**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 05 02:59:57 2008
May 05 05:48:33 <Tuju> When?
May 05 05:48:44 <doc|home> when what?
May 05 05:48:50 <Tuju> shop opens.
May 05 05:49:14 <Tuju> https://direct.openmoko.com/
May 05 05:49:40 <patoh> Tuju: when the FreeRunner is released?
May 05 05:49:45 <doc|home> large scale production starts may 9th
May 05 05:49:56 <Tuju> doc|home: ah, that's news!
May 05 05:50:00 <doc|home> 9th - 16th
May 05 05:50:06 <Tuju> ack
May 05 05:50:23 <rtm> doc: Wow - that's a scoop!
May 05 05:50:50 <doc|home> what can I say, I'm in the know (I read the mailing list :P )
May 05 05:50:54 <Tuju> doc|home: perhaps opening the shop for pre-orders already?
May 05 05:51:09 <doc|home> Tuju: nope, not until completed. 
May 05 05:51:10 <doc|home> afaik
May 05 05:51:16 <Tuju> ack
May 05 05:51:49 <rtm> doc: Do you know how many will be fabricated in the initial run?
May 05 05:52:27 <doc|home> rtm: nope
May 05 05:53:00 <Tuju> rtm I'd guess that "large scale production" stands for continuous manufacturing.
May 05 05:53:57 <mmontour> Meanwhile, GSM firmware issues continue to appear... (e.g. #1380 in OM bugzilla)
May 05 05:54:09 <kario> is it feasible to use gsmd on a regular laptop with nokia phone connected to /dev/rfcomm0?
May 05 05:54:36 <Tuju> http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1380
May 05 05:57:13 <mmontour> I wouldn't be concerned if we were able to field-upgrade the firmware, but it looks like that will not be possible.
May 05 05:57:30 <Daemonax> License issues?
May 05 05:58:44 <mmontour> License for sure, maybe also technical ones such as special hardware (but I don't know the details).
May 05 06:06:10 <mbuf> kario, AFAIK, that should work
May 05 06:06:50 <mbuf> kario, instead of /dev/ttySAC0, you just use /dev/rfcomm0
May 05 06:19:51 <fgau> moin mokos!
May 05 07:14:45 <Hopscotch> good morning
May 05 10:12:38 <berkus> mwester: ahhh, i mixed it up with GTA02 GPS chip!
May 05 10:27:06 <SpeedEvil> mmontour: there is no special hardware needed - it's dofware only
May 05 10:27:14 <SpeedEvil> (to upgrade modem furmware)
May 05 10:39:38 <SpeedEvil> s/u/i/
May 05 10:39:38 <apt> SpeedEvil meant: (to ipgrade modem furmware)
May 05 10:40:05 <diego_at_work> much better :D
May 05 10:40:16 <mjr> yesyes
May 05 10:59:28 <ccube_> tach
May 05 11:50:51 <folken> does anybody know wheter there are still debug boards available for ordering? My mail to sales, has sofar gone unanswered. 
May 05 11:58:57 <roh> folken when did you send it?
May 05 11:59:12 <folken> roh: some time in january. 
May 05 12:00:23 <diego_at_work> row: read the  topic ^^
May 05 12:00:29 <diego_at_work> *roh
May 05 12:02:00 <folken> roh: i can easely send one again, the question is just wheter there are still debug boards available. 
May 05 12:02:53 <roh> folken just resend it. probably it got lost in rt somewhere
May 05 12:03:15 <roh> we changed the targets for these addresses now to people directly
May 05 12:09:38 <folken> roh: i resent an email. thx. 
May 05 12:13:41 <toxygene> folken: www.pulster.de
May 05 12:18:46 <folken> toxygene: thx, but odering anything from germany to switzerland is expensive, a tax and logistical nightmare.
