**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Mar 25 02:59:56 2008 Mar 25 03:35:00 * * OM Bug 1296 has been created by graeme(AT)openmoko.org Mar 25 03:35:02 * * After time Xglamo takes 100% cpu Mar 25 03:35:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1296 Mar 25 03:58:01 * * OM Bug 1297 has been created by tick(AT)openmoko.com Mar 25 03:58:02 * * ipkg-utils lacks package size Mar 25 03:58:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1297 Mar 25 04:03:00 * * OM Bug 1298 has been created by tick(AT)openmoko.com Mar 25 04:03:01 * * A new tag "Tags:" request Mar 25 04:03:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1298 Mar 25 04:57:49 i have problem to run openmoko/flash.sh.i have small doubt about .bin file any one can help me Mar 25 05:01:37 my problem mensioned here http://rafb.net/paste/index.html Mar 25 05:01:48 #opnmoko Mar 25 05:21:11 mickeyl: ping Mar 25 05:23:07 mohan: the url you gave does not point to your paste Mar 25 05:25:54 sorry my problem is solved thanks Mar 25 05:27:25 qemu is flashing now Mar 25 05:39:44 Hi, my name is Steve, sorry for being off topic but I'm interest in gsoc Mar 25 05:39:55 are there are any mentors here that I can talk to? Mar 25 05:42:48 freeper: Unlikely at this time of day, but the community ML is a good bet (read the archives too. Mar 25 05:43:42 thanks cap Mar 25 06:48:35 summatusmentis, well it was at least slight possible that mickeyl would be awake 2am tonight but i can assure you that it is *impossible* that he is awake now (8am) :-D Mar 25 06:49:36 he mostly comes only in the times of afternoon - so maybe you should check back in 6 hours or so if you want to catch him Mar 25 06:49:52 -only Mar 25 06:58:26 qemu is flashing my PC but i can't select boot option how to select Mar 25 06:58:59 i run arm-softmmu/qemu-system-arm -M gta01 -m 130 -mtdblock openmoko/openmoko-flash.image -kernel openmoko/openmoko-kernel.bin -usb -show-cursor Mar 25 06:59:28 enter key only works my PC Mar 25 07:00:28 any one can help me to select boot option Mar 25 07:01:25 mohan, use space Mar 25 07:02:00 ya works fine thanks Mar 25 07:10:39 hi when i select boot i boots but displaying error continuously error is: Mar 25 07:11:28 error carbage collection node at 02d3c000! Mar 25 07:12:10 jffs2_flush_wbuf():write failed with -5 Mar 25 07:13:15 this the error this error repeats anything going wrong Mar 25 07:14:16 i am selected boot first option is it correct Mar 25 07:14:46 maybe your rootfs is damaged? Mar 25 07:14:56 what can i do Mar 25 07:15:02 rebuild it? Mar 25 07:15:15 from first Mar 25 07:15:22 dont know - I'm no qemu user Mar 25 07:16:26 any other can help Mar 25 07:18:53 joschh:what emulator you are using Mar 25 07:19:08 mohan, hahaha Mar 25 07:19:20 i have a *real* neo (tm) Mar 25 07:19:24 ;) Mar 25 07:19:37 ported debian to it last night Mar 25 07:19:47 i am also have real neo developer kit Mar 25 07:19:48 well *ported* ^^ Mar 25 07:20:08 mohan, what do you want to develop? Mar 25 07:20:14 maybe you dont need qemu? Mar 25 07:20:19 (as it sucks) Mar 25 07:20:26 i have some idea Mar 25 07:20:44 but i want to work on openmoko Mar 25 07:20:48 just know that 99% of the apps do not need openmoko Mar 25 07:20:53 they will run on every linux Mar 25 07:21:09 you can even have the openmoko gtk theme on you desktop Mar 25 07:21:35 and if you want to do hardware stuff, then qemu is useless anyway Mar 25 07:21:52 what do you want to do? Mar 25 07:22:20 i want to contribute wifi device driver Mar 25 07:23:48 mohan, i dont know if qemu has what you want Mar 25 07:24:33 mohan, an as I heard wifi is already working as you would expect to work on a desktop (iwconfig, ifup, etc...) Mar 25 07:27:34 josch:i want to contribute openmoko what can i do? Mar 25 07:28:58 mohan, I think I'm the wrong person to speak to, since I'm only a casual contributor and not someone big in the community - maybe just wat till others are awake ^^ Mar 25 07:31:11 freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r96 10/trunk/software/gsm0710muxd/src/gsm0710muxd.c: minor kosmetic changes Mar 25 07:31:37 i am new to openmoko Mar 25 07:31:37 i am started from last 4 days Mar 25 07:33:13 * josch started a year ago ^^ Mar 25 07:33:35 * XorA started a long long time ago Mar 25 07:33:39 hrhr Mar 25 07:33:47 mohan, yeah! ask XorA ! Mar 25 07:33:52 :P Mar 25 07:36:24 josch:i have neo1973 how to update new application to it Mar 25 07:36:25 my phone terminal kerboard is not installed Mar 25 07:36:25 how to install it Mar 25 07:37:25 mohan, openmoko-terminal2 ? Mar 25 07:37:43 dont know much about the openmoko apps Mar 25 07:37:58 I'm with the underground guys: http://neo1973-germany.de/ :P Mar 25 07:51:02 openmoko: 03werner * r4243 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/ (gta02-sound-bandaid.patch series): Mar 25 07:51:02 openmoko: A temporary work-around for Mar 25 07:51:02 openmoko: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1172 Mar 25 07:53:30 mohan: just login to the neo via ssh and install software from there Mar 25 07:56:23 emdete, he has no neo Mar 25 07:56:36 he uses qemu and it's not working Mar 25 07:56:53 ...ssh not working? oups... Mar 25 07:57:17 no Mar 25 07:57:21 qemu is not working Mar 25 08:05:53 good day everybody Mar 25 08:08:47 * pandian was known as antony yesterday Mar 25 08:09:14 abraxa_: thanks a lot for your help yesterday. xlsfonts did work in my moko. Mar 25 08:16:26 from where can i get larger fonts for openmoko?? Mar 25 08:17:06 just change the font size Mar 25 08:17:25 how can i do that using gtk?? Mar 25 08:18:05 good morning Mar 25 08:18:07 i am loading fonts using the API gdk_font_load("-misc-fixed-medium-r-semicondensed--13-120-75-75-c-60-iso8859-1"); Mar 25 08:19:12 maybe by changing -dpi on startx? Mar 25 08:20:12 but that will be changing the resolution of my screen. right?? Mar 25 08:20:29 no only the dpi Mar 25 08:23:09 can you tell me the place where i need to change the dpi> Mar 25 08:23:11 *? Mar 25 08:23:48 would have to search myself - maybe in the init files? Mar 25 08:24:54 oh! Mar 25 08:45:51 morning Mar 25 08:52:59 openmoko: 03werner * r4244 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/smedia-glamo.patch: (log message trimmed) Mar 25 08:52:59 openmoko: Subject: [PATCH] fix-glamo-reissue-memory-settings-during-resume.patch Mar 25 08:52:59 openmoko: The "black snow" effect after resume seems to be caused by the Mar 25 08:52:59 openmoko: memory in the glamo needing to be reset after the Mar 25 08:52:59 openmoko: "deep power down". This patch rewrites a subset of registers in Mar 25 08:53:03 openmoko: that area on resume (reinitializing them all destroys the video Mar 25 08:53:05 openmoko: output action) and removes the black snow issue. Mar 25 09:24:24 * pandian was known as antony yesterday Mar 25 09:31:58 how do i instal new fonts in openmoko? Mar 25 09:45:13 how do i install keyboard to type command at terminal on my neo1973 development kit? Mar 25 09:48:43 can any one tell me Mar 25 09:49:15 You mean bluetooth? Mar 25 09:50:50 i connected via ssh root@192.168.0.200 Mar 25 09:52:14 any news about alternative or custom shells yet? Mar 25 09:52:29 niklauz: no Mar 25 09:52:40 mohan: and? Mar 25 09:53:31 hi all Mar 25 09:53:42 hello Mar 25 09:53:59 mohan: did you connect to 192.168.0.202? Mar 25 09:54:50 yes Mar 25 09:56:10 my problem is to install keyboard layout Mar 25 09:56:21 anyone know how tricky it would be switch the casevwith a new one? im wondering is it something i ccan safely do myself Mar 25 09:56:50 opkg install -force-depends multitap-pad,it not works Mar 25 09:58:50 niklauz: pretty easy Mar 25 09:59:16 niklauz: you need to unscrew a couple of screws, and that's it. Mar 25 09:59:41 mohan: sorry - unsure. You've setup the route so that the neo can access the net? Mar 25 10:01:49 is there a way to safely 'ipkg upgrade' my moko without running into 'out of disk space' errors? Seems like it trashes itself with it's temp files. Mar 25 10:02:05 Or how can i clean the temp files when this happens Mar 25 10:02:08 put /tmp on SD Mar 25 10:03:02 speedevil, cool! how much $ should i expecct to pay for one? (probably to early to tell im guessingg) Mar 25 10:03:23 DPThought: search ipkg link Mar 25 10:03:29 DPThought: on the wiki Mar 25 10:04:16 niklauz: whatever anyone can sell them for. Do you mean simply cosmetic - different colors? Mar 25 10:05:59 SpeedEvil: nice. Can i use the installed packages from SD after reflashing? Probably not, but sounds like neat idea. :) Mar 25 10:06:06 yes Mar 25 10:06:19 err Mar 25 10:06:19 no Mar 25 10:06:32 Or rather - I'm unsure. Mar 25 10:06:55 Well. You must ipkg-link them back to the root fs for transparent use Mar 25 10:07:04 speedevil, im hoping the cad release will deliver something cool .its totally anticipatory ;-) Mar 25 10:07:33 niklauz: As I understand it, none of the common rapid prototyper materials will be adequate for it. Mar 25 10:07:39 it's prbably what ipkg-link mount does. But if ipgk works only a little bit like dpgk there would be still many meta data issing after that. Mar 25 10:07:50 unsure too :) Mar 25 10:08:00 niklauz: this means pretty much that the individual expense per-case will be high. Mar 25 10:08:06 it stores the metadata on the fs where it installs Mar 25 10:08:10 (at least) Mar 25 10:08:30 niklauz: I can make you a case for $5 in any colour you'd like. Mar 25 10:08:42 niklauz: if you order 10000. Mar 25 10:08:55 ok, is there any reason why i sould not use a propper filesystem on /media/card? I would hate to instal stuff on vfat. Mar 25 10:09:09 speedevi, oh so it is at least partially impractical. i hadnt considered that Mar 25 10:09:10 DPThought: nope - ext2 works Mar 25 10:09:24 SpeedEvil: great. thank you Mar 25 10:09:30 niklauz: the moulds are bloody expensive Mar 25 10:09:38 niklauz: for injection moulding. Mar 25 10:09:54 niklauz: and that's really the only way to make good cases cheap. Mar 25 10:10:11 good to know, i can love the default case so no loss Mar 25 10:11:45 * niklauz is eager Mar 25 10:23:27 cdc_ether behaves strange on my host when i leave a ssh session open and disconnect the neo. If anyone wonders, just close the session before disconnecting. ;) Mar 25 10:31:08 works for me Mar 25 10:31:23 Session just resumes Mar 25 10:33:18 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4245 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/unsolicited.c: gsmd: fix clip & colp parser problem (Erin Yueh) Mar 25 10:42:17 Wow, last "community update" dates back to the 25th of feb Mar 25 10:42:44 Wasn't some one hired who's main role (or at least partial main role) was liaising with the community and keeping it updated? Mar 25 10:43:08 * ScaredyCat points wildly Mar 25 10:43:46 wibbit: They were killed in a tragic accident, while playing leapfrog with a unicorn. Mar 25 10:44:04 SpeedEvil: Some thing tell's me you may be pulling my leg Mar 25 10:45:13 wibbit: see the latest email from steve too Mar 25 10:45:48 cb22: on the announce mailing list? Mar 25 10:46:03 * SpeedEvil hates the random scattering of new info around everywhere. Mar 25 10:46:15 Not to mention the lack of new info. Mar 25 10:46:40 wibbit: nope, announce Mar 25 10:46:44 argh Mar 25 10:46:46 community* Mar 25 10:47:00 Someone needs to tie up each developer when they first get in for that week, and not let them go until they write a line of status. Mar 25 10:47:10 opentwitter Mar 25 10:47:19 Rope. Mar 25 10:47:24 Nice thick hemp rope. Mar 25 10:47:31 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-March/014361.html Mar 25 10:47:33 :) Mar 25 10:50:53 * wibbit shakes head Mar 25 10:51:32 So, we have information appearing on the announce mailing list, community mailing list AND the community_updates page, and then well, randomly else where Mar 25 10:51:33 lovely Mar 25 10:52:36 So, the PVT (basically making sure that the device can be mass produced reliably, I'm assuming) is about to commence. Mar 25 10:52:40 Sound about right? Mar 25 10:53:32 sounds like it Mar 25 10:53:45 It sounds - to me. Mar 25 10:54:04 Like the stage they've completed is 4-5 maybe on a very manual process Mar 25 10:54:15 basically manual pick and place with little automation Mar 25 10:54:23 this is to verify that the design is sane Mar 25 10:54:34 and has no really unexpected oopses Mar 25 10:55:11 then they pull the trigger on a small production run, to make sure that there are no surprises on a small run, before going to a larger one. Mar 25 11:02:20 That sounds like it could be 6 weeks off Mar 25 11:02:22 :( Mar 25 11:02:27 * cb22 hopes the ordering time will be less then 01 Mar 25 11:08:59 I'm still trying to decide if I should by a GTA02 or not, Mar 25 11:10:08 why buy a phone when you can spend all your money on drugs and hookers Mar 25 11:10:24 I don't do drugs or hookers =) Mar 25 11:10:54 CoreDump|afk: then buy a phone :) Mar 25 11:10:57 an EEE PC