**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 07 02:59:57 2008 Jul 07 03:13:40 speaking of LUGs, anyone NYC-area want to do an openmoko presentation? Jul 07 03:16:17 Hello. I'm looking for any input on which band to buy (850 or 900). Haven't found anything on the wiki to answer my question. Jul 07 03:16:26 I live i north america. Jul 07 03:16:30 in Jul 07 03:16:39 850 Jul 07 03:16:44 If you live in the US, you probably want the 850. Jul 07 03:16:51 There is a link on the sop page Jul 07 03:16:53 I do limited international travel Jul 07 03:17:01 and my carrier is t-mobile Jul 07 03:17:08 which uses 1900 Jul 07 03:17:16 but has roaming deals for 850 Jul 07 03:17:29 So I guess the question is... Jul 07 03:17:43 How much do I really need 850? Jul 07 03:18:06 I've been using a Sony-Erricsson p900 for about five years Jul 07 03:18:12 which is 900/1800/1900 Jul 07 03:18:20 I notice the coverage gaps Jul 07 03:18:33 But it has gotten significantly better Jul 07 03:19:31 what is "sop"? Jul 07 03:25:07 John's using the firewall for IRC again :/ Jul 07 03:25:31 vclark: depends on where you are Jul 07 03:25:37 vclark: shop Jul 07 03:25:55 vc 'which freq2uency do I need' or something. Jul 07 03:35:52 Hmm Jul 07 03:42:39 actually the answer for him is to go to tmobile's website Jul 07 03:42:57 tmobile does have 850 roaming agreements, but only in a handful of places Jul 07 03:44:29 their website will show coverage and tell you if it is 850 or 1900... Jul 07 03:44:41 any metro area is 1900 Jul 07 03:51:55 * ljp waits for gta02 to flash.... Jul 07 03:55:25 where is the phone to US purchasers being shipped from / do we get a tracking number? Jul 07 03:58:56 kdubois: rumor has it that its shipping from fremont, ca on monday Jul 07 03:59:08 givin its from ups, we'll probably get trakcing numbers Jul 07 03:59:55 nullpuppy: thanks! Jul 07 04:00:03 no prob ;) Jul 07 04:00:37 ello puppet Jul 07 04:00:49 What's up guys? Jul 07 04:02:14 not much, playing some d&D Jul 07 04:03:37 4e? Jul 07 04:03:42 yup Jul 07 04:37:42 can I use a freerunner as a voip phone? Jul 07 04:39:24 yes, though, the software to do that likely isn't there yet Jul 07 04:39:56 well, potentially, not necessarily yes (yet) ;) Jul 07 04:41:16 Ok. I don't think I can use it as my every-day phone yet, but if it was a voip phone I'd be able to play with it without too much expense. Jul 07 04:41:59 Maybe I can just get a really cheap plan or something. Jul 07 04:44:18 voip - over - wifi, yes. Jul 07 04:44:31 Not over GPRS - it's got too much delay Jul 07 04:44:45 qtopia can do voip Jul 07 04:45:27 hehe. voip over gprs Jul 07 04:45:57 a few people have suggested using asterix in conjunction jdavis_ if that's an option Jul 07 04:56:57 "push to talk" style communications might work over grps? Jul 07 05:07:52 SpeedEvil: oh, perfect! Jul 07 05:09:21 alphabeat: Use asterisk how? I need to get a voip service anyway, so won't they be the ones with asterisk? Jul 07 05:13:36 Has anyone gotten Freerunner to act as a dial-up modem yet? Jul 07 05:16:54 pmw: is that technically possible ? Jul 07 05:17:00 yes Jul 07 05:17:18 jdavis_: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-May/017310.html Jul 07 05:17:19 With the right config, it can in theory act like a bluetooth modem. Jul 07 05:17:32 alphabeat: thanks, reading now. Jul 07 05:18:10 for DUN, in theory, you should be able to just set the phone as the gateway? Jul 07 05:18:17 hmm, I don't suppose there is an explanation anywhere of the om svn layout is there? Jul 07 05:20:31 What do people here recommend for memory to accompany the freerunner. I see kingston 4GB microSD for about $30, but I don't see anything much larger than that. Jul 07 05:20:59 nullpuppy: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Using_Subversion is this what you're after? Jul 07 05:21:48 jdavis_: there is talk of 8GB working on the mailing lists IIRC http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards Jul 07 05:22:41 alphabeat: thanks again. reading... Jul 07 05:23:52 jdavis_: amazon.com had an 8gb card for like $36 Jul 07 05:24:58 alphabeat: hmm, not really, but that'll do. was more interested in how things were layed out in the repo. Jul 07 05:25:02 nullpuppy: wow, cool. I'll get the phone first, and then experiment from there (although $36 is a cheap experiment). Jul 07 05:25:11 yeah Jul 07 05:26:14 When I get a freerunner, do I even need to tell my provider anything, or can I just pop the SIM card out of my current phone and into the freerunner? Jul 07 05:26:26 jdavis_: pop! Jul 07 05:26:40 SpeedEvil: wow, this is sounding more and more plausible. Jul 07 05:27:16 Some providers may in principle bar unknown IMEIs from their network, but I haven't heard of one that actually does. Jul 07 05:27:43 SpeedEvil: I think I'll need two phones, realistically, so I'll just add a line, which appears to only be about $10 extra Jul 07 05:30:22 I wonder if free runner has support for normal SD cards Jul 07 05:30:30 since they provide one with package ... Jul 07 05:30:58 i think that might be an adapter Jul 07 05:31:12 they said 512MB sd card ... Jul 07 05:31:37 yeah, its a 512mb micro-sd, the std sized one is an adapter Jul 07 05:31:49 so you can read the micro-sd card in a normal card reader or whatever Jul 07 05:32:03 at least tahts what it looks like from the picture Jul 07 05:32:44 aaha , so that is 512MB microsd and an adaptor for normal SD's Jul 07 05:33:09 yeah, and without a camera, 512mb will be pretty decent... unless you plan on using it as an mp3 player Jul 07 05:33:27 or a video player... seeing as it has a hardware mpeg4 decoder Jul 07 05:33:41 yep , good idea! Jul 07 05:34:10 ... or to put maps on it for some sort of gps nav program .... too many ors :( Jul 07 05:34:12 i don't know if that support 8GB micro sd cards yet or not Jul 07 05:35:03 Zoup: FR has a hardware mpeg4 decoder? Jul 07 05:35:29 the hw specs say it does Jul 07 05:35:52 the playback rate at fullscreen is less than desirable though (10fps at 640x480 i think) Jul 07 05:36:12 qvga (320x240) is fine at 25fps says raster Jul 07 05:36:39 SDHC is listed as supported, so the 8G looks like it should work. Jul 07 05:36:53 thats =kinda odd Jul 07 05:36:57 thats kinda odd Jul 07 05:36:58 huh, where is the bottleneck that it can only pull 10fps at vga? Jul 07 05:37:13 with screen that size, it would need to be full screen Jul 07 05:37:36 meh Jul 07 05:39:13 http://www.smediatech.com/product3362.htm is the hardware decoder (the 3362) Jul 07 05:42:24 ieatlint: i'll try and find a source Jul 07 05:43:10 thanks :) Jul 07 05:44:05 ieatlint: here's something: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Media_Player#Questions_and_Answers Jul 07 05:44:16 i'm not entirely sure myself so you'll have to ask raster when he's online next Jul 07 05:44:42 could be the limited bus or the lack of 3d acceleration... Jul 07 05:45:39 well, supposedly that is 3d accel too Jul 07 05:45:51 but yeah, the bus... or perhaps some sort of ram issue Jul 07 05:46:03 ieatlint: this is relevant: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:Video_Player Jul 07 05:46:07 that says it uses "a lot" of flash Jul 07 05:47:08 well, iirc, the 3d-accel is on the same, slow bus as the s-card Jul 07 05:48:04 ah, that could indeed be a problem Jul 07 05:48:23 hmm. have a read of this thread: http://markmail.org/message/lb2tink2w6z4wfca#query:related%3Alb2tink2w6z4wfca+page:1+mid:v6ldwbctupaxshqd+state:results Jul 07 05:49:05 ieatlint: specifically this: http://markmail.org/message/w4nlpxth25cefbra Jul 07 05:52:04 hmm Jul 07 05:52:08 so yeah, a bus bottleneck Jul 07 05:52:22 and i would bet that usb is on that same bus Jul 07 05:54:15 yeah, so, its limited, but not horrible. Jul 07 05:54:18 although some of the stats it says are either typos or something Jul 07 05:54:28 * tessier wonders if/when he will get shipping info for the phone he bought the other day Jul 07 05:54:32 because who even wants video on their phone at 1MBps? Jul 07 05:54:48 tessier_: me too. i want to know when i'll have it in my hands ;) Jul 07 05:54:49 I paid extra for 3 day so hopefully they get it out promptly Jul 07 05:55:03 tessier_: where abouts do you live? Jul 07 05:55:32 nullpuppy: San Diego, CA USA Jul 07 05:55:54 well, it may be possible to also use a different resolution other than vga for playing videos Jul 07 05:56:11 * ieatlint shrugs Jul 07 05:56:34 yeah qvga is entirely possible Jul 07 05:57:07 could be annoying as hell to switch resolutions though, although qvga on such a small screen probably would look just fine Jul 07 05:57:54 it doesnt' look like usb is on the same bus as the glamo: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware Jul 07 05:58:35 S3C2442 is the evaluation board that a lot of stuff is attached to (like the CPU) so maybe not? i'm just speculating Jul 07 05:59:23 well, if that's the case, it potentially could work with like a flash drive in the usb slot Jul 07 05:59:40 wouldn't be the nicest setup, but yeah.. Jul 07 05:59:47 no - th 2442 is the cpu Jul 07 06:00:02 oh ok Jul 07 06:00:16 http://www.meritech.co.kr/products/product_view.php?num=52 Jul 07 06:00:21 looks like a mini computer Jul 07 06:00:44 "embedded device" would be more appropriate Jul 07 06:08:34 The S3C2442 is the SoC - system on a chip. It's got the CPU, UART, LCD driver, ... on it. It can be used in many applicaions - and is in the freerunner Jul 07 06:09:21 ahhsoo Jul 07 06:21:59 what are these!! http://koolu.com/WE-Phone/WE-Phone-Introduction.html , Free runners ? Jul 07 06:23:57 yeah this came up on the mailing list once Jul 07 06:24:39 they call theis phones WE Phone , is free runner is under BSD License ? no sign of openmoko on phones Jul 07 06:25:22 michael shiloh says they're a distributor: http://markmail.org/message/c5yot24r6o7ef2la Jul 07 06:27:19 hahaha, and osx images in the picture.... Jul 07 06:27:48 i bet they wanted people to mumble-jumble "Wii" Jul 07 06:28:16 yeah, probably Jul 07 06:28:24 looks like its supposedly running android Jul 07 06:29:27 When im compiling my package using standalone makefile im getting error, the error is in " URL: http://rafb.net/p/jQBWMU47.html ". can anyone help me in solving this error?? Jul 07 06:30:49 hmm... can't they be sued for misleading advertising ? Jul 07 06:31:43 I mean, this WE-Phone is obviously a FreeeRunner, but AFAIK the features described on the page don't work yet due to software issues Jul 07 06:33:38 polz, like what happened to "Lindows" Jul 07 06:36:24 morning Jul 07 06:37:35 oh hi Jul 07 06:37:38 o hai. Jul 07 06:44:00 huh, maddog is part of koolu Jul 07 06:45:14 ah no way Jul 07 06:45:33 morning Jul 07 06:45:37 oh hai Jul 07 07:10:24 I am using openmoko on motorola a780 phone, however when i am in the applications menu, i cannot scroll down the list Jul 07 07:11:02 good morning Jul 07 07:13:13 morning Jul 07 07:15:11 it seems that i figured out the slider Jul 07 07:15:47 But how do you exit applications like feeder, they seem to get backrounded Jul 07 07:15:58 backgrounded Jul 07 07:18:29 http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/07/06/the-disruptive-potential-of-gps-on-the-iphone-3g Jul 07 07:18:41 Interesting how they say the iPhone is not allowed to be used as a standalone GPS device. Jul 07 07:18:48 OpenMoko won't have that restriction. Jul 07 07:18:57 yeah that's funny Jul 07 07:19:04 against teh developer's ToS Jul 07 07:19:07 I can't wait to see what sort of collaborative GPS based applications are created. Jul 07 07:19:23 We could develop our own map data and upload it via wireless Jul 07 07:19:40 And someone could corral it all into one big database we could all share royalty-free. Jul 07 07:24:11 tessier: http://www.openstreetmap.org/ Jul 07 07:27:24 hello Jul 07 07:28:35 I have seen that the freerunner-900 is ended, is there a date of availability? is possible preorder? Jul 07 07:36:47 fale: did you ask if pulster.de has them? Jul 07 07:38:38 pulster.de doesn't have Jul 07 07:39:28 methril, lindi-:than I have to wait an undefined time? Jul 07 07:39:48 like me, fale Jul 07 07:40:13 methril: oh? Jul 07 07:40:14 a lot of people is waiting the next PVR Jul 07 07:40:19 methril: uff, I have $400 for other 3 days and after I have to return them -_- Jul 07 07:40:23 methril: PVR? Jul 07 07:40:33 have to return them? Jul 07 07:40:33 the next mass market factory Jul 07 07:40:45 return them? Jul 07 07:40:56 lindi-: weird thing, but if I don't spend them I lose them Jul 07 07:41:04 methril: is there a date? Jul 07 07:41:07 *data Jul 07 07:41:23 not yet Jul 07 07:41:25 fale: sounds very odd :) Jul 07 07:41:34 at least i didn't read anything in the ml Jul 07 07:41:34 lindi-: I know Jul 07 07:41:59 methril: uff, that is the only way? Jul 07 07:42:20 i think so Jul 07 07:42:39 fale: can't you at least order from pulster.de now and they'll ship them when they get them? Jul 07 07:42:39 hi geaaru Jul 07 07:43:07 lindi-: I'll have to check it, because if it is, is very good :) Jul 07 07:43:30 ask pulster, but before that release, they did'nt accept preorders Jul 07 07:43:44 i don't know if that changed now Jul 07 07:44:05 i only know we ordered last wednesday or so Jul 07 07:44:06 lindi-: pulster wants € ;_; Jul 07 07:44:08 hi Jul 07 07:44:12 fale: sure Jul 07 07:44:20 fale: where are you? ;) Jul 07 07:44:38 methril: We start sales 07/05/2008 (5.July). Our first batch of units are sold out. You can make a order now to be sure to get a freerunner with our next delivery which we expect 25.July. Jul 07 07:44:53 lindi-: 3 days in usa, and after in ita Jul 07 07:44:56 nice, i didn't read it Jul 07 07:45:04 fale: but ita has EUR so it should be no problem? Jul 07 07:45:16 fale: How many phones were sold? Jul 07 07:45:32 tessier: no idea Jul 07 07:45:48 lindi-: but I have 400$ not 400€ ;) Jul 07 07:46:25 oh right, 329 eur is 516 dollars nowadays Jul 07 07:46:57 lindi-: in fact Jul 07 07:46:59 i bought mine at 299 eur (470 dollars) Jul 07 07:47:06 fale: so 400$ would be super cheap :) Jul 07 07:47:19 lindi-: from the official store is 400$ Jul 07 07:47:25 ok Jul 07 07:47:38 When I installing library in moko using toolchain , in make i got this error:grep: /space/fic/openmoko-daily/neo1973/work/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/pango-1.18.3-r0/pango-1.18.3/pango/libpangoft2-1.0.la: No such file or directory" Jul 07 07:48:11 fale: with taxes its cheaper for me to buy from pulster Jul 07 07:48:22 lindi-: you have already received yours? Jul 07 07:48:26 fale: not yet Jul 07 07:48:31 lindi-: I see Jul 07 07:48:36 fale: they emailed that it'll take at least this month Jul 07 07:48:44 fale: I'm wondering if we sold out 100 phones or 100,000. :) Jul 07 07:48:46 I could not figure out from where it's searching for that path, any one has idea Jul 07 07:48:49 lindi-: maybe, I haven't counted the taxes Jul 07 07:48:56 fale: 22% VAT here Jul 07 07:49:08 lindi-: de? Jul 07 07:49:12 Finland Jul 07 07:49:25 tessier: imho more on 100 ;) Jul 07 07:49:29 fale: but if I pay from germany it is ok if the vat has been paid in germany Jul 07 07:49:32 lindi-: I see Jul 07 07:49:43 fale: but if i order from USA i need to pay 22% VAT Jul 07 07:49:51 s/pay/buy/ :) Jul 07 07:50:00 lindi-: I think that italy is 17% VAT Jul 07 07:50:49 lindi-: do you know if someone has already the freerunner? Jul 07 07:52:11 Hopefully my phone will be shipped promptly. I'll be annoyed if I paid extra for 3-day and it ships like the OLPC did. Jul 07 07:52:37 fale: at least i don't know anybody in Finland who would have gotten his freerunner yet Jul 07 07:52:50 lindi-: I see Jul 07 07:53:03 lindi-: I have a couple question :D Jul 07 07:53:31 the "Helsinki I" order should be here soon i guess Jul 07 07:54:11 lindi-: I'll checkout and probably join a group Jul 07 07:58:03 is there a patch for the injector for the wifi driver? Jul 07 07:59:51 tessier: are you the same tessier? Jul 07 08:01:04 ozzloy: Yes. The One And Only. Accept no immitations! Jul 07 08:01:15 have you a fr yet? Jul 07 08:02:01 ozzloy: I ordered one July 4th. Paid for 3 day shipping. Hope it arrives soon. Jul 07 08:02:11 Would love to be able to show it off at the KPLUG meeting this Thursday. Jul 07 08:02:39 i gots one as well, same shipping Jul 07 08:02:50 ooh i can go to meetings now! Jul 07 08:04:04 ozzloy: Has it arrived yet? Jul 07 08:04:23 tessier: no T_T Jul 07 08:04:37 tessier: idk if it's been shipped yet Jul 07 08:07:24 * Tanuva is just opening his freerunner-packet... Jul 07 08:07:35 arg Jul 07 08:08:43 [holding his baby in his hands] feels just perfect... Jul 07 08:09:00 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4508 10/developers/erin_yueh/pythonEFL-sudoku/data/theme/sudoku.edc: add new keyboard 1-9 (Erin Yueh) Jul 07 08:09:45 Tanuva: no smoke yet? Jul 07 08:09:48 Hey guys, sorry to bother you. My Neo Freerunner just arrived "jeej" but there is something wrong with the pincode it asks after the bootup. Is this the Pin of my SimCard ? Jul 07 08:10:17 Now it only says "registering..." at the top Jul 07 08:10:45 lindi-: heh Jul 07 08:13:37 niki_: i just fetched the rootfs image, what is the text that asks for the pin exactly? Jul 07 08:13:42 or is it image? Jul 07 08:13:54 lindi-: no smok Jul 07 08:13:57 "pin" is too vague to grep for Jul 07 08:13:58 it is a nice looking popup box Jul 07 08:14:20 it's when the phone is already booted up Jul 07 08:14:27 niki_: what's the text exactly? Jul 07 08:14:44 I have to reboot the phone, second... Sry Jul 07 08:15:27 niki_: do u have the freerunner? Jul 07 08:16:01 Yes Jul 07 08:16:09 Just arrived here Jul 07 08:16:12 its alive! Jul 07 08:16:43 i am trying to figure out how to get all source code :) Jul 07 08:16:48 git clone git://git.openmoko.org/git/openmoko.git openmoko Jul 07 08:16:52 at least i guess Jul 07 08:17:21 Hi, what is the login/password in openmoko console ? (i use Qemu) Jul 07 08:17:24 so after the intro music, the popup asks me Jul 07 08:17:26 Enter PIN Jul 07 08:17:56 it's a regular window that I can move aropund Jul 07 08:18:21 ok, now the phone blocks when moving it around. Do I need a more recent image or smth ? Jul 07 08:18:52 Binary file ./usr/bin/phone-kit matches Jul 07 08:19:06 (from http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080706/Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080706-om-gta02.rootfs.tar.gz in case you wonder) Jul 07 08:19:47 strings returns quite a large number of options: corporate PIN,corporate PUK,PIN,PUK,SIM PIN,new SIM PIN,new SIM PUK,PIN2,PUK2,network PIN,network PUK,network subset PIN,network subset PUK,service provider PIN,service provider PUK Jul 07 08:20:04 wow Jul 07 08:20:22 well, I'm going to put it back in another phone, delete the pin from the simcard Jul 07 08:20:31 and then try again Jul 07 08:26:09 i am trying to figure out how to fetch the sources :) Jul 07 08:37:25 ok, found it from http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/src/phone-kit/ Jul 07 08:37:42 niki_: i think it should be the PIN of our SIM Jul 07 08:37:49 niki_: it doesn't accept it? Jul 07 08:37:58 nope Jul 07 08:38:20 hmm Jul 07 08:38:29 niki_: and it works in some other phone? Jul 07 08:38:29 But I can't see what I'm typing Jul 07 08:38:32 yes Jul 07 08:39:35 maybe it's something with the keyboard Jul 07 08:39:41 I mean the touch screen keyboard Jul 07 08:40:44 hmm it doesn't seem to work Jul 07 08:42:18 Apperently there is no option to turn the pin off in my other cellphone Jul 07 08:42:35 If I could do just that my problem wil be solved I guess Jul 07 08:43:05 cool, the openmoko has vi Jul 07 08:44:00 Is it normal I only have 5 applications or so ? Jul 07 08:44:25 niki_: how can you see that if the touch screen does not work? Jul 07 08:44:40 the touch screen works Jul 07 08:45:01 but it's the box where I have to enter my numbers Jul 07 08:45:01 but the virtual keyboard there doesn't? Jul 07 08:45:04 yes Jul 07 08:45:37 niki_: did you try entering text to some other application than phone-kit? Jul 07 08:45:45 (phone-kit asks for the PIN) Jul 07 08:45:56 Does anyone happen to know how I can classify a project in the "Trove Software Map" for Openmoko projects? I've got a newly approved project which I want to classify. Jul 07 08:45:57 yes Jul 07 08:46:08 I have used the terminal Jul 07 08:46:27 and tried the dialer Jul 07 08:47:13 niki_: and it doesn't work? Jul 07 08:47:22 nope Jul 07 08:47:28 I mean entering text does work Jul 07 08:47:31 and numbers Jul 07 08:47:40 oh, but PIN doesn't? Jul 07 08:47:42 but ofcourse I can't dial anything without the PIN code Jul 07 08:47:45 nope Jul 07 08:47:51 rright Jul 07 08:48:14 and I'm 100% sure it's the right pin, I tried my other phone again 5 min ago Jul 07 08:49:05 niki_: but you don't get "wrong pin" warning either? Jul 07 08:49:22 nope Jul 07 08:49:25 Nevermind - I found the answer. Jul 07 08:49:29 niki_: sounds like a bug :) Jul 07 08:49:55 It only says wrong PIN after I try 3 times Jul 07 08:50:05 but normaly a SIM card should be blocked then Jul 07 08:50:22 but it keeps working fine in my other phone Jul 07 08:50:44 so my guess is that it's not reading the pin correctly from the SIM or smth Jul 07 08:51:18 I'm going to search my place for another phone, maybe I can disable the PIN code Jul 07 08:51:38 niki_: hm Jul 07 08:57:52 niki_: i can't find any mention of a similar bug Jul 07 08:58:00 strange Jul 07 08:58:07 niki_: can you please register at http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ and report it as new bug (ticket)? Jul 07 08:58:35 niki_: tell me the url so that i can add myself to watchlist and get email on bug activity Jul 07 08:58:40 Yeah no problem, just gonna try 1 more thing Jul 07 08:58:52 I changed the PIN code to smth else Jul 07 08:59:05 niki_: if this is really a bug many many people are going to hit it soon :) Jul 07 08:59:33 Strange that nobody mentioned it already Jul 07 08:59:53 niki_: maybe it only happens in some specific case Jul 07 09:00:01 niki_: you should include as much details as you can Jul 07 09:01:38 In another phone I changed the "ask for PIN code" setting, and now the Neo doesn't ask for a pincode, but it can't find a network neither Jul 07 09:01:45 registereing... Jul 07 09:14:22 niki_: where are you, are you sure you've got hte right frequency band phone? Jul 07 09:15:05 I've just bought the GSM 850 model. I live in the UK. Jul 07 09:15:10 This should still work, right? Jul 07 09:15:58 I tend to travel between the US and UK, once or twice a year, so Jul 07 09:15:58 the frequency can't make it give a pin issue Jul 07 09:16:13 StealthCP, you should've gotten the 900 Jul 07 09:16:27 most metropolitan areas in the US use 1900 Jul 07 09:16:32 I see Jul 07 09:16:34 unless you're hitting up the countryside Jul 07 09:16:34 http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/cou_gb.shtml Jul 07 09:16:50 albeit, 850 is used a little bit in some metro areas with ATT Jul 07 09:16:56 VODAFONE Ltd Jul 07 09:16:56 Jul 07 09:16:56 GSM 900/1800 Jul 07 09:16:59 From what I see here, it appears networks are on 1800 Jul 07 09:17:11 which both Freerunners support, yes? Jul 07 09:17:23 yes Jul 07 09:17:26 StealthCP: use t-mobile I think Jul 07 09:17:32 stevenSn: that's not the point Jul 07 09:17:34 900 is used a bit more on the continent though Jul 07 09:17:43 hmm Jul 07 09:17:51 there are no 900s left in stock it seems Jul 07 09:17:53 StealthCP: the problem is that if 900 is used in an area you won't get it Jul 07 09:17:54 900 is mostly europe Jul 07 09:18:10 the 900 hasn't been on sale for the openmoko.com store Jul 07 09:18:17 StealthCP: however - if you're US/UK only - t-mobile will work well. Jul 07 09:18:19 i ordered from the eurpean reselles Jul 07 09:18:37 yeah, tmobile in the US exclusively uses 1900mhz in metropolitan areas Jul 07 09:19:00 rural areas sometimes roam onto other networks (for free), which may use 850... but never in big cities Jul 07 09:19:03 StealthCP: t-mobile does not have a 900 licence in the UKI I mean Jul 07 09:19:41 the correct one for the US is the 900, not the 850? Jul 07 09:19:46 I see. Well, I've purchased the 850, so I'll need to stick with this Jul 07 09:19:52 hmm, ok Jul 07 09:19:54 if this is so Jul 07 09:20:02 i still don't quite get why it's not a quadband phone Jul 07 09:20:02 then when would