**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 15 02:59:56 2008 Jul 15 02:59:58 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Howto_Test_Your_GPS_with_agpsui Jul 15 03:00:04 * ancient123 shakes his fist at his treo 650 ... I THOUGHT I WAS FINALLY RID OF YOU! Jul 15 03:00:08 It's an issue for a few - I'mnot really sure. Jul 15 03:00:14 ancient123: My GPS doesn't work. My AT&T SIM does. Jul 15 03:00:29 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS_Problems Jul 15 03:00:31 * tessier just returned from Home Depot with a $19 tool set because that is the only thing they had which had a Torx 6 screwdriver in it Jul 15 03:00:35 t-mobile SIM works for me Jul 15 03:02:10 SpeedEvil, ive had mine sat at my window for an hour... i live in new mexico... there is nothing in the way of the sky and im picking up nothing :'( Jul 15 03:02:56 i even tried the ublox stuff to try and bootstrap it to no avail (although that did get me to install the dev environment finally) Jul 15 03:03:02 Some windows are not transparent to GPS Jul 15 03:03:05 * benlake rebooted the moko while plugged in again Jul 15 03:03:10 frak! Jul 15 03:04:00 * ancient123 snickers at benlake Jul 15 03:04:08 If your windows have been replaced/installed in the last 20 years or so, they may well be coated in such a way to not let GPS in. Jul 15 03:04:23 new house Jul 15 03:04:26 so prolly >.< Jul 15 03:04:29 (or out) Jul 15 03:04:29 or EZ-pASS Jul 15 03:04:45 However, it could also be that your GPS is broken. Jul 15 03:04:56 YES IT COULD. Jul 15 03:04:57 :( Jul 15 03:05:39 Dave: one only of your GPSs is broken? Jul 15 03:06:16 Yes. Jul 15 03:06:23 Only one, it would seem. Jul 15 03:06:30 Though I have about forty others which are untested. Jul 15 03:06:35 :) Jul 15 03:07:25 hmm well time to wander out side for a few i guess Jul 15 03:08:48 GPS testing, I presume. Jul 15 03:08:51 wut Jul 15 03:09:04 Dave, etc. Jul 15 03:09:19 It's a cunning plot to get linux users to go outside! Jul 15 03:09:25 yes Jul 15 03:09:27 hahaha Jul 15 03:09:29 yep... if getting a fix sucks this much then im gonna hate taos come winter time Jul 15 03:09:49 I hate IM too Jul 15 03:10:03 screw outside... i just put mine near a big window Jul 15 03:10:04 haha Jul 15 03:10:16 running gpsd over wifi so i'm sitting at my desktop reading the data Jul 15 03:10:20 LOL @ SpeedEvil Jul 15 03:10:25 10010 seconds and counting ... nothing Jul 15 03:10:37 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * r5aaa5b5a88b3 10/otapi/ (2 files in 2 dirs): otapi: add org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.GetHomeZones() -> a(iii), for retrieving the homezone coordinates from the SIM card. Jul 15 03:10:45 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r68d6d36d0d56 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/abstract/mediator.py: ogsmd: add org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.GetHomeZones() -> a(iii), retrieves home zone coordinates in Gauss-Krueger format Jul 15 03:10:45 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r31af10560104 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/ti_calypso/channel.py: ogsmd: [TI CALYPSO]: enable cell broadcasts for home zone Jul 15 03:10:46 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rfbffe473dcb3 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/parser.py: ogsmd: make the new parser more forgiving wrt. spec violations Jul 15 03:10:48 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r6b918819df48 10/ (ChangeLog framework/subsystems/ogsmd/objects.py): ogsmd: update ChangeLog Jul 15 03:10:53 CIA-46: fuck you Jul 15 03:11:29 :S Jul 15 03:11:31 :D Jul 15 03:18:41 nadda Jul 15 03:18:43 :( Jul 15 03:19:05 i have a cellphone with gps... that cant make calls or use gps... Jul 15 03:19:21 it has a gimped out linux console though ^.^ Jul 15 03:20:05 :P Jul 15 03:20:07 yep Jul 15 03:21:35 i am here http://www.wunderground.com/US/NM/Albuquerque/KAEG.html Jul 15 03:22:07 new mexico.. where scattered clouds mean a high chance to rain *eyeroll* Jul 15 03:22:08 where can I find some latest/recent GTA01 images? Jul 15 03:23:10 so i tried flashing ASU on to the phone now it freezes at the openmoko splash screen, any suggestions? Jul 15 03:23:38 Ok, I finally got my phone open. The GPS antenna connector looks fine. It goes in with a click. Jul 15 03:23:42 The solder joints look good. Jul 15 03:24:11 :/ Jul 15 03:24:50 anybody? Jul 15 03:25:09 Arg0naut: try flashing again Jul 15 03:25:17 Arg0naut: or flash a different image Jul 15 03:25:24 My FR keeps shutting down if I let it sit on the boot screen after 60 seconds Jul 15 03:25:39 even if I connect to it via USB serial.. How do I stop that? Jul 15 03:25:41 benlake: you may need to keep pressing aux occasionally Jul 15 03:25:47 there's a boot_menu_timeout environment variable that you can set Jul 15 03:25:51 every 60 seconds? Jul 15 03:25:53 benlake: there is alos a setting you can set in the environemtn Jul 15 03:26:28 ah, what shell am I in when I'm in USB serial? Jul 15 03:26:47 uboot Jul 15 03:26:54 benlake: it's uboot, check the wiki for commands Jul 15 03:27:12 I don't want to connect it again until I know what's up because when it powers down my mac turns off the USB port. It does that when there is funky voltage, I've zapped it before Jul 15 03:27:18 will do Jul 15 03:27:21 thanks Jul 15 03:27:27 wiki "Bootloader_environment" Jul 15 03:28:04 thanks Jul 15 03:29:16 During the phone bootup when kernel messages are scrolling like mad I noticed this: Jul 15 03:29:20 CRCFAIL 0x1a3d Jul 15 03:29:32 That appears half a dozen times or so. I that norma? Jul 15 03:29:53 One wouldn't think so, but nobody seems alarmed too much... Jul 15 03:30:41 mwester: You've seen it too? Jul 15 03:31:59 I think it's a soft-error from the NAND Jul 15 03:32:14 someone refresh my memory is there anything different between an openmoko-image-fic-gta01.jffs2 and an OpenMoko-openmoko-image-glibc blah blah in the same dir on the snapshots website? they are same size and same date. Jul 15 03:32:18 these should be correctable automatically' Jul 15 03:32:59 notserpe: no difference, the shorter name is a symlink to the other one (at least it was the last time I looked) Jul 15 03:33:28 tnx Jul 15 03:33:47 is boot_menu_timeout in seconds? Jul 15 03:33:51 i am highly amused that the media player will play mp3 but not flac... i have yet to try ogg though Jul 15 03:33:52 is 2007.11 the newest official? Jul 15 03:34:24 sorry, I've been out of the loop for about 6 months. Jul 15 03:35:06 The time on my freerunner is always wrong. Isn't it supposed to get it from the gsm network? Jul 15 03:35:40 tessier: not implemented yet Jul 15 03:35:55 ah...well...is there an ntp client available? Jul 15 03:36:25 what firmware rev is shipping on the freerunner? Jul 15 03:37:24 notserpe, 2007.2 .. as release in april 2008 Jul 15 03:37:49 tessier: opkg install ntp Jul 15 03:37:50 make sure you set the correct timezone Jul 15 03:38:23 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Latest_Images talks about the images (briefly) and http://buildhost.openmoko.org/releases/Freerunner/ holds the "stable" 2007.2 release that it ships with Jul 15 03:38:34 opkg install cellphone Jul 15 03:39:47 wow. how stable is the neo/freerunner at this point? Jul 15 03:40:01 ieatlint: When would I ever have to actually flash a new image as opposed to doing an opkg upgrade? Jul 15 03:40:32 tessier, i dunno... at the very least, i imagine a kernel upgrade would require a flash Jul 15 03:40:34 notserpe: well mine hasn't tried to cut it's wrists if that's what you mean... Jul 15 03:40:37 basically what is a good image to put on my GTA01v4? Jul 15 03:40:49 ieatlint: I did an opkg upgrade and it seemed to download the kernel and flash it itself. Jul 15 03:41:07 well then, aren't you special Jul 15 03:41:09 :P Jul 15 03:41:14 I guess I am! :) Jul 15 03:41:18 i dunno, i'm just a user Jul 15 03:41:31 Me too. I just got my phone yesterday. Jul 15 03:41:35 sitwon: I've just sat down about 15 minutes ago to get caught up abit on openmoko. Haven't been following it much since I've been way too busy since last september. Jul 15 03:41:39 I've already taken it apart and installed a bunch of software. Jul 15 03:42:45 are there buildhost daily changelogs someplace? Jul 15 03:42:58 i have to say the "boot" screen on the daily image is rather interesting Jul 15 03:43:02 impressively, there doesn't seem to be changelogs :( Jul 15 03:43:38 so is there any point in flashing my 1973 in an effort to actually use it on a trip in the next 2 weeks? last time I checked, dialer wasn't working... I'm assuming things have impressed. Jul 15 03:43:40 er improved. Jul 15 03:43:43 * tessier scp's mp3's onto his freerunner Jul 15 03:44:06 notserpe: the dialer works now Jul 15 03:44:14 notserpe, well, the dialer works fine on my gta02 with essentially the same software Jul 15 03:44:31 if you want usability, check out the qtopia images up there... they give you pretty decent sms and telephony Jul 15 03:44:34 sitwon what image you running? Jul 15 03:45:35 notserpe: right now, the latest from http://buildhost.openmoko.org/releases/Freerunner/ Jul 15 03:45:45 on a freerunner? Jul 15 03:45:52 openmoko-devel-image-om-gta02.jffs2 Jul 15 03:46:00 yea Jul 15 03:46:14 I've also tried the Qtopia image, it's pretty impressive Jul 15 03:48:01 I'm gonna see how bad the bleeding is with the latest snapshot of qtopia then. Jul 15 03:48:54 wow, I totally missed that whole nokia/trolltech gpl thing last month. Jul 15 03:51:25 is this a good apm message? "Off-line, battery status critical" :P Jul 15 03:52:31 tessier: how long does it take so save one file Jul 15 03:52:41 to save one* Jul 15 03:53:40 kd8ikt: Save? Practically instantly. It's writing to flash. Just a few seconds to copy a file over. 500KB/s. Jul 15 03:54:07 sdcard? Jul 15 03:54:47 the asu displeases me Jul 15 03:55:10 ieatlint: Why so? Jul 15 03:55:44 its ui is clunky, the settings are inaccessible Jul 15 03:56:00 it doesn't have gsmd, so no libgsm-tool Jul 15 03:56:33 notserpe: think I missed it too. what's that? Jul 15 03:58:55 ieatlint: I will forgive anything like that if some group of people developes a stack that actually makes the Freerunner work as a phone. Reliably, For at least 24 hours between charges. Until that happens, the whole thing is just a hobby. Jul 15 03:59:30 true Jul 15 03:59:58 Jul 15 04:00:22 although the settings thing is pretty annoying Jul 15 04:00:35 if you go into the settings, select modules...there's a whole bunch of things that won't open Jul 15 04:01:31 Yeay! mplayer can find and play my mp3's Jul 15 04:01:33 Now to try a movie... Jul 15 04:01:59 hah Jul 15 04:02:15 might need to use mplayer for that :p Jul 15 04:02:25 it would be interesting to see a "qtopia status" wiki page Jul 15 04:02:35 that labels all of the things that get in the way of using it as a primary phone Jul 15 04:02:37 no kidding :) Jul 15 04:02:38 too much stuff in mplayer? Jul 15 04:02:41 and links them to their Trac bugs Jul 15 04:02:45 hah Jul 15 04:02:46 and crosses them off when they're fixed Jul 15 04:03:04 does anyone have a couple of bugs we could get the page started with? Jul 15 04:03:42 cjb, no gps support Jul 15 04:03:48 Chocky: I have mplayer installed. That is how I played the mp3 Jul 15 04:04:21 gps problems, getting time from gsm not implemented, 802.11 not automatically setup, lots of things to work on. ;) Jul 15 04:04:39 ieatlint: huh. any idea what's missing? mainly gpsd? Jul 15 04:04:47 if so, who would take a patch to add gpsd to that build? Jul 15 04:04:54 Also power management seems a bit weird. Jul 15 04:04:56 no, the device isn't there when i looked for it Jul 15 04:05:00 no ttySAC1 Jul 15 04:05:07 oh. maybe you didn't install the kernel modules? Jul 15 04:05:30 crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 204, 65 Apr 26 08:26 /dev/ttySAC1 Jul 15 04:05:34 The device is there for me. Jul 15 04:05:43 Running a default image and tangogps installed Jul 15 04:05:44 interesting Jul 15 04:05:51 then nevermind Jul 15 04:06:58 i'm installing the qtopia from yesterday now Jul 15 04:07:00 will see Jul 15 04:07:11 does the phone work okay in qtopia? Jul 15 04:07:23 yeah, sms, telephony work fine Jul 15 04:07:24 I just did opkg upgrade :p Jul 15 04:07:28 and it has the best input methods Jul 15 04:07:31 by far the best Jul 15 04:07:35 that's pretty cool Jul 15 04:07:39 sounds like most people should use that, then? Jul 15 04:08:06 well, that's what the asu is supposed to be about... merging the openmoko and qtopia stuffs Jul 15 04:09:08 does qtopia have any webbrowser? i seem recall hearing that 4.4 will have one, but can we even install another browser at the moment? (eg, minimo) Jul 15 04:09:16 yes Jul 15 04:09:17 and yes Jul 15 04:14:33 hmm...can the mplayer in the repo not play ogg theora? Jul 15 04:18:57 here's a qtopia image issue... the ability to boot into it without issue Jul 15 04:19:46 every time i start it, qpe fucks up and i have to ssh in and restart it Jul 15 04:20:36 http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20080714/tc_pcworld/148356;_ylt=AiotyQnX6sYmvIAjzBLhXheor7oF Jul 15 04:20:43 justincase Jul 15 04:21:41 u might need something like this Jul 15 04:22:40 my freerunner is being held hostage i fear Jul 15 04:23:04 mplayer seems like it needs some work too Jul 15 04:23:22 Playing an mpeg video the screen goes black, mplayer is using 14% cpu, and nothing happens. Jul 15 04:23:27 I have to ssh in and kill mplayer Jul 15 04:23:45 When playing an ogg-theora I can get the audio after a long wait but no video and the screen stays normal. Jul 15 04:28:09 tessier, try running mplayer from the ssh session to see any errors/info Jul 15 04:28:21 type "export DISPLAY=:0.0" first though Jul 15 04:28:35 (then, any gui app run in that ssh session will show up on the FR's screen) Jul 15 04:28:50 ah, good idea Jul 15 04:30:08 Are bluetooth headsets working yet? Jul 15 04:30:15 The wiki says no but some of this info is out of date Jul 15 04:30:29 As there is now an applet to power on bluetooth Jul 15 04:30:35 uhm, i tried it earlier in 2007.2 and it was a no Jul 15 04:30:44 haven't tried it in the asu or qtopia Jul 15 04:30:55 i suppose i can in a min Jul 15 04:31:01 cjb: I was mentioning the brief article I saw about trolltech pulling qtopia gpl version for 3 weeks due to some funky business related to the nokia buy Jul 15 04:33:38 Wow. I did an opkg upgrade on Saturday and it downloaded and installed a bunch of stuff. Now I do it again two days later and it downloads and installs at least as much. Is stuff really changing that fast or is it duplicating efforts? Jul 15 04:34:14 if the kernel changes, then there will be lots of little packages Jul 15 04:34:18 that is 1/2 of it Jul 15 04:34:31 OE tends to break stuff up a lot more than Debian Jul 15 04:34:57 xp so sucks. Jul 15 04:35:12 oops...and just like last time I was ssh'd in when I did the upgrade and it upgraded dropbear and kicked me off Jul 15 04:35:42 [AO_ALSA] alsa-lib: pcm.c:2106:(snd_pcm_open_conf) Cannot open shared library /usr/lib/alsa-lib/libasound_module_pcm_bluetooth.so Jul 15 04:35:49 no, it does not support bluetooth yet Jul 15 04:36:09 yes, that bit is fun Jul 15 04:36:16 oh yes, it forgets the upgrade if that happens Jul 15 04:36:19 you need to do: Jul 15 04:36:22 installing alsa-lib, might do something Jul 15 04:36:32 opkg install dropbear >/dev/null 2>&1 Jul 15 04:36:32 nope Jul 15 04:36:35 that's why Jul 15 04:36:47 _then_ you can pull everything Jul 15 04:38:31 in order to get bluetooth headsets working with alsa, you need only add a device in asound.conf that says "type bluetooth" "device bdaddr" ... then tell applications to use that alsa device Jul 15 04:39:02 so the phone for instance could say call this phone number and use the bluetooth headset instead of dmix, and the sound would work fine... it's a very simple interface Jul 15 04:39:23 but it lacks the bluetooth alsa library at the moment Jul 15 04:39:51 That's a bit more complex as I understand it. Jul 15 04:40:06 The bluetooth device can send the audio directly, not going through the CPU. Jul 15 04:40:14 Or maybe I'm confused. Jul 15 04:40:34 i've configured bluetooth headsets on linux for use with things like gizmo/skype Jul 15 04:40:58 it's that simple... pair it, create an entry in asound.conf/asoundrc, and tell apps to use that device Jul 15 04:42:25 you can even control the device using the standard alsa mixer ... for instance, i named my headset "hs" ... "alsamixer -D pcm.hs" Jul 15 04:42:44 ALSA lib control.c:874:(snd_ctl_open_conf) Cannot open shared library /usr/lib/alsa-lib/libasound_module_ctl_bluetooth.so ... no bluetooth support in alsa is provided Jul 15 04:43:39 have you checked to see if the file was there? Jul 15 04:44:35 there's just a folder called smixer in the alsa-lib dir Jul 15 04:44:54 ok Jul 15 04:46:28 apparently the support is added through bluez Jul 15 04:46:35 ooo my neo is getting flashed for the first time in 9 months... it feels strange. Jul 15 04:47:10 hehe Jul 15 04:47:16 hmm Jul 15 04:47:18 i should flash my fr Jul 15 04:47:39 *** IN FUNCTION: ecore_event_handler_del() Jul 15 04:47:46 Input handle pointer is NULL! Jul 15 04:47:54 *** NAUGHTY PROGRAMMER!!! Jul 15 04:47:56 etc etc Jul 15 04:48:25 Yeah, somebody at OM is still sitting in the corner for that. Jul 15 04:49:36 So that is a known/fixed issue? Jul 15 04:50:21 what's the state of sdio wifi for the neo presently? Jul 15 04:50:29 sdio? Jul 15 04:50:48 wifi in sd slot Jul 15 04:50:50 Setting up 802.11 wifi is next on my list. Jul 15 04:51:04 notserpe: i got it working with wpa Jul 15 04:51:14 what card you using? Jul 15 04:51:26 the built in card Jul 15 04:51:46 I'm talking 1973 not freerunner. Jul 15 04:51:57 oh, sorry Jul 15 04:52:20 I'll dig around the wiki i guess. Jul 15 04:54:10 is everybodys freerunner showing up on scedule\ Jul 15 04:54:20 linuxxr: Seems to be Jul 15 04:54:34 hmm, should i flash uboot as well as kernel and rootfs? Jul 15 04:54:39 ok mines still says san pablo Jul 15 04:54:48 linuxxr: mine arrived today Jul 15 04:54:54 cool Jul 15 04:55:08 has anyone been able to get WPA2 working with their FR? Jul 15 04:55:27 walrustown: I heard there were problems with anything but open AP's Jul 15 04:55:44 tessier, thanks Jul 15 04:55:59 although that wasn't exactly what I wanted to hear :/ Jul 15 04:56:37 * Chox using WEP here with qtopia Jul 15 04:56:54 shipped kernel has issues with Wifi Jul 15 04:57:22 WEP works fine for me if I set the key before I set the essid. After I set the essid I can't change the key. Jul 15 04:57:28 How about WPA? Jul 15 04:57:28 yeh Jul 15 04:57:29 sounds to me like the gta02 hardware was ready but not software. Jul 15 04:57:44 some funnies. typical of Linux wifi tho. Jul 15 04:58:09 hmm, qtopia, or gtk. decisions decisions... Jul 15 04:58:15 notserpe: Tell that to the GPS in mine. Jul 15 04:58:56 does a gta01 debug board work with freer? Jul 15 04:59:49 iirc, sorta Jul 15 05:00:00 you get some features, but not everything Jul 15 05:06:04 nullpuppy: You probably don't need to flash uboot Jul 15 05:06:08 how many backorders of freerunner are there currently? any chance I'll get one shorty on the second run? Jul 15 05:06:28 CM: *nods* Jul 15 05:06:42 are there changelogs posted anywhere? that'd be kinda handy Jul 15 05:07:07 nullpuppy, nobody responded with a yes to my asking the same thing about an hour ago Jul 15 05:07:17 k Jul 15 05:07:28 * nullpuppy might post something in the ML later then Jul 15 05:09:09 hmm Jul 15 05:09:28 opkg update never finishes. It runs into that "Input handle pointer is null" and then crashes. Jul 15 05:09:45 If I run it again it will upgrade all of the same packages over again. WTF? Jul 15 05:09:56 Doesn't it keep a db of what versions it currently has and not upgrade those like rpm does? Jul 15 05:10:38 no issues here with opkg update or upgrade Jul 15 05:13:37 hi can anyone tell me which is the best OS for openmoko development? Jul 15 05:13:47 DOS Jul 15 05:13:50 beos Jul 15 05:13:56 Emacs Jul 15 05:14:37 seriously, though, whatever you're comfortable in Jul 15 05:14:51 I personally find it rough doing any kind of development in Windows Jul 15 05:14:55 well, with a linux environment at least Jul 15 05:14:55 never tried a Mac Jul 15 05:15:03 but in the end, it's all just plumbing for Emacs Jul 15 05:15:06 I'm going to go out on a limb and say Linux Jul 15 05:15:13 (Ubuntu's pretty good.) Jul 15 05:15:18 i've heard people complain about lack of dfu-util in windows... as though the rest of us care Jul 15 05:15:41 That isn't the only thing windows lacks. Jul 15 05:18:05 newb_: sorry, everyone's taking the piss, which is pretty understandable if you're an experienced Linux user. Openmoko is Linux-based and you're best using a Linux desktop for development Jul 15 05:18:48 Stroller: i meant best Linux; I don't consider Windoze and the like as OSes. Jul 15 05:18:59 hey now, we stopped saying bullshit midway through our "advice" Jul 15 05:19:19 careful... beos has a lot of redeeming qualities Jul 15 05:19:24 it is a real os! Jul 15 05:19:30 Stroller: i'm having serious issues getting the Qemu to work on Ubuntu Jul 15 05:19:38 so i was wondering if i should switch to something else Jul 15 05:19:42 ieatlint: beos or hiaku? Jul 15 05:20:17 i am unfamiliar with haiku Jul 15 05:20:34 really? huh. alright ;) Jul 15 05:20:56 hiaku (or is haiku ... either way) is an open implementation/clone of beos Jul 15 05:21:08 ah, the people who didn't give up Jul 15 05:21:18 yeah Jul 15 05:21:22 pretty much Jul 15 05:21:32 haiku-os.org Jul 15 05:21:54 seriously which linux flavor do most people use for openmoko development? :) Jul 15 05:22:13 there is no answer to that Jul 15 05:22:17 no one's done a poll Jul 15 05:22:20 I've used both Debian and OpenSUSE 10.3 Jul 15 05:22:36 and i'm on gentoo Jul 15 05:22:37 mmontour: did the qemu work for u? Jul 15 05:22:38 i'm currently using ubuntu Jul 15 05:22:51 nullpuppy: did u manage to get qemu working? Jul 15 05:23:03 yeah Jul 15 05:23:21 The qemu that's part of the 'make openmoko-devel-image' worked. I haven't tried using qemu directly Jul 15 05:23:26 very slow, but it did work Jul 15 05:23:49 openmoko: 03zecke * r3eb865ecd108 10/src/server/phone/telephony/callpolicymanager/cell/ (cellmodemmanager.cpp cellmodemmanager.h): [gsm] Handle failing AT+CFUN for the TI Calypso Jul 15 05:24:02 nullpuppy: mine hangs with a jffs2 notice and warning so i was wondering if it's a problem with Ubuntu Jul 15 05:24:08 You may have to manually install a gcc 3.x to build qemu - it has issues with higher compiler versions Jul 15 05:24:49 hm.. Are you supposed to end up with a x86 binary when bulding the openmoko-sample2 application using the toolchain, i would have expected an arm binary? Jul 15 05:24:59 mmontour: but otherwise i can get the toolchain working right? i shouldn't have issues with that. and also i guess i can flash the neo after that. Jul 15 05:25:12 Psi: u should get an arm binary Jul 15 05:25:22 well i dont, hehe Jul 15 05:25:28 Every time I reboot my phone it comes back up and says "2 missed calls" at the bottom of the screen Jul 15 05:25:36 Psi: whats your local.conf build target set at? Jul 15 05:26:16 tessier: that's nice. someone is missing u LOL Jul 15 05:26:25 i wouldnt know, im new to linux development, just following 'building a sample project' on the wiki Jul 15 05:26:27 tessier: That's my fault - every time you reboot, I call you twice. Jul 15 05:26:42 ok Jul 15 05:26:45 Both very useful answers, thanks. :P Jul 15 05:26:54 tessier: :) Jul 15 05:26:57 And I installed ntpd and the time is still always wrong. Jul 15 05:27:12 tessier: check the timezone Jul 15 05:27:19 does the neo gps work yet? Jul 15 05:27:26 shouldn't there be a way to pull time from gsm? Jul 15 05:27:26 1973... Jul 15 05:27:34 newb_: it says it is 9:59. That isn't right in any time zone Jul 15 05:27:51 nullpuppy: not all networks allow u to pull time Jul 15 05:27:52 I haven't tried with the toolchain - I built the whole image with MokoMakefile. It is possible to build without qemu, but you have to disable binary locale generation for glibc Jul 15 05:27:57 hi, is there other tutorial for programming in openmoko ? Jul 15 05:27:58 notserpe: GPS on neo1973 has worked well for 7 or 8 months now. Jul 15 05:27:58 tessier: at least not on earth... ;) Jul 15 05:28:02 tessier: it's 10:59 where i am Jul 15 05:28:03 I have read the helloworld one.. Jul 15 05:28:08 newb__: alright Jul 15 05:28:33 tessier: install ntpdate instead of ntpd Jul 15 05:28:36 newb_: That seems unlikely Jul 15 05:28:37 diversity can't fix on this image I just loaded. Jul 15 05:29:36 ah, ntpdate did it. Now how do I set the timezone? Jul 15 05:30:01 ln -sf /usr/share/i/can't/remmeber/zone/info/path /etc/localtime Jul 15 05:30:03 notserpe: The neo1973 needs gllin to work. Jul 15 05:30:23 /usr/share/zoneinfo looks right Jul 15 05:30:39 yeah, then country/city or whatever Jul 15 05:32:19 hmmm, /me comtemplates building something similar to motorola phone tools for openmoko Jul 15 05:32:48 nullpuppy: openmoko works on Motoming, Motorokr Jul 15 05:33:02 * nullpuppy nods Jul 15 05:33:11 does the phone tools app still work with it then? Jul 15 05:33:31 i'm just thinking having an app to sync contacts, etc easily would be kinda nice Jul 15 05:33:36 nullpuppy: i haven't tried it out myself but i know some ppl who have Jul 15 05:34:54 ok Jul 15 05:36:12 * benlake sighs Jul 15 05:36:51 I wonder why so little of the OSX wiki page uses 10.5 Jul 15 05:37:31 WTF? I changed the /etc/localtime symlink and it's still doing UTC. Jul 15 05:37:59 ops Jul 15 05:38:00 oops Jul 15 05:38:04 /etc/localime isn't quite right Jul 15 05:38:05 restarted x? Jul 15 05:38:07 How might I go about entering a forward slash using the numeric keypad the default terminal utilizes (2007.2 is what I mean by default) Jul 15 05:38:09 lol Jul 15 05:38:35 benlake: you have to install the alternate keyboard. Jul 15 05:38:40 need..... vi... editing mode.... Jul 15 05:38:42 info is on the Getting Started wiki page Jul 15 05:38:53 of which I cannot do because I can't get any useful networking going Jul 15 05:38:54 YEAY. Now we have the correct time. Jul 15 05:39:04 tessier: woot Jul 15 05:39:10 and half of the networking steps require commands that use forward slashes! Jul 15 05:39:11 benlake: why not? Jul 15 05:39:23 benlake: can you ssh into it? Jul 15 05:39:26 benlake: Gotta get network over USB goign Jul 15 05:39:34 benlake: I did that without needing to use the on screen keyboard Jul 15 05:39:46 that is what I have been trying to do Jul 15 05:40:00 all the osx driver do not work on 10.5 Jul 15 05:40:00 benlake: all you need to do is bring up usb networking on the pc and ssh to 192.168.0.202 Jul 15 05:40:11 oh Jul 15 05:40:13 hrm Jul 15 05:40:23 and the PPP commands require a forward slash Jul 15 05:40:47 hmm.. can you ssh over bluetooth? Jul 15 05:40:49 so I have this chicken and this egg you see... Jul 15 05:40:50 i just put in a sim card, it says "registering" and i can't make or receive a call Jul 15 05:40:59 btw, i just got a freerunner Jul 15 05:41:03 ozzloy: Turn on the gsm modem Jul 15 05:41:07 * benlake would not have guessed Jul 15 05:41:14 ozzloy: Click on the antenna icon in the upper right Jul 15 05:41:28 tessier: it has 2 bars Jul 15 05:41:48 ozzloy: Do it anyway. Turn it on and the go back in there and turn on auto-register. That's what I had to do. Then it worked fine. Jul 15 05:42:02 benlake, do you have a wifi network you can connect it to? Jul 15 05:42:17 yep, I've seen those commands to Jul 15 05:42:40 you should be able to get it online via wifi... with a lot of effort on that crappy keypad Jul 15 05:42:51 tessier: turned it off and back on, it just has a question mark Jul 15 05:42:59 wait, maybe it's registering right now Jul 15 05:43:38 ieatlint: wifi is my next project now that I have time working. That and somehow finishing an upgrade. Jul 15 05:43:44 still question mark Jul 15 05:43:49 openmoko: 03zecke * r822ccdef5e1a 10/src/libraries/qtopia/qsoftmenubar.cpp: [help] Only show the "Help" menu entry if a provider of the Help service is installed Jul 15 05:43:49 power cycling! Jul 15 05:44:14 tessier: freerunner or 1973? Jul 15 05:44:29 ieatlint: the first command asks me to create a file Jul 15 05:44:35 freerunner Jul 15 05:44:47 ieatlint: I can't navigate the fs without a forward slash Jul 15 05:44:49 tessier: i have wifi working Jul 15 05:44:55 yes, you can Jul 15 05:45:02 "cd .." Jul 15 05:45:03 a lot Jul 15 05:45:05 tessier: is there a meetup this thursday? Jul 15 05:45:18 then when at / ... "cd etc", etc Jul 15 05:45:50 you really need to get usb networking working Jul 15 05:45:50 and then when I'm editing the file I enter "ctrl_interface=/var/run/wpa_supplicant Jul 15 05:45:50 " Jul 15 05:46:05 I hear yeah man, I would do it... if I could Jul 15 05:46:08 oh, point taken Jul 15 05:46:16 Copy/paste? Jul 15 05:46:24 can you get a >? Jul 15 05:46:42 benlake: i usually does cd .. and copies the / from the prompt Jul 15 05:46:57 negative Jul 15 05:47:09 hmm Jul 15 05:47:28 Wow. The keyboard doesn't have common *nix characters? Jul 15 05:47:37 for special characters i recommend making a file in ~ you can cat and copy from Jul 15 05:47:39 ok, i have a solution Jul 15 05:47:58 find a file that has a / in it Jul 15 05:48:06 and vi can copy/paste it Jul 15 05:48:34 trying... Jul 15 05:48:37 here: I'll send you a bunch: /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Jul 15 05:48:44 Merry Christmas. :-) Jul 15 05:48:49 got it! :P Jul 15 05:49:01 just make sure not to overwrite a file you need now Jul 15 05:49:04 ok now, omfg am I really about to attempt this. Jul 15 05:49:07 :saveas bleh Jul 15 05:49:19 (make that the first thing you do) Jul 15 05:49:46 rivalarrival: Please post those on the wiki! Jul 15 05:49:49 w00t! Jul 15 05:50:22 n/m that was short lived :P Jul 15 05:50:28 lol Jul 15 05:50:45 ieatlint: when you're in edit mode in vi, how do you exit back to command mode? The default keybopard has no escape key Jul 15 05:51:05 oh ... uhm ... right... hehe Jul 15 05:51:18 hehe, WTF. Jul 15 05:51:30 lol Jul 15 05:51:33 Is it just me, but was the lack of a full keyboard just a slight oversight? Jul 15 05:51:35 It's fsck'd up Jul 15 05:51:39 Stroller: Why not save yourself enormous grief and install the matchbox keyboard? Jul 15 05:52:02 why not just use usbnet and ssh into it Jul 15 05:52:04 benlake: I think if you upgrade to the newer firmware it's better Jul 15 05:52:20 why the hell not! Jul 15 05:52:26 omg, ed isn't on this? Jul 15 05:52:33 Yeah, quit screwing around with it and fucker it up! Jul 15 05:52:37 rtm: at the time, I didn't have USB networking working. Because the Freerunner was plugged into the wall and had not completed it's full first charge Jul 15 05:53:19 benlake, yeah, without usb networking, you're screwed Jul 15 05:53:30 why doesn't it work? something with osx? Jul 15 05:53:42 because my solution for that, is go get a linux live cd Jul 15 05:53:52 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MacOS_X#USB_Networking Jul 15 05:53:55 tessier: what area of sd are you in? Jul 15 05:54:05 tessier: i might not be close enough to an 850 tower Jul 15 05:54:09 apparently not a "fault" situation Jul 15 05:54:18 ieatlint: : "why doesn't it work? something with osx?" - are you taking to me? Jul 15 05:54:23 is it supposed to continually say "registering"? Jul 15 05:54:24 no, benlake Jul 15 05:54:35 but the drivers to overcome some default assumptions aren't working for me Jul 15 05:54:55 ieatlint: yes I know... not a fault situation...it is no ones fault Jul 15 05:54:57 benlake, well, either work that out, or get a linux livecd :P Jul 15 05:55:00 ieatlint: ok, thx Jul 15 05:55:31 I have a couple linux boxes, but they are all on duty :P Jul 15 05:56:07 I'd rather futs with OSX as it is where my phone will live Jul 15 05:56:24 benlake: ah! 10.5 seems to be impossible here, too. 10.4 is pretty lame, too (looks like it needs a reboot of OS X if you reboot the Freerunner) Jul 15 05:57:00 all sorts of rebooting has occurred, but I see none of the devices they say should show up Jul 15 05:57:30 benlake: so, ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0 fails in osx? Jul 15 05:57:53 there is no usb0 device Jul 15 05:57:59 that is what the drivers were trying to rectify Jul 15 05:58:02 ok Jul 15 05:58:03 No, I didn't under 10.5, either. It's just flat. Even using that kext linked to in the wiki Jul 15 05:58:08 ah, alright Jul 15 05:58:51 I wish the booted moko would let me serial in tty style Jul 15 05:59:10 cause I can do that Jul 15 05:59:26 need a debug board to do that Jul 15 05:59:34 I think I'm just gonna plug it into a Linux box and ssh into that Jul 15 05:59:36 blargpants Jul 15 06:01:05 the freeruneers modem seems keep loosing it registered status. at least the device I have Jul 15 06:01:42 ljp: I had problems registerng & it turned out the SIM wasn't seated correctly Jul 15 06:02:26 oh it registers fine, but then reregisters after only a few minutes or so Jul 15 06:02:54 ok, the download page tells me to go http://downloads.openmoko.org/recommended/ for the FR recommended images, but the images say gta01!? Jul 15 06:03:26 Well, ljp, I just thought it might be possible your SIM holder was coming loose, or something? Jul 15 06:03:44 possibly. trying it without the sd card Jul 15 06:04:03 ayeuu: How did you manage to update the boot menu settings to boot from SD? For some reason it doesn't save the changed settings for me, tried with neocon. Jul 15 06:04:48 ljp: once the SIM holder has hinged down you have to slide it. Note "LOCK ->" is stamped into the holder Jul 15 06:05:26 I've seen the link roll through here a lot, so I hate to ask, but where is the flashing guide? Jul 15 06:06:08 Oh I fail, totally see it Jul 15 06:06:20 benlake: http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Freerunner/ Jul 15 06:06:25 * benlake bows Jul 15 06:06:51 helps to sift a bit through http://downloads.openmoko.org and get the folder structure Jul 15 06:07:42 thanks everyone Jul 15 06:07:48 * benlake sleeps Jul 15 06:11:00 hey wait a second Jul 15 06:11:08 the headset jack Jul 15 06:11:12 is not 1/8"! Jul 15 06:11:29 nope! Jul 15 06:11:39 aw, hell Jul 15 06:11:43 2.5mm Jul 15 06:11:44 I wanted to plug my headphones in :/ Jul 15 06:12:40 don't worry, it's a feature Jul 15 06:13:12 oh, it is? Jul 15 06:13:13 yay Jul 15 06:14:30 guess it's adapter time Jul 15 06:15:23 ok. qtopia or gtk. decision time Jul 15 06:16:13 apparently you need to restart qpe after you run "upgrade" ... Jul 15 06:21:47 that was close... Jul 15 06:21:55 nearly tried to flash rootfs to kernel.... Jul 15 06:24:59 nullpuppy, it wouldn't have done anything bad really Jul 15 06:25:05 you'd just have to re-flash the kernel again Jul 15 06:25:18 yeah Jul 15 06:25:41 damn rootfs takes too long to flash Jul 15 06:27:19 thanks to usb1 Jul 15 06:27:27 yup Jul 15 06:28:00 quite so Jul 15 06:28:10 let that be the least of our problems Jul 15 06:28:29 what are you flashing it with? Jul 15 06:29:05 a personal build or what Jul 15 06:30:12 heh, opkg let me install gtk apps without gtk installed Jul 15 06:30:18 truly an awesome package manager :P Jul 15 06:30:37 kd8ikt: currently daily of gtk build Jul 15 06:30:46 hm thats unlike opkg to do that Jul 15 06:32:09 but then again its not the installers fault its that http://downloads.openmoko.org/openmoko-repository/Freerunner/Packages is empty Jul 15 06:32:33 yeah, it's the packager of this app... i'm needlessly bashing Jul 15 06:33:23 heres what a sane Package file looks like http://downloads.openwrt.org/backports/0.9/Packages Jul 15 06:34:17 morning ;) Jul 15 06:37:26 see what i'm saying? Jul 15 06:38:27 bhhhb Jul 15 06:42:41 anyone have any idea why not all my contacts are showing up? Jul 15 06:43:20 in gtk image Jul 15 06:43:27 (flashing to test qtopia now) Jul 15 06:46:04 my moko will be here tomorrow morning Jul 15 06:47:56 hey Jul 15 06:48:27 how can you set sound volume (better yet: how can you disable the ticking sound each time you touch the screen ?) Jul 15 07:06:51 freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * rd0246d971a34 10/test/test.py: Some minor changes Jul 15 07:06:51 freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * rab726444d1c1 10/ (13 files in 9 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of ssh://git@git.freesmartphone.org/framework Jul 15 07:10:04 have anyway to install pdf in openmoko? Jul 15 07:11:15 hrm. /me reverts back to gtk Jul 15 07:12:25 nullpuppy: did you try ASU or 'upstream' qtopia? Jul 15 07:12:32 ASU Jul 15 07:12:49 todays daily build Jul 15 07:13:35 ok, upstream qtopia is supposedly quite nice, but I haven't gotten anything to boot from the SD yet, so I'm still just using GTK Jul 15 07:13:44 My provider (Sprint PCS) isn't listed on http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/cou_us.shtml , should I be looking for it under another name? Jul 15 07:13:46 * nullpuppy nods Jul 15 07:13:58 andrewy: sprint isn't gsm Jul 15 07:14:05 oh :( Jul 15 07:14:14 yeah :/ Jul 15 07:14:33 primary us gsm providers are tmobile and att Jul 15 07:14:58 tmobile has bad reception in my area and i'm not about to use att Jul 15 07:14:59 oh well Jul 15 07:15:01 don't know of any others Jul 15 07:15:12 sorry man :/ Jul 15 07:15:52 not being tempted to buy a new phone is probably a good thing Jul 15 07:15:56 thanks though Jul 15 07:16:03 hehe, yeah Jul 15 07:16:05 no prob. Jul 15 07:18:21 * newb sleeps Jul 15 07:19:55 good morning Jul 15 07:20:39 hello everyone! i have been keeping an eye on openmoko for some time with a great deal of excitement. before i make a purchase, i would really like to know what is the longest battery life time achieved so far?? Jul 15 07:22:05 balzar, that depends on a LOT of factors ... basically, assume not long enough Jul 15 07:22:30 it'd be like: go to bed, charge your phone ... go to work, charge your phone, go home, charge your phone... Jul 15 07:23:20 Really? I thought you could usually expect to get a day out of the Freerunner Jul 15 07:23:28 on openmoko's wiki there is some info about getting from 12 hours up to 21 ? Jul 15 07:23:56 well, depends on your use Jul 15 07:24:09 iirc, factory shipped firmware will give you around 6. not sure where the other firmwares sit currently Jul 15 07:24:20 6 sounds right to me Jul 15 07:24:38 with gps/wifi/bt/etc off, you should be good for a while if its in suspend most of the time. Jul 15 07:25:16 well, suspend is dangerous Jul 15 07:25:27 things don't always return, and calls can be missed in suspend mode Jul 15 07:25:36 * nullpuppy nods Jul 15 07:25:41 hm, will openmoko run j2me apps? Jul 15 07:25:57 should, just need to install a j2me runtime. Jul 15 07:26:03 there's a java runtime for it Jul 15 07:26:03 afaik Jul 15 07:26:11 i forget what it's called.. something weird Jul 15 07:27:52 ive developed this crypto app for secure communication for j2me platform Jul 15 07:28:11 only thing im afraid of, its firmware update over the air Jul 15 07:28:25 will openmoko be safe from that? Jul 15 07:28:33 hmmm, there's a "jamvm" packaged labelled "A compact Java Virtual Machine which conforms to the JVM specification version 2." Jul 15 07:29:06 ieatlint: what about MIDP, CLDC ? Jul 15 07:29:32 i don't even know what those are Jul 15 07:29:36 i despise java myself Jul 15 07:30:01 why? java is great Jul 15 07:30:10 uh.. right Jul 15 07:30:27 actually, it is Jul 15 07:30:49 what do you despise it for? Jul 15 07:30:51 mono is better, and i don't like it much either Jul 15 07:32:40 never heard of mono, srry Jul 15 07:32:54 aka .net Jul 15 07:33:17 my problem with runtime languages like java is that they are bulky, slow and never properly integrate with the host os Jul 15 07:34:01 java being slow its a myth^^ Jul 15 07:34:07 it's not a myth Jul 15 07:34:14 its an old myth Jul 15 07:34:46 it might get exaggerated, but it is not a myth Jul 15 07:35:06 actually, sometimes java is even faster than p.e. c++ Jul 15 07:35:09 java didn't get better, computers did and it became less noticeable Jul 15 07:35:12 very old myth and repeaded way too often Jul 15 07:35:22 yes beni_ Jul 15 07:35:47 it's a myth that has proven true to me throughout my entire experiences with it Jul 15 07:36:07 I think the examples in which java is faster than C++ are *rather contrived* Jul 15 07:36:46 the logic of that is simply... odd... if c++ is slower than java, it's because something is wrong with the c++ code Jul 15 07:36:52 the problem is, that there are plenty apps out there that are old and buggy and thus slow. Jul 15 07:37:03 you can also have horribly slow c apps Jul 15 07:37:17 ieatlint: same ture for java these days. Jul 15 07:37:25 that's an absolutely general statement Jul 15 07:38:03 but 99% of the time the same buggy, slow program written in C and Java will be faster in C. Jul 15 07:38:10 ironically i'm wearing a sun t-shirt right now, lol Jul 15 07:38:24 :P Jul 15 07:38:34 I scan http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Calendar but I alos don't know how to install it, I opkg list|grep calendar but get nothing Jul 15 07:38:55 walrustown: 99% of the time it will be programs written in c that have buffer overflows etc. -.