OTOH is about the same price and I'd probably get more use out of it =) Mar 25 11:11:21 then buy an eee and leave the channel :) Mar 25 11:11:40 * CoreDump|afk points at his GTA01 Mar 25 11:11:49 CoreDump|afk: i had the same dilemah Mar 25 11:12:13 i made a choice. why get a eee OR a freerunner when i can get a eee AND a freerunner :) Mar 25 11:12:15 CoreDump|afk: buy a olpc and transplant the screen onto the neo Mar 25 11:12:31 that would be win Mar 25 11:12:33 cb22: good choice Mar 25 11:12:49 Zanoi_: heh, I kinda like neos form factor as it is Mar 25 11:13:25 wtf! Mar 25 11:13:27 cb22: If I was a rich bastard, I'd go for that as well =) Mar 25 11:13:36 * ScaredyCat just found an easter egg in om Mar 25 11:13:54 * cb22 thinks easter eggs are easter eggs. Mar 25 11:14:03 i mean, why the hell does a bunny lay eggs Mar 25 11:14:24 CUS IT IS THE POPE Mar 25 11:14:29 could it be that the internal clock gets reset if I remove the battery? Mar 25 11:14:36 exactly, the guy "inventing" the easter bunny must have been on drugs... Mar 25 11:14:37 ZOMG LULZ CATHOLIC HAX! Mar 25 11:15:03 all hail the mighty easter chicken Mar 25 11:15:13 hail, hail! Mar 25 11:15:46 anything that helps you get laid. Mar 25 11:15:49 Mar 25 11:15:56 amen =) Mar 25 11:16:02 wow, you guys are on fine form today. :P Mar 25 11:16:32 time for more coffee Mar 25 11:16:34 could it be that the internal clock gets reset if I remove the battery? Mar 25 11:16:44 :: press hold aux + quick click power Mar 25 11:17:43 * cb22 lied about the eee, i'm really getting a u810 Mar 25 11:17:44 maybe everyone knows about it... and I just missed it Mar 25 11:21:34 cb22: well, can't follow you there. After the recent actions of the Nokia leadership I have sworn to never buy anything from Nokia ever again. Mar 25 11:23:02 * ScaredyCat looks at CoreDump|afk ... Mar 25 11:23:06 wa? Mar 25 11:24:44 CoreDump|afk: its a fujitsu Mar 25 11:24:49 Nokia closes down entire plants in germany "because they didn't make _enough_ profit" (they weren't loosing money, just not making "enough" of it) to please its criminal friends on wallstreet Mar 25 11:24:54 oh come on. Mar 25 11:25:03 cb22: Oh sorry, thought that was a typo =) Mar 25 11:25:12 i dislike nokia Mar 25 11:25:19 dislike corporations all you want. Mar 25 11:25:22 * CoreDump|afk high-fives cb22 Mar 25 11:25:35 xcasex_: thanks, i will Mar 25 11:25:46 but realise that they aren't into making a humane society. they're in it for the short-term buck. Mar 25 11:26:19 well, some show something that is called "social responsibility", some, kick it with their feets. I know which ones I support ;) Mar 25 11:26:54 noika phones seem to suck nowdays Mar 25 11:27:04 * cb22 imagines playing bzflag on the u810. Mar 25 11:27:07 * cb22 drools Mar 25 11:27:38 although my end goal is to have bzflag on the freerunner Mar 25 11:27:56 but i get the feeling huge bribes would need to be involved for opengl support Mar 25 11:28:01 :) Mar 25 11:28:05 =) Mar 25 11:28:17 cb22: wow, the u810 is a sweet _small_ machine! Mar 25 11:28:30 just a "wee" bit more expensive than the eee heh Mar 25 11:28:33 hehe Mar 25 11:29:11 whats your definition of a lot then Mar 25 11:29:16 definitely drool-worthy Mar 25 11:29:32 heh Mar 25 11:30:04 what i think would be the coolest however, would be bzflag on the freerunner, controlled with accelerometers Mar 25 11:30:19 so tilt the phone forward, tank goes forward, tilt back, tank reverses Mar 25 11:30:44 what can I say, if I had to get a new notebook, It would probably in the u810 price-range. Mar 25 11:31:00 CoreDump|afk: you in america? Mar 25 11:31:06 nah, germany Mar 25 11:31:17 ah that's $ Mar 25 11:31:24 * CoreDump|afk slaps fore-head Mar 25 11:31:29 $3 = euro 2 :p Mar 25 11:31:34 !google 900 USD in EUR Mar 25 11:31:35 900 U.S. dollars = 582.97707 Euros Mar 25 11:32:08 That's assuming there is a like for like conversion, but there rarely is Mar 25 11:32:08 * cb22 is going on a google paid tripped to america in july :D Mar 25 11:32:22 cb22: sweet! Mar 25 11:32:29 buy, buy, buy, buy Mar 25 11:32:37 heh Mar 25 11:32:44 considering the prices are half that of the ones here in south africa Mar 25 11:32:51 are you working for google? Mar 25 11:33:00 heh, i wish Mar 25 11:33:03 =D Mar 25 11:33:17 so do I...at times anyway Mar 25 11:33:17 took part in ghop Mar 25 11:33:41 was chosen as the grand prize winner for moinmoin :D Mar 25 11:34:04 very nice! Mar 25 11:36:55 The u810 would make a nice carputer Mar 25 11:37:18 I wonder how well the 945GM chipset handles GL Mar 25 11:40:53 it can handle comiz-fusion Mar 25 11:44:20 good enough ;) Mar 25 11:48:31 * CoreDump|afk heads to work, cya! Mar 25 12:12:13 cb22: surely making you go to google is a punishment... Mar 25 12:12:24 .. at least for google it is. Mar 25 12:12:53 * cb22 slaps ScaredyCat with a quad core xeon Mar 25 12:14:41 maybe the plan on brainwsahing us, and implanting us with nsa chips Mar 25 12:14:44 they* Mar 25 12:16:21 yeah, probably - you are virus Mar 25 12:18:36 http://scap.linuxtogo.org/ <= :-D Mar 25 12:19:32 josch: haha nice Mar 25 12:19:37 hows the speed? Mar 25 12:20:04 cb22, quite impressive Mar 25 12:20:17 it's usable Mar 25 12:20:41 I will supply a ready to use image sooner or later so you guys can try it out without hassle Mar 25 12:25:59 * cb22 waits for debian to install on his server Mar 25 12:26:05 freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r97 10/trunk/software/pyneod/ (15 files): Mar 25 12:26:05 freesmartphone.org: step II towards OTAPI Mar 25 12:26:05 freesmartphone.org: pygsmd now REQUIRES a muxer Mar 25 12:26:05 freesmartphone.org: pygsmd simplified alot Mar 25 12:26:10 * ScaredyCat spanks josch with a goat Mar 25 12:27:18 ScaredyCat: billy or nanny? And what breed? Enquiring minds want to know! Mar 25 12:27:31 * cb22 thinks no gradients > gradients Mar 25 12:28:05 * SpeedEvil generally agrees. Mar 25 12:28:23 Though stairs on motorways make driving harder. Mar 25 12:28:47 one of those fainting ones Mar 25 12:29:46 Anyway - we need a herd of OM goats. Mar 25 12:31:08 of course I've heard of goats Mar 25 12:31:11 SpeedEvil: can we cook them? and have goat pie? Mar 25 12:31:22 i prefer wabbit pie Mar 25 12:31:32 For predicting release dates. Hieromancy has a good history. Mar 25 12:32:40 SpeedEvil has been replaced by a bot! Mar 25 12:32:56 hey, what's with the "OpenMoko" changed back to "Openmoko" bulk changes on the wiki? Mar 25 12:33:04 and also some pages are missing history Mar 25 12:33:13 Openmoko is the new name Mar 25 12:33:18 really? Mar 25 12:33:21 yep Mar 25 12:33:29 theres a mail about it somewhere Mar 25 12:33:40 yeah, lots of mail Mar 25 12:33:53 ah, i'm gonna grep the archives, thanks for pointer Mar 25 12:33:54 np: Goldie Lookin' Chain - Half Man - Half Machine Mar 25 12:34:05 probably on the community list Mar 25 12:34:10 oPenMoKO is better :P Mar 25 12:34:24 oPeNMoKo Mar 25 12:34:35 !google define:Hieromancy Mar 25 12:34:36 or OpEnmOko Mar 25 12:34:36 Divination by interpreting sacrificial objects such as burnt offerings or slaughtered animals. Similar to aruspicy (interpretation of animal ... @ http://www.divinitydice.com/dictionary.htm ( http://www.google.com/search?hl=all&q=define:Hieromancy ) Mar 25 12:34:58 !google spiderpig Mar 25 12:34:58 Sign in @ https://www.google.com/accounts/Login?continue=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=spiderpig&safe=off&btnG=Search&lr=lang_all&hl=en | ah, the missing history is because the whole page was renamed also Mar 25 12:35:14 !google define:spiderpig Mar 25 12:35:16 Sorry, no search results were found. Mar 25 12:35:29 http://www.spiderpig.org/ Mar 25 12:35:54 * SpeedEvil ponders a robot spiderpig. Mar 25 12:35:56 jeez, project name changes are very disturbing Mar 25 12:35:59 http://www.toomuchfreetime.com/ Mar 25 12:36:12 what about cybermancy Mar 25 12:36:16 openmoko: 03thomas * r4246 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/configure.ac: opkg: fix configure check for big-endian systems Mar 25 12:39:19 openmoko: 03thomas * r4247 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/README: opkg: add README content, including website and mailing list details Mar 25 12:39:25 "sabertooth foggily redevelop hysterophore assort mischaracterization saccharomycetes proctodaeal" Mar 25 12:49:48 freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r98 10/trunk/software/pyneod/gsm_sample.py: fixed the names in the sample to meet OTAPI Mar 25 12:51:41 do we have a full dbus api yet? Mar 25 12:52:11 ScaredyCat: what for? Mar 25 12:52:39 everything... gsm, bt, gps... blah blah... Mar 25 12:52:47 I mena in om emdete not your stuff :) Mar 25 12:52:58 s/mena/mean/ Mar 25 12:52:58 ScaredyCat meant: I mean in om emdete not your stuff :) Mar 25 12:53:10 ScaredyCat: hopefully that would be the same one day Mar 25 12:53:40 did mickeyl fix the problem with building dinge? Mar 25 12:53:43 ScaredyCat: gps is gypsy, bt has dbus, gsm is missing that Mar 25 12:54:00 ScaredyCat: libgsmd has to fix that for om Mar 25 12:54:28 'dinge' contains a prototype gsmd using dbus and that api moves towards otapi Mar 25 12:56:33 ScaredyCat: or.. what do you mean with 'fixing'? Mar 25 12:57:28 builiding it sucks your machine into the bowls of the earth and turns over its procesing power to the NSA, then it segfaults Mar 25 12:58:08 mickeyl was going bak through mtn to find where that started to happen Mar 25 12:58:27 will gypsy be dbus interface to the gps device in freerunner? Mar 25 12:58:42 ScaredyCat: look at #oe its being discussed Mar 25 12:58:50 zedstar: it should be a immediate fit, yes. Mar 25 12:59:25 emdete: ok good to know thanks Mar 25 13:00:25 XorA: but now we're using om's mtn! Mar 25 13:00:29 zedstar: problem are gui apps that use non-dbus, gpsd interface Mar 25 13:00:35 you have to push the fix Mar 25 13:01:04 or is zecke working directly on om's mtn? Mar 25 13:01:17 ScaredyCat: I think zecke pushed the fix this morning .tw time Mar 25 13:02:09 emdete: yeh sure......been playing around with dbus and isnt too hard to learn though Mar 25 13:02:45 k, testing now Mar 25 13:03:18 zedstar: even if dbus does not implement everything i would like to have it's the best choice here. it really makes live easy Mar 25 13:04:16 oh my Mar 25 13:04:22 emdete: i agree Mar 25 13:07:17 ram gone... Mar 25 13:07:21 cpu nearly gone Mar 25 13:11:12 ScaredyCat: did you rebnuild edje-natice? Mar 25 13:11:22 ahh Mar 25 13:45:15 just Mar 25 13:45:15 edje_cc -v -id ../data -fd ../data \ Mar 25 13:45:15 | ../data/theme.edc \ Mar 25 13:45:15 | ../data/theme.edj Mar 25 13:45:15 | make[2]: *** [theme.edj] Segmentation fault Mar 25 13:45:20 now XorA Mar 25 13:50:58 ScaredyCat: well blame zecke he told me it worked :-) Mar 25 13:51:31 ScaredyCat: I have never managed to build anything E based, its such poor quality code :-( Mar 25 13:51:42 lol.. Mar 25 13:51:52 I've built it a few times... Mar 25 13:52:29 are there any decisions made yet how the system manages gps? Like a scenario where a app signals that it needs gps and some magic makes gpsd start and subsequently power up the gps device and on neo start gllin. I think this leads to a general system which starts backround deamons if apps need any functionality provided by them. Maemo has something called gpsmgr which seems to do something like this... Mar 25 13:52:43 it does seem to get upset more often, but I think hte bigger problem is that noone seems to care that much about fixing those issues. The devs have their own environments Mar 25 13:53:32 I was hoping to meat raster on this trip, but I think Ill leave just before he returns Mar 25 13:53:51 DPThought: I would think that it's be good is apps just said "I wan to know what my gps coordinates and altitude are" and the gps 'system' provides it. Mar 25 13:53:52 please dont meat him :P Mar 25 13:53:59 XorA: meat ? You perv Mar 25 13:54:03 we need him to work Mar 25 13:54:04 not be eaten Mar 25 13:54:13 heheheheheheheheh Mar 25 13:55:03 ScaredyCat: yea. But i think it would be haed to do this without gpsd. since it's pretty much standard. Mar 25 13:55:49 ScaredyCat: maybe let gpsd do the magic when someone opens a socket and shut it all down when the last socket is released. Mar 25 13:55:52 I think the world of GPS on linux is so small at the moment if we made a new standard we could probably lead Mar 25 13:56:02 true Mar 25 13:56:04 everyone who uses gpsd seems to express horror at it Mar 25 13:56:29 I was thinking more along the lines of location bsed stuf, the location could come from tringulation or gps, or best guess type thing... Mar 25 13:56:32 and it seems to be nothing more than a NMEA dump via TCP. AFAIk Mar 25 13:56:59 ScaredyCat: ggeneric positioning would be cool, but build in layers Mar 25 13:57:04 so it might not be 100% all the time but it would give , at worst, a general location Mar 25 13:57:12 yes.. Mar 25 13:57:51 if a gps signal