**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jul 13 02:59:57 2008 Jul 13 03:06:09 http://joewing.net/programs/jwm/screenshots/jwm-2.0.png Jul 13 03:06:44 http://joewing.net/programs/jwm/#description Jul 13 04:11:25 * tessier plays with his new phone Jul 13 04:11:32 Let's see if we can get it to work with AT&T... Jul 13 04:20:27 let me know Jul 13 04:23:20 moo Jul 13 04:25:06 KrisAbsinthe_: It worked! Jul 13 04:25:10 tessier: you got it already?!? Jul 13 04:25:17 tessier: what order # are you? Jul 13 04:25:18 KrisAbsinthe_: Took some fooling around and had a couple false starts but I can make and receive phone calls. Jul 13 04:25:22 1345 :p Jul 13 04:25:32 ozzloy: Umm...I did a group buy. Yeah. Thanks Chocky! :) Jul 13 04:25:51 tessier: did you get a discount as a result? Jul 13 04:26:10 Now I've got it on the network from my desktop via usb. I can ssh to it and get prompted for a root password but when I hit enter at the presumably blank root password it just seems to hang. Jul 13 04:26:21 just shy of $400 inc tax and shipping Jul 13 04:26:48 for the phone, or phone+stuff? Jul 13 04:26:53 incl stuff Jul 13 04:26:58 ooOOooh Jul 13 04:26:59 phone plus all the charger, headset, other doodads. Jul 13 04:27:12 The dog loves the laser pointer in the pen/stylud. Jul 13 04:27:13 stylud Jul 13 04:27:17 stylus! Jul 13 04:27:22 tessier: sweet thanks Jul 13 04:27:22 heh Jul 13 04:28:03 i work for a company that makes very tiny cameras. do you guys have interest in putting a camera in the next hardware revision? Jul 13 04:28:17 i'll poke around at work if there's interest Jul 13 04:28:17 It would be almost expected Jul 13 04:28:28 since at that time, _everyone_ will have one Jul 13 04:28:34 Hrm...can't ssh in. Jul 13 04:28:43 exactly, I think a company should make "snap ins" for the existing models too Jul 13 04:29:13 ozzloy: from what i can remember, gta03 is supposed ot have a camera, so you might want to contact openmoko if you think you're company would make a good fit.. Jul 13 04:29:28 nullpuppy: kk Jul 13 04:29:58 tessier: when did you get your precious? Jul 13 04:30:10 ozzloy: This afternoon around 6:30 Jul 13 04:30:13 evening I guess Jul 13 04:30:16 Around 3 hours ago. Jul 13 04:30:28 i won't have mine until monday :( Jul 13 04:30:52 if ups was open tomorrow, i suppose i could drive to the hub, but.. meh, i think i can wait one more day. Jul 13 04:31:03 have a ton of stuff to do anyways Jul 13 04:32:26 heh Jul 13 04:39:17 ah! It was my crazy ssh alias trying to automatically install my pubkey on the remote host (my freerunner, in this case) that was causing the login to appear to fail. Whee... Jul 13 04:39:19 I'm in! Jul 13 04:39:22 hm, mplayer a bit messed up Jul 13 04:41:57 -fbdev better. Jul 13 04:42:05 just need to rotate now :p Jul 13 04:44:30 hm, need to trancode to 640x480 Jul 13 04:44:37 playing shrek on FR :o Jul 13 04:45:47 Chocky: haha, how well does it play? Jul 13 04:46:10 okish. but I'd trancoded it real small for my GPS which has low res Jul 13 04:46:18 hmm... opkg update is telling me "Signature check failed" Jul 13 04:46:25 some guy's done some work for mplayer, which makes it work a lot better Jul 13 04:46:37 tessier: yeah, dunno, seems to work though Jul 13 04:46:51 alright, cool Jul 13 04:47:07 Chocky: Well, after it says that a few times it them says "An error ocurred, return value: 8. Collected errors: Jul 13 04:47:07 Failed to download http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/all/Packages.gz, error 0" Jul 13 04:47:24 And it has a Failed to download message for each of the Packages.gz and Packages.sig it tried to download. Jul 13 04:47:37 yeh. was working early this morning Jul 13 04:47:51 Chocky: u r playing a movie on the FR? Jul 13 04:47:52 but downloading the packages does work Jul 13 04:47:55 aye Jul 13 04:47:57 ah, perhaps it's a dns problem... Jul 13 04:49:49 doh...I haven't even shared my network connection via nat yet. That's why. Jul 13 04:50:32 getting excited lol Jul 13 04:53:33 Chocky: i thought that wasnt supposed to be possible yet, what build are you using? Jul 13 04:53:53 qtopia. opkg install mplayer Jul 13 04:54:11 mplayer vo fbdev /media/card/shrek.mpg -vf rotate=1 Jul 13 04:54:19 mplayer -vo fbdev /media/card/shrek.mpg -vf rotate=1 Jul 13 04:57:11 Chocky: did you get yours with the consumer release? Jul 13 04:57:15 yes Jul 13 04:57:27 i want to be you Jul 13 04:57:38 careful what you wish for :p Jul 13 04:57:51 :) Jul 13 04:58:08 ah thats better! Jul 13 04:58:20 WHERE IS MY FRICKEN PHONE!! Jul 13 04:58:23 *sigh* Jul 13 04:58:37 hehe j/k Jul 13 04:58:50 victory over the 1973, solar pannel finished Jul 13 05:02:00 Are there any Amateur radio people in here? Jul 13 05:02:22 Be cool to have a echolink or like client on the openmoko Jul 13 05:02:38 Im getting my licence nest week Jul 13 05:02:43 right on Jul 13 05:02:45 Where you at Jul 13 05:02:45 next* Jul 13 05:02:48 Ohio Jul 13 05:02:52 nice Jul 13 05:03:00 How are you studying? Jul 13 05:03:05 book? Jul 13 05:03:19 I found the hamtestonline.com to be the best way Jul 13 05:03:33 Used a podcast for the tech and about to cram the general down my skull with qrz.com Jul 13 05:03:38 nice Jul 13 05:03:47 I use the online web for my general and extra Jul 13 05:03:57 got my tech & novice back in 89 Jul 13 05:04:01 with code Jul 13 05:04:05 damn..I was 9 Jul 13 05:04:08 hahah Jul 13 05:04:12 I just turned 40 today Jul 13 05:04:14 @!#($!@)#($&!@#$&)@(!#$ Jul 13 05:04:40 but yeah, I think echolink would be sweet on here Jul 13 05:04:48 I think so too Jul 13 05:05:00 carrar: echolink doesn't seem to be open-source Jul 13 05:05:02 some sort of client like that Jul 13 05:05:15 I think the protocol is Jul 13 05:05:17 maybe Jul 13 05:05:25 I actualy don't know Jul 13 05:05:33 lol Jul 13 05:05:52 I bet IRLP is Jul 13 05:06:10 that would be just as good Jul 13 05:06:16 Good chance on that one Jul 13 05:06:30 if there is Linux code available that would be great lol Jul 13 05:06:44 They should build a PPT button into the next phone Jul 13 05:06:48 PTT Jul 13 05:06:57 or "let go to listen" Jul 13 05:06:57 like those nexttel phones Jul 13 05:07:00 could code the aux button to do it Jul 13 05:07:01 yeha Jul 13 05:07:04 ok Jul 13 05:07:12 completely programmable? Jul 13 05:07:15 The packet-radio (ax25) suff compiles on the Neo without too much difficulty, but there's a bug with the OSS sound driver that prevents the 'soundmodem' software TNC from working properly Jul 13 05:07:23 I don't have my freerunner yet Jul 13 05:07:34 I did manage to send an APRS report a few weeks ago Jul 13 05:07:56 that would be cool to setup like a peer to peer walkie network Jul 13 05:08:00 i don't have a FR yet but i was wondering does anyone use theirs as a tether for a laptop et al? Jul 13 05:08:10 So...what's the status of 802.11 networking on the freerunner? I don't see any info on accessing the net via 802.11 on the wiki or basic googling Jul 13 05:08:11 Need a flex radio in the openmoko Jul 13 05:08:13 heh Jul 13 05:08:19 so it can to APRS Jul 13 05:08:21 do Jul 13 05:08:40 tessier: it's a bit bust in default image. Jul 13 05:08:49 is it possible to have it server as a femtocell :) ? Jul 13 05:08:51 can you poke with iwconfig etc Jul 13 05:08:56 it can do it with the help of my icom handheld and a custom cable. Jul 13 05:08:59 *serve Jul 13 05:09:08 woo Jul 13 05:09:13 that could be interesting Jul 13 05:09:20 feed it gps points Jul 13 05:09:28 this was on a Neo1973, but it should work on Freerunner too Jul 13 05:09:31 packet radio on the FR lol Jul 13 05:09:38 heheh Jul 13 05:09:48 make a nice TNC controller Jul 13 05:09:50 heh Jul 13 05:10:28 hamateur eadio Jul 13 05:11:00 <- W7RSZ Jul 13 05:11:18 VE7ABP here Jul 13 05:11:33 WOAh and they come out of the wood work! Jul 13 05:11:33 :) Jul 13 05:11:49 woo just north of me too Jul 13 05:12:16 well hello tim & mike Jul 13 05:12:23 :) Hi James! Jul 13 05:12:50 you should pop into #hamradio with me & KrisAbsinthe_ Jul 13 05:12:57 mmontour: where are you Jul 13 05:12:58 and a ton of others Jul 13 05:13:11 Ah, Bellevue. That is quite close. (I'm in Vancouver, BC) Jul 13 05:13:51 yeah Jul 13 05:13:57 whose in bellevue? i'm in bothell Jul 13 05:14:05 I actually have my Samurai Sushi shirt on too Jul 13 05:14:09 from Vancounver Jul 13 05:14:12 (sp) Jul 13 05:16:59 enough from me. return to the frustration tomorrow Jul 13 05:26:08 mmontour, what do you do for work in Vancouver? Jul 13 05:26:23 anyone try that debian fro the 1973 Jul 13 05:30:19 * tessier upgrades his software Jul 13 05:30:26 The wiki says wireless works but needs manual configurign Jul 13 05:30:28 So that's next Jul 13 05:31:42 uh Jul 13 05:32:13 So while upgrading the ssh server it turned off ssh which disconnected me which killed the upgrade process and now I can't ssh backin Jul 13 05:32:16 Not so smart Jul 13 05:32:27 So now I get to use the "console" and tap tap tap my way to restarting ssh Jul 13 05:33:06 Is the Openmoko AGPS UI program preloaded somewhere on the Freerunner, or must it be installed? Jul 13 05:33:19 rtm: Must be installed Jul 13 05:33:26 Just a sec...I've got a url... Jul 13 05:33:40 tessier: Thanks! Jul 13 05:33:49 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner#The_Package_Contents Jul 13 05:33:57 It mentions installing the gps stuff Jul 13 05:34:03 That's an invaluable page for getting started Jul 13 05:34:33 I recomend TangGPS.org Jul 13 05:34:44 You mean tangogps.org? Jul 13 05:34:58 yes lol Jul 13 05:35:03 The url I gave mentions how to install tango gps too Jul 13 05:35:11 I installed it but haven't yet gone outside to pick up a gps signal to see if it works Jul 13 05:35:20 KrisAbsinthe: Yes, I have that running, and it works well. I'm just interested in checking out any other AGSP code that's available. Jul 13 05:35:30 yup Jul 13 05:35:55 how is the battery life currently? Jul 13 05:36:50 How do I get a / on the standard keyboard? Jul 13 05:37:28 I need to do a ./sshd to restart my ssh Jul 13 05:37:31 Or I could reboot I guess.. Jul 13 05:38:33 I dont know if they ever fixed the OSKB. it lacked the / the num pad style one has it Jul 13 05:38:52 num pad style one is default right? Jul 13 05:38:58 Where is / on that one? Jul 13 05:39:05 I haven't installed the full keyboard thing yet Jul 13 05:39:15 in the + Jul 13 05:39:23 3 times i think Jul 13 05:39:47 I just get 3 +'s Jul 13 05:39:47 dont allways work though Jul 13 05:40:02 you in terminal Jul 13 05:40:08 yes Jul 13 05:40:19 let me check Jul 13 05:40:52 not working damnit Jul 13 05:41:00 its the little things Jul 13 05:41:15 Ok...so how do I reboot this thing so it automatically restarts ssh? :) Jul 13 05:41:18 does openmoko identify the wireless network and connects automatically? Jul 13 05:41:23 Holding down the power button isn't doing anything.... Jul 13 05:41:26 owen1: Unfortunately, no. Jul 13 05:41:28 owen1: Just a sec... Jul 13 05:41:35 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_wlan Jul 13 05:41:44 I'm about to give the wireless a try myself, after I fix my broken ssh Jul 13 05:42:06 pressing the power should bring up a menu Jul 13 05:42:09 tessier: so whenever u go somewhere with wireless u need to mess aroung with a config file? Jul 13 05:42:21 owen1: I don't know... Jul 13 05:42:35 not if you add essid="any" Jul 13 05:42:40 and its open Jul 13 05:42:52 tessier: (-: when did u get your phone and what are u plan of doing with it? Jul 13 05:44:14 owen1: I got it 4 hours ago. I plan to use my phone like a phone and make phone calls with it. Jul 13 05:44:28 If wireless and gps and other stuff works so much the better. Jul 13 05:44:47 i hope to use mine to take over the world Jul 13 05:45:01 or at least as a gprs wlan access point Jul 13 05:45:05 for my laptop Jul 13 05:45:26 tessier: do u have to use t-mobile carrier to make phone calls? Jul 13 05:46:01 tessier: (i assumed u'r in the us) Jul 13 05:46:02 owen1: You can use any gsm carrier you want as far as I know. I use AT&T/Cingular Jul 13 05:46:47 neocon doesnt seem to work Jul 13 05:47:37 tessier: so if u have AT&T all you need is to move your sim card into the moko? Jul 13 05:47:53 owen1: That's what I did and it worked. Jul 13 05:48:28 tessier: so out of the box, it's working as phone? no issues? Jul 13 05:48:35 owen1: Correct Jul 13 05:48:46 tessier: cool Jul 13 05:48:51 So far. I've only made 3 or 4 calls with it. Haven't tested bluetooth and other stuff. But so far so good Jul 13 05:49:21 tessier: are u in the US? Jul 13 05:49:33 tessier: how much did it cost? Jul 13 05:49:47 owen1: I am in the US. I did a group buy. $196 including shipping and tax etc. Jul 13 05:49:48 er... Jul 13 05:49:49 396 Jul 13 05:50:55 tessier: is there a way to make calls without a carrier? Jul 13 05:51:09 sip over wifi? Jul 13 05:51:21 not yet Jul 13 05:51:35 tessier: and is it thicker than iphon? Jul 13 05:51:40 iphone Jul 13 05:52:19 the iPhone customer base is not suitable typically for a openmoko Jul 13 05:52:25 thats been my findings Jul 13 05:52:52 owen1: Just slightly Jul 13 05:53:01 tessier: nice Jul 13 05:53:10 It's a very nice size/shape Jul 13 05:53:26 tessier: too bad i am with verizon.. Jul 13 05:53:39 switch Jul 13 05:54:16 get a prepaid SIM for the FR Jul 13 05:54:26 carrar: isn't it the edge network? Jul 13 05:54:40 KrisAbsinthe_: are u talking to me? Jul 13 05:54:58 onlined limited by your phone Jul 13 05:55:00 only Jul 13 05:55:17 I have a cigular/AT&T HSPDA card Jul 13 05:55:29 it streams a constant 1mbps Jul 13 05:55:33 doesn't verizon have a gsm network? Jul 13 05:56:00 nibbler: i don't know Jul 13 05:56:21 owen1: yeah, buy a FR if you want one and get a prepaid At&T phone(walmart $15) use the sim from that for the FR until you switch to a GSM provider Jul 13 05:56:44 nibbler: No verizon is TDMA/CDMA Jul 13 05:56:50 mhh. i see. Jul 13 05:57:46 KrisAbsinthe_: what is FR? Jul 13 05:58:27 Fruit Rollups? Jul 13 05:58:36 maybe France Jul 13 06:00:02 FR = Freerunner Jul 13 06:00:17 exactly Jul 13 06:00:42 I got tired of typing that a week after they announced the name Jul 13 06:04:16 can someone give me their output of /etc/proc/apm Jul 13 06:04:19 how much do i need to pay for AT&T for the data plan? Jul 13 06:04:45 they have $60 for unlimited, maybe less with a new signup Jul 13 06:07:18 is it reasnable to buy FR just for it's wifi/gps capabilities (since i am not going to switch from Verison)? Jul 13 06:07:48 depends how much you like linux Jul 13 06:08:26 KrisAbsinthe_: i just switched to debian (from ubuntu) and enjoy tweaking it. Jul 13 06:08:42 thats not bad Jul 13 06:08:59 the 60$/at&t plan Jul 13 06:09:21 even the Neo1973 is good for GPS. Thats all I use it for, other than ettercap lol Jul 13 06:09:39 owen1: i'm going to use my work bb's sim for the FR Jul 13 06:10:06 KrisAbsinthe_: ettercap eh? What do you do with that? Jul 13 06:10:32 check my LAN Jul 13 06:11:08 for what? Jul 13 06:11:24 are there different browsers to choose from and are the usable? Jul 13 06:11:33 the=they Jul 13 06:11:50 non-local traffic Jul 13 06:12:54 KrisAbsinthe_: aliens? Jul 13 06:13:27 lol, wardrivers Jul 13 06:13:47 had to switch computers Jul 13 06:15:36 Wow, opkg upgrade sure takes a while Jul 13 06:15:49 is surfing the web convinient? is the browser usable? Jul 13 06:16:13 owen1: I haven't really tried it yet. I just got my personal site to come up then moved on to upgrading software Jul 13 06:16:49 does the qtopia stack use webkit? Jul 13 06:19:34 does it have a protection case? is it sturdy? Jul 13 06:20:41 owen1: Seems pretty study to me. More sturdy than my Treo IMHO Jul 13 06:20:50 I like the rounded shape and rubberized edges. Jul 13 06:21:00 Not really rubber but bouncy plastic Jul 13 06:21:08 Seems like it would fare well in a drop Jul 13 06:21:31 I dropped my 1973 from waist height Jul 13 06:21:45 * tessier runs opkg upgrade from the console terminal instead of via ssh so the ssh upgrade doesn't cut me off and kill the upgrade process Jul 13 06:24:12 well, I am putting the 2007.1 image on my neo lol Jul 13 06:25:11 niklauz: qtopia 4.4 will Jul 13 06:25:11 * tessier wonders what image he is currently running Jul 13 06:25:14 Hopefully something recent. Jul 13 06:25:37 yeah, 7-9-08 Jul 13 06:27:04 my brain is acting weird Jul 13 06:27:37 when you said "putting", I read it as you would read "a putting green" Jul 13 06:28:07 lol Jul 13 06:28:36 hi Jul 13 06:28:44 to tweak it u connect it via usb to your computer and ssh into it? Jul 13 06:28:51 yup Jul 13 06:29:05 * niklauz tips hat at lpotter Jul 13 06:29:33 You know what is my favorite part of the freerunner phone? Jul 13 06:29:35 actually, do u have to be connected with usb or maybe wireless connection will be enough? Jul 13 06:29:42 The pet exerciser. Jul 13 06:30:01 does anyone have the freerunner yet? Jul 13 06:30:08 any network connection could be configured, i use Bluetooth most the time Jul 13 06:30:11 owen1: wireless is enough but it seems at this point you have to configure the wireless via the usb net connection Jul 13 06:30:16 geekgirl: Yes, lots have it Jul 13 06:30:21 Including me Jul 13 06:30:37 know of any promotional deals or discounts or anything? Jul 13 06:30:51 tessier: you shuold blog about your experinentation. Jul 13 06:31:09 geekgirl: The group buy Jul 13 06:31:18 geekgirl: Buy 10 and get a discount. Jul 13 06:31:21 how much do you save on the group buy? Jul 13 06:31:23 So round up 9 friends who want a phone Jul 13 06:31:32 uh...I don't recall. Check the wiki Jul 13 06:31:36 thanks Jul 13 06:31:51 trying to buy it for a friend Jul 13 06:32:06 they should do a trade-in for the 1973, I added solar panels though Jul 13 06:32:16 hmmm Jul 13 06:32:18 I did an opkg upgrade Jul 13 06:32:21 can it play video? vlc/mplayer? Jul 13 06:32:25 And it seems to be writing the new kernel to flash and everything Jul 13 06:32:31 So is this the same as upgrading the image? Jul 13 06:32:58 owen1: Yes Jul 13 06:33:01 owen1: mplayer Jul 13 06:33:10 KrisAbsinthe: solar eh? Very cool. Jul 13 06:33:29 Wow, my phone just rebooted all by itself. Presumably part of the upgrade. Jul 13 06:33:38 trying to add battery life, so far about 20% we will see lol Jul 13 06:34:19 Hopefully someday we can coat the surfaces of everything with solar panels Jul 13 06:34:20 KrisAbsinthe, you should definitely get the device to output more than it inputs Jul 13 06:34:30 If the whole phone were coated with solar I wonder how much power it would get Jul 13 06:34:36 I've learned that's a key principle in the design of any machine Jul 13 06:34:47 Probably not much since mine is always in my pocket. Except when I sleep which is at night when it wouldn't get much solar power either. :) Jul 13 06:34:54 I would like to balance it out to 1:1 lol not gonna happen though Jul 13 06:34:57 Pocket Power? Jul 13 06:35:10 KrisAbsinthe, move to phoenix? Jul 13 06:35:32 ACK, I hate heat. Jul 13 06:36:56 how is the touch screen? in it responsive and easy to use? Jul 13 06:37:04 owen1: yes Jul 13 06:37:07 It is very nice Jul 13 06:37:08 pocket powe sounds a little dirty Jul 13 06:37:19 yeah it does Jul 13 06:37:43 ok the 2007.1 image sucks Jul 13 06:37:50 though there is research relating to using kinetic energy in clothing to generate electricity Jul 13 06:38:35 pocket power sounds cool. I've never quite understood how self-winding watches and other kinetic power stuff worked Jul 13 06:38:44 krisabsinthe, lol :( Jul 13 06:39:13 Who follows an lol with a :( ? Jul 13 06:39:29 Manic depressives. Jul 13 06:39:30 My dog died! :) I won the lottery! :( Jul 13 06:40:31 it's like a sympathetic laugh, hehe idk Jul 13 06:40:50 ya it does look funny Jul 13 06:42:38 go obama ...... id get eaten alive in the other channel. just though I would put it out there Jul 13 06:44:08 is obama going to 'free my phone' ? Jul 13 06:44:27 drop test "Should pass 1m direct drop to concrete ground or 1.5m on slide with carpet". tessier, try it and let us know! Jul 13 06:44:36 is going to milk my cow, or do my dishes before my gf starts complaining about them? No! Jul 13 06:44:43 don't beleive the hype Jul 13 06:45:02 only the freerunner can do those things! Jul 13 06:45:11 HA HA HA Jul 13 06:45:16 :) Jul 13 06:45:36 ya obama is pretty impressive Jul 13 06:45:56 Better than the incumbent Jul 13 06:46:05 but so is Mr.Ed Jul 13 06:46:23 lol Jul 13 06:46:30 this is true Jul 13 06:46:43 is there any equvialent to rc.local on the openmoko? Jul 13 06:46:44 u know, there should be a chuckle out loud tla Jul 13 06:51:11 hmm....my freerunner isn't picking up any gps signals Jul 13 06:51:38 are you inside Jul 13 06:51:40 lol Jul 13 06:52:27 No, I went out in my back yard Jul 13 06:52:37 Running the AGPS test I see 42 failed fixes Jul 13 06:52:39 0 good fixes Jul 13 06:52:56 hmm, that sucks. I know nothing about the FR Jul 13 06:53:08 KrisAbsinthe: You just have the 1973? Jul 13 06:54:25 yeah, wont buy another OM device for a long time. I helped find about 200 bugs. Including the "Show stopper" No GSM 850.. they refused to repair my phone, even if i paid them Jul 13 06:54:43 oops Jul 13 06:54:51 What's wrong with your phone? Jul 13 06:55:12 I see lots of NMEA data in the log... Jul 13 06:55:37 I cant make calls in most of my state Jul 13 06:55:54 And that's a phone defect? Jul 13 06:56:22 an oversight by OM. Jul 13 06:56:49 tessier: it seems the GPS not working is a common issue... http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS_Problems and http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FreeRunner_GPS_antenna_repair_SOP Jul 13 06:59:20 I think my FR might also be affected by the GPS problems, I'm going to do a more thourogh investigation tomorrow to be sure it's not user error in my case Jul 13 07:00:34 is it too big to carry as an mp3 player? is there a way to wrap it on my arm as an ipod? Jul 13 07:00:59 (it will be nice to get rid of my nano) Jul 13 07:02:03 glad I can read some german, just installed this sweet image but its