**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jul 06 02:59:56 2008 Jul 06 03:00:17 eleventy billion to be precise Jul 06 03:01:55 rtm_: I think it started at 500. Though I first saw it at 470. Jul 06 03:02:14 rtm_: that would make it 700 so far. Jul 06 03:02:41 eleventy billion sounds right Jul 06 03:03:40 You can't use eleventy for counting things like freerunners. Jul 06 03:03:53 They aren't eggs, or sausages! Jul 06 03:04:06 I heard that roughly 5000 neo1973s sold in total. Jul 06 03:04:08 you're right, they're both Jul 06 03:04:31 rtm_: whoa. Jul 06 03:04:47 so only a tenth of freerunners have been sold in the first 2 days. Jul 06 03:05:04 why don't they tell us anything these FIC peoples. Jul 06 03:06:48 still waiting for mine to knock on my door Jul 06 03:07:08 UPS needs same day delivery :) Jul 06 03:07:32 ... at a affordable price Jul 06 03:08:25 haha Jul 06 03:09:48 where can I get a debian package of openmoko development toolchain? Jul 06 03:12:07 oh, 1/10 of available freerunners are sold? Jul 06 03:12:23 Drakeson: no Jul 06 03:12:28 Drakeson: mokomakefile Jul 06 03:12:44 is there no debian package of that? Jul 06 03:13:13 no, the mokomakefile is a wrapper around everything you need Jul 06 03:13:28 so the number of 900mhz models produced is less than 1/10?!! Jul 06 03:13:28 crap Jul 06 03:14:59 smhar: don't assume that the first batch is 5000 Jul 06 03:15:13 drake: Jul 06 03:17:01 ? Jul 06 03:18:04 Drakeson the toolchain and all assorted libs are not really that static that packaging and submitting them upstream into distros makes sense. Jul 06 03:18:34 Drakeson its more important that mokomakefile does reproduce the same result on all distros Jul 06 03:19:12 in the end thats more of an OE issue but yeah. we do not want only debian to be a supported platform. why exclude anybody? Jul 06 03:19:39 I still don't get it. Jul 06 03:19:58 including debian is excluding others? Jul 06 03:20:27 no. but putting so much effort in to get packages (which would change often) would limit the time one has to get it working everywhere Jul 06 03:21:32 doesnt make too much sense.. there is the packaged toolchain as tarball which is a 'target' in the OE build-tree one can set up with mokomakefile. so either one can build the whole enchilada or only use the toolchain (disto independant as tarball) Jul 06 03:22:19 of somebody would do all the work to package the toolchain for various distros that would be nice, of course. Jul 06 03:22:42 well, to be honest, the reason me, and some people I know use debian packages for almost everything is that debian packages have some unwritten guarantee to at least install and work properly. Jul 06 03:23:16 last time I checked, (about 3-4 month ago) there was a problem that prevented the toolchain to be built. Jul 06 03:24:00 I will read a bit more, is this the correct place to look at --> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain Jul 06 03:24:06 if its from the debian archive its effectively carrying an install guarantee. if tis from a 3rd party there is no guaratnee Jul 06 03:24:07 *sp Jul 06 03:24:11 i think so Jul 06 03:24:47 Kamping_Kaiser: yes, I was hoping that such an important package get into debian and ubuntu repositories. Jul 06 03:25:04 Heh, Kaiser. Jul 06 03:25:26 Drakeson, feel free to file an ITP.... Jul 06 03:25:28 that way it is ensured that many people can easily install and use the toolchain "hassle-free" Jul 06 03:26:30 but if there is reason preventing that to happen, then it is a different issue. Jul 06 03:28:52 Drakeson to get into debian one would need a stable release first Jul 06 03:29:07 there is no stable release atm, so debian is somehow out of the picture Jul 06 03:29:37 for some value of stable Jul 06 03:30:30 yeah.. most of the time 'so stable its already nearly unsupported by maintainers and stale' Jul 06 03:30:34 there are packages that are in sid that are simply svn snapshots Jul 06 03:30:40 there are several packages pulled directly from cvs or git repositories in debian unstable. Jul 06 03:31:13 don't get me wrong.. we use debian ourselves here at OM, or ubuntu.. but sometimes debian really annoys me with its policies and stubbornness Jul 06 03:34:02 so, to summarize, is the toolchain stable enough for normal usage? Jul 06 03:35:38 I think a new debian stable is coming, debconf is next month, so soon after that, I hope Jul 06 03:38:06 angasule: are you talking about openmoko toolchain in debian? Jul 06 03:38:20 I'm talking about debian Jul 06 03:38:39 debconf is taking place in mar del plata, argentina, the first two weeks of august Jul 06 03:39:09 iirc freeze was meant to be october, very much iirc Jul 06 03:40:14 quite likely, but I bet a lot is going to happen at debconf, I'll be there :D Jul 06 03:40:43 :( bastard [i wnot be] Jul 06 03:42:33 well, I live close by, so it's easy for me to go Jul 06 03:42:48 where is it this year? Jul 06 03:43:17 mar del plata, argentina Jul 06 03:43:39 cool. Jul 06 03:43:39 it's not far from buenos aires Jul 06 03:43:57 yeap Jul 06 03:44:05 would have been better in the summer, more bikinis :) Jul 06 03:44:12 more girls in bikinis, that is Jul 06 03:44:24 hehehehe Jul 06 03:44:34 probably a good thing its winter then ;) Jul 06 03:45:33 oh, well, there is always the chance a heat wave will hit mar del plata just in time :P Jul 06 03:46:30 * Kamping_Kaiser will stay here and freeze his but off while you lot have fun then Jul 06 03:46:44 oki, I'll send a postcard :P Jul 06 03:47:38 :P Jul 06 03:49:02 :P Jul 06 03:50:57 * ferric yawns. Jul 06 03:53:18 * Dave moos Jul 06 03:56:14 is the toolkit, and the example in it working? Jul 06 03:56:26 *toolchain Jul 06 03:57:16 I just tried to build openmoko-sample2 according to the wiki, and it just faild in `make'. Jul 06 03:58:08 Drakeson its stable enough to use it, but not stable enough to reasonably get a version into debian before it gets obsoleted. Jul 06 03:58:25 by a new 'version' Jul 06 03:58:50 also i think opkg and a bit of native stuff would need to get packaged then also i guess Jul 06 04:07:04 * wurp2|away pokes ferric Jul 06 04:07:43 mwester: Are you about? Jul 06 04:11:29 Drakeson, paste the error in rafb.net/paste Jul 06 04:12:04 Drakeson, make 2>error.txt Jul 06 04:13:46 * ferric jumps Jul 06 04:13:50 que pasa, mi amiho? Jul 06 04:21:34 :p Jul 06 04:29:34 ferric: Sorry, I should have checked back more often! Jul 06 04:30:23 Does anyone know if I change the OM_GIT_BRANCH in MokoMakefile, do I need to clean & build, or will a regular build figure out which files need updating? Jul 06 04:30:57 Hmm, I'm guessing I needed to clean, since running the build again did nothing :-( Jul 06 04:49:32 Hey, Anyone aware of an Australian bulk order? Jul 06 04:51:59 MrShlee: Did you try google site:wiki.openmoko.org australia? Jul 06 04:52:06 The wiki's search sucks Jul 06 04:52:45 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales Jul 06 04:53:02 wurp2|away: Bingo Jul 06 04:53:17 and I've added myself to the list ;) Jul 06 04:53:29 cool :-) Jul 06 04:55:03 hello, i've tried the FSO inside qemu...but the command sendkey ctrl-alt-f1 doesn't work...how do i get a console? Jul 06 04:55:20 is there a way to install the openmoko on an imate pda ppc? Jul 06 04:55:21 Gnutoo: Start up a terminal program Jul 06 04:55:34 nighthawk06: I don't think so Jul 06 04:55:45 Google for openembedded with your HW Jul 06 04:55:48 wurp2|away, there is no terminal program in FSO... Jul 06 04:57:08 my device is analog to HTC-Harmoni,. but on openembeded there is only installation to HTC-Universal,. I tried installing it on my device without any success... Jul 06 04:57:25 Gnutoo: Nope, there isn't Jul 06 04:57:35 That's why we're starting up SHR Jul 06 04:57:49 do you know whethere there is a group that is working on an installation to openembeded imate pda ppc? Jul 06 04:57:57 nighthawk06: Then I think you're in for a long porting project Jul 06 04:58:05 nighthawk06: Sorry, nope :-( Jul 06 04:58:37 HTC-Harmoni... is that even a real device? 0.o Jul 06 04:58:52 so I am running a tightvncviewer and wine in linux and it works beautifully Jul 06 04:59:02 no high cpu useage or anything Jul 06 04:59:07 Installing updates? how hard will it be to do? if i have the phone in a week how will i update? Jul 06 04:59:25 Railer: Probably by burning a new image, the first time Jul 06 04:59:29 swc: The HTC-Harmoni is a real device, it is compatiable with the imate ppc... Jul 06 04:59:51 opkg upgrade is easy to do, but it can break important apps if you do it at the wrong time Jul 06 05:00:25 what is the HTC-Harmoni also known as? Jul 06 05:00:49 what do you mean by burning the first time? Jul 06 05:01:01 there are different devices on the list of HTC-Harmoni,. all I know is following to my check that my device is in that list.. Jul 06 05:01:17 wurp2|away, so why ctrl+alt+f1 doesn't work? Jul 06 05:01:36 Gnutoo: Because the device doesn't have a keyboard Jul 06 05:01:51 i've had nearly every htc device and have never heard of the HTC-Harmoni Jul 06 05:02:09 So I would guess that support for c-a-f1 wasn't important, since it is never meaningful on the device Jul 06 05:02:17 wurp2|away, i plan to use a usb keyboard(i need to find the cable) for games,ssh... Jul 06 05:02:33 wurp2|away, will SHR support keyboard? Jul 06 05:03:01 Gnutoo: Hmm, good point... it should Jul 06 05:03:10 Gnutoo: I've never used a usb kbd on it, just bt Jul 06 05:03:23 wurp2|away, ok Jul 06 05:03:53 Gnutoo: Really, I should be able to put a listener for a bt-kbd in an init.d daemon & use a kbd on fso Jul 06 05:04:17 Gnutoo: Actually, the keyboard support should be in all the releases Jul 06 05:04:24 Like, right now Jul 06 05:04:36 You have to switch your usb into host mode Jul 06 05:05:30 so has anyone tested usb host mode with an external USB wifi card on the FR? Jul 06 05:05:55 swc|666: You'd need to port a driver Jul 06 05:06:33 wurp2|away: i realize that... i'm going to run Debian mostly via microsd, but i'm just wondering if anyone has done so yet at all Jul 06 05:06:38 its possible to hook multiple devices via usb hub to open moko right? Jul 06 05:06:47 swc|666: Not afaik Jul 06 05:06:49 wurp2|away, the problem is also that i would need to find the cable because i think i can handle patching and cross-compiling the kernel Jul 06 05:06:55 goodwill: Sure Jul 06 05:07:08 goodwill: And that's a good way to put devices that need more power on it Jul 06 05:07:10 goodwill: yes - but a limited number - IIRC the SoC only supports a limited number of endpoints. Jul 06 05:07:49 Gnutoo: Offhand, I'd think a regular mini-b to usb converter, plus a male-to-male converter, would do the trick Jul 06 05:08:12 must sleep Jul 06 05:08:15 really away :-) Jul 06 05:08:18 wurp2|away, ok bye Jul 06 05:08:22 wurp2|away, thanks Jul 06 05:08:26 yw :-) Jul 06 05:09:50 The package signature URLs (wg., http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/all/Packages.sig) are no longer available. Any replacements for the same? Jul 06 05:26:13 hmm.. how do i flash the qemu image w/ the fr images? Jul 06 05:28:57 SpeedEvil: what the number? Jul 06 05:29:14 goodwill: ? Jul 06 05:29:46 Oh - 290. Jul 06 05:37:47 pardon my ignorance, FSO and ASU stand for what? Jul 06 05:40:28 freesmartphone.org and april software update Jul 06 05:40:41 macdonalder, http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ Jul 06 05:41:21 ahhh thanks :) Jul 06 05:42:21 anybody have one of the invisibleshield covers? i'm curious how well it works, and if it impairs the touchscreen at all Jul 06 05:44:45 so iphone 3g whats the 3g stand for? Jul 06 05:46:07 generation? Jul 06 05:46:18 ya never mind Jul 06 05:46:57 wikipadia is funny it states 3g is between 2g and 4g Jul 06 05:47:00 I though 3g adoptions is still kinda meh Jul 06 05:47:15 sounds like it Jul 06 05:47:25 not in !north america Jul 06 05:47:26 att has 3g in most metro markets in the US Jul 06 05:47:48 "better" spectral efficiency Jul 06 05:48:06 rather go wifi Jul 06 05:48:11 euro 3g is better though methinks... datarates are ~600-700kbit on att and tmobile 3g with hspda Jul 06 05:49:35 I can get a solid 1mbps with AT&T HSPDA Jul 06 05:49:38 here in the city Jul 06 05:49:52 the city being? Jul 06 05:49:59 Bellevue, WA Jul 06 05:50:06 (USA) Jul 06 05:50:21 IIRC, in parts of london, you can get 7mbps Jul 06 05:50:31 nice Jul 06 05:50:31 (england) Jul 06 05:50:32 i dunno, my friends with att 3g on n95s get 600-700kbit with high latency Jul 06 05:50:40 7.2 per the marketing :) Jul 06 05:50:41 heh Jul 06 05:50:47 not gonna happen here :) Jul 06 05:51:10 well the technology supports over 10... they're just restricting you Jul 06 05:51:11 yeah the latency is very high here too Jul 06 05:51:15 just watching cnet tv and the 1 hour iphone infomercial Jul 06 05:51:24 it's still good enough for streaming video and such Jul 06 05:51:40 any real time media sucks over it Jul 06 05:51:48 like ssh Jul 06 05:51:50 or whateve Jul 06 05:52:01 bounce back takes too long Jul 06 05:52:13 carrar: there are technical reasons for that. Jul 06 05:52:17 however better then nothing Jul 06 05:52:32 carrar: Namely that they don't want people doing VOIP. Jul 06 05:52:32 yeah, it's good for throughput, not latency Jul 06 05:52:39 yeah Jul 06 05:53:29 So many free wifi places here if you are in a area that does HSPDA you can probably find a wifi spot that is better Jul 06 05:53:41 hundreds of thousands Jul 06 05:54:12 7 starbucks within walking distance of my place Jul 06 05:54:17 well, one of my friend commutes between san jose and san francisco on a train... he just tethers his phone to his laptop and sits online for the hour ride Jul 06 05:54:19 all of them with free wifi Jul 06 05:54:30 stupidly the train gives you a power outlet, but no wifi Jul 06 05:54:36 heh Jul 06 05:55:31 has anyone tried titchy yet? http://charlie137-2.blogspot.com/2008/07/introducing-tichy.html Jul 06 05:56:22 3g and tether gets expensive, thats where I see FR taking over in a year forcing a opening of phone system world wide Jul 06 05:58:20 unlimited data plans are affordable here Jul 06 05:58:38 ieatlint: where? Jul 06 05:58:43 the US Jul 06 05:58:55 ieatlint: what plans are affordable? Jul 06 05:59:23 canada! land of the gsm monopoly Jul 06 05:59:27 tmobile has a $20 option... gprs/edge/hspda (hspda is available in like nyc only though, expanding to all major markets by new year) Jul 06 05:59:28 anyone knows Guillaume irc nickname is Jul 06 05:59:49 even get a routable ip if you request it for no extra cost Jul 06 05:59:58 ieatlint: really? tmobile has a 20$ a month unlimited plan Jul 06 06:00:01 odd Jul 06 06:00:11 for data as an add-on to voice plans, yes Jul 06 06:00:14 I should check for that Jul 06 06:00:20 hmmm Jul 06 06:00:27 $40 for data only i think Jul 06 06:00:27 you want to see our canada plans Jul 06 06:00:32 thats good, I was looking into tmobile Jul 06 06:00:36 Railer: are they good? Jul 06 06:00:59 well, their 3g is a bitch Jul 06 06:01:27 even if you have it, only 2 phones seem to support it, and neither of the two support hspda Jul 06 06:01:43 (they have their own 3g bands separate from att and the rest of the world) Jul 06 06:01:59 some sort of 1700/2100 hybrid Jul 06 06:02:51 they suck Jul 06 06:02:53 http://your.rogers.com/business/wireless/plans_services/business_plans.asp?plan=dataservice&cat=2&typ=2 Jul 06 06:03:49 yeah, that's pretty shitty Jul 06 06:04:08 no unlimited, and that's JUST the dta Jul 06 06:04:20 you still need a phone plan Jul 06 06:04:29 mbuf: How can the downloaded packages be prevented from being cached in the flash? Jul 06 06:05:01 rishi, i have not done "opkg update" Jul 06 06:05:06 Ok Jul 06 06:05:48 for developing on the FR, do people recommend using xoo or what? Jul 06 06:09:52 ieatlint: not really clear yet Jul 06 06:10:10 ieatlint: like titchy just runs in pygame Jul 06 06:11:59 hi Jul 06 06:12:03 I am guillaume Jul 06 06:12:11 charlie137 Jul 06 06:17:31 charlie137: hi Jul 06 06:17:44 charlie137: I've been attempting to compile titchy Jul 06 06:17:52 ah yes Jul 06 06:17:59 i saw your comment on my blog :) Jul 06 06:18:04 charlie137: and I error out. Jul 06 06:18:10 charlie137: any advice? Jul 06 06:18:21 the problem : you need cython 0.9.6.14 Jul 06 06:18:27 I saw the same thing b4 Jul 06 06:18:42 ok Jul 06 06:19:00 you are trying to compile it for OM ? Jul 06 06:19:35 no Jul 06 06:19:38 686 Jul 06 06:19:59 well, if you run it on a desktop computer, no real need to compile Jul 06 06:20:00 getting ming next week Jul 06 06:20:04 I know Jul 06 06:20:09 I just want to be able to Jul 06 06:20:13 yes :) Jul 06 06:20:14 for om later Jul 06 06:21:29 hmm latest cython is 9.8 Jul 06 06:21:31 it is quite tricky to make it work on om, because : Jul 06 06:21:31 * need to comile using the toolchain Jul 06 06:21:31 * need to install pygame in the OM Jul 06 06:21:31 * sdl on the framebuffer doesn't work (some resolution problem), so you need to specify x11 as a backend Jul 06 06:21:48 well, I guess cython 9.8 should be fine Jul 06 06:21:58 (I hope :O ) Jul 06 06:22:01 hehee Jul 06 06:22:05 why pygame? Jul 06 06:22:22 pygame is the SDL wrapper for python Jul 06 06:22:31 so not really related to games in fact Jul 06 06:22:40 the name is very misleading Jul 06 06:22:58 even though most people who use SDL do it for games Jul 06 06:23:27 also, they have the package in OE Jul 06 06:23:28 ok, thats a bad name