**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 16 02:59:56 2008 Jul 16 03:00:35 Request for future versions: Four microSD slots. ;) (mmooorrr storage..) Preferably ones that don't zot the gps... ;) Jul 16 03:02:49 Oh - I just realised. Jul 16 03:02:51 awk -F'[,\*]' '/^\$GPGSV/{sats=(NF-4)/4,$0;for(x=1;x<=sats;x++){base=(x*4)+1;prn=$base;alt=$(base+1);az=$(base+2);snr=$(base+3);print alt"\t"az"\t"snr"\t"prn;totalsats++;totalsnr+=snr;}}/GPGSV/&&$2==$3{print "ALT\tAZ\tSNR\tPRN\t Average SNR from "totalsats" was "totalsnr/totalsats;totalsnr=totalsats=0}' Jul 16 03:02:54 Might be handy for others. Jul 16 03:03:04 Heh Jul 16 03:03:05 Prints out average sat signal from sats in view Jul 16 03:03:14 You want a RAID array of SDcards, gmaxwell ? Jul 16 03:03:36 * retracile adds 'hot-swappable' to the RAID request Jul 16 03:03:42 Stroller, LVM! ;) Jul 16 03:04:28 lol Jul 16 03:04:39 a 32gig LVM, huh? Jul 16 03:04:51 :P Jul 16 03:04:59 Blimey! My family's first PC had 32k Jul 16 03:05:11 heh but really.. just mount them separately for more storage.. ;) ... well probably 16gb microsd will be cheap by the time that dream comes true.. Jul 16 03:05:16 so 64gig. ;) Jul 16 03:05:48 You know you want a fully self-hosting cell phone... that source code takes a lot of space! Jul 16 03:06:37 any of you get errors from the dialer? Jul 16 03:06:43 on 2007.2? Jul 16 03:08:47 my 2007.2 dialer works great Jul 16 03:08:53 take way too long to compile Jul 16 03:09:08 mmontour: first test - md5sum /dev/zero Jul 16 03:09:36 SpeedEvil, that just hangs Jul 16 03:09:47 :P Jul 16 03:10:09 Well - duh Jul 16 03:11:14 ever try "dd if=/dev/ram of=/tmp/ram && dd if=/tmp/rar of=/dev/ram"? Jul 16 03:11:28 that will give you some very interesting errors Jul 16 03:11:41 programs will get very unhappy, but not all will crash Jul 16 03:11:54 mmontour: /me trys again with non-broken tool Jul 16 03:13:55 good cal Jul 16 03:15:50 :( Jul 16 03:16:18 should get my moko soon ^_^ any recommendations ? Jul 16 03:16:18 keep experiencing a bug that is supposedly fixed months ago Jul 16 03:16:30 can't make or receive calls Jul 16 03:16:38 can anyone? :\ Jul 16 03:16:55 mmontour: playing Depech Mode from media card mp3 - no effect Jul 16 03:16:58 spdr: aparently everyone else can Jul 16 03:18:35 yay, 2007.2 is usable now =) I have qwerty keyboard installed :D :D Jul 16 03:18:37 Gah, I can't wait until July 25th. Jul 16 03:19:11 :P Jul 16 03:19:17 neither can I!?!!? Jul 16 03:19:26 What happens then? Jul 16 03:19:50 It becomes the 25th day in July, of course! Jul 16 03:19:57 mmontour: dd if=/media/card/swapfile of=/dev/zero has no effect either. Jul 16 03:20:06 Speedevil :( Jul 16 03:20:07 heh .. what a surprise! FR works as a phone right out of the box! Jul 16 03:20:09 mmontour: if there is an effect on GTA01 - it's really small. Jul 16 03:20:54 mmontour: sats in view - 6 - have a signal from 32 to 13 - the change - if any is under 1 unit Jul 16 03:21:32 Gah. Jul 16 03:21:37 That's an annoying behaviour. Jul 16 03:21:48 SpeedEvil: OK, good to know. I'm still going to run some tests myself, but it won't be for a while because I have to go to a park to get a decent view of the sky Jul 16 03:21:58 I was developing that script and lost it as the command history is shared between all shells open. Jul 16 03:22:32 Oh - pasted it a while back. Jul 16 03:22:33 * Chox seriously considers going to back to default image from qtopia Jul 16 03:22:37 then updating that Jul 16 03:22:39 Yeah, that sucks. I switch to bash when I'm doing anything where history would be useful Jul 16 03:23:03 since qtopia is basically unusable right now, IME Jul 16 03:23:49 okay.. phone drops if you remove the battery while talking it seems :) Jul 16 03:24:01 imagine that :o Jul 16 03:24:30 well I had it plugged in and the phone stayed running Jul 16 03:25:52 you guys that can make calls - does it take the freerunner a bit to register, or is it almost immediate? Jul 16 03:26:12 mmontour: oh - that was with external antenna - I'll do more tests today with internal. Jul 16 03:26:19 mmontour: with internal I'd have had to get up. Jul 16 03:26:20 AntonTakk: you may need to reseat the SIM Jul 16 03:26:35 Stroller: done that like 7 times today Jul 16 03:26:59 mine registered right away Jul 16 03:27:02 sometimes it helps for the first power on afterwatds - but i still can't make calls Jul 16 03:27:29 I have a fairly new "3g" blue and white AT&T sim. Jul 16 03:28:03 i'm fairly sure my sim is not 3g, since t-mobile doesn't even have a 3g network yet Jul 16 03:28:04 (that I was previously using in a nokia 2610 that I use when not using the moko) Jul 16 03:29:43 mmontour: tests repeated with internal antenna to same results Jul 16 03:29:58 mmontour: Actually - I lie - this time it was Goldie Lookin' Chain. Jul 16 03:30:30 what's the recommended firmware if you want a usable phone? Jul 16 03:30:36 does anyone know what is up with the 3g cards? Jul 16 03:30:44 chillywilly: nokia 1100 Jul 16 03:30:50 i bought one that the wiki said worked, but it is not registering Jul 16 03:31:07 In the section about Un-crippling the 2007.2 image - what is the reduced image missing apart from the clock? Jul 16 03:31:12 well I can actually make and receive calls but the SMS stuff is lacking Jul 16 03:31:17 The clock's annoyingly large & I can do without it Jul 16 03:31:33 Stroller: I think the keyboard got broken Jul 16 03:31:43 Ah! Jul 16 03:31:58 * mmontour googles "Goldie Lookin' Chain"... Jul 16 03:32:53 mmontour: http://youtube.com/watch?v=wAZTLVJSlNw Jul 16 03:32:55 gmaxwell: is your sim the 71234 O 4022, by chance? Jul 16 03:34:21 Sorry - I meant reduced INTERFACE Jul 16 03:35:33 hrm Jul 16 03:36:42 netx: I'll look once I'm off the phone ;) Jul 16 03:36:47 I'm so thrilled that it just works! Jul 16 03:36:56 no hurries ;-) Jul 16 03:37:00 * mmontour saves that URL and waits for a good opportunity to Rickroll someone with it Jul 16 03:37:09 Stroller, the clock is off by default .. no? Jul 16 03:38:44 gmaxwell: yeah, that's right. Then running "dbus-launch gconftool-2 -t boolean -s /desktop/poky/interface/reduced false" turns it on Jul 16 03:38:56 I was wondering what else that command did Jul 16 03:39:08 Oh, it seems to add categories to the + menu Jul 16 03:39:12 gmaxwell: how was the call quality? Jul 16 03:39:16 And that's it as far as I can see Jul 16 03:39:24 elfo: are you the developer of that qwerty keyboard? Jul 16 03:39:28 qtopia or ASU? Jul 16 03:39:35 which one should I try? Jul 16 03:39:38 ;P Jul 16 03:39:50 Does anyone else get "Signature check failed" when running `opkg update`? Jul 16 03:39:55 cjb it's better than the little nokia.. it sounds decent Jul 16 03:39:57 yes Jul 16 03:39:59 Everyone does Jul 16 03:40:05 Good Jul 16 03:40:05 at least four times Jul 16 03:40:07 :P Jul 16 03:40:12 What's the work around, please? Jul 16 03:40:14 gmaxwell: neat. and for the other caller? Jul 16 03:40:16 Stroller: usually means you have no net connectivity at least that is what I have experienced Jul 16 03:40:23 bitch at the fucking opkg maintainers? Jul 16 03:40:57 chillywilly: no, I can download the Packages.gz & ping buildhost.openmoko.org Jul 16 03:41:14 Dave: you can't tell opkg to ignore sigs? Jul 16 03:45:37 nope Jul 16 03:45:39 apparently not Jul 16 03:45:55 That sucks Jul 16 03:46:01 In no convenient manner anyway Jul 16 03:46:04 and yeah it totally does Jul 16 03:46:05 hax it. Jul 16 03:46:20 * mwester wonders why none of the frequent complainers have submitted a patch to fix opkg yet Jul 16 03:46:27 quite Jul 16 03:46:30 yep :D Jul 16 03:46:39 There is an "opkg-nogpg" recipe in bitbake. Presumably that one would ignore signatures, but I haven't tried it Jul 16 03:46:48 * Chox still running through list of things to complain before fixing anything ;-) Jul 16 03:47:03 s/bitbake/OE/ Jul 16 03:47:05 mmontour meant: There is an "opkg-nogpg" recipe in OE. Presumably that one would ignore signatures, but I haven't tried it Jul 16 03:48:54 Well, at leats installing stuff works Jul 16 03:48:58 At least Jul 16 03:49:05 I'll try a later image Jul 16 03:49:09 Maybe tomorrow, tho' Jul 16 03:49:28 reaslistically, I won't be able to do much until next month, when family goes away for 2 weeks Jul 16 03:49:44 and I don't even have a sim for my phone yet Jul 16 03:55:53 i'm looking at the media player, there aren't any icons on the buttons for play/pause etc Jul 16 03:55:56 is that a bug on my phone Jul 16 03:56:02 or are they really just a bunch of squares? Jul 16 03:56:33 check out the getting started guide for a fix Jul 16 03:56:59 # opkg install openmoko-mediaplayer2 Jul 16 03:56:59 # wget http://abraxa.dyndns.org:81/random/openmoko-mediaplayer-theme.tar.bz2 Jul 16 03:56:59 # tar xjf openmoko-mediaplayer-theme.tar.bz2 -C /usr/share/themes/Moko/gtk-2.0 Jul 16 03:56:59 # rm openmoko-mediaplayer-theme.tar.bz2 Jul 16 03:57:49 hm.. it's getting a bit hot. ;) Jul 16 03:58:09 that's cos it's Summer time Jul 16 03:58:16 at least, in NH Jul 16 03:59:26 heh well I've been on the phone for a while.. Jul 16 03:59:35 I think I should be using a headset for this.. Jul 16 03:59:38 Chox: you are a genius :) thats a much better theme Jul 16 04:00:01 only inasmuch as I read :p Jul 16 04:00:12 Chox: do you know how to remove songs out of a playlist? Jul 16 04:00:20 hah. no. Jul 16 04:00:37 reflash rootfs Jul 16 04:00:44 pff Jul 16 04:00:51 ssh in and delete the appropriate files Jul 16 04:01:26 woo.. did a half hour call with no problems Jul 16 04:01:33 so Blackberry takes 3 mins to boot? geez. Jul 16 04:01:47 that's worse than my FR :p Jul 16 04:01:57 chox: if it's a cold (battery out) boot yea.. my bberry takes around 3minutes Jul 16 04:02:01 btw.. yahoo-customers.. kick your admins into the nuts. its their fault you do not get mail from om-lists atm Jul 16 04:02:42 Who wanted to know about my working AT&T sim? Jul 16 04:03:08 well I hope I am not breaking this phone...I am running an 'opkg upgrade' Jul 16 04:03:11 ;P Jul 16 04:03:15 eh.. my ipod touch takes about that long to boot up too Jul 16 04:03:16 anyone know what version of 2007.2 the freerunner ships with? Jul 16 04:03:18 from cold Jul 16 04:03:30 maybe i shouldn't have flashed to the latest recommended Jul 16 04:03:40 chillywilly: first do: opkg install dropbear >/dev/null 2>&1 Jul 16 04:03:55 k but that's already running Jul 16 04:04:03 why would I need ot install it again? Jul 16 04:04:06 has anyone used the asu image? Jul 16 04:04:08 you'll see Jul 16 04:04:09 chillywilly: i tried that once, had to re-flash to get the phone to boot afterwards Jul 16 04:04:25 right, installed the latest GTK image. hmmm. Jul 16 04:04:52 RE my working AT&T sim. It's blue and white with an orange 3G, and it sats at&t with the deathstar and a number 89014 ... and the back is blue with a 3G and a number ending in 3022 Jul 16 04:05:15 bit more sensible than the default one. and more usable than qtopia Jul 16 04:05:29 my AT&T SIM also works Jul 16 04:05:45 guess I should add mine to the wiki Jul 16 04:05:46 the one I have "works", but it's data only plan Jul 16 04:06:03 where's the link to asu? Jul 16 04:06:27 whats more usable than qtopia? Jul 16 04:06:46 too many firmwares... Jul 16 04:07:13 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080715/Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080715-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 Jul 16 04:07:14 oh, great Jul 16 04:07:22 is what I grabbed Jul 16 04:08:15 ...... Jul 16 04:08:17 hrm Jul 16 04:08:45 there for a sec any time I plugged my fr in to usb all it did was make a very rappid, very quiet ticking Jul 16 04:09:22 Then it exploded with the force of a thousand suns, warping you horribly, and giving you the power of flight? Jul 16 04:09:32 no Jul 16 04:09:42 Well, that's what's meant to happen. Jul 16 04:10:02 i tried putting the battery back in again and the ticking went away and the thing finally booted again Jul 16 04:10:37 guess i'll try flashing the latest image again Jul 16 04:10:42 maybe it'll work Jul 16 04:10:49 er, latest recommended Jul 16 04:11:06 which image are people running? Jul 16 04:11:17 Everything Jul 16 04:11:32 Dave has enough phones to do that Jul 16 04:11:46 ASU?, qtopia?, daily build? Jul 16 04:13:07 right now, openmoko-devel-image-om-gta02.jffs2 Jul 16 04:13:29 qtopia Jul 16 04:13:29 I tried Qtopia and plan to put it on an SD for a 2nd boot option Jul 16 04:13:31 True Jul 16 04:13:33 the one I showed above :p Jul 16 04:13:35 I am, as well :) Jul 16 04:14:10 The image the FR shipped with works as a phone! so I'm going to use that one for a while. Jul 16 04:14:34 Not a huge fan of ASU at the moment... it's pretty, but feels too "glitchy" for my tastes... I'm sure it'll be cleared up in a few weeks though Jul 16 04:14:45 it is working for me also but the SMS app leaves much to be desired Jul 16 04:14:57 Does anything have a version of network manager that works from the phone yet? Jul 16 04:15:12 chillywilly: Qtopia has an SMS app, you might want to try it out to see if you like it better Jul 16 04:15:12 chihchun, I haven't tested the sms.. does it work at all? Jul 16 04:15:21 how do I add a boot parameter to the boot process (on QEMU)? Jul 16 04:15:24 Lala. Jul 16 04:15:33 gmaxwell: you mean for Wifi? Jul 16 04:15:42 sitwon, yes, for wifi Jul 16 04:16:06 sitwon: does the phone work? Jul 16 04:16:10 sitwon, not exactly exciting to try to edit a wpasupplicant config just to get on a hotspot ;) Jul 16 04:16:12 gmaxwell: I just ported a python script I wrote to manage wifi on my Slackware Laptop ages ago Jul 16 04:16:54 chillywilly: the om2007.2 and Qtopia images are usable as a basic phone Jul 16 04:17:10 sitwon, Like this? http://xkcd.com/416/ Jul 16 04:17:10 where's the opkg config file and what lines should be in it? Jul 16 04:17:31 sitwon: qtopia - you mean asu, or the actual pure qtopia image? Jul 16 04:18:06 AntonTakk1: the actual Qtopia image Jul 16 04:18:12 gmaxwell: haha, something like that Jul 16 04:18:27 gmaxwell: I'm hoping to get kismet on my FR soon Jul 16 04:18:43 sitwon, I used to use kismet on my OpenZaurus long ago Jul 16 04:19:07 gmaxwell: thanks for the sim info, i was busy working on my moko so i lost track of irc Jul 16 04:19:07 gmaxwell: Once I get kismet on my FR, I can stop lugging around my N770 Jul 16 04:19:29 netx: Actually I had the wrong first couple of digits Jul 16 04:19:45 I upgraded/installed dropbear first but everytime I run 'opkg upgrade' the ssh connection is dropped Jul 16 04:19:54 netx, http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Carriers%2FATT&diff=40404&oldid=40125 Jul 16 04:21:19 sitwon: the wifi chip doesn't support that. Jul 16 04:21:23 looks like it is some X package that is killing the connection Jul 16 04:22:48 SpeedEvil: no monitor mode? Jul 16 04:22:50 sitwon: let me guess -- you ALSO are one of the many, many professional network penetration testers who have selected the freerunner to perform to add to their toolkit. Jul 16 04:23:21 'professional network penetration testers' Jul 16 04:23:32 Wonder how many FRs I'll see at HOPE this week? Jul 16 04:23:34 Well, that's what they claim. Jul 16 04:23:37 mwester: I'm not a pentester, I just troubleshoot a lot of wireless installs Jul 16 04:23:51 gmaxwell: mine will be one of them Jul 16 04:24:36 mwester: one of my companies develops linux-based wireless appliances Jul 16 04:24:37 I just never knew just how many of those folks there are about; it boggles one's mind to think that there are ANY insecure networks left with so many of these completely legitimate security testers about. Jul 16 04:25:24 hey, I'm not saying I don't hack networks and/or steal wifi form time to time... I'm just saying that pentesting (legit or not) is not my primary usage of kismet Jul 16 04:25:27 Sure is comforting. Kinda like those nice people who go about rattling your hotel room door at 3AM, just to make sure that you're protected and safe in your room. So kind of them. Jul 16 04:25:29 gmaxwell: you will see at least one in addition to yours; of course, hopefully mine will be working by then ;-) Jul 16 04:26:09 hey, are any of you guys staying at the Penn? Jul 16 04:26:46 netx: I kinda got lucky on the sim.. I had an OLD cingular phone for eons.. whos sim worked in the GTA01. .. and I lost it three weeks ago, so I got the cheapest non-contract phone from AT&T that I could (nokia 2960 ~$30) with the hopes that getting something inexpensive would increase the chances of the sim working. Jul 16 04:27:47 mwester, SpeedEvil: does the chip not support Monitor mode? Jul 16 04:27:53 sitwon: no Jul 16 04:27:59 sitwon: well - the firmware not Jul 16 04:28:13 really? ... whats in it? Jul 16 04:28:24 so it's possible that it could, just not implemented? Jul 16 04:28:41 currently not. we would know Jul 16 04:29:22 *shrugs* well not like the N770 really weighs me down... Jul 16 04:29:26 its hardmac. Jul 16 04:30:04 hardmac? Jul 16 04:30:05 sitwon: But it's not really a problem; you have the USB -- use a wifi dongle. After all, since the use is completely LEGIT, there's clearly no need to worry about a few extra wires dangling about, right? Jul 16 04:30:10 roh: you mean firmware in ROM? Jul 16 04:30:34 besides.. external wifi means you can connect a gain antenna Jul 16 04:30:37 Why do I still get 404 errors when I do an opkg update? :| Jul 16 04:30:48 roh: or just undocumented firmware supplied as blob? Jul 16 04:31:39 mwester: that's true, I've just never found a USB adapter with very good Linux support. (been unlucky with a few tries) Jul 16 04:31:52 gmaxwell: :D Sure! Just make sure that when you point that antenna at Big Bubba's house, you have your official "Network Penetration Tester" membership badge to show him when he comes out to check out what you're pointing at his house! Jul 16 04:32:05 heh. Jul 16 04:32:20 Well fortunately, all my activity is legit and on the up and up. Jul 16 04:32:34 are there any plans for a GTA03 ? Jul 16 04:32:34 hmmm Jul 16 04:32:40 the notion of a FR connected to a 24dB gain parabolic grid antenna makes me giggle. Jul 16 04:32:51 It's not been FCC approved either Jul 16 04:32:58 what files would I need from here if I want to install the latest freerunner images --> http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080715/ ? Jul 16 04:33:06 (which only matters if you use it in the US, of course) Jul 16 04:33:25 gmaxwell: Oooh... parabolic dish antenna Jul 16 04:34:07 mwester, fcc regs so widely ignored in 2.4ghz ism.. :( Jul 16 04:34:48 much to everyone detriment... twits building p2p links using omni antennas and 1w amps.. on devices with cruddy spurrious emissions Jul 16 04:34:52 Yeah. But not that big a deal in the first place; it's shared with microwave ovens. Jul 16 04:35:20 If the twits were to move to the 5GHz band, that might be worrisome. Jul 16 04:35:28 and microwave radar :) Jul 16 04:36:01 microwave ovens aren't usually an enormous problem outdoors in my experience. Jul 16 04:36:57 gmaxwell: my experience with microwave ovens outdors says that them being a problem is directly related to weather or not they have reached escape velocity :) Jul 16 04:37:07 hehe Jul 16 04:37:31 what's the difference between ther jffs2 images that have "devel" in the name and the ones that have qtopia-x11? Jul 16 04:37:43 the images here -> http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080715/ Jul 16 04:37:45 ok, it's coming up saying t-mobile right off the bat Jul 16 04:37:50 the FSO image does not have contact management yet....right? Jul 16 04:38:00 but has a ? right next to the gsm antenna icon Jul 16 04:38:03 devel is the 2007.2 aka "gtk" image, qtopia-x11 is the asu image. Jul 16 04:38:12 ok Jul 16 04:38:25 MadTBone: the fso image has nothing but a dialer. It's naked. Jul 16 04:38:42 takes it maybe a couple minutes to pop up the message that it has registered Jul 16 04:38:43 mwester: that's what I thought. thanks Jul 16 04:39:23 which kernel image should be used with this -> http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080715/Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080715-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 ? Jul 16 04:40:18 wooohooo Jul 16 04:40:25 I got an expensive flash light Jul 16 04:40:37 goodwill: eh? Jul 16 04:40:54 a freerunner Jul 16 04:41:05 not working, or? Jul 16 04:41:24 works great Jul 16 04:41:28 but I have no sim card Jul 16 04:41:34 ah Jul 16 04:41:35 plus the default image is bare Jul 16 04:41:46 so at this moment its a flashlight Jul 16 04:41:51 so it's really more like an expensive pda :) Jul 16 04:41:51 wow it's dead in here! Jul 16 04:41:52 goodwill: It runs linux Jul 16 04:42:01 That's better than most flashlights Jul 16 04:42:02 mwester: so...true Jul 16 04:42:08 smart flashlight? Jul 16 04:42:16 Most flashlights run Windows. Jul 16 04:42:22 hahaha Jul 16 04:42:27 so is anyone with an AT&T contract able to use their SIM in the FR? Jul 16 04:42:35 mwester: I would not say tehy run it...they suffer I think Jul 16 04:42:47 swc|666: we had peopel in meeting who could Jul 16 04:42:50 swc|666: Mine works. Reregisters all the time, but it works. Jul 16 04:43:01 mwester: how can that be? i have never had a flash light not work for aparently no reason, or turn off w/o reason Jul 16 04:43:02 Can anyone answer a question about how to get a 3G data card working in linux ? Jul 16 04:43:07 a non 3g chip, right? Jul 16 04:43:10 or had the light turn blue Jul 16 04:43:16 :) Jul 16 04:43:19 which kernel image should be used with this -> http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080715/Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080715-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 ? Jul 16 04:43:28 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080715/uImage-om-gta02-latest.bin ? Jul 16 04:43:34 chillywilly: They are all equally bad on that image Jul 16 04:43:43 uh? Jul 16 04:43:51 That kernel will do as well as any. Jul 16 04:44:11 The ASU image is the least stable of all the images. Jul 16 04:44:18 gah Jul 16 04:44:20 swc|666: the advice was to go to at&t shop and tell them you have an unlocked phone and get them to give you a new sim Jul 16 04:44:37 phone registers now, a bit slowly, but w/e, still get error from the dialer thou Jul 16 04:44:38 the .bin images for u-boot are bootloader updates? Jul 16 04:44:52 goodwill: AT&T told me i'd have to find the chip myself and they would activate for me Jul 16 04:44:52 chillywilly: uImage*.bin is the kernel Jul 16 04:45:02 3G cards anyone? Jul 16 04:45:18 mwester: do u happen to know the SKU# and version of your chip? Jul 16 04:45:22 sim* Jul 16 04:45:37 anyone got the wifi working with WEP? Jul 16 04:45:38 Failed to set encryption. Jul 16 04:45:38 ioctl[PRISM2_IOCTL_HOSTAPD]: Operation not supported Jul 16 04:45:47 mwester: what about u-boot*.bin? what is that? Jul 16 04:46:21 chillywilly: u-boot*bin is the bootloader. Jul 16 04:46:31 mwester: so can you update that as well? Jul 16 04:46:46 swc|666: 73000 is the SKU Jul 16 04:46:51 chillywilly: Yes Jul 16 04:47:12 nadio: Yes, that's a 3G SIM too. :) Jul 16 04:47:34 mwester: ? Please explain what you mean ? Jul 16 04:47:42 mwester: so do you think I should go with the gtk snapshot or the ASU snapshot? Jul 16 04:47:46 I am looking for someone that have setup a 3G data card in linux Jul 16 04:47:50 swc|666: have you checked out: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT? I have a 71234 SKu and it doesn't work with the FR Jul 16 04:47:57 nadio: you were asking about a 3G SIM card, no? Jul 16 04:48:07 mwester: No, more of the device it self. Jul 16 04:48:29 You mean SD card? Jul 16 04:48:46 mwester: No, USB, 3G data card. Jul 16 04:48:56 Nope, sorry. Jul 16 04:48:56 swc|666: I can use my AT&T SIM in the FR Jul 16 04:49:02 Can't upgrade my FR though Jul 16 04:49:41 btw what does freerunner cost in US and in EU ? Jul 16 04:49:50 I have neither of the cards ive gotten from AT&T work >.< Jul 16 04:50:30 and both are on the bad list on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT Jul 16 04:50:41 mwester: thanx ...sandman_: yeah i have one that is listed as working too, but nogo Jul 16 04:50:48 tessier: really? Jul 16 04:51:10 swc|666: Yes Jul 16 04:51:38 well i just found an old sim at home that i had from my olllllllld phone in germany.. Jul 16 04:51:49 listed as working Jul 16 04:52:09 but i doubt if i can get it activated for at&t Jul 16 04:52:11 what are the lowlevel*.bin files and what's with the gta02vX versions? Jul 16 04:53:17 lowlevel.bin are used with the debug board. They perform low-level initialization so that a u-boot image can be loaded into RAM over JTAG. Jul 16 04:54:02 swc|666: that sucks that some of the listed ones are not working. I was planning on buying a new SIM based on that list. Jul 16 04:54:05 ok, so you need a debug board in order to upodate th bootloader? Jul 16 04:54:10 update* Jul 16 04:54:40 sandman_: me too... maybe i'll try to find the same one that mwester has Jul 16 04:54:44 No, if you already have a working u-boot you can update it with dfu-util. On Freerunner you do need a debug board to update the copy of the bootloader in the NOR flash Jul 16 04:54:57 hm, still no GPS outside with SD removed Jul 16 04:55:37 mmontour: ok, are there different version of the gta02 and if so how do I know which one I have? Jul 16 04:55:58 There's a line in /proc/cpuinfo that shows which board revision you have Jul 16 04:56:26 ok Jul 16 04:57:29 my understanding is that the phone functionality of the fso image is very reliable - is that true? Jul 16 04:57:36 is there a way to change the ringtone for sms and calls? Jul 16 04:59:09 lame.. so yea.. doesn't seem that wep works. wpa does. Jul 16 04:59:41 gmaxwell, you got WPA working with a FR? Jul 16 04:59:54 it appears to be working Jul 16 05:00:27 gmaxwell, did you use the wpa_supplicant.conf example from the wiki? I tried that and wasn't able to get WPA working Jul 16 05:01:12 so what board is Revision : 0350 ? Jul 16 05:01:30 v5 Jul 16 05:01:58 walrustown, pretty boring config with pairwise=TKIP on both my ap system and the FR Jul 16 05:02:41 gmaxwell, ok thanks, I'll try again. I probably just did something silly Jul 16 05:04:15 chillywilly, type this to get the board revisions "libgsmd-tool -m shell" then type "rv" ... give it a few seconds, it'll give you the revision Jul 16 05:04:18 type "q" to quit Jul 16 05:04:30 mine reports revision: "HW: GTA02BV5, GSM: gsm_ac_gp_fd_pu_em_cph_ds_vc_cal35_ri_36_amd8_ts0-Moko8" Jul 16 05:05:01 has anyone in here tried doing openmoko development with debian? Jul 16 05:05:13 I can't find a version of the libmokoui2 package that will work with debian etch Jul 16 05:07:03 * AntonTakk1 flashes the fso image Jul 16 05:07:27 AntonTakk1: hows the fso image look/feel? I've tried ASU and 2007.2 so far, 2007.2 is my fav Jul 16 05:07:51 sontek: will let you know when it finishes flashing Jul 16 05:08:13 i can't even get 2007.2 to do voice calls Jul 16 05:09:00 my 2007.2 has wireless, sms, calls, calendar, tasks, media player, etc Jul 16 05:09:02 its great Jul 16 05:09:14 I hate the SMS interface and can't figure out how to change ringtones Jul 16 05:09:17 but overall i'm impressed Jul 16 05:09:35 i know, been using it, but i keep experiencing a bug that the trac says has been fixed for like 6 months :( Jul 16 05:10:12 any time I try to make a call i get the same error Jul 16 05:10:23 and imcoming calls go straight to voice mail Jul 16 05:11:29 sontek: what 2007.2 image are you using? Jul 16 05:11:46 maybe i just need a more recent image Jul 16 05:11:56 AntonTakk1: the one from today Jul 16 05:12:07 been using latest recommended Jul 16 05:12:09 ah Jul 16 05:12:21 did you try making calls before flashing? Jul 16 05:12:44 yeah, it worked Jul 16 05:12:47 wireless did not though Jul 16 05:12:50 thats why I flased Jul 16 05:12:52 gmaxwell, what version of the 2007.2 image are you using? I'm using the recommended version, maybe that's my prob Jul 16 05:12:52 flashed* Jul 16 05:13:05 god.. i can't flash my device on mac wihout either building the crap out of stuff or running on my linux side.. but how can i watch my itunes at the same time i code? Jul 16 05:13:07 walrustown, I'm using what came on the phone :) Jul 16 05:13:07 arrg Jul 16 05:13:26 gmaxwell, ok, thanks Jul 16 05:14:16 flashing kernel.... Jul 16 05:14:18 weeeee Jul 16 05:14:26 toilet -> Jul 16 05:14:46 2007.2 does not like it if you restart gsmd Jul 16 05:14:59 ah, flash is done, booting :) Jul 16 05:15:20 flashing daily build of devel gtk image... :P Jul 16 05:16:03 chillywilly: i haven't been able to find those, can you link? Jul 16 05:16:13 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080715/ Jul 16 05:17:10 takes a while to do the rootfs Jul 16 05:19:06 which image is the FSO one? Jul 16 05:19:52 http://downloads.openmoko.org/framework/milestone1/ Jul 16 05:20:00 that one I believe Jul 16 05:21:00 the hybrid image is not out yet, right? Jul 16 05:21:17 so was there a solution for a smaller clock? Jul 16 05:21:20 fso can make calls, but there seems to be no audio Jul 16 05:21:33 and does not seem to receive calls Jul 16 05:21:44 chillywilly: today's image is the best I've tried.. Jul 16 05:21:55 sontek: do i just need the rootfs image? Jul 16 05:21:59 shpedoikal: erm, which one? Jul 16 05:22:03 AntonTakk1: I updated kernel as well Jul 16 05:22:05 for the 2007.2 daily? Jul 16 05:22:09 ok Jul 16 05:22:11 shpedoikal: the gtk devel one or the qtopia/asu? Jul 16 05:22:13 aye Jul 16 05:22:19 also best I've tried. Jul 16 05:22:22 GTK Jul 16 05:22:25 ok Jul 16 05:22:37 can I use mp3s/oggs as ringtones? Jul 16 05:22:38 I am flashing it right now Jul 16 05:22:41 chillywilly: Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080715-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 Jul 16 05:22:47 the AGPS Test app says 'press START to begin GPS' yet i dont see a start button. any ideas? Jul 16 05:22:51 i'm looking at /etc/pulse/session and everything is .wav Jul 16 05:22:51 sontek: ok, only nervous about flashing uboot, kernel and rootfs can be re-flashed easily :) Jul 16 05:22:55 danielb@frodo:~/bin/om-firmware$ sudo ../dfu-util -a rootfs -R -D Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080715-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 Jul 16 05:22:58 ;P Jul 16 05:23:10 donomo: Push power Jul 16 05:23:34 shpedoikal: is the SMS application better now? Jul 16 05:23:45 6 Jul 16 05:23:48 in theory a freerunner should have no problem flashing another freerunner over usb, right? Jul 16 05:23:50 5 Jul 16 05:23:53 uboot can be flashed safely too Jul 16 05:23:59 4 Jul 16 05:24:08 doit Jul 16 05:24:09 chillywilly: haven't tried that :-) but this is the first working media player I've seen Jul 16 05:24:09 shpedoikal: cause I couldn't tell which server was paging me from nagios ;P Jul 16 05:24:11 3 Jul 16 05:24:14 NOR flash can be used to recover bad NAND Jul 16 05:24:50 NOR is the "oh crap I h0rked up the NAND u-boot" fall back ;) Jul 16 05:24:58 right? Jul 16 05:25:15 pretty much Jul 16 05:25:28 only way to fsck up NOR is w/ the debug board Jul 16 05:25:37 I have one of those :) Jul 16 05:25:45 but then, you can use the debug board to unbrick anyways, so... Jul 16 05:26:06 clear Jul 16 05:26:09 oops Jul 16 05:26:15 command not found Jul 16 05:26:25 rtm: power makes the app quit :( Jul 16 05:26:45 donomo: Have you installed gpsd? Jul 16 05:26:48 so am I flashing to the NAND flash right now? Jul 16 05:26:52 after I change /etc/pulse/session do I have to restart anything? Jul 16 05:27:20 switching back to runtime mode Jul 16 05:27:26 chillywilly: should be... assuming you're just running dfu-util and just plugged in via usb Jul 16 05:27:36 not sure what you have to do offhand to flash NOR Jul 16 05:27:36 booting :) Jul 16 05:28:02 rtm: ps ax|grep gpsd -> gpsd /dev/ttySAC1 Jul 16 05:28:08 hah, a pair of boots... Jul 16 05:28:12 :) Jul 16 05:28:18 yup Jul 16 05:28:28 donomo: THen I'm afraid I don't know what the problem is. Jul 16 05:28:34 rtm: k. thx anyways Jul 16 05:28:47 anybody here using a cingular/at&t sim in their freerunner? Jul 16 05:28:59 budfive: tmobile here Jul 16 05:29:01 donomo: Did you try turning on the GPS with the power button? Jul 16 05:29:06 budfive: I am Jul 16 05:29:23 I could make and receive calls with 2007.2 Jul 16 05:29:25 donomo: you could try opkg install gps-utils ; gpspipe -r 127.0.0.1 2972 (i think thats the correct port, theres info on doing that via the wiki...) Jul 16 05:29:37 that'll get you nmea info coming in through the gps Jul 16 05:29:55 rtm: heyy. it was off. tried agps-test again. i hit power. the app exits Jul 16 05:30:05 nullpuppy: cool i'll try it Jul 16 05:30:17 * AntonTakk1 hopes the latest gtk image works for calls for him Jul 16 05:30:26 do you have one of the "supported" sims from the wiki? Jul 16 05:30:37 donomo: Oh, I thought you were using openmoko-agpsui . Jul 16 05:30:48 i used the 07/15 daily today. works well for the most part. making and recieving calls worked well. Jul 16 05:30:49 rtm: i am Jul 16 05:30:49 the los angeles group order got their freerunners today. At least half of the people there had sims that didn't work Jul 16 05:30:50 it doesn't have any data on non-pre-paid tmobile Jul 16 05:31:18 anyone know if the external buttons are supposed to light up? Jul 16 05:31:23 AntonTakk1: what doesn't have data on non-pre-paid tmobile? Jul 16 05:31:32 * nullpuppy has tmobile thats not prepaid Jul 16 05:31:42 I have t-mobile Jul 16 05:31:45 the clock is kind of ugly Jul 16 05:31:47 nullpuppy: gpspipe -r by it self is happily spewing out NMEA data. woot. Jul 16 05:31:53 nullpuppy: the supported sims list on the wiki Jul 16 05:31:56 donomo: woot, awesome ;) Jul 16 05:31:57 its very ugly, and I prefer 12 hour instead of 24 hour Jul 16 05:32:04 AntonTakk1: ah, i'll shall update taht then Jul 16 05:32:09 2op "You could try loggin in via the USB network, and running openmoko-agpsui interactively, to see if any error message is emitted when the program terminates. Jul 16 05:32:13 can I make it smaller? Jul 16 05:32:28 nullpuppy: though none of the data looks like a lat/long. heh Jul 16 05:32:46 donomo: :( yeah, i got lots of crap like taht too. Jul 16 05:32:53 couldn't get a fix. Jul 16 05:33:16 i did disassemble it today though and reseated the gps antennae, the jack thingy itself looked fine. Jul 16 05:33:38 nullpuppy: i would assume so, i was able to nicely make a call twice, and i can do it ugly by keep hitting the dial button - thou it gives errors istead of indication of dialing Jul 16 05:33:46 and it registers with tmobile Jul 16 05:34:22 anyways, i just hope this image works for me Jul 16 05:34:28 :) Jul 16 05:34:29 me too Jul 16 05:34:40 i'm downloading fso right now to give it a shot. Jul 16 05:34:49 i would be extreemly happy at this point with contacts and reliable voice calls Jul 16 05:35:06 i do have one wierd issue poping up though, and this has happened with every package i've used, in that not all my sim contacts show up Jul 16 05:35:12 fso made the call for me - gave no indication thou Jul 16 05:35:12 yeah Jul 16 05:35:15 nullpuppy: are there docs for getting fso on a microSD card and can it boot right from the microSD card? Jul 16 05:35:37 but it had no audio Jul 16 05:35:48 donomo: no idea :( . i'm sure it can boot from the sd-card, not sure what you need to do offhand though Jul 16 05:36:01 i think it involves using the tar.bz2 images and copying stuff to it though Jul 16 05:36:07 hmm Jul 16 05:36:11 AntonTakk1: sad :( Jul 16 05:36:19 very Jul 16 05:36:19 nullpuppy: that would be ideal to have a uboot option for 2007.2/ASU/FSO Jul 16 05:36:40 * nullpuppy nods Jul 16 05:36:51 you could probably do 2 without a problem, 3 i dunno Jul 16 05:37:43 is there a way to exit out of an app without hitting the power button? Jul 16 05:37:51 that seems to close the application Jul 16 05:37:57 chillywilly: 2007.2? Jul 16 05:38:00 oh yea Jul 16 05:38:05 use the menu in the upper left Jul 16 05:38:08 nevermind Jul 16 05:38:23 I have the latest snapshot Jul 16 05:38:24 go to the third tab at the bottom - the gears, highlight the app, and hit the trash can Jul 16 05:38:42 that goes away when you are in some application usually Jul 16 05:38:43 oh Jul 16 05:38:58 you wanted to minimize it :) Jul 16 05:40:05 right Jul 16 05:40:16 it seems the keypad is a little hokey Jul 16 05:40:39 hitting uppercase letters and it writes out lowercase Jul 16 05:40:45 anyways, other than not working for me, the fso image looked nice Jul 16 05:41:25 well that's annoying Jul 16 05:41:30 anyone have a preferred belt clip case for the freerunner? Jul 16 05:41:40 hm, all I *need* is the fso jffs2 file right? Jul 16 05:41:47 uImage/etc isn't needed? Jul 16 05:42:21 arg, the kaypad is acting wonky Jul 16 05:42:30 nullpuppy: the boot for the fso uimage looked way different to me, might want to flash it just cause Jul 16 05:42:38 and it's tiny anyways Jul 16 05:42:47 er Jul 16 05:42:48 * nullpuppy nods Jul 16 05:42:50 the uimage Jul 16 05:43:03 i suppose its not a bad idea. can always reflash to yesterdays/todays daily build Jul 16 05:43:19 exactly :) Jul 16 05:43:30 no one else is experiencing screwy keypad behavior? Jul 16 05:43:31 and is there ever a reason to the grab the modules? Jul 16 05:43:41 i keep seeing the package there... Jul 16 05:43:44 nullpuppy: none I know of Jul 16 05:43:54 holy crap, GPS started working Jul 16 05:44:03 Chox: woot! Jul 16 05:44:07 how long did it take? Jul 16 05:44:10 no idea Jul 16 05:44:11 and were you outside? Jul 16 05:44:19 just started tangoGPS and there it was Jul 16 05:44:22 * Chox wuz inside Jul 16 05:44:26 Chox: woot Jul 16 05:44:29 had tried earlier, but hm. Jul 16 05:44:29 guess it was my fat fingers Jul 16 05:44:41 wish this thing had a built-in stylus Jul 16 05:45:12 the hope is to get the software so it doesn't need a stylus Jul 16 05:45:16 chillywilly: hehe, yeah, me too Jul 16 05:45:25 there needs to be a stylus holder in the damn shell Jul 16 05:45:25 hey, after I change a ringtone in /etc/pulse/session, what do I need to reboot to be able to use the new ringtone? Jul 16 05:45:29 that being said, i bought one of those invisibleshield things so that i can use pencils and such as a stylus, hehe Jul 16 05:45:36 hehe Jul 16 05:45:38 I don't wnat to restart the phone everytime I change ringtones :P Jul 16 05:45:44 hmmm my phone has ceased to register with the latest daily snapshot of the 2007.2 image \= Jul 16 05:45:46 where can you get the invisible shields? i need one Jul 16 05:45:55 zagg.com Jul 16 05:45:57 I don't want to pay everytime I change ringtones :p Jul 16 05:46:02 wrote on my screen earlier with the wrong part of my stylus laser pen :( Jul 16 05:46:03 bounce the service Jul 16 05:46:12 search the mailing list, there's a coupon for 20% off a zagg.com invisibleshield Jul 16 05:46:19 the daily builds stop for a long time at about 59% booted for anyone else? Jul 16 05:46:23 ah, there it went Jul 16 05:46:25 :) Jul 16 05:46:26 ieatlint: ooh, awesome Jul 16 05:46:35 I made my own ringtone, I just need to be able to test it without restarting the phone Jul 16 05:46:42 it doesn't get the change just from modifying that file Jul 16 05:46:43 is like "pcworld20" i think ... you enter it at checkout Jul 16 05:46:45 AntonTakk1: worked fine for me. just atkes for freaking ever Jul 16 05:46:50 kk Jul 16 05:46:59 restart pulse audio? Jul 16 05:46:59 AntonTakk1: That's normal on the first boot after a reflash. Jul 16 05:47:15 turns out i hit bug 666 Jul 16 05:47:16 battery icon does not always change like it should Jul 16 05:47:23 i saw a nifty stylus link on the wiki Jul 16 05:47:24 t-mobile sim card works fine Jul 16 05:47:30 i made a phone call! Jul 16 05:47:34 kd8ikt: where? Jul 16 05:48:07 http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Stylus_Alternatives Jul 16 05:48:17 