**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat May 10 02:59:57 2008 May 10 03:36:20 dnh: they didn't say starting production today, they said starting production sometime between may9 to 16th May 10 03:50:04 * doc|home pats pjz on the head May 10 03:50:10 it's ok, it'll be sooner than you think :) May 10 03:50:22 you've waited this long, another 2-3 weeks won't hurt :) May 10 04:30:23 hello May 10 06:17:36 hehe, from mailing list.. "free-runner is currently available for $500 in India" May 10 06:17:49 i wonder what this guy is smoking May 10 06:17:56 LOL May 10 06:19:15 he's going on about why $500 is too expensive May 10 06:22:13 cany anyone point me in the right direction for finding some current info for Openmoko on the Treo 650? May 10 07:43:19 heya~ May 10 10:05:39 so .. I could use 3 AAA NiMh rechargeable batteries ( 2700 mAh ) ? May 10 10:06:46 whut? May 10 10:06:49 BBishop, xplain May 10 10:07:26 well, the rechargeable battery in the freerunner is a 1.2 mAh battery, right ? May 10 10:07:38 ah... May 10 10:07:39 well May 10 10:07:44 reading the wiki said somethinng about being able to run ok off 3 AAA batteries .. May 10 10:07:57 recharging them isn't a problem ( I have an external charger for them ) May 10 10:08:01 it's better if power the freerunner via usb May 10 10:08:25 my rechargeable batteries are 2700 mAh so I would get a longer life .. right ? May 10 10:08:36 well it's theoretically possible but not preferred May 10 10:08:47 it's really better to power the neo via usb May 10 10:08:52 there you can use your batteries May 10 10:09:03 you have 2700mAh AAA batteries? May 10 10:09:07 that sounds like AA to me May 10 10:09:28 woups , I meant AA May 10 10:09:33 sorry for the confusion May 10 10:09:58 If you can find 2700mAh AAA, I want some :) May 10 10:10:10 I doubt we'll find any, any time soon. May 10 10:10:30 my mp3 player would surely need some ! May 10 10:11:57 josch, so, could I use my AA batteries and recharge them via freerunner's usb connection ? May 10 10:12:11 no i meant not that May 10 10:12:22 leave the freerunner battery where it is May 10 10:12:31 but supply additional power via usb May 10 10:12:44 there are usb charger at the market that do just that May 10 10:12:52 what about when I'm not around the computer ? May 10 10:13:06 I don't want to keep my mobile phone connected to a wire, even if I'm at home .. May 10 10:13:11 -.- May 10 10:13:20 i meant you use your batteries to power usb May 10 10:13:20 how much does the batter keep up now ? May 10 10:13:34 oooowwww, lol. May 10 10:13:44 nice idea. May 10 10:13:46 how do you want to fit three AA batteries into the freerunner?? May 10 10:13:56 so you have to deal with something outside May 10 10:13:59 ducktape! May 10 10:14:04 well, modding the back of it would be something :) May 10 10:14:12 so just plug in a usb cable that is powered by batteries May 10 10:14:19 there are also ready to use modules for that May 10 10:14:28 a lot of devices are charged via usb May 10 10:14:28 josch, can you point me to one please ? :) May 10 10:15:09 http://www.portablepowersupplies.co.uk/usbliionbatterypack.htm May 10 10:15:23 it is charged via usb or wallcharger May 10 10:15:27 and charges usb it self May 10 10:16:30 interesting. May 10 10:16:36 does anyone know how to open the openmoko CAD files?? May 10 10:24:47 does the freerunner have a 3.5mm jack? May 10 10:27:26 Analog wired Headset May 10 10:27:26 There's a four-ring 2.5mm stereo jack which provides connectivity to old-fashioned wired headsets. May 10 10:27:26 The headsets used by Motorola smartphones (A780,A1200, ...) and the V-360 have a compatible configuration. May 10 10:27:26 ring May 10 10:27:26 1(base): GND May 10 10:27:30 2: right out May 10 10:27:32 3: left