**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Apr 03 02:59:57 2008
Apr 03 04:20:49 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4302 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-bt/src/openmoko-panel-bt.c: openmoko-panel-bt: update BT power_on and reset path name (Erin Yueh)
Apr 03 04:30:09 <playya> ewon, a n810 has no gsm stack. it is a internet tablet
Apr 03 04:30:26 <ewon> well, yes
Apr 03 04:46:14 <orospakr> http://pastie.caboo.se/174442
Apr 03 04:46:46 <orospakr> alas, python seems to not work after installing with opkg.
Apr 03 05:21:40 <kvk> #join debian
Apr 03 05:52:30 <cb22> SpeedEvil: if it is a HID ups, shouldn't it show up in /dev/input/eventX ?
Apr 03 05:58:47 <CIA-16> freesmartphone.org: 03pikkive * r131 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/ (10 files in 2 dirs): 
Apr 03 05:58:47 <CIA-16> freesmartphone.org: Began adding network tests.
Apr 03 05:58:47 <CIA-16> freesmartphone.org: Modified sms_interface to hide ipc from the rest of the program and vice versa.
Apr 03 07:04:54 <CIA-16> freesmartphone.org: 03pikkive * r132 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/src/ (9 files): Hid call & phonebook related dbus code behind interface like sms.
Apr 03 07:12:48 <Hopscotch> good morning
Apr 03 07:12:58 <gopi> g'morning.
Apr 03 07:15:59 <josch> y0y0y0
Apr 03 07:30:09 <SpeedEvil> Morning. Has anyone had a working compile in the last few days?
Apr 03 07:30:28 <SpeedEvil> My builds - even ones from scratch - have come out broken.
Apr 03 07:43:34 <ScaredyCat> SpeedEvil: tried mine?
Apr 03 07:44:05 * ScaredyCat wonders if the raft of commits yesterday were just cosmetic
Apr 03 07:46:22 <SpeedEvil> ScaredyCat: no.
Apr 03 07:54:14 <CIA-16> freesmartphone.org: 03pikkive * r133 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/src/ (11 files): Hid pdp and network behind interface aswell.
Apr 03 08:04:08 <mbuf> what could be the reason that i get "undefined reference to lgsm_passthrough, lgsm_init, lgsm_pin" when compiling against March 28th build?
Apr 03 08:21:00 <mbuf> in earlier builds, there was a build/tmp/staging/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/libgsmd.a library; but, that is not there in March 28th 2008 build; hence i am getting "undefined reference to lgsm_passthrough(), lgsm_init(), lgsm_pin()" functions; where did this libgsmd.a go in the new build? (tries find)
Apr 03 08:44:21 <CIA-16> freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r134 10/trunk/software/py-odeviced/ (TODO config.py controller.py modules/kernel26.py odeviced): py-odeviced: plugin for kernel26 class devices working
Apr 03 09:55:22 <zedstar_> hi tonyg hows the erlang stuff going?
Apr 03 09:55:40 <tonyg> hi zedstar_ i haven't had any time to work on it!
Apr 03 09:55:49 <tonyg> my phone has been languishing, unloved and unused
Apr 03 09:56:07 <tonyg> i'm back to my shitty sony ericsson because the battery live of the gta04 wasn't good enough
Apr 03 09:56:13 <tonyg> *life
Apr 03 09:56:24 <zedstar_> tonyg: ah yeh.......bit late to mention now but tomorrow at imperial college is 48hr mobile hacking event
Apr 03 10:06:20 <gambler> zedstar: 4 openmoko?
Apr 03 10:07:08 <mbuf> wiki.openmoko.org is temporarily offline? or my connection is screwed?
Apr 03 10:07:10 <zedstar_> gambler: not specifically for all kinds of mobile
Apr 03 10:07:38 <thos> mbuf, temporarily screwed
Apr 03 10:21:40 * cb22 wants a freerunner
Apr 03 10:25:50 <thos> I want to test the accellerometers on mine
Apr 03 10:26:23 <ScaredyCat> thos: throw yours to me.. then we can test :)
Apr 03 10:28:54 <CIA-18> openmoko: 03thomas * r4303 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/test-notes.c): 
Apr 03 10:28:54 <CIA-18> openmoko: 2008-04-03 Thomas Wood <thomas@openedhand.com>
Apr 03 10:28:54 <CIA-18> openmoko:  * src/test-notes.c: (main): Add optional message and author command line
Apr 03 10:28:54 <CIA-18> openmoko:  parameters
Apr 03 10:30:05 <CIA-18> openmoko: 03thomas * r4304 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (4 files in 2 dirs): 
Apr 03 10:30:05 <CIA-18> openmoko: 2008-04-03 Thomas Wood <thomas@openedhand.com>
Apr 03 10:30:05 <CIA-18> openmoko:  * src/moko-save-number.c: (create_new_contact_from_number),
Apr 03 10:30:05 <CIA-18> openmoko:  (btn_save_info_weak_notify), (moko_save_number):
Apr 03 10:30:05 <CIA-18> openmoko:  * src/moko-save-number.h:
Apr 03 10:30:09 <CIA-18> openmoko:  * src/sms-notes.c:
Apr 03 10:30:11 <CIA-18> openmoko:  Fix some compiler warnings and possible double free
Apr 03 10:31:51 <thos> RAWR
Apr 03 10:31:53 <thos> svn is back
Apr 03 10:31:54 <thos> woot
Apr 03 10:32:24 <thos> so yeah, I should commit my new theme stuff
Apr 03 11:58:55 * Kronk wishes everyone a good evening / morning / afternoon ;)
Apr 03 12:01:34 <rwhitby> Kronk: g'day from the foothills
Apr 03 12:01:54 <Kronk> hey hey
Apr 03 12:01:57 <Kronk> r u in Perth Aust ?
Apr 03 12:02:22 <rwhitby> you're hostname says adl6.internode - aren't you in Adelaide?
Apr 03 12:02:31 <Kronk> sorta ;)
Apr 03 12:02:33 <Kronk> Darwin
Apr 03 12:02:42 <Kronk> Suburb of Adelaide :p
Apr 03 12:02:43 <rwhitby> ah, North Adelaide.
Apr 03 12:02:48 <Kronk> ;)
Apr 03 12:02:50 <Kronk> Indeed !
Apr 03 12:03:13 <cb22> Kronk: when you join a channel, it's morning. when you leave, its evening ;)
Apr 03 12:03:21 <Kronk> right !
Apr 03 12:03:32 <rwhitby> or if you're an aussie, it's g'day at any time.
Apr 03 12:03:34 <Kronk> I usually find it the other way around
Apr 03 12:03:38 <Kronk> ;)
Apr 03 12:04:01 <rtm> About how many neos are there in The Lucky Country?
Apr 03 12:04:14 <rwhitby> I know of at least 4 or 5
Apr 03 12:04:29 <cb22> ... more then in south africa ...
Apr 03 12:04:30 <rwhitby> 2 other don't work any more though.
Apr 03 12:05:14 <rwhitby> there's 2 non-working in Adelaide, 1 working in Perth, at least 1 in Sydney, and Trolltech have a number in Brisbane.
Apr 03 12:05:31 <rtm> What happened to the nonworking ones?
Apr 03 12:05:47 <Kronk> 1 in Darwin ;)
Apr 03 12:05:51 <Kronk> 1973 that is
Apr 03 12:06:00 <rwhitby> unknown yet.  they no longer charge batteries (and yes I know all about deep discharge and how to fix it)
Apr 03 12:06:17 <rwhitby> they also no longer work of charged batteries from a nokia phone
Apr 03 12:06:30 <rwhitby> Kronk: got a debug board?
Apr 03 12:06:43 <Kronk> nah just the phone
Apr 03 12:06:57 <Kronk> Was gonna hack up a cable if and when needed !
Apr 03 12:06:57 <DPThought> would be fun to have a map to show where openkoko users and devs are from :)
Apr 03 12:06:57 <Kronk> ;)
Apr 03 12:07:00 <gi-el> i think it's time to flash a new image and see what the current status is
Apr 03 12:07:09 <Kronk> Trying to do that myself !
Apr 03 12:07:15 <rwhitby> if you ever need access to a debug board, I have one here.  I've already done a courier turn-around for a guy from sydney who bricked his ...
Apr 03 12:07:17 <Kronk> Flashing gumby unfortunatly ;(
Apr 03 12:07:19 <gi-el> haven't had time for ages
Apr 03 12:07:24 <Kronk> lol
Apr 03 12:07:28 <rtm> Will the neo1973's debug board work with the freerunner?
Apr 03 12:07:32 <slytherin> is there any simulator which runs as fast as the real phone? I mean qemu is too slow. :-(
Apr 03 12:07:34 <Kronk> np's thanx for the offer I'll keep it in mind :)
Apr 03 12:07:38 <gi-el> and don't really have any time now, but curiosity is getting the best of me
Apr 03 12:08:09 <zedstar_> germany and uk have quite a few Neos i think.....maybe USA tops the list?
Apr 03 12:08:32 <DPThought> my feeling too
Apr 03 12:08:40 <DPThought> but i like suprises :)
Apr 03 12:09:08 <abraxa_> slytherin: Nope, qemu is the best we have
Apr 03 12:09:14 <zedstar_> ive met a handful of Neo users in london
Apr 03 12:09:26 <Kronk> qemu doesn't run too bad on a dual core
Apr 03 12:09:31 <Kronk> little slow but usable
Apr 03 12:09:51 <Kronk> Has that London demo of the Freerunner been on yet ?
Apr 03 12:09:52 <thos> rtm, yes
Apr 03 12:09:59 <thos> Kronk, no!
Apr 03 12:10:04 <thos> Kronk, it's not a demo of the Freerunner
Apr 03 12:10:05 <rtm> thos: Thanks!
Apr 03 12:10:18 <Kronk> well soz the venue where it will be on show ;)
Apr 03 12:10:20 <slytherin> Kronk: I don't have a dual core. And I am sure you are not implying that I should buy one to simulate a phone that I am not buying in near future. :-)
Apr 03 12:10:21 <thos> Kronk, I just thought I might go along to someone else's talk and take my proto
Apr 03 12:10:31 <Kronk> cool plan thos :)
Apr 03 12:10:42 <Kronk> Video's for all us on the "edge" of the universe ;)
Apr 03 12:10:48 <gi-el> what's the latest recommended u-boot?
Apr 03 12:11:04 <slytherin> abraxa_: is there any chance that bochs can be made to work as openmoko simulator?
Apr 03 12:11:09 <cb22> s/edge/edje/ :)
Apr 03 12:11:18 <abraxa_> slytherin: I thought bochs only emulates x86
Apr 03 12:11:24 <rwhitby> slytherin: it's all 1's and 0's, so yes.
Apr 03 12:11:26 <thos> Kronk, not likely!
Apr 03 12:11:30 <zedstar_> im planning on taking my Neo to this 48hr mobile event tomorrow in london but i fear no other Neo's will be there for mine to play with
Apr 03 12:11:33 <thos> Kronk, it looks exactly the same as gta01
Apr 03 12:11:44 <Kronk> I know it looks the same ;)
Apr 03 12:11:54 <thos> so a video won't be that interesting ;-)
Apr 03 12:11:55 <Kronk> Just wouldn't hurt to hear and see wot's said on it :)
Apr 03 12:12:03 <slytherin> abraxa_: ahh, forgot that part
Apr 03 12:12:05 <thos> i'm not saying anything about it!
Apr 03 12:12:05 <Kronk> or about it anyway !
Apr 03 12:12:06 <cb22> its black
Apr 03 12:12:09 <Kronk> lol
Apr 03 12:12:23 <Kronk> "Goes fast" in black right ?
