**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 10 02:59:56 2008 Jun 10 03:04:00 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rb3eaf28f71a7 10/packages/efl1/evas_cvs.bb: fix evas build to disable threads, and clean up formatting Jun 10 03:04:01 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r068dfb2d2063 10/ (7 files in 7 dirs): Merge branch 'org.openmoko.asu.dev' of git+ssh://git@git.openmoko.org/var/cache/git/openmoko into org.openmoko.asu.dev Jun 10 03:04:44 So, is the way to build ASU documented on the wiki? Jun 10 03:04:54 barring this little manual change that you just made? Jun 10 03:05:12 and any other potential changes you have to make to fix a b0rken build? :-) Jun 10 03:05:22 Don't think so. Documentation is the magic makfile itself. Jun 10 03:05:43 But I dunno even where to get the magic makefile Jun 10 03:06:19 And is the magic makefile self-contained? Do I need to dl stuff first, or get from other repositories & run their magic makefiles first? Jun 10 03:06:24 It's the standard moko makefile Jun 10 03:06:29 mwester: O Jun 10 03:06:52 Is there a setting I need to manually change to start building ASU? Jun 10 03:06:58 e.g. wherever 2007.2 was before? Jun 10 03:06:58 just edit the line that says: OM_GIT_BRANCH := org.openmoko.dev Jun 10 03:07:33 And point it to your favorite ASU branch (dev or stable) Jun 10 03:07:52 OK, and is the magic token for the ASU branches visible somewhere? Jun 10 03:08:37 Yeah, with the right git commands you can see the entire branch structure. But its easier to read the CIA-44 commit messages to see the branch name. ^^^^ Jun 10 03:08:49 OK, cool Jun 10 03:08:51 thanks! Jun 10 03:09:12 I see now Jun 10 03:09:19 How is the ASU these days, anyway? Stable enough to use yet? Jun 10 03:09:28 smelly Jun 10 03:09:37 Oh - and you'll want to make openmoko-qtopia-x11-image , not the old openmoko-devel-image Jun 10 03:09:46 OK Jun 10 03:09:54 Documenting on mokomakefile page on the wiki :-) Jun 10 03:10:02 freelock: It's having growing pains right this moment, but when it works it looks cool. Jun 10 03:10:36 I definitely like the videos... is it working on the GTA01? Jun 10 03:11:39 not really. Jun 10 03:11:49 yet. Jun 10 03:12:53 * raster grumbles about dbus Jun 10 03:14:17 raster: Disliking dbus in general, or just having trouble at the moment? Jun 10 03:14:24 * mwester wonders why, since dbus will solve all our problems, including world hunger! Jun 10 03:14:49 dbus does look like a mighty fine idea to me... Jun 10 03:14:59 wurp2|away: just the nasty marshalling/unmashalling of data structs/variables in and out of dbus messages Jun 10 03:15:08 ah Jun 10 03:15:12 and all the unmashalling/callback/free callback handling Jun 10 03:15:13 etc. Jun 10 03:15:13 I have only been using dbus from python Jun 10 03:15:21 and afaict it does all that stuff for me :-) Jun 10 03:15:42 I know from old CORBA days that that can be major yuck in C/C++ Jun 10 03:15:50 'tis Jun 10 03:16:03 i much prefere my own ecore_ipc+eet Jun 10 03:16:06 so much nicer Jun 10 03:16:09 * mwester is just generally a little suspicious, back from the really early days (Sun's tooltalk)... Jun 10 03:16:11 well for c/c++ Jun 10 03:16:27 as u define a data descriptor once Jun 10 03:16:33 (whihc is dead-trivial) Jun 10 03:16:52 and now the code can marshal/unmarshall to/from entire trees of data structs for you Jun 10 03:17:01 Quick question that I thought would be interesting. Would it be possible to mount an iPod's filesystem via USB on the openmoko? Jun 10 03:17:13 so encode and decode are single function calls Jun 10 03:17:27 that take a native data struct pointer Jun 10 03:17:32 or rturn one - all allocated for you Jun 10 03:17:43 Sonicadvance1: If you have the right cable, and it's formatted for Windows -- yes. Jun 10 03:17:56 raster: Couldn't you do the same thing for dbus? Jun 10 03:17:59 Dunno about the iPod if it's formatted for a mac Jun 10 03:18:28 wurp2|away: it'd be harder and yet more work Jun 10 03:18:34 sure Jun 10 03:18:35 mwester, awesome. Then my second question of the two part question. Is it relatively easy to port parts of gstreamer to the OpenMoko? :D Jun 10 03:18:44 and I'm not suggesting you do it right now... Jun 10 03:18:50 Isn't that already done, Sonicadvance1? Jun 10 03:18:55 but it would be work that you do once, rather than every time you code more dbus shtuff Jun 10 03:18:55 Is it? Jun 10 03:19:13 I thought so. Or maybe it's just in OE. Jun 10 03:19:43 wurp2|away: not sure it's so easy. Jun 10 03:19:56 raster: Me neither :-) Jun 10 03:20:00 I was just thinking it would be neat to port gtkpod to OpenMoko, so I could manage my iPods music and play music via gtkpod =o Jun 10 03:20:20 raster: But it seems that if python can make it that easy, it must be possible in C too Jun 10 03:20:32 its possible Jun 10 03:20:38 but not too nice or easy Jun 10 03:20:48 and that means spending a chunk of time on it Jun 10 03:20:52 and not the thing i want to do Jun 10 03:20:53 only for the guy doing the grunt work Jun 10 03:21:01 for everyone else, it then becomes dead easy Jun 10 03:21:04 yes Jun 10 03:21:07 and that guy is me Jun 10 03:21:10 Yeah, again, just talking around it Jun 10 03:21:16 dont care abotu the everyone else bit right now Jun 10 03:21:18 It's not like I'm gonna go do it :-) Jun 10 03:21:20 :) Jun 10 03:21:37 just grumbling that i can't use an existing solution. Jun 10 03:21:43 i already have Jun 10 03:21:55 Usually, to me, coding stuff like that is 10x as much fun as coding the cookie cutter (un)marshall code Jun 10 03:23:00 not when u have a "deadline" Jun 10 03:23:06 very true Jun 10 03:23:11 of like "really fucking soon" Jun 10 03:23:19 u dont have time to do all the infra stuff Jun 10 03:23:25 and just dont give a crap about infra stuff Jun 10 03:23:29 I thought every company used that rubber stamp for all deadlines Jun 10 03:23:56 When do you want it done is a redundant questoin Jun 10 03:24:03 hehehe Jun 10 03:24:06 It's either "really fucking soon" Jun 10 03:24:45 Any other answer means "we don't really know what we want, and it'll change before we get close to wanting it, so why don't you sit on your thumb for four weeks?" Jun 10 03:27:29 wurp2|away: That's how you differentiate between the real companies to work for/with, and the ones that you want to stay away from. :) Jun 10 03:27:49 mwester: It depends on whether you're in the mood for a paid vacation or not Jun 10 03:29:24 in general, I don't find that to be the case. If a good engineer finds themselves sitting on their butt for more than a few days because of project management issues, they should use that time to find the next job cause that one is doomed. Jun 10 03:29:25 true Jun 10 03:29:59 I sat on my butt for months at one location, as a 1099 contractor no less Jun 10 03:30:12 They always thought they had stuff for me to do, but it was obviously makework so I didn't do it Jun 10 03:30:22 No one every noticed Jun 10 03:30:25 Bet that company didn't go anywhere in the space they were trying to compete. Jun 10 03:30:40 Finally I went so crazy with it that I gave 2 weeks notice with nowhere to go Jun 10 03:30:46 and spent 6 weeks out of work Jun 10 03:30:51 Oh yeah, the company died Jun 10 03:32:11 hehehe Jun 10 03:32:14 not surprising Jun 10 03:32:16 seen it before Jun 10 03:32:18 many times Jun 10 03:32:20 still see it Jun 10 03:32:28 almsot no one Jun 10 03:32:35 1. knows exactly what they want Jun 10 03:32:42 2. knows exactly how to get there Jun 10 03:32:53 3. has tne focus to sit down and DO IT Jun 10 03:33:21 i'm amazed most people/companies don't die from forgetting to breathe thanks to their own stupidity Jun 10 03:33:22 on that topic... Jun 10 03:33:50 has anyone considered writing up expected functionality from the ASU apps (or even a list of the ASU apps), and/or mock-ups? Jun 10 03:34:02 * mwester adds that often those companies need only ask the engineers sitting on their butts, who probably have a better idea than the execs. For a case study, just find an engineer at Motorola, if there are any left anymore. Jun 10 03:34:24 raster: I've had really good luck with (I know, even the word makes a lot of people twitch...) Agile Jun 10 03:35:01 wurp2|away: OMG! ACK! Gasp! Are you -- could you? -- are you proposing... SPECS! :o :o Jun 10 03:35:03 mwester: hehehehe Jun 10 03:35:39 well, the highest level of specs Jun 10 03:35:51 what should it let the users do, in english, and what should it look like Jun 10 03:35:56 yeah, I am Jun 10 03:36:02 I'm guessing they're not there... Jun 10 03:36:05 wurp2|away: i prefer actual communication Jun 10 03:36:10 like peolpe talking and discussing Jun 10 03:36:11 raster: Oh, me too Jun 10 03:36:12 and agreeing Jun 10 03:36:30 but... having a simple mock up, and notes that come from those meetings are good Jun 10 03:36:34 and then getting shit done (tm) Jun 10 03:36:44 yeah Jun 10 03:36:48 thats always good Jun 10 03:36:53 and having just the list is much better than not having the list or communication Jun 10 03:37:03 I'm not proposing rational rose Jun 10 03:37:03 but u need the meetign in the first place Jun 10 03:37:14 not just the stone tablets handed down from god Jun 10 03:37:14 :) Jun 10 03:37:17 I'm proposing pencil, paper, and digital camera Jun 10 03:37:21 oh, I agre Jun 10 03:37:22 e Jun 10 03:37:48 like "heres an idea we have - is this doable? can we recycle other things? can we improve it?" Jun 10 03:37:49 etc. Jun 10 03:37:54 and then a bit of... conversation Jun 10 03:38:00 then an agreement Jun 10 03:38:06 both sides now know whats up Jun 10 03:38:07 and agree Jun 10 03:38:09 then do it Jun 10 03:38:12 yep Jun 10 03:38:13 and dont change the god damn spec Jun 10 03:38:22 (ie change what was agreed on) Jun 10 03:38:29 unless u run into unexpected issues that require it Jun 10 03:38:39 simple. Jun 10 03:38:42 works Jun 10 03:38:46 gets shit done Jun 10 03:39:17 is OM centrally enough located to have such meetings? Jun 10 03:39:26 In person is much better than phone Jun 10 03:40:24 nup Jun 10 03:40:28 its distributed Jun 10 03:41:14 distributed is great most of the time Jun 10 03:41:18 and sucks 10% of the time Jun 10 03:43:01 thats when you need to use tools Jun 10 03:43:02 like irc Jun 10 03:43:04 email Jun 10 03:43:12 skype/voip/video conf Jun 10 03:43:17 and shared whiteboard things Jun 10 03:43:19 speaking of those Jun 10 03:43:28 has anyone ever gotten inkscapes shared wb to work? Jun 10 04:34:48 Is there someplace I can get the old openmoko-keyboard? Jun 10 04:34:53 Or what should I replace it with? Jun 10 04:35:05 Assuming that I hate the multitap keyboard... Jun 10 04:45:17 you can't Jun 10 04:45:24 well wait Jun 10 04:45:36 in asu u cant as kbd is not a separate app/window Jun 10 04:45:40 its part of e/eillume Jun 10 04:45:51 i wnated to make a keyboard more modular on a different level Jun 10 04:45:57 like dictionary looup bing modular Jun 10 04:46:03 layotu being just a config file Jun 10 04:46:15 and faking keys/words tc. to be a whole subsystem on its own to interface to Jun 10 04:48:00 I'm on 2007.2 Jun 10 04:48:12 but apparently the same opkg repositories are now used for ASU? Jun 10 04:48:21 Because I can't find openmoko-keyboard to install :-( Jun 10 04:49:04 So if ppl want