**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 02 02:59:56 2008 Jul 02 03:01:22 I'm curious about something on the OpenMoko Licensing wiki page - http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/License - specifically, the Foreign Software page Jul 02 03:01:30 "This means that all our code will be copyright by openmoko" Jul 02 03:01:46 are contributors required to assign copyright to openmoko for their contributions? Jul 02 03:02:24 Foreign Software section, not page. Jul 02 03:04:08 'if we' Jul 02 03:04:12 not you Jul 02 03:05:05 Fair enough, just making sure I understood. Jul 02 03:05:26 As I understand it anyway. Jul 02 03:05:40 So, contributors are not required to assign copyright for their changes? Jul 02 03:05:50 Not as far as I know. Jul 02 03:05:52 or sign any license agreement to contribute? Jul 02 03:05:55 ok. thanks for the info. Jul 02 03:05:55 Nope. Jul 02 03:10:36 wurp2: I'm in milwaukke, how about you? Jul 02 03:10:48 kk = k Jul 02 03:32:47 weird, I don't seem to have a dbus-launch on my system Jul 02 05:22:39 hi all. how much does the debug board cost? Jul 02 05:24:10 $99 IIRC Jul 02 05:27:50 hm. i'm just trying to find it ion the site, thanks or replying :) Jul 02 05:30:31 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rc81cfde435c7 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcdates.inc: update efl to latest to get etk drag+hold changes etc. Jul 02 05:30:32 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rf835ce44bade 10/conf/distro/include/ (sane-srcdates.inc sane-srcrevs.inc): update efl and illume dates/rev to update to gsm "no signal" mode and Jul 02 05:30:32 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r22ff92a342cf 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: up to illume rev with any_mod for bindings. Jul 02 05:30:33 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r40e68b86743a 10/ (5 files in 5 dirs): Merge branch 'org.openmoko.asu.dev' of git+ssh://git@git.openmoko.org/var/cache/git/openmoko into org.openmoko.asu.dev Jul 02 06:30:41 morning Jul 02 06:32:06 'Morning :-) Jul 02 07:11:29 good morning Jul 02 07:11:49 Morning. Jul 02 07:11:57 Hmmmpf, make fso-image doesn't seem to build an image.. Jul 02 07:23:54 when freerunner came to store , how long will delivery takes in us ? Jul 02 07:25:14 Delivery will take never time Jul 02 07:26:55 Sonicadvance: so , the day i pay with credit card i receive the phone ? Jul 02 07:27:24 no, the other end of never time Jul 02 07:27:30 it will forever be lost in transit Jul 02 07:27:56 Sonicadvance: ha-ha-ha Jul 02 07:30:35 did you try make updte-makefile? Jul 02 07:30:59 s/updte-makefile/update-makefile Jul 02 07:31:21 Yep Jul 02 07:31:31 but I'll retry just in case Jul 02 07:32:36 someone here from spain? Jul 02 07:38:48 methril: well : make update-makefile setup fso-image Jul 02 07:38:50 Aaaand Jul 02 07:38:53 Still nothing in images. Jul 02 07:39:01 Is the image located elsewhere ? Jul 02 07:39:08 Because that's where flash.sh looks for it Jul 02 07:39:10 but it's compiling? Jul 02 07:39:23 Yep, but compiling what and where, I don't know. Jul 02 07:39:35 did you have the openembedded/packages/images/fso-image.bb file? Jul 02 07:39:44 Yep Jul 02 07:41:10 E Jul 02 07:41:13 Oups :-) Jul 02 07:41:22 they are located in build/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/om-gta0{1|2} Jul 02 07:43:21 methril: so I just have to copy them ? Jul 02 07:43:56 yes Jul 02 07:44:09 u-boot file, uimage, and fso-image ? Jul 02 07:44:52 it depends of what do you prefer so flash :) Jul 02 07:44:59 it's for what device? Jul 02 07:45:20 hmmm when I try to make flash-qemu-local it tries to check openmoko-devel-image.bb Jul 02 07:45:23 GTA02 Jul 02 07:45:29 I'm fairly new to the qemu thing so I'm kind of lost Jul 02 07:46:04 for qemu it makes an image and u-boot working properly for qemu Jul 02 07:46:49 Errr... still don't know what I'm supposed to flash :-p Jul 02 07:47:14 usally uimage + rootds Jul 02 07:47:19 *rootfs Jul 02 07:49:33 Oh, nice error at boot Jul 02 07:49:38 can't find libjpeg Jul 02 07:50:13 It booted but in console only :-/ Jul 02 07:50:32 And I don't know at all what I did wrong Jul 02 07:50:59 (I modified the makefile for flash-qemu-local replacing openmoko-devel-image with fso-image...) Jul 02 07:53:26 It seems it can't find libs.. Jul 02 07:59:41 Ainulindale,. find the relevant .ipkg and install it Jul 02 08:00:06 good morning Jul 02 08:00:42 I want to try the openmoko software stack; what is the easiest way for me to try this? Jul 02 08:01:13 I understand there is a qemu addition to emulate openmoko's, is that the easiest way? Jul 02 08:03:23 Wander_w right, it is Jul 02 08:03:46 ok good Jul 02 08:04:04 is it somewhat useable? Jul 02 08:04:17 'morning Jul 02 08:04:33 Wander_w yes, i find it even more stable than the android emulator Jul 02 08:04:50 kristian-m: ok, great, thanks a lot Jul 02 08:04:57 * Wander_w runs of to find it Jul 02 08:04:58 Wander_w have fun Jul 02 08:07:42 sounds incredibly easy to do: type in three lines, get some coffee and your done :D Jul 02 08:09:03 diego_at_work: I suppose so, but how ? :-) Jul 02 08:10:34 find the .ipk copy on the image, and install it ^^ Jul 02 08:12:36 diego_at_work: within qemu, with the booted image ? Jul 02 08:13:31 I truly hate to be a pain :-) Jul 02 08:14:37 It seems I have a fs problem too Jul 02 08:14:59 some file being truncated... Jul 02 08:15:55 And I can't login with ssh Jul 02 08:16:05 Or type in the emulator Jul 02 08:26:16 I suppose there's a different git branch for FSO ? Jul 02 08:34:25 Hmppppf. Can't understand why it won't find these libs. And I can't type in the emulator or ssh to it :-/ Jul 02 08:37:34 hmm... the openmoko makefile seems to only use one CPU... how do I change it to use both my cores? Jul 02 08:39:17 Wander_w: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Mokomakefile Jul 02 08:39:24 Wander_w: add something like this to local.conf BB_NUMBER_THREADS = "3" Jul 02 08:39:54 XorA: Hey there :-) Jul 02 08:40:03 Can you help me a little bit ? :-) Jul 02 08:40:13 Ainulindale: I can try Jul 02 08:40:19 * hfswork demands the OpenMoko store open. ;) Jul 02 08:40:24 same Jul 02 08:40:27 XorA: As I said before Jul 02 08:40:28 I wish to throw money at you! TAKE IT! Jul 02 08:40:30 ;) Jul 02 08:40:34 First, I don't know the specific git branch for FSO Jul 02 08:40:46 Ainulindale: org.openembedded.dev Jul 02 08:40:49 Ainulindale, XorA: Thanks, but I don't have a local.conf, can I just create a new one? Jul 02 08:41:01 Wander_w: build/local.conf I think Jul 02 08:41:11 Secondly, when I build the supposedly fso-image, it fails while booting telling me there's missing libraries Jul 02 08:41:14 Ainulindale: yeah, don't have that one yet Jul 02 08:41:30 And I can't log into qemu or by ssh Jul 02 08:41:36 (as usb doesn't come up) Jul 02 08:41:37 Ainulindale: see what I said yesterday about fso-image being unstable between milestones Jul 02 08:42:00 Ainulindale: also git.openmoko.org is out of date as regards to org.openembedded.dev branch Jul 02 08:42:01 Yep, I saw that, but it's not even booting, I thought it was more a problem with my configuration Jul 02 08:44:53 Weird Jul 02 08:45:03 Current branch org.openembedded.dev is up to date. Jul 02 08:48:36 So what do I do when I want to submit patches for OpenMoko? Jul 02 08:51:05 You try to do the same thing I do : trying to understand how to make it work :-) Jul 02 08:51:31 And if I did make it work and want to share it? Jul 02 08:52:18 You edit the wiki article :-) Jul 02 08:52:38 (I was talking about building the image, for my part) Jul 02 08:52:48 (I think it's a good first step in order to be able to submit any modification ;-) ) Jul 02 08:54:56 woot, it's booting! :) Jul 02 08:57:06 Ainulindale: you have to build fso image from an upto date org.openembedded.dev, which git.openmoko.org cannot give you Jul 02 08:58:05 So know openmoko is running, but it says just "No Network" and I can't do anything else Jul 02 08:59:48 XorA: I supposed so, but as you didn't say it I was trying to convince myself it wasn't the case Jul 02 09:00:16 XorA: so what am I supposed to use as a git site ? Jul 02 09:00:40 Because I suppose it's possible to use mokomakefile to build a bleeding edge FSO Jul 02 09:00:44 (Am I mistaken ?) Jul 02 09:10:16 g' morning Jul 02 09:11:32 mornin Jul 02 09:22:23 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r4d4cc6e622d9 10/packages/openmoko-projects/assassin_svn.bb: [Assassin] Add curl to assassin's depends. Jul 02 09:22:24 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r18e466d9a39d 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [splinter] Bump up the reversion of splinter to 449 Jul 02 09:25:07 * ScaredyCat wanders over to the water cooler and pushes it over Jul 02 09:31:34 Well, nobody knows how to be up to date with FSO using mokomakefile ? Jul 02 09:31:59 It's been only three days I've been trying to build this, after all :-p Jul 02 09:32:26 Ainulindale: I think the answer is you cant Jul 02 09:33:13 Ok, makes it a lot easier :-) (or not) Jul 02 09:33:24 So if I want to build a FSO image from scratch, how should I do ? Jul 02 09:33:52 get a copy of OE Jul 02 09:34:24 I supposed so, but do you have an URL with all the information I need in order to do that ? Jul 02 09:34:31 http://wiki.openembedded.net/index.php/Main_Page Jul 02 09:35:26 It seems I misunderstood something though Jul 02 09:35:33 I thought OE was part of FSO/ASU/OM Jul 02 09:35:35 * ScaredyCat blames XorA Jul 02 09:35:49 OE is a build system meta data Jul 02 09:35:56 OM is based on OE Jul 02 09:36:13 FSU/ASU...... are all part of the meta data Jul 02 09:36:27 FSO as a community project chose to use OE upstream Jul 02 09:36:53 And so, in order to build FSO, I have to first build OE, then build FSO, am I right ? Jul 02 09:37:17 no, you need to setup OE, then build FSO Jul 02 09:37:22 no, Jul 02 09:37:50 I think I'm going to be mad soon enough :-p Jul 02 09:38:08 The part I didn't get, and I feel stupid about asking about that, is how to build FSO. Jul 02 09:38:34 when OE is setup, bitbake fso-image Jul 02 09:39:57 edit your Mokomakefile. Put: OE_GIT_SITE:= git://git.openembedded.net/ OE_GIT_BRANCH := org.openembedded.dev Jul 02 09:40:14 and then, in setup-openembedded Jul 02 09:40:40 chamge OM_GIT for OE_GIT Jul 02 09:41:14 i have tried to run os using Qemu and it works! i've got the interface but it does not look like functional Jul 02 09:41:19 (by the way it's a real pleasure to see competent people answering your questions :-) ) Jul 02 09:41:29 no buttom works , etc , and it same "No Network" , any idea/doc on this ? Jul 02 09:43:50 methril: Ah. Looked too easy, but won't work :-) Jul 02 09:44:00 well, the git clone -n git://${OM_GIT_SITE}/git/openmoko.git openembedded line, change it for git clone -n git://${OE_GIT_SITE}/openembedded.dev openembedded Jul 02 09:44:05 why not? Jul 02 09:44:14 You solved the problem :-) Jul 02 09:44:27 you are putting the openembedded repo :D Jul 02 09:44:51 I don't know at all OE, and what to do in order to get it, so the clone command was failing and I didn't have a clue on what to get :-) Jul 02 09:46:33 check it :D Jul 02 09:46:38 fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly Jul 02 09:46:38 fetch-pack from 'git://git.openembedded.net/openembedded.dev' failed. Jul 02 09:46:41 Sic' :-/ Jul 02 09:46:49 git://git.openembedded.net/org.openembedded.dev Jul 02 09:47:01 How do you know that, guys, out of curiosity ? Jul 02 09:47:10 * XorA is an OE developer Jul 02 09:47:14 Because as I saw it, there's no documentation available on the subject in order to start Jul 02 09:48:11 i'm leraning OE Jul 02 09:48:18 XorA is a master :D Jul 02 09:48:58 I'm surprised it's not that easier to setup (as a developing environment) Jul 02 09:49:26 I do hope I'm not a brainwashed developer and it doesn't seem easy to get into developing for OM Jul 02 09:50:02 <`pwgen`> Look at http://oe.linuxtogo.org/wiki/GettingStarted and get familar with OE , that helps a lot Jul 02 09:50:23 Woooh, the wiki looks weird Jul 02 09:50:34 looks as if the tags are not interpreted Jul 02 09:51:27 better http://wiki.openembedded.net/index.php/Getting_Started Jul 02 09:51:39 <`pwgen`> this is the new site :) Jul 02 09:52:09 I think I will try first with mokomakefile, then read that after lunch Jul 02 09:52:29 Is FSO repository on OE or OM git ? Jul 02 09:52:55 freesmartphone.org Jul 02 09:52:58 i think Jul 02 09:53:21 Arf. Jul 02 09:53:33 I feel as in a maze Jul 02 09:53:37 By the way, methril Jul 02 09:53:40 methril: fatal: git checkout: updating paths is incompatible with switching branches/forcing Jul 02 09:53:54 Did I mention I never used git either ? :-) Jul 02 09:54:11 do you have a folder with openembedded name? mv it or remove it Jul 02 09:54:18 Already done Jul 02 09:54:21 Twice in fact Jul 02 09:54:23 <`pwgen`> its what i get if i hack openembedded Gettingstarted in google :P Jul 02 09:57:57 <`pwgen`> i think if you acutally build now the fso image , it won't run Jul 02 09:58:48 Why ? Jul 02 09:59:02 <`pwgen`> problems in dbus/kernel/udev/touchscreen/ and so on (:-(( Jul 02 09:59:24 hmmm Jul 02 09:59:41 are you dev in FSO? Jul 02 09:59:55 So if, say, a lambda developer wants to begin to develop using FSO Jul 02 09:59:57 What should he do ? Jul 02 10:00:23 And by he I mean me, and by begin to develop I mean stop screwing with my hair trying to picture what to do :-) Jul 02 10:00:41 <`pwgen`> correction ist will be possible to get some runnin fso image ... ( mine is running from sd ) Jul 02 10:00:57 telco? what does taht means? Jul 02 10:01:06 * mickey|telco runs off to a phone conference Jul 02 10:01:15 uh! nice Jul 02 10:01:18 "nice" Jul 02 10:01:19 ;) Jul 02 10:01:32 <`pwgen`> correction / partly ..