out May 10 10:27:34 4(tip): mic + HOLD-button(press:short to GND) May 10 10:29:44 dit that answer it spydon? May 10 10:30:07 yeah May 10 10:30:08 thx May 10 10:30:42 no wurries mate May 10 10:31:17 why 2.5 instead of 3.5? :P May 10 10:31:40 or is 2.5 a standard in other countries maybe... ? May 10 10:31:57 its smaler, and a standartd on monterola headsets May 10 10:32:07 okay May 10 10:32:33 openmoko: 03agreen * r70cbb6b6f076 10/gta02-dm2/src/ (dm2.c tests-sn.c): fix-omg-cignal.patch May 10 10:32:35 openmoko: 03agreen * r4c572d9c5133 10/gta02-dm2/data/test_script: fix-wrong-hdq-patch-update-test_script.patch May 10 10:32:36 but is the sound as good as in 3.5? May 10 10:32:48 but i think it has a converter that converts to 2 3,5 jacks May 10 10:32:58 yes the sound is just as good May 10 10:33:07 nice :) May 10 10:33:39 thx, brb May 10 10:34:02 no wurries mate May 10 10:39:08 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe * r9610d847bf1e 10/ (16 files in 4 dirs): Start oeventd by reusing ousaged May 10 11:36:11 off-topic - GSoC - is there a list of projects accepted for each project, I can't find it. May 10 11:37:24 ah - right - got it. May 10 12:40:23 what are the current main issues with freerunner(gsmd,battery,suspend/resume)? May 10 12:40:37 Many are unknown outside of the core team. May 10 12:40:46 As freerunner is not available. May 10 12:43:00 does anybody have prediction when will freerunner be ready for mainstream? I know this is ungrateful to ask. May 10 12:43:15 torpor, are you the same torpor as on EFNet? May 10 12:43:24 mostly it's unrealistic to ask May 10 12:50:33 milo__: it was available a long time ago May 10 12:50:43 milos_: in a galaxy, far, far away May 10 12:51:22 milos_: 2009 for some values of "mainstream" 2010 for others. May 10 12:51:43 (a prediction, I don't work for openmoko, nor am I part of the core team) May 10 12:52:22 SpeedEvil, that's ok :) May 10 12:52:57 2011 for others May 10 12:53:03 if all goes really well. May 10 12:53:16 As in 'you can buy it in some phone shops in some countries' May 10 12:53:27 pesimists all if you ! ;) May 10 12:53:38 of May 10 12:53:42 damn typos May 10 12:54:46 It's going to be a long time before it passes the carrier approval tests, and more than one of them decides to bite. May 10 12:55:55 If you can find a freerunner, or anything else running OM in a orange/3/t-mobile/o2/virgin store on the highstreet any time in 2009, I'll buy it for you. (*) May 10 12:56:02 (*) may not actually be true. May 10 12:56:21 in the UK. May 10 13:00:13 SpeedEvil: oh, for carrier support, I'd go as far as 2010 at the earliest. May 10 13:01:21 I think that's optimistic myself. May 10 13:01:30 But it could happen, if all goes well May 10 13:01:52 2009 - only if something unexpected happens. May 10 13:03:07 isnt freerunner going to be available for purchase soon by devs tho? its in production no? May 10 13:03:20 i presume one ought to be able to try dropping a sim in and using it maybe? May 10 13:03:40 we were talking about mainstream May 10 13:04:01 oh i see, right May 10 13:04:05 when it will be 'stable' enough May 10 13:04:12 milo__: it's more than that. May 10 13:04:40 milos_: it's likely going to need to be stable and usable enough for carrier approval a good 6-12 months at minimum before it's available in shops. May 10 13:05:15 milos_: even assuming that the networks are interested in picking it up. May 10 13:06:01 but the massproduction started yesterday? right? May 10 13:06:46 SpeedEvil, of course May 10 13:07:01 faern, I think not May 10 13:07:40 faern: we don't know. Based on past history, we will only get to know after it completes. May 10 13:08:02 faern, it will be announced May 10 13:08:25 no, I think May 10 13:08:28 that monday