you get the 850 model? Jul 07 09:20:04 niki_: sorry - I was talking of t-mobile-UK Jul 07 09:20:19 nikluaz, 850 is correct for the US Jul 07 09:20:33 leat: simply as the design was found to be triband only when 02 was in late design Jul 07 09:20:41 ow sorry, diddn't see somebody was tlaking to me Jul 07 09:20:45 yeas I have the right one Jul 07 09:20:51 the 900 for Belgium Jul 07 09:20:52 o ok, i thought so Jul 07 09:21:19 why did the 900's sell out so quickly? Jul 07 09:21:20 SpeedEvil, yeah, but i can buy a gsm quadband modem for $146 with an AT interface just like the openmoko... Jul 07 09:21:36 ieatlint: however. Jul 07 09:21:37 $184 if i want GPS built in Jul 07 09:22:02 ieatlint: That would cover the whole BOM of the phone - total. Jul 07 09:22:10 bom? Jul 07 09:22:17 ieatlint: price of compoennts Jul 07 09:22:37 i somehow doubt the markup on the phone is $200 Jul 07 09:23:09 nikluaz, most of the 900 phones were sendt to europa Jul 07 09:23:11 ieatlint: It's not that simple. Tehre is cost of components, then there is cost of assembly. Jul 07 09:23:42 yeah, and testing, packaging, shipping, etc Jul 07 09:23:43 ieatlint: But to tget back to the point - you generally don't want a module in a phone. It adds lots too much volume. Jul 07 09:24:10 well, i remember reading that the radio is quadband in the FR Jul 07 09:24:19 but there was some other sort of bottleneck forcing triband Jul 07 09:24:21 ieatlint: you need to integrate it on the mainboard, and open chipsets are not easily available. Jul 07 09:24:26 I'm flashing it, and will see if it makes any difference Jul 07 09:24:32 ieatlint: the design was fixed as a triband Jul 07 09:24:41 * ieatlint shrugs Jul 07 09:24:54 ieatlint: The triband was known to work. The quadband design might hav hade problems. Jul 07 09:24:56 i'm not trying to be overly critical, mind you Jul 07 09:25:13 ah Jul 07 09:25:19 well, that's a pretty good reason then, hehe Jul 07 09:25:39 ieatlint: the GSM section did not change from neo1973 to FR Jul 07 09:25:59 yeah, admittedly the lack of edge nearly made me decide against it Jul 07 09:26:08 :/ Jul 07 09:26:22 here's to hoping san francisco actually gets a free city-wide wifi network in the near future Jul 07 09:27:26 that, and i plan to buy a 3g dongle for my laptop when tmobile releases one and turns on their 3g towers here Jul 07 09:28:31 ah crap. my build failed while compiling python-pygobject-native: gobject-generate-constants >> constants.py | /bin/sh: gobject-generate-constants: command not found Jul 07 09:29:10 should that be on my host system? Jul 07 09:31:15 Hmm. Jul 07 09:31:29 * SpeedEvil finds accelerometers with a 4uv/sqrt(Hz) noise. Jul 07 09:36:55 give me som NoiZe!! Jul 07 09:36:56 grmpf. there's no usb0-interface coming up although neo is in NOR/usbnet is loaded/lsusb lists the neo. anything I'm missing? Jul 07 09:38:48 do you have 'gobject-generate-constants' in your path? Jul 07 09:39:53 python-pygobject-native have it in "/data/Data/fso/build/tmp/work/x86_64-linux/python-pygobject-native-2.14.2-r0/" in the 'constants.py' target.. Jul 07 09:43:55 HauDyrArb: I was just surprised at the accuracy. For context, after a minute of integration, these would be out by some 70cm, compared to some 250m from the ones in the FR. Jul 07 09:44:13 (unfortunately, these are too large to go in FR) Jul 07 09:44:35 Just flashed the Neo with the latest stable root file system. Still can't connect to a network Jul 07 09:45:15 i also thourght that 4uv sounds small Jul 07 09:45:22 HauDyrArb: ug Jul 07 09:45:38 aaah Jul 07 09:45:38 oops Jul 07 09:46:22 anyway micro g's or v's is small :-) Jul 07 09:46:39 niki_... are you using a 3g sim? Jul 07 09:46:51 harzi: the ones in the Wii accelerometer are 50* as noisy. Jul 07 09:46:59 HauDyrArb: Jul 07 09:47:12 "Hej guys, I had got my today and i have tested it, but my 3G card Jul 07 09:47:12 doesn't function with it. he can't find a network and is unable to get Jul 07 09:47:12 the pin. (i have disabled pin with another phone, then there was only Jul 07 09:47:12 the problem that he doesn't find a network)" Jul 07 09:47:15 from the mailing list Jul 07 09:47:17 Not that I am aware of Jul 07 09:47:18 hmm Jul 07 09:47:24 SpeedEvil, as the FR or the ones you found Jul 07 09:47:27 They don't need so much precision, since they've got the infrared location spotting to help :) Jul 07 09:47:48 ieatlint which image are you using? Jul 07 09:47:57 ieatlint and which carrier is your sim from? Jul 07 09:47:58 HauDyrArb: the ones I've found - compared to teh wii - the ones in the FR are a thousand times worse than the ones in the FR. Jul 07 09:48:23 ieatlint: looks like that's the same problem I have, damn Jul 07 09:48:24 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/020340.html Jul 07 09:48:29 it's a huge thread Jul 07 09:48:45 35 or so posts Jul 07 09:49:09 roh, i've not gotten my phone yet, it's niki that has the problem Jul 07 09:51:53 How many Satelites does i need to have a fix point ? Jul 07 09:51:59 with freerunner Jul 07 09:52:08 ern/: at least 3 Jul 07 09:52:17 ernst: for a 2D fix, 4 for a 3D fix Jul 07 09:52:26 yeah, 3 is the mathematical min Jul 07 09:52:30 ernst: are you having problems getting a fix? Jul 07 09:53:44 yes Jul 07 09:53:56 i use cat /dev/ttySAC1 Jul 07 09:53:59 ernst: been outside for 15 min or so? Jul 07 09:54:08 and tango gps and gpsd and gps sight Jul 07 09:54:23 ernst: you're getting reported sats, and the time is right? Jul 07 09:54:33 but i stay 1 hour in the garden withut tree's and i have only one satlite Jul 07 09:54:37 Odd Jul 07 09:55:20 I'd look over the mailing list for GPS threads in the last few days. Jul 07 09:56:27 thanks Jul 07 09:57:16 http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/666 Jul 07 09:58:08 It's a 12 month old tread. Hope it still will be fixed Jul 07 09:59:46 but it's not for the freerunner Jul 07 09:59:48 ieatlint niki_ i've just wrote a followup to the thread on openmoko-community with my tests and results Jul 07 10:01:01 hopefully it's that simple Jul 07 10:01:09 i only have a 2g sim myself, so i'm not too concerned Jul 07 10:02:32 i've also a spare sim card here, still in its credit card sized plastic punchout Jul 07 10:02:51 yeah.. still its weird.. Jul 07 10:03:01 ok will try that Jul 07 10:03:28 if i had access to a sim-tracer i would log the process and see if the sim does any weird shit like try to access STK or so in that moment Jul 07 10:03:43 btw.. afaik STK is deactivated on om Jul 07 10:07:03 i love sim cards Jul 07 10:08:21 Hi. I had a look at a Freerunner yesterday, and I’m wondering what softwarestack that was. What comes preinstalled on them, and in what version? Jul 07 10:09:03 nomeata: it's a GTK version of the software - 2007.2 IIRC. Jul 07 10:09:30 SpeedEvil: thx. Is that still the recommended one, or should users upgrade? (I’m probably getting my freerunner today) Jul 07 10:09:40 nomeata: it's at the moment a barely functional normal phone, that is outperformed by any phone at all, even the cheapest. Jul 07 10:10:45 nomeata: tehre are at teh moment three software stacks, ASU, the 2007.2 one, and FSO. Jul 07 10:11:09 Where is it... Jul 07 10:11:32 There was a URL someone posted explainign the difference. Jul 07 10:11:36 anyway. Jul 07 10:11:40 http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ Jul 07 10:11:46 That's the bunny. Jul 07 10:11:55 roh: just change the pin to 0000, still not worky Jul 07 10:12:31 I saw that blog post, but it’s still not clear what stack is the best for daily telephoning use Jul 07 10:13:03 nomeata: the 2007.2 one probably at the moment. That may change dramatically. Jul 07 10:13:28 so no upgrade necessary. Jul 07 10:13:51 Well - if you're expecting it to be a funcitonal phone - it's basically not at the moment. Jul 07 10:13:58 is the package manager capable of upgrading itself, similar to apt-get upgrade, or do I usually re-flash the phone Jul 07 10:14:04 It's a hacking platform that may have some incidental phone technology. Jul 07 10:14:09 It's a hacking platform that may have some incidental phone software. Jul 07 10:14:18 Well, doing phone calls and writing SMS is all I need anyways :-) Jul 07 10:14:19 flashing is the usual way at the moment. Jul 07 10:14:25 ok, thx Jul 07 10:14:42 nomeata: even that functionality tends to still be a bit flakey Jul 07 10:14:42 This should hopefully improve soon. Jul 07 10:16:03 and what’s the best place to be kept up-to-date? the community-mailinglist? Jul 07 10:16:16 nomeata: that and here Jul 07 10:16:43 ok, great. I’m looking forward to getting my device :-) Jul 07 10:17:32 Hm, kernel suspend works in general, but after some time the phone just not wakes again. The GSM chip is still logged into the net, but the display does not come up again and USB networking doesn't work, too. Jul 07 10:18:11 pkern: hi :-9 Jul 07 10:19:05 pkern: try using mwester's kernel image Jul 07 10:19:57 nomeata: No SMS yet. Jul 07 10:20:15 on the freerunner? Jul 07 10:20:26 pkern: SMS works for me - GTA01 with the 2007.2 - I see no reason why it wouldn't work on FR. Jul 07 10:20:27 polz: Do you have a pointer, by chance? (And yes, Freerunner.) Jul 07 10:20:38 pkern: do SMS get lost when you receive them while having the sim card in the freerunner, or can you read them after pluggin them in a regular phone Jul 07 10:20:42 SpeedEvil: Yeah, sorry, meant something else. ;-) SMS works. Jul 07 10:20:45 pkern: oh, nevermind you mean _that_ SMS :-) Jul 07 10:21:06 pkern: from here:http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Repositories Jul 07 10:21:09 nomeata: I lost all my SMS when reflashing. So I guess they're saved in the phone. Jul 07 10:21:28 pkern: there's a link to: http://moko.mwester.net/ Jul 07 10:21:35 polz: Yep, found it, thanks. (: Jul 07 10:22:23 btw, does bluetooth work for anyone with a neo1973 and a recent kernel image ? Jul 07 10:23:17 The images are pretty "old", though. Jul 07 10:25:09 pkern: but they're the only ones that work for me Jul 07 10:25:18 at least on my neo1973 Jul 07 10:25:21 in my experience with gsm, the modem will download the sms to the sim, and the phone will then read it from there Jul 07 10:25:46 then, depending on the phone, or how it's configured, it'll leave the sms on the sim, or copy the sms from the sim to its own database Jul 07 10:26:19 so in theory, if the phone's software doesn't support sms, it'll still go onto the sim... and if you brush up on the modem's AT commands, you can read it from a terminal Jul 07 10:27:21 ok Jul 07 10:27:40 nomeata: At least you could check with libgsmd-tool, if you fix the SEGV. ;) Jul 07 10:28:52 pkern: have you already set up a qemu-thingy for testing and developing? Jul 07 10:29:33 nomeata: I had. Was pretty easy. I would have to resetup it to target openmoko-devel instead of qtopia, though, I guess. Jul 07 10:29:40 polz: Also the neod patch? Jul 07 10:30:02 pkern: or installed debian on the freerunner? :-) ( http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian ) Jul 07 10:30:43 nomeata: I hate that ipkg is called opkg, I mistyped so often... ;-) Jul 07 10:32:06 pkern: do you thinks it’s possible to create a few proper .debs with the phone-specific apps so that we can use apt-get on the phone for updates? Jul 07 10:40:08 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4509 10/developers/erin_yueh/pythonEFL-sudoku/src/sudoku_ui.py: add number keyboard, clear callback, button clicked callback (Erin Yueh) Jul 07 10:40:58 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4510 10/developers/erin_yueh/pythonEFL-sudoku/data/theme/sudoku.edc: modify number buttons (Erin Yueh) Jul 07 10:42:09 it would be cool to install debian on the phone and then be able to run apt-get install openmoko and then you get all the Moko goodies on top of debian Jul 07 10:42:26 Debian ? Yuk ! :-) Jul 07 10:42:57 Ainulindale: yuk ? why yuk ? Jul 07 10:43:04 I don't like Debian. Jul 07 10:43:13 Ainulindale: why ? :) Jul 07 10:43:15 what's your poison, Ainulindale? Jul 07 10:43:16 Ainulindale, sad for you Jul 07 10:43:20 Because it sucks :-) Jul 07 10:43:32 Ainulindale: why we use something that sucks ? :) Jul 07 10:43:42 And more seriously, I prefer Gentoo because I can master every inch of my system Jul 07 10:43:52 I remember one time I had to build a really tiny system with a pdf reader Jul 07 10:43:54 * ieatlint high fives Ainulindale Jul 07 10:43:55 * HauDyrArb cant understand Debian sucks.... DOES NOT COMPUTE!! Jul 07 10:43:55 Ainulindale: why zillion of people built their distribution based on something that sucks ? :) Jul 07 10:43:58 I tried to apt-get install xpdf Jul 07 10:44:04 portage rules :) Jul 07 10:44:06 Impossible to install without esd Jul 07 10:44:19 Why would I install something to read sound in order to be able to read pdf ?! Jul 07 10:44:20 Ainulindale: Did you report this bug? Jul 07 10:44:25 It wasn't a bug ! Jul 07 10:44:33 That's what is saddening me Jul 07 10:44:43 well , maybe problem is between chair and keyboard :) Jul 07 10:44:58 Ainulindale: If it's installing extra stuff it sounds like a bug to me.... Jul 07 10:45:01 Oh, yeah, because there's surely a xpdf-without-esd to install :-) Jul 07 10:45:16 Ainulindale: Exactly! :)) Jul 07 10:45:23 broonie: in fact it was a dependency of a dependency of xpdf which was built against esd Jul 07 10:45:27 whats the difference between tar.gz and jffs2-rootfilesystems? Jul 07 10:45:32 Ainulindale: Yes, I know. Jul 07 10:45:37 And that's what I don't like in Debian Jul 07 10:45:37 IIRC it's been fixed now. Jul 07 10:45:41 That and the fact that it sucks Jul 07 10:45:50 Tanuva, other's a tar archive, other's a ready-to-flash image file Jul 07 10:45:50 And the stupid politics about free/non-free Jul 07 10:46:08 (If my english is fuzzy please excuse me, I'm ill and steaming right now) Jul 07 10:46:09 i'm not quite as critical, but i feel that gentoo's portage system has significant advantages in the way it works Jul 07 10:46:13 (Trying to keep my lungs within me) Jul 07 10:46:15 Ainulindale: well , you see , debian has binary packages , thats best way to provide binary packages :) you dont build packages in debian Jul 07 10:46:16 mjr: arr! I could have guessed that... Jul 07 10:46:31 Zoup_: I know, I know, but as I said, it doesn't make sense to me Jul 07 10:46:33 Ainulindale: You run into trouble with the people who install the library in question looking for sound support then get upset if it doesn't work. Jul 07 10:46:38 I don't want to install things that aren't useful. Jul 07 10:46:47 broonie: Yep I know Jul 07 10:46:55 But that's what I think is a problem Jul 07 10:47:04 Ainulindale: well , wasting processor on building every packages does not make any sense to me as well :) Jul 07 10:47:07 Their choice was their choice, to support a specific set of functionalities Jul 07 10:47:14 Ainulindale: i cant imagine doing that on 250-300 production servers Jul 07 10:47:15 But for my part I don't want to build X when I don't need it Jul 07 10:47:24 Zoup_: "wasting" ? Jul 07 10:47:36 Zoup_, it's a one-time affair, and you can distribute the compilation or pre-compile packages as you specifically want them on other computers Jul 07 10:47:38 Ainulindale: Waste of time , processing power Jul 07 10:47:38 Like I say, that particular one has been resolved so that you can do what you want; if you run into trouble with stuff like this you really should report it to whoever provided stuff (Debian in this case) rather than bitching on IRC. It may just be nobody noticed yet. Jul 07 10:47:44 When you have 250-300 prod servers, there's a fair chance that they are the same Jul 07 10:47:52 In that case you bild your image distro on one gentoo server Jul 07 10:47:57 And then deploy the binary packages on every other one Jul 07 10:47:58 ieatlint: thats waste of time and resources :) Jul 07 10:48:00 According to your needs Jul 07 10:48:02 gentoo is more efficient once working Jul 07 10:48:05 And that's not waste Jul 07 10:48:07 Ainulindale: no , in many cases they are not the same :) Jul 07 10:48:26 meh, i disagree that it's a waste Jul 07 10:48:27 ieatlint: indeed , when you GET it working , which is time and resource wasting :) Jul 07 10:48:31 Zoup_: You are telling me that you need this specific option of apache activated on one, and that on another one ? Jul 07 10:48:39 Ainulindale, OK you just stick with Gentoo then we will use Debian :-) Jul 07 10:48:40 If that's the case you will waste the same amount of time in debian Jul 07 10:48:59 Zoup_, i type "emerge system" and come back 6 hours later ... or better yet, i type that and go to bed ... done. Jul 07 10:49:08 Ainulindale: nop , i do apt-get install apache2 on all of them :) not compiling anything Jul 07 10:49:20 broonie: I don't use Debian so I don't have to report that, no :-) Jul 07 10:49:33 ieatlint: humm ... you dont have 250-300 customers and angry boss do you ? :) 6 hours , gush :) Jul 07 10:49:41 I installed it once, saw that it wasn't fulfilling my needs, installed gentoo Jul 07 10:49:53 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r138725d818be 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade splinter as of Chia-I Wu's request Jul 07 10:49:53 openmoko: 03olv 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r4c041c705759 10/packages/ (10 files in 2 dirs): add/update more maps Jul 07 10:49:54 openmoko: 03olv 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r37b7995e6793 10/conf/checksums.ini: add/update checksums of maps Jul 07 10:49:57 Zoup_, no, but if i did, i'd standardise my hardware, and create binary packages for it Jul 07 10:50:10 Ainulindale: Ok , your need are not god needs, so IF gentoo works for you , it does not mean that DEBIAN sucks :) right ? Jul 07 10:50:34 No, it means that I spent ten minutes trolling saying that debian sucks just to see if you would follow :-) Jul 07 10:50:35 ieatlint: impossible in enterprise , even in single datacenter you have to server zillion of different hardwares Jul 07 10:50:38 But still, I think it sucks :-) Jul 07 10:50:51 Ainulindale: hehehe :) Jul 07 10:51:01 debian is a blunt solution Jul 07 10:51:08 Seriously, as I said, I don't like it because it doesn't fit for me, that's all Jul 07 10:51:10 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rec39b3690513 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-feed.bb: [task] Bump the PR of task-openmoko-feed to force a rebuild Jul 07 10:51:18 ieatlint: best possible binary packaging solution :) Jul 07 10:51:18 Then there's the discussion about free/non-free Jul 07 10:51:19 it's a "i need it to do this" with a "okay, but you have to take ALL OF THIS" thing Jul 07 10:51:32 But as I'm not a user I think it's not my choice, and I don't have anything to say Jul 07 10:51:33 gentoo is a "i need it to do this" and you get exactly what you need Jul 07 10:51:56 and if you are compiling for the same arch, with the same dependencies, you can create a binary package to use Jul 07 10:52:02 ieatlint: well , that might save you some disk space , but waste time and resources :) Jul 07 10:52:14 i don't think you get it :P Jul 07 10:52:19 Zoup_: "waste" is inappropriate I think Jul 07 10:52:23 it's not an issue of disk space Jul 07 10:52:24 ieatlint: when ever i install debian , i do remove 85% of services :) yes :) Jul 07 10:52:29 Zoup_: my system mainly builds package once a week, for 1 hour Jul 07 10:53:07 And depending on the need, though, something like gentoo specific to the arch could be needed Jul 07 10:53:13 Ainulindale: but there are binary packages for that , which reduces 1 hour wasted time to seconds :) Jul 07 10:53:23 (I can't remember which company bought a cluster on gentoo for hardware optimization when rendering 3D) Jul 07 10:53:40 Zoup_: and then you have tons of useless dependencies Jul 07 10:53:44 ieatlint: yes, you can compile once , create package , scp to entire world , but not using simple apt-get install apache2 ? :) Jul 07 10:53:49 I think it's a different philosophy that's all Jul 07 10:54:01 For my part I prefer to be able to master each and every aspect of my system Jul 07 10:54:07 I don't feel secure if that's not the case Jul 07 10:54:12 Ok, so with Belgium operator BASE the phone IS working, so time to Ditch Mobistare Jul 07 10:54:13 Zoup_, no, instead it takes maybe 3 steps, and i get only what i want Jul 07 10:54:17 Ainulindale: they are different , none sucks :) Jul 07 10:54:28 Zoup_: No, no, Debian sucks, because I don't like it :-) Jul 07 10:54:42 debian is a blunt instrument, gentoo is far more precise Jul 07 10:54:44 ieatlint: no update , no upstream automatic configuration ... ? :) Jul 07 10:55:01 Ainulindale: thats a good reason! ;) Jul 07 10:55:04 uh, not sure what you mean Jul 07 10:55:08 updates are easy as hell Jul 07 10:55:11 Zoup_: that's wrong what you said about updates and so on Jul 07 10:55:15 Ainulindale: Point is, it's not really constructive to complain about things in the way you're doing - often this ends up with "...and they still haven't fixed issue X which I never told them about.". Jul 07 10:55:21 and automatic config? not an issue Jul 07 10:55:21 ieatlint: you build your own package , scp them around the world , how do you update ? :) Jul 07 10:55:23 If you have an overlay for binaries, you can do pretty much the same thing in Gentoo Jul 07 10:55:30 you don't scp them Jul 07 10:55:47 why dont yall try arch :-d Jul 07 10:55:47 you have all the computers use a common package repository Jul 07 10:55:49 broonie: it was a simple example to point out, while trolling, what I don't like :-) Jul 07 10:56:08 broonie: But don't worry, I won't hate you because you use software which sucks :-p Jul 07 10:56:08 ieatlint: so , you suggest upstream binary packages dont you ? :) Jul 07 10:56:10 and you update portage's database from a local server, as needed Jul 07 10:56:22 upstream? not sure what you mean Jul 07 10:56:32 ieatlint: 'from gentoo' ? :) Jul 07 10:56:36 Nope Jul 07 10:56:38 no Jul 07 10:56:44 you make your own binary packages Jul 07 10:56:44 From the cluster maintainer Jul 07 10:56:48 nope Jul 07 10:57:09 then you need to maintain cluster, time wasted / bandwidth :) Jul 07 10:57:10 you build a bin package, and configure the clients to use a binary package when available Jul 07 10:57:12 If you have 100 server and install gentoo on them, you probably have a specific need you won't be able to fulfill with debian Jul 07 10:57:18 Zoup_: No, you didn't understand Jul 07 10:57:37 There's some kind of equivalent to sources.list in gentoo Jul 07 10:57:42 maintaining the cluster is minimal, and the bandwidth is essentially identical to debian Jul 07 10:57:53 And you can easily specify where to find binary packages for each and every package Jul 07 10:57:57 It's not usually done, that's all Jul 07 10:58:09 yeah, updates are done as needed, not as available Jul 07 10:58:19 ieatlint: minimal is much more than zero , i dont provide bandwidth for debian , there are mirrors for packages that i use :) Jul 07 10:58:31 Zoup_: Neither do we Jul 07 10:58:40 Ainulindale: and build them ? Jul 07 10:58:41 yeah, i don't get what you mean Jul 07 10:58:48 we download the source once Jul 07 10:58:50 Zoup_: what ? Jul 07 10:58:50 we compile them Jul 07 10:58:52 we host them locally Jul 07 10:58:59 the bandwidth is minimal Jul 07 10:58:59 And we win Jul 07 10:59:02 Because debian sucks :-p Jul 07 10:59:06 haha :) Jul 07 10:59:07 (I love to troll uselessly) Jul 07 10:59:10 :) Jul 07 10:59:14 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r42e23c9c95cf 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [assassin] Bump up the reversion of assassin to 174. Jul 07 10:59:14 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r4edef25e43fa 10/packages/openmoko-projects/assassin_svn.bb: [Assassin] Add curl to assassin's depends. Jul 07 10:59:15 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r5859db9c1aa7 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: rev illume to 1 second after blank for suspend Jul 07 10:59:15 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r9fe976c3ec22 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade splinter as of Chia-I Wu's request Jul 07 10:59:16 But hey guys I'm really really sick Jul 07 10:59:16 and we just : apt-get install