoko like the command xlsfonts in linux?? Mar 24 11:29:57 ?? Mar 24 11:34:18 ls /usr/share/truetype Mar 24 11:34:58 thanks for that but Mar 24 11:35:05 those are the font names.. Mar 24 11:35:15 while i need to use that font in gdk, Mar 24 11:35:43 i need fully qualified font name to load the font. something like this is required. "-misc-fixed-medium-r-semicondensed--13-120-75-75-c-60-iso8859-1" Mar 24 11:36:25 on giving xlsfonts in linux gives all these possible combinations and returns me the font names while i want to know whether there is any such command or downloadable utility for openmoko Mar 24 11:38:25 fc-list or something like that Mar 24 11:38:29 anyway I have to go Mar 24 11:39:51 fc-list just gives me the font name and textual description of that font but i need the fully qualified name Mar 24 11:39:59 anyway, thanks for your help XorA Mar 24 11:42:42 Just wondering if anyone has considered linking the full screen keyboard app to the accelerometers so when you are in a text field and rotate the device it then brings up the thumb board. Mar 24 11:44:25 pjb_: Sounds good in theory but I doubt it'll be very usable as that won't work when the Neo lies flat on a table, as far as I am aware Mar 24 11:45:31 what if it was set as a default but could be configured. i can't see myself trying to type on the neo when it is on a tabletop unless i have an external keyboard Mar 24 11:46:17 Good point Mar 24 11:55:09 #openmoko Mar 24 11:55:31 yes, yes it is Mar 24 11:56:21 how to install qemu on ubuntu 7.10 Mar 24 11:56:24 Can anyone offer advice in setting up GPRS on the Neo. I live in the UK and use t-mobile Mar 24 11:56:29 i am new to openmoko Mar 24 11:58:31 mohanl, only qemu or whole openmoko to run in qemu? there are wiki pages about this Mar 24 12:00:46 i tryed usig this wiki but i got error Mar 24 12:01:06 i posted my error on community mailing list now only Mar 24 12:01:22 mohani, at what stage did you get the error and what was the error. Mar 24 12:02:18 i posted full details abot my error on community mailing list Mar 24 12:06:00 can anyone help me on the fonts guys?? Mar 24 12:08:21 openmoko/flash.sh Mar 24 12:08:23 when i run $openmoko/flash.sh i got the following error openmoko/flash.sh: line 91: 13634 Aborted (core dumped) $qemu -mtdblock "$script_dir/$flash_base" -kernel "$script_dir/$1" -serial stdio -nographic -usb -monitor null 0<&0 Mar 24 12:08:23 U-boot failed to finish writing in 300 seconds, giving up. Mar 24 12:09:01 zedstar, i was advised to speak to you in regards to gprs configuration. i didn't fully understand the message but something to do with thumbtribes over gprs. Can you help? Mar 24 12:10:10 #please Mar 24 12:11:46 can anyone help me in knowing the font strings available to load in gtk programming?? Mar 24 12:12:30 antony: Why do you need those strings to begin with? Mar 24 12:12:53 abraxa_ i am doing an application like contacts... Mar 24 12:13:07 abraxa_, i need to display larger fonts to display those names... Mar 24 12:13:44 antony: Using a GtkLabel? Mar 24 12:13:57 Or what widget do you use? Mar 24 12:14:29 abraxa_, so to load them i need font strings like "-misc-fixed-medium-r-semicondensed--13-120-75-75-c-60-iso8859-1" Mar 24 12:14:43 abraxa_, no. i am not using GtkLabel Mar 24 12:15:06 abraxa_: i am just painting on the screen directly. Mar 24 12:15:16 uh... I see Mar 24 12:15:50 balrog-kun, just so you know that u-boot fix re: qemu hasn't gone live yet, i'm having to use an old u-boot image at the moment Mar 24 12:17:36 abraxa_: the equivalent command in linux is xlsfonts Mar 24 12:21:45 antony: There's xlsfonts in OE, so why not just try a "ipkg install xlsfonts"? Mar 24 12:23:36 abraxa_: thanks a lot for that suggestion but i dont have the package in phone or internet in Openmoko.. Mar 24 12:23:54 abraxa_:so, i how do i proceed about? any idea? Mar 24 12:26:54 antony: I'm sure people like ScaredyCat will gladly build it for you - I'm building it as we speak but it might be a little bit Mar 24 12:30:17 abraxa_: oh!! thank you Mar 24 12:31:24 You're welcome (don't thank just yet, the package hasn't finished building yet ;) Mar 24 12:32:34 abraxa_: i am happy and thankful that, you people did this help.. :-D Mar 24 12:33:10 xlsfonts built, uploading Mar 24 12:33:44 lol Mar 24 12:33:47 Sneaky! Mar 24 12:33:55 thank GOD!!! Mar 24 12:34:39 :) Mar 24 12:35:29 go Cats ! :> Mar 24 12:35:44 nice splashscreen by the way Mar 24 12:36:03 just a minute guys, i found a tar file for xlsfonts and i have transferred that to openmoko.. Mar 24 12:36:14 now to which location should i extract it?? Mar 24 12:38:43 ccfly: the one with or without nostrils Mar 24 12:38:45 ? Mar 24 12:39:30 I've seen only one :> Mar 24 12:40:27 ok, well I updated it because people didn;t seem to like staring up my nose... Mar 24 12:40:57 so if there's no face, it's the new one :) Mar 24 12:42:30 antony: Are you sure the tar contains an ARM binary? Mar 24 12:42:31 ccfly: did it have a build string down the left? Mar 24 12:42:37 yup Mar 24 12:43:55 abraxa_: i dont know... i tried to extract the tar.bz2 file using the command tar -xjvf Mar 24 12:44:18 abraxa_: but it shows the error, "Invalid tar magic" Mar 24 12:44:56 antony: Hm, interesting but you can save yourself time and effort: Mar 24 12:45:28 cd /etc/ipkg; wget http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/packages/scaredycat.conf && ipkg update && ipkg install xlsfonts Mar 24 12:45:56 isn't it opkg now? Mar 24 12:46:05 depends on the version you have I guess Mar 24 12:46:16 Ah, righty Mar 24 12:46:31 Didn't know the switch already took place Mar 24 12:47:04 abraxa_: but the problem of using the internet comes up again... Mar 24 12:47:24 antony: What problem do you have with it? Mar 24 12:47:38 abraxa_: i cant access itnernet from my openmoko.. i can just transfer contents to my openmoko thru data cable Mar 24 12:48:18 rwhitby: the instructions in your new makefile are incorrect Mar 24 12:48:25 antony: Your host system is linux, I assume? Mar 24 12:48:41 abraxa_: yes.. Mar 24 12:49:09 ScaredyCat: in what way? Mar 24 12:49:29 antony: Are you interested in fixing network access? If not then it's easier to just download the xlsfonts package on your host, transfer it to the Neo and install it there Mar 24 12:49:48 "You will need to run 'rm -rf openembedded stamps/openembedded' after Mar 24 12:49:48 making sure you have no local changes in that tree. Mar 24 12:49:48 Then run 'make update-mtn setup-openembedded' to get the new branch." Mar 24 12:50:26 abraxa_: actually, my first preference is the fonts but still i do need to know about network access to... Mar 24 12:50:59 * rwhitby waits for ScaredyCat to actually answer the question Mar 24 12:51:08 abraxa_: do you know of any location to download some package like rpm of xlsfonts for OE? Mar 24 12:51:09 ScaredyCat: Where did you upload the package to? I can't find it on bh.automated.it Mar 24 12:51:16 hold on.. rwhitby Mar 24 12:51:23 had to start ff Mar 24 12:51:51 1 sec abraxa__ Mar 24 12:52:02 abraxa_: i have the xlsfonts.tar.bz2 file for OE downloaded from openmoko.org Mar 24 12:52:21 antony: Can I see the URL? Mar 24 12:52:33 pastebin.ca suck with slowness Mar 24 12:53:09 abraxa_: http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/xlsfonts-X11R7.0-1.0.1.tar.bz2 Mar 24 12:53:35 antony: Ah, the sources won't help I'm afraid as they don't contain a binary Mar 24 12:53:47 abraxa_: oh ok... Mar 24 12:54:07 antony: Let's wait until that little evil kitten here has finished his duties and helps us out ;) Mar 24 12:54:07 abraxa_: then i think i will have to search for binaries to directly install and use it.. Mar 24 12:54:17 abraxa_: sure.. i can wait... Mar 24 12:54:35 abraxa_: meanwhile can you help you out with the network access??, if you wish to Mar 24 12:54:52 antony: Yeah, sure thing. What did you configure so far? Mar 24 12:55:24 abraxa_: i have configured nothing in the network side yet in OE. Mar 24 12:57:08 antony: What's your network setup? Neo -> PC -> router -> internet? Mar 24 12:57:41 abraxa_: Neo ->Router->internet. Mar 24 12:57:53 abraxa_: i have a Wi-Fi network and a wireless router.. Mar 24 12:58:12 antony: You have a GTA02? :) Mar 24 12:58:29 Cause GTA01 has no WiFi so just wondering Mar 24 12:59:17 abraxa_: i do have a GTA02 but the OS installed by the Openmoko developers while giving us is the OS of GTA01 Mar 24 12:59:30 Ohh nice! Mar 24 12:59:33 Lucky you Mar 24 13:00:03 In that case... were you able to associate with the router already? Mar 24 13:00:10 \a Mar 24 13:00:12 \ Mar 24 13:00:37 * rwhitby examines ScaredyCat's pastebin, and refutes any error Mar 24 13:00:49 pfft... Mar 24 13:01:02 * ScaredyCat stuffs rwhitby into pastebin Mar 24 13:02:35 morning Mar 24 13:02:57 Ahoy XorA Mar 24 13:03:10 abraxa_: unfortunately, the OS installed in my GTA0 is the OS supporting GTA01 Mar 24 13:03:32 abraxa_: so the wi-fi menu itself is not popping up... Mar 24 13:03:43 abraxa_: thats very bad. i will not be able to configure Mar 24 13:03:48 \type Mar 24 13:04:27 * antony frowns for not being lucky on network access in OE Mar 24 13:04:29 antony: Unfortunately I'm not familiar with the wifi setup of GTA02 myself so unless you find someone who knows how to configure it you'll have to use USB networking Mar 24 13:04:47 hehe, and btw... OE = OpenEmbedded Mar 24 13:05:08 abraxa_: oh fine... i thought OE = Openmoko Environment Mar 24 13:05:33 abraxa_: is there a way, i can access internet thru USB networking?? Mar 24 13:05:37 Yeah Mar 24 13:06:46 antony: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking Mar 24 13:07:02 abraxa_: thank you so much Mar 24 13:07:18 No prob Mar 24 13:07:41 * antony has heard that "Ahoy" word in some famous game... Mar 24 13:10:54 antony: shoragan said wifi configuration works as on a desktop (iwconfig) and no special kernel/driver is necessary - so you might wanna try if it works for you Mar 24 13:11:51 and wpa_supplicant should work, too Mar 24 13:12:26 antony: ifconfig eth0 up; iwconfig eth0 essid Mar 