(:-(( Jul 02 10:01:33 you are allways involved in interesting work :) Jul 02 10:02:00 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: i had to remove the touchscreen testing par and add some udev rule .. Jul 02 10:02:34 Ainulindale: how to start working on it depends on what you want to do. Doing an own UI on top or improving FSO backend or frontend itself? Jul 02 10:03:01 Ainulindale> mickey is the FSO master Jul 02 10:03:15 mickey|telco: I want to start with a simple problem, as in implementing some kind of contact transfer over bluetooth Jul 02 10:03:30 (As I will need that) Jul 02 10:03:32 heh Jul 02 10:03:34 not so simple Jul 02 10:03:44 since there is no PIM API yet and no BT integration Jul 02 10:03:48 but sounds like a good job to start with Jul 02 10:04:05 a) have a look at latest bluez dbus API Jul 02 10:04:14 b) read contact from SIM Jul 02 10:04:20 c) integrate obex file transfer Jul 02 10:04:35 d) write GUI to handle that Jul 02 10:04:41 I looked at the python script to import contacts from SIM Jul 02 10:04:51 But it didn't tell me where to start in order to have a developing environment Jul 02 10:04:59 That's my main problem right now :-) Jul 02 10:05:10 ah Jul 02 10:05:15 development environment is easy with FSO Jul 02 10:05:22 just ssh into the device Jul 02 10:05:26 and edit your scripts Jul 02 10:05:30 then rerun :) Jul 02 10:06:06 Yep but I don't have a device working under FSO Jul 02 10:06:15 I did manage to build an OM environment with mokomakefile Jul 02 10:06:22 But that's all Jul 02 10:06:53 "No network" on Qemu emulation , any idea ? Jul 02 10:07:33 ah. without the device it's more complicated. you can either go host-based development or try to run the stuff in qemu Jul 02 10:07:50 if you have BT and GSM on your host, it's probably much easier to develop there Jul 02 10:07:52 I'll have the device soon enough, but right now I was trying to build the image for qemu Jul 02 10:08:10 And all I managed to do is build a healthy stack of errors Jul 02 10:08:45 ah. hmm, no idea about mokomakefile, but why not pastebin some of the errors or write them to the mailing list. Jul 02 10:08:55 perhaps we can sort it out Jul 02 10:09:07 I don't know at all if they are relevant Jul 02 10:09:22 As I don't know at all if I did manage to build FSO or something else Jul 02 10:09:29 oh Jul 02 10:09:47 I'm trying to follow the howto on the OE wiki to build OE right now Jul 02 10:09:54 But I've got a problem with monotone now... Jul 02 10:09:57 So I'm kind of stuck Jul 02 10:10:04 too bad, which kind of problem? Jul 02 10:10:35 the OE.mtn file has an outdated format Jul 02 10:10:39 (or so says mtn) Jul 02 10:10:44 It proposes to mtn migrate Jul 02 10:10:53 And when I try to do that it tells me it can't find the workspace Jul 02 10:10:58 Never used mtn either :-/ Jul 02 10:11:14 interesting. i guess you should checkout a copy of the branch before calling mtn migrate Jul 02 10:11:21 try mtn checkout --branch=org.openembedded.dev Jul 02 10:11:37 hmmm Jul 02 10:11:42 I followed the howto to the letter Jul 02 10:11:46 i don't know why you need to migrate though. was there no oe-database-snapshot for your mtn version available? Jul 02 10:11:52 why not use openembedded git repo? Jul 02 10:11:58 * Ainulindale dies Jul 02 10:12:03 I don't know ! :-) Jul 02 10:12:10 I simply tried to follow the gettingstarted article :-) Jul 02 10:12:17 for me it's faster than mtn Jul 02 10:12:42 And as I don't have the slightest idea on how to use git to obtain OE, same thing for me :-) Jul 02 10:12:56 What I need is a nice page with a "howto OE for dummies" in fact :-) Jul 02 10:13:17 methril: using mtn checkout => wrong use, no database specified Jul 02 10:13:26 well Jul 02 10:13:30 you need to add some parameters Jul 02 10:13:33 telco starts Jul 02 10:13:42 see you Jul 02 10:13:51 Yep but the database won't work as it tells me it's outdated :-) Jul 02 10:14:03 And if I try to migrate it, it won't, complaining about workspace Jul 02 10:14:24 So as I said before, not knowing either OE or mtn, I'm pretty lost :-) Jul 02 10:14:39 set the PATH and BBPATH env variables Jul 02 10:14:52 Is that relevant for mtn ? Jul 02 10:14:56 yes Jul 02 10:15:11 well it's ffor bitbake Jul 02 10:15:40 mtn --db=//OE.mtn pull monotone.openembedded.org org.openembedded.dev Jul 02 10:16:10 it's that configured properly? Jul 02 10:16:24 mtn: utilisation erronée : la disposition de la base de données /home/ainu/oe/stuff/OE.mtn est faite selon un vieux schéma Jul 02 10:16:31 In french, just to say : schema is outdated Jul 02 10:16:43 Then "try mtn migrate to upgrade" Jul 02 10:17:39 Well lunch time Jul 02 10:17:51 I'll come back later to see what I can do Jul 02 10:17:54 But thanks anyway Jul 02 10:18:22 you are wellcom Jul 02 10:18:25 e Jul 02 10:50:07 anyone around Jul 02 10:50:59 someone Jul 02 10:52:28 Looks like about 327 people around Jul 02 10:52:48 heh Jul 02 10:53:11 Spain GroupSalers around? Jul 02 10:53:18 i was just wondering if anyone knows how the gsm wakeup debugging is going Jul 02 10:53:51 in what image/framework? Jul 02 10:54:02 just in general Jul 02 10:54:33 if its looking like it will be months more or if its close to being fixed Jul 02 10:54:58 just pondering when to get gta02 Jul 02 10:55:53 unless i can use it as my everyday phone i wont be able to get motivated to code for it :( Jul 02 10:58:35 Psi: that's a catch22 situation... ;) Jul 02 11:00:21 yeah Jul 02 11:03:51 i do the oppisite: i code as long until the neo is my everyday phone ;) Jul 02 11:04:07 good thinking Jul 02 11:04:39 emdete: what kind of coder are you, kernel/app etc? Jul 02 11:05:17 Psi: daemon&gui... i use u-boot, kernel and build system as it comes Jul 02 11:08:13 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07zhone * r55b6aa59fd3b 10/src/zhone: catch up with renaming ophoned into ogsmd Jul 02 11:15:24 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r38049653b59a 10/ (75 files in 24 dirs): ophoned: rename subsystem into ogsmd. See ChangeLog for reasoning. Jul 02 11:35:59 Does anyone here know how to get git working with a http proxy? Jul 02 11:36:35 or how to bounce it of an outside linux SSH server? Jul 02 11:37:16 hi @ all Jul 02 11:37:21 Hi bastian Jul 02 11:37:36 i got my freerunner today Jul 02 11:37:43 now i'm happy :-) Jul 02 11:37:50 congratulations Jul 02 11:37:56 thx Jul 02 11:37:57 how's it like? Jul 02 11:38:03 now i have a litle question Jul 02 11:38:04 (does it work?) Jul 02 11:38:17 where can i get the actual releases? Jul 02 11:38:31 yes, no problems yet Jul 02 11:38:50 i have already flashed the kernel and rootfs Jul 02 11:39:00 hurrary Jul 02 11:39:23 but i think the image i used was the same, which already was on it :-) Jul 02 11:39:30 "No problems yet" -> Great! time to make some :) Jul 02 11:39:43 now i'm looking for more up to date once Jul 02 11:40:03 Bastian1: I think you'd have to compile your own if you want to do that Jul 02 11:40:18 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Mokomakefile#Building_Openmoko_with_MokoMakefile Jul 02 11:40:24 (I hope you have linux) Jul 02 11:40:57 thx Jul 02 11:41:31 you can do it in linux in vmware just fine, too Jul 02 11:42:24 i hope, it works Jul 02 11:42:32 yup, if you don't have linux yet, a virtual linux is very smart Jul 02 11:42:36 i had little problems with qemu Jul 02 11:42:48 it didn't run with my version of gcc Jul 02 11:42:57 i had to downgrade it Jul 02 11:42:58 you don't need qemu; you have the real thing :) Jul 02 11:43:10 that did a little harm to my system :-) Jul 02 11:43:15 lol Jul 02 11:43:32 can't you install both versions? Jul 02 11:43:33 happily i got everything right :-) Jul 02 11:43:37 no Jul 02 11:43:41 and switch between them? Jul 02 11:43:56 Bastian1: why not, what distro are you running? Jul 02 11:43:58 puh, that isn't right, you can. but i can't :-) Jul 02 11:44:16 opensuse 10.1 Jul 02 11:44:23 oh Jul 02 11:44:28 nevermind then Jul 02 11:44:32 or 10.3? im not sure Jul 02 11:44:58 just "Suse" is enough for me to know that I don't know :) Jul 02 11:45:56 hehe :) Jul 02 11:46:02 which do you use? Jul 02 11:46:22 (k)ubuntu Jul 02 11:46:40 and there's a debian server in here as well Jul 02 11:46:48 ah, i did try, but im more used to suse Jul 02 11:46:57 great Jul 02 11:47:02 to each his own Jul 02 11:47:11 suse is fine if you know when to use yast and when not :) Jul 02 11:47:59 debian (and deratives) are great if you want to use apt Jul 02 11:48:11 (there's no reason not to use apt) Jul 02 11:48:18 yes, that is a problem with suse Jul 02 11:48:38 sorry for the question, but what is git? Jul 02 11:48:58 linus' own version control system Jul 02 11:49:16 k, then i have wo install it Jul 02 11:49:20 to Jul 02 11:49:29 he didn't like subversion, cvs, bazaar, bitkeeper or any of the other version control systems, so he wrote his own Jul 02 11:49:41 in a week or so Jul 02 11:49:42 ... Jul 02 11:49:46 hehe Jul 02 11:49:48 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rc0faecdee4f7 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [srcrev/exposure] Upgrade exposure to have the xdg changes Jul 02 11:49:48 I envy him.. Jul 02 11:49:51 freak... :) Jul 02 11:50:01 yeah Jul 02 11:51:02 it's rather impressive in that it's incredibly fast Jul 02 11:51:27 and that there is no central repository Jul 02 11:51:46 where is the data stored? Jul 02 11:52:04 each developer has his own "master version" Jul 02 11:52:22 interresting idea Jul 02 11:52:29 yes Jul 02 11:52:44 ..but not a new one I must add Jul 02 11:52:55 linus just made it fast enough to use Jul 02 11:53:06 ahh, now "make setup" seems to work Jul 02 11:53:22 make babies Jul 02 11:53:45 therefor i would need a girlfriend :-) Jul 02 11:54:05 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r07a47af6a239 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcdates.inc: update efl to latest to get etk drag+hold changes etc. Jul 02 11:54:06 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r45cb45888f4f 10/conf/distro/include/ (sane-srcdates.inc sane-srcrevs.inc): update efl and illume dates/rev to update to gsm "no signal" mode and Jul 02 11:54:06 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * ra2ea13321a3b 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: up to illume rev with any_mod for bindings. Jul 02 11:54:08 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r6a0229366efa 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [splinter] Bump up the reversion of splinter to 449 Jul 02 11:54:10 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rb3c154c31b99 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [srcrev/exposure] Upgrade exposure to have the xdg changes Jul 02 11:54:38 whats this? Jul 02 11:54:46 a bot? Jul 02 11:54:51 apparently :) Jul 02 11:54:55 yes a bot that lists checkins Jul 02 11:55:12 ah, now i understand Jul 02 11:55:21 very practical Jul 02 11:55:45 a flooding bot Jul 02 11:55:45 so i guess, that raster is back from lunch Jul 02 11:56:10 * xming kicks CIA-46 Jul 02 11:56:10 ow Jul 02 11:56:15 hihi Jul 02 11:56:30 lol Jul 02 11:56:53 * Wander_w hangs CIA-46 upside down from a cliff Jul 02 11:57:22 not even a response to such an obvious torture? bah... stupid bot Jul 02 11:57:33 Well. Where was I. mtn migrate doesn't work. Jul 02 12:04:49 check this: http://wiki.openembedded.net/index.php/OEandYourDistro Jul 02 12:05:45 methril: (I managed to make mtn work without the spanshot) Jul 02 12:05:48 s/span/snap/ Jul 02 12:05:50 Ainulindale meant: methril: (I managed to make mtn work without the snapshot) Jul 02 12:06:02 But there's a lot to download Jul 02 12:06:28 s/some/random string Jul 02 12:06:38 weird bots here Jul 02 12:07:46 there goes the proxy.. :( Jul 02 12:07:47 it's a sintax bot Jul 02 12:09:16 Well methril now that I've got a db, I think I will disturb you a lot with what's next :-) Jul 02 12:09:50 bitbake Jul 02 12:09:52 :) Jul 02 12:10:02 you have one with openmoko Jul 02 12:10:22 and its back Jul 02 12:11:42 again Jul 02 12:11:51 ~curse someone Jul 02 12:11:52 May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, someone ! Jul 02 12:11:53 where can I read about how neod is configured ? Jul 02 12:12:41 I don't like the fact that the phone can get locked while I'm talking on it Jul 02 12:13:13 another little question: what is texi2html? Jul 02 12:13:28 It transforms a tex file in HTML Jul 02 12:13:36 "Generate" is more correct Jul 02 12:14:04 hmm, can i use latex2html instead, or is it the same? Jul 02 12:14:14 tex != latex Jul 02 12:14:21 k, sry Jul 02 12:14:33 then i have to look for rpms :( Jul 02 12:14:47 Or install a real distro :-p Jul 02 12:14:54 pfft Jul 02 12:15:07 never touch a running system :) Jul 02 12:15:12 ;-) Jul 02 12:15:12 Bastian1: google and friends say that texi2html can actually use latex2html Jul 02 12:16:51 hmm... where are the config files for neod, anyway ? Jul 02 12:18:47 and how can I get the list of files in an installed .opk package ? Jul 02 12:18:59 I mean something like dpkg -L Jul 02 12:21:43 polz: I suppose it's in a db in /var ? Jul 02 12:23:20 Ainulindale: and what would be the proper way to query that db ? Jul 02 12:23:31 * polz has already found the neod config file Jul 02 12:23:46 it's in $HOME/.gconf/... Jul 02 12:24:20 polz: I don't know :-) Jul 02 12:25:18 methril: Hmmm, I have the mtn db file, but no workspace, right now... Jul 02 12:26:01 Ok, I answered myself Jul 02 12:26:27 ARM chips have their own super-power backing in the form of Qualcomm, whose Snapdragon processor is coming out later this year. It will apparently provide comparable processing power with Intel's Atom, while consuming even less power. <-- hmm sounds usable Jul 02 12:26:36 i was going to tell you taht it's in .gconf polz :) Jul 02 12:27:05 ruskie, give us a url :) Jul 02 12:27:17 X86 needs to die anyway... definitely don't want it in my mobile Jul 02 12:27:17 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/02/internet_devices_os/ Jul 02 12:27:31 lunch time Jul 02 12:29:39 OK, next question: how do I set the time before neod goes into suspend... Jul 02 12:30:17 and how do I get it to not lock the screen before going into suspend ? Jul 02 12:36:17 morning all Jul 02 12:36:37 does any one exprienced connection of neo to SIP protocol ? Jul 02 12:36:55 In principle, you could, I don't know anyone has. Jul 02 12:37:03 You can't do SIP over GPRS. Jul 02 12:37:07 Only wifi or USB Jul 02 12:37:16 Or bluetooth of course Jul 02 12:37:44 SpeedEvil: so its possible over WIFI ? i mean , is there any software to do it right now ? Jul 02 12:38:04 As far as I know - no. Jul 02 12:40:03 SpeedEvil: ohum ... its pure software function isnt it ? i mean , i can go and buy and there will be sip software someday ... ? Jul 02 12:40:30 Zoup: should be Jul 02 12:41:03 Yes. Jul 02 12:41:11 As with much stuff. Jul 02 12:41:13 However. Jul 02 12:41:46 Expecting X to be available in a week or two is probably silly. Jul 02 12:41:58 Unless you happen to get lucky. And some stuff will never materialise. Jul 02 12:42:18 very true Jul 02 12:42:29 If you absolutely must have it the most reliable thing is to contribute the code yourself :) Jul 02 12:42:40 (where X is a poorly chosen name - as X is actually on it.) Jul 02 12:42:45 lol Jul 02 12:44:46 There are SIP applications available for Linux allready, you might try to compile those for openmoko Jul 02 12:44:57 methril|lunch: And hopla ! bitbake fso-image Jul 02 12:45:05 probably needs a bit of GUI tweaking though Jul 02 12:55:54 Ainulindale, what do fso mean Jul 02 12:56:38 Free Suffering for the Others ? Jul 02 12:56:40 I don't know :-) Jul 02 12:56:52 It's the new framework initiative Jul 02 12:57:09 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenmokoFramework Jul 02 12:57:18 or what Jul 02 12:57:23 FreeSoftware.Org Jul 02 12:57:37 FreeSmartphone.Org I think Jul 02 12:57:39 FlyingSpaghettiOrator? Jul 02 12:57:48 Ainulindale: that's what I meant :P Jul 02 12:57:58 SpeedEvil: The only flying spaghetti thing I know is the flying spaghetti monster Jul 02 12:58:13 Hallowed be his name. Jul 02 12:58:27 :-) Jul 02 13:03:29 hi all, whats cooking Jul 02 13:03:46 Spaghetti... Jul 02 13:04:09 mmmmm....Spagheettttiiii Jul 02 13:04:29 Or would cooking spaghetti be considered blasphemy? Jul 02 13:05:37 unless its fso Jul 02 13:05:47 It depends on whether you are dressed as a pirate while cooking or not Jul 02 13:06:10 http://www.venganza.org/ <= the religion manifesto Jul 02 13:06:16 (I loooove the banner) Jul 02 13:06:35 Ainulindale, now http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FSO shuld explain it :-= Jul 02 13:06:59 Haha :-) Jul 02 13:07:09 I plan to do an introduction on how to build FSO later Jul 02 13:07:24 As I'm mainly trying to cope up with the fact that the documentation is inexistent Jul 02 13:07:40 i look forward to that (especially when i get my phone :-) Jul 02 13:09:13 Grmbl.. so this compagny sends a fortune on "enterprise" hardware and it's even less stable than my cheap-ass home-build stuff Jul 02 13:10:24 hmm.. wander_w is still here.. Jul 02 13:23:09 does anyone know if there is geohashing (from xkcd) on the phone? Jul 02 13:25:36 or MokoMeet as it is now called :-) Jul 02 13:25:57 so someone has written it? Jul 02 13:26:22 no idea just giving it a fancy name Jul 02 13:27:22 Here we are Jul 02 13:27:26 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FSO Jul 02 13:28:12 Ainulindale: thanks :) Jul 02 13:28:46 what in the FSO build still uses CVS for version control? Jul 02 13:29:59 hi there Jul 02 13:30:36 nuclear_eclipse: Don't know :-) Jul 02 13:30:44 oh, lol Jul 02 13:30:46 I did that as a pure newbie to the system Jul 02 13:30:51 someone ordered the freerunner on pulster? Jul 02 13:31:02 I just put down what I did and where to get what from where Jul 02 13:31:21 Because it didn't seem obvious to me that we had to do this or that in order to build fso Jul 02 13:31:31 I just wish I had a Freerunner to try this on :P Jul 02 13:32:16 hi all some advice to get a USB/RS232 