**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 09 02:59:56 2008 Jul 09 03:05:06 Gerbils! Jul 09 03:06:21 Possums? Jul 09 03:06:32 Still waiting on mine. Jul 09 03:07:42 I've got the initial order confirmation, but nothing indicating if/when it was shipped. Jul 09 03:07:59 new phone new phone new phone. Jul 09 03:08:07 is this thing going to replace my palm pda? Jul 09 03:08:45 steve@openmoko said on the community list that "The shipping folks started to put together packages for UPS to pick up.", but he doesn't actually say any were shipped. Jul 09 03:08:48 This thing is going to replace your palm, your pocket pc, your laptop PC, your desktop PC, and your console gaming platforms. Jul 09 03:09:32 Ok, well, maybe not all of those, but at least the first two, and in my case, the third as well. Jul 09 03:11:05 do i have to get a pocket pc first? Jul 09 03:12:11 wastrel: Only if you want it replaced. Jul 09 03:12:28 since no one has gotten tracking numbers or ship confirmations, i don't think anything actually shipped today :/ Jul 09 03:12:30 It's kinda hard to replace something you don't actually have. Jul 09 03:13:14 Come on, openmoko, gimmegimmegimmegimmegimme! Jul 09 03:13:24 2039 Jul 09 03:13:48 that would be correct Jul 09 03:14:31 rtm: his subject was "Phones are headed out of fremont CA." i'm hoping, ups is just slow giving out the tracking numbers Jul 09 03:15:05 hmm, good point :/ Jul 09 03:15:17 well hopefully some shipped then. Jul 09 03:16:00 any word on the vid hardware in the freerunner? Jul 09 03:16:08 glamo Jul 09 03:16:08 any hope of a opengl ES implementation? Jul 09 03:16:18 if you want to implement it Jul 09 03:16:22 hah Jul 09 03:16:26 not being done officially Jul 09 03:16:31 alas, I'm a games dev Jul 09 03:16:37 hence anything I do is owned by The Company Jul 09 03:16:42 :) Jul 09 03:16:45 aww Jul 09 03:16:47 that sucks Jul 09 03:16:51 what company? Jul 09 03:17:06 I work for a studio owned by Activision Jul 09 03:17:35 ah, cool Jul 09 03:18:00 ewon: oh, I know one of your coworkers :) Jul 09 03:18:16 Activision owns many studios :) Jul 09 03:18:37 * xzcvczx would laugh if ewon was the coworker you knew lol Jul 09 03:18:50 macdonalder: You've just purchased this: 1x Neo FreeRunner - GSM 850-10 Pack, 1x DBoard :D Jul 09 03:18:52 i'm slowly working towards getting into the game dev world. still undecided what i really want to end up doing though Jul 09 03:20:03 :doc|home: congrats Jul 09 03:21:57 :) Jul 09 03:22:15 my credit card is now $4000 lighter :( Jul 09 03:22:25 it was nice having that there for all of about 12 hours :( Jul 09 03:22:55 :( Jul 09 03:23:07 * nullpuppy needs to get his CC's back down to that point Jul 09 03:24:02 nullpuppy: heh, I put the money on first :) Jul 09 03:25:25 :) Jul 09 03:28:55 meh Jul 09 03:32:22 meh? Jul 09 03:34:24 i'm giving ups 30 more min before going to bed Jul 09 03:35:48 Arg0naut - I don't think we'll hear anything today. Jul 09 03:36:30 I don't think it takes hours for UPS to fire off a tracking number. Jul 09 03:38:12 hajha Jul 09 03:38:13 if there anything like purolator, and fedex, it wouldn't surprise me Jul 09 03:38:37 Arg0naut: they're far worse than those :( Jul 09 03:38:43 so im thinking 4 days from tomorrow Jul 09 03:39:01 to arkansas Jul 09 03:40:07 doc|home: yup, got the email, thanks :D Jul 09 03:40:27 yeah, i'm expecting monday now :/ was hoping thursday or friday Jul 09 03:40:36 macdonalder: heh, I sent that after I mentioned it here :) Jul 09 03:40:46 either way Jul 09 03:42:13 so when we get this device do we need to reflash for some good reason or will it operate ok Jul 09 03:42:43 linuxxr: one person here mentioned he couldn't get wpa support until after he flashed it Jul 09 03:42:43 or following the getting started with freerunner Jul 09 03:42:53 linuxxr: in any case, newer software = better Jul 09 03:43:15 i *think* calling and sms should work out of the box, but not much else Jul 09 03:43:17 so it has 2007.2 on it or what? Jul 09 03:43:20 yeah Jul 09 03:43:44 ok, so I figure from the name that the "dialer" allows you to make calls. Can you recieve calls? Jul 09 03:43:51 so the asu is april this year? Jul 09 03:43:56 * nullpuppy is probably gonna put FSO on his and work on try and get sms working on it Jul 09 03:44:11 linuxxr: afaik, yeah Jul 09 03:44:25 sitwon: i believe so. that'd be a pretty crappy phone if it couldn't do that ;) Jul 09 03:44:28 * doc|home is going to gush over his and dribble a little :o Jul 09 03:44:35 lol Jul 09 03:44:35 its better than 2007.2? Jul 09 03:44:56 FSO has stable calling, thats about it, and slightly better battery life Jul 09 03:45:07 nullpuppy: I agree, but I believe it's still considered a work in progress Jul 09 03:45:14 sitwon: correct Jul 09 03:45:56 milestone 1 has been reached from what i've heard, and that was just getting reliable calling to work. dunno what works beyond that Jul 09 03:46:13 hmm, i need some dinner Jul 09 03:46:16 * nullpuppy ponders Jul 09 03:46:18 they're all works in progress :/ Jul 09 03:46:44 yeah, i'm ok with that though. my only complaint is the battery life really Jul 09 03:47:11 same Jul 09 03:47:21 * nullpuppy would like at least 48hrs standby, prefebly 6+ days Jul 09 03:47:26 qtopia looks pretty Jul 09 03:47:30 nullpuppy: aye Jul 09 03:47:47 actually, add in a webkit browser and I'm happy Jul 09 03:47:55 i didn't like the qtopia build i ran in qemu :) it looked ugly and buggy, granted, that was a daily build.... Jul 09 03:47:57 oh, and pdf viewer and mail client :P Jul 09 03:47:58 :) Jul 09 03:47:59 is it opera? Jul 09 03:48:00 doc|home: there's a webkit browser, isn't there? Jul 09 03:48:03 hehe Jul 09 03:48:13 peh: maybe on one of them, but who knows which one :/ Jul 09 03:48:19 hm Jul 09 03:48:19 pdf viewer would be awesome Jul 09 03:48:25 lynx Jul 09 03:48:26 * doc|home hasn't wanted to play with anything, saving it for when the hardware arrives Jul 09 03:48:29 linuxxr: pffft Jul 09 03:48:34 lol' Jul 09 03:48:36 that and a google calendar sync tool ;) Jul 09 03:48:37 300 dpi porn ftw Jul 09 03:48:39 I've ordered one too! :D Jul 09 03:48:41 :) Jul 09 03:48:46 haha Jul 09 03:48:47 have to wait until August though :'( Jul 09 03:48:51 links Jul 09 03:48:57 peh: ouch, eu? Jul 09 03:49:01 yup Jul 09 03:49:04 :/ Jul 09 03:49:06 should have pre-ordered :P Jul 09 03:49:17 we did Jul 09 03:49:29 I have one more stupid question I didn't ask you guys before... would any of you say that the FR is "usable" it it's present state? I saw some blog postings that said otherwise and it made me wonder. Jul 09 03:49:48 hrm, i think i'm gonna make some burgers, gotta run to the store first though... bbiaf Jul 09 03:49:55 BitWraith: it depends on what you mean by usable Jul 09 03:49:59 BitWraith: depends on your definition of usable really :/ Jul 09 03:50:02 if we use it does that make it usable? Jul 09 03:50:22 BitWraith: if you go on long business trips, probably not. If you can get home and can charge every night, then it should be fine on some builds Jul 09 03:50:27 quit whinin Jul 09 03:50:29 there was talk that some systems, particularly power management ones, aren't ready for prime time Jul 09 03:50:35 if 6-12hrs battery life and the ability to make phone calls and sms semi-reliably is usable, then yes ;) Jul 09 03:50:39 who's whinin Jul 09 03:50:41 ? Jul 09 03:50:52 BitWraith: I hope it is. I'm not getting rid of my Nokia cellphone just yet, though. If the battery life is as poor as they say it is, I'll use the Freerunner as a toy/pocket computer only, and not as a phone. At least not until the new powersaving software arrives. Jul 09 03:51:24 still couldn't resist ordering one. *drool* Jul 09 03:51:25 What's poppin' peeps? Jul 09 03:51:31 i'm probably gonna switch back and forth between the fr and my razr Jul 09 03:51:38 anyways, food. bbiaf Jul 09 03:51:54 the thing is, if I can't rely on it as my phone I might as well just stick with m zaurus... the ony things it has over the Z then are 3D accel and motion sensing. Jul 09 03:52:06 GPS! Jul 09 03:52:12 .. which doesn't work very well :) Jul 09 03:52:19 yet Jul 09 03:52:29 cjb: it doesn't? I saw some demos of tangoGPS and it looked pretty cool Jul 09 03:52:36 so long as I can get Kismet running on it... Jul 09 03:52:46 peh: people who've received their FRs seem to be saying that it's taking 30 minutes to get a GPS lock, if it happens at all Jul 09 03:52:52 meh :/ Jul 09 03:53:02 ebay me gta02 when the gta03 comes Jul 09 03:53:10 cjb is that a hardware issue or software issue? Jul 09 03:53:18 sitwon: sounds like an antenna problem Jul 09 03:53:21 something must be really wrong if it's really taking 30 minutes Jul 09 03:53:35 yeah, when you plug in an external antenna it works fine Jul 09 03:53:42 It is sobering that nearly a year after the neo1973 went on sale, there is still not a software stack available that makes that unit or the Freerunning into a usable phone. Jul 09 03:53:56 is that leaving it in 1 place or walking around Jul 09 03:54:07 still, the zaurus isn't really "reliable" anymore either... all the developers went to work for the angstrom project... and angstrom sucks. I wish I still had a copy of openzaurus. :-/ Jul 09 03:54:21 https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1542 Jul 09 03:54:36 linuxxr: don't think it makes a difference Jul 09 03:56:59 has anybody tried 8GB microSDHC cards yet? Jul 09 03:57:25 peh: I have one in my neo1973, and it works perfectly. Jul 09 03:57:31 wewt Jul 09 04:00:23 peh: My 8GB microSDHC is a Sandisk." Jul 09 04:00:35 * peh nods Jul 09 04:00:41 "Accept no substitute" :P Jul 09 04:00:46 anyway, they're dirt cheap now Jul 09 04:01:09 what's FSO and asu? Jul 09 04:01:10 $45 Jul 09 04:01:29 too many acronyms that I have no idea wtf they mean ;P Jul 09 04:01:49 apparently there is a usable build of Android for some HTC phones Jul 09 04:02:05 pity you can't do feck all with Android besides those silly Java apps right now Jul 09 04:04:42 ewon: howdy Jul 09 04:04:53 ewon: doc@ here Jul 09 04:05:08 chillywilly: ASU = April Software Update. It is a stack with Qtopia applications, which does not follow the 2008 Software Architecture. Jul 09 04:05:11 o/ Jul 09 04:05:15 is there an issues list somewhere that states what works and what doesn't work so well with the phone? Jul 09 04:05:15 hehe Jul 09 04:05:20 ewon: still in Limerick? Jul 09 04:05:32 doc|home: nein, working in LA this weather Jul 09 04:05:36 ewon: btw, it was the "feck all" that gave it away Jul 09 04:05:40 :) Jul 09 04:05:45 ewon: nice, doing? Jul 09 04:06:04 doc|home: games development, specifically network stack stuff Jul 09 04:06:11 what you up to these days? Jul 09 04:06:33 chillywilly: FSO = FreeSmartphone.Org stack. It's a bare-bones stack which does follow the 2008 Software Architecture. Jul 09 04:06:45 nice, I'm in Vancouver in Canada, doing web dev for a music download/sales (and other stuff under NDA) site Jul 09 04:07:07 rtm: thanks Jul 09 04:10:57 doc|home: good stuff Jul 09 04:12:57 doc|home: www.insound.com Jul 09 04:12:58 :D Jul 09 04:14:23 I just remembered another feature of theirs I like; a mailing list where they send you the 'mp3 of the week' for a featured artist Jul 09 04:24:12 macdonalder: thanks for the reminder, was thinking of the site today but my brain was fried :) Jul 09 04:25:23 no problem... I got an promo email from them today and remembered; they've got re-release of Siamese Dream on vinyl I'm thinking of getting :) Jul 09 04:25:58 * tessier waits for tracking info on his phone Jul 09 04:26:14 I paid extra for 3 day shipping. I'll be annoyed if this turns into an OLPC XO like logistical fiasco. :) Jul 09 04:26:20 macdonalder: hehe Jul 09 04:26:40 tessier: might take a little while before they actually getting around to packaging though Jul 09 04:26:46 lots of orders :) Jul 09 04:27:32 cardboard boxes out the yingyang Jul 09 04:28:45 dont forget the extra goodies for us test monkies Jul 09 04:29:21 so is fso in line with the new framework? Jul 09 04:42:25 for the curious: http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/open-moko-software.ars Jul 09 04:42:35 * macdonalder waves to seg|ars Jul 09 04:42:46 hey Jul 09 04:42:55 I was wondering how long it would take for somebody in here to notice. :-) Jul 09 04:43:03 that was pretty fast Jul 09 04:43:07 I read ars pretty regularly Jul 09 04:43:11 that's cool Jul 09 04:43:40 yup, I enjoy it, your work included ;) Jul 09 04:43:47 thanks! Jul 09 04:51:17 seg|ars, yes, good work Jul 09 04:54:51 daMaestro: thanks! Jul 09 04:55:34 It was a really interesting article to write. My original plan was to make it only about 700 words, but I got really wrapped up in it Jul 09 04:57:06 * nullpuppy reads Jul 09 04:57:41 * alphabea1 reads Jul 09 05:00:49 damn that's long. how many words seg|ars? Jul 09 05:01:01 it ended up being about 2500 I think Jul 09 05:01:13 * CM makes sure it's in the wiki Jul 09 05:02:45 seg|ars: it's good though, and immediately hits on what I too have found to be both the most confusing and liberating; the abudance of choice Jul 09 05:04:15 yeah, that's definitely a central characteristic of the platform Jul 09 05:04:25 it makes it feel a lot like desktop linux in many ways Jul 09 05:04:30 seg|ars: Heh, ars is the first entry for almost every month: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Press_Coverage Jul 09 05:04:43 haha that's awesome Jul 09 05:04:58 CM: was just checking the same thing ;) Jul 09 05:05:43 which makes complete sense for an open source project, it's simply that there aren't that many commercially available products that offer the same amount of flexibility (the neuros comes to mind) and yes, exactly, just like desktop linux it feels as though it will be a constant work in progress (for better or worse) ;) Jul 09 05:07:24 I think that the diversity will be a strength as long as the FSO d-bus stuff delivers on its potential Jul 09 05:07:48 i'm kinda diasappointed in not seeing more people using debian armel on the FR Jul 09 05:08:50 seg|ars: Maybe you could talk to mickyl about FSO some time? :) Jul 09 05:08:51 seg|ars: awesome write up. Jul 09 05:09:15 nullpuppy: thanks! Jul 09 05:09:20 CM: that's probably a good idea Jul 09 05:09:42 I've been seeing a lot of very strong interest in OpenMoko from the readers Jul 09 05:09:50 Nice Jul 09 05:09:50 so I think my editors will be happy to have more material about it Jul 09 05:10:12 :) Jul 09 05:10:29 * CM wonders who will write a blogpost on planet.openmoko.org first about the press coverage Jul 09 05:10:48 yeah, theres a TON of potential in this project, and from the activity here and in the mailing lists, i'm very optimistic. Jul 09 05:11:14 awesome seeing the internel devs communicate via the public lists Jul 09 05:11:38 nullpuppy: Yeah, it's been fun reading the devel list lately :) Jul 09 05:11:41 yeah, it seems like the development process has been very transparent Jul 09 05:12:08 yeah Jul 09 05:14:02 i think we really need to get some organization behind updating the wiki. there's a lot of stuff there that is in desperate need of updating, either because it's out of date, or just incomplete Jul 09 05:14:13 definitely Jul 09 05:14:36 isn't that Wanda's job? Jul 09 05:14:40 when I first started messing with the qemu stuff, I was looking at the instructions for setting it up on ubuntu, and it's really, really outdated Jul 09 05:15:22 yeah, and the instructions for qemu itself are a little lacking, especially for playing with the freerunner stuff Jul 09 05:16:05 it would be nice if there was a way to have a plug-and-play vmware player image or something like that Jul 09 05:16:13 I don't know how feasible that is technically though Jul 09 05:16:20 when I purchase the phone, does it come with the developer kit Jul 09 05:16:30 so I can build apps for it and flash it when I brick it? Jul 09 05:16:48 nope Jul 09 05:16:54 sontek: Good thing is that you can't brick it Jul 09 05:16:57 and unless you eff up the NOR flash, you're fine Jul 09 05:17:21 and since you can't change the NOR without the dboard, you're peachy Jul 09 05:17:47 So how do I test out the ASU stack Jul 09 05:17:54 do I need the board? Jul 09 05:17:55 * CM bricked his GTA01 once and it was a pain to fix Jul 09 05:18:03 sontek: Just usb :) Jul 09 05:18:12 seg|ars: given the toolchain is based around linux, that shouldn't be difficult really. just a matter of figuring out what to base it on Jul 09 05:18:16 and a way to keep it up to date Jul 09 05:18:19 And a small downloadable tool to flash it. Look in the wiki Jul 09 05:18:24 :) Jul 09 05:18:32 i'm going to order one right now then :P Jul 09 05:18:37 haha Jul 09 05:18:44 It's really easy Jul 09 05:18:50 you flash via usb using the NAND flash, the NOR flash is there as a read only fail safe Jul 09 05:18:51 sontek: so did my article contribute to that decision? ;-) Jul 09 05:19:47 seg|ars: It helped =) Jul 09 05:19:55 nice Jul 09 05:19:58 seg|ars: I've been on the fence about it Jul 09 05:20:10 you and like half the other people in my twitter network Jul 09 05:20:22 seg|ars: the one thing I've been worried about is battery life, and since you don't have a phone you didn't touch on that yet Jul 09 05:20:28 yeah Jul 09 05:20:34 I've been wondering about that too Jul 09 05:20:41 seg|ars: My friend Tim has the first revision one and its battery life is horrid Jul 09 05:20:56 Yes, it's bad, but it has gotten better Jul 09 05:21:18 Seems like suspend/resume is finally working properly, but i haven't tried the latest kernel myself yet Jul 09 05:21:55 I figure that if you adjust the screen backlighting and don't use the gps, it will probably be fine Jul 09 05:22:04 but I'm looking forward to doing tests Jul 09 05:22:11 so whats with Nokia, their whole maemo stack is GTK but then they buy symbian and and Qtopia? Jul 09 05:22:23 they are covering all their bases Jul 09 05:22:53 The GPS is a feature i'm looking forward to, My gf is a environmental and geography major and wants to do some GIS work Jul 09 05:23:10 so I was thinking with the openmoko we could keep track of points we hit and map them when we get back Jul 09 05:23:17 that's cool Jul 09 05:23:23 cross platform. hey want people to be able to write once and easily run on symbian/maemo/desktop Jul 09 05:23:25 I wonder if any of that open streetmap stuff has been ported over yet Jul 09 05:23:36 seg|ars: Btw, there's been some discussions here and on the ml about a community openmoko distribution using FSO and gtk programs from the 2007.2 release Jul 09 05:23:50 that would be really cool Jul 09 05:24:06 I happen to really like the 2007.2 stack Jul 09 05:24:15 I generally prefer GTK+ for my own development stuff Jul 09 05:24:15 Because the gsm stuff in fso is working best so far, but a lot of people like that gtk stack Jul 09 05:24:21 * CM nods Jul 09 05:24:23 yeah Jul 09 05:24:39 wurp2|away is one of them iirc Jul 09 05:24:43 My main reason for buying the moko will be to develop GTK apps and improve that stack Jul 09 05:25:16 seg|ars: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Stable_Hybrid_Release Jul 09 05:25:16 I really like the idea of being able to make pygtk apps that will work on both the openmoko and nokia tablets Jul 09 05:25:30 i'm going to port mono to it :) Jul 09 05:25:34 nice Jul 09 05:25:45 did you see the iphone mono port? Jul 09 05:25:47 some work was done on the earlier version Jul 09 05:25:56 yeah, kangaroo is a crazy mac guy :P Jul 09 05:26:01 sontek: I think henryk in #oe has mono running on it last year Jul 09 05:26:13 CM: yeah, he was on the ml talking about it Jul 09 05:26:14 It was a bit slow to start up apps, but it works Jul 09 05:26:16 but I haven't seen much since Jul 09 05:26:21 Me neither Jul 09 05:26:34 mickeyl likes vala, and it looks quite good to me too Jul 09 05:26:42 yeah, thats always the case with mono, its gotta do the JIT compilation at launch Jul 09 05:26:47 seg|ars: A few osm things are beginning to show up, like http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Rana Jul 09 05:26:49 but there are ways to skip JIT Jul 09 05:26:54 to make it faster Jul 09 05:27:02 using AOT Jul 09 05:27:04 (though that's not quite ready yet) Jul 09 05:27:19 bobkare: oh that looks cool. I could probably even hack on that Jul 09 05:27:36 I think it's designed to be really hackable Jul 09 05:27:55 Also for doing data collection right away tangogps works Jul 09 05:28:04 is there a dbus interface to the GPS system? Jul 09 05:28:24 seg|ars: how long till gwibber is running on it? Jul 09 05:28:39 I've been waiting on pywebkitgtk Jul 09 05:29:00 Hm, doesn't gpsd have a dbus interface? Jul 09 05:29:32 sontek: there were some people looking at getting the webkit gtk port working on it. When they get that done, I'll talk to the python binding guy and see if I can figure out how to get it working too Jul 09 05:30:53 so is the ASU stack going to be pushed before FSO is done? Jul 09 05:30:59 will GTK apps still work well in it? Jul 09 05:32:32 ah found the pywebkitgtk bug report: http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3028 Jul 09 05:32:39 that's what I need done before I can port gwibber Jul 09 05:34:58 I bought it :) Jul 09 05:35:03 sontek: the asu stack is all x11, so there is no reason why GTK+ wouldn't work on it Jul 09 05:35:26 the problem, as I understand it, is that the phone stuff on ASU will only be accessible to Qt apps until FSO is in place Jul 09 05:35:39 sontek: Good choice :) Jul 09 05:36:12 seg|ars: only calling/SMS stuff? or wont be able to access the Internet or anything? Jul 09 05:36:25 that I'm not sure about Jul 09 05:36:43 I couldn't get an internet connection at all with ASU in the qemu environment Jul 09 05:36:59 I think it's only the gsm and pim stuff Jul 09 05:37:10 Net should work as usually Jul 09 05:37:28 I'd love to port Tomboy to it, we have it running on maemo Jul 09 05:37:32 oh nice Jul 09 05:37:38 I didn't know that had been ported to maemo Jul 09 05:37:49 are there packages for that somewhere? Jul 09 05:37:53 and does it work with syncing? Jul 09 05:38:23 it would be really cool to be able to take my tomboy notes with me on my internet tablet Jul 09 05:38:52 http://code.google.com/p/tomboy-maemo/ Jul 09 05:38:56 thanks Jul 09 05:39:10 ooh, yeah, that'd be nice Jul 09 05:39:16 I'm not sure if syncing worked well on maemo ( I don't have n810 ) Jul 09 05:39:18 sync tomboy between desktop, laptop and phone Jul 09 05:39:23 but i'll make sure it works on the moko Jul 09 05:39:31 I'll have mine 2nd day air am :P Jul 09 05:39:34 nice Jul 09 05:39:45 2nd day air is the same as ground Jul 09 05:39:53 unless u order nda Jul 09 05:40:10 huh? Jul 09 05:40:27 ground usually takes 3-5 depending on where its coming from Jul 09 05:40:36 u know what else is a bit sad, is that UPS offers split shipping for the same price on orders of (i.e.) 10 packs :/ Jul 09 05:41:09 i'm excited to play with it now =) I should've just did next day :P Jul 09 05:41:24 seg|ars: I blame you for the whole in my wallet Jul 09 05:41:32 lol Jul 09 05:41:40 yeah, i wish i did something other than ground now, since with the way things are going, i probably won't get mine til monday at this rate :/ Jul 09 05:42:12 yeah it sucks Jul 09 05:42:13 I want mine for the weekend :D Jul 09 05:42:18 me too Jul 09 05:42:25 me 10 Jul 09 05:42:28 might still get it, but i doubt it. Jul 09 05:42:36 seg|ars: are you getting one to do a full review ? Jul 09 05:42:49 if it doesn't leave tomorrow am, i won't have it before monday Jul 09 05:42:57 sontek: yeah, they are going to send me a review unit Jul 09 05:43:03 you guys are lucky, the 900's haven't even been released et :( Jul 09 05:44:07 What was the reason for not going quadband? Jul 09 05:44:19 hard to support in open hardware? Jul 09 05:44:30 to get us to buy gta03 :p Jul 09 05:44:35 early design decision Jul 09 05:44:44 haha Jul 09 05:44:47 from the sounds of it, they didn't realize they could do quadband until too late Jul 09 05:45:00 They are going to have to drop the price soon, they are lucky they have fanboys like us Jul 09 05:45:01 I hope the next version of the hardware has 3g support Jul 09 05:45:07 and to change to quadband would have been a fairly large change, and thus further delay... Jul 09 05:45:14 because that $199 3g iphone was tempting Jul 09 05:45:21 hehe, yeah Jul 09 05:45:31 I really wish beagle would stop trying to index my sshfs mounts Jul 09 05:45:42 I hate that Jul 09 05:46:39 i'm happy being an early adopter if it means funding further development down the track Jul 09 05:47:36 yup, that was half the reason i bought one. Jul 09 05:47:44 the other half being i want to dev on it Jul 09 05:48:05 yeah, I want to make sure GTK apps are 2nd class citizens on it Jul 09 05:48:17 aren't* Jul 09 05:48:25 * nullpuppy nods Jul 09 05:48:33 sontek: That's better! Jul 09 05:48:41 i'm going to work on porting Tomboy and probably help seg|ars port gwibber over Jul 09 05:48:47 cool Jul 09 05:48:50 i'm leaning towards running some wierd FSO/ASU/om2007.2 setup Jul 09 05:49:06 probably aim to see if i can get sms to work on FSO Jul 09 05:49:09 does the gtk+ stack have gconf? I didn't even check that Jul 09 05:49:37 though, after seeing seg|ars's screenshots, asu doesn't look so hideous (the image i played with in qemu didn't work well) Jul 09 05:49:53 lol you tested something that looked worse than that? Jul 09 05:49:54 asu looks pretty sweet. it's got nice animation from what i've seen Jul 09 05:50:06 the animation is good, but the artwork needs a ton of work Jul 09 05:50:14 lol to get the iphone 3g here for $199 you have to pay $250 per month for the plan and you only get like 1 gig data 600 texts and like 600 mins talktime or something Jul 09 05:50:18 seg|ars: no, what you have is about right, but it was slow as hell Jul 09 05:50:24 but.....there's boots! on the boot screen! i think that's awesome :P Jul 09 05:50:41 hehe Jul 09 05:50:41 nullpuppy: have you seen this? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Stable_Hybrid_Release Jul 09 05:50:41 yeah Jul 09 05:50:45 seg|ars: it seems to have Jul 09 05:50:51 alphabea1: they just need it booting something Jul 09 05:50:56 like the neo Jul 09 05:51:10 alphabea1: i've seen it mentioned and looked at it briefly, not in detail thouhg Jul 09 05:51:15 * nullpuppy looks again Jul 09 05:51:35 xzcvczx: yeah, I have t-mobile, $50/month 1000 minutes, unlimited nights, weekends, unlimited text, and fave 5 Jul 09 05:52:13 sontek: yeah in this little crappy end of the earth we have no unlimited plans for anything Jul 09 05:52:15 * nullpuppy is paying ~$200 a month w/ t-mobile (family plan w/ 3 phones) 2000 minutes, unlimited text, unlimited nights, weekends, etc Jul 09 05:52:22 no fave 5, but i could care less about that Jul 09 05:52:35 wait, 4 phones, not 3 Jul 09 05:53:01 for $50/month here you would get 20mins on peak 100 mins off peak and 600 texts with no data Jul 09 05:53:08 I could go down to a 30 minute plan with my fave 5 Jul 09 05:53:21 xzcvczx: ouch :/ Jul 09 05:53:24 I talk to my fave 5 over 1000 minutes a month, but outside them I order pizza and call 411 :P Jul 09 05:53:30 nullpuppy: indeed Jul 09 05:53:35 sontek: hehe Jul 09 05:53:43 * nullpuppy thinks Jul 09 05:54:03 with unlimited mobile-mobile, and fave 5 i could probably do close to that Jul 09 05:54:17 i have what i believe you call fave is bestmates here and its $6 for unlimited calling texting and video calling Jul 09 05:54:42 and i have it hooked up to a voip gateway so unlimited landline calls pretty much around the world Jul 09 05:54:53 video calling? Jul 09 05:54:56 on a mobile phone? Jul 09 05:55:03 are there any voip apps on the moko? Jul 09 05:55:05 yeah Jul 09 05:55:05 that'd be nice =) Jul 09 05:55:12 sontek: that and LCR Jul 09 05:55:24 phonekit is in 2007.2 and ophoned is asu right? Jul 09 05:55:25 xzcvczx: I have never seen a mobile phone that can do video calls. :-P Jul 09 05:55:31 sontek: but that would still require you to be in range of an openwifi/someone elses bluetooth Jul 09 05:55:44 yeah Jul 09 05:55:49 seg|ars: most that have come out in the past 2-3 years can Jul 09 05:55:52 I think 90% of the time i'm near wifi Jul 09 05:56:02 xzcvczx: where are you located? Jul 09 05:56:04 our public transportation as wifi Jul 09 05:56:17 sontek: no offence but i hate you Jul 09 05:56:18 and everywhere else t-mobile has hotspots (in starbucks and airports) Jul 09 05:56:22 seg|ars: nz Jul 09 05:56:47 xzcvczx: you might hate me because of wifi, but I hate you because nz is beautiful Jul 09 05:56:48 our public transit is slowly rolling out wifi Jul 09 05:57:03 xzcvczx: it sounds like you pay a ton for service, but your country is more technologically advanced. Video calling is mythical here. Jul 09 05:57:04 xzcvczx: I went sailing there in May Jul 09 05:57:08 sontek: where abouts are you? Jul 09 05:57:14 nullpuppy: i'm in Utah Jul 09 05:57:21 ah, awesome Jul 09 05:57:30 sontek: wherebouts? Jul 09 05:58:57 xzcvczx: we started in Auckland Jul 09 05:59:04 * nullpuppy sighs Jul 09 05:59:06 I want my phone ;) Jul 09 05:59:23 http://digg.com/linux_unix/First_Look_OpenMoko_s_Linux_based_open_smartphone_platform Jul 09 05:59:44 seg|ars: dugg! Jul 09 05:59:47 thanks! Jul 09 05:59:57 redditted? Jul 09 05:59:59 if this one hits the front page of digg, it will be my fifth in a row Jul 09 06:00:09 do you get payed extra? Jul 09 06:00:35 no Jul 09 06:00:41 but I like competing with the other ars staff members Jul 09 06:00:41 damn Jul 09 06:00:46 I kicked ass last month Jul 09 06:00:46 ah true Jul 09 06:01:08 I had 13 on the front page of digg in june Jul 09 06:01:35 aww, dig kills tags Jul 09 06:01:44 I had my comment wrapped in Jul 09 06:01:48 lol Jul 09 06:02:49 http://www.reddit.com/info/6qw1a/comments/ Jul 09 06:02:52 reddited! Jul 09 06:03:26 nullpuppy maybe resubmit to the linux subreddit? Jul 09 06:03:40 not a bad idea Jul 09 06:04:36 bah, 7 minutes :/ Jul 09 06:04:51 i can do it for you ;) Jul 09 06:04:56 k :) Jul 09 06:05:05 heh i was kidding. you can have the karma Jul 09 06:05:14 * nullpuppy shrugs Jul 09 06:06:19 http://www.reddit.com/info/6qw1r/comments/ Jul 09 06:07:31 hmm.. 3g iphone add.. they need ratings on their ads! Jul 09 06:07:34 *thumbs down* Jul 09 06:07:39 lol Jul 09 06:07:49 is that on digg? Jul 09 06:08:49 reddit Jul 09 06:09:52 sontek: have you tried digg support in gwibber yet? Jul 09 06:10:35 it's currently a bit mediocre, but I'm playing with some cool ideas for it Jul 09 06:10:46 like showing the digg count in the bubble: http://cixar.com/~segphault/img/screenshots/applications/utilities/gwibber/wk_experiment1.png Jul 09 06:11:11 i need a high res openmoko log Jul 09 06:12:10 seg|ars: thats cool =) Jul 09 06:12:17 seg|ars: I've only used it for twitter and identi.ca so far Jul 09 06:12:24 ah Jul 09 06:12:34 the identi.ca functionality is still kind of a hack Jul 09 06:12:50 yeah, they need to get an API Jul 09 06:13:00 I was talking to evan about that tonight Jul 09 06:13:15 he says that they just hired somebody to do the api implementation Jul 09 06:13:30 I was also trying to talk him into setting up a standard path for user profile images Jul 09 06:13:36 so I can include those properly in the client Jul 09 06:13:43 yeah Jul 09 06:13:51 I think his best bet is to just copy twitters Jul 09 06:13:58 for the api? Yeah Jul 09 06:13:58 then he gets the benefit of all twitter apps working for it Jul 09 06:14:05 that's definitely his goal Jul 09 06:14:35 the guy who makes the Spaz twitter client has already said that he would make it possible to use identi.ca if they clone the twitter api Jul 09 06:14:45 and I think a lot of other client developers out there would do it too Jul 09 06:15:00 Twhirl apparently has its own really weird thing though Jul 09 06:15:17 like atom-enhanced xmpp or something I had not heard of before Jul 09 06:16:27 pfft, nobody wants spaz when you have gwibber Jul 09 06:16:40 haha except for maybe... windows users. ;-) Jul 09 06:17:08 What's qwibber? Jul 09 06:17:10 I might make a qt frontend for gwibber just so I can port it to windows/os x Jul 09 06:17:29 rtm: it's my microblogging client. It supports twitter, jaiku, facebook, pownce, and identi.ca Jul 09 06:17:48 Thanks! Jul 09 06:18:44 rtm: http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/2097/screenshot33xd9.png Jul 09 06:19:21 It must be very new - google searches turn up virtually nothing about it. Jul 09 06:19:35 it's my personal pet project. I haven't done an official release yet Jul 09 06:20:03 I started it so that I'd have a real-world project for testing the development technologies that I write about Jul 09 06:20:05 and it kind of grew Jul 09 06:20:15 seg|ars: What's that on-screen keyboard in the last screenshot on the first page? is it some custom thing you've installed? I only have this numeric thing and no qwerty... Jul 09 06:20:43 could it be something that's part of qemu maybe? Jul 09 06:20:53 hmm maybe not Jul 09 06:21:04 it's visibility toggles when I click the keyboard icon in the top bar Jul 09 06:21:09 so I guess it's part of the platform Jul 09 06:21:26 I didn't do anything special to get it Jul 09 06:21:30 it was just there Jul 09 06:22:01 weird, i've tested several images and never seen anything like it. the keyboard I have really sucks for terminal usage since there is for example no way to enter / Jul 09 06:22:15 are you using qemu? Jul 09 06:22:22 or are you talking about on an actual device? Jul 09 06:22:23 no, I've gotten my freerunner Jul 09 06:22:58 I'm pretty sure that all the 2007.2 images I tested had it Jul 09 06:23:36 anyone here have bitbake experience? Jul 09 06:23:50 why does my bitbake file always insist on checking out revision 1? (svn co -r 1 repo) Jul 09 06:24:00 Hm, must be something different about the qemu builds or something Jul 09 06:24:28 hmm, 2gb micro sd card w/ adapter on woot.com, for $6 Jul 09 06:24:35 (and $5 shipping) Jul 09 06:24:52 nullpuppy: where? 