May 10 13:08:31 stave May 10 13:08:38 will give some news May 10 13:08:46 i think the fully open thing is a problem for carriers May 10 13:08:47 but what about steve in the community updates? May 10 13:08:53 holycow: perhaps. May 10 13:08:58 they are stuck in the corporate idealized model May 10 13:09:06 they hate the idea that they are just common carriers in reality May 10 13:09:13 faern: read his update message carefully - he never gives an exact date May 10 13:09:15 and want to have toll booths all along the chain May 10 13:09:17 is not easy to change so May 10 13:09:25 the business model May 10 13:09:37 moko totally democratizes cel devices May 10 13:09:37 holycow: I've said in the past that I don't object to lock-in of OM devices - as long as the user is informed. May 10 13:09:58 SpeedEvil: indeed, i don't object to drm as long as the user understands May 10 13:10:20 mmm... according me May 10 13:10:42 if a person start to use DRM, May 10 13:10:43 although, the new free access to all spectrum in the us is the chance moko has at it May 10 13:11:02 SpeedEvil: I have a Linksys WRP400 wireless voip router. They have u-boot in there with a locked console, so you can't hack it without jtag (even if you have a serial port soldered on it). May 10 13:11:10 holycow: quite irrelevant. May 10 13:11:12 unfortunately i don't really think consumers understand anything beyond pricepoint and 'bling' May 10 13:11:36 SpeedEvil: I doubt I could get into it without jtag even if I had their u-boot source (which they must release, and I've alerted gpl-violations.org) May 10 13:11:36 holycow: unless someone purchases the spectrum and opens a net on it. May 10 13:11:41 they did May 10 13:11:43 they haveto open it May 10 13:11:48 its in the contract May 10 13:11:53 remember, google lost that bid? May 10 13:12:11 lost the battle, won the war :-) May 10 13:12:13 holycow: 'open' does not mean 'free' though. May 10 13:12:13 verizon won it i think May 10 13:12:29 which free are you talking about? beer or speech? May 10 13:12:45 money May 10 13:13:05 Building out the networks costs significant amounts of money. May 10 13:13:14 Gotta come from the users. (or the govenment) May 10 13:13:16 openmoko: 03agreen * r15548ee0f3f7 10/gta02-dm2/build: fix-put-scripts-in-home-root.patch May 10 13:13:18 ah, well sure, i pay taxes for roads and social programs, i pay to buy a moko, i pay to access a network ... May 10 13:13:31 well verizon has a coast to coast network already May 10 13:13:39 they just bought licence rights to that spectrum May 10 13:13:59 Adding another frequency to your phone masts, and more backhaul isn't really cheap. May 10 13:14:03 if their recievers can't dynamically access that spectrum i presume they have the capitalization to actually pull it off anyway May 10 13:14:23 hello people May 10 13:14:35 *nod* i'm not thinking its going to be widely available for a while either, but i'm in canada so we won't see such a thing at all i don't think May 10 13:14:53 can someone take a look at this? http://pastebin.org/35051 May 10 13:14:56 From my limited understanding of mobile phone mast technology, it's very unlikely to be able to be done without hardware additions. May 10 13:15:24 SpeedEvil: i think the one thing you point out that free or not is pointless is good tho - afterall the project can always offer locked phones to carriers May 10 13:15:32 its no biggie as they can ultimately be unlocked regardless May 10 13:15:44 SpeedEvil: *nod* that makes sense May 10 13:18:19 why is there a arm-elf target in the icu-native make? May 10 13:33:40 nevermind May 10 14:57:46 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * rc8e8b5660284 10/mickeyterm/TODO: mickeyterm: add more stuff to TODO *cough* May 10 15:49:05 