**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 08 02:59:57 2008
Jul 08 03:00:04 <cjb> ieatlint: they said they'll ship tomorrow
Jul 08 03:00:07 <nullpuppy> what kidn of shipping did you pay for?
Jul 08 03:00:12 <linuxxr> y what the 9.00 dollars it cost to ship/
Jul 08 03:00:19 <ieatlint> i forgot
Jul 08 03:00:34 <nullpuppy> hehe, ok
Jul 08 03:01:47 <linuxxr>  dandit those overnite orders are getting in me way
Jul 08 03:02:24 <LetoTo> nullpuppy: me with 1344 did not yet receive confirmation for shipping
Jul 08 03:02:26 <ieatlint> 2nd day
Jul 08 03:02:33 <ieatlint> had to go back to the store and match the shipping price
Jul 08 03:02:43 <nullpuppy> hehe, ok
Jul 08 03:02:52 <nullpuppy> LetoTo: k. hmm
Jul 08 03:02:59 <ieatlint> wtf... i paid $14.85 for shipped when i ordered thursday
Jul 08 03:03:05 <ieatlint> now it says it'd be $15.37
Jul 08 03:03:12 <linuxxr> ylol
Jul 08 03:03:16 <nullpuppy> haha
Jul 08 03:03:20 <nullpuppy> i blame gas prices
Jul 08 03:03:21 <ieatlint> apparently 50 cent increase over 4 days
Jul 08 03:03:35 <LetoTo> matches oil? :)
Jul 08 03:04:29 <ieatlint> i should get a discount, i'm paying for "2 day air", and they sure as hell aren't flying it across the bay
Jul 08 03:04:39 <nullpuppy> lol
Jul 08 03:04:49 <linuxxr> so no tracking #'s yet for anybody?
Jul 08 03:05:01 <nullpuppy> thats what it sounds like :/
Jul 08 03:05:55 <linuxxr> hmmmm
Jul 08 03:07:20 <linuxxr> seems that if orders starting with 1500 were shippind tomorrow ...,,  mayybe there would be atleast 4 people here    that got a track #
Jul 08 03:07:41 <linuxxr> maybe not
Jul 08 03:07:49 <rtm> I'm 1367, and I got no track number, nor any indication that shipping had occured.
Jul 08 03:08:16 <linuxxr> im way up there at 2038
Jul 08 03:08:41 <linuxxr> ordered on the 4th
Jul 08 03:08:43 <nullpuppy> 1539 here
Jul 08 03:10:18 <rtm> With the neo1973, a wiki page was created to track when each buyer received their unit, as a function of order number.   That was helpful, because you could tell if persons who had ordered after you had received their unit.   We should do that again.
Jul 08 03:12:18 <nullpuppy> that is an excellent idea
Jul 08 03:13:38 <cjb> what's the page?
Jul 08 03:13:42 <LetoTo> what's a couple days on two years of time :P
Jul 08 03:13:43 <cjb> or rather, what was the page
Jul 08 03:13:43 <rtm> The old neo1973 page is http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners
Jul 08 03:14:49 <rtm> It's still there.  We could clone it, and maybe stop driving other people nuts with our incessant "Has anyone heard anything????" messages (I'm very guilty of this).
Jul 08 03:15:10 <cjb> sure, go for it.
Jul 08 03:16:02 <nullpuppy> rtm: hehe, many of us are guilty of it
Jul 08 03:16:48 <rtm> nullpuppy: And the lucky dogs who already have Freerunners are getting annoyed.
Jul 08 03:17:18 <nullpuppy> yeah, i don't blame em.
Jul 08 03:18:13 <ieatlint> see, i just rely on other people incessantly asking, and fully expect someone to run in here shouting about getting a tracking num when it happens
Jul 08 03:18:24 <linuxxr> so some americans have recieved the freerunner already?
Jul 08 03:18:47 <rtm> Just Bush and Cheney.
Jul 08 03:18:52 <nullpuppy> ieatlint: yeah, i expect that to happen. probably repeatedly ;)
Jul 08 03:18:55 <linuxxr> them dogs
Jul 08 03:19:23 <ieatlint> it is possible that we won't get shipment confirmation, i imagine
Jul 08 03:20:18 <rtm> Openmoko will save themselves some grief if they send confirmation numbers.   Otherwise, we'll bug them with emails and phone calls.
Jul 08 03:20:24 <nullpuppy> possible, yeah
Jul 08 03:21:04 <ieatlint> eh, depending on how overwhelmed they are, i could see them concentrating on shipping versus telling people they've done it
Jul 08 03:21:27 <ieatlint> granted, they should have a system setup for this purpose, so as they log a shipment for their internal records it would tell us
Jul 08 03:21:37 <ieatlint> but sometimes stupidity prevails, or shit breaks
Jul 08 03:22:03 * SpeedEvil notes there are turnkey software packages to do this with ebay.
Jul 08 03:23:09 <ieatlint> wouldn't surprise me if ups offered a system to do it either
Jul 08 03:31:34 <linuxxr> its called a tracking #
Jul 08 03:43:48 <dcordes_> which SRCREV does frameworkd_git like?
Jul 08 03:46:07 <nullpuppy> rtm: did you make a page like the P1_owners? or were you going to do that?
Jul 08 03:46:30 <rtm> I have not made the page...   
Jul 08 03:46:39 <nullpuppy> k
Jul 08 04:46:54 <alphabeat> sweet! http://www.brax4your.net/omoko/
Jul 08 04:53:14 <doc|home> alphabeat: funkah! kinda stubby looking though, is that to scale?
Jul 08 04:54:02 <alphabeat> that's what i was thinking....
Jul 08 04:54:10 <alphabeat> not sure about the scale..
Jul 08 05:05:12 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke * ra11f4b79b057 10/src/libraries/qtopiacomm/serial/qatchat.cpp: [atchat] Avoid a race where notifications were not send out and calls not announced
Jul 08 05:09:58 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r672973f110c6 10/packages/efl1/ (etk/initial_viewport.patch etk_cvs.bb): [efl] etk didn't initial scrolled_view correctly.
Jul 08 05:24:59 <Dave> Joerg :D
Jul 08 05:25:32 <jOERG_rw> Dave: morning!
Jul 08 05:25:43 <nullpuppy> http://neverbashfulwithbutter.blogspot.com/2007/12/experiments-in-deliciousness-bacon.html
Jul 08 05:25:47 <jOERG_rw> ;)
Jul 08 05:25:49 <nullpuppy> that looks delicious
Jul 08 05:25:55 <Dave> Behold, it is I! >:)
Jul 08 05:47:40 <lindi-> is there some way to press ctrl-c in the terminal?
Jul 08 05:48:30 <bobkare> afaik no. only way i've found to abort things there is to kill the entire terminal
Jul 08 05:48:41 <bobkare> would love to be proved wrong though
Jul 08 05:50:00 <alphabeat> you might have to remap ctrl?
Jul 08 05:50:37 <lindi-> alphabeat: there's some remapping facility?
Jul 08 05:52:05 <alphabeat> in bash i think there is yeah....
Jul 08 05:52:27 <lindi-> alphabeat: but what if i don't run bash but have done "exec foo"?
Jul 08 05:53:42 <alphabeat> hmm not sure sorr
Jul 08 05:53:42 <alphabeat> y
Jul 08 05:53:43 <lindi-> alphabeat: also, that is not bash
Jul 08 05:53:52 <lindi-> alphabeat: since it doesn't recognize the "fc" command
Jul 08 05:54:03 <lindi-> alphabeat: busybox sh maybe?
Jul 08 05:54:42 <bobkare> yeah, I think it's busybox
Jul 08 05:54:44 <alphabeat> not sure sorry. there has to be a way to remap though
Jul 08 05:55:14 <lindi-> alphabeat: but i don't think it's shell's duty
Jul 08 05:55:15 * SpeedEvil ponders.
Jul 08 05:55:49 <SpeedEvil> xmodmap?
Jul 08 05:55:54 <lindi-> i guess i should figure out how to build that from source
Jul 08 05:56:07 <lindi-> SpeedEvil: mmaybe :)
Jul 08 05:56:28 <SpeedEvil> You can run it remotely.
Jul 08 05:56:38 <bobkare> there really is a need for a more extended keyboard, even if you can remap, which of the already few symbols there are you going to go without?
Jul 08 05:57:51 <SpeedEvil> Who really needs q.
Jul 08 05:58:24 <mjr> yeah, q's just an annoying little brat with superpowers
Jul 08 05:58:35 <goodwill> nerd alert
Jul 08 05:58:43 <mjr> what, _here_?
Jul 08 05:59:30 <goodwill> :-P
Jul 08 06:03:21 <mjr> How can this be ... for he _is_ the Kwisatz Haderach!
Jul 08 06:35:54 <methril> morning
Jul 08 06:39:31 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03tick * r4512 10/trunk/src/target/thumbnails/ (9 files): adding thumbnail and correct the naming
Jul 08 06:48:05 <BlackFog> 'morning
Jul 08 06:49:31 <Hopscotch> good morning
Jul 08 07:02:21 <HauDyrArb> morning
Jul 08 07:04:43 <alphabeat> oh hai
Jul 08 07:05:44 <Agrajag-> i may have missed something in an announcement, but is the 900 gsm model really sold out already? if so, are there more being produced?
Jul 08 07:12:07 <BlackFog> i guess with the next delivery at the end of the month
Jul 08 07:15:48 <ebbe> It's quite cool it is selling so well :)
Jul 08 07:15:57 <ebbe> Like hot butter
Jul 08 07:16:52 <ebbe> Agrajag-: Maybe some of the distributors have some left
Jul 08 07:17:13 <Agrajag-> hmm yeah but i'm in australia, no distributors here
Jul 08 07:18:29 <ebbe> Hmm. And yes I know: Patience is a bitch ;)
Jul 08 07:21:33 <alphabeat> Agrajag: there never was any to begin with i don't think
Jul 08 07:21:46 <ecraven> if i setenv and saveenv in the NOR flash, will the changes be kept?
Jul 08 07:21:55 <ecraven> on a freerunner, without changing anything else
Jul 08 07:21:57 <Any_Key> Agrajag-, no, there mistake on the website. 900 model don't sold out, this phones not in Freemont yet AFIK
Jul 08 07:22:04 <ebbe> ecraven: I think it did on GTA01
Jul 08 07:23:05 <Any_Key> s/AFIK/AFAIK/
Jul 08 07:23:06 <apt> Any_Key meant: Agrajag-, no, there mistake on the website. 900 model don't sold out, this phones not in Freemont yet AFAIK
Jul 08 07:23:50 <Agrajag-> Any_Key: ah ok yeah i suspected that. thanks.
Jul 08 07:26:34 <ecraven> how do i disconnect from the nand flash via usb? if i type ~., i confuse the boot loader, and it doesn't seem to have a command quit/exit/bye...
Jul 08 07:27:50 <ebbe> ecraven: I close the terminal window.. :/
Jul 08 07:28:08 <ecraven> hm.. bootloader is still confused ;(
Jul 08 07:33:52 <lindi-> Ainulindale: thanks a lot for your help on getting openmoko emulation work for me. i documented all the steps at http://lindi.iki.fi/lindi/blog/posts/openmoko_emulation.html
Jul 08 07:34:14 <ecraven> can the kernel be a symlink? or does it have to be an actual file?
Jul 08 07:36:05 <Zoup> lindi-: thanks :)
Jul 08 07:39:52 <HauDyrArb> ecraven, if the symlink links to an actual file its probably ok
Jul 08 07:40:46 <HauDyrArb> but i think that the kernel is in its own partition 
Jul 08 07:41:17 <ecraven> HauDyrArb: it shouldn't need to be
Jul 08 07:42:11 <HauDyrArb> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Partition
Jul 08 07:42:23 <HauDyrArb> explains it better
Jul 08 07:44:48 <ecraven> HauDyrArb: i want to boot from SD, not internally
Jul 08 07:45:21 <HauDyrArb> i am not sure its working yet
Jul 08 07:45:38 <ecraven> some people seem to have it working
Jul 08 07:45:59 <HauDyrArb> at least automatic using the boot loader
Jul 08 07:46:28 <ebbe> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Boot_from_sd_card
Jul 08 07:47:44 <ecraven> ebbe: i tried that, doesn't quite work
Jul 08 07:48:14 <ebbe> ecraven: How far do you get?
Jul 08 07:48:17 <ChaosEagle> Good morning! ;)
Jul 08 07:49:32 <HauDyrArb> morning
Jul 08 07:49:55 <ecraven> yay, seems i got it mostly working.. 
Jul 08 07:50:01 <HauDyrArb> cool
Jul 08 07:50:06 <ecraven> single partition sd, with kernel in /boot/
Jul 08 07:50:16 <ChaosEagle> could any of you help me with gps on the gta02?
Jul 08 07:50:20 <ecraven> took me some time to understand why fatload was called *fat*load
Jul 08 07:50:32 <ecraven> ChaosEagle: i tried this morning, and i can't seem to get a lock on any satellites
Jul 08 07:50:39 <ChaosEagle> me neither :/
Jul 08 07:50:54 <ChaosEagle> AGPSUI is pretty standalone and doesn't need gpsd, does it?
Jul 08 07:51:32 <bobkare> Try standing still somewhere with good view of the sky for 15-20 minutes
Jul 08 07:51:38 <ChaosEagle> actually, my freerunner doesn't even SEE a single satellite according to agpsui
Jul 08 07:51:50 <ChaosEagle> mhh, I'll try placing the freerunner on the window pane again
Jul 08 07:52:08 <bobkare> I haven't had any luck in windows, only outside in the open
Jul 08 07:52:35 <ChaosEagle> mhh...
Jul 08 07:52:36 <ecraven> bobkare: 15 minutes? 
Jul 08 07:53:04 <bobkare> you can also look at the community ML thread "GPS", there's a perl script there for agps that's supposed to help a lot
Jul 08 07:53:10 <HauDyrArb> ecraven, now when it boots do you have tell it to use the SD from the bootloader or is it automatic ?
Jul 08 07:53:39 <ecraven> HauDyrArb: i have to tell it, but for some reason it still seems to boot the internal system ;(
Jul 08 07:53:52 <ChaosEagle> yeah, I know, but first I'm trying to get it to at least see any satellites, that should be possible, right?
Jul 08 07:54:02 <bobkare> ecraven: that's about the fastest I've gotten a cold fix. the freerunner needs to download a complete almanac which is sent every 12 minutes
Jul 08 07:54:22 <ecraven> bobkare: ah, i don't know much about GPS.. so after that, fixes should be much faster?
Jul 08 07:54:24 <bobkare> ChaosEagle: it might show something in the signal strength tab, nowhere else though
Jul 08 07:54:32 <ChaosEagle> mhh, okay
Jul 08 07:54:55 <ChaosEagle> but basically you don't need any extra config files or gpsd for agpsui to work?
Jul 08 07:55:19 <bobkare> ecraven: it loses all state when you turn it off so every time the gps is turned off/reset you have to wait
Jul 08 07:55:34 <bobkare> ChaosEagle: look at the log tab, does it spit out lots of nmea?
Jul 08 07:55:44 <bobkare> ChaosEagle: if not you probably need gpsd
Jul 08 07:55:47 <ChaosEagle> bobkare: yes, it does
Jul 08 07:56:09 <ChaosEagle> got gpsd, though, and changed /etc/default/gpsd according to the hint in the wiki
Jul 08 07:56:10 <bobkare> ok, then it doesn't seem to need gpsd, nice to know.
Jul 08 07:56:11 <ecraven> bobkare: that doesn't sound good.. so every time i restart the phone, i need to wait 20 minutes for a lock?
Jul 08 07:56:21 <ChaosEagle> so it's waiting now I guess
Jul 08 07:56:45 <ChaosEagle> bobkare: I think so, at least it already produced nmea-senteces without gpsd yesterday
Jul 08 07:57:06 <bobkare> ecraven: Yes, currently you have to. have a look at the mentioned ML thread for the agps script, that's supposed to help
Jul 08 07:57:07 <HauDyrArb> bobkare, why does it need to download the almanac, and will it be changed so it dont have to?
Jul 08 07:58:11 <bobkare> HauDyrArb: Because the almanac contains info on where the satellites are which is kind of the basis for the entire system to work. The agps stuff may turn out to be a solution to speed this up to reasonable speeds
Jul 08 07:58:20 <ChaosEagle> ecraven: according to the ML, you can vastly improve the TTFF with an external antenna, though - thought of getting one later today
Jul 08 07:58:35 <andrenarchy> dschanni
Jul 08 07:58:44 <andrenarchy> sorry wrong tab
Jul 08 07:58:46 <andrenarchy> ;)
Jul 08 07:58:53 <HauDyrArb> bobkare, ok
Jul 08 08:00:14 <bobkare> haven't tried that script yet myself, will probably have a go later today
Jul 08 08:02:49 <ChaosEagle> bobkare: let us know how it worked out :)
Jul 08 08:05:24 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03tick * r4513 10/trunk/src/target/thumbnails/ (30 files in 3 dirs): reorginize the thumbnails directories
Jul 08 08:05:49 <Wander_w> Using an external antenna is somewhat diminishing the purpose of an all-in-one device
Jul 08 08:07:23 <ecraven> i looked through that threat, but no perl script was mentioned
Jul 08 08:09:27 <ecraven> does anyone have aid-ini.pl?
Jul 08 08:11:27 <ChaosEagle2> re (disconnect -.- )
Jul 08 08:16:51 <Zoup> lindi-: i did that and still i get 'no network' , any idea ?
Jul 08 08:17:52 <lindi-> Zoup: did you flash.sh?
Jul 08 08:18:17 <Zoup> lindi-: Yes 
Jul 08 08:19:01 <lindi-> Zoup: what does it print?
Jul 08 08:20:52 <Zoup> lindi-: http://rafb.net/p/KfduMZ93.html 
Jul 08 08:22:02 <lindi-> Zoup: did you download devel rootfs image to right location?
Jul 08 08:22:21 <bman> so
Jul 08 08:22:27 <lindi-> Zoup: check the "I downloaded a new gtk image from" part
Jul 08 08:22:43 <bman> does moko have plans for arm compatibility?
Jul 08 08:23:15 <Zoup> lindi-: i did , its tar.gz file not jffs 
Jul 08 08:23:29 <Zoup> lindi-: the file IS under /openmoko 
Jul 08 08:24:38 <lindi-> Zoup: my blog post is wrong :)
Jul 08 08:24:50 <lindi-> Zoup: you want Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080706-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2
Jul 08 08:25:06 <mjr> bman, what do you mean? The Neos _are_ arm?
Jul 08 08:25:18 <Zoup> do i have to get Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080706-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 then  ?:)
Jul 08 08:25:23 <mjr> v4 to be more spesific
Jul 08 08:26:04 <lindi-> Zoup: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080706/openmoko-devel-image-om-gta02.jffs2
Jul 08 08:26:11 <bman> sweet
Jul 08 08:26:14 <bman> :)
Jul 08 08:26:17 <bman> just asking
Jul 08 08:27:19 * rgl waves
Jul 08 08:27:34 <NiZoX> hi
Jul 08 08:28:25 <lindi-> Zoup: or hmm
Jul 08 08:28:46 <lindi-> Zoup: the links seem to expire fast
Jul 08 08:28:58 <Zoup> lindi-: already downloading something ..
Jul 08 08:29:53 <Zoup> lindi-: put it under /openmoko , name rootfs_wildcard as its name , flash , qemu , right ?
Jul 08 08:30:28 <lindi-> Zoup: i know i have 'Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080706-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2' but i can't find it from any mirror anymore
Jul 08 08:30:34 <lindi-> Zoup: yes
Jul 08 08:31:14 <Zoup> lindi-: Great :)
Jul 08 08:31:21 <Zoup> lindi-: illet you know the result
Jul 08 09:05:08 <torpor> hey guys .. i have configured opkg to have another -d <destination> (the card) and i would like to know if there is still the requirement to 'fix-links' so that there are symlinks on root to the new destination.
Jul 08 09:05:27 <torpor> my neo1973 is definitely crammed to the gills with apps, and i need to put more stuff on there safely and comfortably, so i hope i can do that .. 
Jul 08 09:08:33 <ecraven> what is the best dialler around for the freerunner?
Jul 08 09:08:47 <polz> torpor: wouldn't it be easier to just put / on the card ?
Jul 08 09:09:13 <polz> ecraven: Toby from down the street. He can get you anything, he knows people :P
Jul 08 09:09:34 <polz> oh, dialler, not dealer. Sorry :)
Jul 08 09:09:38 <ecraven> ;-P ;)
Jul 08 09:09:44 <torpor> polz: i could do that, but i haven't yet.
Jul 08 09:09:58 <torpor> i'd like to have a simpler setup right now, and i don't have time to work out why root-on-sd isn't working on my neo
Jul 08 09:10:00 <ecraven> torpor: if you manage that, please tell me how, i can't get the FR to boot from sd
Jul 08 09:10:11 <torpor> yeah its related to the version of u-boot you're using.
Jul 08 09:10:44 <torpor> there are *serious* bugs in uboot which means that it doesn't see the SD card.  this has been fixed about 7 times, but due to project weirdness - developers and distro makers not talking to each other, or testing features - it constantly regresses ..
Jul 08 09:10:57 <torpor> you have to find a u-boot that works.
Jul 08 09:11:08 <torpor> and of course, you have to then not brick your freerunner putting it on there.
Jul 08 09:11:18 <ecraven> torpor: how do i find such a u-boot?
Jul 08 09:11:59 <polz> torpor: I think I "cheated" a bit. My kernel is on a separate partition and I just pass the rootfs to it as a parameter
Jul 08 09:12:18 <polz> torpor: so uboot can't screw up anything there :)
Jul 08 09:14:43 <torpor> ecraven: you have to either build u-boot yourself, and test it yourself, or find someone who has already done that.
Jul 08 09:15:46 <torpor> i've done it myself a few times for my neo1973 but i keep gettign bitten in the ass by regression, so i've decided to wait until i get my freerunner and then i will do a mammoth project to get my neo1973 and FR booting from SD, using a similar config, so that I can have the monster linux box in my pocket that i've always wanted, compiler onboard, source onboard, python IDE onboard, bt working, wlan working, gps, calls, etc. ;)
Jul 08 09:16:06 <ecraven> torpor: when will you get your freerunner?
Jul 08 09:16:20 <ecraven> torpor: that's what i want too ;)
Jul 08 09:18:09 <torpor> ecraven next week probably
Jul 08 09:18:40 <torpor> i already had my neo1973 set up perfectly and then it got borked by u-boot regression and i've had to put aside my sd image and just boot the scaredycat image in the meantime.
Jul 08 09:19:02 <ecraven> torpor: very good ;)
Jul 08 09:19:13 <ecraven> i only got mine yesterday, and i don't understand most of the problems i'm facing
Jul 08 09:21:35 <torpor> ecraven: well its early days yet.
Jul 08 09:21:55 <torpor> hopefully someone will come along an dstart producing a real image for you that will pack everything onboard that you could possibly want in a phone and you won't have to worry about it.
Jul 08 09:22:07 <ecraven> mainly i want it to be faster..
Jul 08 09:22:17 <ecraven> the dialler needs 2 seconds to start up, that's not a Good Thing
Jul 08 09:24:34 <Haproli> torpor: Yeah that would be a good thing
Jul 08 09:25:37 <Haproli> For me, I know to use linux a bit, but there is not a lot of stuff I understand on my freerunner. But hey, that's for me to figure that out I guess
Jul 08 09:26:23 <lindi-> Haproli: do you already have your freerunner?
Jul 08 09:26:29 <Haproli> Yeah
Jul 08 09:26:43 <Haproli> got here yesterday, from Germany
Jul 08 09:27:24 <lindi-> Haproli: no smoke yet?
Jul 08 09:27:49 <Haproli> None I am aware of lol
Jul 08 09:28:01 <HauDyr> Haproli, where did you order it from and when?
Jul 08 09:28:28 <Haproli> http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=[Shop]
Jul 08 09:28:33 <Haproli> this is the url of the store
Jul 08 09:28:48 <HauDyr> same place where i orderet
Jul 08 09:28:55 <Haproli> it comes with ears and a nice sack
Jul 08 09:29:17 <ebbe> 0o-o0 Ears :)
Jul 08 09:29:40 <lindi-> Haproli: what features have you tested so far?
Jul 08 09:29:50 <Haproli> Order date: 2008-06-30 11:21:05
Jul 08 09:30:09 <Haproli> everything that ships standard and is graphical
Jul 08 09:30:19 <Haproli> ow and vi
Jul 08 09:30:32 <Haproli> Only thing I'm missing is a fully featured keyboard
Jul 08 09:30:42 <Haproli> and I can't find out to actually send an sms
Jul 08 09:31:22 <Haproli> I can type it, save it, etc but Can't figure out how to actually send it
Jul 08 09:31:53 <ebbe> Haproli: Nothing happens when you press the mail icon on the top?
Jul 08 09:32:01 <Wander_w> ...attach your freerunner to a pidgeon
Jul 08 09:32:04 <Wander_w> easy
Jul 08 09:32:22 <Haproli> No, it moves the sms to mij "sent" box
Jul 08 09:32:34 <Haproli> but nothing arrives
Jul 08 09:32:50 <ebbe> Haproli: Have you updated the software?
Jul 08 09:33:01 <Haproli> I installed the latest image
Jul 08 09:33:06 <Haproli> latest stable image*
Jul 08 09:33:23 <ebbe> Try opkg update; opkg upgrade
Jul 08 09:33:43 <ebbe> And try again
Jul 08 09:33:46 <HauDyr> Haproli, i ordered mine Order date: 2008-06-27 14:03:32 and i havent recievet it yet :-(
Jul 08 09:33:52 <Haproli> Where are you ? 
Jul 08 09:33:57 <HauDyr> Denmark
Jul 08 09:34:11 <Haproli> Strange, I'm in Belgium
Jul 08 09:34:33 <ebbe> HauDyr: Hvordan har du bestilt?
Jul 08 09:34:41 <yangvnc> This battery metter in openmoko, when i click it nothing happens, I don't know the level of my battery, is there a way to see that?
Jul 08 09:35:00 <HauDyr> fra hanheld-linux.com
Jul 08 09:35:04 <Haproli> I will try to update, but I first need to connect to wifi
Jul 08 09:35:15 <HauDyr> ca 1000kr dyre men hva
Jul 08 09:35:19 <Haproli> and I don't have time to do that right now, I'm "working"
Jul 08 09:36:06 <ebbe> yangvnc: When it's not charging or connected via usb, it should show
Jul 08 09:36:20 <ebbe> HauDyr: Men bare selv så?
Jul 08 09:36:36 <yangvnc> ebbe: it doesnt
Jul 08 09:36:36 <HauDyr> ebbe, yeps
Jul 08 09:36:55 <yangvnc> ebbe: should the meter appear on the icon if i click it?
Jul 08 09:37:21 <Haproli> ebbe: This evening I'm going to read some about the package manager
Jul 08 09:37:23 <ebbe> yangvnc: Nothing should happen.. 
Jul 08 09:37:48 <ebbe> yangvnc: What are you using? ASU, om2007.02?
Jul 08 09:37:58 <yangvnc> ebbe: Motorola a780
Jul 08 09:38:42 <ebbe> yangvnc: Maybe that's the problem then. Maybe it simply don't know how to read the battery level from that phone
Jul 08 09:40:12 <yangvnc> yep
Jul 08 09:42:50 <Ainulindale> paulproteus: hey
Jul 08 09:43:32 <lindi-> Haproli: 349 EUR? interesting, 299EUR from pulster.de must have been extra cheap :)
Jul 08 09:44:09 <Haproli> lindi: Yeah I mailed to pulster.de, but the delivery was one month later
Jul 08 09:44:22 <Haproli> Do you get the ears and sack with pulster ? 
Jul 08 09:44:24 <ebbe> lindi-: Isn't pulster without puch and hearphones?
Jul 08 09:44:30 <Haproli> puch*
Jul 08 09:44:39 <Haproli> sack isn't the right word I believe :-d
Jul 08 09:44:48 <Ainulindale> pouch
Jul 08 09:44:56 <ebbe> *pouch then :)
Jul 08 09:49:23 <torpor> Haproli: me too .. i first placed an order with pulster, but then when they told me at least a month to wait i switched to handhelds .. hopefully we get our freerunners next week eh?
Jul 08 09:51:54 <KenSentMe> Hi, i just received my Freerunner, yay! Where can i find information about connecting to a wifi-network?
Jul 08 09:52:33 <Tanuva> KenSentMe: on the wiki
Jul 08 09:52:36 <HauDyr> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wifi
Jul 08 09:53:13 <Tanuva> my neo claims to be associated with the ap but I cant get it to ping or to be pingable...
Jul 08 09:53:27 <KenSentMe> I just found that page, there is not desktop application for wifi in the standard openmoko software?
Jul 08 09:53:37 <Tanuva> afaik no
Jul 08 09:54:07 <Tanuva> but its not that hard to set up, just ssh to it, using a terminal on it is quite painful :)
Jul 08 09:54:41 <Haproli> torpot: I already have mine
Jul 08 09:54:47 <Haproli> torpor*
Jul 08 09:55:31 <KenSentMe> Tanuva, i connected throug usb/ssh. What file editor do you use to create the conf file?
Jul 08 09:56:45 <Tanuva> KenSentMe: vi for example
Jul 08 09:57:00 <Tanuva> maybe theres something else available...
Jul 08 09:57:39 <KenSentMe> Tanuva, i am not used to using vi, so i have to learn it first. I use nano normally
Jul 08 09:58:25 <Tanuva> KenSentMe: press 'i' to "insert" -> type in the file, then esc and ":wq" to save and quit
Jul 08 09:58:41 <KenSentMe> Ah, thanks!
Jul 08 10:09:43 <ecraven> can the internal wifi connect to wpa-encrypted networks?
Jul 08 10:13:39 <playya> ecraven, yes http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_wlan
Jul 08 10:14:24 <ecraven> playya: thanks! i tried wifi and wireless, but found nothing ;( should have tried wlan too
Jul 08 10:14:59 <KenSentMe> I get 404 errors when running opkg update. Is that a know problem?
Jul 08 10:17:25 <ebbe> KenSentMe: Yes, don't mind them..
Jul 08 10:17:51 <KenSentMe> ebbe, ok, but the file list is updated anyway?
Jul 08 10:17:57 <ebbe> Yes
Jul 08 10:18:01 <KenSentMe> Cool
Jul 08 10:18:20 <ebbe> Unless every repository gives a 404
Jul 08 10:18:38 <ebbe> But a few (like 4 i think) always does
Jul 08 10:18:48 <KenSentMe> I'm running opkg upgrade now without errors, so some things do work
Jul 08 10:19:52 <KenSentMe> Is anyone using tangogps
Jul 08 10:20:02 <ebbe> KenSentMe: I am
Jul 08 10:20:07 <ebbe> But not on Freerunner
Jul 08 10:20:17 <ebbe> Only on Neo1973
Jul 08 10:23:41 <ecraven> KenSentMe: i tried, but i can't get a gps lock
Jul 08 10:24:26 <KenSentMe> ecraven, did you install libsqlite?
Jul 08 10:26:09 <KenSentMe> It seems to be a dependancy of tangogps, but i get an error that it is missing
Jul 08 10:27:20 * leinirAWAY walks in and holds a big, brown parcel up in the classic victorious get pose "Weeh!" ;)
Jul 08 10:27:25 <ecraven> KenSentMe: it installed that automatically
Jul 08 10:27:56 <KenSentMe> ecraven, ah, let me check again when the upgrade is finished
Jul 08 10:28:38 <ecraven> is there an application for the FR that shows me the statistics about all interfaces? mainly ip addresses and whether it is up or down?
Jul 08 10:28:53 <Wander_w> ecraven: ifconfig?
Jul 08 10:28:58 <Ainulindale> ecraven: None that I know about but the one you will come up with :-)
Jul 08 10:28:59 <ecraven> Wander_w: something more gui-friendly
Jul 08 10:29:21 <ecraven> i want to see the ip of my neo without attaching it to a computer, so i can connect via wlan
Jul 08 10:29:26 <bobkare> KenSentMe: I am
Jul 08 10:29:55 <Ainulindale> ecraven: there's a hello world application on the wiki that does something near that
Jul 08 10:30:01 <Ainulindale> Perhaps you could modify it ?
Jul 08 10:30:56 <ecraven> Ainulindale: i'll look into it, but i haven't tried compiling anything for the FR (or any other phone), so it might take some time
Jul 08 10:31:30 <Ainulindale> ecraven: I think it was python
Jul 08 10:33:04 <Haproli> If I update with the opkg package manager, will it automaticly pick the fastest connection ?
Jul 08 10:33:22 <ecraven> Ainulindale: looks like c
Jul 08 10:33:41 <Ainulindale> Don't move, I'll check that
Jul 08 10:34:13 <Ainulindale> http://blogs.gnome.org/thos/2008/07/01/openmoko-freerunner-test-application/
Jul 08 10:34:14 <Ainulindale> Here
Jul 08 10:34:16 <Ainulindale> Python.
Jul 08 10:35:59 <ecraven> Ainulindale: thanks! looking into it right now
Jul 08 10:36:11 <Ainulindale> You're welcome
Jul 08 10:41:27 <KenSentMe> I get this error when trying to install tangogps: http://paste.ubuntu.com/25893/
Jul 08 10:42:18 <ebbe> KenSentMe: Are you connected to the net?
Jul 08 10:42:36 <KenSentMe> good one
Jul 08 10:42:52 <CVirus> lol
Jul 08 10:43:07 <bobkare> sounds like you either have no net connection or not a working resolver
Jul 08 10:44:11 <KenSentMe> I think wifi went down during the upgrade
Jul 08 10:46:49 <ecraven> Ainulindale: now i have this nice python file, and all necessary dependencies, but how do i actually start it on the neo? i have an open ssh connection
Jul 08 10:47:51 <ebbe> ecraven: Write: export DISPLAY=:0
Jul 08 10:48:03 <ebbe> And then execute the file
Jul 08 10:48:13 <ecraven> thanks ;) 
Jul 08 10:56:07 <KenSentMe> bobkare, If tangogps says 'No GPS found' does that mean that it can't connect to the gps device or that it doesnt get a gps signal?