hmm....just flashed with asu.... trying to boot... getting pages upon pages of "Magic bitmask 0x1985 not found at 0X00000000" .... I assume that this isn't good Jul 16 05:48:28 you can get finger stylus thingies Jul 16 05:48:41 roommates have them for their ds's Jul 16 05:48:44 yeah they seem to be everywhere Jul 16 05:48:44 enough! Jul 16 05:48:49 takes a long time for the battery indicator to switch states Jul 16 05:48:54 chillywilly: I tried /etc/init.d/pulseaudio restart but then I have no sound :) Jul 16 05:49:06 pass start? Jul 16 05:49:06 can prolly make one out of about anything Jul 16 05:49:23 and the ones they have aren;t the ones on the wiki :) Jul 16 05:49:26 sontek, now restart alsa? Jul 16 05:49:27 * nullpuppy looks for an image Jul 16 05:49:31 just dont use a metal needle Jul 16 05:50:52 ieatlint: /etc/init.d/alsa-start restart ? Jul 16 05:51:00 well you'd think they could issue a new bottom cover with a slot for a stylus since the thing just pops right off Jul 16 05:51:05 ieatlint: after doing those, now when I open media player I get 'gstreamer error: resource not found' Jul 16 05:51:06 http://www.amazon.com/Nintendo-Finger-Tip-Stylus-Pack/dp/B0007XS250/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1216187432&sr=8-2 Jul 16 05:51:17 that looks pretty close Jul 16 05:51:20 or maybe its complaining about a file Jul 16 05:51:52 MadTBone: check that you used the right version of the image (gta01 or gta02) Jul 16 05:52:19 ieatlint: yeah, 'gstreamer error: you do not have a decoder installed to handle htis file' Jul 16 05:52:35 oh, weird Jul 16 05:52:39 it can't play my .wav files Jul 16 05:53:07 noooo :( same error as on recommended 2007.2 image :( Jul 16 05:53:16 It says it needs a wav decoder to play the file Jul 16 05:53:21 but the current ringtones are wavs Jul 16 05:53:57 mmontour: it's the right version. I didn't flash the tar.gz though ... only the jffs2 Jul 16 05:53:58 isnt the stylus that comes with it like a laser aswell? Jul 16 05:54:05 I have no idea what its trying to do then, I gave it a wav and it can't play it as a ringtone Jul 16 05:54:06 or pen Jul 16 05:54:12 so I tried giving it an mp3 and it can't do that either Jul 16 05:54:23 kd8ikt: its a laser, led, and pen Jul 16 05:54:30 kd8ikt: its pretty silly Jul 16 05:54:31 thats sooo pimp Jul 16 05:54:38 heh Jul 16 05:54:45 a bit overkill though Jul 16 05:54:47 mmontour: is there a method to force a reset? Jul 16 05:54:53 yeah, its pretty awesome. too top heavy though Jul 16 05:55:13 Disconnect power and remove the battery Jul 16 05:55:34 swap the laser with a high speed dvd burners laser to light cigarettes Jul 16 05:55:47 and burn people Jul 16 05:56:01 the .tar.gz file is only needed if you're putting the rootfs onto the SD card Jul 16 05:56:21 where else could it go? Jul 16 05:56:39 great post on the 3 different stacks 2007.2/ASU/FSO: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ Jul 16 05:56:49 kd8ikt: haha, excellent idea Jul 16 05:57:08 get the attention of that hoty across the room Jul 16 05:57:22 catch her hair on fire Jul 16 05:57:36 lol Jul 16 05:57:43 sontek: its that pen a riot? i'll never use it. Jul 16 05:58:05 so the lastest ASU snapshot is unstable? Jul 16 05:58:15 anyone know what type of codec the moko needs for its ring tone? I looked and all current ringtones are .wav, so I converted an mp3 to .wav (mpg123 -w file.wav song.mp3) but the moko can't play it, says I need a wav decoder Jul 16 05:58:18 laser/light/pen/stylus in-one Jul 16 05:58:25 if it doesn't have a wav decoder, how is it playing the other ring tones? Jul 16 05:58:42 could be a raw dsp wav Jul 16 05:58:49 or somethin Jul 16 05:58:53 sontek: id look at the bitrate/etc of an existing wav Jul 16 05:58:55 sontek: do you have the original ringtone? Jul 16 05:59:06 run it through file, whats its actual files type? Jul 16 05:59:18 sontek: where are the ringtones kept? Jul 16 05:59:31 mmontour: hmm....went through my bash history....I accidentally flashed the tar.gz instead of jffs2 ... :( Jul 16 05:59:34 donomo: you define them in /etc/pulse/session Jul 16 05:59:57 MadTBone: whoops Jul 16 05:59:59 i want an sms notification tone that plays uhura "message from starfleet capt" Jul 16 06:00:23 haha, thatd be awesome Jul 16 06:00:24 i'm gonna make a whole startrek like theme Jul 16 06:00:31 ha Jul 16 06:00:46 sontek: ah i see it. the stock sounds are in /usr/share/openmoko/sounds Jul 16 06:00:48 did you know most of the sound fx in bzflag are startrek sounds Jul 16 06:00:54 yeah, if i could make it stable with all startrek themes, i could probably get a couple friends to get one ;) Jul 16 06:01:28 http://rafb.net/p/uFnpaD18.html Jul 16 06:01:32 file sees them as the same Jul 16 06:01:48 hrm Jul 16 06:01:50 kd8ikt: I used to have one for text messages from nagios at work that played the chorus of (rem's ??) "It's The End Of The World As We Know It" :) Jul 16 06:02:03 sontek: i see. that's odd. Jul 16 06:02:50 i wonder if it really could be my sim card Jul 16 06:03:47 Demo Only! Feature Not Implemented Yet Jul 16 06:03:50 haha, thats awesome. Jul 16 06:05:04 I wonder if there is a way to get the ring tone app to just use gstreamer to play ringtones Jul 16 06:05:08 that way I could use mp3s Jul 16 06:07:25 AntonTakk1: i've got your same problem with fso. no audio :/ Jul 16 06:07:31 its sooo pretty though Jul 16 06:07:39 MUCH nicer than 2007.2 or ASU Jul 16 06:07:51 yep Jul 16 06:08:06 if only there was audio i'd be using fso right now Jul 16 06:08:10 i love the signal/battery metres too Jul 16 06:08:14 i'm tired of bars, damnit Jul 16 06:08:20 but i need it to make calls *AND* have audio Jul 16 06:08:30 yeah Jul 16 06:08:34 i had audio with mine Jul 16 06:08:36 i kind of want/need sms too Jul 16 06:08:40 i tried calling out Jul 16 06:08:48 i keep calling 611 to test things... hehe Jul 16 06:09:03 i called myself Jul 16 06:09:17 flashing asu should finish any second now Jul 16 06:09:25 awesome Jul 16 06:09:35 i wasn't happy with ASU, couldn't get anything to launch Jul 16 06:09:51 hrm Jul 16 06:10:56 * chillywilly considers ASU Jul 16 06:11:20 has anyone successfully cross-compiled an openmoko app from Debian Etch? Jul 16 06:11:32 i did grab the openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-om-gta02.jffs2 file though, not the big long one Jul 16 06:11:44 file sizes were the same though, assuming its the same thing Jul 16 06:12:18 it looked like it was to me Jul 16 06:12:29 I grabbef the longer one so I would know wtf it is Jul 16 06:12:34 grabbed too Jul 16 06:12:52 k. do you have both of them now then? Jul 16 06:13:01 could md5sum them, or diff Jul 16 06:13:07 would tell us then ;) Jul 16 06:13:25 no, I don't have both Jul 16 06:13:31 ok Jul 16 06:13:42 you have the long one though right? Jul 16 06:14:00 961a43a1a26c15522fe08612ad5605fa openmoko-devel-image-om-gta02.jffs2 Jul 16 06:14:08 (md5sum Jul 16 06:14:19 yes Jul 16 06:14:26 kk Jul 16 06:14:43 397fb66ba4782d52dda2225834165871 Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080715-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 Jul 16 06:14:58 well that's interesting... Jul 16 06:15:02 whoops Jul 16 06:15:05 the first one is 2007.2 Jul 16 06:15:05 wrong image Jul 16 06:15:08 asu makes calls for me! WOO Jul 16 06:15:10 163db408daa6fc2fa16fe5b1b6f0bed3 openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-om-gta02.jffs2 Jul 16 06:15:14 ok, hah Jul 16 06:15:16 still different though Jul 16 06:15:16 blah ;P Jul 16 06:15:17 hmmm Jul 16 06:15:30 * nullpuppy grabs Jul 16 06:15:41 AntonTakk1: latest snapshot? Jul 16 06:15:55 yes Jul 16 06:16:08 I saw someone mention some command to issue in order to fix the audio issues Jul 16 06:16:36 I don't recall though Jul 16 06:16:47 I wonder if I should try the ASU Jul 16 06:16:58 anyone try qtopia.net image? Jul 16 06:16:58 i think i'm gonna try it again Jul 16 06:17:43 i haven't Jul 16 06:19:08 that might not be too bad of an option if you want software that is a bit more polished Jul 16 06:20:12 the trolls don't like direct external link to the images Jul 16 06:21:57 nullpuppy: I tried it yesterday, it's really nice compared to 2007.2 (not to complain here or anything, but still) Jul 16 06:24:49 vpv: the ASU daily? Jul 16 06:25:32 nullpuppy: nope, the qtopia.net upstream image Jul 16 06:25:35 openmoko: 03mail 07stable * ra7c50bf8b24b 10/fs/ext2/ext2fs.c: PATCH-fix-data-abort-from-sd-ombug799.patch.eml Jul 16 06:25:36 openmoko: 03mail 07stable * rba029a1426bf 10/drivers/misc/pcf50606.c: This patch changes rtc_get() to return an int. Without this change Jul 16 06:25:37 ok Jul 16 06:25:37 morning Jul 16 06:25:51 do we have a patched kernel for 2007.2 yet? Jul 16 06:26:14 openmoko: 03mail 07andy * ra7c50bf8b24b 10/fs/ext2/ext2fs.c: PATCH-fix-data-abort-from-sd-ombug799.patch.eml Jul 16 06:26:15 openmoko: 03mail 07andy * rba029a1426bf 10/drivers/misc/pcf50606.c: This patch changes rtc_get() to return an int. Without this change Jul 16 06:26:25 well, my phone won't turn on now Jul 16 06:26:38 not sure why Jul 16 06:26:43 hello... any news about the hw-fix on the freerunner regarding GPS and SD? Jul 16 06:27:18 admiral0 nothing final yet. tests about sw and hw first need to complete Jul 16 06:27:29 well this sucks Jul 16 06:28:11 roh: are we in a phase of testing the solution? Jul 16 06:28:38 admiral0 given that its 3 days and a weekend since the discovery and less than a day since we know its related to sd i think om is quite fast Jul 16 06:28:59 wth... Jul 16 06:29:12 admiral0: different possible things need to be tried.. are you into hw? then i could explain Jul 16 06:29:15 ieatlint: you mentioned last night that you had built a GTK app... did you build it for openmoko? Jul 16 06:29:19 awesome, i can't grab the qtopia.net image it looks like Jul 16 06:29:28 there it goes Jul 16 06:29:44 pygtk app... no compiling Jul 16 06:29:45 go to the main site and search for gta02 Jul 16 06:29:49 welp, seems I have a working phone now Jul 16 06:29:51 nevermind, there we go Jul 16 06:29:52 night all Jul 16 06:29:58 ieatlint: ok, thx Jul 16 06:30:16 chillywilly sometimes 5 secs seem quite long to power-on Jul 16 06:30:39 I suppose :P Jul 16 06:30:50 make sure you press power some 5-7 seconds. the red led below the aux key blinks shortly, then hold another second Jul 16 06:31:10 it's booting now Jul 16 06:31:18 for some reason i can't ssh into my FR anymore; the blank password no longer works Jul 16 06:31:24 but I'll have to do it again as I want to flash ASU Jul 16 06:32:03 roh:no i am just a dumb rookie programmer ^^ Jul 16 06:32:14 so what's this deal with GPS and SD? Jul 16 06:32:21 is that on the wiki somewhere? Jul 16 06:33:17 walrustown: the GPS has poor signal when there is a microsd plugged in Jul 16 06:33:37 * chillywilly flashes ASU Jul 16 06:33:48 dag nabbit Jul 16 06:34:47 hope the hw fix that hw team is working on will be simple & efficient Jul 16 06:36:22 walrustown, you're trying to set up a cross-compiling environment? Jul 16 06:36:41 i just tried myself... weird results Jul 16 06:36:44 ieatlint: yeah, I want to be able to compile c++ code Jul 16 06:36:47 ieatlint: what OS? Jul 16 06:37:03 admiral0: then the short answer: seems the sdcard clock is the source of some rf noise which makes gps less sensitive in the end. (very rough description) .. to fix it there are different possibilities of rf-blocking parts/part combintions. Jul 16 06:37:04 gentoo Jul 16 06:37:08 i built the compiler Jul 16 06:37:11 ieatlint: are you going off of http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain Jul 16 06:37:21 compiled a c app consisting off of "printf("hello world\n");" Jul 16 06:37:28 when i execute it.. Jul 16 06:37:36 root@om-gta02:~# ./hello Jul 16 06:37:36 -sh: ./hello: not found Jul 16 06:37:43 root@om-gta02:~# file hello Jul 16 06:37:43 hello: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1, for GNU/Linux 2.6.9, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped Jul 16 06:37:57 trix: I saw that too, on an openmoko-devel-image that I built for my gta01 today. I don't know why. Jul 16 06:38:12 ieatlint: ldd ./hello Jul 16 06:38:34 ldd isn't on my freerunner, heh Jul 16 06:38:38 ieatlint: err, I guess you'd have to do that on the host box Jul 16 06:38:40 yeah doh Jul 16 06:38:50 mmontour, it was like that after putting my gateway/local nameserver in resolv.conf. trying to remove it now. annoying. Jul 16 06:38:55 usually when I've seen that "not found" it means there's a missing lib Jul 16 06:39:18 admiral0 to find the right value for parts one needs to measure and experiment a bit. which takes time... besides that there is work going on to disable the clock when not needed (also saves power) aswell as to look if it makes sense to cchange the clock frequeny for the sdcard to something which doesnt interfer with the gps so badly Jul 16 06:39:34 i set the password from the handset to something simple and it still denies me Jul 16 06:39:48 roh: thank you Jul 16 06:39:53 no effect, walrustown Jul 16 06:40:10 vpv: oh, btw, hows the batterylife with the qtopia.net images? Jul 16 06:40:26 ieatlint: yeah, I guess you'd need the arm ldd Jul 16 06:40:48 nullpuppy: I haven't tested them for battery life, when I use the phone it's mostly connected with USB anyway ;) Jul 16 06:41:01 hehe, alright :) Jul 16 06:41:14 ieatlint: and you're not passing any wacky -l options then? Jul 16 06:41:27 * nullpuppy got the expected ~6hrs w/ 2007.2 today Jul 16 06:41:30 nope Jul 16 06:41:37 it does suspend and wake up, but the 'black' parts of the screen have some sort of weird garbage after wakeup... Jul 16 06:41:41 about as simplistic as it gets, gcc -o hello hello.c Jul 16 06:41:50 ok Jul 16 06:41:51 if you get those to redraw, it'll be ok Jul 16 06:41:57 ieatlint: hrm, sucky Jul 16 06:42:28 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain is quite confusing. What does "System Integration" and "customizing a distribution" mean? Jul 16 06:43:12 I just ignored that section Jul 16 06:43:45 how do you make a "/" on the keyboard of the default OS Jul 16 06:43:59 *keypad Jul 16 06:44:12 install the matchbox keyboard Jul 16 06:44:33 i think i set up my toolchain wrong Jul 16 06:44:44 used gnu instead of gnueabl Jul 16 06:44:45 i'm locked out of it oddly enough Jul 16 06:44:51 I tried the matchbox keyboard but it had a bug, 9 was typing ] Jul 16 06:45:28 sontek: yeah, i had that problem for a bit today Jul 16 06:45:35 at some point,it magically fixed itself Jul 16 06:46:15 any way to troubleshoot incoming ssh connections on the FR's terminal? Jul 16 06:47:06 rebuilding the toolchain... Jul 16 06:47:49 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r0e6002b3435c 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-asu-feed.bb: [openmoko-asu-feed] Remove diversity-nav from asu-feed. Jul 16 06:49:08 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r3b8b493f3664 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-asu-feed.bb: [openmoko-asu-feed] Bump up PR of asu-feed to force rebuild Jul 16 06:52:35 trix: i believe 3 quick taps on the 0 key will give a slash, but i can't test that right now Jul 16 06:52:47 netx303: thanks Jul 16 06:53:04 as for ssh, can you use -vvv when you ssh in? Jul 16 06:53:26 i had verbosity up yeah Jul 16 06:53:43 turns out i'd set the usb host to .202 instead of .200 by mistake Jul 16 06:54:08 in ifcfg-usb0 Jul 16 06:55:21 Is there any way to have screensaver that does not lock the screen? There is a menu alternative for it, but choosing it locks the screen anyway. Jul 16 06:55:59 i'm confused... where do i add a uboot entry on the FR? I'm trying to boot debian arm off of the sd Jul 16 06:56:40 there needs to be a boot block on the sd, and you simply tell it to boot from the sd as i understand Jul 16 06:57:21 swc|666: add a menu item as a u-boot environment variable Jul 16 06:57:38 yeah but my sd card has only 1 partition - ext2, and the bootloader gives me only the option for fat + ext2 (a 2 partitioned card) Jul 16 06:58:16 bleh fat Jul 16 06:58:40 fat serves it purpose quite well Jul 16 06:58:47 and whats that Jul 16 06:58:48 simplistic, universal, reliable, and relatively fast Jul 16 06:59:24 There's a bug in the shipped version of u-boot that means you can't load the kernel from an ext2 filesystem. It should be possible to load the kernel from NAND and then mount the rootfs from the SD (worked on GTA01 but I don't have a Freerunner to test it there) Jul 16 06:59:35 I don't care for the ASU stuff that much at all Jul 16 07:00:28 u-boot environment variable... k Jul 16 07:00:46 yay, i gots cross-compiling working Jul 16 07:02:43 mmontour no problem Jul 16 07:03:26 * Sebastian is happy that he finally gets a GPS fix :) Jul 16 07:03:51 ok, does anyone know how to disable the clicky sound? Jul 16 07:03:58 http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Freerunner/ <-- Is that 2007.2? Jul 16 07:04:04 yeah Jul 16 07:04:31 hmmm, both interfaces feel clunky Jul 16 07:04:35 swc|666: note that your kernel needs to have built-in support (not a module) for the root filesystem. ext2 and ext3 are different filesystems here, and some kernels only have ext3 built in. Jul 16 07:05:29 mmontour i built it by hand Jul 16 07:05:54 but thanx :) Jul 16 07:08:36 good morning Jul 16 07:10:41 hmmm Jul 16 07:10:50 why does it say gllin Jul 16 07:10:55 I thought gllin was neo Jul 16 07:10:58 not FR Jul 16 07:13:05 hmmm can not get gps lock Jul 16 07:13:10 micro sd is nto installed Jul 16 07:13:18 so that should not be blocking it Jul 16 07:15:46 heh, found a weird error in calculator, says "error, convert_chann, Beam requ" and takes up half the display window Jul 16 07:16:13 sounds like a feature to me Jul 16 07:16:17 heh Jul 16 07:16:22 :P Jul 16 07:17:38 do 1 / 0 = (so you get the inf sign), then press x then + then = and then press the sign key 6 times Jul 16 07:17:59 easter egg? Jul 16 07:18:04 na Jul 16 07:18:06 wow... i like the bootloader Jul 16 07:18:08 goodwill: gllin is Neo1973-only. Make sure that ther program you're using is reading from /dev/ttySAC1 not /tmp/nmeaNP Jul 16 07:22:54 ok, qtopia.net is pretty decent. no sms thouhg :/ got mms, but it won't send Jul 16 07:23:40 http://we.trekbeyond.org/~kd8ikt/communicator.mp3 Jul 16 07:26:24 stupid environment insisting it needs glibc ... :P Jul 16 07:27:53 mmontour: I believe it is Jul 16 07:28:04 hmmm openmoko-mediaplayer2 is not playing an avi Jul 16 07:28:09 anyone gotten it to work? Jul 16 07:28:15 nope Jul 16 07:28:31 well, not me Jul 16 07:30:58 there's a commandline mplayer build that plays stuff Jul 16 07:34:16 lolz http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List_-_Openmoko_Ringtones_and_Sounds#StarTrek Jul 16 07:35:30 ok. correction. got txt's to send. working fairly nicely too Jul 16 07:37:41 hello everyone i am openmoko intern student :) Jul 16 07:38:11 how goes it? Jul 16 07:39:25 nullpuppy:? correction for the bug involving GPS? Jul 16 07:41:46 admiral0: no, playing with qtopia.net's images for the fr Jul 16 07:41:51 haven't used gps on it yet Jul 16 07:42:01 gps on 2007.2 has been fruitless :/ Jul 16 07:43:33 ok, I got mplayer to play a clip Jul 16 07:43:39 excpet its streteched and no sound Jul 16 07:45:23 'morning Jul 16 07:49:40 Dave: ping Jul 16 07:49:50 Dave: any instraction on that matchobox keyboard install? Jul 16 07:51:14 has anyone tried Plantronics Pulsar 260 bluetooth headset ??? Jul 16 07:52:07 what do the extra question marks signify? Jul 16 07:57:50 i have decided to cancel my ordr Jul 16 07:58:02 apparently the motherfuckers at the airport wont let it go Jul 16 07:58:08 ieatlint, nothing a few exclamation marks cant fix !!! Jul 16 07:58:12 and the IDA systems guy isnt trying hard enough Jul 16 07:58:29 and everybody at openmoko says it is not their problem Jul 16 07:59:05 Guilt: IDA? Jul 16 08:00:32 how can i convert tangogps .log files so i can upload them to openstreetmaps? Jul 16 08:00:57 take a look at sed? :P Jul 16 08:02:02 Guilt IDA the indian distributor? Jul 16 08:06:20 yes. Jul 16 08:06:46 i am sending an email to support@ list, steve, harry & ida that i'm cancelling it if i dont recv in 2 days Jul 16 08:07:01 and i may never buy one again. and whoever doesnt want to take the risk, cancel their order too. Jul 16 08:08:11 Wow, looks like the GPS problems have been identified and a fix is in the works. Very nice. Jul 16 08:08:29 and a software fix at that! Jul 16 08:08:36 admiral0: gps fix coming soon Jul 16 08:09:06 if only they could fix the keyboard Jul 16 08:09:07 what's wrong with GPS ? Jul 16 08:09:25 heh, what's wrong with keyboard ? Jul 16 08:09:29 marcinsoo: missed out on the mailing list today eh? ;) Jul 16 08:09:37 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS_Problems Jul 16 08:09:44 nullpuppy: and? what do you think about those images? Jul 16 08:09:50 yes i've missed Jul 16 08:09:57 thx Jul 16 08:10:01 marcinsoo: you try typing console commands on it Jul 16 08:11:22 tessier:thank you for info Jul 16 08:12:19 alphabeat, that could explain why i dont have any problems with my gps, i havent added my sd card yet Jul 16 08:12:34 probably HauDyrArb Jul 16 08:12:49 a lot of people said that had massive gains removing the card Jul 16 08:14:42 how can i enter a / on the normal 2007.2 keyboard? Jul 16 08:15:54 ecraven: I don't think you can :S Jul 16 08:15:57 ^ Jul 16 08:16:03 hence the problem with it Jul 16 08:17:04 so basically my new freerunner who is flying now to me has bad solder ?! or only few ammount of freerunner have that problem ? Jul 16 08:18:15 yeah, turns out the solder is lead based, so do not lick it... them chinese and lead Jul 16 08:18:36 ;p Jul 16 08:18:41 heh Jul 16 08:19:21 this sucks. that IDA guy has put in rs 10 lakh (50 phones), Jul 16 08:19:29 or so he says ;p Jul 16 08:19:39 where are you? Jul 16 08:19:48 i am in Bangalore, India Jul 16 08:20:05 so i asked if i could complain to CVC (vigilance, anti corruption) Jul 16 08:20:14 but he says everybody's phones will get tied up then. Jul 16 08:20:39 he tried contacting UPS because they friggin decided to sent by cargo Jul 16 08:20:44 and not courier Jul 16 08:20:45 got to love red tape Jul 16 08:20:53 probably to cut costs. Jul 16 08:20:55 those cheap bastards Jul 16 08:21:01 and who hired UPS? Openmoko Jul 16 08:21:23 ;p eventually the root cause points to Openmoko. if there was ever a class action suit, not sure who'd be in trouble Jul 16 08:21:30 yeah, i'm no ups fan myself, and i don't have to deal with customs Jul 16 08:21:36 IDA, UPS or Openmoko? Jul 16 08:22:16 ieatlint: good for you. do you know the person who deals with it? Jul 16 08:22:30 ultimately, you Jul 16 08:22:43 i dont have to deal with customs, UPS has to Jul 16 08:22:48 and they arent doing anything anyway Jul 16 08:23:27 and Zoheb is at least trying to do something, he tells me Jul 16 08:23:31 i heard from my cousin that china uses lead in a certian paint colors Jul 16 08:23:32 US customs has never bothered any imports i've done, happily Jul 16 08:23:36 coz if he doesnt, i'll be pretty pissed off Jul 16 08:23:58 norway stinks... have to 50usd on import tax for a 150usd shipment Jul 16 08:24:15 so that's why the openmoko goes to germany and I pick it up there Jul 16 08:24:22 saves me 70€ Jul 16 08:24:24 Derick, if it makes you feel better, i paid $34 in tax Jul 16 08:24:37 whoa Jul 16 08:24:56 lint did you hear my trek sounds? Jul 16 08:25:09 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List_-_Openmoko_Ringtones_and_Sounds#StarTrek Jul 16 08:25:13 i'm afraid to say no... :P Jul 16 08:25:28 i'll just keep posting the link till you do Jul 16 08:25:28 i'm paying $3k (80$) in tax Jul 16 08:25:37 heh Jul 16 08:25:52 $3k USD for 1 phone? Jul 16 08:25:54 i meant, 3k INR (80$) Jul 16 08:25:59 oh, ok, hehe Jul 16 08:26:13 because... yay, get a plane ticket to guam, it'd be cheaper Jul 16 08:26:32 it's lesser. dollar prices shot? a total of $465 in taxes, shipping and cost Jul 16 08:27:00 that's what google tells me Jul 16 08:27:02 i was looking for a neat RF specificlly cellular band interference snds for a possible ringtone Jul 16 08:27:03 that's not bad Jul 16 08:27:16 i paid $441 including taxes and shipping Jul 16 08:27:31 hmm Jul 16 08:27:55 wow i feel bad for you i'll end up paying 380 somethin pluss gas to drive 4 hrs to pick it up Jul 16 08:28:22 i've paid 297€ Jul 16 08:28:32 all included Jul 16 08:28:35 ive paid $0 i didnt order one Jul 16 08:28:46 morning Jul 16 08:28:46 Psi:^^ Jul 16 08:28:52 kd8ikt: I have to fly to germany ;-) Jul 16 08:29:01 i've paid 350 Euro Jul 16 08:29:07 CM, hey :) Jul 16 08:29:15 im happy to play with my gta01 until the software is stable enough to use as an everyday phone Jul 16 08:29:21 then ill get one Jul 16 08:29:28 gta02/03 i mean Jul 16 08:29:36 marcinsoo:pulster? handheld-linux? Jul 16 08:29:51 I order from France Jul 16 08:29:57 me too Jul 16 08:30:09 i heard it was already a pretty stable everyday phone, except battery life Jul 16 08:30:22 heh, who told you that Jul 16 08:30:31 It still does a lot of kooky things Jul 16 08:30:56 For example right now mine has gone into sleep mode now and I can't wait it up. Jul 16 08:30:56 yeah, it has a lot of work left to do Jul 16 08:31:04 it only takes small bugs to make it unusable as your everyday phone Jul 16 08:31:04 That happens often it seems Jul 16 08:31:07 i dunno i get mine possibly tomorrow night Jul 16 08:31:24 And when it is working the apps seem rather slow and get behind Jul 16 08:32:24 i hear openmoko has a room full of monkeys hard at work working these things Jul 16 08:32:39 heh Jul 16 08:32:42 RFC monkey protocol Jul 16 08:33:31 goodwill: to get mplayer to play sound i had to stop pulseaudio Jul 16 08:33:46 or continue flashing images created by /dev/urandom untill you find one that works Jul 16 08:33:51 some of the slowness is due to the fact that the code isnt optimized yet and things are generating lots of debug messages to help developers fix bugs Jul 16 08:34:23 mplayer should be able to use pulseaudio Jul 16 08:35:54 Why is neod constantly burning 15% cpu? Jul 16 08:36:08 what about playing mpeg, avi ? Jul 16 08:36:19 That can't be good for battery life. Jul 16 08:37:09 marcinsoo: all depends what kind of bitrate/res the mpeg,avi is Jul 16 08:37:16 openmoko: 03tick * r4528 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/ (libopkg/opkg.c libopkg/opkg.h tests/libopkg_test.c): opkg: adding repository check function Jul 16 08:37:18 i see Jul 16 08:40:37 the UPS says "NEW DELHI, IN 30/06/2008 16:08 POWER OF ATTORNEY DOCUMENTATION IS MISSING AND IS REQUIRED FOR CLEARANCE " Jul 16 08:40:49 that's BAD, right? it's Openmoko's fault, then? Jul 16 08:41:53 doh! Jul 16 08:41:57 why would they need power of attorney documentation Jul 16 08:42:24 wtf Jul 16 08:42:54 when it crashes do you have to take out the battery if holding either button doesnt do anything? Jul 16 08:43:04 idk. i've emailed steve and haryr Jul 16 08:43:21 i'm not sure what. but one of the people involved are going to big trouble Jul 16 08:43:47 if it's the customs officials, i don Jul 16 08:43:59 't care what, i'm going to CVC if they hold down all phones Jul 16 08:44:00 kd8ikt: when i tried mplayer with pulseaudio running, mplayer could never open the audio device Jul 16 08:44:12 the customs officer will be put in Jail big time. Jul 16 08:44:19 kd8ikt: i didn't try very hard to fix it though, just killed off pulse :) Jul 16 08:44:34 actually i wonder, did the people/person who's having this problem try to order the freerunner to a postal address that's different to the address on the credit card they used to order it Jul 16 08:46:45 ive heard that causes problems in general Jul 16 08:48:01 Psi? Jul 16 08:48:07 the IDA guy? Jul 16 08:48:27 i dunno, ive not really been following the conversation on the problem Jul 16 08:48:53 was just a thought Jul 16 08:49:30 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/support/2008-July/000063.html Jul 16 08:50:05 and i've got a pvt mail from zoheb he got from UPS. and a couple others which i sent to steve. if you want, pm me and i will forward them to you Jul 16 08:50:27 and this is the UPS tracking number he gave me: H787 7605 103 Jul 16 08:51:49 power of attorney is an odd thing for them to require Jul 16 08:52:09 wow that sucks Jul 16 08:53:38 ^ Jul 16 08:53:51 evidently that form/doc is needed for anything passing customs Jul 16 08:54:02 wich is new to me Jul 16 08:54:12 yeah, that doesnt sound right Jul 16 08:54:41 i guess its so they can open it up and investimigate it Jul 16 08:56:19 i know my fam biz here in USA gets products from china in huge trailer/containers and every so box is opened and resealed with the customs tape and one/two items missing Jul 16 08:56:31 bastards! Jul 16 08:58:44 SHIT Jul 16 08:58:51 * tessier shits Jul 16 08:58:53 Now what? Jul 16 08:58:58 yeah. i was saying. bastards Jul 16 08:59:05 motherfuckers Jul 16 08:59:19 more swearing but let's limit it to a few good ones Jul 16 08:59:24 so i feel for you customs arseturds are jerks Jul 16 08:59:35 yeah, pretty much Jul 16 08:59:53 i bet they get mass money from smuggling drugs Jul 16 09:00:05 let them do their diuty but harassing their citizens isnt part of it Jul 16 09:00:15 them and the military Jul 16 09:00:18 i bet they actually encourage druggies but discourage normal people Jul 16 09:00:32 because the deal on drugs is too much Jul 16 09:00:49 cause military planes do wtf they please Jul 16 09:00:55 here is something i read over google.. the last customs officer who was arrested had amassed $1b. Jul 16 09:01:00 $, not INT Jul 16 09:01:03 INR* Jul 16 09:01:45 so, 1 billion USD is what that guy had when he was caught Jul 16 09:03:06 Hello. Can anybody tell me if the touch display of the FreeRunner is also included in the Dboard? Jul 16 09:03:36 ... the dboard has nothing to do with the touchscreen Jul 16 09:04:25 heh Jul 16 09:04:33 it isa jTAG board, basically Jul 16 09:04:39 kwk: google for jtag Jul 16 09:04:48 he left after i said that Jul 16 09:05:16 openmoko: 03tick * r4529 10/trunk/src/target/thumbnails/ (result/thumbnail.eet source/maps_diversity-maps-paris.png): adding new thumbnail Jul 16 09:05:27 :o Jul 16 09:07:41 maybe abraxa_knows him they practicly have the same hostmask Jul 16 09:08:48 that a german isp? Jul 16 09:09:09 yes, and a really big one Jul 16 09:19:00 how do i delete menu items in the bootloaders env variables? Jul 16 09:22:21 man thats one bad moko Jul 16 09:22:48 http://wiwi.openmyass.org Jul 16 09:24:08 troll Jul 16 09:29:07 ey!! something about the dboard Jul 16 09:29:15 someone used it for other devices? Jul 16 09:38:28 methril: sure, as long as those chips support jtag Jul 16 09:38:42 ok, thanks Guilt Jul 16 09:38:48 for that matter, you could also use a cheaper jtag board :-) Jul 16 09:39:04 just make sure you get the pins right. :-) Jul 16 09:39:06 i have a jtag Jul 16 09:39:15 JTAG-key Jul 16 09:39:43 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rb00bd478c6bd 10/ (5 files in 5 dirs): ogsmd: add (C) indicating the original source of the channel initialisation and overall concept Jul 16 09:40:11 it's only because i was thinking to get it, but as i have a JTAG, maybe i'm not going to order (when they have 900 again, and i have some money :)) Jul 16 09:41:06 Ha! Surprised? i think not ;) http://digg.com/mods/Google_s_Android_platform_not_so_open_after_all Jul 16 09:41:31 i've written a blog entry on google android too Jul 16 09:41:38 i'd like comments because i'm a publicity whore ;) Jul 16 09:41:45 http;//karmaking.blogspot.com Jul 16 09:42:47 s/http;//karmaking.blogspot.com /http://karmaking.blogspot.com Jul 16 09:42:53 you put a ; not a : Jul 16 09:42:55 :) Jul 16 09:47:10 * leinir really hopes lpotter's employer's legal team pull their collective backsides together soon wrt qtopia 4.4 ;) Jul 16 09:47:57 get used to that legal team being really, really slow. :D Jul 16 09:48:51 so booting from sd "isn't" possibe on the FR? Jul 16 09:49:02 Robot101: Yeah, i know :) Still sucks ;) Jul 16 09:49:21 that is, booting an ext2 or ext3 partition Jul 16 09:49:24 ? Jul 16 09:51:06 why not? Jul 16 09:52:25 aparently this has something of reevance? http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/021524.html Jul 16 09:52:27 freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r6d450d606a07 10/ (test/test.py tests/test.py): Moved test.py into test directory Jul 16 09:52:27 freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r947110575632 10/ (5 files in 5 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of ssh://git@git.freesmartphone.org/framework Jul 16 09:52:31 relevance* Jul 16 09:53:55 i can't figure it out Jul 16 09:54:22 been trying to boot from sd on the FR for a few hours now to no avail Jul 16 09:54:42 it cant find my root partition Jul 16 09:54:58 mickey|lunch: Just so I know, what is the current level of implementation of basic telephony stuff in FSO dbus api ? Can we do everything we can do with phone-kit ? Jul 16 09:55:52 it's lightyears ahead Jul 16 09:56:00 so, the answer is: 'yes, i think so' Jul 16 09:56:09 or at least hope so ;) Jul 16 09:56:13 until you prove me wrong Jul 16 09:56:53 I won't prove you wrong, you're my god. Don't you mind ? :-) Jul 16 09:57:01 heh ;) Jul 16 09:57:06 too much the honor Jul 16 09:57:10 mickey|lunch: By the way, we have a working and compiling package for SHR openmoko-dialer3 Jul 16 09:57:10 mere mortal Jul 16 09:57:16 awesome! Jul 16 09:57:17 I did a bunch of basic stuff in C Jul 16 09:57:19 where? Jul 16 09:57:20 dbus bindings and such Jul 16 09:57:23 If I'm motivated enough Jul 16 09:57:27 and why also is it that when i get two different sets of bootloader menus on the FR when I unplug/plug back in the power? sometimes its the default and sometimes its the one that has my modified boot entries??? Jul 16 09:57:29 I think the basic dbus stuff will be ended by sunday Jul 16 09:57:38 excellent. Jul 16 09:57:40 So we may be able to come with a working UI for sunday Jul 16 09:57:48 mickey|lunch: (SHR repo) Jul 16 09:57:51 swc|666: sounds like you are sometimes seeing the NOR menu and sometimes the NAND Jul 16 09:57:56 Ainulindale: ok, cool Jul 16 09:57:57 ahhhh Jul 16 09:58:12 mickey|lunch: so the second thing to do is to be able to run matchbox/today2 on FSO Jul 16 09:58:21 mickey|lunch: though, we will ship with the current PIM Jul 16 09:58:26 righto Jul 16 09:58:32 As I told people before, I can't use a distro without PIM, I need my contacts Jul 16 09:58:37 (I use the FR as a phone) Jul 16 09:58:57 mickey|lunch: is there some way to dictate which one loads (NOR menu / NAND menu)? Jul 16 09:58:59 mickey|lunch: Oh, and what about i18n ? Jul 16 09:59:06 seems random to me Jul 16 09:59:11 mickey|lunch: Current PIM strips out my accents on SMSes Jul 16 09:59:12 swc|666: depends on the sequence of holding the AUX button. more details in the wiki Jul 16 10:00:01 Ainulindale: ogsmd should behave a bit better in that regards, although we're not parsing in PDU mode (which enables all kinds of charsets) Jul 16 10:00:13 [yet] Jul 16 10:00:24 Ok :-) Jul 16 10:00:30 Hope you will soon Jul 16 10:00:37 After all you need i18n as much as me Jul 16 10:00:49 *nod* Jul 16 10:00:54 ogsmd sees my Umlaute in SMSes Jul 16 10:01:01 so at least that already works Jul 16 10:01:11 Right now phone-kit doesn't see every accent Jul 16 10:01:15 we're parsing w/ iso-8859-1 atm. Jul 16 10:01:16 And it adds a FF00 in the end Jul 16 10:02:47 so when i write boot entries should i be writin them to the NOR or NAND? Jul 16 10:03:28 vpv: tried with neocon too; and in NAND mode for me (sorry for beeing late) Jul 16 10:03:46 * swc|666 apologizes for being a n00b, i'm just spoiled in my time with Haret / HTC /iPaq Jul 16 10:03:58 NAND, since NOR is the emergency loader Jul 16 10:04:03 swc|666: NAND, NOR is write protected Jul 16 10:04:11 kk Jul 16 10:04:14 what's the best way to stay in touch with development? mailing lists? Jul 16 10:04:43 zathras_laptop: that and being in mickey|lunch's pants Jul 16 10:05:06 Ainulindale, i'll take your word for the latter ;-) Jul 16 10:05:09 which lists? Jul 16 10:06:25 devel@ ? :-) Jul 16 10:13:42 ayeuu: no problem, I mistakenly tried to use NOR all the time until I figured it out. I've now made a small tutorial about it: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Vpv/Booting_Qtopia Jul 16 10:14:17 bbl :-) Jul 16 10:14:26 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r3a10d67687be 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/ (modems/abstract/mediator.py objects.py): ogsmd: add 'name' parameter as result in org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.GetHomeZones() -> a(siii) Jul 16 10:14:34 vpv: nice Jul 16 10:15:02 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * ra21409678d64 10/otapi/ (2 files in 2 dirs): otapi: add name parameter to org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.GetHomeZones() -> a(siii) Jul 16 10:34:48 swc|666: as far as I'm aware you should only make changes to the NAND, the NOR is there as a last resort for unbricking if you screw up the NAND Jul 16 10:35:12 oops, was scrolled up, didn't realise that'd already been answered Jul 16 10:35:22 Elleo: i figured as much.. .thanx anyway ;) Jul 16 10:35:35 i'm having problems though with my boot args Jul 16 10:44:23 I was talking the other day about the (non Minimo) Mozilla mobile effort. Here is some status report about it: http://developer.mozilla.org/devnews/index.php/2008/06/30/aboutmobile-our-first-issue-fennec-m4-available-mobile-network-profiling-tool-and-more/ Jul 16 10:44:28 (just for the curious) Jul 16 10:48:45 thanks... interesting Jul 16 10:49:29 i'm impressed M4 is already out, i thought the project was still organising Jul 16 10:52:52 are the kernels in the daily builds for the FR built with ext2/ext3 support? Jul 16 10:54:21 /lib/modules/2.6.24/kernel/fs/ext2/ext2.ko ... i don't see an ext3 Jul 16 10:54:29 could be compiled in, but if ext2 isn't, i doubt it Jul 16 10:55:07 try cat /proc/filesystems Jul 16 10:55:27 i meant actually regarding booting from sd Jul 16 10:55:27 it is listed Jul 16 10:55:34 ext3 i guess is compiled in Jul 16 10:56:34 i would assume so Jul 16 10:56:52 hmm Jul 16 10:56:59 did you look at the wiki? i imagine this would be the same for the neo1973 Jul 16 10:57:18 yeah most everything there is for the neo1973 Jul 16 10:59:35 swc|666: I'm still waiting for mine to arrive, so don't have first hand experience, but from what other people have said in the past I believe uboot requires a FAT boot partition on the SD Jul 16 11:00:29 Elleo: that would make sense... the closest i've come to booting into the SD is when i took the approach of having the kernel on the FAT partition Jul 16 11:00:46 FAT for the kernel as the forst partition, ext3 for the rootfilesystem as the second and then modify NAND u-boot to use ext3 instead of ext2. Jul 16 11:00:50 then it gets to the ext2 partition and kernel panic Jul 16 11:00:56 s/forst/first/ Jul 16 11:00:57 vpv meant: FAT for the kernel as the first partition, ext3 for the rootfilesystem as the second and then modify NAND u-boot to use ext3 instead of ext2. Jul 16 11:01:14 ahhhhhh.... so ext3 then Jul 16 11:01:21 * swc|666 growls Jul 16 11:02:09 does gstreamer support http streaming yet? Jul 16 11:02:09 then, should my boot entry look like this? Jul 16 11:02:14 menu_9 Boot from SD (FAT+ext3): setenv bootargs ${bootargs_base} rootfstype=ex3 root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rootdelay=5 ${mtdparts} ro; mmcinit; fatload mmc 1 0x32000000 ${sd_image_name}; bootm 0x32000000 Jul 16 11:02:37 ext3* Jul 16 11:03:11 ie, opkg repository gstreamer ^_^ Jul 16 11:03:12 probably something like that, yes, I can't check the ML posts right now Jul 16 11:03:35 we'll see... Jul 16 11:18:13 wooo the WLAN card is a mips Jul 16 11:20:42 glade a