**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun 05 02:59:57 2008 Jun 05 03:52:31 so many people here... Jun 05 03:53:04 so how does the flux capasitor for the free runner goes? Jun 05 03:53:18 still under heavy development i gues Jun 05 03:53:39 Doesn't help that I kicked it down a flight of stairs Jun 05 03:56:03 openmoko: 03jeremy * r4476 10/developers/jeremy/maniac/src/maniac.c: Jun 05 03:56:03 openmoko: 2008-06-05 Jeremy Chang Jun 05 03:56:03 openmoko: * Implement the function of specifying limited area to test maniac. Jun 05 03:59:13 moo Jun 05 04:11:42 oink Jun 05 04:40:06 good morning Jun 05 04:44:08 good morning. Jun 05 04:44:30 hi Jun 05 04:44:36 the front page of openmoko.com looks promising :) Jun 05 04:45:15 yeah :-D Jun 05 04:45:56 is this big picture clickable ? Jun 05 04:46:21 it will be at some point, but right now it doesn't do anything :/ Jun 05 04:46:50 i see Jun 05 05:22:41 I was unable to compile my Gtk+ project using standalone make file It gives me error message like "Cross compile badness" Jun 05 05:32:08 hello,any use GpsDrive in openmoko? Jun 05 05:32:08 hello,anyone use GpsDrive in openmoko? Jun 05 05:32:08 i think tangoGps's map is very simple and crude, i want to change maps Jun 05 05:32:08 maybe can use google map Jun 05 05:34:47 say, would it be legal under their TOS to show google maps in a browser window, and using javascript, display your position? Jun 05 05:36:24 google maps download local from internet before use it Jun 05 05:36:58 yeah, but thats not really allowed Jun 05 05:40:26 i want to know if GpsDrive can be used in openmoko? Jun 05 06:27:40 xaid: could you spare some time? Jun 05 06:29:25 xaid: i have libsdl-mixer failing because of /usr/lib/libc.a being "incompatible"/"not recognized" http://rafb.net/p/FySIPO42.html Jun 05 07:45:08 !logs Jun 05 07:45:10 Channel logs for #openmoko are archived at: Jun 05 07:45:11 http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/%23openmoko Jun 05 07:45:12 Live-logs are available at Jun 05 07:45:13 http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/livelogs/%23openmoko.livelog Jun 05 07:45:15 See ?? help-logs for usage instructions Jun 05 08:07:59 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * rc2d54e2ae78a 10/odeviced/src/ (helpers.vala service.vala): added get dev_name helper function Jun 05 08:07:59 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * r7fa1328fd4fd 10/odeviced/plugins/backlight/ (backlight.c backlight.conf): device specific configuration for backlight plugin now Jun 05 08:15:24 openmoko: 03graeme 07org.openmoko.dev * rdc93a233186e 10/packages/gypsy/gypsy_svn.bb: [gypsy] needs DEPEND libxslt-native for xsltproc executable Jun 05 08:45:14 Any more updates? Jun 05 08:45:55 shop has been updated Jun 05 08:46:26 Yeah - the link doesn't go anywhere though - y'think that means they're nearly ready? Jun 05 08:46:28 s/shop/om org site Jun 05 08:46:34 * ScaredyCat wonders Jun 05 08:47:33 hehehe : sec_error_revoked_certificate Jun 05 08:48:06 * tomboy64 wonders why site admins apparently can't manage to get a decent certificate setup Jun 05 08:48:21 sometimes they use a root ca that's nowhere listed Jun 05 08:48:27 Strange, isn't it? Jun 05 08:48:40 sometimes it's only www.site.com and site.com is left out ... Jun 05 08:49:04 !ombug 3949 Jun 05 08:49:08 www. sucks Jun 05 08:49:12 * * Bug 3949, Status: Unknown Error () Jun 05 08:49:22 !ombug 1039 Jun 05 08:49:30 * * Bug 1039, Status: Unknown Error () Jun 05 08:49:34 hrrm Jun 05 08:49:48 back-in-the-day called, they want their www. back Jun 05 08:50:36 * tomboy64 sighs Jun 05 08:50:50 www.blah.tld is an alias for blah.tld. Jun 05 08:51:37 not always... Jun 05 08:51:48 in fact you need to configgle it. Jun 05 08:52:00 annoyingly uncommonly Jun 05 08:52:12 (unless using some hosting services which tend to do it for you) Jun 05 08:52:44 ScaredyCat: well, that's part of the work as a site-admin, isn't it? Jun 05 08:52:46 when did the move from bugzilla to trac happen? Jun 05 08:53:04 to configgle it properly, especially if you wanna sell something Jun 05 08:53:27 tomboy64: yes - but assuming that www.blah.net is the same as blah.net is wrong Jun 05 08:53:44 it doesn;t need to be, but *can* be. Jun 05 08:53:49 exactly that's why certs fail then and it shows a warning Jun 05 08:53:58 but for the end-user it's dangerous Jun 05 08:54:12 cause they get accustomed to "just click ok" and it disappears Jun 05 08:54:13 * zash worked at a place where they had no A record for blah.tld Jun 05 08:54:19 that's cos they tried to do it on the cheap or weren't sure how they'd do it. Jun 05 08:55:18 same goes for planet too... somone insists on using https for their blog feed but doesn;t extend the courtesy of paying for the proper cert. Jun 05 08:55:36 As an example, http://lidl.co.uk/ Jun 05 08:55:38 just like direct.om.org :P Jun 05 08:55:43 no worky. Jun 05 08:55:49 needs the www Jun 05 08:55:56 * SpeedEvil stabs. Jun 05 08:56:12 that's perfectly valid SpeedEvil. Jun 05 08:56:15 I know Jun 05 08:56:22 It's also a bit silly. Jun 05 08:56:37 depends on how you look at it... Jun 05 08:56:39 http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/technology_news/4253095.html <--- could someone tell that guy to investigate properly before writing an article? Jun 05 08:56:50 and the worst: it's on om's frontpage! Jun 05 08:57:03 tomboy64: investigate? on a blog? are you serious? Jun 05 08:57:35 that's a news site Jun 05 08:58:18 tomboy64: what's actually incorrect in that? Jun 05 08:59:00 tomboy64: You can make a case with any of the rapid proto machines. Yes, it will be heavy and large due to mechanical strength/flexure of the polymers involved in most. Jun 05 09:00:03 uhm Jun 05 09:00:48 OpenMoko, the Taiwanese manufacturer of the as-yet-unreleased, Linux-based touchscreen Neo 1973 cellphone...... Jun 05 09:00:51 in the first paragraph alone: android is afaik not open-source, openmoko is the distro, not the company Jun 05 09:00:59 well that is kinda wrong at least :) Jun 05 09:01:06 fic's the company Jun 05 09:01:14 tomboy64: om is a company too Jun 05 09:01:15 or the manufacturer Jun 05 09:01:16 the neo was released Jun 05 09:01:17 yeah Jun 05 09:01:35 the software company, the manufacturer is still fic Jun 05 09:02:11 and fic spawned om Jun 05 09:02:12 -ish Jun 05 09:02:12 well, Andriod is not oss , om is both, fic is the parent, it is unreleased as a complete item (you the average joe) Jun 05 09:02:35 /s/you/for/ Jun 05 09:03:29 wut Jun 05 09:03:34 s/wut/what Jun 05 09:03:46 s/$/\// Jun 05 09:03:54 = for a tech-news-website the article is badly investigated. Jun 05 09:04:06 s/zash/nospam/ :-D Jun 05 09:04:35 s/s/noo/ Jun 05 09:04:35 zash meant: noo/$/\// Jun 05 09:04:58 it's also 2 months old Jun 05 09:05:18 s/zash// Jun 05 09:05:50 s/n/m/ Jun 05 09:10:28 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * r6cb468b3feff 10/odeviced/plugins/backlight/ (backlight.c backlight.conf backlight.h backlight.vala): add get_curr_brightness to the backlight plugin Jun 05 09:11:00 Maybe I have low expectations of accuracy in the media. Jun 05 09:13:53 so, does the second version support wifi? Jun 05 09:16:33 yes Jun 05 09:17:15 SpeedEvil: you know when the media talk about somehting you know about, and they get it all wrong and you get pissed off etc... Jun 05 09:17:54 ScaredyCat: yes - I'm just grateful at this point they don't say it's an apple product with windows on, with a holographic keyboard. Jun 05 09:17:55 that's what it's like ALL the time. Jun 05 09:21:13 :( Jun 05 09:21:16 it isn't? Jun 05 09:21:21 * tomboy64 starts crying Jun 05 09:24:20 what's wrong with the media? :) Jun 05 09:24:39 also, I want to ask again, why is the american version a lot cheaper then the european version? Jun 05 09:25:03 it is? Jun 05 09:25:07 isnt that the taxes Jun 05 09:25:44 pretty sure it's not the taxes Jun 05 09:25:46 the media is a sack o shite. Jun 05 09:26:20 the EU has regulations which mean you have to pay for things like disposal Jun 05 09:26:38 yes... but if I remember right it was about 35% price difference... Jun 05 09:26:52 everything you buy now needs weee stuff and crap like that. Jun 05 09:27:08 plus there are regs about replacements n stuff Jun 05 09:27:23 so I have to order the usa version and make a friend ship it to me? ;-) Jun 05 09:27:37 I saw a price of 350 eur (possibly 299) Jun 05 09:27:53 plus the dollar has tanked Jun 05 09:28:21 !google convert 1 usd to eur Jun 05 09:28:23 1 U.S. dollar = 0.648424329 Euros Jun 05 09:28:30 !google convert 1 usd to gbp Jun 05 09:28:30 1 U.S. dollar = 0.51266277 British pounds Jun 05 09:29:04 Daedeloth2: hehehe you don't want that ... Jun 05 09:29:27 Daedeloth2: add another 30% for imports cause of takes and shipping costs Jun 05 09:29:32 the us version operates on different gsm frequencies Jun 05 09:29:33 no? Jun 05 09:29:43 tomboy64: it's a "gift" ;-) Jun 05 09:29:43 oh, that's the other thing Jun 05 09:29:53 ScaredyCat: don't think so :/ Jun 05 09:30:06 gifts are a taxable benefit :) Jun 05 09:30:11 Daedeloth2: if it's new you still have to pay taxes. customs don't care about "gifts" Jun 05 09:30:21 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * re21a88cf6a35 10/odeviced/plugins/backlight/backlight.conf: change sysfs node Jun 05 09:30:24 I thought the quad band was really only triband at any one time Jun 05 09:30:38 ScaredyCat: that is the case Jun 05 09:30:44 tomboy64: so I'll make sure it's opened and scratched ;-) Jun 05 09:30:50 -.