**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat May 17 02:59:57 2008 May 17 03:17:53 is anyone else getting a do_fetch failure on linux-openmoko? May 17 03:17:55 fatal: failed to unpack tree object 927c22fef4b386a419b0ac684815881a7d489775 May 17 03:18:02 NOTE: package linux-openmoko-2_2.6.24+git2+927c22fef4b386a419b0ac684815881a7d489775-r0: task do_fetch: failed May 17 03:18:20 rwhitby: Yes, I get that frequently May 17 03:18:48 All the time. May 17 03:19:14 I get a good download of the git stuff maybe once out of 5 - 20 attempts, over the course of 4 - 8 hours. May 17 03:19:56 I don't know if I've ever got a good version from git - it seems that when it works, it's because I've downloaded a cached tarball from the Openmoko server May 17 03:20:10 It's the single biggest obstacle to building OM anymore; I haven't figured out how to make the thing use the repos it already has downloaded, it insists on re-downloading each and every build... May 17 06:12:18 will "edge" (tmobile) work with the freerunner? May 17 06:12:33 nope, only gprs May 17 06:51:06 <_ectomorp> anyone know how soon after massproduction of the freerunner, it will be available to buy ? May 17 06:55:29 7 days =o May 17 06:55:50 <_ectomorp> omg May 17 06:55:51 <_ectomorp> :) May 17 06:55:54 oh wait May 17 06:56:02 I lied, I don't know :D May 17 06:56:41 <_ectomorp> hehe May 17 06:58:10 <_ectomorp> the 16th was supposed to be the magic date May 17 06:58:12 <_ectomorp> ;) May 17 07:14:04 _ectomorp: the 16th was the last day in the estimated production window May 17 07:14:15 that is only the start of mass production May 17 07:14:59 and it has been stated before, the web shop will not open till all the phones from the first mass production run are at the docks May 17 07:32:32 hello all May 17 07:32:36 how is this phone? May 17 07:54:22 XorA|gone: with the ASU I don't get the libssp errors May 17 10:01:45 * ScaredyCat tests out ASU May 17 10:02:37 hello moko May 17 10:09:31 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r2a6e6ab79628 10/ (6 files in 3 dirs): python-ophoned: start with org.freesmartphone.SIM.StoreMessage. Not working yet, need to improve my parser to handle continuation lines :D May 17 10:09:31 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r60ae64d2d30c 10/setup.py: Merge branch 'master' of git@git.freesmartphone.org:python-ophoned May 17 12:10:08 have the production started? May 17 12:15:59 * SpeedEvil heads to the store to buy May 17 12:16:01 groceries. May 17 12:49:29 hello ! :> May 17 13:00:26 no May 17 13:00:36 * SpeedEvil sighs. May 17 13:07:33 hi everybody May 17 13:07:39 hi tubastian May 17 13:09:13 do you know if the openmoku is allowed to be used in germany? i heard some weird rumors about that it could not be licensed to be used with GSM. May 17 13:12:23 i am not sure about but i thought the gsm part itself is not open source and so usage should be allowed as it is with other smartphone. May 17 13:12:48 As far as I understand it, it's got CE approval May 17 13:13:36 ~lart java with a lightsaber May 17 13:13:36 * apt gives java with a lightsaber an extra strength ACME sleeping pill, sending java with a lightsaber to sleep for 150 years, and awakening to seven strange dwarfs and a large apple May 17 13:14:05 ah, cool... so i must have it :> May 17 13:17:16 any idea how sale will be organised? when do you think one can get one in germany (i read the community updates)? what was it like with the neo 1973? May 17 13:17:32 tubastian: yes - there is a seperate vendor for EU May 17 13:21:14 TriSoft will sell openmoko in europe May 17 13:21:18 there's also one other May 17 13:22:55 ah, thx, i found a reference in the faq, just haven't noticed it before May 17 13:23:39 pulster.de is the second vendor May 17 13:24:11 although i signed up for preorder of freerunner and I haven't got any confirmation so fatr May 17 13:24:12 r May 17 13:24:13 far May 17 13:24:18 typos damn you ! May 17 13:24:33 @TriSoft May 17 13:26:46 oh pulster is also selling? May 17 13:26:58 I thought only trisoft was May 17 13:27:10 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r12b20ab3bc77 10/ (7 files in 3 dirs): May 17 13:27:10 freesmartphone.org: python-ophoned: fix parser to handle continuation lines ('\r\n> ') necessary for storing and sending SMS May 17 13:27:10 freesmartphone.org: org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.StoreMessage() now working. May 17 13:29:22 pulster is 50 euros cheaper, and as far as even trisoft can not guarantee to ship first and i can wait a few days i will try pulster :) May 17 13:30:27 no update from steve yet ! May 17 13:33:24 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/HXD8 May 17 13:33:30 interesting May 17 13:34:08 ccfly: HXD8 == Dash Express May 17 13:34:24 ccfly: http://dash.net/ May 17 13:34:25 ahh May 17 13:34:35 didn't connect those two May 17 13:35:22 ah yes the date May 17 13:35:50 * fulgas Toucher l'horizon - Toucher L'Horizon - Admiral T (x«amarok) May 17 13:37:39 ma benz benz benz May 17 13:38:08 touche pas a ma musique! May 17 13:38:49 tubastian: but how can pulster achieve such a low price? this makes me consider revoking my trisoft order... May 17 13:39:22 Tanuva: what's freerunner at pulsteR? May 17 13:39:31 299€ May 17 13:39:42 nice I'm buying mine at pulster. May 17 13:40:00 i don't know... maybe both buy them for about 200 and pulster just wants to have 100 and trisoft 150 ;) May 17 13:40:28 seems like Ive got to send trisoft a friendly mail.. ;) May 17 13:40:43 o well May 17 13:41:02 I will wait a few months anyway May 17 13:41:26 maybe until first are sold out May 17 13:41:53 np: So-Solid-Crew - 21 seconds to go. May 17 13:42:21 is there a fixed device count in production or do they just produce more when more are bought? May 17 13:42:36 I really hope so May 17 13:42:38 dcordes: the