Apr 03 12:12:57 <zedstar_> has some LED's that light up tho?
Apr 03 12:13:05 <Kronk> sweet !
Apr 03 12:13:12 * Kronk fires up the Neo "bling" ;)
Apr 03 12:13:15 <DPThought> qemu has a mode where it does not simulate hardware but only the processor and the kernel interface. This runs really fast, but you can't run special kernels. The more basic stuff should run in this mode.
Apr 03 12:13:22 <thos> yeah, LEDs behind the buttons
Apr 03 12:13:23 <DPThought> never tried it though
Apr 03 12:13:47 <zedstar_> ah that is more than enough excitement then :)
Apr 03 12:14:39 <thos> zedstar_, yeah but there's no driver for them yet
Apr 03 12:14:42 <thos> afaik
Apr 03 12:14:45 <thos> I will check
Apr 03 12:15:50 <zedstar_> ah
Apr 03 12:16:47 <zedstar_> is kinda kewl to know u got email when the screen is off from an LED at least
Apr 03 12:18:01 <Zmx> email/sms/call
Apr 03 12:21:05 * SpeedEvil wishes LEDs behind the display were a possible.
Apr 03 12:21:08 <cb22> thos: can/ do the leds stay on in suspend?
Apr 03 12:21:22 <SpeedEvil> cbrake_away: yes - assuming it's a similar design of PMU
Apr 03 12:21:48 <SpeedEvil> cb22: the PMU can be condfigured to have the LED on - or blinking in a specified pattern.
Apr 03 12:22:10 <cb22> yay :)
Apr 03 12:26:00 <thos> zedstar_, I'm still hoping I can actually see the LEDs through these new buttons
Apr 03 12:26:20 <thos> zedstar_, the previous prototype the buttons weren't transparent enough to actually see anything ;-)
Apr 03 12:27:03 <thos> they're tri colour though, which is cool
Apr 03 12:27:12 <thos> you can poke random registers in uboot to get the to change colours
Apr 03 12:27:21 <thos> just wait for moko-disco!
Apr 03 12:27:22 <Sonicadvance> lol
Apr 03 12:27:23 <zedstar_> thos: ooooh cool
Apr 03 12:27:33 <SpeedEvil> I wish that it'd been possible to do backlight that way.
Apr 03 12:27:36 <zedstar_> mini traffic lights
Apr 03 12:27:44 <SpeedEvil> 1/16th of the display, seperately backlit.
Apr 03 12:29:02 <zedstar_> the nokia n810 LED is nice i think
Apr 03 12:35:02 <SpeedEvil> (And displaying of course)
Apr 03 13:11:22 <CIA-18> freesmartphone.org: 03hepaajan * r135 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/ (27 files in 2 dirs): gsmd2: More refactoring
Apr 03 13:20:19 <EmKayDK> So... I'm kinda new to this channel.. Doesn't anybody have any inside knowledge about the Freerunner that I couldn't have read in the wiki? :P
Apr 03 13:20:40 <anrp> probably not
Apr 03 13:20:51 <anrp> well, actually, sure, some people here have inside information
Apr 03 13:20:54 <anrp> no sharing, though D:
Apr 03 13:22:11 <EmKayDK> Dammit :D
Apr 03 13:22:55 <EmKayDK> Do anybody have a qualified guess as to when it will be available to the mass public then? :P
Apr 03 13:23:48 <Kronk> Did u read the topic of this channel ? ;)
Apr 03 13:24:07 <Kronk> Out of interest anyone using tango gps on thier Neo atm ?
Apr 03 13:26:20 <EmKayDK> Sure.. But maybe someone knew even more.. :P
Apr 03 13:26:45 <EmKayDK> I'm just so excited to get my hands on one.. That's all :)
Apr 03 13:26:50 <anrp> :\
Apr 03 13:26:53 <EmKayDK> Can't wait :P
Apr 03 13:27:01 <ScaredyCat> anrp: if they shared it, it'd be outside information ;(
Apr 03 13:27:04 <anrp> don't hang out here, you might lose some of your enthusiasm :(
Apr 03 13:27:05 <ScaredyCat> ;) even
Apr 03 13:27:31 <EmKayDK> anrp: Really? Why? :S
Apr 03 13:27:38 <Kronk> lol
Apr 03 13:28:26 <summatusmentis8> EmKayDK: have you read through the mailing lists?
Apr 03 13:32:22 <EmKayDK> summatusmentis: Well, I read the community updates. And I think I hav signed up for something a while ago.. Haven't received anything though
Apr 03 13:34:46 <summatusmentis8> EmKayDK: ok, then you're probably on par w/ the rest of us :)
Apr 03 13:37:25 <EmKayDK> summatusmentis: Hmm.. Ok..
Apr 03 13:38:14 <EmKayDK> Well.. Not much to do but wait anyway :)
Apr 03 13:39:24 <Kronk> Patience Grasshopper ;)
Apr 03 13:46:38 <thos> right
Apr 03 13:46:41 <CIA-18> openmoko: 03thomas * r4305 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/moko-gtk-engine/ (4 files in 3 dirs): 
Apr 03 13:46:41 <CIA-18> openmoko: 2008-04-03 Thomas Wood <thomas@openedhand.com>
Apr 03 13:46:41 <CIA-18> openmoko:  * src/moko-draw.c:
Apr 03 13:46:42 <CIA-18> openmoko:  * data/gtk-2.0/gtkrc:
Apr 03 13:46:44 <CIA-18> openmoko:  * data/gtk-2.0/openmoko-dialer:
Apr 03 13:46:46 <CIA-18> openmoko:  Completely redesign the visual style, with emphasis on simplicity and
Apr 03 13:46:48 <CIA-18> openmoko:  speed.
Apr 03 13:46:48 <thos> there you go folks
Apr 03 13:47:01 <thos> help me by trying it out and noticing bugs :-)
Apr 03 13:49:45 * mwester goes to sync up and attempt to notice some bugs :P
Apr 03 13:49:56 <Zmx> openMoko is skinable ?
Apr 03 13:50:02 <mwester> themable
Apr 03 13:50:11 <mwester> (is that a word?)
Apr 03 13:50:33 <Zmx> (excuse my poor english, i'm french :p )
Apr 03 13:51:07 <Kronk> theme able is sorta ok ;0
Apr 03 13:51:08 <Tanuva> it is, but dont ask me how to do it... should somehow work using simple GTK themes
Apr 03 13:51:08 <Kronk> ;)
Apr 03 13:53:57 <thos> oh
Apr 03 13:54:14 <thos> I should probably post some instructions
Apr 03 13:54:30 <thos> mwester, you need to build moko-gtk-engine package, install it, then switch to "Moko" theme
Apr 03 14:00:33 <ScaredyCat> !ombug 1311
Apr 03 14:00:35 <cdbot2> * * Bug 1311, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown
Apr 03 14:00:36 <cdbot2> * * scaredycat(AT)automated.it: libssp.so.0 is required for oh-puzzle but is not built...
Apr 03 14:00:37 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1311
Apr 03 14:01:19 <anrp> stack smashing...
Apr 03 14:01:26 <abraxa_> Is that a subtle hint, ScaredyCat? ;)
Apr 03 14:01:42 <ScaredyCat> :P
Apr 03 14:41:12 * Kronk goes to bed :)
Apr 03 14:41:13 <Kronk> cya
Apr 03 14:41:16 <thos> woo!
Apr 03 14:41:20 <thos> I have working LEDs!
Apr 03 14:41:22 <thos> amazing!
Apr 03 14:43:31 <mwester> I have *NO* leds. :(
Apr 03 14:43:51 <thos> aww
Apr 03 14:43:55 <thos> seems to be a bug
Apr 03 14:44:02 <thos> you can't have any more than one on at a time
Apr 03 14:44:03 <mwester> I have a GTA01 :(
Apr 03 14:44:22 <SpeedEvil> mwester: you have 3.
Apr 03 14:44:42 <mwester> I has a backlight.
Apr 03 14:45:20 <mwester> I have two green ones on my debug board,though.
Apr 03 14:48:27 * ScaredyCat has an rgb blob!
Apr 03 14:49:07 <SpeedEvil> I have a 1W white LED on my neo.
Apr 03 14:49:16 <summatusmentis> well, crap
Apr 03 14:49:18 <SpeedEvil> Unfortunately only in the most literal and uninteresting sense.
Apr 03 14:49:37 <SpeedEvil> As in I've got it ready for soldering into a flashlight to upgrade it.
Apr 03 14:49:45 <summatusmentis> I re-did my OM dir, because I didn't have all the correct packages installed, and forgot to turn off locale generation
Apr 03 14:50:08 <summatusmentis> so I'm about a third of the way through the build, and then I remembered that
Apr 03 14:50:16 <mwester> One has to wonder what it would have required to have placed a single LED behind the AUX button on the GTA01 -- such a useful little thing...
Apr 03 14:51:19 <SpeedEvil> mwester: someone to specify it
Apr 03 14:52:07 <summatusmentis> this is way too much work for me to play w/ the interface of the neo :)
Apr 03 14:53:14 <ScaredyCat> summatusmentis: so ctrl c it and then update your config, then start it again... 
Apr 03 14:53:24 <ScaredyCat> it'll only rebuild hwhat is hasn't done so far
Apr 03 14:53:33 <summatusmentis> reallY?
Apr 03 14:53:37 <ScaredyCat> yes
Apr 03 14:54:17 <ScaredyCat> it doesn't start from the beginning unless it has to
Apr 03 14:55:01 <mwester> And it's very often correct in it's determination of what needs to be redone, if anything.
Apr 03 14:55:22 <ScaredyCat> it has magic pixies inside
Apr 03 14:55:25 <mwester> (actually, bitbake is always correct; the issue is if humans have properly specified all the dependencies)
Apr 03 14:56:38 <summatusmentis> hmm, I feel like I tried that last time, and it re-built everything
Apr 03 14:57:05 <summatusmentis> but I'm probably on something
Apr 03 14:59:39 <mwester> It will re-read and recalculate all dependencies -- that's the spinner with the counter up to 5000+ -- but then it will go on with the revised dependency/version information, compute what is done, and begin working on what still needs to be done.
Apr 03 15:01:56 <ScaredyCat> it == magic pixies
Apr 03 15:02:22 <summatusmentis> lol
Apr 03 15:03:59 <cb22> summatusmentis: don't lol. magic pixies are used for lots of things in computers
Apr 03 15:04:10 <cb22> like how did you think python became so cool?
Apr 03 15:04:12 * Stephmw is using one right now
Apr 03 15:04:43 <cb22> *ahem*
Apr 03 15:05:34 <cb22> zomg magic pixie abuse
Apr 03 15:14:40 <Stephmw> bwahahahaha, UK .gov and wannabes clutching at open source straws... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/03/conservative_open_source/
Apr 03 15:14:53 <Stephmw> cb22: it's not abuse if the pixie asks for more
Apr 03 15:16:13 <cb22> Stephmw: yeah, but since the pixie is drunk...
Apr 03 15:16:40 <SpeedEvil> Is it over the age of pixie consent though?
Apr 03 15:16:44 <Stephmw> cb22: at least it's not underage
Apr 03 15:17:14 <cb22> Stephmw: just cause it said it was overage...
Apr 03 15:18:44 <Stephmw> cb22: I even have a signed model release!
Apr 03 15:32:33 <jadams_> how would I pipe wget to less?
Apr 03 15:32:42 <SpeedEvil> wget -O - or something
Apr 03 15:32:46 <anrp> you mean the file, or the output?
