**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 29 02:59:56 2008 May 29 03:08:49 yeeee haaaa May 29 03:09:02 the masses May 29 04:11:02 * * OM Bug 1433 has been created by tick(AT)openmoko.com May 29 04:11:03 * * packagekit get updates failed May 29 04:11:04 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1433 May 29 04:34:14 brian_: huh ? May 29 04:34:48 Lots of people in the channel maybe :) May 29 04:35:08 hehe May 29 04:35:12 massive production May 29 04:35:27 what about mass production ? May 29 04:35:28 linux to the masses May 29 04:45:00 hallo May 29 04:45:22 so when might we be able to purchase mokos? soonish yes? May 29 04:56:51 Ok, anyone got a hint why bitbake can't find my bitbake.conf? May 29 04:56:53 http://pastie.caboo.se/205220 May 29 04:57:39 I haven't change any of the config files (only kept the sources dir) May 29 05:00:57 CM: you have a typo in your BBPATH (extra "i" after "openembedded") May 29 05:02:18 no purchasing May 29 05:02:20 ev er! May 29 05:02:25 MUAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! May 29 05:02:46 mmontour: Argh.. Thanks May 29 05:02:47 does that mean the neo is going to be free? May 29 05:02:53 ;-) May 29 05:03:06 it already is free May 29 05:04:07 the hardware isnt May 29 05:05:03 ljp: no - we are just going to put it in a perspex display case and tempt you with it May 29 05:05:06 and make you drool May 29 05:05:08 but refuse to sell it May 29 05:05:09 :) May 29 05:05:15 i can has moko? May 29 05:05:43 raster: too late. i already have a few on my desk May 29 05:06:35 ljp: bastard! give 'em back! we need to put them in perspex cases for tempting! May 29 05:06:37 :) May 29 05:06:56 * rwhitby keeps a tight grip on his gta02 too. May 29 05:07:11 damnit May 29 05:07:24 * CM wants it.. My preciousss May 29 05:07:24 * raster threatens to turn on the global gta02 self-destruct signal May 29 05:07:46 all your mokos are belong to us! May 29 05:08:15 raster: sorry, mine are having driver and hardware issues with that signal May 29 05:09:21 raster: mine has the battery out for charging, so it's not gonna blow today May 29 05:09:52 ljp: the reason we took so long with the freerunner is that we do have a fail-safe self-destruct May 29 05:09:58 we secretly spent all our time in making that work May 29 05:10:09 instead of bothering with any of the rest of the hardware May 29 05:10:11 or drivers May 29 05:10:11 :) May 29 05:10:18 or apps ;-) May 29 05:10:24 doh May 29 05:10:27 rwhitby: our super-secret self-destruct system reauires no battery May 29 05:10:30 muahhahahahahahah! May 29 05:10:55 * rwhitby rewires the battery-less power source for the self-destruct to power the phone instead ... May 29 05:11:06 hahahahah May 29 05:11:18 the aura of steve is protectign you May 29 05:11:29 we have yet to figure out how to penetrate the apple glow May 29 05:11:40 and connects the secret power amplifier and antenna used for remote activation of the self destruct to make it a quad band ... May 29 05:12:07 bah May 29 05:12:12 how do i resolve a conflict' May 29 05:12:22 mtn or git? May 29 05:12:28 (or people?) May 29 05:12:38 geeeet May 29 05:12:54 with people i just use a trout. May 29 05:13:30 aah May 29 05:13:45 git-mergetool May 29 05:15:27 hmm May 29 05:15:36 how do i just fecth a missing file from the upsteram repo May 29 05:17:33 hm.. pull? i mean.. then its local, but not neccessary checked out, right? May 29 05:18:34 git-pull git://git.openmoko.org/git/openmoko.git org.openmoko.asu.dev May 29 05:18:34 fatal: Entry 'conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc' would be overwritten by merge. Cannot merge. May 29 05:18:34 Merge with strategy recursive failed. May 29 05:18:48 i dont even have the file May 29 05:18:56 i just want to pull the upstream one back in May 29 05:19:13 cvs/svn update wou8ld do that May 29 05:19:14 why dont you have that file.. hmmm?? May 29 05:19:15 normally May 29 05:19:22 ljp: merge comflict May 29 05:19:25 i merged the confloict May 29 05:19:27 saved May 29 05:19:30 git-pulled again May 29 05:19:32 bit bitched May 29 05:19:35 git bitched May 29 05:19:43 i went "fuck it" and just want he upstream May 29 05:19:43 bit gitched May 29 05:19:45 so i deleted it May 29 05:20:00 but git dont want to pull me a new copy May 29 05:20:13 revert and pull? May 29 05:20:40 revert kills llocal changes to the repo afaik May 29 05:20:52 local as in changed files, contents. May 29 05:21:08 ummmm May 29 05:21:13 usage: git-revert [options] May 29 05:21:15 whats commit-ish May 29 05:21:19 i never committed any changes May 29 05:21:26 i simply merged locally May 29 05:22:32 i think it means 'same params as git-commit' and thus 'file or path' May 29 05:22:51 git-revert conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc May 29 05:22:51 fatal: Cannot find 'conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc' May 29 05:22:54 definitely nto a file May 29 05:23:01 mmmmh May 29 05:23:21 * raster kicks git May 29 05:23:28 all i want.. is a missing file back that was deleted May 29 05:23:35 how hard does it have to be! May 29 05:23:35 raster: try "git checkout " May 29 05:23:36 :( May 29 05:23:52 aha! May 29 05:23:54 that does it May 29 05:23:58 hjave to checkotu a specific file May 29 05:23:59 tnx! May 29 05:24:24 wtf May 29 05:24:44 I was in a similar situation a few days ago (still mostly a git n00b) May 29 05:24:52 git-pull git://git.openmoko.org/git/openmoko.git