24 13:13:04 iwlist scan worked Mar 24 13:13:17 * XorA cant get GTA02 wifi working Mar 24 13:13:45 did you see the driver's output while loading? Mar 24 13:13:48 what was your problem abraxa_?? Mar 24 13:14:31 shoragan: I have same problem as mickeyl just wont associate Mar 24 13:14:46 shoragan: the iwconfig command in moko gives me two interfaces lo and usb0 and says, no wireless connection. Mar 24 13:14:48 shoragan: we are trying to debug it in .tw now Mar 24 13:14:51 did you try ad-hoc? Mar 24 13:15:02 XorA: please comment to #1250 with your access point data Mar 24 13:15:52 ScaredyCat: I couldn't find the xlsfonts ipk on bg.automated.it - mind giving a hint? :) Mar 24 13:16:05 mickey, didn't your's work when we tried it in the train from fosdem? Mar 24 13:16:32 mickeyl: wrt54g, we tried to get one setup in office today to debug, but it was busted beyond repair Mar 24 13:16:36 abraxa_: i think since i have a GTA01 OS, the command iwconfig too doesnt work. :-( Mar 24 13:16:53 mickeyl: the guys are supposed to scour the shops for another wrt54g Mar 24 13:17:13 mickeyl: the GSM oscillation we make good progress on though Mar 24 13:17:31 did you update? Mar 24 13:17:43 mickeyl: and the sound problem we see tomorrow if we fixed Mar 24 13:18:42 ScaredyCat: Was gonna give antony the URL to the ipkg so he can download it to his host as his neo doesn't have internet access yet Mar 24 13:19:01 ahh ok 1 sec Mar 24 13:19:56 http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/packages/armv4t/xlsfonts_1.0.2-r0_armv4t.ipk Mar 24 13:20:46 thank you so much guys for the valuable help Mar 24 13:20:47 :-D Mar 24 13:20:54 antony: That URL is for you ;) - put it on the neo and then install it with "ipkg install xlsfonts_1.0.2-r0_armv4t.ipk" (or opkg, dunno if it changed) Mar 24 13:21:34 abraxa_: thanks a lot for you too for your help.. i finished downloading and i am in the processof uploading it in moko. Mar 24 13:22:23 now in exchange antony ... we want your gta02 :) Mar 24 13:22:50 all your gta02 are belong to me Mar 24 13:23:20 shoragan: see bug 1250. it has problems with _some_ APs Mar 24 13:23:27 ahrg Mar 24 13:23:46 is it a problem with our driver? Mar 24 13:23:52 and that's exactly mine listed there :( Mar 24 13:23:58 XorA: ok, glad to hear (gsm osc and sound) Mar 24 13:24:06 i have a strange problem Mar 24 13:24:09 where i might need your help Mar 24 13:24:19 mickeyl: nothing personal now :-) Mar 24 13:24:26 lol Mar 24 13:25:07 * ScaredyCat rates the channel at 21+ Mar 24 13:26:00 mickeyl: I put those applet icons and the theme on bugzilla. Mar 24 13:26:13 ScaredyCat: cool, thanks! Mar 24 13:26:26 although that was a job in itself, is there any reason that you can't add a file at the time you create the bug? Mar 24 13:26:39 heh Mar 24 13:26:41 bugzilla... Mar 24 13:26:47 I had to create i, then go back and add the file... mad. Mar 24 13:28:14 there is one fix needed on the theme... but that's in the bug - just to make thos happy Mar 24 13:28:26 1291 and 1293 iirc Mar 24 13:28:34 !ombug 1291 Mar 24 13:28:36 I'd like to apply for GSoC, and I don't know if I should submit my application on the openmoko mailing list, or somewhere else. Mar 24 13:28:36 * * Bug 1291, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown Mar 24 13:28:37 * * scaredycat(AT)automated.it: ScaredyCat's applet icons Mar 24 13:28:38 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1291 Mar 24 13:28:43 !ombug 1293 Mar 24 13:28:44 * * Bug 1293, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown Mar 24 13:28:45 * * scaredycat(AT)automated.it: ScaredyCat's alternate theme Mar 24 13:28:46 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1293 Mar 24 13:29:23 * rwhitby wonders if knowing where to submit the GSoC application is the first test ... Mar 24 13:29:45 oh mickeyl neither I or koen can compile any E stuff, edje_cc eats up all the memory and then segfaults Mar 24 13:29:51 good Mar 24 13:29:55 lol Mar 24 13:29:58 i have a strange problem Mar 24 13:29:58 where i might need your help Mar 24 13:29:59 mickeyl: 3G of memory eaten on my machine at OM Mar 24 13:30:13 currently i'm trying to go back in time Mar 24 13:30:19 to find out where the problem comes from Mar 24 13:30:20 that happened to me with emotion(?) Mar 24 13:30:28 something really strange is happening here Mar 24 13:30:29 please see Mar 24 13:30:33 http://pastebin.ca/955166 Mar 24 13:30:42 complete stack overflow Mar 24 13:30:44 rwhitby: Yes probably :), in fact I saw some applications on the mailing list, so I wondered if it was the right place. Mar 24 13:31:23 mickeyl: erk, file a bug, tick doesnt see it at all Mar 24 13:31:32 mickeyl: on either of the 3 machines he builds on Mar 24 13:31:38 really? Mar 24 13:31:40 now taht sucks Mar 24 13:31:45 i see it on all my machines Mar 24 13:32:05 my build machine is turned off, but I see it on OM machine Mar 24 13:32:10 i went back one week Mar 24 13:32:11 still broken Mar 24 13:32:16 going to go back aonther week Mar 24 13:32:30 my build machine is turned off, but I see it on OM machine/ Mar 24 13:32:39 yes, got it already :) Mar 24 13:32:47 OM is using a march date though? the one you rolled back Mar 24 13:33:21 someone put the shift key n eeePC too close to up arrow Mar 24 13:33:57 XorA: is your build machine off? do you see it on OM machine? Mar 24 13:33:57 :P Mar 24 13:34:19 ScaredyCat: no and yes :-) Mar 24 13:34:32 XorA: it does not look to be a problem in EFL Mar 24 13:34:37 heheh wow, how did I get that :) Mar 24 13:34:57 XorA: i'm going back w/ mtn Mar 24 13:35:00 * ScaredyCat gest a segfault with the theme Mar 24 13:35:08 e.edj theme Mar 24 13:35:18 -e. Mar 24 13:35:25 could be dlopen Mar 24 13:35:27 its rasters anti OE code :-) Mar 24 13:35:32 right Mar 24 13:35:36 that could be Mar 24 13:35:43 koen sees same problem as well Mar 24 13:36:02 * mickeyl downgrades another week Mar 24 13:36:28 do you know offhand when the new staging came in? Mar 24 13:36:52 no Mar 24 13:36:57 but OM doesnt use it Mar 24 13:37:13 2008-03-04 Mar 24 13:37:20 thanks Mar 24 13:37:21 oh sorry you mean sysroot Mar 24 13:37:24 yes Mar 24 13:37:26 sysroot Mar 24 13:37:46 although it's actually a problem in *-native Mar 24 13:37:59 which is iirc not affected by sysroot Mar 24 13:38:00 oh mickeyl tell raster to not use e.h as the main E header thats just studpid Mar 24 13:44:42 I am unable to run flash.sh for my qemu-1973 checkout ... I am trying to follow http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU Mar 24 13:44:56 The error is http://rafb.net/p/0BwAuS84.html Mar 24 13:46:40 XorA: mickeyl ^^^ Mar 24 13:47:35 fedora core? Mar 24 13:47:37 isn't that was what been talking about on the list? Mar 24 13:47:44 mohanl: it's an issue with the u-boot...bin file, try with this one instead : http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/u-boot-gta01bv4-1.3.1+git0+b29661fc1151077776454288051bc9a488351ce8+svn4230-r3.bin Mar 24 13:48:01 XorA: its ubuntu gutsy Mar 24 13:48:13 listen to the others then Mar 24 13:49:07 Niluge_KiWi: where do I keep that file ? ( I am new) Mar 24 13:50:45 mohanl: here : images/openmoko Mar 24 13:51:53 mohanl: and I think you should remove the other u-boot file too Mar 24 13:54:30 ok, found a version where edje_cc still works Mar 24 13:54:33 9b067b2f0dd220246d5a920b6ef71cc10a6404c3 (2008-02-22 13:27) Mar 24 13:54:45 advancing one more week now Mar 24 13:56:53 mickeyl, do you have scripts for automatic bisection? Mar 24 13:56:58 no :/ Mar 24 13:57:04 i am the manual bisector Mar 24 13:57:11 Niluge_KiWi: There is no images folder in qemu-1973 Mar 24 13:57:45 once we're using git i know there are some scripts for that Mar 24 13:57:53 its not bisection if yiu hunt backwards only Mar 24 13:58:28 sure Mar 24 13:58:33 i'm in advancing mode now Mar 24 13:59:25 trying 2008-03-03 now Mar 24 13:59:34 thankfully for now i only need edje-native Mar 24 13:59:42 so no toolchain etc. Mar 24 14:00:36 what is changing, the edje recipe or cvs sourcedate? Mar 24 14:00:50 mtn revision Mar 24 14:01:02 like i said, i don't believe it's EFL Mar 24 14:03:03 but since i don't have any idea, i first try to find the mtn revision Mar 24 14:03:30 since putting back EFL SRCDATE did have no effect Mar 24 14:03:35 even to a january version which i _know_ was good Mar 24 14:04:47 that's got to be the dumbest job i ever did Mar 24 14:04:49 *sigh* Mar 24 14:05:20 well it's not... i did some more dumb things ;) Mar 24 14:05:28 Care to share? ;) Mar 24 14:05:46 NO WAY! :D Mar 24 14:06:08 k-s: Gustavo, any reason why python-etk is not yet in cvs? Mar 24 14:06:08 Awww =( Mar 24 14:07:51 ok, so 2008-03-03 still works Mar 24 14:07:58 trying 2008-03-05 now (after sysroot) Mar 24 14:13:58 hey guys anyone know whats up with gettext-native? Mar 24 14:14:27 mohanl: not in qemu-1973, the path I gave you is from the root where you downloaded the Makefile Mar 24 14:15:14 /home/mohan Mar 24 14:16:26 ah, is ee the problem: sh: oe_sha256sum: command not found Mar 24 14:16:31 anyone know wtf that is all about? Mar 24 14:18:09 try bitbake shasum-native Mar 24 14:18:12 should have been built though Mar 24 14:18:21 it was but it wasn't in my path .. Mar 24 14:18:38 i just copied it to my local ~/bin and will see if that fixes it .. Mar 24 14:18:39 nope. Mar 24 14:18:57 /home/j/hak/openmoko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/shasum-native-1.0-r1/oe_sha256sum Mar 24 14:19:05 /home/j/hak/openmoko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/shasum-native-1.0-r1/oe_sha256sum Mar 24 14:19:12 oops sorry Mar 24 14:19:24 it should live in tmp/staging//usr/bin/ Mar 24 14:19:42 i don't know wtf is going on here. Mar 24 14:19:46 | install: cannot stat `/home/j/hak/openmoko/tmp/staging/i686-linux/usr/share/aclocal/libtool.m4': No such file or directory Mar 24 14:19:49 ? Mar 24 14:19:50 eh? Mar 24 14:22:07 can you look at this mickeyl ? http://rafb.net/p/2VqKHK36.html Mar 24 14:22:26 maybe let me know if you see any quick fix so i can get an image built today? Mar 24 14:22:41 remove all the offending .la