software :) its single step :) Jul 07 10:59:18 openmoko: 03olv 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rb0d4ef652fc8 10/packages/ (10 files in 2 dirs): add/update more maps Jul 07 10:59:19 So please don't mind :-) Jul 07 10:59:21 openmoko: 03olv 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r852bbcc5bc67 10/conf/checksums.ini: add/update checksums of maps Jul 07 10:59:24 gentoo also allows much more obscure software Jul 07 10:59:24 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r406b8308091f 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-feed.bb: [task] Bump the PR of task-openmoko-feed to force a rebuild Jul 07 10:59:25 * Tanuva loves to read this discussion.. Jul 07 10:59:32 Zoup_: what ieatlint is equivalent to "emerge software" Jul 07 10:59:34 and supports installing packages from cvs Jul 07 10:59:34 One less word Jul 07 10:59:38 So easier and faster :-p Jul 07 10:59:44 /svn Jul 07 10:59:47 CVS ? oh my god! :)) Jul 07 10:59:53 And I can't speak english anymore it seems Jul 07 11:00:09 what's your native tongue? Jul 07 11:00:17 Zoup_: you can install them from git if you prefer =) Jul 07 11:00:20 i cant understand , why should i waste of customer time , processing power to build things ? Jul 07 11:00:20 French Jul 07 11:00:35 ah, a frenchie.... wtf is with your crazy as azerty keyboard? :P Jul 07 11:00:39 now that sucks ;) Jul 07 11:00:42 :-) Jul 07 11:00:59 *fg* Jul 07 11:01:03 Zoup_, how long do you think it takes to build things? Jul 07 11:01:06 Zoup_: Just a simple example, but what if some security flaw in apache was allowing remote access Jul 07 11:01:13 I've been to france once, typing on such thing is like hell... Jul 07 11:01:13 And what if this flaw was in some module Jul 07 11:01:18 much more than exctracting tar files Jul 07 11:01:25 You'd surely want to reduce the amount of useless modules Jul 07 11:01:34 It's purely schematic but it's a theoretical example Jul 07 11:01:53 Zoup_, name a package... if i have it on my system, i'll compile it and tell you how long it takes Jul 07 11:02:05 Ainulindale: apache2 :) Jul 07 11:02:13 Ainulindale: sorry :) Jul 07 11:02:19 ieatlint: i was telling you : apache2 :) Jul 07 11:02:24 i use lighttpd actually Jul 07 11:02:28 yeah, what if the flaw was a flaw in some dingabobby, because there will always be flaws in dingdangs and dohikeys regardless. "what if" ain't worth shit.. regardless of how flawed it is ;) Jul 07 11:02:38 i suppose i can install apache for a moment Jul 07 11:02:46 Mon Feb 11 19:31:34 2008 >>> www-servers/apache-2.2.8-r1 Jul 07 11:02:46 merge time: 5 minutes and 50 seconds. Jul 07 11:03:07 Merge time is download/decompress/compil/install Jul 07 11:03:09 5 minutes is compare able to 15 second installation under debian ? Jul 07 11:03:13 ok, am predownloading the packages Jul 07 11:03:24 seriously, it's not about what is the best, it's about what is the best for the task at hand. ^_^ Jul 07 11:03:26 Zoup_: it's not the matter of the time but of what you want :-) Jul 07 11:03:37 compiling... Jul 07 11:03:44 In a production environment, 5 minutes in order to install a software isn't that much Jul 07 11:03:44 has to install apache-tools first Jul 07 11:03:46 Ainulindale: Time is VERY important in enterprises :) Jul 07 11:03:50 apt-get install apache2 -y 0.30s user 0.00s system 99% cpu 0.304 total Jul 07 11:03:53 You will spend more time to configure hopefully Jul 07 11:04:03 you see ? :) Jul 07 11:04:11 Ainulindale: NO :) Jul 07 11:04:18 yeah, and how long does it take you to get a coffee or go to the toilet? Jul 07 11:04:22 Zoup_: my machine is a home machine, and I didn't enable ccache nor prefecth Jul 07 11:04:27 real 1m3.698s Jul 07 11:04:33 ... seriously, does anyone compile and install on a _production computer_ in enterprises? ?!? Jul 07 11:04:34 s/prefecth/prefetch Jul 07 11:04:40 oh my god... it took 33.698 seconds longer!!! Jul 07 11:04:50 you must be right, imagine the time i've wasted... Jul 07 11:04:51 ieatlint: YES :) Jul 07 11:04:54 IXian-Probe: Yep, I saw that. Working and all, and people being really happy. Jul 07 11:05:00 *shudder* Jul 07 11:05:06 well, isn't the prefferd practice to install the new version alonside the old version, and then tell the router to start redirecting new clients to the new version? Jul 07 11:05:15 ieatlint: 33 second for apache , XX for XXXX and etc and etc :) it takes 5 minutes to install PXE debian while in gentoo , god knows :) Jul 07 11:05:25 Then the last word anyone they would like to hear is "Ops" Jul 07 11:05:26 PLUS waste of processing power :) Jul 07 11:05:34 the only packages that take any amount of time are qt, glib and gcc Jul 07 11:05:34 IXian-Probe: but in this kind of environment where performance is critical, you generally have a qualification environment Jul 07 11:05:35 ...and then shutting down the old version after 10 mins? Jul 07 11:05:49 Wander_w: mhm, redundancy is king. ^_^ Jul 07 11:06:21 no, uptime is :D Jul 07 11:06:33 Ainulindale: exactly, if performance is critical.. Then precompile on a virtual machine or a identical separate machine. ^_^ Jul 07 11:06:45 IXian-Probe: That's what I was meaning Jul 07 11:06:46 imho Jul 07 11:06:57 plus, if a security breach is determined, i can push out patches to clients in minutes Jul 07 11:06:59 But as I'm sick I'm in a "say things ununderstable" mood Jul 07 11:07:05 Ainulindale: okey, then compiletime and installtime doesn't mean anything. ^_^ Jul 07 11:07:20 IXian-Probe: That's what we were trying to explain to Zoup_ Jul 07 11:07:22 Ainulindale: np ;) Jul 07 11:07:23 still.. i see a discussion where someone bashs debian for being to less configurable as totally bollocks because the discusser obviously has no clue about debian *sigh* Jul 07 11:07:54 roh: Yay ! Come with us and troll :-) Jul 07 11:08:05 IXian-Probe: your solution is impossible in enterprise :) Jul 07 11:08:16 Zoup_: I beg your pardon but no Jul 07 11:08:17 note that i'm not bashing debian exactly, i'm merely arguing that the exclusion of gentoo because it compiles packages is a flawed criticism Jul 07 11:08:20 tis opensource; what is this nonsense about some distro's being "less configurable"? Jul 07 11:08:20 IXian-Probe: at least , not logical , why you maintain maintained ? Jul 07 11:08:31 I currently work for sanofi-aventis and I'm doing exactly what IXian-Probe said Jul 07 11:08:35 Wander_w: i agree Jul 07 11:09:07 Zoup_, it matters, especially on some packages Jul 07 11:09:09 Ainulindale i think i just explained why such a discussion is worthless and cannot follow up to something where one discusses on a base of arguments, since its obvius one doesnt know how things are really working in the first place. Jul 07 11:09:11 mplayer, for instance Jul 07 11:09:22 roh: :-) Jul 07 11:09:29 ieatlint where does one exclude gentoo? Jul 07 11:09:38 roh: I don't remember how this conversation started by the way Jul 07 11:09:44 mplayer is best compiled by yourself, on any distro Jul 07 11:09:46 I'm pretty sure it was because I said "debian sucks" out of the blue Jul 07 11:09:46 Zoup_: Let me put it this way.. I'm not letting anything other than Debian or Freebsd near _my_ servers thank you. Regardless of compiletime and installtimes. Such things doesn't even enter the consideration in _enterprise_.. It does on the other hand figure big when geeks start comparing penis sizes... eg.. bogomips and compiletimes ^_^ Jul 07 11:09:46 ieatlint: mplayer installation takes as long as copying files for me :) Jul 07 11:09:58 (besides in lots of projects which close 50%of gentoo-users bugreports as 'wontfix, do not fuck up the cflags' Jul 07 11:10:17 damn right roh, it's a fucking feature, not a bug. Jul 07 11:10:29 roh: true :-) Jul 07 11:10:44 signing of trollfest ^_^ Jul 07 11:10:50 IXian-Probe: Its perfect if you can Maintain every pieces , but in "Enterprise" you dont have time to : Jul 07 11:10:51 and i'm an rhce, so i've had my fill of yum/apt-get Jul 07 11:10:55 ieatlint yes..its a mighty feature, still its a bug to touch it if one has 'no clue' Jul 07 11:11:23 Zoup_: depends on the enterprise Jul 07 11:11:34 Ainulindale: Zillion of angry customers Jul 07 11:11:34 Zoup_: some ministeries in France are starting to ask that Jul 07 11:11:39 hmm.. OT/HUMOR : Is Trolltech a company that create irc troll bots? ^_^ Jul 07 11:11:40 ;) Jul 07 11:11:49 ieatlint touching cflags means 'youre on your own, or need to know what you are doing', thus i can only agree with projects that close bugs which have their origin in 'wrong cflag-settings' .. still no harm intended. Jul 07 11:11:57 IXian-Probe: haha , im not from troll tech Jul 07 11:12:09 me neither, but it's a lame joke anyway ;) Jul 07 11:12:14 you shouldn't touch the cflags on a running system though Jul 07 11:12:23 to be fair, i find it quite sad that the 'users' in gentoo made work of maintainers so unbearable for some time, that many good people left to other distros/projects Jul 07 11:12:28 WHY! IS THIS OPENMOKO ? :)) Jul 07 11:12:45 and in the end , i says its unfair to say debian sucks :) Jul 07 11:13:00 roh: that's a problem within the maintainer community Jul 07 11:13:06 i stand by my description of it being a blunt tool Jul 07 11:13:19 There's people which tend to redirect bugs to upstream without a reason Jul 07 11:13:42 Zoup_: unfair ? No. Subjective ? Yes ! :-) Jul 07 11:13:43 ieatlint the point is: you shouldnt touch them at all if you do not know what youre doing. and if one just tries to set ones globally the 'one' is most certainly _wrong_.. see qemu, see mplayer.. touching cflags there _breaks_ stuff. and _is_ wrong Jul 07 11:14:04 Ainulindale: hahhaha :) Jul 07 11:14:12 Zoup_: that's the main point I think Jul 07 11:14:21 Each and every one of us looks for something different that's all Jul 07 11:14:22 Ainulindale could be.. i am a ubuntu/debian poweruser, but i still like openwrt and openembedded for the embedded world. Jul 07 11:14:31 You prefer features which suck, and I'm not that's all :-P Jul 07 11:14:32 ieatlint , Ainulindale : if in your envinronment debian sucks , it not necessary sucks everywhere :) Jul 07 11:14:45 i didn't say it sucked :P Jul 07 11:14:50 No I did :-) Jul 07 11:14:57 and i still say that you shouldn't be changing your cflags Jul 07 11:14:59 Ainulindale and i wouldnt use gentoo not because of the idea, but because they havent enough good people for the quality i need in total Jul 07 11:15:01 But I like to be provocative ;-) Jul 07 11:15:11 Ainulindale, you are Jul 07 11:15:13 roh: I see your point Jul 07 11:15:24 HauDyrArb: that's because I'm sick and bored ! Jul 07 11:15:30 I can't work, I'm at home sweating like a pig in a sauna Jul 07 11:15:35 With the nose bigger than a potatoe Jul 07 11:15:43 And it's summer !! ! Jul 07 11:15:55 Ainulindale: well.. at least you have your moko to play with? Jul 07 11:15:55 gentoo has serious issues, and i won't claim otherwise, but i like it Jul 07 11:15:55 its also funny to read when all jumops to Debians side :-) Jul 07 11:15:57 hey can you install Gentoo on Freerunner ? Jul 07 11:16:02 Ainulindale e.g. on the desktop i have ubuntu everyhwere because the gnome stuff is properly configured to 'start working' and not waste days in setting up stuff Jul 07 11:16:03 Wander_w: Noooo ! :'-( Jul 07 11:16:16 Zoup_, in theory, yes... they have support for arm Jul 07 11:16:18 after 10 years on linux one sees some things differently ;) Jul 07 11:16:27 roh: I installed ubuntu on several computers for my friends, because I see plainly it's something easy to use Jul 07 11:16:41 .oO(on the other side, the license-faschism in debian really sucks sometimes) Jul 07 11:17:25 that's why there is Ubuntu Jul 07 11:17:35 Ubuntu isn't the same thing I think Jul 07 11:17:48 Mostly because there's compiz-fusion Jul 07 11:17:50 Which is baaad Jul 07 11:17:53 * Ainulindale starts a new troll Jul 07 11:18:07 Ainulindale: why is compiz bad? Jul 07 11:18:11 huhu Jul 07 11:18:17 I'm quite fond of it Jul 07 11:18:19 i happen to support fascism, actually Jul 07 11:18:26 I still can't understand its use, besides the graphical acceleration trough hardware Jul 07 11:18:34 +h Jul 07 11:18:57 Wander_w: until recently I used fluxbox, I think it's a good testimony of my graphical taste Jul 07 11:19:07 it has no use. its for people who like eye-candy. Jul 07 11:19:11 it's use is to provide some sort of distraction of the thing ppl call "work" Jul 07 11:19:19 and to impress chicks ofcourse Jul 07 11:19:20 its for them to shut up and let other people work on stuff that makes sense Jul 07 11:19:27 roh: hahaha :-) Jul 07 11:19:29 *snicker* Jul 07 11:19:44 yeah, i've had too many people go "look what i can do" Jul 07 11:19:46 I'm picturing Wander_w trying to impress chicks Jul 07 11:19:58 as useful as having your desktops appear on a 3d box is... Jul 07 11:20:04 "look at my cube! it rotates!" Jul 07 11:20:05 i somehow am comfortable with the 2d Jul 07 11:20:10 "Wait, I'll show you something. Wait what was the keyboard shortcut again ? ... mmmm grep... hmmm cat.... Seg fault ?!" Jul 07 11:20:53 I think the only feature I like on compiz is the shortcuts on reduced windows, showing the activity Jul 07 11:21:36 but seriously... compiz has convinced more of my friends to try linux than any other piece of software Jul 07 11:21:47 Wander_w: It's sad :-) Jul 07 11:22:01 ahh *nix... where else can we elitist fucks argue over semantics that no one else understands or cares about Jul 07 11:22:01 Ainulindale: It's reality; get used to it Jul 07 11:22:10 openbsd rules! Jul 07 11:22:13 :P Jul 07 11:22:16 People who come to the linux world in order to have better eye candy won't say long Jul 07 11:22:28 ieatlint: Theo? Is that you? Jul 07 11:22:29 Because even on Ubuntu, you will have to do something with CLI tools Jul 07 11:22:53 Ainulindale: you're just wrong about that Jul 07 11:22:58 (it was "stay long" of course) Jul 07 11:23:09 (My keyboard is trying to flee my flu) Jul 07 11:23:26 maybe if you got rid of the azerty layout it'd help Jul 07 11:23:26 Wander_w: I don't think I'm wrong, it's a personal experience Jul 07 11:23:29 You cant escape the CLI Jul 07 11:23:32 ieatlint: ttsss :-) Jul 07 11:23:36 honestly, why is your m next to the L? Jul 07 11:23:42 Ainulindale: My parents don't even know what a CLI is, but use Linux Jul 07 11:24:01 for quite a long time allready Jul 07 11:24:03 ieatlint: that way we can write more easily "lamer" :-p Jul 07 11:24:18 (And I don't know why) Jul 07 11:24:26 (I'm qwerty/azerty fluent) Jul 07 11:24:34 i use qwertz myself Jul 07 11:24:40 Wander_w: but you help them Jul 07 11:24:45 although living in the states, i am qwerty fluent as well Jul 07 11:24:47 When they have a problem Jul 07 11:24:53 Or they have fixed needs Jul 07 11:25:02 Wander_w: I install software for them *just like i did with windows* Jul 07 11:25:03 Because when someone tries to do something specific Jul 07 11:25:11 Or tries to use esoteric devices Jul 07 11:25:12 brb, more beer Jul 07 11:25:24 You won't be able to help him as exactly as you would do with CLI Jul 07 11:25:59 Ainulindale: what do you mean? I just install updates occasionally and kick the printer Jul 07 11:26:01 mmm, beer Jul 07 11:26:04 and that is it Jul 07 11:26:19 Wander_w: For example, they want their computer in wifi, or they have bought a scanner, etc... Jul 07 11:26:32 They don't buy that Jul 07 11:26:37 don't do wifi Jul 07 11:26:40 Yep so that's your example :-) Jul 07 11:26:43 My friends do that Jul 07 11:26:45 they do as I tell them to do Jul 07 11:26:49 And it's hard for them Jul 07 11:26:58 A friend of mine tried to install ampache Jul 07 11:27:03 The php library manager Jul 07 11:27:15 He didn't understand he needed apache Jul 07 11:27:19 For him it was the same Jul 07 11:27:31 I had to help him, and it was pure commandline :-) Jul 07 11:27:45 Ainulindale, let me say that your english is extremely good... your word choice and sentence structure are that of a native speaker Jul 07 11:28:00 could you friend do these same installations on windows by him/herself? Jul 07 11:28:17 Is there any howto-like docs for taking an existing application and packaging it for opkg and make it show up nicely in the menu? Jul 07 11:28:21 Thanks, I'll try to be ill more often :) Jul 07 11:28:29 haha Jul 07 11:28:35 ieatlint: I switched keyboards just for your pleasure Jul 07 11:28:38 azerty macintosh Jul 07 11:28:52 too bad i don't like france :P Jul 07 11:28:53 azerty... that french? Jul 07 11:28:54 (a friend of mine gave me a powerbook in order to install gentoo) Jul 07 11:29:03 ah.. "bonjour, ca va?" Jul 07 11:29:30 Wander_w: a good way to say hi is "debian suce des ours guatmaltques" Jul 07 11:29:44 (Debian sucks bears from guatemala) Jul 07 11:29:46 * Wander_w had a year of french classes in highschool Jul 07 11:30:14 Wander_w: just to answer your question, in this case in windows I think it still could be hard Jul 07 11:30:18 But things like using a scanner Jul 07 11:30:24 I think it's not mature enough right now Jul 07 11:30:32 And given its maturity it's hard for users Jul 07 11:30:36 Ainulindale: yeah; why don't you try to say Hi in dutch: "Ik gebruik niets liever dan debian" Jul 07 11:31:06 I won't try to speak dutch because duch sucks at least like debian :p Jul 07 11:31:09 ARGH Jul 07 11:31:12 This keyboard drives me mad Jul 07 11:31:27 lol Jul 07 11:31:28 Ainulindale: just a particular group of users: those that can use windows well Jul 07 11:31:30 i like dutch :) Jul 07 11:31:36 I prefer dutch people Jul 07 11:31:45 I went on a wonderful trip near Delft Jul 07 11:31:50 * Wander_w steps away from Ainulindale Jul 07 11:31:56 i speak english and a bit of german, so i can read a bit of dutch Jul 07 11:31:58 just what are you planning to do to me? Jul 07 11:32:05 :-) Jul 07 11:32:17 Seriously the only problem with dutch people is that they're way too tall Jul 07 11:32:22 lol Jul 07 11:32:27 dutch women are hot though Jul 07 11:32:44 and the dutch travel a lot... everywhere i've gone, there are always dutch people Jul 07 11:32:48 I don't know I'm not allowed to look at women my girlfriend would kill me Jul 07 11:32:59 lol Jul 07 11:33:03 i speak danish so i can also read Dutch :-> Jul 07 11:33:21 my girlfriend will say "wow, look at her boobs" Jul 07 11:33:31 yeah.. I can say a few words Thai, so I can read english Jul 07 11:33:54 ieatlint: and mine would say "wait you're looking at her boobs ? *plnk*" Jul 07 11:34:05 you can read english because your dutch... :P Jul 07 11:34:14 90% of the dutch seem fluent in english Jul 07 11:34:27 ieatlint: I wonder why that is :P Jul 07 11:34:32 Ainulindale, clearly you need a bisexual girlfriend :P Jul 07 11:34:41 only when you read it through a bottle of Vodka Jul 07 11:34:44 movies Jul 07 11:34:49 (Because they're pretty much the only one speaking their tongue :-/) Jul 07 11:34:58 haha, yeah... dutch? you mean ketel one, heineken and grolsch? Jul 07 11:34:59 (It might be that english is taught from 10 years old until 16-22) Jul 07 11:35:18 Wander_w: same thing here now, but dutch people understood sonner it was necessary I think Jul 07 11:35:33 In France we still have those people thinking about the french "exception" Jul 07 11:35:51 Ainulindale: yeah, and the english movies don't get dubbed over in the native tongue Jul 07 11:36:02 yep Jul 07 11:36:03 Yep that's awful Jul 07 11:36:24 Dutch seems to be a weird combination of english deutch and scandinavian languages minus pretty much all the consonants Jul 07 11:36:29 my german friends in d?sseldorf drive to nl to see movies because of that Jul 07 11:36:30 (The A-team in german is rather amusing) Jul 07 11:36:34 In our french tv networks, there's just one channel which broadcast movies in the original tongue Jul 07 11:36:46 And one out of six broadcasts Jul 07 11:36:56 (of the same movie) Jul 07 11:37:13 south park in german isn't Jul 07 11:37:33 i was watching it to see what they said for "oh no! you killed kenny!" "you bastards!" Jul 07 11:37:34 yeah... but the subtitles are allways just over the tits of the girls :P Jul 07 11:37:54 instead it was like "ach schei?e! sie haben kenny ermordert Jul 07 11:38:12 and that was i Jul 07 11:38:13 t Jul 07 11:38:15 ieatlint: god bless you Jul 07 11:38:23 ieatlint: .. yeah... amusing; that's what I said Jul 07 11:39:04 and germans somehow just don't seem to find nazi jokes funny Jul 07 11:39:12 Wander_w: in France for people my age (25) we started studying english at 12 Jul 07 11:39:22 Now children start at 8 or 10 Jul 07 11:39:31 my friends were aghast when they visited california and heard us using nazi casually to describe people Jul 07 11:40:11 schools here start teaching foreign language in year 7, but it's optional Jul 07 11:40:12 Ainulindale: good for them, I'll ask a 8 yo. if I want a "Bloc du glace" (and not a glass of beer) Jul 07 11:40:35 is taught through year 12, but many colleges require 2 years of foreign language Jul 07 11:40:44 spanish is most popular here, being california Jul 07 11:40:47 Wander_w: a "bloc de glace" ? Jul 07 11:40:50 followed by mandarin Jul 07 11:41:02 (we went on a holiday to france once, and no matter what we asked; we allway got a glass of beer) Jul 07 11:41:13 Ainulindale: a block of ice Jul 07 11:41:26 Wander_w: yep thanks, I can pretty much speak french :-P Jul 07 11:41:27 lol, and you're complaining? Jul 07 11:41:35 But french beers are horrid Jul 07 11:41:50 kronnenbourg isn't bad... although it's essentially german Jul 07 11:41:56 ieatlint: well.. yeah, we needed the ice to cool our stash of beer Jul 07 11:42:00 I'm forced to order online in order to have real beers Jul 07 11:42:17 (belgian beers) Jul 07 11:42:22 i can't get palm or altbier here... and that makes me sad Jul 07 11:42:30 (not german one which suck as much as debian) Jul 07 11:42:41 * Ainulindale whistles Jul 07 11:42:50 Ainulindale: and what about the dutch beers? :P Jul 07 11:42:50 well, i can pay $8 for a 8+month old altbier, but meh Jul 07 11:43:02 Wander_w: I don't think I ever drank one Jul 07 11:43:05 dutch beers? :P Jul 07 11:43:14 heineken is the universal "okay, i can drink that" Jul 07 11:43:23 ieatlint: no. Jul 07 11:43:25 grolsch is "yeah, it's a good pilsener" Jul 07 11:43:37 and that about covers dutch beer Jul 07 11:43:43 Ainulindale: Heineken? Jul 07 11:43:56 Each time I drink Heineken, a new tentacle grows on my forehead Jul 07 11:44:12 It's awful, it's not even beer ! Jul 07 11:44:19 It's a lager for god sakes :-) Jul 07 11:44:25 -s Jul 07 11:44:26 i drink local myself Jul 07 11:44:37 ieatlint: jupiler? Brand? Oranjeboom? Amstel? Jul 07 11:44:37 the west coast of the US has some fantastic beers Jul 07 11:44:47 amstel is meh Jul 07 11:44:54 oranjeboom is on par with heineken Jul 07 11:44:57 Wander_w: jupiler is drinkable, but just barely Jul 07 11:44:59 brand and jupiler i've not had Jul 07 11:45:17 i got addicted to palm last time i was in holland Jul 07 11:45:19 Wander_w: if you want true beer, Tongerlo, Rochefort, Kaastelbier, Tripel Karmeliet and so on Jul 07 11:45:28 although i'm not a huge belgian beer fan Jul 07 11:45:36 Wander_w: there's a french website (which also exists in dutch) which is selling them Jul 07 11:45:39 *Kasteelbier Jul 07 11:45:56 come try some western US beer :P Jul 07 11:45:58 Last time I ordered 20 liters Jul 07 11:46:00 anchor steam Jul 07 11:46:16 the style is "california common" ... unique to us Jul 07 11:46:19 good shit Jul 07 11:46:31 british ales are also fantastic Jul 07 11:47:14 and go to the czech republic for a pilsener... Jul 07 11:47:19 austrian beer sucks ass Jul 07 11:47:27 don't let them convince you g?sser is good Jul 07 11:47:38 ieatlint: that isn't true Jul 07 11:47:57 which part? :P Jul 07 11:48:02 Here's a more constructive troll than the distro one :-) Jul 07 11:48:03 Goesser sucks but Stiegl is really good Jul 07 11:48:07 Hello, I am wonder if its acceptable to ask a GSM/3G related question here=? Jul 07 11:48:15 stiegl? that's austrian? Jul 07 11:48:15 Sure. Jul 07 11:48:25 yes Jul 07 11:48:39 Openmoko doesn't have 3g, if that's what you are asking Jul 07 11:48:47 ok, i like stiegl Jul 07 11:48:51 reason i don't use it Jul 07 11:48:53 muaha. Jul 07 11:49:01 since 1492 good beer Jul 07 11:49:06 bobkare have you seen http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain ? Jul 07 11:49:12 I have a data card, Named "Option qualcomm 3g CDMA" Wonder what is the name of the manufactor? Jul 07 11:49:19 Option or qualcomm ? Jul 07 11:49:24 considering most of the networks here are private, just wouldn't be possible Jul 07 11:49:46 qualcomm is cdma, and entirely incompatible with gsm Jul 07 11:49:55 CDMA? Jul 07 11:50:05 Code division multiple access Jul 07 11:50:07 ok thanks, so Option the manufactor? Jul 07 11:50:08 cdma is a protocol Jul 07 11:50:12 gsm is a protocol Jul 07 11:50:16 er, channel access Jul 07 11:50:18 they are not at all compatible Jul 07 11:50:41 nadio: is there a FCC number on it? You can use that number to find the manufacturer Jul 07 11:50:44 roh: thanks for the tip, I'll start there Jul 07 11:50:51 ieatlint do not confuse stuff there.. 