Jul 08 10:58:09 <ecraven> how can i automatically start gpsd whenever i activate the gps
Jul 08 11:01:02 <bobkare> KenSentMe: means it can't connec to gpsd
Jul 08 11:01:05 <bobkare> *connect
Jul 08 11:01:19 <KenSentMe> bobkare, did you manage to get it working with gpsd?
Jul 08 11:02:22 <bobkare> yes
Jul 08 11:02:31 <bobkare> there are instructions for setting up gpsd on the wiki
Jul 08 11:02:38 <bobkare> you have to change the device it opens
Jul 08 11:03:18 <bobkare> ecraven: I think you normally just let gpsd run, the gps can be switched on and off anyway
Jul 08 11:03:57 <ecraven> bobkare: so it's no problem for gpsd if the gps goes away?
Jul 08 11:04:11 <ecraven> how do i add applications to the menu?
Jul 08 11:04:16 <bobkare> ecraven: tell me if you find out what's trigged by the turn on gps menu though, I'd like to fire the agps script there
Jul 08 11:04:40 <bobkare> gpsd shouldn't have any problems with the gps being switched on and off
Jul 08 11:05:04 <ecraven> bobkare: ;) agps is aid-ini.pl ??
Jul 08 11:05:57 <bobkare> not sure, haven't looked at it yet
Jul 08 11:06:13 <bobkare> some perl script mentioned on the community ML
Jul 08 11:08:59 <KenSentMe> bobkare, there is no /etc/default/gpsd on my system, should i create a new one and add 'GPS_DEV="/dev/ttySAC1' ?
Jul 08 11:10:06 <bobkare> KenSentMe: and you installed gpsd via opkg?
Jul 08 11:10:55 <Tuju> how fast data connections you can have with GPRS 2,5G ?
Jul 08 11:11:07 <Tuju> it's not 3g right?
Jul 08 11:11:10 <bobkare> KenSentMe: you'd have to see if /etc/init.d/gpsd reads the settings from the default file
Jul 08 11:11:15 <mjr> theory, 80kbps, practice, >50
Jul 08 11:11:19 <mjr> it's not
Jul 08 11:11:29 <Tuju> mjr: ah, that's well enough. thanks :)
Jul 08 11:11:55 <Tuju> mjr: hi mikko
Jul 08 11:11:57 <mjr> 's okay for many things
Jul 08 11:12:06 <mjr> not all, but many :]
Jul 08 11:12:41 <Tuju> well, in many places you can't get flatrate so 3g is just faster way to get rid of your €'s :)
Jul 08 11:13:19 <mjr> luckily we do get flat :]
Jul 08 11:13:30 <raster> ands in some places 3g data is 1/100th the price of 2g data
Jul 08 11:13:31 <Tuju> i assume that this now sold model works fine in EU
Jul 08 11:13:36 <ecraven> how do i add an exit button in a pygtk application?
Jul 08 11:13:37 <raster> (or that factor)
Jul 08 11:13:50 <raster> as u can buy it in monthly plans of like 1, 2, or 5gb/month
Jul 08 11:13:52 <Tuju> in band wise
Jul 08 11:13:55 <raster> but 2g data is charged per kb
Jul 08 11:14:08 <raster> and per kb charges are insane
Jul 08 11:14:23 <Tuju> raster: yep, talk about telco greediness :)
Jul 08 11:14:42 <raster> Tuju:  actually in .au 3 offers the bes data rates
Jul 08 11:14:47 <raster> but they dont even yhave a 2g network
Jul 08 11:14:51 <raster> they ONLY have a 3g network
Jul 08 11:14:54 <raster> thus if u are not on 3g
Jul 08 11:14:56 <Tuju> ah, that's odd :)
Jul 08 11:15:01 <raster> u are roaming on a competitors 2g network
Jul 08 11:15:06 <raster> and 3 have to pay the competitor for network access
Jul 08 11:15:11 <raster> thus the charges are high
Jul 08 11:15:23 <raster> if its on 3's own 3g+ only network u get excellent rates
Jul 08 11:15:31 <Tuju> luckily estonia/tallinn is filled with wifi ;-)
Jul 08 11:15:44 <raster> thus for me 3g vs 2g for data is a deal breaker in terms of using a neo or freerunner for data.
Jul 08 11:15:57 <raster> .au is filled with it too
Jul 08 11:15:59 <raster> wel sydney is
Jul 08 11:16:09 <raster> i can see like 100+access points from my balcony
Jul 08 11:16:15 <Tuju> heh
Jul 08 11:16:16 <raster> but every single one is wep/wpa
Jul 08 11:16:30 <Tuju> here are street signs that denote for wifi coverage.
Jul 08 11:16:30 <raster> u have download/upload wuotas on your boradband
Jul 08 11:16:32 <raster> per month
Jul 08 11:16:34 <Tuju> and they are everywhere.
Jul 08 11:16:37 <Danker> raster: So you can have free internet ;)
Jul 08 11:16:48 <raster> so u sure as hell dont go giving out free broadband access via an open wireless AP to people
Jul 08 11:16:54 <raster> because u paid for the bandwidth
Jul 08 11:16:56 <raster> then they use it
Jul 08 11:16:59 <raster> and when its used up...
Jul 08 11:17:05 <raster> u either pay per MB in excess
Jul 08 11:17:15 <raster> or u get dropped down to 128kbit until the end of the month
Jul 08 11:17:30 <raster> Danker:  no... wpa/wep...
Jul 08 11:17:36 <raster> they lock them down
Jul 08 11:17:48 <Danker> wep is almost free internet ;)
Jul 08 11:17:49 <mjr> Tuju, get the 900MHz model
Jul 08 11:17:58 <Danker> wpa is hard to "crack"
Jul 08 11:18:03 <Danker> But wep is quite easy ;)
Jul 08 11:18:28 <Tuju> mjr: ack, I'll do!
Jul 08 11:18:40 <raster> Danker: cracking wep would be actively circumventing locks/protection
Jul 08 11:18:41 <Tuju> mjr: thanks for the tip.
Jul 08 11:18:52 <raster> as such it would be an obvious crime to crack wep and use that network
Jul 08 11:18:58 <raster> an oipen network is grey-are
Jul 08 11:19:03 <Danker> Maybe x)
Jul 08 11:19:07 <raster> but a secured one is "we put up a door and a lock - so keep out"
Jul 08 11:19:25 <Tuju>  wifi signs like this http://www.tarbija24.ee/foto/5/4/596454541fcf921ca7_3.jpg
Jul 08 11:19:35 <mjr> Tuju, well you asked for one that works in europe...
Jul 08 11:19:46 <HauDyr> more like a gnat net than a door :-)
Jul 08 11:19:57 <Tuju> mjr: yep, i didn't know which band is nowdays in use.
Jul 08 11:20:19 <mjr> 850 is an american thing since they like to do things differently
Jul 08 11:20:35 <mjr> and sadly, no full quad for gta02 (03, maybe, apparently)
Jul 08 11:20:47 <mjr> the other bands are 1800 and 1900, but both phones do those
Jul 08 11:21:13 <Tuju> having a tenpack of wrong model might not be fun :)
Jul 08 11:22:13 <mjr> at least last I checked btw 900 models were only sold by EU resellers, not openmoko's own web store. Might have changed or change.
Jul 08 11:22:21 <mjr> (such as pulster.de)
Jul 08 11:23:03 <raster> we definitel want to do full quad in the future
Jul 08 11:23:05 <raster> we will try
Jul 08 11:23:15 <raster> having to make 2 models of phone just sucks for production
Jul 08 11:23:19 <KenSentMe> bobkare, tangogps is now working and connected to gpsd, thanks for the help. Now let's find a gps signal
Jul 08 11:27:50 <bobkare> KenSentMe: good luck
Jul 08 11:38:12 <heavenquake> what's included in the Neo Freerunner? Software-wise, I mean... Adress book, webbrowser, stuff like that?
Jul 08 11:40:31 <Haproli> heavenquake: Contacts, dialer, messages, screenshots, terminal
Jul 08 11:40:54 <Danker> Haproli: Is there any problems getting ssh to work?
Jul 08 11:41:28 <lindi-> heavenquake: do you have vnc client?
Jul 08 11:41:29 <Haproli> Don't know, Will try it this evening
Jul 08 11:41:36 <heavenquake> lindi-: nope
Jul 08 11:41:52 <heavenquake> Haproli: can I download/install fx Opera Mini through the terminal?
Jul 08 11:41:54 <lindi-> heavenquake: if you can get one i you can use my emulated freerunner over internet :)
Jul 08 11:41:59 <spydon> hehe does ssh with X forwarding work? :P
Jul 08 11:42:01 <Danker> And what about wifi - is it possible to get it working?
Jul 08 11:42:10 <lindi-> heavenquake: opera is proprietary, what's the point? ;)
Jul 08 11:42:22 <heavenquake> lindi-: the point is having a webbrowser? :)
Jul 08 11:44:15 <heavenquake> lindi-: I've installed a VNC client. How should I connect?
Jul 08 11:46:05 <Haproli> heavenquake: you can use wget to download it, don't know about the install
Jul 08 11:46:17 <ecraven> ssh works out of the box
Jul 08 11:47:14 <lindi-> heavenquake: see /query
Jul 08 11:48:03 <heavenquake> right
Jul 08 11:51:58 <KenSentMe> What is the standard web browser for the freerunner?
Jul 08 11:54:27 <ecraven> i just tried the openmoko-browser2, doesn't work too well ;(
Jul 08 11:58:26 <fragged> G'day guys, I'm interested in a Neo1973 but I'm wondering if 'Assisted GPS' hardware is the same as that of one of those in-car GPS systems?. This may sound silly, but Im asking because I believe the iPhone 2.0 triangulates signal from mobile phone towers to tell you your suburb and call this 'assisted GPS', I'm looking for one that will be able to replace a navigation system in a car
Jul 08 12:00:18 <bobkare> fragged: it's a normal GPS
Jul 08 12:01:02 <fragged> ah, ok cool, I'll look forward to getting one in the coming months :)
Jul 08 12:01:25 <bobkare> fragged: it may be extended with a-gps features later, which is really just about giving the gps some idea of what the time is, where it is and where the satellites are when it starts up so it can get a fix faster
Jul 08 12:01:28 <linuxxr> Hans Reiser, the Linux programmer convicted in April of murdering his estranged wife, has led police to what is believed to be her body
Jul 08 12:01:42 <linuxxr> mang
Jul 08 12:01:45 <spydon> linuxxr, old ;)
Jul 08 12:02:04 <spydon> linuxxr, I read it several minutes ago ;)
Jul 08 12:02:39 <fragged> bobkare, ah, I've been interested in a phone for in-car use as its only a hundred dollars more than a car-gps anyway :)
Jul 08 12:03:32 <yangvnc> hej polz
Jul 08 12:04:05 <polz> yangvnc: 'llo.
Jul 08 12:04:52 <bumbl> fragged: at the moment there is a discussion on the mailinglist concerning gps; at the moment if you need it buy it but buy an external antenna for faster fixes too
Jul 08 12:05:56 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4514 10/developers/erin_yueh/pythonEFL-sudoku/src/sudoku_ui.py: add clear function and some checking rules (Erin Yueh)
Jul 08 12:09:15 <fragged> Also, I understand the software is not entirely stable, but are the ingoing/outgoing phone and text message features considered stable yet?
Jul 08 12:11:32 <kdubois> fragged: as far as ive been told, they're functional
Jul 08 12:20:29 <Scythe|Bed> quick question about the freerunner: can it charge via USB?
Jul 08 12:20:49 <HauDyr> Scythe|Bed, there is no other way
Jul 08 12:21:11 <Scythe|Bed> ah good, i saw the package came with an AC adaptor and I got worried
Jul 08 12:21:15 <Wander_w> It can even charge *other* devices via USB :D
Jul 08 12:21:25 <Scythe|Bed> must be a wall wart with a usb socket
Jul 08 12:21:32 <Wander_w> Scythe|Bed: yes it is
Jul 08 12:21:32 <HauDyr> yes
Jul 08 12:21:44 <Scythe|Bed> i'm mighty tempted, i'm in the market for a new phone
Jul 08 12:21:52 <Scythe|Bed> the only hesitation I have is that it doesn't include a camera
Jul 08 12:21:57 <nuclear_eclipse> who decided to call AC adapters warts?!
Jul 08 12:22:05 <Scythe|Bed> wall warts, that's what we call 'em
Jul 08 12:22:16 <nuclear_eclipse> I know, and I just don't understand it!
Jul 08 12:22:17 <raster> i hate wall warts
Jul 08 12:22:25 <Wander_w> Scythe|Bed: the freerunner is probably able to use a ordinary webcam
Jul 08 12:22:30 <raster> i sooo wish for the day we have DC power sockets... on the wall
Jul 08 12:22:31 <Haproli> ow wart, I accidently read mart
Jul 08 12:22:40 <HauDyr> raster, what about wall marts?
Jul 08 12:22:42 * Scythe|Bed mzb_d800: back me up here, you've heard AC adaptors referred to as wall warts
Jul 08 12:22:53 <Scythe|Bed> uh, whups, how'd that /me get there
Jul 08 12:22:56 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke * ra3289d332a56 10/devices/ficgta01/src/plugins/phonevendors/ficgta01/vendor_ficgta01.cpp: [ticalypso] Enable callwaiting again and change CPI handling
Jul 08 12:23:01 <troy_> warts as in those bubbly things that grow on skin?
Jul 08 12:23:03 <mzb_d800> yeah, so?
Jul 08 12:23:12 <raster> HauDyr: luckily for me i dont live in the oo-ess-ov-eh... so i am not afflicted by wallmarts
Jul 08 12:23:13 <raster> :)
Jul 08 12:23:21 <troy_> how terrible
Jul 08 12:23:27 <Scythe|Bed> Wander_w: probably is able, doesn't really compare to having a built-in camera
Jul 08 12:23:33 <Wander_w> wall warts: they are called that way because, like real warts; you just keep getting more, and never less
Jul 08 12:23:37 <Scythe|Bed> mzb_d800: they don't believe me
Jul 08 12:23:47 <nuclear_eclipse> Wander_w: ah, it finally makes sense!
Jul 08 12:23:51 <nuclear_eclipse> thank you
Jul 08 12:23:59 <Wander_w> Scythe|Bed: no, indeed, proper webcams are far better :P
Jul 08 12:24:00 <troy_> i can haz wart remover?
Jul 08 12:24:06 <mzb_d800> I didn't say I liked the term ... but I've certainly heard them called that
Jul 08 12:24:23 <Scythe|Bed> Wander_w: if I wanted to take a proper photo I'd whip out my digicam, but I don't carry that everywhere
Jul 08 12:24:29 <Scythe|Bed> I DO carry my phone everywhere, however
Jul 08 12:24:34 <KenSentMe> I get this error when running gconftool: http://paste.ubuntu.com/25919/ Should i put dbus-launch in front? I did that without errors, but my interface didnt change either
Jul 08 12:24:50 <Scythe|Bed> http://www.tjhowse.com/bazmacro.jpg <-- I have a good digicam already
Jul 08 12:24:58 <raster> troy_: use usb power from your desktop/laptop
Jul 08 12:25:03 <Wander_w> Scythe|Bed: well... there is a little bit of space left in the moko, maybe you can add a camera in there
Jul 08 12:25:04 <raster> i love the idea of usb powered stuff
Jul 08 12:25:08 <raster> less wall warts
Jul 08 12:25:19 <raster> recycle my already prodgious set of usb ports
Jul 08 12:25:22 <Scythe|Bed> raster: hell yes, I spooge all over anything USB-charged
Jul 08 12:25:27 <raster> then again... i'm beginning to run out
Jul 08 12:25:38 <nuclear_eclipse> raster: now I never have enough USB sockets ! 
Jul 08 12:25:43 <raster> Scythe|Bed: i didnt need that image... :)
Jul 08 12:25:51 <Scythe|Bed> but he's soooo cuute
Jul 08 12:25:58 <Wander_w> buy a (wall wart-powered) powered USB hub
Jul 08 12:26:10 <Scythe|Bed> in the high-res version you can see me reflected in his eyes
Jul 08 12:26:15 <raster> nuclear_eclipse:  yeah. it's becomign a problem. thank god my monitor contrains a powere dusb hub with 4 more portipoos to play with... and a cd/sd/etc card reader
Jul 08 12:26:18 <leinir> Scythe|Bed: Yeah, i do well without a camera in the phone as well :) i do know a number of people for whom it is a deal-clincher, though, which is a shame :)
Jul 08 12:26:22 <raster> so i dontneed another usb one...
Jul 08 12:26:25 <leinir> Scythe|Bed: And that's a cute doggie *giggles* :)
Jul 08 12:26:48 <nuclear_eclipse> raster: what monitor is that?  it sounds really fancy/nice/mewantone :)
Jul 08 12:26:50 <Scythe|Bed> leinir: if it had a camera (and there were ant GSM850s in stock), i'd've already bought one
Jul 08 12:26:54 <Scythe|Bed> but now it's a Decision
Jul 08 12:26:56 <Scythe|Bed> with a capital D
Jul 08 12:27:02 <raster> nuclear_eclipse:  dell 27"
Jul 08 12:27:09 * nuclear_eclipse cries
Jul 08 12:27:10 <Ainulindale> Hmmmmm home roasted coffee
Jul 08 12:27:10 <raster> its nto fancy
Jul 08 12:27:21 <raster> a lot of monitors come with usb hubs in them now
Jul 08 12:27:24 <raster> for pluggin kbd/mouse
Jul 08 12:27:26 <Ainulindale> Smells soooo good
Jul 08 12:27:30 * nuclear_eclipse has no money after moko...
Jul 08 12:27:31 <raster> aas my kbd/mouse are a wireless combo
Jul 08 12:27:33 <raster> i dont need that
Jul 08 12:27:34 <Scythe|Bed> my keyboard's got two USB ports in the back
Jul 08 12:27:39 <raster> so i recycle it and plug my freerunners in
Jul 08 12:27:46 <Scythe|Bed> s? plural?
Jul 08 12:27:50 <Scythe|Bed> you have more than one?
Jul 08 12:28:03 <raster> in fact i often have 3 phones plugged in charging/being hacked on
Jul 08 12:28:07 <raster> my motorola and my fr's
Jul 08 12:28:22 <raster> Scythe|Bed: yes. it's kind of a necessity
Jul 08 12:28:23 <Ainulindale> Scythe|Bed: raster's a zillionnaire :-)
Jul 08 12:28:23 <HauDyr> kewl
Jul 08 12:28:36 <raster> Ainulindale: i wish.
Jul 08 12:28:45 <HauDyr> Ainulindale, you ment was
Jul 08 12:28:47 <raster> i only have 2
Jul 08 12:28:48 <lindi-> building small usb keyboard for openmoko would be interesting project
Jul 08 12:28:52 <Ainulindale> At least you have your freerunner :-)
Jul 08 12:28:52 <raster> but since i work at openmoko
Jul 08 12:28:59 <Zurga> hey i was planning to buy a neo freerunner, but i was wondering: in my country they support 900 aswell as 1800 band. So would it make any difference if i bought the 850 or 900 version?
Jul 08 12:29:05 <raster> its kind of a "it comes with the territory"
Jul 08 12:29:10 <lindi-> i have two spare nokia communicator 9110s with qwerty keyboard :)
Jul 08 12:29:14 <raster> hard to work on software for a phone when.. you dont even have one
Jul 08 12:29:15 <leinir> i'll have to try and convince my uni that they need to get a ten-pack for research use...
Jul 08 12:29:16 <Ainulindale> Oh by the way raster yesterday I wondered if it was really necessary to have a debug board
Jul 08 12:29:22 <Wander_w> raster: then stop chatting here and make us some cool software! :P
Jul 08 12:29:26 <leinir> lindi-: Those are quite nice pieces of kit :)
Jul 08 12:29:27 <raster> Ainulindale: i never use it
Jul 08 12:29:27 <Ainulindale> But as I think I won't be able to work on kernel stuff
Jul 08 12:29:31 <raster> Ainulindale: ever.
Jul 08 12:29:33 <Ainulindale> Oh
Jul 08 12:29:39 <Ainulindale> What's its use then ?
Jul 08 12:29:39 <raster> Ainulindale: as i never fuck with my uboot
Jul 08 12:29:43 <raster> i never reflash it
Jul 08 12:29:44 <Ainulindale> Ok :-)
Jul 08 12:29:47 <raster> i leave it the fuck alone
Jul 08 12:29:53 <Ainulindale> Reflash your uboot or reflash your image ?
Jul 08 12:29:58 <raster> that ways i always have a working uboot i can reflahs kernel and rootfsfrom
Jul 08 12:30:03 <Scythe|Bed> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZsps3bj6yE <-- I'm watching this video here and the interface is slow as a butt, a fast interface is a *must* for me, if I'm waiting for hardware I'm likely to rend said hardware into expensive grit
Jul 08 12:30:04 <raster> i never reflash uboot
Jul 08 12:30:06 <Ainulindale> Ok
Jul 08 12:30:08 <HauDyr> Zurga, if 900 is supported then buy that model it can do 900/1800/1900
Jul 08 12:30:10 <raster> i only reflahs kernel + rootfs
Jul 08 12:30:18 <Scythe|Bed> i'm using a four year old nokia 1100 at the moment because it's fast
Jul 08 12:30:19 <Ainulindale> I thought it was more of a thing to use to debug at the kernel level
Jul 08 12:30:22 <raster> i leave anythng below that well alone so i never need a debug board
Jul 08 12:30:28 <raster> frankly 99.9% of peolpe never need one
Jul 08 12:30:31 <raster> u ONLY need it if:P
Jul 08 12:30:45 <raster> 1. u are doing uboot and early hw bringup development
Jul 08 12:31:02 <Ainulindale> I don't think I have the necessary skills to delve into kernel development or uboot or whatever too low 
Jul 08 12:31:06 <raster> 2. if u do nasty-arse kernel development where u wantto be able to pause/stop and debug the kernel and ram outside of the kernel
Jul 08 12:31:21 <raster> and inspect why your kernel just mysteriously hangs solid or whateer
Jul 08 12:31:27 <Wander_w> dang... I want to do nasty-arse kernel development :(
Jul 08 12:31:28 <raster> u fdont NEED it for kernel dev
Jul 08 12:31:31 <raster> but it helps
Jul 08 12:31:38 <Ainulindale> I see, thanks for the answer
Jul 08 12:31:44 <raster> its not a necessity really for 99.9% of people
Jul 08 12:32:04 <raster> the debug board basically gives u jtag debug access
Jul 08 12:32:18 <Ainulindale> I would gladly offer to you some home roasted coffee for answering my question but hey, you're too far away :-)
Jul 08 12:32:18 <raster> in a very convenient and nice way
Jul 08 12:32:26 <raster> i wish all devices had such a nice debug board
Jul 08 12:32:28 <trickie> and it looks cool :)
Jul 08 12:32:40 <raster> but in reality
Jul 08 12:32:42 <raster> u wontneed it
Jul 08 12:32:51 <raster> personally i leave my kernel the fuck alone
Jul 08 12:32:59 <raster> i lik to just stick with screwing up userspace
Jul 08 12:33:00 <Wander_w> hmm.. don't know how to do JTAG debugging anyway... so I guess the debug board would be wasted on me
Jul 08 12:33:01 <Ainulindale> What I need right now in fact is a nice brush up on how to build a dbus server (for SHR)
Jul 08 12:33:03 <raster> thats fun enough as-is
Jul 08 12:33:04 <Ainulindale> Because I'm lost :-)
Jul 08 12:33:05 <raster> and keeps me busy
Jul 08 12:33:06 <raster> :)
Jul 08 12:33:23 <raster> dbus server?
Jul 08 12:33:30 <raster> or make a dbus hosted service?
Jul 08 12:33:36 <raster> ie offer something like hal
Jul 08 12:33:38 <raster> or networkmanager
Jul 08 12:33:40 <raster> etc.
Jul 08 12:33:42 <Ainulindale> I don't know dbus at all so it's something new for me
Jul 08 12:33:45 <Ainulindale> So whatever you say
Jul 08 12:33:49 <raster> hahahaha
Jul 08 12:33:52 <raster> what do you WANT to do?
Jul 08 12:34:09 <Ainulindale> For SHR we plan to do a wrapper for FSO primitives
Jul 08 12:34:16 <Wander_w> I believe there is just one DBus server per system (system as in openmoko/pc/whatever)
Jul 08 12:34:22 <raster> Ainulindale: what kind of wrapper?
Jul 08 12:34:29 <Ainulindale> Entrypoint : phonekit primitives, wrapped to use fso
Jul 08 12:34:32 <raster> u mean a library to handle talking dbus and just present a C api?
Jul 08 12:34:45 <Ainulindale> In order to be able to use OM 2007.2 apps on FSO
Jul 08 12:34:51 <raster> so instead of me sending my own dbus messages
Jul 08 12:34:53 <raster> i simply call
Jul 08 12:35:03 <raster> whateverlib_action_do(param, param2...);
Jul 08 12:35:08 <raster> and it does the dbus goop for me?
Jul 08 12:35:18 <raster> oooh
Jul 08 12:35:21 <Ainulindale> In fact we're trying to find some information 
Jul 08 12:35:22 <raster> the old gtk apps
Jul 08 12:35:24 <Ainulindale> Yep
Jul 08 12:35:28 <raster> u just can have them do dbus calls thesmelves
Jul 08 12:35:28 <Ainulindale> "old" :-)
Jul 08 12:35:31 <raster> ]its not hard
Jul 08 12:35:34 <Ainulindale> Yep it's not hard
Jul 08 12:35:35 <Ainulindale> But
Jul 08 12:35:45 <Ainulindale> We thought a nice and easy first step would be to do this wrapper
Jul 08 12:35:49 <raster> Om is sprouting dbus services like the plague
Jul 08 12:35:54 <Ainulindale> With this kind of wrapper we could use each and every app
Jul 08 12:36:00 <Ainulindale> Then port each app one by one
Jul 08 12:36:34 <Ainulindale> I don't know if it's a good idea but if it's not, you should talk with us ;-)
Jul 08 12:36:39 <raster> well beware
Jul 08 12:36:40 <raster> it depends
Jul 08 12:36:46 <raster> if u plan to tie the wrapper to glib
Jul 08 12:36:48 <raster> its not hard
Jul 08 12:36:51 <raster> if u dont
Jul 08 12:36:54 <raster> it may not be worth it
Jul 08 12:37:07 <Ainulindale> What do you mean by tie ? And why wouldn't it worh it ?
Jul 08 12:37:08 <raster> if itsonly for the gtk apps..
Jul 08 12:37:10 <raster> then it doesnt matter
Jul 08 12:37:22 <raster> u know what a mainloop is?
Jul 08 12:37:26 <Ainulindale> raster: first step is doing a wrapper in order to be able to use both OM and ASU apps
Jul 08 12:37:31 <Ainulindale> Yep
Jul 08 12:37:51 <raster> ok
Jul 08 12:37:54 <raster> glib has a mainloop
Jul 08 12:37:57 <raster> qt has one
Jul 08 12:37:58 <raster> efl has one
Jul 08 12:38:05 <raster> they  are separate
Jul 08 12:38:11 <Ainulindale> So more power consumption ?
Jul 08 12:38:16 <raster> if u make a lib u can tie it to a main loop
Jul 08 12:38:18 <raster> no
Jul 08 12:38:20 <raster> not more
Jul 08 12:38:24 <raster> every apps has a mainloop
Jul 08 12:38:27 <raster> some apps just do their own
Jul 08 12:38:35 <raster> pretty much every network serverhas its own loop
Jul 08 12:38:35 <Ainulindale> So I didn't understand what was your point :-)
Jul 08 12:38:37 <raster> a select() thing
Jul 08 12:38:45 <raster> the problem is
Jul 08 12:38:50 <raster> if u want to tie an api to a mainloop
Jul 08 12:39:03 <raster> u will be using the mainloops timers, file descriptor handling and wakups
Jul 08 12:39:07 <raster> callback system etc.
Jul 08 12:39:17 <raster> so u require the app to use that mainloop to use the lib
Jul 08 12:39:30 <raster> as mainloops are pretty much mututally-exclusive
Jul 08 12:39:39 <raster> if u alreayd use another mainloop
Jul 08 12:39:46 <raster> u are sol
Jul 08 12:39:52 <raster> nb
Jul 08 12:39:57 <Ainulindale> Well it looks as if my definition of mainloop isn't the same as youyrs
Jul 08 12:39:59 <Ainulindale> -y
Jul 08 12:40:00 <raster> mainloops have nothnig to do with power consumption
Jul 08 12:40:09 <raster> they basically organise the main flop of events in an app
Jul 08 12:40:14 <raster> they sit and wait for a timeout of some sort
Jul 08 12:40:24 <Ainulindale> Or a signal or anything
Jul 08 12:40:25 <raster> or an event to com in (generally data coming down a file descriptor)
Jul 08 12:40:39 <Ainulindale> I can't see your point
Jul 08 12:40:47 <Ainulindale> If, for example
Jul 08 12:40:49 <raster> every app pretty much needs one unless u want to sit in a contiuall "run using 100% cpu and always poll for stuff" mode
Jul 08 12:40:55 <raster> whihc actually a lot of games do
Jul 08 12:40:58 <Ainulindale> My UI X waits for a user event in order to, say, call a number
Jul 08 12:40:58 <raster> and THAT chews power
Jul 08 12:41:03 <raster> as u just sit andchew cpu all the time
Jul 08 12:41:18 <Ainulindale> What's the problem with using a wrapper to do the "call" action ?
Jul 08 12:41:22 <raster> so it depends how u do the wrapper
Jul 08 12:41:29 <raster> as it may tie itself toa given mainloop
Jul 08 12:41:31 <raster> eg there is edbus
Jul 08 12:41:43 <raster> that is a wrapper to bind libdbus and ecore's mainloop
Jul 08 12:41:53 <raster> theres a libgdbus that ties libdbus and glib together
Jul 08 12:42:02 <raster> i am sure others exist too
Jul 08 12:42:11 <raster> the idea is so u can call a dbus call and notBLOCK and wait for a reply
Jul 08 12:42:14 <Ainulindale> Hmmm seriously I can't see what you're saying, I thought dbus could be called within pretty much everything without bothering about it
Jul 08 12:42:19 <raster> u can go on processing doing other things
Jul 08 12:42:26 <raster> and later on the rply comes in asyncronously
Jul 08 12:42:29 <raster> and u handle it then
Jul 08 12:42:36 <raster> and yes
Jul 08 12:42:39 <raster> dbus can be called
Jul 08 12:42:50 <raster> the problem is how do u marshall the replies back to the calling code?
Jul 08 12:42:54 <raster> do u use callbacks?
Jul 08 12:43:02 <raster> how do you call them?
Jul 08 12:43:07 <raster> how do u know when the rply has come in
Jul 08 12:43:08 <Ainulindale> We intended to act as if we were the old libs of OM 2007.2
Jul 08 12:43:09 <raster> or a dbus signal?
Jul 08 12:43:16 <Ainulindale> But instead, replacing the primitive to call FSO new libs
Jul 08 12:43:21 <Ainulindale> +s
Jul 08 12:43:22 <raster> my suggestons
Jul 08 12:43:25 <raster> before doing that
Jul 08 12:43:31 <raster> do some dbus development
Jul 08 12:43:32 <Ainulindale> In order to be able not to change anything in the original app
Jul 08 12:43:37 <raster> just write stuff that uses dbus
Jul 08 12:43:42 <raster> for fun
Jul 08 12:43:43 <raster> or games
Jul 08 12:43:46 <raster> learn how it works
Jul 08 12:43:54 <Ainulindale> That's what I was trying to do ;-)
Jul 08 12:43:54 <raster> then u'll be in a good position to do this
Jul 08 12:43:55 <raster> :)
Jul 08 12:44:14 <ecraven> asu will be qt, not gnome, right?
Jul 08 12:44:15 <Ainulindale> But if we're not mistaken for SHR
Jul 08 12:45:04 <Ainulindale> If we manage to present a wrapper with the same primitives than old OM, and instead of calling inner OM libs, we call FSO's, it shouldn't need that much development
Jul 08 12:45:05 <ebbe> ecraven: ASU is based on qt, but can run gtk programmes as well
Jul 08 12:45:09 <Ainulindale> Just the mentioned wrapper
Jul 08 12:45:22 <ecraven> does anyone have ASU running on an FR?
Jul 08 12:45:53 <ebbe> ecraven: I've tried it on gta01
Jul 08 12:49:09 <raster> ebbe: please read the mailing lists
Jul 08 12:49:13 <raster> all this "based on qt"
Jul 08 12:49:18 <raster> "based on gnome" stuff
Jul 08 12:49:34 <Scythe|Bed> http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/8193/
Jul 08 12:49:35 <raster> is a fundamental misunderstanding of software and unix/linux/x11
Jul 08 12:49:42 <Scythe|Bed> one of these would go great with a freerunner
Jul 08 12:49:46 <raster> its ALL based on x11
Jul 08 12:49:47 <raster> all of it
Jul 08 12:49:48 <Scythe|Bed> provided drivers exist
Jul 08 12:49:49 <raster> so everything orks
Jul 08 12:49:55 <raster> i've been over this on email
Jul 08 12:49:59 <Scythe|Bed> though I assume there's a bluetooth keyboard standard
Jul 08 12:50:20 <raster> yay
Jul 08 12:50:22 <raster> more pocket lint
Jul 08 12:50:29 <ebbe> raster: Yes, okay. It's based on the qtopia distribution then?