May 05 12:19:54 <toxygene> i´m sorry
May 05 12:20:21 <folken> toxygene: not your fault, but we should talk to our governments. :)
May 05 12:20:33 <toxygene> :-)
May 05 12:20:57 <folken> toxygene: last time i ordered something.. 60.- CHF "tax office handeling charge" 
May 05 12:21:02 <diego_at_work> 1) meet a girl in germany
May 05 12:21:13 <diego_at_work> 2) ask her to buy a neo for you
May 05 12:21:15 <diego_at_work> 3) ???
May 05 12:21:18 <diego_at_work> 4) profit!
May 05 12:21:23 <toxygene> i hate our politicians
May 05 12:21:50 <toxygene> 60 chf  -how much is this in euro?
May 05 12:22:05 <folken> diego_at_work: its actually cheaper to order a neo in USD than in EUR and ship it half way around the globe. 
May 05 12:22:56 <toxygene> thats crazy
May 05 12:23:13 <folken> 60 Swiss francs = 36.916377 Euros
May 05 12:23:25 <folken> according to google. 
May 05 12:23:55 <toxygene> it´s realy a nigthmare
May 05 12:24:22 <folken> and then there is the vat
May 05 12:24:38 <folken> basically you should be able to order without vat from a german store
May 05 12:24:46 <diego_at_work> probably, if they sell it at 399 euro ^^
May 05 12:25:05 <toxygene> yes
May 05 12:25:26 <folken> then they give you a form which you show the local tax office.. they charge you the swiss cat (7.6% the german one is 19.XX%) 
May 05 12:26:11 <folken> that would be the optimal process. 
May 05 12:26:22 <spyre> mickey|zzZZzz: should call status signal have phone number parameter?
May 05 12:26:26 <folken> s/cat/vat/
May 05 12:27:01 <toxygene> afk
May 05 12:27:17 <folken> but then you have to think out, is s&h included or not, (varies according to product), is it a production or prototype.. 
May 05 12:38:06 <SpeedEvil> spyre: there are devices out there with two radios AIUI.
May 05 12:38:28 <SpeedEvil> spyre: If anyone is likely to be running linux on them, I don't know.
May 05 12:40:43 <spyre> SpeedEvil: ?
May 05 12:44:43 <roh> folken if youre after vat.. well.. in the eu one always pays source-country vat. and for swiss it should be no eu-vat, but you propably have to pay swiss vat on reciept
May 05 12:45:05 <roh> somebody in luxemburg should open a distributor ;)
May 05 12:47:39 <folken> roh: yeah, but thats just the tax office. swisspost additionally charges: 10.- Handling Fee, 6.- Examiniation Fee, and if you are unlucky: 8.- Chf storage fee. 
May 05 12:48:11 <folken> http://www.ezv.admin.ch/zollinfo_privat/zu_beachten/00351/index.html?lang=en
May 05 12:48:29 <roh> irgh
May 05 12:48:59 <roh> thats evil.. i only pay vat everytime i recieve a device, regardless if from the us or from tw
May 05 12:49:59 <roh> even the same for ups and dhl... and they all don't have change with them.. and then want vat in 'abgezaehlt' ;)
May 05 13:03:30 <flexd> bmk sucky internet? :/
May 05 13:06:01 <mickeyl> morning boys and girls
May 05 13:08:16 <mickeyl> spyre: call status: properties should only contain changed states. This means, the number will only be present once in properties when it comes because of a CLIP.  If you need the full status, just call GetCallStatus
May 05 13:08:45 <mickeyl> this is because i don't want to send static properties every time a call changes its status
May 05 13:09:01 <mickeyl> could be a long package
May 05 13:09:07 <mickeyl> who knows which properties we will come up with ;)
May 05 13:09:22 <mickeyl> If you think that's awkyard, i will reconsider. But lets first try it that way
May 05 13:16:48 <spyre> mickeyl: you're correct.. I was just feeling lazy/making sure  when getting dictionaries/GHashTable to work with dbus glib bindings :)
May 05 13:17:08 <mickeyl> hehe
May 05 13:17:42 <mickeyl> i will migrate gsmd2 and add your keys later today
May 05 13:17:50 <mickeyl> will send you a mail, when it's done
May 05 13:19:40 <spyre> mickeyl: ok great, I get this "paranoid" feeling when working without any version control :)
May 05 13:27:52 <mickeyl> :))
May 05 13:27:54 <mickeyl> same here
May 05 14:23:08 <pabs3> whats wrong with the wiki?