- Jul 15 07:38:59 ChandleWEi, try "grep -i calendar" Jul 15 07:39:10 openmoko-dates2 " The Openmoko Calendar" Jul 15 07:39:18 no7, no doubt Jul 15 07:39:35 but I'm not arguing that C > Java Jul 15 07:39:39 in all respects Jul 15 07:39:46 ieathlint: thx ,I get it Jul 15 07:40:17 I'm just arguing that the "Java being slow is a myth" thing is silly Jul 15 07:40:34 Trust me, I like Java, and I'm not going to go write my next web app in C Jul 15 07:40:41 walrustom: its because of gui stuff Jul 15 07:40:47 good morning everyone ^^ Jul 15 07:40:55 (or whatever time it is at your location ;) ) Jul 15 07:40:59 Morning Jul 15 07:41:08 morning ChanServ Jul 15 07:41:11 ChaosEagle Jul 15 07:41:15 that is Jul 15 07:41:17 lol Jul 15 07:41:19 nm =) Jul 15 07:41:19 as i said, i think mono is better Jul 15 07:41:26 no7, it is largely GUI stuff, but it really boils down to the fact that there is an extra layer of indirection for *everything* Jul 15 07:42:19 anyway, i am starting to learn python now (and it's insanely easy to learn :) Jul 15 07:42:23 could anyone tell me where to get a qtopia-image for putting on my sd? Jul 15 07:42:37 for writing a quick application, i would agree with the general conception that it is quite good Jul 15 07:42:38 personally, i find java as a language to be sorta ugly. but regardless, the primary problem, speed wise, is crappy jvm's. Jul 15 07:42:47 python is next on my learn list. I did ruby, and have decided that it can be absurdly evil (monkey-patching, anyone) Jul 15 07:42:53 java will never be as fast as native, but it does have potential to be pretty decent Jul 15 07:43:04 nullpuppy java6 has made great improvements Jul 15 07:43:06 nullpuppy, agreed, pretty decent Jul 15 07:43:25 no7: thats great. it still won't be the same as native ;) Jul 15 07:43:27 walrustown, i was able to take my knowledge of c/++ and write a gtk app with glasses in about 45min Jul 15 07:43:29 it's impossible Jul 15 07:43:46 ieatlint, for the moko? Jul 15 07:44:00 yeah Jul 15 07:44:01 ieatlint: glasses? Jul 15 07:44:03 woot! Jul 15 07:44:07 lol Jul 15 07:44:13 glasses, classes, something like that :P Jul 15 07:44:17 hehe Jul 15 07:44:20 "no wonder it didn't run!" Jul 15 07:44:24 I'm trying to reserve this weekend for making a game for the FR Jul 15 07:44:25 lol Jul 15 07:44:28 nullpuppy: not the same, sometimes even better^^ Jul 15 07:44:49 walrustown: w00t! What do you have in mind? Jul 15 07:44:53 I'm so tired of hearing "sometimes even better" Jul 15 07:45:12 no7, it is simple not possible for java to be better than native if the native code is done correctly Jul 15 07:45:14 no7: how is that possible? you have an extra layer of translation being done w/ java, therefor more clockcycles Jul 15 07:45:15 walrustown srry for my bad english^^ Jul 15 07:45:16 ChaosEagle, ever play the wooden game "labyrinth" ? Like that, using the accelerometers Jul 15 07:45:32 no7: if java is running faster then native, then the native code is fubar Jul 15 07:45:34 no7, your english is fine, it's your views on Java that I take issue with :) Jul 15 07:45:41 walrustown: oh, that would be awesome! :) Jul 15 07:45:54 some balancing game would be very cool Jul 15 07:46:03 still waiting for someone to improve the wesnoth port, though ;) Jul 15 07:46:08 i remember a nice funny game where you have to guide a drunken guy home Jul 15 07:46:36 have there been any accelerometer apps? Jul 15 07:46:37 as he walks he keeps drinking and the mor ehe has drunk, the less he is able to walk Jul 15 07:46:41 ChaosEagle, we'll see what happens. it looks like I'll have to deal with the accelerometers at a pretty low level at this point... hopefully it doesn't balloon into too much work. also, I can't find docs on using the GPU :/ Jul 15 07:46:54 ieathlint: have anyway to view pdf? I can't find xpdf in opkg Jul 15 07:46:57 nullpuppy: code optimization during runtime Jul 15 07:47:26 walrustown: oh, okay - yeah, maybe someone should first write an easy interface/lib for the accelerometers Jul 15 07:47:28 hmmm Jul 15 07:47:44 "poppler - 0.6.4-r0 - Poppler is a PDF rendering library based on the xpdf-3.0 code base." ... but indeed no actual pdf viewer Jul 15 07:47:59 ChaosEagle, I think I'm going to do that. Someone else suggested writing an X11 driver, but I don't know X, so it will probably be a reaaaally simple lib Jul 15 07:48:05 did anyone manage to boot qtopia from SD, btw? Jul 15 07:48:16 walrustown: neat! =) Jul 15 07:48:33 ChaosEagle, I hope so. We'll see how I feel about it after a week or so! Jul 15 07:48:37 I guess I need to brush up on my C at some point, but... GTK+ looks so intimidating -.- Jul 15 07:49:06 yeah, gtk is evil Jul 15 07:49:08 I think all C++ class frameworks are intimidating Jul 15 07:49:27 hmm... is python an alternative to write simple gui apps? Jul 15 07:49:34 the accelerometers are documented quite well on the wiki... they seem very simple to use Jul 15 07:49:51 yeah, python gtk is simpler, i can attest to that Jul 15 07:49:53 Yeah, shouldn't be too bad Jul 15 07:49:59 I was thinking of writing a frontend for iwlist/iwconfig/ifconfing to make wardriving/walking possible ;) Jul 15 07:50:14 cool, than I guess I'll try learning python now ;) Jul 15 07:50:20 nullpuppy: runtime compilation does checks on code thats used often and does inlining etc on most used parts Jul 15 07:50:46 do it! Jul 15 07:50:48 wont be possible for precompiled code Jul 15 07:50:51 gtk isn't evil, it's C that is evil, gtk's native api is just incidental. Pygtk is fine indeed :] Jul 15 07:50:57 ChaosEagle, yeah, you could do that in a few hours if you know a bit of c/c++ Jul 15 07:51:27 no7, the compiler does that Jul 15 07:51:42 java just added that as a feature to make it faster Jul 15 07:51:43 ieatlint: Yeah, as a command line app, sure - but I didn't learn gtk yet, and looking at the tutorials, I don't feel like it, either... :/ Jul 15 07:52:00 the developers should inline important stuff by using a profiler anyways Jul 15 07:52:01 ChaosEagle, i mostly gave up on gtk's c api Jul 15 07:52:11 as mjr says, pygtk is quite simple Jul 15 07:52:18 it reminds me of ncurses Jul 15 07:52:20 ieatlint: for native code, you cant optimize all parts of it to that degree Jul 15 07:52:28 *nods* Jul 15 07:52:44 no7, g++ -O3 Jul 15 07:53:01 are the relevant libs available in openmoko? Jul 15 07:53:02 no7, --march=whatever -sse2 Jul 15 07:53:05 no7, yeah, gcc optimises the code heavily Jul 15 07:53:05 i.e. pygtk Jul 15 07:53:12 walrustown still, dont think it would work, huge code would be produced during runtime it would be slower Jul 15 07:53:15 no7: how much do you know about compilers? Jul 15 07:53:21 ChaosEagle, opkg install python-pygtk Jul 15 07:53:26 how much c/c++ code have you written? Jul 15 07:53:27 no7, try beating a compiler that optimises for *the exact architecture the code is running on* Jul 15 07:53:28 cool, thanks Jul 15 07:53:31 nullpuppy: actually to be honest, little-.- Jul 15 07:53:59 but i get some points of code optimization Jul 15 07:54:08 with gcc, you can write the same piece of code 5 different ways and end up with an identical binary Jul 15 07:54:15 ieatlint: And which version is it? The one for GTK2? Jul 15 07:54:37 python-pygtk - 2.10.4-ml8 - Python GTK+ 2.10.x Bindings Jul 15 07:54:37 no7: without knowing how a compiler optimizes, or how things end up afterwords, its hard to really make a decent comparison Jul 15 07:54:40 ieatlink: the compiler wont be able to tell which parts of the code will be used most during runtime Jul 15 07:54:51 ieatlint: okay, thanks! Jul 15 07:54:56 no7, that's the developer's job Jul 15 07:55:04 no7, oh, you mean on a per-user basis? like.. i generally press this button the most? Jul 15 07:55:17 walrusteam, impractical for larger projects Jul 15 07:55:23 town Jul 15 07:55:29 larger projects rarely use java Jul 15 07:55:29 no7, I don't want a runtime analyzing my code while it's running in production.... I want *my code* running in production Jul 15 07:55:51 no7, have you worked on a larger project? it's not impractical, it's called oprofile Jul 15 07:55:52 ieatlint: rarely but that doesnt mean anything. Jul 15 07:56:04 we have some huge java applications here in production. Jul 15 07:56:28 well, as i said, i speak from my experiences, and more notably, my opinions Jul 15 07:56:44 I speak from the absolute truth that has been passed down to me from God Jul 15 07:56:51 so i'm not trying to claim what i say is absolute fact Jul 15 07:56:53 :D Jul 15 07:57:01 walrustown, there you go Jul 15 07:57:04 god made me Jul 15 07:57:07 so how can i be wrong? Jul 15 07:57:09 I'm basically the Pope of software Jul 15 07:57:14 are you saying god did a half-assed job? Jul 15 07:57:27 heresy!!11eleven! Jul 15 07:57:44 God has a drinking problem, maybe he was a little wasted when he made you Jul 15 07:58:06 well, that explains where i got that problem from Jul 15 07:58:16 here i thought it was because i'm of irish descent Jul 15 07:58:28 well who did you think created the irish!? Jul 15 07:58:35 the big drunk bearded dude in the sky Jul 15 07:58:48 yeah, rumour has it he gave us whiskey so we wouldn't rule the world Jul 15 07:59:29 scotch wiskey > irish wiskey Jul 15 07:59:32 there I said it Jul 15 07:59:41 whisky is scotch, whiskey is irish Jul 15 07:59:54 *hangs his head low with shame* Jul 15 08:00:00 Touche Jul 15 08:00:07 really good whiskey is fantastic Jul 15 08:00:25 but a $40 bottle of whiskey can't compare to a $40 bottle of scotch, i concede :( Jul 15 08:00:43 well that's it, to the liquor cabinet I go Jul 15 08:00:45 ieatlint: theres no reason for drinking whiskey but for its alcohol content Jul 15 08:01:00 no7, you are demoted Jul 15 08:01:03 you've not had the right whiskey then :) Jul 15 08:02:00 i like 18 year bushmills... but i tend to drink cheaper, i've 18 year glenlivet.. Jul 15 08:02:24 I like the 18 year glenlivet a lot Jul 15 08:02:36 yep, tis very decent Jul 15 08:02:38 On the cheaper side, Jameson is good Jul 15 08:02:43 I think that's irish Jul 15 08:02:47 yep Jul 15 08:02:50 it's ok Jul 15 08:02:59 walrustown undoubtedly whiskey tastes great to many people Jul 15 08:03:27 whiskey is the only hard alcohol i'll drink straight... and no, it's not to get drunk... Jul 15 08:03:35 it's an acquired taste Jul 15 08:03:43 if you like things its also because of anticipation Jul 15 08:04:32 hm hard to explain Jul 15 08:05:07 uh, no, i understand the concept Jul 15 08:05:08 well I'm out, you guys have a good night (or whatever) Jul 15 08:05:13 but is that bad? Jul 15 08:05:19 goodnight Jul 15 08:05:45 ieatlint: guess its some kind of human concept Jul 15 08:05:49 neither good nor bad Jul 15 08:08:29 maybe related to thins like if you like java, or c Jul 15 08:09:08 to an objective observer, both wont be appealing if hes not into programming Jul 15 08:09:32 anyways..... Jul 15 08:23:26 aww, crap Jul 15 08:23:38 seems like my laptop hdd is dying... Jul 15 08:23:47 I'm off ^^;;; Jul 15 08:27:35 What email client does openmoko use? Jul 15 08:29:31 It doesn't. Jul 15 08:29:51 so there is no way to currently get e-mail on the openmoko? Jul 15 08:29:54 other than webmail? Jul 15 08:32:46 Thats odd to me, I haven't seen a phone without an email clien in years Jul 15 08:33:30 the nokia n810 has an ok one, that should be easy to port Jul 15 08:33:37 You work in Nokia's development department? Jul 15 08:34:13 is there any web browser for qtopia? Jul 15 08:34:16 Nope Jul 15 08:34:22 nope?! Jul 15 08:34:30 seems like a pretty big oversight. hmm. Jul 15 08:34:32 muhoo: that was to ath Jul 15 08:34:43 freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * rf8ea76150e7e 10/test/test.py: More tests Jul 15 08:34:45 sontek: sorry Jul 15 08:35:05 muhoo: there is a very basic webkit-browser and minimo Jul 15 08:35:47 qtopia 4.4 supposedly has a browser, but 4.3 is all that's out for the freerunner at the moment Jul 15 08:36:12 Am new to OpenMoko. Just booted my brand new GTA01 on Qemu under Debian Lenny. :) Jul 15 08:36:23 so what are the default apps that come on the moko? web browser? jabber client? anything to open documents/spreadsheets? terminal/ssh client? rdp/vnc client? Jul 15 08:36:46 sontek, i don't think you understand what it all is really Jul 15 08:36:52 Karrde: thanks. webkit is the gtk one, right? is minimo the qt one? Jul 15 08:37:02 sontek: software is not ready yet: the phone is for developers. Jul 15 08:37:18 the freerunner is hardware Jul 15 08:37:25 ath: I thought GTA01 was for developers and the freerunner was for consumers Jul 15 08:37:31 there are 4 different linux-based images you can install on it Jul 15 08:37:44 it will be Jul 15 08:37:57 GTA01 was mostly for hardware hackers. GTA02 hardware seems pretty stable, but the software is nowhere near ready Jul 15 08:38:03 GTA01 was hardware beta, Freerunner is complete hardware but no software yet. Jul 15 08:38:22 Now how do I switch off the GTA01 running in Qemu? Jul 15 08:38:28 that makes sense Jul 15 08:38:30 gta03 will be for consumers, gta02 will be acceptable for consumers probably around the time gta03 is out :P Jul 15 08:38:49 I ordered one, i'll just have to keep my treo around for day to day use Jul 15 08:39:08 but since it runs Linux, porting apps that run native linux wont be hard, will it? Jul 15 08:39:11 like, frinstance, the openmoko image has a web browser, but is missing a ton of other apps, but the qtopia has just about every app you'd want... except a web browser Jul 15 08:39:24 so an app like evolution could be ported? Jul 15 08:39:25 *sigh* Jul 15 08:39:50 right now i'm getting this: Jul 15 08:39:51 * Failed to download http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/all/Packages.gz, error 0 Jul 15 08:39:58 someone updating something right now? Jul 15 08:42:59 anyone got a binary package of minimo for the freerunner anywhere? Jul 15 08:43:13 muhoo: is it easy to switch between the images? Jul 15 08:43:22 muhoo: like have 3 sd cards, one for each? Jul 15 08:43:35 sontek: that'd work. or put one in flash, another on sd Jul 15 08:43:47 * muhoo has qtopia in flash an is sticking with it like glue Jul 15 08:43:56 sontek, in theory, yes Jul 15 08:44:14 i'm determined to get a working smartphone with some useful apps Jul 15 08:44:18 switching sd cards require removing the battery and sim card Jul 15 08:44:42 muhoo: Are phone functions working for you on qtopia? :) Jul 15 08:44:43 if i can get qterminal installed somehow, and find a binary of minimo, i'm done Jul 15 08:44:56 leinirAWAY: very basic phone, sure. Jul 15 08:45:04 the current qtopia image includes qterminal Jul 15 08:45:13 but US$400 is a lot to spend for the functions of a $20 phone :-( Jul 15 08:45:13 muhoo: when you say qtopia, you don't mean ASU, right? :) Jul 15 08:45:26 no, i mean the qtopia image from july 14th Jul 15 08:45:30 right :) Jul 15 08:45:59 cos i tried on Friday and didn't have sms and voice - i shall have to give it another shot :) Jul 15 08:46:00 ieatlint: where? it's not in the default image, and i'm doing an opkg list and not seeing it Jul 15 08:46:16 muhoo, are you looking in applications? Jul 15 08:46:27 i'm on the 7/13 image Jul 15 08:46:37 hm.. compiling on the FR is slow business Jul 15 08:46:47 hm, qpe eats 100% cpu (with ASU image) when a sd-card is inserted. it's fine without a sd-card. does anybode else face that problem? Jul 15 08:46:48 i'm on the 7/14 image. there's no qterminal Jul 15 08:47:00 from the home screen, i click on the qtopia logo, then select the 4 boxes thing (bottom, 2nd from the right) Jul 15 08:47:12 "Terminal" is on the list Jul 15 08:47:12 also, is there any special opkg.conf magic i need to do in order to get the good qtopia stuff? Jul 15 08:47:14 muhoo: you are lucky you only paid $400 ;) They doubld charged me so I got the luck of paying $800 for the little bit of functionality ;) Jul 15 08:48:06 well due to a bulk buy snafu i ended up paying US$500, but that's a different story Jul 15 08:48:18 and one i don't really want to get into Jul 15 08:48:48 also, is there a SIP phone app for qtopia? Jul 15 08:48:53 Yeay! Wireless on my freerunner works! Jul 15 08:48:53 can one use the FR without battery (e.g. usb-powered?) Jul 15 08:49:22 I'd like to keep running GTK apps, so the best bet would probably to to use the FSO stack? Jul 15 08:49:36 since both qtopia and default are being phased out? Jul 15 08:50:00 beni_: probably not, it wont boot on usb without battery and they say dont pull battery out with usb plugged in Jul 15 08:50:03 beni_, no from usb Jul 15 08:50:08 but you can from the wall charger Jul 15 08:50:21 usb doesn't provide enough power in my experience Jul 15 08:50:44 the SD cards in the FR are microSD, right? no sdhc? Jul 15 08:50:54 wow, the qtopia phone app already supports SIP? http://doc.trolltech.com/qtopia2.2/html/voip-integration.html Jul 15 08:51:06 that'd be sweet Jul 15 08:51:16 minimo ipkg binaries http://www.ginguppin.de/node/16 Jul 15 08:53:03 ieatlint: thanks! Jul 15 08:53:37 np Jul 15 08:53:47 thank whomever compiled and posted it Jul 15 08:54:02 i am updating the wiki with that link now.. Jul 15 08:55:21 ok quick question. how do i install a .qpk package? Jul 15 08:55:34 i found one for qterminal! but it's not an .opk, it's a .qpk Jul 15 08:55:54 uhm, i dunno, there's a qtopia package manager in the qtopia settings Jul 15 08:56:23 is there an equivalent to the "alien" package in debain to convert a qpk to an opk? Jul 15 08:56:35 the qtopia package manager is the suck Jul 15 08:56:41 Freerunner sure does boot slow...fortunately we won't be rebooting it much once the software is figured out Jul 15 08:57:12 tessier: there's a bug open on that, IIRC. the task is to replace the heavyweight sysvinit with some kind of linuxrc or lighteweight init clone Jul 15 08:57:55 I like the sysv init. I don't see how that could be taking so long. It's hard to tell what it's doing all that time. Jul 15 08:58:08 muhoo: didn't you find qterminal in the official image from 7/14? Jul 15 08:58:19 andyfrommk: no. it's not there Jul 15 08:58:30 sysvinit on my eeepc takes almost no time, and that's a 633mhz cpu... Jul 15 08:59:13 ah. Jul 15 08:59:23 opkg will install a qpk, looks like! Jul 15 08:59:26 muhoo: did you get the 7/14 image from here http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/index.php Jul 15 08:59:38 help Jul 15 08:59:39 Failed to download http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/libxt6_1.0.5-r1_armv4t.ipk, error 0 * Jul 15 08:59:43 why? Jul 15 09:00:10 is the phone online? Jul 15 09:00:41 andyfrommk: no. i got it from here: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080714/ Jul 15 09:00:51 and, aw crap, now there's a july 15th image Jul 15 09:00:59 note you can always download that url, put it onto the moko and run opkg directly on the file Jul 15 09:01:24 the phone otherwise needs to be online, and the default route needs to be fixed Jul 15 09:01:41 ieatlint: mine? sure. Jul 15 09:01:50 if you type "route" and it shows default 192.168.0.200, you need to run "route del default gw 192.168.0.200" Jul 15 09:02:46 by default, it tries to route packets through the usb interface under the assumption your computer is 192.168.0.200 and is doing nat Jul 15 09:03:00 ah, networking problem Jul 15 09:03:40 dns, looks like. i rebooted my phone without running my script to set up the resolv.conf properly Jul 15 09:03:44 thanks Jul 15 09:03:48 * muhoo is too tired now Jul 15 09:04:00 yeah, it's a fun phone :P Jul 15 09:04:47 why does Xglamo try to open tty255?? Jul 15 09:05:02 because it hates you Jul 15 09:05:03 it's exciting. i love when projects just get up a head of steam Jul 15 09:05:05 Anyone know how to zoom out in the web browser? Jul 15 09:05:11 and everything moves so quickly Jul 15 09:05:18 anyone know which software can be use for pdf Jul 15 09:05:32 which web browser? Jul 15 09:05:33 I've got my wireless working but when browsing the web everything is so big I can't see much of any page on the screen. Jul 15 09:07:03 clearly someone needs to compile xpdf for arm Jul 15 09:09:29 I added in the qwerty keyboard mentioned on the getting started page. This thing is so small it's just as hard to use as the numpad keyboard. Jul 15 09:09:29 ecraven: tty225! wow Jul 15 09:10:36 seems that's a -1 gone wrong ;) Jul 15 09:10:51 hm.. how do we disable the mouse pointer? Jul 15 09:11:12 awesome Jul 15 09:11:24 minimo works, and it rules Jul 15 09:11:46 that on qtopia? Jul 15 09:11:50 muhoo Jul 15 09:11:50 yerp Jul 15 09:12:07 the 7/15? Jul 15 09:12:18 qtopia 7/14 with minimo from that german dude's website Jul 15 09:12:35 and liberal use of "opkg upgrade" Jul 15 09:12:43 lol, yeah Jul 15 09:12:46 i'm not a fan of opkg Jul 15 09:12:53 really? i like it a lot Jul 15 09:12:58 * muhoo is a debian guy Jul 15 09:13:15 * ieatlint is not Jul 15 09:13:35 should Xglamo provide glx? Jul 15 09:13:50 it's a apt-get lite. ipkg was created for use in the debian installer, then it got used by the openwrt project, and then it got turned into opkg and qpkg apparenly Jul 15 09:16:54 Hi. I would be interested whether any Openmoko developer is working together (or on) the Mozilla Mobile project. To be precise: I'd be interested whether there is any efforts to get the mobile Mozilla or XULRunner running on Openmoko. Jul 15 09:19:07 JOSF: isn't minimo the mobile mozilla? there's already a package for it, it's been ported Jul 15 09:19:31 i just installed and ran it about 15 seconds ago :- Jul 15 09:19:34 :-) Jul 15 09:20:32 no Jul 15 09:20:42 minimo is severely outdated Jul 15 09:20:52 it was never intended to be a product to release Jul 15 09:21:10 mozilla mobile is what is being developed, using parts of minimo as a base Jul 15 09:21:32 ah Jul 15 09:21:44 "severely outdated" as it may be, it works great Jul 15 09:21:50 browses websites, can't beat that Jul 15 09:21:51 and i am sure that openmoko is an intended platform for it, but i personally know of no official cooperation/collaboration Jul 15 09:22:03 muhoo: That is good news. However, it is not Minimo. Minimo never has been finished and it was declared as abandoned by its main developer quite some time ago. Jul 15 09:22:15 Also, it was designed mainly for Windows Mobile. Jul 15 09:22:25 The Mozilla company has started another effort. Jul 15 09:22:30 yeah, it has kind of a windoze-y look to it Jul 15 09:22:34 It's got full backing. Jul 15 09:22:48 nice. thanks Jul 15 09:23:07 ok, how do i install a qpk package on an openmoko? Jul 15 09:23:21 it turns out they're totally different than opk's Jul 15 09:23:23 openmoko isn't an os Jul 15 09:23:56 emacs is an OS :-P Jul 15 09:24:20 It would be nice to have a fully running Mozilla (the platform) with the Python XPCOM on Openmoko. :) Jul 15 09:24:39 "Use your Qtopia device with a network connection to download individual ipkgs, or copy the software packages to a cf or sd card. Then use the Add/Remove software application to install from Documents." Jul 15 09:24:51 ieatlint: linky? Jul 15 09:24:56 i realise that says ipkgs, but perhaps try and put the qpk in the documents Jul 15 09:25:01 http://www.qtopia.net/modules/xoopsfaq/index.php?cat_id=3#24 Jul 15 09:25:04 thx Jul 15 09:25:22 ( ~/Documents ) Jul 15 09:25:43 i don't know where the "Add/Remove software application" is though Jul 15 09:25:53 unfortunately, qtopai lacks the ability to install software locally, i.e. without being in a feed Jul 15 09:26:14 what do you mean by "in a feed"? Jul 15 09:26:24 on a web server Jul 15 09:26:27 I have read in the Wiki, that the Freerunner is not capable of running MPEG4 at full speed. Is that because of the hardware or the software? Jul 15 09:26:35 you could install a web server :) Jul 15 09:26:39 lpotter, might you know the address of the official feed? Jul 15 09:26:51 i see where to put in the address, but i know not the address Jul 15 09:26:58 ieatlint: there's no "~/Documents" Jul 15 09:27:05 root@om-gta02:~# pwd Jul 15 09:27:06 /home/root Jul 15 09:27:13 root@om-gta02:~# ls Jul 15 09:27:13 Applications Settings packages Jul 15 09:27:23 hmmm, my memory must've failed me Jul 15 09:27:48 ieatlint: I havent gotten anything in the feed yet. Jul 15 09:28:02 lpotter: is there a hack/workaround for, say, installing the qpe-qterminal.qpk on an openmoko phone with qtopia image? Jul 15 09:28:25 there is a new image at qtopia.net with terms app Jul 15 09:28:27 muhoo, type "file qpe-qterminal.qpk" Jul 15 09:28:37 it's a tarball Jul 15 09:28:47 with a control file, and another tarball inside of it Jul 15 09:28:51 like russian dolls Jul 15 09:29:02 hah Jul 15 09:29:28 yes, but just untaring that will not install it, as an entry needs to get placed in the database Jul 15 09:30:01 lpotter: Using the image from Thursday last week i could neither make calls nor send or receive sms - do you know anything about that? :) (as in, was it a glitch that happened to me, a known problem, fixed, not fixed... ;) ) Jul 15 09:30:03 oh i see Jul 15 09:30:04 JOSF: i think it would be because of both Jul 15 09:30:21 mpeg4 is complicated Jul 15 09:30:54 actually it's because of the system bus Jul 15 09:31:04 lpotter: somehow the opkgs manage to do all that Jul 15 09:31:26 so there *is* a way to install qtopia packages without a qpk Jul 15 09:31:32 the gta02 has this chip http://www.smediatech.com/product3362.htm Jul 15 09:31:39 which includes a hardware mpeg4 codec Jul 15 09:31:42 muhoo: if you are talking regualr qtopia, it still needs to be placed in the database. otherwise qtopia wont see it Jul 15 09:32:04 lpotter: i'm using the qtopia-x11-foo stuff in openmoko Jul 15 09:32:07 but the bus that that chip is on, is the same bus that the lcd and the sd card are on... to read, decode and display it exceeds the bus's bandwidth Jul 15 09:32:16 (At least, it does at vga resolution) Jul 15 09:32:38 that opkg installer is doing *something* to make qtopia's qpe thingie happy Jul 15 09:32:54 because it shows up in the launcher, instantly Jul 15 09:33:05 muhoo: You misunderstood my question previously, then - you are not running the qtopia image, you are running the ASU pre-release image :) Jul 15 09:33:13 it was my impression that at vga resolution the chip is simply too feeble to decode, rotate and scael Jul 15 09:33:21 that's not a bus issue anymore Jul 15 09:33:26 and no the lcd is not on the same bus Jul 15 09:33:39 leinirAWAY: i'm running this image: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080714/Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080714-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 Jul 15 09:33:44 that exact one Jul 15 09:33:45 scale Jul 15 09:33:49 muhoo: Right, that's ASU :) Jul 15 09:33:50 mjr, my info is from the mailing list, and i am definitely not an informed party beyond that Jul 15 09:33:53 Not qtopia :) Jul 15 09:33:55 leinir: !!! Jul 15 09:34:05 arizona state university? Jul 15 09:34:19 Hmm? Ehrm... no, Aalborg University ;) Jul 15 09:34:23 muhoo, that's the ASU Jul 15 09:34:37 {April,August} Software Update :) Jul 15 09:34:49 ah, hmm. i didn't know that. leinir: thanks Jul 15 09:35:00 the qtopia images come from qtopia.net Jul 15 09:35:21 So, now that we've found out about that, your confusion should be eased slightly - lpotter is talking about the actual qtopia image, not ASU :) Jul 15 09:35:21 <`pwgen`> Aaloborg univerity ? Jul 15 09:35:22 oh. wow. that'd explain why i'm so confused. i thought i was running something totally different. Jul 15 09:35:35 lpotter: sorry Jul 15 09:35:40 0 good fixes and 168 fails. The log says a lot of "NMEA unknown msg*58" and a few entries with some other stuff. Jul 15 09:35:41 <`pwgen`> leinir , u ar from aalborg ? Jul 15 09:35:48 `pwgen`: i am indeed :) Jul 15 09:35:59 I checked my GPS antenna connector earlier and it is solid. Something is definitely wrong with the GPS. Jul 15 09:36:03 <`pwgen`> cool i will move in 2 month to aaloborg ... Jul 15 09:36:11 tessier, ignore the unknown messages Jul 15 09:36:24 `pwgen`: Really? Nifty :) We shall have to go out for a brew :) Jul 15 09:36:26 but yeah, if the GPG messages rerport just a bunch of 0s and 9s, it means no fix Jul 15 09:36:38 muhoo: no worries Jul 15 09:36:39 <`pwgen`> sure .. Jul 15 09:36:39 ieatlint: Yeah, 0's and 9's Jul 15 09:37:22 if you can manage to get a fix with the gps, the fix will be solid Jul 15 09:37:31 it will keep the fix Jul 15 09:37:46 but getting the fix is a very difficult feat Jul 15 09:38:01 I stood out in the back yard and tried. No luck. Jul 15 09:38:08 how long? Jul 15 09:38:14 a minute or two Jul 15 09:38:19 lpotter: So, know anything about that thing with telephony not working at all for me? :) (someone else confirmed it, randomly, so i'm not entirely alone ;) ) Jul 15 09:38:20 no where near enough Jul 15 09:38:25 i get a fix after around 300 secs when i am outside Jul 15 09:38:26 no gps can get a cold fix in a min or two Jul 15 09:38:39 ieatlint: My TomTom can. Jul 15 09:38:46 What do you mean cold fix? Jul 15 09:38:47 tessier: for the first fix you need to stay stationary for about fifteen minutes Jul 15 09:38:48 Not a cold start Jul 15 09:38:49 i doubt it's a cold fix Jul 15 09:38:59 morning Jul 15 09:39:01 cold fix means the gps has no idea where it is Jul 15 09:39:02 Karrde: Wow, really? I guess I'll just leave it out there then. Jul 15 09:39:09 give or take few minutes Jul 15 09:39:21 ok, stepping back a bit. how would i get the qterminal to run on the asu? Jul 15 09:39:37 my garmin hiking gps can get a fix in under 30 seconds if i'm near where i turned it off Jul 15 09:39:46 i have a qpk. i'm trying ot figure out how to get it goign on an opk based system Jul 15 09:39:51 a cold fix from it took 12 minutes when i timed it earlier today Jul 15 09:39:54 if you are able to feed assist data to the gps, then the fix time should be reduced to few minutes Jul 15 09:39:59 muhoo: you wold have to compile it for qtopia -x11 Jul 15 09:40:08 <`pwgen`> leinir: you now christian jensen ? Jul 15 09:40:30 lpotter: hmm. thanks. ouch. maybe someone's done that already then. Jul 15 09:41:07 muhoo, there are x11 terminal apps Jul 15 09:41:30 * tessier just put the phone out on top of the car in the driveway Jul 15 09:41:39 I'll leave it there for 15 and then 30 minutes and see what happens. Jul 15 09:42:04 ieatlint: yeah, there are tons of them. but how do i get them to show up in the qtopia launcher? and to use a keyboard that has all the control characters? Jul 15 09:42:09 tessier, the phone will not get the best reception that way Jul 15 09:42:11 ieatlint: So once it has a fix it will remember where it is and next time I use the gps app it will be faster? Jul 15 09:42:27 ieatlint: Where would you suggest? Jul 15 09:42:28 one thing i read said to put it in a ceramic mug, heh Jul 15 09:42:40 I can put it on the ground. Jul 15 09:42:43 a driveway is fine, it's the flat on it's back that's not optimal Jul 15 09:42:49 ah Jul 15 09:42:55 I'll see if I can stand it up then Jul 15 09:43:00 and no, it won't be faster Jul 15 09:43:12 the chip supports that concept, but the software doesn't -- yet Jul 15 09:43:28 is there a decent keyboard for ASU that'll let me do control, esc, /, |, and the like? Jul 15 09:43:31 ascii Jul 15 09:43:35 qwerty Jul 15 09:44:06 ieatlint: So the GPS is pretty useless right now... Jul 15 09:44:13 yep Jul 15 09:44:27 `pwgen`: ehrm... the name doesn't ring a bell, i'm afraid :) Jul 15 09:44:27 nope Jul 15 09:45:01 tessier: the GPS has been pumping out zeroes for days. no fixes. Jul 15 09:45:32 gpspipe -r 127.0.0.1 2947| awk -F, '/\$GPGGA/ {print (substr($3,0,2) + (substr($3,3) / 60.0)) $4, (s Jul 15 09:45:37 ubstr($5,0,3) + (substr($5,4) / 60.0)) $6}' Jul 15 09:46:20 <`pwgen`> ok allborg isn`t as small as i thought , Jul 15 09:46:31 <`pwgen`> s/allborg/aalborg/ Jul 15 09:46:31 `pwgen` meant: ok aalborg isn`t as small as i thought , Jul 15 09:48:54 * swc|666 will have his FR in 4hrs 12mins Jul 15 09:49:00 leinir: not to osure., it works for me Jul 15 09:51:09 leinir, did you upgrade to the latest image? Jul 15 09:51:41 where is it? Jul 15 09:52:30 i just need a working, fully-functional keyboard applet for qtopia/ASU that'll work with an x11 terminal Jul 15 09:55:07 WOOHOO! Jul 15 09:55:09 GPS works! Jul 15 09:55:24 It took nearly 300 seconds but I got good fixes. Jul 15 09:55:36 And the location is correct. It shows me my street name etc. Jul 15 09:55:48 lucky duck Jul 15 09:56:00 tessier: wooo! Jul 15 09:56:18 that just on top of your car then? Jul 15 09:56:34 ieatlint: Yeah. I propped it up on a windshield wiper so the GPS antenna is up. Jul 15 09:56:59 hm hope it wont always be that slow to grab a fix Jul 15 09:57:00 well yay :) Jul 15 09:57:13 kd8ikt: Me too. Jul 15 09:57:17 that sounds like what you'd expect without assist Jul 15 09:57:18 tessier: do you have an external gps antenna? Jul 15 09:57:20 And I hope it eventually gets turn by turn directions etc. Jul 15 09:57:30 ozzloy: No. This is with internal GPS. Jul 15 09:57:33 well that's a map issue Jul 15 09:57:39 \0/ Jul 15 09:57:46 mjr: Yes but it's still software. Jul 15 09:57:58 And it seems like the GPS could get a fix much faster if it didn't always start cold. Jul 15 09:57:59 emacsen: Not yet, no - i'm about to :) Jul 15 09:58:02 osm is currently suboptimal for car routing, not expressing many restrictions Jul 15 09:58:03 lpotter: ok, thanks :) Jul 15 09:58:18 mjr: osm? Jul 15 09:58:21 openstreetmap Jul 15 09:58:25 ah Jul 15 09:58:35 mjr: Is that what tangogps uses? Jul 15 09:58:39 yes Jul 15 09:58:41 gnight Jul 15 09:58:42 leinir, I've been mostly happy Jul 15 09:58:45 tessier: congrats Jul 15 09:58:49 emacsen: Brilliant :) Jul 15 09:58:50 (per default, anyway) Jul 15 09:58:51 ozzloy: Thanks. night Jul 15 10:00:09 tango doesn't do routing at all (currently), http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Rana might be something to look at if you want to try routing based on osm out but I don't know how fast it is... navit is another that does routing Jul 15 10:04:40 This friends feature is pretty cool. I should register. Jul 15 10:05:40 how do we hide the mouse pointer on the neo? Jul 15 10:07:47 When I do a "opkg update" I get "Signature check failed". Is that important? Jul 15 10:07:59 so what exactly *is* the "ASU"? is it a dead end? Jul 15 10:08:28 April was a long way ago, and August hasn't come up yet, but I'm wondering if this branch i'm on has any future Jul 15 10:08:42 And I get a "Failed to download http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/Packages.sig, error 404" Jul 15 10:08:45 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions Jul 15 10:08:55 muhoo: It's the image that will be shipping on the proper mass market release - problem is sort of that the man writing it doesn't actually like what he's being forced to write for The Man, so to speak ;) Jul 15 10:09:33 Luckily, however, anything written for it will eventually help when he begins writing a new stack based in part on his work there, and on the FSO image :) Jul 15 10:09:35 so the future is qtopia, using the openmoko packaging system? Jul 15 10:10:16 ok, i'm getting it now Jul 15 10:10:18 The pure qtopia image is quite a different beast - primarily due to the fact it doesn't use an X server to show what's on screen Jul 15 10:10:28 ASU is the business thing. "give us something that works, goddammit!" Jul 15 10:10:38 Not entirely... Jul 15 10:11:01 wheras FSO looks like the academic purist thing Jul 15 10:11:05 They're making some interesting decisions on usability that clash quite heftily with the rest of the way the platform works Jul 15 10:11:32 muhoo, well not just qtopia... they're porting qtopia to X for example Jul 15 10:11:33 they, meaning trolltech? or the ASU team? or the FSO team? Jul 15 10:12:07 muhoo: OpenMoko - they are telling raster what to do, and he just has to do it, basically :) Jul 15 10:12:14 muhoo, ASU is Jul 15 10:12:20 So, is there something going to be done with the MPEG4 problem for GTA-03 ? Jul 15 10:12:55 (to be honest, I do not plan to watch MPEG4 on a mobile phone, but it may be got for marketing reasons NOT to have reviews moaning about this) Jul 15 10:13:09 hah Jul 15 10:13:27 I am much more interested in keeping the velocity sensors in the coming versions of the hardware :) Jul 15 10:13:36 the wiki page for ASU says telephony is "between unstable and no", but it works perfectly for me Jul 15 10:13:37 qtopia was already ported to x by trolltech Jul 15 10:13:49 sms seems to work fine too Jul 15 10:13:50 so far Jul 15 10:13:51 Imagine: Shaking your mobile creates random numbers for your keypair ;-)) Jul 15 10:14:22 muhoo: The information on there is already outdated - development is quite rapid ;) Jul 15 10:14:31 Feel free to update it :) Jul 15 10:14:47 Or games like those I played hwn I was a child: They had holes and little balls and you neede to move the whole thing so, that all balls found a hole to rest in. Jul 15 10:15:54 my main concern as of this moment, other than when my InvisibleShield will arrive, is that since the move to qtopia and away from EDS and other gnome technologies, the issue of synchronization Jul 15 10:16:05 everything else is a known bug Jul 15 10:16:33 For all gnome gets wrong, they seem to throw a lot of effort into stuff like that Jul 15 10:17:05 Has anyone tested InvissibleShield? The full body protection or just the screen protection? Jul 15 10:17:20 TeNoVi, wait for tonight when mine is set to arrive Jul 15 10:17:26 ok Jul 15 10:17:34 tonight = ~14 hours Jul 15 10:17:35 emacsen, how much was it? Jul 15 10:17:52 TAsnn, $24 US I believe, something like that Jul 15 10:18:03 cool not that pricy :) Jul 15 10:18:13 got a link to one suitable for the moko? Jul 15 10:18:31 for a sheet of plastic, it seemed a little high, but compared to the device, no, not high Jul 15 10:18:47 if you order, I have two, count em two coupons for 20% off Jul 15 10:19:01 emacsen, it's not just plastic! it also has glue on it. Jul 15 10:19:02 ;0 Jul 15 10:19:05 at least its cut to fit the neo Jul 15 10:19:07 http://www.zagg.com/invisibleshield/cell-phone/openmoko Jul 15 10:19:17 Do they have free worldwide shipment? Jul 15 10:19:26 man it is out of date that wiki Jul 15 10:19:30 ASU definitely has python Jul 15 10:19:40 the system wouldn't run without it Jul 15 10:19:48 TeNoVi: at least europe is possible for free Jul 15 10:19:57 muhoo, python is one thing, but AFAIK there are no qtopia bindings in pyqt Jul 15 10:20:02 emacsen, is there a reason why i should want the full body and not just the screen? Jul 15 10:20:19 TAsnn, I have no idea. I don't have mine yet Jul 15 10:20:21 emacsen: how to get the coupons for zagg? Jul 15 10:20:35 TAsnn: Nah, that's more for other, less sturdy devices *cough*iphone*cough* ;) Jul 15 10:20:41 hm.. can i setup distcc so it helps the FR with cross-compiling? Jul 15 10:20:49 flaushy, if you order, there's an area where it says coupon, right at the end. IM me then Jul 15 10:20:53 leinir, exactly what i thought. Jul 15 10:20:55 I'll leave for work in about 40 mins Jul 15 10:21:03 okie thx :) Jul 15 10:21:06 i will get only the screen :) Jul 15 10:21:18 emacsen: what? the wifi app in ASU is written in python with qt bindings Jul 15 10:21:24 emacsen: u have unlimited coupons? Jul 15 10:21:28 muhoo, is it? Jul 15 10:21:31 it's a pretty cool little app too Jul 15 10:21:45 flaushy, no, I have TWO coupons. That is I have one coupon, then another coupon, hence not telling everyone :) Jul 15 10:21:56 emacsen: yep, campwifi.py Jul 15 10:22:01 okie :) Jul 15 10:22:05 thx Jul 15 10:22:16 muhoo, hrm... I asked in #qtopia and was told that the bindings didn't exist. Will have to check Jul 15 10:22:25 muhoo: but there arent any python-qt packages installed Oo Jul 15 10:22:30 neither in the repo Jul 15 10:22:42 emacsen: http://pastebin.com/m65e90834 Jul 15 10:22:44 what does campwifi do? Jul 15 10:23:00 it's "etk" i guess Jul 15 10:23:02 whatever that is Jul 15 10:23:10 oh, enlightenment tool kit Jul 15 10:23:17 finger wifi app? Jul 15 10:23:27 so no qt but enlightenment Jul 15 10:23:31 I'm using the qtopia image Jul 15 10:23:40 wait a minute Jul 15 10:23:50 how many graphical toolkits are on this thing?! Jul 15 10:23:52 1) gtk Jul 15 10:23:57 2) qtopia/qt Jul 15 10:23:58 too manny Jul 15 10:24:01 muhoo, no, gtk is depricated Jul 15 10:24:01 emacsen, you better be here today and tell us how it is :) Jul 15 10:24:01 3) enlightenment Jul 15 10:24:04 Is there an GUI to show and connect to wifi? (Standard openmoko image) Jul 15 10:24:15 3) not all of enlightenment, just etk Jul 15 10:24:27 i gotta know if it does anything to the performance of the touch screen! ;) Jul 15 10:24:30 TeNoVi: yes, in the ASU. it's this little script http://pastebin.com/m65e90834 Jul 15 10:24:43 the coolest thing abotu that script is the wifi.wifi python package, that does all the scanning and connecting Jul 15 10:25:08 the other concern I'd have about python apps, and maybe people will laugh, is if you run N python apps, that's N interpreters Jul 15 10:25:09 has anyone tried distcc with the Freerunner? Jul 15 10:25:15 it's a blast firing up a python interactive interpreter on my PHONE Jul 15 10:25:22 and using that to scan wifi networks :-) Jul 15 10:25:28 opkg update gets me 404's when trying to download the packag lists. It's been doing this all day. Anyone know why? Jul 15 10:25:51 emacsen: i think a lot of it is implemented in shlibs Jul 15 10:25:53 muhoo: It works well? Jul 15 10:26:04 tessier: as well as anything else on an openmoko phone :-) Jul 15 10:26:11 muhoo: I've been wondering how I would find open access points without some sort of discovery software Jul 15 10:26:11 tessier: sure its not just the signatures? Jul 15 10:26:14 lpotter, does this new image from today diddle the glamo the right way? Jul 15 10:26:24 so most of you are using asu? Jul 15 10:26:31 muhoo: How does that script work? Can I just place it in /usr/bin/python and then it just works?.. Sry, I'm not any good with this yet. I've just used Linux a cupple of years :S Jul 15 10:26:34 Tanuva: Positive. I've seen the failed signature checks before. But this time it is getting 404's Jul 15 10:27:01 TeNoVi: just install the ASU image, and you get this for free Jul 15 10:27:15 hmm... Jul 15 10:27:24 TeNoVi: i have NFI if it'll even work on the other images Jul 15 10:27:44 dunno if they have that wifi python lib, or if they have ecore, or etk or whatever prerequisites Jul 15 10:28:50 Well, I've been playing with my phone for 3 hours now. Time for bed. night all Jul 15 10:29:05 3hrs is nothin Jul 15 10:29:17 damn this is so addicting, i've been at it since... OMG Jul 15 10:29:17 muhoo: fso has enlightenment included Jul 15 10:29:32 Tanuva: then it should work, why not, try it and see what happens Jul 15 10:29:38 ut yeah time for me to hit the hay aswell Jul 15 10:29:52 * Tanuva wants qt on the neo >.