german. i like it Jul 13 07:02:04 owen1: it's a little smaller than the original iPod, not as small as a nano or as thin as the touch Jul 13 07:02:05 owen1: It's a lot bigger than a nano Jul 13 07:02:35 sitwon: Hmm...Any idea how to open it up so I can inspect the gps antenna? I'm not afraid of some poking or even soldering. Jul 13 07:02:39 tessier: i know. i wonder if it can replace my nano.. Jul 13 07:02:49 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973 Jul 13 07:03:33 its real easy Jul 13 07:03:38 owen1: I think you might want to wait a little bit... I don't think the battery would last too long if you used it as an mp3 player (just a guess though) Jul 13 07:04:45 tessier: If you need to make the special tool to get the screws out let me know and ill tell you how Jul 13 07:06:27 I only see one torx screw. Jul 13 07:06:47 in the top right when looking at the back of the phone right-side up Jul 13 07:07:08 oh, I *assumed* it was the same as the 1973 Jul 13 07:07:55 which was torx, but I didnt have one. Jul 13 07:08:09 This looks like torx also Jul 13 07:10:14 what the hell is the command to make a program display on a different screen Jul 13 07:10:23 WTF would they use Torx on an open phone? Jul 13 07:10:33 Torx is what you use when you want to stop people from dicking with things. Jul 13 07:10:34 hahah Jul 13 07:10:51 and a BIC pen is the liberator Jul 13 07:10:54 I use TORX 27 to take the darbey cover off my Harley Jul 13 07:11:06 BIC pen? Jul 13 07:11:45 if my openmoko is interchangable with my harley? thats hot Jul 13 07:11:51 None of my little screwdrivers are torx it seems. I do have a few torx somewhere but they are much bigger. Jul 13 07:12:02 melt it to make an impression, let it cool and its good for one screw Jul 13 07:12:39 KrisAbsinthe: That sounds JUST like an ex-gf of mine... Jul 13 07:13:05 LoL Jul 13 07:13:13 The question is - do I buy a FR now or later? Jul 13 07:13:15 nope... if you want to stop people from dicking with things you use these: http://www.foerch.de/files/customized/foerch/productcatalog/bf05c5ee-0e13-46ea-8129-e9ff9071a601/thumbnails/image_4.jpg Jul 13 07:13:44 or one of these... http://www.screwfastfix.com/sec_scr.html Jul 13 07:16:50 T6x40...what does the x40 mean? Jul 13 07:24:45 * tessier just ordered a Torx T6 Jul 13 07:24:53 I can wait a few days to fix the GPS. Jul 13 07:25:00 Now to figure out how to make it power back up again. It's a bit weird. Jul 13 07:25:47 thats not good Jul 13 07:30:19 hmm...the little red light under the aux button flashes occasionally but I can't get the rest of the phone to power up now. Jul 13 07:30:52 I think maybe the battery is just really low Jul 13 07:31:42 It makes a really faint static like sound when I push the button. I guess I've drained it already. Jul 13 07:31:45 * tessier leaves it for the night Jul 13 07:32:33 probably. I hate it for you Jul 13 08:08:02 good morning Jul 13 08:17:29 * tessier wonders why the time and date on his openmoko is wrong Jul 13 08:17:38 Isn't it supposed to get it from the GPS network? Jul 13 08:52:20 hm.. my neo with fso-image was suspended for 7h with 100% accu. now at least 95% are left. very nice. Jul 13 09:00:29 Has anyone seen any "official" response from Openmoko.com to the GPS problems many/most/all? buyers of the Freerunner are seeing with the GPS unit? Jul 13 09:03:11 Nothing official - It is a real issue but the amount of people affected is unknown. Jul 13 09:04:13 I think everyone within our 10-pack buyer's group has a unit that doesn't work at all. Jul 13 09:05:03 Since the warranty is so short, I wpnder if we should send them all back if we don't hear something soon. Jul 13 09:06:42 It's a shame, because the GPS performance of the neo1973 was actually pretty good once gllin became available. Jul 13 09:23:04 I think I have bits of ASU installed along the Openmoko stuff Jul 13 09:23:16 (I can briefly see boots during the booting process) Jul 13 09:23:21 Any idea what package to remove? Jul 13 09:23:47 I think the recent 2007.2 images show the boots during booting. Jul 13 09:24:06 I see. Jul 13 09:24:38 Next question: can I get the tools tu use a locale I installed? Jul 13 09:25:10 I have installed a recent image, I see the boots, but nothing seems to be broken (apart from GPS, which was broken before I put in the new image) after it boots. Jul 13 09:25:11 I installed locale-base-fr-fr, I'd like to have the Contacts app use it (at least for sorting names) Jul 13 09:25:27 actually i think only the ASU has the boots Jul 13 09:25:46 if it boots into a black home screen with a grid of icons, it's ASU Jul 13 09:25:54 "Assassin", "Campwifi", etc Jul 13 09:26:28 It doesn't here, I just see the boots briefly. Jul 13 09:26:49 so i've yet to touch the gps... is the problem that it doesn't work at all, or that it takes 15min to get a fix? Jul 13 09:27:24 Doesn't work at all for some people, myself included :-( Jul 13 09:28:03 i have had an unassisted fix within 200secs once Jul 13 09:28:28 hello, new problem, new luck Jul 13 09:28:33 ieatlint: openmoko-devel-image-om-gta02.jffs2, which I think is a 2007.2 rootfs, boots showing boots, but has the traditional 2007.2 UI (kinetic scroll of icons, etc). Jul 13 09:29:00 that is 2007.2 Jul 13 09:29:07 if it says qtopia-x11 or something, it's ASU Jul 13 09:29:14 It shows them boots. Jul 13 09:29:16 cannot connect to uboot via usb, no /dev/ttyACM0 on the desktop side Jul 13 09:29:27 it disappeared Jul 13 09:29:49 It says nothing about qtopia, and it looks nothing like the youtube videos I've seen of ASU. Jul 13 09:29:58 i'd go outside to try my gps, but i'm not wearing any pants Jul 13 09:30:23 /dev/ttyACM0 will disappear if uboot times-out. Jul 13 09:31:21 i look forward to the theorised/fantasised SHR Jul 13 09:31:52 ieatlint: I believe most of the reports on GPS performance so far have been from people wearing pants. You could increase the volume of perameter space searched. Jul 13 09:32:26 rtm: tried to reboot, reconnect, its not there anymore Jul 13 09:32:52 well, i'm also at my girlfriend's apartment and it's not in the safest area and it's 2:35am Jul 13 09:33:52 malik1972: Did you reboot the phone, or the computer you are going to download from? Jul 13 09:34:14 rtm: both, module ctm_acm is loaded Jul 13 09:35:01 cdc sorry Jul 13 09:35:51 malik1972: Sorry, I don't know what the problem is then. I've seen that device disappear, as recently as tonight, but only when uboot timed out. Restarting uboot fixed it. Setting the uboot timout interval to a huge number fixed it for good, I think. Jul 13 09:36:54 rtm: thats not the problem, the problem maybe on the desktop side Jul 13 09:37:22 What distribution are you running on the desktop? Jul 13 09:37:29 opensuse 10.3 Jul 13 09:37:40 i tried to mknod it Jul 13 09:37:52 but it didnt helped Jul 13 09:38:01 mysterious Jul 13 09:38:14 malik1972: You did see the device at some time in the past, right? Jul 13 09:38:20 sure Jul 13 09:38:44 i flashed a new uboot version and that also worked in the beginning Jul 13 09:40:53 new try Jul 13 09:43:40 Does all Freerunners have that GPS issue? Jul 13 09:43:50 no Jul 13 09:44:09 spydon: A very large number do. Jul 13 09:44:35 Okay :/ Jul 13 09:45:28 wouldn't be so sure of all the reports... somebody in the finnish group order had problems, but when I got my hands on his device and grepped ttySAC1 for a couple of minutes, it got a fix fine... Jul 13 09:45:57 currently I'm a bit skeptical of gpsd perhaps getting confused from the chip's output Jul 13 09:46:41 I'm trying to setup MokoMakefile on a newly installed Ubuntu 6.06. apt-get complains that sqlite3 is not an available package. Any ideas? Jul 13 09:46:51 hello Jul 13 09:47:52 mjr: Do you know if openmoko-agpsui connects to gpsd, or if it parses the GPS chip's output directly? Jul 13 09:48:10 dunno about that, but apparently he did try that too Jul 13 09:48:45 the gps tty is one-way isn't it? Jul 13 09:48:48 so, I'd grep ttySAC1 directly for fixes before being too sure there's a problem Jul 13 09:48:51 ieatlint_, no Jul 13 09:49:21 so the controls are what, off/on? or can you feed it a last location type deal to aid in getting a fix? Jul 13 09:49:46 mjr: I grep'd ttySAC1 directly, and did not see any valid data come through. Jul 13 09:50:04 you can feed it orbital data (and get a dump before turning it off so you can reinitialize it) Jul 13 09:50:06 ieatlint_: you can feed it with data Jul 13 09:50:15 that will help a lot with esp. the first fix time Jul 13 09:50:32 rtm, okay (I presume also waiting for a reasonable time in a reasonable spot for a fix) Jul 13 09:50:37 that's good then Jul 13 09:50:54 I got my FFT down from > 10 Minutes to 1-2 Minutes by feeding it almanac and ephemeridis data Jul 13 09:51:07 I don't doubt there are faulty units around, just saying that at least in this case it might've been some software glitch since I got a fix pretty quickly Jul 13 09:51:09 mjr: Yup, I stood for more than 1 hour in a baseball filed. Jul 13 09:51:16 (field) Jul 13 09:51:46 of course it might've been also a glitchy connection that happened to be better when I tried, but I'll be keeping an eye out for that Jul 13 09:52:28 well, i'm convinced to put pants on and go try it Jul 13 09:52:36 One thing seems indisputable - the neo1973's GPS chip was better. Jul 13 09:52:36 but i'm flashing a 2007.2 image at the moment Jul 13 09:53:06 well if it's a fix time, it could be an issue of feeding it init data Jul 13 09:53:17 opkg update Jul 13 09:53:28 I didn't have orbital data to feed it, so my result is just from the sats Jul 13 09:53:40 sorry wrong window Jul 13 09:53:47 exco, no kidding? :) Jul 13 09:53:56 whoever puts the packages on http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080712/ screwed up today Jul 13 09:54:12 i've two images labeled Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080712-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 Jul 13 09:54:29 one i downloaded one in the morning and one at night, and they're different md5sums Jul 13 10:02:58 i get also "No such Alternate Setting: "kernel"" while flashing a kernel Jul 13 10:03:25 seems to be a bug, simply try again Jul 13 10:03:32 I get this message sometimes, too Jul 13 10:04:03 it's the device isn't quite initialised yet and it doesn't detect it Jul 13 10:04:20 i mean, it detects the device, but not that the device isn't ready Jul 13 10:05:26 i cannot connect to uboot via usb and not use df-util Jul 13 10:05:49 where i have to work on desktop side? Jul 13 10:07:31 has someone similiar problems? Jul 13 10:08:33 dfu-util has been very reliable for me Jul 13 10:09:17 hmmm Jul 13 10:09:27 how are you getting into u-boot? Jul 13 10:09:36 via nand Jul 13 10:09:38 are you pressing aux and then power, or power and then aux? Jul 13 10:09:41 poer+aux Jul 13 10:09:49 1. power Jul 13 10:09:49 try aux+power Jul 13 10:09:53 the aux Jul 13 10:09:58 hasn't failed me yet Jul 13 10:12:04 okay, dfu-util works after rebooting Jul 13 10:12:20 yay Jul 13 10:12:59 i am reflashing things Jul 13 10:13:46 Ok, apt-get install sqlite* has helped a bit, now I get: make openmoko-devel-image Jul 13 10:13:48 ( cd build && . ../setup-env && \ Jul 13 10:13:49 ( bitbake openmoko-devel-image u-boot-openmoko ) ) Jul 13 10:13:51 ERROR: sqlite3 version 3.3.0 or later is required. Jul 13 10:13:52 make: *** [openmoko-devel-image] Error 1 Jul 13 10:14:34 you probably want libsqlite3-0 and libsqlite3-dev Jul 13 10:15:07 nevertheless i can not use /dev/ttySAC0 Jul 13 10:31:29 libsqlite3-0 is already the newest version. Jul 13 10:31:30 libsqlite3-dev is already the newest version. Jul 13 10:31:39 Thanks, but I had these already. Jul 13 10:32:31 and are they newer than version 3.3? (apt-cache show libsqlite3-0 will tell you) Jul 13 10:32:47 though if you're using a vaguely recent distribution they should be Jul 13 10:34:42 oh and I think you also require the python sqlite3 bindings (python-pysqlite2) though I'd have thought it'd be more explicit if that's what was missing Jul 13 10:35:20 Version 3.2.something... Jul 13 10:35:30 pysqlite2 I have as well... Jul 13 10:35:40 well, that would appear to be your problem then Jul 13 10:35:42 I just installed them this morning! Jul 13 10:35:51 what distribution are you using? Jul 13 10:35:59 6.06 TLS... Jul 13 10:36:04 yeah, that's quite old Jul 13 10:36:14 Old, I know, but one I also know will work with QEmu... Jul 13 10:36:22 And I mean to _install_ in QEmu. Jul 13 10:36:43 well, you could compile a newer version of sqlite yourself I guess Jul 13 10:36:43 So, redo from scratch and install 7.something? Jul 13 10:36:52 Perhaps, how? Jul 13 10:37:22 download the sqlite source and go through the normal procedure (./configure && make && sudo make install) Jul 13 10:37:33 or sudo checkinstall to have it automatically make a debian package for you Jul 13 10:38:05 or you could try getting a more recent package from a newer distribution, but I expect it'll depend on a lot of other newer packages too Jul 13 10:38:23 the easiest option would probably be to just upgrade to Hardy (assuming the upgrade works correctly) Jul 13 10:39:31 or another option would be to just install hardy in a chroot Jul 13 10:39:46 although that'd take up quite a lot of space Jul 13 10:50:01 <`pwgen`> mickeyl|lunch: ping Jul 13 10:54:05 hmm... either the python-edje tutorial is broken or theres something wrong with the neo... Jul 13 10:54:07 does openmoko-agpsui use gpsd? Jul 13 10:54:28 I think it accesses /dev/ttySAC1 directly, but not sure Jul 13 10:54:50 i thought so too, but it occured to me that if it didn't, it may explain its failure to fix Jul 13 10:55:11 but gpsd starts when the fix is there, not before... Jul 13 10:55:23 helloes mokos Jul 13 10:55:39 maybe its using this strange "gllin" I'm reading about everywhere Jul 13 10:55:51 gllin from what i read is for the gta01 Jul 13 10:55:58 ah... Jul 13 10:56:10 mickey|lunch: just so you know, I tried to do frameworkd -s ogsmd on 2007.2 with a dead phonekit, and it fails to register (timeout, as if I didn't have GSM) Jul 13 10:56:16 uh, can anyone else get to fica.com Jul 13 10:56:18 "Gllin is an userspace driver for a hammerhead GPS chip. It was distributed on phase1 openmokos. " http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gllin Jul 13 10:56:59 hmm... so where does it get its data from... I thought it would cat the device file because you can see the raw output in the other tab Jul 13 10:57:29 when i cat the device i get the same data over and over again -- no variation Jul 13 10:57:47 because you have no fix yet Jul 13 10:58:12 that changes once you got a fix, which I experienced once Jul 13 10:58:13 hmmm, i still think it should be giving something Jul 13 10:59:25 grml, I need some decent edje tutorial... the one on the enlightenment wiki produces errors on the noe Jul 13 10:59:29 s/noe/neo/ Jul 13 10:59:31 Tanuva meant: grml, I need some decent edje tutorial... the one on the enlightenment wiki produces errors on the neo Jul 13 10:59:44 <`pwgen`> gllin is a userspace driver uesed on gta01 hardware . it can provide nmeap output Jul 13 11:11:03 when openmoko-agpsui gives me messages like "stopped gllin successfully" ... i do truly wonder if it's just a software issue Jul 13 11:13:28 Robot101: ping Jul 13 11:14:43 hm hm Jul 13 11:14:55 anyone knows where can I find X log under FR? Jul 13 11:15:02 try /tmp/x.log Jul 13 11:15:59 mickeyl, thx Jul 13 11:18:36 mickeyl: am I supposed to kill gsmd in order to launch frameworkd ? Jul 13 11:18:51 I don't know if it manages it by itself Jul 13 11:19:00 Ainulindale: yes. the both compete for /dev/ttySAC0 Jul 13 11:19:27 Ok, so in order to have a working frameworkd, I have to kill gsmd, kill phone-kit, then launch frameworkd Jul 13 11:19:30 Any special parameter ? Jul 13 11:20:55 for a start, i'd limit it to only the ogsmd subsystem Jul 13 11:20:59 by calling it with -s ogsmd Jul 13 11:21:11 then, it will launch gsm0710muxd (which you hopefully have installed) Jul 13 11:21:13 and launch itself Jul 13 11:21:25 Oh, gsm0701muxd you say Jul 13 11:21:27 :-) Jul 13 11:21:36 (weird the debug log didn't say anything about that) Jul 13 11:22:19 Which package is it in ? Jul 13 11:22:26 gsm0710muxd.ipk Jul 13 11:22:31 (similar) Jul 13 11:22:48 it's a dependency of frameworkd, so it should be installed automatically, if you installed from a feed Jul 13 11:22:54 Ah if I didn't type in 0701 instead of 0710 Jul 13 11:34:57 hmm... there is no cron in FR?? Jul 13 11:36:58 hi Jul 13 11:37:44 pidgin is wasting a little much space to be useful Jul 13 11:39:18 Hmm... surely this is something where telepathy would be the solution :) Jul 13 11:39:19 lol Jul 13 11:39:49 mickeyl: Hmmm I have a bunch of name errors Jul 13 11:40:21 claiming name "foo" not allowed due to system configuratio? Jul 13 11:40:29 mickeyl: and it can't find /dev/input/event5 it seems Jul 13 11:40:37 that should be ok Jul 13 11:41:00 it tries to open all input event nodes and stops once it can't find the first one Jul 13 11:41:13 mickeyl: nope, NameError: global name 'Info' is not defined Jul 13 11:41:48 And the weird thing Jul 13 11:42:07 NoSectionError: No section: 'ophoned' Jul 13 11:42:24 hmm, ok slowly Jul 13 11:42:30 do you installed an uptodate package? Jul 13 11:42:33 Yep Jul 13 11:42:35 ok Jul 13 11:42:39 next thing Jul 13 11:42:42 inspect /etc/frameworkd.conf Jul 13 11:42:48 Built it .. hmmm.. the day before yesterday I think Jul 13 11:43:46 hmm, strange. ophoned is not supposed to read something from the config Jul 13 11:43:50 (nothing special in it it seems) Jul 13 11:44:07 (and no references to ophoned) Jul 13 11:44:26 work apt-get install ? Jul 13 11:44:29 it's best, if we get the full output Jul 13 11:44:32 export FRAMEWORK_DEBUG=1 Jul 13 11:44:35 ./frameworkd Jul 13 11:44:41 then pastebin the log of that Jul 13 11:45:10 I was just doing that Jul 13 11:45:20 in fact it tries to get the modem type it seems Jul 13 11:45:25 hmm Jul 13 11:45:31 that sounds like you have a very old frameworkd Jul 13 11:45:35 before the renaming of ophoned to ogsmd Jul 13 11:45:39 make sure you really have the laste Jul 13 11:45:40 t Jul 13 11:47:08 http://pastebin.com/m63056317 Jul 13 11:47:40 mickeyl: my OE.mtn file timestamp is from the 12th Jul 13 11:47:54 ah Jul 13 11:48:04 you are building with the default stamps Jul 13 11:48:14 Default stamps ? Jul 13 11:48:14 i said multiple times: Jul 13 11:48:24 require conf/distro/include/fso-autorev.inc Jul 13 11:48:30 require conf/distro/include/moko-autorev.inc Jul 13 11:48:33 if you want to build FSO Jul 13 11:48:44 Oh, didn't see that anywhere. Jul 13 11:48:56 Where am I supposed to put these require ? Jul 13 11:49:02 FSO had so many changes i did not have the time to update conf/distro/sane-srcrevs.inc twenty times per day :D Jul 13 11:49:07 conf/local.conf Jul 13 11:49:14 ok will do that then Jul 13 11:49:33 take care that you really have the latest stuff then. git revisions are not ordered :/ Jul 13 11:49:48 lexical comparison can and will lead to false results Jul 13 11:50:23 For all of you interested in using GPRS and improving GPS performance by using AGPS, take a look at a HowTo I wrote this morning: Jul 13 11:50:26 http://freeyourphone.de/portal_v1/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=295 Jul 13 11:50:57 Once I am sure it is ok and works for at least some of you, I will put it into the Wiki Jul 13 11:51:34 DocCod: I never once got a fix personally :-/ Jul 13 11:52:18 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: ahh end of lunch ... Jul 13 11:52:52 after lunch is before lunch ... :D Jul 13 11:53:30 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: beware you will grow and grow and get "bigger" and "bigger" *FG* Jul 13 11:54:10 indeed Jul 13 11:54:28 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: got still problems keeping my moko in sleep mode ... every signal strengh change will wake it up (:-(( Jul 13 11:55:08 still Jul 13 11:55:13 hmm, let me check something Jul 13 11:55:31 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: maybe firmeware problem ? Jul 13 11:56:24 <`pwgen`> i tried it manually useing mickeyterm and apm -s .. still after 4 or 50 sec it is awakening Jul 13 11:58:40 pastebin me your ti_calypso/channel.py Jul 13 11:58:56 <`pwgen`> mompl Jul 13 11:59:46 aaah Jul 13 11:59:47 heh Jul 13 11:59:50 nevermind Jul 13 11:59:52 typo alarm Jul 13 12:02:10 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: http://pastebin.com/m361d3675 Jul 13 12:03:07 <`pwgen`> i added a second +CNMI=2,1,0,0,0 but that doesnt help Jul 13 12:04:16 http://rafb.net/p/gaJgVw33.html Jul 13 12:04:18 that will fix it Jul 13 12:04:34 forgot some '+'es, so the commands were ignored Jul 13 12:04:55 <`pwgen`> ah his see Jul 13 12:05:11 <`pwgen`> damm i was blind ... Jul 13 12:05:14 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rfc73862ab64e 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/ti_calypso/channel.py: ogsmd: [TI CALYPSO]: fix suspend/resume commands for channel Jul 13 12:06:35 Does OM already have some way to synchronise contacts and/or calendars with external sources? Jul 13 12:08:33 I did the import from SIM stuff, and I even wrote some Python based on that to edit the data afterwards, but ideally I'd like to sync with my main PC. Jul 13 12:09:59 i would love to see openmoko using akonadi for storage of PIM stuff... Jul 13 12:10:26 It'd remove the whole discussion about having to store it in a qtopia specific format, evolution specific, (insert personal favourite here) format... :) Jul 13 12:10:52 ...akonadi specific... Jul 13 12:11:46 Lo-lan-do: Akonadi being a method for storage and access, which isn't tied to a specific program, it just seems, well... the way to go :) Jul 13 12:11:57 isn't akonadi much too huge? Jul 13 12:12:09 (and don't go "Oh, but it's made by KDE peoples, so it aer ebuls!" ;) ) Jul 13 12:12:17 One could argue that eds-dbus is also a method for storage