Apr 03 15:32:49 <SpeedEvil> what are you trying to do?
Apr 03 15:32:51 <cb22> wget -O - http://myurl | less ?
Apr 03 15:33:12 <cb22> if you want the output (ie, progress) you will need to pipe stderr
Apr 03 15:35:01 <wurp2> Has anyone looked into alternate screen lock programs?
Apr 03 15:35:27 <wurp2> I'm already getting scratches in the spot where the OM logo starts on a locked screen
Apr 03 15:35:38 <SpeedEvil> screen protectors
Apr 03 15:36:00 <wurp2> I agree that I should use a screen protector too
Apr 03 15:36:06 <Stephmw> wurp2: randomise the location of that logo :D
Apr 03 15:36:13 <wurp2> But it seems like it would be an easy problem to mitigate with software
Apr 03 15:36:14 <wurp2> yeah
Apr 03 15:37:05 <wurp2> Stephmw: The issue is that making that change is trivial
Apr 03 15:37:19 <wurp2> Stephmw: Setting up a build environment & getting the change into the trunk is not
Apr 03 15:37:41 * Stephmw nods
Apr 03 15:37:42 <wurp2> I wouldn't have the time to do enough work for it to make sense for me to maintain a build env
Apr 03 15:37:47 <Stephmw> wurp2: it's those pixies again
Apr 03 15:38:02 <wurp2> I would probably spend 2x as much time maintaining build env as making fixes
Apr 03 15:38:55 <wurp2> Obviously my magic pixies are inferior
Apr 03 15:39:00 <wurp2> Because the build never builds for me
Apr 03 15:39:13 <cb22> wurp2: Stephmw uses underage magic pixies
Apr 03 15:39:19 <cb22> thats why his are superior
Apr 03 15:39:20 <SpeedEvil> The build has broken for me in the past week.
Apr 03 15:39:29 <SpeedEvil> I even tried a fresh build.
Apr 03 15:39:54 <Stephmw> cb22: mine aren't superior, mine are just on sabbatical
Apr 03 15:40:12 <Stephmw> cb22: I'm taking a loooooong break from building OE/OM
Apr 03 15:40:18 <Stephmw> cb22: too much magic in the system
Apr 03 15:41:45 <zedstar_> there is a tarballed toolchain if u dont wanna get your hands messy with OE etc
Apr 03 15:44:11 * ScaredyCat must have well trained magic pixies...
Apr 03 15:45:26 <ScaredyCat> you could try : make more-magic-pixies
Apr 03 15:46:07 <anrp> magic..
Apr 03 15:56:04 <wurp2> zedstar_: Is that aimed at me or someone else, or just a comment in general?
Apr 03 15:56:39 <wurp2> It seems to me that a tarballed toolchain wouldn't be that helpful for making changes to core apps, but maybe I'm just wrong on that.
Apr 03 15:58:09 <zedstar_> wurp2: well not specifically at u......but it is another option for those struggling with OE if they wanna write some code
Apr 03 15:59:49 <zedstar_> wurp2: they are just tools.....gcc etc u can build what u like with them.....getting what u make into OM's images is something else
Apr 03 16:00:27 <gambler> the biggest stumbling block is compiling the damn thing...ive already did it and given up like 3 times
Apr 03 16:00:38 <gambler> i dont think my computer has the cajones
Apr 03 16:00:58 <gambler> someone should make an openmoko VM 
Apr 03 16:01:09 <wurp2> Compiling doesn't work on Ubuntu 7.10 in my experience
Apr 03 16:01:20 <wurp2> There is a tool version problem, I think in the assembler somewhere
Apr 03 16:01:40 <gambler> wurp2: ive had problems on fedora...ive sorted them out and then had new problems
Apr 03 16:01:44 <wurp2> There's an obscure flag that the Ubuntu version doesn't understand; I never found a correct version to install.
Apr 03 16:02:21 <zedstar_> wurp2 is this the tools built from mokomakefile or the tarballed toolchain?
Apr 03 16:02:30 * mwester has used fedora 5, 6, 7, & 8 (and CentOS 5.1) for OE without issues other than Qemu for years now.
Apr 03 16:03:43 <gambler> mwester: ill pay you $100 if u build an openmoko VM on fedora 8 for me and give me a link
Apr 03 16:03:50 <wurp2> zedstar_: mokomakefile
Apr 03 16:04:10 <anrp> ...
Apr 03 16:04:15 <anrp> fedora D:
Apr 03 16:05:43 * ScaredyCat offers mwester a bag of jelly babies not to
Apr 03 16:06:10 <thos> woo my accellerometers work
Apr 03 16:06:23 * thos tries mickey's xrandr hack
Apr 03 16:06:27 <zedstar_> wurp2: ive been using the tools built via mokomakefile on ubuntu for some time
Apr 03 16:06:53 <zedstar_> wurp2: i dont tend to update though very often to avoid breaking things
Apr 03 16:07:25 <gambler> ScaredyCat, why r u bein like that
Apr 03 16:07:36 * ScaredyCat is evil
Apr 03 16:07:42 * ScaredyCat must be stopped
Apr 03 16:08:32 <jadams_> SpeedEvil, cb22: both answers were what I wanted, thanks.  I'd already found it, but kudos anyway
Apr 03 16:09:07 <zedstar_> thos: cool now can u implement the scream sound affect when dropped :)
Apr 03 16:09:08 <gambler> i just transferred into my qemu-neo1973 directory
Apr 03 16:09:12 <wurp2> zedstar_: What version of ubuntu?
Apr 03 16:09:13 <gambler> typing make says:
Apr 03 16:09:14 <gambler> make: *** No rule to make target `/home/build/qemu-neo1973/hw/irq.c', needed by `irq.o'.  Stop.
Apr 03 16:09:22 <zedstar_> wurp: 7.10
Apr 03 16:09:30 <wurp2> dammit
Apr 03 16:09:32 <zedstar_> that is gutsy?
Apr 03 16:09:41 <thos> zedstar_, haha
Apr 03 16:09:42 <wurp2> I wish I knew what was wrong w/mine
Apr 03 16:12:43 <gambler> will all openmokos come in the same form factor or will some come with other packaging (eg. with buttons?) 
Apr 03 16:13:05 <gambler> once the new version comes out
Apr 03 16:14:54 <cb22> ScaredyCat eats his kittens
Apr 03 16:15:49 <zedstar_> gambler: i hope not.......me would like a keyboard
Apr 03 16:15:55 <anrp> hmm..interrupts are overrated
Apr 03 16:15:57 * anrp busy wait
Apr 03 16:16:55 <gambler> i would prefer a version of openmoko with 4 arrow buttons and a middle push button. i like the tactile feedback of keys over touchscreens
Apr 03 16:17:40 <thos> gambler, wouldn't we all
Apr 03 16:18:48 <ScaredyCat> .... have helio gone titsup.com ?
Apr 03 16:18:51 <gambler> thos: it seems like a very minor engineering challenge. basically new packaging and a little thing off the usb
Apr 03 16:19:04 <thos> gambler, but very expensive
Apr 03 16:19:16 <gambler> thos: why i dont understand
Apr 03 16:19:18 <thos> gambler, fabrication tooling is *very* expensive
Apr 03 16:19:48 <gambler> for injection moulded plastic cases? not really
Apr 03 16:19:55 <gambler> i know a bit about that
Apr 03 16:20:23 <gambler> i dont even think u need to change the board do you
Apr 03 16:20:27 <thos> gambler, you'd have to ask someone who knows the fabrication process
Apr 03 16:20:27 <ScaredyCat> http://www.helio.com/page?p=device_gallery_ocean
Apr 03 16:20:33 <ScaredyCat> like that please
Apr 03 16:20:36 <thos> gambler, the board is not expensive
Apr 03 16:20:48 <thos> gambler, all I know is changing the tooling is expensive
Apr 03 16:22:20 <zedstar_> scaredycat: yeh i like that design
Apr 03 16:22:21 <jadams_> someone needs to take a helio apart and put the moko in it
Apr 03 16:22:28 <gambler> thos: my family runs a big plastic injection moulded company...pretty sure its not too expensive.
Apr 03 16:22:49 <CIA-18> openmoko: 03thomas * r4306 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/moko-gtk-engine/ (ChangeLog autogen.sh): 
Apr 03 16:22:49 <CIA-18> openmoko: 2008-04-03 Thomas Wood <thomas@openedhand.com>
Apr 03 16:22:49 <CIA-18> openmoko:  * autogen.sh: Allow autotools 1.10
Apr 03 16:22:59 <thos> gambler, I don't think it's the same process
Apr 03 16:23:11 <thos> gambler, but by all means, take the designs and make something new :-)
Apr 03 16:23:26 <zedstar_> has that got 2 slide out keypads?
Apr 03 16:23:27 <thos> they're available on openmoko.com
Apr 03 16:24:10 <ScaredyCat> zedstar_  yes
Apr 03 16:24:45 <zedstar_> nobbing 2 birds with 1 johnny....i like it
Apr 03 16:25:15 <ScaredyCat> yeah... it looks good, plus has some extra buttons on the sides 
Apr 03 16:25:43 <zedstar_> they go for the sidekick market helio...."yoofs"
Apr 03 16:26:13 <Sup3rkiddo> hi all
Apr 03 16:26:39 <ScaredyCat> yeah, I don't want their s/w I have their h/w
Apr 03 16:26:48 <ScaredyCat> s/have/want/
Apr 03 16:26:48 <apt> ScaredyCat meant: yeah, I don't want their s/w I want their h/w
Apr 03 16:27:14 <zedstar_> yeh i hope openmoko do something along these lines
Apr 03 16:28:39 * thomasg_ ink spinnt -.-
Apr 03 16:31:52 <zedstar_> orange in europe are supposed to be releasing some samsung ALP based device this summer......curious to see what that is
Apr 03 16:33:14 <gambler> ALP?
Apr 03 16:34:07 <zedstar_> Access Linux Platform.....some Linux based thing that will run legacy Palm OS apps as well
Apr 03 16:35:18 <zedstar_> is gtk+ based at least
Apr 03 16:37:28 <CIA-18> openmoko: 03thomas * r4307 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/moko-gtk-engine/ (7 files in 3 dirs): 
Apr 03 16:37:28 <CIA-18> openmoko: 2008-04-03 Thomas Wood <thomas@openedhand.com>
Apr 03 16:37:28 <CIA-18> openmoko:  * data/matchbox/closebutton.xpm:
Apr 03 16:37:28 <CIA-18> openmoko:  * data/matchbox/menubutton.xpm:
Apr 03 16:37:29 <CIA-18> openmoko:  * data/matchbox/theme.desktop:
Apr 03 16:37:29 <anrp> palm os and gtk?
Apr 03 16:37:31 <CIA-18> openmoko:  * data/matchbox/theme.xml:
Apr 03 16:37:35 <CIA-18> openmoko:  Import OpenMoko matchbox theme and remove use of gradients
Apr 03 16:38:44 <anrp> no gradients? D:
Apr 03 16:40:41 <zedstar_> yeh im not overly excited about the palm bit
Apr 03 16:42:16 <thos> anrp, gradients suck
Apr 03 16:43:13 <zedstar_> the screen shots of the menus arent exactly revolutionary
Apr 03 16:43:47 <Vegar> are there screenshots?