is available then it should be priority 1.. unless an app only wants a general location ... eg a suburb Mar 25 13:58:39 ScaredyCat: in UK voda phone broadcast landline area code as Cell Broadcasts, its good for quick and nasty which section of town am I in :-) Mar 25 13:59:04 some apps need the full NMEA stream. with velocity and all that stuff. But as far as i understood NEMA we could easyli inject position datas drived from cell positioning. Pumping this all out via tcp to be compatible would not be hard at all. And apps that only need a update on the position some times could use a small dbus interface Mar 25 13:59:19 yes, that would be useful, but you cna't do : if vodafone do if t-mobile do blah... Mar 25 13:59:26 although,.... scripting it might be nice Mar 25 14:00:38 i could imagine a small multiplexer/proxy that gets the information feed in by many sources and delivers them to the apps. Mar 25 14:00:48 yes... Mar 25 14:00:58 skyhook's sdk is pretty good for location but it is not open source....there are some maemo libraries for it Mar 25 14:01:19 gpsd seems to do something like that but is not very dynamic. Maybe patch gps so it could be feas NEMA streams via UDP... Mar 25 14:01:29 I'm also thinking of an app to report cell id's + gps coordinates... to a server to build location stuff based on that Mar 25 14:01:29 when i tried it found outside my house....but im pretty sure they stole the location from wigle cos i uploaded stuff there before Mar 25 14:01:44 there are some db's but getting them is pretty hard Mar 25 14:02:44 ScaredyCat: pyneod contains that stuff already ;) Mar 25 14:03:13 yea, but if I can't build an image... Mar 25 14:03:30 ScaredyCat: i don't know about that. is this py or e related? Mar 25 14:03:38 e Mar 25 14:03:50 * ScaredyCat points up Mar 25 14:03:51 is mickeyl around? Mar 25 14:04:05 not seen hom Mar 25 14:04:08 him Mar 25 14:04:12 !seen mickeyl Mar 25 14:04:13 ScaredyCat, mickeyl is right here! Mar 25 14:04:18 useless bot Mar 25 14:04:26 !lastspoke mickeyl Mar 25 14:04:28 mickeyl last uttered a word on #openmoko 23 hours, 10 minutes ago. Mar 25 14:04:36 phew... Mar 25 14:15:09 emdete: neat! It even collects data on udp. I hear me cream in joy 'no more silly gllin pipe!' *g* Mar 25 14:17:11 23 hours ago? has mickeyl just disappeared off the face of the earth? Mar 25 14:17:18 :q Mar 25 14:17:30 summatusmentis: it takes a while to fly brazil to germany Mar 25 14:17:33 naa, he's a lazy mofo :P Mar 25 14:17:43 XorA: that's fair Mar 25 14:17:44 summatusmentis: so I guess he has left the face of the earth :-) Mar 25 14:17:52 he's already back afaik XorA Mar 25 14:18:01 may be mickeyl disapeared in a snow-storm here in germany... Mar 25 14:18:23 too many e's Mar 25 14:18:32 that's what I reckon Mar 25 14:19:15 E's are good, E's are good Mar 25 14:19:42 * XorA can see FreeRunner booting to some Shamen music :-) Mar 25 14:19:48 s/see/hear/ Mar 25 14:20:34 it's not when it's not building Mar 25 14:20:56 i wounder what the -gsm_cell options does for gllin. Does anyone know? Mar 25 14:25:38 DPThought: i believe it gives gllin a better estimation of the initial position (before it catches any satellite signal) Mar 25 14:26:56 DPThought: AGPS? Mar 25 14:27:42 emdete: anything via gsm or just for a clue where it's position is via Country Code and so on? Mar 25 14:27:48 somebody able to help with qvga theming mess? Mar 25 14:27:54 #1283 Mar 25 14:28:03 hey raster Mar 25 14:28:22 XorA: yoooow Mar 25 14:28:34 DPThought: i'm not shure. there are a lot of things you can do to speedup the initial fix... Mar 25 14:28:46 raster: so you not back in .tw this week then? Mar 25 14:29:30 dcordes, that second attachement looks like the window manager is not running Mar 25 14:30:32 thos, possibly it didn't start again after I closed it. see comment Mar 25 14:31:22 it's not only matchbox-wm-2 but also the gtk theme Mar 25 14:31:22 complete mess.. Mar 25 14:31:24 XorA: no... wsomeone thought i was going to be? Mar 25 14:32:03 raster: I hoped you might be Mar 25 14:32:04 thos, integration of the small icons into normal icon package was a step in the right direction. thanks again Mar 25 14:32:20 dcordes, no problem Mar 25 14:32:51 dcordes, you don't specify in your bug what errors exist Mar 25 14:32:57 XorA: i'm still in .br Mar 25 14:33:01 if not i'd be in .au Mar 25 14:33:08 not that it matters much one way or another Mar 25 14:33:56 trust me to get sucked over here when no-one else is about Mar 25 14:34:35 thos, that is because it is kind of hard to describe since the whole look changes after I reboot or restart X Mar 25 14:35:14 ok, I'm pretty sure I broke the oe rules there :P Mar 25 14:35:56 ScaredyCat: well, imho, breaking the OE is not that difficult Mar 25 14:36:10 s/OE/OE rules Mar 25 14:36:25 sometimes you see the blue window decorations (some standard theme), sometimes you see no theme at all (see first post, you see X background instead of window frames). matchbox-panel-2 doesn't show up at all. only when I start it Mar 25 14:36:59 dcordes: sometime on boot matchbx-wm segfaults Mar 25 14:37:01 dcordes, sounds like your session script is broken to be honest Mar 25 14:37:09 XorA?! Mar 25 14:37:15 dcordes: that would explain what you see Mar 25 14:37:15 XorA: they did it deliberately, they're all avoiding you ;) Mar 25 14:37:39 XorA, I've never had mb-wm segfault Mar 25 14:37:52 thos: your lucky, does it regularly for loads of peoplke Mar 25 14:38:14 those are evil people.... Mar 25 14:38:20 * XorA isnt evil Mar 25 14:38:21 XorA, thos pH5 was able to reproduce the whole picture w/ different machine and build Mar 25 14:38:23 * ScaredyCat hasn't suffered that either Mar 25 14:38:32 XorA: AAHHAHAHAHAHA Mar 25 14:38:41 XorA: 01 or 02 Mar 25 14:38:49 ScaredyCat: 02 Mar 25 14:39:01 well, there's your problem... Mar 25 14:39:15 send my your 02, I'll double check it for you :P Mar 25 14:39:19 me Mar 25 14:39:19 raster: ah well, at least I found real beer, I get drunk instead of socialise Mar 25 14:39:31 hahahaha Mar 25 14:39:36 ScaredyCat: dont have an O2 at moment, turns out mine was busted Mar 25 14:39:38 XorA, it'd be nice to get a stack trace then Mar 25 14:39:39 hint - go to carnegies Mar 25 14:39:44 decent beer Mar 25 14:39:48 lots of booze Mar 25 14:39:51 XorA, something must be very wrong for mb-wm to be segfaulting Mar 25 14:39:55 lively pub Mar 25 14:39:56 ScaredyCat: dont have an O2 at moment, turns out mine was busted/ Mar 25 14:39:57 people speak english Mar 25 14:40:04 carnegies where? Mar 25 14:40:50 :o Mar 25 14:41:22 thos: it would be nice for it to happen consitently so I can :-) Mar 25 14:41:39 thos: its one of those things it does it once, then not again Mar 25 14:42:14 any community people interested in a working qvga UI present? Mar 25 14:42:47 XorA, it sounds suprising because of the amount of testing mb-wm-1 went through in Nokia Mar 25 14:42:58 dcordes: what device are you using ? Mar 25 14:43:08 XorA, like, to hell and back Mar 25 14:43:13 helsinki of course :-) Mar 25 14:43:51 XorA: on an-ho road Mar 25 14:44:05 ScaredyCat, htc blueangel. you get the same result on htc magician and I assume on all other qvga devices Mar 25 14:44:05 raster: cheers I will look out for it Mar 25 14:44:13 maybe you can even reproduce it Mar 25 14:44:25 XorA: just jump in a cab ans say "anh ho liu, carnegies" and u're fine Mar 25 14:44:25 :) Mar 25 14:44:26 when setting up your build for qvga and try it on fic-gta* Mar 25 14:44:43 raster: heh heh Mar 25 14:45:02 hrmmm... Mar 25 14:45:12 I has no ram Mar 25 14:45:56 ScaredyCat, I will send you some when you can help ;p Mar 25 14:46:43 heheh Mar 25 14:47:08 no, it's e17 - it seems to want all the ram in the universe just to build a theme Mar 25 14:47:13 retarded... Mar 25 14:47:20 * ScaredyCat pokes and blames raster Mar 25 14:47:35 eh? Mar 25 14:47:37 damn old enlightenment... Mar 25 14:48:46 31608 raster 18 0 7908 4596 1840 T 0 0.2 0:00.27 edje_cc Mar 25 14:49:01 thats edje_cc building my current theme for e17 Mar 25 14:49:07 4.6m rss,1.8m of it shared Mar 25 14:49:23 edje_cc here eats 3G of memory before segfaulting :-) Mar 25 14:49:30 XorA: wtf? Mar 25 14:49:41 edje_cc'ing what? Mar 25 14:50:34 raster: it seems OE has caused something funny to happen to edje_cc talk to zecke or mickeyl they know more Mar 25 14:51:05 oh yea Mar 25 14:51:09 i saw zecke's thing Mar 25 14:51:16 raster: from what zecke says it recurses for ever, runs out of memeory dies Mar 25 14:51:20 there is some loop where a .so seems to have gotten confused Mar 25 14:51:25 thaqt'd make sense Mar 25 14:51:31 but the reaosn for that makes no sense Mar 25 14:51:39 the actual trace is not what the code does Mar 25 14:51:44 raster: glamo has what throughput? 1mb/sec bus-speed? Mar 25 14:51:50 somehow the .so has been mis-instaleld into the wrong dir Mar 25 14:51:59 or dlopen is fucked with OE Mar 25 14:52:05 edistar: 7.3 Mar 25 14:52:21 thx Mar 25 14:52:31 How's power management working on the Neo1973 with recent images these days? Mar 25 14:52:40 raster: zecke said he checked in the fix, I shall double check tomorrow Mar 25 14:52:48 no CPU power in the apartment Mar 25 14:53:03 orospakr: as bad as it ever was Mar 25 14:53:09 ugh. Mar 25 14:55:21 raster:7,3 mbit? Mar 25 14:55:26 what sections of europe use the 900Mhz band? Mar 25 14:56:01 summatusmentis: all afaik Mar 25 14:56:28 so a us version of the FreeRunner would be pretty unusable in europe? Mar 25 14:56:48 yes Mar 25 14:57:06 it will work on Orange and thats about it Mar 25 15:00:23 XorA: haven't heard of the fix yet -0 but i havent seen it myself. i seem to be immune:) Mar 25 15:00:34 * summatusmentis is considering a backpacking trip around europe in a year and wants a working phone :) Mar 25 15:00:48 edistar: 7.3 megabytes per second. i never refer to anythign in mbit unless its network traffic Mar 25 15:01:01 thx again Mar 25 15:02:58 :) Mar 25 15:03:06 7.3 mb;/s is pretty low in gfx land Mar 25 15:07:09 * ScaredyCat is also immune... Mar 25 15:07:14 ... from the 'fix' Mar 25 15:08:47 no cat is immune from the fix Mar 25 15:09:03 * doc|home points at ScaredyCat's testicles Mar 25 15:09:10 snip snip! Mar 25 15:20:10 I haven't yet updated my gsm firmware, but my neo actually works with my brand new att sim Mar 25 15:20:34 pleasant surprise Mar 25 15:35:13 TimRiker: greetings Mar 25 15:36:27 moin prpplague. what are you up to these days? Mar 25 15:36:52 TimRiker: still working for AML doing handheld design Mar 25 15:37:28 TimRiker: mainly BSP and board bringups, don't do much userland stuff Mar 25 15:37:52 heard of a Luis Bonilla who I guess works for some texmex cell company? Mar 25 15:39:15 TimRiker: hmm, doesn't ring a bell Mar 25 15:39:21 TimRiker: but i'm terrible with names Mar 25 15:39:30 telcel perhaps? dunno. it was a long shot. Mar 25 15:39:56 TimRiker: seems like i might have seen the name on a mailing list, but i can't be sure Mar 25 15:40:07 TimRiker: why? Mar 25 15:49:09 I just got a note about contacting him. interested in 2-way live video over cellular in mexico. Mar 25 15:49:40 TimRiker: interesting.... you doing embedded dev again? Mar 25 15:50:10 on the side, yeah. Mar 25 15:50:34 TimRiker: ahh ok Mar 25 15:51:01 TimRiker: i figured after the TI deal you'd gotten a little burned out with the embedded stuff Mar 25 15:51:24 hello Mar 25 15:52:04 I'm trying to run openmoko on qemu, when I type qemu-run, the qemu window appear but stay black. Mar 25 15:52:19 do I need to make all? Mar 25 15:52:55 it's running, but it's looonng: Running task 156 of 5445 Mar 25 15:57:45 prpplague: nah. still pushing where I can. :) Mar 25 15:58:15 TimRiker: if the money and hours are good, can;t say i blame you Mar 25 15:58:44 heh Mar 25 16:08:46 how big is all the stuff that you need to compile openmoko? Mar 25 16:08:55 ie, what gets fetched by monotone? Mar 25 16:35:55 cb22 about 10GB - try to have 15 GB of free hard drive space Mar 25 16:41:00 mathroc_: Are you compiling stuff? Doesn't sound to me like you're actually running qemu Mar 25 16:41:09 kristian-m: i mean source code? it is actually download 10gb of stuff O-o? Mar 25 16:42:37 cb22 nop, but when you compile an image you'll need that much Mar 25 16:43:28 ah ok. Mar 25 16:43:41 here in south africa 1gb of international bandwidth costs $10 or so :( Mar 25 16:44:07 more than 10gb Mar 25 16:44:19 of disk space needed Mar 25 16:44:22 to build Mar 25 16:44:26 cb22 they differentiate between international and local bandwith?! - wow Mar 25 16:44:44 make sure you have rm_work in your condi Mar 25 16:44:51 s/condi/config/ Mar 25 16:44:51 ScaredyCat meant: make sure you have rm_work in your config Mar 25 16:45:13 kristian-m: yep. a 30gb local account costs $15 or so. a 10g international account costs $60 or so Mar 25 16:45:36 ScaredyCat: whats a du -m on a completely clean tree? Mar 25 16:46:21 and if you intend to build any of the e17 stuff you