**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun 19 02:59:57 2008 Jun 19 04:56:37 hi everyone, I installed embedded.dev development environment, the error occurred, please guide: Jun 19 04:56:37 ben@ben-desktop:~/oe/stuff$ mtn --version Jun 19 04:56:37 monotone 0.37 (base revision: c21eefc002b8f9c430e9f4cc16c4af7b852f54ec) Jun 19 04:57:14 ben@ben-desktop:~/oe/stuff$ mtn --db=/home/ben/oe/stuff/OE.mtn pull monotone.openembedded.org org.openembedded.dev Jun 19 04:57:14 mtn: doing anonymous pull; use -kKEYNAME if you need authentication Jun 19 04:57:14 mtn: connecting to monotone.openembedded.org Jun 19 04:57:14 mtn: network error: failed to connect: tiem out Jun 19 04:57:28 ~pastebin Jun 19 04:57:29 [~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste Jun 19 04:57:55 wukong, maybe the server is currently offline? Jun 19 04:58:01 i would try again in a few hours Jun 19 04:59:46 I have repeatedly linking the case, you have such a mistake? Jun 19 05:09:27 wukong: the development environment no longer uses monotone Jun 19 05:10:08 ooh 4th of july Jun 19 05:10:11 I think the instructions you are following are out of date. Jun 19 05:10:15 before iphone even if that is on time... Jun 19 05:10:32 * hfsplus saves money for a phone. Jun 19 05:11:53 it seems git? Jun 19 05:12:56 mwester: it seems git? Jun 19 05:13:25 Huzzah. Saw the latest Update. Just in time for me to stop getting paychecks, and start getting unemployment! Perfect time to buy an openmoko :P Jun 19 05:13:40 wukong: yes, it is now git. Jun 19 05:15:08 mwester:You have to update the document, I can not find how Jun 19 05:16:18 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Mokomakefile Jun 19 05:17:25 tks Jun 19 05:19:11 What is the difference between monotone and git? Jun 19 05:19:27 opendeep, google around Jun 19 05:29:02 git be used kernel Jun 19 05:32:13 is openmoki going to be ported to bsd? Jun 19 05:44:33 hi ,new Mokomakefile error:( [ -e stamps/bitbake ] && \ Jun 19 05:44:33 [ -e bitbake/.git ] ) || \ Jun 19 05:44:33 ( git clone -n git://git.openmoko.org/git/bitbake.git bitbake ) Jun 19 05:44:33 Initialized empty Git repository in /home/embed/openmoko/bitbake/.git/ Jun 19 05:44:33 fatal: unable to connect a socket (Connection timed out) Jun 19 05:44:33 fetch-pack from 'git://git.openmoko.org/git/bitbake.git' failed. Jun 19 05:44:35 make: *** [setup-bitbake] Error 1 Jun 19 06:24:50 build failed at linux-openmoko_2.6.24 Jun 19 06:33:27 morning Jun 19 06:36:37 mbuf mines break yesterday at that point (create a directory) at: {OM_DIR}/build/tmp/work/om-gta01-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-1_2.6.24+git20080618-ro/install Jun 19 06:37:30 but now, some prefered glibc version is missing Jun 19 06:38:33 methril, why only the 618, and not the 619? Jun 19 06:38:50 it could be the 619 Jun 19 06:39:06 mine was the 618 because was yesterday Jun 19 06:39:07 :D Jun 19 06:40:13 it's still not working Jun 19 07:02:42 methril, if it didn't build for us, how come they have a build image here for June 17, 18? http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/ Jun 19 07:02:56 good morning Jun 19 07:03:26 Hopscotch, morning Jun 19 07:03:27 some missing things Jun 19 07:03:29 := Jun 19 07:03:31 :) Jun 19 07:03:37 it's compiling right now Jun 19 07:03:41 i was out of space Jun 19 07:03:46 methril: for glibc, is it an mmap error ? I built successfully the asu.dev branch 2 days ago Jun 19 07:04:46 or, is it possible in OM or OE images for a specific date? Jun 19 07:06:09 mbuf this is in development, Jun 19 07:06:17 methril, ok Jun 19 07:06:24 i think that it's normal that has errors Jun 19 07:07:01 they are temporal, but it takes so long then... until the error doesn't happens, you can not fix it Jun 19 07:07:10 methril, if we had an index of packages, and their version used on a particular build, we could just use that list to repeat builds Jun 19 07:07:11 :) Jun 19 07:07:39 maybe they have to make some "stable" images Jun 19 07:08:34 will the Freerunner come with a preloaded OS or will we be required to build that ourselves? Is this in some FAQ I ought to be reading and not asking on here? Jun 19 07:08:39 if we make openmoko-devel-image, it's a WIP Jun 19 07:09:03 hfsplus, it comes with a preloaded OS Jun 19 07:09:25 methril: okay cool. I am planning to purchase it as opposed to an iphone. Jun 19 07:09:31 not that anyone cares, but hey :) Jun 19 07:11:07 but the OS maybe it's not really stable Jun 19 07:11:12 maybe Jun 19 07:11:13 :) Jun 19 07:14:00 I'm used to that,. lol Jun 19 07:17:34 openmoko: 03zecke * ra400c8c0b27f 10/src/ (8 files in 4 dirs): [softmenu] Start using X Properties for the Soft Menu to avoid race conditions Jun 19 07:17:35 openmoko: 03zecke * r8cf4803382bb 10/src/ (8 files in 4 dirs): Merge branch 'softmenu-rework' Jun 19 07:27:41 When the freerunner arrives in July will it be usable as an actual daily use phone? Reasonably reliable? Jun 19 07:28:02 I hope so, or I will feel silly :D Jun 19 07:28:47 * raster prepares the clown shoes for hfsplus Jun 19 07:29:07 woot! Jun 19 07:30:30 I have to change cell providers Jun 19 07:30:33 GSM... bah Jun 19 07:31:10 good old gsm Jun 19 07:31:28 my current provider is CDMA. Jun 19 07:31:31 hooray. phones that work all over the wold Jun 19 07:31:53 where are u from? Jun 19 07:32:16 Canada here. Jun 19 07:33:23 Here in Italy don't sell cdma phone since 10 years ago Jun 19 07:33:58 yeah, well... there's only 1 gsm provider here really Jun 19 07:34:07 there were two, but Rogers bought Fido. Jun 19 07:34:09 or cdma = 3g ? Jun 19 07:35:56 gsm (and gsm related - utms/hsdpa etc.) are by far the most common/ubiquitous phone technologies around the world Jun 19 07:36:12 yep Jun 19 07:36:29 I know, we got got crap CDMA cause we're next to the US and some idiots decided to use what they had Jun 19 07:36:31 sucks. Jun 19 07:36:52 So I shall change to gsm once the freerunner is order-able Jun 19 07:41:21 hopefully that isnt far away Jun 19 07:44:13 !logs Jun 19 07:44:14 Channel logs for #openmoko are archived at: Jun 19 07:44:15 http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/%23openmoko Jun 19 07:44:16 Live-logs are available at Jun 19 07:44:18 http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/livelogs/%23openmoko.livelog Jun 19 07:44:20 See ?? help-logs for usage instructions Jun 19 07:53:31 Hi, can i run gdb on OM2007.02,or any other debugger available? Jun 19 08:15:21 kvk, yes Jun 19 08:15:36 just install it Jun 19 08:42:35 diego_at_work: ok, thanx Jun 19 09:01:40 freesmartphone.org: 03heikki.paajanen * r4cab3a9fd22b 10/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Jun 19 09:01:40 freesmartphone.org: Clean device get info for consistency Jun 19 09:01:40 freesmartphone.org: Make tests run a little faster Jun 19 09:10:27 methril, build completed Jun 19 09:11:24 nice!! i'll give a complete one yesterday, but now i had to restart it again Jun 19 09:35:28 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r17b9cdadf37f 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade Qtopia to get the softmenu rework. Some bugs should be fixed Jun 19 09:35:40 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r776d95cd9a2c 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade Qtopia to get the softmenu rework. Some bugs should be fixed Jun 19 09:48:39 does anyone know howto "wake up" emulated neo1973 on qemu Jun 19 09:49:06 it shut down processor due to being idle Jun 19 10:43:16 hmm it only lacks a camera :^) Jun 19 10:43:46 the SD port should theorically be usable with SDIO to put an (overpriced) cam on, but it's under the battery :-( Jun 19 10:52:24 mmu_man: how about a bluetooth camera? Jun 19 10:52:36 does that exist ? Jun 19 10:52:45 oh BT-enabled regular camera Jun 19 10:52:48 yeah Jun 19 10:52:57 but I mean for EUR330... :) Jun 19 10:53:06 has much better optics too Jun 19 10:53:19 right Jun 19 10:53:19 actually such a device does not exist Jun 19 10:53:35 according to my memory... Jun 19 10:54:01 year ago there were two bt enabled cameras Jun 19 10:54:24 How about a usb-camera Jun 19 10:55:03 as long as bt speed is too slow for transfering images there won't exist more Jun 19 10:55:17 right, for a single shot photo it might work but not video conferencing Jun 19 10:55:40 personally I'd find bt support in cameras useful Jun 19 10:55:45 it's just a shame the SD port isn't outside, as there are SDIO cameras, expensive though Jun 19 10:55:47 but noo... Jun 19 10:55:50 why not a wifi camera Jun 19 10:56:08 yeah with the fr that's of course an option Jun 19 10:56:13 those are crazy expensive :) Jun 19 10:56:43 Just use a normal usb-webcam, or have I missed some of this discussion? Jun 19 10:57:03 