**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 24 02:59:56 2008
Jun 24 03:00:35 <russellb> sure
Jun 24 03:01:02 <aggabee> thanks a bunch!! this is the best christmas ever!!!
Jun 24 03:01:13 <cb22[eee]> <what gets used when memory is exhausted>.avi
Jun 24 03:30:24 <CIA-45> openmoko: 03zecke * rc3da122d3251 10/src/libraries/qtopiacomm/serial/qatchat.cpp: [gsm] Micro-optimasation to answer phonecalls faster
Jun 24 03:41:43 <mmontour> `pwgen`: (and mickeyl: ) - I did a quick test of recording a GSM call on the GTA01. It worked, but the audio quality of the sound from the Neo's mic was poor (more mixer tuning required, I guess). 
Jun 24 03:42:41 <mmontour> I've put my alsa state file at http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/neo/rec.state as a starting point for anyone who wants to do more work in this area
Jun 24 04:14:15 <doc|home> are we really still looking at a 14 day DOA warranty?
Jun 24 05:31:29 <kelvie> which is the official repository for openmoko? the svn or git one?
Jun 24 05:55:57 <CIA-45> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r35d4b4c7c378 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] We want the experimental callhandling fixes from Qtopia
Jun 24 06:35:09 <goodwill> oh sweet mother of tux, I got it running under Qemu
Jun 24 06:35:21 <goodwill> not sure what IT is, but it looks like a much more complete phone
Jun 24 06:35:43 <doc|home> haha
Jun 24 06:35:48 <goodwill> except now I do not know how to get out from the calculator
Jun 24 06:35:54 <doc|home> kill it
Jun 24 06:35:55 <doc|home> with fire
Jun 24 06:36:02 <doc|home> listen to the voices
Jun 24 06:36:08 <goodwill> the spacebar and the enter are supposed to be aux and power key
Jun 24 06:36:14 <goodwill> what the hell is the home key
Jun 24 06:36:20 <doc|home> it's on the end of a match
Jun 24 06:36:30 <doc|home> fire I say, fire! *twitch*
Jun 24 06:37:56 <goodwill> I actually do not know if I am running qutopia or not
Jun 24 06:38:00 <doc|home> fine then
Jun 24 06:38:04 <doc|home> don't laugh
Jun 24 06:38:06 <goodwill> its supposed to eb openmoko-devel-image
Jun 24 06:38:17 <goodwill> doc|home: dood, I am too excited
Jun 24 06:38:24 <goodwill> I suffered...oh how I suffered
Jun 24 06:38:34 <doc|home> hehehe
Jun 24 06:38:35 <goodwill> I am not 100% sure whats even goign on
Jun 24 06:38:42 <doc|home> it's ok, I'm like that all the time
Jun 24 06:38:49 <goodwill> I know....I visit gentoo
Jun 24 06:38:51 <goodwill> :-P
Jun 24 06:38:52 <doc|home> haha
Jun 24 06:38:54 <doc|home> :(
Jun 24 06:39:04 <goodwill> you helped me before with gentoo I believe
Jun 24 06:39:10 <doc|home> I did?
Jun 24 06:39:16 <doc|home> er, yes, I did
Jun 24 06:39:20 <doc|home> we remember everyone :o
Jun 24 06:39:31 <doc|home> ok, enough nonsense out of me. night.
Jun 24 06:39:37 <goodwill> how can I tell what I am running
Jun 24 06:39:46 <goodwill> it should not be qutopia
Jun 24 06:40:33 <goodwill> oh terminal!!!
Jun 24 06:40:37 <goodwill> sweet terminal!!!
Jun 24 06:41:24 <doc|home> haha
Jun 24 06:42:54 <goodwill> any idea as to how can I tell
Jun 24 06:42:56 <goodwill> ?
Jun 24 06:43:21 <doc|home> nope, I don't want to kill the initial feeling of shinehness once I open the box, so not playing with qemu :)
Jun 24 06:43:38 <goodwill> perv!!! :)
Jun 24 06:43:49 <goodwill> how can you actually do that to yourself
Jun 24 06:43:57 <goodwill> how can you live with yourself after this
Jun 24 06:45:48 <methril> morning
Jun 24 06:49:39 <goodwill> ok, I can go to sleep now
Jun 24 06:49:54 <goodwill> elfo: I got the image to compile and run under qemu
Jun 24 06:50:27 <goodwill> elfo: not 100% sure exactly how so I am going to repat the procedure couple of times
Jun 24 06:50:27 <methril> goodwill were are u?
Jun 24 06:50:37 <goodwill> methril: eh?
Jun 24 06:50:52 <methril> because yo tell that yo can go to sleep
Jun 24 06:50:57 <methril> :)
Jun 24 06:51:07 <methril> only curious 
Jun 24 06:51:13 <goodwill> western north american sea board
Jun 24 06:51:27 <goodwill> LA
Jun 24 06:51:33 <goodwill> you?
Jun 24 06:51:36 <doc|home> goodwill: heh. just biding my time.
Jun 24 06:51:49 <goodwill> doc|home: eh?
Jun 24 06:51:56 <goodwill> oh
Jun 24 06:51:59 <doc|home> <goodwill> how can you actually do that to yourself
Jun 24 06:52:06 <methril> Spain
Jun 24 06:52:06 <goodwill> right
Jun 24 06:52:27 <goodwill> methril: I friend just came back from there...said its gourgeous
Jun 24 06:52:36 <goodwill> I=a
Jun 24 06:52:41 <goodwill> anyhow
Jun 24 06:52:45 <goodwill> nappy time
Jun 24 06:52:48 <methril> one question about the Debug board
Jun 24 06:52:56 <goodwill> me?
Jun 24 06:53:19 <methril> it's possible to use as a standard JTAG itnerface (FT2232)
Jun 24 06:53:35 <methril> goodwill: it's nice!!
Jun 24 06:53:41 <methril> I'd like to go to LA too hehehe
Jun 24 06:53:57 <methril> someone checked it?
Jun 24 06:54:23 <goodwill> methril: LA sucks...stay in Spain
Jun 24 06:54:28 <methril> hehe
Jun 24 06:54:37 <methril> i've to check (visit) 
Jun 24 06:54:59 <methril> and maybe practice my english
Jun 24 06:55:08 <goodwill> fine..if you must come down to this super hot cemented city and leave all the spanish beauty...
Jun 24 06:55:21 <goodwill> I can nto help if are a masochist :-P
Jun 24 06:55:37 <goodwill> anyhow
Jun 24 06:55:40 <goodwill> nite nite
Jun 24 06:56:49 <methril> hahaha
Jun 24 06:57:15 <goodwill|sleepy> there
Jun 24 06:57:32 <methril> good night
Jun 24 07:02:41 <Hopscotch> good morning
Jun 24 07:03:02 <lukhas_lap> hello
Jun 24 07:03:44 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r2dbd7554dbd2 10/odeviced/ (15 files in 6 dirs): 
Jun 24 07:03:44 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: * renamed backlight plugin to display
Jun 24 07:03:44 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: * renamed GetCurrentBrightness to GetBrightness
Jun 24 07:04:00 <lukhas_lap> I just flashed my Neo1973 with an ASU image, and I was wondering if there was a way to stop the "low battery warning"
Jun 24 07:04:30 <lukhas_lap> even if it's just killing a process
Jun 24 07:28:09 <CIA-45> openmoko: 03zecke * rcfd36f65f8af 10/BUGS.x11: [bugs] apparently fixed in illume
Jun 24 07:28:10 <CIA-45> openmoko: 03zecke * r3cb2fcb6c50a 10/BUGS.x11: [bugs] Softmenu got reworked, seems to work now
Jun 24 07:28:10 <CIA-45> openmoko: 03zecke * r5702e0ebfc6b 10/src/libraries/qtopiaphone/qphonecall.cpp: [phone] Allow to use QPhoneCall with QueuedConnection signal and slots
Jun 24 08:11:14 <ljp> http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200806240233DOWJONESDJONLINE000060_FORTUNE5.htm
Jun 24 08:35:51 <zedstar> hmmm Nokia bought out remaining shares of Symbian....they have been spending a lot lately
Jun 24 08:37:20 <mjr> 1) Symbian is dying 2) Buy out Symbian! 3) ??? 4) Profit!
Jun 24 08:37:23 <zlfita> seems Android is pushing people
Jun 24 08:37:37 <mjr> at this stage it seems they're trying "hype about open sourcing it" for 3
Jun 24 08:38:05 <zedstar> maybe politically easier to kill off Symbian now they own it....yeh saw that open source route also
Jun 24 08:38:53 <raynet> you cannot kill evil, symbian will live forever
Jun 24 08:39:04 <zlfita> they were using symbian, why kill it?
Jun 24 08:39:45 <mbuf> zedstar, i guess the idea for Nokia is to have closed hardware + Trolltech UI and open up APIs for community development
Jun 24 08:40:27 <zlfita> not open up but distribute them gratis
Jun 24 08:41:22 <zedstar> well i guess QT on symbian with get out of jail route to QT on Linux
Jun 24 08:41:38 <zedstar> who knows they might buy Openmoko in a year or so....stranger things have happened
Jun 24 08:41:47 <mjr> that would be bad
Jun 24 08:41:51 <zedstar> yeh
Jun 24 08:41:53 <cb22[eee]> symbian is not too evil to use
Jun 24 08:43:04 <diego> zedstar, bad only if we can't buy "open" hardware anymore ...
Jun 24 08:44:36 <zedstar> seem though Nokia are trying hard to react to Android...they bought Plazes also so jumping on the "location bandwagon"
Jun 24 08:45:12 <zlfita> things are getting interesting
Jun 24 08:45:47 <zlfita> m$ will probably come out with something that looks like new
Jun 24 08:46:27 <mjr> diego, you mean the kind of hardware nokia is really not into?
Jun 24 08:48:25 <diego> I mean I don't care who owns openmoko till is gpl and exists some hardware to buy that i can run on
Jun 24 08:51:39 <ljp> Eclipse Public License is open
Jun 24 09:56:02 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * rd2c63b37a021 10/odeviced/src/plugins/power/Makefile.am: Fix build errors
Jun 24 09:56:02 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r183f9cbb5db3 10/odeviced/etc/odeviced.conf: fix typo
Jun 24 09:57:51 <CIA-45> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r8b590e7564e6 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [srcrev] Upgrade exposure to be launchable again
Jun 24 10:00:50 <CIA-45> openmoko: 03zecke * rd36f7bbba663 10/src/server/phone/callscreen/themed/callscreen.cpp: [callscreen] Document the bad assumption to be able to fix that later
Jun 24 10:00:50 <CIA-45> openmoko: 03zecke * r5b433744b51c 10/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [callscreen] Improve by updating the layout of the ThemedView less often
Jun 24 10:03:28 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r5af4eb452677 10/odeviced/recipes/odeviced_git.bb: Always fetch the latest revision
Jun 24 10:21:04 <LottoKim> will Freerunner support sms and mms?
Jun 24 10:21:30 <diego> sms is already supported ^^
Jun 24 10:21:49 <lukhas_lap> it's only a matter of UI :)
Jun 24 10:23:03 <stefan_schmidt> lukhas_lap: no, not for MMS. That's also needs a lot more.
Jun 24 10:23:10 <stefan_schmidt> LottoKim: SMS yes, MMS no.
Jun 24 10:23:27 <lukhas_lap> stefan_schmidt: I was completing diego's answer
Jun 24 10:23:36 <lukhas_lap> MMS is entirely different, indeed
Jun 24 10:23:50 <stefan_schmidt> lukhas_lap: oops, sorry. Read it out of context
Jun 24 10:24:07 <lukhas_lap> no problem
Jun 24 10:32:13 <ruskie> hmm
Jun 24 10:32:26 <ruskie> http://www.symbianfoundation.org/ <-- symian to be released under the Eclipse License
Jun 24 10:33:33 <dcordes> maybe that will ease the development of a linux bootloader for the symbian platform
Jun 24 10:34:26 <kvk> im trying to update my build, when i gave "make setup" it is giving error like this -"( git clone -n git://git.openmoko.org/git/bitbake.git bitbake ) destination directory 'bitbake' already exists.