and access. Jul 13 12:12:21 mickeyl: Let me just check the size of it... Jul 13 12:14:33 Hmm... i was under the impression it was library agnostic... Jul 13 12:14:51 it seems it's based on Qt - though i may very well be wrong, and looking at the wrong stuff ;) Jul 13 12:15:50 A graphical toolkit used in a storage abstraction? Jul 13 12:16:31 No, Qt isn't a graphical toolkit, you're confusing it with GTK :) Jul 13 12:16:54 Qt has a whole slew of data manipulation features as well, which can be found in QtCore :) Jul 13 12:17:02 Ah yes, right. Qt is a whole operating system, along with a programming language. Jul 13 12:17:35 It's a programming environment - a friend of mine described it as .NET without the braindamage ;) Jul 13 12:17:45 I had a look at it once and ran away screaming. Not only is it based on C++, but it's not even real C++. Jul 13 12:18:00 (he's a professional .NET developer, which is much fun ;) ) Jul 13 12:18:15 title to long I guess Jul 13 12:18:26 pjj: Seems that way :) Jul 13 12:18:44 http://digg.com/linux_unix/5_real_reasons_to_avoid_iPhone_3G Jul 13 12:18:49 a good article to read :) Jul 13 12:18:53 Lo-lan-do: What's your language of choice, then? :) Jul 13 12:19:14 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: still same problem ... Jul 13 12:19:16 leinir: Why, the best one, of course. Jul 13 12:19:34 Right, LOLCode, should've known ;) Jul 13 12:19:47 it talks about the iPhone why it's bad to buy one, and that's it's more ethical and to protect your freedom if you buy a freerunner Jul 13 12:19:54 I.e, shell, Perl, Python, C#, C, C++ even, sometimes even Lisp. Depending on the task at hand. Jul 13 12:19:59 `pwgen`: hmm, out of ideas then Jul 13 12:20:13 Lo-lan-do: That is a decidedly more useful language, thanks :) Jul 13 12:20:38 (also, just because Qt is based on C++ doesn't mean you can't write apps in, say, Python :) ) Jul 13 12:20:46 * Lo-lan-do adds a sixth reason to buy a Freerunner: "It can't track your position and tell Big Brother about it, since the GPS doesn't work" Jul 13 12:20:55 <`pwgen`> when i use mickeyterm and send this string, and doing manually apm -s ,it should stay sleeping. i am rught ? Jul 13 12:21:13 <`pwgen`> s/rught/right/ Jul 13 12:21:13 `pwgen` meant: when i use mickeyterm and send this string, and doing manually apm -s ,it should stay sleeping. i am right ? Jul 13 12:21:19 `pwgen`: argh Jul 13 12:21:20 no Jul 13 12:21:28 sorry, the +'es are completely bogus Jul 13 12:21:38 i'm not yet awake enough it seems Jul 13 12:21:43 <`pwgen`> LOL Jul 13 12:21:47 perhaps we should not mix % and + lines Jul 13 12:22:17 <`pwgen`> back from lunch all blood in your stomach Jul 13 12:23:03 Who is interested in MokoSec? http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/021476.html Jul 13 12:24:00 Weird, bitbake freezes over illume Jul 13 12:24:58 Oh well found why, svn certificate it seems. Jul 13 12:27:37 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rd9c1243b6642 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/ti_calypso/channel.py: ogsmd: [TI CALYPSO]: revert last change with was completely bogus Jul 13 12:27:51 Wieviele schwerwiegende Fehler (GPS-IS-Antenne, Grafik-IS Problem) sind in der aktuellen Schaltungsgestaltung vorhanden? (GTA02) [ How many circuit problems are actually builtin GT02?) Jul 13 12:28:54 Anyone here using the pure qtopia image? Jul 13 12:31:16 emacsen: Yup :) Jul 13 12:32:41 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: replaces % with + . same result, after 16 sec 'org.freesmartphone.GSM.Network.SignalStrength: 61' awakening Jul 13 12:33:24 interesting. this means for some reason it won't suspend the channel for you Jul 13 12:33:29 i don't have error checking in the suspend yet Jul 13 12:33:34 try the following Jul 13 12:33:43 split the combined self.enqueue Jul 13 12:33:47 into individual self.enqueue Jul 13 12:33:49 for every command Jul 13 12:33:53 and see whether that fixes it Jul 13 12:33:59 so, instead of : Jul 13 12:34:06 +FOO;+BAR;+YO Jul 13 12:34:08 you doo Jul 13 12:34:10 leinir, okay, so since we last spoke, made a phone call? Jul 13 12:34:12 self.enqueu("+FOO" Jul 13 12:34:15 self.enqueu("+BAR" Jul 13 12:34:16 self.enqueu("+YO" Jul 13 12:34:23 <`pwgen`> copy Jul 13 12:34:28 Aah right, no i've not - lemme do it now :) Jul 13 12:34:58 <`pwgen`> with +CGREG=0 and not %CGREG=0 Jul 13 12:34:59 DocCod, hey thanks for that gprs/agps writeup :) Jul 13 12:35:14 mjr: you're welcome Jul 13 12:35:19 Marcus Bauer schreibt in der E-Post Liste, dass einige Fehler bekannt waren, aber nicht angegangen wurden. Stimmt das? [Marcus Bauer claims about problems in OpenMoko Development that were known, but not solved, because of disinterest. Is that true?] Jul 13 12:35:30 mjr: took me 3 days to get it working for myself, so I thought I'd share :) Jul 13 12:35:34 mickeyl: Is there any way to be sure that I have the latest frameworkd version ? Jul 13 12:36:13 Ainulindale: check the gitrev with git.freesmartphone.org Jul 13 12:36:13 emacsen: Nope, no sound either way Jul 13 12:37:10 leinir, okay, at least it's consistent across people Jul 13 12:37:40 i'm trying to send a text... Jul 13 12:38:33 doesn't look like it's going through either Jul 13 12:38:52 rm: I'd be interested in MokoSec Jul 13 12:39:25 rm: (But I'd call it MokoSecurity for marketing purposes) Jul 13 12:40:13 leinir, okay, well, pretty useless as a phone I'd say, at least in current state Jul 13 12:40:20 rm: specifically, I'd like to run openmoko filesystems over DM-crypt, using an intuitive graphical-stroke password input method to provide the master-password Jul 13 12:40:50 emacsen: Indeed - i hope lpotter might have some input on this "slight" problem ;) Jul 13 12:41:07 Is there any game or toy in the repositories to toy with the accelerometers? Jul 13 12:41:24 rm: I'm also interested in encryption over GSM, but this would require data calls (or a reverse-GSM-audio codec), as openmoko does not have access to the digital data stream of voice calls Jul 13 12:42:07 kW: All right, but I'm only another interested person. Let your wishes _please_ be known at: https://moksec.networld.to/trac/ oropenmoko-devel@lists.openmoko.org . My answer to your questions follow now. Jul 13 12:42:08 kW, there have been attempts at this in the past Jul 13 12:42:38 kW, it's my understanding they generally don't go well Jul 13 12:42:40 kW: oberhauseralex at networld.to Jul 13 12:43:26 rm+emacsen: note that people who are successful to do voice call encryption may die due to "suicide": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tron_(hacker) Jul 13 12:43:39 kW: Isn't it possible to connect an Fingerprint Reader? Or does this corrupt all security reason'? Jul 13 12:43:52 kW "Worse case of suicide I've ever seen" Jul 13 12:43:53 ;) Jul 13 12:44:23 kW: Oh yes, that's typical case of "modern freedom" in "Money-World". Jul 13 12:44:25 rm: I'd like to boot my openmoko phone as is Jul 13 12:44:45 rm: so if my freerunner doesn't come with a fingerprint reader by default, I won't require it Jul 13 12:44:50 leinir, I'm wondering about the pre-alpha August release Jul 13 12:45:09 leinir, I found the original software to work... well, sort of sometimes Jul 13 12:45:12 emacsen: That one does sort of work - i know i sent and received texts using it at any rate :) Jul 13 12:45:28 leinir, I couldn't figure out how to send :) Jul 13 12:45:40 leinir, the icons confused me Jul 13 12:45:45 rm: entering the password should be done using multiple strokes, maybe on a 5*5 raster, resembling a process of painting (but with a certain order) Jul 13 12:45:47 the whole interface did generally Jul 13 12:45:56 kW, you mean the key Jul 13 12:46:09 emacsen: the password to the key Jul 13 12:46:20 emacsen: as the key has fixed length, while the password may have variable length Jul 13 12:46:21 kW: I think a most generic approach to encrypted voice-calls (VOIP?) would fit. Is it possible to calle encrypted over IP with e.g. Portable Computers yet? Jul 13 12:46:32 emacsen: Yeah, that's why raster wants to kill ASU when he's done ;) Jul 13 12:46:51 rm: the problem is that this rules out encryption over traditional voice calls Jul 13 12:47:14 rm: but this may be acceptable in the first place Jul 13 12:47:20 kW, you can't do that anyway Jul 13 12:47:30 leinir, Ah, Raster... mixed feelings there Jul 13 12:47:53 He'll be reworking it to sit on top of FSO, without the braindamaged "usability" decisions imposed by the project managers :) Jul 13 12:47:56 mjr: I mean, it also rules out encryption over traditional GSM CSD calls (connections with a constant bitrate) Jul 13 12:48:01 but yeah a UI improvement would be... important Jul 13 12:48:14 kW: Yes, if no reader is plugged in, you can touch a Number combination perhaps in combination with "voice recognation" of a "secret" (not very loud) spoken word, or sentence ("Sesam, öffne Dich!"). Jul 13 12:48:23 leinir, I'm a geek, and I found the default UI... confusing Jul 13 12:48:33 emacsen: You're not alone Jul 13 12:48:38 kW, 'kay, yeah, CSD calls you probably want to do without IP... Jul 13 12:48:52 emacsen: raster's basically just doing as he's told, he's said directly that he will never be using ASU himself ;) Jul 13 12:48:52 leinir, anyway thanks for confirming the phone situation Jul 13 12:49:10 leinir, well what came on the phone isn't ASU Jul 13 12:49:26 I've yet to see ASU, actually Jul 13 12:49:46 rm: but even if a reader is plugged in Jul 13 12:50:03 leinir, Now I'll have to see if wireless works with asu Jul 13 12:50:13 rm: you know, there are countries where people get their fingers chopped of just to activate something which is dependent on fingerprint-readers... Jul 13 12:50:23 ASU is quite funky, really :) Jul 13 12:51:04 leinir, funky as in "Play the funky music" or funky as in "God, have you throw out the trash in the last month? Your apartment smells funky?" Jul 13 12:51:33 funky as in odd, but with large amounts of nifty :) Jul 13 12:51:59 leinir, so you went from ASU to qtopia? Jul 13 12:52:05 Yes :) Jul 13 12:52:17 that good eh? Jul 13 12:53:03 Qtopia? Yeah, i like it a lot - bar the whole phone functionality messup ;) Jul 13 12:54:02 rm: VoIP (especiall RTP) needs too much bandwidth and is only feasable over Wlan. Jul 13 12:54:08 kW: Sure, a "cell-Reader" who captures "DNS-Information" would be better. Why not plugging in a "Passwort_Input_Will_Tester" with help of "Electro Myographical Analysis". In next Sentence I get back to point. Jul 13 12:54:58 leinir, yes and no... I have a few questions/issues. I need to figure out if/how to get opensync for pim and calendar. I need to get wireless working. I need to get, A PHONE (text messaging isn't so important because I'm in the US) and I'd like to learn how to make a pyqt qtopia-compatible application Jul 13 12:55:00 kW: ah, you are right... a new input method would be moving the freerunner in a specific sequence... Jul 13 12:55:01 rm, kW: Smartcard with pin-entry would provide strong crypto: http://www.certgate.com/web_de/produkte/ Jul 13 12:55:04 kW: I think most important will be a "simple and quick" SMS-Crypter and SMS-Decrypter as implented in Programs. Jul 13 12:56:13 rm: yes, SMS-encryption is a good thing to start... we should implement compression, too, and settle on a standard though, because else we would fractionate the SMS encryption landscape Jul 13 12:56:29 rm: SMS-encryption should be based in public keys known for the particular recipient Jul 13 12:56:34 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: (:-(( doesnt help , Jul 13 12:56:46 rm: SMS-encryption should be based on a public key known for the particular recipient Jul 13 12:57:25 Kensan: does this help? does the freerunner have a smartcard-reader (apart from the SIM-card reader)? Jul 13 12:58:04 Kensan: also consider the threat model: if someone can steal your phone, then someone may steal your smartcard (which you carry with you), too Jul 13 12:58:07 kW: good Idea with Moving (using the acceloromators). Jul 13 12:58:13 kW: the URL i posted is a Smartcard in microSD format. So you could put it in the microSD slot of the freerunner. Jul 13 12:58:45 `pwgen`: ok, then the only fix for now is to disable %CSQ= in the first place Jul 13 12:58:51 Kensan: but if someone steals your phone, then the thief also steals your smartcard which is plugged into the phone... Jul 13 12:59:00 i will do some tests towards the 2nd half of the week when we're in release mode again Jul 13 12:59:14 kW: ? If he has my smartcard and does not know the pin I am fairly certain he can not access any data I have properly protected with the SC. Jul 13 12:59:36 Kensan: I never heard about this "Smartcard". Perhaps you could explain an example (in GTA02) ? Jul 13 12:59:53 Kensan: I see, you take the smartcard as a storage for a longer key if we just want to employ a short PIN Jul 13 13:00:12 rm: take your credit card of your banking account. It's basicaly the same level of security. Jul 13 13:00:28 Kensan: I have to check whether smartcards are that uncrackable that they never reveal an encryption key Jul 13 13:00:47 kW: the smartcard does the crypto operations, the keys do not leave the smartcard. It is only unlocked if you enter the pin. Jul 13 13:00:59 emacsen: i keep forgetting how unimportant texting is in the US... while here it's alpha and omega :) Jul 13 13:01:27 kW: I know a bit about smartcards and most of them are secure. Jul 13 13:01:28 Kensan: doesn't work for dm-crypt of all the openmoko block devices though, in this case, the key has to be in RAM Jul 13 13:01:43 kW: otherwise banks would not use them in that way. Jul 13 13:02:05 Kensan: even if you have a scanning tunneling microscope? Jul 13 13:02:19 Kensan: banks use many silly insecure technology... like DES Jul 13 13:02:48 kW: you can store small amount of data in the protected data "space" of the smartcard. This means you could put your symmetric key on the SC as "data blob" which can only be gotten form the smartcard if you enter the pin. Jul 13 13:02:48 kW: I need some time to answer to your sentences. I have heard that A. Merkel communicates through SMS. Tough it should be in interest of "official correspondence" not to be "with-readen by other "Security-Services"). Aren't there already (prooven) Programs, that could crypt, compress and decrypt Digits (160) in a "prooven" secure way? Jul 13 13:02:53 Kensan: and re-using PINs all the time for POS-transactions (while surveillance cameras watch the customers type in the PINs) is insecure, too... Jul 13 13:03:25 kW: it depends on what assurance level your SC provides. Jul 13 13:03:30 rm: I'm not sure whether there is already SMS encryption... but if there is, we should stay compatible Jul 13 13:03:39 Kensan: hehe Jul 13 13:03:50 sms encryption is useless Jul 13 13:03:57 zash: because? Jul 13 13:03:58 kW: reusing insecure pins is not a shortcoming of smartcards. it's a user issue. Jul 13 13:04:03 zash: Why? Jul 13 13:04:16 rm, do you have a friend whose nick is -rf? Jul 13 13:04:30 Kensan: it's a bank's issue... common bank cards force you to re-use PINs Jul 13 13:04:35 leinir, yeah, well it's really expensive here Jul 13 13:04:46 a SMS is max 140 bytes, and costs a lot Jul 13 13:05:02 Yeah, i remember - you even pay to bloody well *receive* the things, it's in-bleeding-sane Jul 13 13:05:02 kW: ? What kind of banks are you dealing with? ;) Jul 13 13:05:05 zash: this doesn't mean that people are not using SMS like mad Jul 13 13:05:06 its far better to just dump the data over gprs, and cheaper Jul 13 13:05:19 Kensan: banks which belong to the VISAplus network Jul 13 13:05:25 (that is, in essence, all banks) Jul 13 13:05:32 Where can I find the sources for openmoko-contacts2? Jul 13 13:05:52 Hey, i have a question about the contacts app Jul 13 13:05:59 zash: that's worth considering Jul 13 13:06:11 does it store contacts in a txt file or a db? Jul 13 13:06:21 tunys: eds db, apparently Jul 13 13:06:28 oic Jul 13 13:06:42 kW: personaly, i would like XMPP over GPRS + SSL Jul 13 13:06:57 rm: maybe we should provide "fakeSMS" as such: if we know that the recipient can receive encrypted SMS messages, then we conclude that the recipient is reachable by GRPS too, and deliver encrypted SMS messages by GRPS, while we deliver unencrypted SMS messages by SMS Jul 13 13:07:11 zash: then you use ordinary Jabber ;-) Jul 13 13:07:18 kW: yes Jul 13 13:08:05 kW: The public and private key standard (I know from GnuPG) is surely one interesting security option. I personally prefer changing keys _and_ changing Encryption Methods. That at first someone tells the Receiver the Method and then he could send the SMS. For Example: "Starting IP-connected computer over GSM-SMS with Encryption Method first synchronised by Sender(Mobil) and Receiver(Station) Jul 13 13:08:21 zash: mhh... but it needs to look like SMS... and: your operator actually needs to support you being silent for a long time without charging you excessive amounts of money Jul 13 13:08:44 rm: you're missing the key-sharing step, which is complex. Jul 13 13:09:18 rm: yes, sure... before encrypting, the encryption method and the receiver's public key needs to be established for the sender Jul 13 13:09:19 kW: yeah, the wakeup from gsm would be nice Jul 13 13:10:39 zash: maybe we can use USSD for that Jul 13 13:10:41 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: it seems working ( better , its awakening now when the modem lost the network ) Jul 13 13:10:51 kW: and what is that? Jul 13 13:10:58 kW: USSD is horribly expensive in some cases Jul 13 13:11:13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USSD Jul 13 13:11:35 SpeedEvil: could be, that's why "maybe" ;-) Jul 13 13:11:36 Oh Jul 13 13:11:46 USSD is network driven only Jul 13 13:11:51 You can't send over it. Jul 13 13:11:56 I thought you meant CSD Jul 13 13:12:30 what about a gsm or landline on a jabber server that can call 1 signal to a phone and then hangs up Jul 13 13:12:39 Does anybody know what I'm suppose to delete to force bitbake to actually refetch the sources of a git repo ? Jul 13 13:12:46 at least here, that wont cost anything Jul 13 13:12:48 zash: good idea Jul 13 13:13:07 zash: we design a "go online" notification service Jul 13 13:13:11 CSD is expensive annoyingly. Jul 13 13:13:20 Dataq phone-phone service Jul 13 13:13:25 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: correction not sleeping longer than 4 - 60 secs Jul 13 13:13:27 which has some well known MSISDNs (phone numbers) Jul 13 13:13:44 in case a call comes from these phone numbers, the phone does not answer Jul 13 13:13:54 but rejects Jul 13 13:14:00 `pwgen`: yeah, seems something broke since milestone1 Jul 13 13:14:02 and then checks IM and/or mail Jul 13 13:14:09 zash: yes Jul 13 13:14:30 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r4cda24e6b765 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-asu-feed.bb: [openmoko-asu-feed] Add task-openmoko-asu-feed.bb Jul 13 13:15:06 zash: I could run such a service, I have some ISDN cards on my servers Jul 13 13:15:39 zash: however, there is a risk for the operator of such a service that actually a connection gets established Jul 13 13:15:39 tunys: No it are the First Digits of my Pre- and Pastname. Jul 13 13:16:17 Ah Jul 13 13:16:30 hi here Jul 13 13:17:27 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: found a typo ,, still testing Jul 13 13:21:08 zash: by the way: there needs to be a fallback service in case the receiver of an SMS message has put the SIM card into a non-openmoko phone Jul 13 13:21:23 kW: I think Encryption is important for all "sended Text". Aren't they Java Virtual Machines on other phones, so that interested people can ("perhaps", "I don't know how") use a Java-Emulated Programm for Encrypting, Compressioning and En-Compressioning and Decrypting their SMS? How little can 160 Digits be "encrypted"? Jul 13 13:22:00 rm: I think that using Java or not is not important for how to implement encryption Jul 13 13:22:56 rm: and the 160 digits limit is somewhat challenging because we have very little space to send a nonce or a symmetric key... so maybe we use full asymmetric encryption without symmetric keys Jul 13 13:23:31 rm: SMS payload is actually just 140 bytes Jul 13 13:24:02 rm: try generating 160 chars of lorem ipsum, encrypt it with something and compress it Jul 13 13:24:03 mickeyl: just checking, but I'm not supposed to have ophoned and ogsmd at the same time right ? Jul 13 13:24:28 i did some test a while ago and got 5 times the original size Jul 13 13:24:29 SpeedEvil: Does Key-Sharing not only mean, that both Communicators have the keys copied in their "RAM" ? Jul 13 13:24:34 (gnupg) Jul 13 13:24:52 kW: why not use sms as a "data channel" and model a protocol on top of that, that takes care of encryption/compression, fragmentation etc.? Jul 13 13:25:01 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: my channel.conf http://pastebin.com/m2568d1c5 Jul 13 13:26:05 kW: like setting the MTU to 140 bytes or so ;) Jul 13 13:26:20 Kensan: ehm, over $800 per MB? Jul 13 13:26:22 Kensan: in some regions of the world, people pay about 1250€/MB when using SMS Jul 13 13:26:56 Kensan: and gprs is like $ 2.5 Jul 13 13:27:06 kW: of course you would only use it for low bandwidth stuff, but that's basically what you are talking about. Jul 13 13:27:37 kW, zash: you are both talking about adding services to sms and using sms as the basic communication protocol. Jul 13 13:27:39 Kensan: however, one could model each pair of sender-receiver as _one_ long term (never breaking) connection, where each packet is of 140 bytes Jul 13 13:27:47 <`pwgen`> Kensan: whats about the idea useing hamradio to encode the init data Jul 13 13:28:21 Kensan: didnt you say that? Jul 13 13:28:31 Kensan: that is, one SMS per communication endpoint to setup the connection and then just use sequence numbers (and hope that there is zero packet loss) Jul 13 13:28:37 