Jul 08 12:50:42 <raster> no 
Jul 08 12:50:53 <raster> it contains qt
Jul 08 12:50:56 <raster> it co9ntains gtk
Jul 08 12:50:59 <raster> it contains efl
Jul 08 12:51:12 <raster> it contains an xserver and runs it by default
Jul 08 12:51:23 <raster> it runs a window manager under x (like pretty much all x environments do)
Jul 08 12:51:30 <raster> ]its just like your desktop
Jul 08 12:51:31 <ebbe> But didn't they sort of start with qtopia?
Jul 08 12:51:34 <raster> u can run firefox
Jul 08 12:51:36 <raster> and konqueror
Jul 08 12:51:39 <ebbe> I know
Jul 08 12:51:46 <raster> and u can run evolution
Jul 08 12:51:49 <raster> no it didnt
Jul 08 12:51:54 <raster> qtopia was ported back to x11
Jul 08 12:52:01 <raster> so it isnt "its own qt only world"
Jul 08 12:52:40 <ebbe> Well, I didn't really say that, did I?
Jul 08 12:53:05 <fredrin> lol, qt vs gtk vs elf vs curses vs cli vs tk
Jul 08 12:53:59 <Scythe|Bed> so how snappy is the default openmoko interface?
Jul 08 12:53:59 <leinir> fredrin: Indeed - when there's not actually any vs to start with :)
Jul 08 12:54:11 <fredrin> leinir: true
Jul 08 12:54:13 <CVirus> mohamed: hey ma
Jul 08 12:54:15 <CVirus> man*
Jul 08 12:54:47 <mohamed> CVirus: hello :)
Jul 08 12:54:53 <mohamed> CVirus: how are you ?
Jul 08 12:54:58 <CVirus> mohamed: not bad .. you ?
Jul 08 12:55:02 <CVirus> mohamed: got your FR yet ?
Jul 08 12:55:15 <mohamed> CVirus: fine, FR ?
Jul 08 12:55:22 <CVirus> FreeRunner
Jul 08 12:55:25 <Scythe|Bed> i imagine someone'll port android to the freerunner in a few minutes
Jul 08 12:55:46 <CVirus> fuck Android
Jul 08 12:55:47 <CVirus> :-)
Jul 08 12:55:53 <mohamed> CVirus: ah, no, but I think it will take the same amount of time as neo 1973
Jul 08 12:55:55 <ebbe> Scythe|Bed: How? It isn't open source
Jul 08 12:56:11 <Scythe|Bed> i was under the impression that it was
Jul 08 12:56:18 <Scythe|Bed> at least partially
Jul 08 12:56:18 <ebbe> The SDK is
Jul 08 12:56:21 <ecraven> is there an opkg repository that has scummvm??
Jul 08 12:56:37 <mohamed> CVirus: heard about JNode ?
Jul 08 12:56:42 <ebbe> ecraven: Yes
Jul 08 12:56:50 <CVirus> mohamed: ope
Jul 08 12:57:03 <CVirus> nope*
Jul 08 12:57:41 <ebbe> ecraven: But can't find it right now.. Search the wiki for different repositories
Jul 08 12:58:06 <mohamed> CVirus: http://www.jnode.org/node/774 a Java OS that works on x86, but I'll try to port it on Neo 1973
Jul 08 12:58:52 <raster> oh god
Jul 08 12:58:54 <raster> java os
Jul 08 12:58:55 <raster> help
Jul 08 12:58:57 * raster runs
Jul 08 12:59:08 <CVirus> I think I'm good at java and can help with that uselessness
Jul 08 12:59:34 <KenSentMe> I get this error when running gconftool: http://paste.ubuntu.com/25919/ Should i put dbus-launch in front? I did that without errors, but my interface didnt change either
Jul 08 13:02:06 <ebbe> KenSentMe: It's because you are running it through ssh. It must be from the device
Jul 08 13:02:17 <ebbe> Or at least I don't know how else to do it
Jul 08 13:02:56 <KenSentMe> ebbe, ah, ok. I tried that, but i can't enter a /  . It's not on the numeric keyboard. Is there a qwerty keyboard as well?
Jul 08 13:03:12 <ebbe> Yes, somewhere..
Jul 08 13:03:33 <ebbe> I usually make a shell-script i execute
Jul 08 13:04:26 <ebbe> Or use my bluetooth-keyboard ;D
Jul 08 13:05:00 <Scythe|Bed> can someone that's actually used a freerunner answer me this: how quick is the interface in its current form?
Jul 08 13:05:19 <Scythe|Bed> and also, does the sms writing have predictive text? or a qwerty keyboard?
Jul 08 13:05:38 * Danker will try to build openmoko for qemu...
Jul 08 13:08:07 <bobkare> Scythe|Bed: at least for the latest openmoko build (not qtopia or any of the other ones) there is no predictive text and there isn't (or at least I haven't found) any other keyboard
Jul 08 13:08:33 <bobkare> Scythe|Bed: the interface is pretty fast, program launches can take some time
Jul 08 13:08:58 <leinir> Well, predictive text with the qwerty input also seems a little funny :)
Jul 08 13:09:09 <Scythe|Bed> i pick up the phone, how long does it take to get to a point at which I can write an sms, assuming 100% operator efficiency
Jul 08 13:09:53 <LoneTech> Dasher provides an interesting variant of predictive input. amd64 build uses too much memory, but that's probably because of the large pointers.
Jul 08 13:10:08 <bobkare> Scythe|Bed: you mean included booting it up? you don't want to know... :P
Jul 08 13:10:16 <leinir> Yes, i'm very interested in Dasher :)
Jul 08 13:10:18 <Scythe|Bed> not including boot
Jul 08 13:10:20 <SpeedEvil> dasher requires _way_ too many resources though - but not CPU.
Jul 08 13:10:48 <SpeedEvil> It requires the user to stare at it constantly, and be inputting constantly, and a large aount of screen.
Jul 08 13:10:59 <leinir> Well, i can live with that :)
Jul 08 13:11:01 <raster> dasher is useless
Jul 08 13:11:08 <SpeedEvil> Dasher is not useless.
Jul 08 13:11:12 <raster> its a "cool bizarre idea"
Jul 08 13:11:18 <SpeedEvil> Dasher is useless - largely for this app.
Jul 08 13:11:20 <raster> but in practical terms its useless
Jul 08 13:11:23 <LoneTech> I wouldn't say useless, I'd say a solution to a different problem
Jul 08 13:11:28 <raster> screeen space usage
Jul 08 13:11:31 <raster> the reasons u mentioned
Jul 08 13:11:37 <LoneTech> for people whose only option is an eyetracker, it's useful
Jul 08 13:11:46 <leinir> raster: Well, for what it was designed, yes, it's useful - it's very easy to use for people who... yeah, what LoneTech said ;)
Jul 08 13:11:51 <raster> the learning curve (compared to a corrective qwerty keyboard - dasher relies on dictionary correction/augmentation anyway)
Jul 08 13:11:52 <raster> etc.
Jul 08 13:12:05 <bobkare> Scythe|Bed: i haven't timed it or anything but it would be pretty fast, especially as long as you never close the sms app
Jul 08 13:12:11 <raster> LoneTech: if the freerunner had an eyetracker... it might be useful
Jul 08 13:12:12 <raster> :)
Jul 08 13:12:22 <Pyrasi> morning all 
Jul 08 13:12:26 <raster> but for a touchscreen input method on a 2.8" screen...
Jul 08 13:12:27 <raster> no
Jul 08 13:12:28 <raster> :)
Jul 08 13:12:29 <HauDyr> morning
Jul 08 13:12:42 <Pyrasi> are you talking about dasher? 
Jul 08 13:12:55 <LoneTech> I'd like to see something like quikwriting. It's positionable, fairly compact, so one could pop it up when you put the stylus in a text field
Jul 08 13:13:11 <raster> ya
Jul 08 13:13:16 <Pyrasi> i really liked quikwriting as well 
Jul 08 13:13:21 <Pyrasi> i think there is a project open for it 
Jul 08 13:13:50 <raster> right now qtopia's corrective keyboard style (and the one in asu that is just a mimick of that) is about the best i've used/seen
Jul 08 13:13:52 <Pyrasi> not sure if anyone is still working on it...but it is on the project page 
Jul 08 13:13:54 <raster> its familiar (qwerty)
Jul 08 13:13:59 <raster> simple (just tap on the key)
Jul 08 13:13:59 <leinir> raster: Yeah, the predictive qwerty keyboard is very yummy :)
Jul 08 13:14:16 <raster> can handle a lot of error - ie usable with fingers (given a good enough dictionary)
Jul 08 13:14:17 <Ainulindale> but azerty's better :-p
Jul 08 13:14:32 <LoneTech> essentially like T9 for qwerty, with fuzziness on which key you meant?
Jul 08 13:14:37 * LoneTech hasn't tried it
Jul 08 13:14:38 <raster> requires no special learning to use beyond learning slide right is "space/next word"
Jul 08 13:14:45 <raster> slide down == enter/return/newline
Jul 08 13:14:53 <raster> slide up == change keyboard layour
Jul 08 13:14:58 <raster> and slide left == backspace
Jul 08 13:15:03 <Danker> Which one is better for opensource project hosting - code.google.com or sourceforge?
Jul 08 13:15:11 <raster> LoneTech:  yes.
Jul 08 13:15:15 <raster> a bit like t9
Jul 08 13:15:15 <LoneTech> thanks
Jul 08 13:15:22 <raster> but not 1 button cntains 3 or 4 chars
Jul 08 13:15:26 * Danker personaly thinks that google is better and more promising....
Jul 08 13:15:27 <raster> each char has a location
Jul 08 13:15:37 <Pyrasi> does goggle use svn? 
Jul 08 13:15:42 <raster> but u assume any key within N pixels radius of where u press may also be a target
Jul 08 13:15:51 <raster> with distance frm the press point decreasing probability
Jul 08 13:15:57 <raster> so its better than t9
Jul 08 13:16:04 <LoneTech> I get the concept
Jul 08 13:16:05 <raster> as t9 has no probability deection ability
Jul 08 13:16:12 <raster> then combine with dictonary lookup
Jul 08 13:16:21 <raster> and dictionary frequency tables
Jul 08 13:16:30 <raster> (often used words vs less often used ones)
Jul 08 13:16:34 <raster> and a corrective buffer
Jul 08 13:16:41 <raster> and the ability to select from one of the corrections
Jul 08 13:16:52 <raster> (if the default one it suggests isnt what u wanted)
Jul 08 13:16:59 <raster> and it works both as a stylus keyboard
Jul 08 13:17:01 <raster> and a fingerone
Jul 08 13:17:06 <raster> and its simple
Jul 08 13:17:22 <Danker> Pyrasi: yes
Jul 08 13:17:38 <LoneTech> yep, sounds quite good. I'll have to wait months to really try it though
Jul 08 13:18:12 <leinir> Why so? :)
Jul 08 13:18:32 <LoneTech> I'm not in the first batch of deliveries
Jul 08 13:19:02 <leinir> Second batch?
Jul 08 13:19:08 <LoneTech> with luck, maybe.
Jul 08 13:19:27 <Pyrasi> oh...have they already shipped the first batch? 
Jul 08 13:19:32 <leinir> That's the 25th, and then ASU is ready for testing in the beginning of August, yeah? :)
Jul 08 13:19:37 <leinir> Pyrasi: Well yes :)
Jul 08 13:19:48 <leinir> Not following the community list i take it? ;)
Jul 08 13:19:51 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * re3d9909d4673 10/otapi/ (4 files in 2 dirs): 
Jul 08 13:19:51 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: OTAPI: document org.freesmartphone.GSM.Network.{Get|Enable|Set}CallForwarding()
Jul 08 13:19:51 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: move call identification API into .Network as well and document.
Jul 08 13:19:59 <Pyrasi> we are still waiting on shipping confirmation for our 10 pack as well. 
Jul 08 13:20:16 <SpeedEvil> The fundamental problem with probability detection is that you can't use ti blind.
Jul 08 13:20:28 <Pyrasi> haha...I'm actually reading back through the archives right now 
Jul 08 13:20:42 <raster> SpeedEvil: yup
Jul 08 13:20:48 <Pyrasi> I've been busy with a racquetball injury the past few days >< 
Jul 08 13:20:49 <SpeedEvil> In that with t9, you can simply learn sequences, and use it blind
Jul 08 13:20:55 <raster> SpeedEvil: but with any keyboard that small unless its physical buttons
Jul 08 13:21:00 <raster> so u can tactily know what u press
Jul 08 13:21:13 <raster> u cant do anything but be looking at it
Jul 08 13:21:26 <SpeedEvil> raster: I disagree - it's quite possible to do 10 buttons on finger position.
Jul 08 13:21:27 <raster> its a bi-product of no tactile feedback
Jul 08 13:21:34 <raster> (no ability to feel where the buttons are)
Jul 08 13:21:53 <ecraven> can anyone describe the way the accelerometers work to me? i get three values, x, y and z. what are they?
Jul 08 13:22:02 <Scythe|Bed> ?
Jul 08 13:22:11 <SpeedEvil> raster: yeah - we need a variable flexibility high resolution display with the ability to do nice tactile buttons under software control.
Jul 08 13:22:12 <Scythe|Bed> Gs along that axis, i'd imagine
Jul 08 13:22:17 <SpeedEvil> acra: 'down'
Jul 08 13:22:20 <Scythe|Bed> sit it flat on a table and you'd see 0, 0, -1
Jul 08 13:22:24 <SpeedEvil> ecraven: the 'down axis'
Jul 08 13:22:28 <raster> u could do slide direction ok-sih
Jul 08 13:22:29 <raster> "blind"
Jul 08 13:22:36 <raster> but at best u'd get 8 directiosn
Jul 08 13:22:42 <raster> tat still only 8 buttons as such
Jul 08 13:22:50 <raster> anything after that is a combination of buttons
Jul 08 13:22:53 <raster> so doing it blind
Jul 08 13:22:54 <SpeedEvil> ecraven: three numbers that add up to a vector of unit size.
Jul 08 13:22:57 <ecraven> flat on the table i see: x: 18/36, y: -18/36, z: 936
Jul 08 13:22:58 <raster> u need to do several buttons in a row
Jul 08 13:22:59 <Scythe|Bed> typing using motion control, high level of fail
Jul 08 13:23:06 <SpeedEvil> ecraven: google openmoko acceleroeter fundamentals
Jul 08 13:23:10 <raster> and either u are always needing to do several presses or strokes for 1 "key"
Jul 08 13:23:15 <raster> or u speed it up with guessing
Jul 08 13:23:21 <raster> then u need ot be paying attention toit
Jul 08 13:23:23 <SpeedEvil> ecraven: they are measurements of 16 milligee
Jul 08 13:23:31 <raster> imho i'll pay the price of needing to look at my screnand correct it
Jul 08 13:23:45 <SpeedEvil> ecraven: that's actually scaled it looks like
Jul 08 13:24:11 <ecraven> SpeedEvil: my main question is, is there a way to find out whether the neo is "landscape" or "portrait"? i'm guessing not, because i don't have any fixed reference
Jul 08 13:24:43 <Pyrasi> you should be able to tell where the pull of gravity is on the accells and tell that way 
Jul 08 13:24:45 <SpeedEvil> ecraven: so you see an acceleration of - in your case - thirdroot(24^2+24^2+936^2)
Jul 08 13:24:46 <Scythe|Bed> yep, compare which is bigger, your Y or Z
Jul 08 13:25:25 <Scythe|Bed> well, depends on how the openmoko's axes are aligned
Jul 08 13:25:36 <Scythe|Bed> plural of axis? axes?
Jul 08 13:25:42 <LoneTech> SpeedEvil: where did you get third root from?
Jul 08 13:25:50 <ecraven> but the alignment is absolute (to the earth), not relative to me, is it?
Jul 08 13:25:51 <SpeedEvil> LoneTech: I've just woken up
Jul 08 13:25:56 <SpeedEvil> ecraven: no
Jul 08 13:25:57 <LoneTech> good morning
Jul 08 13:26:10 <SpeedEvil> ecraven: when it's stationary, you get the direction that down points relative tot he case
Jul 08 13:26:24 <Scythe|Bedzor> <ecraven> flat on the table i see: x: 18/36, y: -18/36, z: 936
Jul 08 13:26:40 <Scythe|Bedzor> i'm guessing positive Z is out the back of the case
Jul 08 13:26:51 <Scythe|Bedzor> -Z is normal to the screen
Jul 08 13:27:27 <ecraven> my point is, if i move around the neo, it doesn't know, so it can't switch to landscape
Jul 08 13:27:39 <ecraven> so, if i pick it up, it can't know whether i want landscape or portrait
Jul 08 13:27:47 <SpeedEvil> ecraven: tiw a weight to your neo on a string
Jul 08 13:28:00 <HauDyr> SpeedEvil, what about when you rotate cant you  that up?
Jul 08 13:28:03 <SpeedEvil> acr: the string points in various directions according to which way you hold it.
Jul 08 13:28:04 <Scythe|Bedzor> but it can tell which direction is down, the short edge or the long edge
Jul 08 13:28:04 <ebbe> ecraven: What does it say when you hold it still in landscape and in portrait?
Jul 08 13:28:10 <HauDyr> SpeedEvil, what about when you rotate cant you  measure that?
Jul 08 13:28:13 <LoneTech> ecraven: if you pick it up, unless you hold it perfectly level. it can see which way gravity pulls.
Jul 08 13:28:23 <SpeedEvil> ecraven: the Z/Y/X report on the orientation of that string
Jul 08 13:28:35 <SpeedEvil> LoneTech: it has three accels
Jul 08 13:28:55 <SpeedEvil> You ignore the two accels - they are a silly idea. Average the x/y/z axes
Jul 08 13:28:59 <Scythe|Bedzor> google "unit vector" and come back
Jul 08 13:29:11 <Scythe|Bedzor> because i won't be here!
Jul 08 13:29:12 <Scythe|Bedzor> tehehe
Jul 08 13:29:14 * Scythe|Bedzor goes to bed
Jul 08 13:29:14 <ecraven> LoneTech: ah, so i can see the "tilt"
Jul 08 13:29:24 <SpeedEvil> ecraven: with the unit stationary, yes
Jul 08 13:29:36 <SpeedEvil> ecraven: you can't howwever measure rotation about the 'string'
Jul 08 13:30:45 <SpeedEvil> ecraven: see "http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Technical:Accelerometer_Fundamentals
Jul 08 13:31:22 * SpeedEvil wishes the best accels were a couple of orders of magnitude cheaper.
Jul 08 13:32:43 * Dave hisses
Jul 08 13:33:35 * leinir offers Dave pettings to calm him down? ;)
Jul 08 13:33:55 <Dave> :D
Jul 08 13:33:57 * Dave purrs
Jul 08 13:34:06 <Dave> =^_^=
Jul 08 13:34:41 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r5f96486d693a 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/ (gsm/const.py modems/abstract/mediator.py objects.py): ogsmd: implement org.freesmartphone.GSM.Network.{Set|Get}CallingIdentification
Jul 08 13:35:06 * Dave offers leinir doughnuts and crullers in return
Jul 08 13:35:14 <kdubois> are the gps drivers functional?
Jul 08 13:35:53 * leinir pets Dave, and happily accepts the offered nommish things :)
Jul 08 13:36:11 <Dave> =D
Jul 08 13:37:58 <SpeedEvil> kdubois: there are no drivers
Jul 08 13:38:04 <SpeedEvil> kdubois: you read serial N?MEA
Jul 08 13:38:07 <SpeedEvil> kdubois: that's it
Jul 08 13:38:17 <SpeedEvil> kdubois: for Freerunner
Jul 08 13:38:33 <kdubois> ohh, its hooked up to a serial bus? that seems odd
Jul 08 13:38:48 <Danker> Maybe someone here is responsible for bugs in make process?
Jul 08 13:38:57 <SpeedEvil> Danker: yes. 
Jul 08 13:39:00 <Danker> I have a fix for one when compilings
Jul 08 13:39:10 <SpeedEvil> Danker: when you find the someone inducing the bugs, BURN THEM!
Jul 08 13:39:12 <Danker> compiling for qemu
Jul 08 13:39:12 <pyknite> hi... someone know a lib or something else to manage wifi (list ap,...) with c++
Jul 08 13:39:16 <SpeedEvil> Or at least submit patches.
Jul 08 13:40:00 <pyknite> i search on the web, but i found nothing :(
Jul 08 13:40:08 <Danker> I will report here.... :)
Jul 08 13:40:10 <Danker> openmoko/flash.sh: line 156: kill: (-18843) - No such process
Jul 08 13:40:10 <Danker> ( cd build/qemu && /sbin/mkdosfs -C -F 32 -v openmoko/openmoko-sd.image 500000 )
Jul 08 13:40:21 <Danker> In gentoo system mkdosfs is in /usr/sbin/
Jul 08 13:40:33 <Danker> Why just not set the PATH variable?
Jul 08 13:40:47 <SpeedEvil> pyknite: iwlist is on there I thought
Jul 08 13:41:18 <pyknite> SpeedEvil: I know iwlist.. but i need something that i can use in a c++ program (without call system() )
Jul 08 13:41:45 <SpeedEvil> pyknite: so examine iwlist source
Jul 08 13:41:57 <LoneTech> pyknite: dunno about libs, but the program that does that sort of work is wpa_supplicant. network-manager does higher level policy usually.
Jul 08 13:42:33 <pyknite> SpeedEvil: hum... a little complex for me :(
Jul 08 13:42:51 <pyknite> LoneTech: sur? no lib? :(
Jul 08 13:43:00 <Dave> Does the GTA02 have any temp sensors onboard?
Jul 08 13:43:06 <SpeedEvil> Daviey: no
Jul 08 13:43:12 <SpeedEvil> Dave: actually, maybe yes
Jul 08 13:43:13 <Dave> Aw, alright :]
Jul 08 13:43:18 <Dave> Eh?
Jul 08 13:43:24 <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure if the smart battery has one
Jul 08 13:43:27 <SpeedEvil> Dave: why?
Jul 08 13:43:37 <LoneTech> I expect the battery has a rudimentary sensor for safety, but wouldn't expect to be able to read its value.
Jul 08 13:43:37 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03raster * r4515 10/developers/raster/: add raster dir
Jul 08 13:43:37 <Dave> Evil scheming and plotting!
Jul 08 13:43:40 <Dave> >:)
Jul 08 13:43:47 <Dave> Heh, yeah right.
Jul 08 13:43:52 <SpeedEvil> LoneTech: the previous battery you could
Jul 08 13:43:54 <Dave> I guess I could always add one.
Jul 08 13:43:59 * raster plots a scheme evilly 
Jul 08 13:44:00 <LoneTech> ok
Jul 08 13:44:02 <Dave> Speedevil, sounds naughty.
Jul 08 13:44:08 <Dave> Excellent, raster!
Jul 08 13:46:08 <SpeedEvil> raster: would this be a way to include a medium format 16MP camera in GTA03 schematic without anyone noticing?
Jul 08 13:46:32 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r711370664e74 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade assassin to 194 for GUI changed as requested by tick
Jul 08 13:46:32 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r1b1f024f4630 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [assassin-thumbnail] Add tick's assassin-thumbnail recipe
Jul 08 13:46:33 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rcb6cc237a03e 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-feed.bb: [openmoko feed] Add assassin-thumbnail to the openmoko feed
Jul 08 13:47:40 <ecraven> if i rotate the display, things break.
Jul 08 13:48:02 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03raster * r4516 10/developers/raster/ompower/ (13 files in 2 dirs): add ompower...
Jul 08 13:48:07 <raster> Dave: i'm always nortie!
Jul 08 13:48:16 <SpeedEvil> ecraven: yes, they do.
Jul 08 13:48:22 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rdf5566908205 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade assassin to 194 for GUI changed as requested by tick
Jul 08 13:48:22 <raster> SpeedEvil:  16mp! HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
Jul 08 13:48:22 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r8fb3b77b0608 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [assassin-thumbnail] Add tick's assassin-thumbnail recipe
Jul 08 13:48:23 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * ra58cb9499485 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-feed.bb: [openmoko feed] Add assassin-thumbnail to the openmoko feed
Jul 08 13:48:52 * SpeedEvil notes that was not a comment that 16MP cameras will be $9 by then.
Jul 08 13:49:19 <HauDyr> SpeedEvil, if its a hasselblad chip its ok
Jul 08 13:49:56 <ecraven> SpeedEvil: why ;)
Jul 08 13:49:58 * Scythe|Bedzor ponders putting off buying a freerunner until rev 3 of the hardware
Jul 08 13:50:10 <ecraven> mainly, why does the touchscreen not work correctly any longer?
Jul 08 13:50:16 <ecraven> the rest seems mostly ok
Jul 08 13:50:23 <Ainulindale> On qemu ?
Jul 08 13:50:27 <HauDyr> Scythe|Bedzor, if you can wait 1/2 - 1 year then ok
Jul 08 13:50:40 <ecraven> the hardware seems ok so far
Jul 08 13:50:48 <ecraven> apart from gps problems
Jul 08 13:50:55 <Ainulindale> Scythe|Bedzor: this is more a problem of software than hardware
Jul 08 13:51:05 <Scythe|Bedzor> i'm in no hurry for a newphone, my old nokia 1100 is humming along just dandy
Jul 08 13:51:11 <bobkare> Heh, I'd like to see anything with a medium format lens introduced as a "phone"
Jul 08 13:51:42 <Dave> Ainulindale :p
Jul 08 13:51:58 <Ainulindale> Dave: Did I say something funny ? :-)
Jul 08 13:52:04 <HauDyr> Scythe|Bedzor, if you wait for a nokia to break then you will wait for a LOONG time :-)
Jul 08 13:52:10 <SpeedEvil> bobkare: to be serious for a moment - I'd like a proper open-source camera.
Jul 08 13:52:11 <opendeep> Any body using python to develop applications in moko?
Jul 08 13:52:19 <Dave> Of course!
Jul 08 13:52:23 <ecraven> opendeep: i played around with one ;)
Jul 08 13:52:23 <Dave> Speedevil in particular :D
Jul 08 13:52:28 <Dave> moko moko moko
Jul 08 13:52:31 <SpeedEvil> opendeep: search the wiki for python
Jul 08 13:52:37 * Dave hisses at ecraven
Jul 08 13:52:52 <ecraven> works nice, i modified the led/wireless/accelerometer application 
Jul 08 13:52:53 <bobkare> SpeedEvil: Yeah, that would be cool
Jul 08 13:53:02 <Ainulindale> Ok guys, who took Dave's pills ?
Jul 08 13:53:10 <SpeedEvil> The frog pills?
Jul 08 13:53:15 <Ainulindale> :-)
Jul 08 13:53:27 <Dave> Pills?
Jul 08 13:53:30 <Ainulindale> SpeedEvil: You read too much pratchett
Jul 08 13:53:31 <Tuju> btw, pulster webshop doesn't work with KDE konqueror
Jul 08 13:53:33 <SpeedEvil> The dried frog pills.
Jul 08 13:53:37 * Dave throws doughnuts at Ainulindale
Jul 08 13:53:45 <Ainulindale> Good for me I'm hungry
Jul 08 13:53:49 <Dave> :D
Jul 08 13:53:52 <HauDyr> Bursur!!
Jul 08 13:53:56 <Dave> Everybody wins!
Jul 08 13:53:58 <Ainulindale> And as I clean my espresso machine, no coffee to drink right now
Jul 08 13:54:02 <Ainulindale> So no food
Jul 08 13:54:15 <bobkare> SpeedEvil: Btw I'm going to play with tethered shooting like thing with gphoto2 when I get my host-mode-capable y-cable
Jul 08 13:54:33 <Dave> NoFood4U!
Jul 08 13:54:38 <SpeedEvil> bobkare: I'm currently making a camera that I hope I can add bluetooth to.
Jul 08 13:55:15 <Dave> Sweet!
Jul 08 13:55:23 <bobkare> SpeedEvil: Cool, but something tells me you won't be competing with my Nikon D40 with a couple of lenses :)
Jul 08 13:55:29 <SpeedEvil> bobkare: only a couple of MP though - it's aimed at being really tiny and robust.
Jul 08 13:55:29 <Dave> Oh, that reminds me, I need to pick up a cute Bluetooth keyboard.
Jul 08 13:55:35 <Dave> bobkare :P
Jul 08 13:55:51 <Dave> sssh
Jul 08 13:56:07 <SpeedEvil> bobkare: you drop it down the stairs, and you think "Oh bugger, I'm going to have to walk down and get it", not "Oh Noes!"
Jul 08 13:56:25 <bobkare> Cool
Jul 08 13:56:35 <Wander_w> with AA baterries?
Jul 08 13:56:38 <SpeedEvil> I'm betting you won't do that with the D40.
Jul 08 13:56:54 <SpeedEvil> Wander_w: no - it's about the size of an 2/3C battery
Jul 08 13:57:02 <bobkare> Though mine is insured so it's at least only "Oh bugger, will have to go to the shop to replace it"
Jul 08 13:57:03 <SpeedEvil> Wander_w: maybe a bit thinner
Jul 08 13:57:24 <cozub> I've got a little off-topic question, but hearing BT here... I'm a bluetooth noob. Should I watch out when buying a USB BT dongle for my PC, or would just about anything work well under linux?
Jul 08 13:57:41 <Wander_w> SpeedEvil: 2/3C batteries > AA battery... so an AA battery should fit?
Jul 08 13:58:04 <Wander_w> cozub: just about anything I've tried works
Jul 08 13:58:09 <cozub> Wander_w: thX
Jul 08 13:58:19 <cozub> I plan to finally play with BT when my Free Runner arrives :)
Jul 08 13:58:42 <Dave> Aftermarket Moko Modifications!
Jul 08 13:59:05 <SpeedEvil> Wander_w: no - the total size is about 15*20*30mm
Jul 08 13:59:50 <Wander_w> SpeedEvil: cool, that's pretty                              tiny
Jul 08 14:00:08 <Wander_w> SpeedEvil: with what do you make it, can I buy one?
Jul 08 14:00:23 <SpeedEvil> Wander_w: various sorts of cheese.
Jul 08 14:00:25 <Sup3rkiddo> hi all, anyone have about 100kb online diskspace, would be uber-awesome if someone could host my ipk for a while until my unixpod account comes back online
Jul 08 14:00:36 <SpeedEvil> Wander_w: and it's not built yet. I do plan on selling them.
Jul 08 14:01:02 <Aleoi> is there any command in the MokoMakeFile, which can download all sources into my local machine before compiling?
Jul 08 14:01:02 <ecraven> how can i write to the text field in the upper left corner (where it says "registering...") from python?
Jul 08 14:01:33 <Wander_w> SpeedEvil: hmm.. I do not want a camera made out of cheese
Jul 08 14:02:01 <Wander_w> Sup3rkiddo: what's an ipk?
Jul 08 14:02:04 <Dave> oh snaps
Jul 08 14:02:06 <Aleoi> downloading is really time consuming due to my poor network~
Jul 08 14:02:11 <Dave> Wander, a package.
Jul 08 14:02:20 <bobkare> SpeedEvil: have you decided on the imaging chip? if so, how does it respond to high-contrast scenes? also rapidly changing light?
Jul 08 14:02:30 <Wander_w> Sup3rkiddo: ok, what kind of package?
Jul 08 14:02:33 <Sup3rkiddo> Wander_w, its the package format for opkg
Jul 08 14:02:33 <Dave> ccd bbq?
Jul 08 14:02:38 <raster> i want a camera made of lollipops
Jul 08 14:02:49 <Sup3rkiddo> Wander_w, its a device daemon
Jul 08 14:02:52 <Dave> haha
Jul 08 14:03:11 <Wander_w> Sup3rkiddo: I probably can put it on our website
Jul 08 14:03:12 <Dave> My phone needs more NOs?
Jul 08 14:03:40 <Sup3rkiddo> Wander_w, cool, thanks.....shall i mail you the package, its pretty small
Jul 08 14:04:16 <Danker> What is main difference between apachev2 and gplv3 licences?
Jul 08 14:04:17 <Wander_w> Sup3rkiddo: how often does it need updating? how much traffic will it generate?
Jul 08 14:04:36 <Sup3rkiddo> Wander_w, i guess not much really.....its not firefox 4 :D
Jul 08 14:04:46 <Dave> :D
Jul 08 14:05:16 <Dave> Duke Nukem Forever?
Jul 08 14:05:27 <Sup3rkiddo> Wander_w, anyway, i will ping you back in two hours or so....if my unixpod account comes back online by then, i can put it there......
Jul 08 14:06:09 <Wander_w> ...I'm probably in my car in two hours
Jul 08 14:06:51 <Wander_w> s/my car/one of my cars/
Jul 08 14:06:53 <apt> Wander_w meant: ...I'm probably in one of my cars in two hours
Jul 08 14:06:55 <Wander_w> :D
Jul 08 14:06:56 <Dave> Superkiddo, what's up?
Jul 08 14:07:14 <Dave> You need a package hosted for a bit?
Jul 08 14:07:19 <maze> is the 'Freerunner' 1gen or 2gen openmoko?
Jul 08 14:07:22 <Dave> Wander, nice english :p
Jul 08 14:07:26 <Wander_w> 2gen
Jul 08 14:07:31 <maze> ty
Jul 08 14:07:35 <leinir> GTA02 == Freerunner
Jul 08 14:07:40 <Wander_w> dave: Maar gelukkig is mijn nederlands beter
Jul 08 14:07:53 <maze> sjonge jonge
Jul 08 14:07:55 <leinir> Well... GTA02 v.6 == Freerunner
Jul 08 14:07:59 <Dave> ja, goed :D
Jul 08 14:08:25 <Dave> waar woon je?
Jul 08 14:08:32 <Wander_w> Grolle
Jul 08 14:08:40 <Dave> hehe :p
Jul 08 14:08:56 <maze> so, no UMTS yet on the GTA02
Jul 08 14:09:18 <Wander_w> maze: no, unfortunately not
Jul 08 14:09:27 <Tuju> is there any public sales statistics for freerunner?