you are right Jul 06 06:24:25 still, pygame is a very good wrapper, and you can use it with C code using SDL Jul 06 06:24:53 does SDL perform well on OM? Jul 06 06:24:57 yes Jul 06 06:25:12 except that it has to use x11 Jul 06 06:25:23 but that is a bug of the framebuffer driver Jul 06 06:25:44 it should be possible to make it work with the framebuffer = direct access to the screen pixels Jul 06 06:26:00 I am not a fan of framebuffer Jul 06 06:26:04 you can't beat SDL for the speed, it is almost the lowest lever Jul 06 06:26:17 well, SDL works fine with x11 Jul 06 06:26:26 :) Jul 06 06:26:30 *level Jul 06 06:26:32 thank you, I Jul 06 06:26:32 so the france distributer only uses paypal and the india one only use cheques and money transfer... what happened to credit card option? Jul 06 06:27:02 smhar: you can use a cc thru paypal I think... Jul 06 06:34:34 ordering from France will it will take 6-8 weeks to ship and will cost me BD257.12 while from openmoko webstore it will be BD186.910 a difference of BD70.21 or $186.612 or Eur118.782 Jul 06 06:40:51 somebody pinch me Jul 06 06:45:23 charlie137: what linux distro do you run? Jul 06 06:48:40 charlie137: it compiled nicely with cython 0.9.8 Jul 06 06:48:48 * ozzloy pinches niklauz Jul 06 06:52:00 charlie137: however it does not seem to actually work. Jul 06 06:52:10 charlie137: ---> 22 from .image import Image Jul 06 06:52:20 cobject.Object does not appear to be the correct type object Jul 06 06:52:37 I'll try cython 0.9.6.14 Jul 06 06:54:10 BD? bahrein dollar? Jul 06 06:55:39 does anyone have any details on ordering the freerunner in the US? Jul 06 06:56:11 what kind of details? Jul 06 06:56:20 the recommended website www.fica.com doesn't even load Jul 06 06:56:25 roh, Bahrain Dinars: 1 BHD = 2.65791 USD = 1.69181 EUR : http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert.cgi Jul 06 06:56:26 i purchased from the om.com store Jul 06 06:57:01 where should i order from, and when i order the phone do i get the laser pointer et. al. or do i need to get the acc. pack for that? Jul 06 06:57:03 smhar ah.. i see. interresting to know. didnt know that currency before Jul 06 06:58:08 i don't see much about shipping times. Jul 06 06:58:24 niklauz: order from www.openmoko.com Jul 06 06:58:33 roh, The dinar is used in other countries as well, ie. Kuwait and Jurdan, Iraq, but differnt dinars ofcourse :-) Jul 06 06:58:50 rumour has it, openmoko.com orders ship monday, july 7 Jul 06 06:59:02 from california Jul 06 06:59:09 smhar does it float or does it track some other value or currency? Jul 06 06:59:20 wurp2|away: ok, do you know if the base package comes with the laser pointer and the tote bag, or do i need to purchase them seperately? Jul 06 06:59:27 roh, we are a dollar state, when the dollar sinks we sink Jul 06 06:59:48 i see.. so the euro gets more expensive, right? Jul 06 06:59:51 roh, and lately we are touching the ground deep under :-( Jul 06 06:59:55 i hope it ships monday. i paid for shipping according to that rumor Jul 06 07:00:02 niklauz, the laser pointer comes with, as supplies last.. the tote comes with the 10 packs, otherwise you need the "spares pack" to get it Jul 06 07:00:23 k thx ieatlint Jul 06 07:00:50 last i heard, the initial shipment all get the laser pointer, and there were something like 140 left to sell earlier today Jul 06 07:00:55 how many of you all are hackers? I'm wondering cuz I'm a foss enthusiast, but not a hacker Jul 06 07:00:58 so odds are, if you order soon, you'll get it Jul 06 07:00:59 roh, my hope is that om will start offering the 900mhz models soon directly from its webstore Jul 06 07:01:06 i wonder if i'll be able to do much with it at first Jul 06 07:01:39 o and also, the 850mHz is correct for US right? Jul 06 07:01:39 smhar heh.. dunno what the sales plans are there... you could try getting a hold on steve or harry via mail. Jul 06 07:01:49 yes Jul 06 07:01:52 niklauz: i'd put myself somewhere inbetween enthusiast and hacker at the moment. i hope to dev for it. Jul 06 07:01:55 I'm so flustered, i'll been waiting a long time to get one, lol Jul 06 07:01:57 niklauz, short answer is yes Jul 06 07:02:38 ieatlint: so if i order now I'll probably get it, but maybe not, lol Jul 06 07:02:45 have we learned nothing hahah Jul 06 07:02:58 i don't make promises for things i have absolutely no control over :P Jul 06 07:02:58 smhar on the long run i think it would be nice to have a distributor step up for that region (but that will only happen when the sw is really 'end-user-proof'), given that you do not stay the only one who wants one Jul 06 07:03:04 but from what i understand, you'll get it Jul 06 07:03:30 ya, i'm just losing it. I don't really need any additional motivation to order now Jul 06 07:05:28 roh, the other thing is the language. while in Bahrain and the Gulf region english is widely spoken, Arabic is the language of most of the useless SMSs people send, and most will require arabic read/write support before they think of Freedom :-( Jul 06 07:06:18 smhar yeah. but thats a generic problem, which is solvable with opensource components. Jul 06 07:06:49 after all pango and colleagues can render rtl as well as ltr quite a while.. Jul 06 07:08:42 should be translation-work only in gtk apps.. efl doesnt have rtl support atm afaik (not sure tho) Jul 06 07:13:17 roh, translation will not be a problem, I can volenteer for that, and any other thing short of actual coding... I am not there yet :-) Jul 06 07:13:55 just pretend you are and silence anyone who asks you about memory leaks... it's what i do Jul 06 07:14:16 he he Jul 06 07:15:23 so all those those times I was being told so about memory leaks were .....!! Jul 06 07:17:45 smhar well.. first the apps must be complete and debugged enough to make internationalisation efforts make sense. Jul 06 07:18:22 but thats for the offer.. i hope youre still there when we are that far ;) Jul 06 07:19:20 what shipping did u all use? Jul 06 07:20:10 i guess the concensus is that shipping starts monday? Jul 06 07:20:15 roh, I do not mind little waiting and sucrifice for the sake of more Freedom, and do not worry, I will always be there... here Jul 06 07:20:57 niklauz: i ordered ground, since typically stuff from northern ca get here in about 3 days Jul 06 07:21:29 roh, infact once I finish learning php and mysql (the basics) which I started already.. I will start learning python to help in prodocing more applications for FR Jul 06 07:21:41 ;) Jul 06 07:22:10 i only know that much php i need to keep it working and get some replacement in another language in place Jul 06 07:22:45 yeah.. knowing real python further than hacking stuff up would be good (more and more webapps we use at om are python) Jul 06 07:22:51 i'm getting an error on ordering that says "error from Hi Trust gateway" anyone seen this? Jul 06 07:24:47 yeah, most likely your CC company blocking it since it's a company in taiwan. try calling your CC company and then reorder. Jul 06 07:26:25 * niklauz sheds a tear Jul 06 07:29:58 something i've wondered about for a while, how does the OM stack (lets say FSO) relate to LiMo ? Are they seemless compliments, do they comete in any way? Jul 06 07:33:43 anyone on have a freerunner with the FSO update? Jul 06 07:33:53 I am refreshing the websore every 10 minutes in the hope of getting the 900mhz models as soon are they are availble fearing they would be sold out .. it would be nice of openmoko people atlease give us an estimate of availablity date/time.. who knows.. I could be refreshing the page for weeks :-) Jul 06 07:33:59 i'm wondering about the practical functinality at present Jul 06 07:34:51 smhar: :-D Jul 06 07:35:10 niklauz: when i ordered the FR, the order was blocked, then my cc company called me to confirm Jul 06 07:35:25 niklauz: download an image and run in qemu? (I never succeeded to run the ASU on qemu yet :) ) Jul 06 07:36:00 niklauz: after that i redid the order and it went through. they were suspicious because it was a company in taiwan, to confirm what nullpuppy said Jul 06 07:36:42 how long after you placed the order did you get the call? Jul 06 07:37:11 10 minutes? wells fargo visa check card Jul 06 07:37:25 hot damn! Jul 06 07:37:57 well it's 3:30am here, i hope i hear from them in the morning or at least some time today Jul 06 07:38:15 niklauz: east coast-ish? Jul 06 07:38:24 ya EST Jul 06 07:38:25 niklauz: maybe they have people 24/7 awake Jul 06 07:39:17 i hope so... Jul 06 07:40:02 my order went through, but wamu called like 10-20min later to confirm it Jul 06 07:43:51 niklauz it does phone calls (fso milestone1) Jul 06 07:44:25 nothing else.. only a dialer, no phonebook, no sms, no other ui apps reachable (besides a half-complete input-method experiment) Jul 06 07:45:05 its asks for a pin, can be rung, and call other phones. 1 call at a time (multiple call handling and other stuff like phonebook or sms are in later milestones) Jul 06 07:45:22 have you played with it directly? Jul 06 07:45:38 http://trac.freesmartphone.org:8000/trac-example/roadmap?show=all Jul 06 07:45:52 jap. here on freerunner prototype#85 Jul 06 07:47:20 roh: i read about that stuff, I was wondering about battery life and reception, other related stuffs Jul 06 07:47:42 considering how easy sms support is with the modem AT commands, how can it not support it at all? Jul 06 07:50:43 btw for milestone 4 (http://trac.freesmartphone.org:8000/trac-example/milestone/milestone4) anyone know whwat GSoC integration means? Jul 06 07:50:55 I mean that looks like Google Summer of Code to me....? Jul 06 07:51:53 jap Jul 06 07:52:56 https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2008#Accepted_Ideas Jul 06 07:53:36 i couldn't access that page actually.. oh, self signed cert issue Jul 06 07:54:43 or expired, nm --- viewable here as well (http://code.google.com/soc/2008/openmoko/about.html) Jul 06 07:54:53 these are all brilliant Jul 06 07:56:28 roh, do u know how the LiMo and OM projects relate to each otehr? Jul 06 08:12:14 niklauz not really... but afaik the answer is 'not really' Jul 06 08:13:10 limo and lipo or what it was called merged recently.. but besides 'carriers talking' nothing happens Jul 06 08:13:53 atleast nothing which would help customers anything or get usable opensource written Jul 06 08:15:01 it seems like limo is squarely aimed at carriers and handset makers, but they are also advertising an api Jul 06 08:15:40 "Q: Will LiMo’s code and/or APIs be made available to non-members? If so, when?" "A:All code and APIs will be made available to non-members once it is sufficiently vetted and tested." Jul 06 08:15:56 i hope there can be collaboration between all parties, otherwise they will lose Jul 06 08:16:05 i hate to see them lose all the effort Jul 06 08:16:08 hello, how do i enable the power saving feature in 2007.2? Jul 06 08:19:31 niklauz to be fair, i do not anticipate limo to bring anything which one would want to use Jul 06 08:21:18 they are about carriers keeping their revenue, not getting technology more useful to the user. means anticipate lock-ins everywhere, limits which interfaces one can use for data transfer etc. Jul 06 08:21:31 and "A:All code and APIs will be made available to non-members once it is sufficiently Jul 06 08:21:53 vetted and tested." does not mean anything but 'get stuff served and do not ask for anything more Jul 06 08:22:09 not 'speak up and lets discuss how we want to do this' Jul 06 08:25:28 roh, you're probably right though there is so much work to do they almost can't help but do something useful Jul 06 08:26:45 in the case they do, i hope the work is transferable since it's in everyone's best interest Jul 06 08:27:07 Om just left Jul 06 08:27:57 i do not see that stuff like lock-ins or mms ever were 'in everyone's best interest' Jul 06 08:28:35 lol, ya but u know what i mean Jul 06 08:46:56 hello :) Jul 06 08:47:06 Yo. Jul 06 09:28:52 guys, has anyone tried the gestures ipk? Jul 06 09:29:11 instructions were in GSoC Acc-based Gestures Update 6.1 on the devel-list Jul 06 09:31:39 https://projects.openmoko.org/frs/?group_id=131 Jul 06 09:39:38 ccfly, i found out how you can get the numbers. just use the stylus and move it on the right side of the keyboard down and up again Jul 06 09:55:12 Hi everyone! Jul 06 09:55:33 * niklauz waves Jul 06 09:55:37 Hi doctor Nick.. I mean ChaosEagle Jul 06 09:55:42 LOL Jul 06 09:55:51 * ChaosEagle got his freerunner yesterday =) Jul 06 09:56:01 when did you order? Jul 06 09:56:09 erm... last Friday Jul 06 09:56:14 @Pulster Jul 06 09:56:26 was lucky to get one from the first batch, though Jul 06 09:56:39 Wha!?! you got your FR in 1 day? Jul 06 09:56:53 oh, no, not THAT last Friday, sorry! Jul 06 09:57:09 lol, o ok, what shipping did you chose? Jul 06 09:57:13 the one before that - June 27th Jul 06 09:57:21 Nachnahme ^^ Jul 06 09:57:42 I think there weren't any more shipment options, really... just the form of payment Jul 06 09:58:57 Does anyone have an idea of how to get gps up and running with the 2007.2-image? Jul 06 09:59:36 ChaosEagle: neo1973 or Freerunner? Jul 06 09:59:41 Freerunner, rtm Jul 06 10:00:05 ChaosEagle: Sorry, my Freerunner hasn't arrived yet. Jul 06 10:00:15 never mind, thanks anyway =) Jul 06 10:00:33 pvborza, i did Jul 06 10:01:05 ChaosEagle: when u got your FR did it have 2007.2 ASU or FSO on it? Jul 06 10:01:22 2007.2 Jul 06 10:01:57 But I already gave ASU a try, but have gone back to 2007.2 for now Jul 06 10:07:07 Hey there. Jul 06 10:19:55 Sup3rkiddo: sorry, wasn't at the computer. what do you think? Jul 06 10:22:00 pvborza, its interesting :D, i was just wondering, do you do some math with the values from event2,3.....they give a constant stream don't they? Jul 06 10:22:51 yes, the accels keep sending reports on and on Jul 06 10:23:30 I'll have to add a --verbose flag, so that one could see the decoded states of the acceleration sequence Jul 06 10:24:10 Sup3rkiddo: did it recognize the gestures correctly? Jul 06 10:24:25 pvborza, yeah i do get activity Jul 06 10:24:44 pvborza, you said, the training sets were generated with wii..... Jul 06 10:25:21 thank you Wiedi Jul 06 10:25:24 only for the classifier, as I didn't have time to change that for the Neo and I wanted to get a release done Jul 06 10:25:36 the gestures aren't trained at all Jul 06 10:25:48 they're just with my initial estimates from the Neo Jul 06 10:26:43 Sup3rkiddo: I'll be working on a GUI for the training of the gestures for the Neo this week Jul 06 10:27:12 Sup3rkiddo: till now, I've always used a console app to do the training Jul 06 10:27:46 pvborza, i see...gui would be nice.... Jul 06 10:28:32 Sup3rkiddo: it's necessary, and it's one of the requirements in the GSoC proposal Jul 06 10:29:30 pvborza, yeah, i saw your app..;), do you think it will be good to provide a device control plugin for accels Jul 06 10:29:41 ( if at all its possible ) Jul 06 10:30:11 Sup3rkiddo: what do you mean by device control plugin? Jul 06 10:31:06 pvborza, you know a dbus interface, like shuttig it down, when not in use Jul 06 10:32:02 Sup3rkiddo: oh yes, anyone will be able to communicate with gesd through dbus; but that will be done after the GUI training app is ready Jul 06 10:32:45 Sup3rkiddo: seems like everybody wants that - gestures with dbus Jul 06 10:33:42 pvborza, right....:D, i guess when ousaged is mature, it will be cool if use use that Jul 06 10:35:46 I think I don't have any imagination.. What are the use-cases for gestures? When will people use them? Jul 06 10:36:08 ebbe, games, profile switching Jul 06 10:36:30 Sup3rkiddo: Profile switching? Jul 06 10:36:49 ebbe, you know, switching profiles based on the position of the FR Jul 06 10:36:52 But games of course. How could I forget Jul 06 10:37:24 like switching on the vibrator if you have the device in your pockets Jul 06 10:37:39 Isn't that hard to detect? Jul 06 10:37:59 seemingly yeah, pvborza would be the right person to answer that Jul 06 10:38:08 here are some ideas http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gestures Jul 06 10:39:53 here are is my thesis, http://www.borza.ro/index.php/2008/07/03/read-my-bachelors-thesis/ Jul 06 10:40:33 pvborza, is there any way you can think of to switch off the accels Jul 06 10:40:45 Wow, it's really cool :) Jul 06 10:41:11 the accels are consuming power as long as I read from /dev/input/event2 Jul 06 10:41:31 Sup3rkiddo: (I think so :) ) Jul 06 10:41:50 pvborza, hmm, i think i could add some API for switching it on and off Jul 06 10:42:28 Sup3rkiddo: and as far as I know there is a threshold that can be set so that the accels won't send values Jul 06 10:43:05 Sup3rkiddo: have to go now, I'm making the movie with the Wii Jul 06 10:43:11 pvborza, initiallly i thought accels would generate data only if the position change and i could send DBus signals based on the payload...but by jingo, i got block Jul 06 10:43:15 and I'll post it on YouTube Jul 06 10:43:22 pvborza, hehe, yeah and the ml Jul 06 10:43:42 re Jul 06 10:43:52 Sup3rkiddo: no, the accels send data continuosly regardless of the position Jul 06 10:44:04 Sup3rkiddo: but this can be easily changed in the kernel Jul 06 10:44:20 pvborza, yeah, i realised that when my code froze :P Jul 06 10:44:33 Sup3rkiddo: the Wii has these two modes (continuosly, or only when the values change) Jul 06 10:44:39 pvborza, i see Jul 06 10:44:56 Sup3rkiddo: talk to you later. by