**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Apr 07 02:59:56 2008
Apr 07 03:29:00 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1321 has been created by erin_yueh(AT)openmoko.com
Apr 07 03:29:01 <cdbot2> * * switch to headset mode in Dialer
Apr 07 03:29:02 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1321
Apr 07 03:42:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1322 has been created by allen_lin(AT)openmoko.com
Apr 07 03:42:01 <cdbot2> * * Background noise during conversation
Apr 07 03:42:02 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1322
Apr 07 03:49:00 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1323 has been created by allen_lin(AT)openmoko.com
Apr 07 03:49:01 <cdbot2> * * Speaker icon doesn't work
Apr 07 03:49:02 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1323
Apr 07 03:52:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1324 has been created by allen_lin(AT)openmoko.com
Apr 07 03:52:02 <cdbot2> * * Headset doesn't work
Apr 07 03:52:03 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1324
Apr 07 04:51:30 <ccfly> good morning :)
Apr 07 04:52:33 <summatusmentis> it's not morning! O\_/O
Apr 07 04:52:41 <ccfly> it is here
Apr 07 04:52:52 <summatusmentis> well... fair enough
Apr 07 04:53:09 <raster> 'avo fellas
Apr 07 04:53:22 <summatusmentis> `avo? what does that mean?
Apr 07 04:54:47 <raster> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=avo
Apr 07 04:55:29 <summatusmentis> interesting. are you in australia raster ?
Apr 07 04:55:40 <raster> 'fukin betcha!
Apr 07 04:55:53 <summatusmentis> cool
Apr 07 04:56:00 <summatusmentis> I've always kinda wanted to go there
Apr 07 04:56:37 <rtm> Does anyone know which package I should uninstall if I want to get rid of all the little games line "Bridge", "Fifteen" et al.?
Apr 07 04:59:01 <raster> summatusmentis: why haven't u gone?
Apr 07 04:59:02 <raster> :)
Apr 07 04:59:43 <summatusmentis> because I'm a freshman in college this year, and have no money
Apr 07 05:00:16 <raster> aaaah the god 'ol money excuse!
Apr 07 05:00:36 <roh> raster hey.. thats why i dont have a driving license
Apr 07 05:00:48 <summatusmentis> it's not really an excuse, just a reason
Apr 07 05:00:52 <raster> summatusmentis:  can you swim?
Apr 07 05:00:53 <raster> :)
Apr 07 05:00:54 <Agrajag-> raster: from what i understand, the american education system is much worse off than ours :P
Apr 07 05:00:59 <summatusmentis> raster: yes, but not that far :)
Apr 07 05:01:06 <raster> excuses!
Apr 07 05:01:07 <raster> :)
Apr 07 05:01:14 <summatusmentis> Agrajag-: worse off how?
Apr 07 05:01:32 <raster> Agrajag-: no idea. i thought ours pretty much was suxky
Apr 07 05:01:33 <Agrajag-> summatusmentis: the amount it costs, mainly
Apr 07 05:01:34 <raster> sucky
Apr 07 05:01:48 <raster> roh: but you do use 3g for your internet... :)
Apr 07 05:02:03 <summatusmentis> Agrajag-: oh, yeah, it's kind of ridiculuous. I'm not paying that much, but even still, I don't have money
Apr 07 05:02:17 <roh> raster not anymore. but the pcmcia card is right here... for backup
Apr 07 05:02:32 <raster> roh: hahahahah
Apr 07 05:02:54 <roh> raster and believe me.. eee-pc and some small 3g modem are a killer combination this summer. fits in every girls handbag
Apr 07 05:03:10 <raster> roh: hmmmm very good point
Apr 07 05:03:15 <raster> girls love those eepc's
Apr 07 05:03:23 <raster> size does matter
Apr 07 05:03:24 <raster> :)
Apr 07 05:03:29 <SpeedEvil> roh: some of the very smallest modems look like they might almost be internalisable.
Apr 07 05:03:30 <roh> hrrr
Apr 07 05:03:50 <roh> SpeedEvil yep. too sad that the minipci-express modems are so expensive and hard to come by
Apr 07 05:04:00 <SpeedEvil> I was meaning the USB sticks
Apr 07 05:04:21 <roh> would want such a 7.2mbit hsdpa sierra wireless.. fits into  my thinkpad and the eee
Apr 07 05:04:39 <roh> SpeedEvil well.. i know that huawei-egg... still a bit too large
Apr 07 05:04:54 <roh> altleast for an eee or a thinkpad
Apr 07 05:05:10 <SpeedEvil> there are smaller
Apr 07 05:05:28 <roh> mompls... need to hit the bakery downstairs.. 7am
Apr 07 05:05:49 <raster> mmmm bakery
Apr 07 05:05:51 <summatusmentis> anyone here using gsm data in the US?
Apr 07 05:05:56 <raster> roh:  get some bretzeln for me
Apr 07 05:06:21 <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-USB-MODEM-STICK-HUAWEI-E169G-PAY-AS-U-GO-SIM-HSDPA_W0QQitemZ160225494822QQihZ006QQcategoryZ96912QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem forex
Apr 07 05:08:33 <SpeedEvil> Or 
Apr 07 05:08:44 <SpeedEvil> http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-broadband/laptop/pay-monthly/t-mobile/usb-modem-stick/overview/?ref=newhome_usbstickhttp://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-broadband/laptop/pay-monthly/t-mobile/usb-modem-stick/overview/?ref=newhome_usbstick
Apr 07 05:08:46 <SpeedEvil> http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-broadband/laptop/pay-monthly/t-mobile/usb-modem-stick/overview/?ref=newhome_usbstick
Apr 07 05:08:48 <SpeedEvil> even
Apr 07 05:10:37 <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-USB-MODEM-STICK-HUAWEI-E169G-PAY-AS-U-GO-SIM-HSDPA_W0QQitemZ160225494822QQihZ006QQcategoryZ96912QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem - Dimensions: 87.3mm x 25.3mm x 12mm
Apr 07 05:10:50 <roh> re
Apr 07 05:11:16 <roh> raster wrong end of the republic. no real good ones here in berlin. but they have schrippen ;)
Apr 07 05:11:19 <SpeedEvil> So without the case, 70*20*8mm is probably reasonable.
Apr 07 05:11:34 <SpeedEvil> Which is probably still too large for the eeepc
Apr 07 05:12:21 <SpeedEvil> Or the GTA01 :)
Apr 07 05:12:39 <roh> hm.. could fit into the space for the minipci express card on the eee
Apr 07 05:12:40 <ccfly> maybe eee is to small but not GTA01 ! ;)
Apr 07 05:12:58 <SpeedEvil> roh: there are two card slots
Apr 07 05:13:15 <SpeedEvil> roh: one is occupied by the minipci modem
Apr 07 05:13:44 <SpeedEvil> roh: the other may have either a minipci connector or not - depending on where you are. Eitehr way - each has a free USB2 port needing only soldering.
Apr 07 05:14:45 <SpeedEvil> There have been lots of mods published - for example - USB hub + bluetooth + 16G USB flash drive in the 'spare' bay.
Apr 07 05:16:04 <roh> SpeedEvil i know.. already modded mine for bt
Apr 07 05:17:16 <summatusmentis> if I were to purchase a tmobile wap plan for the neo, my traffic would be routed through a wap gateway, would this then send make every website show up as wap on the neo?
Apr 07 05:18:10 <SpeedEvil> summatusmentis: WAP is not the internet.
Apr 07 05:18:13 <SpeedEvil> summatusmentis: where are you?
Apr 07 05:18:33 <raster> roh:  what.. no bretzeln! BLASPHEMY!
Apr 07 05:19:47 <SpeedEvil> Have any recent patches been made to make the headset button work?
Apr 07 05:19:48 <SpeedEvil> http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=695
Apr 07 05:19:57 <SpeedEvil> is not changed at all.
Apr 07 05:19:57 <roh> raster they have some.. but there are subtile differences ;I)
Apr 07 05:20:39 <SpeedEvil> (on GTA01)
Apr 07 05:23:10 <SpeedEvil> Anyone happen to have their headset to hand?
Apr 07 05:23:16 <SpeedEvil> I seem to have mislaid mine.
Apr 07 05:25:05 <summatusmentis> SpeedEvil: I'm in the US
Apr 07 05:25:23 <summatusmentis> I'm trying to plan out data plans (I'm obsessive, i know)
Apr 07 05:26:56 <SpeedEvil> Generally, WAP is not the web.
Apr 07 05:27:03 <SpeedEvil> GPRS is what you want for the web.
Apr 07 05:27:18 <SpeedEvil> This is basically a PPP connection to your mobile phone companies NOC.
Apr 07 05:27:52 <summatusmentis> NOC?
Apr 07 05:27:55 <SpeedEvil> At the 'APN'. This then breaks out onto the internet - usually through some NAT soluition, so inbound connections don't work - to the internet proper.
Apr 07 05:28:03 <SpeedEvil> Network Operating Center
Apr 07 05:28:10 <SpeedEvil> Their main building
Apr 07 05:28:47 <summatusmentis> SpeedEvil: http://wiki.howardforums.com/index.php/T-Mobile_Data#T-MobileWeb If I set a neo to that, would it only be showing wap pages?
Apr 07 05:28:58 <summatusmentis> or would i be getting full internet, just pretending it was wap?
Apr 07 05:30:16 <SpeedEvil> It looks like you want T-Mobile Internet internet2.voicestream.com
Apr 07 05:31:03 <summatusmentis> that's what I was trying to figure out, as to whether or not I could get away w/ the TmobileWeb solution
Apr 07 05:31:13 <summatusmentis> the Internet one is $20/mo
Apr 07 05:31:59 <roh> 20$ .. nice
Apr 07 05:32:10 <SpeedEvil> As I understaqnd it, no.
Apr 07 05:32:14 <roh> 12Euro.. wow
Apr 07 05:32:29 <summatusmentis> roh: well, that's on top of voice, and it's not probably really unlimited
Apr 07 05:32:31 <SpeedEvil> Call tech-support. Ask if you can surf to any website.
Apr 07 05:32:33 <roh> its still 20-25E here. some carriers up to 40
Apr 07 05:33:12 <roh> summatusmentis if you want voice or not is disconnected from that. can have both on one sim or both on seperate sims.. or only one of that.
Apr 07 05:34:28 <summatusmentis> roh: I suppose that's true
Apr 07 05:34:42 <summatusmentis> but it still works out to $50/mo
Apr 07 05:34:44 <summatusmentis> approx
Apr 07 05:37:33 <ahven> kindof expencive
Apr 07 05:37:45 <roh> thats about 32euro.. cost of a dsl landline flat with voip
Apr 07 05:39:45 <roh> hm.. i wish there would a be a directory which lists all telco-contracts one can get now and could get before with timeline and tarif matrix..
Apr 07 05:39:56 <summatusmentis> ahven: exactly
Apr 07 05:40:31 <raster> roh: unacceptable! what's life without wonderful yummy bretzeln!
Apr 07 05:40:40 <ahven> paying 9¤ for my Neo's internet (3GB a month @ GPRS) and 12¤ for my mobile (3GB @ EDGE)
Apr 07 05:42:20 <summatusmentis> SpeedEvil: from what I'm reading, i can point the phone to a proxy, and get real internet
Apr 07 05:44:08 <SpeedEvil> What do you mean by proxy?
Apr 07 05:44:15 <raster> apoxy
Apr 07 05:44:19 <raster> glue it
Apr 07 05:44:19 <SpeedEvil> The APN is not a proxy
Apr 07 05:44:35 <SpeedEvil> It's the endpoint of the PPP connection.
Apr 07 05:44:58 <SpeedEvil> (which has to be one of your ISPs designated APNs and you have to have authorisation to use it)
Apr 07 05:45:10 <summatusmentis> SpeedEvil: no, I know. I think you then have to set up the net applications to go through a proxy
Apr 07 05:45:28 <summatusmentis> from what I'm reading the 'wap plan' just has a lot of ports closed
Apr 07 05:46:08 <roh> *mumble* 
Apr 07 05:46:23 <roh> need new workstation.. notebook hddio is much too slow
Apr 07 05:46:39 * SpeedEvil passes roh a really fast flash drive.
Apr 07 05:46:47 <roh> too small ;)
Apr 07 05:46:52 <raster> roh:  indeed
Apr 07 05:46:59 <raster> i lived on a laptop for a while
Apr 07 05:47:07 <raster> but frankly desktop hdd and IO is just so much better
Apr 07 05:47:10 <raster> faster memory bus
Apr 07 05:47:15 <raster> faster cpus
Apr 07 05:47:16 <raster> etc.
Apr 07 05:47:28 <raster> u can plug in external screens. keyboards etc. all u like into a lappy
Apr 07 05:47:31 <raster> but its still.. a lappy
Apr 07 05:47:40 <roh> raster i can life with 2.4ghz core2duo on 667 ram. just disk io is too slow, even with 7k2 umin sata hdds.
Apr 07 05:48:03 * SpeedEvil ponders. RAImicroSD
Apr 07 05:48:19 <roh> but its quiet. i like that.. actually i do not want any computers which make noise without reason
Apr 07 05:48:42 <raster> roh:  sure. tho my desktop is quiet
Apr 07 05:48:47 <raster> got a good silent fan in it
Apr 07 05:48:54 <raster> the nvidia gfx actually is noisier than anything else
Apr 07 05:49:08 <roh> hrhrhr
Apr 07 05:49:08 <raster> damn cheap-arse gpu fans
Apr 07 05:49:17 <raster> i should replace it with something decent
Apr 07 05:49:23 <summatusmentis> SpeedEvil: I was looking into it, there should be a way w/ md that one could use the root flash on the neo and a microsd to act as a single raid device
Apr 07 05:49:41 <roh> yeah.. what do they need fans for anyways. i do not need 3d. i want decent 2d with loads of pixels and dvi connectors
Apr 07 05:50:03 <roh> on nice thing on notebooks. trackpoint AND  touchpad. need both.
Apr 07 05:50:14 <roh> and hi-res lcd compared to the desktop stuff
Apr 07 05:50:21 <roh> (high dpi)
Apr 07 05:50:44 <raster> roh: well u want the compositing for 2ed
Apr 07 05:50:57 <raster> but frankly... that could be kept in the 2d part of chips
Apr 07 05:51:00 <roh> raster only when i get it in source.
Apr 07 05:51:02 <raster> but reality means the 3df bit does it now
Apr 07 05:51:25 <raster> i have a built-in gmx3000 on the motherboard
Apr 07 05:51:28 <roh> i have never had solid and stable machines when some frickin binary blob was in play. just fucks up somewhere and nags me
Apr 07 05:51:39 <raster> but i prefer my dual-dvi out of my nvidia 8600 :)
Apr 07 05:52:15 <roh> btw.. currently compiling drm and xorg-driver-ati from git... will see if it helps
Apr 07 05:53:00 <summatusmentis> goodnight all
Apr 07 05:53:16 <CIA-41> openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4312 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-dialer.c): openmoko-dialer2: fix cannot dial 112 from dialer UI
Apr 07 05:55:42 <raster> hmm vnidia's drivers are pretty stable.... for me
Apr 07 05:55:48 <raster> about the same as intel
Apr 07 05:55:52 <raster> nvidia's
Apr 07 05:56:09 <roh> raster you do not use dynamic multihead or suspend, do you?
Apr 07 05:56:23 <raster> it's a desktop
Apr 07 05:56:24 <raster> :)
Apr 07 05:56:37 <roh> well.. reboot time.. bbias
Apr 07 05:56:51 <raster> abd on my laptop dynamic multi-head works quite well with the nvidia drivers
Apr 07 05:57:02 <raster> suspend - thats iffy
Apr 07 05:57:09 <raster> but i dont know if its nvidia or not
Apr 07 06:01:20 <SpeedEvil> Hmm. Nice. T-mobile (UK) PAYG - you can now get 5 day 'web pass' - unlimited GPRS for 5 days for 2.50
Apr 07 06:01:22 <SpeedEvil> http://www.google.co.uk/firefox?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official
Apr 07 06:01:25 <SpeedEvil> err
Apr 07 06:01:32 <SpeedEvil> http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/price-plans/pay-as-you-go/
Apr 07 06:03:12 <rtm> Does anyone know if there is a way to suppress the little pop-up windows on the neo which appear whenever the unit connects to its service provider?
Apr 07 06:19:24 <methril> morning
Apr 07 06:27:39 <raster> 'avo
Apr 07 06:39:19 <methril> 'avo ??
Apr 07 06:39:28 <methril> what does it means raster?
Apr 07 06:41:11 <raster> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=avo
Apr 07 06:43:59 <cb22> hmph, whenever i hear the word avo, i get hungry
Apr 07 06:44:49 <cb22> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=avocado
Apr 07 06:48:43 <methril> thnks raster :)
Apr 07 06:54:37 <dvarnes> raster: should really spell it arvo, even though we never say the r!  :-)
Apr 07 06:55:02 <raster> i know
Apr 07 06:55:03 <raster> i
Apr 07 06:55:06 <raster> m being phonetic :)
Apr 07 06:55:11 <dvarnes> :-)
Apr 07 06:56:07 <roh> mmmh.. exa still doesnt like me.. well xaa works
Apr 07 07:14:41 <CIA-41> openmoko: 03sean_chiang * r4313 10/trunk/src/target/audio/fic-gta02/ (gsmspeakerout.state headset.state): for gsm speaker out and normal headset
Apr 07 07:24:32 <SpeedEvil> Does anyone happen to have a headset handy?
Apr 07 07:24:57 <cb22> sure, does anyone happen to have a neo handy?
Apr 07 07:25:40 <SpeedEvil> I do - I just have mislaid my headset.
Apr 07 07:27:17 <CIA-41> openmoko: 03sean_chiang * r4314 10/trunk/src/target/audio/fic-gta02/gsmspeakerout.state: gsm speacker out and mic
Apr 07 07:27:48 <SpeedEvil> Oh noes! The Spelling!
Apr 07 07:27:54 * SpeedEvil runs away.
Apr 07 07:28:28 <roh> SpeedEvil you understood what he meant and it had only one meaning.. be lucky!
Apr 07 07:30:28 <josch> Unknown HZ value! (93) Assume 100.
Apr 07 07:30:29 <josch> Unknown HZ value! (93) Assume 100.
Apr 07 07:30:31 <josch> Unknown HZ value! (93) Assume 100.
Apr 07 07:30:38 <josch> <= does anybody know what this is??