converter? Jul 02 13:36:22 Nope :-) Jul 02 13:36:39 methril: would you give me your opinion on the FSO page and the "howto build FSO" ? Jul 02 13:36:42 Did I get it right ? Jul 02 13:36:49 (I mainly copied OE's wiki but...) Jul 02 13:37:16 but... Jul 02 13:37:51 openmoko: 03zecke 07rsync-version * r51d76f16c7b8 10/ (10414 files in 345 dirs): Qtopia rsync of july 2nd 2008. The first available snapshot after license cleanups Jul 02 13:39:14 methril: it was a rhetoric but Jul 02 13:39:43 i'm going to check the build Jul 02 13:40:56 i have the OE repo in openembedded dir Jul 02 13:41:32 and if i try make fso-image with mokomkefile, it starts Jul 02 13:41:55 Yep but first it is necessary to get the OE repo Jul 02 13:42:01 Which is not necessarily easy :-) Jul 02 13:42:10 i have a little problem again Jul 02 13:42:16 i can't find makeinfo Jul 02 13:42:29 ah! the repo Jul 02 13:42:30 the mokomakefile needs it Jul 02 13:42:48 i'm using git repo, but it's the same Jul 02 13:42:56 can someone help me? Jul 02 13:42:58 did you get the MTN database? Jul 02 13:43:06 methril: yep Jul 02 13:43:10 bastian_: sorry, nope :-) Jul 02 13:43:12 do you have automake installed bastia_ ? Jul 02 13:43:27 hmm, good question, i check it Jul 02 13:43:47 it's not automake Jul 02 13:44:28 and you initialized it correctly ? i remember your last error Jul 02 13:44:40 it's because they changed the database format Jul 02 13:45:13 bastian_ it's in texinfo package Jul 02 13:45:21 thx Jul 02 13:46:49 it works, thx Jul 02 13:47:09 now i hope my image is build Jul 02 13:47:14 you are wellcome Jul 02 13:47:28 to what? Jul 02 13:47:47 to your thx :) Jul 02 13:47:56 ah :) Jul 02 13:58:38 openmoko: 03zecke * r58a217eb1d05 10/src/server/phone/callscreen/themed/callscreen.cpp: Revert "[theme] Update the two items in one go as well" Jul 02 13:58:38 openmoko: 03zecke * r11885f5012fc 10/devices/ficgta01/src/plugins/phonevendors/ficgta01/ (vendor_ficgta01.cpp vendor_ficgta01_p.h): [ficgta01] Disable all CBMs on startup and provide a dummy CellBroadcast service (untested) Jul 02 13:58:39 openmoko: 03zecke * rbfbab57fa3a9 10/devices/ficgta01/src/plugins/phonevendors/ficgta01/vendor_ficgta01_p.h: [ficgta01] Cleanup the header file. Remove that part... Jul 02 13:58:41 openmoko: 03zecke * r352abc2e9bfa 10/src/server/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [callscreen] The current themed view usage is busted Jul 02 13:58:44 openmoko: 03zecke * r9ce4e6f8b36f 10/etc/themes/finxi/ (3 files): [callscreen] For the different views we will use different files Jul 02 13:58:47 openmoko: 03zecke * r99f7b5e7f61a 10/etc/themes/finxi/ (3 files): [callscreen] Remove the unrelated items from the theme files Jul 02 14:00:07 mickey|away: You're not away :-) Jul 02 14:00:26 mickey|away: you edited the wiki :-p Jul 02 14:00:32 hehehe Jul 02 14:00:55 show me your state :) Jul 02 14:00:55 *nod* |away not necessarily means I'm physically away. It often means I'm simply incommunicado for IRC ;) Jul 02 14:01:08 read: busy :) Jul 02 14:01:27 mickey speaks something like spanish? Jul 02 14:01:38 unfortunately not Jul 02 14:01:39 why don't you change your nick to mickey|busy? Jul 02 14:01:59 heh, i tried taht Jul 02 14:01:59 people tend to disrespect busy Jul 02 14:01:59 methril: my state ? Jul 02 14:01:59 hehe Jul 02 14:02:04 your fso-image building state Jul 02 14:02:06 hehehe Jul 02 14:02:26 mickey|away: when you'll have time, please tell me if the FSO page I wrote is useful and synthetic enough Jul 02 14:02:29 Yeah, but now you spoiled the magic of away. We won't believe it anymore ;) Jul 02 14:02:30 methril: still building Jul 02 14:02:35 ok Jul 02 14:02:57 AVee: ;) Jul 02 14:03:01 Ainulindale: i love it. thanks Jul 02 14:06:19 when i arrive at home i'd like to put the git repo :) Jul 02 14:06:27 I hope it will help people like me bothering everyone here in order to be able to toy with the fso image Jul 02 14:06:48 It amazes me how inexplicit it is Jul 02 14:07:12 It's as if we where looking to Slackware documentation Jul 02 14:07:16 s/where/were/ Jul 02 14:07:17 Ainulindale meant: It's as if we were looking to Slackware documentation Jul 02 14:07:30 hahaha i remember my slackware days Jul 02 14:07:34 some time ago Jul 02 14:08:10 NOTE: Running task 208 of 3836 Jul 02 14:08:19 :-/ Jul 02 14:08:48 it's slow Jul 02 14:09:09 how many cores you put in the build/conf/local.conf? Jul 02 14:09:32 4 Jul 02 14:09:37 PARALLEL_MAKE = "-j 4" Jul 02 14:10:40 uf!! it's faster than mine Jul 02 14:11:02 faster ? Don't know Jul 02 14:11:11 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4800+ Jul 02 14:11:18 (says /proc/cpuinfo) Jul 02 14:11:45 Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU 6400 @ 2.13GHz Jul 02 14:11:52 faster :) Jul 02 14:12:07 and at home it's the same @2.33 Jul 02 14:12:18 methril: grep -i mips /proc/cpuinfo ? Jul 02 14:12:27 (just curious) Jul 02 14:12:31 bogomips : 4259.46 Jul 02 14:12:31 bogomips : 4256.00 Jul 02 14:12:41 are u trying to say that slackware documentation is incomplete? Jul 02 14:12:45 (please note the bogo) Jul 02 14:12:45 My mips are bigger than yours ! :-p Jul 02 14:12:55 hehehe Jul 02 14:13:56 The slackware documentation is complete for small quantities of complete Jul 02 14:14:39 Hahaha :-) Jul 02 14:18:50 Does anyone know how to use git with a proxy? Jul 02 14:27:10 i don't kwno Jul 02 14:27:30 you can use git clone http:// (i think that this could work with a proxy) Jul 02 14:28:19 and i'm really away :) Jul 02 14:29:53 methril|away: A great, I'll try that Jul 02 14:33:23 it doesn't work (the git-over-http) it complains: Jul 02 14:33:32 Cannot get remote repository information. Jul 02 14:33:32 Perhaps git-update-server-info needs to be run there? Jul 02 14:39:22 YES!! my FreeRunner is shipped today Jul 02 14:39:40 to me? Jul 02 14:39:56 sorry but No Jul 02 14:39:59 :( Jul 02 14:40:02 mine has arrived this morning :) Jul 02 14:40:16 you lucky bastian_ Jul 02 14:40:25 yes, am i Jul 02 14:40:36 im gonna tipex out neo1973 on mine and write freerunner and sell it on ebay Jul 02 14:40:42 lol Jul 02 14:40:45 like christmas and birthday together Jul 02 14:40:52 lol Jul 02 14:42:06 <`pwgen`> : if your fso-image-buid is ready please would you check if your /etc/dbus/session.conf consists following line "unix:tmpdir=/tmp" Jul 02 14:43:17 <`pwgen`> or only unix:/tmp ... you need the "tmpdir" entry to get dbus-session running Jul 02 14:43:40 * ScaredyCat hugs his neo 1973 Jul 02 14:46:54 * mjr got his 3G usb stick and it works. The provider also sent me another guy's SIM card though... Jul 02 14:47:04 I need another case for the neo. Jul 02 14:47:10 I want to play with adding wifi. Jul 02 14:48:43 mjr, remember to call exstensivly to Nigeria on his simcard :-) Jul 02 14:51:25 Hello all Jul 02 14:52:42 Does someone know if the Logitech diNovo Mini is already supported for the Neo Freerunner? Jul 02 14:53:26 Blalien, should work since it's a bluetooth human interface device Jul 02 14:53:39 at least the keyboard bit, not sure about the mouse Jul 02 14:54:07 (it can certainly be made to work, just not sure if it's a point and click job) Jul 02 14:54:50 Thanks mjr, do you alson know if the Sandisk Micro SDHC 8GB Ultra is supported? Because I can't find anything about this card. Except for the part that they don't have one to try it out with. Jul 02 14:57:45 All 8G SDHC cards should work Jul 02 14:58:23 hi. my freerunner arrived today. but im stuck with tangogps. gllin seems to be only available for GTA01. anyone knows what is really needed on GTA2? Jul 02 14:58:31 I thought so, thanks. Now to get the NEO Freerunner, but that will take a while.. Jul 02 14:58:34 you don't need gllin Jul 02 14:58:46 you setup gpsd to read from /dev/ttySAC1 IIRC Jul 02 14:58:49 Or maybe 2 Jul 02 14:58:57 and turn ont he GPS first Jul 02 14:59:06 ok, i'll have a look Jul 02 14:59:10 engadget got an article saying freerunner shipping july 7 Jul 02 14:59:13 gps is turned on :) Jul 02 14:59:18 Blalien: It's just bluez - as with any other. Jul 02 14:59:24 Blalien: It's just bluez - as with any other linux box Jul 02 15:01:09 Yeah that's true SpeedEvil. But Christoph at Pulster also misunderstood me. So I'm still waiting for a reaction back. Jul 02 15:01:40 what's the battery lifetime with current software that is shipped with the freerunner Jul 02 15:09:36 @Pjj i guess 4-5 hours Jul 02 15:10:22 i didn't load it totally, but it has run out of energy half an hour ago Jul 02 15:12:16 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * rd26c837efe12 10/odeviced/src/plugins/input/input.vala: input: stop the watch after the first activity[D Jul 02 15:13:36 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r5b90f705484b 10/odeviced/src/plugins/rtc/rtc-helpers.c: Fix SetCurrentTime Jul 02 15:13:40 @bastian_, That's not very much. But that's on full power? Jul 02 15:13:51 i switched GPS on by powerbutton. i ran gpsd -n /tmp/nmeaNP. i set the device in /etc/default/gpsd to ttySAC1 and 2, but tangogps shows nothing. cat /tmp/nmeaNP shows nothing... ideas anyone? :) Jul 02 15:14:10 nmeaNP is irrelevant Jul 02 15:14:18 cat /dev/ttySAC1 Jul 02 15:14:24 Or 2 - I forget. Jul 02 15:14:32 and you should get NMEA strings Jul 02 15:14:35 man Jul 02 15:14:49 i'm not sure, but i think, the image, which is shipped on the freerunner doesn't really support suspend Jul 02 15:14:58 That look like $GPGGA,1,2,3,,4,,,$ Jul 02 15:15:01 or something Jul 02 15:15:06 Basheri: it doesn't Jul 02 15:15:11 i have to say, that i startet it often and played around a lot Jul 02 15:15:31 ah! cat /dev/ttySAC1shows... hmmm data :) Jul 02 15:16:23 The charging could be vastly improved :| Jul 02 15:16:23 u can just telnet to gpsd and enter p to get your coordinates if u have a fix as well Jul 02 15:16:36 for example, $GPGGA,065852.00,5613.022527,N,00306.725890,W,1,05,0.5,158.0,M,0.277000,M,-0.0100515,*7A is a valid position. Jul 02 15:16:53 56 degrees, 13 minutes north, ... Jul 02 15:17:05 @bastian_ Well I will just have to wait for the battery time Jul 02 15:18:30 looks good: Jul 02 15:18:34 yes, but i got the freerunner this morning, so i couldn't test a lot Jul 02 15:18:45 GPSD,P=? Jul 02 15:18:51 no fix yet i guess Jul 02 15:18:58 with another kernel einstein got more than 24 hours Jul 02 15:19:09 yeh no fix if ? Jul 02 15:19:27 u can enter something like r to get the nmea to sphew Jul 02 15:19:30 no fixed gps signal... Jul 02 15:21:10 btw how can i type slash and backslash on that keyboard o_O Jul 02 15:21:13 Yeah. You need to wait a while. Jul 02 15:21:17 ta: Jul 02 15:21:21 te_acrid: Get a bt kbd :-( Jul 02 15:21:44 It outputs lots of very short sentances before it gets a lock. Jul 02 15:21:50 te_acrid: There might be / and \ buried in the multitap kbd somewhere... I assume that's what you're seeing? Jul 02 15:21:50 hmmm... shipped with terminal and no slashes possible... thats weird Jul 02 15:22:08 te_acrid: There used to be sw kbds that supported slashes Jul 02 15:22:15 yes its multitab. but no secrets found yet Jul 02 15:22:27 maybe ssh in and use a proper keyboard ;) Jul 02 15:22:32 te_acrid: But I agree that it's weird that they settled at least for now on one that doesn's support it Jul 02 15:22:36 s/weird/stupid/ Jul 02 15:22:36 wurp2|away meant: te_acrid: But I agree that it's stupid that they settled at least for now on one that doesn's support it Jul 02 15:22:55 zedstar_: If you can ssh in, why do you need a term program on the device? Jul 02 15:23:12 zedstar_: Rather, if you're _expected_ to ssh in, what _use_ is a term program on the device Jul 02 15:23:31 wurp2 i mean for testing gpsd Jul 02 15:23:38 actually just telnet to it from another machine Jul 02 15:23:55 zedstar_: Oh, yeah, agreed, except that you prolly want to be outside to get a fix quickly :-( Jul 02 15:24:22 Of course, w/ wireless, I guess you could leave your $400 device sitting outside... Jul 02 15:24:46 wurp lol yeh Jul 02 15:24:50 te_acrid: Anyway, you can try to do the steps on Switching_Keyboards Jul 02 15:25:22 I dunno if they're any good on the latest images Jul 02 15:25:29 once i get a fix on the neo it isnt too bad and can go inside Jul 02 15:25:36 Or rather, the latest package repos Jul 02 15:25:53 zedstar_: I can actually get a fix in my house with my gta01 Jul 02 15:25:56 i need a term program if i want to leave the building and check via telnet if gpsd is getting a fix Jul 02 15:26:14 te_acrid: Yeah, Switching_Keyboards may fix you up Jul 02 15:26:27 ok. will try that later Jul 02 15:26:31 $GPTXT,01,01,01,NMEA unknown msg*58 Jul 02 15:26:36 Or it may remove your multitap kbd and leave you needing to reimage if the repositories are currently fubar Jul 02 15:26:40 wurp not bad the gps in the neo.....the n810 is far less sensitive Jul 02 15:27:17 zedstar_: Yeah, the freerunner uses a GL hammerhead chip... that's a pretty good one Jul 02 15:27:17 I wanna get a gps antenna so I can get quicker fixes in the car Jul 02 15:27:19 who needs a keyboard if ssh is possbile ;) Jul 02 15:27:51 TeNoVi: just cat /dev/tty... Jul 02 15:27:54 but is this "unknown msg" ok? maybe i need to pass some options Jul 02 15:28:00 te_acrid: and watch it on the terminal Jul 02 15:28:09 te_acrid: it's a venfor specific message Jul 02 15:28:17 te_acrid: it goes away when you get a fix Jul 02 15:28:40 ah ok. so i need to leave the building i guess :) Jul 02 15:29:03 look out for the big burning ball in the sky! you might get burned Jul 02 15:30:20 Have there been any reports from new FR owners about the time to first fix when outside? Jul 02 15:30:37 I know there used to be an issue, and I've heard rumors that it's still a problem Jul 02 15:31:19 i would love to see a side by side fix comparions with the neo Jul 02 15:31:59 I'm interested also in if it makes a difference if wifi & bt are on or off Jul 02 15:32:50 a working gps using gypsy is about the only thing im interested in over my neo Jul 02 15:34:43 Does bitbake outputs everything in the build directory while in the do_install process ? Jul 02 15:35:55 The neo - at least my example - sucks in terms of accuracy. Jul 02 15:36:19 It occasionally doessn't react to corners and just carries on for 80-100m Jul 02 15:39:57 SpeedEvil: Are you looking at the raw nmea data? Jul 02 15:40:17 * SpeedEvil wonders if he's got that jpeg. Jul 02 15:40:27 It's not due to poor sat coverage Jul 02 15:40:39 I do see it extrapolate from my past motion when it's slow getting a fix - I thought it was the map app doing it Jul 02 15:40:57 I have played a little bit with an app I wrote to guide you back to a set point Jul 02 15:41:21 And I had what looked like big accuracy issues, but I wrote it off as a bug in my code until I've looked into it more Jul 02 15:41:45 http://www.mauve.plus.com/josm.png Jul 02 15:42:07 pink is the neo GPS Jul 02 15:42:16 wurp2: where did you do these experiments? (near big, metal buildings perhaps?) Jul 02 15:42:18 white is another GPS at the same time in a poorer position. Jul 02 15:42:42 This is in a single-story housing estate with no big trees, all houses set well back from the road. Jul 02 15:43:03 Wander_w: In a supermarket parking lot (> 20 meters from building) & in my front yard Jul 02 15:43:10 Look at the horrible loops in the pink track. Jul 02 15:43:18 versus the nice sharp corners in the white one. Jul 02 15:44:09 SpeedEvil: How do you mean, in a poorer position? Jul 02 15:44:43 Jammed just under the top of the windscreen. obscured by a metal lip. Jul 02 15:44:51 Ah Jul 02 15:44:59 Versus on the dashboard under a clear windscreen. Jul 02 15:45:05 Yeah, the neo's looking pretty sucky in that pic :-( Jul 02 15:45:39 and what about the purple track? Jul 02 15:45:56 I think that's what SpeedEvil calls pink Jul 02 15:46:15 SpeedEvil: are you colourblind? Jul 02 15:46:20 I dunno what to call it, both sounds good to me Jul 02 15:46:36 s/sounds/sound/ Jul 02 15:46:37 qtopia snapshots are back on trolltech's ftp Jul 02 15:46:37 wurp2 meant: I dunno what to call it, both sound good to me Jul 02 15:46:44 cekay: Woohoo!! Jul 02 15:46:48 Qt4? Jul 02 15:47:02 only the 4.3.2snapshot source Jul 02 15:47:13 at this time Jul 02 15:48:18 isnt it possible to get a quicker gps-fix with downloading sat-positions from the internet (did that with a WM device...) Jul 02 15:49:25 on the topic of gps anyone seen this http://www.blueskypositioning.com/products.htm wtf is an in-sim antenna? Jul 02 15:50:08 hah! Jul 02 15:52:37 te_acrid yeh there is apparently an assistance server that requires a login to download from Jul 02 15:53:39 assistence data from mio: http://service.mio-tech.com/eeservice/packedephemeris.ee Jul 02 15:54:01 that's what I use for my TomTom Jul 02 15:54:51 thats a binary... i dont think its executable from the FR :) Jul 02 15:55:18 if u search the ML they mention the assistance server and what u need to access it Jul 02 15:55:29 it's not an executable, its the data for assisted GPS Jul 02 15:56:23 zedstar: basically extreme sensitivity and a lot of praying :) Jul 02 15:56:38 wurp2: it looks pink on my screen. Jul 02 15:57:10 A hot pink admittedly. Jul 02 15:57:13 Not the pastel sort. Jul 02 15:59:30 Yeah, I knew what you meant by pink. Jul 02 15:59:36 It's mauve. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauve Jul 02 16:00:27 I was actually looking at the top trace - which is hot pink Jul 02 16:00:46 I diddn't realise in the small window that I looked it at that there were two similar hues. Jul 02 16:02:30 Uh, weird, your hostname is www.mauve.plus.com Jul 02 16:03:04 so, i'm leaving. cya Jul 02 16:06:03 how long is the estimated time to get a gps fix? Jul 02 16:06:18 maybe i should move the FR somewere else Jul 02 16:07:15 is it cloudy there? Jul 02 16:07:21 nope Jul 02 16:07:23 blue sky Jul 02 16:07:29 32°C Jul 02 16:07:41 nice im moving there then lol Jul 02 16:09:11 te_acrid: 12 minutes should be the max, pretty much Jul 02 16:09:43 te_acrid: 2 minutes is fairly common :-/ Jul 02 16:10:52 ouch Jul 02 16:11:12 te_acrid: About one minute is average for me, I think. Jul 02 16:11:16 i just realized tangops shows "0/0 satelites" Jul 02 16:11:30 did u actually go outside? Jul 02 16:11:31 te_acrid: I'm not sure tangogps knows about gypsy Jul 02 16:11:47 FR is lying outside. about 1,5m away from the wall Jul 02 16:11:51 te_acrid: But if you're not getting any satellites, something is wrong Jul 02 16:12:10 You can see the # of satellites in the raw nmea data Jul 02 16:12:22 like how? Jul 02 16:12:28 hey. Jul 02 16:12:50 Can someone save the Freerunner CAD files as a .slp file so I can open it in Blender? Jul 02 16:13:07 It seems a bit odd to offer CAD files for an open-source phone in a format that open-source software can't read. Jul 02 16:13:33 te_acrid: Look for GPGSA lines and interpret them using http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/nmea.htm#GSA Jul 02 16:13:44 (That being said, I certainly understand using commercial CAD software for rapid prototyping, etc.) Jul 02 16:13:58 jpt9: I think they never found a format that actually included the useful info that an OSS prog could read Jul 02 16:14:04 oh. Jul 02 16:14:05 jpt9: If they're in a format which nobody in the manufacturing industry uses it's unhelpful too :) Jul 02 16:14:10 jpt9: If you look in the mailing list archives there's a discussion about it Jul 02 16:14:14 ah. Jul 02 16:14:38 jpt9: i guess the department that manages those things doesn't even belong to openmoko and the design predates the neo anyway. Jul 02 16:14:45 GPGSV actually - for number of sats Jul 02 16:14:58 $GPGSV,3,1,11,23,45,176,27,17,44,258,24,11,41,152,24,13,12,197,11*7A Jul 02 16:15:12 the 3 insicates that this line has 3 satellites information on it Jul 02 16:15:35 I think the OSS cad program formats didn't have the info you would actually use to manufacture, just to make it look right Jul 02 16:15:46 the 1 is sat number, 11 is signal strength, 23,45 is the azimuth and elevation Jul 02 16:15:50 Or some other order Jul 02 16:15:56 I'm not planning on manufacturing it; I just like playing with Blender :-) Jul 02 16:15:57 5 days, and counting ;9 Jul 02 16:16:00 SpeedEvil: Yeah, that's better... you can get the info from GPGSA, too, by looking at the list of satellites connected Jul 02 16:17:02 jpt9: but those files are done primarly for manufacturing. And have been people offering to convert them to other formats. I think soon there'll be converted version of the freerunner files. Jul 02 16:17:04 Although I guess GPGSV shows the # of satellites in view, as opposed to actually being tracked Jul 02 16:17:35 one of the libraries to develop my application depends on gnome-keyring ( to store passwords ), should I disable this not to use gnome-keyring or try to compile it for openmoko, or any idea about that? Jul 02 16:18:24 Also, it'd help if all the CAD files didn't have .1 at the end of the filenames :-) Jul 02 16:18:30 But I think NX 5 can read them... Jul 02 16:28:43 is libglade ported to om? Jul 02 16:29:09 because if so, apps using libglade will be easy to port, am i right? Jul 02 16:29:11 doesn't need porting. Jul 02 16:29:38 i'm sure it's been in OE a long time. Jul 02 16:32:04 cool. Jul 02 16:38:28 Anyone heard if wxpython has been built for openmoko/neo devices? Jul 02 16:44:37 <`pwgen`> TAsn: sure, in OE, bitbake python-pygtk i think will build libglade Jul 02 16:45:03 `pwgen`, cool, thanks :) Jul 02 16:46:02 <`pwgen`> TAsn: i got dbusinspector running, after building + installing python-pygtk Jul 02 16:46:25 <`pwgen`> dbusinspector use some .glade file .. Jul 02 16:51:06 `pwgen`, i got that out of the context :) Jul 02 16:51:18 glade is a really good idea, im a big supporter of it. Jul 02 16:51:30 glade <3 Jul 02 16:51:49 Is OE still under monotone? I thought I had read recently that it was migrating to git. Jul 02 16:52:19 wurp2: still in progress Jul 02 16:53:08 XorA|gone: ah, thx Jul 02 17:18:52 <`pwgen`> TAsn: i can provide you a little sd-card image ~200mb uncompressed with pygtk Jul 02 17:19:16 `pwgen`, i wish i had the moko ;) Jul 02 17:19:25 but i don't so i have nothing to do with it now. Jul 02 17:19:38 but doesn't the pyneo come with pygtk? Jul 02 17:19:41 <`pwgen`> TAsn: i whish my gta02 will arrive soon Jul 02 17:20:06 `pwgen`, shh, don't make me cry of envy. im a grown man. Jul 02 17:20:56 <`pwgen`> pyneo will be deprecated and the succesor for it is ophoned/ fso-image Jul 02 17:21:37 <`pwgen`> .. i think , i am sure . for exact answer ask mlauer or mickeyl Jul 02 17:23:45 <`pwgen`> TAsn: be happy, without an real gta you never will be frustated if the gsm part isn't working as you want .... Jul 02 17:24:05 `pwgen`, im really excited about the fso image, i really don't think qtopia has a future, but i guess it's just my gtk fanboism talking, because it does not want qt to prevail :) Jul 02 17:24:21 `pwgen`, :) Jul 02 17:25:12 well im going to grab my self dinner. (ugt dinner that is) Jul 02 17:25:22 cya Jul 02 17:25:53 i still fail to get GPS working der OM gui counts fails (but somehow got the UTC). if i look at $GPGSV i see 1,1,00*79 Jul 02 17:26:36 I think pygtk should still be in the repositories Jul 02 17:27:01 te_acrid: So you're getting *1* satellite? Jul 02 17:27:05 That is the suck! Jul 02 17:27:14 Sorry, der Suck. Jul 02 17:27:43 if thats the way to interpret it... then yes Jul 02 17:29:33 <`pwgen`> wurp2: maybe am fso-gtk-image with an little gtk app .. Jul 02 17:29:35 Can you give the whole GPGSV line? Jul 02 17:30:54 te_acrid: Er, actually I think that says 0 satellites in view Jul 02 17:31:20 But that line content doesn't actually match what I see on the nmea data site I'm looking at... Jul 02 17:32:08 Maybe the PRN #, elevation, azimuth are omitted if there are no satellites Jul 02 17:32:39 actually, I'm pretty sure that's it. You're not getting *any* satellites. Jul 02 17:33:02 The gta01 doesn't spit out nmea data unless the gps is running... I'm not sure if that's true for FR Jul 02 17:33:06 Are you sure your gps is on? Jul 02 17:33:08 :-) Jul 02 17:33:46 `pwgen`: Are you suggesting a new image to create? Jul 02 17:34:08 `pwgen`: 'cause pythongtk or pygtk or whatever the package is called used to be in the repositories Jul 02 17:34:20 I know 'cause my charge rate monitor app uses it Jul 02 17:34:29 Of course, I've only tried that on 2007.2 images Jul 02 17:36:34 i switched it on by menu... and "gpsd /dev/ttySAC1" is running Jul 02 17:36:43 i dont know what eelse is needed... Jul 02 17:37:23 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * rfc4176d6a2bd 10/odeviced/docs/PLUGINS.txt: Sync docs Jul 02 17:37:23 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r0d4ffa85570f 10/odeviced/src/plugins/rtc/rtc-helpers.c: Add write_rtc_time that does changes rtc epoch correctly Jul 02 17:38:03 te_acrid: I'm not sure how to check if the device is on in FR Jul 02 17:38:22 te_acrid: Somewhere in /sys should be a *gps* directory with a *power* "file" in it Jul 02 17:38:33 if u in r in gpsd it will start outputting nmea Jul 02 17:38:37 and catting that file will give a 1 if it's on or a 0 if it's off Jul 02 17:38:59 wurp2: is it a writable proc entry also? Jul 02 17:39:49 Qwell: No idea; I don't have an FR. I thought they were writable on the gta01 Jul 02 17:40:02 if u wanna see what a working gpsd outputs to compare telnet to gpsd.mainframe.cx 2947 Jul 02 17:40:17 But some of those devices have a complicated start-up... you have to echo 0 to the power, then echo 1 to the reset, then echo 1 to the power or something Jul 02 17:40:29 funky Jul 02 17:40:42 I think that was just the gsm on the gta01, though Jul 02 17:41:01 and it was worse than that, since you have to send an AT@POFF to it in there somewhere Jul 02 17:43:13 <`pwgen`> wurp2: i am experimenting to build an sd card image that extends the fso image with some nice X apps and gtk support Jul 02 17:45:09 guys .. as far as i know freerunner has usb . so can you plug a flash disk ? Jul 02 17:47:57 ramaya: if it doesn't hog much power, yes Jul 02 17:49:08 there is a limit of 4 gb for the sd card ? Jul 02 17:49:19 `pwgen_shopping`: That's great!! Jul 02 17:51:04 ramaya, no Jul 02 17:51:51 mjr: look at this http://www.pulster.de/info/pdas/openmoko/freerunner-flyer.pdf Jul 02 17:52:13 on the memory section Jul 02 17:56:53 probably leftovers since the 8 GB microSDs are pretty new Jul 02 17:57:12 Yeah I noticed that collecting data with tango is a pretty good usage test. Jul 02 17:57:38 Since it eats cpu and power. Jul 02 18:09:15 Dave: Why do you say it eats power? GPS is not that power heavy, I don't think... although I guess that test will use plenty of power by keeping the CPU & bus buys Jul 02 18:09:19 s/buys/busy/ Jul 02 18:09:19 wurp2 meant: Dave: Why do you say it eats power? GPS is not that power heavy, I don't think... although I guess that test will use plenty of power by keeping the CPU & bus busy Jul 02 18:10:28 Wurp, that is correct, and you are right, however tango's near realtime updating/downloading of the maps and dynamically displaying them as you move, DOES in fact eat a lot of power :P Jul 02 18:10:49 It's a combination of things :) Jul 02 18:10:52 Oh, I predownload my maps, usually Jul 02 18:10:54 Good point :-) Jul 02 18:11:23 Hehe, yeah well so did I, but I drove several hundred miles yesterday so it was a great road test for the device! Jul 02 18:11:26 How has the gsm been on your FR? Do you ever lose calls? Jul 02 18:11:33 Heh, yep Jul 02 18:11:45 I haven't lost any calls yet, perhaps I should use it more to test :) Jul 02 18:11:49 So you have gprs working on your FR? Jul 02 18:11:53 Yes! Jul 02 18:12:03 My gsm seems to lose its connection to the network about once every couple of days Jul 02 18:12:10 A .. password? 0_o Jul 02 18:12:12 I'm working on a gprs communication application right now, actually. Jul 02 18:12:18 Wurp, strange... Jul 02 18:12:19 Dave: Did you have to do anything special, or just follow the wiki instructions? Jul 02 18:12:25 I'll try using it as a phone more :) Jul 02 18:12:35 Wurp, for which, gprs? Jul 02 18:12:39 Dave: That seems to be an issue that has come & gone with different builds Jul 02 18:12:42 Dave: yes Jul 02 18:13:47 Actually a couple of my fellow developers had already written a ppp chat script which utilized it, and I built off of that, I am however going to cross reference the wiki as I proceed forward :) Jul 02 18:13:58 I tested it on the GTA01 and now the GTA02 Jul 02 18:14:09 so far it "works," but I have yet to run one of my applications on it :) Jul 02 18:14:16 That is going to come towards the end of this week. Jul 02 18:14:40 Well, gprs has been using it, it sounds like Jul 02 18:14:42 * Dave thinks he should really be keeping a blog of sorts of all his exciting FR activity. Jul 02 18:14:45 i got a fix.... just took ages \o/ Jul 02 18:14:58 ~~o ~o~ o~~ Jul 02 18:15:07 Big brother is watching you, eh te_acrid? :) Jul 02 18:15:18 ^^ Jul 02 18:15:18 te_acrid: :-( Jul 02 18:15:28 Aww, what? Jul 02 18:15:41 Dave: How long to first gps fix for you? Jul 02 18:16:00 I was just commiserating with te_acrid on his slow gps fix Jul 02 18:17:06 Aww Jul 02 18:17:32 Wurp, my first? The first time I got it to work? or, on average how long after starting gpsd does it take to get a realistic fix from satellites? Jul 02 18:17:43 On average, how long after starting gps... Jul 02 18:17:53 Yeah, honestly, it is rather unpredictable. Jul 02 18:17:57 I would say *any* fix from satellites, not just realistic Jul 02 18:18:09 Sometimes it takes seconds (like 1-2), other times it can take thirty seconds Jul 02 18:18:15 You shouldn't get any lat/long info from gpsd until it has 4 satellites Jul 02 18:18:24 Dave: That's actually pretty freaking fantastic! Jul 02 18:18:25 My experience has also been, starting gpsd outside seems to help expedite the process :P Jul 02 18:18:39 *Way* better than the 01, which is the opposite of what I'd been led to believe Jul 02 18:18:49 otherwise, I just toss it in the car or my pocket and move around until I get in a "sweet spot" when it finally initializes Jul 02 18:19:11 I am a bit saddened that I think I broke gpsd on one of my freerunners Jul 02 18:19:21 I think it's a package conflict or something odd Jul 02 18:19:37 np: Queen - Reflash. Jul 02 18:19:38 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * raa567fee79f3 10/odeviced/src/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Jul 02 18:19:38 freesmartphone.org: helpers.vala: add write_string helper Jul 02 18:19:38 freesmartphone.org: input.vala: fix dangling parameter Jul 02 18:19:38 freesmartphone.org: rtc.vala: expose DBus method for Suspend Jul 02 18:19:47 because after installing stuff gpsd is clearly screwed up and never obtains data, ever, perhaps I'll reinvestigate it further later on. Jul 02 18:20:05 Though yes, wurp, in my experience the GTA02 can sometimes take an abnormally long time to get a fix :[ Jul 02 18:20:18 Daviey: are you actually turning the GPS off? Jul 02 18:20:20 furthermore, it's most disappointing feature is how little data it shows you on what's going on. Jul 02 18:20:37 Dave: if you don't, then it's still generating positions - as gllin would. Jul 02 18:20:37 SpeedEvil: Oh, good point :-/ Jul 02 18:21:03 Dave: Are you looking at the raw nmea data? That tells you quite a bit Jul 02 18:21:03 Speed, I follow the same procedure on all of them. Jul 02 18:21:07 Wurp, yes. Jul 02 18:21:32 Daviey: you're powering down the GPS explicitly? Jul 02 18:21:39 * SpeedEvil sighs. Jul 02 18:21:42 heehee Jul 02 18:21:45 Powering up? Jul 02 18:22:29 Dave: If you do not turn off the GPS, it will stay on, generating positions, then when you read it it'll simply output the latest one. Jul 02 18:23:02 Which is actually what I do most of the time, because the gps doesn't take that much power and I like looking back on the logs sometimes :-) Jul 02 18:23:22 For neo1973 - gllin is the bit which needs to be turned 'off'. Jul 02 18:23:28 hehe, I just log the interesting trips I've taken so far, so I can reconstruct the data later :) Jul 02 18:23:40 so it seems a lot of you got the new toy, can someone tell me the (approx) battery life in standby? is it hours, days, weeks, ...? Jul 02 18:23:48 xming: irrelevant. Jul 02 18:23:49 Dave: That's probably what happened when you got 1-2 second fixes. You should get nmea data every 3 seconds, so it would take a couple of seconds for tangogps to show a fix Jul 02 18:23:51 Battery life is a work in progress. The powersaving software is in a very rudimentary state. At the moment 12h is about the most. A week standby and 6 hours talk,20 hours mp3 is probable. Jul 02 18:24:14 Mine has lasted 24hr with nothing powered on :p Jul 02 18:24:14 SpeedEvil: so the current state is 12h? Jul 02 18:24:25 xming: Standby doesn't work right now, except on fso release which has very little (but very stable) functionality Jul 02 18:24:25 though that's rather impractical :P Jul 02 18:24:30 Daviey: is that CPU active at 400MHz? Jul 02 18:24:50 * Dave rolls his eyes at Speedevil's tabcomplete. Jul 02 18:24:51 Is Dave and Daviey seperate users Jul 02 18:24:53 ? Jul 02 18:24:59 Affirmative. Jul 02 18:25:20 * SpeedEvil notes he's never seen Dave and Daviey in the same room. Jul 02 18:25:35 * Dave casts a skeptical glare across the room to Daviey. Jul 02 18:25:43 3 or 4 days in standby would be very nice Jul 02 18:25:58 Dave: how did you set it up? Jul 02 18:26:13 Dave: GPS GSM bluetooth off, and just left it? Jul 02 18:26:13 * xming remembers his old nokia 6210i with 4 weeks standby Jul 02 18:26:26 Yeah and the display turned off as well. Jul 02 18:26:29 4 weeks is moderately unlikely. Jul 02 18:26:39 I don't think I did any separate software manipulations. Jul 02 18:26:49 Daviey: Just to check - you've not got it plugged in? Jul 02 18:26:51 I had used that phone for 2 years so I would know :) Jul 02 18:26:53 * SpeedEvil sighs. Jul 02 18:27:04 Though I have noticed those stupid software issues. Jul 02 18:27:13 Apps eating cpu constantly for no reason. :] Jul 02 18:27:18 Dave: plugged into USB that is. Jul 02 18:27:21 Certainly things will improve as time goes on :) Jul 02 18:27:29 Speed, are you asking if I did? Jul 02 18:27:39 for freerunner I am hoping for 3~4 days Jul 02 18:27:45 Dave: I'm just checking for oopses before editing wikis. Jul 02 18:28:00 xming: that should be - based on reported possibilities - very pessimstic. Jul 02 18:28:03 If you really want, I'll take three of them, follow the same procedure, and leave them on today, and let you know the average power on times of them :P Jul 02 18:28:22 Presumably sometime tomorrow :) Jul 02 18:28:22 Daviey: that would be of use. Jul 02 18:28:28 Okay. Jul 02 18:28:29 but with such a loverly toy I wonder if it would have 1 hour bat. life during the first weeks :) Jul 02 18:28:33 Daviey: u-boot - on GTA01 supported the 'speed' command. Jul 02 18:28:42 yeah, that was slick Jul 02 18:28:43 Dave: this let you set it to 50MHz if you wanted Jul 02 18:28:51 Dave: does 02 support that? Jul 02 18:28:52 right Jul 02 18:29:00 <`pwgen`> how do i create the Packages.sig files if i build my own repository ? Jul 02 18:29:02 xming: 1 hour - it's beetter than that. Jul 02 18:29:19 xming: you get at least 4-5 hours even with the screen on, you probably can't get under 2.5 hours or so. Jul 02 18:29:22 Unsure, if so it's not conveniently accessible. Jul 02 18:29:23 SpeedEvil: I meant I would drain the bat. in the first few weeks :) Jul 02 18:29:37 Speedevil, I haven't dared try the fast charge method, either :P Jul 02 18:29:57 Though I am going to submit my several bugreports on uBoot soon, once I get around to it :( Jul 02 18:30:09 It's quite disappointing, from a developer's perspective. Jul 02 18:30:20 from a user's perspective it was rather museful for the first five minutes. Jul 02 18:30:36 But then you realize, hey, I'm actually trying to get things done, this sucks :) Jul 02 18:32:18 Speedevil, another entire conversation could be about the accuracy of the GPS readings that I get. :\ Jul 02 18:34:26 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r248460d93d35 10/odeviced/src/ (daemon/plugin.vala plugins/input/input.vala): Jul 02 18:34:26 freesmartphone.org: plugin.vala: Make all symbols local to the respective plugins Jul 02 18:34:26 freesmartphone.org: input.vala: fix a trivial error Jul 02 18:34:38 how long does freerunner go with a fully charged battery? Jul 02 18:34:56 assume it's sleeping most of the time Jul 02 18:35:36 zlfita: Scroll up in the conversation :-) Jul 02 18:35:58 *sigh* Jul 02 18:38:04 terve Jul 02 18:39:09 rs now? Jul 02 18:39:16 12 hours now? Jul 02 18:39:18 thanks Jul 02 18:44:19 zlfita: And probably a week with standby Jul 02 18:44:38 zlfita: Which works in the fso release, if all you want is basic phone functionality from your FR Jul 02 18:49:40 `pwgen`: You should talk to Ainulindale about your fso release... I think he's working on something similar Jul 02 18:51:55 what is the screen like on the free runner? Is it fairly durable? Jul 02 18:52:54 Hydrant: I've had my gta01 for six months - I do have one scratch on it Jul 02 18:53:17 Hydrant: Scraping on any metal will scratch, most other things won't. I highly recommend getting screen protectors. Jul 02 18:53:41 alright... I was kinda hoping it would have a glass cover like the iPhone... they might have patented that though Jul 02 18:53:52 I was more curious than anything, doesn't change my desire to get one Jul 02 18:54:10 Hydrant: It's a resistive touch screen, so the screen has to compress to be able to detect touches Jul 02 18:54:28 can you buy screens like the one on the iphone? I doubt that apple would have invented it Jul 02 18:54:42 a pouch will probably protect on the go Jul 02 18:54:53 well it's going to be like a treo or something Jul 02 18:54:58 Dunno, but hacking it onto a FR would be a big task Jul 02 18:55:05 Hydrant: things change _hugely_ if you go to a manufacturer and say 'I want a million screens'. Jul 02 18:55:17 especially since the iphone screen has a quarter the resolution of the FR Jul 02 18:55:21 yah Jul 02 18:55:37 it'll be more like a treo then Jul 02 18:55:46 is the screen able to be replaced fairly easily? Jul 02 18:55:51 In principle, you can swap screens on GTA01 quite easily. Jul 02 18:55:55 I agree, though, I would much rather have a screen the size & rez of iphone, and with multitouch Jul 02 18:56:08 more so just the durability Jul 02 18:56:11 If you're not scared of making your own flex-PCBs, and own a rework station. Jul 02 18:56:11 I have an ipod touch Jul 02 18:56:35 hopefully I would be able to buy spare parts from openmoko.com Jul 02 18:56:50 it would be really sweet to be able to just get replacement parts if I need them Jul 02 18:57:34 In practice, with a scree protector, it's moderately hard to damage. Jul 02 18:57:36 screen Jul 02 18:57:52 Sitting on it may do it though. Jul 02 18:58:09 well ... if u give it to someone and someone tries to poke through -.- Jul 02 18:58:14 as happened to my pda Jul 02 19:01:11 I got no scratches at all on mine that I could see, after months of keeping it in my pocket (w/ no keys) or a pouch Jul 02 19:01:35 But when I started wearing it on my hip with a ClipHanger, I got a short, deep scratch within a week or 2 :-( Jul 02 19:01:58 But all of that was with no protector Jul 02 19:02:03 Now I have a protector :-) Jul 02 19:02:35 does anyone here have a Neo1973 ? Jul 02 19:02:42 yes Jul 02 19:02:56 Yes. Jul 02 19:03:13 hip - with screen out is _bad_. Jul 02 19:03:23 Way too vulnerable to crush injuries. Jul 02 19:03:45 I've just installed mwester's neod and kernel Jul 02 19:03:48 I'm not sticking the damn thing in my pocket (except when wearing cargo pockets) Jul 02 19:03:56 nor in a pouch around my neck Jul 02 19:04:06 and the GSM seems to work now... but the GPS doesn't when the phone returns from suspend Jul 02 19:04:10 So I guess it's on the hip until it breaks in a year, then I'll get a new one Jul 02 19:04:48 polz: Hrm, IMO suspend should just turn off gps & resume turn it back on (if it was on when suspended) Jul 02 19:04:51 SpeedEvil, wurp2, have you ever tried using GPS after the phone wakes ? Jul 02 19:04:57 polac: no Jul 02 19:05:01 lz: Jul 02 19:05:40 wurp2: I've tried turning the gps off manually before letting the phone suspend Jul 02 19:05:52 And it still won't come up after resume? Jul 02 19:05:55 wurp2: and it doesn't seem to be working when I turn it back on Jul 02 19:06:00 Yowza Jul 02 19:06:08 I think I have mwester's kernel on my phone now Jul 02 19:06:19 tangoGPS shows the correct GPS time but not the location Jul 02 19:06:26 I didn't know mwester had a custom neod Jul 02 19:06:56 polz: Have you tried looking at raw nmea data? Jul 02 19:07:05 To see how many satellites you're getting, etc Jul 02 19:07:32 'cause if you're getting the time, it's talking to satellites. I dunno anything other than some timing issue that would let it get satellite time but not a fix Jul 02 19:07:36 wurp2: http://moko.mwester.net/ Jul 02 19:08:06 wurp2: I got the neod from here Jul 02 19:08:32 and Tango says it can see the satellites Jul 02 19:08:45 Freerunner does not support 3g data communication? Jul 02 19:08:50 omry: no Jul 02 19:09:14 SpeedEvil, bummer. the next generation will? Jul 02 19:09:20 no Jul 02 19:09:26 why? Jul 02 19:09:26 polz: Ah, I saw the site, missed that I needed to get neod from the apmstuff.tgx Jul 02 19:09:27 omry: evetually, ys Jul 02 19:09:31 s/tgz/tgz/ Jul 02 19:09:47 omry: availability and cost reasons Jul 02 19:09:48 SpeedEvil, licensing issues? Jul 02 19:10:04 omry: I think 04 is the earliest we would see 3g... mjr would know better Jul 02 19:10:10 I wouldn't Jul 02 19:10:18 I'm just a hack Jul 02 19:10:20 Oh, I thought you were with OM Jul 02 19:10:31 Must be some other m-something TLA Jul 02 19:10:37 wurp2, 04? I am guessing that freerunner is 02? Jul 02 19:10:43 omry: yes Jul 02 19:10:43 yess Jul 02 19:10:49 nice guess :) Jul 02 19:10:51 but indeed, with GTA03, all that's being talked about is an upgrade to EDGE. Nothing major. Jul 02 19:11:07 03 is (theoretically) 02 - glamo + camera + something else I don't remember right now Jul 02 19:11:24 mjr: I didn't even know 03 was gonna do EDGE! That's big news! Jul 02 19:11:35 04, bets are off, but everyone hopes it's gonna do umts Jul 02 19:11:36 are there any resellers that ship to other countries? Jul 02 19:13:13 omry, ata lo harishon me haharetz that i c here :) Jul 02 19:13:32 wurp2, that's what raster at least has been throwing around. Since three weeks back I think. Jul 02 19:13:49 Yeah, but what the hell does he know Jul 02 19:13:52 TAsn, :), I just saw the ynet article. it reminded me that I checked this project a while ago. Jul 02 19:14:30 wurp2, that's true. Though Mickey tacitly implied also that this would be the case... Jul 02 19:14:34 omry, yeah, that doron guy is trying to get it approved and be a distributor. Jul 02 19:14:37 wurp2: correct me if I'm wrong - I should be seeing some GPGGA lines, right ? Jul 02 19:14:46 yes pol Jul 02 19:15:03 well, I'm not Jul 02 19:15:10 polac: those - and GPRMC sentances are the only position reports. Jul 02 19:15:22 omry, btw, there are the EU distributors that also ship here, but there are some customs issues, read in doron's blog, ofek.biz Jul 02 19:15:25 polz: souds like gllin's confused. Try killing and restarting. Jul 02 19:15:27 TAsn, approved by our beloved government? Jul 02 19:15:45 omry, yeah. Jul 02 19:15:53 it's only spitting out GPGSA and GPGSV lines Jul 02 19:16:01 all the tests have been made, there's just the fee left. Jul 02 19:16:04 polac: odd Jul 02 19:16:18 he is trying to make it happen Jul 02 19:16:18 TAsn, they were very quick to approve iPhone 2. make them look good. Jul 02 19:17:07 SpeedEvil: no change. Jul 02 19:17:14 omry, iphone has an official distributor here with labs and all the common bureaucratic crap :) Jul 02 19:17:24 TAsn, yeah Jul 02 19:17:29 omry, anyhow it will cost here about 700$ Jul 02 19:17:45 omry, will cost to him* Jul 02 19:17:45 wow. Jul 02 19:17:50 polz: have you gone back inside? Jul 02 19:18:00 omry, i do not know how much he will charge for it though. Jul 02 19:18:04 polz: if signal drops below a certain level, it will stop reporting positions. Jul 02 19:18:07 why so expensive? Jul 02 19:18:18 omry, taxes. Jul 02 19:18:22 OK, there was a gpgga line with obviously wrong values Jul 02 19:18:36 SpeedEvil: I'm outside and it's reporting 11 visible satellites Jul 02 19:18:46 TAsn, what about smugling one? :) Jul 02 19:18:58 could someone try reproducing this ? Jul 02 19:19:26 omry, shh, though that's the right thing to do. Jul 02 19:19:28 polz: :/ Jul 02 19:19:45 polz: I'm at work Jul 02 19:19:48 TAsn, well, any plans to do it? Jul 02 19:20:01 how can I check if the GPS is on or off ? Jul 02 19:20:04 don't shh me. you really thing the government lurks in the intertubes? Jul 02 19:20:15 polz: If you're getting timestamp lines, it's on Jul 02 19:20:21 omry, i don't think, i know. Jul 02 19:20:26 I think if you're getting any output from nmea at all, it's on Jul 02 19:20:29 anyhow, not sure, i will c. Jul 02 19:20:44 im a uk citizen as well, so i will see what i can do ;) Jul 02 19:20:56 TAsn, what will the price be for uk citizens? Jul 02 19:21:00 :) Jul 02 19:21:15 wurp2: I mean, is there a file in /sys or /proc where I can check whether it's off Jul 02 19:21:33 There is, but I dunno the name offhand Jul 02 19:21:43 wurp2: I'm suspecting it might have stayed on during the suspend Jul 02 19:21:43 find /sys -name *gps*, then snoop around :-/ Jul 02 19:22:18 There should be a directory of that name and a "file" with power in the name underneath it Jul 02 19:22:21 deja vu Jul 02 19:22:42 ls -l /sys/bus/platform/devices/gta01-pm-gps.0 <- thank you, uncle google Jul 02 19:22:54 omry, 272gbp including shipment in the uk. Jul 02 19:23:14 that's truebox's price Jul 02 19:23:24 not sure if there are any others. Jul 02 19:23:30 <`pwgen`> ahh mickeyl is awake Jul 02 19:24:23 TAsn, so that's like 2200 nis or something. not bad. Jul 02 19:24:59 what? no, it's a lot less. Jul 02 19:25:33 1 760.50463 Jul 02 19:25:40 according to google Jul 02 19:26:10 TAsn, last I checked, gbp was around 8nis. Jul 02 19:26:35 aaah, I seee Jul 02 19:26:50 neod doesn't power the gps back on Jul 02 19:26:56 schtupid Jul 02 19:27:18 omry, no according to google ;) Jul 02 19:27:44 hmm.. but even after power_on it doesn't seem to be working Jul 02 19:29:02 polz: The GTA01 GPS has several power switches. There's a "power_sequence" or something that will turn them all on/off in the proper order. Jul 02 19:29:06 will android run on the freerunner ? Jul 02 19:29:14 I read that android isn't really FOSS though Jul 02 19:29:34 mmontour: I'm trying to use that to power-cycle the GPS Jul 02 19:29:47 TAsn, right. 