gtk+ visual IDE? Jul 16 11:21:26 no, it's a gui builder Jul 16 11:22:30 but it can make gtk+ windows right? Jul 16 11:22:55 yes Jul 16 11:23:04 that's what gui builders do Jul 16 11:23:13 well, gtk+ ones anyway Jul 16 11:23:22 it doesn't do much else, hence it's not an IDE Jul 16 11:23:52 i got confused... is the FR GUI based on GTK or Qt? Jul 16 11:24:22 http://www.gtk.org/screenshots.html Jul 16 11:24:28 love how they have a pick of the moko Jul 16 11:24:32 pic* Jul 16 11:25:56 Derick, the default is gtk. ASU will use qtopia for telephony apps. What happens after that, anybody's guess. Jul 16 11:26:22 oh and the SHR project is trying to integrate the FSO backend with the 2007.2 gtk frontend telephony apps Jul 16 11:28:11 mjr: so if I'd were to make an app... GTK would still be ok? I don't see why there should be two supported things :/ Jul 16 11:28:21 it would Jul 16 11:28:37 oh yeah, and the apps openmoko themselves will do seem to be efl ones :] Jul 16 11:29:01 anyway, seems there is not "one toolkit to rule them all" for openmoko Jul 16 11:29:12 then I have to figure out how to actually run those apps in qemu... I can only seem to boot GTA01 with it, and then the UI doesn't even react to anything :/ Jul 16 11:30:15 well, you can mostly develop just compiling for x86 especially if you're not doing anything phone-related Jul 16 11:30:49 i know, it just want to make sure it compiles for openmoko too.. and how it'd look like Jul 16 11:31:19 w00t! that did it Jul 16 11:31:45 does iwconfig ath0 essid any work? (for connecting to closest open net? Jul 16 11:32:54 hello everyone Jul 16 11:33:14 actually i got a problem in running qemu using Mokomakefile Jul 16 11:33:42 I build qemu using makefile, but as said it is loading the old buggy ASU image Jul 16 11:34:18 i replaced the images in images/openmoko/...... by the latest images of gta02 Jul 16 11:34:37 but while running make flash-qemu-official, it is showing the error Jul 16 11:35:27 hi, is there any music player for neo freerunner? Jul 16 11:36:30 Hoolxi: mplayer and openmoko media player. Jul 16 11:36:52 Hoolxi: mplayer handles streaming, I'm not sure if mediaplayer handles them (yet) Jul 16 11:36:56 has anyone recently tried to build qemu using makefile Jul 16 11:36:58 ?? Jul 16 11:37:35 Hoolxi: I'm listening to a shoutcast stream on my freerunner now.. streamed from my desktop computers alsa output so I will even hear IM logon messages etc. ^_^ Jul 16 11:38:17 IXian-probe, sounds great Jul 16 11:38:37 Hoolxi: do don't expect a gui on mplayer though. Jul 16 11:38:57 IXian-probe, console mode would be fine, Jul 16 11:40:14 kd8ikt, wifi is eth0 on the freerunner Jul 16 11:41:06 IXian-probe, in fact , i installed mpg321, but didn't work, something was not configured well with my sound card (maybe alsa) Jul 16 11:41:13 oh well does "any" for essid auto find open AP's ? Jul 16 11:41:31 i know this laptops atheros card does that Jul 16 11:42:40 kd8ikt, I would think so but have not tried it Jul 16 11:43:56 w00t just discovered a new function system( (echo now i can use shell cmds neato); Jul 16 11:44:44 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rc77b82db589d 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [opkg] Bump up the reversion of opkg to 4528 Jul 16 11:44:44 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r9d3f26e4d1d4 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [assassin] Bump up the reversion of assassin to 195 Jul 16 11:44:45 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r8921a03bbab2 10/packages/openmoko-projects/assassin_svn.bb: [assassin] Remove curl in DEPENDS of assassin Jul 16 11:44:46 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r89bbfd943eee 10/packages/packagekit/ (files/repository-ping.patch packagekit_git.bb): [packagekit] Add a patch to packagekit. Jul 16 11:44:49 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r34b00e86ee26 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [assassin-thumbnail] Bump up the reversion of assassin-thumbnail to 4529 Jul 16 11:48:24 kd8ikt, that would be php? Jul 16 11:49:02 it's also python in the os context ... "os.system()" Jul 16 11:50:40 works with C too i think or is it C++ dunno but gcc compiled it just fine Jul 16 11:51:05 yep Jul 16 11:51:05 http://nixcraft.com/coding-general/189-using-shell-commands-c.html Jul 16 11:52:05 i was just thinking in programming, like if i wanted to make a frontend to the iw-tools Jul 16 11:52:19 then you'd want popen, not system Jul 16 11:52:21 isnt their already one? Jul 16 11:53:08 like gnomes wireless applet Jul 16 11:54:00 just click on the wifi icon and it shows u the detected AP's/signal strength Jul 16 11:54:27 omg i cant wait 2 more days then i can see for myself Jul 16 11:54:40 suspense is killin me Jul 16 11:55:32 i remember checking openmoko's site atleast once a week since the 1973 came out (well after they sold out) Jul 16 11:56:04 kd8ikt: wicd is a kind of frontend for wireless-tools Jul 16 11:57:44 cant say i like the look of that Jul 16 11:59:05 i was thinking more along the lines of ubuntu's use of nm-applet Jul 16 11:59:42 How is call audio handled? Jul 16 12:00:01 does it flow through the processor, Gsmd? Jul 16 12:01:57 i don't think so Jul 16 12:02:10 gromez: http://www.gnome.org/projects/NetworkManager/ doesnt that look more appealing then that wicd junk? Jul 16 12:02:15 http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/2384/dscn1961yk3.jpg Jul 16 12:02:26 wouldn't surprise me if the modem had its own speaker/mic pins to the soundcard and show up as different lines Jul 16 12:02:40 xfce Jul 16 12:02:50 ;) Jul 16 12:03:02 very nice swc Jul 16 12:03:11 thanks Jul 16 12:03:23 now maybe i can sleep (5:03am) Jul 16 12:03:38 hah, where are you? Jul 16 12:03:44 seattle, wa Jul 16 12:03:48 u? Jul 16 12:03:53 down in san fran :P Jul 16 12:04:01 ahhh... nice Jul 16 12:04:19 there seems to be a lot of openmoko ppl in sfo area Jul 16 12:04:23 i'm stuck trying to cross compile coreutils for arm with little success Jul 16 12:04:42 using bitbake? Jul 16 12:05:50 nope Jul 16 12:05:52 using gentoo Jul 16 12:06:03 and its package system Jul 16 12:06:22 hmm Jul 16 12:06:27 trying to recompile bluez with alsa support so i can use a bluetooth headset Jul 16 12:06:52 ouch Jul 16 12:06:57 problem is that the makefile in coreutils verifies it did a good job by trying to run programs it compiled in weird ways Jul 16 12:07:05 obviously, being compiled for arm, this fails Jul 16 12:07:30 so fix the makefile :) Jul 16 12:07:32 hmmm Jul 16 12:07:56 i'm trying to do it more eloquintly :P Jul 16 12:08:01 is that debian that you installed on it 666? Jul 16 12:08:09 kd8ikt: but you must have gnome to get network manager, wicd have no gnome dependencies Jul 16 12:08:14 ieatlint: something wrong with bitbake bluez-utils-alsa ??? Jul 16 12:08:26 with gentoo, to add arm cross compiling, i only had to type "crossdev -t arm-unknown-linux-gnueabi" Jul 16 12:08:30 ieatlint: or if you are a Makefile user make bluez-utils-alsa Jul 16 12:08:44 hi... can you explain what's this about http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FreeRunner_GPS_antenna_repair_SOP? Jul 16 12:08:50 eh who says ya need gnome its GTK so if you have the libs if not i'll emulate it with my own app Jul 16 12:09:02 XorA, yeah, i don't want to sully my system with environments and packages that can't be uninstalled Jul 16 12:09:12 ieatlint: then use OE Jul 16 12:09:27 i'd rather stick with gentoo Jul 16 12:09:32 a simple rm -rf will remove it Jul 16 12:09:40 i can could hack the makefile with it just as easily Jul 16 12:10:03 but i'm trying not to do hacks, i'm trying to work out a patch, since this isn't a me-specific thing Jul 16 12:10:24 admiral0: there is a design issue in the FR that causes the GPS to have difficulty receving a signal if the SD card is inserted. AFAIK the soldering advice in that article is unnecessary Jul 16 12:11:06 sitwon: thanks... i heard that there will be a sw solution ... Jul 16 12:11:32 probably disable any sd card polling while using gps Jul 16 12:11:49 basically thats it Jul 16 12:11:51 dunno why that would mess it up Jul 16 12:11:55 SD clock is always on Jul 16 12:12:05 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.dev * re0cd30e3eb04 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [pyefl-sudoku] Add Python EFL sudoku. Jul 16 12:12:12 and looks like it puts RF interference into GPS system Jul 16 12:12:14 figure there is enough bandwidth for both if not be intensly used Jul 16 12:12:20 but SD cards dont need clock to be always on Jul 16 12:12:21 oh Jul 16 12:12:33 git andy branch has a patch to fix that for people to try Jul 16 12:14:59 shutting down the SD clock sounds like that will save battery power as well Jul 16 12:16:03 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.dev * r3e097ab77652 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-feed.bb: [pyefl-sudoku] Add pyefl-sudoku into Openmoko Feed Jul 16 12:16:03 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.dev * r7c186f02ef30 10/conf/distro/include/moko-autorev.inc: [pyefl-sudoku] Set AUTOREV for pyefl-sudoku Jul 16 12:16:25 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rd70b83daf1bb 10/ (7 files in 3 dirs): add directory for implementation docs Jul 16 12:18:42 Wander_w: yes it should Jul 16 12:19:56 double advantage then: working GPS and more battery Jul 16 12:24:15 i failed to install openmoko mediaplayer, because it require libfreetype6(2.3.6), but the latest is 2.3.5-r3 Jul 16 12:24:29 quite odd Jul 16 12:25:48 how does opkg caculate the dependency? Jul 16 12:26:08 i dont hink it currently does Jul 16 12:27:42 kd8ikt: It is not a bandwidth problem, it is the SD clock signal that gives a lot of noise. It seems to interfere with the GPS signal. The SD card reader is very close to the GPS module. Jul 16 12:27:46 i'll show it again for those that missed it the first time http://downloads.openmoko.org/openmoko-repository/Freerunner/Packages <-- openmoko's | a sane ipk package list ---> http://downloads.openwrt.org/kamikaze/packages/armeb/Packages Jul 16 12:28:14 gotcha Morge Jul 16 12:28:30 that really sucks Jul 16 12:28:58 need to drop a faraday cage in it? Jul 16 12:30:18 The software fix will sort of fix the problem, but the clock will need to be enabled whenever you read or write to the SD card. This means that depending on the ammount of data, the GPS will have interference and poor reception sometimes. Short reading bursts, like for playing MP3 or such, could possibly work our, but if you are using your gps while writing your mp3 collection to the phone, the GPS will suffer. Jul 16 12:31:12 Morge, thats something to take into account when GTA03 is build Jul 16 12:31:31 hm. Jul 16 12:31:37 kd8ikt: That would be a solution. Maybe low-pass filtering the clock signal would work as well. The sqare pulses generate a lot of interference. Jul 16 12:31:44 When is the GTA03 planned? Jul 16 12:31:54 dunno Jul 16 12:32:01 HauDyrArb: Yes, it would. I am not woking for FIC though, I am just making educated guesses =) Jul 16 12:32:07 think thats possible?? Jul 16 12:32:43 Anyone here work for FIC? Jul 16 12:34:19 ohhcause the antenna is nodoubt connected straight to the chip having nothing to do with the bus Jul 16 12:35:29 i dont know if software can fix it Jul 16 12:35:44 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * ra23b5faaf0c1 10/ (7 files in 4 dirs): ogsmd: start with ezx samples Jul 16 12:35:59 raster: hey ;) Jul 16 12:36:44 ecraven: moo Jul 16 12:37:15 raster: thanks for the pointers about evas, but i believe the callbacks will create *lots* of problems, the interface doesn't look as if it would port well to Scheme Jul 16 12:37:37 canyt help there Jul 16 12:37:42 i'm a C man Jul 16 12:37:46 do it in C Jul 16 12:37:49 or... well... don't do it Jul 16 12:37:50 :) Jul 16 12:37:59 that's my world anyway Jul 16 12:38:00 :) Jul 16 12:38:15 there are python bindings for evas etc. Jul 16 12:38:19 tho i never use them Jul 16 12:38:21 didnt write them Jul 16 12:38:31 someone did lua bindings Jul 16 12:38:35 and ruby ones too Jul 16 12:38:40 so scheme is possible Jul 16 12:38:48 but it might not be a minimal effort Jul 16 12:39:49 truthfully i dont think i care a lot in gps always running/sampling for acceleration stats etc but to be able to grab single points here and there Jul 16 12:40:10 Nice work on enlightenment btw. It's Almost usable on gta01 =) Jul 16 12:40:22 so.. if that "turn off the sd card" trick works i'd be happy Jul 16 12:42:55 if someone wanted to write a voicemail program for the openmoko, how would they go about it? Jul 16 12:43:25 s/openmoko/neo freerunner/ Jul 16 12:43:25 Sargun_screen meant: if someone wanted to write a voicemail program for the neo freerunner, how would they go about it? Jul 16 12:44:10 I've looked at the gsmd interface, but it doesn't mention where the actual voicestream goes Jul 16 12:45:01 analog audio to/from the WM8753 chip. You can route this audio through the ADC/DACs with appropriate alsamixer settings Jul 16 12:46:15 that'd be cool i disbaled my phones voice mail cause its lame and takes forever to call a VMB Jul 16 12:46:42 called my service provider up and was like "get it out of here" :P dont want it l) Jul 16 12:47:01 o does the audioo (normally) flow from the gsm board (analog) to the WM chip which takes it to the samsung processor Jul 16 12:47:35 and then from there it goes out to tthe WM chip back through the speakers? Jul 16 12:47:56 normally the audio doesn't touch the CPU - it's analog between the mic/speaker, WM8753, and the GSM chipset Jul 16 12:47:58 Rakshasa: e17 itself or e + illume + config? Jul 16 12:48:08 my dad had this crazy habit of talking to it like i could hear it (old in home tape voice mails) "hello!? pickup your phone! get up its morning! we have plans remember!?" Jul 16 12:48:16 or by default does audio go through as a passthrough? Jul 16 12:48:21 See the "Neo1973 Audio Subsystem" wiki page Jul 16 12:57:12 hm openmoko got slashdotted. what about allowing people to backorder? Jul 16 12:59:36 is openmoko hardware profitable for FIC? Jul 16 12:59:55 Sargun_screen, It sold out? Jul 16 13:00:18 oh sure enough.. well the july 25th projected date isn't bad Jul 16 13:10:39 Can someone mail me the newest tangoGPS? As I'm not able to download it right now. DNS is f*ed :/ Jul 16 13:11:22 Or send cia irc Jul 16 13:11:22 hi i just thought about this.. openmoko has its hardwares made using cad softwares which are free softwares? Jul 16 13:12:25 then it means there is enough softwares to replace every proprietary softwares thats used in an electronics engineering course.. Jul 16 13:12:39 is there a way to put up a compilation toolchain on the phone? Jul 16 13:12:59 easy way :P Jul 16 13:15:28 the free cad tools are not particularly good Jul 16 13:15:29 Don't bother.. got it through http://www.theproxyfree.com/ Jul 16 13:18:49 how can disable sanity checks while using bitbake to make a package? Jul 16 13:19:26 #include Jul 16 13:19:44 kdub should be possible but not sure it worth it....i had a toolchain running on my zaurus a while back which was ok for same compiles Jul 16 13:21:13 zedstar: yeah, i dont really want to put the effort in, i was just hoping for a package Jul 16 13:23:57 HauDyrArb: #include ?? Jul 16 13:24:13 its a joke Jul 16 13:24:43 really? Jul 16 13:24:48 * kuzgun is thinking on that Jul 16 13:24:50 rly Jul 16 13:25:18 kdub: you can "opkg install" the stuff you need (make, gcc, binutils, etc). I don't know if there's any virtual package that will automatically pull in the commonly-needed tools. Jul 16 13:26:04 raster: I was just testing the e17. What's this illume thing then? Jul 16 13:26:11 or install em onto nfs Jul 16 13:26:20 doc|home: has left seattle ;) Jul 16 13:26:44 (bound for miami no doubt :P) Jul 16 13:27:43 raster: Found it, sorry. Jul 16 13:30:27 mmontour: i'm really just trying to get any way to compile running, the cross compiling doesnt seem to be working Jul 16 13:32:29 kdub: u tried mokomakefile to build the tools? Jul 16 13:33:35 i'm following what is said here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain Jul 16 13:34:00 does the wiki have the iptables NAT command you'd need to share your inet connection from your computer so the phone can route through it Jul 16 13:34:25 it compiles the sample project, but when i copy the binary over it doesnt execute Jul 16 13:34:56 awesomo4k: and the echo for IP forward Jul 16 13:35:04 kbud when u do file on the binary what it say? Jul 16 13:35:14 Ainulindale: yeah... is that up somewhere ? Jul 16 13:35:35 Yephttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking Jul 16 13:35:45 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking <= sorry for the 'Yep' Jul 16 13:36:14 tanks Jul 16 13:36:31 hrm, elf, it looks like it was compiled for x86 :/ Jul 16 13:37:32 kdub: don't forget to run the setup-env script Jul 16 13:38:37 yeh sounds like it didnt run the cross gcc Jul 16 13:39:09 derick@kossu:/usr/local/vmware/openmoko-dev/openmoko-sample2$ file ./src/.libs/openmoko-sample Jul 16 13:39:12 ./src/.libs/openmoko-sample: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.14, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped Jul 16 13:39:16 is what it should say Jul 16 13:39:20 (on the host) Jul 16 13:43:29 ah, there we go. i ran setup-env, rebooted between then and now Jul 16 13:43:42 anyone know how to change the ring tone in ASU? Jul 16 13:44:48 thanks Derick and zedstar Jul 16 13:45:00 or at least make it vibrate only? Jul 16 13:46:35 Did anyone test if SD has some influence on gps on gta01? It can certainly be not much. But i have the feeling it could have improved when i tested without sd. Does anyone have numbers? Would be cool to boost the sensibility just a little bit more Jul 16 13:46:58 more questions, where is the source to things like openmoko-mediaplayer? Jul 16 13:49:01 DPThought: SpeedEvil tried it yesterday and didn't see any significant difference. I'm planning to test it too but I haven't had time yet. Jul 16 13:50:27 mmontour: thx Jul 16 13:50:49 spelling mistake Jul 16 13:51:45 what is the brunt of development aimed at? (qtopia, fso, shr, 2007.2) ? Jul 16 13:52:39 kdub: asu :) Jul 16 13:52:52 (which you might mistakenly be calling qtopia :) ) Jul 16 13:53:11 * kdub is confused Jul 16 13:53:33 does the freerunner only need any resistor between the ID pin and ground or need it a 47K ohm resistor, to recognize that it can be load with 1A? Jul 16 13:54:20 DPThought: I tested several things using both the internal and external antenna. Jul 16 13:54:25 afaik it's gotta be around 47k, but not sure Jul 16 13:54:39 kdub: can you specify your confusion a touch? :) Jul 16 13:55:05 DPThought: GTA01 reports signal strengths in th range 13-32 or so Jul 16 13:55:06 it isn't possible to tell the freerunner via software that it can be load with 1A, or is it? Jul 16 13:55:11 HdR: yes Jul 16 13:55:23 echo fast_cccv >/sys/somewhere Jul 16 13:55:40 http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Complete_QWERTY_Keyboard_On_The_Freerunner Jul 16 13:55:52 fails on a virgin FR Jul 16 13:55:55 DPThought: any effect of mplayer an mp3, or reading writing the SD at 3M/second is under 1 unit Jul 16 13:55:59 SpeedEvil: i tried echo "fast" >/sys/devices/platform/s3c2440-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/chgmode, but it didn't work Jul 16 13:56:01 it's software controllable (though is fast_cccv nowadays 1A or just 500mA?) Jul 16 13:56:16 # opkg install /tmp/matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod_0.0\+svnr1910-r10_armv4t.ipk Jul 16 13:56:16 Installing matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod (0.0+svnr1910-r10) to root... Jul 16 13:56:16 Nothing to be done Jul 16 13:56:16 An error ocurred, return value: 1. Jul 16 13:56:16 Collected errors: Jul 16 13:56:17 mjr: I'm unsure actually. Jul 16 13:56:17 ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod: Jul 16 13:56:19 libfreetype6 (>= 2.3.6) Jul 16 13:56:22 The Freerunner has a different /sys node to control charger current Jul 16 13:56:33 mjr: owing to the whole not having a freerunner thing :) Jul 16 13:56:41 mmontour: ah Jul 16 13:57:23 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-July/003761.html Jul 16 13:59:28 SpeedEvil: cause cat /sys/devices/platform/s3c2440-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/chgmode results "fast" if connected to the om charger Jul 16 13:59:31 leinir: basically, i want to help program, but dont know what to throw my weight behind :P. Jul 16 13:59:32 Ah, well that would be FSO :) Jul 16 13:59:33 OpenMoko (the company) is backing the ASU, but the person writing the ASU is going to move to FSO once the ASU stack is out the door ;) Jul 16 13:59:33 HdR, well. May be that the driver doesn't do it yet, but it should be software controlled anyway. Or then it wants echo -n (which I've found to be the case at least before with some sys thingies, unrelated to OM) Jul 16 13:59:35 mjr: ok doesn't work either, but thank you anyway Jul 16 14:00:57 leinir: ahh, ok. i'm just trying to get my bearings for the project. specifically, id like to do things with multimedia, or compiz-like window management Jul 16 14:01:22 Please no, nothing so broken as compiz Jul 16 14:01:25 for things like that you don't really need to pick a stack, since that doesn't have much to do with the phones Jul 16 14:01:32 also, recall we don't have gl acceleration Jul 16 14:01:35 mmontour: thx, seems like i have to build my own kernel ;) Jul 16 14:01:51 But windowmanagement in general, raster is doing that one, and doing it rather well :) Jul 16 14:02:16 is that patch not in the daily builds yet? Jul 16 14:02:26 multimedia, however, that'll definitely be worth looking at fso, as that's where the project is headed in general :) Jul 16 14:02:35 any idea how/where to get the freetype2.3.6 that the full qwerty kb depends on ? Jul 16 14:02:36 * mmontour also suffers from the "not having a freerunner thing" Jul 16 14:02:43 any news on the GPS hardware problem? Jul 16 14:02:48 oops hello Jul 16 14:02:48 mmontour: dunno, atm i'm using the mwester kernel Jul 16 14:02:52 leinir: i've done some work for vlc, i was thinking of trying to port that Jul 16 14:02:56 gnu{-: it does not affect GTA01 Jul 16 14:03:03 Someone should produce a hand optimized theora decoder. ;) Jul 16 14:03:09 Gnutoo: Not since the kernel patch which disables the sd clock when not needed :) Jul 16 14:03:12 yeah I'd look at fso, but it's not like you can't do multimedia apps merely by developing on your pc, just keeping the restrictions in mind Jul 16 14:03:14 * awesomo4k ponders renting out his new shiny freerunner as a timeshare Jul 16 14:03:16 GPS is currently affected by a problem when the SD is accessed - it seems to lose or find it very hard to obtain - lock on satellites. There is a patch to turn off the clock to SD when not using it, but accessing SD will still disturb GPS. There is a hardware fix, but how this can be applied to units in the field is unclear at the moment. Jul 16 14:03:28 and then make your app launchable on the fso -> voila Jul 16 14:04:00 SpeedEvil, but i just ordered gta02....i was wondering as it it not in the first group of command command...will it get the fix... Jul 16 14:04:08 SpeedEvil, I was under the impression that the SD/GPS problem was mostly an issue during initial lock. Jul 16 14:04:16 mjr: i realize that, opengl and multimedia are what i know best though Jul 16 14:04:25 gmaxwell: seems not Jul 16 14:04:35 SpeedEvil: do you know if end users can apply the HW-fix themselves? Jul 16 14:04:47 gmaxwell: it's that it won't lock at all in many cases Jul 16 14:04:48 gmaxwell, depends a bit; in _practice_ many units will hold a lock even with interference pretty well Jul 16 14:04:59 i thought the freerunner had opengl acceleration, whats the gfx chip used for? Jul 16 14:05:02 gmaxwell: and any fix may be degraded quite badly Jul 16 14:05:03 beni_, he said it isn't clear Jul 16 14:05:09 kdub: swearing at. Jul 16 14:05:12 SpeedEvil, hmph. once mine locked (which um.. I think might have taken hours.. ;) ) it held it indoors and such. Jul 16 14:05:27 gmaxwell: units may vary Jul 16 14:05:42 SpeedEvil: haha, thats what it seems all graphics cards are for Jul 16 14:05:44 .oO(Personal note. Also buy a exacto knife when buying the freerunner. For sperating circuits on the pcb...) :) Jul 16 14:05:48 Got my FR!!!!! Jul 16 14:05:57 bentob0x: possibly - if you're confident with a SMD rework station, and 0201 components Jul 16 14:06:04 beni_: Jul 16 14:06:14 drop in a little capacitor.. all fixed. ;) Jul 16 14:06:20 kdub: unfortunately, the acceleration has been somewhat of a wash. Jul 16 14:06:22 bummer is that I have a Cingular (AT&T) 3G SIM that seems to have the issue...sigh Jul 16 14:06:35 going to try a coworker's T-mobile SIM when he gets in Jul 16 14:06:38 kdub: on the good side, it can decode mpeg-4 in hardware, and has a scaler unit. Jul 16 14:06:43 Xaos, it's one of the listed as bad sims? Jul 16 14:06:52 mine is it appears... Jul 16 14:07:07 kdub: on the horrible side, it has a 7 megabyte/second bus, shared by the SD card, which requires the CPU to wait while accessing it. Jul 16 14:07:08 anyone used gpsd/tangogps in ASU? it work alright? Jul 16 14:07:09 * beni_ doesn't have a SMD station Jul 16 14:07:09 Xaos, doh. Jul 16 14:07:11 I'll probably hit the AT&T store at lunch if I can and get them to get a new one Jul 16 14:07:11 :( Jul 16 14:07:17 oh, thats pretty good then. what's wrong with the gl acceleration? is the card not build for it? are drivers missing? Jul 16 14:07:34 SpeedEvil: the thats pretty good was for the mpeg4 Jul 16 14:07:48 kdub, missing drivers, and it really only supports 512x512 rendering buffers Jul 16 14:08:00 mpeg4 what? mpeg4 part 2? mpeg4 part 10 (h264)? Jul 16 14:08:01 kdub: So if you're transferring 3.5M/second of data to the video buffer, you lose 50% of the CPU Jul 16 14:08:16 gmaxwell: unsure - it's one codec IIRC Jul 16 14:08:40 mjr: is that the maximum texture size? why would they even bother? Jul 16 14:08:56 kdub, don't know about max texture size. It's really designed for qvga screens. Jul 16 14:09:15 kdub: it diddn't see that bad when it was specified. Jul 16 14:09:22 SpeedEvil, do you know how many %cpu is used in GTA01 to display graphics compared to GTA02 Jul 16 14:09:30 HauDyrArb: it's complex Jul 16 14:09:53 HauDyrArb: GTA01 uses a completely dumb framebuffer, so it has no hardware accell at all. Jul 16 14:09:54 kdub, at least at some point balrog-kun had some ambitions at some point about doing gl support (he did the mpeg4 bit), but in practice you'd switch to qvga mode if you'd want to use it Jul 16 14:10:34 I wish GTA02 had scrapped the GFX chip and simply included a faster SOC. Jul 16 14:10:35 (unless you can work around in hardware, rendering in two passes, which is ... nasty as well) Jul 16 14:10:35 HauDyrArb: but that framebuffer can be transferred to at some 80M/second, compared to 7M/second, and does not conflict with the SD. Jul 16 14:10:40 s/hard/soft/ Jul 16 14:10:40 mjr meant: (unless you can work around in software, rendering in two passes, which is ... nasty as well) Jul 16 14:11:02 SpeedEvil, aah less wait Jul 16 14:11:21 HauDyrArb: add to that that GTA01 has a slower processor. Jul 16 14:11:33 Damn, I was looking forward to the OpenGL apps Jul 16 14:12:01 Like somebody could make a Super Monkey Ball game where you tilt the neo to control it Jul 16 14:12:06 greetings forks Jul 16 14:12:09 i'm just confused at how they chose the graphics chip. it seems all but unusable Jul 16 14:12:10 FreeMonkey? Jul 16 14:12:24 GTA04 is currently tentatively pointed at a chip with inbuilt 2D accel, which should be quite adequate. And there is a 3D compatible model. Jul 16 14:12:29 kdub, you mean all but usable? Jul 16 14:12:32 kdub: there is not a lot of choice. Jul 16 14:13:02 SpeedEvil: I understand the iphone is using one of the arm SOCs which have DSP and FPU. :( Jul 16 14:13:04 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * re0b6e6b20cde 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-qtopia-x11.bb: [openmoko] Add assassin-thumbnail into ASU image Jul 16 14:13:16 * CaptObviousman needs someone to convince him to buy a FreeRunner with money that's destined for tuition Jul 16 14:13:37 Cap_J_L_Picard, OpenGL acceleration doesn't work Jul 16 14:13:53 also, there are problems with GPS when you insert an SWD card Jul 16 14:13:56 tunys: what i meant is, what can you use the "graphics chip" for? Jul 16 14:14:15 s/Cap_J_L_Picard/CaptObviousman/ Jul 16 14:14:17 CaptObviousman, books and school is for geeks, and working in McD is underrated :-) Jul 16 14:14:40 kdub, 2D acceleration Jul 16 14:14:44 Designing a phone in tiny volumes is horrible. Jul 16 14:14:51 And 1000-5000 is truly tiny. Jul 16 14:14:53 yep, 2d accel and that mpeg4 thing Jul 16 14:14:57 I see that the store is out of copies already, when's the next batch gonna come through? Jul 16 14:15:04 Most manufacturers won't talk to you for that volume. Jul 16 14:15:05 SpeedEvil: granted, i dont know a lot about the state of phone's graphics chips :P Jul 16 14:15:06 25th Jul 16 14:15:15 SpeedEvil: Do you work for FIC? Jul 16 14:15:24 CaptObviousman, you don't want one though Jul 16 14:15:32 I don't huh Jul 16 14:15:35 why don't I want one Jul 16 14:15:41 to pay tuition. Jul 16 14:15:42 also were someone to do the gl driver, it could still be nice for many gaming purposes, as a game can IMAO often deal with qvga on that size a screen Jul 16 14:15:43 Sargun_screen: no, I'm following the state of the electronics industry, and related stuff closely. Jul 16 14:15:49 SpeedEvil: isnt that the truth. hardware's so damn expensive to design Jul 16 14:15:52 You don't want to sacrifice tuition money for this thing. Jul 16 14:15:54 SpeedEvil, basically at bearstech there is 2 commands batch the first one and the second one....the first one receive their freerunner the third week of july...the second one receive their freerunner the first week of august...and i'm part of the second batch...will i have a chance to get my unit fixed? should i contact my shop? Jul 16 14:16:11 SpeedEvil: Why, if I may ask? Jul 16 14:16:21 Just as a hobby? Jul 16 14:16:39 He's a spy for Apple! Jul 16 14:16:41 :D Jul 16 14:16:58 it'd be kinda hard to help develop without one, wouldn't it Jul 16 14:16:58 Or another connected device provider. Jul 16 14:16:58 Sargun_screen: I'm currently not well enough to work - it's a hobby, which I hope to turn into an income not dependant on me being able to do 9-5. Jul 16 14:17:21 Interesting. Jul 16 14:17:31 Sargun_screen: currently most of my small disablement allowance is spent on boring stuff like roof repairs. Jul 16 14:18:06 who did you say was working on the ui? raster? Jul 16 14:18:07 CaptObviousman, another round of Neos will come around Jul 16 14:18:23 and they will have all sorts of new features Jul 16 14:18:34 and you'll probably have the spare money to actually get one Jul 16 14:18:35 kdub: raster is working on the drivers for the glamo, and low-level UI as I understand it. Jul 16 14:18:39 Cap_J_L_Picard: in some time. Jul 16 14:18:42 It would be nice if we could get the hardware to a point where a carrier would pick it up. Jul 16 14:18:50 Sargun_screen: it's not a hardware problem. Jul 16 14:18:53 SpeedEvil: Is the phone even profitable? Jul 16 14:18:57 Sargun_screen, s/hardware/software/ Jul 16 14:18:59 Hard/Software Jul 16 14:19:00 Sargun_screen: probably not Jul 16 14:19:07 SpeedEvil: does he hang out on irc? Jul 16 14:19:18 kinda curious, do the carriers hate this thing? Like does it spew noise onto their network on accident? Jul 16 14:19:18 kdub: occasionally Jul 16 14:19:45 CaptObviousman: No, but as the GSM chip's specs have been released it could be possible. Jul 16 14:19:46 CaptObviousman, the gsm chip is fully licensed and proprietary Jul 16 14:19:54 gmaxwell: Nice seeing you again. :-) Jul 16 14:19:58 CaptObviousman, nah.. no noise.. it's a pretty bog standard radio deck in it... but it might not enable the degree of lock in the carriers would prefer. Jul 16 14:20:01 Sargun_screen, Indeed. :) Jul 16 14:20:17 well they don't have much choice do they Jul 16 14:20:28 raster seems like the sort of nick that a graphics person would have :P Jul 16 14:20:42 CaptObviousman, The OM doesn't have a nice facility for them to make money selling you wallpapers and ringtones. Jul 16 14:22:05 aha, this is what I wanted. QEMU emulator Jul 16 14:22:17 CaptObviousman, an emulator emulator? Jul 16 14:22:27 * CaptObviousman swats lazily Jul 16 14:22:49 you don't really want qemu for most things Jul 16 14:22:57 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_Openness Jul 16 14:23:18 I'm just looking for a way to get involved in tihs thing and put off purchasing it for a little while Jul 16 14:24:19 gmaxwell, yeah, it tells you that it's emulating something Jul 16 14:24:28 it emulates an emulator! Jul 16 14:24:50 hah Jul 16 14:26:01 alright, so i think ill see what can be done with the fso... Jul 16 14:26:15 when OM boots which file contains the parameters for matchbox-window-manager and matcbox-panel-2? Jul 16 14:27:09 CaptObviousman, well, basically you can get involved by coding a cool app designed for a small 480x640 screen :) Jul 16 14:27:29 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_Openness < this says the wireless is Atheros AR6K I didn't think that was correct. Jul 16 14:27:45 well I need to see how it actually works first, look n' feel Jul 16 14:27:50 * LetoTo reloads the UPS tracker in the final two hours of his package delivery Jul 16 14:29:42 where's a guide for the fso for newbies? Jul 16 14:29:51 on the wiki ("FSO") Jul 16 14:30:05 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FSO <= Jul 16 14:30:45 Ainulindale: sorry to ask, the wiki search always takes me to bad places it seems :P Jul 16 14:31:19 Yep Jul 16 14:32:04 kdub, hopefully ill soon set a search engine up so you can search the site Jul 16 14:32:21 kdub, and no i am not the web admin Jul 16 14:32:45 I don't think that's the problem Jul 16 14:33:07 There should be more categories, more categorisation in fact, and people should be aware of that Jul 16 14:33:22 As an example I wrote the page on FSO but didn't think to put in any category Jul 16 14:33:30 Ainulindale, but still the search engine in the wiki sux Jul 16 14:33:38 Mostly yes Jul 16 14:33:52 But if we had more sensible categories it would be something better I think :-) Jul 16 14:34:32 And if you want to hate me I'm currently behind a proxy called "tide97.microsoft.com" Jul 16 14:34:36 Isn't it classy ? :-) Jul 16 14:35:05 Ainulindale, and i have a root server that is itching to do something :-) Jul 16 14:35:21 yeah, I poked around for the irc channel but the wiki search didn't find anything Jul 16 14:35:26 so I just started guessing networks Jul 16 14:35:38 CaptObviousman: it wasn't very hard :-) Jul 16 14:35:44 I tried oftc first Jul 16 14:40:09 Anyone found a way to dispel the keyboard in minimo ? Jul 16 14:41:49 Say 'I abjure thee.' Thrice, with your left hand pointed at the device, and the thumb curled over? Jul 16 14:41:55 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * r2c71fc82e76b 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/ (gsm/const.py modems/abstract/mediator.py): ogsmd: fix number type parsing Jul 16 14:44:54 my Neo won't turn on at all, not even to the NOR ROM, regardless if it's hooked to usb or not, and I've taken the battery out and in multiple times, but I just can't get it to turn on. can anyone help me? Jul 16 14:45:07 gmaxwell, did it work? ^^ Jul 16 14:45:38 nuclear_eclipse: did you push the button for several seconds ? Jul 16 14:45:43 yes Jul 16 14:45:49 nuclear_eclipse: I think I heard "leave it plugged into USB for a day" somewhere. Jul 16 14:46:03 nuclear_eclipse: could be a deeply-discharged battery - there's a known issue. Do you have any other batteries (like a Nokia BL-4C/BL-5C)? Jul 16 14:46:11 I tried having it plugged into my PC for an hour, but I still got nothing... Jul 16 14:46:13 spydon, No. Jul 16 14:46:24 and no, I don't have any other batteries to try Jul 16 14:46:30 speaking of funny motions... is there anyway I can see the accelerometer outputs? Jul 16 14:46:35 cjb: that was for gta01 Jul 16 14:46:40 mmontour: he said Neo Jul 16 14:46:58 He also said NOR :) Jul 16 14:47:18 oh. :) I wonder which was misspoke. Jul 16 14:47:23 yea.. if you fully discharge gta01 it's a pain to get it to come back.. leave it charging for a day and it will work again. Jul 16 14:48:07 AIUI the full names are "Neo Freerunner" and "Neo 1973", but this may have changed Jul 16 14:49:24 nuclear_eclipse: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/021556.html Jul 16 14:49:56 ah, so. Jul 16 14:59:16 anyong familiar with changing ringtones on the freerunner? It looks like it can't handle mp3s as ringtones Jul 16 14:59:19 can it handle ogg? Jul 16 14:59:26 I tried doing wav but it complained about that too Jul 16 15:00:00 What software are you using? Jul 16 15:02:40 mmontour: does this mean the Freerunner won't ever turn on without a functioning battery, even when plugged into usb? Jul 16 15:03:03 nuclear wessels! Jul 16 15:03:05 No, there's already a fix for that issue in the u-boot source tree. Jul 16 15:03:34 Of course you have to get your Freerunner to boot before you can apply that fix... Jul 16 15:03:38 but if I can't boot because my battery is discharged... Jul 16 15:03:40 arg Jul 16 15:04:37 The easiest approach is probably to find a friend or co-worker with a Nokia phone and borrow a battery. Jul 16 15:04:43 OK...my coworker's T-mobile SIM works as does another's older AT&T SIM... Jul 16 15:05:14 I've got another SIM from our cell phone guy that I'm going to try and if it works, I'll call AT&T and have them switch my number to it Jul 16 15:05:17 all my co-workers have razrs... :( Jul 16 15:05:26 anyone know what's happened to tangogps.org? Jul 16 15:05:30 fr won't boot w/o some charge in the battery w/o a uboot fix? Jul 16 15:05:36 Elleo: some sort of DNS problems. Jul 16 15:05:39 glad i got extra betteries Jul 16 15:05:58 is it possible to buy a spare battery directly from Openmoko? Jul 16 15:06:14 nuclear_eclipse: dunno, i bought the extras pack Jul 16 15:06:24 nuclear_eclipse: yes - the extras pack Jul 16 15:06:55 my "other" phone is a RAZR Jul 16 15:07:15 it's the one that has the SIM that I cannot get to work Jul 16 15:07:18 in the FR Jul 16 15:07:43 http://www.mauve.plus.com/tangogps_0.9.2-r1_armv4t.ipk Jul 16 15:07:48 looks like the car kit is out of the picture in the store Jul 16 15:08:01 is there any place to find a car kit? Jul 16 15:08:09 Elleo: latest bin Jul 16 15:08:11 Xaos: my sim that works in the fr did not work in my razr :) Jul 16 15:08:39 SpeedEvil: thanks :) Jul 16 15:08:40 thewtex: there was a car kit? Jul 16 15:08:50 hello, i've read a lot of mails about the gps/sd card but i didn't find the details on the hardware fix...could somebody point it to me so i can use them in a mail? Jul 16 15:09:07 AntonTakk: they planned one a long time ago with the 'extras kit' Jul 16 15:09:14 ah Jul 16 15:09:47 my GPS got a TTFF of 31 sec when standing on the north side of my 2-story house (south sky was blocked by house) last night Jul 16 15:09:52 a car charger would be nice Jul 16 15:10:26 yes, and a hook up to the stereo to silence it Jul 16 15:10:58 xaid|work: what sort? Jul 16 15:11:10 Gnutoo: I've never seen one Jul 16 15:11:20 Gnutoo: a specific component value Jul 16 15:11:51 thewtex: er, how would that work, minus a special stereo? Jul 16 15:12:29 thaw: the frerunner _sucks_ for making a dock for it. Jul 16 15:12:30 mmontour: does this charger seem appropriate for the Neo's