to change the keyboard functionality in a way not supported by the layout they're out of luck? Jun 10 04:50:45 thx for the quick reply - I didn't actually expect to hear anything at this hour Jun 10 04:53:11 wurp2|away: right now - yes. Jun 10 04:53:31 well u'd have to patch code Jun 10 04:57:29 OK Jun 10 04:57:51 doing a new kbd of your own will need the writing of code anyway Jun 10 04:57:56 so same stuff one way or another Jun 10 04:58:04 i wanted to make that writing of code more streamlined/easier Jun 10 04:58:07 int he long run Jun 10 05:01:33 sure Jun 10 05:01:49 http://explosm.net/comics/675/ Jun 10 05:02:18 craptastic Jun 10 05:02:45 My standard scripts I run to update a new release fubared my re-image since some of the stuff I use is gone from the repos now :-( Jun 10 05:02:56 Well, bedtime for me. Happy hacking! Jun 10 05:22:43 Does the freerunner not include a camera? Jun 10 05:23:03 true Jun 10 05:24:35 correct! Jun 10 05:25:37 Interesting. I rarely use the camera in my phone anyhow. Jun 10 05:56:03 CM, Hi am trying to compile Gtk based project it is giving me error like "CROSS COMPILE Badness: /usr/include in INCLUDEPATH: /usr/include/libmokoui2" Jun 10 05:58:11 CM, My make file is http://pastebin.ca/1043549 Jun 10 05:59:43 raster: howdy, you responded to my mail. Why can't fic leverage better components? :/ Jun 10 06:00:47 not that the screen is the problem, the screen is still better than most of the competition outside of japan, but for procs, etc? Jun 10 06:01:12 doc|home: ummmmmmm. that information i can't talk about Jun 10 06:01:45 but the simple version is Jun 10 06:01:53 1. history Jun 10 06:02:01 2. low volumes Jun 10 06:02:20 fact is we can't leverage the best components Jun 10 06:03:24 is there that little competition that none of the component manufacturers can see the potential? This is potentially a whole new market for them. It's potentially the computer in your pocket that people would like. Really, it's like OM is IBM before the pc :/ Jun 10 06:04:22 and it'll remain low volume if the specs don't keep up with the competition, most people won't buy on openness alone :/ Jun 10 06:04:27 sadly Jun 10 06:08:05 we have a limited ability to get components - at this stage Jun 10 06:08:05 that may improve Jun 10 06:08:05 also note Jun 10 06:08:06 this is openmoko Jun 10 06:08:08 not fic Jun 10 06:08:10 fic is not involved in om hardware production beyond providing the factory facilities Jun 10 06:08:21 that's a pity :/ Jun 10 06:09:01 also, don't get me wrong in any mail I've sent, I realise you're all breaking new ground, and congrats in getting as far as you all have, it's a massive achievement :) Jun 10 06:09:13 just need to keep pushing :) Jun 10 06:09:43 by the time the gta04 comes there's should be a nice library of apps and a solid OS hopefully Jun 10 06:13:44 doc|home: i dont think they care Jun 10 06:13:50 they sell to who has the biggest wallet Jun 10 06:14:17 i wish it were different Jun 10 06:14:27 but the world works on the basis of he with the bigger purse matters more Jun 10 06:14:30 no one can go to them and market it differently? Jun 10 06:14:34 so he who busy more components Jun 10 06:14:44 and has boght them in the past matters Jun 10 06:14:52 who are freescale's competitors? Jun 10 06:14:55 if u are to small they arent even goign to waqste the time to have a meeting with u Jun 10 06:15:02 as u are not wirth their time to even talk to Jun 10 06:15:15 its not even that Jun 10 06:15:21 they are not interested in even listening Jun 10 06:15:27 "ow mny do u want to buy?" Jun 10 06:15:30 "10,000" Jun 10 06:15:35 "potentially millions" Jun 10 06:15:42 "go away. we'll talk to you when you add 2 zeros" Jun 10 06:15:44 no Jun 10 06:15:47 u cant say potentially Jun 10 06:15:50 u say what u will Jun 10 06:16:07 then u generally have to sign up and buy that many in 1 lump Jun 10 06:16:13 this is not always the case Jun 10 06:16:15 but often Jun 10 06:16:26 often the best components have exclusive deals Jun 10 06:16:40 so for a period of time only 1 customer can get it Jun 10 06:16:49 or the customer has bought up so much supply there is non left for others Jun 10 06:16:50 etc. Jun 10 06:16:53 each thing depends Jun 10 06:17:05 but it is hard as a small manufacturer to get what u'd like Jun 10 06:17:16 so often its a case of "make do with what you can get" Jun 10 06:17:24 which is why I was asking about freescale, they make the iphone's proc, the freerunner is potentially a much better phone than the iphone, but not if it lags massively behind, can't play movies, etc :/ Jun 10 06:17:28 again - talking jst generally Jun 10 06:17:33 not specific vendors or chips Jun 10 06:17:48 so ideally getting someone in fic to get a word in the right ear with their competitor would work Jun 10 06:17:50 dude Jun 10 06:18:02 apple walked in and said "we will buy 12 million chips" Jun 10 06:18:06 we could never do that Jun 10 06:18:11 they would laugh us out of the room Jun 10 06:18:16 apple CAN say that Jun 10 06:18:20 and people will believe them Jun 10 06:18:22 sure Jun 10 06:18:24 who are we to even say that? Jun 10 06:18:33 we should not forget the precarious situationw e are in Jun 10 06:18:45 we are an unproven company with an unproven product in an unproven market niche Jun 10 06:18:52 with an unproven strategy Jun 10 06:19:02 people who make stuff are in the business to make money Jun 10 06:19:07 and they will go for the sure bet Jun 10 06:19:24 we are - in their eyes, so far from a sure bet, we mayaswell not exist Jun 10 06:19:38 its like setting your business strategy on buying and filling out lottery tickets Jun 10 06:19:43 they just wont do it Jun 10 06:19:52 so u ned up having to go to smaller vendors Jun 10 06:19:54 or resellers Jun 10 06:20:02 * doc|home nods Jun 10 06:20:14 or go to product lines/chips/compnents no longer in demand where they will sell whatever they can as they have stock floating about Jun 10 06:20:36 I'm just amazed that none of them can see, nor none of fic can see why it's in their advantage to use their contacts, the potential for this Jun 10 06:20:48 until you guys start buying freerunners in the 100,000's Jun 10 06:20:52 even ignoring the idealistic open side, just the components and specs side Jun 10 06:20:54 we have very little leverage Jun 10 06:21:01 if we have a very solid product run Jun 10 06:21:07 and sales figures to back it up Jun 10 06:21:15 component ordering history and PAYMENt history Jun 10 06:21:19 they dont even know if we'll pay Jun 10 06:21:30 if apple comes to order N compnents Jun 10 06:21:35 they know apple can and will pay for them Jun 10 06:21:43 for all they know we mght not even have the money to Jun 10 06:21:48 * doc|home nods Jun 10 06:22:08 reality isnt as rainbow-filled and nice as we'd like Jun 10 06:22:09 :) Jun 10 06:22:24 of course :) Jun 10 06:22:25 if it were peole wouldnt demand windows on their desktops and laptops Jun 10 06:22:37 the fact is =- most of the world doesnt think this way - nor does it even care Jun 10 06:22:39 it's still amazing no one on their side gets this, or sees the potential Jun 10 06:22:42 it sucks Jun 10 06:22:45 bit its the truth Jun 10 06:22:47 :( Jun 10 06:22:49 no doubt Jun 10 06:23:25 even ignoring the open side, there's massive potential, even as an iphone beater (yeah, I hate the term too), no expensive apps, no cut to apple, no chunk to the telecomms companies. Jun 10 06:23:53 of course, there's the advantage of apple's marketing / design backing Jun 10 06:24:09 dude Jun 10 06:24:15 no one is beating the ip-hone Jun 10 06:24:17 iphone Jun 10 06:24:26 not with the # of sales they hve Jun 10 06:24:33 u are definitely dreaming Jun 10 06:24:43 and open source phone is going to be a niche market Jun 10 06:24:45 for a long time Jun 10 06:24:50 maybe not on numbers, but there was once a time when no one was beating apple in desktops too Jun 10 06:24:55 lets just hope that niche is big enough to support the business Jun 10 06:25:03 and enough to make it less-niche over time Jun 10 06:25:42 something that iphone is doing quite well is interaction with the device Jun 10 06:27:33 and i hope that there is an interaction architect for openmoko ui Jun 10 06:27:37 good morning Jun 10 06:27:41 morning Jun 10 06:30:04 as there are possibilities (opengl support) to have a good enough ui Jun 10 06:31:36 no chance Jun 10 06:31:58 raster: opengl not supported? Jun 10 06:32:02 nup Jun 10 06:32:18 won't be because no one who has specs under nda is going to spend the time on it Jun 10 06:32:23 on the glamo it's too limited Jun 10 06:32:32 cant do gl @ vga Jun 10 06:32:35 have to go down to qvga Jun 10 06:32:39 can onyl do gl fullscreen. Jun 10 06:32:46 max texture size 256x56 Jun 10 06:32:49 no render to texture... Jun 10 06:33:00 and gta03 wont have the glamo Jun 10 06:33:10 so it'd be effort not able to be used on the gta03 Jun 10 06:33:12 or gta04 etc. Jun 10 06:33:41 Yeah that's all fair enough. I'd still like that mpeg4 decode though. Jun 10 06:33:56 similar story Jun 10 06:33:59 :( Jun 10 06:34:10 have to develop a non-standard interface to do it Jun 10 06:34:18 etc. etc. Jun 10 06:34:43 similar but not the same; more basic functionality than opengl, and simpler and thus faster to code (one would assume; correct me if I'm wrong) Jun 10 06:34:49 video playback is not in the specs for the freerunner Jun 10 06:34:55 thus - not important Jun 10 06:35:19 disappointing Jun 10 06:35:41 no one within om has decreeed that god video playback is a requirement for it Jun 10 06:35:46 good Jun 10 06:35:58 in fact video playback isnt even mentioned anywhere Jun 10 06:36:00 :/ Jun 10 06:36:19 well, it is at least in the ol' images in the media player description... Jun 10 06:36:38 old images are not a specification Jun 10 06:36:54 raster: what kind of restrictions om has, could you forward the specifications to named company? Jun 10 06:37:01 ASU is what we are doing and media playback is not listed Jun 10 06:37:13 mudyc: nup. cant Jun 10 06:37:14 nda Jun 10 06:37:31 u need to be an employee of om and sign up to the same nda's Jun 10 06:37:37 and then u can get them Jun 10 06:37:50 raster: well, for a named people who will sign the nda of course Jun 10 06:38:28 om has signed one Jun 10 06:38:35 if u are an employee and u sign an nda with om Jun 10 06:38:40 u inherit om's nda with smedia Jun 10 06:38:43 so u can have access Jun 10 06:38:56 there's a mention of hardware decoding on planet.openmoko.org, someone has had some success in fact, not vga of course, but better than was expected Jun 10 06:39:01 hardware based decoding Jun 10 06:39:09 ^ redundant :/ Jun 10 06:39:16 qvga video is doable Jun 10 06:39:24 i have gone into detail on the mailing list before Jun 10 06:39:27 not going to again Jun 10 06:39:27 yep Jun 10 06:39:28 :) Jun 10 06:39:33 fine, none of us want that ;) Jun 10 06:40:23 oo, thanks for that planet reference Jun 10 06:40:26 np Jun 10 06:40:28 that's all I was really looking for Jun 10 06:40:35 actually working, not even just theoretical :) Jun 10 06:40:36 * mjr doesn't follow the planet too closely, maybe should Jun 10 06:40:43 allegedly :) Jun 10 06:42:49 but yeah, a quick and dirty mplayer output plugin is _just fine_ by me Jun 10 06:42:53 has