May 05 14:23:23 <pabs3> I get 404 for every page
May 05 14:25:39 <jmichel> pabs3: same problem here
May 05 14:25:49 * SpeedEvil hopes.
May 05 14:26:08 <jmichel> pabs3: There has been a lot of change on the wiki recently so I guess they are updating it
May 05 14:26:10 <SpeedEvil> It might be presto-chango - for the release.
May 05 14:26:26 * SpeedEvil crosses his earlobes.
May 05 14:28:28 * mwester is far beyond hope, and in the happy land of skepticism that lies beyond.
May 05 14:29:27 <SpeedEvil> sds: http://www.8051projects.net/dc-motor-interfacing/introduction.php may be of use to you
May 05 14:29:28 <SpeedEvil> oops
May 05 14:36:37 <diego_at_work> wiki is at http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php/Main_Page
May 05 16:15:54 <donomo> i hope someone is fixing the wiki
May 05 16:16:47 <CM> This might have something to do with it: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1123
May 05 16:17:23 <donomo> hmm. what im seeing looks like a DNS bug. wiki.openmoko.org goes to bugzilla
May 05 16:17:43 <abraxa_> donomo: Yeah, the wiki was updated today, it'll solve itself over the day
May 05 16:18:26 <donomo> k.
May 05 16:18:48 <abraxa_> You can use 88.198.93.221 in the meanwhile
May 05 16:18:51 <donomo> im excited that mass production looks to be started in a week.
May 05 16:19:13 <abraxa_> Got a source? (I don't read community ML)
May 05 16:19:32 <donomo> http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-May/016740.html
May 05 16:19:41 <donomo> "After we complete the test on the Pre MP, if we hit the Yeild numbers required, we start MP on the 9th at the earliest!. So, I'd put the window at May 9 to may 16th. Just to be accurate. "
May 05 16:21:07 <berkus> jeez
May 05 16:21:10 * berkus jumps
May 05 16:21:52 <abraxa_> donomo: Thanks for the heads up :)
May 05 16:25:59 <emre__> high folks where can I find the event values returned from the read call to the /dev/input/event2?
May 05 16:26:47 <roh> donomo the wiki got fixed ;) thats the source of the symptoms youre experiencing
May 05 16:26:49 <roh> http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-May/016777.html
May 05 16:27:51 <donomo> roh: ah cool i see the ip address. thx
May 05 16:58:08 <CIA-43> freesmartphone.org: 03mdt * r1197f8342497 10/pyneod/ (40 files in 3 dirs): seperated new module pyneo
May 05 17:02:45 <CIA-43> freesmartphone.org: 03mdt * r2c1e5be9c7d7 10/pyneod/pyneo/.__init__.py.swp: garbage removed
May 05 17:14:20 <zedstar_> ooooh pretty diagram http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenmokoFramework#Architectural_Overview
May 05 17:15:48 <summatusmentis> I wanna sleep
May 05 17:19:18 <mortenlysgaard> Does anyone know if the event api will support dragging and gesturelike things? Thinking of how intuitve this is when using a touch screen phone
May 05 17:20:04 <kinneh> hi all does anybody got current build running WITH X11 ?
May 05 17:20:16 <kinneh> my loads but ends with a text login :-(
May 05 17:20:46 <kinneh> from 2008-05-01
May 05 17:23:51 <linuxxr> then there will be the tuning of the software before release
May 05 17:43:01 <abraxa_> kinneh: If you ssh into it, run /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm (or so) it should start and from then on always start
May 05 17:43:10 <abraxa_> YMMV, but that's how it worked for me
May 05 18:13:04 <ccfly> hi there ! :>
May 05 18:14:35 <abraxa_> Heya ccfly 
May 05 18:25:03 <kinneh> abraxa_: oh, thx!