org.openmoko.asu.dev May 29 05:24:52 fatal: Entry 'conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc' would be overwritten by merge. Cannot merge. May 29 05:24:52 Merge with strategy recursive failed. May 29 05:25:37 oh now youve done it May 29 05:27:46 yes May 29 05:27:52 entry will be ovewritten with merge May 29 05:28:02 I WANT YOU TO OVERWRITE IT YOU GALOOT! May 29 05:28:05 grrr May 29 05:28:17 o_o May 29 05:28:21 * Sonicadvance scoots away May 29 05:29:49 go on.. say crikey May 29 05:29:59 crickey! May 29 05:30:26 this little fella just loves to tweak me nipples! May 29 05:30:46 bloody ripper May 29 05:31:11 there ya go. thats more what I expected May 29 05:33:00 git-please-just-feckin-work-ok-so-i-can-get-on-with-my-work May 29 05:35:40 ok May 29 05:35:44 haed top edit the file May 29 05:35:47 even tho it had no conflicts May 29 05:35:53 required the timestamp changes.... May 29 06:16:06 openmoko: 03john_lee 07org.openmoko.dev * r72d6cd92ebf7 10/packages/meta/meta-toolchain-openmoko.bb: meta-toolchain-openmoko: add native opkg-cl into toolchain. another May 29 06:26:16 good morning May 29 06:45:26 freesmartphone.org: 03vesa.pikki * r1956da01ed0c 10/src/ (sim.c sms_impl.h): Cleaned pdu parsing May 29 06:58:01 is it just me or does this bear an uncanny resemblance to the freerunner? http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/05/28/helios-ocean-2-exposed/ May 29 06:58:17 visually of course, not capabilities wise May 29 06:59:25 doc|home: looks much better May 29 06:59:26 :) May 29 06:59:32 hah May 29 07:36:55 hmm, did anyone have problems with opkg refusing to upgrade/install packages with 'Nothing to do'? May 29 07:46:27 So, anyone testing a new phone off the production line yet? Do they rock or what? :) May 29 07:48:52 They should ! May 29 08:06:47 gllin is not working.. May 29 08:46:43 morning May 29 10:26:43 greetings.. how can i take out the matchbox from the build? May 29 10:29:35 anyone can suggest me how to take out particular packages from the default build? May 29 10:34:56 i'm doing some gtk-directfb stuff, but i couldnt get it compile nicely.. some packages not needed as well for my case (ie: matchbox, x11), but i couldn't find any info on how to take out those packages from the build. can anyone give me some directions? appreciates for helps May 29 10:36:44 man bitbake May 29 10:37:00 there is an option to create a graph with the dependicies May 29 10:38:01 * * OM Bug 1434 has been created by tick(AT)openmoko.com May 29 10:38:02 * * packagekit send wrong message when md5 miss match May 29 10:38:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1434 May 29 10:44:57 i see.. May 29 10:48:53 but i'm not checking the dependencies now, i want to take it out from the build, where can i do it? /openembedded/conf/distro/include/preferred-om-version.inc? May 29 10:50:49 maybe it compiles X just becouse is required from something else ... May 29 10:51:02 s/from/by& May 29 10:51:03 s/from/by/ May 29 10:51:04 diego_at_work meant: s/by/by& May 29 10:51:13 ... lol May 29 10:58:31 sorry.. i don't get what you mean.. May 29 11:01:05 when you do a bitbake openmoko-devel-image, it reads openmoko-devel-image.bb May 29 11:01:26 and looks if it depends on some other package May 29 11:04:55 i see.. ok, i will try that May 29 11:05:09 smcibpr May 29 11:15:48 freesmartphone.org: 03vesa.pikki * rb15cb47b4f49 10/src/ (8 files): May 29 11:15:48 freesmartphone.org: Only first index of multipart messages are now listed in ListMessages method May 29 11:15:48 freesmartphone.org: RetrieveMessage now returns multipart messages as a whole May 29 11:15:48 freesmartphone.org: RetrieveMessage only accepts multipart message's first index May 29 11:30:05 hello everybody May 29 11:30:22 are there already plans for gta03? May 29 11:31:54 yes May 29 11:32:28 that's really nice May 29 11:32:43 are the new features already agreed upon? May 29 11:33:47 mostly are i believe May 29 11:34:11 same as gta02 but no glamo, a cam, edge and a new case May 29 11:34:44 is there a replacement for glamo? May 29 11:36:05 no, actually not having glamo is a improvment May 29 11:36:21 yes May 29 11:36:48 yes, in retrospective glamo is sort of a disaster May 29 11:41:12 new ts probably - capacitive May 29 11:42:00 just editing the circuit diagrams :-) May 29 11:42:38 openmoko: 03thomas * r4458 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/ (5 files in 2 dirs): opkg: improve opkg_install error reporting and include a check to verify repository signature during install May 29 11:46:08 is capacitive ts "multitouch" compatible? May 29 11:47:14 no exact spec yet May 29 11:49:02 still, i'm very happy you're already working on gta03, keep up the good work ;) May 29 11:49:30 just jouned in... just starting May 29 11:49:44 s/jouned/joined/ May 29 11:49:45 jOERG_rw meant: just joined in... just starting May 29 11:51:12 Yeah, aming towards a GTA03A2, *not* A6 May 29 11:53:25 learning from mistakes :) May 29 11:53:47 LOL! not *my* mistakes May 29 11:54:18 haha nobody said so ;) May 29 11:55:02 honestly, we are trying hard to improve QA and proofreading, applying DRC etc... May 29 11:56:39 how many of you are there working on the hardware? May 29 11:58:06 dunno exactly. quite some guys/girls over in Taipei, and half a dozen developers all ver the world May 29 11:58:23 you're not in taiwan? May 29 11:58:36 Germany right now May 29 11:59:21 i thougt you were all in taipei... May 