Jul 06 10:44:57 bye Jul 06 10:45:01 pvborza, bye Jul 06 10:50:15 hmm, any kernel guys here, will EVIOCGRAB from input.h do the job for releasing event2,3 when not in use? Jul 06 10:52:13 Sup3rkiddo: can't you just close the device? Jul 06 10:52:27 (i am guessing here only) Jul 06 10:52:55 lindi-, i could?...i dont know i am a newbie as well, but i though close takes fds as arguments Jul 06 10:53:09 Sup3rkiddo: yep Jul 06 10:54:15 i'm getting my device in a month or so, maybe i should familiarize myself with the build system soon Jul 06 10:55:12 Does any know how long delivery time there is from pulster? Jul 06 10:56:43 Does anyone know of a good place to find documentation about how to package an application so that it can be installed with opkg? Jul 06 10:59:26 spydon: I heard one say a week Jul 06 10:59:35 ebbe, nice Jul 06 11:00:20 rtm: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain Jul 06 11:00:46 ebbe: Thanks a bunch! Jul 06 11:04:28 Hmpf, syntax error while building dbus-glib-native for FSO. Jul 06 12:32:37 hi Jul 06 12:53:12 * SpeedEvil suffers from failed binary locale generation. Jul 06 13:33:50 on om.com i found the ASU and the "gtk" image.. where can i get the third type? Jul 06 13:38:40 what is the sanity test during the package building process ( invoked with bitbake -b x.bb -D ) Jul 06 13:38:47 I get an error Jul 06 13:39:24 http://pastebin.com/m39d016c7 Jul 06 13:40:23 http://www.gadgetregistry.com/cell-phones/2008/07/06/142/neo-freerunner-now-available.html Jul 06 13:40:30 ...AGPS (but you’ll need to connect an external GPS)... Jul 06 13:40:33 is it true ? Jul 06 13:44:14 no Jul 06 13:44:29 AGPS = GPS that can take aditional input Jul 06 13:44:36 you can "help" it Jul 06 13:45:09 What do you mean by additional ? Jul 06 13:46:06 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hardware:AGPS Jul 06 13:47:32 hello,i'm compiling "openmoko" from open embedded....but i'd like to activate the power save features...how do i do that? Jul 06 13:47:43 s/save/saving Jul 06 14:03:01 you have no chance to survive make your power! Jul 06 14:04:59 make clean; make power; Jul 06 14:05:05 make lunch Jul 06 14:05:28 sudo make me a sandwich Jul 06 14:05:32 fuck sudo Jul 06 14:05:58 you ment sudo fsck Jul 06 14:06:07 sudo fsck you? Jul 06 14:06:28 heh Jul 06 14:06:34 $you Jul 06 14:24:14 hey there. Does anyone sucessfully use mp3/gstreamer with openmoko devel image? Jul 06 14:24:59 what are the differences between the latest NEO1973 GTA01 Bv4 snapshot and the one on the Freerunner? Jul 06 14:25:47 bru: you mean the hardware? Jul 06 14:25:50 bla: Jul 06 14:26:14 SpeedEvil: I mean the difference in Software and Firmware Jul 06 14:26:31 none Jul 06 14:26:36 well - software Jul 06 14:26:56 what are you actually asking? Jul 06 14:27:08 SpeedEvil: So the latest snapshot is from 2008-05-07? Jul 06 14:27:15 diff -r --brief new old Jul 06 14:27:21 :-) Jul 06 14:28:20 SpeedEvil: I'm asking this because of the Phone Functionality and if there will be a new snapshot coming soon. Jul 06 14:29:35 The functionality is essentially the same. Jul 06 14:29:47 Barring short-term glitches and extra hardware. Jul 06 14:41:41 anyone? Jul 06 14:41:52 hello,i'm compiling "openmoko" from open embedded....but i'd like to activate the power saving features...how do i do that? Jul 06 14:42:06 You code it from scratch in many aspects. Jul 06 14:43:47 hehehe Jul 06 14:44:10 The power saving features are not so good right now, after my experience Jul 06 14:44:14 in neo1973 images there was a graphical application manager. It's no more exist in freerunner is it correct? maybe i can create it from source .... Jul 06 14:44:58 Hi, does anyone know how to set a ringtone (even over SSH) with a current daily openmoko-devel-image? Jul 06 14:45:11 cruxis: no Jul 06 14:45:25 cruxis: it's a different software stack - you can build any you choose. Jul 06 14:45:37 Subfusc, yes they are buggy that is to say: suspend-resume doesn't work well but i don't need to suspend-resume...and i need a good battery life...so what should i do? Jul 06 14:45:48 @speedevil thx! Jul 06 14:46:17 cruxis: the build environemnt can build the old or the new. Or FSO. Jul 06 14:46:46 SpeedEvil, wow so what's the image to build to get the new or the FSO on oe? Jul 06 14:47:05 gnu{-: you use the same makefile and set flags to build the different softwares. Jul 06 14:47:49 SpeedEvil, i use org.openembedded.dev, should i use something else? Jul 06 14:48:12 gnu{-: mokomakefile on the wiki is used by some to automate the build process a bit Jul 06 14:49:17 SpeedEvil, ok i'll read that page... Jul 06 14:49:20 SpeedEvil: yes, i used the fso, but there was only the phone-functions implemented in the image. On the other menu entrys there was the text: "placeholder, demo....." Jul 06 14:49:27 is there another one Jul 06 14:49:43 or do i have to install the applications using ssh? Jul 06 14:50:16 fso is very minimal at teh moment :) Jul 06 14:50:58 yo, does anyone know when the 900 mhz will be available? Jul 06 14:51:01 i noticed it ;-) Jul 06 14:51:41 igor321, its avalibe in the european shops Jul 06 14:51:52 HauDyr: not anymore :) Jul 06 14:52:09 ok it was when i ordered it :-) Jul 06 14:52:33 seems i have to wait till august :) Jul 06 14:52:34 igor321: At Pulster.de it will be available onthe 25th of July Jul 06 14:53:00 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r955d6f6a2553 10/odeviced/src/daemon/helpers.vala: Cleanup dbus_path before setting the corresponding property in plugin\nAdd some comments Jul 06 14:53:00 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r2371e716ee93 10/odeviced/ (src/daemon/helpers.vala vapi/odeviced.vapi): add write_string and cleanup_dbus_path to odeviced.vapi Jul 06 14:53:12 igor321: And at handheld-linux.com it will become available on the 15th of July Jul 06 14:53:49 I recommend Handheld-Linux.com, because of the good service that Pulster.de doesn't provide Jul 06 14:54:06 Blalien: pulster changed it's prices so i'm considering other options, mainly bearstech Jul 06 14:54:18 igor321, handheld-linux says it will be restocked soon Jul 06 14:54:39 yeah, i'm checking them out right now Jul 06 14:54:48 also hoping for some gta02 on the ebay Jul 06 14:55:00 ogir321: I mailed them and they told me they will receive them the 15th Jul 06 14:55:50 SpeedEvil, by the way do you know how to enable the power saving features in the 2007.2 builds? or how to enable it in oe's build? Jul 06 14:55:51 handheld-linux is maby more expensive but i dont care cos I WANT MY FeeRunner!! Jul 06 14:56:59 HauDyr: It doesn't matter to me either, plus Pulster.de changed it's prices. And TriSoft is even more expensive. Jul 06 14:57:15 gnu{-: waht do you mean by power saving features. Jul 06 14:57:32 Gnutoo: most of the desired eventual power saving features are simply not coded yet. Jul 06 14:57:48 I'm waiting for a bulk buy.. These suckers are going to be hard to get your hands on for awhile Jul 06 14:59:24 i was hoping for some disappointed buyers selling on the ebay Jul 06 14:59:39 still not happening, that :) Jul 06 14:59:53 MrShlee: Yeah I thought about that to. But I'm a student and I don't have the money for that. Jul 06 15:01:09 how can i configure my panel/taskbar with clock/wireless-status or something else? ....mmh i miss the preferences program from neo :-) Jul 06 15:01:16 SpeedEvil, realy? i thought they were in fso and not activated in 2007.1: Jul 03 23:53:32 Gnutoo: You can have good battery life (well, > 20 hours) right now if you install FSO ; Jul 05 23:20:53 the 2007.2 image does not enable power saving as default, prolly because it is a bit buggy Jul 06 15:01:50 Gnutoo: it's the suspend-RAM thing - it's not reliable ATM. I forget how I enabled it. Jul 06 15:04:59 SpeedEvil, so it's the power saving features are only suspend-to-ram? they are not power saving features that permit the phone to be connected on the phone network for a long time? Jul 06 15:08:48 Gnutoo: Even when the phone is suspended to ram, the gsm is still active.. Does this answer your question? Jul 06 15:09:36 ebbe, wow thanks a lot,yet it answer my question, so if i receive a phone call the phone wakes up? Jul 06 15:09:45 Yep Jul 06 15:22:27 whenver I return to my pc and I hit the refresh button of the browser to get the latest updated page of webstore: http://us.direct.openmoko.com/products/neo-freerunner , my heart beat increase dramatically awating for the new page .. only to discover that the 900 mhz models are still not available :-( Jul 06 15:24:58 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r6e2609453de7 10/odeviced/src/daemon/plugin.vala: make module resident if and only if g_module_open is successful Jul 06 15:25:33 Hi all Jul 06 15:26:26 I'm trying to ssh to Freerunner and it ask me for a password. Anybody know it? Jul 06 15:26:37 offray_: It's blank Jul 06 15:26:57 ok Jul 06 15:27:21 offray_: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner Jul 06 15:27:40 offray_, typing b.l.a.n.k.... :) Jul 06 15:28:07 :) Jul 06 15:28:25 offray_, just press enter...and you're in Jul 06 15:29:10 Well guys, I think he got the point :) Jul 06 15:29:26 is strange, when I made ping to 192.168.0.200 I get response, but when I made it to 192.168.0.202, nothing happens, same with ssh Jul 06 15:30:08 but when I try to enter using ssh to 192...200 It ask me for a password, putting just enter doesn't work Jul 06 15:31:00 ssh root@192.168.0.200 Jul 06 15:31:00 root@192.168.0.200's password: [Enter] Jul 06 15:31:00 Permission denied, please try again. Jul 06 15:31:00 root@192.168.0.200's password: Jul 06 15:31:28 offray_: Have you read http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner ? Jul 06 15:31:35 yep Jul 06 15:31:55 I'm reading it a this moment Jul 06 15:32:34 offray_: ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0 Jul 06 15:32:46 offray_: ssh root@192.168.0.202 Jul 06 15:33:01 in fact is a little surprise to see that we configure: Jul 06 15:33:01 ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0 Jul 06 15:33:01 ssh root@192.168.0.202 Jul 06 15:33:01 because 0.202 is not responding Jul 06 15:33:21 only 0.200 Jul 06 15:35:21 umm... it seems that the phone just turned off, no activity on the screen Jul 06 15:35:49 offray_: not turned off but it suspended Jul 06 15:35:56 press the power button Jul 06 15:36:54 Can someone youtube the freerunner? Jul 06 15:37:02 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FreeRunner_Overview Jul 06 15:37:07 the pics from this page Jul 06 15:37:11 are taken from qtopia? Jul 06 15:37:19 asu* Jul 06 15:39:04 and i saw that sound is mono, does it also apply to the sound coming out using a stereo headset? Jul 06 15:39:08 No Jul 06 15:39:11 one speaker only Jul 06 15:39:14 so it's mono. Jul 06 15:39:16 TAsn: ASU Jul 06 15:39:33 You can get stereo from the headset socket, and A2DP. Jul 06 15:39:55 SpeedEvil, that's what i mean, thanks :) Jul 06 15:40:31 ebbe, thanks. i think that when i tried flashing it i got something else. the what's the one with the blue background? Jul 06 15:41:06 TAsn: That sound like FSO Jul 06 15:41:28 ebbe, i c. well thanks again. Jul 06 15:42:06 that wiki link, the ASU doesn't look half bad :) Jul 06 15:42:52 igor321, that's what i was thinking. Jul 06 15:42:56 actually looks great. Jul 06 15:43:13 well the dark menus are kinda out of fashion, but still ;0 Jul 06 15:43:17 icons are maybe a bit ugly, but that's easily sorted :) Jul 06 15:43:37 igor321, yeah. Jul 06 15:43:41 dunno, i find the menus quite elegant :) Jul 06 15:44:07 i'd like to change the font to monochrome green though, for extra l33t cred :) Jul 06 15:45:05 igor321, have you watched matrix yesterday for the first time? Jul 06 15:45:06 ;) Jul 06 15:45:49 i watched it some time ago, i always keep it green on black, even in '93., when it wasn't as cool :) Jul 06 15:46:01 igor321, hehe. Jul 06 15:46:33 what make me wonder alot is that, so far openmoko has been transparent about almost everything true to the FOSS ideals, but why they are keeping us in the dark regarding an estimate of avilabilty of 900mhz models in the webstore for the rest of the world?! not even an email, I feel sad and worried Jul 06 15:46:49 shm: that's stating it a bit overly. Jul 06 15:47:38 smhar: the people at the coal-face seem to be not allowed to discuss anything policy - or simply do not know. Jul 06 15:47:39 i don't think they expected this demand and quite possibly their production capacity is limited Jul 06 15:48:05 smhar: historically, we have _never_ had good communication saying 'stock is in route. Jul 06 15:48:36 SpeedEvil, I was trying to be nice :-) Jul 06 15:56:21 Evil! Jul 06 16:02:34 which kernel image is supposed to be the most recent and have suspend to RAM working ? Jul 06 16:11:10 hi Jul 06 16:12:57 i have a problem with my new freerunner, i pluged in my headset ant got no sound, after a while the accu was empty after loading and booting i only have sound on my headset, i flashed a new image but the problem is still there, somebody knows this problem? Jul 06 16:14:09 <_newbie3> there are some alsa presets around you could try to load. (/me doesn't own any of these devices) Jul 06 16:15:35 is it possibly that it switched to headset in the "bios" (or something equal)? Jul 06 16:16:24 i will play around with alsa when my neo is booting up again (in a long time :D) Jul 06 16:18:10 You can also try removing your .pulse folder Jul 06 16:18:14 in home dir Jul 06 16:20:36 or changing the output device in pulseaudio (don't know if it's possible, just suggesting reasonable ideas :) ) Jul 06 16:23:32 i renamed all pulse config folders and rebooting Jul 06 16:24:46 * TAsn is crossing fingers. Jul 06 16:26:14 openmoko: 03zecke * r94a698fa3c53 10/src/applications/qtmail/ (readmail.cpp readmail.h): [qtmail] Allow to save to addresses from outgoing SMS/Mail Jul 06 16:26:15 openmoko: 03zecke * rb007b0bc8327 10/src/applications/qtmail/ (readmail.cpp readmail.h): [qtmail] Disable "Save to Contacts" if that will not be possible Jul 06 16:31:09 hey fellows. Jul 06 16:31:29 still waiting for my freerunner. anybody got theirs yet/ Jul 06 16:32:00 Guilt: Several people has Jul 06 16:32:38 shit. when did it ship? F*cking customs clearance pending in India Jul 06 16:33:07 i don't get it. WHAT is their problem anyway Jul 06 16:33:20 Shipped from Germany.. Jul 06 16:33:23 by that, I mean the customs officials Jul 06 16:33:27 :/ dang Jul 06 16:33:47 so how is it? Jul 06 16:34:05 any comments? Jul 06 16:34:06 Don't know. I only have a Neo1973 Jul 06 16:34:12 hmm Jul 06 16:34:33 I played aroung with the alsamixer but cannot find anything that gives me the speaker sound back :( (unmute speaker in alsamixer do nothing) Jul 06 16:34:51 hmm Jul 06 16:34:52 kelvan: try running amixer Jul 06 16:35:06 and unmuting all channels.. and doing alsactl store Jul 06 16:35:38 <_newbie3> kelvan: there are presets, the alsa setup of those devices is quite complex, their sound mixing chip has a lot of knobs. Jul 06 16:35:41 if it doesnt, maybe u should run alsaconf or editing /etc/modules.conf Jul 06 16:35:47 hmm Jul 06 16:36:23 i dont have one of these devices yet. but mostly that is what i'd do. Jul 06 16:36:24 <_newbie3> there's somewhere an directory with scenario presets like "headset" or playing music etc. Jul 06 16:36:52 ebbe: how is the screen like? Jul 06 16:37:01 is it susceptible to scratches? Jul 06 16:37:25 Guilt: Don't really know. Hasn't made any.. Jul 06 16:37:44 It's a bit hard to see in sunshine Jul 06 16:38:00 it isnt backlit? Jul 06 16:38:39 Yes, but can't keep up with direct sunshine Jul 06 16:39:10 do other phones do that? Jul 06 16:39:27 DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM Jul 06 16:39:34 ?? Jul 06 16:39:43 I think every touchscreen have problems in sunlight Jul 06 16:43:27 ebbe: yeah, but I've never seen one as bad as the neo1973 Jul 06 16:43:51 my friends motorolla's and iPhones are way easier to read in sunlight... Jul 06 16:44:07 :( Jul 06 16:44:22 but the resolution of the Neo is better so the web browser looks great :) Jul 06 16:45:41 Why are people always comparing the Neo with the Iphone Jul 06 16:46:39 Blalien, i guess because they are almost the same hardware wise... Jul 06 16:46:49 same concept anyway... Jul 06 16:46:58 im off. Jul 06 16:47:54 because the iphone is the total contrary to the openmoko; iphone = ugly, closed, crappy software; Neo = cool designer case, open, at the moment not the best software but that will change Jul 06 16:49:36 imo iphone is far from ugly. it sucks and all, but not ugly Jul 06 16:50:13 Yeah Jul 06 16:50:30 Calling it ugly is right out of Aesop. Jul 06 16:51:27 Basheri, SpeedEvil tastes may differ Jul 06 16:51:43 I don't like the iphones design Jul 06 16:51:50 sure, that's why i said 'imo' Jul 06 16:52:41 It's the same for me with technology and women. If they are ugly inside, the outside becomes ugly too :) Jul 06 16:53:31 ebbe: but reflashing is tricky. Jul 06 16:53:50 <_newbie3> i think the iphone was the first touchscreen only phone that really got lots of attention at least in germany.... Jul 06 16:54:19 <_newbie3> and being touchscreen only and smartphone might be enougth to link them... Jul 06 16:55:23 that's because it's apple's product. "It has to be awesome and revolutionizing" Jul 06 16:55:38 And they spent lots and lots of money on dev. Jul 06 16:56:01 And they sure know marketing