Jun 24 10:34:47 <kvk> can anyone help me in resolving this error?
Jun 24 10:35:01 <ruskie> well I'll be happy with any Free Software implemenatiton for my phone dcordes :)
Jun 24 10:35:13 <ruskie> kvk, rm -rf bitbake ?
Jun 24 10:35:33 <ruskie> that should I think just be cd bitbake && git pull
Jun 24 10:35:42 <ruskie> or git fetch && git rebase
Jun 24 10:35:59 <LottoKim> will the phone be released in Europe?
Jun 24 10:36:29 <mjr> there will be a EU-triband version and there are official EU retailers such as punster I think
Jun 24 10:36:39 <mjr> /pulster
Jun 24 10:36:44 <kvk> ruskie: thanx
Jun 24 10:36:51 <mjr> http://www.pulster.de/engl/index.html
Jun 24 10:37:07 <LottoKim> thanks
Jun 24 10:37:09 <mjr> dunno if the EU sales will go up at the same time as US, hope so
Jun 24 10:37:22 <zlfita> pulster seems to give the best price now
Jun 24 10:37:37 <zlfita> we are also trying to get groups for group order
Jun 24 10:37:46 * ruskie won't be getting one until it is a slider with a 3-4" display and a normal keypad...
Jun 24 10:38:29 <LottoKim> cool:D
Jun 24 10:38:54 <balrog-kun> why only 3-4"?
Jun 24 10:39:54 <balrog-kun> set your treshold at 15"
Jun 24 10:40:58 <cb22[eee]> with at least 200 hours video playback
Jun 24 10:41:33 <ruskie> balrog-kun, I have no need for a bigger screen on a cell phone/pda :)
Jun 24 10:41:55 <ruskie> balrog-kun, not to mention I actually want it small not to big and not to small basicaly :)
Jun 24 10:42:04 <balrog-kun> you mean ascetic :p
Jun 24 10:42:16 <ruskie> ?
Jun 24 10:43:03 <mjr> so you want a 15" roll/fold-up screen!
Jun 24 10:43:10 <ruskie> not me
Jun 24 10:43:17 <ruskie> don't confuse me with balrog-kun ;)
Jun 24 10:43:46 <cb22[eee]> i want a 15" screen that starts at 1.5" and automatically stretchs depending on resolution
Jun 24 10:44:09 <ruskie> basicaly what I want is something along the lines of a n95/n96 but with a bit bigger screen
Jun 24 10:45:04 <kvk> ruskie, i have tried with what you said but is giving error again like this "( git clone -n git://git.openmoko.org/git/openmoko.git openembedded ) destination directory 'openembedded' already exists.
Jun 24 10:45:38 <ruskie> kvk, erm... you need to run a git pull or git fetch && git rebase
Jun 24 10:45:44 <ruskie> since you alread cloned once
Jun 24 10:47:37 <kvk> ruskie, i have done git fetch && git rebase but it is saying "fatal: Needed a single revision, invalid upstream 
Jun 24 10:53:27 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r38c6c1ef3656 10/odeviced/src/plugins/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Remove -ggdb flag for now
Jun 24 10:54:01 <hepaajan> kvk: Maybe your previous version is from svn? Try setup a new build environment in some other directory
Jun 24 10:55:58 <kvk> hepaajan, ok
Jun 24 10:56:13 <CIA-45> openmoko: 03zecke * r5995160a419f 10/src/libraries/qtopia/themedview.cpp: [theme] Optimisation to reduce the number of layouts you do
Jun 24 10:57:09 <hepaajan> mickeyl: morning
Jun 24 10:57:42 <hepaajan> mickeyl: I tried fso-image with gsmd2 yesterday
Jun 24 10:57:57 <mickeyl> heya
Jun 24 10:58:00 <mickeyl> any success?
Jun 24 10:58:19 <hepaajan> It went there quite easily
Jun 24 10:58:26 <spyre> mickeyl: hepaajan's house burned down as a result ;)
Jun 24 10:58:52 <hepaajan> dbus object paths needed to be changed
Jun 24 10:58:56 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * rd3931e1abc2f 10/odeviced/src/plugins/ (4 files in 4 dirs): remove trailing slashes
Jun 24 10:59:17 <mickeyl> hepaajan: right, that's expected
Jun 24 10:59:29 <avtobiff> how big sd cards does the hardware support?
Jun 24 10:59:35 <mickeyl> and zhone is not 100% fso api compliant yet, org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call has a couple of differences 
Jun 24 11:00:38 <hepaajan> yeah
Jun 24 11:01:58 <hepaajan> at least call status stuff (signature + status string 'release' vs. 'released')
Jun 24 11:02:18 <mickeyl> yep
Jun 24 11:02:40 <hepaajan> mickeyl: should the dbus paths be set in stone?
Jun 24 11:04:45 <mickeyl> i don't know. it might be useful to do it until dbus provides a simpler way to query for all objects implementing a said interface @ runtime
Jun 24 11:11:47 <hepaajan> mickeyl: has git.freesmartphone.org changed ssh key recently?
Jun 24 11:11:59 <mickeyl> hepaajan: yes, we updated the server from etch to lenny
Jun 24 11:12:08 <mickeyl> sorry, i should have sent a notice out
Jun 24 11:12:13 * mickeyl lazy sysadmin
Jun 24 11:12:29 <cb22[eee]> mickeyl, tsk tsk tsk
Jun 24 11:12:52 <hepaajan> no worries. Just checking :)
Jun 24 11:13:04 <mickeyl> i'm a better software engineer than sysadmin
Jun 24 11:13:08 <mickeyl> trust me ;)
Jun 24 11:13:33 <cb22[eee]> heh :) i see ASU got a name change
Jun 24 11:14:03 <cb22[eee]> is there going to be a more perminant name for it, or will it always be *SU?
Jun 24 11:14:14 * mickeyl does not know
Jun 24 11:15:44 <cb22[eee]> oh btw, i haven't had much time but i did a quick (really quick) test with python vs shedskin, for a simple program that loops over a list the shedskin compiled program used 1900k whereas running with python used 4300k of memory
Jun 24 11:15:52 <hepaajan> mickeyl: Now it is asking for password for user git. Are there more changes?
Jun 24 11:16:38 <cb22[eee]> i still need to give pypy a shot, which should be interesting
Jun 24 11:17:26 <mickeyl> hepaajan: nothing should have changed in that regard. is your key perhaps one of the debian-weak keys?
Jun 24 11:17:35 <mickeyl> if so, it might have been disable during upgrade of openssl
Jun 24 11:18:01 <hepaajan> mickeyl: It might be. I'll send you new keys.
Jun 24 11:18:05 <mickeyl> oki
Jun 24 11:41:24 <mickeyl> hepaajan: new keys added, please try agian
Jun 24 11:45:12 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03heikki.paajanen 07gsmd2 * r272a9f98143f 10/ (8 files in 3 dirs): Added empty prepare to suspend and recover from suspend implementations
Jun 24 11:45:13 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03heikki.paajanen 07gsmd2 * rc0c070cbad6b 10/ (12 files in 2 dirs): 
Jun 24 11:45:13 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: Bring us closer to fso error spec
Jun 24 11:45:13 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: Remove some debugging prints
Jun 24 11:45:41 <hepaajan> mickeyl: works now, as you can see. thanks :)
Jun 24 11:46:21 <hepaajan> It did give twice this warning: Use of uninitialized value $module in concatenation (.) or string at /usr/local/bin/ciabot.pl line 182.
Jun 24 11:47:57 <shoragan> hepaajan, that is probably some problem in the CIA scribt
Jun 24 11:48:30 <mickeyl> that's normal
Jun 24 11:48:38 <mickeyl> i patched the perl script to include the repository
Jun 24 11:48:46 <mickeyl> now i get some warning since I dunno anything perl
Jun 24 11:48:51 <mickeyl> but as long as it works... ;)
Jun 24 11:50:12 * hepaajan does not like perl
Jun 24 11:57:00 <LottoKim> Is there a emulator for openmoko?
Jun 24 11:57:27 <methril> qemu
Jun 24 11:58:09 <LottoKim> any guides on how it can set it up?
Jun 24 11:58:51 <rwhitby> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu
Jun 24 11:59:09 <timebomb> heya
Jun 24 11:59:13 <LottoKim> thanks
Jun 24 12:00:33 <timebomb> is there some sort of guide to get started porting openmoko oder something to a windows mobile phone?
Jun 24 12:00:37 <LottoKim> hmm.. wrong cert on svn.openmoko...
Jun 24 12:00:48 <timebomb> i imagine if i screw up the bootloader i can trash the phone eh?
Jun 24 12:01:37 <timebomb> wasnt there a way to load linux from inside windows without messing with the bootloader yet? just to try and get the most important stuff up and running?
Jun 24 12:04:15 <mjr> I think there was, for the 95 series of windows at least :] but you have to understand that the various arm devices are a rather different thing
Jun 24 12:04:33 <timebomb> yeah i know
Jun 24 12:05:48 <mjr> (not to mention that I don't know if somebody's kludged linux to boot from the modern windows oses without hardware boot even on x86)
Jun 24 12:06:04 <timebomb> oh
Jun 24 12:06:54 <mjr> it's possible, of course, at least by coding your own driver...
Jun 24 12:14:00 <flaushy> mjr: has to do with memory protection, as i understand it
Jun 24 12:14:13 <timebomb> hm
Jun 24 12:14:17 <flaushy> if u can write over any part of RAM, u can boot and overwrite the OS
Jun 24 12:14:28 <flaushy> "real" OSes should not allow processes to do so
Jun 24 12:16:52 <Jabka> when building qtopia-x11 image i get the next error "/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lXtst" what should i do ?
Jun 24 12:30:37 <CIA-45> openmoko: 03werner * r4496 10/developers/werner/meas/ (32 files in 7 dirs): Charging measurement framework and data.
Jun 24 12:40:51 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * rc96c3c81131f 10/odeviced/src/daemon/plugin.vala: add dbus_iface and dbus_object_paths properties
Jun 24 12:40:54 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r37adad3c0600 10/odeviced/src/daemon/service.vala: 
Jun 24 12:40:54 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: * made is_loaded private
Jun 24 12:40:54 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: * hide run() from DBus
Jun 24 12:40:55 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r9afef457d9a5 10/odeviced/src/plugins/ (4 files in 4 dirs): add dbus_interface key
Jun 24 13:02:01 <zlfita> Jabka, it seems ypu are missing some libraries
Jun 24 13:02:22 <zlfita> search for a file names libXtsd
Jun 24 13:24:39 <igor321> howdy
Jun 24 13:32:55 <opendeep> How to debug in moko , like i get do_install fialed error.
Jun 24 13:38:14 <LottoKim> /usr/local/gcc3/bin/gcc -Wall -O2 -g -fno-strict-aliasing -I. -I/home/kim/openmoko/qemu-neo1973 -MMD -MP -D_GNU_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -I/home/kim/openmoko/qemu-neo1973/slirp    -c -o usb-linux.o usb-linux.c
Jun 24 13:38:19 <LottoKim> In file included from usb-linux.c:31:
Jun 24 13:38:21 <LottoKim> /usr/include/linux/usbdevice_fs.h:49: error: variable or field `__user' declared void
Jun 24 13:38:24 <LottoKim> any idea?
Jun 24 13:39:43 <mjr> is there btw some semi-official information on when the freerunners will be available at the EU resellers _relative to_ the general launch?
Jun 24 13:39:59 <starox> Hello, II built asu image, and I had desactivated the configuration icon. Which file must I chnage to get it again ?
Jun 24 13:42:04 <starox> Trolltech.conf ?
Jun 24 13:42:44 <starox> hmm nop
Jun 24 13:51:22 <lukhas_lap> mjr: same as public launch
Jun 24 13:51:42 <lukhas_lap> since they are shipped from factory to US store and reseller at around the same time
Jun 24 13:51:59 <lukhas_lap> at least that's what we expect at Bearstech :)
Jun 24 13:54:26 <mjr> lukhas_lap, great
Jun 24 14:02:31 <LottoKim> anyone have a updated openmoko/download.sh script?