- Jun 05 09:30:54 oh my Jun 05 09:30:54 and it's not user upgradable, right? Jun 05 09:31:07 ScaredyCat: no, there is data in the modem which is band dependant Jun 05 09:31:50 XorA: would you have some time to have a look at libsdl-mixer? Jun 05 09:31:58 XorA: not data - hardware Jun 05 09:31:58 tomboy64: nope Jun 05 09:32:01 so you can't use the usa version in europe?! Jun 05 09:32:09 a pity :( Jun 05 09:32:09 SpeedEvil: and calabration data Jun 05 09:32:12 danilos: you can - but it won't work some places Jun 05 09:32:28 XorA: sure - but the hardware isn't easily upgradable Jun 05 09:32:33 daed: Jun 05 09:32:39 are there places that don't support dual or tripple? Jun 05 09:32:51 Daedeloth2: in the EU, 900MHz is required some places, as in the US 850 is Jun 05 09:33:03 Many places are dual frequency. Jun 05 09:33:15 oh, so the usa version has 850 and the europe version has 900? Jun 05 09:33:20 yes Jun 05 09:33:38 why can't they just use all the 4 frequencies? Jun 05 09:33:39 you will get better results with a US in .eu if you use a SIM that is roaming than one that is local Jun 05 09:33:47 Daedeloth2: specification problems Jun 05 09:34:03 Daedeloth2: it was initially specified as a triband Jun 05 09:34:14 Daedeloth2: though the software people thought it was quad Jun 05 09:34:54 neat. Jun 05 09:35:11 communication problems Jun 05 09:35:29 at least the phone works in 99% of the worlds surface, lets just ignore the yanks :-) Jun 05 09:35:57 hehe :) Jun 05 09:36:10 good plan :-D Jun 05 09:36:19 all your mokos belong to us Jun 05 09:36:47 so I can be pretty sure I won't have this phone below 250 euro... damn. I like open source things Jun 05 09:38:58 unlikely... Jun 05 09:39:03 unless you steal one Jun 05 09:41:37 bad plan Jun 05 09:42:30 developers don't get one for free I guess? ;-) Jun 05 09:43:04 that would be expensive... Jun 05 09:43:10 it's a developer device :) Jun 05 09:45:22 mv clit /usr/src Jun 05 09:45:24 oops Jun 05 09:46:04 errm Jun 05 09:46:10 'convert lit' Jun 05 09:46:24 http://www.convertlit.com/download.php Jun 05 09:56:46 SpeedEvil: eherm. Jun 05 09:57:51 illegal e-books, huh Jun 05 09:58:24 balrog-kun: he's playing with his robot girlfriend again. ;) Jun 05 09:59:03 not if he's purchased them surely Jun 05 10:00:20 what format does that amazon reader use by the way? Jun 05 10:00:46 he would have purchased pdf's i'm sure :p Jun 05 10:05:07 btw Jun 05 10:05:16 is there an e-book-reader for the om? Jun 05 10:08:25 there is evince Jun 05 10:08:53 and fbreader Jun 05 10:09:39 Hmmm Jun 05 10:09:43 someone give me a new project Jun 05 10:09:48 a webapp of some sorts. Jun 05 10:09:52 I want to make something Jun 05 10:10:06 to learn more ruby on rails, but i have no ideas for a project Jun 05 10:11:35 how about an app to aggrgate your favourite pr0n sites? Jun 05 10:17:33 flexd: how about designing some software for public transportation? Jun 05 10:18:59 a. woops, thought i wrote this in another channel :/ b. Yeah maybe, i was thinking about that for when i get my freerunner Jun 05 10:19:32 e.g. some kinda route-planner with an xml-database with option for converting it to a compressed binary format later on Jun 05 10:19:34 The busses around here have a GPS system that says which stop is next, and on the stops there is a real time estimated time of arrival. Jun 05 10:19:40 here, too Jun 05 10:19:50 I was thinking of "copying" that, making a system of my own on my phone. Jun 05 10:20:01 me, too Jun 05 10:20:14 Not entirely sure how to implement it though Jun 05 10:20:21 i've done some work on the xml-schema on my other computer yet Jun 05 10:20:25 but im thinking either Python or C++ is the way to go Jun 05 10:20:33 the plans should be displayed as svg Jun 05 10:20:49 i'd say for om it must be a compiled lang Jun 05 10:20:49 SpeedEvil: eherm. Jun 05 10:21:21 tomboy64: why? Python runs excellent on the phones? Jun 05 10:21:28 ls Jun 05 10:21:35 It even comes already installed doesnt it? Jun 05 10:21:39 flexd: there's still speed/memory overhead. Jun 05 10:21:52 hmmm Jun 05 10:22:01 I havent done anything in C++ in a long while though Jun 05 10:22:04 :) Jun 05 10:22:11 and never any Qt stuff :) Jun 05 10:22:11 i thought about learning ada on this project Jun 05 10:22:14 But we'll see. Jun 05 10:22:18 and integrating it with navit Jun 05 10:22:34 Im just hoping compiling/transfering stuff over doesnt take a long time, i want to try stuff instantly after building Jun 05 10:22:44 like "i'm here now. how do i get there asap. and i don't wanna use subways, the weather's too nice for that." Jun 05 10:22:53 hmm Jun 05 10:22:58 with maps and such? Jun 05 10:23:14 Thats a bit more advanced than what i had in mind for my first draft Jun 05 10:23:16 but maybe Jun 05 10:23:19 I was just thinking Jun 05 10:23:21 hehehe Jun 05 10:23:22 I'm here Jun 05 10:23:25 I have 5 spots in a list Jun 05 10:23:47 Which is closest in the direction im moving, how far away is it? and how long will it take me to get there. Jun 05 10:23:55 And what is the designated name for that spot Jun 05 10:24:34 yeah Jun 05 10:25:05 Then i'd just add in the coordinates for the bus stop, and make it so "we're here" when its 5-10m away from that spot (to be able to have some margins) Jun 05 10:25:26 or something, havent really given it any thought lately as im not taking the bus during the summer :p Jun 05 10:25:35 and i'd like to implement stuff like "changing lines as little as possible", "be there asap", "use bus/rails/underground as much as possible" Jun 05 10:25:46 mhm Jun 05 10:26:02 plus the local public service company gives out maps of the stations Jun 05 10:26:20 ah Jun 05 10:26:24 so i'd thought it a nice feat if the map appeared on the screen with the way shown on it - or a little description Jun 05 10:26:48 cause at big stations (namely alexanderplatz here in berlin) you really have to look for your direction ... Jun 05 10:28:13 basically http://www.trafikanten.no/grafikk/sis_pres_web01.swf Jun 05 10:28:42 Hi! Do you know why everything is black in my MokoMakefile based build: http://lion.xaraya.hu/qemu-moko1.png and it works very slow (if at all). Jun 05 10:28:51 * LionKMP noob Jun 05 10:30:17 tomboy64: i guess if you can add routes and stuff yeah Jun 05 10:30:21 LionKMP: QEmu is always slow. Jun 05 10:32:36 and black? Jun 05 10:32:36 that link is in norwegian though, but you get the idea :p Jun 05 10:32:44 Im not sure, not that familiar with it Jun 05 10:33:59 it's the same over here Jun 05 10:34:06 but i'd like to add functionality Jun 05 10:46:17 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r854d280a73a0 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcdates.inc: [srcdate] Update efl Jun 05 10:46:18 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r27497480b0a9 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [illume] Update to r111 Jun 05 10:46:18 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rec9316f5e9df 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [qtopia] Upgrade to get a version with some new dbus interfaces needed for exposure Jun 05 11:34:26 this neo 1973 that's available on the openmoko.com site... Jun 05 11:34:35 does it have the same hardware specs as the gta02? Jun 05 11:37:26 what site? Jun 05 11:38:12 that's sold out Jun 05 11:38:50 * SpeedEvil boggles Jun 05 11:38:55 There is no notice? Jun 05 11:39:07 You have to click through to 'buy now' to get a notice? Jun 05 11:39:10 * SpeedEvil sighs. Jun 05 11:39:26 invalid security certificate for me Jun 05 11:39:30 meh Jun 05 11:39:46 yeah - if you ignore that. Jun 05 11:40:13 What sort of cheap-ass site doesn't buy proper certs is my normal thought on encountering those. Jun 05 11:40:42 same people that still haven't released a phone nearly a year after they said they would? :) Jun 05 11:41:15 the phone was available from July-Nov or so Jun 05 11:42:36 <[BrunoCardoso]> nice Jun 05 11:43:21 <[BrunoCardoso]> we get some %Off to buy 5 or more? Jun 05 11:43:48 * madwoota been lurking for 18months ... waiting ... Jun 05 11:50:26 any swiss around? Jun 05 11:50:47 yes Jun 05 11:51:51 buz, but I'm leaving for lunch right now Jun 05 11:51:57 no hurry Jun 05 12:10:04 re Jun 05 12:18:16 if youclick 'shop' it tells you Jun 05 12:20:49 gah! stupid scrolly window Jun 05 12:21:09 but not if you click products Jun 05 12:22:23 yes, I suppose they could get rid of the buy it now button Jun 05 12:24:17 And delete stuff from 'products' that you can't actually buy. Jun 05 12:24:33 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * ref9ff5b0728a 10/conf/distro/openmoko.conf: [openmoko] Modify the hint of building information. Jun 05 12:29:49 <_xcalie> just spent 2 hours downloading the 2gb vmdk images of ubuntu and openmoko in QEmu to find it was a corrupt zip :/ Jun 05 12:40:34 SpeedEvil, I think a CAcert cert is totally ok for an open source centered product. Jun 05 12:43:17 I trust CAcert more than I trust Verisign ... Jun 05 12:44:57 I agree. Jun 05 13:10:37 * flexd drools at the phone videos Jun 05 13:18:02 flexd, link? Jun 05 13:23:31 Moniker42: No link Jun 05 13:23:38 I just want a freerunner bad :p Jun 05 13:34:47 Hi everyone Jun 05 13:35:06 I thought Steve was going to be testing the phones by now, has there been an update i missed? Jun 05 13:36:30 uhh yeah, there was a video by his kids remember? :P Jun 05 13:36:54 yeah, I know, that was a long time ago, but the community updates state Jun 05 13:37:25 "best case is I would start to test phones around the first of june." Jun 05 13:37:47 there's production updates that say "the factory knocked us back again, try again next week?" Jun 05 13:38:33 :( Jun 05 13:39:04 And one that says 'Today was not an auspicious date to start production, according to the factory astrologer'. Jun 05 13:39:22 :) Jun 05 13:39:32 that funny message i didn't find on the lists :) Jun 05 13:40:06 my current phone is already decomposing for a few weeks, so I hope the yield will be good enough this time Jun 05 13:40:31 i'm beginning to feel like a necrophiliac when i try to send a text message... Jun 05 13:40:44 :/ Jun 05 13:40:50 what's wrong with it? Jun 05 13:41:05 haha yeah. mines got plastic fallen off and the keys have no letters left on them. Jun 05 13:41:07 too cheap and too old :) Jun 05 13:41:50 keypresses are 50% of the time not recognised, sometimes he alteress my ringtone without me knowing about it, and he just doesn't ring/vibrate when he's lazy Jun 05 13:42:40 not that we are sure the freerunner with the original software will be better :-D Jun 05 13:42:44 <||Leto||> talking bout nokia? Jun 05 13:42:55 no, Siemens Jun 05 13:43:15 oh Jun 05 13:43:35 mhmm Jun 05 13:43:49 had both the c25 and the me45 back in the old days Jun 05 13:43:56 when phones were still sturdy Jun 05 13:44:15 both lasted an eternity while nokias broke all around me Jun 05 13:44:40 m55 here, it's damn uglu with all those flashing lights, lookes like a badly tuned car Jun 05 13:44:56 haha Jun 05 13:45:36 when i typed that, my computer speakers had interference of my gsm, and the red leds lighted up!! but i didn't recieve a call or an sms :d Jun 05 13:45:57 it's become sentient Jun 05 13:46:54 with A.I. comes stubbornness and laziness Jun 05 13:47:28 there's only one solution: Jun 05 13:47:30 spank it! Jun 05 13:47:42 you can always use it as a football... Jun 05 13:48:00 i will smash it against the wall when my freerunner arrives :) (after taking out the sim) Jun 05 13:48:08 freerunner? Jun 05 13:48:16 ah, it's called the freerunner. Jun 05 13:48:30 I probably have to stop calling it "that opensource cellphone" Jun 05 13:48:39 :) Jun 05 13:48:55 I'm gonna call it "Edward" Jun 05 13:49:12 what's a moko anyway? Jun 05 13:49:20 mobile... Jun 05 13:49:28 (hope voice recognition comes soon so i can adress him by his name) Jun 05 13:49:30 kone? Jun 05 13:49:34 kommunication Jun 05 13:49:45 (they wanted to be kool :-D) Jun 05 13:49:51 what's wrong with openmoco then? Jun 05 13:49:59 moko is some tattoo from the maories Jun 05 13:50:00 it's not cool Jun 05 13:50:00 it's not german, is it? Jun 05 13:50:07 nope Jun 05 13:50:08 nee, taiwanese Jun 05 13:50:10 english Jun 05 13:50:16 it is brittish? Jun 05 13:50:19 moko - mobile knockout? Jun 05 13:50:42 moko is a tattoo of the maories (they live in new-zeeland) Jun 05 13:51:05 so we pay over 250 euro for a tattoo... which is open... Jun 05 13:51:21 and monstrously komplex Jun 05 13:51:28 this better be twice as good as the iphone... Jun 05 13:51:44 i would say we pay over 