< Jul 15 10:30:15 time: 03:29AM. time i started messign around with freerunner: 03:40PM Jul 15 10:30:18 12 fucking hours Jul 15 10:30:28 329 am here too Jul 15 10:30:28 muhoo: Is there a way to dualboot images on the Neo? Jul 15 10:30:42 TeNoVi: nfs boot or SD boot, yes Jul 15 10:30:51 muhoo... where r u? Jul 15 10:30:58 swc|666: SFO Jul 15 10:31:15 coo - seattle here Jul 15 10:31:28 muhoo: update works here, just failing to get the sigs Jul 15 10:31:38 pulling an all nighter so i can get my FR @ 7am from my group Jul 15 10:31:38 * TeNoVi is away: I'm busy Jul 15 10:31:38 ah. no. Jul 15 10:31:39 damn Jul 15 10:31:55 IIRC the sigs aren't there anymore, and their absence doesn't break anything Jul 15 10:33:21 but the packages.gz doesnt come either Jul 15 10:33:23 hah! Jul 15 10:33:44 i installed the matchbox keyboard, and i got three instances of them filling up the screen Jul 15 10:33:50 wheep wooow Jul 15 10:33:59 argh, my resolv.conf was still default, why does this damn thing get reset after each reboot on the neo >.< Jul 15 10:34:16 yeah, tricore typing engine :P Jul 15 10:34:54 oh this matchbox keyboard would be PERFECT if i can only get the damn thing to behave with ASU illume Jul 15 10:34:57 now its getting the packages.gz successfully Jul 15 10:39:15 Tanuva, i guess resolv,conf is being reset because you use some kind of dhcp client Jul 15 10:39:38 aint got my neo yet so im not 100% sure about anything, though that's what im thinking. Jul 15 10:39:48 *i think ( Jul 15 10:40:13 nope, everything static here Jul 15 10:40:46 i c. well no clue :) Jul 15 10:41:54 hehe Jul 15 10:43:58 * TeNoVi is back (gone 00:12:20) Jul 15 10:46:44 Hmm. Can anyone confirm the e-mail at the community list: Reason for GPS problems found! Jul 15 10:48:28 TeNoVi: Several people of the German community can Jul 15 10:48:35 interesting... Jul 15 10:48:40 I'm off to test it now Jul 15 10:48:42 i'll give it a try in a few min Jul 15 10:51:31 Dear all , where i can find blue prints , board maps and etc of free runner ? Jul 15 10:54:33 Zoup: They aren't public - OM first wants to make up for the R&D losses Jul 15 10:55:21 abraxa_: interesting , any more info on this ? Jul 15 10:56:45 really? i thought the CAD files were all public? Jul 15 10:57:10 case cad files are Jul 15 10:57:16 ah Jul 15 10:57:33 R&D? Jul 15 10:57:41 Hmm. I've already got contact with sattelits after 200 secs, but no fix :D Thats promising Jul 15 10:57:48 ok all, thanks for your help. going to sleep now Jul 15 10:57:54 Inndoor Jul 15 10:57:56 Tanuva: Research & Development Jul 15 10:57:58 *indoor Jul 15 10:58:02 TeNoVi: I had a fix after 200sec and contact after ~100 - 150 I think Jul 15 10:58:37 * Tanuva needs to find out how to modify the zhone start screen... Jul 15 10:59:28 Tanuva: it's a python script Jul 15 10:59:38 what's the current status of zhone?: calls, sms, contacts? Jul 15 10:59:44 I know, but Im not at all familiar with etk Jul 15 10:59:55 emilis_info: calls only Jul 15 10:59:59 heh Jul 15 11:00:12 I'll wait then Jul 15 11:00:15 :) Jul 15 11:00:17 Yesterday it took me one and a half hour to just get contact indoor... Jul 15 11:00:39 But I still got no fix Jul 15 11:01:49 i'm painfully watching a progress bar from dfu-util so i can go try this :P Jul 15 11:03:28 <`pwgen`> emilis_info: calling / receving calls / partly apm working Jul 15 11:03:50 <`pwgen`> zhone i only a sample for the underlaying framework. Jul 15 11:06:04 <`pwgen`> s/i/is/ Jul 15 11:06:04 `pwgen` meant: zhone is only a sample for the underlaying framework. Jul 15 11:06:16 understood Jul 15 11:06:28 :) Jul 15 11:06:52 I'll wait for calls+sms+contacts and then start using and coding on top of it Jul 15 11:07:22 Because I use FR as my main phone... Jul 15 11:07:23 :) Jul 15 11:07:43 emilis_info: raster is expecting, once ASU is out the door, to move the stack over on FSO and remove the company-infused braindamage :) Jul 15 11:08:38 <`pwgen`> emilis_info: the api is already running, you can code what you will, there are only approches /samples/demos for the frameworkd Jul 15 11:08:54 is ASU what I get if I do opkg update & upgrade? Jul 15 11:09:07 emilis_info, i don't think so. Jul 15 11:09:07 openmoko: 03werner * r4526 10/developers/werner/ahrt/host/tmc/ (python.c tmc.c usbtmc.c): (log message trimmed) Jul 15 11:09:07 openmoko: - usbtmc.c: added support for Rigol-specific protocol variations Jul 15 11:09:07 openmoko: - usbtmc.c (bulk_write): combined "dump", "usb_bulk_write", and error handling Jul 15 11:09:07 openmoko: into a single function Jul 15 11:09:07 openmoko: - python.c (tmc_py_read): return string such that it can also contain NUL Jul 15 11:09:11 openmoko: characters Jul 15 11:09:13 openmoko: - tmc.c (tmc_stop): pthread_join so that we race less when sending new Jul 15 11:09:14 i think you should flash qtopia image.3 Jul 15 11:09:14 i thought FR knows SMS? Jul 15 11:09:49 ok Jul 15 11:13:13 i can confirm the microsd removal fix for gps Jul 15 11:13:38 ieatlint, you have the same issue? Jul 15 11:13:43 went outside, in a non-optimal spot Jul 15 11:13:51 48s TTFF Jul 15 11:13:54 Hmm. I've got gps time after 200 secs, but still no fix after 1188 secs Jul 15 11:13:56 perfekt :) Jul 15 11:14:13 ieatlint, before it didn't work at all? Jul 15 11:14:38 hell, i can see 4 sats from my desk and neither of my other 2 gps recievers can even see 1 Jul 15 11:14:41 openmoko: 03andy 07andy * r8c17f29e2131 10/ (build dfu-uboot): Build scripts Jul 15 11:14:42 openmoko: 03andy 07andy * r1ebdcad82c9c 10/cpu/arm920t/config.mk: stop-internetworking-warning.patch Jul 15 11:14:42 openmoko: 03andy 07andy * r7e36139ffa3b 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: uboot-force-backlight-on.patch Jul 15 11:14:42 openmoko: 03andy 07andy * ra5a7ebd4fb67 10/ (board/neo1973/common/jbt6k74.c drivers/video/smedia3362.c): uboot-fix-lcm-flicker.patch Jul 15 11:14:43 openmoko: 03andy 07andy * r19a477b3d041 10/drivers/misc/pcf50633.c: fix-rtc_get_return.patch Jul 15 11:14:47 openmoko: 03trimarchi 07andy * r4ec60973cf2e 10/cpu/arm920t/s3c24x0/nand_read.c: nand_skip_bad.patch Jul 15 11:14:47 guess the topic is too long Jul 15 11:14:50 openmoko: 03andy 07andy * r78b9f3d35143 10/cpu/arm920t/start.S: add-find-wake-reason.patch Jul 15 11:14:52 openmoko: 03andy 07andy * r96611475add0 10/board/neo1973/gta02/pcf50633.c: uboot-fix-OOCCTL-reset-phase.patch Jul 15 11:14:54 quickdev, "yes" Jul 15 11:14:55 openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r579930fbe92f 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-wait-silently.patch Jul 15 11:14:58 openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r20716cb52c3e 10/board/neo1973/gta02/ (gta02.c pcf50633.c): deadbat-defer-ldo.patch Jul 15 11:14:58 i got a fix with it before once Jul 15 11:15:01 openmoko: 03werner 07andy * rdfed9cc17ea6 10/board/neo1973/gta02/ (gta02.c pcf50633.c): deadbat-soft-start.patch Jul 15 11:15:04 openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r6d0431712c07 10/ (board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c drivers/video/smedia3362.c): deadbat-defer-glamo.patch Jul 15 11:15:07 openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r967bd3baccc1 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-cpu-idle.patch Jul 15 11:15:10 on 3 other occasions, it managed to see 1 satellite, but never got any fix Jul 15 11:15:11 openmoko: 03werner 07andy * rd96e96d5eec2 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-cpu-200.patch Jul 15 11:15:13 openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r9f788dcc9c67 10/cpu/arm920t/start.S: fix-early-upll.patch Jul 15 11:15:15 openmoko: 03werner 07andy * rb663ea63563e 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-gta02v5-noled.patch Jul 15 11:15:18 openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r1e1410ba46c6 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-alternate.patch Jul 15 11:15:23 openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r53c9bd51b52f 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-safe-voltage.patch Jul 15 11:16:01 yay! got chicken scheme + sdl + cairo working on the FR Jul 15 11:16:18 what do you use for gps testing? Jul 15 11:16:40 <`pwgen`> gpsd Jul 15 11:16:50 i was using openmoko-agpsui Jul 15 11:17:32 i don't know if this is really good or bad... the last thing i want to do is choose between an sd card or the gps Jul 15 11:17:41 hehe i agree Jul 15 11:17:46 i guess better to have the choice than not.. but still Jul 15 11:17:56 ieatlint, did you try the most recent kernel? maybe there are some sdcard related changes? Jul 15 11:17:57 it's better to have both ;0 Jul 15 11:18:15 quickdev, i think it's the sd card itself blocking the signal. Jul 15 11:18:20 ecraven: did u build a current version of chicken scheme and package it? Jul 15 11:18:25 quickdev, i previously used the ASU from 7/13 Jul 15 11:18:29 zedstar: i installed debian ;) Jul 15 11:18:40 right now i just flashed the 7/15 image on it to try Jul 15 11:18:41 and copied Xglamo and libts from 2007.2 Jul 15 11:18:51 ecraven, have you posted that to the list? Jul 15 11:18:58 just barely fits on 500 mb Jul 15 11:19:03 if i remove most of the locales Jul 15 11:19:04 ecraven, I know unknown_lamer is focused on guile Jul 15 11:19:08 i will, when i have a "demo" app Jul 15 11:19:12 i don't like guile at all ;) Jul 15 11:19:16 ecraven: where is the arm deb of chicken scheme? Jul 15 11:19:28 a cold fix in 48s... that just seems insane Jul 15 11:19:39 are we sure the gps firmware isn't caching its last fix? Jul 15 11:19:54 i got it to fix once before, albeit about 90km from where i just got this fix Jul 15 11:20:09 ecraven, I love how insanely pedantic schemers are "I love lisp." "Lisp 1 or 2?" "One" "I love scheme" "Me too" "I love guile" "YOU BASTARD, YOU MUST DIE NOW!" Jul 15 11:20:26 zedstar: normal debian repositories Jul 15 11:20:30 TAsnn, that little sd card? It would take me by surprise ;) Jul 15 11:20:33 emacsen: hehe, of course! Jul 15 11:21:01 well, as the mailing list post theorises, EMC... it makes sense Jul 15 11:21:04 ecraven: ok cool....there is an ipk of chicken scheme btw but is a few versions old Jul 15 11:21:06 Well, a simple test here Jul 15 11:21:07 ecraven, maybe if I posted that I'd add "Scheme R5 or R6?" or something of the sort Jul 15 11:21:10 Went outside without the SD card Jul 15 11:21:14 TTFF 62s Jul 15 11:21:18 Cold reset, TTFF 1s Jul 15 11:21:30 (inside, it's still a bit harder) Jul 15 11:21:32 (But then I have signal) Jul 15 11:21:44 so the sd card is blocking the signal? Jul 15 11:21:48 Ainulindale, TTFF 1s is a coincidence ;) Jul 15 11:21:50 no, the sd card isn't Jul 15 11:21:55 quickdev: Yep Jul 15 11:22:12 the idea is that the communication with the sd creates electrical interference for the gps Jul 15 11:22:56 ieatlint, why does it concern only a few devices? Jul 15 11:23:00 ieatlint: is that an issue only when you are using sat phones ? Jul 15 11:23:11 quickdev, it concerns all Jul 15 11:23:21 people who had gps working before had very crappy signal Jul 15 11:23:27 ieatlint, but some more or less? Jul 15 11:23:27 several minutes for a fix, etc Jul 15 11:23:36 geography methinks Jul 15 11:23:40 ecraven: i gave up packaging chicken scheme a while back as didnt think there was much interest from users here Jul 15 11:23:47 some places just get better signal Jul 15 11:23:47 ieatlint, I tested mine some hours ago - in my car, TTF 1 minute and 10 satellites when driving Jul 15 11:24:00 zedstar: i want some scheme, and chicken seems the easiest, and it has dbus/sdl/cairo bindings Jul 15 11:24:00 I've got a fix.... Faster than ever but still slow. Fix after 1734 secs, inside and rainy weather Jul 15 11:24:01 or the time of day you try... the sats are orbiting Jul 15 11:24:16 ieatlint: this is not true, i have a prototype that is working fine Jul 15 11:24:30 ieatlint: sd inserted, fix in 1-3min which is normal Jul 15 11:24:32 this is truly weird Jul 15 11:24:36 ecraven: yeh chicken scheme rocks IMO anyway Jul 15 11:25:07 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:FR_SIM_SD_open.jpg shows the socket for the sd Jul 15 11:25:14 is this the same as yours emdete ? Jul 15 11:25:36 the golden thing is the gps connector? Jul 15 11:25:45 yes Jul 15 11:25:56 that thing on the right in that pic is the antenna connector for the gps Jul 15 11:26:02 (for the internal antenna) Jul 15 11:26:17 ieatlint: i have a gta01 that does nit work, a prototype gta02 that works and a mp gta02 that does not Jul 15 11:26:50 is it possible that two batches of sd-cards are in the wild? Jul 15 11:26:53 someone get some bubble gum wrappers, put the foil side up and the sd card on top of it :P Jul 15 11:27:55 i really don't see how it could be the sd card itself... Jul 15 11:28:19 ieatlint: yes, for the prototype its exactly the design Jul 15 11:29:37 i wish i had saved some of those antistatic bags Jul 15 11:33:27 emacsen, do you have a sandisk 512mb card? Jul 15 11:33:36 *emdete Jul 15 11:34:06 quickdev: i use the card that came with the device Jul 15 11:35:36 openmoko: 03werner 07stable * r3f38474f96a3 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-wait-silently.patch Jul 15 11:35:37 openmoko: 03werner 07stable * r77ef5a9f9200 10/board/neo1973/gta02/ (gta02.c pcf50633.c): deadbat-defer-ldo.patch Jul 15 11:35:38 openmoko: 03werner 07stable * rce1e253ee6e7 10/board/neo1973/gta02/ (gta02.c pcf50633.c): deadbat-soft-start.patch Jul 15 11:35:38 openmoko: 03werner 07stable * r1e126c864247 10/ (board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c drivers/video/smedia3362.c): deadbat-defer-glamo.patch Jul 15 11:35:41 openmoko: 03werner 07stable * r0f0533a0434c 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-cpu-idle.patch Jul 15 11:35:44 openmoko: 03werner 07stable * r539eeece8bb0 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-cpu-200.patch Jul 15 11:35:47 openmoko: 03werner 07stable * rcd57a43e495d 10/cpu/arm920t/start.S: fix-early-upll.patch Jul 15 11:35:49 openmoko: 03werner 07stable * r718426fdc01e 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-gta02v5-noled.patch Jul 15 11:35:52 openmoko: 03werner 07stable * r8fa55aac744e 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-alternate.patch Jul 15 11:35:55 openmoko: 03werner 07stable * r4c53f3417cd7 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-safe-voltage.patch Jul 15 11:36:17 lots of updates :) Jul 15 11:36:23 dead battery fixes sound good Jul 15 11:36:31 as does a driver for the smedia chip Jul 15 11:37:01 why they are still under /neo1973 direcotry ? Jul 15 11:37:44 perhaps they're a bit nostalgic Jul 15 11:37:56 openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r3f38474f96a3 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-wait-silently.patch Jul 15 11:37:56 openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r77ef5a9f9200 10/board/neo1973/gta02/ (gta02.c pcf50633.c): deadbat-defer-ldo.patch Jul 15 11:37:57 openmoko: 03werner 07andy * rce1e253ee6e7 10/board/neo1973/gta02/ (gta02.c pcf50633.c): deadbat-soft-start.patch Jul 15 11:37:57 openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r1e126c864247 10/ (board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c drivers/video/smedia3362.c): deadbat-defer-glamo.patch Jul 15 11:38:00 openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r0f0533a0434c 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-cpu-idle.patch Jul 15 11:38:02 hehe Jul 15 11:38:02 openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r539eeece8bb0 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-cpu-200.patch Jul 15 11:38:04 openmoko: 03werner 07andy * rcd57a43e495d 10/cpu/arm920t/start.S: fix-early-upll.patch Jul 15 11:38:06 openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r718426fdc01e 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-gta02v5-noled.patch Jul 15 11:38:09 openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r8fa55aac744e 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-alternate.patch Jul 15 11:38:12 openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r4c53f3417cd7 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-safe-voltage.patch Jul 15 11:40:36 gj werner Jul 15 11:40:46 andy Jul 15 11:40:49 ++ Jul 15 11:44:14 is the internal gps antenna damaged? Jul 15 11:45:47 beni_, possibly... its random iirc Jul 15 11:49:09 beni_: The antenna appears fine - noise seems the major factor Jul 15 11:49:12 but hardware isn't random usually - maybe the assembly process damages the antenna somehow under some circumstances that where not present at the release candidate Jul 15 11:49:36 sd card bad? Jul 15 11:49:44 or some wiring inside the phone? Jul 15 11:50:03 the battery creates a bigger shield than the sd card Jul 15 11:51:05 beni_, the assembly i think is correct Jul 15 11:51:16 for the problems* Jul 15 11:51:37 you expect me to believe that china did a substandard job? Jul 15 11:51:38 hah. Jul 15 11:53:36 ieatlint, lol! Jul 15 11:55:46 hi Jul 15 11:56:30 fortunately there are ppl on this problem. Jul 15 11:56:52 unfortunately i now have fear to get a FR with hardware problems Jul 15 11:57:02 Wow. What just happened with tangogps.org? Jul 15 11:57:09 gps is one of the features i liked most on fr Jul 15 11:57:10 Yes well. I'm hoping for an on-line kludge to fix it... Jul 15 11:57:26 but we'll see Jul 15 11:58:00 someone will test it and see Jul 15 11:58:53 someone who is confident in their soldering ability could test it Jul 15 12:17:50 Hmm. I ran "opkg upgrade", and the phone downloaded some stuff. Now it is has quit X and some text is scrolling over the screen. The same text over and over again. Something like "pcf50633_irq:entering(irq=53, pcf=c7d34c00): scheduling work, and something more... It's hard to read Jul 15 12:17:54 What is it? Jul 15 12:18:24 I'm afraid to turn of the phone in case there is something that can damage anything Jul 15 12:18:42 sounds like a crash of sorts Jul 15 12:18:52 TeNoVi: The PCF50633 is the power management chip, it's normal kernel debug output Jul 15 12:18:57 What should I do? Jul 15 12:19:00 TeNoVi: It simply means that X crashed Jul 15 12:19:11 Reboot :) Jul 15 12:19:17 hmm. Should I take out the battery? Jul 15 12:19:22 also, you cannot hurt your freerunner with software unless you're using a debug board Jul 15 12:19:30 hmm, okey Jul 15 12:19:34 pulling the battery is safe. Jul 15 12:19:48 I manage to ssh to it Jul 15 12:19:48 ieatlint: Actually, someone managed to. He borked his u-boot_env Jul 15 12:19:52 ieatlint: or unless you flash the uboot partition over 1000 times. Jul 15 12:20:04 I ran shutdown Jul 15 12:20:06 abraxa_:that shouldnb't bork the NOR rescue partiotion thouhg? Jul 15 12:20:13 That seemed to work Jul 15 12:20:22 yeah, from i understood there were two backups Jul 15 12:20:47 and uboot only has 1000 writes? Jul 15 12:21:23 Do you know why x crashed? Any reason? """ Oh, I've got a coupple of boots in the booting :P( Jul 15 12:21:26 *) Jul 15 12:21:28 SpeedEvil: Noooo idea what he did. He claimed that NOR and NAND u-boot access the same u-boot_env, though that's a bit hard to believe indeed Jul 15 12:21:30 ieatlint: the first block of the NAND has no error correction. Jul 15 12:21:50 and NOR? Jul 15 12:21:57 ieatlint: and is rated for only 1000 writes Jul 15 12:22:02 (without errors) Jul 15 12:22:04 At least I've got a coupple of boots for two secounds Jul 15 12:23:03 What callendar is "standard" in Openmoko? I can see the callendar icon, but cannot open it Jul 15 12:23:22 Yeah - that's not properly setup at the moment. Jul 15 12:23:30 It needs to launch a chooser. Jul 15 12:23:44 hmm Jul 15 12:23:47 That pops up a python, c or c++ development environment, so you can write one. Jul 15 12:24:18 SpeedEvil, so if NAND gets corrupted, NOR can still boot it though, correct? Jul 15 12:24:26 and is NOR even readonly? Jul 15 12:25:33 does anybody know why gtk-apps do not appear in the ASU launcher? Jul 15 12:25:33 it's read only if you don't have a debug board Jul 15 12:26:50 andred: nothng to do with gtk. if the app provides a snatdnard .desktop file Jul 15 12:26:53 with categories set Jul 15 12:26:59 so it shows in a snatnard menu Jul 15 12:27:04 like it would on your desktop linux box Jul 15 12:27:10 it will appear in the launcher in asu Jul 15 12:27:16 the asu launcher (part of illume/e) Jul 15 12:27:24 uses the freedesktop.org menu file spec Jul 15 12:27:28 Did anyone already test tangogps with local map data? Jul 15 12:27:37 same as the "start: menu u seein gnome/kde/e/xfce Jul 15 12:28:05 ieatlint: NOR is read-only unless you have a debug board Jul 15 12:28:08 *refresh* Woot! it's in Mesquite. c'mon, c'mon... :) Jul 15 12:28:21 raster: i installed openmoko-terminal2 from the standard repository for example and it doesn't show up Jul 15 12:28:34 raster: although the .desktop file is in place and looks sane Jul 15 12:28:57 quickdev: Local map data? Jul 15 12:29:23 ebbe, it's possible to download for example the map data of germany - is it possible to use this with tango? Jul 15 12:30:18 quickdev: From where? ASU? I think that is for the 'ASU' gps-program Jul 15 12:31:03 ebbe, in general - with tangogps Jul 15 12:32:04 raster: sorry to bother, but do you have some tips on setting up a build environment for openmoko? Jul 15 12:32:28 quickdev: TangoGPS needs images. If you're thinking of data for routing software, it will not work. Try navit instead Jul 15 12:32:51 feitingen: Search the wiki for toolchain - or if you're brave and don't mind steep learning curves, use OpenEmbedded through MokoMakefile Jul 15 12:33:10 andred: as i said. if it has a.desktop.. WITH CATAGORIES set...(theres als an exception if it has System & Settings in categories its filtered out as its assumed to be a system configuration app) Jul 15 12:33:15 feitingen, toolchain will be the easiest option ;) Jul 15 12:33:19 thanks Jul 15 12:33:21 feitingen: mokomakefile Jul 15 12:34:18 raster: the openmoko-terminal has "Categories=GTK;Application;Utilities" and yet it doesn't show up :) Jul 15 12:36:53 it may have something else missing Jul 15 12:36:59 i KNOW in gneral .desktops work Jul 15 12:37:18 i have made my own packages with test apps that put .desktop files in /usr/share/applications Jul 15 12:37:20 and they show up Jul 15 12:39:15 my openmoko-terminal.desktop has Categories=GTK;Application;Utilities; and it shows up perfectly Jul 15 12:39:55 feitingen: in ASU? Jul 15 12:40:58 asu? Jul 15 12:44:08 is there a prebuilt package repo? I'd like fetchmail :) Jul 15 12:45:20 hello Jul 15 12:46:30 hi sledgeas Jul 15 12:47:22 old paste: (02:16:23 PM) sledgeas: Guilt: buy from openmoko store: "GSM 900Mhz variant stock is due on on July 25th" (yesterday it was july 15th) Jul 15 12:47:22 (02:21:15 PM) abraxa_: sledgeas: I'd assume it has to do with the newly discovered NOR and GPS issues Jul 15 12:47:49 does this mean, they are fixing the hardware issues? Jul 15 12:48:31 NOR issue? Jul 15 12:48:40 sledgeas: i heard it was a typo? Jul 15 12:49:15 15th was a typo i heard Jul 15 12:49:20 oh Jul 15 12:49:32 so there is no way that they are fixing the hardware? Jul 15 12:49:35 i heard a week ago or so that 900mhz was due in the 25th Jul 15 12:49:52 (GPS soldering, and µSD card issue) Jul 15 12:49:55 they can't fix the hardware that fast, especially when the exact problem isn't confirmed Jul 15 12:50:46 riite.. Jul 15 12:51:32 btw. I'm testing the GPS on two GTA02 without SD cards... both has suddenly become capable of even indoors tracking in my apartment.. ^_^ Jul 15 12:54:32 sledgeas: It was just an assumption - I guess it's not true then :) Jul 15 12:54:42 :) Jul 15 12:57:59 Hi all Jul 15 12:58:11 Yay for working GPS :-) Jul 15 12:58:29 without µSD :( Jul 15 12:59:03 yay for finding the culprit at least Jul 15 12:59:40 hopefully there'd be a fix for the already sold devices... Jul 15 12:59:46 But for some reason, it gives me results that are about 1km off... Jul 15 12:59:56 I'm experimenting a bit with putting something between the sd card (reader) and gps antenna connector, but I think it's not helping Jul 15 13:00:17 Is that known/fixable? Jul 15 13:00:37 Lo-lan-do: Let it see more satellites Jul 15 13:00:55 It does that even with 8 satellites in sight. Jul 15 13:01:08 That's odd then Jul 15 13:01:25 Mirv: probably the pins of SD which come in contact short something for GPS in the circuits (hope not though :)) Jul 15 13:01:26 Maybe it's just agpsui. Jul 15 13:01:58 Although TangoGPS shows me about 200km off. Apparently it rounds lat/long to integers. Jul 15 13:02:03 Lo-lan-do: I don't get wrong results with agpsui Jul 15 13:02:28 I'll walk around outside later today. Jul 15 13:02:52 pins aren't being shorted Jul 15 13:02:59 you'd definitely know if that were happening Jul 15 13:04:23 well, just a bit, lmao (it doesn't kill off the signal, too) Jul 15 13:06:38 :) Jul 15 13:06:44 Ecraven Jul 15 13:07:01 hey dave ;) Jul 15 13:08:26 raster: it does show up if i add the "Office" category Jul 15 13:08:48 * andred hopes he didn't set any filter or something like that Jul 15 13:12:54 ok, it shows up as soon as it contains a fdo standard category. the OM2007.2 .desktop files don't, unfortunately Jul 15 13:13:05 are there cases where GPS works with SD card like nothing happened? and what is the percentage? Jul 15 13:14:10 sledgeas: One of emdete's GTA02 is that way Jul 15 13:14:48 a dev model, though, not a general production one Jul 15 13:15:36 ieatlint: Which should be 100% identical in that area (microSD + GPS) Jul 15 13:16:34 it should be, yes Jul 15 13:17:05 but would they have approved the design for final production if test productions showed such an obvious gps issue? Jul 15 13:17:46 andred: they jo of standards :) Jul 15 13:17:48 joy Jul 15 13:17:49 :) Jul 15 13:18:08 thats due to the applications.menu only listing things with standard categories Jul 15 13:18:48 if the sd is inserted after a fix has been acquired does it lose the fix? or is reduced signal quality not such an issue first fix? Jul 15 13:19:01 issue after first fix* Jul 15 13:19:55 Hah, found the bug. Jul 15 13:20:22 TangoGPS rounds the lat/long to a degree, but agpsui rounds them to a minute. Jul 15 13:20:31 Lo-lan-do, then squish it Jul 15 13:20:34 thats silly Jul 15 13:20:44 Since I live neither on a pure meridian/parallel nor on a minute one, I get wrong positions. Jul 15 13:20:45 rounding to such coarse granularity is nigh useless Jul 15 13:21:00 gps can give accuracy to about 10m Jul 15 13:21:10 that's how you get 1 km offset, Lo-lan-do Jul 15 13:21:12 ? Jul 15 13:21:27 thats about seconds Jul 15 13:21:27 Yup. Jul 15 13:21:33 thats about 3 seconds Jul 15 13:21:42 Elleo: when I managed to get a fix with SD card in place, it stayed extremely well Jul 15 13:21:44 26 seconds. Jul 15 13:21:57 so rounding even tothe nearest minute reduces accuracy by a factor of 20 Jul 15 13:22:01 can the SD card reader be powered off via software? Jul 15 13:22:14 Mirv: but he asks about getting a quick fix w/o SD, and t hen re-inserting it Jul 15 13:22:20 Mirv: okay, one of my main uses for the freerunner is to be hacking on mapping type stuff, so sd + gps is pretty important to me ;) Jul 15 13:22:28 the sd card reading is provided by the glamo Jul 15 13:22:36 Elleo: same here Jul 15 13:22:36 hmm Jul 15 13:22:38 so if it maintains a fix after the sd has been inserted that's a satisfactory work around for me Jul 15 13:22:39 sledgeas: yes I know, I wonder if it would be similar to just powering off the reader while getting the first fix Jul 15 13:22:45 we are not sure if its the actual sd card housing and wiring Jul 15 13:22:46 Elleo: same here Jul 15 13:22:58 or the glamo cuasing interference when an sd card is in and owered up Jul 15 13:23:02 * cb22 worries that it will have something weird to do with the glamo Jul 15 13:23:08 but sd card reading is done by the glamo Jul 15 13:23:11 (what raster just said) Jul 15 13:23:23 so powering off the glamo may help Jul 15 13:23:25 hi all, i just got my freerunner last night, so far, everything seems to work fine - except making/receiving calls/sms - i keep getting the message 'Method "Dial" with signature "s" on interface "org.openmoko.PhoneKit.Dialer" doesn't exist' - seems to be this bug on the trac: http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1079 Jul 15 13:23:31 but that will nicely leave you with no display Jul 15 13:23:42 and this also would explain neu1973 vs freerunner Jul 15 13:23:44 as glamo was added Jul 15 13:23:50 and sd moved to the glamo Jul 15 13:23:54 and that kind of makes sense Jul 15 13:24:00 it may be too early to say Jul 15 13:24:08 so, powering off glamo and when you hear "beep" (fix gotten), you can push a button to power up glamo again?-) Jul 15 13:24:11 but strike one more for the glamo on suckiness. Jul 15 13:24:17 but that bug on trac doesn't seem to tell how to fix the problem Jul 15 13:24:35 anyone out there with a freerunner and some tinfoil? Jul 15 13:24:45 do hats count? Jul 15 13:24:55 (again 0- may be too early to say, but i can't resist poking at the glamo again.. it's my favorite culprit to blame for almost anything) Jul 15 13:25:07 heh Jul 15 13:25:17 the polar icecaps are melting... that damn glamo! Jul 15 13:25:28 damn glamo! Jul 15 13:25:29 cb22: I tried to put some tinfoil wrapped in some tape and put that between the GPS connector and card reader (it fit some way in between them), but it didn't help Jul 15 13:25:34 i'm hungry Jul 15 13:25:36 damn glamo! Jul 15 13:25:38 Mirv: the question is: did you effectively try to get a fix w/o SD card, and then re-inserting it? Jul 15 13:25:41 :) Jul 15 13:26:03 well... Jul 15 13:26:04 and if no, could you please try it for us with Elleo :) Jul 15 13:26:26 sledgeas, well if he already held acquired fixes fine with a card, is there any bloody difference? Jul 15 13:26:39 sledgeas: I haven't tried that, dunno how could I reinsert the SD card without removing battery. and what mjr said ^ Jul 15 13:26:45 is there an external gps antenna with the same gain as the internal one? Jul 15 13:26:55 Mirv: keep it powered over usb Jul 15 13:26:56 Mirv: kep fr plugged into usb for power Jul 15 13:27:03 (right) Jul 15 13:27:12 cb22: jinx Jul 15 13:27:13 :) Jul 15 13:27:15 :):) Jul 15 13:27:40 cb22 Jul 15 13:27:45 there :p Jul 15 13:27:52 cool...so the FR can remain powered without battery as long as it's plugged into USB? that's awesome! Jul 15 13:27:58 so, who else is soldering the glamo out right now? :) Jul 15 13:28:10 * Xaos should be receiving his FR today! Yippee! Jul 15 13:28:10 what I mean is that here where I don't get any fixes with the card inserted, I could keep the fix I acquired elsewhere just fine even with the card Jul 15 13:28:17 i know 2007.2 is the official recommended image, but have any of you tried asu? how solid is it telephony wise? Jul 15 13:28:33 and I assume the same happens if I got the fix without the card first and then inserted the card Jul 15 13:28:38 what would be interesting is to know if the external antennas get a fix because they are external, or because they jut provide a lot more gain then the internal one, offsetting the noise/whatever from the sd card Jul 15 13:28:44 mjr: if he got fix _faster_ w/o SD (that's the thing, and not waiting for minutes to get a fix with SD on the openest area), we wonder of the fix is lost after he re-inserts it Jul 15 13:28:58 i.ei fix/updates/signal strength Jul 15 13:29:21 sledgeas, why would it be? Jul 15 13:29:43 AntonTakk: the last i heard, about as solid as an ideal gas Jul 15 13:30:23 .....sorry, not much of a chemist here :) Jul 15 13:30:30 a more meaningful test would be if he was in an area where he couldn't get a fix without removing the sd, then see if it's lost upon insertion Jul 15 13:30:33 mjr: ask Elleo, why Jul 15 13:30:45 :( i want my freerunner Jul 15 13:31:04 santa be nice and send me one fast Jul 15 13:31:09 that's what i've been trying to explain, thanks Elleo Jul 15 13:32:44 * SpeedEvil plays the new openmoko theme. Jul 15 13:32:53 Elleo: well, one example that I can't get a fix without SD here inside this building, but when I got the fix elsewhere and had the card in, it was kept inside this building Jul 15 13:32:58 To the Tune of Blame Canada. Jul 15 13:33:05 Mirv: okay, that's encouraging Jul 15 13:33:07 Blame Glamo3d. Jul 15 13:33:22 You have been Glamoed! Jul 15 13:33:25 Shouldn't simply not using the SD ensure it's not clocked? Jul 15 13:33:36 oh, speedevil Jul 15 13:33:50 I'll try doing some more extensive tests along that theme when mine arrives (until then it's back to obsessively refreshing the UPS tracking :/) Jul 15 13:33:56 I fear the cpu runs too hot, normally. Jul 15 13:34:09 It would be nice if it could clock down, when resting. Jul 15 13:34:16 or something. Jul 15 13:34:19 Also - it's not implausible that it's a combination of problems on some phones. Jul 15 13:34:28 Dave: poke cesar b. Jul 15 13:34:31 i wonder how many toasted CPUs we'll get during APM testings :) Jul 15 13:34:38 Heh, alright :) Jul 15 13:34:55 With a sub-par antenna connection, it's more vulnerable to internal interference. Jul 15 13:35:03 sledgeas: shouldn't really be any. Jul 15 13:35:24 nah? Jul 15 13:35:27 sledgeas: You can't set it fast enough to cause damage Jul 15 13:35:43 so, no overclockings? :):) Jul 15 13:36:06 cesarb Jul 15 13:36:13 You can overclock it a bit - but not really fast enough to kill it Jul 15 13:36:17 I've got a liquid nitrogen cooled FreeRunner overclocked to 2GHz... Jul 15 13:36:21 ;-) Jul 15 13:36:31 ic, good self-protection Jul 15 13:36:36 And you can overvolt the CPU if you really want to kill it Jul 15 13:36:56 just kidding...but it'd be a b!tch to carry around the LN2 to keep it cool in my pocket Jul 15 13:37:04 how bout a portable water cooling kit ? Jul 15 13:37:39 how bout a urine cooled kit? hook up a catheter to your pocket that you keep the FR in Jul 15 13:37:40 ;-) Jul 15 13:37:58 then you'd have to keep drinking beer to keep your FR from overheating Jul 15 13:37:59 Xaos: now you're just taking the piss. Jul 15 13:38:12 Beer-powered FR! Jul 15 13:38:41 overheating-prevented FR by beer :) Jul 15 13:39:04 ah, nice. my first working chicken scheme + sdl game on the FR ;) Jul 15 13:39:20 WOOHOO!!!! 