implication has been that more will be produced May 17 13:43:08 k that's good May 17 13:43:53 I hope it will be a huge success with decent media response May 17 13:44:09 I hope not - for the initial release. May 17 13:44:23 As the software is _not_ in a state suitable for the media May 17 13:44:34 that means? May 17 13:44:38 Except the most extreme geeky media. May 17 13:44:50 The phone calls and SMSs mostly OK. May 17 13:45:08 Other features are generally minimally or unimplemented May 17 13:46:43 SpeedEvil: you hope not? May 17 13:47:28 dcordes: a hundred reviews saying 'it's shit' would be a bad thing. May 17 13:48:22 And from a general users point of view, who does not care about opennes, it's lacking in, or impossible to use the features that would make it good. May 17 13:49:09 the iphone has been sold nevertheless ;) May 17 13:49:11 Positioning will be important. Even for those who value openness, it is clearly still a "work in progress" more than a destination at this point in time. May 17 13:50:21 tubastian: I am confused by your comment -- the iphone's user interface is rather well done, and very complete. Comparing the current state of the iphone with OM is rather unfair. May 17 13:50:55 The iphone is orders of magnitude more polished than OM now May 17 13:51:17 If OM was that ready, I wouldn't have hesitations in shouting it from the rooftops. May 17 13:53:24 I want my OM now May 17 13:53:44 I just came out of a near death experience May 17 13:53:51 I want my compensation .. NOW ! May 17 13:54:12 exit May 17 13:54:19 mwester: the iphone has some disadvantages (e.g. storage battery) and people buy anyway... it do not think that the OM must be perfect to be of good standing May 17 13:56:14 In no significant way to end users is the freerunner going to be better than the iphone when it becomes available. May 17 13:56:21 (normal end users) May 17 13:56:42 (barring delays) May 17 13:58:01 presumably not, but i dont care May 17 13:59:33 CVirus: holy crap what happened? May 17 13:59:46 a serious car accident May 17 13:59:54 but I'm fine May 17 13:59:58 that's heavy anybody harmed? May 17 14:00:03 CVirus: oops - I missed that. May 17 14:00:05 dcordes: nope May 17 14:00:10 CVirus: car accidents are not fun. May 17 14:00:16 yeah .. not fun at all May 17 14:00:28 i'm glad everyone's okay May 17 14:00:35 my first car accident ever May 17 14:00:37 I have one track in openstreetmap, that ends with a node tagged 'oops'. May 17 14:00:43 haha May 17 14:00:53 I want my FreeRunner now !! May 17 14:00:55 after having used the ogo ct 17 (ogo.com) with very bad software on it, i do not want a smartphone i cannot control mysqlf May 17 14:01:18 Departed the road at 35MPH at a significant angle, and headed down an embankment decellerating at 1.5G May 17 14:01:48 It seemed to take lots longer than the logs indicate. May 17 14:02:01 And did you come to rest abruptly upon attempting to violate a basic law of physics? May 17 14:02:04 I hate this fucken country ... we called the police and they couldn't make it .. they don't know the fucken way ... so we had to go an pick them up with another car May 17 14:02:36 mwester: fortunately not - ended up going through a barrier - which fortunately was of the swingaway variety May 17 14:02:46 mwester: car was buggered though May 17 14:03:35 Anyone here studying at sweden ? May 17 14:03:42 CVirus: you had to pick up the police? May 17 14:03:59 dcordes: yes ... this is how it works in Egypt May 17 14:04:05 people serve the police May 17 14:04:08 not the other way round May 17 14:04:21 what about the ambulance? May 17 14:04:29 and the police officer was like "I didn't have my pleasure today (hash) ... you guys got any ?" May 17 14:04:45 dcordes: no ambulance .. no one was injured .. even if we asked for an ambulance .. it would reach us after like 60 minutes at least May 17 14:04:56 dcordes: I'm living in the world's worst country May 17 14:05:10 * SpeedEvil passes CVirus burmah. May 17 14:05:10 people all around the world don't know what is REALLY happening here in Egypt May 17 14:05:28 crap you pick up the cops to handle your accident and all they want is dope? May 17 14:05:41 dcordes: exactly May 17 14:05:50 we're being humiliated inside this country May 17 14:06:39 ah and by the way ... in Egypt .. if you get caught importing an devices that has GPS .. you go to jail May 17 14:06:43 GPS is illegal in Egypt May 17 14:06:51 any* May 17 14:07:05 CVirus: out of intereset, why is it illegal? May 17 14:07:19 Terrorist worries? May 17 14:07:53 no ... our social security and intelligence dept. or whatever they call it .. think that GPS can be used illegally May 17 14:07:57 I dunno in what way May 17 14:08:02 CVirus: i recall hearing that you cannot have GPS in russia too, but can't confirm it. May 17 14:08:05 they just think so .. but I'm sure no one knows wtf is it May 17 14:08:05 CVirus: maybe all the maps are wrong May 17 14:08:06 some weird laws...metal detectors are illegal in turkey! May 17 14:08:12 XorA|gone: wtf .. LOL May 17 14:08:13 no May 17 14:08:21 CVirus: and no-one wants you to know about that space time vortex in middle May 17 14:08:30 exactly May 17 14:08:31 zedstar: because they have people digging up heritage and selling it on ebay in a huge way. May 17 14:08:41 yeh that was my plan May 17 14:09:06 one more thing about Egypt ... any police officer has the right to kick you and beat you and jail you even if you've done NOTHING May 17 14:09:06 although UK is heading the way of insane laws May 17 14:09:12 brb .. food May 17 14:09:19 XorA|gone: true May 17 14:09:30 CVirus: we have the same law, its call the Terrorism Act May 17 14:09:46 they're abusing it in here May 17 14:09:48 XorA|gone: they tend to br reluctant to kick prisoners. May 17 14:09:49 XorA|gone: where do you live ? May 17 14:09:54 XorA|gone: they just shoot them. May 17 14:10:01 CVirus: UK May 17 14:10:34 CVirus: they are trying to force through a law that basically "suspected" terrorists can be jailed indefineately with no public evidence May 17 14:10:35 XorA|gone: dude ... there was my friend .. a police officer stopped him and was like "give me money for my breakfast" .. my friend said no ... he was jailed for a month May 17 14:10:39 you mustn't import stones from turkey either May 17 14:10:41 exactly May 17 14:11:07 HUMAN RIGHTS MY ASS May 17 14:11:32 the placed where i lived in turkey had a greek alter on top of a rock which u could probably lift quite easily...wonder how much i could have got on ebay for that :) May 17 14:15:11 the egypt police seems to be sort of a crooked bunch May 17 14:18:29 XorA|gone: the US has one of those terrorism laws May 17 14:18:35 we love it here :-/ May 17 14:23:19 summatusmentis: but yours has a much cooler name! May 17 14:23:50 SpeedEvil: the Freedom Act? May 17 14:37:19 patriot May 17 14:38:26 good old patriot act May 17 14:38:45 can anyone give me a sample output of AT+CNUM May 17 14:38:59 it had those deadlines nobody cared about May 17 14:39:04 (one that does not return a CME ERRROR which happens for most SIMs) May 17 14:39:36 patriotism my ass May 17 14:40:12 5029.985: -> AT+CNUM. May 17 14:40:12 5031.130: <- ..+CME ERROR: 22.. May 17 14:40:20 :( It usually works. May 17 14:40:25 Let me try again. May 17 14:40:41 need to be in PIN READY status because this command reads from the SIM May 17 14:40:52 22 is what i would expect from most SIMs May 17 14:41:05 since SIMs with stored subscriber numbers are _very_ rare May 17 14:41:08 in fact i never seen one :/ May 17 14:41:36 RSTR=`+CNUM: ,"0775753xxxxx",129' May 17 14:41:42 oooh May 17 14:41:44 excellent! May 17 14:41:51 just what i need May 17 14:41:52 similar output on mine May 17 14:41:56 obviously the x's are mine May 17 14:42:07 righto, thanks a lot May 17 14:42:31 np May 17 14:43:15 mickey|cold: note that it's allowed to return multiple lines May 17 14:43:18 all of the same form May 17 14:43:25 yep May 17 14:45:24 mickey|cold: at least it's common int he UK May 17 14:45:46 that's a UK Virgin SIM May 17 14:45:48 STR=`at+cnum' May 17 14:45:48 RSTR=`+CNUM: "LINE 1","447943894922",145' May 17 14:46:00 * ScaredyCat phones SpeedEvil May 17 14:46:03 UK t-mobile May 17 14:46:10 yeah, things like that differ a lot within the world May 17 14:46:20 unfortunately in germany i don't get any cell broadcasts :/ May 17 14:46:20 you have 44 May 17 14:46:24 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NeoSoftwareStack is this in any way precise, or where are my android and evince apps? which is the name of the ipkg package which displays the clock and the utilities-games-tools-all menu at the start desktop ? May 17 14:46:26 I'm roaming atm too May 17 14:46:48 I dunno about cell bcasts when roamong May 17 14:46:53 mickey|cold: you can use phonesim to emulate a cb May 17 14:47:27 balrog-kun: sounds good. i never looked in that. i would need to hook it up to my parsing code May 17 14:48:14 my desktop disappeared, i can bring some menu "aux " and powermngment with the side keys, but the screen is mainly empty: i want my fat clock back May 17 14:48:38 if your gsm daemon works on OM already, you can just use qemu with phonesim May 17 14:48:39 oh, he said 'clock'... May 17 14:49:26 my operator fortunately sends me a CB everytime i reconnect or change cells, so i could use that when implementing CBs in gsmd May 17 14:50:03 grml, so unstable... reinstalling doesnt seem to help...though it helped once, i thought task-openmoko-ui was the name, but that doenst work now.. May 17 14:57:00 balrog-kun: ah, that's handy. May 17 14:57:14 i mean i have all the specs, but i always like to see those messages "in the wild" May 17 14:57:30 but i guess i will get input once my gsm daemon will be deployed ;) May 17 14:58:48 * mwester is interested in an alternate gsm daemon! May 17 14:59:38 balrog-kun: does the modem by default day anything? May 17 14:59:46 balrog-kun:s ay May 17 15:01:14 deploy! deploy! deploy! May 17 15:01:49 hehe May 17 15:01:50 soon May 17 15:02:53 modem communication and parsing core seems rock solid now, just need to add more of the dbus API May 17 15:03:19 * SpeedEvil wonders about suspend May 17 15:03:42 should be on the agenda in one or two weeks May 17 15:04:57 mickey|cold: Is there a defined mechanism yet for how the daemon will enter suspend (and resume)? Or yet to be done? May 17 15:05:10 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r015a81c31161 10/ (TODO ophoned/gsm/mediator.py ophoned/objects.py): python-ophoned: org.freesmartphone.GSM.Device.GetFeatures() implemented. May 17 15:05:32 off the top of my head it goes like that: May 17 15:05:51 odeviced gets a "suspend" query via dbus May 17 15:06:04 requests ophoned to prepare the modem for suspend May 17 15:06:18 then suspends May 17 15:06:30 when it comes back, need to ask why May 17 15:06:38 and if it was the modem, check whether we lost some characters on the way May 17 15:07:26 that's the high level overview, i bet there are some lowlevel nasties embedded there, but i will go to these, when I'm there May 17 15:07:53 Would it be helpful if there was a sysfs API that could inform one if the reason for wakeup was a GSM interrrupt or other? May 17 15:08:20 actually i have been promised the reason would be in cmdline May 17 15:08:26 but this no longer seems to work May 17 15:08:42 we definitely needs this info somewhere May 17 15:08:44 sysfs would be a good place imo May 17 15:09:01 SpeedEvil: youe mean when you receive a cell broadcast? May 17 15:10:02 I was unaware that the cmdline would be altered by resume -- that would require u-boot assistance, I think. May 17 15:10:07 * mwester goes off to google May 17 15:10:33 mwester: we have a bug entry about that May 17 15:10:42 do a bugzilla for 'wakeup' or 'reason' May 17 15:11:20 hmm, fun May 17 15:11:23 quicksearch no longer works May 17 15:11:39 http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=80 May 17 15:15:19 Ah, thanks. May 17 15:17:54 as Harald says this once was working May 17 15:18:03 but back then i never had the chance to test and confirm May 17 15:18:08 i just now that now it's not working May 17 15:18:11 s/now/know/ May 17 15:18:13 mickey|cold meant: i just know that now it's not working May 17 15:35:39 heheh May 17 15:35:52 * ScaredyCat read " mickey|cold meant:" as "mickey|cold meat" May 17 15:36:23 not yet ;) May 17 15:36:31 :) May 17 15:37:06 yeah, at least release the gsm daemon first May 17 15:41:18 or put on a jacket or a sweater. May 17 15:55:50 well May 17 15:55:57 actually i have a cold, it's not that i'm feeling cold ;) May 17 16:00:28 * SpeedEvil passes mickey|cold Norton Antivirus. May 17 16:00:52 heh... May 17 16:00:56 that was lame May 17 16:01:52 so is norton antivirus May 17 16:06:38 Norton Antivirus is awesome! It tells you exactly when your safe or not with this cool yellow button. May 17 16:07:18 the only safe computer is the one which is switched off May 17 16:11:49 Sup3rkiddo: only if the memory is already empty :) May 17 16:11:54 well it's not safe then either.... if you leave it on the train May 17 16:12:15 * Sup3rkiddo didnt get the train part :/ May 17 16:12:42 well, some mofo would probably walk off with it May 17 16:12:54 * ScaredyCat uploads awesome images... May 17 16:12:58 ah right May 17 16:13:42 * ScaredyCat spanks XorA|gone May 17 16:17:32 * abraxa_ hands ScaredyCat a paddle - try this, fellow May 17 16:19:47 ~spank XorA|gone May 17 16:19:47 * apt bends XorA|gone over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on XorA|gone's pasty white buttocks. May 17 16:20:26 past white what! May 17 16:20:32 lol May 17 16:22:42 * abraxa_ wonders how apt knows that XorA|gone is white May 17 16:24:44 he lives in the uk ... May 17 16:25:11 so whatever colour his skin, it's going to be pasty white .. May 17 16:25:25 I'll get me coat May 17 16:28:34 * mwester thinks he would become very wealthy if he could figure out how to export sunlight to the UK. May 17 16:29:17 bend over? May 17 16:29:27 what for ? May 17 16:29:40 exporting sunlight May 17 16:29:56 whatever May 17 16:30:04 * ScaredyCat tries to find someone on the same wavelenght May 17 16:30:24 * ScaredyCat explains to CVirus ... May 17 16:30:37 the sun shines out of mwester's arse May 17 16:32:05 * ScaredyCat watches lots of gstreams plugins go by May 17 16:36:18 arse? ScaredyCat, are you from uk? May 17 16:38:52 they should just sail to somewhere closer to the ecuator line May 17 16:40:29 Sup3rkiddo: yes May 17 16:41:20 muhaha..i am S.M.A.R.D May 17 16:42:01 er..S.M.A.R.T May 17 16:42:27 :-D May 17 16:43:15 hahaha May 17 16:43:25 i know how to spel May 17 16:43:28 :P May 17 16:43:49 * Sup3rkiddo feels guilty for shamelessly stealing Homer Simpson's gags May 17 16:47:08 One very interesting game for the maniacs that are playing strategies or RPG, so if you want to take part in this game skype : patco444 ... http://www.fallensword.com/?ref=1461055 May 17 16:49:42 the only safe computer is the one which is switched off <-- put a stake though it's CPU just to be sure May 17 16:50:24 :P May 17 17:27:44 moin May 17 17:30:27 * hhf423 downloads the scaredycat images from today May 17 17:31:31 well...belongs to openezx but... XMMS is, what crumbles my OM desktop ... or , (very) maybe, one of its libraries May 17 17:31:31 * hhf423 starts flashing May 17 17:31:40 without really being opened May 17 17:32:17 any idea? May 17 17:33:24 is there a dfu_util for Mac OS X? Or just for Linux? May 17 17:36:36 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r8c154ee59a66 10/ophoned/ (gsm/channel.py gsm/mediator.py gsm/unsol.py objects.py): python-ophoned: handle unsolicited message '+CREG', query modem for additional data, then send dbus signal May 17 17:36:58 hhf423: check the community or devel mailing list, someone did it also for MacOSX May 17 17:37:06 enough work for today May 17 17:37:06 cya May 17 17:37:18 right, thanks May 17 17:37:36 hhf423: There's also a video on YouTube that has infos and links on how to flash from a Mac May 17 17:37:50 oh, ok May 17 17:38:15 * hhf423 is finished flashing and boots the neo May 17 17:39:21 I have not followed the lists for a while. is there any expectation when freerunner will be out? May 17 17:39:47 like, weeks now or still months? May 17 17:40:24 they are supposed to have been started the mass production now... May 17 17:40:37 doh, booting has not become faster... May 17 17:41:17 Minor correction, After we complete the test on the Pre MP, if we hit the May 17 17:41:17 Yeild numbers required, we start MP on the 9th at the earliest!. So, I'd put May 17 17:41:17 the window at May 9 to may 16th. Just to be accurate. May 17 17:41:24 by steve in community updates May 17 17:41:56 MP = mass-production May 17 17:43:47 ah, ok. so MP starts about now, then give a week or two for the first phones to come off the plan, then give a week for shipping them to distributors, then give a week for them to start shipping etc. May 17 17:44:24 has the distribution been clarified? it was my understanding that they did not want to do it like last time (i.e. shipping from the US) ? May 17 17:44:39 like, are any distributors known yet? May 17 17:44:50 europe will be served by trisoft and pulster May 17 17:45:01 i wonder, is the battery easily replaced? May 17 17:45:02 ther est of the world will be supplied by openmoko directly May 17 17:46:55 raboof: in freerunner, the battery can be replaced without switching off the phone. given it has a USB connection May 17 17:47:17 ccfly: thanks. do they already take