300euro's :) Jun 05 13:51:54 hush. I'm blocking that out of my mind. Jun 05 13:51:55 http://www.hero.ac.uk/resources/I_To_moko_go_300.jpg Jun 05 13:52:12 this guy is going to order a USA version. Jun 05 13:52:18 that is ne ugly **** Jun 05 13:52:37 brb, break ;-) Jun 05 13:52:50 and this is how whole openmoko team looks like: http://www.arts.usyd.edu.au/publications/philament/images/issue%205/Fig.1_ta%20moko.jpg Jun 05 13:52:51 ;-) Jun 05 13:52:53 usa versions are 850 band Jun 05 13:53:13 lol Jun 05 13:53:34 mbuf : While compiling gtk based amc code gives error "CROSS COMPILE Badness" sounds like project unablet to get gtk path Any Idea ? Jun 05 13:55:44 correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought a 850MHz band gsm (USA) cannot work on a 900Mhz band (Europe) Jun 05 13:56:05 you are right Jun 05 13:56:19 that is the reason, why there are two types of freerunner Jun 05 13:56:38 850 and 900MHz for USA and rest of the world Jun 05 13:56:39 yeah but daedeloth2 was saying he was going to order a USA version Jun 05 13:57:05 well, maybe he lives in latin america or some other country that uses 850 Jun 05 13:58:33 anyway, let's all hope the FreeRunner/Edward is gonna hit the shelves soon (my money is getting impatient) Jun 05 13:59:19 and money is disappearing :-( Jun 05 13:59:22 end of the year, i thought Jun 05 13:59:23 *my money Jun 05 14:02:09 * anrp vaguely remembers that... last year Jun 05 14:04:08 I don't care much about that 900Mhz frequency, I'm going to use the 1800 anyway Jun 05 14:05:30 also, there must be some way to flash the modem ;-) Jun 05 14:09:06 i am building openmoko image (reason: to enable the mass storage in d FIC neo 101 mobile). I hav got an error http://www.pastebin.org/40806. I m building as a normal user and my distro is: Linux localhost.localdomain 2.6.23.1-42.fc8 #1 SMP Tue Oct 30 13:05:10 EDT 2007 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux. Wat s d error? Jun 05 14:52:24 hmm, reprap news Jun 05 14:58:23 mmmm, reprap Jun 05 15:01:17 * cb22 wants one Jun 05 15:06:17 reprap ftw, i'm halfway done with mine Jun 05 15:18:03 fenfir: Awesome! Jun 05 15:18:09 fenfir: How much did you spend on parts? Jun 05 15:18:43 The number I see going around is $400, but I think that assumes that you know someone to make the reprapable parts Jun 05 15:20:13 And how much time have you invested to get halfway done... Jun 05 15:25:34 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r2975ffa473b9 10/conf/distro/include/moko-autorev.inc: [diversity] Set diversity-nav and diversity-daemon as AUTOREV Jun 05 15:29:17 i opkg install a gpsdrive but i couldn't start it in my gta02 Jun 05 15:29:43 i got lucky and the cartesian robot part i found in a dumpster, so i'm only in for about 50$ right now Jun 05 15:32:02 fenfir: Wow!! Jun 05 15:32:49 liwei: What kind of error? Jun 05 15:33:04 liwei: Not many ppl here will be able to help you with gps on an 02, I don't think Jun 05 15:33:16 liwei: Since almost no one has an 02, and the gps is different from 01 Jun 05 15:34:46 fenfir: So do you really think you'll build it for <$150... Jun 05 15:35:04 fenfir: And do you have a source to get the reprapable parts for free-ish? Jun 05 15:36:00 wurp2: i'm hoping it'll bel <150, but i really don't know i haven't had much time to devote to it lately. Jun 05 15:36:51 wurp2: i do not have a source for the reprapable parts. Jun 05 15:37:17 wurp2: iirc there were some people on the forums that would do them at cost Jun 05 15:37:29 I m building openmoko kernel using moko makefile in fedora(but getting to many errors currently got an errror bcos of SELinux). I was suggested by one my of co-worker to try the same building in Ubuntu or Suse distro. So i would like to know if i can proceed building in fedora? Jun 05 15:38:06 fenfir: OK, I'll stop bugging you about offtopic stuff now. Thanks for a little insight into the process Jun 05 15:38:49 mib_t9l3xh: I know that the process used to work in some versions of some distributions, but not in others without a lot of work Jun 05 15:38:53 hello,anyone use gpsdrive? Jun 05 15:39:30 mib_t9l3xh: If I were you I would try a live cd of other distros & see if they save enough effort to be worth it Jun 05 15:40:04 wurp2:some distributions? Jun 05 15:40:17 wurp2: some distros?? Jun 05 15:40:58 mib_t9l3xh: e.g. I had gcc assembler version troubles with Ubuntu Hardy, but I know some people were building fine with other versions of Ubuntu Jun 05 15:41:49 mib_t9l3xh: Honestly, I tried about 15 times split betwee Ubuntu Hardy and debian 3.something before I gave up doing MokoMakefile Jun 05 15:42:00 Do you have a reason to prefer mokomake to the toolchain? Jun 05 15:42:44 (and I should mention that I do sw dev professionally, and have for many years. On the other hand, I never devoted more than a few hours brain time to getting the build to work) Jun 05 15:43:01 a few hours thinking required to get a build working is a few hours - 30 minutes too much Jun 05 15:43:47 wurp2: Actually i m building openmoko using makefile to make my FIC-neo101 act in mass storage mode? No other preferences. I found no other way to do that... Jun 05 15:44:14 Ok how long did it take for u to build? Jun 05 15:44:46 well, I never did build completely Jun 05 15:44:53 The build is supposed to take about 12 hrs I think Jun 05 15:45:03 Mine never ran for more than about 4 before dying for one reason or another Jun 05 15:45:33 mib_t9l3xh: Can't you compile http://www.linux-usb.org/gadget/file_storage.html for the neo using the toolchain? Jun 05 15:46:52 My building process has completed 600/6400 tasks. K but the also i hav to rmmod g_ether but the current openmoko images hav statically binded the driver int the kernel... Jun 05 15:47:54 wurp2: My building process has completed 600/6400 tasks. K but the also i hav to rmmod g_ether but the current openmoko images hav statically binded the driver int the kernel... Jun 05 15:48:51 mib_t9l3xh: agh. I see. Jun 05 15:49:25 mib_t9l3xh: If you continue to have trouble, you might ask on the list if someone with a working environment can compile the kernel for you w/o the driver Jun 05 15:49:44 I would think people might pitch in to get a mass storage mode working on the neo Jun 05 15:51:20 * BBishop wonders how much would it take on his 2xquad xeon 8x500g raid50 sata2 drives :X Jun 05 15:51:27 wurp2: k if i get the image without the g_ether statically binded, how can i use the toolcahin to get the g_file_storage module? (so that i could use it if get an image lik tat...) Jun 05 15:52:19 gentoo took me about 2 hours .. I doubt moko will take me 12 .. Jun 05 15:53:07 BBishop: It will. You'll run into build errors you'll have to fix ;) Jun 05 15:53:38 oh ye of little faith Jun 05 15:54:05 well .. that shouldn't happen ! Jun 05 15:56:01 BBishop: 12 hours? how long it took for you to build openmoko kernel? did u use any specialized system for the build? Jun 05 15:56:38 BBishop: depends what xeons :p Jun 05 15:56:45 A full "make openmoko-devel-image" takes under 3h on my new PC. It took about 32h on the one I used before that. Jun 05 15:57:21 mmontour *g* Jun 05 15:58:35 mmontour: 3h can i know ur sys config? I m using laptop with AMD turion and 1GB ram... how long it might tak for me? Jun 05 15:59:18 cb22, quad xeons :P 2 x quad ! :D Jun 05 15:59:23 and tons of ram Jun 05 15:59:56 BBishop: thats gonna be my new system in a month :) Jun 05 15:59:59 The fast one is a Core 2 Duo 3GHz, 8G RAM, 2x 750G hard drives. The slow one is a Via C7 1.2 GHz, 512M RAM, 1T HD (my MythTV box) Jun 05 16:01:03 those and a 9800gtx, for only $1000 O-o Jun 05 16:01:15 I have it for like 6 months now :D 2 quad core xeons .. 8x500G in raid 50 sata 2 drives ( dedicated raid controller ) .. 8G ram .. intel from top to bottom :) Jun 05 16:01:51 multicore/multiproc makes sense for building large projects Jun 05 16:01:57 assuming dependancy information is available Jun 05 16:02:11 compiling is pretty much embarassingly parallelizable Jun 05 16:04:56 anrp: as, so all those cores can actually do something? i just wanted to 1-up my friends with quad cores :p Jun 05 16:05:20 The freerunner has 7 cores. Jun 05 16:05:38 yeah, but the bus bandiwdth to each of them is 7mbps Jun 05 16:05:59 or less Jun 05 16:06:04 rule of thumb for compiling is run 1.5*num_cores rounded down in parallel Jun 05 16:06:12 SpeedEvil, hm - main cpu, gps, wifi, gsm, what else has a arm core? Jun 05 16:06:13 run X jobs i mean Jun 05 16:06:23 you get an almost linear speedup Jun 05 16:06:31 thomasg__: GPU Jun 05 16:06:40 Main CPU, GSM serial, GSM realtime, bluetooth, wifi, glamo RISC Jun 05 16:07:07 didn't know that even the bluetooth module has its own arm Jun 05 16:07:08 + GPS = 7 Jun 05 16:07:21 thomasg__: not an arm - it's some sort of processor Jun 05 16:07:27 Oh yeah - I forgot the GPS. Jun 05 16:07:41 ok, however, thought of the bluetooth module to be more "stupid" :) Jun 05 16:07:47 The GSM processors are functional enough that you might get uclinux on it. Jun 05 16:07:57 but I'm unsure if it's got the storage. Jun 05 16:07:58 thomasg__: people have actually written firmware for wifi dongles Jun 05 16:08:13 its open source too, i managed to run it on mine Jun 05 16:08:26 http://prism54.org/freemac.html Jun 05 16:08:26 the bluetooth module - if it was the external memory or flash version is quite powerful on its own; Jun 05 16:08:40 (it's not - it's ROM) Jun 05 16:09:49 SpeedEvil: is a project like the one i mentioned above even legal? Jun 05 16:10:14 cb22: in the UK, the legislation I've spoke about before was GSM only. Jun 05 16:10:14 depends I'd say Jun 05 16:11:05 cb22: and it's in fact not illegal under that legislation unless it was being used for criminal purposes, or changing the IMEI/... Jun 05 16:11:31 IIRC producing a tool that changes the IMEI, and changing the IMEI are both offences. Jun 05 16:12:38 speaking of IMEIs, what would happen if two devices with the same, were connected to one network? Jun 05 16:13:07 It used to mostly work, but the network got confused when the phone rang. Jun 05 16:13:21 I'd really need to try this out ! :)) Jun 05 16:13:28 2 IMEI's can't ocupy the same space - the planet will explode Jun 05 16:13:36 * cb22 eyes the two old motorolas he has lying around Jun 05 16:13:41 I'm not sure what actually happens now, I know that it is tracked by the network Jun 05 16:13:44 if you look hard, you can find tools to change the imei Jun 05 16:13:50 you don't have to look too hard, actually Jun 05 16:14:03 anrp: with motos you dont need to look further then google Jun 05 16:14:13 its those damn russian hackers Jun 05 16:14:49 hehe Jun 05 16:25:32 network doesnt care about IMEI Jun 05 16:25:39 there are a whole lot of duplicate ones Jun 05 16:27:07 that's not quite true Jun 05 16:27:11 they do blacklisting Jun 05 16:27:19 and i have observed it twice until today Jun 05 16:27:26 nibbler_de: evern blacklisting doesnt seem to be long term Jun 05 16:27:42 nibbler_de: and AFAIK doesnt work if the SIM is