**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 17 02:59:57 2008 Jul 17 03:00:29 I would just do a simple list operators, you should get a CME error 13 if your sim is busted Jul 17 03:00:40 at+cops=? Jul 17 03:00:45 IIRC Jul 17 03:01:04 yeah thats it lol, been a while since I used my GSM Jul 17 03:01:29 libgsm-tool -m atcmd is that right for the FR Jul 17 03:02:40 maybe Jul 17 03:03:25 woohoo im oon wifi Jul 17 03:03:33 -sh: libgsm-tool: not found Jul 17 03:03:35 IM = instant message Jul 17 03:04:01 you can use cu to call the tty Jul 17 03:05:30 I like using Uboot to talk to the modem though, its simple and damn near flawless Jul 17 03:10:32 'opkj not found' Jul 17 03:13:30 whereis opkj Jul 17 03:13:35 opkg Jul 17 03:14:48 dog Jul 17 03:14:50 doh Jul 17 03:15:00 ty Jul 17 03:15:02 my bad Jul 17 03:15:03 heh Jul 17 03:15:10 I'd try wifi if my flippin router was working...;P Jul 17 03:15:14 damn these images leave no room for anything on my 1973 Jul 17 03:15:21 np Jul 17 03:15:24 KrisAbsinthe_Mob: SD Jul 17 03:15:24 can't find it on the lan...it has openwrt on it ;P Jul 17 03:15:34 I can get to it in failsafe... Jul 17 03:15:35 actually i've had more problems with talking to modem through u-boot that linux :p Jul 17 03:15:39 stupid thing Jul 17 03:15:48 it has problems on the usb tty sid Jul 17 03:15:49 e Jul 17 03:15:54 I got that just killing me, TangoGPS, GPSD and gliin fills the mem Jul 17 03:15:56 skips some characters Jul 17 03:17:18 balrogkun^^ Jul 17 03:19:45 KrisAbsinthe_Mob: swapon /media/card/swap Jul 17 03:20:16 Is the ASU the most recent firmware? 20080424? Jul 17 03:20:44 Dave: o/ Jul 17 03:20:53 no, the buildhost makes a new most recent firmware everyday Jul 17 03:21:01 swapon: can't stat '/media/mmcblk0p5/swap': No such file or directory Jul 17 03:21:26 :) Jul 17 03:21:46 balrog-kun, well, I mean stable... Jul 17 03:22:14 are there any qwerty keyboards besides the complete one? looking for something a bit easier to actually hit the keys on Jul 17 03:22:14 lol Jul 17 03:22:38 SirBob1701, I bet it's harder to find a Dvorak... :) Jul 17 03:22:45 true lol Jul 17 03:22:48 i can't hit the 0 on the matchbox keyboard Jul 17 03:22:49 haha Jul 17 03:22:51 rockstar: stability is hard to measure... but it generally increases all the time Jul 17 03:23:00 but i could remap that qwerty to dvorak Jul 17 03:23:38 lol i've just been running opkg update opkg upgrade and restarting for like 3 hours now yeesh Jul 17 03:25:09 how would I uninstall matchbox and reinstall the old keyboard? Jul 17 03:25:31 opkg remove matchbox-keyboard? Jul 17 03:25:55 ya i just opkg list | grep keyboard removed the installed files and then reinstaleld matchbox one Jul 17 03:26:11 note that the grep doesn't list just the ones you just installed Jul 17 03:26:39 there any programs that allow you to change / disable ringtone? Jul 17 03:28:10 :) Jul 17 03:28:21 Time to find my sexy gis scriptsssssssss Jul 17 03:31:33 balrogkun and decreases when somebody makes an *oops* :p Jul 17 03:32:31 So, I just reflashed with the image from http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Freerunner/ and pawored up the GSM antenna. No luck with the SIM Jul 17 03:33:17 rockstar - assy - what country are you in? Jul 17 03:33:32 Dave, U.S. on AT&T Jul 17 03:33:37 doh no outgoing calls now Jul 17 03:33:37 grr Jul 17 03:33:55 Are you using a SIM card with a non pay as you go type plan? Jul 17 03:34:05 I think we should make that the standard channel response to any question. What country are you in? Jul 17 03:34:07 well what the heck are people using for an every day phone ;P? Jul 17 03:34:23 I've heard allegations stating that some people believe that only the pay as you go AT&T 3G SIMs work in the freerunner so far. Jul 17 03:34:31 Stroller, yeah Jul 17 03:34:45 chillywilly, surely not their freerunner :P Jul 17 03:34:58 I attmpted that today Jul 17 03:35:01 I think they will convert a Pay-as-you-go to a contract Jul 17 03:35:01 likely an iBlasphemy Jul 17 03:35:01 ;P Jul 17 03:35:53 yea I've been thinking about getting a 3G iOwnzj00 Jul 17 03:36:04 Dave, yes Jul 17 03:36:12 the screens on those things ar huge Jul 17 03:36:15 are* Jul 17 03:36:24 on what? Jul 17 03:36:44 Dude, Apple technology is nothing but an lcd Jul 17 03:36:50 on the iXXX Jul 17 03:36:53 with stuff crammed behind it Jul 17 03:37:03 I think I am 99% accurate across the board right there :P Jul 17 03:37:04 iCrud Jul 17 03:37:12 even their PC's are like that, I am told Jul 17 03:37:12 hah Jul 17 03:37:20 not that anyone else is complaining, but still :P Jul 17 03:37:31 * jeffszusz likes MOST apple things Jul 17 03:37:40 I don't understand the point of your statement Jul 17 03:37:41 heh, most? Jul 17 03:37:46 it's purty.... Jul 17 03:37:49 What, you don't appreciate the iMac? Jul 17 03:38:04 or iPod Flimsy Jul 17 03:38:13 or whatever their latest failure is Jul 17 03:38:14 ipods newer than 5thgen video are ghey...