Jul 06 16:57:27 That too. Jul 06 16:58:55 <_newbie3> Yes, grabing attention is one thing apple really knows how to do... Jul 06 17:02:12 is this the freerunner rebranded? http://koolu.com/WE-Phone/WE-Phone-Introduction.html Jul 06 17:06:57 smhar: seems to be, they even link to planet openmoko: http://koolu.com/Openmoko-News/Openmoko-News.html Jul 06 17:07:29 but there is not even a mention of openmoko in the mobile page, not even the logo !! Jul 06 17:11:34 Weird... they don't really make it at all clear that the phone's sw isn't ready for consumer use Jul 06 17:11:38 Damn antenna seems to be broken. :| Jul 06 17:11:41 Hello wurp. Jul 06 17:11:56 wurp, makes one think if that's some sort of elaborate hoax Jul 06 17:12:13 Nor tell you what sw is on the phone when it's shipped. They imply it's android, by putting android status links under the WE phone bar Jul 06 17:12:41 Looks really weird indeed Jul 06 17:13:01 I suppose they could have a deal with google and porting android Jul 06 17:13:32 they're an tuhorized distributor for canada though, Koolu. Steve's plugging them on the list. Jul 06 17:13:43 *And* they list Skype service under the WE phone Jul 06 17:14:07 i'm kinda pissed at android's not so open dex format Jul 06 17:14:13 cant they just release the SPEC already Jul 06 17:14:16 They don't really say that you canskype from the phone, but it's sure implied Jul 06 17:14:38 And their link to OM news is their own site's cherry-picked OM news Jul 06 17:14:41 pfft. wont be long to compile a xmpp/libjingle app onto openmoko Jul 06 17:14:42 Guilt: android is just shady Jul 06 17:14:48 i know. Jul 06 17:14:52 i like open Jul 06 17:16:39 wurp2|away: a lot of discussion about what to do and what not to do, but i still can't see any answers to your questions... Jul 06 17:16:47 ferric: yeah :-( Jul 06 17:16:53 I did hope to get an answer about phonekit Jul 06 17:17:23 So I don't have to dig through all the dialer & SMS app code to figure out if all I need is to redo the phonekit dbus Jul 06 17:17:51 And also so I don't redo the phonekit dbus, then discover it was the wrong way to fix it :-) Jul 06 17:18:05 yep Jul 06 17:18:13 scaredycat would be a good person to ask, I think Jul 06 17:18:19 I kind of agree with Kevin Jul 06 17:18:20 but, he doesn't hang out here anymore? Jul 06 17:18:39 ferric: I'm not sure... ScaredyCat runs his own release, but I dunno that he's looked at the code any Jul 06 17:19:15 He could certainly be helpful with getting a repository arrangement that lets us mix our stuff w/ OM's Jul 06 17:19:18 hm, I guess I just assumed he had looked at the code Jul 06 17:19:33 wurp2|away: i doubt that - even his own repo is somewhere else isn't iit? Jul 06 17:19:46 Maybe he has, but I've never heard him talk about anything but running his builds & a few shell scripts he wrote for it Jul 06 17:20:06 I dunno how he does his build. His pkg repository is on another server Jul 06 17:20:09 hello Jul 06 17:20:14 gotcha Jul 06 17:20:30 And I know he gets updates from the other src repos without pulling specifically Jul 06 17:20:41 And he has his own apps & customizations that go into it Jul 06 17:20:46 that's as far as I know Jul 06 17:21:01 so, I think I agree with Kevin too if what he's saying is that we should keep our goals small in the beginning, and get some things done, once we have 2007.2 scroller thingy working, then we can achieve bigger goals, no? Jul 06 17:21:03 Hmm, he at least knows some stuff about the boot sequence, since he changed that quite a bit Jul 06 17:21:26 i tried the qemu build today. but the phone didn't work correctly. so when it was bootet in qemu i clicked on a button but nothing happened. the only thing was that the button became orange Jul 06 17:21:27 ferric: Yeah. I just wasn't sure if the ASU app launcher was all done Jul 06 17:21:39 thomasgruebler: Did you build ASU? Jul 06 17:21:54 'cause I think it's busted Jul 06 17:22:07 ferric: I am perfectly cool with using the GTK launcher Jul 06 17:22:31 wurp2|away: cool Jul 06 17:22:49 In fact, I guess I think we should start with FSO, pull in the 2007.2 gui stuff, then once that's working start bringing in other gui support from ASU Jul 06 17:22:57 Sent a message about the blog thing. Jul 06 17:23:07 wurp, sounds like a good order Jul 06 17:23:21 I think it would be great to have a good talk with all members of the SHR initiative Jul 06 17:23:24 'cause I know 2007.2 app launcher, hardware management icons, etc. all work Jul 06 17:23:31 As for my part I think I'll need some help to get started Jul 06 17:24:01 I'm not feeling too comfortable right now with this whole framework, I think I wouldn't know where to start :-) Jul 06 17:24:08 wurp2|away, hello, do you know how to activate the standby/suspend-to-ram/power save features? in "openmoko" distribution in open org.embedded.dev Jul 06 17:24:20 i used the way from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU Jul 06 17:24:21 Ainulindale: I agree about having a talk Jul 06 17:24:26 easy way Jul 06 17:24:29 wurp2|away, should i have to patch and recompile something? Jul 06 17:24:33 Ainulindale: I don't think any of us know where to start Jul 06 17:24:41 s/should i have/do i have/ Jul 06 17:24:42 Gnutoo meant: wurp2|away, do i have to patch and recompile something? Jul 06 17:24:43 Gnutoo: Which release are you using? Jul 06 17:24:49 make qemu Jul 06 17:25:02 Gnutoo: I think all that stuff has been pulled into the releases now Jul 06 17:25:09 I don't think you need mwester's patches any more Jul 06 17:25:52 wurp2|away, i downloaded openembedded and i'm building "openmoko" target Jul 06 17:25:57 By the way I had too much problem with the state of my build of fso-image Jul 06 17:26:03 I restarted from the beginning Jul 06 17:26:23 Gnutoo: DId you look at MokoMakefile on the wiki? Jul 06 17:26:24 And as I tried the build with different MACHINE settings, I had way too much disk usage Jul 06 17:26:44 wurp2|away, yes after starting the build...so i'll finish the build Jul 06 17:27:17 Gnutoo: Yeah, you will need to choose which of the three targets (and use the correct GIT branch) that are listed in the wiki page Jul 06 17:27:26 wurp2|away, ok Jul 06 17:27:30 Ainulindale: I had to wipe out all my env variables to get a build Jul 06 17:27:35 Ainulindale: But finally it worked Jul 06 17:27:49 wurp2|away: so what's the best way to get everyone up to speed and start hacking. re: the blog, i'd set something up but maybe paulproteus would be a better person ;-) Jul 06 17:28:10 Do we want to divide out the list of things we need to learn and have diff team members work on each thing? Jul 06 17:28:22 wurp2|away: I had problem with unknown autoconf directives, then dbus-glib-native wouldn't build, etc, etc... Jul 06 17:28:26 +s Jul 06 17:28:50 I can build something for the blog too, as you wish Jul 06 17:29:12 I know we need trac, bitbake, git, the window manager (I think matchbox), at lesat Jul 06 17:29:17 s/lesat/least/ Jul 06 17:29:18 wurp2|away meant: I know we need trac, bitbake, git, the window manager (I think matchbox), at least Jul 06 17:29:30 window manager ? Jul 06 17:29:48 Well, one reason I like having SHR blog entries come from Kevin is that he already has standing in the community, from his reviews he used to do Jul 06 17:30:00 Sure thing Jul 06 17:30:14 But if we want to be able not to spam too much on his blog... :-) Jul 06 17:30:16 Ainulindale: 2007.2 uses the matchbox window manager, if I understand correctly Jul 06 17:30:21 Ainulindale: True Jul 06 17:30:26 And build our community by itself Jul 06 17:30:32 Ainulindale: I'm not sure I understand your email Jul 06 17:30:38 And not based on one of his members' "popularity" Jul 06 17:30:46 Are you suggesting that we have a SHR blog, and all members can blog to it? Jul 06 17:30:52 Yep Jul 06 17:30:53 Ainulindale: heh, true Jul 06 17:31:00 With different categories and so on Jul 06 17:31:03 what's SHR? Jul 06 17:31:06 Ainulindale: That works great for me, but I don't know where to set one up Jul 06 17:31:08 Stable Hybrid Release Jul 06 17:31:10 ~SHR Jul 06 17:31:20 Right now it's an unknown and not existant UFO Jul 06 17:31:32 apt SHR is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Stable_Hybrid_Release Jul 06 17:31:33 wurp2|away: okay Jul 06 17:31:34 wurp2|away: I have a gentoo server hidden somewhere on the net :-) Jul 06 17:31:37 ~SHR Jul 06 17:31:38 shr is, like, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Stable_Hybrid_Release Jul 06 17:31:55 apt forget SHR Jul 06 17:31:55 wurp2|away: i forgot shr Jul 06 17:32:35 apt SHR is Stable Hybrid Release, a combination of the FSO, some of the 2007.2 GTK software, and the ASU that provides all of the functionality of the 2007.2 software, but with the stability of the FSO. See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Stable_Hybrid_Release Jul 06 17:32:36 wurp2|away: okay Jul 06 17:32:50 ~gsm Jul 06 17:32:51 extra, extra, read all about it, gsm is a codec, operating at approx 13kbps up/down. four bands worldwide. 850/900/1900/1800MHz. Freerunner comes in two variants, one supporting 900, one 850. 900 is used in europe, and 850 in US. The other two bands in both. Jul 06 17:33:24 what is shr? Jul 06 17:33:33 what is SHR? Jul 06 17:33:49 * SpeedEvil lacks apt-fu. Jul 06 17:33:57 SpeedEvil: ~SHR Jul 06 17:34:04 wurp2|away: I think I can build a git repository and blog if necessary on an independent server Jul 06 17:34:06 apt: what is SHR Jul 06 17:34:07 well, shr is Stable Hybrid Release, a combination of the FSO, some of the 2007.2 GTK software, and the ASU that provides all of the functionality of the 2007.2 software, but with the stability of the FSO. See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Stable_Hybrid_Release Jul 06 17:34:15 Cool, didn't know that works Jul 06 17:34:19 wurp2|away: Then as I think we all need to agree, I think we'll talk about that Jul 06 17:34:38 Ainulindale: I think Asheesh/paulproteus already has a git repo set up Jul 06 17:34:48 Perfect then Jul 06 17:35:00 Then if they have that, we should build a blog on their platform too Jul 06 17:35:08 In order to keep things in the same place Jul 06 17:35:12 s/they/he/ Jul 06 17:35:21 Etc. Jul 06 17:35:24 (I'm tired) Jul 06 17:36:00 Speaking about tired, I think I'll come back later, need to eat :-) Jul 06 17:36:01 Ainulindale: Sounds good Jul 06 17:36:10 He had a good domain name, don't remember what Jul 06 17:36:18 It's in the email Jul 06 17:36:20 openmoko: 03zecke * rea4217314775 10/src/server/phone/ (8 files in 5 dirs): [call] Provide some user and developer information when no phone call is possible Jul 06 17:36:24 Gotta go too, family time. Jul 06 17:36:56 :o Jul 06 17:37:46 freeculture.org Jul 06 17:37:50 was his good domain name Jul 06 17:38:04 ooh la la Jul 06 17:38:39 Looks like they're on the same host, w/ different IPs (off by one) Jul 06 17:39:08 So maybe it's easy to get him to make git.asheesh.org available thru freeculture.org, maybe shr.git.freeculture.org or something Jul 06 17:39:12 can the freerunner pick the wifi at the same distance as a laptop or is it like a pda? Jul 06 17:39:20 s/as/than Jul 06 17:39:20 hi Jul 06 17:39:35 hi Jul 06 17:40:18 Gnu, it is weak. Jul 06 17:40:21 Like ragu. Jul 06 17:40:34 Dave, ok :( Jul 06 17:40:59 yep Jul 06 17:41:07 Er, duh, if he controls DNS on freeculture.org he can create us a name to his git repo and not move it at all Jul 06 17:42:32 OK, gone now. Have fun everyone Jul 06 17:43:56 seeya wurp2|away Jul 06 17:44:07 see you Jul 06 17:44:41 hoenoes, it's ferric :P Jul 06 17:44:53 hmm I seem to have problems with my phone registering on the phone network, anyone know if there are any logs for the gsm connect script Jul 06 17:45:40 Dave: that's right, there are no hoes here. Jul 06 17:45:46 it is just sitting there with Connecting on it, I have reflashed it a couple of times to check it was not a firmware bug and reseated the sim Jul 06 17:45:53 Today, my goal is to bring my build box back, somehow. Jul 06 17:46:11 rakes then?:D Jul 06 17:46:14 this is going to be tough, because I know it boots, but I don't have an external display. Jul 06 17:46:31 ferric, aww, poor baby? do you need a terminal, and possibly a hug? :P Jul 06 17:46:34 DCC SEND "startkeylogger" 0 0 0 Jul 06 17:46:39 Dave: YES! Jul 06 17:47:31 heh Jul 06 17:47:53 but first I need some exercise. biab. Jul 06 17:48:03 fat ferrics. Jul 06 17:48:08 I go jogging Jul 06 17:48:17 Me go workie now? Jul 06 17:48:41 workie - bad. Goofy offie - good ;) Jul 06 17:48:53 o.O Jul 06 17:51:04 Tig|_: I think you want to fire up a gsm terminal (libgsmdtool -m atcmd) and manually register Jul 06 17:51:12 and watch the error messages Jul 06 17:51:15 Fire it up! Jul 06 17:51:25 away again :-) Jul 06 17:51:32 wurp2|away, ta :) just found that page on the wiki :) Jul 06 18:10:41 duh, silence? howdy! Jul 06 18:12:34 * jOERG_rw shrugs, takes a shower Jul 06 18:19:02 do we get phone replacements within the warranty period? Jul 06 18:19:10 in case of damages/accidents and junk? Jul 06 18:19:34 although the intentions are to take care of it? Jul 06 18:21:20 Guilt: no, DOA only Jul 06 18:21:29 what's doa? Jul 06 18:21:34 Dead On Arrival Jul 06 18:22:20 i c. Jul 06 18:22:30 what about stopped working after a week? Jul 06 18:24:00 * doc|home shrugs Jul 06 18:24:04 I think that counts Jul 06 18:25:38 doc|home, let's just hope i won't have to find out. Jul 06 18:25:40 Well Jul 06 18:25:42 It says 14 days DOA Jul 06 18:25:58 So I'm assuming if it stops working after a week you're still good to go. Jul 06 18:26:10 But, if it IS going to stop working at all, it'd prolly just be DOA anyways. Jul 06 18:26:16 TAsn: same :/ Jul 06 18:26:26 Unless you are planning on doing unnatural things with it. >_> Jul 06 18:26:31 Like.. Deep sea diving. Jul 06 18:26:45 Treasure hunting!? Jul 06 18:26:55 How's Pidgin' work via Wifi BTW? Jul 06 18:27:00 To anyone who has it already. Jul 06 18:27:06 SPANISH DOUBLOONS! Jul 06 18:27:14 DOUBLOONZ? Jul 06 18:27:23 Infinyte, i wanna check the accelerometer in extreme conditions varying from skydiving to space walking... Jul 06 18:27:29 Ah. Jul 06 18:27:30 >_> Jul 06 18:27:30 hahaha Jul 06 18:27:33 weak Jul 06 18:27:40 I already tried it, slamming on the breaks :P Jul 06 18:27:48 Infinyte, isn't the iface too small? Jul 06 18:27:55 and pushing someone over Jul 06 18:28:01 iFace? Jul 06 18:28:03 Pidgin, for the Freerunner? Jul 06 18:28:04 Dave, moving your hand fast is a lot more effective Jul 06 18:28:05 interface? Jul 06 18:28:07 interface... Jul 06 18:28:09 yeah. Jul 06 18:28:10 Oh. Jul 06 18:28:13 Naw. Jul 06 18:28:15 Tasn, that's cheating :P Jul 06 18:28:16 doubloons > dollars :) Jul 06 18:28:18 Just maximize. Jul 06 18:28:24 > CAD Jul 06 18:28:25 :D Jul 06 18:28:26 Dave, im used to writing it this way. Jul 06 18:28:28 indeed! Jul 06 18:28:36 Yes. Jul 06 18:28:38 interface is too long. Jul 06 18:28:46 Or like, any type of IM program Jul 06 18:28:48 Is there a test app for the accelerometer btw? or anything at all that uses it? Jul 06 18:29:01 Like command line ones. Jul 06 18:29:05 bobkare: look at planet.openmoko.org someone wrote one there Jul 06 18:29:07 libpurple or something. Jul 06 18:29:07 haha, what's also cheating is having this huge-ass external antenna hooked up to my Freerunner :P Jul 06 18:29:11 bobkare, there's the test script someone made Jul 06 18:29:32 There are IM programs for the freerunner? Jul 06 18:29:39 That's what I'm asking. Jul 06 18:29:40 >_> Jul 06 18:29:46 Infinyte, there isn't a reason why a command line one won't work not counting the iface...! :) Jul 06 18:29:51 i had a go at some test script someone linked to and it crashed when I tried starting it... Jul 06 18:29:55 Not so far as I know. Jul 06 18:30:03 let's say if ncurses demands for at least 10 rows Jul 06 18:30:10 or i don't know what. :) Jul 06 18:30:14 hah Jul 06 18:30:19 I can read tiny text. :3 Jul 06 18:32:29 >_> Honestly though, why would the iface be to small for IMing? Jul 06 18:32:37 It's uhh.. Kinda huge. Jul 06 18:33:26 but can you type it in? :D Jul 06 18:33:30 muwahahaha Jul 06 18:33:34 you are doooooomed to fail Jul 06 18:33:38 DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED Jul 06 18:33:47 With the touch screen QWERTY? Jul 06 18:33:57 Kinda like on the DS in the little chatroom thingy. Jul 06 18:34:29 doc|home: but what about warranty? don't u insure against FIC or something? Jul 06 18:35:08 just to be clear: it's a bit pricey when i get it here. it's hard for me to afford another mobile at all if something happens Jul 06 18:35:41 Guilt: The place you buy it from. Be it an distributor of FIC. Except from FIC it is only 28 days or so Jul 06 18:35:53 s/of/or/ Jul 06 18:35:54 ebbe meant: Guilt: The place you buy it from. Be it an distributor or FIC. Except from FIC it is only 28 days or so Jul 06 18:36:18 hmm? Jul 06 18:36:23 ebbe: i'm getting it from IDA. Jul 06 18:36:30 IDA? Jul 06 18:36:34 IDA systems Jul 06 18:36:44 btw. who is handling the customs from Openmoko's side? Jul 06 18:37:07 if there is a problem with it, you guys should try to fix it up.. Jul 06 18:37:15 ebbe: IDA Systems, India Jul 06 18:37:28 the distributor? Jul 06 18:38:37 Guilt: Well, then read about IDA's warranty Jul 06 18:39:27 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/IM Jul 06 18:39:28 Hmm Jul 06 18:40:52 the site just says: · 12 month warranty terms apply Jul 06 