wifi is actually more used than bt in cameras Jun 19 10:58:37 mudyc, yeah, it is. Pretty high-end stuff though. Jun 19 10:59:19 I mean, bt would be cheap to tack on to some pocket cam... Jun 19 11:04:16 ebbe hmm usb webcam might be useful btu not really handy on the go Jun 19 11:04:29 besides you need the driver for the exact model and there are so many Jun 19 11:04:51 is there any inclination of how many frerunners will be available for sale? Jun 19 11:06:20 hi Jun 19 11:06:20 dunno Jun 19 11:07:22 Is there information out there on the next phone after the Freerunner (GTA02)? Jun 19 11:07:35 I see bits and pieces in various mailing list posting talking about camera for example Jun 19 11:07:38 but no actual info Jun 19 11:08:06 what is the best way to asure that one can get a freeruner... the mailing list? Jun 19 11:09:10 swc|666: Sign up with on the group-order page on the wiki Jun 19 11:09:30 * ebbe speaks lousy english :) Jun 19 11:09:55 jonwil, gta03 will be a less than revolutionary update, by current info will have a new case, a bit faster edge data, a camera and no gpu Jun 19 11:09:59 ebbe: group-order! thank you ... i did not see tat before Jun 19 11:11:59 #1 wish for openmoko seems to be quad band (or at the very least, tri-band with a way to switch bands) Jun 19 11:12:39 yeah that thing, one hopes the 03 will be quad band, this time really Jun 19 11:13:02 3G would be nice I suppose Jun 19 11:13:04 (I don't need it but) Jun 19 11:13:23 mmu_man, yes, but it's not in the cards at least until 04 Jun 19 11:13:26 Good luck finding a vendor who will sell you a 3G chipset thats open enough for OpenMoko Jun 19 11:13:44 the openmoko site still lists job offers, are they still on ? :) Jun 19 11:13:54 What happened with the GPU on openmoko anyway? Jun 19 11:13:58 though I think taiwan is a bit far for me for now Jun 19 11:14:10 jonwil, turned out it's not that great. Sure, it has some good sides, but limitations as well Jun 19 11:14:34 doesn't it have doc under NDA ? Jun 19 11:14:43 Yes, it has. Jun 19 11:15:25 I think from what I read basically the issue there is that OpenMoko people dont have the time or whatever to write proper drivers and because of NDA no-one else can see the docs to do it Jun 19 11:15:37 so thats why GPU is just a glorified framebuffer right now Jun 19 11:15:50 well, it's not quite that bad Jun 19 11:15:56 yeah that's a shame still Jun 19 11:16:07 but I suppose gamers will get a GP2X instead anyway :D Jun 19 11:16:31 yeah, OpenMoko is not for games, its a phone Jun 19 11:17:19 balrog-kun has been doing eg. support for the gpu mpeg4 decoding, apparently om's libglamo was enough information to get started (correct me if I'm wrong) Jun 19 11:17:19 still, for its price it'd be nice, and the frontier is blurring between devices nowadays Jun 19 11:17:43 is ffmpeg (libavcodec) used yet ? Jun 19 11:17:47 there is an arm port Jun 19 11:18:07 me, I would definatly be interested in an OpenMoko phone if the form factor was different (i.e. phone style form factor with keypad not touchscreen like GTA02) Jun 19 11:18:08 well it probably is if you use gstreamer Jun 19 11:18:30 mjr: libglamo and the wince driver Jun 19 11:18:38 as for me I just don't like the roundy look but that's just taste Jun 19 11:18:42 mmu_man: ffmpeg/libavcodec are part of mplayer Jun 19 11:18:50 the glamo output driver is in mplayer, which does use ffmpeg. ffmpeg isn't that interesting though since you can bog down the gpu bus if you decompress on the cpu Jun 19 11:18:51 no Jun 19 11:18:53 mmu_man: it worked out of the box when i compiled mplayer Jun 19 11:19:00 balrog-kun, 'kay Jun 19 11:19:01 it is used by mplayer (and hosted on the same svn) Jun 19 11:19:16 mmu_man: but the point of using the gpu is to avoid usinf ffmpeg (softwarE) Jun 19 11:19:22 but it's also used by all and every linux player, (xine, vlc) and many others Jun 19 11:19:41 I even wrote an FFDecoder add-ons for BeOS that provides native apps with lavc codecs Jun 19 11:19:58 just saying that you don't need a special port for arm, it "just works" Jun 19 11:20:20 balrog-kun yes of course. though I think there is plan to support an acceleration API from ffmpeg itself Jun 19 11:20:56 (having arm optimzed asm really help speedwise you know:D) Jun 19 11:21:08 http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/vaapi Jun 19 11:21:11 mmu_man: hmm may be a good idea Jun 19 11:21:24 The camera planned for GTA03, is that video or just picture? Jun 19 11:21:30 Or has the camera not been decided yet? Jun 19 11:21:41 on the other hand ffmpeg does only decoding, while accelerators usually accelerate decoding *and* showing on the screen Jun 19 11:21:47 rather than decoding only Jun 19 11:22:14 right Jun 19 11:22:50 on BeOS they would just show up as dormant media nodes accepting encoded viceo Jun 19 11:23:07 and the media player would just check if they support the format before instanciating a decoder node Jun 19 11:23:21 s/BeOS/BeOS and Haiku/ Jun 19 11:24:38 media nodes are something beos/haiku specific, i.e. non-unix? Jun 19 11:25:14 * balrog-kun needs to play with it one day Jun 19 11:31:17 balrog-kun yes, though I think gstreamer has a similar concept Jun 19 11:31:26 windows as well with directshow Jun 19 11:31:32 but BeOS had that 10 years ago :) Jun 19 11:46:23 morning folks Jun 19 11:46:48 morning Jun 19 11:48:52 <`pwgen`> good morning mickey Jun 19 11:48:59 hey pwgen! Jun 19 11:50:09 <`pwgen`> i did a fso-image build yesterday.. please readd mickeyterm or remove mickeyterm from the fso-image.bb Jun 19 11:51:50 hmm, readd or remove? Jun 19 11:51:55 what's wrong? :) Jun 19 11:51:56 <`pwgen`> and zhone will not start the gui without gsm card (:-)) Jun 19 11:52:06 oh it will start, just press X Jun 19 11:52:27 at least it _should_ start Jun 19 11:52:34 (note that you need to reboot first time after installation) Jun 19 11:53:06 as for building fso-image, you need to Jun 19 11:53:10 require moko-autorev.inc Jun 19 11:53:13 require fso-autorev.inc Jun 19 11:53:18 in your local.conf to get the latest versions Jun 19 11:53:29 that might be the reason mickeyterm (and other stuff) is failing Jun 19 11:53:31 <`pwgen`> some days ago i could git the mickeyterm from freesmatphone .. now its not there and the fso image had build-dependency Jun 19 11:53:35 sorry i did not mention that yesterday Jun 19 11:54:20 <`pwgen`> i removed mickeyterm it by myself from fso-image.bb so build didnt fail .. Jun 19 11:55:56 right, i guess this is because it's missing a well-known source rev in conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc Jun 19 11:56:01 will add that Jun 19 11:56:13 and also bump the sourcerevs so that the default points to milestone1 versions Jun 19 11:56:26 since we're going to break it a little bit until milestone2 Jun 19 11:56:28 :) Jun 19 11:57:50 <`pwgen`> how do i get rid of the GSM PIN Jun 19 11:58:01 close the window Jun 19 11:58:04 [X] Jun 19 11:58:11 bottom right Jun 19 11:58:58 it doesn't differenciate between SIM.NotPresent and SIM.NotAllowed yet Jun 19 11:59:13 that's why it thinks you have to add a PIN if +CFUN=1 fails Jun 19 11:59:14 :) Jun 19 12:00:22 <`pwgen`> i think there is an howto to unpin a gsmcard Jun 19 12:00:42 <`pwgen`> alt low level tty Jun 19 12:00:51 <`pwgen`> s/alt/at/ Jun 19 12:00:52 `pwgen` meant: at low level tty Jun 19 12:01:21 ah, you mean you don't want to be asked your PIN ? Jun 19 12:01:25 that's easy Jun 19 12:02:16 let me lookup the command Jun 19 12:02:39 <`pwgen`> YES ,,, how do i get rid off this ( and then ,i hope no one will steal my gsm card ) Jun 19 12:03:10 AT+CLCK,"SC",0 Jun 19 12:03:20 iirc Jun 19 12:04:39 try at+clck="SC",0,"" Jun 19 12:04:57 right, this command needs the PIN Jun 19 12:06:35 has anyone got a problem with svn.berlios.de? (svn: Can't connect to host 'svn.berlios.de': Connection refused) Jun 19 12:07:14 berlios has problems, yea Jun 19 12:07:43 hepaajan yes happens often Jun 19 12:07:55 maybee berlios didnt pay networktraffic again Jun 19 12:07:57 *g* Jun 19 12:08:01 berlios becomes the new sourceforge, in terms of reliability Jun 19 12:09:09 mickeyl: is moko-autorev.inc needed for building fso-image? Jun 19 12:09:22 let me say i didn't try without Jun 19 12:09:25 so yes, I'd recommend it Jun 19 12:09:32 and Jun 19 12:09:38 fso-autorev.inc Jun 19 12:09:49 although we hardly use any om2007.2 packages Jun 19 12:10:34 Well I guess I'll just have to test without moko-autorev since berlios svn is down :) Jun 19 12:10:40 ah Jun 19 12:10:42 just remove two entries Jun 19 12:10:45 openocd Jun 19 12:10:47 openocd-native Jun 19 12:10:49 from moko-autorev Jun 19 12:10:52 that should do t Jun 19 12:11:00 we don't grab anything else from berlios Jun 19 12:11:17 * mickeyl goes to finish multiparty call handling Jun 19 12:11:30 hehe Jun 19 12:11:32 mickeyl: ok. thanks Jun 19 12:11:46 now that i discovered local hold and remote hold are two different things *cough* ;) Jun 19 12:11:46 mickeyl only wrapping some AT commands? Jun 19 12:11:56 mickeyl: I need that fso video :) Jun 19 12:12:00 well, bumping that state machine Jun 19 12:12:06 dcordes: oooh, right Jun 19 12:12:10 i should do that first Jun 19 12:12:16 mickeyl AH your blog entry Jun 19 12:12:18 would be great! Jun 19 12:12:37 woglinde: yep :) Jun 19 12:13:28 hepaajan no it's not Jun 19 12:13:35 they just switched again to https Jun 19 12:13:40 (and http) Jun 19 12:13:51 is you used svn+ssh:// you can do: Jun 19 12:13:59 svn switch --relocate svn+ssh:// https:// Jun 19 12:14:14 for anon svn the url is different IIRC Jun 19 12:14:49 mmu_man: hai finished haiku port yet :D Jun 19 12:15:02 not yet started :D Jun 19 12:15:09 want to help ? Jun 19 12:16:42 no my kernel porting capacities are already filled. Also I won't be much of help for you Jun 19 12:16:44 mmu_man: oh well, then openocd recipes just need some tweaking Jun 19 12:17:15 hmm the SAR figures aren't very clear on http://people.openmoko.org/tony_tu/GTA02/certificate/NCC/TA7O1104_R01_CNS14959_FIC_GTA02_2008.01.02.pdf Jun 19 12:17:33 there is a summary but no single number as usual on brochures Jun 19 12:17:48 which is the one that corresponds to the usual number ? Jun 19 12:17:53 (page33) Jun 19 12:19:28 mmu_man: what's so important about that? Jun 19 12:19:38 health! Jun 19 12:20:10 there are growing suspitions about the effect of microwaves on brain cells... Jun 19 12:20:16 so the lower the healthier Jun 19 12:20:35 it's just precaution Jun 19 12:21:01 mmu_man: german governmental organisation just released the result of a study which states there's no harm to the human body from using cell phones Jun 19 12:21:12 maybe it was vodafone funded ^^ Jun 19 12:21:19 s/maybe/certainly/ Jun 19 12:21:29 it had a very high impact on the media Jun 19 12:21:30 :) Jun 19 12:21:36 there have not been any large enough studies to prove anything Jun 19 12:21:45 yes, french health services did as well... Jun 19 12:21:58 but some other studies show that might be different Jun 19 12:22:08 well they say they can't tell about kids but for adults they say, they'd be quite sure Jun 19 12:22:18 it's just like GMO... big market = big company = big lobbies Jun 19 12:22:23 big FUD Jun 19 12:22:46 actually nothing useful is spit out of that large system of contrasting studies Jun 19 12:22:51 anyway, not a reason to not limit power Jun 19 12:22:58 it also increases battery life :) Jun 19 12:23:30 yea right the way we tick is electric so we shouldn't surround us with too much electromagnetic stuffs Jun 19 12:23:36 easy calculation ^^ Jun 19 12:24:03 plus all energy we absorbe doesn't go to the relay, so... Jun 19 12:25:14 re :) Jun 19 12:25:38 relay? Jun 19 12:26:01 mmu_man: you mean it deoesn't disappear in black holes? Jun 19 12:26:16 Anyway - if you care - you don't want to be looking at the SAR number. Jun 19 12:26:32 haha Jun 19 12:26:34 the hotspot I mean Jun 19 12:26:35 You want to be using a bluetooth headset, and have the phone well away from your head. Jun 19 12:26:42 eh, I do want :) Jun 19 12:26:48 yes that seems the sanest solution Jun 19 12:27:04 Bluetooth has a order of magnitude or two lower SAR than any phone. Jun 19 12:27:05 Just don't keep it in your pocket either .. Jun 19 12:27:21 some studies showed that headset with coords actually don't protect much, as the wires act as antenna Jun 19 12:27:30 Yeah - hence BT. Jun 19 12:27:49 ebbe yeah, family jewels... Jun 19 12:27:55 but then where can one put it ? Jun 19 12:28:00 Exactly Jun 19 12:28:25 maybe we'll end up selling pants with phone pockets at the bottom Jun 19 12:28:32 or on the shoes :) Jun 19 12:28:35 Keep in a trolly a few meters behind you.. Jun 19 12:28:43 hmm oh! Jun 19 12:28:53 or with a balloon of helium Jun 19 12:29:01 4 meters up Jun 19 12:29:06 Good idea :) Jun 19 12:29:32 There are valid alternatives. Jun 19 12:29:36 http://collectingtokens.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/teletubbies_dipsy.jpg Jun 19 12:29:46 An antenna on your hat. Jun 19 12:30:10 It could even have a steerable wifi dish. Jun 19 12:30:12 And a green protection suit Jun 19 12:30:13 :) Jun 19 12:32:24 With an external screen of course. Jun 19 12:36:25 <`pwgen`> cool dbus support for the realtimeclock . Jun 19 12:36:32 :D Jun 19 12:36:49 i've not been lazy in the last couple of months Jun 19 12:37:30 <`pwgen`> i see i see .. Jun 19 12:40:39 <`pwgen`> what is the intention for the usage-daemon ? Jun 19 12:42:25 reference counting for subsystem usage Jun 19 12:42:27 i.e. Jun 19 12:42:30 application A wants gps Jun 19 12:42:32 requests it Jun 19 12:42:39 if its the first, gps is going to get switched on Jun 19 12:42:42 app B... Jun 19 12:42:44 app C... Jun 19 12:42:53 if the last app quits, gps will be switched off Jun 19 12:42:53 <`pwgen`> ahh Jun 19 12:42:55 :D Jun 19 12:43:11 aw, doesnt the driver handle this on the last close() ? Jun 19 12:43:35 oh it's handled on a regular tty line... Jun 19 12:44:04 slightly OT....trying to build a package with bitbake it failed to fetch a tarball as it didnt locate it....anyone know what files i can edit so that i can manually get the tarball and for the build to proceed Jun 19 12:44:27 no idea, Haiku uses Jam :) Jun 19 12:56:04 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: http://pastebin.com/m223a772d ophoned missing python dependency Jun 19 13:01:09 sounds like you did not have fso-autorev included Jun 19 13:01:14 this was a problem in earlier revisions Jun 19 13:02:00 <`pwgen`> that may be true (;-(( but my buildsystem at home is off Jun 19 13:02:50 <`pwgen`> how do I include fso-autorev ( in local.conf ? ) Jun 19 13:04:04 echo "require conf/distro/include/fso-autorev" >>local.conf Jun 19 13:04:31 err Jun 19 13:04:34 echo "require conf/distro/include/fso-autorev.inc" >>local.conf Jun 19 13:11:26 <`pwgen`> i will try it when i am back at home .. Jun 19 13:26:12 mickey|fsoVideo: why dont the deamons do that by their own? why invent a new one? Jun 19 13:39:40 emdete: because the individual programs can't know stuff Jun 19 13:39:56 Or rather - probably shouldn't know stuff. Jun 19 13:41:09 For example, should every application that wants the internet know that it may have to terminate a call? Jun 19 13:42:13 SpeedEvil: yup Jun 19 13:43:05 wibbit: you're going to teach ping how to pop up a dialog and ask the user? Jun 19 13:43:11 (as a degenerate example) Jun 19 13:43:18 Yup Jun 19 13:46:09 :) Jun 19 13:46:10 lol Jun 19 13:49:45 hi all Jun 19 13:56:00 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * rd47801bdcf5d 10/odeviced/src/plugins/backlight/ (backlight.c backlight.h backlight.vala): Added Set and Get Backlight Jun 19 13:56:32 SpeedEvil: thats a different case i think, that's a ruleset not reference counting... Jun 19 13:57:48 so is it bad that I dreamed last night that my current cell carrier got bought out by a gsm provider, which then turned off all the cdma towers, forced us onto gsm, and handed out FreeRunners to all the previous customers of cdma? Jun 19 13:58:13 I think they call that obsession Jun 19 13:58:15 Its only bad because it was a dream and not real Jun 19 13:58:31 jonwil: :-D Jun 19 13:59:02 I would hate to be manning openmoko's helpdesk on the day/week/month that happened Jun 19 13:59:16 Thankfully Australia has no more CDMA, only GSM and UMTS now Jun 19 13:59:36 The US is still as backwards as ever about networks Jun 19 14:00:03 hm Jun 19 14:00:12 didnt was cdma more robust then gms Jun 19 14:00:19 gsm Jun 19 14:00:28 CDMA is aparently better because it has longer range than GSM Jun 19 14:00:43 right, and so is easier to cover rural areas Jun 19 14:00:50 * summatusmentis happens to live in rural areas Jun 19 14:00:58 then why austrial switched too gsm? Jun 19 14:01:16 no, Australia switched from CDMA to UMTS Jun 19 14:01:21 ??? Jun 19 14:01:38 umts is worser in range than gsm Jun 19 14:01:49 most of the US is going either LTE or wi-max for it's 4g network Jun 19 14:02:35 Telstra used to run AMPS at 850MHz way back when. Then they replaced that with CDMA running at 850MHz Jun 19 14:02:45 and now they replaced the CDMA with UMTS at 850MHz Jun 19 14:03:21 Soemthing to do with the 850MHz is why they can get range out of it Jun 19 14:03:37 jonwill ah okay yes that made sense Jun 19 14:05:42 The good thing is that you can use any UMTS850 phone on the network Jun 19 14:05:52 although some phones work better in the bush than others Jun 19 14:06:29 I wonder if Verizon Wireless will ever