**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Mar 26 02:59:56 2008 Mar 26 03:00:31 The normal data path is: Mar 26 03:01:49 Voice input -> A/D -> GSM coder -> RF (with errors) -> GSM decoder -> 8 bit 8Khz -> PSTN -> GSM encoder -> RF (with errors) -> GSM decoder -> D/A -> analog voice out. Mar 26 03:02:22 If you get access at the data side, you reduce that to: Mar 26 03:03:03 knowndata in GSM format -> RF (with errors) -> GSM decoder -> 8bit 8Khz -> PSTN -> GSM encoder -> RF (with errors) -> data out Mar 26 03:03:53 what do you think you can gain? mind that there might be transcoding FR <-> EFR in-between Mar 26 03:04:44 I'm unsure. I was looking at the paper that I've annoyingly lost that got 1300bits/s over voice GSM Mar 26 03:04:49 and what do you mean with "8bit 8khz" - i was under the impression that voice is transcoded from the different flavours of gsm voice codecs, that being amr, efr, etc. to a/ulaw Mar 26 03:05:18 yes - u/a-law that goes over the PSTN to the other mobile network Mar 26 03:05:25 uhm - it's for sure not 1300bit/s Mar 26 03:05:26 Or maybe even internally. Mar 26 03:05:33 it _can_ be 13,2k Mar 26 03:05:38 nibbo: this was a nasty hack. Mar 26 03:05:55 nibbler_de: data -> vocoder -> A/D Mar 26 03:06:07 but with the advent of amr the bitrate can vary Mar 26 03:06:12 And voice recognition on the other end. Mar 26 03:06:37 That actually managed to push 1300bits/s of data over the GSM codecs. Mar 26 03:06:48 Over actual phones. Mar 26 03:07:00 1300bit/s is less than a CSD channel, you are aware of this? Mar 26 03:07:03 yes. Mar 26 03:07:11 there is no gain Mar 26 03:07:15 However, data in many places is >> the cost of voice. Mar 26 03:07:53 And there is in many places no data allowance - but a generous voice allowance. Mar 26 03:08:20 sure, quite reasonable too, a CSD channel is "more expensive" as concerns switching - you often have the same price also for a HSCSD channel (or rather multiple ones) Mar 26 03:08:46 so what you're trying to say is... let's have narrowband data over voice in gsm? Mar 26 03:09:01 As an option - sure. Mar 26 03:09:21 ew Mar 26 03:09:35 that's ugly Mar 26 03:09:37 yes. Mar 26 03:09:53 Consider it also for stuff like vcards. Mar 26 03:09:53 how about ip over sms for people with sms-flat-rate contracts? ;) Mar 26 03:10:19 exchanging contact information automatically, or website addresses, or ... Mar 26 03:10:30 For actual bulk data - well - it's usually silly. Mar 26 03:11:02 But for map coordinates or web URLs, or short texts. Mar 26 03:11:32 uhm, why not use gprs for that? Mar 26 03:11:36 it's cheap Mar 26 03:11:45 GPRS is comparatively expensive in many places. Mar 26 03:11:55 And you can't use GPRS on a call. Mar 26 03:12:05 "on a call"? Mar 26 03:12:12 uhm - there are gsm modems that can Mar 26 03:12:14 And there is no neat way to send a packet to a phone number. Mar 26 03:12:21 Yes - but many cannot. Mar 26 03:13:01 * * OM Bug 1299 has been created by john_lee(AT)openmoko.com Mar 26 03:13:02 * * cannot boot: svnr 4230, 4248 Mar 26 03:13:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1299 Mar 26 03:13:35 As a simpest example - consider if I want to send a vcard at the end of a call, with my info. That's a second burst of extra voice call. Which is 'free'. Mar 26 03:14:41 well - you can do that with present mokos - just use inline-audio ;) Mar 26 03:14:58 SpeedEvil could be done. it one really wants when gprs is so cheap is anoter question Mar 26 03:15:14 roh: but GPRS isn't tied to phone numbers. Mar 26 03:15:24 SpeedEvil but its really low bandwith and thus nothing for voice or bulk data Mar 26 03:15:43 roh: I can't send a TCP packet to a phone number. Mar 26 03:15:45 could imagine a console session on 1000baud.. for chat.... Mar 26 03:15:53 roh: and SMS suffer delays. Mar 26 03:15:59 SpeedEvil well... you can. Mar 26 03:16:07 there is still enum *ducks* Mar 26 03:16:36 roh: this is for small bits of data - I'm at - come and pick me up. Mar 26 03:16:48 where click is 'send my gps info' Mar 26 03:16:50 * nibbler_de slaps roh with a big "even denic doesn't care about enum, els they would maintain their dns infrastructure more properly"-sign Mar 26 03:17:22 roh: where you want it to go along with the phone call. Mar 26 03:17:42 SpeedEvil in an environment where carriers start to wake up and say 'well.. we are a wireless isp' and gprs/3g flatrates are there... i see us online all the time soon Mar 26 03:17:45 roh: or sharing your open diary appointmets with someone, so they can pick a slot. Mar 26 03:18:03 roh: Sure you do. Mar 26 03:18:06 roh: do they? Mar 26 03:18:08 we will minimize the usage of internet only to spare battery for later, not because it costs more money Mar 26 03:18:38 roh: many GSM networks can't really do free unlimited data. Mar 26 03:18:53 As the network is congested in places. Mar 26 03:19:04 SpeedEvil to work in a 'inband' case people would have to use compatible devices. and i do not see everybody with a moko soon. so we have to think of something better, more generic Mar 26 03:19:17 which people could dock onto with other apps for other devices Mar 26 03:19:36 roh: no we don't, not if it's a good feature IMO. Mar 26 03:19:58 Sure I don't argue that interoperable features are good. Mar 26 03:20:23 noninteroperable features die a early and harsh death. even if the idea is good. Mar 26 03:20:43 Unless they get copied. Mar 26 03:25:01 Consider transflash - microSD. Mar 26 03:25:08 well.. i sometimes tell ideas i want to see done people i do know that will remember and tell others to make it happen when there is a gain ;) Mar 26 03:26:31 Or the VGA connector. Mar 26 03:26:42 floppy disks. Mar 26 03:27:00 (specifically the IBM/PC interface of) Mar 26 03:27:08 so what? Mar 26 03:28:03 its not rocket science. its a hack. a hack neccessary because of politics of carrier sales and not because it couldn be done sane when engineered right from start Mar 26 03:28:19 just examples of single sourced things that took off. Mar 26 03:28:46 engineered stuff. not hacks Mar 26 03:29:00 hacks you can only establish 'clandestine' Mar 26 03:29:14 * SpeedEvil ponders. Mar 26 03:29:26 ID3 tags. Mar 26 03:30:06 yes. why did it work? because it was easy to replace software which handled that files with supportive one Mar 26 03:30:33 will be difficult in a world out there where it will take time to hace access to the audio signal from a selfbuilt app Mar 26 03:31:10 But OM phones will be the majority come 2010, so that's not a problem. Mar 26 03:31:13 :) Mar 26 03:31:24 hrhr.. i do not like monocultures Mar 26 03:31:47 but i would like a culture of free and open devices to write code for Mar 26 03:32:02 Even if every phone in the world shipped with OM - due to the nature - you're going to get people developing stuff for them. Mar 26 03:32:16 forks of debian/slackware/ubuntu/... Mar 26 03:34:03 even microsoft and symbian. Mar 26 03:48:15 mickey|dinner is in bed huh? Mar 26 03:48:18 probably? Mar 26 04:47:53 http://www.firebox.com/product/2032 Mar 26 06:10:37 Everything liking with avahi fails to build; cannot find libssp.so.0. Mar 26 06:11:12 That library is in tmp/cross/... but probably needs to be in staging? Mar 26 06:11:23 In any case, all new builds are broken. Mar 26 06:17:47 wow... I thought nokia n8x00 were cellphones... that means one less competitor (now in my mind). =P Mar 26 06:18:12 mwester: we are currently trying to work out why that is broken Mar 26 06:18:32 mwester: its wierd as I dont see it break on my machine, but when I inspect libssp.la I see the broken values Mar 26 06:27:55 XorA: I copied the libs into staging, and the build continues now. Mar 26 06:31:01 mwester: I dont suppose you know what generates libssp? Mar 26 06:31:28 gcc? Mar 26 06:31:49 It's in the cross directory, and appears in the gcc work directory. Mar 26 06:32:53 mwester: cheeers Mar 26 06:32:53 darn, my "grep" output that told me that has scrolled out of the buffer. Mar 26 06:35:10 gcc-cross creates it. Mar 26 06:35:44 (I knew I had that scribbled down somewhere :D) Mar 26 06:44:34 mwester: cheers Mar 26 06:45:51 hmm, interesting my OE.dev build tree doesnt have a libssp Mar 26 06:47:54 I clobbered *everything*, then started over 24 hours ago. Mar 26 06:48:18 I used rwhitby's new makefile (of course) to do the setup... Mar 26 06:48:32 of course Mar 26 06:48:56 * XorA thinks we shouldnt actually have a libssp Mar 26 06:48:57 gcc-cross-4.1.2-r14 <----- specific version Mar 26 06:49:35 avahi actually ends up with a "-lssp" on the link lines (from configure I expect)... Mar 26 06:50:16 mwester: anyway I am doing a from scratch to see if I made change to fix Mar 26 06:50:30 but this machine isnt as fast as my home build machine Mar 26 06:51:06 Ok. I need sleep; I'll start a new build in about 6 hours too, and see if it's better. Strange stuff... Mar 26 06:51:26 gcc-cross is scary shit Mar 26 06:52:00 There is only one person who knows that deep dark magic. Mar 26 06:53:22 pb_ :-) Mar 26 06:54:22 morning Mar 26 07:04:03 where can i find specs on the GTA02? Mar 26 07:05:18 lunartear: Official status: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates" if I remember correct Mar 26 07:08:58 yo mickeyl Mar 26 07:11:08 is the estimated price still around $400? Mar 26 07:17:08 if so im gonna have to wait til it comes down Mar 26 08:24:25 good morning Mar 26 08:27:31 morning Mar 26 09:28:53 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4252 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (3 files in 2 dirs): openmoko-dialer2: unable to terminate call (bug#1239) Mar 26 09:50:58 * ScaredyCat kicks neod Mar 26 09:51:36 * XorA waits for neod to fight back Mar 26 09:53:25 you'll be waiting a while... Mar 26 09:53:30 useless lump.. Mar 26 09:53:40 ScaredyCat: sounds like it is fighting now :-) Mar 26 09:53:50 passive aggressive fighting Mar 26 09:53:53 naa, it's just laying down and dying Mar 26 09:53:57 lol Mar 26 09:54:16 * ScaredyCat wonders if anyone actually 'owns' noed ... Mar 26 09:54:52 the X failure thing is definately noed trying to init sound... and screwing it up Mar 26 09:55:10 it seems to be more and more frequesnt Mar 26 09:55:15 frequent Mar 26 09:55:31 erin does I think Mar 26 09:55:48 sounds like for some reason pulse didnt finish init before neod starts Mar 26 09:55:56 could you try putting a sleep in pulse recipe? Mar 26 09:56:20 after pulse is started :-) Mar 26 09:56:20 spose I could... Mar 26 09:56:31 ahng Mar 26 09:56:34 or hang Mar 26 09:58:43 ScaredyCat: if you can prove/disprove that theory it would be great Mar 26 10:02:57 well, 4 seconds isnt enough :/ Mar 26 10:03:27 hmm, is pulse even running at all? Mar 26 10:05:05 "All module directories were populated by Mar 26 10:05:05 the same module.so." Mar 26 10:05:07 oooh Mar 26 10:05:16 so that explains the corrupt stack Mar 26 10:05:19 heh Mar 26 10:05:33 and why i suddenly found myself in evas_image_saver_tiff Mar 26 10:05:41 when i was supposed to be in the buffer_engine Mar 26 10:05:53 myself being the PC Mar 26 10:06:12 (program counter, that is) Mar 26 10:07:07 14 seconds might be enough Mar 26 10:07:54 mickeyl: you watch Tron too many times Mar 26 10:08:08 indeed Mar 26 10:08:14 i have the extended edition on dvd Mar 26 10:08:20 :-D Mar 26 10:08:30 oh the good ole times... Mar 26 10:09:48 mickeyl: reading my email then? Mar 26 10:15:57 14 second failure Mar 26 10:15:57 ya Mar 26 10:16:36 root 1162 2.6 3.2 17884 4112 ? S ? Mar 26 10:18:00 everything worked for months Mar 26 10:18:09 what did you break this time? :D Mar 26 10:18:24 * XorA avoids neod braking Mar 26 10:18:56 * ScaredyCat wonders if anyone actually 'owns' noed ... Mar 26 10:19:01 ScaredyCat: yes, me Mar 26 10:19:07 Is there a function, to spoof SMS in openmoko? Mar 26 10:19:12 ScaredyCat: what brings you to the conclusion, neod has anything to do with the X failure ? Mar 26 10:19:33 Spoof the "sender" to the viewer of openmoko Mar 26 10:20:07 elation, why would you want to do that? Mar 26 10:20:25 what, I'm not allowed wild accusations? Mar 26 10:20:33 thos: Private needs Mar 26 10:20:38 ScaredyCat: :D Mar 26 10:20:41 of course you are Mar 26 10:20:43 but not against neod Mar 26 10:20:48 poor little puppy Mar 26 10:20:50 * mickeyl hugs neod Mar 26 10:20:55 elation, "Private needs" such as