kW: I meant manually synchronised "Encryption Methods". That there is a little bit flexibility in the "Encryption Method". "Ones "GnuPG", then "Own-Programmed-Encryption", and so on. Perhaps couppled with "Moon-Stand, or ... "Weather Forecast" for my Region. Jul 13 13:29:09 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: 5 min still sleeping !!! Jul 13 13:29:17 zash: yes, I did say that. But I merely put your and kW's discussion in the context of layered (network) protocols. Jul 13 13:29:21 rm: I don't think that GnuPG is optimized for size|minimum amount of packets Jul 13 13:29:23 Ainulindale: ophoned is something on top of gsmd. it doesn't do harm atm. Jul 13 13:29:27 ogsmd, that is Jul 13 13:29:42 Ok, I have it, so I guess it's right. Jul 13 13:30:07 My wrapper doesn't work but that's another problem Jul 13 13:30:08 `pwgen`: i see. seems that we need to issue the commands one-by-one then. Jul 13 13:30:09 kW: how reliable is SMS? The operator will cache SMS if they cannot be delivered, right? Jul 13 13:30:09 strange Jul 13 13:30:18 Kensan: yes, and no Jul 13 13:30:35 Kensan: yes, operators cache SMS messages, no, they do not guarantee delivery Jul 13 13:30:42 kW: yeah there's some timeout but for all practical purposes that should work no? Jul 13 13:30:50 Kensan: and no, they do not send you non-delivery notifications Jul 13 13:31:06 Kensan: no, I know some operators who do reorder messages Jul 13 13:31:22 Kensan: that is, if a message is not delivered promptly, it will delivered after exactly 24 hours Jul 13 13:31:30 kW: ic. So some sort of sequence numbering etc would be needed. Jul 13 13:31:40 are we talking about encryption over sms? Jul 13 13:31:42 Kensan: all messages inbetween have a "future" sequence number Jul 13 13:32:03 Kensan: however, there are stream ciphers which do not need ordering of packets AFAIK Jul 13 13:32:26 kW: you could use a timeout. Something like if SMS1 has More-fragments set then another one should arrive within T minutes. Jul 13 13:33:06 kW: well it depends what kind of cipher you want to use. Jul 13 13:33:42 kW: AES in Countermode might be an option. Jul 13 13:33:50 Kensan: yes... but: each reply from receiver to sender costs more money, too Jul 13 13:34:52 kW: yes, thats true. But loss or non-delivery of SMS is tricky I guess. Jul 13 13:34:54 Kensan: I think if stream ciphers like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salsa20 are used, then reordering becomes a non-issue Jul 13 13:35:02 and (loss, too) Jul 13 13:35:40 Kensan: "This gives Salsa20 the unusual advantage that the user can efficiently seek to any position in the output stream." Jul 13 13:35:43 but, gprs and ssl? Jul 13 13:35:44 kW: yes, it's not that much of a problem, but what does it mean for the "application" side? If one packet is missing, what do I do with the data I have? Jul 13 13:35:53 kW: Aes CTR has the same property Jul 13 13:35:58 Kensan: however, we need to evaluate the strength of Salsa20 first Jul 13 13:36:01 Kensan: ah :-) Jul 13 13:36:16 Kensan: each packet is a normal SMS message Jul 13 13:36:37 Kensan: so if a packet did not arrive, then it's payload SMS message did not arrive Jul 13 13:36:46 zash: yes, it is more fitting to do general purpose data transmission over gprs. an it actually is a no brainer over GPRS since you can do full-blown ip. Jul 13 13:37:17 kW: yes, so how do you recover? or do you abort? Jul 13 13:37:32 the only advantage that sms has is the wakeup Jul 13 13:37:33 Kensan: there is no need to recover, the message just did not arrive Jul 13 13:37:41 kW: notify the sender, that soem data is missing or notify the user that he should try to find a wlan hotspot? ;) Jul 13 13:37:45 Kensan: (optionally you can tell the user that a message is missing) Jul 13 13:38:28 kW: so we would be stuck with the delivery guarantees of "normal" SMS. Jul 13 13:38:33 Kensan: that's another idea actually, to store all sent SMS messages such that they can be sent _a second time_ over encrypted Jabber (once the sender has a cheap internet connection) Jul 13 13:39:04 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: and awakening on phone call YUHU Jul 13 13:39:18 Kensan: this can be enhanced the following way: always prefer encrypted SMS over encrypted Jabber, if the receiver is offline however, use encrypted SMS over SMS Jul 13 13:39:24 kW: I meant Java-Using as an Fallback_Catch_Method on _other Phones_ than Neo-Compatible ones. Jul 13 13:39:39 rm: I see Jul 13 13:39:49 kW: having messaging integrated in one application is a big plus since the phone could determine the best way to send them (if wlan is available try jabber or email, if not try gprs with jabber & email, if not try sms etc.) Jul 13 13:39:50 my phone does not have java Jul 13 13:39:51 rm: that's why we should design, establish a standard and then stick to it Jul 13 13:40:12 Kensan: hehe Jul 13 13:40:30 rm: I thought you do not have access to SMS on java phones Jul 13 13:40:42 rm: at least not on most phones. Jul 13 13:40:42 Kensan: depends on the phone AFAIK Jul 13 13:41:30 kW: I have no Idea with symmetric or asymmetric Keys. I am only a 'Laie'. Jul 13 13:42:16 rm: no worries :-) Jul 13 13:42:26 kW: Then, how many 'Information' can be encrypted in 140 bytes? Jul 13 13:42:37 rm: 140 bytes worth Jul 13 13:42:44 rm: as much as in a normal SMS Jul 13 13:43:07 zash: I will try it, but this needs time. Jul 13 13:43:19 rm: compression igets interesting when you send multiple sms. Jul 13 13:44:21 rm: plus overhead... that is a nonce, a counter, and so on... Jul 13 13:44:26 rm: doing proper key establishment/agreement should not be underestimated. or you simply use the gpg/pgp infrastructure Jul 13 13:44:40 rm: that overhead can quickly become 8 bytes or 16 bytes Jul 13 13:45:33 Kensan: we should use a method which sets up a secure communication pair using not more than two SMS messages Jul 13 13:45:55 zash: 160 Digits can, with your Methods, store 800 'encrypted digits'? Jul 13 13:46:06 Kensan: that basically means that all the information regarding the public key should fit into a SMS... however, a 1024 bit public key already needs 128 bytes... Jul 13 13:47:38 kW: it would be easier if we say: you need to exchange your public keys before you can use encrypted sms or something along the lines. Jul 13 13:48:06 Kensan: that's impractical Jul 13 13:48:08 rm: what now? Jul 13 13:48:28 Kensan: this is why internet encryption is not widespread... Jul 13 13:48:39 rm: i meant that 160 characters became something like 160*5 bytes when encrypted Jul 13 13:48:42 rm: with gpg Jul 13 13:49:29 rm: but there is probably better suited chiphers Jul 13 13:49:35 kW: it is, but if you take the approach I briefly stated above (one big "messaging" app) then the keys are already there. Jul 13 13:50:14 Kensan: you cannot define the problem away... more obstacles -> less users Jul 13 13:50:27 by the way... even 1024 bits key size is too small nowadays Jul 13 13:50:40 (at least for RSA and Diffie-Hellman) Jul 13 13:50:44 kW: Does the people in 'some regions of the world' also have gold 'Kitchen-Plates' in Front of their "Home-Calculators"? I would assume 'Dubai' or something like that for such a Region. Perhaps they their have also such an Ammount/MiB? Jul 13 13:51:30 rm: how much do you pay per SMS message? Jul 13 13:51:36 kW: yes but we are talking about a pretty specific application, it will never be a "general purpose" protocol. So considering the circumstances one could make that compromise Jul 13 13:52:52 Kensan: the more specific the application, the less users will we have anyways... that means the more specific the application, the more specific to the uses (e.g. encrypted SMS over SMS) it should be Jul 13 13:53:22 kW: well what's your target audience? Jul 13 13:53:47 kW: The long-term connection is not a that bad idea. But it should be indexed with different "Encryption_Methods" for every SMS. Jul 13 13:54:30 kW: Like a Pin/TAN List in Banking, a SMS_Index_Number/Encryption_Method List. Jul 13 13:54:51 Kensan: the target audience is people who want to use SMS as normal (that is as mad as normal), just encrypted Jul 13 13:54:55 kW: my point is: if you have someone that cares about encrypting his sms, then I imagine that person accepts that there are some constraints under which that can work. Copying a public key to your freeruner is not that much work. especially when you could directly do that via wlan from a keyserver. Jul 13 13:55:05 kW: is. Jul 13 13:55:09 kW: ic. Jul 13 13:55:11 Kensan: no, encryption has to be plug and play in order to work Jul 13 13:55:35 Kensan: else only a minority will use it and eventually it will be outlawed, because everybody who uses encrypted is a terrorist Jul 13 13:55:37 ScaredyCat: ping Jul 13 13:55:40 Kensan: else only a minority will use it and eventually it will be outlawed, because everybody who uses encryption is a terrorist Jul 13 13:56:04 kW: I just don't see that, because openmoko phones that support this kind of sms encryption are a marginal number. So all your friends will have "normal" phones that cannot decrypt your sms. Jul 13 13:56:17 Kensan: then this has to change Jul 13 13:56:20 kW: So that the "Short-Interesting" Information Word, can be protected in "Sentence" for long-Term Connection with changing "Encryption Methods". Jul 13 13:56:34 Kensan: that's why rm talked about implementing SMS encryption on different platforms Jul 13 13:56:44 kW: oh ok. so we are not talking about a technical issue. Jul 13 13:57:04 Kensan: no, we talk about (political) economics here ;-) Jul 13 13:57:28 kW: well see, I missed that part at the beginning. I see your plan now. Jul 13 13:57:40 rm: I don't get you, do you want to switch encryption methods as a means to switch encryption keys? Jul 13 13:57:49 I for one welcome our new sms encrypting overl... oh, wrong forum. Jul 13 13:59:09 ;-) Jul 13 13:59:39 arrrgh python-pygtk is available for the neo, but no python-pyqt :/ Jul 13 13:59:40 kW: unfortunately, I believe until you reach your goal, SMS will be obsolete. Jul 13 13:59:57 Kensan: you are a technician, I suppose... Jul 13 14:00:07 Kensan: if you were an economist, you wouldn't think so ;-) Jul 13 14:00:44 Kensan: just because GPRS and WLAN are technically superior, it does not mean that people will stop using SMS Jul 13 14:01:09 kW: yes, I am an engineer ;) Jul 13 14:01:10 Kensan: there are countries where people use SMS like mad, sending 30 messages a day Jul 13 14:01:24 like the United States? :p Jul 13 14:01:38 Chocky: actually, the US has been a latecomer in SMS uptake Jul 13 14:01:41 and the telcos are laughing all the way to the bank Jul 13 14:01:54 I know, but I know such people Jul 13 14:02:05 Chocky: yes, they are laughing... Jul 13 14:02:09 kW: well that's basically everywhere. But I believe the habit of using the mobile phone will drastically change in the coming years. As I mentioned: one will not care over which medium you send the message, you just want to send a message. Jul 13 14:02:27 and yes, SMS costs about 1000 times what it should Jul 13 14:02:50 given that email is close to free Jul 13 14:02:53 Chocky, that's why I think it will be gone sooner than later. Jul 13 14:03:24 then we'll have more spams than ever over SMS Jul 13 14:03:41 Kensan: that habit may change for the "avantgarde" users, but the wide body of non-technical users are just learning how to use SMS... they won't learn some other technology else just because it is available and more efficient Jul 13 14:04:00 kW: just learning? Jul 13 14:04:22 kW: sms is the backend. Entering messages into your phone, that's what people have learned. Jul 13 14:04:24 Kensan: people need to learn the concept of what an SMS message is... Jul 13 14:04:39 kW: no they don't care. Jul 13 14:04:49 kW: and neither should they. Jul 13 14:05:13 Kensan: yes, and now confront them "Er... You have to install my public key into your phone... download it here, bring it onto this little microSD-card... plug it in... chose my key..." Jul 13 14:05:16 kW: people want to tell their friends something they don't want to send an SMS. Jul 13 14:05:44 Kensan: you get now why SMS encryption needs to be as seamless as possible? ;-) Jul 13 14:05:48 kW: that's why I said the audience for such an application is very small. Jul 13 14:06:30 so, the wiki is hopelessly unclear on this, but if I plug FR and a device into a hub, I can access the device via FR. it will draw power from FR of course. Jul 13 14:06:31 Kensan: that's why I say whe must optimize the application (+its ecosystem) such that the audience becomes as large as possible Jul 13 14:06:47 kW: that's why I say you are betting on a dying horse ;) Jul 13 14:06:48 Kensan: you know the network effect: the use of a network of n nodes is proportional to n²... Jul 13 14:07:02 any qtopia-on-sd-card users here? how do I get the root filesystem as tarball or folder to copy to the sd card? Jul 13 14:07:23 do I need to do as instructed here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Userspace_root_image#Mounting_the_JFFS2_image_on_a_loop_back_.28MTD_RAM.29_device Jul 13 14:07:27 Kensan: for the small (technically advanced) audience maybe, but not for the bulk audience Jul 13 14:07:55 vpv: I think the Debian instructions will be very similar: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian Jul 13 14:08:11 kW: well, there we disagree :) Jul 13 14:09:04 Kensan: this may not be a practical problem if we build a system which caters for both the technical advanced and the bulk users Jul 13 14:09:30 Does somebody know if there's a debug mode for old openmoko-* packages ? Jul 13 14:09:34 (dialer for example) Jul 13 14:10:36 kW: well then the first and foremost problem is if you have access to SMS on *most* phones. Jul 13 14:10:48 kW: be it via Java or whatnot. Jul 13 14:10:55 moo. Jul 13 14:11:10 Chocky: I would still need the rootfs in a tarball (not .jffs2), which is what I'm looking for... Jul 13 14:11:23 Kensan: Java, Symbian, Windows Mobile, Openmoko... Jul 13 14:11:38 I forgot the iphone, of course... Jul 13 14:11:59 kW: if you can't provide a solution for *most* phones then it's dead in the water. Jul 13 14:12:01 hi guys Jul 13 14:12:10 kW: or reduced to the technical users Jul 13 14:12:12 * dimko has tryed different distributions already Jul 13 14:12:13 Kensan: that's what I'm saying Jul 13 14:12:32 did anyone try gps yet? Jul 13 14:12:47 no matter what i do - i can't make it work... Jul 13 14:12:59 dimko: search the community-ml archives ;) Jul 13 14:13:05 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080712/Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080712-om-gta02.rootfs.tar.gz Jul 13 14:13:06 youll find hundreds of mails Jul 13 14:13:39 Tanuva: and much confusion. The page on the wiki is best Jul 13 14:14:06 FWIW, I haven't make it work yet either Jul 13 14:14:06 hm.. right. Jul 13 14:14:33 just curious, are there any developers on this channel? Jul 13 14:14:54 yes, but it's Sunday 7am in California :p Jul 13 14:15:23 16:15/4:15pm in germany :P Jul 13 14:15:25 kW: well then I wish you good luck with that project. :) Jul 13 14:17:27 Kensan: thank you... :-) I'll have to do other stuff and get a proper Freerunner (without hardware (GPS) bugs) first... ;-) Jul 13 14:18:41 kW: you mentioned dm-crypt. how about that project? Jul 13 14:19:03 kW: btw, are you subscribed to the mokosec-ml? Jul 13 14:19:30 Kensan: I'm subscribed now Jul 13 14:20:17 kW: ic, I sent a mail their earlier today with my ramblings about "GSM-Call" encryption. maybe you want to take a look in the archives... Jul 13 14:20:25 Kensan: I'll tackle dm-crypt first, because I think it is important to get this into mainstream and I like to store sensitive data (e.g. passwords) on my phone without worrying that this data leaks somewhere Jul 13 14:21:00 mickeyl: Good news, openmoko-dialer calls our adapter. Bad news it crashes after. Jul 13 14:21:23 kW: sounds good. Maybe we can do it in a way that using the before mentioned microSD smartcard for key storage is painless and easy to use. Jul 13 14:22:23 Ainulindale: progress :) Jul 13 14:22:41 Kensan: I'd like to use the microSD slot for extended storage (e.g. music)... so I'd like to develop a version which survives without using the microSD slot Jul 13 14:22:54 (this does not preclude storing keys in a microSD smartcard, of course) Jul 13 14:22:55 mickeyl: yep, but I was just looking for a way to debug dialer, I suppose I have to build it and install the dbg version ? Jul 13 14:23:34 kW: yes I was more saying, that the solution should work easily in all cases. Jul 13 14:24:01 kW: the microSD smartcard has 512 Meg too. not much but still Jul 13 14:25:13 Kensan: a combined smartcard+storage card would be interesting... Jul 13 14:25:17 Ainulindale: should be simpler. usually OE emist a -dbg package containing the debug symbols for every package. so, install a few debug symbol packages and launch dgb Jul 13 14:25:31 or even TCPA in freerunner for that purpose (I know some people would object...) Jul 13 14:25:33 kW: that's what it is. Jul 13 14:25:41 mickeyl: that was my guess, so I just have to wait until bitbake openmoko-dialer ends I guess Jul 13 14:26:00 Kensan: I mean with 8GiB Jul 13 14:26:09 kW: one can do a lot with a real smartcard on the freerunner ;) Jul 13 14:26:15 kW: yeah 512 is a bit low. Jul 13 14:26:38 kW: I imagine space is tight ;) microSD is crazy small... Jul 13 14:31:22 is there somewhere documentation on python-netclient? Google isnt helpful >.< Jul 13 14:33:48 zash: my old phone also has no Java. But then these phones are not able (source-closed) to receive or send enrypted SMS or Decrypt SMS. As most (all?) Phones are (Source-closed) they cant take part of Encryption (e.g. of SMS), or? Jul 13 14:42:13 alright. Debian on my FR. gotta be done. Jul 13 14:44:16 Yeah. Get Josm running on it too, and the crowd will love you. Jul 13 14:44:20 kW: 0,19 Euro / SMS to other Mobile-Phone-Services, 0,05 Euro / SMS to T-Mobil. Jul 13 14:45:15 = rip off :p Jul 13 14:45:54 Hmpf. Can't build openmoko-dialer, it seems I can't build openmoko-libs, won't find the sources, even on the svn. Jul 13 14:46:55 Hmm... lemme just check my prices... Jul 13 14:47:16 kW: I also would support the generic approach. Like HTTP-Sec."SMS-Sec." Jul 13 14:48:00 kW: Yes. There should really be an open Standard for Encryption of SMS. Jul 13 14:48:20 DKK 0.10 per SMS, DKK 0.01 per minute talk, DKK 1.00 per MB data traffic, DKK 1.00 per MMS Jul 13 14:48:34 and in EUR, lessee... Jul 13 14:49:40 hello Jul 13 14:49:52 rm: this is till 312.5€/MB to T-Mobil Jul 13 14:50:00 EUR 0.0134 per SMS, EUR 0.0013 per minute talk, 0.1344 per MB data traffic, 0.1344 per MMS Jul 13 14:50:07 Is there a feed where I could get the dbg version of any package ? Jul 13 14:50:20 Prepaid plan with no minimum spend :) Jul 13 14:50:25 leinir: looks like data traffic is the cheapest Jul 13 14:50:33 I am thinking about buying this phone, and I am interested in the gps feature, but I hav eno clear if there is any navigation program and maps Jul 13 14:50:42 kW: Yup :) Jul 13 14:50:43 there are Jul 13 14:51:20 Chocky, and where can they be found? Jul 13 14:51:22 kW: If it is possible, then every Message is encrypted with an other Encryption Method following a Index on a List, that was before "manually" created. Jul 13 14:51:30 in the packages :p Jul 13 14:51:35 took at tangogps Jul 13 14:51:55 and for GPS on the wiki Jul 13 14:52:35 I will have a look at it... I didn't know there were free maps :) Jul 13 14:52:47 rm: why should this be? Jul 13 14:53:12 leinir: what is the latency of data traffic? Jul 13 14:53:37 i don't know, i've never used it i'm afraid :) Jul 13 14:54:03 leinir: it looks like voice over data seems to be the cheapest, too Jul 13 14:54:21 leinir: and thus encrypted voice over data would not only be secure, but also cheaper Jul 13 14:54:39 *nods* Bibob's data traffic is supposedly quite good, yeah :) Jul 13 14:55:21 leiir! Jul 13 14:56:07 * leinir curtsies to Dave :) Jul 13 14:56:15 * Chocky h5s Dave Jul 13 14:56:33 o/^ Jul 13 14:56:56 Dave: FR -> USB hub -> USB device will let me access device from FR, right? Jul 13 14:57:26 Well, openmoko-libs seem to be nowhere, anybody knows where they're located ? Jul 13 14:59:04 in picture 7 on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973 it may seem like there is some kind of epoxy or other insulator on the solder between gps antenna cable and gsp antenna module. has anyone seen this on their GTA02/FreeRunner ? Jul 13 14:59:14 possibly Jul 13 14:59:30 it is very likely though Jul 13 14:59:43 well, I'll just have to try. Jul 13 14:59:57 yep :) Jul 13 15:00:13 I suppose it depends on your usb hub :] Jul 13 15:00:13 Chocky, is it possible to use maps from other programs with tangogps? Jul 13 15:00:23 only thing is, the mouse will be bigger than the FR ;p Jul 13 15:00:27 sintaur, sure you can use other map repos Jul 13 15:00:30 sintuar: dunno. Jul 13 15:00:35 Chocky, rofl :D Jul 13 15:00:43 _and_ it's a small mouse Jul 13 15:00:51 teehee Jul 13 15:00:53 Dave, I ment like just install tomtom maps Jul 13 15:00:55 not another shower radio? :D Jul 13 15:00:57 or something like that Jul 13 15:01:01 ohhhhhhhh Jul 13 15:01:10 you just want a map app? :P Jul 13 15:01:15 heh, commerical maps will be more tricky Jul 13 15:01:17 or tomtom Jul 13 15:01:20 right Jul 13 15:01:23 also illegal :D Jul 13 15:01:23 well Jul 13 15:01:29 not htat many here care :P Jul 13 15:01:33 well, depends where you live Jul 13 15:01:33 :-P Jul 13 15:01:42 free maps tend not to have things like one way streets, but that Jul 13 15:01:49 yes, that is why Jul 13 15:01:51 but that's improving, and depends upon country Jul 13 15:02:19 In Soviet Russia, country maps you! Jul 13 15:02:30 mm, frogpad so expensive Jul 13 15:03:08 so, I suppose that tangogps can not do routing... Jul 13 15:03:27 there's other GPS mapping apps for FR Jul 13 15:03:46 I