battery? http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-BL-5C-Battery-Charger-for-Nokia-N70-6680-N91-6630_W0QQitemZ260260838513QQihZ016QQcategoryZ20336QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Jul 16 15:12:39 thewtex: i would think just try to make it compatible with the various in-car bt enabled hands free systems Jul 16 15:12:50 nuclear_eclipse: is there any good reason not to just use the neo? Jul 16 15:13:06 SpeedEvil, it's a capacitor as you said before...it should be remplaced by a wire? another capacitor? Jul 16 15:13:19 s/it should/should it Jul 16 15:13:19 SpeedEvil: it doesn't seem to be charging the battery at all, and it wont turn on Jul 16 15:14:01 unless I'm just not being patient enough? Jul 16 15:14:09 AntonTakk: most car stereos have a 'line mute' input, that will mute with a DC voltage applied Jul 16 15:14:59 nuclear_eclipse: take battery out Jul 16 15:15:05 nuclear_eclipse: wait 30 mins Jul 16 15:15:20 nuclear_eclipse: place battery back in, reconnect USB, wait a few hours Jul 16 15:15:25 ok Jul 16 15:15:35 nuclear_eclipse: this shoulg get it to a few tens of percent charge. Jul 16 15:15:49 nuclear_eclipse: yes, I think that ebay one would work. Jul 16 15:16:04 was that a "good" charger though? it would be nice to have some spares that I can charge while I'm using the Neo elsewhere.... Jul 16 15:16:13 ok, thanks mmontour Jul 16 15:16:26 nuclear_eclipse: a good charger will not charge the battery. Jul 16 15:16:49 nuclear_eclipse: only a bad cheapest charger that will charge any battery, and does not monitor the nokia batteries temperature. Jul 16 15:16:59 <- lost Jul 16 15:17:00 muh. Jul 16 15:17:10 well, I'm glad my FR can keep time. not :-( Jul 16 15:17:19 is now 12.49 Jul 16 15:17:19 Chocky: how much drift? Jul 16 15:17:25 more like a reset Jul 16 15:17:36 SpeedEvil: the ebay item he posted includes a couple of BL-5Cs as well as the charger, so he can at least charge one of them and use it to jump-start the Freerunner Jul 16 15:17:51 and if you adjust the time, it throws off the suspend timeout Jul 16 15:17:54 mmontour: ah Jul 16 15:18:06 and the screen dim is _way_ too quick. like 15 secs. Jul 16 15:18:32 SpeedEvil: is there an extrenal charger you recommend then if I were to purchase the batteries direct from Openmoko, so that I could maintain at least one fully charged battery outside of the Neo? Jul 16 15:18:44 More evil freerunner development today! Jul 16 15:18:48 Muwahahahaha Jul 16 15:19:55 Dave: are you still seeing that charger problem where the battery would charge fully and then start to discharge, all while still connected to USB? Or am I thinking of someone else's problem? Jul 16 15:26:00 mmontour yep Jul 16 15:26:14 mmontour, oh, but I did notice something interesting Jul 16 15:26:23 it seems to only happen when connected to a pc usb Jul 16 15:26:38 when plugged into the AC adapter it usually doesn't begin to discharge Jul 16 15:27:08 however, episodically, if I leave some freerunners charging via AC over night, I may wake up to have them very hot and shut off :[ Jul 16 15:28:15 hm, mediaplayer is really upset Jul 16 15:28:25 "Internal data flow erorr" Jul 16 15:28:29 er, error Jul 16 15:29:59 It no like you... Jul 16 15:30:18 Dave: it looks like the other bug (not turning on with a deeply-discharged battery) is now fixed, but I haven't seen any activity relating to the discharging-while-plugged-in one Jul 16 15:30:46 Mmontour, have you experienced that yourself, as well? Jul 16 15:31:20 No, I don't have a Freerunner yet. I'm asking because I want to update the "Freerunner Hardware Issues" wiki page later today Jul 16 15:31:29 Ah, good :) Jul 16 15:31:47 and what exactly has been "fixed" about the deeply discharged batteries issue? Jul 16 15:31:50 It sounds similar to Trac #1158, although that was reported on GTA01 Jul 16 15:32:09 I don't see how that could be *fixed* with software, unless the solution is simply to shut it off sooner :P Jul 16 15:33:06 Dave: how can I adjust the screen blank timeout? GTK daily. Jul 16 15:33:18 Dave: there's a series of patches to u-boot that let it boot from 100mA USB power, then negotiate the 500mA rate. Jul 16 15:33:38 Chocky, uhh Jul 16 15:33:43 mmontour: is that already available in the ialy images? Jul 16 15:33:51 mmontour, AH, excellent! Jul 16 15:33:54 s/ialy/daily Jul 16 15:34:10 not sure - it's quite recent so I wouldn't count on it. Jul 16 15:34:57 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-July/003799.html Jul 16 15:35:27 ty Jul 16 15:37:10 Dave: it'd be easier if you said you didn't know to my questions :p Jul 16 15:37:27 Okay :) Jul 16 15:37:33 I had recalled seeing it somewhere is all Jul 16 15:37:38 I don't recall though :( Jul 16 15:37:51 I've been breaking too much to remember where everything was originally :D Jul 16 15:37:53 more useful than not answering - I don't mind looking if I get a negatory Jul 16 15:37:53 Dave: so yo urecall, but you don't recall? Jul 16 15:38:07 * Chocky h5s Dave's honesty Jul 16 15:38:13 :P Jul 16 15:38:26 No, he recalls that he didn't recall Jul 16 15:38:28 * Dave slaps nuclear_eclipse around a bit with a large Chocky Jul 16 15:38:35 dishonest Dave Jul 16 15:38:38 ;) Jul 16 15:38:54 but Dave can't be honest if he's dishonest Jul 16 15:38:54 Oh no, the Guilt! Jul 16 15:39:04 Oh no, the Dave >;E Jul 16 15:39:15 Haha, Indeed! >:) Jul 16 15:40:01 There has to be at least one FIC employee here Jul 16 15:40:31 *has* to? is there punishment otherwise? Jul 16 15:40:41 Sargun: there are several, but they probably have better things to do than chat most of the time. Jul 16 15:40:46 there are. Not necessarily active ones at any one time. Jul 16 15:41:09 It'd be neat if I could get a device directly from them Jul 16 15:41:35 considering their US office is right across from a stop on my commuter train's route Jul 16 15:41:40 so, is openmoko going to have an IPO at some point? Jul 16 15:41:44 Azalyn, no. Jul 16 15:41:54 going to remain private? Jul 16 15:41:55 Azalyn: it's a division of FIC now. Jul 16 15:42:06 FIC is a public company, I think. Jul 16 15:42:09 what? i thought it spun off from fic Jul 16 15:42:17 Oh. I'm confused, then. Jul 16 15:42:21 FICkle Jul 16 15:42:23 i remember reading that openmoko went independent Jul 16 15:42:51 odd. when was that? Jul 16 15:42:53 strange Jul 16 15:44:11 I don't think they are independent. Jul 16 15:44:28 http://www.embeddedstar.com/weblog/2008/01/02/foss-open-source/ Jul 16 15:44:32 They are, however, awesomependent! Jul 16 15:45:02 this seems to suggest they're independent :\ Jul 16 15:45:05 Azalyn: oh, that's interesting. Pretty sure FIC still owns them, though. Jul 16 15:46:19 yeah it's FIC's subsidiary, afaik Jul 16 15:47:02 hi Jul 16 15:47:28 huh, I'm really not sure now. It does look pretty independent. Sorry, Azalyn, totally missed that. Jul 16 15:47:52 where I can submit some bug reports for openmoko-mediaplayer2? Jul 16 15:48:33 goldie83_: projects.openmoko.org? Jul 16 15:48:55 It would be neat to just get the GSM/GPRS stuff on a serial/USB board Jul 16 15:50:02 nuclear_eclipse, posted there alreeady, but I thing as the wrong component - set to System Software Jul 16 15:50:10 can someone tell me which file contains the parameters (startup) for matchbox-window-manager and matcbox-panel-2? Jul 16 15:52:24 blah. ssh doesn't recover from suspend, AFAICT Jul 16 15:53:02 uh oh ;-) Jul 16 15:53:04 hi Michael Jul 16 15:53:51 You don't have to yell Michael, I'm all around you. Jul 16 15:54:01 lol Jul 16 15:54:14 :D Jul 16 15:56:47 hmmm Jul 16 15:56:50 i don't know if the submit was correct - may you look at this report and say, that all is allright? - http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1596 Jul 16 15:56:51 Dave: hey hey hey Jul 16 15:56:52 goodwill! Jul 16 15:57:05 MS so quiet. Jul 16 15:57:12 Dave: I giiittt me a fancy flashligh ;) Jul 16 15:57:26 s/flashligh/flashlight Jul 16 15:57:40 Yay! Jul 16 15:58:26 goodwill: Jul 16 15:58:27 https://www.fenix-store.com/ Jul 16 15:58:50 SpeedEvil: I was refering to FR Jul 16 15:59:00 SpeedEvil: :) Jul 16 15:59:42 Ah Jul 16 16:00:45 nuclear_eclipse: no idea Jul 16 16:01:11 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rd5d0fadee4fb 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/channel.py: Jul 16 16:01:11 freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: allow unsolicited message to also begin with Jul 16 16:01:11 freesmartphone.org: * 'R'(ING), Jul 16 16:01:11 freesmartphone.org: * 'C'(ONNECT), and Jul 16 16:01:11 freesmartphone.org: * 'N'(O CARRIER) in ogsmd.gsm.DelegateChannel. Jul 16 16:01:13 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r769cec8b6b8c 10/ (4 files in 2 dirs): ogsmd: [OPENEZX] add basic call handling Jul 16 16:01:31 bam! Jul 16 16:01:33 Chocky: Try installing gst-plugin-apetag - gstreamer can't handle mp3s having that tag otherwise and gives "internal data error" Jul 16 16:01:45 hm. Jul 16 16:02:01 so much for dependencies :p Jul 16 16:02:09 so much for simplicities Jul 16 16:02:18 worse, it was working yesterday. Jul 16 16:02:23 so much for Daves Jul 16 16:02:36 yeah Jul 16 16:02:43 I killed them all, and ate their souls. Jul 16 16:02:48 MetaDave Jul 16 16:02:55 The Dave. Jul 16 16:03:07 Dave wut ate Tokyo Jul 16 16:03:12 on Dave to eat them all? Jul 16 16:03:17 s/on/one/ Jul 16 16:03:17 nuclear_eclipse meant: one Dave to eat them all? Jul 16 16:03:21 haha, something like that Jul 16 16:03:26 apt, shush Jul 16 16:03:27 Fine, I'll shut up. Jul 16 16:03:33 apt, quieter Jul 16 16:03:51 apt: show me the money Jul 16 16:03:52 hmm... show me the money is what? I ain't gonna show you nothing, you pervert motherfucker. Jul 16 16:03:58 so rude! Jul 16 16:04:15 pfft, hardly Jul 16 16:05:57 ok I got synergy running on OM, much easier typing, though the pointer is missing Jul 16 16:06:07 goodwill: nice :) Jul 16 16:06:26 nuclear_eclipse: its pretty easy Jul 16 16:06:30 Would this http://www.amazon.com/Female-Mini-Male-Adapter-Shipping/dp/B000Y6UL5E/ref=sr_1_1/104-7028655-9767166?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1216224297&sr=1-1 work if you want to plug in normal USB stuff into the freerunner? Jul 16 16:06:30 I saw synergy in the repo, but I didn't have time to test it Jul 16 16:06:48 nuclear_eclipse: ompkg install synergy and then stadard synery stuff Jul 16 16:06:53 goodwill: I use Synergy daily between my two desktops Jul 16 16:07:06 and on my laptop at school Jul 16 16:07:24 :] Jul 16 16:07:30 I am going to need some kind of craddle for om Jul 16 16:07:37 :-( Jul 16 16:07:38 Yeah! Jul 16 16:08:05 nuclear_eclipse: tjhe flippy part is when I start using it over internet Jul 16 16:08:16 rockabye freerunner Jul 16 16:08:55 goodwill: I had only planned to use it over usb, but it would be handy once I got wifi up too Jul 16 16:09:46 Indeedy! Jul 16 16:09:47 spydon: hope so :o Jul 16 16:10:13 Chocky, hehe me too :P Jul 16 16:11:11 Hi guys. Jul 16 16:11:26 hi Lo-lan-do Jul 16 16:11:40 spydon looks good.. even if one would have a short cable and eventualy a 90 degree sideways plug for better mechanical stability Jul 16 16:11:45 I've been reluctant to remove the plastic film on my FR so far (in case I had to return it for repairs), but now I'm wondering hos scratchproof the actual screen is. Jul 16 16:11:52 Any hints on that? Jul 16 16:12:03 yes, a cable adapter would be better. Jul 16 16:12:21 i.e. like the one supplied with it, but with female on the end Jul 16 16:12:23 roh, yeah Jul 16 16:12:50 moko moko moko Jul 16 16:13:13 Lo-lan-do: is it a scratch proof film? Jul 16 16:13:36 nuclear_eclipse: if you set it on wifi and do not ssh tunnel it, everyone will eb able to type on it ;) Jul 16 16:13:50 goodwill: unless it's the client.... Jul 16 16:14:03 nuclear_eclipse: right Jul 16 16:14:05 major moko mojo daveo Jul 16 16:14:06 nuclear_eclipse: nm now Jul 16 16:14:07 goodwill: Not really, but I hope it at least protects the screen. Jul 16 16:14:11 :P Jul 16 16:14:12 Hah! Jul 16 16:14:20 * Dave shines his medals Jul 16 16:14:42 is it normal for phone to power when I plugin usb Jul 16 16:14:49 goodwill: yes :( Jul 16 16:15:23 I don't remember the reason, but I remember someone saying it was intended behavior... Jul 16 16:15:27 WOO HOO!!! Got a new SIM from our guy at work and am now registered on AT&T network with my FR!!! Now to see if it makes phone calls. ;-) Jul 16 16:15:33 so shouty Jul 16 16:15:37 man I need some screen protectors Jul 16 16:15:43 Xaos, good luck :p Jul 16 16:15:54 I DON'T KNOW WHY WE'RE YELLING!!! Jul 16 16:15:55 goodwill, eventually, yes. Jul 16 16:16:02 EVERYONE'S DOING IT! Jul 16 16:16:09 OMG THE PEER PRESSURE IS SO INTENSE! Jul 16 16:16:37 http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Screen-Protector-OPenmoko-Neo1973_W0QQitemZ180265712050QQihZ008QQcategoryZ20336QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Jul 16 16:16:42 yeah I saw Jul 16 16:17:01 Dave: I don't know what type of 'pressure' you're getting from your peers, but please, keep it to yourself :P Jul 16 16:17:37 YEEEEHA!!!! Just made my first FR phone call! THAT'S WHY I'M YELLING!!! ;-) Jul 16 16:17:50 WOW!!! AWESOME!!! :P Jul 16 16:17:54 Calm down. Jul 16 16:17:59 ok. Jul 16 16:18:00 * Dave confiscates Xaos's SIM card Jul 16 16:18:11 Dave: you can have my old one! Jul 16 16:18:13 ;-) Jul 16 16:18:13 There, no more excitement for you, for ten minutes. Jul 16 16:18:17 haha, no thans Jul 16 16:18:21 I've got a bucket full :p Jul 16 16:18:23 what are thans? Jul 16 16:18:50 thanks Jul 16 16:18:51 no hands? Jul 16 16:18:56 hah Jul 16 16:18:58 kless thanks Jul 16 16:19:01 sometimes media player doesn't start at all. fnar Jul 16 16:19:01 Xaos: congrats! amazing isnt it Jul 16 16:19:08 and I still get that error. Jul 16 16:19:11 donomo: yep...sure is! Jul 16 16:19:35 my lame unboxing video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8-wyukZsCs Jul 16 16:19:42 now to just pull all my contacts off my razr and transfer them (keeping a backup of course)...and get that 8GB microSD Jul 16 16:19:43 ;-) Jul 16 16:19:53 error, maximum temperature threshold tripped Jul 16 16:19:56 phone is on fire Jul 16 16:19:56 XorA: what carrier? Jul 16 16:19:58 Kernel Panic! Jul 16 16:20:10 "Failed to connect stream: Invalid argument" Jul 16 16:20:12 Xaos: You've seen the contact migration scripts, I assume? Jul 16 16:20:38 (Import from SIM or Vcards) Jul 16 16:21:03 Lo-lan-do: no...I haven't even started looking yet...got a link? Jul 16 16:21:04 SpeedEvil: thanks for the info, my FR is back on now Jul 16 16:21:31 Xaos: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Import_Vcf_Contacts and http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Import_Sim_Contacts Jul 16 16:21:31 ahhh...so...now I need to get them off my RAZR and into vCards it appears Jul 16 16:21:45 Lo-lan-do: thanks! bookmarked Jul 16 16:21:47 Lo-lan-do: woot, thanks for the link Jul 16 16:22:01 Unless they're on your SIM already, but then you'll probably want to edit them to add more info. Jul 16 16:22:33 Or maybe it's just my prehistoric SIM that doesn't accept non-ASCII chars or names longer than 12 chars or tags/categories or... Jul 16 16:22:37 nope...all on the phone so I can store the additional info (email, etc.) Jul 16 16:22:59 * Chocky tries GPS again :o Jul 16 16:24:24 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r52244595910f 10/packages/ (4 files in 3 dirs): [qtopia] Add a openmoko/ASU specific ring profile setting Jul 16 16:25:00 * Chocky gets nuttin' outta GPS Jul 16 16:25:37 Chocky: I was only able to get GPS to work after I took out my SD card. I couldn't even get it to pull the time from GPS otherwise.... Jul 16 16:25:51 no SD csrd Jul 16 16:25:55 it worked one time last night Jul 16 16:25:59 but not today Jul 16 16:26:03 hmm Jul 16 16:26:19 when you get your phone is it best to charge the battery straight out or can I play with it a little? :) Jul 16 16:26:29 both Jul 16 16:26:44 Chocky: do those work? Jul 16 16:26:58 "those" ? Jul 16 16:27:38 nuclear_eclipse: that's a known issue Jul 16 16:27:54 yeah, I just thought I'd reiterate :P Jul 16 16:27:54 I still have not gotten a GPS lock Jul 16 16:28:09 Speaking of GPS and time... i'd love a HOWTO synchronise the internal clock with GPS signals :-) Jul 16 16:28:45 Lo-lan-do: +1 Jul 16 16:28:59 FR is upright, and window faces South. hm Jul 16 16:29:01 Also, strange thing... the date displayed on the "home" screen changes at 23:00 rather than at midnight, for some reason. Jul 16 16:29:17 daylight saving badness Jul 16 16:29:44 Chocky: scree protectors Jul 16 16:29:48 Chocky: screen protectors Jul 16 16:29:55 goodwill: beats me. Jul 16 16:30:06 all I know is that my screen is real dirty Jul 16 16:30:29 anyone? Jul 16 16:30:41 doc|home: I answered "both" Jul 16 16:31:03 can't be both Jul 16 16:31:21 doc|work: play with it while it's plugged in charging ;) Jul 16 16:31:39 really? I'd have thought that wouldn't be good for the battery Jul 16 16:31:42 Chocky: Strange, since the clock is correct. Jul 16 16:31:58 doc|work: that's what I did at least :P Jul 16 16:32:26 perhaps. Jul 16 16:32:54 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rae399a28725a 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/ (gsm/channel.py modems/openezx/channel.py): ogsmd: allow channels to install their own parser Jul 16 16:32:55 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r2cf598f448d2 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/parser.py: ogsmd: implement ThrowStuffAwayParser that just does that :D Jul 16 16:32:55 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r59708ce54905 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/openezx/channel.py: Jul 16 16:32:56 freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: [OPENEZX] use ThrowStuffAwayParser for MiscChannel until we find out how to supress unsolicited responses within Jul 16 16:32:59 freesmartphone.org: request/response processes Jul 16 16:34:21 hm, GPS lock now. took some minutes Jul 16 16:34:27 for setting the loading amperage: http://hdr.meetr.de/neo/screenshots/battery_01.png http://hdr.meetr.de/neo/screenshots/battery_02.png http://hdr.meetr.de/neo/openmoko/battery.py Jul 16 16:34:54 mofomokomojo Jul 16 16:35:13 gpsmofo Jul 16 16:35:58 * Chocky dances a GPS tango Jul 16 16:37:18 HdR, you can charge at 1000ma? Jul 16 16:37:55 ok, I am going to need to setup my local compile as a repo Jul 16 16:38:20 Dave: did you manage to replace the OM default keyboard with matchbox one? Jul 16 16:38:58 Gnutoo: yes Jul 16 16:39:30 HdR, wow...i thought the stock charger could only charge at 500mA Jul 16 16:39:32 Gnutoo: with gta02 and a charger, witch supports it ;) Jul 16 16:39:41 *which Jul 16 16:39:48 HdR, ah ok you need a special charger... Jul 16 16:40:01 Gnutoo: the om charger support 2A afaik Jul 16 16:40:11 HdR, wow ok thanks a lot Jul 16 16:40:17 goodwill, yep Jul 16 16:40:25 Charger does. FR will draw only 1A though. Jul 16 16:40:28 goodwill, it was no problem after you built me the packages :) Jul 16 16:40:35 Dave: instructions please Jul 16 16:41:03 MESQUITE, Jul 16 16:41:03 TX, US 07/16/2008 3:38 A.M. ARRIVAL SCAN Jul 16 16:41:06 * Stroller yawns Jul 16 16:41:09 Morning all Jul 16 16:41:15 wiki/Switching_Keyboards :) Jul 16 16:41:27 Dave: thanks Jul 16 16:41:28 HdR: cool. Could you make this also gta01 aware? Nice little tool. Much better locking than settingsGUI Jul 16 16:41:34 :) Jul 16 16:42:40 DPThought: i have no gta01 :/, does settingsgui support setting the charing manuelly? Jul 16 16:43:14 HdR: yes. But rather flimsy. gta01 has just different sysf files AFAIK. Jul 16 16:43:30 HdR: and no 1000mA mode. Only 500mA Jul 16 16:43:43 DPThought: ha ok Jul 16 16:45:04 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r33bfc12d5036 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-asu-feed.bb: [openmoko-asu-feed] Remove diversity-nav from asu-feed. Jul 16 16:45:05 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * ra66a270155bb 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-asu-feed.bb: [openmoko-asu-feed] Bump up PR of asu-feed to force rebuild Jul 16 16:45:06 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r530be8c0961d 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [opkg] Bump up the reversion of opkg to 4528 Jul 16 16:45:06 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r2e25091383f8 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [assassin] Bump up the reversion of assassin to 195 Jul 16 16:45:09 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rb1949e56f3db 10/packages/openmoko-projects/assassin_svn.bb: [assassin] Remove curl in DEPENDS of assassin Jul 16 16:45:12 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rc33b87bc3e85 10/packages/packagekit/ (files/repository-ping.patch packagekit_git.bb): [packagekit] Add a patch to packagekit. Jul 16 16:45:15 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r7b297f1a083e 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [assassin-thumbnail] Bump up the reversion of assassin-thumbnail to 4529 Jul 16 16:45:18 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r39c1d1e81d05 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-qtopia-x11.bb: [openmoko] Add assassin-thumbnail into ASU image Jul 16 16:45:31 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rb097fcd2e265 10/packages/ (4 files in 3 dirs): [qtopia] Add a openmoko/ASU specific ring profile setting Jul 16 16:47:00 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r8589f67abc2d 10/odeviced/src/plugins/input/input.vala: Fix segfault in input plugin Jul 16 16:47:39 autocenter doesn't do anything obvious in tangogps Jul 16 16:49:26 linuxr: took about 12 hours to get from Mesquite to Denton Jul 16 16:52:02 * Chocky wonders if he has a bad GPS solder connection :o Jul 16 16:52:04 hi.. a question.. how much is probably an umts version of neo freerunner? Jul 16 16:52:22 a jallion dollars. Jul 16 16:52:35 good :) Jul 16 16:52:46 I'm not sure the question makes much sense by itself. Jul 16 16:52:55 It does. Jul 16 16:52:58 why? Jul 16 16:53:16 The answer is probably $100000 for a batch of 5000. Jul 16 16:53:40 + at least 9 months lead time Jul 16 16:53:43 it presumes one is to be made, and that some actually planning has been done, including accouting for engineering, etc, etc. Jul 16 16:54:00 so infinite dollars could be accurate Jul 16 16:54:04 And $100000 is a very low figure Jul 16 16:54:04 ah ok.. Jul 16 16:54:11 Neglecting dev time. Jul 16 16:54:27 i've searched on the site if there's a "public release date" about this topic Jul 16 16:54:29 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r731de7d42939 10/packages/qtopia-phone/ (3 files in 3 dirs): [qtopia] Use packagearch all for the openmoko profile data Jul 16 16:54:35 but i've not found anything Jul 16 16:54:40 and so i'm here :) Jul 16 16:54:49 and that open versions of suitable hardware exists, etc, etc. Jul 16 16:54:52 The problem is that it's really complex - there are many 3G standards worldwide. Jul 16 16:54:53 and more etcs. Jul 16 16:55:10 And that phone chipset makers will simply not talk to you at 'low' volumes - 5K Jul 16 16:55:16 SpeedEvil: ah ok.. Jul 16 16:56:07 it's like asking "how much will it cost to fly to the nearest planetary system?" no complete set of technologies exist to do it. Jul 16 16:56:24 nearest other than our own ;-) Jul 16 16:56:42 Chocky: that's basically wrong - throw enough money at this problem,and it's simple. Jul 16 16:56:44 Chocky: ok ok understand :P Jul 16 16:56:46 * Chocky waits for holes in his analogy Jul 16 16:57:01 Chocky: if you commit to a large order, the phone chipset makers will talk to you and help. Jul 16 16:57:15 SpeedEvil: it's not "basically wrong", thanks. money can make the technology happen of course. I never said it was impossible Jul 16 16:57:21 keep up in the back Jul 16 16:57:37 It's basically wrong in that a complete set of technologies exist, and it's off-the-shelf. Jul 16 16:57:42 sigh. Jul 16 16:57:44 How difficult would it be to modify the OpenMoko design to work with something like this: http://www.telit.com/en/products/cdma.php?p_id=13&p_ac=show&p=16 Jul 16 16:57:44 whoosh. Jul 16 16:57:50 that's the sound of you missing the point. Jul 16 16:58:10 SpeedEvil: there is the problem of openness - you might have to BUY a chipmaker in order to get them to allow you to publish the chip specs openly Jul 16 16:58:12 Sargun: quite - that's a comparatively large part - assuming it's a 3G module Jul 16 16:58:31 Sargun: is it open? Jul 16 16:58:33 Stroller: it's not _quite_ that bad. They will talk to you if you order lots. Jul 16 16:58:45 Sargun: and it's expensive. Jul 16 16:59:13 Sargun: you want something like this http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/11/21/review_vodafone_mobile_connect_modem/ Jul 16 16:59:25 Connect via USB & Bob's your mother's brother Jul 16 16:59:28 The reason why I say this Jul 16 16:59:40 snip snip, Bob's your aunty Jul 16 16:59:41 Stroller, Why do you think I want that? Jul 16 16:59:41 But, really, edge is good enough for most people Jul 16 16:59:58 Sargun: because you're asking after a 3G unit Jul 16 17:00:07 Stroller, When did I say that? Jul 16 17:00:18 The telit one you link to won't fit inside the case Jul 16 17:00:38 Sargun: you asked "How difficult would it be to modify the OpenMoko design to work with something like" Jul 16 17:00:42 I assume Sargun meant a redesign. Jul 16 17:00:45 Sargun: a USB dongle is easier Jul 16 17:00:49 Rather than hacking it in. Jul 16 17:00:50 But I never specified 3G. Jul 16 17:00:59 replace the battery with a smaller battery + 3G stuff :o Jul 16 17:01:28 Chocky: because who wants more than 10 munutes of standby anyway :) Jul 16 17:01:37 correct. Jul 16 17:01:38 lol Jul 16 17:01:40 SpeedEvil, I say it because they have the module in two flavors: GSM, and CDMA. Jul 16 17:01:41 hm. does the shipped free runner include a usbserial driver and pppd? Jul 16 17:01:53 gmaxwell: yes Jul 16 17:02:04 gmaxwell: though I'm unsure of the usbserial on reflection. Jul 16 17:02:21 SpeedEvil, spiffy, if so I can use my usb EVDO card with it. ;) Jul 16 17:02:21 how does capacity of FR battery compare to for example iPhone or other smartfones? Jul 16 17:02:27 gmaxwell: yup. Jul 16 17:02:28 Battery life at teh moment is very much a work in progress. Currently suspend is broken, so you get 6-12 hours depending on what's on. The hardware appears capable of doing a week standby, with 20 hours mp3, and 5 hours+ talk time. Jul 16 17:02:39 * Chocky spots SpeedPaste Jul 16 17:02:56 SpeedEvil, Then the OpenMoko could work with multiple networks easily. Jul 16 17:03:42 CDMA-1xRTT 3?G <--- 1xRTT is NOT 3G. Jul 16 17:04:36 Sargun: that module is 30*42*6 - counting connectors and mounting hardware, which is about 10% of the volume of the GTA02 Jul 16 17:04:53 Archimedes test Jul 16 17:04:53 I had around 11 hours runtime on mine yesterday when I found that I'd left it on in my bag and plugged it in... Jul 16 17:04:59 Sargun: plus, it's much more costly than putting it ont your own board. Jul 16 17:05:24 Sargun: I'd expect that to put $100 on the price, and a couple of milimeters on the thickness. Jul 16 17:05:42 SpeedEvil, a removable RF deck would be nice for other applications though.. but you're obviously right about the cost/space factors. Jul 16 17:07:26 How'd it go, goodwill? Jul 16 17:07:45 Chocky: tnxu for answering my question.. see u Jul 16 17:07:56 gmaxwell: that doesn't work. Jul 16 17:08:17 gmaxwell: adding modules never works like you might expect at first. Jul 16 17:09:27 gmaxwell: You've got extra cost and volume and unreliability in having to oversize the bay for other stuff, in fixing hardware to make it so that the devices don't fall out, in making the slot user accessible, in selling it to users, in user-proofing the interface, in software integration, ... Jul 16 17:09:39 Let's just replace it all with GNUradio and a bunch of software! Jul 16 17:09:58 Xaos, GSM/CDMA aren't open Jul 16 17:09:58 Xaos: and a backpack to hold the battery. Jul 16 17:10:04 GSM is open. Jul 16 17:10:11 Xaos: 3 ???? Jul 16 17:10:15 I know...I was joking... Jul 16 17:10:16 Xaos: 4 Profit! Jul 16 17:10:21 oh, yeah, nevermind. Jul 16 17:10:24 Chocky: exactly! Jul 16 17:10:43 Xaos, You laugh, but I've already plugged USRP into my FR. ;) .. though ... without a FPU it's simply not going to do anything useful.. alas. Jul 16 17:10:59 just because we're think the FR is totally awesome as it is doesn't mean we can't work to improve it Jul 16 17:11:17 FR isn't totally awesone ;p Jul 16 17:11:20 gmaxwell: LOL...and very cool Jul 16 17:11:21 still requires mucho work Jul 16 17:11:34 yes, but it has potential awesomeness Jul 16 17:11:41 yessir. Jul 16 17:12:01 ok, GPS figured out where I _really_ was. Jul 16 17:12:04 dunno how much time it took Jul 16 17:12:04 and it IS awesome...I can make phone calls and it's running linux so I can install all sorts of crap on it... Jul 16 17:12:13 * Chocky welcomes crap Jul 16 17:12:54 although there's way too many annoying games in the daily GTK image Jul 16 17:13:03 Xaos: When I first got my GTA01 the dialer didn't work.. but you could make calls by sshing into the phone and using a terminal app to bang the GSM modem around. I was very excited. People looked at me strangely. Jul 16 17:13:12 gmaxwell: hardcore. Jul 16 17:13:25 gmaxwell: cu + terminal let it be portable. Jul 16 17:13:35 you'd still get strange looks for a $400 phone that has incomplete software. Jul 16 17:13:43 gmaxwell: i did this at zurich airport cause my primary phone was empty Jul 16 17:13:47 hi - i am a casual observerconsidering buying and developing for fr/openmoko. I have been following the development for a long time and I believe the hype, but i think there is one major problem that openmoko has and that is lack of support for opengl. people are just going to start developing for android Jul 16 17:13:52 omgpnwies!11 it's more expenisve than iPhone! Jul 16 17:13:54 gmaxwell: that's funny...I probably wouldn't enjoy that as much but I can appreciate it...of course, that's because my wife really wants my RAZR to replace her dying phone Jul 16 17:14:00 (looked at me strangely because I was carrying around my laptop teathered to it so I could dial!) Jul 16 17:14:11 ROTFLMAO Jul 16 17:14:14 repeter: best you get started :o Jul 16 17:14:15 copter Jul 16 17:14:48 * Chocky will sell you his wife's dying RAZR ;p Jul 16 17:14:49 it's pink! Jul 16 17:14:53 repeter, ... I'm sorry, but most people here probably believe that opengl is insignificant compared to simply being useful as a basic pda/smartphone/mediaplayer. Jul 16 17:15:15 gmaxwell: yes, but if he wants it, then he should do it. everyone has different priorities Jul 16 17:15:18 you will get that with android phones with the api Jul 16 17:15:23 repeter, the Android vaporware has already slaughtered a sizable amount of development interest, simply by virtue of the google name. Jul 16 17:15:45 I think Android is a joke, personally, but FR should be able to complete with its alleged features Jul 16 17:15:54 opengl is where android beats openmoko - and i think it will kill openmoko Jul 16 17:15:54 Chocky, sure. I welcome all to work on what interests them. :) Jul 16 17:16:02 it is the last thing i want to see Jul 16 17:16:05 opengl is _quite_ irrelevant. Jul 16 17:16:06 OM it's going to be "killed" Jul 16 17:16:10 er Jul 16 17:16:11 *chuckle* Jul 16 17:16:13 s/it's/isn't Jul 16 17:16:19 no it isnt Jul 16 17:16:19 opengl is polish. Jul 16 17:16:22 if OM's going to get killed, it's _not_ because of OpenGL Jul 16 17:16:24 (at this time) Jul 16 17:16:28 SpeedEvil: thought it was Danish Jul 16 17:16:28 OpenGL is polish. Jul 16 17:16:34 there will be a new generation of 3d apps that people will want Jul 16 17:16:38 OpenGL (hardware) is polish Jul 16 17:16:39 repeter: When can I buy an android phone? ;) Jul 16 17:16:40 as soon as they start appearing Jul 16 17:16:40 yes, but FR needs lots of polish Jul 16 17:16:44 repeter: do you have a constructive reason for joining this channel? Jul 16 17:16:46 repeter: 3d how? Jul 16 17:17:00 what can 3d add to a phone? rotating cubes? Jul 16 17:17:04 First the software has to exist - and for that software openGL is just fine. Jul 16 17:17:08 yes - i dearly want to see openmoko work Jul 16 17:17:16 doc|home: who knows. that's not the point ;-) Jul 16 17:17:28 * Chocky senses some animosity Jul 16 17:17:29 Especially with tiny - 640*480 screens - and comparatively fast processors. Jul 16 17:17:30 repeter, Contributions welcome. ;) Jul 16 17:17:32 Chocky: I know that there are far higher priority than rotating cubes Jul 16 17:17:46 *priorities Jul 16 17:17:58 repeter: well coming in here saying "Android's gonna kill Openmoko, OpenGL is essential" isn't going to provide anything beneficial to the conversation Jul 16 17:17:59 its not rotating cubes its accelerometer based 3d apps Jul 16 17:18:01 * gmaxwell waits for the demo that displays a cube that holds still while you rotate the phone around it. ;) Jul 16 17:18:10 doc|home: priroties are a matter of opinion, and clearly my own are very different to rotating cubes, but this is was OSS is about Jul 16 17:18:17 s/was/what/ Jul 16 17:18:18 Chocky meant: doc|home: priroties are a matter of opinion, and clearly my own are very different to rotating cubes, but this is what OSS is about Jul 16 17:18:34 and in terms of marketing, rotating cubes can be important Jul 16 17:18:44 esp. if the public focus is indeed Android Jul 16 17:19:02 Chocky: android doesn't have rotating cubes Jul 16 17:19:05 people will all want slick 3d apps soon Jul 16 17:19:09 and he still hasn't said why it's important Jul 16 17:19:11 well then, that's a leg up ;-) Jul 16 17:19:17 look at the iphone Jul 16 17:19:17 repeter: what apps can be done in 3d? Jul 16 17:19:19 accelerometer-based 3d apps? You mean a marble madness game? Jul 16 17:19:25 repeter: we're not running blender on the thing Jul 16 17:19:26 repeter, but they may want a working phone/pda/mediaplayer first. .. ;) Jul 16 17:19:28 if someone is a graphics expert/haxx0r, then more power to them. Jul 16 17:19:39 people are working on the other stuff. it's all good. Jul 16 17:19:51 not everyone is able to poke at the kerenl for power saving stuff. Jul 16 17:19:57 not write python. Jul 16 17:19:59 nor Jul 16 17:20:09 uggh Jul 16 17:20:19 nor write C :o Jul 16 17:20:21 fucking pg Jul 16 17:21:07 Chocky, well. just about everyone *could* learn to do those things. ;) Jul 16 17:21:20 with application of gun/money, perhaps :o Jul 16 17:21:39 the only question is what is repeter's contribution, other than having an opinion. Jul 16 17:21:50 my preferred method of interaction with my technology is the terminal. but the mass market will want nice shiny wobbly spinny apps when they start getting used to them from other phones - eg iphone Jul 16 17:21:54 repeter: did you look at the licenses of most of the android software(but the linux kernel)...it's not copyleft...so the manufacturer of the phone won't give you the sources Jul 16 17:22:11 Chocky, contribution? To remind us how poisonous the Google android vaporware has been. Jul 16 17:22:11 i know Jul 16 17:22:19 sigh. Jul 16 17:22:21 but they will allow people to program 3d apps Jul 16 17:22:27 whoosh! Jul 16 17:22:28 which is what will get the market Jul 16 17:22:42 repeter: so what are you able to do to improve the matter for FR? Jul 16 17:22:53 Note to self: disable "dim+lock" when making a phone call, otherwise you'll miss bits. Jul 16 17:23:09 i want openmoko to win over androis - but it won't happen without everyone being able to program 3d apps Jul 16 17:23:22 why the hell would even joe regular users want to use 3d accelerometer controlled apps? (not games, apps) Jul 16 17:23:28 * Chocky repeaters the question Jul 16 17:23:31 * mmontour is holding out for 4-D hypercube-based apps on his phone Jul 16 17:23:32 SpeedEvil, would that space addition be required even with the stripping out of the GPS? Jul 16 17:23:57 * Chocky suggests everyone take a moment and step back from their warn cosy Linux shell. Jul 16 17:24:00 what does being 3d accelerometer controlled give to the user besides frustration and confusion? Jul 16 17:24:03 warm Jul 16 17:24:12 so much anger! Jul 16 17:24:25 it's like a channel full of Daves Jul 16 17:24:27 mjr, even more exciting ways for the phone to behave when you leave it unlocked in your pocket. ;) Jul 16 17:24:43 gmaxwell: nice :D Jul 16 17:25:05 repeter: you're still missing my question. Are you _personally_ proposting to do any development that will help 3D on FR? Jul 16 17:25:10 porposing Jul 16 17:25:17 sigh. Jul 16 17:25:44 porpoising? Jul 16 17:25:58 * SpeedEvil crashes through the waves, squeeking. Jul 16 17:25:58 yes, sounds fishy Jul 16 17:26:01 gmaxwell, point, a killer feature right there Jul 16 17:26:08 i want to develop all sorts of stuff. i am willing to donate a lot - i can just see where, if things carry on their current course, openmoko will lose to android Jul 16 17:26:08 3d streetview gps for instance? Jul 16 17:26:08 'whizzy' scrolling through your music collection? Jul 16 17:26:08 doom? Jul 16 17:26:08 network 3d games Jul 16 17:26:10 etc etc. its the tip of the iceberg Jul 16 17:26:12 course, it could be said that the "gotta have 3d" mindset without the effort to back it up is why we have a useless graphics chip wasting space in the FR... Jul 16 17:26:35 repeter: I guessing I'm wasting my time asking again. Jul 16 17:26:45 Sargun: GPS uses very little space - the chipset - the problem is the antenna - small antennas are available. Jul 16 17:26:46 right now, you're just telling others what to do Jul 16 17:27:01 repeater is imagining the holy merger of wiimote and openmoko. :) .. but it's really easy to invent with big concepts like that, much harder to do the actual work. Jul 16 17:27:25 Hypothetically, if you didn't have the debug interface, how would you go about reading the NAND/SDRAM/NOR Flash Jul 16 17:27:34 i can't improve the matter with regards to opengl except to try to evangelise for either a loosening of the NDA of development of drivers by prople in openmoko Jul 16 17:27:43 people Jul 16 17:27:46 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rf4f65c9a22de 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/ (3 files in 2 dirs): ogsmd: [OPENEZX] more call handling tweaks Jul 16 17:27:48 well, that's something. Jul 16 17:28:02 the point is that insisting that others do stuff isn't going to curry much favor. Jul 16 17:28:09 repeter, go bug the smedia people then Jul 16 17:28:17 repeter, because of the bus issues even if there were not NDA issues with the graphics chip it would not be useful for your imagined 3d future. Jul 16 17:28:33 * Chocky demands 2.5D Jul 16 17:28:48 Could you read the NAND/SDRAM in circuit? Jul 16 17:28:58 Sargun: ? Jul 16 17:28:58 hello all, does anyone know how to avoid losing the SSH connection during dropbear upgrade? Jul 16 17:29:02 smedia aren't going to loosen things if they have a load of deals with more proprietry companies Jul 16 17:29:05 Sargun: of course, what do you mean? Jul 16 17:29:06 I can't complete my "opkg upgrade" Jul 16 17:29:11 A 512*512 frame is 786432 bytes.. can't cram many of those down a 7mbyte/sec bus per second. Jul 16 17:29:16 opkg install dropbear >/dev/null 2>&1 & Jul 16 17:29:23 SpeedEvil, Let's say I wanted to read the NAND/SDRAM from my dash. Jul 16 17:29:32 SpeedEvil, how would I go about doing it Jul 16 17:29:34 but the bus will get faster as openmoko matures... Jul 16 17:29:41 Sargun: oh - dash. Jul 16 17:29:47 will still drop, but it'll complete properly Jul 16 17:29:52 Sargun: A) find firmware mode that lets you do it. Jul 16 17:29:57 repeter, are you high? Jul 16 17:30:00 Can't do it in software. Jul 16 17:30:01 Sargun: B) Open it up and attach lots