Apr 07 07:30:56 * cb22 mumbles about the thread on the mailing list
Apr 07 07:30:58 <roh> josch what are you doing?
Apr 07 07:31:12 <cb22> the same people who want more dates, are the ones complaining that the dates haven't been stuck too
Apr 07 07:31:15 <josch> compiling eet on my neo
Apr 07 07:31:45 <SpeedEvil> Mmmm. Dates.
Apr 07 07:31:56 * SpeedEvil goes to dig in the cupboard.
Apr 07 07:32:14 <josch> i encoutered this message also on openmoko
Apr 07 07:32:23 <doc|home> cb22: in fairness, michael was supposed to talk to someone called steve on thursday and send out a mail
Apr 07 07:32:24 <josch> does anybody know what it means?
Apr 07 07:32:50 <roh> josch not really.. google says its a bug which is gone with 2.6.24.. *sigh*
Apr 07 07:33:05 <josch> möp
Apr 07 07:33:25 <josch> restarted the build - now it's gone...
Apr 07 07:33:53 <josch> i was blaming openmoko for this thing but now it's happening on debian too - has to be a kernel thingy
Apr 07 07:56:43 <Hopscotch> good morning
Apr 07 07:59:05 <mbuf> Hopscotch, good morning
Apr 07 07:59:41 <fredthecat> Morning
Apr 07 08:00:45 <josch> raster, hi! as we know from mickeyls post some time ago the evas fb engine is considerably faster than the x11. we also know that x11_16 is faster than x11. did you ever do benchmarks with other engines like directfb, sdl, xrender... if not then i will do some expedite benchmarks on my gta01
Apr 07 08:01:32 <josch> did i double post? my isp kicked me out of the net...
Apr 07 08:03:06 <raster> josch: fb is not significantly faster
Apr 07 08:03:15 <josch> on gta01 ?
Apr 07 08:03:21 <raster> yup
Apr 07 08:03:35 <josch> http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/12/08/framebuffer-vs-x11/
Apr 07 08:03:37 <raster> i have actually sped it up
Apr 07 08:03:47 <raster> thats old
Apr 07 08:03:51 <josch> oh kk
Apr 07 08:04:23 <raster> notice the difference when rendering is complex is almost none
Apr 07 08:04:27 <raster> i can tell u why too
Apr 07 08:04:38 <raster> the fb engine converts to 16bpp from 32bpp AS it copies to the fb
Apr 07 08:04:42 <josch> so if i wanna go for pure speed - leaving anything aside - what would be the fastest engine on gta01? fb? and what would it be on freerunner?
Apr 07 08:04:47 <raster> the x11 enigne needs to first convert and copy to a tmp buf
Apr 07 08:04:49 <raster> then copy to screen
Apr 07 08:04:54 <raster> that is the only extra cost
Apr 07 08:04:57 <raster> for x11 vs fb
Apr 07 08:05:17 <josch> i thought it might be slower because of the extra layer of x11
Apr 07 08:05:28 <raster> i am not even testign dfb - it wont be faster. it wil be slower and lower quality.
Apr 07 08:05:31 <raster> no matter what
Apr 07 08:05:36 <josch> okay
Apr 07 08:05:38 <raster> unless it does accelerattion - which it wont anywhere
Apr 07 08:05:41 <raster> its not us3eful
Apr 07 08:05:47 <emdete> raster: are there drawbacks with fb?
Apr 07 08:05:53 <raster> xrender woudl be usefil if it is acceleated - on gta02 only
Apr 07 08:05:55 <josch> emdete, moin ^^
Apr 07 08:06:04 <emdete> mojn josch :D
Apr 07 08:06:05 <raster> emdete:  yes. only 1 process can draw to the screen
Apr 07 08:06:12 <raster> no way to share it
Apr 07 08:06:23 <emdete> raster: if i wouldn't care, just for performance
Apr 07 08:06:25 <josch> emdete, ha! this is what i saw a dew weeks ago!
Apr 07 08:06:26 <raster> so those benchmarks are old
Apr 07 08:06:31 <raster> i added an shm cache into evas
Apr 07 08:06:42 <raster> to avoid fetching fresh memory pages and having the kernel zero them out
Apr 07 08:06:56 <raster> its probably some of the most advanced software rendering stuff for x11 now
Apr 07 08:06:56 <raster> :)
Apr 07 08:07:11 <raster> in fact... on my desktop i have an nvidia 8600gt
Apr 07 08:08:26 <josch> emdete, do you remember when i told you that it was impossible for me to run zad and pylgrim at the same time because the graphics got messed up?
Apr 07 08:08:35 <raster> gl:
Apr 07 08:08:39 <raster> 1048.49 , EVAS SPEED
Apr 07 08:08:42 <raster> software_x11:
Apr 07 08:08:48 <raster> 860.05 , EVAS SPEED
Apr 07 08:09:01 <raster> software is giving hardware accelerated gl a run for its money
Apr 07 08:09:13 <emdete> josch: no... i do all the time.
Apr 07 08:09:20 <josch> lol?
Apr 07 08:09:28 <josch> emdete, but you do it in the same canvas?
Apr 07 08:09:34 <josch> not with seperate processes?
Apr 07 08:09:37 <emdete> raster: but the main cpu is free to do something else
Apr 07 08:09:44 <emdete> josch: noe
Apr 07 08:09:52 <emdete> josch: sep. processes
Apr 07 08:09:54 <raster> emdete: well - probhably, but u don't notice
Apr 07 08:09:56 <josch> then i have to test it agaon
Apr 07 08:09:58 <raster> its spinning anyway
Apr 07 08:10:01 <raster> :)
Apr 07 08:10:15 <raster> my point tho is
Apr 07 08:10:20 <raster> the software engine is highly optimised
Apr 07 08:10:27 <emdete> raster: so whats the current state of the glamo-software?
Apr 07 08:10:40 <raster> glamo acceleration?
Apr 07 08:11:27 <emdete> raster: whatever brings speed ;)
Apr 07 08:11:56 <SpeedEvil> yes?
Apr 07 08:12:06 <raster> let me plug in my neo's
Apr 07 08:12:11 <emdete> no, no evil speed. e speed ;)
Apr 07 08:12:27 * SpeedEvil never uses e.
Apr 07 08:12:34 <raster> ok
Apr 07 08:12:36 <emdete> SpeedEvil: you should...
Apr 07 08:12:38 * josch wonders how raster ever manages to hack some code if he's lurking @ #openmoko 24/7...
Apr 07 08:12:39 <raster> gta01 is dead - needs a charge
Apr 07 08:12:41 <raster> gta02 then
Apr 07 08:12:42 <SpeedEvil> Or any other illegal drugs.
Apr 07 08:13:11 <raster> 'emd anyway glamo - right now the only thing the glamo does accelerated is blits (copies from screen to screen or form pixmap to screen or pixmap to pixmap)
Apr 07 08:13:14 <raster> and solid color fills
Apr 07 08:13:19 <raster> nothingt else of interest really
Apr 07 08:13:28 <SpeedEvil> And video playback
Apr 07 08:13:34 <raster> josch:  i tend to ignore irc most of the day
Apr 07 08:13:35 <raster> :)
Apr 07 08:14:12 <raster> SpeedEvil:  yes. that too - but that in itself is dubiously useful as u likely will not even manage qvga as tkjust uploading qvga @30fps will eat up most of the glamo bandwidth
Apr 07 08:14:18 <raster> (in yuv)
Apr 07 08:14:26 <raster> and u have very little cpu left to do decode
Apr 07 08:14:45 <raster> anyway
Apr 07 08:14:50 <raster> xrender is the engine that u likely want
Apr 07 08:14:56 <raster> as it in theory can accelerate the most
Apr 07 08:15:02 <raster> not everything can be accelerated
Apr 07 08:15:11 <emdete> raster: but recently that was slower than x11_16 - has that improved?
Apr 07 08:15:17 <raster> and future features in evas when it expands willlikely not be able to be accelerated
Apr 07 08:15:20 <raster> but basic stuff could be
Apr 07 08:15:31 <raster> i actually started makign the xrender engine 16bpp aware just for the glamo
Apr 07 08:15:32 <SpeedEvil> raster: I was assuming the DCT engine could be used
Apr 07 08:15:37 <raster> and yes
Apr 07 08:15:39 <raster> xrneder is slow
Apr 07 08:15:47 <raster> thats because currently u see a pure software impl of xrender
Apr 07 08:15:50 <raster> int he xserver
Apr 07 08:16:03 <raster> its software is far slowe than evas's own "in-house" stuff
Apr 07 08:16:13 <raster> SpeedEvil:  it can't be :(
Apr 07 08:16:20 <raster> and likely never will be
Apr 07 08:16:21 <raster> :/
Apr 07 08:16:23 <SpeedEvil> Not for video?
Apr 07 08:16:27 <SpeedEvil> Oh dear.
Apr 07 08:16:27 <raster> not within xv
Apr 07 08:16:39 <raster> we have a problem right now
Apr 07 08:16:45 <raster> glamo docs are nda
Apr 07 08:16:50 <SpeedEvil> Yeah.
Apr 07 08:16:52 <raster> right now the only people with docs are OM
Apr 07 08:17:04 <raster> we can't release those nda'd docs
Apr 07 08:17:09 <raster> i can talk all i want about the glamo
Apr 07 08:17:13 <raster> but i can't give u the docs
Apr 07 08:17:19 <raster> so the community cant go implement stuff
Apr 07 08:17:24 <raster> we need to do it
Apr 07 08:17:34 <raster> and frankly - we will eventually have new products
Apr 07 08:17:48 <raster> and glamo drivers wil be a finiancially silly thng to invest time and money on
Apr 07 08:17:56 <raster> the longer time goes on.
Apr 07 08:18:04 * SpeedEvil points raster to cryptome.org
Apr 07 08:18:13 <raster> so really xglamo will always implement a subset of what in theory can be done with the glamo
Apr 07 08:18:20 <SpeedEvil> The calypso docs are already there. The full set would be good :)
Apr 07 08:18:27 <raster> can't help u
Apr 07 08:18:31 <SpeedEvil> I know.
Apr 07 08:18:32 <raster> i am not going to leak docs
Apr 07 08:18:40 <SpeedEvil> I wasn't being serious.
Apr 07 08:18:55 <raster> when it comes to legal stuff i am pretty straight down the line :)
Apr 07 08:19:18 <raster> but my poiunt is - in reality - u'll never see anythign beyond yuv accel
Apr 07 08:19:26 <raster> xrender will get partly accelerated
Apr 07 08:19:32 <raster> and likely thats all we will ever manage
Apr 07 08:19:32 * SpeedEvil wonders how much time it would cost to pull the glamo.
Apr 07 08:19:38 <raster> itsd all i really thought we'd end up with anyway
Apr 07 08:20:01 <SpeedEvil> Bitblit will of course help smoothness and nice scroling.
Apr 07 08:20:15 <CIA-41> openmoko: 03graeme * r4315 10/trunk/src/target/audio/ (34 files in 4 dirs): rename fic -> om in audio state files as well
Apr 07 08:21:01 <SpeedEvil> Do you happen to know if there are docs on the HH NDAd? Or do they just supply a object module?
Apr 07 08:21:07 <raster> SpeedEvil:  yes - tho for evas it doesnt know "Scrolling"
Apr 07 08:21:10 <raster> it only knows redraws
Apr 07 08:21:13 <SpeedEvil> Ow.
Apr 07 08:21:36 <raster> as such scroling is an artifact of moving N objects together at the same time in the same direction
Apr 07 08:21:48 <raster> i had originally planned on having motion vector detection at the object level
Apr 07 08:21:59 <raster> but frankly it was proving to be complex and ugly
Apr 07 08:22:27 <SpeedEvil> But objects can largely be moved without traffic over the bus?
Apr 07 08:22:36 <SpeedEvil> Or are they all going over the bus every repaint.
Apr 07 08:22:38 <raster> i gave up - as frankly the way hardware wass goi9ng for acceleration
Apr 07 08:22:45 <raster> its going via the 3d pipe line
Apr 07 08:22:55 <raster> and full redrwas are so amazingly fast no one bothers "blitting"
Apr 07 08:22:58 <raster> for sxcrolling
Apr 07 08:23:00 <raster> u just redraw
Apr 07 08:23:13 <SpeedEvil> Ah - right. I was taking redraw to be from the CPU across the bus.
Apr 07 08:23:20 <raster> right now with evas when it scrolls all pixels are going over the bus (for software rendering)
Apr 07 08:23:32 <raster> it completely re-draws the affected region(s)
Apr 07 08:23:36 <raster> and uploads
Apr 07 08:23:54 <raster> for exrender - even tho its a redraw - the objects should live in video ram
Apr 07 08:24:01 <raster> and thus a redoaw should be fast(er)
Apr 07 08:24:12 <raster> redraw
Apr 07 08:24:17 <SpeedEvil> And involve no bus traffic?
Apr 07 08:24:21 <SpeedEvil> well - little
Apr 07 08:24:23 <raster> as for docs - no docs for glamo anywhere
Apr 07 08:24:30 <raster> other than nda'd ones we have
Apr 07 08:24:36 <raster> well buys traffic for commands
Apr 07 08:24:39 <SpeedEvil> I was meaning the GPS - hammerhead.
Apr 07 08:24:43 <raster> and new objects (pixmaps) will need uploads
Apr 07 08:24:47 <raster> first time they are used
Apr 07 08:24:56 <SpeedEvil> I know that anotehr GPS is in GTA02
Apr 07 08:24:56 <raster> dunno about gps
Apr 07 08:24:57 <raster> :)
Apr 07 08:25:13 <SpeedEvil> Just idly wondering, as at one point I was hopeful of getting it working.
Apr 07 08:25:56 <Sup3rkiddo> hi all
Apr 07 08:26:07 <raster> ok
Apr 07 08:26:11 <ScaredyCat> miew
Apr 07 08:26:27 <raster> doing a test of fb vs x11 vs xrender vs software-x11 vs software-16-x11
Apr 07 08:26:39 <raster> Sup3rkiddo: yo
Apr 07 08:26:42 <raster> anyway
Apr 07 08:26:56 <raster> m y hope is that enough xrender ops can be acclerated to make it useful
Apr 07 08:27:02 <thos> SpeedEvil, how much do you know about gps on gta02?
Apr 07 08:27:04 <josch> raster, doing a test using expedite on the freerunner?
Apr 07 08:27:06 <raster> according to glamo docs a subset can be done
Apr 07 08:27:10 <raster> not as much as i'd like
Apr 07 08:27:13 <SpeedEvil> thos: I've been ignoring it.
Apr 07 08:27:16 <raster> but maybe just enough to grease by
Apr 07 08:27:19 <thos> SpeedEvil, ok
Apr 07 08:27:24 <raster> josch:  yes.
Apr 07 08:27:28 <josch> nice!
Apr 07 08:27:31 <SpeedEvil> thos: as the dropping of HH somewhat pissed me off.
Apr 07 08:27:33 <raster> xcrender is a useless test actually
Apr 07 08:27:50 <thos> SpeedEvil, I was going to see if I could find it on mine
Apr 07 08:27:58 <SpeedEvil> thos: find it?
Apr 07 08:28:00 <thos> SpeedEvil, and verify if it worked
Apr 07 08:28:03 <SpeedEvil> ah
Apr 07 08:28:10 <SpeedEvil> As I understad it, it's a NMEAchip.
Apr 07 08:28:16 <thos> yeah
Apr 07 08:28:21 <SpeedEvil> cu /dev/ttySAC1 
Apr 07 08:28:29 <SpeedEvil> or similar should get you talking to it.
Apr 07 08:28:39 <SpeedEvil> I have no idea how you'd turn it on.
Apr 07 08:28:47 <thos> ah ok
Apr 07 08:28:52 <SpeedEvil> find /sys -name "*gps*"
Apr 07 08:28:57 <thos> I got wireless working though
Apr 07 08:29:02 <SpeedEvil> :)
Apr 07 08:29:09 <SpeedEvil> thos: what's the SD speed?
Apr 07 08:29:15 <thos> SD?
Apr 07 08:29:21 <SpeedEvil> Secure Digital
Apr 07 08:29:25 <SpeedEvil> the teeny little card
Apr 07 08:29:26 <thos> dunno
Apr 07 08:29:30 <thos> yes :-P
Apr 07 08:29:46 <SpeedEvil> Just wondering - as I'm getting 3 meg a second on GTA01
Apr 07 08:29:58 <thos> SpeedEvil, do you want to try it?
Apr 07 08:30:12 <SpeedEvil> Try what?
Apr 07 08:30:18 <thos> the speed
Apr 07 08:30:23 <raster> SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW
Apr 07 08:30:30 <SpeedEvil> I have no GTA02.
Apr 07 08:30:46 * SpeedEvil checks under the pillow.
Apr 07 08:30:49 <SpeedEvil> Nope.
Apr 07 08:31:12 <CIA-41> openmoko: 03graeme * r4316 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/src/phone-kit/moko-sound.c: openmoko sound .state files changed location with openmoko-alsa-scenarios
Apr 07 08:31:19 <thos> raster, have you tried wifi much?
Apr 07 08:31:24 <raster> thos:  never.
Apr 07 08:32:28 * SpeedEvil goes back to investigating wifi USB key power consumption and where I can slice open my GTA01.
Apr 07 08:34:46 <raster> might finish fb test soon... grrr
Apr 07 08:35:44 * josch had some erros on two expedite benchmarks when doing them with engine x11_16
Apr 07 08:36:50 <raster> yeah
Apr 07 08:37:12 <thos> SpeedEvil, 88.96.30.68
Apr 07 08:37:26 <SpeedEvil> ah
Apr 07 08:39:19 <SpeedEvil> thos: nothing
Apr 07 08:39:23 <raster> got fb
Apr 07 08:39:25 <raster> not x11
Apr 07 08:39:28 <raster> now
Apr 07 08:39:29 <thos> SpeedEvil, I seem to have routing problems
Apr 07 08:39:32 <SpeedEvil> k
Apr 07 08:41:21 <edistar> raster: pls publish some results + interpretation and future development somewhere, e.g. ml or blog - it should interest many people:)
Apr 07 08:42:19 <josch> seconded
Apr 07 08:43:26 <raster> edistar: grrrr. that takes too much time
Apr 07 08:44:22 <CM> Dump the results in a pastebin so someone can format and blog it ;)
Apr 07 08:44:36 <josch> kk... then uploading all 5 reults in pastebin has to be enough
Apr 07 08:44:52 <edistar> communities just take some time;)
Apr 07 08:45:06 <CM> josch: ;)
Apr 07 08:45:25 <raster> 5?