files Mar 24 14:22:49 oder disable insanity.bbclass Mar 24 14:22:56 Niluge_KiWi: i dowloaded makefile under my home directory( /home/mohan/openmoko ).it is not correct please tell me where i have to download Mar 24 14:23:28 any other document link is there Mar 24 14:24:38 mickeyl: i don't get it though, isn't this makefile supposed to be 'clean' so we don't have weird situations like this to deal with? Mar 24 14:25:44 i have no idea about mokomakefile tbh. Mar 24 14:25:49 ok Mar 24 14:26:01 being an OE founder, i can't convince myself to use it Mar 24 14:26:01 well i tried removing module.la and i still get the same errors. Mar 24 14:26:09 yeah i can imagine that. Mar 24 14:26:10 all *.la files? Mar 24 14:26:20 i'm not sure why i bother with it either to be honest, but maybe its because OE scares me.. Mar 24 14:26:26 no just the offending ones .. Mar 24 14:27:15 urghs Mar 24 14:27:18 hmm Mar 24 14:27:20 you still in brazil mickeyl? Mar 24 14:27:24 2003-08-05 works Mar 24 14:27:28 well i'll just blow it off for now. Mar 24 14:27:31 there goes my sysroot-is-to-blame theory Mar 24 14:27:39 torpor: no, came back yesterday Mar 24 14:27:40 step back from Openmoko for a few days until it sorts out. Mar 24 14:28:15 feel lucky you can even build E stuff :-) Mar 24 14:28:23 none of the rest of us can Mar 24 14:28:33 meh Mar 24 14:28:34 ok, 2003-03-10 now Mar 24 14:28:43 sometimes i really don't get whats going on with all these forks and branches .. Mar 24 14:29:01 i wish i could get to the bottom of it but i just don't get why there are so many different flavours .. Mar 24 14:29:55 there are two branches and no flavours Mar 24 14:30:30 You can have any color you want, as long as it's red. Mar 24 14:30:42 Qwell: orange for moko Mar 24 14:30:48 isn't it black now? Mar 24 14:30:52 Mokorange is fading out Mar 24 14:30:55 because I *want* an orange freerunner Mar 24 14:30:56 gtk theme is still orange Mar 24 14:31:05 mickeyl: can you make that happen? :D Mar 24 14:31:33 Qwell: well, i have some orange parts spare Mar 24 14:31:40 but there won't be an official one Mar 24 14:31:56 I wonder if there will be any third-party case companies Mar 24 14:32:01 i hope so Mar 24 14:32:03 visit OM office there are numerous colours hanging from ceiling :-) Mar 24 14:32:04 I would pay for orange, if somebody were to make it Mar 24 14:32:08 * pjz thinks a hardwood case would be neat Mar 24 14:32:09 that's the reason why we distributed the CAD files Mar 24 14:32:12 well i'm trying to get the machines at the metalab to be used to build cases .. Mar 24 14:32:17 mickeyl: yeah.. Mar 24 14:33:01 mickeyl: what are indt doing for openmoko? building new phones? Mar 24 14:33:15 indt is not doing anything for OM Mar 24 14:33:18 oh Mar 24 14:33:23 indt just happens to work on things we also are interested Mar 24 14:33:24 in Mar 24 14:33:29 thought you were there for some strategic reason - just reading the blogs. Mar 24 14:33:29 i happen to visited indt because of OE Mar 24 14:33:50 yes, strategic as in "they doing stuff we are doing. lets work together" Mar 24 14:34:18 i had my OE hat on merging lots of stuff and giving them upstream access so we have less divergence Mar 24 14:35:26 i see. Mar 24 14:35:33 they've got their own fork of OE? Mar 24 14:35:38 yep. for mamona Mar 24 14:35:48 their E-based distro Mar 24 14:35:56 ah right Mar 24 14:36:04 don't know much about that yet Mar 24 14:36:08 and i want to see mamona in OE mainland Mar 24 14:36:13 could be very useful for zaurus Mar 24 14:36:20 and possible other models Mar 24 14:36:23 low mem? Mar 24 14:36:56 dunno the numbers Mar 24 14:37:26 mickeyl: you mentioned you were a founder of OE - how long has that been around now? Mar 24 14:37:37 torpor: the mokomakefile has very little to no impact on whether your OE metadata will build cleanly. Mar 24 14:37:51 Qwell: we're now in the 5th year. Mar 24 14:37:53 We started 2003 Mar 24 14:37:59 when we phased out OpenZaurus Mar 24 14:38:15 because it did not scale with more target systems Mar 24 14:38:18 once it sets up a couple of conf files, all it does it call bitbake in exactly the same way that any other OE developer calls bitbake manually Mar 24 14:38:35 rwhitby: but i don't get why i'm running into this issue .. i thought the mokomakefile was supposed to shield us from this, somewhat? Mar 24 14:38:40 actually the 6th year Mar 24 14:38:49 torpor: no, what made you think that? Mar 24 14:38:52 so everyone is having this issue with OE too? Mar 24 14:39:12 all the mokomakefile shields you from is the initial effort to set up an OE build environment correctly. Mar 24 14:39:20 what made me think that: i dunno, just some dumb assumption that the mokomakefile was for those who didn't want to hack too much on OE, but did want to have the tools to build apps for the environment. Mar 24 14:39:32 no, that's the SDK you want. Mar 24 14:39:36 ok Mar 24 14:39:50 ask mickeyl about the SDK Mar 24 14:39:59 SDK! Mar 24 14:40:07 9 out of 10 users don't want OE Mar 24 14:40:11 well don't worry about it i'll just let this sit and stew for a few days anyway .. i can still compile/build my app, its just that todays 'make update openmoko-devel-image' failed, and i'm usually a bit grumpy about it not being clean like that .. Mar 24 14:40:11 they want to build software Mar 24 14:40:17 mohanl: it's better to have the makefile in a sub folder, because it create files where it is. Mar 24 14:40:28 torpor: please stop using OE and use the SDK instead. Mar 24 14:41:11 mickeyl: thats what i'm doing with my openmoko tree, anyway - using it to build apps for OM/neo1973, and i know its a *faaaaat* way to do it, but its often great to see the changes in the base distro, and as well have reference to all the existing projects .. Mar 24 14:41:14 it seems that it will suit your needs much better, and hopefully you'll get far less frustration from it Mar 24 14:41:28 torpor: no doubt, ya Mar 24 14:41:41 torpor: it's pretty unique you can really rebuild a whole distro Mar 24 14:41:44 i'll just let it stew for a day or two and come back to it in the meantime. Mar 24 14:42:02 i don't know any commercial vendor who gives that opportunity to anyone but their bussiness partners... often not even to them Mar 24 14:42:09 sure, its good to have the whole distro tool on board .. for my needs, its important to know how things are set up like thi. Mar 24 14:42:38 mickeyl: i'm working for thales these days, in the rail group, building the base platform. we give our vendors all they need to build the whole system. Mar 24 14:42:44 ooh Mar 24 14:42:45 thales Mar 24 14:42:47 fun Mar 24 14:42:54 sarcasm Mar 24 14:42:56 no Mar 24 14:43:18 well it is sorta fun .. not as fun as embedded ARM, but i can't complain about having my own Intel tolapai board to work on these days .. Mar 24 14:43:26 thales is interesting work. Dirk Opfer (tosa maintainer and oe contributor) worked many years for them Mar 24 14:43:54 i've een there for 2 months now, its sorta sinking in to me that its fun. Mar 24 14:44:01 nice to work with professor mcguire too .. Mar 24 14:44:46 but i still have a lot of inspiration to write some kickass OM killer app and then use the fame and celebrity from that to start my own company/join up with someone else who wants to do handheld apps development .. Mar 24 14:46:07 good plan Mar 24 14:46:08 same here ;) Mar 24 14:46:09 game screenshot: http://w1xer.de/ass/invscreen.jpg Mar 24 14:46:31 cool Mar 24 14:46:38 card-carrying membership: http://w1xer.de/ass/mokopic.jpg Mar 24 14:46:40 ;) Mar 24 14:47:21 mickeyl: how is your progress koen says chack around 2008-03-19T12:32:22 Mar 24 14:47:51 5f47d416eff2a5b153b47ab40febb9ab6e523b06 works Mar 24 14:47:57 mickeyl: seems like you've got a good run of it so far though, eh? flying all around the world/ Mar 24 14:47:59 trying 0b604857bbf871639fdb43ee8380222e8ef64bb7 now Mar 24 14:48:01 f52d7d3a273a02c7b40d7541a780ac5e72a1236c Mar 24 14:48:22 torpor: indeed. i'm in "making yourself know by working on a revolutionary project" mode ;) Mar 24 14:48:28 heh Mar 24 14:48:35 torpor: next step. found your own thinktank with the best of the breed Mar 24 14:48:40 having fun watching you. Mar 24 14:48:45 in 1 or 2 years Mar 24 14:48:47 :)) Mar 24 14:48:56 i gotta finish my apps .. then i'll be happy. Mar 24 14:49:11 from there, if there's a chance to work with a handheld apps developer using linux, i'll go for it .. Mar 24 14:49:15 until then, thales it is .. Mar 24 14:49:28 righto Mar 24 14:49:43 hi all, may i know who are the potential mentors for GSoC this year? mickey? Mar 24 14:49:45 there should be plenty of opportunities for guys like us Mar 24 14:50:09 indeed, hope to see those some day come to fruition.. Mar 24 14:50:11 Sup3rkiddo: Daniel Willmann, Stefan Schmidt, Rob Tyler, Rob McQueen, me, hopefull some more Mar 24 14:50:25 how does the mentoring for gsoc work? Mar 24 14:50:48 you pick a project and try to help the student finishing it Mar 24 14:50:55 (simplified) Mar 24 14:51:42 mickeyl, i am not sure if you remember but I was pestering you guys on working on improving a gsmd implementation for fsm.org :D Mar 24 14:51:50 on the lists that is... Mar 24 14:52:02 i do remember Mar 24 14:52:05 it's insane Mar 24 14:52:07 we have 4 options Mar 24 14:52:13 :/ Mar 24 14:52:33 mickeyl, i really feel some work on that would be really useful for us Mar 24 14:52:39 us as in Openmoko Mar 24 14:52:45 true Mar 24 14:53:17 XorA: building Wed Mar 19 23:25:13 CET 2008 now Mar 24 14:53:30 XorA: before you updating SRCDATE Mar 24 14:54:16 bbiab, hungry Mar 24 14:54:54 me too Mar 24 15:03:54 hi Mar 24 15:04:54 I'm trying to build openmoko to run it via qemu, I typed make run-qemu, but it fails because 'mtn' was not found, Mar 24 15:05:20 but I don't know waht mtn is, which package should I install to get it? Mar 24 15:06:29 mtn is monotone Mar 24 15:07:34 thx :) Mar 24 15:33:02 XorA: can you grab me a green case :) Mar 24 16:09:35 krau:hello Mar 24 16:48:01 * * OM Bug 1295 has been created by singu(AT)wivada.de Mar 24 16:48:01 * * timezone is ignored Mar 24 16:48:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1295 Mar 24 16:50:29 rumor had it mickeyl was the contact point for GSOC questions, is that still true? Mar 24 16:51:55 sandman__, yeah, along with Stefab Mar 24 16:51:57 *Stefan Mar 24 16:53:29 hi Mar 24 16:53:38 whats their email address or where can I find it (I only found mickeyl business email on the interwebs) Mar 24 16:54:21 sandman__, the list archives at lists.openmoko.org Mar 24 16:54:22 *are their addresses Mar 24 16:54:34 ok Mar 24 16:54:37 thanks Mar 24 16:58:55 * cb22 wonders if it would be a good idea to put a deprecated box in everything to do with 2007.1 Mar 24 17:00:58 Yeah, its probably a good idea Mar 24 17:19:44 Hi, I am eray, and I want to be a SoC student of openmoko, can you help me for my some quetions :) Mar 24 17:20:18 eray, yes did you see the wiki entry on this yet? Mar 24 17:20:43 no I didn't Mar 24 17:20:59 the advice others have had is... Mar 24 17:21:05 1) check the wiki for suggested topics Mar 24 17:21:21 ok I have read the topics Mar 24 17:21:33 and I like the speech recognition Mar 24 17:21:35 2) write to the community@lists.openmoko.org with your proposal Mar 24 17:21:42 ok Mar 24 17:21:50 3) there are 5 or so mentors but not official yet... Mar 24 17:22:19 Speech recognition is a vastly underdone topic. Mar 24 17:22:24 4) feel free to come up with your own brilliant topic... :-) Mar 24 17:22:24 At least aimed at users. Mar 24 17:22:41 I'd pay some money for a solution that worked well under linux. Mar 24 17:23:53 10-20 quid for a speaker dependant thing that needed a fair bit of training, more the less training it needs. Something that could transcribe all my phone calls as they came in and enable full text searching would be _so_ cool Mar 24 17:24:36 i wonder, would transcribing count as recording a call Mar 24 17:25:04 I was assuming audio recording too - the transcribing solely for search and review Mar 24 17:25:40 so, my question is I have no idea to achieve this goal, but I like this topic and also I want to grow myself on mobile programming Mar 24 17:26:11 do you think I can achieve this goal, I am a skillful programmer and a very good student, however :) Mar 24 17:26:54 but I lack of knowledge of how to recognize and how to code for openmoko Mar 24 17:27:40 but if it is a thing that I can learn, I try to achieve this and I try to do my best Mar 24 17:27:44 eray, write your proposal and give some background on your skills... i am sure one of the mentors will be in touch in due course Mar 24 17:27:45 Speech recognition is man-centuries of work to get it working well Mar 24 17:27:46 what do you think about that :) Mar 24 17:27:55 ok Mar 24 17:28:18 Exactly how much can be achieved in limited recognition is a different matter. Mar 24 17:28:33 Something able to dial numbers, for example may be substantially simpler. Mar 24 17:29:43 mickeyl: ask cmarcelo, as he is the owner, but I don't think there is a problem other than "cvs" itself :-) Mar 24 17:30:38 i think it'd better to write to mail-list with my proposal Mar 24 17:31:13 I think this place is not suitable for these purposes, I am sorry :( Mar 24 17:48:46 Hi folks, is there anybody experienced with the PCF50606? Mar 24 18:21:40 Aloha raster Mar 24 18:24:09 !seen vector Mar 24 18:24:11 SpeedEvil, I don't remember seeing vector. Mar 24 18:24:52 raster's evil twin? Or archnemesis? Mar 24 18:26:03 moo Mar 24 18:46:17 how can i see the whole kernel source, including the patches? Mar 24 18:50:46 raster's evil twin? Or archnemesis? <--- Less visible sidekick used for comic releif Mar 24 18:51:25 glamo is the archnemesis Mar 24 18:51:37 him and his low thoughput schemes Mar 24 18:51:54 I cannot dispute that claim. Mar 24 18:59:19 ccfly: glamo is indeed my arch nemesis (for the moment) Mar 24 18:59:46 hehe, i was wondering how well the glamo was being integrated into the system Mar 24 19:00:56 be more specific? Mar 24 19:01:32 !seen XorA|gone.do.any.work.lately Mar 24 19:03:18 prpplague: basic problems are hideously slow bus - 7M/second or so to the glamo chip. Mar 24 19:03:38 SpeedEvil: ahh Mar 24 19:03:53 prpplague: which really limits things with a 640*480*16 buffer Mar 24 19:04:10 And the fact that the glamo wasn't really meant to be used at 640*480 Mar 24 19:04:17 raster: no, i was just curious how much trouble it was going to be to use an external i/o device like the glamo for lcd and such Mar 24 19:04:18 It's in spec - but not really optimal Mar 24 19:05:53 stuff like - for example - the 3d accel part being only able to do 512*512 Mar 24 19:08:18 SpeedEvil: interesting Mar 24 19:09:18 Unfortunately not in a good way. Broadly it looks like performance in many cases will be a wash on much stuff with the existing hardware. Except for avi/mpg playing. Mar 24 19:09:38 Some will be better - some a lot better, and some worse. Mar 24 19:10:56 is mickeyl still in brazil? Mar 24 19:11:04 no Mar 24 19:11:11 SpeedEvil: ahh, well we don't plan on using anything about 320x240 at 16bpp Mar 24 19:11:24 SpeedEvil: using the 2440's lcd controller Mar 24 19:11:31 prpplague: well the glamo does drive the lcd Mar 24 19:11:32 it does work Mar 24 19:11:37 it displays @ 480x640 Mar 24 19:11:40 @ 16bpp Mar 24 19:11:42 raster: right Mar 24 19:12:09 * cb22 still wants bzflag on the freerunner :p Mar 24 19:12:42 raster: we considered using several chips including the glamo, but eventually decided to just use whats on the 2440 Mar 24 19:13:29 well it wouldnt be a product without doing that Mar 24 19:13:43 the glamo comes with lots of gives and takes Mar 24 19:13:52 so far i have only run into its "takes" Mar 24 19:13:53 :) Mar 24 19:15:37 raster: yea we just couldn't justify the costs since we could do everything we needed with the 2440, not exactly like people use our handhelds for mpegs and mp3's, hehe Mar 24 19:16:59 whares screen Mar 24 19:18:23 ummm Mar 24 19:18:31 prpplague: what res lcd? Mar 24 19:18:39 raster: 320x240x16bpp Mar 24 19:18:53 aaah Mar 24 19:19:04 u lose much less memory bandwidth tot he lcd refresh Mar 24 19:19:09 raster: we are evaluating a 320x320x16bpp but i doubt we will use it Mar 24 19:19:11 also a lot fewer pixels to drive in software Mar 24 19:19:27 all my previous work with evas on these devices has been mostly qvga Mar 24 19:19:36 which can be quite snappy in software Mar 24 19:19:45 when u go up to vga and above u hit real trouble Mar 24 19:19:53 raster: yea, we are actually considering dropping it down to 12bpp Mar 24 19:20:05 that wont change anything Mar 24 19:20:08 raster still.. qvga is so 1998 Mar 24 19:20:18 you will still pad all pixels out to 16bits Mar 24 19:20:19 280dpi ftw too Mar 24 19:20:32 roh: glamo is also so 1997 Mar 24 19:20:33 :) Mar 24 19:20:42 raster: hmm, i thought the 2440 supported 12bpp config Mar 24 19:20:54 i remember hearing somewhere that to the human eye, anything above 300dpi is indistinguisable? Mar 24 19:20:55 raster no shit. anything thats buyable as silicium for 5 years is Mar 24 19:21:47 prpplague: it will use the lower 12bits of the 16bits Mar 24 19:21:56 the ipaq 3660 used to do that Mar 24 19:22:17 cb22: depends how close it is to your eye. dpi is a misnoma. Mar 24 19:22:27 cb22: as what ALSO matters is distance from your eye Mar 24 19:22:39 10dpi @ 1km away is pretty high-res Mar 24 19:22:41 :) Mar 24 19:22:59 roh: yup Mar 24 19:23:18 raster: you sure of that? thats not how i read the specs for the 2440 Mar 24 19:23:38 prpplague: it'd be pretty nasty to deal with 13bpp packed. Mar 24 19:23:41 err 12bpp Mar 24 19:24:00 as 3 16bit words would map to 4 pixels Mar 24 19:24:45 in fact the only nice boundary is 12 words (16pixels) Mar 24 19:25:12 doing anything that calculates pixels ro drsaws will be very painful as u are always doign read/modify/write for small ops Mar 24 19:25:32 and otherwise for larger ones u are pre-composing offscfreen and for sanity aligning that to 16 or 32bits etc. Mar 24 19:25:35 anyway Mar 24 19:25:42 so u basically lose any gains Mar 24 19:25:52 its basically a "stupid screen depth" Mar 24 19:26:02 ahh yea, gotcha, 12-15 and 28-31 end up being dummy bits Mar 24 19:26:07 it will do nothng but create hell, performance bottlenecks for anything interesting Mar 24 19:26:13 yup Mar 24 19:26:17 for some reason i was thinking it did packing for 12bpp Mar 24 19:26:19 so either u have dummy bits Mar 24 19:26:21 OR u pack Mar 24 19:26:35 and packing non-16bit aligned values... sucks Mar 24 19:26:38 or 8bit Mar 24 19:26:44 nup Mar 24 19:26:49 if it did packing - it'd bve unusual Mar 24 19:26:50 very Mar 24 19:26:59 and it'd make pixel-life hell on earth Mar 24 19:27:10 in the end u'd have software rendering doing thigns in 16/32bpp Mar 24 19:27:15 donw-convertingto 12bpp and blasting out Mar 24 19:27:19 u'd never make a gain Mar 24 19:27:30 only reason to do 12bpp is if your lcd literally cannot do better than 12bpp Mar 24 19:27:40 and u want to expose that to software so it can dither/display accurately Mar 24 19:27:50 and thus u just pad your pixels up to 16bits Mar 24 19:28:10 as i said - ipaq 3660 did this back in 2001/2 or so Mar 24 19:28:19 i have a special converter in evas just for it Mar 24 19:28:20 :) Mar 24 19:28:47 12bpp is decent - if dithered. Mar 24 19:28:52 its nasty if not Mar 24 19:28:55 raster: ahh indeed, i just double checked it was another SoC that i was eval'n that has the 12bpp packed Mar 24 19:29:00 16bpp is massively better Mar 24 19:29:19 prpplague: u'd be in pixel-hell with 12bpp packed Mar 24 19:29:20 :) Mar 24 19:29:48 yea, looks so Mar 24 19:31:10 but at 240x320 @ 266mhz u should be able to manage quite silky gfx Mar 24 19:31:21 i know evas runs better on the gta01 than the gta02 Mar 24 19:31:22 :) Mar 24 19:31:26 and that sat vga Mar 24 19:31:27 raster: we are using the 2440 at 400mhz Mar 24 19:31:28 :) Mar 24 19:31:34 u should be golden Mar 24 19:31:35 ... Mar 24 19:31:39 if your gfx engine is good Mar 24 19:31:55 raster: standard x stuff, nothing out of the ordinary Mar 24 19:32:14 raster: we