2g is GMSK modulation, 3g uses WCDMA. Jul 07 11:51:03 nadio ack. option is the manuf. Jul 07 11:51:05 true, but cdma is not wcdma Jul 07 11:51:09 qualcom builds chips Jul 07 11:51:10 3g has too many names :( Jul 07 11:51:18 qualcom also owns the patents on cdma Jul 07 11:51:23 and is a nazi with them Jul 07 11:51:28 By the way guys, up to date monotone checkout : a setup.py file is missing for zhone Jul 07 11:51:33 (for fso-image) Jul 07 11:51:36 roh: I'm thinking of helping package rana (openstreetmap viewing/routing with it's own renderer) Jul 07 11:52:13 Wander_w: Yes Jul 07 11:52:24 i'm using beer to alieviate pain from a wisdom tooth... this is probably not a smart decision Jul 07 11:52:24 FCC ID Jul 07 11:52:48 ieatlint: no it's not. Beer is the solution to everything. Jul 07 11:53:00 agreed :) Jul 07 11:53:35 it is also my solution to the fact that i have to sit across a table for 6 hours on tuesday as the person i hate most in the world is questioned by my lawyer... Jul 07 11:53:42 I wonder when bearstech will receive their freerunner, sigh'. Jul 07 11:53:46 alcohol makes me not stress about it :) Jul 07 11:53:48 ieatlint: better use something stronger; whiskey or such Jul 07 11:54:04 ieatlint: huh ? Jul 07 11:54:09 yeah, i've got some glenlivet 18 year here... i should switch Jul 07 11:54:14 bobkare the toolchain is nice for testing and building simple, single things.. on the long run a bitbake recipe (.bb file) and inclusion into OE would be nice Jul 07 11:54:28 i'm suing someone and they give their deposition on tuesday Jul 07 11:54:35 (it's the american way..." Jul 07 11:54:36 ) Jul 07 11:54:38 Oh Jul 07 11:54:56 I don't know if it's quick in the USA but in France... Jul 07 11:55:08 What does the SNR (Serial) Number stand for? Jul 07 11:55:09 It has been a year since I sued my previous landlord Jul 07 11:55:10 no, it's slow... 12-18 months Jul 07 11:55:12 Still waiting for the results Jul 07 11:55:24 Which should come in october or so Jul 07 11:55:26 Also a type of FCC ID ? Jul 07 11:55:31 nadio: no Jul 07 11:56:06 roh: this should be pretty simple, it's a python app that I pretty much just have to run after installing some deps Jul 07 11:56:08 my father died last year with a brain tumour... my evil sister got him to change his will 3 weeks before he died when he couldn't state his name Jul 07 11:56:13 so i'm suing my sister Jul 07 11:56:37 Please explain the use of SNR ? Jul 07 11:57:00 ieatlint: nice :-/ Jul 07 11:57:40 yeah, and that's no lie... she's made up some pretty horrible things about me to try and explain it... and i get to sit across from her tuesday :) Jul 07 11:57:55 nadio: the serial number is for the manufacturer to track where, when and how a device was made Jul 07 11:58:36 yay for booze Jul 07 11:58:58 hurray Jul 07 11:59:47 so if you have a defect device, a manufacturer can go "Oh SNR #XYZ was made by machine X which had fault Y so now the solution is to do Z" Jul 07 12:02:33 I am having a little problem, "OPTION GlobeTrotter PC cards only. This Firmware and Software is not intended for customized PC cards obtained through a Network Operator (eg. Vodafone, T-Mobile," Jul 07 12:03:01 Problem is I have, one of these, cards, and I need to unlock it, by reflashing the rom, (because its operator locked) Jul 07 12:03:38 the manufactorer says just that my card doesn't exist in there database, and noway to continue :( Jul 07 12:03:40 So, has anybody had the same problem I had with setup.py while building zhone ? Jul 07 12:18:16 openmoko: 03zecke * r5befce0fdbad 10/devices/ficgta01/src/plugins/phonevendors/ficgta01/vendor_ficgta01.cpp: [gsm] Do not announce calls as incoming that were outgoing Jul 07 12:18:17 openmoko: 03zecke * r4536af05deff 10/src/ (10 files in 6 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of git+ssh://git@git.openmoko.org/var/cache/git/qtopia Jul 07 12:18:52 This Neo FreeRunner is still a beta version (not ready for mass market) ? Jul 07 12:19:39 The software is the hardware should be OK Jul 07 12:21:37 Is a version after FreeRunner planned also? Jul 07 12:24:02 gta03 is in planning stages, belldandy knows how long it'll take though Jul 07 12:24:08 certainly the 02 took its while :] Jul 07 12:27:51 I am trying openmoko on A780 and I must say that the interface is really nice and clean ! Jul 07 12:28:23 However the dialing doesn't work out yet on this phone Jul 07 12:29:03 yangvnc: \o/ cool Jul 07 12:34:53 what is a A780> Jul 07 12:34:56 ? Jul 07 12:35:18 Motorolla phone according to google Jul 07 12:35:36 ah.. didn't know openmoko works on those as well Jul 07 12:38:52 Wander_w: yep partially Jul 07 12:47:54 openmoko: 03werner * r4511 10/developers/werner/mic/ (. README SIMULATE a6.sch a7.sch dat2qdf out2dat wolfson.sch): Simulation of the GTA02 microphone input circuit. Jul 07 12:49:50 i'm trying to follow http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Openmoko_working_on_host_with_Xephyr but i get some linker error: Jul 07 12:50:00 /home/evolux/stuff/openmoko/build/tmp/staging/i486-angstrom-linux/usr/lib/libecore_con.so: undefined reference to `curl_easy_setopt@CURL_OPENSSL_3' Jul 07 12:51:09 i'm using ubuntu and i know that there is "libcurl-gnutls" and "libcurl-openssl". But i'm not really sure how to tell mokomakefile which one to use Jul 07 12:53:01 apt-get remove libcurl-gnutls; apt-get install libcurl-openssl ? Jul 07 12:55:19 it seems that there is only gnutls for libcurl3 Jul 07 12:55:26 but i have installed openssl for curl4 Jul 07 12:56:27 i don't really know bitbake. Is it enough to just restart make openmoko-devel-image after having changed the installed libraries? Jul 07 12:59:03 can't hurt to try Jul 07 12:59:37 but of course, it does not work ;-) Jul 07 13:02:08 .... then do a make clean? Jul 07 13:02:40 make distclean, make proper, make mrproper or make justcleanitallready Jul 07 13:03:50 whisky good Jul 07 13:03:55 told you so Jul 07 13:04:02 indeed Jul 07 13:04:04 :) Jul 07 13:04:08 :) Jul 07 13:04:45 .... it's not a good idea to sit drunk in front of a lawyer though Jul 07 13:05:02 heh, i'll be sober for that Jul 07 13:05:40 i sit sober in front of a lawyer, then take a train back into san francisco, drive to pick up my girlfriend from a different train, and then get drunk as hell Jul 07 13:05:42 maybe valium is a good idea :P Jul 07 13:05:44 that'S my plan :) Jul 07 13:05:57 i have valium, but... not a good idea Jul 07 13:06:23 i have another sister who got an addiction to valium and vicodin... don't fuck with it Jul 07 13:06:33 doesn't go down well with the booze you are planning to drink Jul 07 13:06:41 plus valium+alcohol == liver failure Jul 07 13:06:48 haha... nice sisters you have :P Jul 07 13:07:01 yeah, well, the drug addict one isn't evil Jul 07 13:07:18 remember Prince Valium from Spaceballs? Jul 07 13:07:21 no Jul 07 13:07:24 hehe Jul 07 13:08:02 as i said, i have valium, but i only take it if i really need it or am going for certain medical operations for which i have phobias (and for which it is prescribed) Jul 07 13:08:17 i'm irish, we stick to our booze Jul 07 13:08:41 here's a video with my gesture recognition library that is also used on the Neo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX50lXuJ28Q Jul 07 13:08:41 good for you... but I thought you were USAian Jul 07 13:09:00 yeah, i'm an american Jul 07 13:09:07 a calfironian, i like to specify Jul 07 13:09:08 hope you enjoy watching the gestures and controlling Amarok with the Wii http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX50lXuJ28Q Jul 07 13:09:16 Irish/Ameriacan :-) Jul 07 13:09:34 in the US, we're all immigrants, so we identify ourselves as irish, british, french, german, chinese, et Jul 07 13:09:36 c Jul 07 13:09:46 we don't specify "irish-american", etc Jul 07 13:09:50 .... that's pretty stupid Jul 07 13:09:51 how do I activate vibration? echo 1 /sys/class/leds/xxx ? Jul 07 13:10:12 we're known for stupidity, too Jul 07 13:10:16 Wander_w: omg Jul 07 13:10:24 because... you were born in the USA right? Jul 07 13:10:24 but irish here refers to ethnicity Jul 07 13:10:31 Wander_w: i would prefer not waiting another 8 hours for the compilation Jul 07 13:10:43 just remember, california doesn't mean USA :P Jul 07 13:10:49 i was born in california Jul 07 13:10:56 evolux: it should skip the tasks that were already completed, relax Jul 07 13:11:06 ieatlint, the "good" thing is there is stupidity enough to the whole world :-) Jul 07 13:11:08 Wander_w: also after a make clean? Jul 07 13:11:10 we legalised gay marriage, condemn the iraq war, etc Jul 07 13:11:20 evolux: oh yeah... forgot about that Jul 07 13:11:25 *g* Jul 07 13:11:39 ieatlint: you copied the gay marriage from us Jul 07 13:11:47 bah Jul 07 13:11:52 we're san francisco Jul 07 13:11:58 we copied gayness from no one! Jul 07 13:12:15 ieatlint: ....riiiiight Jul 07 13:12:27 san francisco = GAY Jul 07 13:12:35 see: "What did the romans ever do for us" Jul 07 13:12:45 i voted for obama, i was at the gay pride parade, and i proudly wear a gay pride obama sticker on my jacket Jul 07 13:12:51 and i am not gay Jul 07 13:13:07 at least you are happy Jul 07 13:13:13 indeed :) Jul 07 13:13:47 i condemn bigotry, as almost all san franciscans do Jul 07 13:14:16 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry Jul 07 13:14:18 and i'm proud that i my representative is the speaker of the house of representatives Jul 07 13:14:43 that i live in the first US state that allows all gay marriages Jul 07 13:15:23 and that our sewage treatment plant will soon be renamed in honour of our president Jul 07 13:16:51 i'm a socialist, and an educated one at that Jul 07 13:17:00 The Geroge W. Bush SewagePlant Jul 07 13:17:17 and my views and opinions are common, so i love my city and my state... the bear flag republic Jul 07 13:17:28 essentially :) Jul 07 13:17:46 we'll send our shit to george w bush Jul 07 13:19:03 "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" -- Thomas Jefferson, a man who by all American accounts is a "founding father" -- a patriot, a founder Jul 07 13:19:08 other presidents get Ships or Space centers named after them but not Bush :-) Jul 07 13:20:01 and a man for whom i am named after Jul 07 13:21:03 It's funny how different people from America think really different about Bush Jul 07 13:21:17 Whereas in other countries there's some kind of unanimity on the subject Jul 07 13:21:34 unanimity... have you seen bush's approval ratings? Jul 07 13:21:52 america is united in its disapproval of bush Jul 07 13:22:00 Now it is yes Jul 07 13:22:12 true Jul 07 13:22:16 it previously was not Jul 07 13:22:27 (Which is what I was wondering about) Jul 07 13:22:39 i was anti-bush from the start Jul 07 13:22:53 Same thing for Patriot Act, I'm truly amazed at the fact it was adopted Jul 07 13:22:58 but bear in mind, the US approval of the iraq war was because we were lied to Jul 07 13:23:01 by bush Jul 07 13:23:15 we were lied to Jul 07 13:23:30 we trusted the office of the president Jul 07 13:23:32 Lied to, I don't know Jul 07 13:23:36 Bullied, I think so Jul 07 13:23:47 our representatives were bullied, perhaps Jul 07 13:23:53 but we believed them Jul 07 13:23:57 well, many of us did Jul 07 13:24:05 Right now in France we have some motion ingoing about downloads and stuff Jul 07 13:24:05 i didn't, and my representatives didn't Jul 07 13:24:17 well, france isn't clean either Jul 07 13:24:29 i am not one of the idiotic anti-french people Jul 07 13:24:30 If you're caught downloading illegaly, some private representatives of copyright owners could ask providers to cut off your access to the internet Jul 07 13:24:38 And it's clearly way too stupid Jul 07 13:24:52 if you're caught downloading illegally, it's your issue Jul 07 13:24:59 take better precautions Jul 07 13:25:06 usenet with ssl :P Jul 07 13:25:09 That's not my case, but as I was saying Jul 07 13:25:20 If your access is cut Jul 07 13:25:31 anyway, me point is that you can criticise the US all you want Jul 07 13:25:31 And if you can't access to the Internet in your home Jul 07 13:25:38 but realise that the US is not a single body Jul 07 13:25:41 A part of your access to the information is cut Jul 07 13:25:51 And as in France there's a polemic about the mediatic power of the president Jul 07 13:25:55 california never has supported bush Jul 07 13:26:03 It's truly harmful for freedom, and freedom of access to the information Jul 07 13:26:05 ieatlint: no - they shave there. Jul 07 13:26:14 But average people/voter doesn't have a clue about that Jul 07 13:26:17 So it goes on Jul 07 13:26:20 i haven't shaved in like 10 days :P Jul 07 13:26:31 ieatlint: Oh I realize that Jul 07 13:26:37 As I said => Jul 07 13:26:50 "It's funny how different people from America think really different about Bush" Jul 07 13:27:19 few people not involved in politics know more about the world than i do :) Jul 07 13:27:35 i follow the AP, the bbc and der Spiegel religiously Jul 07 13:27:41 and apply common sense to their reports Jul 07 13:27:45 i find it even more funny how many people from america think that somebody somewhere else should care for their unimportant dickfights Jul 07 13:27:59 you should care Jul 07 13:28:06 mccain vs obama Jul 07 13:28:16 if you think it doesn't matter to you, you're blind Jul 07 13:28:30 roh: it's unumportant only if america is isolationist, and never buys anything from anywhere else. Jul 07 13:28:37 It does matter but it's not as important as it seems, especially for european people Jul 07 13:28:45 The more the governments fight p2p the more people start using GNUnet/FreeNet etc. Jul 07 13:28:56 For Europe what is more a bother is the conglomerate Sarkozy/Berlusconi, for example Jul 07 13:29:08 heh Jul 07 13:29:09 freenet/... have inherent bandwidth/security trades though. Jul 07 13:29:18 yeah, sarkozy is... bizarre Jul 07 13:29:24 i don't give a s*it about who is the next figure to be controlled by the industry there. they all do not oppose war and military industry(on the contrary,, these companies found the elections) so the outcome is the same. Jul 07 13:29:29 and berlunsconi... i don't get it Jul 07 13:29:31 HauDyrArb: Last motion about that in France could harm even that Jul 07 13:29:49 roh, i realise how you feel Jul 07 13:29:51 hour own then WIFI net Jul 07 13:29:54 ok, from what I've gathered, the 850 appears to work in Mainland Europe.. right? Jul 07 13:29:57 but obama truly is like kennedy Jul 07 13:29:59 perhaps not just as much? Jul 07 13:30:04 then our own WIFI net Jul 07 13:30:10 he will end the iraq war as soon as he can Jul 07 13:30:17 ieatlint just for your information.. i'm german and feel 'european' Jul 07 13:30:18 ieatlint: you mean he's bound to get shot ? Jul 07 13:30:20 StealthCP: it varies Jul 07 13:30:31 hah Jul 07 13:30:32 StealthCP 850 is for the us isolationists *cough* Jul 07 13:30:35 StealthCP: in some places, with some carriers it will work as well as a quadband phone. Jul 07 13:30:38 I see. It looks like there'll be some areas which work and some which don't Jul 07 13:30:40 i have a lot of respect for germans Jul 07 13:30:47 exposed to them at a young age Jul 07 13:30:47 StealthCP: In others, it won't work at all. Jul 07 13:30:53 my german friends support obama Jul 07 13:30:56 right Jul 07 13:30:56 "exposed" :-) Jul 07 13:30:56 StealthCP gsm900 and 1800 are the 'international' bands Jul 07 13:31:00 he is socialist Jul 07 13:31:10 ieatlint: not in the common sense Jul 07 13:31:17 StealthCP: for example, in the U, go with t-mobile, and you get as good performance as a quadband - t-mobile does not use 900MHz. Jul 07 13:31:20 StealthCP: UK Jul 07 13:31:22 ieatlint: ++ Jul 07 13:31:24 More a liberal democrat than a socialist I think Jul 07 13:31:33 As I wish to use it in the US as well I think the 850 seems to be a good choice Jul 07 13:31:34 StealthCP: Also - t-mobile have nice pay-as-you-go tarrifs. Jul 07 13:31:37 T-Mobile? hmm ok Jul 07 13:31:37 But then I ought to read more about his views Jul 07 13:31:38 heh, well, i'm about as socialst as you can get Jul 07 13:31:45 i admit he's moderate Jul 07 13:31:58 I'm currently on O2, however I was considering Orange or the 3 network again Jul 07 13:32:13 StealthCP: for example, 1 pound a day data cost cap, (.7p/k before that), and the ability to buy 5 days data for 2.50 Jul 07 13:32:15 I actually live in Northern Ireland, so coverage of some networks isn't just as good on this side Jul 07 13:32:23 pvborza, looks pretty good, dos gestures have to be as sharp as on the video? Jul 07 13:32:27 obama is against starting wars Jul 07 13:32:40 even if he only prevents a war with iran, i'll call him a success Jul 07 13:32:51 ieatlint, what about finishing :-) Jul 07 13:32:53 ieatlint i think the us first needs to go bankrupt before anything will change in politics there. regarless if its about weapons or foreign policies. a 2-party system 'owned' by the industry is nothing which changes without strong force or reason. but surely not from within Jul 07 13:33:21 Any_Key: no, it all depends on the classifier Jul 07 13:33:28 i agree that the 2 party system is a major flaw Jul 07 13:33:29 roh: I quite agree with that, even if it's kind of extremist Jul 07 13:33:37 ieatlint: a flaw, I don't think so Jul 07 13:33:37 ieatlint: And what if Iran suceeds in developing the ninja toads that they have been over the past decades? Will you be so grateful after you have been beheaded by a silent green assasin? Jul 07 13:33:40 but the US going bankrupt would be bad for all Jul 07 13:33:42 Any_Key: on the Neo, the gestures won't need to be that quick and fast Jul 07 13:33:44 It's a consequence of the democracy Jul 07 13:33:57 We're going towards the same thing in France Jul 07 13:33:59 SpeedEvil, if they get nuclear weapons, so be it Jul 07 13:34:02 Any_Key: it all depends on the values with which the classes were trained Jul 07 13:34:08 iran isn't stupid Jul 07 13:34:11 of course.. but hey.. see how russia went from corrupt communism to corrupt kaapitalism, owned by the mobster... Jul 07 13:34:20 if they attack someone with nukes, they'll get nuked Jul 07 13:34:22 went qite fast Jul 07 13:34:23 and they know it Jul 07 13:34:44 ieatlint: In between some will die, and we won't get our phones Jul 07 13:34:49 i expect the republican party here to split Jul 07 13:34:50 So it's as bad :p Jul 07 13:34:56 (My keyboard is killing me) Jul 07 13:35:04 the republican party is divided Jul 07 13:35:17 ieatlint thats why having ones is stupid in the first place (especially because its fscking expensive to 'have' Jul 07 13:35:18 bets off all, lets train our phones to be gentle :-) very nice work! Jul 07 13:35:32 between the "evolution doesn't exist" and the people who believe socialism is evil Jul 07 13:35:43 socialism is the worst Jul 07 13:35:46 ieatlint e.g. germany doesnt have nukes. and still is on the list of 'countries which just could build one if needed' Jul 07 13:35:46 Hahah, "evolution doesn't exist" Jul 07 13:35:47 i fully expect there to be a wig party returning Jul 07 13:36:08 roh: as could microsoft. Jul 07 13:36:09 roh, yeah, well, sarkozy offered germany nukes Jul 07 13:36:12 I'm such a great fan of the Flying Spaghetti Monster :-) Jul 07 13:36:24 FSM FTW Jul 07 13:36:29 :-P Jul 07 13:36:32 ja, FSM FTW! Jul 07 13:36:43 ieatlint whatfor? i guess he has understood one thing. not having ones is bliss. having ones gives you nothing besides _extreme_ costs Jul 07 13:36:45 says the californian/san franciscan agnostic :P Jul 07 13:37:01 he? Jul 07 13:37:04 Being agnostic is gay, so is being religious ! :-) Jul 07 13:37:14 merkel declined the offer Jul 07 13:37:18 not schoerder Jul 07 13:37:33 storing and handling such shit, and even the 'maintainance' is extemely expensive and brings one no gain in the end (besides not having radioactive leaks) .. but hey.. not having ones is even cheaper! Jul 07 13:37:56 well, i don't support nuclear weapons Jul 07 13:38:08 i support nuclear power plants, however Jul 07 13:38:11 after all.. wars with weapons are so obsolete. Jul 07 13:38:18 indeed Jul 07 13:38:23 wars are economic now Jul 07 13:38:38 wars are fought on the market.. just see how the dollar is worth nothing Jul 07 13:38:47 indeed Jul 07 13:39:10 america is as ignorant as you think Jul 07 13:39:19 but there are intelligent americans nonetheless Jul 07 13:39:22 well, most of us anyway Jul 07 13:39:26 i have friends who fly to the us for work sometimes.. they always buy lots of stuff for us who do not travel there if not forced by gun. why? its so cheap to buy electronics there Jul 07 13:39:31 roh: Saw some nice accelerometers that would just about fit in GTA01 - and give actual inertial guidance class performance, drifting under a meter in a minute. Then I got the price - 200 quid per axes :( Jul 07 13:39:35 ? i'm not big into tearing down my own country... Jul 07 13:39:47 also, i cant help but feel politics is slightly offtopic Jul 07 13:39:50 SpeedEvil hrhr Jul 07 13:40:09 kdubois indeed. Jul 07 13:40:10 i have a well above average intelligence, and i've been to over 15 european countries... i fall into a very small minority of americans Jul 07 13:40:19 i am not elitist, but i am proud of where i come from Jul 07 13:40:25 kdubois: yeah it was nicer when we talked about how debian sucks :-) Jul 07 13:40:28 I'm not big into tearing down my own country (USA) either, but our leadership has been destroying this country for decades and the ignorant public school educated nits don't care Jul 07 13:40:49 but i also have been know to say that i am from the bear flag republic (ie, california) Jul 07 13:40:54 And the UK has utterly failed to exploit our oil wealth. Jul 07 13:41:01 Whcih is a shame, now it's all run out. Jul 07 13:41:04 ieatlint its not about intelligence. its about people who do stuff and not just sit around and do not care or ignore stuff. but yeah-.. this discussion went much to far Jul 07 13:41:22 Ainulindale: the default etch kernel has a bug that makes gdb useless ;) but i still use debian anyways Jul 07 13:41:22 i do what is within my power Jul 07 13:41:29 ieatlint: I'm from the Great Sovereign Republic of Texas myself. ;-) Jul 07 13:41:42 i attend protests, i sign petitions, i vote for politicians who support my beliefs Jul 07 13:41:57 Which is pretty useless nowadays unfortunately Jul 07 13:42:01 Xaos, and the bear flag honours texas Jul 07 13:42:07 ;-) Jul 07 13:42:17 the california flag's star and red stripe is a homage to texas :) Jul 07 13:42:23 too many people think in 'countries' or republics or so anyways.... its always 'inner-world-politics' not 'inner or outer country' Jul 07 13:42:27 nice...I did NOT know that Jul 07 13:42:44 yep, we broke off from mexico just as texas did Jul 07 13:42:59 but we did it after texas, and designed our flag in honour of our role model -- texas Jul 07 13:43:15 I wish we (those in the US) would go back to thinking of ourselves as citizens of our states (e.g. Texans) as opposed to Americans...we were better off back then Jul 07 13:43:17 one who thinks till a border has failed already. international markets, international information networks, people do not care about lines on maps anymore. they travel, they sell and buy, they work. the rest is unimportant Jul 07 13:43:53 Xaos nationalism gets you nowhere. i am german, believe me. i know. Jul 07 13:44:01 not true Jul 07 13:44:06 nationalism gets you far Jul 07 13:44:10 (nope) Jul 07 13:44:21 californians are