Jun 24 14:05:01 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * rbb19544f926d 10/odeviced/src/plugins/ (4 files in 4 dirs): re-introduce -ggdb flag
Jun 24 14:05:02 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * rd03640fce8a0 10/odeviced/src/daemon/plugin.vala: change type of dbus_object_paths to a list of strings
Jun 24 14:05:03 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * rada35bde8d90 10/odeviced/src/daemon/service.vala: 
Jun 24 14:05:03 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: add ListObjectsByInterface
Jun 24 14:05:05 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org:  DBus method
Jun 24 14:05:07 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r44214e3b47ac 10/odeviced/src/daemon/helpers.vala: append dbus_paths
Jun 24 14:31:27 <LottoKim> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Test_Openmoko_Emulation_with_chroot_image
Jun 24 14:31:45 <LottoKim> anyone know here i can get the image? the host seems to be down
Jun 24 14:32:48 <XorA> was up 30 secs ago
Jun 24 14:33:47 <XorA> oh that wiki host
Jun 24 14:33:50 <XorA> no idea sorry
Jun 24 14:40:15 <LottoKim> Where to start? I want to contribute:)
Jun 24 15:00:07 <paulproteus> Do you guys know what FSO is that Graeme wrote about on the email list?
Jun 24 15:00:30 <XorA> paulproteus: downloads.openmoko.org/framework/
Jun 24 15:01:06 <XorA> paulproteus: http://downloads.openmoko.org/framework/milestone1/
Jun 24 15:01:13 <XorA> paulproteus: Graeme here BTW :-D
Jun 24 15:01:33 <paulproteus> Like, you are Graeme?
Jun 24 15:01:38 <XorA> yes
Jun 24 15:01:42 <paulproteus> Awesome. (-:
Jun 24 15:02:25 <paulproteus> Very interesting.  How does this development tree relate to the ASU Qtopia-based stuff?
Jun 24 15:02:35 <mickeyl> right now: completely unrelated
Jun 24 15:02:37 <paulproteus> It's totally unrelated, right?
Jun 24 15:02:40 <paulproteus> Right, great.
Jun 24 15:02:42 <mickeyl> the long answer is complicated :))
Jun 24 15:02:44 * XorA hands over to mickeyl the master of FSO
Jun 24 15:02:53 <mickeyl> i try to cook up a largish mail about how this all fits in this week
Jun 24 15:02:58 <paulproteus> mickeyl, Is the stuff that you're trying to get other "Linux on $phone" projects working on?
Jun 24 15:03:06 <mickeyl> exactly that, ya
Jun 24 15:03:17 <paulproteus> AKA, I have a HTC Universal and Magician - would this be good software to try to get going on those?
Jun 24 15:03:21 <mickeyl> absolutely
Jun 24 15:03:24 <mickeyl> not yet, but soon
Jun 24 15:03:38 * XorA is waiting for dcordes to deliver FSO on HTC Kaiser
Jun 24 15:03:41 <paulproteus> Is there an OE build target in org.openembedded.dev?
Jun 24 15:03:48 <paulproteus> (for this stack)
Jun 24 15:03:59 <mickeyl> i'm being paid by Openmoko Inc, so it's going to happen soonest for Neo devices, but I'm a community guy so it will happen for other hardware as well
Jun 24 15:04:05 <mickeyl> bitbake fso-image
Jun 24 15:04:08 <mickeyl> with including
Jun 24 15:04:10 <mickeyl> moko-autorev.inc
Jun 24 15:04:12 <mickeyl> and
Jun 24 15:04:14 <mickeyl> fso-autorev.inc
Jun 24 15:04:22 <paulproteus> Interesting - I don't know about .inc files actually.
Jun 24 15:04:28 <paulproteus> But maybe I'll start a build this instant.
Jun 24 15:04:29 <mickeyl> but beware, we're going to break everything in between of milestones :)
Jun 24 15:04:45 <XorA> paulproteus: run the milestone1 release for a good overview
Jun 24 15:04:46 <paulproteus> Well can I maybe try to build just that milestone then? (-:
Jun 24 15:05:03 <mickeyl> *cough*
Jun 24 15:05:04 <paulproteus> I only have a Neo1973 and Magician and Universal, not GTA02.
Jun 24 15:05:05 <mickeyl> actually
Jun 24 15:05:09 <mickeyl> i forgot to tag ;)
Jun 24 15:05:14 <mickeyl> but just try a build
Jun 24 15:05:19 <Pander> hi all
Jun 24 15:05:20 <mickeyl> and if it doesn't work at all, we'll figure it out
Jun 24 15:05:27 <paulproteus> mickeyl, Perfect
Jun 24 15:06:07 <mickeyl> might also want to view http://downloads.openmoko.org/framework/milestone1/FrameworkMilestone1.m4v ;))
Jun 24 15:06:13 <mickeyl> shortish introduction
Jun 24 15:06:20 <mickeyl> needs some fancy mp4 codecs
Jun 24 15:06:21 <mickeyl> sorry
Jun 24 15:06:36 <XorA> mickeyl: fancy?
Jun 24 15:06:43 <XorA> mickeyl: get off that c64 :-D
Jun 24 15:06:49 <mickeyl> hehehe
Jun 24 15:07:02 * mickeyl blames his MacBookPro
Jun 24 15:07:16 <mickeyl> first time i got DV working 
Jun 24 15:07:20 <XorA> heh heh
Jun 24 15:07:20 <paulproteus> Wow it's quiet.
Jun 24 15:07:30 <XorA> I use a lot of mpeg4 with my PS3 and PSP
Jun 24 15:07:34 <mickeyl> paulproteus: you need faad support
Jun 24 15:07:37 <mickeyl> there _is_ audio :)
Jun 24 15:07:57 <mickeyl> i tried to upload it to youtube, but guess what
Jun 24 15:08:02 <mickeyl> 20 times... 'timeout'
Jun 24 15:08:05 <mickeyl> then i gve u
Jun 24 15:08:07 <mickeyl> then i gave up
Jun 24 15:08:14 <paulproteus> mickeyl, (-:
Jun 24 15:08:22 * paulproteus wgets it now
Jun 24 15:08:40 <tobii_> hrhr mickeyl i have your pin
Jun 24 15:08:41 <tobii_> ;P
Jun 24 15:08:55 <mickeyl> i can change ;)
Jun 24 15:08:56 <paulproteus> Great, another mtn migration.
Jun 24 15:09:02 * paulproteus waits for that to happen
Jun 24 15:09:17 <paulproteus> I can't believe you OE guys have been suffering through this for years.
Jun 24 15:09:21 <paulproteus> Very strong of you!
Jun 24 15:09:35 <mickeyl> *nod*
Jun 24 15:09:51 <XorA> if we ever decide on a commit policy :-(
Jun 24 15:09:58 <mickeyl> it's all over soon
Jun 24 15:10:15 <paulproteus> But I'm still supposed to be using mtn for now, right?
Jun 24 15:11:59 <mickeyl> yep
Jun 24 15:13:47 <spydon> mickeyl, funny video :P
Jun 24 15:13:50 <Pander> Probably a question asked too many times: "Does anyone know when Freerunner will be for sale?"
Jun 24 15:14:17 <spydon> Pander, topic - http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates
Jun 24 15:14:21 <mickeyl> Pander: few days from now
Jun 24 15:14:27 <mickeyl> spydon: ;)
Jun 24 15:15:33 <Pander> thanks
Jun 24 15:16:21 <zlfita> man, my plane ticket is on 4th of July, damn
Jun 24 15:16:34 <Pander> my 2 cents: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Anti-Theft_Mode
Jun 24 15:18:11 <paulproteus> mickeyl, This video is in fact hilarious.
Jun 24 15:18:20 <mickeyl> got audio now? :)
Jun 24 15:18:29 <paulproteus> The problem was the speakers' volume!
Jun 24 15:18:32 <mickeyl> aah
Jun 24 15:18:33 <paulproteus> The software works fine. (-:
Jun 24 15:18:34 <XorA> :-D
Jun 24 15:18:48 <paulproteus> "What else can I do?  Nothing actually!"
Jun 24 15:18:52 <mickeyl> hehe
Jun 24 15:18:53 <paulproteus> This is GTK and X based?
Jun 24 15:18:56 <tschaka> i just checked the wiki today, it says many things arent implemented yet. question, can i transfer files via bluetooth with upcoming freerunner (wiki says no) and whats up with that alarm daemon. is it possible, to have, e.g. a time set for every day, letting the neo connect to a wifi network, sending a wakeup call to a machine on that network? (long story short, running commands on a specific time)?
Jun 24 15:19:00 <mickeyl> no. EFL
Jun 24 15:19:03 <mickeyl> on X
Jun 24 15:19:12 <paulproteus> Pretty koom!
Jun 24 15:19:15 <mickeyl> hahaha
Jun 24 15:19:20 <mickeyl> so much for my spelling ;)
Jun 24 15:19:39 <paulproteus> mtn gave me some I/O error converting my DB.
Jun 24 15:19:53 <mickeyl> uh oh. ~lart mtn
Jun 24 15:20:00 <mickeyl> try to grab a fresh snapshot from oe
Jun 24 15:20:06 <mickeyl> at best one for your mtn
Jun 24 15:20:11 <mickeyl> s/at//
Jun 24 15:20:11 <apt_> mickeyl meant:  best one for your mtn
Jun 24 15:22:07 <paulproteus> Seems to maybe have been a spurious error; pulling and updating now.
Jun 24 15:22:10 <LottoKim> lukhas_lap: What is so complicated with mms?
Jun 24 15:24:41 <lukhas_lap> LottoKim: hmm, basically, you can't be sure of what the reciever accepts
Jun 24 15:25:22 <lukhas_lap> see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_Messaging_Service#Challenges_faced_by_MMS for a better version
Jun 24 15:25:56 <Avenged-Revenge> where can I find a list of applications that will be bundled with the Freerunner?
Jun 24 15:28:53 <LottoKim> lukhas_lap: I see, Thanks
Jun 24 15:30:38 <paulproteus> Okay, now I wait on mtn, brb after shower.
Jun 24 15:31:54 <paulproteus> mickeyl, BTW, are OpenEZX phones being targeted by FSO currently?
Jun 24 15:32:12 <paulproteus> Looks like from your blog post you're planning to; success?
Jun 24 15:33:01 <mickeyl> no success yet... no time. however i'm just working on resurrecting my a1200 and do the first tests.
Jun 24 15:33:14 <mickeyl> i expect the e680, a780 to be supported within the next couple of weeks
Jun 24 15:33:21 <paulproteus> Awesome.
Jun 24 15:33:47 <sandman__> bitbake cross-compiles programs for use on the device? 
Jun 24 15:33:48 <paulproteus> I think this latest release of mtn is slower than previous ones.
Jun 24 15:34:02 <paulproteus> sandman__, Yeah, and it takes care of creating the cross compiler also.
Jun 24 15:34:35 <paulproteus> mickeyl, state_machines++
Jun 24 15:34:40 <sandman__> arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-*
Jun 24 15:34:43 <sandman__> ?
Jun 24 15:34:48 <Sup3rkiddo> i also happen to read some wiki about maemo taking fso
Jun 24 15:34:48 <Sup3rkiddo> maemo 2010
Jun 24 15:37:31 <mmontour> mickeyl: did you see my message earlier about recording a phone call on the GTA01?
Jun 24 15:38:18 <lukhas_lap> so if I understand well, FSO is the base layer under which the fancy apps from ASU will run ?
Jun 24 15:38:40 <lukhas_lap> I'm missing a 3-letter acronym in this sentence, BTW
Jun 24 15:39:22 <paulproteus> Flaming Software Origin
Jun 24 15:39:29 <XorA> mmontour: did you succeed in doing it?
Jun 24 15:40:09 <mmontour> Sort of - it worked, but the audio quality of the Neo's microphone was poor. More mixer tuning is required. 
Jun 24 15:41:02 <paulproteus> `pwgen`, Nice nick.
Jun 24 15:41:05 <XorA> mmontour: yeah
Jun 24 15:41:54 <`pwgen`> *G* 
Jun 24 15:42:04 <LottoKim> Where can i get the Developer release of Neo FreeRunner?