what? Mar 26 10:21:00 hehe Mar 26 10:21:03 ** (neod:1220): DEBUG: mainmenu sound state callback. state = 1 Mar 26 10:21:03 ** (process:1220): DEBUG (recursed): sound init ok. threaded mainloop started Mar 26 10:21:03 aborting... Mar 26 10:21:03 ** (neod:1220): DEBUG: mainmenu sound state callback. state = 2 Mar 26 10:21:03 run-parts: /etc/X11/Xsession.d/90xXWindowManager exited with return code 1006 Mar 26 10:21:26 those lines are basically what you end up with when X fails to start.. Mar 26 10:21:35 thos: Generate a specific text, to be displayed. and spoof the sender. Mar 26 10:21:48 (each and every) Mar 26 10:21:48 phone # 123457 "generated string" Mar 26 10:21:52 interesting Mar 26 10:21:56 elation, why do you want to spoof the snder? Mar 26 10:21:59 ScaredyCat: fic-gta01 with which images? Mar 26 10:22:21 with my images and for kdean the official ones too Mar 26 10:22:23 thos: To play a trick on people ? Mar 26 10:22:33 fun Mar 26 10:22:45 ok, I'll build a current image and take a look Mar 26 10:22:55 * ScaredyCat hugs mickeyl Mar 26 10:22:56 elation, well, then no Mar 26 10:23:18 * ScaredyCat looks at neod with an evil grin Mar 26 10:23:25 thos: ? Mar 26 10:23:28 thos: What kind of moral answer is that? Mar 26 10:23:58 elation, well, what kind of havoc could you create by spoofing text messages Mar 26 10:24:10 elation, and how would it be responsible for openmoko to include such a feature Mar 26 10:24:42 you can't spoof that because your provider will override the 'from' data Mar 26 10:24:59 unless you use a bulk service account Mar 26 10:25:42 ScaredyCat: I am talking about, when I read the message. Mar 26 10:26:39 errm, the info displayed is what is in the message. Mar 26 10:26:49 You can create a message and save it ... Mar 26 10:26:57 with the info you want to 'read' Mar 26 10:27:23 on the sim Mar 26 10:27:49 or you can rewrite the sms routines... to read a message from a text file or something... Mar 26 10:29:37 ok, I'll build a current image and take a look << finally something :) Mar 26 10:30:07 ahven: a few insults about his baby neod did the trick ;) Mar 26 10:30:20 hehe Mar 26 10:30:21 storing messages on the sim is a bit of an anachronism anyway Mar 26 10:30:39 What languages is the both concept based on ? Mar 26 10:35:51 morning Mar 26 10:38:56 hi TRIsoft Mar 26 10:40:10 mickeyl did you read my message in the oe channel? Mar 26 10:42:30 yep. i'd say go ahead and come up with a proposal of what you'd like to do. then submit this via the gsoc interface Mar 26 10:42:51 ah!! ok, i missed that message :$ Mar 26 10:45:18 hiya gang Mar 26 10:45:23 * torpor awakens Mar 26 10:49:34 whats news folks? Mar 26 10:57:18 morning Mar 26 11:53:18 mickeyl: gsmd2 now supports freesmartphone's dbus api, but there are a few methods I'd like to see added to freesmartphone's api Mar 26 11:53:32 and clarification on most methods Mar 26 11:53:58 ok, emdete and me are listening Mar 26 11:54:18 emdete: (are you?) :) Mar 26 11:54:32 ok, I'll look at my notes Mar 26 11:55:53 Call.Initiate has a parameter called type, is that phonenumber or call type? Mar 26 11:56:31 Call.GetStatus has a in parameter called status and out parameter called index, they should propably be reversed? Mar 26 11:57:06 Initiate has number, type, id Mar 26 11:57:11 number is the phonenumer Mar 26 11:57:24 type is reserved for the future Mar 26 11:57:36 we may want to use this method to initiate fax/data calls Mar 26 11:58:00 wouldn't it be better if data/fax would have their own interface? Mar 26 11:58:12 yes, and they will Mar 26 11:58:27 since call looks like it deals with voice calls Mar 26 11:59:42 agreed. my gut feeling says it might be handy to carry a type with, but ok, lets remove it Mar 26 12:00:07 mickeyl: leave type as GSM might not always be the only way to call in future phones Mar 26 12:00:12 mickeyl: video calls and the like Mar 26 12:00:32 yeah, that's why i had it in mind. i don't want to grow the fs.org API into telepathy though Mar 26 12:00:51 mickeyl: video calls already done on 3g just like normal calls Mar 26 12:00:56 ah, interesting Mar 26 12:01:00 mickeyl: I just press video button on my phone during a call Mar 26 12:01:01 spyre: we should leave it there then Mar 26 12:01:16 then again Mar 26 12:01:18 mickeyl: I dont know how it works behind the scene Mar 26 12:01:19 the prefix is called Mar 26 12:01:24 org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call Mar 26 12:01:28 so this really only refers to GSM calls Mar 26 12:01:47 anyways, i think this is a minor details Mar 26 12:01:48 mickeyl: ah fair enough, the type is explicit there already Mar 26 12:01:56 yep Mar 26 12:02:02 * XorA shuts up again Mar 26 12:02:06 heh, no Mar 26 12:02:09 please talk Mar 26 12:02:09 :) Mar 26 12:02:57 spyre: Call.GetStatus. Agreed. Changing it now Mar 26 12:04:26 what next? Mar 26 12:05:41 mickeyl: could you also add comments to arguments, even the self explanitory ones aswell? :) Mar 26 12:06:10 spyre: well, yes, that's planned, the problem is, i'm not yet sure how to enrich the xml spec Mar 26 12:06:27 Call.Status, should status argument be int aswell? Mar 26 12:06:37 if you look in the impl of pygsmd the name GSM moved to Phone... Mar 26 12:06:40 i will probably just use html comments for now and then we'll see how to make this play nicely with doxygen etc. Mar 26 12:06:41 and which status would you use if you are calling someone and they are busy? Mar 26 12:07:01 emdete: uh oh, that makes it more complicated Mar 26 12:07:07 mickeyl: Any comments is better than none :) Mar 26 12:07:11 emdete: phone is very generic. i thought we want to restrict this to gsm Mar 26 12:07:33 mickeyl: it's just step II towards the otapi where GSM is merged to one interface Mar 26 12:08:05 i thought it this way: assume gsm is an object having different interfaces. one is phone Mar 26 12:08:07 spyre: Call.Status should be string. this is dbus, it does not know about enums, so we better use friendly strings. the '0' and friends are from an earlier version :) Mar 26 12:08:40 i remove the digits from the comment now Mar 26 12:08:54 gsm has 2 more interfaces like sim-auth and network-select Mar 26 12:09:01 mickeyl: Ok and just a clarification, I'm not begin critical, just making sure there are no errors :) Mar 26 12:09:08 sure thing Mar 26 12:09:20 next thing i thought was that even wlan could have these interfaces ... Mar 26 12:09:36 how about GetStatus's arguments directions? Mar 26 12:09:37 emdete: then you grow it into telepathy Mar 26 12:09:46 mickeyl, I was about to say the same thing ;-) Mar 26 12:09:48 spyre: were wrong. swapped these Mar 26 12:09:57 i really want to start simple here Mar 26 12:09:58 gsm only Mar 26 12:10:01 ok, I'll dig more comments Mar 26 12:10:04 all the other stuff is really telepathy Mar 26 12:10:11 i don't know enough about telepathy Mar 26 12:10:16 take a look Mar 26 12:10:26 it's probably what you have in mind for mid-term future Mar 26 12:10:32 i would like to keep it very simple which as far as i heard telepathy is not Mar 26 12:11:08 mickeyl: where is a good starting point to look at telepathy? remember i won't invest too much time Mar 26 12:11:17 look at the dbus interface Mar 26 12:11:21 google for telepathy dbus spec Mar 26 12:11:31 or telepathy.org? Mar 26 12:11:35 and: if you really like just support gsm then why so many different interfaces? Mar 26 12:11:43 http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/spec.html Mar 26 12:11:51 there's a link on fs.org too Mar 26 12:12:23 mickeyl: Sms.SendMessage want_report argument, means that messagesent signal should be sent? Mar 26 12:12:25 how to we signalize "line busy" Mar 26 12:12:52 MembersChanged ([], [removed: the person you're calling], ..., REASON_BUSY) Mar 26 12:13:09 spyre: no, want_report is this report-sms spec Mar 26 12:13:19 is there a impl of telepathy? Mar 26 12:13:19 spyre: you can request a delivery report from the network Mar 26 12:13:28 the point of using telepathy would be to allow you to re-use the same calling/messaging UIs for non-GSM protocols :) Mar 26 12:13:30 mickeyl: oh, ok Mar 26 12:13:50 Robot101: no, i meant how do we signalize it in gsm 07.07 hence in fs.o API Mar 26 12:13:56 i know how you do it in TP Mar 26 12:14:10 spyre, telepathy is already used in the Nokia internet tablets Mar 26 12:14:12 spyre: the signal will be sent regardless Mar 26 12:14:32 emdete: quite a few, yes. telepathy-gabble for XMPP, telepathy-haze for anything supported in libpurple (AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, etc), telepathy-idle for IRC, telepathy-salut for rendezvous/link-local XMPP, telepathy-butterfly for MSN... Mar 26 12:14:56 spyre: ah, found it. busy is signalized using "ReleaseCall" [success / reason] Mar 26 12:14:58 Robot101: used where? Mar 26 12:15:37 mickeyl: isn't that a bit confusing? Mar 26 12:15:51 emdete: the Nokia internet tablets as thos mentioned, also the OLPC laptops, and we're working on the Empathy client for the GNOME desktop Mar 26 12:16:30 spyre: what are your ideas for muxing with gsmd2 ? Mar 26 12:17:59 emdete: gsmd2 has some workarounds for situations where muxing is not available Mar 26 12:18:02 spyre: well, it's based around gsm 07.07. please include that in your RFCs, we can think about that Mar 26 12:18:14 spyre: how that? Mar 26 12:18:31 emdete: we have a command queue, and some commands can override others Mar 26 12:18:54 (so you can hang up a call while there are other longer commands in the queue) Mar 26 12:18:59 spyre: :D hm, i just thought of gprs.. Mar 26 12:19:21 spyre: thats what pygsmd does by default... Mar 26 12:19:40 emdete: we haven't got that far yet, we talked about it, but thought we'd deal with muxing once we get tehre Mar 26 12:20:06 spyre: would you integrate it into gsmd2? Mar 26 12:20:48 spyre: would it be complicate for u to use my muxer? Mar 26 12:21:31 emdete: it is not up to me to decide (unless I do it in my freetime) Mar 26 12:21:57 emdete: and I still have quite a lot of work to do with gsmd, but It'll be a priority Mar 26 12:24:17 emdete's muxer works fine for the neo. Mar 26 12:24:25 question is though how it behaves with other modems Mar 26 12:24:37 we should take a look at qtopia's muxing Mar 26 12:25:09 [2008-03-26 11:58:58] mickeyl: leave type as GSM might not always be the only way to call in future phones Mar 26 12:25:21 errm, you mean like sip etc ... Mar 26 12:25:49 and rather than 'future phones' about, right now phones Mar 26 12:26:01 ScaredyCat: nope, sip is a different place Mar 26 12:26:07 why Mar 26 12:26:13 just make it a call type Mar 26 12:26:25 use the i/f to pick which type to use Mar 26 12:26:30 * XorA wonders why libgsmd would control SIP, but hey ho Mar 26 12:26:49 it's controlling 'dialing' Mar 26 12:27:18 perhaps libcall Mar 26 12:28:06 which would call libgsmd or libsipcall or libsomethingcall depending on what it is Mar 26 12:28:11 I'll shut up then Mar 26 12:28:23 * XorA wraps ScaredyCat in gaffa tape Mar 26 12:28:36 ScaredyCat: there is already telepathy as high level stuff Mar 26 12:28:58 If i had telepathy I would't need to call people Mar 26 12:30:09 mickeyl: any luck with the x issue? Mar 26 12:30:22 build not finished yet Mar 26 12:30:25 nor flashed Mar 26 12:30:26 ! Mar 26 12:30:27 nor tested :) Mar 26 12:30:38 hehe Mar 26 12:30:51 ^--- nervous laughter Mar 26 12:30:51 NOTE: package glibc-2.5-r10: task do_populate_staging: started Mar 26 12:30:53 ... Mar 26 12:31:00 :( Mar 26 12:31:02 looking at mailing list I feel lucky I work faster than arguments Mar 26 12:31:18 ? Mar 26 12:32:08 ooo lots of email today Mar 26 12:36:05 mickeyl: don't mean to be annoying, but I sent you an email w/ the link to my draft application, would you mind looking it over when you've got time? Mar 26 12:36:35 yes. i will do that today Mar 26 12:37:24 alright, thanks :) it's shortish, because I don't really have a technical understanding of either dbus, or gsmd Mar 26 12:37:34 * ScaredyCat giggles at the calculator image name... Mar 26 12:37:42 "Calculating Machine.png" Mar 26 12:38:39 sounds chinese Mar 26 12:39:25 sounds like a big ass machine! Mar 26 12:39:40 with lots of cogs Mar 26 12:39:49 whurring and clicking Mar 26 12:40:05 Dr Theopolis' Calculating Machine Mar 26 12:40:10 :D Mar 26 12:42:08 openmoko: 03thomas * r4253 