Apr 03 16:44:11 <zedstar_> http://alp.access-company.com/ux/index.html
Apr 03 16:44:13 <zedstar_> yeh
Apr 03 16:44:48 <Vegar> meh
Apr 03 16:45:05 <Vegar> I meant of thos' changes
Apr 03 16:45:10 <zedstar_> lol
Apr 03 16:45:50 <zedstar_> that's a couple of minutes browsing of your life u will never get back then
Apr 03 16:46:03 <Vegar> hehe
Apr 03 16:46:16 <Vegar> it were a couple of interesting minutes
Apr 03 16:48:38 <Vegar> they were*
Apr 03 16:50:08 <thos> Vegar, there are some screenshots on my blog
Apr 03 16:51:37 <Vegar> not bad
Apr 03 16:56:04 <cb22> is there any way to stop a debug board from flashing a neo?
Apr 03 16:56:12 <SpeedEvil> sledgehammer.
Apr 03 16:56:25 <anrp> or blowtorch
Apr 03 16:56:30 <anrp> circular saw, mill, 
Apr 03 16:56:31 <anrp> etc
Apr 03 16:56:34 <SpeedEvil> A rabid duck.
Apr 03 16:56:46 <cb22> ... if you have to reset to that, couldnt you just take the connector off :)
Apr 03 16:56:49 <cb22> resort*
Apr 03 16:57:01 <SpeedEvil> Or blob epoxy over it
Apr 03 16:57:22 <cb22> but thats probably overkill for theif protection
Apr 03 16:57:31 <mwester> epoxy is probably the safest solution.
Apr 03 16:57:32 * anrp would tend to agree
Apr 03 16:57:40 <cb22> would it be possible to put a kernel in nor?
Apr 03 16:57:52 <anrp> sure, why not?
Apr 03 16:58:04 * raster puts his pr0n in nor
Apr 03 16:58:08 <anrp> nor is the usual kind of flash for that anyway, since its the older kind
Apr 03 16:58:21 <cb22> then foo something up so it cannot be flashed, even with a debug board?
Apr 03 16:58:35 <anrp> well the only real solution for that is mask rom
Apr 03 16:58:44 <SpeedEvil> Not really.
Apr 03 16:58:51 <SpeedEvil> You can make it practically impossible.
Apr 03 16:58:59 <anrp> but you can't make it actually impossible
Apr 03 16:59:03 <SpeedEvil> No.
Apr 03 16:59:23 <cb22> i suppose they could always desolder the flash chips
Apr 03 16:59:31 <SpeedEvil> But if they have to change the CPU, or remove the soldered down can over the CPU to probe JTAG, ...
Apr 03 16:59:36 <anrp> if you're willing to go that far, you're effectively rebuilding the device
Apr 03 16:59:41 <cb22> yeah
Apr 03 17:00:00 <cb22> and besides, 99% of theives wont know that a neo is special
Apr 03 17:00:09 <cb22> they will just be like 'zomg i stole fone lulz!'
Apr 03 17:00:15 <anrp> i think they would, actually
Apr 03 17:00:23 <anrp> i.e. "this phone looks terrible, i bet i can get $50 for it"
Apr 03 17:00:27 <raster> 99% of theives who will stal a phone are dumb n00bz
Apr 03 17:00:34 <SpeedEvil> The 'right' solution would be a variant of the SoC programming that supported security in the boot ROM.
Apr 03 17:00:35 <raster> acruallt 99.9999% moe likely
Apr 03 17:00:36 <raster> :)
Apr 03 17:00:45 <cb22> not realizing that their exact coords are being uploaded to a server as they speek
Apr 03 17:00:45 <raster> actually
Apr 03 17:00:58 <cb22> and various black helicopters are coming after them
Apr 03 17:01:05 <cb22> and a russian submarine too.
Apr 03 17:01:20 <cb22> raster: i agree, why steal one phone, when you can rob the whole factory! mwahahahahahaha
Apr 03 17:01:45 <cb22> although in that case, there would probably be some community viglantisim going on
Apr 03 17:02:10 <cb22> anrp: heh
Apr 03 17:03:53 <anrp> what would anyone do with 1000 neos?
Apr 03 17:04:02 <Qwell> beowulf cluster
Apr 03 17:04:05 <anrp> and i don't need to hear about some legendary folkhero
Apr 03 17:04:05 <cb22> damn
Apr 03 17:04:08 <Qwell> that's all I'm sayin'
Apr 03 17:04:09 <cb22> beat me to it :(
Apr 03 17:04:09 <anrp> ...christ, seconds too late
Apr 03 17:04:10 <anrp> !
Apr 03 17:04:16 <SpeedEvil> anrp: 68" screen?
Apr 03 17:04:28 <anrp> borders would be maddening
Apr 03 17:04:32 <anrp> but i guess you could do that
Apr 03 17:04:42 <cb22> yeah, and the 3d resolution would suck
Apr 03 17:04:50 <raster> cb22: the smart theives are busy heisting entire crates from the factory - not nicking 1 phone at a time from us low-life scum :)
Apr 03 17:04:52 <SpeedEvil> anrp: cook a chicken with the radios/
Apr 03 17:05:19 <anrp> or just skip the inefficiency of radio transmission and use the chemical oxidation of the lithium battery directly
Apr 03 17:05:24 <SpeedEvil> anrp: map a small country really quickly.
Apr 03 17:05:28 <anrp> i.e. burn the damn thing
Apr 03 17:05:44 <abraxa_> 1000 Neos could give a nice blast when fed the same sound
Apr 03 17:05:52 <SpeedEvil> phased array
Apr 03 17:06:02 <anrp> mmm a phased array would be neat
Apr 03 17:06:03 <abraxa_> Ultra-sonic weapon..
Apr 03 17:06:09 <anrp> although you'd need some form of synchronization
Apr 03 17:06:25 <cb22> wifi?
Apr 03 17:06:45 <raster> i uspect 1000 neos would be pretty inefficient fr compute power / cubic meter of space :)
Apr 03 17:07:00 <anrp> if you removed the screen, case and battery, i'm not so sure
Apr 03 17:07:07 <anrp> probably, yeah, but its hard to say
Apr 03 17:07:26 <anrp> since you don't need a lot of things for a cluster
Apr 03 17:07:28 <SpeedEvil> Not really.
Apr 03 17:07:54 <SpeedEvil> The Neo CPU is what - 1/50th that of a desktop processor.
Apr 03 17:08:24 <anrp> yes, but the volume of a desktop cpu is comparable to the entire system board of the neo
Apr 03 17:08:30 <anrp> whereas a desktop needs a pile of support
Apr 03 17:08:45 <SpeedEvil> not really - proportionaly.
Apr 03 17:08:54 <SpeedEvil> you can get very small cases with desktop CPUs
Apr 03 17:10:31 <abraxa_> We're too intelligent... while we still discuss the possibilities of having 1000 stolen Neos, other people are actually *doing* it and selling them for big $$$.
Apr 03 17:12:50 * anrp agrees with the first half of that statement
Apr 03 17:16:05 * SpeedEvil checks ebay.
Apr 03 17:16:13 * SpeedEvil finds no neos
Apr 03 17:19:11 <anrp> an untapped market!
Apr 03 17:28:49 * cb22 makes a mental note, if 1000 freerunners appear on ebay tomorrow, go looking for abraxa_ 
Apr 03 17:29:35 * abraxa_ whistles
Apr 03 18:18:05 <ar0x> SpeedEvil: http://cgi.ebay.fr/FIC-OpenMoko-Neo1973-Linux-Smartphone-Developer-Dream_W0QQitemZ110239257606QQihZ001QQcategoryZ22344QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p1638.m122
Apr 03 18:19:30 <ewon> bank wire transfer only
Apr 03 18:19:32 <ewon> dodgy
Apr 03 18:21:31 <Stephmw> pricy too, wire transfers cost money here
Apr 03 18:23:37 <cb22> ~lart freerunner's release date
Apr 03 18:23:37 * apt resizes freerunner's release date's terminal to 40x24
Apr 03 18:25:42 <wurp2|working> cb22: Was there some update to the FR release date?
Apr 03 18:26:28 <ewon> as much as it pains me
Apr 03 18:26:35 <ewon> I've decided against buying a freerunner
Apr 03 18:26:44 <cb22> wurp2|working: nope
Apr 03 18:26:44 <ewon> as I really need a device with a display readable in sunlight
Apr 03 18:26:47 <cb22> thats why
Apr 03 18:26:58 <ewon> ;_;
Apr 03 18:27:44 <wurp2|working> ewon: :-(
Apr 03 18:27:48 <cb22> stupid sun
Apr 03 18:27:58 <wurp2|working> Just always wear a hoodie
Apr 03 18:28:04 <cb22> the screen puts out 200NIT min according to the wiki
Apr 03 18:28:05 <abraxa_> ewon: Did you ever see the display in person?
Apr 03 18:28:09 <ewon> abraxa_: ja
Apr 03 18:28:11 <wurp2|working> with a drawstring, and a really deep hood
Apr 03 18:28:41 <ewon> that was a gta01 though
Apr 03 18:28:47 <abraxa_> ewon: Ah okay. Just asking cause I personally don't see a problem with that :)
Apr 03 18:29:02 <ewon> abraxa_: for a coder, I spent quite a lot of time outdoors :)
Apr 03 18:30:35 <abraxa_> ewon: Shame on you! You're ruining our hard-earned image as x-ray-tanned chick magnets!
Apr 03 18:33:41 * ScaredyCat goes to burn some chicken :/
Apr 03 18:34:00 * cb22 goes to burn some cats \:
Apr 03 18:50:02 <abraxa_> http://www.helio.com/page?p=devices_ocean_static - A neo like that and we'd have customers up the whazoo
Apr 03 18:50:59 <quicksand> wurp2|working: Alternate screenlock: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Quicksand#zedlock
Apr 03 18:51:23 <quicksand> (albeit in slow pre-alpha python proof-of-concept form, and not integrated into neod right now)
Apr 03 19:24:15 <wurp2|working> quicksand: Thanks
Apr 03 19:24:33 <wurp2|working> But I'm really looking for something I can replace neod with
Apr 03 19:24:56 <wurp2|working> Ooo, I like it!
Apr 03 19:25:28 <wurp2|working> Is anyone else having problems with the 3/27 release running very slowly after it's been up for hours?
Apr 03 19:25:45 <wurp2|working> Restarting X seems to solve the problem
Apr 03 19:25:57 <wurp2|working> It looks like a resource leak, most likely memory
Apr 03 19:26:03 <dcordes> thos, did you find some time to get your hands on qvga?
Apr 03 19:30:07 <wurp2|working> quicksand: So you got your math degree, then went into IP law?
Apr 03 19:30:50 <quicksand> wurp2|working: The modular replacement for neod (odeviced, or whatever it's called) hopefully will be able to use something like it.  Recent events (baby born in Feb.) have kept me from further development, but hopefully I'll dive back in.
Apr 03 19:31:04 <quicksand> wurp2|working: Yes, exactly.
Apr 03 19:31:11 <wurp2|working> quicksand: I know about that stuff - 3 kids here
Apr 03 19:31:39 <quicksand> The baby screams louder than the Neo, I'm afraid.  Wife too.  ;-)
Apr 03 19:32:00 <summatusmenti1> quicksand: use something like what?
Apr 03 19:32:11 <wurp2|working> I did something similar: double BS Phys/Math, but I do dev as my day job.  (That's two, two! two!! times the BS!)
Apr 03 19:32:40 <quicksand> summatusmenti1: alternative screen locker, like my prototype @ http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Quicksand#zedlock
Apr 03 19:32:53 <wurp2|working> Did you get a law degree too?  I thought that was required to practice...
Apr 03 19:33:35 <quicksand> Heh.  My undergrad concentration was in Physics.  And yes, I got a JD following the BS.  I'll let you decide which is more "BS."