nationalistic Jul 07 13:44:23 exactly...I'm speaking about identifying with my State...not the Federation of States Jul 07 13:44:25 I quite agree with my fellow european ;-) Jul 07 13:44:25 ieatlint: it does not. small government for the win Jul 07 13:44:25 and it helps us Jul 07 13:44:33 we buy local, we support local Jul 07 13:44:34 ieatlint nope. because in the end any country needs stuff from somewhere else. Jul 07 13:44:46 true Jul 07 13:44:48 ieatlint e.g. coffee. doesnt grow everywhere. that simple Jul 07 13:44:52 back to phones? Jul 07 13:44:54 roh: that's where the market comes in...not nationalism Jul 07 13:44:58 coffee, fine Jul 07 13:44:59 back to phones Jul 07 13:45:08 which I'm getting from Taiwan ;-) Jul 07 13:45:09 ieatlint that is nothing which one needs to force. the rising oilprices take care already. Jul 07 13:45:10 but name another produce that can't come from california :P Jul 07 13:45:16 roh: yay, coffee, here's an example I can understand :-) Jul 07 13:45:33 let's talk about these Taiwanese phones for a bit... Jul 07 13:45:36 It's a pity only an american company sells good green coffee :-) Jul 07 13:45:45 Xaos market means 'world'. any company who segments markets is wrong and will fail on the long run. Jul 07 13:45:45 all i can say, is think of california as a country unto itself Jul 07 13:45:52 Are they shipping the whole lot today (for those of us that bought one)? Jul 07 13:45:52 we're pretty decent then Jul 07 13:46:17 will they send shipping confirmation (and tracking numbers)? Jul 07 13:46:35 i have a dozen produce markets within walking distance of me, all of whom get their produce from local farms Jul 07 13:46:48 i think there will be a confirmation with tracking number. atleast our shopsystem is prepared for that Jul 07 13:46:58 the tomato craze here in the US due to contaminated crops... not an issue here Jul 07 13:47:01 roh: and regarding the resellers in Europe ? Jul 07 13:47:10 I was wondering when bearstech will received its lot Jul 07 13:47:11 i walk to the market, get tomatoes direct from the farm Jul 07 13:47:31 Good morning gentlemen, and Ainulindale. Jul 07 13:47:32 Ainulindale dunno. thats totally seperate. they have their own duty to talk woth customers. Jul 07 13:47:44 Dave: hey :-) Jul 07 13:47:46 :p Jul 07 13:47:52 Ainulindale distributor means they handle everything with the customer themselves Jul 07 13:47:58 ieatlint: 'food miles' is a meaningless concept and those that treat it as the sole metric should be stabbed. Jul 07 13:48:01 roh: Yep, I was just wondering if their bunch was sent Jul 07 13:48:14 SpeedEvil, incorrect Jul 07 13:48:14 Excellent! Jul 07 13:48:23 gilroy, california Jul 07 13:48:28 garlic capitol of the US Jul 07 13:48:47 anyone who buys garlic in the US that isn't from gilroy be damned Jul 07 13:49:08 food miles is meaningful Jul 07 13:49:13 What? Jul 07 13:49:22 i've met the famers who grow my crops Jul 07 13:49:22 How dare you insult the Garlic! Jul 07 13:49:34 ieatlint: you need to coneider total carbon emissions, if you're claiming food miles is a proxy for that - which it's not. Flowers grown in african and flown to the UK can produce less CO2 over lifetime than ones grown in europe - as the ones in europe need heated greenhouses. Jul 07 13:49:35 * Dave garlicsmites ieatlint Jul 07 13:49:58 i claim nothing with flowers Jul 07 13:50:03 i claim with local crops Jul 07 13:50:20 ieatlint: local crops - not grown in heated conditions - it's a bit more level. Jul 07 13:50:24 the local produce stands stock what is in season Jul 07 13:50:43 exactly Jul 07 13:50:52 my local produce stands sell california produce Jul 07 13:51:06 if it's not in season, it's not available Jul 07 13:51:18 the supermarket sells not-in-season produce, however Jul 07 13:51:42 i am not an environmentalist Jul 07 13:51:52 ieatlint well.. lets wait and see.. i will bet that the bowing to the industry which allowed seeds to be copyrighted and genetic modified crops for being resistant to diverse chemical stuff will be a desaster in the end Jul 07 13:52:01 ieatlint, do you grow your own crops *wink* *wink* Jul 07 13:52:07 but i am proud of my local heritage, and that includes buying only from local farms Jul 07 13:52:17 monocultures always end in disaster in nature. it needs pluralism. same as opensource. Jul 07 13:52:23 it would be illegal for me to grow my own crops :P Jul 07 13:52:45 and i support genetically modified crops Jul 07 13:52:53 i am not an organic freak Jul 07 13:53:03 the interresting point btw is that this stuff is mostly infertile and thus cannot generate new seeds Jul 07 13:53:11 but yeah, i live in a US national park, where introducing foreign plants is a federal crime Jul 07 13:53:16 which is basically the 'lock-in' for the seed-companies Jul 07 13:54:21 ieatlint the point with genetic modifies crops is that its a 'totalitarian' decicion (which btw currently means that us growers cannot sell stuff to europe) Jul 07 13:54:23 also means any crime i commit is federal offence Jul 07 13:54:24 they can also bring disease which wipes out an entire species :) Jul 07 13:54:49 just look at what happened to grapes Jul 07 13:54:53 heh Jul 07 13:54:59 because you cannot make it happen that it doesnt 'spread' and cross its genetics with wildlife Jul 07 13:55:15 ace-- yap. Jul 07 13:55:42 well, my whisky is catching up Jul 07 13:55:43 fucking around with nature in the goal of building monocultures is a recipe for disaster. Jul 07 13:57:07 btw.. do not get me wrong.. i wouldnt mind eating these crops.. (of course i want products to be labeled to have the option to choose), but i believe i do not want the seeds allowed anywhere in europe because it would make it impossible to get non-genetic modified food then. Jul 07 13:59:24 Are we still talking abot garlic? Jul 07 14:00:07 what does federal offenses and eating crops have to do with one another? :P Jul 07 14:00:17 Is there a conspiracy here I was unaware of? :) Jul 07 14:00:29 KILLER CROPS!? Jul 07 14:01:12 KILLER CROPS ON YOUR OPENMOKO Jul 07 14:01:19 o_o Jul 07 14:01:23 * Dave ph33rs Jul 07 14:02:05 be a patriot and destroy your KILLER CROPS-bearing openmoko Jul 07 14:03:16 * HauDyrArb arrgh Brains Jul 07 14:03:58 BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNSSSSSSSS Jul 07 14:04:26 Wander, wouldn't that be nice :) Jul 07 14:05:02 btw.. i can really recommentd to listen to the brazil OST while working on OM related stuff Jul 07 14:05:05 dave: I'm afraid I can't do that, dave Jul 07 14:05:15 * Dave stabbity-stabs WAnder_w. Jul 07 14:05:32 Actually, more aptly... Jul 07 14:05:39 * Dave beats Wander_w with doc|home. Jul 07 14:05:49 ouch Jul 07 14:05:50 :D Jul 07 14:05:58 Canucked! Jul 07 14:06:17 Impersonating HAL should be considered a Federal Offense! Jul 07 14:06:20 :P Jul 07 14:06:50 only if the officer/judge is also called "Dave" Jul 07 14:07:02 ~_~ Jul 07 14:07:03 STOP DOING THAT! Jul 07 14:07:12 Unlikely... Jul 07 14:07:20 FOR THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE! Jul 07 14:07:36 and ONE other.. Jul 07 14:07:41 and ONE other Jul 07 14:07:44 What one other!? Jul 07 14:07:45 and ONE other... Jul 07 14:07:53 the other guy called dave Jul 07 14:07:55 * Dave draws his sword... Jul 07 14:08:15 do you need a pencil to draw that? Jul 07 14:08:35 hi. I just created an #openmoko-fr channel, and, as I saw that #openmoko is registered as primary group, I thought about asking there for it. Jul 07 14:08:38 * Dave runs Wander_w through for getting in the way. Jul 07 14:09:34 gee thanks Jul 07 14:09:36 piti: bonne ide :-) Jul 07 14:09:45 Ainulindale, ;) Jul 07 14:09:49 French -_-; Jul 07 14:10:43 ran through by a nationalist what a drag Jul 07 14:11:08 nationalism is the cause of war Jul 07 14:12:14 its starts in junior high then gets worse in highschool then we practice it the rest of our stupid lives Jul 07 14:18:48 linuxxr well.. sometimes i think children should learn to be happy with what they have... after all for the most of us, living in the '1st' world its more bickering about unimportant stuff than anybody who really would have had a reason to bicker because of missing food or drinking water could understand Jul 07 14:25:25 Let's see what other exciting apps I can install on the phone :D Jul 07 14:25:57 ahoi Jul 07 14:27:59 anyone know where i can grab a ASU build to play with? Don't have net at home, but was hoping to grab one here at work to take home and flash... Jul 07 14:29:35 trickie: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/ Jul 07 14:29:43 ASU is qtopia-x11 Jul 07 14:30:02 dos1: thanks Jul 07 14:37:19 Joerg! :) Jul 07 14:38:17 Dave: yeah, just found the time to have a look at irc, before I leave for brunch in sunset ;-) Jul 07 14:40:25 Yay :) Jul 07 14:40:31 Nice to see you, Joerg. Jul 07 14:41:28 Dave: have a look at nickname-list! I'm already gone to have a meal ;-) Jul 07 14:41:42 nice to meet ya too Jul 07 14:42:01 * jOERG_rw leaves room Jul 07 14:44:26 hmmmmm coffee Jul 07 14:47:34 the gsoc dude made a video Jul 07 14:47:37 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX50lXuJ28Q Jul 07 14:50:39 Wander_w: I though you misunderstood the "fr" in the channel name :-) Jul 07 14:54:42 Ainulindale: I didn't misunderstand, I'm just bored Jul 07 14:55:06 damn, all the eu retailer raised prices:( Jul 07 14:55:06 ...and reading a bit of french once in a while doesn't hurt Jul 07 14:55:19 (just no-one seems to be talking there) Jul 07 14:55:33 TAsn: damn, how much is it now? Jul 07 14:55:37 350eu in two of the german ones, and 330 in pulster Jul 07 14:55:39 TAsn: raised ? Jul 07 14:55:49 i think truebox is still 272 eu though. Jul 07 14:55:51 TAsn: 328 on bearstech, never moved Jul 07 14:56:00 Wander_w, and that's without shipment! Jul 07 14:56:00 But there's french vat Jul 07 14:56:26 truebox is 272gbp inc in uk shipment* Jul 07 14:56:43 Ainulindale, im really thinking about getting it from the us ;\ Jul 07 14:56:48 in british pounds... so like.. 400 euros? Jul 07 14:56:52 though i would really like the warrenty. Jul 07 14:57:01 TAsn: did you try group sales ? Jul 07 14:57:09 TAsn: in France there's a 1 year warranty Jul 07 14:57:15 Wander_w, 350 +- Jul 07 14:57:22 where do you live out of curiosity ? Jul 07 14:57:24 Ainulindale, in all of the eu there's 2 year iirc. Jul 07 14:57:30 Ainulindale, israel... Jul 07 14:57:36 Oh yeah :-/ Jul 07 14:57:50 Ainulindale, sucks to be me ;\ Jul 07 14:57:56 Wow...glad to be a Texan! 407 U.S. dollars = 259.417426 Euros Jul 07 14:58:02 If you weren't so far I could have bought one for you and brought it to you but Israel is a little bit too far Jul 07 14:58:03 we also have huge taxes here. Jul 07 14:58:11 Xaos: yep but you're getting the 850 one Jul 07 14:58:12 so I'm getting my Neo for 260 euros...cool Jul 07 14:58:13 Ainulindale, hehe :) where are you from? Jul 07 14:58:16 France Jul 07 14:58:32 Xaos: 260EUR? :) Jul 07 14:58:35 Ainulindale, i have a french uncle Jul 07 14:58:35 it's a good thing I'm getting the 850...otherwise it wouldn't work as well here in the States Jul 07 14:58:40 ;-) Jul 07 14:58:40 im thinking about asking him. Jul 07 14:58:41 that's acceptable prices Jul 07 14:58:49 Xaos: noone wants the US FR anyway :P Jul 07 14:59:06 good...market forces drive the price down for those of us that do Jul 07 15:00:17 Xaos, damn you ;( Jul 07 15:01:09 An interesting figure from a vendor of a small embedded CPU board. (can run linux, very small) was that about 1% of his sales are to the USA. Jul 07 15:03:12 then that company sucks at marketing Jul 07 15:03:35 TAsn: you should ask him then Jul 07 15:04:12 Ainulindale, i know. Jul 07 15:04:20 my only consideration Jul 07 15:05:01 is whether to buy in in the us for 260Euro without a warranty or for 330 euro with one. Jul 07 15:05:03 ;\ Jul 07 15:05:24 TAsn: with bearstech you also have a sd card, the pouch and the headset Jul 07 15:05:36 which wasn't the pulster offer as I remember Jul 07 15:05:40 TAsn: don't you need to pay import taxes over those 260 euro's? Jul 07 15:05:53 does the freerunner use alsa? Jul 07 15:05:58 afaik yes Jul 07 15:05:58 Wander_w, shh, don't tell the government :) Jul 07 15:06:20 Wander_w: not if it's considered as a gift Jul 07 15:06:23 Ainulindale, do i really need the pouch and the headset? Jul 07 15:06:24 have them (company X in the USA) wrap it in gift paper :) Jul 07 15:06:27 TAsn: Your choice Jul 07 15:06:41 Wander_w: in France there's a tolerance for small items Jul 07 15:06:53 TAsn: do you want scratches on your openmoko? Jul 07 15:06:54 and iirc pulster does ship with a 512 sd card. Jul 07 15:06:58 For example I'm used to buy cds in the USA Jul 07 15:07:00 Wander_w, no. Jul 07 15:07:05 I only pay high shipping Jul 07 15:07:07 TAsn: then you need a pouch Jul 07 15:07:13 Wander_w, do you have a picture of it? Jul 07 15:07:13 But a 2 euros CDs when it's 20 in France... Jul 07 15:07:25 the shipping from openmoko.com is crazy expensive Jul 07 15:07:37 $170 for me Jul 07 15:07:39 TAsn: depends on what "it" is Jul 07 15:07:45 that's _really_ crazy Jul 07 15:07:52 TAsn: then you need a pouch Jul 07 15:07:56 igor321, i know. Jul 07 15:08:00 TAsn: then no Jul 07 15:08:03 100+ to here. Jul 07 15:08:27 Have anyone tried the invisibleshield for openmoko? Jul 07 15:08:29 Ainulindale, i think sending it as a gift from the us is a good idea :) Jul 07 15:08:29 igor321: did you order the openmoko-tombstone too? Jul 07 15:08:30 igor321: for all your needs - a polished granite curved slab, with a distinctive loop at the top. Jul 07 15:08:49 TAsn: Depends on the version you want Jul 07 15:09:07 Ainulindale, i want the 900, i will wait for it. Jul 07 15:09:13 SpeedEvil: do you get the source code with that? Jul 07 15:09:27 SpeedEvil: yes the shipping is crazy :) it's like $30-40 for USPS Jul 07 15:09:54 $170, that's... i don't know... a really impolite price :) Jul 07 15:09:58 Wander_w: it's all hardware. No software. Jul 07 15:10:34 SpeedEvil: ah... ok... what about the CAD drawings? Jul 07 15:10:46 Hello everybody Jul 07 15:10:58 hmmm.. I get this from the openmoko store: "Unfortunately there is no Shipping Rate available for your destination and/or weight of your cart" Jul 07 15:11:17 Wander_w: where do you live? Jul 07 15:11:27 The Netherlands Jul 07 15:11:35 oh that's weird Jul 07 15:11:52 ...or should I put in a real adres first? Jul 07 15:12:07 nah, i just put in my contry and town Jul 07 15:12:19 every thing else sadfgdsd Jul 07 15:13:05 Now I've tried it with "Amsterdam" (because, you know, that is where *everybody* in the netherlands lives) and it's 83 dollar to ship Jul 07 15:13:20 Wander_w: get one from a european supplier, then it doesn't cost the world for shipping Jul 07 15:13:26 oh, that ain't much Jul 07 15:14:31 trickie: it is actually cheaper to import one from the USA Jul 07 15:14:48 just 307 euro's with shipping included Jul 07 15:15:11 Wander_w: they propably slap all kinds of taxes on ya Jul 07 15:15:14 hmmm, ok... except you will get charged tax yeah? Jul 07 15:15:29 on 307 euros... you will pay at least 50 euro tax Jul 07 15:15:36 I wonder how much they charge for a gift wrap? Jul 07 15:15:56 haha, that rarely works nowadays Jul 07 15:16:00 unfortunately Jul 07 15:16:31 so, if i order it as a gift to my girlfriend... then its a gift right? Jul 07 15:16:55 or is this just for gifts from USAians to europeans? Jul 07 15:17:17 i had many ebay gifts taxed :) Jul 07 15:17:23 but i wouldn't know Jul 07 15:17:49 Yep, it depends on Jul 07 15:17:50 i doubt the openmoko shop would write whose gift is it Jul 07 15:17:56 customs Jul 07 15:18:04 I wasn't sure, but thanks :-) Jul 07 15:18:32 yeah boureaucracy sucks Jul 07 15:18:37 i had to get a permit even Jul 07 15:18:41 for the openmoko Jul 07 15:18:49 permit? why? Jul 07 15:19:08 if they in anyway declare the goods as a phone/electrical gadget i bet you will get charged... happens to me everytime in AMS Jul 07 15:19:11 cause it uses radiofrequencies :) Jul 07 15:19:39 igor321: where was that? that you needed permits for? Jul 07 15:19:41 igor321: yeah, that's the whole point of a telephone Jul 07 15:20:00 i realise that :) it's just that i live in croatia Jul 07 15:20:07 and small governments Jul 07 15:20:11 they like to control Jul 07 15:20:17 ya know? ;) Jul 07 15:20:51 so i had to get a permit to import a phone :) Jul 07 15:20:51 don't all goverments like to control? Jul 07 15:20:59 yeah but the small ones Jul 07 15:21:11 Depends on the country you live in I guess :-) Jul 07 15:21:12 they are like the person with the smallest penis Jul 07 15:21:21 they have to ride the biggest car Jul 07 15:21:25 Argh Jul 07 15:21:34 i hope you get the analogy :) Jul 07 15:21:36 Some child is practicing the flute near me Jul 07 15:21:58 And I'm gentle when I say "practicing" Jul 07 15:22:07 Looks as if he's trying to kill a pig with it Jul 07 15:23:31 Ainulindale: Don't be so ungracious. Jul 07 15:23:38 Ainulindale: Unless you don't eat pork. Jul 07 15:23:48 If I had a microphone I would register it Jul 07 15:24:03 Because you know, you're on your balcony happily drinking coffee while discussing with people Jul 07 15:24:11 And next thing you know you're deaf Jul 07 15:24:28 (And I do eat pork. Pork is good for you.) Jul 07 15:24:36 "take your flute and shove it, kid" Jul 07 15:24:37 (In fact I think I will cut myself some slice of a nice french saucisson) Jul 07 15:25:39 guys, i need a labcoat Jul 07 15:26:40 tunys: http://www.sexypvclabcoats.com/ Jul 07 15:26:41 Are you sure you don't require a different type of white coat? ;) Jul 07 15:26:54 tunys: or just ebay. Jul 07 15:27:06 What's sad is I actually clicked that link... Jul 07 15:27:23 SpeedEvil, A used labcoat? with people's smeared organs on it??? Jul 07 15:27:31 Sounds nice Jul 07 15:27:53 No, I'll smear organs on my labcoat MYSELF! Jul 07 15:30:11 I bet you're the only one with that quit message... Jul 07 15:30:40 we use Looonix, no steenking virus can affect us Jul 07 15:31:06 * tunys SSHs into Sup3rkiddo and forkbombs his kernel Jul 07 15:31:10 And we call ourselves loonatix = Jul 07 15:31:13 ! Jul 07 15:40:04 That's a bit more extreme. Jul 07 15:40:06 oops Jul 07 15:49:54 ARM920T rev 0 (v4l) == ARMv4. rite? Jul 07 16:04:25 ieatlint: The problem is solved for me. I got myself a new SIM card from my operator, and it works like a charm! Jul 07 16:05:35 is there something similar to /etc/timezone? or can i just create it like on the desktop Jul 07 16:06:49 * Tanuva wonders how one should enter a pin in asu/qtopia on a keyboard which only has letters... Jul 07 16:07:47 michael: http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:all4mXYBT78J:www.rwhitby.net/blog/nslu2-linux/setting-the-openmoko-timezone.html+site:rwhitby.net&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=23 Jul 07 16:07:57 Tanuva: click some letter and drag on top Jul 07 16:08:04 Tanuva switch to numbers with a stroke 'up' Jul 07 16:08:15 Tanuva: this will show you numbers and special symbols Jul 07 16:08:20 ah :) Jul 07 16:09:54 abraxa_: thanks Jul 07 16:11:39 Hmpf, still can't resolve this setup.py issue Jul 07 16:14:05 dos1, does that give you access to a delete key? that was something I could not find on the asu (mind you I did not find the numbers either) Jul 07 16:15:17 Tig|: delete key is when you drag some letter on left ;] Jul 07 16:15:37 blast I was looking ages for that :( Jul 07 16:17:59 Where should I look for zhone files ? Jul 07 16:19:37 Ainulindale, its a python script...so nano /usr/bin/zhone Jul 07 16:19:55 nope my problem is bitbake can't build zhone Jul 07 16:20:01 because it lacks some setup.py file Jul 07 16:20:23 Ainulindale, hmm, pastebin?....letme try rebuilding zhone Jul 07 16:20:58 wait for me to reset env variables Jul 07 16:22:38 Ainulindale, builds fine here Jul 07 16:24:11 hello ;) Jul 07 16:24:50 Just got myself a shiny new Freerunner! Beautiful, works nicely, but is slow as hell, and has no software.. How do I remedy these two minor problems? Jul 07 16:25:26 ecraven: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ Jul 07 16:25:45 http://pastebin.com/m6fbf5476 <- Sup3rkiddo Jul 07 16:26:13 strange. I can ping the neo from my wlan, but I cant ping other wlan clients from the neo... Jul 07 16:26:14 So seemingly my sources lack the setup.py file Jul 07 16:26:21 Tanuva: routes ? Jul 07 16:26:33 Tanuva: IP forwarding enabled? Jul 07 16:26:35 Ainulindale: only the one for eth0 exists.. Jul 07 16:26:52 abraxa_: the neo is on the wlan, no forwarding nessecary... Jul 07 16:26:58 Tanuva: well then add routes for your wlan, no ? Jul 07 16:27:02 it should access the router directly Jul 07 16:27:14 Isn't it on a different subnet ? Jul 07 16:27:23 no Jul 07 16:27:32 eth0 is on the same net as my other pc Jul 07 16:27:33 Tanuva tried with some other wifi client? Jul 07 16:27:55 Tanuva: Ah right, my bad. Jul 07 16:28:01 Sup3rkiddo: so, what do you think ? Jul 07 16:28:08 Tanuva there are accesspoints which can do client-isolation.. basically 'do not forward wifi to wifi'-feature Jul 07 16:28:14 Ainulindale, just sec, my browsers are buggy Jul 07 16:28:27 roh: but then my whole lan wouldnt work like it does :) Jul 07 16:28:30 Where do I find images for ASU/FSO? Jul 07 16:28:44 Tanuva ok.. so you are sure that works.. Jul 07 16:28:45 ecraven: check the wiki for "Latest_Images" Jul 07 16:29:13 roh: aaahm... hmm.. just noticing.. give me a minute... Jul 07 16:29:20 Ainulindale, ah, i see you are not using Makefile? Jul 07 16:29:35 Nope, I just did a simple bitbake fso-image Jul 07 16:29:41 with OE git repository Jul 07 16:29:45 err mtn repository Jul 07 16:29:54 Does the standard image support any wlan? Or do I need to flash a new image via usb? Jul 07 16:31:00 roh: hm. route is correct. Jul 07 16:31:01 Ainulindale, hmm, i am not aware really, since i havent use OE directly, you could cross-check your recipes with the download location....more often its a case of changing ${WORKDIR} a bit Jul 07 16:31:19 Sup3rkiddo: Hmmm, don't know how to do that I fear :-) Jul 07 16:31:49 Are the ASU snapshots usable in general? For phone and text? Jul 07 16:31:57 Ainulindale, packages/freesmartphone/zhone_*.bb, (note that this may not be right) Jul 07 16:32:57 Yep but it does seem to me as if a file was missing, but it gets the file correctly Jul 07 16:33:08 So I guessed that wasn't the problem Jul 07 16:33:20 The only file I have in the sources is a file named "zhone" though Jul 07 16:33:28 Ainulindale, hmm, could you paste the ${WORKDIR} here, lets see if it matches with mine Jul 07 16:33:37 Ainulindale, i often screw up with that...:P Jul 07 16:33:49 The workdir of my .bb ? Jul 07 16:34:21 Ainulindale, yeppity yep Jul 07 16:34:54 Ainulindale, S = "${WORKDIR}/git" Jul 07 16:34:59 ^^ Jul 07 16:35:20 same here Jul 07 16:37:20 where is it supposed to download sources ? Jul 07 16:37:30 Ainulindale, under tmp/work/ Jul 07 16:37:39 first thing I checked, and just a file then Jul 07 16:38:34 Ainulindale, under here?, build/tmp/work/om-gta02-angstrom-linux-gnueabi Jul 07 16:38:49 /zhone-0.0.0+gitr4+c1b73d7b4bc3a1abacc871a30cd8c0fb44a5d38b-r4 Jul 07 16:38:50 ? Jul 07 16:38:53 ah. ping does *neither* work to the neo nor from it. I accidentally tested it using the usb connection Jul 07 16:39:23 Hmmm weirdly enough for me it's in tmp/work/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/zhone-0.0.0+gitr900105c27bd176fdca4e8f896b2c8221181491de-r6/ Jul 07 16:39:45 (weirdly for "armv4t") Jul 07 16:39:53 Sorry to ask again, my connection dropped: Are the ASU snapshots usable in general? For phone and text? Jul 07 16:41:20 Sup3rkiddo: Did I misconfigured something ? Jul 07 16:42:19 Ainulindale, i am not sure, run bitbake with the debug flag Jul 07 16:42:59 Sup3rkiddo: I meant, does the fact that my workdir is armv4t-angstrom-something is normal ? Jul 07 16:44:11 Ainulindale, i am not sure....running with debug flag for bitbake will give you some hints Jul 07 16:45:03 ecraven, I have found power issues are slightly worse on the ASU at the moment Jul 07 16:45:13 Sup3rkiddo: hmmmmm Jul 07 16:45:17 | + BUILD_SYS=x86_64-linux Jul 07 16:45:17 | + HOST_SYS=arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi Jul 07 16:45:25 Doesn't look quite normal to me, does it ? Jul 07 16:45:38 ecraven, the 2007.2 builds are still