Jul 08 14:09:30 * Dave por Sup3rkiddo
Jul 08 14:09:51 <maze> reckon it's high on everybody's wishlist (or maybe HSDPA?)
Jul 08 14:10:03 <Wander_w> HSDPA == 3g
Jul 08 14:10:14 <maze> right
Jul 08 14:10:43 <Wander_w> oh wait, you were talking about UMTS :D
Jul 08 14:10:52 <maze> yes
Jul 08 14:11:05 <Wander_w> my bad :P
Jul 08 14:11:17 <maze> looking for a new phone, but I don't want to donate my money to the jobbs retirement funds
Jul 08 14:11:33 <maze> so openmoko looks good :)
Jul 08 14:11:33 <ankhi> hey...just wanted to find out from someone who has the freerunner, how is the texting on the touchscreen?
Jul 08 14:11:43 <ecraven> in openmoko-browser2, how do i type text into a field?
Jul 08 14:12:28 <Dave> rifk :x
Jul 08 14:14:51 <Guilt> you know what
Jul 08 14:14:54 <Guilt> i am so pissed off
Jul 08 14:15:09 <Guilt> it apparently looks like the customs document sent to IDA systems has a problem or so
Jul 08 14:15:16 <Guilt> and they havent recieved the mobies
Jul 08 14:15:22 <Dave> Terrorism!
Jul 08 14:15:24 <Guilt> +l
Jul 08 14:15:27 <Guilt> bastards
Jul 08 14:15:30 <Dave> :P
Jul 08 14:15:49 <Guilt> well. anyway. the point being. WHY did they not send these things properly?
Jul 08 14:16:02 <Guilt> and people in germany already have the freerunner
Jul 08 14:16:04 <Guilt> and mine is a WEEK off.
Jul 08 14:16:12 <Guilt> i need some compensation from openmoko for this
Jul 08 14:16:15 <Guilt> it's their FAULT
Jul 08 14:16:17 <Guilt> grrr...
Jul 08 14:16:24 <Dave> Ze Reich, zey return!
Jul 08 14:16:31 <raster> it may or may no9t be
Jul 08 14:16:36 <raster> customs can just be fairly arbitrary
Jul 08 14:16:46 <raster>  how do u know its om's fault and not customs?
Jul 08 14:16:55 <Wander_w> hey.. this is so cool! My friend who works at customs gave me a free moko!!
Jul 08 14:16:57 <raster> could i tbe the destination address you supplied is wrong?
Jul 08 14:17:02 <raster> u need to find out what the problem is
Jul 08 14:17:06 <Guilt> because i asked the distributor. 
Jul 08 14:17:24 <Dave> and they said they were terrorists?
Jul 08 14:17:31 <Guilt> the distributor HAS NOT is not able to get them from the air authorities
Jul 08 14:17:48 <Dave> Of course not, until they're done with them :P
Jul 08 14:17:50 <raster> and why?
Jul 08 14:17:50 <Guilt> gr. i meant. has not been able to 
Jul 08 14:17:53 <Dave> touching them, and whatnot :P
Jul 08 14:18:12 <Guilt> i swear. if my packet came opened, i'd ask for a day 1 refund
Jul 08 14:18:25 <raster> dude
Jul 08 14:18:27 <raster> its customs
Jul 08 14:18:32 <Guilt> so
Jul 08 14:18:34 <raster> they are allowed to open anything they damn well like
Jul 08 14:18:36 <Guilt> they cant open every damn packet
Jul 08 14:18:38 <raster> and nothing u can do about it
Jul 08 14:18:40 <raster> or OM
Jul 08 14:18:47 <Guilt> yeah. so i'm going to give it back to OM
Jul 08 14:18:48 <raster> they are allowed to do random inspections
Jul 08 14:18:50 <raster> or inspect 100% of all packages
Jul 08 14:18:54 <raster> dont blame om
Jul 08 14:19:01 <raster> blame your own countries customs officials and laws
Jul 08 14:19:08 <raster> they CAN open every damn packet
Jul 08 14:19:09 <Guilt> yeah. but they are bastards too
Jul 08 14:19:12 <raster> if they so want to
Jul 08 14:19:16 <raster> they are allowed to
Jul 08 14:19:20 <Ainulindale> Errr I think you're going a bit too far Guilt 
Jul 08 14:19:28 <Guilt> but thats not right. they havent cleared it because they didnt recieve their documents
Jul 08 14:19:29 <Ainulindale> Same thing in France, customs can open every package
Jul 08 14:19:42 <Guilt> if they had recieved it from wherever the OM shipped from
Jul 08 14:19:45 <Guilt> they wouldnt do this
Jul 08 14:19:55 <Guilt> you have to declare when u ship, isnt that right
Jul 08 14:20:04 <raster> u can declare all u want
Jul 08 14:20:07 <Ainulindale> And I strongly doubt that you would be the only one with this problem if it was OM's fault
Jul 08 14:20:09 <raster> but u are still subejct to search
Jul 08 14:20:12 <raster> if cfstoms wants to
Jul 08 14:20:25 <raster> declaring is simpy a way to possibly expedite thins
Jul 08 14:20:29 <raster> do u travel much Guilt?
Jul 08 14:20:34 <Guilt> oh. this is so great. ;p 
Jul 08 14:20:36 <raster> like overseas?
Jul 08 14:20:37 <Wander_w> maybe you are on the customs black list
Jul 08 14:20:43 <Guilt> raster: why do you ask?
Jul 08 14:20:46 <Wander_w> (these lists do exists)
Jul 08 14:20:51 <raster> i find myself going through customs several times a month
Jul 08 14:20:52 <Guilt> no, but i've recieved lots of things on time.
Jul 08 14:20:56 <raster> i know about customs laws
Jul 08 14:20:59 <Sup3rkiddo> Guilt, Ola...
Jul 08 14:21:08 <Guilt> ola Sup3rkiddo :-)
Jul 08 14:21:09 <raster> the same law applies if coming in person or being shipped unacoompanied
Jul 08 14:21:10 <Sup3rkiddo> Guilt, i hope you remember moi
Jul 08 14:21:17 <raster> in tersm of declarng and searching
Jul 08 14:21:20 <Guilt> yeah. how
Jul 08 14:21:24 <Guilt> 's it going
Jul 08 14:21:34 <raster> u can go to the "nothgin to delcare" line
Jul 08 14:21:39 <raster> and most of the time u just walk thru
Jul 08 14:21:40 <raster> BUt
Jul 08 14:21:43 <Guilt> raster: sure. but this is just too much. and i know those bastards want some kinda' bribe
Jul 08 14:21:43 <raster> somtiems they will search u
Jul 08 14:21:49 <raster> because they feel like it
Jul 08 14:21:51 <raster> random search
Jul 08 14:21:54 <Sup3rkiddo> Guilt, great....IDASystems resell Freerunner in India fyi
Jul 08 14:21:55 <raster> your hair looks funny
Jul 08 14:21:55 <raster> who knows
Jul 08 14:21:57 <Ainulindale> Guilt: which country do you live in ?
Jul 08 14:22:00 <raster> but u cant do a thing about it
Jul 08 14:22:15 <Guilt> Sup3rkiddo: i know. that's exactly what i was saying
Jul 08 14:22:27 <Guilt> IDA systems can NOT get the phones from the customs department in Jaipur
Jul 08 14:22:36 <Sup3rkiddo> Guilt, oh ok, missed the scrollback
Jul 08 14:22:39 <raster> ooh india
Jul 08 14:22:40 <Sup3rkiddo> Guilt, ouch
Jul 08 14:22:42 <raster> even more fun
Jul 08 14:22:56 <Guilt> i just spoke to Zoheb. it seems apparently they have mentioned it as just 'GPS'
Jul 08 14:22:59 <raster> i have heard troies of peole shippng thngs to some countries
Jul 08 14:23:00 <raster> like brazil
Jul 08 14:23:02 <Ainulindale> Sucks to live in India and like the freerunner it seems :-)
Jul 08 14:23:06 <raster> where cusotms officials just halt a shipment
Jul 08 14:23:09 <Sup3rkiddo> raster, actually i got my device without a cinch...three days from Hannover
Jul 08 14:23:12 <raster> even though its 100% legitamate
Jul 08 14:23:15 <raster> they are moving to the country
Jul 08 14:23:18 <Guilt> i meant 'GSM' and they want more information than just that
Jul 08 14:23:21 <raster> and they donot have to pay import duties
Jul 08 14:23:26 <raster> according to the law
Jul 08 14:23:27 <Guilt> Ainulindale: yes.
Jul 08 14:23:29 <Sup3rkiddo> but might get screwed up if its in bulk
Jul 08 14:23:29 <raster> but the official just decides that all items are new
Jul 08 14:23:30 <raster> not used
Jul 08 14:23:45 <raster> and holds the shipment until they get a bribe
Jul 08 14:23:47 <Guilt>  they could have simply shipped to bangalore. no import taxes
Jul 08 14:23:49 <raster> or the cusotms fees are paid
Jul 08 14:24:00 <raster> whihc were like $10k in fees
Jul 08 14:24:05 <raster> so the person had to hire a lawyer
Jul 08 14:24:07 <raster> and fight in court
Jul 08 14:24:10 <raster> it took 6 months
Jul 08 14:24:11 <Ainulindale> raster: so because the customs want a bribe you think it's OM's fault ?
Jul 08 14:24:17 <Ainulindale> ahrem
Jul 08 14:24:19 <raster> cost $20k in lawyerws fees
Jul 08 14:24:20 <Guilt> if it had just come to bangalore and they sent it by road, it would have reached jaipur by now. 
Jul 08 14:24:21 <Ainulindale> s/raster/Guilt/
Jul 08 14:24:27 <raster> but they got their shipment released
Jul 08 14:24:40 <raster> but the fact remains that customs officials are almost with "absolute power"
Jul 08 14:24:41 <Guilt> Ainulindale: i'm not talking about the bribe. but apparently the documents werent good enough
Jul 08 14:24:47 <raster> they can do whatever they like
Jul 08 14:24:56 <raster> regardless fo laws and regulations and forms
Jul 08 14:25:11 <raster> and u have to go through an expensivecourt battle to change anything
Jul 08 14:25:13 <raster> if u are lucky...
Jul 08 14:25:14 <Sup3rkiddo> i have heard horror stories from my friends whose shipment gets fscked by the customs
Jul 08 14:25:31 <Guilt> those bastards. hate them. Arghh
Jul 08 14:25:46 <Sup3rkiddo> (especially alcohol :) )
Jul 08 14:25:54 <Xaos> gotta luv the gubmint eh?
Jul 08 14:26:03 <Guilt> they already make a lot of money in bribe. and when i get something with decent hard earned money thats when they decide to fsck me. 
Jul 08 14:26:27 <Guilt> and they say documents arent right arent good enough
Jul 08 14:26:38 <Guilt> a typical lawsuit in india will take 5-10 years
Jul 08 14:26:46 <Guilt> and there is no saying if the case would be dropped at all
Jul 08 14:27:01 <Sup3rkiddo> =(
Jul 08 14:27:09 <Guilt> ;p even the consumer court sucks. \
Jul 08 14:27:53 <Guilt> who is in charge of sending it to India, anyway?
Jul 08 14:28:08 <Guilt> from OM, I mean.
Jul 08 14:30:21 <Sup3rkiddo> Guilt, are the entire shipment to India stuck at the customs
Jul 08 14:30:28 <Guilt> YES
Jul 08 14:30:39 <Guilt> all 50 of them
Jul 08 14:31:12 <Sup3rkiddo> Guilt, argh :S
Jul 08 14:31:43 <Guilt> you know. if it's not cleared, they might ask IDA to pay a fine. if IDA refuses, it will go back to shipper or get confiscated by the customs
Jul 08 14:31:48 <Guilt> then my money is GONE. 
Jul 08 14:31:53 <Guilt> i'm suing then. 
Jul 08 14:32:24 <Xaos> Sue Customs...not OM...sheesh...can't you see what the real issue is?  It's corrupt government officials
Jul 08 14:32:29 <Sup3rkiddo> Guilt, there maybe buyers apart from you, join up together
Jul 08 14:32:56 <Xaos> Class Action Lawsuit against the government officials involved
Jul 08 14:33:09 <Xaos> only way to stop government corruption is to attack it directly
Jul 08 14:33:13 <Guilt> too bad. some are from Russia, Pakistan ...
Jul 08 14:33:29 <Guilt> Xaos: the only person losing money would be us.
Jul 08 14:33:36 <Guilt> not the government. not the customs officials
Jul 08 14:33:50 <Guilt> and time. we'd have no hope of getting it back
Jul 08 14:34:06 <Guilt> while the whole world is having a freerunner, we'd be in the stone ages.
Jul 08 14:34:39 <Guilt> Zoheb told me initially he'd get it on the 3rd
Jul 08 14:34:45 <Guilt> it's already the 8th now.
Jul 08 14:34:58 <Guilt> and now he says he'll get it tomorrow. like again. 
Jul 08 14:34:59 <Xaos> I'm just saying that if you don't like that situation, then you (and only you) can fix it.  Attacking OM is not going to solve it for you.
Jul 08 14:35:19 <Guilt> how do i fix it? smuggle openmoko into India? is that what you're telling me?
Jul 08 14:35:24 <Xaos> Do you really believe that the "paperwork wasn't in order" or do you really believe that you have corrupt government officials?
Jul 08 14:35:27 <Guilt> or travel to germany and bring it back personally?
Jul 08 14:35:56 <Guilt> I want to find out WHO in Openmoko shipped it, and ask them if they thought the paperwork was in order.
Jul 08 14:36:15 <Xaos> I work for a company which is about half Indian (if not more).  I know all about Indian customs and how corrupt it is.
Jul 08 14:36:21 <Guilt> so if anyone knows a name, tell me. I will email them.
Jul 08 14:36:36 <Guilt> Xaos: i know how corrupt these guys are.
Jul 08 14:36:40 <Xaos> Of course they thought it was in order...would YOU send something out that YOU didn't THINK was in order?
Jul 08 14:37:26 <Guilt> no. but i wouldnt know if it was or wasnt... 
Jul 08 14:40:08 <Xaos> but you wanted to "ask them if they thought the paperwork was in order"...I'm assuming by your answer that you want to know if they KNEW the paperwork was in order
Jul 08 14:40:10 <Guilt> IDA is in contact with Steve
Jul 08 14:40:14 <Guilt> i just asked Zoheb now.
Jul 08 14:40:18 <Guilt> he told me this
Jul 08 14:40:30 <Guilt> that the papers that came with it just said 'GSM' and not 'Mobile Phone'
Jul 08 14:40:57 <Guilt> so he's trying to convince them that it is the SAME thing
Jul 08 14:41:17 <Guilt> Xaos: i need steve or somebody to call up these officials and tell them that.
Jul 08 14:41:22 <Xaos> ok...what is a 'GSM' if it's not a 'Mobile Phone'?  Maybe it's a Guru Sabotage Mechanism
Jul 08 14:42:02 <Guilt> look. i don't know if it's a Grenade Shooting Machine or something else
Jul 08 14:42:14 <Guilt> but apparently the officials need to be told it's a mobile phone
Jul 08 14:43:12 <Guilt> i asked Zoheb if officials were trying to ask for a bribe and he said if it were so he'd have settled it. but i told him not to, and i would speak with openmoko people and sort this out
Jul 08 14:43:34 <Guilt> so i want this sorted the legal way. openmoko better do something here.
Jul 08 14:44:16 <Guilt> i know they dont intend any harm and are good people. i'm only asking for help.
Jul 08 14:44:27 <Guilt> any OM officials here? 
Jul 08 14:48:09 <Guilt> jOERG_rw:  raster: roh: ping
Jul 08 14:52:41 <Guilt> emailed steve. 
Jul 08 14:52:49 <Guilt> heck. let's all hope for the best, fellas
Jul 08 14:54:36 <kdubois> any news if the shipments left california yet for us US people?
Jul 08 14:55:18 <Xaos> I haven't heard anything about my order leaving CA yet...order in the low 1200's
Jul 08 14:56:04 <Guilt> this is exactly what should be done: http://indiacustoms.blogspot.com/2008/01/registering-complaint-vigilance.html
Jul 08 14:56:24 <kdubois> i'm 1214, so i think our orders are on the same boat (or truck) :P
Jul 08 14:56:50 <Guilt> couple of days or the PMO will hear
Jul 08 14:57:02 <Dave> Eh?
Jul 08 14:57:08 <Dave> haha India
Jul 08 14:57:10 <Ainulindale> My order is currently in the french customs
Jul 08 14:57:11 <Xaos> kdubois...probably...your's is a little ahead of mine, but should go out at same time
Jul 08 14:57:18 <Ainulindale> Hope it will be available tomorrow
Jul 08 14:57:33 <Guilt> Dave: haha ;p why can't the rest of the world be that corrupt
Jul 08 14:57:38 <Guilt> maybe the mailman will miss your mails
Jul 08 14:57:47 <Dave> TERRORISM.
Jul 08 14:57:48 <Guilt> or maybe the doggie chased him away
Jul 08 14:57:53 <Dave> WOOF WOOF
Jul 08 14:57:54 <Guilt> yeah, right :p
Jul 08 14:58:15 <Guilt> it's all funny when it happens to the other guy
Jul 08 14:58:22 <Guilt> it's not funny at all when you're here
Jul 08 14:58:40 <kdubois> Xaos: at least we dont have interstate customs :P constitution ftw 
Jul 08 14:59:05 <Xaos> true
Jul 08 14:59:27 <Xaos> that's ONE thing in the Constitution that is still upheld at least
Jul 08 15:01:36 <Dave> GUNS
Jul 08 15:02:46 <Ainulindale> Dave: and naked women !
Jul 08 15:03:02 <Wander_w> TITTIES
Jul 08 15:03:09 <Dave> \o/
Jul 08 15:03:33 <Dave> Yes, wander, en kont :p
Jul 08 15:04:41 <Wander_w> it's annoying when someone in an obscure IRC channel about an even more obscure phone talks my obscure language
Jul 08 15:04:55 <Dave> >:)
Jul 08 15:05:05 <Dave> We're onto you, Wander_w!
Jul 08 15:05:15 <maze> hoezo dat dan?
Jul 08 15:05:23 <Wander_w> no more "Ha, but I can talk Dutch and you can't, HA!"
Jul 08 15:05:31 <maze> heersch
Jul 08 15:05:36 <Wander_w> en verdeel
Jul 08 15:05:41 <maze> en pwn
Jul 08 15:06:10 <Dave> :D
Jul 08 15:06:17 <Dave> jajaja
Jul 08 15:06:39 <Dave> hoe is het met jou, maze? :]
Jul 08 15:07:04 <maze> Dave, prima 
Jul 08 15:07:19 <maze> kater :p
Jul 08 15:07:44 <Dave> heh
Jul 08 15:07:44 <AVee> Op dinsdag? Tsss...
Jul 08 15:08:10 <Wander_w> op maandag smaakt het bier anders ook goed
Jul 08 15:08:25 <Dave> Nederlandse!
Jul 08 15:08:41 <Wander_w> Overloper!
Jul 08 15:08:55 <Dave> ja ja ja, ik ben overloper :p
Jul 08 15:11:40 <maze> vanaf zaterdag is er een opensource event in Holland, http://www.eth-0.nl
Jul 08 15:11:48 <maze> dus vandaar kater ;)
Jul 08 15:12:20 <Dave> oooh
Jul 08 15:12:52 <Wander_w> "opensource event" == BEER
Jul 08 15:13:04 <maze> humpa :)
Jul 08 15:13:10 <Wander_w> alleen dan zonder de vrouwen :P
Jul 08 15:13:29 <maze> die zijn er wel
Jul 08 15:13:49 <Wander_w> hoeveel dan?
Jul 08 15:14:04 <maze> 5-10% ofzo
Jul 08 15:14:08 <Wander_w> wow.
Jul 08 15:14:44 <Ainulindale> Seems as if there's a lot of people sneezing here :-)
Jul 08 15:15:13 <Pyrasi> just patiently waiting for my freerunner. 
Jul 08 15:15:18 <Wander_w> that's right, frenchie :P
Jul 08 15:15:29 <dtx> I'm impatiently waiting
Jul 08 15:15:33 <dtx> but what can I do
Jul 08 15:16:22 <dtx> Are basic phone utilities stable?
Jul 08 15:16:51 <dtx> Calling / Phone Book / etc.
Jul 08 15:17:10 <dtx> since it was changed over to the Qt tools
Jul 08 15:17:15 <dtx> or Qtopia I mean
Jul 08 15:19:22 <leinir> Wander_w: Which is part of why akademy 2008 is in Belgium ;)
Jul 08 15:21:30 <JoshTriplett> Has anyone purchased their phone from Koolu?  Any issues with them?
Jul 08 15:21:31 <Wander_w> beh... DB is down.. time to go home ...
Jul 08 15:21:43 <igor321> still no official word on the gps issues?
Jul 08 15:22:03 <JoshTriplett> They seemed a bit disreputable at first, since they rebranded the phone and didn't say "openmoko" or "neo" anywhere.
Jul 08 15:22:08 <benlake> should I expect a shipping confirmation email/tracking number?
Jul 08 15:24:19 <JoshTriplett> igor321: GPS issues?
Jul 08 15:24:40 * Dave tickles leinir.
Jul 08 15:24:41 <kdubois> benlake: i've heard we may get one from UPS (im in the states), but i havent gotten one yet
Jul 08 15:24:46 <leinir> Eeeep!
Jul 08 15:24:50 * leinir collapses all crampey
Jul 08 15:25:08 <benlake> kdubois: hmm ok...
Jul 08 15:25:11 <igor321> JoshTriplett: yes, the gps is behaving weirdly for some people, check the ML
Jul 08 15:25:43 <Dave> :o
Jul 08 15:25:47 <Dave> oops? :p
Jul 08 15:25:49 <JoshTriplett> igor321: The issues with taking really long to get a first fix, or something else?
Jul 08 15:26:02 <igor321> some people not getting a fix at all
Jul 08 15:26:21 <Ainulindale> igor321: Is it purely a software problem ?
Jul 08 15:26:47 <igor321> doesn't seems so, cause it's seems to work with the ext antenna
Jul 08 15:27:05 <igor321> but i'm still waiting on someone official to say something
Jul 08 15:27:30 <Xaos> how does one test for this defect and does it count as a DOA for the warranty?
Jul 08 15:27:49 <benlake> there is a warranty? :P
Jul 08 15:28:11 <Xaos> I believe it is a 2 week DOA warranty if I remember correctly
Jul 08 15:28:34 <benlake> well that's something :)
Jul 08 15:28:46 <nuclear_eclipse> 14 days for single orders, 28 days for 10-packs
Jul 08 15:29:10 <Xaos> thanks Nuke!  
Jul 08 15:29:15 <igor321> http://koolu.com/About/About-Koolu.html
Jul 08 15:29:15 <nuclear_eclipse> yw
Jul 08 15:29:26 <igor321> does anyone know what this is about?
Jul 08 15:30:25 <SpeedEvil> igor321: Koalas are a variety of australian bird. They eat eccentrics.
Jul 08 15:30:27 <dtx> shit so GPS doesn't work?
Jul 08 15:30:27 <nuclear_eclipse> igor321: it just looks like someone trying to make a shady buck off of openmoko's work
Jul 08 15:30:55 <igor321> shady? they seem to have implemented that keyboard
Jul 08 15:31:10 * nuclear_eclipse thinks it's probably photoshopped :P
Jul 08 15:31:15 <igor321> well possibly not
Jul 08 15:31:30 <Xaos> it's almost certainly pshopped, but it would be a cool thing...no?
Jul 08 15:31:34 <igor321> they are an "official" reseller
Jul 08 15:31:48 <igor321> so they do have some credibility, in my eyes
Jul 08 15:31:53 <Xaos> how can it be shady?  Isn't this supposed to be an OPEN phone?
Jul 08 15:32:02 <nuclear_eclipse> is it Koolu saying they are official, or Openmoko?
Jul 08 15:32:13 <igor321> they're on the official page
Jul 08 15:32:30 <pjj> well using osx looks is kinda shady ;)
Jul 08 15:32:41 <Xaos> who cares...can I not take the phone and do what I want with it?  Including putting a laser keyboard and a projector into it and re-selling it?
Jul 08 15:32:56 <SpeedEvil> laser keyboard is stupid.
Jul 08 15:32:56 <nuclear_eclipse> Xaos: I'm not saying you can't
Jul 08 15:32:59 <SpeedEvil> IMO
Jul 08 15:32:59 <Xaos> probably just an OSX theme
Jul 08 15:33:24 <Xaos> laser keyboard gives as much tactile feedback as the lcd does....doesn't it?
Jul 08 15:33:33 <nuclear_eclipse> but the Koolu site has been around for quite a while and always seemed incredibly shady on what they said they could/would be doing
Jul 08 15:34:01 <Xaos> not saying they aren't shady and utterly corrupt...but it would be a neat phone.  ;-)
Jul 08 15:34:01 <nuclear_eclipse> their site looks much less shady these days
Jul 08 15:34:39 <dtx> A music messaging session has been requested. Please click the MM icon to accept.
Jul 08 15:34:50 <nuclear_eclipse> the "shady" part is that your "$299" freerunner requires you getting them 25 Google Apps sign ups....
Jul 08 15:34:50 <igor321> they don't seem criminal, at least :)
Jul 08 15:34:57 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r909dce059911 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade Qtopia to get further improved call handling
Jul 08 15:35:30 <igor321> oh? that is shady...
Jul 08 15:39:11 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r1c3cfda70768 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade Qtopia to get further improved call handling
Jul 08 15:39:54 <pthorin> is there a more detailed way of booting from SD cards than the one on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Boot_from_sd_card?
Jul 08 15:40:35 <pthorin> ah, maybe the one at Booting_from_SD
Jul 08 15:42:57 <goodwill> igor321: pyramid scheme
Jul 08 15:44:05 <goodwill> koolu appliance also looks like something I've seen before. Can not remember the company name though
Jul 08 15:48:38 <Weiss> igor321: the 'how it all started' page doesn't seem to have very much to do with the rest of the site. looks dodgy to me..
Jul 08 15:51:14 <igor321> Weiss: i know, openmoko shouldn't have made them an official distributer then, eh :)
Jul 08 15:51:24 <jOERG_rw> Guilt: sorry, can't help at all on this topic :.(
Jul 08 15:52:22 <igor321> except look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koolu
Jul 08 15:52:34 <nuclear_eclipse> igor321: "official distrbutor" probably means nothing more than "they bought a bunch of units from us to sell to others" :P
Jul 08 15:53:03 <igor321> did you see the wiki? it just gets weirder....
Jul 08 15:55:06 <goodwill> where does it say official distributor?
Jul 08 15:55:49 <igor321> on openmoko.com
Jul 08 15:55:56 <nuclear_eclipse> goodwill: check openmoko.com for distributors for the americas
Jul 08 15:57:00 <igor321> i'm checking them out on youtube and they are one weird company :)
Jul 08 15:57:00 <goodwill> interesting
Jul 08 15:57:17 <goodwill> is that other appliance they have theirs? or someone elses?
Jul 08 15:57:25 <igor321> it's from FIC
Jul 08 15:58:40 <goodwill> Well-known Linux luminary Jon "maddog" Hall
Jul 08 15:58:44 <goodwill> is that true?
Jul 08 15:59:03 <nuclear_eclipse> I dont know him :P
Jul 08 15:59:07 <goodwill> I do nto really remember his name from anywhere, but I do not necessarily pay my attention to such things
Jul 08 15:59:13 <igor321> he is famouse
Jul 08 15:59:18 <igor321> *famous
Jul 08 15:59:33 <igor321> but i'm not so sure that the info on wiki is completely true
Jul 08 15:59:54 <Qwell> goodwill: Maddog is crazy.
Jul 08 15:59:59 <Qwell> (in a good way?)
Jul 08 16:01:35 <goodwill> but igor321  is right. 25 people sign ups for google apps premium or 100 for good apps free is fairly shady
Jul 08 16:01:56 <goodwill> and if maddog is supposed to be promoting open source thats not that way to do it
Jul 08 16:18:57 <pthorin> which one of the images (GTK, ASU, or FSO) is the most stable right now?
Jul 08 16:19:37 <pthorin> and is it easier/better to try to boot it from sd or by flashing the actual device? 
Jul 08 16:20:04 <Ainulindale> pthorin: on the telephony point of view, FSO
Jul 08 16:21:22 <pthorin> Ainulindale: but that's pretty much all the FSO does right now? 
Jul 08 16:21:41 <Ainulindale> Hopefully not for long
Jul 08 16:21:54 <macdonalder> what's up doc|home? :D
Jul 08 16:22:08 <pthorin> according to the roadmap, it's 3 weeks until SMS
Jul 08 16:22:36 <pthorin> but if I would want to use the GPS or wifi? 
Jul 08 16:23:48 <Ainulindale> pthorin: I don't know anything about that :-)
Jul 08 16:23:58 <pthorin> Ainulindale: ok, thanks anyway :) 
Jul 08 16:24:24 <macdonalder> pthorin brings up a question, is there a wiki page somewhere with the current state or roadmaps for the different stacks?
Jul 08 16:24:27 <Ainulindale> pthorin: For my part right now I'm just interested in having a phone with basic telephony capabilities, and a decent battery time
Jul 08 16:24:33 <Ainulindale> macdonalder: yep, there's trac
Jul 08 16:25:03 <Tanuva> macdonalder: and on the wiki theres at least a roadmap for asu
Jul 08 16:25:15 <SpeedEvil> Shop graph has almost stalled.
Jul 08 16:25:26 <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/Freerunner.gif
Jul 08 16:25:29 <macdonalder> ahh ok, thanks
Jul 08 16:25:52 <pthorin> macdonalder: http://trac.freesmartphone.org:8000/trac-example/roadmap
Jul 08 16:26:18 <pthorin> macdonalder: that's for the FSO
Jul 08 16:26:54 * Tanuva is flashing the gtk stack (again) and hoping that wlan will work with that...
Jul 08 16:27:39 <macdonalder> pthorin: thanks!
Jul 08 16:27:48 * macdonalder bookmarks
Jul 08 16:28:10 <macdonalder> definitely easier than flashing all the time to figure out what's changed
Jul 08 16:28:29 <Ainulindale> macdonalder: haha :-)
Jul 08 16:29:13 <macdonalder> up until a week or so ago I didn't even know there were three different stacks...
Jul 08 16:29:44 <Ainulindale> Neither did I
Jul 08 16:29:49 <nuclear_eclipse> macdonalder: I take it you're not on the community mailing list? ;)
Jul 08 16:30:03 <macdonalder> unfortunately not, maybe I should get on that ;)
Jul 08 16:30:22 <pthorin> michael lauer has written about them here: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/
Jul 08 16:30:42 <nuclear_eclipse> it's a dead horse that's been beaten on the list twenty times already it seems :D
Jul 08 16:30:56 <Dave> I have returned.
Jul 08 16:31:02 <nuclear_eclipse> hello Dave
Jul 08 16:31:11 <Tanuva> Dave: congrats. :)
Jul 08 16:31:36 <goodwill> Dave: booya?
Jul 08 16:32:10 <macdonalder> well in comparison to your average commercially available phone the options you've got in terms of what you want to run on the phone are both staggering and confusing... at least initially
Jul 08 16:32:20 <nuclear_eclipse> macdonalder: +1000
Jul 08 16:32:45 <nuclear_eclipse> it certainly could use some more organization and information placed in a public location
Jul 08 16:32:59 <macdonalder> absolutely
Jul 08 16:33:23 <Tanuva> at least we have the Latest_Images page now
Jul 08 16:33:31 <macdonalder> I don't have my phone yet, but once I do and I have a chance to play with it a bit I'd love to help out
Jul 08 16:33:31 <nuclear_eclipse> although, IIRC, there's a page on the wiki that tells you what/where/how to get each of the available images
Jul 08 16:33:45 <Ainulindale> yep on mokomakefile
Jul 08 16:34:30 <Dave> goodwill!
Jul 08 16:35:58 <goodwill> Tanuva: we do?
Jul 08 16:36:29 <ecraven> ;) can I somehow disable power-on on usb connect?
Jul 08 16:36:35 <Tanuva> goodwill: yes, we do
Jul 08 16:36:50 <goodwill> where is that at?
Jul 08 16:37:01 <Tanuva> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Latest_Images
Jul 08 16:37:19 <nuclear_eclipse> ah, that's the page I was thinking of
Jul 08 16:37:25 <Tanuva> I think thats what nuclear_eclipse meant
Jul 08 16:37:29 <Tanuva> ;D
Jul 08 16:37:50 <nuclear_eclipse> so, what does TMTLA mean?
Jul 08 16:38:12 <pthorin> nuclear_eclipse: Too Many Three Letter Acronyms
Jul 08 16:38:16 <nuclear_eclipse> ah ha!
Jul 08 16:38:27 <nuclear_eclipse> it all makes sense now
Jul 08 16:38:39 <pthorin> could be Two letter as well, but in this case based on context, I would say it's three :) 
Jul 08 16:38:46 <nuclear_eclipse> hehe
Jul 08 16:38:59 <pthorin> there are also FLA and OLA, and so on I guess
Jul 08 16:39:21 <ecraven> did anyone successfully boot from SD with their FR?
Jul 08 16:39:22 <mjr> ETLA
Jul 08 16:39:52 <pthorin> the Latest_Images page is also linked from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner FYI
Jul 08 16:40:39 <Tanuva> ecraven: I didnt manage to get a vfat fs on mmcblk0p1 yet since my printer's cardreader doesnt recognize it and the neo doesnt have mkfs.vfat
Jul 08 16:40:49 <goodwill> hehhehe
Jul 08 16:40:50 <goodwill> SHR (Stable Hybrid Release) Image
Jul 08 16:40:59 <goodwill> The SHR doesn't exist anywhere but in a few people's heads at the moment (2008-07-05).