6.5 Jul 02 19:29:48 it seems. Jul 02 19:29:57 mmontour: unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be helping. Jul 02 19:30:14 TAsn, even better. so, think of your brother if you get one in the UK :) Jul 02 19:30:34 omry, :) Jul 02 19:30:35 mmontour: this might be a PEBKAC Jul 02 19:30:45 i have many brothers when i talk about the moko ;) Jul 02 19:30:57 mmontour: but I'd still feel better if someone else tried this Jul 02 19:31:04 * polz has to leave now. Jul 02 19:31:21 polz: I'm at work and I don't have access to my phone. Jul 02 19:31:44 omry, im off, cya. Jul 02 19:32:59 mmontour: you don't carry a mobile to work ? How noble of you :P Jul 02 19:33:25 <`pwgen`> dont forget the name changes in sysfs when useing glin Jul 02 19:33:44 I carry a mobile, but not my Neo. The battery life and audio quality are too poor for me to use it as a real phone. Jul 02 19:34:09 mmontour: Audio quality is too poor? Jul 02 19:34:14 Oh, you mean the echo Jul 02 19:34:33 If you turn down the volume about 10% it seems OK, but you have to do that every time a call starts :-( Jul 02 19:34:43 Mainly the echo. The buzz from the GSM RF is annoying, but tolerable. Jul 02 19:34:48 mmontour: Actually, if all you want is phone functionality, fso should fix both of your problems Jul 02 19:34:57 <`pwgen`> store the setting in the right state file Jul 02 19:35:17 wurp2: I have old GSM firmware, and my battery lasts less than 24 hours even while suspended. Jul 02 19:35:28 mmontour: Agh... send it to MShiloh Jul 02 19:36:11 Or pester them mercilessly until they get someone in the EU set up to do the upgrade Jul 02 19:36:11 wurp2: I may do that eventually. It's a PITA because he's in a different country. Jul 02 19:36:26 yes, the echo is crap and thus the volume should be turned down per default in the images Jul 02 19:36:26 Yeah, I just figured if you're not using it anyway... Jul 02 19:36:27 EU would be worse - I'm in Canada. Jul 02 19:36:50 mmontour: ah, then I would think the ship time to michael & back shouldn't be too bad Jul 02 19:37:01 it took 2 weeks for me, but I had bad timing - he had a show to do Jul 02 19:37:47 It's not just the time - there's a certain amount of paperwork required for international shipments. Jul 02 19:37:49 mjr: Hrm, I bet I could figure out the right volume level & distribute a .state file for it pretty easily, now that I think about it Jul 02 19:38:14 Anyone know offhand which alsa control is adjusted by the volume bar on the old gtk dialer? Jul 02 19:39:46 mjr: turning down the volume will reduce the echo, but it will also make the regular audio path quieter. Jul 02 19:40:23 True, but down about 10% seems to make the echo much better and the audio only very slightly harder to hear Jul 02 19:41:10 These adjustments really need to be done by someone with access to proper test equipment, not just "it sounds a bit better". Unfortunately I do not have such equipment. Jul 02 19:41:37 does anyone know how many phones have already been sold in the EU Jul 02 19:41:57 im just interested in stats, before i finally go ;) Jul 02 19:44:23 I know mine was the 100th something for bearstech Jul 02 19:44:49 `pwgen`: you have a query by the way Jul 02 19:45:56 hi Jul 02 19:46:11 methril|laptop: still building :-) Jul 02 19:49:57 i don't know i'm now at home Jul 02 19:50:05 building other things :) Jul 02 19:50:50 yo Jul 02 19:53:25 Ainulindale, i know truebox had at least 18 :) since when i entered there once it said qty left: 18 ;) Jul 02 19:58:57 mmontour: RE: needing equipment to adjust the call volume: The perfect is the enemy of the good. Jul 02 20:01:01 Which is not to say that someone with equipment shouldn't do it, I'm just saying that a something better than what we have now would be nice in the interim. Jul 02 20:02:53 hey guys, would it be handy to have an extra li-ion battery? Or isn't this necessary Jul 02 20:06:13 wurp2: that's true if everyone agrees on which one is better. But feel free to try it - I'd be glad to test your state file if you can come up with one that works better for you. Jul 02 20:07:17 Blalien: see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_(GTA02)_Battery#Notes_about_expected_battery_life Jul 02 20:07:31 SpeedEvil: I plagiarized your comment about battery life into the link above Jul 02 20:08:22 Rught Jul 02 20:08:24 i Jul 02 20:08:45 wurp2: I have some patches for the kernel and for alsamixer that you may want to use. The kernel patch adds dB values to the mixer controls, and the alsamixer patch reduces screen clutter by hiding some of the less-interesting controls. Jul 02 20:10:34 mmontour: That sounds nice... where do we pick those up? Jul 02 20:10:53 I just created http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_(GTA02)_FAQ (no real content yet, just battery life) Jul 02 20:11:30 @wurp2 , Thanks I didn't read that part on the site. But it's good to know how long the battery will last Jul 02 20:14:10 how are you with the compilation? Jul 02 20:14:20 NOTE: Running task 1930 of 3836 Jul 02 20:14:21 wurp2, may god bless you :) Jul 02 20:14:25 a much needed page. Jul 02 20:14:28 But I'm trying `pwgen`'s image Jul 02 20:14:36 wurp2: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2008-June/003001.html Jul 02 20:14:51 And it 's looking nice Jul 02 20:15:32 Blalien: I added it after you asked the question :-) Jul 02 20:16:14 TAsn: Yeah, really I was more concerned about the 'frequently answered questions' Jul 02 20:16:20 I'm tired of typing the answers Jul 02 20:16:26 wurp2, :) Jul 02 20:16:30 Or watching the traffic as someone else does Jul 02 20:16:46 faq = frequent things you write in irc ;0 Jul 02 20:16:48 mmontour: Thanks Jul 02 20:16:51 wurp2, hehe. Jul 02 20:17:02 @wurp2 Hahaha ok ^^ thank you then. It will be very handy ;) Jul 02 20:17:03 btw, is there java for the moko yet? Jul 02 20:17:37 TAsn: There's another one. Jalimo Jul 02 20:18:03 wurp2, good enough :) iirc java is going open source, right? Jul 02 20:18:17 that will be a good thing ;) Jul 02 20:18:23 well im off to sleep Jul 02 20:18:39 g'night Jul 02 20:18:52 @TAsn Good night Jul 02 20:18:54 That one is at least much less typing to answer Jul 02 20:19:14 Ainulindale: Is it suspending & resuming for you? Jul 02 20:19:50 I'm trying right now Jul 02 20:20:11 His image wouldn't consistently ring when I called it :-( Jul 02 20:20:22 When you called it ? Jul 02 20:20:25 How did you call it ? Jul 02 20:20:43 How can it be possible there's so much information here and none on the wiki ? :-) Jul 02 20:25:21 has anyone video experience with openmoko ? Jul 02 20:26:02 Someone tell the openmoko store to open Jul 02 20:26:04 so I can buy one Jul 02 20:26:30 I dont want to pay £500 for one from Europe :S Jul 02 20:26:48 why 500 ? Jul 02 20:26:54 it is cheaper Jul 02 20:27:00 trisoft.de sells them for 350 euro i believe Jul 02 20:27:20 I dont see them on the distrubtor list on openmoko.com Jul 02 20:27:22 a german site sells them for 300 Jul 02 20:28:21 thats still $480 CDN + shipping :S Jul 02 20:28:21 and the english site 272 pounds Jul 02 20:28:24 hmm Jul 02 20:29:23 hfsplus: where are u from ? Jul 02 20:29:38 ramaya: Canada Jul 02 20:29:57 ok i thought u were from europe Jul 02 20:31:04 Nope Jul 02 20:31:12 thats why I'd prefer to buy it from North America Jul 02 20:31:23 I'm going to get raped on import duties as is.... Jul 02 20:31:37 I don't want to wind up paying $600+ in the end if I can avoid it Jul 02 20:32:11 You need a us one anyway Jul 02 20:32:14 can't you just drive into the states, grab one, go back? Jul 02 20:32:14 do pu pay tax if u buy from europe ? Jul 02 20:32:22 canadia uses 850MHz Jul 02 20:32:25 350 euro is to much in my opinion. I orderd it at Pulster.de ~340 euro incl. pouch, headset and shipping cost. But still waiting for a reaction and the payment details Jul 02 20:32:33 SpeedEvil: ahh there is a difference? Jul 02 20:32:40 between the eur and us models? Jul 02 20:32:40 hfsplus: yes Jul 02 20:32:53 then I *must* wait for the openmoko store. Jul 02 20:32:54 hfsplus: triband Jul 02 20:32:55 ahwell Jul 02 20:33:30 SpeedEvil: my current phone is from Japan. I just kinda figured GSM was GSM without looking in to it. Jul 02 20:33:35 * hfsplus is special like that :P Jul 02 20:34:00 hfsplus: there are 4 global bands Jul 02 20:34:23 ahhh Jul 02 20:34:26 hfsplus: the eu uses one set of 3 , US the other Jul 02 20:35:00 Then I await the OpenMoko store with much anticipation Jul 02 20:37:45 methril|laptop: build fails, can't find rsync-3.0.0 (404 on angstrom) Jul 02 20:42:20 Ainulindale: Sorry, I was offline. I called my gta01 with the `pwgen` install right after I installed the image... Jul 02 20:42:44 Oh, ok Jul 02 20:42:58 The image isn't working for me, no networking, can't see why Jul 02 20:43:09 So I can't type a thing, or ssh to it Jul 02 20:43:14 So I'm a bit stuck Jul 02 20:43:17 (again) Jul 02 20:43:39 Ainulindale: Ouch... networking did work for me Jul 02 20:43:48 I was wondering if he was updating that file over time Jul 02 20:44:03 Since he said he could suspend & resume on call, and had stable calling over the course of days Jul 02 20:44:10 And it broke for me 5 min after installing :-( Jul 02 20:44:22 What is worrying me is the battery life Jul 02 20:44:37 `pwgen` was telling me the gsm cpu has a power consumption of 24mAh Jul 02 20:44:50 which looked really nasty to me Jul 02 20:45:26 Ainulindale: Well, 3400 mAH / 24 mA > 120 H Jul 02 20:45:41 Errr I thought it was 1200mAH Jul 02 20:45:49 sorry, sec Jul 02 20:45:55 It's 1200 mAH Jul 02 20:46:04 But > 3400 mWH Jul 02 20:46:07 which is what matter Jul 02 20:46:07 s Jul 02 20:46:19 'cause it's 3.5 volts or so Jul 02 20:46:34 And I'm pretty sure the gsm power consumption he gave you was 24 mW Jul 02 20:46:54 and my calculation should have been 3400 mWH / 24 mW > 120 H Jul 02 20:47:21 Sounds more coherent Jul 02 20:47:23 and that is probably only during calls Jul 02 20:47:28 I was a bit worried Jul 02 20:47:41 Actually that sounds like gsm standby power cons. to me Jul 02 20:47:46 But it should still be no prob Jul 02 20:47:50 Vegar: Nope I think not, as the gsm cpu must be aware at all times, no ? Jul 02 20:48:01 A useful way to calculate things is percentage of a battery a subsystem uses per hour. Jul 02 20:48:08 the gsm chipset has a power saving mode Jul 02 20:48:10 I rounded my numbers down in my estimates, I think its > 3400 mWH Jul 02 20:48:10 Ainulindale: there are two GSM CPUs. Jul 02 20:48:19 Ok, here it is Jul 02 20:48:21 I'm totally lost Jul 02 20:48:30 Ainulindale: one that talks to the radio, one that talks to the serial port. Jul 02 20:48:37 Please give me little chunks to bite I'm new ! :-) Jul 02 20:48:57 But I would only worry about the total GSM power cons. in standby Jul 02 20:49:11 You don't care how it's constructed, at least for these purposes :-) Jul 02 20:49:43 What I was wondering was Jul 02 20:50:04 I suppose it's a goal to be able to have calls while in suspend, am I misguided ? Jul 02 20:50:11 Ainulindale: yes Jul 02 20:50:17 Yes I'm misguided ? Jul 02 20:50:47 Woot, I found a two-adapter combination for plugging a std. usb peripheral into a Neo. I almost thought I needed 4 :] Jul 02 20:51:16 Ainulindale: yes it's a goal Jul 02 20:51:31 Ainulindale: per the wiki, "GSM module deep sleep(alive and keep contact with base station) stage should take less than 8mA" Jul 02 20:51:34 SpeedEvil: You almost scared me :-p Jul 02 20:51:41 8mA @ 5 V = 40 mW Jul 02 20:51:42 mjr: you mean to use the USB Host function? Jul 02 20:51:46 Blalien, yeah Jul 02 20:51:51 wurp2: it won't be 5V Jul 02 20:51:53 (using my existing adapters) Jul 02 20:52:00 That's what I was just about to ask Jul 02 20:52:09 wurp2: 3.3 is likely Jul 02 20:52:24 Why the hell does the wiki insist on phrasing things in A, when W are so much more useful Jul 02 20:52:26 wurp2: Actually - it runs off battery unregulated though switched Jul 02 20:52:40 mind boggles that neither of my two usb adapter sets has exactly the right adapter Jul 02 20:53:18 but at least using one from both results in the correct configuration Jul 02 20:53:43 mjr: I orderd a USB-A female to USB-A female adapter to connect anything with the provided USB-A to USB-B mini cable Jul 02 20:53:54 Oh, good point - hence the lack of phone when battery is missing Jul 02 20:53:57 Ah, so 8mA * 3.5 v =~ 28 mW Jul 02 20:54:23 er, shoulda been 3.7 v, and 29.6 mW Jul 02 20:54:31 Hmmm weird Jul 02 20:54:40 wurp2: coputing to decimals is probably ... Jul 02 20:54:44 bitbake fso-image gives a wonderful error about svn.openmoko.org certificate. Jul 02 20:54:53 Battery is 1200 mA at the same voltage, so 1200 / 8 = 150 H Jul 02 20:55:06 wurp2: call it 30mW, and you won'tbe that far wrong. Or .66% of battery/hour Jul 02 20:55:11 Ainulindale: something about invalid key usage? Jul 02 20:55:15 or, key usage violation Jul 02 20:55:25 Which is odd since they say they expect 150 - 200 hours standby time in the same doc where they give the figures to show 150 hours should be max. Jul 02 20:55:44 Blalien, yeah that'll do it. Actually I have one of those here, so yes, with that cable it's only one adapter. Jul 02 20:55:50 SpeedEvil: Yeah, that's why I just let the Vs cancel out between battery and gsm & just calculated by AH Jul 02 20:55:55 Qwell: nope, just no third party certification Jul 02 20:56:00 oh Jul 02 20:56:40 I svn'ed co manually in order to add an exception Jul 02 20:58:57 I think I've never been so eager to build a program and yet never been so pissed at the length of the process... what a pain :-) Jul 02 21:00:18 anyone got FR working with WPA and hidden essid? Jul 02 21:01:50 I got imate ppc, are there any instructions on how to install the openmoko on it? Jul 02 21:03:45 nighthawk06: You want to build openmoko? Jul 02 21:03:55 nighthawk06: Or just communicate with your FR? Jul 02 21:04:03 Or burn images on your FR? Jul 02 21:04:16 what is FR? Jul 02 21:04:24 Freerunner Jul 02 21:04:46 that is the hardware,...? Jul 02 21:05:03 I got imate pda, and would like to use openmoko on it Jul 02 21:05:15 nighthawk06: But I don't know what that means! Jul 02 21:05:26 nighthawk06: Do you mean you want to run the openmoko emulator on it? Jul 02 21:05:34 nighthawk06, that is the hardware currently starting to be for sale Jul 02 21:05:36 Oh, sorry Jul 02 21:05:38 Now I see Jul 02 21:05:41 it is a brand of phone,... ( http://www.imate.com ) Jul 02 21:05:57 I doubt OpenMOko has been ported to the imate Jul 02 21:05:59 pda to say exact Jul 02 21:06:10 freerunner ready as a primary phone or still a toy? ill be getting one in any case i guess but ive heard some bad opinions form users Jul 02 21:06:15 Yeah, once you added pda I understood Jul 02 21:06:29 are there other linux distros that I can use to install on imate? if you might know? Jul 02 21:06:36 The "imate ppc" comment at the beginning made me think it was a mac pc of some sort Jul 02 21:06:46 nighthawk06: Sorry :-( Jul 02 21:06:52 pepperjack: Toy for right now Jul 02 21:06:54 pepperjack, that's a relative term, though if you feel the need to ask, then "no" :] Jul 02 21:07:11 pepperjack: Although I have used my gta01 as primary phone for months, but I am fairly tolerant of issues Jul 02 21:07:21 * mjr too (gta01 primary) Jul 02 21:09:18 still want one i cant help it :) just the thought of wifi and sshing into my home machine Jul 02 21:09:36 thanks Jul 02 21:11:34 I've gotten a lot of enjoyment out of my gta01 Jul 02 21:17:38 pepperjack, you don't need an openmoko phone to ssh. a phone with decent java support will do: http://www.xk72.com/midpssh/ Jul 02 21:18:04 though, yeah my phone doesn' have wifi Jul 02 21:18:07 peepsalot: Shh! Jul 02 21:18:18 We almost have another sale Jul 02 21:18:30 don't get me wrong, i'm definitely purchasing a freerunner Jul 02 21:19:03 just because there's so much more I will be able to do with it, beyond ssh Jul 02 21:19:10 Regular smartphones have a lot more capability than I was aware of Jul 02 21:19:37 I was never willing to look into it because I wasn't gonna pay $300 (or lock myself into a multiyear contract) to get a phone that was intentionally broken Jul 02 21:19:53 i.e. no full bluetooth access, no installing ringtones w/o paying provider, ec. Jul 02 21:19:58 s/ec./etc./ Jul 02 21:19:59 wurp2 meant: i.e. no full bluetooth access, no installing ringtones w/o paying provider, etc. Jul 02 21:20:30 huh is that some king of bot, this apt? Jul 02 21:20:36 There are only 2 things I do with my neo that I get a reaction from "normal" developers over Jul 02 21:20:39 cozub: yeah Jul 02 21:20:49 handling s///, that's cool :) Jul 02 21:20:49 Use gps w/o paying a monthly fee Jul 02 21:21:11 And when I whip out the iGo bt kbd and use it as a laptop Jul 02 21:21:19 cozub: yeah :-) Jul 02 21:25:15 other phones charge monthly for gps? Jul 02 21:25:30 that doesn't even make sense Jul 02 21:26:18 peepsalot: They