Jun 24 15:42:33 <lukhas_lap> try robbing mickeyl's house
Jun 24 15:42:38 <sandman__> after bitbake has compiled a package, where are the resulting binaries located in the tree
Jun 24 15:43:02 <`pwgen`> or hack his server
Jun 24 15:43:42 <LottoKim> the server runs on one of the Neo FreeRunner, right? :)
Jun 24 15:44:07 <spydon> have anyone tried with 8gb sdhc yet?
Jun 24 15:44:13 <dcordes> sandman__: tempdir/deploy/ipk
Jun 24 15:44:18 <`pwgen`> LottoKim: or use qemu emulator 
Jun 24 15:44:35 <LottoKim> `pwgen`: i tried, but have som issues
Jun 24 15:45:36 <`pwgen`> did you use mokomake  to do initial setup ?
Jun 24 15:47:27 <LottoKim> i compiled qemu-neo1973, tried to run openmoko/download.sh, but it failed
Jun 24 15:47:32 <sandman__> dcordes: thanks
Jun 24 15:48:39 <`pwgen`> LottoKim: some error messeages ? 
Jun 24 15:49:25 <mickeyl> mmontour: yes, thanks. i copied the state file. will try to repeat your findings
Jun 24 15:49:55 <`pwgen`> mmontour: .state file for recording ?
Jun 24 15:50:19 <mmontour> mickeyl: with those settings it will probably sound like crap. It's really just a proof-of-concept to show that recording is possible. 
Jun 24 15:51:28 <mmontour> That state file is set to record outgoing audio on one stereo channel and incoming on the other. Another way to do it would be to use the "record mixer" to combine both onto a single mono channel.
Jun 24 15:51:49 <LottoKim> `pwgen`: http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1500
Jun 24 15:51:55 <mickeyl> XorA: is that possible?
Jun 24 15:52:07 <mmontour> `pwgen`: yes - http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/neo/rec.state
Jun 24 15:52:26 <XorA> gimme a sec, I dont keep the diagram in my head :-)
Jun 24 15:52:48 <mickeyl> no? :)
Jun 24 15:55:14 <XorA> mickeyl: yes that would work
Jun 24 15:55:19 <mickeyl> thanks
Jun 24 15:55:19 <mickeyl> cool
Jun 24 15:55:22 <XorA> mickeyl: and work even better on gta02
Jun 24 15:56:06 <XorA> you can never get mono with i2s though, just to point this out
Jun 24 15:56:24 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: fso image still working !!   still receving calls ( moved some kilometers, many resume cycles with  wakeup testcalls within the last 24h )
Jun 24 15:56:38 <mickeyl> `pwgen`: mmh, glad to hear
Jun 24 15:57:41 <`pwgen`>  but  missed  testcall, because the resume was too slow ( mybe disable debugging will speed up )
Jun 24 15:57:46 <XorA> \o/
Jun 24 15:57:56 <`pwgen`> missed only 1 testcall ...
Jun 24 15:58:09 <SpeedEvil> That's horrible for you.
Jun 24 15:58:12 <SpeedEvil> Oh - misread.
Jun 24 15:58:42 <mickeyl> ya, i think we can speed up a bit
Jun 24 15:58:50 <mickeyl> garmin did remove VT switching iirc
Jun 24 15:58:53 <mickeyl> we should do that as well
Jun 24 15:58:59 <mickeyl> and make X use the current VT
Jun 24 15:59:11 <`pwgen`> LottoKim: change the download path to someting youn can find below http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/ or download my hand 
Jun 24 15:59:14 <CIA-45> openmoko: 03graeme 07org.openmoko.dev * red20cf60b310 10/packages/s3c24xx-utils/sjf2410-linux-native_svn.bb: [sjf25410] deploy into DEPLOY_DIR_NATIVE
Jun 24 16:00:27 <CIA-45> openmoko: 03werner * r4497 10/developers/werner/meas/chg/ (13 files in 3 dirs): 
Jun 24 16:00:27 <CIA-45> openmoko: Two new experiments towards lowering power consumption:
Jun 24 16:00:27 <CIA-45> openmoko: - choke-glamo keeps the Glamo turned off
Jun 24 16:00:27 <CIA-45> openmoko: - cpu-idle puts the CPU in IDLE mode (instead of busy-looping) while
Jun 24 16:00:27 <CIA-45> openmoko:  waiting for activity
Jun 24 16:01:03 <LottoKim> `pwgen`: thanks, trying that now
Jun 24 16:01:06 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: some idea why the fso image isn't capable to mount the sd-card ?
Jun 24 16:03:05 <mickeyl> no idea
Jun 24 16:03:10 <wurp2> `pwgen`: What kernel are you using with FSO?  And you're running Milestone 1?
Jun 24 16:05:20 <`pwgen`> yes it's milestone1 uImage-2.6.24-rc8+git2+421....
Jun 24 16:05:44 <`pwgen`> but i can boot the sd card with this kernel 
Jun 24 16:08:08 <`pwgen`> is there some magic, that activates the mmc device if the cmdline contains root=/dev/mmc.... ?
Jun 24 16:08:46 <wurp2> `pwgen`: I think the code to read mmc during boot is totally different than the code to read mmc after boot
Jun 24 16:08:54 <wurp2> The code for boot is from the uboot image, no?
Jun 24 16:09:25 <SpeedEvil> Essential equipment for charging your freerunner.
Jun 24 16:09:27 <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200231742008&ih=010&category=58177&_trksid=p3910.m8&_trkparms=algo%3DMW%26its%3DD%252BC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D3%26po%3DOp1%26ps%3D4
Jun 24 16:09:33 <`pwgen`> after boot is an udev job i think
Jun 24 16:09:43 <SpeedEvil> (with a small dynamo)
Jun 24 16:10:49 <XorA> holy crap
Jun 24 16:11:01 <`pwgen`> the right power source for ultra mobile devices 
Jun 24 16:12:58 <`pwgen`> wurp2: with a kernel some days younger and build on my home buildsystem, the mmc would be found, but resume was ugly slow 
Jun 24 16:16:32 <wurp2> `pwgen`: weird.
Jun 24 16:17:05 <Avenged-Revenge> `has anyone noticed that the ringers on the wiki are kind of... not good?
Jun 24 16:17:06 <wurp2> I didn't know resume was working at all in the fso branch of the kernel, so that's good to hear anyway
Jun 24 16:17:56 <`pwgen`> resume -- perfect with the FSO ( nearly perfect, a bit slow  ) 
Jun 24 16:18:53 <wurp2> `pwgen`: Have you tried installing any 2007.2 apps on the fso?
Jun 24 16:19:10 <wurp2> terminal, tango or navit, etc.
Jun 24 16:20:23 <abraxa_> Avenged-Revenge: Ringers? As in... ring tones?
Jun 24 16:20:25 <`pwgen`> wurp2: i avoid useing 2007.2 because i am not convinced about the concept ( named pipe for gsmd )
Jun 24 16:22:05 <LottoKim> I2C:   ready
Jun 24 16:22:05 <LottoKim> DRAM:  128 MB
Jun 24 16:22:05 <LottoKim> NAND:  Bad block table not found for chip 0
Jun 24 16:22:05 <LottoKim> Bad block table not found for chip 0
Jun 24 16:22:08 <LottoKim> is this normal?
Jun 24 16:22:16 <`pwgen`> a little glue that will connect the good ophoned/pyneod gsm interface with the 2007.2 gui would be a step to the right direction  ( at my point of view ) 
Jun 24 16:23:46 <`pwgen`> LottoKim: maybe wrong image .. gta02 instead of gta01 ?
Jun 24 16:24:12 <LottoKim> `pwgen`: using gta01
Jun 24 16:25:27 <`pwgen`> LottoKim: started qemu for gta02 ? ( its a long time ago i used qemu)
Jun 24 16:25:42 <kdean06> Has the Nokia buyout of Symbian been tossed on here yet?
Jun 24 16:25:53 <mjr> yes
Jun 24 16:26:22 <LottoKim> `pwgen`: using gta01 only, tried with gta02 first
Jun 24 16:26:38 <LottoKim> Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080624-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2, uboot-gta01bv4-latest.bin, 9250c1fc7d6f62075d14ad8f396748490a55d61e-r0-om-gta01.bin
Jun 24 16:27:07 <LottoKim> uImage-2.6.24+git13+9250c1fc7d6f62075d14ad8f396748490a55d61e-r0-om-gta01.bin
Jun 24 16:34:48 <`pwgen`> LottoKim: mompl, i try to reanimate my old qemu image 
Jun 24 16:35:30 <Avenged-Revenge> abraxa_ ringtones, ringers, whatever you call em I'm not sure I like the ones on the wiki
Jun 24 16:35:40 <Avenged-Revenge> actually I'm pretty sure.
Jun 24 16:36:28 <abraxa_> Avenged-Revenge: Well, what's the problem? Just pick your own :)
Jun 24 16:37:03 <Avenged-Revenge> haha, yeah I guess I do that with any other phone
Jun 24 16:39:05 <methril|laptop> yo
Jun 24 16:43:38 <sandman__> is there an ipkg for gcc or should I just cp the gcc binary over
Jun 24 16:44:53 <sandman__> never mind =)
Jun 24 16:48:27 <wurp2> `pwgen`: I wasn't actually aware of the 2007.2 model for gsm communications, and I wasn't suggesting installing any 2007.2 phone apps - I was hoping to get to use a media player, terminal, gps app on fso so I could have a useful phone + other toys :-)
Jun 24 16:51:39 <wurp2> I agree that the idea of having a low level service with an API is much better than just opening up a pipe to the gsm and letting everyone have at it
Jun 24 16:52:43 <Qwell> I'd love to have direct access to the gsm chip - especially if it meant I could have it transcode audio
Jun 24 16:52:47 <CVirus> 10 days left
Jun 24 16:53:04 <methril|laptop> 10 days left for what?
Jun 24 16:53:14 <methril|laptop> the Freerunner release?
Jun 24 16:53:17 <CVirus> yes
Jun 24 16:53:31 <tobii_> don'T believe that
Jun 24 16:53:33 <tobii_> ;D
Jun 24 16:53:37 <CVirus> I don't
Jun 24 16:53:48 <CVirus> just trying to convince myself that it's true
Jun 24 16:53:57 <tobii_> hehe
Jun 24 16:53:57 <CVirus> steve will just come up with another execuse .. hehe
Jun 24 16:54:33 <zlfita> will it have more than one revisions?
Jun 24 16:54:53 <zlfita> how wise is it to buy one from the first batch?
Jun 24 16:55:02 <`pwgen`> i did this on my 2G sd card ( with bt keyboard and icewm + gpsdrive +many other apps ) see scrshoot at http://pastebin.org/45886
Jun 24 16:55:47 <CVirus> zlfita: the phones and the production line have been tested a thousand times ... I'm getting mine from the first batch for fuck's sake
Jun 24 16:56:00 <`pwgen`> wurp2: http://pastebin.org/45886 *G*
Jun 24 16:56:40 <wurp2> Heh, link to pastebin containing link to your site, nice ;-)
Jun 24 16:57:30 <zlfita> neat! nice job
Jun 24 16:57:33 <wurp2> Excellent, I'm glad (and kind of surprised, at this early stage) that you can build a good platform w/ lots of functionality on FSO
Jun 24 16:57:40 <`pwgen`> i have a freerunner bt keyboard to use the terminal and other apps
Jun 24 16:58:41 <wurp2> `pwgen`: I don't suppose you could issue a 'opkg list_installed > installed.opkg' and send me the results? :-)
Jun 24 16:58:46 <`pwgen`> but the zhone ist workin for now on this image (:-(( ( partly . o can do call but not hangup , or take an incomeing call ). 
Jun 24 16:58:54 <wurp2> I'm using an iGo kbd
Jun 24 16:59:09 <wurp2> Oh, so that's not a milestone 1 + some other stuff installed
Jun 24 17:00:04 <wurp2> Hrm, good point, though - no sw kbd in fso, and probably no provision for one
Jun 24 17:00:11 <zlfita> what does FSO stand for?
Jun 24 17:00:28 <XorA|gone> Freerunner Secret O........