29 12:00:09 Not at all. Andy is in GB, Werner somewhere southamerica... May 29 12:01:49 colour me old-fashioned, but i imagined you all playing with the prototypes in taipei :) May 29 12:02:04 whatever works i guess :) May 29 12:02:20 never designed a product myself so what would i know :) May 29 12:03:26 for now we ave circuit diagrams to play with. Yea and a few GTA02 to "learn" from, i got with me when i came back 3weeks ago May 29 12:04:34 the components list for the gta03 is final, no? May 29 12:05:09 ...? it is?!? May 29 12:05:16 product spec: YES. individual components: not yet May 29 12:05:39 where do we see the spec? or can we yet? May 29 12:06:03 i guess you'd have some troubles finding an open-friendly gpu May 29 12:06:04 No idea. Ask michel shilo May 29 12:06:34 GTA03 is the same - pretty much - as GTA02 - with the GPU ripped out May 29 12:06:58 so there will be no "replacement" gpu? May 29 12:07:01 completely gone? May 29 12:07:05 igor321: we got rid of glamo, and don't have a new GPU May 29 12:07:07 As I understand it. May 29 12:07:19 I see... hmm May 29 12:07:32 exactly May 29 12:07:56 actually depens... what if glamo proves usefull... May 29 12:08:14 someone might write a decent driver?... May 29 12:08:36 WAAAH, glamo spoils half the device. many reasons like bandwidth etc May 29 12:08:37 There are fundamental hardare programs. May 29 12:08:41 That can't be overcome. May 29 12:08:54 It's connected over a 7M/second bus. May 29 12:09:03 i'm aware of that May 29 12:09:15 That has to be bit-banged - so if you ant 50% CPU, you need to treat it as 3.5M/s May 29 12:09:30 but 7M/sec might be enoug if someone we're to fully utilize glamo May 29 12:09:43 If you need to access the SD too, then it drops to below this. May 29 12:10:02 The glamo is not a very fully featured accelerator alas. May 29 12:10:15 SD is connected via glamo :-((( May 29 12:10:34 yeah, inculding glamo was a bad architectural choice May 29 12:10:43 Well... May 29 12:10:54 It wouldn't have hurt so bad if DMA had worked May 29 12:11:35 so basically, gta03 is gta02 without the glamo, new screen and 3G? May 29 12:11:46 same screen and everything May 29 12:11:53 same chipset May 29 12:12:06 GTA04 is the next hardware major refresh AIUI May 29 12:12:18 so one could suppose it's coming out soon? May 29 12:12:35 i mean, half a year or so? May 29 12:14:03 igor321, don't expect an answer for that question May 29 12:14:54 yeah, it would be stupid to announce a new revision weeks before freerunner debut May 29 12:15:17 i'm stull buying gta02, and i've got a 10pack group to prove it :) May 29 12:15:21 can't wait actually May 29 12:21:41 I don't tink anybody will or should stop to buy GTA02, just to wait for GTA03 ;-) May 29 12:24:08 * summatusmentis doesn't have the money for a GAT02, or the cell coverage to justify it :-/ May 29 12:25:26 i guess it doesn't matter that gta03 design is similar to gta02 May 29 12:25:50 the main value for me is the time between the releases when the little hardware bugs are ironed out May 29 12:26:28 will removing glamo pull some functionality backwards(vid accel)? May 29 12:26:33 a re-design introduces new bugs and you restart the cycle and you're chances of making a successful device are low again May 29 12:26:52 *your May 29 12:27:25 summatusmentis, some operations backwards, others forwards. Tradeoffs. May 29 12:29:47 on the gta04 it will be forward since that new s3c chip has graphics accel on-board already May 29 12:31:16 in terms of opennes it's backwards though May 29 12:31:42 mjr: right, that's sort of what I assumed May 29 12:32:01 basically what you could do inside the gpu without using the bus will go backwards, others forwards May 29 13:15:45 hey.. i hve a gta01 and when trying to run gllin i get "illegal instraction".. can anyone help me out as to why i get this? May 29 13:20:52 probably you're trying the wrong version... May 29 13:21:47 wrong version of kernel? May 29 13:22:06 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gllin May 29 13:26:05 this link does not help me tell what am i doing wrong May 29 13:26:49 probably you are using a old gllin executable on a recent version of openmoko May 29 13:27:34 which openmoko image are you using, and which version of gllin are you using? May 29 13:28:08 i have the same version thats listed in the http://3rdparty.downloads.openmoko.org/gllin/download/?Accept=Accept link May 29 13:28:17 is there a newer version than that? May 29 13:28:37 (and check that you have math coprocessor emulation enabled in kernel, if you have compiled a custom one) May 29 13:29:18 no.. i have flashed from the pre compiled list May 29 13:29:44 is there a way to veryfy that? May 29 13:30:00 it has math coprocessor May 29 13:30:39 how do you start gllin? May 29 13:31:03 ./gllin in the /home/root/gllin/ May 29 13:32:25 do you have the "file" command on your neo? May 29 13:44:50 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * re53e9cf4ffe7 10/conf/distro/include/moko-autorev.inc: [moko-autorev] Set Assassin as AUTOREV May 29 13:54:43 vvb: To check for math-coprocessor emulation look for "NetWinder Floating Point Emulator" string in dmesg. Also, your /home/root/gllin/gllin should be a shell script (with the actual executable as "gllin.real"). May 29 14:00:17 openmoko: 03thomas * r4459 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/ (configure.ac libopkg/opkg.c): opkg: update error handling for