roaming Jun 05 16:28:01 XorA: there are certain terminals which are blacklisted in certain networks Jun 05 16:28:50 certain siemens P1, terminals with imei=00000000000000 or 12345... Jun 05 16:28:54 but in 99.9999% of cases IMEI is illelevent Jun 05 16:29:08 nibbler_de: IMEI=0000000000000 works fine here Jun 05 16:29:11 i'd even guess >99.9999%, yes. Jun 05 16:29:46 XorA: depends on the network - a friend of mine got a preproduction siemens gigaset gsm (desk phone with gsm part) with imei=000000... doesn't work in certain networks Jun 05 16:30:01 nibbler_de: all the original batch freerunners had 000000000 Jun 05 16:30:12 nibbler_de: and I dont think any of the devs ever had problems :-) Jun 05 16:30:27 XorA: emdete did Jun 05 16:30:39 yeah - well - depends on how well run the networks the people use this phones with are run Jun 05 16:30:58 vodafone does not accept 00000000 Jun 05 16:31:03 all others seem to do Jun 05 16:31:09 at least here in .de Jun 05 16:31:11 hi mickeyl Jun 05 16:31:24 mickeyl: in deed. Jun 05 16:31:32 * XorA wishes he still had access to the O2 testing network Jun 05 16:31:48 with the gigaset (back then) d1 worked, d2 didn't Jun 05 16:31:50 * ScaredyCat throws water overs XorA... Jun 05 16:31:53 does htat help? Jun 05 16:32:03 07.07 question... it looks like you can't put a call on hold and initiate another, right? Jun 05 16:32:06 +~~~~~+ Jun 05 16:32:08 ScaredyCat: nope, free phonecalls anywhere in the world was good Jun 05 16:32:09 but vodafone in .de also operates a blacklist for stolen phones - so they seem to care about certain parts of infrastructure Jun 05 16:32:11 i can only put a call on hold while another is waiting Jun 05 16:32:11 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Jun 05 16:32:28 +-- Jun 05 16:32:37 * ScaredyCat slaps woglinde Jun 05 16:32:37 XorA: good for you - certainly not good for o2, i guess ;) Jun 05 16:32:58 nibbler_de: they gave us the numbers for SIM testing :-) Jun 05 16:33:03 fhjchffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff47,0 Jun 05 16:33:09 XorA: ah, ok ;-) Jun 05 16:33:31 * nibbler_de love to have his own apn for testing purposes Jun 05 16:33:36 nibbler_de: but a physical burglary someone stole the little black book from their office and the network was shut down Jun 05 16:34:09 ouch :( Jun 05 16:34:18 bummer. i could use a BTS here for ophoned as well Jun 05 16:34:21 *shrug* Jun 05 16:37:25 hmm fun Jun 05 16:39:00 dcordes: to answer your question from yesterday(?): yes, bread-n-butter is buildable right now. bitbake fso-image to get an impression (very early, don't be disappointed :) Jun 05 16:39:28 mickeyl: what size are they? Jun 05 16:39:37 and: do they work with qvga? Jun 05 16:40:18 size... 30MB or so Jun 05 16:40:29 qvga pretty sure. if not, it's a one liner to remove Jun 05 16:41:19 ok sounds that sounds suitable for kaiser. 30MB gzipped or extracted? Jun 05 16:41:29 hmm, let me check Jun 05 16:41:33 ok thanks Jun 05 16:41:39 root@om-gta02:/local/pkg/fso/python-ophoned/ophoned# df -h Jun 05 16:41:39 Filesystem Size Used Available Use% Mounted on Jun 05 16:41:39 rootfs 246.6M 37.8M 208.9M 15% / Jun 05 16:41:45 37 extracted Jun 05 16:42:21 newsflash Jun 05 16:42:26 The latest update I have from the factory indicates that mass Production Jun 05 16:42:34 that means running the SMT line without stopping to check stuff every two Jun 05 16:42:43 aye caramba Jun 05 16:42:46 seconds) has been CLEARED TO START. Jun 05 16:43:04 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-June/018575.html Jun 05 16:43:35 mickeyl: ok that's definetly worth a try. the you-know-who initrds we boot atm are almost that size in .gpio.gz Jun 05 16:43:49 hehe Jun 05 16:44:00 cpio.gz of course Jun 05 16:44:03 ya, i'd love to see how that performs on the kaiser Jun 05 16:44:10 it probably runs circles around the Neo Jun 05 16:44:13 :D Jun 05 16:44:24 ok will report when I built (if it built) and I tried and boot Jun 05 16:44:37 coolies Jun 05 16:44:45 nice interview btw :) Jun 05 16:45:25 linuxmagazin? Jun 05 16:45:45 * XorA wonders what happens when all OM employees start buying kaisers Jun 05 16:52:21 mickeyl: yep Jun 05 16:53:30 right, that was quite nice Jun 05 16:54:19 mickeyl: regarding the bts... ask harald :> Jun 05 16:54:58 i know :D Jun 05 16:55:02 but it's a long way Jun 05 16:55:26 mickeyl, need one? get a truck and come over :) Jun 05 16:55:42 heh Jun 05 16:55:46 well Jun 05 16:56:09 but you'd need a bsc too, and they are harder to get, as there are no complete spare ones :) Jun 05 16:56:47 fair enough. i'll see how far i come with testing with four handsets and a landline Jun 05 16:56:49 http://www.cree.com Jun 05 16:56:51 oops Jun 05 16:56:55 nah - one can do that in software. python. import gsm done/done. Jun 05 16:57:24 i guess once the software is in the field, I'll get enough reports about corner cases and stuff Jun 05 16:59:01 * ScaredyCat missed soemthing, what are 'kaisers' ? Jun 05 16:59:48 kaiser? sounds like an htc handset Jun 05 16:59:55 yup HTC Kaiser is TyTN II Jun 05 17:00:02 it is? Jun 05 17:00:23 or P4550 Jun 05 17:00:28 it is not want you want to buy. Get a neo Jun 05 17:00:35 it is an undocumented closed brick Jun 05 17:00:38 ack Jun 05 17:00:41 in deed Jun 05 17:00:56 * anrp spots some embers Jun 05 17:01:08 nice hardware though. but closed. even shipping with a unacceptable os Jun 05 17:02:08 by the time dcordes has finished the linux port, it won't be considered nice hardware anymore :) Jun 05 17:04:19 pH5: I already updated the hardware so I can test it to death again :D Jun 05 17:04:49 you have it running on the kaiser? Jun 05 17:05:14 ScaredyCat: to a certain extent Jun 05 17:06:55 ScaredyCat: the core system is well supported. What we need is a completely working communication with the modem, sdcc which provides sd card and wifi sdio, uart for bluetooth and usb Jun 05 17:07:12 modem communication is already semi working Jun 05 17:08:21 :o Jun 05 17:09:23 i m building openmoko image using moko makefile. during that i got an error. http://www.pastebin.org/40854. Bfore this i got an error at the same step as SELinux denied permission for this to access a shared library. I got rid of it by providing permission for all process to access it usin SELinux management... Now i hav got this error. What s this error all about? Jun 05 17:10:23 it wud b really nice if i cud get sum guesses regd the error............. Jun 05 17:10:57 mass_stor: fedora? Jun 05 17:11:08 <`pwgen`> hi Jun 05 17:11:29 yaa Jun 05 17:11:37 XorA: yaa Jun 05 17:12:00 mass_stor: :-( fedora in the infinite idiotness have a patch that breaks qemu Jun 05 17:12:55 XorA: so possibly openmoko image cant b built in fedora distro? Jun 05 17:13:03 mass_stor: ENABLE_BINARY_LOCALE_GENERATION="0" in your local.conf Jun 05 17:13:16 in the latest uboontu I havee to put something =0 before I can run bitbake Jun 05 17:13:19 some vm thing Jun 05 17:13:30 also pretty annoying Jun 05 17:13:33 mass_stor: not in its default setting unless you remove the kernel patch Jun 05 17:13:52 dcordes: thats the mmap thing Jun 05 17:13:58 <`pwgen`> i have a problem building 2.6.24+git.bb -c fetch -> error : git read-tree xxx faild with signal 128 ... can someone help ? Jun 05 17:14:17 `pwgen`: pastebin please Jun 05 17:14:50 XorA: you mean in the mokobuilddir/build/conf/local.conf Jun 05 17:14:55 <`pwgen`> http://pastebin.com/m1ceb6fa6 Jun 05 17:14:57 mass_stor: yes Jun 05 17:15:37 `pwgen`: try again, thats seems to be the transitory problem with git-fetcher Jun 05 17:18:34 XorA: hav u built the image in fedora. I heard one of my co-worker askin me to try out the same in ubuntu. I WANNA MAKE SURE IF I CAN POSSIBLY BUILD D IMAGE IN FEDORA? Jun 05 17:18:46 <`pwgen`> i tried maybe 5 time in the last 2 days ... Jun 05 17:19:10 mass_stor: if you do what I said, then fedora can build an image Jun 05 17:19:30 `pwgen`: /me cries, I think the kernel guy removed that hash from the kernel tree Jun 05 17:19:40 I HATE GIT Jun 05 17:19:45 <`pwgen`> grmfpl. Jun 05 17:20:06 whoever decided history is a temporary thing in a SCM should be shot Jun 05 17:20:08 mickeyl: http://rafb.net/p/jLd7i870.html Jun 05 17:21:03 mickeyl: this loosk familiar from previous underground-image build attempts Jun 05 17:31:28 <`pwgen`> XorA: same problem with another hash for openmoko-devel (:-(( Jun 05 17:32:01 <`pwgen`> s/openmoko-devel/linux-openmoko-devel_git.b/ Jun 05 17:32:01 `pwgen` meant: XorA: same problem with another hash for linux-openmoko-devel_git.b (:-(( Jun 05 17:33:29 `pwgen`: Im not much up with the fixing of git problems, so far I alsways fail Jun 05 17:34:49 dcordes: ah, i stumbled over that when I built for ezx last week Jun 05 17:35:01 let me check Jun 05 17:35:24 looks good Jun 05 17:35:26 it should work Jun 05 17:35:34 please check whether you're on an uptodate tree Jun 05 17:35:42 just updated and pulled Jun 05 17:35:52 fso-image only depends on openmoko-alsa-scenarios for om-gta01 and om-gta02 Jun 05 17:36:19 mickeyl: fso-image is maintained in OE not OM? Jun 05 17:36:28 yeah Jun 05 17:36:52 dcordes: you're on org.oe.dev? Jun 05 17:54:26 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r52648cd12192 10/ophoned/ (6 files in 3 dirs): python-ophoned: add skeleton for TI Calypso modem Jun 05 17:54:26 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * rb6b217b77e5a 10/ophoned/ (10 files in 5 dirs): python-ophoned: implement TI Calypso specific call handling Jun 05 18:00:11 freesmartphone.org almost sounds like a spam banner Jun 05 18:00:22 ???? Jun 05 18:00:50 better check yourself Jun 05 18:01:00 free iphone now! click here!! :) Jun 05 18:01:17 just give us your credit card details at freesmartphone.org and we'll send you a free smart phone IMMEDIATELY! Jun 05 18:01:21 mickeyl: yes org.openembedded.dev Jun 05 18:01:39 got to run now bbl Jun 05 18:02:38 ok, i can see no problems from here. pastebin your fso-image file please when you're back Jun 05 18:02:58 Moniker42: then what do you think about freedesktop.org ? Jun 05 18:03:02 send us a free desktop? Jun 05 18:04:08 i haven't seen any banners offering to send me a free desk if i "spank the monkey" from a flash banner with a floating hand Jun 05 18:04:32 Hey can someone send me a link to the latest best working kernel and rootfs for openmoko? I have downloaded a couple and the last one that I got (Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080603-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs) has all the graphics screwed up. Jun 05 18:04:40 <||Leto||> woglinde: you managed to check that sdl-issue? Jun 05 18:04:49 grml Jun 05 18:04:51 better Jun 05 18:06:26 :( Jun 05 18:07:36 Any suggesitons? Jun 05 18:08:31 codeheadzxc, http://downloads.openmoko.org/recommended/Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080430-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 Jun 05 18:08:45 kdean06: Word up! Thanks Jun 05 18:08:49 No problem. Jun 05 18:26:14 so does that email about final mass production mean that the testing