and lots of probes. Jul 16 17:30:04 its a matter of getting people developing things - prepare for a few years down the line Jul 16 17:30:18 Sargun: the probes are expensive. Assuming it uses friendly packages to probing. Jul 16 17:30:22 :) i wish Jul 16 17:30:29 Sargun: and attach a logic analyser. Jul 16 17:30:31 SpeedEvil, It uses the same Samsung stuff as the FR Jul 16 17:30:39 Sargun: that's not quite relevant. Jul 16 17:30:40 repeter: sorry, bossing people isn't going to work. Jul 16 17:30:46 i am not bossing Jul 16 17:30:48 repeter: the chip is already operating way beyond its expected capacity Jul 16 17:30:52 Chocky: thanks Jul 16 17:30:53 The same flash chips. Jul 16 17:30:57 i can't find the info on the wiki... can someone tell me if the FreeRunner is capable of doing GSM 1900? Jul 16 17:31:03 Sargun: the important bit is what package teh chips are in Jul 16 17:31:05 you are in effect - insisting people do stuff without any real contribution yourself. Jul 16 17:31:05 Wakko666: yes Jul 16 17:31:07 Wakko666: yes, on all versions Jul 16 17:31:12 i am just stating my position Jul 16 17:31:14 no Jul 16 17:31:17 yes. Jul 16 17:31:20 great... thanks. Jul 16 17:31:23 repeter, fine, you want 3d stuff a few years down the line, start developing. Nobody's stopping you. Perhaps then we have half a chance of an open phone that can do a third of what you want hardware-wise Jul 16 17:31:23 * Chocky has been here _many_ times Jul 16 17:31:34 Sargun: if they are in BGA - the connections are underneath them, so you have to remove it and make it an adaptor. Jul 16 17:31:38 SpeedEvil, Well, I was wondering how difficult it would be to desolder the flash, and interface it with something else? Jul 16 17:31:51 Sargun: you mean to read the flash contents? Jul 16 17:31:57 SpeedEvil, yeah Jul 16 17:32:10 Sargun: quite easy - any flash programmer device will do that. Jul 16 17:32:32 Sargun: you then desolder the chip, solder it onto a small board plugged into the programmer, and job done. Jul 16 17:33:15 SpeedEvil, FBGA Jul 16 17:33:41 people like the iphone because of the slick graphics. it will be the same when some android phones start appearing with opengl - people will start buying them and a lot of developers who could have benn developing for openmoko will develop solely for android because the slick graphics gets joe public Jul 16 17:33:48 yes, enough already Jul 16 17:33:52 Sargun: Not really impossible to resolder, but you can't DIY - or you don't want to the first time. Jul 16 17:34:07 we understand the point, repeating it for the 10th time is just annoying Jul 16 17:34:07 rep: tehy won't fucking care about openGL if the applications are not ther. Jul 16 17:34:11 SpeedEvil, I might be able to get a friend who works at Maxim to desolder it Jul 16 17:34:13 ok Jul 16 17:34:17 it's very simple. if you want it, you'll need to do something about it Jul 16 17:34:21 repeter, yes, let's see how 3d-glitzy their music player will be, shall we. For now, you've stated your piece. Jul 16 17:34:22 SpeedEvil, he deals with SMT all the time Jul 16 17:34:34 ok - thanks for listening :) Jul 16 17:34:51 Sargun: It's not especially hard - there may be sockets for flash programmers to do that. Jul 16 17:35:00 Sargun: or you may need to buy/make a little PCB Jul 16 17:35:22 * Chocky is all about opinion and everyone having a contribution, but there comes a time when you need to STFU and do something concrete. Jul 16 17:35:49 me included ;-) Jul 16 17:35:55 ooh la la Jul 16 17:36:07 * Chocky makes an exception for Dave Jul 16 17:36:48 kelvie: ping? Jul 16 17:36:49 somene want to wikify that dropbear stuff? Jul 16 17:36:49 I don't know what we're talking about, but Excellent! Jul 16 17:36:51 oh especially opinion on fuzzily-justified beliefs about future fads Jul 16 17:37:00 heehee, fuzzily Jul 16 17:37:04 yes your Excellency Jul 16 17:37:09 >:) Jul 16 17:38:39 fuzzy logic Jul 16 17:40:50 dropbears! Jul 16 17:40:52 hoenoes Jul 16 17:40:54 SpeedEvil, Its that or figure out how to JTAG this thing Jul 16 17:41:15 better than jellybears Jul 16 17:41:51 Sargun: Find someone with a xray inspection device. Get an image, to trace teh JTAG traps. Jul 16 17:44:15 That seems....difficult. Jul 16 17:44:35 Sargun: Who told you this was easy? Jul 16 17:50:19 is it possible to pair bluetooth devices with the openmoko from the command line? Jul 16 17:50:26 yes Jul 16 17:50:30 google for Jul 16 17:50:40 openmoko wiki using bluetooth manually Jul 16 17:50:53 I am, pretty miffed Jul 16 17:51:01 thanks :) Jul 16 17:51:04 Just had my Freerunner delivered 5 minutes ago Jul 16 17:51:18 SpeedEvil, remember I bought it from the US store? Jul 16 17:51:19 and you haven't opened it yet, but had to come tell us :p Jul 16 17:51:36 very geek Jul 16 17:51:36 StealthCP: no Jul 16 17:51:45 well anyway Jul 16 17:51:49 heh, I didn't think, or expect, £60 tax and handling charge Jul 16 17:52:01 StealthCP: UPS? Jul 16 17:52:02 bringing the total for this phone somewhere near £350 :P Jul 16 17:52:04 yep Jul 16 17:52:16 StealthCP: that sucks :( Jul 16 17:52:19 StealthCP: well - you should have paid VAT - 17.5% and duty - 6% Jul 16 17:52:21 ups = ass Jul 16 17:52:22 rip-off Britian Jul 16 17:52:25 er, Britain Jul 16 17:52:31 rip-off ups Jul 16 17:52:35 Duty is 2%, isn't it? Jul 16 17:52:35 Or 24% Jul 16 17:52:48 I thought it was 6%, I may be wrong Jul 16 17:52:59 StealthCP: now you should know for future when importing from the US Jul 16 17:53:01 well, let's see Jul 16 17:53:08 of course. Jul 16 17:53:28 Well, I'm not too worried, I'm happy with my purchase, whatever the money Jul 16 17:53:33 Why did you buy from the US, StealthCP? Did you want the US GSM bands? Jul 16 17:53:42 and the 850 model will be more useful to me, as I go to the US every year Jul 16 17:53:53 yep, pretty much Jul 16 17:54:19 Gotya Jul 16 17:54:27 Nothing you could have done, then. :/ Jul 16 17:54:30 900MHz isn't used by some UK networks. Jul 16 17:54:34 t-mobile for one. Jul 16 17:54:44 I've just bought an Orange Pay and Go Sim. Jul 16 17:54:53 The deal worked out well for me, and they only use 1600Mhz Jul 16 17:54:53 I think orange use 900. Jul 16 17:55:03 nope. not on their gsm Jul 16 17:55:08 k Jul 16 17:55:29 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r67103241c731 10/ (18 files in 6 dirs): ogsmd: rename openezx modem to freescale_neptune Jul 16 17:55:34 t-mobile didn't look very good either Jul 16 17:55:35 but the don't use 1600 mhz Jul 16 17:56:02 ok, let's see.. Jul 16 17:57:26 StealthCP: t-mobile are good in the UK - for data Jul 16 17:57:38 StealthCP: 2.50 for 5 days unlimited. Jul 16 17:57:45 o.O Jul 16 17:57:51 * doc|work shakes fist at rogers Jul 16 17:58:09 Orange has much better coverage, GSM and 3G Jul 16 17:58:28 T-Mobile do not provide 3G at all in Northern Ireland with the exceptions of Belfast, the main city Jul 16 17:58:49 Well regardless, both use the 1800 band, my mistake Jul 16 17:58:49 http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/cou_gb.shtml Jul 16 17:58:54 that's fine though, Jul 16 18:03:10 * DaveLab shakes his fist at pg Jul 16 18:03:35 pg? Jul 16 18:04:11 pregnant? Jul 16 18:04:17 postgres? Jul 16 18:04:27 porn gratis? Jul 16 18:04:27 pretty girl? Jul 16 18:04:44 porn gratis would definitely have him "shaking" his "fist" Jul 16 18:04:58 good grief. Jul 16 18:05:10 does anyone know off-hand how I can interact with the multi-color LED? Jul 16 18:05:12 I thought it might be Paul Graham Jul 16 18:05:13 Charlie Brown? Jul 16 18:05:22 Python Grits Jul 16 18:05:28 (I've heard rumors it exists, so I might be asking a bad question) Jul 16 18:05:43 google's being a tad unhelpful for now :( Jul 16 18:06:10 Yasumoto: the leds on the freerunner you mean ? Jul 16 18:06:32 Ainulindale: exactly Jul 16 18:06:34 blinkenlights++ Jul 16 18:06:47 Yasumoto: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/022051.html Jul 16 18:06:56 (and the corresponding thread) Jul 16 18:07:07 Yasumoto: i made a few scrips some time ago, let me see if i can find them Jul 16 18:07:09 Ainulindale: sweetness. Thanks a million :) Jul 16 18:07:23 * LetoTo got his phone :) Jul 16 18:07:30 feitingen: really? that'd be really helpful Jul 16 18:07:48 Is there a good scripts repository in the wiki or somewhere where everyone can upload their's for public consumption? Jul 16 18:07:57 YEAH! LetoTo! Jul 16 18:08:05 yes, the wiki itself, Jul 16 18:08:09 * DaveLab throws a blob at doc Jul 16 18:08:10 Yasumoto: well, it was basically in the style of the script in the link Jul 16 18:08:12 And it's "theirs" Jul 16 18:08:22 feitingen: ah, kk Jul 16 18:08:24 thanks Jul 16 18:08:29 I'm finding some stuff in the thread too Jul 16 18:08:40 feitingen: thanks though Jul 16 18:08:46 fingers running faster than brain today...CAUSE I'M PLAYING WITH MY FR!!!!! Jul 16 18:08:47 without the "sleep" part and ran twice for two colors, was fun to watch Jul 16 18:08:53 Yasumoto: you're welcome Jul 16 18:08:55 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * re67feb4522f6 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): ogsmd: use +COPS with two parameters, works on more platforms Jul 16 18:08:59 * DaveLab sends Xaos SIGTRANQ Jul 16 18:09:04 LOL Jul 16 18:09:20 there Jul 16 18:09:23 now you will calm down >:) Jul 16 18:10:34 * CaptObviousman investigates this freesmartphone.org thing Jul 16 18:10:59 I'm calm...really I am....BUT I LOVE THIS DEVICE!!!! IT'S SOOOOO COOL!!!! Jul 16 18:11:04 ;-) Jul 16 18:11:09 CaptObviousman: Daaah, don't do that, it'll be dead soon enough :-) Jul 16 18:11:11 seems calm to me Jul 16 18:11:15 hehe Jul 16 18:11:26 anyone get iwconfig with a wep key to work ? Jul 16 18:11:36 mickeyl: by the way Jul 16 18:11:45 Did you think about multiple SIM cards on FSO ? Jul 16 18:11:57 (the API obviously) Jul 16 18:13:24 awesome: yes, if you update your kernel Jul 16 18:13:44 default image doesn't do it. Jul 16 18:14:09 awesomo4k, wep just kicks an error at me. :( Jul 16 18:14:21 gmaxwell: me too Jul 16 18:14:34 * Chocky uses the awesome strong encryption that is WEP at home Jul 16 18:14:43 Ainulindale: Well, API-wise there is nothing that would prevent using two SIMs. We just need to adjust the object paths where we call our options on and remove some hardcoded assumptions that there is a max. of 2 calls in the system etc. Jul 16 18:14:48 Wire equivalent privacy! Jul 16 18:14:54 * SpeedEvil also uses WEP. Jul 16 18:14:57 With actual wires. Jul 16 18:15:01 mickeyl: Yes, but what about pin registration ? Jul 16 18:15:07 there is a cheap iClone that takes 2 sims. Jul 16 18:15:09 SpeedEvil: umm how to do that? Jul 16 18:15:09 Would you launch another daemon ? Jul 16 18:15:15 (I'm just curious) Jul 16 18:15:30 if we want to do that, we need to add some logic Jul 16 18:15:35 QuerySimCards -> ao Jul 16 18:15:38 Because I suppose that if there's two SIM, there's two gs0710muxd Jul 16 18:15:44 no Jul 16 18:15:45 oh that was a joke . ha . Jul 16 18:15:52 Oh ? Why is so ? Jul 16 18:15:54 SIM is only the access, it doesn't mean you have two modems in there Jul 16 18:15:59 wep is fine as long you can only authenticate to a vpn as soon as you get on the ap Jul 16 18:16:08 if we really have two individual modems, then we need to have two low level daemons, right Jul 16 18:16:09 for some phones, you can get an adapter which lets you physicall plug in both and switch between the two Jul 16 18:16:10 Ok so you could physically register to two networks on the same GSM antenna ? Jul 16 18:16:23 so the phone only sees one at a time Jul 16 18:16:29 Ainulindale: antenna, yes Jul 16 18:16:35 Ainulindale: however, you'd need two radios Jul 16 18:16:48 T-t-t :-) Jul 16 18:16:56 You understood what I said, however in dumb words Jul 16 18:16:58 WEP is fine as long as everyone in the neighborhood is clueless. not certain, but possible. Jul 16 18:17:22 why must people stray from perfectly good standards!? uggh Jul 16 18:17:27 * CaptObviousman doesn't run wireless at home, but would probably use openvpn instead of wep/wpa Jul 16 18:17:32 * mickeyl has an open network at home Jul 16 18:17:41 awesomo4k: depends on what your security needs are though... for many uses an open wireless net is quite fine Jul 16 18:17:52 I think when I set it up ages ago, WPA wasn't working on all my devices. Jul 16 18:17:56 and CBA to change it Jul 16 18:18:16 mickeyl, it sure makes testing with mobile/new devices a hell of a lot easier ;) Jul 16 18:18:42 gta02 has 3 different distros already. FSO is the one i should be working on right? and it does wep? Jul 16 18:19:04 latest GTK is the most functional righ tnow Jul 16 18:19:06 awesomo4k: You almost certainly want 2007.2 Jul 16 18:19:16 DaveLab: *nod* Jul 16 18:19:17 2007.2 == GTK, btw Jul 16 18:19:28 gtk as in gnome toolkit ? Jul 16 18:19:32 yes Jul 16 18:19:36 no, gimp toolkit :þ Jul 16 18:19:40 as in the non-qtopia daily build Jul 16 18:19:41 oh yeah right Jul 16 18:19:46 speaking of gimped out things Jul 16 18:20:04 i have run gimp for 10 years now. i should have remembered Jul 16 18:20:11 an is a newer version of what you have rightnow Jul 16 18:20:13 as Jul 16 18:20:16 er, as in Jul 16 18:20:21 whee Jul 16 18:20:27 I can't believe it Jul 16 18:20:30 is there a one-step "from-the-phone" update Jul 16 18:20:32 blinking LEDs Jul 16 18:20:35 awesome Jul 16 18:20:38 thanks guys :) Jul 16 18:20:46 RICE IT HARDER! Jul 16 18:20:47 might be of interest http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080715-googles-android-platform-not-so-open-after-all.html Jul 16 18:20:49 mickeyl: oh, another question Jul 16 18:21:03 If I use methods such as SendAuthCode Jul 16 18:21:11 Will I be able to use GetAuthStatus right after that ? Jul 16 18:21:18 awesomo4k: you can opkg upgrade, but it takes a bit of poking. Jul 16 18:21:26 * Chocky should document that process Jul 16 18:21:45 prodding Jul 16 18:21:48 i removed my keyboard to put the full qwerty on today and broke it b/c of freetype lib Jul 16 18:21:50 tazing Jul 16 18:21:55 * Chocky insists upon "poking" Jul 16 18:22:10 * DaveLab persists in tranquilizing Xaos Jul 16 18:23:15 Ainulindale: absolutely. Jul 16 18:23:30 Ainulindale: the API is more or less stateless Jul 16 18:23:36 i.e. most of the functions you can call all the time Jul 16 18:23:51 you better listen for the status signals though Jul 16 18:23:56 you don't want to poll all the time Jul 16 18:23:57 * Chocky tires of pasting together URLs that bitchx breaks up Jul 16 18:24:40 mickeyl: But does it make sense to, say, call the GetAuthStatus method just after the SendAuthCode method ? Jul 16 18:24:47 openandroid.com seems to be a parked site .. for sale Jul 16 18:24:57 * Xaos gets groggy...collapses into a heap on the floor Jul 16 18:24:58 Ainulindale: that depends on the control flow of your application Jul 16 18:25:06 you need to see two things Jul 16 18:25:28 1.) if SendAuthCode returns with OK, chances are everything is good Jul 16 18:25:43 2.) you will get an AuthStatus signal once auth status changes Jul 16 18:25:45 well, that only confirms my opinion about Android Jul 16 18:26:08 they never released source for their vm so openmoko got left out from the start.. can't trust that... Jul 16 18:26:13 mickeyl: yep, but say the SendAuthCode has a bad pin Jul 16 18:26:26 Isn't the method supposed to return true ? Jul 16 18:26:30 Or its call Jul 16 18:26:31 hmm, my phone turned on when I plugged it into the charger for the first time - is this normal? Jul 16 18:26:35 (No return value as I see it) Jul 16 18:26:39 as in a full boot up Jul 16 18:26:43 StealchCP : mine did too Jul 16 18:26:47 Ainulindale: no return value does _not_ mean no errors! Jul 16 18:26:51 it kinda surprised me :) Jul 16 18:26:55 :P Jul 16 18:27:02 I wanted to save the first boot for later Jul 16 18:27:07 It is merely indicative of shitty programming. Jul 16 18:27:10 mickeyl: Yep that's what I was saying Jul 16 18:27:14 StealthCP: for your youtube video? Jul 16 18:27:15 right. Well I've turned it off, will it still charge? Jul 16 18:27:17 stealthcp - kinky Jul 16 18:27:24 Ainulindale: ok, let me try for you on my SIM Jul 16 18:27:27 give me a second Jul 16 18:27:28 No return value, so I have to either wait for the status or check it Jul 16 18:27:45 no Jul 16 18:27:48 nah, I was tempted to record the process of opening the whole thing up and writing my first program and so on, but no-one's interested Jul 16 18:27:49 read again Jul 16 18:27:57 well, wait a second Jul 16 18:27:58 StealthCP, it will charge Jul 16 18:28:14 mickeyl: Hmm I must have misunderstood something Jul 16 18:28:17 it's as bad as the "I just bought Mario Kart Wii" threads that bombed the forums on the games release Jul 16 18:28:38 This phone is a private luxury, I've had to pay dearly for it Jul 16 18:28:39 StealthCP: i'm interested. Jul 16 18:28:44 what is your dev environment? Jul 16 18:29:04 StealthCP: someone died? Jul 16 18:29:26 >:) Jul 16 18:29:34 * DaveLab laughs evilly Jul 16 18:29:42 doc|work, not really, but I've been kicked out of the house for that Jul 16 18:29:42 there's definitely hurdles but compared to things like getting a qualcomm dev. license its still... better? (hope) Jul 16 18:29:47 * doc|work has a hit out on the UPS person who delayed his freerunner for a day Jul 16 18:30:07 StealthCP: kicked out? Jul 16 18:30:09 :D Jul 16 18:30:26 * awesomo4k sees headline: Man Goes Homeless For Neo FreeRunner Jul 16 18:30:30 mickeyl: (I'm just looking for best practices by the way) Jul 16 18:30:33 awesomo4k: haha Jul 16 18:31:02 I was lent money to go towards a ticket for the Oxegen concert from my parents, even after telling them I didn't need it, I had payed it off, but they insisted, so I put it towards a Freerunner, they found out about 15 minutes ago, and I'm sitting in McDonald's currently, using their free WiFi on my EeePC Jul 16 18:31:03 [[Will drop pants for Freerunner] Jul 16 18:31:04 I'm just waiting to see how many people come up and ask me what that elongated hockey puck of a device is Jul 16 18:31:05 damn, I missed all the fun... I had auto join off.... Jul 16 18:31:46 It's pretty much like I stole a gold brick and am on the run, but I feel the conclusion has been pretty dramatic Jul 16 18:31:49 Xaos, whore :p Jul 16 18:31:52 StealthCP: oxegen in Ireland? Jul 16 18:32:02 Stealth, blog it, baby! Jul 16 18:32:05 yup. Which I've just returned form on Monday Jul 16 18:32:07 or create a wiki page Jul 16 18:32:12 StealthCP: hahaha Jul 16 18:32:19 I have to say it was quite the experience too :P Jul 16 18:32:36 Returning to the real world has been quite the downward turn Jul 16 18:32:37 * DaveLab starts one on Nefarious Freerunner Uses Jul 16 18:32:55 StealthCP: you should have said you put your money to the freerunner and then spent the money they gave you paying off the ticket Jul 16 18:32:57 Isn't it always ;) Jul 16 18:32:57 StealthCP ... your parents should be proud of you. you admirably traded money for a fleeting music festival to advance the sciences. they should be buying your mcdonalds Jul 16 18:32:58 Ainulindale: here we are Jul 16 18:32:59 technicalities++ Jul 16 18:32:59 http://rafb.net/p/1Sd16D30.html Jul 16 18:33:09 xD Jul 16 18:33:11 as you can see, you get a nice error, if the SIM PIN is not accepted :) Jul 16 18:33:20 More carginogen sticks please! Jul 16 18:33:22 I mean, fries. Jul 16 18:33:30 heh, ok, how long should I leave this in the charger for? Jul 16 18:33:39 mickeyl: Oh, okay Jul 16 18:33:44 I work in this McDonald's, so I can stay till 11 if desired Jul 16 18:33:45 mickeyl: Didn't see that that way Jul 16 18:33:51 it's off the wall charger, first charge Jul 16 18:33:52 StealthCP: I got too sick of oxegen/witnness, went to the first one, 2nd one,4th one and one before this one. Last one was my last one. People were set on fire in their tents ffs. Jul 16 18:33:53 took mine out to the bar last night and got asked if it was a new gameboy Jul 16 18:33:56 We have a couple of methods without return values, but they can raise errors fine Jul 16 18:34:10 mickeyl: so where could I see the potential errors ? Jul 16 18:34:21 ah, that's unfair Jul 16 18:34:28 Yep. I happened to own a tent that was set on fire. Jul 16 18:34:30 StealthCP: started out with a great atmosphere the first year and has been going downhill ever since. Jul 16 18:34:34 i did not have time to do the error specification :/ Jul 16 18:34:42 StealthCP: be happy you weren't inside it Jul 16 18:34:43 mickeyl: I would have guessed :-) Jul 16 18:34:45 and got pick pocketed twice, they got nothing though, and one of them got a nice headbutt Jul 16 18:34:52 StealthCP: good work Jul 16 18:34:57 thanks Jul 16 18:34:57 scumbags Jul 16 18:34:58 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner#Charging_the_Neo_Freerunner Jul 16 18:35:05 I ask if there is a typo Jul 16 18:35:10 1000mA? Jul 16 18:35:48 because below it then mentions charging times at 100mA, and I'm not fully sure what um, power it charges at Jul 16 18:36:02 StealthCP: I was wondering about that as well Jul 16 18:36:20 StealthCP: Both values are valid charge rates Jul 16 18:36:29 StealthCP: that seems right Jul 16 18:36:30 StealthCP: 100 mA is the "slow charge" on both gta01 & 02 Jul 16 18:36:36 "all three values"? Jul 16 18:36:48 mickeyl: So I suppose I'll have to explore the sources ? Jul 16 18:36:50 500 mA is fast_cccv on gta01 & valid on 02 Jul 16 18:36:59 StealthCP: no, that's right. Using the wall-charger Jul 16 18:37:04 and 1000 mA (1A) is supahfast! (TM) rate on FR Jul 16 18:37:14 Ainulindale: yes. most error handling is generic though, it sits in one method, translating from CME and CMS errors into DbusErrors Jul 16 18:37:16 when using the supahfast! (TM) FR charger Jul 16 18:37:22 for all others you have to check the mediator.py file Jul 16 18:37:29 wurp2|work, elaborate Jul 16 18:37:31 and scan for self._error() calls Jul 16 18:37:36 wth is the supahfast! (TM) FR charger? Jul 16 18:37:37 StealthCP: ? Jul 16 18:37:45 The charger you get with the phone Jul 16 18:37:53 and some BS I injected to make it exciting! (TM) Jul 16 18:37:56 oh, god stuff Jul 16 18:37:59 mickeyl: would you be so kind as to point me out to the sources ? Jul 16 18:38:05 Or am I asking too much ? :-) Jul 16 18:38:05 so it'll only take about an hour to fully charge? Jul 16 18:38:08 *deer eyes* Jul 16 18:38:31 http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=framework.git;a=blob;f=framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/error.py;h=6c503f47b736ad48cea1c343d7a8eb537cad1e5a;hb=e67feb4522f606f9567dcfaf19ba5bb4cb90c90c Jul 16 18:38:35 overview for errors Jul 16 18:38:47 http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=framework.git;a=blob;f=framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/abstract/mediator.py;h=4293e536465caab99015e94b5ed5901feec5b940;hb=e67feb4522f606f9567dcfaf19ba5bb4cb90c90c Jul 16 18:38:59 check for self._error here Jul 16 18:39:04 that should get you started Jul 16 18:39:05 My hero ! :-) Jul 16 18:39:21 at your service. Jul 16 18:39:38 mickeyl: As we'll advance in our project though (which is pretty well defined I think), I would be glad if you looked at it again and give your advice Jul 16 18:39:57 Ainulindale: what project is it... i'm a pythoneer Jul 16 18:39:59 mickeyl: because as we moved from a wrapper to a daemon replacing phone-kit for calls Jul 16 18:40:06 We moved from python to C Jul 16 18:40:21 (in order to be able to copy easily old phonekit UIs) Jul 16 18:40:47 sure thing. i can take a look, but not before next week. things are kind of hectic here atm. Jul 16 18:40:58 No problem with that Jul 16 18:41:22 hey all... is there a SIP client that can work with the freerunner ? Jul 16 18:41:24 Ainulindale: what is your project? Jul 16 18:41:43 SHR port of phone-kit Jul 16 18:41:51 SHR ==? Jul 16 18:42:04 Stable Hybrid Release Jul 16 18:42:22 ~SHR Jul 16 18:42:23 i guess shr is Stable Hybrid Release, a combination of the FSO, some of the 2007.2 GTK software, and the ASU that provides all of the functionality of the 2007.2 software, but with the stability of the FSO. See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Stable_Hybrid_Release Jul 16 18:42:38 oh sweet jeezus... another distro ? Jul 16 18:42:49 * awesomo4k 's head asplodes. Jul 16 18:43:08 One distro to rule them all. Jul 16 18:43:27 reading now... i think i like your idea with this one the best so far... you're integrating the best from each of the existing? Jul 16 18:43:33 yes Jul 16 18:43:51 perfect. i was secretly jealous of parts of all the distros and was hoping someone would do that Jul 16 18:44:08 ok, if I was reflashing the phone with more up to date software / an image / etc. can someone recommend where to start? Jul 16 18:44:20 I thought SHR was the agreed upon way forward(tm)... Jul 16 18:44:31 StealthCP -- using the eepc ? Jul 16 18:45:02 FSO is the way forward AIUI Jul 16 18:45:10 yup. I'll be using that. It is running an up to date Linux distro Jul 16 18:45:22 SHR is a 'lets' se how fast wer can get it hacked togehter' Jul 16 18:45:23 I am not running X, so I'll need to use console tools if possible Jul 16 18:45:24 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko Jul 16 18:45:44 openmoko: 03mickey * r4530 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-appmanager2/ (ChangeLog configure.ac): openmoko-appmanager2: fix libopkg test Jul 16 18:46:29 I remain unconvinced of the utility of FSO or Qtopia. There's still a lot that could be done with the GTK software. Jul 16 18:46:31 in short, get a an image, put the phone in flash mode by holding AUX and pressing power, then use dfu-util to transfer Jul 16 18:46:34 openmoko: 03zecke * rd355f641ba29 10/src/server/phone/callscreen/semithemed/callscreen.cpp: [callscreen] On the first outgoing call allow to queue a number Jul 16 18:46:34 openmoko: 03zecke * rf929be99911d 10/etc/themes/finxi/callscreen.xml: [theme] Change the callscreen theme so Show Keypad and End Call are next to each other Jul 16 18:46:54 dlowe: aye Jul 16 18:47:29 awesomo4k, what should I go for? Stable? Daily images? Jul 16 18:47:34 SpeedEvil: That's what it is for the first release, but we do hope to slow down & make it more "right" as time goes on. And, in fact, so far we're not doing anything code-wise that is a rush job on SHR Jul 16 18:47:50 SpeedEvil: No matter how much I've tried to make that happen, there's always a reason we have to do it right ;-) Jul 16 18:47:54 I want things to work a lot, but an old image, or the one that's on it might have some things missing, right? Jul 16 18:48:11 SpeedEvil: Although the release process will be very much a "let's see how fast we can hack it together" :-/ Jul 16 18:48:16 StealthCP: daily is best. Jul 16 18:48:34 doesn't mean it all works of course Jul 16 18:48:37 * lpotter wishes people would stop calling ASU qtopia... Jul 16 18:48:53 Well I'll do daily and update perhaps twice a month or so Jul 16 18:48:58 ASU is clearly GEM based. Jul 16 18:48:59 they're the same thing right? :-P Jul 16 18:49:05 * Chocky laffs. Jul 16 18:49:06 Don't want to wear out the flash memory Jul 16 18:49:21 lpotter: I don't blame you ;-) Jul 16 18:49:55 Fire! Jul 16 18:50:03 I'm guessing with the wall charger, at 1000mA, I charge this thing for what, an hour? Jul 16 18:50:10 StealthCP: about that Jul 16 18:50:12 light entertainment... http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950 Jul 16 18:52:47 macdonalder: thx for the link :) Jul 16 18:52:56 macdonalder: that's a nice one indeed Jul 16 18:53:26 I don't always agree with Torvalds, but he has a very good point there Jul 16 18:53:30 linus is starting a flame war with that one Jul 16 18:53:35 good Jul 16 18:54:11 likewise, Linus is _important_, but no more so than other people who are important Jul 16 18:54:18 meh, I'd always fix security bugs before other bugs Jul 16 18:54:59 that depends what you are trying to secure I suppose Jul 16 18:55:05 my sanity Jul 16 18:55:19 my interest was more in him calling the OpenBSD crowd masturbating monkeys Jul 16 18:55:19 Chocky = windows Jul 16 18:55:26 I giggled Jul 16 18:55:28 * Chocky is not. Jul 16 18:55:35 I think he means to say security is no *more* important than other things that are important Jul 16 18:55:53 And I disagree, security is no more important than other things that are as important as security ;-) Jul 16 18:55:57 doc|work, You fix high severity bugs before other bugs.. Real security bugs are high severity. Jul 16 18:56:06 gmaxwell: exactly Jul 16 18:56:07 what's the most stable distro right now? I'm using qtopia Jul 16 18:56:11 But it's much more important than many things Jul 16 18:56:18 wurp2|work: right :) Jul 16 18:56:21 Hydrant: Are you using qtopia, or ASU? Jul 16 18:56:26 so, er, what's his point? :) Jul 16 18:56:30 wurp2|work: qtopia Jul 16 18:56:31 doc|work, if you had a bug that corrupted user data silently .. you wouldn't likely prioritize some exploit over it.. you'd just fix both. :) Jul 16 18:56:34 I'm currently running the scaredycat image of the GTK builds...seems ok so far Jul 16 18:56:56 wurp2|work: I was under the impression that the ASU would have been updated only last April Jul 16 18:57:03 gmaxwell: true Jul 16 18:57:06 Hydrant: FSO will give you more battery life, but I think Qtopia gsm should be perfectly stable... Jul 16 18:57:20 Hydrant: ASU is poorly named Jul 16 18:57:20 yah, I've used it for some calls Jul 16 18:57:25 I want to do some developmet Jul 16 18:57:28 *development Jul 16 18:57:38 can anyone point me to a HOWTO on booting from sd? I've tried http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Boot_from_sd_card, but I get a kernel panic regarding mounting the vfs. Jul 16 18:57:41 ASU now equals August Software Update Jul 16 18:57:45 just something simple... but it's so sweet that it's Linux, because I can actually just contribute without learning all this junk Jul 16 18:58:04 yeah this post is definitely flame bait. linux has a poor security record compared to openbsd. Jul 16 18:58:04 Hydrant: 2007.2 gsm is not perfectly stable. I have a gta01, so others can prolly tell you if the latest 2007.2 is good for FR Jul 16 18:58:30 openmoko: 03zecke * rfe73d98e40ff 10/src/plugins/inputmethods/predictivekeyboard/keyboard.cpp: [keyboard] Catch up with the API change of pred.h Jul 16 18:58:40 wurp2|work: 2007.2 seems old.... how functional is ASU in comparison to Qtopia ? Jul 16 18:58:52 Hydrant: Not at all functional, last I heard Jul 16 18:59:02 2007.2 is not 2007.02 Jul 16 18:59:03 2007.2 is old but good ;-) Jul 16 18:59:08 it's not that old Jul 16 18:59:16 wurp2|work: k... thx Jul 16 18:59:22 my phone works, now I'm trying to do more Jul 16 19:00:01 Yeah, I have no idea the logic behind the naming of 2007.2... it was the main distro until April Jul 16 19:00:07 Hydrant: welcome Jul 16 19:00:07 I want to setup something in Qtopia to switch between VoIP and normal phone... so I want to get a good data plan, and rig the dialpad to only use voip for calls... then setup an app on the menu for the cellular call feature, in case I need 911 or the voip server is down Jul 16 19:00:38 I calculated I just have to use the phone for 82 minutes for that to be a better option Jul 16 19:01:46 Hydrant: But how long do you have to use the phone to pay for your dev time ;-) Jul 16 19:02:06 wurp2|work: meh... I'm not rich, so not a good analogy Jul 16 19:02:17 wurp2|work: that assumes falsely that I make money all the time Jul 16 19:02:48 Hydrant: Or that your leisure time is worth more to you than the money you would make at work Jul 16 19:02:58 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r5e0e936f418c 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade stable kernel to get some more suspend/resume fixes Jul 16 19:02:59 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * ra5d613bbd0ca 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade Qtopia for some cosmetic changes Jul 16 19:03:03 And that you don't enjoy time spend developing for the phone, so it may well be false :-) Jul 16 19:03:04 And that dev time is not fun. Jul 16 19:03:07 leisure time? ha.. too much of a nerd for that Jul 16 19:03:09 s/spend/spent/ Jul 16 19:03:10 wurp2|work meant: And that you don't enjoy time spent developing for the phone, so it may well be false :-) Jul 16 19:03:26 I'm sure others would use what I use anyways Jul 16 19:03:28 http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0715/laser.html <- don't start at the pointer laser :) Jul 16 19:03:40 I think being able to use it as a wireless voip phone would be sweet Jul 16 19:03:53 speaking of which... wireless setup really sucks... I hope qtopia is gonna do something about that Jul 16 19:04:00 yes, a guy round here got arreseted for shining one at a police helicopter Jul 16 19:04:05 what is the most active distro btw ? Jul 16 19:04:17 SHR ;-) Jul 16 19:04:19 Debian! Jul 16 19:04:56 I thought SHR wasn't out yet / stable ? Is it qtopia based ? Jul 16 19:05:35 Hydrant: I didn't say it was out. but it's certainly very active :-) Jul 16 19:05:53 MarcOChapeau: what's it like? Jul 16 19:05:57 great Jul 16 19:06:07 Hydrant: 2007.2, but running on the FSO backbone Jul 16 19:06:11 and totally unusable as is Jul 16 19:06:16 So calls are stable and you can suspend/resume Jul 16 19:06:25 wurp2|work: that's the theory Jul 16 19:06:29 With mwester's patches integrated Jul 16 19:06:36 what's the point of suspend / resume? Jul 16 19:06:47 more than 1 hour of battery life Jul 16 19:06:48 Hydrant: So your phone doesn't run out of battery in 5-6 hours? Jul 16 19:06:48 ok, I didn't apply mwester's stuff yet Jul 16 19:06:59 hrrm Jul 16 19:07:15 MarcOChapeau: Yeah, but SHR isn't out at all yet, so all we can talk about is our target ;-) Jul 16 19:07:44 that sounds very much like windows XP Jul 16 19:07:48 oh wait Jul 16 19:07:54 windows XP is out ? Jul 16 19:08:14 MarcOChapeau: wouldn't know, never used it... is that a version of X windows ? Jul 16 19:08:16 We have 2007.2 apps running on FSO, we just need to finish porting the dialer & gsm-panel to use FSO dbus Jul 16 19:08:31 so if SHR is so active... what's the deal with it... why is that the one distro to rule them all ? Jul 16 19:08:35 and do various little clean-up stuff :-/ Jul 16 19:08:54 Hydrant: I heard it was how XFree86 finished it's life Jul 16 19:08:58 it's not Debian Jul 16 19:09:04 Marcel_M: its Jul 16 19:09:07 er Jul 16 19:09:10 Marco Jul 16 19:09:15 Hydrant: Just because it takes the one distro with lots of nice apps for the neos and puts it on the one distro with stable calls & good suspend/resume Jul 16 19:09:18 MarcOChapeau: hahaha Jul 16 19:09:45 what would I use to program SHR? GTK? QT? Jul 16 19:10:02 Hydrant: To start with, GTK Jul 16 19:10:03 Is this going to end up being another stupid war where there is Gnome / KDE but on the mobile device now ? Jul 16 19:10:25 yes. Jul 16 19:10:30 Later (after we pull in the ASU ports of various UI toolkits) it should be open Jul 16 19:10:34 exactly Jul 16 19:10:35 Hydrant: go EFL Jul 16 19:10:58 feitingen: EFL ? Jul 16 19:11:12 I would love for SHR to go away, because OM recognized that 2007.2 has lots of functionality already and FSO has a good back-end for calling Jul 16 19:11:33 there is nothing wrong with programming evolution... open source is basically natural selection Jul 16 19:11:39 Or because ASU has all the 2007.2 functionality and has been ported to run on frameworkd Jul 16 19:11:39 enlightenment foundation libraries, it is faster than gtk Jul 16 19:11:42 so long as the new distro has something to offer Jul 16 19:12:07 I dont' want to learn 60 new UI frameworks :-( Jul 16 19:12:11 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r045b0697fa5b 10/packages/qtopia-phone/ (3 files in 3 dirs): [qtopia] Use packagearch all for the openmoko profile data Jul 16 19:12:11 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rec0e4198bafe 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade stable kernel to get some more suspend/resume fixes Jul 16 19:12:12 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r2349540d3883 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade Qtopia for some cosmetic changes Jul 16 19:12:15 Let's all just go MFC and Win32 Jul 16 19:12:25 WinCE! Jul 16 19:12:44 that's somewhat open Jul 16 19:13:22 Chocky: With about 40 NDAs and a GUN to your HEAD. :) Jul 16 19:13:23 oh, good idea Jul 16 19:13:28 sweet Jul 16 19:13:44 nothing like a bit of encourgement Jul 16 19:13:52 :) Jul 16 19:13:57 we can make a winCE emulator Jul 16 19:14:07 "I always found that a gun and a strong work was more effetive than just a strong word" Jul 16 19:14:10 just boot up... show a blue screen and say "your phone has performed an illegal operation..." Jul 16 19:14:12 strong word Jul 16 19:14:12 people would love it Jul 16 19:15:27 of course, people bought windows 95, didnt they? Jul 16 19:15:39 Hydrant - I would love to also see if force a vista install onto any non-windows computers you connect it to ;) Jul 16 19:15:53 s/if/it Jul 16 19:15:55 oh, that's an awesome idea Jul 16 19:15:58 oh, question Jul 16 19:16:10 does the openmoko have a USB host? Jul 16 19:16:13 yes Jul 16 19:16:17 yup Jul 16 19:16:17 so can you plugin say a mouse to the freerunner ? Jul 16 19:16:20 really Jul 16 19:16:24 I know someone who really would want it now Jul 16 19:16:24 there's no doubt that FR would run WinCE, if someone made the effort. Jul 16 19:16:43 Chocky: good for them... may they enjoy crashes and resets Jul 16 19:16:46 Hydrant: i used it with a bluetooth mouse Jul 16 19:16:56 not bluetooth though, USB Jul 16 19:16:57 actually, WinCE is a remarkably stable platform Jul 16 19:17:04 more so than desktop versions Jul 16 19:17:10 not defending it, just saying Jul 16 19:17:17 Hydrant - http://blogs.thehumanjourney.net/finds/entry/20080716 Jul 16 19:17:21 almost all GPS devices run WinCE. TomTom is an exception Jul 16 19:17:42 Hydrant - That is a keyboard, but a mouse would be much the same. Jul 16 19:18:31 nice Jul 16 19:18:37 I was showing this to Steve Mann the other day, he wants to build a lot of stuff with it Jul 16 19:18:59 Hydrant - The guy from u of t? Jul 16 19:19:13 sparrow: that's the one Jul 16 19:19:16 damn it Jul 16 19:19:19 sparrow: he's my landlord Jul 16 19:19:21 where's my freerunner!? Jul 16 19:19:26 He is nuts (in a good way) =) Jul 16 19:19:39 sparrow: preaching to the choir! Jul 16 19:19:53 in building the fso, in the bitbake local.conf file, what should MACHINE be for the freerunner? Jul 16 19:21:12 Steve was talking about having students do projects with the FR at U of T Jul 16 19:21:30 he was really excited about it... he wants a camera in it... isn't the next version of the openmoko going to have a camera? Jul 16 19:21:40 He was suggesting he could get involved in the project to help with the hardware design Jul 16 19:23:32 Hydrant - I spoke with him at u of bc (At least that is where I think it was) several years ago when I was giving a lecture on personal device security. Very intense, with some very cools ideas on ar. Jul 16 19:23:59 ar ? Jul 16 19:24:07 Augmented reality Jul 16 19:24:11 ah Jul 16 19:24:22 is that a module for ASU Jul 16 19:24:23 ? Jul 16 19:24:23 we've been talking about building some device to help with my colorblindness Jul 16 19:24:38 coloured lenses Jul 16 19:25:42 hmm, is virtualization out of the question as far as the FreeRunner goes? Jul 16 19:25:49 meaning what? Jul 16 19:25:49 I'm talking about running virtual machines on it Jul 16 19:25:58 you're welcome to run emulators on it Jul 16 19:26:07 you'll have to be more specific Jul 16 19:26:13 Hydrant: That's frikking awesome, being Steve Mann's tenant! Jul 16 19:26:26 wurp2|work: not as awesome as you think Jul 16 19:26:28 StealthCP: are you talking 8085 ir i386? Jul 16 19:26:31 he always wants to invent something Jul 16 19:26:35 or* Jul 16 19:26:35 hah Jul 16 19:26:41 Hydrant: Well, let