Apr 03 19:33:52 <SpeedEvil> quicksand: which can you end the world with fastest?
Apr 03 19:34:24 <summatusmenti1> quicksand: why that over the single line that is current?
Apr 03 19:34:39 <quicksand> Despite the Bush administration's best efforts vis-a-vis dismantling our legal system, the world has not yet ended.  Ergo, the physics.
Apr 03 19:35:15 <quicksand> summatusmenti1: For one thing, I coded that up before the straight-line widget appeared.
Apr 03 19:35:16 <Stephmw> for those in the UK... C4 at 9pm, 'The Human Spider'
Apr 03 19:35:26 <summatusmenti1> oh, ok
Apr 03 19:35:33 <SpeedEvil> sterna: You? 
Apr 03 19:35:36 <SpeedEvil> Stephmw: :)
Apr 03 19:35:43 <quicksand> Also, my intention is to make it rotationally (and somewhat positionally) invariant, so you can do it without looking at the screen.
Apr 03 19:35:44 <kdean06> Anyone around here flash uBoot images from buildhost?
Apr 03 19:36:04 <SpeedEvil> quicksand: have you looked at xstroke?
Apr 03 19:36:13 <SpeedEvil> quicksand: for a simple somewhat invariant decoder
Apr 03 19:36:33 <wurp2|working> summatusmenti1:by "the single line that is current", do you mean the current neod screen unlocker?
Apr 03 19:36:34 <kdean06> The version of uBoot I'm running is old (January ish) and I no longer have a link to the file so that others can get it. I'd like to update to something more current, but I don't have a debug board so I'd like to ensure it's a "good" one first.
Apr 03 19:36:36 <sterna> SpeedEvil: yes?
Apr 03 19:36:47 <wurp2|working> kdean06: I have a good uboot image
Apr 03 19:36:50 <wurp2|working> From about 3 weeks ago
Apr 03 19:36:53 <SpeedEvil> sterna: sorry - too many people beginning with ste - I got confused.
Apr 03 19:36:55 <summatusmenti1> wurp2|working: yeah, the single drag down line that is currently used for unlocking
Apr 03 19:37:24 <kdean06> Hrm...
Apr 03 19:37:26 <wurp2|working> summatusmenti1: My reason to want another unlocker is that the current one makes me keep tapping in the same place over & over
Apr 03 19:37:44 <wurp2|working> And it's starting to scuff my screen
Apr 03 19:37:50 <summatusmenti1> oh really? doesn't register?
Apr 03 19:37:56 <sterna> i used to be idioterna, until freenode decided to make nicknames bearing the word "idiot" illegal
Apr 03 19:37:58 <wurp2|working> Oh, it works fine
Apr 03 19:38:09 <wurp2|working> But every time I unlock I have to tap & drag from the same place
Apr 03 19:38:09 <SpeedEvil> Anyone any idea why my images built over teh last week or so do not result in working phones when flashed?
Apr 03 19:38:11 <quicksand> SpeedEvil: Yeah, but for my purposes I didn't need that much.  Maybe in a subsequent version.
Apr 03 19:38:14 <summatusmenti1> oh, that makes sense
Apr 03 19:38:20 <wurp2|working> and that spot on the touchscreen is starting to wear
Apr 03 19:38:32 <summatusmenti1> I'm hoping the unlocker will be able to use finger touch, instead of stylus
Apr 03 19:38:45 <wurp2|working> It kind of does work
Apr 03 19:38:50 <wurp2|working> but then I smear the screen :-)
Apr 03 19:38:57 <summatusmenti1> lol
Apr 03 19:39:00 <quicksand> kdean06: I built uboot yesterday and flashed it -- seems fine & nothing exploded.  I can't vouch for the buildhost images though.
Apr 03 19:39:07 <kdean06> Hrm...
Apr 03 19:39:11 <summatusmenti1> is the screen set down from the rest of the face of the device?
Apr 03 19:39:20 <SpeedEvil> summatusmentis: somewhat, yes
Apr 03 19:39:21 <kdean06> I'll tempt fate here... I'll flash today's and see what happens. :P
Apr 03 19:39:29 <wurp2|working> SpeedEvil is right that I need a screen condom, but I'd also like to distribute the wear
Apr 03 19:39:36 <wurp2|working> kdean06: Ouch!
Apr 03 19:39:48 <wurp2|working> You know they aren't always good...
Apr 03 19:39:58 <summatusmenti1> SpeedEvil: what do you mean somewhat?
Apr 03 19:40:07 <wurp2|working> Oh, nm
Apr 03 19:40:13 <wurp2|working> I see that quicksand says it worked
Apr 03 19:40:51 <quicksand> wurp2|working: YMMV.  My previous uboot was from May'07, and I really wanted to do some additional things like boot from SD, so I took the risk.
Apr 03 19:41:14 <quicksand> Or maybe it was August.  In either case, OLD.
Apr 03 19:41:51 <SpeedEvil> summatusmentis: the apps seem to work - but the decor is broken. For example, the battery/GSM/... icons are all over to the left.
Apr 03 19:42:14 <SpeedEvil> summatusmentis: the dialer starts off in the top-left, with overlap from the home screen showing down the bottom and right.
Apr 03 19:42:28 <quicksand> summatusmenti1: I'd say the screen is about 2mm recessed.
Apr 03 19:42:30 <SpeedEvil> summatusmentis: and the keyboard is just broken, flashing on and off.
Apr 03 19:42:46 <summatusmenti1> quicksand: so there will be grime that sits in the corners?
Apr 03 19:42:48 <Stephmw> SpeedEvil: naw... but it's also a crazy frenchman
Apr 03 19:43:57 <quicksand> summatusmenti1: Oh, yes.  And sometimes it's hard to reach corners with a stylus unless it's exactly perpendicular to the screen.
Apr 03 19:44:12 <summatusmenti1> quicksand: bummer
Apr 03 19:44:13 <SpeedEvil> I make the setback about 2.8mm
Apr 03 19:44:29 <SpeedEvil> With a 45 degree corner beginning after the first 1.5mm or so.
Apr 03 19:44:32 <quicksand> You can get most of the grime out, though, and there's very little gap between the screen and the case, so you can scrape stuff out.
Apr 03 19:44:37 * SpeedEvil has a verneir caliper!
Apr 03 19:44:52 <SpeedEvil> vernier even.
Apr 03 19:45:10 <quicksand> SpeedEvil: sounds about right.
Apr 03 19:45:25 <SpeedEvil> Though when I picked it up I hoped it was a digital one. But the battery is flat again.
Apr 03 19:45:55 <quicksand> Heh.  Analog mode FTW.
Apr 03 19:46:40 <kdean06> HRm...
Apr 03 19:46:43 <kdean06> So far so good. :P
Apr 03 19:48:45 <anrp> i dunno, digital is far less thinking to use
Apr 03 19:48:50 <anrp> but it does need batteries
Apr 03 19:54:56 <SpeedEvil> also more accurate
Apr 03 19:55:24 <SpeedEvil> 2.61mm till it touches.
Apr 03 19:55:40 <SpeedEvil> Though if that's actually useful is debatable.
Apr 03 20:26:13 <ajbrun> is/will something like this be developed for the openmoko OS browser system?
Apr 03 20:26:14 <ajbrun> http://gizmodo.com/374937/video-samsung-instinct-lets-you-browse-web-pages-with-tilt-navigation-plus-its-under-300
Apr 03 20:26:24 <SpeedEvil> presumably.
Apr 03 20:26:30 <ajbrun> although i'm assuming something like this will be ofc
Apr 03 20:26:35 <SpeedEvil> ofc?
Apr 03 20:26:53 <ajbrun> of course
Apr 03 20:27:34 * anrp detects an OTS acrynym
Apr 03 20:27:45 <ajbrun> what's ots?
Apr 03 20:27:51 <anrp> on-the-spot ;o
Apr 03 20:28:01 <ajbrun> nope
Apr 03 20:28:06 <ajbrun> i've seen others use it
Apr 03 20:28:11 * ajbrun googles
Apr 03 20:29:02 <SpeedEvil> Oregano Tuna Sandwitch?
Apr 03 20:29:20 <ajbrun> http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/OFC
Apr 03 20:30:10 * wibbit wants the blasted phone to be released
Apr 03 20:31:14 <rahul_delight> Hi! I submitted my application for GSoC project reagarding Intelligent SMS for mobile phones few days back and have still not received any comments from a mentor. If any mentor is available here and interested in SMS based application for mobiles, please review my application and comment.
Apr 03 20:31:23 * ajbrun too
Apr 03 20:31:43 <ajbrun> someone in the OM list said they'd find more from michael today i think?
Apr 03 20:32:06 <SpeedEvil> rahul_delight: I'm unsure when the deadline is.
Apr 03 20:32:34 <abraxa_> rahul_delight: No comments might also mean "everything is okay".
Apr 03 20:32:38 <rahul_delight> the deadline is till monday 7 april
Apr 03 20:33:05 <rahul_delight> abraxa_: But i wanted to discuss my application and improve upon it
Apr 03 20:33:29 <rahul_delight> :)
Apr 03 20:34:13 <rahul_delight> Do I need to add my idea or any information about my idea/application on the openmoko gsoc page also?
Apr 03 20:34:18 <abraxa_> Well, mickey is currently being snowed in...
Apr 03 20:34:41 <abraxa_> No, only the google SoC web app
Apr 03 20:43:12 <pleaseandthankyo> have you ever been bullied extensively by your psychologist or someone lower than you who assumes the role of psychologist? what to do when your psychologist see you and know what your problems are and then bully me/you? what would you do? would you change your career so you can become a psychologist? you can't get helped with the police because police helps them.
Apr 03 20:43:46 <anrp> that's nice, but how does that relate to openmoko?
Apr 03 20:44:08 <SpeedEvil> he's a spammer
Apr 03 20:44:12 <josch> and where is the link to where i can buy your product? :P
Apr 03 20:44:39 <josch> lol
Apr 03 20:49:47 <macdonalder> "your ideas intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter"
Apr 03 20:49:48 <wurp2|working> Hmm, Scientology spammers?
Apr 03 20:49:51 <quicksand> josch: question regarding your Debian tarball:
Apr 03 20:50:06 <josch> quicksand, jop
Apr 03 20:50:24 <quicksand> I'm getting a "Warning: unable to open an initial console" then it goes no further.
Apr 03 20:50:24 <thos> dcordes, :-(
Apr 03 20:50:37 <quicksand> This comes right after the card comes online.
Apr 03 20:50:53 <thos> dcordes, you have to try and fix the matchbox theme
Apr 03 20:51:01 <thos> dcordes, I don't know why it is broken
Apr 03 20:51:24 <josch> quicksand, whoo this is bad :-(
Apr 03 20:51:30 <josch> never had this error
Apr 03 20:51:42 <josch> quicksand, does the kernel say this?
Apr 03 20:51:53 <josch> when exactly does this message come up?
Apr 03 20:52:50 <anrp> basically means that it can't find /dev/console
Apr 03 20:52:59 <anrp> so the rootfs is messed up, or udev isn't initializing it right
Apr 03 20:53:12 <anrp> (if it uses udev)
Apr 03 20:53:17 <josch> it does
Apr 03 20:53:37 <quicksand> I think it's the kernel, yes -- it comes up right after "Freeing init memory: 128K"
Apr 03 20:54:06 <josch> quicksand, how long do you have this evening? maybe i should just make a fresh rootfs from my current install
Apr 03 20:54:19 <josch> i have to admit that i never tried the tarball my own
Apr 03 20:54:33 <josch> i only tar'd it after successful install
Apr 03 20:54:36 <thos> dcordes, maybe you can file a bug about it
Apr 03 20:54:41 <pleaseandthankyo> do you know me inside out?