(rockbox and ipodlinux won't install on the new shit!) and the nano is too delicate Jul 17 03:38:28 right :P Jul 17 03:38:36 thought pretty slick marketing Jul 17 03:38:45 my old metal ipod mini can withstand a collision with a tracktor trailor Jul 17 03:38:45 way to subliminally rape the consumer market! Jul 17 03:38:57 You know, if the phone just made calls, I'd be happy to test the other features as they came around. This doesn't even make calls. Jul 17 03:39:01 my cat could ruin a nano Jul 17 03:39:49 and! they made the imacs ugly. they should be white and shiny still. Jul 17 03:41:08 how does one suspend the FR? Jul 17 03:41:14 :x Jul 17 03:41:21 iowaboy: what country are you in? Jul 17 03:41:21 Try again in a few weeks :p Jul 17 03:41:26 Stroller ;D Jul 17 03:41:29 * Dave high-fives sTroller Jul 17 03:41:33 :D Jul 17 03:41:39 good call :p Jul 17 03:41:45 ? Jul 17 03:42:16 * rockstar puts the latest ASU on the FR, in hopes that the SIM might work Jul 17 03:42:51 doesn't ring for an incoming call anymore either Jul 17 03:42:52 might Jul 17 03:42:57 rockstar, otherwise try qtopia Jul 17 03:43:14 Dave, I thought ASU was Qtopia Jul 17 03:43:23 No _ Jul 17 03:43:25 ~_~ Jul 17 03:43:26 STOP DOING THAT! Jul 17 03:43:39 ~_~ Jul 17 03:43:40 STOP DOING THAT! Jul 17 03:43:46 lol Jul 17 03:43:49 rockstar, ASU is the Openmoko-Qtopia hybrid, essentially, the pure Qtopia image is something different. Jul 17 03:43:51 * chillywilly considers trying qtopia Jul 17 03:43:53 Stroller: STOP DOING THAT! Jul 17 03:44:07 Ah, but there was also another Hybrid image too. Jul 17 03:44:08 Sorry. I cannot do that, Dave Jul 17 03:44:15 ~_Z Jul 17 03:44:18 ~_~ Jul 17 03:44:19 STOP DOING THAT! Jul 17 03:44:30 i like linux Jul 17 03:44:35 s/linux/bsd/ Jul 17 03:44:35 ieatlint meant: i like bsd Jul 17 03:44:40 I like Turtles Jul 17 03:44:42 rockstar, yeah Jul 17 03:44:43 no seriously, i don't see anything about suspend Jul 17 03:44:46 Stroller :) Jul 17 03:44:52 c[,,] Jul 17 03:44:56 c/,,\ Jul 17 03:45:09 iowaboy: I think there was something about it on -coommunity today Jul 17 03:45:16 iowaboy: I think there was something about it on -community, even Jul 17 03:45:27 ok, thanks Jul 17 03:45:34 best cross compiling error i've had yet: checking abstract socket namespace... configure: error: cannot run test program while cross compiling Jul 17 03:45:41 anyone know how fast the data transfer is on the openmoko for cellular internet? Jul 17 03:45:47 It's EDGE supposedly ? Jul 17 03:45:53 no, gprs Jul 17 03:45:57 class 12 i think Jul 17 03:46:28 gprs... faster than edge? slower ? Jul 17 03:46:35 I'm just calculating if I can do voip with it Jul 17 03:46:47 slower Jul 17 03:46:52 no, you can't do voip with it Jul 17 03:47:16 ?? Jul 17 03:47:17 56kbit/s... almost enough Jul 17 03:47:17 might be Jul 17 03:47:50 I think you should be able to get 300mbps or so data on the FR, if the local cell towers are setup right Jul 17 03:48:28 ...300mbps? over gprs? what? Jul 17 03:48:29 the latency would also be crazy Jul 17 03:48:39 wikipedia says "It provides data rates from 56 up to 114 kbit/s" Jul 17 03:48:42 Sorry Jul 17 03:48:44 300kbps Jul 17 03:48:59 edge is 300kbps Jul 17 03:49:02 heh Jul 17 03:49:03 huh? Jul 17 03:49:08 gprs is slow Jul 17 03:49:17 expect gprs to be ~60kbit down, 40kbit up Jul 17 03:49:20 is the latency really that bad ? Jul 17 03:49:24 was gonna ask what you were on, decided to go the nicer route thou Jul 17 03:49:25 30kbps Jul 17 03:49:28 pretty sure that's half duplex Jul 17 03:49:42 bah... Jul 17 03:49:50 * rockstar sees SHR doesn't exist Jul 17 03:50:12 http://www.gsmworld.com/technology/gprs/class.shtml Jul 17 03:50:19 the FR is class 12 Jul 17 03:50:35 (as was the neo1973) Jul 17 03:51:22 there's a new openmoko in development isn't there ? Jul 17 03:51:33 I thought I read that the next one will feature a camera, and such Jul 17 03:52:03 It's POSSIBLE Jul 17 03:52:06 but unknown Jul 17 03:52:07 i don't think much of anything is confirmed Jul 17 03:52:09 so after 5 hours of trying to compile FSO, it died with an error. if anyone out there has sucessfully compiled the FSO, i'd appreciate the help Jul 17 03:52:18 kdub :( Jul 17 03:52:18 all i've heard is that edge is "very likely" Jul 17 03:52:24 I think a camera is planned for the next one Jul 17 03:52:25 goodwill has Jul 17 03:52:36 * Stroller bets it'll take 9 months, tho' Jul 17 03:52:42 Ooopos Jul 17 03:52:51 bah, iphone 3g comercial Jul 17 03:52:53 I mean, what country are you in, Hydrant ? Jul 17 03:53:19 * chillywilly flashes qtopia.net for the fun of it Jul 17 03:53:38 Stroller: canada Jul 17 03:53:43 anyone know if you can ssh into a FR running qtopia? Jul 17 03:53:52 I was talking with an electrical / computer engineer who wants to help with hardware design Jul 17 03:53:55 where do I point him to ? Jul 17 03:54:30 Hydrant: the hardware design is commercial, it's not a community effort Jul 17 03:54:40 Stroller: hrrm, I thought it was Jul 17 03:54:46 that's too bad in a way Jul 17 03:55:07 there are too many components under NDA and the like Jul 17 03:55:07 The design is open in that you may see how it's built & suggest improvements Jul 17 03:55:10 the guy I know is a prof at U of T and wanted to get some of his students and himself to work on it Jul 17 03:55:25 Or "fork" and use the files to create a new hardware design Jul 17 03:55:25 hrrm Jul 17 03:55:32 (the files that are available) Jul 17 03:55:33 seems like wasted effort Jul 17 03:55:40 Hydrant: FIC might be interested in talking to him, I guess in that case Jul 17 03:55:44 I'm not an engineer, just know one that was interested Jul 17 03:55:45 yah Jul 17 03:55:55 he's very richard-stallman like... Steve Mann Jul 17 03:56:00 Get him to email steve@openmoko Jul 17 03:56:27 .org or .com ? Jul 17 03:56:31 com Jul 17 03:56:38 k... I'll forward that to him Jul 17 03:56:40 ant T-Mobile gprs users? Jul 17 03:56:45 any... Jul 17 03:56:57 anyone else in canada btw ? Jul 17 03:57:16 tmobile us here, benlake Jul 17 03:57:40 So ASU doesn't work with the SIM either. Jul 17 03:57:44 ieatlint: you manage to get gprs going? Jul 17 03:57:56 but after a lot of trying, i can't get gprs to work (and i'm using a pppd setup that i use on my laptop) Jul 17 03:57:58 rockstar :[ Jul 17 03:58:15 is ASU working? That's the default one that came with it ? Jul 17 03:58:22 poopsticks! Jul 17 03:58:30 gsmd owns the tty when running, and without it running, i can't do too much Jul 17 03:58:38 Yup. I'm gonna try Qtopia, and then I'm going to succeed with eBay. Jul 17 03:58:50 Hydrant, it came with a "stable" copy 2007.2 from april