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/dialer/dialer-main.c): Mar 26 12:42:08 openmoko: 2008-03-26 Thomas Wood Mar 26 12:42:08 openmoko: * src/dialer/dialer-main.c: (main): Name the main window for use in Mar 26 12:42:08 openmoko: theming Mar 26 12:42:46 mickeyl: the muxer already worked on a greenphone... Mar 26 12:43:00 which modem is that? Mar 26 12:44:16 openmoko: 03thomas * r4254 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/openmoko-dialer: theme: set the dialer window background to black Mar 26 12:45:22 mickeyl: don't remember. Mar 26 12:45:42 heh Mar 26 12:45:43 ljp: ? Mar 26 12:48:06 openmoko: 03werner * r4255 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/remap-vec.patch: Mar 26 12:48:06 openmoko: remap-vec.patch: Mar 26 12:48:06 openmoko: - board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c (board_init): we always use the remapping on Mar 26 12:48:06 openmoko: GTA02, not only when booting from NOR Mar 26 12:49:46 I have not been able to build an OM image in the last week. It's like if the build tools in "moko/build/tmp/staging/x86_64-linux/bin" were not accessible. Have someone seen this behavior? Mar 26 12:50:41 jmichel: new on me Mar 26 12:50:45 jmichel: got logs? Mar 26 12:54:12 I just put the log in http://pastebin.ca/958039 Mar 26 12:58:09 roflmao ! Mar 26 12:58:22 "The objective is to make a notable change in the standard of living of Mar 26 12:58:22  People all around the Universe" Mar 26 12:58:31 a lofty goal! Mar 26 12:59:28 XorA: If I add "moko/build/tmp/staging/x86_64-linux/bin" in my PATH it gets a little farther but then I get an error with autoconf as shown in http://pastebin.ca/958042 Mar 26 13:00:17 jmichel: I've seen that oe_sha256sum issue previously in #oe and I think, that the fix was to rfm -fr tmp/cache Mar 26 13:00:27 but I'm not sure Mar 26 13:01:54 ynezz: I erased completely my tmp folder and I still get the error Mar 26 13:06:43 jmichel: hm, strange Mar 26 13:09:48 yahaa! openmoko is booting on qemu :D Mar 26 13:12:46 jmichel: Im puzzled Mar 26 13:13:04 mathroc: coool ;) Mar 26 13:14:46 I guess I just ti have to look on the wiki to get start ^^ Mar 26 13:15:26 first: get it connected with my pc and then get a shell Mar 26 13:32:24 Greetings Mar 26 13:33:00 yo mwester image builds should work again Mar 26 13:33:11 mwester: you need to nuke tmp/ though :-( Mar 26 13:33:51 hehe! :) I'm growing used to that. DW is out of town, I think I shall steal her quad-core Photoshop machine. Mar 26 13:34:00 heh heh Mar 26 13:34:02 Thanks. Mar 26 13:50:54 * mwester reads an email that confirms OM has PHBs just like every other company. Mar 26 13:51:21 PHBs? Mar 26 13:51:22 XorA: Like you don't have more important things to do than gratuitous name changes. Mar 26 13:51:59 PHB == Pointy-Haired Boss http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/dilbert/ Mar 26 13:52:12 Got it. :) Mar 26 13:52:13 mwester: link? Mar 26 13:52:24 Yeah, I've seen thw writing on the wall. ;) Mar 26 13:52:36 writing on the wall? Mar 26 13:52:40 whiskey tango foxtrot? Mar 26 13:53:04 xcasex, Is that an American idiom? :p Mar 26 13:53:16 writing on the wall... Hrm.. Mar 26 13:53:30 i'm swedish, learnt it in service down in the balkans, so it must be international :p Mar 26 13:53:56 xcasex, No, I meant the term "writing on the wall". I didn't realize that it wasn't commonly understood. :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_writing_on_the_wall Mar 26 13:54:05 ah. the saying. Mar 26 13:55:27 xcasex: lists.openmoko.org doesn't have the email yet; they're on the distro-devel mailing list. No big deal, just a name change from "fic-*" to "om-*" Mar 26 13:56:00 mwester: aha Mar 26 13:57:11 mwester and xcasex - This one? http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/distro-devel/2008-March/000287.html Mar 26 13:57:47 Yep. Mar 26 13:59:56 so we're dropping gta01 as a supported device as well eh? Mar 26 14:01:09 No, I don't think that's the case at all. Mar 26 14:01:19 you mean it was ever supported :P Mar 26 14:09:15 mwester: rename is done in OE.dev, Ill propgate it to openmoko tomorrow .tw time Mar 26 14:09:33 anyway I need food and sleep bye Mar 26 14:09:36 Do you test by building oe.dev ? Mar 26 14:09:50 mwester: yes build is 95% complete with no errors Mar 26 14:10:29 Ah, ok. I was going to offer to do a test if it was easy to setup, but if you're almost done that's cool. Mar 26 14:10:42 anyway really going to run, but thanks for the offer Mar 26 14:17:30 I'm trying to write an application for the google summer of code, I look at an example provides by google and there is a lot of description in it. I want to work on the 'Accellerometers gestures library' but I don't know if I have enough information, I can't really think of how I would do it (either the programming language or I will manage my planning) Mar 26 14:17:56 do you think I can still submit this application ? Mar 26 14:18:37 I guess they can always deny you... Mar 26 14:18:50 if they don't think you'll be able to do it Mar 26 14:19:56 * LuitvD will file an application too this time Mar 26 14:20:21 (I wanted to apply last year, but I wasn't old enough XD ) Mar 26 14:22:58 ^^ I think I'll be able to do this kind of works, but I can't explain yet how I would it :s Mar 26 14:23:18 mathroc, that's probably okay, depending on who is rating the applications Mar 26 14:23:21 what component in OM contains the source for playing the touch "clicks" sound? Mar 26 14:23:44 I know that in previous years I've seen in the timeline that the Community Bonding Period is used as a time to learn the proper tools and backgruond knowledge to complete the task Mar 26 14:24:01 In fact, that's what 4 of my applications this year have said (I mentored last year, am a student this year) Mar 26 14:24:47 masquerade, ah ok, great, I will submit something soon I think :) Mar 26 14:24:53 yay Mar 26 14:25:07 * LuitvD starts to write the application Mar 26 14:25:14 Also, fwiw, I would say that you're probably gonna write something like that in C, as the speed will likely be important. Mar 26 14:25:34 (I'll be more than driven to work on the EZX-related project) Mar 26 14:25:51 * ScaredyCat thinks we should just chane names of things randomly... Mar 26 14:26:19 I'm thinking of submitting a proposal for doing Ambient Noise Detection and Speakerphone Mar 26 14:26:28 that's not a problem, I use C a lot in my studies or personnal projects Mar 26 14:26:33 next week we can have om-fic-moko-open-gta01 and om-fic-moko-open-gt02 Mar 26 14:27:31 i'm leaving, I'll probably see you soon Mar 26 14:30:14 Really cool use idea for the accelerometer. If the phone is detected to be falling, if there is anything like an sms or e-mail being worked on, quickly save it as a draft Mar 26 14:30:15 l Mar 26 14:30:23 that way, when your battery pops out, you don't lose it all. :) Mar 26 14:30:38 nice :P Mar 26 14:30:41 .. I don; think I've read an email from Wolfgang that hasn't made sense... Mar 26 14:31:27 masquerade, haha nice idea ;) or pop out a parachute =) Mar 26 14:31:29 although, I think his first response should have been 'WTF!' and then a slapping sound and a thud as Sean hit the floor Mar 26 14:31:51 maroi, or an all-around airbag. :) Mar 26 14:32:39 XorA|gone: are you renameing in the wiki too... :P Mar 26 14:33:10 Hell, why not just have a chip installed in your head that communicates over bluetooth with the phone which receives a signal from your phone when its dropping and shocks your brain forcing your arm to move so rapidly that you catch the phone. :) Mar 26 14:37:22 why not build the phone into your head Mar 26 14:38:31 why not replace your head with a phone Mar 26 14:38:55 why not replace your phone with a head Mar 26 14:39:17 same thing ... Mar 26 14:39:30 dude! Mar 26 14:39:32 why not swallow your phone, with bt turned on... Mar 26 14:39:34 best idea ever. Mar 26 14:39:47 let's make realistic, head-shaped and sized cellphones Mar 26 14:39:56 when you have a conversation with someone, your head actually talks to you Mar 26 14:40:06 ScaredyCat: that made me think of Family Guy :P Mar 26 14:40:07 moves its lips and all Mar 26 14:40:14 with microphones in the ear and speakers in the mouth Mar 26 14:40:18 :D Mar 26 14:40:46 i think someone would buy that ;) Mar 26 14:41:26 peter griffin Mar 26 14:41:40 exactly Mar 26 14:41:56 one could become a perfect ventriloquist... Mar 26 14:43:01 bbl Mar 26 14:43:05 dudes. the obvious solution is: optimus helmet w. built in phone. Mar 26 14:43:05 [2008-03-26 14:08:04] mwester: rename is done in OE.dev, Ill propgate it to openmoko tomorrow .tw time Mar 26 14:43:07 mmmmm Mar 26 14:43:10 how awesome wouldnt that be Mar 26 14:43:28 xcasex: already exists afaik Mar 26 14:43:40 optimus helmet yes, not with built in phone Mar 26 14:44:05 helmet with phone too, but not an optimus one Mar 26 14:44:26 so if one could press the two together hard enough... *fg* Mar 26 14:44:36 with build in keyboard, with oleds for keys Mar 26 14:45:04 optimus.. prime.. Mar 26 14:45:13 FREEDOM IS THE RIGHT OF ALL SENTIENT BEINGS - optimus Mar 26 14:45:23 not "zomg blinkenlights" optimus Mar 26 14:45:35 lol Mar 26 14:45:40 :( Mar 26 14:46:03 ScaredyCat: sometimes you're way too far off course for popculture references :( Mar 26 14:46:22 * ScaredyCat is too old now Mar 26 14:46:35 i'm 27, how old are you? ;) Mar 26 14:47:07 40 Mar 26 14:47:13 just Mar 26 14:47:18 it's sad Mar 26 14:47:27 * ScaredyCat starts sobbing Mar 26 14:47:35 more older == more better!!!11 Mar 26 14:47:56 You know that picture, with the fat naked guy with the beard? Mar 26 14:47:59 That's me.. Mar 26 14:48:13 only less fat and no beard... Mar 26 14:48:31 but I am naked... dancing Mar 26 14:48:33 aww come 'ere yuo ;) Mar 26 14:48:43 thos: btw. did you look at ScaredyCats theme? Mar 26 14:48:51 he doesn't like it Mar 26 14:49:01 it's not a 'real' theme Mar 26 14:49:05 xcasex, yes, it's default gtk with some pretty colours :-) Mar 26 14:49:24 aw come on. Mar 26 14:49:31 I created a completely flat theme based on the same colours Mar 26 14:49:34 ScaredyCat: base it on the "smooth" theme engine, he'll love that Mar 26 14:49:44 uh Mar 26 14:49:50 anyway Mar 26 14:50:03 I have a huge patch in my svn checkout Mar 26 14:50:08 to moko-gtk-engine Mar 26 14:50:16 which basically removes anything fancy at all Mar 26 14:50:20 O_o Mar 26 14:50:22 no gradients, no borders Mar 26 14:50:26 black on black Mar 26 14:50:29 give us a look see Mar 26 14:50:53 xcasex, it's pretty much the same as ScaredyCat's, but without the really thin borders Mar 26 14:51:00 oic Mar 26 14:51:48 Oooh - something that would be faster? Mar 26 14:52:19 well, X is fairly well optimised for painting solid rectangles, so yeah... Mar 26 14:53:16 lol Mar 26 14:53:32 you know what i'd love? Mar 26 14:53:47 being able to use the gta01 as something other than a sms gateway :p Mar 26 14:53:53 Perfect - I like flat rectangles, especially if they move fast. :) Mar 26 14:54:23 what! Mar 26 14:54:37 when the 02 comes out that's what my 01 will become! Mar 26 14:54:42 smsd ftw! Mar 26 14:57:02 xmppd + smsd = win? Mar 26 14:59:39 == perversion of doom Mar 26 14:59:54 zash: are you dropping by the meetup tonight? Mar 26 15:00:12 si Mar 26 15:00:13 openmoko: 03thomas * r4256 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/gtkrc: theme: add a style for multi-tap pad and set to white on black Mar 26 15:01:18 zash: most excellent Mar 26 15:03:55 What program running on the Neo is actually responsible for the screen locker (with the sliding logo)? Mar 26 15:04:28 hello, I'm a student interesed in some GSoC projects Mar 26 15:04:36 orospakr: neod Mar 26 15:04:54 ScaredyCat, oh, neod is an X client? Mar 26 15:06:10 Paulie: they're all mine, you can't have any :D Mar 26 15:06:37 yes orospakr Mar 26 15:06:52 ScaredyCat, OK. thanks. :) Mar 26 15:07:01 summatusmentis: you can only participate to one project, so i'll give it a try :P Mar 26 15:07:11 lol, fair enough Mar 26 15:07:13 openmoko/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/daemons/neod/ Mar 26 15:07:18 but first of all i'll need some hardware Mar 26 15:07:20 orospakr: ^^ Mar 26 15:07:31 btw, has anyone successfully gotten d-feet on a laptop to talk to the d-bus daemon on the neo? Mar 26 15:07:41 Paulie: emulator Mar 26 15:07:58 ScaredyCat: it's wicked slow(qemu-1973) Mar 26 15:08:12 is that ok for a SoC project ? Mar 26 15:08:42 i'm meen I'm willing to buy some hardware Mar 26 15:08:44 summatusmentis, so is the actual device :-P Mar 26 15:09:01 * * OM Bug 1300 has been created by andrew(AT)orospakr.ca Mar 26 15:09:02 * * Screen Locker should display useful information Mar 26 15:09:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1300 Mar 26 15:09:03 Paulie: you can't buy the hardware atm Mar 26 15:09:22 ScaredyCat: that's too bad :( Mar 26 15:09:59 if you are accpeted for it though, they have said that they will supply units Mar 26 15:10:09 thos: can't be nearly as slow. Mar 26 15:10:12 ScaredyCat: really?!? Mar 26 15:10:13 :-D Mar 26 15:10:19 probably not to everyone Mar 26 15:10:27 although I think that's only for people not called summatusmentis Mar 26 15:10:38 : Mar 26 15:10:39 :P Mar 26 15:10:49 all better now Mar 26 15:10:51 thos: My experience with the emulator was that it is orders of magnitude slower than the device. I mean, literally orders of magnitude. Mar 26 15:10:53 there's a message about it on list somewhere... Mar 26 15:11:09 depends on the host wurp2|away Mar 26 15:11:10 I'm guessing that there's some odd config issue that makes it much slower on some people's machines than others. Mar 26 15:11:20 ScaredyCat: that would be cool :D Mar 26 15:11:32 i'm interesed in the Ambient Noise Detection project Mar 26 15:11:33 well, it's not up to me, I just read it... Mar 26 15:11:38 ScaredyCat: how recent? I assume you have to give the device back too Mar 26 15:11:45 dunno.. Mar 26 15:11:59 maybe that'd what they'll use those test run devices for Mar 26 15:12:20 are there any other students interested about it ? Mar 26 15:12:50 yes, there are a few.. most seem to want to play with accelerometers, so at least you've chosen somethig different :D Mar 26 15:13:10 ScaredyCat: ok Mar 26 15:13:12 get in touch with mickeyl ... I think he's the daddy Mar 26 15:13:17 for Gsoc Mar 26 15:13:32 damn - I should have gotten my GTA01 accel boards done. Mar 26 15:13:34 ok, I will Mar 26 15:13:48 there's some talk on the mailing lists Mar 26 15:13:54 you might want to chek that out too Mar 26 15:14:11 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/ Mar 26 15:14:18 is it mandatory to have used OpenMoko before ? Mar 26 15:14:19 probably the community list Mar 26 15:14:25 don;t think so Mar 26 15:15:02 I never used it but I saw the idea page and I' m very excited about it :) Mar 26 15:15:21 Paulie: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2008 Mar 26 15:15:25 that one? Mar 26 15:15:30 Paulie: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-March/014349.html Mar 26 15:15:39 thats something im always wondering about: does a gsoc student have the time to get used to the code environment of the project? Mar 26 15:15:47 ScaredyCat: yep Mar 26 15:16:42 ScaredyCat: that's exciting! presumably we'd have to give the freerunners back at the end, but that'd still be awesome! Mar 26 15:17:30 I wouldn't mind buying one :P Mar 26 15:17:40 I don;t know tbh... I just thought that it might be an efficient use of the test units.. I hve no say in the matter... I'm a bot really. I just regurgitate stuff ;) Mar 26 15:17:55 lol Mar 26 15:18:33 Paulie: it looks like he says if they're not available for sale yet, students would get a dev unit, otherwise, I suppose they might supply sale-worthy units, but I don't really know Mar 26 15:19:01 * * OM Bug 1301 has been created by andrew(AT)orospakr.ca Mar 26 15:19:02 * * Wrong keyboard displayed for phone number entry in Contacts Mar 26 15:19:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1301 Mar 26 15:19:50 summatusmentis: I'm still hopeing I'll own one someday Mar 26 15:20:03 of course... Mar 26 15:20:16 summer... implies post-April.... Mar 26 15:20:41 summatusmentis: what did you applyed for ? Mar 26 15:20:55 I mean what project ? Mar 26 15:25:40 heh, I'm on a bug-filing roll here. :) Mar 26 15:26:01 * * OM Bug 1302 has been created by andrew(AT)orospakr.ca Mar 26 15:26:02 * * "1" and "0" characters missing from associated keys Mar 26 15:26:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1302 Mar 26 15:26:16 as long as you'r enot filling rolls with bugs Mar 26 15:28:13 Paulie: it's not listed on the project site, but I want to build ophoned, w/ gsmd backend, dbus glue, and a standard API based on freesmartphone.org Mar 26 15:29:26 xcasex, http://folks.o-hand.com/thomas/moko-gtk-engine-new.png Mar 26 15:29:49 It still looks like it's doing gradients Mar 26 15:30:21 !! Mar 26 15:30:27 mwester, something is wrong with your screen then Mar 26 15:30:41 Right at the top, the background to "Dialer" Mar 26 15:30:44 mwester, or are you talking about the titlebar Mar 26 15:30:46 oh Mar 26 15:30:52 well that doesn't count Mar 26 15:31:03 That takes no CPU? Mar 26 15:31:19 mwester, it only gets drawn once Mar 26 15:31:21 I love the dialer app look,though -- clean, crisp, professional. Mar 26 15:31:23 thos: nearly zero contrast there between the black and gray Mar 26 15:31:37 (I've got a nice glare on that monitor though) Mar 26 15:31:48 Qwell, depends how your screen is calibrated, but I would tend to agree Mar 26 15:31:52 ((but the neo would have glare too)) Mar 26 15:32:11 Qwell, on the neo I think there is more contrast (see ScaredyCat's earlier theme) Mar 26 15:32:48 that +, p, w, have got to go :p Mar 26 15:32:55 that'll confuse the hell out of people Mar 26 15:33:17 maybe p should go Mar 26 15:33:22 I think w works? Mar 26 15:33:25 or is it the other way round Mar 26 15:33:30 dunno, ask gsmd Mar 26 15:33:33 they all "work" Mar 26 15:33:47 what do they do? Mar 26 15:33:51 when you actually dial Mar 26 15:34:08 + is for international dial, no matter where you are. ie; you don't need to put 001 into the number Mar 26 15:34:09 pause and wobble Mar 26 15:34:17 p is a pause, w...I forget what w does Mar 26 15:34:18 001? Mar 26 15:34:21 00 Mar 26 15:34:21 011? Mar 26 15:34:40 I never dial int, so I forget the code :p Mar 26 15:34:53 it varies by country though, so + is supposed to always work Mar 26 15:34:58 00 = i want international dialing 1 = international code for usa + canada (eh) Mar 26 15:35:06 Qwell, the dialer just sends the string to gsmd Mar 26 15:35:12 ScaredyCat: I'm talking from the US. Mar 26 15:35:14 Qwell, so I have no idea what gsmd does with it Mar 26 15:35:21 Qwell, ie. if it recognises p or w or not Mar 26 15:35:25 it should Mar 26 15:35:30 Qwell: then you wouldn;t dial 001 Mar 26 15:35:34 muppet Mar 26 15:35:44 actually you should Mar 26 15:35:47 always Mar 26 15:35:59 011 Mar 26 15:36:17 so that when you go out of the us you can dial home etc with the same contact Mar 26 15:36:20 w = wait? Mar 26 15:36:29 oh! Mar 26 15:36:30 00 Mar 26 15:36:31 zash, p = pause Mar 26 15:36:32 p = pulse, w = wait Mar 26 15:36:38 pulse? Mar 26 15:36:40 I think :p Mar 26 15:36:58 what does that do Mar 26 15:37:08 retro pulse dialing? Mar 26 15:37:13 haha Mar 26 15:37:13 that's old wold dialing Mar 26 15:37:16 world Mar 26 15:37:23 not really relavant on gsm Mar 26 15:37:26 but surely gsm can't do that Mar 26 15:37:44 !spell relevent Mar 26 15:37:49 !relevant Mar 26 15:37:51 but anyways, not really useful to actually have those visible on the dialer Mar 26 15:37:53 Well, just based on this discussion, one needs the manual to figure out what +,p,w do -- so maybe they shouldn't be on the dialer by default. Mar 26 15:37:54 bah Mar 26 15:38:02 p is a pause Mar 26 15:38:18 guys, i just noticed, all bugzilla events are getting sent to me....did i enable something i shouldn't have? Mar 26 15:38:30 Well, fix some of them! Mar 26 15:38:32 Sup3rkiddo: they go to the mailing list Mar 26 15:38:59 ScaredyCat, lol, yeah...didnt check the "From" field Mar 26 15:39:06 mwester, :D Mar 26 15:39:44 mwester, + and p are fairly standard on mobile phones Mar 26 15:39:57 w == p? Mar 26 15:40:02 mwester, if anything, I think w should go Mar 26 15:40:04 ScaredyCat: quite possibly Mar 26 15:40:21 hahha! I found a new bug Mar 26 15:42:15 What would it look like with a thin white line on the right and bottom of each button? Mar 26 15:42:28 Too cluttered? Mar 26 15:42:43 upsidedown? Mar 26 15:43:00 :p Mar 26 15:43:06 white liney? Mar 26 15:43:30 Or maybe just lower the asterisk on the button to make it clear that the asterisk and + are the same buttom... Mar 26 15:43:39 oh Mar 26 15:43:49 p and w are pause and wait - but they are different Mar 26 15:44:13 p is (usually) a 2 second pause, and wait will...wait. on some phones, you can put digits after the w, and the rest of the digits won't be sent until you hit talk again Mar 26 15:45:25 are there public logs of this channel? Mar 26 15:45:42 ~log Mar 26 15:45:42 methinks log is as piece of wood, or a record, or the opposite of exponentiation Mar 26 15:45:49 ~logs Mar 26 15:45:50 rumour has it, logs is apt/ibot/infobot/jbot/purl all log daily to http://ibot.rikers.org// where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/.html.gz Mar 26 15:50:20 zash: is there anything more current? Mar 26 15:50:40 i think there is Mar 26 15:50:43 cdbot2: logs Mar 26 15:51:09 check the wiki Mar 26 15:51:27 summatusmentis: your project seams interesting Mar 26 15:51:31 Sup3rkiddo: ScaredyCat yesterday seemed to think gsmd2 was a decent option, as qtmux/gsmd was easily extractable Mar 26 15:51:50 Paulie: it's currently in hardcore limbo, might not be able to pin it down until after the deadline :-/ Mar 26 15:52:02 summatusmentis: but did you see that last year OpenMoko only got 2 slots :( Mar 26 15:52:04 * Sup3rkiddo nods in agreement Mar 26 15:52:04 !logs Mar 26 15:52:06 Channel logs for #openmoko are archived at: Mar 26 15:52:07 http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/%23openmoko Mar 26 15:52:08 Live-logs are available at Mar 26 15:52:09 http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/livelogs/%23openmoko.livelog Mar 26 15:52:11 See ?? help-logs for usage instructions Mar 26 15:52:15 Sup3rkiddo: sorry, not easily extractable Mar 26 15:52:29 ScaredyCat: thanks! Mar 26 15:53:43 Sup3rkiddo: the discussion w/ ixonos was in #openmoko? Mar 26 15:53:59 Paulie: yeah, I know. That's the issue. I don't know how google decides how many slots each project gets Mar 26 15:54:01 yeah Mar 26 15:54:43 summatusmentis, from what i asked around in #gsoc, the size of the communty is one of the main criteria Mar 26 15:55:00 * * OM Bug 1303 has been created by scaredycat(AT)automated.it Mar 26 15:55:02 * * Dialer + ins't translated to 00 so contact sort cuts don't work Mar 26 15:55:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1303 Mar 26 15:55:27 I would say the community is probably bigger than last year, at least Mar 26 15:55:55 ScaredyCat, pooor Mar 26 15:56:06 ScaredyCat, you need to clean your keyboard Mar 26 15:56:33 too much kibble between the keys Mar 26 15:56:56 :-/ can't find the ixonos discussion Mar 26 15:57:54 summatusmentis: the ixonos docs are on mybh Mar 26 15:57:57 my bh Mar 26 15:58:26 what is bh? Mar 26 15:58:33 http://buildhost.automated.it/ Mar 26 15:58:43 oh, buildhost, I get it Mar 26 15:58:56 * ScaredyCat stabs summatusmentis with a fork Mar 26 15:59:02 OW! Mar 26 15:59:26 ScaredyCat: according to Sup3rkiddo there was a discussion w/ the ixonos guys earlier Mar 26 15:59:39 * spyre works at ixonos Mar 26 15:59:40 today? Mar 26 16:00:15 summatusmentis, ah, spyre was the one... :D Mar 26 16:00:16 apparently #some_number_of_hours ago Mar 26 16:00:20 That gsmd2 snapshot is pretty old, hopefully within this week we'll put a more recent and a better version to freesmartphone's svn Mar 26 16:00:31 [2008-03-26 11:52:08] mickeyl: gsmd2 now supports freesmartphone's dbus api, but there are a few methods I'd like to see added to freesmartphone's api Mar 26 16:00:33 (or I assume its old) Mar 26 16:00:42 summatusmentis, ^^ Mar 26 16:00:52 I'm seeing it, I'm seeing it! :-) Mar 26 16:01:30 spyre: and those methods are not included in gsmd2, thus aren't supported by fs.o ? Mar 26 16:02:06 summatusmentis: quite the opposite, gsmd2 has some functionality that fs.o's api doesn't support atm Mar 26 16:02:20 gsmd2 doesn't fully implement the fs.o api.. just to make things clear Mar 26 16:02:23 spyre, does gsmd2 have a