need 10 trillion sqateggabytes of ram Mar 25 16:46:39 cb22: no idea, i don't use rm_work I keep everything, forever Mar 25 16:46:53 * cb22 pats his raid0, 4gb of ram and core 2 quad Mar 25 16:46:54 I had to buy a new disk for my laptop Mar 25 16:46:58 * cb22 wakes up Mar 25 16:47:07 pffft that's not enough ram! Mar 25 16:47:16 not for the e stuff ;) Mar 25 16:47:22 ScaredyCat: of, sorry, thats just 1 module Mar 25 16:47:27 i have 16 of them :p Mar 25 16:47:39 .... in dream land.... Mar 25 16:47:52 and I have a pet wookie Mar 25 16:48:11 * cb22 wants to get a dual cpu motherboard and 2x quad core xeons Mar 25 16:49:49 well, at least you'll be able to turn the heating down Mar 25 16:50:49 not really, i'll attach the heating to it to cool it down Mar 25 17:00:01 time to kick oe again Mar 25 17:03:20 i thought its always that time Mar 25 17:08:33 heya~ Mar 25 17:08:47 hi Mar 25 17:46:53 XorA|gone: there? Mar 25 17:47:12 mickeyl: did you get my email? Mar 25 17:47:30 yes Mar 25 17:47:40 marked as 'important' Mar 25 17:47:47 alright, just wanted to make sure Mar 25 17:47:49 will replay asap Mar 25 17:47:52 reply, even Mar 25 17:48:02 not terribly pressing, but sort of Mar 25 17:48:06 whenever you've got time Mar 25 17:49:53 mickeyl: yo yo Mar 25 17:51:32 hey raster! feeling better? Mar 25 17:51:41 mickeyl: mostly Mar 25 17:51:44 still have a nasty cough Mar 25 17:51:47 and a bitof the runs Mar 25 17:55:23 raster: suffering from glamositus? Mar 25 17:55:28 no Mar 25 17:55:37 some fodo poinsoning or tropical thing going around Mar 25 17:55:45 a bunch of people got it Mar 25 17:55:56 was laid up totally non functional for about 2 days Mar 25 17:56:05 and have been on partial steam for a few more Mar 25 17:56:07 no change there then :P Mar 25 17:56:16 * ScaredyCat giggles and hides Mar 25 17:56:31 ScaredyCat: :-P Mar 25 17:58:13 you know the gta01 needs some urgent fixes... Mar 25 17:58:34 * cb22 puts a core 2 duo on the gta01. problem solved Mar 25 17:58:46 it's getting silly now... Mar 25 17:59:01 I mean - it's useable as an everyday phone..... Mar 25 17:59:07 someone needs to break it quick Mar 25 17:59:09 and then we all have to tape our phones to a car battery Mar 25 17:59:10 :P Mar 25 17:59:29 ahven: i was thinking of using the built in v8 to power it :p Mar 25 17:59:53 * ScaredyCat has a 'bonus battery' Mar 25 18:03:48 i also don't get that boot to x failure... Mar 25 18:03:49 isnt there a way to extract energy from human blood? Mar 25 18:04:19 I think you have to drink it... Mar 25 18:04:29 heh Mar 25 18:04:32 but it only works at night Mar 25 18:04:51 flap flap Mar 25 18:05:03 (sound of a vampyre passing by) Mar 25 18:05:12 riiiigght.... Mar 25 18:05:24 someone get the doctors ;) Mar 25 18:05:42 doctors? what we need is silver crosses now Mar 25 18:05:44 :D Mar 25 18:06:13 and steaks..... mmmmmm steak .... arrrgggggg Mar 25 18:14:30 ScaredyCat, Were you using the nightly build from yesterday or your own images? Mar 25 18:14:40 Today's doesn't have it. :) Mar 25 18:14:46 my own Mar 25 18:14:57 I've never used an official one Mar 25 18:15:00 ;0 Mar 25 18:15:02 I'm a bad person Mar 25 18:15:12 There's nothing wrong with that. :P Mar 25 18:15:32 unofficially ;) Mar 25 18:16:29 anyone know how on target an april release is, since we've not heard any official news in a month? Mar 25 18:16:50 hmm. if you're on the mailing lists, there has been tons of official news Mar 25 18:17:41 hmmm - i thought i signed up, but maybe it didn't get through right Mar 25 18:17:45 i'll have to try again Mar 25 18:19:14 yeah, we've all got our, had them for months :P Mar 25 18:19:27 i can't remember which i supposedly signed up to last time - i guess announce would be the 'better' one? Mar 25 18:19:43 community list probably Mar 25 18:21:08 announce is dead :( Mar 25 18:21:25 ah right - that may be the one i chose last time then :p Mar 25 18:22:04 yep - the email i just recieved says it was Mar 25 18:22:07 ah well Mar 25 18:25:32 mickeyl, hi, your view of working on an ophoned implementation now still holds? being too early atm Mar 25 18:25:32 I've heard bad noises about the performance of the display ins unlight Mar 25 18:25:35 is this true? Mar 25 18:26:35 Sup3rkiddo: hard to say actually. we need an ophoned, but i still have no idea which of the four options we should choose as basis Mar 25 18:26:48 unfortunately ixonos did not yet comment theirs Mar 25 18:26:59 so right now we have a) gsmd b) pygsmd c) Qt Mar 25 18:27:06 Qt? Mar 25 18:27:34 the qt muxer and gsmd Mar 25 18:27:42 ah..ok Mar 25 18:27:46 which is probably the most advanced one Mar 25 18:27:49 and the most stable one Mar 25 18:27:54 but ... politically... mmhr Mar 25 18:27:59 right Mar 25 18:28:00 I'm pretty unfamilar w/ all three of those options, is there any way they could be tied into HAL? Mar 25 18:28:00 :) Mar 25 18:28:02 dunno whether we really want to settle ont hat Mar 25 18:28:02 or not really Mar 25 18:28:22 summatusmentis: why should the phone daemon be tied into HAL? Mar 25 18:28:33 mickeyl: well using it and adding openphoned dbus hooks may never go upstream Mar 25 18:28:38 s/HAL/DBUS ? Mar 25 18:28:41 whihc makes it also a technically bad move Mar 25 18:28:51 tho thats politically related Mar 25 18:29:04 I'm probably confused, never mind Mar 25 18:29:05 mickeyl, just curious, whats the general consensus of the core team on this Mar 25 18:29:07 raster: i know. that's why i prefer another solution Mar 25 18:29:19 Sup3rkiddo: there's hardly any consensus ;) Mar 25 18:29:24 i guess it boils down to Mar 25 18:29:30 take one and make it work w/ fs.o API Mar 25 18:29:34 then lets go from there Mar 25 18:29:36 i don't think qtopia's gsmd/muxer is an option. it qiut different from libgsmd or pygsmd Mar 25 18:29:42 well Mar 25 18:29:48 i have been told that it takes 2 days Mar 25 18:29:53 to have it fs.o compliant Mar 25 18:30:08 and i believe this assassement Mar 25 18:30:13 since it comes from one very familiar with all that Mar 25 18:30:49 ideally we want some fs.o compliant implementation when freerunner opens to the grandpas Mar 25 18:31:19 yep Mar 25 18:31:26 even earlier, actually Mar 25 18:31:42 this is really the foundation for people making their own thing Mar 25 18:31:49 and we want to support that Mar 25 18:31:51 when I was browsing around fs.o is there really something to compy w/ there? Mar 25 18:32:01 comply* Mar 25 18:32:18 well, the dbus API Mar 25 18:32:20 spec Mar 25 18:32:28 checkout the svn and take a look Mar 25 18:32:58 mickeyl, is the ixonos implementation closed, google isnt helping me :( Mar 25 18:33:24 I'll do that later this afternoon. Mar 25 18:34:11 Sup3rkiddo: it's supposed to be open. they released their first version months ago and the 2nd version is supposed to land in fs.o svn soon Mar 25 18:34:16 so the ophoned project boils down to making a dbus api for either gsmd, pygsmd, or gsmd/muxer ? Mar 25 18:34:29 I'm trying to wrap my head around this, sorry Mar 25 18:35:01 mickeyl, isnt it that gsmd2 on which there was some discussions some time ago, i especially remember cute little documentations Mar 25 18:35:25 summatusmentis: well, it's not just adding the API to one of the options. phone daemon needs to do some more stuff, but yes, that's the most important aspect Mar 25 18:35:29 Sup3rkiddo: yap Mar 25 18:35:33 i think a muxer is needed anyway. and i would suggest to use pygsmd/gsm0710muxd for prototype and libgsmd/kernel-muxer for later Mar 25 18:36:01 emdete, and porting pygsmd, as you said, is no no now Mar 25 18:36:03 :D Mar 25 18:36:14 Sup3rkiddo: 'porting' means what? Mar 25 18:36:20 mickeyl: then, as such, would it be possible to split the project into fixing the phone daemon, and providing the api Mar 25 18:36:23 ? Mar 25 18:36:29 emdete, pygsmd into a C equivalent Mar 25 18:36:58 summatusmentis: my first plan was to split the phone daemon into frontend and backend Mar 25 18:37:05 Sup3rkiddo: if libgsmd has to be rewritten, that would be more or less the same: learn from errors in both and implement it in C Mar 25 18:37:08 * raster is happy to leave the whole middleware thing to others - just as long as it doesn't suck Mar 25 18:37:09 the frontend is the same for all backends Mar 25 18:37:14 raster: ;) Mar 25 18:37:25 and the backend we could then chose between different options Mar 25 18:37:26 i'll use whatever is there Mar 25 18:37:28 keep it simple Mar 25 18:37:30 make it not suck Mar 25 18:37:32 raster: as long as you do fast grafik i do some work on middleware :D Mar 25 18:37:32 make it work Mar 25 18:37:34 :) Mar 25 18:37:37 and as long as it works :D Mar 25 18:37:47 mickeyl: frontend == dbus, backend == , yes? Mar 25 18:37:56 raster: that's exactly the goal of pygsmd... Mar 25 18:38:06 summatusmentis: yes. however, by now i think this would be overengineering, since at the end of the day, we only need one backend Mar 25 18:38:16 bbl... eating Mar 25 18:38:47 mickeyl, theres also phoneKit, from what i see its better than libmokogsmd2 Mar 25 18:38:59 mickeyl: so at this point, this becomes a single project, providing the frontend to a chosen backend, and not making it higher level Mar 25 18:39:10 summatusmentis: yea Mar 25 18:39:15 emdete: a worthy goal :) Mar 25 18:39:31 Sup3rkiddo: phonekit is just a tiny wrapper on top of libgsmd. it implements 10% of the fs.o API Mar 25 18:39:44 the major problem is that libgsmd in its present form is Mar 25 18:39:46 hmm Mar 25 18:39:51 mickeyl, yep i saw that, 10% being voicecall stuff Mar 25 18:39:52 different peoploe have different opinions Mar 25 18:39:56 alright, I've gotta go, I'll be back later, will someone log this for me? Mar 25 18:39:57 taipei thinks it's solid Mar 25 18:40:02 i learned a lot from libgsmd :D Mar 25 18:40:06 as a student Mar 25 18:40:12 != tapiei thinks it's unstable and has design issues Mar 25 18:40:13 maybe gsmd just needs a solid code review Mar 25 18:40:16 no Mar 25 18:40:17 and cleanups Mar 25 18:40:19 it's more inherent Mar 25 18:40:25 dunno Mar 25 18:40:25 it's designed without the idea of MUXing behind Mar 25 18:40:28 its like born evil Mar 25 18:40:28 i have never looked at it Mar 25 18:40:33 i wishj to keepmy mind unpolluted Mar 25 18:40:53 back to my kbd hell... Mar 25 18:40:54 it needs to be much simpler. the asynchronous design is way too flakey with gsm modems Mar 25 18:40:57 raster: righto ;) Mar 25 18:41:11 anyways, dinner time here Mar 25 18:41:14 * raster curses the evil that is assuming all apps are gtk,... which is what the current kbd does Mar 25 18:44:23 ... Mar 25 18:44:46 hello :) Mar 25 18:45:02 ready Mar 25 18:45:03 so why not qt gsmd then? since it's p) advanced q) gpl code 6) available now Mar 25 18:45:34 raster: how is your implementation of your moschi-mockup going? :> Mar 25 18:45:34 or has it mutated to illume? Mar 25 18:45:38 * raster points at mickey|dinner Mar 25 18:45:43 edistar: it's not mine Mar 25 18:46:02 edistar: frederic bohler & friends (crazy frenchmen) did it Mar 25 18:46:03 :) Mar 25 18:46:10 it has not mutated' Mar 25 18:46:20 ok:) Mar 25 18:46:24 i dont have any choice in the ui design Mar 25 18:46:30 Sup3rkiddo: what're your thoughts? Mar 25 18:46:38 so dont bother asking me for anything ui-design-wise for moko Mar 25 18:46:44 raster: no choice? Mar 25 18:46:49 nup Mar 25 18:46:59 i'm just a programmer Mar 25 18:47:06 according to those @ moko Mar 25 18:47:10 implement as told Mar 25 18:47:31 summatusmentis, i dont think i have the experience to comment, but we need to get some work done for fs.o Mar 25 18:47:50 Sup3rkiddo: I'm worried about the same thing Mar 25 18:47:54 * Sup3rkiddo loved libgsmd though :P Mar 25 18:47:58 you're an artist;) no seriously, will the app menu stay the way it is in the video(illume)? Mar 25 18:48:13 I haven't looked at any OM code, ever, and I feel like I should already know the gsmd options before trying this Mar 25 18:48:15 i'm tried of arguing the point - so i've given up arguing the point Mar 25 18:48:29 edistar: not according to sean/wolfgang/will Mar 25 18:48:36 i'm just a programmer Mar 25 18:48:41 * raster shrugs Mar 25 18:48:47 summatusmentis, you might find this useful http://unadventure.wordpress.com/2007/10/28/qpe-430-plus-qemu/ Mar 25 18:48:50 i have grown tired of the argument Mar 25 18:49:13 raster: so implement an alternative as well .... Mar 25 18:49:44 then when everyone dumps the standard ui for yours, you can say "ner ner you poopy heads" Mar 25 18:49:48 if you implement a beatiful alternative the community will support it Mar 25 18:49:54 aye Mar 25 18:50:15 * ScaredyCat slaps raster Mar 25 18:50:29 missing my crucial point! Mar 25 18:50:29 * raster spanks ScaredyCat Mar 25 18:50:29 can i slap him as well? Mar 25 18:50:35 yes Mar 25 18:50:44 if you implement a beautiful alternative the community will support it Mar 25 18:50:47 [2008-03-25 18:26:44] but ... politically... mmhr Mar 25 18:50:50 ~lart raster just for the heck