is done? Jun 05 18:27:16 i think so Jun 05 18:27:37 ...and does it mean, GSoC'ers get their devices as well :D? Jun 05 18:27:51 man I'm excited Jun 05 18:29:16 :) Jun 05 18:30:02 :-D Jun 05 18:30:58 mhmm Jun 05 18:31:14 that qemu thingy takes longer than my full-blown desktop to load :-x Jun 05 18:31:33 i sure hope om doesn't take as long in rl Jun 05 18:31:54 qemu is known to be really slow Jun 05 18:32:27 what an understatement :-D Jun 05 18:32:41 heh, depends how you define really :) Jun 05 18:34:01 ;) Jun 05 18:34:17 * tomboy64 kicks his qemu Jun 05 18:34:31 come on, i wanna play! Jun 05 18:34:44 pfft, your xeons aren't fast enough to emulate a lowly 200mhz arm Jun 05 18:36:53 so if the freerunner can do USB host, can one hook up a webcam? Jun 05 18:37:09 in theory Jun 05 18:37:19 i love theory :) Jun 05 18:37:44 It's an opportunity for you to translate theory into reality. Jun 05 18:37:58 me too, although its arch enemy - practice - keeps on foiling my plots :( Jun 05 18:39:30 In 1 months time: Customs offical: So, what is the value of those 'Quad Core Xeons' and that 'Motherboard' thing over there? Me: Uh, $100 Jun 05 18:39:40 Well, perhaps that just means that your theories are not researched quite enough. For example, I wonder why so many people keep trying to build perpetual motion machines when a small amount of research will prove that the theory is unsound. Jun 05 18:39:58 mwester: goddamit, you just ruined my latest project :( Jun 05 18:40:01 :p Jun 05 18:41:27 hi! i'm really new to all that hacking for cellphone stuff and have a few question not directly related to openmoko. but as somebody talked about images a few minutes ago, i have hope :) Jun 05 18:42:23 sure Jun 05 18:43:42 thanks! :) i know that the cpu of the cellphone is a TI OMAP/1710. the image files have a .dio and .m0 extension. i would like to know if its possible to "extract" them. - and - in fact where i could information about thouse file formats. what is the sense of a m0 file and stuff like that. i googled, but found nearly nothing :( Jun 05 18:44:31 aehm... "where i can find information..." Jun 05 18:45:09 Image files from where? Jun 05 18:46:42 a friend of mine gave me this cell phone with this image files and asked me, if i can take a look inside it. i sadly don't know where i got them. Jun 05 18:47:14 are these extension not "standard" image files for cellphones? Jun 05 18:47:19 Nope. Jun 05 18:47:24 You have several problems. Jun 05 18:47:36 A) what's the CPU - ok - you know that. Jun 05 18:47:54 B) How are these images converted into a format to send to teh phone Jun 05 18:47:56 mazzen: what cell? Jun 05 18:48:22 C) Does the phone do any digital signature on the image, and are they encrypted. Jun 05 18:49:04 xcasex_: dude, honestly - i don't know. he got it from china and all i know is, that it's possible to run linux on it :-/ Jun 05 18:49:07 If it's just a simple image format, uncompressed, then uploaded to the phone simply, then you should recognise OMAP assembly code, and maybe even ascii text in tehre. Jun 05 18:49:26 and yes - i know - these are not a lot of information :( Jun 05 18:49:29 google - with the aid of someone that can speak chinese Jun 05 18:49:54 SpeedEvil: btw, there seems to be a budding linux community around the htc tornado Jun 05 18:50:01 mazzen: Have you tried putting the file on a linux machine and running the file command on it? Jun 05 18:50:09 It may just recognize the file format Jun 05 18:52:35 hm htc touch pro Jun 05 18:54:36 hey wurp2, thanks for the tip! i didn't know the command - shame on me :-) but all it gives is "image.dio: data" and "image2.dio: Motorola S-Record; binary data in text format". the "Motorola" part confuse me a little bit... Jun 05 18:54:55 could that mean, a motorola cpu is used? Jun 05 18:55:46 but - honestly - i don't want to bring the topic to far away from openmoko! Jun 05 18:56:47 as i know now, it's not a typical image file and i have to try to get more information elsewhere. Jun 05 18:57:00 anyway: a lot of thanks to all of you! Jun 05 18:57:14 maybe just one more question :) : Jun 05 18:57:35 mazzen file isnt always right Jun 05 19:00:16 what kind of advices would you give me, if i want to get deeper into the "try to port linux on cell phone devices" "scene"? i also tried to find information, but its hard. does anyone knows tutorials or "guides"? kind of "first steps for beginners;-)" ? Jun 05 19:01:09 ???? Jun 05 19:01:32 * LionKMP wants that document too :) Jun 05 19:01:51 hehe Jun 05 19:02:20 i'm talking about "how to create image files for a cell phone"... stuff like that Jun 05 19:03:19 mazzen you culd start here Jun 05 19:03:21 http://wiki.xda-developers.com/ Jun 05 19:04:06 hey! woglinde, thanks! Jun 05 19:04:15 looks very interesting! Jun 05 19:04:22 * mazzen starts to read Jun 05 19:10:04 That's funny, I was just about to recommend starting a wiki for it and putting whatever halfassed notions you have about the procedure up there, then advertise it like mad Jun 05 19:10:27 people who would never help you if you just ask for it will go crazy fixing your errors :-) Jun 05 19:10:33 sounds as if someone has already done it, though Jun 05 19:11:17 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3leaa38L48 <- this is IMHO what an open source phone can/should nowadays offer, and it's possible with to qtopia + OpenGL|ES + good hardware + months of hacking!!! Jun 05 19:11:58 do you really think nvidia will make open source drivers for it? Jun 05 19:12:04 So did I read right that gta03 is gonna have a camera? Jun 05 19:12:15 and does anyone know specs? Jun 05 19:12:59 wurp2: iirc, gta03 is just gtao3 - glamo Jun 05 19:13:12 gta04 is where there will be a hardware/case refresh Jun 05 19:13:17 summatusmentis: raster said something about a camera Jun 05 19:13:21 Vegar: no, because of their closed-source model :-( Jun 05 19:13:24 gta03 will have a new case too Jun 05 19:13:58 that is not what SpeedEvil was saying, although raster might know more than SpeedEvil Jun 05 19:14:22 From: Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) , Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 15:02:15 +1000 Jun 05 19:14:28 wurp2: i read something about a 2MP camera on the list Jun 05 19:14:42 gta03 will at this stage be a gta02 minus glamo (which simplifies things a lot and at least for 2d stuff should get us an improvement). Jun 05 19:14:52 ^^^ (from raster) ^^^ Jun 05 19:15:36 there's nothing about a camera there :) Jun 05 19:16:08 Sorry, bad cut-n-paste Jun 05 19:16:09 * cyrilRomain wonders how many people is, like FOSS developers, working on 'open hardware' Jun 05 19:16:18 from raster: gta03, but otherwise we have what we have now (just a new case, different battery, added a camera, a different gsm module). Jun 05 19:17:05 Here's the full paragraph: Jun 05 19:17:22 from raster: understood. i can't blame you. i've done my share of ranting too. but even internally the most i have managed to do, i think, is influence the glamo to vanish from the gta03, but otherwise we have what we have now (just a new case, different battery, added a camera, a different gsm module). Jun 05 19:17:55 That is a tiny bit ambiguous, but sure looks to me as if it says there will be a camera in the gta03 Jun 05 19:18:14 balrog-kun: cool, thx Jun 05 19:19:53 that'll put gta04 and possibly 3g at least another year before it even starts to happen! Jun 05 19:20:16 at which point, at least in the US, LTE shoudl start rolling out Jun 05 19:23:05 I'm anxious to see the new case... Jun 05 19:28:48 ehhh 3g is overrated Jun 05 19:30:43 yay! new gsm Jun 05 19:30:44 * mwester falls over, as he discovers that he agrees with ljp on something! ;) :P Jun 05 19:31:26 i wonder what the new case will look like Jun 05 19:32:11 I have a 3 skypephone, has a camera to do video calls, but it is on the wrong side of the phone, so you cannot see the other person on the video call :) Jun 05 19:32:30 ljp: it's gonna be outdated by the time we get it though Jun 05 19:32:42 summatusmentis: 4g! Jun 05 19:33:03 but I thought 3g was being considered for gta04 Jun 05 19:33:30 hehe! And still, the network behind GSM in the USA will not be able to do more than dial-up modem speeds! Jun 05 19:36:57 it seems that the only thing that sticks above the surface of the LCD, if you're looking at the GTA without the case, is the GPS antenna Jun 05 19:37:28 otherwise they could easily make the touchscreen not sunken, like on the iPhone Jun 05 19:37:42 i wonder if the new case will be like this Jun 05 19:39:02 seems like the thing to do hey... copy Apple Jun 05 19:39:37 There's nothing wrong with copying if it's an improvement... Jun 05 19:39:52 you don't have to copy apple to come up with un-sunken touchscreen, i'm sure plenty of products had that before iPhone Jun 05 19:40:02 balrog-kun: name one Jun 05 19:40:03 was just first thing that came to my mind :p Jun 05 19:40:17 ljp: the zaurus i think? not sure Jun 05 19:40:32 there is a slight bevel on zaurus Jun 05 19:40:35 i've not played with either a zaurus or iPhone personally Jun 05 19:40:40 ljp: So as an open source advocate, you are seriously criticizing a new design because it copies smart aspects of an existing design? Jun 05 19:40:57 or was that facetious irony ;-) Jun 05 19:41:11 no, I am really criticizing all the iphone look a likes that are now coming out Jun 05 19:41:29 like the iphone2. Jun 05 19:41:50 i guess i have always been anti-trendy Jun 05 19:42:26 not saying its a bad design, though Jun 05 19:42:43 i agree with ljp in general that copying even good ideas from other products could be avoided, we're clever enough to do better Jun 05 19:43:01 the sunken touchscreen seemed a bad idea to me even before iPhone iirc Jun 05 19:43:24 balrog-kun: helps from scratching the screen Jun 05 19:43:41 ljp: yes, a screen that's easy to scratch is also a bad idea Jun 05 19:43:50 although the neo is a bit too sunken Jun 05 19:43:58 the material used Jun 05 19:44:21 mine has no scratches that i can see, though Jun 05 19:44:27 but thats expensive, companies want to keep the BOM as low as it can Jun 05 19:44:31 ljp: Mine has a scratch, and it's sunken Jun 05 19:44:43 Screen protectors help better :-) Jun 05 19:44:58 i only hate that it collects dust so quickly :p Jun 05 19:45:15 I hate that I can't touch the screen near the edges Jun 05 19:45:25 and that I feel that I'm wiping dirt under the edge when I clean it Jun 05 19:45:31 and that it is difficult to clean Jun 05 19:45:59 wurp2: we had to design a new theme for neo that has bigger areas around the edges Jun 05 19:46:04 Of course, any bad stuff you hear me say about the neo should be mitigated by the fact that it's the only smartphone ever that I've felt was worth buying Jun 05 19:46:15 ljp: yay! Jun 05 19:46:42 that theme is the one qtopia uses for neo :D Jun 05 19:47:43 ljp: Dya know if Qtopia is ever going to use the dbus interface for gsm? Jun 05 19:48:20 I mean, it's open, so obviously it could whether you plan it or