opkg_update_pkg in opkg.c and bump version number May 29 14:20:06 is there a gcc opkg for the neo1973 or freerunner? May 29 14:24:27 probably May 29 14:24:38 there was an ipkg once May 29 14:24:55 do you have a url? May 29 14:26:26 * balrog-kun looks up on buildhost May 29 14:27:36 it would be http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/gcc_4.1.2-r12_armv4t.ipk i think May 29 14:28:23 thanks balrog-kun May 29 14:42:11 宠/wm 2 May 29 14:42:14 argh May 29 15:15:41 http://www.spreadfirefox.com/en-US/worldrecord/ May 29 15:16:45 they want to slashdot themselves May 29 15:22:04 evil conspiracy :) May 29 16:22:32 Any word on the sometime USB disconnections while the Neo is charging via USB? May 29 16:23:01 kdean06: works for me May 29 16:23:08 kdean06: Neo or FR? May 29 16:23:10 doesn't haappen here really May 29 16:23:16 SpeedEvil, Flawlessle everytime? May 29 16:23:23 abraxa__, Both, actually. May 29 16:23:25 kdean06: yes, pretty much May 29 16:23:38 Hrm... May 29 16:23:48 SpeedEvil, What distro are you running on your host systems? May 29 16:24:50 Because I've found that both the Freerunner and the 1973 randomly die now and then on Debian Sid/Experimental and my wife made me aware last night of random USB drops and restarts on Ubuntu Gutsy. May 29 16:28:11 kdean06: slackware May 29 16:28:15 Hrm. May 29 16:28:37 kdean06: Wow, your wife uses linux? Congratulations, dude :) May 29 16:28:51 lol May 29 16:29:40 She's not really admining it herself, I set it up and she just uses it. :) May 29 16:30:26 But she's a big fan of being able to make Clearlooks turn purple. And it's easier for me to deal with that any of the alternatives... I feel so out of place tinkering with Windows. :S May 29 16:58:17 Hmm, does anyone have issues compiling openmoko-mediaplayer2? May 29 16:59:50 I'd be surprised if not as I'm getting an error regarding AC_PROG_INTLTOOL (though I have no idea why that is an issue now) May 29 17:01:55 kdean06: I can only think of one occasion that my neo failed to charge properly the whole time it was connected to my Gutsy machine May 29 17:31:19 g'afternoon May 29 18:35:01 ahoi May 29 18:36:45 ~seen thos May 29 18:36:46 thos was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko, 32d 5h 13m ago, saying: 'ScaredyCat, such as?'. May 29 18:36:52 :'( May 29 19:02:37 playya_: Send him a mail? May 29 19:02:48 yes May 29 19:03:04 but generaly he answers really fast May 29 19:06:18 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r84fd202c433f 10/data/themes/zhone.edc: zhone: disable fading transition effect for now May 29 19:14:04 mickey|linuxtag, howdy May 29 19:16:45 heya May 29 19:17:11 sorry for not getting back to ya, but there's hardly network on linuxtag and we're standing 10 hours on the booth every day May 29 19:17:32 hope its fun!...me got scary things to talk about :P May 29 19:17:46 well, it's stress :) May 29 19:18:20 i want to be there too :( May 29 19:18:35 mickey|linuxtag, hehe, understood... May 29 19:18:37 btw. marco did not sent me the promised cards May 29 19:20:53 mickey|linuxtag, hey.. you should go say hello to Jeroen van Meeuwen and Max Spevack at the Fedora booth ;-) May 29 19:21:36 oh and Paul Frields ... May 29 19:21:38 daMaestro: oki, will do May 29 19:22:04 emdete: Do you have a page that lists the major functionality currently in Zad/Underground? May 29 19:22:18 mickey|linuxtag, i was really wanting to bring a freerunner to FUDCon and get a group of contributors interested in maintaining an OM development stack in Fedora May 29 19:23:06 mickey|linuxtag, you might be able to poke people @ LinuxTag re: devel stack; I already have most everything packaged... just need to update it, get it reviewed, etc May 29 19:23:27 wurp2: http://neo1973-germany.de/wiki/Zad ? May 29 19:23:30 oh, ok. i'll mention tht May 29 19:24:24 I had seen that, but I didn't see anything that listed what it does now May 29 19:24:52 any reason why daily images on buildhost stopped on 25 May? May 29 19:25:00 builds are failing now? May 29 19:25:33 iirc, qtopia-x11* or something is currently failing to build May 29 19:25:57 May 28 17:53:35 daMaestro: I tried doing an org.openmoko.asu.dev build earlier today, but it failed on qtopia-phone-x11. The ones on buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/... are probably the best ones you'll find (but I haven't tried them) May 29 19:26:17 On http://neo1973-germany.de/wiki/ZadStatus, I see pylgrim (gps), sms, and dialing and muxing May 29 19:26:29 I assume that it does gprs, since that would be the main point of muxing May 29 19:26:44 wurp2: ah, i see, it's moving... more or less: news feeds are shown; your mails; osm of you current position; transactions on your bank account; hot or not; power state; network switching usb/gprs; May 29 19:27:25 wurp2: also you can dial (manually remambered number); receive calls; no sms for now May 29 19:27:28 transactions on my bank account? Hot or not? May 29 19:27:30 ;-) May 29 19:27:45 Cool May 29 19:27:57 shure (h.o.n.: http://www.hotornot.de/?check=0) May 29 19:28:21 this is zad's view: http://neo1973-germany.de/wiki/ZadStatus#IstheNeohotOrnot May 29 19:28:24 Some of the things that are missing sound like fairly easy things to code... I might pitch in on some of those May 29 19:28:26 qtopia-phone-x11 from org.openmoko.asu.dev fails to build for GTA01. The bitbake recipe from org.openmoko.dev has some fixes, but last time I tried it there