anyone got a rough draft of a basic contract for group sales? want to have something before I agree to be a buyer Jun 10 06:43:02 * doc|home ahs 10 orders for vancouver :) Jun 10 06:43:04 *has Jun 10 06:45:30 hmm, considering balrog-kun's observation that upscaling to vga at full framerate seems to take a bit more oomph than it has (at least with the code there currently), can one still use the display as a logical qvga display as with gta01? Jun 10 06:46:12 (thereby switching to qvga and scaling to _that_ with the glamo while decoding the video) Jun 10 06:46:16 I was wondering would it be possible to do the decoding on the glamo and then have the scaling and rotating done on the cpu? Jun 10 06:46:26 doc|home, nnnno Jun 10 06:46:26 split the load Jun 10 06:46:34 mjr: not ideal, but nothing is :) Jun 10 06:46:45 or is it just plain not possible? Jun 10 06:46:52 just plain not possible Jun 10 06:47:04 remember, the biggest bottleneck here is the cpu-gpu bus Jun 10 06:47:08 hmmm, well, I asked on the blog if it was possible to just not rotate Jun 10 06:47:19 save that overhead, rotation isn't really necessary Jun 10 06:48:24 cool, there's a response: doc: yes, it?s completely optional, by default the rotation is disabled. And, frankly, if you have to recode the videos to a different codec anyway, you can do the rotation and scalling during recoding, on your PC. Jun 10 06:48:32 methinks I'll leave a comment on the subject Jun 10 06:48:41 yeah, that you had to do with gta01 as well to get playback Jun 10 06:48:52 I'm happy enough if I can get the same with the FR Jun 10 06:49:05 yeah Jun 10 06:49:40 though I'm still hopeful that in QVGA mode the chip has enough oomph to rotate and scale many preexisting files Jun 10 06:50:03 I think he said it did Jun 10 06:50:19 said "probably", didn't say he tried it ;] Jun 10 06:50:25 hehe Jun 10 07:28:49 hello. anybody from HU around? Jun 10 07:29:10 hi all, the kernel in OM does support inotify.doesn't it. Jun 10 07:50:49 anyone able to ping git.freesmartphone.org? Jun 10 07:51:35 yep Jun 10 07:51:40 yes Jun 10 07:57:52 hmm..ok..thanks Jun 10 07:58:31 am not able to push :S....fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly.... Jun 10 08:38:54 yay for mass production :) Jun 10 08:42:00 yippie! :) Jun 10 08:42:59 yay for that Jun 10 08:46:18 yay Jun 10 08:46:27 x&!rt for that! Jun 10 09:20:37 have you not been paying attention cb22? Jun 10 09:21:21 ScaredyCat: toA Jun 10 09:21:24 to?* Jun 10 09:21:40 * ScaredyCat suggests starting selling units on 11th July Jun 10 09:21:51 * ScaredyCat points at topic change.. Jun 10 09:22:00 that was ages ago Jun 10 09:22:29 oh, i'm sorry for not updating the topc within 25 seconds of the announcement :) Jun 10 09:22:46 what? Jun 10 09:23:00 it was 5 days ago Jun 10 09:23:30 s/25 seconds/5 days/ Jun 10 09:23:30 cb22 meant: oh, i'm sorry for not updating the topc within 5 days of the announcement :) Jun 10 11:11:15 u-boot is not coming in my neo1973 Jun 10 11:12:22 when i insert battery it is booting with pressing power button Jun 10 11:13:17 press the power button and it boots? how unexpected! :) Jun 10 11:16:20 soundar, press the aux button as well Jun 10 11:16:25 i mean keep pressing it Jun 10 11:16:41 how to i get into u-boot ? Jun 10 11:16:59 press aux (and keep it pressed) Jun 10 11:17:13 it s not coming.. Jun 10 11:17:17 press power button (and keep it pressed for at least 3 second) Jun 10 11:19:22 hey everyone Jun 10 11:21:21 u-boot is not working..can i update my u-boot Jun 10 11:24:41 does anybody have any info on umts development? Jun 10 11:37:41 morning Jun 10 11:39:19 so .. if freerunner is clear to launch .. any date when deliveries will start ? Jun 10 11:42:21 BBishop, nothing yet Jun 10 11:46:14 soundar: wiki.. you have to press AUX+POWER at the _SAME_time, and hold it! Jun 10 11:47:05 soundar: if you're uboot would be broken, it wouldnt even boot Jun 10 11:49:04 BBishop, well I think it'll be on announce list then it be OK Jun 10 11:49:26 yeah ... Jun 10 11:50:04 there's a computer science fest in germany this month .. any chance I'll get to see openmoko around there ? Jun 10 12:00:28 hi Jun 10 12:01:02 how could i download openmoko to run on qemu? Jun 10 12:01:22 use mokomakefile Jun 10 12:01:29 look at wiki.openmoko.org ^^ Jun 10 12:09:07 sorry, i can't find Jun 10 12:11:44 SamuraiDio, have you look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu Jun 10 12:12:42 ahh, sure.. tnx Jun 10 12:26:39 the keyboard in the qtopia-x11 builds -- is that part of Qtopia or Illume? Jun 10 12:27:27 cbrake: illume Jun 10 12:27:46 XorA: neat -- it works well Jun 10 12:29:59 XorA: did you try and boot what you built with my updated recipe yesterday? Jun 10 12:30:29 dcordes: I didnt build it, OE/bitbake was broken and I thought I would wait for the fix to be committed Jun 10 12:30:53 ok I will make a test then right now Jun 10 12:36:49 * dcordes notices rm -rf tmp is not much of green IT lol Jun 10 12:46:50 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * rbe19093e7c77 10/ophoned/modems/ (7 files in 3 dirs): Jun 10 12:46:50 freesmartphone.org: python-ophoned: revamp call handling to use a full fledged state machine Jun 10 12:46:50 freesmartphone.org: Q: Do we get a dedicated %CPI for hold events or do we need to rely solely on CCWA/CCLD? Jun 10 13:23:29 is openmoko.org down? :O Jun 10 13:23:41 ah just joking it was my connection that was a bit weird... Jun 10 14:07:29 bal: Can you give a brief overview of what the MP3 unit can do? Can it be used to simply decode audio in a low-power way, if the CPU is running at 50MHz, and doing nothing more than reading the SD, transferring it to the decode unit on the GPU, reading the output data from a RAM buffer in the video RAM, and streaming it to a DAC? Jun 10 14:07:38 Oh - guess not. Jun 10 14:41:06 jep jep.. mass production has been started Jun 10 14:41:16 Woo! Jun 10 14:42:10 Woohoo! Jun 10 14:42:35 BTW, you might be careful about opkg installing anything from the 2007.2 repositories Jun 10 14:42:40 as in, avoid it like the plague Jun 10 14:42:46 It busted my gta01 :-( Jun 10 14:48:19 openmoko: 03thebohemian 07org.openembedded.dev * ra14b4ada5090 10/conf/distro/chinook-compat.conf: chinook-compat.conf: Updates Jun 10 14:48:19 openmoko: 03thebohemian 07org.openembedded.dev * r09611789cd98 10/conf/distro/chinook-compat.conf: merge of '4392736ce508627f703cfd1f8849601caf77f045' Jun 10 14:48:20 openmoko: 03rpurdie 07org.openembedded.dev * r40062726cf1d 10/classes/gtk-icon-cache.bbclass: gtk-icon-cache.bbclass: Remove '-' characters from function names fixing issues with recent bitbakes (from poky) Jun 10 14:48:21 openmoko: 03jeremy_laine 07org.openembedded.dev * rd6432e350528 10/classes/oestats-client.bbclass: oestats-client.bbclass: add the DEPENDS variable to task reports Jun 10 14:48:25 openmoko: 03likewise 07org.openembedded.dev * rff7011abb7ac 10/packages/mtd/mtd-utils_1.1.0.bb: mtd-utils-1.1.0: Removed DEFAULT_PREFERENCE=-1 later than scheduled. Jun 10 14:48:27 openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * r4a6c8434d816 10/packages/efl1/ (13 files): efl cvs bump PV in compliance with upstream Jun 10 14:48:30 openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * r6101351ad9a4 10/packages/mtd/mtd-utils_1.1.0.bb: merge of '854af845cc8e7d6a3ae568387115eb89f78fba82' Jun 10 14:48:35 openmoko: 03Laibsch 07org.openembedded.dev * rd86e72419140 10/packages/vnc/x11vnc_0.9.3.bb: x11vnc: add libxtst to DEPENDS. Closes 4282. Jun 10 14:48:38 openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r4efaa9143ae3 10/packages/linux/ (linux-omap2-git/beagleboard/defconfig linux-omap2_git.bb): linux-omap2 git: update to rc3 and remove v4l2 from defconfig since that's broken in rc3 Jun 10 14:48:42 openmoko: 03oe 07org.openembedded.dev * rcff5af5728fc 10/packages/vnc/x11vnc_0.9.3.bb: merge of '1b4c6de83b5df499179899a549a0e828450e5f48' Jun 10 14:48:47 openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * re80818f641c3 10/packages/linux/ (7 files in 2 dirs): linux-omap2 git: add patches to convert mcbsp to a platform device and add omap3 ASoC driver based on that (still missing the actual TWL4030 codec driver though) Jun 10 14:48:51 openmoko: 03oe 07org.openembedded.dev * r13d501764a44 10/packages/linux/ (7 files in 2 dirs): merge of '15e4e8f4f0911b6d7b063f78ad573c2face554e5' Jun 10 14:49:00 openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r3b520963bdd1 10/packages/dsplink/dsplink_1.50.bb: dsplink: fix pnum due to changed S Jun 10 14:49:03 openmoko: 03crofton 07org.openembedded.dev * r1520d5482614 10/packages/u-boot/ (files/sffsdr-u-boot.patch u-boot_git.bb): u-boot_git.bb : Add support for building u-boot for the Lyrtech Small Jun 10 14:49:06 openmoko: 03oe 07org.openembedded.dev * re6bd31d22212 10/ (69 files in 17 dirs): merge of '0e517dabcd24598274e65b9a372217fa56ffe66a' Jun 10 14:49:13 openmoko: 03likewise 07org.openembedded.dev * rb2f21b6a1c0d 10/contrib/mtn-bisect.sh: mtn-bisect.sh Jun 10 14:49:16 openmoko: 03likewise 07org.openembedded.dev * rd68a390ffcb9 10/ (185 files in 63 dirs): merge of '635b19191517f99ee151ae6157a22f5d56406238' Jun 10 14:49:17 CIA-44: _|_ Jun 10 14:49:19 openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * r1718f9e12b33 10/packages/python/python-efl.inc: python-efl.inc: remove bashisms to make the Ubuntu crew happy Jun 10 14:49:19 :-) Jun 10 14:49:26 openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * r79c89c854561 10/packages/python/python-efl.inc: merge of '4d6dbbd6409e2a93093659bf415ba3b79f7bc3f6' Jun 10 14:49:26 wow Jun 10 14:49:29 ;D Jun 10 14:49:29 openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * r573aa9a3be4d 10/packages/python/python_2.5.2.bb: python 2.5.2 sed hardcoded ccache out of Makefile and substitute with $(CCACHE). Closes #4144 Jun 10 14:49:32 openmoko: 03john_lee 07org.openembedded.dev * r24b0722180e8 10/packages/cacao/ (4 files in 2 dirs): cacao: add hg version 8190 and the corresponding cacaoh-native. Jun 10 14:49:41 openmoko: 03jeremy_laine 07org.openembedded.dev * r189fb6469aea 10/classes/base.bbclass: base.bbclass: add a METADATA_BRANCH variable Jun 10 14:49:44 openmoko: 03jeremy_laine 07org.openembedded.dev * r9d5b6b6b5a22 10/classes/oestats-client.bbclass: oestats-client.bbclass: report METADATA_BRANCH variable Jun 10 14:49:51 openmoko: 03Laibsch 07org.openembedded.dev * r89da4dbea2c0 10/packages/glibmm/ (glibmm_2.12.10.bb glibmm_2.14.2.bb glibmm_2.16.2.bb): glibmm: move up to latest stable release. fixes build problems in 4264. Jun 10 14:49:54 openmoko: 03Laibsch 07org.openembedded.dev * rdc18581e0da6 10/packages/ctorrent/ (ctcs_1.4.1.bb ctorrent.inc ctorrent_3.3.1.bb): ctorrent: add ctcs 1.4.1 and ctorrent 3.3.1. Closes 4278 and 2646. Jun 10 14:49:57 openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r3acb1fa10d43 10/packages/linux/linux-omap2_git.bb: linux-omap2 git: bump srcrev to get basic powermanagement support for omap3 Jun 10 14:49:59 someone decided that OM shall be finished within the next 2 hours or something Jun 10 14:50:00 lol Jun 10 14:50:06 openmoko: 03rpurdie 07org.openembedded.dev * r7b5871cc96e9 10/conf/bitbake.conf: bitbake.conf: Correctly export PATH variable Jun 10 14:50:09 openmoko: 03rpurdie 07org.openembedded.dev * r16c175cf364c 10/classes/image.bbclass: image.bbclass: Cleanup whitespace (from poky) Jun 10 14:50:16 openmoko: 03rpurdie 07org.openembedded.dev * rd8415190a7b0 10/classes/image.bbclass: image.bbclass: Remove use of bbimage (from poky) Jun 10 14:50:19 openmoko: 03rpurdie 07org.openembedded.dev * rc9cd6f7eb6cd 10/classes/devshell.bbclass: devshell.bbclass: Export variables used by the class (from poky) Jun 10 14:50:22 openmoko: 03john_lee 07org.openembedded.dev * r18312e93e37c 10/packages/cacao/ (8 files in 2 dirs): cacao: change hg rev to corresponding date. Jun 10 14:50:25 openmoko: 03rpurdie 07org.openembedded.dev * rc8b2691d45dd 10/packages/jpeg/ (5 files in 2 dirs): jpeg: Sync with poky, massively improve libtool handling and drop pointless sections of debian patch (200k of them) Jun 10 14:50:32 openmoko: 03thebohemian 07org.openembedded.dev * rd39a09a96bc4 10/ (88 files in 26 dirs): merge of 'be23a3d9c964660487451387d6318c3915ad5b51' Jun 10 14:50:39 openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r28dcab745916 10/classes/kernel.bbclass: kernel.bbclass: comment initramfs stuff till rootfs locking works properly (initramfs should be optional as well) Jun 10 14:50:41 commit fest Jun 10 14:50:42 openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * rdf4080e47a6f 10/packages/linux/linux-omap2-git/beagleboard/defconfig: linux omap2 git: disable omap mux driver because it breaks usb host Jun 10 14:50:45 openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r562188a3ff39 10/packages/linux/ (13 files in 5 dirs): gumstix-kernel: attempt to unbreak it, part #1 Jun 10 14:50:48 (137 lines omitted) Jun 10 14:50:50 openmoko: 03rpurdie 07org.openembedded.dev * r7450d8563520 10/packages/linux/linux-rp_2.6.24.bb: linux-rp-2.6.24: Update locomo keyboard patch for collie/poodle (#2367) Jun 10 14:50:55 openmoko: 03rpurdie 07org.openembedded.dev * rf54e56f5520f 10/packages/linux/linux-rp.inc: linux-rp.inc: Remove INITRAMFS_IMAGE setting. This is a personal (local.conf) or distro configuration option since its policy. Please discuss this on the mailing list or with me if you disagree. Jun 10 14:51:07 openmoko: 03rpurdie 07org.openembedded.dev * r7c49af0fba5f 10/packages/linux/linux-rp-2.6.24/hrw-hostapcard.patch: linux-rp-2.6.24: Uncondionally apply a number of patches, add missing patch from poky Jun 10 14:51:10 openmoko: 03rpurdie 07org.openembedded.dev * r0b269f64bb4f 10/packages/linux/linux-rp_2.6.24.bb: linux-rp-2.6.24: Uncondionally apply a number of patches, add missing patch from poky Jun 10 14:51:13 openmoko: 03rpurdie 07org.openembedded.dev * re7e42b20ce9b 10/packages/linux/ (12 files in 2 dirs): linux-rp-2.6.24: Sync defconfigs with Poky. Making the crypto modules builtin is wrong and compounds an existing space problem, the should be marked as autoloaded. Jun 10 14:51:21 openmoko: 03rpurdie 07org.openembedded.dev * r3db95c8dd511 10/packages/linux/ (17 files in 2 dirs): linux-rp-2.6.23: Sync with Poky in the same way as 2.6.24 Jun 10 14:51:30 openmoko: 03rpurdie 07org.openembedded.dev * r28e2f303b98b 10/packages/linux/ (30 files in 2 dirs): linux-rp: Add 2.6.25+2.6.26-rc4 version, making it the default for qemuarm, qemux86 and spitz so far (from poky) Jun 10 14:51:33 openmoko: 03rpurdie 07org.openembedded.dev * rc7000e3a415f 10/packages/v86d/ (v86d_0.1.3.bb v86d_0.1.5.bb): v86d: 0.1.3 -> 0.1.5 Jun 10 14:51:36 openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r6d6852c86382 10/packages/pkgconfig/ (7 files in 2 dirs): pkgconfig: sync with poky Jun 10 14:51:39 openmoko: 03oe 07org.openembedded.dev * r6c1801d8257d 10/packages/pkgconfig/ (7 files in 2 dirs): merge of '57b770a7023dbcdb2b9d6d1a19890a743793d79c' Jun 10 14:51:44 openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * rb1ed16425331 10/packages/angstrom/angstrom-zeroconf-audio.bb: angstrom zeroconf audio: add more RDEPENDS Jun 10 14:51:49 openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r6dff71cb3a7e 10/packages/libtool/libtool-cross_2.2.4.bb: libtool cross 2.2.4: check for dolt.m4 before trying to install it Jun 10 14:51:56 openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r218fbf791d85 10/packages/glib-2.0/ (3 files in 2 dirs): glib-2.0: add 2.16.3 from poky, patched to work with libtool 2.2.4, disabled by default for that reason Jun 10 14:52:01 openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r6290d2f2ec72 10/packages/libusb/ (3 files in 2 dirs): libusb: add libtool patch from poky, safe for general consumption Jun 10 14:52:04 openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * rb3e7bed39a28 10/packages/gstreamer/gst-plugins.inc: gst-plugins.inc: remove esound dependency Jun 10 14:52:09 openmoko: 03crofton 07org.openembedded.dev * rc53057f33fea 10/packages/linux/linux-omap1-2.6.25-omap1/defconfig: linux-omap1 : Use defconfig from kernel source. This boots in Angstrom, but Jun 10 14:52:12 openmoko: 03oe 07org.openembedded.dev * r8bce38cba6ec 10/packages/linux/linux-omap1-2.6.25-omap1/defconfig: merge of 'c0b4eb64db45d24b111a58d9ffb1b180e4d17137' Jun 10 14:52:19 openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r101b2e516753 10/packages/linux/ (9 files in 2 dirs): linux-omap2 git: enable smart reflex driver for beagleboard Jun 10 14:52:24 openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * rb397863aae8d 10/packages/freetype/freetype_2.3.5.bb: freetype: sanitize do_configure Jun 10 14:52:27 openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r666d6843e79a 10/packages/cairo/ (3 files in 2 dirs): cairo 1.6.4: add libtool patch Jun 10 14:52:32 openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r2e6c18b0896e 10/packages/libtiff/tiff_3.8.2.bb: tiff: update to 4.0.0beta2 for libtool fixes Jun 10 14:52:35 openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r45ca5fca89e0 10/packages/hal/ (9 files in 3 dirs): hal: sync with poky Jun 10 14:52:38 openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r2cd3bd5d85d0 10/packages/esound/ (esound_0.2.36.bb files/configure-fix.patch): esound: clean configure of 0.36 a bit Jun 10 14:52:43 (93 lines omitted) Jun 10 14:52:45 openmoko: 03bluelightning 07org.openembedded.dev * rd612d8725eb5 10/packages/libgpewidget/libgpewidget_0.115.bb: merge of '12044547859d68999d0a4712daf7bea26128696c' Jun 10 14:52:50 openmoko: 03oe 07org.openembedded.dev * r0a73a1d0820b 10/packages/libopie/libopie2/ipaq_rotate_fix.patch: merge of '3b5424db9b8ce0b7d550ad80e57b9462b0de36f8' Jun 10 14:52:55 openmoko: 03jeremy_laine 07org.openembedded.dev * rb7115a13483d 10/packages/linux/linux.inc: linux.inc: add a symlink from /boot/devicetree to /boot/devicetree-${KERNEL-VERSION} Jun 10 14:53:00 openmoko: 03xora 07org.openembedded.dev * ra9f716f6b8ff 10/packages/linux/linux-kaiser_2.6.24+git.bb: linux-kaiser_2.6.24+git.bb : update from dcordes Jun 10 14:53:03 openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * rc57a9186a394 10/packages/bash/ (bash.inc bash_3.2.bb): bash 3.2 change the way how mkbuiltin is compiled for host Jun 10 14:53:08 openmoko: 03likewise 07org.openembedded.dev * rc2c1080df794 10/packages/linux/ (3 files in 2 dirs): linux-rt-2.6.25: Bump to -rt6 and add efika. Note that -rt is unstable. Jun 10 14:53:13 openmoko: 03oe 07org.openembedded.dev * rc78107641d7c 10/packages/ (3 files in 2 dirs): merge of '2fce1b18b908ec5929c213cc29050175502a72a6' Jun 10 14:53:16 whoapappaapappapappapa Jun 10 14:53:16 openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * r90f5d132abc4 10/packages/bash/ (5 files in 2 dirs): bash 3.2 fix compiling, this time for real Jun 10 14:53:19 openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * r9dd5400d4732 10/packages/gstreamer/gst-plugin-pulse_0.9.4.bb: gst-plugin-pulse 0.9.4 remove buggy version, leaving 0.9.7 as the only working one Jun 10 14:53:26 openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * raff4422f2904 10/conf/distro/include/preferred-om-2008-versions.inc: preferred-om-versions: yank removed versions Jun 10 14:53:45 haha Jun 10 14:53:52 great so now all OM source updates are banned :-( Jun 10 14:54:07 only the log messages flooding irc Jun 10 14:54:19 but not for long, as that flood will be over soon, i guess Jun 10 14:54:31 we had that some time ago already Jun 10 14:54:34 I think you actually banned it after the last one anyway Jun 10 14:54:45 hrm Jun 10 14:54:52 well. lets check Jun 10 14:55:13 silence Jun 10 14:55:48 it was a noisy mofo anyhow Jun 10 14:56:16 ScaredyCat: the noisier it is the harder we are working Jun 10 14:56:38 * ScaredyCat coughs uncontrollably..... Jun 10 14:56:58 you need some Covonia Jun 10 14:56:58 for a in `find *` touch $a Jun 10 15:00:01 I need inspiration... Jun 10 15:00:13 I'm tempted by the dark sie Jun 10 15:00:16 side Jun 10 15:01:37 * mwester notes that all the commits were on the OE branch, not on the OM branches ;-) Jun 10 15:04:21 and now a netsplit... the IRC gods are unhappy this morning. Jun 10 15:10:26 ScaredyCat: Do your repositories still work for 2007.2? Jun 10 15:10:34 e.g. can I install openmoko-keyboard Jun 10 15:10:39 yes Jun 10 15:10:41 and other stuff w/o breaking my gta01? Jun 10 15:10:47 errm/.. Jun 10 15:10:55 K, I'll be swapping to your stuff tonight, I guess Jun 10 15:11:03 yeah,, iirc you can replace the multitap Jun 10 15:11:21 My standard post-install scripts, which just opkg install a bunch of stuff, broke my neo last night Jun 10 15:11:28 :o Jun 10 15:11:30 openmoko-today won't start Jun 10 15:11:46 and openmoko-keyboard is gone from the standard repositories Jun 10 15:12:02 ScaredyCat: That was my reaction, too Jun 10 15:14:19 afaik you don;t need the om kb Jun 10 15:14:29 if you want the matchbox kb Jun 10 15:15:08 I don't think matchbox kb is there any more either Jun 10 15:15:21 I did opkg list | grep keyboard and didn't see anything familiar :-( Jun 10 16:03:54 * daMaestro hopes that the price of the freerunner (maybe just following devices) will be able to compete with the $199 iphone :-/ Jun 10 16:04:04 lol Jun 10 16:04:20 however, i assume most of the price break is due to AT&T paying apple *a lot* of money Jun 10 16:04:23 for all the new contracts Jun 10 16:04:27 + 3G data plans Jun 10 16:04:54 * Tanuva doesnt understand why the neo is always being compared to the iphone Jun 10 16:05:07 * SpeedEvil thinks Tanuva is rather naive. Jun 10 16:05:30 It's a similar form factor, with overall similar featuers in many ways. Jun 10 16:05:44 At least as far as consumers are concerned on the hardware. Jun 10 16:06:16 but its in a state the iphone is not anymore - the time it was, we didnt know about it Jun 10 16:09:19 if they are really 100 pounds no legal obiligation to sign a contract and it can be jailbroken i would probably get one Jun 10 16:09:32 zedstar_: You have to sign a contract now Jun 10 16:09:44 wurp2; ah i thought as much Jun 10 16:10:16 i have an iphone and just walked in bought it for 169 pounds and unlocked it in 10 minutes which was a good deal Jun 10 16:10:34 if that was possible for 100 pounds i would do the same Jun 10 16:11:19 zedstar_: Have you been hacking on it? Jun 10 16:11:50 Reference regarding the contract: http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/10/1229226 Jun 10 16:11:51 wurp2 well yeh im working on a project using one Jun 10 