him Jul 16 19:26:42 emulation ??? Jul 16 19:26:48 !!! Jul 16 19:26:51 but yah, he's super jealous of my FR Jul 16 19:26:59 ok, then I'll start a gentoo on freerunner project... Jul 16 19:27:05 They *are* available for sale... Jul 16 19:27:09 MarcOChapeau: oooh, awesome Jul 16 19:27:15 oh gawd. not Gentoo Jul 16 19:27:20 I was thinking more along the lines of running XP within a virtual machine, on the Freerunner Jul 16 19:27:22 well, he wants a camera in it Jul 16 19:27:26 Chocky: respect your elders Jul 16 19:27:39 Steath: and exactly how fast did you expect x86 emulation to run? Jul 16 19:27:39 Chocky: sorry, that's for people who understand what they're doing only :-) Jul 16 19:27:53 hehe Jul 16 19:27:55 you could run DOSBox ok. Jul 16 19:27:59 That's my point precisely. Is is out of the question? Jul 16 19:28:04 heh. well yes Jul 16 19:28:20 StealthCP: honnestly, you might be disapointed Jul 16 19:28:21 but it's not really a point, since it's such a broad question. Jul 16 19:28:30 StealthCP: would you run xp on a 400mhz pc? arm is slower than a 400mhz pc, then add emulation overhead Jul 16 19:28:33 StealthCP: the cpu on the freerunner is 400Mhz and i think it is without a FPU. running xp on the thing emulated will suck. Jul 16 19:28:38 yes, it's out of the question to run XP. yes, can run various emulators. Jul 16 19:29:16 nintendo emulator?!? :) jk Jul 16 19:29:17 Yeah, I'm thinking that, and I realize the heap. I just wanted to se something fun run on it like such, don't spoil my thoughts Jul 16 19:29:24 a NES emulator might work Jul 16 19:29:34 gameboy could work also Jul 16 19:29:43 indeed, those would be interesting Jul 16 19:29:50 don't tell my kids! Jul 16 19:29:51 stupid VMWare have been using meaningless buzzwords like "virtualization", when what they really mean is a specific situation for running Windows under x86 emulation Jul 16 19:30:06 with nothing but a touchscreen and 3d accelerometers for movement, the usefulness is obviously limited :) Jul 16 19:30:15 StealthCP: linux versions exist. you could try porting on arm. then again, where are the buttons ? Jul 16 19:30:21 there are endless Linux emulators that will work on FR Jul 16 19:30:33 input problems aside Jul 16 19:30:49 will it run Quake? :D Jul 16 19:30:56 probably the Debian armel packaged versions will work without too much hassle Jul 16 19:30:58 Q1 maybe Jul 16 19:31:23 possibly, that's what I was thinking. No, I was just thinking of some ideas for what I could run on it Jul 16 19:31:33 bluetoof paddle anyone ? Jul 16 19:31:39 not for purpose or development, the 'kicks' aspect of it Jul 16 19:31:53 so what's the deal with the GPS? Jul 16 19:31:59 can anyone help me build the FSO? Jul 16 19:32:01 does it actually work without the sim card ? Jul 16 19:32:10 Hydrant: great Jul 16 19:32:16 Hydrant: microsd card, not sim card Jul 16 19:32:18 Hydrant: surprising difference Jul 16 19:32:23 haha Jul 16 19:32:23 right Jul 16 19:32:28 I'm new to all this stuff Jul 16 19:32:34 :) Jul 16 19:32:46 I'm not a phone guy, a Linux guy... but I will help Linux take over a new market :-) Jul 16 19:33:10 Hydrant: i feel the same way :P Jul 16 19:33:20 Anyone knows how to use GConf from Python on OM2007.2? Jul 16 19:33:27 a friend of mine fed the gps some data, and it seemed to be able to get a fix very quick Jul 16 19:33:34 (Apart from speaking DBus directly) Jul 16 19:33:40 Lo-lan-do: the same way than you would on a PC I guess ? Jul 16 19:33:52 zomg Feds? Jul 16 19:33:55 * CaptObviousman runs the opposite way Jul 16 19:34:01 Lo-lan-do: import gconf; dir(gconf); help(gconf.XXX); is often a good start. Jul 16 19:34:04 MarcOChapeau: No python-gconf package available, apparently. Jul 16 19:34:32 I should have said that right away, I guess :-) Jul 16 19:34:33 Lo-lan-do: there is gconf, there is python. you basically have all the deps already ported :-) Jul 16 19:34:34 Lo-lan-do: oh. then you can't, unless you install it, sounds like. Jul 16 19:34:43 Hmm. Jul 16 19:34:54 Ah, I'll concentrate on the rest of my script for now. Jul 16 19:35:40 I'm trying to write something that will disable suspend when I make or receive a call, and re-enable it when the call ends, if it was on previously. Jul 16 19:36:05 Otherwise the phone suspends, so you miss part of the conversation, and apparently the microphone doesn't work on resume. Jul 16 19:36:15 hello wich is the price for the freerunner? Jul 16 19:36:22 all of them Jul 16 19:36:30 $400 Jul 16 19:36:32 the FR is $400 + shipping Jul 16 19:36:51 320€ in France Jul 16 19:37:00 Chocky: this is the edition for software or hardware developers? Jul 16 19:37:09 er Jul 16 19:37:16 margiolas: software Jul 16 19:37:27 * Chocky wonders what a hardware developer edition would mean Jul 16 19:37:35 any hardware hacker is welcome to it Jul 16 19:37:36 Lo-lan-do: looks like i need to add python-gconf to OE Jul 16 19:37:41 Chocky: Heathkit Jul 16 19:37:44 Chocky: a version with a debug board and a guitar pick Jul 16 19:37:51 ~OE Jul 16 19:37:53 well, oe is OpenEmbedded (see http://www.openembedded.org ), or "Opportunistic Encryption" (see http://www.wavesec.org ), or an email client which is not to be spoken of. Jul 16 19:37:55 *whoosh* Jul 16 19:38:04 that's not an "addition", those are simply extras. Jul 16 19:38:07 er, eddition Jul 16 19:38:08 mickeyl: If you'd be so kind :-) Jul 16 19:38:12 hmm Jul 16 19:38:16 <- CaptainTypo Jul 16 19:38:18 lets see how that works Jul 16 19:38:54 Otherwise I'll do os.system ('gconftool-2 -s /desktop/openmoko/neod/power_management -t int 1') Jul 16 19:39:07 first i have to look for the tarball Jul 16 19:39:09 Not a big deal :-) Jul 16 19:39:33 Now, to try and actually catch a Dbus signal when PhoneKit starts a call. Jul 16 19:41:01 Lo-lan-do: Are you interested in just integrating your fix into phonekit in SHR? ;-) Jul 16 19:41:35 Hydrant: last night, my GPS got a fix (TTFF) in 31 seconds WITH the sd card in and the south half of the sky blocked Jul 16 19:41:37 wurp2|work: Not sure it belongs to phonekit, actually. I'd see it more in neod, I guess. Jul 16 19:41:55 Lo-lan-do: Sorry, good point Jul 16 19:42:00 Xaos: with the sd card in? what'd you do? Jul 16 19:42:12 * retracile has his FR in his hot little mits :D Jul 16 19:42:13 What software does the freerunner ship with? Jul 16 19:42:13 That's what I was thinking of, but I was being a dipshit :-( Jul 16 19:42:19 nothing...it was right after I got it and had it charging for a couple of hours... Jul 16 19:42:29 just went outside and ran the agps-gui... Jul 16 19:42:39 I've been inside since then so no chance to test further Jul 16 19:42:42 ... unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be registering with the network... umm. Jul 16 19:46:32 hi Jul 16 19:46:43 fOSSi Jul 16 19:48:54 time to check that 'gps fix' Jul 16 19:49:16 I'm wondering if I'll still need to resolder mine Jul 16 19:49:41 Can the OpenMoko hardware do call recording Jul 16 19:49:47 it "can" Jul 16 19:49:53 it's not up to the hardware. It's up to the software Jul 16 19:49:56 Sargun: you going to write it? Jul 16 19:50:16 Call recording is a definite "want to have" for me as well... Jul 16 19:50:24 I don't have hardware yet Jul 16 19:50:51 Hrm... GSM Network says "Registration Denied". Jul 16 19:50:57 DENID Jul 16 19:50:59 DENIED Jul 16 19:51:59 weird Jul 16 19:52:34 doc|work: ooh.. you got your package yet? Jul 16 19:53:21 kelvie_work: no :( you? Jul 16 19:53:34 not sure, I sent it to my house Jul 16 19:53:36 kelvie_work: says it's in Richmond since 6.36am Jul 16 19:53:44 mine says its in transit Jul 16 19:53:47 no "out for delivery" type message Jul 16 19:54:03 yeah it's out for delivery Jul 16 19:54:03 ARRIVAL SCAN and IMPORT SCANx2 Jul 16 19:54:13 kelvie_work: yours is? how do you now/ Jul 16 19:54:21 it says in the tracking site Jul 16 19:54:25 ass Jul 16 19:54:28 hehe Jul 16 19:54:29 why the fuck doesn't mine? Jul 16 19:54:32 I did order before you did :P Jul 16 19:54:35 even though it shipped way later Jul 16 19:54:40 watch out, angry Candians Jul 16 19:54:41 mine was due to arrive yesterday Jul 16 19:54:46 * doc|work not canadian Jul 16 19:54:49 we got hockey sticks eh? Jul 16 19:54:55 sosaysyou Jul 16 19:55:01 I'm Irish, do not fuck with the Irish Jul 16 19:55:22 tell that to my great-grandmother Jul 16 19:55:25 wurp2|work: Do you see anything wrong with http://pastebin.com/d489c8e42 ? Jul 16 19:55:27 I'm American and will nuke you all to hell Jul 16 19:55:33 I don't seem to receive any signal... Jul 16 19:55:54 Chocky: it doesn't count if she asks for it Jul 16 19:56:25 ok "watch out, angry Canadian residents" Jul 16 19:56:26 doc|work: I think I'll hold up any UPS truck I see this evening on the way home :P Jul 16 19:56:31 macdonalder: hehe Jul 16 19:57:11 I was walking to safeway during lunch yesterday and one passed at about 1.30pm, was hoping they were so incompetent they couldn't even get their fuckups right and it'd be delivered then :( Jul 16 19:58:01 heh Jul 16 19:58:02 * Chocky now waiting for USPS to deliver his Ripstik. so now I can use GPS with my FR whilst riding it. Jul 16 19:58:03 ok, doesn't work :(. i removed the SD card, but still get no fix (no satellites or time either) Jul 16 19:58:04 I remember my brother saw the UPS truck while at the grocery store one day Jul 16 19:58:07 Lo-lan-do: Yes, superficially :-/ Jul 16 19:58:10 same as for my collegue Jul 16 19:58:14 he then went home for lunch on a hunch that his package would arrive Jul 16 19:58:15 ... and it did Jul 16 19:58:20 miracle Jul 16 19:58:22 Lo-lan-do: I dunno for sure the name of the event, although that looks right Jul 16 19:58:25 so it's time to finally get that torque :\ Jul 16 19:58:27 Has anyone gotten their FR in Toronto via UPS? What were the brokerage fees like? Jul 16 19:58:36 sparrow: one phone? Jul 16 19:58:36 it's 45 bucks if you went ground Jul 16 19:58:37 sparrow: I did Jul 16 19:58:43 Fossi: yes, fear so. I get a signal, but it takes some time. Jul 16 19:58:45 Yeah, one phone Jul 16 19:58:46 USD + tax Jul 16 19:58:55 sparrow: I paid $58 in duty... paid for express shipping so that I didn't pay brokerage fees Jul 16 19:58:59 I think a Vancouverite paid 106 bucks Jul 16 19:59:02 sparrow: UPS is the DEVIL! Jul 16 19:59:07 he posted it on the community list Jul 16 19:59:08 kelvie_work: that's mental Jul 16 19:59:21 I warned him to (he was originally part of my buying group :P) Jul 16 19:59:24 s/to/too Jul 16 19:59:26 / Jul 16 19:59:27 I so hate ups >:P Jul 16 19:59:32 * doc|work seconds that Jul 16 19:59:32 Chocky: the ttySAC1 still shows a lot of ,,,,,,0,0,99.99,... and that's it Jul 16 19:59:41 inside though Jul 16 19:59:48 so i'll try on my way home Jul 16 19:59:52 Fossi: you've removed the SD card of course. put it upright and wait 5-6 mins. Jul 16 19:59:58 wurp2|work: It matches http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/src/phone-kit/moko-dialer-dbus.xml at any rate Jul 16 20:00:13 Lo-lan-do: Probably right, then :-) Jul 16 20:00:41 well, i waited about 10, bt then again this is an old, *very* stable building Jul 16 20:01:02 so just being near the window might not be enough Jul 16 20:01:09 this is an old, *very* unstable building that shakes every time there's a quake in Mexico Jul 16 20:01:11 as said, i'll try in the open Jul 16 20:01:24 my window faces south, which might help Jul 16 20:03:08 how is that GPS/SD issue doing by the way... is this something affecting all freerunners Jul 16 20:03:15 seems so Jul 16 20:03:21 Can the Freerunner do 1900mhz? Jul 16 20:03:24 yes Jul 16 20:03:30 hrm Jul 16 20:03:32 Though not alas the CPU. Jul 16 20:03:40 macdonalder: I've seen a few reports of GPS working even with the SD card active Jul 16 20:03:54 interesting Jul 16 20:03:55 the 850 one can do 1800, 850, and 1900? Jul 16 20:03:59 aye Jul 16 20:04:00 Sargun: yes Jul 16 20:04:07 Sargun: eveyr fr can do 18/19 Jul 16 20:04:20 800/900 are exclusive though Jul 16 20:04:35 I think the phonekit I have here doesn't have the same interface as what I thought. Jul 16 20:04:37 850/90 Jul 16 20:04:38 0 Jul 16 20:04:42 Method "HangUp" with signature "s" on interface "org.openmoko.PhoneKit.Dialer" doesn't exist Jul 16 20:04:53 I'd gone through that GPS thread and by the sounds of it it's an interference thing, but it's particularly bad when the card is being accessed? Jul 16 20:05:09 GPS is currently affected by a problem when the SD is accessed - it seems to lose or find it very hard to obtain - lock on satellites. There is a patch to turn off the clock to SD when not using it, but accessing SD will still disturb GPS. There is a hardware fix, but how this can be applied to units in the field is unclear at the moment. Jul 16 20:05:14 macdonalder, when the card is clocked. Due to a glamo bug (apparently) it's always clocked Jul 16 20:05:25 Lo-lan-do: Oh, are you looking at the FSO signatures? Jul 16 20:05:28 mickeyl: what is the expected behavior on SIM.Blocked ? Jul 16 20:05:30 join #dircproxy Jul 16 20:05:33 join /#dircproxy Jul 16 20:05:37 Getting the status, then ask for the right code ? Jul 16 20:05:47 Lo-lan-do: I have the old phonekit signatures documented on the wiki Jul 16 20:05:48 wurp2|work: Don't think so. http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/src/phone-kit/moko-dialer-dbus.xml doesn't look like FSO, does it? Jul 16 20:05:53 nope Jul 16 20:05:59 That should be the right one Jul 16 20:06:10 why does it only affect tiff? Jul 16 20:06:16 Lo-lan-do: I have some scripts that walk the bus & tell you all objects, interfaces & signatures Jul 16 20:06:44 doc|work, it doesn't. Just most prominently since downloading ephemeris/almanac needs a better signal Jul 16 20:07:00 ah, ok Jul 16 20:07:33 SpeedEvil: ahhh thanks Jul 16 20:08:53 SpeedEvil - Do you know what the hardware fix entails? Jul 16 20:09:04 For the GPS that is Jul 16 20:09:21 Nio Jul 16 20:10:03 ducttape? ;D Jul 16 20:10:06 Neo Jul 16 20:10:22 It's reportedly an added compoennt - but it's not been revealed what. Jul 16 20:10:37 3inch thick steel plate Jul 16 20:10:43 lol Jul 16 20:10:56 12' antenna Jul 16 20:11:07 "my opensource phone deflects bullets, take that jesus phone" Jul 16 20:11:48 openmoko: 03werner * r4531 10/developers/werner/ (gta02-current-chart.txt gta02-voltage-chart.txt): Jul 16 20:11:48 openmoko: - added more voltages (regulators, backup battery) Jul 16 20:11:48 openmoko: - added current chart Jul 16 20:12:28 miniature tin foil hat. Jul 16 20:13:52 doc|work: hahaha Jul 16 20:14:36 doc|work: one of my co-workers just bought a 3G iphone. Don't think he'd let me shoot at it, though. Jul 16 20:15:00 heh Jul 16 20:15:29 does it blend? is for wusses, "does it absorb bullets?" is the new king in town Jul 16 20:15:40 now all I need is a gun and a budget Jul 16 20:15:48 and some bullets of course Jul 16 20:15:50 mm I'm surprised no one here has an iphone 3G yet Jul 16 20:15:55 there's quite the apple fanbase here Jul 16 20:15:56 one would think it's splashed with a bit of teh steve's mojo Jul 16 20:16:05 * Chocky laffs Jul 16 20:16:06 can that deflect bullets? Jul 16 20:16:08 but then again.. you need a 3 year contract in Canada :/ Jul 16 20:16:14 * Chocky sobs Jul 16 20:16:38 doc|work - I don't know, I would love to see "Will it arc weld?" Jul 16 20:16:42 hahaha Jul 16 20:17:12 kelvie_work: what time did yours get into richmond? and what time was it tagged as out for delivery? Jul 16 20:17:13 Speaking of "absorb bullets" - http://safetycenter.navy.mil/PHOTO/ Jul 16 20:17:39 I can't ping my qemu openmoko, do you have any ideas? pppd looks ok. http://pastebin.com/m6bd4afdb Jul 16 20:17:58 root@om-gta02:~# opkg upgrade Jul 16 20:17:58 Upgrading ncurses on root from 5.4-r14 to 5.4-r15... Jul 16 20:17:58 Downloading http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/ncurses_5.4-r15_armv4t.ipk Jul 16 20:17:58 Collected errors: Jul 16 20:17:58 * Package ncurses wants to install file /usr/lib/libncurses.so.5 Jul 16 20:17:59 But that file is already provided by package * libncurses5 Jul 16 20:18:21 What to do? Remove the package? Jul 16 20:18:34 mmontour: nice Jul 16 20:18:36 yes Jul 16 20:18:42 doc|work: can I pm you? Jul 16 20:18:45 kelvie_work: sure Jul 16 20:19:44 Chocky: remove libncurses5, and then opkg upgrade? Jul 16 20:19:53 yes, IIRC Jul 16 20:22:59 I said earlier that I need to write a guide for this. Jul 16 20:23:02 * Chocky is all talk. Jul 16 20:23:04 is anyone gonna make a nice little thing like google maps for the openmoko? Jul 16 20:23:08 like the one on the iphone? Jul 16 20:23:13 Hydrant: tangogps Jul 16 20:23:14 tangogps is pretty good Jul 16 20:23:22 * Maybelline is all ears. Jul 16 20:23:23 will that work with qtopia ? Jul 16 20:23:27 dlowe: when GPS works ;-) Jul 16 20:23:34 the wiki has a shedload of GPS apps Jul 16 20:23:43 Chocky: it still works fine as a map Jul 16 20:23:47 true Jul 16 20:23:51 bit chuggy, but ok Jul 16 20:24:02 can't complain Jul 16 20:24:07 so is the GPS really that unusable ? Jul 16 20:24:11 depends Jul 16 20:24:26 I couldn't use it with an sd card installed Jul 16 20:24:53 so has anyone figured out how to make the clock smaller? Jul 16 20:25:01 Seems some people don't get a fix no matter what. Most people seem to get good performance when they take the sd card out Jul 16 20:25:03 I feel overwhelmed by it Jul 16 20:25:13 Why does "opkg update" get 404 messages? The wlan is working just fine. Has anyone else got 404 messages? Jul 16 20:25:24 Chocky: oh, I thought you meant the SD clock :) Jul 16 20:25:35 * Chocky laffs Jul 16 20:25:35 The ugly clocks are the first things I'm going to hack on once this dev environment builds Jul 16 20:25:55 I've used the gps for mapping (openstreetmap.org), it just requires a bit of patience waiting for 15mins or so while it gets a fix (this is with the sd card present) Jul 16 20:25:56 I don't mind how it looks. it's just TOO BIG Jul 16 20:26:13 the analog is a bit pansy tho. Jul 16 20:27:00 anyone know how to install programs with qtopia ? Jul 16 20:27:11 opkg or assassin Jul 16 20:27:22 k Jul 16 20:28:46 Is there a file manager for the 2007.2 image in opkg? Jul 16 20:28:47 German on the list? Glad I have a few shreds of that language still in my brain... Jul 16 20:28:59 ssh :o Jul 16 20:29:08 I'm sure there's one you can install Jul 16 20:29:16 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/022180.html Jul 16 20:29:36 for gps problems Jul 16 20:29:37 my gps still has nothing to say... :\ Jul 16 20:29:44 benn on the balcony for about 10 mins Jul 16 20:30:43 fossi: i was not patient enough, tried it for 2 min with new kernel Jul 16 20:31:07 TeNoVi: there's one if you use scaredycat's feed Jul 16 20:31:12 fossi: with an external antenna i got a fix in about 50 sec Jul 16 20:31:12 np: Ronan Keeting - When you say nothing at all. Jul 16 20:31:42 Ainulindale: Can I use that one on the 2007.2 standard image? Jul 16 20:31:58 hm, busybox 'less' is a bit funny Jul 16 20:32:14 TeNoVi: yep Jul 16 20:32:16 Ainulindale: ScaredyCat has a file explorer? What's it called? Jul 16 20:32:25 gpe something Jul 16 20:32:29 k Jul 16 20:32:29 lpotter: ping Jul 16 20:32:30 is this TTFF problem in any way related to the soldering problem seen on the Wiki? Is that soldering problem REAL? Jul 16 20:32:32 abraxa_ put that on the wiki Jul 16 20:32:42 El_Salvador: thx 4 link Jul 16 20:33:00 LionKMP: The soldering problem might be real, but it sounds like the sd card problem far outweighs it in terms of effect Jul 16 20:33:04 LionKMP: it sounds like it's probably a combiantion of things. Jul 16 20:33:17 :( Jul 16 20:33:25 opkg install gpe-filemanager Jul 16 20:33:26 LionKMP: Have you tried it without the sd card? Jul 16 20:33:29 don't need SC for that Jul 16 20:33:53 wurp2|work: well, my lil' one is promised to be sent from Germany tomorrow :) Jul 16 20:33:57 * Chocky answer ninja! Jul 16 20:34:44 Thanks... Jul 16 20:34:56 is there any mailclient yet? Jul 16 20:35:01 speaking of... what opkg feeds does everyone use on the Freerunner? Is the "daily-neo1973" feed valid on a Freerunner? Jul 16 20:35:05 opkg list | grep -i mail Jul 16 20:35:28 anybody knows pppd-qemu, how to get it work? http://pastebin.com/m6bd4afdb (wanted to learn a few commands in advance) Jul 16 20:36:47 ATD*99***1# Jul 16 20:36:47 ERROR Jul 16 20:36:48 CONNECT Jul 16 20:36:52 -gibberish- Jul 16 20:36:54 NO CARRIER Jul 16 20:36:55 o.O Jul 16 20:36:58 * Sargun confused Jul 16 20:37:08 NO CARRIER PIDGEON Jul 16 20:37:12 -_- Jul 16 20:37:21 RFC1149 on the Freerunner! Jul 16 20:39:39 kelvie_work: what was the time frame for expedited shipping? Jul 16 20:41:05 doc|work: 2 days :p Jul 16 20:41:16 shipped Monday at ~5pm Jul 16 20:41:22 and should be here right now Jul 16 20:41:48 i get mine tomorrow:)+_ Jul 16 20:41:53 I thought you were going to decline the delivery, kelvie_work Jul 16 20:41:54 ? Jul 16 20:42:04 yeah, I left a note for the UPS guy Jul 16 20:42:24 mine just showed up at home, but I'm at work :( Jul 16 20:42:31 awww Jul 16 20:42:32 I feel kinda bad doing that though, but tony@openmoko said this counts as DoA criteria Jul 16 20:42:43 do u feel sick? Jul 16 20:42:46 malik1972: pong Jul 16 20:42:49 Ah, ok. I admire your commitment to excellence Jul 16 20:43:10 I would not have refused it if our customs protocols weren't so stupid Jul 16 20:43:20 I wouldn't mind sending it back if it would only cost me ~$50 Jul 16 20:43:21 opkg won't download anything :S It says I have to run opkg update, but I just get 404.... Jul 16 20:43:21 lpotter: hi, i forgot my question:-) Jul 16 20:43:32 ignore those Jul 16 20:43:36 but getting nailed for taxes, twice is not something I'd like to do Jul 16 20:43:47 canada? Jul 16 20:43:51 yep :( Jul 16 20:43:51 malik1972: ok. thats good, because I forgot my answer :) Jul 16 20:44:02 watch ebay Jul 16 20:44:04 opkg will still work, those are just signature files Jul 16 20:44:08 lpotter: ahh okay ... i was thinking of an option in qtopia to turn off gsm Jul 16 20:44:12 ebay sucks too much these days Jul 16 20:44:17 someones gonna hate it Jul 16 20:44:24 I'm sure there will be a customs protocol for warranty returns, kelvie_work. But it's probably not worth the effort - here in the UK it's a stupid amount of paperwork. Jul 16 20:44:43 If you were paying staff to fill in all the forms it would cost you more than the tax Jul 16 20:44:45 Stroller: it's a stupid amount of paper work here, plus you have to drive down to the border as well, I think Jul 16 20:44:48 yeah Jul 16 20:44:48 prolly come here to sell it Jul 16 20:44:52 Yay for local resellers. Jul 16 20:45:02 perhaps my next order should be through Koolu Jul 16 20:45:14 ahhh 299? Jul 16 20:45:16 Canada <-> Canada is smooth, of course :p Jul 16 20:45:25 lpotter: it should save some battery life and i dont have to do a shutdown Jul 16 20:45:26 kelvie_work: smooth as ice? ;o Jul 16 20:45:31 was Jul 16 20:45:43 now just dirt Jul 16 20:45:53 and caribou Jul 16 20:45:53 But opkg won't install anything. It won't download when I for example run "opkg install gpe-filemanager" Jul 16 20:46:03 calif has a growing glacier Jul 16 20:46:15 hahaha Jul 16 20:46:19 "UPS guarantees on-schedule delivery of packages shipped via UPS's services listed as guaranteed, or will refund your transportation charges." Jul 16 20:46:22 fucking a Jul 16 20:46:36 linuxxr: yes, but where's the water coming from for it :o Jul 16 20:46:58 malik1972: i can put a script in Jul 16 20:47:01 is there a way to dual boot the fso and 2007.2? Jul 16 20:47:03 spring maybe Jul 16 20:47:04 anyone have an idea on when/if the sd+gps problem is solved in HW? Jul 16 20:47:11 lilo Jul 16 20:47:21 fuzzdk, no. They're testing fixes. Jul 16 20:47:31 Is there someone here that doesn't have the GPS problem? Jul 16 20:47:38 * Stroller hands linuxxr a dunce's cap with "troll" written on it Jul 16 20:47:38 damn it. i dont know how to deal with lilo. :P Jul 16 20:47:39 i dont Jul 16 20:47:44 blat78: I don't. Jul 16 20:47:48 Blalien: Jul 16 20:47:50 haaaay Jul 16 20:47:52 lpotter: it is easy on the terminal, sure Jul 16 20:47:56 i dont: I do still not have the phone Jul 16 20:47:57 sorry Jul 16 20:48:01 me shutup Jul 16 20:48:15 Ooops, sorry Jul 16 20:48:19 i get mine tomorrow Jul 16 20:48:22 I am wondering if I should cancel my order or not (shipment earliest friday) Jul 16 20:48:23 kelvie_work: thanks Jul 16 20:48:27 linuxxr: And do you have a micro SD card in your Neo? Jul 16 20:48:34 yeah Jul 16 20:48:45 lpotter: in om images there is a choice for gsm, wifi, bluetooth ... one screen Jul 16 20:48:47 * Stroller removes the hat from linuxxr and hands it to fuzzdk Jul 16 20:48:55 get an 8 gb i hope Jul 16 20:48:59 fuzzdk: I did mine, the guys at OM were nice about it too Jul 16 20:49:24 malik1972: there is airplane mode Jul 16 20:49:25 lpotter: an option somewhere would be also nice Jul 16 20:49:25 though alternatively, you could take it, and sell it Jul 16 20:49:29 kelvie_work: I'd go with koolu, same price more or less, no border hassles, and a one year warranty Jul 16 20:49:36 SpeedEvil: Does your Neo's GPS work with a Micro SD inserted? Jul 16 20:49:38 a lot of people want one, and they're still sold out right now Jul 16 20:49:46 doc|fail: yeah, I'm thinking of doing that next time Jul 16 20:49:52 If I have to wait months to get a hw-bug free phone I will rather except the sw-fix Jul 16 20:49:55 it would cost a _lot_ less as well Jul 16 20:49:55 lpotter: really? it turn the gsm off? Jul 16 20:49:58 blat78: I have a 1973 Jul 16 20:50:06 have a new want list yet? Jul 16 20:50:08 Blalien: Jul 16 20:50:19 SpeedEvil: Ahh ok ;) Jul 16 20:50:35 do they have colors? Jul 16 20:50:36 malik1972: not power to the chip Jul 16 20:51:23 lpotter: did you set up an ipk feed? some applications i can find only in the speed link menue Jul 16 20:51:33 not yet Jul 16 20:51:51 opkg update :o Jul 16 20:52:31 * kdub figured out how to get a fso-image compiling :D Jul 16 20:52:31 linuxxr: you have a Freerunner? Jul 16 20:53:11 Why is it erroring, then CONNECTing Jul 16 20:53:13 gah Jul 16 20:53:31 lpotter: okay Jul 16 20:53:42 tomorrow i get me freerunner Jul 16 20:53:44 kelvie_work: Koolu's got stock in Canada and are shipping. Jul 16 20:54:00 bricode: hehe.. I'm waiting for the next version.. with the hw GPS/SD card fix Jul 16 20:54:07 but in all likelihood I'll be ordering with you guys Jul 16 20:54:13 kelvie_work: Gotcha. Jul 16 20:54:20 Koolu's site scares me. Jul 16 20:54:21 what are the shipping options to Vancouver? Jul 16 20:54:25 Well done, kdub Jul 16 20:54:43 Sargun: Which part? Jul 16 20:54:50 it's not obvious how to quit kobodeluxe except via ssh + kill Jul 16 20:54:51 the links Jul 16 20:54:52 er Jul 16 20:54:54 link Jul 16 20:54:55 lpotter: no hurry Jul 16 20:54:56 kelvie_work: 3 flavours of Canada Post. Jul 16 20:55:06 Do all Freerunners have the GPS/SD problem? Jul 16 20:55:09 like, the google apps, and recommendations, etc.. Jul 16 20:55:12 bricode: fantastic :p Jul 16 20:55:17 Chocky: press the power button Jul 16 20:55:17 blat78: possibly Jul 16 20:55:22 Blalien, there have been people who have seen it workign Jul 16 20:55:26 bobkare: you're my uncle. Jul 16 20:55:35 Blalien: I've been able to get mine to work with SD card in, and 2007.2 image from Jul 10. Jul 16 20:55:45 bricode: I'm with Sargun here, the koolu site would put me off :/ looks like a "free iphone if you refer 1 billion people" site :/ Jul 16 20:56:07 bricode: Ok so it could be a software problem? Jul 16 20:56:10 doc|fail: There's good reason for why it's like that. Jul 16 20:56:25 bricode: not in any way undermining what you're doing of course Jul 16 20:56:42 er, s/undermining/belittling Jul 16 20:57:16 Blalien: Seems like gps firmware/software could be improved. Not sure if the other GPS issues people are seeing are sw/hw. Jul 16 20:57:20 So what are we discussing now? Jul 16 20:57:47 doc|fail: No, I know. We have to differentiate somehow amongst the other distributors. Jul 16 20:58:13 bricode: I agree with them about the website - I'd be more comfortable if there was a page that made it clear that I was buying an un-modified Openmoko Freerunner from a reseller, not signing up friends to get a lime-green "W.E." phone Jul 16 20:58:40 bricode: It's a fine line being a tech person and associating with marketers. Jul 16 20:58:43 * doc|fail seconds that Jul 16 20:58:46 bricode: For everyone in Canada, your differentiator is "No customs/UPS crap". And it's a big one. Jul 16 20:59:12 mmontour: Granted that's the case for some. Jul 16 20:59:29 Canada, eh? Jul 16 20:59:30 mmontour: Unfortunately Canada is a relatively small market. Jul 16 20:59:45 true. Jul 16 20:59:59 shame that this was all set up so late or I'd have gotten a 10 pack from you :/ Jul 16 21:00:21 Too bad for Canada. Jul 16 21:00:29 * DaveLab tosses a toonie at doc|fail Jul 16 21:00:43 thanks! Jul 16 21:00:55 * Chocky tosses some trash Jul 16 21:01:00 doc|fail: s'ok. It happens. Jul 16 21:02:53 Oh well Jul 16 21:02:58 Back to work, you two. Jul 16 21:03:36 macdonalder: would you like a phone? ups just arrived! :D Jul 16 21:03:44 they do suck at being incompetent :) Jul 16 21:04:53 ups is super reliable. ive never had a late package from what they cite Jul 16 21:05:01 they're a day late with this Jul 16 21:05:11 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07python-ophoned * ra31b6dbc65f0 10/ophoned/modems/ti_calypso/unsolicited.py: python-ophoned: (ti_calypso) prepare case for %CPI=,10 (locally held) Jul 16 21:05:12 kdub: UPS tried to deliver my FR *early* but I wasn't home. Jul 16 21:05:36 hmmm, and they lost a box Jul 16 21:05:41 missing a debug board Jul 16 21:06:37 so in compiling the fso, i'm cross compiling an entire distribution, essentially? Jul 16 21:06:49 doc|work: mine came in the same shipping box as the FR Jul 16 21:07:08 root@om-gta02:/etc# opkg install fortune Jul 16 21:07:08 An error ocurred, return value: 2. Jul 16 21:07:09 Ideas? Jul 16 21:07:24 Sargun: networking, dns? Jul 16 21:07:38 --- google.com ping statistics --- Jul 16 21:07:38 3 packets transmitted, 2 packets received, 33% packet loss Jul 16 21:07:38 round-trip min/avg/max = 640.118/671.233/702.349 ms Jul 16 21:07:38 root@om-gta02:/etc# Jul 16 21:07:47 odd. Jul 16 21:08:02 kdub: yessir Jul 16 21:08:04 Very. Jul 16 21:08:56 doc|work: had to look twice through the packing peanuts to find everything Jul 16 21:10:26 retracile: no peanuts here Jul 16 21:10:38 i feel that its still pretty pro, even if i didnt have to set up much :P Jul 16 21:10:47 I really, really want this thing Jul 16 21:10:52 I've got access to one Jul 16 21:11:09 doc|work: Well bother. :/ Jul 16 21:11:46 doc|work: did you get the pouches/styli/etc. ? Jul 16 21:13:45 of course!!! Jul 16 21:13:58 mmontour: oh, no pouch :( Jul 16 21:14:08 :( Jul 16 21:14:16 what? Jul 16 21:14:35 nope Jul 16 21:14:35 i gonna make a leather 1 Jul 16 21:14:55 did u order the extra stuff ? Jul 16 21:15:15 Pouch is nifteh :) Jul 16 21:15:29 I wish there were a belt clip Jul 16 21:15:32 (handheld-linux sends it with :) ) Jul 16 21:15:38 I'm having trouble completing an 'opkg upgrade' because my shell keeps getting killed during the package configuring. I can't get screen to launch, does anyone have suggestions for me? Jul 16 21:16:16 hrm, has anyone attempted to play OGGs with the built-in media player from a SD card? Jul 16 21:16:35 what built in media player? haha Jul 16 21:16:37 abescully turn off power management Jul 16 21:16:43 OMG, Net is freaking addicting! Jul 16 21:16:51 abescully: try "nohup opkg upgrade &" Jul 16 21:17:13 kdub: opkg install openmoko-mediaplayer2 Jul 16 21:17:17 anyone porting marble madness with the tilt-sensors ? Jul 16 21:17:21 leinir ~_~ Jul 16 21:17:34 awesomo4k: that would be awesome :P Jul 16 21:17:40 sweet res screen Jul 16 21:17:43 really crisp letters Jul 16 21:17:51 Staticwave_Ace: i did that, there's no interface to it though. just a few nameless boxes, and something that looks like a progress bar Jul 16 21:17:55 doc, what you say? Jul 16 21:18:00 Nuclear_eclipse, isn't it? :D Jul 16 21:18:02 kdub: works fine here with 2007.2 Jul 16 21:18:05 so i'm probably in worse shape then you on that front Jul 16 21:18:19 what comes in the box again? 2007.1? Jul 16 21:18:19 kdub: well, except that the sounds keeps cutting out Jul 16 21:18:20 kdub, and in person? :P Jul 16 21:18:37 kdub: no idea, flashed immediately after opening the box Jul 16 21:18:53 hello, is there a browser for the openmoko that has the following capacities: greasemonkey,add block and media player plug-in(so i can see youtube video with greasemonkey and my media player)...by the way i know how to use open-embedded so compiling it woudn't be a problem for me(but i don't know how to do packages for it yet) Jul 16 21:19:03 leinir, make my qtopia phone useful :( Jul 16 21:19:10 Pretty please? :) Jul 16 21:19:18 DaveLab: How is it not useful? :) Jul 16 21:19:39 hmmm, I wonder are pouches in the other missing box Jul 16 21:20:08 probably Jul 16 21:20:24 doc|work: mine came with the pouch outside the black cardboard box Jul 16 21:20:29 doc|work: I got the phone & dboard, but not the "extras" pack. no pouch for me. Jul 16 21:20:38 retracile: you buy direct? Jul 16 21:20:41 i have a pouch from gta01 :) Jul 16 21:20:44 doc|work: yeah Jul 16 21:20:45 Stroller: hmm Jul 16 21:21:02 doc|work: you go through someone else? Jul 16 21:21:03 Stroller: a separate box? Jul 16 21:21:07 retracile: no, direct Jul 16 21:21:13 anyone port synergy to this ? Jul 16 21:21:34 awesomo4k: it's already in the repos Jul 16 21:21:51 doc|work: I got mine from Truebox. So it was in a brown cardboard box with my address in it. When I opened that, the pouch was separate from the black & green "presentation box" Jul 16 21:22:04 oh sweet... does it work? Jul 16 21:22:22 * Chocky got two boxes - one with 10 FRs, one with 10 pouches + earphones Jul 16 21:22:25 mmontour: thank you. that worked fantastically. Jul 16 21:22:47 Chocky: ok, cool, must be in that, no headsets either now that you mention it Jul 16 21:22:59 that was the 10 pack deal of course Jul 16 21:23:09 awesomo4k: someone said they were already using it Jul 16 21:23:13 or mabe i should use firefox3 as it is in the oe repository Jul 16 21:23:15 Chocky: right Jul 16 21:23:24 oookay... so you can't play music from the SD card Jul 16 21:23:27 omg iRipOff: http://www.geeks.com/pix/2008/KNIFE2.html?&cpc=HPM Jul 16 21:23:30 thats.. frustrating Jul 16 21:23:41 it's a shame I left my phone at home so no sim card :( Jul 16 21:23:59 Chocky: lol Jul 16 21:24:04 yeh. Jul 16 21:24:30 Staticwave_Ace: wtf ? Jul 16 21:24:52 CVirus: playing an OGG from SD card, plays about 5 seconds, choppy, then silence Jul 16 21:25:08 CVirus: works fine if I cp to /home/root first Jul 16 21:25:14 Staticwave_Ace: software issue ? Jul 16 21:26:01 Staticwave_Ace: sorry, I don't use OGG. Is this audio only, or video, too? Jul 16 21:26:34 heh Jul 16 21:27:31 CVirus: maybe, but maybe its because you can't use the CPU and copy from the SD card at the same time Jul 16 21:27:39 Stroller: this is audio only so far Jul 16 21:28:39 So it's just a couple hundred kbps? Jul 16 21:29:16 Nominal bitrate: 160.000000 kb/s Jul 16 21:29:21 (according to ogginfo) Jul 16 21:30:01 hm, what does "ASU" use as sound backend? pure alsa (+dmix) or pulseaudio? Jul 16 21:30:31 * Staticwave_Ace envisions a system that copies a song from sd -> ram, plays, and then delets Jul 16 21:30:35 *deletes Jul 16 21:30:53 where's the vision about this? Jul 16 21:30:57 anyone managed to share a mac's network connection over USB to a freerunner? Jul 16 21:31:16 almien: once, on 10.4 Jul 16 21:31:23 mplayer -cache $(du $file) $file Jul 16 21:31:35 almien: not at all on 10.5. Someone else reported same problem Jul 16 21:31:38 hah, fucking UPS. so, two boxes, one arrived the other didn't. turns out the second one is on a different van Jul 16 21:31:46 Stroller: cool, same OS as me then (10.4 here) Jul 16 21:32:00 and the box that arrived is the pouch? ;-) Jul 16 21:32:05 almien: wifi too much work? Jul 16 21:32:35 ah, the stink of fresh rubberised plastic Jul 16 21:32:44 new car smell Jul 16 21:32:52 lol Jul 16 21:32:54 It has that Jul 16 21:32:59 reminded me of new shoes Jul 16 21:33:01 * Chocky stabs use of "lol" Jul 16 21:33:16 lol Jul 16 21:33:19 doc|work: my phone got delivered by canada post, their tracking system still says "information recieved" Jul 16 21:33:21 * Chocky stabs Jul 16 21:33:23 next we'll hear ASL? Jul 16 21:33:34 Staticwave_Ace: with that typo? Jul 16 21:33:53 Chocky: unlikely, I always spell that wrong. Jul 16 21:33:57 kd8ikt: perhaps. tried wifi briefly but didn't manage it yet Jul 16 21:33:57 i before e except after c except when in canada Jul 16 21:34:15 awesomo4k: that's so wrong, I don't know where to start. Jul 16 21:34:39 mickeyl: quick question again, PUK are only used along with Unlock() ? Jul 16 21:34:44 ei unless it's a long eee sound unless it's after a 'c' Jul 16 21:35:08 unless the name is Keith Jul 16 21:35:22 that's correct %100 of the time :o Jul 16 21:35:26 Stroller: once you had USB setup and SSH into phone via the USB cable, did you just "internet sharing on, from 'built in ethernet' to 'ethernet adapter (en2)'"? Jul 16 21:35:36 mickeyl: (either PUK or PUK2, whatever AuthStatus asks for) Jul 16 21:35:56 almien: yes Jul 16 21:36:11 Ainulindale: yes. PUK is Unlock Jul 16 21:36:12 almien: but you also have to do /etc/resolve.conf on the phone Jul 16 21:36:20 since you need to give a new PIN Jul 16 21:37:03 mickeyl: my question was more about the fact that there's PUK and PUK2 Jul 16 21:37:18 It will now what the code we feed it means ? (PUK or PUK2 ?) Jul 16 21:37:21 +k Jul 16 21:37:54 well, i have never tried that, to be honest Jul 16 21:38:09 Ok :-) Jul 16 21:38:10 Stroller: I copied from the tutorial into /etc/network/interfaces the line "up echo nameserver 208.67.222.222 >/etc/resolv.conf" (I have no idea what that IP is, but hope the tutorial pointed to an actual nameserver) Jul 16 21:38:14 but as far as I know, the Unlock call should go for both PUKs Jul 16 21:38:34 i have a couple of SIMs without balance here, i can test next week Jul 16 21:38:35 4.2.2.2 is my favorite (actual) nameserver because its easy to remember Jul 16 21:38:57 almien: try ping google.com Jul 16 21:39:04 $ host 208.67.222.222 Jul 16 21:39:05 222.222.67.208.