home page? Mar 26 16:02:33 spyre, is there someplace i can get hold of the code Mar 26 16:02:38 *now* Mar 26 16:02:41 :P Mar 26 16:03:14 It doesn't have a homepage and you cant get hold of the code yet Mar 26 16:03:19 spyre: I see, so it'd be a matter of making gsmd2 match the API, and then matching the API to the leftover gsmd2 stuff? Mar 26 16:03:44 summatusmentis: yes, if it makes sense. This is to be discussed with mickeyl Mar 26 16:04:03 I've been trying to discuss things w/ mickeyl for a couple of days now, but he's a busy man Mar 26 16:04:23 that he is :) Mar 26 16:04:34 are you gsoc coder? Mar 26 16:04:41 hoping to be, yes Mar 26 16:04:48 summatusmentis: didn't you want to do the device daemon? Mar 26 16:04:55 device daemon != phone daemon Mar 26 16:04:56 :) Mar 26 16:05:00 mickeyl: then I'm confused Mar 26 16:05:13 lol, I would be willing to do one or the other Mar 26 16:05:18 both! Mar 26 16:05:23 * ScaredyCat gets the whip out Mar 26 16:05:27 Sup3rkiddo can do one if he wants Mar 26 16:05:28 phone daemon deals with telephony Mar 26 16:05:56 I'd rather not do phone, because I'm pretty unfamilar w/ all the AT stuff(not that I'm necessarily more familiar with device stuff) Mar 26 16:05:57 device daemon deals with I/O, wake ups, idle and lock screen, power control,. etc. Mar 26 16:06:40 yep..me and summatusmentis and exchange some code for GSoC, we were plotting on ophoned but apparently thats done :D Mar 26 16:06:55 mickeyl: I got confused because of some conversation I had yesterday, w/ either Sup3rkiddo or yourself. Someone asked what HAL had to do w/ it, which confused me Mar 26 16:06:57 hello mickeyl , do you think Ambient Noise Detection will make it to SoC if only a few solts are received from Google Mar 26 16:07:06 whoevr thought out that horrid amber / black scheme needs to stand accountable for his actions :p Mar 26 16:07:36 * Sup3rkiddo points to mickeyl for HAL Mar 26 16:07:44 alright, on the count of three, we're all going to bombard mickeyl with as many questions as possible Mar 26 16:08:21 3 Mar 26 16:08:21 Paulie: probably not. I'm afraid this is of lesser priority Mar 26 16:08:50 xcasex: the new one? Mar 26 16:08:55 if at all, HAL only has to do with device daemon Mar 26 16:09:02 ScaredyCat: dunno how new it is :p Mar 26 16:09:05 in that case that we probably won't use it Mar 26 16:09:07 ;) Mar 26 16:09:17 spyre, so no website, and no source code Mar 26 16:09:23 spyre, smells like vapour ware! Mar 26 16:09:29 xcasex: http://blog.automated.it/2008/03/22/just-my-imagination/ Mar 26 16:09:44 roflmao thos Mar 26 16:09:45 ScaredyCat: read it :) Mar 26 16:09:51 that one? Mar 26 16:09:53 mickeyl: so the device daemon shouldn't use HAL? that's sort of what was being discussed in Angstrom, as an easy way to get a working device daemon Mar 26 16:09:55 or the original Mar 26 16:10:41 colour shceme Mar 26 16:10:43 ssksks Mar 26 16:10:43 summatusmentis: my feeling is that HAL has problems on embedded systems. these i want to overcome by doing the device daemon independently. If we can merge it lateron into HAL it would be cool, but I don't see that atm. Mar 26 16:11:07 ok, that's fair. Do we have some sort of basis for a device daemon? or not really? Mar 26 16:11:30 question: device daemon == the present neod? Mar 26 16:11:32 no, we don't. only lots of ideas Mar 26 16:11:42 and some goals Mar 26 16:11:57 Sup3rkiddo: yes, neod is yet another non-generic device daemon incarnation Mar 26 16:12:01 throw-away code Mar 26 16:12:12 lol, oh, so it's a bigger project than my confused state of gsmd stuff would have been Mar 26 16:12:20 the odeviced needs to make all of these device-specific device daemons obsolete Mar 26 16:12:29 see the freesmartphone.org page Mar 26 16:12:35 it describes what odeviced should be Mar 26 16:13:17 mickeyl, odeviced could be a worthy GSoC project, me and summatusmentis can work on different parts... Mar 26 16:13:53 do you know Vala? Mar 26 16:14:02 Sup3rkiddo: the issue with that, depending on how we split it, is that we don't want a project that is dependent on another project Mar 26 16:14:07 i know what it is, but i havent used it Mar 26 16:14:52 close enough to C/C++? Mar 26 16:15:19 summatusmentis, hmm...well i was of the impression thats good, there might be exchange of ideas Mar 26 16:15:34 well, vala reminds me of c# Mar 26 16:16:01 Sup3rkiddo, not really suprising Mar 26 16:16:11 Sup3rkiddo, since that's largely the intention :-) Mar 26 16:16:18 Sup3rkiddo: yeah, it can be, but what happens if for whatever reason one of us doesn't complete their portion of the project? then OM is left w/ half of a project Mar 26 16:16:36 summatusmentis, you have a valid point there..:D Mar 26 16:17:01 thos, bleh..i thought that was an accidental "feature" Mar 26 16:17:18 I don't 'speak' c#, more 'fluent' in c++/c/java Mar 26 16:17:45 Sup3rkiddo, "The syntax of Vala is similar to C#, modified to better fit the GObject type system. " Mar 26 16:17:55 http://live.gnome.org/Vala/DBusSample <- looks straightforward though Mar 26 16:18:25 is vala ready ? Mar 26 16:18:37 the status suggests noy Mar 26 16:18:38 thos, i knew the GObject part but not the C# one...bleh Mar 26 16:18:49 Sup3rkiddo, why bleh? Mar 26 16:18:56 Sup3rkiddo, what's wrong with C# syntax? Mar 26 16:19:22 thos, for one, i dont know c#..;) Mar 26 16:19:32 fair enough Mar 26 16:19:33 Sup3rkiddo: to many brackets? Mar 26 16:19:34 version 0.1.7 ? Mar 26 16:20:11 oups that was for thos ... Mar 26 16:20:52 mickeyl: since i'm now on track, feel free to ignore my previous email. Is there a way to split odeviced between two people, and have the projects be independent? Mar 26 16:21:30 plugin arch! Mar 26 16:21:37 well, it's plugin based Mar 26 16:21:41 one project could be framework Mar 26 16:21:49 the other one could be plugins that mimick the behaviour of Mar 26 16:21:52 neod, zaurusd, food, bard Mar 26 16:22:02 mmm, food Mar 26 16:22:04 i'm not sure what happens if only one project gets accepted though Mar 26 16:22:11 besides, they are not independent Mar 26 16:22:19 without the framework, the plugins are well... Mar 26 16:22:24 so this is complicated Mar 26 16:22:24 ....borked Mar 26 16:22:33 can't you attach deps ? Mar 26 16:24:02 Sup3rkiddo: according to google, it has to be separate projects for each student, but you probably knew that Mar 26 16:24:29 summatusmentis, yeah i knew that, but i could still help around outside GSoC Mar 26 16:25:02 I don't want either of us to not be accepted at the expense of the other, you know? Mar 26 16:25:31 =) *sniff* Mar 26 16:25:58 lol <3 Sup3rkiddo Mar 26 16:26:08 hey, I've gotta head out, be back in a few Mar 26 16:27:36 "Google allocates a particular number of student slots to each organization;" <--- why isn;t that transparent? Mar 26 16:28:36 ScaredyCat, i have been trying to get the answer but i get pointed to the faqs :D Mar 26 16:29:19 that's the only mention of it in the faqs Mar 26 16:29:27 yeah Mar 26 16:29:39 hi all Mar 26 16:30:02 i don't remember how to get stats on battery Mar 26 16:30:07 somewhere in /sys/ Mar 26 16:30:53 ah maybe here /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0008 Mar 26 16:31:47 how to be sure that it is charging? Mar 26 16:32:01 qtopia does not show it's charging Mar 26 16:32:13 ok, back Mar 26 16:32:17 did I miss any enlightening mickeyl words of wisdom? Mar 26 16:32:32 and "cat chgcur" is giving very oscillating values Mar 26 16:34:21 also battemp is giving me 2342, which seems quite hot. Mar 26 16:34:47 http://folks.o-hand.com/thomas/moko-gtk-engine-new-contacts.png http://folks.o-hand.com/thomas/moko-gtk-engine-new-contacts-edit.png Mar 26 16:35:05 ScaredyCat, more amusement ^ Mar 26 16:35:46 openmoko-devel mailing list reply time... Mar 26 16:36:27 thos: is there any release of this theme (without gradients)? Mar 26 16:36:48 bedboi, well, as soon as I type "svn commit" :-) Mar 26 16:37:33 can you get rid of the gradient in the title Mar 26 16:38:08 ScaredyCat, that's in the matchbox theme Mar 26 16:38:21 it also remain obscure to me how the battery is managed. I was used to battery voodoos back in the h54xx times Mar 26 16:38:21 so, kill it... kill it now... Mar 26 16:38:31 ScaredyCat, ask the man in charge :-) Mar 26 16:38:32 ScaredyCat: ehehe, yep i agree Mar 26 16:38:39 i fucking hate gradients Mar 26 16:38:42 * mwester checks out the new theme, and likes it muchly Mar 26 16:38:49 thos: which one? ;) Mar 26 16:39:01 ScaredyCat, well, if you can find one, you're doing better than me Mar 26 16:39:25 plus they are CPU hogs Mar 26 16:39:31 surely the man in charge is the last one to svn commit :) Mar 26 16:39:31 new stabe images? (during the past two weeks, that is) Mar 26 16:39:32 Somebody fix the theme, and I'll find somebody to commit it. Mar 26 16:39:51 mwester, you can dl mine Mar 26 16:40:00 or wait for thos's comit Mar 26 16:40:00 For matchbox? Mar 26 16:40:19 matchbox + gtk replaced Mar 26 16:40:22 in mine Mar 26 16:40:37 'replaced' Mar 26 16:40:42 Ok - so all we need is a matchbox theme that maches thos' work, and we're good. Mar 26 16:40:42 changed more like Mar 26 16:41:24 thos: dl mine, take the matchbox theme and add it to yours :) Mar 26 16:43:49 is the power management still to be improved? Mar 26 16:44:04 (to go above 5h of usage) Mar 26 16:44:39 it has... so lond as you have the super battery pack ;) Mar 26 16:44:44 long Mar 26 16:46:06 Sup3rkiddo: any thoughts on splitting odeviced? Mar 26 16:46:55 summatusmentis, i havent looked at neod yet..so am not in a position to comment :/....i could get some python bindings done though.. Mar 26 16:54:26 Sup3rkiddo: iirc, zaurusd is just a perl script that then calls other things Mar 26 16:54:32 but I'm not sure about that Mar 26 16:54:52 * Sup3rkiddo havent looked at angstorm code Mar 26 16:59:02 mickeyl: the modules for odeviced would be implementing things like power management, headphone insertion/removal, rotation, locking the display, etc. right? Mar 26 16:59:07 and each of those would be separate? Mar 26 16:59:23 sometime like plugins would be great Mar 26 16:59:57 Sup3rkiddo: http://www.freesmartphone.org/mediawiki/index.php/Implementations/OpenDeviceDaemon Mar 26 17:00:19 looks like neod, zaurusd, machined, and ODevice are all doing the same thing, but are machine specific Mar 26 17:00:58 maybe those things listed are 'core' plugins to the dbus framework Mar 26 17:04:11 summatusmentis, but each is written in its own separate style..integrating them as backends for odeviced will involve some sleepness nights..what you say? Mar 26 17:07:27 summatusmentis: yes Mar 26 17:07:34 (seperate plugins) Mar 26 17:07:59 the deal would be that the framework scans and advertises the APIs provided by the plugins and then loads the plugins Mar 26 17:08:25 ok, and both the framework and the plugins are useless w/out the other? Mar 26 17:08:27 the plugins itself contain very specific code to implement APIs Mar 26 17:08:29 yep Mar 26 17:08:47 so it's really one large project, and not easily split Mar 26 17:08:49 framework without at least say... an idle time checker, or a power control, is dull Mar 26 17:08:55 yes, very hard to split Mar 26 17:09:00 * * OM Bug 1304 has been created by erin_yueh(AT)openmoko.com Mar 26 17:09:01 * * cannot display status report Mar 26 17:09:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1304 Mar 26 17:09:06 mickeyl, do plugins incur some overhead? Mar 26 17:09:29 no. just some shared objects that are dlopened Mar 26 17:09:35 actually the idea was that you have to build options Mar 26 17:09:37 a) plugins Mar 26 17:09:42 b) static build Mar 26 17:09:56 both makes sense for various devices Mar 26 17:10:10 but that's purely a build system issue Mar 26 17:10:15 ah Mar 26 17:10:18 ok.. Mar 26 17:10:26 you could look at pulseaudio e.g. Mar 26 17:10:31 it has a nice plugin system Mar 26 17:10:36 *cough* Mar 26 17:10:36 lunching time, I'll be back in a little while Mar 26 17:10:39 unfortunately it's not seperated as a library Mar 26 17:10:49 no wonder odeviced wants pa as base :D Mar 26 17:10:51 should pester Lennart to factor this out Mar 26 17:11:10 yes, that was my idea to see how much framework code we could steal from PA Mar 26 17:12:19 mickeyl, forgive me if i sound stupid, but how about using libgsmd as a backend for things that