16:12:11 zedstar_: Can you compare hackability & usability vs gta01? Jun 10 16:13:05 wurp2 well....it is messy.......not easy to compile for.....i ported some stuff....things like ruby build and just crash on the device Jun 10 16:13:43 wurp2 but i do everything from linux....cross compiler on linux etc so it is not too different than openmoko in that sense Jun 10 16:24:22 of course i would rather a freerunner than an iphone though! Jun 10 16:27:18 :-) Jun 10 16:27:34 It was a real disappointment last night when opkg installing some stuff broke my gta01 :-( Jun 10 16:28:47 is opkg broken ? i have not updated for a week or so and still seems to work so perhaps i shouldnt try and upgrade right now Jun 10 16:29:48 wurp2: got a debug board, and if no, where are you? Jun 10 16:36:03 SpeedEvil: It's not that badly broken Jun 10 16:36:07 I wasn't doing a uboot update Jun 10 16:36:21 I just need to dfu burn again and figure out what I can & can't update Jun 10 16:36:40 But right now, my phone can receive calls & that's it, because I didn't have time to burn yet again Jun 10 16:37:01 zedstar_: I definitely recommend against trying to opkg upgrade :-) Jun 10 16:37:19 openmoko-today died with a bunch of GLIBC issues, then some weird dbus problems Jun 10 16:37:51 SpeedEvil: But I don't have a debug board. That's why I almost never update uboot. Jun 10 16:38:03 Ah Jun 10 16:38:14 Broken was probably too strong a word to use Jun 10 16:38:20 wurp2 ah ok thanks for the tip Jun 10 16:38:31 But that's what it felt like when opkg installing some stuff made my neo no longer usable Jun 10 16:38:51 some stuff == some stuff I've opkg installed many times before Jun 10 16:49:49 so, is there someone present who cares about debugging these things, or should i just reboot and pray this problem goes away? :P Jun 10 16:50:13 (yes, that was a touch under trolling. *curses at taiwan*) Jun 10 16:51:16 i've got three days of uptime on my neo, in which its barely been used. something in X or the touchscreen driver has taken a walk. Jun 10 16:51:30 when i ssh'd into the machine, it had a load of 3.77. Jun 10 16:51:54 I had that Jun 10 16:51:58 i can unlock it.. but the whole interface acts like the device is amazingly loaded. Jun 10 16:52:07 I had a spate of oom-kill events in dmesg Jun 10 16:52:14 * juri_ checks. Jun 10 16:52:44 yepyep. Jun 10 16:53:02 hald invoked oom-killer. hald presently owns 56% of the systems memory. Jun 10 16:53:28 aparently, it decided to kill my openmoko-today application. Jun 10 16:54:06 so, would someone like to ssh into this unit while its malfunctioning, or should i just reboot it, and pray some developer we never hear from in taiwan has fixed it? Jun 10 16:54:55 juri_: If you're running the 2007.2 release (i.e. not ASU), I don't think any OM dev plans to work on it on company time :-( Jun 10 16:55:15 I do not work for OM, just to make that clear Jun 10 16:55:25 wurp2: i'm running whatever is current. i keep my unit up-to-date, and updated it *yesterday*. Jun 10 16:55:27 Just conveying impressions from chatting with them Jun 10 16:55:58 juri_: But, is it up to date ASU + Qtopia, or up-to-date old school OM? Jun 10 16:56:06 the only thing i did out of the ordinary, was set the time correctly. it jumped 8 days. Jun 10 16:56:33 I did an opkg install of some stuff on my OM last night and now openmoko-today won't come up at all Jun 10 16:56:35 wurp2: the difference being? (how do i tell?) Jun 10 16:56:54 i used openmokobuild about a month ago to build the image, and have kept it updated. Jun 10 16:57:12 so, whatever the makefile/qemu stuff builds. Jun 10 16:57:16 juri_: If you don't have the illume stuff (fancy sideways sliding) and Qtopia, you're running 2007.2 or some hybrid Jun 10 16:57:34 but again, mokomakefile builds two different things depending on the variable value Jun 10 16:57:55 nothing slides sideways. is there a package i can look for? Jun 10 16:58:03 OM_GIT_BRANCH Jun 10 16:58:17 i doubt thats a package name. :) Jun 10 16:58:22 the value is either org.openmoko.dev or org.openmoko.asu.dev or org.openmoko.asu.stable Jun 10 16:58:31 That is not a package name Jun 10 16:58:42 it is a variable in the mokomakefile that tells which branch you are building Jun 10 16:59:09 i'm not at my buildhost. is there something i can check on my openmoko? Jun 10 16:59:17 I'm not sure what it would be Jun 10 16:59:22 Because I've never run asu Jun 10 16:59:54 I know when I did opkg list | grep openmoko-keyboard last night, I got no results Jun 10 16:59:54 and that used to be there Jun 10 17:00:02 juri_: the hald memory issue is #1263 in OM's bugtracker Jun 10 17:00:03 no packages that start with q are installed. Jun 10 17:00:29 wurp2: technically, you should be doing 'opkg list_installed' Jun 10 17:00:47 list just lists available packages. (yea, not intuitive for us debianites) Jun 10 17:01:21 mmontour: thank you. at least i know this issue is being tracked. Jun 10 17:01:58 I am not worried about installed Jun 10 17:02:05 as a fellow dev, i know finding devices in these odd states is sometimes very valuable. so i dropped in, to see if i could offer ssh access to a 'malfunctioning' unit. Jun 10 17:02:05 I am worried about, does the package exist at all Jun 10 17:02:38 because I want it Jun 10 17:04:55 so, reboot time! Jun 10 17:06:18 for the record, if one of you wants to drop by #openmosix, and get snotty about my project, feel free. :P Jun 10 17:06:27 hi, is there anyone here with commit access to fso git repos...am gettign a remote host hung up error...can anyone confirm by pushing some dummy stuff..thanks Jun 10 17:06:55 also for the record, i just got informed that in this mode my phone is missing phone calls. Jun 10 17:09:51 (you guys move forward at about the same rate i do! :P ) Jun 10 17:18:02 i preorderet freerunner, wenn will i have it? Jun 10 17:18:23 from whom did you preorder it? Jun 10 17:18:30 lol Jun 10 17:19:05 trisoft Jun 10 17:19:32 damn im mixing 2 languages :D Jun 10 17:20:05 Qwell: trisoft, ? could u tell meß Jun 10 17:20:17 never heard of them.. Jun 10 17:20:18 Qwell: its a german reseller :/ Jun 10 17:20:28 Qwell: http://trisoft.de Jun 10 17:24:55 wenn is close genug Jun 10 17:26:55 Bish: I don't think anyone knows. Jun 10 17:27:17 Trisoft doesn't know when OM will get the phones to them, and OM doesn't know how long it will take trisoft to ship 'em Jun 10 17:27:31 I'm not sure OM knows when it will get the phones to trisoft :-) Jun 10 17:27:46 But hey, at least you got that pesky money out of your pocket Jun 10 17:27:53 does OM know when OM is getting phones to ship to trisoft? :) Jun 10 17:29:43 Qwell: Good point; I underestimated the total level of ignorance in the system. Jun 10 17:31:57 Qwell: OM does Jun 10 17:32:47 XorA: Then why don't we? ;-) Jun 10 17:33:13 wurp2: we get emails on status, but they are on a private list and Im not authorised to spread the word Jun 10 17:33:21 leak it Jun 10 17:33:26 wurp2: Im not sure what timezone the guy who spreads the word is in Jun 10 17:33:28 it's legally different :P Jun 10 17:34:21 heh Jun 10 17:35:12 problem with us being spread about the world is you guys spend most of your time interfacing with the .eu employees, but we get the least info :-) Jun 10 17:41:59 :-) Jun 10 17:43:05 XorA|gone: Why don't you not send the release date to me via private email at bobbymartin2 at gmail do t com and I won't tell anyone else. Jun 10 17:47:36 lolol Jun 10 17:50:03 wurp2: haha funny :P Jun 10 17:50:36 wurp2: trisoft takes my money when freerunner arrives Jun 10 17:50:46 We expect to start shipping the devices late may. In close cooperation with OpenMoko Jun 10 17:50:49 Bish: I promise not to tell you whenever XorA|gone doesn't tell me Jun 10 17:51:00 trisoft quote Jun 10 17:51:01 linuxxr: Late May? Jun 10 17:51:04 That's impressive! Jun 10 17:51:07 haha :D Jun 10 17:51:23 http://trisoft.de/en_index.html Jun 10 17:51:39 Bish: Wow, good deal! Jun 10 17:51:47 Preorder and don't apy until it ships Jun 10 17:52:13 .. -_- youre funny.. not Jun 10 17:52:26 bish what dist r in the middle usa? Jun 10 17:52:28 s/apy/pay/ Jun 10 17:52:28 wurp2 meant: Preorder and don't pay until it ships Jun 10 17:52:44 I thought OM was the US dist Jun 10 17:52:49 linuxxr: wut? Jun 10 17:53:16 distribution company in the usa? Jun 10 17:53:38 Bish: I really thought that was a good deal... don't most companies make you pay when you pre-order, not when it gets there? I don't think I've ever preordered something in my life. Jun 10 17:53:47 ah i c.. Jun 10 18:07:33 linuxxr: Openmoko, Inc. will handle distribution in the US Jun 10 18:44:31 wednesday the 23rd June Jun 10 18:44:43 25th Jun 10 18:44:47 wut Jun 10 18:45:41 thats a date when the freerunner wont be shipping Jun 10 18:47:23 Today is Sweetmorn, the 15th day of Confusion in the YOLD 3174 Jun 10 18:48:11 * XorA|gone smites SpeedEvil with his +6 GTA02 of Thundering Jun 10 18:49:01 GTA02 has -7 to thundering owing to having 1d0+1 speakers. Jun 10 18:49:32 * XorA|gone counted 1d1+1 Jun 10 18:50:23 not as good as the 2d1+1 in GTA01 Jun 10 18:51:07 * mwester blows the GTA02 of Thundering into little bits with the BFG10K Jun 10 18:51:21 mwester: a Beagleboard :-D Jun 10 18:54:28 Instant messaging hazards. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0563.html Jun 10 18:55:46 hi all Jun 10 18:56:07 where is the latest image for GTA01 (that one with illume) ? Jun 10 18:57:37 I see that upcoming release is for developers. Why is that? Is there a little of usable software? Jun 10 19:03:02 I hear asu is not very usable Jun 10 19:03:16 And 2007.2 appeared to be broken last night Jun 10 19:03:32 Ghiottone: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080609-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 (but I don't know if it works at all) Jun 10 19:04:57 mmontour, isn't that with qtopia? or am I missing something? Jun 10 19:05:32 Wow, I see openmoko-devel-images going right up to today Jun 10 19:05:41 Ghiottone: The ASU *is* with Qtopia Jun 10 19:05:48 It's not just raw Qtopia Jun 10 19:05:57 wurp2, oh great thanks! Jun 10 19:06:04 mmontour, thanks to you too Jun 10 19:06:04 It's (mostly working?) Qtopia plus (somewhat working?) other stuff Jun 10 19:06:14 I haven't used it :-) Jun 10 19:06:58 Ghiottone: If you want a good image take the images from ScaredyCat Jun 10 19:06:59 :) Jun 10 19:10:45 kdean06: Are you in? Jun 10 19:10:56 tobii_, got that one too. later I'll try them all :) Jun 10 19:10:58 thanks Jun 10 19:11:05 :) Jun 10 19:11:20 Ghiottone: Don't forget Zad Jun 10 19:11:37 Yep Jun 10 19:12:02 Did you notice that there are daily openmoko-devel-images again? Jun 10 19:12:11 Or do you care... are you going asu only for the future? Jun 10 19:13:53 Yes, I'm aware there are 2007.02 based images, but IIRC they're not actually being developed. Jun 10 19:14:44 ScaredyCat: where you at? Jun 10 19:16:37 kdean06: Someone's doing something on them Jun 10 19:17:09 'cause they broke 'em, or at least what I did last night updating from the 2007.2 repositories killed openmoko-today on my neo Jun 10 19:18:24 wurp2, zad Jun 10 19:18:28 ? Jun 10 19:18:36 wurp2, what's zad? Jun 10 19:21:50 Ghiottone: emdete's alternative software stack Jun 10 19:22:07 wurp2, Simple answer - I consider 