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer resolver1.opendns.com. Jul 16 21:39:05 $ Jul 16 21:39:27 almien: do you have a problem? Jul 16 21:39:58 awesomo4k: yes that was when I first noticed networking wasn't working so well - pings to www.google.com were timing out, and opkg update was giving the "signature error" that it gives when network is unavailable Jul 16 21:40:38 and that's still the case now Jul 16 21:41:04 almien: have you set default gateway? What does `route` say? Jul 16 21:41:07 Silly question which has me stumped. I'm running a qtopia-build on my freerunner. Using the app-launcher configuration, I've managed to hide the config shelf option. Does anyone know where the Shelf(?) stores it's configuration settings (ie: which icons to hide / display ) ? Jul 16 21:41:29 oh... Jul 16 21:41:41 almien: can you ping 208.67.222.222 ? Jul 16 21:41:42 sorry for troubling everyone, it turns out to be the mac's firewall Jul 16 21:42:07 disable the firewall, and ping on the freerunner springs to life Jul 16 21:42:23 I'll have to file a bug report with Colloquay - "no button to slap almien with a kipper" Jul 16 21:42:52 although opkg update is still giving "signature check failed" Jul 16 21:43:01 after an ==== bargraph for each line Jul 16 21:43:40 almien: don't worry, sig is not necessary Jul 16 21:43:50 almien, the signature check tends to fail due to their being no signature files on the build hosts. Not sure why they aren't there but its a known issue Jul 16 21:44:07 Oh! Jul 16 21:44:16 mickeyl: sorry for being such a pain ;-) Jul 16 21:44:21 So updating of packages will still work, even if the sig check fails? Jul 16 21:44:42 indeed Jul 16 21:44:46 Blimey! Jul 16 21:44:47 very dodge Jul 16 21:44:52 Why did no one tell me that?!?!? Jul 16 21:45:07 It was posted on the community lists a couple of times Jul 16 21:45:14 !!!! Jul 16 21:45:17 Stroller: should I tell you? Jul 16 21:45:20 Wait, have you been updating opkg at all Stroller > Jul 16 21:45:33 I asked about this on here yesterday Jul 16 21:45:39 Ainulindale: don't worry. at least your questions are sane. Jul 16 21:46:38 recursv: not yet Jul 16 21:46:52 Does anyone know where the qtopia top-shelf config files are likely to be ? Jul 16 21:47:20 and by config I of course mean icon settings references Jul 16 21:47:23 When "opkg update" gave the 404 sig errors I assumed I wouldn't be able to update any packages Jul 16 21:47:44 yeah, it still updates. The 404 is accurate though Jul 16 21:48:18 if opkg upgrade says that /etc/pulse/default.pa has been modified (not touched by my AFAIK) should it be replaced? Jul 16 21:48:26 s/my/me/ Jul 16 21:48:27 almien meant: if opkg upgrade says that /etc/pulse/default.pa has been modified (not touched by me AFAIK) should it be replaced? Jul 16 21:49:18 I'd say if you are updating and you havn't conciously modified the file, you want the new one Jul 16 21:52:46 almien: You've received your FR? Congrats in that case :) Jul 16 21:53:03 hi bobkare. yes, arrived at work today Jul 16 21:53:39 * doc|work can't play with his phone - at work Jul 16 21:54:56 with the default image, how do you know when the batt is full? Jul 16 21:55:30 I think the icon only shows full once you unplug it Jul 16 21:55:53 hmm.. odd .. my FR has an icon on the upper right with a battery with a red triangle and a bang.. though I'm sure it must be fully charged. Jul 16 21:56:57 Stroller: except I don't want to unplug it until it's full :) Jul 16 21:57:28 lol Jul 16 21:57:31 cute, Can you ssh into it ? Jul 16 21:57:34 I had this problem yesterday Jul 16 21:57:44 doc|work: It's not NiMH you're not going to create memory by partial charging. ;) Jul 16 21:57:57 doc|work: what charger are you using? How long has it been plugged in? Jul 16 21:58:14 Stroller: wall wart, and, hmmm, not sure :) Jul 16 21:58:20 gmaxwell: I thought you were supposed to give it a FULL charge the first time? That's what the manual says Jul 16 21:58:23 gmaxwell: sure, and li ion don't explode :) Jul 16 21:58:28 gmaxwell: NiMH do not suffer from memory. Jul 16 21:58:35 doc|work: the wall wart should charge it in only an hour or so. Jul 16 21:58:36 oh, and I didn't get a manual Jul 16 21:58:40 ok Jul 16 21:59:03 doc|work: by "manual" I meant the quick-start guide on the wiki Jul 16 21:59:07 interface is a bit cryptic Jul 16 21:59:10 Stroller: ah :) Jul 16 21:59:15 wow, should I be getting a *lot* of updates from opkg? Jul 16 21:59:18 nice digital clock -- a font designed for 7 pixels per character of resolution, still used for a device with thousands of pixels... Jul 16 21:59:43 AlmAck: I lie it. Jul 16 21:59:46 lami: Jul 16 22:00:35 ok so in the middle of an opkg update the freerunner disconnects its USB network (happened twice, in about the same place within opkg upgrade) Jul 16 22:00:42 update-alternatives: Linking //usr/bin/ssh to /usr/sbin/dropbearmulti Jul 16 22:00:44 System startup links for /etc/init.d/dropbear already exist. Jul 16 22:00:46 Restarting Dropbear SSH server: Connection to openmoko closed by remote host. Jul 16 22:00:47 Connection to openmoko closed. Jul 16 22:01:19 almien: you're doing the update whilst ssh'd in? Jul 16 22:01:32 Stroller: yes Jul 16 22:01:38 1. connect into the terminal app in the GUI Jul 16 22:01:38 2. there type/tap "opkg update" Jul 16 22:01:38 run it from a terminal instead? Jul 16 22:01:38 3. also there type/tap "opkg upgrade dropbear" Jul 16 22:01:38 4. connect via SSH Jul 16 22:01:38 5. inside the SSH shell, do "opkg upgrade" Jul 16 22:01:51 ok, will try thanks Jul 16 22:02:00 I did it through screen Jul 16 22:02:13 it has screen? even cooler Jul 16 22:03:08 whois KLmeet Jul 16 22:03:21 man, I hate random dcc requests.. Jul 16 22:06:10 cool, a browser on freerunner! Jul 16 22:06:33 So where's this quickStartGuide? Jul 16 22:06:48 I kinda like this stylus :) Jul 16 22:06:49 it's going to need more special-characters on the keyboard though (not having / is even too little on the terminal) Jul 16 22:07:03 retracile: like http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner ? Jul 16 22:08:57 almien: thanks. My Googlefu failed me Jul 16 22:09:05 ctrl-c would sometimes be useful addition to keyboard too ;) Jul 16 22:09:08 almien: you can edit the keypad stuff in /etc/multitap-pad Jul 16 22:09:30 Yasumoto: thanks! Jul 16 22:09:30 I dunno about the ctrl stuff, but I added a / and a > to the 1 key Jul 16 22:09:35 no worries :) Jul 16 22:09:43 macdonalder: nevermind, phone box arrived, other box still to arrive, have to find out taxes too Jul 16 22:10:17 Sounds like the matchbox keyboard is a better bet Jul 16 22:10:36 I found the default one EXTREMELY quirky about accepting my edits Jul 16 22:15:01 Yasumoto: Could you put that on the wiki? Maybe on Switching_Keyboards if you can't find another place to hang it Jul 16 22:18:13 wurp2|work: sure, I'll post what I've got too Jul 16 22:19:17 I thought the multitap pad wasn't so bad.. but kinda miserablefor adding text.. the querty one is nicer but can't be used with just your fingers. :( Jul 16 22:21:04 I kinda fancy the idea of accelerometer-enabled Dasher Jul 16 22:21:37 I want this marble/maze game for gta02! Jul 16 22:21:52 Yasumoto: thanks! Jul 16 22:22:17 edistar, know of a free implementation we could port > Jul 16 22:22:18 ? Jul 16 22:23:36 recursv: no :( Jul 16 22:23:51 recursv: neverball :D Jul 16 22:23:56 Hi. Can I use bitbake with the toolchain, or do I have to set up the complete thing (e.g. with MokoMakefile)? Jul 16 22:24:59 seems like USB connection via a mac only works for one session per reboot of the mac... Jul 16 22:25:23 * Stroller hands almien a cigar Jul 16 22:25:26 Sucks, don't it? Jul 16 22:25:54 get an open pc :) Jul 16 22:25:57 doesn't help that my linux PC has broken USB ports Jul 16 22:26:20 almien: you can always get an open operating system that works like linux :) Jul 16 22:26:24 I have an asus EEE (with default software), anyone use those for connecting to freerunner? Jul 16 22:26:39 raster: what do you mean Jul 16 22:26:58 Actually, almien, I think you can overcome this by telling the Freerunner to always use the same MAC address (MAC address! haw!) each time it reboots. There's an explanation of this on the wiki - it's the modprobe command which should be used by the Freerunner Jul 16 22:27:34 Stroller: sounds good.. Jul 16 22:28:19 Want a laugh? At work we needed a quick way to get the MAC addresses from HP DL360 and ML370 servers, including the PCI cards. Jul 16 22:29:05 We called HP tech support to explain our problem. When we said we needed the MAC addresses, he told us that those were Windows servers, not Macintosh ones. Jul 16 22:29:06 almien: i assuem u meant plugging in freerunner to mac? Jul 16 22:29:48 raster: yes. I have a mac mini, a linux PC with broken USB ports, and an asus eee available here Jul 16 22:29:52 johngay: :D nice one Jul 16 22:30:09 almien: freerunner plugged in to a linux os works 100% of the tiume Jul 16 22:30:17 a cdc_ethernet usb ethernet device pops up Jul 16 22:30:29 it's never failed on me Jul 16 22:30:38 * almien got asked to do something with a 'mach address' at work, according to the spelling on the bug report... Jul 16 22:31:06 After we explained that we didn't mean Macintosh, he asked the top tech guy who said that we had to finish the Windows install because Windows created the MAC addresses. Jul 16 22:31:15 each time the kernel assigns a random mac address to the ethernet gadget device Jul 16 22:31:34 how do I edit a text file on the neo? is there something like nano on it Jul 16 22:31:37 does bluetooth have faster transfer speed than usb on freerunner? Jul 16 22:31:41 trappylappy: vi Jul 16 22:31:44 if your mac can't handle the idea of plugging in a different usb ethernet device with a different mac address... it's really got problems. Jul 16 22:31:46 usb 1.1, right? Jul 16 22:31:46 :) Jul 16 22:31:47 thanks Jul 16 22:31:48 We just hung up after that. I burned a Linux rescue CD and just ran ifconfig -a Jul 16 22:32:03 trappylappy: vi Jul 16 22:32:13 http://www.cs.colostate.edu/helpdocs/vi.html Jul 16 22:32:20 raster: osx does have problems Jul 16 22:32:26 johngay: so... why is it u pay for hp support? Jul 16 22:32:28 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Switching_Keyboards updated Jul 16 22:32:35 I'm out for a while, ttyl guys Jul 16 22:32:40 edistar: in general? or for usb ethernet devices? Jul 16 22:32:41 :) Jul 16 22:32:45 i vot for both Jul 16 22:32:48 vote Jul 16 22:32:48 :) Jul 16 22:32:49 raster: me too Jul 16 22:32:57 These are new servers bought at work. Jul 16 22:33:29 Actually, basing the name of the ethernet adaptor on the MAC address does make a lot of sense. It's reasonable to expect a single device to keep the same MAC Jul 16 22:33:39 They set-up 6 of these running Linux so we could build and test our software system on Linux since we refuse to support Vista. Jul 16 22:33:51 Stroller: yup. Jul 16 22:34:00 johngay: and you sell what kind of software? Jul 16 22:34:07 but nothing should stop it not working if it has a new mac address next time Jul 16 22:34:09 * u_l-lap is the devil and forges mac addresses Jul 16 22:34:10 it shouldwork Jul 16 22:34:20 it just means u need to configure a different device each time Jul 16 22:34:28 if u generate names via mac addr's Jul 16 22:34:45 tho it'd make sense for us to ship with fixed mac addrs Jul 16 22:34:48 rasterize it, baby! Jul 16 22:34:48 so I can ping computers on my own network but can't ping anything on other networks.... Jul 16 22:34:49 For running power distribution systems for electrical supply companies. Jul 16 22:34:55 or at leats have the kernel generate the same mac basedon serial # Jul 16 22:34:56 etc. Jul 16 22:34:59 Does `opkg` have a "pretend" option? Jul 16 22:35:01 but hey Jul 16 22:35:03 nice to haves Jul 16 22:35:08 nothng that should stop it working Jul 16 22:36:41 does the current software have an easy way to share files over wifi (samba for example)? Jul 16 22:36:49 Stroller, there's a noaction option ... not sure if it will work as you want though Jul 16 22:37:22 ieatlint: I just want it to tell me WHICH packages it WOULD upgrade Jul 16 22:37:34 peepsalot, the kernel supports cifs and nfs, but most people are just using scp Jul 16 22:37:49 when the freerunner reconnects in mac os, the new network in OSX gets the name 'Ethernet adaptor ((null))" instead of "Ethernet adapter (en0)" Jul 16 22:37:55 brb, trying reboot Jul 16 22:38:02 Sounds like an OS X bug. Jul 16 22:38:30 you would think... maybe will try update of OSX later in case they fix it Jul 16 22:38:40 do they fix old versions? Jul 16 22:38:44 ieatlint, is wifi the fastest way to transfer? i think at least theoretically it has higher bandwidth than the USB on freerunner Jul 16 22:38:53 Any idea if the Dim, but don't Lock thing was patched recently? Jul 16 22:39:07 Since I last updated a day or two ago it seems to actually function on one of my phones Jul 16 22:39:13 Thought that might account for it :p Jul 16 22:39:28 Dave: don't think it was fixed Jul 16 22:39:33 peepsalot, well, the usb is v1.1, so about 12mbps theoretical, whereas the wifi is 802.11g and 54mbps ... however, that doesn't necessarily reflect the actual throughput one may get Jul 16 22:39:41 someone should try tests perhaps... Jul 16 22:40:10 i remember pcmcia network cards that were "100mbps" when the bus only supported 33mbps Jul 16 22:40:19 it could negotiate 100mbps though.. !! Jul 16 22:41:13 hrm, alright Jul 16 22:41:17 maybe it's a fluke :D Jul 16 22:41:48 ieatlint: err - no Jul 16 22:42:04 ieatlint: Cardbus cards are basically PCI cards. Jul 16 22:42:22 it was an old pcmcia interface Jul 16 22:44:08 was a 16bit card and bay, type 1 ... had to look it up... been a long time Jul 16 22:44:35 i specifically remembering dealing with it though, hehe Jul 16 22:48:15 Anyone else have problems running `screen` on the Freerunner? Jul 16 22:48:30 Stroller: yes Jul 16 22:48:41 what are the problems with screen? Jul 16 22:48:54 * thewtex_ is awaiting his freerunner Jul 16 22:48:59 It's very slow Jul 16 22:49:03 And quirky Jul 16 22:49:09 Seems to be working now Jul 16 22:49:10 Stroller: it doesn't even start for me Jul 16 22:50:15 It took minutes for me the first couple of times I tried it Jul 16 22:50:23 Once it's going it seems fine Jul 16 22:50:29 Best way to fix something. Ask some else whats wrong with it and the problem goes away (= Jul 16 22:50:48 `killall screen && screen -wipe && screen -Rd ` Jul 16 22:50:52 lolol Jul 16 22:50:53 http://www.ginguppin.de/node/15 .. who has made that keyboard, and where can you find the source for it? Jul 16 22:51:14 aww, wish ecraven was here Jul 16 22:51:20 I have more roflicious news regarding neod. :D Jul 16 22:54:27 So has anyone confirmed a hardware fix for the GPS issue yet? Jul 16 22:54:59 beyond what's on the wiki? Jul 16 22:55:04 ghetto hardware repair, or something Jul 16 22:55:11 It's sounding more and more like the software fix will be entirely adequate. Jul 16 22:55:14 (resoldering the antenna) Jul 16 22:56:02 the software fix should workfor 99% of people and use cases Jul 16 22:56:17 Dave: Oh. That wasn't the problem. Jul 16 22:56:31 As well as reduce battery draw :) Which is always a bonus ;) Jul 16 22:56:33 On your phone? Jul 16 22:56:33 if u need to do lots of SD card IO while getting a gps fix... and have no choice to avoid SD card IO then Jul 16 22:56:37 then u need a hw fix Jul 16 22:56:41 * Dave draws on leinir Jul 16 22:56:46 Dave: With EM noise in the way, it doesn't matter how well soldered the antenna is. Jul 16 22:56:59 and what noise would that be? Jul 16 22:57:06 Dave: The SD clock. Jul 16 22:57:17 the noise of yo momma Jul 16 22:59:37 I've heard about the S/W fix. I was just wondering if a H/W one had been found and if it would be included in future batches? Jul 16 22:59:52 there is a hw fix Jul 16 22:59:53 Almost certainly to both. Jul 16 23:00:09 and chances are that there will be future revisions of the FR board Jul 16 23:00:22 so it will likelygo into a future board rev tobe shipped at an unknown date Jul 16 23:00:31 But that's how this always works -- people will keep making hardware revisions as production goes on. Jul 16 23:00:45 yup Jul 16 23:00:52 almost every product is that way Jul 16 23:00:52 The difference here is just that we actually get told ;) Jul 16 23:00:59 yeah :) Jul 16 23:01:00 small problms are found and fixed in hw revs Jul 16 23:01:11 so first-day adopters often are caught with the brunt of bugs Jul 16 23:01:12 And more importantly, that we get told what the changes are ;) Jul 16 23:01:28 which is why its ALWAYS wise to wait for the first-batch blues to pass Jul 16 23:01:37 :) Jul 16 23:01:56 we didnt know about this issue when we decided to ship Jul 16 23:02:00 it passed our testing Jul 16 23:02:00 it won't pass if *everyone* waits ;) Jul 16 23:02:06 we just happned to be lucky Jul 16 23:02:08 the way it was tsted Jul 16 23:02:21 Let me just say that everyone at OM has been quite outstanding with this issue! I've worked in production facilities and know what goes on behind the scenes. Jul 16 23:02:24 Well... Or unlucky, depending on point of view :) Jul 16 23:02:25 balrog-k1n: u know.. there will always be fanbois :) Jul 16 23:02:32 But hey, with this software fix, i'm good :) Jul 16 23:02:38 balrog-k1n: apple has made a good living from them! Jul 16 23:02:40 :) Jul 16 23:02:57 lol :) Jul 16 23:03:09 Are you rasterman who's been 'disin' the glamo??? Jul 16 23:03:12 i guess.. so does linksys Jul 16 23:03:12 everyone makes mistakes Jul 16 23:03:15 may I ask what bug are you talking about? (I'm not really keeping up recently...) Jul 16 23:03:17 eery piece of hw has issues Jul 16 23:03:23 glamo is fun to say. Jul 16 23:03:26 most companies cover it up quietly Jul 16 23:03:29 and dont let u know Jul 16 23:03:37 and update a rev along the way Jul 16 23:03:42 likewise -- the OM team did a great job on this bug. Jul 16 23:03:52 johngay: me and the glamo are not the best of friends. Jul 16 23:04:00 Like the one that bricked all the unlocked iPhones? Jul 16 23:04:10 johngay: He's the raster that actually has to work with the bloody thing ;) Jul 16 23:04:46 i could go around saying "hey we have these open drivers for a graphics accelration chip in the freerunner and its AWESOME" Jul 16 23:04:52 but then i'd probably sound like steve jobs Jul 16 23:04:54 I've been following the M/L at work. I signed up, but I was dropped? Jul 16 23:05:00 Anyone else see this problem: http://pastebin.com/m3b3b1cbc Jul 16 23:05:06 raster: Indeed - we have people for that, you don't need to ;) Jul 16 23:05:09 and also be lying out of my arse. Jul 16 23:05:12 :) Jul 16 23:05:23 So, you'd be like steve jobs ;) Jul 16 23:05:26 So you're not american (= Jul 16 23:05:36 i say it how it is Jul 16 23:05:39 well, you'd be like (insert name of any corporate front figure here) ;) Jul 16 23:05:47 i'd rather u have low expectations Jul 16 23:05:51 and be pleasantly surprised Jul 16 23:05:55 than the other way around Jul 16 23:06:04 i am by nature, a pessimist Jul 16 23:06:15 i prefer to go "yah.. i knew that would happen" Jul 16 23:06:19 and not be disapointed Jul 16 23:06:27 as really - i didnt have any high hopes to lose out on Jul 16 23:06:28 :) Jul 16 23:06:33 Yup :) Jul 16 23:06:34 hey dudes Jul 16 23:06:37 the glamo works Jul 16 23:06:46 it solved the problem of needing an extra sdio for wifi Jul 16 23:07:04 So, I guess you wouldn't agree with me that nVidia is the best 3D available? Jul 16 23:07:05 and takes out video refresh from system memory bus bandwidth overhead Jul 16 23:07:11 it can acceleratre things Jul 16 23:07:15 Is there a really easy way to disable the sound when you tap the screen? Jul 16 23:07:15 but... there is a limit Jul 16 23:07:20 hey, I try to do the usb networking on the wiki but when I "ssh root@192.168.0.202" it just hangs and doesn't say anything Jul 16 23:07:28 trappylappy: wait Jul 16 23:07:38 edistar, how long? Jul 16 23:07:38 trappylappy: can you ping it? Jul 16 23:07:42 anyway Jul 16 23:07:46 its been harped on enough Jul 16 23:07:54 me and mr. glamo are not best buddies Jul 16 23:07:57 raster: Indeed :) Jul 16 23:08:00 I Jul 16 23:08:19 Hey, all! Jul 16 23:08:22 I'm glad it's dropped, though there could be a little promise in it. Jul 16 23:08:32 it's in freerunner Jul 16 23:08:33 edistar, when I ping it just hangs and doesn't say anything as well. but ifconfig on the neo says usb0's inet is 192.168.0.202 Jul 16 23:08:35 not dropped Jul 16 23:08:41 I still say nVidia's the best option. Jul 16 23:08:44 for gta03 the plan is no glamo right now Jul 16 23:08:50 jo nvidia... hahahhaha Jul 16 23:08:59 johngay: nvidia.. hahahahahah Jul 16 23:09:01 i'm just going to reboot the phone Jul 16 23:09:02 nvidia... right... ;) Jul 16 23:09:07 the day nvidia have open drivers.. let meknow. Jul 16 23:09:11 So, UPS says they moved my phone from Hodgkins Illinois to Hodgkins Indiana. Jul 16 23:09:24 * leinir is totally with raster there - give us a shout then ;) Jul 16 23:09:32 Don't think that will happen, but I do thing I know why their hands are tied. Jul 16 23:09:33 i'm more interested in qualcomm - god forbid, than nvidia Jul 16 23:09:44 qualcomm = 1 block away Jul 16 23:09:48 i dont care why their hands are tied Jul 16 23:09:55 qualcomm employee #12 - advisor of ours Jul 16 23:09:56 not my problem Jul 16 23:10:22 if the drivers for the video h are not open or open ones cannot be written Jul 16 23:10:26 then its a no-go. Jul 16 23:10:29 pretty simple. Jul 16 23:10:34 Chocky: oh, you live in SD? Jul 16 23:10:35 open docs is a gray area Jul 16 23:10:39 no ;-) Jul 16 23:10:43 ah. Jul 16 23:10:43 well, I live in SD County Jul 16 23:10:48 Chocky: yeah. qualcomm are not exactly... open. Jul 16 23:10:57 Chocky: BUT. i smell a change in he wind a bit. Jul 16 23:11:14 yes, but that's just left over smoke from the fires ;-) Jul 16 23:11:15 Chocky: their latest snapdragon for example uses an ati graphics core.. which is why they have raised my interest Jul 16 23:11:23 i cant believe how long its going to take to compile fso. its like being on gentoo again :P Jul 16 23:11:32 Chocky: I'm in Boston at the moment, but my wife wants us to move to SD in a year or two :) Jul 16 23:12:32 Chocky: TI have ben opening up. thir last real stumbling block is their imagination gfx core. Jul 16 23:12:37 tats still not open... currently Jul 16 23:12:46 but there are plans in the works Jul 16 23:12:55 Chocky: .. but I don't know where I'd get a Linux/free software job there. Jul 16 23:13:32 cjb: mucking out the steer yard isnt an open ... sauce jobb? Jul 16 23:13:34 :) Jul 16 23:13:58 raster: it does at least do a good job of bypassing ethical concerns about working on closed code :) Jul 16 23:14:12 "can't find a free software job? well, at leasr I could muck out the steer yard." Jul 16 23:14:14 hahahah Jul 16 23:14:25 cow pies for the win Jul 16 23:15:25 cjb: there are some. poke on Linkedin, etc. Chumby were looking for someone - they're uber OSS Jul 16 23:15:47 what I do is mostly Debian - build routers. some closed stuff of course. Jul 16 23:15:53 raster: don't forget the calypso, and 3G chips. Jul 16 23:16:08 I think nVidia release as much as they legally can in the kernel driver sources. What's hidden in the binary file is what they don't have the rights to release, but they won't admit that publicly. Jul 16 23:17:02 SpeedEvil: calypso... i think is dead.. but in general yes.. 3g/comms is an issue Jul 16 23:17:38 SpeedEvil: as long as qualcom provide a serial port with at commandset to the 3d subsystem... i'm happy. if they dont.. they'd better provide open drivers... or allow for them to be written Jul 16 23:17:40 * SpeedEvil imagines a happy world where everything comes with source and docs. Jul 16 23:18:07 * SpeedEvil ponders a 3d subsystem over RS232. Jul 16 23:18:13 that world got killed by MS in 1981 or so Jul 16 23:18:16 johngay: We don't want their driver source, we want specifications that we can write drivers to. Jul 16 23:18:16 * SpeedEvil presumes that was a G. Jul 16 23:18:34 Chocky: it got killed by the anti-trust suits against IBM to an extent. Jul 16 23:18:35 johngay: And there isn't a good excuse for not giving them. ATI's doing a fine job. Jul 16 23:18:35 source would be find if it was suitable free. In fact, that would be best of all Jul 16 23:18:40 fine Jul 16 23:18:45 er, suitably Jul 16 23:18:49 SpeedEvil: yeah.. meant.. g... :) Jul 16 23:19:05 Chocky: Most of the driver writers I've spoken to say that specs would be basically as good as source. And if you had to pick one, you'd progably pick specs instead of source. Jul 16 23:19:08 help! I can't connect to the freerunner by usb, it's timing out Jul 16 23:19:09 And what if they don't have the rights to release those? They bought most of their stuff from other companies. Jul 16 23:19:24 raster: some of the chips have problems in that they are 3g+application processors, which I guess are impossible to use openly. Jul 16 23:19:26 Don't see any 3D stuff from ATI either. Jul 16 23:19:29 johngay: I humbly suggest that you're giving them a cop-out that strains belief. Jul 16 23:19:30 cjb: yes, but you'd saving massive amounts of time with something that already works well :p Jul 16 23:19:31 johngay: then one doesn't use their chips Jul 16 23:19:46 * Chocky would pick source. I don't want to reinvent the wheel Jul 16 23:20:12 SpeedEvil: it all depends how is done - indeed. the "gsm/3g" stack may b a some realtime os under a hypervisor Jul 16 23:20:15 Blob with stable ABI isn't too bad IMO. Jul 16 23:20:21 where linux is just a guest os Jul 16 23:20:22 who knows Jul 16 23:20:28 devil is in he details Jul 16 23:20:31 johngay: This came out just three days ago: Jul 16 23:20:32 trappylappy: check that usb0 is configured right on your host PC (192.168.0.200). If you're also using 192.168.0.x network addresses elsewhere on your network you may need to add a specific route statement for the Neo Jul 16 23:20:36 http://www.x.org/docs/AMD/ Jul 16 23:20:37 raster: always true. Jul 16 23:20:40 http://www.x.org/docs/AMD/r600isa.pdf Jul 16 23:20:50 looks like 3D specs for r600 to me. Jul 16 23:20:56 Ohh. ISA. Jul 16 23:20:59 mmontour, thanks Jul 16 23:21:04 * SpeedEvil connects it to his AT. Jul 16 23:21:20 SpeedEvil: As in "instruction set architecture", no? Jul 16 23:21:22 * SpeedEvil needs to throw away his AT stuff. Jul 16 23:21:26 cjb: yes. Jul 16 23:21:29 SpeedEvil: i'd at least like to know if they are willing to play the open game Jul 16 23:21:37 maybe they are Jul 16 23:21:38 maybe not Jul 16 23:21:38 cjb: unles they've done something spectacularly wierd. Jul 16 23:21:58 raster: I suspect the answer is 'Yes sure! How many millions did you want again?' Jul 16 23:22:06 johngay: I see no plausible reason for "we don't have the rights to release what the registers on our cards do when you write to them". I've never heard that claim from any vendor before. Jul 16 23:22:29 SpeedEvil: HAHHAA we can always just buy them and open it up... Jul 16 23:22:30 :) Jul 16 23:22:36 and the fact that ATI/AMD is doing it suggests that it is possible for modern 3D cards. Jul 16 23:22:52 But who knows what DNA's they signed when they bought most of their tech? Jul 16 23:22:53 cjb: they bought a block of IP from someone without the appropriate rights to release docs. Jul 16 23:23:43 SpeedEvil: but seriously.. beyond gta03 we have majorneed for a new SOC.. and in this age SOC comes with just about everything - kitchen sink too (gfx, audio, media encode/decode, etc. etc.) Jul 16 23:23:55 some of them include wifi and gsm/3g (like the qualcomm) Jul 16 23:23:58 SpeedEvil: ATI certainly claims to have done this for their *code*, and is why they aren't open-sourcing the fglrx driver. But they aren't claiming it for what happens when you bitbang registers on their cards, and it sounds totally implausible to me. Jul 16 23:23:59 cjb: if you've developed it in house, that's not really an issue. Jul 16 23:23:59 * SpeedEvil wishes FPGAs were cheap. (board area, power, $). Jul 16 23:24:10 we need something modern and fast Jul 16 23:24:15 Sun bought StarOffice with the sole intention of releasing as OSS, and still had to rip out a lot of stuff they couldn't release. Jul 16 23:24:22 raster: I thought the S3C6410 or whatever it was? Jul 16 23:24:29 raster: was in the frame. Jul 16 23:24:30 johngay: The analogy does not hold. Jul 16 23:24:35 SpeedEvil: thats an interesting case Jul 16 23:24:38 You're talking about releasing code. I don't want code. Jul 16 23:24:38 raster: or has the 04 planning been thrown out? Jul 16 23:24:46 SpeedEvil: we can get docs for the 6400 and its 2d gfx isnt too bad Jul 16 23:24:50 a big step up from glamo Jul 16 23:24:55 I'm talking about how to program hardware, as a black box, without knowing what algorithms it uses internalls. Jul 16 23:24:56 y Jul 16 23:24:56 no 3d or fancy stuff Jul 16 23:25:09 raster: no docs onb the 3D pin-compat part? Jul 16 23:25:20 * SpeedEvil likes pin compatibility. Jul 16 23:25:28 but 6410's 3d accel (ie the fancy gfx stuff with shaders etc.) is a black blob of which i have yet to find any info from samsung on its programming specs Jul 16 23:25:30 They bought spec's when the bought the other 3D companies. Who knows what kind of restrictions were in those purchases? Jul 16 23:25:35 sp bingo Jul 16 23:25:36 Ah. Jul 16 23:25:42 they list specs Jul 16 23:25:45 like the checklist stuff Jul 16 23:25:51 and some limitations;/details Jul 16 23:25:55 raster: which lead to glamo. Jul 16 23:25:59 (eg 2048x2048 max texture size) Jul 16 23:26:15 the "limits" they list seem to suggest its actually quite a nice gpu Jul 16 23:26:21 "suggest" Jul 16 23:26:22 BUT Jul 16 23:26:24 raster: can we redistribute the s3c6400 docs? Jul 16 23:26:32 cant get details Jul 16 23:26:38 which may mean u cant have open drivers... Jul 16 23:26:44 which... means.. pfffft :( Jul 16 23:26:44 * SpeedEvil sighs. Jul 16 23:26:49 I would like to have specs like that Jul 16 23:26:49 Yet more work for raster! Jul 16 23:26:54 balrog-k1n: the 6400 docs were availabel in public for a while Jul 16 23:26:59 so as such the 6400 is open Jul 16 23:27:00 raster: they're not. Jul 16 23:27:08 the 6410 - is a drop-in pin compatible etc. upgrade Jul 16 23:27:09 johngay: Makes no sense to me. nVidia defines what the registers on their chipsets do, they don't incorporate another company's chipset. Jul 16 23:27:14 with the 3d core and able to dohigher clockrates Jul 16 23:27:16 raster: you can't get them without having an appropriate corporate website. Jul 16 23:27:17 raster: no OS drivers? Jul 16 23:27:30 They can incorporate another company's *code*, but that's not relevant because I don't want them to release that. Jul 16 23:27:33 SpeedEvil: not anymore.. they WERE available at a point Jul 16 23:27:33 and were pulled Jul 16 23:27:37 raster: ah Jul 16 23:27:41 linuxhater makes a great case about nVidia's superiority with MMU/GPU tech. But most of that tech was bought from other companies in the early days. Jul 16 23:27:55 thus... anyone could have gotten them then and thus kept them and tell everyone about them and their contents Jul 16 23:27:56 ... Jul 16 23:27:59 raster: seen that teardown of the iphone? Jul 16 23:28:04 so i say thats "leakd and open". Jul 16 23:28:07 * SpeedEvil notes he has dcc_autoget set to true? Jul 16 23:28:18 Hi all Jul 16 23:28:23 the 6410 is anothe rmatter as the whole 3d core is a lack unknown box Jul 16 23:28:26 nVidia is a combination of the various other companies they've bought over that last >10 years. Jul 16 23:28:29 stupid suspend Jul 16 23:28:35 sp and no. i ingore the iphone. i hear to much of it as is Jul 16 23:28:38 They inovated very little. Jul 16 23:28:53 raster: uses same GPS as GTA01 interestingly. Jul 16 23:28:54 Question: Flashing the Freerunner. The wiki sais: ./dfu-util -a (partion name) -R -D (download image file name) Jul 16 23:29:06 raster: but otherwise no major surprises. Jul 16 23:29:06 SpeedEvil: ahahha Jul 16 23:29:13 SpeedEvil: we're happywith our ublox Jul 16 23:29:14 But partition name: what to put there to sett it to the Micro-SD-Card Jul 16 23:29:15 very happy Jul 16 23:29:19 GPS is currently affected by a problem when the SD is accessed - it seems to lose or find it very hard to obtain - lock on satellites. There is a patch to turn off the clock to SD when not using it, but accessing SD will still disturb GPS. There is a hardware fix, but how this can be applied to units in the field is unclear at the moment. Jul 16 23:29:29 :) Jul 16 23:29:53 Does it look like there is a fix - it's fixable with minor rework? Jul 16 23:30:05 Rahter than the software patch. Jul 16 23:30:07 SpeedEvil: but we really need a better soc Jul 16 23:30:10 i dont mind the 6400 Jul 16 23:30:19 but really even the 6400 may b a bit old by the time we get toit Jul 16 23:30:25 so might need to look a bit ahead... Jul 16 23:30:43 omap is looking also good as it just has so much support from TI Jul 16 23:30:48 raster: existing SOC would be OK for GTA03 - released now. In 6 months, it gets less shiny. Jul 16 23:30:49 EXCEPt that damn imagination gfx core... Jul 16 23:31:00 What about OpenGraphics??? Jul 16 23:31:08 johngay: hahahhaha. Jul 16 23:31:11 johngay: opengraphics is mostly useless Jul 16 23:31:12 :) Jul 16 23:31:13 (sorry - have to laugh there) Jul 16 23:31:19 johngay: FPGAs use lots more power. Jul 16 23:31:24 johngay: what SpeedEvil said Jul 16 23:31:28 the summary is "dont bother" Jul 16 23:31:36 this is low-power embedded here Jul 16 23:31:43 every miliwat matters Jul 16 23:31:43 johngay: it would in principle be possible if OM burned an ASIC - but that's utterly, utterly insane. Jul 16 23:31:52 I'd really like to see a omap3 - even if this means paying the powervr without using it Jul 16 23:31:57 johngay: even iphone doesn't do that. Jul 16 23:32:03 we'd be better off shipping a system with 2 or 3 soc's Jul 16 23:32:13 But the FPGA is only the dev platform. They plan to spin as ASIC at some point. Maybe by the time GTA3 is coming out? Jul 16 23:32:14 and just use 1 or 2 of the "spare" soc's as gfx execution slaves Jul 16 23:32:16 anyone know how I might get socat onto my 1-hour-old freerunner? opkg list isn't helping me too much Jul 16 23:32:20 than using an fpga Jul 16 23:32:34 especially if its a new cortex ARM with all the 128bit simd instructions... Jul 16 23:32:37 johngay: 'plan to spin an asic' is big words. Jul 16 23:32:55 raster, yeah, but seems the cortex is only to get in the big omap3 Jul 16 23:32:59 johngay: no chance. Jul 16 23:33:01 Selling an Open Phone was also big words (= Jul 16 23:33:06 johngay: butthe problem is that an ASIC - in small volumes on an old process is going to eat power almost as bad as an FPGA. Jul 16 23:33:08 even i they have an asic they'll spend the next 5-10 years working on power consumption and reduction Jul 16 23:33:09 and I guess this is not the SoC to have twice or triple :) Jul 16 23:33:37 thomasg: hahaha Jul 16 23:33:42 johngay: the only way you could get power use down would be to use a modern process - which is horribly expensive unless your runs are hundreds of thousands. Jul 16 23:33:45 thomasg: but.. maybe 2 or 3 6400's Jul 16 23:33:54 I'd rather go with freescale Jul 16 23:34:00 raster: 3 - one red, one green, one blue. Jul 16 23:34:03 with tne 2nd (and3rd if u include it) dedicated to "media processing" Jul 16 23:34:09 (ie gfx accel) Jul 16 23:34:10 raster: do we need one for alpha channel too? Jul 16 23:34:18 hahaha Jul 16 23:34:31 let's take another one for switching faster between SD and GPS :P Jul 16 23:34:54 heehe Jul 16 23:34:59 not to mention a Linux-based hand-held games console was big words. That also happened. Jul 16 23:35:00 seriously tho Jul 16 23:35:02 ompa3 looks nice Jul 16 23:35:07 except that imagination gpu Jul 16 23:35:16 raster: I assume no docs? Jul 16 23:35:19 if that can come open... we are talking a real contender Jul 16 23:35:21 raster: on the gpu Jul 16 23:35:23 spyup. Jul 16 23:35:28 SpeedEvil: yup Jul 16 23:35:30 closed Jul 16 23:35:30 yeah - the pandora-guys are claiming to get a open driver for the powervr, but I still doubt that. Jul 16 23:35:46 TI have pushed imagination to be moreopen Jul 16 23:35:47 hum Jul 16 23:35:48 but even without it, the omap3 is the most powerful thing to get in a mobile device Jul 16 23:35:51 pandor'a Jul 16 23:35:55 pandora Jul 16 23:35:56 and i thing they have agreed to a binary blob driver Jul 16 23:35:57 ah! Jul 16 23:36:04 that is basically some form of access library Jul 16 23:36:04 pandora's pretty cool though Jul 16 23:36:08 But I don't know what kind of timeframe OpenGraphics will take to get mass-production ASIC's out. Jul 16 23:36:15 and that of course can always be reverse-enigneered Jul 16 23:36:35 Who's talking about pandora? Jul 16 23:36:39 johngay, even if opengraphics gets it's hardware out - no chance in mobile/embedded Jul 16 23:36:48 thomasg: dunno. the snapdragon looks petty beefy. Jul 16 23:36:57 its Jul 16 23:37:06 thomasg: It's not fundamentally imposible - just an order of magnitude harder. Jul 16 23:37:19 thomasg: though external busses will always hurt power use. Jul 16 23:37:43 I don't see something like this coming the next 3-5 years. Jul 16 23:38:08 * SpeedEvil ponders a GPU made from one 450mm wafer. Jul 16 23:38:19 SpeedEvil: yeah. i just dont see external busses working for embedded Jul 16 23:38:27 * Chocky ponders one made of a waffle Jul 16 23:38:30 gpus will really be rolled on-dye along with cpu etc. Jul 16 23:38:52 system like gfx that need MEATY fast busses just are best left sharing the system memory bus Jul 16 23:38:53 etc. Jul 16 23:39:06 Just like the math co-processors were. Jul 16 23:39:22 And the MMU's Jul 16 23:39:23 * SpeedEvil is writing a GPU ATM. Jul 16 23:39:34 (bit-banging a colour LCD) Jul 16 23:39:38 Really? kewl. Jul 16 23:39:46 Can you get the Trac to email you when tickets are updated? Jul 16 23:40:07 (for the very littlest value of g - it can do lines and dots and one font. Jul 16 23:40:20 Stroller: yes Jul 16 23:40:32 I used a software GPU for my rubik's cube game. Jul 16 23:40:43 SpeedEvil: how? I can't see it in Preferences on the Trac Jul 16 23:40:48 raster: do you do interface work for the fso? Jul 16 23:40:51 Stroller: I cunno. Jul 16 23:41:04 Stroller: I just know that I've gotten mail in the past. Jul 16 23:41:06 lol Jul 16 23:41:08 Thanks Jul 16 23:41:16 s/cun/dun/ Jul 16 23:42:25 kdub: no. all my time is eaten up by doing ASU Jul 16 23:42:53 HI. Why does MokoMakefile (or bitbaker) build native (i638) versions of things like libsdl-native-1.2.11-r2 when I want to build an arm package? Jul 16 23:43:33 sometimes there are stupid build dependencies that require native stuff. But that's a bit of an odd requirement Jul 16 23:43:50 qemu? Jul 16 23:43:55 raster: ah, ok. needless to say, i think i'm going to start with that Jul 16 23:43:56 hmm. and expensive wrt to time and space Jul 16 23:43:58 yeah, troo Jul 16 23:44:11 * Chocky hasn't built it himself, FWIW Jul 16 23:44:12 SpeedEvil: ah, that’s a good guess. Although I never stated that I want qemu, I just want to build packages :-) Jul 16 23:44:17 but at least you should only need to do it once Jul 16 23:44:32 nomeata: I think the default builds qemu too. Jul 16 23:44:44 kdub: what do u mkan? Jul 16 23:44:46 err Jul 16 23:44:48 kdub: what do u mean? Jul 16 23:44:56 Eh? Jul 16 23:45:25 BTW, assuming some day that’s finished, and I start to hack on some packages, what is the prefered form of patch submisison? Jul 16 23:45:36 The kind of files that lie next to the .bb file? Jul 16 23:45:40 git patches? Jul 16 23:45:55 patches against the subversion code, if present? Jul 16 23:46:21 or maybe even branching and putting the git repository somewhere, for the devs to pull from? Jul 16 23:47:35 git format-patch generally Jul 16 23:47:36 i'm trying to install mimo and when i use scp i get "Connection to 192.168.0.202 closed." but i can ssh into the phone. so? Jul 16 23:47:47 and then git send-email to send them Jul 16 23:48:07 kelvie_work: and them is devel@lists.openmoko.org? Jul 16 23:48:23 unless you're a trusted contributor, maintainers generally won't pull from you (or they shouldn't) Jul 16 23:48:26 not sure Jul 16 23:48:29 this is just basic git workflow though Jul 16 23:50:39 kelvie_work: ok, thx. Jul 16 23:54:16 SpeedEvil: looks like Trac just notifies you automatically of updates to any bug upon which you've commented Jul 16 23:54:33 stro' ah Jul 16 23:56:37 How are you gentlemen? Jul 16 23:57:25 bashing my head open with asterisk Jul 16 23:57:32 O.O Jul 16 23:57:46 kd8ikt: what's your issue? Jul 16 23:58:05 * SpeedEvil takes kd8ikts *, rounds off the corners, and passes him back the much safer 'o'. Jul 16 23:58:08 been awhile since i had a server running so it might take me a bit to get back in the swing Jul 16 23:58:18 gotcha. Jul 16 23:58:36 have you seen the O'Reilly book? It's the best documentation, by far. (free PDF download, asteriskdocs.org) Jul 16 23:59:41 also, you can hit up #asterisk with specific questions (as long as you're not using a GUI, in which case you will get flamed ...) Jul 17 00:00:16 its on this host that i'm using irssi+screen on :P Jul 17 00:00:23 yay :) Jul 17 00:03:02 i want to get some nice integration between openmoko and asterisk (starting with an iax client for the moko) ... but it's going slowly Jul 