it does without problems, the non-asynchronous parts like 'dialling out' Mar 26 17:12:43 the problem with libgsmd is the design Mar 26 17:13:02 being asynchronous against AT protocol calls for problems Mar 26 17:13:12 ah ..ok Mar 26 17:13:12 besides, it has no idea about different control channels Mar 26 17:13:16 right Mar 26 17:13:17 which could simplify the protocal a lot Mar 26 17:13:25 making it more maintainable, less complicated, more solid Mar 26 17:13:35 that's why i think libgsmd is not the way to go Mar 26 17:13:40 although .tw thinks otherwise Mar 26 17:15:00 * * OM Bug 1305 has been created by erin_yueh(AT)openmoko.com Mar 26 17:15:02 * * cannot display Contact name from Call history after rebooting Mar 26 17:15:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1305 Mar 26 17:29:00 * * OM Bug 1306 has been created by erin_yueh(AT)openmoko.com Mar 26 17:29:01 * * dial out from Messaging Mar 26 17:29:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1306 Mar 26 17:31:00 * * OM Bug 1307 has been created by erin_yueh(AT)openmoko.com Mar 26 17:31:01 * * Add to Contacts from unknow folder Mar 26 17:31:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1307 Mar 26 17:33:07 hi Mar 26 17:36:01 * * OM Bug 1308 has been created by erin_yueh(AT)openmoko.com Mar 26 17:36:02 * * missing supports for contacts from SIM card Mar 26 17:36:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1308 Mar 26 17:38:45 Sup3rkiddo: I know you really haven't had any time to look at code, etc. but what are your thoughts now? Mar 26 17:42:04 summatusmentis, hmm....i am sort of in a confused state atm...ophoned or odeviced.. Mar 26 17:44:03 isn't ophoned mostly done? Mar 26 17:45:41 bwahahah Mar 26 17:46:27 keypad Mar 26 17:46:54 ScaredyCat: what about a keypad? Mar 26 17:51:08 raster is working on it... Mar 26 17:51:27 I was taunting Mar 26 17:52:04 lol, oh Mar 26 17:52:20 * raster slices ScaredyCat Mar 26 17:53:10 raster, can i do the honours once again? Mar 26 17:53:41 bleh to you Mar 26 17:56:01 I wonder what's the status of the Wifi driver Mar 26 17:57:17 mickeyl: obviously there are device specific aspects to each module. Mar 26 17:57:36 right Mar 26 17:57:46 they vary in specificness Mar 26 17:57:48 e.g. Mar 26 17:57:51 kernel-2.6-backlight Mar 26 17:57:53 is pretty generic Mar 26 17:57:56 however Mar 26 17:57:59 fic-gta01-modem-powercontrol Mar 26 17:58:03 Would there be one generic power management module, and then multiple projects add their code to the single power management module? or would each device create it's own power management module? Mar 26 17:58:03 would be pretty specific Mar 26 17:58:56 this is up to the plugin vendor, but my gut feeling is that power management is device specific unless standardizes by kernel interfaces (think led/backlight/display class devices) Mar 26 17:59:39 ok, so a zaurus would use a different power management module than a freerunner might Mar 26 18:00:24 Sup3rkiddo: :) Mar 26 18:01:25 summatusmentis: probably Mar 26 18:01:37 of course, there is a tendency towards kernel interfaces standardization Mar 26 18:01:39 which we welcome Mar 26 18:01:52 so we should have generic modules for most of the 2.6 interfaces Mar 26 18:02:13 however there are nasty things Mar 26 18:02:17 like on the ezx series Mar 26 18:02:28 you need to talk AT commands to the baseband processor to turn on the power of the bluetooth module Mar 26 18:02:31 how sick is that :D Mar 26 18:02:39 lol, kinda gross, yes Mar 26 18:02:41 puky sick Mar 26 18:02:42 about that... I want to be on that idea for GSoC :) Mar 26 18:03:08 dinner time now Mar 26 18:03:09 are there any other people who showed interest in that GSoC idea? Mar 26 18:03:10 bbl Mar 26 18:03:14 the EZX one Mar 26 18:04:14 mickey|dinner: last time you did this, you never came back :D Mar 26 18:04:38 no wonder he is sorta rotund Mar 26 18:04:41 neverending dinner Mar 26 18:04:42 :) Mar 26 18:07:17 openmoko: 03werner * r4257 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-gta02.patch: Mar 26 18:07:17 openmoko: From: matt_hsu Mar 26 18:07:17 openmoko: Subject: [PATCH] uboot-pcf50633_usbchg.patch Mar 26 18:07:17 openmoko: This patch enables 1A charging current. In the kernel/uboot, the drawing Mar 26 18:07:17 openmoko: of USB current should be determined the configuration of USB device Mar 26 18:07:19 openmoko: status setting. Mar 26 18:07:44 ! Mar 26 18:11:22 via special charger? Mar 26 18:11:35 night all Mar 26 18:12:24 Sup3rkiddo: what timezone are you in? Mar 26 18:12:36 summatusmentis, IST Mar 26 18:12:52 in relation to UTC? Mar 26 18:13:05 Indian Standard Time Mar 26 18:13:11 +0530 GMT Mar 26 18:13:26 good lord, so it's what, 2:30 am there? Mar 26 18:14:05 hehe, na...11:45 PM..got go to college tommorow.. Mar 26 18:14:22 mom wont let me stay up that long :S Mar 26 18:14:30 oh, I can't do math, sleep well Mar 26 18:14:42 summatusmentis, yup..night..have a g'day Mar 26 18:17:17 I started a brand new build with MokoMakeFile today because my old one wasn't working anymore. But I just got an error with package avahio that doesn't want to install. The log is in http://pastebin.ca/958390. Any ideas? Mar 26 18:18:18 The package that fails to install is avahi, not avahio, sorry Mar 26 18:22:03 are there any third party FIC Neo skins already? now that the design has been published... Mar 26 18:23:09 no Mar 26 18:23:18 making a skin is _really_ expensive. Mar 26 18:23:38 you're looking at an investment of $10K++ to make the moulds for a run of injection moulding. Mar 26 18:23:46 oh geez Mar 26 18:23:59 not if you have a 3d printer, SpeedEvil Mar 26 18:24:18 I'm not talking production runs, I mean if anybody has tried building anything remotely close to a fully customized case Mar 26 18:24:28 http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2955814405.html ? Mar 26 18:25:43 oeh, nice Mar 26 18:25:53 i'm trying to charge my neo, but it seems not to work Mar 26 18:26:03 i mean it is using "pre" charge mode Mar 26 18:26:12 but after a while (5 mins) it turns off Mar 26 18:26:27 Vegar: 3D printers unfortunately have problems. The product is generally sucky mechanically. Mar 26 18:26:54 SpeedEvil: it's good for prototyping Mar 26 18:26:54 LuitvD: it's simply not adequate - in many cases - for a phone that you don't want to shatter immediately if you drop it. Mar 26 18:26:58 plus "cat chgcur" returns strange values (like 12293 and after one second 0, after another second 133) Mar 26 18:27:03 For prototyping, yes. Mar 26 18:27:14 point taken Mar 26 18:27:47 However, for a case that you want to actually use, you need it to be mechanically strong and rigid - otherwise it shatters, or the circuitry inside gets bent too much on impact and stops working. Mar 26 18:27:57 http://koolu.com/Koolu-WE-Appliance/WE-Phone.html says that a future feature is 700Mhz Mar 26 18:32:44 hello anf Mar 26 18:33:18 hi Mar 26 18:34:41 hi all Mar 26 18:39:09 hi, anyone has sent any proposals for GSoC yet Mar 26 18:39:37 no, I'm submitting drafts versions to the likely mentor for my project Mar 26 18:40:27 what is you idea? Mar 26 18:41:05 odeviced, a dbus api that will allow a cross-device device daemon Mar 26 18:41:25 * cb22 pokes raster with an is-it-done-yet-stick :p Mar 26 18:41:45 summatusmentis: ooh, shiny :) Mar 26 18:41:57 summatusmentis: cross-device in which form? this would require different backends, wouldnt it? Mar 26 18:42:15 (thinking of things like Phonon) Mar 26 18:42:27 Tanu: the idea is that it'll be modular, so each device can have specific modules, that are all addresses w/ the dbus fraemwork Mar 26 18:42:30 frame* Mar 26 18:43:04 specific modules for freerunner powermanagement, for instance, which is different from the powermanagement for a zaurus Mar 26 18:43:26 neat Mar 26 18:43:35 What is the status of the Wifi driver ? Mar 26 18:43:37 sounds tasty... :) Mar 26 18:44:04 how many slots does om have for soc this year? Mar 26 18:44:34 cb22: noone knows yet Mar 26 18:44:37 CVirus: AFAIK quite far Mar 26 18:44:58 far from being perfect ? Mar 26 18:45:00 (thats just my opinion from looking at things like bugzilla and ther kernel mailing list) Mar 26 18:45:19 hmm Mar 26 18:45:22 well, association with no wpa works perfect Mar 26 18:45:26 FYI, I shouldn't really take credit for the idea, it was something I was discussing w/ Angstrom, and mickeyl has been helping guide me in the right direction Mar 26 18:45:38 there are still a few little problems with WPA, but it works generally Mar 26 18:45:50 sumatsumentis: i was thinking of a text to speech engine for moko. Mar 26 18:45:50 what about WEP ? Mar 26 18:45:57 Mar 26 18:46:03 i think that works fine too Mar 26 18:46:07 great Mar 26 18:49:03 hmm, are there any lon/lat -> timezoze converters out there? Mar 26 18:49:09 I'm just wondering how people can reverse engineer a device and write an open source driver for it .... like the bcm43xx wireless chipset Mar 26 18:49:28 CVirus: with huge amounts of skill and time Mar 26 18:49:43 srj: text to speech engine? that could be cool Mar 26 18:49:54 not speech to text, and not speech commands, right? Mar 26 18:49:56 you should see the prism54 project. they even have a mini custom 'firmware' if you will Mar 26 18:49:59 cb22: how would they do it if they don't even have the schematics of the chipset ? Mar 26 18:50:16 because those ones are supposed to be a lot harder Mar 26 18:50:26 i'd imagine they would start by analyzing some raw data Mar 26 18:50:55 CVirus: that and reversing existing binary drivers/firmware Mar 26 18:51:08 CVirus: you start with bus-sniffs of the driver interacting with the chip Mar 26 18:51:19 you can load your own firmware onto those p54u chips :) Mar 26 18:51:20 Or dissasembly Mar 26 18:51:23 the bcm guys even figured out the chipset's instruction set without knowing the architecture from the raw binary data Mar 26 18:51:30 and make the LEDs blink Mar 26 18:51:37 wow Mar 26 18:51:44 pH5: but you're starting in that case from knowledge of what it might be. Mar 26 18:51:47 summatismentis:yeah but i really thought my neo needed a t2s engine Mar 26 18:51:52 pH5: for example - 8051/... Mar 26 18:52:06 pH5: it's unlikely to be a completely novel architecture. Mar 26 18:52:36 speech recognition is hard from scratch , but porting popular s/w won't be that much of a problem Mar 26 18:53:00 popular open-source. Mar 26 18:53:19 speech recognition ranges from easy to man-centuries of work. Mar 26 18:53:50 Easy is stuff like regognising 10-20 speaker dependant words. Mar 26 18:53:58 'phone dial 0138484444' Mar 26 18:54:15 hard is speaker independant continuous speech. Mar 26 18:55:00 * cb22 thinks t2s on phonecalls would rock Mar 26 18:55:03 when you cant speak Mar 26 18:55:17 and you cant sms, you could send a 'speech sms' Mar 26 18:55:19 yeah Mar 26 18:55:32 as a phone moko will need those basic functionality like dial etc Mar 26 18:55:51 srj: phone? huh? whats that Mar 26 18:56:06 :) Mar 26 18:56:34 damn, there's no way to charge this fucking battery Mar 26 18:57:08 shame, its not the battery's fault Mar 26 18:57:34 bedboi:? Mar 26 18:57:49 SpeedEvil: there's no way to make it charge Mar 26 18:58:01 the software can be "trained" using standard techniques Mar 26 18:58:02 i put it on charge, the neo boots Mar 26 18:58:03 what battery? Mar 26 18:58:25 then it charges (pre mode) for some minutes and then it turns itself off Mar 26 18:58:49 i've tried with both the FIC battery and a nokia one Mar 26 19:00:28 mickey|dinner: ping me when you get back please(assuming you ever come back from dinner :D) Mar 26 19:01:06 bedboi: has it booted fully? You're plugging it into a powered hub, or directly into a port? Mar 26 19:01:16 yep fully Mar 26 19:01:20 usb port Mar 26 19:01:43 SpeedEvil: maybe i should buy a usb charger Mar 26 19:06:06 bedboi: http://blog.automated.it/2008/03/08/how-long-does-yours-stay-up/ Mar 26 19:06:14 gah! Mar 26 19:06:15 gone Mar 26 19:10:30 hey mickey|dinner! Mar 26 19:10:57 he went to dinner, he's never coming back Mar 26 19:12:34 never ending dinner.... Mar 26 19:12:47 the sequal to the never ending story... Mar 26 19:13:25 if he's not coming back, can I have his 02 Mar 26 19:13:48 nuh uh, I saw him leave, I get it Mar 26 19:30:23 XorA|gone: ping Mar 26 19:34:00 does anyone know if the move from fic-gta0* to