0.o Jul 09 06:24:56 woot.com Jul 09 06:24:56 woot.com Jul 09 06:25:01 I need a good cheap usb stick... Jul 09 06:25:01 lmao Jul 09 06:25:04 woot is awesome ;) Jul 09 06:25:15 is that for real? Jul 09 06:25:18 yup Jul 09 06:25:21 nullpuppy: They know the neo was released, this is perfect before it (besides the fact it already comes with it) Jul 09 06:25:36 bkruse: yeah, but this is bigger ;) Jul 09 06:25:38 tempting... Jul 09 06:25:47 nope Jul 09 06:25:50 2gb for $11 or 8gb for ~40 Jul 09 06:26:00 i thought the neo is shipping with 512mb Jul 09 06:26:01 seg|ars: my only complaint about gwibber is launchpad + bzr Jul 09 06:26:03 :P Jul 09 06:26:11 wow Jul 09 06:26:13 w00t! Jul 09 06:26:21 sontek: I was using trac before, and I consider launchpad an improvement in most ways Jul 09 06:26:28 and I like bzr Jul 09 06:26:55 I know it probably frustrates people who aren't on ubuntu Jul 09 06:27:14 seg|ars: I prefer git over bzr, but more of because familiarity with it over bzr Jul 09 06:27:23 ah Jul 09 06:27:24 <3 git Jul 09 06:27:33 but lp just annoys me, its not very clean/organized Jul 09 06:27:50 hmm, those 2gb micro sd's are tempting Jul 09 06:27:52 it's definitely a bit cluttered Jul 09 06:28:02 anyone found out if 8db sdhc cards work yet? Jul 09 06:28:03 yeah Jul 09 06:28:05 my biggest complaint with launchpad is just that it's slow Jul 09 06:28:06 *8gb Jul 09 06:28:29 seg|ars: what's your client written in? Jul 09 06:28:33 I have an 8GB Sandisk in my neo1973. Works like a charm. Jul 09 06:28:36 seg|ars: at work we use a combination of trac + git + svn Jul 09 06:28:39 (looks great.) Jul 09 06:28:40 ah sweet thanks rtm Jul 09 06:28:46 trac + git at work here. Jul 09 06:28:47 cjb: thanks! It's python and gtk Jul 09 06:28:49 seg|ars: all developers uses git personally and push to svn repo when done Jul 09 06:29:00 seg|ars: ooh. you might think about an OLPC port. Jul 09 06:29:08 cjb: that's a cool idea Jul 09 06:29:20 sontek: svn is so braindead Jul 09 06:29:30 sontek: now that I'm not using it anymore I can't believe I suffered with it for as long as I did Jul 09 06:29:37 seg|ars: you can get the OLPC environment with {apt-get,yum} install sugar, and it's all python based, so pretty easy to develop for Jul 09 06:29:54 cjb: yeah, I played around with some of the sugar python stuff once before Jul 09 06:30:04 it seems like sugar is kind of on its way out at olpc though. :-( Jul 09 06:30:13 actually, it's not at all Jul 09 06:30:19 Didn't they announce olpc is going winxp? :( Jul 09 06:30:19 and it really sucks that we gave people that impression Jul 09 06:30:29 see e.g. http://gregdek.livejournal.com/31067.html , which just got posted today Jul 09 06:31:07 cjb: man that's such a different story than what I get from olpc pr and from negroponte Jul 09 06:31:12 there haven't actually been any Windows sales. when/if there are, they'll be dual-boot machines, not Windows only Jul 09 06:31:29 seg|ars: yeah :( Jul 09 06:31:46 we've actually doubled the size of the sugar team this year Jul 09 06:31:56 it's crazy that we let people think we're ditching it :( Jul 09 06:32:23 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4517 10/developers/erin_yueh/pythonEFL-sudoku/src/sudoku_ui.py: add solve function (Erin Yueh) Jul 09 06:32:26 it's good to hear that it's still going strong Jul 09 06:32:41 I like a lot of things about sugar Jul 09 06:32:55 yeah, that's the important part. orders are going pretty well, we're writing good code. Jul 09 06:32:58 and I'm hoping that it gets a broader audience beyond just olpc Jul 09 06:33:13 as a journalist, watching the olpc stuff this past year has just been painful Jul 09 06:33:20 like a trainwreck in slow motion Jul 09 06:33:21 seg|ars: we had a push to get Sugar in fedora/ubuntu a month or two ago, that's why you can apt-get or yum install it now. So we hear you :) Jul 09 06:33:38 yeah, that's good Jul 09 06:33:45 it's been a rough time. the project's worth hanging on to, though. Jul 09 06:33:48 having it easily available on mainstream distros will hopefully also grow the developer community Jul 09 06:33:52 yeah Jul 09 06:34:01 a lot of it seems like just bad luck Jul 09 06:34:18 the bizarre lancor litigation, the terrible shipping screwups, the keyboard failures, etc Jul 09 06:34:29 I keep hoping that it's all just exaggerated Jul 09 06:34:31 heh, yeah. Jul 09 06:34:37 the keyboard failures are definitely exaggerated. Jul 09 06:34:52 we've been asking people to record if they're affected on a wiki page, when they mail us etc Jul 09 06:35:17 and we have like 50 reports out of 80,000 units. <0.1%, etc. Jul 09 06:35:31 that's not too bad at all Jul 09 06:35:39 yay, 2x2gb micro sd ordered Jul 09 06:35:45 woot for woot.com Jul 09 06:35:47 yeah. it's still a problem, but we think it's one we've fixed. Jul 09 06:35:59 cjb: are any of the plans for the next gen model realistic, or is that mostly pipe dream stuff at this point? Jul 09 06:36:32 the impression that I got when negroponte announced the new model with the book form-factor was that it was kind of like damage control, to distract from the other problems and stuff Jul 09 06:36:39 it's hard to gauge how realistic it is Jul 09 06:36:43 realistic in theory. I have very good faith in the hardware designers. Jul 09 06:37:03 heh, I guess it's possible. it had been in the works for many months, though. Jul 09 06:37:17 that's good to hear Jul 09 06:37:34 when it was presented, it felt like they just threw together a few mockups or something Jul 09 06:37:44 people said the new things about the gen1 laptop -- sunlight-readable screen, mesh, power, price, were impossible too. gen2 doesn't seem nearly as hard. :) Jul 09 06:37:53 yeah Jul 09 06:38:00 the screen on the current models is amazing Jul 09 06:38:10 it totally exceeded my expectations Jul 09 06:38:35 yeah. Mary Lou's a genius. Jul 09 06:39:30 I was very skeptical about the sunlight readability claims until I saw it in person Jul 09 06:39:46 I've been between getting an xo and an hp 2133 Jul 09 06:39:50 I'm looking forward to seeing that kind of dual-mode screen technology in a wider range of commercial devices Jul 09 06:39:57 leaning more towards 2133 Jul 09 06:40:01 sontek: those look interesting Jul 09 06:40:06 sontek: have you seen the pictures of the dell subnotebook Jul 09 06:40:09 but the screen in the xo does interest me Jul 09 06:40:28 I like the resolution on it, 1200x900. Jul 09 06:40:28 seg|ars: nope, didn't know they were working on one Jul 09 06:40:46 sontek: I've been drooling over this ever since I saw it: http://gizmodo.com/393815/exclusive-dell-mini-inspiron-their-first-mini-laptop Jul 09 06:41:08 of course, these are pretty different to the XO technically -- twice the power, twice the price. Jul 09 06:41:09 cjb: yeah, that resolution is great. It's perfect for ebooks Jul 09 06:41:29 morning Jul 09 06:41:35 but I guess we only sell the XO at 2* cost (for 2 laptops), so people naturally compare the price. Jul 09 06:42:13 I guess three times the price, for the HP. Jul 09 06:42:41 people say that OLPC caused the industry to start being cheap laptops, but they're still at least twice as expensive as they should be :) Jul 09 06:42:51 cjb: how does the xo feel? is its keyboard easy to type on? Jul 09 06:43:02 cjb: does it stay battery powered for long? or are you always cranking it? Jul 09 06:43:16 during my testing, I found the battery life to be ok Jul 09 06:43:26 sontek: I'm working on the power management software. Got 16 hours on a test recently, backlight half-dimmed and wireless off. Jul 09 06:43:29 the rubberized keys are kind of meant for smaller fingers Jul 09 06:43:37 I didn't like the eeepc 7", I think I need 9" Jul 09 06:43:39 the interesting thing about the battery life is that it's all about how good we can make the software Jul 09 06:44:09 most times you're just constrained by hardware. but since we can turn off the XO CPU and leave the screen on, the battery life depends a lot on how often we can do that without you noticing. Jul 09 06:44:15 it seems like the gnome community in general is a lot more careful about energy efficiency now Jul 09 06:44:36 the keyboard looked very rubbery/toyish, does it bother you to type on it? or do pictures not do it justice? Jul 09 06:44:52 sontek: it's not the most comfortable keyboard, for sure Jul 09 06:44:56 I didn't mind the rubber. What bothered me was the small size of the keys Jul 09 06:45:06 sontek: I can touch type on it now, but it took lots of practice. Jul 09 06:45:16 My main reason for wanting an xo would be for hacking out on the lake in the sunlight Jul 09 06:45:17 * cjb == typing on XO keyboards for about 1.5 years now. Jul 09 06:45:48 my dell inspiron with its glossy finish isn't usable in the sunlight Jul 09 06:47:12 sontek: you save a lot of power by being able to turn the backlight off there. We measured 21 hours before the battery dead, with backlight off and wireless off. Jul 09 06:47:19 (reading PDF ebooks) Jul 09 06:47:23 s/dead/died/ Jul 09 06:47:42 the nice thing about ebooks is that you can have the CPU on only for as long as it takes to render the next page Jul 09 06:47:46 that's how it gets so high Jul 09 06:48:25 and in the b&w mode, the screen is more responsive than the epaper tech used in conventional ebook readers Jul 09 06:48:43 so it depends what people are after from a laptop -- if you really care about power outdoors, I'd definitely go with the XO over some power-hungry subnotebook Jul 09 06:49:04 cjb: can the cpu toggle be automatic, or do you specifically tell it to turn on/off as you turn pages? Jul 09 06:49:10 sontek: it is automatic Jul 09 06:49:40 a local friend is selling his xo because he prefers eeepc, I might have to pick that up now too Jul 09 06:49:45 at least in our PDF reader. every time it finishes rendering a page it sleeps, and then the button keypresses to change page wake it up. Jul 09 06:49:47 * sontek stops hanging out with seg|ars Jul 09 06:50:06 * nullpuppy was considering an eeepc, wanting an msi wind at this point though Jul 09 06:50:16 I like my eee Jul 09 06:50:21 it's my main laptop for event coverage now Jul 09 06:50:30 the wind is a tiny bit bigger, and uses a standard sata drive Jul 09 06:50:38 and has a 1.6ghz atom ;) Jul 09 06:50:49 yeah, I have different needs, I don't mind caring my 15" laptop at conferences, but when i'm out boating, I still want to code once in awhile Jul 09 06:50:49 seg|ars: how much battery life do you get out of it? Jul 09 06:50:56 I think there are two screen sizes on the Wind? Jul 09 06:51:01 the eee? I get just over 3 hours when I'm using wifi Jul 09 06:51:02 now if I can tether my moko to my olpc for internet.... Jul 09 06:51:08 sontek: yeah, hence why i want a wind :) Jul 09 06:51:14 cjb: yeah, 8.9 and a 10.2 Jul 09 06:51:22 I'm hoping that the eee will get better battery life when they put an atom in it Jul 09 06:51:26 it's like the eeepc though in that it's the same shell Jul 09 06:51:29 the wind doesn't have the screen that works well in light Jul 09 06:51:33 does it? Jul 09 06:51:34 sontek: probably best to get a bluetooth adapter (USB) for the OLPC Jul 09 06:51:39 I don't think so Jul 09 06:51:52 sontek: dunno Jul 09 06:52:20 hm, bedtime. happy subnotebook purchasing all. :) Jul 09 06:52:20 I spend my time jet skiing and scuba diving on the weekends, the xo would be perfect for chilling in the back of the boat and getting work done Jul 09 06:52:24 i'd telecommute more =) Jul 09 06:52:34 sontek: it's water-resistant (within reason), too Jul 09 06:52:43 cjb: damn you Jul 09 06:52:57 thats another $200 gone ;p Jul 09 06:52:58 you can dunk water on the keyboard without anything happening, at least. immersing the main body is a bad idea. Jul 09 06:53:20 hehe Jul 09 06:53:29 * seg|ars was very tempted to do stress testing with his test unit Jul 09 06:53:58 I just emailed zelut, i'll have an olpc tomorrow :P Jul 09 06:54:00 seg|ars: there's video somewhere from someone tipping a bucket of water over it on live TV :) Jul 09 06:54:04 nice Jul 09 06:54:07 cjb: is there any plans to bring the xo to general public ordering? Jul 09 06:54:18 nullpuppy: yes, in a few months Jul 09 06:54:24 awesome. Jul 09 06:55:32 I hadn't heard that Jul 09 06:55:36 I wonder if it's public knowledge Jul 09 06:55:44 I wouldn't mention it if it wasn't :) Jul 09 06:55:45 moment Jul 09 06:56:02 it was made public at the same time as the Gen2 announcement Jul 09 06:56:10 oh I must have missed that Jul 09 06:56:16 sweet Jul 09 06:56:20 that's cool Jul 09 06:56:54 tis an awesome piece of hardware. really wanted one when the launched, but didn't have the money. maybe by the time they're available that'll change. Jul 09 06:57:12 http://blog.laptopmag.com/first-look-olpc-xo-generation-20 # Negroponte ended his speech by announcing that the Give 1, Get 1 program, which allows consumers to give one laptop to a child in the developing world and get a low-cost laptop for themselves, will start up again in August or September 2008. Jul 09 06:57:21 nullpuppy: pfft, I don't have the money either, you don't see that stopping me! ;p Jul 09 06:57:38 nullpuppy: thats why god invented ramen noodles and free samples at grocery stores ;) Jul 09 06:57:44 lol Jul 09 06:58:18 g'night Jul 09 06:58:29 I usually get loaner units of all the hot linux hardware Jul 09 06:58:36 is the xo good for devs though? python and mono run well on it? gtk? Jul 09 06:58:45 python/gtk is great on it Jul 09 06:58:48 good terminal? Jul 09 06:58:49 sontek: the UI is *written* in python/gtk Jul 09 06:58:56 sontek: lol, i have a mortgage payment that has to be paid somehow Jul 09 06:59:05 if i didn't need to worry about that, things would be different ;) Jul 09 06:59:06 that's why the ui is so slow ;( Jul 09 06:59:14 nullpuppy: now yuo have no excuse for getting one, refi! Jul 09 06:59:21 ecraven: yeah :/ we found some neat optimizations recently Jul 09 06:59:31 we don't launch a python interpreter per-activity anymore, we reuse one Jul 09 06:59:35 haha Jul 09 06:59:37 do i understand correctly that the ability to make phone calls and send texts etc. is implemented *below* dbus, so i could build an entirely different ui and not worry about the implementation details? Jul 09 06:59:43 sontek: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Terminal Jul 09 06:59:44 sontek: i can't for another 2.5 years Jul 09 06:59:47 or i Jul 09 06:59:48 cjb: is that included in the newest asu images? Jul 09 06:59:51 'll be penalized Jul 09 07:00:05 cjb: ok, i'll stop asking questions :) goodnight Jul 09 07:00:07 thanks for the info Jul 09 07:00:07 ecraven: I'm talking about OLPC :) Jul 09 07:00:14 cjb: oh, sorry ;) Jul 09 07:00:16 sontek: you can break out of the top ui layer and get a regular working gnome desktop on it Jul 09 07:00:33 good morning Jul 09 07:00:33 but openmoko is interesting too! sleep now. Jul 09 07:00:54 so I hangout with seg|ars on irc for one night and I end up with an olpc and an openmoko Jul 09 07:01:00 LOL Jul 09 07:01:05 I'm a bad influence Jul 09 07:01:18 my gadget lust must be contagious Jul 09 07:01:23 yeah Mr. I get everything for free! ;) Jul 09 07:01:27 lol Jul 09 07:01:31 spoiled! Jul 09 07:01:41 but now i'm pretty excited Jul 09 07:01:52 if I can get the xo using my openmoko for internet... Jul 09 07:01:58 i'm selling the house and moving out on the lake :P Jul 09 07:02:08 hehe Jul 09 07:02:20 the openmoko doesn't do 3g though. :-( Jul 09 07:02:27 that's the deal-breaker for me Jul 09 07:02:39 thats ok, I just need enough internet to commit and checkout ;P Jul 09 07:02:40 if it did 3g, I'd want to make it my primary phone Jul 09 07:02:46 lol Jul 09 07:02:55 i wish i had a tiny bit more dev experience. tempted to try and make my way into openmoko the company doing dev work Jul 09 07:02:57 I have t-mobile, so I don't get 3g anyways Jul 09 07:03:31 my mac-loving coworkers keep trying to talk me into getting an iphone. :-P Jul 09 07:03:41 I'm interviewing at Novell for their SLED team on thursday Jul 09 07:03:50 cool Jul 09 07:03:58 don't fall to the peer pressure! Jul 09 07:04:03 lol Jul 09 07:04:10 i don't really want an iphone. i wouldn't mind an ipod touch, but i don't think i'll need it now with the freerunner Jul 09 07:04:13 I want to play with it to see what it does well Jul 09 07:04:14 apple fandom is practically a disease at ars Jul 09 07:04:19 that way we can improve the moko Jul 09 07:04:33 my managing editor gave me his quad-core mac pro at a really low price so he could entice me to write articles about cocoa programming Jul 09 07:04:42 haha Jul 09 07:04:44 haha Jul 09 07:04:47 after about an hour with os x, I partitioned it and installed ubuntu Jul 09 07:04:52 lol Jul 09 07:04:52 nice Jul 09 07:05:06 I hear obj-c is actually really nice to hack in Jul 09 07:05:12 but I love my python and C# Jul 09 07:05:18 no room in my heart for a 3rd Jul 09 07:05:21 yeah, I much prefer C# over obj-c Jul 09 07:05:40 the os x development ecosystem has pretty good support for python and ruby tho Jul 09 07:05:46 you can make native cocoa apps with python Jul 09 07:05:52 and it's fully supported in the IDE and everything Jul 09 07:06:00 that aspect of the platform is pretty cool Jul 09 07:06:06 but I hate how inflexible the UI is Jul 09 07:06:21 ... you can't get me to get a mac too! Jul 09 07:06:28 * sontek draws the line Jul 09 07:06:29 lol Jul 09 07:06:35 just run os x in vmware Jul 09 07:06:46 I could dual boot it, it runs on intel now Jul 09 07:06:53 leopard apparently runs unmodified on the msi wind ;) Jul 09 07:06:54 i find x-code a pita to code in... and lack of good docs Jul 09 07:06:56 i tried using os x for a coupleof hours Jul 09 07:07:06 it sucked Jul 09 07:07:22 zlfita: what do you use? Jul 09 07:07:24 it's really the little things that make os x unbearable Jul 09 07:07:33 like, not being able to resize windows from anywhere but the bottom right-hand corner Jul 09 07:07:34 normally ubuntu Jul 09 07:07:40 I'm not sure who thought that was a good ui concept Jul 09 07:07:53 seg|ars: its fine if its just a streaming media box Jul 09 07:08:07 why use os x as a media box? Jul 09 07:08:07 it's a good ui for those who never used an ui Jul 09 07:08:11 I prefer gnome-main-menu in suse over normal gnome menus Jul 09 07:08:12 linux works just fine for media for me Jul 09 07:08:14 lol Jul 09 07:08:15 seg|ars: frontrow Jul 09 07:08:18 but yeah, mac setup is just silly Jul 09 07:08:23 xzcvczx: have you ever tried elisa? Jul 09 07:08:39 seg|ars: last time i tried it it was much too immaturer Jul 09 07:08:41 -r Jul 09 07:08:41 xzcvczx: it's a perfect front row clone for Linux: http://elisa.fluendo.com/ Jul 09 07:08:42 there is also an alternative to elisa that uses clutter instead of pigment called entertainer Jul 09 07:08:54 http://www.entertainer-project.com/ Jul 09 07:08:59 its pretty new Jul 09 07:09:00 but sexy Jul 09 07:09:03 i've got a popcorn hour for my media box. Jul 09 07:09:04 mature? Jul 09 07:09:09 awesome piece of technology it is. Jul 09 07:09:12 the only thing I don't like about elisa is that it doesn't let me configure subtitle fonts Jul 09 07:09:15 s/mature/actually working? Jul 09 07:09:17 just need a decent nas now Jul 09 07:09:25 elisa is very mature Jul 09 07:09:35 what version? Jul 09 07:09:37 I switched to it from my hacked xbox awhile ago Jul 09 07:09:38 nullpuppy: if you are looking for a good nas, check out the Netgear ReadyNAS Jul 09 07:09:57 nullpuppy: I have one with four 1TB hard drives. It kicks ass Jul 09 07:10:04 xzcvczx: http://elisa.fluendo.com/screenshots/ Jul 09 07:10:08 xzcvczx: that has a videocast on it Jul 09 07:10:10 hmm Jul 09 07:10:16 seg|ars: user accessible drives? Jul 09 07:10:24 nullpuppy: hm? Jul 09 07:10:40 does it come with drives? or can i replace them without voiding the warranty? :) Jul 09 07:10:55 nullpuppy: you can buy it with as many drives as you want. I bought mine empty and put my 1TB drives in it Jul 09 07:11:02 you can just open it and put them into the trays Jul 09 07:11:04 ok, awesome. Jul 09 07:11:21 nullpuppy: it can do these really crazy raid tricks Jul 09 07:11:30 like you can dynamically expand it with drives of different sizes Jul 09 07:11:32 it's bizarre Jul 09 07:11:36 seg|ars: raid? Jul 09 07:11:39 oh Jul 09 07:11:39 sweet Jul 09 07:11:43 sounds like jbod Jul 09 07:11:58 they call it x-raid. It's a proprietary thing I think Jul 09 07:11:58 i want a netapp box. those things are awesome Jul 09 07:12:07 the other thing I like about the readynas is that it's extensible Jul 09 07:12:14 holy crap Jul 09 07:12:15 it's possible to make plugins for it and stuff Jul 09 07:12:20 they have a whole bittorrent client and everything Jul 09 07:12:22 $900 for the damn box without drives Jul 09 07:12:23 hmm Jul 09 07:12:31 yeah, it's pricey Jul 09 07:12:42 nullpuppy: cheaper building your own with zfs ;) Jul 09 07:12:50 think i'll just build one from scratch then ;) Jul 09 07:13:06 alphabea1: how so? i could replace that hardware for less then that... Jul 09 07:13:24 most expensive part would be the raid controller Jul 09 07:13:34 why not software raid? Jul 09 07:13:44 i could do that Jul 09 07:13:51 would be cheaper ;) Jul 09 07:14:06 hmm Jul 09 07:14:25 i'll figure something out eventually, no money right now anyways Jul 09 07:15:33 alright, i'm gonna head to bed. Jul 09 07:15:36 catch ya'll later Jul 09 07:15:37 g'night Jul 09 07:15:41 good night Jul 09 07:17:22 what time is it where you are seg|ars? Jul 09 07:17:42 12:17 am Jul 09 07:18:05 I'm in california Jul 09 07:19:20 I work from home, so my hours are weird Jul 09 07:22:34 seg|ars: how many articles are you required to write per month? Jul 09 07:22:57 seg|ars: you have to have the best job ever :P "play with linux" Jul 09 07:23:14 there isn't really a set number of articles per month because it kind of varies depending on how complex they are and stuff like that Jul 09 07:23:21 but I typically do about 40 articles a month Jul 09 07:23:26 the more prolific ars writers do about 90 Jul 09 07:23:36 I really do love what I do Jul 09 07:23:38 it's an awesome job Jul 09 07:23:44 pfft, lets see them get 15 digg front pages Jul 09 07:23:52 lol they don't Jul 09 07:24:01 I usually get more on digg than the rest of the staff Jul 09 07:24:06 linux stuff does insanely well on digg Jul 09 07:24:11 yeah Jul 09 07:24:24 and firefox stuff too Jul 09 07:24:26 my vim + python blog post was the first time I was dugg Jul 09 07:24:33 that was pretty cool Jul 09 07:24:46 I remember digging that Jul 09 07:28:02 digg provides way too much entertainment for me Jul 09 07:28:09 morning Jul 09 07:28:16 I hacked together this little pygtk cairo thing that shows the digg status of my latest posts Jul 09 07:28:53 pfft, easy, for (i=0; i< 0;) { print("%d diggs",0); } Jul 09 07:29:01 http://cixar.com/~segphault/tmp/diggs.png Jul 09 07:29:09 * doc|home should learn python but that should give you an idea :) Jul 09 07:30:32 I have it update every minute and sms me when one of my articles hits the front page Jul 09 07:30:44 it would be cool to port the client to openmoko Jul 09 07:30:54 seg|ars: you make some useful little apps :P Jul 09 07:31:06 yeah Jul 09 07:31:12 I've accumulated quite a toolkit over the years Jul 09 07:31:18 seg|ars: looks nice Jul 09 07:31:23 thanks Jul 09 07:32:11 sontek: the most useful little app I've ever written: http://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.ars/2008/02/04/you-can-has-lolcats-with-ruby-and-gtk Jul 09 07:33:10 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4518 10/developers/erin_yueh/pythonEFL-sudoku/src/sudoku_ui.py: add undo function (Erin Yueh) Jul 09 07:34:10 a porn site I could understand.... Jul 09 07:34:15 lol Jul 09 07:35:06 or not, given our newest guest Jul 09 07:35:15 hi Jul 09 07:35:39 lol Jul 09 07:37:29 any1 have a neo fr yet? Jul 09 07:37:55 I just tried flashing FSO on my Neo1973 Jul 09 07:38:06 the first thing I noticed is the micro SD card isn't showing up Jul 09 07:38:13 anybody know about that? Jul 09 07:38:38 i want to inquirer about the hard ware, namely the vibtatot.. is it good? Jul 09 07:39:05 t/r Jul 09 07:41:19 good? Jul 09 07:42:00 yes, is it good? Jul 09 07:42:14 the one on this phone uh vibrateas Jul 09 07:42:19 0.o Jul 09 07:42:26 what a question huh Jul 09 07:42:36 primitive electromechanical device... Jul 09 07:42:51 oh Jul 09 07:43:16 but I haven't got a Freerunner, assume it's about the same Jul 09 07:43:40 so what about FSO, anybody here running it? Jul 09 07:46:45 root 1299 10.7 18.7 17696 8564 ? S 19:41 0:03 /usr/libexec/notification-daemon any idea how to kill this task? Jul 09 07:46:59 kill -9 Jul 09 07:47:01 ? Jul 09 07:47:05 it brings it back Jul 09 07:47:41 hm Jul 09 07:48:02 if you have pstree you could see what the parent process is, which is bringing it back Jul 09 07:48:32 what is that daemon 4? Jul 09 07:48:56 ecloud: i think pstree is not in angstrom Jul 09 07:49:23 yeah maybe not Jul 09 07:49:30 swc|666: gsmd related I think it tries to register to the network Jul 09 07:50:04 swc|666: make OM GUI unusable becouse it pops out blank stripes at the bottom Jul 09 07:50:10 time for me to go to sleep Jul 09 07:50:12 good night everybody Jul 09 07:51:12 hmmmmm Jul 09 07:51:17 http://www.galago-project.org/ Jul 09 07:53:10 maybe simply removing notification-daemon as a package would fix that Jul 09 07:53:43 what happens when u kill gsmd Jul 09 07:53:57 nothing, the lines still pop out Jul 09 07:54:35 this is how it looks like http://uranus.mtveurope.org/~yang/openezx/DSC02052.JPG Jul 09 07:56:03 oh you're messing with the A780, sweet Jul 09 07:56:14 gotta try that one of these days Jul 09 07:56:58 yeah, they are cheap to get Jul 09 07:57:38 morning everybody! (CEST here) Jul 09 07:57:47 anyone got usb gadget to work with qemu? Jul 09 07:58:36 i am still waiting for my freerunner here in germany and would like to start working on some small apps Jul 09 07:59:06 unfortunately I have not found a way to copy things onto a running neo1973 in qemu yet... both pppd and usb fail : ( Jul 09 08:00:28 inside neo i see a usb0 interface but nothing the like on host side : ( Jul 09 08:00:51 using qemu as described in the wiki on 2.6.25 kernel with necessary modules compiled Jul 09 08:00:58 kernel = host system Jul 09 08:01:24 you don't have anything like a network? usblan? Jul 09 08:01:40 where? in ifconfig -a on host system? Jul 09 08:02:06 [ 3270.876065] usb 5-1: string descriptor 0 read error: -32 Jul 09 08:02:06 [ 3275.912044] usb 5-1: string descriptor 0 read error: -32 Jul 09 08:02:06 [ 3275.930838] usb 5-1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice Jul 09 08:02:06 [ 3275.932050] gadgetfs: configuration #1 Jul 09 08:02:06 [ 3280.932043] usb 5-1: can't set config #1, error -110 Jul 09 08:02:07 [ 3280.948061] usb 5-1: New USB device found, idVendor=1457, idProduct=5122 Jul 09 08:02:07 yeah, but you would need usbnet on the host system Jul 09 08:02:09 [ 3280.948073] usb 5-1: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=0 Jul 09 08:02:19 no idea if that works with qemu... Jul 09 08:02:39 hi richie23 Jul 09 08:02:43 guten morgen all Jul 09 08:03:00 guten morgen : ) Jul 09 08:03:04 richie23: you have probably looked at this http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking Jul 09 08:03:29 in fact at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu#Setting_up_USB_connection Jul 09 08:05:41 but both qemu and my host system give me errors when trying to run usb_add gadget:1 Jul 09 08:06:22 i posted the probably relevant things from host dmesg - qemu says: Jul 09 08:06:23 richie23: which error ? Jul 09 08:06:24 gadget_ep_parse: failed to configure gadgetfs: -22 Jul 09 08:06:24 gadget_read: read error Jul 09 08:06:24 s3c_udc_handle_packet: EP0 overrun Jul 09 08:06:24 gadget_read: unhandled event: 50333312 Jul 09 08:06:24 gadget_read: event error: 51 Jul 09 08:06:30 Wow. Jul 09 08:06:48 that's the qemu/neo side Jul 09 08:07:07 the host side is that what i posted with [3xxxxxx] in front some lines ago Jul 09 08:07:11 richie23: though it looks as if the config you set on your host system is invalid Jul 09 08:07:35 hmm, ok - what can i check there? Jul 09 08:08:35 Is the uid correct for gadgetsfs ? Jul 09 08:08:43 Did you put the good lines in fstab ? Jul 09 08:08:43 i am running as root (i know, bad idea, but this is a seperated development system), modprobed usbnet and mounted gadgetfs: Jul 09 08:08:45 gadget on /dev/gadget type gadgetfs (rw) Jul 09 08:08:59 permissions ? Jul 09 08:09:25 Did you double check that all necessary modules were compiled ? Jul 09 08:09:32 dr-xr-xr-x for /dev/gadget and -rw------- for everything inside Jul 09 08:09:42 all belonging root:root, me running qemu as root Jul 09 08:10:23 well, what modules could be missing? usbnet, gadgetfs and dummy_hcd are loaded Jul 09 08:10:57 CDC ? Jul 09 08:13:16 u mean cdc_ether? Jul 09 08:14:29 Yep Jul 09 08:14:44 modprobed it, but did not change anything when retrying the gadget connection... Jul 09 08:14:57 Yep, sorry, I'm ill and just trying ;-) Jul 09 08:15:14 It worked without doing anything special for me so I don't really know :-) Jul 09 08:15:56 hmm... Jul 09 08:17:12 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.dev * r7d41875bd6bd 10/packages/efl1/edbus_cvs.bb: [efl] Remove entry edbus_edbus in PACKAGES of edbus_cvs.bb Jul 09 08:17:58 host side looks ok to me - "can't set config #1, error -110" seems to be a timeout which means neo side is not responding correctly Jul 09 08:18:26 so what can i do against Jul 09 08:18:29 gadget_read: event error: 22 Jul 09 08:18:30 gadget_ep_parse: failed to configure gadgetfs: -22 Jul 09 08:18:45 Which image are you using ? Jul 09 08:19:48 Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080430-om-gta01.rootfs Jul 09 08:19:58 the only one that works reliable for me Jul 09 08:20:10 all newer ones do not boot or crash after a while... Jul 09 08:20:20 qtopia-x11 ones are even worse : ( Jul 09 08:21:02 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r0ed8bf5e7976 10/packages/efl1/edbus_cvs.bb: [efl] Remove entry edbus_edbus in PACKAGES of edbus_cvs.bb Jul 09 08:21:33 Weird, I used devel and FSO and FSO has been running for two days without a problem (under qemu of course) Jul 09 08:24:25 hmm, which FSO image exactly? Jul 09 08:24:53 perhaps i stopped trying after a lot of those images not even booted into X Jul 09 08:25:05 they spammed the screen with "now go fix your code" msgs... Jul 09 08:27:28 richie23: do you use mokomakefile ? Jul 09 08:29:10 hi there Jul 09 08:29:13 hi Jul 09 08:40:16 how is the battery on the gta02v6? Jul 09 08:43:56 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r8d4ef5dd950f 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [splinter] Bump up the reversion of Splinter to 462 Jul 09 08:48:29 beni_, the PM is still in the early stages Jul 09 08:48:35 as I have understood so far Jul 09 08:51:29 Ainulindale: for qemu i am using the "qemu-only" approach as described on the qemu page in the wiki - i have tried mokomakefile for compiling my own images Jul 09 08:53:21 ahven: what is PM? Jul 09 08:53:28 power-management? Jul 09 08:53:29 power management Jul 09 08:53:31 :d Jul 09 08:53:33 :D Jul 09 08:53:56 i heard that too, but im interested in how long it lasts now, in this early stage, and what is target Jul 09 08:54:03 unfortunately not one single try worked up to the end running mokomakefile compiling devel or qtopia image... either downloads failed and where not possible to resume or complilation failed : ( Jul 09 09:00:00 richie23: what you should do Jul 09 09:00:05 richie23: make flash-qemu-official Jul 09 09:00:08 then make run-qemu Jul 09 09:00:17 With the correct git branches Jul 09 09:00:30 (org.openembedded.dev for OM, and org.openembedded.asu.dev for ASU) Jul 09 09:01:42 ~battery Jul 09 09:01:44 it has been said that battery is made by Danionics http://www.danionics.com/products/icphh02.asp, or at http://www.handhelds.org/handhelds-faq/questions.html#AEN744 Jul 09 09:01:51 ~pm Jul 09 09:01:53 rumour has it, pm is project manager, or private message, or perl mongers, or pathetic moron: when you see someone say pm, they're asking if you think that they're a pathetic moron, or something you don't do without asking permission Jul 09 09:01:56 richie23: and check that you have -usb -usbgadget on your qemu parameters Jul 09 09:02:21 richie23: I just did that, booted, type in usb_add gadget:1 on qemu, and it worked Jul 09 09:02:36 meh; beni, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_%28GTA02%29_Battery Jul 09 09:04:07 Hmm... this is likely not the first time someone's got this, and it's likely my own fault, but: i just tried following the Boot from sd card instructions, and ended up with being told: Jul 09 09:04:28 Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(179,2) Jul 09 09:04:57 Anyone got an idea what i've ballsed up on there? Jul 09 09:05:51 kernel support for the root media is missing Jul 09 09:07:10 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080709/uImage-om-gta02-latest.bin <-- i'm using this uImage.bin, if that helps :) Jul 09 09:08:06 Ainulindale: thanks for your testing - i'll try and report back Jul 09 09:09:33 That's from NOR, from NAND i get a little bit further (lots of scrolley infos) and then i get a kernel panic again... Jul 09 09:10:34 Ainulindale: org.openembedded? default is org.openmoko - does that make a difference? Jul 09 09:11:21 richie23: Errr I heavily modified my makefile so just check on the wiki :-) Jul 09 09:11:48 (it's supposed to be openmoko) Jul 09 09:12:27 "Step 5 Select the boot from SD from menu (with correct u-boot_env content)" confuses me somewhat... What is the correct u-boot_env content? Jul 09 09:14:55 k, thx Jul 09 09:15:31 Does someone know how to mount the filesystem ? Jul 09 09:15:48 I have the correct modules but I can't mount it Jul 09 09:15:57 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r447d330b46c0 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-qtopia-x11.bb: [qtopia] Remove the callforwarding and phonesettings application from the image Jul 09 09:15:57 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r855eddf290f3 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade Qtopia to a version with the massive painting changes Jul 09 09:15:57 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * rf4bc2d53be54 10/packages/efl1/edbus_cvs.bb: [edbus Bump the PR after raster's change Jul 09 09:16:00 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * rf965ff25753d 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade Qtopia to get the callscreen/theme improvements Jul 09 09:16:03 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.dev * rfb03ea2942c7 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcdates.inc: update efl to latest to get etk drag+hold changes etc. Jul 09 09:16:08 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r9b00b07a6dce 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum of elfutils Jul 09 09:16:11 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r8d487b0c5926 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add prelink checksum for the normal mirror Jul 09 09:16:14 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r8b415c2e4a4d 10/packages/python/python-pyxdg_0.15.bb: [python] Add pyxdg to use fdo specs