07/15/2008 8:23 A.M. OUT FOR DELIVERY Jul 15 13:39:26 o.O Jul 15 13:39:32 Xaos :) Jul 15 13:39:33 lulz? Jul 15 13:40:08 of course...I'll have to wait until I get home to plug it in and charge it before doing anything useful Jul 15 13:40:34 Is the scaredycat image the best for overall usefulness (telephony)? Jul 15 13:40:36 Xaos: note that urine cooling voids the warranty. Jul 15 13:40:43 SpeedEvil: LOL Jul 15 13:40:44 Xaos: it turns on when you plug it in, so you can play a bit while it charges, just don't unplug it Jul 15 13:41:15 I'm thinking of loading a good solid (HA!) image on the flash and do my testing, etc. while booting off the SD Jul 15 13:42:04 my wife's going to take my RAZR v3i away when the FR shows up, so I need some level of phone stability (I'll have her old crappy phone for backup though) Jul 15 13:42:24 Further debugging led me to the conclusion that TangoGPS and agpsui shouldn't be run with LANG=fr_FR. Jul 15 13:42:41 I guess that's the reason they misinterpret the results of the NMEA stream. Jul 15 13:42:53 ... Jul 15 13:42:54 When back to no locale, I get proper positioning \:O Jul 15 13:43:05 Er... I meant \o/ Jul 15 13:43:07 I guess it's doing wierd things with , Jul 15 13:43:18 Those wacky French...no wonder they get lost Jul 15 13:43:19 That's my guess too. Jul 15 13:43:24 ;-) Jul 15 13:46:10 can the flight mode be turned on for FR? like /etc/init.d/gsmd stop ? :) Jul 15 13:46:23 Xaos: i'm in the same boat as you, the freerunner's software curently does everything I need except make/recieve calls/sms :) Jul 15 13:49:19 anyone with a freerunner out there with mplayer installed who feels like being a guinea pig :)? Jul 15 13:49:33 There were 2 people on a boat: /hop and /quit. /hop got off, who's still on the boat? Jul 15 13:49:49 /quit did, fool Jul 15 13:50:00 the person still in the boat is /quit. Jul 15 13:50:03 shh, looking for newbs.. Jul 15 13:50:13 not in here Jul 15 13:50:14 they are all in #2,000 Jul 15 13:50:37 Alt-F4 for the answer Jul 15 13:50:49 hi, how to install a package(ipk format) into freerunner? must i download it into the phone Jul 15 13:51:29 Hoolxi: Move it to the phone and do "opkg install file.ipk" Jul 15 13:52:48 Hello Paul, this is UPS. I am calling about your shipment. What's the package Paul, running shoes? Jul 15 13:53:18 hehe Jul 15 13:53:24 i can imagine Jul 15 13:53:30 ebbe, thx, is there any other way? say, can i install into local rootfs before i package it into JFFS2 ball Jul 15 13:53:55 LetoTo: Why does UPS even care? Jul 15 13:53:56 Hoolxi: Yes, but I don't know how :) Jul 15 13:54:19 ebbe, thank u anyway Jul 15 13:54:30 Xaos: they want more of my money. import duties Jul 15 13:54:47 ahhh... Jul 15 13:55:01 "handling fees" Jul 15 13:55:09 so glad that the States are not allowed to charge duties between themselves Jul 15 13:55:11 never ship UPS to Canada Jul 15 13:55:24 FreeRunner...yeah...those are shoes! Jul 15 13:55:40 or...maybe it's a pedometer...it can do that...right? Jul 15 13:55:55 Letoto: "Yes, discount shoes - 'Free'Runners - they have virtually no value" Jul 15 13:56:17 unfortunately, the package already said $390 :P Jul 15 13:58:40 It's now in LIVONIA,MI Jul 15 13:58:50 this is one sad delivery path :) Jul 15 13:59:30 MI_ MIlano? Jul 15 13:59:51 Mine has made it to Hodgkins IL on its way to Akron. Jul 15 14:00:35 LetoTo, r u italian? Jul 15 14:00:40 mine stayed in Hodgins for a few days Jul 15 14:00:50 opentrinity:no Dutch, living in Toronto Jul 15 14:00:57 ops Jul 15 14:01:00 opentrinity: MI = Michigan Jul 15 14:01:02 so far XD Jul 15 14:02:20 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r187d4aea2ba9 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-asu-feed.bb: [openmoko-asu-feed] Fix a stupid mistake Jul 15 14:03:35 openmoko: 03john_lee * r4527 10/developers/john_lee/pyfso/ (5 files): (log message trimmed) Jul 15 14:03:35 openmoko: stuffs abstracted from another project trying to create a python Jul 15 14:03:35 openmoko: binding for fso dbus api. Jul 15 14:03:35 openmoko: * accelerometer.py needs to be integrated into frameworkd Jul 15 14:03:35 openmoko: * dialer.py a simple dialer implementation that depends on Jul 15 14:03:36 openmoko: fso_backend.py Jul 15 14:03:40 openmoko: * fso_backend.py a dbus wrapper. the biggest problem is that it Jul 15 14:05:28 I get "AR6000 scan complete: 0" and next line: "AR6000 Neighbor Report Event" and next line "bssid 00:19:5b:b4ec:67" I got this after I ran opkg upgrade. Now after it has worked a while with download, it started to apply, and suddenly there it was. What can I do? Jul 15 14:06:23 TeNoVi: that is just debug-info from the wireless driver Jul 15 14:08:01 however, should not appear unless you change loglevel or run dmesg as far as I know Jul 15 14:09:54 *refresh* Aww, still in Mesquite. Jul 15 14:13:48 mwl: I thougt so, but thats not all. "pcf50633 0-0073: pcf50633_irq scheduling work" and "pcf50633 0-0073: pcf50633bl_set_intensity Jul 15 14:14:22 TeNoVi: yeah, they appear all the time asswell. Debug info aswell Jul 15 14:15:05 not that I yet have had time to figure out what the pcf50633 chip is Jul 15 14:15:18 OM had interns this summer? Jul 15 14:17:20 retracile: you in the DFW Metroplex? Jul 15 14:18:16 are there known problems with sdl+cairo and the FR? Jul 15 14:18:18 mwl: So. What should I do now? Just wait. X is not started, and as I can see, it is not possible to start it manualy without a keyboard Jul 15 14:18:40 I got this in the upgrade prosess Jul 15 14:19:25 Xaos: yep Jul 15 14:20:02 mansfield Jul 15 14:20:38 retracile: me to...I live up north and work in NW Dallas Jul 15 14:21:37 and MINE's out for delivery. nyah nyah nyah Jul 15 14:21:41 ;-) Jul 15 14:22:02 i wonder if mine is already produced Jul 15 14:22:13 delivery is sheduled to 25. Jul 15 14:22:49 * retracile is envious Jul 15 14:23:05 Xaos: Did you go ground, or pay extra? Jul 15 14:23:43 ground...cheap shipping Jul 15 14:23:53 same here Jul 15 14:23:56 I ordered mine on the 3rd (order 1220) Jul 15 14:38:40 cool...so the FR can remain powered without battery as long as it's plugged into USB? that's awesome! <~ Yes, although the GSM department will be unpowered Jul 15 14:38:59 But you can change batteries that way, for example. Jul 15 14:39:23 wow.. it shipped yesterday Jul 15 14:39:26 and is already in Vancouver Jul 15 14:46:27 has anyone else noticed problems with cairo on the FR?? Jul 15 14:48:09 ecraven: Define "problems" Jul 15 14:49:03 abraxa_: colors are off, everything is stretched and distorted ;) Jul 15 14:49:47 ecraven: Maybe it's using the wrong display bit depth? Jul 15 14:50:27 abraxa_: how do i change that? Jul 15 14:50:31 i'm using RGB24 Jul 15 14:50:43 there's only ARGB32, A1 and A8 in addition to that Jul 15 14:51:36 * abraxa_ points at raster - he might have an idea, I unfortunately don't Jul 15 14:52:14 cairo.h says: @CAIRO_FORMAT_RGB16_565: This format value is deprecated. Jul 15 14:52:22 the openmoko is rgb16, right? Jul 15 14:52:29 can anyone help me with my wireless? my freerunner can ping computers in my network but not outside of it Jul 15 14:52:43 ecraven: fr screen deptn is 16bot Jul 15 14:52:51 so using 24/32bit visuals is going to not help u much Jul 15 14:52:51 :) Jul 15 14:53:03 Arg0naut: sounds like routing issue Jul 15 14:53:05 raster: hm.. then cairo has a problem Jul 15 14:54:33 mine has been stuck in san pablo since the 12th Jul 15 14:55:21 linuxxr: mine updated yesterday (14th) to say that it had left san pablo on the 11th Jul 15 14:55:32 cool Jul 15 14:55:32 so there's just an update delay going on Jul 15 14:55:43 but when it updated, it also moved the estimated delivery back Jul 15 14:55:46 15th->17th Jul 15 14:55:46 then i wont get excited Jul 15 14:56:18 i was thinking evil things Jul 15 14:56:59 of course you were! Jul 15 14:57:01 Evil! Jul 15 14:57:20 iwas thinking somebody changed the address in the mail room an got it shipped to them Jul 15 14:58:11 ecraven: it may. if cairo doesnt support 16bpp output - your'e in truble then. Jul 15 14:58:12 :) Jul 15 14:59:11 raster: i'm quite sure it doesn't Jul 15 14:59:16 back to sdl gfx then ;) Jul 15 14:59:51 well how nice of cairo Jul 15 15:00:49 or u can use evas Jul 15 15:00:50 :) Jul 15 15:01:57 url? Jul 15 15:01:57 so, how do I get OM to send me a free FR, without putting in much effort? Jul 15 15:02:05 i need something i can access from scheme (possibly via c bindings) Jul 15 15:02:27 summatusmentis: why do you think that should be possible? Jul 15 15:02:38 because I'm a poor college student :) Jul 15 15:02:44 cjb: mostly a joke Jul 15 15:02:52 summatusmentis: You can get a Free FR, it just costs money. :) Jul 15 15:03:12 retracile: heh Jul 15 15:05:42 yay !!! my payment is being processed, pulster will at last be able to ship my FR \o/ Jul 15 15:06:24 N-Mi, will you get it with the "25-batch"? Jul 15 15:06:54 spydon: 25-batch ? Jul 15 15:07:03 oh, cool, the GPS problems got diagnosed Jul 15 15:07:20 they did? Jul 15 15:07:44 cjb: More info? Jul 15 15:07:58 ebbe: take out your sdcard Jul 15 15:08:01 community list Jul 15 15:08:13 yeah, apparently having an SD card in causes the low signal strength Jul 15 15:08:16 incredible. Jul 15 15:08:22 ecraven/ebbe: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/021774.html Jul 15 15:08:31 N-Mi, didn't the first batch sell out pretty fast and the second would arrive the 25 of july? Jul 15 15:08:50 N-Mi, sorry for my crappy English ^^ Jul 15 15:09:15 all. Jul 15 15:09:39 spydon: my order is from the first batch, but it took long for my bank to process the international transfer for the payment Jul 15 15:09:58 N-Mi, I see, do you know when you will get it? Jul 15 15:11:14 raster: care to explain to me in a few sentences how evas works? Jul 15 15:11:29 spydon: I've just sent a mail to Pulster to tell him I can see the transfer on my online bank account, if he can see it too ge will ship my FR the same day (as he said to me in a previous mail) Jul 15 15:11:47 ecraven: very differently to cairo or SDL Jul 15 15:11:54 N-Mi, nice Jul 15 15:12:03 ecraven: SDL does almost nothing. it basically handles kbd/mouse abstraction Jul 15 15:12:09 hm.. callback from c into scheme doesn't sound good Jul 15 15:12:12 and getting a window/fullscreen up Jul 15 15:12:21 and then lts u blast pixels yourself Jul 15 15:12:33 those pixel may be yuv via xvideo Jul 15 15:12:37 or native format Jul 15 15:12:48 ie rgb (16bit 565, 8bit, 24/32bit) Jul 15 15:12:49 spydon: and DHL's website tells that an air mail takes one day to go from Germany to France Jul 15 15:12:50 etc. Jul 15 15:13:07 cairo does a lot more Jul 15 15:13:14 it haslots of drawing primitives. Jul 15 15:13:19 but its immediate-mode Jul 15 15:13:25 u draw, then forget Jul 15 15:13:35 N-Mi, yeah I saw that too, pretty neat Jul 15 15:13:38 if u change something u need to redraw it Jul 15 15:13:43 vas is a stateful cavas Jul 15 15:13:47 u create and destroy objects Jul 15 15:13:53 configure them how u like them Jul 15 15:13:58 eg create image object Jul 15 15:14:05 put in middle of screen Jul 15 15:14:05 show it Jul 15 15:14:05 then forget Jul 15 15:14:19 place a big image below everything and size it to the window - forget aboutit Jul 15 15:14:23 all redraws are done for u Jul 15 15:14:28 automatically Jul 15 15:14:32 raster: sounds good, i just have to figure out how i can make callbacks work. Jul 15 15:14:37 any change in state is evaluated and updated for you Jul 15 15:14:45 it is a c api Jul 15 15:14:48 and is callback heavy Jul 15 15:15:14 so evas is more equivelant to something like goocanvas? Jul 15 15:16:30 anyone have phone-kit not becoming a zombie on startup in 2007.2? Jul 15 15:18:02 * Chocky wonders if raster is done yet. Jul 15 15:18:04 raster: is there an evas for debian? Jul 15 15:18:44 Elleo: dont know goocanvas Jul 15 15:18:50 Is ecraven done yet? Jul 15 15:19:06 from what you've said it sounds similar, although more aimed at vector stuff (it's cairo based) Jul 15 15:19:07 ;p Jul 15 15:19:27 similar interms of usage at any rate Jul 15 15:20:41 How can I see when the battery is fully charged? Jul 15 15:21:09 WINDSOR, ON,  CA Jul 15 15:21:21 it's slowly migrating to me like a squirrel Jul 15 15:21:34 raster: may I ask you something? is the glamo able to do hot-swap for the microSD card? Jul 15 15:21:49 raster: you speak german, right? http://80.61.221.9/gpstests.txt Jul 15 15:22:22 Elleo: not much info on goocanvas... Jul 15 15:22:52 Anyone know what happened with tangogps' homepage? Jul 15 15:22:58 edistar: dont know if it can hotswap Jul 15 15:23:09 raster: ok Jul 15 15:23:15 ebbe: Is anything wrong? Jul 15 15:23:16 frankly hotswap of d has never even bee tested as best i know Jul 15 15:23:21 explosion!11 Jul 15 15:23:24 basically since u need to remove the battery to get to it Jul 15 15:23:25 raster: because if I insert it while the FR is running it doesn't recognize it Jul 15 15:23:34 TenoVi: Only commercials.. Jul 15 15:23:37 any removal of sim or sd card is pretty much assumed to mean a powerdown Jul 15 15:23:39 :/ Jul 15 15:23:48 raster: yeah, it lacks any sort of decent website, there's resonable documentation distributed as far as I remember, I fiddled with the python bindings for it a while back when making a topological map/network editor Jul 15 15:23:56 ebbe: Do you have a screenshot? It's looking fine here Jul 15 15:23:59 distributed with it* Jul 15 15:24:03 raster: okey Jul 15 15:24:12 edistar: was ist der "dummy" Jul 15 15:24:26 raster: ein plastikstueck in der form einer microSD-karte Jul 15 15:24:32 aaah Jul 15 15:24:34 TenoVi: Maybe dns-capture?? Jul 15 15:24:37 dummy-karte Jul 15 15:24:40 just to test if it was a mechanical failure Jul 15 15:25:06 ja - wir wissen was jetzt mit dem gps los ist Jul 15 15:25:21 ebbe: hmm... Jul 15 15:25:25 raster: erzaehle Jul 15 15:25:33 i'll wait for the official explanation to come out Jul 15 15:25:40 okey Jul 15 15:25:41 tenoVi: http://imagebin.org/22553 Jul 15 15:25:45 but we do have a hardware fix Jul 15 15:25:50 \o/ cool Jul 15 15:25:58 its a board-change with an addec capacitor Jul 15 15:26:01 :( Jul 15 15:26:02 raster: any idea if it's performable by outsiders? Jul 15 15:26:03 oh Jul 15 15:26:05 ugh. Jul 15 15:26:13 andy has thrown about the idea of a software fix Jul 15 15:26:17 aw. a board layout change, or just adding a wire and the cap? Jul 15 15:26:28 that is still under investigation Jul 15 15:26:43 cjb: well - addint a wire is a board change :) Jul 15 15:26:46 ok. good luck :) Jul 15 15:26:50 so every FR has to be sent to a reseller? Jul 15 15:26:52 well, I still don't have GPS working. that might be becase it seems to be a mess under the qtopia image Jul 15 15:26:55 raster: does GPS work with dummy-SD card? Jul 15 15:27:15 mw|: it does for me Jul 15 15:27:17 dunno Jul 15 15:27:25 i havent done anything with gps... ever Jul 15 15:27:27 on the fr Jul 15 15:27:39 edistar: aaah.. so the fault is electrical then Jul 15 15:27:57 ebbe: That was realy strange... I've got the same adress... What country are you in? Jul 15 15:28:04 the clock rail to the sd card is causing rf interference Jul 15 15:28:05 raster: is known what exactly happens? Jul 15 15:28:06 TeNoVi: Denmark Jul 15 15:28:12 ah, sry Jul 15 15:28:15 and the different timeing I get with external-antenna vs internal (with SD card removed) probably comes from different quality of the GPS-antennas? Jul 15 15:28:16 we ask the glamo topower down sd when idle Jul 15 15:28:24 but it apparentlky doesnt seem to power the clock down Jul 15 15:28:25 ebbe: Ah, saw that now :P Norway here Jul 15 15:28:27 morning Jul 15 15:28:33 so glamo isnt doing what it is asked to Jul 15 15:28:50 raster: but if SD and gps is used at the same time the problem would persist? Jul 15 15:28:50 andy's sofware fix will be to try and see if he can get it to manually power down from the driver Jul 15 15:28:53 when the driver thgins its idle Jul 15 15:28:59 not auto-powerdown from glamo Jul 15 15:29:06 that MAY work as a software fix Jul 15 15:29:10 so as long as sd card io si idle Jul 15 15:29:15 gps will not be interfered with Jul 15 15:29:18 with a software fix Jul 15 15:29:20 raster, sounds potential at least Jul 15 15:29:20 if it works Jul 15 15:29:36 edistar: correct Jul 15 15:29:37 so using cards from sd for navigation doesnt work at all then...? Jul 15 15:29:40 ebbe: Try http://www.theproxyfree.com/ Jul 15 15:29:43 that means ACTIVE sd cardio Jul 15 15:29:46 ieactiveread/write Jul 15 15:29:57 if it ewas idle - it'd be foricbly powered down Jul 15 15:30:10 emdete: it would inhibit getting an initial fix Jul 15 15:30:17 if the hardware fix works, can we send in our FR to get it fixed for free? Jul 15 15:30:18 but i believe once u have a fix it works Jul 15 15:30:19 TeNoVi: Yep. Works Jul 15 15:30:21 even with sd card Jul 15 15:30:30 ecraven: i dont know Jul 15 15:30:33 as i said Jul 15 15:30:37 guesses? Jul 15 15:30:42 wait for the official line Jul 15 15:30:43 raster: not for me: mines looses the fix when plugin off ext. antenna Jul 15 15:31:47 emdete, but your software doubtfully uses the card actively all the time anyway Jul 15 15:31:50 emdete: it maqy be that an external ant/ has different reciever characteristics and so needs a re-fix Jul 15 15:31:54 i dont really know Jul 15 15:32:42 mjr: more or less, yes, i read maps, write those tiles that are new and write email and stuff too. but not all the time Jul 15 15:32:51 raster: so no chances of soldering this at home.. Jul 15 15:33:14 raster: so in a way, evas is like a GL scene graph? Jul 15 15:36:32 emdete, nevertheless, it's somewhat intermittent. Of course, it's to be determined if the chip can keep fixes in the gaps... Jul 15 15:38:18 raster: Thanks for the heads-up btw Jul 15 15:38:20 * SpeedEvil really, really hopes it's a trivial mod. Jul 15 15:38:29 really. Jul 15 15:38:39 sledgeas: i dont know. i'm not a hw guy. Jul 15 15:38:44 Worst case, it could be a re-layout. Jul 15 15:38:49 ecraven: yes. a lot of a gl scene graph Jul 15 15:38:52 Best case it's a component change. Jul 15 15:39:00 raster: how hard would it be to package it for debian? Jul 15 15:39:00 SpeedEvil: omgpwnies Jul 15 15:39:05 ecraven: somewhere between gl and a full "game engine" no physics etc. enginein evas Jul 15 15:39:05 raster: would it be possible to clock down the sdcard via the glamo? Jul 15 15:39:13 but you do describe a 2d world to it Jul 15 15:39:17 (If it's not the cable) Jul 15 15:39:20 and manipulate it Jul 15 15:39:22 raster: sounds very much like what i want ;) Jul 15 15:39:45 ecraven: as for debian - it's in debiuan testing already. Jul 15 15:39:58 tedo: it should be abl to be clocked off Jul 15 15:40:02 as siuch it should already be Jul 15 15:40:10 we ask glamo to clock off when idle Jul 15 15:40:10 but it doesnt Jul 15 15:40:16 well doenst do hat we wasked Jul 15 15:40:29 so we need to try bypass auto-clock-ffo by manually clocking off from the driver Jul 15 15:40:53 raster: ah, perfect. i'll try more tomorrow, going to test my gps now ;/ Jul 15 15:40:55 raster: ok, i mean in general. eg if gps == on then sd_clock = slow; Jul 15 15:41:51 tedo: i dont know if we have slwo clocks for sd Jul 15 15:42:01 i know we have on and off Jul 15 15:42:01 mmh, underclocking the sd bus would perhaps be an interesting experiment if possible, which is not necessarily the case... Jul 15 15:42:16 as i'm not working on the stuff - i'm jut summarising the discussion so far Jul 15 15:42:17 :) Jul 15 15:42:29 as such it should be "off" anyway Jul 15 15:42:30 ie Jul 15 15:42:31 raster: thx :) Jul 15 15:42:37 if u are not actually reading or writing sd card data Jul 15 15:42:41 it SHOULD be off Jul 15 15:42:51 aanyway, hope to hear more from the subject soon from official sources then Jul 15 15:42:55 so if u are not actively reading or writign files on sd WHILE trying to get a gps fix Jul 15 15:42:58 u should be fine Jul 15 15:43:03 *IF* the sd card would clock off Jul 15 15:43:05 whihc it doesnt Jul 15 15:43:12 so this is all about the software fix Jul 15 15:43:13 hm. Jul 15 15:43:24 whihc is possible for everyone to benefit from without hw returns/fixes Jul 15 15:43:29 yes. Jul 15 15:43:36 as such the sd clock really should be off anyway Jul 15 15:43:41 raster: thanks for the update Jul 15 15:43:41 so this saves us more power Jul 15 15:43:47 indeed, even from the power standpoi...echo Jul 15 15:43:48 it SHOULd have been off Jul 15 15:43:55 as we asked glamo to turn it off when not in use Jul 15 15:43:59 but it didnt Jul 15 15:44:05 so either way Jul 15 15:44:08 its a power-saving fix Jul 15 15:44:12 and improved gps Jul 15 15:44:14 yeah Jul 15 15:44:50 in fact Jul 15 15:44:53 for you guys: Jul 15 15:44:55 http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commitdiff;h=5cb541702a40dc61fababe4613f6838df1c2acbd Jul 15 15:45:01 if u want to go patch your kernels Jul 15 15:45:06 andy just finished the patch Jul 15 15:45:29 looks good! Jul 15 15:45:42 I wonder how long it takes to bring the clock up and down. Jul 15 15:46:24 raster: the hw fix would stop the interference? so gps would _always_ get the same reception regardless of SD io? Jul 15 15:46:37 edistar: likely, yes Jul 15 15:46:57 but raster has a good point, that driving clocks unnecessarily is something to fix in general, for power reasons etc Jul 15 15:47:31 obviously Jul 15 15:47:40 Is there a known issue with pulseaudio and resume? Jul 15 15:48:04 Yesterday I had Milestone 1 of FSO running on my 01 all day, and had forgotten to shut down pulseaudio Jul 15 15:48:26 edistar: i think it does. not sure on details there, but it means the software fix is ONLY a power improvement Jul 15 15:48:37 I understand why this prevented it from ringing aloud, but it also appeared to fubar any ability to receive a call while suspended Jul 15 15:48:39 as such Jul 15 15:48:44 if the software fix is reliable Jul 15 15:48:48 i think its sufficient Jul 15 15:48:50 And also apparently the ability to make calls after it resumed Jul 15 15:49:00 simply sd card io needs to be avoided while gettign a gps fix Jul 15 15:49:13 raster: okey Jul 15 15:49:34 raster: no, I don't think it is sufficient.. Jul 15 15:49:37 wurp2|semi_away: I'm having the same problem with the standard image :S (If I got it right what you said) Jul 15 15:49:45 (Note: the reason pulseaudio is on FSO is that I am working on getting 2007.2 stuff working on it. I meant to have my 2007.2 stuff "turned off" during my day so I could use it for calls Jul 15 15:49:51 raster: the patch says that the sdcard clk is variable (just for your info) Jul 15 15:49:57 raster: not only when getting a fix.. in sheltered areas one also would keep the fix.. Jul 15 15:50:11 tedo, interesting Jul 15 15:50:11 TeNoVi: That makes sense, since pulseaudio is always running in the standard image Jul 15 15:50:32 edistar: why is it not sufficient? Jul 15 15:50:36 TeNoVi: And must run if you want sound, except sound during calls should still work with pulseaudio down in 2007.2 Jul 15 15:50:59 when actively reading and writing to the sd card ull lose reception quality Jul 15 15:51:06 whihc comes back up when IO stops Jul 15 15:51:31 raster: but if you read GPS data like every 1 second and write it to SD? Jul 15 15:51:39 wurp2|semi_away: I loose the "ringtone" sound, but i can hear people talk and they can hear me in a call Jul 15 15:51:43 you don't sync it to SD every second Jul 15 15:51:50 or you're killing the card ;] Jul 15 15:51:52 TeNoVi: I'm not sure if people running the standard image have ever gotten good suspend/resume consistently Jul 15 15:51:59 TeNoVi: After suspend/resume? Jul 15 15:52:04 if i shutdown the FR and leave the power cable plugged in does it charge? or soed it have to be powered on? Jul 15 15:52:04 ok, so it's being cached elsewhere then Jul 15 15:52:07 sledgeas: u wont write AT the same time Jul 15 15:52:16 soed/does* Jul 15 15:52:17 i read gps.. THEN writ to sd Jul 15 15:52:19 and if anything Jul 15 15:52:22 the sd is buffered Jul 15 15:52:25 wurp2|semi_away: Yes. only after suspend/resume. If It don't suspend, it's fine Jul 15 15:52:28 TeNoVi: I lose the ringtone sound regardless of suspend/resume, because FSO tries to talk to alsa directly - pulseaudio is not supposed to be running on FSO at all Jul 15 15:52:33 so it maqy be several seconds before u write it in reality as its in cache Jul 15 15:52:39 Is the slew rate of the sdclock configurable? Jul 15 15:53:01 TeNoVi: What I *also* lose, most of the time, is the ability to get or make a call after a resume Jul 15 15:53:04 Lame! I have to wait longer for me fr Jul 15 15:53:10 All, We have just had an update from Openmoko saying that that our delivery of Freerunners has been delayed by new custom procedures in China. We were expecting to have these in our office and ready to send out to you on the 18th July. However Openmoko are now telling us that they will not be able to ship them to us until 21st July so we now expect to have them ready to send out on 28th July. Jul 15 15:53:41 TeNoVi: But it does sound as if both of our issues could have one cause: problems in pulseaudio resume Jul 15 15:53:42 Hmm. Is GPS serial connected to the debug board? Jul 15 15:53:47 raster: so software fix cures just the consequence but not the cause. you admit that the clock interference with rf is a flaw in chip design and to get rid of it completely (shielding off the interference) would be already a challenge for home-hardware-solderers :) out there? Jul 15 15:53:55 IOW - can you power everything else off, and wake GPS Jul 15 15:54:08 wurp2|semi_away: Hmm. I can recive and call, but if the phone is going back in suspend, the phone wount wake up if someone is calling Jul 15 15:54:11 sledgeas: it may be impossible Jul 15 15:54:18 sledgeas: depending ont he design of the PCB. Jul 15 15:54:30 even that, exactly Jul 15 15:55:01 TeNoVi: OK, mine will wake on a call, but it will never actually let me take the call, and calling was broken after the wake Jul 15 15:55:26 It might even be something like direct EMI of the RAM bus. Jul 15 15:55:27 TeNoVi: I think you'll find that the media player, and keyboard click, also are broken after resume Jul 15 15:55:41 GPS is 'only' 10 times higher in frequency than the RAM bus. Jul 15 15:55:51 zmoll: hooray customs! Jul 15 15:56:21 sledgeas: yes. it cures the consequence and makes it work - if you pause/hold SD IO while geting gps info Jul 15 15:56:23 SpeedEvil: Hm? What's wrong with the SD-clock-leaks-into-GPS-RF theory? Jul 15 15:56:34 as such it si very easy to hold sd io while gps device is active Jul 15 15:56:39 * cjb doesn't see where the RAM bus came from. Jul 15 15:56:42 hell the kernel could automatically do this Jul 15 15:56:47 cjb: I've not seen anything that backs it up other than conjecture. Jul 15 15:56:48 on a read of gps device Jul 15 15:56:50 FIRST Jul 15 15:56:54 will require another patch - exactly, should be automatized ;) Jul 15 15:57:04 wait for any pending writes to sd to finish Jul 15 15:57:10 pause sd writes Jul 15 15:57:11 that was me quoting an email from Truebox, other suppliers may not be affected as badly. Jul 15 15:57:12 clock of sd Jul 15 15:57:13 SpeedEvil: so you're replacing it with a different, and even more unsubstianted conjecture? :) Jul 15 15:57:14 do gps thing Jul 15 15:57:23 then when gps io finished Jul 15 15:57:26 cjb: does dd if=/dev/zero of=/media/card/foo reliably kill the GPS Jul 15 15:57:34 bring sd back up and continue Jul 15 15:57:36 its possible Jul 15 15:57:40 SpeedEvil: no, because the SD clock is *always* on. Jul 15 15:57:42 with a performance penalty Jul 15 15:57:45 (when an SD card is inserted) Jul 15 15:57:47 and complexity penalty Jul 15 15:57:49 in software Jul 15 15:57:50 if i shutdown the FR and leave the power cable plugged in does it charge? or does it have to be powered on? Jul 15 15:57:56 so its a doable fix in software Jul 15 15:58:03 raster: interesting idea, I wonder what the timescales are Jul 15 15:58:03 as SD IO and GP Io go both through the kernel Jul 15 15:58:06 so it can do this Jul 15 15:58:08 swc|666, iirc powerd on. Jul 15 15:58:12 powered* Jul 15 15:58:12 in fact Jul 15 15:58:17 TAsnn, : thanx Jul 15 15:58:18 unless y are calling fsync() Jul 15 15:58:21 cjb: however, with SD, you've got 4 bits toggling at the same time as the clock. Jul 15 15:58:23 for sd IO write Jul 15 15:58:28 (whihc you shouldnt be) Jul 15 15:58:32 cjb: so wirte/read may make it lots worse. Jul 15 15:58:41 the only conseaquence would be a greater latency on read of uncached data Jul 15 15:58:47 IF doing a gps read at the same time Jul 15 15:58:51 so not that big a hit Jul 15 15:58:57 justa nast-code-complexity hit in the kernel Jul 15 15:59:03 where now 2 drivers need to be aware of eachother Jul 15 15:59:06 and block eachother out Jul 15 15:59:18 SpeedEvil: it may, but I don't see what your point is anymore. Jul 15 15:59:22 Worst case I suppose is GPS loses sats every time you touch the SD. Jul 15 15:59:27 Like going into a tunnel. Jul 15 15:59:35 you're trying to argue that it isn't the fault of the SD by saying that it will be even more the fault of the SD when we bitbang it? Jul 15 15:59:37 SpeedEvil: apparently the clokc line is continually buzzing with clokc signals Jul 15 15:59:41 without read/write happning Jul 15 15:59:44 it SHOULDNT be Jul 15 15:59:51 we asked glamo to auto-powerdown when idel Jul 15 15:59:52 it doesnt Jul 15 16:00:00 cjb: no - I'm saying that if the clock signal leaks, data write/read should probably make it worse. Jul 15 16:00:09 raster: his point still stands, though. when the clock is on, you will be disrupting the GPS radio. Jul 15 16:00:12 so get driver to force a power down of the sd clock when no io is active will help Jul 15 16:00:15 SpeedEvil: it means re-inserting SD after fix should already be loosing GPS sats Jul 15 16:00:19 it still emans ACTIVe Io means the SD clock is up Jul 15 16:00:22 and that affects gps Jul 15 16:00:37 SpeedEvil: I think that sounds correct. Jul 15 16:00:41 if we can find a way to mutally exclude sd io and gps activity Jul 15 16:00:41 Are there any tests that have actually lead to this SD theory? Jul 15 16:00:49 Or is it just hypothesis? Jul 15 16:00:50 we will be golden in terms of a reliable software fix Jul 15 16:00:51 SpeedEvil: Getting a good fix is the hard part, though, and we know we can do that with the clock off. Jul 15 16:00:56 SpeedEvil: There are tests. Jul 15 16:00:57 it just comes with a performance penalty Jul 15 16:00:59 as as such Jul 15 16:00:59 http://80.61.221.9/gpstests.txt Jul 15 16:01:06 the Fr is full of performance penalties anyway Jul 15 16:01:10 another wont kill us Jul 15 16:01:11 :) Jul 15 16:01:14 SpeedEvil: and about ~50 people who just posted to community@ agreeing that their FR works if they take out the SD. Jul 15 16:01:28 cjb: They seem to be encrypted Jul 15 16:01:31 cjb: Ah. Jul 15 16:01:32 :) Jul 15 16:01:45 I haven't been reading community as much as I should. Jul 15 16:01:59 It could be something as stupid as a missing decoupling cap. Jul 15 16:05:40 * Dave decouples SpeedEvil Jul 15 16:06:41 anyway Jul 15 16:06:45 if a software fix is possible Jul 15 16:06:48 its going to happen Jul 15 16:07:05 as a hw fixis really not something anyone wants... unlessthere is no choice Jul 15 16:07:08 anyone got a patched kernel yet? Jul 15 16:07:40 raster: is the software fix not already in the patch? Jul 15 16:07:51 Qtooooooooooooooopia Jul 15 16:07:56 that is a first software fix Jul 15 16:08:00 *IF* Jul 15 16:08:02 that solves things Jul 15 16:08:09 the same way as no sd card" solves it Jul 15 16:08:17 (as long as u dont do SDIO while using gps) Jul 15 16:08:26 then we have the start of a more workable fix Jul 15 16:08:44 we can consider mutually-exclusively locking out GPS Io and SD IO Jul 15 16:08:48 so they nver interfere Jul 15 16:08:53 it may be doable Jul 15 16:08:57 but weneed to see Jul 15 16:09:57 SpeedEvil: yes, it is indeed fixed by adding a single cap. Jul 15 16:09:58 It sounds unlikely to me that it's GPS and SD IO that's the issue. Jul 15 16:10:12 But GPS use and SD IO Jul 15 16:10:22 SpeedEvil: it doesn't seem unlikely to anyone working on it. Jul 15 16:11:03 wurp2|semi_away: Yes, there is a bug in the ALSA driver somewhere that causes trouble on suspend/resume with Pulseaudio -- see my website for a workaround for this problem. Jul 15 16:11:37 In that the interference isn't with the GPS output - the serial port reads just fine. But the GPS input stage - which is picking up hash from the SD IO. Jul 15 16:11:59 SpeedEvil: oh, absolutely Jul 15 16:12:00 SpeedEvil: hmmm no sd doesnt use sdio? Jul 15 16:12:16 raster: he just means "input/output on the SD controller" Jul 15 16:12:33 ooh Jul 15 16:12:36 yes Jul 15 16:12:38 the probem is Jul 15 16:12:42 SpeedEvil: the claim has always been that it's high-frequency leaking from the SD clock into the GPS antenna path. Jul 15 16:12:42 the way he sd driver is now Jul 15 16:12:44 Yeah - I was addressing rasters 'mutually-exclusively locking out GPS Io and SD IO' Jul 15 16:12:45 mwester: Excellent, thanks! I was sure remembered something about it, but searching the ML archives for "pulseaudio resume" turned up nothing useful Jul 15 16:12:45 sdio is ALWAYS on Jul 15 16:12:52 here is ALWAYS clock there if a card is in Jul 15 16:12:54 that is bad Jul 15 16:12:55 for power Jul 15 16:12:59 andy's patch fixes that Jul 15 16:13:04 its a glamo bug Jul 15 16:13:13 wurp2audio Jul 15 16:13:16 it doesnt auto-power off the sd clock line as requested when idle Jul 15 16:13:20 raster: how do you define "GPS IO" Jul 15 16:13:21 ? Jul 15 16:13:32 wurp2py Jul 15 16:13:43 raster: yes - but that's not an issue - this should cause power problems, but not GPS problems. Jul 15 16:13:47 raster: the GPS is going to output NMEA over the serial port once per second Jul 15 16:14:06 raster: we don't tell it when it can do that. it does it itself. we can't say "for this 20ms, don't use your radio". Jul 15 16:14:13 (I think this is SpeedEvil's point.) Jul 15 16:14:25 It needs a lock on the satellites all the time for optimum prformance. Jul 15 16:14:40 HDOP: 1.0 :D Jul 15 16:14:50 oh it was nice, I was out at the pool the other day Jul 15 16:14:59 I got a 6/4 fix in 0.5seconds :P Jul 15 16:15:15 SpeedEvil: i know it should cause only power problems Jul 15 16:15:16 mwester: So your stuff (or some equivalent) was never pulled into the mainline? Or am I just making the mistake of using a FSO kernel instead of one built from the 2007.2 branch? Jul 15 16:15:18 SpeedEvil: it is a hw issue Jul 15 16:15:31 SpeedEvil: of course, but the choise is - you fix the hw youself with a soldering iron Jul 15 16:15:38 everyone has to send their FR's back for repqair Jul 15 16:15:44 OR we work a software workaround Jul 15 16:15:54 raster: careful, that line could be taken out of context :) Jul 15 16:15:59 every product on the planet pretty much is full of software workarounds fo hw bugs Jul 15 16:16:10 it's true. Jul 15 16:16:30 and normally these are worked around like we are doing now long before release Jul 15 16:16:31 Dave: You got a gps fix on a FR in 0.5 seconds? Jul 15 16:16:35 yeah Jul 15 16:16:39 and without you even knowing there was an issue to start wtih Jul 15 16:16:40 but I agree it's totally flaky Jul 15 16:16:45 sometimes it takes five minutes Jul 15 16:16:59 or more, depending on location, time of day, and satellites in the sky, etc. Jul 15 16:17:05 wurp2|semi_away: Some of my stuff has not yet made it into the "stable" kernel; it'll get there when OM gets serious about fixing the problems that those patches address. Until then, they will continue to fuddle about with reliability issues with the GSM and data. Along with the kernel patches, i also have some APM configs to woraround known problems that still exist. Jul 15 16:17:07 raster: yeah, it's a shame that your test environment didn't pick this up. Jul 15 16:17:12 and other times you find out your internal antenna is broken! Jul 15 16:17:13 :D Jul 15 16:17:19 raster: s/your/FIC's/, of course Jul 15 16:17:23 * Dave whines at Speedevil Jul 15 16:17:24 cb22: i think we could "suspend" gps while doing sd io Jul 15 16:17:38 raster: suspend *what*? Jul 15 16:17:41 we should be able to suspend it without it losing its satellite and internal data Jul 15 16:17:42 raster: turn off the GPS radio? Jul 15 16:17:52 aleast for a short period while flushing out to sd or reading data Jul 15 16:18:11 Hello Mokos Jul 15 16:18:17 cjb: no suspend the whole unit Jul 15 16:18:25 put it in a paused state Jul 15 16:18:37 where it doesnt readany satellite data for a period of time Jul 15 16:18:39 then back on Jul 15 16:18:43 I search a Navigation tool and i want to have the tool navit but i can't find it. Jul 15 16:18:50 unblox may be able to help us here Jul 15 16:19:01 Do anyone know about Servers ? Jul 15 16:19:07 What servers? Jul 15 16:19:13 Navit Jul 15 16:19:29 hi all - anyone know how well the screen protectors from zagg.com fit together? Jul 15 16:19:34 http://aiurlano.netsons.org/OpenMoko/ipk/armv4t/ the link ist brocken Jul 15 16:19:39 The full size ones that is that goes front and back Jul 15 16:20:00 raster: you pretty fundamentally can't suspend easily for short periods with no consequences. Jul 15 16:20:22 ernst: I think navit should be in the standard 2007.2 repositories... Jul 15 16:20:36 SpeedEvil: how short, and which consequences? Jul 15 16:20:38 raster: Your noise and ability to hold the signal will always drop unfortunately. Jul 15 16:20:39 ernst: Did you try 'opkg update; opkg list | grep navit'? Jul 15 16:21:05 cjb: It really depends where the noise is getting in. Jul 15 16:21:20 cjb: if it's noise on the VCO, then that could have very bad effects. Jul 15 16:21:21 lets see Jul 15 16:21:28 i guess it's worth while to get the full body protector over just the screen protrector? Jul 15 16:21:31 sure - it will have consequences Jul 15 16:21:35 but maybe we can make it work Jul 15 16:21:36 mwester: Great, your stuff will be in SHR :-) Jul 15 16:21:37 opkg list | grep navit yes but no response Jul 15 16:21:50 ernst: You did opkg update first? Jul 15 16:21:50 ie if we can suspend for 200ms Jul 15 16:21:53 do some SDIO Jul 15 16:21:56 hen wake up again Jul 15 16:21:59 go suspend again for 200ms Jul 15 16:22:00 ajbrun, why do you need the full body? Jul 15 16:22:01 etc. etc. Jul 15 16:22:04 raster: it depends where the noise goes. Jul 15 16:22:04 :) Jul 15 16:22:05 no Jul 15 16:22:21 ernst: Please put my userid at the beginning of your messages, there's too much traffic to find them otherwise Jul 15 16:22:22 SpeedEvil: assuming the noise is gone as the sd clokc is off when sdio is off Jul 15 16:22:25 raster: if it's corrupting the GPS chipsets idea of accurate time, then it's basically got to re-lock. Jul 15 16:22:29 ernst: You'll need to Jul 15 16:22:37 ernst: Need to opkg update, that is Jul 15 16:23:06 we might be able to Jul 15 16:23:08 might not Jul 15 16:23:10 lets see Jul 15 16:23:17 raster: there are several possibilities - it's simply massive jamming signal. This will be - more or less - similar to walking under a tree. Jul 15 16:23:40 :wurp2|semi_away so response Jul 15 16:24:16 :wurp2|semi_away no response i mean Jul 15 16:24:22 raster: It could be corrupting the VCO, which will cause the time that the GPS chipset thinks it is to drift randomly when the SD clock is on. This will act as very random jumps in position, and horrible performance as it has to re-lock while 'impossible' things happen. Jul 15 16:25:07 raster: more actual in-detail tests and inspections of schematics may reveal stuff. Jul 15 16:26:21 Of course, this could be in combination with the bad soldering issue. Jul 15 16:27:24 i am just exploring a software-only fix Jul 15 16:27:29 here is a hw fix Jul 15 16:27:32 'as such Jul 15 16:27:38 we have one that is confirmed - i think Jul 15 16:27:48 raster: I agree - software nasty workarounds sound possible. Jul 15 16:27:51 but that hw fix isnt able to be updated "in the field" Jul 15 16:27:59 *IF* we can gte a sw only fix Jul 15 16:28:03 it will be a huge help Jul 15 16:28:04 if not Jul 15 16:28:07 TAsnn, is the full body one not worth it then? Jul 15 16:28:08 e are left with hw-only Jul 15 16:28:13 raster: I'd be returning mine under warranty I suspect if I was in the US and had bought one. Jul 15 16:28:24 i would too Jul 15 16:28:45 but om doesnt seem to like working under the normal market rules of producing a product that is hardware Jul 15 16:28:47 Are some not affected? Jul 15 16:28:56 i think in the factory Jul 15 16:29:02 the test rig had a really strong signal Jul 15 16:29:07 so it was never noticed Jul 15 16:30:07 raster: any idea why the hw fix isn't okay for the field? it's just adding a cap? Jul 15 16:30:43 is the back of the freerunner fairly scratch resistant compared to the screen? Jul 15 16:30:43 cjb: "the field" means u need no special equimpent Jul 15 16:30:50 nor do u need to buy any components Jul 15 16:30:58 if u need to go buy some cap Jul 15 16:31:03 and get your soldering iron out Jul 15 16:31:09 it is no longer an "in he field" update Jul 15 16:31:13 tho some may be ABLE to do it Jul 15 16:31:15 it is a select few Jul 15 16:31:17 oh, I see :) Jul 15 16:31:39 I don't think it's only "a select few" for OM owners who can use a soldering iron, but I agree that it's not the majority. Jul 15 16:31:40 a software/firmware update is in-thefield Jul 15 16:31:53 as it is kind of expected u have a pc of some sort Jul 15 16:31:56 and a usb connection Jul 15 16:32:06 and that u can use it to update Jul 15 16:32:10 (I would rather buy a cap and solder it than use the software hack, I guess.) Jul 15 16:32:29 also the runs and saps on the board of a phone are different to your 1980's beta-max Jul 15 16:32:39 it requiesa a muxh more skilled hand Jul 15 16:32:42 as its much finer-detail Jul 15 16:32:44 I know. I work for OLPC. Jul 15 16:32:51 And a young eye to actually see the damn things. Jul 15 16:32:55 (Our board is four-layer surface mount.) Jul 15 16:32:59 cjb: you do? cool :) Jul 15 16:33:03 even if it were the coars-grained electronics that your average soldering iron and hand can handle Jul 15 16:33:04 * SpeedEvil pours 100000 01005s over cjb. Jul 15 16:33:10 i'd say its not a field-upgradable fix Jul 15 16:33:10 SpeedEvil: hahaha Jul 15 16:33:15 * SpeedEvil notes cjb looks rather dusty. Jul 15 16:33:32 cjb: yeah - thats a whole level of complexity Jul 15 16:33:37 i do understand that YOU may be able to Jul 15 16:33:42 and we'll happily tell u how to do it Jul 15 16:33:48 *nod* Jul 15 16:33:54 i'm just thinking about the other 99.9% of buyers Jul 15 16:33:55 :) Jul 15 16:34:11 Modern components are silly. I'm currently putting a 32 bit 8M computer with SD into a board about 14*20mm Jul 15 16:34:17 microSD Jul 15 16:34:19 it would be a nice notion of community if some of us were willing to set up repair centers Jul 15 16:34:23 to do the ECO for people for free Jul 15 16:34:29 Dash uses OpenMoko right? Jul 15 16:34:35 Sargun: hardware only Jul 15 16:34:40 Sargun: kernel and drivers Jul 15 16:34:41 I think I'd do a few, if it were just a 10-20 minute fix. Jul 15 16:34:43 raster: there may be some qualified folks in metropolitan areas that could volunteer to do the soldering for people in the area... Jul 15 16:34:44 Sargun: no software Jul 15 16:34:51 retracile: right Jul 15 16:34:54 * doc|work stabs UPS Jul 15 16:34:57 SpeedEvil, Do you know how to get to the uBoot screen? Jul 15 16:35:02 cjb: i've mentioned before that perhaps we need tomake this community thing moe than just what it is Jul 15 16:35:05 RICHMOND, Jul 15 16:35:10 cjb: you beat me in the typing ;) Jul 15 16:35:13 Sargun: I think you might press the aux button when powering on - I've never used a FR. Jul 15 16:35:15 BC, CA 07/15/2008 5:38 A.M. REGISTERED WITH CLEARING AGENCY / SHIPMENT SUBMITTED TO CLEARING AGENCY Jul 15 16:35:22 allow community members to register to become authorised "Repair" and "cusotmisation" centers Jul 15 16:35:29 but at 10.45 AM it's departing philadelphia!? Jul 15 16:35:31 ie they know the FR in great dtail, hw and software Jul 15 16:35:35 but dont work for OM Jul 15 16:35:39 they can de-brick phones Jul 15 16:35:47 raster: we've done this for OLPC, it's working well Jul 15 16:35:52 reflash custom firmware imagesfor people Jul 15 16:35:57 http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Repair_centers Jul 15 16:36:00 and even do minor hw fixes Jul 15 16:36:11 OM would then support these "authorised" repairers Jul 15 16:36:12 cjb: the phone is quite less dissasemblable than the OLPC Jul 15 16:36:19 by offering parts at a discount Jul 15 16:36:22 cjb: the LCD is glued onto the board forex. Jul 15 16:36:26 offering actual phones at a discount Jul 15 16:36:30 SpeedEvil: ah. Jul 15 16:36:42 offering things like listing of "official repari centerclosest to you is... cjb!" Jul 15 16:36:43 etc. Jul 15 16:36:44 cjb: and that covers up the bluetooth and LCD connection points Jul 15 16:37:00 ajbrun: I order the full-body Invisishield, but if I'd seen a Freerunner first I would have just got a screen-protector. The back of the Freerunner's case is a thick matt black plastic and the sides are rubberised. I wouldn't worry about minor marks in it - I think it would be quite resistant, and they