hrm.... May 10 15:49:44 anyone know how I'm supposed to get my public key on the projects box to allow me to access svn over ssh ? May 10 15:50:13 I would just copy it if I could ssh in, but it's public key only for ssh too May 10 15:51:08 ScaredyCat: silly cat May 10 15:51:22 check on the admin interface for your project May 10 15:51:50 yes, and... May 10 15:53:38 My Page -> Account Maintenance May 10 15:53:40 i lie May 10 15:53:56 and at the bottom you should see Shell Account Information May 10 15:54:47 ta... May 10 15:56:53 i just ran make rum-qemu to run openmoko and it is giving me this: s3c_mmci_writew: Bad register 0x38 any ideas how to fix this? May 10 16:23:44 Doobe08: you donn't need to fix this, it's completely normal May 10 16:24:32 it could be fixed in the kernel but nobody cares because it made no problems May 10 16:49:00 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r7e613f31e9b9 10/mickeyterm/ (TODO mickeyterm): mickeyterm: make command history persistent May 10 17:01:02 * * OM Bug 1389 has been created by roland(AT)mxchange.org May 10 17:01:02 * * Package libxsettings 0.11 fails to build May 10 17:01:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1389 May 10 17:32:49 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r8fa65df139d8 10/ (9 files in 3 dirs): python-ophoned: hook new experimental gsm stuff into ophoned May 10 19:01:57 openmoko: 03ANTHONY_CHANG * rf4e29ec8e8b6 10/ (8 files in 3 dirs): DM1 updates May 10 19:27:27 Hi! May 10 19:29:57 Is there a known release-date for the freerunner, or are we all just guessing may? May 10 19:30:51 check community updates May 10 19:31:00 end of this month seems very likely May 10 19:31:18 Alright, thank you May 10 19:42:38 my money has always been on june May 10 19:55:37 shouldnt we change the title to soon now? ^^ May 10 20:01:22 and not a hooker name june either May 10 20:03:41 nice :P May 10 20:49:43 Ref: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates Today is May 10th / 11th May 10 20:51:48 It said production from 9-16 (IIRC) May 10 20:52:09 this does not in itself imply that production will be happening on all those days. May 10 20:52:31 It could be that the start-date range may be the 16th May 10 20:52:37 up to the May 10 20:53:45 SpeedEvil: after that email was one that said: The last Pre MP is done and mass production is slated to start on may 9. May 10 20:56:57 cb22: I'd recommend leaving the topic as "...at some time" until there's confirmation that MP has actually started May 10 20:57:31 mmontour: if you feel that is more suitable, then change it :) May 10 20:58:02 Just my opinion - I don't want to start a topic-editing war May 10 20:58:19 lol, no such thing May 10 20:58:53 i didn't mean my comment in a jesting way, the topic can be set by anyone. i just felt letting people know that MP should have begun was a good idea May 10 21:00:13 ah May 10 21:01:51 * XorA is bored of MP already May 10 21:03:33 Indeed. May 10 21:03:39 We need artisan made phones. May 10 21:03:48 Each fully custom. May 10 21:07:45 painted by country people May 10 21:08:03 or orphaned children May 10 21:08:07 XorA: sssh, stop discussing GTA03 May 10 21:08:24 s/XorA: // May 10 21:08:24 cb22 meant: sssh, stop discussing GTA03 May 10 21:12:01 There will be no GTA02. May 10 21:12:05 There will be no GTA03. May 10 21:12:08 4 May 10 21:12:12 is the next one. May 10 21:12:28 SpeedEvil: actually, GTA03 is the artisan version May 10 21:12:38 hand painted by orphans May 10 21:13:03 hey XorA, balrog-kun May 10 21:13:27 Hey Dodji man, hows the change of hat colour going? May 10 21:13:44 hat colour? is that like bikeshed colour? May 10 21:13:48 hiya Dodji May 10 21:13:53 XorA, well, I won't start before next month May 10 21:14:07 XorA, right