Jun 24 17:00:41 <XorA|gone> freesmartphone.org
Jun 24 17:02:03 <`pwgen`> wurp2: i added pkg list ( opkg list_installed .. )
Jun 24 17:03:42 <wurp2> `pwgen`: Thanks!
Jun 24 17:04:56 <`pwgen`> wurp2: build on mokomake openembedded, so some packeges may be outdated 
Jun 24 17:05:04 <wurp2> er, and I hate to keep asking you for things, but... where do I find the repository info?
Jun 24 17:06:04 <`pwgen`> this came from a self build repo ( build on an xen machine aprox 15000 cpu clocks nearly 24 hour )
Jun 24 17:06:05 <wurp2> Hrm, if you built them all yourself I guess there isn't repository info :-/
Jun 24 17:06:22 <wurp2> heh
Jun 24 17:06:22 <`pwgen`> mompl
Jun 24 17:08:44 <elfo> -awaz afk
Jun 24 17:09:23 <`pwgen`> wurp2: try  .dyndns.org:8080
Jun 24 17:09:49 <wurp2> `pwgen`: I can't access ports other than 80 or 443 from work  :-(
Jun 24 17:10:05 <wurp2> I'll email it to myself at home, though
Jun 24 17:12:07 <`pwgen`> i put a link on the trac where  to get permanently the repo  cause i had to leave in 30 min 
Jun 24 17:12:37 <wurp2> thanks much for all the helpful info
Jun 24 17:23:59 <LottoKim> wurp2: did you get it up and running?
Jun 24 17:26:07 <wurp2> LottoKim: I'm at work, with no dfu-util access
Jun 24 17:26:17 <wurp2> So no :-/
Jun 24 17:26:28 <LottoKim> no problem:)
Jun 24 17:26:43 <wurp2> I hope to get after it in about 10 hours :-)
Jun 24 17:27:02 <LottoKim> I will try some more
Jun 24 17:27:52 <LottoKim> NAND:  Bad block table not found for chip 0
Jun 24 17:28:05 <LottoKim> it means the nand flash is corrupt?
Jun 24 17:29:37 <wurp2> LottoKim: Did you try reflashing?
Jun 24 17:29:56 <LottoKim> yes
Jun 24 17:31:26 <diego> LottoKim, perhaps is the image that is corrupted
Jun 24 17:34:48 <`pwgen`> wurp: i copy the images on an permantely server you can get them under /moko/...
Jun 24 17:35:07 <LottoKim> kim@lotta:~/openmoko/qemu-neo1973/openmoko> hexdump openmoko-flash.base
Jun 24 17:35:07 <LottoKim> 0000000 ffff ffff ffff ffff ffff ffff ffff ffff
Jun 24 17:35:07 <LottoKim> *
Jun 24 17:35:07 <LottoKim> 4200000
Jun 24 17:35:18 <`pwgen`>  ans will sync it in future to get more fresh packages
Jun 24 17:37:56 <LottoKim> same issue with a different image
Jun 24 17:40:35 <CIA-45> openmoko: 03zecke * rc908a52fd530 10/src/server/server.pro: [server] Remove the shutdown task from the server
Jun 24 17:40:36 <CIA-45> openmoko: 03zecke * ra59652d8a9e3 10/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of git+ssh://git@git.openmoko.org/var/cache/git/qtopia
Jun 24 17:40:37 <CIA-45> openmoko: 03zecke * ra779f74b7572 10/src/libraries/qtopia/themedview.cpp: Merge branch 'master' of git+ssh://git@git.openmoko.org/var/cache/git/qtopia
Jun 24 17:40:37 <CIA-45> openmoko: 03zecke * rcd163b0185f7 10/src/server/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [homescreen] Provide a dummy homescreen that replaces themed one
Jun 24 17:40:40 <CIA-45> openmoko: 03zecke * r26c87ba6fe67 10/src/ (5 files in 4 dirs): [theme] Attempt to minimize the calls to ThemedView::layout
Jun 24 17:41:31 <fgau> LottoKim: try a nand erase rootfs kernel before you flash http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Nand_erase
Jun 24 17:43:05 <balrog-kun> LottoKim: are you reflashing the emulator?  if you use the flash.sh it removes the image and starts with a new one everytime
Jun 24 17:43:52 <LottoKim> balrog-kun: I'm using flash.sh
Jun 24 17:44:05 <`pwgen`> LottoKim: i tried a "make qemu"  with mokomake and now i ha a running emulator .
Jun 24 17:44:23 <`pwgen`> s/ha/have/
Jun 24 17:44:23 <apt_> `pwgen` meant: LottoKim: i tried a "make qemu"  with mokomake and now i have a running emulator .
Jun 24 17:44:35 <balrog-kun> an empty flash is filled with ffff's so that's what you see
Jun 24 17:47:10 <`pwgen`> i must leave .... bye ...
Jun 24 17:47:24 <methril|laptop> bye
Jun 24 17:50:34 <LottoKim> aha, i have been using the manual step
Jun 24 17:50:57 <balrog-kun> how is it failing?
Jun 24 17:52:40 <LottoKim> http://www.pastebin.cz/show/6432
Jun 24 17:55:20 <sandman__> where is the cache for opkg located on the phone
Jun 24 17:57:39 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r29a27120a7a3 10/odeviced/src/daemon/service.vala: WTF alert: make ListObjectsByInterface return the first object path
Jun 24 17:58:35 <balrog-kun> LottoKim: strange, i guess it may be something in today's images
Jun 24 17:58:58 <balrog-kun> LottoKim: the Mokomakefile doesn't do more than call flash.sh so it should have the same effect
Jun 24 17:59:47 <LottoKim> its bookting now
Jun 24 17:59:55 <balrog-kun> yay
Jun 24 17:59:59 <LottoKim> :D
Jun 24 18:00:09 <LottoKim> Thanks anyone
Jun 24 18:02:50 <LottoKim> Hmm. I'm not able to do anything with it
Jun 24 18:11:57 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r639b3855f13b 10/ (4 files in 3 dirs): controller: move quering objects out of odeviced and unconditionally into the framework
Jun 24 18:11:57 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r0c2b55d857ac 10/framework/subsystems/odeviced/info.py: odeviced: add info object
Jun 24 18:27:59 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r610cb57bb4f8 10/odeviced/src/daemon/service.vala: GetObjectsByInterface returns an array of strings now, should work with zhone
Jun 24 18:46:12 <erko> I'm trying to get mmc working with zhone on my GTA01.  Any suggestions?  (pwgen? wurp2?)
Jun 24 18:56:37 <malik1972> what about the fso images?
Jun 24 18:58:34 <wurp2> erko: afaik, no one knows how to make it work with the latest fso images
Jun 24 18:59:17 <wurp2> erko: `pwgen` had it working in a home-built version of fso from a few days ago, but apparently that version didn't have stable calling, so that's not much help
Jun 24 18:59:30 <wurp2> malik1972: zhone == fso images
Jun 24 19:01:51 <dos> malik1972: http://downloads.openmoko.org/framework/milestone1/
Jun 24 19:02:47 <malik1972> thanx, i try to emulate it, got some qt screen with 4 icons, but nothing happens "no network"
Jun 24 19:03:26 <erko> wurp2, ah, ok. for kicks I tried flashing an asu kernel with the fso rootfs.  It kind of works, but gsm dropped out after a couple of calls.
Jun 24 19:04:18 <wurp2> erko: `pwgen` was having good luck with a stock version of the fso kernel
Jun 24 19:04:42 <wurp2> The name of the image should be in the room history, about 2-3 hours back.
Jun 24 19:05:02 <wurp2> erko: But mmc support wasn't there
Jun 24 19:05:16 <wurp2> erko: His good luck was with calls, including suspend & resume
Jun 24 19:05:22 <erko> wurp2: yes, the stock kernel worked for calls for me too.  but the asu kernel did give me mmc support.  Maybe the zhone kernel needs the mmc option enabled.
Jun 24 19:05:33 <wurp2> ah
Jun 24 19:05:42 <Sup3rkiddo> http://134.169.172.106/~jluebbe/images/neo1973/ for the newer ones
Jun 24 19:05:46 <Sup3rkiddo> milestones are for weenies
Jun 24 19:05:50 <Sup3rkiddo> :P
Jun 24 19:05:52 <erko> :)
Jun 24 19:05:58 <wurp2> weenies who want their phone to work
Jun 24 19:06:15 <Sup3rkiddo> wurp2, hehe
Jun 24 19:06:19 <wurp2> :-)
Jun 24 19:06:34 <Sup3rkiddo> or bitbake fso-image
Jun 24 19:06:49 <Sup3rkiddo> althought it barfs at mickeyterminal
Jun 24 19:07:08 <cyrilRomain> OMG, Nokia is buying all the companies: Trolltech, Navteq, Plazes, symbian, ..
Jun 24 19:07:21 <Sup3rkiddo> cd builds && . ../setup-env && bitbake fso-image
Jun 24 19:07:39 <Avenged-Revenge> so we're thinking orders can be taken place by july 1st?
Jun 24 19:08:04 <lpotter> cyrilRomain: we are the Norg. resistence if futile. prepare to be assimilated.
Jun 24 19:09:07 <cyrilRomain> lpotter: gah, if it's for freeing more code I agree resistence is futile, otherwise I'm totally against it
Jun 24 19:09:22 <dos> cyrilRomain: maybe they will buy windows mobile and android too? ;D
Jun 24 19:09:23 <SpeedEvil> 'Due to a mistake in the coding of the online store, Nokia has accidentally bought OpenMoko Inc, for $399. Operations are hence suspended'.
Jun 24 19:09:42 <dos> lol xD
Jun 24 19:09:49 <lpotter> cyrilRomain: the announcemnt says that they will use the Eclipse Public License
Jun 24 19:11:23 <goodwill|sleepy> what exactly is mmc?
Jun 24 19:11:28 * cyrilRomain is still angry to hear the 500 bigest companies of the world own about 50% of the wealth :-(
Jun 24 19:12:03 <cyrilRomain> SpeedEvil: lol
Jun 24 19:12:16 <erko> goodwill: sd card support
Jun 24 19:12:16 <lpotter> cyrilRomain: at leat Nokia seems to be trying to be a good 'citizen'
Jun 24 19:12:25 <lpotter> least, that is
Jun 24 19:12:31 <zedstar> all your base are belong to us
Jun 24 19:12:33 <cyrilRomain> lpotter: as google seems to be, as Apple seems to be ....
Jun 24 19:13:05 <cyrilRomain> s/seems/seemed/ (?)
Jun 24 19:13:08 <lpotter> cyrilRomain: not so sure how Apple is
Jun 24 19:13:55 <cyrilRomain> lpotter: Apple hire open source developers like Chris Latner (llvm). I'm pretty sure not all the code if put back in the llvm public repository :-/
Jun 24 19:14:08 <zedstar> dont trust google if they have their way we will be all using web browsers and storing all our data on their servers
Jun 24 19:14:08 <mjr> apple certainly doesn't seem to, nokia doesn't seem to, google, hmm
Jun 24 19:14:09 <cyrilRomain> s/if/is not/
Jun 24 19:14:10 <apt_> cyrilRomain meant: lpotter: Apple hire open source developers like Chris Latner (llvm). I'm pretty sure not all the code is not put back in the llvm public repository :-/
Jun 24 19:14:53 <mjr> nokia does pay lip service, but at the same time continues the backstabs
Jun 24 19:14:54 <SpeedEvil> But google is not evil!
Jun 24 19:14:59 <SpeedEvil> (unless you're not online)
Jun 24 19:15:25 <lpotter> cyrilRomain: when Apple announces they are releasing mac os x as open source, then I will start to notice
Jun 24 19:15:33 <cyrilRomain> lpotter: me too
Jun 24 19:17:05 <lpotter> cyrilRomain: although, the EPL is open source, we will see just how much they release as open source. 