were still problems in do_install() May 29 19:28:56 wurp2: yes, i would like to, but i am fighting wth low level stuff. i will get that stable before i start gui again May 29 19:29:04 Yeah, I agree May 29 19:29:20 wurp2: for now i only do gui enhancements when i'm frustrated from low level uglyness ;) May 29 19:29:21 That was NOT a complaint; I was just pleased that there is stuff I could contribute to May 29 19:29:45 wurp2: i would really like to see that but i am to slow :/ May 29 19:30:04 and enough stuff working that I could maybe switch over from OM builds w/o too much pain May 29 19:30:05 wurp2: the dbus-api is still moving and the gui plugin mechanism gets changed too soon May 29 19:30:22 wurp2: what are your ideas? May 29 19:30:29 Is there somewhere I can read about the gui plugin switch? May 29 19:30:39 Well, I would like to put together a media player May 29 19:31:14 wurp2: not now. point is: everything is reduced to yes/no/maybe... to fit everything into that it needs some good ideas... May 29 19:31:41 w/ automated detection of when you connect to a broadband network (or maybe just your home network) and tries to get songs you've requested from your main music list May 29 19:31:56 yes, there was a playlist-thing with gstreamer in a earlier release which has gone when i switched completly to py (that vresion was c) May 29 19:31:59 and deletes songs you've already listened to May 29 19:32:17 syncing... pfew, cool stuff... May 29 19:33:09 What happens if e.g. you just try to opkg install openmoko-terminal? May 29 19:33:31 nothing ;) zad runs fullscreen without a wm for now May 29 19:33:39 ah May 29 19:33:55 But I could probably build a python terminal pretty easily May 29 19:34:16 and: it would install nearly 'world' because i stripped the rootfs down to 39% on a gta01 May 29 19:34:41 Yeah, I thought that would be the case May 29 19:34:42 wurp2: that would be great... as a detail view.. hm. i should get rid of the plugin design soon May 29 19:34:55 it just has to be e... May 29 19:35:19 I dunno anything about e :-) May 29 19:35:27 but, I dunno much about any gui system May 29 19:35:28 wurp2: i didn't either May 29 19:35:47 I just hack stuff out in whichever one is appropriate. I don't do it often enough to really learn one May 29 19:35:53 it's fast and good friends of mine use it. May 29 19:35:58 I do mostly back end work (webservers) May 29 19:36:26 wurp2: you would like the zad design. everything is backend. gui is quit dump May 29 19:36:46 I installed Zad for a while and played with it May 29 19:36:57 all functionality is available through dbus, if its hot or not, osm, whatever May 29 19:36:59 pyneod and pyneog seemed very straightforward May 29 19:37:13 dbus is also kick-ass May 29 19:37:13 if you like you just build your gui in... say... days May 29 19:37:52 what i also did is to keep the api dynamic with maps so you can add params without breaking anything May 29 19:38:12 i have the case right now where i need a new param. i just add it and nobody cares May 29 19:38:27 nobody but the component that uses it in the futre May 29 19:38:59 if you develop alone you cannot fix everything in one moment so i needed some decopling May 29 19:40:03 I see May 29 19:40:25 I assume that only applies to direct api; dbus is still standard param list? May 29 19:40:34 no, opposit May 29 19:40:41 the only downside I see to the map thing is documentation May 29 19:40:46 dbus uses a{sv} May 29 19:40:49 I see May 29 19:41:33 What about the dbus interfaces defined standard like ophoned? May 29 19:42:02 :D May 29 19:42:15 it is to static for my needs May 29 19:42:30 we had lots of discussion with mickey but he did not like my idea May 29 19:42:54 so we split, i made modules to allow separate api May 29 19:43:08 ah, so the differences are only at the dbus interface layer? May 29 19:43:12 Below that code is shared? May 29 19:44:16 that was the plan.. ask mickey, as far as i know he started a own gsmd with some of the ideas of pygsmd May 29 19:44:41 emdete: who is this girl? photoshop or actual neo lover? May 29 19:45:00 mickey|linuxtag: sry, gimp :) May 29 19:46:09 ah, too bad ;) May 29 19:46:14 but now i'm less envious May 29 19:46:16 *g* May 29 19:46:17 yes.. May 29 19:47:18 mickey|linuxtag: theres always josch's openmoko camisole May 29 19:47:33 *nod* May 29 19:47:40 bbiab May 29 19:47:43 * mickey|linuxtag grabs dinner May 29 20:13:26 cb22, you're kind of persistant arent you? :P May 29 20:14:02 cb22, enjoy the *real* benefits of the camisole: http://rabenfrost.net/openmoko/mokoelsa.png May 29 20:16:33 lol. May 29 20:18:30 abraxa_, you dont know... maybe he likes men more? :D May 29 20:19:43 abraxa_ has no room to speak, he is the bdsm slave emo kid after all :p May 29 20:20:30 cb22: I'm not emo. :) May 29 20:21:34 * cb22 runs May 29 20:22:03 anyone have any updates on production testing? May 29 20:23:39 tushyd: they had to respin the freerunner, so it has been delayed until late december 2008 May 29 20:23:50 good news is that software will be far more mature upon release May 29 20:24:13 seriously? December! May 29 20:24:14 man that sucks May 29 20:24:37 i know May 29 20:24:48 you have heard wrong May 29 20:24:57 it's december 2009 instead May 29 20:24:58 what does "respin mean" May 29 20:24:59 :P May 29 20:25:27 it means that there are too many showstopperbugs in the hardware, there is no way to work around the bugs May 29 20:25:36 * daMaestro waits