from python Jul 09 09:16:19 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * raf08d7a76b6a 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for pyxdg, matches the debian source Jul 09 09:16:22 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.dev * r3ffaf2d12a58 10/conf/distro/include/ (sane-srcdates.inc sane-srcrevs.inc): update efl and illume dates/rev to update to gsm "no signal" mode and Jul 09 09:16:25 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.dev * r6707a96cb440 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [assassin] Bump up the reversion of assassin to 174. Jul 09 09:16:30 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.dev * r1b6fe164bc69 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: up to illume rev with any_mod for bindings. Jul 09 09:16:33 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.dev * r92ca0be67f51 10/packages/openmoko-projects/assassin_svn.bb: [Assassin] Add curl to assassin's depends. Jul 09 09:16:36 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * rf4c0ba94694b 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [srcrev/exposure] Upgrade exposure to have the xdg changes Jul 09 09:16:41 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.dev * r67efe06a5eff 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: rev illume to 1 second after blank for suspend Jul 09 09:16:44 openmoko: 03graeme 07org.openmoko.dev * r142459fe0c87 10/packages/efl1/edbus_cvs.bb: Merge branch 'org.openmoko.dev' of git+ssh://git@git.openmoko.org/var/cache/git/openmoko into org.openmoko.dev Jul 09 09:25:23 hi can anyone tell me why am i getting a JFFS2 warning in Qemu under Ubuntu? how long will it take to start qemu? Jul 09 09:25:34 i'm on Gutsy Jul 09 09:27:58 newb: what warning? Jul 09 09:28:03 newb: what machine? Jul 09 09:28:25 i'm getting a JFFS2 notice: check_node_data: wrong CRC in data node at 0x Jul 09 09:28:26 and Jul 09 09:28:49 ok, looks wrong Jul 09 09:29:51 JFFS2 warning: jffs2_do_read_inode_internal: Truncating ino #1118 to 12158 16 bytes failed because it had 1077248 bytes to start with! Jul 09 09:30:18 lindi- i'm on a Core2Duo 1.4ghz (UPC) with 2GB Ram Jul 09 09:30:41 lindi- solutions/suggestions? :) Jul 09 09:30:57 are the rumors true that the internal GPS antenna is not good enough for production use? i heard that gps only works good with an external antenna Jul 09 09:31:30 beni_: it can be used outdoors if you feed it with almanac data Jul 09 09:32:02 beni_ put in ur own antenna :) take apart the damn thing Jul 09 09:32:28 i heard the internal antenna is on the chip, good luck Jul 09 09:34:03 lindi- any solutions? on my shell i get these messages s3c_mmci_writew: Bad register 0x38 Jul 09 09:36:51 what do I might have to pay for such an external gps antenna? Jul 09 09:38:16 lindi-: :( Jul 09 09:38:53 lindi: actually i got a # prompt on the emulator Jul 09 09:38:59 after which this message appeared Jul 09 09:39:02 I have some problems using the internal gps of the freerunner. How can i test if it's really working properly and is searching for satelites? Jul 09 09:39:42 KenSentMe: theres a agps test program Jul 09 09:39:47 Hmmm, how can I chroot to the neo in order to change the root password ? Jul 09 09:39:54 (with qemu) Jul 09 09:40:25 Ainulindale: cant you ssh to the qemuneo and passwd there? Jul 09 09:40:44 If I could ssh I would know the password :-) Jul 09 09:41:12 tried none? Jul 09 09:41:18 you can enter anything at the prompt, as long as theres none set it will work Jul 09 09:41:35 Tried none, yep Jul 09 09:41:49 and it doesnt let you in? Jul 09 09:41:58 Tanuva: i get a Jffs2 notice and warning Jul 09 09:42:04 how do i enter anything on the prompt? Jul 09 09:42:11 it doesn't take any keyboard i/p from me Jul 09 09:42:18 I dont know Jul 09 09:43:02 I'm getting CRC warnings Jul 09 09:43:07 Tanuva, you mean the openmoko agps ui? I installed that one, but i havent figured out how to really use it. Jul 09 09:43:52 KenSentMe: afaik: press the "power on" button on the lower left, then let it search... I havent had any fix yet, but I only tried indoor... Jul 09 09:44:22 Tanuva, i tried that, but havent had a fix either, and i used it outdoor Jul 09 09:44:41 KenSentMe: you have gpsd installed and set /etc/defaults/gpsd to /dev/ttySAC1? Jul 09 09:44:48 Tanuva, yes Jul 09 09:45:02 How am I supposed to access a tty on qemu ? Jul 09 09:45:15 hm. might be this antenna issue, getting a non-assisted fix without external antenna seems to be quite hard Jul 09 09:45:55 (and I dont have figured out how to "assist" the gps chip/how to download this almanac thing..) Jul 09 09:47:48 basically stationary outside in a clearish place upright is the way to go if you're having problems, and if after half an hour or so of that you still don't have anything, it's serious ;/ Jul 09 09:47:54 KenSentMe: You need really good reception and lots of patience, 15-30mins often Jul 09 09:48:45 Ok, lets try again then Jul 09 09:48:48 so I really need to get an external antenna... :/ Jul 09 09:49:05 from where can we get an external antenna? Jul 09 09:49:17 wow, lots of ppl here... hello everyone Jul 09 09:49:17 amazon? Jul 09 09:49:17 Well, I've been playing with the gps for about a 5 days now since i got my neo. To get at First Fix you definitively need to power up the gps outdoors in a clear area with plenty of visible airspace. Jul 09 09:49:19 heh, neo1973 gets a signal within 5 minutes Jul 09 09:49:24 outside Jul 09 09:49:29 the initial fix time was better on the 1973, yes Jul 09 09:49:33 Tanuva: have a look at the community ML thread "GPS", there's instructions there on how to build a script that assists the gps with only the current time and a rough guess of position. I used a pos and accuracy that covers southern norway (365km radius) and it's reasonably quick at getting a fix now Jul 09 09:49:42 well, at least going by the reports. I don't have an FR yet to try. Jul 09 09:49:51 newb: you need a gps antenna with a MMCX connector Jul 09 09:50:16 and without an external antenna Jul 09 09:50:18 bobkare: I read that... Then I got to have a serious look at it :) Jul 09 09:50:25 unassisted the gps is worthless, but using software it should be possible to help it enough that it works pretty well Jul 09 09:50:57 i haven't started looking at the scripts to download almanac data to it, my guess is that will help even more Jul 09 09:51:17 Anyhow, I'm more "worried" that my GPS didn't manage to track it's location while driving yesterday. I had it on the dashboard and I _know_ I had a FFIX before starting to drive.. :/ Jul 09 09:51:23 bobkare, well it certainly _should_ Jul 09 09:52:27 if we can get ephermis data too we should get phenomenal performance Jul 09 09:52:44 what's this almanac and ephermis? Jul 09 09:53:02 data about satellite orbits and stuff Jul 09 09:53:36 IXian-Probe, a symtom of the same problem (suboptimal sensitivity), I'm sure. Jul 09 09:53:41 almanac is rougher and valid for longer, ephermis is smaller corrections but data is only valid for 4 hours Jul 09 09:54:26 so I wont have to download the data more than once a day... sounds usable. Jul 09 09:54:31 mjr: mhm Jul 09 09:55:18 ephermis takes just 30secs to download from the gps sats, so it's not that critical to use assist for it Jul 09 09:55:36 bobkare, if you get good enough reception :/ Jul 09 09:55:54 need to reboot... Jul 09 09:58:12 mjr: good point. though I've found the gps works really well when it's gotten a fix. it's downloading all the data that's really problematic Jul 09 09:58:42 well, it's okay for me even if I had to use downloaded ephemeris all the time Jul 09 10:00:14 im trying to build a gtk based application using bitbake method, i have specified the path ( common/linked-list) correctly still it is giving linking error. the error is " arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-gcc: .: linker input file unused because linking not done. make[2]: *** No rule to make target `common/linked-list.c', needed by `linked-list.o'. Stop. ". Jul 09 10:02:45 can anyone help me in solving this error?? Jul 09 10:03:51 yay! Jul 09 10:04:08 I just stood on the balcony for some time holding the neo upright in front of me - TTFF: 200sec! Jul 09 10:04:17 without assitance, internal antenna Jul 09 10:05:23 that sounds a bit more like it... Jul 09 10:05:30 Tanuva: mhm, that's what I do now ^_^ But it has problems keeping the fix when I go in again.. :/ Jul 09 10:05:48 IXian-Probe, you shouldn't really expect gps to hold a fix inside Jul 09 10:06:12 yep, its maintaining the fix for some time if its upright, but the moment I put it down on my desk, the fix was lost Jul 09 10:06:37 the signal just isn't very strong Jul 09 10:07:04 I had nearly 40db outside Jul 09 10:11:38 * Tanuva hates his via-chipset. Jul 09 10:13:54 hm.. seems the FR runs about 10 hrs without suspend Jul 09 10:14:58 mjr: I know ;) Jul 09 10:15:54 mjr: but I had my hopes.. oh well.. Let's break out those fractal antennas ;) Jul 09 10:16:09 hmm, I'm curious about wether the onboard GPS antenna is a fractal ceramic or not.. Jul 09 10:22:26 * Tanuva hopes that fso is usable for app development soon Jul 09 10:24:31 Hmm... VFS: Cannot open root device "mmcblk0p2" or unknown-block(179.2) Jul 09 10:24:55 and then it tells me to append a correct root= boot option, listing the available partitions... one of which is mmcblk0p2 Jul 09 10:28:02 lindi-: even building the local qemu fails Jul 09 10:28:03 :( Jul 09 10:28:56 where was the community update mail from sean about the gps problem? it mentioned sending an email to wolfgang (?) with some data Jul 09 10:29:11 Hmm... looking a bit further up, i get some CRCFAIL lines too... Jul 09 10:29:32 CRCFAIL 0x1a3f Jul 09 10:30:06 trupheenix: do you get some meaningful error message? Jul 09 10:30:13 six of those, with a "Current Request Command:5, ARG:0x00000000 flags: 0x0008" after every second Jul 09 10:31:58 balrog-kln: ls: /home/abhi/moko/build/qemu/uImage-2.6.*-om-gta01.bin: No such file or directory Jul 09 10:31:59 basename: missing operand Jul 09 10:31:59 Try `basename --help' for more information. Jul 09 10:31:59 make: *** [flash-qemu-local] Error 255 Jul 09 10:33:09 ok, then qemu itself probably builds fine Jul 09 10:33:51 balrog-k1n: then how do i run the local qemu? do make run-qemu? Jul 09 10:34:22 trupheenix: you need to ask someone with MokoMakefile skills or look at the makefile Jul 09 10:34:45 balrog-k1n: ah... MokoMakefile is UNOFFICIAL :) Jul 09 10:35:47 balrog-k1n: i did a make qemu. then it boots up but it stalls with a JFFS2 notice and warning. Jul 09 10:38:32 Hmm... reading a touch on that Boot from sd card thing again - do you really need a debug board to be able to do that? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Boot_from_sd_card#NOR_in_GTA02_history Jul 09 10:41:29 trupheenix: that is what would happen if there was no rootfs (because it's not flashed for example) Jul 09 10:41:48 whats up with Freerunner Gps ? Jul 09 10:41:50 * balrog-k1n sends greets from GUADEC btw Jul 09 10:42:07 i have the Freerunner for 5 Day's but not fix point Jul 09 10:42:11 is this a bug ? Jul 09 10:42:31 balrog-kln: how do i resolve this and get it working? Jul 09 10:43:00 i dont know Jul 09 10:43:13 trupheenix: flash the rootfs.. and you need to ask somebody with MokoMakefile knowledege for that probably Jul 09 10:43:40 balrog-k1n: hmmmm.... Jul 09 10:43:51 ernst: there's a recent bugreport with the description line something like "gps gets no fix" Jul 09 10:44:13 i didn't read it though, just deleted the mail caus ei'm low on battery Jul 09 10:44:23 ernst: my gta02 gets the fix fine Jul 09 10:44:38 trupheenix: I had that same error with the basename Jul 09 10:44:43 hm who do you live ? Jul 09 10:45:00 ernst: Try standing outside in a clear area for 15-30 minutes holding the FR upright Jul 09 10:45:05 I made a symbolic link in openmoko/build/tmp/deploy/glibc/images Jul 09 10:45:17 neo1973 -> om-gta01 Jul 09 10:45:38 there have been numerous reports of gta02 GPS failures, no-one is quite sure what is happening Jul 09 10:46:00 ernst: where? Jul 09 10:46:11 yes Jul 09 10:46:31 :) my english sorry Jul 09 10:46:47 ernst: i live in poland, but it worked also in brazil, spain, turkey Jul 09 10:46:50 XorA: I think I'm getting a pretty good picture. Basically it's a combination of the antenna not being very sensitive and the fact that the chip doesn't have any memory for storing almanac and ephermis data so it completely resets when you power the gps chip down Jul 09 10:46:51 ernst: TangoGPS and GPSD on openmoko-devel is some of the reports of failure Jul 09 10:46:58 Wander_w: ah.... and how did u fix it? Jul 09 10:47:19 bobkare: but there seems to be per device differences :-( Jul 09 10:47:24 bobkare: and it seems that the antennae are not equally sensitive but vary Jul 09 10:47:30 * XorA will have to try his two FR's out Jul 09 10:47:42 can i use a old image to have a fix ? Jul 09 10:47:43 Wander_w: actually the # prompt comes after it says loading root VFS. then after a few seconds i get these JFFS2 warnings Jul 09 10:47:48 yes, so a combination Jul 09 10:47:57 ernst: got an external antenna? Jul 09 10:48:01 no Jul 09 10:48:05 In the community ML thread GPS there is a perl script that implements some agps-ish features that help a lot Jul 09 10:48:09 freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r662d71cc8628 10/ (conf/frameworkd.conf framework/frameworkd): Open log before importing controller Jul 09 10:48:14 ernst: the image shouldn't matter Jul 09 10:49:46 does asu also use gstreamer as audio backend? Jul 09 10:49:52 Does anybody know? Can you boot from SD on a Freerunner without needing to use a debug board to turn off NOR protection? Jul 09 10:49:59 are there issues with Openmoko development on Ubuntu Hardy? Jul 09 10:50:25 leinir: there were rumors about a bug in uboot, but its not definite afaik Jul 09 10:51:32 Right... there just doesn't seem to be much info on the error i get :) "Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(179,2)" Jul 09 10:51:46 trupheenix: like I said, I made a symbolic link Jul 09 11:00:09 Tanuva: Any idea who might know such things? :) Jul 09 11:01:07 FAQ: when will the next GSM900 phones be available? the GSM900 phones were already sold out 2 minutes after the shop opened, possibly earlier Jul 09 11:01:20 kW: from EU resellers Jul 09 11:01:32 kW: or wait 3 weeks or so Jul 09 11:02:52 is there a better way to reset the FR than to take out the battery? Jul 09 11:03:11 ecraven: press power button for 9 secs Jul 09 11:03:20 edistar: tried, did nothing Jul 09 11:03:27 ecraven: hm Jul 09 11:03:42 ecraven: ssh poweroff Jul 09 11:03:43 ? Jul 09 11:04:26 gives me a chance to note down my serial number Jul 09 11:04:31 edistar: EU resellers make me wait 3 weeks or so, too ;-) Jul 09 11:05:38 edistar: so is there a second batch of phones in production? Jul 09 11:05:52 kW: I assume, yes Jul 09 11:08:24 I hope that both supply and demand scale up to make openmoko a profitable company :-) Jul 09 11:10:15 i want to know how to set up a development environment for openmoko without using the MokoMakeFile Jul 09 11:10:29 also i want to build Openmoko QEMU without the Makefile Jul 09 11:11:19 trupheenix: yes Jul 09 11:11:31 trupheenix: use OE fuer dev env Jul 09 11:11:34 *for Jul 09 11:11:55 edistar: ok. does OE work on Ubuntu? Jul 09 11:12:45 trupheenix: yes Jul 09 11:13:31 edistar: any useful man pages u can point me to where it is explained how i can use oe with openmoko? PLEASE :) Jul 09 11:14:17 trupheenix: http://wiki.openembedded.net/index.php/Getting_Started Jul 09 11:14:43 After 1,5 hrs having the freerunner standing upright and outside i looked at the agps ui tool: Fixes: 0 good 5313 fail 5313 total :( Jul 09 11:15:03 Hmmmm how can I chroot on the image deployed on qemu, or change the root password ? (it's not empty) Jul 09 11:15:33 trupheenix: trupheenix http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/building-angstrom just change angstrom to openmoko or any other image you want Jul 09 11:16:32 edistar: ok :) thanks. also i wanted to know if MokoMakeFile is actually good. it took me 2 days to build the development image on my slow connection Jul 09 11:17:16 trupheenix: I don't like mokomakefile ;) it's a wrapper Jul 09 11:17:17 Hmmm in fact it seems I don't have a connection anymore Jul 09 11:17:19 for OE Jul 09 11:17:22 I think Jul 09 11:17:30 trupheenix: if you can use OE, do so Jul 09 11:17:48 trupheenix: you're sure the toolchain (cross-compiler and associated tools) alone isn't enough for whatever you're doing? Jul 09 11:18:46 yay for tracking numbers! om is shipped! Jul 09 11:20:25 Weiss: i want all standard packages like GTK+ precompiled for moko so that i don't have to do it everytime. i used to write programs for a device called amida www.amidasimputer.org. and i had a tough time because i had to manually cross compile all the packages for it. it wasn't on open embedded. neverthless, it was a precursor to devices like the openmoko. today the GTA02 has similar features to the amida. Jul 09 11:20:41 Weiss: amida means eternal light in Sanskrit Jul 09 11:21:36 Weiss: sorry it's amidasimputer.com not org Jul 09 11:25:22 nullpuppy: bad register might be just ok Jul 09 11:25:36 hmm, wrong nick Jul 09 11:25:50 anyone else get tracking number? Jul 09 11:26:20 Hmmm, impossible to access my image, either by ssh or by qemu... Jul 09 11:30:40 * rgl waves Jul 09 11:31:46 Nobody is able to tell me how am I supposed to figure why, whereas gadgetfs works and my system detects the emulated image, I'm totally unable to access anything on the image by ssh ? Jul 09 11:32:14 (no route to host, in fact) Jul 09 11:35:29 Can't see why I can't find FSO's image IP... Jul 09 11:37:29 Hey mickeyl if you're available... :-p Jul 09 11:38:14 does anyone know where the qtopia mediaplayer looks for media? Jul 09 11:38:58 I'm gonna hazard a guess that it looks *somewhere* on your Neo.... :P Jul 09 11:38:59 do you typically write gui applications for openmoko linux with qtopia on top? is it possible to write the qtopia application portable so that it could be used on e.g. android as well? Jul 09 11:39:41 nuclear_eclipse: Oh Im so dumb, you're genious :P Jul 09 11:40:09 trupheenix: just checking :) - that simputer thing looks quite interesting Jul 09 11:41:24 Weiss: yes it is. hopefully openmoko will have simputer s/w in the near future :). actually simputer is a concept to enable humans interact naturally with a computer. see www.simputer.org to find out what the scientists were thinking. Jul 09 11:43:18 Weiss: irony of it is. only u Europeans appreciate such devices. our very own Indian government failed to appreciate and give any kind of impetus to this device. it was never meant to be a commercial venture Jul 09 11:45:05 brundlefliege: Android uses a Java slang with an irregular Java API, so no go. Jul 09 11:45:25 trupheenix: interesting link.. is the amidas machine 'hackable'? Jul 09 11:45:48 Weiss: yes it is hackable if ur a linux geek :) Jul 09 11:46:17 Weiss: it runs a standard arm-linux distro with a modified X and a GUI called Alchemy. Jul 09 11:47:07 abraxa: oic! i didn't know that you couldn't do c++ applications on it. what a shame it seems they will lose this fight then (with java) Jul 09 11:47:21 * Weiss probably qualifies as a linux geek 8-| Jul 09 11:47:21 Weiss: but it's a little outdated on the s/w front unfortunately :( Jul 09 11:47:56 Weiss: it doesn't have a SSH. u need to telnet to it for example :) Jul 09 11:48:13 brundlefliege: Indeed. Simply because everything runs in the Android VM, preventing direct access to hardware. Screw openness. Jul 09 11:48:20 pffff Jul 09 11:48:32 amazing what a bummer! Jul 09 11:50:39 abraxa_:thanks for the insight Jul 09 11:50:51 abraxa_: that does not follow. Jul 09 11:50:55 people will slowly get it Jul 09 11:51:00 android is NOt aboutbeing open Jul 09 11:51:18 abraxa_: unless you are writing kernel drivers, you don't have direct access to the hardware anyway. Jul 09 11:51:32 abraxa_: it depends on the API of the VM. Jul 09 11:51:43 SpeedEvil: you mean because we use the system call abstraction? Jul 09 11:51:45 they blow the "open source" and "linux" trumpet horm Jul 09 11:51:45 for publicity Jul 09 11:51:45 but as such - it wont be more open than nokia's n8xx and n7xx Jul 09 11:51:45 if anything maybe less Jul 09 11:52:12 SpeedEvil: yes you do! root can do anything... with some well practiced mmap("/dev/mem"...) action Jul 09 11:52:34 and i i think from 2.6.25 interrupts can be exported to userspace now Jul 09 11:52:41 abraxa_: If it's flexible enough to let you do 'anything' and override system software, and access any hardware you like, then not having direct access to the hardware. Jul 09 11:52:46 though a small kernel module could do that for a userspace driver anyway Jul 09 11:53:00 abraxa_: If it's flexible enough to let you do 'anything' and override system software, and access any hardware you like, then not having direct access to the hardware and being in a VM isn't an isssue apart from speed Jul 09 11:53:49 With the VM being flexible enough to allow the user to pick what each program can do to others. Jul 09 11:54:27 A while since i asked it last, and people have woken up ;) What am i doing wrong when i try and boot from an SD prepared as shown on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Boot_from_sd_card#Create_Bootable_SD_Card_.28GTA02.29 and get told that "Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(179,2)" Jul 09 11:54:45 (and sorry for interrupting the ongoing discussion :) ) Jul 09 11:54:53 Consider the silly case of the freerunner running x86 openmoko under qemy. Jul 09 11:55:02 It's just as open. Jul 09 11:56:44 This is all happening on a Freerunner :) Jul 09 11:57:32 May I run any qt-app on the asu image or do I have to compile it against some special qtopia lib? Jul 09 11:58:42 leinir: you've got the filesystem you're using on SD built into the kernel? Jul 09 12:00:20 SpeedEvil: Well, since the uImage.bin i'm using is the one from http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080709/, i should hope so :) Jul 09 12:00:35 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080709/uImage-om-gta02-latest.bin <-- That one to be exact :) Jul 09 12:02:17 (I've never done this) does the kernel say something about mmc cards on boot? Jul 09 12:03:11 Hmm... i'll try and take a picture, see if there's any info that's escaping me :) Jul 09 12:06:05 oh, have you checked that sylinder 0 on the MMC isn't defect? Jul 09 12:06:38 because if so, it's unbootable. Jul 09 12:06:51 so is there an SMS app? Jul 09 12:07:48 Your best plan would be enlisting someone with a clue. Jul 09 12:07:48 Have you looked on the mailing lists and wiki? Jul 09 12:08:57 chillywilly: there is - in the default shipped image. Jul 09 12:09:17 ok, so is the wiki out of date then? Jul 09 12:09:40 The safe answer to that is always yes. Jul 09 12:09:40 or are you referring to the SMSTool? Jul 09 12:09:51 No. Jul 09 12:09:58 ok Jul 09 12:10:03 With the shipped image you can make calls and do SMS. Jul 09 12:10:16 Not very reliably, but you can. Jul 09 12:10:45 calling and SMS is unreliable? Jul 09 12:11:21 except on fso... Jul 09 12:11:29 too many images ;) Jul 09 12:11:39 what image is actually shipped then? Jul 09 12:11:47 asu? Jul 09 12:12:07 2007.2 I guess Jul 09 12:12:13 i saw that steven said that ASU is alpha stage Jul 09 12:12:35 asu is... asu Jul 09 12:12:40 ok Jul 09 12:12:43 i dont know how to describe it Jul 09 12:12:53 chillywilly: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ Jul 09 12:13:02 My bootup error: http://leinir.dk/temp/gallery/pictures/boot-error.jpg Jul 09 12:13:13 is there an image that is actually the future direction? Jul 09 12:13:41 IXian-Probe: How'd i check that? Jul 09 12:13:42 fso seems to be the far future, asu the nearer Jul 09 12:14:33 ok, thanks for the info Jul 09 12:14:36 leinir: i see your problem. your freerunner is suffering from a babylon 5 distortion field Jul 09 12:14:56 leinir: we could get your fingerprint from that pic... Jul 09 12:15:00 raster: Yeah, i hear that causes much disturbance in local gateways ;) Jul 09 12:15:35 Tuju: Well yes, and i've nothing that uses biometry ;) Jul 09 12:16:17 Any truth in the GPS failures? Jul 09 12:17:19 MrShleee: at least three people have come in here after following sane debugging steps not gotten a signal. Jul 09 12:17:56 MrShleee: as far as I know, none yet have tried reseating the antenna internally, or external antennas. Jul 09 12:18:09 leinir: I'm not sure. Try repartition the MMC with fdisk or cfdisk. create two partitions where the first partition is 1 cylinder large, and the second whatever size you need. Save the partitiontable and then delete the first partition and resave. Jul 09 12:18:32 IXian-Probe: Right, i'll give that one a shot, thanks :) Jul 09 12:18:51 MrShleee: depends. Most of us have unreasonable expectations i suspect ^_^ Jul 09 12:19:20 MrShleee: but hw related problems can't be ruled out. Jul 09 12:20:02 i've never seen my fr's get a gps fix Jul 09 12:20:10 leinir: then format the partion and store som data on it.. and run fsck Jul 09 12:20:30 Weiss: i can't figure out why the QeMU doesn't work for me. it just stalls halfway with a jffs2 error. any suggestions? Jul 09 12:20:35 raster: gone outdoors and lett it "roast" in the sun for about 30 minuttes? Jul 09 12:21:05 raster: I had one after 200secs few hours ago Jul 09 12:21:12 raster: there are some sw problems with gpsd btw.. so I've had gpsd mysteriously die on me while using tangogps Jul 09 12:22:02 wait Jul 09 12:22:04 IXian-Probe: no. as i'm always tethered with a usb cable tomy laptopfor hacking Jul 09 12:22:06 what am i hearing? Jul 09 12:22:12 the GPS isn't good ? :( Jul 09 12:22:13 hey guys .. is it still required to 'fix links' if you use opkg to install at a destination other than / ? Jul 09 12:22:16 raster: use the agps-ui to test it, disable gpsd and any other gps software while you do. I suspect gps-sight isn't that friendly with gpsd/agps-ui either. Jul 09 12:22:22 i just ordered a GTA02 today :( Jul 09 12:22:28 is there some 'fix link' tool, i seem to remember there is, but i forgot what its called .. Jul 09 12:23:01 trupheenix: now now, don't make a molehill into a mountain. Don't get cold feet, after all it might just be user-related or sw related. Jul 09 12:23:36 the gps thing makes me sad i hope it is software not hardware Jul 09 12:24:12 nezticle: brund: unlikely Jul 09 12:24:13 IXian-Probe: hmmm... Jul 09 12:24:20 I just installed gcc/g++ on my neo - but where do they get installed? they dont seem to be in the $PATH... Jul 09 12:24:39 trupheenix: and the A- in AGPS makes it possible to use sofware tricks to help getting a fix. there has been greatly improvments in ffix just by "informing" the gps chipset on what hemisphere your currently on ;) Jul 09 12:24:39 SpeedEvil: ok, depending on how many units are in the field. Hopefully some production errors at worst. Jul 09 12:24:51 IXian-Probe: brunde: the problem is that several people have foudn thtat cat /dev/ttySAC1 results in output from the GPS, but no valid fix. Jul 09 12:25:14 fantastic :) so i get a black box with a gps chipset which i need to program. EXACTLY what I wanted :) Jul 09 12:25:21 Tanuva: Tanuva usr/bin/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-gcc Jul 09 12:25:24 SpeedEvil: yeah, I've done the cat /dev/ttySAC1 myself. The output _is_ garbage until a FFIX has been achieved. Jul 09 12:25:25 Tanuva: /usr/bin/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-gcc Jul 09 12:25:44 anyone: does opkg -d card require me to 'fix links'? Jul 09 12:25:50 IXian-Probe: yes - but it's not garbage in the sense that it could be corrupt Jul 09 12:26:09 trupheenix: but, if it's a hw related problem we as a community just have to start looking into how to DIY a fractal GPS antenna ;) Jul 09 12:26:11 IXian-Probe: it's simply odd output from the chip, and is easy to see it's not of itself corrupt. Jul 09 12:26:28 torpor: its not there... Jul 09 12:26:28 IXian-Probe: as all of the chips do that, even the working ones. Jul 09 12:26:58 SpeedEvil: ahh, I understand. I stand corrected, corrupted data -- not garbage data. Jul 09 12:26:59 If it's a hardware problem, you return the phone before the warranty runs out IMO. Jul 09 12:27:21 anyone know where to get gvsig from? Jul 09 12:27:23 SpeedEvil: hmm.. 10 Days left on my warranty ^_^ Jul 09 12:28:20 Hmpf, dbus is complaining about the X11 support Jul 09 12:28:47 IXian-Probe: strange there would be a h/w problem with the GPS because the 1973 also had a GPS on it and apparently it did work. so it would b terrible if the GPS isn't working correctly on this one. Jul 09 12:29:05 bus = dbus.SessionBus() Jul 09 12:29:09 Seems it doesn't like that Jul 09 12:29:26 true: unfortunately, the GPS has completely changed. Jul 09 12:29:31 tru: Jul 09 12:29:39 gPS blows on the neo1973 .. it takes forever to get a fix. that said though, i got my first log file from tangogps today during the drive to work. Jul 09 12:29:50 unfortunately - if there was an open-source driver for the chipset that is. Jul 09 12:30:13 yo speedy Jul 09 12:30:19 Meh. Jul 09 12:30:26 Have you tried a USB camera with the phone yet? Jul 09 12:30:52 Daviey: No. Jul 09 12:30:58 Hrm, alright. Jul 09 12:31:11 I don't ATM have a FR. Jul 09 12:31:26 And haven't tried it on the neo. Jul 09 12:31:36 Okay :) Jul 09 12:31:50 I've been concentrating on designing a BT cam :) Jul 09 12:31:57 Ah! Jul 09 12:32:10 Would the tx rate suck though? Jul 09 12:32:15 wouldn't Jul 09 12:33:08 trupheenix: can't help much with qemu i'm afraid - i've only played with it a little Jul 09 12:33:33 trupheenix: r.e. GPS, take a look at the 'GPS' thread on OM-Community - there's a lot of different results. some people have it working really well, others have problems Jul 09 12:33:36 trupheenix: not the same gps chipset Jul 09 12:34:15 SpeedEvil: the hammerhead chipset (neo1973) was a proprietary hack if I remember correctly. Jul 09 12:44:45 Speedevil, I am interested to see how well your camera works out :) Jul 09 12:46:28 Weiss: is Qemu important at all? i mean as long as i can flash the device it's fine right? Jul 09 12:47:20 qemu is rather more convenient Jul 09 12:47:20 damnit... still broken... Jul 09 12:47:37 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r7074dd2dd340 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [assassin] Bump up the reversion of assassin to 193 Jul 09 12:47:40 hoi Wander :] Jul 09 12:48:12 reversion? Jul 09 12:48:55 That makes no sense. Jul 09 12:49:35 revision is ment Jul 09 12:49:43 Wander_w: but i can't figure out why it's not working for me :( Jul 09 12:49:43 Yeah, that's what I thought :p Jul 09 12:50:00 * Dave por Wander_w Jul 09 12:50:19 ecraven! Jul 09 12:50:25 * Dave pesters ecraven Jul 09 12:51:28 Dave: hey ;) Jul 09 12:51:30 what's up? Jul 09 12:51:40 Yeah, what's goning on? :D Jul 09 12:51:49 So I was playing with the python script the other day Jul 09 12:51:52 thinking about replacing the entire ui ;) i don't like it too much Jul 09 12:51:56 only some minor developments there Jul 09 12:51:58 Yeah :D Jul 09 12:52:00 Agreed :] Jul 09 12:52:10 Then I'd like to package it :) Jul 09 12:52:11 we need something fast Jul 09 12:52:17 Ideally. Jul 09 12:52:36 ecraven, Ncurses is fast Jul 09 12:52:43 asu uses gstreamer like the gtk stack, doesnt it? Jul 09 12:52:47 haha Jul 09 12:52:49 HauDyrArb: bit more graphics would be nice Jul 09 12:53:03 ok Jul 09 12:53:04 actual gui, haudryab :P Jul 09 12:54:20 Let's have at it, Mr. Craven! Jul 09 12:54:22 i'd like something with exit buttons, i hate the way you can't stop applications Jul 09 12:54:32 Dave: aye, but i have no idea how things work, or how to change anything.. Jul 09 12:54:38 Oh ~_~ Jul 09 12:54:44 You mean, other than the interface? :P Jul 09 12:55:07 Alright maybe I'll look into that, I have a better understanding, I believe, of how the reads were happening from the devices, etc. Jul 09 12:55:18 I honestly had less of a clue about the gui :D Jul 09 12:55:25 go team! Jul 09 12:55:37 have you succeeded in recompiling neod? Jul 09 12:55:53 no Jul 09 12:56:16 but I succeeded in setting it up the bomb, yesterday :D Jul 09 12:56:32 haha ecraven, have you ever tried killing neod -9 when it's backgrounded? Jul 09 12:56:37 when is it gonna kaboom? :) Jul 09 12:56:43 hilarious panic screen :D Jul 09 12:56:52 SEKRET FUNNIEZ Jul 09 12:56:57 *g* Jul 09 12:57:07 though lulz might be more appropriate, though yes, it was mildly museful Jul 09 12:57:07 sounds like rm -rf /* Jul 09 12:57:15 IXian-Probe: yes - but in principle, it could have had an open-source driver. Jul 09 12:57:19 though all recovery efforts failed and the device had to be rebooted :D Jul 09 12:57:24 Tanuva, nah Jul 09 12:57:33 Reboot and it's fine :P Jul 09 12:57:42 though yeah not with my failed compilation though ;) Jul 09 12:57:56 heeh Jul 09 12:58:06 IXian-Probe: there was a project to reverse engineer it, which was showing some results. Jul 09 12:58:20 IXian-Probe: But, it stalled when the new GPS chip choice was announced. Jul 09 12:58:35 * Dave knuffelt leinir Jul 09 12:58:49 Dave: no, i just killed it, that brought down the x server Jul 09 12:58:52 Meep! :) Jul 09 12:58:55 right Jul 09 12:58:59 leinir :) Jul 09 12:59:08 ecraven, did you see the funny message though? Jul 09 12:59:24 Dave: german? :D Jul 09 12:59:44 Tanuva: dutch? :D Jul 09 13:00:08 Too many germans in here ~_~ Jul 09 13:00:14 ah, sounds quite similar... :) Jul 09 13:00:25 ja Jul 09 13:00:37 not really :P Jul 09 13:01:08 Dave: no, i didn't look very closely Jul 09 13:01:37 ow Dave is spamming the channel again Jul 09 13:02:24 :( Jul 09 13:02:32 Negatory! Jul 09 13:02:38 heh Jul 09 13:03:12 flooding it then :P Jul 09 13:03:39 IXian-Probe: i'm told there are no errors on the card anywhere... Jul 09 13:04:03 leinir: then it probably isn't mmc card failure. sorry Jul 09 13:04:42 *nods* i'm sure i'm just missing something somewhere, but... i don't see what Jul 09 13:05:18 Note your problem in a seperate page. Jul 09 13:05:23 err o Jul 09 13:05:25 What's wrong Leinir? Jul 09 13:05:28 ont he booting from SD page Jul 09 13:05:31 ecraven, I'm going over the script now Jul 09 13:05:36 In a new section. Jul 09 13:05:55 Dave: i can't boot my freerunner from SD, i get http://leinir.dk/temp/gallery/pictures/boot-error.jpg Jul 09 13:06:03 Why should it scan for APs, isn't that by far what takes it the longest to start? *hiss* Jul 09 13:06:11 leinir, rut roh Jul 09 13:06:18 Dave: Indeed Jul 