Apr 07 08:45:32 <raster> no point doing xrender
Apr 07 08:45:45 <raster> its going to sock as its got zero accel at all
Apr 07 08:45:51 <raster> currently...
Apr 07 08:46:04 <josch> lol
Apr 07 08:46:18 <cedric> hey raster
Apr 07 08:46:23 <raster> cedric:  yo yo
Apr 07 08:46:28 <cedric> i have a fix for eet :)
Apr 07 08:46:42 <raster> josch:  and software-x11-16 will not finish due to incomplete software-16 engine stuff
Apr 07 08:46:46 <raster> cedric:  yay!
Apr 07 08:46:58 <cedric> it was obvious in fact :)
Apr 07 08:47:12 <josch> raster, you know about the errors?
Apr 07 08:47:24 <raster> yes
Apr 07 08:47:28 <raster> the ARGB tests
Apr 07 08:47:33 <raster> known about them a long time
Apr 07 08:47:36 <raster> i dont inted to fix it
Apr 07 08:47:36 <josch> exactly
Apr 07 08:47:47 <raster> intend
Apr 07 08:48:04 <josch> would it be sufficent to have a cli switch to skip these tests?
Apr 07 08:48:13 <raster> cedric:  often the interesting bugs turn out to be :)
Apr 07 08:48:20 <raster> josch: u can skip in the gui
Apr 07 08:48:29 <raster> but i dont see a point of doing a skip
Apr 07 08:48:32 <raster> the engine does fail
Apr 07 08:48:43 <raster> the engine has other rendering bugs elsewhere too
Apr 07 08:48:46 <josch> raster, last time i did the x11_16 benchmarks i did exactly that but it was a rather lenghy process ^^
Apr 07 08:48:57 <raster> its not an enigne i would say that "passes"
Apr 07 08:49:00 <raster> it is faster
Apr 07 08:54:52 <raster> josch: SpeedEvil edistar .... http://www.rasterman.com/files/gta02-evas-comparison-fb-vs-x11.pdf
Apr 07 08:55:27 <josch> expected results i would say...
Apr 07 08:55:34 <edistar> thanks
Apr 07 08:56:14 <raster> and of course - the simpler the drawing - the greater the extra copy costs
Apr 07 08:56:19 <raster> the more complex - the less it costs
Apr 07 08:56:35 <raster> so rect solid few is evas just doing solid color fills in software
Apr 07 08:56:39 <raster> no read/modify write
Apr 07 08:56:46 <raster> just blasting writes as fast as possible
Apr 07 08:56:58 <raster> and it even does zero over-draw thanks to pre-clipping
Apr 07 08:57:09 <raster> so basically in 4effect evas fills an update buffer
Apr 07 08:57:20 <raster> THEN it convertts to 16bpp THEN copies 16bpp to screen in x11
Apr 07 08:57:29 <raster> it fills buffer then converts AND copies in the fb engine
Apr 07 08:57:38 <raster> so u skip a whole copy - thus an almost double speedup
Apr 07 08:57:46 <raster> as the redraw is so simple
Apr 07 08:58:22 <josch> nice to know
Apr 07 08:58:25 <josch> very educational
Apr 07 08:58:30 <raster> once u get more complex
Apr 07 08:58:33 <raster> with blending, scaling etc.
Apr 07 08:58:42 <raster> the cost of the draw - as a percentage of the cycle goes up
Apr 07 08:58:49 <raster> and thus the extra copy cost decreases a lot - relatively
Apr 07 08:59:13 <raster> yes - u get more speed in the fb
Apr 07 08:59:16 <raster> but u pay a price
Apr 07 08:59:21 <raster> 1 app only
Apr 07 08:59:32 <raster> no existing x apps
Apr 07 08:59:36 <raster> otyher than that its ok
Apr 07 08:59:46 <josch> thanks raster ! :-D
Apr 07 08:59:55 <josch> i learned a lot!
Apr 07 09:02:39 <raster> :)
Apr 07 09:02:48 <raster> personally i'd pay the price for the x11 advantages
Apr 07 09:02:53 <raster> ie multiple processes
Apr 07 09:02:55 <raster> existing x apps
Apr 07 09:02:57 <raster> other toolkits
Apr 07 09:02:58 <raster> etc.
Apr 07 09:03:13 <raster> as any "interesting" drawing will be more than simple single-color fills
Apr 07 09:03:14 <raster> :)
Apr 07 09:07:43 <ScaredyCat> what are those numbers in raster?
Apr 07 09:08:03 <raster> expedite fps numbers per test
Apr 07 09:08:47 <ScaredyCat> ok... just checking... since that kinda changes the result :)
Apr 07 09:09:06 <josch> ScaredyCat, what did you think it would be?
Apr 07 09:09:20 <ScaredyCat> I didn't know so I asked...
Apr 07 09:09:26 <raster> the higher - the better
Apr 07 09:09:29 <raster> proportionally
Apr 07 09:09:30 <raster> :)
Apr 07 09:09:55 <ScaredyCat> it could have been 1000's of a second or anything... redraws a day ... slices of cheese eaten
Apr 07 09:10:15 <josch> or lolcats per day
Apr 07 09:10:59 <ScaredyCat> still, it doesn;t look good for x...
Apr 07 09:11:18 <josch> ScaredyCat, you heard the disadvantage of fb
Apr 07 09:11:25 <raster> hahahaha
Apr 07 09:11:36 <raster> ScaredyCat:  as such its pretty good for x
Apr 07 09:11:37 <raster> :)
Apr 07 09:11:40 <ScaredyCat> I don't really want fb
Apr 07 09:11:56 <josch> this is also not a real reallife benchmark as normal apps wont to simple solid rects in most cases
Apr 07 09:12:04 <raster> given the extra copy overhead the results are entirely proportional to that overhead - and not an nounce more
Apr 07 09:12:27 <raster> so x ITSELF is no overhead
Apr 07 09:12:46 <raster> the fact that x itself isont converting from 32bpp TO 16bpp AS it copies to the screen is the problem
Apr 07 09:13:01 <raster> as the fb enigne can take that shortcut as its all internal to evas
Apr 07 09:13:45 <ScaredyCat> well, yes, it's 44% slower... which is a lot
Apr 07 09:13:56 <josch> not really
Apr 07 09:14:02 <josch> only the avaerage ist 44%
Apr 07 09:14:33 <josch> in reallife you wont have an application that uses all the benchmarked feature this way
Apr 07 09:15:22 <josch> just look at the "Rect Solid Few" test which is 96% faster - did you ever see an app with solid rects??
Apr 07 09:15:39 <ScaredyCat> well, it's a benchmark.
Apr 07 09:15:52 <raster> yup
Apr 07 09:15:58 <ScaredyCat> of course normal aps don't do that.
Apr 07 09:16:00 <raster> its just a benchmark
Apr 07 09:16:02 <ScaredyCat> apps
Apr 07 09:16:16 <raster> u need to basically look at specific tests that map to your ui's usage
Apr 07 09:16:21 <ScaredyCat> yes..
Apr 07 09:16:32 <ScaredyCat> but you didn;t do that... :)
Apr 07 09:16:39 <edistar> why not have a benchmark that simulates rl-apps?
Apr 07 09:16:42 <ScaredyCat> the benchmark is what we get to see
Apr 07 09:16:56 * SpeedEvil passes edistar an empty editor.
Apr 07 09:17:12 <ScaredyCat> yu'd have to write them...  and you know what raster's code is like... :P
Apr 07 09:17:12 <raster> edistar: because every benchmark takes time to write
Apr 07 09:17:22 <raster> expedite is meant to isolate specific drawign paths
Apr 07 09:17:29 <josch> and because every app is different
Apr 07 09:17:30 <raster> so i know if that path is wrong or right, slow or fast
Apr 07 09:18:19 <josch> as me and emdete did it one would have to try different ways to do things on their own - not depending too much on such benchmarks
Apr 07 09:18:36 <ScaredyCat> yes, bu you're not going to do it for specific apps all the time, you average it out to make the decision
Apr 07 09:19:25 <josch> bottomline: if you do an app which is the only one running then use fb engine - if not use x11...
Apr 07 09:21:05 <raster> josch:  depends what other infra u want :)
Apr 07 09:21:18 <raster> i am not sure of the tslib support is all kosher
Apr 07 09:21:21 <raster> never checked
Apr 07 09:21:27 <josch> ah this...
Apr 07 09:21:29 <josch> dont know either
Apr 07 09:21:46 <josch> but i'm going to try this out sometime
Apr 07 09:26:05 <CIA-41> openmoko: 03graeme * r4317 10/trunk/src/target/audio/ (om-gta01/asound.state om-gta02/asound.state): Only keep named scenarios as states to avoid confusions
Apr 07 09:26:09 <SpeedEvil> raster: http://forum.eeeuser.com/viewtopic.php?id=22284
Apr 07 09:27:03 <SpeedEvil> HDSPA eepc mod
Apr 07 09:28:54 <josch> hehe - modding the eee seems to be fun these days
Apr 07 09:29:04 <SpeedEvil> yes
Apr 07 09:30:14 <cb22> in 6 hours mine will arrive :)
Apr 07 09:31:00 <cb22> 4g surf - you can change the ram, you just need to take the whole case off
Apr 07 09:31:03 <ScaredyCat> ~lart cross posters
Apr 07 09:31:03 * apt squeezes cross posters till cross posters turns blue like papa smurf
Apr 07 09:31:20 <CM> Hehe
Apr 07 09:31:20 <cb22> plus, i'm going to have an extra usb port (that was the cam) for my bluetooth :)
Apr 07 09:31:29 <SpeedEvil> cbrake_away: no need
Apr 07 09:31:44 <SpeedEvil> cb22: you can solder to the expansion bay USB ports
Apr 07 09:32:14 <cb22> ah right, the mini pci-x ones?
Apr 07 09:32:24 <SpeedEvil> yes
Apr 07 09:33:09 <josch> the best mod i ever saw: http://beta.ivancover.com/wiki/index.php/Eee_PC_Internal_Upgrades
Apr 07 09:34:12 <cb22> yeah, that guys eee is pimp
Apr 07 09:35:41 <josch> add a touchscreen and gsm and there you have your free phone ^^
Apr 07 09:36:40 <SpeedEvil> GSM is easy
Apr 07 09:37:08 <josch> any recommendation?
Apr 07 09:37:15 <SpeedEvil> modules on ebay
Apr 07 09:37:20 <SpeedEvil> search gsm module
Apr 07 09:39:13 <ScaredyCat> !!!!!!!!!!
Apr 07 09:39:53 <josch> ??????????
Apr 07 09:40:05 * ScaredyCat sees a gsm mux installed
Apr 07 09:40:10 <ScaredyCat> oh ...lol
Apr 07 09:40:32 <ScaredyCat> sorry... just flashed the wrong image..
Apr 07 09:40:36 * ScaredyCat slaps self
Apr 07 09:47:06 <josch> SpeedEvil, you were right! there are gsm modules that can easily be added via rs232!
Apr 07 09:48:09 * SpeedEvil adds 'speedevil is always right' to the topic.
Apr 07 09:48:12 <SpeedEvil> :)
Apr 07 09:48:44 <emdete> ScaredyCat: you meant you installed the right image! :D
Apr 07 09:48:57 <ScaredyCat> heheheheh
Apr 07 09:49:00 <josch> ^^
Apr 07 09:51:44 * SpeedEvil adds some GPS info for GTA02 to wiki. Thanks thos.
Apr 07 09:52:57 <SpeedEvil> josch: GPS, HSDPA, bluetooth, 16GB USB stick, GSM
Apr 07 09:53:04 <cb22> looks like josch gets the free tshirt
Apr 07 09:53:35 <josch> cb22, well /if/ michael shiloh was serious about it ^^
Apr 07 09:54:09 <cb22> hey, josch you get this cool free tshirt! just pay the $99.99 shipping, and we'll send it right to you :)
Apr 07 09:54:30 <josch> hahaha
Apr 07 09:54:38 <ScaredyCat> Surely Dell aren't sending it ? :P
Apr 07 09:55:04 <josch> SpeedEvil, why gsm modem if you already have hspda modem?
Apr 07 09:55:13 <SpeedEvil> Why not!
Apr 07 09:55:14 <CIA-41> openmoko: 03chris * r4318 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-finger-scroll.c): 
Apr 07 09:55:14 <CIA-41> openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-finger-scroll.c
Apr 07 09:55:14 <CIA-41> openmoko: (moko_finger_scroll_button_press_cb),
Apr 07 09:55:14 <CIA-41> openmoko: (moko_finger_scroll_motion_notify_cb),
Apr 07 09:55:14 <CIA-41> openmoko: (moko_finger_scroll_button_release_cb):
Apr 07 09:55:16 <CIA-41> openmoko: Don't bother checking the last event type when detecting infinite
Apr 07 09:55:20 <CIA-41> openmoko: loops, it just causes problems with double-clicking
Apr 07 09:55:37 <josch> SpeedEvil, cant you do gsm stuff with the hsdpa modem itself so you only need one sim card?
Apr 07 09:55:49 <SpeedEvil> no :(
Apr 07 09:55:54 <josch> ah kk
Apr 07 09:56:01 <SpeedEvil> At least not according to the network
Apr 07 09:56:55 <cb22> xkcd.com
Apr 07 09:57:04 <cb22> thats how the gps should be!
Apr 07 09:57:44 <josch> aye
Apr 07 09:57:53 <cb22> SpeedEvil: do you have a secret stash of gta02s that you are not telling us about? :)
Apr 07 09:58:00 <SpeedEvil> No.
Apr 07 09:58:05 <SpeedEvil> ssh
Apr 07 09:58:50 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03pikkive * r146 10/trunk/specifications/otapi/ (8 files): 
Apr 07 09:58:50 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: Added async annotation to each method.
Apr 07 09:58:50 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: Added proper direction to GetStatus method's parameters.
Apr 07 10:00:59 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03pikkive * r147 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/ (29 files in 5 dirs): 
Apr 07 10:00:59 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: Updated dbus xml files and corresponding code.
Apr 07 10:00:59 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: Added more tests to network interface.
Apr 07 10:00:59 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: Implemented getstatus method and status signal.
Apr 07 10:00:59 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: Added network status to modem struct.
Apr 07 10:03:45 <cb22> oooh, shiny gsmd2
Apr 07 10:04:55 <SpeedEvil> To be shiny, it needs polished.
Apr 07 10:05:00 <SpeedEvil> Sounds like it's more ore at teh moment.
Apr 07 10:06:04 <cb22> shiny ore! :)
Apr 07 10:08:18 <torpor> yo
Apr 07 10:08:19 <torpor> shine
Apr 07 10:08:26 <torpor> whats news folks? 
Apr 07 10:09:14 <cb22> *tumbleweed roles past*
Apr 07 10:09:23 <cb22> s/roles/rolls/
Apr 07 10:09:23 <apt> cb22 meant: *tumbleweed rolls past*
Apr 07 10:09:29 * Stephmw starts offering Candy around for more polish
Apr 07 10:10:01 * cb22 points to raster 
Apr 07 10:10:13 <cb22> you might as well buy him the candyshop :p
Apr 07 10:11:00 <torpor> yawn
Apr 07 10:11:03 * torpor goes back to sleep
Apr 07 10:11:39 <cb22> torpor: walk up in 2 years
Apr 07 10:12:13 <torpor> yup
Apr 07 10:15:23 <no_mind> how do one apply for mentorship with openmoko GS0C ?
Apr 07 10:20:26 <abraxa_> On Openmoko, you don't become a mentor. A mentor is becoming You! :)
Apr 07 10:21:13 <abraxa_> Less jokingly: you can apply through the GSoC web app but the chances of anyone becoming a mentor that mickey doesn't know are pretty much nil
Apr 07 10:23:05 <Sup3rkiddo> abraxa_, that was horrendously lame
Apr 07 10:23:17 <abraxa_> =(
Apr 07 10:23:21 * abraxa_ hides
Apr 07 10:23:38 <abraxa_> I know, I suck at memes.
Apr 07 10:26:32 <CM> :)
Apr 07 10:26:46 * raster points at cb22 
Apr 07 10:27:11 <abraxa_> Ahoy CM
Apr 07 10:27:20 <CM> Hey there
Apr 07 10:27:33 <nezza-_-> raster: is edje using a lot of float calculations at runtime?
Apr 07 10:27:46 <raster> nezza-_-: it will use some - it depends
Apr 07 10:27:49 <abraxa_> How come you talk to sparingly lately? Looks to me like the vicinity to your girlfriend is blurring your vision for the *really* important things in life! ;)
Apr 07 10:28:10 <nezza-_-> raster: mhh ok.. cause i want to use it on a plattform where float operations are really slow
Apr 07 10:28:32 <raster> nezza-_-: like the gta01/02?
Apr 07 10:28:35 <raster> :)
Apr 07 10:28:37 <CM> abraxa_: Yeah, that and 3 months working at a bank
Apr 07 10:28:49 <CM> Last day was on friday, so finally I can ssh again
Apr 07 10:28:56 <CM> Damn they had tight firewalls
Apr 07 10:28:59 <CM> :(
Apr 07 10:29:06 <raster> tight as a nun
Apr 07 10:29:07 <nezza-_-> raster: yes ;) but its an hardware which is designed by me ;)
Apr 07 10:29:10 <no_mind> mickey doesnt knows me :(
Apr 07 10:29:27 <abraxa_> raster: Great minds think alike...
Apr 07 10:29:27 <raster> nezza-_-: it runs fine on the gta01/02
Apr 07 10:29:31 <raster> as such it uses float
Apr 07 10:29:34 <nezza-_-> raster: yeah i know ;) 
Apr 07 10:29:36 <raster> but not "a lot"
Apr 07 10:29:40 <raster> but again - it all depends
Apr 07 10:29:44 <nezza-_-> raster: okay.. so i will give it a try
Apr 07 10:29:49 <nezza-_-> on what does it depend?
Apr 07 10:29:51 <raster> try it and see
Apr 07 10:29:57 <raster> it will dependa  lot on your usage patterns
Apr 07 10:30:02 <raster> well usage patterns
Apr 07 10:30:06 <abraxa_> CM: Ohhh, nice! 
Apr 07 10:30:07 <raster> designs artists do
Apr 07 10:30:07 <raster> etc.