of it Mar 25 18:50:50 * apt whips out a sword and chops raster just in half for the heck of it Mar 25 18:50:50 oops Mar 25 18:50:58 raster: so implement an alternative as well .... Mar 25 18:51:02 then when everyone dumps the standard ui for yours, you can say "ner ner you poopy heads" Mar 25 18:51:13 ScaredyCat: in what spare time? Mar 25 18:51:23 any Mar 25 18:51:25 ScaredyCat: until i have that time - it wont be happening Mar 25 18:51:28 i dont have spare time Mar 25 18:51:33 Sup3rkiddo, or anyone: what are the political issues w/ qtmuxer? Mar 25 18:51:35 it literally doesnt exist Mar 25 18:51:36 don't you have that magic poers of manipulating time and space :> Mar 25 18:51:41 powers Mar 25 18:51:57 * Sup3rkiddo blinks Mar 25 18:52:00 in reality if the community sees a better interface it *will* dump the default. Mar 25 18:52:15 i would hope so Mar 25 18:52:16 * cb22 stabs gradients Mar 25 18:52:17 we won't be hard pressed not to dump it :> Mar 25 18:52:19 and i'd liek to do that Mar 25 18:52:20 as emdete already did Mar 25 18:52:30 and there's nothing the OM guys can do. Mar 25 18:52:42 but as the pwoers be - i am paid to implement their ideas - not mine Mar 25 18:52:49 yes, emdete's work is good, just too incomplete... Mar 25 18:52:51 i am merely an "awesome programmer" Mar 25 18:53:04 it needs all the app too, if it really wants to be a contenter Mar 25 18:53:04 irespective of the fact i told them the exact opposite before i even agreedtojoin Mar 25 18:53:17 * raster shrugs again Mar 25 18:53:26 they like to box peoplein Mar 25 18:53:27 raster: we didn't say you were awesome, now get back to work... ;) Mar 25 18:53:29 you live ina small box Mar 25 18:53:34 u are just a programmer Mar 25 18:53:43 ScaredyCat: hehehhe Mar 25 18:53:49 i didn't say that either :) Mar 25 18:53:53 never mind Mar 25 18:54:02 i'll be trumpeting a "i told you so" soon enough Mar 25 18:54:16 i have a long listof "i told you so"'s to my name Mar 25 18:54:22 mickey|dinner: ping me when you get back please Mar 25 18:54:23 i seem to accumulate them Mar 25 18:54:23 :D Mar 25 18:54:50 raster, pick one of the 4 gsm choices and lets see if it holds Mar 25 18:55:12 Sup3rkiddo: i tend to stick to telling you so when i actually know what i'm talking about Mar 25 18:55:17 dont ask me about gsm stuff :) Mar 25 18:55:19 don't know Mar 25 18:55:20 :) Mar 25 18:56:13 hehe...which is quite unlike me Mar 25 18:56:36 Sup3rkiddo: told you so. Mar 25 18:56:45 lol Mar 25 18:56:46 ah, can someone answer here why EDGE wasn't/couldn't chosen instead of simple GPRS? Mar 25 18:56:56 well, people seem to dislike libgsmd... Mar 25 18:57:10 python is king, now go worship it Mar 25 18:57:24 hail the mighty snale Mar 25 18:57:26 *snake Mar 25 18:57:28 python, phillistines Mar 25 18:57:29 ahven: because of openess and availabiluty of gsm modules Mar 25 18:57:45 and other technical reasons Mar 25 18:57:46 s/modules/chipsets/ Mar 25 18:57:48 is there a list of differences between libgsmd, pygsmd, and qt? Mar 25 18:57:56 personally, and for no real valid reasons, qtgsm and gsmd2 seem to be the candidacte Mar 25 18:57:59 erm Mar 25 18:58:02 candidates Mar 25 18:58:15 AIUI Mar 25 18:58:34 * unknown_lamer writes cl-gsm to further complicate things Mar 25 18:59:22 unknown_lamer: that(may(be(a(bad(idea))))) Mar 25 18:59:39 personally I don;t have any of the 'trolltech are evil' baggage... Mar 25 18:59:54 I tend to agree, particularly if everything is gpl now Mar 25 19:00:01 the gpl is evil Mar 25 19:00:11 sorry, couldnt resist :p Mar 25 19:00:14 trolltech is evil, they make us walk to the lunchroom to eat food! Mar 25 19:00:17 Haven't you heard? They sacrifice kittens, using macbooks. Mar 25 19:00:17 Sup3rkiddo: are you still thinking about applying for ophoned? Mar 25 19:00:27 <3 macbooks Mar 25 19:00:29 SpeedEvil: ewww m-exp! Mar 25 19:00:36 SpeedEvil: those were banished in 1961 Mar 25 19:00:36 lpotter: what? thats shameful :( Mar 25 19:00:39 what? they sacrifce kittens who use macbooks? Mar 25 19:01:03 wosh as long as macbooks are safe Mar 25 19:01:07 no, the sacrifice kittens, by placing them inside the macbook, and then closing it Mar 25 19:01:10 they* Mar 25 19:01:11 anyhooo... personally I'd go for the qtgsm since it's been about and tested lots... Mar 25 19:01:26 cb22: obviously not macbook air's Mar 25 19:01:33 SpeedEvil: also, ((be may) (idea bad)) ;-) Mar 25 19:01:35 ScaredyCat: haven't you noticed that the new sharp front of macbook airs are designed as the blade of kitten guillotines? Mar 25 19:01:38 Sup3rkiddo: the other option would be for each of use to pick a gsm_option, and then make mickey|dinner decide :-) Mar 25 19:01:47 no, they go all emo with the airs Mar 25 19:01:52 ScaredyCat, in the spirit of "useable as an everyday phone", you have some recommendation for a reasonably recent somewhat operational image? Mar 25 19:01:54 new razor blades! Mar 25 19:01:55 no, macbooks are only for teh gayz Mar 25 19:01:57 :P Mar 25 19:02:04 SpeedEvil: no need for indicatives in sexp grammar and may as well group linked words and make the verb object be the first item ;-) Mar 25 19:02:10 mjr: mine!!! Mar 25 19:02:17 SpeedEvil: now to write a DSL interpreter macro to make that valid lisp Mar 25 19:02:24 unknown_lamer: :) Mar 25 19:02:27 ScaredyCat, yes indeed. Which one? :] Mar 25 19:02:34 * zedstar gets excited when he sees s-expressions Mar 25 19:02:43 Let us go forth! Mar 25 19:02:53 * cb22 thinks zedstar should get out more. Mar 25 19:02:59 well, I'm running todays, but the previous one is good and I tested it lots Mar 25 19:03:01 that is, are the newest currently known to be horribly broken Mar 25 19:03:54 todays works fine for me, but not tested that much, since it's only been there for about an hour Mar 25 19:03:58 ish Mar 25 19:04:02 yah Mar 25 19:04:26 thanks Mar 25 19:04:28 zedstar: I do too and I get to stare at them all day Mar 25 19:04:39 my cat even has a little pair of parentheses on her one side Mar 25 19:05:05 unknown_lamer yeh me too mostly when i can Mar 25 19:05:17 * ScaredyCat does a big full stop on unknown_lamer's desk Mar 25 19:05:39 ScaredyCat: this means war Mar 25 19:05:47 * unknown_lamer summons the army of undead emacsen Mar 25 19:06:24 alas, if only I had a FreeRunner so I could install army management software and guide them from the field Mar 25 19:06:25 unknown_lamer u shud read my binary s-expression paper it will seriously give u wood! Mar 25 19:06:35 binary sexp! Mar 25 19:06:50 * ScaredyCat bags n tags zedstar Mar 25 19:07:08 aren't they already kind of binary data? I mean ... you just reserve the ascii for [() ] and the symbols can be anything else Mar 25 19:07:14 or using || even have [() ] Mar 25 19:07:36 nice simple binary format that makes no assumptions about the encoding of the contents excepting five characters Mar 25 19:07:38 err, four Mar 25 19:07:39 unknown_lamer yeh...but i bit stuffed them in an unaligned way where each bit is data Mar 25 19:07:44 lpotter: how easily can qtgsm be 'extracted' Mar 25 19:08:06 not very easily Mar 25 19:08:06 zedstar: heathen Mar 25 19:08:22 summatusmentis, hehe Mar 25 19:08:37 although most of the routines are contained in library Mar 25 19:08:38 ok, that kinda leaves gsmd2 ? Mar 25 19:08:53 ScaredyCat: for any real reason? Mar 25 19:09:03 unkown_lamer but yeh writing pure s-expressions is kewl as it is already data......xml people will never get that Mar 25 19:09:09 I don't know anything about any of the options Mar 25 19:09:20 zedstar: yeah :-( I am very sad when I have to deal with xml Mar 25 19:09:23 man, fate...i rm'd gsmd2 a couple of weeks ago Mar 25 19:09:30 zedstar: the inability to represent graph structure with convenient notation ;lkdjsf;ljfd; Mar 25 19:09:39 can i has the link? Mar 25 19:09:43 * summatusmentis doesn't evev have openmoko set up Mar 25 19:09:45 well if it's not easy to extract qtgsm without too much trouble, people dislike libgsmd (no mux) and gsmd2 is the other option... Mar 25 19:09:45 zedstar: rage! rage! I want my damn #N= #N# notation damnit Mar 25 19:09:55 s/evev/even/ Mar 25 19:10:10 ScaredyCat: what about pygsmd? Mar 25 19:10:18 zedstar: a format that doesn't let me trivially serialize a data structure with cycles is worthless Mar 25 19:10:23 we couldnt get multiplexing working on the neos modem Mar 25 19:10:25 or is that what gsmd2 is? Mar 25 19:10:29 I'm not deciding this summatusmentis - I'm just yapping.... Mar 25 19:10:36 it's not for me to decide.. Mar 25 19:10:39 right, I know Mar 25 19:10:46 lpotter: does the qtopia image do gprs at all? ISTR it not doing it a few months ago Mar 25 19:10:49 I have issues with pygsmd... Mar 25 19:10:59 mainly the py bit Mar 25 19:11:03 lol Mar 25 19:11:03 good evening Mar 25 19:11:18 lpotter: what would tt think of adding dbus access to qtopia phone server? Mar 25 19:11:19 unknown_lamer: nope. GPRS needs multiplexing Mar 25 19:11:23 unknown_lamer anyone ported a lisp to openmoko btw....common lisp is kinda big isnt it? Mar 25 19:11:24 sorrows Mar 25 19:11:27 lpotter: i.e. - accept patches? Mar 25 19:11:31 zedstar: clisp should just run Mar 25 19:11:47 raster: there is the valuespace. Mar 25 19:11:49 zedstar: someone got it to run on the maemo and it is build for debian/arm sooo Mar 25 19:11:56 zedstar: and clisp uses like 3M on start Mar 25 19:11:59 lpotter: and that means.... ? :) Mar 25 19:12:03 raster: patches would be looked at Mar 25 19:12:04 was i wrong or what...i thought implementing the GSM specs would be easy Mar 25 19:12:05 zedstar: no threads but ... hey, that's not *such* a big deal Mar 25 19:12:18 zedstar: there is even nascent uffi/cffi for clisp *finally* Mar 25 19:12:40 unknown_lamer ah ok should be possible to get it running then Mar 25 19:12:56 zedstar: yep that shall be my first task once I get a damn freerunner in my hands Mar 25 19:13:02 raster: send the patches, and I will push for them. but they may not make it into 4.3 but its still possible for 4.4 Mar 25 19:13:04 zedstar: then see if mcclim still works on clisp Mar 25 19:13:04 lpotter: lets just say there are no technical issues with such things (froma style or implementation point of view) Mar 25 19:13:15 zedstar: failing that some gtk bindings (less nice but ... workable) Mar 25 19:13:15 Sup3rkiddo: it may be once a gsmd_option gets picked Mar 25 19:13:33 lpotter: would they be an issue because it may decouple qtopia phoneserver fromt he rest of qtopia and thus present as business issue? Mar 25 19:13:38 ScaredyCat: what is gsmd2 written in? Mar 25 19:13:43 it's kind of important that the gsmd gets picked soon... Mar 25 19:13:45 C++? Mar 25 19:13:47 iirc c Mar 25 19:13:51 or C? Mar 25 19:13:56 with dbus goodies iirc Mar 25 19:13:58 hang, I have the docs somewhrer Mar 25 19:14:05 docs were cute Mar 25 19:14:11 and no rush on inclusion Mar 25 19:14:11 unknown_lamer good......i kinda stop ported Chicken Scheme for now as i can just include the c files once compiled from scheme into autotools and build one app and distribute without dependency Mar 25 19:14:14 just the principle of it Mar 25 19:14:16 yes. well documented Mar 25 19:14:47 raster: no. Mar 25 19:14:51 cool Mar 25 19:14:59 thats what i was hoping to hear Mar 25 19:15:00 ScaredyCat, can you put up gsmd2 somewheere or post the link if you have it...me lost it :/ Mar 25 19:15:02 zedstar: I want to hack code on my device Mar 25 19:15:02 random mention: http://www.mulliner.org/h63xxlinux/mplexd-0.1.tar.gz Mar 25 19:15:08 sure Mar 25 19:15:16 1 sec Sup3rkiddo Mar 25 19:15:18 ok, gsmd2 has good docs, doesn't piss ScaredyCat off, seems to be a better option than qtgsmd(as it's not built in), and is written in a language I have some knowledge of Mar 25 19:15:20 it was multiplexing code for my old ipaq Mar 25 19:15:21 as long as its just a technical issue and a matter of time/timing... 