move to something that lets you use a phone they didnt sell you (and lock down)... :P Jun 19 14:08:00 emdete: (usaged) because there's an interesting chance to start monitoring/statistics et. al. if you let the usaged do this Jun 19 14:08:24 a centralized place of resource management may also tie into cpufreq handling Jun 19 14:08:30 and suspend/resume handling Jun 19 14:09:08 Personally, I see no great benifit in 3G, the big move IMO will be towards networks like Wi-Max where everything is just an IP packet (including voice calls and SMS) Jun 19 14:10:00 jonwill yes this will come Jun 19 14:10:27 but then security is a hot topic Jun 19 14:10:57 ....? the benefit of 3G is it's already deployed and easily upgradable to huge speeds with HSDPA Jun 19 14:11:05 nobody in europe is rushing to do any wimax stuff Jun 19 14:11:08 in europe yes Jun 19 14:11:11 but in USA no Jun 19 14:11:17 in USA very little 3G Jun 19 14:12:05 And in Denmark, no one is really using 3g. Too expensive Jun 19 14:12:11 but then again, USA mobile networks are screwed up in other ways compared to rest of world Jun 19 14:12:12 netherlands relled out wimax converage recently i hear Jun 19 14:12:17 rolled Jun 19 14:12:23 Like that thing where people have to pay for incoming calls Jun 19 14:12:40 here in australia, if I ring someone mobile phone, I am the one that pay, not them Jun 19 14:13:16 thats crazy Jun 19 14:13:41 in USA it's the other way? Jun 19 14:13:53 yes, but in europe it's going to happen Jun 19 14:14:02 sadly Jun 19 14:14:11 are the news talking about Jun 19 14:14:21 whoah Jun 19 14:14:42 I think it should be always that the person who makes the phone calls pays for the phone call, never the person recieving the calls (reverse charge calls being the exception) Jun 19 14:14:45 in the USA both ends usually pay Jun 19 14:15:04 even more stupid Jun 19 14:15:10 if both are mobile phones Jun 19 14:18:03 So I have to ask - I wasn't able to find it on the website (probably just looking in the wrong places) but I know there used to be a page with the current capabilities of the software, and what was in the next stages, etc. Jun 19 14:18:42 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe * r900105c27bd1 10/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Add simple screen lock Jun 19 14:50:29 <|cody|> So I uninstalled the keyboard on my openmoko in hopes of getting a keyboard instead of the 1-9 texting keyboard, but now I can't find where to download the software keyboard. Does anyone know where I can get this? Jun 19 14:52:12 <|cody|> I would like the keyboard that you can get in the "Dock Keyboard Mode" Jun 19 14:55:39 <|cody|> keyboard Jun 19 14:56:12 Shit..... It's still not out? :-\ Jun 19 15:02:58 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * rfcf6f975b18d 10/odeviced/modules/idlenotifier.py: python-ophoned: fix time between IDLE_PRELOCK and LOCK Jun 19 15:04:19 <|cody|> So these are the instructions that I followed to change my keyboard: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Switching_Keyboards but I can't download the matchbox keyboard. When I run the second command there it gives me an error and tells me to run opkg update. Jun 19 15:04:49 |cody|: The old keyboard isn't in opkg repository Jun 19 15:06:19 <|cody|> ebbe: So is it necessary to download ipkg? Jun 19 15:07:39 |cody|: That wont help, but maybe some of these have it: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Repositories Jun 19 15:12:12 mickeyl: got the vid? Jun 19 15:12:22 ~lart youtube Jun 19 15:12:23 * apt_ takes a large goose feather pillow and swings it wildly in youtube's direction, hitting youtube and sending youtube flying into the closet Jun 19 15:12:24 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r30e9106df872 10/packages/openmoko-projects/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [diversity] Diversity team create a branch for splinter. Jun 19 15:12:34 i tried uploading it but it always times out Jun 19 15:12:46 i'm now converting it to something smaller Jun 19 15:12:56 seems 45 MB are too huge for youtube Jun 19 15:14:55 mickeyl: put it in my ~ Jun 19 15:15:43 or somewhere else on ltg Jun 19 15:21:33 mickeyl, :O, you do music videos? Jun 19 15:21:54 mickeyl: the full quality would be nice Jun 19 15:22:08 not really Jun 19 15:22:08 dcordes: nah, you don't want the full quality Jun 19 15:22:21 oks Jun 19 15:25:58 DV is over 100 MB or what Jun 19 15:25:58 i do slight compression, which should be ok Jun 19 15:25:58 uploading... Jun 19 15:26:50 hm when will mickeyl buy a hdtv cam Jun 19 15:28:28 never Jun 19 15:28:39 i hardly used my dv cam in 8 years now Jun 19 15:28:50 my wife will never allow me to buy another one until I'm using this one frequently Jun 19 15:29:57 spill some coffee in it and say it was an accident Jun 19 15:31:18 http://downloads.openmoko.org/framework/milestone1/FrameworkMilestone1.m4v Jun 19 15:32:28 mickeyl: I'm so confused on the current situation with asu, zhone, fso, gtk qtopia Jun 19 15:32:34 is milestone1=zhone? Jun 19 15:32:47 * dcordes is downloading Jun 19 15:32:50 zhone is the phone UI we're using to test our framework Jun 19 15:34:14 i'll try to find time to respond to Kevin's mail on device-owners Jun 19 15:34:20 clearing up the situation Jun 19 15:34:24 hopefully tomorro Jun 19 15:34:25 w Jun 19 15:35:12 lol re Jun 19 15:36:35 mickeyl: marvellous thanks a lot Jun 19 15:36:40 np Jun 19 15:36:45 mickeyl: Like your conversation with the Neo on the video :) Jun 19 15:36:48 quality will be even better for milestone2 ;) Jun 19 15:36:50 ebbe: :) Jun 19 15:37:43 haha the call is great Jun 19 15:38:21 next milestone will feature multiparty handling... _that_'ll be fun to demo ;)) Jun 19 15:38:26 i need some assistants by then Jun 19 15:38:34 ringtone rocks Jun 19 15:38:45 I'll call you from kaiser Jun 19 15:39:17 it's pretty koom Jun 19 15:39:59 When I tried calling on my gta01 there's still a small echo, is this hardware? Because it's been there for a long time now Jun 19 15:41:02 hahaha Jun 19 15:41:35 ebbe: yeah, pretty likely hardware not being shielded enough. we may do some more finetuning with the alsa controls, but i don't really count on it Jun 19 15:41:36 * xzcvczx_ is happy.... his 01 fixed itself Jun 19 15:41:59 mickeyl: It's better on gta02? Jun 19 15:42:07 unfortunately not Jun 19 15:42:45 Oh well, it's not that bad Jun 19 15:43:18 microlith: any update on GTA01 GSM firmware updaters? Jun 19 15:43:22 mick: Jun 19 15:43:43 no idea, tbh Jun 19 15:43:54 i've updated people to moko9-beta1 on LinuxTag Jun 19 15:43:59 well, shoragan did :) Jun 19 15:44:23 i'll ask whether there's any status chance next time Jun 19 15:44:27 change, even Jun 19 15:44:31 Thanks. Jun 19 15:54:59 <`pwgen`> mikeyl: how do you get python-config in your fso-image ? Jun 19 16:10:02 Is possible install openmoko in another cellphone? N95 8gb for example ? Jun 19 16:12:02 J_P: depends on whether or not the linux kernel runs on that device I guess Jun 19 16:12:24 J_P: n95 is symbian? Jun 19 16:12:59 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: how do you get python-config in your fso-image ? installing by hand ? Jun 19 16:13:15 which python-config? Jun 19 16:13:31 the error you have seen is because you need a newer set of daemons Jun 19 16:13:37 it was a bug that has been fixed since Jun 19 16:13:50 include fso-autorev.inc and rebuild Jun 19 16:13:56 <`pwgen`> http://pastebin.com/m768bdff3 Jun 19 16:14:22 yes Jun 19 16:14:37 this is not just a missing python module Jun 19 16:27:01 dcordes: yes. wymbiam, why ? Jun 19 16:27:23 dcordes: are there a lista the cellphones where is possible install openmoko ? Jun 19 16:27:28 J_P: if it had windows mobile you could poke around with haret a bit Jun 19 16:27:45 J_P: did you google a bit on linux port to n95? Jun 19 16:28:50 dcordes: no .. I will do that :-) Jun 19 16:29:11 I'm not aware of such a list Jun 19 16:29:55 ok.. Jun 19 16:31:07 but it wouldn't be too long I guess. you got the two moko phones, the motorola ezx phones..., ..? Jun 19 16:31:51 I tried to make up a usable image for htc blueangel once but the UI didn't quite work with the qvgadisplay Jun 19 17:14:19 so, I just checked planet.om.o and am wondering why the top post is there? Not wanting to silence opinions or anything but seems to just not really be relevant Jun 19 17:15:11 (also, relating to his opinion, seems a bit unjustified given the phone hasn't been finished but *shrug*) Jun 19 17:21:31 doc|work: it's a planet, it just pulls posts from people's blogs. Presumably the people tag the post or something Jun 19 17:25:37 yeah, it's just a blog Jun 19 17:26:38 a diary, with anything that mentions openmoko Jun 19 17:30:12 