09 13:06:23 SpeedEvil: How d'ya mean? :) Jul 09 13:06:29 someone's been naughty :p Jul 09 13:07:01 leinir: edit the booting from SD, detailing your woes. Jul 09 13:07:16 *nods* Right :) Jul 09 13:07:34 Now, my real problem is that i don't quite understand the instructions... Jul 09 13:07:52 Creating the bootable SD is simple enough, as is getting it to boot from both NAND and NOR Jul 09 13:07:54 unknown blocks! Jul 09 13:07:56 But... Jul 09 13:08:11 Dave: to do what? Jul 09 13:08:26 Every other bit of information on that page goes directly over my head Jul 09 13:08:29 Ecraven, what? Jul 09 13:08:43 i don't get unknown blocks any longer, it just boots from the internal drive, even though i tell it to boot from the ssd Jul 09 13:08:44 leinir, *whoosh*? :) Jul 09 13:08:51 Dave: what are you looking at? which script? Jul 09 13:08:54 ecraven: shitty :p Jul 09 13:08:59 Dave: Indeed Jul 09 13:09:00 ecraven, gta02.py :P Jul 09 13:09:04 Dave: ;) Jul 09 13:09:14 short qemu question: how to launch the "qemu monitor"? Jul 09 13:10:24 the wiki says about qemu with usb gadget: "the qemu monitor commands "info usbslave" and "usb_add gadget" will be useful." Jul 09 13:10:33 but how can i get the qemu monitor? Jul 09 13:10:45 richie23: um... I think it's alt-F2 or Alt-2 or something Jul 09 13:10:47 openmoko/qemu-gadget.sh does not work with mokomakefile qemu Jul 09 13:11:06 whee, I've made an open-source vibrator :P Jul 09 13:11:11 why is this so amazing? Jul 09 13:11:12 (when you have qemu running) Jul 09 13:11:18 Can i download ASU sources from somewhere? Jul 09 13:11:31 musse, Yes. Jul 09 13:12:05 I'm openmoko newbie ,how to ssh my openmoko? Jul 09 13:12:10 hmm, alt-f2 is "run application" and alt-2 does nothing in qemu X window and changes terminal tab in gnome terminal ; ) Jul 09 13:12:39 i didn't find them from the http://svn.openmoko.org/. Jul 09 13:12:46 Chandle, see USB_Networking on the Openmoko.org wiki. Jul 09 13:12:48 hm.. the mokomakefile bails on localedef hu_HU Jul 09 13:12:55 heehee, huhu Jul 09 13:13:00 ah, alt-ctrl-2 works, thx Jul 09 13:13:45 richie23: ah yes... that is even in the manual file :) Jul 09 13:13:47 Dave: thx Jul 09 13:13:57 :] Jul 09 13:14:01 So where could i find them? Jul 09 13:14:13 dwaze ~_~ Jul 09 13:14:17 usb gadget is still not working though : ( Jul 09 13:14:37 gadget_read: event error: 22 Jul 09 13:14:37 gadget_read: read error Jul 09 13:14:37 s3c_udc_handle_packet: EP0 overrun Jul 09 13:14:37 gadget_read: unhandled event: 50333312 Jul 09 13:14:37 gadget_read: event error: 51 Jul 09 13:15:26 * Dave wants to install cowpanic on his freerunner. Jul 09 13:15:29 i am using mokomakefile with flash-qemu-official and added -usbgadget to the qemu line Jul 09 13:16:05 musse: use mokomakefile Jul 09 13:16:10 musse: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Mokomakefile Jul 09 13:16:22 "If you want to make the ASU, at this point you need to edit your Makefile. Change:" Jul 09 13:16:44 OM_GIT_BRANCH := org.openmoko.dev to say: OM_GIT_BRANCH := org.openmoko.asu.dev Jul 09 13:17:27 ty! Jul 09 13:17:31 btw @mokomakefile: i have not changed anything but left OM_GIT_BRANCH := org.openmoko.dev - still i get an qtopia image when running "download-images"... Jul 09 13:17:32 np! Jul 09 13:17:55 ^_^ Jul 09 13:19:30 Ainulindale: any further hints on usb gadget support for qemu? i get the same errors when using mokomakefile as before : ( Jul 09 13:22:37 hehe, running out of harddisk space explains why my build process failed.. Jul 09 13:22:54 ecraven: hmm... yeah, that may be a problem :P Jul 09 13:23:26 je zuigt! :P Jul 09 13:23:37 Has anyone who ordered on the 3rd from the store received their FR yet? :) Jul 09 13:24:35 hm.. why does libgsmd-tool --help sl segfault? Jul 09 13:24:44 :x Jul 09 13:24:47 gmaxwell: I had to order in april to get mine :-p Jul 09 13:25:21 hehe My GTA01 took months too.. alas. Jul 09 13:25:53 ecraven: because you ran out of discspace? Jul 09 13:26:35 Wander_w: unrelated, i run that on the phone. i compile on my host machine Jul 09 13:27:04 ecraven: yeah, but what you compiled on your host machine is what you run on your phone right? Jul 09 13:27:05 i am waiting for my freerunner, too - i hoped i could test with qemu, but every attempt to get any kind of network between host and qemu-neo failed Jul 09 13:27:29 hopefully the real device works better than qemu which looks quite bad to me : ( Jul 09 13:28:03 richie23: networking with qemu can be a bit tricky, but it does work when you follow the stuff on the wiki Jul 09 13:28:55 i tried both approaches (that what the qemu page in the wiki says and mokomakefile) and both fail with the following Jul 09 13:28:58 gadget_read: event error: 22 Jul 09 13:28:58 gadget_read: read error Jul 09 13:28:58 s3c_udc_handle_packet: EP0 overrun Jul 09 13:28:58 gadget_read: unhandled event: 50333312 Jul 09 13:28:58 gadget_read: event error: 51 Jul 09 13:29:19 images Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080430-om-gta01.rootfs and Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080625-om-gta01.rootfs Jul 09 13:29:30 richie23: oh, sounds bad... Jul 09 13:29:41 btw the last one does not do anything sensible after booting Jul 09 13:30:34 the 20080430 devel image is the only one that works sensible at least as it is - but no network, too : ( Jul 09 13:30:46 richie23: it's weird, I don't know what I could do to help you, sorry Jul 09 13:31:16 hmm Jul 09 13:31:21 Wander_w: not yet ;) Jul 09 13:31:22 Im wondering what i've done wrong Jul 09 13:31:26 hm.. why can't i power off bluetooth?? Jul 09 13:31:27 my FR is at a 4~ load average Jul 09 13:31:33 and it's slow, and it Jul 09 13:31:37 it's not running anything. Jul 09 13:32:03 ecraven: most of the gui stuff obviously has issues Jul 09 13:32:04 flexd: Did you install Windows Vista on it? Jul 09 13:32:10 top says events/0 is using 23% CPU Jul 09 13:32:11 Wander_w: yes! Jul 09 13:32:15 How did you know? :o Jul 09 13:32:23 flexd: well, there's your problem! Jul 09 13:32:25 Now there's your prahblem! ;) Jul 09 13:32:27 what is avahi-daemon and neod? Jul 09 13:32:39 I actually run vista on this machine, works great. Jul 09 13:32:42 It's vista Jul 09 13:32:45 so you know, not nice Jul 09 13:32:46 But it works Jul 09 13:32:47 avahi-deamon is the "zero config" service Jul 09 13:32:52 hmm Jul 09 13:33:12 but what is neod and events/0? Jul 09 13:33:15 neod... I believe it does stuff specific for the neo Jul 09 13:33:23 MarcOChapeau: i can't even turn it off by echo 0 > power_on in /sys/...neo1973-pm-bt.0/.. Jul 09 13:33:30 load is ~2.3 here... cpu idling. Jul 09 13:33:38 neod should *not* open all input/event* Jul 09 13:33:41 03:56:18 up 1 day, 5:27, 1 user, load average: 4.07, 4.15, 3.96 Jul 09 13:34:28 Ainulindale: what exact image were you using with usb gadget working? Jul 09 13:34:29 this is with gps, gsm, wifi and bluetooth turned off Jul 09 13:34:41 richie23: all of them :-) Jul 09 13:35:05 richie23: and it should work for you using make flash-qemu-official Jul 09 13:35:26 can i somehow tell the mokomakefile not to build *all* locales? Jul 09 13:35:39 i did that - but that does not define what image is used, it just takes that what was downloaded before Jul 09 13:36:26 You did build your own image ? Jul 09 13:37:13 no - please do not recommend this process that takes ages, does not work behind proxies and always fails somewhere in the middle because of one faulty line of code in one of thousands of packages : ((( Jul 09 13:37:33 It was a simple question don't worry :-) Jul 09 13:37:38 and even is not capable of resuming after download errors or compile errors... Jul 09 13:37:40 ecraven: yes you can Jul 09 13:37:46 edistar_: how? Jul 09 13:37:46 ok Jul 09 13:37:54 ecraven: can't remember :) Jul 09 13:38:03 sry, but i am really disappointed by the error handling of mokomakefile Jul 09 13:38:24 ecraven: GLIBC_GENERATE_LOCALES = "en_US.UTF-8 fr_FR.UTF-8" Jul 09 13:38:27 (for me) Jul 09 13:38:33 richie23: well... IMHO it SHOULDN'T handle errors Jul 09 13:38:43 (errors == bad) Jul 09 13:38:50 ecraven: build/conf/local.conf Jul 09 13:39:29 Wander_w: very funny, you mean 10 hours of compilations for nothing are ok if one download server fails afterwards??? Jul 09 13:39:56 richie23: use bitbake then Jul 09 13:39:58 it may not be that bad every time, but happended enough times to really annoy me Jul 09 13:40:05 richie23: what else should it do? Jul 09 13:40:22 continue where it was interrupted? Jul 09 13:40:39 richie23: that is what it should do Jul 09 13:40:41 not thinking that a broken download worked and then fail at unpacking... Jul 09 13:40:45 (and it does, for me) Jul 09 13:41:15 Ainulindale: thanks! Jul 09 13:41:22 ecraven: you're welcome Jul 09 13:42:18 it does continue if it fails "at the right time" - downloads that fail at 50 % or so are definitely the wrong time : ( Jul 09 13:42:27 unfortunately i do not have perfect internet access here Jul 09 13:42:36 richie23: use bitbake then (again) Jul 09 13:42:38 wget -r Jul 09 13:42:42 wget -r -c Jul 09 13:43:10 richie23: don't blame mokomakefile for your faulty internetconnection Jul 09 13:43:41 well, i seem to have a different view of under what circumstances mokomakefile should work... Jul 09 13:44:20 anyway, i would be pleased if running a gta01 image on gta01 qemu with any kind of working network connection between host and qemu would work Jul 09 13:44:40 this _should_ be quite simple, but both pppd and gadgetfs continue to fail here Jul 09 13:44:47 richie23: apparently we do.. but hey, it's opensource and you are free to improve :) Jul 09 13:45:03 i would like to do - if there was one point to work on Jul 09 13:45:05 richie23: boot qemu with -serial stdio Jul 09 13:45:12 And put the result on pastebin Jul 09 13:45:25 (modify Makefile on run-qemu for that) Jul 09 13:45:30 every time one approch failed, a second, third and fourth is presented - that does not motivate to improve one of them : ( Jul 09 13:45:33 (and check that you really have -usb -usbgadget Jul 09 13:45:45 Ainulindale: i'll do that, one moment Jul 09 13:45:59 richie23: http://pastebin.com/m31c16b09 Jul 09 13:46:00 Mine Jul 09 13:46:07 right - to make this work would i need to do as described here? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Boot_from_sd_card#Boot_enviorment_.28GTA02.29 Jul 09 13:46:24 As in, to get a freerunner out of the box to boot from a properly prepated bootable SD card Jul 09 13:50:01 Ainulindale: i have exactly the same qemu line now - what does serial stdio do? i did not see a change up to now Jul 09 13:50:44 richie23: it outputs the kernel output on stdio Jul 09 13:51:17 If possible, how do I combine the Qt build system (qmake) with the OM Toolchain? Jul 09 13:51:23 And if you can put the whole log, starting from the make run-qemu I could try to help you Jul 09 13:51:28 (-> to build a qt app for the neo) Jul 09 13:51:46 well, that happended before, too... Jul 09 13:51:55 http://pastebin.com/m664432b3 Jul 09 13:52:51 And now if you type in usb_add gadget:1 on the console ? Jul 09 13:52:56 (qemu console) Jul 09 13:53:02 openmoko: 03graeme 07org.openmoko.dev * r2e387044089a 10/packages/gtk+/ (13 files in 2 dirs): [gtk+] add the latest version of gtk+ Jul 09 13:53:02 openmoko: 03graeme 07org.openmoko.dev * ra64fb4177283 10/packages/glib-2.0/ (glib-2.0-2.16.4/configure-libtool.patch glib-2.0_2.16.4.bb): [glib-2.0] add the latest version of glib Jul 09 13:53:03 openmoko: 03graeme 07org.openmoko.dev * r688e844b11f2 10/conf/distro/include/preferred-om-2008-versions.inc: [pref-versions] update the gtk+ version used to the latest. Jul 09 13:53:04 openmoko: 03graeme 07org.openmoko.dev * r1d2ffa9abf44 10/conf/distro/openmoko.conf: [openmoko] remove all ${MACHINE_CLASS} settings, they are no longer Jul 09 13:53:36 Hail! Jul 09 13:53:52 * leinir curtsies :) Jul 09 13:53:54 http://pastebin.com/m69652d08 Jul 09 13:54:00 uh-oh... it's back Jul 09 13:54:10 :D Jul 09 13:54:38 Dave: No, not you, my boss Jul 09 13:54:49 richie23: the whole log :-) Jul 09 13:55:00 Oh :P Jul 09 13:55:04 It's supposed to output some detection I think Jul 09 13:55:09 Hallo Ainulindale :) Jul 09 13:55:20 Hi All Jul 09 13:55:27 Dave: hi Jul 09 13:55:33 richie23: s3c_udc_handle_packet: EP0 overrun Jul 09 13:55:33 usb0: full speed config #1: 500 mA, Ethernet Gadget, using CDC Ethernet Jul 09 13:55:35 Mine. Jul 09 13:55:46 Ecraven? Jul 09 13:55:50 aye? Jul 09 13:55:56 I am planning to buy Neo Free runner Jul 09 13:55:56 :D Jul 09 13:56:16 linux_manju: And you shall be granted everlasting life! Jul 09 13:56:28 linux_manju: or at least it'll seem so while you build the software. Jul 09 13:56:29 richie23: If you compiled your modules as modules and not within the kernel, if you could check that lsmod outputs cdc_ether, gadgetfs, dummy_hcd and usbnet... Jul 09 13:56:29 :) Jul 09 13:56:39 Ecraven, so what have you been up to? Jul 09 13:56:48 Speedevil :) Jul 09 13:57:12 I need few inputs on the same.. Like 1) how good is the battery backup Jul 09 13:57:31 2) How good is the sound output ( In comparision to Iphone ) Jul 09 13:57:39 Battery life is a work in progress. Jul 09 13:57:43 libgsmd-tool -m shell sl segfaults in libc... Jul 09 13:57:46 * Dave pictures a Freerunner in place of the holy grail a la Indiana Jones; where you're stuck using it in that room (with no wifi or gsm), for the rest of your life :P Jul 09 13:58:05 running the mokomakefile, will take some more hours.. then i hope to get a neod that works correctly Jul 09 13:58:07 At the moment, 6h or so - maybe more, but not stable. Jul 09 13:58:35 SpeedEvil: 6 Hours standby or Talk time? Jul 09 13:58:42 Battery life should improve - it looks like a week standby, 7 or 8 hours on a call, and 20 hours mp3 should be possible. Jul 09 13:58:44 ecraven, with what options does it segv? Jul 09 13:58:55 exactly what i said ;) Jul 09 13:58:56 SpeedEvil: Not bad Jul 09 13:59:00 run libgsmd-tool -m shell Jul 09 13:59:01 linux_manju: suspend is not properly implemented at teh moment - it crashes. Jul 09 13:59:02 then type sl Jul 09 13:59:09 followed by return Jul 09 13:59:27 Module Size Used by Jul 09 13:59:28 cdc_ether 5888 0 Jul 09 13:59:28 usbnet 18056 1 cdc_ether Jul 09 13:59:28 tun 11136 1 Jul 09 13:59:28 gadgetfs 17936 2 Jul 09 13:59:28 dummy_hcd 17284 1 gadgetfs Jul 09 13:59:31 SpeedEvil: Thanks for the input Jul 09 13:59:38 I just did Jul 09 13:59:44 does it work? Jul 09 13:59:47 hah, yeah, no. Jul 09 13:59:47 SpeedEvil: Any idea about stereo sound output? Jul 09 13:59:51 do you get a list of sms? Jul 09 13:59:53 Ainulindale: what do you mean by whole log? that was qemu log Jul 09 13:59:55 SpeedEvil: In coparision with Iphone? Jul 09 14:00:01 List SMS... then Segmentation fault. Jul 09 14:00:06 :) Jul 09 14:00:07 same here Jul 09 14:00:07 linux_manju: at the moment this 6h was for standby time Jul 09 14:00:10 right Jul 09 14:00:14 crappy :p Jul 09 14:00:16 richie23: from the last line of what you pasted before Jul 09 14:00:20 Battery life at teh moment is very much a work in progress. Currently suspend is broken, so you get 6-12 hours depending on what's on. The hardware appears capable of doing a week standby, with 20 hours mp3, and 5 hours+ talk time. Jul 09 14:00:23 i tried gdb, but it only shows one frame, directly in libc.so Jul 09 14:00:34 Any ideas as to the cause, or are you just going to rebuilt the whole thing? Jul 09 14:00:38 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Comparison_of_file_systems&oldid=220529437#Features Jul 09 14:00:38 hmm Jul 09 14:00:41 linux_manju: there is one speaker ATM Jul 09 14:00:47 but if you'll get suspend working it will increase to something about 20h Jul 09 14:00:48 host machine: http://pastebin.com/m5ef9f691 Jul 09 14:00:51 Dave: no idea, i just wanted to send an sms ;) Jul 09 14:00:55 hah! Jul 09 14:00:59 linux_manju: though you gcan get stereo fro the headset and A2DP Jul 09 14:01:02 oh, holy on a sec :D Jul 09 14:01:06 Dave: what's your maximum uptime? Jul 09 14:01:28 http://pastebin.com/ma22033e - there is no more! Jul 09 14:01:28 is suspend in the works? how much is battery performance priorized at the moment? (when to expect "good" images?) Jul 09 14:01:32 SpeedEvil: Lets Say If I connect my Senhieser head gear.. Jul 09 14:01:45 SpeedEvil: Will it sound as good as an Iphone/Ipod? Jul 09 14:02:14 hah Jul 09 14:02:16 hm.. where exactly is the microphone? inside the hollow space? or are there two microphones on the lower sides? Jul 09 14:02:19 linux_manju: I think so - but I haven't seen any test. Jul 09 14:02:20 Speedevil, elaborate. Jul 09 14:02:27 Ecraven, I found more bugs in gta02.py :x Jul 09 14:02:40 SpeedEvil: Great.. Thanks alot Jul 09 14:02:44 It definitely needs some work if we want it to be goood :P Jul 09 14:02:47 Dave: what? Jul 09 14:02:48 Dave: the uptime you've seen on battery - what's the max? Jul 09 14:02:59 richie23: and if you do a ifconfig -a, there's no usb device ? Jul 09 14:03:02 plus I think we should add to it making it a more robust informational tool for the frerunner :D Jul 09 14:03:15 Dave: yes, i want better information on all interfaces that are up Jul 09 14:03:21 Speedy, max battery, as in, just sitting there, powered on? Jul 09 14:03:26 Daviey: yes Jul 09 14:03:27 are here some polish people? ;] if yes, i'm inviting to #openmoko.pl :] Jul 09 14:03:30 he Jul 09 14:03:33 Dave: sitting there, screen blanked Jul 09 14:03:50 like 13h I think Jul 09 14:04:05 Ainulindale: right, no usb device - how should there be one with those error message? error -110 is timeout, isn't it? Jul 09 14:04:06 that's with all the antennas powered off Jul 09 14:04:22 openmoko-today always churns on the cpu though, which sucks. Jul 09 14:04:33 and neod too, half the time Jul 09 14:04:36 Daviey: GSM shouldn't in principle use more than a few percent a day. Jul 09 14:04:36 * Dave smirks at ecraven Jul 09 14:04:46 Daviey: how much CPU idle? Jul 09 14:04:51 * SpeedEvil sighs. Jul 09 14:04:57 Dave: openmoko-today crashes on my fr Jul 09 14:05:00 * Dave rolls his eyes at Speedevil Jul 09 14:05:04 ecraven, hah! Jul 09 14:05:06 yeah, pos :p Jul 09 14:05:21 Dave: can you turn off bluetooth? make the icon disappear? Jul 09 14:05:24 * SpeedEvil picks up Daves eyes, and rolls them at CVirus. Jul 09 14:05:26 I think I am going to try a camera and usb wifi today if I have time this afternoon Jul 09 14:05:39 richie23: I can't help you with that then, I didn't have any problem of this kind Jul 09 14:05:47 ecraven, one COULD if they wanted to Jul 09 14:05:50 it's not hard :) Jul 09 14:06:08 just [re]start matchbox-panel without the bluetooth part presumably :) Jul 09 14:06:09 Dave: i tried, didn't work.. even echoing 0 to /sys/...bt.0/power_on Jul 09 14:06:13 That's just my guess though. Jul 09 14:06:13 Dave: What hardware ( Just Curious ) Jul 09 14:06:14 Yeah no Jul 09 14:06:25 well, that wouldn't disable bluetooth, just not show the icon Jul 09 14:06:41 Though I could see why along with gsm keeping it in the tray is convenient/helpful since you can conveniently power it on again without having to navigate to additional menus Jul 09 14:06:47 though right, it can be a bit misleading. Jul 09 14:06:53 Ainulindale: hmm, ok - but is there anything that can be checked if the build qemu has correct gadget support? Jul 09 14:06:58 ecraven, I thought that's what you wanted XD Jul 09 14:07:03 otherwise kill blueprobe? Jul 09 14:07:13 linux_manju: with respect to what? Jul 09 14:07:18 apart from grep CONFIG_GADGETFS config-host.h Jul 09 14:08:04 which returns #define CONFIG_GADGETFS 1 Jul 09 14:08:08 Dave: You are trying Cam and bluetooth on what handset..? Jul 09 14:08:52 fr Jul 09 14:09:59 SpeedEvil: One last question I have... Jul 09 14:10:19 SpeedEvil: Does freerunner have any GPS builtin maps? Jul 09 14:10:59 SpeedEvil: I would like to see few India Cities there Jul 09 14:11:05 indian Jul 09 14:11:22 like Nokia GPS pre loaded maps Jul 09 14:11:51 interesting to me too Jul 09 14:12:56 richie23: I think you should start from scratch, build qemu, then flash-qemu-official Jul 09 14:13:07 i did that today Jul 09 14:13:17 Then I can't help you I'm sorry Jul 09 14:13:20 with freshly wget'ed mokomakefile Jul 09 14:14:17 ok... still very strange why all these things seem to work for some and without known differences not work for others... Jul 09 14:15:06 that pretty much implies difference. Jul 09 14:15:49 of course, but this difference can also be getting the images "the right time" or "the wrong time", which can be one hour in between Jul 09 14:18:09 hmmm... seems like the qtopia dialer doesnt support things like *100# ... Jul 09 14:20:26 is there any known issue with accessing the two accellerometers in the fr? Jul 09 14:20:37 jannu: like? Jul 09 14:20:40 I can only access one under /dev/input/event3 Jul 09 14:20:43 jakob__: you just can Jul 09 14:20:50 jakob__: there should be all three in there Jul 09 14:20:59 Oh Jul 09 14:21:07 I mean - all six axes Jul 09 14:21:07 the second one /dev/input/event2 does not give any information :( Jul 09 14:21:12 ohh Jul 09 14:21:21 event2 is I think the touchscreen and the buttons Jul 09 14:21:33 ahh okey :) Jul 09 14:21:45 Actually, event2 may be the buttons and the headset jack/hold button Jul 09 14:21:51 Than I misinterpreted the given data in the event stream Jul 09 14:21:52 jakob__: Yeah, there's a known issue Jul 09 14:22:04 abraxa_: there is? Jul 09 14:22:19 abraxa_: is there any kind of patch or known fix yet? Jul 09 14:23:21 is there a hint on howto integrate qmake-qt4 (or some qtopia-equivalent?) with the om toolchain? Jul 09 14:23:40 SpeedEvil / jakob__: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2008-July/003340.html Jul 09 14:23:41 SpeedEvil: huh ? Jul 09 14:23:48 Tanuva: praying to a diety probably helps Jul 09 14:23:59 abraxa_: http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/pisi/ I released it in the wild. It doesn't work yet though.. Jul 09 14:24:54 ebbe: Thanks, I'll have a look as time permits :) Jul 09 14:25:03 XorA: hmm. means: No way to build qt apps for asu yet? Jul 09 14:25:26 Tanuva: qtopia-phone build system gives me brain ache Jul 09 14:26:24 XorA: So I have to take a look at that... Maybe I get it to work automagically... *shudder* Jul 09 14:26:39 Tanuva: actually you can use qtopia distro itself as the dev environment for ASU Jul 09 14:26:44 abraxa_: thx. It seems I have to wait for a fix :) But I am glad I didn't misinterpret the data from the accelerometer :) Jul 09 14:26:52 Tanuva: qtopia knows about cross compiling Jul 09 14:27:51 XorA: sounds better. I'm without a mouse atm, everything takes a bit longer using the tab key, but Ill take a look at it :) Jul 09 14:28:03 ok, am i just ignorant, or is the instructions on what to do to flash the device a little... abstract? Jul 09 14:28:57 "Before you execute the command, please log into U-Boot in the NOR Flash. The Neo FreeRunner needs to be booted into U-Boot for flashing." Jul 09 14:29:26 leinir: loggin into NOR is described a few lines above this Jul 09 14:30:20 Tanuva: For people used to generic boot menus such as Grub or Lilo or the windows boot manager or ehrm... the name of the thing used on PPC macs name of which escapes me... Jul 09 14:30:35 leinir: efi Jul 09 14:30:39 The use of the term "Log in" is a little out of place... if not confusing ;) Jul 09 14:30:45 At least, that's how it seems to me :) Jul 09 14:31:01 hmm. I got used to it after a few tries, but you might be right Jul 09 14:31:07 So, it's just turn on the device and leave it on the u-boot menu, do nothing else? Jul 09 14:31:19 CVirus: Huh? Jul 09 14:31:33 [17:05] * SpeedEvil picks up Daves eyes, and rolls them at CVirus. Jul 09 14:31:35 as in, connect it via the usb cable, leave at the U-Boot menu :) Jul 09 14:31:36 yep. but press a button once in a while if youre not flashing, otherwise it will turn itself off :) Jul 09 14:31:48 CVirus: Oh - nothing. Jul 09 14:31:55 CVirus: I thought you were active, I hadn't checked backscroll. Jul 09 14:31:58 *nods* Yeah, i noticed that one :) Right, i will try and come up with a better formulation for the wiki... Jul 09 14:32:00 hehe Jul 09 14:32:04 CVirus: just silliness. Jul 09 14:32:21 so CVirus never gave dave his eyes bacvk :-D Jul 09 14:32:24 Or just describe the use of the term "Log in" in this context, so it doesn't confuse elsewhere :) Jul 09 14:32:35 hello, is it possible to rotate the screen of the freerunner for better web browsing? Jul 09 14:32:49 leinir: one could say "boot into $flashtype" Jul 09 14:32:57 or rather boot from Jul 09 14:33:05 Gnutoo: yes, but how depends on image installed, and I forget which image has witch methods Jul 09 14:33:38 XorA, wow, ok thanks a lot Jul 09 14:34:42 Tanuva: Yeah, add a comment to the effect that "Logging into NOR" means to "Turn on the device in NOR mode and leave it at the U-Boot menu. Make sure to tap the AUX button to move the selection bar, to avoid the device turning off." Jul 09 14:34:46 Something like that? :) Jul 09 14:35:35 leinir: sounds good Jul 09 14:35:55 leinir: maybe add that it wont turn off automatically while flashing to prevent people from panicking :D Jul 09 14:37:18 Aah, good plan :) Jul 09 14:40:56 hi all, I have neo 1973 and I typed 'nand erase' on u-boot command prompt; now the device doesn't even start any help ? Jul 09 14:41:19 :x Jul 09 14:41:35 hi, which tool can be used to flash uboot? thx Jul 09 14:41:38 mohamed: Congratulations, you didn't read the wiki. You'll need to get your hands on a debug board to rescue it. Jul 09 14:42:11 abraxa_: cool, I have a debug board, how can I do so :) ? Jul 09 14:42:41 mohamed: look for devirginate on wiki Jul 09 14:42:54 mohamed: its a simple script that recovers gta01/gta02 machines Jul 09 14:43:57 While i'm editing that section... Jul 09 14:44:04 "If you cannot log into U-Boot in NAND then you can log into U-Boot in the NOR Flash either." Jul 09 14:44:07 ...eh? :) Jul 09 14:44:19 *fg* Jul 09 14:44:28 Which is it? ;) Jul 09 14:44:33 isnt NOR there to recover from a broken NAND? Jul 09 14:44:49 either cannot and cannot, or either replaced with instead :) Jul 09 14:45:15 I'd say instead, but better ask one of the experts first :) Jul 09 14:45:25 Yeah... Jul 09 14:45:38 XorA: ok, but I have problems in connecting the debug board, could you guide to connecting please Jul 09 14:45:46 That would be my guess as well, the sentence seems a bit malplaced otherwise :) Jul 09 14:45:47 leinir, does neo1973 has nor flash? Jul 09 14:45:50 mohamed: hey man Jul 09 14:46:06 CVirus: hello :) Jul 09 14:46:14 mohamed: b0rked your Neo ? Jul 09 14:46:20 mohamed: I have to leave Jul 09 14:46:25 CVirus: I've bricked my device :D Jul 09 14:46:30 Openfree: I dont think so, otherwise it wouldnt be so dangerous to break NAND uboot Jul 09 14:46:46 XorA: ok, thanks for your time, I'll try to handle it :) Jul 09 14:47:05 i am listning to the Tombonen song in the Danish radio Jul 09 14:47:16 there are a number of debug board experts here :-D Jul 09 14:47:39 is there any guide on how to connect that debug board to the PC and to neo ? Jul 09 14:47:57 hi all, I am unable to connect to my freerunner via ssh, it gets ip etc np but logging in prompts for the password. I set the password via the terminal application but it won't accept it. just get permission denied Jul 09 14:48:01 any ideas? Jul 09 14:48:10 Tanuva, neofreerunner have nor, not sure about neo1973 Jul 09 14:48:20 i got my freerunner yesterday, bloody great :) Jul 09 14:48:29 CVirus: have you got any idea on how to connect the debug board ? Jul 09 14:48:46 mohamed: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Connecting_Neo1973_with_Debug_Board_v2 Jul 09 14:49:20 Openfree: i don't know, this is the Getting Started with your Neo FreeRunner article :) Jul 09 14:49:50 lina: Did you try the default password? (i.e. simply pressing enter) Jul 09 14:49:58 yeah, no joy abraxa_ Jul 09 14:50:03 have any experienced the SD card boot strap method? Jul 09 14:50:11 lina: And the password you set using passwd doesn't work either? Jul 09 14:50:20 abraxa_: I have this connection but how to connect the debug board to the PC ? Jul 09 14:50:23 abraxa_: nope, even just set it to "w" Jul 09 14:50:53 lina: Did you attempt logging in as root? "ssh root@192.168.0.202" Jul 09 14:51:06 abraxa_: yeah thats exactly what i'm doing Jul 09 14:51:20 lina: how about "ssh localhost" from "Terminal"? Jul 09 14:51:44 mohamed: The debug board gets attached to the PC's USB, the Neo's debug port to the debug board's debug port and finally, the Neo's USB to the debug board's USB hub Jul 09 14:52:21 lindi-: won't accept the password Jul 09 14:52:42 lina: I suggest setting a different password then and trying again Jul 09 14:52:58 woo im in Jul 09 14:53:09 i set the password to blank and it worked Jul 09 14:53:10 :) Jul 09 14:53:22 lina: Interesting... Jul 09 14:53:28 yeah Jul 09 14:53:42 i wonder if hte characters are being entered correclty from Terminal Jul 09 14:54:00 Does anyone know where I can find information about the dbus primitives for FSO ? Jul 09 14:55:05 Ainulindale: http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=specs.git;a=tree (not sure how current those are) Jul 09 14:56:25 abraxa_: should the battery be inserted into neo ? Jul 09 14:56:48 It's weird abraxa_ because if I use mickeyl's tool I can't find the same thing Jul 09 14:57:04 Can't find otapi for example Jul 09 14:57:13 I was looking for org.freesmartphone.GSM Jul 09 14:57:17 mohamed: I'm not sure, to be honest. I know CM has already devirginated his Neo, so maybe you're best off asking him about these details Jul 09 14:57:48 Ainulindale: Best to ask mickeyl about it then Jul 09 14:57:54 lina: you share the same name with my sister :-) Jul 09 14:58:03 abraxa_: ok, thanks for your help :) Jul 09 14:58:08 CVirus: lucky her :) Jul 09 14:58:16 haha Jul 09 14:58:27 and about 1 million other swedes Jul 09 14:58:30 mohamed: You're welcome, and I hope all goes well. Jul 09 14:58:36 mickeyl: if you're alive, ping :-) Jul 09 14:58:59 mohamed: did you order your freerunner yet ? Jul 09 14:59:15 CVirus: not yet Jul 09 14:59:57 mohamed: my friend is travelling to the UK tomorrow .. I'll but it from the UK reseller and ship it to her home and she'll bring it back with her :-D Jul 09 15:00:36 Ainulindale: on the run, but here :) Jul 09 15:00:40 mickeyl: ok Jul 09 15:00:44 Working on SHR right now Jul 09 15:00:47 cool Jul 09 15:00:52 Came up with something looking like phonekit Jul 09 15:00:54 you were looking for the dbus API? Jul 09 15:00:57 I'm looking for documents Jul 09 15:00:58 Yep Jul 09 15:01:04 Can't find otapi with mdbus Jul 09 15:01:07 CVirus: cool, then you'll get it after ..... ? Jul 09 15:01:16 otapi is just the high level name Jul 09 15:01:17 And that's why I can't find org.freesmartphone.GSM Jul 09 15:01:32 mohamed: 2 months Jul 09 15:01:32 Ok, so if you have some kind of documentation to show to me I'd be glad Jul 09 15:01:47 mohamed: maybe less Jul 09 15:01:52 http://www.freesmartphone.org/index.php/Standards/OpenPhoneServerAPI Jul 09 15:02:05 or, if you prefer the XML spec Jul 09 15:02:08 mickeyl: and some docs on what phonekit is supposed to output, also Jul 09 15:02:13 CVirus: but that's not less than shipping to Egypt :) Jul 09 15:02:26 Hmmm it's weird mickeyl I can't find org.freesmartphone.GSM as I said Jul 09 15:02:28 for phonekit, just check the xml description in there Jul 09 15:02:36 Ainulindale: frameworkd is running? Jul 09 15:02:44 yep Jul 09 15:02:53 what does mdbus -s show? Jul 09 15:03:09 odeviced, oeventd, frameworkd, ophoned, ousaged Jul 09 15:03:30 d'oh Jul 09 15:03:37 gsmd subsystem did not start then Jul 09 15:03:41 mohamed: if I ship to Egypt I'll have to pay for customs and such ... besides, they might not let it in Jul 09 15:03:49 try launching only that and check the output of Jul 09 15:03:52 frameworkd -s ogsmd Jul 09 15:03:54 that's it, im getting mine when it comes out in the openmoko.com store :) Jul 09 15:04:03 (900) Jul 09 15:04:36 I'm supposed to launch it with my beautiful deer eyes or do you have a command for that ? :-) Jul 09 15:04:46 CVirus: ah I know, I'm just kidding :D , remember I've paid around 600 $ to get Neo 1973 Advanced Jul 09 15:04:50 mohamed: 227 pound sterling Jul 09 15:05:02 :-) Jul 09 15:05:36 Ainulindale: hehe, do 'frameworkd -s ogsmd' on the console Jul 09 15:05:42 (a very recent frameworkd i hope) Jul 09 15:05:46 That's what I did Jul 09 15:05:51 And still nothing Jul 09 15:06:14 hmm Jul 09 15:06:16 any output? Jul 09 15:06:25 nope Jul 09 15:06:34 ok, try Jul 09 15:06:37 export FRAMEWORK_DEBUG=1 Jul 09 15:06:42 then again Jul 09 15:06:55 How many kg is the FreeRunner package ? Jul 09 15:07:12 CVirus: 2.0 Jul 09 15:07:15 ups said 1 Jul 09 15:07:25 0.6 lbs i think Jul 09 15:07:30 Well, somewhere inbetween then :) Jul 09 15:07:31 just check om.com.... Jul 09 15:07:32 It's less than a kilo, definitely :) Jul 09 15:07:32 abraxa_: thanks Jul 09 15:07:51 mickeyl: framework: 'objects registered' Jul 09 15:08:05 ok, lets do it step by step Jul 09 15:08:12 1.) please update to the latest frameworkd package Jul 09 15:08:20 opkg update ? Jul 09 15:08:29 well, you probably need to build it Jul 09 15:08:31 opkg install, prolly Jul 09 15:08:33 oh Jul 09 15:08:48 Delivery (0.6 kg) Jul 09 15:08:59 5 sterling Jul 09 15:09:09 mickeyl: so make shorter steps please ;-) Do I opkg it or pull mtn revision then bitbake it ? Jul 09 15:09:14 fuck .. I'll pay VAT Jul 09 15:09:20 Oh by the way Jul 09 15:09:21 framework: 'regular timeout' Jul 09 15:09:24 ya, mtn pull && mtn update Jul 09 15:09:30 then bitbake frameworkd Jul 09 15:09:33 Why do I have to pay VAT .. I live in Egypt !! Jul 09 15:09:34 then copy the ipkg over to your neo Jul 09 15:09:41 then opkg install Jul 09 15:09:50 (I'm working with qemu) Jul 09 15:09:58 (My neo is trying to ship to bearstech) Jul 09 15:10:00 oooh Jul 09 15:10:03 (Hopefully tomorrow \o/) Jul 09 15:10:05 heh Jul 09 15:10:11 well Jul 09 15:10:17 forget it then :D Jul 09 15:10:25 ogsmd requires a gsm subsystem Jul 09 15:10:31 Oh Jul 09 15:10:32 it can't open your TI Calypso Jul 09 15:10:35 and then fails Jul 09 15:10:35 So I'm doomed Jul 09 15:10:42 kind of :) Jul 09 15:10:43 Doomed to wait :-) Jul 09 15:10:54 sorry, bout that, but i did not have a dummy mode yet Jul 09 15:10:55 mickeyl: I suppose I could try with the documentation inbetween then Jul 09 15:10:59 yeah Jul 09 15:11:22 Do you have something more technical than the previous link ? Jul 09 15:11:27 With methods and so on ? Jul 09 15:11:30 (The XML would be great) Jul 09 15:11:37 Ainulindale: I have scripts that will spit out the xml Jul 09 15:11:47 Ainulindale: Of course, they require that the dbus service be running :-) Jul 09 15:11:49 wurp2: it won't launch Jul 09 15:11:52 Yep ;-) Jul 09 15:11:58 well, http://www.freesmartphone.org/index.php/Standards/OpenPhoneServerAPI points to the individual docs Jul 09 15:12:02 generated from the xml Jul 09 15:12:05 mickeyl: Ok, didn't see that, sorry :-) Jul 09 15:12:06 but i can show you the xml.in Jul 09 15:12:35 http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=specs.git;a=tree;h=e3d9909d4673b626e8c2b54b899a31ea11096fea;hb=e3d9909d4673b626e8c2b54b899a31ea11096fea Jul 09 15:12:49 Thanks a lot mickeyl Jul 09 15:12:53 np :) Jul 09 15:12:54 bbiab Jul 09 15:17:11 hi all, I want to devirginate neo 1973, but it doen't power up, although I've inserted a charged battery into it, any help ? Jul 09 15:18:51 mohamed: Have you tried googling for site:wiki.openmoko.org debug board? Jul 09 15:19:43 has there been any updates on shipments from fremont? Jul 09 15:19:49 wurp2: I've tried the instructions that is written on the wiki, the step of switching the phone on can't be done :( Jul 09 15:20:14 mohamed: I don't know anything about resurrecting a neo with a bad uboot, sorry Jul 09 15:20:50 wurp2: never mind ;) Jul 09 15:22:12 how many neo1973 were sold? Jul 09 15:22:46 about 1000 IIRC Jul 09 15:23:51 okay, and how many freerunners have been sold? Jul 09 15:27:30 what is FPC mentioned in step 2 at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_re-flashing_the_bootloader ? Jul 09 15:27:47 the ribbon cable ? Jul 09 15:29:30 spydon: dunno, quite a few considering they are not ready for the general public Jul 09 15:29:40 spydon: I got mine yesterday, its gorgeous Jul 09 15:29:51 lina, nice ^^ Jul 09 15:29:58 spydon: just flashing a new image Jul 09 15:30:06 lina, where did you order from? Jul 09 15:30:11 lina: Didn't it boot out of the box? Jul 09 15:30:12 some german site Jul 09 15:30:19 wurp2: yeah, worked well Jul 09 15:30:23 excellent Jul 09 15:30:39 wurp2: crashes a bit and I want to see the newer builds Jul 09 15:31:01 sound quality sucks bigtime on the build that it came with Jul 09 15:31:10 voice quality that is Jul 09 15:31:23 hoping that this will be improved via the software Jul 09 15:31:30 bit concerned about it actualy Jul 09 15:32:15 lina: FSO Milestone 1 has better sound Jul 09 15:32:27 wurp2: cool, but not much else eh? Jul 09 15:32:28 :) Jul 09 15:32:31 lina: The real problem is that the non-neo person hears an echo on every release I've heard Jul 09 15:32:37 lina: Yeah, hence SHR Jul 09 15:32:51 The echo is less bad on FSO Jul 09 15:33:07 nice Jul 09 15:33:36 I think turnding down thevolume will help. There's no way to do that on FSO other than sshing in & fiddling with alsactl Jul 09 15:34:22 mohamed: yes, "FPC" is the ribbon cable that connects the Neo and the debug board Jul 09 15:35:07 mmontour: I'm trying to switch on the phone but it doesn't respond, have you got any idea ? Jul 09 15:35:48 openmoko has hit diggs front page again! http://tiny.cc/digg790 Jul 09 15:36:26 Follow the procedure on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Debug_Board_v2 and http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Debug_Board_v2/Unbricking Jul 09 15:36:46 You will not see anything happen when you turn the phone on (with the power button) but you will be able to connect with openocd Jul 09 15:37:26 mmontour: so how can I know that it is turned on :) ? Jul 09 15:38:02 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ Jul 09 15:38:21 Have faith. You will get an openocd error later if it isn't turned on. Jul 09 15:38:22 I'm contemplating splitting out all of the neo1973 related information to a 'historical' section at the end. Jul 09 15:38:28 everyone here got their freerunner? or are some still stuck on the neo1973? :P Jul 09 15:38:42 And rewriting it in terms of agnostic to hardware/freerunner. Does this sound sane? Jul 09 15:38:54 lina: neo. No cash. Jul 09 15:38:55 Also, I saw earlier that someone said to plug the Neo's USB into the debug-board hub. I recommend plugging the Neo's USB directly into your PC Jul 09 15:39:01 SpeedEvil, sounds. Jul 09 15:39:34 * SpeedEvil passes mjr elephant_trumpetting.mp3 Jul 09 15:40:08 SpeedEvil: sucks, I can send you mine when GTA03 comes out ;) Jul 09 15:40:32 mohamed: when you get to the point of installing a new u-boot image, I recommend http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/neo/u-boot-gta01bv4-1.3.3%2bsvnr4297-r0.bin Jul 09 15:40:46 I have to go now. Good luck. Jul 09 15:40:48 mjr: did you miss words off it? Jul 09 15:41:01 (that last coment) Jul 09 15:41:15 mmontour: ok thanks for your help :) Jul 09 15:41:37 not really Jul 09 15:41:48 but you may add "it" and "sane" if you like Jul 09 15:43:44 * HauDyr is sitting and unwarpping his FreeRunner Jul 09 15:44:12 ohhhhh.... tell us everything.. is it shiny ? Jul 09 15:44:51 christmas came early for me! Jul 09 15:45:18 how to install software in openrunner Jul 09 15:46:19 HauDyr: hard to get the lid off hte box isn't it? :D Jul 09 15:46:34 yup Jul 09 15:46:40 ChandleWEi: All distributions have ipkg/opkg that you can use Jul 09 15:46:48 and its a little larger than i thurght Jul 09 15:46:59 HauDyr: yeah, you get used to it though Jul 09 15:47:07 btw: whats the difference between i- and opkg? Jul 09 15:47:13 day 2 here and it feels "normal" sized Jul 09 15:47:20 think of it as "substantial" Jul 09 15:47:24 Tanuva: ipkg is stale, opkg has more life in it :) Jul 09 15:47:25 Tanuva: opkg is a fork of ipkg afaik Jul 09 15:47:41 ah :) Jul 09 15:49:40 lina, now i just have to find my extra sim card Jul 09 15:49:48 hehe Jul 09 15:50:11 HauDyr: i just flashed the latest reccomended image. BIG improvement Jul 09 15:50:24 HauDyr: I reccomend you do that before getting stuck in Jul 09 15:51:00 I have the following error: Jul 09 15:51:02 Info: openocd.c:93 main(): Open On-Chip Debugger (2007-09-05 09:00 CEST) Jul 09 15:51:04 Error: parport.c:359 parport_init(): cannot open device. check it exists and that user read and write rights are set Jul 09 15:51:05 any help ? Jul 09 15:51:07 abraxa_: thx Jul 09 15:53:35 mohamed: Sounds like you didn't configure OpenOCD to use the debug board Jul 09 15:54:41 abraxa_: I've used the file provided by the wiki http://people.gta01.hmw-consulting.de/laforge/misc/openocd.cfg Jul 09 15:55:38 I'm currently downloading qtopia-src, will I find some build tool in it? Jul 09 15:55:50 (to build qt software for asu) Jul 09 15:58:01 mohamed: Did you apply http://people.openmoko.org/werner/openocd-ft2232.patch to the config file? Jul 09 16:05:32 abraxa_: I've used the mokomakefile to get openocd, but the following error occurs http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/26225/ Jul 09 16:09:57 anyone using scardycat image? Jul 09 16:10:05 lina: I am, but on gta01 Jul 09 16:10:13 lina: And it's a version from June 11 Jul 09 16:10:14 wurp2: any good? Jul 09 16:10:23 Yeah Jul 09 16:10:43 After 2007.2 started being broken, his was the only full-featured semi-working version for a long time Jul 09 16:10:49 am i just being stupid or are there no links to images from the website? http://blog.automated.it/ Jul 09 16:11:04 And he has a few little tools in there that are nice, for switching sound profiles, attaching bluetooth kbd, etc. Jul 09 16:11:11 cool Jul 09 16:11:20 lina: Hmm, there used to be images out there Jul 09 16:11:23 going to check it out, anything I should look out for with gta02? Jul 09 16:11:42 I have no idea how good his gta02 version is :-( Jul 09 16:11:51 I think I heard someone yesterday talking about issues they had with it Jul 09 16:11:56 He doesn't have an 02, I don't think Jul 09 16:12:02 ok Jul 09 16:12:08 doesn't have links either :) Jul 09 16:12:11 will skip it for now Jul 09 16:13:54 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4519 10/developers/erin_yueh/pythonEFL-sudoku/src/sudoku_ui.py: add undo, redo functions, all functions are workable (Erin Yueh) Jul 09 16:13:58 wurp! Jul 09 16:14:52 Speedevil, you around? Jul 09 16:16:48 mohamed: What command did you issue to have MokoMakefile build OpenOCD? Jul 09 16:16:54 Dave: masybe Jul 09 16:16:58 heh Jul 09 16:17:27 abraxa_: make openmoko-devel-tools Jul 09 16:17:30 I'm looking for recommendations for a camera that would be best supported on the phone Jul 09 16:17:46 mohamed: Okay, that should do the job Jul 09 16:17:54 Dave: Not too heavy, or you risk crushing the phone. Jul 09 16:17:58 I gather, if necessary, I could always cross-compile the linux driver, but it'd be better if there were something which had easier support. Jul 09 16:17:58 Dave: webcam? Jul 09 16:18:02 Speedevil, right. Jul 09 16:18:06 lindi, something like that, yes :) Jul 09 16:18:15 Dave: Creative Optia AF Jul 09 16:18:17 I need to find a camera which would be ideal for this. Jul 09 16:18:22 Actually - no Jul 09 16:18:28 No? Jul 09 16:18:32 that needs USB2 really Jul 09 16:18:37 crap Jul 09 16:18:44 So is 2MP+ unrealistic, here? Jul 09 16:18:49 Due to the way webcams work, they generall don't have onboard storage. Jul 09 16:19:06 This means that you need to read the frame out rapidly. - within 1/10th of a second Jul 09 16:19:07 right... Jul 09 16:19:18 Or more accurately - as fast as it coes off the sensor. Jul 09 16:19:18 Oh, crap Jul 09 16:19:27 damn the freerunner for everything being on the same bus :( Jul 09 16:19:32 And USB1.1 can't do that. Jul 09 16:19:54 shit Jul 09 16:20:07 Are there more complications other than that? Jul 09 16:20:21 Dave: not really AFAIK. Jul 09 16:21:34 Dave: I haven't seen drivers with x86 blobs, so that may not be an issue. Jul 09 16:21:37 Speedevil, but what if all I want is a rather decent quality image at 1fps from it, that should be reasonable Jul 09 16:21:42 Dave: drivers that won't compile on ARM may be. Jul 09 16:21:49 right :[ Jul 09 16:21:59 hence why I was looking to avoid having that trouble Jul 09 16:22:13 Of course - cameras with mass-storage... Jul 09 16:22:41 Would solve that problem, yes, but only some do, right? Jul 09 16:22:50 For example, the ip webcams probably do Jul 09 16:22:57 (wifi ones) Jul 09 16:23:07 No - I mean your average camera. Jul 09 16:23:13 Oh, right :) Jul 09 16:23:13 With a display/viewfinder/... Jul 09 16:23:18 right right Jul 09 16:23:23 of course they have local storage ;) Jul 09 16:23:27 typically, anyhow. Jul 09 16:23:48 Are you suggesting something there, Speedevil? Jul 09 16:23:57 ? Jul 09 16:24:01 or trying to market your camera to me? ;) Jul 09 16:24:16 * mjr hazards a guess that there may become a reference to some models perhaps allowing for acquisition of images over usb Jul 09 16:24:21 It's not even fully designed yet. Jul 09 16:24:29 mjr - ssssh!:P Jul 09 16:24:40 Speedevil, so far you seem enthusiastic about it though Jul 09 16:24:49 It sounds promising :) Jul 09 16:25:05 Dave: it's a flexible product in principle. If it gets reduced to practice is another question. Jul 09 16:25:12 mohamed: Please put your openocd.cfg in a pastebin Jul 09 16:25:25 Yep, true enough. Jul 09 16:25:39 What are my most viable options here? Jul 09 16:26:24 A) webcam - which will do VGA. Jul 09 16:26:41 B) any camera that you can read images off via USB. Jul 09 16:26:51 abraxa_: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/26229/ Jul 09 16:26:55 C) Polaroid + USB scanner. Jul 09 16:27:03 hah! Jul 09 16:27:19 Yes, thank you Speed Evil :) Jul 09 16:27:58 So would the Optia AF be a decent choice for a camera to test it with? Jul 09 16:28:17 from the specs it boasts it doesn't seem unreasonable. Jul 09 16:28:30 mohamed: That tells me you didn't apply http://people.openmoko.org/werner/openocd-ft2232.patch as I said Jul 09 16:28:39 some of those canon cams might be okay, what with the hacked up firmware. I seem to recall it at least could operate as a webcamish thingy. Jul 09 16:28:49 My bigger issue, as previously discussed, would be the driver. Jul 09 16:29:03 mjr, good point, I have one at home :) Jul 09 16:29:13 any americans here anything about their fr's shipping yet? Jul 09 16:29:27 Though I have no clues as to whether any of those third-party hacked up linux drivers will compile for arm :\ Jul 09 16:29:32 abraxa_: apply that patch to openocd.cfg ? Jul 09 16:29:53 mohamed: Yup. That'll disable the parallel port interface and add the ft2232 interface that the debug board uses Jul 09 16:29:58 That seems rather dubious at the moment, though I could be surprised. Jul 09 16:30:01 I just lost a call on the FSO :-( Jul 09 16:30:10 dropped call? Jul 09 16:30:14 no, lost Jul 09 16:30:21 like, it started wandering - and called someone else Jul 09 16:30:23 Incoming call that didn't ring it Jul 09 16:30:30 turned into a party-line for a while Jul 09 16:30:31 What the fuck? Jul 09 16:30:38 It was suspended, then I woke it and it *still* didn't ring Jul 09 16:30:47 Then I called out, which worked fine, and now it rings on incoming Jul 09 16:30:56 hmm Jul 09 16:30:56 FSO Milestone 1 :-( Jul 09 16:31:00 ouch! Jul 09 16:31:03 That's sad. Jul 09 16:31:20 anybody know harry Jul 09 16:31:22 wurp2: Report the bug, please :) Jul 09 16:31:23 Yeah, I guess I'll email my logs to mickey|away Jul 09 16:31:52 hah, good. Jul 09 16:31:55 abraxa_: Will do... Is it an option in the normal bug db? Jul 09 16:31:56 Stick it in his face! Jul 09 16:32:03 Wurp, though that's so strange. Jul 09 16:32:15 Are many others experiencing similar woes with frequency? Jul 09 16:32:26 I'm not sure anyone is sticking on the FSO Jul 09 16:32:36 Because it does minimal call functionality & nothing else Jul 09 16:32:52 Dave: the optia is a USB video class device. However, more relevantly, it's only 640*480 if you plug it into a USB1.1 port Jul 09 16:33:02 some people are already turning into what I would deem FSO zealots Jul 09 16:33:10 wurp2: http://www.freesmartphone.org:8000/trac-example/report/1 Jul 09 16:33:30 abraxa_: thanks Jul 09 16:33:50 <_ferric> Dave: I want to be a zealot, where do we sign up Jul 09 16:33:59 Speedevil, oh really? That makes sense, but the info creative posts seems to suggest otherwise... (so then via USB1.1 it would not be 2MP right?) Jul 09 16:34:13 ferric, subscribe to somebody's newsletter, or something... Jul 09 16:34:16 abraxa_: How do I get a login? Jul 09 16:34:40 where does qtopia store the .desktop files for the launcher? Jul 09 16:34:43 Dave: no - it's not Jul 09 16:34:59 Dave: on USB2, you can get uncompressed 2MP at 10FPS. Jul 09 16:35:05 I think I am going to use one of my gta02's as a primary calling device, in order to get my own experiences with the different versions and these calling issues. Jul 09 16:35:13 Dave: on USB1 you get 640*480*30fps jpeg Jul 09 16:35:14 Speedevil, right. Jul 09 16:35:17 ick Jul 09 16:35:25 wurp2: Maybe through registration on the wiki? http://www.freesmartphone.org/index.php/ Jul 09 16:35:35 Speedevil, right but I only need like 5FPS at most, 2MP at 1FPS would be fine! Jul 09 16:35:55 almost like a still image camera forwarding, heh. Jul 09 16:36:03 Daviey: it's got no onboard storage - it has to read it direclty off hte sensor. So it can't do that. Jul 09 16:36:04 though you're right, it is a lot of information to carry over :| Jul 09 16:36:26 yeah, where's my dma line to sd flash :P Jul 09 16:36:29 hah Jul 09 16:36:47 kdubois: I haven't heard about mine shipping yet Jul 09 16:37:08 i'm hoping they shipped it and didnt tell us :P Jul 09 16:37:11 abraxa_: :-( Jul 09 16:37:17 abraxa_: Wiki registration didn't work Jul 09 16:37:42 what are the estimates on a new hardware revision? Jul 09 16:38:07 wurp2: http://www.freesmartphone.org:8000/trac-example/newticket - it suggests that you can post anonymously, too. Maybe you want to do that until you know how to get an account Jul 09 16:38:15 dont request new hardware until we have some working software... Oo Jul 09 16:38:24 ecraven - heh - don't hold your breath ;) Jul 09 16:38:28 Tanuva, huhu Jul 09 16:38:30 Dave: months? years? Jul 09 16:38:42 ecraven: months at least. Jul 09 16:38:48 ecraven: Personal guess? Not more than 8 months Jul 09 16:38:50 <_ferric> why is the freesmartphone image caleld FSO and not FSP. plz help! :P Jul 09 16:38:51 Tanuva: that's exactly the point. if there will be a new hardware version before we have working software, i'll send mine back Jul 09 16:39:03 Speedevil, so I am in somewhat of a shitty predicament then, aren't I? Jul 09 16:39:06 * mjr joins the guessing fray and goes for 10 Jul 09 16:39:10 _ferric: Cause it's FreeSmartphone.Org Jul 09 16:39:12 ecraven :P Jul 09 16:39:18 but you should cherish it, and care for it Jul 09 16:39:26 AND FIX ALL THEIR BROKEN APPS FOR IT! :P Jul 09 16:39:27 Dave: I've not seen any webcams that will do >VGA on USB1.1 Jul 09 16:39:34 crap Jul 09 16:39:38 <_ferric> Obri: aiee. Jul 09 16:39:47 Well it's certainly worth a try, right? :) Jul 09 16:39:48 abraxa_: after applying the patch http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/26234/ :) , any help ? Jul 09 16:40:07 <_ferric> er, abraxa_ aiee, i meant. Jul 09 16:43:09 abraxa_: Thanks, anonymous adding of a ticket worked fine Jul 09 16:43:53 abraxa_: after applying the patch http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/26234/ :) , any help ? Jul 09 16:44:14 mohamed: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenOCD#Known_Bugs_and_Troubleshooting Jul 09 16:45:43 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4520 10/developers/erin_yueh/pythonEFL-sudoku/ (5 files in 4 dirs): update sudoku.desktop and add generotor, solver script (Erin Yueh) Jul 09 16:48:42 doc|home: newsflash: rogers has added/modified their data pricing somewhat Jul 09 16:49:28 where can i change the time until screen lock? Jul 09 16:55:42 abraxa_: I think I need to power it on, I'm trying to switch on the device but in vain, any help ? Jul 09 16:57:52 which environment would you say is the most robust? ASU? Jul 09 16:58:26 FSO Jul 09 16:58:37 mohamed: Did you put the battery in? Jul 09 16:58:48 is that what people are developing for now? Jul 09 16:58:50 abraxa_: sure :) Jul 09 16:59:07 So any other camera recommendations as far as linux support goes? Jul 09 16:59:36 mohamed: No idea then, sorry Jul 09 16:59:38 CM: ping Jul 09 17:02:20 abraxa_: now I have this, what shall I do ? Jul 09 17:02:22 mohamed@mohamed-laptop:~/unbrick$ sudo ./openocd -f openocd-new.cfg Jul 09 17:02:22 Dave: what kind of camera? Jul 09 17:02:23 Open On-Chip Debugger 1.0 (2008-06-30-17:24) svn:517M Jul 09 17:02:25 $URL: svn://svn.berlios.de/openocd/trunk/src/openocd.c $ Jul 09 17:02:26 Info: jtag.c:1329 jtag_examine_chain(): JTAG device found: 0x0032409d (Manufacturer: 0x04e, Part: 0x0324, Version: 0x0) Jul 09 17:03:40 Anybody got an idea why thihttp://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/open-moko-software.ars looks different then what I have preinstalled on my Freerunner ? Jul 09 17:03:54 sorry this http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/open-moko-software.ars Jul 09 17:04:29 they say it is the 2007.2 image, but mine lacks the top bar, and the rounded corners Jul 09 17:04:30 Haproli: what does it look like then? Jul 09 17:04:32 mohamed: That doesn't sound like the debug board. Please check what lsusb says. According to Werner's notes, it should list 1457:5118 as a device. Jul 09 17:04:50 Haproli: ah, its another skin Jul 09 17:05:19 Haproli: for gtk+, and it is not as heavy, rendering wise, as that skin Jul 09 17:05:36 anyone got any idea how many orders they're processing per day? Jul 09 17:05:38 is the keyboard showed on the terminal also part of the skin? Jul 09 17:06:16 Haproli: the keyboard is not part of the skin Jul 09 17:06:24 is there a way to get a real keyboard on the 2007.2? with slash and ctrl and all that? Jul 09 17:06:40 abraxa_: I'm now connected to the OCD and I want to halt the target how can I do so ? Jul 09 17:06:42 pthorin: bluetooth works Jul 09 17:07:05 pthorin: usb will work too, if you get a mini-usb and figure out how to make it work (it might work out of the box) Jul 09 17:07:12 mini-b usb Jul 09 17:07:29 Haproli: the old skin had lots of gradients, and was slow to render Jul 09 17:07:51 zash: ahso, and what about the keyboard ? Jul 09 17:08:00 wurp2: I was thinking more of software, like in the ars tec article Jul 09 17:08:13 Haproli: it is matchbox-keyboard i think Jul 09 17:08:18 and the browser and mediaplayer, these are not part of the 2007.2 image arent they Jul 09 17:08:19 which I guess is what Haproli is wondering too Jul 09 17:08:34 mohamed: I have never worked with OpenOCD, sorry Jul 09 17:08:49 i think there is a guide to replace the keyboard on the wiki Jul 09 17:08:57 pthorin: I'm confused - you ask if a hardware keyboard iwll work, then say you're thinking more of software... Jul 09 17:09:02 zash: cool, will check for it Jul 09 17:09:03 zash well supported linux webcam :P Jul 09 17:09:13 Dave: ok Jul 09 17:09:17 pthorin: The apps use normal keyboard input; the sw keyboards are responsible for looking like a normal keyboard Jul 09 17:09:17 looking for insight and advice :] Jul 09 17:09:31 the support doesn't need to be great Jul 09 17:09:37 just get images across the line ;) Jul 09 17:09:38 pthorin: Oh, by "real" you don't mean hardware Jul 09 17:09:50 though I fear explosions, compiling whatever driver I need for arm :P Jul 09 17:09:50 wurp2: oh, sorry you mistook "real" as hardware, I was meaning "full" or "software 105 keyboard" Jul 09 17:09:50 i need to steal back my webcam that my brother took Jul 09 17:09:51 pthorin: matchbox-keyboard, look at Switching_Keyboards on the wiki Jul 09 17:09:59 wurp2: will do Jul 09 17:10:30 pthorin: Yeah, I went back & read what you actually said after I griped because you confused me :-) Jul 09 17:11:40 pthorin: please let me know when you got it Jul 09 17:12:42 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Switching_Keyboards ow here it is Jul 09 17:12:55 This doesn't work on official OM 2007.2 repositories. bugger Jul 09 17:13:50 Haproli: It doesn't? It used to :-( Jul 09 17:13:52 What is missing? Jul 09 17:13:55 kids Jul 09 17:13:59 :| Jul 09 17:14:08 some help you are, zash :P Jul 09 17:14:13 wurp2 : no idea Jul 09 17:14:22 Haproli: What happens when you try it? Jul 09 17:14:30 wurp, it used to what? Jul 09 17:14:34 blah, haven't used IRC for months. forgot my nickserv p/w Jul 09 17:14:49 Are you alluding to the missing packages issue, with regards to Switching Keyboards? Jul 09 17:14:56 Chocky, haw. Jul 09 17:15:09 * Chocky looks like a noob Jul 09 17:15:13 trying right now Jul 09 17:15:24 There used to be a missing packages issue, but I thought I updated it since then with working instructions Jul 09 17:18:12 hmm Cannot find package matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod Jul 09 17:19:36 yeah they're not in any of the repos Jul 09 17:19:47 SEKRET PACKAGEZ Jul 09 17:20:02 lolz!1!, etc. Jul 09 17:20:10 Haproli: Did you try just matchbox-keyboard instead? Jul 09 17:20:12 Haproli: you can add Scaredycat's repo, and the method on Switching_Keyboards works Jul 09 17:20:15 I pimped goodwill to make them for me :P Jul 09 17:20:19 yeah Jul 09 17:20:22 wurp, fail. Jul 09 17:20:28 dammit. just ship my order already :-( Jul 09 17:20:31 stick it in your stash! Jul 09 17:20:35 Haproli: guide here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Repositories, just replace ipkg with opkg Jul 09 17:20:42 Haproli: It used to be that either the little sequence of matchbox-keyboard-* worked, or matchbox-keyboard worked, depending on repo Jul 09 17:20:45 thanks a lot Jul 09 17:20:57 Dave: FFTW Jul 09 17:20:57 the repos are in disarray Jul 09 17:20:59 mohamed: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Debug_Board_v2/Unbricking#Procedure shows the commands that you need to use for unbricking. The openocd command "reset halt" will halt the target Jul 09 17:21:02 I'm new with the openmoko Jul 09 17:21:03 heh Jul 09 17:21:08 * mmontour goes back to his meeting Jul 09 17:21:13 as you can gues Jul 09 17:21:15 s* Jul 09 17:21:35 mohamed: I'm glad that someone in Egypt has got the debug board so that I can fix my FR when it breaks :-p Jul 09 17:21:36 Haproli: But it may be that now there's just no recourse other than using ScaredyCat's repo, which I do anyway Jul 09 17:21:51 CVirus: You shouldn't need it for FR Jul 09 17:21:56 CVirus: NOR will take care of you Jul 09 17:22:04 hah! Jul 09 17:22:08 NOR ? Jul 09 17:22:12 CVirus: I hope I could manage to fix mine :D Jul 09 17:22:14 wurp, I had them built Jul 09 17:22:22 do you want me to upload them anywhere? Jul 09 17:22:42 the keyboard is really tiny... need to fix Jul 09 17:22:48 I think it's really annoying that no one can *simply* follow those instructions. Jul 09 17:22:52 pthorin, yeah it is! Jul 09 17:23:09 is the bluetooth in current ASU functional? Jul 09 17:23:09 Dave: It might be easier to just add instructions for adding ScaredyCat's repository to the page Jul 09 17:23:13 Should I delete the other repo's ? Jul 09 17:24:02 wurp2: NOR ? Jul 09 17:24:12 CVirus: FR has NAND and NOR Jul 09 17:24:22 Haproli: I didn't, and it worked for me, don't know what's the preferred way of doing it Jul 09 17:24:26 CVirus: You can resurrect your FR when NAND is busted from the NOR Jul 09 17:24:27 Is U-Boot through NOR Flash supposed to work? The instructions to get there don't seem to work for me. Jul 09 17:24:38 wurp2: wow ... cool Jul 09 17:24:48 * Chocky checks his mail every 5 mins for a tracking number :-( Jul 09 17:24:58 I can't reset and halt the CPU; reset halt doesn't produce any results and Target 0 halted is not a valid command :( Jul 09 17:25:18 algae: it works for me: hold in aux, then hold in power while still holding in aux until it boots Jul 09 17:25:35 Chocky: where did you order from? Jul 09 17:25:41 the store Jul 09 17:25:46 the main one. Jul 09 17:25:47 Chocky: oh, ok Jul 09 17:26:29 yes, and apart from that, our company is awaiting a shipment from Soekris, which is nearby. double frustration Jul 09 17:26:44 you can actually hit the keys with your fingers if you're reeeally careful Jul 09 17:26:56 and not ham fisted ;-) Jul 09 17:27:30 has anyone tried dasher on it? Jul 09 17:29:03 pthorin: i can press-hold aux then power for 20 seconds and more and afaict nothing happens. odd. Jul 09 17:29:13 howdy :) Jul 09 17:29:50 algae: strange, it takes just a few seconds for me (given that the phone is off) Jul 09 17:30:56 pthorin: yeah, and I don't know where to go from here since NOR flash is pretty much the most basic thing that must always work. Jul 09 17:31:54 algae: Is your FR plugged into a power source? Jul 09 17:32:08 wurp2|away: nope. Jul 09 17:32:17 algae: Maybe your battery is very dead? Jul 09 17:32:35 no, maybe it's the battery problem joerg lectured me about :p Jul 09 17:32:46 freerunner essentially sucks in every regard with respect to power :p Jul 09 17:32:47 wurp2|away: doubt it. should it work with the ac adapter plugged in? Jul 09 17:33:04 algae: I should think so Jul 09 17:33:05 sucks though for people that don't have another device or another battery Jul 09 17:33:12 though I heard the gta01's shipped with two Jul 09 17:33:19 Dave: Mine didn't Jul 09 17:33:25 away again for real Jul 09 17:33:34 heh Jul 09 17:33:43 Yeah, no more intellectual blasphemining for you :] Jul 09 17:33:49 wurp2|away: ping Jul 09 17:33:57 Oh well, we'll miss you wurp. Jul 09 17:33:59 Doc, don't be an ass ;) Jul 09 17:34:08 hahaha, >:) Jul 09 17:34:12 That's my job! Jul 09 17:34:19 (as an American) :p Jul 09 17:34:22 ;) Jul 09 17:34:24 he's probably looking at the screen right now :) Jul 09 17:34:27 laughing at us Jul 09 17:34:29 :( Jul 09 17:34:50 I hope so :D Jul 09 17:35:01 * Chocky points and laughs at the funny furriners Jul 09 17:35:10 hm.. seems bluetooth doesn't work on the ASU :( i don't have hci0 Jul 09 17:35:12 huhu Jul 09 17:35:17 eh ohs Jul 09 17:35:35 poor ecraven Jul 09 17:35:46 stricken down again, by underdeveloped software. Jul 09 17:35:58 strange though, the device should be here.. Jul 09 17:36:07 It's hiding from you! Jul 09 17:36:29 ecraven: Did you power on the BT module? Jul 09 17:36:29 so, do I need to port OpenOffice to FR? Jul 09 17:36:46 abraxa_: yes, manually *and* via /sys/../power_on Jul 09 17:37:06 maybe your image blows, and is missing the driver module? Jul 09 17:38:13 wurp2|away: plugged in power cable which booted the system; shutdown; pressed aux/power for half a minute; nothing happens Jul 09 17:38:54 * algae is apparently too dense to operate 2 buttons correctly Jul 09 17:42:49 heehee Jul 09 17:42:58 fine, I won't then : Jul 09 17:43:02 :p Jul 09 17:43:17 algae was it fully able to boot, or did it power off before it got a chance to finish booting? Jul 09 17:43:41 'reset halt' doesn't halt the device any help ? Jul 09 17:43:54 Hmm... What does it mean when dfu-util tells me 'No such Alternate Setting: "kernel"'? Jul 09 17:44:19 Dave: booted fully; i skipped entering the PIN and pressed power to select "shutdown now" from the menu Jul 09 17:45:38 btw, are U-Boot pictures in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner correct? Because the NAND boot menu (which I can get to) looks very different here. Jul 09 17:46:11 i've a feeling they're a bit old :) Jul 09 17:46:39 out of date documentation? naw, would never happen Jul 09 17:46:52 For instance, the menu I'm seeing has got "set console to USB" and "set console to serial" (each entry twice(!)). Jul 09 17:48:13 Indeed, the image that the freerunner ships with seems to have that (mine does as well :) ) Jul 09 17:50:40 out to test the gps a bit Jul 09 17:51:12 Oh, and if I select "Boot from microSD", I get an error (unsurprisingly) followed by the return of the NAND boot menu, but now other entries (like "Power off") stop working. I need to fully boot the system and shut it down again to get a working NAND menu. Minor issue though, compared to NOR menu not coming up ever. Jul 09 17:52:25 algae: i tried a few hours yesterday, and couldn't get it working at all Jul 09 17:52:53 algae: How's the NOR menu supposed to come up anyway? Seems like it's not documented on the wiki yet Jul 09 17:53:23 is there a url to look up the status of an order? Jul 09 17:53:29 ecraven: yay, i'm not the only one. Jul 09 17:54:51 abraxa_: there are at least 2 descriptions in the wiki, one @ Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner and one @ U-Boot_Test_Cases (see Test Case #8). Jul 09 17:55:09 algae: unfortunately ;( Jul 09 17:56:04 algae: Ah, thanks. I never visited that page before and the search for NOR didn't come up with it Jul 09 17:56:16 The descriptions could be better written but apparently it did work for pthorin whose instructions above are: "hold in aux, then hold in power while still holding in aux until it boots" Jul 09 17:57:57 algae: Oh, interesting. So I've always booted into NOR, not NAND u-boot. Jul 09 17:58:06 what port does pand try to bind? Jul 09 17:59:02 abraxa_: I would assume that the boot menu title indicates what you get. the one i get to says "BOOT MENU (NAND)" Jul 09 17:59:35 algae: I never paid attention to that detail, honestly. And both NOR and NAND u-boots work just fine for me Jul 09 18:00:32 macdonalder: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080709.wgtiphone0709/BNStory/Technology/home?cid=al_gam_mostemail Jul 09 18:00:38 anyone else in canada ^ Jul 09 18:01:52 iphone. fnar Jul 09 18:02:37 "with a 3G phone" - FR missing out ;-) Jul 09 18:02:42 Chocky: not the point, it also covers other handsets too :) Jul 09 18:02:49 I know, the story isn't well written Jul 09 18:02:58 Chocky: the plan might also work with the FR though, right? Jul 09 18:03:01 more free hype for Apple Jul 09 18:03:08 would expect so Jul 09 18:03:13 * Chocky not in Canadia Jul 09 18:03:50 has anyone successfully used pand and bluetooth to connect to his fr? Jul 09 18:06:18 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07python-helpers * rb182d8438166 10/mickeydbus/mdbus: mickeydbus: add listener mode Jul 09 18:06:22 pand? Jul 09 18:07:23 panda? :D Jul 09 18:07:31 kung fu? Jul 09 18:07:44 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rf1dcbb2a2691 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/channel.py: ogsmd: refactor ogsmd.gsm.channel and fully document Jul 09 18:07:45 chicken chow mein? Jul 09 18:08:24 turkey teriayki? Jul 09 18:09:52 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rf1dcbb2a2691 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/channel.py: ogsmd: refactor ogsmd.gsm.channel and fully document Jul 09 18:09:53 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rdb85bb394837 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Jul 09 18:09:53 freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: SIM.GetMessagebookInfo: don't try to parse a result if we got an error Jul 09 18:09:53 freesmartphone.org: [OPENEZX] remove low level init and add custom mediator for SIM.SendAuthCode Jul 09 18:09:55 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rad351e9f8cd0 10/ (5 files in 4 dirs): update ChangeLog Jul 09 18:09:58 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r2dac8dc5caf3 10/ (12 files in 6 dirs): clean up Jul 09 18:10:11 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rdb85bb394837 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Jul 09 18:10:11 freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: SIM.GetMessagebookInfo: don't try to parse a result if we got an error Jul 09 18:10:11 freesmartphone.org: [OPENEZX] remove low level init and add custom mediator for SIM.SendAuthCode Jul 09 18:10:14 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rad351e9f8cd0 10/ (5 files in 4 dirs): update ChangeLog Jul 09 18:10:23 spamtastic Jul 09 18:11:38 more on-topic than lunch menus! Jul 09 18:11:55 why? That has spam on it too. Jul 09 18:13:04 kekeke Jul 09 18:13:22 mwester, hey now! Jul 09 18:13:39 There's nothing wrong with delicious conversation :D Jul 09 18:13:44 especially around lunchtime ;) Jul 09 18:13:50 please stop talking about food :( Jul 09 18:14:07 FoodRunner Jul 09 18:14:17 no fair! Jul 09 18:14:28 BLOODRUNNER :O Jul 09 18:14:32 doc's employer has found a new motivator? no food until the project is completed! Jul 09 18:14:35 aww, poor doc Jul 09 18:14:40 excellent! Jul 09 18:15:03 freehunger here :< Jul 09 18:15:24 OpenMcMoko Jul 09 18:15:47 hehe! Jul 09 18:16:59 mwester: hah, i'd not lived to see completion if that were the case :) Jul 09 18:17:01 :( Jul 09 18:18:05 haha Jul 09 18:18:11 * Dave high-fives Chocky Jul 09 18:18:35 * Chocky takes Dave's FR, and runs away, manically Jul 09 18:20:25 :O Jul 09 18:20:27 meh, that's okay Jul 09 18:20:34 I have a bunch more