Jul 17 03:58:54 succeed with ebay? Jul 17 03:59:01 ieatlint: stable ASU you mean ? Jul 17 03:59:08 no Jul 17 03:59:12 okay :D Jul 17 03:59:13 2007.2 != ASU Jul 17 03:59:15 hahaha wow Jul 17 03:59:23 rockstar, I'm fairly certain it works. Jul 17 03:59:27 try it out :D Jul 17 03:59:29 if he can't get his SIM to work... Jul 17 03:59:40 you'll take his freerunner? :P Jul 17 03:59:50 ASU has a wifi UI? Jul 17 03:59:53 on the bright side he can still call 911... isn't that enough... Jul 17 03:59:55 sure ;P Jul 17 03:59:56 ok, so is the freerunner a class a, b, or c gsm device? Jul 17 03:59:57 sort of Jul 17 04:00:06 AntonTakk, B Jul 17 04:00:19 we all wish A ;) Jul 17 04:00:44 rockstar: what's with your sim card now ? Jul 17 04:01:05 ieatlint: yeah, A would be nice, but imho, B is good enough Jul 17 04:01:10 at least it's not C Jul 17 04:01:14 Hydrant, it doesn't work. Continuous "Registering..." at the top Jul 17 04:01:38 rockstar: has it worked before? Jul 17 04:01:53 In another phone, yes. Jul 17 04:02:00 ah, but never in fr? Jul 17 04:02:01 Never in the FR Jul 17 04:02:57 i had that problem till i slif the sim as far to the outside of the case as possible Jul 17 04:03:06 slid* Jul 17 04:03:34 Ah wait, the Qtopia image doesn't have Qtopia on it. Jul 17 04:03:43 What? o_O Jul 17 04:03:59 I'm not setting up a toolchain for something I'm not sure I'll still own in a week. Jul 17 04:04:13 "Qtopia is not on this rootfs. This rootfs is for developers wanting to compile Qtopia, create the jffs2 image and flash. " Jul 17 04:04:23 no no Jul 17 04:04:25 not that one Jul 17 04:04:43 qtopia is taking forever to boot... Jul 17 04:04:44 get the qtopia-4.3.2-gta02-flash.tgz or something Jul 17 04:04:47 there it goes Jul 17 04:04:53 chillywilly, always the complainer :p Jul 17 04:04:56 fun Jul 17 04:04:58 :P Jul 17 04:05:00 sorry Jul 17 04:05:03 impatient tonight Jul 17 04:05:04 so i've been running opkg update opkg upgrade for a while now is this usual? for a new phone? Jul 17 04:05:13 I was up too late last night screwing around with my phone ;) Jul 17 04:05:17 sirbob, what's it doing? Jul 17 04:05:24 I am kind of cranky Jul 17 04:05:25 this contacts stuff is locking up a lot... Jul 17 04:05:35 like i kept rerunin it for the last 4 hours cause shit keeps downloading Jul 17 04:05:47 looks liek its updateing everything Jul 17 04:05:58 o_O Jul 17 04:05:59 yeah Jul 17 04:06:01 that's good Jul 17 04:06:08 it can take a while, though that seems excessive Jul 17 04:06:11 perhaps if you're on dialup... Jul 17 04:06:12 ok lol Jul 17 04:06:16 ;p Jul 17 04:06:17 nope dsl Jul 17 04:06:20 i mean Jul 17 04:06:23 it finishes fast Jul 17 04:06:31 is there a development channel? Jul 17 04:06:33 gotta leave diversity running tonight to see if it can track me decently on my way to work in the morning :) Jul 17 04:06:33 then i opkg update opkg upgrade again Jul 17 04:06:35 yes Jul 17 04:06:37 and it dls more crap Jul 17 04:06:44 AntonTakk, I'm trying your solution, slid the SIM out. Jul 17 04:06:47 :D Jul 17 04:06:56 * Dave shrugs Jul 17 04:07:18 was starting to wonder if the poc was just dling the same crap over and over lol Jul 17 04:07:23 rockstar: i had some issues with qtopia, works now with my sim card Jul 17 04:07:50 rockstar: yeah, insert it, then use a small screw driver or w/e to mive it to one side or the other (look at how toh connectors line up with the sim/phone to decide which way to slide it Jul 17 04:07:51 Hydrant, did you have trouble with your sim in other firmwares? Jul 17 04:08:30 rockstar: I had sim/call/sms problems in all except asu Jul 17 04:08:32 AntonTakk, yea, I wondered if there was a tool to see if it could read off the SIM Jul 17 04:08:35 rockstar: hrrm... don't remember Jul 17 04:08:57 rockstar: I used a qtopia one from the 15th I think Jul 17 04:09:04 rockstar: iirc, libgsmd-tool -m atcmd \n AT+CIMI Jul 17 04:09:25 I didn't seem to have libgsm-tool installed Jul 17 04:09:46 o_O Jul 17 04:10:05 O_o Jul 17 04:10:07 well the qtopia apps seem a bit more polished and usable Jul 17 04:10:12 the keyboard is nice too Jul 17 04:11:27 does anyone know is gsmd on the latesy asu snapshots can maintain both gsm and gprs at the same time yet? Jul 17 04:11:35 Yes, but Qt development means I have to get all icky in C++ again. Jul 17 04:11:35 if* Jul 17 04:11:47 when you change orientation, does anyone else notice the touch coords are shifted to the left considerably? Jul 17 04:11:55 rockstar: C++ isn't icky Jul 17 04:11:56 :-) Jul 17 04:11:56 chillywilly: it is :D Jul 17 04:12:05 rockstar :p Jul 17 04:12:59 c++ is the first language I learned Jul 17 04:13:16 Well, if I could make calls with this, it would be worth it. I'd make the other tools I needed. Jul 17 04:13:25 was he default for our CE program...now I think they are pushing java (bleh) Jul 17 04:13:39 the* Jul 17 04:14:23 you learnt c++ first? Jul 17 04:14:26 I'll take Java over C++ Jul 17 04:14:36 oh, another java guy.. Jul 17 04:15:00 :) Jul 17 04:15:08 now now, be nice to the java persons Jul 17 04:15:09 * Dave high-fives chillywilly Jul 17 04:15:14 mwester, Never! Jul 17 04:15:15 Oh no, I dan't like Java at all. Just dislike C++ more. Jul 17 04:15:33 i am, until they baselessly insult c++ Jul 17 04:15:55 * Hydrant feels a language debate coming on Jul 17 04:16:04 Well, I once believed that the two worst languages in the world were java and C++. Jul 17 04:16:09 * rockstar ignores a language debate Jul 17 04:16:10 And then I encountered Python. Jul 17 04:16:11 platform agnostic assembly! Jul 17 04:16:25 haha Jul 17 04:16:25 mwester, you hate python? Jul 17 04:16:26 are there suppose to be LED's behind the power and aux buttons? Jul 17 04:16:29 python is ... easy Jul 17 04:16:36 That's rare. Are you a Ruby guy? Jul 17 04:16:41 * jeffszusz loves Python Jul 17 04:16:44 python is ... FORTRAN for the 21st century! Jul 17 04:16:44 Mokon00b: not implimented in software yet :) Jul 17 04:16:46 * jeffszusz loves Ruby Jul 17 04:16:56 ;) Jul 17 04:17:11 Perl Jul 17 04:17:16 * jeffszusz thinks Python and Ruby should just get along, because they both kick @5$ Jul 17 04:17:27 Can the acclerometers be read through dev? Jul 17 04:17:41 any developers here? Jul 17 04:17:45 echo 1 > /sys/devices/platform/gta02-led.0/leds/gta02-aux\:red/brightness Jul 17 04:17:49 Mokon00b: interesting to note that the pre-alpha daily asu buld I am running has already surpassed my old wm6pro phone in stability :) Jul 17 04:17:52 and the aux light turns on Jul 17 04:18:15 AntonTakk, my WM phone will use my SIM. :) Jul 17 04:18:25 /sys/devices/platform/gta02-led.0/leds/gta02-power:blue/brightness Jul 17 04:18:32 /sys/devices/platform/gta02-led.0/leds/gta02-power:orange/brightness Jul 17 04:18:37 echo 1 to turn on, 0 to turn off Jul 17 04:19:10 :D Jul 17 04:19:12 yay Jul 17 04:19:27 yep, with orange and blue on, it's kinda purple Jul 17 04:19:50 WM ? Jul 17 04:20:01 that's the same color as the T logo on my tmobile car charger :) Jul 17 04:20:02 windows mobile Jul 17 04:20:02 window manager? Jul 17 04:20:07 oh, pfft Jul 17 04:21:05 why would you carry a window with you ? Jul 17 04:21:10 sounds like a bad joke Jul 17 04:21:17 hrm Jul 17 04:21:28 i love the flippin qtopia keyboard Jul 17 04:21:30 does the fr have cron on it? Jul 17 04:21:30 ;P Jul 17 04:21:32 * AntonTakk checks Jul 17 04:21:51 what programmikng language are apps being developed in ? Jul 17 04:21:58 chillywilly: are you using a stylus ? Jul 17 04:22:07 AntonTakk, 2007.2 doesn't ... :( Jul 17 04:22:09 hrm, it does, but i see no plain crontab Jul 17 04:22:10 not even a package for it Jul 17 04:22:20 Hydrant: don't need to Jul 17 04:22:28 Hydrant: the keyboard is finger friendly Jul 17 04:22:30 hrm Jul 17 04:22:33 dang Jul 17 04:22:35 chillywilly: not for me Jul 17 04:22:36 rockstar, let me know how it turns out :) Jul 17 04:22:58 was gonna hack up a script to random-ishly flash the LEDs :) Jul 17 04:23:12 Hydrant: but it'll give you several guesses so you do not have to be exact Jul 17 04:23:19 someone on the mailing list posted an led status program Jul 17 04:23:21 Dave, flashing Qtopia currently Jul 17 04:23:39 it flashes the leds based on battery level, and if things like bluetooth and wifi are on Jul 17 04:23:46 chillywilly: I find the keys way too small Jul 17 04:23:47 nice Jul 17 04:23:55 I prefer the keyboard on the iphone Jul 17 04:24:06 Hydrant: stylus :) Jul 17 04:24:28 or modify the phone to be how I want Jul 17 04:24:33 the openmoko has a smaller screen tho Jul 17 04:24:58 Hydrant: try pressing down on a key and draggin...that is flippin awesome Jul 17 04:25:00 but higher resolution - so just bodymod your fingers to be tiny at the tips ;) Jul 17 04:25:12 does like a magnifying glass thing on the keys Jul 17 04:25:13 so maybe something nicer can be done... a sliding keyboard would be annoying... maybe depending upon what information you can get from the screen something more precise can be done Jul 17 04:25:29 same on the iphone Jul 17 04:25:38 Hydrant: I don't know what the keyboard on the iphone does...but this is pretty nice Jul 17 04:25:44 Hydrant: flip on it's side and do a bigger on screen kb :) Jul 17 04:25:53 qtopia doesn't do that :-( Jul 17 04:25:56 I might use this for a while just to have a decent usable phone for a while Jul 17 04:25:58 eh? Jul 17 04:26:05 Yeah you will! Jul 17 04:26:27 wonder if I can still ssh in Jul 17 04:26:33 yep :D Jul 17 04:27:07 So all I can find is the bin file for Qtopia. It was in the tarball Jul 17 04:27:13 No rootfs Jul 17 04:27:15 yeah, used qtopia today with suspend. working fairly well so far Jul 17 04:27:39 12+hrs and still lots of battery Jul 17 04:27:50 So Qtopia is just a kernel, and I add the ASU rootfs? Jul 17 04:27:52 rockstar, it's in there too :p Jul 17 04:27:53 yep, ssh still works the same Jul 17 04:28:11 http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=6 Jul 17 04:28:20 it's a rootfs Jul 17 04:28:23 qtopia has kernel and rootfs Jul 17 04:28:34 Found it Jul 17 04:28:35 I am using the daily builf kernel from yesterday (7/15) Jul 17 04:28:38 build* Jul 17 04:28:40 ASU isn't the same, but does use qtopia as the gui toolkit Jul 17 04:28:50 nullpuppy: I didn't see a kernel Jul 17 04:28:58 really? huh Jul 17 04:29:25 rockstar, hooray :D Jul 17 04:29:28 well if you go to www.qtopia.net and search for gta02 you'll also find the image Jul 17 04:29:41 yeah Jul 17 04:29:44 I hopy chillywilly didn't mislead you :D Jul 17 04:29:54 hmmm? Jul 17 04:30:09 this is pretty nice now...just have to figure everything out but I like the keyboard a lot Jul 17 04:30:25 I made a phone call also Jul 17 04:30:28 but did not answer it Jul 17 04:30:49 my wife's phone is charging and I was too lazy to walk over and answer it Jul 17 04:30:54 chillywilly, the tarball is linked from the openmoko wiki Jul 17 04:31:44 rockstar: ok, well I also saw them throwing back errors saying "you can't like to this file from an external source" when I tried some wiki links Jul 17 04:32:04 Yea, it eventually forwards you to where you need to be Jul 17 04:32:10 oh, qtopia also has help files :) Jul 17 04:32:22 that explain how to use some things Jul 17 04:32:43 pardon my ignorance.. what is this qtopia? and should I be using it? Jul 17 04:32:46 Well, if it makes calls, I'll figure everything else out. Jul 17 04:32:47 :) Jul 17 04:32:56 yay! Jul 17 04:33:13 http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions Jul 17 04:33:21 Mokon00b: look there ^ Jul 17 04:33:32 different software stacks Jul 17 04:34:06 H KOL Jul 17 04:34:11 kool Jul 17 