2007.02 based images to be unofficial now, and I don't have the time or energy to review all of the possible unofficial images that might come around. Jun 10 19:22:23 If i were to cover an unofficial one, I think ScaredyCat's would have more value, honestly. Jun 10 19:23:02 kdean06: Sure Jun 10 19:23:06 and where can I get zad? Jun 10 19:23:12 I was just double checking :-) Jun 10 19:23:26 Ghiottone: It's a primarily python stack on top of OE Jun 10 19:23:34 Ghiottone: I would have to get googley on it to find it Jun 10 19:23:42 but it should be easy to find with "zad openmoko" Jun 10 19:25:54 thanks all. bye Jun 10 19:27:16 zad is at http://neo1973-germany.de/ Jun 10 19:28:36 pjz: Too late; he's gone Jun 10 19:28:53 kdean06: I think I'm going to have to switch to ScaredyCat's repositories until asu is up to snuff Jun 10 19:29:03 Or *maybe* switch to zad Jun 10 19:29:25 zad sounds like more hackey fun, but I will have to hack together a media player asap if I jump to it :-) Jun 10 19:29:43 and a terminal-ish app... and does zad have any keyboard? Jun 10 19:29:49 ack, maybe not zad yet Jun 10 19:30:54 wurp2: Keep in mind that zad follows a totally different approach which might not quite be what you expect Jun 10 19:31:38 abraxa_: I think I have something of a handle on the zad approach Jun 10 19:31:44 I've looked at pyneod & pyneog Jun 10 19:32:11 okay Jun 10 19:32:48 If you're interested to jump on the bandwagon I encourage you to talk to emdete Jun 10 19:32:49 I realize that it's different enough that I have to write a specific launcher last I checked to get an app to star tup Jun 10 19:32:55 I have talked with him some Jun 10 19:33:17 Well, zad has no concept of "applications" Jun 10 19:33:17 The "every parm list in dbus is a map" turned me off Jun 10 19:33:42 Why did it turn you off? Jun 10 19:33:43 abraxa_: I can kick off an application... it seems that I would have to write a python function to communicate with it, though Jun 10 19:34:03 because of the total lack of docs currently on dbus api Jun 10 19:34:18 and the totally nonstandard way of documenting once the docs exist Jun 10 19:34:36 You mean the lack of docs for zad's d-bus API? Jun 10 19:34:42 yeah Jun 10 19:34:54 Ah, that's understandable then Jun 10 19:35:05 I thought you had conceptional issues Jun 10 19:35:11 I mean, normally when I say lack of docs, it means "figure out what it does based on the name and parameters" Jun 10 19:35:31 but when it means "figure out what the parameters are by digging into the code", that's another level Jun 10 19:35:47 Well, I do have a conceptional issue, although in python it really comes down to a documentation issue Jun 10 19:36:03 Well, zad quite frankly isn't in a state where other developers can contribute too much, though that'll obviously change over time Jun 10 19:36:04 I like to see the expected parameters in the interface Jun 10 19:36:25 sure Jun 10 19:45:58 okay, I might be massively misinformed here, so maybe you can clear it up. What's the status of the gtk-based openmoko firmware? Is it still being developed, just not default on freerunner, or has it been dropped? Jun 10 19:46:42 I think you mean software Jun 10 19:46:46 not firmware Jun 10 19:46:55 ahm, yes, the software stack Jun 10 19:47:03 And I think it is mostly dropped, but really that's a question I just asked on community-devel Jun 10 19:47:33 Well, its firmwareness is a matter of taste really. I can see it being called that... Jun 10 19:47:40 I opkg installed some stuff from the gtk stack last night and it killed openmoko-today on my neo Jun 10 19:47:57 Zero_Dogg: Last I heard it is the default image on mass-produced Freerunners but I don't see development continuing Jun 10 19:48:03 Which is the app that is the launcher for all other apps :-/ Jun 10 19:48:28 mjr: From that point of view, all sw on the neo would be firmware... Jun 10 19:48:42 wurp2, well it is an embedded system... Jun 10 19:48:43 how will support for gtk be on the qt-based stack then, non-existant or still working? Jun 10 19:49:26 mjr: I guess, but what really distinguishes it from a PC? Jun 10 19:49:27 Zero_Dogg, well. The stack still uses X and is basically toolkit agnostic, the qtopia stuff is used for the phone functions, yes, but that shouldn't restrict other things Jun 10 19:49:36 wurp2, the case ;) Jun 10 19:49:44 :-) Jun 10 19:50:03 gtk will still work Jun 10 19:50:24 Zero_Dogg: The "qt-based" stack is only temporary as well. Qtopia and GTK are on the same level really. How well everything interacts... tough call. Jun 10 19:50:40 mjr: right, the point was more if it was going to be maintained/supported. I want to write stuff for it using gtk, but if that will get deprecated or not be properly maintained that will be an uphill battle (ie. I can't start maintaining gtk libs on my own) Jun 10 19:50:58 abraxa_: so the software stack is really up in the air at this point then? Jun 10 19:51:12 u have a fair point zero_dogg Jun 10 19:51:13 Zero_Dogg: I think gtk is as likely to be maintained long term as any UI framework is ;-) Jun 10 19:51:31 seem to be working hard on just a 'temporary' solution... Jun 10 19:51:43 Zero_Dogg: Under major development, rather. The ASU image is just an attempt to get something that end-users can use - it's not the be-all end-all Jun 10 19:51:53 right Jun 10 19:52:07 ljp: Yeah, to me this seems like the time to define your final targets carefully and go after them, if you're gonna do a rewrite Jun 10 19:52:21 anyone body walking in wanting to do GUI apps is gonna be confused for a while i guess Jun 10 19:52:29 Zero_Dogg: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenmokoFramework gives you an idea of how it'll be in the long run Jun 10 19:52:47 zedstar_: It seems to me that anybody coming in to do any kind of app is confused right now Jun 10 19:52:53 Since dbus is in flux too Jun 10 19:53:03 "# Be UI toolkit agnostic " - seems promising at least Jun 10 19:53:08 So the bottom and top of the stack are in motion. It makes building something for the middle tough. Jun 10 19:53:17 wurp2 yeh that is a fair point.....i am sticking to C and glib which has to remain for now Jun 10 19:53:22 Zero_Dogg: Yeah, that is supposed to be the plan Jun 10 19:53:28 zigg: global warming. Jun 10 19:53:30 oops Jun 10 19:54:06 I'm just doing python/gtk, and targeting dbus but settling on sysfs interfaces when necessary Jun 10 19:54:10 which is always, right now Jun 10 19:54:32 pygtk2 already runs on it? Jun 10 19:55:01 Zero_Dogg: python-gtk runs on it Jun 10 19:55:23 Not sure about gtk2... I am fairly ignorant of gtk, despite having written an app or two for it :-) Jun 10 19:55:24 wurp2: nice, maybe I can reuse code from maemo port then Jun 10 19:56:20 if i was a gambling man i wud probably go for qtopia if i wanted the most exposure Jun 10 19:56:59 or something that just worked :) Jun 10 19:57:15 qt has problems if you're thinking of developing commercial software. Jun 10 19:57:27 But aren't sure you can make it. Jun 10 19:59:33 Is there not a GUI agnostic framework in python? Jun 10 19:59:51 ljp when can we expect to see qt on symbian? :) Jun 10 20:00:00 It seems to me it would be fairly easy to build an agnosticator (tm) for python to let me code to one interface, then switch gui toolkits Jun 10 20:00:09 "just working" isn't really the image that I've gotten of qtopia from the OM guy who's actually trying to make it work Jun 10 20:00:50 but yeah, the original om stack wasn't really prime of course either Jun 10 20:00:56 all this iphone news lately has me wondering if there has been any talk about an openmoko with 3G? Jun 10 20:01:10 Qtopia did a pretty good impression of "just working" on the OM hardware (if you do the old basic Qtopia install) Jun 10 20:01:12 Sketch, "probably GTA04 someday" Jun 10 20:01:43 wurp2: killed om-t2 in what way? Jun 10 20:02:27 wurp2, that doesn't really count, as non-X qtopia is useless for interop, and apparently there's a lot lacking in the gsm area (for instance from what I gathered total ignoring of charsets) Jun 10 20:02:58 mjr: you can run X in qtopia instead :-) Jun 10 20:03:41 XorA|gone: I get a bunch of CRITICAL GLIBC messages when I try to start it manually Jun 10 20:03:51 XorA|gone: And then dbus appears to be down Jun 10 20:04:06 wurp2: damn, Ill bet thats the postinst bitbake problem Jun 10 20:04:06 XorA|gone: You're shitting me! Jun 10 20:04:14 You can run X in Qtopia? Jun 10 20:04:33 XorA|gone: I was installing opkgs from the standard repositories Jun 10 20:04:33 wurp2: you could in qtopia 2.X bet it wouldnt be hard to forward port Jun 10 20:04:40 XorA|gone: wow. Jun 10 20:04:43 You can certainly make it run in it. Then you have all the fun integration work ahead of you. Jun 10 20:04:57 mjr: Don't get me wrong, I much prefer the reverse :-) Jun 10 20:05:14 mjr: It just kind of shocked me that you could run it "upside down" like that Jun 10 20:05:16 wurp2: there is breakage in bitbake which means no postinst runs, Ill have to do an OE->OM merge soon probably to recover from breakage Jun 10 20:05:33 Yeah well. You can run framebuffer apps on it -> you can run X in it. Jun 10 20:05:35 last I looked Xqt even ran rootless Jun 10 20:06:09 so it just opened qtopia (thingiyes that look like windows) for each X window Jun 10 20:06:28 okay, that's good for it then Jun 10 20:06:38 better than I expected, granted Jun 10 20:06:55 XorA|gone: Woohoo, thanks Jun 10 20:06:57 zedstar_: can't comment on that. :) Jun 10 20:07:10 http://xqt.sourceforge.jp/ Jun 10 20:07:10 XorA|gone: I'm glad to hear someone knows what's wrong and has a notion of fixing it Jun 10 20:08:03 XorA|gone: So you think it updated my local bitbake, and then no postinst ran after that? Jun 10 20:08:15 for any of my new/upgraded opkgs Jun 10 20:08:37 ljp: can't they just replace the symbian part while they are at it as well ! Jun 10 20:08:43 wurp2: no, the build machine will have been running the busted bitbake for a while, so I suspect the packages are busted, I shall analyse tomorrow Jun 10 20:09:12 ah Jun 10 20:09:13 zedstar_: maybe. but doubtful. Jun 10 20:10:04 wow they really gonna flog that Psion OS to death! Jun 10 20:10:16 * XorA|gone was quite fond of Xqt on the zaurus Jun 10 20:10:31 * ljp wishes someone would port xqt to qt4 Jun 10 20:11:07 ljp: certainly turn peoples ideas upside down :-) Jun 10 20:11:22 :) true Jun 10 20:12:00 http://wiki.debian.org/PocketWorkstationXQT heh heh Jun 10 20:12:51 i need a creative friday project, maybe i should port xqt Jun 10 20:13:36 * XorA|gone can barely code C++ so no point me doing it Jun 10 20:13:44 its really too bad Sharp didnt support Zaurus very well, or update it at all Jun 10 20:14:20 ljp: its got to be the most overpowered mobile dictionary in history Jun 10 20:14:31 ljp: so much potential wasted by sharp Jun 10 20:14:41 agreed Jun 10 20:14:57 all my Z's are just gathering dust Jun 10 20:15:42 I sold my C860, still need to sell C3200 Jun 10 20:15:49 probably keep 5500 for old times sake Jun 10 20:16:20 i still have my two 5000d's . let my son play with them Jun 10 20:16:26 i have a c1000 which i dug out to try poky but it needs some lovin Jun 10 20:16:47 * XorA|gone loves the n810 now Jun 10 20:16:47 but all the z's at work are thick with