Apr 03 20:54:51 <thos> dcordes, I think stefan_schmidt might know how to fix it
Apr 03 20:54:52 <anrp> tar?
Apr 03 20:54:59 <anrp> taring devices can be fun
Apr 03 20:55:05 <anrp> it should work, but..
Apr 03 20:55:12 <josch> anrp, what would you suggest?
Apr 03 20:55:14 <SpeedEvil> anrp: not as fun as blending them.
Apr 03 20:55:45 <anrp> i use cpio, but it can't deal with large files (4gb)
Apr 03 20:56:23 <anrp> the k-line!
Apr 03 20:56:26 <anrp> that's uncommon
Apr 03 20:56:30 <quicksand> josch: I can try again tonight -- let me try to mknod the console on my system at home (on a Windows machine here at work right now) and try again before you make another tarball.
Apr 03 20:56:44 <anrp> anyway, i've also had issues with tar and symlinks
Apr 03 20:56:53 <ahven> <anrp> that's uncommon << not to me, as I have noticed over here
Apr 03 20:56:54 <anrp> i've never figured it out, since i switched to using cpio
Apr 03 20:57:01 <josch> quicksand, do you have enough time to do the install steps manually?
Apr 03 20:57:09 <anrp> sometimes tar would turn symlinks into 0 byte files
Apr 03 20:57:16 <josch> quicksand, it's just copypasta
Apr 03 20:57:19 <anrp> i couldn't figure out the sometimes
Apr 03 20:57:24 <anrp> copypasta... mmm
Apr 03 20:57:26 <anrp> you must eat it
Apr 03 20:57:42 <josch> its deliecious most of the times
Apr 03 20:57:43 <quicksand> josch: possibly.  I'll report back tomorrow.
Apr 03 20:57:47 <quicksand> What's your TZ?
Apr 03 20:57:56 <josch> quicksand, i'd be happy if you succeed!
Apr 03 20:58:04 <anrp> whos tomorrow are we talking about ;)
Apr 03 20:58:04 <josch> quicksand, germany
Apr 03 20:58:12 <josch> TZ are fun ^^
Apr 03 20:58:25 <quicksand> OK, I'm in San Francisco.  So my morning is already your afternoon.
Apr 03 20:58:31 <josch> hehe
Apr 03 20:58:46 <anrp> at least it's not a 12 hour difference
Apr 03 20:58:55 <anrp> makes the calculations simple and the communication impossible
Apr 03 20:58:56 <josch> np I only sleep for 8 hours - the rest of the time I'm available
Apr 03 20:59:50 <josch> i primise i will do a new tar tomorrow, which i will also test myself :-)
Apr 03 20:59:56 <josch> s/primise/promise
Apr 03 20:59:59 <quicksand> anrp: True.  I do a lot of business with Europe, and there's usually a little overlap when I come into work.  8/9 hr difference to CET, depending on whether summer time is in effect in either/both locations.
Apr 03 21:00:07 <ajbrun> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314458 <--- lol
Apr 03 21:00:13 <ajbrun> http://www.fsckin.com/2008/04/01/what-happens-when-you-call-microsoft-support-to-remove-linux/
Apr 03 21:00:17 * anrp premises himself
Apr 03 21:00:53 <anrp> huh?
Apr 03 21:00:54 * quicksand might premise himself, but is afraid a logical fallacy might result.
Apr 03 21:01:02 <anrp> i thought the winxp installer allowed you to delete partitions
Apr 03 21:01:36 <josch> ajbrun, looool!!
Apr 03 21:01:54 <ajbrun> :)
Apr 03 21:02:48 * anrp amusedly notes the self-proclaimed ability of the government to legislate the time
Apr 03 21:04:09 <ajbrun> damn - rick rolled again :(
Apr 03 21:04:18 <ajbrun> half way through the ms/linux vid
Apr 03 21:04:39 <anrp> how unoriginal
Apr 03 21:04:48 <ajbrun> i know - getting old now
Apr 03 21:04:53 <josch> ?
Apr 03 21:05:00 <josch> is the video not good?
Apr 03 21:05:04 <kdean06> anrp, You a free marketeer?
Apr 03 21:05:06 <josch> currently downloading it
Apr 03 21:05:15 <anrp> depends on the time of day
Apr 03 21:05:16 <anrp> ;)
Apr 03 21:05:22 <ajbrun> you'll see josch 
Apr 03 21:05:26 <josch> kk...
Apr 03 21:05:30 <ajbrun> do you know what rick rolling u
Apr 03 21:05:32 <ajbrun> is*#
Apr 03 21:05:34 <wurp2|working> I have yet to be rickrolled
Apr 03 21:05:42 <anrp> its easy not to be
Apr 03 21:05:47 <josch> youtube-dl -t http://www.youtube.com/v/0BIZ0Flr70A
Apr 03 21:05:50 <anrp> just post links in a public irc channel first to check it
Apr 03 21:05:53 * anrp coughs
Apr 03 21:06:09 <ajbrun> ...
Apr 03 21:06:20 <wurp2|working> hah
Apr 03 21:06:24 <ajbrun> gah - the irony is overpowering :(
Apr 03 21:10:48 <quicksand> josch: FYI, under /dev, only the following exist: core fd full kmem loop0...7 mem null port ptmx ram ram0...16 random stderr stdin stdout tty urandom zero
Apr 03 21:10:58 <anrp> no console D:
Apr 03 21:11:04 <quicksand> exactly.
Apr 03 21:11:15 <josch>  /dev is filled by udev
Apr 03 21:11:20 <quicksand> Confirmed by booting into OM and mounting the partition
Apr 03 21:11:26 <anrp> it should be, but isn't
Apr 03 21:11:29 <anrp> maybe it can't do it?
Apr 03 21:11:29 <josch> udev fills is dynamically
Apr 03 21:11:44 <anrp> well, udev is post-kernel-init (... i think!)
Apr 03 21:11:50 <anrp> so the critical ones have to exist first
Apr 03 21:12:23 <josch> well I have /dev/console here
Apr 03 21:12:39 <josch> oh nooo! it's rick!!
Apr 03 21:12:42 <anrp> anyway an mknod /dev/console c 5 1; chmod 0600 /dev/console
Apr 03 21:12:44 <anrp> might make it work
Apr 03 21:12:53 * anrp unsure of the chmod
Apr 03 21:13:50 <quicksand> anrp: was just about to try that . . . back in a few minutes.
Apr 03 21:14:27 * josch has been rickrolled... -.-
Apr 03 21:14:30 <josch> again...
Apr 03 21:14:37 <anrp> its funny the first time
Apr 03 21:16:06 <SpeedEvil> Rick Astley has recently been giving  interviews on the phenomenon.
Apr 03 21:16:07 <zedstar_> wonder if rick will make any money out of this again
Apr 03 21:16:15 <zedstar_> ah
Apr 03 21:16:18 <quicksand> mknod -m 660 /dev/console c 5 1  <<< what I'm trying
Apr 03 21:16:20 <zedstar_> he will
Apr 03 21:16:22 <SpeedEvil> However he was _insanelly_ popular at one time.
Apr 03 21:16:33 <SpeedEvil> Number one in damn near every country in the world.
Apr 03 21:16:43 <cb22> SpeedEvil: do you think it corrolates with crack usage figures?
Apr 03 21:16:57 <zedstar_> he used to be a tea boy at the record company or something weird before singing
Apr 03 21:17:38 <quicksand> Tea boy?  In charge of teabagging?
Apr 03 21:17:45 <abraxa_> rofl.
Apr 03 21:17:55 <anrp> probably not what he had in mind
Apr 03 21:18:00 <zedstar_> tea bagging now that is a vid i dont wanna see
Apr 03 21:18:39 <josch> quicksand, okay enough moko for me today - i will get back tomorrow and supply you with a fully tested tar archive
Apr 03 21:18:55 <quicksand> josch: Just a sec . . . I'm booting!
Apr 03 21:19:04 <josch> ah kk
Apr 03 21:19:28 <cb22> poor ScaredyCat, down graded from his nomination for a gta02p0 to a t-shirt :p
Apr 03 21:20:01 <ajbrun> any more news on mass production yet?
Apr 03 21:20:05 <quicksand> Closer, but not quite: now I get "Mount failed for selinuxfs on /selinux: No such file or directory" followed by "INIT: No inittab file found."
Apr 03 21:20:21 <quicksand> Meh.  Will try more later.  It did get past the console complaint, at least.
Apr 03 21:20:23 <cb22> ajbrun: dont think so :/ need my fix
Apr 03 21:20:32 <josch> everybody voting for josch get a two freerunner for the price of three from me! i promise!
Apr 03 21:20:59 <anrp> a steal at any price!
Apr 03 21:21:02 <anrp> ....wait, what?
Apr 03 21:21:27 <josch> quicksand, maybe it's easier for you to go through the manual installation process?
Apr 03 21:21:37 <josch> it took me 15 minutes to follow my guide
Apr 03 21:21:40 <quicksand> Yep, sounding that way.  I was lazy.
Apr 03 21:21:45 <josch> hehe
Apr 03 21:22:06 <quicksand> I had to update uboot and kernel, so after that I wanted instant gratification.
Apr 03 21:22:27 <josch> quicksand, you having your kernel on flash or sd?
Apr 03 21:22:54 <quicksand> Flash.  I have an SDHC 8GB card.
Apr 03 21:22:58 <ewon> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2398916025034509084
Apr 03 21:23:28 <anrp> sdhc?
Apr 03 21:23:28 <josch> quicksand, ah great me too
Apr 03 21:23:41 <josch> anrp, there is no normal 8 gig sd card :P
Apr 03 21:23:55 <quicksand> anrp: cards > 2GB are SDHC
Apr 03 21:23:57 <SpeedEvil> Flash Ahah!
Apr 03 21:23:58 <wurp2|working> I'm waiting until my 2gb feels too confining
Apr 03 21:24:05 <wurp2|working> They just keep dropping in price, and I'm cheap
Apr 03 21:24:08 <SpeedEvil> I upgraded to 5GB
Apr 03 21:24:11 <SpeedEvil> err 4
Apr 03 21:24:14 <SpeedEvil> 13 quid.
Apr 03 21:24:20 <wurp2|working> Very nice
Apr 03 21:24:24 <SpeedEvil> and it goes at 3M/s read and write in the neo
Apr 03 21:24:24 <wurp2|working> That's what I paid for 2
Apr 03 21:24:25 <cb22> ... $26
Apr 03 21:24:32 <anrp> the quid
Apr 03 21:24:37 <wurp2|working> But I had a Radio Shack card, so I had to find something to buy there
Apr 03 21:24:45 <quicksand> I paid like $90 for my 8GB, which is probably close to 13 quid these days.
Apr 03 21:24:57 <wurp2|working> er, that's what I paid for *1* 2gb card
Apr 03 21:24:59 <SpeedEvil> quicksand: still only around 46.
Apr 03 21:25:13 <cb22> its so nice that 1euro = 1.5 dollars. makes conversions in my head so much easier
Apr 03 21:25:31 <quicksand> cb22: 1:1 was even easier
Apr 03 21:25:42 <quicksand> WAS
Apr 03 21:25:44 <SpeedEvil> Anotehr conversion wasn't so nice for me.
Apr 03 21:25:45 <wurp2|working> It would be even nicer if I had converted $50,000 US to euros a coupla years ago
Apr 03 21:25:46 <cb22> quicksand: yeah, now they use that with the CAD
Apr 03 21:25:57 <SpeedEvil> I misread the amount of fuel that I put into my car.