Apr 07 10:30:11 <nezza-_-> okay.. 
Apr 07 10:30:13 <raster> there is no simple answer
Apr 07 10:30:22 <raster> it isnt using floats in tight rendering loops
Apr 07 10:30:26 <raster> its not so silly
Apr 07 10:30:33 <raster> but it does use them for layout calculations
Apr 07 10:30:34 <CM> abraxa_: Also, I've failed to build openmoko for two months straight now
Apr 07 10:30:42 <nezza-_-> ok, but thanks a lot! one more question.. are you actually developing rotation functions for edje?
Apr 07 10:30:45 <CM> abraxa_: Annoys me to no end.. I just can't get pth to build
Apr 07 10:31:02 <CM> I've restarted from absolute zero 5 times, tried everything.. :(
Apr 07 10:31:04 <raster> nezza-_-: nup. it's not edje's job - it would be for evas
Apr 07 10:31:15 <raster> and i'm not for evas - not for the time being
Apr 07 10:31:21 <raster> basically doign rotation and scaling
Apr 07 10:31:23 <nezza-_-> raster: yeah right.. didnt get it ;) 
Apr 07 10:31:25 <raster> and making it good quality is hard
Apr 07 10:31:26 <nezza-_-> okay
Apr 07 10:31:31 <raster> and i have just chosen to avoid it
Apr 07 10:31:33 <abraxa_> CM: Pastebin the error message when you can? =3
Apr 07 10:31:34 <raster> for now
Apr 07 10:31:55 <nezza-_-> yeah i know its hard to do it.. mhh i think i will implement screen rotation in hardware.. should be better
Apr 07 10:32:13 <nezza-_-> with an external graphic accelerator
Apr 07 10:32:58 <raster> oh - evas has whole canvas rotation
Apr 07 10:33:06 <raster> i thought u wanted individual object rotation
Apr 07 10:33:10 <nezza-_-> raster: really? :D
Apr 07 10:33:22 <CM> abraxa_: http://bugs.openembedded.net/show_bug.cgi?id=3988
Apr 07 10:33:34 <nezza-_-> raster: yeah this would be fine, too.. but if evas got something to rotate the complete canvas...
Apr 07 10:33:50 <CM> abraxa_: I think I need to cook up some patch that forces pth to use standard posix threads. 
Apr 07 10:33:54 <abraxa_> CM: acc.umu.se... you graduated from the same university as the Phun guy?
Apr 07 10:34:01 <raster> nezza-_-:  it does.
Apr 07 10:34:02 <CM> phun?
Apr 07 10:34:11 <nezza-_-> raster: i didn't find anything about this.. can you give me a hint?
Apr 07 10:34:13 <raster> nezza-_-: if u use ecore_evas - there are rotate calls
Apr 07 10:34:14 <CM> abraxa_: I might, acc = Academic Computer Club
Apr 07 10:34:18 <CM> In my home town :)
Apr 07 10:34:24 <nezza-_-> raster: okay
Apr 07 10:34:29 <raster> ecore_evas_rotation_set()
Apr 07 10:34:40 <abraxa_> CM: http://phun.cs.umu.se/wiki
Apr 07 10:34:50 <Sup3rkiddo> just a nooby question, will tuxonice patchsets work well with neo
Apr 07 10:34:55 <CM> Ah, yeah, that one
Apr 07 10:35:11 <CM> Compiz guy too, David Reveman was in my computer graphics class :)
Apr 07 10:35:11 <nezza-_-> raster: well thank you very much! this is great to know :)
Apr 07 10:35:14 <abraxa_> CM: I'm actually surprised that you're hitting that problem... ScaredyCat and others don't seem to have it
Apr 07 10:36:11 <CM> abraxa_: I know, no one else seem to have that build failure. And I've really started from scratch, just the makefile. And tried with and without binary locales, I tried the 2.0.7 version of pth.. Nothing works, always fails. Bugs me to no end
Apr 07 10:36:11 <ScaredyCat> that's because we know what we're doing ;)
Apr 07 10:36:16 <CM> :-P
Apr 07 10:36:21 <ScaredyCat> hehhe
Apr 07 10:36:43 <CM> I'm seriously thinking about trying a build in a debian vmware image or so just to get past that stinking package
Apr 07 10:37:45 <abraxa_> CM: Maybe the package isn't sandboxed properly and relies on some host libs?
Apr 07 10:37:48 <ScaredyCat> isn't there a vmware image floating about
Apr 07 10:37:57 <raster> nezza-_-:  :)
Apr 07 10:38:25 <CM> abraxa_: It must be something like that. And since I'm on 64-bit gentoo I'm sure I have some odd header file or so
Apr 07 10:38:34 <abraxa_> Sounds like it
Apr 07 10:39:19 <abraxa_> Maybe you can just stuff some 32-bit libc and junk into /usr/lib and hope it'll be found? ;)
Apr 07 10:39:19 * CM thinks oe is sandboxed like a sieve
Apr 07 10:39:51 <CM> I have a whole 32-bit multi-lib in /usr/lib32..
Apr 07 10:41:05 <abraxa_> Maybe it's looking in /usr/lib, though
Apr 07 10:41:12 * Stephmw stuffs ashish into his pipe and smokes him
Apr 07 10:41:16 <abraxa_> Hardcoded paths... I wouldn't be surprised :)
Apr 07 10:41:35 <CM> ScaredyCat: Hey, 19 votes already :)
Apr 07 10:41:36 <ScaredyCat> lol Stephmw
Apr 07 10:41:44 <ScaredyCat> :D
Apr 07 10:41:58 <ashish> hahaha you might require one H of this first
Apr 07 10:42:04 <ashish> :D
Apr 07 10:52:46 <SpeedEvil> votes?
Apr 07 10:53:35 <ScaredyCat> http://blog.automated.it 
Apr 07 10:53:43 <ScaredyCat> the 3g poll thing
Apr 07 10:55:23 <roh> ScaredyCat cool. nice
Apr 07 10:55:35 <ScaredyCat> :)
Apr 07 10:56:31 <SpeedEvil> It need thhe ability to select multiples.
Apr 07 10:56:38 <SpeedEvil> 1 and 4
Apr 07 10:57:05 <gi-el> vote twice
Apr 07 10:57:30 <ScaredyCat> well, I do have the option for that.. but then some smart ass would vote for all 4
Apr 07 10:57:33 <ScaredyCat> 5
Apr 07 11:09:05 <CM> 40 votes
Apr 07 11:09:07 <CM> :)
Apr 07 11:10:47 <ScaredyCat> there I was thinking I had all that traffic and it's CM refreshing !
Apr 07 11:11:25 <CM> Hehe.. I just happened to get the planet.openmoko feed now and had to see if any more people had clicked
Apr 07 11:16:28 <ScaredyCat> :)
Apr 07 11:17:30 * thos votes
Apr 07 11:23:54 <bentob0x> little problem with bitpim (I hope you don't mind me asking here): when I run the phone settings and choose a comm port, the bluetooth shows up in the 'Ports not available' section (available: false - it was not possible to open this port), any idea how I can make the bluetooth available to bitpim?
Apr 07 11:31:55 * SpeedEvil stabs ndiswrapper in a way.
Apr 07 11:33:36 <ScaredyCat> what sort of way?
Apr 07 11:33:53 <SpeedEvil> The 'Oh - it works for x86, we can ignore it now' way.
Apr 07 11:35:26 <ScaredyCat> :)
Apr 07 11:44:24 <cb22> i keep on seeing 400/500mhz for the s2442, can it run at 500 in the freerunner?
Apr 07 11:47:34 * cb22 spams the wiki with ScaredyCat's poll link
Apr 07 11:48:00 <cb22> ScaredyCat: i hope you have lots of bandwidth :p
Apr 07 11:57:38 <cb22> ScaredyCat: 10 votes O-o
Apr 07 11:57:41 <cb22> s/10/100/
Apr 07 11:57:41 <apt> cb22 meant: ScaredyCat: 100 votes O-o
Apr 07 12:12:56 <maroi> now its on the community list -> more votes :)
Apr 07 12:16:01 <cb22> couldnt resist spamming it everywhere :p
Apr 07 12:16:24 <thos> instructions for Moko theme now available
Apr 07 12:18:22 <rtm> Where are the Moko theme instructions?
Apr 07 12:22:38 * CM cheated past pth
Apr 07 12:22:43 <CM> ~blame arm
Apr 07 12:22:44 * apt blames arm (and Canada) for all the evil in the world
Apr 07 12:23:44 <ScaredyCat> pfft - bandwidth
Apr 07 12:26:47 <thos> rtm, planet openmoko?
Apr 07 12:30:49 <cb22> ~lart ScaredyCat's bandwidth
Apr 07 12:30:49 * apt squishes ScaredyCat's bandwidth like a bug
Apr 07 12:31:17 <ScaredyCat> seriosly, no chance...
Apr 07 12:31:29 <cb22> how much do you have? :)
Apr 07 12:31:31 <ScaredyCat> that server is a mirror for osm data...
Apr 07 12:31:43 <ScaredyCat> this isn't even going to be noticed
Apr 07 12:31:55 <cb22> aww :(
Apr 07 12:32:03 <cb22> i thought it was running on your dsl or sometrthing
Apr 07 12:32:14 <ScaredyCat> lol
Apr 07 12:32:52 <ScaredyCat> ~fish cb22
Apr 07 12:32:53 * apt slaps cb22 around with a large trout
Apr 07 12:33:18 <CM> ScaredyCat: And if you need some backup bw, I have an account on acc that has some to spare..
Apr 07 12:33:33 * ScaredyCat hugs CM
Apr 07 12:33:37 <CM> (Hosts ftp.gnome.org, ubuntu mirror and so on..
Apr 07 12:33:39 <CM> )
Apr 07 12:34:17 <SpeedEvil> OSM data is scary
Apr 07 12:34:57 <SpeedEvil> The uncompressed database is up to 90G now.
Apr 07 12:35:34 <cb22> ~O-o
Apr 07 12:35:35 <apt> hmm... o-o is Christoph Lameter see also http://lameter.com
Apr 07 12:35:43 <CM> Hehe
Apr 07 12:35:45 <cb22> thats like more bandwidth then the whole o fsouth africa
Apr 07 12:38:08 <SpeedEvil> Of course it is XML.
Apr 07 12:38:19 <SpeedEvil> So that's maybe 5 or 6 K of real data.
Apr 07 12:53:32 <zedstar> yeh keep XML out me pipes
Apr 07 12:54:33 <thos> zedstar, how was the hackathon?
Apr 07 12:55:21 <zedstar> thos: hmmm was full of web widgets as per usual :) but i spent some time with the trolltech guys so that was interesting
Apr 07 12:57:01 <thos> zedstar, what did they have to say?
Apr 07 12:57:20 <thos> "all your base are belong to us"?
Apr 07 12:57:33 <zedstar> thos ahahaha
Apr 07 12:57:54 <SpeedEvil> Where are the screen-lockers?
Apr 07 12:57:59 <SpeedEvil> I mean - what binary.
Apr 07 12:58:07 <zedstar> thos i was trying to get info on the nokia acquisition.......my impression is qt coming to symbian sometime soon
Apr 07 12:58:21 <zedstar> thos was hoping maybe gsm stack to maemo
Apr 07 12:58:36 <thos> heh
Apr 07 13:00:43 <zedstar> thos problem i find with these events in terms of development is lot of throw-away stuff nobody cares to work on some lower level infrastructure
Apr 07 13:00:58 <cb22> << stupid
Apr 07 13:01:03 <zedstar> thos cos they wanna win the competitions with something visible etc
Apr 07 13:11:08 <SpeedEvil> Yeah.
Apr 07 13:11:14 <SpeedEvil> 'I made a really cool API'
Apr 07 13:11:21 <SpeedEvil> 'but what does it do?'
Apr 07 13:13:15 <Cap_J_L_Picard> SpeedEvil: Does it allow me to send random stuff to your brain?
Apr 07 13:14:21 <SpeedEvil> No, that's some other channels I'm joined ot.
Apr 07 13:15:10 <cb22> say - will the *ahem* leaked *ahem* calypso docs allow me to rule the airways and make all phones within a 10 km radius explode?
Apr 07 13:15:30 <SpeedEvil> No.
Apr 07 13:15:34 <SpeedEvil> Only 8.
Apr 07 13:16:54 <nezza-_-> SpeedEvil: only 8? :( boring!
Apr 07 13:17:08 <cb22> yeah, i agree
Apr 07 13:21:27 <cb22> hmm, does anyone here know how to get mplayer to handle -ofps like ffmpeg's -r? in otherwords drop frames but keep sync?
Apr 07 13:21:49 <SpeedEvil> framedrop
Apr 07 13:21:53 <SpeedEvil> you press d 
Apr 07 13:22:06 <cb22> s/mplayer/mencoder/
Apr 07 13:22:07 <apt> cb22 meant: hmm, does anyone here know how to get mencoder to handle -ofps like ffmpeg's -r? in otherwords drop frames but keep sync?
Apr 07 13:22:11 <SpeedEvil> ah
Apr 07 13:22:27 <SpeedEvil> what do you mean 'but keep sync'?
Apr 07 13:22:41 <cb22> well, if you use -ofps, it just changes the frame rate, no regard for audio
Apr 07 13:22:47 <SpeedEvil> ah
Apr 07 13:23:10 <SpeedEvil> you may want to read the manpage
Apr 07 13:23:14 <SpeedEvil> search for decimate
Apr 07 13:23:56 <cb22> SpeedEvil: got it, thanks :)
Apr 07 13:26:19 <SpeedEvil> also telecine
Apr 07 13:27:22 <cb22> bwahaha, my youtube encoded videos look better then the iphones ones 
Apr 07 13:27:35 * SpeedEvil calls the apple-hit-squad.
Apr 07 13:28:02 * SpeedEvil watches them hold down cb22, and pour cider down him.
Apr 07 13:28:10 <CM> hehe
Apr 07 13:28:38 <cb22> hehe
Apr 07 13:28:42 <SpeedEvil> I was surprised at the quality last time I looked.
Apr 07 13:28:57 <cb22> seriously, i have an iphone, and right next to it i have my video playing
Apr 07 13:29:16 <cb22> SpeedEvil: h264 rocks :)
Apr 07 13:29:17 <SpeedEvil> what codec do they use?
Apr 07 13:29:31 <cb22> i'm not too sure, probably mpeg4 + aac
Apr 07 13:29:42 <SpeedEvil> Gotta use AAC.
Apr 07 13:29:50 <cb22> and they have 200kb/s bandwidth to play around with too
Apr 07 13:29:58 <SpeedEvil> It's the best codec.
Apr 07 13:30:50 <abraxa_> cb22: What about -framedrop? Not dropping enough?
Apr 07 13:30:58 <cb22> abraxa_: see correction :)
Apr 07 13:31:01 <SpeedEvil> no - that's CPU usage based
Apr 07 13:31:20 <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure if mencoder supports framestep
Apr 07 13:31:22 <abraxa_> oh, lol.
Apr 07 13:32:40 * cb22 sees what can be done with 60kb/s
Apr 07 13:32:53 <SpeedEvil> Maybe an idea to turn on blackframe detection too
Apr 07 13:40:39 <cb22> 1h20m till eee pc :D
Apr 07 13:41:07 * cb22 ups the audio quality
Apr 07 13:42:05 <ScaredyCat> 194 votes
Apr 07 13:42:24 <cb22> now we just need to get it on digg, slashdot and reddit
Apr 07 13:42:27 <cb22> at th esame time
Apr 07 13:42:31 <cb22> the same
Apr 07 13:45:48 <ScaredyCat> :)
Apr 07 13:46:03 <ScaredyCat> right, where's the twitter client!
Apr 07 13:46:40 <cb22> hmm, ahven isn't here :) anyone around with a neo, mplayer and a decent data plan?
Apr 07 13:47:39 * ScaredyCat has a neo, mplayer and a usb network connection :)
Apr 07 13:48:35 <cb22> ScaredyCat: why not :) mplayer -sws 0 -vf scale=320:240 -framedrop http://cb22.za.net/videos/crank.mkv please :)
Apr 07 13:50:14 <summatusmentis> we don't know anything else about GSoC student getting a neo(beyond the mailing list entry) do we?
Apr 07 13:50:34 <summatusmentis> s/student/students/
Apr 07 13:50:34 <apt> summatusmentis meant: we don't know anything else about GSoC students getting a neo(beyond the mailing list entry) do we?
Apr 07 13:52:23 <ScaredyCat> a bit jiggery cb22, but it works
Apr 07 13:52:50 <cb22> jiggery?
Apr 07 13:53:06 <ScaredyCat> stutters - framedropping possibly
Apr 07 13:53:50 <cb22> hmm, can you try playback http://cb22.za.net/videos/nocabac.mkv with the same options and see if it gives the same effect?
Apr 07 13:55:14 <ScaredyCat> no stuttering, but looks crappy
Apr 07 13:55:28 <ScaredyCat> very very blocky
Apr 07 13:56:19 <abraxa_> cb22: What's the clip's resolution?
Apr 07 13:56:26 <cb22> 160x128
Apr 07 13:56:31 <abraxa_> Oh ok.
Apr 07 13:56:41 <abraxa_> Hence the GPRS, I may assume
Apr 07 13:56:46 <cb22> yep
Apr 07 13:57:07 <cb22> ScaredyCat: try bump up -sws and see what happens
Apr 07 13:57:07 <abraxa_> summatusmentis: Nope, only the post on the ML
Apr 07 13:59:36 <saurabh1403> hello everyone
Apr 07 14:00:37 <summatusmentis> abraxa_: oh ok, thanks
Apr 07 14:02:01 <no_mind> hello saurabh1403 
Apr 07 14:02:24 <cb22> ScaredyCat: i assume that the neo's mplayer does use tremor?
Apr 07 14:09:02 <saurabh1403> hello
Apr 07 14:13:15 <summatusmentis> do we have any more status on the 850Mhz Neo FreeRunner?
Apr 07 14:13:45 <pyknite> hi there... I've read the last community update, but someone know in how many, approximatly, we will be able to buy this mervealous phone??
Apr 07 14:14:06 <summatusmentis> we don't really know
Apr 07 14:14:20 <summatusmentis> we're hoping soon, but we don't have anything solid
Apr 07 14:14:25 <pyknite> oki
Apr 07 14:14:51 <pyknite> but it's more probable in 1-2 month or in 6month?