don't plan on doing any tweak on the userland stuff Mar 24 19:32:41 u may want to look at evas Mar 24 19:32:48 if u want to do anything interesting Mar 24 19:33:04 it should get u high almost-32bpp-like gfx Mar 24 19:33:09 with alpha blending and stuff Mar 24 19:33:16 at high speed Mar 24 19:33:28 with a dumb fb u dont have a slow video bus to worry about Mar 24 19:33:43 it will run under x or fb or whevere u want it Mar 24 19:33:56 but if u already have all your apps written - then its probably useless Mar 24 19:34:20 raster: so the 02 is _worse_ off then the 01? Mar 24 19:34:36 cb22: well illume runs better on my gta01 :) Mar 24 19:34:50 as such in benchmarks with expedite gta01 and 02 are neck and neck Mar 24 19:35:02 raster: yea, we only have a handfull of apps to use and we already have them all written Mar 24 19:35:08 for the more complex rendering the gta02 @ 400mhz wins a bit Mar 24 19:35:08 boo :( and the 02 even has a faster a processor Mar 24 19:35:09 raster: support low end stuff Mar 24 19:35:19 but for simpler stuff it loses thanks to the video bus Mar 24 19:35:19 s/support/supper Mar 24 19:35:24 the only hope is some xrender accel Mar 24 19:35:35 no way towork around that? Mar 24 19:35:41 that can accel some of xrender - with some tweaking of the xrender engine it might be ok Mar 24 19:36:18 i was hoping dodji might get that done in parallel as he's more familiar with x internals Mar 24 19:36:26 but that may no longer be the case Mar 24 19:37:12 btw, what happens with sd card access, afaik it runs throught the glamo, i hope that doesnt go through the same 7mbps bus? Mar 24 19:37:20 it does Mar 24 19:37:29 so if u access sd at the same time as doing gfx Mar 24 19:37:30 ... Mar 24 19:37:33 welcome to hell Mar 24 19:37:33 :) Mar 24 19:37:34 ouch Mar 24 19:38:13 7mbps? Mar 24 19:38:17 where'd that number come from Mar 24 19:38:26 my arse Mar 24 19:38:27 :) Mar 24 19:38:31 I just hope that with GTA03 we won't have such issues. but i will buy GTA02 nevertheless Mar 24 19:38:36 it's 7.3 actually Mar 24 19:38:48 tot he nearest 0.1 mb/s Mar 24 19:39:01 morricone: dont expect a gta03 any time soon Mar 24 19:39:04 so stick with the 021 Mar 24 19:39:06 02 Mar 24 19:39:11 its real and happening Mar 24 19:39:15 we'll do what we can Mar 24 19:39:25 so time dd if=/dev/mysdcardconnectedviaglamo of=/myranmdrive bs=1m count=7.3 should take 1s? Mar 24 19:39:56 if dd accepted decimal counts, sure D: Mar 24 19:39:59 anrp: btw - numbers come from benchmarks. i am a benchmark person. i always benchmark stuff. it gives me a ballpark to knwo what i can expect to be able to do. Mar 24 19:40:20 benchmark of doing what, i'm wondering... because that number is awfully low for a graphics bus Mar 24 19:40:26 cb22: assuming the sd card istelf can actually read at 7.3mb/sec on tbhe media layer Mar 24 19:40:26 heh, good point anrp Mar 24 19:40:42 cb22: tho i think reads are slower. i just cared about writes TO it Mar 24 19:40:59 what exactly is the glamo connected via? Mar 24 19:41:02 anrp: benchmarking copies of pixels to video ram Mar 24 19:41:16 anrp: benchmarkign exactly that which we care about - and yes. it is very low. Mar 24 19:41:27 cb22: some peripheral bus of some sort. Mar 24 19:41:54 didnt you try something with dma that didnt quite work too? Mar 24 19:41:57 not even enough for 24fps vga yuv420p :/ Mar 24 19:42:03 * anrp hopes in the hw decoding Mar 24 19:42:03 cb22: yes. failure. Mar 24 19:42:13 cb22: dma was < 50% of the speed of using the cpu to do writes Mar 24 19:42:16 anrp: decoding what? Mar 24 19:42:18 oh, that was non-dma? Mar 24 19:42:18 cb22: whihc is quite amazing Mar 24 19:42:24 anything, probably mpeg4 Mar 24 19:42:36 and dma also locks up the memory bus 100% while active Mar 24 19:42:38 so useless Mar 24 19:42:50 not if it takes 1/10 of the time to transfer the data Mar 24 19:42:56 anrp there is no vga mpeg decoder in the glamo at all Mar 24 19:43:02 anrp: 7.3 is enough for 400x300 yuv 422 @ 30fps. Mar 24 19:43:02 oh, well in that case.. Mar 24 19:43:07 didn't know that Mar 24 19:43:10 * cb22 hopes the 03 has some hypertransport lanes in it Mar 24 19:43:20 afaik its a option only for the qvga version. and its so crappy that its not nworth it Mar 24 19:43:24 but ALL u will be doing is xferring yuv data Mar 24 19:43:27 well, gsm runs at 1.8ghz, clearly somethign in there is working fast! Mar 24 19:43:27 u wont have decode cycles Mar 24 19:43:30 ;) Mar 24 19:43:36 cb22 i hope not. else you run out of battery in like 10secs Mar 24 19:43:40 as the cpu will be hung writign to the glamo Mar 24 19:44:10 roh: battery? pff, i want mine with a fuel cell Mar 24 19:44:12 roh: So the glamo has no video playback abilities after all? Mar 24 19:44:22 a V8 Mar 24 19:44:28 abraxa_: it does - very limited Mar 24 19:44:32 buring toluene at 5 bar boost! Mar 24 19:44:41 *burning Mar 24 19:44:49 i think u could make it with 160x120 video - naaaybe 320x240 (scaled up of course) Mar 24 19:44:49 .. anyway, since i'm not being helpful >_> Mar 24 19:45:01 anrp: why settle for a v8? Mar 24 19:45:04 i want a v12 Mar 24 19:45:04 it does have video (yuv "overlay" with scaling) Mar 24 19:45:12 true Mar 24 19:45:15 or a w16? Mar 24 19:45:15 raster: Ugh. Mar 24 19:45:27 but u will spend a lot of cyclkes copying your yuv data up Mar 24 19:45:50 er, not if you can dma it Mar 24 19:46:14 u can't Mar 24 19:46:16 thats the thing Mar 24 19:46:20 at all? Mar 24 19:46:24 nup Mar 24 19:46:26 ... Mar 24 19:46:29 dma is not possible Mar 24 19:46:32 we tried Mar 24 19:46:34 failed Mar 24 19:46:36 abraxa_ it has scaling and colorspace conversion afaik Mar 24 19:46:42 ewasted 3 weeks on the experiement Mar 24 19:46:49 my fault for the waste Mar 24 19:46:51 not even if you beat glamo with a dma stick? Mar 24 19:46:56 surely the chip supports it Mar 24 19:46:56 i expected better out of the hw Mar 24 19:46:57 i was wrong Mar 24 19:47:03 glamo doesnt Mar 24 19:47:05 but samsung does Mar 24 19:47:14 samsung's dma Mar 24 19:47:19 1. losk up memory bus while doing dma Mar 24 19:47:22 locks Mar 24 19:47:36 (that means u cant do any meory read/writes fromt he cpu while dma is active) Mar 24 19:47:46 2. is 1/2 the actual throughput of copying with the cpu Mar 24 19:47:49 or less Mar 24 19:47:57 its less than 1/.2 if doing big transfers Mar 24 19:48:00 2 is strange, to say the least Mar 24 19:48:04 doing smalll transfers its much worse Mar 24 19:48:08 yes Mar 24 19:48:14 i would have expected it to match the speed Mar 24 19:48:24 and of course lose advantage as your xfer sizes go down Mar 24 19:48:33 so you'd code ina swithc point Mar 24 19:48:44 if xfer < X bytes, then memcpy() else dma(); Mar 24 19:48:53 nod Mar 24 19:48:56 but the fact that it locks up the bus is just the killer Mar 24 19:49:03 it wont win us anything Mar 24 19:49:16 well it would if dma was 2x as fast as pio Mar 24 19:49:19 but since it isn't .. Mar 24 19:49:21 raster welcome to the reality in the embedded world Mar 24 19:49:24 the hope was to offload the copy and allow the cpu cycles to go back to actual computing stuff (computing new pixels of video.gfx/whatever) Mar 24 19:49:30 its like 10 years ago in pc technology Mar 24 19:49:32 raster: will the gta02 be as fast/slow as the gta01 at least? Mar 24 19:49:35 roh: 8o(.... Mar 24 19:49:50 edistar_: doing what? Mar 24 19:49:53 but worse since some things just eat lots of power and were not designed properly for such from start Mar 24 19:50:17 roh: actually there is much better around.. but we just aren't using it - nor making decisions to use it :) Mar 24 19:50:26 raster: drawing 2d.. e.g. using evas Mar 24 19:50:38 roh: sure - but i'd liver with 1/2 the battery life for a gfx system that didnt suck. Mar 24 19:50:47 and all the ugly stuff which vendors will not tell you about till you ate all their docs, are halfway through the design and start reverse--egineering the SDK Mar 24 19:51:05 (as frankly u arent drawing all the time and it can go idle for most of the battery life of a phone as its suspended) Mar 24 19:51:11 raster i dont. i do not care about graphics at all as long as its not Phoning reliable. Mar 24 19:51:43 edistar_: thats still an uncharted setof waters Mar 24 19:51:57 edistar_: evas with the software_x11 or software_16_x11 engine is piss-slow Mar 24 19:52:06 the n800 beats the gta02 hands-down Mar 24 19:52:13 * anrp notes down a new adjective Mar 24 19:52:14 by many times Mar 24 19:52:30 oh.. tha's bad news Mar 24 19:52:40 s/tha/that Mar 24 19:52:44 and the n800 has a notoriously slow video bus Mar 24 19:52:53 BUT Mar 24 19:53:06 w2e maye yet be able to get some accel out of the 2d portion of the glamo Mar 24 19:53:08 for xrender Mar 24 19:53:21 and with some changes to evas's xrender engine - be able to use some of the accelerated paths Mar 24 19:53:31 that will mean a fair chunk of work in the driveer Mar 24 19:53:35 i took a look yesterday Mar 24 19:53:46 raster n800 also has no freedom im driverspace at all afaik (please correct me if i am wrong) Mar 24 19:53:57 roh: correct. Mar 24 19:54:14 roh: not concerned about freedom here. jsut something that is decent Mar 24 19:54:46 i didn't thought graphics would be a problem that big. I always thought other embedded stuff would be a lot harder to manage Mar 24 19:54:57 is sth like the nobounds project planed for OM? Mar 24 19:54:57 gfx is hard Mar 24 19:55:04 its one of the most demanding things u can do Mar 24 19:55:28 its a lot of bandwidth, at least Mar 24 19:55:40 i know. but you know that competing against companies like nokia is senseless without why people want a openmoko. Mar 24 19:55:47 using extern displays with the device? Mar 24 19:55:55 yeah, but even the crappy nokias can do 3d and they don't even have a good use for it Mar 24 19:55:59 playya_ ? Mar 24 19:56:07 single link DVI goes up to around 3.1 gigabits all by itself Mar 24 19:56:13 morricone they use nonfree drivers. Mar 24 19:56:37 roh: i'm not talking competing. i'm using a measuring stick - an existing linux device u can run the same stuff on. Mar 24 19:56:53 