orders? May 17 17:47:26 preorders yes May 17 17:47:59 i didn't get any reply from trisoft as of yet though, so I'm waiting to see what happens when phones start shipping May 17 17:48:24 hhf423: and are replacement batteries generally available? May 17 17:48:49 ccfly: did you preorder yet? May 17 17:49:03 yes May 17 17:49:52 raboof: one of the nokia batteries is somewhat compatible (i.e. is you have a charger for it, it will work in the Neo), but I do not have details for the Freerunner yet May 17 17:50:18 raboof: I assume that the distributors will also have spare batteries May 17 17:50:35 ccfly: why did you choose trisoft over pulster? May 17 17:52:00 At that point I didn't even know they were to distribute frenunners May 17 17:52:16 It was only Trisfot then May 17 17:52:27 so I ordered and stopped thinking about it May 17 17:52:30 pulster: 299 EUR, trisoft 350 EUR May 17 17:53:19 ah, pulster does not yet accept pre-orders May 17 17:53:20 tax inclusive ? May 17 17:53:37 ah yes they do May 17 17:53:42 Alle Preise inkl. Mwst. und zzgl. May 17 17:53:59 well, they do not state the official price yet. they say it might be 299 May 17 17:54:57 right. so I'll just wait until they accept orders May 17 17:55:21 I don't see why not :) May 17 17:56:53 hmm, 299 aim... ordering from there instead of 10-pack direct might be okay May 17 17:57:27 is there a price yet for 10 pack? May 17 17:59:45 it should be 369$ * 10, instead of 399$ * 10 May 17 18:06:22 quite a price May 17 18:07:09 it's not so bad in euro :-) May 17 18:07:25 yes, if you do not buy it in euro May 17 18:08:38 is there any news if there will ever be decent power management on the Neo? May 17 18:17:43 there will be decent power management, altough it will probably take a bit more time to manage all the quirks May 17 18:20:04 I'd like that May 17 18:20:44 no the plan is to have only indecent power management and suffer for ever May 17 18:22:04 balrog-kun: at one point it looked like there was a hardware problem with Neo973 that would prevent it from ever having good power management. So that is now confirmed not the case? May 17 18:24:21 hhf423: well, i hear it should work for up to 12+ hours on a full battery once the software is fixed, but, May 17 18:24:29 anyways, I'd assume that if there is a hardware bug, the answer would then not be: suffer forever, but: doh, buy a freerunner already May 17 18:24:39 hhf423: there is no one in authority to confirm such a thing without actually implementing it May 17 18:25:04 it's only known for sure that no further hardware bug prevents good power managemente once the software is there and it's tested May 17 18:25:49 caesarB the only one working on that? May 17 18:26:37 cesarb: you're not the only one working on power management, right? May 17 18:31:52 Ive searched all over the wiki but havent found anything, now Im here: on the Toolchain page (and the toolchain itself) it says it wants libmokoui2. But where may I get this holy lib? May 17 18:32:02 * hhf423 is flashing a recent qtopia image May 17 18:34:35 * hhf423 hums "again & again" May 17 18:36:47 Tanuva: "it says it wants" - what says that? May 17 18:36:57 om-conf May 17 18:37:03 or something om-conf calls May 17 18:37:11 om-conf is part of the SDK? May 17 18:37:34 it came with the toolchain tar.gz that I was told to download on the Toolchain page May 17 18:38:04 this sounds promising http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA01Standby May 17 18:38:30 Tanuva: Well, I'd assume libmokoui2 ships with the SDK May 17 18:38:54 me too May 17 18:39:10 Did you check the lib directories? May 17 18:39:55 of my own system? yes May 17 18:40:49 Of the SDK, I mean May 17 18:41:01 Maybe some environment variable isn't set properly May 17 18:41:15 Ive built a deb from the toolchain tar.gz like the page says and installed it - and libmokoui2 is mentioned in the prerequisites chapter to be installable using apt, but its not in the repositories I have and I dont know about any om-repo... May 17 18:42:19 so. ahm. which "sdk" do you mean, exactly? May 17 18:43:53 you are evil. like xmms. noone warned me. me sad . go bbq May 17 18:45:07 * Svenasch780 ist beleidigt May 17 18:46:19 * Tanuva kann nich so ganz nachvollziehen, wovon Svenasch780 da redet.... May 17 18:46:30 * hhf423 auch nicht May 17 18:46:52 * balrog-kun volkswagen May 17 18:47:34 xmms on minimal openmoko mit ipkg auf a780 leads to nothing, but a few icons desktop May 17 18:48:11 interessante sprachmischung :) May 17 18:48:33 Svenasch780: we are very sorry for you. Honestly. So sorry. May 17 18:48:38 i think you have the same on the neo, despite i wonder where you got this opkg system from, i have ipkg here May 17 18:49:00 hmm, qtopia does not ask for PIN, whats its problem? May 17 18:50:52 arrr das kann doch nich wahr sein... ich will doch einfach nur die toolchain. es verlangt ein paket, das aber irgendwie verschollen ist... May 17 18:52:10 * hhf423 grows grey hair while the Neo boots May 17 18:53:05 altogether i am not really able to differentiate, what it is all about now: qtopia on FIC Neo??? not OM? i mean, how do i keep from getting offtopic, when there is so many "roms" like GPE, qtopiy, and what is angstrom, or openezx now? qtopia, Openmoko, e-wm, there is matchbox, what about opie, can somebody maybe draw a picture about those MANY layers? or OS, Distros and WMs? *grml* May 17 18:53:58 hhf423: it is just fun, when it boots May 17 18:54:31 if it boots May 17 18:54:39 * hhf423 pulls battery and starts over May 17 18:54:50 isnt it just about the zImage area? as long the ezxboot, or the U-Boot runs, it is all dcent May 17 18:55:48 you mean uImage? May 17 18:58:33 i have a moto here. sorry May 17 19:03:00 * hhf423 pulls battery and starts over with a image from april 21 May 17 19:12:13 hm. seems like I gotta get libmokoui2-dev from svn and