wouldn't show the way they might on a glossy-cased Nintendo DS Jul 15 16:37:08 so maybe these repair centers get to do warranty work like this and om pais for it Jul 15 16:37:10 pays Jul 15 16:37:19 raster: it sounds like a good plan. Jul 15 16:37:20 * SpeedEvil wants spare FR/neo cases. Jul 15 16:37:25 as it may be much cheaper to pay yopu $10/phone Jul 15 16:37:29 to resolder a cap Jul 15 16:37:33 than ship it back to taiwan Jul 15 16:37:35 fix it there Jul 15 16:37:35 I'm sure it would be. Jul 15 16:37:37 ship it back Jul 15 16:37:39 * SpeedEvil has a wifi upgrafe idea for GTA01. Jul 15 16:37:54 raster: and 5% breakage rate. Jul 15 16:37:55 but i guess it could also give birth to a whole set of vertical markets Jul 15 16:38:12 some of these "repair centers" Jul 15 16:38:16 can also offer extra services Jul 15 16:38:18 raster: We had a problem with some OLPC boards that required connecting up a serial console to fix Jul 15 16:38:21 like custom firmware images for clients Jul 15 16:38:25 eg government Jul 15 16:38:30 (disassemble laptop, attach serial connector, do fix, put back together, takes about 30 mins) Jul 15 16:38:32 or business Jul 15 16:38:35 anyway Jul 15 16:38:39 it was an idea bandied about Jul 15 16:38:44 and we couldn't find anything cheaper than just sending out new machines Jul 15 16:38:44 if ythe cumminity likes it Jul 15 16:38:52 * SpeedEvil passes raster an extra pack of 200 bandis. Jul 15 16:38:52 it 1. builds a world-wide support network fast Jul 15 16:39:09 TeNoVi: If you want your issues to go away, use mwester's fix from http://moko.mwester.net/fixes.html Jul 15 16:39:11 2. spreads the money around allowing these repair centers tomake a bit of money on their own to fund themselves if they want Jul 15 16:39:34 any company would charge like $100/hour for the rework, and shipping would kill having our people do it. the community repair centers are what made the rework for those machines possible. Jul 15 16:40:13 raster: we actually don't pay people for the OLPC rework. it's pretty shocking, but we found that people just wanted to help and were glad to replace things for people whose laptops had broken. Jul 15 16:40:18 where were u doing the fixes? Jul 15 16:40:49 the companies we looked at contracting were in Boston, our factory is in Shanghai/Taipei, and the community repair centers are all over. Jul 15 16:40:49 interesting Jul 15 16:40:56 i guss iw as being more commercially minded Jul 15 16:41:06 no such thing as a free lunch - i believe that Jul 15 16:41:13 so wondering how ot make ti work and scale Jul 15 16:41:16 yeah, I would have expected that too Jul 15 16:41:21 and in the end u'll have to accept stuff costs money Jul 15 16:41:24 parts, time etc. Jul 15 16:41:25 there's a lot of goodwill around the OLPC project, people believe in it Jul 15 16:41:36 it's remarkable that the goodwill is still there, because we do a pretty bad job of managing it sometimes Jul 15 16:41:37 i know i just dont have the time to do goodwill thingslike that Jul 15 16:41:38 but it's there Jul 15 16:41:41 I think OpenMoko is like this too Jul 15 16:41:42 my personal time is so valuable to me Jul 15 16:41:47 no way in hell would i do it Jul 15 16:41:52 but then i may be an exception Jul 15 16:41:55 as i'm so busy Jul 15 16:42:02 open soruce projects to work on Jul 15 16:42:04 om work Jul 15 16:42:06 the average OM owner would fix up someone else's OM for free, because they know it would suck if theirs broke, and they like helping people Jul 15 16:42:09 a real lie somehwre between them Jul 15 16:42:24 maybe i underestmate how many peolpe there are with nothing to do... Jul 15 16:42:25 :) Jul 15 16:42:28 maybe :) Jul 15 16:42:36 Stroller, does the full body one 'show' at all on the edges where the front meets the back? Jul 15 16:43:07 i know you wouldn't, but if it's a nice smooth fit, i might anyway since it's not too expensive Jul 15 16:43:40 ajbrun: I don't know - it hasn't arrived yet. Jul 15 16:43:49 ah lol :p Jul 15 16:44:16 when it due to arrive? Jul 15 16:46:06 ajbrun: I'm not sure. I think it's overdue. It's been 11 days now. Jul 15 16:46:47 ajbrun: I have two 20% discount codes here, BTW. Let me know if you want one. Jul 15 16:47:01 raster: a correction -- we actually said that repair centers can charge extra money if they want to, but no-one has so far. I guess they probably would start doing that if the number of repairs they got sent went up such that it wasn't easy to keep on top of them anymore. Jul 15 16:47:17 it sort of depends how many repair centers we end up with, how saturated they get. Jul 15 16:47:18 Stroller, that would be great Jul 15 16:47:44 Hail! Jul 15 16:47:53 i was going to search the net for one, but if you have one that you're willing to give, then that's sure ti work Jul 15 16:48:09 ajbrun, i think i will buy the screen only version. Jul 15 16:48:27 the full body of the fr seems to be durable enough. Jul 15 16:48:39 screen only it is then since 2 of you have said so Jul 15 16:48:42 i don't find any reason to protect the plastics from scratches. :) Jul 15 16:48:58 ajbrun, i might be wrong. Jul 15 16:49:40 ajbrun, anyhow, someone said 9 hours ago that he will be back with his fr and full body protector in 14 hours Jul 15 16:49:52 soon enough we will know if it's needed. Jul 15 16:49:53 :) Jul 15 16:50:10 k - i might order tomorrow then Jul 15 16:50:28 i don't like scratches, but i really want it to look good too Jul 15 16:50:45 i don't want much of a gap between the back protector and the front Jul 15 16:50:52 i really think shiny plastic looks cheap :) Jul 15 16:51:08 cjb: i guess thaqt depends Jul 15 16:51:12 see through shiny plastic? Jul 15 16:51:21 cjb: as i said.. i'm underestimateing how many people have extra time on their hands Jul 15 16:51:25 ajbrun, it will spark Jul 15 16:51:31 spark? Jul 15 16:51:34 cjb: then again what peolpe donate in repair cnters i know i donate in open code Jul 15 16:51:34 which i don't like Jul 15 16:51:37 so its the same thing Jul 15 16:51:43 ajbrun, shine, reflect light. Jul 15 16:51:46 ah Jul 15 16:51:50 ajbrun, i don't like that. Jul 15 16:51:54 but i can imagine u'd want to have a minimal fee just to avoid "stupid" send-ins Jul 15 16:51:57 i like mat finish :) Jul 15 16:52:00 so people need to think about it first Jul 15 16:52:09 before pestering you to fix their own mistakes for them Jul 15 16:52:39 i'll probably come back here tomorrow and see if anyone has their full protector yet, but it's looking likly that i'll be getting just the one for the screen Jul 15 16:53:06 Hmm, this python sure is annoying Jul 15 16:53:23 raster: yeah, we have a rule that we fix hardware problems only, nothing like reflashes or reinstalls. Jul 15 16:53:48 firmware upgrades possible too? Jul 15 16:54:01 ajbrun, what im more interested about is whether the protector affects responsiveness of the touch screen. Jul 15 16:54:01 stuff that can't be distributed Jul 15 16:54:19 i wouldn't have thought it should Jul 15 16:54:22 it's only 2mm Jul 15 16:54:31 TAsnn: marginally, and it's negated by the fact that you're less afraid of actually touching the screen :) Jul 15 16:55:13 cjb: the problem is when peolpe send things in that are not hw problems Jul 15 16:55:18 just because theyare too lazy to figure it out Jul 15 16:55:26 so u need to put an "incentive" price Jul 15 16:55:30 like $10 for a fix Jul 15 16:55:34 GAAAH - the freerunner deliver has been delayed by 10 days Jul 15 16:55:36 GRRRRR Jul 15 16:55:43 to make them go "well i'll spend a it of time myself trying to figure out if its hw or software" Jul 15 16:55:44 o.O Jul 15 16:55:56 europe is anyone cares Jul 15 16:56:42 ajbrun, wtf no!!! :( Jul 15 16:56:44 :P Jul 15 16:56:46 haha Jul 15 16:56:49 and apparently affects all freerunners Jul 15 16:57:02 We have just had an update from Openmoko saying that that our delivery of Jul 15 16:57:03 Freerunners has been delayed by new custom procedures in China. We were Jul 15 16:57:03 expecting to have these in our office and ready to send out to you on the Jul 15 16:57:03 18th July. However Openmoko are now telling us that they will not be able Jul 15 16:57:03 to ship them to us until 21st July so we now expect to have them ready to Jul 15 16:57:03 send out on 28th July. Jul 15 16:57:12 yep Jul 15 16:57:13 raster: yeah, that sounds plausible Jul 15 16:57:22 doc, so how's your freerunner? Jul 15 16:58:32 ouch Jul 15 16:58:47 and here I am contemplating working at home today to receive mien :P Jul 15 16:58:53 DaveLab: me? still waiting :/ should arrive today but UPS's tracking is all screwy so hard to tell Jul 15 16:59:13 doc|work: ups said mine arrived in Richmond already :O Jul 15 16:59:14 yeah, I wonder what's up with UPS Jul 15 16:59:17 from shipping yesterday Jul 15 16:59:26 raster: quick evas question, can i register callbacks for on-click on rectangles, lines, etc? Jul 15 16:59:49 kelvie: mine is registered for clearing there too :) not sure if that means it will clear today though and be out for delivery tomorrow or what the story is Jul 15 17:00:13 i just hope the 25th shipment from open moko . com won't delay too much! Jul 15 17:00:14 yeah.. mine's still scheduled for tomorrow though Jul 15 17:00:18 but I'm hoping :p Jul 15 17:00:24 since I live in Richmond anyways Jul 15 17:00:34 * kelvie should have sent it to his work address Jul 15 17:01:03 kelvie: ah, cool, mine was scheduled for today, that'd suck :) Jul 15 17:01:39 ecraven: yup Jul 15 17:02:04 hehe Jul 15 17:02:47 so, is this fix software only? Jul 15 17:03:18 I have an openmoko in hand Jul 15 17:03:34 doc|work: the fix is hardware. the software workaround might do the job, and if not there's a different and more complicated software workaround that might also do the job. Jul 15 17:03:51 How long does it take to register to the phone service? Jul 15 17:03:58 its mean saying "registering" for like 15 minutes Jul 15 17:04:08 then it's probably not reading your SIM? Jul 15 17:04:40 yeah, that's what it says when it can't talk to the SIM. Jul 15 17:04:46 cjb: hmmm, ok Jul 15 17:04:48 how do I fix it? Jul 15 17:04:58 sontek: try reseating it Jul 15 17:05:21 hahaha, and someone was all vigilant about UPS here Jul 15 17:05:24 i'm having that problem, have restarted several times - no luck' Jul 15 17:05:43 DaveLab: vigilant? Jul 15 17:05:52 you can try using libgsm-tool Jul 15 17:06:03 it might tell you whether AT commands are failing Jul 15 17:06:06 would it be best to power the freerunner off to try re-seating the sim? Jul 15 17:06:32 AntonTakk: you'll certainly need to remove the battery Jul 15 17:06:49 can always power via usb thou Jul 15 17:07:13 AntonTakk: when I had that I found that I had not locked the SIM card holder. Once you have pushed it down flat you need to slide it sideways. Note the "Lock ->" stamped in the holder Jul 15 17:07:35 I would personally power it off Jul 15 17:08:57 Yes Jul 15 17:09:13 * DaveLab pesters ecraven Jul 15 17:10:48 uh oh, It reseated it and now it wont power on Jul 15 17:10:51 raster: that is cool ;) are there some easy example applications i could learn of? Jul 15 17:10:54 the top button blinks red Jul 15 17:10:58 but it doesn't power on Jul 15 17:11:22 mine powered on as soon as i put the battery back in Jul 15 17:11:23 ecraven: aaaahmmmmmm Jul 15 17:11:43 ecraven: enlightenment cvs is full of code and examples Jul 15 17:11:49 but not really many ae small and easy Jul 15 17:11:50 and Jul 15 17:11:52 which button is the power button? Jul 15 17:11:57 i've hit both and its not powering up Jul 15 17:12:04 round one, next to the usb plug Jul 15 17:12:04 its plugged in as well Jul 15 17:12:11 have to hold it for a few seconds Jul 15 17:12:30 ahh, holding it works Jul 15 17:16:31 this interface is very cryptic :P Jul 15 17:16:36 I have no idea what those icons mean Jul 15 17:17:29 and when you send a message, the icons jump to the middle of the screen instead of staying at the bottom Jul 15 17:17:34 it's not a nuclear reactor - touch them and find out :) Jul 15 17:17:40 thats what i'm doing :P Jul 15 17:17:52 is it worth it to submit bug reports about this interface? or is it going away? Jul 15 17:17:54 lucky, phone-kit barfs on mine :( Jul 15 17:18:07 can't call of sms Jul 15 17:18:17 or* Jul 15 17:18:36 Wait, sontek! Let me hide in my concrete shelter before you press that! Jul 15 17:18:49 trying the tried and true "put paper behing it to hold it forward" :) Jul 15 17:19:23 AntonTakk: I also got my SIM the wrong way around the first time Jul 15 17:19:25 * Stroller blushes Jul 15 17:19:58 Stroller: see, the odd thing is the very first time i turned it on, i was able to make a call and it worked beautifully Jul 15 17:20:57 so, those of us with gta02s, are we going to get hung out to dry when the gta03 with official updates when gets released? :/ Jul 15 17:21:11 er, badly phrased ^ Jul 15 17:21:16 is there a way to switch to qwerty onscreen keyboard? Jul 15 17:21:45 doc|work: What do you mean? The programs should be usable on both Jul 15 17:22:20 I haven't used this style keyboard in years, its killing me :P Jul 15 17:22:55 ebbe: yeah, but to be fair the GTA01 owners don't seem to be so well supported at present Jul 15 17:23:09 ebbe: what Stroller said Jul 15 17:23:21 hehe! Ain't that the truth. Jul 15 17:23:24 Stroller: Why not? There are hardware issues (I have one too) Jul 15 17:23:40 ebbe: sorry? You have a GTA01? Jul 15 17:23:51 Stroller: Yes Jul 15 17:24:01 I understood that many of the new images didn't work on GTA01 Jul 15 17:24:16 Stroller: There are made versions that do Jul 15 17:24:27 I've tried ASU also Jul 15 17:24:32 sontek: http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Complete_QWERTY_Keyboard_On_The_Freerunner Jul 15 17:24:41 FSO, om2007.2 Jul 15 17:24:48 so be honest, who here caries their stylus around? :P Jul 15 17:24:48 Official versions or community versiosn? Jul 15 17:24:59 that thing is huge Jul 15 17:25:06 sontek: I would if I had cats Jul 15 17:25:09 sontek: I do :) Jul 15 17:25:10 I really like cats Jul 15 17:25:17 There are no official versions of ASU for the GTA01 Jul 15 17:25:19 sontek: although that's for a nokia n800, not for a phone :) Jul 15 17:25:20 Bunnies hate being picked up Jul 15 17:25:33 Stroller: ASU official, and new versions om 2007.2 community.. but who cares? Jul 15 17:25:46 I know the first thing i'm going to do is write on it with the pen Jul 15 17:25:51 is ASU what shipped with gta02? what does that stand for? Jul 15 17:26:07 * doc|work living xkcd :( Jul 15 17:26:08 All Sexed Up Jul 15 17:26:14 Actember (new month) Software Update Jul 15 17:26:19 lol Jul 15 17:26:22 hey, where'd the topic link go Jul 15 17:26:23 ? Jul 15 17:26:50 ASU is not shipped with the device; it's not ready yet. The 2007.2 (aka GTK) firmware is shipped. Jul 15 17:27:02 doc|work: it was sacrificed infavour of the gps mailinglist link, as the topic was too long for both Jul 15 17:27:20 :( Jul 15 17:27:50 doc|work: Why not dump the warning about not being a stable phone... It doesn't make sense anyway... Jul 15 17:28:00 doesn't this have wireless? Jul 15 17:28:01 rivalarrival: yeah it does :) Jul 15 17:28:04 wifi* Jul 15 17:28:06 ebbe: I just got the impression that right now you don't have so many options if you have a GTA01. I mean, I guess it's cool that the community is providing updates, but don't you think that really Openmoko should be supporting both devices in their images? it does make you think that GTA01 owners might get stitched up. But hopefully Openmoko will support all their devices in a single image once they get the frameworks stabilised Jul 15 17:28:41 The warning about a stable phone could be replaced with a link to an FAQ in the wiki Jul 15 17:29:11 doc|work: Yeah, but it could be summarized: "phone is not yet stable" Jul 15 17:29:30 that would leave enough room for the package update link. :) Jul 15 17:29:40 Yeah, but a lot of people come on here asking "how much `not stable' is it?" Jul 15 17:29:48 Stroller: I really don't complain, and have anyone else with a gta01 that? Jul 15 17:29:58 Stroller: Tell them to buy it and find out. :-) Jul 15 17:30:10 or, RTFM Jul 15 17:30:17 iits still a dev release Jul 15 17:30:59 Regardless Jul 15 17:31:58 they will sell it on ebay ") Jul 15 17:32:18 * GoldenHawk is still itchin' for his freerunner :/ Jul 15 17:32:45 an some unfortinate body will buy it an all is well Jul 15 17:32:49 ahh, so there is no ui/networkmanager type thing for wifi on it yet? Jul 15 17:33:18 sontek: not that i can find :) Jul 15 17:33:23 I'll work on that tonight :) Jul 15 17:33:25 thats easy enough Jul 15 17:34:00 I'm returning my iPhone today, is the Freerunner ready for prime time? Jul 15 17:34:12 No. Jul 15 17:34:19 but it is usable Jul 15 17:34:20 jeward: not even close Jul 15 17:34:22 just :) Jul 15 17:34:31 It's usable for very low levels of usable. Jul 15 17:34:34 So what do you get, a wee linux box that can make phone calls? Jul 15 17:34:36 jeward: but it can make phone calls :P Jul 15 17:34:49 SpeedEvil: it makes calls and can text, right? Jul 15 17:34:49 What about calendaring/alarms/e-mail? Jul 15 17:34:50 jeward: basically, and a very nice platform to hack on :) Jul 15 17:34:53 :) Jul 15 17:34:57 jeward: none of that is finished yet Jul 15 17:35:06 jeward: ah, now you're getting overly optimistic :) Jul 15 17:35:08 jeward: well there is a calendar for it though Jul 15 17:35:22 Can't you just drop something like Damn Small Linux on top of it? Jul 15 17:35:38 now that emacs has dbus support I should roll an fso-emacs image and write an elisp ui for dialing Jul 15 17:35:47 ha Jul 15 17:36:03 you laugh now but someone will do it Jul 15 17:36:12 You know it. :) Jul 15 17:36:35 "What, can't dial the phone from emacs!? Inconceivable!" Jul 15 17:36:49 today is my first full day with the freerunner. i trust the software enough to receive calls/sms. Jul 15 17:36:57 stallman: "Why hasn't someone done this yet?!" Jul 15 17:37:07 so its my everyday phone until i get tired of recharging it every 12 hours Jul 15 17:37:07 Oh, well, minimally, that would do the trick. Jul 15 17:37:15 jeward: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian Jul 15 17:37:19 I could use cron for calendaring... ;) Jul 15 17:37:34 donomo: 12 hours in standby? Jul 15 17:37:52 Wow, if you can drop debian on it, you're golden. Jul 15 17:38:25 TeNoVi: thats with a fair amount of playing around on it yesterday Jul 15 17:39:15 donomo: And the latest updates? Jul 15 17:39:17 jeward: I don't think the phone is working in those circumstances yet, though some hacking around with something like http://wiki.neilandtheresa.co.uk/Titchy_Mobile might be fruitful if you're interested in going that way Jul 15 17:39:18 donomo: But you used suspend/resume? Jul 15 17:39:42 ebbe: only what shipped. Jul 15 17:39:54 TeNoVi: havent heard of suspend/resume Jul 15 17:40:07 Would an HTC Universal be a good way to go presently? Jul 15 17:40:09 donomo: Battery life maybe a bit better with newest updates Jul 15 17:40:23 ebbe: is there an opkg command to do that? Jul 15 17:40:37 opkg update; opkg upgrade Jul 15 17:40:38 jeward: depends what you want, I have a universal at the moment myself (until my freerunner arrives) Jul 15 17:40:47 and it's a fairly nice phone in general Jul 15 17:40:49 but a bit delicate Jul 15 17:41:00 ebbe: k. though im not sure if opkg update is really updating anything. it complains of key signature errors Jul 15 17:41:00 As in easily damaged? Jul 15 17:41:04 yeah Jul 15 17:41:22 mine is currently in need of some repairs, for the second time for different issues Jul 15 17:41:26 donomo: Just try the upgrade Jul 15 17:41:29 So if you're upgrading to Freerunner, you must think it's the way to go. Jul 15 17:41:40 admittedly my phones tend to get slightly more rough treatment than most, due to them falling of bikes and stuff ;) Jul 15 17:41:49 off* Jul 15 17:41:56 :) Jul 15 17:42:19 If I try to opkg upgrade it just exits X, and you see the kernel messages or something like that... Jul 15 17:42:20 well, I think it's the way to go for me, because I want to hack around with a lot of the stuff on there Jul 15 17:42:24 and I don't tend to use my phone as a phone very often Jul 15 17:42:49 mostly it's a ebook reader, mapping device and "emergency" internet access Jul 15 17:42:53 I'll be falling back to the Treo 755P once I return the iPhone today. Jul 15 17:43:04 with me only making an actual phone call once every month or so Jul 15 17:43:17 TeNoVi: That's why I removed the "opkg upgrade" from the "getting started with your freerunner page". It breaks things too often. Jul 15 17:43:34 Primary thing for me would be SMS, then ssh, then phone, calendar, etc. Jul 15 17:43:52 Wops, then don't listen to me then.. :) Jul 15 17:44:08 hmm. I can't download the new "list" when I opkg update either. I get a 404 message. Any reason why? The internet connection is fine Jul 15 17:44:18 well, a universal will provide those things in one form or another (windows mobile has mobile putty, although that's a bit of a pain, or titchy mobile does a very nice job) Jul 15 17:44:37 or you can install openmoko on it Jul 15 17:44:52 but last time I tried the power management on the universal under openmoko was terrible Jul 15 17:45:04 and it runs very hot Jul 15 17:45:52 butand having a built in keyboard is handy Jul 15 17:46:28 but if you're likely to drop it at all, or have it get knocked around then it's maybe not the way to go Jul 15 17:51:19 Right :P Jul 15 17:51:27 a modular deal for input devices would be nice Jul 15 17:51:30 or whatever :] Jul 15 17:51:42 sorry for the really out of topic q Jul 15 17:51:51 but what's the english name for | Jul 15 17:51:52 ? Jul 15 17:51:57 for the sign | that is. Jul 15 17:52:26 what development environment do most people use on the moko? Jul 15 17:52:29 C? Java? Python? Jul 15 17:52:48 TAsnn: its a pipe Jul 15 17:52:58 not in linux Jul 15 17:53:04 the actual sign's name :) Jul 15 17:53:13 like + is plus and . is a dot ;) Jul 15 17:53:14 yes, its a pipe. Jul 15 17:53:30 sontek: C, C++, Python Jul 15 17:53:42 theres no name for this sign since its used nowhere else i Jul 15 17:53:50 i'd say. Jul 15 17:53:57 Tanuva, i doubt that. Jul 15 17:54:14 theres a mathematical use, but for that I only nkow the german name Jul 15 17:55:26 Why does the Internet setting configuration app in Qtopia crash the phone? Jul 15 17:55:27 Tanuva, what's that? Jul 15 17:55:46 modulo is the english name for the mathematical use iirc Jul 15 17:55:52 though the sign must have a name. Jul 15 17:56:52 no, modulo is something else Jul 15 17:57:10 modulo... isnt that % Jul 15 17:57:15 its the sign for what abs() does Jul 15 17:57:16 yes Jul 15 17:57:33 the absolute value of a number Jul 15 17:58:16 like 4%3=1 Jul 15 17:58:24 isn't % in programming languages? Jul 15 17:58:27 ebbe, so am I the odd man out, using perl? ;) Jul 15 17:58:28 Can I control the Neo via vnc? I've managed to do it the other way... Jul 15 17:58:29 TAsnn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_bar Jul 15 17:58:36 TAsnn: no, theres a difference between % and | Jul 15 17:58:43 because iirc 2|8 is 8%2 Jul 15 17:58:52 never heard of that Jul 15 17:58:53 Tanuva, ok ;) Jul 15 17:58:56 Ah okay Jul 15 17:59:00 fuzzyt, that's cheating. Jul 15 17:59:00 DaveLab: Well, maybe a little, byt aren't we all? :) Jul 15 17:59:03 hah! Jul 15 17:59:05 abs() Jul 15 17:59:06 True enough ;) Jul 15 17:59:07 is Jul 15 17:59:10 | | Jul 15 17:59:19 * DaveLab pokes Leinir Jul 15 17:59:28 abs(-5) is |-5| Jul 15 17:59:28 Hi again guys. Jul 15 17:59:35 ok, this is screwy, 5.38am, richmond canada, registered with clearing agency, 12.33pm arrival in Louisville kentucky? Jul 15 17:59:36 Where are all you Qtopia users? :P Jul 15 17:59:38 kelvie: ^ Jul 15 17:59:43 doc - ahahaha Jul 15 17:59:50 YOU'RE GOING THE WRONG WAY! Jul 15 17:59:56 * doc|work stabs UPS Jul 15 18:00:10 Actually it's funny, that's the way it likely has to travel. Jul 15 18:00:10 dont kill him Jul 15 18:00:24 * Chocky is a Qtopia "user" Jul 15 18:00:28 DaveLab: richmond is an hour from where I live, kentucky is ... not Jul 15 18:00:30 It's probably one of those, everything has to be routed through a primary distribution hub. Jul 15 18:00:34 kentucky = far far away Jul 15 18:00:34 or rather, I have it, but I'm not using the phone as such Jul 15 18:00:37 Doc, yeah but it's still, procedure :) Jul 15 18:00:40 still in san pablo Jul 15 18:00:41 doc, yeehaw? Jul 15 18:00:42 Just wondering: if I write files to /home/root (rather than to the SD card), where is the data stored? One of the NAND/NOR flash thingies? Jul 15 18:00:46 DaveLab: :/ Jul 15 18:00:54 Hey, I'm just telling you how it is. Jul 15 18:01:00 I wonder if they're pre-clearing the package, before it arrives Jul 15 18:01:04 Doc, believe me, I am frequently similarly pissed. Jul 15 18:01:14 Since there's a fucking transfer station less than a mile away from my house. Jul 15 18:01:16 as opposed to just clearing it? Jul 15 18:01:29 DaveLab: you should hijack the van Jul 15 18:01:30 Yet some packages being shipped to me, arrive there then get shipped to 35min away from me Jul 15 18:01:39 then back, for delivery, which is lame. Jul 15 18:01:48 haha Funny you should mention that Jul 15 18:02:20 One time it was an "emergency," or so I put it, so I called the company up, and they granted me clearance to pick it up at the txfr station :P Jul 15 18:02:25 It was a pain, though. Jul 15 18:02:30 Clearly they aren't designed to do this. Jul 15 18:03:45 DaveLab: nice Jul 15 18:04:05 Right Jul 15 18:04:24 Since openmoko-messages crashes for me, I want to manually access the new SMS I got. I found something on the wiki concerning that task (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_SMS) but the line cu -l /dev/ttySAC0 doesn't work for me. It returns cu: /dev/ttySAC0: Line in use. Does this mean another process is accessing that device? Jul 15 18:04:37 * Lo-lan-do writes some shell to preemptively download OSM tiles for TangoGPS for the whole town and neighbouring city Jul 15 18:04:46 I'm just thankful I didn't have to face the full wrath of the overbearing bureaucracy here :D Jul 15 18:05:05 I hope the tile.openstreetmap.org people don't keep a close eye on their logs. Jul 15 18:05:26 Like filling out ten thousand forms, and then getting them signed by six different people, and then bringing it back to the first, and then having to proceed in a similar manner with a secondary form... Jul 15 18:05:30 oy Jul 15 18:06:48 I wonder if there is an app so you can tune the mic on the freerunner so you can change your voice when calling people... :P Jul 15 18:07:02 spyre: not at the moment. Jul 15 18:07:06 spyr: Jul 15 18:07:23 There are a number of thoughts along that line. in the wiki. Jul 15 18:07:31 hehe nice Jul 15 18:07:36 openmoko: phones for stalkers Jul 15 18:07:43 Tabcompletion likes you SpeedEvil :P Jul 15 18:07:52 For example - if you find someone having an annoyingly high voice, you can frequency shift them down. Jul 15 18:07:55 Per number. Jul 15 18:08:08 sweet, auto attenuation Jul 15 18:08:14 hehe that would be awesum Jul 15 18:08:27 Can someone tell me about python-pygps? Jul 15 18:08:44 Pythons! On a GPS! Jul 15 18:08:53 SpeedEvil: haha Jul 15 18:09:01 Speedevil, not quite. Jul 15 18:09:12 I'm tired of these motherfucking snakes, on my motherfucking freerunner. Jul 15 18:09:20 They never seem to do what I tell them :( Jul 15 18:09:53 * SpeedEvil ponders snake - with accel. Jul 15 18:09:53 doc|work: kentucky... we're getting closer... Jul 15 18:10:26 macdonalder: marginally, it was supposed to be delivered today Jul 15 18:10:44 yeah, somehow it ended up on the east coast :S Jul 15 18:10:46 aw, I thought my moko was here but it was another package that I don't care much about. Jul 15 18:10:58 * cjb loses package roulette. Jul 15 18:11:06 Speedevil, you're an evil evil man, you know that? :P Jul 15 18:11:09 haha Jul 15 18:11:10 http://www.marcobarrera.com/games/snake.php Jul 15 18:11:18 macdonalder: want me to pick it up for you? :P Jul 15 18:12:04 mmm no thanks :P Jul 15 18:13:28 So where would I find the documentation (api), if any, for python-pygps? Jul 15 18:15:15 any idea on how to get opkg update to work in spite of signature failures? log: http://pastie.org/pastes/234020 Jul 15 18:16:16 donomo: It doesn't seem to cause problems. Jul 15 18:16:42 donomo: the signature check isn't the problem, the problem is that it's failing to download anything at all Jul 15 18:16:45 Lo-lan-do: in the pastie, the opkg upgrade fails to download any updates and suggests running opkg update Jul 15 18:17:09 Elleo: the net connection is good, or so i thought Jul 15 18:17:15 * donomo double checks Jul 15 18:17:16 Failed to download http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/all/Packages.gz, error 0 Jul 15 18:17:20 etc. Jul 15 18:17:36 it's not downloading the Packages.gz files in the first place Jul 15 18:17:44 Elleo: i took that as a badly worded way to say the signature failed Jul 15 18:17:50 Elleo: but i'll check the net connection Jul 15 18:18:28 try wgetting the file and see what happens Jul 15 18:19:47 ok...trying to setup a full development environment now (not just qemu like before). I'm guessing that I want to set it up as FSO. If I do that, then I can still install the apps from the 2007 and ASU repositories...right? (kinda like my own SHR-attempt) Jul 15 18:20:50 Elleo: fixed the net connection, but similar error: http://pastie.org/234030 Jul 15 18:21:57 donomo: I think the update should still have happened correctly, dispite the signature problem (there are no signature files at present) Jul 15 18:22:04 try doing the upgrade now and see what happens Jul 15 18:22:33 Yay! My phone just shipped! *boogies down* Jul 15 18:22:47 Good times ^.^ Jul 15 18:22:58 Elleo: ah its looking better so far. thx Jul 15 18:23:05 Wait, Dash uses OpenMoko hardware? Jul 15 18:23:37 no problem :) Jul 15 18:23:43 Sargun: openmoko designed Jul 15 18:24:01 Can I get the board design? Jul 15 18:24:06 or is it not open Jul 15 18:24:16 yes, and yes. Jul 15 18:24:21 Where? Jul 15 18:24:33 Buy, dissasemble, reverse engineer. Jul 15 18:24:36 wait, I can get the board design, but the board design is not open Jul 15 18:24:37 ah. Jul 15 18:24:37 ok Jul 15 18:24:40 * Chocky laffs Jul 15 18:24:45 I was hoping I could find the JTAG port Jul 15 18:24:50 I have one Jul 15 18:25:01 Oh - right. Jul 15 18:25:05 Does it have USB? Jul 15 18:25:24 they have the USB port as a virtual USB ethernet interface Jul 15 18:25:25 SpeedEvil: the debug board? Jul 15 18:25:37 raster: no - the dash Jul 15 18:25:46 oooh Jul 15 18:25:48 dunno Jul 15 18:25:54 i dont pay attention to dash Jul 15 18:25:57 CDC ethernet Jul 15 18:25:59 as its a us-only product Jul 15 18:26:03 Sargun: does anything interesting happen to the usb-ids on boot when you press keys? Jul 15 18:26:10 useless outside the usa Jul 15 18:26:11 :( Jul 15 18:26:31 Sargun: indicating there might be a serial entry into the bootloader like uboot Jul 15 18:26:32 Hmm. FR hasn't frozen yet today. Jul 15 18:26:38 SpeedEvil, I was in uBoot Jul 15 18:26:41 no serial entry Jul 15 18:26:46 :/ Jul 15 18:26:50 Seems removing the SD card has other positive side-effects :-) Jul 15 18:26:53 I assume no keyboard? Jul 15 18:26:59 no keyboard Jul 15 18:27:05 haven't yet taken it apart. Jul 15 18:27:30 dash as such isnt an "open device" Jul 15 18:27:39 it may happen to run linux Jul 15 18:27:46 and om may have happened to manufacture it for dash Jul 15 18:27:56 And it uses an OM kernel. Jul 15 18:28:22 Without I assume the glamo. Jul 15 18:28:40 They built their own kernel. Jul 15 18:28:50 ah Jul 15 18:29:01 What are we fighting over now? Jul 15 18:29:10 no glamo Jul 15 18:29:14 lucky them Jul 15 18:29:17 :) Jul 15 18:29:17 is there a clock app in opkg somewhere? Jul 15 18:29:36 see getting started guide Jul 15 18:29:36 * donomo really misses a clock on the phone Jul 15 18:29:42 k Jul 15 18:29:51 while true; do date;done Jul 15 18:30:26 while true; do festival speak `date`; done Jul 15 18:30:32 I'm now running qtopia from the SD card, if I do "opkg upgrade", will it still upgrade the packages on the "main system", which is 2007.2 or whatever it's called Jul 15 18:31:12 openmoko: 03zecke * rc5e172dc8df8 10/src/server/phone/callscreen/semithemed/ (callscreen.cpp callscreen.h): [qtopia] Do not launch a command on call changes. We will use dbus... Jul 15 18:31:12 openmoko: 03zecke * rbfd1f6cfb604 10/src/server/phone/callscreen/semithemed/ (callscreen.cpp callscreen.h): [power management] Do not suspend the device when we have active calls Jul 15 18:31:14 openmoko: 03zecke * r741502c03806 10/src/libraries/qtopia/qsoftmenubar.cpp: [softmenu] Do not show empty menus Jul 15 18:31:15 openmoko: 03zecke * r9de6c2b5db5a 10/src/libraries/qtopia/qsoftmenubar.cpp: [softmenu] Move the widget type check up Jul 15 18:31:17 openmoko: 03zecke * ra2808905d337 10/src/libraries/qtopia/qsoftmenubar.cpp: [softmenu] Disable/Enable the "Options" entry depending on having options Jul 15 18:31:20 vpv: if your / is the mounted sd, then the sd Jul 15 18:32:03 hmm.. so what's going to happen with the sdcard/GPS issue? Jul 15 18:32:08 will we be able to send it back? :( Jul 15 18:32:22 kelvie_work: It sounds probable. Jul 15 18:32:56 gah.. back to the US and back is almost 100 dollars Jul 15 18:32:57 opkg upgrade.. Restarting Dropbear SSH server: Connection to 192.168.0.202 closed by remote host. Jul 15 18:33:01 nice. Jul 15 18:33:04 thanks to UPS Jul 15 18:33:10 LetoTo: I'll have to check on that, but I think it had the SD card mounted in /media/something. Though how would it be able to run qtopia then? But anyways I'm now waiting for it to hopefully suspend... Jul 15 18:34:02 macdonalder: hmmm, now seems it's in vanc Jul 15 18:34:13 macdonalder: REGISTERED WITH CLEARING AGENCY / RELEASED BY CLR AGENCY. NOW IN-TRANSIT :D Jul 15 18:34:19 kelvie_work: how about yours? Jul 15 18:35:21 doc|work: UPS INTERNAL ACTIVITY still :p Jul 15 18:35:26 since 3am.. which I assume is when it gets off the airplane Jul 15 18:35:36 I'm scheduled for tomorrow nayways Jul 15 18:36:20 doc|work: yeah, I don't think that means it's here... it's just that customs work by people in richmod to pre-clear it has been done :S Jul 15 18:38:06 I'm just worried about sending it back now to get the GPS thing fixed :/ Jul 15 18:38:26 macdonalder: dunno, we'll see, but that seems to read like Registered with clearing agency has sub sections, one of which is "released by clearing agency and now in transit" Jul 15 18:38:26 even if you put "for repairs" on it.. customs will still charge you GST/PST for the actual value of the thing Jul 15 18:39:10 I can't get trough with opkg upgrade. It just stops, and I've to restart the phone. When I run opkg upgrade again, it starts over again Jul 15 18:41:56 hey Jul 15 18:41:56 Oh, actually it doesn't seem to be openmoko-messages which segfaults for me. It seems to be libgsmd which segfaults if I want to read SMS. How can I make this right or investigate further? Should I file a bug report or is this already known? Jul 15 18:42:25 I'm trying to share my internet connection following this procedure (I'm ubuntu) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner Jul 15 18:42:25 TeNoVi: Run opkg upgrade inside screen, or from the OM terminal. Jul 15 18:43:09 but this implies to modify the /etc/network/interface file which I do not want (it's monitored by networkmanager). is there a way to share the connection without touching this file ? Jul 15 18:43:45 AciD: yes, usb networking via dnrd Jul 15 18:44:22 AciD: check the wiki, usb networking, then somewhere on the site you'll find a script for dnrd and the source for it.. just install the software and everytime you want to set up the usb network run the script Jul 15 18:44:40 hum hum Jul 15 18:44:46 AciD: it's really easy Jul 15 18:44:55 AciD: if you stop the script everything is back to normal Jul 15 18:45:04 AciD: so no danger at all Jul 15 18:45:09 i'll try that if I find the thread Jul 15 18:45:14 thx for the tip Jul 15 18:46:16 AciD: look on the Ubuntu forums about internet connection sharing and see the "Ubuntu" or networkmanager way of doing it. Jul 15 18:46:54 I'm not sure the FR is currently on the same level of newbie-friendliness as Ubuntu. Jul 15 18:47:22 * Stroller breathes a sigh of relief that his internet connection is up Jul 15 18:47:26 Fucking pets Jul 15 18:47:36 I'll have to buy a spare telephone cable Jul 15 18:48:38 Stroller: hah, someone I worked with had that problem too. Rabbit chewed numerous mouse cables Jul 15 18:49:24 fucking pets is generally frowned upon Jul 15 18:49:49 They're little shits, man Jul 15 18:50:15 anyone using the mediaplayer? Jul 15 18:50:19 s/they're/their Jul 15 18:51:12 Arg0naut: yes Jul 15 18:51:54 Now they're down the other end of the room, looking all lop-eared & adorable. Jul 15 18:52:22 Stroller: dinner! Jul 15 18:52:30 A water-pistol has been very effective at training them off chewing cables, but sometimes they just can't resist. Jul 15 18:52:35 hahaha Jul 15 18:52:39 doc|work: :P Jul 15 18:52:51 Stroller: water + cables = magic smoke escape Jul 15 18:53:03 when misaimed Jul 15 18:53:10 I don't think I could ever eat rabbit again. It was excellent last time I had it. Jul 15 18:53:15 hehehe Jul 15 18:53:44 they should allow you to GPS track UPS vans :o Jul 15 18:53:46 I've stayed in this gite in Provence a couple of times - the owner is the most AMAZING cook Jul 15 18:54:52 doc|work: they should just switch on the FR, so you can track your device on the way ;) Jul 15 18:55:32 edistar: haaha Jul 15 18:55:39 edistar: probably wouldn't get a fix :) Jul 15 18:55:49 Lo-lan-do: (sry was away) I'm running the opkg upgrade from the OM terminal. Jul 15 18:55:51 doc|work: depends on the microSD ;) Jul 15 18:56:10 hehe Jul 15 18:56:30 has anyone got a patched kernel? Jul 15 18:56:31 Can anyone add "http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Special:Random" to the Wiki navigation menu again? :P Jul 15 18:56:36 I wonder if I should refuse the package when it arrives :O Jul 15 18:56:45 so I don't have to send it back to get the GPS fixed (if necessary) Jul 15 18:56:52 kelvie_work: it might not be :/ Jul 15 18:56:55 or would that be bad :p Jul 15 18:57:09 doc|work: what might not be? it may not be broken? :p Jul 15 18:57:26 kelvie_work: it might not be necessary to do a hardware fix Jul 15 18:57:30 oh Jul 15 18:57:35 it seems likely Jul 15 18:57:47 then again if it isn't _too_ difficult I could hack it myself (in the OpenMoko spirit :p) Jul 15 18:57:49 you might even be able to ship to koolu maybe? that'd be much nicer Jul 15 18:57:55 At best the software workaround is a dairly broken hack. Jul 15 18:57:58 fairly. Jul 15 18:58:00 yes Jul 15 18:58:01 yeah Jul 15 18:58:12 In that you access the SD, and it jams your GPS. Jul 15 18:58:15 either way it's ~100$ round trip Jul 15 18:58:22 to the US and back Jul 15 18:58:26 kelvie_work: should be covered by warranty Jul 15 18:58:34 kelvie_work: no, koolu are in canada Jul 15 18:58:37 oh Jul 15 18:58:42 they're just a distributor though Jul 15 18:58:54 wasn't there a guy from koolu here? :p Jul 15 18:58:56 might be able to fix things though Jul 15 18:59:00 kelvie_work: yes! :) Jul 15 18:59:05 * doc|work can't remember who Jul 15 18:59:17 either way I'm not that optimistic Jul 15 19:02:02 anyone had issues with fr not registering via gsm? Jul 15 19:02:21 I do Jul 15 19:02:21 stephelton: yep, reseat the sim card seems to work for most Jul 15 19:02:35 how do you do that doc|work ? Jul 15 19:02:39 It may or may not be possible for someone near you to do the work to repair the GPS. More details on hyow OM's going to handle it need to come out. Jul 15 19:02:44 AciD: take it out, put it back in again :) Jul 15 19:02:45 ah, re-seat Jul 15 19:02:49 hehe Jul 15 19:02:50 not reset Jul 15 19:02:51 whats the status of porting apps to the openmoko? Is it just if they can run on the processor it has? Jul 15 19:02:51 :) Jul 15 19:02:55 :) Jul 15 19:03:01 so something that has been ported to n810, should be easy? Jul 15 19:03:07 easier :) Jul 15 19:03:30 stephelton: yes, when the card wasn't inserted properly. I had it the wrong way round. You also need to slide the SIM card holder into the "Lock ->" position once its closed Jul 15 19:03:32 sontek, well, mostly you need to take into account the limited resolution and stuff Jul 15 19:03:40 fr keeps asking for pin code, but 0000 (which is mine uber pin code) just don't pass the verification. any ideas why ? Jul 15 19:03:56 Stroller: doc|work thanks i'll play around with it Jul 15 19:04:11 the pin code outputs * instead of real letter and numbers so I can't check what's the output.. Jul 15 19:04:21 AciD: that can mean that the SIM is incompatible electrically, I think Jul 15 19:04:31 whats the browser called? I don't see a menu entry for it Jul 15 19:04:32 