morricone which means as soon as you wanna update your kernel for some (security e.g.) reason and they do not give you a new binary you will have NO graphics driver at all. Mar 24 19:56:56 using the the neo on extern displays like TV or other screens Mar 24 19:57:09 raster well. bad comparison. very bad. eggs and apples Mar 24 19:57:21 roh: perfectly fine comparison. Mar 24 19:57:26 playya_ whatfor? even less pixels? Mar 24 19:57:26 roh, I know, that's the reason why i don't have any mobile, yet ;) Mar 24 19:57:27 mmm apple omelette Mar 24 19:57:50 roh: similarly specced devices (128mb ram, 333 vs 400mhzx arm, QVGA vs VGA, samsung vs omap...) Mar 24 19:57:58 free schmee Mar 24 19:58:02 i know it works fine on the n800 in HD quality Mar 24 19:58:04 ooh Mar 24 19:58:08 * anrp cooks the popcorn Mar 24 19:58:10 a clash of ideals! Mar 24 19:58:16 free shouldnt mean u are forced to travel across the country in a horse and cart Mar 24 19:58:24 playya_ sorry.. but ive never understood why people waste money and space/weight for things you never use in reality.. come on.. who connects his phone to a tv... ever? Mar 24 19:58:36 i would, just for the wtf factor Mar 24 19:58:41 but it would only happen once ;) Mar 24 19:58:49 the n800 USES free drivers for video Mar 24 19:58:58 they can't use the 3d accel of the imagination chip Mar 24 19:59:00 * cb22 would rather have an 8800gt with closed nvidia drivers, then an i945 with open intel ones Mar 24 19:59:00 i would. if i get the source Mar 24 19:59:02 as that has been closed Mar 24 19:59:02 raster then you should also think about form factor (which changes battery size and thus power-conditionals) Mar 24 19:59:28 roh: the n800 is similarly specced to the iphone - with a much higher res screen. Mar 24 19:59:32 roh: and a much slower cpu Mar 24 19:59:47 again - its a variyl close comparison Mar 24 19:59:47 cb22 well.. the intel one atleast works stable. and as long as you only watch movies and do desktop work you will never know the difference Mar 24 19:59:49 fairly Mar 24 19:59:50 raster, but afaik the driver doesn't use full power of the GPU Mar 24 19:59:56 playya_: yup Mar 24 20:00:02 playya_: they get basic 2d accel Mar 24 20:00:08 no xrender Mar 24 20:00:11 no compositing Mar 24 20:00:17 just 2d blits, fills Mar 24 20:00:17 raster bad comparison. battery size. also the 2g/3g modems do eat loads of power Mar 24 20:00:18 its the same GPU which is also in the n-gage phones Mar 24 20:00:28 roh: yup, and then you start up compiz-fusion with 16x anti-aliasing Mar 24 20:00:31 n-gage...aieee Mar 24 20:00:38 roh: its an excellent comparison. Mar 24 20:00:48 ngage was a huge flop. shows why one cannot make money from a bad gaming console with a bad phone in it Mar 24 20:01:02 anrp: btw, you have some popcorn left? Mar 24 20:01:15 raster why? n800 has gsm at all-> power requirements totally different Mar 24 20:01:17 i could make some more Mar 24 20:01:23 The GTA03 should be "Side talking" style.. ;) Mar 24 20:01:27 roh: did i ever comapre power requirements? Mar 24 20:01:33 i am comparing graphics perfromance Mar 24 20:01:38 cb22 i know people who USE compiz on eee-pcs. fluid. working. Mar 24 20:01:48 in the end the same gfx chip in the n800 is in the iphone Mar 24 20:01:51 and the itouch Mar 24 20:02:03 the power requirements are not an issue Mar 24 20:02:13 its not liek u need anextra special battery to power it Mar 24 20:02:33 raster: still bad comparison to compare things you cannot buy in combinations which we would need with products we cannot use for documentaion-reasons. Mar 24 20:02:40 i actually never had the feeling that compiz was as fluid as a standard wm Mar 24 20:02:48 raster gives people senseless hope where there is none. Mar 24 20:03:06 roh: i never was talking of hope. Mar 24 20:03:15 i'm talking of simple performance Mar 24 20:03:25 of a similar device Mar 24 20:03:35 gfx is offboard across a bus Mar 24 20:03:40 raster the world is NOT simpleĆ. showing it as such lets space shuttles crash and people die. its harmful. Mar 24 20:03:41 not a uma system Mar 24 20:04:25 in which case - given your world view Mar 24 20:04:26 btw.. the iphone real world battery runtime seems to be quite bad. Mar 24 20:04:31 i shall never compare 2 things ever again Mar 24 20:04:34 just nobody who has one talks about it ;) Mar 24 20:04:37 lol Mar 24 20:04:39 the safe option Mar 24 20:04:42 nothign can ever be compared Mar 24 20:04:53 i shouldnt compare the pasts i had last night with lunch today Mar 24 20:05:02 roh: sssh, dont say apple too loud or the fanboys will come out Mar 24 20:05:02 as it is just too complexto compare whihc one tasted better Mar 24 20:05:08 its just too complex Mar 24 20:05:13 imagine all those divverent atoms Mar 24 20:05:21 like billions of them that are different Mar 24 20:05:25 and differing energy states. Mar 24 20:05:34 and the different plants which died for it Mar 24 20:05:38 raster please do, but only if they make sense to compare. so comparing the performance of things can only be artificial or theoretical, since in realworld there are thousands of other showstoppers who will stop the realisation Mar 24 20:06:24 i will say it one last time Mar 24 20:06:32 n800 and gta02 are fairly good comparisons Mar 24 20:06:35 for people who only want fast 3d. i would be so drastic om is the wrong place. they should buy a iphone and jailbreak it. tadaaa there is you egl surface.. just not any freedom. Mar 24 20:06:39 i have both Mar 24 20:06:46 i have developed for both Mar 24 20:07:08 raster well.. and one will bitrot very soon when nokia dumps kernelsupport like on the 770 Mar 24 20:08:08 i choose freedom. especially since i had a few endeveaurs with locked down embedded stuff recently with my dsl line *sigj* Mar 24 20:08:30 the n80 hyas a 1500mah @ 3.7v =- we have 1200. Mar 24 20:08:31 turns out some vendors are even too stupid to keep a pppoe connection stable Mar 24 20:08:32 didums. Mar 24 20:08:48 its within a reaosnable percentage Mar 24 20:08:55 raster n80? Mar 24 20:09:00 the n800 drives a much laretgr screen with more backlight power suckage Mar 24 20:09:02 n800 Mar 24 20:09:09 yes. Mar 24 20:09:25 so i would rather like to compare it to a similar sized screen. Mar 24 20:09:33 i dont give a crud about "freedom" when i am comparing hardeware platforms and their performance Mar 24 20:09:40 fre3edom is not the issue Mar 24 20:09:54 raster: so, this whole 7.3mbps for graphics + SD.. does that mean that video isn't going to be playable from the SD, or? Mar 24 20:10:06 it means that video on sd is iffy Mar 24 20:10:09 free shouldnt mean i am forced to ride a horse and art instead of drive a car. Mar 24 20:10:32 the systems should be within spitting distance in performance in PRINCIPLE Mar 24 20:10:48 but as such choises along the way have meant they are not and won't ever be Mar 24 20:10:53 (video-bus wise) Mar 24 20:11:07 Qwell: quite possible Mar 24 20:12:27 Qwell: Actually, it might mean "does that mean that video isn't going to be playable" Mar 24 20:12:46 yeah... Mar 24 20:17:08 basically there is a big qurestion of what may be possible Mar 24 20:17:13 but don't get your hopes up Mar 24 20:17:16 thats the main thing Mar 24 20:17:31 but - we'll be trying to squeeze what we can out of it Mar 24 20:19:41 You can squeeze out more if you blend it. :) Mar 24 20:19:57 hydraulic press Mar 24 20:20:04 once the battery stops shooting flames of course Mar 24 20:25:38 hahahaha Mar 24 20:25:51 well right now 2 things the glamo might be good at: Mar 24 20:26:07 A new five-letter curse word? Mar 24 20:26:15 1. some xrender accel. enough to make 2d performance not too awful for simple to medium things Mar 24 20:26:34 2. opengl at qvga with very simple 3d "games" Mar 24 20:26:47 ie tex size of 25x6256 limits u to using textures as just textures Mar 24 20:26:51 hit the monkey, win a free...runner! Mar 24 20:26:55 not as a 2d rendering replacement Mar 24 20:28:07 bomberman3d Mar 24 20:30:21 accelerometer-driven tuxracer ftw Mar 24 20:31:51 using the freeruner as a wiimote Mar 24 20:33:49 raster: so what's going on with the decision process if better chips weren't/aren't chosen? Mar 24 20:34:28 Babear: choice was before my time Mar 24 20:34:41 it ewas a bit of a hard place and a rock thing though Mar 24 20:34:49 to get wifi on - it needed extra sdio lines Mar 24 20:34:52 and glamo provided that Mar 24 20:34:57 but at a cost Mar 24 20:35:20 sounds like might've been a bit too big of a cost :) Mar 24 20:36:33 raster: what're you trying to do? Mar 24 20:37:19 summatusmentis: trying to find a way to make the glamo behave decently Mar 24 20:37:20 :) Mar 24 20:37:35 glamo being the vid card? Mar 24 20:37:43 suma: yes Mar 24 20:37:57 is it being naughty? Mar 24 20:38:04 norty Mar 24 20:38:07 very very norty Mar 24 20:38:16 Or there were other possible hacks - for example a USB hub in between the SoC and the bluetooth/wifi Mar 24 20:38:30 urgh, this GSoC thing seems never ending Mar 24 20:38:31 but that's got its own problems Mar 24 20:38:44 (not GSoC - System on chip) Mar 24 20:39:08 lol, oh, well, Sumer of Code application process still seems never ending Mar 24 20:40:23 the applying of the students will end this week? Mar 24 20:40:58 should be starting today, and ending in a week, yes Mar 24 20:41:35 the complexity of themes might be a bachelor thesis? Mar 24 20:41:43 * HOTR peeks in Mar 24 20:41:57 playya_: Should be a Masters, I'd say. :P Mar 24 20:42:13 sadly that doesn't say much anymore Mar 24 20:42:44 yes i know Mar 24 20:43:32 but for my thesis it ends a bit too early. Mar 24 21:20:32 I wonder if someone at FIC would be open to a minimal-budget community-designed "backup plan" phone Mar 24 21:21:02 where we would just provide a finished schema to FIC for a prototype run Mar 24 21:22:10 and then it'd have better video bandwidth etc. and would be a possible choice for GTA03 Mar 24 21:23:00 if (as it seems) they don't have anyone working on a next version in-house yet Mar 24 21:24:12 Babear the problem is not wanting. its the pure