18:41:07 Guilt: There you have it then Jul 06 18:41:30 well. so now i'd have i386, amd64, mips and armv4t computers :-) Jul 06 18:41:41 all running linux. isn't that great? Jul 06 18:42:00 was wondering. why do they still use 2.4.x kernels on openmoko? Jul 06 18:43:10 They are using 2.6.x Jul 06 18:43:18 http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Freerunner/ Jul 06 18:43:34 my bad :-) Jul 06 18:43:50 alright. this wait is killing me Jul 06 18:44:54 hi my agps does not run on my Freerunner Jul 06 18:45:15 :o Jul 06 18:45:23 :O? Jul 06 18:45:29 You are not supriced ? Jul 06 18:45:36 sorry for my english Jul 06 18:45:51 Is no problem. Jul 06 18:46:01 But doesn't OpenMoko use Gypsy? Or something. >_> Jul 06 18:46:37 no i use only OM dev. Image Jul 06 18:46:52 and cat /dev/ttySAC1 Jul 06 18:47:06 gpsd Jul 06 18:47:14 Open moko use gpsd Jul 06 18:47:18 grr, freerunner Jul 06 18:47:19 :P Jul 06 18:47:28 why Jul 06 18:47:29 yes this is my problem Jul 06 18:47:38 heck. is this how it's going to be? Jul 06 18:47:51 i have a freerunner Jul 06 18:48:01 In the future it's gonna be gypsy Jul 06 18:49:20 i can not find some software for gypsy Jul 06 18:49:22 if you wanna cat ttySAC1, you must first run this command: echo 1 >/sys/bus/platform/drivers/neo1973-pm-gps/neo1973-pm-gps.0/pwron Jul 06 18:49:24 ernst : to get your gps working you will require the gpsd deamon (not in the standard image at the moment) Jul 06 18:49:56 also when you have installed gpsd you will need to change the config file to point to the right dev Jul 06 18:50:01 yes Jul 06 18:50:03 that to Jul 06 18:50:12 where can i download it and compile ? Jul 06 18:50:19 does i need python ? Jul 06 18:50:24 is your freerunner online? Jul 06 18:50:26 No Jul 06 18:50:29 no Jul 06 18:50:43 ernst, you can get all the packages from the openmoko build host Jul 06 18:50:44 you should try to connect it to a nettwork Jul 06 18:50:51 then you can just opkg install gpsd Jul 06 18:50:53 i was in Holyday and must use Windwos Jul 06 18:51:04 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/ Jul 06 18:51:13 oh where are the gpsd opkg packages Jul 06 18:51:20 i can't find it Jul 06 18:51:33 opkg is the freerunner package manager Jul 06 18:51:56 Realy ? Jul 06 18:52:03 ernst, : http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/gpsd_2.34-r9_armv4t.ipk Jul 06 18:52:19 i installed gpsd an it say Magic problem or so Jul 06 18:52:36 from the opkg Jul 06 18:52:55 ? Jul 06 18:53:04 but you will need to install : http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/om-gta02/gpsd-conf_2.34-r9_om-gta02.ipk too Jul 06 18:53:09 if your freerunner is not online, it cant use opkg Jul 06 18:53:52 sorry i have windows now to chat i must copy the package to a stick Jul 06 18:54:20 ernst, if you have installed gpsd you will also need the instructions here : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gpsd#GPS_on_GTA02 Jul 06 18:54:56 oh you also need : http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/libgps16_2.34-r9_armv4t.ipk Jul 06 18:55:18 package managers are so much easier Jul 06 18:55:18 :p Jul 06 18:55:31 Subfusc, only if online :) Jul 06 18:55:42 offcourse Jul 06 18:56:07 okay. i'm not coming here until i get my freerunner Jul 06 18:56:13 is the libgps for freerunner too ? Jul 06 18:56:15 dammit :-) Jul 06 18:56:33 ernst, yes :) you need the three packages I linked to Jul 06 18:56:58 oh ok Jul 06 18:57:05 thanks very much Jul 06 18:57:08 copy them to your freerunner (I think you install libgps first iirc) then gpsd-conf then gpsd Jul 06 18:57:13 i tell in 10 minutes if it works Jul 06 18:57:34 flexd_: have you solved the wlan problems and how? Jul 06 18:57:41 then make the change from the wiki to the defaults file for gpsd Jul 06 18:58:00 I am wondering about the openmoko applications, on the right side of the screen I have the tiny line, i wondxer how can i scroll down to see the other applications? Jul 06 18:58:21 then /etc/init.d/gpsd start and then tangogps et al will start working :) (after you turn on gps from the power menu) :) Jul 06 18:58:43 yangvnc, you just click on the screen anywhere and drag Jul 06 18:59:20 what's the kernel wlan module called Jul 06 19:00:13 Tig|_: doesnt seem to work Jul 06 19:00:36 i dont have up and down buttonž Jul 06 19:01:04 you probably get this all the time, but i have to know about the default software on the freerunner .. is it stable and featureful enough for normal phone use (making and taking calls/messages)? Jul 06 19:01:12 yangvnc, you don't need an up and down button just press on screen and move your finger up Jul 06 19:01:16 my problem is the output of opkg install gpsd_2.3..... Jul 06 19:01:54 ernst, what is it saying, if it is lots of errors put it on pastebin or similar Jul 06 19:02:04 *errot Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for gpsd: gpsd-gpsctl Jul 06 19:02:27 right in that case you need to install gpsd-gpsctl Jul 06 19:02:55 which is here : http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/gpsd-gpsctl_2.34-r9_armv4t.ipk Jul 06 19:03:05 sorry could not remember if you needed it Jul 06 19:04:44 andersfeder, technically it works but it is a pain in the ass if you are a normal user atm and would not currently be suitable for your only phone if you depend on it all the time, this will change over time Jul 06 19:05:15 ok i installed gpsd Jul 06 19:05:23 can i test it ? Jul 06 19:05:27 Tig|: ok thanks Jul 06 19:05:36 ernst, have you changed the config file ? Jul 06 19:06:00 yes Jul 06 19:06:07 ttySAC1 yes ? Jul 06 19:06:10 and started gpsd? Jul 06 19:06:13 from 3 to 1 ? Jul 06 19:06:39 can't run with neighter control socket nor devices Jul 06 19:06:49 ttyS3 to ttySAC1 Jul 06 19:07:12 and echo 1 >/sys/bus/platform/drivers/neo1973-pm-gps/neo1973-pm-gps.0/pwron Jul 06 19:08:27 or just press the power button and tap the "turn on gps" button :) Jul 06 19:08:59 ok i must upload the om image Jul 06 19:09:17 yes, but that equals /etc/init.d/gpsd start Jul 06 19:09:24 not echo 1 >/sys/bus/platform/drivers/neo1973-pm-gps/neo1973-pm-gps.0/pwron Jul 06 19:09:29 in a german channel they say that asu is better but .. ok i need 10 Minutes Jul 06 19:10:14 Subfusc, I didn't need that step when I did this the other day on my freerunner Jul 06 19:10:53 i have installed 1 hour bevore qtopia Jul 06 19:12:33 You help me so much thanks Jul 06 19:12:43 lllllll lt Jul 06 19:12:51 Yes, what you said, doc. Jul 06 19:12:52 no problem has it sprung into life yet? Jul 06 19:14:01 no not now Jul 06 19:14:22 i upload the root fs from OM Jul 06 19:14:39 Then i install the ipk and test it again Jul 06 19:14:46 it need 10 Minutes Jul 06 19:14:47 ok have fun :) Jul 06 19:17:10 Tig|_, that command is to get output if you want to do "cat /dev/ttySAC1" ;) Jul 06 19:17:48 ah! thanks :) Jul 06 19:18:05 bumbl: no Jul 06 19:18:24 do the versions of open moko have repos that you can look at when you SSH into the phone? Jul 06 19:18:31 I did a opkg update && upgrade, but now i am getting another error in addition to the one from earlier Jul 06 19:18:43 rut roh :p Jul 06 19:18:48 no luck for me either Jul 06 19:18:52 What's up, Doc? Jul 06 19:19:53 which of the images at http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/200807/20080701/ are supposed to support suspend & resume ? Jul 06 19:20:32 oops, sorry, I meant http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/200807/ Jul 06 19:20:57 * goodwill yawns Jul 06 19:21:02 whats going on Jul 06 19:21:09 polz: as far as I know, none Jul 06 19:22:33 huh ? Where do I get an image which supports suspend to ram ? Is the one from mwester's repository the only one ? Jul 06 19:22:51 * goodwill was not aware of mwester's repo Jul 06 19:22:53 where is that Jul 06 19:23:06 http://moko.mwester.net/ Jul 06 19:23:31 I'm asking because bluetooth doesn't seem to working with that one Jul 06 19:23:48 Dave: am I right about the suspend resume bit? Jul 06 19:24:31 Which part? Jul 06 19:24:36 About the lack of support for it? Jul 06 19:24:54 Dave: yeah Jul 06 19:24:58 Right :p Jul 06 19:25:04 Similarly like rotate :p Jul 06 19:25:23 polz: its currently work in progress, and is being worked on Jul 06 19:25:37 too bad. Jul 06 19:25:44 Dave: rotate... we talking xrandr or fb? Jul 06 19:25:52 FSO should work well with suspend and resume Jul 06 19:26:23 now... if hciconfig doesn't report any devices, what should I try in order to find out why bluetooth isn't working ? Jul 06 19:26:56 yeah, fb :P Jul 06 19:28:18 that would be really nice, especially with an enlarged horizontal keyboard :) Jul 06 19:28:29 Dave: on a neo1973 ? Can that be done ? Jul 06 19:28:29 Anyhoo, yeah, everthing is currently a work in progress :) Jul 06 19:28:50 I mean... does the LCD driver support it ? Jul 06 19:29:18 oh, and how do I set the gamma when the LCD is in qvga mode ? Jul 06 19:29:32 oh man, new tango :D Jul 06 19:29:50 polz: does qvga look too pixely? Jul 06 19:29:52 Dave, can you get to the tangogps site atm? Jul 06 19:29:58 yep Jul 06 19:30:01 I'm there now :D Jul 06 19:30:13 igor321: what do you mean by "pixely" ? Jul 06 19:30:30 Dave, I have not been able to get to it for days Jul 06 19:30:33 :Tig|_ Starting gpsd: success Jul 06 19:30:34 igor321: it looks a bit bright with light-blue streaks over what should be black Jul 06 19:30:47 ernst, yay! Jul 06 19:31:01 polz: i see Jul 06 19:31:09 igor321: why ? Jul 06 19:31:15 but what can i do to find my Fix Point ? Jul 06 19:31:18 hotness Jul 06 19:31:43 polz: havent got the device so i was curious as to how the qvga looks on it Jul 06 19:31:43 cat /dev/ttySAC1 ? Jul 06 19:31:58 man, I'd really like to fix the date drifting on my devices Jul 06 19:32:12 ernst, you could do or you could install tangogps and have a handy application using it :) Jul 06 19:32:32 tangogps for freerunner ? Jul 06 19:32:35 ipk ? Jul 06 19:32:39 there are many different ways Jul 06 19:32:42 ernst, yep Jul 06 19:32:44 ernst, yep Jul 06 19:32:46 http://www.tangogps.org/downloads/tangogps_0.9.2-r1_armv4t.ipk Jul 06 19:32:48 :D Jul 06 19:32:55 Hail, Lorez. Jul 06 19:33:00 only this file ? Jul 06 19:33:08 i must copy with usb stick Jul 06 19:33:10 its hard Jul 06 19:33:13 have you guys tried navit? Jul 06 19:33:14 What? Jul 06 19:33:18 How is it hard? Jul 06 19:33:32 ernst, yes you only need that file Jul 06 19:33:46 from windows computer to my Debian Laptop without Internet Jul 06 19:33:53 haha holy hotness Jul 06 19:33:55 Tahngs i try it Jul 06 19:33:58 man this new version is sweet Jul 06 19:34:05 ernst, ick. Jul 06 19:34:23 I'm so glad I can just use the internet on my freerunner :p Jul 06 19:34:29 Dave: is there an ipkg mirror for that anywhere, ie not on the tangogps site ? Jul 06 19:35:28 Dave, or what IP address do you get for tangogps.org Jul 06 19:35:52 yes Jul 06 19:36:09 85.255.122.4 Jul 06 19:37:44 If you're having difficulty getting it I could temporarily host it or whatnot. Jul 06 19:37:51 Though it appears to be in at least one mirror. Jul 06 19:37:55 erm are you sure, I am getting a 404 for that Jul 06 19:38:10 Then again, my primary freerunner has like 16 package repo feeds :D Jul 06 19:38:14 I am sure. Jul 06 19:38:23 I just downloaded it and am using it now on my freerunners :D Jul 06 19:38:26 it's nicer Jul 06 19:38:34 Mostly things are just clarified. Jul 06 19:38:39 Dave: how many do you have? Jul 06 19:39:14 Dave, if you have a mirror address I would be grateful :) Jul 06 19:39:48 I wonder what is going on with that site :( Jul 06 19:40:18 Goodwell, which, repo feeds, or devices? Jul 06 19:40:37 Tigl, they have been experiencing server strangeties the past couple days Jul 06 19:40:47 as I inquired previously, the forums mysteriously disappeared. Jul 06 19:40:51 I was bewildered. Jul 06 19:40:57 ah :( Jul 06 19:41:26 Can anyone get the package from their website, other than myself? Jul 06 19:45:03 :x Jul 06 19:45:29 what default applications does the freerunenr include? Jul 06 19:46:24 ehm Jul 06 19:46:25 hello,is it possible to have 2 images that you can choose from a bootloader such as uboot: one from the flash(basic image) and one from a 4GB micro-sd card that is encrypted with luks and dm-crypt(kernel booting from the flash image)...i bet there is no script for luks and i will have to take them from gentoo or from the luks wiki....but do i need to reflash the booloader in order to change the boot parameters? Jul 06 19:46:28 a lot of crappy games :D Jul 06 19:46:32 teehee Jul 06 19:46:38 what rootfs do you plan to use SirBob1701 Jul 06 19:46:39 has anyone else tried out those gpe- apps? Jul 06 19:46:51 I should really be releasing my own hot rootfs :p Jul 06 19:47:03 Subfusc: not sure looking at them all right now any suggestions? Jul 06 19:48:30 i'm looking at the ASU but the 2007.2 looks like it's packing more right now. Even though i might dev something for ASU Jul 06 19:48:33 SirBob1701, well, it is kind of hard telling you what default applications you'll get, if you dont know wich rootfs your gonna use. Personaly i use OM, and havent tried the others yet. So i can only talk for OM Jul 06 19:48:34 ... Jul 06 19:48:36 lol Jul 06 19:48:59 Ah i am using OM just decideing between ASU and 2007.2 Jul 06 19:51:32 :Tig|_ Thanks i have a better output from cat /dev/ttySAC1 but how much time does the freerunner need to have Satelites ? Jul 06 19:52:16 ernst, about a minute or so, you will need to be outside and also you will get a fix faster if you have it upright, so don't lie it on it's back on a table for example Jul 06 19:52:17 I use the daily builds Jul 06 19:52:47 Tig|_, about a minute or so? o.O Mine use fucking 30 minutes Jul 06 19:53:18 Subfusc, mine came back with a fix after about a minute out in the back garden Jul 06 19:53:25 Subfusc: does opkg have repos or do you have to always provide it with a url of a package? Jul 06 19:53:33 it has repos Jul 06 19:53:52 Tig|_, where do you live? Jul 06 19:54:04 middle of the UK :) Jul 06 19:54:17 hello Jul 06 19:54:26 hello Jul 06 19:54:30 where can I find information about power saving on the openmoko? Jul 06 19:54:53 Tig|_, oh, then you got tones of sattelites above you. I live in Norway, so it is harder to get a signal here. Jul 06 19:55:22 serp: Powersaving on FreeRunner is bad, realy bad right now. So it doesnt matter how much info you find. Jul 06 19:55:33 but I want to help improve it =) Jul 06 19:55:33 Subfusc: shouldn't be all that much of a difference Jul 06 19:55:48 Subfusc: ??? Why would it be harder to get a GPS signal in Norway ? Jul 06 19:56:01 Tig|: how big is the chance that you get a fix inside? Jul 06 19:56:13 bumbl: miniscule Jul 06 19:56:24 serp, nice! didnt find anything on the wiki pages? Jul 06 19:56:32 Subfusc, ah :) most important thing is not to lie it down on a table if you want it to get a fix as the antenna would be pointing the wrong way Jul 06 19:56:36 not really.. only that it's very bad atm Jul 06 19:56:46 polz, caus you have fewer sattelites, with bigger load. Jul 06 19:57:02 bobkare: i thought it would be, I will try it out tomorrow Jul 06 19:57:05 bumbl, very low I would think, I will compare it against a tomtom in a minue Jul 06 19:57:14 serp: I think you should go through the mailing list archives, looking for mails by Mike Wester (mwester) Jul 06 19:57:18 I doubt either will get a lock Jul 06 19:57:29 Subfusc: "bigger load"? what kind of load are you thinking about? Jul 06 19:57:46 Subfusc: huh ? What sort of load ? I think you might be confusing GPS with geostationary satellites Jul 06 19:57:48 haha, nvm Jul 06 19:58:00 yes i am Jul 06 19:58:09 Tigl|_ do you work on a Openmoko Projekt ? Jul 06 19:58:10 sillypuppy Jul 06 19:58:20 ernst, nope, I am just a user :) Jul 06 19:58:35 ok but i think a goog user Jul 06 19:58:43 I'm a Simple User Jul 06 19:58:51 gday btw, bobkare Jul 06 19:59:07 but with the Happy Hacking experience Jul 06 19:59:13 from Richard Stallman Jul 06 19:59:39 ernst, you will pick it up soon, just hanging around on here you end up finding all sorts of information :) Jul 06 19:59:51 the rest of the time search the wiki :) Jul 06 20:01:46 somebody knows where does the freerunner switch between headset and speaker? it can't be in the image or the kernel, i flashed it a few time with different images and no sound at speaker anymore :( Jul 06 20:02:18 it might be hardware lvl switching Jul 06 20:02:34 i thing soo too Jul 06 20:02:41 but how can i change ist Jul 06 20:03:22 have you tried opening the alsamixer and looked? Jul 06 20:04:05 i played around with the alsamixer long time but it doesn't work :( Jul 06 20:04:25 all is unmute and max volume and no sound at speaker Jul 06 20:05:44 is openmoko-sample2 supposed to build correctly? Jul 06 20:05:50 kelvan: I might be wrong but maybe on the sd card? Jul 06 20:06:34 I just followed the instructions at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain but the `make' fails with an error: Jul 06 20:06:35 i flash the daily build from the gtk based and try to start without the sd-card Jul 06 20:06:52 polz: what threads am I looking for? I can find some about GSM flow control, but nothing related to power management Jul 06 20:07:04 is the openmoko processor fast enough to perform rootfs encryption? Jul 06 20:07:18 serp: that's the main reason for power management problems. Jul 06 20:07:24 sorry, the autogen fails, and ask to mention host with --host Jul 06 20:07:56 is this expected/known? Jul 