not, but I mean support in the rcs mainline Jun 05 19:49:45 wurp2: doubt it, seems like a security issue Jun 05 19:50:08 but ya never know Jun 05 19:51:08 So is there a way in Qtopia (without altering the existing dialing app) to have an app monitor when calls start & end, when you switch cell towers, etc? Jun 05 19:51:40 I am sure there is a way Jun 05 19:53:58 wurp2, As far as I know, the end goal of the ASU is to put a dbus interface into all of the apps. Jun 05 19:54:08 dbus is central to the entire thing. Jun 05 19:54:25 kdean06: I know Jun 05 19:54:31 Qtopia already monitors calls (incoming, outgoing, missed, call duration, call start time). Jun 05 19:54:36 I just wasn't sure if Qtopia was planned to work with that Jun 05 19:54:54 Yes, it is planned to extend that to all of the Qtopia apps too. :) Jun 05 19:54:57 Yeah, but if I want to munge that information or set up alerts or whatever then I want my own access to it Jun 05 19:55:12 OK, so OM will use their own branch of Qtopia? Jun 05 19:55:23 wurp2 yes Jun 05 19:55:31 wurp2 git.openmoko.org Jun 05 19:55:33 If needed. I'm under the impression that Trolltech also wants to incorporate those features though. Jun 05 19:55:45 Any plans to clean that up, maybe check in some interface layers in the Qtopia mainline, so they can continue to receive Qtopia mainline bugfixes Jun 05 19:56:03 From what I understand, it was Trolltech's willingness to extend Qtopia that made it more viable for use. Jun 05 19:56:04 I would think ljp would know if Qtopia mainline was switching to dbus... Jun 05 19:56:13 kdean06: depends on what 'feature'. we have our own roadmap Jun 05 19:56:29 ljp, "Our" being Trolltech? Jun 05 19:56:33 yes Jun 05 19:56:40 k, just confirming. :) Jun 05 19:56:59 ljp is the man, as far as Qtopia goes... Jun 05 19:57:05 he he Jun 05 19:57:16 *sigh* Jun 05 19:57:20 I wanna know who to chat with about why the Qtopia media player isn't in the images. :P Jun 05 19:57:37 which images Jun 05 19:57:40 wurp2, I might actually begin reviewing the ASU. I flashed yesterday's image and it was partially usable. Jun 05 19:57:47 ljp, The Openmoko buildhost ones. :) Jun 05 19:58:10 kdean06: Cool! Jun 05 19:58:21 You're gonna review ASU on gta01? ;-) Jun 05 19:58:26 what is ASU? Jun 05 19:58:27 wurp2, Yes. Jun 05 19:58:34 LionKMP: April Software Update Jun 05 19:58:48 ah :) thanks! (I saw the Wiki page, didn't understand) Jun 05 19:58:55 the release that is on the FR when you get it Jun 05 19:59:01 LionKMP, It's the new line of software development which uses Enlightnement libs, Qtopia et cetera. Jun 05 19:59:02 kdean06 you could ask zecke if he is around Jun 05 19:59:14 wurp2, Actually, it's not. :P Jun 05 19:59:32 kdean06: Oh, I was being facetious about the 01. I figured you would only review on FR Jun 05 19:59:34 wurp2, The image on the Freerunner (the one I got AND the one that devs will get) was a later 2007.02 image. Jun 05 19:59:46 wurp2, And yes, I WILL be reviewing on the 01. Jun 05 19:59:50 kdean06: Wow, I thought steve said the ASU was gonna be on there Jun 05 20:00:08 woglinde, Thanks. :) Jun 05 20:00:08 kdean06: Thanks! Jun 05 20:00:36 I've not done reviews for a while because 2007.02 stopped getting serious attention and th ASU didn't function signifigantly. Jun 05 20:01:29 But I realized yesterday, thanks to a few people who wrote me (that don't subscribe to the lists) that people have a lot of questions, misconceptions and hopes for the ASU, so I decided to do some sort of review on the 01 and 02 just to clear some things up. Jun 05 20:01:53 I sort of forgot how anxious I get when I don't have information, so I've not been sharing "there's no information". :) Jun 05 20:02:27 But I left my camera in my Element so I couldn't take pictures, and my computer needs some attention (it's got a half working KDE 4 beta on it which isn't very productive). Jun 05 20:03:09 kdean06: you could try the lastest KDE from svn. It's quite usable now ;) Jun 05 20:03:13 I should do something tonight and post it by tomorrow morning. Jun 05 20:03:42 kdean06: kde4 is like that Jun 05 20:03:53 cyrilRomain, I'm using the 4.0.80 snapshots in Debian. It's not too bad, stability wise... I simply dislike KDE 4. :S Jun 05 20:04:43 * cyrilRomain actually uses ion3 :| Jun 05 20:06:25 kdean06: are you going to review ASU specific releases ? Or testing regurlary snapshot (e.g. for non-regressions) ? Jun 05 20:07:04 * mwester uses vmware to avoid half-working desktops... Jun 05 20:07:52 cyrilRomain, I've asked Steve and Michael about what exactly ASU "is" and from what I understand it should be considered a new line of development and not any specific snapshot long the way. So I will be reviewing the daily snapshots pretty much as frequently as possible but if there are milestone releases I'll probably cover them too. Jun 05 20:08:33 thanks for the info :) Jun 05 20:09:28 mwester, I'm a fan of virtualization (I like KVM) too. But I was trying a raw metal install of OpenSolaris 2008.05 and when it didn't detect my NIC I tried Debian again, but must have used a buggy Lenny netinstall, cause it started erroring at boot. I then tried an Ubuntu LiveCD to chroot and upgrade the Debian install, but it was a i386 version chrooting into amd64... Jun 05 20:10:19 Long story a bit shorter, I played around for HOURS before groggily deciding to install KDE 4 as the base of a fresh install. Each step along the way was faster than a fresh install, but none of them worked... In hindsight. :P Jun 05 20:23:38 anyone know how to get ubuntu Hardy to satisfy the makeinfo requirement for MokoMakefile ? Jun 05 20:26:02 hi Jun 05 20:26:10 glibc-intermediate-2.5: started - MokoMakeFile's make openmoko-devel-image is repeating this glibc thing. Is that normal? Jun 05 20:26:22 did it 4-5 times already. Jun 05 20:26:45 from task 301 to 305 all are glibc-intermediate-2.5. Jun 05 20:26:55 pjz: does it fail? Jun 05 20:27:29 is it possible that the openmoko mailing list servers are a bit slow? Jun 05 20:27:48 ignore glibc-intermediate-2.5 question, it is now continuing! :-) Jun 05 20:40:14 'packagekit' from the org.openmoko.dev branch is failing in do_patch(). Jun 05 20:44:54 ¡ʇɹɐʇs uoıʇɔnpoɹd ɹǝuunɹǝǝɹɟ ¡ƃɯo Jun 05 20:46:10 ScaredyCat: you don't say... Jun 05 20:46:48 wut Jun 05 20:47:01 O_o Jun 05 20:47:08 Neat. Jun 05 20:47:36 ScaredyCat: omg, why I see your message overturned?? Jun 05 20:48:14 uʍop ǝpısdn pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ʎɯ ǝʌɐɥ ı 'ʇıɐʍ 'ɥo Jun 05 20:48:20 is this better? Jun 05 20:48:20 ohin: you must be infected with a virus, quick pluck the cable Jun 05 20:48:25 ScaredyCat: lol Jun 05 20:48:26 :-D Jun 05 20:49:12 the steve's announcement made you crazy guys, right? ;-) Jun 05 20:49:26 hehehe Jun 05 20:49:28 indeed Jun 05 20:50:46 ASUM! Jun 05 20:51:47 * ScaredyCat giggles Jun 05 20:52:00 but, "cleared to start" != "started" Jun 05 20:52:03 i presume Jun 05 20:52:29 it means they swept the floor Jun 05 20:54:16 Does anyone know the right way (or even a way) in the 2007.2 release to restart the gsm & get the dialer working on it again? Jun 05 20:54:17 LionKMP: yeah, mokomakefile fails right now Jun 05 20:54:38 gsmd stop, echo 0 > gsm_power, echo 1 > gsm_power, gsmd start does not work Jun 05 20:55:08 LionKMP: under Hardy because it's looking for makeinfo but i can't figure out what package to install for it; there is no 'makeinfo' package, and I've got texi2html installed, which is the on ly thing that shows up in an apt-cache search as related to makeinfo Jun 05 20:55:38 wurp2, It depends on why the gsm system is dead. If it won't restart with the neod applet, the official method is "Remove cover, yank battery, count to ten, replace battery, power on" Jun 05 20:56:01 pjz: have you tried 'texinfo'? Jun 05 20:56:03 kdean06: I've never had a normal reboot fail to restart it Jun 05 20:56:18 but I'm religiously opposed to rebooting a linux system to get one subsystem to work again Jun 05 20:56:49 I'm just asking if there's a way I can shut down gsmd and restart it and actually get a useful result Jun 05 20:57:00 Yeah, me to. That religious zealotry means I lived with a audio player till the battery died and I recharged and rebooted anyway. Jun 05 20:57:06 e.g. when I use the gprs, I can never get the phone to recover so I can then make calls Jun 05 20:57:49 wurp2, As far as I know, the answer is NO. For the same reason a powered down Neo drains itself to death. IIRC, the gsm system doesn't actually respond to power down requests, though I may be wrong about that or under the wrong assumption. Jun 05 20:58:16 kdean06: Oh, well I know how to make the gsm power down at shutdown... Jun 05 20:58:25 Thanks for the pointer, I'll bet now I can get it to work Jun 05 20:58:52 The gsm doesn't power down if you just send the echo 0 to the sys device Jun 05 20:59:07 On GTA01 you need to give the GSM an "AT@POFF" command Jun 05 20:59:08 but I am pretty sure it powers down if you send the atpdown in that special way Jun 05 20:59:12 yeah, that Jun 05 20:59:44 you're using the wrong images then kdean06 Jun 05 21:00:01 mmontour: So even if I just shut down gsmd, I apparently need to at@poff the gsm then (presumably) at@pon it, then restart gsmd Jun 05 21:00:05 * ScaredyCat images power off the gsm when shutdown Jun 05 21:00:31 I will play with the various levels of powering off & back on the gsm and find a formula that resurrects the dialer Jun 05 21:00:58 ScaredyCat, Nah, I'm running the Qtopia image and gsm doesn't crash. :P Jun 05 21:01:36 some of us have to wait for the 02... some of us don't get given freerunners... Jun 05 21:01:43 then your images lack secret ScaredyCat power Jun 05 21:01:56 did I call you a biatch yet kdean06? Jun 05 21:01:58 ;) Jun 05 21:01:59 There's no "AT@PON" command (AFAIK) - the chipset looks for a 0->1 transition of that /sys flag. Jun 05 21:02:01 ScaredyCat: oh, they didnt give you one? Jun 05 21:02:14 :'( Jun 05 21:02:18 everyone in this channel got free freerunners, you must have been afk at the time Jun 05 21:02:22 Not sure. :) Jun 05 21:02:29 * ScaredyCat stabs cb22 Jun 05 21:02:59 well, just in case... kdean06: you biatch Jun 05 21:03:00 :) Jun 05 21:03:07 My install powers off the gsm when it goes down Jun 05 21:03:15 ScaredyCat, Oh, I missed your line. That wasn't a Freerunner jab. I'm actually running the Trolltech image for the 01 and using that as my main phone. Jun 05 21:03:18 and it's not ScaredyCat or Qtopia :-) Jun 05 21:03:46 mmontour: OK, thanks for the info Jun 05 21:03:53 And there are ASU images for the 01 on the official buildhost. Jun 05 21:03:59 that makes it even easier Jun 05 21:04:01 kdean06: mmmmm... Jun 05 21:04:39 trolltech.. who's that Jun 05 21:05:00 some cowboy outfit.. Jun 05 21:05:25 crickey mate, your right about that! Jun 05 21:05:44 cowboys and farmers Jun 05 21:05:45 kdean06: I can't build the x11 qtopia stuff :( Jun 05 21:05:53 Hrm.. Jun 05 21:06:29 kdean06: i hear the buildhost ASU images don't work Jun 05 21:06:36 has someone tried