avtobiff: there was some community@ or device-owners@ thread about it Jul 15 19:04:33 :( Jul 15 19:04:37 Anyone have an idea about when you can buy a fr with a gps antenna that works? Jul 15 19:04:44 AciD: you got a quite new SIM card, don't you Jul 15 19:04:55 sontek: opkg install openmoko-browser2 and then it should appear in the menu Jul 15 19:04:56 new from last summer Jul 15 19:04:59 at the very bottom Jul 15 19:05:14 AciD: if possible, try an older model SIM-card if you have Jul 15 19:05:24 fuzzdk: it seems all of this just got found out today, so until the OM guys say anything everyone's just guessing at this point Jul 15 19:05:39 i'll give it a try with my other phone, as soon as I manage to share my internet connection and update the FR Jul 15 19:05:46 thx for the tips guys Jul 15 19:05:52 It seems unlikely that they're going to ask all 2k+ of us to send our phones all back for repair... Jul 15 19:05:56 Ok. thanks for the info. Don't know if I should cancel my order. Jul 15 19:06:02 same Jul 15 19:06:08 it arrives tomorrow.. considering just sending it back Jul 15 19:06:21 but I should email them first Jul 15 19:06:23 AciD: try deactivating the sim verification and then try it in the FR again Jul 15 19:06:48 edistar > how so ? Jul 15 19:07:00 AciD: no idea, but it worked for me Jul 15 19:07:11 AciD: in my normal phone I could deactivate pin entry Jul 15 19:07:31 kelvie_work: they'll do it in software if they possibly can. that doesn't mean the hardware fix won't be a good idea anyway, though. Jul 15 19:07:32 hi guys and gals Jul 15 19:07:47 edistar > you mean desactivating the pin verification in another phone ? Jul 15 19:07:49 cjb: it seems pretty tough to fix via software (as mentioned a bit earlier) Jul 15 19:08:00 AciD: yes Jul 15 19:08:02 yes, hence "possibly can". Jul 15 19:08:16 is there a way to hit 'up' in the terminal, so I can repeat a command? Jul 15 19:08:26 but since mine isn't here yet (still at the airport), I can just refuse the package and cancel Jul 15 19:08:27 I'd assume Jul 15 19:08:47 edistar > that would mean the sim card keeps that "don't verify my pin" information on it, hum, weird Jul 15 19:08:53 hello guys Jul 15 19:09:02 I'm newbie for this mokoopen Jul 15 19:09:12 sorry openmoko Jul 15 19:09:20 AciD: it does save that information, yes Jul 15 19:10:20 i just missed the package from UPS. :( Jul 15 19:10:27 newbieguyforlinu: Welcome. So are a lot of us. Jul 15 19:10:38 could anyone tell me, where can i get architecture of openmoko? Jul 15 19:10:40 trix: sucks to be you. Jul 15 19:11:07 newbieguyforlinu: what do you mean? Jul 15 19:11:08 eeerival: no Exception :( Jul 15 19:11:31 trix: I'm staring out my front window, trying to prevent just that scenario. Jul 15 19:11:37 haha Jul 15 19:11:40 that's great Jul 15 19:11:42 newbieguyforlinu: arm4 Jul 15 19:11:45 architecture for openmoko Jul 15 19:12:33 what to give presentation on openmoko? Jul 15 19:12:53 but not getting detail information about openmoko Jul 15 19:12:55 trix: Look who just pulled up! :) Jul 15 19:13:07 edistar are u there Jul 15 19:13:15 Maybelline: sad eyes Jul 15 19:13:39 lucky. Jul 15 19:13:46 newbieguyforlinu: have you looked at the wiki pages? Jul 15 19:13:56 newbieguyforlinu: sorry? Jul 15 19:14:04 edistar > I tried the "gta01" dnrd script with the fresjly compiled dnrd 2.20.3 and got this error : ERROR: Could not chdir to /usr/local/etc/dnrd, No such file or directory Jul 15 19:14:16 edistar > have you already seen that before ? Jul 15 19:14:31 yeah, you have to ./configure, make, make install the source provided Jul 15 19:14:33 yes Jul 15 19:14:44 edistar > I did that already Jul 15 19:14:59 AciD: and that worked without any errors? Jul 15 19:14:59 I jsut compiled and installed it Jul 15 19:15:02 AciD: remember to give ./configure a proper --prefix option Jul 15 19:15:02 yes Jul 15 19:15:11 not sure how I fixed that.. Jul 15 19:15:32 edistar please help me Jul 15 19:15:36 mw| > which kind of prefix ? /usr/local ? Jul 15 19:15:48 newbieguyforlinu: what exactly do you need to know? Jul 15 19:16:11 AciD: that would depend on where you want it to be installed. Most used is either / /usr or /usr/local Jul 15 19:16:11 AciD: somehow I seem to have that directory Jul 15 19:16:30 /usr/local is the default, as seen above, where it expects to find its config files Jul 15 19:16:34 i need to given presentaion on architecture of openmoko Jul 15 19:16:42 newbieguyforlinu: okey Jul 15 19:16:49 newbieguyforlinu: it is based on an arm processor Jul 15 19:16:55 newbieguyforlinu: but is similar to a pc.. Jul 15 19:16:57 make install probably should have made /usr/local/etc/dnrd and put some config files there Jul 15 19:17:13 newbieguyforlinu: 128mb ram etc, flash memory as hdd, card reader for expansion Jul 15 19:17:21 language barrier... English isn't his first language. Jul 15 19:17:36 noooooooooo Jul 15 19:17:39 " Jul 15 19:17:41 making.. Jul 15 19:17:42 Your package is in the UPS system and has a rescheduled delivery date of 07/16/2008. " Jul 15 19:17:45 arses! Jul 15 19:17:49 * doc|work stabs UPS Jul 15 19:18:05 doc|work: tomorrow? Jul 15 19:18:09 yeah Jul 15 19:18:14 edistar-> MMI modules is communicating using d-bus right Jul 15 19:18:22 doc|work: I had to use 'date' to find that out ;) Jul 15 19:18:28 any grounds for ringing ups and bitching and whinging at them? Jul 15 19:18:39 expedited delivery my arse Jul 15 19:19:12 calling UPS is probably going to speed everything up, or perhaps not :-p Jul 15 19:19:22 edistar Jul 15 19:19:33 newbieguyforlinu: MMI? Jul 15 19:19:42 MMI = man machine interface Jul 15 19:19:48 * AciD slaps dnrd installer with userfriendlyness Jul 15 19:19:49 ok, UPS are now on my list Jul 15 19:19:55 mw|: ah, ok Jul 15 19:19:56 man mechine interface Jul 15 19:20:09 Woo.. Freerunner arrived! Jul 15 19:20:26 newbieguyforlinu: no idea, sry Jul 15 19:20:27 *envy* Jul 15 19:20:28 * doc|work shakes fist! Jul 15 19:20:41 anyone can help me? Jul 15 19:20:52 can anyone help me? Jul 15 19:21:00 help with gps?;-) Jul 15 19:21:20 ask Jul 15 19:21:24 newbieguyforlinu: dont ask for help, ask ur question. we cant know in advance if we can help you Jul 15 19:21:32 newbieguyforlinu: What's your native language? Jul 15 19:21:44 not english sorry Jul 15 19:21:49 I'm really pissed now Jul 15 19:21:56 some local language Jul 15 19:22:07 why doc|work Jul 15 19:22:13 because UPS suck Jul 15 19:22:31 you spend 125 dollars on expedited delivery and it's late Jul 15 19:22:44 * Tanuva loves being in europe and having his fr since >a week :) Jul 15 19:22:47 I'm Q is very simple, mmi module will communicate with other modules ( like lower layers) Jul 15 19:23:04 I wonder if UPS is generally broken at the moment. My FR's location didn't get updated for 3 days, etc. Jul 15 19:23:04 doc|work: you spent 525 bucks on your freerunner? Jul 15 19:23:10 10 pack Jul 15 19:23:16 eeerival Jul 15 19:23:23 but I spent close to 500 on mine Jul 15 19:23:30 did u get my q? Jul 15 19:23:33 UPS charges $45 US brokerage fees Jul 15 19:23:40 eeerival Jul 15 19:23:42 + GST + PST in Canada (which adds up to 13% here) Jul 15 19:23:52 and btw. the ~$30 microsd card from amazon.com appears to work fine in the freerunner. Jul 15 19:24:01 gmaxwell: what size is that? Jul 15 19:24:08 gmaxwell: if you don't want gps, right? :P Jul 15 19:24:09 oh sorry! hehe 8gb Jul 15 19:24:10 newbieguyforlinu: no. I think you are trying to tell people about the openmoko freerunner. Is that correct? Jul 15 19:24:33 about mobile phone stack Jul 15 19:24:45 edistar > you do have a /usr/local//etc/dnrd file ? Jul 15 19:24:57 AciD: yes Jul 15 19:25:14 edistar: Whats this about don't want GPS? does it break gps? (I've had the thing unboxed for about 10 minutes now. Jul 15 19:25:34 gmaxwell: read the last link in the topic Jul 15 19:25:44 they found out what was screwing with GPS.. it's the sd card reader Jul 15 19:26:16 newbieguyforlinu: Is this what you are looking for? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NeoSoftwareStack Jul 15 19:26:16 gmaxwell: signal gets much weaker whenever there is a sd card inserted Jul 15 19:26:21 gmaxwell: there's some electrical noise from the SD controller's clock hitting the GPS antenna, we think. Jul 15 19:26:35 from the post on the ML it seems that the SD card only breaks the GPS reception when it's powered on Jul 15 19:26:48 edistar: Oh boy, THAT'S gay. Jul 15 19:26:53 sitwon: which it always is, when inserted. Jul 15 19:27:02 :) okay. Jul 15 19:27:06 rivalarrival: please consider finding a different pejorative. Jul 15 19:27:13 cjb, currently, due to a power management bug... Jul 15 19:27:36 cjb: is it not possible to temporarily power down the slot? Jul 15 19:27:42 cjb, my bad... That's a sack of crap. Jul 15 19:27:46 sitwon: yup, being looked at now Jul 15 19:27:50 rivalarrival: much better :) Jul 15 19:27:52 ya Jul 15 19:28:07 sitwon: hopefully that'll help. Jul 15 19:28:36 I wonder if it's possible to just change the clock rate, rather than powering it down entirely Jul 15 19:28:49 me too. Jul 15 19:28:52 cjb: not a real "solution", but I agree, it's better than nothing Jul 15 19:28:54 mmontour, someone said the source seems to imply it's possible Jul 15 19:28:57 we have a bluetooth gps antenna for another phone here, do you think that could be used with OM? Jul 15 19:28:57 mmontour: it's being handled by the glamo, and everyone should know how much the glamo can do.. Jul 15 19:28:58 but this design is very complicated to understand Jul 15 19:29:10 LionKMP: of course Jul 15 19:29:17 but yeah, if possible, different sd clocks should be experimented with Jul 15 19:29:21 ~blame the glamo Jul 15 19:29:22 * apt blames the glamo (and Canada) for all the evil in the world Jul 15 19:29:33 edistar > hum, could you paste the content of your dnrd file somewhere ? Jul 15 19:29:37 edistar: is there a driver? I don't even know type, it says "WayFinder" (hehe, what else) Jul 15 19:30:05 newbieguyforlinu: Yes, it is. Try looking around the wiki. Ask about each part. Jul 15 19:30:09 LionKMP: google for the model and "linux", and if it works on linux in general it will work on the OM. Jul 15 19:30:10 eeerival-> are u running on target or on host system Jul 15 19:30:30 newbieguyforlinu: I am eeerival. Jul 15 19:30:31 cjb: ok thanks (well, if I can find the type, but I'll try :) ) Jul 15 19:30:32 If SD card interferes w/ GPS it would make it difficult to use both concurrently, which might be a requirement for some applications Jul 15 19:30:36 so much for having almanac data *on* the SD card Jul 15 19:30:40 ok Jul 15 19:30:44 trix: haha Jul 15 19:31:02 LionKMP: Bluetooth has a general "rfcomm" serial-port driver that will probably work - just set that up and then tell gpsd (or whatever) to read from that device instead of /dev/ttySAC1 Jul 15 19:31:03 which one your are using as target? Jul 15 19:31:34 newbieguyforlinu: I don't understand what you are asking. My phone hasn't been delivered yet. Jul 15 19:31:42 trix, that's silly, it doesn't take long to read them from there Jul 15 19:32:03 ok fine , how ur testing now? Jul 15 19:32:19 sitwon, depends. How much SD I/O you're really doing in how large bursts... Jul 15 19:32:30 mmontour: ok, thanks, noted down, will try (when my fr arrives this week :) )! Jul 15 19:32:43 newbieguyforlinu: I am not testing yet. I will start on Thursday. Jul 15 19:32:47 anyway, there was some potential mentioned what with increasing the gps chip voltage, but don't know more about that Jul 15 19:33:04 mjr: I think Andy said it didn't seem to help but he was committing it anyway. Jul 15 19:33:14 I have a general question for y'all. I want to develop applications for openmoko. I understand there are several distributions? What distributions run what kinds of applications? Is there a method of making applications that is most likely to continue to work in future generations of the OS software? Jul 15 19:33:40 could you please tell me , where can i get this h/w? Jul 15 19:33:45 cjb, the µsd shutdown patch? Jul 15 19:33:46 doc|work: LOL @ your shipping woes. UPS, pronounced "oops". Considering the quality of their service, it is entirely appropriate that they chose brown as their company colour. Jul 15 19:33:50 mjr: reading maps from SD, or logging data to SD (such as wardriving), listening to music from the SD while using GPS for navigation.... Jul 15 19:34:22 that's what buffers are for Jul 15 19:34:27 mmontour: hahaha Jul 15 19:34:31 mmontour: yeah :/ Jul 15 19:34:42 hum, dnrd is supposed to be installed on the host right, not the FR ? Jul 15 19:34:48 GoldenHawk: hard to tell Jul 15 19:34:50 rivalarrival? Jul 15 19:34:58 cjb, in that case it's curious if the glamo really every shuts the sd clock off.. Jul 15 19:35:07 GoldenHawk: make the unix compatible and possibly design UI with glade Jul 15 19:35:11 *them Jul 15 19:35:18 newbieguyforlinu: Try openmoko.com. The US version is sold out. The European version is supposed to ship on the 25th. Jul 15 19:35:28 i hear glade can later regenerate your UI for various toolkits Jul 15 19:35:59 rivalarrival: 25th? I'll get mine from from Golden Deli sooner I think. (they wrote, at least) Jul 15 19:36:37 LionKMP: I could be wrong... that's the schedule I heard, though... Jul 15 19:37:20 how does one type the slash character ( / ) with the onscreen keypad? Jul 15 19:37:21 (Sorry about that) Jul 15 19:37:39 Is it me or is tangogps.org cybersquatted? Jul 15 19:37:40 BuzzBlaster: copy & paste Jul 15 19:37:42 BuzzBlaster, one doesn't with the 2007.2 default :] Jul 15 19:37:49 balrog-k1n: If I understand correctly there's a specification being made for the structure of the system and libraries and such for interoperability purposes, that will hopefully allow you to run a number of different compliant UIs.. I wonder if these UIs will require software to be specific to them in some way? Jul 15 19:37:50 Buzzblaster: We went over this earlier... The consensus is that one does not do that with the default keyboard. Jul 15 19:38:32 We got so far as to copy/pasting from another file in vi, but there's no esc key to get back to command mode. Jul 15 19:38:59 "Press START to begin GPS" .. DIE! there is no start! Jul 15 19:39:21 gmaxwell: no - no. 'There is no try!' Jul 15 19:39:53 mjr: is it available on the qtopia stack? Jul 15 19:40:33 *shrug* Jul 15 19:41:21 lpotter: ping Jul 15 19:41:32 GoldenHawk: i don't know if any of these concerns the UI Jul 15 19:41:46 Any suggestion how I can identify the number (or the text itself) of the SMS that I just received? I cannot read them, neither with cu (ERROR) nor with openmoko-messages (segfault) nor with libgsmd-tools (segfault). I'd love to read that SMS. \-: Jul 15 19:41:51 GoldenHawk: i'm pretty sure gtk will almost always be available Jul 15 19:42:09 balrog-k1n: I'll keep that in mind. Thanks. Jul 15 19:43:05 GoldenHawk, generally X11 will be at the bottom, that should provide the means to run software built with different toolkits Jul 15 19:43:14 malik1972: pong Jul 15 19:43:33 lpotter: what was wrong with the power status? Jul 15 19:43:54 it didnt work, because it was setup to use apm Jul 15 19:44:27 apm on the 1973 works fine, but on the freerunner, it doent give any useful battery status info Jul 15 19:44:42 lpotter: with other words it showed me a wrong scala Jul 15 19:44:52 Weeee.. and indeed.. the GPS is not working for me with the SD card installed. Jul 15 19:45:03 Is there a way I can try shutting off the sd card from software? Jul 15 19:45:14 mjr: Okay it's making sense to me now.. like how you can run a gnome program under KDE Jul 15 19:45:37 lpotter: i wondered as qtopia was usable for one day and then asking for more juice Jul 15 19:46:14 lpotter: here are some suggestions, recalibrations does not intelligent Jul 15 19:46:47 lpotter: if i do a mistake, its hard to get a working calibration Jul 15 19:47:37 anyone knows if trisoft provides a warranty ? Jul 15 19:47:41 if it finds the data is too weird it will not write Jul 15 19:47:55 MarcOChapeau: not on their website? Jul 15 19:48:17 doc|work: couldn't find it... Jul 15 19:48:53 lpotter: with the version of yesterday: it resumed in about 90 % of suspend cases and also from a call in suspend mode:-) Jul 15 19:49:12 lpotter: it wrote it Jul 15 19:49:43 you want it to wake when a call comes in Jul 15 19:50:07 hmm.. or are you just reporting that it worked :) Jul 15 19:50:16 lpotter: for me it worked Jul 15 19:50:33 cnwdup: libgsmd-tool will segfault if you just type "sl" - it wants a command like "sl=foo" (but I don't remember what "foo" is) to list SMSs Jul 15 19:50:39 ya, but then the display gets crud on it Jul 15 19:50:56 yeah Jul 15 19:51:04 mmontour: Will try that. Thanks for the hint! Jul 15 19:51:06 lpotter: the calibration tool should restart if the data is weird Jul 15 19:51:15 lpotter: thats correct Jul 15 19:51:18 malik1972: it does Jul 15 19:51:23 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_SMS might also have some hints Jul 15 19:51:29 try doing wonky points Jul 15 19:52:14 lpotter: i did it by mistake and was really lost Jul 15 19:53:08 lpotter: how can i redefine the hotlinks? Jul 15 19:53:39 which 'hotlinks'? you can have applications to the speeddial Jul 15 19:53:59 lpotter: yes, i mean the speed dial entries Jul 15 19:54:36 select one of the 'Set..." Jul 15 19:54:36 mmontour: I already tried that. But cu gives ERROR on querying the SMS list. libgmsd-tool now gives cme error: 321. Do you know what that means? Jul 15 19:54:45 lpotter: is the battery status fixed in todays version? Jul 15 19:55:14 lpotter: i selected a set, but i want to reselect another on that spot Jul 15 19:55:17 sorry, I don't know. Jul 15 19:55:42 i have my time set to 14:55 and my time zone set to chicago (-0600) but somehow my clock is saying 9:55 Jul 15 19:56:00 Summertime? Jul 15 19:56:00 malik1972: hmm.. seems no way to select for options on touchscreen :) Jul 15 19:56:11 malik1972: will report that one Jul 15 19:56:54 lpotter: how long the battery survives with qtopia and usual doings Jul 15 19:57:16 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r2fa673a5ffee 10/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Jul 15 19:57:16 freesmartphone.org: tests: add test for ogsmd. NOTE: should later be enhance to feature Jul 15 19:57:16 freesmartphone.org: different other subsystems as well etc. Jul 15 19:57:17 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r24389c80baf9 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/abstract/mediator.py: ogsmd: Improve stability of GetStatus() Jul 15 19:57:18 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r3ce49ebcbe3e 10/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Jul 15 19:57:20 freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: fix some bugs found by adding more testing code: Jul 15 19:57:22 freesmartphone.org: * CallListCalls needs to derive from MiscMediator Jul 15 19:57:24 freesmartphone.org: * [TI CALYPSO] ReleaseAll was not implemented Jul 15 19:57:26 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r2c3f174e7cf8 10/tests/ogsmd.py: use option parser for tests Jul 15 19:57:29 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r79540c7cad3d 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): ogsmd: CallCancelTest now works Jul 15 19:57:38 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07python-helpers * r1c4a036b2484 10/mickeydbus/mdbus: mickeydbus: optionally dump timestamps Jul 15 19:57:39 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07python-odeviced * re4e0dd3ae700 10/odeviced/modules/idlenotifier.py: python-ophoned: IdleNotifier: read timeout configuration from file Jul 15 19:58:18 lpotter: i can check the real status on a terminal Jul 15 19:59:16 not sure, havent done any testing like that Jul 15 19:59:57 lpotter: i am unsatisfied with one day, the most of it in suspend mode Jul 15 20:02:41 carry a backup battery? Jul 15 20:03:04 no Jul 15 20:03:22 lucky for me i have like three thones that share the same battery Jul 15 20:04:21 hey.. how the @#$#@ do I hide the on screen keyboard? Jul 15 20:04:31 Damnit. My phone has been trapped in illinois for 13 hours now. Jul 15 20:05:26 heh Jul 15 20:05:34 how can you definitively disable the clicking sound when tapping on the screen ? Jul 15 20:05:41 Earplugs. Jul 15 20:06:12 Are the SMS indexed from 1 asc? Jul 15 20:06:27 AciD, rename the click soundfile :P Jul 15 20:07:24 spydon > where to ? :o Jul 15 20:07:34 AciD: Suspend, resume. That kills it for me. Jul 15 20:07:56 is there a problem with power management or does the freerunner runs mor than one day fot others? Jul 15 20:08:21 malik1972, problem with power management Jul 15 20:08:47 spydon: not solved, solvable? Jul 15 20:09:18 I just phoned with FR \o/ Jul 15 20:09:25 :> Jul 15 20:09:30 are things like gps and wifi being disabled when not in use? Jul 15 20:09:38 AciD: how was the sound quality for the other person? Jul 15 20:09:44 kd8ikt: yeah Jul 15 20:09:44 bad Jul 15 20:09:47 with other words my freerunner hats problems with powermangement and with gps fixing Jul 15 20:09:49 very bad Jul 15 20:09:50 heh Jul 15 20:09:57 AciD: I think maybe alsamixer helps Jul 15 20:09:57 with a lot of noise around Jul 15 20:09:58 I hope Jul 15 20:09:58 and it still gobbles up power? Jul 15 20:10:00 you too ? Jul 15 20:10:06 I don't have my FR yet Jul 15 20:10:16 me either Jul 15 20:10:23 thur/fri Jul 15 20:10:31 yeah Jul 15 20:10:43 more problems? up to date i didnt tried wifi and bluetooth Jul 15 20:10:54 malik1972: At present no freerunners can do more than a day without recharging; however that may be fixable by more sophisticated power management software that does not yet exist. Jul 15 20:11:19 mwester: good to know Jul 15 20:11:39 what can be more sophisticated then turning off chips when not in use? Jul 15 20:11:51 slowing the clocks Jul 15 20:12:02 mwester: you modified the kernel Jul 15 20:12:13 slightly Jul 15 20:12:22 does the cpu even support freq scaling Jul 15 20:12:32 i thought that my battery was bricked Jul 15 20:12:44 kd8ikt: Yes, if cesarb will ever finish implementing it Jul 15 20:12:48 Yes the cpu supports freq scaling; the software is incomplete Jul 15 20:13:02 roger that Jul 15 20:13:13 heh Jul 15 20:13:26 so much cesarb bashing :P Jul 15 20:13:35 Give the poor guy a break :) Jul 15 20:13:36 darn it, no fun pestering cesarb for all his hard work if he's not around Jul 15 20:13:46 is there a node under proc that represents the battery? Jul 15 20:13:59 hah Jul 15 20:14:05 is cesarb on of the paid openmoko guys? Jul 15 20:14:10 kd8ikt: nope Jul 15 20:14:15 Just a hard working community sap Jul 15 20:14:16 stephelton: more likely /sys/class Jul 15 20:14:17 There are many interactions, for example not all freqs are possible if one wishes to keep communicating with the GSM. So to run a very slow speeds requires that the GSM be flow controlled and the serial driver be suspended. So we first need to fix suspend/resume, then we can do the rest of the freq scaling Jul 15 20:14:19 I mean dev Jul 15 20:14:28 :P Jul 15 20:14:29 cjb you know what that is? Jul 15 20:14:40 no, because I don't have a FR yet. Jul 15 20:14:52 stephelton: search for check fast charge on the wiki Jul 15 20:14:59 wurp2|work: thx Jul 15 20:15:00 stephelton: I have a script out there that checks it Jul 15 20:15:02 cjb: i found some stuff Jul 15 20:15:12 stephelton: welcome Jul 15 20:16:31 mwester: i thought fso should solve this "lowlevel" issues Jul 15 20:16:45 no, this is far lower than fso Jul 15 20:17:06 on the kernel side Jul 15 20:17:38 fso has no special kernel; all images can use the same kernel Jul 15 20:17:49 That's the good news. Jul 15 20:18:05 malik1972: fso doesn't use pulseaudio, that's why suspend/resume is better for it Jul 15 20:18:06 wurp2|work: "forcing fast charge mode"? Jul 15 20:18:20 stephelton: That will tell you the file to look at Jul 15 20:18:23 it's not my script Jul 15 20:18:24 sec Jul 15 20:18:25 The bad news is that to enter these special power-saving modes will require that the user-space applications (FSO) know what the kernel can do, and tell the kernel what they want to happen -- this is not done yet either. Jul 15 20:18:32 Battery life at teh moment is very much a work in progress. Currently suspend is broken, so you get 6-12 hours depending on what's on. The hardware appears capable of doing a week standby, with 20 hours mp3, and 5 hours+ talk time. Jul 15 20:18:34 quick question... just got my FR today - is it advisable to do an opkg update &7 opkg upgrade or will it break stuff? 0.o Jul 15 20:18:41 && Jul 15 20:19:04 stephelton: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CheckFastCharge-script Jul 15 20:20:14 swc|666: do it Jul 15 20:20:23 Hey, did I understand right that the way to set fast charge on the 01 doesn't work on the FR? Jul 15 20:20:40 'cause I see lots more downloads of my fast charge script, and I suspect it isn't doing those people any good Jul 15 20:21:06 Tanuva, thnx ;) Jul 15 20:21:35 wurp2|work: fso has better battery life Jul 15 20:21:45 openmoko: 03zecke * r2cf9d267bc41 10/src/server/phone/telephony/callpolicymanager/cell/ (cellmodemmanager.cpp cellmodemmanager.h): [gsm] Do not immediately fire the next CFUN but give the modem some time... Jul 15 20:21:45 openmoko: 03zecke * r153d3809db78 10/src/server/phone/phonestatusdbusexporter.cpp: [phone] At least emit something on startup Jul 15 20:21:46 openmoko: 03zecke * r2660ab006dd5 10/src/libraries/qtopiaphonemodem/qmodemsmsreader.cpp: [gsm] SMS initialisation fails with my TI calypso Jul 15 20:22:30 is there a GUI version of alsa mixer (or some other mixer) for OM2007.2? Jul 15 20:22:35 holy crap.. how the @#$@# do I get the keyboard to go away! die! Jul 15 20:22:44 malik1972: Hmm, didn't know that. I never use FSO w/o suspend/resume Jul 15 20:22:54 malik1972: So it has *much* better battery life for me Jul 15 20:22:54 swc|666: you can always re-image, but I thought some people had been mentioning problems after an upgrade of the stock image Jul 15 20:23:06 :/ Jul 15 20:23:37 but you'll want to upgrade sooner or later, so you might as well take the plunge and see what happens ;) Jul 15 20:23:48 How do I get my system to see my CDC ACM device: http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_CDC_ACM Jul 15 20:23:50 yep ...trial/error :D Jul 15 20:23:50 wurp2|work: see http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-July/003761.html Jul 15 20:26:24 mmontour: Great, thanks! I assume the values are 100, 500, and 1000? Jul 15 20:27:07 Ainulindale: Jul 15 20:27:10 ~SHR Jul 15 20:27:11 i guess shr is Stable Hybrid Release, a combination of the FSO, some of the 2007.2 GTK software, and the ASU that provides all of the functionality of the 2007.2 software, but with the stability of the FSO. See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Stable_Hybrid_Release Jul 15 20:27:56 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r7df69fb05363 10/packages/qtopia-phone/ (3 files in 3 dirs): [qtopia] Pipe the output of qpe through the "logger" utility Jul 15 20:27:57 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r0ac52fc2a095 10/packages/qtopia-phone/ (3 files in 3 dirs): [qtopia] The app to inform illume about incoming calls was never implemented, remove Jul 15 20:27:58 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r773100b58d87 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-qtopia-x11.bb: [qtopia] Remove the helpbrowser from the image. Qtopia should disable the Help entry Jul 15 20:27:58 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r30138c231a78 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade Qtopia to a version with various fixes Jul 15 20:28:45 wurp2|work: I don't know, but that sounds right. Jul 15 20:29:52 how do you register an icon in the top bar (like bluetooth and battery) Jul 15 20:29:56 is it just doing a GTK applet? Jul 15 20:31:02 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rcc3edb75c5c4 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-asu-feed.bb: [openmoko-asu-feed] Fix a stupid mistake Jul 15 20:31:08 What does "DESTINATION SCAN" (as opposed to "DEPARTURE SCAN") mean? Jul 15 20:31:34 sontek: use MokoPanelApplet from moko-panel-applet.h (take a look at openmoko-panel-* for examples) Jul 15 20:31:57 What's CIA-46 watching? git? Jul 15 20:32:08 Elleo: thanks Jul 15 20:32:22 no problem Jul 15 20:32:31 Elleo: is it better to switch to qtopia/fso before I start working on apps? Jul 15 20:33:08 sontek: pass, I'm not terribly clear on the current progression myself Jul 15 20:33:17 I'd have thought once SHR emerges it won't make much odds Jul 15 20:33:22 sontek: I don't think so Jul 15 20:33:55 except for the fact that something like the current panel might be replaced by a component from one of the other platforms Jul 15 20:34:04 IMO 2007.2 is the platform to target if you want your apps used soon, and ASU should be able to run 2007.2 (GTK) apps when it is ready to run Jul 15 20:34:27 Elleo: Yeah, good point... the panel is pretty specific. The panel will be the same between 2007.2 and SHR Jul 15 20:34:35 ah, cool Jul 15 20:35:00 I see that pulseaudio still gobbles cpu. Jul 15 20:35:01 lame. Jul 15 20:36:08 anyone working actively on SHR? Jul 15 20:36:23 edistar: Most of the people talking on openmoko-cdevel Jul 15 20:36:34 wurp2|work: ok Jul 15 20:37:02 wurp2|work: #openmoko-devel? Jul 15 20:37:20 that even exists Jul 15 20:37:24 edistar: #openmoko-cdevel Jul 15 20:37:29 smurfy-phil: thanks Jul 15 20:45:13 doc|work: LOUISVILLE,KY US 15/07/2008 16:05 DEPARTURE SCAN Jul 15 20:45:16 ;) Jul 15 20:46:00 FR kicks a$$ btw Jul 15 20:49:33 its funny the mailing lists have more traffic than the irc channel Ø= Jul 15 20:49:40 :) Jul 15 20:49:56 Cannot find package emacs. Jul 15 20:49:57 :( Jul 15 20:50:07 My phone needs emacs! Jul 15 20:50:25 gmaxwell: what for? It's got an OS already... Jul 15 20:50:25 houw would you operate the shfit, ctrl, and meta? Jul 15 20:50:27 why so you can have a bunch of save files left over? :p Jul 15 20:50:42 gmaxwell: if it still isn't around by thursday, I'll build it for you :) Jul 15 20:50:44 * cjb needs emacs more. Jul 15 20:50:50 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r45c722de6701 10/packages/qtopia-phone/ (3 files in 3 dirs): [qtopia] Pipe the output of qpe through the "logger" utility Jul 15 20:50:50 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r3b5f54e4c17b 10/packages/qtopia-phone/ (3 files in 3 dirs): [qtopia] The app to inform illume about incoming calls was never implemented, remove Jul 15 20:50:51 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r6e896b8cc93e 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-qtopia-x11.bb: [qtopia] Remove the helpbrowser from the image. Qtopia should disable the Help entry Jul 15 20:50:51 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rab6665bf6322 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade Qtopia to a version with various fixes Jul 15 20:50:54 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r4adf85030a6e 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Attempt at a stable kernel update. Jul 15 20:51:35 Well I can build it, .. I suppose. I had the build enviroment setup before for my old one. Jul 15 20:52:10 if gnu emacs or xemacs are too bulky, look at qemacs. It's much lighter Jul 15 20:52:40 budfive: he has an 8G microSD :) Jul 15 20:52:44 just about the right size for ejacs Jul 15 20:52:46 emacs Jul 15 20:53:07 ok. i'd love to see it then. Jul 15 20:53:11 hehe. Oh come on.. I learned emacs on a system with far less memory/storage/cpu power than an unadorned GTA01. ;) Jul 15 20:53:23 but really, how would one operate ctrl, shift and meta? Jul 15 20:53:36 budfive, sticky buttons on the on screen keyboard.. Jul 15 20:53:50 or more realistically.. a bluetooth keyboard once those are working again. Jul 15 20:53:56 oh. i see. Jul 15 20:54:01 * cjb suggests foot pedals :) Jul 15 20:54:09 ok. i now want xemacs for the FR. :) Jul 15 20:54:12 hm, I should pick out a bluetooth keyboard. Jul 15 20:55:32 I haven't gone bluetooth keyboard shopping yet.. I used to have this nice little clicky folding irda keyboard for my zaurus. Jul 15 20:58:36 I had a similar, serial keyboard for my old Jornada. Jul 15 20:59:02 Loved it. I think Stowaway made it... Jul 15 21:00:01 friend of mine has one of these: Jul 15 21:00:01 http://www.virtual-laser-keyboard.com/ Jul 15 21:00:10 I should get him to loan it to me and try it out.. Jul 15 21:00:12 gmaxwell: does it actually work? Jul 15 21:00:24 the apple bt keyboard is awesome Jul 15 21:00:47 the laser keyboard? yea.. it works, or so he says.. but I think his view was that you can't use it without looking (no tactile feedback) so you might as well use an onscreen keyboard. Jul 15 21:00:57 The Koolu website shows a freerunner with that keyboard and a mini-video projector built in. Jul 15 21:01:01 (not tested on openmoko yet, of course) Jul 15 21:01:03 lpotter: it seems big Jul 15 21:01:41 It's vaporware, of course, but maybe not for long... Jul 15 21:02:01 lpotter: do you know if it works with the FR? Jul 15 21:02:31 cjb: I thought bluetooth keyboards weren't working at the moment. Jul 15 21:02:38 some xinput issue or something Jul 15 21:02:43 i can try it. i use it as my main hacking keyboard Jul 15 21:04:01 I need to hack a BT keyboard converter dongle into an IBM model-m keyboard. :) .. and carry that around with my FR. Jul 15 21:04:23 one of the late model ones with the nub mouse would be most fantastic. Jul 15 21:05:11 gmaxwell: That would be awesome. You could do all kinds of cool shit with that... Jul 15 21:05:14 gmaxwell: and one of these for making calls - http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/cellphone/8928/ Jul 15 21:05:57 mmontour, there is enough space on the back of a model M to clue on a set of acoustic coupler muffs to hold that thing.. ;) Jul 15 21:06:11 gmaxwell: Call the bluetooth adapter a "Dingle" Jul 15 21:12:59 cjb: its got full sized keys Jul 15 21:13:28 mmontour: i actually have that handset :) Jul 15 21:14:53 haha.. that's an awesome handset Jul 15 21:15:08 has anyone here in the U.S. having AT&T been able to register the network? Jul 15 21:15:26 i get register denied every time Jul 15 21:19:59 registration denied* Jul 15 21:24:14 swc|666: several people have mentioned that reseating the sim card usually fixes that problem. Jul 15 21:24:26 hmm Jul 15 21:24:39 I can't say for sure, because UPS still has my phone in Illinois. Jul 15 21:24:42 i've done that and i have bars on the signal.. Jul 15 21:24:50 rivalarrival: opening and closing the SIM socket several times, while swearing works for me. Jul 15 21:25:34 lol Jul 15 21:26:28 SpeedEvil: that method has served me well over the years... I usually include death threats, though... Jul 15 21:29:30 I aughta try the ASU huh Jul 15 21:31:32 check the mailing list, a new post a min ago from joerg saying a software fix is in the works that may solve the gps problem Jul 15 21:31:54 Work around badly AIUI. Jul 15 21:32:01 * SpeedEvil goes to check ML Jul 15 21:32:17 guys, I am on qemu. the "networking via pppd" looks ok, but ping says "host unreachable". any ideas? Jul 15 21:32:37 local/remote IP was printed ok both sides. Jul 15 21:33:47 ok...so my FR is at home waiting for me. I guess the first thing I need to do is get the gps testing script and give it a whirl after it charges up? Jul 15 21:34:08 any other thoughts on initial tests before I start "playing" with it? Jul 15 21:35:38 i have a problem Jul 15 21:35:56 seems if phone=kit starts before gsmd, i can't make/receive calls Jul 15 21:36:24 er Jul 15 21:36:27 a busybox upgrade happened and now 'ps' wont take any arguments Jul 15 21:36:44 How stable/unstable is ASU compared to the qtopia images? Jul 15 21:36:45 Xaos: No, first thing is to give me directions to your house. ;) Jul 15 21:36:50 if phone-kit starts before the cell network has been registered Jul 15 21:37:45 retracile: LOL...uh. no Jul 15 21:37:49 ;-) Jul 15 21:37:54 Tracking Number:1Z5VX038DL54105032 [wwwapps.ups.com] Jul 15 21:37:54 Exception Reason: POWER OF ATTORNEY DOCUMENTATION IS MISSING AND IS REQUIRED FOR CLEARANCE Jul 15 21:38:05 grrrrrrrrrr Jul 15 21:38:24 oops. didnt mean to put in tracking number :P Jul 15 21:38:34 heh. powned. Jul 15 21:38:39 Delivery Date / Time: 15-July-2008 / 1:47 PM Jul 15 21:38:39 * macdonalder hijacks Jul 15 21:38:57 * balrog-k1n redirects the delivery Jul 15 21:39:04 :DDDD Jul 15 21:39:09 :P Jul 15 21:39:21 redirect tracking number 1Z5VX038DL54105032 to retracile's house Jul 15 21:39:28 * donomo waits on letoto's porch Jul 15 21:39:45 Clearance, huh? So what country is that which seems to think cell phones are dangerous weapons? China? Jul 15 21:39:50 yay! i got my freerunner Jul 15 21:39:53 and dboard Jul 15 21:40:04 mwester, it's customs :P Jul 15 21:40:09 unboxed it and took tons of pics Jul 15 21:40:25 zbowling: you got a debug board? wow. what will you do with it? Jul 15 21:40:34 and the US is a country which things cell phones can be dangerous weapons, and restricts their sale to certain countries (eg, north korea) Jul 15 21:40:52 donomo: kernel hacking... use that jtag to walk though the kernel Jul 15 21:40:59 i put up a couple unboxing photos at http://flickr.com/photos/donpdonp/ Jul 15 21:41:10 Well, the power of free speech is surely disconcerting to some governments Jul 15 21:41:14 zbowling: interesting Jul 15 21:41:28 donomo: hate you :( Jul 15 21:41:34 only we're the ones restricting their export to north korea :P Jul 15 21:42:01 Well, we wouldn't want them to speak to one another, now would we? Jul 15 21:42:05 * zbowling works for texas instruments and does this kind of thing a lot :-P want to hack the GSM modem driver for our chipset thats in there to beef it up Jul 15 21:42:21 beef! Jul 15 21:42:37 zbowling: can you put the GSM source up on the wiki? :) Jul 15 21:42:40 * mwester would rather someone make it work before they "beef" it up Jul 15 21:42:50 hehe.. i wish i had it Jul 15 21:42:55 is the tip of the stylus neon green? Jul 15 21:42:57 i work in the education technology division Jul 15 21:43:10 doc|work: yep Jul 15 21:43:16 hmmm Jul 15 21:43:17 fugly! Jul 15 21:43:18 zbowling: though I note the specs for the chip itself have leaked. Jul 15 21:43:20 :) Jul 15 21:43:22 doc|work, yes, it's a bug, they're working on it Jul 15 21:43:26 ieatlint: haha Jul 15 21:43:27 it should be purple Jul 15 21:43:31 zbowling: but not the software. Jul 15 21:43:40 But the specs for the chip are not that useful, frankly Jul 15 21:43:44 doc|work: the pen contraption is ridiculous Jul 15 21:43:45 ieatlint: there may be a software fix :) Jul 15 21:44:20 yeah, the stylus us meh... the laser in it causes a rattling noise when you use it (quite annoying, but the nature of the technology) Jul 15 21:44:26 SpeedEvil: well not really leaked... the customers can do what they want with them, but we only distribute them to the customers... the ones that are posted on the openness page are old but still mostly correct (but they are from the beta days and have our propitary notices on them) Jul 15 21:44:29 donomo: ridiculous how? Jul 15 21:44:30 Yeah, just redefine the constant "green" to be "white" and all will be well. Jul 15 21:44:31 ieatlint: it's the battery Jul 15 21:44:31 ieatlint: the US is a country which thought T-shirts could be dangerous weapons. http://www.cypherspace.org/adam/shirt/ Jul 15 21:44:50 doc|work: its huge. comes with a LASER POINTER. i'll never use it. Jul 15 21:44:51 SpeedEvil, you sure? my understanding of lasers is that a piece needs to be loose Jul 15 21:44:56 zbowling: There are no publically available docs I mean. Jul 15 21:44:57 I want a t-shirt that reads "I am not a terrorist" in arabic Jul 15 21:45:04 ieatlint: err - no. It's the batteries. Jul 15 21:45:10 SpeedEvil: no, it's the buttons Jul 15 21:45:14 SpeedEvil, just verified, took the batteries out, still rattles Jul 15 21:45:16 ieatlint: or it may be the pen slapping around inside. Jul 15 21:45:18 SpeedEvil: hold the buttons - no noise Jul 15 21:45:30 Fill it full of epoxy, no rattles. Jul 15 21:45:38 am holding just the upper part, no pen in this section Jul 15 21:45:45 donomo: hmmm Jul 15 21:45:59 but the battery housing is crappy... Jul 15 21:46:17 half the time the led/laser won't turn on unless i like hit the pen against something Jul 15 21:46:31 zbowling: the ones I refer to have 'THIS IS UNDER NDA' all over them, and the product page on the TI website says 'no docs unless you really convince us you're buying loads of them'. Jul 15 21:46:49 * kduboi1 just unboxed his fr :D Jul 15 21:46:58 :) Jul 15 21:47:05 it was because it became a "personal package" Jul 15 21:47:13 SpeedEvil: we do linux support indirectly.. rather then push our specs out public the minute the tech is out, we wait till a custom wants to use it with Linux (or something