Jul 09 18:20:38 sweet Jul 09 18:20:43 * nuclear_eclipse is jealous of Dave Jul 09 18:21:44 * Chocky still checking email for tracking number :-( Jul 09 18:22:57 hell. why is is still 11.22? Jul 09 18:23:04 I get my hopes up every time the tray icon says Thunderbird has new messages, and then cry every time I check and only find spam or mailing list entries... :( Jul 09 18:23:21 mailing list was too heavy. only read the archives now. Jul 09 18:23:34 same here Jul 09 18:24:06 filters++ Jul 09 18:24:29 the constant wave after wave of the same questions/topics over and over again is what's frustrating me Jul 09 18:24:46 doc|home: yeah, I know, but I read mail in 3 different places with different clients. Jul 09 18:24:53 yeah, to be expected though. Expect the same here once the mass start being delivered Jul 09 18:25:00 yeah Jul 09 18:25:15 Chocky: same :/ Jul 09 18:25:27 Chocky: just means you need to move filters to the mailserver Jul 09 18:25:33 Chocky: freerunner might be enough to sort out a centralised imap setup Jul 09 18:25:34 I am on a bunch of mailing lists, and those get filtered at home, but they're all low volume Jul 09 18:25:44 exactly Jul 09 18:26:24 yep, I have a bunch of Sieve filters set up, but Thunderbird doesn't care what folder it's in when it pops up the tray icon... =\ Jul 09 18:26:52 anyway, I don't need to post to the list, so I'm not at any real loss Jul 09 18:27:21 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r3cb38cc14370 10/tools/cli-framework: tools: spice up the interactive console Jul 09 18:27:39 cb22: the picture was made with OmniGraffle Jul 09 18:27:51 (which is unfortunately not open source, but it's real good) Jul 09 18:28:02 this was kind of interesting to me: Jul 09 18:28:05 http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/open-moko-software.ars Jul 09 18:28:18 I hadn't had the big picture of the various stacks Jul 09 18:29:32 good article Jul 09 18:31:28 someone should put up a feature comparison of the different images on the wiki Jul 09 18:31:39 I'd do it but don't have a device to play with yet :) Jul 09 18:34:29 doc|work: excuses :P Jul 09 18:34:42 a little :) Jul 09 18:36:10 Yaay! It's booting (yes, lovely pun, raster, i approve ;) ) Jul 09 18:36:29 leinir: stop bragging :P Jul 09 18:36:48 nuclear_eclipse: i spent the entire day getting this thing to load ASU, i finally managed ;) Jul 09 18:37:00 congrats Jul 09 18:37:09 have you happened to try FSO at all? Jul 09 18:37:36 ernst3: http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/index.php/id;1584423557;fp;2;fpid;1 Jul 09 18:37:40 gah Jul 09 18:37:51 anyway, 900 was never on sale via store Jul 09 18:38:22 I'm wanting to replace my crap RAZR with my FR when it arrives, so I'm tempted to try dual-booting FSO + some other stack, since some people say FSO is the most stable/usable for phone stuffs Jul 09 18:38:23 nuclear_eclipse: i've not, no :) Jul 09 18:38:44 wife has Razr that is falling apart Jul 09 18:38:53 Gah, i can't enter numbers on the keypad *giggles* i can't switch views :) Jul 09 18:39:25 Chocky: mine just randomly shuts off without any notice, and it's really pissing me off Jul 09 18:39:43 especially since I've been relying on it to be my alarm clock... Jul 09 18:40:08 nuclear_eclipse: dual booting, nice idea Jul 09 18:40:46 I like how OSNews is even slower with stories than slashdot. Jul 09 18:40:53 doc|work: I just want to make sure I have a dependable way to make calls when I'm not goofing off on it :P Jul 09 18:40:56 http://osnews.com/story/20010/Linux_Based_Smartphone_FreeRunner Jul 09 18:41:51 nuclear_eclipse: aye Jul 09 18:45:18 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rc510fd0e4037 10/tools/cli-framework: Jul 09 18:45:18 freesmartphone.org: tools: restore cli-framework to not showing signals. Jul 09 18:45:18 freesmartphone.org: We will have to rewrite the interactive console to make it safe. Jul 09 18:47:04 ugh. someone got a tracking number Jul 09 18:47:08 But apart from that, it's quite nifty :) Jul 09 18:47:16 number 1087. I'm 1345 Jul 09 18:47:51 Me didn't know daily builds where so stable, and full of apps Jul 09 18:47:58 likeit Jul 09 18:48:55 * SpeedEvil ponders builds full of apes. Jul 09 18:49:37 yes, but can your apes do this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy52yueBX_s Jul 09 18:51:59 abraxa_: wow, I've unbricked my device :) thank you so much Jul 09 18:52:21 mohamed: Glad you got it working Jul 09 18:52:40 CVirus: now I can tell you feel free to brick your free runner :D Jul 09 18:53:02 yo Jul 09 18:53:08 Not sure who maintains the http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner page Jul 09 18:53:27 Whoever hates it enough Jul 09 18:53:30 Typo on the "Log into U-Boot in the NOR Flash" section Jul 09 18:53:54 * SpeedEvil points to the 'register' button on the wiki. Jul 09 18:54:22 * Atava retreats Jul 09 18:54:47 telt. Jul 09 18:57:12 no satellites after one hour :( Jul 09 18:57:50 i want me freerunner Jul 09 18:58:01 what order number? Jul 09 18:58:02 mohamed: haha ... cool :-D Jul 09 18:58:08 2039 Jul 09 18:58:10 pthorin: from outside? Jul 09 18:58:19 heh. that's way down the list :p Jul 09 18:58:25 yup Jul 09 18:58:36 ordered the 4th Jul 09 18:58:38 SpeedEvil: for 40 minutes at least Jul 09 18:58:39 I assume they started at 1000 Jul 09 18:58:45 pthorin: :) Jul 09 18:58:49 s/)/(/ Jul 09 18:58:49 SpeedEvil meant: pthorin: :( Jul 09 18:59:04 I ordered 8.30am on the 3rd. would have been 7am, but had to get to work and call CC company Jul 09 18:59:27 no track #'s yet? Jul 09 18:59:31 is there any information somewhere on what kinds of external antennas one can use? Jul 09 18:59:34 just one guy on the mailing list Jul 09 18:59:39 Is there a long backorder queue? Jul 09 18:59:43 usa? Jul 09 19:00:06 guess so. order 1087 Jul 09 19:00:28 cool Jul 09 19:00:30 Lynet: they shipped around about number 1100 yesterday and I placed an order about 15 hours ago which was number 3032 or something Jul 09 19:00:35 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/021042.html Jul 09 19:00:57 doc|work 3032 - oh dear ;-) Jul 09 19:01:01 well, means there are lots of users Jul 09 19:01:03 almost selling like hotcakes Jul 09 19:01:30 Chocky: yeah Jul 09 19:01:44 they only started yesterday though, right? Jul 09 19:01:48 seems so Jul 09 19:01:57 then they're doing about 1000 per day Jul 09 19:02:06 although that'll increase once they get into the flow of things Jul 09 19:02:08 I just realized that I'm on a kernel I built for my FSO install Jul 09 19:02:11 so, if we assume 50 or so 10-packs, that's about 3000 devices from US so far Jul 09 19:02:22 Chocky: I'd expect higher than that Jul 09 19:02:28 plus the European and India ones Jul 09 19:02:36 yup Jul 09 19:02:38 So my statement about a bug FSO milestone 1 re: missed call may be BS Jul 09 19:02:48 s/bug /bug in/ Jul 09 19:02:50 wurp2 meant: So my statement about a bug inFSO milestone 1 re: missed call may be BS Jul 09 19:04:42 Woopsie - without being able to change layouts on the ASU onscreen keyboard, i can't type in the SIM PIN ;) Jul 09 19:04:53 maybe they're only shipping 100/day :p Jul 09 19:05:47 Greetings, leinir :] Jul 09 19:05:57 Welcome back, Wurp. Jul 09 19:06:10 Hehe :) Jul 09 19:06:27 Chocky: I'd cry if it was only 100/day... Jul 09 19:06:46 <- 1324 Jul 09 19:07:04 what time did you order? Jul 09 19:07:14 early on the 3rd Jul 09 19:07:21 about 9:30 EST Jul 09 19:07:23 iirc Jul 09 19:07:35 no track # yet? Jul 09 19:07:35 so about 6.30am Jul 09 19:07:45 not for me Jul 09 19:07:49 I didn't order for 2 hours later, and got 1345 Jul 09 19:08:15 hmm, maybe it was later than 9:30, I don't remember; I was too excited that I got to order it :P Jul 09 19:08:15 Chocky: don't even joke :( Jul 09 19:08:24 hm, ok Jul 09 19:08:57 and when my 10 pack comes, I get to send one "back" to San Francisco Jul 09 19:09:04 To me? Jul 09 19:09:06 http://www.techtree.com/India/News/Samsung_Readies_8GB_microSD_Card/551-81172-581.html Jul 09 19:09:12 * Atava drives down to SF Jul 09 19:09:15 is that what we need? Jul 09 19:09:15 heh Jul 09 19:09:20 Down? Jul 09 19:09:25 SF is up. Jul 09 19:09:29 linuxxr, would presumably work, yes Jul 09 19:09:32 I'm on a hill across on the east bay Jul 09 19:09:36 So I look down at SF :D Jul 09 19:09:37 Dave: yes, SF is up. everyone knows that. Jul 09 19:09:39 Ah :P Jul 09 19:09:43 preetty sneeaaky :p Jul 09 19:09:49 Bay Area \o/ Jul 09 19:09:51 \o/ Jul 09 19:09:58 Castro Valley Jul 09 19:10:00 That's what's up, yo. Jul 09 19:10:04 hell yeah Castro Jul 09 19:10:10 except, not so much so, the valley :p Jul 09 19:10:17 "which it says, is optimal for today's multimedia mobile phones. " Jul 09 19:10:19 linuxxr: Sandisk 8GB cards have been available for a long time, if you're looking to buy one. Jul 09 19:10:20 Castro (in MV) :P Jul 09 19:10:24 what's "optimal" about it? :) Jul 09 19:10:36 I'd need 5 of them of all of my music Jul 09 19:10:38 doc|work: existing Jul 09 19:10:44 doc, weak. Jul 09 19:10:46 ook Jul 09 19:10:56 it wouldn't be very optimal if it didn't exist Jul 09 19:11:01 I'd need 25 for all my music -_- Jul 09 19:11:03 anyone with an order number > 1087 get a ups tracking number? Jul 09 19:11:05 Qwell: sure, but what's optimal about it? Jul 09 19:11:12 it's own existance. Jul 09 19:11:15 existence too Jul 09 19:11:19 its, too Jul 09 19:11:21 doc, I think the optimality is referring to the small physical size of the microSD Jul 09 19:11:28 oh cool. then I am the optimal human. win for me! Jul 09 19:11:29 and frankly, make that much smaller and you' Jul 09 19:11:29 Chocky: quiet you Jul 09 19:11:33 aw. Jul 09 19:11:33 've got problems Jul 09 19:11:38 :D Jul 09 19:11:38 pthorin: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS_Problems Jul 09 19:11:42 * Dave high-fives Qwell Jul 09 19:11:46 mjr: aren't all micro sd cards the same size? :) Jul 09 19:11:47 hooray Jul 09 19:11:55 sounds like a flood/rant to me :D Jul 09 19:12:03 Where do I sign up? Jul 09 19:12:05 doc|work, it doesn't claim they aren't :] Jul 09 19:12:18 * doc|work thinks someone in their pr firm needs a smack Jul 09 19:12:21 pthorin: a basic table to report GPS problems, and to work out if anyone figures out a solution. Jul 09 19:12:25 or at the least, a thesaurus Jul 09 19:12:31 pthorin: dealextreme.com has a working GPS antenna. Jul 09 19:12:33 doc|work, or at techtree Jul 09 19:12:44 hm Jul 09 19:12:54 Wonder when anandtech is going to do a FreeRunner review Jul 09 19:13:05 mjr: maybe Jul 09 19:13:07 REQUEST FOR CLARIFICATION. Jul 09 19:13:13 DENIED. Jul 09 19:13:21 You may want to clarify, "with the GPS antenna pointed up" Jul 09 19:13:33 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r7446617238ef 10/packages/qtopia-phone/qtopia-phone-x11_git.bb: [qtopia] Disable parallel make for Qtopia, it is breaking... Jul 09 19:13:34 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rff0bb4f1abf6 10/packages/initscripts/initscripts-1.0/openmoko/bootmisc.sh: [initscripts] Fork the bootmisc.sh for Openmoko Jul 09 19:13:34 Even I was initially bewildered. Jul 09 19:13:34 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r35cd401f24e6 10/packages/initscripts/ (initscripts-1.0/bootmisc.sh initscripts_1.0.bb): [initscripts] Remove ldconfig call from the initscript to gain a speed increase Jul 09 19:13:35 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * raab552bd77fe 10/packages/glibc/ (5 files in 3 dirs): [glibc] Split ld.so.conf up to allow to install other paths by other packages Jul 09 19:13:35 It's a piece of news. Granted, probably mostly cut and pasted from Samsung's press releases, but the formulations are such that they've done a bit of work on it, and the resulting awkward sentence structure may be well from that Jul 09 19:13:38 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r38d866d4f254 10/packages/qtopia-phone/qtopia-phone-x11_git.bb: [qtopia] Install a hint for ldconfig to find the Qtopia directory Jul 09 19:13:48 omg cvsrush Jul 09 19:13:53 kekeke Jul 09 19:14:11 pwnies Jul 09 19:14:43 Speedevil, isn't the antenna connector below and adjacent to the SIM card slot for the wifi? Jul 09 19:14:45 mjr: yeah, might be that Jul 09 19:14:57 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rf829b9992d80 10/packages/qtopia-phone/qtopia-phone-x11_git.bb: [qtopia] Disable parallel make for Qtopia, it is breaking... Jul 09 19:15:31 Daviey: yes Jul 09 19:15:39 Dave: err - no\ Jul 09 19:15:52 What? Jul 09 19:15:57 save: that's the GSM. The GPS antenna is on the side of the case. Jul 09 19:16:05 I am aware. Jul 09 19:16:32 So that antenna connector inside next to the aforementioned is for gsm? Jul 09 19:16:42 save: yes. Jul 09 19:16:47 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r40ead59c0b22 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [splinter] Bump up the reversion of Splinter to 462 Jul 09 19:16:48 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r62fe20fa7b8a 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [assassin] Bump up the reversion of assassin to 193 Jul 09 19:16:48 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rddfce03ac9f3 10/packages/efl1/edbus_cvs.bb: [efl] Remove entry edbus_edbus in PACKAGES of edbus_cvs.bb Jul 09 19:18:21 Okay Jul 09 19:18:35 Is there a similar internal antenna connector for wifi? Jul 09 19:18:44 nope Jul 09 19:18:46 Not as far as I know Jul 09 19:18:49 When will available GSM900 model from store? Jul 09 19:18:54 (Forgive me if I am not intimately familiar with the internal designs) :) Jul 09 19:18:55 few weeks Jul 09 19:19:03 weeks? Jul 09 19:19:06 aw Jul 09 19:19:11 Speedevil, so it is integrated then? Jul 09 19:19:14 that's what I remember being said Jul 09 19:19:20 Dave: yes Jul 09 19:19:24 Dave: it's a little module. Jul 09 19:19:30 Dave: with integrated antenna Jul 09 19:19:38 Fremont pickup: Jul 09 19:19:39 is there any qtopia or scardycat images for neo 1973 ? Jul 09 19:19:39 that's a shame Jul 09 19:19:39 oh and thanks for clarifying that part of the wiki page :p Jul 09 19:19:47 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/021051.html Jul 09 19:19:49 mohamed: yes Jul 09 19:19:50 yeah which would explain it's weakness :p Jul 09 19:20:06 Hah, why DON'T I have a wiki account yet? :] Jul 09 19:20:06 mohamed: I was running a scaredycat image on the 1973 now. Jul 09 19:20:22 Daviey: you have not passed the full cavity search yet? Jul 09 19:20:28 SpeedEvil: I can't find those images could you please send me a link ? Jul 09 19:20:28 uh oh Jul 09 19:20:34 Is that required? :p Jul 09 19:20:39 mohamed: no. Jul 09 19:20:42 ah yes, 900: Jul 09 19:20:44 REALLY now :P Jul 09 19:20:46 mohamed: I don't remember where I got it. Jul 09 19:20:47 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/020981.html Jul 09 19:21:09 SpeedEvil: ah, thanks! Jul 09 19:21:48 more posts from Steve. sez tracking numbers as they ship. not news really ;-) Jul 09 19:22:20 keke. Jul 09 19:22:39 Does nobody proof read -_- Jul 09 19:22:44 "900Mhz variant stock is due on on july 15th" Jul 09 19:22:44 no one. Jul 09 19:23:07 nope Jul 09 19:23:12 fail. Jul 09 19:23:22 waht iss this profreedign yuo spek off? Jul 09 19:23:32 -_- Jul 09 19:23:42 how can i change the time before the screen lock kicks in? Jul 09 19:24:04 ecraven: write an app to constantly set the clock back? ;) Jul 09 19:24:49 why should u have to continually set the clock back? Jul 09 19:24:56 it was a joke Jul 09 19:25:02 ha Jul 09 19:25:05 <- sarcastic asshole Jul 09 19:25:18 * Chocky high-fives nuclear Jul 09 19:27:38 Have edited the GPS_Problems now Jul 09 19:28:26 well, my Soekris shipment mysteriously turned up Jul 09 19:28:38 nuclear wessels? Jul 09 19:28:56 it's at Alameda Jul 09 19:29:10 Where are the various ml's enumerated? Jul 09 19:29:38 http://lists.openmoko.org/ Jul 09 19:30:23 dave lists.openmoko.org Jul 09 19:31:11 Atava that information got added by me this morning;) Jul 09 19:31:15 ecraven: http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/daemons/neod/src/buttonactions.c - hardcoded... (see line 1001+) Jul 09 19:31:22 Atava after steve asked for help about that ;) Jul 09 19:32:23 abraxa_: thanks Jul 09 19:32:29 we should really get rid of neod... Jul 09 19:32:32 SpeedEvil: did you try the AGPS test gui? Jul 09 19:33:25 pthorin: I have no freerunner Jul 09 19:33:30 oh, I see Jul 09 19:33:42 but shouldn't I get some reading for the signal strength? Jul 09 19:33:48 or is that only when I have a fix? Jul 09 19:33:50 ecraven: It's just a collection of random hacks, yeah. Something proper would be nice, however FSO will spread those tasks out into several deamons, so only the folks who want to not rely on those need neod Jul 09 19:33:51 Not if there is no signal Jul 09 19:34:17 pthorin: it seems the only thing that works without a fix is the time Jul 09 19:34:38 ecraven: yes, that I got working earlier Jul 09 19:35:36 pthorin: me, still not :( Jul 09 19:35:54 ecraven: even outside? Jul 09 19:37:33 pthorin: yes, but i only tried for 5 minutes or so Jul 09 19:37:43 though without any trees or houses within 100m, blue sky.. Jul 09 19:38:29 ecraven: yeah, blue sky for me too, I think I got the time fairly quickly Jul 09 19:38:37 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rd25a34e6b93b 10/ (5 files in 4 dirs): update illume to use new ompower and new bindings and actions for shutdown Jul 09 19:38:38 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r6cc4c3a5e926 10/ (25 files in 13 dirs): Merge branch 'org.openmoko.asu.dev' of git+ssh://git@git.openmoko.org/var/cache/git/openmoko into org.openmoko.asu.dev Jul 09 19:39:26 pthorin: i'll try again tomorrow, or this weekend Jul 09 19:39:33 no open space at work :( Jul 09 19:43:30 ecraven: would be great if you could put stuff up at GPS_Problems and/or at GPS on the wiki Jul 09 19:43:39 Where is the internal GPS connector? Jul 09 19:46:22 aww Jul 09 19:46:27 pthorin: will do :) Jul 09 19:46:29 I could post a boatload of gps issues :) Jul 09 19:46:34 or faqs Jul 09 19:46:43 i want to put up all my experiences with the FR, but i'm not sure ASU is the best platform for testing Jul 09 19:46:47 Can anyone confirm for me that inputting numbers (that is, switching from letter to number input) in ASU 20080709 does not work? :) Jul 09 19:46:52 i'll give FSO a try tomorrow, maybe Jul 09 19:47:06 leinir: i tried, it seems to work sometimes, and sometimes not Jul 09 19:47:24 Hmm... i shall have to try again, then :) Jul 09 19:48:19 ecraven, what about gtk? :p Jul 09 19:48:36 Dave: i guess first the basic things have to work, then the gui Jul 09 19:48:36 leinir, with which keyboard? Jul 09 19:48:43 yep Jul 09 19:48:58 Sorry, I was referring to the om-devel image :p Jul 09 19:49:08 which seems to work [better] Jul 09 19:49:20 leinir: works just fine Jul 09 19:49:42 . entering words and numbers right now Jul 09 19:49:44 there's just one thing to say. Jul 09 19:49:46 moose! Jul 09 19:50:00 mmmmoose Jul 09 19:50:05 uggh, subscribing to mailing lists... Jul 09 19:50:11 Dave: dangerous Jul 09 19:50:15 who knew it would be so difficult... Jul 09 19:50:24 just use the archive, Luke Jul 09 19:50:28 Chocky, DANGER WILL ROBINSON! Jul 09 19:50:49 is that like Will Call? Jul 09 19:51:41 is there a way to get matchbox-stroke work like the multitap-pad? to disappear and appear only when needed? Jul 09 19:52:00 I wish Jul 09 19:52:11 it seems to have a mind of its own sometimes, right ecraven? ;D Jul 09 19:52:25 i started it, and it just stayed on the bottom, no way to make it disappear Jul 09 19:52:32 hah Jul 09 19:52:41 I accidentally got it to stick to the top of the screen yesterday Jul 09 19:52:50 Right... how is one supposed to make the number pad appear? Jul 09 19:52:54 not only that, it was persisitent across all applications, even on the home menu and clock Jul 09 19:52:58 fun. Jul 09 19:53:00 haha Jul 09 19:53:08 leinir, numberpad? Jul 09 19:53:13 It just happened by accident, and i have NO idea how it happened Jul 09 19:53:16 Are you referring to the multitap-pad? Jul 09 19:53:26 you likely selected a text field Jul 09 19:53:29 (input field) Jul 09 19:53:49 try the terminal app or to a much lesser extent, the browser :p Jul 09 19:54:03 Dave: ASU stack :) Jul 09 19:54:04 Dave: i never got the multitap-pad in the browser Jul 09 19:54:56 well you CAN for entering addresses, but never for filling out fields in a webpage (which is really what you want) :D Jul 09 19:55:03 leinir: you mean switch from letters to numbers? Jul 09 19:55:04 silly counterintuitive software :D Jul 09 19:55:10 raster: Yes :) Jul 09 19:55:11 ormake they keyboard appear at all? Jul 09 19:55:14 leinir, press shift? or * ? Jul 09 19:55:24 Dave: no - asu. Jul 09 19:55:33 okay? Jul 09 19:55:36 leinir: slide your finger "up" on the kbd Jul 09 19:55:39 raster: Switch from letters to numbers :) Jul 09 19:55:41 so press buttons, make things happen Jul 09 19:55:44 that switches keyboard layouts Jul 09 19:55:50 Right... i'll give that one a shot :) Jul 09 19:55:54 slide right for "space/next wird" Jul 09 19:55:59 go buy an iphone, see what works Jul 09 19:56:02 slide down for "enter/return" Jul 09 19:56:06 slide left for backspace Jul 09 19:57:31 Yeah, i found out about the left, right and down :) For some reason i didn't get up... let's see if i can't make it work now ;) Jul 09 19:57:58 Yeah, there we go... Not exactly discoverable much, but works nicely once you learn it :) Jul 09 19:57:59 * Chocky decides no tracking number is coming today, and does some work Jul 09 19:59:31 All connected up and stuff ;) Jul 09 19:59:46 are people using milestone 1 of FSO? or something more up-to-date Jul 09 20:00:31 i cant find where it says what voltage the device is Jul 09 20:00:38 I've added a link fro GPS_Problems to Neo1973_Dissasembly at the appropriate point to illustrate the internal GPS connection. Can anyone verigy they are similar, or better, show pics. Jul 09 20:00:50 linuxxr: wha device? Jul 09 20:01:40 leinir: dont look at me - i didnt design the interaction. it was requested. i personally think the usability is hard to figure out without a manual. it's not obvious - but its a direct copy of the qtopia keyboard - EXCEPT i made down be enter/rturn. the qtopia kbd has down/up only flip layouts/modes. Jul 09 20:01:59 freerunner Jul 09 20:02:46 linuxxr: it runs on USB - so 5V Jul 09 20:02:55 linuxxr: the battery is one Li-uion cell Jul 09 20:03:03 linuxxr: so 3.0-4.2V or so. Jul 09 20:03:36 SpeedEvil, can you be sure it doesn't change the voltage somewhere in the middle? ;) Jul 09 20:03:41 raster: i absolutely agree :) Not too clever a decision... Jul 09 20:03:53 TAsn: yes, there are eleventy-billion little voltage rails. Jul 09 20:03:55 overall once u work it out Jul 09 20:03:58 its rather nice Jul 09 20:04:07 with a bigger dictionary.. it's very usable Jul 09 20:04:11 even with fingers Jul 09 20:04:15 TAsn: Probably fewer than a dozen. Jul 09 20:04:17 i know it has bugs Jul 09 20:04:21 i need to fix them Jul 09 20:04:26 but i'm eternally busy Jul 09 20:04:27 Great for poweruserey type things, but a simpler user type thing like a popup menu to select them (like, say, use that big empty area in the lower left corner) might be good :) Jul 09 20:04:46 5V power user? Jul 09 20:04:48 you could use the same popup for selecting input language :) Jul 09 20:04:55 Chocky: Nah, 12V ;) Jul 09 20:05:44 SpeedEvil: http://abraxa.dyndns.org:81/random/TE7O1104_R01_CNS13438_FIC_GTA02.pdf has nice PCB pictures Jul 09 20:05:53 36 volts Jul 09 20:06:30 Eww - pdf Jul 09 20:06:41 haha Jul 09 20:07:02 Agreed. Jul 09 20:07:07 SpeedEvil: Not my choice :) Jul 09 20:10:00 oh, pthorin I have experienced the same thing as you Jul 09 20:10:01 hey guys what image are you running right now? Jul 09 20:10:03 it's really strange Jul 09 20:10:25 is that the 3.7v li-Ion Jul 09 20:11:02 I'll have five GTA02's running identical stuff, except ONE of them, no matter the conditions, it will never get a gps fix (while the others will get one, and usually quite expediently), this one will never get a fix and just spits out crap like that 99 99 9999 Jul 09 20:11:07 leinir: i can do a lot of things with the kbd Jul 09 20:11:08 i want to Jul 09 20:11:10 but short on time Jul 09 20:11:13 and a lot of thngs to do Jul 09 20:11:15 right now itworks Jul 09 20:11:22 enouhg to enter text for messages, contacts etc. Jul 09 20:11:23 the shitty part is that one WORKED at one time Jul 09 20:11:33 so I figure perhaps it broke, or software broke it or something :P Jul 09 20:11:53 raster: *nods* True, true :) The linux way - we can get to the pretty later on, for now effort is needed elsewhere :) Jul 09 20:11:57 u mean the hardware is broke? Jul 09 20:12:15 Daviey: have you tried replugging the GPS antenna? Jul 09 20:12:17 dave: Jul 09 20:12:21 loike better reliable and consistent and "correct" suspend.resume Jul 09 20:12:32 Speedevil, inside? Jul 09 20:12:34 that wont chew your batteries and turn backlights on when u dont need them etc. Jul 09 20:12:36 Dave: yes Jul 09 20:12:39 Speedevil, I've even tried using an external one! Jul 09 20:12:50 Dave:P and see if it's pinched or anything on assembly? Jul 09 20:12:50 i need to speed up exquisite (gui bootsplash thing) Jul 09 20:12:50 though I never tried anything inside... yet Jul 09 20:13:04 and look at optimising e's startup a bit Jul 09 20:13:18 ned to look at etk's momentum handler for finger scroll Jul 09 20:13:18 Speedevil, but would that account for why it worked initially, and subsequently after the first time, it has not since. Jul 09 20:13:31 it seems trigger-happy in deciding u "flicked"a list somewhere Jul 09 20:13:36 blah blah... Jul 09 20:13:37 lots Jul 09 20:13:37 Dave: I dunno Jul 09 20:13:39 I guess there is just too much speculation on my part, there, and I may want to investigate it. Jul 09 20:13:53 Dave: if it' was barely pluged on. Jul 09 20:14:02 * Dave throws his black sheep freerunner at Speedevil Jul 09 20:14:05 fine, you fix it! Jul 09 20:14:07 :) Jul 09 20:14:17 Dave: Mail me. Jul 09 20:14:21 antenea wire broke off Jul 09 20:14:34 The alternative would be another issue with the GPS signal switch. Jul 09 20:14:47 pinched in the case Jul 09 20:14:50 Dave: you haven't been playing tennis or something with it"? Jul 09 20:14:59 uhh, not yet, anyway :D Jul 09 20:15:26 speedevil, so do you suggest I open it up and take a looksie Jul 09 20:15:38 I should probably check out the internal layout now anyway Jul 09 20:15:42 straight from the factory stuff Jul 09 20:16:17 Oh, and thanks for that chinese pdf, whoever you were. Jul 09 20:16:48 Dave: yes Jul 09 20:16:56 Dave: it was abraxa_. Jul 09 20:17:27 Dave: the 'dead' one doesn't work with the external antenna? Jul 09 20:17:36 Oh, so the GPS antenna is located on the very "top" of the device... Jul 09 20:17:42 Dave: yes Jul 09 20:17:48 Speedevil, nope, it wasn't, anyway. Jul 09 20:18:03 wasn't? Jul 09 20:18:11 Yep, last I tried it with one Jul 09 20:18:36 I've had the "bad one" connected up to a large gps antenna when I do gps tests now, in the hopes it will work. Jul 09 20:18:40 Alas Jul 09 20:18:47 whats with the huge blocks of wood Jul 09 20:18:48 even with the huge boost it gets, still nothing Jul 09 20:18:54 haha yeah, I noticed that too, lunuxxr Jul 09 20:18:54 :p Jul 09 20:19:12 an thats some reel 21st century mnfg. there Jul 09 20:19:17 Huce blocks of wood are traditional in electronics construction. Jul 09 20:19:18 I was thinking... Hmm, so the Chinese's idea of a cleanroom, is testing in a log cabin? :D Jul 09 20:19:21 made in China? Jul 09 20:19:33 Of course! Jul 09 20:19:39 What children do it better? ;D Jul 09 20:19:49 * benlake chuckles Jul 09 20:19:50 eh, maybe koreans, nowadays, actually. Jul 09 20:19:50 thats what they do with all thast red oak they buy Jul 09 20:20:05 I hear they feed them slightly more rice per pcb printout :p Jul 09 20:20:06 SpeedEvil: that explains why sometimes, they wooden go. Jul 09 20:20:07 Wood - bare wood - is actually a just fine assembly surface. Jul 09 20:20:24 It's antistatic, non-slip, heat resistant. Jul 09 20:20:26 Chocky, oh god, that's terrible! Jul 09 20:20:32 :P Jul 09 20:20:38 * Chocky high fives Jul 09 20:20:46 And you can bang nails into it for testficxtures. Jul 09 20:20:49 * Dave rolls his eyes Jul 09 20:20:58 speedevil, yes yes, we see your point, thank you Jul 09 20:21:10 that and your entire lab could be eaten by termites, if you're not careful. Jul 09 20:21:13 and now for the big fun Jul 09 20:21:17 well, when our supplies of oil-based plastics run out, we can use cellulose instead Jul 09 20:21:33 how the fuck am i going to build this app with a special version of its lib requirements and make it statically link.... Jul 09 20:21:47 haxx0r teh makefile, lolz. Jul 09 20:22:00 ummmm Jul 09 20:22:03 its autofoo Jul 09 20:22:06 so... no Jul 09 20:22:07 :) Jul 09 20:22:15 raster, nastily :] Jul 09 20:22:19 still can be done Jul 09 20:22:25 you could still hack it ;) Jul 09 20:22:29 i could Jul 09 20:22:30 but i wont Jul 09 20:23:07 well. there are several ways. you can point it at your own special .pc files. Jul 09 20:23:18 anyone using unionfs? Jul 09 20:23:21 that only helps for certain libraries though Jul 09 20:23:48 Chocky: likely i will ned to Jul 09 20:23:58 So, has anyone else here run a jvm on either of the gta models yet? Jul 09 20:24:00 as ineed to also build special versions of those libs for static linking Jul 09 20:24:05 aye Jul 09 20:24:06 so, for those not following the list ... order 1087 is confirmed as shipped, and trakcing emails are going out as they ship. order 1087 got his confirmation late yesterday Jul 09 20:24:20 nullpuppy: but it seems, no one else so far ;-) Jul 09 20:24:24 i have to remove lots of options from them before linking to avoid excess ld.so linking happinss on boot Jul 09 20:24:25 nullpuppy: cool Jul 09 20:24:36 Chocky: that we've heard from, yeah :/ Jul 09 20:24:42 Dave: i am not THAT masochistic Jul 09 20:24:46 * nullpuppy is #1539, hoping it ships sometime today Jul 09 20:24:47 haha, okay :D Jul 09 20:24:51 me and java... are not best of friends Jul 09 20:24:53 * Chocky has given up for the day - 1345 Jul 09 20:24:55 That is somewhat relieving :) Jul 09 20:25:07 hehe, its only 1:30, lots of time left Jul 09 20:25:14 Though I have to run this app on the fr, it's in java Jul 09 20:25:16 it could be they're not picking up until late in the day Jul 09 20:25:21 ok Jul 09 20:25:23 coudl be Jul 09 20:25:27 so how do i get it to use custom .pc files... Jul 09 20:25:28 hmm Jul 09 20:25:31 this is going otbe messy Jul 09 20:25:32 so far I've tweaked it enough to run but now getting major issues Jul 09 20:25:33 and from the sounds of it, they had some issues in the beginning, hence the delayed shipping Jul 09 20:25:57 java.util.Vector, bleh. Jul 09 20:26:30 raster: use pkg-config and stick a big fat PKG_CONFIG_PATH on your invocation .. Jul 09 20:26:40 with a path to libs in one set, and your new freshies in the other. Jul 09 20:26:42 looks like a very common battery Jul 09 20:26:59 yep Jul 09 20:28:29 heh, so no one's run any java on it yet? haha Jul 09 20:28:58 torpor: the poblem is openembedded already does this Jul 09 20:29:03 and i now have to override it... Jul 09 20:29:05 surely the gps antenea being on the bottom wouldnt have any effect on gps satilite reception Jul 09 20:29:06 ouchness Jul 09 20:29:19 <_ferric> who'se bottom is the GPS antenna on!!! Jul 09 20:29:40 yya Jul 09 20:29:56 i thought you could easily glom stuff into the openembedded buildkit .. Jul 09 20:30:06 the question is... how Jul 09 20:30:09 theres so much stuff there Jul 09 20:30:10 ok Jul 09 20:30:16 OE so phat Jul 09 20:30:18 first letme just make the fuckr build statically... Jul 09 20:30:21 openmoko brand power supply too Jul 09 20:30:26 linuxxr: no Jul 09 20:30:43 like, add your glom to put an additional pkg-config-path in the chain, in some 'global' file or something, then build *just* the package you need, and unglom it (or not) Jul 09 20:30:55 torpor, yeah that stuff always annoys me. Jul 09 20:31:02 linuxxr: yes it woult Jul 09 20:31:03 d Jul 09 20:31:17 linuxxr: at that wavelength, antennas on the bottom of devices pick up very little. Jul 09 20:31:32 You need to mount one on a hat, like I did. Jul 09 20:31:37 personally i hate it but thats why i'm working on my own distro for neo and freerunner .. when i get a freerunner, i'll set it up to build its own images, and keep hacking on my neo meantime .. ;) Jul 09 20:31:38 if u were holding it upright i think at times it would Jul 09 20:31:43 and wear it, when you go outside, connected to your freerunner :D Jul 09 20:31:54 makes you very receptive, and look like a major dork! Jul 09 20:32:23 y blue tooth antenea haha Jul 09 20:33:41 eh? Jul 09 20:34:38 Dave: no way, look really cool :( Jul 09 20:34:45 * doc|work takes off his hat :( Jul 09 20:34:55 :D Jul 09 20:35:16 * doc|work twirls propeller one last time Jul 09 20:36:11 uggh Jul 09 20:36:16 NEVER AGAIN Jul 09 20:36:26 * Dave grumbles Jul 09 20:36:45 * Dave throws his java application at doc|work Jul 09 20:36:46 hmm Jul 09 20:36:50 here, YOU have it! Jul 09 20:36:59 ok stupid - how do i force static linking the "autofoo" way? Jul 09 20:37:10 LDFLAGS="-static" is... useless Jul 09 20:37:18 heh Jul 09 20:37:25 Dave: what does it do? Jul 09 20:37:39 it depends, but there's a good chance you'll need to hack the Makefile(.in) Jul 09 20:37:44 WHO KNOWS Jul 09 20:37:52 Since it can't run... yet Jul 09 20:37:54 fuckers Jul 09 20:38:00 pretty much :P Jul 09 20:38:01 that means i really will need those custon .pc's Jul 09 20:38:08 that point to .a's Jul 09 20:38:15 Dave: what's it meant to do? Jul 09 20:38:16 damn libtool and iut trying to use .so's not .a;s Jul 09 20:38:30 doc, exemplify a newly created networking protocol Jul 09 20:38:31 man libtool pisses me off Jul 09 20:38:39 I've got it working on pc Jul 09 20:38:42 raster: welcome to GNU Jul 09 20:38:46 but apparently not on the phones yet :P Jul 09 20:41:08 fuck Jul 09 20:41:16 i really am going to have to make custom .pc's Jul 09 20:41:18 fuck Jul 09 20:41:20 aw Jul 09 20:41:26 fuck, fuck, fuckity fuck fuck. Jul 09 20:41:39 EXACTLY! Jul 09 20:41:44 :] Jul 09 20:41:48 come on custom .pc's are not so hard. Jul 09 20:41:50 yeah, I'm all too familiar with it :| Jul 09 20:42:04 torpor: but making it all work within OE Jul 09 20:42:05 Dave: very coy, ok :) Jul 09 20:42:10 ... Jul 09 20:42:15 <_ferric> i believe the right thing to say is: fuck fuckity, fuck fuck fuck Jul 09 20:42:21 be really boring if you have to edit the .lib segment with emacs Jul 09 20:42:55 eww emacs Jul 09 20:42:57 raster i think you