Apr 03 21:26:28 <SpeedEvil> As for years - it's been under one pound per litre, so you just read the high number for quantity.
Apr 03 21:27:21 <cb22> here we are moaning about $1.10 or so / litre
Apr 03 21:28:51 <abraxa_> I didn't think it was that cheap in south Africa
Apr 03 21:29:19 <cb22> south africa has a very cheap cost of living
Apr 03 21:29:26 <abraxa_> Interesting
Apr 03 21:29:40 <cb22> a maid / domistic worker / person who cooks, cleans, irons, does dishes etc, is R2500 a month or so
Apr 03 21:29:46 <dcordes> thos, there already is a bug. see #1283
Apr 03 21:29:51 <wurp2|working> Heh, here we complaing about $0.85 / liter or so
Apr 03 21:30:01 <cb22> that is $315 a month
Apr 03 21:30:12 <cb22> for practically a servent
Apr 03 21:30:18 <anrp> ~_~
Apr 03 21:30:18 <apt> :/
Apr 03 21:30:26 <cb22> abraxa_: where it hits you is anything it related
Apr 03 21:30:57 <abraxa_> cb22: What do you mean?
Apr 03 21:31:04 <abraxa_> IT related?
Apr 03 21:31:17 <cb22> yeah, like pcs, phones, etc
Apr 03 21:31:21 <cb22> internet
Apr 03 21:31:33 <abraxa_> Ah okay, I wasn't sure if you meant IT or "it" :)
Apr 03 21:31:45 <cb22> heh, 2x the price
Apr 03 21:32:05 <abraxa_> Well, I live in Europe so I'm used to technology being expensive
Apr 03 21:32:30 <lunartear> does the gta02 accept sim cards?
Apr 03 21:32:59 <cb22> lunartear: its all it takes
Apr 03 21:33:09 <lunartear> ok
Apr 03 21:34:11 * anrp attemps to plug in a verizon wireless usb card
Apr 03 21:35:12 <josch> * anrp  fails miserably *
Apr 03 21:35:20 <cb22> why?
Apr 03 21:35:25 <cb22> usb host :)
Apr 03 21:35:34 <cb22> all you need is some magic
Apr 03 21:35:47 <cb22> s/some/lots of/
Apr 03 21:35:48 <apt> cb22 meant: all you need is lots of magic
Apr 03 21:36:01 <anrp> one +5 supply later, i'm in business
Apr 03 21:39:37 <cb22> i remember hearing that gta02 can run off usb with no battery, but a bit crippiled, like no gsm
Apr 03 21:39:57 <cb22> would it be different running off the 1a wall charger?
Apr 03 21:40:17 <anrp> depends on if its current limit based or ripple/transient response based
Apr 03 21:40:49 <anrp> and if the circuitry is designed such that it's even possible
Apr 03 21:40:57 <wurp2|working> Does FR have three charge modes?  100mA, 500mA, 1000mA?
Apr 03 21:41:17 <anrp> 1a isn't allowed through USB, although lots of hosts provide it
Apr 03 21:41:19 <wurp2|working> cb22: From what I read, it wouldn't make any difference if you had 1000 mA
Apr 03 21:41:36 * anrp points to UL
Apr 03 21:41:39 <SpeedEvil> wurp2|working: it sort of does.
Apr 03 21:41:41 <wurp2|working> gsm was just not on the right circuit to power from USB
Apr 03 21:41:47 <cb22> i remember hearing something about the pmu and power paths. maybe the modem can only draw from the battery
Apr 03 21:41:52 <SpeedEvil> wurp2|working: 3.6V*1.2Ah = 4.5Wh
Apr 03 21:42:08 <wurp2|working> does fast_cccv stilll mean 500 mA?
Apr 03 21:42:12 <anrp> it could easily be
Apr 03 21:42:21 <SpeedEvil> wurp2|working: This is 900mA or so for one hour charge completely neglecting on current.
Apr 03 21:42:26 <anrp> since a battery can be modelled as a honking huge capacitor, which means almost no ripple
Apr 03 21:42:45 <wurp2|working> SpeedEvil: one hour charge goodness
Apr 03 21:43:05 <cb22> yummy
Apr 03 21:43:18 <anrp> only if the charge controller supports it
Apr 03 21:43:27 <SpeedEvil> wurp2|working: of course there are battery techs that could give you an 800mAh battery that'll charge in 5 mins.
Apr 03 21:43:36 <SpeedEvil> well - 10 mins.
Apr 03 21:43:38 <cb22> how fast can the battery take it?
Apr 03 21:43:46 <wurp2|working> And is there somet other string you can send to the charge sys filelike thing to set it to 1A?
Apr 03 21:43:46 <SpeedEvil> cb22: 1 hour is about the limit.
Apr 03 21:44:01 <cb22> SpeedEvil: does it normally end with an exploision :p
Apr 03 21:44:03 <ScaredyCat> thos: ping
Apr 03 21:44:05 * ScaredyCat slaps cb22
Apr 03 21:44:08 <anrp> also, if the charge controller isn't switching based, it could need to dissipate anywhere from (5-3.2)*1=1.8W to (5-4.2)*1=0.8W
Apr 03 21:44:16 <anrp> which is a not insignificant amount of power
Apr 03 21:44:42 <abraxa_> wurp2|working: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=956
Apr 03 21:44:48 * cb22 counterslaps ScaredyCat 
Apr 03 21:45:21 <cb22> anrp: eww, heat.
Apr 03 21:45:47 <SpeedEvil> anrp: everything is
Apr 03 21:45:53 <cb22> btw, is the charging controller switching?
Apr 03 21:46:03 <SpeedEvil> cb22: yes - from memory
Apr 03 21:46:07 <SpeedEvil> (of GTA01)
Apr 03 21:46:14 <wurp2|working> abraxa_: So the short answer is, not yet, and no one has weighed in on if it's even possible?
Apr 03 21:46:23 <anrp> that would explain the funniness on removing the battery with usb applied
Apr 03 21:46:28 <anrp> destabilize the control loop D:
Apr 03 21:46:32 <wurp2|working> It is annoying that now they call 1A fast charge
Apr 03 21:46:50 <wurp2|working> ppl keep thinking that my fast charge app will do 1A on the FR
Apr 03 21:46:53 <wurp2|working> which I doubt
Apr 03 21:47:37 <abraxa_> wurp2|working: I'm not sure what you're refering to. 1A charging is possible and there seems to be a kernel patch to allow it
Apr 03 21:48:06 <wurp2|working> abraxa_: (it == setting 1A charge mode programatically)
Apr 03 21:48:18 <cb22> also, i remember some things from awhile ago, like only drawing 20ma in 100ma mode, have those been fixied / dont exist in p2?
Apr 03 21:48:26 <cb22> s/p2/02/
Apr 03 21:48:27 <apt> cb22 meant: also, i remember some things from awhile ago, like only drawing 20ma in 100ma mode, have those been fixied / dont exist in 02?
Apr 03 21:48:42 <ScaredyCat> anyone with wvn access ?
Apr 03 21:48:53 <ScaredyCat> s/wvn/svn/
Apr 03 21:48:53 <apt> ScaredyCat meant: anyone with svn access ?
Apr 03 21:50:20 <wurp2|working> abraxa_: The bug you sent me talks about wanting to override the charge mode, but no one addresses the question that I can see
Apr 03 21:51:43 <wurp2|working> (override the charge mode "in userspace", which I assume means programatically from a userspace app)
Apr 03 21:52:52 <abraxa_> wurp2|working: Yeah, I have no idea about that, unfortunately
Apr 03 21:54:55 <wurp2|working> cb22: I think it was like 50mA or 60mA, and I would be shocked if that issue exists in FR
Apr 03 21:55:18 <wurp2|working> You might email the list asking about it, though.  Someone should check it w/ an ammeter
Apr 03 21:59:47 <mwester> There's been next to zero work done on the gta01 kernel, so if the problem is not common to both 01 and 02, it's probably still present.
Apr 03 22:00:24 <mwester> (also, the recent emails seem to have "cut loose" the gta01 to community support, so if there are gta01 kernel problems, it's up to us to fix them.
Apr 03 22:00:27 <mwester> )
Apr 03 22:01:25 <mwester> There's some concern about the two kernels diverging, but the way I see it, it is inevitable, so we might as well start right now.
Apr 03 22:06:18 <wurp2|working> cb22: Thanks for the comment about using my finger to unlock
Apr 03 22:06:29 <abraxa_> I'm not sure... should be worth to bring it up on the dev ML. Andy and Werner are the only kernel guys right now as far as I can tell and they got tons of stuff to do with GTA02 still - which is their current priority, no doubt
Apr 03 22:06:37 <wurp2|working> Apparently I was too stupid to actually start doing that until someone told me to
Apr 03 22:25:59 <ewon> anyone here with a gta02?
Apr 03 22:26:36 <ajbrun> ewon - how many people do you think have a gta02 total?
Apr 03 22:26:58 <ajbrun> considering they're not in mass production yet
Apr 03 22:27:43 <ewon> abraxa_: obviously, buy presumably there are a few devs on-channel
Apr 03 22:28:11 <abraxa_> Evil highlighter :)
Apr 03 22:29:00 <abraxa_> If I'd have to guess I'd say that about 5 people here have one
Apr 03 22:29:27 <abraxa_> ...except for raster - he has a few
Apr 03 22:30:04 <raster> i have 2
Apr 03 22:30:13 <raster> one of them is currently broken without a screen
Apr 03 22:30:16 <raster> so really - only 1
Apr 03 22:30:33 <abraxa_> Aww
Apr 03 22:38:12 <raster> awww indeed
Apr 03 22:38:13 <raster> :)
Apr 03 22:41:37 * josch would even be happy to own a broken gta02...
Apr 03 22:41:51 <josch> good night till tomorrow mokos!
Apr 03 22:42:20 <raster> mokomonkies!
Apr 03 22:42:21 <raster> :)
Apr 03 23:12:02 <summatusmentis> w00t! 500 more tasks to go!!
Apr 03 23:12:55 * SpeedEvil notes that ¹his builds over the last week bave benbroken.
Apr 03 23:12:59 <SpeedEvil> have been broken
Apr 03 23:13:12 <summatusmentis> lol, I should've been paying more attention
Apr 03 23:13:14 <summatusmentis> crap
Apr 03 23:13:17 <summatusmentis> broken how?
Apr 03 23:13:41 <SpeedEvil> boots, windows are messed up
Apr 03 23:14:02 <SpeedEvil> No topbar other than teh status icons - which are stuck on the left.
Apr 03 23:14:29 <summatusmentis> oh
Apr 03 23:14:38 <summatusmentis> that's stupid
Apr 03 23:14:58 <SpeedEvil> application sstart in stop rileft cornet.
Apr 03 23:15:03 <SpeedEvil> top left.
Apr 03 23:15:20 * CoreDump hands SpeedEvil a new keyboard
Apr 03 23:15:21 <SpeedEvil> with gaps to bottom and right showing home screen.
Apr 03 23:15:31 <SpeedEvil> CoreDump: the problem is I usually use a laptop.
Apr 03 23:15:39 <SpeedEvil> With a slightly smalle rhtn nominal keyboar.d
Apr 03 23:15:48 <SpeedEvil> At the momebnt however, I'm using a full sized one.
Apr 03 23:15:58 <CoreDump> ;)
Apr 03 23:15:58 <SpeedEvil> With a 5s ping time due to downloading stuff.