don't know how all the features compare Jul 13 15:03:47 uhh Jul 13 15:03:50 right Jul 13 15:04:00 there's a new nav on actually :D Jul 13 15:04:07 specifically aimed at driving, I believe :) Jul 13 15:04:12 och. Jul 13 15:04:19 how is it called? Jul 13 15:04:24 "sexy" Jul 13 15:06:05 heh Jul 13 15:06:14 I think it meant, WHAT is it called ;) Jul 13 15:07:37 hm, accessing the mircoSD is kinda slow. Jul 13 15:07:54 copying via SD slot on desktop Jul 13 15:08:11 ugh. full Jul 13 15:08:14 * Chocky gives up Jul 13 15:08:21 Chocky: mine goes at 12M/second when plugged into my USB2 reader Jul 13 15:08:49 Speedevil, cheater. Jul 13 15:08:57 yes, this is a USB2 reader Jul 13 15:09:45 * Chocky unpacks it locally first, then removes crap Jul 13 15:10:03 clean up your mess :P Jul 13 15:10:17 not my mess. someone else's Jul 13 15:10:21 :P Jul 13 15:10:52 plus Debian is a bit bloated for embedded systems Jul 13 15:10:57 pah! Jul 13 15:11:01 >:) Jul 13 15:11:26 guys, thanks for the info ;) Jul 13 15:12:21 /usr/share/doc = 37MB. bye-bye Jul 13 15:12:30 Nooooooooooooooooooooo Jul 13 15:12:32 :( Jul 13 15:12:43 man = 13MB. whoosh. Jul 13 15:13:05 jackass :P Jul 13 15:13:27 still 474MB. well, at least it'll fit now Jul 13 15:13:28 I'm pissed enough that OM doesn't have manpages. Jul 13 15:13:31 right :P Jul 13 15:13:33 heh Jul 13 15:13:34 Why are we blowing away the doc files? Jul 13 15:13:44 You know you could just get a bigger card :P Jul 13 15:13:47 cos the Debian image was 515MB Jul 13 15:13:56 time, effort and money Jul 13 15:14:02 Dude, netinstall, motherfucker! :D Jul 13 15:14:10 once I get it to boot, I can remove more packages. Jul 13 15:14:15 that'll take forever. Jul 13 15:14:29 Your loading debian on your OM? Jul 13 15:14:34 do you doubt my Debian skillz, padawan Jul 13 15:14:34 Hell yeah! Jul 13 15:14:40 Hell yeah x 2 ! Jul 13 15:14:48 hello Jul 13 15:14:50 Awesome. Jul 13 15:15:08 is "df-util --upload" buggy? Jul 13 15:15:22 Well I can't find this #@! openmoko-libs sources Jul 13 15:17:53 is there a command line editor on gta02 by default that is not vi? Jul 13 15:17:56 Damn, where is UPS taking my phone? It left sunnyvale on Friday, but hasn't been scanned since... Jul 13 15:18:37 opkg install nano Jul 13 15:18:59 opkg install debian Jul 13 15:19:00 :D Jul 13 15:19:17 that's a longer way to get nano, yes Jul 13 15:19:35 whats wrong with vi? Jul 13 15:19:46 everything! Jul 13 15:19:52 bah! Jul 13 15:19:57 hah Jul 13 15:20:00 teh hate Jul 13 15:20:02 :wq! is what's wrong with vi Jul 13 15:20:13 hehe Jul 13 15:20:18 argh.... I'm pretty sure my FR is affected by the broken GPS issue Jul 13 15:20:26 * nullpuppy loves teh vim Jul 13 15:20:57 * Dave high-fives nullpuppy Jul 13 15:21:02 sitwon: :( Jul 13 15:21:06 sitwon, yeah :( Jul 13 15:21:16 Chocky: Simple, it's approach to usability - there's more to usability than effectiveness ;) Jul 13 15:21:32 vi is fine - but not as default editor for anything Jul 13 15:21:32 sitwon: you've found the GPS page? Jul 13 15:21:38 It scares people away ;) Jul 13 15:21:40 sitwon: and how to check it? Jul 13 15:21:42 SpeedEvil: I found three Jul 13 15:21:49 and I've been following convos on the ML Jul 13 15:21:50 hum. what is uBoot expecting for uImage. Jul 13 15:22:00 leinir: but it's so easy to use! and so freaking powerful! Jul 13 15:22:01 I don't get any dBm Jul 13 15:22:07 no fixes even after 15 min Jul 13 15:22:10 (once you realize how to use it at least....) Jul 13 15:22:10 sitwon: been outside? Jul 13 15:22:11 nothing that even looks like a fix Jul 13 15:22:17 SpeedEvil: ofcourse Jul 13 15:22:19 :/ Jul 13 15:22:28 * SpeedEvil passes sitwon a soldering iron. Jul 13 15:22:33 [Vielen Dank für die Aufmerksamkeit. M.f.G.] Thanks for Attention. Jul 13 15:22:45 is there any word on wheter or now OpenMoko will fix it or do we have to crack it open ourselves? Jul 13 15:22:54 Not yet. Jul 13 15:22:59 sitwon: I suggest we wait the week out and see what they say Jul 13 15:22:59 nullpuppy: Exactly my point - it's super effective :) Which is *not* what you want if you only use it every three or four weeks ;) Jul 13 15:23:18 leinir: hehe, *shrugs* Jul 13 15:23:23 ok... I'd rather not take a soldering iron to it myself Jul 13 15:23:31 I will if I have to. Jul 13 15:23:38 and if it is poor soldering it should be coverd by the warranty Jul 13 15:23:53 http://bc.tech.coop/blog/images/curves.jpg Jul 13 15:24:10 huhu Jul 13 15:24:26 Dave: Looks about right :) Kate is missing, though ;) Jul 13 15:24:41 pfft Jul 13 15:24:46 doesn't deserve one Jul 13 15:24:56 fucking KDE Jul 13 15:25:07 KDE on FR - Hell yeah! Jul 13 15:25:28 hmm, yeah, that looks about right. Jul 13 15:25:47 Chocky: There's a GSoC project to get Plasma to work on small formfactor devices :) The main target is Neo1973 ;) Jul 13 15:25:55 muh Jul 13 15:25:57 :p Jul 13 15:26:04 * nullpuppy wonders if the emacs graph is supposed to imply that you go insane using it. Jul 13 15:26:42 uh huh :P Jul 13 15:26:42 leinir: wtf? they really want that? Oo Jul 13 15:26:52 Tanuva! Jul 13 15:26:59 Dave! Jul 13 15:27:31 lol vim! Jul 13 15:27:36 Tanuva: Of course :) Plasma is supposed to be resolution independent, so getting it to work on something like the freerunner, well... :) Jul 13 15:27:42 Dave: Where does "huhu" originate? Jul 13 15:27:54 Look it up! :D Jul 13 15:27:56 didn't i see screenshots of KDE4 on the freerunner? Jul 13 15:28:00 on scap.blahasomething Jul 13 15:28:05 zash: Very likely :) Jul 13 15:28:31 i know there were some posted on planetkde.org at one point :) Jul 13 15:28:42 scap.linuxtogo.org probably Jul 13 15:30:30 http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/84dfd969e800538893c6e63e34742e99.png Jul 13 15:31:04 There ya go :) Thanks! Jul 13 15:31:11 neat Jul 13 15:31:12 no problem :) Jul 13 15:31:23 balrogkun! ^^ Jul 13 15:31:27 * zash was to lazy to write scap.linuxtogo.org Jul 13 15:32:06 mickeyl ? if you have five minutes, I can't manage to build openmoko-libs, it won't find the sources (http or svn) Jul 13 15:32:10 * Tanuva is surprised Jul 13 15:32:13 Even with AUTOREV Jul 13 15:33:15 does upload option in df-util work? Jul 13 15:33:43 svn.openmoko.org works from ehre Jul 13 15:34:00 Yep it works but it won't find the sources Jul 13 15:34:05 malik1972: i heard it works Jul 13 15:34:12 from juri_ Jul 13 15:34:16 it can't find http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/openmoko-libs Jul 13 15:34:17 it doesnt for me Jul 13 15:34:22 which is normal as it doesn't exist it seems Jul 13 15:34:35 And as it's a dependency of openmoko-dialer... Jul 13 15:35:09 hmm Jul 13 15:35:19 openmoko-libs... Jul 13 15:35:25 that sounds pretty old Jul 13 15:35:26 balrog-kun: want do backup nor uboot env and to restore it in nand env Jul 13 15:35:31 perhaps you're looking for openmoko-dialer2 Jul 13 15:35:37 openmoko-dialer no longer exists, really Jul 13 15:35:47 i should remove that 2007.1 stuff from OE Jul 13 15:35:52 Ow man this is such a pain :-) Jul 13 15:36:18 Oh by the way thanks for the feed thing, it's really working nicely Jul 13 15:36:27 :) Jul 13 15:36:31 I think we ought to set up one for SHR Jul 13 15:36:50 Instead of bitbaking our own packages individually Jul 13 15:36:51 balrog-kun: but it backups the nand uboot env !?! Jul 13 15:37:46 i don't know Jul 13 15:42:33 Is Mokomakefile's "make update" working for anyone? It's failing for me with "fatal: Needed a single revision" "invalid upstream origin/bitbake-om" Jul 13 15:43:49 cesarb: Worked for me yesterday Jul 13 15:43:53 From a clean build Jul 13 15:44:12 then I got a problem with assasin using https for svn Jul 13 15:44:36 And after I got around that it failed on mono-native Jul 13 15:44:54 CM: strange. Mine should be the cleanest build, since I nuked everything and started from scratch yesterday, and only did "make setup", "make build-qemu", "make tools" and "make image" Jul 13 15:45:09 CM: with the most recent mokomakefile Jul 13 15:45:16 Same here Jul 13 15:45:34 Didn't start completely clean though, just with a make clobber Jul 13 15:45:42 then make update all Jul 13 15:45:53 hi errbody Jul 13 15:46:16 I prefer make cobbler Jul 13 15:46:31 mmm, cobbler Jul 13 15:46:32 peach, blueberry, Jul 13 15:46:40 * nuclear_eclipse hungry Jul 13 15:47:16 i'm on ubuntu 8.04 and want to try building all from scratch. i have v1 hardware (freerunner on the way) . got a link that says exactly what to do start to finish? Jul 13 15:47:40 awesomo4k: Yes, I think there's good instructions in the wiki Jul 13 15:48:13 k. wasn't sure if that was current. Jul 13 15:48:22 awesomo4k: Easiest way is probably by using the makefile: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile Jul 13 15:49:24 * cesarb tested with the most recent git too, so it's not the distro's old git causing the problem Jul 13 15:49:30 on another note... has anyone got a non-X11 distro in the works? Jul 13 15:50:00 awesomo4k: weren't they going _away_ from non-X11 distros? Jul 13 15:50:39 Doesn't MokoUnderground use the fb directly? Jul 13 15:50:39 can anyone give me a link on some goo jiff2 file please? something that is more or less usable? i am not looking for quickness, rather for being future ritch Jul 13 15:50:58 MokoUnderground -- i saw that .. wasn't that some german hackers ? Jul 13 15:51:14 i was thinking ncurses w a touchscreen in my head Jul 13 15:51:15 * CM pokes emdete :) Jul 13 15:51:45 awesomo4k: Maybe just use a minimal angstrom or fso-light image? Jul 13 15:51:50 Anyone tried using the Freerunner with Rogers? Jul 13 15:52:07 fso-light ? Jul 13 15:52:09 dimko: Tried ScaredyCat's 2007.2 images? Jul 13 15:52:18 awesomo4k: You can build it using the makefile Jul 13 15:52:26 It's a minimal fso image Jul 13 15:52:33 cool. Jul 13 15:52:58 dimko: http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/ Jul 13 15:53:15 CM: thank you :) Jul 13 15:53:28 CM: isn't FSO already minimal? :P Jul 13 15:53:51 nuclear_eclipse: Heh, I just finished building both, haven't tried them yet Jul 13 15:53:58 how long do builds usually take Jul 13 15:54:03 dimko: I suggest the scaredycat-openmoko-devel-image-om-gta01.jffs2 image Jul 13 15:54:23 awesomo4k: The first build takes a while. Depends on what computer you have Jul 13 15:54:42 I couldn't get the scaredycat images working on my FR Jul 13 15:54:54 cray y/mp Jul 13 15:54:59 * dimko is already wgeting it Jul 13 15:55:08 dimko: Oh, sorry Jul 13 15:55:20 Make sure it's for a FreeRunner and not GTA01 Jul 13 15:55:30 thats coo, i have freerunner Jul 13 15:56:23 can i build a dist that works on both gta01 and freerunner or is it significantly different for the new hardware ? Jul 13 15:56:36 yae Jul 13 15:56:44 * dimko was downloading gt01 Jul 13 15:56:51 awesomo4k: I guess the ipkgs works fine Jul 13 15:56:57 you would need differend modules I think... but mostly it could work fine Jul 13 15:57:17 *different Jul 13 15:57:19 dimko: Latest official builds for the freerunner: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080712/ Jul 13 15:57:36 any idea why I get "Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(179,2)" when trying to boot either 2007.2 or Qtopia proper from the "default" SD card? I've followed http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Boot_from_sd_card Jul 13 15:57:36 CM: could you see if your bitbake/.git/config file has more than the "[core]" section? mine has only that section, which doesn't make sense Jul 13 15:57:48 tryed most fo them by now... :( Jul 13 15:58:09 vpv: there was discussion about it, but I dont know if they have a real solution to this issue yet Jul 13 15:58:27 cesarb: http://pastebin.ca/1070952 Jul 13 15:58:32 leinir make my qtopia work please! Jul 13 15:58:33 ah. discussion about or discussion on? or another preposition? :D Jul 13 15:58:42 Tanuva: so is it an issue with the new kernel or what? Jul 13 15:59:09 vpv: since the kernel produces the message, I'd say yes. but I'm no expert Jul 13 15:59:11 Dave: Hmm? i'm just a user! lpotter is the one who knows :) Jul 13 15:59:18 CM: yep, yours make sense. I'm trying to figure out which nonsense did mokomakefile did to nuke that section Jul 13 15:59:22 It'd be great to be able to dual-boot to qtopia (or ASU) with the 2007.2 Jul 13 15:59:24 is there any fso image around, which I could boot from the sd card to play around with evas/edje and it's python bindings? Jul 13 15:59:26 s/did mokomakefile did/did mokomakefile do/ Jul 13 15:59:26 cesarb meant: CM: yep, yours make sense. I'm trying to figure out which nonsense did mokomakefile do to nuke that section Jul 13 15:59:48 vpv: it was something about ext2 being a module instead of compiled into the kernel Jul 13 15:59:52 lpotter is even less helpful! Jul 13 16:00:40 Tanuva: well, with my very limited kernel experience, that could probably make sense ;) Jul 13 16:00:55 Dave: morning! Jul 13 16:01:39 Hello Joerg! :D Jul 13 16:02:08 CM: great, doing the _checkout_ with the distro's old git doesn't setup things properly... and later it tries to do a checkout -b ... --track ..., but the distro's git doesn't have --track! Jul 13 16:02:34 cesarb: Ah, crappy.. Jul 13 16:02:38 That's what I get for using last year's distro :| Jul 13 16:02:57 cesarb: what distro? Jul 13 16:02:59 * jOERG_rw is just charging a noname battery "For 6230i" in FR. Costs him 5€ Jul 13 16:03:00 * cesarb now has to remember to add his self-compiled git to the path before using mokomakefile Jul 13 16:03:16 nuclear_eclipse: Ubuntu 7.04 Jul 13 16:03:19 :o Jul 13 16:03:29 CM: well, i dont want to ask many stupid questions, can you perhaps give me some of your link on distributions? i mean, wiki for openmoko is cool, but you may have soething thaat is not there. thanks Jul 13 16:03:34 add, you could just install the gt package from newer ubuntu :P Jul 13 16:03:38 joerg, so what all can charge the fr? Jul 13 16:03:47 any dumb usb charger? :o Jul 13 16:04:25 Dave: 3.6V LiIon batteries that snuggly fit n mechanically Jul 13 16:04:34 eh? Jul 13 16:04:36 dimko: Hmm.. I don't know if there's any good overview anywhere Jul 13 16:04:53 any charger will do? :o Jul 13 16:05:10 i asked this question yesterday night, but i don't want to depend on one opinion only - is there need to update kernel everytime you update filesystem? i know it probably wil work, but will there be any problems with modules or anything like that? Jul 13 16:05:12 I mean, it auto-negotiates, right? Jul 13 16:05:21 dimko: maybe Jul 13 16:05:22 Dave: no Jul 13 16:05:26 haha Jul 13 16:05:26 Dave: sorry I didn't get your question. Please reword Jul 13 16:05:35 I was hoping you wouldn't notice, sPEEDEVIL Jul 13 16:05:35 Dave: dumbchargers are not smart enough to negotiate Jul 13 16:05:39 :P Jul 13 16:05:43 :D Jul 13 16:05:52 but I want to blow mine up... :( Jul 13 16:06:01 Dave: they have recognition methods that must be picked up by the FR Jul 13 16:06:16 dimko: Usually you can update the kernel and rootfs independently, but don't leave the kernen un-updated for too long :) Jul 13 16:06:28 scaredy cat image for frerunner is quite old though... Jul 13 16:07:15 Dave: SpeedEvil: FR takes every USB-wallcharger. You have to switch to fastcharge via sowftware, because they miss the magic 47k-resistor Jul 13 16:07:22 dimko: I noticed. He only has a gta01, like me Jul 13 16:07:38 I almost forgot there's all these FreeRunner people in here now ;) Jul 13 16:07:41 CM: sure, i know, that fresh kernel is feature ritch kernel, but my point is - is there a problem with jeff2 files if i dont update kernel with them? is there a special kernel for every jffs2? Jul 13 16:07:42 jOERG_rw: yes, that's what I mean Jul 13 16:08:17 Dave: SpeedEvil: FR in turn charges every battery that's LiIon and fits to the mechanical dimensions to insert Jul 13 16:08:19 CM: fair enough, may be someone shod do #freerunner? :) Jul 13 16:08:51 dimko: Hehe, na, just me being a bit slow. I'll wait for the gta03 for now, need to save some cash Jul 13 16:09:21 its not going to have gps if i am not mistaking Jul 13 16:09:47 * dimko really wants gps feature, since he is going to buy a motorbike Jul 13 16:09:50 SpeedEvil: yeah, without 47k or sw-switching, it will only power 100mA :-/ Jul 13 16:10:01 SpeedEvil: that's USB-spec Jul 13 16:10:29 SpeedEvil: not to kill any usb-host Jul 13 16:11:52 joerg, yeah Jul 13 16:11:54 I'd rather it did :D Jul 13 16:12:13 I have a few car chargers Jul 13 16:12:28 and who knows what they're specs are :p Jul 13 16:12:51 but at the very least each one should power it 100mA then, right? :P Jul 13 16:12:54 Dave: nah, those are "unbreakable" Jul 13 16:13:08 Dave: it should say *exactly* what their specs are, on the casing :P Jul 13 16:13:11 haha Jul 13 16:13:16 nuclear_eclipse: nope :D Jul 13 16:13:21 haha Jul 13 16:13:23 dimko: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-June/018425.html Jul 13 16:13:30 I could test one of them though Jul 13 16:13:39 Dave: they are good for a 500mA anyway, for sure Jul 13 16:13:47 I would assume so Jul 13 16:13:53 I'm pretty sure they're 1A Jul 13 16:14:20 Well, it's all good. Jul 13 16:14:27 So long as you don't leave you freerunner in the car on a hot day Jul 13 16:14:30 because it will melt :D Jul 13 16:14:46 Really? That sucks. Jul 13 16:14:51 Dave: yeah probably :D Jul 13 16:14:53 also, if the battery gets too hot, it shuts off Jul 13 16:14:54 :[ Jul 13 16:15:44 rivalarrival: ever forgot a vnyl-LP in a car on a hot day ;-) Jul 13 16:15:47 ? Jul 13 16:16:03 I've forgotten casette tapes Jul 13 16:16:05 jOERG_rw: you mean CD's ;) :P Jul 13 16:16:07 jOERG_rw: Considering I was born in 1981, no. Jul 13 16:16:08 they melted into the dash Jul 13 16:16:09 :D Jul 13 16:16:47 rivalarrival: ah, sorry. always frget I'm an old man ;-P Jul 13 16:17:00 jOERG_rw: Old? Try ancient. :-) Jul 13 16:17:38 :D Jul 13 16:17:59 rivalarrival: so yu're not exactly a DJ? I bet... Jul 13 16:17:59 Nah, Joerg is good! :D Jul 13 16:18:09 Dave: the alternative is to just assume that any 5V source that's not a USB host in suspend or active is a valid cahrger, and fast charge from it. Jul 13 16:18:19 Dave: but that's not been implemented yet. Jul 13 16:18:34 Right Jul 13 16:18:50 I am aware of the stinginess and lack of fancy features in that department Jul 13 16:18:55 Battery life at teh moment is very much a work in progress. Currently suspend is broken, so you get 6-12 hours depending on what's on. The hardware appears capable of doing a week standby, with 20 hours mp3, and 5 hours+ talk time. Jul 13 16:18:56 Joerg has kept me up to date Jul 13 16:18:58 SpeedEvil: but that's exactly he line I actually was thinking along this very moment Jul 13 16:19:13 right :) Jul 13 16:19:27 No automagic :P Jul 13 16:19:43 Hi. If I want to hack a little bit on the openmoko-messages2 package, what is the easiest way to get started? MokoMakefile or something smaller? Jul 13 16:19:47 SpeedEvil: na, wouldn't bet for 20h MP3 Jul 13 16:19:54 heh Jul 13 16:19:57 more power! Jul 13 16:19:58 jOERG_rw: I can get near that on GTA01 Jul 13 16:19:58 SpeedEvil: it's high CPU-load anyway Jul 13 16:20:03 jOERG_rw: no it's not Jul 13 16:20:03 * Dave steals Speedevil's powerpack Jul 13 16:20:13 fight fight fight fight! Jul 13 16:20:16 Should just make it run off 3 AAA-nimh Jul 13 16:20:17 jOERG_rw: 60MHz or so is required for MP3 Jul 13 16:20:30 jOERG_rw: I've had it going at about 60% of CPU at 100MHz on GTA01 Jul 13 16:20:56 rivalarrival: perfectly feasible, just cnnect to ba-cntacts Jul 13 16:21:05 I thought 90MHz was required for good decompression and realtime eq Jul 13 16:21:17 gnah, battery-contacts Jul 13 16:21:21 hehe Jul 13 16:21:26 * rivalarrival hates lithion ion batteries. Jul 13 16:21:30 :D Jul 13 16:21:32 yay Jul 13 16:21:38 Dave: eq - ... decoding works fine. Jul 13 16:21:47 yeah Jul 13 16:21:48 SpeedEvil: sounds god :-) Jul 13 16:21:55 good Jul 13 16:22:13 Yeah I mean, do we -really- need a 500MHz mp3 player? ;) Jul 13 16:22:15 jOERG_rw: Assuming cpufreq and volting on the SoC on FR works OK. Jul 13 16:22:19 Sounds like http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain is the way to go, right? Jul 13 16:22:24 Dave: yes! Jul 13 16:22:25 * jOERG_rw wonders if he finds time to unpack and connect the new keyboard today Jul 13 16:22:25 jOERG_rw: and there are no oopses. Jul 13 16:22:28 haha Jul 13 16:22:32 Dave: Yes. Yes we do need a 500mhz mp3 player. Jul 13 16:22:42 so that's like what, 1hr of battery life? :P Jul 13 16:23:19 stupid ipod Jul 13 16:23:32 Dave: een on 500MHz you get several hours, when backlit dim Jul 13 16:23:33 jOERG_rw: the image of the 'extras' pack in the shop shows a 1200mAh GTA01 pack. Is GTA01 and GTA02 bats compatible - or is the piccy wrong. Jul 13 16:23:38 Maybe in the current model. I'm gonna slap a big ol sealed lead acid on the back. It'll look like a cell phone from 1988. Jul 13 16:23:54 rivalarrival: I have run my GTA01 off a car battery for 24h Jul 13 16:23:57 joerg, maybe two, with the backlight fully illuminated :) Jul 13 16:24:13 They should be Jul 13 16:24:20 rivalarrival: for logging GPS results Jul 13 16:24:35 * SpeedEvil has wondered about pimping the backlight. Jul 13 16:24:36 too bad the os seems to implode after that :P Jul 13 16:24:43 hell yeah Jul 13 16:24:45 funky colors Jul 13 16:24:48 flashy lights Jul 13 16:24:49 1W+ LED Jul 13 16:24:52 SpeedEvil: never had a look at that. You can use GTA01-bat in GTA02. though I dn't think we're shipping any more GTA01-bats Jul 13 16:25:20 * nomeata wonders if anyone has put the toolchain in an apt-get’able repository for debian/ubuntu, but google does not find anythin. Jul 13 16:25:23 jOERG_rw: can the GTA01 work with a 02 bat? Jul 13 16:25:36 Yes Jul 13 16:25:38 It does. Jul 13 16:25:42 And charge? Jul 13 16:25:43 We have this in the lab. Jul 13 16:26:00 * SpeedEvil is undeusre if thethermistor is actually used. Jul 13 16:26:10 I noticed last week, our GTA01s that we have in the lab apparently have GTA01 batteries in them Jul 13 16:26:14 They definitely charge, too