probably the best for phone and text Jul 07 16:45:57 Ainulindale, letme run it here Jul 07 16:47:59 Ainulindale, its the same for me as well Jul 07 16:48:05 yay. my neo's gsm-enabled :) Jul 07 16:49:23 well then with the r9 I don't have the same files you have with the r4 Jul 07 16:49:35 this question probably gets asks every 10 minutes from new people in here, but can I just buy an openmoko (correct gsm version) and pop a sim card in it? Jul 07 16:49:45 Ainulindale, yeah, my tree is a bit behind Jul 07 16:49:49 from a local provider in my area. it is of course sold as an unlocked phone? Jul 07 16:50:17 ronocdh: yeah that should work. seems a few people have trouble with their sim-cards though Jul 07 16:50:23 of course there is no locking Jul 07 16:50:31 Sup3rkiddo: so I guess there's a problem with the latest version Jul 07 16:50:58 Ainulindale, yeah should be, i didnt note the revision as i should, iirc, OM tree is a bit behind OE Jul 07 16:51:28 So what should I do ? Jul 07 16:51:54 i have no idea :/...sorry...maybe some OE guru can help Jul 07 16:52:16 Mickeeeyyyy ! :-) Jul 07 16:52:17 Ainulindale: You're still having build problems? Jul 07 16:52:30 wurp2: Yep Jul 07 16:52:46 Either I'm dumb or doomed Jul 07 16:52:48 http://pastebin.com/m6fbf5476 Jul 07 16:53:02 Tig|: are those the ones that come with the phone? Jul 07 16:53:10 That's what we get while trying to build latest I guess :-) Jul 07 16:53:33 Is that if you just try a straight download & build? Jul 07 16:53:39 No fiddling with conf parameters? Jul 07 16:53:41 bobkare: thank you. i'm very eager to pick one of these up. Jul 07 16:53:48 wurp2: just setting the right machine Jul 07 16:54:23 What is your machine? Jul 07 16:54:32 MACHINE="om-gta01" Jul 07 16:54:39 and DISTRO="openmoko" Jul 07 16:54:41 Didn't it default to that? Jul 07 16:54:46 I though tmine defaulted to that Jul 07 16:54:55 And I didn't fiddle with the DISTRO, either... Jul 07 16:54:56 ecraven, yes but there are slightly updated images available off the om.com website Jul 07 16:55:04 Default distro is angstrom Jul 07 16:55:11 I just put openmoko as adviced on some wiki article Jul 07 16:55:15 Isn't that correct? Jul 07 16:55:24 I suppose so Jul 07 16:55:28 Hmm, I built zhone with the default distro Jul 07 16:55:32 and machine Jul 07 16:55:53 And the image it generated was a gta01 image Jul 07 16:55:54 I don't know the right person which could help me with that so... stuck again :-) Jul 07 16:56:02 What I did: Jul 07 16:56:16 Blew away *everything*. Clobber doesn't clobber everything. Jul 07 16:56:21 wget the MokoMakefile Jul 07 16:56:29 clean out all my environment variables Jul 07 16:56:34 I'm building with bitbake wurp2 Jul 07 16:56:41 With openembedded mtn Jul 07 16:56:41 Ainulindale: O Jul 07 16:56:50 nm, I am of no use to you then :-) Jul 07 16:57:05 I was willing to try the latest Jul 07 16:57:18 In fact I did exactly what's written on the wiki FSO page Jul 07 16:57:26 (as I wrote that...)) Jul 07 16:57:33 You will end up with all the bitbake directory structures if you use mokomakefile... Jul 07 16:57:42 Yep but it doesn't get the same versions Jul 07 16:57:47 MM just calls bitbake over & over afaict Jul 07 16:57:50 Ah, OK Jul 07 16:57:52 Ainulindale, you could hack the recipes for that Jul 07 16:58:07 * Sup3rkiddo uses vala from svn which isnt in the OE mtn at all Jul 07 16:58:51 Can anybody give me his SRC_URI for zhone_git.bb ? Jul 07 16:59:39 Ainulindale, SRC_URI = "${FREESMARTPHONE_GIT}/zhone.git;protocol=git;branch=master Jul 07 17:00:36 Same here Jul 07 17:01:01 and your FREESMARTPHONE_GIT is ? Jul 07 17:01:32 Ainulindale, git.freesmartphone.org Jul 07 17:01:43 (where is it located by the way ?) Jul 07 17:02:40 org.openembedded.dev/conf/bitbake.conf:FREESMARTPHONE_GIT = "git://git.freesmartphone.org" Jul 07 17:02:44 Same thing here then Jul 07 17:05:58 Does bitbake updates the sources if they're not up to date ? Jul 07 17:06:01 -s Jul 07 17:07:06 Ainulindale, i think it checks sane-srcrevs for packages from svn/cvs/git Jul 07 17:07:40 Meaning ? :-) Jul 07 17:09:12 Ainulindale, its in openembedded/conf/distro/include Jul 07 17:09:57 Ainulindale, DISCLAIMER: i may be leading you to a wild goose chase which is often the case Jul 07 17:10:03 :-) Jul 07 17:10:13 seems there is an autorev for fso Jul 07 17:10:44 Ainulindale, you could set zhone to ${AUTOREV} in sane-srcrev, not sure if its the right way though Jul 07 17:10:51 it's already there Jul 07 17:11:06 <_ferric> o hai! Jul 07 17:11:14 Ainulindale, oh ok Jul 07 17:11:33 but then hmmm Jul 07 17:11:44 there's another entry in sane-srcrevs.inc Jul 07 17:11:48 which matches my version Jul 07 17:12:22 Ainulindale, try changing to ${AUTOREV} there Jul 07 17:12:49 Hi _ferric Jul 07 17:13:12 <_ferric> sup wurp2? Jul 07 17:13:26 <_ferric> any luck getting raw fso working with 2007.2? Jul 07 17:13:58 No real progress yet Jul 07 17:14:03 _ferric, you can make it work, but the apps should use it... Jul 07 17:14:23 I hunted down where the window manager was set, and I've been researching how to mount the jffs2 files on my PC so I can diff 'em Jul 07 17:14:31 <_ferric> Sup3rkiddo: indeed. have you been following our little SHR thread? Jul 07 17:15:38 _ferric, yeah, i wasn't aware you are working on that Jul 07 17:16:05 Sup3rkiddo: worked Jul 07 17:16:08 autorev fell out with r6 Jul 07 17:16:14 aha Jul 07 17:16:20 So you're my new god, do you mind ? Jul 07 17:16:50 Ainulindale, muhuhuhuhahaha Jul 07 17:16:51 <_ferric> Sup3rkiddo: damn that wiki page says so! Jul 07 17:17:12 <_ferric> Sup3rkiddo: i'm not doing much yet though, i blew a capacitor on myu linux box's PSU so it's dead in the water. Jul 07 17:17:19 Does anyone know if it's still possible to use the random thingy on the wiki in any way, it had a button a few months ago? Jul 07 17:17:32 <_ferric> spydon: what random thingy? Jul 07 17:17:51 Sup3rkiddo: So I guess from your laugh my new divinity is evil ? :-) Jul 07 17:17:57 _ferric, i could use some help with my soc project as well...i am doing a c (vala) implementation of odeviced Jul 07 17:18:00 Ainulindale, :P Jul 07 17:18:10 _ferric, you could get random pages in the wiki Jul 07 17:18:25 <_ferric> Sup3rkiddo: yes, I've been reading your BS on devel@ Jul 07 17:18:34 ferric :P Jul 07 17:18:36 _ferric: His BS? Jul 07 17:18:38 Could someone give me link to the page on the Wiki describing how to configure u-boot with cu or minicom? Jul 07 17:18:40 _ferric, *sniff* Jul 07 17:18:50 * _ferric hugs Sup3rkiddo Jul 07 17:19:00 <_ferric> wurp2: a joke! i made a funny. Jul 07 17:19:20 wurp2: http://gentoo-wiki.com/Mounting_a_block_device_with_JFFS2 Jul 07 17:19:38 _ferric: awesome Jul 07 17:19:54 <_ferric> heh. no, i think Sup3rkiddo is actually doing cool shit. Jul 07 17:19:56 lindi-: It's not a block device, it's a file Jul 07 17:20:24 yay Jul 07 17:20:26 lindi-: The place where I left off, I had a script that would mount the file as a fake block device, but one of the binaries it needs, I didn't have Jul 07 17:20:27 <_ferric> Sup3rkiddo: in terms of background, though, the current implementation of odeviced is not in C? Jul 07 17:20:28 wurp2: they use losetup to make a file bloc device Jul 07 17:20:28 shit is hot Jul 07 17:20:42 lindi-: Was looking into how to get it ... blkmtd or something Jul 07 17:20:47 _ferric, vala generates C, so its c code which runs in the end Jul 07 17:20:51 Sup3rkiddo: if it is - get to a doctor! Jul 07 17:20:52 wurp2: mtdblock needs an mtd device Jul 07 17:21:12 <_ferric> Sup3rkiddo: aiee. what is vala? Jul 07 17:21:17 _ferric, vala doesnt need any runtime dependencies Jul 07 17:21:23 wurp2: what binary do you lack? Jul 07 17:21:32 blkmtd, I thought Jul 07 17:21:49 _ferric, its sort of a language for GObject programming...heaven if you are used to GObject boilerplate in C Jul 07 17:21:51 I'm not at home, so I can't do it right now, anyway Jul 07 17:22:25 lindi-: Your instructions are better than the ones I was looking at, thanks! Jul 07 17:22:29 Emailing to self at home. Jul 07 17:22:55 <_ferric> Sup3rkiddo: gotcha Jul 07 17:23:22 _ferric, http://live.gnome.org/Vala Jul 07 17:24:31 How do you quote the value when using setenv? Jul 07 17:25:20 _ferric, is there some sort of wiki page for SHC? Jul 07 17:26:13 <_ferric> Sup3rkiddo: yeah Jul 07 17:26:15 <_ferric> ~shr Jul 07 17:26:16 well, shr is Stable Hybrid Release, a combination of the FSO, some of the 2007.2 GTK software, and the ASU that provides all of the functionality of the 2007.2 software, but with the stability of the FSO. See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Stable_Hybrid_Release Jul 07 17:27:22 I deleted my SD boot entry from uboot, how do I make it come back? Jul 07 17:28:43 once I ifup'ed eth0 on gta02, it comes up, but there are some error messages related to unsupported operations on iocalls (http://rafb.net/p/095E5W14.html) anything to do about it? Jul 07 17:28:54 _ferric, thanks Jul 07 17:29:09 <_ferric> kein problem! Jul 07 17:29:23 wurp2: it works? good! Jul 07 17:30:26 Tanuva, you get those anyway, wifi will still work with them# Jul 07 17:33:26 SpeedEvil, must be those spices Jul 07 17:33:37 does the wireless networking work on the standard image? Jul 07 17:33:42 spice melange Jul 07 17:33:46 I can't seem to associate with an access point Jul 07 17:34:13 Tig|: then my mistake must be somewhere else - the neo is associated, but I cant ping it nor ping from it Jul 07 17:34:33 Tanuva, are you getting an IP address from it? Jul 07 17:35:12 no, it has a static address, theres no dns running on my router Jul 07 17:37:31 so, from the post on the community list, doesn't look like phones will ship until tomorrow ;( Jul 07 17:38:02 at least for those of us in the US Jul 07 17:39:13 The gps must flow! Jul 07 17:39:19 that, and the wifi :p Jul 07 17:39:43 hehe Jul 07 17:39:51 nullpuppy: thats unfortunate... :( Jul 07 17:40:05 kdubois: yup :( Jul 07 17:40:12 nullpuppy: DOH! and UPS ground is 4 days to me from Fremont CA, that means another lonely weekend Jul 07 17:40:34 Xaos: :( Jul 07 17:40:40 you might get it friday Jul 07 17:40:42 Xaos: i may in the same boat as you, ca->mi is like 3 or 4 days Jul 07 17:40:56 i'm hoping for thursday (was hopping for wednesday) Jul 07 17:41:00 UPS has a page that will calculate it for you Jul 07 17:41:17 Dave: if it just would do so... Jul 07 17:41:27 Our warehouse in Fremont, CA will be back to work on Monday (7/7) and start shipping process. Your order number should be ready to ship by Tuesday. Thanks. <-- thats from the list Jul 07 17:41:46 dude that got that was order 1562 Jul 07 17:41:56 Yes, if only :( Jul 07 17:41:58 hmmm...wonder if my order (1220) will be out sooner... Jul 07 17:42:21 Are we starting a lottery now? :P Jul 07 17:42:27 Drawing numbers? :p Jul 07 17:43:01 lindi-: I dunno if it works - I'm at work, and I can't check until I get home Jul 07 17:43:44 its estimate is saturday, i think ups does saturday deliveries? Jul 07 17:43:59 UPS ground won't deliver on Sat. sorry Jul 07 17:44:28 did you get a notice with a tracking notice? I've received nothing but an order confirmation when I placed the order Jul 07 17:45:16 Everytime i try and order from the openmoko store i just get a gateway error from hitrustpay, what is the deal with that Jul 07 17:47:28 Xaos: it sounds like we'll get tracking numbers when they ship Jul 07 17:47:39 if we're lucky, today, likely tomorrow Jul 07 17:47:59 nezticle: call your bank, they need to unlock the transfer Jul 07 17:49:07 nullpuppy: that's what I was hoping. I guess I'm just being pesty 'cause I've been waiting so long for this to actually ship. Jul 07 17:49:22 Xaos: hehe, yeah, no worries, i'm just as anxious Jul 07 17:49:33 brb Jul 07 17:51:19 Anyone know if git will update files properly if you switch repos? Jul 07 17:51:38 wurp2: ok Jul 07 17:53:35 wurp2: what do you mean? Jul 07 17:56:07 kelvie_: Well, in this specific instance I'm running MokoMakefile with one OM_GIT_BRANCH value, then I change it, and run again Jul 07 17:56:32 oh that depends on what the Makefile does Jul 07 17:56:32 But presumably what's happening behind the scenes is a git pull, then switching to another repo, then another git pull Jul 07 17:56:47 ah by repo you mean a git remote Jul 07 17:56:57 stupid git. Jul 07 17:57:01 I haven't used git directly at all (but I've used CVS & SVN extensively, and played with darcs and arch, which are similar) Jul 07 17:57:08 Dave: heh Jul 07 17:57:18 hehe.. git has its own vocabulary Jul 07 17:57:22 will the ASU be faster than the system delivered with the freerunner? Jul 07 17:57:24 Unfortunately. Jul 07 17:57:31 kelvie_: yeah, to me that's the repository... but it's a good point that really your local is a repository, too Jul 07 17:57:33 ok, i was not able to resolve my problem with curl openssl 3 Jul 07 17:57:40 here is the error output: http://rafb.net/p/s9nPfL46.html Jul 07 17:57:43 * Dave high-fives wurp Jul 07 17:57:46 I will try to use the proper terminology as I learn it :-) Jul 07 17:57:53 I am in a similar boat. Jul 07 17:57:54 can someone help me? ;-) Jul 07 17:58:04 it will be updated if it does do that Jul 07 17:58:07 Sup3rkiddo: fully working FSO image o/ Jul 07 17:58:07 a checkout + pull Jul 07 17:59:10 kelvie_: OK, then I will assume that MokoMakefile does the right things to get the proper file contents when the branch (remote) changes Jul 07 17:59:56 Dave: The "learning git" boat? Jul 07 18:00:48 I wasn't badly corrupted by SVN yet when I started to learn Git, so it was pretty smooth for me :) Jul 07 18:01:47 actually, curl is linked against openssl that is distributed via mokomakefile, isn't it? Jul 07 18:02:15 thank you Tanuva it was my bank Jul 07 18:04:10 kelvie_: Well, darcs works the same way, so I have exposure Jul 07 18:04:20 But it has been low key Jul 07 18:04:24 i booted openmoko using qemu by following http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu#Using_MokoMakefile -- i now see http://iki.fi/lindi/openmoko1.png but neither the Q or the start symbols seem to react to clicks Jul 07 18:04:41 wurp, no, the I'm used to cvs/svn for many years, along with the more optional, fuck this git bullshit, leave me alone, I understand how things work :) Jul 07 18:04:46 how do i start an application? Jul 07 18:05:12 just because you're not entirely down with the 'lingo' ;) Jul 07 18:05:18 wurp2: i like darcs too :) Jul 07 18:05:55 :] Jul 07 18:06:49 Dave: well, CVS & SVN don't let you have hierarchical repositories Jul 07 18:07:08 Dave: which is nice, 'cause it lets you have good revision controlled forks w/o any permissions from the primary devs Jul 07 18:07:14 and similar niceties Jul 07 18:11:33 if i want to put a kernel on the sd card, what exactly should its name be? /boot/uImage.bin? /boot/uImage? Jul 07 18:11:35 As far as I know, sure they do. Jul 07 18:12:02 It's always just a matter of how much sanity you are willing to sacrifice, in selecting which path you will proceed down :) Jul 07 18:12:21 but, to each their own (and their own subsequent demise). Jul 07 18:12:36 That's what I say, anyway :) Jul 07 18:14:18 the qtopia-db prevents me from unmounting the sd card (to repartition it). is it possible to disable some service that accesses the db? Jul 07 18:15:35 hot Jul 07 18:15:42 lindi: I can't get farther than that either. Jul 07 18:16:10 Xaos: i managed to get to main menu once Jul 07 18:16:13 Not to change the subject, but why are more and more people getting all ga-ga over the new qtopia-openmoko hybrid? Jul 07 18:16:22 lindi: How? Jul 07 18:16:22 Xaos: my guess is that the part that tries to talk to gsm hangs Jul 07 18:16:26 Xaos: by luck :) Jul 07 18:16:31 It's really a piece of crap, and that isn't subjective. :P Jul 07 18:16:32 lindi: LOL Jul 07 18:16:36 Xaos: i am recompiling with --enable-phonesim Jul 07 18:16:49 lindi, I am not so sure I would call that luck ;) Jul 07 18:17:39 ./configure --with-obedience Jul 07 18:17:42 :P Jul 07 18:17:50 make it do what you want! Jul 07 18:18:22 Dave: isn't qtopia the 'wave of the future' so to speak thouhg? Jul 07 18:18:36 Dave: Is someone getting ga ga over it? Jul 07 18:18:55 Dave: I thought everyone more or less hated it, except that it enables new UI toolkits Jul 07 18:20:13 Dave: it doesn't compile with --enable-phonesim Jul 07 18:20:38 Dave: it has include for qt3 but wants qmetatype.h that is only in qt4 afaik Jul 07 18:21:31 ASU is not qtopia Jul 07 18:21:56 Yeah Jul 07 18:22:15 but the unstable qtopia port on top of the unstable asu is not happy making Jul 07 18:22:41 wurp2: asu? Jul 07 18:23:38 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07python-helpers * r398fcd5000c4 10/mickeydbus/mdbus: add mdbus, a convenient dbus introspection and calling utility Jul 07 18:23:38 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07python-helpers * r6d57f66c9d4e 10/mickeydbus/ (TODO mdbus): mdbus version 0.9 Jul 07 18:23:39 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07python-helpers * rfa2cba50eea3 10/mickeydbus/mdbus: mdbus: add simple method calling (without parameters) Jul 07 18:24:03 lindi-, this explains it best: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ Jul 07 18:24:30 that link could really do with going in the topic :) Jul 07 18:25:18 Tig|: uh oh, any idea which of those i am running? Jul 07 18:25:54 it says "qtopia" when it starts Jul 07 18:26:21 grrr, why is it, that in this day and age, it takes 3 days to transfer money to a credit card? Jul 07 18:26:25 lindi-, the one shipping with the freerunners is gtk (2007.2) the ASU is qtopia based Jul 07 18:26:41 Tig|: aha, so i should figure out how to make my qemu use gtk Jul 07 18:28:08 lindi-, if you attempting to emulate what the phones are shipping with now then yes gtk, in August (hopefully) people will start moving to the ASU (August software update) which will use the qtopia apps by default but will still be able to run the gtk apps if you want to Jul 07 18:28:46 Tig|: i should modify openmoko/env to do that? Jul 07 18:28:49 in the long run the interface work and apps from the ASU will be carried over onto the FSO Jul 07 18:28:54 <_newbie3> Tig|: why not add the link to the topic then? Jul 07 18:29:47 _newbie3, because I am used to channels where the ops fiddle with the topic instead :) Jul 07 18:30:23 lindi-, no idea on that bit as I have not used the qemu stuff Jul 07 18:30:32 lindi-: April Software Update Jul 07 18:30:37 <_newbie3> chanserv won't do it. See it like a wiki ;). At least the ops didn't set the topic changes restricted flag... Jul 07 18:30:54 :) Jul 07 18:31:03 Tig|: I don't think they'll be carried into FSO Jul 07 18:31:14 I thought FSO was supposed to stay "pure" and low-level Jul 07 18:31:19 will sort it in a min just debugging my wireless Jul 07 18:31:34 I thought FSO was to be merged into ASU, or some future OM release Jul 07 18:31:35 wurp2, ah sorry the OM will become based on the FSO Jul 07 18:31:58 Tig|: np, just making sure that I hadn't missed an update Jul 07 18:32:55 <_newbie3> i think the FSO image is a test bed, but the FSO deamons should some time in the future go into the main image... Jul 07 18:33:15 nope just my crappy way of explaining it :) I used FSO because it will be what OM is based on :) and on that day there will be a lot less confusion and a lot of rejoicing :) Jul 07 18:33:38 Tig|: http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/uImage-2.6.24+git20080507-r0-om-gta02.bin? Jul 07 18:33:50 Tig|: is that the one on the shipped phone? Jul 07 18:34:07 well no as that is from scardycat's buildhost Jul 07 18:34:21 hang on will find the shipping images Jul 07 18:35:27 Tig|: thanks Jul 07 18:35:38 right you will not be able to run the exact shipping images on qemu as i understand it as it will only emulate the gta01 Jul 07 18:35:50 but the shipping images are these ones : http://buildhost.openmoko.org/releases/Freerunner/ Jul 07 18:36:25 Tig|: there are patches to support gta02 though? Jul 07 18:36:55 Tig|: where's the bootloader image? Jul 07 18:37:02 ah if so then it might: you will probably better with these though : http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/200807/20080706/ Jul 07 18:37:37 there are patches to get pseudo gta02 .... you can use the fr rootfs images, but you have to use a special kernel Jul 07 18:37:39 which are the gta01 daily builds, most people I know with freerunners have flashed to a later daily build anyway Jul 07 18:38:18 in qemu I doubt you would see much difference between a gta01 and 02 image, a couple of device names are different but that is about it Jul 07 18:38:18 C7`: ummen? Jul 07 18:38:21 Tig|: gta01? but how can freerunner users have them? Jul 07 18:38:40 lindi-, because there is another tree on the buildhost for freerunners Jul 07 18:39:40 the gta01 and gta02 images from the buildhost are as far as I can tell feature identical just with differing configs for the hardware Jul 07 18:39:57 so the differences are config only not functions Jul 07 18:40:00 how do i get mkfs.vfat onto my freerunner? Jul 07 18:40:02 Tig|: ok Jul 07 18:40:14 ecraven: vfat ? what for ? Jul 07 18:40:19 booting from sd Jul 07 18:40:26 the first partition needs to be vfat :( Jul 07 18:40:31 Oh Jul 07 18:40:39 i tried, but ext2 doesn't work Jul 07 18:40:46 ext3 ? Jul 07 18:40:47 in the dailyb snapshots, whats the difference between the openmoko-devel and openmoko-qtopia images? Jul 07 18:40:55 Ainulindale: nope Jul 07 18:40:56 nullpuppy: qtopia is asu Jul 07 18:41:04 ah ha, alright Jul 07 18:41:05 nullpuppy, devel is gtk Jul 07 18:41:37 Tig|: that daily dir has two rootfs images, "devel" and "qtopia-x11" -- which one would match what is being shipped most? Jul 07 18:41:41 ok, awesome. Jul 07 18:41:55 lindi-, devel :) Jul 07 18:41:56 lindi-: devel Jul 07 18:42:22 Ainulindale, I wish they had named those files differently :) Jul 07 18:42:49 Yep but I wish there wasn't three different images :-) Jul 07 18:42:53 It would be easier Jul 07 18:42:57 there is that too :( Jul 07 18:42:58 ok, now what is actually needed to flash the qemu image? do i just run flash.sh with a single image in images/openmoko? Jul 07 18:43:14 nullpuppy: there a env file in qemu/openmoko Jul 07 18:43:23 which has some variables to find the images Jul 07 18:43:33 s/there/there's/ Jul 07 18:43:34 hmm, alright Jul 07 18:43:36 Ainulindale, they ought to call the merged ASU and FSO image Highlander :) Jul 07 18:43:47 because eventually there will... Jul 07 18:43:55 Tig|: you mean SHR ? :-) Jul 07 18:43:59 is that in build/qemu or build/qemu/openmoko Jul 07 18:44:00 ? Jul 07 18:44:09 nullpuppy: build/qemu/openmoko/env Jul 07 18:44:21 ahh, i see now Jul 07 18:44:32 Tig|: any idea which kernel should i use? i see two options: uImage-2.6.24+git17+9af61cea8871d2303e06c5e71a121245d5fdc283-r0-om-gta01.bin uImage-om-gta01-latest.bin Jul 07 18:44:43 Ainulindale, oh don't go there :) Jul 07 18:44:50 lindi-, they are the same :) Jul 07 18:44:54 Tig|: I'm already there Jul 07 18:44:54 rright Jul 07 18:45:36 lindi-, they just have different names, the latest is so that automated scripts will always be able to find it and the other is names what is actually in it :) Jul 07 18:45:56 hmm, based on what i see in env... does it just flash with the newest in the dir, or will multiple files cause problems? Jul 07 18:46:10 multiple files will do Jul 07 18:46:21 Ainulindale, I think it is a damn good idea atm but I don't think we need more confusion on here atm :) Jul 07 18:46:30 alright Jul 07 18:47:11 Tig|: yep Jul 07 18:48:10 Ainulindale, again it is another stopgap though :) Jul 07 18:48:15 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r9fb44e6aac6b 10/packages/efl1/ (etk/initial_viewport.patch etk_cvs.bb): [efl] etk didn't initial scrolled_view correctly. Jul 07 18:48:21 but it would be very handy right now :) Jul 07 18:48:38 Tig|: stopgap ? Jul 07 18:49:02 I did try flashing the fso kernel on with the 2007.2 rootfs but alas it died on resume :( Jul 07 18:49:27 Ainulindale, well it is another fix until everything is unified agian Jul 07 18:49:44 There's a lot of work to do yep Jul 07 18:50:20 It is not posible to buy GSM900 via webshop? why? Jul 07 18:50:45 hmm.. do you get a shipping notification when the fr ships? Jul 07 18:51:00 kelvie_: from what i read in the community