May 05 19:13:00 <CIA-43> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * rc9d948a1e05e 10/ophoned/pygsm/ (6 files): python-ophoned: merge with upstream
May 05 19:13:00 <CIA-43> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r25ed3a7a2625 10/ophoned/pygsm/ (6 files): 
May 05 19:13:00 <CIA-43> freesmartphone.org: Revert "python-ophoned: merge with upstream"
May 05 19:13:00 <CIA-43> freesmartphone.org: This reverts commit c9d948a1e05e71da6cdb5eb4a794979998364e9c.
May 05 19:13:02 <CIA-43> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * rbfc72e2c1073 10/ophoned/pygsm/ (6 files): 
May 05 19:13:04 <CIA-43> freesmartphone.org: Revert "Revert "python-ophoned: merge with upstream""
May 05 19:13:06 <CIA-43> freesmartphone.org: This reverts commit 25ed3a7a26250201c878b70a32d4f589122ac0a6.
May 05 19:13:08 <CIA-43> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r1330e32daa3c 10/ophoned/pygsm/ (7 files): python-ophoned/pygsm: remove bogus executable bits, add TODO file
May 05 19:15:03 * mwester 's head spins as he tries to sort out reversions of reversions... :D
May 05 19:15:14 <mickeyl> hehehe
May 05 19:15:14 <mickeyl> sorry
May 05 19:15:29 <mickeyl> not skilled enough with git yet
May 05 19:15:32 <mickeyl> 2nd day
May 05 19:16:08 <woglinde> *g*
May 05 19:20:05 <ewon> http://www.youtube.com/v/5s5EvhHy7eQ&hl=en 
May 05 19:40:50 <kdean06> ewon, Oh yeah? http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZfBURhHNpmk
May 05 20:14:34 <CIA-43> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * rf93332e3a934 10/ophoned/pygsm/attention.py: python-ophoned/pygsm: add DumbParser to attention class
May 05 20:14:34 <CIA-43> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r0d5cc0963e63 10/ophoned/ (modem.py objects.py): python-ophoned: first combinated function GetInfo now works (minus error and timeout handling)
May 05 21:11:40 <israel> so
May 05 21:11:46 <israel> how freerunner looks?
May 05 21:12:07 <israel> will be @june,2k8?
May 05 21:12:26 <SpeedEvil> 2800 is probably a bit pessimistic.
May 05 21:12:42 <israel> heh, u re joking, right!
May 05 21:13:02 * SpeedEvil points at the man who (probably) knows.
May 05 21:13:12 <SpeedEvil> (but isn't saying)
May 05 21:13:17 * israel looks around, but didnt see him online!
May 05 21:14:06 <SpeedEvil> It's been said that end may looks likely.
May 05 21:14:43 <israel> same been said at february... it looks for beginning of may!
May 05 21:15:46 <israel> but, can i ask, how many active developers openmoko have?
May 05 21:15:55 <israel> expect mickey..
May 05 21:17:08 <SpeedEvil> That must be it! They're all snowboarding, which is why there is no work being done.
May 05 21:17:29 * SpeedEvil votes for sedentary developers that sit at computers all day.
May 05 21:17:38 <israel> damn
May 05 21:25:55 <abraxa_> SpeedEvil: Admit it - you're just jealous because you weren't invited to go snowboarding with them ;)
May 05 21:28:09 <mmontour> My openocd-native build is failing in do_patch() - http://pastebin.ca/1008679
May 05 21:31:45 <israel> lol
May 05 21:31:50 <israel> speedevil pwned!
May 05 22:10:05 <ccfly> Look at the latest community update
May 05 22:10:16 <ccfly> and stop your bitching ! ;)
May 05 22:10:23 <ccfly> good night
May 05 22:27:40 <spydon> Tyra mai... err... COMMUNITY UPDATE!