balrog-kun: yeah, but does it pull it from every random blog or people who are in some way related to openmoko? Jun 19 17:30:27 They have a list of the blogs they pull from on the left Jun 19 17:30:40 doc|work: I agree with you; that guy's blog didn't seem like it should be there Jun 19 17:30:58 wurp2: bingo :/ Jun 19 17:31:04 he's an OE hacker Jun 19 17:31:08 If he had specific complaints, that's good stuff to hear Jun 19 17:31:38 but he just seemed to be saying: it sucks, there are multiple branches, it's not finished Jun 19 17:31:39 he didn't really though, he was complaining about ... well, I'm not sure Jun 19 17:31:51 none of which seem like constructive complaints Jun 19 17:32:25 that's not a bug report, it doesn't have to be constructive imho Jun 19 17:32:28 just a flow of thought Jun 19 17:32:39 it's more like he was put out by the change from gtk, even though gtk will still be there... Jun 19 17:32:41 a totally personal blog Jun 19 17:32:44 sure Jun 19 17:38:15 he was one of the initial people to get a neo though Jun 19 17:38:52 if you look at planet.gnome.org it's also not a source of information about gnome (at least not an official one) Jun 19 17:39:38 it's more like for staying up to date with what interesting is up in the lives of the other developers Jun 19 17:39:59 although this one isn't very interesting :) Jun 19 17:40:07 heh Jun 19 17:40:39 well, gentoo split that, planet.gentoo.org was gentoo related stuff, planet.gentoo.org/universe was gentoo + developer random stuff Jun 19 17:41:26 that seems a good idea Jun 19 17:41:54 yep Jun 19 17:42:01 Except that hrw isn't really an OM dev Jun 19 17:42:33 so what about splitting it into planet.om.o and planet.om.o/randomotherpeople or somesuch? Jun 19 17:54:37 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * r335befe2cbf4 10/odeviced/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): catch some unhandled exceptions Jun 19 17:55:37 is planet.om.org really going to change because someone wrote a post that some other people didn't like? Jun 19 17:57:51 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * r6fe40f507df2 10/odeviced/src/plugins/backlight/backlight.plugin: fix typo in .plugin Jun 19 17:59:10 d3vice: it's not about not liking it (I even said that), it's just that his posts don't really seem relevant. I read planet.om.o to get dev updates Jun 19 18:01:05 me too, all i'm saying is that talking and thinking about subjects (good or bad) is some of the ways to make projects go forward Jun 19 18:01:37 hello Jun 19 18:01:38 sure, but he hasn't really said anyway what he's not happy about. Jun 19 18:01:46 hello aspire Jun 19 18:02:19 doc|work I dont want to start bombing you with questions but have some to ask Jun 19 18:02:41 would like to know what language the linux phone its OS is develoepd in Jun 19 18:03:08 Mostly C Jun 19 18:03:12 aspire: I'm not the best person to ask this but I'll try and someoen else can correct me if I'm wrong Jun 19 18:03:26 aspire: linux = C, qtopia = c++ Jun 19 18:03:33 but you can use pretty much anything Jun 19 18:03:38 Other stuff = python Jun 19 18:04:01 OK c is fine, so is the linux OS ready? Jun 19 18:04:27 * XorA reads back and is astonished by the whining Jun 19 18:04:36 I hope so, given they're going to start selling phones soon :) Jun 19 18:04:38 meaning is it functional? Jun 19 18:04:39 XorA: whining? Jun 19 18:04:55 doc|home: about hrw's blog, its his blog FFS, he can post what he likes Jun 19 18:05:08 XorA: except it's not his blog, it's planet.om.o .... Jun 19 18:05:31 doc|work: planet just republishes anything its told to Jun 19 18:05:37 doc|work: hrw doesnt get much choice Jun 19 18:05:49 why do harald welte's posts go to planet.om ? Jun 19 18:05:54 XorA: right, and I was wondering why he was even added to it.... I've explained this... Jun 19 18:06:03 doc|work if I wanted to make an application that would run on a linux phone, is that possible? Jun 19 18:06:29 sure Jun 19 18:06:30 aspire: yes, it's basically a computer with a gsm connection Jun 19 18:06:35 which post is doing the fud ? Jun 19 18:06:52 CVirus: the top one, and not so much fud, just not really clear why it's there Jun 19 18:07:27 I mean, I get how it's there, but not why his posts seem relevant Jun 19 18:07:38 in that case would you advice me to use C++? Jun 19 18:07:52 By Marcin "hrw" Juszkiewicz Jun 19 18:07:54 that is ? Jun 19 18:08:03 CVirus: yep Jun 19 18:08:07 wut Jun 19 18:08:08 someone said he's OE Jun 19 18:08:10 that is harald welte ? Jun 19 18:08:15 ??? Jun 19 18:08:30 CVirus: nope Jun 19 18:08:41 ok Jun 19 18:08:54 What kind of libs would I need to get my mobile application to interact with a websphere server? Jun 19 18:09:12 or any otehr kind of server? Jun 19 18:09:15 apsire a http lib? Jun 19 18:10:05 Is it possible to install applications on the linux phone? Jun 19 18:10:32 yes Jun 19 18:10:40 aspire, its a computer with gsm Jun 19 18:10:49 does that require any form of premissions? Jun 19 18:10:59 aspire: might be an idea to read the wiki :) Jun 19 18:11:16 do you mean the one of OPEN MOKO? Jun 19 18:11:23 yep Jun 19 18:11:28 OK Jun 19 18:12:26 is there any one here who has the NEO phone and is able to make phone calls with it? Jun 19 18:12:47 *g* Jun 19 18:12:57 woglinde? Jun 19 18:12:59 me Jun 19 18:13:03 me too Jun 19 18:13:04 ;D Jun 19 18:13:07 put a prepaid sim in it, works fine Jun 19 18:13:31 is it buggy? does it crash? Jun 19 18:13:42 never crashed on me Jun 19 18:13:47 but i did not use it much yet Jun 19 18:13:53 OK, thanks that is all for now Jun 19 18:14:04 regarding on of our lmce devs it's a bit buggy with sms Jun 19 18:14:46 does anybody run j2me apps on the openmoko? Jun 19 18:14:50 aspire, if you know qemu, you can build a qemu image of openmoko and see for your self Jun 19 18:15:15 lmce guys joined OM? GREAT! Jun 19 18:15:29 aspire: in 10 minutes Jun 19 18:15:39 d3viceb have use qemu, but it provides limited capability and does not allow any of the GSM features Jun 19 18:15:54 d3vice, we won a neo on the LinuxTag Jun 19 18:15:55 sure, but you can see the rest Jun 19 18:16:04 d3vice, just finishing http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Java_Mobile_Orbiter Jun 19 18:16:07 hari, thats awesome! congrats Jun 19 18:16:12 yeah!!!! Jun 19 18:16:25 d3vice, and wondering if i should try to run it in a java vm or do a native port Jun 19 18:16:34 d3vice: imce ? Jun 19 18:16:47 linux media center edition Jun 19 18:16:51 d3vice, I'm not the lucky winner but I can have the phone for the next months to do the orbiter port Jun 19 18:16:51 does open moko have any initiatives to start a voip project? Jun 19 18:17:26 d3vice, and as I found out that #openmoko is also on freenode I've decided to lurk around a bit.. Jun 19 18:17:33 hari, good news! Jun 19 18:17:47 I think ASU looks ugly Jun 19 18:17:50 but, will freerunner run java apps? Jun 19 18:17:58 d3vice: yup Jun 19 18:18:07 great! Jun 19 18:18:21 for a first throw with the JavaMO i'd need j2me MIDP2.0 with CLDC1.1 and JSR082 Jun 19 18:18:42 somehow I think I will get troubles with at least JSR082 Jun 19 18:18:58 wondered if the Avetana jsr082 stack would compile for the moko Jun 19 18:19:19 aspire: i think a sip client is in the works Jun 19 18:19:47 CVirus: i think uglyness can be solved with themes Jun 19 18:20:04 maybe I should just use c++, sdl and libbluetooth and rewrite the code for the moko Jun 19 18:20:24 hari, a while back i used to follow lmce's forum, great stuff! Jun 19 18:20:34 d3vice, we are making progress every day :-) Jun 19 18:20:43 d3vice: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Java Jun 19 18:20:47 d3vice, and we had many jaws hitting the floor on the linux tag booth Jun 19 18:20:58 d3vice, people are not used to media, lightning and whatever follow them through the rooms Jun 19 18:21:19 d3vice, and stumbling through dvd covers on the mobile phone :=) Jun 19 18:21:23 hari: you guys are responsible for me buying a tv card, nvidia card and the works! :) Jun 19 18:21:35 yeah, thats what i'm talking about!!! :) Jun 19 18:21:39 are there any complications in the development of a mobile app for accessing the internet for example access levels and certain protocols that have to be accomplished, is there any doc which I can look at that demonstrates how this would work Jun 19 18:21:41 ? Jun 19 18:22:00 aspire, ? Jun 19 18:22:22 aspire, which layer are we talking about? Jun 19 18:22:42 not sure myslef yet, trying to find out Jun 19 18:22:46 aspire: it's a computer, it'll work the same way as a desktop would Jun 19 18:23:49 yes but my computer uses DSL, a simple modem that is prepaid, a mobile phone uses a different protocol to gain access to the internet Jun 19 