open), then we work with them, patch our own version of the stuff and distribute it to them.. when they release its up to them to release the changes, and eventually some some diffs in the community and pushes them back to the vanilla kernel on linus's tree... what Jul 15 21:47:18 and no, all you guys can peek, but apparently not change anything :) Jul 15 21:47:39 SpeedEvil: http://zbowling.com/blog/2008/07/14/farewell-texas-instruments/ Jul 15 21:48:31 zbowling: why not just give out the specs? Jul 15 21:48:33 kdubois: can you make/receive calls with yours? Jul 15 21:48:39 zbowling: doesn't seem to be loading. Jul 15 21:48:46 cjb: worked for me Jul 15 21:48:48 zbowling: it's not a linux thing, I'm talking about the firmware inside the GSM modem, and the specs for its programming - which is quite irrelevant to someone wanting to run it with linux. Unless you are trying to run linux on the phone module itself. Jul 15 21:49:05 doc|work: ahh the firmware is a different matter.. we don't own all of it... Jul 15 21:49:15 AntonTakk: im still trying to figure out how to turn it on. where's the getting started guide? Jul 15 21:49:46 kdubois: online - power button is the round thing next to the usb port Jul 15 21:50:08 kdubois: have to hold it in for a few seconds Jul 15 21:50:12 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner Jul 15 21:50:20 zbowling: there have been a number of annoying issues with the firmware in the modem, so being able to hack it would be nice - but understandably very unlikely to happen. Jul 15 21:50:38 thanks. the bigger problem is getting the battery in :P Jul 15 21:50:41 SpeedEvil: and the compiler for the firmware seems to be windows only :( Jul 15 21:50:57 balrog-k1n: how did you come to that conclusion? Jul 15 21:51:07 That's trivial compared to the NDA stuff. Jul 15 21:51:15 any of you know if there is a way to check if the sim card is in properly and able to be read? Jul 15 21:51:16 SpeedEvil: it's an .exe? :p Jul 15 21:51:26 balrog-k1n: where did you find the compiler? Jul 15 21:51:37 Just to be able to read the docs on the proprietary "features" (read: bugs) would be so helpful. Jul 15 21:51:57 SpeedEvil: well, it's not publicly available Jul 15 21:52:22 balrog-k1n: you have something that takes source code and puts out an object? Or is it just a reflasher? Jul 15 21:52:28 why is this so hard to open?! Jul 15 21:52:32 Of course you can't share it. Jul 15 21:52:34 kdubois: it's not. Jul 15 21:52:37 although it might, i dunno, in the end it's just ARM Jul 15 21:52:50 kdubois: put your hand into a claw-shape. Jul 15 21:52:59 SpeedEvil: i haven't tried to run it Jul 15 21:53:15 the flasher does run on linux and i've tried running it and it worked Jul 15 21:53:17 doc|work: it would be too easy for people to copy our design because the spec gives all the information how its design away for the most part.. competators could clone it before we got our first, but we don't mind after the customer buys a few million and ships it to them give the docs we gave them out... the reason being is that we work on chipsets today that probably wont be put in devices for 3 to 4 years constantly.. thats plently Jul 15 21:53:20 yay, there it goes. haha Jul 15 21:53:25 place the phone back on the heel of your palm, place your fingernail into the slot on the end, then twist the phone down to pull out of the slot Jul 15 21:54:24 zbowling: yeah, but for someone like openmoko, that's not exactly ideal :/ And aren't competitors likely to reasonably quickly reverse engineer them anyway? Jul 15 21:54:34 kdubois, make youtube video :P Jul 15 21:54:40 doc|home: the calypso chipset is almost end-of-life. Jul 15 21:54:43 kdubois, youtube needs more openmoko videos :P Jul 15 21:54:50 I can accept a closed GSM firmware, but it's a real PITA that I can't field-update my unit to a new version of the firmware after it has been compiled on an official development system. Jul 15 21:55:03 Dave: you have 5 Freerunners. Jul 15 21:55:13 Dave: can you juggle them, and youtube it? Jul 15 21:55:20 SpeedEvil: yeah, but it's not just about this one chipset, it's about all of them :/ Jul 15 21:55:26 SpeedEvil: lol Jul 15 21:55:26 I'd be quite happy if I could download and then install a signed+encrypted blob Jul 15 21:55:40 mmontour: I wonder if there is no security. Jul 15 21:55:43 doc|work: but by the time they reverse engineer them, its already 3 to 4 years old, tack on another year to design and get it out and they would of created a 5 year old product... there are companies that do that but they sell ultra cheap chips... Jul 15 21:55:56 mmontour: hence the reluctance to distribute a flasher. Jul 15 21:56:13 zbowling: it takes that long? Jul 15 21:56:14 doc|work: they don't get the spec until our customer releases their first release of it and includes the spec for the open community... Jul 15 21:56:42 el1: no I diddn't. Jul 15 21:56:44 oops Jul 15 21:56:49 oh yah :-) intel, amd, and nvidia are the only ones turning their design around and shipping them in under 6 months Jul 15 21:56:58 intel on the pentium side Jul 15 21:57:10 zbowling: sorry, I meant reverse engineering takes that long? :) Jul 15 21:57:21 SpeedEvil: that's possible. Still sucks that I'd have to ship my unit to the USA to get the bugs fixed Jul 15 21:57:45 ooh... no... its getting a custom asic up, developing the firmware, etc.. it doesn't take that long to reverse engineer at all Jul 15 21:57:48 i get 'ioctl[PRISM2_IOCTL_HOSTAPD]' when trying to run wpa_supplicant -ieth0 Jul 15 21:57:58 We make good bugs here, mmontour. Jul 15 21:57:59 zbowling: ah, yeah, that's what I was thinking Jul 15 21:58:03 mwester: hah Jul 15 21:58:23 doc|work: just to copy it and try to steal our business... Jul 15 21:58:32 yep Jul 15 21:58:43 And then there is the issue that the best way to do something may well have changed in 5 years. Jul 15 21:58:53 zbowling: like the use of 2.5g :) Jul 15 21:59:02 So you end up with a poorer product than you might have otherwise got. Jul 15 21:59:02 er, sorry, misdirected Jul 15 21:59:13 SpeedEvil: like the use of 2.5g :) Jul 15 21:59:17 hehe.. and we make a lot of chips... Jul 15 21:59:20 or glamo :( Jul 15 21:59:22 a lot of different versions too Jul 15 21:59:44 * SpeedEvil wants some impactron CCD samples. Jul 15 21:59:58 Those are cool. Jul 15 22:00:06 And occasionally cooled. Jul 15 22:00:49 (CCD imager, with integrated solid-state image intensifier) Jul 15 22:01:00 see, we look at the iphone, reasonably decent hardware, faster proc, faster gsm, and we're not likely to get to that any time soon in any properly open form Jul 15 22:02:02 wow, the resolution is spectacular :P Jul 15 22:02:11 kdubois: that it is. Jul 15 22:02:15 kdubois: :( Jul 15 22:02:19 * doc|work shakes fist at ups Jul 15 22:02:45 doc|work: where is your package now? Jul 15 22:02:56 doc|work: I'm with you, I finally get hands-on come friday Jul 15 22:03:09 is there any way to set the fr's clock directly? I have adjusted the timezone but dont get the right time yet.. Jul 15 22:03:10 yeah.. openmoko has to wait till someone else uses it free first to get them to create the free driver... now if FIC bought our high stuff, then we provide them the docs and they could turn them over to the community but FIC would have to develop with us on it.. we do that with Nokia on the OMAP used in the Nokia 770/N800/N810.... Jul 15 22:04:36 i just went and paid $25 for a new sim that also doesn't work \= i even took the 'sim cards that do NOT work" list with me... Jul 15 22:04:43 :/ Jul 15 22:05:00 and i can't talk to anyone because their reps are all tied up with apple douchebags Jul 15 22:05:00 mmontour: I think it's in richmond, but the last van today probably left already Jul 15 22:05:09 plus TI is not on the Richardson Stallman Free Software bandwagon but the Linus Open Source Bandwagon Jul 15 22:05:51 zbowling: the way I read it was that the problem wasn't the use, it was that they weren't high enough numbers to even have someone talk to them Jul 15 22:05:52 I don't think any of us here really care abou tthat. Jul 15 22:06:08 zbowling: an initial run might be 1K I suspect. Jul 15 22:06:22 zbowling: so _tiny_ volumes for a cellphone. Jul 15 22:06:33 yeah Jul 15 22:06:41 it's a shame they couldn't piggy back on someone else's run Jul 15 22:06:43 we do a lot of crafty agreements on each sale Jul 15 22:06:50 some things are higher IP then others Jul 15 22:07:00 i did talks around TI about it all the time Jul 15 22:07:59 There is a large chunk of IP in the GSM stack unfortunately. Jul 15 22:08:44 Not to mention the approvals issue. Jul 15 22:08:47 hey, look at that, it gets calls Jul 15 22:09:21 crap, if I have a 3g sim, it wont work will it? Jul 15 22:09:45 mine says 3g on it and it works Jul 15 22:09:45 might do. Jul 15 22:09:55 stephelton, where is that list at? the sim cards that do not work Jul 15 22:10:08 spydon: depends, some at&t (scum) cards are having problems Jul 15 22:10:13 i was planning on picking up a tmobile sim for $20 this afternoon Jul 15 22:10:18 Tanuva: date -s MMDDHHmm Jul 15 22:10:28 trix: wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT Jul 15 22:10:41 trix: s/ATT/Tmobile Jul 15 22:10:51 #!/bin/ash Jul 15 22:10:51 date `ssh 192.168.0.200 date "+%m%d%H%M%Y.%S"` Jul 15 22:11:00 If you're feeling silly. Jul 15 22:11:05 doc|home, well luckily we dont have at&t in Sweden :P Jul 15 22:11:15 Tanuva: also had to reboot the fr to make tz setting take effect Jul 15 22:11:28 See if there is a voltage rating on the SIM. Some reports (not confirmed yet AFAIK) suggest that there's a problem with 1.8V while 2.9V ones are OK. Jul 15 22:12:02 stephelton, thanks. Jul 15 22:12:07 spydon: heh, yeah, you just have the government make it law and then there's wiretapping :( Jul 15 22:13:29 doc|home, I've been on 5 demonstrations against that f*ing law, apperantly it is going to be used in a bigger surveilance network that NSA has. Sweden never stands up against USA :( Jul 15 22:13:44 spydon: ugh Jul 15 22:14:25 doc|work, Swedens government should be more like thepiratebay :P Jul 15 22:14:40 spydon: :/ Jul 15 22:15:56 is there documentation somewhere on how to flash the phone? Jul 15 22:16:02 I want to tryout the qtopia stack Jul 15 22:16:05 yay i got my new one ! Jul 15 22:16:10 sontek: of course, on the wiki Jul 15 22:16:10 and can I convert back if I don't like it? Jul 15 22:16:18 awesomo4k, make youtube video ;) Jul 15 22:16:25 spydon: I think the Pirate Bay is actually a political party in Sweden Jul 15 22:16:45 hey is gtav2 arm5 ? Jul 15 22:16:49 sitwon, nope we have the pirate party Jul 15 22:16:51 sitwon, no, they're separate Jul 15 22:16:56 cjb: do you know what page has the details? Jul 15 22:17:01 awesomo4k, no, 4 Jul 15 22:17:05 sitwon, the pirate party is a lot more serius :P Jul 15 22:17:08 ahhh ... so still no android then Jul 15 22:17:08 * sitwon was dissapointingly misinformed Jul 15 22:17:28 google has not released the source for their java-like vm have they ? Jul 15 22:17:35 sontek: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner Jul 15 22:17:45 awesomo4k, afaik no, and yeah, no android 'till it can be ported Jul 15 22:17:51 spydon: that's cool too, as long as they drink lots of rum Jul 15 22:18:02 damn them and their non-open-source ways ! Jul 15 22:18:09 * sitwon suggests Barbancourt Rhum Jul 15 22:18:30 sitwon, ^^ hehe we had a banana republic party a week ago :P Jul 15 22:19:03 So what's the latest on the GPS/SD problem? Jul 15 22:19:40 johngay: software fix hopefully forthcoming. Jul 15 22:19:48 Avast ye knaves, vote Aye on this here Bill or I'll cut ye liver out with me cutlass! Arrrr Jul 15 22:19:55 there's a patch in andy's git for turning off the SD clock between transfers. Jul 15 22:19:58 software workaround rather, but hopefully effective Jul 15 22:20:01 it could use help with people testing it. Jul 15 22:20:05 sorry, yes, workaround. Jul 15 22:20:11 hardware fix in testing Jul 15 22:20:25 how to tell if i have the problem? Jul 15 22:20:32 no info on practicalities if you want the hw fix Jul 15 22:20:57 awesomo4k: if you get better GPS reception with the SD card removed than with it inserted you have the problem Jul 15 22:21:08 so how do I type / on the keyboard? Jul 15 22:21:14 ahh.. k. thx Jul 15 22:22:00 So it might be a good thing I didn't have the money to jump on the first batch? Jul 15 22:22:42 sontek: you need to modfiy the /etc/multitap-pad/im-multipress.conf to include that character for multiple presses of the 1 key Jul 15 22:22:53 or switch to the matchbox keyboard Jul 15 22:23:10 sitwon: ok, so is there a way to do that via my computer then? Jul 15 22:23:20 sitwon: i'm just on the openmoko itself right now Jul 15 22:23:44 how do you switch to the horizontal display Jul 15 22:24:08 awesomo4k: press the AUX button and select “Swap Orientation” Jul 15 22:24:20 awesomo4k: but then the touch pad does not work reliable, at least here Jul 15 22:25:52 sontek: yea, follow the instuction on the Wiki for USB networking (in the Getting Started page) and then ssh into your FR and use vi to edit the file Jul 15 22:26:26 is there an encrypted voice project in the works? Jul 15 22:26:41 Not stock. Jul 15 22:26:42 awesomo4k: encrypted how? Jul 15 22:27:03 You can't analog encrypt voice - due to the GSM codec. Jul 15 22:27:15 gnha... Jul 15 22:27:20 And GPRS is too slow for most uses. Jul 15 22:27:29 that sounds like a challenge :) Jul 15 22:27:38 jfyi: password reset on the docs.openmoko.org trac is somehow broken. i noted it on the startpage there. Jul 15 22:27:38 Wifi or bluetooth would work. As would CSD. Jul 15 22:27:41 isnt gsm encrypted betwen the phone and towers? crappy encryption thou Jul 15 22:27:47 zash, yes and yes Jul 15 22:27:52 zash: that's not the problem Jul 15 22:27:58 SpeedEvil: I've read that even encrypted Skype calls can be decrypted with statistical analisys (packet size, frequency, etc) Jul 15 22:28:17 Detected no. Jul 15 22:28:21 i am on it, but please do not 'just add a new account' for now. need a bit to sort it out. Jul 15 22:28:25 Detected yes. Decrypted no. Jul 15 22:28:37 but anyway, yes, CSD for encrypted neo-neo calls is the way to go, if you're stuck with doing it over GSM (and not with wifi etc) Jul 15 22:28:43 wouldn't you need the GSM firmware to do that? Jul 15 22:28:45 traffic analysis can reveal the endpoints which are then subject to "other means" of intercept. Jul 15 22:28:57 cjb: no - even with replaced firmware you can't. Jul 15 22:29:01 reference the german govt. use of trojans to get skype Jul 15 22:29:24 cjb: you've still got the two uncontrolled codecs on the phone company side - at least 2, maybe more. Jul 15 22:29:34 but i digress - SpeedEvil .. you got a link on why gsm codec prevents crypto for voice Jul 15 22:29:40 i get 'ioctl[PRISM2_IOCTL_HOSTAPD]' when trying to run wpa_supplicant... anyone seen this before? Jul 15 22:29:44 does the fr have a text editor by default? Jul 15 22:29:46 awesomo4k: to boil it down. Jul 15 22:30:03 some researchers were able to reconstruct encrypted skype conversations with surpising degree of accuracy using statistical analisys of sniffed traffic Jul 15 22:30:08 awesomo4k: the GSM codec throws away anything that's not voice like. This is why it sucks so much for music - for example. Jul 15 22:30:26 * sitwon is trying to find link Jul 15 22:30:34 sitwon, was that the variable bitrate encoding thing? Jul 15 22:30:49 sitwon: interesting! Jul 15 22:30:52 awesomo4k: It then processes the otuput data in such ways that small bit-errors make little audio difference. Jul 15 22:30:53 (yeah, turns out variable bitrate encoding isn't very hot for encrypted conversations) Jul 15 22:31:02 So a S/W work around or a H/W fix. What seems to be the root cause? Jul 15 22:31:25 awesomo4k: the problem is that if you try to feed in a non-voice-like signal, the GSM codec in the phone corrupts it massively. Jul 15 22:32:04 so good crypto on voice should sound just like white noise... and the gsm codec would totally mess that up ? Jul 15 22:32:16 are signature fails on update bad? Jul 15 22:32:19 or normal? Jul 15 22:32:23 Downloading http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/Packages.sig Jul 15 22:32:25 awesomo4k: even if you bypass that level, there is still the corruption due to bit-errors on the radio link to the base-station, then the corruption due to decoding those errors to an 'analog (really IDSN)' signal that's sent to the other tower, and then coded again Jul 15 22:32:29 Signature check failed Jul 15 22:32:40 and same is happening for the neo1973 repos Jul 15 22:32:40 awesomo4k: basically. There is an awful hack. Jul 15 22:33:17 awesomo4k: namely you drive a vocal-tract synthesiser with digital data. And on the other end put a 'speech' recogniser. Jul 15 22:33:22 SpeedEvil: What about analog encryption methods? Inverted voice? Jul 15 22:33:25 good crypto for voice would do voice recognition, change it to text, scramble, and read out loud using a voice synthesiser Jul 15 22:33:29 awesomo4k: 1300 bits/sec have been gotten that way. Jul 15 22:33:40 ick. Jul 15 22:33:45 you are right that is awful Jul 15 22:33:58 rivalarrival: that will be _horribly_ distorted - usually to unaudibility. Jul 15 22:34:05 http://rafb.net/p/5VJm0o98.html Jul 15 22:34:09 looks like it failed to update? Jul 15 22:34:11 so i guess regular data connection over ppp are woefully slow then eh Jul 15 22:34:14 on gsm Jul 15 22:34:21 awesomo4k: Not really. Jul 15 22:34:35 awesomo4k: GPRS is 5K/second or so. But with 2s delays up to Jul 15 22:34:38 SpeedEvil: Bullshit - they used to do it all the time on old military radios. Jul 15 22:34:49 rivalarrival: this is not an old military radio Jul 15 22:35:08 kdubois: it has vi :) Jul 15 22:35:10 rivalarrival: old military radios did not have to talk to completely standard towers, using codecs that they define. Jul 15 22:35:15 i mean using the audio channel on a gsm to dial into a modem Jul 15 22:35:25 SpeedEvil: Yeah, but the method is identical - a audio signal to a codec to a signal processor to another codec. Jul 15 22:35:28 awesomo4k, well you don't do that on gsm Jul 15 22:35:35 you make a cellular switched data call Jul 15 22:35:40 you "don't" but "can you"? Jul 15 22:35:42 and get 9k6/14k4 Jul 15 22:35:42 awesomo4k: and CSD is point-point data that you can talk phone-phone on at 9600bps. But... It's often very expensive. Jul 15 22:35:45 stephelton: i see. must get wifi working... Jul 15 22:35:55 kdubois: same here, i can't get wifi going Jul 15 22:35:59 kdubois: what problems are you having? Jul 15 22:36:07 I remember someone at my college made a 4kbit voice codec thingy as a project back in 2001. They did a kind for vocal analyze to make the voice into information about the type of sound instead of the actual sound. Heavily compressed it sounded very flat, but it was very clear as well. To run the voice trough such an analyze process, then randomize and "encrypt" the audio, and then transmit it trough gsm as the resulting "random" vocal Jul 15 22:36:07 sounds, could that be possible? Jul 15 22:36:14 awesomo4k: Can't be enabled on some accounts, and has a long training delay AIUI. Jul 15 22:36:17 "often" but not here in Finland for instance :] Jul 15 22:36:50 Morge, 4kbit > 1.3kbit Jul 15 22:36:51 rivalarrival: You are right. They run this encryption over analog lines from countries like malawi. Shure should be possible from a GSM network. Jul 15 22:36:57 Morge: Any data signal that passes through the GSM codec has to have very similar charachter to speech. Jul 15 22:37:03 well, for starters, i dont know how to input a '/' character... Jul 15 22:37:06 We had a voice encryption device that encoded the freq band info, then shaped white noise at the other end. Made people sound like donald duck (= Jul 15 22:37:13 sontek: these errors are normal and no problem Jul 15 22:37:13 mjr: true, but the compression could be even better they mentioned. Jul 15 22:37:21 morge: Sure, you're describing a vocoder based speech codec. There are many in use today. Jul 15 22:37:37 SpeedEvil: This would be voice sounds, just randomized. Jul 15 22:37:49 SpeedEvil: You can do it with any voice-grade channel. It's not all that secure - anyone with a soundcard and a signal processor can manipulate the intercepted data, but it is definitely doable. Jul 15 22:38:06 this is what I get when I try to get wlan going: http://rafb.net/p/XzQOUo21.html Jul 15 22:38:09 rivalarrival: the GSM channel is not a 'voice-grade' channel. Jul 15 22:38:12 donomo, what does that car battery on the bike do? :O Jul 15 22:38:23 rivalarrival: it's a voice-only channel, by design. Jul 15 22:38:25 SpeedEvil: Sure it is. Jul 15 22:38:41 unfortunately you can't efficiently pack the gsm voice channel with data.. too likely to get transcoded someplace in between. Jul 15 22:38:44 rivalarrival: the codecs are explicitly designed to throw non-speech components away. Jul 15 22:38:48 kdubois: haha yeah you should probably ssh via another machine... Jul 15 22:39:05 i have no networking though Jul 15 22:39:13 SpeedEvil: That is true, but most international calls goes trough gsm like codecs on satellite links. It still works. Jul 15 22:39:22 you could design a data modulation scheme that survives GSM .. but your bitrates would probably not be impressive.. and who knows what other processing in the middle might kill it. Jul 15 22:39:46 Morge: international calls are voice. Jul 15 22:39:54 spydon: the bike computer ha sgone through lots of iterations :) Jul 15 22:40:03 iwlist scan shows the wireless network Jul 15 22:40:06 I just need to connect to it Jul 15 22:40:08 SpeedEvil: They can't throw out all that much. Jul 15 22:40:09 SpeedEvil: How long have you been working on an earth station with relevant experience? Jul 15 22:40:16 so do cryptophones in use nowadays just avoid that problem and make encrypted calls data calls? Jul 15 22:40:28 can i share my laptop's internet connection over the usb? Jul 15 22:40:42 awesomo4k, yes, they do the sane thing and not bicker about it having to be possible over a voice call Jul 15 22:40:50 kdubois: you can ssh to the FR over usb -- see the "get started" page on the wiki Jul 15 22:40:56 wimps! Jul 15 22:41:07 SpeedEvil: The voice _does_ go trough codecs on _most_ international calls over satellite. I know this for certain, as it was not possible for us to debug the audio quality on those circuits. Jul 15 22:41:13 donomo, hehe :P Jul 15 22:41:21 (to be exact, at least cryptophone.de does that, don't know about everything out there) Jul 15 22:41:28 rivalarrival: try sending a random bit of music with several instruments playing at once over GSM. Jul 15 22:41:38 awesomo4k cryptophone uses csd data calls. Jul 15 22:41:42 awesomo4k, There is at least one crypto cell phone product that just uses data for the encyphered voice. Jul 15 22:41:48 SpeedEvil: You can't even do that with a telephone. Jul 15 22:41:48 With one or two instruments, it sort-of-works. Jul 15 22:42:15 depends on your definition of "works" Jul 15 22:42:17 rivalarrival: yes, you can. The result is _much_ worse with GSM, even though voice quality may be comparable on a quiet link. Jul 15 22:42:20 also cryptophone.de has their protocol documented, so if you want to do a free implementation to leverage their installed base... Jul 15 22:42:24 SpeedEvil: That is irrelevant for a voice sound like randomized audio stream, if one can get that to work. Jul 15 22:42:33 so is there a frequency sweep test file you could use to determine the parameters for your gsm link at init then get the best method going for data transfer over it ? Jul 15 22:42:41 awesomo4k i know their stuff only a bit, but one can look into their source (not free and open source, just for the paranoid, still a closed product) Jul 15 22:42:45 VoIP over cellular data has worked just fine in my experience.. so nothing wrong with that approach. I understand that the PTT functionality some cell providers are now offering is just VoIP over their IP data infrastructure. Jul 15 22:42:46 SpeedEvil: Do you know how voice-inversion works? Jul 15 22:42:46 Morge: As I said, that technique has been done - and gotten 1300 bits/second. Jul 15 22:42:54 rivalarrival: yes. I've even built one. Jul 15 22:43:02 awesomo4k i know their stuff only a bit, but one can look into their source (not free and open source, just for the paranoid, still a closed product) Jul 15 22:43:03 rivalarrival, Voice inversion? The answer is "Insecurely" ;) Jul 15 22:43:09 igrh Jul 15 22:43:14 Morge: though you have to design it to the GSM codec. Jul 15 22:43:16 gmaxwell: I said that earlier. Jul 15 22:43:34 roh: cryptophone? Jul 15 22:43:36 rivalarrival, nor will voice inverters typically survive GSM ... ;) Jul 15 22:43:49 * balrog-k1n wonders how much the SD was affecting the gsm if it was practically killing gps Jul 15 22:43:53 gmaxwell, yeah PTT you can do over gprs, you'll get the delays, but anyway Jul 15 22:44:09 gmaxwell: for single instrument pure tones - maybe - but not voice. Jul 15 22:44:49 Alright, you guys keep telling yourselves that. I KNOW it works. Jul 15 22:44:59 SpeedEvil: That could be sufficient. The codec I heard did give a very good quality voice on 4k. They said it was usable with way less, but it becomes impossible to identify the voice as the tone of voice and vocal characteristics disappear. IIRC, they actually wanted this on an airport tower to clean up the voice of the poor norwegian english. Jul 15 22:45:04 rivalarrival: have you tried it over GSM? Jul 15 22:45:10 SpeedEvil: YES. Jul 15 22:45:14 Morge: yes, you can get really bad audio over 1.3K Jul 15 22:45:35 rivalarrival: voice inversion? Not over 'similar' codecs. Jul 15 22:45:36 this makes sense. the best crypto is uncompressable... so that would def. be at odds with the gsm codec Jul 15 22:45:41 Oh you can do okay sounding speech in 1.3k with proprietary vocoders. look at MELP. Jul 15 22:45:55 gmaxwell: yeah - I was meaning open-source. Jul 15 22:46:08 what do things like stu phones use Jul 15 22:46:11 * SpeedEvil wishes for nice open-source speech synths and decoders. Jul 15 22:46:24 I'm associated to my ap but in iwconfig it shows: Encryption key:off Jul 15 22:46:27 but i'm using wpa Jul 15 22:46:34 Speex works at 2400 bps but sounds cruddy. It's not targeted at that rate.. (at higher rates Speex is industry leading) Jul 15 22:46:45 and this: wpa_supplicant -ieth0 -c/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf -B returned failed to set encryption Jul 15 22:46:50 SpeedEvil: Not nessesarily bad, just indistinguishable. Like an old computerized voce generator maybe. Still very easily recognized and understood, but not possible to identify the person in the other end based on voice characteristics. On an encrypted line, you would probably know who you are talking to anyway. Jul 15 22:47:12 on an encrypted line you'd _want_ to know ;] Jul 15 22:47:12 There is some interest from the amateur radio world in funding development for a modern 800-4000 bps speech code (www.codec2.org). Jul 15 22:47:36 'course, this is all trivially solvable Jul 15 22:47:36 mjr: That might be true. Jul 15 22:47:42 Vocoders are old tech.. there are a lot of examples that good poor quality in 1200-2400 baud that are long since patent expired. Jul 15 22:48:01 recognize voice, send text, synthesize voice according to other party's parameters Jul 15 22:48:05 Morge: Iw as meaning of open-source/available codecs give poor performance at that. Jul 15 22:48:08 \o/ Jul 15 22:48:26 mjr: Great! Go code the speech recogniser :) Jul 15 22:48:37 SpeedEvil: I will try to figure out something about that project. brb. Jul 15 22:48:55 recognize voice, send text, correct grammar, insert humour and eloquency, synthesise Jul 15 22:48:59 oh darn stu phones use propietary crypto Jul 15 22:49:16 awesomo4k: Ya think? :-) Jul 15 22:49:29 speedEvil: if you could handle 6kbit/sec, speex will give decent sounding results. Jul 15 22:49:37 actually i wouldn't think Jul 15 22:50:09 At about 6kbit/sec speex sounds roughly as good as full rate GSM. Jul 15 22:50:15 i'd think you'd want to use something very heavily scrutinized by the public Jul 15 22:50:48 encrypted speex on gsm csd will be fine :) Jul 15 22:50:59 Even really stupidly trivial works a bit higher freq - 3Kbits/sec - sample the derivative of thesignal at 3KHz, output a lowpassed version. Jul 15 22:50:59 Male voices only. Jul 15 22:51:12 Just get a pair of wind-talkers to encrypt and decrypt your conversation (= Jul 15 22:51:26 cheaper than a data plan Jul 15 22:52:06 does any of this have to do with LPC Jul 15 22:52:16 Here's a question - who are we trying to hide from? Jul 15 22:52:24 awesomo4k, just get a data only plan with unlimited bytes and have a service transcode for you. ;) Jul 15 22:52:24 anyone else have issues getting wifi going on the install that shipped with the FR? Jul 15 22:52:28 THEM! Jul 15 22:52:39 As in, what level of technology would "THEM!" possess? Jul 15 22:52:50 awesomo4k, most waveform coders (like speex) use linear prediction. Jul 15 22:52:56 Infinite! Jul 15 22:53:05 johngay: http://xkcd.com/257/ Jul 15 22:53:22 Then we need a one-time-pad encoding scheme. Jul 15 22:53:50 lossy infinite compression Jul 15 22:53:54 we need a pair of entangled photons in a pair of phones Jul 15 22:54:02 rivalarrival, a reasonable threat model is to say fuck the threat model and do the best you can reasonable do.. OTP is not reasonable. Jul 15 22:54:06 Seen that, but its great. Jul 15 22:54:15 otp has "key distribution" problems Jul 15 22:54:55 Don't give anyone the key! Jul 15 22:55:00 although a one time shipment of a 100 dollar hard drive filled with random data could encrypt quite a bit of low-bandwidth voice these days Jul 15 22:55:15 gmaxwell: If our encryption scheme doesn't significantly add to the difficulty in intercepting and decoding, there is no point in even doing it. Jul 15 22:55:35 Reasonably a device like openmoko could do strong symmetric key crypto with good public key key establishment.. stuff believed be be generally uncrackable today.. so why not use it, even if you're really only concerned about your kid sister listening in? :) Jul 15 22:55:57 my kid sister can't crack gsm. Jul 15 22:56:19 oh wait. those teenagers with fpgas can though. doh! Jul 15 22:57:12 Some people are just too paranoid these days. I always try to include the words 'nuclear' 'attack' 'bush' 'washington' in every phone conversation I have. Jul 15 22:57:29 * rivalarrival waves to the friendly NSA agents! Jul 15 22:57:31 SpeedEvil: Great title of that project. "Digital Filter". Does not say very much. Was hoping for a codec type hint. http://ask.bibsys.no/ask/action/show?pid=011485051&kid=biblio Jul 15 22:57:36 yeah you're not on any lists Jul 15 22:57:38 NSA: You guys having a good time? Jul 15 22:58:07 Why would my bosses be listening in??? Jul 15 22:58:23 Sorry, former bosses. Jul 15 22:58:40 NSA: Don't you want to go down to the S2B cafeteria for dinner? it's getting late and I know you're getting hungry. Jul 15 22:58:58 you worked for the NSA? doing what(unless you have to kill me after you tell me) Jul 15 22:59:25 anyone have tmobile and get gprs working? i'm trying these: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/T-Mobile_pppd_scripts Jul 15 22:59:31 and its saying connect script failed Jul 15 22:59:33 tech on encryption equipment. Jul 15 22:59:35 summatusmentis: Nothing all that sexy. Jul 15 23:00:02 I also tried following http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GPRS Jul 15 23:00:21 johngay: cool... crypto seems interesting to me, but I get the impression I'd be dreadfully bored by it if I actually went into it Jul 15 23:00:45 Morge: I don't know of the project Jul 15 23:01:00 Yea. That about covers it. The over-heard traffic is much more interesting that the details. Jul 15 23:01:32 awesomo4k: even a gig of OTP key for someone gives you a lot of talk-time. Jul 15 23:01:54 Wait - I missed something... Johngay: when did you work there? I left in 2004. Jul 15 23:02:00 I could tell you what actually crashed in Roswell, for instance. Jul 15 23:02:08 johncylee: was it elvis? Jul 15 23:02:19 86-96 Jul 15 23:02:28 please don't tell him. we're still not talking about that. Jul 15 23:02:50 uh hu huh. Jul 15 23:03:38 A proto-type jet fighter. Now who do I kill first? Jul 15 23:03:45 They never told me what crashed in Roswell. :( Jul 15 23:04:14 I was on the SIGINT side, though, not the tech side. Jul 15 23:05:01 They didn't tell me. I saw some traffic just after Clinton was elected. He'd promised to de-classify it to get the wacko vote. Jul 15 23:05:21 johngay: Steve Jobs? Jul 15 23:05:27 johngay: The choice isn't easy. Jul 15 23:05:50 It just says: "Connect script failed" when I use the tmobile ppd scripts Jul 15 23:06:03 Actually that info was de-classified a few years ago. Jul 15 23:06:13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MELPe Jul 15 23:06:50 somehow i don't think there's an open source version of this. Jul 15 23:06:52 nice keyboard to use with the FR http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/15/logitech-cordless-keyboard-for-wii-arrives-at-e3/ Jul 15 23:08:54 So, getting back to my reason for being here: What seems to be the root cause of the GPS problem??? Jul 15 23:09:10 johncylee: it's not been revealed. Jul 15 23:09:24 is that little round thingy near the sd card an antenna connector? Jul 15 23:09:29 johngay: however, the symptom is feed of the SD clock somehow into some part of the GPS upsetting it. Jul 15 23:09:30 for the gps? Jul 15 23:09:36 awesomo4k: yes Jul 15 23:09:54 maybe people are bumping it when they put their sd card in Jul 15 23:10:15 johngay: there is a software hack to turn the SD card off when not in use, but that's not an ideal solution. Jul 15 23:10:25 awesomo4k: doesn't seem very likely. Jul 15 23:10:26 nm. Jul 15 23:10:39 So it seems to be the SD clock feedback into the GPS circuit? Jul 15 23:11:33 johngay: In some form, yes. Jul 15 23:11:56 johngay: if it's inadequate decoupling, ... hasn't been revealed in public AIUI. Jul 15 23:12:22 So this means that the SD card is on and getting clock even if it's not mounted? Jul 15 23:12:24 has anyon had success getting gprs or wlan working on their freerunner? Should I update the image before I try this? Jul 15 23:12:27 neither are working for me Jul 15 23:12:48 sontek, wlan works for me Jul 15 23:12:56 ieatlint: are you using security? Jul 15 23:13:08 ieatlint: ioctl[PRISM2_IOCTL_HOSTAPD]: Operation not supported Jul 15 23:13:11 Failed to set encryption. Jul 15 23:13:11 gprs has an issue, i think pppd can't get ownership of the tty Jul 15 23:13:20 Thats what I get with wlan Jul 15 23:13:23 i'm using wpa/tkip Jul 15 23:13:39 johngay: yes Jul 15 23:13:51 johngay: It shouldn't have been - but the glamo was still clocking it. Jul 15 23:14:02 Greetings Jul 15 23:14:07 sontek, did you follow http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_wlan ? Jul 15 23:14:18 ieatlint: yeah, thats how i'm getting the error Jul 15 23:14:25 wpa_supplicant -ieth0 -c/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf -B Jul 15 23:14:33 I run that command and get the errors I posted above Jul 15 23:14:34 does that include the "ctrl_interface=/var/run/wpa_supplicant Jul 15 23:14:35 " at the top? Jul 15 23:14:41 So, does turning the SD card off gain any battery life gain? Jul 15 23:15:17 if I want to use ASU, what's the kernel I should be using? Jul 15 23:15:28 iwlist scan finds the network Jul 15 23:15:39 its just my wpa_supplicant can't set the key for some reason Jul 15 23:15:51 any idea how to get the full size onscreen keyboard? Jul 15 23:16:13 awesomo4k: http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Complete_QWERTY_Keyboard_On_The_Freerunner Jul 15 23:16:22 thx! Jul 15 23:16:27 no problem Jul 15 23:18:15 sontek, remove the -B Jul 15 23:18:25 see what it says Jul 15 23:19:15 ieatlint: http://rafb.net/p/4LBvkI62.html Jul 15 23:19:16 if it gives you timeout errors, open a new ssh session and type "iwconfig eth0 essid "youressid"" (enclose your essid in ") ... i'll bet you a coke that'll fix it Jul 15 23:19:31 yeah, its giving timeouts Jul 15 23:19:39 So it looks like there might be yet another hardware rev. soon? Jul 15 23:19:43 leave wpa_supplicant running while you do that Jul 15 23:20:29 ieatlint: so don't re-run wpa_supplicant? Jul 15 23:20:41 yeah, just keep wpa_supplicant running Jul 15 23:20:46 with the timeout errors and all Jul 15 23:20:52 ieatlint: that didn't fix it, its associated, but it doesn't have the key set Jul 15 23:20:56 Encryption key:off Jul 15 23:21:03 it will say that, ignore that Jul 15 23:21:07 and I can't get dhcp from it Jul 15 23:21:15 paste what it says now again Jul 15 23:21:29 ieatlint: paste what? Jul 15 23:21:51 is wpa_supplicant still timing out? Jul 15 23:23:14 * Dave hisses Jul 15 23:23:36 ieatlint: yeah, its still timeing out Jul 15 23:23:57 hmmm, let me try something... Jul 15 23:24:04 turn your head to right and cough Jul 15 23:24:50 http://rafb.net/p/strVX886.html Jul 15 23:24:54 thats my conf for it Jul 15 23:24:57 are you using the 2007.2 image that came with the phone? Jul 15 23:25:24 yeah, that's a weak password :P Jul 15 23:25:34 ieatlint: yeah Jul 15 23:25:38 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_wlan Jul 15 23:25:44 note that top of the example conf file Jul 15 23:25:58 there are 3 lines, you need those lines Jul 15 23:26:05 ieatlint: yeah, I have those too, sorry, missed the copy Jul 15 23:26:16 eapol and ap_scan Jul 15 23:26:20 and ctrl_interface Jul 15 23:26:38 do you know if there is a way to pull a config from network manager in gnome? Jul 15 23:26:41 that was a yes to running the image that came with the phone? Jul 15 23:26:43 i'm connected to the wireless with my laptop Jul 15 23:26:48 ieatlint: yeah Jul 15 23:26:53 ieatlint: should I try updating? Jul 15 23:26:54 perhaps that's the issue Jul 15 23:27:04 i never even tried on the april 2007.2 Jul 15 23:27:20 wifi works perfectly fine on the asu, 2007.2 daily builds and qtopia Jul 15 23:27:24 ieatlint: whats the best one to run? Jul 15 23:27:30 asu is the qtopia stuff? Jul 15 23:27:43 i've no answer to what the best is Jul 15 23:28:22 qtopia has the best text input methods, and the most complete feeling UI, but there is no gtk support (so no browser, no gps apps, etc) Jul 15 23:28:44 asu has the most features, including parts of qtopia's UI, but it's the least stable Jul 15 23:29:08 asu is the stack that comes with the phone then? Jul 15 23:29:13 nope Jul 15 23:29:17 2007.2 comes with the phone Jul 15 23:29:22 but a release from april Jul 15 23:29:24 confused yet? Jul 15 23:29:27 like april 28 or something Jul 15 23:29:38 there are daily builds -- the most recent of which 2007.2 Jul 15 23:30:17 it's relatively stable, has gtk support... if you're looking for features and stability, it may be the best compromise, but it will be far from perfect Jul 15 23:30:38 I don't need stability, i'm looking for being able to use my browser and wireless Jul 15 23:30:40 And the application of some config files and a new kernel (moko.mwester.net) make the 2007.2 image work reasonably well, compared to the others. Jul 15 23:30:44 everything outside that I really don't care about Jul 15 23:31:01 Ah, dunno that there are any images with a usable browser Jul 15 23:31:16 minimo isn't bad actually Jul 15 23:31:19 i've just got qemu running latest images...how do i "click" the buttons in qemu? Jul 15 23:31:28 it's far from perfect, but you can load webpages and the like Jul 15 23:31:38 * johngay puts on his flame retardant suit Jul 15 23:32:01 I can't wait to see what nVidia's new SoC has to offer. Jul 15 23:32:33 i need to get a cross-compiling environment setup... i'm just so lazy :( Jul 15 23:32:41 but i really want to get bluez alsa support in Jul 15 23:32:42 * mwester suspects the first thing it will offer will be a herd of Lawyers and an NDA that weighs more than a small automobile. Jul 15 23:34:02 Well, nVidia does offer the best accellerated 3D support. Jul 15 23:34:13 what's a good non-pastry dessert that can be made at home? Jul 15 23:34:34 so when i'm flashing, I boot into the nor menu, and choose usb console? Jul 15 23:34:50 sontek, no Jul 15 23:34:55 boot into the menu Jul 15 23:35:03 then with the usb plugged in, run dfu-util Jul 15 23:35:20 note that there is a timeout, and the phone will turn itself off if there is no activity Jul 15 23:35:53 ok Jul 15 23:35:58 and what image is the ASU one? Jul 15 23:36:02 i'll try him first Jul 15 23:36:17 if it says qtopia-x11 in the filename, it's asu Jul 15 23:36:53 ok, but asu is the one that supports gtk also, its not qtopia by itself? Jul 15 23:37:22 2007.2 and asu support gtk Jul 15 23:37:26 qtopia image does not Jul 15 23:37:38 asu has parts of qtopia in it (like its sms app) Jul 15 23:37:39 * chillywilly has his