build it myself... May 17 19:16:32 boot! May 17 19:17:13 how many times are you booting? May 17 19:17:49 I am trying different snapshots here May 17 19:17:54 Tanuva:did you source the setup ? May 17 19:18:29 . /usr/local/openmoko/arm/setup-env May 17 19:19:02 yes May 17 19:20:02 om-conf even works until the point it checks for libmokoui2 May 17 19:20:07 your config should setup the dependancies... May 17 19:20:14 hrrm May 17 19:21:58 50 May 17 19:22:16 50% of openmoko is build now... May 17 19:22:56 wow, this sucks beyond recognition. in this build from april 21 there is still the "does not ask for pin" bug. May 17 19:23:22 Depends on your POV. May 17 19:23:53 abraxa_: doesn't it always? May 17 19:24:01 hhf423: have you tried any of my recent ones? May 17 19:24:36 ScaredyCat: yes, tried yours from today earlier today. that worked. May 17 19:25:09 ScaredyCat: I am just looking at the April 21 because it is recommended by the guy doing the Snapshot_review May 17 19:25:28 ahh ok... May 17 19:25:38 mine from today are ASU versions May 17 19:26:13 hhf423: try one of the underground images: http://rabenfrost.net/celtune/ (und alles wird gut ;) May 17 19:26:27 say, when I boot the Neo directly from a cold start, it stops on the openmoko logo. If I boot into uboot first after a cold start and then boot from there it works, what can that be? May 17 19:26:52 fgau: good idea. has been a while since I looked at that May 17 19:27:28 you are starting it using the same kernel parameters? May 17 19:29:04 tedo: well, probably my question is: how are the boot parameters different from a cold boot without going through uboot and one with going through uboot? May 17 19:30:19 it depends how you start the kernel from uboot. May 17 19:30:45 coldstart -> uboot uses a startscript were the kernel paramerts are specified May 17 19:30:46 I use the default "boot" menu entry May 17 19:31:49 sry, but i only know redboot for now... May 17 19:32:48 if you know bootloader you know all bootloaders May 17 19:32:49 *g* May 17 19:33:19 but not the menu and nameing etc... btw redboot sucks May 17 19:34:39 the "boot" menu entry does exactly what? botts the kernel with the compiled in parameters or uses the startup script? May 17 19:36:09 I have no idea. But the "boot" menu entry is not a configurable menu entry like the others, so I would assume it does the same like a standard boot after cload start May 17 19:36:29 maybe I should update my uboot May 17 19:36:50 you have jtag? May 17 19:36:56 no May 17 19:37:13 then i won't. You could brick your phone. May 17 19:37:18 I have updated my uboot in the past and did not have problems, though May 17 19:37:34 ok. no risk no fun :) May 17 19:38:05 an update of the uboot config should be sufficient May 17 19:38:17 right, but which part? May 17 19:38:52 the part that contains the startup commands May 17 19:39:17 hhf423: see "bootcmd" and "bootargs_base" May 17 19:39:21 bootcmd=setenv bootargs ${bootargs_base} ${mtdparts}; nand read.e 0x32000000 kernel; bootm 0x32000000 May 17 19:39:34 bootargs_base=rootfstype=jffs2 root=/dev/mtdblock4 console=tty0 loglevel=8 May 17 19:40:12 mtdparts=mtdparts=neo1973-nand:0x00040000(u-boot),0x00004000(u-boot_env),0x00200000(kernel),0x000a0000(splash),0x03d1c000(rootfs) May 17 19:40:24 that should be all which is relevant May 17 19:41:32 Also check "bootdelay", which is how long it will wait before booting if you don't hold down the Aux key May 17 19:41:42 but really, how is booting via uboot(power on with AUX, then select boot) different than booting "cold" (power on and let neo boot) May 17 19:42:17 bootdelay=10 May 17 19:42:34 There was a bug where it would hang on the "cold" boot, but only if the USB cable wasn't plugged in May 17 19:42:56 let me chack that May 17 19:43:39 ok, right. thats what I have. it boots "cold" ok, when the usb is plugged in May 17 19:43:53 so thats a uboot bug? I need a newer version? May 17 19:43:55 that bug is squashed, gone and buried May 17 19:44:09 update your uboot May 17 19:44:30 can you recommend a save version? May 17 19:44:34 safe May 17 19:45:35 I am afraid not, I'm a bit behind on new versions, but I'am using this one: u-boot-gta01bv4-1.3.0+git20071201+svnr3484-r0 May 17 19:45:45 latest one would do I gather May 17 19:46:31 It's a tricky question - the one from around Jan 31 was OK but had a cosmetic issue with the splash screen (IIRC). More recent ones seem to have lost the fix-booting-from-SD patch May 17 19:47:10 My current image is at http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/neo/u-boot-gta01bv4-1.3.3pre+svnr4297+git20080517-r0.bin (tested today on my Neo), but it's not an official build so try it at your own risk May 17 19:47:16 ok, let me be bold May 17 19:47:19 i got an error building an openmoko image using the mokomakefile: May 17 19:47:28 downloading march 31 from celtune May 17 19:47:39 flashing uboot May 17 19:47:46 | /media/projects/projects/moko/build/tmp/cross/lib/gcc/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/4.1.2/../../../../arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/bin/ld: skipping incompatible /usr/lib/libc.so when searching for -lc May 17 19:47:46 | /usr/lib/libc.a: could not read symbols: File format not recognized May 17 19:47:52 I'd prefer to have someone else with a debug board confirm that it's OK before recommending it for general use. It's built from the "u-boot-openmoko_head.bb" recipe in that same dir. May 17 19:47:58 unplugging usb, pulling battery, pressing power May 17 19:48:06 while building libSDL_mixer May 17 19:48:27 ok, that one boots ok now even without usb cable plugged in May 17 19:48:34 why do you need libSDL_mixer? May 17 19:48:44 the sdl-packages in oe are a little bit rotten May 17 19:48:58 i just typed: make openmoko-devel-image May 17 19:49:08 i don't need it really May 17 19:49:44 