Jul 13 16:26:17 SpeedEvil: not quite sure. probably not. GTA01 needs NTC for temp-detection AFAIK. GTA02-bat doesn't have Jul 13 16:26:21 Though the GTA01 battery life is awful Jul 13 16:26:28 comparatively :| Jul 13 16:26:34 Daviey: I've had it up for 12h Jul 13 16:26:36 dave: Jul 13 16:26:43 Dave: at 100MHz, undervolted a bit. Jul 13 16:26:51 Yeah well, I'm saying, with no power-saving features, at normal CPU Jul 13 16:27:02 the people who've used them told me it sucked Jul 13 16:27:10 and I witnessed it go down in an hour Jul 13 16:27:13 :| Jul 13 16:27:17 It's not that bad. Jul 13 16:27:22 Unless something's wrong. Jul 13 16:27:26 Yeah yeah Jul 13 16:27:27 I regularly take it out for 3 Jul 13 16:27:32 Nice Jul 13 16:27:35 I regularly take it out for 3+ hour shopping/mapping trips. Jul 13 16:27:39 Oh, so I've been doing gps tests with the freerunners Jul 13 16:27:46 taking them in the car and such Jul 13 16:27:47 yeah Jul 13 16:27:50 With the backlight on and tangogps running Jul 13 16:27:52 I went shopping the other day Jul 13 16:27:59 I got some nice battery life out of it too! Jul 13 16:28:01 and bluetooth GPS logging Jul 13 16:28:08 running tango and whatnot Jul 13 16:28:18 downside was, I forgot how hot it would get in the car... :P Jul 13 16:28:33 almost lost a freerunner Jul 13 16:28:48 * jOERG_rw away having the urgently needed latte macciato for breakfast Jul 13 16:28:56 haha Jul 13 16:29:04 That's some breakfast, Joerg :P Jul 13 16:29:18 standard ;-) Jul 13 16:29:36 bleh :P Jul 13 16:29:36 might even consider to *eat* smething Jul 13 16:30:29 I noticed that http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ had no commits since three month. Is that then the current source for the daily built image? Jul 13 16:30:37 Joerg, that would be good :) Jul 13 16:30:40 Enjoy your breakfast! Jul 13 16:31:16 Speedevil, so have you fashioned a decently sized battery pack for the phone? :) Jul 13 16:31:22 Jul 13 16:32:09 can someone help with neocon? Jul 13 16:32:40 mmontour: hi Jul 13 16:32:44 If that's a conference, or convention, I have yet to hear about it :D Jul 13 16:32:50 sounds awesome though Jul 13 16:32:54 does anyone know if a package containing the embryo_cc compiler exists? Or what way is there to compile and create and edje file? Jul 13 16:32:56 We should have one, haha. Jul 13 16:34:01 Dave: the silly one - in principle would run it for a couple of weeks. But that the earlier comment was about the stock battery. Jul 13 16:48:32 right, I figured :) Jul 13 16:48:41 Speedevil, I do think it's a smart idea Jul 13 16:48:46 But no car batteries now :) Jul 13 16:50:20 hi. trying to follow the instructions from the Toolchain page, I get this error when running ./autogen.sh: Jul 13 16:50:33 checking whether the C compiler works... configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs. Jul 13 16:50:33 If you meant to cross compile, use `--host'. Jul 13 16:54:54 hello Jul 13 16:55:10 nomeata: on debian/ubuntu? Jul 13 16:56:19 where's the latest MokoMakefile Jul 13 16:56:24 what part am I missing if I don't have a regular taskbar (usb gsm,... icons)? Jul 13 16:56:57 oh n/m i guess the fires went away Jul 13 16:57:33 nomeata: what's the URL to the Toolchain site? Jul 13 16:57:43 garnser_: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain Jul 13 16:57:52 thx Jul 13 16:58:05 Vegar: yes. It seems it works if I skip autogen.sh, at least for the demo app Jul 13 16:58:18 * Dave attaches electrodes to Speedevil Jul 13 16:58:19 nomeata: apt-get install build-essential Jul 13 16:59:12 huhu Jul 13 16:59:52 Vegar: thx, but that’s all installed Jul 13 17:00:09 ok Jul 13 17:01:46 dang git is fast Jul 13 17:02:04 does anyone have experience of the wifi dropping 2-3 past boot? Jul 13 17:04:30 next try, building openmoko-messages2, when I run om-conf, I get this: Jul 13 17:04:41 checking for EBOOK... configure: error: Package requirements (libebook-1.2) were not met: Jul 13 17:04:50 but libebook-1.2 is available in /usr/local/openmoko Jul 13 17:05:24 mickeyl ? Jul 13 17:08:50 so, how do you build your packages for your freerunner? Jul 13 17:10:01 cardboard + tape? Jul 13 17:11:07 what's FSO stand for Jul 13 17:11:22 SpeedEvil: ;-) Jul 13 17:11:26 Free Smartphone Omage. Jul 13 17:11:41 wtf? really? Jul 13 17:11:41 Ownage Jul 13 17:11:46 * SpeedEvil is unsure of the O. Jul 13 17:11:53 it's FreeSmartphone.Org actually :p Jul 13 17:11:59 ah Jul 13 17:12:28 has anyone got the phone showing up as a storage device Jul 13 17:12:32 when plugged in usb Jul 13 17:13:04 awesomo4k: you can Jul 13 17:13:11 awesomo4k: in principle Jul 13 17:13:37 it _could_ be anything i wanted, with a little usb hacking, eh? Jul 13 17:13:50 It's a USB gadget driver Jul 13 17:14:01 the default one is a network adaptor Jul 13 17:14:08 It fakes an ethernet port. Jul 13 17:14:21 yeah that's how i've been using it.. w/ssh Jul 13 17:14:36 works well. have to remember to turn off power mgmt though or it locks up my session Jul 13 17:16:24 ok i'm at a critical point in my first full build Jul 13 17:16:32 which OM_GIT_BRANCH to specify Jul 13 17:17:43 awesomo4k: depends on which distribution you want Jul 13 17:17:54 is there a page with all the choices and differences Jul 13 17:18:09 awesomo4k: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions Jul 13 17:18:18 excellent thx Jul 13 17:18:48 * cesarb is using 2007.2 since he needs a terminal; unfortunately, _matchbox-keyboard is now broken and I cannot get a hyphen!_ Jul 13 17:19:12 of course, I can get a hyphen with multitap-pad, but then I lose the other shell characters! Jul 13 17:19:46 * cesarb hopes qtopia's promised terminal arrives soon, and also hopes qtopia's keyboard is saner Jul 13 17:20:02 bluetooth keyboard ? Jul 13 17:20:12 awesomo4k: no, builtin stylus keyboard Jul 13 17:20:49 awesomo4k: I could in theory use a bluetooth keyboard, except that I didn't test bluetooth with cpufreq yet (I'm working at cpufreq, which is why I cannot use usb/ssh... usb somehow breaks with cpufreq) Jul 13 17:21:26 this is a util for changing the cpufreq on the arm processor on the phone? Jul 13 17:21:36 awesomo4k: not a util, a kernel module Jul 13 17:21:38 related to power management? Jul 13 17:22:11 awesomo4k: you can use any normal linux cpufreq util, but you usually do echo ondemand > some/very/long/filename and let the kernel governor take over Jul 13 17:22:59 * SpeedEvil passes cesarb a hundred million dollars to get cpufreq working properly. Jul 13 17:23:06 haha Jul 13 17:23:11 cpufreq causes problems in regular linux on x86 too Jul 13 17:23:27 if you are a vmware user you've probably run into this Jul 13 17:23:38 clocks running twice as fast and stuff Jul 13 17:23:44 * Dave colludes with Speedevil to fashion a nice conforming expandable batterypack for the GTA0X Jul 13 17:24:01 * awesomo4k wants a video-out port Jul 13 17:24:17 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/100-000-000-ZIMBABWE-BANK-NOTE-UNC-VERY-HARD-TO-OBTAIN_W0QQitemZ130236300387QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item130236300387&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318 Jul 13 17:24:21 * Chocky wants moon on a stick Jul 13 17:24:28 awesomo4k: that's kinda better than my desktop, which CRASHES if you enable cpufreq. Which ubuntu insisted on doing last time I upgraded (which is why I went 6.10->7.04 and got stuck there) Jul 13 17:25:08 ick. Jul 13 17:25:16 OTOH, cpufreq works fine at work's laptop... which is to say, does nothing, since the CPU there doesn't have frequency switching Jul 13 17:26:11 looks like om2007.2 is the most full featured dist... and i like python.. would it be safe to use that one ? Jul 13 17:27:12 awesomo4k: you have to start somewhere... you can change later, after all Jul 13 17:27:28 awesomo4k: 2007.2 was cooler because of the (now broken) terminal Jul 13 17:27:34 http://www.5min.com/Video/How-to-Get-Broke-by-Buying-an-iPhone-29134947 Jul 13 17:27:53 that's the default one, right? OM_GIT_BRANCH := org.openmoko.dev <--- corresponds to om2007.2 Jul 13 17:27:58 ? Jul 13 17:27:59 awesomo4k: yep Jul 13 17:29:07 that probably seems obvious Jul 13 17:31:19 There is no libebook-1.2.pc in the toolchain provided on the wiki page, but there is http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/workdir/staging/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/usr/lib/pkgconfig/libebook-1.2.pc. Does anyone know what’s the proper way to get the same toolchain as the daily builder? Jul 13 17:33:16 anyone have problem with PARALLEL_MAKE = "-j 4" in local.conf ? Jul 13 17:34:02 cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese Jul 13 17:35:07 "iPhone 3G. I haven't eaten in days." Jul 13 17:35:26 What? Jul 13 17:35:45 Nullpuppy's link, about 10 minutes ago Jul 13 17:36:08 :) Jul 13 17:36:22 funny :) Jul 13 17:37:14 is it posible install openoffice ? Jul 13 17:37:33 /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr is not 0. This will cause problems with qemu so please fix the value (as root). Jul 13 17:39:40 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * ra412046669db 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/abstract/mediator.py: ogsmd: org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.RetrieveMessagebook: validate parameters Jul 13 17:39:40 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r93379e0819e1 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/ (channel.py parser.py): Jul 13 17:39:40 freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: ok, so my basic low-level parser is out of its depth now that we want to deal with Jul 13 17:39:42 freesmartphone.org: multiline unsolicited responses (+CBM and friends)... So, here's an experimental state-based Jul 13 17:39:42 Haha sweet, this had mercury cells in it Jul 13 17:39:45 mira: on the Freerunner? wouldn't count on it Jul 13 17:39:45 freesmartphone.org: parser for lowlevel AT parsing. Disable by default until I have more time to test. Jul 13 17:39:47 freesmartphone.org: Until then, +CBM will not be completed. Jul 13 17:39:49 mickeyl: I would really like some explanation on phonekit primitives by the way Jul 13 17:39:58 Ainulindale: then you need to ask thomas wood Jul 13 17:40:00 he did phonekit Jul 13 17:40:08 mickeyl: now, dialer manages to talk to frameworkd but exits when statuschanged is received Jul 13 17:40:25 And as I don't know what I'm supposed to give to StatusChanged... Jul 13 17:40:31 well, check the .xml file Jul 13 17:40:37 it needs to be in there, isn't it? Jul 13 17:40:47 since this is generated code, you can rely on the xml Jul 13 17:40:47 The expected arguments are there Jul 13 17:40:53 Not what there's supposed to be Jul 13 17:40:59 s/there's/they are/ Jul 13 17:41:00 Ainulindale meant: Not what they are supposed to be Jul 13 17:41:10 I know StatusChanged expects an integer Jul 13 17:41:14 But what's this integer, I don't know Jul 13 17:42:02 There's pretty much nothing on the wiki on that part Jul 13 17:42:17 yeah. phonekit was undocumented, that's one of the things i didn't like Jul 13 17:42:34 i'm afraid you need to check the code Jul 13 17:42:54 That's what I was doing right now :-/ Jul 13 17:43:10 good evening Jul 13 17:44:10 I'm afraid I have to ask this, since it might already have been asked. doesn't anyone find outrageous the wiki page about the "manual hackish GPS antena repair" ? Jul 13 17:45:31 outrageous??? Jul 13 17:46:09 * balrog-k1n will bbl Jul 13 17:46:12 Outrageous, not really. I'd rather have the option than to be forced to ship it back, Jul 13 17:46:14 MarcOChapeau: nope. Would be only if it was the official recommended way Jul 13 17:46:32 MarcOChapeau: instead, it looks like someone from the community trying to be helpful Jul 13 17:46:35 MarcOChapeau: it's what hacking is about :) Jul 13 17:46:39 what proportion of the phones have the GPS antenna issue? Jul 13 17:46:53 cesarb: well, this brings up a second question. Where is the official stuff ? Jul 13 17:46:55 does anyone know 1) how to report bugs in the Qtopia release and 2) if there are any repositories for additional Qtopia packages Jul 13 17:46:55 MarcOChapeau: someone who is good with hardware hacking Jul 13 17:47:09 y'a des gens des rmll ? Jul 13 17:47:12 Blarg Jul 13 17:47:21 MarcOChapeau: the official stuff probably will wait until they are sure that's the cause of the problem and have a plan to fix it Jul 13 17:47:26 comment ca blarg ?. Jul 13 17:47:31 heheh Jul 13 17:47:34 Wait - there's OFFICAL stuff? Jul 13 17:47:38 arf parle anglais :) Jul 13 17:48:11 ikerc__: what did you expect ? french ? Jul 13 17:48:15 not a chance... Jul 13 17:49:02 cesarb: I hope so. and I hope it's something that can be fixed by software. because there's no way we can all send back our devices for a hardware fix Jul 13 17:49:19 What about the GPS repair? Jul 13 17:49:38 Yeah I'm fairly certain one of mine has a fucked up connector Jul 13 17:49:44 not a chance .... why ? Jul 13 17:49:48 Which after initial use broke off or something Jul 13 17:49:58 It's strange :) Jul 13 17:50:03 where do I change date and time in OM? Jul 13 17:50:14 ikerc__: because we represent a ridiculous amount of the world population. face it ;-) Jul 13 17:50:24 MarcOChapeau: if it's a hardware problem, there's no way software can fix it Jul 13 17:50:33 Dave: tried looking at it? Jul 13 17:50:53 well, maybe we can buy a new "external" antenna and fit it inside the case in place of the current one Jul 13 17:50:59 cesarb: well, I know. but the previous discussions on the hardware list weren't that clear... Jul 13 17:51:03 exco - get a terminal and run ntpdate. Jul 13 17:51:05 that's probably $30-$50, as a worst-case Jul 13 17:51:14 there are instructions on the wiki for setting up timezones Jul 13 17:51:15 MarcOChapeau fuck off Jul 13 17:51:22 ikerc__: ? Jul 13 17:51:24 thx, ab0oo Jul 13 17:51:43 french maybe toglle the world up :) Jul 13 17:52:59 is gcc available on the neo yet ? Jul 13 17:53:24 awesomo4k: it is... but why would you compile on an ARM? Jul 13 17:53:52 well it seems to do everything else Jul 13 17:54:22 no french people issued of the RMLL at mont de marsan ? Jul 13 17:54:25 compiling on the actual ARM would take forever... cross-compile from a faster machine Jul 13 17:54:39 in juilly first to 6 ? Jul 13 17:54:43 pm plz Jul 13 17:55:06 yeah was just curious .. could be handy for small things here and there Jul 13 17:55:19 sitwon: but then, imagine the fun of being able to say "my phone can compile a program"! Jul 13 17:55:23 is there also a gui option for date time? Jul 13 17:55:43 awesomo4k: you probably would have to put it on the SD, as gcc is somewhat large... Jul 13 17:56:09 cesarb: so it's turing complete. awesome. So is just about every other piece of consumer electronics on the market today Jul 13 17:56:10 my first linux install was on a 486 dx2 66 in 1993 Jul 13 17:56:17 it had gcc Jul 13 17:57:00 cute Jul 13 17:57:42 awesomo4k: yeah, but it (a) probably had more free disk space than you have on the neo and (b) 1993's gcc was smaller Jul 13 17:58:46 well, microsd space is cheap Jul 13 17:59:10 at least I have way more capacity on my neo than on my 486/66 of old :] Jul 13 17:59:47 Epson Equity II w/ 20 mb ISA hard card Jul 13 18:00:05 ahoi Jul 13 18:00:10 Yo Jul 13 18:01:36 *refresh* Aww, still in San Pablo Jul 13 18:01:44 johncylee: Hi. At http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2008-May/002913.html you said that you would add opkg-cl to the toolchain, but it’s not in the toolchain I just installed, linked from the wiki package. Where can I find the current toolchain? Jul 13 18:02:55 why did you change to opkg? (the nice tab autocompletion doesn't work with that, right?) Jul 13 18:13:05 i'm curious about how to power down bluetooth, i sifted through some neod code, and it disables it by setting reset to 1, but does that power it down? Jul 13 18:15:08 feitingen: it wasn't reset, it was something else on the pcf sysfs tree Jul 13 18:15:33 feitingen: often placing a device "in reset" is equivalent to powering it off. dunno if that's the case here, though. Jul 13 18:15:38 feitingen: which cut the power to the bluetooth chipset (or enabled it back again) Jul 13 18:18:19 cesarb: there is a power_on there, but it doesnt seem to do anything Jul 13 18:18:44 my build is up to task 600 of 6989 ! Jul 13 18:20:15 awesomo4k: I've been sitting and watching over my fso build for few hours now. but I'm on a pentium. are you prepared to wait a month to get your image from your neo ? ;-) Jul 13 18:21:00 there's certainly a lot of dependencies i'm noticing Jul 13 18:21:09 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r4fd796e9f147 10/ (5 files in 2 dirs): add edje for contacts and a menu Jul 13 18:21:10 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * rff78ad069d18 10/ (10 files in 3 dirs): set the transition target in python and simplify page creation Jul 13 18:21:10 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r1a3db6b6a8be 10/data/images/ (button_contacts.png button_location.png): restore the old buttons Jul 13 18:22:27 WTF is CIA-42 always blathering about? Jul 13 18:22:33 WTF is CIA-42? Jul 13 18:22:41 feitingen: CIA-42 is a bot Jul 13 18:22:54 feitingen: it's showing the commits to some repository somewhere Jul 13 18:23:01 he's updating us about the status of his mother Jul 13 18:23:25 however recompiling this from scratch on my modern laptop is still probably faster than installing slackware 3.1 from floppies on a 486 Jul 13 18:23:35 haha Jul 13 18:23:40 Ouch. Jul 13 18:25:45 is there a useable gps/maps package for neo yet ? Jul 13 18:26:00 awesomo4k: I'd say tangoGPS Jul 13 18:26:02 awesomo4k: tangogps Jul 13 18:26:09 mwester: on your website "erify that the new kernel has the correct support by checking that the file /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-pm-gsm.0/flowcontrol exists." you should add an "led" -> /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-pm-gsm.0/flowcontrolled Jul 13 18:26:17 or navit if you want routing Jul 13 18:26:28 though my few experiments with navit have generally ended in it crashing Jul 13 18:26:52 sweet. Jul 13 18:26:53 hmm, unfortunately the tangogps site seems to be down today Jul 13 18:26:59 this has all the maps included ? Jul 13 18:27:00 does the neo have a working gps chip? on my n810, the chip takes upwards of 10 minutes to lock Jul 13 18:27:02 navit is: http://www.navit-project.org/ Jul 13 18:27:11 awesomo4k: tango downloads map images from openstreetmap Jul 13 18:27:30 with navit you build your own binary map file from an openstreetmap file Jul 13 18:27:51 hmm.,.. i have gta01 hardware Jul 13 18:28:06 no wifi.. tago caches maps though right ? Jul 13 18:28:12 yeah Jul 13 18:28:23 you could download the images on a desktop pc if you wanted Jul 13 18:28:27 then just transfer them to the neo Jul 13 18:28:28 mickeyl: Hmmm, looking at the sources I saw that the UI for dialer2 is truly linked to phone-kit Jul 13 18:28:37 In fact all the screens for incoming/talking are in phone-kit Jul 13 18:30:20 another question... can i plug an external hard drive into the phone and linux will see it as normal ? Jul 13 18:31:37 summatusmentis: in my tests it's about the same and it needs quite good conditions Jul 13 18:31:55 vpv: :-/ ok Jul 13 18:33:37 awesomo4k: should work I think, though it'll need to be externally powered on the neo1973 (although I think pretty much all usb drives need external power anyway) Jul 13 18:34:23 cool. Jul 13 18:34:41 Will a typical powered USB hub work? Jul 13 18:35:31 I doubt it for a usb hard drive, they tend to require more than just 500mA Jul 13 18:35:48 even low powered laptop drives tend to be more power hungry than that I think Jul 13 18:36:05 Will the freerunner charge while in USB host mode? Jul 13 18:36:31 pass Jul 13 18:38:18 I doubt powered hubs also provide power to their host side. Jul 13 18:39:41 any news from lpotter? Jul 13 18:39:49 Lo-lan-do, they don't, of course Jul 13 18:39:59 Lo-lan-do: I believe you are correct - however, I also believe that power could be supplied to the host side with a little hacking. Jul 13 18:40:24 Which brings me back to my question - will the phone charge while in host mode? Jul 13 18:40:38 lpotter: hi, do you have some gifts for us?;-) Jul 13 18:41:08 rivalarrival, it could. I believe I saw once, search the lists, that the FR could perhaps be configured into host mode but without power output, and with charging. But I don't believe it was a definite statement, rather pondering on the possibility. Jul 13 18:41:19 recommend searching the lists yourself Jul 13 18:41:42 I'll do that. Jul 13 18:42:17 Elleo: you might be interested in http://www.macpower.com.tw/products/hdd2/clearlight/cl_400plus - it runs off USB power on just about every laptop (many) that I've tried it with. Jul 13 18:42:40 Stroller: neat Jul 13 18:43:15 yeah 2.5" drives often can work on usb power Jul 13 18:44:08 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r68b880fd5b6f 10/ (4 files in 2 dirs): make a generic GRID_BUTTON macro and and an location example Jul 13 18:44:24 anyone have recommendations for a foldable keyboard with a mini usb connector? Jul 13 18:44:28 hahaha Jul 13 18:44:41 NTHGHTHDGDCRTDTRK Jul 13 18:49:48 Elleo - i've been looking for a foldable bluetooth kb Jul 13 18:50:31 yeah, I wondered about a bluetooth one, but I'd like to keep battery usage to a minimum Jul 13 18:50:43 plus they tend to be more expensive Jul 13 18:51:04 and i'm not sure if there's crypto w/bluetooth either Jul 13 18:51:34 Ainulindale: yeah, that's bad ("no") separation of UI and logic Jul 13 18:52:49 mickeyl: so I guess the wrapper thingie is dead then Jul 13 18:52:57 We were wondering with MarcOChapeau about that Jul 13 18:53:18 We were thinking about separating the UI and phone-kit logic, then remapping the logic to frameworkd Jul 13 18:53:22 While still using the UI Jul 13 18:53:46 By the way, besides frameworkd (and