18:24:01 different access levels Jun 19 18:24:06 aspire: that is would be handled by the system Jun 19 18:24:24 that protocol is "transparent" to you and your app Jun 19 18:24:55 like a normal linux computer with a modem Jun 19 18:24:58 so once the OS is configured then the application is free to connect to the internet and do whatever is required Jun 19 18:25:00 although it's not there anymore, think that NetworkManager solves those questions... Jun 19 18:25:10 aspire: yep Jun 19 18:25:17 OK Jun 19 18:25:48 any specific libs I would have to use, httplib was already mentioned, Jun 19 18:25:51 which brings me too, why remove NetworkManager? Jun 19 18:26:32 aspire: e17 libs maybe, if your apps has a gui, i'm just guessing here Jun 19 18:27:08 or even gtk libs Jun 19 18:27:55 are those standard and available from openmoko.org Jun 19 18:28:46 i think so but i can be mistaken Jun 19 18:29:04 another thing why develop in C or C++ if JAVA is almost the only type of application functional on most hand-held devices Jun 19 18:29:24 aspire: you're thinking traditional handheld devices Jun 19 18:29:25 what do you think java is written in? Jun 19 18:29:31 think big, future! Jun 19 18:29:40 fuck java Jun 19 18:29:45 CVirus: ack! Jun 19 18:29:51 haha Jun 19 18:30:17 CVirus I understand what you are getting at but it is not nice of you to cut JAVA out Jun 19 18:30:23 THanks any way Jun 19 18:30:32 java is in many ways C++,--,--. Jun 19 18:30:52 why not use C# Jun 19 18:31:03 aspire: the most important thing is that you're free to use your favorite language Jun 19 18:31:08 evolution and revolution Jun 19 18:31:13 C# ? Jun 19 18:31:26 too many bad universities brainwashing kids with JAVA Jun 19 18:31:27 that is # for sharp Jun 19 18:31:34 zedstar_: mine is one of them Jun 19 18:31:43 zedstar I could agree with you Jun 19 18:31:44 zedstar_: +1 (dave jones in here? ;) Jun 19 18:31:59 you need a vm for this stuff -> overhead Jun 19 18:32:01 zedstar: right on. Jun 19 18:32:12 c and c++ are fine for me :) Jun 19 18:32:23 aspire: I know what that is ... but what's the point of using C# .. there are better languages around Jun 19 18:32:33 java is better as a coffee than a language :-D Jun 19 18:32:40 lol Jun 19 18:32:56 Java is on OM Jun 19 18:33:03 Jalimo is the project name, I think Jun 19 18:33:15 Java is a fine language for many purposes Jun 19 18:33:20 look this is the developer section of OPEN MOKO Jun 19 18:33:21 http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/wiki/DevelopmentGuides Jun 19 18:33:30 * cyrilRomain heards Java is free, but prefers being free from Java Jun 19 18:34:50 * zash 's gf wants him to learn java. :( Jun 19 18:35:02 could be worse Jun 19 18:35:08 she could want you to wash the dishes Jun 19 18:35:17 If you want to write one app to run in browser, on Mac, Linux, Windows, Java is great Jun 19 18:35:27 Java is far better than C or C++ for biz type apps Jun 19 18:35:38 wurp2: thats what php is for Jun 19 18:35:44 lol Jun 19 18:35:47 perl Jun 19 18:35:48 php is Jun 19 18:35:55 zash: You run php for a windows app? Jun 19 18:36:01 crap Jun 19 18:36:18 wurp2: if its going to run i a browser .. Jun 19 18:36:19 And php is not dynamic client-side... it's a totally different target Jun 19 18:36:38 Yeah, then I said on Mac, on Linux - those were meant to be distinct Jun 19 18:36:40 wurp2, both c++ and java have their place Jun 19 18:36:41 wurp2: anyways, $RANDOM_SERVERSIDE_LANGUAGE is the shit Jun 19 18:36:46 except ASP Jun 19 18:36:52 One app can run in the browser, or as an app on Linux, app on Windows, etc. Jun 19 18:36:59 hari: Sure Jun 19 18:37:17 C is great for device drivers, and places where profiling shows performance is critical Jun 19 18:37:42 Or for code that's gonna be stable for years, so you can thoroughly debug it Jun 19 18:37:43 PHP is great for ugly serverside hacks Jun 19 18:37:55 * cyrilRomain gives zash an erlang book to change his mind Jun 19 18:38:02 zash: True, but I prefer turbogears for that Jun 19 18:38:19 erlang sounds like it could be a big deal in the future Jun 19 18:38:28 as parallel processing becomes more & more widely used Jun 19 18:38:41 wurp2 in 20 years maybee Jun 19 18:38:50 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * r2d74f1e28dcd 10/odeviced/src/daemon/ (plugin.vala service.vala): Create a new PluginError error domain and use it in the errordomain and use it Jun 19 18:38:55 I'm already running erlang stuff Jun 19 18:39:05 wurp2 it is a big deal, however not much used since ericson left it go Jun 19 18:39:09 ejabberd ftw! Jun 19 18:39:41 C isnt too painful if u abstract it a bit with higher level libraries like glib and apr....raw C can be hard work Jun 19 18:39:58 Ruby is a nice language Jun 19 18:40:14 Python > * Jun 19 18:40:22 actually, Qt is all you need Jun 19 18:40:27 ljp lol Jun 19 18:40:34 wxruby! Jun 19 18:40:59 * zedstar_ still think everyone should use Scheme though Jun 19 18:41:21 cobalt! cobalt! Jun 19 18:41:27 ASSEMBLER Jun 19 18:41:36 for everything Jun 19 18:42:32 heh, scheme Jun 19 18:42:42 my 1st year comp sci lecturer called, he wants his language back Jun 19 18:43:15 lol, lisp? Jun 19 18:43:50 any one still use fortrand? Jun 19 18:44:00 fortrant Jun 19 18:44:29 no, really... "Qt Everywhere" Jun 19 18:44:36 and we mean it Jun 19 18:44:43 bend over then ;) Jun 19 18:44:54 we are coming out with a Qt kernel in afew months Jun 19 18:45:04 hahah Jun 19 18:45:16 we ported linux kernel to Qt Jun 19 18:45:25 only took a week Jun 19 18:46:01 * zash think webapps should be written in assembler and include their own kernel and webbserver Jun 19 18:47:08 LOL Jun 19 18:47:41 this is how to do web programming and hurt your brain in the process http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation#Continuations_in_Web_development Jun 19 18:48:47 zedstar_: what Jun 19 18:49:33 woglinde: Well, 8 core machines are fairly common on the desktop now. I think in *5* years you'll see ~20 cores commonly on machines, and somewhere around that number using a language that actually has support for parallelism becomes important, assuming you actually care about using the processing power available Jun 19 18:49:51 wurp2 right but the programmer arent there Jun 19 18:50:00 zash it is "goto" on steroids Jun 19 18:50:10 so it will need 20 years unitl parallel programming is the standard Jun 19 18:50:16 zedstar_: :( Jun 19 18:50:51 * zash finds parallel programming to be easier in bash Jun 19 18:51:10 how about duo core for a mobile device? Jun 19 18:51:38 duo battery more like ! Jun 19 18:51:38 aspire? Jun 19 18:51:39 aspire: my laptop is mobile-ish Jun 19 18:52:22 yes it has a mobile chip Jun 19 18:52:34 but that is not the same thing in the end of the day Jun 19 18:52:55 * ljp wants a quadcore phone Jun 19 18:53:07 ljp: 4 phones + ducttape Jun 19 18:53:08 FreeRunner has quad core Jun 19 18:53:16 7 core! Jun 19 18:53:21 look where can I find documentation to develop an application for a linux phone Jun 19 18:53:31 Teh intarnets! Jun 19 18:53:48 any specific reference? Jun 19 18:53:50 aspire: wiki.openmoko.org Jun 19 18:54:03 aspire: it's just a computer, stop thinking of it as a phone Jun 19 18:54:06 :) Jun 19 18:54:20 dont make us do a goatse link Jun 19 18:54:30 no one ever makes you do that :o Jun 19 18:54:52 he is the original and enjoys it :-) Jun 19 18:55:10 hah Jun 19 18:56:59 OKOK Jun 19 18:57:49 aspire: What's your preferred language? Jun 19 18:58:45 woglinde: I'll bet once the cores are there, someone will pull an ID and write some app that uses them & blows people away (using erlang or another language with good parallel proc support), then everyone rushes to copy them Jun 19 18:59:22 wurp2: like watch movies at full res? ;) Jun 19 18:59:49 doc|work: heh Jun 19 19:24:53 I was just wondering if there was some way I can sync my KDE contacts with my Neo 1973 Jun 19 19:26:10 * SpeedEvil cues the death star scene, with the voiceover 'Use the source luke!' Jun 19 19:26:18 (not AFAIK yet) Jun 19 19:26:21 haha Jun 19 19:26:50 RayDar: any idea what format they are in Jun 19 19:29:11 zash: No idea what format they are in. But since there are so many syncing systems on Linux, (OpenSync, etc) -- and since the built-in system for adding/deleting/editing contacts is nearly unusable, I figured they might be relying on syncing with a desktop and therefore some sync system would merely be built in. Jun 19 19:29:42 But alas, perhaps I am wrong. Jun 19 19:30:30 RayDar: in the gtk-based stuff they use the same format as evolution does Jun 19 19:30:32 does OM support syncml or such= Jun 19 19:30:34 ? Jun 19 19:31:01 afaik no Jun 19 19:31:27 Wow, that really should be part of the system. Jun 19 19:31:41 It's not basically functional yet. Jun 19 19:31:48 It's _way_ off user-readiness. Jun 19 19:31:49 :( Jun 19 19:31:52 but opensync is available for OM, and opensync has a syncml plugin Jun 19 19:32:31 nice, so did anynone ever try to sync freerunner with a desktop? Jun 19 19:32:37 dunno how good working it is though Jun 19 19:32:42 rsync Jun 19 19:32:49 :) Jun 19 19:33:18 rsync is the shit Jun 19 19:33:52 does OM have a frontend to it? Jun 19 19:33:57 Heh, rsync won't convert my Palm or KDE contacts to GTK. Jun 19 19:36:05 RayDar: latest rsync does Jun 19 19:36:14 arg, delay on mailing list getting worse Jun 19 19:36:41 no message since 10h Jun 19 19:36:58 hi is there a way to package applications for the linux phone? Jun 19 19:37:06 is it my mail server ? ^^ Jun 19 19:37:19 aspire: you gotta be kidding me Jun 19 19:37:32 Qwell: Really? I might have to look into this. Jun 19 19:37:38 RayDar: no.. Jun 19 19:37:39 d3vice quite serious actually Jun 19 19:38:26 * RayDar hears "Never gonna give you up" in the background. Jun 19 19:38:41 * doc|work lets RayDar down Jun 19 19:38:52 d3vice does an application not need to be installed on your mobile?