them? Jun 05 21:06:42 i have Jun 05 21:06:46 ScaredyCat: I've always been impressed that you could get the regular build to work regularly :-) Jun 05 21:06:52 ljp: did they boot? Jun 05 21:07:03 yes, it did boot. Jun 05 21:07:10 but i have gta02 Jun 05 21:07:19 wurp2: it's all the same image, I just pretend and change the version number.. :P Jun 05 21:07:20 ljp: oh :p Jun 05 21:07:38 has someone tried booting the buildhost ASU images for gta01? Jun 05 21:08:20 ScaredyCat: Would you mind writing a little wiki page with your build info? Like what version of what OS you run, anything special you had to install, and what scripts you run for automated builds Jun 05 21:08:36 | arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-gcc: error trying to exec 'cc1': execvp: No such file or directory Jun 05 21:08:45 A LOT of people have trouble building ever, much less regularly Jun 05 21:08:50 that's my x11 build issue Jun 05 21:09:07 I've used the qtopia-x11-images on both. They're both equally buggy but both boot and do some form of "work". Jun 05 21:09:18 wurp2: yeah, I can do that... if I can remember all the detail :D Jun 05 21:09:44 ScaredyCat: Thanks! Jun 05 21:10:01 me just wishes apm would work on the gta02 Jun 05 21:15:23 * ScaredyCat dozes Jun 05 22:18:44 Neat. Jun 05 22:18:45 http://www.eye.fi/products/home/ Jun 05 22:21:11 ...how can I run "recommended snapshot" in qemu built with mokomakefile? (if possible) Jun 05 22:24:32 LionKMP: You can do it... Jun 05 22:24:40 Isn't it on the wiki page for qemu? Jun 05 22:24:50 Or is the problem that you don't know where to get a recommended snapshot? Jun 05 22:24:57 nope. there is a "QEmu command line" page, but I fail to modify it correctly. Jun 05 22:25:12 I got snapshots. they are jffs2 format. Jun 05 22:25:28 plus 2 other, moment finding wiki pages :) Jun 05 22:25:35 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/QEMU_command_line Jun 05 22:25:52 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Snapshot_review/2008-04-21 Jun 05 22:26:00 Have you looked into flash.sh? Jun 05 22:26:06 no :( Jun 05 22:26:30 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu says that flash.sh uses u-boot to flash the qemu memory Jun 05 22:26:53 So I assume some command in flash.sh is what you need to run; just give it your desired snapshot as a parameter Jun 05 22:27:50 Depending on how thoroughly qemu emulates you might be able to just start it up in a boot menu, switch to usb console, and flash it like normal Jun 05 22:28:02 except it probably advertises on a different /dev Jun 05 22:28:30 but doing whatever flash.sh does is probably faster & easier **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun 05 22:31:24 2008 Jun 05 22:31:42 but this file is huge. http://pastebin.com/m1295b2c3 Jun 05 22:32:22 is that what you asked for? Jun 05 22:33:06 LionKMP: yep Jun 05 22:33:21 LionKMP: Is there also some *.jffs2 files in ./openmoko/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/openmoko? Jun 05 22:33:33 s/Is/Are/ Jun 05 22:33:33 wurp2 meant: LionKMP: Are there also some *.jffs2 files in ./openmoko/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/openmoko? Jun 05 22:34:38 nope, the original qemu command in MokoMakeFile (make qemu-run) had only .image files I think. Jun 05 22:35:09 http://pastebin.com/m37077bf4 Jun 05 22:35:31 I have to go soon. It looks as if you just need to copy the image files (one for rootfs and one for kernel) in that dir and re-run whatever calls flash.sh, it should put your desired image on there Jun 05 22:36:27 ok, thanks. jffs2 file is like an ISO and must be converted to "image"? well, go, I'll try again tomorrow :) Jun 05 22:36:33 00:35 anyway :) Jun 05 22:37:13 flash.sh says it loads the image files from the local dir & burns them to the virtual nand Jun 05 22:37:17 wurp2: I wrote a simple bitbake recipe around your "checkFastCharge.py" script - http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/neo/checkFastCharge_0.1.bb Jun 05 22:37:18 ah, makefile has some "flash" targets, I thought those flash the real device. I'll look at them. Jun 05 22:37:55 I woulda thunk those files would be jffs2, like for normal flashes Jun 05 22:38:17 mmontour: Awesome, thanks! I will try to get checkFastCharge on projects.openmoko.org tonight & put the bb file in with it Jun 05 22:38:53 Feel free to edit it as needed (description, license, etc). Jun 05 22:39:20 wurp2: ok, thank you, I'll try these! I Jun 05 22:40:02 mmontour: OK, I'm prolly just going for GPLv2 unless OM prefers another license Jun 05 22:42:18 hm I can't get rid of the 'bad magic number'. what do you think is wrong in http://rafb.net/p/TdeLXe68.html Jun 05 22:42:33 when running under qemu Jun 05 22:44:13 * cyrilRomain wonders what is worst between "NAND: Bad block table not found for chip 0", "NAND write: nand0: partition (u-boot) size alignment incorrect", "mtdparts variable not set, see 'help mtdparts'" Jun 05 22:45:45 cyrilRomain: it looks like consequnces of the same error Jun 05 22:46:07 balrog-k1n: should I download a default NAND somewhere? Jun 05 22:46:44 cyrilRomain: i dunno :-( you might try an older u-boot Jun 05 22:47:19 last buildhost u-boot i've tested was perhaps january or so Jun 05 22:48:36 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r98038b9ba555 10/ophoned/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Jun 05 22:48:36 freesmartphone.org: python-ophoned: implement basic multiparty handling (no conference yet). needs mucho Jun 05 22:48:36 freesmartphone.org: testing! Jun 05 22:54:18 balrog-k1n: hmm ok NAND size differs from gta01 to gta02, so it seems flash.sh needs some changes for gta02 Jun 05 22:55:12 cyrilRomain: yes, definitely Jun 05 22:55:40 cyrilRomain: oh, i hadn't noticed you were trying the gta02 stuff Jun 05 22:56:26 balrog-k1n: do you have an updated flash.sh somewhere for me please ? ;) Jun 05 22:57:00 cyrilRomain: flashing images > ~56MB will need some additional hack which i haven't decided on yet Jun 05 22:58:04 cyrilRomain: and yeah, it seems from your logs that there's somethgin wrong with alginment, i think that's because the gta02 nand has 2048B sectors instead of 512B Jun 05 22:58:15 i've never tried what you did yet Jun 05 22:58:46 wurp2: it worked, I needed to download the 3 files to images/openmoko (emptying this first), and run "make flash-qemu-official". Jun 05 22:58:54 balrog-k1n: yeah but there is no 512/2048 in flash.sh Jun 05 22:59:14 cyrilRomain: it may be complaining about that 0x35704 Jun 05 22:59:16 balrog-k1n: the problem is definitively from 0x00050000(u-boot) Jun 05 22:59:32 balrog-k1n: as if the script could not interpret the 'u-boot' value Jun 05 23:00:02 * cyrilRomain reads http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NAND_bad_blocks Jun 05 23:00:06 hmm Jun 05 23:00:38 there are so many things that can go wrong -_- Jun 05 23:00:48 heh indeed :-/ Jun 05 23:03:33 ~help mtdparts Jun 05 23:03:36 :] Jun 05 23:03:45 :-( Jun 05 23:04:17 cyrilRomain: oh, another thing that's a total showstopper (unless you took care of it already): Jun 05 23:05:19 cyrilRomain: in openmoko/Makefile around line 57: # Neo NAND is 128k sectors big Jun 05 23:05:54 the new NAND is actually two times bigger, so you need to "cat" the double number of sectors (althoug in reality there are fewer sectors, they're just biggeR) Jun 05 23:06:14 i bet this is why the bad block table is not being preserved Jun 05 23:06:27 doh! you're right Jun 05 23:06:35 i.e. on every u-boot start it tells you that the Bad block table isn't found Jun 05 23:08:47 So, is the factory cranking out millions of freerunners? Jun 05 23:09:56 balrog-k1n: yeah all the $(FLASHIMG) target need to be changed. Thanks for pointing out that to me :) Jun 05 23:13:45 balrog-k1n: I should have read qemu-neo1973 svn last log: "Use the NAND chip from GTA02 in GTA02fake (128MiB, 1.8V). (Gets detected by u-boot and linux but flash.sh isn't supported yet)" Jun 05 23:17:52 nite all Jun 05 23:18:23 cyrilRomain: yep, but that can be fixed Jun 05 23:18:26 good night Jun 05 23:19:12 balrog-k1n: I will take a look on saturday. bye and thanks again Jun 05 23:52:33 The latest update I have from the factory indicates that mass Production ( Jun 05 23:52:33 that means running the SMT line without stopping to check stuff every two Jun 05 23:52:33 seconds) has been CLEARED TO START. Jun 05 23:52:34 woohoo Jun 05 23:52:58 Yay! Jun 05 23:53:33 So they're ready for the rush, when they get 4 billion orders? :) Jun 05 23:54:49 * mwester is so looking forward to the day when people stop popping in here to ask if it's shipping yet every 1.2 seconds; getting closer now! Jun 05 23:55:19 * SpeedEvil wonders how many are cheduled Jun 05 23:57:24 mwester: is it shipping? Jun 05 23:57:26 huh? Jun 05 23:57:28 is it? Jun 05 23:57:30 yeah? Jun 05 23:57:32 :-D Jun 05 23:57:53 Need more patience; that was .8 seconds between queries! Jun 05 23:58:04 :P Jun 05 23:58:07 patience? Jun 05 23:58:14 you're simply too slow :-P Jun 05 23:58:24 and i've been waiting 2 years for that moment :-D Jun 06 00:01:34 hello all Jun 06 00:10:39 one could write a simple bot saying "NO" if sb. writes a sentence which contains "shipping" and a questionmark. Jun 06 00:15:38 when they start shipping???????????? :P Jun 06 00:15:57 invalid syntax Jun 06 00:16:11 When the one ring is cast into the fires of mount duke nukem forever. Jun 06 00:17:54 you could pull a joke and tell people asking for the shipping that you rethougth the concept and now are waiting for gnu/hurd to reach v 1.0 Jun 06 00:18:43 i heard duke nukem forever will run great on gnu/hurd Jun 06 00:19:31 but only if you got an lebedev optimus keyboard attached Jun 06 00:19:46 optimus ULTIMATE!!! Jun 06 00:20:12 where every key is a full 300 dpi screen Jun 06 00:20:45 sure the only keyboard worthy of DN4Nevah Jun 06 00:23:10 * SpeedEvil ponders. Jun 06 00:23:12 Hmm. Jun 06 00:23:42 You could do cool things with a 2000DPI 20' screen. Jun 06 00:24:00 ' as in feet? Jun 06 00:24:11 put an array of 1cm focal length 1cm dia lenses in front of it. Jun 06 00:24:23 And you've got a pretty good virtual sky. Jun 06 00:24:45 Apparently at infinity. Jun 06 00:28:24 * theocrite is disapointed by the fact that there is no camera in the neo freerunner Jun 06 00:28:38 I'm happy about it Jun 06 00:28:59 backside with built in bt webcam! Jun 06 00:29:11 you can plug an usb-cam onto your freerunner, if you absolutely need one. Jun 06 00:29:21 seriousy what's teh big deal about a camera phone? Jun 06 00:29:26 the pics suck, and are totally pointless Jun 06 00:29:35 BryceLeo: it's not only for that. Jun 06 00:29:55 the barcode scanning isn't nearly as good as it seems it is... Jun 06 00:30:02 wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Camera Jun 06 00:30:05 jamasi: well i always though that camera in a cell phone was stupid. Jun 06 00:30:14 And that it was just a toy for old kids Jun 06 00:30:44 but I saw that people with this always have a camera around and it's very