04:34:26 qtopia does seem pretty nice and usable if you actually want to use your phone Jul 17 04:34:30 yah Jul 17 04:34:32 I'm using it Jul 17 04:34:34 I may install it on the microSD card though Jul 17 04:34:44 so I can still play with bleedin edge openmoko things Jul 17 04:34:57 and then boot off microSD card when I actually want to use the phone ;P Jul 17 04:35:27 dual boot phone Jul 17 04:35:29 yay... got USB networking to work Jul 17 04:35:33 that rocks Jul 17 04:35:35 trying to update my phone, really want to try the GPS Jul 17 04:35:36 is fairly easy to get openmoko back to factory defualt no/ Jul 17 04:35:47 yep Jul 17 04:35:56 wow Jul 17 04:35:58 k Jul 17 04:36:01 boot into NOR flash and then run dfu-util Jul 17 04:36:02 now I have more fun Jul 17 04:36:05 bam Jul 17 04:36:11 back to whatever image you want Jul 17 04:36:11 looks like i am not sleeping again tonight Jul 17 04:36:20 :P Jul 17 04:36:57 * chillywilly stills wants to test various things...but is very tired from staying up late last night screwing around with his phone Jul 17 04:37:07 * Failed to download http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/all/Packages.sig, error 404 Jul 17 04:37:09 hrrm Jul 17 04:37:16 I always get those Jul 17 04:37:49 :D Jul 17 04:37:56 Hydrant, yep, ignore it. Jul 17 04:38:12 k, so it worked ? Jul 17 04:38:48 sure Jul 17 04:41:22 anyone heard of qlandkarte ? Jul 17 04:41:27 Sad panda. Qtopia says "No network" Jul 17 04:42:10 doh, I think I crashed it Jul 17 04:42:16 the UI that is Jul 17 04:42:28 X died I think Jul 17 04:42:42 and it restarted Jul 17 04:42:45 :D Jul 17 04:42:56 Sad panda? Jul 17 04:43:08 Sad panda. Jul 17 04:43:20 :[ Jul 17 04:43:26 Yea, I'm a sad panda now... Looks like this phone isn't going to work. Jul 17 04:44:11 rockstar: tried qtopia? what file was it you downloaded ? Jul 17 04:44:14 Just out of curiosity - why don't you get a different sim card? Jul 17 04:44:49 :P Jul 17 04:44:57 rivalarrival, because I'm sure they'll only be even newer and more unsupported Jul 17 04:45:12 rockstar: And you base that on what evidence? Jul 17 04:45:18 :( Jul 17 04:45:22 Hydrant, qtopia-4.3.2-gta02-flash-07150527.tgz Jul 17 04:45:29 I've used mine with both T-Mobile and AT&T Jul 17 04:45:34 and they've worked fine :| Jul 17 04:45:51 I think that's the one I tried Jul 17 04:45:54 it fixed my problem Jul 17 04:46:00 talk to the people on #qtopia ? Jul 17 04:46:07 file a bug report ? Jul 17 04:46:09 Well, my buddy's works with T-mobile Jul 17 04:46:38 Hydrant, won't make sense to file a bug. I'm just not going to keep the phone. Jul 17 04:46:41 I'm just thinking that if it was a problem with all of the newer sim cards, there would be a LOT more people complaining that it wasn't working... I could be wrong, of course, but... Jul 17 04:47:05 s/phone/device Jul 17 04:47:06 But hey, if you don't want the phone, I'm sure you can find a buyer. Jul 17 04:47:08 rockstar: why don't you want the phone? Jul 17 04:47:27 Hydrant, because as far as I'm concerned, it's not a phone. Jul 17 04:47:40 rockstar: are you a programmer ? Jul 17 04:47:54 Yup, but I don't need another project. Jul 17 04:48:30 :p Jul 17 04:48:36 It's a neat new device. Jul 17 04:48:37 any of you know if the pen part of the led/laser/stylus/pen is refillable? Jul 17 04:48:41 Though yeah, not a phone :P Jul 17 04:48:49 working one yet, anyway. Jul 17 04:48:52 It is. I was looking forward to it. Jul 17 04:49:11 Dave: it's a fine phone here, has replaced my tmobile wing Jul 17 04:49:44 I imagine e-bay is going to be filled with higher-end ATT and T-mobile phones in the coming weeks. Jul 17 04:49:47 rockstar: I'd try to get an older sim card, or at least file a bug report on the mailing list and try to get something done Jul 17 04:50:16 :D Jul 17 04:50:25 Anton, and what image do you currently run? Jul 17 04:50:31 rivalarrival: oh, not going to sell my wing, hoping to one day run openmoko on it :), or even something like framiliar Jul 17 04:50:32 Looks like I can go play dumb and the AT&T guys might just cycle through SIMs for me. Jul 17 04:50:34 does the qtopia.net image have gps support? Jul 17 04:50:42 Dave: asu from 7/15 Jul 17 04:50:45 or just tell them you have an openmoko Jul 17 04:50:58 alright Jul 17 04:51:02 I went to rogers today, as evil a cell company as can be, and they had heard of an openmoko and were somewhat helpful Jul 17 04:51:10 I doubt anyone around here will know what OpenMoko is Jul 17 04:51:15 never know Jul 17 04:51:15 :| Jul 17 04:51:19 yeehaw? Jul 17 04:51:31 rockstar: If you're selling it, it would probably be worth more if people knew it was your sim card, and not a problem with that particular device. Jul 17 04:51:34 * Hydrant excited to get tangogps on so he can try it Jul 17 04:51:44 :D Jul 17 04:51:48 Yeah it's pretty sweet. Jul 17 04:52:00 rockstar: then tell them you need a slightly older 2g sim like might be used in a pay as you go/prepaid phone Jul 17 04:52:22 if there was a faster cellular I'd be set Jul 17 04:52:35 I wanted to do push voip on it Jul 17 04:53:28 support for ms active sync with exchange might be nice, as long as you could choose to ignore the policies/remote wipe/etc junk :) Jul 17 04:54:03 can't find tangogps on qtopia now that it's installed :-( Jul 17 04:54:17 Hydrant: yeah, no idea why Jul 17 04:54:30 and it can be run, but displays horibly Jul 17 04:54:42 and gripes constantly about dbus/etc Jul 17 04:54:45 hrrm Jul 17 04:55:17 basically it wants a bunch of the packages/libs from 2007.2 Jul 17 04:55:33 :| Jul 17 04:55:35 crap Jul 17 04:55:40 I wanted to try my GPS Jul 17 04:55:49 I would really like to have something like google maps on it Jul 17 04:55:55 diversity isn't bad as far as fairly baisc gps with openstreetmap tiles Jul 17 04:56:05 My