µ Jun 19 19:39:11 aspire: there is, and it's most likely documented on the wiki Jun 19 19:39:35 thanks doc|work, hope to find it Jun 19 19:39:37 aspire: look at the wiki, quite a lot of link for devloppers : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page ;) Jun 19 19:40:05 aspire: You need to install a "toolchain". Jun 19 19:40:49 aspire: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain and http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenEmbedded should help you package your application Jun 19 19:41:45 I found in a tutorial that it must be compiled in teh image that is used to flash your phone Jun 19 19:43:21 http://www.openmoko.com/uploaded_images/41.png Jun 19 19:44:09 aspire: You can transfer files independently of the image. Jun 19 19:44:56 or make an ipkg package (quite like .deb) Jun 19 19:45:23 see "Packaging your application" in the Toolchain wiki page Jun 19 19:47:10 what files might the contacts be in? Jun 19 19:49:02 oh: /home/root/.evolution/addressbook/local/system/addressbook.db Jun 19 19:50:32 bart__thanks that is exactly what I am looking for Jun 19 19:51:26 what does this stand for? Jun 19 19:51:27 What is the best way to handle caching of application information? Jun 19 19:51:56 what exactly does this mean, or what does this process involve? Jun 19 19:54:54 bart__ does teh application manager actually work on the linux phone? Jun 19 20:05:56 hum, i think opkg is functionnal Jun 19 20:14:33 bart__ it is because you cant upgrade your system and make a phone call at the same time Jun 19 20:17:47 Can I import .vcf files into my Neo1973? Jun 19 20:20:38 Hi all Jun 19 20:20:43 Is there anybody from Austria? Jun 19 20:21:21 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r1b7f2f3865ef 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade Qtopia to get SMS account fixes Jun 19 20:21:21 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r9f1787ac69d8 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade Qtopia to get the softmenu rework. Some bugs should be fixed Jun 19 20:21:22 openmoko: 03graeme 07org.openmoko.dev * ra1effad4c7be 10/conf/distro/include/moko-autorev.inc: [autorev] berlios is down more than its up so dont autorev openocd Jun 19 20:23:58 openmoko-today looks really good in default gtk+ theme :-) Jun 19 20:31:04 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * r2271353ae784 10/odeviced/src/daemon/helpers.vala: read_integer handles exceptions in a more sane manner Jun 19 20:31:04 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * rcff51638b92b 10/odeviced/src/daemon/service.vala: simple change to order of the catch blocks Jun 19 20:36:40 what a fricking match Jun 19 20:37:19 yes Jun 19 20:37:22 we win Jun 19 20:38:33 hi Jun 19 20:38:52 doc|work: I saw that you had interesting opinion about my blog post Jun 19 20:39:34 hrw: not so much about the post, just wondering why it appeared on planet.openmoko.org as I said, and also as the person who told you should have said. Jun 19 20:40:28 doc|work: it appeared there because my posts tagged 'openmoko' lands there Jun 19 20:40:58 which I didn't know when I asked... Jun 19 20:40:59 as I said Jun 19 20:42:01 and like I wrote -- I do not see usable linux phone on a market Jun 19 20:42:04 hrw: as an aside, regarding your post, it's not really all that clear why you're unhappy with om Jun 19 20:42:38 hrw: sure, but that's not what I was commenting on, and was one of the first things I said Jun 19 20:42:42 doc|work: om has 1.5 year since first information about it was released. nothing usable as phone released Jun 19 20:43:07 doc|work: feel free to add comment on blog - your point of view is interesting Jun 19 20:43:29 ~curse git fetcher Jun 19 20:43:29 May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, git fetcher ! Jun 19 20:43:42 hrw: sure, but it's about to be released... Jun 19 20:43:49 doc|work: when I change phone I need something that is better then replaced one Jun 19 20:44:00 doc|work: phones are going to be released - hardware Jun 19 20:44:01 hrw: it kind of seems, to me anyway, that you're dismissing it before you've even used it Jun 19 20:44:18 * XorA|gone figures hrw has seen one or two GTA02 around Jun 19 20:44:33 he does know all the .eu openmoko developers closely Jun 19 20:44:46 that's great and all, but isn't explained in any way on the post Jun 19 20:45:08 Is there an OpenMoko facebook group? Jun 19 20:45:10 * doc|work thinks XorA|gone is blowing this way out of proportion Jun 19 20:45:14 MrSkittle: yep Jun 19 20:45:29 * MrSkittle blows doc|work way out of proportion Jun 19 20:45:35 rawr Jun 19 20:45:36 doc|work: it wasnt me that told hrw BTW, just in case you think Im tell tailing Jun 19 20:45:43 doc|work: I used gta02v2, v3, v4 Jun 19 20:45:48 doc|work: I don't think I've ever seen doc|home say a thing Jun 19 20:46:01 MrSkittle: please don't troll :) Jun 19 20:46:27 I'm not trolling! Jun 19 20:46:36 hrw: with the software that will be what we can install when the phones arrive? Jun 19 20:46:46 doc|work: I used gta02 with om2007.2 software and also with current e17/qtopia/x11 and also saw 'openmoko underground' images on real hardware Jun 19 20:47:02 hrw: so you're judging it on beta software Jun 19 20:47:03 doc|work: I used qtopia on gta01, om2007.1 and om2007.2 Jun 19 20:47:11 hrw: how does e17 run on it? Jun 19 20:48:00 MrSkittle: components are used Jun 19 20:48:02 e17 runs better on gta01 than gta02 :-( Jun 19 20:48:20 doc|work: I judge on *current* state of software Jun 19 20:48:29 hrw: so then yes, on beta software Jun 19 20:48:35 * MrSkittle go bai Jun 19 20:48:46 on a system that will be constantly upgrade and improved Jun 19 20:49:05 every one should calm down a little bit Jun 19 20:49:14 doc|work: my closed k750i is contantly upgrade and improve by random hackers Jun 19 20:49:16 doc whats your problem? Jun 19 20:49:22 I'm perfectly calm, but if someone comes in here and jumps on me then I'm going to respond Jun 19 20:49:32 it took 2 years to make phone calls in a sane way Jun 19 20:49:35 hrw, i have a k800i, where do you get that stuff? Jun 19 20:49:41 huh? Jun 19 20:49:48 doc|work: that's hard to predict, it makes sense to judge by what's available imho Jun 19 20:50:04 d3vice: search SE forums for 'elf' keyword and 'vkp patches' Jun 19 20:50:14 hrw: thankx! Jun 19 20:50:18 ok, so I say things are likely to get better and everyone jumps on me? if that's the case then why any of you here? Jun 19 20:50:33 * doc|work boggles Jun 19 20:50:43 doc you jumps on your self Jun 19 20:50:44 hrw, the neo works fine for me Jun 19 20:50:47 doc|work: the things are going better since year ago Jun 19 20:50:47 woglinde: what? Jun 19 20:50:52 doc|work: well, i trust it'll improve but i'm not buying a new phone at the moment :p Jun 19 20:51:01 hari: then cool for you. Jun 19 20:51:05 i make alsmot no phonecalls these days Jun 19 20:51:20 * XorA|gone loves his HSDPA Jun 19 20:51:22 hari: I have two gta01 here and they gather dust rather then being used Jun 19 20:51:27 XorA|gone: kaiser? Jun 19 20:51:30 hrw, for 1,5y I think they've done a pretty good job Jun 19 20:51:30 yeah Jun 19 20:51:48 hari yes they did Jun 19 20:51:49 hrw, compare that to your SE that has to be hacked after years in production to be usable :) Jun 19 20:51:51 woglinde: in case you didn't notice hrw joined the channel and immediately started giving me hassle for a comment that someone else passed to him which wasn't even related to the content of his post. Now you're all ganging up on me for it? Jun 19 20:52:11 *sigh* Jun 19 20:52:14 