Jul 08 16:41:17 <ecraven> Tanuva: i did, and it didn't work :(
Jul 08 16:41:37 <Tanuva> there seem to be some problems around this..
Jul 08 16:42:23 <pthorin> ecraven, Tanuva: it did not work for me with the ASU in any case
Jul 08 16:43:20 <Dave> Anyone else here play with Thomas's lil demo app? :p
Jul 08 16:43:32 <Dave> For which the script was finally posted :P
Jul 08 16:43:50 <ecraven> Dave: which demo app?
Jul 08 16:44:06 <ecraven> Tanuva, pthorin: i heard the uboot was bad, maybe, and we'd need to update it
Jul 08 16:44:10 <Dave> the led/wifi/accel one :]
Jul 08 16:44:10 * nuclear_eclipse wishes he his FreeRunner would hurry up and ship
Jul 08 16:44:22 <ecraven> Dave: yes, i modified it a bit today :)
Jul 08 16:44:22 <Dave> s/he//
Jul 08 16:44:24 <apt> Dave meant: t led/wifi/accel one :]
Jul 08 16:44:27 <Dave> oh, cool :D
Jul 08 16:44:30 <Dave> apt, shush.
Jul 08 16:44:32 <apt> Fine, I'll shut up.
Jul 08 16:44:35 <Dave> :)
Jul 08 16:44:43 <lindi-> any cheap and small keyboard i could use with freerunner?
Jul 08 16:45:06 <lindi-> the bluetooth keyboards are around 90 EUR which is quite expensive imho
Jul 08 16:45:13 <Dave> ecraven, cool, I'm trying to play with it now but there are a number of noticible issues; would you mind chatting for a few minutes about it with me? :)
Jul 08 16:45:31 <ecraven> not at all
Jul 08 16:45:50 <ecraven> i changed the accelerator part to correctly display all 4 orientations
Jul 08 16:46:24 <IXian-Probe> Does anyone here have experience with antenna hw design? I'm curious if it would be possible to hack/retrofit a better antenna in the FR...(?)
Jul 08 16:46:36 <ebbe> lindi-: http://www.freedominput.com/site/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=88&vmcchk=1
Jul 08 16:46:37 <IXian-Probe> (NOt that I have a specific plan to do so.)
Jul 08 16:46:45 <Dave> ecraven, sweet, what were the exact issues behind the event devices?
Jul 08 16:47:10 <Dave> I only got a gist of what the problem appeared to be, but I did not find a solution yet :]
Jul 08 16:47:20 <ecraven> no idea, i never changed that part, http://eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at/tmp/gta02.py
Jul 08 16:47:26 <ecraven> what's the problem?
Jul 08 16:47:34 <Dave> hmm
Jul 08 16:47:39 <Dave> let me run yours and see :)
Jul 08 16:47:49 <lindi-> ebbe: hmm, 70 pounds is still quite a lot
Jul 08 16:47:55 <ecraven> i also added an Exit button :)
Jul 08 16:48:13 <ebbe> lindi-: Ohh. Didn't see it was punds.. sorry :)
Jul 08 16:49:43 <ecraven> Dave: i also added a basic /usr/share/applications/info.desktop to start it from the menu ;)
Jul 08 16:49:45 <Dave> Ah neat
Jul 08 16:49:49 <ecraven> does it work?
Jul 08 16:49:52 <Dave> That's what I would have liked!
Jul 08 16:49:57 <Dave> oh uyeah
Jul 08 16:50:00 <ecraven> it should correctly identify 5 different orientations
Jul 08 16:50:15 <ecraven> level, portrait, head-up portrait, left landscape and right landscape
Jul 08 16:50:21 <ecraven> provided you tilt it a bit :)
Jul 08 16:50:23 <Dave> It's a bit slow, but works :D
Jul 08 16:50:24 <Dave> yeah it does :)
Jul 08 16:50:35 <ecraven> yes, that might be due to it being python
Jul 08 16:50:46 <Dave> except one additional issue
Jul 08 16:50:48 <ecraven> when the qt stuff is done, i'll try with that
Jul 08 16:50:57 <Dave> is my graphical display looks a bit different, perhaps I'm missing something?
Jul 08 16:51:04 <Dave> where the buttons are, there is only text displayed :x
Jul 08 16:51:55 <ecraven> which buttons?
Jul 08 16:52:09 <Dave> the LED buttons
Jul 08 16:52:30 <Dave> Oh, and thank you for the exit button :p
Jul 08 16:52:39 <ecraven> hehe, i don't like apps without exit buttons
Jul 08 16:52:49 <Dave> Now if only I had an app button to launch it with ;)
Jul 08 16:52:52 <Dave> Agreed
Jul 08 16:53:07 <ecraven> Dave: a second
Jul 08 16:53:14 <Dave> okay :]
Jul 08 16:53:28 <jakob__> can anybody point me into the right direction howto get access the data from the accelerometers in the freerunner?
Jul 08 16:53:38 <jakob__> +to
Jul 08 16:54:06 <ecraven> move this  http://eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at/tmp/info.desktop  to /usr/share/applications
Jul 08 16:54:15 <ecraven> and adjust the path inside to point to your gta02.py
Jul 08 16:54:18 <ecraven> then it should show up in the menu
Jul 08 16:54:22 <Dave> Ah, okay :]
Jul 08 16:54:26 <lindi-> jakob__: are you developing your own application?
Jul 08 16:54:35 <jakob__> lindi-: yes
Jul 08 16:54:50 <jakob__> lindi-: I am just not sure howto access the needed data
Jul 08 16:54:52 <ecraven> jakob__: http://eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at/tmp/gta02.py  has python code to access the accelerometers
Jul 08 16:55:06 <ecraven> i didn't write this though, so i can't tell you how it works :)
Jul 08 16:55:07 <jakob__> ecraven: thanks I will take a look at this
Jul 08 16:55:22 <Dave> yep :D
Jul 08 16:55:27 <Dave> black magic!
Jul 08 16:55:28 <ecraven> Dave: strange, it doesn't work on my fr any longer.. i'll have a look at the event stuff
Jul 08 16:55:29 <Dave> and voodoo :p
Jul 08 16:55:32 <ecraven> Dave: what's wrong with that?
Jul 08 16:55:34 <Dave> hmm
Jul 08 16:55:40 <Dave> what's wrong with what?
Jul 08 16:55:42 <Dave> oh heehee :P
Jul 08 16:55:47 <Dave> Nothing, of course ;D
Jul 08 16:55:53 <Dave> I mean hey, I even write in perl :P
Jul 08 16:55:57 <Dave> that's evil enough >:)
Jul 08 16:56:03 <lindi-> ecraven: thanks, can you put that to more permanent location so that it doesn't get lost?
Jul 08 16:56:24 <ecraven> i'll modify it some more, then put it onto the wiki
Jul 08 16:56:57 <bobkare> ecraven: try changing event3 to event2, somebody said there was a bug that made only one of the accelerometers come up at boot
Jul 08 16:57:10 <Dave> ecraven \o/
Jul 08 16:57:33 * Dave gives ecraven some of his cookies
Jul 08 16:58:26 <nuclear_eclipse> cookies!
Jul 08 16:58:29 <Dave> Still, it's strange, how my LED buttons in the python app don't show up as buttons.
Jul 08 16:58:33 <Dave> nuclear_eclipse: AFFIRMATIVE.
Jul 08 16:59:02 * nuclear_eclipse hurries to write Python to get his own cookies!
Jul 08 16:59:22 <ecraven> Dave: oh, i think buttons are styled to look like text :)
Jul 08 16:59:25 <ecraven> look at the exit button
Jul 08 16:59:38 <Dave> right but the exit button has a different colored background at least
Jul 08 16:59:54 <Dave> the background behind the LED selections are the same, and I wasn't sure it was intended to be as such :P
Jul 08 17:00:24 <Sjano> Hello.
Jul 08 17:00:33 <ecraven> what was the command to enumerate all input/events again?
Jul 08 17:00:39 <ecraven> Dave: strange
Jul 08 17:00:49 <Dave> yeah :|
Jul 08 17:00:59 <Dave> I can take a screenshot if you'd like, though I think you get the gist of it :P
Jul 08 17:01:10 <ecraven> yes, i see the same behaviour here
Jul 08 17:01:31 <ecraven> ah, because it's a ToggleButton, not a Button
Jul 08 17:02:16 <Sjano> Can openmoko run normal linux software? like... lets say desktop web browsers?
Jul 08 17:02:28 <leinir> Well, kind of - needs compiling but yes
Jul 08 17:02:43 <leinir> Problem is that VGA isn't really much space for that ;)
Jul 08 17:03:36 <ecraven> hm.. shouldn't there be udev rules for the accelerometer?
Jul 08 17:03:49 <Sjano> hmmm... well... it runs JM2E too, right?
Jul 08 17:04:46 <Sjano> have to come with lots of wierd questions until it's ready for end users :P
Jul 08 17:05:55 <lindi-> Sjano: you must mean j2me
Jul 08 17:06:01 <SpeedEvil> Sjano: think of it as a P100 laptop with a 2.8" screen, and you won't be far wrong.
Jul 08 17:06:03 <lindi-> Sjano: and no, it's not included
Jul 08 17:06:04 <Sjano> j2me, yeah
Jul 08 17:06:25 <lindi-> Sjano: not sure how free that would be anyway
Jul 08 17:06:42 <Sjano> oh?
Jul 08 17:06:50 * Tanuva would really like to know why his neo doesnt like wifi...
Jul 08 17:06:53 <mjr> the phoneme j2me thingy is free and has been afaik run (under qvfb) on the neo, but don't know details
Jul 08 17:07:41 <Sjano> kinda want j2me for the opera mini browser, (or maybe opera mobile, don't know if it needs j2me :S )
Jul 08 17:08:00 <mjr> https://phoneme.dev.java.net/
Jul 08 17:08:01 <Sjano> phoneme? whats that?
Jul 08 17:08:40 <Sjano> so it's like an opensource version of j2me?
Jul 08 17:08:54 <mjr> so it's like the j2me freed
Jul 08 17:09:38 <Sjano> nice. is it compable with software made for j2me?
Jul 08 17:09:45 <mjr> should be
Jul 08 17:10:10 <mjr> Though you mustn't claim Java(TM) compliance without doing the Official Tests. But the functionality "should" be there
Jul 08 17:10:15 <Tanuva> my neo's producing messages like this all the time on dmesg. does this wmi control somehow affect wlan? gta02:~#
Jul 08 17:10:26 <Tanuva> argh. http://rafb.net/p/yCrqdi58.html
Jul 08 17:10:36 <Dave> ecraven, one would think so :)
Jul 08 17:10:43 <Dave> it seems to be more of a naughty device :p
Jul 08 17:12:16 <lindi-> Tanuva: sounds like http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1285
Jul 08 17:12:18 <TAsn> http://digg.com/apple/G_Park_iPhone_App_Lets_the_Forgetful_Bookmark_Their_Cars
Jul 08 17:12:32 <TAsn> genius, that's a good thing to do in the moko
Jul 08 17:12:52 <Qwell> bookmark your car?
Jul 08 17:12:54 <Sjano> how far has the openmoko mobile phone gotten? from the eyes of an end user? can it make/recive calls,sms,mms and so on?
Jul 08 17:12:58 <TAsn> well atleast to incorporate into tangogps :)
Jul 08 17:12:59 <Qwell> like gps?
Jul 08 17:13:06 <TAsn> Qwell, with gps.
Jul 08 17:13:14 <lindi-> Sjano: afaik yes
Jul 08 17:13:28 <TAsn> Qwell, just make it a fast accessible button :)
Jul 08 17:13:34 <lindi-> Sjano: if you have vnc you can play with my emulated openmoko
Jul 08 17:13:38 <Qwell> the "Dude, where's my car?" button
Jul 08 17:14:56 <Tanuva> lindi-: hmm.. so my wifi issues at least wont be caused by the hardware, thats nice to hear...
Jul 08 17:15:56 <Dave> :D
Jul 08 17:15:58 <Sjano> lindi-: will it work with ultravnc? think i have that on my other comp.
Jul 08 17:16:05 <lindi-> Sjano: sure, vnc is vnc
Jul 08 17:16:38 <TAsn> Qwell, exactly :)
Jul 08 17:16:45 <pthorin> woah, ASU booting 
Jul 08 17:16:48 <kelvie_work> hmm.. is there an NX client / server for the openmoko yet? :P
Jul 08 17:17:06 <Qwell> mmm, nx
Jul 08 17:17:44 <ecraven> what does neod do exactly?
Jul 08 17:17:45 <kelvie_work> NX is so much better than VNC
Jul 08 17:17:49 <lindi-> kelvie_work: wasn't there a freedom issue?
Jul 08 17:17:56 <mjr> Sjano, it's not the most reliable phone, but the default software will do calls and sms. No mms (though it is a software issue, so feel free to code support ;P )
Jul 08 17:17:57 <kelvie_work> the protocol is open
Jul 08 17:18:05 <kelvie_work> I think there's at least one GPL implementation
Jul 08 17:18:19 <Qwell> kelvie: it's not so much "open".  it's more or less just X forwarding, no?
Jul 08 17:18:49 <kelvie_work> it's a lot more than that
Jul 08 17:19:00 <kelvie_work> it can even do multimedia, clipboard sharing
Jul 08 17:19:02 <kelvie_work> dynamic resizing
Jul 08 17:19:09 <kelvie_work> supports a lot more X extensions
Jul 08 17:19:20 <kelvie_work> and is really, really bandwidth friendly
Jul 08 17:19:33 <lindi-> kelvie_work: still, there's a reason why it's not in e.g. debian probably :(
Jul 08 17:20:02 <kelvie_work> yeah on my work machine here (kubuntu) I had to install it manually
Jul 08 17:20:02 <Sjano> mjr: i wouldn't be able to help much with the coding, i barly know a little c+ , hehe...
Jul 08 17:20:08 <kelvie_work> gentoo gets away with a lot of non-free packages :p
Jul 08 17:20:13 <kelvie_work> or licencing issues
Jul 08 17:20:33 <mjr> Sjano, well, the point is, you don't want it as an end-user phone just yet
Jul 08 17:20:35 <lindi-> kelvie_work: yep they do, user needs to manually check every license statement to be sure :)
Jul 08 17:21:23 <kelvie_work> hehe
Jul 08 17:21:35 <Sjano> mjr: nbo, i want to use it as an end-user phone, but i think i have to wait, hehe.... :P
Jul 08 17:21:40 <Dave> pesky ricers, we hateses them.
Jul 08 17:21:48 <Sjano> nbo=no*
Jul 08 17:21:55 <kelvie_work> doesn't look like the server is free .. hrm
Jul 08 17:22:05 <kelvie_work> which is a shame.. NX is really that awesome
Jul 08 17:22:40 <Dave> what are we talking about here, neod?
Jul 08 17:22:46 <mjr> Sjano, certainly. We all hope your wait is short :]
Jul 08 17:22:51 <Sjano> how's the battery lifetime on the phone currently? like X/hours standby/connected to wifi/talking in phone?
Jul 08 17:23:14 <Dave> Sjano, getting there... :p
Jul 08 17:24:11 <mjr> The predecessor device has been clocked at 21 hours mostly on standby, and able to answer call after that. Power saving is very much a work in progress.
Jul 08 17:24:39 <Sjano> mjr: well think it's worth the wait, atleast after my expectations :D and i've allready had my phone a couple of years so i hope it'll hold until openmoko's done :D
Jul 08 17:26:44 <lindi-> kelvie_work: 'NX will never be included into Debian if its include sources of X, Samba and so on.'
Jul 08 17:26:53 <lindi-> kelvie_work: -- http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-nx-group/2008-January/000189.html
Jul 08 17:28:21 <LoneTech> so what does the nxproxy package do?
Jul 08 17:28:57 <ecraven> what is neod for?
Jul 08 17:29:20 <lindi-> LoneTech: it's one single C file :)
Jul 08 17:29:30 <kelvie_work> lindi-: ah, that's just weird
Jul 08 17:29:33 <lindi-> LoneTech: -rw-r--r-- 1 lindi kurp 2009 Jan 19  2007 ./nxproxy/Main.c
Jul 08 17:29:33 <ebbe> ecraven: Handling button presses i think
Jul 08 17:30:26 <LoneTech> lindi-: according to nomachine site, it uses a library, so that doesn't say much on its own. It appears nxproxy uses the NX and X protocols.
Jul 08 17:30:38 <NineX> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Comparison_of_file_systems&oldid=220529437#Features <rotfl
Jul 08 17:30:52 <ecraven> why the f.. does it open all input/event*??
Jul 08 17:30:55 <lindi-> LoneTech: in debian it doesn't depend on anything interesting
Jul 08 17:31:01 <kelvie_work> mm I'm glad I don't have to use the server on a debian based machine then
Jul 08 17:31:17 <LoneTech> lindi-: it does, libxcomp3.
Jul 08 17:31:53 <Dave> ecraven: yeah, I wondered that myself
Jul 08 17:31:56 <Dave> it's also buggy
Jul 08 17:31:58 <Danker> NineX: "Murders your wife" :lol:
Jul 08 17:32:12 <lindi-> LoneTech: ah true
Jul 08 17:32:18 <ecraven> Dave: so, how do we fix this?
Jul 08 17:32:23 <Dave> why sometimes does it show up under the Currently used apps menu, and sometimes not, and sometimes it runs at 70-90% CPU for an hour, and sometimes it's not running at all.
Jul 08 17:32:38 <lindi-> LoneTech: maybe those alone jsut aren't enough
Jul 08 17:32:44 <Dave> I have no clue, so far I think neod is evil, though I honestly have no ideas what's its specific function is! :P
Jul 08 17:33:12 <ecraven> also we should have udev rules for the accelerators, i wrote some, but i have no idea how to get them into the official image
Jul 08 17:33:18 <Tanuva> Dave: thats why it must be evil :D
Jul 08 17:33:46 <kelvie_work> it's sad when otherwise really great technologies become basically unaccessible :(
Jul 08 17:33:52 <Danker> I bet that reiser had a serious reason to do this... Sometimes women can really piss off....
Jul 08 17:34:02 <ecraven> ok, killing neod is *not* a good idea :)
Jul 08 17:34:12 <lindi-> kelvie_work: i think it's sensible to not fork samba :)
Jul 08 17:34:24 <Dave> Ah, finally, GDocs is back up
Jul 08 17:34:26 <lindi-> kelvie_work: now if there's a security bug in samba you need to find the same code in nx too
Jul 08 17:34:31 <Dave> ecraven, I found that out yeah! :D
Jul 08 17:34:31 <LoneTech> http://www.nomachine.com/documentation/building-components.php seems to talk about it. Looks like the next step is management, including (I guess) a disconnectable X server.
Jul 08 17:34:32 <kelvie_work> I do agree on that
Jul 08 17:34:44 <LoneTech> nxproxy appears to be the core of it
Jul 08 17:34:45 <kelvie_work> well forking I think is completely fine
Jul 08 17:34:49 <Dave> I think I did that last night and the phone didn't run well after that, e.g. the power button no longer worked :P
Jul 08 17:34:59 <kelvie_work> just merge the upstream back in
Jul 08 17:35:05 <Dave> so it *would* stand to reason then that it does handle button presses :p
Jul 08 17:35:22 <lindi-> kelvie_work: xorg does not accept GPL licensed code
Jul 08 17:35:27 <lindi-> kelvie_work: so you can't do it
Jul 08 17:35:29 <ecraven> Dave: it says buttons and wifi in the documentation
Jul 08 17:35:35 <kelvie_work> and licensing is another issue that often leaves me depressed :)
Jul 08 17:35:40 <lindi-> kelvie_work: and NoMachine is unlikely to relicense under MIT
Jul 08 17:35:42 <kelvie_work> like how we can't get ZFS on linux
Jul 08 17:35:45 <kelvie_work> ever
Jul 08 17:35:49 <pthorin> has anyone got wifi working? 
Jul 08 17:35:54 <ecraven> yes
Jul 08 17:35:55 <ecraven> me
Jul 08 17:36:06 <lindi-> kelvie_work: not so sure, ZFS copyrights are held by a company that just might relicense
Jul 08 17:36:30 <pthorin> ecraven: which image are you running? 
Jul 08 17:36:54 <kelvie_work> lindi-: Sun? isn't the whole point of the CDDL to be GPL incompatible? :p
Jul 08 17:36:55 <ecraven> the original one
Jul 08 17:37:03 <ecraven> i've been trying to boot from SD for a day now, no success at all ;(
Jul 08 17:37:09 <lindi-> kelvie_work: yes, but they might change their mind
Jul 08 17:37:12 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r6fe8b748c90e 10/odeviced/src/plugins/rtc/rtc.vala: fix possible multiple set_wakeup_time attempts
Jul 08 17:37:13 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r1548bb92e876 10/odeviced/src/ (daemon/service.vala plugins/power/power.vala): Make full use of 'capacity' node if it exists
Jul 08 17:37:23 <kelvie_work> well I have my figers crossed :)
Jul 08 17:37:27 <pthorin> ecraven: oh ok, are you using an open wifi? 
Jul 08 17:37:36 <ecraven> no, wpa2
Jul 08 17:37:49 <pthorin> how do you configure it? 
Jul 08 17:37:52 <ecraven> pthorin: i edited /etc/networking/interfaces
Jul 08 17:37:58 <pthorin> oooh
Jul 08 17:38:05 <ecraven> pthorin: like it said on the wiki, also /etc/wpa_supplicant/..
Jul 08 17:38:11 <ecraven> it's on the wiki somewhere
Jul 08 17:38:18 <pthorin> oh ok, I missed that one, cheers
Jul 08 17:38:28 <ecraven> pthorin: don't do any of the other stuff though
Jul 08 17:38:31 <ecraven> that's all that's needed :)
Jul 08 17:39:03 <Danker> "On Monday, April 28, 2008 Hans Reiser was found guilty of first degree murder.[43] He faced a sentence of 25 years to life in prison.[44] Sentencing was set for July 9th 2008." poor guy...
Jul 08 17:39:23 <pthorin> ecraven: cool
Jul 08 17:39:40 <ezekiel-v3> Danker: but then yesterday he led the police to her body
Jul 08 17:39:41 <Dave> I did it with simple wifi yesterday
Jul 08 17:39:52 <ezekiel-v3> two days before sentencing
Jul 08 17:39:54 <Danker> Yap...
Jul 08 17:40:00 <ecraven> argl, now do i actually have to recompile neod??
Jul 08 17:40:04 <Danker> 25 years is too cruel....
Jul 08 17:40:31 <Dave> muwahahaha
Jul 08 17:41:34 <ecraven> who is that 'marcus' who replied he recompiled neod?
Jul 08 17:41:44 <Dave> Yeah, I'm not entirely sure.
Jul 08 17:43:44 <ecraven> how do i check out from the openmoko source? svn co http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/...??
Jul 08 17:45:44 <Flinx> Hello all!
Jul 08 17:45:55 <z0idberg_> ecraven: without the "web" in the hostname. like svn co http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src
Jul 08 17:46:09 <ecraven> z0idberg_: thanks, i tried svn://svn. and svn://svnweb. :(
Jul 08 17:46:15 <ecraven> seems i missed the correct one :)
Jul 08 17:48:03 <Flinx> Probably a Silly question but I'm going to ask anyways... -- The current version of the Freerunner does -not- support 3G?
Jul 08 17:48:23 <nuclear_eclipse> correct
Jul 08 17:48:53 <ecraven> can anyone explain to me how to compile neod for the FR?
Jul 08 17:49:08 <nuclear_eclipse> ecraven: cross your fingers and tap your heels?
Jul 08 17:49:49 <Tanuva> what does TTFF (gps context) mean?
Jul 08 17:50:01 <Flinx> *chuckles*
Jul 08 17:50:10 <nuclear_eclipse> Tanuva: Time To First Fix
Jul 08 17:50:19 <kelvie_work> through the fire and the flames?
Jul 08 17:50:22 <Flinx> *secretly wonders if his Credit card will handle the cost of an OpenMoko*
Jul 08 17:50:31 <Flinx> **... Freerunner*
Jul 08 17:50:35 <Tanuva> nuclear_eclipse: ahaaa! thanks :)
Jul 08 17:50:43 <nuclear_eclipse> Flinx: it's not quite secret if you tell everyone ;)
Jul 08 17:50:46 <Tanuva> kelvie_work: \m/ !
Jul 08 17:50:47 <nuclear_eclipse> Tanuva: yw
Jul 08 17:50:54 <Flinx> GASP!
Jul 08 17:50:56 <Flinx> your right!
Jul 08 17:52:45 <ecraven> is there still work going on on 2007.2??
Jul 08 17:52:52 <Dave> ecraven, I'm checking it out :p
Jul 08 17:53:00 <Dave> not that, but the neod compilation :P
Jul 08 17:53:07 <Dave> it'd be nice without having to recompile -everything-
Jul 08 17:54:09 <ecraven> Dave: that must be possible, i'm just installing the arm crosscompiler
Jul 08 17:54:19 <mjr> ecraven, the infant SHR project aims to take the gtk phone stuff from there and adapt it on top of FSO
Jul 08 17:56:52 <Flinx> Hrm..
Jul 08 17:59:18 <ecraven> Dave: hm.. i'll try to compile *on* the FR, crosscompilation is too much work :(
Jul 08 17:59:47 <lindi-> too much work?
Jul 08 18:00:02 <LionKMP> make
Jul 08 18:00:06 <LionKMP> :)
Jul 08 18:00:55 <ecraven> LionKMP: only if everything is set up correctly
Jul 08 18:01:32 <ecraven> lindi-: if you can tell me how to set everything up.. :) 
Jul 08 18:01:47 <lindi-> ecraven: to add new app or to modify existing?
Jul 08 18:01:54 <ecraven> lindi-: recompile neod
Jul 08 18:02:03 <lindi-> ecraven: what distro do you have?
Jul 08 18:02:07 <ecraven> arch linux
Jul 08 18:02:19 <lindi-> i need to figure out this myself too so i'll let you know if i manage to do it :)
Jul 08 18:02:36 <lindi-> at least i got emulation work eÅnicely
Jul 08 18:04:01 <ecraven> lindi-: seems i need to do some programming before i can use the FR :)
Jul 08 18:04:35 <lindi-> ecraven: i assume you know C :)
Jul 08 18:04:40 <ecraven> yes
Jul 08 18:04:48 <ecraven> i've just never set up gcc for cross-compiling
Jul 08 18:05:10 <Guilt> hi. did i receive any messages and i didnt respond?
Jul 08 18:05:15 <abraxa_> ecraven: I'd suggest using the SDK
Jul 08 18:05:41 <ecraven> abraxa_: how.. ;) i got the toolchain, but how do i use that with the autogen.sh from neod??
Jul 08 18:06:47 <abraxa_> ecraven: I'm afraid I never used it myself. However, there's a nice introduction on the wiki about it.
Jul 08 18:07:31 <ecraven> abraxa_: there are nice articles about everything on the wiki, the main problem is finding out what applies to the FR, and what is 2 years old..
Jul 08 18:08:05 <Flinx> Sadface.. i can't afford a Freerunner right now :(
Jul 08 18:08:14 <methril|laptop> hi
Jul 08 18:08:18 <abraxa_> ecraven: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain should be pretty up-to-date.
Jul 08 18:11:02 <pthorin> yey, wlan is up!
Jul 08 18:11:27 <ecraven> pthorin: congratulations :)
Jul 08 18:11:35 <lindi-> ecraven: i'm settnig it up right now
Jul 08 18:11:53 <ecraven> lindi-: mind to tell me how?
Jul 08 18:12:00 <lindi-> ecraven: i don't know if it works yet :)
Jul 08 18:12:11 <lindi-> i'm writing everything down
Jul 08 18:12:20 <ecraven> i'm trying to compile on the FR, but it seems i'm missing pkg.m4, even though i installed pkgconfig
Jul 08 18:12:30 <lindi-> ecraven: at the moment reading   http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Mokomakefile
Jul 08 18:20:39 <ecraven> lindi-: ah, that looks good, thanks!
Jul 08 18:23:43 <ecraven> has anyone got their Freerunner to boot from SD?
Jul 08 18:23:44 <lindi-> i am bit confused, can i have it build for gta01 even though i have gta02?
Jul 08 18:24:00 <lindi-> and is it really building for arm and not x86?
Jul 08 18:25:34 <ecraven> can i access the boot env from a running system?
Jul 08 18:26:19 <ebbe> lindi-: You can build for x86, gta01 and gta02. This have to be specified before building with Mokomakefile
Jul 08 18:26:21 <abraxa_> ecraven: Last thing I heard was that boot from SD isn't working at the moment
Jul 08 18:26:59 <ecraven> abraxa_: do you know why?
Jul 08 18:27:02 <abraxa_> lindi-: The files for GTA01/02 are the same, just the final .jffs2 is different (among other distro-specific things)
Jul 08 18:28:16 <lindi-> abraxa_: so  MACHINE = "om-gta01" is ok even though i have freerunner?
Jul 08 18:28:37 <lindi-> i also have DISTRO = "openmoko"  and BUILD_ARCH = "i686" .. will this still build arm binaries?
Jul 08 18:29:08 <lindi-> ecraven: i heard it was uboot bug
Jul 08 18:29:27 <ecraven> so i might flash a new uboot?
Jul 08 18:29:48 <lindi-> i donn't know details sorry
Jul 08 18:29:59 <ebbe> lindi-: I think you can define these things with the makefile
Jul 08 18:30:18 <ebbe> Something with set-machine or something
Jul 08 18:30:21 <abraxa_> ecraven: No idea, sorry. If it doesn't work, please write a mail to openmoko-devel and ask about the status.
Jul 08 18:30:54 <lindi-> ebbe: i only found those i quoted
Jul 08 18:31:20 <ebbe> lindi-: I mean you have to do "make set-something"
Jul 08 18:31:29 <leinir> Minor glitch on the wiki's ASU Feature Plan - Template:FeatureDene :) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/ASU_Feature_Plan
Jul 08 18:32:20 <lindi-> ebbe: there are setup-* targets?
Jul 08 18:32:55 <ebbe> lindi-: Sounds good, but I can't really tell you more, because I haven't really used it. Just tried it some months ago
Jul 08 18:33:14 <abraxa_> lindi-: You'd be better off using om-gta02 but there shouldn't be a problem in general I don't think.
Jul 08 18:33:19 <lindi-> ebbe: ok
Jul 08 18:34:28 <lindi-> ebbe: it created ./build/tmp/staging/i686-linux/usr/bin/flex: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.4.1, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.4.1, not stripped
Jul 08 18:34:33 <Virusmaster> yaaaaay.. my moko is here... -eom-
Jul 08 18:34:34 <lindi-> ebbe: so it's creating x86 binaries :(
Jul 08 18:34:34 <Virusmaster> :P
Jul 08 18:34:46 <Tanuva> there's no mp3 codec for gstreamer available yet, is it? [just had a look at the buildhost, nothing interesting found]
Jul 08 18:35:31 <abraxa_> lindi-: It does create some i686 binaries for the cross-compiler, so I wouldn't worry
Jul 08 18:35:31 <Savago> @all: is anyone working with calendar/contacts synchronization?
Jul 08 18:35:37 <lindi-> abraxa_: ok
Jul 08 18:35:41 <ebbe> Ahh yes
Jul 08 18:36:44 <abraxa_> Savago: What's your question?
Jul 08 18:37:04 <abraxa_> Tanuva: Yeah there is - lame
Jul 08 18:37:15 <Savago> a) What is possible to do today with openmoko? (i.e. Is possible to sync with google calendar for example?)
Jul 08 18:37:39 <Savago> b) If negative, is anyone working to address that?
Jul 08 18:38:21 <ebbe> Savago: I'm actually playing with Google synchronization right now
Jul 08 18:39:01 <Tanuva> abraxa_: oh. yes. I see. opkg just got a job.. :)
Jul 08 18:39:12 <Savago> ebbe, nice! Is that working? :-)
Jul 08 18:39:20 <abraxa_> Tanuva: Yeah. http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/gst-plugin-mad_0.10.7-r0_armv4t.ipk is what you'll most likely want
Jul 08 18:39:52 <ebbe> Savago: Nothing is really working right now, but I hope it will in the next few days
Jul 08 18:40:01 <abraxa_> Savago: Please be aware that there are different software stacks available and they all offer different feature sets
Jul 08 18:40:19 <Savago> How is sync being done? Is it using EDS?
Jul 08 18:40:48 <abraxa_> Savago: 2007.2 does, others not so
Jul 08 18:41:29 <Savago> abraxa_ && ebbe:  and what about google contacts?
Jul 08 18:41:39 <ebbe> I'm creating a module-like synchronization, so it will be extendible to many different servers/files
Jul 08 18:42:04 <abraxa_> ebbe: For 2007.2? Or what are you creating that for?
Jul 08 18:42:09 <ebbe> Maybe I'll do contacts when I'm done
Jul 08 18:42:33 <Savago> ebbe, so, if I got it correctly, you are doing that for EDS?
Jul 08 18:42:40 <Savago> What about opensync?
Jul 08 18:42:41 <Savago> :-)
Jul 08 18:43:05 <ebbe> abraxa_: I'm creating it for everything.. It's in python, and with modules to someday support EDS and Google
Jul 08 18:43:40 <abraxa_> ebbe: Mind elaborating a little? Maybe a collaboration makes sense.
Jul 08 18:43:43 <ebbe> But right now it's only Google and a ics-file
Jul 08 18:44:57 <MarcOChapeau> good evening
Jul 08 18:45:10 <Savago> I had being playing with google data protocols in the last months.
Jul 08 18:45:13 <MarcOChapeau> I have to confess something...
Jul 08 18:45:20 <ebbe> abraxa_: I'll first make a simple backend, and then people can make modules for it
Jul 08 18:45:28 * MarcOChapeau is touching a freerunner with his bare hands
Jul 08 18:45:52 <MarcOChapeau> sorry, I really had to do that :-)
Jul 08 18:45:58 <abraxa_> ebbe: What is the end result? A contact manager?