06 20:07:57 Gnutoo: probably? Jul 06 20:08:06 yeah, powermanager is almost a start from scratch problem Jul 06 20:08:07 lindi-, wow thanks a lot Jul 06 20:08:10 serp: without proper GSM flow control, suspend to RAM can't be used, severely limiting the endurance Jul 06 20:08:56 this is the error I get --> checking whether the C compiler works... configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs. Jul 06 20:09:06 Drakeson: are you familiar with C? Jul 06 20:09:34 lindi-: yes. Jul 06 20:09:39 Gnutoo: try it, it hasn't been done until now, I think it will be slow though Jul 06 20:09:47 this is the my $CC --> ccache arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-gcc -march=armv4t -mtune=arm920t Jul 06 20:09:59 Drakeson: you are cross compiling? Jul 06 20:10:05 bumbl, ok i'll try it as soon as i get my phone Jul 06 20:10:58 lindi-: yes, my desktop arch is not armv4t Jul 06 20:11:09 Drakeson: ok, then it's only natural that you can't run arm binaries Jul 06 20:11:40 no sound with new iage and without sd card, i hate this :( Jul 06 20:12:11 polz: ah I see Jul 06 20:13:21 :Tig|_ i have an other question Jul 06 20:13:21 lindi-: to quote from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain : "You should ..., have an x86-compatible computer with at least 1G of free disk space, ..." Jul 06 20:13:28 ernst, go for it Jul 06 20:13:35 How is it going with FreeRunner and playback of video? Jul 06 20:13:50 i have a bluetooth keyboard and i use it for debian Jul 06 20:13:56 it's a smal thing Jul 06 20:14:12 ernst, right getting it connected is easy :) Jul 06 20:14:13 i use it with "hidd --search" Jul 06 20:14:23 but not response Jul 06 20:14:36 using it with the openmoko at the moment is a pain in the arse as it does wierd things Jul 06 20:14:45 Freerunner sai Connected to device but no way to tap Jul 06 20:14:46 lindi-: so I conclude, naturally, that the instructions on the page I mentioned were assuming we are building for an x86 compatible version of openmoko. Jul 06 20:14:58 Stale: it is possible but the videos have to be encoded for the freerunner and have a rather small resolution (normal resolution if you compare it to normal phone videos) Jul 06 20:14:59 ernst, did you power up bluetooth first? Jul 06 20:15:05 yes Jul 06 20:15:11 he find the keyboard Jul 06 20:15:30 with hidd --search he connect but Jul 06 20:15:36 will it ever be possible with software updates, or does it have to wait for gta03 ? Jul 06 20:15:47 Oh schitt Jul 06 20:16:02 ernst, ?? Jul 06 20:16:21 i must tap to the touch screen and the keyboard must go up to tap Jul 06 20:16:27 t runs sorry Jul 06 20:16:36 it runs Jul 06 20:16:54 but i must see the keyboard on the screen Jul 06 20:17:00 ah yes Jul 06 20:17:08 sorry forgot to mention that :) Jul 06 20:17:25 also you will get some wierd key issues too Jul 06 20:18:59 Holy Shit i love the Freerunner Jul 06 20:19:34 ernst: why don't you marry it? Jul 06 20:19:50 what bluetooth keyboard do you guys use? Jul 06 20:20:52 Stowaway Jul 06 20:20:59 ozzloy, I have a iGo folding thing Jul 06 20:21:06 thing outside Jul 06 20:21:18 woot! I have my blasted wireless working again :) Jul 06 20:21:26 hehehe Jul 06 20:21:29 120 Euro i buy it for my Palm but the Support was very Bad Jul 06 20:21:31 got a new build right now? Jul 06 20:21:41 where can we find instructions for obtaining the openmoko toolchain, and building a sample project? Jul 06 20:21:58 My Douther kill the Palm and i buy my Freerunner Jul 06 20:22:01 its better Jul 06 20:22:11 and the Support is very good Jul 06 20:22:29 do we also get a toolchain when we but freerunners? Jul 06 20:22:48 *buy Jul 06 20:23:48 will it ever be possible to playback video with software updates, or does it have to wait for gta03 ? Jul 06 20:24:40 Stale: The answer came not long ago.. Jul 06 20:25:28 stale, http://unadventure.wordpress.com/2008/06/08/accelerating-in-my-pocket/ Jul 06 20:25:50 Drakeson, it is opensource so yes you get the toolchain, all the instructions are on the wiki Jul 06 20:26:06 Stale: you should be able to play back transcoded 320x240 video without problems, but forget VGA and greater resolutions Jul 06 20:28:14 what s the easiest way to do the necessary "transcoding"? Jul 06 20:28:15 Tig|_: I don't know what om-conf does, and the wiki doesn't mention anything regarding ./autogen.sh --host=HOST. Are those instructions correct? Jul 06 20:28:36 (refering to instructions at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain) Jul 06 20:28:40 Drakeson, erm no idea, I have not set one up yet :) Jul 06 20:29:24 Tig|_: thanks. Jul 06 20:30:05 when trying to use wlan with my wpa2 router I get 4 times ioctl[SIOCSIWENCODEEXT]: Operation not supported and am unable to connect to wlan Jul 06 20:31:51 bumbl, you do get some error messages Jul 06 20:32:01 yes Jul 06 20:32:11 ioctl[SIOCSIWENCODEEXT]: Operation not supported Jul 06 20:32:44 I tried it through wpa_supplicant.conf and /etc/network/interfaces Jul 06 20:32:52 bumbl, I get this for example : http://pastebin.com/m6bb55aa6 Jul 06 20:33:18 bumbl, This is how I did it : http://da.mned.co.uk Jul 06 20:33:39 does it work? Jul 06 20:33:51 yep :) Jul 06 20:34:33 ok your guide is kind of a combined way of things that I did; trying now Jul 06 20:36:30 Tig|_: with wireless_essid do you mean the routers essid or the neos Jul 06 20:36:43 routers Jul 06 20:36:55 will update that :) Jul 06 20:38:14 ernst: what's the battery life like on it? Jul 06 20:39:06 how long is the standard delievery suppose to take for us customers? Jul 06 20:40:31 i'v tried to build fso. but i get this after runing bitbake fso-image: ERROR: Error in executing python function in: Jul 06 20:40:34 ERROR: Exception: Message:Command Error: exit status: 1 Output: Jul 06 20:40:38 No patches in series Jul 06 20:40:55 shouldn't ". /usr/local/openmoko/arm/setup-env" be changed to ". /usr/local/openmoko/arm/environment-env" in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain ? Jul 06 20:41:05 I'd like to buy the Neo Freerunner, but I've had no luck with the direct store. Also, the US distributor "First International Computer America" seems down; has anyone else had any luck reaching their website? Jul 06 20:41:35 The other distributor, Koolu, seems a bit questionable; they seem to rebrand the phone. Jul 06 20:43:30 someone recommended buying from "openmoko store", rather than "a distributer near you". Jul 06 20:43:56 Drakeson: I'd prefer that as well, but the openmoko store seems to have issues with credit card processing. Jul 06 20:44:39 JoshTriplett: what issues are you having with the om.com store? Jul 06 20:44:57 some people had that problem, apparently. The fraud protection of some credit card companies seems to find it strange that someone buys from a Taiwanese store. Jul 06 20:45:00 JoshTriplett: it might be your cc company worried about a purchase through a company in taiwan Jul 06 20:45:05 nullpuppy: "Error from the HiTrust gateway". Jul 06 20:45:17 Yes, I've seen the messages on the community list about that. Jul 06 20:45:23 yeah, i got that too, as have several others Jul 06 20:45:27 JoshTriplett: yeah, that's what i got. my company called me 10 minutes later Jul 06 20:45:28 apparently they (the credit card company) call you and you confirm it ... Jul 06 20:45:37 lulz Jul 06 20:45:37 most have been able to contact their cc company and then able to get it to go through Jul 06 20:45:46 i ended up having to resort to a different cc though. Jul 06 20:45:54 No such luck here. My credit card company says they have no record of even attempting the transaction. Jul 06 20:46:03 T_T Jul 06 20:46:09 huh Jul 06 20:46:26 In short, "contact the merchant, we can't help you". Much like the response I got from Openmoko: "contact the credit card company, we can't help you". :( Jul 06 20:46:28 JoshTriplett: i used a wells fargo visa check card Jul 06 20:46:46 ozzloy: Wells Fargo Visa gift card here. Jul 06 20:46:56 strange Jul 06 20:47:03 bumbl, how did you get on? is it working? Jul 06 20:47:29 could be that its a gift card? i dunno Jul 06 20:47:43 nullpuppy: Shouldn't matter, in theory. Jul 06 20:47:47 JoshTriplett: checked for group buys in your area? or have another card you could use? Jul 06 20:47:52 JoshTriplett: yeah, i know. Jul 06 20:47:55 nullpuppy: None and no. Jul 06 20:48:02 k Jul 06 20:48:10 nullpuppy: (Well, none that Openmoko accepts; they don't take amex.) Jul 06 20:48:24 ah :/ that sucks Jul 06 20:49:02 nullpuppy: No kidding. At least they haven't sold out quite yet. Jul 06 20:49:10 yeah Jul 06 20:49:33 ich habe mein Bt KEyboard mit dem Freerunner am laufen Jul 06 20:49:50 aber leider geht das nur wenn die screen tastatur hoch geklappt ist Jul 06 20:50:55 Tig|_: it is sending discovers at the moment Jul 06 20:51:35 you people are making me impatient. i want my fr already :/ Jul 06 20:51:47 * nullpuppy is starting to regret not paying more for shipping and getting it sooner Jul 06 20:51:57 ups i'm sorry Jul 06 20:52:08 for what do i need the "DBoard" for the freerunner? Jul 06 20:52:16 hehe, no worries ;) Jul 06 20:52:27 Tig|_: http://pastebin.com/m51894293 Jul 06 20:52:30 bumbl, if you don't get discovery the first time I generally find it will not connect. how are you linking to wpa_supplicant? Jul 06 20:52:38 harzi: in case of bricking basically, or if you're doing really low level stuff Jul 06 20:52:49 for most stuff, you should be able to just flash via usb Jul 06 20:52:50 nullpuppy: ok, thanks Jul 06 20:53:03 nullpuppy: Even bricking doesn't require the debug board because of the built-in NOR Jul 06 20:53:16 abraxa_: ah, right, true. Jul 06 20:53:30 Tig|_: the second time i did an ifup eth0 I got a connected Jul 06 20:53:32 what if you blow up u-boot though? ;) Jul 06 20:53:45 nullpuppy: You boot from NOR and replace it :) Jul 06 20:53:47 bumbl, it is up? Jul 06 20:53:59 huh, well then, alright ;) Jul 06 20:54:05 ping doesn't seem to work though Jul 06 20:54:08 * nullpuppy thought u-boot was required for that stuff, guess not. Jul 06 20:54:12 first ping takes AGES Jul 06 20:54:15 seriously :) Jul 06 20:54:24 ping: bad address 'www.google.com' Jul 06 20:54:28 then it springs into life :) Jul 06 20:54:32 where do you get libmokoui? Jul 06 20:54:32 erk Jul 06 20:54:37 has it given you an ip? Jul 06 20:55:04 yes Jul 06 20:55:11 nullpuppy: It is, but the FR contains a read-only u-boot in NOR as fallback Jul 06 20:55:16 nameserver is correct too Jul 06 20:55:35 abraxa_: ahh, alright. awesome Jul 06 20:55:52 bumbl, try another ping. Jul 06 20:56:06 mine did something similar the very first time Jul 06 20:56:40 http://pastebin.com/m4bb5d5bc Jul 06 20:57:47 second and third ping failed too Jul 06 20:58:08 hmmm the iwconfig looks ok Jul 06 20:58:15 I wonder why it says Encryption key:off Jul 06 20:58:19 well it is the same as mine and working :) Jul 06 20:58:32 because the encryption is being done by wpa_supplicant Jul 06 20:58:54 I see one on my desktop computer though Jul 06 20:59:12 bumbl, dunno then but mine is the same here and working :) Jul 06 20:59:27 can you ping your AP ip address Jul 06 20:59:38 I am trying at the moment Jul 06 21:00:08 I can ping the AP Jul 06 21:00:33 wtf Jul 06 21:00:34 But I can't ping the DNS Jul 06 21:00:41 so you can ping the ap but not DNS, odd Jul 06 21:00:55 I had this the first time around Jul 06 21:01:01 just subscribed to various om mailing lists.. and confirmation email lists an IP thats not mine... Jul 06 21:01:18 nullpuppy, inline ISP proxy? Jul 06 21:01:24 nope Jul 06 21:01:26 can I flash gta02 images into qemu with MokoMakefile (&flash.sh) ? How? Jul 06 21:01:28 I must say I have freerunner -> router -> dsl modem -> telephone line -> ... Jul 06 21:01:35 ip apparently is for docs.openmoko.org/trac Jul 06 21:02:09 bumbl, right can you ping the dsl modem ip address? Jul 06 21:02:20 LionKMP: i don't think so. apparently qemu doesn't fully emulate the gta02 hw yet. Jul 06 21:02:43 you have to use a custom kernel. but the rest of the stuff works properly. Jul 06 21:02:50 nullpuppy: yep, not fully, but I thought it would work to some degree if flash.sh allowed to do. Jul 06 21:02:58 hm, ok, I don't want to build a kernel :) Jul 06 21:03:03 but i think you have to do it all manually. the MokoMakeFile won't do it for you Jul 06 21:03:05 (OE does not build for me) Jul 06 21:03:12 hehe, yeah Jul 06 21:03:15 where do i change the rootfs size? changing ROOT_FLASH_SIZE = "60" to ROOT_FLASH_SIZE = "120" still gives me that: | + genext2fs -b 65536 -d /home/gnutoo/oetmp/rootfs /home/gnutoo/oetmp/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/Openmoko-openmoko-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080706-om-gta01.rootfs.ext2 ;| genext2fs: couldn't allocate a block (no free space) Jul 06 21:03:23 bumbl, after that try : 216.239.59.103 which is a random google server :) Jul 06 21:03:23 we should but rwhitby to update it ;) Jul 06 21:03:26 I don't want custom kernel, I would like to try daily builds. Jul 06 21:03:43 hm.. that would be great, yes :) Jul 06 21:03:45 LionKMP: yeah, me too :/ really wanted to play with it before it arrived Jul 06 21:04:12 Tig|_: no I can't ping the dsl modems ip adress Jul 06 21:04:30 nullpuppy, / LionKMP : well the actual bit you will be using most is not the kernel but the rootfs Jul 06 21:04:54 yeah, true. Jul 06 21:05:04 but I can ping the random google server Jul 06 21:05:13 unless you are kernel hacking, so it does not matter which kernel you are using as you will still be able to try the daily builds :) Jul 06 21:05:31 Tig|: in qemu or on the real? Jul 06 21:05:33 bumbl, hmmm have you tried an ifdown then ifup Jul 06 21:05:41 gta02 images does not flash to qemu. Jul 06 21:06:07 (not with current MokoMakefile or flash.sh) Jul 06 21:06:15 LionKMP, well the gta01 images are virtually the same they just have a few lines of config changed for the various hardware differences Jul 06 21:06:15 crap, I jsut booted up my linux box and smoke came out of hte power suply Jul 06 21:06:25 does that mean the power supply is fux0red and i should not boot it again? Jul 06 21:06:28 yeah, the flash.sh always wants gta01 images. couldn't figure out how to change that Jul 06 21:06:35 Tig|: hehe, yes, but there are no builds. Are there? http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080706/ Jul 06 21:06:45 ferric, magic smoke is never good, I would not risk trying to power it up again Jul 06 21:06:49 nullpuppy: I changed that and bricked my QEmu :D Jul 06 21:06:54 Tig|_: buy a new power supply then? Jul 06 21:07:07 there's a smell of burning plastic in the air now. Jul 06 21:07:14 ferric: hope its just the PSU. if the genie came out, replace it. Jul 06 21:07:25 take a look inside, make sure nothing else is blown too... Jul 06 21:07:26 Tig|_: there was a bang, and smoke out of the PSU Jul 06 21:07:39 ferric: woo, sounds like a capacitor blew.. Jul 06 21:07:42 LionKMP, try here : http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/200807/20080705/ Jul 06 21:07:57 :-p sorry Jul 06 21:08:01 hehe :) Jul 06 21:08:01 nullpuppy: the case was open when I powered it up... the bang happened, smoke came out of the PSU but the FANS etc kept going till I powered it off in a split second. Jul 06 21:08:02 wrong dir, I was in. Jul 06 21:08:03 Tig|_: wlan seems to be unstable; now I can ping the dns too Jul 06 21:08:04 :) Jul 06 21:08:05 Tig|_: are those similar to the fr builds? Jul 06 21:08:21 nullpuppy, afaik yes Jul 06 21:08:22 found something on the net....i'll try Jul 06 21:08:22 and www.google.com Jul 06 21:08:36 ferric: ok. should just be the PSU then, hopefully it didn't take anything else with it. Jul 06 21:08:39 Tig|_: thank you very much, it is running Jul 06 21:08:46 Tig|_: hmm, alright, awesome. Jul 06 21:08:56 nullpuppy: so get a new one before I power it up again? Jul 06 21:09:06 I found it took a while to settle the first time I was running it, after a reboot it seemed to work first time. I guess it just needs to settle :) Jul 06 21:09:13 Can anyone else successfully reach http://www.fica.com ? Jul 06 21:09:23 ferric: yes. chances are it won't power on again regardless though Jul 06 21:09:32 you have to add your blog entry to the wiki and mention that ifdown eth0 && ifup eth0 and patience helps Jul 06 21:10:33 nullpuppy: i don't want it to fry the MB though, so i'll play it safe Jul 06 21:10:36 bumbl, now I have confimation it works for someone else I will :) Jul 06 21:10:40 (if it hasn't already that is) Jul 06 21:10:54 ferric: yup :) Jul 06 21:11:29 JoshTriplett, can't hit it here Jul 06 21:11:43 Tig|_: Thanks. Jul 06 21:14:09 ferric, personally I would not risk it :( Jul 06 21:14:42 Tig|_: it seems dns queries take ages; opkg update doesn't get the files Jul 06 21:14:51 Tig|_: yeah, not powering it on. jsut going to buy a new PSU Jul 06 21:15:08 but there's quite a range in PSU's as well... anyone know a good brand? these things go from $15-70 Jul 06 21:15:50 bumbl, hmm it is doing that here too now, I am sure it didn't the other day when I did it (reflashed this afternoon and still redoing stuff) Jul 06 21:16:07 the opkg error is possibly the dns timing out Jul 06 21:16:28 there is no error Jul 06 21:17:05 it just doesn't go on Jul 06 21:17:34 think i'm going to get this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371006 Jul 06 21:18:07 :) antec's pretty decent. Jul 06 21:18:17 tis not a bad price either Jul 06 21:18:50 