openmoko freerunner Jul 15 23:37:43 Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080715-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 Jul 15 23:37:46 i'm grabbing that one Jul 15 23:37:53 that would be the asu Jul 15 23:37:57 sontek: qtopia can't support gtk cause it doesn't use x11 Jul 15 23:38:06 How do you setup GPRS Jul 15 23:38:21 Sargun: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner Jul 15 23:38:29 Sargun: it has a link there, but I couldn't get it working Jul 15 23:38:43 ieatlint: what kernel is best with it? just latest release? Jul 15 23:39:28 I don't see any kernels in http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080715/ Jul 15 23:39:38 sontek: uImage* Jul 15 23:39:54 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080715/uImage-om-gta02-latest.bin Jul 15 23:40:01 thanks Jul 15 23:40:33 i love projects where one has to memorise mass amounts of information Jul 15 23:40:41 lol Jul 15 23:41:20 hi all Jul 15 23:41:26 Isn't that what attracted you to Linux in the first place> Jul 15 23:41:51 * cesarb sees his Konversation flashing in the corner Jul 15 23:41:53 hmm, for some reason dfu-util thinks I have 2 devices plugged in Jul 15 23:41:56 Found Runtime: [0x413c:0x8103] devnum=0, cfg=0, intf=2, alt=0, name="UNDEFINED" Jul 15 23:42:00 Found Runtime: [0x1d50:0x5119] devnum=0, cfg=0, intf=2, alt=0, name="UNDEFINED" Jul 15 23:42:01 Don't worry, I also want that code finished ;-) Jul 15 23:42:22 should I just pick a random one? Jul 15 23:42:53 yeah, dfu-util did that to me too... was detecting my bluetooth dongle Jul 15 23:42:59 I have just updated the google custom search engine for openmoko. Now you can add it to firefox search enginges. URL is http://aiurlano.netsons.org/OpenMoko/ Jul 15 23:43:15 you can use lsusb to find which one is really yours, and then specify the device to dfu-util Jul 15 23:43:40 sontek, dfu-util has a --list parameter that shows the devices Jul 15 23:44:22 sontek, my neo1973 showed firmware upgrade device or such in the name field Jul 15 23:45:01 sontek, be sure to use dfu-util with root account (su -) Jul 15 23:46:34 * chillywilly is so excited Jul 15 23:46:51 * chillywilly is attempting to remove the microSD card holder Jul 15 23:47:29 i'm going to try to dual boot tonight :P Jul 15 23:47:40 I have a bunch of sd cards Jul 15 23:48:17 chillywilly, uhm, i wouldn't do that Jul 15 23:48:45 how else would I insert a card then? Jul 15 23:49:05 oh, you mean to open the holder Jul 15 23:49:20 yea except I am not seeing the tabs the wiki is referencing Jul 15 23:49:29 the "latch" Jul 15 23:49:40 it swings out Jul 15 23:49:49 * chillywilly is following the wiki --> http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner Jul 15 23:49:51 the hinge is on the end closest to the edge of the device Jul 15 23:50:05 just pull lightly from the middle of the other end Jul 15 23:50:27 sure I can see which way they want you to insert it via the picture on the slot holder Jul 15 23:51:23 they mention not pulling up on the middle but releasing the latches Jul 15 23:51:36 so, I want to go from qtopia image to ASU. Do I need another kernel? Jul 15 23:51:39 chillywilly: for the microSD just pull up Jul 15 23:53:10 got it ; Jul 15 23:53:10 ) Jul 15 23:54:02 :] Jul 15 23:54:05 microSD card installed ;P Jul 15 23:54:11 wiki wiki Jul 15 23:55:57 Kewl, chillywilly, you've just killed GPS (= Jul 15 23:58:06 the wiki really needs to be totally reorganised... Jul 15 23:59:06 Well, get started then (= Jul 16 00:00:17 i lack the knowledge to be able to do all too much Jul 16 00:00:49 one of the problems is that what works on one image may not on another, and the active development means information quickly can become outdated Jul 16 00:02:11 * chillywilly is booting up the stock image Jul 16 00:02:30 cool Jul 16 00:02:59 * Dave high-fives chillywilly Jul 16 00:03:06 Get things working finally? :) Jul 16 00:05:10 my apartment is depressingly devoid of food Jul 16 00:05:35 asu image is on its way to my openmoko Jul 16 00:05:37 then its food time Jul 16 00:05:43 food's over rated. It atracts ants and spoils. Jul 16 00:05:48 anyone using the freerunner with arch? why is usb0 not showing up? Jul 16 00:06:31 johngay, and that is why i am underweight Jul 16 00:07:09 Try ice. That will stop those nagging food cravings (-= Jul 16 00:07:38 so do water and alcohol Jul 16 00:07:45 ordering pizza also helps Jul 16 00:08:03 But crystal meth lasts for days. Jul 16 00:08:36 man, if i got caught with crystal meth here... Jul 16 00:08:39 i'd be in prison Jul 16 00:09:07 Then don't get caught. Duh! Jul 16 00:09:51 hello, i need help with gadget usb for qemu(gta01 emulated)...i followed the howto at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu#Setting_up_USB_connection and usb0 doesn't show up...and under qemu i have no error messages... Jul 16 00:10:31 yeah, the police here have too much time on their hands... not worth the risk :P Jul 16 00:10:40 plus the whole addiction, health consequences, etc Jul 16 00:11:14 alright, about to order a pizza on my freerunner... this is truly exciting Jul 16 00:11:35 i should create a wiki page to commemorate this moment Jul 16 00:11:47 kdubois, under qemu i have the same problem...what is arch? arch-linux? Jul 16 00:12:10 ieatlint: you need a pizza-proof case, before ordering a pizza onto your freerunner. Jul 16 00:12:16 Gnutoo: arch linux. see if root can see it Jul 16 00:12:42 kdubois, i have run qemu as root and i ran ifconfig as root Jul 16 00:12:50 Whats the plan for asu/fso? Get ASU fully functional and then work on FSO? Jul 16 00:12:58 or are both being developed at the same time? Jul 16 00:13:05 ASU components get merged into FSO Jul 16 00:13:08 FSO is the future. Jul 16 00:13:16 As do GTK components Jul 16 00:13:20 is there a timeline at all? Jul 16 00:13:22 Gnutoo: i'm working with a phone here, qemu setup comes later Jul 16 00:13:38 SpeedEvil, don't worry, every time i bark orders at pizza, it never seems to comply... it is unlikely the pizza will actually go onto the phone, even if ordered to Jul 16 00:13:40 SpeedEvil: is FSO planned within a year? or is it a longer term goal? Jul 16 00:13:45 maybe if i shout in german Jul 16 00:14:09 Sonicadvance: Now ---- DNF on FSO --- User ready phone. Jul 16 00:14:27 sonte: Jul 16 00:14:31 DNF? Jul 16 00:14:38 Duke Nukem Forever. Jul 16 00:14:47 hah Jul 16 00:15:04 lol Jul 16 00:15:21 my mission is to get citrix to run on this phone so I can use it to access crap at work remotely ;) Jul 16 00:15:41 hmm, qemu is now running and responding to presses...nice :-) Jul 16 00:15:59 chillywilly, you should make that ;) Jul 16 00:16:13 that is a great idea and a great use :) Jul 16 00:16:38 I'm booted into ASU :) Jul 16 00:16:50 yea well there's too many software stacks and it'd be nice if I could run something where I could make table calls and sms messages Jul 16 00:16:57 so is there anything for syncing contacts on this yet? Jul 16 00:16:58 stable* Jul 16 00:17:04 or should I start saving everyone on my sim? Jul 16 00:17:12 chillywilly, is that all you want to do? Jul 16 00:17:18 It certainly couldn't hurt :) Jul 16 00:17:22 for now at least :) Jul 16 00:17:24 chillywilly, because the qtopia image will do that for you quite well Jul 16 00:17:29 cool Jul 16 00:17:34 I'll have to try that out then Jul 16 00:17:39 what do you need on the desktop to sync? Jul 16 00:17:40 or is ASU a better choice? Jul 16 00:17:45 hmm, ASU is quite slow, is it because it has debug symbols or something? Jul 16 00:17:46 asu is unstable Jul 16 00:17:51 I am still not convinced the qtopia image does anything else worthwhile... yet :| Jul 16 00:17:53 or was glibc a bad choice Jul 16 00:17:59 i had people telling me they tried to call me and it just went to voicemail Jul 16 00:18:19 Dave, come now, it has a calculator Jul 16 00:18:29 hahaha Jul 16 00:18:40 * Dave rolls his eyes at smirks Jul 16 00:18:45 s/at/and/ Jul 16 00:18:51 I think I might've got some nagios pages from work but I can't look at them Jul 16 00:20:32 yea, I have some nagios pages from work but I can't figure out if I can view them ;P Jul 16 00:20:45 heh Jul 16 00:21:23 wheres the terminal in ASU? Jul 16 00:21:42 I just see a synopsis in a list of messages but not the full message body... Jul 16 00:21:48 ah i saw an error in the terminal: gadget_attach: warning: failed to open gadgetfs: -16 Jul 16 00:21:52 it doesn't come with one pre-installed, sontek Jul 16 00:24:09 is there a way to connect to wpa wireless with iwconfig Jul 16 00:24:13 without playing with wpa_supplicant? Jul 16 00:24:54 Just got my freerunner. awesomeness Jul 16 00:25:09 :) Jul 16 00:25:17 sontek, only if you don't want encryption Jul 16 00:28:10 got a gps fix in about 600s without an sd card :D i've been watching the thread on the list, glad that got sorted out Jul 16 00:28:34 how long does opkg update take the first time? Jul 16 00:28:57 a mysterious hardware bug is always a nice thing Jul 16 00:29:01 kdubois, the same it takes every time you run it, under a minute Jul 16 00:29:13 lots of bugs get found and fixed/improved in many areas Jul 16 00:29:23 it just downloads gzip'ed lists of packages Jul 16 00:29:24 ieatlint: so you've had success with wlan with the asu ? Jul 16 00:29:28 in software, before it turns out it was something silly Jul 16 00:29:30 sontek, yes Jul 16 00:29:56 ieatlint: http://rafb.net/p/DURyY112.html Jul 16 00:29:59 doc|home: it's in seattle now ;) Jul 16 00:30:04 ieatlint: I get those errors and then it doesn't associate Jul 16 00:30:11 doc|home: here tomorrow :D Jul 16 00:30:16 sontek, ignore those errors Jul 16 00:30:16 I was able to call and converse with my wife using the stock image Jul 16 00:30:26 i get those same errors, and it never made a difference Jul 16 00:30:31 ieatlint: ok Jul 16 00:30:39 ieatlint: it doesn't associate and I can't get dhcp still Jul 16 00:30:40 ieatlint: its taking more than a minute to do... i can ping that url it says its downloading from though Jul 16 00:31:03 sontek, try specifying the essid again Jul 16 00:31:38 how can I disable the psplash in the (old) moko rootfs? Jul 16 00:31:42 kdubois, i dunno... Jul 16 00:32:44 ill figured it out. i still havent gotten over the fact that i'm sshed. into. a. phone. :D Jul 16 00:32:48 just timed it, opkg update took 22.26s Jul 16 00:33:04 i'm on wifi =) Jul 16 00:33:06 hello Jul 16 00:33:14 * sontek dances Jul 16 00:33:23 the essid thing work then? Jul 16 00:33:44 how can I start openmoko-today from ssh? Jul 16 00:33:46 ieatlint: yeah, had to do it again, but also had to remove a line in my wpa_supplicant Jul 16 00:34:08 ieatlint: is there a way to just be able to type on the asu keyboard when sending a text message? Jul 16 00:34:11 exco, i assume that's some sort of gui app? Jul 16 00:34:16 ieatlint: it seems to want me to select each word I type Jul 16 00:34:23 exco, "export DISPLAY=:0.0" and then run the exec Jul 16 00:34:30 dcordes: rm /etc/rc?.d/???psplash Jul 16 00:34:52 and I can't figure out how to backspace Jul 16 00:34:53 thanks Jul 16 00:34:58 np Jul 16 00:35:00 /.'ed! Jul 16 00:35:12 sontek, i think you can get a full size qwerty keyboard on it... i dunno, i haven't liked the asu Jul 16 00:35:14 ieatlint: it said, "signature check failed" Jul 16 00:35:28 been using qtopia for real use, and flashing 2007.2 for screwing with it Jul 16 00:35:44 kdubois, yeah, that scared me too.. but apparently just ignore that, it still updates Jul 16 00:36:03 ieatlint: yeah, I might go back to 2007.2, I had a full keyboard on it Jul 16 00:36:10 ieatlint: but wireless works on ASU :) Jul 16 00:36:18 but thats probably just the kernel anyways Jul 16 00:36:25 wireless works for me on the current 2007.2 Jul 16 00:36:48 bah... Jul 16 00:37:04 ieatlint: have you tried dual booting? Jul 16 00:37:06 the SMS software on the stock image is hokey ;P Jul 16 00:37:09 one on sd and one on hdd? Jul 16 00:37:11 wireless also works for me on qtopia Jul 16 00:37:12 is that possible? Jul 16 00:37:32 yeah, I can't run qtopia because I need GTK for the apps I want to port over Jul 16 00:37:35 sontek, i believe it is, but having the sd card in now kills the gps... at the moment, i'm picking the gps Jul 16 00:38:26 are you guys using the stock qtopia image? Jul 16 00:38:49 when i need a phone, i use qtopia, when i want a toy, i use 2007.2 :) Jul 16 00:38:59 chillywilly, I am Jul 16 00:39:01 *grumble* UPS: "deliver between 8am and 7pm" Bah. Jul 16 00:39:08 ieatlint: your phone didn't work in 2007.2? mine did Jul 16 00:39:10 hah Jul 16 00:39:15 Hello Jul 16 00:39:17 or... whenever they want Jul 16 00:39:20 which is more realistic :) Jul 16 00:39:22 sontek, no, it works Jul 16 00:39:29 Dave: heh. :/ Jul 16 00:39:42 2007.2's interface for SMS is much better than ASU's Jul 16 00:39:43 but qtopia feels like a real product, whereas 2007.2 feels like... a hacked interface Jul 16 00:39:52 there is no way to continuously type, you have to select each word Jul 16 00:39:57 and there isn't a way to back space Jul 16 00:40:18 sontek, draw a line across the keyboard horizontally Jul 16 00:40:22 to the left to backspace Jul 16 00:40:28 to the right to make a space Jul 16 00:41:13 i wonder why no one has created wiki pages for each of the images Jul 16 00:41:57 maybe after my pizza arrives i'll make some sort of attempt at that Jul 16 00:42:08 ieatlint, they change very often Jul 16 00:42:11 ieatlint: thanks, that worked, thats a weird setup :p Jul 16 00:42:17 Which will arrive first!? Your pizza or your freerunner! Jul 16 00:42:19 ieatlint, a bug will appear and be gone very quickly Jul 16 00:42:20 ieatlint: I plan on documenting the parts I had trouble with Jul 16 00:42:32 emacsen, there are some things that don't change Jul 16 00:42:34 * retracile bets on the pizza Jul 16 00:42:40 like explaining qtopia doesn't have gtk Jul 16 00:42:52 sure, you can find out on your own, but it's convenient to give such info Jul 16 00:42:53 :p Jul 16 00:42:58 ieatlint, sure Jul 16 00:43:07 before the disappointment and regret sets in? :) Jul 16 00:43:15 plus just general structure information Jul 16 00:43:32 Dave: regret? Jul 16 00:43:44 i've no regrets yet :P Jul 16 00:43:48 perhaps they would not have flashed that particular image, in hindsight :P Jul 16 00:43:51 YET Jul 16 00:43:53 haahahahahaha Jul 16 00:43:55 JUST YOU WAIT! >:) Jul 16 00:44:06 i like your cynicism :) Jul 16 00:44:18 Excellent! Jul 16 00:44:41 ieatlint: do you know if there is a way to do characters? exclamation/question marks? Jul 16 00:44:41 Dave: I expect no regrets, though I fear disappointments. There is a difference. ;) Jul 16 00:45:27 * Dave offers ieatlint a complimentary copy of his newsletter. Jul 16 00:45:42 retracile, but of course :) Jul 16 00:45:48 sontek, uhm, i dunno... i don't remember the keyboard from the asu well Jul 16 00:46:11 http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080715-googles-android-platform-not-so-open-after-all.html Jul 16 00:46:15 zing Jul 16 00:46:16 which image should I give a try if I want some better apps then what's on 1007.2? Jul 16 00:46:20 er, 2007.2 Jul 16 00:46:22 heh, yeah :p Jul 16 00:46:27 qtopia? Jul 16 00:46:28 * SpeedEvil ponders 1007.2 Jul 16 00:46:35 sontek, try drawing vertical lines.. Jul 16 00:46:44 What's that one in, Greek? Jul 16 00:47:16 chillywilly, no use current 2007.2 or asu Jul 16 00:47:23 then install apps from opkg Jul 16 00:47:32 ok Jul 16 00:47:46 there's a few things I haven't figured out how to do yet with the keyboard Jul 16 00:47:53 unless it really is this crippled Jul 16 00:47:57 ssh into the phone to do it Jul 16 00:48:02 like capital letters ;P Jul 16 00:48:15 you'll drive yourself mad typing commands into the console on the phone Jul 16 00:48:23 ok, but I won't always have ssh access ;P Jul 16 00:48:44 that's no excuse not to use it when you do have it Jul 16 00:48:50 hmm.. according to someone on OM, GPS not working with a SD card will count as a DOA criteria Jul 16 00:48:55 so I can return it if I like Jul 16 00:49:00 s/on/at/ Jul 16 00:49:04 * kdubois hopes gta03 has a slide out keyboard Jul 16 00:49:10 well some sort of adaptive search thing would be nice ;P Jul 16 00:49:17 heh Jul 16 00:49:20 you wish :P Jul 16 00:49:26 heheh Jul 16 00:49:33 bash command completion perhaps ;P Jul 16 00:49:38 it does Jul 16 00:50:00 Has anyone bought an OpenMoko from a distributor? Jul 16 00:50:07 I have, Sargun_screen Jul 16 00:50:17 Stroller: Which distributor? Jul 16 00:50:49 chillywilly: if you're talking about the factory image then upper case is done using the ^ on the bottom-left key Jul 16 00:50:52 my pizza should be here soon... you should all be excited for me Jul 16 00:50:58 Sargun_screen: Truebox Jul 16 00:50:59 opkg update has honestly been going for 10 minutes. Jul 16 00:51:14 kdubois, it could be a weird routing issue Jul 16 00:51:18 Stroller: ok Jul 16 00:51:20 type "route" Jul 16 00:51:36 if it lists two lines with the word "default", then your routes be screwed Jul 16 00:51:43 hmm.. I wonder when the next hardware rev is going to be then Jul 16 00:51:53 About a year. Jul 16 00:52:01 how about typing actual numbers? Jul 16 00:52:01 ieatlint: bingo. two default routes Jul 16 00:52:16 Sargun_screen: really? so it'll be a year at least before we see the GPS fix? Jul 16 00:52:16 route del default gw 192.168.0.200 Jul 16 00:52:34 pizza! Jul 16 00:52:38 They might do minor reivsions Jul 16 00:52:47 I think he's talking about the major rev. Jul 16 00:52:50 yeah I was wondering about that Jul 16 00:52:58 ieatlint: export DISPLAY=:0.0 && exec openmoko-today? Jul 16 00:53:00 because my package comes tomorrow (according to UPS) Jul 16 00:53:02 and I can still refuse it Jul 16 00:53:10 <|Marco|> has anyone here had any experience with calibrating the display in landscape mode ? Jul 16 00:53:10 And I think a year is rather optimistic. Jul 16 00:53:21 ieatlint: what all apps does qtopia have for it? Jul 16 00:53:28 ieatlint: very good phone stack and nothing else? Jul 16 00:53:29 <|Marco|> I keep getting pointer offset to left Jul 16 00:53:29 ieatlint: you're routing your pizza, locally? o_O Jul 16 00:53:44 ieatlint: even easier, ifdown usb0 Jul 16 00:53:51 ieatlint: is there a reason the phone stack from qtopia can't run on ASU? Jul 16 00:54:11 PPP? Jul 16 00:54:22 Pizza to Programmer Protocol Jul 16 00:54:59 First International Computer America Jul 16 00:55:03 Dave: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2324.txt?number=2324 Jul 16 00:55:17 First International Computer America is local but I couldn't get in contact with them. Jul 16 00:55:28 I don't know if they are even alive. Jul 16 00:56:52 |Marco|: From what I know it's an issue with XGlamo (i.e. the glamo-customized X) Jul 16 00:57:25 pizza tastes better when made by people who don't speak english Jul 16 00:57:40 Absolutely! Jul 16 00:58:03 mmm, heartburn Jul 16 00:59:10 hm.. is there a page that lists all the widgets available to openmoko app developers and perhaps gives pics of what they all look like on the phone? Jul 16 01:02:32 Psi: If you're speaking of GTK+, use whatever GTK+ offers. The rest resides in libmokoui2 - and that is mostly just defining standard icons Jul 16 01:02:55 http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ for reference Jul 16 01:03:45 <|Marco|> abraxa_: are there any workarounds that you know of ? Jul 16 01:04:07 |Marco|: No workaround needed - a bugfix is Jul 16 01:04:24 And no, no one worked on it yet as far as I'm aware Jul 16 01:04:34 thanks Jul 16 01:05:16 Are you guys sure FICA has it? Jul 16 01:05:25 FICA? Jul 16 01:05:27 er, FIC Jul 16 01:05:28 http://www.fic.com.tw/product/mbp.htm Jul 16 01:05:35 First International Computer America Jul 16 01:05:42 http://www.fic.com.tw/product/mbp.htm Jul 16 01:05:47 Define "has" Jul 16 01:06:16 does FIC(A) carry, and or sell the OpenMoko? Jul 16 01:06:33 * chillywilly is ssh'd into his phone Jul 16 01:06:57 hmm. this make sme wonder if I should just sell my phone rather than refuse the package :p Jul 16 01:07:09 root@om-gta02:~# opkg install gpe-icons Jul 16 01:07:10 An error ocurred, return value: 2. Jul 16 01:07:16 kelvie_work: Where are you located? Jul 16 01:07:22 Sargun_screen: Vancouver, BC Jul 16 01:07:37 Oh, a canadian. Jul 16 01:07:39 the tax is about 50 bucks so if I'll have to send it back to get fixed up for a hardware revision Jul 16 01:07:46 it'll be another $100 total Jul 16 01:08:08 GPS + SD cards not working together is a pretty big flaw Jul 16 01:08:19 date on my phone seems wrong Jul 16 01:08:21 ;P Jul 16 01:08:30 * chillywilly runs opkg update Jul 16 01:09:30 hello, the power button seems not to work in qemu...i press space and nothing happens (but aux(enter) gives me the aux menu) that is in a 2007.2 like image...so what is the command that brings the power menu? Jul 16 01:09:52 Why would you have to pay tax twice? You only bought it once. Jul 16 01:10:07 is there a difference between opkg and ipkg? Jul 16 01:10:23 johngay: customs doesn't work like that Jul 16 01:10:23 not that im aware of Jul 16 01:10:29 "value of the package + 13%" Jul 16 01:10:37 doesn't matter the reason Jul 16 01:10:41 Yea, one's got an 'o' and the other has an 'i' Jul 16 01:10:46 ^ Jul 16 01:10:59 I'd fight that. They can only charge you tax on a purchase. Jul 16 01:11:07 plus shipping will never cost less than 50 bucks Jul 16 01:11:12 UPS charges a minimum of $45 brokerage Jul 16 01:11:20 unless you pay for the premium shipping Jul 16 01:11:25 which conveniently costs about $45 more Jul 16 01:11:50 johngay: it's pointless to fight that.. many have tried Jul 16 01:11:51 Sargun_screen: Nope, FIC has nothing to do with Openmoko, Inc. aside from being a parent company Jul 16 01:12:05 kelvie_work: here in the UK you can register an outgoing parcel as being returned for warranty repairs, Then when it comes back you don't pay tax on it Jul 16 01:12:12 anyone? Jul 16 01:12:28 I'd think Openmoko should pay shipping on a faulty product. Jul 16 01:12:41 Stroller: hmm.. I have not heard of being able to do that, but it sounds like I should look into it Jul 16 01:12:58 I don't mind too much biting the shipping this round Jul 16 01:12:59 Well, they haven't decided yet what to do about the problem Jul 16 01:13:09 I'd never pay tax twice on something. Jul 16 01:13:17 which is why I'll probably refuse it Jul 16 01:13:18 Gnutoo: I've seen several people report that behavior, with no response from balrog-kun so far, as far as I'm aware. You might want to check the trac Jul 16 01:13:52 they haven't even mentioned how they are going to handle the hardware fix yet Jul 16 01:13:57 I think it's a little early jumping to conclusions. If they can shut the GPS down for 1/2 a second, grab data from the SDcard, shut the SDcard down again until it's needed, then it's a software fix Jul 16 01:13:59 whether or not sending it back to get fixed will even be an option Jul 16 01:14:06 that's hardly a fix :/ Jul 16 01:14:20 chillywilly: opkg is the successor to ipkg Jul 16 01:14:31 After all, this isn't apple were talking about. Jul 16 01:14:41 are all freerunner affected by the gps/sd problem? Jul 16 01:14:47 kelvie_work: then don't accept the delivery tomorrow Jul 16 01:14:54 Stroller: that's the plan :p Jul 16 01:14:55 kelvie_work: that's my advice Jul 16 01:15:16 I'd accept it if we didn't have such lame customs protocols Jul 16 01:15:18 Great. Now stop whining about it, kelvie_work Jul 16 01:15:27 that's the only issue really Jul 16 01:15:28 abraxa_, ok thanks a lot Jul 16 01:15:33 If it's a problem with the SD clock affecting the GPS, I'd think all would be affected. Jul 16 01:15:41 abraxa_: it's some difference between how the key is handled between u-boot and linux.. i didn't think it was really important enough to put much effort into it so far Jul 16 01:15:46 my mac is pissing me off Jul 16 01:15:47 abraxa_: was just explaining in #qemu :p Jul 16 01:16:06 zbowling: mine, too Jul 16 01:16:11 abraxa_: so I wonder when openwrt will switch to it then ;) Jul 16 01:16:16 balrog-kun: Oh. Thanks for the heads-up :) Jul 16 01:16:42 is the symptom failure in getting a fix? Jul 16 01:16:43 XorA|gone: we got SD working. Jul 16 01:16:57 i need a damn insert key!!! vi on terminal isn't handling backspace as ^H Jul 16 01:19:42 On GPS. Jul 16 01:20:05 wtf: http://www.koolu.com/ Jul 16 01:21:03 GPS is currently affected by a problem when the SD is accessed - it seems to lose or find it very hard to obtain - lock on satellites. There is a patch to turn off the clock to SD when not using it, but accessing SD will still disturb GPS. Jul 16 01:21:46 GPS is currently affected by a problem when the SD is accessed - it seems to lose or find it very hard to obtain - lock on satellites. There is a patch to turn off the clock to SD when not using it, but accessing SD will still disturb GPS. There is a hardware fix, but how this can be applied to units in the field is unclear at the moment. Jul 16 01:21:47 having the sd card mounted shouldnt affect gps then? Jul 16 01:21:51 SpeedEvil, can it be solved by software? Jul 16 01:22:02 Does anyone have sales statistics regarding the Freerunner Jul 16 01:22:04 SpeedEvil, because i plan to have my rootfs on sd Jul 16 01:22:07 gn; no - unless you don't use SD at all Jul 16 01:22:25 SpeedEvil, ouch...i'd better not use the gps... Jul 16 01:22:44 Sargun_screen: http://www.mauve.plus.com/Freerunner.gif is a graph of the stock level on the US shop. Jul 16 01:23:05 SpeedEvil: Do you know what the hardware fix is? Jul 16 01:23:36 rtp: it's been implied it's an added capacitor. Jul 16 01:23:50 trm: I don't think it's been explicitly stated. Jul 16 01:24:07 Oooooo soldering. I can hardly wait! Jul 16 01:24:20 So those of us with SMT soldering skills should be able to apply it fairly handily? Jul 16 01:24:26 Maybe. Jul 16 01:24:54 I don't know the details. Jul 16 01:25:22 You seem to know a lot more than anyone else (= Jul 16 01:25:41 We're getting more on the 25th, right? Jul 16 01:25:47 johncylee: I just lurk here a lot. Jul 16 01:26:05 johngay: and have some knowledge of the hardware and electronics assembly. Jul 16 01:26:10 I've been looking for something to do with these: http://arnoldservice.com/comparison_good_and_bad_round_capacitors.jpg Jul 16 01:26:24 I have net access from my phone via USB networking Jul 16 01:26:27 weee Jul 16 01:26:46 rtp: the ones involved will probably be 0201 caps. 1mm*0.5mm or so. Jul 16 01:27:13 anyone know how to resolve opkg updates not working? Jul 16 01:27:31 sontek: ifdown usb0, if youre connected via wifi Jul 16 01:28:00 SpeedEvil: Thanks for the update! Jul 16 01:28:01 kdubois: ahh, I can't be connected to usb and wireless? Jul 16 01:28:13 SpeedEvil: yeah, thanks for that Jul 16 01:28:14 kdubois: can I use the internet from my PC? Jul 16 01:28:20 Well, thanks for the very specific and useful info. I'm guessing that this fix will be incorporated in future batch runs. Jul 16 01:28:23 kdubois: typing on the moko is annoying compared to ssh :) Jul 16 01:28:25 sontek: you can, its just you need to have the routes set up right Jul 16 01:28:49 Can I use the internet from my PC? Jul 16 01:28:59 don't you mean, freerumner? :P Jul 16 01:29:17 Dave: no, I mean plug into USB and use my laptops internet :) Jul 16 01:29:19 i think he means masquerading the connection Jul 16 01:29:28 sontek: yes Jul 16 01:29:42 sontek: look on the wiki - search for iptables Jul 16 01:29:59 right Jul 16 01:30:05 no, no Jul 16 01:30:15 it's under OM wiki/USB_Networking Jul 16 01:30:17 yes, yes, yes Jul 16 01:31:13 possible to do a hard reset without pulling the battery? Jul 16 01:31:16 maybe * 4 Jul 16 01:31:22 or another way to recover from a kernel panic? Jul 16 01:31:57 penguinator: kernel panics will need a hard reset Jul 16 01:32:16 Unfortunately Jul 16 01:32:22 and the stupid red led incessantly blinks :P Jul 16 01:32:26 But i have to take out the battery to do that? Jul 16 01:32:30 Well, time for bed. Guess I'll have to discuss the supperiority of nVidia another day (= Jul 16 01:32:32 yea it is Jul 16 01:32:57 kdubois: cool last name ;) Jul 16 01:33:51 Not as cool as mine (= Jul 16 01:34:01 I tried the asu, but it claims it couldn't find the ext2 partition even though it was in the list of partitions Jul 16 01:34:03 that is true Jul 16 01:34:19 penguinator: oh hai Jul 16 01:34:53 whats the difference between glibc asu package and om? Jul 16 01:35:48 sdubois92: hi Jul 16 01:36:17 hmm, when I shell to the usb its shelling to me instead of the phone Jul 16 01:36:27 7 days until more openmoko neo freerunners are in stock, right? Jul 16 01:37:05 * daMaestro 's freerunner will be here tomorrow Jul 16 01:38:07 sontek: 192.168.0.202 Jul 16 01:38:11 i had the same problem Jul 16 01:38:17 you are 192.168.0.200 Jul 16 01:38:25 assuming your making the mistake i did Jul 16 01:38:32 the phone is 202 Jul 16 01:38:33 penguinator: yeap Jul 16 01:38:34 thanks Jul 16 01:38:39 no problem Jul 16 01:39:25 haha, nice sdubois92 Jul 16 01:40:28 if there are some people that can't ssh to their phone...they should check if they have another interface such as their wifi that use the same kind of address that is to say 192.168.0.* Jul 16 01:40:37 what is the sd card called in /dev ? Jul 16 01:41:33 Gnutoo, yeah, they really should change that to an easy to remember one that no one really uses Jul 16 01:41:43 like 10.254.254.x Jul 16 01:41:54 ieatlint, lol good idea Jul 16 01:42:11 * retracile uses the 10 network Jul 16 01:42:26 do you use 10.254.254.0/24 though? Jul 16 01:42:28 is this the 2007.2 image? Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080715-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 Jul 16 01:42:47 sontek, yes Jul 16 01:42:51 ieatlint: no, specifically because it might get used by someone else picking a "standard" ip range. Jul 16 01:43:02 should I be using the glibc ones or the other ones? Jul 16 01:43:24 there aren't glibc ones Jul 16 01:43:26 mmcblk0 Jul 16 01:43:28 glibc is a core component Jul 16 01:43:37 kdubois: ^ Jul 16 01:43:44 then p0 etc for partitions Jul 16 01:43:46 ieatlint, i used 10.0.0.* but i switched to 192.168.0.* as it is compatible with a /23 netmask with 192.168.1.* (all theses addresses but 192.168.1.* are openvpn addresses) Jul 16 01:43:52 retracile, if you want an obscure nonroutable range, use 172... Jul 16 01:43:57 ieatlint: whats the difference between the image I just pasted and openmoko-devel-image-om-gta02 ? Jul 16 01:44:05 ieatlint, 192.168.1.1 is my router... Jul 16 01:44:05 And it's EBDIC Jul 16 01:44:07 oops Jul 16 01:44:24 got a strange problem, when i type exit in terminal, it quits and then starts again, and starts opening gazillions of tabs Jul 16 01:44:47 sontek, absolutely nothing, the openmoko-devel-image-om-gta02.jffs2 is a symbolic link to the other methinks Jul 16 01:44:52 i must go and try to sleep...bye Jul 16 01:45:03 ieatlint: A previous employer used that range... Jul 16 01:45:08 i don't download that though, because it's devoid of any identifying text Jul 16 01:45:21 retracile, yeah, i use it Jul 16 01:46:19 i used to work for an isp that had blocks of IPs in like 172.64.x ... was funny, advanced users when we assigned them an ip were always "wtf, i don't want some bullshit nat'ed connection" Jul 16 01:47:07 thanks penguinator Jul 16 01:47:21 freeme phone Jul 16 01:47:50 phone in hand :) Jul 16 01:48:53 are there any apps like network manager for the moko? Jul 16 01:49:47 ieatlint: heh Jul 16 01:50:17 sontek, no, not really Jul 16 01:50:33 qtopia has a half assed app that tries to work Jul 16 01:50:49 someone needs to write one Jul 16 01:51:43 a better one, preferably. *grumble* Jul 16 01:52:09 if i weren't so lazy, i'd try and throw one together in gtk Jul 16 01:52:15 but i'm an american.. Jul 16 01:53:12 whats the most usable media player? Jul 16 01:53:54 ieatlint: is there a generic interface to detect them, or do most apps use iwlist and parse it? Jul 16 01:54:57 i dunno, i imagine they just parse iwlist, but i can't say for sure Jul 16 01:55:08 I bet nm could be ported, and then we'd just have to use its dbus interface for a UI app Jul 16 01:59:03 so what do I have to do to be able to use usb and wifi for opkgupdate? Jul 16 02:01:22 sontek: you added something to /etc/resolv.conf right? Jul 16 02:02:34 oh, its working now Jul 16 02:02:40 before it was giving me error code 2 Jul 16 02:02:49 :] Jul 16 02:03:05 It'll still bitch about 404's on the package sigs, but works fine ;P Jul 16 02:03:07 its installing pulse audio! oh noes! hopefully it works better on the moko than on my desktop :P Jul 16 02:03:14 Dave: haha, yeah Jul 16 02:03:17 ;) Jul 16 02:03:30 just paining because for everyone who is too used to update && upgrade Jul 16 02:03:48 the upgrade portion will never execute and some might be bewildered why they're still using outdated shit :P Jul 16 02:05:25 whats a better browser? openmoko-browser2 or minimo? Jul 16 02:05:39 sontek: couldn't figure out how to get minimo to work Jul 16 02:05:50 it wanted to download a crapload of deps from opkg Jul 16 02:05:51 nothing could be worse than omb2? Jul 16 02:05:53 both version Jul 16 02:05:55 s Jul 16 02:06:05 omb2 does work though Jul 16 02:06:19 hm, Slashdot story Jul 16 02:06:25 openmoko-mediaplayer only half works Jul 16 02:06:26 so busy today, didn't notice it Jul 16 02:08:43 * SpeedEvil sighs. Jul 16 02:08:56 * SpeedEvil ponders correcting inaccuracies in slashdot. Jul 16 02:09:05 barely worth it Jul 16 02:09:12 Anyone have a spare 20MT enhanced radiation pulse unit? Jul 16 02:09:29 you could do a proper review, that might be better. Jul 16 02:09:51 I would, but I lack a certain essential item. Jul 16 02:09:54 I haven't seen any inaccurate comments yet Jul 16 02:09:57 heh Jul 16 02:10:24 Is it possible to run with MACHINE = "om-gta02" Jul 16 02:10:27 apart from it actually being the second release, not the first Jul 16 02:10:29 bah Jul 16 02:10:51 MACHINE = "om-gat01,om-gat02" in local.conf to build for both in the Makefile? Jul 16 02:11:39 http://science.slashdot.org/science/08/07/15/1852231.shtml Some people just need to be set on fire to encourage scientific accuracy in others. Jul 16 02:12:00 you need to read Bad Astronomy Jul 16 02:12:24 No, I don't. Jul 16 02:12:32 aye, you might get too angry Jul 16 02:12:32 I've read sci.space.policy for a bit. Jul 16 02:12:59 hah Jul 16 02:13:02 anyway, it's a blog in which he debunks various things Jul 16 02:13:08 Was it as enlightening as science fiction? Jul 16 02:13:10 Chox: I know Jul 16 02:13:20 velly gud Jul 16 02:14:15 people still clueless about the real cost of an iPhone of course Jul 16 02:14:35 Chox: which is less than you think Jul 16 02:14:40 uuuuuhh, iPhone. Jul 16 02:14:40 Chox: $150 IIRC Jul 16 02:14:53 wut, older one on ebay? :p Jul 16 02:14:58 Chox: (to apple, of the hardware) Jul 16 02:15:07 very funny, and clearly now wut I meant Jul 16 02:15:10 New iphone is prolly cheaper than the old one to make. Jul 16 02:15:19 could be Jul 16 02:16:21 Actually - $100 says one source - but that was prior market. Jul 16 02:16:38 My friend just sold his classic iphone on ebay for $510 Jul 16 02:16:53 hah Jul 16 02:18:00 service through tmobile set up in <10min at the store- $49/mo plan and no contract. freedom! Jul 16 02:18:16 * trix goes off to paint half his face blue Jul 16 02:18:23 * SpeedEvil pities trix. Jul 16 02:18:29 heh Jul 16 02:18:40 2 min at t-mobile website, SIM arrives next day for $1 Jul 16 02:18:41 how bout half black and half white Jul 16 02:18:44 (UK) Jul 16 02:18:55 then you could say your a treky Jul 16 02:18:56 $982 for an unlocked 16GB iPhone in Belgium, according to gizmodo Jul 16 02:18:58 No monthly fee, and data for $5/5 days. Jul 16 02:19:09 sounds fishy Jul 16 02:19:29 they told me it would be $20 for the sim but all they charged was a $5 "control charge" Jul 16 02:19:49 though the difference of a day, or a couple days, would be worth the extra money for me to be able to dial calls :) Jul 16 02:20:08 Hmm. Jul 16 02:20:14 Iphone 3G has hammerhead GPS Jul 16 02:20:36 The Hammerhead II integrates an assisted-GPS (A-GPS) baseband processor with a low-noise GPS RF front end and multi-path mitigation to avoid large errors in urban environments. While the die markings indicate it's actually a PMB 2520 Hammerhead I chip, Jul 16 02:20:43 so is there a good wiki page on the flow of the stacks? 2007.2 will be merged into ASU? or ASU is on its own and everyone should be developing for that? Jul 16 02:21:23 http://www.eetimes.com/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=K4QKVKL3WDUL2QSNDLPCKHSCJUNN2JVN?articleID=209000014 Jul 16 02:21:29 Iphone teardown Jul 16 02:21:51 someone earlier compared this all to linux in like 2002... things kinda work, and the potential is definitely there, but the documentation is definitely not there Jul 16 02:22:41 Probably mostly hair. Jul 16 02:22:45 s/h/f/ Jul 16 02:22:46 SpeedEvil meant: Probably mostly fair. Jul 16 02:22:57 lol Jul 16 02:23:33 I don't like either interface 2007.2 or ASU, but if I had to choose, 2007.2 is much better :P Jul 16 02:24:39 2007.2 is to cryptic, a bunch of icons but no text, you can't tell what each thing does Jul 16 02:24:47 and ASU is just weird :P Jul 16 02:24:59 and qtopia is just frustrating Jul 16 02:26:25 SpeedEvil: thanks for posting that link - I didn't know that the iPhone was using the Hammerhead. Jul 16 02:27:01 * Chox oh gawds at FUD in the roughlydrafted "review" Jul 16 02:28:04 :) Jul 16 02:28:05 he really has a stick up his arse Jul 16 02:28:54 * SpeedEvil ponders if the stick is made from apple. Jul 16 02:29:12 I'm curious to see if I can measure any difference in my GTA01's GPS performance with and without the SD-card present Jul 16 02:29:13 think of a candied apple on a stick Jul 16 02:29:30 Chox: where's the review? Jul 16 02:29:38 mmontour: very unlikely IMO Jul 16 02:29:40 http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/08/23/apple-iphone-vs-the-fic-neo1973-openmoko-linux-smartphone/ Jul 16 02:29:43 mmontour: but who knows. Jul 16 02:29:49 hm, it's kinda old though Jul 16 02:29:51 ah, year old or so. Jul 16 02:29:56 never mind :p Jul 16 02:30:09 it was linked from slash comments. slap my hand Jul 16 02:30:36 One guy on the community ML said that the issue affected his GTA01. I'm also skeptical, but it's an interesting possibility. Jul 16 02:31:20 mmontour: simply as much is different - the SD is directly connected to the SoC on 1973, and to the glamo on gta02. And I think the clock stops properly on the GTA01 Jul 16 02:31:58 mmontour: dd a file from/to, and compare signal though I spose. Jul 16 02:32:10 I dunno but it almost seems like the screen is too small for my fat fingers ;) Jul 16 02:32:13 * SpeedEvil realises his 1973 is 20cm from him. Jul 16 02:32:29 and the stylus is not built-in to the phone so it's not very convenient to carry around Jul 16 02:32:32 * SpeedEvil plugs in external antenna in hopes of s signal. Jul 16 02:32:43 yeh Jul 16 02:32:50 fits in the carry case, but only just Jul 16 02:33:16 so whats the gps cause on the freerunner? is it a bus issue with the sd card pushing crap down it regardless? can't find a good description of whats happening on mailing list Jul 16 02:33:39 the wiki should have a good description by now Jul 16 02:33:48 see topic :p Jul 16 02:34:00 GPS is currently affected by a problem when the SD is accessed - it seems to lose or find it very hard to obtain - lock on satellites. There is a patch to turn off the clock to SD when not using it, but accessing SD will still disturb GPS. There is a hardware fix, but how this can be applied to units in the field is unclear at the moment. Jul 16 02:35:42 SpeedEvil: I think it's still worth testing, even if only to have data showing that GTA01 isn't affected. Jul 16 02:36:00 the wiki really only talks about malformed connectors it appears. and when you say turning the clock off to it what exactly do you mean? Jul 16 02:37:02 mmontour: I'm trying now Jul 16 02:37:14 SirBob1701: read the other link in the /topic - to the mailing list post Jul 16 02:37:16 SirBob1701: software thing - turning making the SD not actiuve Jul 16 02:37:24 my gsm signal is 2 bars, but i still have "Registering..." showing. how do i troubleshoot? Jul 16 02:39:16 SpeedEvil: thanks i'll have to look into it more to see if i can contribute anything :D Jul 16 02:40:56 ozzloy: libgsm-tool, I think Jul 16 02:46:14 alright, time to get hacking. who's working on the media player? i think i want to help with that Jul 16 02:48:22 does the media player support audio and video? Jul 16 02:48:25 is it using gstreamer? Jul 16 02:49:01 from what i've seen, gstreamer is used Jul 16 02:49:40 what mapping apps are available to be used with the GPS? Jul 16 02:49:51 cjb: k, thanks Jul 16 02:50:47 cjb: actually not working Jul 16 02:52:16 where is the source hosted? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jul 16 02:59:56 2008