Jul 08 18:46:18 <ebbe> abraxa_: Calendar synchronization
Jul 08 18:46:23 <Tanuva> MarcOChapeau: I was like this yesterday, too. really nice feeling, isnt it? :)
Jul 08 18:46:23 <Savago> ebbe, is it OSS/Freesoftware?
Jul 08 18:46:36 <ebbe> Savago: Of course :)
Jul 08 18:47:05 <abraxa_> ebbe: Hm, okay. Reason I'm asking is because I'm constructing the new PIM infrastructure and I'd hate to see duplicate efforts.
Jul 08 18:47:21 <MarcOChapeau> Tanuva: he, yeah. I'm fighting a bit with the software, but the hardware looks neat
Jul 08 18:47:32 <Savago> ebbe, I just don't get the scope of your project... it implements google data protocol only?
Jul 08 18:47:38 <ebbe> abraxa_: I'm waiting with anything specific for the Neo
Jul 08 18:47:45 <Savago> Or it handle synchronization too?
Jul 08 18:47:51 <Tanuva> MarcOChapeau: same here. wifi and gps dont want like i want them to, but its all gonna fit someday.. :D
Jul 08 18:48:31 <abraxa_> ebbe: Makes sense. Calendar has to wait a bit anyway for me, so maybe you can gain some experience in the meanwhile.
Jul 08 18:48:33 <MarcOChapeau> Tanuva: I'm testing stuff from the command line. that's the most reliable we have now, and I don't really mind
Jul 08 18:48:33 <Tanuva> *shuddering* my neo plays music... :]
Jul 08 18:48:52 <Savago> abraxa_, are you envolved with this: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/PIM_Storage
Jul 08 18:48:54 <Savago> ?
Jul 08 18:48:54 <ebbe> Savago: Don't know how else to explain it
Jul 08 18:48:55 <Savago> :-)
Jul 08 18:49:02 <Tanuva> MarcOChapeau: yep, bless the usb networking :D
Jul 08 18:49:35 <abraxa_> Savago: Yeah. Though it's http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenmokoFramework#PIM to be more precise (the PIM Storage page is out-of-date for now)
Jul 08 18:49:51 <ebbe> It will be extendible with modules to support the new framework for OM. Right now I'm just making modules for Google and ics-files
Jul 08 18:50:11 <ebbe> This way I can test it alot on my own computer
Jul 08 18:50:20 <MarcOChapeau> Tanuva: oh, my mouse is 3 pixels away from a tangogps ipkg...
Jul 08 18:50:45 <Tanuva> MarcOChapeau: opkg install tangogps does the job, no mouse needed. but I wont get a fix here yet..
Jul 08 18:51:05 <Savago> abraxa_, this concept of intelligent storage remember Akonadi.
Jul 08 18:51:11 <Tanuva> (provided you have forwarding enabled on your host)
Jul 08 18:51:45 <abraxa_> Savago: Akonadi... *shudders*. I read a research paper about it and couldn't help but shake my head, I'm afraid
Jul 08 18:51:54 <Savago> Eheheheheh...
Jul 08 18:52:03 <Savago> abraxa_, I assume that you are coding in C?
Jul 08 18:52:06 <ebbe> Savago: Do you understand what I'm making now?
Jul 08 18:52:15 <MarcOChapeau> Tanuva: ah, nice. that's what I ws looking for
Jul 08 18:52:38 <Savago> ebbe, more or less. Do you have a webpage? Or maybe the svn/git/whatever?
Jul 08 18:52:38 <abraxa_> Savago: Python - if it works as desired and is too slow, I'll add parts in C to remove bottlenecks
Jul 08 18:53:20 <Savago> abraxa_, I had being developing an ANSI C library to handle google calendar and contacts.
Jul 08 18:53:33 <ebbe> Savago: I have a git, but my code is still too ugly yet, as I've only started the day before yesterday
Jul 08 18:53:34 * Savago old school...
Jul 08 18:53:35 <Savago> :-D
Jul 08 18:53:47 <ebbe> Savago: I'll make it available soon
Jul 08 18:53:57 <abraxa_> Savago: That might come in handy as a reference. Did you publish it somewhere?
Jul 08 18:54:05 <Savago> ebbe, release it early! :-)
Jul 08 18:54:13 <Savago> abraxa_,  http://libgcal.googlecode.com/
Jul 08 18:54:26 <Savago> Its BSD licensed.
Jul 08 18:54:31 <ebbe> Savago: Yes yes! I know :) Tomorrow maybe
Jul 08 18:54:47 <Savago> I'm planning to integrate it in something that would do the sync part.
Jul 08 18:54:54 <Savago> Since talking with google server is done.
Jul 08 18:55:00 <abraxa_> Savago: Thank you, I'll bookmark it
Jul 08 18:55:27 <Savago> abraxa_, had you considered using opensync?
Jul 08 18:55:38 <ecraven> abraxa_: looks interesting :)
Jul 08 18:56:13 <abraxa_> Savago: Yeah. Quite honestly, syncing is out of my scope for the next few weeks as I need to get the core parts going first
Jul 08 18:56:28 <Savago> abraxa_, what is missing?
Jul 08 18:56:51 <abraxa_> Savago: Everything? I'm starting from scratch :)
Jul 08 18:57:04 <Savago> Ah... ok.
Jul 08 18:57:22 <Savago> Does it need to be done in python? (I mean, the google protocol part...)?
Jul 08 18:58:05 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r53bccb703a7b 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/ (4 files in 3 dirs): 
Jul 08 18:58:05 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: refactor MUXing knowledge out of gsm.VirtualChannel into the specific modems
Jul 08 18:58:05 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: as factory function 'pathfactory'.
Jul 08 18:58:34 <abraxa_> Savago: You wrote a library, so writing a wrapper for it to be used in python shouldn't be a problem
Jul 08 18:58:54 <Savago> yeah, I think so. :-)
Jul 08 19:00:10 <abraxa_> Savago: If you'd like to know why I didn't make use of EDS, feel free to have a look at http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2008-July/003379.html
Jul 08 19:00:45 * Savago checking...
Jul 08 19:01:34 <ebbe> Ahh, yes, I started that thread.. :)
Jul 08 19:02:13 <abraxa_> ebbe: Oh, that was you? Haha, nice to get to talk to you then :)
Jul 08 19:02:40 <ebbe> abraxa_: And now you know why I asked.
Jul 08 19:02:48 <abraxa_> Indeed
Jul 08 19:02:55 <timo_ffm> Hi all
Jul 08 19:03:56 <abraxa_> ebbe: I personally dislike the current situation (I know people want to get going with development) but at the same time I don't want to see people put effort into work that will become obsolete later on. It might disappoint them and drive them away from Openmoko.
Jul 08 19:03:56 <timo_ffm> hey anybody there who knows details about the sound system on the freerunner
Jul 08 19:04:10 <abraxa_> ebbe: Hence why I'm so verbose on these issues
Jul 08 19:04:15 <SpeedEvil> timo_ffm: yes
Jul 08 19:04:34 <ebbe> abraxa_: I understand completely
Jul 08 19:05:12 <Savago> abraxa_, do you have published your code somewhere?
Jul 08 19:05:14 <timo_ffm> I just compiled pjsip on my phone it is a sip implementation and it works but i coud not connect it to the right sound device
Jul 08 19:05:23 <abraxa_> ebbe: However, if you can gain experience with calendars that we can draw from, that's good.
Jul 08 19:05:41 <SpeedEvil> timo_ffm: the sound syste is unfortunately complex.
Jul 08 19:06:03 <timo_ffm> i see openmoko used pulseaudio server
Jul 08 19:06:09 <SpeedEvil> timo_ffm: there are three A/Ds, two D/As, and 96 mixers.
Jul 08 19:06:13 <abraxa_> Savago: Not at the moment, as the API isn't stable yet. I don't want to put something out there that keeps on breaking people's clients and confuses them.
Jul 08 19:06:18 <timo_ffm> the madplayer do not play audio files at my phnoe
Jul 08 19:06:51 <timo_ffm> ok
Jul 08 19:07:25 <timo_ffm> hmm
Jul 08 19:07:27 <SpeedEvil> search the wiki for sound state
Jul 08 19:09:06 <Savago> abraxa_, release early + release often. ;-)
Jul 08 19:10:52 <ecraven> if i have a recipe (for example scummvm.bb), how do i create an ipkg?
Jul 08 19:12:43 <Tanuva> does the om stack rely on having no root password set? (-> will it break if I set one?)
Jul 08 19:13:53 <abraxa_> Savago: I will, in due time :)
Jul 08 19:19:40 <Dave> ecraven, still around?
Jul 08 19:19:58 <Dave> Are we porting games to the phone now? :D
Jul 08 19:20:37 <Dave> damn I need to speed up the readings from the accel
Jul 08 19:21:17 <ecraven> aye
Jul 08 19:21:24 <ecraven> hehe, the main reason i got an FR is scummvm!!
Jul 08 19:21:30 <Dave> haha, hot :P
Jul 08 19:21:39 <ecraven> i want to get the ASU running asap, then work on that
Jul 08 19:21:45 <Dave> I'm still fooling with the accelerometer :P
Jul 08 19:21:46 <ecraven> i don't like gnome much for programming, i prefer qt
Jul 08 19:21:50 <Dave> ah
Jul 08 19:21:56 <Dave> good luck
Jul 08 19:22:01 <ecraven> did you get neod recompiled?
Jul 08 19:22:08 <Dave> I tried it first, and it essentially took a dump in my face :D
Jul 08 19:22:09 <Tanuva> ahm. I'm just reading the discussion about sdcard detection/kernel modules on the devel-ml. why do we have to "detect" if a sd-card is inserted? we can't get it in there while the device is running anyway....
Jul 08 19:22:28 <Dave> ecraven, nah, but was working on it earlier until I had a 1.5hr meeting -_-
Jul 08 19:22:33 <Dave> which I just got out of :P
Jul 08 19:23:43 <Dave> Anyhow, time for some lunch, and then more Freerunner fun!
Jul 08 19:23:48 <Dave> and frustration ;)
Jul 08 19:30:23 <BitWraith> does anybody know if the freerunner can be overclocked? I haven't seen it working yet, s for all I know 400Mhz might be enough, but I am curious.
Jul 08 19:31:22 <Tanuva> I wouldnt risk that. you cant take the nearest soldering iron and get a new cpu...
Jul 08 19:31:27 <Dave> Yes, I believe you can have it run at 500MHz
Jul 08 19:31:29 <Dave> :x
Jul 08 19:31:43 <Dave> I know you can make it get hot :D
Jul 08 19:31:45 <TAsn> BitWraith, would you really want to consume more power? ;)
Jul 08 19:31:47 <Tanuva> :D
Jul 08 19:31:54 <zash> but that wont work wery well due to bus clocks
Jul 08 19:31:58 <Tanuva> I would rather think of underclocking id
Jul 08 19:32:00 <Tanuva> *it
Jul 08 19:32:03 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rcb0bd076617b 10/framework/ (7 files in 4 dirs): ogsmd: add skeleton for Motorola EZX modem support, see http://www.openezx.org
Jul 08 19:32:17 <TAsn> Tanuva,  lol yeah :)
Jul 08 19:32:19 <ecraven> Dave: i'll join in on the frustration when i flash ASU, and everything breaks ;)
Jul 08 19:32:29 <zash> isnt there a slow mode, 12Mhz?
Jul 08 19:32:37 <ecraven> out of interest, what happens if i flash a broken uboot? how do i recover?
Jul 08 19:33:04 <Tanuva> dunno... but maybe just enough to have it play some mp3s and do *nothing* else (except waiting for calls etc, but no fast gui)
Jul 08 19:33:14 <Tanuva> ecraven: from the NOR uboot
Jul 08 19:33:36 <BitWraith> I hve a 416Mhz Zauru now, and I think it is a little on the slow side... but it has more work to do because it has no hw accel... it's on a framebuffer.
Jul 08 19:33:57 <Tanuva> the glamo just does really basic acceleration until now
Jul 08 19:34:39 <BitWraith> aside from file storage, keyboard, and USB the specs are the same or better on the FR
Jul 08 19:35:13 <BitWraith> does FR have USB (maybe OTG) for syncing?
Jul 08 19:35:39 <Tanuva> afaik usb is only network-able, no mass storage if you mean that
Jul 08 19:36:27 <BitWraith> OTG means it becomes a host port or peripherals when the proper adapter is used
Jul 08 19:36:28 <mjr> Network by default, but sure you can use it as mass storage. Need to unmount the volume on the neo side though; networking is more flexible.
Jul 08 19:36:40 <mjr> it's not OTG, but it can act as a host
Jul 08 19:37:08 <BitWraith> it is... networking seems to work better  on the Z as well, but d0z3 machines can't handle it without hacking
Jul 08 19:37:17 <buffet> any idea how soon can we expect 900Mhz version from web store?
Jul 08 19:37:47 <Tanuva> mjr: but which volume would be accessible then? the sdcard?
Jul 08 19:38:49 <BitWraith> I have one more tupid question: what kind of graphics subsytem does it use? X11? QT? something you guys came up with?
Jul 08 19:38:53 <mjr> Tanuva, any partition or image you want
Jul 08 19:38:58 <mjr> BitWraith, X11
Jul 08 19:39:11 <BitWraith> w00t :-)
Jul 08 19:39:44 <mjr> (note that there's no gooey stuff for anything mass storageish, but the kernel support is there)
Jul 08 19:40:35 <lindi-> BitWraith: if you have vnc you can try my emulated openmoko over internet
Jul 08 19:41:11 <BitWraith> I wonder how it does with basic GL apps... ex, bzflag. I know that's pushing it, but it would be awesome
Jul 08 19:41:47 <Qwell> might require a bit of porting.  Ask TimRiker :D
Jul 08 19:41:55 <BitWraith> lindi-, I believe I do have vnc installed here, although I haven't used it on *nix before
Jul 08 19:42:10 <Qwell> (I assume he still maintains bzflag)
Jul 08 19:43:59 <bkruse> Qwell: !
Jul 08 19:44:04 <Qwell> bkruse: !
Jul 08 19:44:17 * bkruse invites jbot into openmoko 
Jul 08 19:44:28 <Qwell> apt: jbot
Jul 08 19:44:29 <apt> hmm... jbot is a hack!, or known to have only said one useful thing. a tool, or dating the fembots, or  [TK]D-Fender's b*tch, or suck, or a pain in the ass
Jul 08 19:44:41 <Qwell> a bot with many names...
Jul 08 19:46:50 <bkruse> Qwell: Nice.
Jul 08 20:00:02 <torpor> yo
Jul 08 20:05:26 <benlake> Are they slow on shipping or did we buy backordered product?
Jul 08 20:06:32 <ecraven> do i need to be in the nand boot menu, to use dfu-util?
Jul 08 20:06:53 <pthorin> benlake: I believe they are shipping as fast as new units become available, they are still being produced
Jul 08 20:07:17 <Tanuva> ecraven: the getting started page says: "only flash from nor uboot"
Jul 08 20:09:20 <benlake> I see.
Jul 08 20:12:03 <pthorin> benlake: I ordered mine on June 29 and got it today from handheld-linux.com
Jul 08 20:12:43 <benlake> I ordered mine on openmoko.com July 4, w/ overnight shipping
Jul 08 20:13:13 <benlake> so was just wondering when the box is going to get sealed :P
Jul 08 20:13:18 <Dave> ecraven, for flashing?
Jul 08 20:13:26 <ecraven> Dave: aye
Jul 08 20:13:27 <hirolau> hmm, the gsm 900 model is not avaliable at the store, is it sold out, not manifactured yet or only sold though retailers?
Jul 08 20:13:58 <Dave> boot into NOR
Jul 08 20:14:09 <Dave> then run dfu-util to flash the phone
Jul 08 20:14:09 <kdean06> hirolau, Sold out.
Jul 08 20:14:21 <ecraven> it doesn't work in NAND flash?
Jul 08 20:14:34 <kdean06> http://www.techworld.com.au/article/252142/freerunner_linux_phone_sells_more_way
Jul 08 20:16:23 <Tanuva> aaahm... my gtk-neo just "closed its eye" which rises a question: asu has some menu to do it, but how to I set blank/suspend-time in the gtk-stack?
Jul 08 20:17:06 <hirolau> ohh, too bad, I want one
Jul 08 20:18:14 <p0seidon23> hi there! has anybody tangoGPS running on a freerunner?
Jul 08 20:18:19 <p0seidon23> it just wont work for me#
Jul 08 20:19:21 <abraxa_> p0seidon23: Works here. Did you install gpsd or gypsy?
Jul 08 20:19:41 <p0seidon23> gpds
Jul 08 20:19:44 <p0seidon23> gpsd
Jul 08 20:20:00 <p0seidon23> im not sure wether i need this on freerunner
Jul 08 20:20:21 <wurp2|away> Tanuva: afaik there is no way on the gtk stack
Jul 08 20:20:25 <Tanuva> gpsd seems to work here, I just cant get a fix... but didnt try too intensively yet
Jul 08 20:20:31 <Tanuva> wurp2|away: hmm...
Jul 08 20:20:37 <wurp2|away> p0seidon23: Have you checked that you're getting a gps fix?
Jul 08 20:20:38 <abraxa_> p0seidon23: You do, as the GPS hardware doesn't provide access over UDP sockets
Jul 08 20:20:58 <p0seidon23> if i use the AGPS tool from openmoko I get a fix
Jul 08 20:21:01 <Tanuva> wurp2|away: seems like I have to write some media player for asu :D
Jul 08 20:21:06 <wurp2|away> Tanuva: There is probably a config file or gconfd interface somewhere for it, but I've never seen it mentioned
Jul 08 20:21:11 <p0seidon23> but tangoGPS still does not show any values
Jul 08 20:21:24 <wurp2|away> p0seidon23: Is your gpsd config pointed to /dev/ttySAC1 (or maybe it's 0, not sure, I don't have a FR)
Jul 08 20:21:28 <wurp2|away> I have a gta01
Jul 08 20:21:39 <p0seidon23> config is to dev/ttySAC1
Jul 08 20:21:57 <wurp2|away> p0seidon23: Then I dunno what's wrong :-(
Jul 08 20:22:18 <wurp2|away> p0seidon23: Can you config tangogps to look directly at nmea output?  If so, make it look directly at ttySAC1
Jul 08 20:22:22 <p0seidon23> or is it a problem to have the APGS tool and the gpsd running at the same time ?
Jul 08 20:22:38 <p0seidon23> thx wurp2
Jul 08 20:22:41 <wurp2|away> p0seidon23: I don't think so, but try it without :-)
Jul 08 20:22:51 <p0seidon23> i will investigate further
Jul 08 20:22:54 <wurp2|away> Tanuva: Or use GTK
Jul 08 20:23:07 <p0seidon23> but it's hard. i can only test outdoors ;-)
Jul 08 20:23:32 <wurp2|away> Tanuva: Or can you not tolerate the suspend interval on gtk?  I did't think phone calls worked at all reliably on ASU, but it's been a while since I've heard a report
Jul 08 20:23:54 <abraxa_> p0seidon23: Power up the GPS and try a "gpsd -n -N -D 2 /dev/ttySAC1". It should show you the NMEA output
Jul 08 20:24:03 <p0seidon23> ok, will try
Jul 08 20:24:23 <Tanuva> wurp2|away: I would like to set it depending on if Im out or if the neo is connected to my pc anyway - the former requires shorter blank times :)
Jul 08 20:24:38 <SpeedEvil> or cat /dev/ttySAC1
Jul 08 20:24:41 <Tanuva> but since we would want to change to asu at some point anyway...
Jul 08 20:24:44 <SpeedEvil> A cat is fine too.
Jul 08 20:25:09 <abraxa_> SpeedEvil: Indeed, though I'd like to know whether gpsd works for him
Jul 08 20:25:28 <wurp2|away> Tanuva: You probably don't want to suspend at all connected to the PC...
Jul 08 20:25:35 <Tanuva> wurp2|away: thats my point
Jul 08 20:25:47 <wurp2|away> Tanuva: I think we want to change to SHR ;-)
Jul 08 20:26:00 <SpeedEvil> abraxa_: Yeah - cat is most basic, and doens't need configured.
Jul 08 20:26:23 <Tanuva> wurp2|away: if this thing is starting to really exist...
Jul 08 20:26:34 <wurp2|away> We do still need another media player, regardless.
Jul 08 20:26:39 <Tanuva> I would prefer fso, but that will take some more time
Jul 08 20:26:42 <wurp2|away> Tanuva: not yet :-(
Jul 08 20:26:53 <wurp2|away> Tanuva: SHR is FSO + gtk apps
Jul 08 20:26:57 <ecraven> why shr, and not asu?
Jul 08 20:27:00 <wurp2|away> s/is/will be/
Jul 08 20:27:01 <apt> wurp2|away meant: Tanuva: SHR will be FSO + gtk apps
Jul 08 20:27:19 <wurp2|away> ecraven: 'cause shr will be on FSO's backbone before ASU is
Jul 08 20:27:27 <p0seidon23> tangoGPS connected correctly to gpsd and also provides gps time
Jul 08 20:27:27 <Tanuva> ecraven: because fso has a much better backbone 
Jul 08 20:27:39 <ezekiel-v3> wow, apt - that's pretty special
Jul 08 20:27:41 <ecraven> now if i knew what fso was.. *blush*
Jul 08 20:27:47 <ezekiel-v3> good lil infobot
Jul 08 20:27:53 <Tanuva> s/has/will have/
Jul 08 20:27:54 <apt> Tanuva meant: ecraven: because fso will have a much better backbone 
Jul 08 20:27:58 <Tanuva> apt works :]
Jul 08 20:28:06 <ecraven> p0seidon23: that's how far i got, no fix forever..
Jul 08 20:28:07 <abraxa_> p0seidon23: Then you're set. Try holding the FR to the window, it should get a fix within minutes
Jul 08 20:28:30 <ecraven> abraxa_: i tried, no fix after 10 minutes outside, almost no clouds, no houses within 50 metres
Jul 08 20:28:31 <p0seidon23> ok thanks. i will try
Jul 08 20:28:42 <ecraven> does tangogps work on asu?
Jul 08 20:28:45 <abraxa_> ecraven: Did you see Steve's mail on community about that?
Jul 08 20:28:51 <ecraven> "that"?
Jul 08 20:29:05 <abraxa_> ecraven: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/020961.html
Jul 08 20:30:04 <Tanuva> hmm... ttySAC0 is the only one (of three) ttySACs that outputs anything - set /etc/defaults/gpsd to point at it, but gpsd still complains about it not being a gps device...
Jul 08 20:30:23 <ecraven> i think the gps is ttySAC1, not 0
Jul 08 20:30:49 <p0seidon23> ecraven: right, gps is SAC1
Jul 08 20:31:14 <Tanuva> ah damn, I powered the chip down with the test tool, there cant be coming anything out of it
Jul 08 20:31:18 <wurp2|away> Tanuva: Actually, the FSO backbone is the most stable for calls & suspend/resume on GSM right now
Jul 08 20:31:50 <wurp2|away> Which is why we're working on SHR right now, so we can have stable calls + reasonable battery life + the stuff we had in 2007.2
Jul 08 20:31:51 <ecraven> hehe, i like the boots while booting..
Jul 08 20:31:53 <Tanuva> wurp2|away: which makes it interesting as a backup-like sd-dualboot-solution...
Jul 08 20:32:14 <cl0s> anybody using an openmoko on at&t?
Jul 08 20:32:15 <wurp2|away> And eventually + the gui toolkits that ASU adds, although it may not be shr by that point
Jul 08 20:32:24 <wurp2|away> Tanuva: yeah, that's a great idea
Jul 08 20:32:26 <Tanuva> wurp2|away: Im looking forward to that... having concurrent stacks isnt really optimal
Jul 08 20:32:30 <wurp2|away> cl0s: I do
Jul 08 20:32:32 <wurp2|away> Not FR
Jul 08 20:32:44 <aevin> is it normal to get messages of «$GPTXT,01,01,01,NMEA unknown msg*58» from the ublox gps /dev/ttySAC1 when receiving no satellites?
Jul 08 20:32:53 <cl0s> wurp2|away: you get Internet with the Media Max data palns?
Jul 08 20:32:59 <wurp2|away> cl0s: exactly
Jul 08 20:33:05 <ecraven> aevin: i get that too
Jul 08 20:33:10 <ecraven> and i've seen others report it
Jul 08 20:33:16 <wurp2|away> cl0s: I put the connection config on the wiki's gprs page
Jul 08 20:33:28 <cl0s> like browsing, downloading, if i hook it up to my pc (and set it up) i can use it as a wireless router kinda..?
Jul 08 20:33:43 <cl0s> thanks wurp2|away, where do you live by the way if you dont mind me asking..
Jul 08 20:33:57 <Avenged-Revenge> has anyone done anything with the accelerometers? 
Jul 08 20:34:01 <wurp2|away> Yep to the first two, for the last one, that's FR specific, but on a point-2-point network it should work
Jul 08 20:34:04 <cl0s> link also.. thanks :)
Jul 08 20:34:09 <SpeedEvil> aevin: yhes
Jul 08 20:34:14 <SpeedEvil> aevin: till it gets sats
Jul 08 20:34:23 <wurp2|away> Avenged-Revenge: Check out the Google Summer of Code pages on the wiki
Jul 08 20:34:38 <wurp2|away> cl0s: Dallas/Fort Worth area, Texas
Jul 08 20:34:44 <SpeedEvil> aevin: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS#GTA02_GPS
Jul 08 20:34:59 <wurp2|away> cl0s, Avenged-Revenge: google site:wiki.openmoko.org <search terms> for URLs :-)
Jul 08 20:34:59 <aevin> SpeedEvil: okay, thanks for your help :)
Jul 08 20:35:25 <Avenged-Revenge> wurp2|away: thanks
Jul 08 20:35:58 <TAsn> truebox has more mokos for the 18th shipment :)
Jul 08 20:36:04 <wurp2|away> Avenged-Revenge: welcome :-)
Jul 08 20:36:11 <cl0s> wurp2|away: thanks, u convinced me.. im in jersey but im getting mine
Jul 08 20:36:16 <TAsn> though i think i will just for the us to have a 900 phone and buy it there. :)
Jul 08 20:37:05 <TAsn> just wait*
Jul 08 20:37:13 <wurp2|away> cl0s: excellent
Jul 08 20:37:27 <wurp2|away> cl0s: You know calls are not 100% stable right now unless you run FSO?
Jul 08 20:37:38 <wurp2|away> And if you run FSO, calls & suspend/resume is all you get
Jul 08 20:37:44 <wurp2|away> well, plus sshd
Jul 08 20:38:05 <wurp2|away> And whatever you can install & hack into working on there, which afaik no one has done any of
Jul 08 20:38:09 <ecraven> hm.. i like asu :)
Jul 08 20:38:19 <wurp2|away> ecraven: You are running it?
Jul 08 20:38:27 <ecraven> yes, just flashed the images of today
Jul 08 20:38:30 <cl0s> not sure what FSO is but as long as most the time i can make and recieve calls even if it drops im cool with it
Jul 08 20:38:33 <ecraven> i'll try with gsm in a minute
Jul 08 20:38:40 <wurp2|away> Calls, sms, suspend/resume work?
Jul 08 20:38:44 <ecraven> no idea :)
Jul 08 20:38:44 <cl0s> oo
Jul 08 20:38:46 <wurp2|away> cl0s: You can do that
Jul 08 20:38:46 <SpeedEvil> FSO is the way of the future!
Jul 08 20:38:50 <SpeedEvil> In theory
Jul 08 20:38:50 <ecraven> how do i test suspend/resume?
Jul 08 20:38:52 <wurp2|away> ecraven: heh
Jul 08 20:38:58 <cjb> I think suspend/resume still has problems/crashes
Jul 08 20:39:01 <SpeedEvil> Everything will get moved to FSO.
Jul 08 20:39:01 <ecraven> i'll try calls and sms in a minute, need to put a sim in
Jul 08 20:39:05 <wurp2|away> ecraven: Try holding down the power button
Jul 08 20:39:18 <wurp2|away> SpeedEvil: I think everything will get rebased on FSO
Jul 08 20:39:21 <cl0s> alright cool.. def worth it for having an open  phone..
Jul 08 20:39:23 <wurp2|away> I think FSO will remain pure-ish
Jul 08 20:39:31 <wurp2|away> cl0s: I love mine
Jul 08 20:39:33 <ecraven> hm.. no gps app for asu ;(
Jul 08 20:39:33 <wurp2|away> Most of the time ;-)
Jul 08 20:39:48 <wurp2|away> ecraven: You should be able to opgk install tangogps, no?
Jul 08 20:40:04 <cl0s> lol cant be too different than a linux pc
Jul 08 20:40:05 <cl0s> hah
Jul 08 20:40:06 <SpeedEvil>  np: Grandmaster Flash - Rebase.
Jul 08 20:40:18 <ecraven> eh, my fault, wrong resolv.conf
Jul 08 20:40:41 <ecraven> wurp2|away: that menu has nothing about suspend/resume
Jul 08 20:41:10 <TAsn> wow, cool to be a candian, southpark were wrong! OM there is even cheaper than in the us, 400 candian
Jul 08 20:41:13 <TAsn> $
Jul 08 20:41:27 * nuclear_eclipse cries
Jul 08 20:41:34 <TAsn> or maybe that's without vat, well what the heck :)
Jul 08 20:41:52 <Tanuva> hmm. /etc/defaults/gpsd points at /dev/ttySAC1 and the tty produces some unfixed-gps-like output, but gpsd still says "no gps device"...
Jul 08 20:42:26 * swc|666 wonders when the hell OM is going to ship his order #1513
Jul 08 20:42:31 <SpeedEvil> tanner_: the GPS output the thing spits out before a lock contains no recognised GPS sentances.
Jul 08 20:42:31 <nuclear_eclipse> I never even thought I'd see the day where you canucks would break the $.75C -> $1US mark... :P
Jul 08 20:42:44 <wurp2|away> ecraven: Then I guess you don't have suspend/resume :-(
Jul 08 20:42:49 <nuclear_eclipse> and now all of a sudden yours is worth *more*!!
Jul 08 20:42:51 <SpeedEvil> tanner_: So GPSd probably won't detect it as a GPS device.
Jul 08 20:43:14 <wurp2|away> SpeedEvil: Who the hell's idea was that? ;-)
Jul 08 20:43:19 <ecraven> wurp2|away: it just says shut down
Jul 08 20:43:24 <Tanuva> SpeedEvil: you mean me, dont you? :)
Jul 08 20:43:43 <Tanuva> SpeedEvil: so I dont need to try to start gpsd before I got a fix.
Jul 08 20:43:49 <wurp2|away> ecraven: You could do it from the terminal if you look up the right place to echo to on the wiki
Jul 08 20:43:49 <SpeedEvil> Tanuva:" yes
Jul 08 20:44:09 <SpeedEvil> wurp2|away: idea was what?
Jul 08 20:44:12 <wurp2|away> Tanuva: You'll get used to SpeedEvil's bad tab completion if you stay here very long ;-)
Jul 08 20:44:21 <wurp2|away> SpeedEvil: Bad nmea sentences before fix
Jul 08 20:44:24 <SpeedEvil> I usually get better.
Jul 08 20:44:36 <Tanuva> wurp2|away: *fg*
Jul 08 20:44:43 <wurp2|away> SpeedEvil: Are you using irssi?
Jul 08 20:44:56 <SpeedEvil> wurp2|away: BitchX - that's not the issue though.
Jul 08 20:45:00 <wurp2|away> SpeedEvil: 'cause mine's smart enough to tab complete correctly almost always unless I fat finger
Jul 08 20:45:01 <ecraven> ah, why is tangogps.org down right now :(
Jul 08 20:45:13 <SpeedEvil> wurp2|away: The issue is I just type ccc: and then assume it'll complete right.
Jul 08 20:45:22 <wurp2|away> SpeedEvil: hah!
Jul 08 20:45:35 <nuclear_eclipse> is there a way to get irssi to tab complete ordering by last-message time rather than alphabetical?
Jul 08 20:45:36 <wurp2|away> So you don't see the completion until we do?
Jul 08 20:45:52 <SpeedEvil> wurp2|away: no - that'd be another press of the tab key.
Jul 08 20:45:54 <Tanuva> wurp2|away: im using irssi, but I take a look at what got completed *g*
Jul 08 20:46:01 <wurp2|away> nuclear_eclipse: I think mine is... and I didn't do anything to make it work that way.
Jul 08 20:46:08 <fengshaun> what would I need to know to develop applications for openmoko?
Jul 08 20:46:18 <fengshaun> in terms of languages!
Jul 08 20:46:19 <wurp2|away> fengshaun: python
Jul 08 20:46:23 <wurp2|away> fengshaun: Or C
Jul 08 20:46:27 <SpeedEvil> fengshaun: or dd
Jul 08 20:46:27 <Tanuva> or c++
Jul 08 20:46:27 <ecraven> does anyone have an ipkg of the newest tangogps?
Jul 08 20:46:30 <Qwell> or sh
Jul 08 20:46:30 <wurp2|away> fengshaun: Or lisp
Jul 08 20:46:31 <fengshaun> c++?
Jul 08 20:46:32 <fengshaun> oh yea
Jul 08 20:46:34 <Qwell> SpeedEvil: dd?
Jul 08 20:46:36 <wurp2|away> fengshaun: Or anything else you can get ported to it
Jul 08 20:46:41 <SpeedEvil> ecraven: http://www.mauve.plus.com/tangogps_0.9.0.3-r1_armv4t.ipk
Jul 08 20:46:48 <fengshaun> ok
Jul 08 20:46:53 <Qwell> or awk if you're real leet
Jul 08 20:46:58 <fengshaun> that's good, so would Qt4 apps work?