charge to let you dl map info Jul 02 21:26:49 And since you have little control over what sw is on the phone, you can't install map software that uses openstreetmaps or whatever Jul 02 21:27:08 I think charging to let you dl maps they maintain is reasonable Jul 02 21:27:18 But charging $10/month or more for that is crazy Jul 02 21:28:02 But when you control the device and the service, you can charge $19/mo for map downloads or $0.20 for a 160 char max text message Jul 02 21:41:01 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r8bf07f4127bb 10/conf/frameworkd.conf: explain how to configure the IdleNotifier Jul 02 21:55:19 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rbfb87b0b8706 10/ (framework/cli-framework setup.py tools/cli-framework): move cli-framework into tools directory Jul 02 22:00:07 raster: how do I delete a character with the illume keyboard? Jul 02 22:00:36 edistar: try some right to left swipe Jul 02 22:01:07 zash: won't work, where should I try? Jul 02 22:01:18 hmm, anyone have any idea why some keys (like a,d,c,f) on the (apple) bluetooth keyboard don't work when I change to the 1st virtual terminal? Jul 02 22:01:19 on the onscreen keyboard Jul 02 22:06:03 chvt 2 Jul 02 22:06:06 :) oops Jul 02 22:06:46 nice news about the fso/gta01 on the community list Jul 02 22:07:26 recovered multiple times from suspend, most of the time in suspend, after 21 hours a call received Jul 02 22:07:46 :) Jul 02 22:08:20 illume keyboard == qtopia keyboard? Jul 02 22:12:30 zash: no Jul 02 22:13:00 oh Jul 02 22:28:46 what's with the "unless you have the password"? Jul 02 22:29:52 admin password perhaps? Jul 02 22:31:39 ConfidentiaL: try again 7/7 Jul 02 22:31:48 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rfde228429e2f 10/framework/introspection.py: add introspection parser (taken from D-Feet) in preparation of FSO ticket #2 Jul 02 22:36:25 Good day, wurp :] Jul 02 22:40:15 gmaxwell gives us some interesting thikns to think :) Jul 02 22:40:42 then, it's europe the first to sell the FreeRunners? Jul 02 22:40:44 :D Jul 02 22:41:35 Dave: howdy Jul 02 22:42:08 methril__: Yeah, several people in EU and UK already have FR Jul 02 22:42:11 what's the ASU root pw? Jul 02 22:42:26 edistar: Is it not blank? Jul 02 22:42:31 i know, and some of the resellers are out of stock Jul 02 22:42:35 * edistar has one (germany) Jul 02 22:42:35 yay its gonna be on thursday Jul 02 22:42:49 linuxxr: Is it? Is there an update on the ML? Jul 02 22:43:06 well friday Jul 02 22:43:07 wurp2 an ssh via wifi with blank doesn't work Jul 02 22:43:24 check yahoo news Jul 02 22:44:29 edistar: Sorry, I can't help you then. :-( Jul 02 22:44:41 edistar: You say ASU, so you flashed over the image that came on the FR? Jul 02 22:44:57 yes Jul 02 22:45:20 edistar: I know almost nothing about ASU Jul 02 22:45:57 it works, though really slow compared to gta01 Jul 02 22:46:23 http://cf.us.biz.yahoo.com/bw/080702/20080702005242.html?.v=1 Jul 02 22:46:55 http://www.forbes.com/businesswire/feeds/businesswire/2008/07/02/businesswire20080702005242r1.html Jul 02 22:48:14 http://www.engadgetmobile.com/tag/openmoko Jul 02 22:49:00 Marc didn't tell us what FSO image he's running :-/ Jul 02 22:49:19 marc? Jul 02 22:49:39 wifi is nice Jul 02 22:50:48 though it doesn't have the best reach Jul 02 22:51:22 edistar: the last asu snapshot I flashed to did not have a root pw set Jul 02 22:51:56 that was from om.com Jul 02 22:52:24 so whats the freerunner going to be shipped with qtopia -oponmoko image? Jul 02 22:52:35 -openmoko Jul 02 22:52:42 Tig|: how do I set one then? Jul 02 22:53:03 just use : pw Jul 02 22:53:24 Tig|: how do I get access to console? Jul 02 22:53:42 linuxxr: freerunner is currently shipping with the 2007.2 gtk release image Jul 02 22:53:50 edistar: The guy who reported on FSO image performance on the community list Jul 02 22:53:59 ok Jul 02 22:54:01 linuxxr: Plain OM image Jul 02 22:54:07 edistar: erm there should be a terminal application Jul 02 22:54:28 Gotta run, have a good whatever it is wherever you are Jul 02 22:54:48 Tig|: where? Jul 02 22:55:05 edistar: what image are you running? Jul 02 22:55:18 asu, 30. june Jul 02 22:55:32 in that case is it not on the main grid? Jul 02 22:55:59 there was a terminal app there last time I looked Jul 02 22:56:00 no Jul 02 22:56:22 not here Jul 02 22:56:37 in that case I have no idea, not played about with it enough Jul 02 22:56:52 and assassin only finds about 5 programs to install.. Jul 02 22:57:26 edistar: remember that it is a work in progress and is not ready for human consumption Jul 02 23:09:45 OpenMoko is for external use only! Jul 02 23:12:53 Is there any package management in OpenMoko? Jul 02 23:16:49 opkg/ipkg Jul 02 23:18:16 proly like slackpkg Jul 02 23:40:54 Greetings friends. Jul 03 00:06:53 what is the password Jul 03 00:59:17 Silly gps issues. Jul 03 01:07:19 so is the US version going to have the 850 or 900 mhz choice? T-Mobile looks to only have 1900 Mhz so will it not work for me? Jul 03 01:09:45 SirBob1701: both models have 1800 and 1900. The difference is whether they have 850 or 900 as the third band (850 for USA) Jul 03 01:10:58 ok what is the third band used for if i may inquire Jul 03 01:11:14 i know i've heard tri band just didn't know that is what those freqs were fore Jul 03 01:17:40 grr Jul 03 01:18:01 SirBob1701: The frequencies are matched, 850/1900 in North America, and 900/1800 in Europe and other parts of the world. The extra high band does no useful work. Jul 03 01:18:16 I can't copy/paste the link, but the top google result for "tri-band GSM phone" explains it quite well Jul 03 01:19:05 GSM was originally spec'd for 900/1800, but the 900 MHz band was already given away in US and CA -- you have baby monitors and cr*p like that to thank for the fact that N. America is the oddball in GSM! Jul 03 01:19:19 haha Jul 03 01:19:24 mmontour: thanks Jul 03 01:19:29 Has anyone heard if the tri-band "feature" will be fixed in the GTA03? Jul 03 01:20:53 I haven't heard; I assumed that since the plan for the GTA03 was to be a GTA02 without the glamo chip, it would be the same junk GSM (calypso). Jul 03 01:21:20 mwester: is the being replaced with another chip? Jul 03 01:21:25 *is the glamo Jul 03 01:21:52 Don't think so -- the SoC can probably out-do the glamo by itself. Jul 03 01:22:07 kik Jul 03 01:22:26 HI all. is there any fixed date for the distribution of openmoko through online store? Jul 03 01:22:56 gotta get my dev version of asu working Jul 03 01:23:22 There's a moving target if ever there was one! Jul 03 01:23:36 mwester: I thought the tri-band problem was not the calypso itself, but something botched on the PCB. Am I wrong? Jul 03 01:23:38 oh dear god my laptop is ALIVE Jul 03 01:23:59 I almost thought I was going to have to use my $400 freerunner money for a new motherboard (also $400 it seemed as if the gods were taunting me) Jul 03 01:24:14 lol Jul 03 01:24:27 you need a desktop it sounds like ;D Jul 03 01:25:20 wildnux: july 4th i hear Jul 03 01:25:48 rtm: it's rather more complicated; the Calypso can do 3 out of 4 bands at a time (don't know how you switch it), and the RF components on the board are only able to do a fixed set of three. So if you extended the switching to the external components, perhaps one could make it switch on the fly? Either way, it would still be a junky chip for a lot of reasons. Jul 03 01:26:40 alphabeat: thank you. i can wait no more Jul 03 01:27:09 SirBob1701: I have a nice athlonmp workstation but I need a laptop so I can code on the road Jul 03 01:27:16 SirBob1701: gsm modem + laptop -> ah, freedom! Jul 03 01:27:23 mwester: Thanks. Jul 03 01:28:06 hmm true Jul 03 01:28:49 Hi. I'm writing for an Italian IT news website. Is there any OpenMoko/FreeRunner developer and/or employee who would like to get a little interview? Jul 03 01:31:20 So, nobody from OpenMoko on this channel? Jul 03 01:32:27 Michelecs: Openmoko employees are on this channel fairly frequently. You might want to check back later. Jul 03 01:32:40 thanks rtm Jul 03 01:34:40 The arrival of a member of the Fourth Estate sure shut everyone up! Jul 03 01:35:04 a noob question: how much a debug board be a help for a noob like me, who has passed only 2 yrs with linux and has some knowledge of programming Jul 03 01:35:34 wildnux: It is very unlikely that you will need a debug board. Jul 03 01:35:59 mwester: the calypso gsm module is EOL'd. it's going if we like it or not.,.. :) Jul 03 01:36:12 It is really only needed if you plan to debug the kernel or device drivers. It allows you to single step the CPU, check memory etc. Jul 03 01:36:21 rtm: can you give me more info about the debug board , some sort of links ...or any info.. Jul 03 01:36:42 ok Jul 03 01:36:49 wildnux: Have you looked on the openmoko.org wiki? Jul 03 01:37:13 yes .. i am looking on to it ...... :) Jul 03 01:38:28 wildnux: Although almost nobody needs it, the debug board has a kind of uber-nerd cache. How many people can talk to their cell phone via J-TAG? Jul 03 01:38:46 mwester: overall the glamo speeds some things up, helps some, and is a big block for others Jul 03 01:39:28 video playback is helped by yuv->rgb expansion+scaling, but unless u only provide mpeg4, u have to upload yuv data and that makes your resolution limited due to bandwidth Jul 03 01:39:44 even tho the chip could scale and convert much higher res, it wont as u cant uplaod data fast enough Jul 03 01:40:21 if u are needing to re-encode as mpeg4 to play on it, you can downscale it anyway at the same time so it doesnt matter really :) Jul 03 01:40:41 but the same bus limitation affects pretty much all graphics ops u cant fully accelerate ont he glamo Jul 03 01:40:51 raster: what do you use to encode avidemux? Jul 03 01:41:00 and theres a lot of them - especially the more compelx ones, that would be part of xrender, that can't be accelerated Jul 03 01:41:32 so u may accelerate - in theory, if u did everything on the glamo that it could do, 8 out of 10 stages of a draw Jul 03 01:41:37 but 2 will need software fallbacks Jul 03 01:42:04 those 2/10 alone will make the whole rendering slower than doing it with the cpu in system ram to start with due to read-back and write through again to viddeo ram Jul 03 01:42:23 so you begin to go "is it work doing all the extra accel work when even that is dubiously useful" Jul 03 01:42:35 so we have simple blits and solid fills Jul 03 01:43:08 the bus - if we could get it faster (or at least be async and not steal the cpu while doing copies) would be a major improvement Jul 03 01:43:11 but we can't Jul 03 01:43:30 SirBob1701: u mean re-encode for my freerunner? Jul 03 01:43:36 ya Jul 03 01:43:40 i dont Jul 03 01:43:43 Hi raster, are you That Rasterman? Jul 03 01:43:43 raster: do you know something about the max bandwidth on glamo's internal bus? Jul 03 01:43:45 i wouldnt use it for video playback Jul 03 01:43:52 i.e. glamo <-> its VRAM Jul 03 01:44:16 sometimes it seems that it's not much faster than the cpu <-> glamo link Jul 03 01:44:17 balrog-kun: aaah max internal bus.. umm.. i think its on the order of about 98mb/s Jul 03 01:44:21 i think Jul 03 01:44:23 from memory Jul 03 01:44:32 humm, that should be plenty Jul 03 01:44:35 i remember reading 45 or 48mhz Jul 03 01:44:37 or 50mhz Jul 03 01:44:39 one of theose 3 Jul 03 01:44:41 Good evening, Balrog-kun. Jul 03 01:44:50 hi there Dave Jul 03 01:44:58 and the blitter can copy at bus speed so 1 word (16bits) per cycle Jul 03 01:45:12 err sorry 96m/sec Jul 03 01:45:39 michelecs: no. i'm the tooth fairy :):) Jul 03 01:45:47 raster: i would hope so but what makes me doubt is that 90deg doing rotation while blitting can slow it down even 4 times Jul 03 01:46:03 err doing 90deg rotation Jul 03 01:46:15 raster: I'm writing for an Italian IT news website (www.webnews.it). Would you like to have a little interview, just a few questions? Jul 03 01:46:56 i'd say the glamo can access its own vram maybe 2x faster than the CPU Jul 03 01:47:12 balrog-kun: much faster Jul 03 01:47:31 balrog-kun: just a sec... Jul 03 01:47:49 michelecs: right now, i don't have time :( Jul 03 01:47:58 i'd sure love to be wrong Jul 03 01:48:02 ;E Jul 03 01:48:05 :D Jul 03 01:48:21 hmm. hey tooth fairy! I got a bone to pick with you! when I was 8, I stuck my tooth under my pillow, and it was still there when I woke up Jul 03 01:49:01 michelecs: Try phrasing your questions so that each one touches on a bus-bandwidth issue. Jul 03 01:49:27 haha Jul 03 01:49:34 :), rtm Jul 03 01:51:05 Anyway: I have to write an article about the upcoming FreeRunner. Any of the developer who would like to answer a few questions (nothing too technical) could knock at my door. Jul 03 01:51:11 oy Jul 03 01:51:43 bl the 3d engine quotes 50m/pixels/sec fillrates - 2d blit i know is faster Jul 03 01:51:47 trying to finmd the details Jul 03 01:51:54 wait no Jul 03 01:51:55 same Jul 03 01:51:58 50mpixe/sec Jul 03 01:52:08 thats the fillrate for the 2d engine Jul 03 01:52:13 tooth fairy I want my $2! Jul 03 01:53:04 michelecs: you should ask to talk to michael shiloh Jul 03 01:53:04 michelecs: If you are willing to settle for answers that are not from an official Openmoko employee, it is likely that there are people on this channel who can answer your questions. Jul 03 01:53:05 that's fast enough Jul 03 01:53:14 he's one of our community represetnatives Jul 03 01:53:15 also roh Jul 03 01:53:35 i have a bunch of things i have to to today so it's not really a good time Jul 03 01:53:49 ya, like send my $2 Jul 03 01:53:58 Nice. Jul 03 01:54:04 raster: Thanks. How could I contact him? Is he on this channel? Jul 03 01:54:17 ljp: all your too-dolla (love you long time) belong to us! Jul 03 01:54:27 email Jul 03 01:54:39 o_O Jul 03 01:54:41 Michael Shiloh Jul 03 01:55:10 Joachim Steiger Jul 03 01:55:27 Thanks raster. Hope in the future I could also contact you. Jul 03 01:55:48 * ljp stomps off in a tanty Jul 03 01:56:16 Better run, raster :P Jul 03 01:56:17 some of them can be met on this channel sometimes but more in the GMT day times Jul 03 01:56:35 haha fun. Jul 03 01:57:36 Well, I'm in Italy (GMT+1), but I thought that this could be a good time for people in Asia or in America. Jul 03 01:57:40 time discrepancies doesn't help a gps fix :P Jul 03 01:59:15 michelecs: some of us are in asia Jul 03 01:59:19 some in americas Jul 03 01:59:21 some in europe Jul 03 01:59:28 some of us just have strange waking hours Jul 03 01:59:35 heil! Jul 03 01:59:46 sometimes we just flip waking hours because we like to Jul 03 01:59:49 just like me, raster... Here it's 4.00 AM Jul 03 01:59:53 (code all night, sleep all day) Jul 03 02:00:32 <_ferric> where do I get FSO from? Jul 03 02:00:32 code all night, sleep all code Jul 03 02:01:13 code code code Jul 03 02:01:28 gprs gprs gprs Jul 03 02:01:38 * balrog-kun was once (indirectly) asked by his employer to not give opinions on OM publicly :p Jul 03 02:01:51 :P Jul 03 02:03:37 I want to build FSO for a different handheld. Jul 03 02:03:56 I figure I should start with MokoMakefile , but http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile reports, " You can also make the fso image, which probably requires a different GIT branch, but someone in the know needs to document what that is here..." Jul 03 02:04:06 What is the appropriate OM git branch for FSO? Jul 03 02:05:07 what is OM? Jul 03 02:05:13 balrog-kun: ^ Jul 03 02:05:31 OpenMoko I'm sure... Jul 03 02:05:33 Goddamn nighttime... Come back satellites! I need you! Jul 03 02:05:44 * ozzloy smacks his forehead Jul 03 02:05:45 _ferric, You can download it at http://downloads.openmoko.org/framework/milestone1/ Jul 03 02:05:54 i could have figured that one out Jul 03 02:13:18 quick question - what can the freerunner sync with at the present time? Jul 03 02:14:03 Nothing and everything. Jul 03 02:14:38 haha nice answer - not even evolution or something baking in the oven? Jul 