just need to copy the recipe for the package you're trying to glom, then build the .bb itself separately from the main tree Jul 09 20:43:15 put your own new dir details in there, etc, give a new package name .. Jul 09 20:44:10 <_ferric> vim ftw! Jul 09 20:44:42 to problem is they inherit from classes Jul 09 20:44:48 and i now need to deviate fromthe template Jul 09 20:45:24 * Dave high-fives ferric. Jul 09 20:45:56 raster, be a rebel, deviate from the standards, and start your OWN system! :P Jul 09 20:46:03 hahahah Jul 09 20:46:08 hell yeah! Jul 09 20:46:10 cue "python sucks" Jul 09 20:46:20 * Dave hisses at Chocky Jul 09 20:47:37 sekret intarnetz? Jul 09 20:55:21 congrats to the openmoko team on getting the Freerunner out the door. I feel like I'm holding a baby, imaging the possibilities... Jul 09 20:55:35 "you could be a doctor, or an astronaut, or a serial murderer..." Jul 09 20:55:41 stuff comes out both ends? ;-) Jul 09 20:56:09 Chocky: well, that too... I just got usbnet up, so I'm grinning ear to ear. Jul 09 20:56:25 my kingdom for a tracking number Jul 09 20:56:45 Chocky: +10 Jul 09 20:58:22 FWIW, my order number was 1040 and I got mine this morning Jul 09 20:58:37 it was shipped yesterday PM Jul 09 20:59:29 ab0oo: what shipping option did u choose and where are u? Jul 09 20:59:49 you guys knoew how to use unionfs on neo? Jul 09 20:59:51 I'm in Georgia, and I asked for "Standard" 1 day shipping. Jul 09 20:59:56 it came via UPS Jul 09 21:00:05 <_ferric> ab0oo: very cool Jul 09 21:00:07 nice Jul 09 21:00:10 <_ferric> now get hacking! Jul 09 21:00:13 congrats Jul 09 21:00:35 kudos to liane, I actually ordered it to be shipped to my hotel in DC, thinking it would ship Thursday and arrive Friday, but I forgot about the holiday Jul 09 21:01:02 I sent liane an email, and they re-routed it for me (actually, just shipped it to the correct address) Jul 09 21:01:15 aroo Jul 09 21:01:22 yea i found out that UPS offers that Jul 09 21:01:37 haha, Chocky Jul 09 21:01:42 What would we do without you? :) Jul 09 21:02:01 who knows, you've done ok until now Jul 09 21:02:11 * SpeedEvil tries to remember. Jul 09 21:02:19 80s kids TV series? Jul 09 21:02:25 :p Jul 09 21:02:25 hahaha hot, I finally got this working. :p Jul 09 21:02:37 not named after that, no Jul 09 21:02:40 :p, indeed. Jul 09 21:03:04 so.... qtopia or FSO... Jul 09 21:03:38 <_ferric> qtopia Jul 09 21:03:39 since I have a small, private shrine to lorn potter in my computer room, I think I'll flash qtopia on it. Jul 09 21:03:39 Dave: http://digg.com/software/First_alpha_release_of_Amarok_2_0_Malina <-- Digg it, for the release picture is made of cuteness! ;) Jul 09 21:04:05 :o Jul 09 21:04:26 hmm Jul 09 21:04:46 Uhh, what? Jul 09 21:05:03 Made of cuteness, I think your site got hacked then, leinir. :p Jul 09 21:05:15 It's a little wolf cub :) Jul 09 21:05:44 It most resembles a grainy thumbnail of a human fetus. Jul 09 21:06:45 lpotter: I'm not going to regret flashing the qtopia image, am I? I've been using qtopia since my ipaq 3870 5 or 6 years ago. Jul 09 21:07:00 ab0oot time Jul 09 21:07:28 Dave: Hmm... Go to the source, then... should have a bigger version of it :) Jul 09 21:08:12 I'd rather not. Jul 09 21:09:15 Aww... Jul 09 21:09:18 Spoilsport ;) Jul 09 21:09:46 are we running KDE apps on FR now? Jul 09 21:09:57 hahah yeah, no Jul 09 21:09:59 That's another thing Jul 09 21:10:02 I intend to... Jul 09 21:10:04 kde.org (pass) Jul 09 21:10:07 I also do intend to Jul 09 21:10:19 I intend to burn all unbelievers. Jul 09 21:10:20 Chocky: Well, amarok2 won't fit on a VGA screen :) Jul 09 21:10:20 http://www.kdedevelopers.org/blog/2892 Jul 09 21:10:34 But we do have some serious hope for certain parts of the Amarok 2 UI :) Jul 09 21:10:46 sounds way too resource intensive. Jul 09 21:10:49 if it works on 1973, why not this Jul 09 21:10:50 that, and fugly. Jul 09 21:11:03 kelvie_work: we wouldn't want to contaminate perfection :P Jul 09 21:11:11 * Dave laughs, snidely Jul 09 21:11:14 is it right that, at total idle, the load average on the FR is 2.18? Jul 09 21:11:15 Dave: first we'd have to find it Jul 09 21:11:19 Indeed :p Jul 09 21:11:38 you really don't like KDE, do you.... Jul 09 21:11:51 Absolutely not. Jul 09 21:12:08 * Chocky likes KDE, but I' Jul 09 21:12:14 but I'm not sure it belongs on my phone Jul 09 21:12:35 hi Jul 09 21:12:39 The only decent thing which ever started with a Kaptial K was Mortal Kombat, but even that was subjective :p Jul 09 21:12:41 I wouldn't want the whole stack on my phone Jul 09 21:12:42 * Dave giggles Jul 09 21:12:48 I wouldn't mind parts of Plasma Jul 09 21:12:55 Not a KDE desktop, that'd be going against KDE policy as well (KDE desktop sits on SVGA, not anything smaller) Jul 09 21:13:09 and Amarok for sure Jul 09 21:13:10 how do i power up the bluetooth chip in ASU? Jul 09 21:13:12 haha, yeah, it sure is one fat ass :p Jul 09 21:13:24 surely there's something better suited than Amarok. Jul 09 21:13:26 Amarok doesn't fit, but we *are* pondering on ways of making a proper mobile Amarok :) Jul 09 21:13:35 * Dave wonders how big leinir's stack is, as well :p Jul 09 21:13:37 So, a GPS question.. On a bright day, on a rooftop with 360 degrees view, ffix from 13 satelites.. is a average of 147-149 dbm acceptable? Jul 09 21:13:44 I am pretty sure KDE will be fine on a VGA desktop Jul 09 21:13:49 leinir a proper mobile app, well now, that's a bit different :) Jul 09 21:13:51 Chocky: Yes, like something with a 1024x768 screen ;) Jul 09 21:13:51 you can resize the panel Jul 09 21:14:04 e.g. Totem Jul 09 21:14:16 hi Jul 09 21:14:21 kelvie_work: Well yes, but it's not our intention - we'd rather not compromise :) Jul 09 21:14:24 mpg123 Jul 09 21:14:28 that was our player when I did OE stuff for NetBook Pro - 800x200 Jul 09 21:14:34 i tried i tried echo "1" > /sys/bus/platform/devices/neo1973-pm-bt.0/power_on but it doesn't work Jul 09 21:14:46 hrm Jul 09 21:14:47 mpg123 is slow on ARM. you want madplay Jul 09 21:14:53 o Jul 09 21:14:56 bluetooth is not listed in lsusb nor does a cat of the same file show 1 afterwards Jul 09 21:14:56 heh Jul 09 21:14:59 mad play go Jul 09 21:15:03 s/g/y/ Jul 09 21:15:04 Dave meant: mad play yo Jul 09 21:15:07 or perhaps mpg321 Jul 09 21:15:16 IXian-probe: it's not a absolute figure as I understand it. Jul 09 21:15:16 leinir: I could have sworn I heard aseigo say he had touchscreen and small screen devices in mind when he was designing plasma Jul 09 21:15:16 nobody knows when Neo freerunner 900 will be available? (is sold out :-/) Jul 09 21:15:22 * Dave high-fives apt Jul 09 21:15:31 anybody* Jul 09 21:15:33 kelvie_work: He did - plasma itself :) Jul 09 21:15:35 sorry Jul 09 21:15:36 opentrinity: a few weeks Jul 09 21:15:59 opentrinity: I think I saw july 18th Jul 09 21:15:59 Chocky, i hope so :D Jul 09 21:16:07 :D Jul 09 21:16:22 all of you have a openmoko? Jul 09 21:16:28 hardly Jul 09 21:16:40 opentrinity: no Jul 09 21:16:55 for about 3 hours... Jul 09 21:17:07 a freerunner Jul 09 21:17:11 SpeedEvil: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DBm Jul 09 21:17:14 neo1973 for about 1 year, and i'm gonna get my freerunner next week hopefully .. Jul 09 21:17:30 what are your impressions? Jul 09 21:17:36 * Dave keeps leinir away from his blood. Jul 09 21:17:47 i like it, its a great linux box. Jul 09 21:18:41 good!!! . Jul 09 21:18:43 what image do the fr ships with? Jul 09 21:18:49 and hi btw :) Jul 09 21:19:10 I believe it's om-devel-gta02 from around april Jul 09 21:19:16 opentrinity: it's bare naked. I made a phone call with it, got an SMS with it, and that's about it Jul 09 21:19:20 * leinir thinks the answer to that question needs to be in the topic ;) Jul 09 21:19:25 unless the latest shipments were secretly upgraded Jul 09 21:19:40 it seems to sleep, sort of. it runs at a load average of 2.30 Jul 09 21:19:40 yay Jul 09 21:19:41 * Dave pokes Speedevil Jul 09 21:19:51 ab0oo: right :p Jul 09 21:19:54 usbnet works, wifi sorta works Jul 09 21:19:58 it's a bit counterintuitive/shitty :) Jul 09 21:20:02 yep yep Jul 09 21:20:04 you got it! Jul 09 21:20:05 SpeedEvil: wikipedia says otherwise, dbm is absolute.. ^_^ Jul 09 21:20:26 I wouldn't go to "shitty". I'd go to "If you've never, ever played with embedded linux before, welcome to the REAL world" Jul 09 21:20:55 IXian-probe: yes - it's absolute - but the output possibly not an accurate representation of the signal. Jul 09 21:20:58 y let the hackAGE BEGIN again Jul 09 21:21:12 SpeedEvil: yeah, but that's why I'm asking.. Jul 09 21:21:26 so it's some asu snapshot from april? Jul 09 21:21:53 Fossi: no Jul 09 21:22:13 i'm so impatient.... Jul 09 21:22:17 Fossi: ASU is the 'new' semifunctional hack that smashed qtopia and some other bits together. Jul 09 21:22:26 SpeedEvil: i get weird characters after my name from you Jul 09 21:22:27 Fossi: 2007.2 is what predated it Jul 09 21:22:51 ii hope before august to order it :-/ Jul 09 21:23:02 so, what the hell is 2007.08? Jul 09 21:23:11 I HOPE BEFORE AUGUST TO GET IT Jul 09 21:23:18 so shouty Jul 09 21:23:19 some never '2007' line release? Jul 09 21:23:26 sorry Jul 09 21:23:29 *newer Jul 09 21:24:23 i got me spare battery charged an ready Jul 09 21:24:39 Yay! Jul 09 21:24:44 * Dave high-fives linuxxr Jul 09 21:24:49 yays Jul 09 21:24:56 Now your freerunner will never 'die', if you are careful :) Jul 09 21:24:59 good job Jul 09 21:25:05 just make sure one is always charged, as a backup :) Jul 09 21:25:50 good night to me...bye all and thank you... Jul 09 21:25:53 the laser/stylus is kinda slick... Jul 09 21:26:16 I wish I had a cat to use the laser to mess with Jul 09 21:26:27 as in u can drop it easily? Jul 09 21:26:56 red green? Jul 09 21:26:57 hahahaha Jul 09 21:27:03 terrible :P Jul 09 21:27:09 ab0oo: it works with dogs too :P Jul 09 21:27:10 :D Jul 09 21:27:14 and kids? Jul 09 21:27:18 Poor silly animals :D Jul 09 21:27:23 chocky, no, but with blondes! Jul 09 21:27:25 :D Jul 09 21:27:28 sweet Jul 09 21:27:30 * Dave laughs Jul 09 21:27:34 hmm, 8 year old daughter just walked in... lets see.... Jul 09 21:27:38 :D! Jul 09 21:27:39 /cler/clear Jul 09 21:27:48 * _ferric checks the channel name Jul 09 21:27:50 ab0oo: add your results to the wiki Jul 09 21:27:50 y shes jumping Jul 09 21:27:50 :p Jul 09 21:27:54 hahahaha Jul 09 21:28:07 yes... kids, too Jul 09 21:28:27 Excellent >:) Jul 09 21:29:07 1/2 way to qtopia utopia... Jul 09 21:29:12 \o/ Jul 09 21:30:01 what's the differences between the jffs2 and the jffs.nosummary? Jul 09 21:30:09 * Dave shrugs Jul 09 21:30:22 good night Jul 09 21:30:34 bigger is better... going with the .jffs2 image. Jul 09 21:31:15 good idea Jul 09 21:31:23 oh and funny how you said half-way there Jul 09 21:31:39 since flashing the kernel takes one minute and flashing the rootfs takes about fifteen :p Jul 09 21:31:45 * Dave smirks Jul 09 21:32:08 hmm, the "boot from SD looks like a better option Jul 09 21:32:11 * Chocky high fives Jul 09 21:32:36 means I need to steal another micro-SD from my gumstix board... Jul 09 21:32:43 so, if it's a 2007.2 version, where are all the cool apps gone to? do i have to update to a newer version of the 2007 line? Jul 09 21:32:52 ab0oo: Yes, seems like the better option, except i couldn't get it to work ;) Jul 09 21:34:52 For those of you that have ordered your new FR, check out Woot today (http://www.woot.com) 2GB microSD with adaptor for $5.99 Jul 09 21:35:44 curious why the uboot is version 1.3.2-rc2-dirty-moko12... Jul 09 21:35:54 is there a "clean" version, too? Jul 09 21:35:54 who has wlan.py? Jul 09 21:36:29 Xaos: i have a set of 8gig microSD's, i got from saturn.at Jul 09 21:36:57 torpor: NICE! how much? I was wanting an 8GB, but settled for this based on the price (for now anyway) Jul 09 21:38:08 how many sd readers in the neo? just one, right? Jul 09 21:38:14 8G microSD is available for 40$US (free worldwide shipping) from dealextreme.com Jul 09 21:38:47 kelvie_work: nice! Jul 09 21:38:58 Xaos: 15euro's or so, i forgot, it was a big shopping day, but i know they're cheap. Jul 09 21:39:17 might get three, two for my n800, one for freerunner Jul 09 21:39:24 15 euros... that's like $75 US, right? :) Jul 09 21:39:27 i got a goal: put a full-source distro on an 8gig micro-SD, then make a snapshot. ;) Jul 09 21:39:29 shipping takes about 2 weeks to Vancouver though :p Jul 09 21:39:31 ab0oo: getting that way :) Jul 09 21:39:36 kelvie_work: boooo Jul 09 21:39:41 but hey Jul 09 21:39:42 it's cheap Jul 09 21:39:45 and free :) Jul 09 21:39:47 kelvie_work: you ordering? I'd get in on that. Jul 09 21:39:53 it's free shipping Jul 09 21:39:56 so it does not matter :p Jul 09 21:40:06 well, yeah, but ... nothing :o Jul 09 21:40:06 I already ordered mine a week ago Jul 09 21:40:17 What's the difference between class 4 and class 6? Jul 09 21:40:24 Xaos: class 6 is faster Jul 09 21:40:25 iirc Jul 09 21:40:47 on DealExtreme, the Transcend 8GB is Class 6, but it isn't listed on the HW compat chart for FR Jul 09 21:41:09 wait...that's an SD...not microSD Jul 09 21:41:27 still ok Jul 09 21:41:28 They tightened up the spec with sdhc, any sdhc card should work in an sdhc reader. Jul 09 21:41:57 and 8GB is guaranteed to be sdhc. The sh addressing mode tops out at 4gb. Jul 09 21:42:02 sd Jul 09 21:42:19 <_ferric> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.13305 that? Jul 09 21:42:56 <_ferric> so, does the FR have an SDHC reader? :) Jul 09 21:43:20 I'm guessing that the SanDisk 8GB is the current favorite then? Jul 09 21:43:29 I may have to order that from DealExtreme as well Jul 09 21:43:43 hah, "Booting" has a picture of a pair of boots. lol Jul 09 21:43:53 ab0oo: yeah...I laughed too Jul 09 21:44:21 I'm still waiting for the sandisk 12GB to become available in stores. They were sampling in January afair, so they should be available soon. Jul 09 21:44:37 has anybody (U.S.) received a shipping notice? are they shipping yet? Jul 09 21:45:24 nope Jul 09 21:45:29 2039 Jul 09 21:45:56 Xaos: 1040 - delivered this morning Jul 09 21:46:00 THere was a message on the community page that someone in the 1000s got a message with a tracking number. Jul 09 21:46:01 that kobo deluxe game is likely the most stupid port. ever. Jul 09 21:46:15 hmm...I'm at 1220 and haven't received a notice yet Jul 09 21:46:33 Also, there was a message from Steve@openmoko that tracking nubers will be sent when orders ship. Jul 09 21:46:48 there's an echo in here Jul 09 21:48:12 Lynet: how much would those cost? Jul 09 21:48:34 does somebody know where opkg puts it's lockfile? Jul 09 21:48:39 http://shop1.frys.com/product/5291727 <-- looks like 29.99 for 8GB here, will this work? Jul 09 21:49:51 key__: That's an SD card...you want a microSD card Jul 09 21:50:13 Xaos: doh.... thanks Jul 09 21:50:44 np Jul 09 21:50:56 I get excited when I see those too...then I look closer Jul 09 21:50:57 ;-) Jul 09 21:54:23 doc|work: Well, since they are not available in stores yet, how am I to know? Jul 09 21:57:52 i don't get it. at all. why do screenshots from last year's today2 look so good and the freerunner release downsn't even feature a clock? Jul 09 21:58:07 heh Jul 09 21:58:17 maybe this helps Jul 09 21:58:21 http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/open-moko-software.ars Jul 09 21:58:24 Fossi: The home page on FR doesn't have a clock? Jul 09 21:58:32 Dutch customers over the border can pay just 1 euro ($1.57) for an iPhone if they pick a contract with operator T-Mobile. Jul 09 21:58:34 could i install a 2007.2 snapshot today2? or is something broken on the way through asu? Jul 09 21:58:49 1 Euro + expensive contract. no thanks :p Jul 09 21:59:29 Fossi: all the forking has meant a serious regression factor on the demo front, alas. Jul 09 21:59:42 well, the fr that shipped to me doesn't Jul 09 21:59:57 and i'm still trying to figure out if it's me being too stupid Jul 09 22:00:20 it looks exactly like the first shot on that article Jul 09 22:00:31 background, no application manager, no clock Jul 09 22:00:35 Without dialer apps up top? Jul 09 22:00:38 Something is broken. Jul 09 22:00:58 <_ferric> Fossi: reflash Jul 09 22:01:04 actually, *all* phones that shipped to our company came like that Jul 09 22:01:07 <_ferric> Fossi: you cannot run 2007.02 yet, I think Jul 09 22:01:29 i can go to + and start the dialer Jul 09 22:01:56 <_ferric> whoa. that doesn't sound like FSO then Jul 09 22:02:06 <_ferric> can you take picture, Fossi? looks like ASU? Jul 09 22:02:10 Oh, he's definitely running 2007.2 Jul 09 22:02:25 Based on his screen looking like the 1st one in the article Jul 09 22:02:43 ASU isn't that bad.. Jul 09 22:02:56 no, i guess it is 2007.2 Jul 09 22:03:50 <_ferric> torpor: depends on who you ask Jul 09 22:04:00 <_ferric> Fossi: strange. Jul 09 22:04:12 i would say that ASU shows great promise :) Jul 09 22:04:22 * SpeedEvil diddn't see anything fundamentally wrong with 2007.* Jul 09 22:04:38 * _ferric neither. Jul 09 22:05:04 I think it's a lot easier to say ASU shows promise if you didn't see what 2007.2 looked like 3 months ago Jul 09 22:05:37 2007.2 rocks. i'm sticking with it as my default install, personally. Jul 09 22:07:26 Especially considering that it would have been 2007.2 with another 5 or 6? months of core dev time. Jul 09 22:09:01 i wonder if downgrading to an older snapshot would actually give me *more* apps Jul 09 22:09:21 Fossi: Can just use opkg to install what you're missing Jul 09 22:09:38 well, why does today2 not have a clock on my moko? Jul 09 22:09:48 i did opkg update && opkg upgrade Jul 09 22:09:55 They removed it. Jul 09 22:10:07 and why the hell is that? Jul 09 22:10:37 there isn't even a mediaplayer in the current daily-feed anymore it seems Jul 09 22:11:08 all the screenshots of november look good and then i get a phone half a year later and it barely has any features :\ Jul 09 22:11:19 except for being able to phone people Jul 09 22:11:33 which i can't because of an incompatible g3 card :\ Jul 09 22:12:33 Fossi: dbus-launch gconftool-2 -t boolean -s /desktop/poky/interface/reduced false Jul 09 22:12:41 Fossi: Do that, restart X (or reboot), and voila Jul 09 22:13:11 abraxa_: Did they also remove the dialer, contacts, etc. buttons at the top of today2? Jul 09 22:13:31 wurp2: Yeah, but that's "reduced" mode. Can easily switch back with what I just posted Jul 09 22:13:55 Bringing back the media player is no big problem either Jul 09 22:13:59 I see, I figured that was probably the case after I read your instructions more carefully :-) Jul 09 22:14:03 :) Jul 09 22:14:20 i mean, it doesn't stop there Jul 09 22:14:30 no application manager Jul 09 22:14:34 no way to start apps Jul 09 22:14:37 Is there any reason given for those changes? Jul 09 22:14:42 no keyboard with a / Jul 09 22:14:47 so the terminal is useless Jul 09 22:14:52 Fossi: No way to start apps? And the keyboard... indeed, that's braindead. Jul 09 22:14:57 Fossi: Erm, tap the +, then tap the app? Jul 09 22:15:09 yeah, ok Jul 09 22:15:20 wurp2: I can only guess they did that to have a "known working" set of features. Jul 09 22:16:04 well, that's some really interesting crisis management then Jul 09 22:16:36 prolly somebody should've noticed in november when it still looked good that it's time to clean up... well, whatever Jul 09 22:16:51 instead of lamenting, i'll start porting stuff over or rather package Jul 09 22:17:14 an awful lot of useful stuff seems to be 'missing' still :) Jul 09 22:17:38 and maybe work some on SHR Jul 09 22:17:49 Fossi: There are many things that can be said about Openmoko, Inc. - I stopped wondering about the decisions made in Taiwan and just deal with them. Jul 09 22:18:06 <_ferric> haha Jul 09 22:18:24 <_ferric> abraxa_: that's the best description of the issue at hand. Jul 09 22:18:47 or i mean... settings gui Jul 09 22:18:48 no way to configure your ringtone? wtf. Jul 09 22:18:59 I think it's the incentive for the peeps who started SHR, too. Jul 09 22:19:21 well, at least it's a good piece of hardware with lots of open specs and gpl drivers Jul 09 22:19:46 so at least i don't have to write a touchscreendriver like i would've had to with my xda Jul 09 22:20:02 And a working GPS if you're one of the chosen ones :) Jul 09 22:20:14 didn't try yet Jul 09 22:20:19 too much bad weather ;) Jul 09 22:20:40 Holding it against the window works just as well Jul 09 22:21:02 SHR? Jul 09 22:21:03 well, i'm not gonna try that for 12 minutes ;) Jul 09 22:21:48 Fossi: 12 minutes? Doubt it'd take that long but okay, I understand you have different priorities now ;) Jul 09 22:22:12 well, apparently that one guaranteed satellite cycle Jul 09 22:22:20 doc|work: "Stable Hybrid Release" or something of that sort. A mix of FSO + 2007.2, basically. Jul 09 22:22:28 ~SHR Jul 09 22:22:28 ah Jul 09 22:22:30 doc|home, Stable Hybrid Release. Some folks are building a community-driven image that aims to comply with the FreeSmartphone.org framework and be functional. Jul 09 22:22:33 i guess shr is Stable Hybrid Release, a combination of the FSO, some of the 2007.2 GTK software, and the ASU that provides all of the functionality of the 2007.2 software, but with the stability of the FSO. See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Stable_Hybrid_Release Jul 09 22:22:38 oh, this is the fourth distro :/ Jul 09 22:22:40 so if you don't get a signal by then, something is 'fishy' Jul 09 22:22:43 moose Jul 09 22:22:50 ETOOMANYDISTROS Jul 09 22:23:02 Chocky_: a little, but who's going to fold first? :) Jul 09 22:23:06 Chocky_, It's a lot earier to list the ones that work. :P Jul 09 22:23:08 doc|work: ...which will make 2007.2 pointless, which is good. Jul 09 22:23:19 omg omg omg i need to get my freerunner Jul 09 22:23:21 better then just one ;) Jul 09 22:23:26 kd8ikt: pwnies Jul 09 22:23:32 abraxa_: why's that? .2 = pants? Jul 09 22:23:38 better _than_ Jul 09 22:23:55 lucky for me a group just south of me ordered 10 and have one for me for like 370$ Jul 09 22:24:03 kd8ikt: that list: Jul 09 22:24:05 * kd8ikt starts digging through the couch for change Jul 09 22:24:10 rt, kdean06 ^ Jul 09 22:24:20 ugh its somewhere on the wiki Jul 09 22:24:23 s/rt/er Jul 09 22:24:23 doc|work: 2007.2 relies on braindead infrastructure: neod, gsmd and other things. FSO changes that, but the apps need to change also. That's what SHR aims to do. Jul 09 22:24:33 ah, I see Jul 09 22:24:39 this is a bit of a mess :/ Jul 09 22:24:53 but whats with the video accellerator on a shared bus Jul 09 22:24:55 how is it $370? Jul 09 22:25:14 Chocky_: ? Jul 09 22:25:16 kdean06: it's unfortunate design choice is all. Jul 09 22:25:17 ! Jul 09 22:25:21 kd8: Jul 09 22:25:26 kd8 said $370 Jul 09 22:25:30 doc|work: In the short run, yeah. In the end, it'll be a great benefit: you'll be able to use the FSO apps *and* 2007.2 apps at the same time, and they'll co-exist peacefully. Jul 09 22:25:30 Chocky_: that's the per unit group price Jul 09 22:25:42 abraxa_: theoretically :) Jul 09 22:25:43 not after tax and shipping, it ain't Jul 09 22:25:57 try $396.70 Jul 09 22:26:08 Chocky_: you're not paying that for the unit, you're paying that to the government and to ups Jul 09 22:26:14 pfft Jul 09 22:26:27 I'm paying it, no matter what Jul 09 22:26:28 not pfft, important distinctions. blame where it's due :) Jul 09 22:26:33 same Jul 09 22:26:40 http://us.direct.openmoko.com/products/neo-freerunner so 10 for 3,690$ = 369 per Jul 09 22:26:41 oh, there's plenty of _blame_ Jul 09 22:27:11 pluss a few bucks per for shipping i will have to pay more like 375 Jul 09 22:27:16 that's beside the $4000 bill on my credit card Jul 09 22:27:22 it would have been nice if there had been an incentive for group organisers :) Jul 09 22:27:43 doc|home: well, I get the $2.30 if they pay me straight $400 :p Jul 09 22:27:43 incentive is me not hunting you down Jul 09 22:27:51 well there kindof is you get a cheaper phone and friends around you with it too! Jul 09 22:28:00 I know I've spent 20 dollars on phone calls and lots of time :/ Jul 09 22:28:08 doc|work: besides all those miles the get from the credit card company? Jul 09 22:28:12 kd8ikt: aye, I know, was only half joking :) Jul 09 22:28:15 well, how about you don't give people the discount? Jul 09 22:28:28 sitwon: yeah, those add up to maybe a $10 starbucks card Jul 09 22:28:29 sitwon: my credit card won't even give me a credit limit. Fuck them. :/ Jul 09 22:28:35 then... no1 will buy it and you'll be stuck with phones Jul 09 22:28:57 doc|work: I've got a paper clip with your name on it ;) Jul 09 22:29:01 then offer a 5$ discount ;) Jul 09 22:29:05 is the freerunner ungodly thick or is it just my eyes? Jul 09 22:29:06 macdonalder: yey! on it how? a sticker? Jul 09 22:29:29 kd8ikt: it depends. Jul 09 22:29:44 kd8ikt: due to the low volume of production, it is thicker than other phones. Jul 09 22:29:44 it does have some thickness to it doesnt it? Jul 09 22:29:47 doc|work: laser microscopy is a wonderful thing Jul 09 22:29:59 yes, no 2D phones, thanks Jul 09 22:30:00 kd8ikt: is it too thick for you to use? Well... Jul 09 22:30:02 macdonalder: sweet, hmmm, could you do that on the stylus? :) Jul 09 22:30:18 well its thinner then a pack of smokes right? Jul 09 22:30:32 or barely Jul 09 22:30:36 than Jul 09 22:30:36 kd8ikt: depends, 10 pack or 20 pack? :) Jul 09 22:30:48 btw, all that gconftool stuff. is there a list of things you can set somewhere? Jul 09 22:30:49 haha Jul 09 22:33:34 anyway, gotta sleep Jul 09 22:33:35 n8 Jul 09 22:41:27 120.7 x 62 x 18.5 mm Jul 09 22:41:45 Hm, Fossi sure left quickly. Jul 09 22:42:02 should he leave one letter at a time? Jul 09 22:42:20 No, but he should at least give people the chance to respond to his questions ;) Jul 09 22:43:54 UPS ground can be 1-5 days. but it's only from Northern CA, so next day if lucky Jul 09 22:43:59 hm Jul 09 22:46:28 ok i think a pack of smokes is like 25mm thick Jul 09 22:46:52 i need a ruler ;) Jul 09 22:49:17 hmm, I thought I would share this. I might open a bug report tomorrow: Jul 09 22:49:44 Freerunner automatically suspends only when.... Jul 09 22:50:02 USB is plugged in Jul 09 22:50:21 now what kind of power management is that :-p Jul 09 22:50:31 lol Jul 09 22:51:19 hello, how do i install a package in openmko in qemu if i don't have a full-featured keyboard and no network between qemu and my computer(because i must type a command like this: pppd nodetach debug 192.168.68.1:192.168.68.2 noauth /dev/pts/12 and i have no / on the phone...) Jul 09 22:51:51 MarcOChapeau: hah Jul 09 22:51:58 oh, and another good one : suspend happens also when I'm doing stuff via ssh Jul 09 22:52:13 it seems based on touchscreen inactivity Jul 09 22:52:18 MarcOChapeau: you might want to file bugs about those against whatever image you're using Jul 09 22:52:41 doc|work: I will, that's why I got one early Jul 09 22:52:50 :) Jul 09 22:53:46 yes, but where's my tracking number :-( Jul 09 22:54:09 Chocky_: what order number had you? Jul 09 22:54:12 MarcOChapeau: which distro? Jul 09 22:54:12 1345 Jul 09 22:54:32 I'm spending a little time being dissapointed with qtopia Jul 09 22:54:39 Chocky_: hmmm, might be tomorrow, probably won't get one until they get processed by the UPS pickup Jul 09 22:54:44 ab0oo: the GTK-whatever-it-s-name-is Jul 09 22:54:47 aye Jul 09 22:55:13 and then it will have been a week :-( Jul 09 22:55:20 next comes FSO Jul 09 22:55:46 ab0oo: I'm guessing those 2 are just too young to be happy about Jul 09 22:55:49 "FISA passes providing immunity to wiretapping telcos" Jul 09 22:55:49 ab0oo: which image? what is dissapointing? Jul 09 22:56:08 lorn. there seems to be a lot of screen corruption Jul 09 22:56:16 ab0oo: You're talking about ASU Jul 09 22:56:17 esp in the control panel. Jul 09 22:56:25 ab0oo: but suspend issues are a serious matter and will affect any distro unless someone starts thinking about them Jul 09 22:56:26 Not "real" qtopia Jul 09 22:56:29 yes, ASU Jul 09 22:56:33 ahh ok. Jul 09 22:56:45 no. I'd LOVE to have "real" qtopia... but I don't know the secret handshake Jul 09 22:56:49 are we ever going to see any more qtopia images? Jul 09 22:57:00 ab0oo, there were some.. but they got taken down Jul 09 22:57:12 yes. I ut a freerunner one at qtopia.net am working on 1973 image Jul 09 22:57:12 If I could add "dial phone" to the qtopia image I have on my Ipaq 3870, I'd be happier than a pig in poop. Jul 09 22:57:34 that's pretty happy Jul 09 22:57:35 ab0oo: That's pretty happy. Jul 09 22:57:38 hah Jul 09 22:57:39 snap! Jul 09 22:57:50 not uite as happy as a three-peckered billy goat, but close. Jul 09 22:58:23 * MarcOChapeau is googling for "three-peckered billy goat" Jul 09 22:58:25 belive me, I'm pleased with the physics of the freerunner. I never had any illusions about the s/w yet Jul 09 22:58:30 oh dear, so I am Jul 09 22:58:50 well, it's coffee Jul 09 22:58:53 ab0oo: FSO, if you get the right build, will be great for calls + suspend & resume, and crap for everything else Jul 09 22:58:56 wow.. there *is* one for the freerunner. Jul 09 22:58:57 good. Jul 09 22:58:59 anyone? how can i install software in my qemu emulated openmoko phone...without full featured keyboard and network Jul 09 22:59:01 just don't use google image search... Jul 09 22:59:02 qtopia images will be released, no timeframe yet Jul 09 22:59:20 crap, as in it doesn't *have* *anything* else Jul 09 22:59:21 ljp: can you point me to a work-in-progress qtopia image? Jul 09 22:59:34 I suppose I can even build from source. Jul 09 22:59:52 ab0oo: If you can, plz create a wiki page on how you do it :-) Jul 09 23:00:05 ab0oo: fo you have an package for "three-peckered billy goat" ? I'd like that Jul 09 23:00:15 or is it impolite to ask at this point. I stopped programming QT a few years ago (it seems Java pays the bills in my house) Jul 09 23:00:24 Gots to go, have a good night. Jul 09 23:00:32 MarcOChapeau: I suddenly became very, very afraid of you... Jul 09 23:00:43 ab0oo: hehehe Jul 09 23:00:59 wurp2|away, i built a 2007.1 like image and it has a 2.6.24 kernel...will phone-calls and suspend be better than in the stock 2007.1 images? what about phone calls? Jul 09 23:03:32 Gnutoo: Are you sure you don't mean 2007.2? And suspend improves with more recent kernels whereas phone functions won't Jul 09 23:04:06 abraxa_, i don't know i built it with oe...and the name of the distrib is "openmoko" Jul 09 23:04:17 yeah i was under the assumption that the suspend features where ironed out Jul 09 23:04:19 abraxa_, ok thanks Jul 09 23:04:41 abraxa_: I'd say I agree. and kernels are not such a big issue. the issue is the apps that uses those kernel functionnalities Jul 09 23:04:42 calls wake it up now etc Jul 09 23:05:31 Gnutoo: Then you sure mean 2007.2 as the last working 2007.1 image I saw was over a year ago :) Jul 09 23:06:10 kudos to the firmware guys and the dfu-util. I've worked on 5 or 6 different embedded linux products, and these guys really got it right with the booloader Jul 09 23:06:47 abraxa_, ok...by the way do you know how i could install ipks on this image that runs in qemu because i do not have a full featured keyboard and no network Jul 09 23:07:05 Gnutoo: You can try getting the "USB" network going so you can ssh into it Jul 09 23:07:08 anyone else get tracking number yet? Jul 09 23:07:20 just got mine :D Jul 09 23:07:21 no, just the one guy on the list Jul 09 23:07:23 uh oh Jul 09 23:07:29 troy|home: what's your order #? Jul 09 23:07:39 1157 Jul 09 23:07:41 hm Jul 09 23:07:53 * Chocky repeats line about 100/day :-( Jul 09 23:07:54 troy|home: did you also get that video of the packaging of your neo ? Jul 09 23:08:07 nope... who gets that? Jul 09 23:08:16 was on the list Jul 09 23:08:39 troy|home: well, it seems trisoft has setup an funny system where they get filmed when they package your stuff Jul 09 23:08:41 troy|home: I assume MarcOChapeau ordered at TRIsoft - people who do get a video of the packaging Jul 09 23:09:07 troy|home: not sure if it's a real thing or just a funny fake though :-) Jul 09 23:09:08 they do a nice job of packing it, fwiw. Did I mention the laser pointer is highly effective at amusing children and annoying wives? Jul 09 23:09:17 lol, I'm just glad its finally in the mail Jul 09 23:09:19 MarcOChapeau: It actually makes sense - it's so people can't claim that TRIsoft forgot to put in SD cards and other accessories. Jul 09 23:09:22 (well, it amused my three children, but I only have one wife to test on) Jul 09 23:09:32 sigh. 1345. Jul 09 23:09:34 abraxa_, ok thanks i'll try but i would need to recompile the kernel Jul 09 23:09:46 I'll try it on my cats Jul 09 23:09:57 abraxa_: SD was in the closed freerunner box ;-) Jul 09 23:10:08 MarcOChapeau: Indeed, but they sell other stuff, too :) Jul 09 23:10:25 clear case would be neat Jul 09 23:10:32 abraxa_: yup, I got a pouch and the headset as a bonus Jul 09 23:10:39 make it out of chocolate Jul 09 23:11:04 kd8ikt: the case specs are out there... a little acrylic and a CNC machine, and you could be rolling in the $ Jul 09 23:11:12 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * r168dd72c82e3 10/otapi/ (2 files in 2 dirs): OTAPI: org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call: Change API for ListCalls, remove GetStatus, add Join, HoldActive, and Transfer Jul 09 23:11:16 heh yes Jul 09 23:11:18 MarcOChapeau: Which came for free from Openmoko, Inc. btw - only Pulster decides to make customers pay for those Jul 09 23:11:21 thats a great idear Jul 09 23:11:30 wb mickey Jul 09 23:11:48 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r270456d4a93f 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/ (4 files in 4 dirs): ogsmd: implement org.freesmartphone.GSM.ListCalls Jul 09 23:11:52 abraxa_: I thought it might be those extra goodies for the "first 1000" Jul 09 23:11:55 g'night Jul 09 23:12:05 Oh. Well, good night then :) Jul 09 23:12:13 MarcOChapeau: Quite possibly, yeah Jul 09 23:12:16 mega tired Jul 09 23:12:17 that was my fear, and I was thinking I was 40 orders too late... Jul 09 23:12:20 will catch you hopefully soon Jul 09 23:12:22 troy|work: so where are you, and when's ETA? Jul 09 23:12:27 your exams over yet? Jul 09 23:12:37 mickey|zzZZzz: Last one in 7 hours, yay! Jul 09 23:12:47 ok, good speed! lets talk after that then Jul 09 23:12:53 Sure Jul 09 23:12:55 abraxa_: what are you doing in a chatroom then ? :-D Jul 09 23:13:12 I'm in New Brunswick canada and my arrival date is the 17th but it is already in Quebec so it should be here tomorrow or next day. Jul 09 23:13:17 MarcOChapeau: Can't sleep... Jul 09 23:13:34 lol, that's something I consider doing soon Jul 09 23:13:42 actually... Jul 