now, I am changing the color of the walls of my appartment May 10 21:14:17 XorA, very hard May 10 21:14:18 they GTA number are shifted logically left one bit on every revision May 10 21:14:23 *numbers May 10 21:14:26 Dodji: heh, hopefully not company colours :-) May 10 21:15:05 RedHat red makes angry ;) May 10 21:15:58 XorA, haha, no no. not company colors ;-) May 10 21:16:46 So, since this channel seems to be overflowing with OM employees now, will GTA04 look hot? :) May 10 21:17:35 It will have a casing composed of realistic flame. May 10 21:17:42 so hot you can't handle ;) May 10 21:17:45 wasn't it real flame? May 10 21:18:11 that's why it'll be shipped with asbestos gloves May 10 21:18:12 Using sonys new battery/case technology. May 10 21:21:42 cb22: There is stuff that people are not allowed to tell. May 10 21:23:07 cb22: Ah, and only XorA is still really working for OM. ;) May 10 21:23:26 there are those new exploding batteries May 10 21:23:31 this would be hot May 10 21:23:49 Openmoko GTA04, now with Sony batteries. Too hot to handle. May 10 21:26:05 22:52 < SpeedEvil> this does not in itself imply that production will be happening on all those days. May 10 21:26:44 wtf? my computer is possessed May 10 21:27:06 i didn't touch anything, and that line magically inserted itself May 10 21:27:20 curse you Merovingian! May 10 21:27:25 lol May 10 21:28:09 a gta04 with gfx capabilities of a sony PSP would be nice ;) May 10 21:28:27 or a gta04 with a gfx bus faster then wifi :p May 10 21:28:58 does anyone have GPRS working with AT&T/Cingular? May 10 21:30:18 cb22: which is does! May 10 21:30:55 cb22: the sc6400 has nice graphics accleration stuff on chip eliminating the need for an external chip so graphics bus bandwidth is main memory bus bandwidth May 10 21:31:11 unknown_lamer: now thats more like it :) May 10 21:35:29 and 6410 is pin compat with 3d May 10 21:35:51 * balrog-kun misread this as graphics elimination chip May 10 21:38:22 the apx2500 is probably better for graphics: http://www.nvidia.fr/page/apx_2500.html May 10 21:38:41 but it is far from being open source compatible .. May 10 21:46:38 but watching movies on a mobile is something I'll never understand May 10 21:48:06 If you're stuck on a train, and have no space for a laptop May 10 21:49:40 watching a movie on a little screen and without good sound does not make sense May 10 21:49:53 when I'm stuck on a train, I take a book May 10 21:49:55 Not really May 10 21:50:23 I can watch movies quite nicely on my e51, and thats a tiny screen compared to the neo / freerunner May 10 21:50:48 Phone + Decent A2DP bluetooth headset is quite good May 10 21:51:02 Or phones. May 10 21:51:13 if u just happy slapped someone and want to show your friends in the school playground it works May 10 21:51:40 Well, the screen is the res of standard PAL tv May 10 21:51:53 on a train you should wear a VR helmet May 10 21:52:04 Or go train surfing May 10 21:52:13 those damn japanese copied it from us south africans May 10 21:52:18 * mwester wonders if anyone remembers those things called "books" May 10 21:52:57 books are obsolete media must have moving pictures and audio May 10 21:53:16 whats a book? May 10 21:53:20 XorA: .pdf May 10 21:53:43 I want hyperlinks in text. May 10 21:53:57 I love my backrefernce script for ebooks. May 10 21:54:51 It links back to the first occurrance of a name, if it comes up when it hasn't been used for 20 lines or so. May 10 21:54:52 200 May 10 21:55:31 I wish I had hypertext for my Kierkegaard books May 10 21:55:45 It's great for 'cast of thousands'. May 10 21:55:50 it would make is easier to look up references especially if they linked to the referenced texts (other Kierkegaard works, Hegel, ...) May 10 21:56:20 This