doc|work: welcome to the sharktank that is #openmoko Jun 19 20:52:16 hari: yes, n-th framework Jun 19 20:52:16 doc|work, no :-) Jun 19 20:52:22 I said calm down Jun 19 20:52:37 I don't know why you think I'm not calm :) Jun 19 20:52:48 hrw saw the openmoko from the beginning Jun 19 20:52:55 hari: my 750i was usable out-of-box. those hacks adds some nice tricks Jun 19 20:53:05 hrw, usable? ha, i have two of them Jun 19 20:53:21 hrw, the firmware releases of the first year were crap.. delays over 15 seconds and such.. Jun 19 20:53:31 hrw, network loss Jun 19 20:53:35 hrw: saw the moko when it was just some leaked logs of a kernel oops :-) Jun 19 20:53:36 woglinde: for pre-beginning - rememeber oedem 2006 when mickeyl told more then wanted? Jun 19 20:53:36 hrw, and don't get me started on the joystick Jun 19 20:53:47 hes old skewl Jun 19 20:53:49 hari: works for me Jun 19 20:53:56 hrw *g* Jun 19 20:54:07 hrw, the only cool thing about the 750i is the HID capability over bluetooth Jun 19 20:54:08 hrw I didnt want to pester mickeyl Jun 19 20:54:20 XorA|gone: qt2410 times? Jun 19 20:54:26 hrw, but isn't that cool, everybody can decide which mobile to use :-p Jun 19 20:54:48 hari: and thats the point - everyone can choose Jun 19 20:55:04 I know people who use gta02 as each day phone Jun 19 20:55:19 I also know people who use nokia 5110/3210 phones still Jun 19 20:55:34 * hari looks for his 6150i Jun 19 20:55:53 hari: 6150 has 'i' version? Jun 19 20:56:08 i stay corrected Jun 19 20:56:26 had too many nokias with an 'i'.. Jun 19 20:56:29 ;) Jun 19 20:57:54 I still get my fold out qwerty nokia, that ruled Jun 19 20:57:57 I had ericsson a2618s, alcatel a501, nokia 6310i, se k750i, gta01bv3, gta01bv4, few palmos powered pdas (lores, hires), all zaurus models, two nokia tablets etc Jun 19 20:58:12 XorA|gone: 6820 iirc? Jun 19 20:58:22 6822 I had, more advanced Jun 19 20:58:44 I love my N800, the best phone for my needs is the E60 Jun 19 20:58:47 what's the "i" for in 6310i? Jun 19 20:58:59 its the internet :-) Jun 19 20:59:05 * balrog-kun uses a 6310i for phonecalls Jun 19 20:59:08 it's in the phone :=) Jun 19 20:59:14 oh i didn't even notice :p Jun 19 20:59:15 balrog-kun: quadband, blue screen and few other difs Jun 19 20:59:42 balrog-kun: ah.. 6310 lack bluetooth iirc Jun 19 20:59:45 * XorA|gone wishes he had a whole internet in a phone Jun 19 21:00:06 get a UMTS flatrate.. Jun 19 21:00:08 yeah .. with all it's pr0n Jun 19 21:00:09 :-p Jun 19 21:00:12 its* Jun 19 21:00:21 hari: got one, but a whole internet just wont fit Jun 19 21:00:36 * SpeedEvil ponders. Jun 19 21:01:25 balrog-kun: if you want to use BT in 6310i check does it has 5.22 or higer firmware Jun 19 21:01:34 * hrw -> sleep Jun 19 21:01:53 hrw: i only use it for phonecalls, nothing else :) Jun 19 21:01:56 see you Jun 19 21:02:09 * balrog-kun downloads the internet and sells it to XorA|gone on a 3"1/2 diskette Jun 19 21:03:14 You can probably get about a terabyte of flash into a phone if you stacked bare flash chips. Jun 19 21:03:31 Probably a bit more. Jun 19 21:04:45 someone try it i want to see if it's true http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fet0SCt7uGg&eurl=http://www.za3tar.net/2007/09/29/typing-google-into-google/ Jun 19 21:05:58 zedstar: I didnt manage to break it Jun 19 21:06:03 I have met many many IT people like that though Jun 19 21:06:09 phew Jun 19 21:19:13 openmoko: 03graeme 07org.openmoko.dev * r820bd00b9ad5 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-pim.bb: [openmoko-pim] appmanager2 no longer compiles with opkg Jun 19 21:20:35 is the buglog@... list deprecated? Jun 19 21:30:31 Hey, anything new on the accelerated mplayer front? Jun 19 21:30:44 (I dunno the answer to your Q) Jun 19 21:37:48 wurp2: there won't be anything new from my side for the moment Jun 19 21:38:37 the main goal of getting the sources public has been reached, and the side goal of making it usable also Jun 19 21:57:19 off-topic but still cool Jun 19 21:57:23 http://www.osnews.com/story/19893 Jun 19 22:11:42 balrog-kun: cool, thanks! Jun 19 22:12:28 doc|work: Very nice! Jun 19 22:12:57 It kind of surprises me... usually MS has the resources to get their way, and based on their dirty dealings on this one, they seemed pretty commited to it Jun 19 22:13:40 haz question Jun 19 22:13:47 where did openmoko get its name? Jun 19 22:13:57 what is a moko? Jun 19 22:14:25 tunys: it's "mobile communications" Jun 19 22:14:43 it's from the spanish for booger Jun 19 22:14:48 balrog-kun, what language? Jun 19 22:14:53 wurp2, yeah i know :D Jun 19 22:14:56 tunys: English Jun 19 22:15:03 MObile COmmunications Jun 19 22:15:08 oic Jun 19 22:15:12 that too :) and it similar to moto as in Hello MOTO Jun 19 22:15:18 's Jun 19 22:15:26 and it just made more since to use a K there? Jun 19 22:16:54 I have no idea why they used a K Jun 19 22:17:07 I actually didn't know why they chose moko at all until balrog-kun just said :-) Jun 19 22:17:18 probably to make it easer to remember Jun 19 22:17:52 maybe there is a secret drive to use KDE Jun 19 22:18:03 and all KDE apps replace C with K Jun 19 22:19:07 and Gnome-apps precede everything with G Jun 19 22:19:20 i wonder if they will consider rebranding for spanish markets Jun 19 22:19:45 I dunno Jun 19 22:19:56 Sometimes bad advertisement can be better than mediocre Jun 19 22:20:04 Ew! Look at this phone name! Jun 19 22:20:09 Hey, but look at this phone... Jun 19 22:20:50 hehe, may be Jun 19 22:20:53 makes it easier to remember Jun 19 22:21:00 Like those idiotic car salesmen whose antics get put on youtube and spread far & wide Jun 19 22:21:28 Now we just need the sw so someone will actually be inclined to buy the phone :-) Jun 19 22:21:43 hrmm, do moko people not know anyone with a zero in their phone number? Jun 19 22:21:43 Has anyone tried milestone 1? Jun 19 22:22:54 XorA|gone: but? Jun 19 22:22:58 s/t/g/ Jun 19 22:22:59 wurp2 meant: XorA|gone: bug? Jun 19 22:23:47 wurp2: in some modes its impossible to type zero on the gtk+ keyboard thingy Jun 19 22:23:59 XorA|gone: Oh, I never use multitap Jun 19 22:24:23 I have a script that I run first thing after burning a new image that removes multitap and installs matchbox-keyboar Jun 19 22:24:26 d Jun 19 22:24:34 I know there's a bug w/ mb kbd somewhere, but I have yet to run into it Jun 19 22:24:45 It's probably in the SMS app, since I rarely use that Jun 19 22:25:05 I never use multitap on my WinMobile Jun 19 22:25:08 stupid idea Jun 19 22:25:11 Has anyone looked into a translucent full-screen overlay keyboard? Jun 19 22:25:17 That seems ideal for SMS Jun 19 22:25:45 and maybe for almost everything else - just put a little dot in one corner that hides it Jun 19 22:25:54 XorA|gone: agreed Jun 19 22:26:20 But I've never had a smartphone before my neo, so I can't really compare to alternatives Jun 19 22:26:52 I hate contracts, and I wasn't about to pay $200+ for a phone that I had to pay to install my own software, or ringtones, on Jun 19 22:31:23 is there some way to browse the old bugzilla? or is it really dead now? Jun 19 22:32:11 did something not make it to trac? Jun 19 22:32:37 XorA|gone: bug #914 Jun 19 22:33:02 i'm not sure what was there, it may have been closed Jun 19 22:33:44 hmm, Id send an email, I thought all bugs were being transfered Jun 19 22:35:03 ok Jun 19 22:35:21 i don't see any other missing bugs Jun 19 22:36:09 #912 is missing Jun 19 22:36:19 I assume bugzilla allocated in order without gaps Jun 19 22:36:29 913 I mean Jun 19 22:36:47 indeed Jun 19 22:37:14 i followed a link from the wiki to bug #914, so it should have been in bugzilla at one time Jun 20 00:07:23 * rwhitby supports hrw's blog post Jun 20 00:07:48 I haven't found a better phone for my needs than the treo650 yet. Jun 20 00:56:04 * ljp just got an E90 Jun 20 00:56:22 I have a dfu-util problem. Anyone wish to speculate Jun 20 00:58:34 You plugged the usb cable into the printer port? The mouse nibbled the connector? just speculating.... Jun 20 01:00:33 lol Jun 20 01:01:35 i dl'ed the binary did chmod +x dfu-util then ./dfu-util and get an error that says cannot execute binary file Jun 20 01:01:53 32/64 bit mismatch? Jun 20 01:02:04 What does "file dfu-util" report? Jun 20 01:02:07 wish i had a 64 Jun 20 01:02:38 thanks., guess i dled the wrong version Jun 20 01:03:04 thats what i get for assuming i did it right. Jun 20 01:08:42 the version linked from the wiki is 64bit, suppose ill compile it myself then Jun 20 01:09:06 You should find the precompiled utilities on the download.openmoko.org site somewhere. Jun 20 01:09:44 thanks for the help, been away from OM for a while **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jun 20 02:59:56 2008