Apr 07 14:14:51 <summatusmentis> check out the community mailing list, there was an update on there
Apr 07 14:15:07 <summatusmentis> I would say way sooner than 6 months, but that's purely a guess
Apr 07 14:15:09 <mjr> should be in pre-mass-manufacturing hopefully final testing now
Apr 07 14:15:54 <summatusmentis> there are supposed to be 3 PVT builds(testing builds) done before mass manufacture
Apr 07 14:16:00 <summatusmentis> they've done at least one of those 3
Apr 07 14:16:09 <cb22> omgponies :)
Apr 07 14:16:47 <summatusmentis> I don't know how long each one of those takes, nor do I know how long it takes to ramp up mass manufacture after the PVT builds
Apr 07 14:16:56 <summatusmentis> but hopefully very soon
Apr 07 14:17:32 <pyknite> ok thx for answers... i hope it will be possible to get one soon ;)
Apr 07 14:18:01 <pyknite> even a dev release
Apr 07 14:18:31 <summatusmentis> pyknite: yeah, when freerunner comes out, the software will still be beta
Apr 07 14:19:16 <pyknite> no problem for me.. it's for developping
Apr 07 14:19:43 * mjr 's ass guesses "next month", but it's done that before
Apr 07 14:19:46 <pyknite> and increase my level in embedded software
Apr 07 14:19:51 <mjr> o
Apr 07 14:20:31 <tc> Internally do Openmoko have target dates? We never seem to hear anything..
Apr 07 14:20:52 <cb22> tc: could be worse. think duke nukem forever
Apr 07 14:21:20 <tc> cb22: That's what I'm worried about! ;)
Apr 07 14:21:36 <summatusmentis> tc: I'm sure they do have target dates, I just don't know that they want to tell the community, because then it's a 'contract signed in blood', and things are up in the air
Apr 07 14:21:59 <summatusmentis> "There are three PVT builds scheduled
Apr 07 14:21:59 <summatusmentis> And the first has been completed. The completed handsets will be tested and
Apr 07 14:21:59 <summatusmentis> then we will tweak the process and build two more PVT  batches."
Apr 07 14:22:15 <summatusmentis> so there are target dates set, and one has been met
Apr 07 14:22:41 <pyknite> PVT is some like a pre-release?
Apr 07 14:22:47 <tc> They sound like milestones rather than dates to me
Apr 07 14:23:39 <summatusmentis> PVT is the pre-mass market builds
Apr 07 14:23:44 <pyknite> ok thx
Apr 07 14:23:56 <tc> Production Verification Tests - testing the production line and it's output I understand
Apr 07 14:23:58 <wurp2|gone> I'm more concerned about them not making a clear announcement when they decided to go with Illume instead of GTK
Apr 07 14:24:22 <summatusmentis> wurp2|gone: what do you mean?
Apr 07 14:24:28 <wurp2|gone> I mean, as a community we're out here building apps based on the latest confirmed framework info.  Major changes like that should have major announcements
Apr 07 14:24:41 <summatusmentis> wurp2: yes, I agree whole-heartedly
Apr 07 14:24:47 <summatusmentis> would they do that?
Apr 07 14:24:55 <summatusmentis> presumably someone would have told us
Apr 07 14:25:06 <tc> I understand why they really do not want to mention any dates, but we don't know if PVT is going to last 4 weeks or a year
Apr 07 14:25:30 <summatusmentis> tc: that is probably correct
Apr 07 14:25:30 <wurp2> I am pretty sure that the GUI platform going forward is Illume + something else I don't remember the acronym of :-)
Apr 07 14:25:33 <wurp2> EL something
Apr 07 14:25:36 <summatusmentis> EFL
Apr 07 14:25:40 <wurp2> thx
Apr 07 14:25:43 <summatusmentis> Enlightenment Foundation Libraries
Apr 07 14:25:45 <summatusmentis> iirc
Apr 07 14:25:47 <wurp2> O
Apr 07 14:25:51 <wurp2> That should have been easy to remember
Apr 07 14:25:54 <wurp2> for me
Apr 07 14:26:00 <summatusmentis> :)
Apr 07 14:26:04 <fredthecat> Was there an (unclear) announcement that it's going to be Illume rather than GTK?
Apr 07 14:26:12 <wurp2> not really
Apr 07 14:26:23 <summatusmentis> raster has been working w/ Illume
Apr 07 14:26:28 <summatusmentis> but I don't know if that means anything
Apr 07 14:26:32 <wurp2> but raster is working on it, and afaik all of the work on FR is using it
Apr 07 14:26:43 <wurp2> all of the new work
Apr 07 14:27:03 <summatusmentis> it also looked like a lot of the SoC projects entailed tying things into EFL
Apr 07 14:27:03 <wurp2> And there is a major initiative to get Qtopia working under X
Apr 07 14:27:12 <wurp2> But I have no idea what that means in the bigger picture
Apr 07 14:27:32 <fredthecat> Anyone going to the London http://www.ukuug.org/events/openmoko/ event this Wednesday?
Apr 07 14:27:40 <summatusmentis> also, how much of it is OpenMoko recognized?
Apr 07 14:27:50 <summatusmentis> like, is the Qtopia stuff sanctioned by OM?
Apr 07 14:28:09 <summatusmentis> fredthecat: if I lived in London, I would be :)
Apr 07 14:29:11 * mjr guestimates the qtopia thing to be mostly about leveraging existing qtopia stuff
Apr 07 14:29:22 <mjr> "look, we have lots of apps already"
Apr 07 14:29:27 <wurp2> Sure
Apr 07 14:29:34 <wurp2> And that seems like it could be a great idea
Apr 07 14:29:46 <summatusmentis> ok, that makes sense to me
Apr 07 14:29:50 <wurp2> But is that meant to be a long term thing, or is it a crutch?
Apr 07 14:29:55 <abraxa_> fredthecat: No, no announcement but if you look at the OM-sponsored projects (illume, enlazar, diversity) it's not hard to tell
Apr 07 14:30:04 * summatusmentis needs to figure out how to get qemu working
Apr 07 14:30:07 <wurp2> gtg, meeting
Apr 07 14:32:45 <cb22> hah, i think i've managed to get everything to mencoder, instead of ffmpeg + oggenc + mencoder + mkvmerge!
Apr 07 14:32:55 <SpeedEvil> yay!
Apr 07 14:33:20 <summatusmentis> do any of you use qemu for OM?
Apr 07 14:33:28 <SpeedEvil> Now tie it into a proxying service for youtube, and profit!
Apr 07 14:33:30 <summatusmentis> I can't get it to work, seemingly
Apr 07 14:33:33 <cb22> and single pass looks decent too :D
Apr 07 14:33:42 <cb22> heck, this might even be possible realtime now
Apr 07 14:36:14 <wurp2> summatusmentis: nope :-(
Apr 07 14:36:29 <summatusmentis> wurp2: ok, thanks
Apr 07 14:36:38 <zedstar> fredthecat im gonna go
Apr 07 14:37:04 <wurp2> qemu worked (although it was unusably slow) when I tried it before I got my device
Apr 07 14:37:16 <wurp2> But once I got the device, I quit using qemu altogether
Apr 07 14:37:24 <summatusmentis> I had it working once, but I can't get it to re-work
Apr 07 14:37:24 <zedstar> fredthecat and thos said he was
Apr 07 14:37:30 <summatusmentis> it built fine, but it won't run
Apr 07 14:41:23 <fredthecat> zedstar: that's three of us then anywau
Apr 07 14:42:23 <summatusmentis> http://pastebin.ca/975368 <- that the error I'm getting when I'm trying to run qemu
Apr 07 14:43:52 <zedstar> fredthecat ok cool im up for beer/food/chat whatever after as well
Apr 07 14:46:17 <summatusmentis> hi mickeyl 
Apr 07 14:49:20 <morricone> has anyone tried runnuning powertop on the neo?
Apr 07 14:49:44 <SpeedEvil> In many ways it's not really relevant yet
Apr 07 14:49:53 <SpeedEvil> as the idle mode sucks lots of power
Apr 07 14:50:43 <morricone> can this be tuned, or is this a problem of the SoC?
Apr 07 14:51:08 * SpeedEvil pokes cesarb.
Apr 07 14:51:12 <SpeedEvil> It's being worked on.
Apr 07 14:51:15 <SpeedEvil> Maybe.
Apr 07 14:52:02 <tc> Does anyone know if you can use the Neo to give a laptop internet access via the phone connection, via usb or with wifi?
Apr 07 14:52:37 <mwester> The problem, as I understand it, is not so much the SoC, but the peripherals which require certain clock speeds and thus prevent the SoC from going as slowly as one would like to save power.
Apr 07 14:52:51 <mwester> tc: yes.
Apr 07 14:53:30 <tc> mwester: thanks :) I thought it must do but I couldn't seem to find any info on the web
Apr 07 14:53:37 <SpeedEvil> mwester: much of that work has been done by cesarb.
Apr 07 14:53:42 <SpeedEvil> <Much remains though.
Apr 07 15:07:26 <abraxa_> thomasg_: Sitzstreik... lol
Apr 07 15:07:35 <summatusmentis> ScaredyCat: people are reporting that the "3g is essential" option on the poll won't let them register it
Apr 07 15:07:44 <summatusmentis> saying "please select a valid option"
Apr 07 15:07:55 <ScaredyCat> ?
Apr 07 15:08:06 <ScaredyCat> I'm seeing votes...
Apr 07 15:08:17 <summatusmentis> right, someone on the mailing list is saying they can't select that option
Apr 07 15:08:18 <ScaredyCat> javascript on?
Apr 07 15:08:32 <summatusmentis> I don't know, it's not me specifically
Apr 07 15:08:57 <ScaredyCat> mmm .. I haven't got that message yet
Apr 07 15:09:19 <thomasg_> checked it out works for me
Apr 07 15:09:32 <thomasg_> even if it normally wouldn't be my choise
Apr 07 15:10:02 <summatusmentis> ScaredyCat: I don't know, just reporting what I'm seeing on the community mailing list
Apr 07 15:14:01 <ScaredyCat> k, replied
Apr 07 15:18:11 <ScaredyCat> ~lart thomasg_
Apr 07 15:18:11 * apt turns thomasg_ into a lifesized tux doll
Apr 07 15:18:21 <ScaredyCat> :o
Apr 07 15:18:24 <ScaredyCat> schweet
Apr 07 15:19:19 <thomasg_> :)
Apr 07 15:19:36 <thomasg_> well, I can live with this decision, too - I just don't like the word "essential"
Apr 07 15:19:54 * ScaredyCat changes it to  'cheese'
Apr 07 15:20:15 <Basheri_> but it is essentiaö
Apr 07 15:20:22 <Basheri_> *l
Apr 07 15:20:40 <summatusmentis> well, I guess I was missing zlib.h
Apr 07 15:24:52 <thomasg_> ScaredyCat, still see no cheese :(
Apr 07 15:26:25 <ScaredyCat> that'll be the cache... it expires in 2020
Apr 07 15:26:27 <ScaredyCat> :P
Apr 07 15:27:30 <cb22> ScaredyCat: it's because...
Apr 07 15:27:33 <cb22> if you are on the poll page
Apr 07 15:27:37 <thomasg_> well, I guess the chesse will be ripe then
Apr 07 15:27:51 <cb22> and you select an option on the poll on the right hand column
Apr 07 15:27:55 <cb22> it wont work
Apr 07 15:28:05 <ScaredyCat> ahhh yes...
Apr 07 15:28:09 * ScaredyCat slaps people
Apr 07 15:29:21 <thomasg_> stop slapping, give them cheese.
Apr 07 15:32:18 <ScaredyCat> fixed that then cdbot2
Apr 07 15:32:25 <ScaredyCat> erm cb22
Apr 07 15:32:48 <mickeyl> hi suma 
Apr 07 15:32:51 <summatusmentis> hi mickeyl
Apr 07 15:32:55 <mickeyl> thomasg_: can you make a video w/ links -g?
Apr 07 15:33:07 <josch> thomasg_, kannst wiederkommen - der flowerbot ist übern jordan...
Apr 07 15:33:11 <thomasg_> :)
Apr 07 15:33:17 <fgau> lol
Apr 07 15:33:45 <summatusmentis> mickeyl: may I pm you?
Apr 07 15:34:00 <mickeyl> only if it's something private, please. otherwise, i prefer public comm.
Apr 07 15:34:37 <summatusmentis> well, I was wondering if you could comment on which types of applications OM was more likely to accept
Apr 07 15:34:42 <mickeyl> ah
Apr 07 15:34:45 <summatusmentis> I know it's a long shot, but I thought I'd ask
Apr 07 15:34:54 <mickeyl> well, i guess the main thing for this year is middleware
Apr 07 15:35:01 <mickeyl> which means - libraries and services
Apr 07 15:35:33 <summatusmentis> ok. Is there a way for annoying students like myself to gauge where our applications would be ranked?
Apr 07 15:36:10 <mickeyl> i never seen the student interface
Apr 07 15:36:16 * SpeedEvil passes summatusmentis a magic-8-ball.
Apr 07 15:36:19 <mickeyl> i was supposing it would be public
Apr 07 15:36:28 <mickeyl> e.g. you would see the points
Apr 07 15:36:46 <mickeyl> but i don't know -- i only seen the mentor interface
Apr 07 15:36:51 <summatusmentis> I don't believe that's how it works, but this is my first year, could be mistaken
Apr 07 15:37:30 * mickeyl falls in love with cython
Apr 07 15:37:36 <mickeyl> this _is_ cool
Apr 07 15:37:53 <ScaredyCat> "I have given up on trying to get people to file bugs at the right bugtracker and have adopted the rather cynical filosophy of "If you don't care enough to file a bug, I don't care enough to look into your supposed problem"."
Apr 07 15:38:09 <abraxa_> mickeyl: We only see our own submitted apps along with the notice "available for review" - the point distribution is private
Apr 07 15:38:15 <ScaredyCat> well, actually, we stop filing bugs because they just sit there and don;t get fixed
Apr 07 15:38:22 <mickeyl> abraxa_: ah, thanks for clarifying
Apr 07 15:39:01 <mickeyl> ScaredyCat: heh, where's that from?
Apr 07 15:39:14 <ScaredyCat> planet
Apr 07 15:39:16 <summatusmentis> mickeyl: I understand if OM doesn't want to comment on where people are ranked before the proposals get chosen, I just thought I'd ask
Apr 07 15:39:48 <mxpxpod> thos: nice work on the moko theme
Apr 07 15:40:03 <thos> hey mxpxpod 
Apr 07 15:40:04 <thos> thanks
Apr 07 15:40:14 <mickeyl> summatusmentis: i'm actually a bit surprised the ranking process is not public... probably because they don't want a flood of discussion to arise
Apr 07 15:40:34 <summatusmentis> mickeyl: also presumably so there are no hard feelings, etc.
Apr 07 15:40:44 <summatusmentis> I can see why it would be that way
Apr 07 15:40:56 <mickeyl> yeah
Apr 07 16:00:55 <CIA-41> openmoko: 03thomas * r4319 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/test-notes.c): 
Apr 07 16:00:55 <CIA-41> openmoko: 2008-04-07 Thomas Wood <thomas@openedhand.com>
Apr 07 16:00:55 <CIA-41> openmoko:  * src/test-notes.c: (main): Add support for recipient and "Sent" flag
Apr 07 16:02:04 <CIA-41> openmoko: 03thomas * r4320 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-save-number.c src/sms-notes.c): 
Apr 07 16:02:04 <CIA-41> openmoko: 2008-04-07 Thomas Wood <thomas@openedhand.com>
Apr 07 16:02:04 <CIA-41> openmoko:  * src/moko-save-number.c: (moko_save_number): Check number is not blank,
Apr 07 16:02:04 <CIA-41> openmoko:  and warn user if it is.
Apr 07 16:02:05 <CIA-41> openmoko:  * src/sms-notes.c: (save_contact_clicked_cb): Add recipient number if
Apr 07 16:02:07 <CIA-41> openmoko:  SMS was "Sent".
Apr 07 16:08:16 <summatusmentis> hi Sup3rkiddo
Apr 07 16:08:46 <Sup3rkiddo> summatusmentis, y0
Apr 07 16:08:57 <summatusmentis> how goes it?
Apr 07 16:09:23 <cb22> looks like 141 people need 3g so far :)
Apr 07 16:09:34 <Qwell> 142
Apr 07 16:09:59 <Sup3rkiddo> summatusmentis, it goes well :P
Apr 07 16:10:06 <summatusmentis> Sup3rkiddo: that's good :)
Apr 07 16:10:06 <Sup3rkiddo> 144
Apr 07 16:10:26 <Sup3rkiddo> Sup3rkiddo == double in size
Apr 07 16:10:34 <Sup3rkiddo> summatusmentis, got any comments on the app?
Apr 07 16:10:44 <summatusmentis> Sup3rkiddo: none beyond the one I got originally
Apr 07 16:10:59 <Sup3rkiddo> summatusmentis, me too 
Apr 07 16:11:34 <summatusmentis> mickeyl said we shouldn't really expect anything until after ranking starts
Apr 07 16:11:53 <spydon> Where can you sign that you want 3g? :P
Apr 07 16:12:00 <summatusmentis> check out the topic
Apr 07 16:12:14 <spydon> Niiice
Apr 07 16:13:09 <cb22> someone submit it to slashdot digg and reddit please, i wanna see ScaredyCat's server BURN :p
Apr 07 16:14:46 <summatusmentis> cb22: that may be worth doing, considering I'm sure a ton of that crowd will be buying when the device is available
Apr 07 16:15:17 <spydon> "New version is the FreeRunner (with WiFi)" - Have they started taking orders?
Apr 07 16:16:35 <Qwell> what happened to the "Maybe April"?
Apr 07 16:17:06 <cb22> its still apris isnt it?
Apr 07 16:17:37 <abraxa_> I'd like to ask you to *not* publish the URL on said sites.
Apr 07 16:17:38 <cb22> s/ris/ril/
Apr 07 16:17:58 <ScaredyCat> cb22: the buttons at the bottom of the post... 
Apr 07 16:17:58 <abraxa_> It would generate publicity that Openmoko can *not* deal with in an appropriate manner right now.
Apr 07 16:18:02 <cb22> abraxa_: dont you want the hordes of mindless apple fanboys voting?
Apr 07 16:18:07 <ScaredyCat> click those if you want it submitted
Apr 07 16:18:13 <cb22> (at least on digg)
Apr 07 16:18:45 <abraxa_> cb22: I want GTA02 to be a success. Not have tons of people find out about Openmoko through the poll, just to realize that Openmoko sucks right now.