for someone to call bullshit May 29 20:25:43 hehe May 29 20:25:47 more specifically, the graphics components have been deemed too slow May 29 20:25:52 the performance is simply unacceptable May 29 20:26:13 so they are going to replace it with PowerVR chipset (same as iPhone uses actually) May 29 20:26:14 ah May 29 20:26:22 interesting May 29 20:26:22 tushyd, he is joking May 29 20:26:26 oh. May 29 20:26:27 haha May 29 20:26:30 yeah, and the v8 is getting inculded too May 29 20:26:44 no actually they want to include a geforce 9800GT May 29 20:26:54 ha, wouldn't that be nice May 29 20:26:59 hehe May 29 20:27:03 they only had som trouble porting the nvidia driver to armv4t May 29 20:27:09 it's eitehr PowerVR or a Voodoo 2 card with 3DFX acceleration May 29 20:27:30 so december was a joke? May 29 20:27:36 tushyd: It means they are lying to you May 29 20:27:41 and as you mention powervr - i heard it is about being reverse engineered atm May 29 20:27:42 tushyd: im afraid so :( May 29 20:28:01 tushyd, its hopefully to be available next month May 29 20:28:04 freerunner should be out soon, with a slow graphics accelerator May 29 20:28:08 damn I wish I wasn't so gullible May 29 20:28:24 or rather, with insufficient bus bandwidth to the gfx accelerator May 29 20:28:29 tushyd: gullable* May 29 20:28:37 The bandwidth problem to the gfx chip has me considering whether I'm getting FR at all :-( May 29 20:28:50 I have a 1973 already May 29 20:28:56 Qwell: heh May 29 20:29:11 wurp2: :) May 29 20:29:22 Qwell: You can spell it both ways. Like grey and gray May 29 20:29:30 tushyd: actually, you can't. May 29 20:29:40 you were right :p you missed the joke, I think May 29 20:29:56 i for myself will stick with my gta01 but only because i dont need wlan and the accelerometers May 29 20:29:57 haha May 29 20:30:21 oh, so there is a gfx problem? May 29 20:30:29 slightly May 29 20:30:32 There is a bandwidth prob to the gfx chip May 29 20:30:44 as in, bw to the gfx chip is shared with the sd card May 29 20:30:46 but it should be as fast as without acceleration May 29 20:31:03 and is about 1/10th the bw on the 1973 iirc May 29 20:31:14 ah May 29 20:31:40 It sounded as if getting 320x240 video to work on the FR was probably not going to happen May 29 20:31:57 until someone gets accel working, and no one is working on that or forsees a time when they will May 29 20:32:28 josch: The accelerometers looked very cool to me May 29 20:32:33 indeed May 29 20:32:39 josch: wifi is only 'eh' May 29 20:32:41 they are a neat feature May 29 20:32:41 seriously? video playback is pretty standard... I can see people not buying the FR for that reason May 29 20:32:58 tushyd, hardly anybody knows for sure May 29 20:32:59 Mostly I would use wifi at home, and at home I have bluetooth I can use May 29 20:33:05 these are just estimations May 29 20:33:18 raster seemed fairly certain... but I would love to see him be wrong May 29 20:33:27 i myself also heard people that are quite satisfied with the qvga video performance of the freerunner May 29 20:33:38 josch: Are they watching video? May 29 20:33:49 namely the iscsi guy May 29 20:33:53 I haven't been able to play video (the sw has been broken) on the 1973 for months May 29 20:34:00 he sais we can watch youtube vids just fine May 29 20:34:03 wow May 29 20:34:07 very good news! May 29 20:34:16 indeed May 29 20:34:24 youtube is about 160x120, though, no? May 29 20:34:32 not that I really care May 29 20:34:40 dont know May 29 20:34:42 if it looks OK, that's all that matters to me May 29 20:34:45 ask someone who uses it :P May 29 20:35:32 ooh, sweet, looks like freebsd just got per-process routing tables May 29 20:35:42 we should also try to not scare people away by saying things like "video isnt working" if we dont know that for sure May 29 20:36:00 we need a lot of freerunner to be bought from openmoko May 29 20:36:26 so it is profitable for all of use to not spread unverified bad stuff May 29 20:36:32 -not May 29 20:36:42 i'm still going to buy it, no doubt May 29 20:36:42 true May 29 20:36:58 I'm very happy with the 1973 May 29 20:37:01 i would buy it too if you give me the money :P May 29 20:37:03 especially when we can see video working with L4 kernel May 29 20:37:14 yeah L4 is nice May 29 20:37:25 I may or may not get FR, depends on if the sw for one or the other makes my wife happy ;-) May 29 20:37:29 lets port the hurd to it ^^ May 29 20:37:59 Is hurd even done? May 29 20:38:05 hehe May 29 20:38:06 I dunno nuttin about L4 May 29 20:38:15 L4 is a microkernel May 29 20:38:45 I thought they were writing Duke Nukem Forever for Hurd ;-) May 29 20:38:48 theoretically such a kernel should be a bit slow on embedded devices May 29 20:39:11 sure, but how would it affect video, if the issue is bw? May 29 20:39:19 i'm running a bet which one is out first May 29 20:39:38 I'm all for the hurd :D May 29 20:39:45 We should port minux to the freerunner ;) May 29 20:39:57 okay brb naruto May 29 20:40:47 netbsd on freerunner! May 29 20:40:58 have anyone done that? :P May 29 20:41:03 yep May 29 20:41:08 well, on the neo1973 May 29 20:41:11 and in qemu May 29 20:41:58 NetBSD will probably port itself automagically, thats what is usually does... May 29 20:43:17 i've never used netbsd up until a week ago or so. now i'm running it on my eee and on my shiny new server :) May 29 20:43:28 i'm more a freebsd person May 29 20:44:10 AVee: Port itself automagically? May 