Jun 24 19:19:48 <cyrilRomain> lpotter: yeah, because it's easy when you have so much money that Trolltech is nothing to buy, and because it's too easy to "appropriate" open source code (see webkit code coming from KHTML)
Jun 24 19:20:23 <balrog-kun> nokia does a fair bit of oss work
Jun 24 19:21:22 <mjr> they do, they're just rather schizoid about it
Jun 24 19:21:47 <balrog-kun> my feeling is that google does less
Jun 24 19:22:23 <mjr> like, it'd be nice if nokia didn't lobby for directly relevant suppressive, monopolistic legislation and against open formats :]
Jun 24 19:24:32 <mjr> (and those things about foss devs needing to embrace drm and people stealing their free software)
Jun 24 19:24:49 <cyrilRomain> balrog-kun: google surely does less, although the google summer of code might prove it wrong. But if you really compare the money they spend in Gsoc and the profit they make you then understand that Gsoc is almost 'marketing' only
Jun 24 19:25:26 <cyrilRomain> well, sorry to be off topic. I'll shut off now
Jun 24 19:26:42 <CM> mjr: Ari did express himself a bit bad there, for sure
Jun 24 19:26:53 <CM> But at least some people there really do get open source
Jun 24 19:27:07 <linuxxee> u cant steal free software
Jun 24 19:27:17 <mjr> some, maybe, but they don't seem to be in any positions of power
Jun 24 19:27:26 <SpeedEvil> GPL!=free
Jun 24 19:27:28 <CM> Was at a seminar with some people from Ericsson and Nokia and other people, and the Ericsson people were totally clueless
Jun 24 19:27:50 * cyrilRomain second SpeedEvil 
Jun 24 19:27:58 <CM> mjr: True, they are still from the good old proprietary days
Jun 24 19:28:33 <mjr> so "yay, Nokia has people who get FOSS - as code monkeys who do what they're told"
Jun 24 19:30:39 <mjr> well, I'll stop now too, but not before my favourite quote on the matter: http://liw.iki.fi/liw/log/2004-12.html#20041208b
Jun 24 19:35:24 <erko> Sup3rkiddo, thanks for the up to date builds.  zhone working with mmc support now.  Made a few calls with no problems.
Jun 24 19:36:03 <Sup3rkiddo> erko, :D, cool...you mean bitbake fso-image or jluebbe's images?
Jun 24 19:36:16 <erko> jluebbe's images
Jun 24 19:40:57 <Sup3rkiddo> erko, oh ok
Jun 24 19:47:22 <Sup3rkiddo> erko, strange, are you able to ssh into your phone?
Jun 24 19:47:56 <erko> yep, works fine for me, you?
Jun 24 19:48:19 <Sup3rkiddo> erko, nope, blank passwords doesn seem to work
Jun 24 19:50:20 <erko> Sup3rkiddo:  hmm, here are the files I flashed in case it matters: Openmoko-fso-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080622-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2  and  uImage-2.6.24+git17+9250c1fc7d6f62075d14ad8f396748490a55d61e-r0-om-gta01.bin
Jun 24 19:50:41 <Sup3rkiddo> yeah thanks
Jun 24 19:55:01 <wurp2> erko: Have you tested suspend & resume on those?
Jun 24 19:56:17 <kdean06> Has there been a new Framework image released?
Jun 24 19:56:23 <erko> wurp2, nope
Jun 24 19:58:25 <erko> kdean06: nope, but Sup3rkiddo posted this link with more recent images:  http://134.169.172.106/~jluebbe/images/neo1973/
Jun 24 19:59:01 <kdean06> What's new about it?
Jun 24 19:59:07 <kdean06> SMS added in?
Jun 24 19:59:15 <kdean06> OR is it still the phone only?
Jun 24 20:00:34 <erko> kdean06:  I'm not sure if anything's new, but I was just looking to get my SD card to work.  
Jun 24 20:00:56 <kdean06> Oh, okay. :)
Jun 24 20:01:01 <Sup3rkiddo> just some changes internally afaik
Jun 24 20:01:16 <kdean06> I used the milestone release, and it worked pretty well.
Jun 24 20:01:28 <kdean06> I like Zhone. :)
Jun 24 20:01:29 <Sup3rkiddo> i have been trying to get the latest git code
Jun 24 20:01:37 <Sup3rkiddo> bitbake fso-image
Jun 24 20:01:40 <wurp2> kdean06: SD card, suspend/resume
Jun 24 20:01:44 <Sup3rkiddo> always barfs at mickeyterminal
Jun 24 20:01:52 <Sup3rkiddo> suspend seems to work
Jun 24 20:01:59 <kdean06> But I really wish I knew how the project related to the ASU... 
Jun 24 20:02:06 <wurp2> kdean06: It doesn't :-(
Jun 24 20:02:12 <kdean06> ?
Jun 24 20:02:34 <wurp2> I've asked exactly that question & that's the answer I got
Jun 24 20:02:41 <zash> Are ppl using gmail double clicking the send-button or what?
Jun 24 20:02:57 <Sup3rkiddo> kdean06, theoretically it could
Jun 24 20:02:59 <Sup3rkiddo> :P
Jun 24 20:03:05 <wurp2> iirc mickeyl's plan is to get fso working, then push to get the framework integrated into whatever the OM build plan is then
Jun 24 20:03:14 <kdean06> So openmoko is developing a framework (represented in the FSO) and a line of software (represented in the ASU) and has no intentions on merging the two?
Jun 24 20:03:27 <zash> i got 3 nearly identical mails, with only timestamps and server-path diffing
Jun 24 20:03:34 <wurp2> is OM developing fso?
Jun 24 20:03:55 <zash> define:fso
Jun 24 20:03:56 <wurp2> I thought that initially, but after hearing mickeyl talk about it I'm not sure
Jun 24 20:04:18 <wurp2> kdean06: honestly, I have no idea wtf OM is doing any more
Jun 24 20:04:18 <summatusmentis> I feel like fso is a side project, or a sub project of OM
Jun 24 20:04:30 <kdean06> The "Openmoko Framework" is being developed by Openmoko I thought, and the FSO images were examples of software based on the framework.
Jun 24 20:04:50 <wurp2> kdean06: based on the name, one would think that :-)
Jun 24 20:05:03 <kdean06> I assumed this framework would eventually be worked into the ASU.
Jun 24 20:05:10 <kdean06> But if that's not the case...
Jun 24 20:05:20 <kdean06> Then Openmoko Inc. has some serious brand management issue. :P
Jun 24 20:05:23 <wurp2> I should say, the actual question I asked was what is the relationship between Milestone 1 and ASU
Jun 24 20:05:30 <mjr> from what I've gathered the intention is to merge, but to first ship the q'n'd asu
Jun 24 20:05:34 <wurp2> so it's possible I misinterpreted the answer...
Jun 24 20:06:25 <kdean06> I assumed that "Openmoko" was a distro based on OpenEmbedded and that Openmoko Inc. was developing it. But if the fso is actually "unofficial" then it would actually seem that 'Openmoko' is more "any softwarte that runs on a Neo device".
Jun 24 20:06:59 <kdean06> I don't have a problem with that at all, I love competition that forces innovation. :)
Jun 24 20:07:09 <kdean06> But there's some really bad communication going on here. :P
Jun 24 20:07:13 <mjr> (from mickey's talks, so go to him for my primary source)
Jun 24 20:09:11 <wurp2> mjr: That's what I thought to, but the way mickeyl phrased it, it sounds as if *his* plan is to merge, and it sounded as if he expected to have to make it be OM's plan
Jun 24 20:09:34 <kdean06> I suppose that's an issue too...
Jun 24 20:09:42 <erko> wurp2: i think mickey == OM (approximately)
Jun 24 20:09:45 <wurp2> s/to,/too,/
Jun 24 20:09:45 <apt_> wurp2 meant: mjr: That's what I thought too, but the way mickeyl phrased it, it sounds as if *his* plan is to merge, and it sounded as if he expected to have to make it be OM's plan
Jun 24 20:09:46 <kdean06> Yeah.
Jun 24 20:09:50 <kdean06> That's what I'm saying.
Jun 24 20:10:11 <mjr> ah well, fuck it, just gimme a linux handheld with phone/sms/data _somehow_ :]
Jun 24 20:10:14 <wurp2> erko: Well, I'm pretty sure that when mickey started fso, it had no OM support
Jun 24 20:10:15 <erko> (oops, that was for _apt)
Jun 24 20:10:26 <kdean06> If someone writing code for Openmoko Inc. says they have plans to merge it, that is Openmoko saying there are plans to merge, IMO.
Jun 24 20:10:28 <wurp2> mjr: agreed
Jun 24 20:10:30 <erko> wurp2, ah
Jun 24 20:10:36 <kdean06> Communication issues. :S
Jun 24 20:10:54 <wurp2> kdean06: big time
Jun 24 20:11:10 <wurp2> kdean06: To the point that I dunno who could even say it that would make it official
Jun 24 20:11:33 <wurp2> steve needs to annoint someone the OM software architecture spokesperson
Jun 24 20:11:45 <kdean06> lol
Jun 24 20:11:55 <kdean06> Which steve? :P
Jun 24 20:12:03 <wurp2> The Steve
Jun 24 20:12:05 <kdean06> The one that said "I'm in marketing, don't ask me about software?"
Jun 24 20:12:11 <wurp2> yeah, that guy
Jun 24 20:12:18 <kdean06> LMFAO
Jun 24 20:12:21 <wurp2> Sean could do it to
Jun 24 20:12:23 <wurp2> o
Jun 24 20:12:56 <wurp2> This is a marketing problem, though...
Jun 24 20:13:23 <kdean06> I'd say Michael Shiloh has more to this... Isn't he the "Community Liasion" or something?
Jun 24 20:13:42 <kdean06> Sometiems I feel that Openmoko uses "openness" to create chaos to conceal what's happening. :P
Jun 24 20:14:44 * XorA|gone points out that mickeyl is already Openmoko Software Architect
Jun 24 20:15:43 <kdean06> WHich is why I think his word is official. :P
Jun 24 20:15:46 <kdean06> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenmokoFramework#Answering_the_TOP_x_questions
Jun 24 20:15:54 <kdean06> "Is this the mystic ASU" -> No.
Jun 24 20:15:58 <kdean06> That said...
Jun 24 20:16:08 <kdean06> That's the same tree that was put in when announcing the ASU. :P
Jun 24 20:16:19 <kdean06> Actually...
Jun 24 20:16:20 <kdean06> Hrm.
Jun 24 20:16:37 <wurp2> Yeah, but his official word is "I want OM to merge this"
Jun 24 20:16:53 <kdean06> It seems like that makes sense.
Jun 24 20:17:00 <kdean06> And I thought that is what the ASU was.
Jun 24 20:17:16 <kdean06> That the Qtopia apps would be adapted to fit into the framework and THAT merger would be the "final product".
Jun 24 20:17:37 <XorA|gone> ASU was supposed to be a quick hack to get a working phone
Jun 24 20:17:41 <kdean06> So everything I've said about the ASU "Having promise" has been based on that assumption... Perhaps i Need to revisit.
Jun 24 20:18:01 <kdean06> XorA|gone, Thus far the better 2007.02 images have beaten it out. :P
Jun 24 20:18:17 <XorA|gone> kdean06: my experience too, it cant even make phone calls
Jun 24 20:18:37 <kdean06> No calls on either device, and no working media player.
Jun 24 20:19:07 <XorA|gone> kdean06: you cant make calls either?
Jun 24 20:19:17 <wurp2> kdean06: Which are the main 2 things I use the device for :-)
Jun 24 20:19:38 <kdean06> I haven't tried, honestly. I listen to podcasts 2 hours a day, 6 days a week, so if I can't do that, I don't carry the device around.
Jun 24 20:20:14 <kdean06> Currently, I'm running Qtopia on the GTA01 as my "primary phone" and have been testing images of all sorts to see if there's improvmeent
Jun 24 20:20:27 <CVirus> kdean06: battery ?
Jun 24 20:20:29 <kdean06> And IMO, the ONLY changes Iv'e really seein in the asu is renaming Diversity to Splinter.
Jun 24 20:20:38 <CVirus> hehe
Jun 24 20:20:52 <kdean06> Since a broken app breaking in a different place isn't that spectacular.
Jun 24 20:20:52 <erko> wurp2, I was able to receive a call in suspend a little while ago using zhone.