useful Jun 06 00:30:44 right, a camera without good optics is just some kind of toy, but not a real cam. Jun 06 00:30:54 jamasi: you're missing the point Jun 06 00:30:57 exactly jamasi Jun 06 00:31:01 like if you have a car crash or if you are robbed Jun 06 00:31:06 jamasi: it's not to be a 'real camera' Jun 06 00:31:10 or even if you forgot a real camera Jun 06 00:31:22 jamasi: there are many, many apps for which 640*480 is just fine. Jun 06 00:31:43 The above list is just some. Jun 06 00:32:09 then you could create a "camera addon" to fit into the usb port of the freerunner and sell it for those who need/want one. Jun 06 00:32:21 i still see nothing compelling and worth the extra expense on that list... Jun 06 00:32:23 No you can't - for a number of reasons. Jun 06 00:32:38 BryceLeo: 1.3MP cameras are well under $10 Jun 06 00:33:05 in what quantity? Jun 06 00:33:08 1 Jun 06 00:33:12 sparkfun.org Jun 06 00:33:25 besides not having a camera gives the freerunner more of a business touch. Jun 06 00:33:28 However - not well under in that quantity. Jun 06 00:33:46 Socketed cameras are also available. Jun 06 00:33:51 ok, but what size is the actual important parts, how easily coudl it be included on the pcb what are the power requirements Jun 06 00:34:02 6*6*4mm or so Jun 06 00:34:09 quite a lot of companies even prohibit cellphones with cameras on their property. Jun 06 00:34:10 and negligable. Jun 06 00:34:24 and then you have to re-do alot of the pcb esign Jun 06 00:34:27 Sure. Jun 06 00:34:35 It ould require a new PCB and case. Jun 06 00:34:50 mickey|zzZZzz: the error with the bread and butter did occur because of DISTRO = "angstrom-2008-1". With om it works Jun 06 00:34:54 the case can't afford to be much bigger Jun 06 00:35:16 BryceLeo: doesn't need to be bigger - there are plenty of places the cam ould fit fine internally. Jun 06 00:35:26 BryceLeo: does need a hole and a window though. Jun 06 00:35:32 I still think it would be good as an external part you could "clip-on" your freerunner. Jun 06 00:35:49 jamasi: It's not - for a number of reasons. Jun 06 00:35:58 jamasi: It's more expensive Jun 06 00:36:17 jamasi: you need locating hardware on the outside of the phone, or for the cam to be truly huge. Jun 06 00:36:23 i'm sure there will be a phone that comes from the openmoko team with a camera... i just hope it isnt soon Jun 06 00:36:29 i want a solid owrking phone first Jun 06 00:36:38 i mean build on the current line is awesome Jun 06 00:36:49 i hope that the freerunner keeps this up Jun 06 00:36:54 SpeedEvil: you've got a display, so locationg is not a problem Jun 06 00:36:58 The freerunner SoC has a camera interface. Jun 06 00:37:04 jamasi: no - not that. Jun 06 00:37:18 jamasi: there is nowhere for it to clip onto the phone. Jun 06 00:37:37 jamasi: and you can't have a sticking out USB connector in a consumer device Jun 06 00:37:54 Not to mention that USB is very slow. Jun 06 00:37:58 As it's 1.1 Jun 06 00:38:21 enough for 1.3 M px non moving Jun 06 00:38:41 SpeedEvil: 90° miniusb-plug + raped webcam + ducttape! Jun 06 00:38:45 jamasi: unfortunately only in bad quality with the normal webcam sets Jun 06 00:38:48 oh noes... not that anyone here cares, Verizon is buying Alltel :-/ Jun 06 00:39:01 but it's not gsm, so it doesn't affect OM Jun 06 00:39:06 jamasi: I've gone into this in some detail for another project. Jun 06 00:39:10 SpeedEvil: you can't have it sticking out? Seems like you don't know the old siemens phones with camera module like the a65 :) Jun 06 00:39:29 DUCT TAPE Jun 06 00:39:32 dcordes_: oh - you can have it sticking out. But you need some sort of attachment for it to connect to. Jun 06 00:39:49 SpeedEvil: DUCT TAPE I SAY! Jun 06 00:39:52 zash: yeah, that solves everything ;) Jun 06 00:39:57 dcordes_: unless you're willing to live with a camera sticking straight out of the USB port Jun 06 00:40:27 I mean an actual useable camera that will not fall off the phone in use, or in putting it back into a case. Jun 06 00:40:44 And does not mean you have to remove it to charge. Jun 06 00:40:46 SpeedEvil: you could do a custom connector and have a slim camera clip-on piggyback the freerunner. Jun 06 00:41:35 jamasi: and make it unable to charge without removing the camera, and increase the depth by 10mm Jun 06 00:41:35 one could stick it to the backside of the freerunner Jun 06 00:41:40 http://www.bloganything.net/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/mobile-phone-with-camera.jpg Jun 06 00:41:43 there are very small usb cams Jun 06 00:42:12 dcordes_: sure there are. However, the clip you attach it to the freerunner cannot be of zero depth. Jun 06 00:42:41 SpeedEvil: why would it need to be Jun 06 00:42:53 there are cornered connectors Jun 06 00:43:05 dcordes_: which still stick out 10mm or more Jun 06 00:43:38 is there no unused internal usb ports? Jun 06 00:43:42 No. Jun 06 00:43:59 And there is no convenient way to hack onto the back of them. Jun 06 00:44:04 At least on GTA01 Jun 06 00:44:12 not necessarily Jun 06 00:44:31 dcordes_: Show me a flush one then. Jun 06 00:44:32 but, is there any small bt cams? Jun 06 00:44:38 Zanoi_: no Jun 06 00:44:40 zas: Jun 06 00:44:48 zash: that's one of my ongoing projects. Jun 06 00:44:52 you could simply solder of the connectors of the usb jack, put 4 cables Jun 06 00:44:59 dcordes_: sure you can. Jun 06 00:45:09 dcordes_: that's not remotely consumer though. Jun 06 00:45:17 or even put a switch Jun 06 00:45:23 dcordes_: and it's an utter bastard to do, becasue of where it is. Jun 06 00:45:29 so you can switch between external and internal usb Jun 06 00:46:02 No, you can't - practically. I've looked very carefully at ways to mod GTA01 for internal USB. Jun 06 00:46:29 It's really only doable by someone skilled in soldering, with decent equipment. Jun 06 00:46:41 And no, you can't get I2C or SPI cameras. Jun 06 00:46:58 if you really want a cam as a 'consumer' and don't want to render your freerunner unusable soldering around in it, you could simply have one very tiny usb camera with a mini connector Jun 06 00:47:06 and if you need it put it in Jun 06 00:47:07 a consumer-ready clip-on would possibly extend the dimensions of the phone by 10 mm in height and depth, but it could also integrat a bigger LiION pack or a cardreader. Jun 06 00:47:19 jamasi: or a duck. Jun 06 00:47:23 expandable backs? that idea has beena round for a while Jun 06 00:47:28 jamasi: that way it's portable. Jun 06 00:48:05 BryceLeo: and suffers largely from the problem that there isn't a power or USB point available on the debug connector. Jun 06 00:48:32 SpeedEvil: why? Jun 06 00:48:33 very true, but i'd take the expandable back just for a bigger lion battery Jun 06 00:48:42 dcordes_: because there isn't Jun 06 00:48:59 I just think it is possible, if people are really interested in this. for me: I'm quite happy with the current layout of the freerunner. Jun 06 00:49:23 SpeedEvil: I mean why is debug port a problem regarding expandable backs?Ü Jun 06 00:49:37 dcordes_: because there is no USB or battery connection. Jun 06 00:49:48 dcordes_: many other useful connections are brought out. Jun 06 00:49:54 on the debug board? Jun 06 00:50:08 dcordes_: no - the debug connector inside the phone Jun 06 00:50:13 the battery puts out 3.7v... if you put a regulator on the board there's chance you coudl find a camera that would work Jun 06 00:50:20 then just run leads right off the battery Jun 06 00:50:25 oh. Why would that be needed for a backpack? Why not use usb? Jun 06 00:50:38 isn't freerunner un-powered host? Jun 06 00:50:57 dcordes_: because you have to then have a connector from the USB port to the back - which sticks out or requires a custom connector. Jun 06 00:51:16 dcordes_: and means that it's going to be fiddly to put on and off. Jun 06 00:51:19 wouldn't the whole backpack be custom- in a way? Jun 06 00:51:36 so your whole point is the position of the usb jack on the side? Jun 06 00:52:07 dcordes_: As far as a usable consumer item - replaceable backs - is concerned, it's a major issue. Jun 06 00:52:09 as I'm thinking about a comercial backpack I don't think a custom usb connector would pose too much trouble. Jun 06 00:52:18 jamasi: Sure. Jun 06 00:52:29 jamasi: you're looking at an investment of maybe $10-50K Jun 06 00:52:38 to make a custom connector. Jun 06 00:53:14 As you've basically got to make a custom machine to stamp out all the parts and wrap them into the shape you want. Jun 06 00:53:25 so everything which is not off the shelf stanard parts is damn expensive? Jun 06 00:53:32 Pretty much. Jun 06 00:53:53 Or stuff that is designed to vary - like PCBs. Jun 06 00:53:57 aren't there off the shelf tiny mini usb connectors? Jun 06 00:54:17 dcordes_: I've looked, and I can't find any that do not stick out at least 20mm Jun 06 00:54:36 They may exist. I'd love to find one. Jun 06 00:54:40 you'd have to have a kind of that machine in any case: for the plastic cover. If you do it clever, then you can include quite a lot of the connector in th cover as well. Jun 06 00:55:02 SpeedEvil: my custom normal usb conenctors stick out like 1cm Jun 06 00:55:49 What ones? Jun 06 00:56:12 20mm may be a bit of an exageration - it's more like 13mm for the bare metal shells. Jun 06 00:56:24 At least all the datasheets I've looked at. Jun 06 00:56:44 the ones where I remove the plastic so only the metal shell is left and use a bit of hot glue to fix the cables Jun 06 00:56:59 I think you'll find it's slightly more than 1cm Jun 06 00:57:09 and remove the metal until where the cables stick out Jun 06 00:57:30 And in production, you can't do that. Jun 06 00:57:46 I geuss not :) Jun 06 00:57:47 Unless you want to really wind up your assembly cost. Jun 06 00:58:37 it's just a nice example of how small they can get Jun 06 00:58:45 there's not much in them Jun 06 00:58:47 Yes, I agree. Jun 06 00:58:56 In principle, they can get smaller than they are. Jun 06 00:59:10 dcordes_: however, show me where I can order some. Jun 06 00:59:15 yea.. Jun 06 01:00:03 a backpack with a cam and usb hub would show how expandable the beasts are Jun 06 01:00:12 an intersting thing Jun 06 01:00:20 maybe somebody can make one at home and show it off :) Jun 06 01:04:26 Lots of this stuff is almost trivial if you're willing to solder to the neo. Jun 06 01:04:47 But obviously that almost eliminates the commercial upgrfade market. Jun 06 02:04:15 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.dev * r7c5bed72c23f 10/conf/distro/include/moko-autorev.inc: [diversity] set diversity-radar as AUTOREV Jun 06 02:34:02 openmoko: 03werner * r4477 10/developers/werner/neocon/neocon.c: Jun 06 02:34:02 openmoko: neocon used to hang when USB just dropped, e.g., when using u-boot via Jun 06 02:34:02 openmoko: ttyACM*, when executing the "reset" command. This small change makes Jun 06 02:34:02 openmoko: neocon detect the condition, and close the session. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jun 06 02:59:56 2008