29 20:44:26 To be honest, a haven't got around to running either one of them. The old debian server just won't die ;) May 29 20:45:15 I've been perfectly happy w/ Linux May 29 20:45:19 wurp2: Sure, it has to be like that, it's the only explanation for their list of supported platforms. Must be magic ;) May 29 20:45:21 Sorry, GNU/Linux ;-) May 29 20:45:46 * mickey|berlin seen l4 today on a Neo May 29 20:45:49 AVee: :-) May 29 20:45:50 demoed by the master himself, Prof. H. May 29 20:46:07 is the l4 geared towards mobile devices? May 29 20:46:07 impressive technology May 29 20:46:12 nothing useful right now, but impressive nonetheless May 29 20:46:31 Yeah, it's really interesting stuff. May 29 20:46:43 ferric: depends. it's for minimizing the TCB May 29 20:46:52 which may be interesting on mobiles May 29 20:46:53 or not May 29 20:47:40 ah. May 29 20:47:54 mickey|berlin, präzise wie ein holzhammer :P May 29 20:48:03 :D May 29 20:48:14 mickey|berlin: you have an FR? May 29 20:48:36 some preMP device is sitting next to me, yes. May 29 20:48:53 All the FR pics I've seen still have two speaker grills May 29 20:48:57 Is that the plan for release? May 29 20:49:03 yep. changing that would have been costly May 29 20:49:21 and it's good for symmetrie May 29 20:49:22 yeah, no big deal. It just threw me off. May 29 20:49:26 for whatever that's worth :D May 29 20:49:38 the speakers on the bottom should be moved up :p May 29 20:49:54 bottom/sides May 29 20:50:27 *shrug* many things will be done, once Om actually does its first ID May 29 20:50:34 ID? May 29 20:50:44 industrial design May 29 20:50:47 ahh May 29 20:50:48 case and stuff May 29 20:50:57 we inherited this one May 29 20:51:07 so it was "take it or no project" May 29 20:51:08 guess what we did :) May 29 20:51:28 so really all complaints about the case is void May 29 20:51:34 kind of ;) May 29 20:51:34 fair May 29 20:53:36 wow May 29 20:53:40 I hadn't heard that before May 29 20:53:57 mickey|berlin: i hear gta04 is going to look hot :) ? May 29 20:54:04 So no choice about screen formfactor May 29 20:54:22 cb22: i have no idea. i sincerely hope so May 29 20:54:25 wurp2: yep May 29 20:54:35 wurp2: actually May 29 20:54:38 wow, 6 hours talk time on the free runner May 29 20:54:56 90% of gta01 was already decided upon when Openmoko started May 29 20:54:56 dunno whether i should tell that May 29 20:55:02 cb22: 6 hours talk time w/ cpu running full speed May 29 20:55:03 so that's our heritage May 29 20:55:07 wurp2: yeah May 29 20:55:12 i find that really impressive May 29 20:55:44 correct me if i'm wrong, but the ti handles encoding of the audio, so the cpu only really needs to be on minimal power? May 29 20:56:10 like 12mhz or so :) May 29 20:56:29 kind of May 29 20:56:40 so with cpufreq really working, there should be plenty of talk time May 29 20:56:49 although the s3c has limits May 29 20:56:57 omap is the clocking wonder May 29 20:57:08 Is anything going on with cpufreq? I haven't heard anything about it in months May 29 20:57:30 or maybe it's only a month May 29 20:57:46 not atm. May 29 20:57:52 :-( May 29 20:57:56 one kernel expert on vacation May 29 20:58:01 other one busy with production testing software May 29 20:58:21 oh, I had the impression cesarb was an indie, not employed by OM May 29 20:58:30 oh, for sure May 29 20:58:34 anyone know where i could find power info about the cpu? May 29 21:00:28 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA01_Power_Management May 29 21:00:34 Of course, it's all about the 01 May 29 21:04:20 based on that page, it seems that having the cpu at 12mhz would add no more than 2 hours to that 6 hour talk time May 29 21:04:54 2 hours is a lot May 29 21:05:05 1/3 May 29 21:05:33 well, this would add less than 1/5 May 29 21:05:44 assuming nothing else is eating power, gsm on a call is 600 mW May 29 21:05:56 cpu idling at 200 MHz is 140 mW May 29 21:06:07 cpu at 12 MHz is 50 mW May 29 21:06:24 So at best, it's a comparison of 740 mW to 650 mW May 29 21:06:45 i'm sure that the 2440 would draw more power though? May 29 21:07:14 Well, anything that draws the same power in both scenarios makes the ratio worse May 29 21:07:28 Sorry, you're comparing cpus May 29 21:07:32 I agree there May 29 21:08:17 It should be better than the 6hrs * 740 / 650 figure for the 2440 May 29 21:08:39 *but*, it will probably be worse than that figure, because that's ignoring any other current draw May 29 21:09:39 Is RAM used much (at all?) during phone calls? May 29 21:10:20 bus power draw is very heavy May 29 21:11:18 random question: the freerunner has 2 sets of ram, one 64mb built into the cpu, and one 64mb chip May 29 21:11:27 could it be 'turned off'? May 29 21:12:18 that's a cool notion May 29 21:12:30 Is the machine smart enough to prefer the built-in ram? May 29 21:12:43 If you're not talking to the stuff on the bus, there's essentially no power draw from what I can tell May 29 21:13:29 So if it prefers the cpu ram (to the extent of moving memory from the other ram if enough remains free on the cpu ram for a long enough period) you would get the same benefit May 29 21:16:12 SpeedEvil: Do you know off the top of your head the bus speed devoted to keeping the screen updated? May 29 21:19:24 wurp2: Personally I'd say that worrying about the little energy the external RAM uses is moot with the glamo in place ;) May 29 21:25:52 The bus uses 600 mW if it's on full speed May 29 21:26:18 I am more worried about the battery usage of the 1973 than FR, too ;-) May 29 21:26:20 at least for now May 29 21:27:27 I'm no longer worried about the 1973's battery usage - I've given up on it (after getting <24 hours even while suspended) May 29 21:29:19 mmontour: You had the battery go dead in less than 24 hours, suspended? May 29 21:30:03 Yes, using one of mwester's kernels. Note that I have old moko1 GSM firmware, which might be part of the problem. May 29 21:30:04 Has anyone talked about what's broken? 