Apr 07 16:18:54 <ScaredyCat> aye
Apr 07 16:19:03 <ScaredyCat> pokymoko
Apr 07 16:22:36 <unknown_lamer> abraxa_: I fail to see how no 3G = suck
Apr 07 16:22:42 <unknown_lamer> I can't even get 3G!
Apr 07 16:22:58 <abraxa_> unknown_lamer: Don't twist my words, please
Apr 07 16:23:01 <unknown_lamer> the lack of edge is mildly annoying, but otherwise the gta02 looks like a damn nice phone
Apr 07 16:23:06 <ScaredyCat> unknown_lamer: you suck 
Apr 07 16:23:08 <ScaredyCat> ;)
Apr 07 16:23:23 <abraxa_> I'm talking about Openmoko, aka the software stack. Not the phone hardware.
Apr 07 16:23:34 <unknown_lamer> qtopia works fairly well?
Apr 07 16:23:59 <abraxa_> Qtopia is not Openmoko ;)
Apr 07 16:24:15 <unknown_lamer> It runs on the hardware and if someone wants a working phone they have a working software stack
Apr 07 16:32:40 <zedstar_> http://www.opencellid.org/users/staticShow/api
Apr 07 16:32:57 <zedstar_> get mapping !
Apr 07 16:34:24 <bmidgley> zedstar_ they need a ton of measurements to find out approximately where towers are, eh?
Apr 07 16:35:10 <bmidgley> zedstar_ I'm pretty sure the planet has more than 11 cell towers
Apr 07 16:35:38 <bmidgley> oh, 200 when you zoom in
Apr 07 16:35:51 <zedstar_> bmidgley well it gonna take some effort
Apr 07 16:36:15 <bmidgley> zedstar_ why not submit signal strength too
Apr 07 16:36:22 <bmidgley> it would be rough but better than no info
Apr 07 16:36:24 <zedstar_> but at we need to do it to stop those companies charging us for this stuff
Apr 07 16:36:33 <wurp2> A little program that logs cell strengths along with gps positions in the background on the neo should be enough to map all of the cell towers near the places you go, I'd think
Apr 07 16:36:54 <bmidgley> wurp2 yeah, I want something like that for wifi
Apr 07 16:37:00 <zedstar_> some guy on the discussion list claims he did all of amsterdam pretty quckly with 5 phones on his bike
Apr 07 16:37:03 <wurp2> I've been gathering the info I'd need to do that lately
Apr 07 16:37:35 <wurp2> (very slowly gathering said info; I don't have much time to do side projects lately)
Apr 07 16:37:44 <zedstar_> he did different operators simultaneously
Apr 07 16:38:04 <wurp2> great idea if you want to go on trips explicitly to buidl cell maps
Apr 07 16:38:13 <zedstar_> apple has invested in Skyhook which do something similar but with wifi
Apr 07 16:38:19 <wurp2> I want to build something that will just gather info while I do my normal daily travel
Apr 07 16:38:26 <zedstar_> their SDK is not open source tho
Apr 07 16:38:33 <wurp2> bastards
Apr 07 16:38:36 <zedstar_> yeh
Apr 07 16:38:52 <ScaredyCat> zedstar_ : all sources are avaiable, what about the db ?
Apr 07 16:38:59 <zedstar_> people are hoarding the info for profit so needs some community effort
Apr 07 16:39:17 <zedstar_> scaredycat they guys says it will be available for download
Apr 07 16:39:37 <zedstar_> he has pubically stated a lot on an industry list
Apr 07 16:39:42 <zedstar_> so gonna be hard to back down
Apr 07 16:39:50 <ScaredyCat> well, he needs to do it now then...
Apr 07 16:39:54 <zedstar_> yeh
Apr 07 16:39:58 <ScaredyCat> nightly dumps or something
Apr 07 16:40:01 <zedstar_> yep
Apr 07 16:40:14 <ScaredyCat> then he'll get more support...
Apr 07 16:40:17 <zedstar_> so one agreed already to submit 10,000 cells from barcelona
Apr 07 16:40:25 <zedstar_> so people seem to be keen
Apr 07 16:41:59 <ScaredyCat> I'd be very keen, if I knew they weren't going to just run off wiht the db
Apr 07 16:42:26 <zedstar_> yeh that is the worry but if their are nightly downloads etc then shud be fine
Apr 07 16:42:44 <zedstar_> skyhook employ drivers to drive past your house!
Apr 07 16:42:52 <zedstar_> and log the wifi coords
Apr 07 16:43:02 <zedstar_> or so they claim!
Apr 07 16:43:12 <zedstar_> i think they stole a lot from wigle
Apr 07 16:43:17 <ScaredyCat> so just change the mac address all the time :)
Apr 07 16:43:21 <zedstar_> lol
Apr 07 16:45:09 <zedstar_> i will post a response saying we are interested too just to keep the pressure on :)
Apr 07 16:45:16 <thomasg_> in what package is gsmd?
Apr 07 16:45:45 <zedstar_> we have got the right hardware at least to contribute
Apr 07 16:46:08 <pH5> thomasg_: "libgsmd"
Apr 07 16:46:22 <thomasg_> pH5, thanks
Apr 07 16:46:59 <pH5> ouf, /me reduces the speaker volume a bit
Apr 07 16:48:40 <zedstar_> uk has 2785 cells logged
Apr 07 16:54:12 <DPThought> my snapshot image is some weeks old. But opkg upgrade says 'nothing to be done' How come?
Apr 07 16:56:56 <DPThought> ooops, be dns seems to be broken. Have not seen the errors.
Apr 07 16:56:58 <wurp2> DPThought: Did you 'opkg update" first?
Apr 07 16:57:09 <wurp2> That will cause a problem too ;-)
Apr 07 16:59:50 <DPThought> Great. opkg update segfaults. ipkg update works.
Apr 07 17:00:49 <wurp2> opkg has been going through a lot of changes lately
Apr 07 17:01:13 <wurp2> You may have to ipkg install opkg before you can opkgs update :-)
Apr 07 17:01:26 <wurp2> s/opkgs/opkg/
Apr 07 17:01:27 <apt> wurp2 meant: You may have to ipkg install opkg before you can opkg update :-)
Apr 07 17:02:33 <DPThought> sure :)  I already used opkg some times. I assume they work good together.
Apr 07 17:02:43 <wurp2> Mostly
Apr 07 17:02:49 <zedstar__> anyone who lives in Seattle, WA area here ares ome wifi coords  http://www.placelab.org/database/testdb.txt
Apr 07 17:04:02 <DPThought> i had to put a # before the /etc/ipkg/snapshot-neo1973-feed.conf line because it caused 404. Maybe that is the reason why no packags are to be upgraded
Apr 07 17:04:28 <DPThought> the only package upgraded right now was navit, and this is from a different repository
Apr 07 17:04:43 <zedstar__> be cool if we could setup a wifi coords mapping db if we had a trusted place to run it
Apr 07 17:04:59 <DPThought> Or are the package repos not re built as often as snapsht images?
Apr 07 17:07:32 <wurp2> I have no idea, sorry
Apr 07 17:08:12 <DPThought> zedstar__: many wlan scanners can do that. So there must be some db's somewhere allready. Kismet for example
Apr 07 17:08:19 <zedstar__> be actually easy to build a logger using skyhooks DB...even if they dont give us direct accesss.....just log the position whenever skyhook gives u one
Apr 07 17:09:20 <zedstar__> dpthought yeh wigle seems about the most comphrensive....ive uploaded to their from kismet logs
Apr 07 17:10:53 <DPThought> they all don't log the position of the hotspot itself but only where it was measured. The same is true for that opencellid thing. But better than nothing. :)
Apr 07 17:11:21 <zedstar__> dpthought right.....u not gonna target misiles using it
Apr 07 17:11:51 <DPThought> zedstar__: wlan seeking misiles...
Apr 07 17:11:54 <zedstar__> dpthought what skyhook do is provide a nice C api so u can build apps on it rather than tacky web interface
Apr 07 17:12:27 <zedstar__> an open C based API...something efficient
Apr 07 17:12:29 <zedstar__> be nice
Apr 07 17:13:18 <DPThought> sounds nice.
Apr 07 17:14:30 <zedstar__> skyhook is used in the ipod touch to do location lookup
Apr 07 17:14:33 <unknown_lamer> hooray I managed to free up enough diskspace to finally build a cross compiler toolchain
Apr 07 17:14:44 * unknown_lamer needs a pair of 500G drives grrr
Apr 07 17:16:37 <abraxa_> ScaredyCat: Do you think the expression "I bid you a nice day" sounds weird in a business mail?
Apr 07 17:16:48 <ScaredyCat> yes
Apr 07 17:16:57 <ScaredyCat> but
Apr 07 17:17:04 <ScaredyCat> it does depend who sent it
Apr 07 17:17:09 <abraxa_> I will be :)
Apr 07 17:17:13 <abraxa_> Hence my question
Apr 07 17:17:19 <ScaredyCat> or who to...
Apr 07 17:17:27 <abraxa_> Some CEO
Apr 07 17:17:37 <ScaredyCat> is this a first contact?
Apr 07 17:17:52 <ScaredyCat> are you using a name.../
Apr 07 17:17:54 <ScaredyCat> ie
Apr 07 17:18:03 <ScaredyCat> dear Mr Jones
Apr 07 17:18:07 <abraxa_> I'm just wondering how I can express this in a sophisticated, yet respectful manner
Apr 07 17:18:25 <abraxa_> "Have a nice day" sounds too buddy-like :)
Apr 07 17:18:33 * cb22 has an EEE :D:D:D:D
Apr 07 17:18:40 <abraxa_> Congrats, cb22!
Apr 07 17:18:55 <cb22> now i need a freerunner, as its twin
Apr 07 17:19:25 <ScaredyCat> Start with Dear <whatever>,  end with Yours sincerely, 
Apr 07 17:19:39 <wurp2> abraxa_: How about just "Regards,"?
Apr 07 17:20:00 <zedstar__> "Love,"
Apr 07 17:20:03 <abraxa_> lol
Apr 07 17:20:07 <ScaredyCat> hugs n kisses
Apr 07 17:20:10 <zedstar__> lol
Apr 07 17:20:13 <abraxa_> wurp2: Yeah, I guess I'll go for that
Apr 07 17:20:15 <abraxa_> Thanks
Apr 07 17:20:16 <zedstar__> TTFN,
Apr 07 17:21:04 <zedstar__> sign your name in blood he wont wanna mess with u
Apr 07 17:21:37 <ScaredyCat> put tears in the envelope
Apr 07 17:22:44 <abraxa_> "What the f*** is that s***?! I'm not gonna hire such a freak!"
Apr 07 17:22:45 <abraxa_> ;)
Apr 07 17:23:26 <abraxa_> (quoting the CEO's train of thought, that is)
Apr 07 17:24:01 <ScaredyCat> well, at least it wasn't too salty
Apr 07 17:25:10 <zedstar__> if u really wanna freak him include some clipping of your pubes
Apr 07 17:25:19 <zedstar__> right this is getting silly now
Apr 07 17:25:21 <ScaredyCat> roflmao
Apr 07 17:35:20 <abraxa_> lol zedstar__ 
Apr 07 17:35:31 <abraxa_> I'm not gonna ask if you ever have, though that is tempting to do :)
Apr 07 17:38:35 <ewon> quake 3 on the ipod touch, using openGL ES: http://hermitworks.blogspot.com/2008/04/quake-3-itouch.html
Apr 07 17:40:59 <DPThough1> ewon: wow. Thats porn
Apr 07 17:42:53 <ewon> DPThough1: openGL ES is pretty sweet
Apr 07 17:48:02 <Ghiottone> hi all
Apr 07 17:48:07 <abraxa_> Is that 320x240, ewon?
Apr 07 17:50:46 <Ghiottone> I have been working on a new homepage for the google custom search engine for openmoko
Apr 07 17:51:02 <Ghiottone> it includes rss feeds from planet and wiki recent changes.
Apr 07 17:51:15 <Ghiottone> it is at http://aiurlano.netsons.org/OpenMoko/index-rss.html
Apr 07 17:51:38 <Ghiottone> feedback of any kind is appreciated :)
Apr 07 17:52:05 <zedstar__> nice ghiottone.....how do u configure it to restrict where it searches?
Apr 07 17:52:57 <Ghiottone> zedstar__, it is a google feature named coop. I can add or exclude sites from a google interface
Apr 07 17:54:03 <Ghiottone> zedstar__, google then provides you with the code to call their service from your pages
Apr 07 17:54:04 <thomasg_> abraxa_, don't think so - ipod touch can't do 320x240 w/o software scaling - should be 480x320 or 240x160
Apr 07 17:54:20 <zedstar__> ghiottone ah interesting.....on some project im on we were looking at custom kind of search engine on the device...eg web server plus some search engine code to do offline reading......something this handy
Apr 07 17:54:45 <abraxa_> thomasg_: Hmm, interesting. Means we could do something like that on the Neo, even less fancy
Apr 07 17:55:18 <zedstar__> something like this is handy i mean
Apr 07 17:55:37 <Ghiottone> zedstar__, with this google coop thing, you can search only on sites that google already indexes, unfortunately
Apr 07 17:56:03 <Ghiottone> zedstar__, I don't think there is a way to add offline data
Apr 07 17:56:03 <ewon> the iphone-alikes on dealextreme amuse me
Apr 07 17:57:43 <Ghiottone> zedstar__, the homepage from google is http://www.google.com/coop/ if you want to start experimenting
Apr 07 17:57:48 <zedstar__> giottone what u have done is handy though for domain specific stuff
Apr 07 17:58:13 <zedstar__> ghiottone thanks will take a look
Apr 07 17:58:33 <Ghiottone> zedstar__, yep. I have added all openmoko sites and special pages like wiki index or links to technical documents
Apr 07 17:59:12 <Ghiottone> zedstar__, so that results could include pdf documents too.
Apr 07 17:59:18 <zedstar__> ghiottone basically this was a requirment on a project im on they wanna research a specific specialised area and are not finding google so handy
Apr 07 18:00:40 <Ghiottone> zedstar__, then coop is a good idea, I think. I have created another custom search engine about operating systems development as I have done one in the past and I find it really good
Apr 07 18:01:31 <zedstar__> ghiottone yeh.....i will have to experiement.....what i have done is got web server running on device and some open source search engine called estraier so they can search docs offline and view
Apr 07 18:02:24 <Ghiottone> zedstar__, estraier? never heard about it...
Apr 07 18:03:12 <zedstar__> ghiottone u can basically have search engine running...it indexes various files like txt, pdf etc
Apr 07 18:04:52 <Ghiottone> zedstar__, I thought I heard lucene was a good open source search engine. isn't it good for you?
Apr 07 18:05:07 <Ghiottone> zedstar__, do you have a link for estratier? I'd like to know more
Apr 07 18:05:36 <wurp2> Your newsletter intrigues me...
Apr 07 18:05:50 <zedstar__> ghiottone there is http://estraier.sourceforge.net/ and http://hyperestraier.sourceforge.net/ 
Apr 07 18:05:58 <zedstar__> the later has web crawler etc
Apr 07 18:06:15 <zedstar__> ghiottone will look at lucene
Apr 07 18:07:58 <zedstar__> ghiottone one idea was to have this kind of software runninng on device and to sync a repository of docs with your different devices
Apr 07 18:08:23 <zedstar__> ghiottone the users would then use search engine to find stuff on their device instead of some native finder tool etc
Apr 07 18:11:32 <zedstar__> ghiottone the good thing about estraier is it is C based and compiled fined on ARM
Apr 07 18:34:20 <quicksand> josch: ping
Apr 07 18:39:04 <Ghiottone> back
Apr 07 18:39:12 <Ghiottone> zedstar__, thanks I'll have a look
Apr 07 18:39:44 <Ghiottone> zedstar__, I'm now wondering: is your purpose to look up documents on every device you own?
Apr 07 18:40:03 <Ghiottone> zedstar__, something like a distributed google desktop?
Apr 07 18:49:00 <zedstar__> ghiottone actually it was say u had a desktop and device and wanted sync of docs and able to search in same way on them
Apr 07 18:49:41 <zedstar__> ghiottone the idea was to load the repository somehow with domain specific docs
Apr 07 18:55:13 <ewon> an office mate just showed me the GLUT teapot running on his ipod touch, with the camera controlled by the accelerometers
Apr 07 18:59:44 <Ghiottone>      zedstar__ what do you mean by domain specific ?
Apr 07 19:01:22 <zedstar__> ghiottone well the docs and info is specific to an industry not general
Apr 07 19:01:54 <Ghiottone> mmmm
Apr 07 19:02:52 <zedstar__> ghiottone kind of like the online thing with coop anyway but offline capabilities
Apr 07 19:03:07 <Ghiottone> zedstar__, I'd say that rsyncing the docs from the device to the desktop everytime they are connected or once in a while and then search the desktop with a google desktop like application would do the trick. Or do I miss the point?
Apr 07 19:03:25 <zedstar__> ghiottone yeh that is basically it :)
Apr 07 19:03:54 <zedstar__> ghiottone but running on the mobile also....no google search engine for that
Apr 07 19:07:25 <Ghiottone> zedstar__, aha I see. on the mobile it would only make sense searching docs on the mobile itself. Or do you need also to know of a docs that is on the desktop?
Apr 07 19:07:41 <Ghiottone> zedstar__, beagle is a os google dekstop like app
Apr 07 19:07:52 <Ghiottone> zedstar__, maybe it could be easy to port it to mobile
Apr 07 19:08:15 <zedstar__> ghiottone yeh acytually beagle would be great....but has to work on win mobile as well so something portable
Apr 07 19:09:53 <Ghiottone> zedstar__, argh. win mobile is even worst that win dsktp!
Apr 07 19:10:41 <cb22> josch: congrats :)
Apr 07 19:10:48 <zedstar__> ghiottone tell me about it!... the idea of web server + search engine locally came about to avoid interface code and have it running on different platforms..luckily im not doing win mobile i hope
Apr 07 19:11:31 <Ghiottone> zedstar__, mmm yeah I see. Good workaround
Apr 07 19:11:46 <Ghiottone> apache should work there
Apr 07 19:12:08 <zedstar__> ghiottone of course is nice and easy for linux.....yeh i have lighttpd running on my nokia tablet
Apr 07 19:12:15 <zedstar__> ghiottone and runs on openmoko
Apr 07 19:12:29 <zedstar__> ghiottone not so easy for win mobile i would bet
Apr 07 19:13:22 <Ghiottone> mmmm
Apr 07 19:13:31 <Ghiottone> I think apache is running fine on windows
Apr 07 19:13:55 <Ghiottone> that's why I though bout it for the mobile platform
Apr 07 19:14:39 <zedstar__> ghiottone not looked to see if it has been ported but be cool if does
Apr 07 19:15:02 <josch> cb22, ???