'ksellent Mar 25 19:15:21 danke Mar 25 19:15:23 oh, and isn't libgsmd(which apparently people don't like) Mar 25 19:15:28 unknown_lamer u wanna run REPL on device? Mar 25 19:15:31 zedstar: I also intend to set up stuff to work with my bbdb database since ... my contact info is in there and the current contacts stuff looks like crap (wtf hardcoded fields! no custom fields! jesus!) Mar 25 19:15:42 zedstar: yeah why not. It has a nice screen and bt hid support :-) Mar 25 19:15:43 summatusmentis, i like libgsmd :D, but i am not a normal person Mar 25 19:15:56 raster: its more of a roadmapping thing Mar 25 19:16:01 cool Mar 25 19:16:08 http://buildhost.automated.it/ Mar 25 19:16:10 zedstar: my primary workstation was a 166Mhz pentium with 16M of RAM and I was ok with that I'm guessing this will be /slightly/ faster Mar 25 19:16:12 Sup3rkiddo: you familiar w/ the code at all? Mar 25 19:16:31 8x ram too Mar 25 19:16:33 unknown_lamer yeh is kinda kewl to have....the chicken scheme port includes the intrepreter so u can write stuff on device Mar 25 19:16:36 summatusmentis, yeah to some extent, got some my teeny weeny patches in Mar 25 19:16:47 one step ahead of me then Mar 25 19:16:47 http://buildhost.automated.it/gsmd-snapshot-2007-11-23-for-design-discussion.tar.gz Mar 25 19:16:49 zedstar: I've given up on Scheme for now Mar 25 19:16:51 raster: it would be easy to write something to do QValueSpace <=> dbus Mar 25 19:16:57 zedstar: r6rs mess and ahhh jesus christ Mar 25 19:17:10 zedstar: honestly just give me CL + call/cc and I will be a *very* happy man Mar 25 19:17:17 unknown_lamer yeh...chicken is not conforming to that is gonna stay minimal scheme Mar 25 19:17:18 ScaredyCat, thanks Mar 25 19:17:33 :) Mar 25 19:17:41 there is vsexplorer to look at valuespace values Mar 25 19:17:47 zedstar: neither are any of the major implementations except for PLT and Scheme48 ... but Riastradh is forking r5rs Scheme48 IIRC ... fun times are ahead Mar 25 19:18:00 v sex plorer Mar 25 19:18:08 o.o Mar 25 19:18:10 use the -d option :) Mar 25 19:18:11 u must have loved that name Mar 25 19:18:28 * Sup3rkiddo nods in agreement Mar 25 19:19:09 unknown_lamer what i do is embed scheme into C so i need something minimal.....basically i add scheme so i can do all kinds of funky s-expression stuff from a C app Mar 25 19:19:19 zedstar: ah maybe you should check out guile Mar 25 19:19:29 zedstar: it too runs on the maemo and is fairly lightweight if a bit slow Mar 25 19:19:38 * Sup3rkiddo hits the sack Mar 25 19:19:43 summatusmentis, night Mar 25 19:19:52 zedstar: it also has nice fully preemptive threading support and such Mar 25 19:19:55 unknown_lamer yeh checked that out....chicken is the best in terms of practical stuff Mar 25 19:20:01 goodnight Sup3rkiddo, let me know what you're planning on doing regarding applying, if you would Mar 25 19:20:10 summatusmentis, sure Mar 25 19:20:15 thanks Mar 25 19:22:10 zedstar: aye. I'm hoping to have as little C on my phone as possible Mar 25 19:22:39 zedstar: I need to finish getting my object-wiki stuff done ... and then hopefully I'll have a freerunner after that to experiment with using it as my PIM UI on the phone Mar 25 19:23:45 unknown_lamer u will need to do some FFI stuff to dbus i would expect for PIM stuff now Mar 25 19:24:20 zedstar: or just ignore their calendar sources and just use the emacs diary / bbdb Mar 25 19:24:28 zedstar: easiest way for me to sync to my desktop Mar 25 19:24:51 I have everything in planner/bbdb/diary right now and need to get something running to replace them in a slightly more structured way Mar 25 19:25:15 hence all powerful planner/muse/diary/bbdb replacement written in CL using real structured objects and magical /semantic relation/ crap Mar 25 19:26:10 unknown_lamer if u need to do anything with clever with data structures then CL would be good yeh Mar 25 19:26:49 zedstar: yep it makes life oh so nice. To do fast searches on certain relations between objects is really easy with Elephant (ah, derived indices) Mar 25 19:27:22 zedstar: the lack of a decent query language is kind of lame right now, but there is work being done on that finally ... and maybe the query stuff from wilbur or lisa could be ganked who knows Mar 25 19:28:23 unknown_lamer yeh even using simple stuff like association lists which would be a real pain to write and debug in c Mar 25 19:28:37 zedstar: ha you mean ... doing /anything/ useful in C Mar 25 19:29:19 zedstar: turns out anything interesting processes sets of data ... hey look a set processing language Mar 25 19:30:10 zedstar: I'm thinking clisp will shine on the freerunner -- lower memory use for very fancy things thanks to trivial structure sharing and such Mar 25 19:31:21 unknown_lamer yeh i think functional programming in general could be used well on small devices if people bothered to grok it.......but anyway i think we better stop wacking off on functional programming before we piss everyone off Mar 25 19:31:57 naturally Mar 25 19:32:26 I must depart anyway to do minor beard trimming before dipping out to see cutenerdwoman Mar 25 19:32:46 hack lisp and code functionally and all the ladies will flock to you -- and let you keep your glorious hacker beard ;-) Mar 25 19:33:19 yeh good luck with that ;) Mar 25 19:33:36 oh I already have permission to keep my beard Mar 25 19:36:32 is there a release termin for the final version of the phone? Mar 25 19:36:32 i'm looking forward to it since a year Mar 25 19:37:38 developer models with alpha software, cooming soon Mar 25 19:38:05 from the final version with the 400MHz-Processor? Mar 25 19:38:18 yes Mar 25 19:38:21 hopefully Mar 25 19:38:56 and this will be the final version of the hardware? Mar 25 19:38:56 i heard about problems with the akku-cells Mar 25 19:38:57 sacrificing a virgin might help Mar 25 19:38:58 :> Mar 25 19:39:16 ccfly: hm, you killed my hope Mar 25 19:39:32 my girlfriend is 22 :P Mar 25 19:40:30 and i wouldn't sacrifice her Mar 25 19:40:37 will virgin olive oil do? Mar 25 19:41:01 well I guess it has to do Mar 25 19:41:02 only if its extra extra virgin. Mar 25 19:41:06 wait... Mar 25 19:41:12 but i have a nerving sister :P Mar 25 19:41:33 [2008-03-25 19:37:47] sacrificing a virgin might help Mar 25 19:41:35 [2008-03-25 19:38:22] my girlfriend is 22 :P Mar 25 19:41:35 [2008-03-25 19:39:20] and i wouldn't sacrifice her Mar 25 19:42:09 * CM pokes ScaredyCat ;) Mar 25 19:42:13 * cb22 slaps ScaredyCat's extra long timestamps Mar 25 19:42:54 * ccfly gets killed by UNIX manual dislodged by his hartful laughter Mar 25 19:43:29 :) Mar 25 19:44:16 (: Mar 25 19:44:32 ccfly: how we should sacrifice my sister? :P Mar 25 19:45:01 der_papst_623b: simple, tell hner to go on digg and write a post about how apple sucks Mar 25 19:45:05 her* Mar 25 19:45:18 what is digg? Mar 25 19:45:32 a bunch of crap .... lately at least Mar 25 19:45:33 slashdot without moderation Mar 25 19:45:43 however funny that sounds Mar 25 19:45:45 apple fanboy heaven^W^W^W user generated links Mar 25 19:45:59 ccfly: you mean the moderation that stops dupes and old news :p Mar 25 19:46:32 dupes and old news are just a reality check coming to you straight from his highness Cowboy Neal Mar 25 19:46:36 digg is user moderated, so the lowest denominator wins... ie the frat boy Mar 25 19:46:52 and what is digg? Mar 25 19:46:57 #digg on freenode? Mar 25 19:47:00 digg.com Mar 25 19:47:02 ah Mar 25 19:47:07 a 'socail networking' site Mar 25 19:47:10 I remember digg was a good place for news and articles back then Mar 25 19:47:11 social Mar 25 19:47:23 CVirus: that was when it was tech only Mar 25 19:47:34 then they made categories for crap... Mar 25 19:47:42 and it went down the toilet Mar 25 19:48:16 agreed Mar 25 19:48:17 it used to save time, you could go there and get the latest tech links... Mar 25 19:48:22 half of 4chan seems to have migrated there Mar 25 19:48:29 LOL Mar 25 19:48:30 now there's too much crap Mar 25 19:48:41 CVirus: ahem, LUL! Mar 25 19:48:43 so it has become pointless Mar 25 19:48:57 reddit is far superior :p Mar 25 19:49:03 I loved the interwebz owing to digg actually Mar 25 19:49:03 we should make apple digg party and then sacrifice them for quick deliverance of GTA02 ! :> Mar 25 19:49:31 hell we would probably get GTA02 out of the doors in record time just as a bonus :> Mar 25 19:49:34 02 Mar 25 19:49:35 03 Mar 25 19:49:37 dammit ! Mar 25 19:49:58 we should make a new spanish inquisition to damn Windoze from the world Mar 25 19:50:28 yeah Steve Jobs used to hold that post, but then he got soft and squishy Mar 25 19:51:01 what? Mar 25 19:51:12 Jobs the knob... Mar 25 19:51:33 he kills babies and eats them Mar 25 19:51:33 (I) Mar 25 19:51:43 not tough enough ! :> Mar 25 19:51:49 have someone here seen "pirats of silicon valley"? Mar 25 19:52:06 <_diego_> yes Mar 25 19:52:09 pirates or prats? Mar 25 19:52:13 i love this Film Mar 25 19:53:14 fooooooooooooooooood!!! Mar 25 19:58:05 ScaredyCat: Pirates Mar 25 20:15:17 <^james^> i better make some scratch to buy a freerunner Mar 25 20:16:33 <^james^> if my memory serves me from staying up late googling openmoko freerunner their gonna go for like 400+ bucks Mar 25 20:17:07 That's the latest news. :) Mar 25 20:17:13 399 USD, like 5 EUR or so.. ;) Mar 25 20:17:15 D; Mar 25 20:17:17 s/+/-/ Mar 25 20:17:21 hey its not that bad Mar 25 20:17:28 <^james^> i'm totally gonna buy one Mar 25 20:17:41 ^james^: would you like the tshirt to go with that? Mar 25 20:18:00 <^james^> an openmoko shirt? hell yeah Mar 25 20:18:17 ^james^, cb22 is correct, I didn't notice the plus... the latest word is "less than 400 USD" Mar 25 20:18:30 <^james^> even better Mar 25 20:18:37 $399.99 Mar 25 20:18:43 <^james^> heh Mar 25 20:19:02 + 0.01 Mar 25 20:19:13 CM: Cool I've 5 EUR :) Mar 25 20:19:15 <^james^> or just 7 easy payments of 57.14 Mar 25 20:19:36 heh Mar 25 20:19:43 !google convert 399 USD to GBP Mar 25 20:19:44 399 U.S. dollars = 201.372767 British pounds Mar 25 20:20:05 apt: botsnack Mar 25 20:20:05 thanks, CM Mar 25 20:20:09 <^james^> last i checked USD is loosing more and more value Mar 25 20:20:16 !google convert 399 USD to ZAR Mar 25 20:20:16 Pff.. cdbot2... Mar 25 20:20:16 399 U.S. dollars = 3 253.00026 South African rands Mar 25 20:20:38 <^james^> EUR? Mar 25 20:20:43 <^james^> or yen Mar 25 20:20:53 ^james^: not to the rand :( Mar 25 20:20:56 !google convert 399 USD to ZOB Mar 25 20:20:57 Did you mean: convert 399 USD to ROB ? | Sign in @ https://www.google.com/accounts/Login?continue=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=convert+399+USD+to+ZOB&safe=off&btnG=Search&lr=lang_all&hl=en | c ct ct td st ts cd cd cd sc cs dd tcd @ http://www.infinitybiblecode.org/Hebrew_Code_Book.pdf%20class=l Mar 25 20:21:08 poor rob Mar 25 20:21:08 Hehe Mar 25 20:21:21 * cb22 notes the safe=off Mar 25 20:21:38 !google convert 399 USD to EUR Mar 25 20:21:39 399 U.S. dollars = 259.208731 Euros Mar 25 20:21:48 wow that much Mar 25 20:22:44 <^james^> yup i could buy a cheap ass car for 400 Mar 25 20:23:07 <^james^> but i'd rather walk around with a moko Mar 25 20:23:18 <^james^> and wifi/gsm/gps ;) Mar 25 20:23:58 <^james^> wonder if the atheros card will support injection wink wink aircrack aireplay Mar 25 20:24:15 no Mar 25 20:24:17 doesnt look like it :( Mar 25 20:24:36 although you could always attach a ralink via usb Mar 25 20:24:44 <^james^> serious? aw man that blows Mar 25 20:25:24 <^james^> i have a rt8187 that i use on my laptop for cracking wep Mar 25 20:25:44 wep, who the hell uses ep anymore... Mar 25 20:25:47 <^james^> 2 usb ports Mar 25 20:25:52 lots of people Mar 25 20:25:54 :\ Mar 25 20:26:27 <^james^> yup i'd say aroung 80% of encrypted nets do Mar 25 20:26:33 <^james^> that i've seen Mar 25 20:26:52 better than nothing but not by much Mar 25 20:26:54 maybe in the US... Mar 25 20:27:07 i wouldn't be so quick to assume Mar 25 20:27:15 even my technologically challenged neighbours use wpa Mar 25 20:27:28 * anrp looks up the plural of anecdote Mar 25 20:27:38 <^james^> i use wpa psk, been wanting to setup freeradius for awhile but darn its a bit of work to setup Mar 25 20:28:18 anecdotes Mar 25 20:28:31 :) Mar 25 20:28:59 <^james^> i cant get enough of youtube's openmoko vids Mar 25 20:29:08 of the 13 ap's I can see 0 are wep all are wpa Mar 25 20:29:23 <^james^> damn Mar 25 20:29:53 <^james^> at might be cause of SES stuff click button zero config crap on most new routers Mar 25 20:30:10 <^james^> i have two openwrt routers ;) Mar 25 20:31:03 manufacturers seem to have finally got the idea Mar 25 20:31:52 <^james^> damn dude i've been really hoping for raw wifi injection and possibly raw gsm/cellular band fun ;) Mar 25 20:32:07 Well, just to be cynical, it helps that a certain threshold was reached -- before that threshold, the penetration of the technology is such that each manufacturer finds it useful to implement standard in a slightly proprietary way. Mar 25 20:32:43 We're past that, and the mfgrs now understand that if you don't do WPA and do it easily, you don't sell your device -- commodity is good that way. Mar 25 20:35:44 <^james^> been also wanting a USRP http://www.ettus.com/ Universal Software Radio Peripheral (Gnu radio) Mar 25 20:46:19 ^james^: you're prepared to carry around a car battery the? Mar 25 20:46:43 <^james^> why Mar 25 20:47:18 <^james^> all that RF chatter gonna kill the battery? Mar 25 20:49:39 Because software radios typically use several orders of magnitde more power than dedicated circitry with analog filters. Mar 25 20:50:05 A teeny little bit of crystal can do billions of operations a second on nanowatts. Mar 25 20:50:39 Doing the same in silicon takes lots of power. Mar 25 20:50:57 okay, since it's sort of on topic...could somebody explain WHY radios use a crystal? Mar 25 20:51:08 I've always wondered that, and never been bothered enough to google it :p Mar 25 20:53:48 Think of it like a wineglass Mar 25 20:54:04 it resonates easily at one frequency very