realism problem that you have to choose from a) stuff thats available b) stuff that does work at all and c) stuff thats free enough to use it all all Mar 24 21:25:05 means you cannot decide by datasheet at all and lots of available hw falls out of the picture totally since its closed down or unusable due to 3rd party stuff Mar 24 21:25:06 well from raster's musings I understood that there are better free alternatives for glamo available Mar 24 21:25:31 Bebear not really. Mar 24 21:26:20 I wonder which chips raster had in mind Mar 24 21:28:57 I think he was simply thinking of the dumb framebuffer alternative. Mar 24 21:28:57 Bebear: also we have to see how much time needs to pass from the decision to use something till you have a working prototype to mo Mar 24 21:29:17 dumb fb is the only other sane option we had Mar 24 21:29:35 SpeedEvil still wouldnt changed so much. means 32mbytes/sec load on ram also Mar 24 21:29:41 roh: sure Mar 24 21:29:57 roh: swings and roundabouts Mar 24 21:30:01 and no faster ramclock since we still would need some sdhc controller (means bus impedance stays the same) Mar 24 21:30:35 Or some other attachment for wifi Mar 24 21:30:36 always a 'whats availabble' 'whats possible' 'whats the best guess now' game. Mar 24 21:30:45 SpeedEvil only slower ones avail. Mar 24 21:30:55 also a "can i actually get 5 units" game to prototype.. Mar 24 21:31:00 do you want to see wifi on a shitty spi? i don't Mar 24 21:31:04 Is usb1 a practical limitation though. Mar 24 21:31:28 Assuming that's an option on some of the chipsets. Mar 24 21:31:29 wifi on usb1 on a low powered device would seem fine to me Mar 24 21:31:43 don't really see why you'd need to push more than a few megabits anyway, it would be hard to actually use Mar 24 21:31:45 no. also eats power like hell Mar 24 21:31:56 ... Mar 24 21:31:56 usb inside a device is always last resort. Mar 24 21:32:01 doesn't have to Mar 24 21:32:27 it is. usb cannot be used in sane sleep modes without nonstandard extensions Mar 24 21:32:58 Is wake on wifi that interesting though? Mar 24 21:32:59 the only reason bt is connected to usb in gta devices is that the alternative would be spi and thats really slow compared to usb Mar 24 21:33:11 spi definately doesn't have to be slow Mar 24 21:33:14 and bt is not always in in sane real world scenarios Mar 24 21:33:42 Wake on wifi would have even more power impact than wake on bt typically. Mar 24 21:33:48 anrp its slower than usb1. Mar 24 21:33:54 ... right Mar 24 21:33:59 even a bus running at 50mhz Mar 24 21:34:02 uh huh Mar 24 21:34:07 SpeedEvil also it needs support from the soc for wifi Mar 24 21:34:23 anrp well.. first i wanna see stuff that really can handle it ;) Mar 24 21:34:24 roh: not really - it needs a wake line Mar 24 21:34:30 wouldn't the n800 imagination chip be an alternative for the glamo? Mar 24 21:34:33 as far as GPU is concerned, does Smedia have a better GPU in their product protfolio you could use in GTA03 ? Mar 24 21:34:37 SpeedEvil yes. and it needs to stay powered. Mar 24 21:34:38 i do 10mhz on a 20mhz avr, so i'm not really believing you Mar 24 21:34:44 roh: or a microcontroller. Mar 24 21:34:44 you don't get 3d with free drivers, but you don't get 3d with glamo either Mar 24 21:34:45 :/ Mar 24 21:34:51 since they seem to be the only one willing to share technical documentation Mar 24 21:34:58 wouldn't the n800 imagination chip be an alternative for the glamo? Mar 24 21:35:02 argh Mar 24 21:35:14 Babear imagination is closed afaik. Mar 24 21:35:41 SpeedEvil yes. which complicates stuff as soon as you need to connect the wifi or bt 'through' it :) Mar 24 21:36:05 roh: I was meaning solely to handle the wake states and accelerometers and buttons and stuff Mar 24 21:36:11 SpeedEvil but yes. we want a mpu. thinking about msp430 since its really cool low power Mar 24 21:36:24 the n800 USES free drivers for video Mar 24 21:36:44 Babear but not for graphics. video is only a small part Mar 24 21:37:18 MSP430 is not a bad idea at all Mar 24 21:37:19 they can't use the 3d accel of the imagination chip Mar 24 21:37:33 so, we'd almost be at the same place Mar 24 21:37:34 from that I understood that they CAN use the 2d parts, with free drivers Mar 24 21:37:39 it would really simplify power management Mar 24 21:37:57 ccfly: actually - that's not what we really want. Mar 24 21:38:12 ccfly: in some ways license from TI to actually use the calypso would be it. Mar 24 21:38:17 ccfly yes. i havent used it myself, but it has free toolchain support, 16bits, really good low-power modes (better than avr) and its awail in small packages Mar 24 21:38:29 ccfly: we already have 2 processors in there hot most of the time. Mar 24 21:38:38 D:? Mar 24 21:38:57 ccfly: and much of the programming info has leaked. Mar 24 21:39:02 if you haven't looked at the atmegaX8 series, they added some power disable blocks Mar 24 21:39:08 just saying, i've only used avr Mar 24 21:39:38 anrp still they use loads of what a msp430 can do. msp goes deeper down. for high-load i also like avr a lot. Mar 24 21:39:53 There is then the temptation to think of all teh nice things you can do with a microcontroller that costs .25 more. Mar 24 21:40:16 and then anorher one with 0,25 ccents more which has more of this and that :> Mar 24 21:40:25 still. one has to see the pcbspace such a endeavour uses and what complex parts will be needed around it Mar 24 21:40:30 a few dollars later you're wondering why you even bothered with the main processor Mar 24 21:40:33 I don't think we generally care. Once you're below 1mA at 3.3V or so, you're at 2% battery/day Mar 24 21:40:34 ;o Mar 24 21:40:52 And 1mA is huge in 8 bit space standby. Mar 24 21:40:56 and then you're back where you started! Mar 24 21:41:12 I'm not sure MSP430 uses even that much power ;) Mar 24 21:41:19 1ma is a lot Mar 24 21:41:25 lots of devices run at under 1ma Mar 24 21:41:27 Indeed - it's huge Mar 24 21:41:48 and if you can spare a switching converter, you can go even further by running at 1.8v Mar 24 21:42:10 heh.. when i first heard about intel selling its arm stuff to marvell i wondered if they now do x86 in <1 watt..still waiting ;) Mar 24 21:42:28 doesn't amd do that now? Mar 24 21:42:35 with the geode Mar 24 21:42:48 still multiple of what you can do with arm or even avr32 Mar 24 21:43:05 actually geode still falls into 5W envelope more or less Mar 24 21:43:09 afaik Mar 24 21:43:14 intel doesnt count ram, and chipset to that watt Mar 24 21:43:36 well.. 5 watt is like 5-10times what a moko has as envelope Mar 24 21:43:42 indeed Mar 24 21:44:09 the biggest eaters are the radios and the display. then the cpu and eventually gpu come to it. Mar 24 21:44:12 On cool MSP stuff http://www.ti.com/corp/docs/landing/mcu/index.htm?DCMP=MSP430ez430RFTools&HQS=Tools+OT+ez430-rf Mar 24 21:44:58 we have 2 of those kits at work Mar 24 21:45:06 got them in nurnberg last year Mar 24 21:45:10 you could add another bullet to the feature list of the neo, mabe Mar 24 21:45:16 "also functions as hand warmer" Mar 24 21:45:53 anrp heh... luckily batteries are too fat to make such hw buildable Mar 24 21:46:24 roh: I have used my neo duct taped to a 12V 55Ah car battery. Mar 24 21:46:25 speciel pockets in your gloves for neo Mar 24 21:46:28 unless the battery IS the hand warmer Mar 24 21:46:29 hmm.. Mar 24 21:46:30 idea! Mar 24 21:46:32 ask your grandma Mar 24 21:46:57 if battery is a handwarmer, your hands will soon fell warm for the rest of your life Mar 24 21:47:06 roh: for GPS logging - it was handier than a powercord. Mar 24 21:47:06 indeed Mar 24 21:47:12 SpeedEvil hrhrh Mar 24 21:47:19 pah Mar 24 21:47:29 my 500 amp load tester laughs at your 55ah battery :o Mar 24 21:48:04 although even going full tilt, that battery should run for .. days? Mar 24 21:48:14 weeks Mar 24 21:48:35 Call it a watt - that's 2Ah/day - about 3 weeks Mar 24 21:48:52 Or 6 weeks or so with the display off Mar 24 21:50:25 hmm.. load tester.. still searching for a eelectronic 3-phase load wich can sink 0-72V and 0-25A Mar 24 21:50:54 * anrp spies a custom project Mar 24 21:51:59 to be fair, i want a steerable load for a electric motor to build a test and measurement device Mar 24 21:52:33 i'm looking for something similar except its more like 0-50v, 0-150a :/ for an engine tester Mar 24 21:53:10 all the amps is the killer Mar 24 21:54:14 although what you're looking for is pseudo-hv Mar 24 21:58:19 anrp well.. i have to look up how other people do it, but atm i am still unclear where to sink 1-2kW ... some oil-radiator oven? Mar 24 21:58:53 nichrome wire is your best bet Mar 24 21:59:08 two strands of 18ga, maybe 30cm each, can sink 750w Mar 24 21:59:10 easy Mar 24 21:59:20 you can cool if if you want but you don't need to Mar 24 21:59:49 just make sure it doesn't get more than a dullish red hot Mar 24 21:59:54 hm. so heating is the solution. *g* Mar 24 22:00:00 when it gets to about orange, it'll melt Mar 24 22:00:03 but its stable at red Mar 24 22:00:14 well Mar 24 22:00:18 missed all of that Mar 24 22:00:28 eventually i should play with cheap heaters with fans and reuse that Mar 24 22:01:28 meh, my dummy load cost all of $5-$10.. fixed resistance, but two bits of nichrome and 3 bolts, and a board of wood are pretty cheap Mar 24 22:01:47 wall-plug-in heaters are generally for mains voltage, so lots of thin wire Mar 24 22:05:47 also, with bits of exposed wire, you can use alligator clips to adjust the load Mar 24 22:05:57 although that's treading into iffy areas Mar 24 22:06:05 since it *is* red hot Mar 24 22:25:32 bye Mar 24 22:28:07 Hi all. Mar 24 22:28:45 I'm interested and will probably apply as a student for OpenMoko for this year's summer of code Mar 24 22:29:14 there are a few specific projects I'd be interested in working on, but afaict there isn't actually a way to get my hands on an OpenMoko device if I were to work on the project. Mar 24 22:29:46 I know some organizations provide their students with the hardware and related items necessary for development. Does anyone know