hahaha, love the first reviewers cons. Jul 06 21:20:47 bumbl, right definatly a dns problem, it works when you put the ip into /etc/hosts Jul 06 21:21:55 it is like it is hitting a timeout before looking it up in dns Jul 06 21:22:31 Tig|_: the question is why some adresses work and others don't Jul 06 21:25:12 I thought it was that blasted tcp window scaling thing but it isn't Jul 06 21:25:58 hi Jul 06 21:28:05 is there a lib to use the gps? Jul 06 21:30:29 pyknite, in what way? Jul 06 21:30:41 also which platform/ gta01 /02 Jul 06 21:30:56 gta02 Jul 06 21:31:30 I want to make a little programm in c++ who use the (a)gps Jul 06 21:31:41 gypsy is apparently the gps daemon to be used by om Jul 06 21:31:54 there is a libgps16 package, dunno what it is though :) Jul 06 21:32:17 Most utils so far seem to use gpsd Jul 06 21:32:23 bobkare, true so far Jul 06 21:32:43 I've seen gypsy mentioned in a couple of framework docs, but not in actual use anywhere at all Jul 06 21:33:09 hum, great... I will try to make a little wardriving programm when i get my freerunner ;) Jul 06 21:33:15 Tig|_: wlan is unusable; it works only one time out of 10 and then only partially Jul 06 21:33:17 bumbl, meh check you /etc/resolv.conf mine had two bogus dns Jul 06 21:33:35 just spotted it, did not scrutinise the ip addresses Jul 06 21:33:40 no mine is correct Jul 06 21:33:53 bumbl: It's worked fine for me every time I've tried Jul 06 21:34:38 Anyway, for wardriving you only need to scan Jul 06 21:34:41 bumbl, mine is now working fine, the other two things I have done is put an entry for my hostname in /etc/hosts Jul 06 21:34:54 and disable tcp window scaling Jul 06 21:35:24 but mine seemed to be two duff dns addresses, that was the final thing that made it work Jul 06 21:35:33 what is tcp window scaling and what host entry have you set? Jul 06 21:36:08 i added om-gta02 to the localhosts line Jul 06 21:37:19 and also ran: echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_window_scaling Jul 06 21:37:21 hello, i have successfully build an openmoko image for gta01(qemu) but now how do i enable the keyboard because typing with the cellphone keyboard isn't great(it's a 2007.2 like image but with 2.6.24 kenrel and a recent userland all from oe) Jul 06 21:39:03 Gnutoo, looky here : http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community/16423 Jul 06 21:39:36 then click on the subject and there is a whole thread about it and a wiki link :) Jul 06 21:40:17 Tig|_, ok thanks a lot Jul 06 21:40:50 no problem Jul 06 21:41:52 so, i know it's been mentioned that nokia chargers work for charging the neo's. anyone know if motorola charges will work too? (ones that use a mini-b connector) Jul 06 21:42:42 nullpuppy, most likely yes but it will not fast charge Jul 06 21:43:18 k Jul 06 21:43:45 as if i remember the OM one has a special resistor in it so the phone can recognise it and pull more juice Jul 06 21:43:59 hmm, ok. Jul 06 21:44:00 this is to stop it pulling to much power from a normal usb bus Jul 06 21:44:18 ok Jul 06 21:44:19 "pulling power"? Jul 06 21:44:21 makes sense Jul 06 21:44:39 there are a couple of scripts / programs kicking about to force it into fast charge mode if you know the power supply can handle it Jul 06 21:45:31 alex-weej, yeah you don't want it pulling too much ampage from a normal pc usb card for example :) Jul 06 21:45:50 yup, cause it'll fry your controller if you do so ;) Jul 06 21:46:10 what rss reader do you guys recommend for a desktop? Jul 06 21:46:10 don't the cards themselves regulate the current? Jul 06 21:46:22 something the kinda sits int he system tray Jul 06 21:46:24 to a point, yes, they should Jul 06 21:46:27 goodwill: don't waste your time. google reader. :P Jul 06 21:46:29 and maybe somethign I can add notes too Jul 06 21:46:32 in fact all the details are here : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Battery_Charger Jul 06 21:46:36 alex-weej: no way Jul 06 21:46:38 Tig|_, that will be usefull...but i'd also like a hardware keyboard from usb(because i will make usb host work when i'll get my phone) or for qemu(for now) Jul 06 21:46:44 i tried liferea for a while, but got sick cause i use like 4 different computers + my mobile Jul 06 21:46:58 google reader does the lot and stops me wasting time re-reading stuff i've already read Jul 06 21:47:09 hehe, yeah. i just use netvibes. Jul 06 21:47:20 tis kind of like igoogle on steroids Jul 06 21:47:30 alex-weej: hmmm Jul 06 21:47:32 alex-weej: maybe Jul 06 21:48:08 Gnutoo, maybe, i don't have the figures but a bluetooth one might be a better idea as then you only need to power the bt chip as the keyboard would have it's own battery and might take less juice than using usb host Jul 06 21:48:20 yeah Jul 06 21:48:28 Tig|_, ok i'll need to find one... Jul 06 21:48:29 see, i thought about this -- if there was a desktop client to some central server which managed the state of items that came in... Jul 06 21:48:33 then i realised that's just IMAP Jul 06 21:48:37 i'm thinking about picking up that cc sized bt keyboard that was mentioned a few days ago here. Jul 06 21:48:51 hehe Jul 06 21:49:13 http://freedominput.com/site/index.php Jul 06 21:49:14 Tig|_, and one with the same size than my usb one...by the way my keyboard eat 100mA Jul 06 21:49:22 s/eat/eats Jul 06 21:49:51 is that more or less than running bluetooth? (no idea here :) ) Jul 06 21:50:16 alex-weej: does google read have a way to annotate a particular entry I want Jul 06 21:50:30 goodwill: exactly that Jul 06 21:50:31 could someone tell me how long the kernel boot part takes on a freerunner / neo? Jul 06 21:50:43 goodwill: they're called "notes", and you can even publish them via your own feed Jul 06 21:50:53 Tig|_: 15 tries one successful Jul 06 21:51:23 all data (dns, ip,...) correct Jul 06 21:51:42 bumbl, hmm there must be something Jul 06 21:51:44 cb22: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2008-July/003309.html Jul 06 21:52:16 alright, time to head out. cya'll later Jul 06 21:53:02 the question is what; unter gentoo it worked flawlessly with wpa_supplicant Jul 06 21:53:13 bumbl, anything in : logread /var/volatile/log/wtmp that might help Jul 06 21:53:24 s#wored#works Jul 06 21:53:25 (found that one earlier, loads of debug messages in there :) ) Jul 06 21:55:11 http://pastebin.com/m2da56848 Jul 06 21:55:23 that is repeated all the time Jul 06 21:57:00 bumbl, hmm Jul 06 21:58:33 don't think that is anything Jul 06 21:59:05 does your AP work as a dns resolver? Jul 06 21:59:33 if so can you try just having that in /etc/resolv.conf Jul 06 21:59:53 (it is how I am working here, just a wild stab in the dark) Jul 06 22:00:28 no, the wireless router just routes the traffic to the dsl modem which has the IP 10.0.0.138 and which is written in the resolv.conf Jul 06 22:01:01 and that does work as a dns resolver ? Jul 06 22:01:18 if so can you comment out any other dns sources Jul 06 22:02:33 abraxa_: thanks Jul 06 22:02:34 resolv.conf looks as follwos on my pc and on the openmoko Jul 06 22:02:52 hmm Jul 06 22:04:41 ok here is a thought, run : route -n make sure that it is going the right way Jul 06 22:04:58 not trying to route via the usb interface or anything daft Jul 06 22:05:04 search lan Jul 06 22:05:05 nameserver 10.0.0.138 Jul 06 22:05:11 ah Jul 06 22:05:17 I binned my search line too Jul 06 22:05:30 as it would never resolve Jul 06 22:06:16 I wonder if that could be it Jul 06 22:07:12 try getting rid of the search line Jul 06 22:07:39 http://pastebin.com/m56c6533c Jul 06 22:07:43 route -n Jul 06 22:09:19 route output looks fine, what happens when you get rid of the search line in resolv.conf? Jul 06 22:09:59 nothing changes Jul 06 22:10:01 remember we are using embedded versions of some programs so they might not be behaving exactly the same as on desktop machines Jul 06 22:10:05 bugger Jul 06 22:10:18 what else could it be Jul 06 22:10:39 I also put the search line after the nameserver line and nothing happened Jul 06 22:11:18 I don't know, i will search for more solutions tomorrow Jul 06 22:11:23 Thank you for your help even if it doesn't work for now, I have to quit Jul 06 22:11:53 ok no worries, sorry we didn't fix it :( Jul 06 22:12:42 yes, but at least I know the wlan of the freerunner is not broken because it worked sometimes Jul 06 22:34:13 oh arsebadgers that screws that idea :( for anyone wondering if you can use the kernel from the FSO with a 2007.2 image, alas you cannot yet :( Jul 06 22:34:43 a whole arseload of dma2: channel has nothing loaded errors :( Jul 06 22:36:15 i gotta come up with ideas of apps to write lol. was gonna make a calendar app for the phone but if there doing it already haha. unless i just make a better one hmm... Jul 06 22:36:38 I have an ignorant question... Jul 06 22:36:45 Anyone know how to set the window manager in OM? Jul 06 22:37:08 It's probably the standard way for linux, which I also don't know :-O (it's one of those things I always use a GUI for) Jul 06 22:37:09 wurp2|away, changing it from matchbox? Jul 06 22:37:17 Tig|_: *to* matchbox ;-) Jul 06 22:37:19 For FSO Jul 06 22:37:26 oooooooooooooooooooo :) Jul 06 22:37:40 First step to getting the 2007.2 apps in the environment they expect Jul 06 22:37:55 erm hang on will do some research Jul 06 22:38:09 Well, I could do my own research... Jul 06 22:38:17 This is just always the first step of my research :-) Jul 06 22:38:21 i know for say compiz it was compiz --replace Jul 06 22:38:38 so there might be a flag for the window manager to kill the existing and start Jul 06 22:38:45 wurp2|away, http://xwinman.org/basics.php <-- in there :) Jul 06 22:38:47 i believe metacity has a --replace too Jul 06 22:38:47 SirBob1701: cool, thx Jul 06 22:38:56 Tig|_: awesome, thanks! Jul 06 22:39:08 paths might be different but the concept should be similar Jul 06 22:39:51 SirBob1701, well you could code an app to import contacts / events from different sources that is one area that needs work atm Jul 06 22:40:40 Tig|_: hmm what kind of sources besides sim? outlook, evolution and thunderbird? Jul 06 22:40:54 vcard, bluetooth, ical Jul 06 22:40:58 google apps Jul 06 22:41:03 csv Jul 06 22:41:34 SirBob1701, also which apps are you importing them into Jul 06 22:41:46 the gtk apps or the qt apps? Jul 06 22:41:52 true Jul 06 22:42:15 i'll have to wait till my phone comes this week so i can play with it and see what i like better so i can decide Jul 06 22:42:20 as openmoko progresses there will be a need for a program to make them talk to eachother :) Jul 06 22:42:27 they still coding openmoko in c and python only Jul 06 22:42:35 Tig|_: I think the 2007.2 contact manager already pulls contacts from SIM Jul 06 22:42:48 how are the contacts stored on the phone even? Jul 06 22:43:02 wurp2|away, it might from the sim but not from bt for example Jul 06 22:43:03 I know I wrote a script for it, and right after some Chinese guy said he had a patch that did it, and supported internationalization :-/ Jul 06 22:43:08 Tig|_: true Jul 06 22:43:13 one would think something like sqlite would work well, as it would allow easy access/manipulation/etc of contacts Jul 06 22:43:33 ieatlint: On 2007.2, it's a, er, that standard linux PIM, db Jul 06 22:43:37 ieatlint, well the gtk suite stores it in evolution backend format IIRC and the qt apps use sqlite? Jul 06 22:43:39 but there's a dbus interface that I used Jul 06 22:44:12 s/that standard linux PIM/evolution, I think/ Jul 06 22:44:21 hah, i hate evolution Jul 06 22:44:24 Yeah, what Tig|_ said Jul 06 22:44:42 ieatlint, don't confuse the frontend with the backend of any system :) Jul 06 22:44:54 ieatlint: Yeah, you don't see anything evolution-like Jul 06 22:45:04 which is not to say that it's better :-) Jul 06 22:45:08 infact it is the total opposite :P Jul 06 22:45:10 i've not dealt with the evolution backend, so i guess i just got my opinions set by the frontend Jul 06 22:45:32 my first response was "what the fuck do I do with this?" :) Jul 06 22:46:19 well, i hope my phone gets shipped tomorrow :) Jul 06 22:46:22 Tig|_: That has been my first response with most of the 2007.2 apps :-/ Jul 06 22:46:29 hehe Jul 06 22:46:32 OK, found the fso wm Jul 06 22:46:46 i'll probably end up breaking shit and needing to reload an image, hehe Jul 06 22:47:11 ieatlint, oh you might no break stuff but you will be playing with different images for a bit :) Jul 06 22:48:05 hah Jul 06 22:48:23 i'll just have some annoyed friends who will keep saying "i tried to call you" Jul 06 22:48:50 ieatlint, oh you don't know how much I am having to spend of flowers :P Jul 06 22:49:05 anyone know offhand how to mount a jffs2 file (not FS) Jul 06 22:49:23 Y'all just need to run FSO for now Jul 06 22:49:25 "why is your phone not working? have you broken it again?" Jul 06 22:49:42 wurp2|away, alas no sms on it Jul 06 22:49:47 And never ever decide at 20 min before bedtime to "upgrade your phone real quick" Jul 06 22:49:51 Tig|_: True :-( Jul 06 22:50:03 haha Jul 06 22:50:05 wurp2|away, hahahahahaaa Jul 06 22:50:14 Tig|_: But... if the dbus is done, making a python app for it would prolly be ez Jul 06 22:50:30 or even use one of the existing ones Jul 06 22:50:33 the sms AT commands are insanely simple Jul 06 22:50:34 need a keyboard though Jul 06 22:50:47 Then again, it would also be duplicate work since hopefully shr will work Jul 06 22:50:59 get a usb keyboard or a ps2 to usb adapter Jul 06 22:51:02 imput methods is currently one of the biggest problems atm Jul 06 22:51:05 ieatlint: Yeah, but you'd need to integrate w/ ophoned... which might be easy, dunno Jul 06 22:51:19 and keyboard is the big issue, yeah. You'd have to put one in said python app Jul 06 22:51:29 wurp2|away: it's now called ogsmd :) Jul 06 22:51:43 edistar, is it? Jul 06 22:51:44 edistar: Wow, since when? Jul 06 22:51:55 hey, just want your honest opinion, u guys think i should order ? and how hard is it to dev for it ? Jul 06 22:52:00 gotta go, dinner w/ friends Jul 06 22:52:04 no idea, but it says on freesmartphone.org ;) I only saw that today Jul 06 22:52:08 is it just me or does that sound like a web2.0 pr0n company? :) :) :) Jul 06 22:52:30 would that be a daemon that holds the file lock on the modem so that multiple applications can access it? Jul 06 22:52:32 spdr: how much experience with linux do you have? Jul 06 22:52:42 quite a lot Jul 06 22:52:54 although dev'ing isnt my strong side :\ Jul 06 22:53:47 spdr: well.. I think you should order :) Jul 06 22:54:03 spdr: dev'ing is quite fun, python is easy Jul 06 22:54:24 spdr, depends if you want a user product or a dev/toy platform, and as for the latter, not very - the technologies are the same as you'd find in a desktop, though it's slower, less memory, and smaller screen. Setting up a cross-compiling toolchain, if you use a compiled language, can seem a bit daunting but there are docs. Jul 06 22:54:29 basically, if you want a working phone then don't, if you want a cool toy to play with that occasionally will be working when you are not fiddling with it and will be an ace phone later then order :) Jul 06 22:55:36 that should be working phone *RIGHT NOW* Jul 06 22:55:40 i want a toy and a phone ^_^ the gsm is also messed up/not working? Jul 06 22:55:56 Hi, I have two questions before I'll go buy a FreeRunner. 1: Is it possible to run the usb in hostmode, and connect e.g. a CF cardreader? 