May 05 22:56:38 <fenfir> will the free runner work with the motorola wall chargers since it is able to charge through usb?
May 05 22:58:05 <Qwell> fenfir: there isn't much to a motorola wall charger
May 05 22:58:17 <Qwell> it's pretty standard usb stuff, afaik
May 05 22:58:48 <fenfir> kk, thanks
May 05 22:59:05 <Qwell> the real question there is whether it can do fast charging or not
May 05 23:06:31 <mjr> the real question is whether it can do fast charging automatically without overrides
May 05 23:07:55 <Qwell> ^ what he said
May 05 23:08:04 <Qwell> ahh, open source ;)
May 05 23:10:14 <mjr> IIRC the mailing list indicated that the resistor check is software controlled (if it's on the same pins as on the neo), so one may well be able to cook up code to which you can "show" a charger and go "this is good for 500mA" or "1000mA"
May 05 23:10:18 <mjr> but we'll see
May 05 23:17:18 <SpeedEvil> Or more simply, if a power source appears, and it's not a computer, charge from it at 500mA
May 05 23:17:54 <SpeedEvil> Which will cause problems with very few devices, chiefly plugging into suspended busses.
May 05 23:17:55 <mjr> Well, yeah. 
May 05 23:18:40 <mjr> though a check is nice for 1A stuff :]
May 05 23:18:45 <SpeedEvil> Sure.
May 05 23:19:53 <SpeedEvil> But 500mA charge isn't too bad - full charge in a couple of hours when not active.
May 05 23:20:01 <mjr> no, it's not bad
May 06 02:11:43 <netsurf3> i cant find a specfic yes or no
May 06 02:11:50 <netsurf3> does freerunner have 3g?
May 06 02:11:57 <SpeedEvil> no.
May 06 02:12:14 <SpeedEvil> Unless you connect an external 3D modem.
May 06 02:12:15 <netsurf3> does it have any data connectivity over mobile networks?
May 06 02:12:22 <SpeedEvil> GPRs
May 06 02:12:53 <netsurf3> for what reason was it not implimented?
May 06 02:12:58 <SpeedEvil> expense
May 06 02:13:04 <SpeedEvil> And difficulty
May 06 02:13:20 <SpeedEvil> you need maybe 3-5 models to cover the globe.
May 06 02:13:40 <netsurf3> with or without 3g?
May 06 02:13:40 <SpeedEvil> versus 1 for GPRS
May 06 02:13:44 <netsurf3> ah
May 06 02:14:12 <netsurf3> pesky :(
May 06 02:14:22 <SpeedEvil> And that means developing those models, versus developing only one, and adds problems with locating chipsets that are open enough.
May 06 02:14:40 <netsurf3> yes i can understand 
May 06 02:15:57 <netsurf3> is there a "ballpark" for the freerunners release?
May 06 02:16:03 <netsurf3> date
May 06 02:40:52 <SpeedEvil> Hopes of within the month.
May 06 02:41:08 <ewon> thats what we said in October :)
May 06 02:41:18 <ewon> *rimshot*
May 06 02:43:44 <sagacis> At the risk of asking a common question, is the wiki down today?
May 06 02:45:00 <willie_chen> I can't connect wiki page.
May 06 02:45:48 <sagacis> At least it's not just me.
May 06 02:47:03 <linuxxr> damn those red hat hackers
May 06 02:47:43 <sagacis> heh
May 06 02:47:51 <doc|home> :)
May 06 02:48:03 <linuxxr> site working
May 06 02:48:13 <doc|home> er, it was down, working for me now
May 06 02:48:21 <doc|home> might be a dns thing
May 06 02:48:26 <sagacis> Hmm... OpenDNS
May 06 02:48:43 <sagacis> That's an up-to-date topic!
May 06 02:48:47 <doc|home> hehe
May 06 02:50:30 <mmontour> wiki's up for me, and its DNS resolves to 88.198.93.221
May 06 02:51:39 <sagacis> Yup. DNS problem.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue May 06 02:59:57 2008