possibly kernel), what are the differences between FSO and 2007.2 ? Jul 13 18:54:36 hardly any differences, besides fso now using e-wm and being an EFL UI. it used to use matchbox Jul 13 18:54:59 see images/fso-image. the underlying stuff is the same as 2007.2 Jul 13 18:55:07 more or less standard OE Jul 13 18:55:13 mickeyl: I'm on milestone 1 right now and it's still matchbox. did that change recently ? Jul 13 18:55:15 Can one switch to FSO with just opkg, or does one need a full re-flashing? Jul 13 18:55:37 Lo-lan-do: reflashing is probably simpler Jul 13 18:55:40 MarcOChapeau: yeah. FSO needs a keyboard, so we're trying to reuse raster's illume which contains an on screen keyboard Jul 13 18:55:57 MarcOChapeau: Maybe, but I'd like a way back :-) Jul 13 18:56:11 Lo-lan-do: hehe, reflash again :-p Jul 13 18:56:26 Also, I didn't find much doc on what exactly the NAND and NOR flashes were, nor how they interfere with the system. Jul 13 18:56:32 mickeyl: that good to know Jul 13 18:57:22 Also, since I haven't found a (proper) way to export my contacts, I'm not sure I want to reflash. Jul 13 18:57:54 I tried with the Python DBUS API, but I can't get the list of all contacts :-/ Jul 13 18:58:17 I can only export those whose UID I know, and of course I can't get a list of UIDs. Jul 13 18:58:25 I got my freerunner yesterday, played with it a little, charged it overnight, and now it seems dead and won't turn on. :( Jul 13 18:59:27 hold button for ages Jul 13 18:59:38 tessier: Happened to me a couple of times too. Remove battery and charge cable, then try again. Jul 13 19:01:13 Lo-lan-do: Did that. A few times. Jul 13 19:01:51 oop Jul 13 19:01:57 It worked that time. Weird. Jul 13 19:02:01 ssh alias again Jul 13 19:02:10 But only on the second button press after I removed the battery Jul 13 19:02:33 I'm not ssh'ing in. I'm just trying to get it to turn back on. It was off when I picked it up this morning. Jul 13 19:02:58 7http://www.isarapix.org/pix22/1215796631.png Jul 13 19:03:00 :) Jul 13 19:03:02 Today I get to look for a torx 6 screwdriver so I can see if my GPS antenna is broken. Jul 13 19:03:13 - the 7 at the beginning Jul 13 19:03:55 summatusmentis: Why is suse shorter? Jul 13 19:04:16 has to do with it being German Jul 13 19:04:25 and where's Debian? Jul 13 19:06:19 Chocky: no idea, I just found it Jul 13 19:06:40 also, this was not the channel I was intending to send that to :) Jul 13 19:07:22 well, it has a torx on it Jul 13 19:08:08 I wonder why I keep replacing the back cover. Jul 13 19:08:23 I've had to remove the battery like three times today. Jul 13 19:09:31 Lo-lan-do: i do it too, even if i know i have to remove it again, i hope i dont have to. its the closest thing i will come to religion Jul 13 19:12:23 "But maybe this time it won't crash!" Jul 13 19:15:41 hm, uBoot won't have it for booting Debian. settle with chroot for now Jul 13 19:17:01 mickeyl: what is the behaviour of frameworkd regarding the PIN code ? Jul 13 19:17:42 frameworkd does not imply behaviour Jul 13 19:17:49 you call SetAntennaPower(True) Jul 13 19:17:54 then you receive an ok Jul 13 19:17:58 or you receive an error Jul 13 19:18:07 So there's no way to give the pin code ? Jul 13 19:18:08 the error can contain details like SIM PIN required Jul 13 19:18:19 then you can send the PIN with SendAuthCode() Jul 13 19:18:25 Ok :-) Jul 13 19:18:53 I though a good start would be to modify the phone-kit UI to use the appropriate FSO functions Jul 13 19:19:01 *nod* Jul 13 19:19:06 i agree Jul 13 19:19:15 phone-kit being the thing in OM2007.2? Jul 13 19:19:33 yep Jul 13 19:20:02 (I'm still new here, hope you'll forgive my newbie questions) Jul 13 19:20:30 hum, i get cme error: 15 when i try to send my pin on some sim cards, does anyone know what it is? Jul 13 19:21:02 SIM wrong Jul 13 19:21:12 can mean your SIM is no longer allowed to join the network Jul 13 19:21:27 or you have exhausted all your auth code tries Jul 13 19:21:30 or it's physically broken Jul 13 19:21:48 bbl Jul 13 19:22:13 http://db.tidbits.com/article/9690 Jul 13 19:22:15 hum. Jul 13 19:29:42 evening :) Jul 13 19:29:49 are there updates on a new FSO milestone? Jul 13 19:33:23 should the current fso milestone1 image boot? Because if I try the moko can't seem to execute the init process :( Jul 13 19:33:40 is this a known problem or am I encountering something new here? Jul 13 19:35:28 it works for me Jul 13 19:35:44 hmm thats strange Jul 13 19:36:13 do you mean the released milestone, or did you compile yourself? Jul 13 19:36:26 the released one. Jul 13 19:36:36 on a freerunner? Jul 13 19:36:42 to be specific this one: http://downloads.openmoko.org/framework/milestone1/Openmoko-fso-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080617-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 Jul 13 19:36:47 yes Jul 13 19:36:53 i think that's exactly the one i have Jul 13 19:37:05 did you flash it with dfu-util? Jul 13 19:37:19 and did you also flash the kernel that you can download at the same location? Jul 13 19:37:26 At the moment I am trying to boot it from sd card Jul 13 19:37:42 the kernel loads and finds its root Jul 13 19:37:45 mickey|sofa: any chance to get working gps (only /dev/ttySAC1, no gpsd or anything) on milestone2 of FSO? Jul 13 19:37:55 jakob__: i tried, but never got booting from SD card to work Jul 13 19:38:04 i think noone did, on a freerunner Jul 13 19:38:22 but after that it does not seem to be able to execute init Jul 13 19:38:51 ecraven: I have successfully booted the image the freerunner was shipped with from sd Jul 13 19:39:09 so I don't think the problem is the sd Jul 13 19:40:59 jakob__: you copied that image to flash, and overwrote the internal memory? Jul 13 19:41:11 how do you shutdown gsm from terminal? Jul 13 19:41:13 i have tried three days, then i gave up, because nothing worked ;( Jul 13 19:41:22 os on the 2nd partition of sd card, how can i tell this opkg? -d ?? Jul 13 19:41:38 Hi guys, I'm at the end of beta test for my website and looking for feedback from internet savvy people. mind if I post url please? Jul 13 19:42:28 ecraven: I dumped the mtdblock containing the rootfs to my laptop installed it in a mtdram device there. Mounted it and copied the data over to the sd card. After that I had to adapt the bootargs to use ext3 instead of ext2. But it wasn't this hard Jul 13 19:43:28 this is apparently what needs to be done with newer kernels: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/021524.html Jul 13 19:43:28 jakob__: i did all that, and tried with fso milestone 1 and with asu, neither worked. could you give me the menu_2 (or whatever it is for you) entry of your nand flash? Jul 13 19:43:43 sure just a second Jul 13 19:44:07 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * rf53a099b263d 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/ubx.py: ogpsd: Add all the remaining UBX IDs Jul 13 19:44:14 ok, I managed to compile most of openmoko-messages2, by adding some -dev packages to the toolchain. Now I get this error: Jul 13 19:44:23 also i only want one partition, no fat boot partition.. Jul 13 19:44:30 /usr/local/openmoko/arm/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/usr/lib/libjana-gtk.so: undefined reference to `gdk_event_request_motions' Jul 13 19:44:33 when linking everything Jul 13 19:44:58 ecraven: I don't think this is possible. Because the uboot can only read the kernel from fat Jul 13 19:45:17 ecraven: I have two partitions on the sd one fat and one ext3 Jul 13 19:45:20 strangely, /usr/lib/libjana-gtk.so.0 is the only file on my freerunner that seems to contain this symbol. Jul 13 19:46:08 jakob__: ah, that might be the reason Jul 13 19:46:26 why do want only one partition Jul 13 19:46:37 I don't see the problem in having two :) Jul 13 19:48:26 ecraven: http://nopaste.info/db3b64cd65.html Jul 13 19:49:46 jakob__: thanks, i'll try that tomorrow Jul 13 19:49:52 jakob__: i don't see a need for two ;) Jul 13 19:49:56 minimalism :-p Jul 13 19:50:03 ecraven: if you have got a working FSO image in your flash could you tar it with the "-p" option and upload it somewhere for me? Maybe this damn image I have got is just broken Jul 13 19:50:26 i don't have my phone here, will you be online tomorrow during the day, gmt? Jul 13 19:50:49 ecraven: yeah but uboot can only read the kernel from FAT and FAT as rootfs does not make a lot of sense :) Therefore there is a need for two partitions Jul 13 19:50:56 ecraven: yeah I think I will be here :) Jul 13 19:51:39 then we'll talk tomorrow, i'll upload it in the morning Jul 13 19:51:45 thanks :) Jul 13 19:51:53 jakob__: change uboot to read from ext2/3 ;) Jul 13 19:52:45 *g* that would be the preferred way. But who wants to implement an ext2 reader in uboot? ;) Jul 13 19:53:54 take one from grub ;) Jul 13 19:54:57 mickey|sofa: You talked about a SendAuthCode() method for frameworkd but I was wondering where it was Jul 13 19:55:06 Can't see it in ogsmd it sems Jul 13 19:55:07 +e Jul 13 19:56:48 right, this explains why uboot is getting upset at my Debian setup ;-) Jul 13 19:57:25 need to poke at uboot and get it to use the kernel in flash but boot from SD Jul 13 19:57:39 * balrog-k1n thought there was ext2 in u-boot? Jul 13 19:57:43 hm Jul 13 19:58:05 might be. grub does it, it's not super hard Jul 13 19:58:46 mickey|sofa: I said nothing. Just found it. Jul 13 19:59:31 Chocky: so that doesn't explain why u-boot is getting upset ;) Jul 13 19:59:35 aye Jul 13 20:00:03 * Chocky is trying to recall his past expertise with such things. takes a few days to get up to speed ;-) Jul 13 20:01:37 * Chocky pokes Dave Jul 13 20:24:50 hellos Jul 13 20:49:16 hello Jul 13 20:49:52 i Jul 13 20:49:55 hi* Jul 13 20:50:01 I quit, ignore me Jul 13 20:52:47 why is my moko build compiling libxinerama isn't that for multiple monitors or something ? Jul 13 21:01:10 how do i enable the display of the X mouse pointer Jul 13 21:14:06 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * r2b735470915e 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/parser.py: Jul 13 21:14:06 freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: fix SimpleLowlevelAtParser to wrap a unsolicited response line in a list Jul 13 21:14:06 freesmartphone.org: This makes it compatible to StateBasedLowlevelAtParser Jul 13 21:15:42 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r1a6a05c50529 10/src/zhone: implement dialing from contacts Jul 13 21:21:27 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r579c0fcf7cd7 10/src/zhone: fix fake dialer Jul 13 22:13:40 * emacsen waits with baited breathe for lpotter's new qtopia image (which he said he'd release tonight :) ) Jul 13 22:14:12 what is the current version of U-boot? Jul 13 22:26:48 ~SHR Jul 13 22:26:48 i guess shr is Stable Hybrid Release, a combination of the FSO, some of the 2007.2 GTK software, and the ASU that provides all of the functionality of the 2007.2 software, but with the stability of the FSO. See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Stable_Hybrid_Release Jul 13 22:28:27 emacsen: do you think one will be able to install qtopia on microSD? Jul 13 22:44:04 edistar, no idea. doesn't matter much to me Jul 13 22:46:52 edistar: I've had a slightly old version of qtopia booting from an sd card on my htc universal happily enough, so I'd assume doing the same from a microsd wouldn't be problematic Jul 13 22:48:18 Elleo: super, thanks Jul 13 22:48:24 no problem Jul 13 22:49:00 it's not blazingly fast, but I think most of that's due to the low memory on the universal since 2007.02 runs quite nicely from an sd Jul 13 22:51:16 are there some sales figures of freerunner? like, how many were sold? Jul 13 22:51:26 Elleo: the shared bus will also be slightly uncomfortable.. Jul 13 22:51:31 rgl: no, not yet Jul 13 22:52:03 when will the qtopia images be ready? Jul 13 22:53:22 hi, area anybody here? do you can help me? is about NVidia drivers Jul 13 22:53:41 idoleo: I didn't know the FR hat an nvidia driver.. Jul 13 22:54:39 ok,thanks Jul 13 22:55:06 idoleo: you probably want to try the irc channel for your distribution Jul 13 22:55:12 they're more likely to be able to help you Jul 13 22:55:13 idoleo: but otherwise, what's the problem? Jul 13 22:56:33 Hello Jul 13 22:58:22 i new in this page, but my problem is with NVidia drivers for 8500GT card Jul 13 22:59:53 i have FSX and i bought a aircraft addon; the textures are failing and i believe that the problem is the NVIdia´s drivers Jul 13 23:00:48 rgl: Out of curiosity, why are you interested in sales numbers? Jul 13 23:01:08 idoleo: I think your distro # would help you more there Jul 13 23:01:27 bricode, /me is curiouse(?) Jul 13 23:01:42 rgl: fair enough. Jul 13 23:01:49 ok, thanks for your help, good day! Jul 13 23:01:50 bricode, I want to known how much a "geek" phone is spreading hehe Jul 13 23:02:13 rgl: it's spreading. Jul 13 23:03:14 bricode, don't get me worn with that "geek" thing, I think openmoko is setting a mark on mobile history *G* Jul 13 23:03:37 * rgl has to got one *G* Jul 13 23:03:45 err to get *G* Jul 13 23:04:31 can anyone tell me how to configure the usb to be storage when i hook it up, rather than network? Jul 13 23:04:41 rgl: I would agree. But if you want to be famous, you should be careful of what you want to be famous for... Jul 13 23:05:16 bricode, I don't want fame hehe Jul 13 23:05:32 rgl: No I meant the Openmoko project. Jul 13 23:06:32 bricode, ah, but I think it's got that fame right now, don't you agree? I mean, the software does not seem to there yet, so mere mortals can't use it yet, I guess *G* Jul 13 23:06:52 dantalizing: you could install samba on the neo and export shares via usb Jul 13 23:07:14 rgl: I would say it's currently on the cusp. Could go famous, or could fade over time. Jul 13 23:07:36 * Chocky takes forver to update Debian on FR :| Jul 13 23:07:39 rgl: Working software will be a huge requirement for the general public. Jul 13 23:07:53 don't have enough space to download all the updates. gotta be done piecemeal Jul 13 23:08:00 Chocky: it's debian! on a 400mhz, super slow flash! what do you expect? Jul 13 23:08:13 edit: main problem is space Jul 13 23:08:16 Chocky: get an 8gb card, then it's fun Jul 13 23:08:24 * Chocky has already deleted lots of unneeded stuff Jul 13 23:08:36 Chocky, did you disable atime? Jul 13 23:08:37 yeah, those gigabits ;-) Jul 13 23:08:45 ahem, er, no ;-) Jul 13 23:08:49 * Chocky goes and does so Jul 13 23:09:02 * Chocky so embarassed Jul 13 23:09:03 edistar: so by default i cant set up to just connect to a computer and then drag & drop files to the sd? Jul 13 23:09:09 bricode, if it doesn't hurry up, I'm affraid of latter :/ Jul 13 23:09:44 rgl: I'd agree. Projects like this require critical mass to sustain it. Jul 13 23:09:55 I think it has that mass already Jul 13 23:10:00 but it will take time no matter what Jul 13 23:10:10 dantalizing: not yet Jul 13 23:10:15 bricode, I think android is set to be freed this year; but I'm affraid it doesn't run out of the box in OM Jul 13 23:10:23 or at least it will this week, once deliveries complete Jul 13 23:10:27 edistar: thx Jul 13 23:10:33 rgl: a company is working on porting android to the FR Jul 13 23:10:39 rgl: It will be interesting to see how that plays out. Jul 13 23:11:06 edistar, cool :D Jul 13 23:11:27 Chocky: Yeah, it's a chicken and egg problem. Need enough developers with hardware to develop. Costs money to develop/manufacture the hardware initially. Jul 13 23:11:51 yes, but they're shipping now. hard part is done. Jul 13 23:11:53 bricode, indeed. :D Jul 13 23:12:21 * Chocky still very dubious about Andriod in terms of freeness Jul 13 23:12:28 edistar, which company? Jul 13 23:12:48 Chocky: The hard part is actually adoption by a larger audience than technophiles. Jul 13 23:12:56 anyway, OpenMoko's stuff is here now. Android isn't. Jul 13 23:13:09 Chocky, I think everyone will be very disapointed with them if its some sort of not quite open as they make it *G* Jul 13 23:13:24 same with that Linux phone wotsit. that's stupid closed Jul 13 23:13:26 shoragan: can't remember.. Jul 13 23:13:35 shoragan: W.E. or so Jul 13 23:13:48 Chocky: motorola Jul 13 23:13:50 shoragan: Koolu / WorksEverywhere. Jul 13 23:13:54 edistar, they would need to have access to the source, the current binaries are not compatible with the neo's cpu Jul 13 23:14:25 android was already quite disappointing with not having anything really innovative ui-wise Jul 13 23:14:46 not sayign that openmoko isn't disappoing in various ways :p Jul 13 23:15:08 yes, but not in any way that hasn't been shown to be fixable in the past Jul 13 23:15:20 shoragan: yes, there was someone from that company in this channel yesterday Jul 13 23:16:05 most of the cpu incompatibilities have been worked around already Jul 13 23:16:17 In the essence of full disclosure, I am affiliated with Koolu. Jul 13 23:18:43 bricode, so you already have access to android source code? Jul 13 23:19:03 rgl: I can't comment on that. Jul 13 23:19:46 bricode, if the koolu about page is correct, you have *G* Jul 13 23:20:08 I'm waiting for the 3rd contender... Jul 13 23:20:31 the FR has that virtual keyboard led thing? like show in http://koolu.com/About/About-Koolu.html ? that seems a footage, but... Jul 13 23:20:31 the way i see it right now, is that even if google releases all the android source, it doesn't fit with the normal gnu/linux userspace Jul 13 23:20:55 they have used just the kernel and written their own userspace in java/dalvik Jul 13 23:21:08 cdm, any ideia who? Jul 13 23:21:15 rgl: yes. :) Jul 13 23:21:25 rgl, that virtual keyboard is not real ;) Jul 13 23:21:32 cdm, spread the fud ;-) Jul 13 23:21:34 shoragan, indeed, it's primarily a vm system that happens to use the linux kernel Jul 13 23:21:45 rgl: nope. Not yet. Jul 13 23:21:51 bricode: You look like the geek from Oceans {11|12|13} Jul 13 23:21:58 although it shouldn't be hard to figure out who I mean. Jul 13 23:21:59 rivalarrival: Thanks. Jul 13 23:22:42 shoragan: Actually, the concept can be found here: http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/8193/ it works under Linux. Jul 13 23:23:16 rgl: That image is an illustration of a future vision. Jul 13 23:23:20 cdm, qnx? *G* Jul 13 23:23:41 bricode, yes i know the concept, it's just that there is *no* space left in the FR case Jul 13 23:23:45 ;) Jul 13 23:23:58 shoragan: That is quite true. Jul 13 23:24:05 rgl: no. Jul 13 23:24:13 balrog-k1n, can i read about the workarounds somewhere? Jul 13 23:24:14 Need bigger case... Expansion back? Jul 13 23:24:23 rgl: Although there was a time that was possible. But then I left. Jul 13 23:24:33 shoragan: yep, at http://benno.id.au/blog/2007/11/21/android-neo1973 Jul 13 23:25:36 bbiab Jul 13 23:26:02 balrog-k1n, i read that article some time ago, and it seem like it was practically a dead end Jul 13 23:26:06 dantalizing: you might be able to get it to behave as a usb mass storage device by using the g_file_storage driver, but it probably wouldn't be trivial to get working Jul 13 23:26:40 shoragan: there is exactly one armv5 instruction that the author of that text couldn't work around, i think (but haven't tried) it would be possible to replace this instruction with a dummy arm breakpoint in the decompressed binaries and implement the instruction in the kernel Jul 13 23:27:00 ~logs Jul 13 23:27:02 i guess logs is apt/ibot/infobot/jbot/purl all log daily to http://ibot.rikers.org// where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/.html.gz Jul 13 23:27:12 hi there, sorry for my lame question but : is there an easy way/howto for putting the latest snapshot in the micro sd card for testing it in "live" ? (without breaking anything) Jul 13 23:27:40 shoragan: i assume that their vm doesn't generate code on the fly like java JIT does, or that if it does that then it doesn't use the blx insns Jul 13 23:27:46 balrog-k1n, interesting, that should work (but is probably not easy to do) Jul 13 23:28:07 balrog-k1n: I thought it had more to do with the inlined 16-bit thumb instructions that couldn't be converted from the ARMv5 to ARMv4 thumb extensions... Jul 13 23:28:12 ayeuu: of course, uboot already has boot from sd and you just need to copy the rootfs to the card Jul 13 23:28:58 ok, thx a lot; i have to format the sd to ext3 or something like that ? Jul 13 23:28:58 ayeuu: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD Jul 13 23:29:00 bricode: iirc the thumb mode in armv5 has only the same additions as non-thumb, since armv4 Jul 13 23:29:03 thx :) Jul 13 23:29:06 ayeuu: ext3, yes Jul 13 23:30:32 How's it coming, Chocky? Jul 13 23:30:55 balrog-k1n: Ah. It's how the processor jumps back from thumb mode that's different. Jul 13 23:31:48 bricode: oh, yeah, reading it again now :p Jul 13 23:32:04 bricode: so the bx instruction would need to be replaced with a trap Jul 13 23:33:11 oops, nope, the pop instruction :p Jul 13 23:36:08 balrog-k1n: At the very least. If it's even possible to jump back to the proper ARM code location. Jul 13 23:36:36 Dave: slow, muh. got distracted by using my neighbor's Ripstik Jul 13 23:37:03 * bricode 's FR just crashed. Jul 13 23:37:13 took your time ;-) Jul 13 23:38:05 another idea is to trap jumps to a bogus address, which linux doesn't do currently, currently it can only trap (and emulate) undefined instruction, but in theory you can trap code prefetch aborts Jul 13 23:39:32 does anyone know if bluez-audio will be/is ported to the freerunner? Jul 13 23:39:39 It's there. Jul 13 23:39:41 AIUI Jul 13 23:39:49 It's just not properly setup Jul 13 23:40:44 i tired to set it up as i did on my laptop, but mplayer complains about /usr/lib/alsa-lib/libasound_module_pcm_bluetooth.so being non-existing Jul 13 23:40:45 Pu-238 - also keeps your head warm. Jul 13 23:41:17 google says it is usually part of bluez-audio or bluez-utils-alsa Jul 13 23:42:39 Is it possible to setup wlan with the original Freerunner