Apr 07 19:15:07 <josch> did i miss anything???
Apr 07 19:15:19 <josch> quicksand, pong! :-D
Apr 07 19:15:23 <josch> quicksand, finally you are there
Apr 07 19:15:26 <cb22> yeah, see mailing list
Apr 07 19:15:53 <quicksand> josch: yeah, had family visiting from out-of-town this weekend, so computer time would have been rude.  :-)
Apr 07 19:16:04 <josch> *reading past mails...*
Apr 07 19:16:13 <quicksand> josch: new (Friday) Debian tarball works great
Apr 07 19:16:20 <josch> quicksand, now you can be sure everything is right with the tar
Apr 07 19:16:23 <josch> yepp
Apr 07 19:16:31 <josch> great it works!
Apr 07 19:16:38 <quicksand> It's well over twice the size of the previous one, so that suggested something was wrong before
Apr 07 19:16:58 <Ghiottone> josch, grats from me too :)
Apr 07 19:17:05 <josch> lol wait guys!!
Apr 07 19:17:13 <josch> i havent even read the email yet!!
Apr 07 19:17:21 <quicksand> I haven't had a chance to do much with it yet (e.g., install apps) but I appreciate the effort you put into it.  Thanks!
Apr 07 19:17:47 <josch> quicksand, you will see it working as a usual debian install - have fun!
Apr 07 19:21:28 <josch> oh nice!!
Apr 07 19:21:42 <josch> thanks mickael!
Apr 07 19:21:47 <josch> michael even ^^
Apr 07 19:22:12 <Ghiottone> got to go now. bye all!
Apr 07 19:23:59 <quicksand> josch: congrats -- you earned it
Apr 07 19:24:18 <josch> quicksand, thanks!
Apr 07 19:24:24 <josch> thank you all guys! :-D
Apr 07 19:24:42 <josch> i will post pixx of the tshirt as soon as i get it ^^
Apr 07 19:26:44 <quicksand> josch: does tslib or some other mechanism support right-clicking in the Debian setup?
Apr 07 19:27:21 <josch> quicksand, dont know how right clicking is accomplished on any touchscreen - i have no experience with them
Apr 07 19:29:37 <quicksand> josch: evtouch ( http://www.conan.de/touchscreen/evtouch.html ) allegedly supports it via touch-and-hold in one place, but I haven't gotten it to work on my Samsung Q1.
Apr 07 19:29:59 <quicksand> Perhaps I'll mess around and see what works on the Neo.
Apr 07 19:30:12 <josch> i tried evtouch on my neo but didnt get it working so far
Apr 07 19:30:19 <josch> tslib was much easier
Apr 07 19:30:29 <josch> may be because openmoko also uses tslib
Apr 07 19:31:05 <quicksand> The Nokia tablets do it, I think, so I'll check into what they use when I have a chance.
Apr 07 19:31:25 <quicksand> I think they use tslib plus something else to interpret the taps.
Apr 07 19:31:31 <josch> rightclick would be uber
Apr 07 20:00:14 <unknown_lamer> oh my does qemu not run well over the network
Apr 07 20:01:40 <summatusmentis> unknown_lamer: it doesn't run well period I don't think
Apr 07 20:04:09 <unknown_lamer> summatusmentis: yeah but over the network it is saturating my 100mbit pipe (even with still images! I think it's just pushing an entire image of the screen over and over for no reason at all)
Apr 07 20:04:38 <unknown_lamer> you'd think it would at least be smart enough to realize its fb never changed
Apr 07 20:05:10 <summatusmentis> unknown_lamer: holy cow...
Apr 07 20:06:51 <unknown_lamer> it doesn't usually take half an hour to boot I hope (2.13Ghz athlon)
Apr 07 20:07:29 <unknown_lamer> bah now I have to build qemu locally and hurt my poor ram starved laptop more
Apr 07 20:14:00 <summatusmentis> unknown_lamer: I'm building qemu on ubuntu under vmware on an OS X host
Apr 07 20:16:13 <unknown_lamer> ouch
Apr 07 20:16:47 <summatusmentis> no kidding
Apr 07 20:17:27 <unknown_lamer> I have a two machine setup ... all dev takes place on my (now headless) dual athlon workstation with my laptop being mostly a dumb X terminal running a few apps
Apr 07 20:17:47 <unknown_lamer> but now I have to install qemu locally ... at least I can still run the dev toolchain on the better machine
Apr 07 20:17:50 <summatusmentis> well, that's one way to do it
Apr 07 20:18:24 <unknown_lamer> I also don't have enough free diskspace on the laptop to build the full toolchain :-X
Apr 07 20:18:37 <unknown_lamer> plus 512M RAM + 5400RPM disk ... swapping is pain
Apr 07 20:18:56 <unknown_lamer> or doing anything to the disk really
Apr 07 20:44:08 <josch> http://neo1973-germany.de/wiki/Tshirt <= now that i got the firt community member of the week i let the commuity decide which shirt i should take
Apr 07 20:44:17 <josch> please leave your vote there!
Apr 07 20:48:10 * CoreDump votes for "openmoko small t-shirt"
Apr 07 20:48:45 <josch> CoreDump, the last column is for your vote ^^
Apr 07 20:49:27 <josch> maybe i should link to the community member of the week page - can somebody clean the openmoko wiki page with the first week up so the second week gets on the top?
Apr 07 20:52:06 <josch> what about the idea to convert votes from the first week to the second?
Apr 07 20:52:33 <josch> then we might finally get kdean06 as the next winner :-)
Apr 07 20:53:11 * kdean06 hides
Apr 07 21:00:34 <cb22> josch: i vote the camisole :p
Apr 07 21:01:05 <unknown_lamer> ah, qemu running locally actually works at a reasonable speed
Apr 07 21:01:06 <wurp2> why not?  abraxa did
Apr 07 21:01:57 <abraxa_> Of course! Girlfriends like presents.
Apr 07 21:02:03 <josch> lol
Apr 07 21:02:07 <josch> i see it coming!!
Apr 07 21:02:21 <josch> i will never see my shirt again ^^
Apr 07 21:02:26 <josch> my hard earned...
Apr 07 21:02:29 <josch> *cough*
Apr 07 21:02:51 <cb22> josch: next project: gentoo on neo
Apr 07 21:03:13 <cb22> compile it on there too
Apr 07 21:03:20 <summatusmentis> there's already a project for gentoo on zaurus, shouldn't be that hard :)
Apr 07 21:03:30 <josch> cb22, ask the guys @ !eof they did it on the 24c3 with my neo ^^
Apr 07 21:03:38 * mwester notes the amazing color display when attempting to resume from a suspend with the AUX button, and thinks that sometimes "broken" comes up with very creative results...
Apr 07 21:03:52 <josch> as i heard from thomasg_ there is already gentoo for embedded
Apr 07 21:04:06 <quicksand> I'm still waiting for XP to run on my Neo -- maybe in qemu.  Who's up for that?
Apr 07 21:04:11 <josch> compilation on the neo is crazy...
Apr 07 21:04:20 <josch> i finally can compile stuff with debian but
Apr 07 21:04:23 <josch> it takes AGES
Apr 07 21:04:25 <summatusmentis> http://www.opensistemas.com/comunidad/gentoo_for_zaurus/
Apr 07 21:04:27 <unknown_lamer> I get to do Lisp compilation on the neo
Apr 07 21:04:30 <josch> two days for eet lib only
Apr 07 21:04:47 <unknown_lamer> as I am pretty sure that there is no clisp cross compiler support
Apr 07 21:05:02 <unknown_lamer> oh wait I am fucktarded it has its own VM ... hopefully it is byte compatible between archs
Apr 07 21:06:16 <raster> hahahahah
Apr 07 21:06:34 <josch> cb22, i still dont see your vote for the camisole ^^
Apr 07 21:07:00 <unknown_lamer> mmm debian on a phone
Apr 07 21:07:06 <summatusmentis> w00t!!! qemu inside of vmware
Apr 07 21:07:17 <raster> wooot
Apr 07 21:07:21 <raster> its working
Apr 07 21:07:24 <josch> lol?
Apr 07 21:07:47 <raster> hmmm
Apr 07 21:07:47 <raster> ok
Apr 07 21:07:51 <raster> backspace is an issue
Apr 07 21:07:53 <raster> bugger
Apr 07 21:07:58 <raster> will fix later
Apr 07 21:07:59 <raster> :)
Apr 07 21:08:07 <josch> hrm... should i do apt-get install qemu on my neo and see if running it eqals a division by zero? :P
Apr 07 21:08:08 <unknown_lamer> summatusmentis: such masochism
Apr 07 21:08:31 <summatusmentis> unknown_lamer: I don't want to install linux natively though
Apr 07 21:08:42 <cb22> josch: im still instaling x on my new eee :
Apr 07 21:09:07 <cb22> raster: is e taking over?
Apr 07 21:09:14 <raster> have @ 152 'workou'
Apr 07 21:09:14 <raster> have @ 110 'smelly'
Apr 07 21:09:14 <raster> have @ 130 'smelli'
Apr 07 21:09:14 <raster> have @ 170 'sirloi'
Apr 07 21:09:14 <raster> have @ 181 'sodomy'
Apr 07 21:09:15 <raster> have @ 201 'sodomi'
Apr 07 21:09:17 <raster> have @ 195 'airily'
Apr 07 21:09:18 <mwester> raster: /me neee^Hdsa^H d^Hthe baks^H^Hckspace keu^Hy riggt^H^Hgh NOT^HW!
Apr 07 21:09:19 <raster> have @ 189 'disloy'
Apr 07 21:09:21 <raster> have @ 219 'dismou'
Apr 07 21:09:23 <raster> have @ 203 'dormou'
Apr 07 21:09:25 <raster> hmm
Apr 07 21:09:27 <raster> almost
Apr 07 21:09:29 <raster> its still also trying to do partial word matches
Apr 07 21:09:41 <raster> i typed in "wkelku"
Apr 07 21:09:45 <abraxa_> smelly... lol
Apr 07 21:09:46 <raster> on my qwerty kbd
Apr 07 21:09:51 <abraxa_> sodomy...
Apr 07 21:09:54 <raster> and "smelly" is the "best" match
Apr 07 21:10:02 <raster> (at a distance of 110)
Apr 07 21:10:23 <raster> whihc is what i was "intending to type" just intentionally getting my presses off by 1 or so
Apr 07 21:10:37 <raster> if i clean out the partial matches it'll be much less noise
Apr 07 21:11:12 <raster> interestign that sodomy is not far from smelly in terms of correction
Apr 07 21:11:12 <cb22> raster: if im startin on  new app, should i use gtk or some form of e?
Apr 07 21:11:13 <raster> :)
Apr 07 21:11:20 <raster> cb22:  use whatever u like
Apr 07 21:11:24 <josch> cb22, USE EDJE!!!
Apr 07 21:11:31 <raster> whatever works bets for your app and needs
Apr 07 21:11:33 <raster> best
Apr 07 21:11:39 <raster> i dont think we should be a one-trick pony
Apr 07 21:11:42 <raster> 1 widget set
Apr 07 21:11:45 <raster> "u must use gtk!"
Apr 07 21:11:49 <raster> "u must use qt"
Apr 07 21:11:51 <raster> "must be qtopia"
Apr 07 21:11:54 <raster> "must be efl"
Apr 07 21:12:03 <raster> use whatever  is most appropriate for your designs
Apr 07 21:12:18 <cb22> raster: buti dont know what is appropriate :)
Apr 07 21:12:40 <josch> cb22, what app do you want to start?
Apr 07 21:12:47 <cb22> my youtube player
Apr 07 21:13:00 <josch> be adviced that python+ejde works like a dream
Apr 07 21:13:20 <cb22> josch: thx, ill have a look
Apr 07 21:13:26 <josch> hrm.... video... - what e module is handling video again?
Apr 07 21:13:31 <josch> was it emotion?
Apr 07 21:13:33 <chillywilly> is the GTA02 out yet?
Apr 07 21:13:39 <josch> chillywilly, no
Apr 07 21:13:57 <chillywilly> bummer
Apr 07 21:14:02 * cb22 checks the temperature of hell... 85C. sorry, not yet
Apr 07 21:14:47 <ixian_probe> is the GTA04 out yet? I heard that someone was talking about it on the kernel list ^_^
Apr 07 21:14:51 <ixian_probe> ;)
Apr 07 21:15:26 <cb22> raster: btw, how many votes do you think we need for scardycat's poll? 1000 or so?
Apr 07 21:15:36 <josch> cb22, the canola guys at indt do python+efl+video very successfully - maybe you should check their stuff out and ask guys like k-s all you need to know. he is *very* helpful!
Apr 07 21:15:46 <summatusmentis> geez... it actually runs pretty quickly... <3 qemu
Apr 07 21:15:55 <wurp2> ixian_probe: No, but it has a feature to send itself back in time - mine appeared on my desk yesterday
Apr 07 21:16:14 <raster> cool!
Apr 07 21:16:19 <josch> wurp2, what a coincidence! there was one under my pillow this moring!
Apr 07 21:16:27 <cb22> summatusmentis: your core 2 quad at 2.4ghz is emulating a 266mhz arm machine resonably :p
Apr 07 21:16:38 <josch> lol
Apr 07 21:17:03 <josch> qemu does only use one core doesnt it?
Apr 07 21:17:07 <raster> werd!
Apr 07 21:17:17 <raster> now remoived partial matches
Apr 07 21:17:22 <summatusmentis> cb22: it's running inside of a virtualized machine though
Apr 07 21:18:05 <summatusmentis> OS X -> vmware fusion (ubuntu, 1 core, 512MB ram) -> qemu
Apr 07 21:18:07 <raster> cb22: maybe more. u might also want to add in that 3g may increase price by $200 or something
Apr 07 21:18:40 <raster> cb22:  youtube player...
Apr 07 21:18:41 * ScaredyCat giggles and makes up some names
Apr 07 21:18:42 <raster> hmmm
Apr 07 21:18:58 <raster> u are in a bit of trouble
Apr 07 21:19:02 <raster> emotion wont help
Apr 07 21:19:12 <raster> it will have zero yuv decode acceleration
Apr 07 21:19:23 <cb22> summatusmentis: your core 2 quad at 2.4ghz is emulating a 266mhz arm machine resonably :p/
Apr 07 21:19:26 <cb22> wtf
Apr 07 21:19:41 <summatusmentis> it actually seems to be, which is exciting
Apr 07 21:19:41 <cb22> raster: will i be able to get the xid of a widget?
Apr 07 21:19:42 <ScaredyCat> lol
Apr 07 21:19:49 <raster> xrender and software engines do yuv->Rgb and scalign all in software
Apr 07 21:19:54 <cb22> damn eee shift key
Apr 07 21:19:55 <raster> gl engne uses a fragment shader if available
Apr 07 21:20:02 <ScaredyCat> feed it 1.21 jiggawatts of power
Apr 07 21:20:07 <raster> widgets dont have xid's in efl land
Apr 07 21:20:17 <raster> a window will
Apr 07 21:20:28 <raster> if u just want to steal an amplayer window or somethng - fine
Apr 07 21:20:31 <cb22> raster: so no embdding mplayer? 
Apr 07 21:20:39 <raster> do the controls in a separate window
Apr 07 21:20:41 <raster> nup
Apr 07 21:20:52 <raster> well if u want to steal its window id and swallow it in
Apr 07 21:20:57 <raster> but its rather hacky
Apr 07 21:20:58 <raster> imho
Apr 07 21:21:10 <raster> gta02  + video, imho - not a good idea
Apr 07 21:21:16 <summatusmentis> cb22: how's the keyboard on eee?
Apr 07 21:21:22 <raster> iirespective
Apr 07 21:21:24 <cb22> summatusmentis: pretty nice
Apr 07 21:21:29 <raster> u might manage qvga video decode
Apr 07 21:21:32 <raster> might
Apr 07 21:21:34 <josch> is the source released yet?
Apr 07 21:21:38 <raster> more likely u'll be stuck to 160x120 or so
Apr 07 21:21:45 <raster> in reality
Apr 07 21:21:50 <josch> does the keyboard have a name?
Apr 07 21:21:57 <ScaredyCat> nigel
Apr 07 21:21:58 <summatusmentis> killume
Apr 07 21:22:00 <summatusmentis> :)
Apr 07 21:22:01 <raster> keyboard?
Apr 07 21:22:01 <josch> -.-
Apr 07 21:22:02 <cb22> raster: my videos are 160x128
Apr 07 21:22:07 <cb22> scaled to 320x240
Apr 07 21:22:07 <raster> cb22:  then u may be ok
Apr 07 21:22:17 <thomasg_> raster, "enter" is taken, so don't even mention it :P
Apr 07 21:22:17 <cb22> h264 + vorbis
Apr 07 21:22:20 <raster> jo its part of illume itself
Apr 07 21:22:20 <summatusmentis> cb22: too many pixels, he said 160x120!!!
Apr 07 21:22:52 <raster> summatusmentis:  i'm guessing based on the video bus speed
Apr 07 21:23:02 <raster> u can write 400x300 yuv data to the video card
Apr 07 21:23:04 <raster> @ 30fps
Apr 07 21:23:06 <raster> BUT
Apr 07 21:23:11 <summatusmentis> raster: I'm just being weird, ignore me
Apr 07 21:23:15 <raster> u wont get any spare cpu cycles for any decode
Apr 07 21:23:18 <cb22> 15fps is all i need
Apr 07 21:23:20 <raster> zero
Apr 07 21:23:26 <raster> then u may be fine
Apr 07 21:23:33 <raster> again - depends on needs
Apr 07 21:23:41 <raster> but no evas engines use xv for any accel
Apr 07 21:23:56 <cb22> boo :( raster cant you do some magic  pls?
Apr 07 21:23:57 <raster> basically because it is color-keyed only and has not been able to render to a pixmap before
Apr 07 21:24:03 <abraxa_> lol cb22 
Apr 07 21:24:04 <raster> and stil cant on most xservers
Apr 07 21:24:18 <raster> so i gave up on xv
Apr 07 21:24:43 <josch> magic??