easily Mar 25 20:54:27 this is why when you ping it, or rub it with a damp finger, you get one note Mar 25 20:54:42 this same idea is used to select one frequency Mar 25 20:56:04 hmm Mar 25 20:56:07 interesting Mar 25 20:58:06 mickey|dinner: there by any chance? Mar 25 20:58:42 weird. All of the entry boxes in the OM interface (using yesterday's images) use the DTMF keypad for entry, which is actually really annoying for typing in phone numbers. Mar 25 20:59:26 <^james^> how else would one enter it in? Mar 25 21:00:05 <^james^> but what about access to the gsm and other cellular frequencies? Mar 25 21:00:48 <^james^> cant i write up a quick app to listen/display raw data/sound albiet encrypted but still Mar 25 21:01:18 Yes - with software radio - demodulating it is decidedly non-trivial. Mar 25 21:01:29 <^james^> flippin through the openmoko sources im not really seeing anything like im thinking Mar 25 21:01:44 what ar eyou tryig to do? Mar 25 21:01:47 ^james^, well, it should go back into numbers-only mode, not SMS-style tap-multiple-times-to-choose-character mode. sorry, I should have been more clear. Mar 25 21:01:48 <^james^> im talking about the moko not a SDR Mar 25 21:02:05 also, I would like to get the on-screen qwerty keyboard to come up, too. Mar 25 21:02:10 yo talk to GSM over a serial interface to an AT modem. Mar 25 21:02:10 you used to be able to choose the keyboard type. Mar 25 21:04:13 bye folks :> Mar 25 21:05:26 never feat Mar 25 21:05:34 configurable keyboards will be coming back Mar 25 21:05:43 kbd now comes up with keys... reads config Mar 25 21:05:50 kbd layout 100% in cfg file Mar 25 21:05:56 raster == rasterman? Mar 25 21:06:11 now i just need to fill out the rest of this kbd to have a semblance of a qwerty kbd Mar 25 21:06:12 also, that's good news. :) Mar 25 21:06:19 orospakr: no - i'm the toothfairy Mar 25 21:06:20 :) Mar 25 21:06:28 openmoko: 03werner * r4248 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (remap-vec.patch series): Mar 25 21:06:28 openmoko: remap-vec.patch: remap the vectors instead of copy them. This avoids having Mar 25 21:06:28 openmoko: to wait for AUX release in NOR boot and it also solves the same problem for Mar 25 21:06:28 openmoko: NAND boot. Mar 25 21:06:48 raster, so, is GTK a lost cause? ;) Mar 25 21:08:06 nothng to do with gtk Mar 25 21:08:08 its not Mar 25 21:09:07 raboof, I was only pulling your leg. Mar 25 21:09:40 s/raboof/raster/ Mar 25 21:09:40 orospakr meant: raster, I was only pulling your leg. Mar 25 21:09:47 now... just need to replay the sequence... Mar 25 21:09:50 hmm Mar 25 21:10:04 still need to implment shift, ctrl, alt and capslockstyle keys Mar 25 21:10:18 and make the kbd appear on demand Mar 25 21:10:24 and have a way to bring it up manually Mar 25 21:10:55 raster: demand can be really annoying, unless its slick Mar 25 21:10:59 but soon... vry wsoon.... Mar 25 21:11:08 cb22: it'll slide in Mar 25 21:11:08 :) Mar 25 21:11:11 it already done Mar 25 21:11:32 stop yer yappin and get coding, you are just a programmer, reember. Mar 25 21:11:32 the gpe way was really irritating Mar 25 21:11:34 i can add options to turn that stuff off if u ewant Mar 25 21:11:40 good :) Mar 25 21:11:42 ScaredyCat: hahahhaha Mar 25 21:11:47 i like options Mar 25 21:11:50 options == good Mar 25 21:12:01 very true Mar 25 21:12:21 on demand rather than automagically Mar 25 21:12:35 ScaredyCat: what do u mean Mar 25 21:12:35 really annoying if you have a bt keyboard Mar 25 21:12:45 kbd should come up when u focus a text field that needs input Mar 25 21:12:47 ... Mar 25 21:12:48 aaah Mar 25 21:12:50 well, atm it just pops up... Mar 25 21:12:51 yes Mar 25 21:12:54 that is another matter Mar 25 21:13:16 raster, ooh, sounds nifty. I didn't think a smooth slide would work well on this hardware. Mar 25 21:13:16 eventually i should put detection in - if bt kbd is there, thenonlypop up on explicit reaquerst Mar 25 21:13:17 maybe a configurable thing with the default action to popup... Mar 25 21:13:21 not automatically Mar 25 21:13:23 etc. etc. Mar 25 21:13:26 tempting: http://cgi.ebay.com/VR3-16-MB-Ram-A-Pure-Linux-PDA-for-Developers-black_W0QQitemZ290156194393QQihZ019QQcategoryZ38331QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem Mar 25 21:13:45 yeah raster, v good Mar 25 21:14:17 ewon: that must be at least 8 years old Mar 25 21:15:29 Oct. 31, 2000 Mar 25 21:15:42 raster: btw, what is the keyboard based on? Mar 25 21:15:43 pretty close eh Mar 25 21:15:59 and unreleated, different styles of keyboards would be really useful Mar 25 21:16:06 is there any hope of synchronizing the pimlico apps (contacts, in particular) with Evolution? Mar 25 21:16:27 like when you are browsing the web, you want http:// and www. etc, when you are using the temrinal, you probably want a bigger ctl, alt and tab then normal Mar 25 21:16:48 might want www key too Mar 25 21:17:25 ScaredyCat: a few steps at a time Mar 25 21:17:36 cb22: right now - thin air Mar 25 21:17:37 :) Mar 25 21:17:55 the whole layout Mar 25 21:18:11 keys and what seaquences of presses and releases they produce are entirely in a text config file Mar 25 21:18:16 for now it loads just 1 config Mar 25 21:18:27 but i'll add in config (layout) switching later Mar 25 21:18:32 :D Mar 25 21:18:38 but as it stands it can do a "http://" key Mar 25 21:18:40 as such Mar 25 21:18:42 ScaredyCat: I know, but for a cheap hacking device it can't be too bad Mar 25 21:18:46 its inherent in the cfg Mar 25 21:19:05 i'm just goign to xtest extension fake they stuff Mar 25 21:19:18 ewon: there must be better Mar 25 21:19:49 it should have a dbus interface too :) Mar 25 21:19:49 is it done yet raster? Mar 25 21:19:49 is it done yet raster? Mar 25 21:19:49 is it done yet raster? Mar 25 21:19:50 is it done yet raster? Mar 25 21:23:42 working... on... it Mar 25 21:23:55 so far i have a firly minimal kbd config Mar 25 21:23:59 with.... 5 keys Mar 25 21:24:04 a bit minimal if u ask me Mar 25 21:24:16 no vowels Mar 25 21:24:18 :) Mar 25 21:27:49 i guess the main thing here is to have a kbd anyone can easily do a new layotu for Mar 25 21:27:51 for a new langauge Mar 25 21:27:53 or use Mar 25 21:28:12 so i am concerned about making it flexible Mar 25 21:28:15 so need to take time Mar 25 21:29:16 <^james^> patch tues Mar 25 21:29:58 only for some Mar 25 21:31:09 <^james^> does that guy that owns or somethin openmoko that i read about in linuxjournal hang out in here? Mar 25 21:36:17 hello Mar 25 21:36:49 is someone could help me about ssh connection Mar 25 21:36:58 with the neo Mar 25 21:37:47 seal20: what seems to be the problem ? Mar 25 21:38:52 i don't know ho ti connect to my phone Mar 25 21:38:54 via ssh Mar 25 21:39:11 have you set up the network ? Mar 25 21:39:21 ? Mar 25 21:39:41 I WORST in lan Mar 25 21:39:44 I presume you've connected the phone to a USB port Mar 25 21:39:50 yes Mar 25 21:39:55 have you done anything else ? Mar 25 21:40:17 juste boot it in special boot mode Mar 25 21:40:34 what does that mean ? Mar 25 21:41:04 what sort of special boot mode are you talking about ? Mar 25 21:41:14 when you startup your phone you press on button Mar 25 21:41:18 bootloader? Mar 25 21:41:22 yes Mar 25 21:41:31 you must boot into normal mode Mar 25 21:41:36 you can't ssh into the bootloader Mar 25 21:41:55 bootloader is mainly for flashing Neo Mar 25 21:47:59 nothing else Mar 25 21:48:40 i have type ssh -X root@192.168.0.202 Mar 25 21:48:49 but timeout Mar 25 21:51:29 seal20: first of all, you have to get the phone to boot. Mar 25 21:51:46 seal20: then you have to set up the networking Mar 25 21:51:54 i have boot normaly then Mar 25 21:52:04 i have type the command Mar 25 21:52:13 by default, the neo is set to the address 192.168.0.202 Mar 25 21:52:47 ok Mar 25 21:52:52 my kbd has 2 rows Mar 25 21:52:54 so you have to set up your computer so the USB ethernet device the Neo presents itself as has the address 192.168.0.200 Mar 25 21:53:21 raster: mine has 6 :) Mar 25 21:53:36 and multiple keys :P Mar 25 21:53:56 polz: but is yours crammed in a corner of a 2.8" 480x640 locd? Mar 25 21:53:58 lcd Mar 25 21:53:59 :) Mar 25 21:54:24 raster: close, it's lying just below (and attached to) a 7'' 800x480 LCD :P Mar 25 21:55:16 * ewon awaits the gta02 Mar 25 21:55:47 ewon: don't forget to breathe Mar 25 21:56:08 ;) Mar 25 21:57:06 raster: are you THE raster ? Mar 25 21:57:07 ping is not responding Mar 25 21:57:45 seal20: have you set up the networking on your computer ? Mar 25 21:58:16 polz: i'm little red riding hood actually. Mar 25 21:58:20 though i'mneither little Mar 25 21:58:23 nor red Mar 25 21:58:30 nor do i wear a riding hood Mar 25 21:58:31 but you are riding hood? Mar 25 21:58:37 in fact come think of it Mar 25 21:58:37 i Mar 25 21:58:39 yes Mar 25 21:58:46 raster: do you collect flowers ? Mar 25 21:58:48 i'm nothing like little red riding hood Mar 25 21:58:48 i see my phone Mar 25 21:59:07 raster: exactly the same in every way, except all of them? Mar 25 21:59:09 on network interface Mar 25 21:59:22 Qwell: EXACTLY! Mar 25 21:59:23 :) Mar 25 22:00:03 seal20: that's good. Now, have you set up your computer so it assigns the IP 192.168.0.200 to the USB network device ? Mar 25 22:00:42 how to Mar 25 22:00:53 does anyone here know how the port of Qt 4 + Qtopia to Openmoko (using X11) is progressing ? Mar 25 22:01:00 i used to program 8 bits micro controler so Mar 25 22:01:09 seal20: search for the instructions in the wiki Mar 25 22:01:09 polz: it works Mar 25 22:01:21 i a beat worth in lan an system Mar 25 22:01:22 raster: what kind of keyboard is in your (or rather OMs) mind? any special concept? Mar 25 22:01:26 and system Mar 25 22:01:28 raster: how does it communicate with the GSM ? Mar 25 22:01:34 edistar: qwerty Mar 25 22:01:48 polz: just uses qtopia's stuff Mar 25 22:01:54 cool. Mar 25 22:02:06 so u either use qtopia Mar 25 22:02:06 raster: you said configurable though, right? Mar 25 22:02:07 or gsmd Mar 25 22:02:09 choose Mar 25 22:02:10 where do I get it ? :) Mar 25 22:02:11 or die Mar 25 22:02:14 (the kbd) Mar 25 22:02:15 Qwell: yes Mar 25 22:02:26 i'm doing a full(ish) qwerty layout to start Mar 25 22:02:28 raster: well, it's either me or gsmd Mar 25 22:02:39 luckily for me, gsmd likes dying :P Mar 25 22:02:44 as its just a cfg file... can cut it down later Mar 25 22:03:08 would how difficult it would be to get the keyboard integrated with the dialer Mar 25 22:03:15 raster: I did a virtual keyboard for X using Qt Mar 25 22:03:17 eh? Mar 25 22:03:19 I could see automatic digit translation being useful Mar 25 22:03:35 hmm Mar 25 22:03:45 kbd code doesnt understand multi-tap as a concept Mar 25 22:03:48 know what I mean? like abc>2, etc Mar 25 22:03:50 not trying to address that currently Mar 25 22:04:08 tho i guess reverse is easy Mar 25 22:04:15 ie type in "hello" Mar 25 22:04:28 49556 Mar 25 22:04:32 erm, 43556 Mar 25 22:04:34 and it'll actually enter ... yesah Mar 25 22:04:34 that Mar 25 22:04:41 IMHO, the only _useful_ input method for the neo would be some sort of gesture system with audio feedback Mar 25 22:04:43 can't look at a phone and type using numpad :D Mar 25 22:04:43 that'd just be a different layout Mar 25 22:04:45 :) Mar 25 22:04:54 because the screen is useless in the open Mar 25 22:05:14 qtopia has full screen handwriting input Mar 25 22:05:30 lpotter: $50 says it won't recognize a single character from me... Mar 25 22:05:47 you can train it if you need Mar 25 22:05:51 lpotter: how do I select that while writing a message ? Mar 25 22:06:15 the only options I see here are DockedKeyboard, Keyboard, Phone Keys and PredictiveKeyboard Mar 25 22:06:23 if it is enabled in the build you can switch inputs ither by a menu form the top, or the menu at the bottom Mar 25 22:06:30 phone keys Mar 25 22:06:43 whitch wiki Mar 25 22:06:44 the predictive kbd is quite nice Mar 25 22:06:48 in qtopia Mar 25 22:07:02 might try and hook its prediction logic in... Mar 25 22:07:09 if you speak english Mar 25 22:07:54 seal20: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking Mar 25 22:08:16 THANK Mar 25 22:08:58 BYE EVERY ONE Mar 25 22:09:30 lpotter: I'm using qtopia... and can't help but wonder - what's the reason for the phone taking so long to respond to a phone call ? Mar 25 22:09:57 I mean... often people hang up before I can pick up the call Mar 25 22:10:11 it takes about 1s for the phone to ring Mar 25 22:10:33 not sure why Mar 25 22:10:43 and then a few seconds before the buttons show up... Mar 25 22:11:08 and then a few more seconds after I press the Answer button for the call to actually get picked up Mar 25 22:11:29 lpotter: is this a case of PEBSAC or are you experiencing the same problems ? Mar 25 22:11:34 if (user == polz) sleep(1); Mar 25 22:11:35 ... Mar 25 22:11:41 known issie Mar 25 22:11:43 (and other such wonderful snippets) Mar 25 22:11:44 :) Mar 25 22:11:46 issue Mar 25 22:11:55 raster: maybe it's my reflexes Mar 25 22:12:01 openmoko: 03andrew * r4249 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (hw/neo1973.c openmoko/README): Implement basic LIS302DL accelerometer logic. Mar 25 22:12:23 lpotter: so I guess you haven't identified any possible reasons yet. Mar 25 22:12:48 many reasons, actually Mar 25 22:12:55 raster: btw, that snippet wouldn't work, the only account I have on the neo is root :P Mar 25 22:13:06 polz: that's what you think! Mar 25 22:13:11 lpotter: written them down anzwhere ? :) Mar 25 22:13:12 it KNOWS who you are! Mar 25 22:13:13 :) Mar 25 22:13:24 OMGWTF Mar 25 22:14:09 MUHAHAHAHAHAH Mar 25 22:14:23 I knew the phone belongs to me, but I would never have guessed it thinks I belong to _it_ Mar 25 22:14:39 it all makes perfect sense now Mar 25 22:14:46 * polz is Neo1973's bitch Mar 25 22:14:55 that's why it's acting the way it is Mar 25 22:15:32 * ewon patiently awaits the gta02 Mar 25 22:16:01 ewon: patiently ? PATIENTLY ? You should be instigating a riot in front of Openmoko HQ :P Mar 25 22:16:13 are you a man or are you a moose ? Mar 25 22:16:30 * daMaestro hopes that his gta01 is still usable [read: there is still development going on that will work with it] once the gta02 comes out Mar 25 22:16:38 polz: indeed. you are your phones bitch. bow downand obey! Mar 25 22:16:39 :) Mar 25 22:17:00 polz: I'm a little bit far away from Taiwan Mar 25 22:17:16 maybe i'll just suck it up and buy another, but sadly it's got to come a long ways or i might buy *gulp* an i[shiet]phone Mar 25 22:17:25 let the crusades begin! Mar 25 22:17:43 he blasphemes! Mar 25 22:17:48 lol Mar 25 22:17:49 STONE the heretic! Mar 25 22:17:51 STONE HIM! Mar 25 22:18:05 he has made a bargain with satan! Mar 25 22:18:06 hey now, i bought a gta01 to support the effort Mar 25 22:18:10 * mwester rather likes the iphone Mar 25 22:18:13 I'd buy an iphone, if the sdk wasn't a load of bullshit and chis Mar 25 22:18:15 *chips Mar 25 22:18:25 he has been corrupted by the dark side! Mar 25 22:18:26 :) Mar 25 22:18:26 yeah, i've not looked at the sdk.. just because i don't want to Mar 25 22:18:50 * mwester wishes that the community had a few more of them, it would offer a good example of what the UI should feel like in terms of responsiveness... Mar 25 22:18:53 I tried to buy a gta02 when it came out, but the system swallowed my credit card number and lost my order Mar 25 22:19:07 ah, i didn't know the gta02 is out Mar 25 22:19:12 oops Mar 25 22:19:14 gta01 Mar 25 22:19:17 :) Mar 25 22:21:45 yeah, i'm soon going to be needing a really nice mobile as i will be traveling much, much more Mar 25 22:23:25 * edistar suggest: a novel product, called the Neo Freerunner, non working glamo, slow gui but OSS and geek-factor Mar 25 22:59:45 Hi y'all, quick OE question. Why do I get "sh: oe_sha256sum: not found" during the build? Mar 25 23:00:49 I'm on bitbake 1.8.10. I tried the "bitbake shasum-native" but this didn't help. Mar 25 23:03:18 Oddly, oe_sha256sum exists under build/staging, and a nonzero size, is executable, but doesn't do anything when executed. Mar 25 23:11:09 openmoko: 03thomas * r4250 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/dialer/moko-history.c): Mar 25 23:11:09 openmoko: 2008-03-25 Thomas Wood Mar 25 23:11:09 openmoko: * src/dialog/moko-history.c: Implement "Create New Contact" from call Mar 25 23:11:09 openmoko: log Mar 25 23:37:57 And building pulseaudio says: Mar 25 23:38:01 libssp.so.0, needed by /u/moko/build/tmp/staging/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/usr/lib/libavahi-common.so, not found (try using -rpath or -rpath-link Mar 25 23:38:07 ***CRASH*** Mar 25 23:38:13 :) Mar 26 00:12:08 mwester (and djk_): I had similar errors on various -native packages for a while, and tried (to no avail) to debug it. Mar 26 00:12:27 What worked was (as usual) blowing away the tmp directory and rebuilding from scratch. Mar 26 00:12:40 (No big deal with a quad core, but YMMV) Mar 26 00:13:01 First post-annihilation build completed w/o errors. Mar 26 00:13:33 I don't know what changed in OE, if anything. Mar 26 00:14:42 (I had previously rebuilt from scratch earlier this month, following the OE staging ABI switch, so it's not that.) Mar 26 00:16:22 Is anyone online familiar with editing the wiki pages? I'm trying to include an image on a newly created page. I'm using a tag but the tag does not get interpreted, it just shows up as a literal string. Any ideas about what I'm doing wrong? Mar 26 00:18:41 rtm: Your nick is very tempting to just quote it with an additional f, you know ;) Mar 26 00:18:51 When you edit a wiki page you always find a link to a handy reference Mar 26 00:19:36 VERY nice! I never noticed that. And you are, of course right. Mar 26 00:19:53 (about the nick) Mar 26 00:20:03 The link is called "Editing help" Mar 26 00:21:11 Thanks - I had not noticed that link. Mar 26 00:21:33 No prob ;) Mar 26 00:22:19 Keep in mind that if you want to use images local to the wiki you need to upload them first Mar 26 00:22:51 Yes, I can tell now from the help page I was completely mistaken - I thought I just needed to use HTML. Mar 26 00:23:05 The page for that is named "upload file" and you can see it listed on the toolbox on the top left Mar 26 00:26:33 quicksand: :) Already tried that; this is a completely clean build synced up and started from nothing a few hours ago (ony a dual-core, so it takes a bit longer). Mar 26 00:28:09 Hooray - my image shows up. Thanks again, abraxa! Mar 26 00:28:33 You're welcoe Mar 26 00:28:34 +m Mar 26 00:28:55 mwester: Gah, don't know what else to suggest then. You on bleeding-edge or OM? Mar 26 00:30:41 djk_: Just wondering - do you want to build the distro or merely develop an application? Mar 26 00:31:58 quicksand: there is no more bleeding edge, it's all OM now. Mar 26 00:32:10 So I'm on the "bleeding edge OM" I guess Mar 26 00:32:28 Wait, so mtn is always synced? Mar 26 00:32:39 I'm trying an older version of pulseaudio, just for grins. Mar 26 00:33:14 quicksand: OM moved to a branch; so they are no longer developing on the OE branch. Mar 26 00:35:36 mwester: I must have missed that. Should I be using a different address to update from? Mar 26 00:35:38 thanks for the replies abraxa and quicksand :) Mar 26 00:36:10 Funny guy. I asked him a question. Mar 26 00:38:06 quicksand: Instructions on the mailing list, they are multiple steps. Look for "Openmoko Monotone Changes" in the community, device-owners, and distro-devel OM lists. Mar 26 00:41:33 mwester: I'll take a look, thanks. Mar 26 00:43:11 Ah, just yesterday. I feel a bit less uninformed now. Mar 26 00:48:51 openmoko: 03thomas * r4251 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/dialer/moko-history.c): Mar 26 00:48:51 openmoko: 2008-03-26 Thomas Wood Mar 26 00:48:51 openmoko: * src/dialer/moko-history.c: (create_new_contact_from_number), Mar 26 00:48:51 openmoko: (add_number_to_contact), (on_btn_save_clicked), Mar 26 00:48:51 openmoko: (btn_save_info_weak_notify), (on_save_clicked): Mar 26 00:48:55 openmoko: Implement "Add to Contact" from call log feature Mar 26 01:16:57 ***Shameless self-promotion alert*** I just posted a wiki page for my first openmoko application. It's called orrery, and it displays the night sky. I sure hope someone besides me runs it at least one, or I won't be able to claim to be an openmoko "developer" anymore. Mar 26 01:18:44 Now if you had provided a link to the wiki page.... ;) Mar 26 01:18:49 rtm: a promotional tip: always include a url :-) Mar 26 01:19:08 rtyler: including satellites? Mar 26 01:19:10 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Orrery Mar 26 01:19:13 rtm: Mar 26 01:19:28 silver isn't one I don't think Mar 26 01:19:30 oops Mar 26 01:19:37 Most of all, I'd like suggestions for improvements. Mar 26 01:19:49 rtm: does it do satellites? Mar 26 01:19:51 rtm: Looks good! Mar 26 01:20:10 Not yet. It's very crude so far. Mar 26 01:20:23 (satelites, that is). Mar 26 01:20:41 rtm: Maybe little name tags for the most important objects - i.e. planets Mar 26 01:21:29 But it's a case where the full VGA display really helps. You need a lot of pixels to go down to 6.75 magnitude on a big chunk of the sky. Mar 26 01:21:45 aliasing helps Mar 26 01:22:03 rtm: have you ever seen the Planetarium PalmOS app? That would be my benchmark. http://www.aho.ch/pilotplanets/ Mar 26 01:22:06 It doesn't have nametags for the planets yet, but it does display their symbols. Mar 26 01:22:19 rtm: seen xephem? Mar 26 01:22:44 Yes, I have the PalmOS Planetarium, and it puts my little program to shame. But I'm just getting started. Mar 26 01:22:44 I wonder if there are bluetooth-enabled telescopes ... Mar 26 01:23:03 Yes, there are bluetooth enabled telescopes. Mar 26 01:23:10 rtm: is it going to be open source? Mar 26 01:23:49 I've seen, and liked xephem. I think it is a bit too numerically intensive for an ARM with no floating point instructions, though. Mar 26 01:24:19 * SpeedEvil remembers using it on a 486/75 Mar 26 01:24:21 Of course it will be open source. Nothing would please me more than someone else playing with it. Mar 26 01:24:43 how about tickling it? Mar 26 01:24:57 Even a 486/75 would beat the neo on floating point, wouldn't it? Mar 26 01:25:00 * ljp likes to tickle software Mar 26 01:25:09 rtm: sounds like a winner to me - you have enough functionality there to put it up on projects.openmoko.org right now and get a developer community going around it ... Mar 26 01:25:16 rtyler: not really typically Mar 26 01:25:21 There are batery life issues involved in going CPU bound too, of course. Mar 26 01:25:22 tmr: Mar 26 01:26:27 Don't underestimate what you can do with careful application of fixed point and float on a device like the neo... Mar 26 01:27:05 but its not like the old zaurus Mar 26 02:24:19 the gsm modem is different than the gps chip right? Mar 26 02:24:30 Yes. Mar 26 02:24:36 GSM = phone, GPS = location Mar 26 02:25:01 so the gsm modem then provides calling functions, sms/mms functionality, data connection? Mar 26 02:25:04 is that it? Mar 26 02:25:41 Yes. Mar 26 02:26:13 and as such, that's all $chosen_gsmd needs to provide? Mar 26 02:32:26 summatusmentis: There are many other things that people would *like* to do, but those are the basics. Mar 26 02:35:15 mwester: what else would people want $chosen_gsmd to do? Mar 26 02:36:01 provide access to the raw data - not as audio - but as data. Mar 26 02:36:11 mwester: but that's not possible with the current firmware. Mar 26 02:36:23 summa: Mar 26 02:36:44 (for normal voice calls) Mar 26 02:38:53 SpeedEvil: wait, what? Mar 26 02:39:34 To allow for encryption - or transmission of data - over normal voice calls - which are often cheaper than proper data circuits. Mar 26 02:39:55 For example, on many plans, they'd be in included minutes. Mar 26 02:39:55 oh, but not currently do-able? Mar 26 02:39:58 no Mar 26 02:40:04 I see, that makes sense Mar 26 02:40:38 so, of the things that are currently do-able, the three things i listed are what $chosen_gsmd should do? Mar 26 02:40:53 yeah Mar 26 02:41:06 network managment too Mar 26 02:41:18 I'd also mention that one needs a general control and management set of functions. Mar 26 02:41:28 The ability to power on/off, etc. Mar 26 02:41:29 'do you really want to make this call as we're currently roaming and it'll be ruinoously expensive' Mar 26 02:41:46 I see, hmm Mar 26 02:41:58 and the ability to get information on what cell site you are using (a la the google maps functionality on some smartphones) Mar 26 02:42:23 are any of the current gsmd options close to this functionality? Mar 26 02:43:01 There's a reasonable set of low-level management things in the gsmd. Mar 26 02:43:15 which one is 'the' gsmd? Mar 26 02:43:29 my understanding is that there are at least 4 Mar 26 02:43:37 I'm referring to the one OM is including in the currently-built firmware Mar 26 02:44:36 do you know what it's called? I'm working on an application to provide a dbus API to gsmd, but mickey|dinner and others said the state of which gsmd was going to be used is in limbo Mar 26 02:49:24 limbogsmd Mar 26 02:50:01 lol Mar 26 02:52:30 well.. I think you can still hack encryption on top of gsm audio Mar 26 02:53:11 (only between two freerunners(or compatible) using same crypto-software) Mar 26 02:53:23 SpeedEvil: it's generally not possible to use non-gsm audio in gsm networks as the usage of the voice codec is not optional in gsm networks Mar 26 02:56:29 as concerns roaming, i'd like to be able to distiguish between national and international roaming Mar 26 02:58:19 nibbo: sure - however going through 2 codecs - the ones on the network side where it converts to 8 bit 8Khz for over the PSTN - rather than 4 - 2 in each modem - it helps. Mar 26 02:59:50 what do you try to explain there? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Mar 26 02:59:56 2008