Apr 03 23:16:07 <CoreDump> eww
Apr 03 23:16:12 <summatusmentis> I really like laptop keyboards, i always feel weird on a fullsize keyboard
Apr 03 23:16:24 * summatusmentis tends to prefer laptops over desktops also
Apr 03 23:16:32 <CoreDump> same here
Apr 03 23:16:36 <SpeedEvil> I love my laptop. 
Apr 03 23:16:50 <SpeedEvil> But a like-for-like new replacement is _hudeously_ expensive.
Apr 03 23:17:03 <SpeedEvil> As it's 1.1Kg and 8h battery life.
Apr 03 23:17:12 <CoreDump> yeah, that's the problem with laptops
Apr 03 23:17:31 <CoreDump> 8h certainly is impressive
Apr 03 23:17:45 <SpeedEvil> It used to be 4h when it came outof the factory.
Apr 03 23:17:49 <SpeedEvil> But batteries got better.
Apr 03 23:17:53 * CoreDump s does a lousy 1.5 hrs
Apr 03 23:18:01 <SpeedEvil> It came with 1300Mah cells, I put in 2500mAh
Apr 03 23:18:23 <summatusmentis> I gget 5h on low screen brightness
Apr 03 23:18:29 <summatusmentis> SpeedEvil: what kind of computer is it?
Apr 03 23:18:42 <SpeedEvil> toshiba portege 3110CTY
Apr 03 23:18:49 <CoreDump> I guess you guys aren't running dualcore laptops =)
Apr 03 23:18:50 <SpeedEvil> CT
Apr 03 23:18:56 <summatusmentis> CoreDump: I am
Apr 03 23:18:59 <SpeedEvil> PII?300
Apr 03 23:19:16 <summatusmentis> CoreDump: Macbook(pre-santa rosa)
Apr 03 23:19:36 * CoreDump sighs at his crappy batterylife
Apr 03 23:19:48 <CoreDump> oh well, can't have everything
Apr 03 23:19:59 <summatusmentis> yeah, but you get a neo
Apr 03 23:20:10 <CoreDump> true =)
Apr 03 23:21:12 <wurp2|working> I much prefer my Kinesis kbd to laptop or normal...
Apr 03 23:22:53 <summatusmentis> not a fan of split keyboards, probably because I don't type using orthodox ten finger typing
Apr 03 23:23:04 <wurp2|working> yeah, that would be a hindrance
Apr 03 23:23:11 <SpeedEvil> ¹http://roland-ramthun.de/osm/official/planet-latest.osm.bz2
Apr 03 23:23:19 <SpeedEvil> oops
Apr 03 23:23:46 * Stephmw pounces on the link
Apr 03 23:24:01 <SpeedEvil> It contains all the worlds porn.
Apr 03 23:24:06 <SpeedEvil> Well - in a sense anyway.
Apr 03 23:24:24 <SpeedEvil> (complete database dump of openstreetmap.org - a world streetmap)
Apr 03 23:24:26 <wurp2|working> Much of the world's porn I find kind of horrifying
Apr 03 23:24:47 <ewon> you're doing it wrong
Apr 03 23:24:55 <wurp2|working> No, I think they are
Apr 03 23:24:55 <SpeedEvil>  3% [>                                    ] 122,438,288  147.05K/s  ETA 7:22:22
Apr 03 23:26:10 <Stephmw> SpeedEvil: good thing you don't sleep, eh?
Apr 03 23:26:27 <SpeedEvil> I'm planning on going to sleep in a bit.
Apr 03 23:26:37 <Stephmw> wha?
Apr 03 23:26:43 <Stephmw> you can't do that to me!
Apr 03 23:26:49 <SpeedEvil> I do sleep.
Apr 03 23:27:06 <SpeedEvil> I simply have very disturbed sleep patterns.
Apr 03 23:27:47 <Stephmw> so do I at the moment
Apr 03 23:28:29 <summatusmentis> babies? or just weird sleeping hours?
Apr 03 23:28:58 <SpeedEvil> None of the former.
Apr 03 23:29:01 <SpeedEvil> (as far as I know)
Apr 03 23:29:14 <zash> sleep is for ppl that have jobs
Apr 03 23:29:33 * Stephmw has a job... sleep... is for people without things on their mind
Apr 03 23:29:49 <summatusmentis> Stephmw: I hear that man, been there
Apr 03 23:30:26 * Stephmw sighs. Being a married geek has its own set of challenges.
Apr 03 23:31:51 <SpeedEvil> ¹/me remembers that blog.
Apr 03 23:32:00 <SpeedEvil> And wanders over to look at the REiser trial.
Apr 03 23:32:24 <Stephmw> haha
Apr 03 23:32:31 <Stephmw> no, I'm not about to off the missus
Apr 03 23:32:51 <SpeedEvil> No - you just reminded me.
Apr 03 23:33:05 <SpeedEvil> The trial reports are interesting.
Apr 03 23:34:16 <SpeedEvil> In many ways he comes across as your average asocial geek .
Apr 03 23:36:38 <abraxa_> SpeedEvil: What happened to Reiser anyway? I never followed up on his case
Apr 03 23:36:57 <SpeedEvil> ¹He;'s currently on trial for teh murder of his wife.
Apr 03 23:37:00 <SpeedEvil> In custody.
Apr 03 23:37:15 <abraxa_> Still? Wah...
Apr 03 23:37:18 <SpeedEvil> Some of the stuff - the car seat for exmaple has plausible explantions.
Apr 03 23:37:23 <abraxa_> I thought it's been quite a while already
Apr 03 23:37:40 <summatusmentis> I thought he'd killed himself?
Apr 03 23:37:47 <summatusmentis> or did I make that up?
Apr 03 23:37:48 <SpeedEvil> (he broke his feet in a gym, has poor circulation, and so it was uncomfortable to be sleeping in his car.
Apr 03 23:38:09 <SpeedEvil> So he removed the seat, so he could sleep more comfortably.
Apr 03 23:38:21 <abraxa_> Why would he sleep in his car to behin with?
Apr 03 23:38:25 <SpeedEvil> Why he was sleeping in the car - paranoia - is another question - but...
Apr 03 23:39:02 <SpeedEvil> Tehre is nothing that is obviously implausible. Merely very asocial.
Apr 03 23:39:16 <abraxa_> ...which makes him look like a psycho :(
Apr 03 23:40:22 <SpeedEvil> Of an employee of a school he says 'Reiser said he wanted to go in and out after checking on whether his mother was on the pickup list. "I didn't want to interact with her," he said. "She actually wanted to, like, have this whole human interaction, let's be touchy-feely dance kind of thing," he said, moving his arms up and down and smiling. "And I understand that. But I just wanted to go in and come out," he said.'
Apr 03 23:40:43 <SpeedEvil> which is sort of charachteristic.
Apr 03 23:45:09 <anrp> of course he's going against a group of the community peers, not his peers
Apr 03 23:45:14 <anrp> in the jury
Apr 03 23:45:21 <SpeedEvil> yeah
Apr 03 23:45:36 <anrp> so it will be hard to gloss over
Apr 03 23:45:41 <SpeedEvil> I suspect a substantial fraction of people here would identify with that last in some way.
Apr 03 23:47:51 <abraxa_> What does "to go in and out" mean in this context?
Apr 03 23:48:01 <abraxa_> I can't quite grasp the paragraph you quoted
Apr 03 23:48:13 <SpeedEvil> get into the school - get the information - get out
Apr 03 23:48:22 <SpeedEvil> rather than actually talk to people
Apr 03 23:48:30 <abraxa_> Ahh okay
Apr 03 23:49:37 <abraxa_> "On January 17, 2007, the Reisers' son, Rory Reiser, was scheduled to testify, but failed to appear. Judge Julie Conger asked that Rory return to court and clarify his conflicting testimony, but he never did because his maternal grandmother failed to bring the children back from Russia as promised."
Apr 03 23:50:11 <abraxa_> Makes me wonder if Reiser's wife somehow went to Russia and lives there now, together with the kids
Apr 03 23:50:32 <SpeedEvil> That's the basic defence case - partially.
Apr 03 23:50:34 <abraxa_> ...while Reiser gets blamed for murder, which hasn't even been proven to have occured
Apr 03 23:50:34 <Stephmw> it'd be a really good way to screw Reiser
Apr 03 23:50:57 <abraxa_> That's so screwed up, whatever way you look at it
Apr 03 23:51:08 <SpeedEvil> His wife has previously travelled around the world without passport too - which has raised suspicions there.
Apr 03 23:51:19 <abraxa_> How can you do that?
Apr 03 23:51:35 <SpeedEvil> Go to russian consulate 'I lost muy passport'
Apr 03 23:51:46 <abraxa_> eh
Apr 03 23:52:11 <SpeedEvil> (She's russian)
Apr 03 23:53:27 <abraxa_> Yeah
Apr 03 23:53:41 <abraxa_> And the fact that she applied for Russian citizenship for her kids tells a lot to me
Apr 03 23:54:40 <abraxa_> Poor Reiser...
Apr 04 00:13:02 <SpeedEvil> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/localnews/category?blogid=37&cat=1428 is the blog - in extreme detail 
Apr 04 00:13:11 <abraxa_> Reading it actually
Apr 04 00:13:11 <SpeedEvil> not quite word forr word - buyt approaching.
Apr 04 00:13:30 <abraxa_> Either he's a total klutz and *really* bad with people or he has something to hide
Apr 04 00:14:00 <abraxa_> Knowing the kernel ML discussions I'd say it's the former but I can imagine others don't buy it
Apr 04 00:14:25 <SpeedEvil> Yeah - he came over quute abrasively tehere.
Apr 04 00:14:28 <SpeedEvil> At times.
Apr 04 00:15:36 <abraxa_> "Hora asked if it was true Reiser never followed up on his kids' welfare -- as far as them getting picked up or not -- after making that 5:04 p.m. call. Reiser said that's true, [...] "I'm an inconsiderate asshole."
Apr 04 00:15:42 <abraxa_> Yeah, you could say so
Apr 04 00:38:07 <Moniker42> hey, how do i filter the openmoko mailing list?
Apr 04 00:38:24 <Moniker42> i.e. apply a filter to move openmoko mailing lists... 
Apr 04 00:38:28 <Moniker42> listid=openmoko?
Apr 04 00:40:10 <SpeedEvil> typically
Apr 04 00:40:22 <SpeedEvil> Sorry - I don't know
Apr 04 00:40:38 <Moniker42> it was a vague question
Apr 04 00:40:46 <Moniker42> i'm running low on caffeine... :)
Apr 04 00:41:31 <ewon> too much blood in your caffeine stream
Apr 04 01:50:19 <rtm> Is there anyone online who is familiar with the projects.openmoko.org site? In particular, does anyone know how to categorize a project within the Trove Software Map?
Apr 04 01:53:09 <Mek> rtm: on the admin page of your project theer should be a "Trove Categorization: [Edit]" link...
Apr 04 01:53:56 <rtm> Thanks!
Apr 04 02:02:21 <rtm> Mek: I'm afraid I now have an even more basic question - How do I get to the admin page?   When I select my project, I see tabs for Summary Forums Tracker Lists Tasks Docs Surveys News SCM and FIles, but nothing for admin. I am listed at the only "developer" for the project, but I see nobody listed under Project Admins.   Do I have to do something to become the admin?   I'm the only person working on this project at the moment.
Apr 04 02:03:41 <kdean06> ScaredyCat, I tried your theme today. I personally think it's hideous but there may be something to this "it's faster" thing. :)
Apr 04 02:04:03 <kdean06> I might try to test it more... concretely. :)
Apr 04 02:04:31 <kdean06> "Hideous" being a totally subjective, personal opinion. :)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Apr 04 02:59:56 2008