list, yes. Jul 07 18:51:03 ah Jul 07 18:51:13 m4r3k, I don't think they have arrived from the factory yet to the webshop Jul 07 18:51:14 will likely ship tomorrow from the sounds fo it. Jul 07 18:54:20 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07python-helpers * r5cf2a90d8660 10/mickeydbus/ (TODO mdbus): mdbus: method calling with arbitrary parameters seems to work now Jul 07 18:55:12 Ainulindale: OK, I'm in the ENV file, what would be a good thing to replace with what in order to get closer to what I'm going to have when my FR ships? Jul 07 18:55:44 Errr first you have to modify your local.conf in order to build the right image Jul 07 18:56:00 (MACHINE="om-gta02") Jul 07 18:56:20 Then you'll have to modify qemu parameters to run with the right machine (gta02fake) Jul 07 18:56:39 Then you'll have to modify the wildcards to point at the image you built Jul 07 18:56:49 this is going to be a dumb question, but how much setting up does the freerunner take out of the box in order to be able to make a call? Jul 07 18:56:54 But I think I'm not the right person to answer this kind of questions :-) Jul 07 18:57:28 kdubois, pretty much none, but it's not quite the embodiment of realibility Jul 07 18:57:29 kdubois, well you have to put a sim in it, and that is about it Jul 07 18:57:54 kdubois you will have a poor battery life too Jul 07 18:57:55 oh, thats cool. i'm not opposed to setting things up, its just nice to work out of the box :D Jul 07 18:57:56 Thanks Ainulindale...I'll see what I can do from there...I really want to start "playing" with my phone before it gets here ;-) seeing what apps are available, etc. Jul 07 18:58:31 Tig|: my last smartphone had about 10 minutes of call time, as long as its better than that, ill be happy :P Jul 07 18:58:59 it's better than that Jul 07 18:58:59 well it has that :) Jul 07 18:59:03 marginally ;) Jul 07 18:59:07 * doc|work runs Jul 07 18:59:07 I've been using a Nokia 770 for a while and it's pretty cool. Does anyone know if any "other" apps have been ported yet? Like gnumeric, maemo mapper (or similar), fbreader, etc.? Jul 07 18:59:17 6 hours iirc? it's just standby time that's not great Jul 07 18:59:24 actually I have been getting much better results recently Jul 07 18:59:32 Xaos: nope, not even close :/ Jul 07 18:59:44 doc|work: I figured... ;-) Jul 07 18:59:46 the FSO images are reporting 17 / 21 hours atm Jul 07 19:00:01 grrm still trying to use the wrong damn image... hmm Jul 07 19:00:03 as in a confirmed wake up after that long Jul 07 19:00:55 so it is getting better, I have also noticed the recent snapshots are getting better too, nothing massive just a bit better :) Jul 07 19:02:28 Xaos, TangoGPS is a gps thingy made with the Neos in mind Jul 07 19:02:40 Ainulindale: without modifying to the gta02, what would the recommendation be for the env file to get a working emulation and how would I "flash" the qemu? Jul 07 19:02:51 Tig|: you mean 17/21 of total battery time ? Jul 07 19:03:00 mgr: thanks...I'll take a look Jul 07 19:03:01 Xaos: you are trying to use qemu too? Jul 07 19:03:12 lindi: yep...same luck as you Jul 07 19:03:24 Xaos: the standard env file is good without switching to gta02 Jul 07 19:03:26 Xaos: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu#Using_MokoMakefile just calls flash.sh Jul 07 19:03:37 Ainulindale: with qemu? Jul 07 19:03:52 yep Jul 07 19:03:59 Ainulindale: i couldn't figure out how to run any applications Jul 07 19:04:09 hi everybody Jul 07 19:04:17 Ainulindale: what should i do with http://iki.fi/lindi/openmoko1.png? Jul 07 19:04:22 somebody knows mobileunix? Jul 07 19:04:41 lindi-: what would you do ? Jul 07 19:04:55 Ainulindale: i'd like to start any application, a game for example :) Jul 07 19:05:09 and the touchscreen doesn't work ? Jul 07 19:05:18 Ainulindale: the Q and start buttons don't seem to start anything although they change color to white when i push them Jul 07 19:05:44 lindi-: you used qtopia image ? Jul 07 19:05:55 Ainulindale: i used default openmoko/env Jul 07 19:06:08 Ainulindale: which seems to be qtopia i guess Jul 07 19:06:16 Nope Jul 07 19:06:24 I don't recognize this interface Jul 07 19:07:31 Ainulindale: does your env read rootfs_wildcard="Open?oko-openmoko-*image*-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2"? Jul 07 19:07:59 I modified it but it was that Jul 07 19:08:07 Ainulindale: with that default i got qtopia Jul 07 19:08:14 Nope Jul 07 19:08:21 You got qtopia because you did get qtopia Jul 07 19:08:27 hmm? ;) Jul 07 19:08:33 Ainulindale, lindi- that is the pure qtopia interface not the ASU which is qtopia ported to X with other bits Jul 07 19:08:44 There's a variable I think to get a specific image Jul 07 19:08:48 I can't remember which Jul 07 19:09:04 Ainulindale: something not in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu#Using_MokoMakefile? Jul 07 19:09:09 the only change I made was to edit the Makefile and change to: OM_GIT_BRANCH := org.openmoko.asu.dev Jul 07 19:09:25 lindi-: it's on your Makefile yes Jul 07 19:09:25 I get a similar interface to lindi Jul 07 19:09:35 grep OM_GIT_BRANCH Jul 07 19:09:40 rootfs_wildcard="Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080706-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2" Jul 07 19:09:46 seems to show me different interface Jul 07 19:09:48 For yours it seems to be org.openembedded.asu Jul 07 19:09:52 OM_GIT_BRANCH is at the top of the Makefile Jul 07 19:10:01 Just put dev Jul 07 19:10:06 And don't use ASU Jul 07 19:10:13 And if you use ASU I can't help you with that Jul 07 19:10:16 Never tried Jul 07 19:10:19 so, OM_GIT_BRANCH := org.openembedded.dev then Jul 07 19:10:23 Yep Jul 07 19:10:27 Ainulindale: find|grep Makefile$|xargs grep OM_GIT_BRAN Jul 07 19:10:29 I got a working image with that Jul 07 19:10:30 Ainulindale: prints nothing Jul 07 19:10:32 cool...then what afterwards? Jul 07 19:10:40 lindi-: ngnnnggg ? Jul 07 19:10:41 to re-compile/flash? Jul 07 19:10:46 woo, got gtk daily to run via gta01 Jul 07 19:10:50 Ainulindale: are we following the same howto? ;) Jul 07 19:10:54 I just told you to check your variable in the makefile Jul 07 19:11:18 lindi-: where your Makefile is, open it and check the variable Jul 07 19:11:26 And put org.openembedded.dev in it Jul 07 19:11:28 Ainulindale, that link about battery life on the FSO : http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/020339.html I knew I had the link somewhere :) Jul 07 19:11:44 should we then do a "make qemu" after changing that variable or is there a better command? Jul 07 19:11:48 Ainulindale: ON_GIT_BRANCH is not mentioned anywhere under https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973 Jul 07 19:12:10 OM even Jul 07 19:12:14 lindi...I found this last week when looking...change it to: OM_GIT_BRANCH := org.openembedded.dev Jul 07 19:12:27 vi Makefile Jul 07 19:12:30 Xaos: grep doesn't find it :) Jul 07 19:12:47 maybe you have some other svn module there completely? Jul 07 19:12:50 i only did svn checkout https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973 Jul 07 19:12:59 go down about 24 lines...it's in the Makefile Jul 07 19:13:01 You didn't use mokomakefile Jul 07 19:13:08 yep i didn't Jul 07 19:13:08 Check for mokomakefile on the wiki Jul 07 19:13:27 lindi: you on Ubuntu? if so, go here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Automatic_emulation_in_Ubuntu Jul 07 19:13:44 Xaos: no you don't have to make qemu Jul 07 19:13:44 what is a good future-proof choice for some small personal apps without phone-features like .xml visualisation...pygtk? Jul 07 19:13:53 wget the Makefile, then edit it with: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Automatic_emulation_in_Ubuntu Jul 07 19:13:56 You just have to make flash-qemu-local if you built your image Jul 07 19:14:05 or flash-qemu-official if you download the image Jul 07 19:14:19 cool ...thanks Ainulindale...I'll try that Jul 07 19:14:42 but hey I've got to go my girlfriend's bringing me some soup, good for ill people Jul 07 19:14:53 My head's going to explode Jul 07 19:15:02 and he even helps us out while he's on his deathbed...what a guy! Jul 07 19:15:12 Yep I'm a super hero :-) Jul 07 19:15:28 Xaos: debian but i'll try anyway Jul 07 19:15:49 lindi: should be close enough Jul 07 19:17:34 how do i boot from SD with freerunner? two partitions (fat16 with kernel, ext2 with root)? that's what the wiki suggests, but it doesn't work for me. i get kernel panics, unable to mount root fs on (179,2) Jul 07 19:17:49 Xaos: http://www.rwhitby.net/files/openmoko/Makefile is 504 :( Jul 07 19:17:55 Xaos: Connecting to www.rwhitby.net|66.159.209.53|:80... failed: No route to host. Jul 07 19:18:04 ecraven: try to get some Xanax for your kernel Jul 07 19:18:14 Ainulindale, where did you see that bearstech give a pouch and a headset? Jul 07 19:18:21 http://bearstech.com/shop Jul 07 19:18:26 says they don't... Jul 07 19:18:43 ecraven: try ext3 instead of ext2 for the rootfs. Jul 07 19:18:55 mmontour: tried, doesn't work Jul 07 19:19:03 lindi: ooh....sorry about that...I swear that's where I got mine...want me to try to send you my Makefile? Jul 07 19:19:04 Ainulindale, nvm just re read it :) Jul 07 19:19:17 Also add a "rootdelay=5" to your boot parameters if it's not already there. Jul 07 19:19:18 Ainulindale, im having trouble with french you know... ;) Jul 07 19:19:24 Xaos: well, it should be fixed to the wiki :) Jul 07 19:19:43 well, that's where I got it last Thursday...don't know where it is now Jul 07 19:19:44 mmontour: i'm not sure how to do that, i just hold the aux button and then select boot from SD Jul 07 19:20:23 Xaos: found alternative: http://svn.projects.openmoko.org/svnroot/mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile Jul 07 19:20:46 cool Jul 07 19:21:07 ecraven: You have to use cu or screen to get a console on your bootloader, instead of running dfu-util Jul 07 19:21:26 ecraven: A google search for site:wiki.openmoko.org rootdelay will probably get you instructions Jul 07 19:21:40 You would have to check/edit the u-boot environment variables. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader_commands may help, although not all of it will apply to the Freerunner Jul 07 19:21:43 i don't use dfu-util, i want to boot from SD, not re-flash Jul 07 19:22:42 ecraven: That's why I said instead of using dfu-util :-) Jul 07 19:22:56 ecraven: Do the stuff you would normally do for dfu-util, to get the usb console Jul 07 19:23:07 If you do the search I talked about it should give you complete instructions Jul 07 19:23:13 Or just follow mmontour's link :-) Jul 07 19:23:16 i'll look, thanks :) Jul 07 19:25:21 shouldn't this rootdelay be already in there? Jul 07 19:26:31 ecraven: it might be. I don't have a Freerunner yet. Jul 07 19:26:32 ecraven: Not necessarily, alpha sw :-( Jul 07 19:27:09 how do i check the current kernel parameters? Jul 07 19:27:11 It does look like the Freerunner u-boot is missing the workaround for bug #799 (or else you wouldn't need to have the kernel on its own FAT partition) Jul 07 19:27:37 /proc/cmdline should show it Jul 07 19:27:50 hm.. so i should actually update the u-boot as well? Jul 07 19:28:06 i just don't want to brick it so badly i can't boot any more ;-/ Jul 07 19:28:27 Ainulindale, lindi: I still get a non-responsive GUI after booting up in qemu. It's a different color scheme than the image that lindi posted, but performs the same Jul 07 19:28:33 It should be impossible to brick a Freerunner, but it's probably best to leave u-boot alone until you have more experience with the device Jul 07 19:28:56 TAsn: standard french vat on this kind of product is 19.6% Jul 07 19:28:57 Xaos: i got different UI when i changed to "devel" image in env Jul 07 19:29:05 Ainulindale, ouch! :( Jul 07 19:29:06 TAsn: in order to get it removed, I don't know Jul 07 19:29:09 lindi: what did you change in env? Jul 07 19:29:12 i c, thanks :) Jul 07 19:29:52 afk Jul 07 19:32:00 Xaos: /home/lindi/irclogs/2008/freenode/#openmoko.07-07.log:22:09 < lindi-> rootfs_wildcard="Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080706-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2" Jul 07 19:34:26 has anyone tried the newest uboot on a freerunner? Jul 07 19:35:25 so.. how do you close stuff in the gtk image? (in qemu) Jul 07 19:35:36 some apps have a menu with a close option, but most don't... Jul 07 19:36:07 nullpuppy: on home screen you have 3td tab on bottom Jul 07 19:36:14 here you can close apps Jul 07 19:39:21 Tig|: so, they will sell it? (GSM900 Free Runner version) Jul 07 19:39:39 Xaos: that 'make qemu' still starts qtopia here too Jul 07 19:40:50 lindi: here's what I've done (still waiting to see if it works)...1. modify env as you directed. 2. downloaded that jffs2 file 3. ran make flash-qemu-official 4. ran make run-qemu-snapshot Jul 07 19:40:57 waiting to see if it boots nicely... Jul 07 19:41:27 m4r3k, all the information I have seen says yes they will sell the GSM900 from the webshop when they have some units there :) GSM900 units have also been on sale through distributors but I don't know of any that have any in stock at the moment as I think they are all waiting for deliveries Jul 07 19:42:19 dos1: hmm, the middle button is what gives me all the apps.. Jul 07 19:42:20 hmm Jul 07 19:43:16 nullpuppy: middle button is menu, when you can RUN apps Jul 07 19:43:18 ah, there we are Jul 07 19:43:25 its the far right button Jul 07 19:43:25 Xaos: aha Jul 07 19:43:30 dos1: right.. Jul 07 19:43:33 nullpuppy: in right button you have RUNNING aps Jul 07 19:43:35 oh Jul 07 19:43:37 and you can close :) Jul 07 19:43:40 whoops. i misread what you said ;) Jul 07 19:44:03 Tig|: oh, thanks for you information, i am not desperate anymore :-) Jul 07 19:44:15 lindi: SUCCESS!!! Jul 07 19:44:25 lindi: did you get it? Jul 07 19:45:58 if i flash the uboot, can i seriously break things? so that i can't repair them without a debug board? Jul 07 19:46:25 Xaos: where did you find suggestion to run flash-qemu-official? Jul 07 19:46:48 Ainulindale told me up above somewhere Jul 07 19:46:49 ecraven: flashing uboot is safe on the gta02; it is not safe on the gta01 Jul 07 19:46:55 mwester: freerunner here Jul 07 19:47:02 aka gta02 Jul 07 19:47:03 mwester: how's it safer? Jul 07 19:47:11 so i could use gta02v5-latest.bin in the hope that then booting from SD works out of the box? Jul 07 19:47:21 is there a "good" uboot stored in ro flash or something? Jul 07 19:47:35 Xaos: rright Jul 07 19:47:36 The gta02 has an alternate boot flash memory that can be used to boot if the primary uboot is damaged. Jul 07 19:47:48 Xaos: can you add everything you did to somewhere in the wiki? ;) Jul 07 19:47:51 neat Jul 07 19:48:10 do I need a login to edit the wiki...I'll try to set one up...which page do you recommend I edit? Jul 07 19:50:33 Xaos: i think Jul 07 19:51:27 lindi: I'll try to update http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Automatic_emulation_in_Ubuntu with what I did since that is where I got my original info from Jul 07 19:52:55 Xaos: do you see http://iki.fi/lindi/openmoko2.png? Jul 07 19:54:10 hm.. if i select set console to usb from the boot menu, i should be able to connect to /dev/ttyACM0 with neocon, right? my freerunner just returns to the boot menu after about 2 seconds ;( Jul 07 19:54:33 Tig|: would you mind to post your blog entry concerning wlan again? Jul 07 19:54:58 or can anybody else verify if http://iki.fi/lindi/openmoko2.png is what is being shipped right now? Jul 07 19:55:13 my FR's eth0 claims to have a wlan link quality of 165/94, this cant be true, can it? Jul 07 19:56:54 ello bumbl : http://da.mned.co.uk/2008/06/29/openmoko-freerunner-wpa-wifi-howto/ Jul 07 19:56:55 Tanuva: no, there still is a bug.. Jul 07 19:57:18 thank you Jul 07 19:57:23 edistar: so it might not be my fault that I cant get wlan to work correctly? Jul 07 19:57:26 bumbl, mind you I think I hit the same bug as you earlier :) so I am still looking into it :) Jul 07 19:57:29 or is it just this calculation? Jul 07 19:57:52 Tanuva: well, wifi does work, only the signal strength is not reliable Jul 07 19:57:53 oh sorry for that; I am trying it again from the beginning Jul 07 19:58:08 Tanuva: I got it to work.. Jul 07 19:58:10 lindi-, that looks like it but no blue, it is more of a gold colour Jul 07 19:58:24 Tig|: oh well Jul 07 19:58:41 edistar: strange. it says its correctly associated with the net, but I cant get any ping over Jul 07 19:58:42 lindi: yes, that's what I see...but without the blue color. ;-) Jul 07 19:58:55 Tanuva: what does udhcpc tell you? Jul 07 19:59:05 nothing, I have static ips here Jul 07 19:59:11 Tanuva: oh, ok Jul 07 19:59:31 Tanuva: mine only worked when I ifdown'ed usb0.. Jul 07 19:59:47 The GSM 900 says sold out on the openmoko store, is it already sold out, or is it just not available yet? Jul 07 20:00:11 <_ferric> not avail yet Jul 07 20:00:27 ok, that's what i though:) Any updates on when it will be? Jul 07 20:00:32 edistar: but that should be a routing issue I think... I removed the default route over usb0 so it had to use eth0. and I told ping to use eth0... Jul 07 20:00:49 Tanuva: should work then.. Jul 07 20:00:52 Tanuva: which image? Jul 07 20:01:01 Xaos: what has changed the color? ;) Jul 07 20:01:25 edistar: asu and gtk from 20080706 Jul 07 20:01:39 is yours orange when running? Jul 07 20:02:01 if so, then it's probably the screencap program you are using that is changing the palette. Jul 07 20:03:22 bumbl, right mine is working perfectly again, it did take two ifup ifdown sequences to get an ip Jul 07 20:03:46 Xaos: my device is still on its way Jul 07 20:04:08 what I have done (feck knows if this will help) is put a symlink to /etc/sysconfig/wpa_supplicant in /etc/defaults just in case Jul 07 20:04:12 lindi: mine too...although I haven't gotten the ship notice yet Jul 07 20:04:27 lindi: what was the location for the MokoMakefile that you found? Jul 07 20:05:11 Xaos: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Mokomakefile Jul 07 20:05:14 Xaos: links to alternatives Jul 07 20:05:56 how do i correctly call setenv menu_1 ...? Jul 07 20:06:20 ecraven: while you're in uboot access it with cu Jul 07 20:06:37 Or screen Jul 07 20:07:03 i am in uboot, i want to add rootdelay=5 to the kernel param list Jul 07 20:07:15 if i saveenv, the changes will stay when i reboot the neo? Jul 07 20:07:29 ecraven: yes Jul 07 20:08:12 can I somehow prevent asu from dropping its sqlite-db on the sdcard? Jul 07 20:08:48 hm.. seems rootdelay is already in there, and it still doesn't boot from my SD :( Jul 07 20:09:13 anything obviously wrong with this? menu_1=Boot from microSD (FAT+ext2): setenv bootargs ${bootargs_base} rootfstype=ext2 root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rootdelay=5 ${mtdparts} ro; mmcinit; fatload mmc 1 0x32000000 ${sd_image_name}; bootm 0x32000000 Jul 07 20:09:54 Tig|: /etc/defaults doesn't exist here; just /etc/default/ Jul 07 20:13:26 Tig|: at the moment wlan works Jul 07 20:13:34 incl. dns Jul 07 20:13:39 * bumbl is happy Jul 07 20:14:01 yo Jul 07 20:14:57 Xaos: any idea how to hide virtual keyboard in terminal but still be able to use external keyboard Jul 07 20:16:06 bumbl, oops I typoed :) I made a symlink in /etc/default/ even :) it is working??!!! \o/ Jul 07 20:16:28 yes Jul 07 20:16:40 yipeeee! Jul 07 20:16:57 ping www.google.com 0% packet loss; I am trying opkg update at the moment Jul 07 20:17:30 lindi: no...no idea as of yet. Jul 07 20:18:01 ALL: I updated the wiki: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Automatic_emulation_in_Ubuntu to include how to get a WORKING image into qemu...update at the bottom Jul 07 20:18:04 Xaos: ok Jul 07 20:18:20 Xaos: :) Jul 07 20:18:23 please check my update to the wiki and make sure it makes sense Jul 07 20:18:35 mickey|sofa: did you use something to generate http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:OpenmokoFramework08.png or did you just use gimpp? Jul 07 20:19:32 Ainulindale, wurp2 etc: Sorry I've been away a day; I'll be back in touch in a few hours (-: Jul 07 20:20:11 No problem, but you know that you'll be whipped Jul 07 20:20:31 paulproteus: #openmoko-cdevel Jul 07 20:21:06 Tig|: I can't use of opkg because I can't reach the buildhosts IP (78.47.190.211) and url with my freerunner; my pc which is assoziated with the same router has no problem at all; I can ping other adresses though e.g. www.gentoo.org Jul 07 20:22:42 bumbl, I am beginning to suspect a bug in the dns resolver now or how it has been implimented :( Jul 07 20:23:03 bumbl, just a thought, chuck it into /etc/hosts and see if it can hit it Jul 07 20:23:20 yes there is a bug in the dns resolver but Jul 07 20:23:26 * Tanuva has a date with his bed Jul 07 20:23:40 I can't reach neither the ip nor the url Jul 07 20:23:55 gn8t Tanuva Jul 07 20:23:55 ah good point sorry Jul 07 20:24:05 nn Tanuva Jul 07 20:25:23 Tig|: should we file a bug report or something like that? Jul 07 20:26:39 bumbl, Yes but I would still like to try and nail it down a bit more than we have atm :) Not sure how helpful it would be at this point :( Jul 07 20:27:09 if you can't ping the ip then it is not the dns resolver or is not in this case Jul 07 20:27:22 I suspect there are two bugs here confusing the issue Jul 07 20:27:31 no maybe it's a bug in the mac*** wlan kernel stack Jul 07 20:27:46 bumbl, could be Jul 07 20:29:13 biab need to cook some food :) Jul 07 20:30:06 enjoy your meal Jul 07 20:44:19 kdean06, See /topic (-: Jul 07 21:01:03 is there a wiki page which documents the filesystem of openmoko (where what settings are located, where to find background, ringtone,...) Jul 07 21:01:47 bumbl: No :-( Jul 07 21:02:09 bumbl: A lot of that will be different for different releases, but not all Jul 07 21:04:17 Hi @all! does anyone use the campwifi program in the asu- image? it doesn't work for me....i don't see any wireless network etc. Jul 07 21:04:36 so I have to find it out the hard way Jul 07 21:05:05 bumbl: Some of it will be scattered around on the wiki, but mostly, yes Jul 07 21:05:23 Of course, there's nothing preventing you from creating a page to start organizing that stuff Jul 07 21:05:54 wurp2: i'll do that Jul 07 21:06:13 cruxis: afaik that thing is under development at the moment Jul 07 21:07:17 bumbl: mmh, yes i thought something like this. So i've to manually configure the wireless network using woa_supplicant, is it correct? Jul 07 21:17:11 hi. i don't get it. i activated wifi on my new freerunner, but opgk update fails because it can't download the signature files. Jul 07 21:18:14 does ping www.google.com work? Jul 07 21:18:48 yes, it downloads the package.gz as well Jul 07 21:18:59 it just 404's on the signatures Jul 07 21:19:08 I vaguely recall that the site has problems and is being fixed Jul 07 21:19:33 ok, because http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/all/Packages.sig is not there, so there is nothing to download Jul 07 21:27:55 I didn't think opkg update failed when it couldn't get the sigs... Jul 07 21:28:00 Are you sure that's not just a warning? Jul 07 21:28:34 cruxis: yes you have to; i hope you have more success than I Jul 07 21:28:54 oh, didn't even check :D Jul 07 21:29:01 hehe Jul 07 21:29:05 the upgrade works Jul 07 21:29:10 stupid me Jul 07 21:29:38 bumbl: it's working fine for me ;-) ok....the next thing is, that i'll try to compile gnome "network-manager" ...maybe this could work ;-) Jul 07 21:29:43 excellent Jul 07 21:29:49 not back yet but just popped back for a sec. I recall on a mailing list / here that you can safely ignore the .sog errors as they are just warnings Jul 07 21:31:11 Just got a fix on the GPS with my FR :) Jul 07 21:31:28 Thanks to Al Johnson on the mailing list. Jul 07 21:31:47 cruxis: I don't think it will but anyway my experience showed me (except on the freerunner) that network-manager is crap; wpa_supplicant works by far better Jul 07 21:32:03 bumbl: did you get WPA/WEP encryption working with wpa_supplicant? Jul 07 21:32:10 no Jul 07 21:32:21 bumbl, it has died again? Jul 07 21:32:25 yes Jul 07 21:32:29 arse Jul 07 21:32:51 bumbl: ...i try ;-) i don't have any bad experience with the network manager...anyway Jul 07 21:33:02 for