om-gta0* has been commited ? Mar 26 19:34:26 On the OE side, yes. I won't be on the OM branch until XorA|gone gets ungone. Mar 26 19:34:35 s/I/It/ Mar 26 19:34:36 mwester meant: On the OE side, yes. It won't be on the OM branch until XorA|gone gets ungone. Mar 26 19:35:32 I presume the MACHINE in configs changes too? Mar 26 19:36:06 I think that Koen just commited a fix for that on OE. Mar 26 19:38:45 good good Mar 26 19:40:21 hyhy I can't write "7" on my keyboard :) Mar 26 19:43:15 you just did Mar 26 19:43:32 can you see what im typing? Mar 26 19:43:36 yeah Mar 26 19:43:50 mwester: I'm guessing that it's a full rebuild too :( Mar 26 19:44:20 no cb22 I can't see what you're typing Mar 26 19:44:28 Er, I don't know but it wouldn't surprise me if it were. Mar 26 19:45:12 and of course it'll break everything again... gps all the apps that use /sys/.../blah Mar 26 19:45:19 etc Mar 26 19:46:14 ScaredyCat: damn. how do i get it so you can? Mar 26 19:46:16 * ScaredyCat blames XorA|gone for bringing it all up in the first place Mar 26 19:46:37 cb22: turn off your ascii colour Mar 26 19:46:58 it's usually the ALT-F4 key combo Mar 26 19:47:42 yes, of course. i shall try that now Mar 26 19:48:41 under linux it'll be CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE Mar 26 19:49:21 oh noes you are all up in my x killing my windows :( Mar 26 19:49:31 hrr hrr Mar 26 19:54:00 tum te tum Mar 26 19:54:53 are there other mentors around? Mar 26 19:54:54 * cb22 gives ScaredyCat some catfood Mar 26 19:56:26 yum Mar 26 19:57:58 summatusmentis: the path to enlightenment is a two-dimensional array of black and white cells... Mar 26 19:58:13 i thought it was through raster Mar 26 19:59:22 two dimensional array of black and white cells... I don't know what that means... Mar 26 19:59:36 !google define: raster Mar 26 19:59:38 A two-dimensional array of black and white cells, called pixels or picture elements, which when displayed on a screen or paper, form an image or ... @ http://www.photographyreview.com/digitalglossarycrx.aspx ( http://www.google.com/search?hl=all&q=define:+raster ) Mar 26 19:59:39 yo momma Mar 26 19:59:47 bwahaha Mar 26 19:59:53 for(i=;i<6;i++) Mar 26 19:59:58 shit, never mind Mar 26 20:00:17 for i in range (0,5): Mar 26 20:00:22 much better Mar 26 20:00:26 I was gonna write code to create a two dimensional array that took data from black[] and white[] but whatever Mar 26 20:00:36 .. Mar 26 20:00:40 * anrp detects a game of life Mar 26 20:02:03 is there a dedicated gsoc-channel for openmoko Mar 26 20:02:37 not really, here we are Mar 26 20:02:57 also, back off, openmoko is mine! :-) Mar 26 20:03:31 wait, raster: are you a mentor? Mar 26 20:03:50 god damn Mar 26 20:03:54 hehe Mar 26 20:03:57 i'm becoming a mentor everywhere Mar 26 20:04:05 i wonder who put it in my schedule Mar 26 20:04:10 summatusmentis, hehe. hi :) Mar 26 20:04:11 and if they asked my schedule fairies Mar 26 20:04:12 you don't need to be, I thought that's what ScaredyCat was saying Mar 26 20:04:17 summatusmentis, what projects are you interested in? Mar 26 20:04:20 as frankly it was already overflowing Mar 26 20:04:33 not ones listed on the ideas list, and I'm not telling because then you'll steal them :-D Mar 26 20:04:58 summatusmentis, free software and open design - bringing openess to the world ;) Mar 26 20:05:03 raster: pffft, you are just supposed to be a humble programmer Mar 26 20:05:05 no, I'm applying for odeviced, a modular dbus interface to the hardware of devices Mar 26 20:05:18 ok Mar 26 20:05:20 cb22: i know! Mar 26 20:05:40 cb22: thats why they should ask my schedule faries. Mar 26 20:06:11 raster: well, where do I contact your schedule fairies? Mar 26 20:06:29 good question Mar 26 20:06:34 i wish i knew Mar 26 20:06:39 they flew off with my schedule Mar 26 20:06:54 * mwester doesn't like schedule fairies, but his management has refused his request for schedule nymphs. :( Mar 26 20:08:04 raster's schedule: 1) make openmoko look pimp :p Mar 26 20:12:37 why is the openmoko so big? Mar 26 20:12:53 there seem to be alot of air in the hardware Mar 26 20:15:26 ScaredyCat: I was looking at the video you posted on your blog, it looked like there was a 1:40 boot up time? Mar 26 20:18:08 I got bored after about a minute and a half, and never saw the rest of the video. Mar 26 20:18:09 avtobiff: we like a lot of hot air Mar 26 20:18:39 Unless you can get that glamo cranking, there'll be nothing to warm the air in there! Mar 26 20:20:20 ok, so whoever can, should do whatever is in their power to get mickey|dinner back on IRC Mar 26 20:29:15 summatusmentis: I doubt his wife will let that attempt become successful. Mar 26 20:38:25 abraxa_: lol, I know, he's a busy guy, and everyone deserves family time Mar 26 20:43:18 btw. for the gsoc-projects (and general development) is there an openmoke-simulator? Mar 26 20:43:29 openmoko* Mar 26 20:43:55 avtobiff: you might want to read: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Installation_guide Mar 26 20:44:19 Kensan, thanks! Mar 26 20:45:01 ScaredyCat, Got a current build running? Less than 24 hours old? Mar 26 20:45:59 yes Mar 26 20:46:24 summatusmentis: just over 1:50 iirc Mar 26 20:46:35 Can you add capital letters to the name of a new contact? Mar 26 20:46:54 don't think so Mar 26 20:46:56 I can do lower case and numbers, but no capitals. Mar 26 20:47:31 yes, same here Mar 26 20:47:44 but i had contacts on my SIM with capitals.. Mar 26 20:47:52 I also have a BT keyboard Mar 26 20:48:22 the multitap deosn;t have caps iirc Mar 26 20:48:31 it's a load of wank Mar 26 20:48:50 raster is working on a new kb apparently... Mar 26 20:51:05 It did yesterday. :) Mar 26 20:51:26 Anyone ever wonder about the fact that the Openmoko community liasons seldom every show up here on IRC -- it makes one wonder exactly what community they are liasing with, and how they are liasing... Mar 26 20:52:08 (I haven't had a good argument with roh in ages! :p ) Mar 26 20:53:12 D: Mar 26 20:59:21 mwester, yeah, it would be the one job where chatting all day on irc would be considered acceptable :) Mar 26 21:00:14 mwester: reading /. and engadget takes time too ;) Mar 26 21:02:41 Instead, poor mickey|dinner has to resort to long dinners to escape the throngs of people chasing him about one OM thing or another... :D Mar 26 21:10:46 you have no idea ;) Mar 26 21:28:03 kdeadfkkfldm elm ervmerr Mar 26 21:50:34 I wanted to discuss an idea for gsoc, can i discuss it here Mar 26 21:52:23 raster: hola. Just thought I'd peek in here... as it gets mentioned in SoC land a lot. Mar 26 21:52:43 lots of folks. Mar 26 21:53:15 ravenlock: Where is SoC land? Mar 26 21:53:35 --> #gsoc Mar 26 21:53:39 I have an idea related to the "Centralised event handling infrastructure" Mar 26 21:53:45 ah, makes sense ;-) Mar 26 21:54:14 is there any mentor here whom i can discuss my idea with? Mar 26 21:54:20 It seems a bit of a conflict of interest - Google Summer of Code projects extolling the virtues of a competing open phone system Mar 26 21:54:21 * anrp spots the appearance of a "de-" prefix! Mar 26 21:54:44 rahul_delight: stefan and mickeyl are the only mentors I know of Mar 26 21:55:05 wurp2: hehe.... they are not extolling the virtues of your system, but those of FOSS projects. Mar 26 21:55:16 of which you happen to be one. Mar 26 21:55:33 Well, it's only my system in that I own the device and have built a few toy apps for it ;-) Mar 26 21:55:51 :) Mar 26 21:56:38 toy :o Mar 26 21:56:56 one man's toy is another man's ".." Mar 26 21:57:25 joy? ;) Mar 26 21:59:47 sex toy Mar 26 22:01:04 Don't say that, ScaredyCat. It makes me remember ugly pictures I saw. Mar 26 22:02:26 should i directly send my idea as an application, or should i discuss it first here? Mar 26 22:03:23 rahul_delight: You should probably send it in email to openmoko-devel at lists.openmoko.org Mar 26 22:03:56 abraxa_: goatse ? Mar 26 22:03:56 but by all means feel free to discuss it here if you like :-) Mar 26 22:04:23 unfortuneately you can't unsee things abraxa_ Mar 26 22:04:24 ScaredyCat: More like... pictures taken at emergency rooms. You don't wanna know details, trust me. Mar 26 22:04:25 ScaredyCat: the sad state of things it that goatse has been made to seem tame by the follow ups Mar 26 22:05:10 I managed to miss goatse for years, then some random asshole (pun intended) snuck a copy in a link I was foolish enough to follow Mar 26 22:05:20 lol Mar 26 22:06:01 I never understood why people who KNEW about the "cup video" voluntarily decided to watch it. Even out of curiosity. I never did and never will. Mar 26 22:07:23 * ScaredyCat agrees Mar 26 22:07:49 God, no kidding Mar 26 22:08:38 actually, this is more the thing now http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 Mar 26 22:09:03 an inline rickroll D: Mar 26 22:10:35 now what in the world would make you think we would follow that link? Mar 26 22:10:37 after that setup Mar 26 22:10:51 its just a guy from the mid 20th century singing Mar 26 22:11:00 really Mar 26 22:11:00 oh, that Mar 26 22:11:03 heh Mar 26 22:11:05 "really" Mar 26 22:11:09 really! Mar 26 22:11:20 * anrp adds punctuation for emphasis Mar 26 22:11:23 but, nonetheless, I don't WANNA be rickrolled Mar 26 22:11:38 hello ! can use minisip under a openmoko mobile??? http://www.minisip.org Mar 26 22:12:48 'can' is a loaded question Mar 26 22:13:08 * anrp puts a neo on top of a dell Mar 26 22:13:18 It's open software, so if you or someone else ports it, you can Mar 26 22:13:33 of course, on a neo1973 you'll need some way to access the internet, probably something better than gprs Mar 26 22:13:43 lzero: afaik there's a package in openembedded. Mar 26 22:14:01 lzero: http://www.openembedded.org/filebrowser/org.openembedded.dev/packages/minisip Mar 26 22:14:09 You can use bluetooth if theres a pand server nearby, or rig up a wifi dongle (and port the driver ;-) Mar 26 22:14:24 Kensan: Very nice! Mar 26 22:14:27 oho wow THX Mar 26 22:14:35 Of course, you still have the net access issue, no? Mar 26 22:14:59 lzero: My guess would be that noone has tried that on a moko yet so expect some bumps along the way... Mar 26 22:15:12 wurp2: you can test it with usb-networking Mar 26 22:15:26 wurp2: and gta2 will have wlan. Mar 26 22:15:44 Yeah, but who wants to be tethered by usb while talking on your mobile phone? Mar 26 22:16:05 wurp2: well the question was "can" not "is it fun" ;) Mar 26 22:16:11 I use my neo to browse the web at home over bt pand Mar 26 22:16:13 wireless usb? Mar 26 22:16:16 * anrp solves the wrong problem Mar 26 22:16:46 which is almost as likely to be accessible as a machine that has usb networking properly set up for the neo, in my experience Mar 26 22:17:07 wurp2: of course bt should work too. Mar 26 22:17:12 in that the only time either one are available is at my house :-) Mar 26 22:17:36 s/ are / is / Mar 26 22:17:36 wurp2 meant: in that the only time either one is available is at my house :-) Mar 26 22:21:23 bleh, the latency on gprs kills all hopes of voip through it :( Mar 26 22:21:46 nod Mar 26 22:22:16 the only way to do realtime data is really with csd (or wifi/bt) Mar 26 22:22:36 the good ol dialup Mar 26 22:22:44 csd is bleg Mar 26 22:22:59 but it does provide 9.6kbit of low latency bw D: Mar 26 22:23:01 you pay normall call rates, so why bother then Mar 26 22:23:11 yay! speex at 2kbit/s Mar 26 22:23:26 cb22: international calls Mar 26 22:23:30 its actually 9.6kbit (minus data dropouts because the channel is error corrected) Mar 26 22:23:33 cb22: roaming kills puppies Mar 26 22:23:52 and kittens too Mar 26 22:24:10 numerous folks in the us have free nights and weekends or other similar arrangements Mar 26 22:24:10 Voip call over GPRS: Mar 26 22:24:14 me> Hello! Mar 26 22:24:18 <2 seconds later> Mar 26 22:24:24 other person> Hi! Mar 26 22:24:50 anrp: here in south africa, using your phone normally kills puppies Mar 26 22:24:52 stupid Q: what is csd? Mar 26 22:24:58 using gprs, on the otherhand, kills kittens Mar 26 22:24:59 circuit switched data Mar 26 22:25:02 I see that it's networking at 9.6 kbits over gsm Mar 26 22:25:10 wurp2: think of idalup over gsm Mar 26 22:25:13 basically reserve a phone call slot and pass data instead of the gsm voice data Mar 26 22:25:17 there is also hscsd Mar 26 22:25:30 