2: How fast can you transfer data with this 2.5G? Jul 06 22:56:09 spdr: gsm is working Jul 06 22:56:33 fuzzdk: host mode is possible and transfer data is possible via gprs Jul 06 22:56:42 1) yes 2)5 kBps Jul 06 22:57:26 spdr, gsm works and makes recieves calls fine, as do smses, the sms app / keyboard is a bit of a pain in the arse but is all working, battery life is poor atm untill the powersaving stuff from the FSO is merged back Jul 06 22:57:56 lets say in comparison with a nokia n800 or so, how better functioning is the nokia ? Jul 06 22:58:08 (i know the nokia isnt actually a phone) Jul 06 22:58:10 there need to be more places that deliver food here :( Jul 06 22:58:11 oh i see.. Jul 06 22:58:13 well the freerunner has a phone for a start :P Jul 06 22:58:16 well, openmoko has really good phone features in comparison Jul 06 22:58:16 yeah Jul 06 22:58:32 heh Jul 06 22:58:37 how about voip ? Jul 06 22:58:59 not used an n800 but I understand that the apps on it are more polished Jul 06 22:59:03 Hmm, too slow to use as a GPRS modem then. But sounds usefull as a PDA. Jul 06 22:59:06 no adapted software for it, though certainly no problem to do given that Jul 06 22:59:20 fuzzdk, erm it is infact a gprs modem Jul 06 22:59:33 fuzzdk, GPRS is GPRS. Jul 06 23:00:01 well, voip is still potentially useful Jul 06 23:00:07 at home, or in hotspots Jul 06 23:00:18 Yes. But we have 7.2 mbit (3G) connections here Jul 06 23:00:18 ieatlint, certainly Jul 06 23:00:45 fuzzdk, the point was, it's as fast to use as a gprs mode as anything Jul 06 23:00:52 is the gta03 actually going to have 3g support? or at least edge? Jul 06 23:00:53 spdr, software is at a bit of a weird stage at the moment, best explained by this post : http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ Jul 06 23:01:25 ieatlint, edge has been talked about, but *shrug*. No 3g. Jul 06 23:01:49 ieatlint, as I understand it nothing has been decided, lots of people want things but OM is a small company and atm the biggest thing is getting the freerunner running :) Jul 06 23:01:56 well, i hope edge anyway... can pull ~210kbit on edge here Jul 06 23:02:19 * mjr does find it likely that it'll have edge, but I'm no-one special Jul 06 23:02:34 regardless, the FR is what we have now Jul 06 23:02:48 yeah, and i'm anxious to get mine Jul 06 23:02:59 oooo I wonder, I have just remembered my 3G usb dongle :) I will have to get an adaptor and try it :) Jul 06 23:03:10 was introduced to it by someone i met in a coffee shop who had a neo1973... been anxious since Jul 06 23:03:28 Tig|_, yeah me too, probably, though it'd require an arm-compiled usb_modeswitch... Jul 06 23:03:32 hehe, i was thinking of getting a dongle Jul 06 23:03:49 need to find a decent battery powered usb hub Jul 06 23:04:05 ieatlint, the FR can provide power. Of course, not for _long_ necessarily... Jul 06 23:04:14 mjr, erk, sounds like I am going to have to get my paws dirty and setup a toolchain Jul 06 23:04:15 yeah, exactly Jul 06 23:04:27 and a 3g dongle would be a power hog to feed that modem Jul 06 23:05:22 oh bugger it, I will suffer gprs if there is no hotspot but if I am travelling I will have my eeeeeeepc anyway :) so it can connect via that and usb :) Jul 06 23:05:33 bigger battery :) Jul 06 23:05:38 ieatlint, anyway, I don't find it very productive;using a dongle is cumbersome, and GPRS is ok for much (not all, but much) of the stuff one wants to do on a small screen anyways, and wifi is aplenty. Jul 06 23:06:05 'tis mostly true Jul 06 23:06:16 but there are numerous things that edge can manage that gprs cannot Jul 06 23:06:20 internet radio, for instance Jul 06 23:06:28 aren't there always Jul 06 23:06:46 indeed, it is a drawback, but it certainly didn't stop me from buying Jul 06 23:06:47 well, there was someone insane here who tried streaming video over gprs Jul 06 23:07:14 ieatlint, yeah but considering the running costs of mobile data at the moment I would rather spend my money on a large memory card and load it up when wifi is not available Jul 06 23:07:14 lol... that probably looked nasty Jul 06 23:07:22 said it wasn't very bad, custom-endoded for the bandwidth, but I dunno Jul 06 23:07:46 Tig|, here in the states i pay $20 for unlimited data Jul 06 23:07:51 I think I'll buy one. Even though I would really like 3G. Jul 06 23:07:56 10€ for unlimited :] Jul 06 23:08:06 but then the euro is a real currency ;) Jul 06 23:08:28 $6 buys me email/wap, $20 gets me unlimited unrestricted with a routable ip and access to a nationwide hotspot network Jul 06 23:08:31 ieatlint, cool. it is £10 for 1Gig of data here with a 30 day timeout Jul 06 23:08:59 1 gig isn't a terrible limitation though Jul 06 23:09:01 BTW. Would it be possible to change the firmware and run android on it? Jul 06 23:09:04 free hotspots are getting more common though Jul 06 23:09:25 fuzzdk, possibly that would depend on android Jul 06 23:09:40 fuzzdk, not the provided binaries. It may be perhaps ported over if/when the code is actually freed. Jul 06 23:09:55 i heard something about android being incompatible with the cpu Jul 06 23:10:17 that android required like arm v6 and the FR was arm v5 (or something... probably got the numbers wrong) Jul 06 23:10:18 That is barely possible Jul 06 23:10:22 quite a few national chains do freewifi, including pubs and fast food places, noticed that on the continent too Jul 06 23:10:25 Linux supports all hardware :D Jul 06 23:10:43 FR is ARM4 iirc Jul 06 23:10:52 I thought 4 too Jul 06 23:10:54 and android 5 Jul 06 23:10:56 well that is what it says in the repo :) Jul 06 23:11:02 yeah, ok, that's it then, hehe Jul 06 23:11:06 as i said, probably got the numbers wrong Jul 06 23:11:15 anyway, supposedly that prevents it from being compatible Jul 06 23:11:29 anyway, android is compiled for a later revision of arm, yes, and if the release their stuff sometime as free software as they've implied, it can be compiled for v4 Jul 06 23:11:47 'course, the code generator for the vm will have to be adjusted as well, don't know how big a job it'd be Jul 06 23:11:54 Ok. And if they don't free it there is no point (for me) to run it Jul 06 23:12:04 android apps wouldn't care, being vm apps Jul 06 23:12:16 as I understand it the base will be linux and freesoftware but userland will not be and I did not think they have offered to open that at all Jul 06 23:12:31 exactly, android is java at the high level Jul 06 23:12:44 java is a nasty plague Jul 06 23:12:53 igor321, java, except not ;) Jul 06 23:12:56 as in incompatible Jul 06 23:13:15 is android all above the java line? Jul 06 23:13:19 and people who keep telling me that it's the future because computers are getting faster and it's easier than a low level language need to change careers Jul 06 23:13:41 niklauz, not quite all of it, I don't think, but the application apis and such I do think Jul 06 23:13:56 well, arent fso apps in python? Jul 06 23:14:01 interesting, so it's not really in competition w/ OM as much as jalimo Jul 06 23:14:18 IMHO it doesn Jul 06 23:14:41 igor321: no, they are in python Jul 06 23:14:42 niklauz, indeed I also think it's not in direct competition with OM, though may divert interest nonetheless. Hence I do hope they'll free enough of the stuff for someone to port their VM over. Jul 06 23:14:48 't matter which language the apps are in as long as you have the possibility to write them in a descent language of your own choice Jul 06 23:14:51 igor321: sry, misrea Jul 06 23:14:51 d Jul 06 23:14:56 ieatlint: Just look at how Vista is killing computer performance ;) :D Jul 06 23:15:01 edistar: np Jul 06 23:15:19 and python is looking good for apps! Jul 06 23:15:30 * mjr does like his python Jul 06 23:15:48 * igor321 is looking at his python Jul 06 23:15:52 One thing that might be more interesting than running android on Freerunner would be to able to run the applications for android on freerunner Jul 06 23:16:00 vista displeases me Jul 06 23:16:07 OM made me want to learn python, i've been studying off and on for a few months Jul 06 23:16:14 but then, i'm a linux geek, so that's unsurprising Jul 06 23:16:32 i kinda like vista, installed it for my father Jul 06 23:16:39 doesn't suck as much as they say Jul 06 23:16:52 I guess almost 95% of people who are here are linux geeks ;) Jul 06 23:17:04 igor321: It sucks x) Jul 06 23:17:21 Try flash drive performance :D Jul 06 23:17:31 igor321: can you move windows by holding alt and dragging anywhere? Jul 06 23:17:31 Danker: it least it doesn't run all apps as root Jul 06 23:17:40 i've had to use vista, it sucks Jul 06 23:17:41 Ya... That is good :) Jul 06 23:17:48 zash: in vista? i dunno Jul 06 23:18:04 But the whole idea to have 1GB RAM just to run OS make me sick Jul 06 23:18:12 makes* Jul 06 23:18:19 yeah, funny thing is, wine is like 50 mb Jul 06 23:18:20 even after you turn off that prompt that every 2 min goes "OMG! You clicked a button! That could be dangerous!" Jul 06 23:19:00 igor321: i miss that and middle-click-paste every time i touch a windows box Jul 06 23:19:21 indeed, me too Jul 06 23:19:42 you run into that issue where you highlight text, then close the window and realise you didn't actually copy the text Jul 06 23:20:12 zash: i keep trying the compiz zoom, cause i'm really used to it and stuff, it's frustrating :) Jul 06 23:20:36 althou i haven't touched a ms box in some time :) Jul 06 23:21:01 i miss the corner taps to scale windows by workspace Jul 06 23:21:18 on winxp at least, idk if vista has anything comparable Jul 06 23:21:30 so when is android coming out? Jul 06 23:21:34 this year? Jul 06 23:21:39 i mean the handsets? Jul 06 23:22:01 minimizing windows to find other windows is soo 1995 Jul 06 23:22:08 august or september is the rumour for android Jul 06 23:22:20 already? Jul 06 23:22:22 damn Jul 06 23:22:49 and it's not certain if their java vm will be open source? Jul 06 23:22:56 <|Marco|> has there been made any software for reading the accellerometers at all yet ? Jul 06 23:23:17 anyone know if there are other stacks based on the fso spec? Jul 06 23:23:35 or how hw portable the om/fso stack is? Jul 06 23:24:32 niklauz: FSO is already running on the ezx devices, it's all based on angstrom Jul 06 23:24:39 and OE Jul 06 23:24:44 so it should be quite portable Jul 06 23:25:03 |Marco|, there is a sample app in python that was posted on the planet the other day Jul 06 23:25:05 the FSO code is python afaik? so it would be quite portable too Jul 06 23:25:07 i... i thouht 2007.x was also based on angstrom, no? Jul 06 23:25:22 niklauz: yes Jul 06 23:25:47 * niklauz experienced mind blowage Jul 06 23:25:56 niklauz: why? Jul 06 23:26:08 |Marco|, http://blogs.gnome.org/thos/2008/07/01/openmoko-freerunner-test-application/ Jul 06 23:26:19 so 2007.x was angstrom and ASU isn't, but FSO is? Jul 06 23:26:26 niklauz: it all is angstrom basically Jul 06 23:26:34 i'm obviously misunderstanding something Jul 06 23:26:51 define angstrom, plz? Jul 06 23:27:17 A unit of length equal to 100 pm or 10 -10 m. Jul 06 23:27:27 niklauz, http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/ Jul 06 23:27:35 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%85ngstr%C3%B6m_distribution Jul 06 23:28:06 lol, i love irc Jul 06 23:28:34 i hope heaven has irc & wifi Jul 06 23:28:48 I hope that too Jul 06 23:29:03 I hope hell has that too Jul 06 23:29:34 go check Jul 06 23:29:39 good think, CVirus Jul 06 23:29:58 go check ? Jul 06 23:30:02 wtf .. when did i write that Jul 06 23:30:12 err .. that was meant in the other window .. sorry Jul 06 23:30:21 niklauz: where do you want to put openmoko on? Jul 06 23:30:32 what device Jul 06 23:30:42 freerunner Jul 06 23:30:53 dcordes: bad luck ;) Jul 06 23:31:15 edistar: I was just curious. not probing for htc Jul 06 23:31:20 dcordes: ok :) Jul 06 23:31:55 angrstrom is a part of all these stacks, i guess im uncertain which part, like from what (kernel?) to what (minimal OS?) Jul 06 23:32:44 CVirus: i just realized that was mean, i thought you meant google it :D Jul 06 23:34:30 hehe Jul 06 23:35:13 are there any public figures on freerunner sales? Jul 06 23:35:29 which pulled unhelpful results, sadly Jul 06 23:41:04 what about a device to charge the extra batteries? Jul 06 23:41:32 an old cell phone maybe Jul 06 23:42:06 buy a gophone with that type of battery? Jul 06 23:42:17 thats the ticket Jul 06 23:44:27 "that type of battery" as in neo1973 and/or freerunner battery? Jul 06 23:46:54 is the battery the same in gta01 and 02? Jul 06 23:47:19 what's a gophone ? Jul 06 23:48:28 google says pay as you go Jul 06 23:52:59 hm, batteries aren't the same Jul 06 23:53:48 http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=726# :P Jul 06 23:54:51 just need to work out attaching the battery to it, and you can charge from a wall outlet or usb Jul 06 23:56:04 Do not use this charger to charge NiMH, NiCd, or any other battery type Jul 06 23:56:16 watheck Jul 06 23:56:19 i'm planning on modifying a portable usb hub to use the same battery as the FR, and charge the batteries Jul 06 23:56:33 so will have a powered usb hub, a spare battery, and a standalone battery charger Jul 06 23:56:49 yeah, li-ion batteries are different Jul 06 23:57:06 the battery like communicates with the charger so it knows when it turn off and such Jul 06 23:57:21 lithum only i c Jul 06 23:57:31 yeah Jul 06 23:58:49 i never got a call from my cc company about my order... :-( i'm gonna try to order again Jul 06 23:59:17 if they denied it, they likely won't call... they generally call to confirm a charge Jul 06 23:59:29 i hope i c a tracking # or a shipped confirmation tomorrow Jul 06 23:59:32 try again, if it fails, call your cc company and tell them a purchase you're trying to make is being denied Jul 06 23:59:48 i wish is kne wwhat i was doing wrong, i wanna order quick so i can get the goodies Jul 06 23:59:54 the acc. and stuff Jul 07 00:00:06 they'll help it go through... get them to stay on the phone while you order Jul 07 00:00:19 who OM? Jul 07 00:00:23 my bank called me on the $th an asked if i had made a purchase from openmoko Jul 07 00:00:24 no, your cc company Jul 07 00:00:37 4th@ Jul 07 00:00:51 hmm, mkay Jul 07 00:01:12 i used to work at ikea, and people would get purchases declined all the time Jul 07 00:01:45 they'd move across the country and then try and spend a couple grand there and their cc company would block it... they'd make a 5 min call and then it'd go through Jul 07 00:02:14 at the last i was putting the last 4 didgets of me bank # an it was asking for the last 4 #'s of me ss # Jul 07 00:23:21 whos home Jul 07 00:23:40 ? Jul 07 00:24:40 I'm at work. Kind of like a 2nd home Jul 07 00:27:01 whats the delivery time gonna be for standard shipping on US phones? Jul 07 00:27:43 what does everyone think of the name "Free Runner"? Jul 07 00:41:27 better than neo1973 Jul 07 00:50:02 Does anyone remember the name of the home app on 2007.2? Jul 07 00:50:17 Railer: I hated it at first. Now I just don't think about it; it's just a word. Jul 07 01:25:34 I am trying to get the auto emulation in ubuntu running. I have compiles QEMU source code in Hardy but when it boots I have an unresponsive emulator ... I don;t think I have compiled it incorrectly have I missed something ? Jul 07 01:31:25 What does it do? Jul 07 01:31:52 It will take several-many minutes to boot, as it's 10-40% speed of teh real device Jul 07 01:36:58 SpeedEvil, I get the picture with the 4 icons (phone, Q, Star and Lock) and a message in the middle of the screen saying No Network but all are unresponsive Jul 07 01:39:15 Sorry, not used qemu. Jul 07 01:41:52 SpeedEvil: ok thanks Jul 07 01:42:08 can anyone else help ? Jul 07 01:42:40 You;'ve tried another image? Jul 07 01:58:40 btw what image is the FR shipping w/ ? Jul 07 02:00:59 Greetings, friends. Jul 07 02:03:12 niklauz: i *think* its shipping with the latest stable 2007.2 Jul 07 02:03:15 oy Dave! Jul 07 02:03:16 (from april-ish iirc) Jul 07 02:03:28 please correct me if i'm mistaken Jul 07 02:03:35 It is Jul 07 02:03:43 though I don't think it's as early as april Jul 07 02:04:21 ok Jul 07 02:04:33 i thought i heard april somewhere, but i don't recall where. Jul 07 02:04:46 and i may not be remembering correctly :) Jul 07 02:05:06 April Software Update (ASU) ? Jul 07 02:05:19 One of these terrible meaningless acronyms. Jul 07 02:05:33 hah. Jul 07 02:05:57 so who's got one already ? Jul 07 02:06:25 * ferric doesn't have one. Jul 07 02:06:31 my LUG is trying to arrange a group-buy Jul 07 02:06:49 geterdone Jul 07 02:06:51 interesting. Jul 07 02:07:03 is there a volume discount? Jul 07 02:07:14 yup Jul 07 02:07:24 30 dollars Jul 07 02:07:29 it's like buy 9 get one free Jul 07 02:07:43 that would be cool also people smarter than me could help me get it set up fancy Jul 07 02:07:49 but my lug is generally useless Jul 07 02:07:55 always good ;-) Jul 07 02:08:02 4 g's Jul 07 02:08:08 mine's dubious at best Jul 07 02:08:11 you buy it you buy it! Jul 07 02:08:43 I'm buying one hell or high water, but I WOULD like to hear from earliest adopters Jul 07 02:09:20 comment thread on boingboing made me want to wait a bit. Jul 07 02:09:22 * ferric is going to stick to the gta01 Jul 07 02:09:26 also lack of money :] Jul 07 02:09:45 lol @ lug bashing Jul 07 02:10:37 The powersaving software is in a very rudimentary state. At the moment 12h standby is about the limit. A week standby and 6 hours talk,20 hours mp3 is probable. Jul 07 02:10:50 It's not consumer electronics. Jul 07 02:10:56 consumer-ready Jul 07 02:11:03 o o i was wondering about that Jul 07 02:11:24 It's not even really a functional phone unless you're very technical, and relatively unpicky about stuff like missed calls. Jul 07 02:11:28 but u can buy 1 an help wit the software for no extra cost Jul 07 02:11:35 when u say probable yuo mean thats what it'll be eventually? Jul 07 02:11:53 niklauz: yes - based on understanding the hardware. Jul 07 02:12:02 niklauz: the software simply isn't there yet. Jul 07 02:12:36 if that goal is acheivable that is totally incredible Jul 07 02:12:39 comeon BUY 1 Jul 07 02:13:00 what do you think needs to happen? as in roadblocks or milestones Jul 07 02:13:16 hackage Jul 07 02:13:21 niklauz: about 10+ seperate little power managment tweaks. Jul 07 02:13:41 tell me, i'm very curious about this Jul 07 02:14:03 niklauz: simple, get 'em out there into the hands of hackers who won't be able to stand the shortcomings, and will fix it. Jul 07 02:14:08 i might not even use mine as a phone, so it's a big deal for me Jul 07 02:14:18 :-) Jul 07 02:15:08 the keyboard is needing some att Jul 07 02:15:38 is HWR planned? Jul 07 02:15:48 hwr? Jul 07 02:15:52 handwriting recognition? Jul 07 02:15:56 oh Jul 07 02:16:01 what about RAWR!!! ??? Jul 07 02:16:02 hmm, that'd be nifty Jul 07 02:16:12 bear powered, ver eco-friendly Jul 07 02:19:48 wastrel: what comment on boingboing spooked you ? Jul 07 02:20:43 #3, wurp's Jul 07 02:21:06 mostly the battery life thing which i am very intolerant about Jul 07 02:21:09 I'm not getting 24 hours wait time out of my crappt Motorola razr, that's fer sher Jul 07 02:22:03 as I only get about 9 minutes life outta my ThinkpadT20, 6 hours sound like heaven Jul 07 02:22:26 I only half look at the thing as a phone Jul 07 02:23:29 batteryrefill.com <3 Jul 07 02:28:11 :o **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jul 07 02:59:57 2008