if this would be the case with OpenMoko or would I be expected to try to get my hands on some hardware on my own? Mar 24 22:31:04 Openmoko, Inc. doesn't do this, I'm afraid Mar 24 22:31:24 Well, at least as I'm aware Mar 24 22:31:40 wll... Mar 24 22:32:02 from sean: Don't worry. GSoC is extremely important to us. We will make sure all Mar 24 22:32:05 the people who participate have FreeRunners. Mar 24 22:32:25 source: community mailing list, topic: GSoC 2008 Mar 24 22:32:41 here: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-March/014349.html Mar 24 22:33:07 thats an additional incetive to participate Mar 24 22:33:16 indeed Mar 24 22:33:29 think of the bragging rights too ;) Mar 24 22:33:54 i thought of buying a HTC MAgician Mar 24 22:34:08 that's definitely an extra incentive to participate for sure. Mar 24 22:34:17 but there i might not do hardware dependent stuff Mar 24 22:34:48 i actually do not know if i have to work during summer Mar 24 22:35:02 that my problem. nokia is too slow Mar 24 22:36:40 cb22: Thanks for the notice Mar 24 22:37:00 And it's kinda blasphemic Mar 24 22:37:40 Sean says SoC is "extremely important" to Openmoko, Inc. - yet mickey is forced to organize it Mar 24 22:40:02 that's one of the benefits of having minions. Mar 24 22:40:55 mwahahahha Mar 24 22:41:36 * cb22 slaps the person who thought of lga775. Mar 24 22:41:47 * ScaredyCat is too old for GSoc ... :( Mar 24 22:41:54 * SpeedEvil also. Mar 24 22:41:55 * cb22 is too young :( Mar 24 22:42:08 * SpeedEvil ponders if average age would work. Mar 24 22:43:22 average age of a 1 day old badger and me, maybe that would work. Mar 24 22:43:45 100 + 1 / 2 still == 50 Mar 24 22:43:56 muhaha Mar 24 22:45:02 and cb22 is just a postcode Mar 24 22:45:25 right time for old farts to get some sleep... night all Mar 24 22:45:38 night old cat Mar 24 22:51:27 yay! fixed some pins on an lga775 mobo Mar 24 22:53:43 * SpeedEvil just threw out his first PCI card... Mar 24 22:55:01 thats rather ambiguious Mar 24 22:55:12 did you throw out the first PCI card you ever had Mar 24 22:55:12 * SpeedEvil has been tidying. Mar 24 22:55:29 or did you throw out a PCI card for the first time? Mar 24 22:55:37 * SpeedEvil is a packrat. Mar 24 22:55:43 I'm trying to overcome it. Mar 24 22:56:01 mmm Mar 24 22:56:15 step one: accumulate a pile of useless stuff Mar 24 22:56:24 two: go "why did i accumulate a pile of stuff?" Mar 24 22:56:30 step two: think 'I really should ebay some of this' Mar 24 22:56:32 three: add some more stuff to it and throw it Mar 24 22:56:37 Step three: procrastination. Mar 24 22:56:38 ebaying is a lot of work Mar 24 22:56:41 so :/ Mar 24 22:57:20 keeping stuff is good... once my mom forced me to through away stuff. so i did, then i bought a new hdd for my old laptop (i dropped the old one), and realized i through away the mini ide -> propritary sony ide convertor Mar 24 22:57:36 if you have a lot of space, sure Mar 24 22:57:43 but its far too easy to accumulate massive piles of stuff Mar 24 22:59:46 * SpeedEvil hires a digger to dig out his garden to a depth of 5m, and roofs it. Mar 24 22:59:52 Problem solved! Mar 24 23:00:18 er Mar 24 23:00:24 that solves the wrong problem D: Mar 24 23:01:11 Yeah. I need a robot warehousing system with LRE algorithm. Mar 24 23:01:21 Don't use an item in 3 years, and it autolists it on ebay. Mar 24 23:01:30 LRE? Mar 24 23:01:33 lru.. Mar 24 23:01:38 ah Mar 24 23:11:45 would the accelerometers in the freerunner be able to detect something like: http://cb22.za.net/can.png ? Mar 24 23:12:23 easily Mar 24 23:12:40 They are inaccurate for many things - but pickup 'down' quite accurately. Mar 24 23:12:53 +- couple of degrees. Mar 24 23:13:01 sweet :) page turning would rock Mar 24 23:13:20 Though of course turning fast round corners makes things ambiguous. Mar 24 23:13:59 what about if you had the neo flat, and you tilted the front down? Mar 24 23:14:54 it would be cool to answer a call by raising the phone to your ear Mar 24 23:15:02 you can tell down easily in all cases. Mar 24 23:15:21 what if you're in freefall D: Mar 24 23:15:23 So think how down moves when you tilt the phone (WRT the phone) Mar 24 23:15:40 * SpeedEvil places an anvil gently on anrps falling head. Mar 24 23:15:51 or on the vomit comet! Mar 24 23:15:57 which is mostly equiv Mar 24 23:16:05 gyros sound a lot cooler though Mar 24 23:16:57 gyros tastes good Mar 24 23:17:00 Also lots more expensive. Mar 24 23:17:07 accel chips are $2ish Mar 24 23:17:08 playya_: that too Mar 24 23:17:15 Gyro chips are $20ish Mar 24 23:19:29 SpeedEvil: So am I understanding it right that the only thing we can't detect is motion parallel to gravity? e.g. rotating the phone as it's lying flat on a table Mar 24 23:20:10 yes Mar 24 23:20:18 Thanks Mar 24 23:20:21 or holding the phone vertically, and turning in place Mar 24 23:20:47 so no "spin-the-bottle" game for open moko :P Mar 24 23:21:04 well strictly the only motion you can't detect is rotation around the axis between the two accelerometers Mar 24 23:21:09 You can pick up _rapid_ translational accellerations - but these are pretty much fairly violent Mar 24 23:21:11 however the small scale accelerations are hard to measure Mar 24 23:21:15 playya_: rig it :p Mar 24 23:21:17 anrp: with ideal accellerometers. Mar 24 23:21:31 anrp: these ones have 16cm/s^2 bits Mar 24 23:22:05 6 bit? Mar 24 23:22:10 ..per g Mar 24 23:22:20 anrp: somewhere near that. Mar 24 23:22:23 that's terrible Mar 24 23:22:31 IIRC 8 bits and +-2G Mar 24 23:22:40 i didn't know that :\ Mar 24 23:22:46 i thought it would be closer to 10 Mar 24 23:22:53 it's around an order of magnitude worse than the best. Mar 24 23:23:11 ;( Mar 24 23:29:03 good night everybody Mar 24 23:53:46 TOUCHSCREEN WORKS IN DEBIAN ON THE NEO!! Mar 24 23:53:51 used tslib xorg driver Mar 24 23:54:16 now i have to find a way to swap x/y axis as it seems to assume 640x480 screen Mar 24 23:54:55 nice Mar 24 23:55:16 isnt openmoko based on openembedded, which is based on debian? Mar 24 23:59:07 openembedded is (distantly) based on portage (gentoo) from what i remember Mar 25 00:00:22 if I should die tomorow I wrote down everything here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian Mar 25 00:00:32 morning k-s ! :-) Mar 25 00:00:46 josch: hey! Mar 25 00:01:16 josch: nice work Mar 25 00:01:21 k-s, learned about evas cache a few days ago... it speeds things up alot ^^ Mar 25 00:01:41 rwhitby, yeah just one more step for the touchscreen! Mar 25 00:02:13 after x works I will switch to directfb with since evas is lot faster than than with x11 Mar 25 00:02:26 -with Mar 25 00:02:32 -than Mar 25 00:02:34 -.- Mar 25 00:02:39 have go get some sleep... Mar 25 00:03:00 debootstrap ftw Mar 25 00:03:57 gotta go Mar 25 00:24:01 partly fixed the touchscreen problem by rotating x and not the touchscreen :P Mar 25 00:24:07 now having to calibrate it Mar 25 00:24:13 have to figure out how Mar 25 00:27:46 josch: xtscal? Mar 25 00:30:24 i thought the app was named ts_calibrate in openmoko Mar 25 00:31:45 Both work ;3 Mar 25 00:32:52 puh... und ich wollte vor vier stunden im bett sein... :-D Mar 25 00:37:24 Tja ;) Mar 25 00:38:25 the touchscreen in openmoko has to be already calibrated on install Mar 25 00:38:37 can I find the correct values anywhere? Mar 25 00:39:42 maybe this content of /etc/ts.conf is of help? Mar 25 00:45:55 mickeyl: you around? Mar 25 00:46:42 summatusmentis, he is probably sleeping right now as it is nearly 2am here ^^ Mar 25 00:47:07 oh, god, my bad Mar 25 00:47:42 hmm... this summer of code app is gonna suck Mar 25 00:48:33 8 pounds a day for congestion charge for example Mar 25 00:48:35 oops Mar 25 00:49:00 I agree, outrageous Mar 25 00:52:13 could anybody past me his /etc/ts.conf ? Mar 25 00:52:28 if not I'm going to bed now :P Mar 25 00:53:42 josch: it's quite large - so no Mar 25 00:53:46 josch: dcc work? Mar 25 00:53:58 SpeedEvil, it's large? Mar 25 00:54:03 why not use nopaste? Mar 25 00:54:27 actually - http://www.mauve.plus.com/ts.conf Mar 25 00:54:29 dcc should work too Mar 25 00:54:33 ah thx! Mar 25 00:54:35 By large - I mean too large to paste Mar 25 00:55:05 this is a somewhat old image Mar 25 00:55:13 hrm.. Mar 25 00:55:26 do you happen to know where the calibration data gets stored? Mar 25 00:55:38 this ts.conf looks exactly like the default one Mar 25 00:56:09 I think it's in /etc/pointercal Mar 25 00:56:10 -67 36365 -2733100 -48253 -310 45219816 65536 Mar 25 00:56:13 is an example file Mar 25 00:56:18 ah right! Mar 25 00:56:29 ts_calibrate should generate Mar 25 00:56:30 completely forgot ^^ Mar 25 00:56:53 I shouldnt need ts_calibrate if I get a file from an already working openmoko istallation Mar 25 00:57:18 Well - your toucscreen will be off Mar 25 00:57:34 But it should generally sort-of-work. Mar 25 00:57:56 was there someone else that worked w/ mickeyl on GSoC? Mar 25 01:01:12 SpeedEvil, wohoooo! Mar 25 01:01:22 your pointercal fixed EVERYTHING!! Mar 25 01:01:30 it also did the rotation thingy ^^ Mar 25 01:01:45 okay - debian guide 100% complete now! Mar 25 01:01:50 mission accompished Mar 25 01:02:15 :) Mar 25 01:03:34 josch: Debian guide ? Mar 25 01:04:27 CVirus, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian Mar 25 01:04:31 debian on neo1973 Mar 25 01:04:34 works perfect now Mar 25 01:04:44 install a whole desktop environment if you like ^^ Mar 25 01:05:05 KDE? Mar 25 01:05:08 :) Mar 25 01:05:33 yeah also kde Mar 25 01:05:53 josch: SD image please with means of starting a seperate VT for debian under chroot. :) Mar 25 01:05:57 this enables you to run a full desktop distro - it's silly but works now ^^ Mar 25 01:06:00 I guess I'm gonna fake my way through this summer of code application, hm Mar 25 01:06:26 SpeedEvil, another sd image is coming soon... :-D Mar 25 01:06:30 heading for bed now Mar 25 01:06:36 everything accomplished Mar 25 01:06:42 can sleep well now ^^ Mar 25 01:06:47 lol Mar 25 01:22:55 josch: nice **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Mar 25 02:59:56 2008