17 00:03:17 lots of other projects dominating my brain bandwidth as of late Jul 17 00:04:16 raster: hi raster.. are you planning to integrate some kind of text entry to edje? Jul 17 00:05:18 nezza-_-: not any time soon... not like i have much time to... Jul 17 00:06:06 raster: okay.. than i will have to write one myself. Jul 17 00:06:19 Has anyone considered asking gregkh if he'll write the glamo driver? Jul 17 00:06:50 the glamo X driver? Jul 17 00:07:15 Yea. He's offered a bounty and will even sign an NDA. Jul 17 00:07:23 He is not an X developer. Jul 17 00:07:44 (He's a kernel developer.) Jul 17 00:08:02 X has a glamo driver already Jul 17 00:08:20 That too. I think it could be a lot better, though. Jul 17 00:08:39 (performance tuning, more operations accelerated, etc.) Jul 17 00:09:00 overclock support. Jul 17 00:09:49 there IS a glamo driver Jul 17 00:09:55 there IS an accelerated xserver Jul 17 00:10:06 and frankly it accelerates aboutas much as most xservers do Jul 17 00:10:09 ie not much Jul 17 00:10:12 i would be happy if it didn't crash after a couple of xrandr invocations, btu otherwise i think it's pretty good Jul 17 00:10:15 blits and solid fills Jul 17 00:10:25 and xv Jul 17 00:10:28 Would a kernel driver help? Jul 17 00:10:33 no Jul 17 00:10:41 kernel also has glamos drivers Jul 17 00:10:48 they do comepletely different things though :P Jul 17 00:11:29 there are no opengl drviers Jul 17 00:11:39 as 1. u need to do opnglES drivers Jul 17 00:11:50 or emulatur opengl + glx on top of GLES Jul 17 00:11:53 so how do you get wifi going without connecting to a desktop? Jul 17 00:12:01 GLES has many more limits than normal GL Jul 17 00:12:10 and GL would only be usable at qvga Jul 17 00:12:11 not vga Jul 17 00:12:17 as it simply vcannot draw at VGa res Jul 17 00:12:29 SirBob1701: im wondering that myself Jul 17 00:12:30 so for a regular usage of the device GLis useless as u have to drop res Jul 17 00:12:47 so its only useful for specific apps that go fullscreen Jul 17 00:12:57 even then it has lots of wonderful limits Jul 17 00:13:03 donomo: i can't get internet over usb to work so its a pain in the butt cause i'm trying to update all the packages and such arg Jul 17 00:13:03 256x256 max textue size Jul 17 00:13:04 it would be enough to enable clutter apps to run nicely i think Jul 17 00:13:06 no render to texture Jul 17 00:13:15 for starters Jul 17 00:13:27 balrog-k1n: nah. it wouldnt Jul 17 00:13:30 clutter only needs GLES Jul 17 00:13:34 no render-to-texture Jul 17 00:13:40 u have no intermediate buffers Jul 17 00:13:41 (pbuffers) Jul 17 00:13:52 WHICH GLES Jul 17 00:13:54 1.1 Jul 17 00:13:54 you can render to anywhere in vram Jul 17 00:13:56 2.0? Jul 17 00:14:18 checking.. Jul 17 00:14:22 johngay: kernel driver would give us an accelerated framebuffer device, which isn't very interesting. Jul 17 00:14:31 then u need to create a texture out of that again Jul 17 00:14:39 and as best i could see u'd ned to go via the cpu. Jul 17 00:15:05 GLES 1.1 is enough for clutter Jul 17 00:15:24 then i guess u miss the more interesting effects of clutter Jul 17 00:15:47 u are still stuck to qvga Jul 17 00:16:13 cjb: text performance is abysmal though without accellerated blits for scrolling. Jul 17 00:16:15 and needing to do ugly txture meshes to make up for 256x256 max tex size Jul 17 00:16:31 SpeedEvil: who needs an accelerated kernel fb anyway? Jul 17 00:16:37 SpeedEvil: thats what x is for Jul 17 00:16:37 :) Jul 17 00:16:58 Hrm. I'm trying to subscribe to the openmoko support list, but the mailman page is giving an error... Jul 17 00:18:23 thats the open source way of laughing at the idea of support. :) Jul 17 00:18:41 donomo: heh. Jul 17 00:23:46 raster: Earlier there was someone in here who, for no obvious reason, kept insisting that OM would be dead vs android if it doesn't get good OGL support promptly. "Okay, go code it plz" did not seem to phase him. Jul 17 00:24:23 balrog-k1n: according to my glamo docs its gles 1.0, not 1.1, and 1.0->1.1 is a huge change Jul 17 00:24:43 gmaxwell: Free software is surrounded by people like that. Ignore them. Jul 17 00:24:53 raster: ouch Jul 17 00:24:55 +1 to what tessier said Jul 17 00:25:07 balrog-k1n: i spent some time looking at it Jul 17 00:25:10 gmaxwell: OGL is part of hw support Jul 17 00:25:18 yep ... i generally tell people they can ask for they money back that they paid for their software :) Jul 17 00:25:19 balrog-k1n: the glamo is good for some cutsey simple 3d games .. in qvga Jul 17 00:25:31 gmaxwell: in linux if one framework codes the hw support, all frameworks can use it Jul 17 00:25:39 on a given hardware Jul 17 00:25:45 any docs on adding/removing applications on the asu home screen? Jul 17 00:25:50 so OGL is not really part of android or opemoko Jul 17 00:26:20 balrog-k1n: u want to get serious with "3d" u need more than glamo does.. imho Jul 17 00:26:23 russellb: but I want to IMPROVE the product by bitching about it! Jul 17 00:26:27 its a cute "toy" Jul 17 00:27:05 raster: glxgears on hardware would make me happy enough :) Jul 17 00:27:35 Stroller, I'd try to write a good essay on "Ideas are cheap, everyone can produce enough to keep the whole rest of the world busy. It's actions that count" ... but part of the problem with the BIGIDEAPEOPLE is that they don't read. Jul 17 00:27:43 balrog-k1n: hahahha Jul 17 00:27:52 lol Jul 17 00:27:52 balrog-k1n: the problem is the mountian of work to get there... Jul 17 00:28:06 balrog-k1n: and then knowing how much further it goes after that Jul 17 00:28:10 i can do glxgears WITHOUT gl Jul 17 00:28:12 i might have a go at it, even though it's not scratching any personal itch of mine Jul 17 00:28:14 hmm my wlan is up but its not resolving anything. can someone please help me? Jul 17 00:28:17 just draw polygons Jul 17 00:28:25 (ie accelerated strip fills) Jul 17 00:28:28 thats fast enough Jul 17 00:28:37 shit its just not resloving the repos Jul 17 00:28:38 in fact can do it in software... Jul 17 00:28:53 if it wasnt for the bus to glamo slowing that down a lot Jul 17 00:28:57 yea.. glxgears is probably not worth using the glamo on the slow bus for.. Jul 17 00:29:04 raster: right.. there's nothing a hardware can do that an ARM can't do in software Jul 17 00:29:20 SirBob1701: what does /etc/resolve.conf say? Jul 17 00:29:41 hardware implementations are much faster and lower power though.. Jul 17 00:30:01 Stroller: nameserver 208.67.222.222 nameserver 192.168.1.1 Jul 17 00:30:04 garphics hardware anyway (as opposed to coffee maker hardware eg) Jul 17 00:30:19 IMO low power doesn't matter. Jul 17 00:30:23 To a degree. Jul 17 00:30:28 SirBob1701: so 192.168.1.1 is your wireless gateway? Jul 17 00:30:30 speed matter? Jul 17 00:30:37 If the user is playing games, they are not going to care about the performance. Jul 17 00:30:44 battery life I mean Jul 17 00:30:45 biovore, doesn't matter for glxgears.. the glamo would not be faster .. it would be limited by the stupid bus.. Jul 17 00:31:01 Stroller: its a nameserver i pulled outta my desktops resolv.conf doesn't appear to do anything tho Jul 17 00:31:01 I guess your right Jul 17 00:31:18 sorta limited by the board layout.. Jul 17 00:31:23 and setup Jul 17 00:31:25 SirBob1701: pastebin ifconfig plz Jul 17 00:31:35 gmaxwell: wrong, the glxgears doesn't need to transfer anything to vram Jul 17 00:31:42 it has no textures Jul 17 00:31:44 Stroller: ok hold on Jul 17 00:31:52 i keep getting error 404 on opkg update Jul 17 00:31:58 i can ping www.google.com Jul 17 00:32:00 balrog-k1n, it has to write to the frame buffer... or do you not care to see it? :) Jul 17 00:32:14 balrog-k1n: well.. u need toi write registers for drawring the triangle points Jul 17 00:32:18 but.. its minimal Jul 17 00:32:21 the bus wont hurt that Jul 17 00:32:22 trappylappy: 404 on all files, or just the sigs? Jul 17 00:32:28 gmaxwell: that doesn't go through that bus Jul 17 00:32:42 Stroller: http://pastebin.ca/1073919 Jul 17 00:32:46 balrog-k1n, oh, my misunderstanding .. I thought glamo was one armed. Jul 17 00:32:54 Stroller, the sigs Jul 17 00:32:56 whats with the qvga limit then? Jul 17 00:33:10 trappylappy: everyone gets that. Ignore it Jul 17 00:33:18 as for power usage... you're already screwed by the modem, so anything you do on the cpu doesn't matter as much as on devices with no modem Jul 17 00:33:21 like palmots Jul 17 00:33:23 palmtops Jul 17 00:33:35 Stroller, well it goes back to the prompt then, does that mean I'm updated? Jul 17 00:33:47 SirBob1701: is that from the Freerunner? Jul 17 00:33:51 yup Jul 17 00:34:38 Stroller: ya Jul 17 00:34:47 trappylappy: it means your package database is updated. Now run `opkg upgrade` Jul 17 00:35:12 Stroller: i also can't scp anything to the freerunner. think that might have anything to do with it? Jul 17 00:35:18 trappylappy: you may wish to run `screen` first, to avoid getting problems when ssh is updated Jul 17 00:35:43 Stroller, so I just type "screen"? Jul 17 00:35:46 So wifi is eth0 on the freerunner? Jul 17 00:35:47 balrog-k1n, welll.. people can turn off the modem.. consider usage on an long flight Jul 17 00:35:49 gmaxwell: the max 3d buffer size for the glamo is 511x511 Jul 17 00:35:58 gmaxwell: thus it cant do vga (640x480) Jul 17 00:36:04 as max in any dimension is 511 Jul 17 00:36:08 trappylappy: yeah. Can be a bit moody. wait for a minute after typing it Jul 17 00:36:21 so u end up dropping down to the next resolution down the stack (that fits nicely on the lcd) Jul 17 00:36:25 thats qvga Jul 17 00:36:45 Stroller, ok, thanks Jul 17 00:37:05 raster: can you put 511*480 on the top of the screen, with a 128 pixel status/weapons/...bar? Jul 17 00:37:06 Stroller: According to what i read in teh wiki it is eth0 Jul 17 00:37:22 ( in principle - games at 640*480 are insane on 285dpi) Jul 17 00:37:23 raster, ahh.. could it output a 511x480px wide 3d area and leave the rest of the screen for something boring like a keyboard or status bar? Jul 17 00:37:31 SpeedEvil: as bst i can tell. no Jul 17 00:37:33 raster: wasn't the 512x512 a limitation for textures only? Jul 17 00:37:36 Stroller: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_WLAN or am i completely retarted and should be using eth1? Jul 17 00:37:38 the 511 will take over the screen Jul 17 00:37:48 :] Jul 17 00:37:55 hostile takeover! Jul 17 00:38:00 balrog-k1n: no. txtures are 256x256 Jul 17 00:38:16 SirBob1701: no, that loojks right Jul 17 00:38:17 balrog-k1n: OUTPUT buffer for 3d - where u draw. with zbuffer etc. 511x511 Jul 17 00:38:35 SirBob1701: so can you ping 206.190.60.37 ? Jul 17 00:38:42 SpeedEvil: i think you can, you can render to anywhere in the vram, then just blit the Nx480 rectangle that you're interested in to the screen Jul 17 00:38:49 nameserver nameserver namesercver Jul 17 00:39:00 0x1b00->0x2170 in glamo register space are the 3d registers Jul 17 00:39:06 a nice big fat wad of them Jul 17 00:39:10 and not well documented Jul 17 00:39:19 hm well 511x480 would cover 4/5 of the screen Jul 17 00:39:20 basically named with sparse info Jul 17 00:39:52 gmaxwell: yeah.. you could use the rest for some status information ;) Jul 17 00:40:04 Stroller: just been sitting there doing nothing Jul 17 00:40:08 Ok Jul 17 00:40:12 gmaxwell: perfect, it leaves the (640-511 px) x 480px strip for the FPS-meter Jul 17 00:40:13 ;) Jul 17 00:40:18 in glxgears Jul 17 00:40:19 balrog-k1n: from what smedia told m when 3d is active it takes over the output. Jul 17 00:40:24 So what does `route` say as default gateway, SirBob1701 ? Jul 17 00:40:30 nezza-_-, the keyboard I can't get to go away in minimo. :) Jul 17 00:40:41 in interfaces? Jul 17 00:40:42 raster: oh, no more 2d framebuffer? Jul 17 00:40:44 ie the buffer swapping and 3d etc. is all handled by the 3d subsystem Jul 17 00:40:52 Stroller: on the phone on interfaces? Jul 17 00:40:54 balrog-k1n: thats as it was explained to me Jul 17 00:40:55 STUPID! Jul 17 00:40:57 or seemed to be Jul 17 00:41:20 SirBob1701: on the phone Jul 17 00:41:24 gmaxwell: i tried to use a bluetooth keyboard with the standard openmoko iamge.. i thought "WHAT THE FUCK".. who is writing such crapy software? Jul 17 00:41:59 raster: there's probably some magic to switch to that mode that i missed then, when i tried to get a triangle out to the screen Jul 17 00:42:05 gmaxwell: you know this thing.. if you press a twice it gets a b -_- Jul 17 00:42:16 nezza-_-, eh, I was aware that bluetooth input wasn't working atm.. Did you get it working? Jul 17 00:42:25 raster: the 3d engine basically responded ok but nothing made its way to the lcd Jul 17 00:42:40 nezza-_-, Obviously, written by someone without a bluetooth keyboard. ;) Jul 17 00:42:44 gmaxwell: aeh.. sure ;) Jul 17 00:42:58 Stroller: http://pastebin.ca/1073926 Jul 17 00:42:59 gmaxwell: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Frogpad Jul 17 00:43:56 is frogpad chorded? thats kinda cute. Jul 17 00:44:02 balrog-k1n: there must be. somewhere. Jul 17 00:44:07 gmaxwell: no it isn't Jul 17 00:44:14 gmaxwell: there is one which is corded Jul 17 00:44:17 doesn't look like it would be very well adapted to EMACS, however. Jul 17 00:44:26 gmaxwell: the cordless is noramlly called ifrog ;) but i just call it frogpad Jul 17 00:44:34 bal he problem is the registers are nigh undocumnted Jul 17 00:44:35 SirBob1701: right - that's the problem, I think. You have the two default entries. You need only the 192.168.1.1 entry Jul 17 00:44:45 ok Jul 17 00:45:15 hehe I wanted to know if it was chorded, not corded. ;) Corded would have been my next question. Do you hold down multiple keys at once to type? Jul 17 00:45:23 well scantily Jul 17 00:45:29 gmaxwell: yes ;) Jul 17 00:46:03 gmaxwell: the black letters are written by just typing them.. the green ones are written by pressing 2 buttons at the same time Jul 17 00:46:08 gmaxwell: pretty easy Jul 17 00:46:38 Stroller: when i do a networking restart i get this though Reconfiguring network interfaces... usb0 no wireless extensions. Jul 17 00:46:45 Stroller: does that mean anythign? Jul 17 00:46:55 No idea Jul 17 00:47:07 But usb0 _doesn't_ have any wireless extensions Jul 17 00:47:11 So it's right Jul 17 00:47:15 SirBob1701: your problem is taht you cant get dns working? Jul 17 00:47:24 balrog-k1n: did u try and set the address to the be the normal 2d frontbuffer address? Jul 17 00:47:54 nezza-_-: ya. and i'm actually confused wehter the things trying to go over usb internet or my wifi cuase i think i set wep up correctly Jul 17 00:48:24 nezza-_-: he can't ping yahoo by IP, either Jul 17 00:48:44 nezza-_-: if you look at his last pastebin he has two default routes set Jul 17 00:48:51 Stroller: okay.. cause i had the same problem with dns.. but if he cant ping anything its an other thing ;) Jul 17 00:49:35 Stroller: nezza-_- think i should just try dling an image and flashing it? lol Jul 17 00:50:03 raster: not really, iirc i found no register that takes an pointer value for anything in the 3d eng space Jul 17 00:50:20 they do Jul 17 00:50:26 SirBob1701: no.. it was an other problem. Jul 17 00:51:03 nezza-_-: ok. thinking what i should do Jul 17 00:51:12 -_- Jul 17 00:52:08 balrog-k1n: EGZBAS Jul 17 00:52:13 (zbuffer base address) Jul 17 00:52:21 nezza-_-: it has to either be my /etc/network/interfaces or my wpa_supplicant.conf Jul 17 00:52:46 and EGDST0BAS Jul 17 00:52:49 for color data Jul 17 00:53:18 raster: i'll grep for these, thanks Jul 17 00:53:34 iu can set pitch Jul 17 00:53:40 but i dont see where to set height Jul 17 00:53:42 raster: i'm probably missing a whole chunk of the memory map :p as i only have the coe and not any docs Jul 17 00:53:52 nless u are meant to use clipping rects for that... Jul 17 00:56:24 SirBob1701: you could try route add -host 192.168.0.200 usb0 and route del default gw 192.168.0.202 Jul 17 00:58:16 Marcel_M: sites are resolving. getting four 404s on sigs but i think thats normal so thanks? :D Jul 17 00:58:39 SirBob1701: great! Jul 17 00:59:03 is this the place to ask for g_ether problems on my laptop? Jul 17 00:59:11 before i go before i hit this issue i was able to isntall tango gps but it was unclickable in my menu list why would that be? Jul 17 00:59:15 keep getting No device on modprobe g_ether Jul 17 01:02:55 also scp doesn't work worth a dang lol Jul 17 01:03:02 you broke it? Jul 17 01:04:05 where is the appropriate place for a newb to get help? Jul 17 01:04:33 Here Jul 17 01:04:34 zion: prolly the forum or mailing list for your distro Jul 17 01:04:38 or the wiki Jul 17 01:04:48 What does dmesg say after you plug the Freerunner in? Jul 17 01:04:50 probably the Getting_Started_with_your_Freerunner page Jul 17 01:05:58 dmesg doesn't mention the device by name. just says it found a new full speed device Jul 17 01:06:23 home pc it listed the name in dmesg... but i still had the same error Jul 17 01:06:45 So don't see: usb0: register 'cdc_ether' at usb-0000:00:07.2-1, CDC Ethernet Device, ee:8e:94:93:61:96 Jul 17 01:06:48 ? Jul 17 01:06:56 nope Jul 17 01:07:34 And, zion, when someone's trying to help you and they ask "what does it say?" you need to paste what it ACTUALLY SAYS. Use a pastebin service if it's more than one line Jul 17 01:07:51 k... didn't want to flood the channel Jul 17 01:07:57 Right, zion, so what distro are you using? Jul 17 01:08:04 gentoo Jul 17 01:08:05 Use a pastebin service if it's more than one line Jul 17 01:08:08 Ah Jul 17 01:08:24 just a sec... will paste it in pastebin Jul 17 01:09:14 http://pastebin.com/d66de6033 Jul 17 01:09:23 thats the relevant dmesg Jul 17 01:10:06 Some channels say no pasting, not even one line. So I have to manually type in my pastebin url. :| Jul 17 01:10:09 * tessier snickers Jul 17 01:10:58 my n810 and camera work fine, though those are just usb storage devices Jul 17 01:11:57 * SpeedEvil sighs. Jul 17 01:12:02 zion: http://pastebin.com/m562c0046 Jul 17 01:12:19 My neo just put all the lights in the room out, and took down my server. Jul 17 01:12:30 ok... i need a thwap.. cdc_ether is not enabled in the kernel Jul 17 01:12:36 zion: :P Jul 17 01:12:37 * SpeedEvil notes down never to put neo on top of power button when trying to get GPS signal. Jul 17 01:13:09 SpeedEvil: My TTFS is much better when it is actually turned on. Jul 17 01:13:12 TTFF Jul 17 01:13:48 tessier: oops. Jul 17 01:14:18 is there a gui interface for opkg? Jul 17 01:15:38 I am also on the hunt for a workign sim card. Jul 17 01:15:57 zion: soon to be a major motion picture! Jul 17 01:16:10 zion: can you do a russian accent though? Jul 17 01:16:25 Up periscope! Jul 17 01:16:38 kelvie_work: No Jul 17 01:16:44 Vodafone at 2 o'clock, captain Jul 17 01:16:59 One ping only! Jul 17 01:16:59 tessier: ah Jul 17 01:17:01 so the ebay dance is the best bet for one? Jul 17 01:17:03 In America I will have a station wagon. I have always wanted a station wagon. Jul 17 01:17:12 zion: Best bet for one what? Jul 17 01:17:21 Some things in here don't react well to bullets. Jul 17 01:18:04 Stroller: And a round American wife. Will you have one of those too? God knows they're everywhere. Jul 17 01:18:43 Hmmm.... would rather a skinny Russian wife, myself Jul 17 01:18:57 zion: what country are you in? Jul 17 01:18:57 You can raise rabbits. And she can cook them for you. Jul 17 01:19:01 Nooo! Jul 17 01:19:04 Stroller: you're not going all Reiser on us are you? Jul 17 01:19:04 Not my bunnies! Jul 17 01:19:12 lolololkloololol Jul 17 01:19:27 He should've appealed Jul 17 01:19:28 o.O Jul 17 01:19:48 Stroller: well - ... Taking them to where the corpse is buried weakens your grounds for later appeal. Jul 17 01:20:09 Exactly! Jul 17 01:20:11 I'm pretty sure of this, though I'm not a lawyer. Jul 17 01:20:23 reiser was an idiot at murder :P Jul 17 01:20:40 Should've held his bottle, IMO. Jul 17 01:20:42 honestly, who's going to believe you took out your passenger seat so you could take naps? Jul 17 01:20:58 ieatlint: well... he did have damaged feet. Jul 17 01:21:12 plus i don't believe he strangled her as he claimed Jul 17 01:21:14 ieatlint: but that is kind of weak. Jul 17 01:21:26 there isn't much blood to clean up when you strangle someone Jul 17 01:21:47 * SpeedEvil notes ieatlint's done it before. Jul 17 01:21:52 Who was she? Jul 17 01:22:03 who said it was a she? Jul 17 01:22:06 Ah. Jul 17 01:22:09 it puts the lotion on its skin.. Jul 17 01:22:31 * SpeedEvil has killed before. Jul 17 01:22:35 But only chickens. Jul 17 01:22:45 and hard disks Jul 17 01:22:53 i've had to kill about half a dozen mice in the past 3 months :( Jul 17 01:22:58 poor little guys Jul 17 01:23:02 Oh - I wasn't counting the mice. Jul 17 01:23:09 I try to catch them humanely if I can. Jul 17 01:23:17 The cats enjoy them much more that way. Jul 17 01:23:20 we tried... ended up using glue traps Jul 17 01:23:32 and then i'd drown them Jul 17 01:23:36 lol Jul 17 01:23:51 * SpeedEvil ponders an openmoko mousetrap. Jul 17 01:24:16 :o Jul 17 01:24:56 i hate killing small furry animals... Jul 17 01:25:00 i much prefer humans Jul 17 01:25:06 :O Jul 17 01:25:48 reiser is in jail so he can't be on the mousetrap-dev team Jul 17 01:26:10 I like to crucify mice in their natural environment. Serves as a warning to the rest of them. Jul 17 01:26:11 lolol Jul 17 01:26:26 he can't? Jul 17 01:26:28 I'm sure I'll NEVER get bored of Hans Reiser jokes Jul 17 01:26:33 reiser isn't far from here Jul 17 01:26:34 was that one of the stipulations of his conviction? Jul 17 01:26:40 no more development? Jul 17 01:26:50 or was he simply banned from fs dev? :D Jul 17 01:27:00 i disliked reiserfs anyway :P Jul 17 01:27:03 must be driving him nuts Jul 17 01:27:58 BANANAS Jul 17 01:28:01 Hey - free support! Jul 17 01:28:06 haw Jul 17 01:28:20 There aren't many FS devs you know where they are, and can visit for questions. Jul 17 01:28:37 lol Jul 17 01:28:51 yeah, i should go over with my laptop "i'm getting fs errors, can you help?" Jul 17 01:32:37 neone here able to help a n00b with a brand new freerunner... trying to get wifi working Jul 17 01:32:40 matchbox keyboard's 0 key isn't working Jul 17 01:32:44 i can't get any zeros! Jul 17 01:32:52 and then Jul 17 01:33:00 "this program killed^H^H^H^Hoverwrote my fs" Jul 17 01:33:51 back. Jul 17 01:33:59 just got in via ssh to my phone over usb Jul 17 01:34:06 * zion does a dance of rejoicing Jul 17 01:34:36 Stroller: I am in the US Jul 17 01:35:34 AH, ok. I don't know anything about buying SIMs there Jul 17 01:35:37 matchbox keyboard is so incredibly small. Jul 17 01:35:40 openmoko: 03tick * r4532 10/trunk/src/host/opkg-utils/: opkg-utils: add the directory of opkg-utils Jul 17 01:35:50 You can't just go into a store & buy a PAYG SIM? Jul 17 01:37:44 Stroller: Often not. :( Jul 17 01:37:51 Stroller: Everyone wants to get you on a contract. Jul 17 01:38:06 I did once go into an AT&T store and get a pay as you go SIM for a friend visiting from abroad though. Jul 17 01:38:19 So check with AT&T Jul 17 01:38:35 They give PAYG SIMS away free here Jul 17 01:38:47 any suggestion or links to getting wifi working? Jul 17 01:39:01 i can't ssh into my neo on usb! Jul 17 01:39:33 after opkg upgrade Jul 17 01:41:29 I have one the broken sims with my current cell Jul 17 01:42:03 so is the broken issue caused by drm that the TI firmware can't handle? (recall reading that in some bug report) Jul 17 01:42:34 Mokon00b: Check the wiki Jul 17 01:42:50 Mokon00b: I got wifi working easily with an open AP. It doesn't work with WEP or WPA though. Jul 17 01:44:52 so when i try to transfer file over via scp and the connection is refused what can i do so that it isn't refused? Jul 17 01:45:11 Can you ssh in still? Jul 17 01:45:15 i can't connect via USB, can someone help? Jul 17 01:45:16 yup Jul 17 01:45:29 Sounds like you just got the scp syntax wrong Jul 17 01:45:42 Stroller: i'm pulling the syntax off the wiki Jul 17 01:45:54 I lost that link, SirBob1701 Jul 17 01:46:06 tessier ahh that my prob i was trying with wep Jul 17 01:46:11 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/gpsd_2.34-r9_armv4t.ipk scroll down to the section about mimo Jul 17 01:47:04 another quick question.. is there a way to open sms messages? I only see the first line of message Jul 17 01:47:10 i was able to ssh via usb until I did the opkg upgrade and then reboot Jul 17 01:47:34 trappylappy: so start again the setup from scratch Jul 17 01:47:49 can you ping it &c? Jul 17 01:48:07 doesn't ping Jul 17 01:48:09 stop whining and work on getting information about what the problem is Jul 17 01:48:21 what is the entry I put in opkg.conf to get to a point somewhere else for the package list? Jul 17 01:48:22 so does usb0 show on your laptop? Jul 17 01:48:25 Stroller, you don't have to be an ass, I'm asking for help Jul 17 01:48:27 haha... i just found out what my girlfriend got me for my birthday... a soldering iron Jul 17 01:48:28 in ifconfig Jul 17 01:48:37 trappylappy: no, you're whining for help Jul 17 01:48:44 Stroller, usb0 does show up Jul 17 01:49:05 Stroller, there's a difference between not knowing what to do and whining Jul 17 01:49:10 how do i find open ports without iptables? lol Jul 17 01:49:35 trappylappy: so does usb0 still have an IP address on the laptop? Jul 17 01:49:56 Stroller, no Jul 17 01:50:01 trappylappy: have you tried oping terminal on the Freerunner and running `ifconfig` there? Jul 17 01:50:14 travellappy - do the upgrade from the phone terminal Jul 17 01:50:25 Stroller, yeah, ifconfig on the Freerunner gives me usb0 with 192.168.0.200 Jul 17 01:50:39 trappylappy: right. So go back to the "getting started" webpage and give it an IP address Jul 17 01:50:53 trappylappy: that's unusual. By default it's 202 on the FR Jul 17 01:51:03 sorry, I meant 202 Jul 17 01:51:26 trappylappy: right. So go back to the "getting started" webpage and give usb0 on the laptop an IP address Jul 17 01:51:43 Stroller, ok, thanks Jul 17 01:51:50 SirBob1701: what are you trying to do? Jul 17 01:52:55 Stroller: trying to install minimo and the single touch keyboard on the free runner. They are not in repos so the instrcutions say to scp the .ipk s to the freerunner but its denying my connection Jul 17 01:54:02 SirBob1701: if you can ssh in you should be able to ssh in Jul 17 01:54:28 When you gave the link before I think you gave the wrong one Jul 17 01:54:48 Stroller: tell me about it. thats why i'm confused..ooo wait its cause instructions say to use the name openmoko but i ssh in via the ip. never put it in my etc/hosts lol Jul 17 01:54:54 Ubuntu can SFtp the Neo and i assume the FR, its under network connections. I like it Jul 17 01:55:48 is there a way to mass download map tiles for diversity? Jul 17 01:59:49 man everytime i run opkg update opkg upgrade there are a crapload of updates. and i only got it a week after release lol Jul 17 02:00:23 AntonTakk: diversity? Jul 17 02:00:43 SpeedEvil: the mapping app on ASU Jul 17 02:00:50 Ah - not seen it. Jul 17 02:01:01 SpeedEvil: ASU is the only image that will make/receive calls/sms for me Jul 17 02:01:20 AntonTakk: does diversity use OSN? Jul 17 02:01:26 ah, well, if i remember correctly, the map tiles can be pre-downloaded for tangogps, right? Jul 17 02:01:31 osn? Jul 17 02:01:35 OSM Jul 17 02:01:42 no idea Jul 17 02:01:45 yes Jul 17 02:01:55 AntonTakk: yes, tangogps can do that. Jul 17 02:01:55 the maps are identical between diversity and tangogps Jul 17 02:02:17 cept the tangogps ui seems quicker :) Jul 17 02:02:20 AntonTakk: I thought diversity was still dumb? Jul 17 02:02:24 I have no idea if diversity has the same issue. Jul 17 02:02:33 ability Jul 17 02:02:48 right click and select Zoom level for DL, thats all I know Jul 17 02:03:12 SirBob1701: nope, i have used it to get fixes three times today Jul 17 02:03:19 That's touch with your right hand? :) Jul 17 02:03:30 oops lol, I have it on my laptop too Jul 17 02:03:43 (which would be really cool) Jul 17 02:03:52 (per-finger touches) Jul 17 02:04:36 yup, I still use the GPS from my Neo, it gets a fix pretty fast Jul 17 02:04:52 i get a fix in 49 secs Jul 17 02:05:18 but my sim doesnt work :/ Jul 17 02:05:47 hmm im missig something here.. wireless is configured as per wiki and still no connection Jul 17 02:05:48 * SpeedEvil sets that to country music. Jul 17 02:06:05 my SIM works, but not the GSM radio (in my area) Jul 17 02:06:16 Mokon00b: wep or wpa? Jul 17 02:07:09 should be safe to install gpsd/tangogps on ASU, right? Jul 17 02:07:12 took off encryption 4 now Jul 17 02:07:20 so open Jul 17 02:07:42 AntonTakk: from what i've read yes Jul 17 02:07:47 AntonTakk: if it works let me know lol Jul 17 02:07:54 Mokon00b: eh just use Mac filtering lol Jul 17 02:08:00 AntonTakk: Does asu have reliable sms? Jul 17 02:08:23 SirBob1701: happen to know where I need to put .desktop files to have the app appear on asu's home screen? Jul 17 02:08:35 SirBob1701: seems to from what i have seen Jul 17 02:08:38 heh.. no im testing on neighbours wifi Jul 17 02:08:59 am able to connect wiht my lappy so i know it is open Jul 17 02:09:04 yes "Testing" jk Jul 17 02:09:56 AntonTakk: no sorry i thought it was suppose to just appear with an x restart Jul 17 02:10:16 OM needs locate Jul 17 02:10:17 hrm, xrestart, let me try Jul 17 02:11:05 nope, didn't do it Jul 17 02:11:30 hmm Jul 17 02:11:50 * AntonTakk runs a find / -name assassin.desktop :) Jul 17 02:12:02 are there any forums or anything other than wiki where I might be able to find info or other peeps with wifi probs? Jul 17 02:12:14 :D Jul 17 02:12:34 i think i still have wifi probs so if you do let me know Mokon00b Jul 17 02:13:34 see if monitor mode existed we could test these things Jul 17 02:13:44 Mokon00b: have you flashed it with the latest kernel/image? Jul 17 02:13:50 I had wifi issues until I updated Jul 17 02:14:00 nope Jul 17 02:14:09 didnt want to just yet Jul 17 02:14:16 just got it today Jul 17 02:16:12 any good minimalistic images with X11? Jul 17 02:17:37 doc|home: you've got them? :D Jul 17 02:27:59 i just spent 10 minutes trying to fix my ssh with ifconfig usb0 up <---no ip DUH Jul 17 02:32:29 hola Jul 17 02:32:44 anyone try the qtopia.net image? Jul 17 02:32:59 you lot Jul 17 02:33:03 anyone try the qtopia.net image? Jul 17 02:33:08 doh Jul 17 02:33:08 yo, chox. Jul 17 02:33:35 are there any other SMS apps? Jul 17 02:33:43 opkg list | grep -i sms Jul 17 02:34:01 cause the one in the image leaves a bit to be desired Jul 17 02:34:24 i'm running opkg update over wifi and everything errors. Not just the sigs, but everything. I can ping openmoko.org just fine though, any ideas? Jul 17 02:34:44 That's whacky Jul 17 02:34:54 yeah, it is Jul 17 02:34:56 http://www.wellingtongrey.net/miscellanea/archive/2008-03-31-the-trouble-with-tech-support.html Jul 17 02:35:09 signature checks are normal, and a couple 404's a the end too Jul 17 02:35:14 (link completely unrelated) Jul 17 02:35:26 Stroller, haha, i was wondering Jul 17 02:35:29 hm, Emdebian making progress. Jul 17 02:35:37 that's a better choice than full Debian for FR Jul 17 02:35:42 not as fat Jul 17 02:35:51 any multi-media message apps? Jul 17 02:36:21 wonder why usb0 does not auto config for me even though I have /etc/network/interfaces setup correctly Jul 17 02:36:27 bet it has to do with network manager Jul 17 02:36:29 iowaboy: so what does ` opkg upgrade` do? Jul 17 02:36:38 let me see Jul 17 02:36:43 my battery died at the end of the day today when I had the phone at work :-/. Jul 17 02:37:08 for some reason, people are super impressed by my phone, even before they know what it can do Jul 17 02:37:18 it's very strange. maybe cos it looks odd Jul 17 02:37:23 unreadable nagios pages via SMS Jul 17 02:37:25 clear Jul 17 02:37:28 *joy* ;P Jul 17 02:37:28 oops Jul 17 02:37:45 I'm getting opkg update errors too. Jul 17 02:37:53 * Failed to download http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/all/Packages.gz, error 0 Jul 17 02:37:56 oh, wait Jul 17 02:38:02 Stroller, Package ncurses wants to install file /usr/lib/libncurses.so.5 But that file is already provided by package * libncurses5 Jul 17 02:38:14 forgot to change DNS from work to home Jul 17 02:38:29 iowaboy: opkg remove ncurses Jul 17 02:38:32 iowaboy: hmmmmn.... I only got that after ` opkg update` was successful Jul 17 02:38:32 I just get sig check failures Jul 17 02:38:39 sig check failures you can ignore Jul 17 02:38:44 iowaboy: that one's in Trac, BTW Jul 17 02:38:51 Chox: the impressiveness is due to the mind control unit. It's hooked to the third secret USB bus. Jul 17 02:38:51 404 on Packages.sig Jul 17 02:39:01 SpeedEvil: ah yes, forgot about that one. Jul 17 02:39:05 gah Jul 17 02:39:18 anyone know why FIC shipped with "must be signed for"? Jul 17 02:39:21 * Chox didn't answer any questions about price today. but I let an 8 year old use it on the train Jul 17 02:39:25 Stroller, ah Jul 17 02:39:31 Chox: people are super impressed by your phone? Do you hang around with a lot of Linux geeks? Jul 17 02:39:32 Daviey: cos it's expensive. Jul 17 02:39:33 daMaestro: because otherwise it gets stolen? Jul 17 02:39:36 fraud probably Jul 17 02:39:40 Stroller: these are non-Linux people Jul 17 02:39:49 yeah, still gah Jul 17 02:39:53 er, daMaestro Jul 17 02:40:01 * chillywilly tries running 'opkg upgrade' Jul 17 02:40:16 hell if I ordered it and it was just lying on my porch when I got home..... Jul 17 02:40:20 I need to reflash with default image, then do tutorial for opkg ugprade Jul 17 02:40:28 Oh! Cool! Balck! Amazing! WTF?!?!? You have to install a web-browser using DOS? Jul 17 02:40:32 KrisAbsinthe_Mob: aye, $4000 work of fones :p Jul 17 02:40:32 Chox: it says removing ncurses might cease a bunch of dependencies Jul 17 02:40:33 Hey iowaboy - what part of Iowa? Jul 17 02:40:33 anyone try qtopia.net at all? Jul 17 02:40:40 rtm, ISU Jul 17 02:40:47 rtm, you? Jul 17 02:40:48 chillywilly: no, why bother? Jul 17 02:40:59 chillywilly: just use the OM qtopia images Jul 17 02:41:03 Des Moines Jul 17 02:41:05 Chox: cause maybe the apps will be better and more featureful Jul 17 02:41:09 iowaboy: https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1569 Jul 17 02:41:11 Chox: I did not care for the interface Jul 17 02:41:16 nor I Jul 17 02:41:18 it sucks. Jul 17 02:41:21 Stroller, gracias Jul 17 02:41:25 I like the GTK interface, but the apps need work ;P Jul 17 02:41:27 but it'll be the same stuff, surely Jul 17 02:41:54 I wish the screen were bigger and it had a stylus in the case Jul 17 02:42:07 will it? Jul 17 02:42:10 stylus fits in the case, but only just Jul 17 02:42:12 I want a bigger screen. Jul 17 02:42:15 I know, they should have built in a stylus holder Jul 17 02:42:22 there is one! Jul 17 02:42:27 where? Jul 17 02:42:27 it's the webbing in the inside Jul 17 02:42:30 chillywilly, well know that there are more people with actual units in their hands we should see much more development Jul 17 02:42:38 I have a 1973 Jul 17 02:43:02 does the 1973 have a bigger screen or do my eyes deceive me? Jul 17 02:43:10 I'm just going to have to start trimming my nail into a makeshift stylus. Jul 17 02:43:25 that's hardcore. although guitar players do that. Jul 17 02:43:30 what happened to the menus and such that I see on some screenshots with the 1973...the interface looks a lot more mature in some older screenshots I have seen Jul 17 02:43:35 chillywilly: exactly hte same sie Jul 17 02:43:41 ok Jul 17 02:43:47 chillywilly: it got changed! Jul 17 02:43:53 chillywilly: change is good! Jul 17 02:43:58 not always Jul 17 02:44:06 chillywilly: even if the old interface seemed as if it was almost stable. Jul 17 02:44:07 what screenshots? Jul 17 02:44:13 I want a full keyboard that I can use with my fat fingers ;) Jul 17 02:44:16 I dont like the new stuff Jul 17 02:44:35 one sec...I'll have to dis something up Jul 17 02:44:35 chillywilly, isn't there a finger keyboard being developed? Pretty sure I saw it on the project pages Jul 17 02:44:37 dig* Jul 17 02:44:44 where? Jul 17 02:45:08 I am just starting to get into the swing of things so...wtf do I know Jul 17 02:45:11 chillywilly, http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/finger-keyboard/ Jul 17 02:45:21 still in alpha though Jul 17 02:45:29 ok Jul 17 02:45:43 wish I had more time to do development again Jul 17 02:45:55 gotta make time ;) Jul 17 02:46:30 it's so confusing now though as it seems the project has splintered with all the images floating around Jul 17 02:46:43 differen UIs...and now a rewrite of the backend Jul 17 02:46:48 I should load FSO once for grins Jul 17 02:46:55 I want to try them all ;P Jul 17 02:47:20 That's the nature of open source projects... Some of them will die out, only the fittest will survive. Jul 17 02:48:00 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOG_mtSEMgs Jul 17 02:48:03 that looks neat Jul 17 02:48:14 qtopia on 1973 Jul 17 02:48:20 I would like to try WM6 on it HA HA HA Jul 17 02:48:26 Joking Jul 17 02:48:37 My FreeRunner is stuck on "Registering" Anyone got an 3G AT&T SIM working? Jul 17 02:48:44 KrisAbsinthe_Mob: you can - with qemu! Jul 17 02:48:58 thats funny Jul 17 02:49:00 KrisAbsinthe_Mob: it'll be about a P5 or so. Jul 17 02:49:14 Looks like the wiki still reports it doesn't work with the 1973 Jul 17 02:49:17 (that's a pentium I at 5MHz - not a Pentium five) Jul 17 02:49:18 rockstar: I did, model 7300g Jul 17 02:49:58 rockstar: you have a FR? Jul 17 02:50:05 Nevermind im a fool Jul 17 02:50:25 I have a 71234G Jul 17 02:50:41 rockstar, a buddy of mine has that too, doesn't look good Jul 17 02:50:59 I cant believe they released the FR with the SIM problem Jul 17 02:51:15 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR4ezMgRlWo&feature=related <-- I was talking about the interface shown here...I like that one better than the new one Jul 17 02:51:22 to tell you the truth Jul 17 02:51:23 * Chocky_ IMs you a fool Jul 17 02:51:44 KrisAbsinthe_Mob, if my SIM doesn't work, it's off to eBay Jul 17 02:51:46 Does ppp say anything? Jul 17 02:51:47 oops Jul 17 02:52:51 You could try and talk a AT&T clerk into letting you try a few before you buy Jul 17 02:52:53 rockstar: make sure you put it in the right way... it's possible to get it wrong-way-'round Jul 17 02:53:05 Yea, it's in the right way. Jul 17 02:53:42 chillywilly: thats the OM 2007.1 version, I liked it too Jul 17 02:53:51 KrisAbsinthe_Mob, I'm sure they'll only give me newer SIMs that aren't supported either. Jul 17 02:54:19 rockstar: probably, I have one out if 10 that works with my 1973 Jul 17 02:54:19 On boot, it just continues to say "Registering..." Jul 17 02:54:35 *of Jul 17 02:54:46 rockstar, another thing is to try to go to walmart or bestbuy and get a shitty pre-pay phone and try the SIMs in there Jul 17 02:54:55 KrisAbsinthe_Mob, well, the 1973 wasn't supposed to be usable. Jul 17 02:55:55 well at one point I had the full keyboard thing installed and that seemed a bit better but too small for the fingers Jul 17 02:55:57 rockstar: i was ok with that issue but it made it to the FR and they over looked a major GSM issue , rendering my GSM useless, i was upset that they cant fix it even if I paid them Jul 17 02:56:11 It is running old software. Maybe if I flash it, it will work. Jul 17 02:56:44 did you issue any GSM commands Jul 17 02:57:08 btw, can you turn off the touch screen "click" sound? Jul 17 02:57:09 No, but I don't feel like typing T9 in a terminal. Jul 17 02:57:23 ssh Jul 17 02:57:51 i dont think AT commands will solve the 3g issue Jul 17 02:58:03 sim* Jul 17 02:58:48 I would verify before selling the FR though Jul 17 02:59:05 OR buy some old ladies old phone from craigslist? Jul 17 02:59:16 for the SIM Jul 17 02:59:47 What kind of AT commands should I issue? Jul 17 02:59:49 also maybe the cloned SIM cards will work, bit risky though **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jul 17 02:59:57 2008