'cause something has to be just ignoring the suspend for that to happen, it seems to me May 29 21:30:15 ah, I do have updated firmware May 29 21:30:37 I don't think it had the big power saving update that everyone was talking about 6 months ago, though May 29 21:30:52 afaik, that never came available May 29 21:30:54 There might have been something else still powered up (GPS, audio, etc) - I didn't investigate at all May 29 21:31:58 I'd actually be fine with 16 hours uptime if I could actually get wake on gsm during that time, and ideally get it to wake and take some gps & cell tower readings every few minutes May 29 21:32:10 hrm, maybe even less than that... I need a car charger May 29 21:33:12 I just realized that I've been keeping the gps off lately because I was worried about power May 29 21:33:24 but gps is less than 1/16th the power draw of the rest of the system May 29 21:34:17 I'd like to start playing with finding cell towers, building little super-quick apps to let me bookmark & tag places, location based alerts, etc May 29 21:36:29 Right now I'd settle for good-enough battery life and audio quality to replace my current phone - a Sanyo SCP4000 from around 1999, still on its original battery May 29 21:37:00 it already replaced my previous phone May 29 21:37:13 but it sits on a charger all day at work, and usually as soon as I get home May 29 21:37:21 and I hear complaints about echo :-( May 29 21:37:47 Hopefully the future case-redesign will include better audio isolation between the speaker and the mic May 29 21:38:52 As for charger-all-day - I want the phone to make my life easier. I don't want to have to put in a lot of effort keeping it fed with electrons May 29 21:39:33 I don't consider it a lot of effort May 29 21:39:39 But I understand the sentiment May 29 21:41:06 mmontour: But... I think we are a fairly long way away from the neo making your life easier May 29 21:41:36 The hacker's phone has more bugs than one would see from a polished end-user-oriented phone May 29 21:42:09 I'm having fun hacking on it, more than enough fun to make up for the times when I e.g. have to reboot it because it's forgotten it's supposed to be a cell phone May 29 21:42:23 Well, "easier" in its role as a phone (so I can replace my current one and not have to keep paying for 2 accounts). Hacking is a whole other matter. May 29 21:46:54 Yeah, I just bit the bullet and moved my sim card right away when I got the phone May 29 21:47:00 mostly that has worked out May 29 21:47:22 periodically we seem to get a release that loses track of the cell network & doesn't notice, though, so I don't get any calls :-( May 29 21:48:07 My old one is CDMA, so it's a bit more work to switch. May 29 21:48:28 ah May 29 22:39:06 wurp2: sorry, been busy with work, so I haven't progressed much May 29 23:06:43 NOTE: Fetched git_git.openmoko.org.git.kernel.git.tar.gz from tarball stash, skipping checkout May 29 23:06:43 NOTE: Creating tarball of git repository May 29 23:06:43 fatal: failed to unpack tree object 3bf4cea81fe7dd81cad6f78019383c93653ba7f6 May 29 23:06:55 Has anyone seen/experienced/solved this issue before? May 30 02:27:36 hello May 30 02:27:50 hi May 30 02:30:17 anyone know if the freerunner is going to have camera? May 30 02:30:48 No, it won't May 30 02:31:04 why not? May 30 02:31:15 umm... I'm not sure, cost, I think May 30 02:31:26 or maybe deemed not necessary May 30 02:32:23 well, it's kind of one of those things that has become "normal" for cell phones... think it should have it. May 30 02:33:18 it has been 'normal' for cell phones, I honestly don't know why. You could use a webcam via usb. May 30 02:34:09 hmmm... maybe May 30 02:34:13 without coming off as incredibly rude, because that's not how I mean this, but at this point, does it matter? FreeRunner is in mass production, and there's no camera May 30 02:34:44 I think they don't add it because they should change the case of the phone May 30 02:35:00 but I'm not sure May 30 02:35:20 that seems like a rather minor reason to not do it May 30 02:35:32 I don't honestly know though May 30 02:36:14 It's quite an expensive change - 30-40K or so May 30 02:36:34 Add to that it's a series of new board revs to support the camera May 30 02:37:14 SpeedEvil: any different than the board revs for wifi/accelerometers? May 30 02:39:59 maybe for gta03 May 30 02:40:17 :P May 30 02:41:00 as I understand it, gta03 isn't changing, except to remove the glamo May 30 02:41:10 gta04 is where the hardware revs will be May 30 02:42:30 ok May 30 02:58:24 do you think its a strange choice to use enlightment for the window manager? May 30 02:58:30 instead of matchbox May 30 02:59:13 I don't know what are the avantages of this choice May 30 02:59:41 nope, raster, the main dev for enlightenment works for OM, and I think a lot of efl is used for OM **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri May 30 02:59:57 2008