Jul 08 20:46:59 <wurp2|away> It's an itty bitty linux box
Jul 08 20:47:01 <wurp2|away> that makes phone calls
Jul 08 20:47:09 <wurp2|away> fengshaun: in ASU, they should
Jul 08 20:47:09 <fengshaun> or do I need to make changes to the source?
Jul 08 20:47:19 <fengshaun> what is ASU now?
Jul 08 20:47:22 <SpeedEvil> fengshaun: for some things, yes.
Jul 08 20:47:24 <wurp2|away> fengshaun: One of the releases
Jul 08 20:47:32 <fengshaun> ok
Jul 08 20:47:35 <fengshaun> good
Jul 08 20:47:41 <wurp2|away> like debian v. redhat, except they mostly all come from the same company
Jul 08 20:48:06 <wurp2|away> and are either nowhere near as stable or nowhere near as featureful, take your choice ;-)
Jul 08 20:48:09 <fengshaun> and is there any good documentation regarding the API, so I would be able to develop something on top of for example the maps or use GPS?
Jul 08 20:48:22 <fengshaun> sdk*
Jul 08 20:48:26 <mjr> what maps?
Jul 08 20:48:35 <fengshaun> maps application
Jul 08 20:48:48 <Virusmaster> oh man... can someone give me a hint, how to operate the underground image? :) i just dont get it...
Jul 08 20:48:53 <SpeedEvil> fengshaun: there isn't a maps application
Jul 08 20:49:06 <SpeedEvil> fengshaun: tangogps is it - well - there are others that may run on it
Jul 08 20:49:28 <fengshaun> ook, so can my apps interact with those?
Jul 08 20:49:34 <SpeedEvil> fengshaun: well - ...
Jul 08 20:49:35 <cl0s> be nice if someone built a little app using tiles from http://www.openstreetmap.org/ and some pymap thing the already got :)
Jul 08 20:49:50 <SpeedEvil> cl0s: tangogps pretty much is that
Jul 08 20:49:50 <cl0s> they*
Jul 08 20:49:56 <SpeedEvil> cl0s: a moving map app.
Jul 08 20:50:01 <wurp2|away> fengshaun: Documentation?  I heard of that, once.
Jul 08 20:50:09 <Tanuva> lol
Jul 08 20:50:11 <SpeedEvil> fengshaun: you can download the source code of tangogps and hack on it.
Jul 08 20:50:15 <wurp2|away> SpeedEvil: Navit will run on it
Jul 08 20:50:16 <cl0s> nice, just needs to be ported for better look/feel on the moko?
Jul 08 20:50:20 <wurp2|away> SpeedEvil: Pretty well
Jul 08 20:50:25 <OJW> cl0s: like http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Rana ?
Jul 08 20:50:26 <SpeedEvil> fengshaun: or just read the output of GPSd, and use your own program.
Jul 08 20:50:40 <ecraven> SpeedEvil: thanks! (9.1 came out a few days ago, too, i think)
Jul 08 20:50:42 <SpeedEvil> gfen: see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS
Jul 08 20:50:43 <cl0s> oo they got a pic of the openmoko right on thier site.. lol
Jul 08 20:50:47 <cl0s> their*
Jul 08 20:50:47 <fengshaun> ook, thanks guys!
Jul 08 20:50:53 <fengshaun> thanks for the link too :)
Jul 08 20:50:54 <SpeedEvil> fengshaun: that's got a list of programs
Jul 08 20:51:07 <fengshaun> thanks!
Jul 08 20:51:14 <mjr> fengshaun, basically you're expecting more order and less chaos than there currently is
Jul 08 20:51:45 <fengshaun> hahahaha yea
Jul 08 20:51:50 <wurp2|away> I actually prefer navit to tangogps, except that every time I upgrade I have to edit my navit.xml config and/or delete cached files that it no longer understands :-(
Jul 08 20:52:40 <mjr> navit can route, which is a plus... (yeah yeah, don't start with me about osm data being suboptimal for that)
Jul 08 20:52:41 <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/tangogps_0.9.2-r1_armv4t.ipk 
Jul 08 20:52:56 * SpeedEvil starts.
Jul 08 20:53:01 <SpeedEvil> (0.92)
Jul 08 20:53:08 <SpeedEvil> Odd that some people can't hit the site.
Jul 08 20:53:19 * Tanuva simply got it from the repository
Jul 08 20:54:53 <wurp2|away> mjr: And navit's data is much smaller for the same region than full top-to-bottom data files for tangogps
Jul 08 20:55:09 <wurp2|away> mjr: And for me, bottom on tangogps is level 15, not whatever the actual bottom is
Jul 08 20:55:20 <mjr> wurp, 's true. How's navit's speed nowadays?
Jul 08 20:55:35 <ecraven> does the ASU include a gtk stack?
Jul 08 20:55:47 <Dave> uhh, don't think so :x
Jul 08 20:55:49 <mjr> what do you mean "stack"
Jul 08 20:55:55 <mjr> it'll run gtk apps
Jul 08 20:55:58 <ecraven> do gtk apps work?
Jul 08 20:56:12 <ecraven> because thomas' python demo app doesn't seem to start
Jul 08 20:56:17 <Dave> ecraven, what other things have you discover?
Jul 08 20:56:26 <Dave> ecraven, did you explicitly install pygtk? :P
Jul 08 20:56:30 <wurp2|away> mjr: I dunno, it's been a couple of months since I used it.  I got tired of updating the xml & hunting down & deleting cached intermediate files
Jul 08 20:56:32 <ecraven> yes, of course
Jul 08 20:56:35 <Dave> oh
Jul 08 20:56:37 <Dave> then hrm
Jul 08 20:56:47 <ecraven> and it's python-pygtk :-P
Jul 08 20:56:51 <Dave> I know :D
Jul 08 20:56:52 <wurp2|away> mjr: It was fine for me all along, except when routing, then it was slow, but not quite unusably slow
Jul 08 20:56:57 <Dave> I found that out this morning ;)
Jul 08 20:57:04 * Dave throws a freerunner at ecraven
Jul 08 20:57:06 <Dave> bah!
Jul 08 20:57:31 <mjr> wurp, well, I'll grant that the version I tried (from an ipkg) did do a _lot_ of faulting for emulated instructions :]
Jul 08 20:57:35 <OJW> ecraven: people have been running rana and pyroute (pygtk-based apps) on openmoko 
Jul 08 20:57:50 <cl0s> throw me onee
Jul 08 20:58:16 <cl0s> oops
Jul 08 20:58:25 <wurp2|away> mjr: Oh, yeah, that happened to me if I tried menu options
Jul 08 20:58:27 * SpeedEvil passes Dave a ICBM, and a suitable reentry vehicle.
Jul 08 20:58:44 <wurp2|away> mjr: That was much better towards the end, though.  I think it had stopped altogether, or at least wasn't consistently repeatable
Jul 08 20:58:54 <cl0s> rana & pyroute dont give you directions though... just by the looks of it havent tried...
Jul 08 20:59:02 <cl0s> navit looks like the only one..
Jul 08 20:59:15 <wurp2|away> OJW: Were people actually *using* pyroute?  'cause it took many MINUTES to do anything on it when I tried it
Jul 08 20:59:18 <mjr> cl0s, well they do.
Jul 08 20:59:37 <mjr> though yeah pyroute was unusable
Jul 08 20:59:51 <mjr> rana has reportedly been made leaner with room still, but we'll see
Jul 08 20:59:53 <wurp2|away> OJW: I was really excited about pyroute until I tried it on the device
Jul 08 20:59:56 <cl0s> yea i would think pyroute routed..
Jul 08 20:59:57 <cl0s> lol
Jul 08 21:00:53 <ecraven> hm.. is anyone working on a different window-manager / user interface?
Jul 08 21:01:04 <mjr> different from what?
Jul 08 21:01:21 <kelvie_work> someone's porting KDE to the openmoko
Jul 08 21:01:24 <kelvie_work> if that counts
Jul 08 21:01:26 <cl0s> ahh well wont be long till we got 3d compiz cubes on our cellphones.. developers seem excited about this.. i'm going to die waiting for mine..
Jul 08 21:01:42 <ecraven> i want something simple and *fast*
Jul 08 21:01:48 <ecraven> no need for (too many) flashy graphics
Jul 08 21:01:53 <cl0s> gnome-embedded should port.. or matchbox would be nice..
Jul 08 21:02:01 <kelvie_work> there's already a termina; P
Jul 08 21:02:01 <ecraven> matchbox is running now
Jul 08 21:02:12 <kelvie_work> s/na;/nal
Jul 08 21:02:14 <SpeedEvil> ecraven: I coded a nav program in a one-line awk script that might have suited you then.
Jul 08 21:02:15 <kelvie_work>  /
Jul 08 21:02:20 <cl0s> i thought they said it was e..
Jul 08 21:02:43 <SpeedEvil> ecraven: you entered a lat lon, and it played three audio files - left/right/straight-on
Jul 08 21:02:44 <cl0s> enlightenment*
Jul 08 21:02:59 <cl0s> didnt seem right to me either though..
Jul 08 21:03:22 <SpeedEvil> ecraven: see also http://xkcd.com/407/
Jul 08 21:03:31 <mjr> cl0s, e/illume is the thing raster is working on in asu
Jul 08 21:04:08 <wurp2|away> cl0s: That's ASU
Jul 08 21:04:20 <wurp2|away> cl0s: 2007.2 is gtk on matchbox
Jul 08 21:04:56 <wurp2|away> cl0s: SHR will be gtk on matchbox to start, probably adding many other toolkits (e first) after
Jul 08 21:05:05 <cl0s> ok i googled it.. but what is exactly ASU?
Jul 08 21:05:05 <cl0s> lol
Jul 08 21:05:19 <SpeedEvil> apt: what is ASU?
Jul 08 21:05:20 <apt> Password:
Jul 08 21:05:20 <wurp2|away> April Software Update
Jul 08 21:05:29 <Tanuva> april... *g*
Jul 08 21:05:32 * SpeedEvil doesn't understand that bot.
Jul 08 21:05:35 <wurp2|away> exactly
Jul 08 21:05:40 <wurp2|away> apt: what is ASU
Jul 08 21:05:41 <apt> Password:
Jul 08 21:05:50 <wurp2|away> SpeedEvil: Someone corrupted him
Jul 08 21:05:58 <SpeedEvil> Oh Noes!
Jul 08 21:06:09 <wurp2|away> apt forget asu
Jul 08 21:06:10 <apt> i forgot asu, wurp2|away
Jul 08 21:06:14 <wurp2|away> apt what is asu
Jul 08 21:06:15 <apt> Password:
Jul 08 21:06:18 <wurp2|away> hrm
Jul 08 21:06:31 <wurp2|away> s/hrm/is apt working at all?/
Jul 08 21:06:33 <apt> wurp2|away meant: is apt working at all?
Jul 08 21:06:37 <wurp2|away> weird
Jul 08 21:06:39 <OJW> wurp2|away: haven't tried it on my freerunner yet (i.e. don't have one), but Rana should be faster to load than pyroute.  it is still slow to render map tiles though (but you can download tiles instead of rendering them on the phone)
Jul 08 21:06:46 <cl0s> oh ok so its just another version?
Jul 08 21:06:49 <cl0s> lol, thanks..
Jul 08 21:06:52 <wurp2|away> cl0s: yeah
Jul 08 21:07:13 <wurp2|away> It was intended to be a quick & dirty to let people run cool E stuff and use Qtopia apps to get stable calls at first
Jul 08 21:07:22 <wurp2|away> But it was much slower & dirtier than expected
Jul 08 21:07:54 <cl0s> o i c
Jul 08 21:08:02 <sitwon> I know this has probably been asked a billion times, but when will the phones actually ship out from the distributor?
Jul 08 21:08:25 <wurp2|away> sitwon: In the US?
Jul 08 21:08:30 <OJW> SpeedEvil: a routing program with just two audio outputs? "left" and "no, your other left"
Jul 08 21:08:34 <wurp2|away> I thought yesterday
Jul 08 21:08:37 <sitwon> wurp2|away: yes
Jul 08 21:08:50 <OJW> sitwon: depends on which distrubutor?
Jul 08 21:08:52 <swc|666> sitwon: what is your order #
Jul 08 21:09:13 * tessier_ is also wondering when his US phone will arrive
Jul 08 21:09:26 <tessier_> I ordered it minutes after it became available on the website with 3 day shipping
Jul 08 21:09:28 <cl0s> alright well thanks, got me really excited about finally getting mine.. i stayed with my sk for 2 and a half years so the contract ran out and i could keep my monthly plan but not have to re-do the contract for another 2 years just waiting for the openmoko.. only to find out i can only use att anyway
Jul 08 21:09:29 <cl0s> lol
Jul 08 21:09:45 * cjb wonders if anyone got tracking numbers today.
Jul 08 21:09:46 <cl0s> going home!
Jul 08 21:09:51 <tessier_> cjb: Not I
Jul 08 21:09:53 <swc|666> we got an email from OM on our 10 pack (U.S.) today...
Jul 08 21:10:10 <cjb> swc|666: which order #?
Jul 08 21:10:10 <swc|666> Yes, we will send you an email notice with tracking number upon the shipment been picked up.  Please allow couple days since we have so many orders to process the shipping.  Thanks.
Jul 08 21:10:14 <swc|666> 1513
Jul 08 21:10:17 <sitwon> my order number is 1669
Jul 08 21:10:19 <cjb> huh, ok
Jul 08 21:11:13 <nullpuppy> swc|666: how long ago was that?
Jul 08 21:11:21 <swc|666> today
Jul 08 21:11:32 <nullpuppy> well.. yeah, i meant like how recently?
Jul 08 21:11:35 <SpeedEvil> Is it legal in the US to sell something with only a 14 day DOA warranty?
Jul 08 21:11:40 <SpeedEvil> To a consumer?
Jul 08 21:11:41 <nullpuppy> 5 minutes ago? 3 hours ago?
Jul 08 21:11:49 <cjb> SpeedEvil: probably depends on state?
Jul 08 21:11:50 <swc|666> ummm.. .10am?
Jul 08 21:11:53 <nullpuppy> SpeedEvil: yeah, afaik
Jul 08 21:11:55 <nullpuppy> ok
Jul 08 21:11:56 <nullpuppy> hmm
Jul 08 21:11:58 <wurp2|away> SpeedEvil: I dont' think there are any federal laws about it
Jul 08 21:12:05 <sitwon> I ordered on July 3,  are the order numbers not sequential?
Jul 08 21:12:05 <wurp2|away> So, what cjb said
Jul 08 21:12:08 <swc|666> nullpuppy: did u get an email as well?
Jul 08 21:12:10 * OJW wonders who got order #1973
Jul 08 21:12:13 <Dave> Silly people
Jul 08 21:12:16 <nullpuppy> swc|666: not that i've seen
Jul 08 21:12:21 <nullpuppy> im 1539
Jul 08 21:12:35 <SpeedEvil> I note that order numbers are going up _much_ faster than the graph of apparant sales.
Jul 08 21:12:53 <wurp2|away> swc|666: But what time zone are you in? ;-)
Jul 08 21:12:54 <LionKMP> graph?
Jul 08 21:13:06 <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/Freerunner.gif
Jul 08 21:13:09 <swc|666> i think that if they are shipped out today, they will get the tracking #'s from UPS in the afternoon... but i don't know how fast they will send us the tracking info
Jul 08 21:13:14 <cjb> SpeedEvil: perhaps rather that freerunner orders started at ~1300 or something?
Jul 08 21:13:18 <cjb> at least, public ones
Jul 08 21:13:19 <swc|666> wurp|away: PST
Jul 08 21:13:30 <SpeedEvil> This is the graph of how many FRs the shop will offer if you enter 999 in the box.
Jul 08 21:13:30 <LionKMP> SpeedEvil: thx :)
Jul 08 21:13:37 <cjb> oh, heh
Jul 08 21:14:09 <nuclear_eclipse> I had order #1326, and I still haven't gotten a shipping notice or anything
Jul 08 21:14:11 <sitwon> where are they shipping from?
Jul 08 21:14:23 <nuclear_eclipse> Fremont, CA
Jul 08 21:14:27 <nullpuppy> swc|666: what sort of shipping did you pay for by the way?
Jul 08 21:14:38 <swc|666> the groupd ordered standard
Jul 08 21:14:44 <swc|666> group*
Jul 08 21:15:01 <wurp2|away> apt what is shr
Jul 08 21:15:02 <apt> it has been said that shr is Stable Hybrid Release, a combination of the FSO, some of the 2007.2 GTK software, and the ASU that provides all of the functionality of the 2007.2 software, but with the stability of the FSO.  See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Stable_Hybrid_Release
Jul 08 21:15:06 <nullpuppy> ok.
Jul 08 21:15:11 <wurp2|away> apt what is asu
Jul 08 21:15:12 <apt> Password:
Jul 08 21:15:18 <wurp2|away> That doesn't make any damn sense.
Jul 08 21:15:22 <nullpuppy> lol
Jul 08 21:15:28 <SpeedEvil> apt what is fdfhdkjfhdjfhdkj
Jul 08 21:15:29 <apt> SpeedEvil: I think you lost me on that one
Jul 08 21:16:52 <nullpuppy> apt what is fso
Jul 08 21:16:53 <apt> nullpuppy: I think you lost me on that one
Jul 08 21:17:01 <nullpuppy> hmm
Jul 08 21:17:12 <nuclear_eclipse> apparently ASU is sosecretive that he can't tell you without killing you afterwards :P
Jul 08 21:17:41 <wurp2|away> apt asu is the April Software Update, an release name for a OpenMoko distribution.  See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/ASU_Feature_Plan.
Jul 08 21:17:42 <apt> okay, wurp2|away
Jul 08 21:17:47 <wurp2|away> apt what is asu
Jul 08 21:17:48 <apt> Password:
Jul 08 21:17:51 <nuclear_eclipse> :)
Jul 08 21:17:53 * wurp2|away shakes head
Jul 08 21:18:09 <SpeedEvil> s/an/a/ 
Jul 08 21:18:29 <swc|666> the FR's are shipping with ASU, right?
Jul 08 21:18:40 <nullpuppy> no
Jul 08 21:18:50 <nullpuppy> at least, i don't believe so
Jul 08 21:19:06 <swc|666> hmmm
Jul 08 21:19:08 <SpeedEvil> GTKFTW!
Jul 08 21:19:15 <wurp2|away> apt fso is the freesmartphone.org software release.  It includes the backbone software for the phone hardware (and some other things) and a working dialer, and not much else.
Jul 08 21:19:16 <apt> okay, wurp2|away
Jul 08 21:19:19 <leinir> No, 2007.2, as has been reiterated over and over on the mailing list ;)
Jul 08 21:19:32 <wurp2|away> swc|666: No, GTK akak 2007.2
Jul 08 21:19:39 <swc|666> ah...
Jul 08 21:19:40 <wurp2|away> s/akak/aka/
Jul 08 21:19:40 <apt> wurp2|away meant: swc|666: No, GTK aka 2007.2
Jul 08 21:19:55 <nullpuppy> apt what is fso
Jul 08 21:19:57 <apt> i guess fso is the freesmartphone.org software release.  It includes the backbone software for the phone hardware (and some other things) and a working dialer, and not much else.
Jul 08 21:20:26 <ecraven> how do i change the ringtone?
Jul 08 21:20:34 <ecraven> and how do i listen to them? aplay doesn't seem to work
Jul 08 21:20:34 <wurp2|away> swc|666: They did originally plan to send ASU on them
Jul 08 21:20:49 <wurp2|away> ecraven: Find where the file is stored, overwrite it :-)
Jul 08 21:20:53 <swc|666> i c.. .that's where i got confused then
Jul 08 21:21:05 <wurp2|away> ecraven: mplayer should work
Jul 08 21:21:28 <ecraven> how does the ringtone get played? there's no mplayer on my fr
Jul 08 21:22:08 <cjb> perhaps aplay
Jul 08 21:22:14 <cjb> oh, someone said that
Jul 08 21:22:38 <ecraven> i tried, it didn't work
Jul 08 21:22:45 <sitwon> what about 'play'?
Jul 08 21:22:50 <ebbe> pulseaudio
Jul 08 21:22:59 <wurp2|away> The relief data on tangogps looks pretty slick
Jul 08 21:23:19 <wurp2|away> I'd been wondering why no one had hacked it to do e.g. google satellite imagery
Jul 08 21:23:33 <wurp2|away> ecraven: Did you try opkg install mplayer?
Jul 08 21:23:39 <ecraven> ebbe: pulseaudio file.wav ??
Jul 08 21:23:43 <wurp2|away> ecraven: I assume the mplayer in the repositories still works...
Jul 08 21:23:45 <ecraven> wurp2|away: no, i don't need mplayer ;)
Jul 08 21:23:56 <wurp2|away> ecraven: Sounds like you do ;-)
Jul 08 21:24:01 <ebbe> ecraven: Don't know.. but I think that is what they use..
Jul 08 21:24:04 <wurp2|away> I'm sure there's a better way
Jul 08 21:24:07 <wurp2|away> But I dunno what it is
Jul 08 21:24:24 <SpeedEvil> wurp2|away: code a beautiful mediaplayer?
Jul 08 21:24:26 <wurp2|away> You can /etc/init.d/pulseaudio stop, then aplay
Jul 08 21:24:40 <wurp2|away> SpeedEvil: excellent plan
Jul 08 21:25:03 <wurp2|away> I can probably do that on my gta01 while I'm on the potty
Jul 08 21:25:19 <mwester> Shouldn't need to stop pulseaudio...
Jul 08 21:25:32 <wurp2|away> I'll send you the opkg in about a year, unless I'm stricken with some severe chronic constipation
Jul 08 21:25:58 <wurp2|away> mwester: Ages ago, I know I had to kill pulseaudio to get the player I was messing with, which I thought was aplay, to work
Jul 08 21:26:25 <ecraven> can i set the time from gsm?
Jul 08 21:26:42 <mwester> ecraven:  not implemented afaik
Jul 08 21:26:47 <wurp2|away> ecraven: I'm sure you can, if you learn the right gsm command and write a script
Jul 08 21:26:53 <wurp2|away> ecraven: I have a script to set it from gps
Jul 08 21:27:09 <wurp2|away> It isn't smart enough to figure out your time zone from your location, though.
Jul 08 21:27:22 <wurp2|away> (setting time from gps is dead simple once you know the nmea format)
Jul 08 21:27:22 <ecraven> wurp2|away: gps doesn't work so far, no fix ;(
Jul 08 21:27:24 <mwester> wurp2|away:  pulseaudio locks up the ALSA drivers on resume, which keeps things like aplay from working.
Jul 08 21:27:42 <SpeedEvil> I have a deeply stupid script.
Jul 08 21:27:51 <wurp2|away> ecraven: Even w/o fix, if you have one satellite you should be able to set the time.
Jul 08 21:27:52 <mjr> you don't really need a fix for time
Jul 08 21:27:57 <mjr> echo
Jul 08 21:28:04 <wurp2|away> Unless FR truly doesn't send any valid sentences until it gets a fix
Jul 08 21:28:04 <SpeedEvil> It does date `ssh server date "+%whatever"`
Jul 08 21:28:08 <ecraven> i always have 0/0 satellites
Jul 08 21:28:20 <wurp2|away> ecraven: ouch
Jul 08 21:28:48 <ecraven> which i really don't understand, it *should* see some, huge meadow, no houses, few trees, clear view to the sky
Jul 08 21:28:57 <wurp2|away> I hate to say it, but it's sounding to me as if a bunch of people need to take advantage of that 14 day warranty for their FR gps
Jul 08 21:29:18 <MarcOChapeau> hmm, I'm having a weird issue with wifi. is WEP encryption meant to be available with the image that is shipped with the freerunner ?
Jul 08 21:29:27 <cjb> wurp2|away: I think getting a replacement antenna and fitting it is probably the best idea
Jul 08 21:29:30 <wurp2|away> SpeedEvil: I like to be able to set it while not tethered.
Jul 08 21:29:36 <ecraven> MarcOChapeau: i got wpa2 working, so wep should probably work too
Jul 08 21:29:39 <nuclear_eclipse> MarcOChapeau: I think someone else fixed it by doing `opkg update` or somesuch
Jul 08 21:29:45 <wurp2|away> cjb: But you should do it quick, before warranty is up
Jul 08 21:30:03 <SpeedEvil> wurp2|away: that's why you have GPRS! :)
Jul 08 21:30:19 <ecraven> where do i set my timezone?
Jul 08 21:30:20 <wurp2|away> nuclear_eclipse: But of course the results of opkg update dist-upgrade are highly dependent on when you do it
Jul 08 21:30:34 <MarcOChapeau> nuclear_eclipse: I'll try that. the wiki should probably be updated
Jul 08 21:30:35 <wurp2|away> SpeedEvil: Yeah, but I didn't have it then :-/
Jul 08 21:30:37 * nuclear_eclipse has no clue, never use opkg yet :P
Jul 08 21:30:48 <wurp2|away> And gps on the gta01 at least is much faster and less intrusive to get going than gps
Jul 08 21:30:48 <nuclear_eclipse> just saw it on the ML
Jul 08 21:30:50 <SpeedEvil> wurp2|away: you've got it working?
Jul 08 21:30:54 <wurp2|away> s/gps$/gprs/
Jul 08 21:30:57 <wurp2|away> SpeedEvil: yeah
Jul 08 21:31:12 <SpeedEvil> wurp2|away: got a tar.gz of the files you needed?
Jul 08 21:31:19 <wurp2|away> For a month or more now
Jul 08 21:31:22 <wurp2|away> SpeedEvil: For gprs?
Jul 08 21:31:23 <SpeedEvil> wurp2|away: or are you using ASU?
Jul 08 21:31:28 <wurp2|away> SpeedEvil: Nah, 2007.2
Jul 08 21:31:38 <wurp2|away> SpeedEvil: Well, FSO right now, but I don't have gprs on it
Jul 08 21:31:53 <SpeedEvil> wurp2|away: yes - oh well. I guess I need to poke it some more.
Jul 08 21:31:54 <mwester> ecraven:  ln -s ../usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Chicago /etc/localtime
Jul 08 21:31:57 <wurp2|away> I thought I'd spend a while with stable calls and > 12 hour battery life tos ee what it felt like
Jul 08 21:32:01 <SpeedEvil> wurp2|away: I had GPRS working, but it broke.
Jul 08 21:32:10 <wurp2|away> SpeedEvil: I have all the files.  I'll send you what I have.
Jul 08 21:32:14 <wurp2|away> Tonight
Jul 08 21:32:20 <SpeedEvil> Thanks!
Jul 08 21:32:29 <MarcOChapeau> nuclear_eclipse: it seems their's a kernel upgrade among the list of things to upgrade, this might do the trick...
Jul 08 21:32:42 * MarcOChapeau is having fun :-)
Jul 08 21:32:57 * nuclear_eclipse wishes his FR had arrived so he could be having fun too... 
Jul 08 21:33:40 <ecraven> can pulse play mp3 ringtones?
Jul 08 21:34:04 <wurp2|away> I had way more fun than I wanted the first time I figured out that 2007.2 was no longer supported (and hence broken)... (Not to start any rumors, I think 2007.2 is mostly fixed again now)
Jul 08 21:34:27 <wurp2|away> OK, I better be really away again for a while.  I *am* at work.
Jul 08 21:34:46 <nuclear_eclipse> wurp2|away: so what?  ;)
Jul 08 21:36:03 <SirBob1701> so north america shipping yet? lol
Jul 08 21:36:16 <nuclear_eclipse> SirBob1701: I think we're all trying to figure that out :P
Jul 08 21:36:30 <SirBob1701> nuclear_eclipse: lol worth a shot ;D
Jul 08 21:43:36 <MarcOChapeau> ecraven: afair, pulse doesn't decode stuff, it just routes audio
Jul 08 21:44:10 <ecraven> so i might set an mp3 file in /etc/pulse/session as the ringtone?
Jul 08 21:45:06 <MarcOChapeau> ecraven: not sure, I'm discovering quite a lot of stuff tonight :-p
Jul 08 21:45:13 <ecraven> so am i ;)
Jul 08 21:45:32 <MarcOChapeau> ecraven: I'm more aware of JACK stuff audio-wise
Jul 08 21:45:55 <ecraven> i don't particularly like any of the audio servers, but i see that they are necessary if multiple apps want to produce sound at the same time
Jul 08 21:47:14 <xzcvczx> how are you meant to update opkg when the signature files are not available?
Jul 08 21:47:34 <ecraven> is there an sms server for the FR? so that i can send sms from my computer over usb/wireless/bluetooth over the fr?
Jul 08 21:47:43 <MarcOChapeau> xzcvczx: saw that too...seems to work though. I'm guessing only part of then are unavailable
Jul 08 21:47:54 <MarcOChapeau> ecraven: ask your provier
Jul 08 21:48:09 <MarcOChapeau> s/provier/provider/
Jul 08 21:48:10 <apt> MarcOChapeau meant: ecraven: ask your provider
Jul 08 21:48:23 <ecraven> i think that's a software thing
Jul 08 21:48:34 <mjr> yeah MarcOChapeau obviously misunderstood
Jul 08 21:49:19 <MarcOChapeau> ecraven: you mean using the neo to send SMS from your computer ?
Jul 08 21:49:20 <mjr> no such thing ready I think, but very doable
Jul 08 21:49:34 <ecraven> MarcOChapeau: yes
Jul 08 21:49:41 <MarcOChapeau> oh :-)
Jul 08 21:49:48 <ecraven> i know, just wanted to know whether anyone has already done it
Jul 08 21:50:14 <xzcvczx> MarcOChapeau: well i am trying to update gsmd but it wont allow me to :S
Jul 08 21:52:07 <Fossi> xzcvczx: worked for me yesterday
Jul 08 21:52:40 <swc|666> so if i want to build a custom kernel for the FR with support for additional usb wlan cards, should i pull from kernel.org?
Jul 08 21:53:03 <ecraven> so, mp3s do *not* work in /etc/pulse/session, i only get vibration, no ringtone
Jul 08 21:54:38 <xzcvczx> Fossi: yeah it might seem on second look that its just mac thats failing on sharing internet
Jul 08 21:55:52 <mwester> swc|666:  No.  Pull from git.openmoko.org.
Jul 08 21:56:17 <swc|666> mwester: thanx
Jul 08 21:56:19 <swc|666> :)
Jul 08 21:56:50 <Fossi> usb wlan?
Jul 08 21:56:56 <Fossi> wardriving deluxe?
Jul 08 21:57:05 <Fossi> :D
Jul 08 21:57:18 <swc|666> ;)
Jul 08 21:57:48 <swc|666> i need monitor mode for the apps i'm developing
Jul 08 21:58:04 <mjr> yesyes, "apps"
Jul 08 21:58:41 <swc|666> lol
Jul 08 21:58:56 <nikolajsheller> Hello. I'm considering buying a Freerunner. I'm interested in what are the impressions so far?
Jul 08 21:58:56 <nikolajsheller> Also: if I buy a freerunner, should I get the debug-board? What kind of development is it recommended for?
Jul 08 21:59:14 <mjr> very low level stuff
Jul 08 21:59:28 <mjr> you probably don't need it
Jul 08 21:59:36 <ecraven> nikolajsheller: nice hardware, not enough (or good) software so far
Jul 08 22:00:00 <mjr> 'less you want a non-usb serial console or something, which might be useful for porting Hurd over ...
Jul 08 22:01:42 <nikolajsheller> mjr: thanks. Hurd might be over my level of ambition ;)
Jul 08 22:02:43 <nikolajsheller> ecraven: is it usable as a phone yet? or is it a fight to make call etc?
Jul 08 22:03:21 <mjr> well it's usable but not overly reliable, unless you install the FSO stack, which is very bare calls only
Jul 08 22:03:27 <mjr> unless +perhaps
Jul 08 22:03:27 <ecraven> i don't like the interface too much, but the few test calls i tried worked
Jul 08 22:03:38 <ecraven> and texts too
Jul 08 22:03:48 <ecraven> i'll try tomorrow to keep the sim card only in the fr
Jul 08 22:04:02 <ecraven> also, the microphone is in a bad position
Jul 08 22:04:06 <ecraven> (or i'm just holding it wrong)
Jul 08 22:04:19 <ecraven> (or i need to turn the volume up somehow)
Jul 08 22:04:22 <abraxa_> nikolajsheller: If you can wait, wait. If you can't, buy. Simple as that :)
Jul 08 22:04:32 <nikolajsheller> heh, reminds med of the nokia "side talking" phones
Jul 08 22:04:58 <rtm> Has anyone received a notice from the Openmoko store that their order has shipped?
Jul 08 22:05:09 <mjr> personally, as a nokia hater, I don't see the big deal about the "side talking"
Jul 08 22:05:40 <nikolajsheller> abraxa_: I'm trying to find out if I can wait ;)
Jul 08 22:06:10 <ecraven> nikolajsheller: now is your chance to write the killer app ;)
Jul 08 22:06:26 <ecraven> good night ;)
Jul 08 22:06:41 <nikolajsheller> ecraven: ah, what developer doesn't dream of that :)
Jul 08 22:09:06 <nikolajsheller> mjr: I think the sidetalking thing was an "in your face nokia" meme.
Jul 08 22:10:32 <mjr> nikolajsheller, probably
Jul 08 22:11:16 <nikolajsheller> anyways, thanks for the input. I really like the concept of the freerunner
Jul 08 22:14:06 <Arg0naut> rtm: US freerunners shipping(order numbers around 1500), i would wait atleast 4 hours before expecting to get tracking number from UPS 
Jul 08 22:15:00 <kelvie_work> aw I had one at around 1500
Jul 08 22:15:01 <rtm> Arg0naut: Thanks!   So since I'm 1367, I can assume it will go out today?
Jul 08 22:15:12 <kelvie_work> then I re-ordered and am 1700 something
Jul 08 22:16:47 <IXian-Probe> "Like what?" I spread my legs a little for him, knowing he couldn't
Jul 08 22:16:47 <IXian-Probe> really get a good look at my panties, but not minding too much if he
Jul 08 22:17:32 <IXian-Probe> ^_^
Jul 08 22:17:41 <IXian-Probe> ops ^_^
Jul 08 22:17:55 <nullpuppy> haha
Jul 08 22:18:26 <rtm> Was that from April's Software update?