dust Jun 10 20:17:13 * zedstar_ agrees about n810 Jun 10 20:17:21 it is only gadget i use Jun 10 20:17:25 n810 is ok, the keyboard sucks Jun 10 20:17:39 * mwester loves his n800 - best $200 he ever spent. Jun 10 20:17:41 better than the iphone on screen one :) Jun 10 20:17:45 maemo is too proprietaryhappy :þ Jun 10 20:17:56 yeah, but it works. well. Jun 10 20:18:21 its wierd that the n8x0 has same screen res as my eeePC :-) Jun 10 20:18:27 whatever's inside that wifi chip and firmware, it works better than anything else I've got! Jun 10 20:18:28 i have to be contacted on skype so the n810 is very handy for that Jun 10 20:18:30 just wish I had real debian on the n8x0 Jun 10 20:18:49 skype leaks in everywhere Jun 10 20:18:56 skybah Jun 10 20:19:01 I guess there is a qtopia version as well :-D Jun 10 20:19:14 i dont like using it but lets me work at home Jun 10 20:20:22 i can even BS i am home by responding to text messages on it while out Jun 10 20:20:36 connected via GSM to phone Jun 10 20:21:01 * ljp has a skypephone from 3 Jun 10 20:21:41 soon to have an E90 Jun 10 20:21:49 mwester: i love my zaurus, but i'm not sure it's the best $500 i ever spent ;) Jun 10 20:22:29 the costs of being a gadget geek!!! Jun 10 20:22:35 if it had a built in phone, it probably would be Jun 10 20:23:04 i still love the clam shell form factor of the zaurus Jun 10 20:23:11 Sketch: get a gsm cf card Jun 10 20:23:32 RTM-8000 works well on zaurus Jun 10 20:23:55 ljp: i have a bluetooth CF card, and a 3G phone with BT...requires 2 pockets though ;) Jun 10 20:24:26 well if its a CXX00 zaurus, use a usb 3G modem :-) Jun 10 20:47:38 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r6c573d489811 10/packages/efl1/evas_cvs.bb: [evas] Bump the PR because the config changed Jun 10 20:47:38 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r983eba6df660 10/packages/efl1/evas_cvs.bb: Merge commit '6c573d4' into org.openmoko.asu.dev Jun 10 20:50:21 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r92c06719534c 10/packages/efl1/evas_cvs.bb: fix evas build to disable threads, and clean up formatting Jun 10 20:50:22 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r12c34620d922 10/packages/efl1/evas_cvs.bb: [evas] Bump the PR because the config changed Jun 10 21:15:53 fuck .. no 3G for GTA03 Jun 10 21:16:25 fuck .. no VGA for GTA03 Jun 10 21:16:28 not a massive surprise Jun 10 21:16:36 on 3g Jun 10 21:16:56 does anyone here have any contacts in an arm cpu company? :) Jun 10 21:16:58 josch: hmm? Jun 10 21:17:16 doc? Jun 10 21:17:24 I wonder what for Jun 10 21:17:31 josch, do you know something we don't or are you jumping to conclusions on raster's incoherence? :] Jun 10 21:17:37 IT WORKS!!! Jun 10 21:17:46 squashfs-lzma on the neo!! Jun 10 21:17:56 woglinde: was a joke, so someone can get someone of their arse to offer better cpus so there can be both vga *and* ooohshineh!ness Jun 10 21:17:56 what is that? ^^ Jun 10 21:18:36 mjr, i'm just jumping to conclusions ^^ - no rly want to make sure that we as the community stay together in wanting VGA Jun 10 21:19:21 is there anybody preferring bling over vga resolution?? Jun 10 21:19:34 (except raster) Jun 10 21:19:56 yeah, I was kind of wondering, is raster not the management mentioned? :) Jun 10 21:20:39 fic-gta01:~/sqlzma# lsmod | grep squashfs Jun 10 21:20:39 squashfs 40300 0 Jun 10 21:20:43 <= great Jun 10 21:27:13 doc|work: I know a guy who does linux stuff at freescale Jun 10 21:27:15 josch: How much compression are you getting from squashfs? Are you using it on the flash, or just sd right now? Jun 10 21:27:35 josch: Or is it too early to answer those questions? Jun 10 21:27:43 pjz: can he get some words in the right ears and ask them for better processors? :) Jun 10 21:27:59 wurp2, of course not Jun 10 21:28:07 i get 22% compression ratio Jun 10 21:28:10 doc|work: hh, I doubt it. He has an uphill battle getting them to integrate their code properly into mainline Jun 10 21:28:12 pjz: maybe tell them that this could be to phones what the ibm pc was to hobby computers? :) Jun 10 21:28:25 shame :/ Jun 10 21:28:37 doc|work: oh, he's a convert, no doubt, though iirc he said something about the openmoko folk not playing too nicely with the uboot guys Jun 10 21:28:45 hmm Jun 10 21:29:28 doc|work: not prepping their patches proeprtly, touching a bunch of cruft, doing patch drops based on 6mo old trees - the usual stuff that happens when corps try to do opensource Jun 10 21:29:34 doc|work: which I kind of figured openmoko wouldn't do Jun 10 21:30:11 pjz: Those things sound pretty much unavoidable for anyone not integrated into a culture trying to do patches for code in that culture Jun 10 21:30:21 pjz: Especially when doing them under a time crunch Jun 10 21:30:24 doc|work: re: vga, has anyone treid a USB VGA dongle on a GTA02 Jun 10 21:30:54 doc|work: perhaps Jun 10 21:32:09 VGA thingies only work on USB2 Jun 10 21:32:11 AIUI Jun 10 21:32:27 also, is there another usb port? Jun 10 21:32:39 or are you talking about video out? Jun 10 21:33:05 doc|work: I meant video out Jun 10 21:33:13 if the system can't handle vga on the device, it won't be able to handle tv out :/ Jun 10 21:33:19 (not at a decent fps) Jun 10 21:33:32 SpeedEvil: oic, thx Jun 10 21:33:48 tv output is higher res than 320x240 or whatever, although it could be scaled Jun 10 21:33:50 doc|home: there are two USB devices. One is host, and connected to teh bluetooth. Jun 10 21:34:02 One is host/device, and is connected to the port. Jun 10 21:34:28 SpeedEvil: yeah, I thought he meant to get around some device limit, but if it's tv out then it's not a problem as he'll only be using the one anyway and could work with the y cable Jun 10 21:34:36 afaik Jun 10 21:39:26 Filesystem size 13815.73 Kbytes (13.49 Mbytes) Jun 10 21:39:26 18.45% of uncompressed filesystem size (74867.21 Kbytes) Jun 10 21:39:26 Inode table size 126932 bytes (123.96 Kbytes) Jun 10 21:39:26 19.85% of uncompressed inode table size (639411 bytes) Jun 10 21:39:26 Directory table size 131259 bytes (128.18 Kbytes) Jun 10 21:39:27 31.01% of uncompressed directory table size (423294 bytes) Jun 10 21:39:32 wurp2, impressed? ;) Jun 10 21:41:12 wow, yes! Jun 10 21:41:27 I thought your 22% was 22% off full size, not 22% *of* full size Jun 10 21:41:30 i think it was worth the last month of effort ;) Jun 10 21:41:38 lolol Jun 10 21:41:44 you underestimate lzma Jun 10 21:41:49 gzip is at 35% Jun 10 21:41:59 It depends on the content distribution Jun 10 21:42:05 as I know you know Jun 10 21:42:12 i only ditribute wikipedia Jun 10 21:42:26 Oh! So that compression is on wikipedia Jun 10 21:42:34 you dont know mokopedia?? Jun 10 21:42:37 I do Jun 10 21:42:43 it is brewing around since last year Jun 10 21:42:45 But you were talking about squashfs earlier Jun 10 21:43:00 and finally it gets out of being a hackish something Jun 10 21:43:07 So I thought you were talking about the compression on your rootfs Jun 10 21:43:09 i can also compress the english one now Jun 10 21:43:21 this demo compression was from linux kernel source Jun 10 21:43:24 I need to try mokopedia once I get my neo functional again :-) Jun 10 21:43:46 getting mokopedia running is no big deal apart from squashfs ;) Jun 10 21:43:52 josch: Yeah, but I'll bet it's not nearly as good in the more realistic situation of compression ratio on a standard rootfs Jun 10 21:44:17 why would you want to compress a rootfs?? Jun 10 21:44:32 Because the space is small... Jun 10 21:44:46 squashfs is readonly Jun 10 21:44:50 People can't install asu on gta01 because the rootfs is too big, last I heard Jun 10 21:44:55 this it why it can be so small Jun 10 21:45:05 You mean the binary? Jun 10 21:45:13 squashfs is for readonly media like cdrom Jun 10 21:45:18 Because for compression it shouldn't matter if it's read only Jun 10 21:45:28 no the squashfs filesystem is readonly Jun 10 21:45:45 I meant, you mean why the binary is so small Jun 10 21:45:53 or you mean why the compressed data is so small Jun 10 21:46:19 the compressed data can be so small because it doesnt care about possible data added later Jun 10 21:46:37 It wouldn't take very much extra space to let it care Jun 10 21:46:53 this is what filesystems like jffs2 are for Jun 10 21:47:06 devote 4 bytes in every 500 to possibly point to an extension off somewhere else on disk Jun 10 21:48:12 ...overlay filesystem... Jun 10 21:48:31 this would make more sense Jun 10 21:49:45 My point was not the best way to implement it Jun 10 21:50:00 My point was to refute the notion that it being a read-only fs is what made it compress well Jun 10 21:51:03 Not that that's important, except in that you could create a compressed fs that could be used for the rootfs Jun 10 21:52:59 now did the first reading benchmarks Jun 10 21:53:02 real 0m0.121s Jun 10 21:53:29 for a 24K file, which is a normal wikipedia article Jun 10 21:55:40 Anyway, the only reason I brought up the idea of compressing the rootfs is because I though that's what you're doing Jun 10 21:55:50 For which 22% of original size is friggin amazing Jun 10 21:56:07 22% of original size on wikipedia is impressive, but not friggin amazing :-) Jun 10 21:56:34 read speeds very very nice, too Jun 10 21:56:49 right, because squashfs restrains you to 1MB blocks - would be better compression with larger blocks Jun 10 21:57:28 i decomressed 135MB squashfs-lzma in 57seconds Jun 10 21:57:35 is this amazing? Jun 10 21:58:03 on the neo? Jun 10 21:58:23 where else???? Jun 10 21:58:47 josch, O-o, that seems rather fast Jun 10 21:59:14 hehe Jun 10 21:59:21 lzma is known for being fast Jun 10 21:59:23 I would expect lzma to almost decompress as fast as the disk read/write ops could go Jun 10 21:59:31 it's slower than gzip but faster than bzip2 Jun 10 21:59:32 but it's very nice that it's actually doing that :-) Jun 10 21:59:33 josch, especially compared to bz2 Jun 10 21:59:47 i actually did quite a bit of testing with that once Jun 10 22:00:07 got pcbsd to switch from bzip to lzma :) sped up the install by like 4-5 minutes Jun 10 22:00:19 Hmm, it kind of surprises me that speed difference is notable in any of the cases, compared to r/w speeds Jun 10 22:00:33 cpus are *fast* Jun 10 22:02:15 oh and btw Jun 10 22:02:28 i'm searching for someone doing the english wikipedia dump for me Jun 10 22:02:37 would take three weeks on my box Jun 10 22:02:48 the more cores the better Jun 10 22:03:58 Are there less aggressive compression settings? And do they make that much difference in final size? Jun 10 22:04:21 ? Jun 10 22:04:29 what settings? Jun 10 22:11:06 josch: Can you not make it less aggressive in finding the most effective letter subsequences to replace? Jun 10 22:11:33 you mean making lzma compression faster? Jun 10 22:11:36 yeah Jun 10 22:12:01 the lzma compression takes only 1/8 of the whole compression time Jun 10 22:12:16 so there are other compressions after the lzma? Jun 10 22:12:26 of course Jun 10 22:12:31 Or do you just mean there are other things that happen than just the lzma number crunching? Jun 10 22:12:37 but feore not after Jun 10 22:12:44 why "of course"? Jun 10 22:13:13 because wikipipedia pages are a lot redundant Jun 10 22:13:23 one can remove a lot without destroying anything Jun 10 