those who speak german I have summarized my tries here http://freeyourphone.de/portal_v1/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=247 Jul 07 21:33:38 bumbl: sag doch das wir aus dem selben land kommen ;-) Jul 07 21:33:45 ^^ Jul 07 21:33:47 alle ;p Jul 07 21:33:57 I am sodding off to Ireland tomorrow so don't have time to test this but I think the next step is to retest on a wep / open network to see if the same issues persist Jul 07 21:34:01 Anyone here have any experience with tangogps? Jul 07 21:34:05 arse battery fail Jul 07 21:34:07 cruxis: ich komm aber aus oesterreich Jul 07 21:34:46 bumbl: niemand ist perfekt ;-) *scherz* back to english my friend ;-) Jul 07 21:35:00 I dont have a SIM card in my FR atm, and i need to download the maps for my country/region to the memory card so i dont need a net :) Jul 07 21:35:06 net access* Jul 07 21:35:22 Tig|: where in Ireland? Jul 07 21:35:30 * doc|work is Irish (but in Canada) Jul 07 21:35:41 btw, i had quite some problems with wpa as well, but i guess that's more of a problem with my router Jul 07 21:35:51 my laptop acts up as well if i use it Jul 07 21:36:02 doc|work, belfast back in a sec this laptop is out of juice Jul 07 21:37:00 Fossi: that is the strange thing: my laptop and my pc have near to identical/ identical settings as the freerunner has but only the freerunner fails to stay online Jul 07 21:37:16 yeah, glimpsed over your report Jul 07 21:37:20 looks strange Jul 07 21:43:44 is there a (n easy) way to kill that annoying touchpad sound Jul 07 21:44:39 Fossi: someone asked that, replacing the sound file with an empty wav file was the suggested solution (or edit the code to add an option) Jul 07 21:45:51 i love that sound btw :) Jul 07 21:46:37 Hmmm Jul 07 21:46:40 My FR is slooow Jul 07 21:46:49 and load average is: 6.73, 6.02, 5.34 Jul 07 21:46:53 slow? be happy it's workign! :) Jul 07 21:46:55 Havent rebooted it in a while :/ Jul 07 21:46:56 wow Jul 07 21:46:59 that's not right Jul 07 21:47:09 events/0 is using 33.3% cpu Jul 07 21:47:15 tango gps 12.8 Jul 07 21:47:22 avahi-daemon 10, neod 10.8 Jul 07 21:47:36 according to top, under the %CPU column Jul 07 21:47:50 the phone is actually a bit warm :o Jul 07 21:48:13 (not warm, but i can feel it's a tad warmer than room temp) Jul 07 21:48:41 So what should i do? Jul 07 21:48:52 Im not that much of a linux exper Jul 07 21:48:53 t Jul 07 21:48:56 halt# Jul 07 21:49:06 restart it? Jul 07 21:49:12 yes Jul 07 21:49:21 kk Jul 07 21:49:39 that actually seemed to do nada Jul 07 21:49:46 it just sits there in tangogps o_0 Jul 07 21:49:54 wait nvm, here we go Jul 07 21:49:58 hm, what's events/0? it's completely idle here, barely has any cumulative cpu time Jul 07 21:50:01 even under linux a reboot may help Jul 07 21:50:12 events/0 are the accelerometres Jul 07 21:50:15 I saw the FSO boot image now o_0 Jul 07 21:50:35 Ah, I've never tried them, might explain it Jul 07 21:50:55 ive tried them once Jul 07 21:51:48 I can't remember who, but someone had a sample program/python script called gta02.py, where you could turn the leds on and off, see wlans in the area and see accelerometer info Jul 07 21:52:16 that script crashed when I tried running it Jul 07 21:52:41 Ran fine here, but maybe it hangs dormant, eating resources? :/ Jul 07 21:53:37 argh crap Jul 07 21:53:51 I had just booted the phone, and i had the power menu up to enable gps Jul 07 21:53:52 Hm, what I can do is run python gta02.py then wait for a while then press ctrl+c then it shows the panes for leds and wireless but accelerometer stuff is blank Jul 07 21:54:04 then i manged to press it again and i was gonna dismiss it, and managed to shutdown the phone -_- Jul 07 21:54:11 bobkare: weird Jul 07 21:55:06 I really hope it doesn't mean my accelerometers are somehow not working :/ Jul 07 21:56:55 hmm, under a 28 day DOA warranty, we get kinda screwed if the software doesn't work and we don't know therefore that hardware's not working :/ Jul 07 21:57:47 bobkare: check with hexdump Jul 07 21:58:07 edistar: on what? Jul 07 21:58:26 I see the gta02.py script opens /dev/input/event3, there's nothing there if I cat it Jul 07 21:58:48 why are the headset jack a non standard one ? Jul 07 21:58:51 shake the phone :) Jul 07 21:59:22 no change Jul 07 22:00:01 bobkare: on the accels Jul 07 22:00:33 hmmmm Jul 07 22:00:53 edistar: could you at least point me towards some documentation that explains where the device files are? Jul 07 22:00:57 running only tangogps, i have 2.60, 2.86, 1.51 avg. load Jul 07 22:00:59 bobkare: hexdump /dev/input/event2 Jul 07 22:01:01 bobkare: hexdump /dev/input/event3 Jul 07 22:01:03 bobkare: hexdump /dev/input/event1 Jul 07 22:01:09 right, thanks Jul 07 22:01:14 should work Jul 07 22:01:37 I thought it was only event3? Jul 07 22:01:45 Ah, seems to be event2 here Jul 07 22:01:47 flexd_: no, there should be 3 accels Jul 07 22:01:59 edistar: only event3 is spamming jibberish Jul 07 22:02:02 the other's spam nothing Jul 07 22:02:29 and here I have /dev/input/touchscreen0 pointing at event1 Jul 07 22:02:36 flexd_: jibberish os ok Jul 07 22:02:38 is ok Jul 07 22:02:49 edistar: yea i know, but only event3 is spamming it Jul 07 22:02:57 Which makes me believe all accels are event3? Jul 07 22:02:59 Has anyone received confirmation that an order placed on the OM online store has shipped? Jul 07 22:03:01 Just gotta parse it? Jul 07 22:03:07 sry, event1 isn't accel Jul 07 22:03:10 there are only two.. Jul 07 22:03:33 flexd_: yeah, there is a kernel issue preventing event2 from 'spamming jibberish' Jul 07 22:03:57 edistar: alrighty, havent tried using them yet anyway Jul 07 22:04:22 flexd_: just parse that and you should be fine :) or wait for an FSO daemon ;) Jul 07 22:04:39 uhm, i dont have a build enviroment setup atm Jul 07 22:04:45 could someone build http://svn.projects.openmoko.org/svnroot/openmoko-agpsui/ for me? Jul 07 22:04:48 for a freerunner :) Jul 07 22:05:07 flexd_: I just installed that with opkg Jul 07 22:07:32 edistar: Hm, ok. seems it's reveresed for me, spitting data on event2 but not 3 Jul 07 22:07:36 why is there no clock on the freerunner's home screen? Jul 07 22:07:40 *reversed Jul 07 22:07:47 is there anything you can do with it? Jul 07 22:07:54 Fossi: there is on the newest devel image Jul 07 22:08:03 Fossi: later images have it Jul 07 22:08:08 ok Jul 07 22:08:14 kinda makes no sense as is :) Jul 07 22:08:20 bobkare: apparently that changes every boot Jul 07 22:10:01 OK. at least I got it to work so I know at least one accelerometer is working Jul 07 22:10:33 someone should make a DOA check script :) Jul 07 22:10:49 one that checks accelerometers, gps, wifi, bt and stuff :) Jul 07 22:11:03 this gta02.py thing isn't far off. does leds wifi and accels Jul 07 22:11:36 so, the latest images are more than what you get through opkg update? Jul 07 22:11:40 gps is a chore to test as you need to stand outside freezing for 20 minutes or so Jul 07 22:11:54 Fossi: yes Jul 07 22:12:01 what's the current status of agps? Jul 07 22:12:38 bobkare: did not take 20 mins here for a fix, point it up and make sure you can see a good chunk of sky Jul 07 22:12:41 doc|work: Take a look at the community ML thread "GPS", seems somebody there has some scripts Jul 07 22:13:07 Tig|: I've done that. Repeatedly. Takes me at least 15 minutes Jul 07 22:13:47 bobkare: cool thanks Jul 07 22:14:22 bobkare: then I think there is a software issue somewhere :( Jul 07 22:16:22 Tig|: the ML thread I just referenced have loads of debug info. basically it needs a complete download of almanac + ephermis every time you restart the gps chip, which takes minimum 12 minutes Jul 07 22:16:52 or 14 or something Jul 07 22:16:59 ouch Jul 07 22:17:22 except some people apparently somehow get very good signals or something and it just works Jul 07 22:17:40 couldn't that be stored to the disk or does it have to be refreshed? Jul 07 22:17:47 how the hell did I get a fix in a few mins then? /me is baffled as I installed gpsd and stuff and it just worked Jul 07 22:17:54 I think those people are using pre-production GPA02s Jul 07 22:18:06 Tig|: With AGPS I know it can fix earlier with a connection Jul 07 22:18:14 I had turned gps on in the past Jul 07 22:18:27 but this was after a flash Jul 07 22:18:30 Tig|: I'm not sure if AGPS can get a fix earlier w/o a connection, based on cached data or something Jul 07 22:19:07 will do some testing Jul 07 22:19:38 seems much of the problem is that the gps chip should have had a little bit of memory - 4kB or something, to store the almanac. then it just needs to get ephermis data which is sent every 30 seconds Jul 07 22:20:17 er, in-bult flash? Jul 07 22:20:19 but tomorrow as it is raining and dark outside and i would rather sit inside with a beer :) Jul 07 22:20:22 why can't that be used? Jul 07 22:20:29 Tig|: wuss :) Jul 07 22:20:33 doc|work: ask u-blox Jul 07 22:21:08 doc|work: aye :) have to be on a 7am flight too so can't stay up too late :( Jul 07 22:21:12 it's quite ridiculous to have a gps taking >12 min for a fix Jul 07 22:21:15 Tig|: :) Jul 07 22:21:31 I waited for 2h outside with nothing but fields around me and didn't get a fix.. Jul 07 22:22:00 edistar: was the device lying flat? Jul 07 22:22:26 Tig|: no, upright in my trousers Jul 07 22:22:27 but it seems the agps features of the chip can be used to give the gps a good idea of where it is, so if something is cooked up that gives it a reasonable idea of where it is that can be fed to the gps and it should get a fix much faster Jul 07 22:23:16 edistar: hmm, tin foil trousers? Jul 07 22:23:30 Tig|: :D Jul 07 22:23:30 :) Jul 07 22:23:42 woah Jul 07 22:23:45 context++ Jul 07 22:25:37 just a quick q, the default images and packages don't have any AGPS support built in do they as I might have been connected to the wifi at the same time Jul 07 22:26:00 Tig|: afaik not Jul 07 22:26:15 Tig|: Hmmm, did you use the agps-test-whatever-it's-named-software? Jul 07 22:26:27 wouldn't surprise me if that had some magick... Jul 07 22:27:44 edistar: then the only explanation was that I had activated the gps earlier and it had got it's fix etc and then it was only later that it was when I installed gpsd that i noticed output Jul 07 22:28:46 even so 12mins for a fix? that is not right Jul 07 22:28:59 seems some people don't have as many issues with this, especially it seems to work fast if you have an external antenna Jul 07 22:29:23 so it's some kind of mix between antenna problem and lack of almanac storage and no agps-support Jul 07 22:29:36 Tig|: I know I get fixes in << 12 minutes on my neo1973 when I just started the hardware Jul 07 22:30:07 Tig|: But if you're getting a fix in < 4 seconds, it's got to be because the gps already had a fix, and you're just now getting a position update Jul 07 22:30:08 wurp2: is it the same chipset in the freerunner? Jul 07 22:30:16 From what I read on the ML this is freerunner-specific, doesn't happen on 1973 Jul 07 22:30:22 it's a completely different gps chip Jul 07 22:30:24 Tig|: nope Jul 07 22:30:26 oh it was not 4 secs it was a min or so Jul 07 22:30:35 That sounds like a real fix Jul 07 22:31:04 sounds like fix when the gps has almanac data already Jul 07 22:31:09 bobkare: The once-every-12 minutes for the full satellite info is based on the satellites as far as I know Jul 07 22:33:41 wurp2: yes, I think that's almanac data that's transmitted in a 12-minute cycle Jul 07 22:34:23 Ohwell, I'm going to bed, have to get up early. hoping to get a fix in a reasonable amount of time tomorrow morning as I got one now and will leave the gps powered overnight Jul 07 22:35:08 bobkare: If you have a fix now and you leave it powered, I think you'll just maintain a fix... Jul 07 22:35:17 Depending on how indoors your neo is Jul 07 22:35:30 i.e. I keep one just fine in my house, but not at work Jul 07 22:37:16 no, it has no satellite coverage here Jul 07 22:37:45 I'm just hoping that having almanac data will let me get a fix in a reasonable time in the morning Jul 07 22:38:52 I have checked that it works in a faster timespan, I took it indoors and let it maintain power, but I packed it in aluminum foil just to make sure it lost all signal. got a fix in a minute or so after going outside afterwards Jul 07 22:40:54 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * r092ef7d99639 10/otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.PDP.xml.in: otapi: add documentation for org.freesmartphone.GSM.PDP Jul 07 22:41:45 bobkare: excellent Jul 07 22:42:41 will be interesting to see if it helps me get a fix tomorrow morning. it should, the almanac data should be valid for that long iirc Jul 07 22:44:08 afaik yeah Jul 07 22:44:16 iirc, even Jul 07 22:44:41 hopefully the "a" will enable faster fixes... Jul 07 22:45:37 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * rd4c403a17bdd 10/otapi/xhtml/ (2 files): otapi: update html documentation Jul 07 22:50:48 So are we getting tracking numbers for us shipments when they leave warehouse? Jul 07 22:52:49 Has anyone received confirmation that an order placed on the OM online store has shipped? Jul 07 22:53:05 SirBob1701: as far as I know people are awaiting UPS mails when things start shipping Jul 07 22:53:36 rtm : people on here were expecting shipping tomorrow Jul 07 22:54:09 Tig: So the belief is that no orders will actually ship today? Jul 07 22:54:21 but there has been no official announcement Jul 07 22:54:32 rtm: someone on list said orders around #1500 will ship tomorrow. Jul 07 22:54:36 Tig|: thanks sorry about being a pain Jul 07 22:54:40 if yours is significantly < 1500, perhaps it's shipping today. Jul 07 22:55:01 SirBob1701: I know what you are going through :) Jul 07 22:56:26 I'm 1367, but I've not heard that anyone has received notice of shipment. Jul 07 22:58:09 cjb: i'm 1124 ordered at like 8 in the morning east coast lol Jul 07 22:59:20 SirBob: I'd have been in at 5:30 EDT, if my lousy credit card comapany had not blocked the transaction. I had a cron job watching fo the store to open. Jul 07 22:59:47 * Tig| is evil and strokes his freerunner :) Jul 07 23:00:05 We will hunt you down. Jul 07 23:00:11 heh :) Jul 07 23:00:24 mine was weird my credit card company let the transaction pass and then called me later for clearance. I got confirmation from openmoko before it ever finished processing Jul 07 23:00:28 I have a head start :) my gps works :) Jul 07 23:01:47 cool, so, eh, what are the coordinates? Jul 07 23:02:08 I wonder if it's possible to tell tangogps where you're going from/to and have it download the most detailed map tiles for the path Jul 07 23:02:18 13N37W :P Jul 07 23:02:23 cjb: it can be, if you make it so! :) Jul 07 23:02:32 Tig|: excellent, cruise missile on the way! Jul 07 23:02:33 cjb: i was wondering the same thing. was thinking of looking at code Jul 07 23:02:35 cjb: You can do that now. Jul 07 23:02:39 cjb, hmm, that would be useful even without actual tracking Jul 07 23:02:48 cjb: would be an ace feature Jul 07 23:02:53 /routing, that is Jul 07 23:03:05 mjr: Routing on tangogps? Jul 07 23:03:15 wurp2, "without" Jul 07 23:03:20 as in how it is Jul 07 23:03:28 mjr: tangogps does not support routing and is more of a moving map Jul 07 23:03:29 mjr: Ah Jul 07 23:03:37 Tig|, _I know_ Jul 07 23:03:52 what kinda file size are the tiles for tango? Jul 07 23:04:02 prefixing your sentence w/ / is not a very clear way of saying without ;-) Jul 07 23:04:24 correction to the end of my last sentence Jul 07 23:04:24 also if using osm for routing there are lots of info missing for routing, speedlimits, one way systems etc Jul 07 23:04:42 Tig|: depends on where you are Jul 07 23:04:43 ah Jul 07 23:04:51 I know that also (though I would like the feature regardless) Jul 07 23:04:55 apologies for preaching to the choir here :( Jul 07 23:05:04 have a look at rana btw Jul 07 23:05:21 or navit Jul 07 23:05:25 (I'm also not a carowner, so the limitations of osm data are less of an issue for me Jul 07 23:05:36 although if rana will run at reasonable speeds on my 01 I'm very interested :-) Jul 07 23:05:36 not really streamlined for the freerunner yet, but it's getting there Jul 07 23:06:10 wurp2: then forget pyrender (at least for now) it's really slow on freerunner... Jul 07 23:06:28 people seem to easily forget that light traffic wants routing too and is not so picky about one-way streets and speed limits Jul 07 23:06:41 wurp2: you can switch to mapnik or osmarender and just download tiles though Jul 07 23:07:07 bobkare: Well, I like the vector maps Jul 07 23:07:45 *shrug* be prepared to wait for rendering then. at least it caches heavily Jul 07 23:08:20 bah, but i really need to go to sleep. /me disconnects from screen session Jul 07 23:08:22 downloading tiles is fine if it'll still allow routing on them just the same, which one would presume? Jul 07 23:09:04 afaik tango is currently limited to plotting current location on bitmap tiles Jul 07 23:09:16 Tig|, yes, not talking about tango anymore Jul 07 23:09:30 mjr oops sorry :/ Jul 07 23:10:14 Rana can route, within the OSM limitations Jul 07 23:11:56 and apparently it should be less insanely slow than pyroute Jul 07 23:12:36 (given map tiles from the network and not rendered, at least, as discussed above) Jul 07 23:13:04 bah...the payment gateway service has really poor error reporting Jul 07 23:13:30 I don't speak taiwanese either Jul 07 23:13:41 ±z¿é¤J«H¥Î¥dªº®É¶¡¹Lªø, ½Ð¦^­ì°Ó©±ºô¯¸­«·s¥æ©ö¡C Jul 07 23:13:44 fun Jul 07 23:13:46 Timeout, please go back to Merchant web site and create a new order. Jul 07 23:13:59 Tig|, anyway yeah sorry, being a bit snappy Jul 07 23:14:04 * mjr -> sleep Jul 07 23:14:13 mjr nn Jul 07 23:14:23 * chillywilly wonders if his excitement is premature Jul 07 23:14:56 * chillywilly tries the CA distributor instead Jul 07 23:16:29 or not...just links back to fic.com.tw Jul 07 23:21:44 nn all Jul 07 23:21:50 battery dead Jul 07 23:25:42 hello Jul 07 23:30:31 hello,it seems that gta01's kernel support ps2 keyboard...but how do i enable it? i need a keyboard in qemu because setting the network without a keboard is pain.... Jul 07 23:31:06 and i can't install others software keyboards because i don't have the network Jul 07 23:32:00 o hai. Jul 07 23:34:07 by the way i think i'll need the support for usb keyboard when i'll get the freerunner...(simplier to have an usb keyboard with luks setup) Jul 07 23:39:32 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * r7809c75db0c2 10/otapi/ (9 files in 2 dirs): otapi: add org.freesmartphone.GSM.PDP.GetCurrentGprsClass() -> s Jul 07 23:40:01 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r84be9f5c04ed 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/ti_calypso/channel.py: ophoned: [TI CALYPSO] use more detailed GPRS event reporting Jul 07 23:40:01 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rbd93489d2d89 10/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Jul 07 23:40:01 freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: implement remaining bits of org.freesmartphone.GSM.PDP: Jul 07 23:40:02 freesmartphone.org: * ListAvailableGprsClasses() -> as Jul 07 23:40:04 freesmartphone.org: * GetCurrentGprsClass() -> s Jul 07 23:40:06 freesmartphone.org: * SetCurrentGprsClass(s) Jul 07 23:44:38 anyone? Jul 07 23:47:00 Gnutoo: I got bt kb Jul 07 23:47:15 kinneh, under qemu? Jul 07 23:47:29 na on a neo Jul 07 23:47:46 kinneh, how do i enable the keyboard on qemu? Jul 07 23:48:12 kinneh, i tried usb and ps2 keyboard without success...but mabe my kernel doesn't have usbhost support Jul 07 23:48:57 * Gnutoo is running low on battery Jul 07 23:49:05 I only used my physical neo Jul 07 23:49:24 kinneh, ok thanks...the problem is that i don't have the freerunner yet Jul 07 23:49:37 ok Jul 07 23:49:58 because if i had it there was a simple solution: wifi+ssh Jul 07 23:50:24 hehe Jul 07 23:58:44 How are you gentlemen? Jul 08 00:00:19 Sleepy Jul 08 00:02:10 Dave! Jul 08 00:31:54 skerja? Jul 08 00:31:58 skjera? Jul 08 00:32:01 What's up, ferric? Jul 08 00:41:15 Hmm, Freerunner's slowin' Jul 08 00:47:50 Dave: damn! if I see you later in 5h again here, posting, I have to assume you're either a speedfreak or a robot ;-) Jul 08 00:49:27 bah... Jul 08 00:50:36 if only Dave had enough RAM to comprehend what you're on about jOERG_rw Jul 08 00:50:47 Muwahaha >:) Jul 08 00:50:49 Affirmative. Jul 08 00:50:58 lol Jul 08 00:51:01 alphabeat, touche ;) Jul 08 00:52:18 heh ;) it's from Arrested Development anyway. Not my own work. Jul 08 00:52:18 hahah, yes, I'm finding many evil Freerunner holes and vulnerabilities :p Jul 08 00:53:04 :-):-):-):-):-):-) Ok, fellas, now I had my lough for today :-D. Time to get 4h of sleep ;-) Jul 08 00:53:08 CU Jul 08 00:53:25 Good luck, Joerg :) Jul 08 00:53:29 See you soon... Jul 08 00:53:36 ;-) Jul 08 00:53:37 * Dave casts an evil look at Joerg Jul 08 00:53:59 * SpeedEvil casts peanuts at jOERG_rw. Jul 08 00:54:53 * alphabeat catches peanuts in midair Jul 08 00:58:20 lol... i was actually eating burnt peanuts while i read that Jul 08 00:58:54 What else should coder-monkeys eat? Jul 08 01:00:24 :p Jul 08 01:10:38 so whats standard shipping with ups? like 3-5 days? Jul 08 01:13:29 roughly Jul 08 01:13:34 depending on location Jul 08 01:13:40 depends on sending/receiving location, of course Jul 08 01:14:06 and shipping type of course ;) Jul 08 01:14:29 anyone gotten tracking notices yet? Jul 08 01:15:27 nullpuppy: you have to send in your SIM, so they can put it in the phone, so it can report its GPS position to you as it goes through the process. Jul 08 01:15:41 ha Jul 08 01:15:53 lol Jul 08 01:15:57 that'd be awesome Jul 08 01:16:01 you'll also get a battery switching gnome to keep it powered the whole trip Jul 08 01:16:10 or a hampster in a cage or something Jul 08 01:16:31 russellb: or working suspend. Jul 08 01:16:36 touche Jul 08 01:20:29 SpeedEvil: nah, wake on RTC alarm should be fine. Takes 4min to bot, but so what ;-) Jul 08 01:20:42 jOERG_rw: true Jul 08 01:20:52 s/bot/boot/ Jul 08 01:20:53 jOERG_rw meant: SpeedEvil: nah, wake on RTC alarm should be fine. Takes 4min to boot, but so what ;-) Jul 08 01:21:21 tanks, apt! Jul 08 01:21:52 ~what is apt? Jul 08 01:21:53 well, pt is a Manuel Jul 08 01:25:39 what a silly quit message Jul 08 01:26:30 quitmsg? nuked that noise ;-) Jul 08 01:29:26 i'm not sure if you can change pidgin's Jul 08 01:32:22 someone go reverse engineer tmobile-us's "tmobile@home" stuff so i can make calls through hotspots and avoid international roaming charges Jul 08 01:34:42 ieatlint: it''s more than that Jul 08 01:35:02 ieatlint: you need to hack support for UMA into the GSM chipset Jul 08 01:35:24 ieatlint: AIUI Jul 08 01:36:15 interesting... Jul 08 01:36:39 Or in principle a suitable USB reader - to do a wifi only phoone Jul 08 01:40:19 well, my hopes are dashed... skype it is, i suppose Jul 08 01:41:23 or use grandcentral and gizmo Jul 08 01:42:18 ieatlint, Got a grandCentral invite you'd like to toss my way? :D Jul 08 01:43:20 last i checked, they don't offer us invites to give out anymore Jul 08 01:43:42 Drat. Jul 08 01:44:01 will look again... Jul 08 01:45:45 nope, sorry Jul 08 01:45:46 "no new invitations have been sent out since March 14" says wikipedia Jul 08 01:54:18 so, which builds are people using? Jul 08 02:01:21 Old build is old. Jul 08 02:56:39 has anyone that ordered a freerunner gotten a shipping tracking # yet from the online order in the usa? Jul 08 02:56:51 not i Jul 08 02:57:20 just an order confirmation right? Jul 08 02:57:27 yup Jul 08 02:57:56 something shoulda happened today Jul 08 02:58:17 someone at work said they got a tracking # Jul 08 02:58:19 linuxxr: depends on your order # Jul 08 02:58:21 yeah, some dude in the list said shipments would likley start tomorrow Jul 08 02:58:23 real reliable i know, friend of a friend ... Jul 08 02:58:25 unless they dont have them ready to ship Jul 08 02:58:29 shipments ~#1500 start tomorrow Jul 08 02:58:53 has anyone under that confirmed shipment yet? Jul 08 02:59:00 will they doo 500 a day? Jul 08 02:59:11 *shrug* Jul 08 02:59:31 i'm 1459 and have nothing Jul 08 02:59:43 i live 45min from fremont ... it's so sad Jul 08 02:59:54 hehe. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jul 08 02:59:57 2008