Jul 08 22:19:58 <Haproli> Hmm, I'm having a problem getting wlan to work on the freerunner. Any common problems ? 
Jul 08 22:20:41 <Haproli> I folowed the wiki gta02 wlan, but It doesn't seem to be working
Jul 08 22:21:16 <Haproli> wpa_supplicant trows 'Failed to set encryption' at me
Jul 08 22:24:13 <Fossi> ~SHR
Jul 08 22:24:14 <apt> shr is probably Stable Hybrid Release, a combination of the FSO, some of the 2007.2 GTK software, and the ASU that provides all of the functionality of the 2007.2 software, but with the stability of the FSO.  See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Stable_Hybrid_Release
Jul 08 22:24:24 <Haproli> ioctl[PRISM2_IOCTL_HOSTAPD]: Operation not supported
Jul 08 22:25:23 <Fossi> i fought that as well and gave up half way to  just use ifconfig and iwconfig and mac filters ;D
Jul 08 22:28:28 <Haproli> Fossi: I heard a lot of people here where using wpa, there must be a way
Jul 08 22:28:43 <Fossi> sure
Jul 08 22:28:59 <Fossi> for one i'm not sure if you should use hostap
Jul 08 22:29:31 <swc|666> so should i be okay to checkout/build the Andy branch?
Jul 08 22:30:08 <Haproli> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_wlan
Jul 08 22:35:45 <Fossi> i like xrandr -o 3 much better than -o 1
Jul 08 22:36:04 <SpeedEvil> I like xrande -o i much better.
Jul 08 22:36:16 <SpeedEvil> It's much easir to read when the phone is lying down.
Jul 08 22:37:00 <Fossi> -o i?
Jul 08 22:37:59 <SpeedEvil> Imaginary axis. It makes the screen pop out of the case, and rotate 90 degrees into the Z plane.
Jul 08 22:38:16 <Fossi> ah. clever.
Jul 08 22:39:24 <mjr> me, I like -o fhtagn which rotates the screen through all the dimensions and makes the user CRAAaaZZEEEE
Jul 08 22:40:20 <wurp2|away> For FSO I just wrote http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FSO_UI_Tutorial, since I figure I'm not the only one who was at a loss after installing it.
Jul 08 22:42:41 <wurp2|away> Someone who knows what the hell the letters over the battery bar mean could put that in there.
Jul 08 22:47:11 <Fossi> wasn't there something to recalibrate the touchscreen somewhere in the repo?
Jul 08 22:47:18 <Fossi> ah
Jul 08 22:47:19 <Fossi> nm
Jul 08 22:47:31 <Fossi> i remember
Jul 08 22:48:22 <wurp2|away> Fossi: Is there?
Jul 08 22:50:26 <Fossi> i've seen 'pointercal' yesterday and though that might be something like it
Jul 08 22:50:35 <Fossi> but it seems that's only data
Jul 08 22:51:08 <wurp2|away> Fossi: I was under the impression that somehow it's never expected that the touchscreen will get off kilter
Jul 08 22:51:22 <wurp2|away> I know mine has never been inaccurate
Jul 08 22:51:33 <Fossi> well, try xrandr -o 3 ;)
Jul 08 22:51:40 <wurp2|away> When I thought it was, it was because a different part of my ..
Jul 08 22:51:43 <wurp2|away> Oh, yeah, that
Jul 08 22:51:46 <wurp2|away> I don't do that
Jul 08 22:52:01 <wurp2|away> .. finger was touching the screen than I thought was touching it
Jul 08 22:53:03 <wurp2|away> Fossi: In fact, I thought the only thing xrandr -o 3 did was change the mapping between touch screen & what you see.  Maybe I'm misremembering.
Jul 08 22:53:45 <Fossi> sometimes the touchscreen is totally off then
Jul 08 22:54:22 <Fossi> it also gets 'split' from time to time
Jul 08 22:54:30 <Fossi> but i guess that's more of a driver issue
Jul 08 22:54:34 <wurp2|away> I thought in xrandr -o 3 the touch was mirrored compared to the screen
Jul 08 22:55:07 <wurp2|away> How far you touch left of center, it moves the "mouse" based on that far to the right of center
Jul 08 22:55:10 <wurp2|away> & vice versa
Jul 08 22:55:57 <Fossi> no, it's weirder
Jul 08 22:56:01 <Fossi> anyway
Jul 08 22:56:06 <Fossi> i gotta go to bed
Jul 08 22:56:08 <kelvie_work> are there any good stylus accessories you can attach to the FR? like some type of mini-stylus on a strap?
Jul 08 22:56:09 <wurp2|away> OK
Jul 08 22:56:11 <wurp2|away> g'night
Jul 08 22:56:14 <Fossi> see you around
Jul 08 22:56:33 <wurp2|away> kelvie_work: got a hammer & nail, or some superglue?
Jul 08 22:56:50 <wurp2|away> kelvie_work: None that I've heard of
Jul 08 22:57:20 <wurp2|away> kelvie_work: Early on there was a car mount, but they scrapped it.  I wish they would bring it back :-(
Jul 08 22:57:38 <kelvie_work> wurp2|away: I was thinking something the size of a guitar pick
Jul 08 22:57:43 <kelvie_work> on a strap which you can then attach it :p
Jul 08 22:57:49 * doc|work would like the gta04 to look more like http://www.cellphone9.com/lg-kf750-secret-a-secret-no-more/
Jul 08 22:57:50 <Haproli> anybody here got wireless working on the freerunner with WPA ? 
Jul 08 23:00:19 <wurp2|away> Headed home, have a good night
Jul 08 23:01:05 <macdonalder> doc|work: I think the carbon fiber back is a bit much :P
Jul 08 23:02:38 <leinirAWAY> i'm more liking the idea of making the gta04 closer to Synaptics' concept phone, whatever its name was again
Jul 08 23:02:47 <leinirAWAY> and on that note, i sleep ;)
Jul 08 23:02:50 <doc|work> macdonalder: you can never have too much carbon fibre ( http://www.voodooenvy.com/ ) :)
Jul 08 23:03:03 <doc|work> er, that's not the site I was looking for :/ one sec
Jul 08 23:03:16 <macdonalder> haha
Jul 08 23:03:29 <doc|work> http://www.voodoopc.com/#/productsenvy
Jul 08 23:03:31 <doc|work> :o
Jul 08 23:03:56 <doc|work> I want one of those, only they're very expensive and don't come without windows
Jul 08 23:05:08 <Haproli> Do I need to modprobe the driver for the wlan to work ? 
Jul 08 23:05:25 <doc|work> macdonalder: cc cleared. Ordering tonight.
Jul 08 23:05:32 <macdonalder> ahh perfect
Jul 08 23:06:27 <doc|work> I got an email from pulster. They'll have 850MHz phones with warranties, they'd seen my mail about delivery prices. but at $477 a pop and not until after july. One pro for them is two year warranty vs 28 days DOA. Thoughts?
Jul 08 23:06:39 <doc|work> I'm thinking not
Jul 08 23:07:14 <doc|work> anyone know if a person outside the EU has to pay VAT when buying from the EU?
Jul 08 23:07:29 <macdonalder> that's an alternative to the om web store?
Jul 08 23:07:32 <Haproli> doc|work: I think so
Jul 08 23:07:36 <doc|work> arse
Jul 08 23:07:39 <doc|work> thanks Haproli 
Jul 08 23:07:42 <Haproli> np
Jul 08 23:07:43 <doc|work> macdonalder: yeah, from germany
Jul 08 23:08:33 <doc|work> his reasoning was dhl were cheaper (although they lost a computer on me once so I'm not too fond of them)
Jul 08 23:09:17 <macdonalder> meaning they'd ship dhl rather than ups?
Jul 08 23:10:58 <doc|work> yep
Jul 08 23:11:08 <doc|work> but dhl suck
Jul 08 23:13:20 <macdonalder> personally I've rarely dealt with them
Jul 08 23:13:30 <macdonalder> I'm fine with odering from the om store though
Jul 08 23:13:38 <macdonalder> *ordering even
Jul 08 23:14:03 <doc|work> ok, cool
Jul 08 23:14:25 <doc|work> much and all as I'd like a 2 year warranty, it's a *lot* more money and big delay :/
Jul 08 23:15:08 <ozzloy> who is "freeourphone" on youtube?
Jul 08 23:17:04 <macdonalder> doc|work: yeah, it is, and I'm not even sure how pertinent the phone will be in 2 years anyways
Jul 08 23:19:19 <doc|work> macdonalder: true
Jul 08 23:19:45 <doc|work> ozzloy: did they post vids on the freerunner?
Jul 08 23:19:59 <ozzloy> doc|work: yeah, 9 over the last 2 months
Jul 08 23:20:03 <SpeedEvil> macdonalder: 2 year - sure.
Jul 08 23:20:13 <SpeedEvil> macdonalder: a 2 week warranty however?
Jul 08 23:21:43 <ozzloy> they went to google.de
Jul 08 23:22:14 <doc|work> ozzloy: I think that could be steve's kids
Jul 08 23:22:24 <ozzloy> so they're deutsch
Jul 08 23:22:41 <ozzloy> heh, that's kinda neat
Jul 08 23:23:42 <Dave> Has anyone tried any external usb wifi dongle or usb camera yet?
Jul 08 23:24:13 <ozzloy> oh they have a website
Jul 08 23:24:40 <ozzloy> Dave: i have a usb camera, i'll let you know when i get the freerunner
Jul 08 23:24:48 <doc|work> ozzloy: don't quote me on that, I might be wrong :) got a link?
Jul 08 23:25:44 <Dave> Oh, alright.
Jul 08 23:25:52 <ozzloy> http://youtube.com/watch?v=JAl0T1emRtw for the vid.  freeyourphone.de is the website
Jul 08 23:25:53 <Dave> Has anyone tried usb wifi though?
Jul 08 23:26:23 <ozzloy> wait, usb wifi?  i thought it has wifi.  usb for stronger signal?
Jul 08 23:26:34 <Dave> I'm going to try it tonight anyhow, just wasn't sure what chipsets it supports natively, or if anyone had any success with driver cc yet.
Jul 08 23:26:39 <Dave> ozzloy, right
Jul 08 23:26:40 <doc|work> ozzloy: ok, those aren't his kids :)
Jul 08 23:26:51 <doc|work> ozzloy: BVBTechReviews are his kids
Jul 08 23:27:08 <ozzloy> yeah, i just saw a video by the
Jul 08 23:27:10 <ozzloy> them*
Jul 08 23:27:59 <ozzloy> does the stylus still have a laser pointer?
Jul 08 23:28:00 * Dave rolls his eyes
Jul 08 23:28:04 <Dave> yep :p
Jul 08 23:28:07 <Dave> and led light :P
Jul 08 23:28:14 <ozzloy> neato
Jul 08 23:28:20 <Dave> unless some distributers stole them out of the boxes for keeping >:D
Jul 08 23:28:27 <Arg0naut> ozzloy: in the video is that 2007.2?
Jul 08 23:28:49 <ozzloy> Arg0naut: idk
Jul 08 23:29:21 <macdonalder> ok nap time
Jul 08 23:31:38 <Dave> old macdonald had a nap Zzz Zzz Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Jul 08 23:31:51 <Dave> :p
Jul 08 23:31:52 <ozzloy> heh
Jul 08 23:32:10 * ozzloy imagines opening oo.o on a freerunner
Jul 08 23:32:24 <ozzloy> wow, that'd be _so_ broken
Jul 08 23:33:09 <SpeedEvil> oo.o?
Jul 08 23:33:09 <doc|work> ozzloy: well, I've heard of it running (alpha) on a nokia n800 which has the same spec processor
Jul 08 23:33:18 <doc|work> SpeedEvil: openoffice.org
Jul 08 23:33:30 <ozzloy> doc|work: i'm thinking more about the ui
Jul 08 23:33:37 <SpeedEvil> ah
Jul 08 23:33:38 <mjr> I did launch oo.o over X on my gta01 once
Jul 08 23:33:41 <mjr> it was... crowded
Jul 08 23:33:53 <ozzloy> heh
Jul 08 23:34:02 <SpeedEvil> I suspect that'd be slow.
Jul 08 23:34:16 <SpeedEvil> I've used firefox.
Jul 08 23:34:20 <SpeedEvil> It actually worked quite well.
Jul 08 23:34:43 <Haproli> :-( wlan not worky
Jul 08 23:34:58 <doc|work> ozzloy: heh, fair point :)
Jul 08 23:35:02 <SpeedEvil> (with the menux plugin to collapse the menubar, and with mousegestures to do back/forward on gestures
Jul 08 23:35:17 <doc|work> Haproli: can't help you, sorry :/
Jul 08 23:35:25 <ozzloy> SpeedEvil: have you seen vimperator?
Jul 08 23:35:31 <Dave> :D
Jul 08 23:35:34 <SpeedEvil> ozzloy: no
Jul 08 23:35:34 <Dave> oh hell yeah!
Jul 08 23:35:41 * Dave high-fives ozzloy
Jul 08 23:36:10 <doc|work>     *  muttator: Make Thunderbird behave like Vim
Jul 08 23:36:13 <doc|work> oh god
Jul 08 23:36:15 <ozzloy> heh, glad you like
Jul 08 23:36:15 <doc|work> is nothing sacred
Jul 08 23:36:19 <ozzloy> hahaha
Jul 08 23:36:22 <Haproli> what ? no way
Jul 08 23:36:32 <Dave> Hallowed?
Jul 08 23:36:32 * doc|work wanders off to find some crosses and garlic
Jul 08 23:36:43 * Dave throws icecream balls at doc
Jul 08 23:36:50 <ozzloy> eeew
Jul 08 23:37:11 <ozzloy> is there a dimmer on the backlight?
Jul 08 23:37:27 <doc|work> mmmicecream
Jul 08 23:37:41 <Dave> :D
Jul 08 23:37:44 <Dave> You can dim it yes
Jul 08 23:37:49 <Dave> I accidentally did it today
Jul 08 23:37:50 <ozzloy> sweetness
Jul 08 23:38:04 <ozzloy> oh dear, "accidentally" sounds ungood
Jul 08 23:38:10 <Dave> :D
Jul 08 23:38:12 <Dave> It was hot
Jul 08 23:38:20 <Dave> I was fucking up stuff left and right :P
Jul 08 23:38:43 <SpeedEvil> Yes.
Jul 08 23:38:51 <ozzloy> hot?  hot to the touch?  how hot?
Jul 08 23:39:17 <Dave> haha
Jul 08 23:39:19 <Dave> silly ozzloy
Jul 08 23:46:07 <thseiler> good morning, is there someone who understands a bit of evas ?
Jul 08 23:46:38 <doc|work> macdonalder: I have to say, it's kinda weird to know there's this much money sitting on my cc, waiting to be spent on goodies, even if 9/10ths of them aren't for me :(
Jul 08 23:47:14 <thseiler> i have a question about how it handles transparency...
Jul 08 23:48:13 <SpeedEvil> thseiler: I  vaguely remember that there might be a #e
Jul 08 23:48:18 <doc|work> thseiler: it? :/ there are currently three its :/
Jul 08 23:48:39 <doc|work> oh, sorry, missed your first question
Jul 08 23:49:20 <thseiler> SpeedEvil, people over at #e seem to be sleeping already...
Jul 08 23:49:39 <thseiler> SpeedEvil, so I though i would ask here...
Jul 08 23:49:51 <SirBob1701> anyone get shipping notice yet?  if there suppose to come from UPS i think we'll get the phone before fin ups mails us
Jul 08 23:51:56 <ebbe> I'm getting "Permission denied (publickey)." when getting a svn repository at projects.openmoko.org. Anyone know the problem?
Jul 08 23:52:30 <thseiler> well, goodnight everyone! 
Jul 08 23:52:33 <kelvie_work> you don't have ssh access to it
Jul 08 23:52:43 <swc|666> where can i get the arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi- cross compiler from?
Jul 08 23:53:06 <ebbe> kelvie_work: I've just created the project..
Jul 08 23:53:47 <ebbe> Does the server just need time them? To figure out permissions?
Jul 08 23:54:17 <swc|666> i see it here but is it zipped somewhere? http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/workdir/cross/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/
Jul 08 23:54:19 <ozzloy> Dave: oh.  i was actually serious.  i thought you dimmed it because it was hot tempurature-wise
Jul 08 23:55:03 <roh> ebbe did you upload a key?
Jul 08 23:55:10 <Dave> no, no :P
Jul 08 23:55:41 <ebbe> roh: Yes. It's been there for many months. Just checked it again. It's correct
Jul 08 23:56:31 <roh> ebbe well.. the only keys i see are these 2:
Jul 08 23:56:35 <roh> COMPROMISED: 2048 a4:ec:c4:8c:54:f9:48:97:3b:83:03:d9:c8:fa:66:95 ebbe@bohr
Jul 08 23:56:36 <roh> COMPROMISED: 2048 30:32:cc:3e:52:85:3b:ea:76:2d:b8:ed:ae:ad:41:4e ebbe@newton
Jul 08 23:56:40 <Dave> D:
Jul 08 23:56:46 <roh> which you can both put in a bin thus.
Jul 08 23:56:47 <Dave> rut roh
Jul 08 23:56:59 <ebbe> Oh..
Jul 08 23:57:10 <roh> Dave there are lots more.. thats why there are blacklists in place ;)
Jul 08 23:57:18 <ebbe> I'll make a new one
Jul 08 23:57:30 <Dave> roh, good :)
Jul 08 23:57:45 <Dave> ebbe, a wise idea :p
Jul 08 23:58:20 <ebbe> Hit by the Ubuntu gpg bug :/
Jul 08 23:59:36 <Dave> aww
Jul 09 00:01:48 <doc|work> when your order is shipped, you get a tracking np. right?
Jul 09 00:01:52 <doc|work> s/np/no
Jul 09 00:02:04 <nullpuppy> supposedly
Jul 09 00:02:28 <roh> afaik
Jul 09 00:04:16 <doc|work> thanks
Jul 09 00:04:19 <doc|work> home time
Jul 09 00:06:30 <ebbe> roh: How long will it take before I can log in?
Jul 09 00:10:08 <roh> ebbe i'm not totally sure.. either immediately or when one of the many crons ran.. i guess an hour or so max
Jul 09 00:10:29 <ebbe> roh: Okay. Great
Jul 09 00:14:41 <chillywilly> w00t, order no. 3000!!!
Jul 09 00:14:47 <chillywilly> yaaaaaay
Jul 09 00:15:41 <kelvie_work> holy crap it went up to 3000 already/
Jul 09 00:16:34 <ieatlint> keep wooting until you find out that seemingly no orders have shipped yet :P
Jul 09 00:16:57 <ebbe> 3000 is a nice number :)
Jul 09 00:17:10 <SpeedEvil> I've noted in the past that the ticket nuber seems _way- over what the shop is reporting.
Jul 09 00:17:13 <chillywilly> where will it most likely ship from?
Jul 09 00:17:46 <SpeedEvil> I suspect that each eamil you get related to your FR transaction increases the number by one.
Jul 09 00:17:50 <ieatlint> the US warehouse is in fremont, california
Jul 09 00:17:51 <kelvie_work> SpeedEvil: you still trust that number that gets returned from the webshop when you try to order 1000? :p
Jul 09 00:18:03 <ieatlint> (san fran bay area)
Jul 09 00:18:11 <SpeedEvil> kelvie_work: the graph is compelling.
Jul 09 00:18:21 <kelvie_work> graph?
Jul 09 00:19:01 <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/Freerunner.gif
Jul 09 00:19:05 <chillywilly> when will they start shipping things?
Jul 09 00:19:11 <roh> ticketnumbers in the shop are not without 'holes (cancelled or incomplete orders) and also did not start at 0
Jul 09 00:19:52 <chillywilly> I can wait...I've waited this long
Jul 09 00:19:54 <chillywilly> :)
Jul 09 00:20:12 <kelvie_work> ah
Jul 09 00:20:45 <roh> SpeedEvil hrhr.. ok.. thats funny.,. what a bogus datasource;)
Jul 09 00:21:06 <kelvie_work> still, it should be well over 1000 sold
Jul 09 00:21:07 <xzcvczx> anyone using qtopia on 01 know how to backspace?
Jul 09 00:21:08 <SpeedEvil> (though of course, I make absolutely no claims as to the accuracy of the silly graph I made.
Jul 09 00:21:11 <kelvie_work> if the order numbers do increase by one :P
Jul 09 00:21:34 <SpeedEvil> My cunning plan is really to get someone in the know to contradict e.
Jul 09 00:21:40 <ieatlint> plus group orders are 1 order number
Jul 09 00:21:48 <xzcvczx> lol dw found it
Jul 09 00:22:12 <Haproli> http://youtube.com/watch?v=k-qu_jy-HuA ANybody knows what image this one is running ? 
Jul 09 00:23:12 <Haproli> It looks different then what I am running
Jul 09 00:23:35 <roh> SpeedEvil where does that graph get its data from?
Jul 09 00:23:51 <chillywilly> which UI toolkit does openmoko use?
Jul 09 00:24:04 <kelvie_work> roh the number remaining according to the web store
Jul 09 00:24:07 <SpeedEvil> roh: Simply whenever I happen to click 'reload' on my shopping basket with several hundred freerunners in, and bother typing it in.
Jul 09 00:24:08 <kelvie_work> when you type a big number into the cart
Jul 09 00:24:23 <nullpuppy> chillywilly: shipping is gtk+, asu and the future will be qtopia
Jul 09 00:24:29 <nullpuppy> but support for gtk+ will still exist
Jul 09 00:24:37 <chillywilly> ok
Jul 09 00:24:49 <roh> SpeedEvil eheh
Jul 09 00:26:30 <mjr> nullpuppy, the "future" is quite uncertain
Jul 09 00:27:19 <roh> the only thing thats certain is that om does not force any toolkit to be 'the one' since we understand that its futile and always app and developer dependant whats best
Jul 09 00:27:35 <SpeedEvil> The future is HURD!
Jul 09 00:27:44 <mjr> SpeedEvil, YESSS
Jul 09 00:27:49 * SpeedEvil goes and eats lemon curd.
Jul 09 00:27:57 <mjr> lemon curry?
Jul 09 00:28:05 <chillywilly> heh
Jul 09 00:28:09 <SpeedEvil> No. 
Jul 09 00:28:13 <chillywilly> HURD is still alive and kicking
Jul 09 00:28:15 <mjr> my mistake
Jul 09 00:28:15 <chillywilly> ;P
Jul 09 00:28:25 <chillywilly> or is that comatose...
Jul 09 00:28:38 <SpeedEvil> mjr: /me tries to remember the recipie.
Jul 09 00:28:50 <weatherhead> sooo, anoyone here from the UK and has a freerunner?
Jul 09 00:29:32 <SpeedEvil> mjr: something like cornflour, and egg, and lemon juice, cooked while stirring to get something like a thick smooth lemon gravy.
Jul 09 00:29:50 <SpeedEvil> mk: And sugar. An alternative to jam.
Jul 09 00:30:16 <nullpuppy> haha, that'd be awesome
Jul 09 00:30:34 <nullpuppy> we should totally try and get hurd running on the fr
Jul 09 00:30:40 <SpeedEvil> gravy is probably the wrong term.
Jul 09 00:31:01 <mjr> or minix 3 \o/
Jul 09 00:32:51 <edistar> how many people are reporting issues with gps in the gta02 btw?
Jul 09 00:34:32 <SpeedEvil> I think at least 3-4 people have come in here and said they've had probles.
Jul 09 00:34:43 <SpeedEvil> At least a couple seem to have perseisted.
Jul 09 00:34:43 <edistar> ok, me too :/
Jul 09 00:34:51 <SpeedEvil> :/
Jul 09 00:35:14 <SpeedEvil> You get the malformed NMEA from ttySAC1, and no position even outdoors?
Jul 09 00:35:38 <edistar> SpeedEvil: I get no position outdoors after 20 minutes of standing on a hill with nothing but grass and sheep aroung me
Jul 09 00:35:40 <SpeedEvil> outdoors for >15 in
Jul 09 00:35:42 <edistar> *around
Jul 09 00:36:09 <edistar> SpeedEvil: yesterday I went for a walk, 2h through the woods and got no fix either, not even one satellite
Jul 09 00:36:11 <SpeedEvil> If there was lots of silk around, rubbing silk on wool can cause static.
Jul 09 00:36:27 <SpeedEvil> :/
Jul 09 00:36:34 <SpeedEvil> You get the output from the GPS - just no fix?
Jul 09 00:36:39 <edistar> SpeedEvil: yes
Jul 09 00:36:47 <edistar> SpeedEvil: I use the agpsui tool at the moment
Jul 09 00:36:57 <edistar> SpeedEvil: I also get the UTC time after 10 minutes
Jul 09 00:36:59 <SpeedEvil> IIRC ther eis a thread on community about it
Jul 09 00:37:04 <edistar> other people get that after 10 seconds..
Jul 09 00:37:09 <SpeedEvil> That's odd.
Jul 09 00:37:19 <SpeedEvil> It's picking up at least one satellite then.
Jul 09 00:37:42 <SpeedEvil> you've looked at it with cat?
Jul 09 00:37:50 <edistar> my signal strength also never gets stronger than 150dbm
Jul 09 00:37:59 <edistar> SpeedEvil: yes, to no avail
Jul 09 00:39:18 <Haproli> WHoehoew Finaly got wifi working
Jul 09 00:39:28 <Haproli> Only took a kernel flash
Jul 09 00:39:29 <edistar> SpeedEvil: I'll just have to wait and see
Jul 09 00:39:59 <SpeedEvil> edistar: posted to community?
Jul 09 00:40:07 <SpeedEvil> edistar: you EU?
Jul 09 00:40:30 <edistar> SpeedEvil: yes, EU.. .nl in fact
Jul 09 00:40:33 <edistar> at the moment
Jul 09 00:40:33 <SpeedEvil> I mean - do youhave to hurry to return within the 14 days if it's broken.
Jul 09 00:40:52 <SpeedEvil> Sorry, I think you've said that before.
Jul 09 00:40:53 <edistar> SpeedEvil: no, I have 2 years ;)
Jul 09 00:41:03 * SpeedEvil suffers from parity errors.
Jul 09 00:41:20 <mmontour> edistar: did you hold the antenna pointing toward the sky? Also, were you using any of the other RF subsystems (BT/WiFi/GSM) at the same time? (they shouldn't interfere with GPS, but it's another possibility to test)
Jul 09 00:41:38 <edistar> mmontour: I deactivated everything elsde
Jul 09 00:41:53 <edistar> mmontour: how do I have to hold it so it points towards the sky? I held it upright
Jul 09 00:42:34 <mmontour> The antenna is at the top of the device, so holding it upright is correct. 
Jul 09 00:42:38 <SpeedEvil> Hole-down?
Jul 09 00:42:38 <SpeedEvil> that's right.
Jul 09 00:43:00 <edistar> yes, exactly
Jul 09 00:44:22 <SpeedEvil> edistar: have you tried dissasembling it, and replugging hte antenna cable?
Jul 09 00:44:48 <edistar> SpeedEvil: no, haven't got a torx screwdriver here..
Jul 09 00:45:34 <SpeedEvil> It'd be interesting to report behaviour with the GPS antenna unplugged.
Jul 09 00:46:13 <Haproli> SpeedEvil: Where can you buy such antennas?
Jul 09 00:46:23 <Haproli> is it like a standard or smth
Jul 09 00:46:25 <SpeedEvil> Haproli: the internal antenna I mean.
Jul 09 00:46:31 <SpeedEvil> Yes
Jul 09 00:46:31 <SpeedEvil> hang on
Jul 09 00:46:32 <aevin> is the signalstrength listed anywhere when GPGSV reports 0 sats?
Jul 09 00:46:33 <Haproli> ow k
Jul 09 00:46:55 <SpeedEvil> aevin: no.
Jul 09 00:48:41 <aevin> okay. i better do some more gps testing tomorrow, to verify if it works or not. i haven't gotten any sats/fix yet, but I haven't really tested it in under clear sky, only close to window.
Jul 09 00:49:05 <edistar> aevin: should work too
Jul 09 00:49:14 <edistar> aevin: a chap in germany gets 9 sats inside!
Jul 09 00:49:39 <SpeedEvil> edistar: houses _VARY_.
Jul 09 00:49:39 <aevin> he's probably under surveillance of some sort :-P
Jul 09 00:49:52 <SpeedEvil> edistar: some windows are basically opaque to GPS.
Jul 09 00:50:20 <SpeedEvil> edistar: and I' reterofitting my house with what is essentially a continuous metal shield.
Jul 09 00:50:27 <SpeedEvil> (for a vapour barrier for insulation)
Jul 09 00:50:43 <edistar> SpeedEvil: I'm in a very old house.. I suppose the signals should float through everything here..
Jul 09 00:51:09 <edistar> SpeedEvil: what? do you still get gsm signals through? :P
Jul 09 00:51:19 <SpeedEvil> edistar: my walls are 50cm stone.
Jul 09 00:51:33 <SpeedEvil> edistar: yes - though 900MHz works better
Jul 09 00:51:35 <edistar> SpeedEvil: okey..
Jul 09 00:51:36 <SpeedEvil> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5303 - GPS ant
Jul 09 00:51:52 <SpeedEvil> though that's the wrong connector
Jul 09 00:52:20 <edistar> josch has been so kind to lend me his external gps antenna, it will arrive tomorrow.. I'll do some testing if the gps chip itself works at all
Jul 09 00:52:25 <Haproli> thanks
Jul 09 00:54:01 <kelvie_work> dealextreme's an awesome site
Jul 09 00:54:42 <Haproli> worldwide free shipping
Jul 09 00:54:57 <Haproli> that's cool
Jul 09 00:57:57 <xzcvczx> edistar: my guess that guy in germany lives in a cardboard box in the middle of a field :P
Jul 09 00:58:21 <edistar> xzcvczx: maybe, yes ;)
Jul 09 00:58:58 <ebbe> Nice one xzcvczx :)
Jul 09 00:59:09 <Haproli> Upgrading kernel-image-2.6.24 seems to hang at 90% with opkg upgrade
Jul 09 00:59:16 <Dave> eh oh
Jul 09 01:05:06 <roh> ebbe your key seems to be gotten updated now
Jul 09 01:05:31 <ebbe> roh: Excellent. It has :)
Jul 09 01:05:35 <roh>  .oO(interresting... seems to run every hour, and i cannot find the cron)
Jul 09 01:05:39 <roh> this planet is freaky
Jul 09 01:06:34 <roh> eh projects.. (the planet as in earth too)
Jul 09 01:07:30 <ebbe> roh: You sound like you need a break ;)
Jul 09 01:09:17 <roh> sometimes yes
Jul 09 01:10:01 <ebbe> But thanks for keeping an eye on me key
Jul 09 01:10:13 <ebbe> s/me/my/
Jul 09 01:10:13 <apt> ebbe meant: But thanks for keeping an eye on my key
Jul 09 01:10:25 <ebbe> (I'm not irish)..
Jul 09 01:10:37 <roh> ebbe the ssh was still open when i came by the window ;) and its good to know when the next one asks
Jul 09 01:15:26 <xzcvczx> good ol' debian's small mistake
Jul 09 01:17:48 <wastrel> debian
Jul 09 01:29:24 <nullpuppy> so.. phones are being shipped. dunno on actual eta, and i still haven't gotten a tracking number, but according to message on the -community ml issues have been resolved and stuff has been prepared for UPS pickup.
Jul 09 01:33:45 <swc|666> i'll believe it when i get a tracking #
Jul 09 01:33:52 <nullpuppy> hehe
Jul 09 01:33:53 <nullpuppy> yeah
Jul 09 01:34:26 <nullpuppy> i'm trying really hard to be patient and just let it happen.
Jul 09 01:43:14 <Dave> :D
Jul 09 01:57:17 <alphabeat> :D
Jul 09 02:03:46 <Haproli> sleep
Jul 09 02:08:16 <rivalarrival> I'm waiting for my tracking number too.
Jul 09 02:08:54 <SirBob1701> wish i paid for faster shipping lol
Jul 09 02:09:46 <rivalarrival> I figured with the initial launch, it wouldn't really matter.  
Jul 09 02:10:15 <SirBob1701> rivalarrival: why you say that?
Jul 09 02:10:25 <CVirus> HAI
Jul 09 02:10:31 <CVirus> CAN I HAS FREERUNNR
Jul 09 02:10:39 <CVirus> :-p
Jul 09 02:11:10 <_jr> all base are belong to us
Jul 09 02:11:12 <rivalarrival> I just figured that when I read the "you can buy it on the 4th" at 0200 local time on the 4th, and the european models were already sold out...
Jul 09 02:11:27 <SirBob1701> oo
Jul 09 02:11:28 <rivalarrival> The shipping department would be pretty backlogged
Jul 09 02:11:55 <CVirus> the EU models were sold out or they weren't there in the first place ?
Jul 09 02:12:15 <rivalarrival> the order form claimed they were sold out...
Jul 09 02:12:28 <CVirus> What did steve say about it ?
Jul 09 02:13:00 <rivalarrival> Hey, it was 2AM when I read it - I wasn't thinking too clearly anyway...
Jul 09 02:22:36 <linuxxr> calm down calm down
Jul 09 02:27:02 <linuxxr> no track #yet
Jul 09 02:28:30 <Arg0naut> linuxxr: what order number do you have?
Jul 09 02:30:23 <Dave> :)
Jul 09 02:58:07 <rtm> Has anyone heard if *anyone* received confirmation today that their order from the Openmoko online store was shipped?
Jul 09 02:59:17 <swc|666> nope :/
Jul 09 02:59:42 <rtm> Rats!
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jul 09 02:59:56 2008