Jun 24 20:21:04 <kdean06> zhone is working. :)
Jun 24 20:21:09 <CVirus> zhone ?
Jun 24 20:21:13 <kdean06> Yes.
Jun 24 20:21:21 * XorA|gone beleives zhone is the way forward
Jun 24 20:21:23 <kdean06> The FSO, or the Milestone releases.
Jun 24 20:21:28 <CVirus> what is FSO ?
Jun 24 20:21:46 <wurp2> erko: Hooray!  mmc and suspend/resume on call both!
Jun 24 20:21:57 <wurp2> CVirus: the freesmartphone.org release, aka zhone
Jun 24 20:21:57 <CVirus> huh ?
Jun 24 20:21:57 <kdean06> http://www.vanille-media.de/images/zhone-0.0.0.png
Jun 24 20:21:58 <CVirus> really ?
Jun 24 20:22:01 <erko> wurp2: woohoo :)
Jun 24 20:22:52 <wurp2> CVirus: yep, milestone Xs are releases of fso, which is aka zhone
Jun 24 20:22:54 <kdean06> Okay, if Zhone is NOT going to be merged with ASU, then I need to really re-evaluate things... Cause according to the Zhone roadmap, it'll be usable long before the ASU. :P
Jun 24 20:23:24 <josch> this is how you define usable
Jun 24 20:23:26 <CVirus> Who is working on Zhone ?
Jun 24 20:23:29 <wurp2> kdean06: On that screenshot, does any app work except the phone?
Jun 24 20:23:34 <josch> the framework is mostly about the dbus daemons
Jun 24 20:23:37 <kdean06> No.
Jun 24 20:23:46 <wurp2> k, just checking ;-)
Jun 24 20:23:52 <kdean06> wurp2, The others say "Feature not implimented" or similar.
Jun 24 20:24:00 <kdean06> Clicking them do things, but nothing worth noting. :P
Jun 24 20:24:04 <josch> contacts will be added in milestone2
Jun 24 20:24:09 <josch> sms in milestone3
Jun 24 20:24:16 <kdean06> And soem "advanced" telephony things. :)
Jun 24 20:24:37 <hfsplus> um I am mildly confused here
Jun 24 20:24:48 <wurp2> hfsplus: join the club
Jun 24 20:24:51 <hfsplus> the FreeRunner will in fact make calls/do sms/ when it is released for sale, yes?
Jun 24 20:25:02 <wurp2> hfsplus: If you run the right sw stack on it, yes
Jun 24 20:25:04 <CVirus> Who is working on Zhone ?
Jun 24 20:25:06 <josch> another thing to know:
Jun 24 20:25:08 <wurp2> e.g. Qtopia
Jun 24 20:25:11 <CVirus> and what the hell is FSO ?
Jun 24 20:25:18 <josch> things like sms already work in the framework
Jun 24 20:25:20 <wurp2> CVirus: dammit, fso = zhone
Jun 24 20:25:23 <CVirus> ah ok
Jun 24 20:25:26 <josch> but there is no implementation in zhone
Jun 24 20:25:27 <wurp2> CVirus: mickeyl & company are working on it
Jun 24 20:25:28 <kdean06> wurp2, As far as I know, Qtopia itself won't run on Freerunner without issues.
Jun 24 20:25:33 <hfsplus> okay... cause I dont want to buy a phone I cant make calls on
Jun 24 20:25:35 <mmontour> hfsplus: so they say, but it's using yet another software stack (the GTK-basd 2007.2)
Jun 24 20:25:35 <josch> fso != zhone
Jun 24 20:25:37 <wurp2> kdean06: agh
Jun 24 20:25:39 <josch> zhone is only the app
Jun 24 20:25:42 <kdean06> At least, I've not seen a usable Qtpia image for Freerunner.
Jun 24 20:25:51 <wurp2> josch: thx for the correction
Jun 24 20:26:01 <lpotter> qtopia runs fine on freerunner
Jun 24 20:26:10 <kdean06> lpotter, Oh? 
Jun 24 20:26:12 <wurp2> zhone is the only app the user interacts with now in fso, though, afaik
Jun 24 20:26:13 * cyrilRomain believe fso to be the first basic-phone-working image, but that ASU is better for PIM apps (I may be wrong though)
Jun 24 20:26:26 <josch> wurp2, correct
Jun 24 20:26:29 <kdean06> How do I get/build a Qtopia image from Freerunner?
Jun 24 20:26:36 <josch> but interaction with the framework is farely easy
Jun 24 20:26:44 <josch> just a bunch of dbus calls
Jun 24 20:26:55 <josch> have a look at the zhone source for reference
Jun 24 20:27:04 <wurp2> josch: Is there a known way to get fso to kick off an app?
Jun 24 20:27:15 <wurp2> e.g. can I hook into one of the existing "not yet implemented" buttons?
Jun 24 20:27:23 <josch> oh of course
Jun 24 20:27:28 <josch> have a look at pyhone
Jun 24 20:27:28 <mudyc> that's the way it should be. d-bus under the hood and what ever gui user wants on top of it
Jun 24 20:28:03 <zedstar> is FSO a officially funded development project by Openmoko inc or a spinoff community driven project with unpaid man hours?
Jun 24 20:28:05 <wurp2> josch: You say "oh, of course", but that's not at all easy to do in e.g. underground
Jun 24 20:28:22 <josch> http://neo1973-germany.de/wiki/pyPhone
Jun 24 20:28:26 <mjr> zedstar, apparently yes
Jun 24 20:28:26 <josch> this is pyphone
Jun 24 20:28:34 <josch> an app i wrote in january or so
Jun 24 20:28:42 <josch> mickeyl took it and expanded it
Jun 24 20:28:45 <josch> now it is zhone
Jun 24 20:29:07 <zedstar> and mickely plus others are being paid to work on it now?
Jun 24 20:31:08 <lpotter> kdean06: you'll have to wait
Jun 24 20:32:18 <josch> wurp2, if you have questions concering zhone
Jun 24 20:32:29 <josch> ask these people mentioned in the python source
Jun 24 20:32:32 <josch> here: http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=zhone.git;a=blob;f=src/zhone;hb=HEAD
Jun 24 20:32:44 <wurp2> josch: OK, thanks
Jun 24 20:33:19 <josch> zedstar, they are
Jun 24 20:33:27 <josch> only i am not :D
Jun 24 20:33:33 <CIA-45> openmoko: 03werner * r4498 10/developers/werner/bin/mdflt: 
Jun 24 20:33:33 <CIA-45> openmoko: Header:<EOL> appears in real life and is RFC822-compliant, so we better
Jun 24 20:33:33 <CIA-45> openmoko:  support it.
Jun 24 20:34:13 <zedstar> josch ask for some money for your part of code ;)
Jun 24 20:34:35 <josch> hahaha
Jun 24 20:35:13 <kdean06> lpotter, Why's that?
Jun 24 20:35:31 <josch> zedstar, the fame of bing mentioned in the source is rly enough for me - i could not wish for more :)
Jun 24 20:37:47 <zedstar> josch :)
Jun 24 20:38:21 <lpotter> we found 3rd party files in qtopia source that were missing copyright statements, so they removed the sources until they get fixedf up
Jun 24 20:39:22 <lpotter> as well as binaries
Jun 24 20:41:43 <mjr> wonder how long the entier source will have to be conveniently spirited away because of some files
Jun 24 20:42:49 <lpotter> me too
Jun 24 20:42:58 <lpotter>  2 more weeks I think
Jun 24 20:43:03 <kdean06> That's fair enough, I suppose.
Jun 24 20:43:17 <lpotter> it was a lawyer thing
Jun 24 20:43:40 <XorA|gone> kill all lawyers
Jun 24 20:43:49 <XorA|gone> save a whole lot of hassle and money in the long run
Jun 24 20:44:57 <mjr> well, that would get rid of some good guys as well
Jun 24 20:45:08 <mjr> though, them being good guys, they undoubtedly would recognize the greater good
Jun 24 20:48:04 <mmu_man> plop
Jun 24 20:49:04 <spydon> plop
Jun 24 20:50:24 <mmu_man> I'm checking checking binutils to port Haiku to arm...
Jun 24 20:50:42 <mmu_man> there are a lot of arm variants in binutils/ld/configure.tgt
Jun 24 20:50:59 <mmu_man> actually the first case switch has twice the arm* cases !?
Jun 24 20:53:21 <mmu_man> there are cases with arm*-* arm9e-* arm*b- thumb- strongarm- xscale- ...
Jun 24 20:54:25 <mmu_man> what's the target used for openmoko ?
Jun 24 21:07:10 <zash> mmu_man: check the wiki
Jun 24 21:07:31 <zash> mmu_man: probably some hardware-page
Jun 24 21:08:00 <mmu_man> This GDB was configured as "--host=i686-linux --target=arm-linux"...
Jun 24 21:08:12 <mmu_man> I suppose using arm-haiku would be enough
Jun 24 21:09:14 <mmu_man> will see
Jun 24 21:09:26 <erko> possibly armv4t? 
Jun 24 21:12:18 <zash> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware says Core: ARM920T
Jun 24 21:12:29 <zash> Instruction Set: ARMv4
Jun 24 21:14:33 <mmu_man> I suppose gcc has -m options to secify exact cpu type using multilib like on m68k
Jun 24 21:42:27 <fargle> hi. I'm coding up a UI using EFL evas/ecore. Looking for starter on gadgets. Any pointers?
Jun 24 21:53:41 <kdubois> what carrier in the U.S. will the openmoko freerunner work with?
Jun 24 21:53:57 <SpeedEvil> Any GSM carrier at all.
Jun 24 21:54:02 <SpeedEvil> (with the US version)
Jun 24 21:56:21 <kdubois> ah, cool. thanks SpeedEvil
Jun 24 21:56:25 <mjr> the two large ones being t-mobile and at&t
Jun 24 21:56:35 <mjr> and then various smaller ones, I hear
Jun 24 21:57:08 <Qwell> all the smaller ones are just MVNOs for the most part anyways
Jun 24 21:58:43 <mjr> probably
Jun 24 21:59:28 <mjr> (I dunno)
Jun 24 22:01:25 <kdubois> yeah, the big ones are definitely at&t and t-mobile (they own the networks)
Jun 24 22:01:47 <kdubois> and then theres some antitrust law (afaik) that lets the little guys get in on the action too
Jun 24 22:27:38 <lloyd_fedora> hello all
Jun 24 22:28:51 <lloyd_fedora> does anyone have any updates as to when the freerunner ships ??
Jun 24 22:29:10 <wurp2> The guess is the first week of July
Jun 24 22:29:10 <kdean06> Not since the last time someone asked. :P
Jun 24 22:29:23 <SpeedEvil> Freerunner ships have not yet been announced.
Jun 24 22:29:39 <SpeedEvil> They are widely expected to be biremes though.
Jun 24 22:29:56 <kdean06> SpeedEvil, Has something changed? 
Jun 24 22:29:59 <wurp2> lloyd_fedora: You can keep up to date by checking http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates
Jun 24 22:30:18 <lloyd_fedora> lol .. kdead
Jun 24 22:30:38 <kdean06> Steve speculated that it would be the 4th of July, which isn't an exact date, but it's probably the most firm answer ever given by them.
Jun 24 22:30:40 <lloyd_fedora> wurp2: last update there was om the 15th
Jun 24 22:30:48 <wurp2> SpeedEvil: wtf is a bireme?  Besides a ship w/ 2 rows of oars?
Jun 24 22:30:59 <wurp2> lloyd_fedora: that's the last update
Jun 24 22:31:06 <SpeedEvil> wurp2: that's what I was meaning.
Jun 24 22:31:09 <lloyd_fedora> "-(
Jun 24 22:31:15 <wurp2> ah
Jun 24 22:31:21 <SpeedEvil> Sorry.
Jun 24 22:32:12 <wurp2> Heh, it's OK.  Everyone does one of those at least occasionally
Jun 24 22:32:16 <wurp2> ttg, have a good night
Jun 24 22:36:13 <lloyd_fedora> brb
Jun 24 23:46:47 <CVirus> http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2008/06/nokia_takes_ini.html
Jun 24 23:48:02 <SpeedEvil> ...