22:13:35 set a huge dictionary size Jun 10 22:13:41 no Jun 10 22:14:01 this is impossible since the filesystem bloxksize is limited to 1MB Jun 10 22:14:12 more would only increase the decompression time Jun 10 22:14:13 oh right Jun 10 22:14:40 well, lzma is reducing redundancy too (compression by definition...) Jun 10 22:14:43 but I see what you mean Jun 10 22:14:57 redundancy that you can trim out by more obvious means Jun 10 22:15:12 there was this one compressing fs that i remember, it would somehow reference parts of the blocks to each other Jun 10 22:15:25 for example removing the header and footer of each xhtml page seems quite obvious Jun 10 22:15:53 :-) Jun 10 22:16:53 one can then remove script tags, title attributes, html comments, unnessecary spaces... Jun 10 22:17:22 this cleaning is done by a xslt script Jun 10 22:17:28 the rly slow part Jun 10 22:17:33 is the php generating the xhtml Jun 10 22:17:52 You mean the page load from wikipedia? Jun 10 22:18:08 adding the xslt adds (as my benchmarks tell me) only up to 6 hours of compression time Jun 10 22:18:21 wurp2, you mean what? Jun 10 22:18:46 "the php generating the xhtml" == the time to load the page from wikipedia? Jun 10 22:18:54 Or are you generating on your local machine? Jun 10 22:19:15 from some magic copy of the wikipedia raw data that I was unaware was avialable? Jun 10 22:19:56 aren't there raw snapshots somewhere? Jun 10 22:20:00 lololol Jun 10 22:20:06 loading from wikipedia?? Jun 10 22:20:10 this would be insane Jun 10 22:20:15 leeching is evil!! Jun 10 22:20:41 wikipedia provides xml snapshots of its databaes Jun 10 22:20:50 i import this into a local mediawiki install Jun 10 22:21:06 and then dump the stuff to optimized (stripped down) xhtml files Jun 10 22:21:48 josch, what machine you running this on? Jun 10 22:22:18 Wouldn't it make more sense to write an xslt that goes against the raw xml db and generates your target, stripped, pages to compress? Jun 10 22:22:21 athlon x2 3600 Jun 10 22:22:35 wurp2, no Jun 10 22:22:39 it is insane to render via php then send that thru xslt when the source is xml Jun 10 22:22:42 the xml is around pure wikitext Jun 10 22:22:44 josch, pffft, you should have an octocore there Jun 10 22:22:46 ah Jun 10 22:22:59 so it couldn't be xslt, or at least not good xslt Jun 10 22:24:45 wurp2, xslt can only process xml - the php is there to deal with the wikitext Jun 10 22:24:57 josch: xslt can only process xml *well* Jun 10 22:25:04 hello, i've just seen that http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2008#Targeted_SELinux_Policy_For_OpenMoko , and you use flash memory... can selinux attributes be deployed on flash ? Jun 10 22:25:15 wurp2, right Jun 10 22:25:59 s/deployed/used Jun 10 22:26:40 GNUtoo: the physical medium shouldn't matter... Jun 10 22:27:00 GNUtoo: I don't know anything about selinux attributes, but it should be at a filesystem level or higher Jun 10 22:27:13 GNUtoo: But someone would have to port that stuff over Jun 10 22:27:20 wurp2, so you don't use filesystem such as jffs2? Jun 10 22:27:38 GNUtoo: And since right now the OM comes with the root password hard set to the empty string, I think selinux is the least of your worries Jun 10 22:27:43 GNUtoo: It does... Jun 10 22:27:51 Hmm, maybe I'm crazy Jun 10 22:28:05 You're right Jun 10 22:28:33 selinux security context labels and stuff are in extended attributes Jun 10 22:28:36 don't know if jffs does them Jun 10 22:28:45 The fs is specific to the hw because the hw has weird characteristics (limited # of writes) Jun 10 22:29:35 seems like EAs are being talked about for jffs3 Jun 10 22:29:39 wurp2, from wikipedia: There has been work on other distributions such as Familiar, but some of this was ceased due to technical reasons (the Familiar work was abandoned when SELinux needed extended attributes which were not supported in the JFFS2 filesystem). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security-Enhanced_Linux Jun 10 22:29:47 GNUtoo: But first you would want someone to fix it so every Tom, Dick & Harry with any kind of shell/ssh/whatever access to your device can't login in as root w/ no password Jun 10 22:30:07 wurp2, ok Jun 10 22:30:13 GNUtoo: Thanks. I recognize now that I was being crazy :-) Jun 10 22:30:50 wurp2, but it will be possible to change the root password no? Jun 10 22:30:54 GNUtoo: It still seems to me the right solution for flash woulda been to build a fs that can be the baseline for another fs Jun 10 22:31:04 GNUtoo: I have read that it is deeper than that Jun 10 22:31:20 unionfs? Jun 10 22:31:22 GNUtoo: I haven't actually tried on my box, but I've read that people tried to change the root pwd and had some issue Jun 10 22:31:31 wurp2, ok Jun 10 22:31:44 such as? Jun 10 22:32:00 GNUtoo: Sorry dunno Jun 10 22:32:07 wurp2, ok np Jun 10 22:32:15 Searching the openmoko-devl or community-request ml may turn something up Jun 10 22:32:20 a spesific flash filesystem can be smarter on a flash than a generic filesystem on a load balancer Jun 10 22:33:08 GNUtoo: I wasn't thinking like unionfs; I was thinking that the part of the fs that tells how to write data to the medium should be separate from the part that decides what metadata goes with your files/inodes Jun 10 22:33:21 ok Jun 10 22:33:46 mjr: I can see that it would be easier to make it smart Jun 10 22:34:01 mjr: It just surprises me that it's enough of a difference to be worth the trade-off Jun 10 22:35:08 not that simple load balancers and generic fses aren't being used everywhere anyway... Jun 10 22:37:12 Later, guys! Congrats, josch, on the squashfs work! Jun 10 22:37:30 wurp2, cb22[eee] you can check out what i documented so far here: http://mokopedia.mister-muffin.de Jun 10 22:37:33 wurp2|away, noo Jun 10 22:37:35 :D Jun 10 22:37:56 * cb22[eee] has a random thought wave Jun 10 22:38:10 a nice openmoko manager gui Jun 10 22:38:24 like itunes, but way cooler :) Jun 10 22:38:43 sounds awesome Jun 10 22:38:53 what the hell is itunes?? Jun 10 22:39:02 am i in the wrong channel? Jun 10 22:39:08 josch, just wondering with mokopedia... Jun 10 22:39:20 xplain plox Jun 10 22:39:22 is storing html files the most efficent way? Jun 10 22:39:23 josch: it takes your music, converts it into some drm apple format, then kills you with it Jun 10 22:39:27 lots of fun Jun 10 22:39:46 cb22[eee]: as in a remote management thingy? Jun 10 22:39:52 doc|work, kindof Jun 10 22:40:02 what i'm thinking of is something modularish Jun 10 22:40:04 cb22[eee], whats your question? Jun 10 22:40:13 is storing html files the most efficent way? Jun 10 22:40:58 like for transferring music / videos / wikipedia / gps maps / anything to your phone Jun 10 22:41:14 through lots of different ways: wifi, bluetooth, usb or even gprs Jun 10 22:41:21 cb22[eee], yeah i hope it does so Jun 10 22:41:29 oh yeah, cool, good idea, given we don't have usb mass storage Jun 10 22:42:54 and what could happen, is the phone presents a small fs as mass storage, which contain the usb ethernet drivers for windows, and the management software Jun 10 22:43:09 (which would be written in python :) Jun 10 22:43:12 kitchen sink Jun 10 22:43:31 doc|work, hmm? Jun 10 22:44:00 you left out the kitchen sink :) Jun 10 22:44:19 ah, maybe kitchen sinK :p Jun 10 22:45:28 is there a charger for the moko included in the purchase? Jun 10 22:46:20 openmoko: 03zecke * rf8c0ff5def18 10/BUGS.x11: [bugs] Start discussing the open bugs with myself Jun 10 22:46:21 openmoko: 03zecke * rce5311a7aea6 10/src/libraries/qtopia/qtopiaapplication.cpp: [lifecycle] move the lifecycle definition after the QtopiaApplicationData declaration Jun 10 22:46:22 openmoko: 03zecke * rb715886545dc 10/src/libraries/qtopia/qtopiaapplication.cpp: [lifecycle] Prepare the code for changes Jun 10 22:46:22 openmoko: 03zecke * r749d05be2eed 10/ (BUGS.x11 src/libraries/qtopia/qtopiaapplication.cpp): [lifecycle] Do not quit before we have processed QCOP application data Jun 10 22:46:24 openmoko: 03zecke * rea66d89b6c09 10/BUGS.x11: [bugs] Document the dbmigratetask performance annoyance Jun 10 22:46:27 openmoko: 03zecke * r8e9a4d7fcab9 10/BUGS.x11: [bugs] Callhistory is not updated when the addressbook changes Jun 10 22:47:39 :) Jun 10 22:48:06 cb22[eee], if you have further questions plz read http://mokopedia.mister-muffin.de/ - I'm going to bed now. if anything is not answered there msg me and i will answer tomorrow Jun 10 22:48:14 goodnight mokos! Jun 10 22:49:07 night Jun 10 22:49:07 night josch Jun 10 23:17:44 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r99884bb0b9bf 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade Qtopia to have "Save to Contacts" fixed Jun 10 23:17:44 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rbdf536164542 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade ninja to get the Green bar selected animator Jun 10 23:17:45 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rcd847be2bcc8 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [srcrev] Upgrade assassin to get animation changes Jun 10 23:55:45 openmoko: 03werner * r4483 10/developers/werner/nandpart/ (8 files): Document describing old and new NAND partitioning scheme. (Work in progress.) Jun 11 00:04:17 Hey Jun 11 00:04:25 I always seem to miss all the fun here. Jun 11 00:05:11 I hope there have been some usability upgrades for my GTA01 since the last time I was here a month or so ago. Jun 11 00:05:46 re avoine Jun 11 00:06:23 hi Jun 11 00:07:12 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r47197540b27c 10/ophoned/ (modems/ti_calypso/mediator.py ophoned): Jun 11 00:07:12 freesmartphone.org: python-ophoned: fix numbering in state machine, make ti_calypso the Jun 11 00:07:12 freesmartphone.org: default (for now) Jun 11 00:08:17 thomasg: fear not, I'm not dropping PA. i fell in love with it again. Jun 11 00:09:14 Prince Albert? Jun 11 00:09:42 nearly Jun 11 00:09:42 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r52bcd388a2e1 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-qtopia-x11.bb: [asu] Install the Openmoko Gtk+ theme to make gtk+ apps look like OM2007.2 Jun 11 00:09:46 PulseAudio, actually Jun 11 00:10:36 Oh. Pensylvania was going to be my second guess. Jun 11 00:10:56 heh Jun 11 00:15:19 http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=208403011 Jun 11 00:15:23 iphone bom Jun 11 00:19:03 (Bill of materials) Jun 11 00:21:35 Well it's quite obvious that they want to profit from iphone =D Jun 11 00:28:16 gnight Jun 11 00:29:34 n8 Jun 11 01:32:37 ScaredyCat: Are you there? Jun 11 01:32:47 Does anyone know the latest good ScaredyCat image? Jun 11 01:46:47 holy crap Jun 11 01:46:59 ScaredyCat's boot looks very different than the norm Jun 11 01:47:09 cool, but different Jun 11 01:48:30 different, but slow Jun 11 01:48:40 or maybe different, but locked up Jun 11 01:49:25 wurp2|away: lol Jun 11 01:49:27 where is he! Jun 11 01:49:28 ScaredyCat: ! Jun 11 01:52:38 Hey, it did boot Jun 11 01:52:44 It looks good Jun 11 01:52:47 Let the poor guy sleep! :D Jun 11 01:52:53 Except I can see up his nose, and I'd rather not. Jun 11 01:53:06 afk again Jun 11 02:00:24 fg Jun 11 02:00:26 err Jun 11 02:00:27 sorry **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jun 11 02:59:56 2008