mmontour: ok, so uboot u-boot-gta01bv4-1.3.1+svnr4257+gitb29661fc1151077776454288051bc9a488351ce8-r3.bin works here May 17 19:50:43 mmontour: yours has a higher version number though? May 17 19:51:15 Mine is from the head of the upstream git tree, plus some of my own patches. May 17 19:52:03 (back in a while - lunchtime) May 17 20:09:22 doh May 17 20:10:02 the celtune underground image only allows characters to be put in in what seems to be the PIN request May 17 20:25:16 heh, so now the april 21 image works May 17 20:27:00 hhf423: I think I'm the only one working on cpufreq, don't know about the other parts of power management (like disabling parts of the chip that aren't being used). The OM team was working on suspend last I looked. May 17 20:27:59 cesarb: if I read http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA01Standby right, then 22+ h of standby are possible at the mo May 17 20:28:18 thats already usable May 17 20:29:04 my minimum requirements are 20h of standby with 2h call time or so. May 17 20:29:22 hhf423: that's acceptable if you only use it as a phone... May 17 20:29:25 as I usually have a power source at night May 17 20:30:07 cesarb: yeah, add 1-2h of usage as GPS, Internet Browsing and PIM... May 17 20:30:10 hhf423: if you want to do some things like data logging (marking your route via GPS) or other things which need CPU (but just very little of it), cpufreq would be the best way May 17 20:31:05 hhf423: AFAIK, you currently need power to the CPU to have the screen on, and even with GTA02 (separate video chip) the resume is too slow for iteractive but low-cpu-using use (web browsing for instance) May 17 20:31:24 I mean, if I play with my iphone a lot, I lasts from dusk till dawn. if I use it a little, it lasts two days. I can live with that. May 17 20:31:26 hhf423: the problem with cpufreq is that you have to modify every. single. driver. May 17 20:31:36 outch May 17 20:31:57 hhf423: (ok, not every driver, only the ones for hardware on the SoC... and the SoC has lots of hardware) May 17 20:32:40 The fun would be reducing the power to the chip with the lower frequencies... I didn't even look at that part of the datasheet yet, but should save a lot of power May 17 20:33:17 hhf423: see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:CesarB/cpufreq for the list of missing drivers May 17 20:34:20 cesarb: poke me sometime to tell me how to fix IIS driver for cpufreq May 17 20:35:07 XorA|gone: I was looking into it some days ago... May 17 20:35:24 XorA|gone: at s3c24xx-i2s.c May 17 20:35:33 cesarb: all it should need is to inform the codec we have a different clock speed May 17 20:35:42 cesarb: as codec generates all other clocks May 17 20:35:48 XorA|gone: unfortunately, the frequency is set elsewhere, and I didn't start tracing the ALSA structure yet :D May 17 20:36:11 neo1973_wm8753.c May 17 20:36:21 in sound/soc/s3c24xx/ May 17 20:37:34 cesarb: codec_dai->dai_ops.set_pll May 17 20:38:11 cesarb: so youll need to store pll_out globally and call than again whenever we speed shift May 17 20:38:30 XorA|gone: you also have to "lock" the frequency so it won't change during play. That would be s3c24xx_i2s_trigger, but if it isn't in process context it would cause problems (the synchronous locking needs process context with no locks held, and it wouldn't surprise me if a ALSA lock is held there, which would then recurse and deadlock) May 17 20:39:02 cesarb: unfortuneatly true on s3c2410 May 17 20:39:19 cesarb: we can fix that on 2442, the audio clock can be made to never change May 17 20:40:35 XorA|gone: hm, then it can't be in s3c24xx_i2s_trigger, it probably would have to be in neo1973_wm8753.c too... since s3c24xx_i2s_trigger is for both... May 17 20:42:02 cesarb: of course, "locking" the frequency means that cpufreq will never work with OM gtk+ software :-( May 17 20:42:17 XorA|gone: you have to lock only during play May 17 20:42:27 cesarb: pulseaudio never stops playing May 17 20:42:34 XorA|gone: what? May 17 20:42:34 cedric: ever May 17 20:42:41 cesarb: ever ever ever May 17 20:42:43 XorA|gone: it wastes cpu generating zeros? May 17 20:42:48 cesarb: exactly May 17 20:42:56 XorA|gone: *headdesk* May 17 20:43:15 brilliant May 17 20:43:31 cesarb: during weekday jump on #alsa-soc sometime, Im sure between lrg and broonie we can figure out something May 17 20:43:49 we should invent a price for that, a medal or so May 17 20:44:24 "medal for most useless waste of cpu-cycles" May 17 20:44:46 I'm starting to figure we will so need powertop on that thing... May 17 20:45:01 hhf423: It'd render as a 3D spherical mist, spinning. May 17 20:45:16 SpeedEvil: hrhrhr May 17 20:45:32 waaahaha, that reminds me... May 17 20:45:52 Umm, no it doesn't. (If alsa generates zeroes while pulseaudio has it open, *shrug*) May 17 20:45:52 * XorA|gone is not impressed with pulse, so if anyone feels like replacing it feel free May 17 20:46:17 when Windows NT came out, it had OpenGL support. In the kernel space. And a screensaver that could do 3D rendering. May 17 20:46:56 mjr: yes it does May 17 20:47:03 so if you used Windows NT as a file and print server and had a open GL screen saver configured, all would crawl to a halt when the screen saver went on... May 17 20:48:00 XorA|gone, well, straceing pulseaudio on my neo not playing anything certainly doesn't show it doing anything else than poll() and gettimeofday() May 17 20:48:38 granted, it's doing too much of the latter... May 17 20:48:40 mjr: well something keeps passing buffers to the driver to play May 17 20:49:23 * XorA|gone bets it just fills the buffer with zero then never tells alsa to stop playing it May 17 20:49:33 but still wasting loads of energy May 17 20:49:44 now that may be... May 17 20:50:09 it used to pause and unpasue, but latest version got rid of that May 17 20:50:59 