pay as you go SIM is 3G... :| Jul 17 04:56:12 so is mine Jul 17 04:56:33 I don't think they make non-3g anymore... Jul 17 04:56:42 "they" ? Jul 17 04:56:52 tmobile doesn't even have a 3g network Jul 17 04:59:09 are the wiki instructions for the toolchain up to date? Jul 17 04:59:43 I can't seem to build the sample app.. on my ubuntu chroot or my gentoo machine Jul 17 05:00:58 kelvie :D Jul 17 05:01:21 ? Jul 17 05:01:28 is there a graphical installer for this thing yet? Jul 17 05:01:38 Hydrant: I asked a bit earlier and was told no Jul 17 05:01:39 eh? Jul 17 05:01:50 Oh, for the toolchain? Jul 17 05:01:54 too bad Jul 17 05:02:01 yeah.. it shouldn't be terribly hard to write Jul 17 05:02:09 Anyone else here have AT&T? Jul 17 05:02:17 hrrm... Jul 17 05:02:26 same with a volume controller Jul 17 05:02:32 it's just.. people haven't been writing them :P Jul 17 05:02:32 how are apps going to have a uniform look / feel? Just by using the Qt widgets in the qtopia case? Jul 17 05:02:49 it would be quick to throw things together with pyqt Jul 17 05:02:51 and I can't even get the toolchain working so I can't help :O Jul 17 05:02:58 yeah I saw a python-pyqt package Jul 17 05:03:01 My phone should be in Cleveland or Akron in the next hour or so, and in my hands by tomorrow afternoon! Yay! Jul 17 05:03:05 it is _really_ quick to throw things together in pyqt Jul 17 05:03:15 sure is Jul 17 05:03:25 :P Jul 17 05:03:29 which is why I want to get this damn toolchain working :P Jul 17 05:03:30 pypoo Jul 17 05:03:34 haha Jul 17 05:03:40 funny Jul 17 05:03:41 I am not sure I actually have audio that works yet ;P Jul 17 05:03:54 wasn't there some trick to getting audio to work with qtopia? Jul 17 05:03:57 I don't want to spend too much time on this phone... I have my own FOSS project to worry about and have already spent much too much time on it ;-) Jul 17 05:04:04 Hydrant: same :/ Jul 17 05:04:08 heh Jul 17 05:04:22 but I Jul 17 05:04:42 I'm tempted to contribute something here and there as I need Jul 17 05:05:31 haha.. I just want to see emacs compiled and running on it :P Jul 17 05:05:37 I've heard various reports that it does and works fine Jul 17 05:05:44 dang it Jul 17 05:05:50 I installed assassin and can't find it Jul 17 05:05:51 ah well Jul 17 05:06:05 I have to wait for qtopia to get more stable I think and just leech the features off others Jul 17 05:06:19 I've had like 4 people come up to me so far and say "WOW... is than an openmoko!" Jul 17 05:07:06 Hydrant: nice Jul 17 05:07:46 Hydrant: just think when it has software than can take full advantage of it's hardware Jul 17 05:07:57 I agree Jul 17 05:08:02 my biggest gripe is the keyboard Jul 17 05:08:15 I got it now to help with the testing and to support the idea with cash Jul 17 05:08:31 * AntonTakk imagines weeling the fr's vibrator pulse to let him know it has switched to silent mode as he approaches the movie theater :) Jul 17 05:08:46 feeling* Jul 17 05:09:44 well, I gotta get to sleep... and get back to real work instead of playing with openmoko all day Jul 17 05:09:51 heh Jul 17 05:09:55 2 days (maybe 3) straight is good for now :-) Jul 17 05:10:07 same, can't by om hardware w/o keeping my job :) Jul 17 05:10:09 can you use dfu-util to create a backup of a current flash? Jul 17 05:10:21 night Jul 17 05:10:28 you too Jul 17 05:15:10 woot, there is Jul 17 05:15:12 -U Jul 17 05:29:34 openmoko: 03zecke * r48cabebcf56a 10/src/server/phone/callscreen/semithemed/callscreen.cpp: [callscreen] Iconify the callscreen when someone clicks back and we have active calls Jul 17 05:32:22 so how do I put ptopia on my freerunner Jul 17 05:32:29 err qtopia Jul 17 05:40:18 grab the image from qtopia.net and flash it Jul 17 05:49:10 looks like I'm not the only one whose opkg is unhappy because it can't find Packages.sig Jul 17 05:52:22 anyone know what the deal is with that? is there supposed to be a Packages.sig? Jul 17 05:53:22 do anyone know abaut espeak 1.37 armvt4 ? Jul 17 05:53:33 wiml: You shouldn't need the .sigs Jul 17 05:53:43 well Jul 17 05:53:52 wiml: Just do an opkg install and it should work. Jul 17 05:53:54 opkg will go ahead and download without them Jul 17 05:54:17 but it seems like the .sigs OUGHT to be there Jul 17 05:54:31 wiml: You'd think that. Jul 17 05:54:34 blah blah security blah blah dns spoofing blah blah Jul 17 05:55:28 navit on freerunner ? does it run ? Jul 17 05:56:59 help Jul 17 05:58:01 it does Jul 17 05:59:15 :mjr ? 0.4 ? Jul 17 06:02:10 what? probably any version you compile Jul 17 06:03:10 yes compile is my problem i mean ipk packages Jul 17 06:08:43 cross compiling is one of those things that makes you want to break something Jul 17 06:10:56 any fix for failed sig check w/ opkg update? Jul 17 06:11:36 undrwater: just ignore it, from what I've heard Jul 17 06:11:55 mmontour: the update is happening? Jul 17 06:12:13 apparantly Jul 17 06:12:13 ...despite the errors? Jul 17 06:12:43 heh, I just came here to ask the same question :) Jul 17 06:12:58 ok, i'm updating the wiki :P Jul 17 06:13:17 * undrwater thanks ieatlint Jul 17 06:13:47 I'd be happier if the .sigs actually existed on the openmoko site Jul 17 06:13:51 "At the moment, some signature files are missing, which opkg complains about, but this is cosmetic." ... already there Jul 17 06:13:58 maybe i should make it more obvious Jul 17 06:14:10 yes please Jul 17 06:14:38 anyone else getting some kind of strange graphical element on the bottom of the screen? Jul 17 06:16:41 ok, if you miss it now, we get to mock you Jul 17 06:19:03 * wiml looks forward to being mocked for something Jul 17 06:19:12 ieatlint: much clearer...thanks!! :D Jul 17 06:21:23 argh Jul 17 06:21:26 you know what sucks? Jul 17 06:21:34 yes Jul 17 06:21:35 vacuum? Jul 17 06:21:38 UPS? Jul 