Jun 24 23:48:05 <SpeedEvil> Interesting.
Jun 24 23:48:34 <SpeedEvil> (nokia opensources sybian)
Jun 24 23:48:39 * SpeedEvil sighs.
Jun 24 23:48:44 <SpeedEvil> (nokia opensources symbian)
Jun 24 23:49:35 <SpeedEvil> Doesn't say anything about the license.
Jun 24 23:49:41 <CVirus> no
Jun 24 23:52:03 <SpeedEvil> Random question. Someones asking about ada on OE - anyone done ADA stuff?
Jun 24 23:53:56 <nibbler> any hind what he's trying to use it for?
Jun 24 23:54:15 <SpeedEvil> Just 'stuff'
Jun 24 23:54:17 <nibbler> ada is usually used in application where extreme reliability is demanded
Jun 24 23:54:25 <SpeedEvil> Yeah.
Jun 24 23:54:37 <SpeedEvil> I was idly wondering.
Jun 24 23:54:57 <SpeedEvil> At one time I considered learning ADA.
Jun 24 23:55:03 <SpeedEvil> Then I bought a book, and looked inside it, which cured that.
Jun 24 23:55:10 <nibbler> nothing against OM - but... i wouldn't want it as a crucial part for... an airplane orso :)
Jun 24 23:56:02 <nibbler> then again... for a drone...
Jun 24 23:56:04 <SpeedEvil> It's got a GPS.
Jun 24 23:56:18 <SpeedEvil> You could put USB servos on it, and you've got it done.
Jun 24 23:56:24 <nibbler> and the fr got gyros.
Jun 24 23:56:25 <SpeedEvil> Freerunner even has accelerometers in.
Jun 24 23:56:33 <SpeedEvil> Not gyros :(
Jun 24 23:56:35 <nibbler> (not the greek food)
Jun 24 23:56:42 <CVirus> http://blogs.msdn.com/mikehall/archive/2006/06/29/651213.aspx
Jun 24 23:56:48 <nibbler> ah - yeah - wrong term
Jun 24 23:56:56 <SpeedEvil> Gyros are annoyingly large and expensive.
Jun 24 23:56:58 <nibbler> gyro!=accelerometer
Jun 24 23:57:01 <nibbler> in deed
Jun 24 23:57:30 <SpeedEvil> $10+++/axis vs $1ish
Jun 24 23:58:08 <nibbler> yeah
Jun 25 00:01:40 <tessier_> Why on earth would you ever need extreme reliability in a cell phone? 
Jun 25 00:01:46 <tessier_> Talk about building your castle on sand!
Jun 25 00:02:08 <nibbler> yeah - my point exactly
Jun 25 00:02:14 <tessier_> "my life-critical application crashed because I dropped my phone in the crapper and a dozen people died. :("
Jun 25 00:02:27 <nibbler> then again for non-critical stuff like drones it ould be really neat
Jun 25 00:02:39 <nibbler> you kow that at least your app works correctly
Jun 25 00:02:51 <nibbler> so it has to be the hardware you are tinkering with
Jun 25 00:03:09 <nibbler> elliminates one potentially faulty component
Jun 25 00:05:45 <CVirus> that's why people shall use windows instead of linux in planes
Jun 25 00:06:10 <nibbler> people shall code their own realtime os for planes
Jun 25 00:06:24 <CVirus> that's the case I'm sure
Jun 25 00:06:27 <nibbler> it's not like the development would be significant in comparison to the rest of the task
Jun 25 00:06:47 <nibbler> it isn't for all the systems however
Jun 25 00:06:51 <CVirus> I think they use linux + real-time patches
Jun 25 00:10:27 <SpeedEvil> nibbler: pop over to #paprika
Jun 25 00:10:32 <SpeedEvil> Err
Jun 25 00:10:36 <SpeedEvil> #papparazi
Jun 25 00:10:42 <SpeedEvil> Or however it's spelled
Jun 25 00:11:04 <kdubois> anyone use at&t with the openmoko phone?
Jun 25 00:12:07 <CVirus> you can't use openmoko with anything but at&t ... you have to get a 5 years contract with at&t :p-p
Jun 25 00:12:10 <CVirus> :-p*
Jun 25 00:12:12 <CVirus> whatever
Jun 25 00:14:27 <SpeedEvil> Seriously.
Jun 25 00:14:36 <CVirus> noway
Jun 25 00:14:38 <SpeedEvil> You can use freerunner (US) with any GSM network
Jun 25 00:14:47 <CVirus> kdubois: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_compatible_cellphone_providers
Jun 25 00:16:47 <kdubois> like they have two data services, one they claim is for flip phones, and one they claim is for smartphones. what one will i need to have for the openmoko phone?
Jun 25 00:18:20 <nibbler> what's the difference between the tariffs?
Jun 25 00:18:29 <kdubois> CVirus: its a two year contract :)
Jun 25 00:18:35 <nibbler> besides that they just fit in certain shapes of handsets.
Jun 25 00:19:42 <nibbler> perhaps you can fold the flip phone service and slide it carefully between the battery pack and the phone...
Jun 25 00:20:17 <kdubois> nibbler: i have no idea how or why the differntiation is made
Jun 25 00:20:26 <kdubois> its just what the sales rep explained to me
Jun 25 00:23:51 <nibbler> but srsly - i guess the smartphone one has real ip (as real as you will get it on packet switched mobile networks) and the "flip phone" one has fewer volume included and is meant to be used with a wap-gw or http proxy
Jun 25 00:24:02 <nibbler> but that's just a mildly educated guess
Jun 25 00:24:35 <kdubois> hmm, its a better guess than i have :D
Jun 25 00:25:24 <nibbler> still a guess tho :)
Jun 25 00:25:53 <nibbler> don't they have the text of the actual contract on their page?
Jun 25 00:26:01 <nibbler> it should be in the fine print
Jun 25 00:27:09 <nibbler> somewhere in-between all the things they are not liable for which you never wanted to know that well anyway
Jun 25 00:27:37 <kdubois> heh, yeah
Jun 25 00:27:49 <kdubois> i'm sure theres some way to get it to work with the cheaper plan
Jun 25 00:28:01 <kdubois> but data access isnt a necessity in my book anyway
Jun 25 00:28:30 * nibbler has nothing more than distilled pure hate for mobile network operators and their behaviour during the last few years
Jun 25 00:28:41 <kdubois> you and me both
Jun 25 00:29:05 <nibbler> not with wifi. - but i got quite accustom to it over the years
Jun 25 00:29:21 <nibbler> however i don't know how well the coverage is in your corner
Jun 25 00:29:27 <nibbler> - of the world
Jun 25 00:29:57 <kdubois> as far as i know, its alright enough
Jun 25 00:31:15 <kdubois> now i've just got to wait for the release...
Jun 25 00:31:27 <kdubois> is that on the order of weeks? months?
Jun 25 00:35:57 <nibbler> weeks
Jun 25 00:49:49 <wurp2> Is anyone running fso?
Jun 25 02:14:27 <rtm> Could someone tell me what FSO is?
Jun 25 02:21:00 <wurp2> freesmartphone.org release
Jun 25 02:21:14 <wurp2> aka zhone, but zhone is really just the only end-user app that's in fso now
Jun 25 02:21:47 <rtm> Thanks.   Is it completely separate from the ASU?
Jun 25 02:22:08 <wurp2> now, and probably for a long while, yes
Jun 25 02:22:38 <wurp2> eventually I think it will be the architecture for OM
Jun 25 02:22:58 <rtm> So, ASU will eventually be discarded too?
Jun 25 02:23:05 <wurp2> I have no idea
Jun 25 02:23:16 <wurp2> I think a lot of stuff the ASU does will be discarded
Jun 25 02:23:21 <wurp2> but a lot will be kept
Jun 25 02:23:49 <wurp2> I don't think the plan going into the future is to use the qtopia dialer in OM, and I think that's what ASU does
Jun 25 02:24:17 <wurp2> I personally think the ASU is a big fuck up
Jun 25 02:25:18 <wurp2> but the asu adds in several other gui toolkits, and lets you run Qtopia apps mixed with OM ones, so some good came from it
Jun 25 02:25:44 <rtm> Yes, I guess the Qtopia on X11 was good.
Jun 25 02:27:35 <rtm> Does the FSO follow the D-Bus based software model?
Jun 25 02:28:30 <wurp2> rtm: Yeah, that's the whole goal
Jun 25 02:28:42 <wurp2> To build the dbus based model and a "bread-n-butter" app to show it off
Jun 25 02:28:54 <wurp2> I'm running it on my gta01 right now
Jun 25 02:29:09 <rtm> Well, that sounds like progress then.
Jun 25 02:29:13 <wurp2> But what I'm seeing isn't very user friendly, and appears slightly busted, to boot
Jun 25 02:29:33 <wurp2> I know some people have been running versions that seem to at least work for them
Jun 25 02:29:43 <wurp2> I like the fso model a lot
Jun 25 02:30:02 <wurp2> not least because there's actually a model, instead of just people coding like hell
Jun 25 02:30:16 <raster> asu is "interesting"
Jun 25 02:30:16 <rtm> Well, I can make calls fairly reliably with the old GTK stuff on my '01 - it's just that suspend/resume will probably never work.
Jun 25 02:31:14 <rtm> I was mistaken then.   I had thought the ASU was a step in the D-Bus direction, but I guess not.
Jun 25 02:31:16 <wurp2> mwester has a kernel that's supposed to make suspend/resume work
Jun 25 02:31:24 <wurp2> I thought so too
Jun 25 02:32:04 <wurp2> initially
Jun 25 02:33:11 <rtm> Well, thanks again for the info.    It's good to see the D-Bus stuff is coming along.
Jun 25 02:33:59 <wurp2> you're welcome.  From what I hear, at least a couple of people have zhone releases that give them stable phones for multiple days, with suspend & resume on incoming call
Jun 25 02:34:19 <wurp2> So it sounds as if it's coming along nicely.  Now if only I can find the images they're using :-)
Jun 25 02:42:13 <linuxxr> Participate in the Android Developer Challenge, which will give away $10 million to developers who build apps on the platform.
Jun 25 02:42:19 <linuxxr> wow
Jun 25 02:42:30 <SpeedEvil> ...
Jun 25 02:42:34 <linuxxr> they gonna buy dev's
Jun 25 02:42:55 <rtm> Each developer gets 10 million?
Jun 25 02:43:00 * SpeedEvil is in!
Jun 25 02:43:06 <linuxxr> i dont know
Jun 25 02:43:08 <linuxxr>  no
Jun 25 02:43:14 <rtm> Rats
Jun 25 02:43:20 <SpeedEvil> Aww.
Jun 25 02:43:28 <rtm> Cheap bastards.
Jun 25 02:43:37 <linuxxr> t
Jun 25 02:43:47 <linuxxr> y thats wat it sayr though
Jun 25 02:44:18 <linuxxr> u guys just stay put
Jun 25 02:44:23 <rtm> Andriod developer challenge may attract those Battle Bit guys.
Jun 25 02:44:35 <rtm> oops Battle Bot
Jun 25 02:46:01 <linuxxr> need to dev a newer network    open source style
Jun 25 02:54:17 <mwester-trip> wurp2: I tend to agree about ASU; I think the point-haired bosses thought it was something that could just be "whipped up" in a month, so they could sell GTA02's...  and it's turned into really quite a mess.  (Not to detract from the efforts of those doing the work; rather a commentary on the sorry state of the code they were given, and the irrational expectations of whomever made that decision).
Jun 25 02:55:31 * mwester-trip will write an android application for 1/10 of that; 1 million is a lot of money.
Jun 25 02:56:23 <rtm> DOn't start a race to the bottom.   Hold out for the full 10 meg.
Jun 25 02:56:40 <mwester-trip> hehe! :)
Jun 25 02:58:16 <mwester-trip> Re: suspend/resume and fso -- it looks pretty good, but it still needs to be integrated (it can be better than it is, I think -- especially on the GTA01).  I plan on working on that when I get some time (my employer has been annoying me by making me do work-related activities while at work - how odd ;) )
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jun 25 02:59:57 2008