mmyeah, I suppose if alsa is just playing a preset buffer, I suppose it can generate new zeros there between the poll() calls too May 17 20:51:06 but I wouldn't know about that May 17 20:51:22 cesarb: I wonder how much of a glitch we would get by changing audio clock on the fly May 17 20:51:54 mjr: the buffers alsa uses are circular May 17 20:52:03 yeah May 17 20:52:11 so dont need to generate zeros May 17 20:52:51 I know, but you were the first to talk about generating zeros. Which I denied, but there later acknowledged that it is possible (even if not necessary) May 17 20:52:55 XorA|gone: well, with a somewhat recent userspace (which does play ticky sounds when you touch the screen), most of the time it's a normal tick, but sometimes you get horribly corrupted sound May 17 20:53:04 technically if we didnt care about latency we could actually send codec to sleep when not playing May 17 20:53:31 regardless, certainly it's something to fix if pulse doesn't stop playback... May 17 20:53:32 cesarb: Ive been busy working on ASU so havent tried on gta01 May 17 20:53:57 screen clicks make the sound system 1000 times more complex May 17 20:54:06 XorA|gone: but then, I'm not changing the clock, I'm letting it be wrong... I'd expect the codec to recover from a frequency change with only a small click May 17 20:55:21 * XorA|gone just had a stunning idea for screen clicks cheaply May 17 20:55:48 vibrate? :] May 17 20:56:34 mjr: that or attache a gpio to audio path and use good old zxspectrum type sound May 17 20:56:49 vibrator takes ages to start up from memory May 17 20:57:06 ahh, gpio May 17 20:57:40 would make zxspectrum emulator sound authentic :-) May 17 21:13:38 cesarb: horribly corrupted sound is probably the codec pll running outside of its parameters May 17 21:26:32 ../....///. May 17 22:09:02 hey guyse ! May 17 23:10:56 hi all, are the prices for US market already out? May 17 23:56:12 ScaredyCat: ping May 18 00:39:59 so, when can we start ordering the phone? May 18 00:51:52 hello every body! I have a question ... Is Freerunner released? May 18 00:52:11 No, not yet. May 18 00:52:42 It probably won't be available for a few more weeks. May 18 00:54:54 Where will the phones be shipped from? May 18 00:55:06 (trying to estimate shipping costs) May 18 00:57:08 data_jepp either from a distributor of your choice or by the us hub May 18 00:57:45 the us hub is in freemont May 18 00:57:49 -e May 18 00:59:03 The package is insured? May 18 00:59:42 its regular ups May 18 01:00:02 thanks roh! May 18 01:00:02 yyl: de nada May 18 01:00:03 heard ups is expensive :/ May 18 01:00:43 within the us its quite cheap i must say May 18 01:01:01 Well, im in Norway and im bying 10 phones. May 18 01:01:49 well.. worldwide shipments are always expensive. regardless of the carrier May 18 01:02:06 Thats true ^^ May 18 01:02:23 norway was 'not eu' right? May 18 01:03:09 mhm, norway is not eu. May 18 01:03:21 eu is stupid, we voted no twice already. May 18 01:04:19 Found an shippment estimator for ups, where in us the state? May 18 01:04:39 well.. i do not like some thing about it myself (i am in germany btw).. but schengen, the euro and the trade union (which were there before it was called eu already) as well as the flat tax model for shops withing the eu are really a blessing May 18 01:04:56 fremont, california May 18 01:06:27 The taxes here are wild, just one bottle of vodka can one bring home from travelling. May 18 01:07:30 data_jepp if you ever have seen what madness international shipping and taxes mean, you know why i like that at the eu. May 18 01:08:37 When the phones cross the border i have to pay 25% taxes for importing them, and some extra fees. :/ May 18 01:09:28 on the dis-empowerment of my parliament, the nonexisting judges when it comes to canceling stupid laws some legislative does and so on.. there i agree .. thats stupid May 18 01:09:57 data_jepp well.. there are no import taxes for phones into the eu, just vat. thats something where you have to kick your own politicians into the nuts for May 18 01:10:27 or better nokia who have propably bought this law (this is not a official or citeable statement, just a wild guess) May 18 01:11:10 *ducks* May 18 01:11:49 hehe :D i know. I dont complain. May 18 01:13:34 well.. its not like that most countries have somethign stupid or strange when it comes to local companies.. see the affairs of siemens, samsung and co ;) May 18 01:13:46 snafu May 18 01:16:14 how many kg would 10phones be at? May 18 01:17:01 uuhum.. hard to say. i can only guess something like 5.5kg? May 18 01:17:38 but do not count on that. could be 7. havent seen the _final_ packaging yet May 18 01:17:38 Hard to say, about that probably. Considering like manuals and stuff. May 18 01:18:33 There was no manual shipped with the neo1973, I'll bet there isn't one with the Freerunner, either. May 18 01:18:57 headphones and other stuff then? May 18 01:20:03 Headphone and pouch with orders in a 10-pack. May 18 01:20:20 Now xD May 18 01:20:35 *know May 18 01:29:30 hadnt thought of that. wonder what the tax is here :| May 18 01:30:01 Kamping_Kaiser depends where you are. May 18 01:30:45 roh, funny that :) (Australia.) May 18 01:31:01 heh.. dunno about the tax there.. sorry May 18 01:31:57 hopefully the FTA will help. (i didnt think i'd ever say that) May 18 01:33:21 FTA? May 18 01:33:40 free trade agreement May 18 01:37:29 well.. basically i think that every toll or tax which is not the same for everybody everywhere is somehow wrong or in the way of business May 18 01:38:42 people do not care anymore for countries. they already can communicate with people everywhere, why should they not trade and sell the same way? May 18 01:57:05 I know, damn. About 300$ for 10kg, cant be more than that. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun May 18 02:59:57 2008