17 06:21:41 when the document you used to track which person in your group paid you how much goes missing Jul 17 06:21:49 * doc|home stabs n800 Jul 17 06:21:54 lol Jul 17 06:22:00 yeah, that's a problem Jul 17 06:22:07 :( Jul 17 06:22:34 doc|home: oops. Jul 17 06:22:34 just send them all an email "Yeah, i lost the document i was using to track how much each of you paid, so i'm going to have to ask that you all pay again" Jul 17 06:22:46 doc|home: no papertrail? Jul 17 06:22:53 ieatlint: hahaha Jul 17 06:23:28 SpeedEvil: some, I have records for 5 of them, working on the rest. I had cash in an envelope, no bank deposits for some :/ Jul 17 06:24:28 doc|home, here's the way to do it... just send the 5 you don't know a request to pay soon... if they paid, they'll reply and go "wtf?" Jul 17 06:24:58 ieatlint: hehe, everyone paid something, I'm just not sure whether it was 400 or 450 :) Jul 17 06:25:16 ok, I can not get GPS to lock no matter what Jul 17 06:25:32 do you have the sd card in it, goodwill? Jul 17 06:25:49 and perhaps a local drop off place where i can leave my old junk and soiled clothing Jul 17 06:26:16 goodwill: removed sd card? Jul 17 06:27:57 no sd card Jul 17 06:27:58 anyone tried the other images Jul 17 06:28:11 and still no fix Jul 17 06:28:52 what gps app are you using? Jul 17 06:29:17 later folks... Jul 17 06:29:48 i tried without sd, fix in a minute or two. with sd, no fix, even after 30 minutes Jul 17 06:29:50 could someone clarify that: does the gps hw or software suck? ;) Jul 17 06:30:04 GPS is currently affected by a problem when the SD is accessed - it seems to lose or find it very hard to obtain - lock on satellites. There is a patch to turn off the clock to SD when not using it, but accessing SD will still disturb GPS. There is a hardware fix, but how this can be applied to units in the field is unclear at the moment. Jul 17 06:30:10 the hw is pretty decent Jul 17 06:30:38 hw is broken and unfixable if you want to use SD and GPS together. Jul 17 06:31:01 how come this wasn't found in testing? Jul 17 06:31:09 SpeedEvil: oh great :( Jul 17 06:31:13 It may in some circumstances work, but at best it will lose lock, or not get it, or bounce around a lot in positions. Jul 17 06:31:28 ajbrun: because nobody thought to test it I guess. Jul 17 06:31:59 isn't using gps and sd card at the same time quite a major function though? Jul 17 06:32:00 I do not have an SD card in and still can not get a lock Jul 17 06:32:05 SpeedEvil: and this problem was not known when going into mass production? Jul 17 06:32:15 However, it may be possible for people in assorted countries to setup for repairs, once they've checked out the fix. Jul 17 06:32:20 ajbrun: yes, if you have maps for a navigation program Jul 17 06:32:20 SpeedEvil: according to the mailing list there were GPS+SD tests Jul 17 06:32:21 fish_: not known Jul 17 06:32:41 there were tests - but the test fixture may have been applying a very strong signal. Jul 17 06:32:41 but they used, to speed up tests, no real GPS signal but a stronger faked one Jul 17 06:32:46 Which will have masked this Jul 17 06:33:13 Perhaps not even faked signal, maybe just amplified antenna. Jul 17 06:33:41 ok...no lock at all here Jul 17 06:33:44 and no SD card Jul 17 06:33:46 i have a freerunner on order now - should i cancel and wait for a fix, or is this kind of thing going to take a while? Jul 17 06:33:48 any hellp Jul 17 06:34:00 goodwill: you've taken it outside for seveal mins? Jul 17 06:34:00 goodwill: have you tried in a wide open space? Jul 17 06:34:06 yes Jul 17 06:34:11 does tangogps show any satellites? Jul 17 06:34:11 been walking around town Jul 17 06:34:14 nothing Jul 17 06:34:17 If I would to use dfu-util, which flash I need to into nand flash or nor flash Jul 17 06:34:19 see the antenna repair thingy in the topic Jul 17 06:34:29 ChandleWEi: you can't flash nor flash Jul 17 06:34:37 SpeedEvil: what do you mean with 'assorted countries'? Jul 17 06:34:38 ChandleWEi: at least - not without the debugboard Jul 17 06:34:41 stupid question, but did you turn the gps on? (hold the power button for the menu) Jul 17 06:34:46 ok, what's the best software right now :/ I know best is relative :/ Jul 17 06:34:59 fish_: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community/17970 Jul 17 06:35:00 SpeedEvil: /topic Jul 17 06:35:13 SpeedEvil: I just would to flash my uboot, Jul 17 06:35:31 SpeedEvil: how to do ? Jul 17 06:36:19 fish_: there have been comments from various OM personell that it might be possible for people to setup to do repairs to make the GPS work in various countries, rather than doing the shipping+customs thing again Jul 17 06:36:22 SpeedEvil: I can't log into U-Boot in the NOR FLASH,"Press and hold the AUX button, then press and hold the Power button. Then, release the AUX button." Jul 17 06:36:40 ChandleWEi: why do you want to mess with NOR flash? Jul 17 06:36:55 ChandleWEi: what i do is press the aux button first, then press the power button, then hold both until you get to the flash Jul 17 06:37:11 I even tried taking the cover off Jul 17 06:37:12 tenzind: thx Jul 17 06:37:15 no lock of any kind Jul 17 06:37:19 its always 99.9999 Jul 17 06:38:08 thanks for the link thewtex_ :) Jul 17 06:38:10 nn all Jul 17 06:38:11 SpeedEvil: Someone tell me flash uboot can fix my apm problem Jul 17 06:38:26 ajbrun: np, nn Jul 17 06:38:44 SpeedEvil: so fixing it might be possible without changing the whole freerunner board? Jul 17 06:38:50 ChandleWEi: I don't see how that can work. Jul 17 06:38:59 recommended image anyone? Jul 17 06:39:05 fish_: yes - it seems possible it's a 'simple' repair. Jul 17 06:39:06 fish: Jul 17 06:39:07 ChandleWEi: You said you can't log into the NOR u-boot. Can you access the NAND u-boot and boot