image? I get several errors: "ioctl[PRISM2_IOCTL_HOSTAPD]: Operation not supported" and "Failed to set encryption." Jul 13 23:42:48 no Jul 13 23:42:54 you need to update the kernel at the least Jul 13 23:44:20 the wiki kernel page doesn't mentions prebuild images for gta02, are there some? Jul 13 23:44:29 quickdev: yes Jul 13 23:44:38 quickdev: I don't off-hand know where. Jul 13 23:47:09 would be fine to know ;) Jul 13 23:48:52 ah, found it on the buildhost Jul 13 23:57:08 Greetings, Speedy :) Jul 13 23:58:06 :) Jul 13 23:59:14 evenin'. Jul 13 23:59:39 * cjb is getting excited about prerendering map tiles for MA on his freerunner and not getting lost on his bike so much.. Jul 14 00:00:00 (probably have to fix up GPS somehow first, though, gah.) Jul 14 00:01:37 cjb: tangogps not work for you? Jul 14 00:02:00 SpeedEvil, gps didn't work for me, too Jul 14 00:02:17 quickdev: :( Jul 14 00:02:18 SpeedEvil: ah, I don't have the FR yet :) Jul 14 00:02:23 should be here in two days. Jul 14 00:02:26 I was able to get TangoGPS working today. Jul 14 00:02:34 quickdev: I would offer to solder it for you. Jul 14 00:02:34 neat. reliably? Jul 14 00:02:35 quickdev: but... Jul 14 00:03:00 but? ;) Jul 14 00:03:08 cjb: Depends on how you define reliably. It locked on to the satellites, but didn't seem stable.It kept thinking it was moving around but was stationary. Jul 14 00:03:12 quickdev: you're probably not anywhere near me Jul 14 00:03:14 i got tangogps working perfectly with an external bluetooth gps Jul 14 00:03:28 SpeedEvil, where are you? ;) Jul 14 00:03:44 UK Jul 14 00:03:48 bricode: Interesting. Jul 14 00:03:50 Fife, scotland. Jul 14 00:04:05 bricode: I wonder how plausible replacing the internal antenna with an "external" antenna inside the case is. Jul 14 00:04:05 hehe, islander, I'm from germany Jul 14 00:04:16 SpeedEvil, does GPS require a recent kernel? Jul 14 00:04:16 cjb: pointless Jul 14 00:04:25 quickdev: no Jul 14 00:04:26 cjb: Yeah. Seems like the coordinates needed a low-pass filter on the data. Jul 14 00:04:29 cjb: it's a simple resolder job Jul 14 00:04:42 SpeedEvil: that's not really proven yet Jul 14 00:04:54 SpeedEvil: but sounds worth trying that first. Jul 14 00:04:59 SpeedEvil: For me, no resolder job is simple. Jul 14 00:05:00 SpeedEvil, the agps-ui didn't show any signal at all Jul 14 00:05:46 doesn't openmoko offer to do the soldering for defect devices? :) Jul 14 00:06:14 I guess so. Jul 14 00:06:19 yeah, presumably some people will be returning their phones. Jul 14 00:06:26 That's not beenconfirmed yet though. Jul 14 00:06:39 Sounds like an expensive endeavor. Jul 14 00:06:41 yeah, we'll see - SpeedEvil, did you resolder yours? Jul 14 00:06:43 It may be they're happy to let people solder on it themselves, and then fix any screwups. Jul 14 00:06:50 quickdev: I don't have a FR Jul 14 00:07:08 but you ordered one? Jul 14 00:07:28 i tried my gps out for the first time today Jul 14 00:07:30 I lack the cash at the moent. Jul 14 00:07:37 had to walk about a mile... started it Jul 14 00:07:49 6 minutes it, it got 1 sat Jul 14 00:07:55 I'm on a small disability allowance, and spent the small amount I had saved on roof repairs. Jul 14 00:08:15 exactly 700 seconds in it got a lock on 4 sats... which then increased to 9, and maintained even as i walked under bridges Jul 14 00:08:41 ieatlint: How do you tell how many sats? Jul 14 00:08:45 SpeedEvil: ouch, that's no fun. Jul 14 00:08:53 cjb: no. Jul 14 00:08:59 bricode, the openmoko-agpsui tells you Jul 14 00:09:12 ah, not good. Jul 14 00:09:16 ieatlint: Ah. Jul 14 00:09:44 i re-ran the gps when i got onto a train... it could only see one satellite in 40 minutes of trying... but we were going fast Jul 14 00:10:05 definitely subpar in getting a fix, average once it has one Jul 14 00:10:20 ieatlint: soe trains have GPS resistant windows. Jul 14 00:11:08 this one doesn't ... i've a bluetooth gps reciever i used with my old phone Jul 14 00:11:10 it had no problems Jul 14 00:11:31 I wonder if there are some issues with partially broken GPSs Jul 14 00:11:47 It'd be good if people'd post the signal levels they get Jul 14 00:11:56 Under known connditions perhaps. Jul 14 00:12:17 i took a screenshot when i first got lock, actually... shows the levels Jul 14 00:20:02 this is me walking down a street lined with trees, homes, and small businesses: http://tehinterweb.com/freerunner/gps-signal-strength.png Jul 14 00:20:11 not too bad, really Jul 14 00:21:07 i should pair my bluetooth gps to the freerunner and run the two gps receivers in parallel Jul 14 00:21:29 I mean - it'd be good to have a nice set of values. Jul 14 00:22:00 ieatlint: i think they will show the same, but the bluetooth one will probably draw less power Jul 14 00:22:10 If 90% are at '10' and work well, 5% are at 5, and mostly work, and 5% are at 3 or below, and don't work at all really, youwant to fi the 10%, not the 5% Jul 14 00:24:16 Have you tried a "Cold reset" from the "run" menu? That's seemed to help for me. Jul 14 00:26:38 ieatlint: You're lucky. I don't have a fix. Jul 14 00:28:29 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r3173ea628bb1 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/ (gpschannel.py ubx.py): ogpsd: Add more message formats, allow sending of messages Jul 14 00:30:24 I'd think that the bluetooth radio would draw more power than the GPS... I should look into that... Jul 14 00:30:46 I think it's similar. Jul 14 00:31:03 well, i dunno, but bringing a bluetooth receiver with me isn't always fun Jul 14 00:31:25 although it is nicer for some things, since i can stash it where it gets signal and use my device elsewhere Jul 14 00:31:52 avr: ah Jul 14 00:33:08 does the gps receiver use more power when it is trying to get a fix than when it has one? Jul 14 00:34:02 No, it's not all that convenient..., but I figured that the receive-only GPS module would probably use less power than the bluetooth transceiver... But I guess I'm forgetting that the GPS has some kind of processing onboard... Jul 14 00:34:46 hum, I've got a kernel panic when booting from the SD, with "VFS: cannot open root device "mmcblk0p2" or unknown-block(179,2)" with my FR, can anyone help me please ? Jul 14 00:35:38 I've downloaded a rootfs (openmoko-devel-image-om-gta02.jffs2), made 2 partition like uboot says (1st in dos for the image, 2nd in ext2 with rootfs) Jul 14 00:48:32 ayeuu: check the irc logs for the last couple of days - others have had that same problem but I don't know what the solution was Jul 14 00:49:06 I haven't got the logs of it Jul 14 00:49:12 !logs Jul 14 00:49:13 Channel logs for #openmoko are archived at: Jul 14 00:49:13 http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/%23openmoko Jul 14 00:49:14 Live-logs are available at Jul 14 00:49:16 :) Jul 14 00:49:16 http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/livelogs/%23openmoko.livelog Jul 14 00:49:18 thx Jul 14 00:49:18 See ?? help-logs for usage instructions Jul 14 01:14:55 how do i make a new kernel image with mokomakefile? Jul 14 01:14:58 rwhitby: ping? Jul 14 01:16:36 hum, I haven't found any solution about the kernel panic :/ Jul 14 01:17:55 ferric: it'll make it when you do make openmoko-devel-image - or any of the targets Jul 14 01:18:26 SpeedEvil: thanks. Jul 14 01:28:38 Hello ferric :) Jul 14 01:34:49 has anybody started work on an accelerometer-based rolling ball game? Jul 14 01:36:15 Don't think so :P Jul 14 01:37:00 there's an open source one for palmos Jul 14 01:37:05 think top priority is the driver first and X11 integration Jul 14 01:37:26 haha, clearly :p Jul 14 01:37:36 i belive neither of those exist yet Jul 14 01:37:47 the accelerometer driver doesn't exist? Jul 14 01:38:01 sure you can prolly cat the /dev/input/event2-3 but... Jul 14 01:38:03 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Accelerometer_data_retrieval makes it look like it does Jul 14 01:38:14 ah, but there's no neat library yet? Jul 14 01:38:43 a input daemon Jul 14 01:38:52 hah! Jul 14 01:38:54 Correct. Jul 14 01:39:08 http://www.harbaum.org/till/palm/mulg/index.html Jul 14 01:39:11 ^^ palm one Jul 14 01:39:11 calibrator Jul 14 01:39:21 does the palm have accels? Jul 14 01:39:39 no there was a hardware hack for the serial port Jul 14 01:40:29 hmm should be much better with a builtin one :) Jul 14 01:41:07 is there any info on how to access the 3d acceleration? Jul 14 01:45:14 glamogood question Jul 14 01:46:21 I really want to make a neat tilt maze game, but I don't wanna do it without access to 2d/3d acceleration Jul 14 01:46:45 I'd rather spend my time on fun stuff than optimizing blits :P Jul 14 01:46:56 oh you know whatd be cool Jul 14 01:47:15 that old boardgame labrinth Jul 14 01:47:22 with the marble Jul 14 01:47:29 yeah that's exactly what I'm talking about Jul 14 01:47:30 hah Jul 14 01:47:42 thats awesome Jul 14 01:47:47 you'd tilt the phone to tilt the board Jul 14 01:47:55 i have seen this one on some phone Jul 14 01:48:22 although it used the camera instead of accelerometers, to know when you tilted the phone Jul 14 01:48:33 wow, sounds compute intensive Jul 14 01:48:41 :D Jul 14 01:48:45 yeah, but it kind of worked Jul 14 01:49:12 that's cool Jul 14 01:49:23 it should be quite playable with the accels on the FR hopefully Jul 14 01:49:32 http://www.otherlandtoys.co.uk/labyrinth500.jpg Jul 14 01:49:53 nice Jul 14 01:50:37 i'd stick to 2d first then build from that Jul 14 01:50:38 personally i think it's a bit a waste of time ;) Jul 14 01:50:52 especially that the game isn't much fun Jul 14 01:50:57 When can I play Wolf3D? Jul 14 01:51:11 As soon as you port it :) Jul 14 01:52:01 Ah, come on. I don't want to work on it, I just want to use it! With my iPhone, I could just use it and it worked! Jul 14 01:52:19 * rivalarrival stops acting like a spoiled iBrat. Jul 14 01:52:36 i thought you were serious untill i read your /nick Jul 14 01:54:24 Nah, I'll help where I can. But I'm more than a bit noobish. Jul 14 01:55:12 Damnit! Jul 14 01:55:21 does the axis meter need an input/deamon or just an x11 dpad type "driver" that can read their data and interpret it as directions Jul 14 01:56:03 i'm sure there has to be something like that already in X11 right? this cant be the first X11 accellerometer implementation can it? Jul 14 01:56:28 I don't understand what accelerometers have to do with X Jul 14 01:56:37 walrustown: it's an input device Jul 14 01:56:46 i see Jul 14 01:56:59 LoRez: and get condensation on the back of the books. Jul 14 01:57:00 oops Jul 14 01:57:01 walrustown: i think they want to use it to move the cursor Jul 14 01:57:09 i'm not sure how clicking is going to work :p Jul 14 01:57:11 like when you have to edit xorg.conf for input driver=imps2 Jul 14 01:57:21 ok that makes sense then Jul 14 01:58:18 steal some source from the X11 wii mote driver Jul 14 01:58:56 http://www.resplect.com/xwii/downloads.php Jul 14 01:59:15 kd8ikt: wouldn't it work with the standard driver? Jul 14 01:59:30 (although admittedly useless) Jul 14 01:59:59 the accelerometer is just an input device, indistinguishable from mouse for X11 Jul 14 02:00:08 except it can't click :p Jul 14 02:00:31 x,y,z Jul 14 02:00:46 ah Jul 14 02:01:08 mouse is just x,y + buttons Jul 14 02:01:26 still the evdev driver should read those x,y fine Jul 14 02:01:41 it has nothing to do with the z anyway Jul 14 02:02:27 I used the wiimote setup like that... It was a royal PITA to try to use. Jul 14 02:02:47 i'm sure i'll have a better outlook fri when i get my moko and can really fart with it Jul 14 02:03:03 Haha, mine comes Thursday. Jul 14 02:03:16 where you live? Jul 14 02:03:17 mine's here tomorrow mwahahaha Jul 14 02:03:37 walrustown: Bastard. kd8ikt: Akron. Jul 14 02:03:41 mine is here since december mwahaha Jul 14 02:04:12 is that a 1973? Jul 14 02:04:26 i'm getting mine with these guys rivalarrival http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales#Kentucky Jul 14 02:04:35 mice do have y-axis... scrolling Jul 14 02:04:39 it gets shipped thur Jul 14 02:04:39 gta02a3 (with the glamo interrupts hw bug) Jul 14 02:04:43 i love scrolly mouse Jul 14 02:05:21 but i'm gonna drive down to lexington ky fri from cinci to pick it up/pay him Jul 14 02:05:39 prolly hang out awhile aswell Jul 14 02:05:45 glamo? Jul 14 02:05:51 the 3dfx chip Jul 14 02:06:05 2d+3d Jul 14 02:06:20 ahh Jul 14 02:06:36 I thought it was S Media or something Jul 14 02:06:37 2d+3d+mmc/sd+dsp+mp3+mpeg+more ;) Jul 14 02:06:52 mine arrives thursday:) Jul 14 02:06:59 and it had to be on a crappy SDIO bus :P Jul 14 02:07:30 that is kinda lame Jul 14 02:07:32 Yay! T-mobile gave me a new spare phone. Samsung "Beat" for $19.22 Jul 14 02:08:10 heh i was reading through some cell java app the other day Jul 14 02:08:17 apps* Jul 14 02:08:32 yeah? Jul 14 02:08:39 saw a lot of funny female apps Jul 14 02:08:50 mygirls? Jul 14 02:08:55 is tmobile the 1 to use? Jul 14 02:09:08 ovulation calender, vibrator Jul 14 02:09:24 Vibrator. Nice. Jul 14 02:09:24 woot Jul 14 02:09:49 like pulse, randomly vibz, or steady Jul 14 02:09:53 heh Jul 14 02:09:59 i thought that was damn funny Jul 14 02:10:00 linuxxr: I've had tmobile for about 6 years now... they treat me fairly decently, can switch plans anytime... Jul 14 02:10:35 does anyone who uses or has used AT&T know the difference between the Media Net packages and the smartphone data packages? Jul 14 02:11:10 id reeeeealy like to grt rid of att Jul 14 02:11:25 the Media Net is much cheaper and can work without a long-term contract, but the AT&T reps can't tell me the technical differences Jul 14 02:11:31 cingular whoever they are Jul 14 02:12:10 specifically, i want to know if MediaNet is proxied, filtered, or if the only limiting agent is the physical phone Jul 14 02:12:20 linuxxr: I can't tell you much about t-mobile's data plans... It looked like they had an unlimited plan for $20/month... Jul 14 02:12:44 that was gonna be me next ? Jul 14 02:12:51 linuxxr: i am not too happy w/ choosing AT&T either, but they are the only carrier that has coverage where I live and where my parents live Jul 14 02:12:58 plan type do u have Jul 14 02:13:23 rival Jul 14 02:13:47 I have no data plan right now. I'm using a basic family plan, but I'm thinking about switching to their myfaves plan - free calling to 5 people, any network. Jul 14 02:14:02 :P Jul 14 02:14:03 an data? Jul 14 02:14:18 or u just gonna wifi Jul 14 02:14:25 Not included, looks like $20/mo Jul 14 02:14:33 y cool Jul 14 02:15:27 I've got unlimited SMS on both lines for $10. Jul 14 02:15:29 if your at a wifi mostly proly the data plan would be mostly useless? Jul 14 02:15:45 at&t does seem to have the best GSM coverage in the US Jul 14 02:15:55 Probably. I'm never at a wifi, though. Jul 14 02:16:05 * sitwon has T-Mobile becaue when he went to the mall it was the first booth he hit Jul 14 02:16:35 the map indicates that but i though that t mobile could mirror there coverage ,,is that correct? Jul 14 02:16:36 Their tech support is worthless, but their customer care staff is OK. Jul 14 02:17:44 I don't know about mirroring coverage... They all seem to expand their networks in the same areas within a few months of eachother. Jul 14 02:17:51 I plan to test both... I doubt either will beat Verizon's coverage in my area *sigh* Jul 14 02:18:12 but verizon is evil Jul 14 02:18:28 kd8ikt: so? Jul 14 02:18:35 they give me FiOS Jul 14 02:18:41 im disturbed with at&t over 25 bucks.. isn,t that petty Jul 14 02:18:50 All phone services are evil Jul 14 02:18:52 Tmobile covers the 7 counties where I work, except for a tiny section near the Ravenna ordnance plant on Route 5 in Ohio. Jul 14 02:19:05 Verizon just has annoying commercials. Jul 14 02:19:24 Now I will NEVER give a penny of mine to Alltel Jul 14 02:19:29 their coverage in arkansas looks thin Jul 14 02:19:34 Because their commercials are AWFUL Jul 14 02:19:36 Verizon hosed me because I was dumping their service at the same time they did a major overhaul on their billing system. Jul 14 02:20:00 Every time I see "Chad", I want to just... charge him a lot of money! Jul 14 02:20:06 Yeah, that'd show 'em! Jul 14 02:20:10 Verizon is a multi-headed hydra.... communication is so bad that even Verizon employees have trouble navagating the phone system to talk to the right people Jul 14 02:20:24 Didn't Verizon buy alltel? Jul 14 02:20:34 On the up side, when you do finally get the right person on the phone, they actually know what they're talking about and fix you up w/o breaking a sweat Jul 14 02:20:40 Well in that case, I hate Verizon too. Jul 14 02:20:46 verizon Jul 14 02:20:54 alltel Jul 14 02:20:56 as long as its not linux? Jul 14 02:21:16 linuxxr, I don't care what they use, I hate them! Jul 14 02:21:29 i guess thats proly getting better Jul 14 02:21:33 Microsoft uses Linux, and I think most of us here have them on our badlist. Jul 14 02:21:53 yup its always the LOND road Jul 14 02:21:59 long Jul 14 02:22:05 the Verizon techs (even the cable-jockies) that I've met have been pretty Linux-friendly Jul 14 02:22:27 Yeah, Verizon bought alltel for 28.1 billion. Jul 14 02:22:42 oooo nos Jul 14 02:23:00 does someone have a boot with sd card please ? Jul 14 02:23:01 are it gsm Jul 14 02:23:06 CDMA Jul 14 02:23:07 (can boot) Jul 14 02:24:46 so is the basic system a debian or something in the freerunner? Jul 14 02:25:35 stripped suse? Jul 14 02:25:39 kd8ikt glamo is on a regular memory/io bus with ram and flash also there. not sdio. Jul 14 02:25:51 wifi is on the sole sdio port of the 2442 Jul 14 02:25:57 oh Jul 14 02:26:39 the point is just that for properly working data transfer quite some waitstates need to be done, else data corrupts on transfer Jul 14 02:27:22 in the end raster pulled 7mbyte peak out there (doing nothing else than pushing bits) which even impressed the glamo-people surprisingly *sigh* Jul 14 02:27:23 u know sUse linux started as slackware?:) Jul 14 02:28:36 kd8ikt to be fair, for using it a s a phone nobody will bother... it does not matter. Jul 14 02:28:48 :) Jul 14 02:30:14 cpu and ram io intenive stuff without graphics will even be faster due to 30mbyte/sec refresh now coming out of the 8mbyte internal gpu-ram instead of the shared main memory. Jul 14 02:30:43 anything has a pro and a con. even something which looks as fucked up as the glamo Jul 14 02:31:00 haha :P Jul 14 02:31:06 dave is openmoko a "NEW" distro or is it based on something like turbo linux or? Jul 14 02:31:07 Well said, roh Jul 14 02:31:35 a pro for example is the sd-card iface. people were searching for a cpu/memory bus to sdio hci but had a hard time finding something that simple Jul 14 02:33:13 if we leave glamo away something else needs to do that and it seems such stuff issnt that simple to get in the real world. one can buy some IP-core from a cpld manuf and just load it into one of their products.. or license the ip-core for use in a custom asic (which then usually also does various other stuff which comes up and needs custom handling) Jul 14 02:33:46 because the alternative of 'wifi XOR sdcard' isnt really one Jul 14 02:34:58 linuxxr openmoko is a distro as well as a company and a project ;) the distro is based on openembedded which is a meta-distro (a distro-toolkit basically) Jul 14 02:41:53 hello all. I just ordered a FreeRunner GSM 850. I'm excited about the GPS capabilities, but wondering whether I should get an external GPS antenna for when traveling in the car? Jul 14 02:42:41 thanks i guess u could of told me to google cool Jul 14 02:43:09 It may nnot work in some cars Jul 14 02:43:18 Due to window coatingsz Jul 14 02:43:33 As with all GPS Jul 14 02:43:44 SpeedEvil: does the freerunner have a regular gps antenna plug? Jul 14 02:43:48 yes Jul 14 02:43:51 mmc-x Jul 14 02:43:58 linuxxr i think thats implied when asking questions in open projects, but also i would find telling anybody to google as first communication quite... well.. unpersonal and depending on the cuulure one comes from offending Jul 14 02:44:10 SpeedEvil: thankf for the heads up on that shunt regulator Jul 14 02:44:42 SpeedEvil: thanks. Do you know if there is software to give turn by turn directions? Jul 14 02:44:55 No. Jul 14 02:45:27 I mean there isn't. Jul 14 02:46:19 hm.. doesnt navit do that? Jul 14 02:46:57 SpeedEvil: so the GPS can be used for getting location, tracking route, etc? Jul 14 02:47:08 http://navit.sourceforge.net/ does routing Jul 14 02:47:32 thanks roh. I can't wait for the phone to arrive! Jul 14 02:47:33 roh: well - yes - but... Jul 14 02:48:26 It's a sometimes OK functional routing program - not comparable to a 'normal' GPS device i most places. Jul 14 02:48:41 SpeedEvil i have to say i didnt use it yet, but there is there.. should work when you put in a bought map Jul 14 02:48:53 wouldnt expect osm stuff to do proper routing for now Jul 14 02:49:24 if I want to install extra programs like navit, should I plan on using 2 or 4 GB microSD card? Jul 14 02:49:37 also hey.. people should not believe anything that a computer says... people should use them as tool, not as brain-replacement. Jul 14 02:50:19 heh Jul 14 02:50:56 centering a map on 'here' on a buttonpress, and allow pan and zoom as well as address-search would be nice i think. like a assisted map-holder. but i can do routing myself quite well when i have a proper map with my position in Jul 14 02:51:15 roh: do you know what the relationship between DASH and OM is? Jul 14 02:53:12 not in detail. but i also think there is not much to know. OM built hw and a working linuxkernel to some stage, dash uses that, and put their custom app on it and sell the thing with some deal for the gprs-usage Jul 14 02:54:47 What I thought. Was just wondering if there might be a way to buy that app. Jul 14 02:56:26 roh SpeedEvil thanks guys. I'll probably be coming back in here soon. Jul 14 02:59:50 Is it Thursday yet? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jul 14 02:59:56 2008