09 23:13:48 good night :-) Jul 09 23:13:49 troy|work: not UPS ground then Jul 09 23:13:54 Heh, good night Jul 09 23:14:17 apparently... seems fast. Jul 09 23:16:37 hmm, there are no reviews out yet? Jul 09 23:17:51 hm, still. the 1087 guy was yesterday. That's not enough data forms to form a conclusion, but it could mean they're really slow Jul 09 23:18:03 s/forms/points/ Jul 09 23:18:04 Chocky meant: hm, still. the 1087 guy was yesterday. That's not enough data points to form a conclusion, but it could mean they're really slow Jul 09 23:18:15 silly apy Jul 09 23:18:20 s/apy/apt/ Jul 09 23:18:22 Chocky meant: silly apt Jul 09 23:18:32 s//moose/ Jul 09 23:19:02 moo Jul 09 23:19:07 moo indeed Jul 09 23:19:14 mäh Jul 09 23:21:41 how long will it take to develop stable software? Jul 09 23:21:59 depending on complexity Jul 09 23:22:07 It's been over a year now to get where we are... :( Jul 09 23:22:07 how long is a piece of string? Jul 09 23:22:15 heh Jul 09 23:22:16 how long is the actual lag of the MLs? Jul 09 23:22:29 a few mins Jul 09 23:22:31 hey so all the gui apps are QT? Jul 09 23:22:39 or what Jul 09 23:22:45 or etk Jul 09 23:22:48 or gtk Jul 09 23:23:11 or anything else you want to set up :) Jul 09 23:23:36 well what libs are on the default image Jul 09 23:23:42 gtk? Jul 09 23:23:47 gtk Jul 09 23:23:56 depending on the image Jul 09 23:23:59 libz Jul 09 23:24:09 it's what comes by default, but I think development has halted on them Jul 09 23:24:14 Hey, ont he shipping, I paid extra for 2nd dair air A.M, but I didn't get a notification of it being shipped today ( I ordered yesterday ) Jul 09 23:24:27 oh, crap. I don't have a sim pin, but it's demanding one.... Jul 09 23:24:32 is it still going to be 2nd day air, or did they mean 2nd day air from whenever we decide to ship? Jul 09 23:24:41 or do I have one I don't know about Jul 09 23:24:47 if you ordered yesterday, you're in for a wait Jul 09 23:24:52 sontek: from when they ship. what's you're order #? Jul 09 23:25:16 I was hoping to get it for the weekend Jul 09 23:25:21 unlikely Jul 09 23:25:25 +very Jul 09 23:25:34 I ordered 6 days ago Jul 09 23:25:34 I would've let it go ground if I knew that :P Jul 09 23:25:40 ab0oo: 3030 Jul 09 23:25:42 heh Jul 09 23:25:46 ouch Jul 09 23:26:06 you'll have to wait for 1200-3029 or so to ship first Jul 09 23:26:14 should i take picture from all sides so you can build a model of the freerunner? Jul 09 23:26:15 mine was 1040, and mine shipped yesterday. someone else had 1200 or so, and it shipped today Jul 09 23:26:17 that sucks, I wonder if I can modify my order and save the $15 since theres no rush if I wont have it for the weekend Jul 09 23:26:21 sontek: probably won't be shipped until thurs/fri Jul 09 23:26:50 i will by one when the most of the software bugs and child diseases has been rooted out Jul 09 23:27:22 isprins, wating for GTA03? Jul 09 23:27:42 i ordered mind on thursday when the store opened, order 1459, and nothing as of yet :( Jul 09 23:27:48 playya: no, Freerunner Jul 09 23:28:21 isprins wants the gta04 then Jul 09 23:28:26 linty: after mine at 1345 Jul 09 23:28:35 you get your tracking number chocky? Jul 09 23:28:41 but what about the child diseases? Jul 09 23:28:46 nope Jul 09 23:28:49 :( Jul 09 23:28:52 mumps? chickenpox? Jul 09 23:28:53 woe is us Jul 09 23:28:58 woe woe woe Jul 09 23:29:36 playya: hardware bugs Jul 09 23:29:41 Just reset expectations; it'll be a fun device to develop on, and play with -- just not likely to be anything as flashy as an iphone, or as business-like as a treo. Jul 09 23:30:05 i also have to admit that i'm not too pleased with the customer service Jul 09 23:30:31 the only problem i can admit is the battery Jul 09 23:30:32 had they sent everyone an email explaining there were some delays, i'd have felt a lot better than finding some mailing list post that says "oh yeah, we fixed it though" Jul 09 23:30:33 well, the FSO image is absolutely beautiful... and completely functionless Jul 09 23:30:40 it has a dialer, and that's it. Jul 09 23:30:59 aye Jul 09 23:31:02 the FR is still a phone Jul 09 23:31:44 so a dialer might be enough for someone Jul 09 23:32:54 maybe a sip phone functionality Jul 09 23:33:01 a dialer, WLAN and sms + mms + AGPS/GPS is enough for me. Jul 09 23:33:01 er bad grammar Jul 09 23:33:34 i'll setup my home server with asterisk again Jul 09 23:33:51 hm does a sip phone need port forwarding ? Jul 09 23:34:13 kd8ikt: depends on the firewall Jul 09 23:34:16 that would suck if on a hotspot... might need to work on openvpn as well Jul 09 23:34:32 ab0oo: Yes. But what's underneath is, unlike the other images, done correctly. Jul 09 23:35:15 mwester: what's the underlying window manager? Jul 09 23:35:18 QT? Jul 09 23:35:21 matchbox Jul 09 23:35:46 mwester: define "done correctly"? Jul 09 23:35:49 please. Jul 09 23:36:41 * kd8ikt starts drawling a picture Jul 09 23:36:55 drawing with drool? Jul 09 23:36:56 Correctly means the GSM is in operating in MUX mode, and the software handling the GSM (gsm0710muxd) is written using dbus Jul 09 23:37:34 or is it drawing Jul 09 23:37:39 Chocky: no, drawl, saying it like your from the american south Jul 09 23:37:45 And as just noted on the M.L. apparently the software knows to shut down the GSM even -- something none of the other images can do. Jul 09 23:37:45 s/your/you're Jul 09 23:37:48 which allows the WM to sleep deeply while the GSM module handles the network comms, and then the WM gets woken up via dbus? Jul 09 23:38:02 doc|home: I say it like my from the South Jul 09 23:38:09 mwester: it's a miracle! Jul 09 23:38:10 :p Jul 09 23:38:13 anyway Jul 09 23:38:18 Chocky: :/ Jul 09 23:38:23 it's been a long day :( Jul 09 23:38:23 Naw, no miracle - just done right :) Jul 09 23:38:27 I know :-( Jul 09 23:38:31 mwester: hehe :) Jul 09 23:38:45 so how to the other images talk to the GSM? direct to the /dev device? Jul 09 23:38:57 mwester: what's next? text messages? wonders will never cease :) Jul 09 23:39:47 ASU and Qtopia just talk right to the device. The 2007.2 image uses libgsmd -- which in the comments in the main source note that it's temporary and not intended for production use. Jul 09 23:39:57 GPRS is next. Jul 09 23:39:57 hah Jul 09 23:40:08 can it make calls yet? Jul 09 23:40:10 Airplane mode can't be far behind. Jul 09 23:40:30 is the GSM chip directly connected to mic and speaker? Jul 09 23:40:40 playya: no Jul 09 23:40:42 how about texts? personally I'll be happy once it can do those, wifi, has a web browser Jul 09 23:40:50 doc|home: I hear it makes calls just fine (just might have trobule ending the calls is all :P ) Jul 09 23:40:53 playya: it's connected to teh wolfsn media sound chip Jul 09 23:40:58 mwester: hah Jul 09 23:41:12 playya: which is horribly complex, and can route the inputs/outputs anywhere Jul 09 23:41:17 ah ok. wondered because it has analog input Jul 09 23:41:18 * mwester notes it's a very good sound chip, though. Jul 09 23:42:13 SpeedEvil: but has the added advantage of allowing you to switch off the mic so it can't be activated by the fuzz at their request Jul 09 23:42:36 >_> Any way to track your Freerunner? Jul 09 23:42:45 Jacen: what's your order number? Jul 09 23:42:47 yes, they send you a tracking number :p Jul 09 23:42:56 i just ask mickey about it because i want to implement some kind of GSM encryption as my bachelor thesis Jul 09 23:43:02 mwester: so is there a daemon that links the GSM module to the dbus? Jul 09 23:43:12 Err... They do? o_O; Jul 09 23:43:12 Jacen: they were up to the low 1200s this morning apparently Jul 09 23:43:13 ab0oo: In FSO, yes. Jul 09 23:43:28 Oh, lemme go get it quick. Jul 09 23:43:58 It's uhh.. 2433 Jul 09 23:44:01 Jacen: they do, once it ships Jul 09 23:44:04 heh Jul 09 23:44:05 Ah I see. Jul 09 23:44:06 Jacen: ouch. Jul 09 23:44:10 Jacen: probably won't be until tomorrow or friday Jul 09 23:44:10 you're better off than some. Jul 09 23:44:15 Haha, I got a ways to wait eh? :p Jul 09 23:44:16 before it's shipped Jul 09 23:44:17 not as bad as > 3000 though ;-) Jul 09 23:44:17 No worries. Jul 09 23:44:19 ab0oo: so if you write an application that want to do something with the GSM, like send an SMS for example, you just put the right stuff on the dbus, and it happens... Jul 09 23:44:20 * doc|work is 3032 :( Jul 09 23:44:27 Thanks Doc. Jul 09 23:44:30 np Jul 09 23:44:41 mwester: DBUS is just a message broker, right? Jul 09 23:44:48 analagous to maybe, JMS? Jul 09 23:44:52 Jacen: of course, that depends on how things went today, we're just guessing that based on 1000 shipped yesterday Jul 09 23:45:01 or thereabouts Jul 09 23:45:06 Ah I see. Jul 09 23:45:18 assuming they started at 0. I think they might have started at 1000 Jul 09 23:45:19 publishers and subscribers, etc? Jul 09 23:45:26 * Chocky hasn't seen any orders < 1000 Jul 09 23:45:28 Chocky: erk Jul 09 23:45:30 ab0oo: I don't know JMS, but yes, it's just a message bus. Jul 09 23:45:34 I think you're right, Chocky. Jul 09 23:45:42 hence the 100/day :-( Jul 09 23:45:50 bad Chocky :( Jul 09 23:45:52 I had a cron job that hit the web page every 10 minutes and diff'ed it against the previous hit. Jul 09 23:45:57 bad, but that's the evidence Jul 09 23:46:04 roh has said that the number list has gaps. Jul 09 23:46:09 I got woke up at 05:15 EDT and had my order in within about 20 minutes. Jul 09 23:46:12 that'd mean it won't get shipped until the end of the week after next :( Jul 09 23:46:28 ab0oo: and your number was? Jul 09 23:46:32 And does not reflect 1:! Jul 09 23:46:33 1040 Jul 09 23:46:37 ab0oo: bugger Jul 09 23:46:45 SpeedEvil: I hope those are big gaps :) Jul 09 23:46:55 so - who knows Jul 09 23:46:59 ab0oo: hahaha, that's dedication :D Jul 09 23:47:24 oh no Jul 09 23:47:27 he's back Jul 09 23:47:29 Howdy ya'll Jul 09 23:47:30 I was in a hotel room with the family on vacation, and woke up wife and kids. it was ugly, but I got it ordered Jul 09 23:47:34 I note again the shop number-graph says about 600 sold. Jul 09 23:47:35 Greetings doc :) Jul 09 23:47:37 * doc|work gets back to work Jul 09 23:47:39 :) Jul 09 23:47:44 heh Jul 09 23:47:49 ab0oo: hah Jul 09 23:47:50 What's new, Speedy? Jul 09 23:47:52 Who knows. Jul 09 23:48:13 Dave: very little. Jul 09 23:48:25 so, 2007.2 will eat batteries? Jul 09 23:48:34 Battery life at teh moment is very much a work in progress. Currently suspend is broken, so you get 6-12 hours depending on what's on. The hardware appears capable of doing a week standby, with 20 hours mp3, and 5 hours+ talk time. Jul 09 23:48:38 isnt there a 2008 build? Jul 09 23:48:54 :) Jul 09 23:49:14 can it charge via usb? Jul 09 23:49:18 good thing I have three batteries... Jul 09 23:49:25 it'll be on the charger 90% of the time. Jul 09 23:49:35 kd8ikt: yes Jul 09 23:49:40 kd8ikt: that's how I'm charging mine right now Jul 09 23:49:46 kd8ikt: only via USB. Jul 09 23:49:56 kd8ikt: well - or with a lab PSU. Jul 09 23:50:01 suspend isn't working on any of the stacks ? Jul 09 23:50:03 sweet cause a lil usb cable is easier to carry then a wall wart Jul 09 23:50:06 And a pair of croc-clips. Jul 09 23:50:35 roach clips Jul 09 23:51:10 la cucaracha Jul 09 23:51:10 I think it would be fair to say that s/w development should pick up rapidly now that the FR is in mass production. Jul 09 23:51:40 so they wont sell out like the neo did? Jul 09 23:51:51 and not only that.. the only people buying now are developers Jul 09 23:51:57 so that's what.. 1000 new (at least casual) developers? Jul 09 23:52:00 I suppose I could even try a little C/C++. I just hope it doesn't ruin my Java game the way tennis ruined my racquetball game Jul 09 23:52:21 ppppphhhhhttttttt!!!! Jul 09 23:52:51 mwester: is that the noise an enraged python makes? Jul 09 23:53:03 thanks, SpeedEvil, I was at a loss for a comeback. Jul 09 23:53:11 SpeedEvil: suspend isn't working on any of the stacks ? Jul 09 23:53:15 killed by strong java coffee Jul 09 23:53:27 i was thinking more along the lines of developing gui apps so you wont have to use cmdline all the time, like a wireless scanner/connector app like wlassistant Jul 09 23:53:33 CVirus: I have no real idea Jul 09 23:53:40 You know, once upon a tme it was the FORTRAN vs COBOL guys, now we have the JAVA programmers to pick on. Jul 09 23:53:44 or just port something like aphopper Jul 09 23:53:48 I don't really LIKE java, but it pays the bills. Well. Jul 09 23:53:52 Java, not JAVA :p Jul 09 23:53:53 CVirus: as far as I know - not at all on FR, it oopses Jul 09 23:53:53 find/connect to any open AP Jul 09 23:54:13 hmm Jul 09 23:54:25 and pointers scare the bejeezus out of me. Jul 09 23:54:43 * SpeedEvil points at ab0oo. Jul 09 23:54:49 Nah, I have no problem with Java; with sufficient memory and a fast enough CPU, it's a pretty good coding language. Jul 09 23:54:55 * doc|work looks here > < sees: > < Jul 09 23:55:35 mwester: in other words, don't use java on the freerunner :) Jul 09 23:55:39 unfortunately, most embedded systems have neither Jul 09 23:55:58 * Chocky goes home, sans tracking number Jul 09 23:56:08 although my UAV is built entirely in Java on a gumstix board. Jul 09 23:56:10 ab0oo: nah, in fairness, it has more than my motorola slvr and that has java Jul 09 23:56:14 I'm prejudiced, don't believe anything I say about Java. Jul 09 23:56:24 but I've got 128M of ram and a 600MHz board Jul 09 23:56:52 btw, is openmoko now about hardware? Jul 09 23:57:09 Hey everyone! Jul 09 23:57:17 Apparently they have never been about software -- that was kinda news to me too... Jul 09 23:57:22 doc|home: It's always been about hardware. Jul 09 23:57:22 doc|home: it's a way for FIC to sell phones. Jul 09 23:57:37 IMO. Jul 09 23:57:40 I thought it was about both. Jul 09 23:57:41 I thought it was about a software stack Jul 09 23:57:53 ~fso Jul 09 23:57:55 rumour has it, fso is the freesmartphone.org software release. It includes the backbone software for the phone hardware (and some other things) and a working dialer, and not much else. Jul 09 23:57:55 and openmoko != fic. Fic just made the phones afaik Jul 09 23:58:02 But they needed something that actually worked for the hardware launch. Jul 09 23:58:05 ~asu Jul 09 23:58:06 rumour has it, asu is the April Software Update, an release name for a OpenMoko distribution. See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/ASU_Feature_Plan. Jul 09 23:58:29 the message I got from raste r (no highlight) was that fic give openmoko almost no leverage nor influence with anyone :/ Jul 09 23:58:42 Grrr... one of those used to have the link to Mickey's comparison of the distros, it outlined OM's current posture on the software/hardware thing. Jul 09 23:58:43 so seems like a loose relationship Jul 09 23:58:46 http://www.enigma-replica.com/ wow... replica enigma machines Jul 09 23:59:51 The first thing I wanta do with my phone is write a simple accounting app for it. Jul 09 23:59:58 lol gonna use an enigma machine port to send sms? Jul 10 00:00:03 OMmoney? Jul 10 00:00:12 johngay: you could port gnumeric :) Jul 10 00:00:19 it's working on the n800 afaik Jul 10 00:00:25 Then I'll port my OpenGL Rubiks cube. Jul 10 00:00:36 for hours of frustration! Jul 10 00:00:37 :) Jul 10 00:00:38 Don't want anything that complicated. Jul 10 00:00:40 sweet with touchscreen functionality Jul 10 00:01:02 Or use the accelerometers to try to "jiggle" the cube into place. Jul 10 00:01:26 damn you, I was just about to say something similar. Use it to rotate the cube view Jul 10 00:01:37 Basically, you open "Accounts", and it gives you a list of your accounts and the option to create a new one. Jul 10 00:01:46 with too adventurous accelerometer games, we'll need a wrist strap on the thing Jul 10 00:01:54 and a warning on every single app telling people to put it on Jul 10 00:01:58 Hence the hole! Jul 10 00:02:07 yep, hardware designers were thinking ahead Jul 10 00:02:26 kd8ikt it is a pure electromechanical device Jul 10 00:02:46 You select an account and it shows you the current total. Then use the phone-type keypad to enter in the transaction, but you have 'Debit' and 'Credit' where the # and * keys should be. Jul 10 00:03:10 johngay: password protected I hope :/ Jul 10 00:03:40 Sure, just use your ATM pin (= Jul 10 00:03:46 apt, rumor has it, doc is not a real doctor. Jul 10 00:03:48 Dave: what are you talking about? Jul 10 00:03:51 is there a way to get a different keypad other than that horrible 1-9 abc def ghi style input? Jul 10 00:03:54 pretty much :P Jul 10 00:04:13 ab0oo: are you referring to the multitap-pad? Jul 10 00:04:22 last thing I need is to leave my phone in the cafe and have the cute girl there see that I spent lots fo money in a place called "Does your mother know?" which is a magazine store here which, surprisingly, sells very little porn relative to the rest of its selection. Jul 10 00:04:27 If so, then there is the highly experimental matchbox-keyboard :p Jul 10 00:04:33 Dave: I guess. I'm running 2007.2. Jul 10 00:04:44 how do I switch to it? Jul 10 00:05:00 see Switching_Keyboards on the wiki :] Jul 10 00:05:01 what's the underlying WM for the 2007.2 image? Jul 10 00:05:12 ah, yes, the wiki. :) Jul 10 00:05:26 Yep Jul 10 00:05:40 Let the wiki show you the path to enlightenment. Jul 10 00:05:50 * Dave giggles Jul 10 00:05:56 matchbox Jul 10 00:05:58 I prefer Kontact to Enlightenment. Jul 10 00:06:03 But what if I don't like enlightenment? Jul 10 00:06:07 go to the light Jul 10 00:06:12 try something else? Jul 10 00:06:18 Burn in the flames of truth? Jul 10 00:06:37 I prefer Qt Jul 10 00:06:39 then you have about 15 alternatives by the time you get your phone with the rate these things are springing up :) Jul 10 00:06:43 * johngay runs and hides! Jul 10 00:06:44 well, crap. I forced the removal, and then it couldn't find the keyboard. Jul 10 00:07:19 This will be my second app for FreeRunner http://wiki.gp2x.org/wiki/GP2X_Rubik's_Cube Jul 10 00:07:42 abooo, yep! Jul 10 00:07:52 bad form to put a ' in an url Jul 10 00:07:55 IT's not in the main repos (nor in any others I could find) Jul 10 00:08:02 I believe it was removed from wherever it originally sad Jul 10 00:08:06 you're a mean, mean man. Jul 10 00:08:08 someone said it was in Scaredy's repo Jul 10 00:08:11 no, I'm not :P Jul 10 00:08:16 I can up them if you want Jul 10 00:08:25 doc|work: it is a bad idea to forget your cell phone on a table. What if someone decides to send the following sms to everyone on your contact list :" i wanna f*ck you op the a** ".. That happened to a freid of mine Jul 10 00:08:30 :) Jul 10 00:08:30 Make it a %2E? Jul 10 00:08:35 Make it a %27 even. Jul 10 00:08:52 Sorry, wrong URL. http://archive.gp2x.de/cgi-bin/cfiles.cgi?0,0,0,0,25,2107 Jul 10 00:09:08 * Dave whee Jul 10 00:09:17 netsplit! Jul 10 00:09:37 Joerg. Jul 10 00:09:50 so sad mccaffrey.freenode :P Jul 10 00:09:53 Dave: yep? Jul 10 00:09:58 How goes? :) Jul 10 00:10:12 Anything new or important to mention? Jul 10 00:10:12 i'm on ipv6 and so far i dont think it has ever split Jul 10 00:10:24 Kd8ikt, congratulations. Jul 10 00:10:25 nah, trying to get a free day. you see where i ended ;-) Jul 10 00:10:29 ;D Jul 10 00:10:30 heehee Jul 10 00:10:39 Joerg, so busy. Jul 10 00:10:52 does the openmoko kernel have ipv6 compiled in? Jul 10 00:10:57 I have a neo1973 with a 28" screen. Jul 10 00:11:03 hot. Jul 10 00:11:07 * SpeedEvil has a huge lens. Jul 10 00:11:08 ~400 mails / day. just this enough of work Jul 10 00:11:18 wow :p Jul 10 00:11:26 You clearly do not need more :D Jul 10 00:11:36 Except maybe the occasional bugreport from us ;) Jul 10 00:11:46 or courtesy fix Jul 10 00:12:08 What do you think the chances are I can get IBM to cross-compile Sametime for the FreeRunner? (= Jul 10 00:12:29 * Dave shrugs Jul 10 00:13:10 it is a bad idea to forget your cell phone on a table. What if someone decides to send the following sms to everyone on your contact list :" i wanna f*ck you op the a** ".. That happened to a friend of mine. Jul 10 00:13:13 anyone know of an rdate server? Jul 10 00:13:51 Speedevil, so is it fine or reasonable to upgrade only the kernel on some phones (the packages & modules are kept up to date). Jul 10 00:13:51 You mean the software? Jul 10 00:15:58 By upgrade, I meant flash :P Jul 10 00:19:46 can opkg deal with ipkgs? Jul 10 00:20:50 It's the same thing. Jul 10 00:21:03 They just renamed it from ipkg to opkg to make it "cooler" Jul 10 00:21:04 :P Jul 10 00:21:59 hmm, what's the deal with the www.angstrom-distribution.org folks? Jul 10 00:22:01 ROFL Jul 10 00:22:10 hoenoes no more memoriez!1111 Jul 10 00:22:45 xsystem: ERROR: fork failed before execution: `rm -fr /tmp/opkg-JI9srr' Jul 10 00:22:52 WARNING: Unable to remove temporary directory: /tmp/opkg-JI9srr: Cannot allocate memory Jul 10 00:23:01 rut roh :p Jul 10 00:23:05 ouch. Jul 10 00:24:58 whats the size of the microsd card that it comes with? 256? 512 Jul 10 00:25:06 512 Jul 10 00:25:12 i need to buy one of those 8gig ones Jul 10 00:25:15 :p Jul 10 00:25:15 ;) Jul 10 00:25:23 Then allocate some for memory or something Jul 10 00:25:28 you're sure going to need it :D Jul 10 00:25:38 that and maybe add another cpu too while you're "upgrading" things :P Jul 10 00:25:41 few mp3's etc Jul 10 00:25:46 dual core freerunners anyone? Jul 10 00:26:04 Dave: they've got 7 cores. Jul 10 00:26:22 Dual core is over rated. I've got a dual core game console and it doesn't help much. Jul 10 00:26:25 anyone ever use the ipaq "cluster" that they used to have at MIT? Jul 10 00:26:58 heh Jul 10 00:27:04 closest I ever came to multi-core ARM processors Jul 10 00:27:13 johngay, of course it doesn't, because the GPU likely bottlenecks it, haha Jul 10 00:27:15 yay, my fr shipped :D Jul 10 00:27:17 stupid technology Jul 10 00:27:21 kdubois: hooray! Jul 10 00:27:31 ab0oo: haha *shudder* Jul 10 00:27:40 At work were having problems with a quad-core, quad- thread server. Jul 10 00:27:56 Man, I'm so bad -- I'm always trolling the package lists for new and exciting software :p Jul 10 00:28:02 That's the problem, the game console doesn't have a GPU. Jul 10 00:28:18 Just a 920 and 940. Jul 10 00:28:50 My game uses the 940 'as a' GPU, though. Jul 10 00:28:54 o.O Jul 10 00:30:00 GP2X has a dual core ARM, ab0oo Jul 10 00:39:24 ooh la la Jul 10 00:39:33 Sasoon! Jul 10 00:40:37 crap out of memory again -_- Jul 10 00:40:38 oi Jul 10 00:41:26 I find it utterly hilarious because no fj applications are running. Jul 10 00:41:57 swapon /media/card/swap Jul 10 00:42:24 pretty much, right? :P Jul 10 00:43:00 http://sbgswordforum.proboards70.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=5150 AUTCH! Jul 10 00:43:06 Hmm? Jul 10 00:43:13 more germans? Jul 10 00:46:46 has anyone on here recieved a ups tracking number yet? Jul 10 00:51:07 Arg0naut: I have, for order 1367. Jul 10 00:52:48 aw.. I had order 1479 .. I then reordered 8 hours later and now I'm in the 1700s Jul 10 00:53:31 rtm: when did you get the email? Jul 10 00:54:24 anyone work out a hack to extend battery life on the GTA01 Jul 10 00:54:31 Arg0naut!: 8:43 PM EDT (01:43 UT). Jul 10 00:54:34 Dave: will these work? http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/?name=matchbox&arch=armv4t&action=search Jul 10 00:56:11 is 2007.2 a ulibc or glibc build? how do I tell without sounding like a doofus on the irc channel? Jul 10 00:57:13 Too late (= Jul 10 00:57:21 worth a shot Jul 10 00:57:48 well, there's /lib/libc-2.6.1.so, and no /lib/ulibc... so I guess I can figure that out Jul 10 00:58:42 Will what work? Jul 10 00:59:01 the matchbox-keyboard packagfes from the angstrom distro Jul 10 00:59:10 oh! Jul 10 00:59:16 can I just grab the armv4t packages and have a nice day? Jul 10 00:59:30 probably, you need the inputmethod im and applet ones Jul 10 00:59:36 if you can get those, you should be golden. Jul 10 00:59:59 I'll let you know Jul 10 01:01:01 SpeedEvil: got a recent graph? Jul 10 01:01:51 Qwell: http://www.mauve.plus.com/Freerunner.gif Jul 10 01:01:54 (usual caveats) Jul 10 01:02:43 Qwell: ! Jul 10 01:03:07 russellb: file is peer pressuring me Jul 10 01:03:13 heh Jul 10 01:03:20 haha Jul 10 01:03:21 join the mokoiax project :-p Jul 10 01:04:38 so hey theres a few open gpio's eh? Jul 10 01:05:00 on the CPU? Jul 10 01:05:20 board stuff to add say... a thermister Jul 10 01:05:27 or something Jul 10 01:05:31 they exposed to nice solder n00b test points? Jul 10 01:09:44 thermister? a thermos used as a resistor? Jul 10 01:10:47 sweet got my tracking number Jul 10 01:12:01 well, now I have no input at all. :) Jul 10 01:12:05 Daviey: measures temp Jul 10 01:12:28 I know :p Jul 10 01:12:35 ab0oo: did you reboot the phone? Jul 10 01:12:38 he was just being a smart ass Jul 10 01:12:41 I restarted X Jul 10 01:12:44 Indeedy :p Jul 10 01:12:45 does that count? Jul 10 01:12:47 :P Jul 10 01:12:47 ab0oo: no Jul 10 01:12:51 O RLY? Jul 10 01:12:52 reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeboooooooooooooooooot Jul 10 01:12:58 YES REALLY, MOTHERFUCKER. Jul 10 01:13:03 the system has to reinit Jul 10 01:13:09 lolz this aint windows where a reboot fixes everything Jul 10 01:13:10 ok, I'll reboot. Let's pretend it's a windows machine for a minute Jul 10 01:13:16 heh Jul 10 01:13:17 haha, huhuhu Jul 10 01:19:01 oooh... 1367 has shipped? only 92 short of my 1459... Jul 10 01:19:31 Dave: no love. I'm installing scaredyCat next. Perhaps that will give me more love Jul 10 01:19:45 Aww Jul 10 01:19:48 Dude Jul 10 01:19:58 So you're installing his packages, or flashing your image? Jul 10 01:20:12 I'm going to flash his image Jul 10 01:20:23 I installed the packages from the angstrom repos Jul 10 01:20:46 I didnt see anything in x.log about them not working, but I didn't see any thing about them working, either Jul 10 01:21:05 oh :| Jul 10 01:21:11 Where can I get info I need to develop a game for this phone, I use Linux Jul 10 01:21:15 if you want before you flash I can send you them Jul 10 01:21:15 Like screen res etc Jul 10 01:21:23 Otherwise, go ahead and flash a different image. Jul 10 01:21:31 what image are you using? Jul 10 01:21:51 Presently? latest om-devel image Jul 10 01:21:56 for gta02 Jul 10 01:22:01 bleh make setup craps out Jul 10 01:22:11 the keyboard app was built against fso but works fine :D Jul 10 01:22:33 well, as much as v.0.0a software can work :D Jul 10 01:22:53 so, are all of the images based on angstrom as a base distro? Jul 10 01:23:14 Don't think so Jul 10 01:25:42 I've got quite a bit of faith in the angstrom guys that came over from simpad and openembedded Jul 10 01:25:51 ab0oo: yes, Angstrom is the core, but more or less of the user-space apps are present. Jul 10 01:26:13 mwester: that makes sense. stand on the shoulders of giants, and all that Jul 10 01:26:26 is android based on angstrom, too? Jul 10 01:26:29 Qtopia doesn't use much beyond the base OS; the other distros use things like matchbox, etc. Jul 10 01:26:39 No, android is not angstrom at all. Jul 10 01:27:03 is it a distro, or a framework? I'm not up on the mechanations of google. Jul 10 01:27:07 abooo, so can I be of service, or are you going ahead? Jul 10 01:27:25 Dave: I'm going to plow into the ScaredyCat image. Jul 10 01:27:27 thanks for the offer. Jul 10 01:27:55 if I wind up floundering, I'll bail back to om-gta02 and come grovelling for help Jul 10 01:28:30 okay :D Jul 10 01:28:35 I hear lots of good stuff from it. Jul 10 01:28:47 ab0oo, haha alright, sounds good :) Jul 10 01:28:53 Sure thing Jul 10 01:29:07 I'm hoping to create a bunch of pseudo packages soon to be dist Jul 10 01:29:53 have you ever distro'ed before? it's one of those things that I started on a whim, and got death threats when I stopped updating it regularly. Jul 10 01:30:31 I ran a distro for some openWRT stuff before they moved to the new Kamikaze packaging system, and people get really irritable if I fell more than 1 minor revision behind Jul 10 01:31:04 A repo, not a distro. Jul 10 01:33:57 hah Jul 10 01:34:02 picky people :p Jul 10 01:34:15 when run opkg update that show "Signature check failed",where we can get more information Jul 10 01:36:04 yeah it'll do that a bunch Jul 10 01:36:06 just ignore it Jul 10 01:36:19 it's a stupid yet to be removed issue with opkg Jul 10 01:36:38 thanks for the help tonight. bbl Jul 10 01:44:46 SpeedEvil: If I provided the GTA01 with 6.8v (through the contacts not USB) could the hardware limit it to the 3.4v? Jul 10 01:45:16 KrisAbsinthe: Ir could. Jul 10 01:45:37 KrisAbsinthe: it may also explode. Jul 10 01:45:45 o_o Jul 10 01:45:46 SpeedEvil: still trying to figure out how to get a couple days out of this battery. Jul 10 01:45:48 KrisAbsinthe: through what contacts? Jul 10 01:46:07 Build a better battery! Jul 10 01:46:07 the battery contacts Jul 10 01:46:11 oh actually that's a great idea Jul 10 01:46:24 Perhaps a bettery pack :P Jul 10 01:46:27 heehee Jul 10 01:47:00 KrisAbsinthe: connect a large 12V battery to the USB port. Jul 10 01:47:00 KrisAbsinthe: using a car USB adaptor Jul 10 01:47:13 hah Jul 10 01:48:47 I've had my neo running from that for 24h Jul 10 01:48:49 I have a adapter thats good for my car, Im going to HOPE and will e bumming around NYC. I know there are solar chargers, but I want something that is attached to the phone directly Jul 10 01:49:42 KrisAbsinthe: dealextreme.com have some 'USB batteries' that may suit. Jul 10 01:52:13 not a bad idea thanks Jul 10 01:57:41 :) Jul 10 01:59:51 hi guys...i just bought an open moko, woo hoo Jul 10 02:00:21 yay Jul 10 02:02:15 wonder what revision i'll end up getting Jul 10 02:04:10 Can someone tell me where we are supposed to put keys for svn on projects.openmoko.org ? Jul 10 02:13:10 heh Jul 10 02:14:28 Oh, found it. Jul 10 02:16:15 oh good! Jul 10 02:16:32 Dave, are you a lead dev or something Jul 10 02:17:24 No, though I'm still contributing :) Jul 10 02:17:47 I think you spend an unhealthy amount of time in here :P Jul 10 02:19:10 kd8ikt: at the moment they're all gta02v5 Jul 10 02:19:52 I thank you :) Jul 10 02:20:21 Hmpf, how long does it take for projects.openmoko.org to refresh correctly the keys ? Jul 10 02:20:34 ok alpha Jul 10 02:20:46 Ainulindale: About an hour Jul 10 02:21:16 Ok then I should get a coffee Jul 10 02:21:25 It's 4:20 AM here, can't sleep. Jul 10 02:21:44 Ainulindale: It's the same here :) Jul 10 02:27:22 Yep but you guys are too far in the north, no wonder you can't sleep without knowing what hour of the day it is by looking at the sky :-p Jul 10 02:27:50 ;) Jul 10 02:27:54 how to check my phone is gta02v5? Jul 10 02:27:55 heehee Jul 10 02:28:17 remove the battery maybe Jul 10 02:28:34 * ebbe wishes for darkness Jul 10 02:30:49 guess not Jul 10 02:32:28 ChandleWEi: did you purchase it? Jul 10 02:33:44 ChandleWEi: have a look here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware#GTA02v4 Jul 10 02:34:00 not sure where you'd find the 'ATAG' info though. but that might help Jul 10 02:34:40 ChandleWEi: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware#Distinguishing_hardware_revisions Jul 10 02:36:25 SpeedEvil: yes, I got it yesterday. Jul 10 02:36:36 alphabeat: thx Jul 10 02:36:52 What order numbers have shipped so far? Jul 10 02:37:59 Subject: UPS Ship Notification, Tracking Number Jul 10 02:38:01 yay :) Jul 10 02:38:06 patience Jul 10 02:38:11 my order number was #1344 Jul 10 02:38:25 I'm 1412, so close! Jul 10 02:38:43 I'm in the 1800's myself... And I just lost my cell phone today. Jul 10 02:39:17 from the sound of things, you ordered a project, not a phone :P Jul 10 02:39:24 you best buy a cheap one to use until the software is ready, rivalarrival Jul 10 02:39:45 got my tracking a few hours ago :D Jul 10 02:39:52 mwester: sink or swim! :-) Jul 10 02:40:02 SirBob1701: what order #? Jul 10 02:40:11 If I have to, I'll pick up a prepaid to replace it. Jul 10 02:40:38 so... you dont intend to help you just want to reap the rewards? Jul 10 02:40:58 brr thats cold Jul 10 02:41:08 Huh? Jul 10 02:41:27 kd8ikt: Were you talking to me? Jul 10 02:41:47 how large microSD openmoko support? just 512mb? Jul 10 02:42:03 talking to anyone it applies to Jul 10 02:42:14 ChandleWEi: I've heard people have used 8gb 0 but can't verify. Jul 10 02:42:40 kd8ikt: So, your answer is "no"? Jul 10 02:42:43 :-) Jul 10 02:44:42 someone yesterday told me they were using a 8GB microSDHC so "yes" i believe :D Jul 10 02:44:56 forget who though :P Jul 10 02:45:02 * Dave hides Jul 10 02:45:39 logs tell me rtm said it Jul 10 02:45:50 in his 1973 not a FR Jul 10 02:46:01 sandisk to be specific Jul 10 02:46:08 i dont se why a FR wouldnt then Jul 10 02:46:12 yup Jul 10 02:47:19 omg looking through projects.om looks like a lot of work needs to be done Jul 10 02:47:54 love how some1 writes "i want it to be a hamadio as well" Jul 10 02:47:56 alphabeat: thx Jul 10 02:48:07 and it wasnt me! Jul 10 02:49:38 Yeah, it needs a 440 transceiver and a custom TNC Jul 10 02:49:54 heh hey lets throw in a kitchen sink aswell? Jul 10 02:50:06 or, a 440/145 dualbander Jul 10 02:50:19 and i thought it was thick enough already Jul 10 02:50:35 Basically, I want a GSM module for my eeepc. :) Jul 10 02:51:24 that'd be a mighty big phone Jul 10 02:51:40 g an eeepc upto your ear Jul 10 02:51:57 imagine holding an * Jul 10 02:52:05 Bluetooth headset. Jul 10 02:52:19 where can I find usually software to install? Jul 10 02:52:22 note to self: add bluetooth to eeepc Jul 10 02:52:40 lol yeah it doesnt have that Jul 10 02:52:55 just freakin amazing howmuch hardware they packed into the FR Jul 10 02:53:49 mkaes my head spin Jul 10 02:54:20 http://beta.ivancover.com/wiki/index.php/Eee_PC_Internal_Upgrades Jul 10 02:54:56 hrm Jul 10 02:54:57 yeah thats neat dropping in an extra usb bus and usb modules Jul 10 02:55:12 There's actually quite a bit of room left in that tiny case. Jul 10 02:55:15 hub/bus same diff Jul 10 02:55:55 http://people.openmoko.org/tony_tu/GTA02/certificate/EUNGTA02_850_1800_1900/FD7O1101_R01_15B_FIC_GTA02.pdf Jul 10 02:56:32 hah, that again :P Jul 10 02:56:34 speaking of ham radio - I got my Neo to send an APRS report a couple of weeks ago (through my Icom handheld). Jul 10 02:56:35 thanks linuxxr :P Jul 10 02:56:58 when I type opkg list the software is too many to select ,have anyone suggest me some software to install Jul 10 02:57:48 for the english Jul 10 02:58:01 ipkg list |less Jul 10 02:58:52 thats cool mmontour Jul 10 02:59:35 :P Jul 10 02:59:44 Yeah, so I need to get my ham license. Again. Jul 10 02:59:53 but this https://projects.openmoko.org/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=38 just makes me laugh **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jul 10 02:59:57 2008