03 02:14:38 There is nothing built in that will sync; but it's completely open so with a little work you can import and transfer all sorts of formats. Jul 03 02:15:17 It's still rather early in the software development Jul 03 02:15:21 are the contacts just held in a flat file then? Jul 03 02:15:48 Good question :) Jul 03 02:15:57 There are multiple software images for the device, the answer depends on the image. Jul 03 02:16:09 No, it's not flat, though. Jul 03 02:16:19 In fact, one image has no contacts at all yet. :) Jul 03 02:16:21 and if there is nothing to sync will it read as a drive or atleast have ssh loaded? Jul 03 02:16:53 ssh is standard, it also can do rsync, nfs, wget, curl, etc. Jul 03 02:17:29 hey all Jul 03 02:17:31 I think samba is in the feeds somewhere, so you might even be able to export your rootfs to your windows pc. Jul 03 02:17:37 if not a flat file what are they using for a db? Jul 03 02:17:50 haha windows :) Jul 03 02:18:15 * jeffszusz snickers and wonders which poor soul will have to use windows to interact with his Neo. Jul 03 02:18:22 I can't say exactly; you'd have to check the original 2007.2 image and the ASU image to see (I'm just hoping to make reliable phone calls). Jul 03 02:18:22 digitalslave: evolution i think Jul 03 02:18:41 there was something that used sqlite too Jul 03 02:18:57 I think the latter would be the ASU (qtopia-based) image... Jul 03 02:19:22 Eww :( Jul 03 02:19:26 is there a place that lists what the images have in them? Jul 03 02:19:39 ah yea, and OM2007.2 probably used evolution data server Jul 03 02:20:11 with ssh, the freerunner becomes a remote control for amarok running on my laptop hooked up to speakers Jul 03 02:20:20 hot Jul 03 02:20:30 ssh and wifi, that is Jul 03 02:21:21 ozzloy; a web page running on your laptop could trigger amarok commands Jul 03 02:21:27 one of the gsoc projects currently in progress is about bt remote controlling music or tv devices Jul 03 02:21:45 bring it up on your neo via wifi and you can have a simple GUI that way Jul 03 02:22:06 jeffszusz: ooOooh Jul 03 02:22:37 and put a login on that page Jul 03 02:22:51 ozzloy; that way, it also doubles as a music control you can use from another computer in the house, Jul 03 02:23:00 i read that the phone was debian based? Jul 03 02:23:01 jeffszusz: i like your style Jul 03 02:23:23 ozzly: i just wish i was at the point where i could code all of my ideas Jul 03 02:23:28 ozzloy* ratherrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Jul 03 02:24:51 is there an apt repo for apps? Jul 03 02:25:01 * mwester would love to have a mythtv remote on his neo. Jul 03 02:25:23 mythtv is already web based Jul 03 02:25:28 my firefox (and may be some other programs beside the one for kde) show all their icons, fileopening dialog and even the filemananger if launched through those programs from gnome, while i am using kde4. how do i tell them that i am usin kde not gnome Jul 03 02:25:31 Not apt; opkg (which is similar to dpkg) -- something one layer higher is in development. Jul 03 02:25:35 jeffszusz: not enough time? Jul 03 02:25:44 ozzloy: not enough talent/knowhow Jul 03 02:25:49 mwester, oh opkg nice Jul 03 02:25:52 my bad ..... i was posting on another place Jul 03 02:25:55 ozzloy: i'm working on it, though. slowly. Jul 03 02:26:07 jeffszusz: well i'll collaborate with you! Jul 03 02:26:21 except i have to go right now, just got a phone call Jul 03 02:26:27 lol Jul 03 02:26:29 jeffszusz: can i pm you? Jul 03 02:26:32 sure Jul 03 02:26:45 heh im going to have to stop hanging out here or ill never leave the house - be busy coding things ;) Jul 03 02:27:49 Ah, excellent, our campaign is succeeding then >:) Jul 03 02:27:59 haha Jul 03 02:28:01 lol Jul 03 02:28:43 course you guys would kill my bandwidth since my server is at home now although files size would be small enough heh Jul 03 02:29:03 no pair of hands can be wasted doing something other than coding Jul 03 02:30:09 LD Jul 03 02:30:12 Yay Jul 03 02:31:00 so is there a list of the basic operations that the device currently supports? Jul 03 02:31:14 or that applications have currently been written for? Jul 03 02:31:32 Organization? you're asking for organization??? Jul 03 02:31:51 Search for "roadmap" on the wiki... Jul 03 02:32:34 haha i dunno after a year i would imagine there would be phone and contacts ;) after following roundcube development i know thats definitely not the case Jul 03 02:33:37 Nope, the software stuff got off to a poor start, and got worse recently when someone (PHB) decided to invest 110% effort in an evolutionary dead-end (their words, not mine) call "ASU". Jul 03 02:33:39 oh my heart just went pitter patter with pidgin on the roadmap ;) Jul 03 02:34:48 mmm pidgin on my phone.... Jul 03 02:34:50 mwester, are you referring to the enlightenment change? what in ASU? Jul 03 02:35:06 Nothing wrong with enlightenment. Jul 03 02:35:26 no i liked it back in the day but a vast change Jul 03 02:35:39 ASU is attempting to use an experimental Qtopia on X to do the phone/dialer/contacts stuff. Jul 03 02:35:56 * raster hugs mwester Jul 03 02:35:58 mwester, why is that bad? Jul 03 02:36:18 Qtopia is a monolithic application that is closed to communications from other apps. Jul 03 02:36:58 ah, i agree in it's absolute suckage then. Jul 03 02:37:31 (but kind of works) Jul 03 02:37:45 why -is- it so hard to make the phone app work? Jul 03 02:37:46 so im assuming no sms yet? Jul 03 02:37:48 Qtopia on QT (the original stuff) is mature, fairly stable, and is the arch-traditional set of phone "stuff" -- but you need to add in C++ classes if you want to do anything to change it. It would have been (in MY opinion, which isn't worth that much) a good idea, except that the Qtopia on X version doesn't seem so stable. Jul 03 02:37:58 imho we should have just done some jihad on the at commandset handling of gsmd or replaced it outright with something smaller and simpler Jul 03 02:38:04 and stuck with the exiting gtk front-end apps Jul 03 02:38:09 SMS works (mostly) on ASU, and 2007.2 -- just not on the FSO image yet. Jul 03 02:38:11 and just done some ui overhauls on them Jul 03 02:38:24 (like replace unintelligible icons with text lables or icons that make sense) Jul 03 02:38:31 and a gtk theme thats fast/simple Jul 03 02:38:38 but thats just me Jul 03 02:38:48 management wanted qtopia because they liked it Jul 03 02:38:49 * mwester agrees with raster Jul 03 02:38:51 and it worked Jul 03 02:39:13 i would have only wanted the existing panel applets and today screen changed Jul 03 02:39:14 is qtopia a permanent direction or was it just a test? Jul 03 02:39:16 as thats up all the time Jul 03 02:39:17 and wm Jul 03 02:39:29 to something more integrated for launching/system status and "my desktop" Jul 03 02:39:31 but thats just me Jul 03 02:39:35 The investment of the same amount of energy on the original gtk image as is being wasted on the ASU would have us a lot farther ahead (although less "sexy"). Jul 03 02:39:35 agreed and the "mock up" desktop is what got everyone so jazzed about this phone and i see no dev even going in that direction even in the apps (albiet young in dev) Jul 03 02:39:35 keep the existing apps Jul 03 02:40:03 mwester: asu sint that sexy Jul 03 02:40:15 actually the only "sexy" bits are the e stuff.. and even that is heavily toned down Jul 03 02:40:25 exactly Jul 03 02:40:37 and that worked with the gtk app suite just as nicely Jul 03 02:40:39 Yeah, well, I want to be "kinda nice" to the folks working so hard on it... it's not bad. Jul 03 02:41:27 so what does sms works mostly really mean? Jul 03 02:41:29 And yes we could have done all the e stuff with gtk, and still be farther ahead. After all, who needs a sexy dialer? It just needs to work is all. Jul 03 02:41:39 yeah Jul 03 02:41:49 the dialler just needed work - wel not dialler Jul 03 02:41:49 you can make gtk sexy Jul 03 02:41:53 but address book and sms apps Jul 03 02:41:58 as the icons wer cryptic Jul 03 02:42:00 and a bit hard to use Jul 03 02:42:03 a little ui work Jul 03 02:42:05 and it'd be fine Jul 03 02:42:07 for daily use Jul 03 02:42:24 depending on the build, SMS messages may or may not work, has been my experience, and since none of the images has fully implemented suspend/resume, you tend to lose SMS that arrive while the unit is suspended. Jul 03 02:43:16 huh Jul 03 02:43:34 instead of suspending it, can't it go into a low-resource mode and just wait like a regular phone? Jul 03 02:44:20 hardware-wise it can (although not as well as some nokia hardware) Jul 03 02:44:20 generally nobody wants their phone to "go to sleep" Jul 03 02:44:22 they want calls Jul 03 02:44:23 That's how most other phones do it. There has been work on lowering the clock speed, but until we get suspend/resume working right, that's just going to confoose things. Jul 03 02:44:37 we really need "zero clock" Jul 03 02:44:39 but why have suspend/resume at all? Jul 03 02:44:39 ie dont suspend Jul 03 02:44:45 To save power. Jul 03 02:44:53 just put ram into refresh, power down specific devices explicitly if not needed Jul 03 02:44:57 and halt the cpu clock Jul 03 02:45:03 i can't imagine any time i'd want my phone to go into "suspend", since that would mean i would not receive calls Jul 03 02:45:03 that way wakup is nigh instant Jul 03 02:45:06 most the windows mobiles suspend/resume too i believe Jul 03 02:45:06 * mwester remembers the original "zero-clock" chip -- the 1802 Jul 03 02:45:09 this is what the n8xx does Jul 03 02:45:18 and it can get days of life Jul 03 02:45:56 jeffszusz: I think you misunderstand suspend -- in suspend the system sleeps, but wakes from an external interrupt -- such as the GSM telling the host CPU that it has data (SMS, or incoming call, or cell site change) Jul 03 02:46:11 hm Jul 03 02:46:11 like wake on lan Jul 03 02:46:39 i've never used wake on lan, so that may be why i misunderstand Jul 03 02:46:48 It doesn't do a full boot; but it's not instant (like zero-clock would be) Jul 03 02:47:00 my mac goes to sleep when i close it, and my previous experience with windows machines is "if it goes to sleep... you'll have to restart it when you try to wake it up anyway" Jul 03 02:47:08 i've never tried suspending linux Jul 03 02:47:16 Well that's the problem we have right now with the neos! Jul 03 02:47:27 lol Jul 03 02:47:30 haha we were talking about this yesterday haha i said the same thing but newer os have good results Jul 03 02:47:43 It's almost completely fixed; but the last little bugs are proving to be very difficult to track down. Jul 03 02:47:48 hm Jul 03 02:47:54 my ubuntu does a good job with it but id rather not use it heh Jul 03 02:48:10 so is the phone going to be ready any time in the near future? i thought it was shipping immediately Jul 03 02:48:17 in theory suspend/resume shoudl work fine Jul 03 02:48:26 as the gsm modem for example (And wifi) can remain powered up Jul 03 02:48:35 i am unsure of bluttooth here Jul 03 02:48:43 but as mwester sais - they can issue interrupts to wake the cpu Jul 03 02:48:46 yeah i mean theres no way i can dump my all in one phone for a neo if i cant get calls and sms - id die ;) Jul 03 02:48:49 they dont always do this or do it reliably Jul 03 02:48:57 ie we dont have their "sleep modes" right Jul 03 02:48:58 I think we still have the problem of no wakeup coming from bluetooth on the GTA02 Jul 03 02:49:12 ie "gsm - go to low power and just wake me when any of the following X, Y< Z happen" Jul 03 02:49:20 mwester: never checked on bt Jul 03 02:49:24 so cant confirm Jul 03 02:49:35 but the problem with suspend/resume is Jul 03 02:49:42 to go into suspend takes about 1 second Jul 03 02:49:48 and coming out of suspend is about 1 second+ Jul 03 02:49:53 Yep. Jul 03 02:49:57 Too long. Jul 03 02:49:58 as the kenrel oliterally shuts down all devices Jul 03 02:50:03 and goes through sa lot of housekeeping Jul 03 02:50:07 same on resume Jul 03 02:50:18 zero-clock would make that an order of < 100ms for wakeup Jul 03 02:50:24 hence why "suspend" isn't the best choice... Jul 03 02:50:29 more in the realm of 50ms or less Jul 03 02:50:30 i think Jul 03 02:50:35 whihc means u dotn suspend Jul 03 02:50:41 u just set memory to low-power refresh Jul 03 02:50:43 i wonder what happens under the hood on my mac when it goes to sleep. it ALWAYS wakes up perfect, and fast. Jul 03 02:50:55 jeffszusz: Yes, but since you can't do zero-clock on the S3C24xx chips, we're kinda stuck. Jul 03 02:50:56 raster: check these tmes agan with zhone FSO. it's WAY less than a second for suspend/resume Jul 03 02:50:56 1 second doesn't sound too bad - you wouldn't miss a call, would you? Jul 03 02:50:56 and MANUALLY turn off gfx chip, turn off audio or anything u dont NEED Jul 03 02:51:00 there are other s3c24xx based devices that wake up on order of 200ms under linux Jul 03 02:51:06 but also apps need to know to stop "polling" Jul 03 02:51:12 they ned to know to go into a deep sleep mode Jul 03 02:51:20 that emans all processes need to understand this zero-clock mode Jul 03 02:51:29 it's mostly the peripherls like audio, SD that take long Jul 03 02:51:37 Right Jul 03 02:51:37 jOERG_rw: i see about 1 second with asu Jul 03 02:51:48 from issuing suspend to thing finally doing it Jul 03 02:51:50 resume - the same Jul 03 02:52:01 qtopia actually pauses it for some time Jul 03 02:52:04 that can be 500ms maybe Jul 03 02:52:05 or more Jul 03 02:52:26 We're syncronous with *all* the kernel devices resuming before user-space starts -- it would ideal if we could let qtopia start (to process the gsm) before we worry about the SD card and the display and the audio... Jul 03 02:52:40 But there's a problem with that Jul 03 02:52:41 yeah Jul 03 02:52:52 u doint know what devices qtopia needs Jul 03 02:53:03 Yep. Jul 03 02:53:03 eg it wants audio to play a samnple "incoming call" Jul 03 02:53:14 Or to read something from the SD card... Jul 03 02:53:25 or it might want to read data form sd card (you have contact list on sd and the photo for the person is there to display on screen) Jul 03 02:53:25 etc. Jul 03 02:53:39 which means that we need the bus to the glamo and sd up and running before we dare to let qtopia run... Jul 03 02:53:53 yup Jul 03 02:54:09 Lotsa locks would help, along with many threads, but that's after you get the basics running, I think. Jul 03 02:55:10 <_ferric> ok, so, how do I get FSO? Jul 03 02:55:18 Right now though, I'd just like to get the GTA01 to resume correctly when it's booted from the SD card. :( Jul 03 02:55:33 is Qtopia permanent or just a test? i don't quite understand that little detail Jul 03 02:57:03 Qtopia as a product of Trolltech will be around for a long time, and there should be a full Qtopia image for the neo. ASU is just to get something working, and will probably be replaced by the FSO with (perhaps) some of the original 2007.2 gtk image gui stuff. Jul 03 02:57:08 jeffszusz: its for the forseeable future as that is what has been requested for us to implement Jul 03 02:57:50 that should be "Trolltech, a Nokia company" :) Jul 03 02:57:57 _ferric: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenmokoFramework/Status_Update_2 Jul 03 02:57:59 hah Jul 03 02:58:12 ljp: hahahaha Jul 03 02:58:20 mwester, i know Qtopia, i was just curious about whether it was a permanent part of openmoko Jul 03 02:58:23 ljp: :p Yeah, we should make sure everyone knows who to blame ;) Jul 03 02:58:34 hahaha Jul 03 02:58:42 jeffszusz: it will be a permanent replacement Jul 03 02:58:42 ljp: any idea when the sources will be back on line? Jul 03 02:58:49 mwester: last night Jul 03 02:58:59 Cool! Fast lawyers. Jul 03 02:59:11 and QA and testers Jul 03 02:59:25 Why were the sources offline? Jul 03 02:59:26 why is the "open phone" using a closed GUI? Jul 03 02:59:44 rtm: problems with licensing/copyright **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jul 03 02:59:57 2008