Apr 07 21:24:46 <josch> i second this!
Apr 07 21:24:50 <cb22> yeah
Apr 07 21:24:59 <raster> hahaha
Apr 07 21:25:01 <raster> sorry
Apr 07 21:25:04 <raster> doing virtual keyboards
Apr 07 21:25:09 <raster> bjut.. its working
Apr 07 21:25:13 <raster> ... WORKING
Apr 07 21:25:15 <raster> MUHAHAHHA
Apr 07 21:25:18 <raster> my plan is working
Apr 07 21:25:19 <josch> -___-
Apr 07 21:25:34 <raster> it may be leaki9ng memory like a whore
Apr 07 21:25:37 <raster> but it works!
Apr 07 21:25:46 <quicksand> screenshot plz.  ;-)
Apr 07 21:25:50 <josch> video plz
Apr 07 21:25:56 <raster> no video
Apr 07 21:25:59 <raster> its debug output
Apr 07 21:26:05 <raster> rmljee ->
Apr 07 21:26:05 <summatusmentis> <insert visual keyboard pron here> plz
Apr 07 21:26:15 <raster> have @ 200 'ripost' match: 'ripost'
Apr 07 21:26:15 <raster> have @ 105 'empire' match: 'empire'
Apr 07 21:26:15 <raster> have @ 165 'enlist' match: 'enlist'
Apr 07 21:26:15 <raster> have @ 187 'dilute' match: 'dilute'
Apr 07 21:26:15 <raster> have @ 179 'filmed' match: 'filmed'
Apr 07 21:26:16 <raster> ...
Apr 07 21:26:20 <josch> its /really/ getting late...
Apr 07 21:26:24 <raster> with "empire" as the best match
Apr 07 21:26:31 <raster> and thats what i was thinking of typing
Apr 07 21:26:31 <raster> :)
Apr 07 21:26:41 <abraxa_> Mind reading?
Apr 07 21:26:43 <raster> so its actually auto-correcting.. correctly
Apr 07 21:26:46 <josch> what wordlist?
Apr 07 21:26:48 <abraxa_> You *can* do magic then!
Apr 07 21:26:50 <raster> so far anyway
Apr 07 21:27:01 <raster> josch: /usr/share/dict/words
Apr 07 21:27:02 <raster> :)
Apr 07 21:27:03 <josch> lol
Apr 07 21:27:15 * cb22 thinks raster has been smoking again...
Apr 07 21:27:17 <raster> it has no concept of english frequency of use
Apr 07 21:27:26 <cb22> where do you think his nick comes from :p
Apr 07 21:27:31 <raster> i just am blindly reading the unix words dict
Apr 07 21:27:33 <josch> cb22, yeah - has to be some rly good stuff...
Apr 07 21:27:39 <raster> but it works
Apr 07 21:27:42 <raster> MUHAHAHHAHA
Apr 07 21:27:51 <cb22> lol
Apr 07 21:27:58 <cb22> pixiel faries
Apr 07 21:28:24 <josch> raster, you just grep through a file with 100.000 words everytime you want to search sth?
Apr 07 21:28:28 <cb22> raster: what about things like 'ls' is perfectly valid, but lz or lx is not
Apr 07 21:28:42 <raster> josch: orf course! i mean come on
Apr 07 21:28:47 <raster> my code is like
Apr 07 21:28:56 <raster> system("grep /usr/share/dict/words....
Apr 07 21:29:00 <raster> of course!
Apr 07 21:29:05 <josch> so much to the required magic...
Apr 07 21:29:06 <raster> i mean duh.. how else would i do it!
Apr 07 21:29:06 <cb22> lol
Apr 07 21:29:11 <raster> :-P
Apr 07 21:29:14 <josch> s/required/requested/
Apr 07 21:29:15 <apt> josch meant: so much to the requested magic...
Apr 07 21:29:26 <raster> of course i dont linearly grep
Apr 07 21:29:37 <josch> raster, well - one may think of indexing the word for faster access or anything
Apr 07 21:29:51 <raster> i load the words file once - build a 27-way tree lookup table to the mmaped file
Apr 07 21:29:56 <raster> and to a tree search
Apr 07 21:30:08 <raster> so its just rummaging the in-memory tree
Apr 07 21:30:17 <raster> sure - its not hyper efficient memory-wise
Apr 07 21:30:31 <raster> right now i'm just happy to have the algorithm work
Apr 07 21:30:34 <josch> "not hyper efficient"...
Apr 07 21:30:41 <josch> ^^
Apr 07 21:30:44 <summatusmentis> == uber uber slow
Apr 07 21:30:55 <raster> summatusmentis: its actually fast
Apr 07 21:31:00 <raster> really fast
Apr 07 21:31:05 <raster> it just consumes a fair bit of ram
Apr 07 21:31:16 <summatusmentis> that's good :) again, ignore me, i'm in kind of a weird mood
Apr 07 21:31:34 <raster> ita  tree
Apr 07 21:31:51 <raster> each tree node has a 27-way branch (26 for a-z and 1 for "misc chars")
Apr 07 21:31:56 <josch> i benchmarked the gta01 to find out how fast it can grep a wikipedia title list - 81MB in 82secs
Apr 07 21:32:05 <raster> so to lookup matches i really walk around very littler
Apr 07 21:32:19 <Qwell> josch: the titles of wikipedia articles is 81MB?
Apr 07 21:32:31 <raster> i donmt actually look at the words file until i've matched in the tree
Apr 07 21:32:31 <josch> Qwell, with a lot of optimization, yes
Apr 07 21:32:34 <summatusmentis> raster: we're just doing disjoint sets and trees, etc. in my data structures class
Apr 07 21:32:41 <raster> and the tre ejust holds the pointer to the mmaped words file
Apr 07 21:33:05 <raster> i need to tyr it on my gta02...
Apr 07 21:33:17 <Qwell> raster: how many chars do you store?
Apr 07 21:33:19 <raster> but first... to make it now return all results sorted with distances
Apr 07 21:33:30 <raster> Qwell: what do u mean?
Apr 07 21:33:31 <cb22> hey, i've heard of the de called e17, is it any good?
Apr 07 21:33:46 <raster> cb22:  it sucks. i know. i use it.
Apr 07 21:33:47 <raster> :)
Apr 07 21:33:54 <josch> lol?
Apr 07 21:33:57 <Qwell> well, if you're branching, each branch would represent a char, so how deep is the tree?
Apr 07 21:34:17 <Qwell> is it holding the entire word in the tree?
Apr 07 21:34:21 <josch> okay enough moko action for today
Apr 07 21:34:26 <josch> gnight mokomokos!
Apr 07 21:34:34 <cb22> night camisole josch 
Apr 07 21:34:52 <josch> dont forget to vote here: http://neo1973-germany.de/wiki/Tshirt :P
Apr 07 21:34:58 <josch> OMG NOOO
Apr 07 21:35:04 <josch> EVREYBODY VOTES FOR IT
Apr 07 21:35:10 <josch> I'M DOOMED!
Apr 07 21:35:12 <josch> ^^
Apr 07 21:35:15 <abraxa_> Yep.
Apr 07 21:35:44 <josch> kk i will explain it to my girlsfriend tomorrow
Apr 07 21:35:48 <josch> so long
Apr 07 21:35:50 <josch> bye!
Apr 07 21:36:20 * ScaredyCat giggles
Apr 07 21:38:49 * cb22 registers just to vote :p
Apr 07 21:39:27 * cb22 slaps himself
Apr 07 21:39:34 <cb22> the web looks differnt in w3m
Apr 07 21:40:15 <raster> Qwell: the tree is as deep as the max # of chars in any word in it
Apr 07 21:40:23 <raster> Qwell: 1 tree level per char
Apr 07 21:40:35 <cb22> so supercalifragalistic(...)
Apr 07 21:40:38 <Qwell> gotcha
Apr 07 21:41:07 <raster> yes - i know i can spend a lot more time doign all sorts of data structure fun
Apr 07 21:41:16 <raster> but i'm just going for somethnig straightforward right now
Apr 07 21:41:23 <raster> i want to get this finished in the next few hrs
Apr 07 21:41:28 <Qwell> not critiquing - was just curious :)
Apr 07 21:42:23 <summatusmentis> cb22: you don't need to register
Apr 07 21:43:16 <cb22> raster: antidestablishmentarianism
Apr 07 21:43:22 <cb22> thats a real word too
Apr 07 21:43:31 <cb22> summatusmentis: i k now, w3m was tripping
Apr 07 21:43:42 <summatusmentis> oh, ok
Apr 07 21:44:07 <summatusmentis> why are you using w3m?
Apr 07 21:45:19 <cb22> still installing x on my ee
Apr 07 21:45:23 <cb22> eee*
Apr 07 21:45:44 <summatusmentis> doesn't it come w/ x on it?
Apr 07 21:45:54 <cb22> nd?
Apr 07 21:45:59 <cb22> im running freebsd now
Apr 07 21:46:02 <cb22> :)
Apr 07 21:46:34 <summatusmentis> freebsd? I tried that once, didn't realize that my keymap was messed up, and then couldn't log in :)
Apr 07 21:47:22 <cb22> hehe, i would say freebsd > linnux but that would be suicide here :p
Apr 07 21:47:32 <raster> cb22:  i know
Apr 07 21:47:32 <raster> :)
Apr 07 21:48:07 <summatusmentis> cb22: blasphemy! OS X > freebsd
Apr 07 21:48:13 <raster> ok
Apr 07 21:48:16 <raster> rebuilding some ipks
Apr 07 21:48:29 * cb22 sends summatusmentis back to cupertino
Apr 07 21:48:40 <raster> any ipks' provide a /usr/share/dict/words?
Apr 07 21:48:50 <CVirus> OS X is proprietary software
Apr 07 21:49:01 <summatusmentis> cb22: I like OS X, it makes my computer work(otherwise I'm tinkering constantly, and breaking things :D)
Apr 07 21:49:06 <summatusmentis> CVirus: yeah, and?
Apr 07 21:49:29 <CVirus> just stating :-D
Apr 07 21:50:25 <summatusmentis> CVirus: :) I'm all for OSS, OS X is just the best OS I've ever used
Apr 07 21:50:44 <wurp2> Yay, FreeBSD!  Without it, Mac might have to give away their hard work fancifying BSD ;-)
Apr 07 21:51:00 <summatusmentis> :)
Apr 07 21:51:02 <summatusmentis> fair enough
Apr 07 21:51:51 <CVirus> hehe
Apr 07 22:11:52 <raster> MUHAHAHAHAH!
Apr 07 22:11:55 <raster> it's alive
Apr 07 22:11:57 <raster> ALIIIIVE!
Apr 07 22:12:14 * thos gets the fly squatter
Apr 07 22:19:49 <summatusmentis> raster: when do we get to see pics?
Apr 07 22:20:25 <raster> summatusmentis: u wont
Apr 07 22:20:32 <raster> i dont intend to do any screenshots
Apr 07 22:20:37 <summatusmentis> :'-(
Apr 07 22:20:38 <raster> the code is in svn
Apr 07 22:20:38 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r148 10/trunk/software/pyneod/ (6 files): 
Apr 07 22:20:38 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: pygsmd's third reincarnation
Apr 07 22:20:38 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: seperates unsol. messages from commands
Apr 07 22:20:38 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: better responsivnes
Apr 07 22:20:38 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: plugin mechanism for different hw / at-dialects
Apr 07 22:20:39 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: proper timeout handling by command (not fully done right now)
Apr 07 22:20:41 <summatusmentis> alright, fair enough
Apr 07 22:20:43 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: device info, pin entry work. registry does not
Apr 07 22:33:05 <cb22> zomg more updtes from steve :)
Apr 07 22:48:32 <summatusmentis> cb22: more updates only because people are getting incredibly impatient
Apr 07 22:49:23 <Sonicadvance> :D
Apr 07 23:02:01 * mwester yawns, and wanders off to the ml archives to see what all the excitement is
Apr 07 23:02:26 <summatusmentis> mwester: nothing exciting, people are just anxious
Apr 07 23:12:05 <kdean06> How do I install the gllin driver? I'm getting "invalid magic" trying to install the .ipk...
Apr 07 23:14:15 <gamin> kdean06: you may ask this question on the dev-llist
Apr 07 23:14:54 <cesarb> SpeedEvil: still a bit too busy :(
Apr 07 23:15:05 <cesarb> SpeedEvil: and things have been happening around here :(
Apr 07 23:16:04 <kdean06> Oh, I think I may have found something...
Apr 07 23:16:34 <gamin> kdean06: what was it?
Apr 07 23:17:08 <kdean06> It seems that what was actually downloaded was the index page, not the ipkg.
Apr 07 23:17:36 <kdean06> Yeah, that was it. :P
Apr 07 23:20:11 <Sonicadvance1> os[Linux 2.6.24-12-generic x86_64] distro[Debian lenny/sid] cpu[4 x AMD Phenom(tm) 9600 Quad-Core Processor (AuthenticAMD) @ 2.31GHz] mem[Physical: 1003.9MB, 41.0% free] disk[Total: 153.7GB, 14.0% free] video[nVidia Corporation GeForce 8600 GTS] sound[HDA-Intel - HDA ATI SB]
Apr 07 23:20:20 <Sonicadvance1> hm, wrong room :D
Apr 07 23:21:22 <raster> ok
Apr 07 23:21:24 <mwester> It needs another GB of memory anyway.
Apr 07 23:21:27 <raster> now.. waiting on dodji
Apr 07 23:21:37 <raster> i've done the major work in evas to make it glamo-acceleratable for xrender
Apr 07 23:23:49 <gamin> has anyone else seen gllin showing wrong altitudes?
Apr 07 23:24:02 <rtm> How wrong?
Apr 07 23:25:21 <gamin> essentially the height of geoid (mean sea level) above WGS84 ellipsoid calculation is nonsense
Apr 07 23:25:38 <gamin> here where I live I get 48.5m too much
Apr 07 23:26:29 <gamin> $GPGGA,123519,4807.038,N,01131.000,E,1,08,0.9,545.4,M,48.5,M,,*47
Apr 07 23:26:51 <rtm> How many satellites are you getting data from when you see that large an error?
Apr 07 23:27:35 <gamin> has nothing to do with the number of satellites, the height of of geoid (mean sea level) above WGS84 ellipsoid depends on your position
Apr 07 23:27:45 <gamin> and is a calculated value
Apr 07 23:27:52 <gamin> not a gps signal value
Apr 07 23:28:10 <gamin> thus every other gps I have shows always 48.5 here
Apr 07 23:28:25 <rtm> Oh - ok, I'm afraid I don't know anything about that.
Apr 07 23:28:37 <rtm> sorry
Apr 07 23:29:25 <gamin> well, the question is, does somebody have checked how precise the altitude is?
Apr 07 23:31:08 <CVirus> [01:19] <gamin> has nothing to do with the number of satellites, the height of of geoid (mean sea level) above WGS84 ellipsoid depends on your position
Apr 07 23:31:17 <CVirus> that's the "geekies" sentence i read today
Apr 07 23:31:24 <CVirus> geekiest*
Apr 07 23:31:45 <gamin> CVirus: I was to lazy to rewrite it and just copied it :)
Apr 07 23:31:50 <CVirus> hehe
Apr 07 23:32:05 <gamin> http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/nmea.htm#GGA
Apr 07 23:33:40 <gamin> point being is that the earth is not a sphere and depending on where you are you need to add/substract this difference in order to get the correct altitude
Apr 07 23:34:02 <I-MOD> you could try using a different ellipsoid model like WGS90 or one even new than that
Apr 07 23:34:24 <gamin> I-MOD: gllin is closed source...
Apr 07 23:34:45 <I-MOD> even so, you could redo calculations once you get lat/lon from the sats
Apr 07 23:35:35 <I-MOD> just saying there are ways around it
Apr 07 23:38:45 <gamin> I-MOD: I can shoot myself in my foot too ;-))) --- see yourself:
Apr 07 23:38:46 <gamin> http://www.esri.com/news/arcuser/0703/graphics/geoid4_lg.jpg
Apr 07 23:39:17 <gamin> :) not really easy to put that into a one-liner perl ;o)
Apr 07 23:40:11 <gamin> the image shows the differences between the mathematical WGS84 ellipsoid and the real geoid...
Apr 07 23:43:12 <unknown_lamer> ah using vnc with qemu results in a workably fast display
Apr 07 23:45:03 <christooss> hello
Apr 07 23:45:06 <christooss> anyone here
Apr 07 23:45:15 <rtm> yup.
Apr 07 23:45:26 <christooss> If I want to start developing openmoko application ie. game
Apr 07 23:45:30 <christooss> where do I start
Apr 07 23:45:52 <christooss> Is there dev documentation for userprograms
Apr 07 23:45:53 <christooss> ?
Apr 07 23:45:53 <rtm> Well, there are getting started instructions on the wiki - have you looked there?"
Apr 07 23:46:18 <christooss> nope :)
Apr 07 23:46:36 <rtm> Yes, there are instructions on building the development environment, building a"Hello World" GUI, etc.
Apr 07 23:46:39 <christooss> irc window was open and I asked :)
Apr 07 23:46:51 <christooss> ok tnx
Apr 07 23:47:06 <christooss> for now :)
Apr 07 23:47:09 <rtm> THere is a simulator which allows you to test your code even if you don't have an actual neo1973 available.
Apr 07 23:48:28 <christooss> rtm oh?
Apr 07 23:48:50 <christooss> I have run openmoko through qemu
Apr 07 23:49:59 <christooss> you mean toolchain?
Apr 07 23:50:46 <rtm> Yes - I find building the environment with MokoMakefile works best.
Apr 07 23:51:27 <rtm> You might first look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_a_hello_world_application
Apr 07 23:53:38 <abraxa_> christooss: http://buildhost.automated.it/sdk/openmoko-P1-Snapshot-20080126-armv4t-linux-gnueabi-toolchain-openmoko.tar.bz2 is what you most likely want to use.
Apr 07 23:59:23 <christooss> tnx for the info
Apr 07 23:59:28 <christooss> I will look in to it
Apr 08 00:28:02 <CIA-41> openmoko: 03werner * r4321 10/developers/werner/bin/hxd: hxd: ssh wrapper for HXD8
Apr 08 02:51:18 <rtm> Is there a picture viewer that works well on the neo1973?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Apr 08 02:59:56 2008