was a trivial effrt. May 10 21:57:04 I want my freerunner so I can start working on my CLIM based UI ideas May 10 21:57:23 It simply takes strings of capitalised words not at the beginning of a sentance and links back to the first occurrance, or puts a bookmark at that place for future refs. May 10 21:57:26 I'd like my computing environment to aid my real world existence instead of forcing me to stare at it all day May 10 21:57:35 unknown_lamer: CLIM? May 10 21:57:41 common lisp interface manager May 10 21:57:45 ah May 10 21:58:10 I just got gadget based accepting-values dialogs working and troels henrikson approved of my code woo May 10 21:58:21 np: Michael Jackson - Smooth Climinal. May 10 21:58:56 ~lart darkside nurses May 10 21:58:56 * apt squeezes darkside nurses till darkside nurses turns blue like papa smurf May 10 21:59:19 now if only the gtkairo backend worked more nicely May 10 22:04:56 * zedstar_ moon walks across the channel again in reference to Micheal Jackson May 10 22:05:26 * cb22 directs zedstar_ away from the primary school May 10 22:11:30 heh May 10 22:26:39 im assuming the freerunner will sell out, how long (about) before the next one? May 10 22:28:23 They claim to be going to do ongoing full production May 10 22:29:16 Anyway - they only sell out when they put windows on it. May 10 22:29:50 touché May 10 22:30:54 * XorA hopes FreeRunner sells billions May 10 22:31:00 <_charly_> windows on a phone? that means rebooting instead of phoning... May 10 22:31:03 <_charly_> hi :) May 10 22:31:25 yeah but you've got a nice looking PDA clock May 10 22:31:31 tic tac May 11 00:16:50 Greetings. My current old Nokia phone broke up, and it's time for me to get a new one (with my company's money of course). Considering that Freeruner is not ready yet, what would you propose? I wouldn't want a hobby mobile phone (like the Neo), tho, I'd like a usable feature-rich one. Any propositions? May 11 00:17:45 probably not the best place to ask May 11 00:17:50 what defines features for you? May 11 00:18:22 Diamond encrusted, solid silver case? May 11 00:18:38 anrp: yeah, I know that it's not the best place to ask, but the channel is not really active now so I thought I'd go ahead and ask. May 11 00:18:52 anrp: the definition of features is a good question, actually May 11 00:19:50 I think that I got caught up in my own trap. I'd say to be hacking-friendly, but that would go in the hobby mobile-phone category May 11 00:20:39 hacked iphone? May 11 00:21:05 I am a bit hesitant to Apple products May 11 00:21:25 SpeedEvil: what's your opinion on them? May 11 00:21:48 if you want to develop on a production phone, you basically have to get an apple or a windows mobile May 11 00:21:51 or you have to use java May 11 00:22:05 The hardware is just fine. May 11 00:22:21 you can in theory develop for symbian, but i heard that getting a dev key was getting harder May 11 00:22:23 What they do with software updates is the problematic question. May 11 00:24:14 SpeedEvil: What's the problematic about it? May 11 00:25:19 if you've jailbroken it, it may or may not continue to function after an update May 11 00:26:08 I see May 11 00:26:55 And what about Symbian vs Apple OS that iPhone uses? May 11 00:26:56 And it's not certain that if you do not permit updates, all the functionality will remain. May 11 00:29:55 Aw well, I guess I'll read more about this on teh internets. Thank you for your help. May 11 01:35:52 u can install a toolchain on linux to hack about on the iphone....depends on what u want....it was ?169 in the UK so not a big cost for good hardware May 11 01:45:14 Topic updated based on steve's latest email to the community list **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun May 11 02:59:56 2008