whats the latency on csd like? Mar 26 22:25:34 is it something the carrier has to support, or is it just a modem style format that goes over regular gsm call circuits? Mar 26 22:25:41 whatever the underlying network latency is Mar 26 22:25:44 you bother with csd because you can get proper encryption Mar 26 22:25:44 i.e. same as a phone call Mar 26 22:25:50 nod Mar 26 22:26:07 neo doesn't have hscsd.. Mar 26 22:26:08 sadly Mar 26 22:26:10 14.4kbit! Mar 26 22:26:13 yay, encrypted phone calls :) Mar 26 22:26:19 or more, if you make 4 phone calls at once Mar 26 22:26:48 the carrier has to allow it, it can be denied by the operator Mar 26 22:26:48 cb22: check out OSvS on the wiki Mar 26 22:27:02 but otherwise it's a phone call, with special provisions to talk to the pots network Mar 26 22:27:07 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OSvS Mar 26 22:27:15 anrp: OK, does the phone hw also have to allow it, or can it be implemented through software? Mar 26 22:27:18 yeah, i've seen it Mar 26 22:27:25 er, the network has to allow it Mar 26 22:27:30 its part of the gsm standard Mar 26 22:27:30 i posted a link about bandwidth vs latency: http://documents.made-it.com/VoIP/#AEN273 Mar 26 22:27:57 speex can do voice coding at 2.5kbit/s Mar 26 22:27:59 cool, thx much Mar 26 22:28:02 csd is what happens when you make a data call with a gsm phone (a non *99# call) Mar 26 22:28:20 oic Mar 26 22:29:08 i wrote a simple encrypted sms app in python awhile ago Mar 26 22:29:19 cb22: are there any other people "semi-seriously" interested in this? Mar 26 22:29:44 cb22: any ongoing projects? Mar 26 22:30:07 not atm, i managed to delete half my home directory :( Mar 26 22:30:14 * anrp hears an oops Mar 26 22:30:18 i'm sure there are Mar 26 22:30:21 * cb22 curses tab Mar 26 22:30:29 cbrake_away: power off and recover it Mar 26 22:30:33 cb22: Mar 26 22:30:36 hm Mar 26 22:30:38 tab problems are bad. Mar 26 22:30:40 SpeedEvil: it was a while ago Mar 26 22:30:43 ah Mar 26 22:30:51 SpeedEvil: yeah, you suffer from colon problems :p Mar 26 22:30:58 so, just recover off your latest backup Mar 26 22:31:02 no big deal, right? Mar 26 22:31:02 No, that's flyback. Mar 26 22:31:06 ...,,, Mar 26 22:31:28 anrp: *note to self* dont store backups in home directory in future Mar 26 22:31:36 oh... whoops ~_~ Mar 26 22:31:49 cb22: that does not qualify as a backup Mar 26 22:31:58 it might, if it was mounted Mar 26 22:32:09 cb22: there's some part about "different physical medium" I think ;) Mar 26 22:32:20 wasnt really backuos, was more of 'snapshot-from-previous-date' Mar 26 22:33:11 * cb22 thinks that the phone app, and messages app, and calendar app even should be modular Mar 26 22:33:50 they can use all different back ends, like messages could send an sms via a websms gateway, or via another phone connected via bt, or via email Mar 26 22:34:43 same with phone, it can makes calls over gsm sure, but there could be an encrypted csd backend, or a normal sip backend Mar 26 22:35:30 Mar 26 22:36:00 "normal" Mar 26 22:36:05 i like the way you pit it Mar 26 22:36:10 *put Mar 26 22:36:23 heh Mar 26 22:36:47 SIP over WiFi, how much more normal do you want =) Mar 26 22:38:03 cb22: like the telepathy framework or something? :) Mar 26 22:38:28 Robot101: that sounds like it indeed Mar 26 22:38:54 tell them to reply to my mails or something, eh... :) Mar 26 22:39:02 hehe Mar 26 22:43:39 * cb22 thinks Mar 26 22:43:50 mickeyl: ping Mar 26 22:43:53 whats the max one could get with gprs with a neo? Mar 26 22:44:42 ~8Kb Mar 26 22:44:50 bw? 80kbps theoretically Mar 26 22:45:55 think freerunner would be able to play back h264 video at 320-240 at really low bitrates? Mar 26 22:46:16 80kbps? Mar 26 22:46:20 less Mar 26 22:46:23 umm..the video is kindof crappy with EDGE Mar 26 22:46:37 so I doubt that Mar 26 22:46:41 more like 53Kbps Mar 26 22:47:02 you talking streaming video? Nuh-huh Mar 26 22:47:15 well a video stream at 53 kilobit? Mar 26 22:47:18 i dunno, i think it could Mar 26 22:47:24 but what kind of video compresses that much? Mar 26 22:47:34 gprr =~ 53-ish kbps afaik Mar 26 22:47:48 s/gprr/gprs Mar 26 22:47:51 * cb22 fires up ffmpeg quickly Mar 26 22:48:15 but Mar 26 22:48:42 what about 0.25 * VGA Mar 26 22:48:53 or Mar 26 22:48:54 hm Mar 26 22:49:05 160x120? Mar 26 22:49:06 qqvga Mar 26 22:49:21 at that point i'm not sure why you'd bother Mar 26 22:49:28 thats seriously low resolution.. Mar 26 22:49:29 its a small screen Mar 26 22:49:31 160*120 is actually not bad Mar 26 22:49:33 on 2.8" Mar 26 22:49:48 it's only 85dpi Mar 26 22:50:03 but without filtering it would look nasty scaled Mar 26 22:50:04 which is most of what your desktop screen does. Mar 26 22:50:08 although i suppose the glamo would filter it Mar 26 22:56:58 no community updates :'( Mar 26 22:57:55 It's been a while, hasn't it Mar 26 22:58:06 more then a month :( Mar 26 22:58:14 Although we kind of get them in the community mailing list, from steve Mar 26 23:01:44 hmm hmm hmm Mar 26 23:02:51 750kb for a 2min50 video Mar 26 23:03:03 with xvid Mar 26 23:04:47 cbrake_away: does it play on your moko? Mar 26 23:05:09 i dont have one :( Mar 26 23:05:34 dcc me the file, and I'll see Mar 26 23:05:46 wait a sec, i want to try an x264 version quickly Mar 26 23:32:23 ok, for the interested: http://cb22.za.net/videos/ Mar 26 23:32:50 theres a 320x240 video there, encoded using x264. quality doesnt seem too bad. 1 minute long, 425kb Mar 26 23:32:55 435* Mar 26 23:33:06 that would need 7.2kb/s Mar 26 23:33:16 15fps too Mar 26 23:36:19 mp3 at 8kbit/s sucks Mar 26 23:36:36 indeed Mar 26 23:36:40 Ok - 14s cpu time on a PII/300 Mar 26 23:37:58 btw, there is also a test160.avi up Mar 26 23:38:35 the same thing, but encoded at 160x120. imo it looks better Mar 26 23:39:00 * SpeedEvil hears something faint at the other side of the room. Mar 26 23:40:06 real 1m 26.75s Mar 26 23:40:08 on the neo Mar 26 23:40:39 hmm, too slow :( Mar 26 23:41:28 poor thing, the h264 must be murder Mar 26 23:42:24 trying other Mar 26 23:42:43 summatusmentis: pong Mar 26 23:43:22 cb22: user 0m 38.99s Mar 26 23:43:28 on the neo? Mar 26 23:43:31 yes Mar 26 23:43:35 for the 160 Mar 26 23:43:43 booya :) Mar 26 23:44:10 tryig scaling Mar 26 23:44:25 Of course - this is without actually looking at the video output. Mar 26 23:44:40 As to do that I'd have to get out of bed away from my hot water bottle. Mar 26 23:44:50 hehe Mar 26 23:45:01 it's given the mplayer 'slow' thing Mar 26 23:45:04 so it's not keeping up Mar 26 23:45:11 with scaling? Mar 26 23:45:50 1:39 (with scaling) Mar 26 23:45:56 (to 320:240) Mar 26 23:46:17 hm Mar 26 23:46:33 the glamo "should" do hardware scaling right? Mar 26 23:46:52 yeah Mar 26 23:46:58 and dct in hardware Mar 26 23:47:02 what if you set the screen i qvga-mode? Mar 26 23:47:17 its a qqvga video Mar 26 23:47:33 so only one q to scale Mar 26 23:47:36 vs qq Mar 26 23:47:37 ... Mar 26 23:47:39 lol Mar 26 23:47:41 hehe Mar 26 23:47:43 true Mar 26 23:47:46 I was scaling to 320*240 Mar 26 23:48:00 640*480 requires lots more Mar 26 23:48:44 mickeyl: would you mind looking at a non-gsmd, pro-odeviced version of my application? Mar 26 23:49:39 sure. got a link? Mar 26 23:49:47 * cb22 thinks he shall ponder in his sleep Mar 26 23:49:55 thanks for the testing SpeedEvil! Mar 26 23:50:07 cbrake_away: IIRC mpeg1 diddn't actually come out too badly at 160*120 Mar 26 23:50:14 cb22: I have some test files that I did Mar 26 23:50:39 Though using 'Grand Designs' rather than a rap video. Mar 26 23:50:53 heh =) thats a rip off of a rap video Mar 26 23:51:19 Ah - I couldn't tell. :) Mar 26 23:51:30 yeah, mp3 is terrible Mar 26 23:51:34 (at 8kbit) Mar 26 23:51:49 at 8kbit - even 1 bit 8Khz filtered beats it. Mar 26 23:52:51 is someone working on this part: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Voice_Mailbox Mar 26 23:54:35 might be interesting for SoC for me Mar 26 23:54:52 if this task is complex enough Mar 26 23:59:19 I'd say it's plenty complex enough to do right. Mar 26 23:59:33 but I'm not one that's deciding this sort of things. Mar 27 00:21:08 ok, i've tweaked things abit, and http://cb22.za.net/videos/riding.avi is 1699kb. its 4:04, so it needs 6.8kb/sec to be streamed Mar 27 00:24:12 * SpeedEvil retries. Mar 27 00:24:21 is the calypso 4+1 or 3+2? Mar 27 00:24:25 * SpeedEvil is also trying to get gsm codec working with mplayer. Mar 27 00:24:39 SpeedEvil: higher mp3 quality too, 16kb Mar 27 00:24:57 I vaguely remember streaming topping out at 5.6K Mar 27 00:25:52 2 channel vorbis @ 8kbit was better then 1 channel mp3 @ 8kbit Mar 27 00:26:18 but the ffmpeg / libavcodec encoder doesnt let you do mono Mar 27 00:27:06 it's multislot class 12, can use 4 slots either way, 5 total, don't know if uplink slots are limited due to handsetness Mar 27 00:27:51 * SpeedEvil tries again. Mar 27 00:28:04 sound sounds much better Mar 27 00:29:26 mickeyl: sorry, yeah. http://cda.morris.umn.edu, it's linked to there Mar 27 00:32:25 summatusmentis: fair enough. feel free to submit this Mar 27 00:32:38 additionally someone should submit a project for the device part of it (non-telephony) Mar 27 00:33:25 cb2@: real 4m 7.57s Mar 27 00:33:25 user 2m 9.99s Mar 27 00:33:30 mickeyl: unless I didn't link it correctly, that should be the device part Mar 27 00:33:37 oh Mar 27 00:33:44 http://cda.morris.umn.edu/~theba004/Summer-of-Code-2008-Application_OpenMoko.pdf ? Mar 27 00:33:53 contained lots of references to gsmd2 for me Mar 27 00:33:53 SpeedEvil: bumping up the mp3 bitrate from 8 to 16 killed it so much? Mar 27 00:34:33 mickeyl: yes, then I didn't upload the most recent version, let me fix that, sorry to waste your time Mar 27 00:34:43 mjr: class 12? thats rather rare isnt it? Mar 27 00:34:46 cb22, how did you got oggenc to 8kbit? i only got 45 as lowest Mar 27 00:35:35 morricone: mencoder -oac lavc -lavcopts acodec=vorbis:abitrate=8 Mar 27 00:36:08 or - ffmpeg -acodec libvorbis -ab 8 Mar 27 00:36:25 cb22: no - that's the uncut video it seems Mar 27 00:36:45 oh yes, duh. Mar 27 00:36:45 cbrake_away: note the user time 1/2 of the real Mar 27 00:36:49 << slow mode Mar 27 00:37:04 mickeyl: my apologies, filenames are confusing :) most recent version linked should be for odeviced Mar 27 00:37:32 * SpeedEvil sighs. Mar 27 00:37:43 * SpeedEvil has lost his 4G microSD. Mar 27 00:37:50 :( Mar 27 00:38:02 I put it down ready to put into my neo... Mar 27 00:39:14 Now that's an interesting comparison factor that's largely ignored... when travelling, especially when in motion (bus, train, plane), the micro is very hard to handle, easy to drop, and difficult to locate once dropped... Mar 27 00:39:33 SpeedEvil: But you're not on a bus, train, or plane? Mar 27 00:39:37 No. Mar 27 00:39:45 I'm simply very, very untidy. Mar 27 00:39:57 I have currently lost my VCR. Mar 27 00:40:03 :-O Mar 27 00:40:07 but you know generally where it is right? Mar 27 00:40:19 No. (not the VCR) Mar 27 00:40:39 I was tidying up majorly - as builders were coming. Mar 27 00:40:45 And I'm unsure where I put it. Mar 27 00:40:55 well that's werid Mar 27 00:40:58 weird* Mar 27 00:41:08 I cannont, for the life of me, get things working tonight! Mar 27 00:41:24 I can't type, I can't figure out filenames, I'm just a mess Mar 27 00:46:28 summatusmentis: now that looks better! Mar 27 00:46:38 i'd say give it a go and lets see what the mentors comment Mar 27 00:47:20 I want to make sure it's a good enough application. You think content-wise it's good enough? Mar 27 00:52:01 yay! my p990 in gprs only mode can download the 1 minute video in less then a minute Mar 27 00:52:19 mickeyl: I'm heading out, be back in an hour Mar 27 00:52:44 summatusmentis: i think it's good enough. we can refine this later, just get it in. Mar 27 00:52:49 * mickeyl going to sleep a bit Mar 27 00:52:51 g'night Mar 27 01:21:25 Hey I'm trying to setup the Qemu emulation environment on Ubunty 7.10. After I run 'make qemu' I get an "Kernel is... not found make: *** [download-images] Error 255" message. Mar 27 01:21:36 see: http://pastebin.com/m1902c793 Mar 27 01:25:26 josch: umm, the debian-on-neo looks awesome Mar 27 01:25:30 does it run well? Mar 27 01:26:24 also, ScaredyCat: love the theme on your phone **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Mar 27 02:59:57 2008