into Linux? Jul 17 06:39:08 * goodwill sighs Jul 17 06:39:27 fish_: for someone skilled in the art of SMD repair. Jul 17 06:39:31 roh: do you will come to the icmp and fix my freerunner? =) Jul 17 06:39:54 SpeedEvil: ah okay, that sounds okay :) Jul 17 06:40:08 mmontour: maybe just method different , reference http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner Jul 17 06:40:32 finally a fix Jul 17 06:40:32 it say Press and hold the AUX button, then press and hold the Power button. Then, release the AUX button. ,and ecraven: ChandleWEi: what i do is press the aux button first, then press the power button, then hold both until you get to the flash Jul 17 06:40:33 !!! Jul 17 06:40:36 SpeedEvil, yes, let us all have a moment of silence for those brave few who died in the art of SMD repair Jul 17 06:40:40 oh dear god I have a fix Jul 17 06:41:18 congratulations ;) Jul 17 06:41:46 See bug #1568 - one person had a board where the NOR had not been programmed at the factory. Jul 17 06:42:37 ieatlint: I got a burn once. Jul 17 06:42:57 yeah, i've at least 3 burns from soldering Jul 17 06:42:59 scars, that is Jul 17 06:43:19 battlescar! Jul 17 06:43:26 my girlfriend says she got me a really nice soldering iron for my birthday.. it's so exciting Jul 17 06:43:39 how do you find out the partition name? Jul 17 06:44:04 tangoGPS shows my loc!!! Jul 17 06:44:06 nice!!! Jul 17 06:44:29 doc|home, the partition is called "root" methinks Jul 17 06:44:45 where'd you get that from? Jul 17 06:44:57 well, it's /dev/root for a reason Jul 17 06:45:04 The server hosting http://svn.projects.openmoko.org/svnroot/mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile seems to be down. Jul 17 06:45:10 the kernel will name devices like that based on the name of the partition Jul 17 06:45:15 I'm trying to flash the device for the first time using dfu-util Jul 17 06:45:36 oh Jul 17 06:45:41 rootfs for the root partition Jul 17 06:45:58 dfs-util -a rootfs -R -D blah.jffs2 Jul 17 06:46:14 .jffs2? not.bin like the wiki says? Jul 17 06:46:21 the kernel is bin Jul 17 06:46:27 ./dfu-util -a kernel -R -D uImage-2.6.24+git20080424-om-gta02.bin is the wiki example Jul 17 06:46:32 dfs-util -a kernel -R -D uImage...bin Jul 17 06:46:39 rootfs is jffs2 Jul 17 06:46:39 ah, I see Jul 17 06:46:47 will do kernel first Jul 17 06:47:24 congrats on getting your FR Jul 17 06:47:34 welcome to the insanity Jul 17 06:47:39 :( Jul 17 06:47:48 no, it's a fun insanity Jul 17 06:47:52 is it? :/ Jul 17 06:48:00 what's the battery life like on the official images now? Jul 17 06:49:00 SpeedEvil: so.. theres a hw bug for gps... is there a description of the reported fix anywhere? Jul 17 06:49:12 i charge it everywhere i go so it never gets low... my guess is 6-12 hours Jul 17 06:49:13 nullpuppy: mailing lists Jul 17 06:49:17 kk Jul 17 06:52:13 does listening to mp3s already work stable? Jul 17 06:53:02 man, flashing is slow Jul 17 06:54:06 good morning Jul 17 06:54:47 does anyone know how to turn off the clicky sound? Jul 17 06:55:41 no only stop pulseaudiod Jul 17 06:55:55 no, don't stop pulse Jul 17 06:56:01 /etc/pulse/session Jul 17 06:56:05 or delete the wav Jul 17 06:56:11 comment out the line that says load-sample touchscreen /usr/share/openmoko/sounds/touchscreen_click.wav Jul 17 06:56:14 reboot the phone Jul 17 06:58:05 you could also replace the wav with something far more annoying Jul 17 06:58:29 ieatlint: thank you Jul 17 06:58:36 ieatlint: I commented it out and restarted pulse Jul 17 06:59:17 hey! friday i get mine baby! Jul 17 07:00:11 hey I dont need the dboard to load up simple games like sokudu, or do I? Jul 17 07:00:15 Railer: me have FR!!! Jul 17 07:00:18 2 days now Jul 17 07:00:33 goodwill where you at? Jul 17 07:00:44 LA Jul 17 07:00:49 Cali Jul 17 07:00:59 im in canada, customs slowed me down :( Jul 17 07:01:05 sorry man!!! Jul 17 07:01:17 well a couple more days Jul 17 07:01:46 customs slow, eh? Jul 17 07:02:04 are you sorry that I don't have the phone or you sorry that I live in Canada? Jul 17 07:02:25 well and the shipping is longer Jul 17 07:02:30 neither, i just like to affectionately make fun of canada Jul 17 07:02:32 the phone bit Jul 17 07:02:36 canada is nice Jul 17 07:02:38 or canuckland, as it is better known Jul 17 07:03:07 when it's -40 here I wish I lived in LA Jul 17 07:03:15 ever been to la Jul 17 07:03:20 because, la sucks Jul 17 07:04:24 So whats the story on installing python games and apps? Do i need the dBoard? Jul 17 07:04:33 no Jul 17 07:04:41 opkg install python, if it doesn't already have it Jul 17 07:05:02 might require some tweaking and some additional libraries, all of which are likely in opkg's repositories Jul 17 07:05:22 sweet, have to learn pyton over holidays, look easy enough, make some retro games Jul 17 07:06:10 mmontour: I try again , but alos can't log into the NOR u-boot, but I can access NAND u-boot and boot into Linux Jul 17 07:07:33 I think http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner log into u-boot picture is reverse Jul 17 07:08:32 How to log into NOR flash whether is Press and hold the AUX button, then press and hold the Power button. Then, release the AUX button or not ? Jul 17 07:08:37 actually it's the titles methinks Jul 17 07:08:53 damnit, i always forget which is which Jul 17 07:08:58 aux then power is what you want Jul 17 07:09:03 power then aux is the backup Jul 17 07:10:47 Step 2. Flashing the Kernel Log into U-Boot in NOR Flash, connect your Neo with Linux Host via USB cable Before you execute the following command, please log into U-Boot in the NOR Flash. Jul 17 07:12:12 ieatlint:whether just Press and hold the AUX button, then press and hold the Power button.or then release the aux button. Jul 17 07:12:31 press and hold aux Jul 17 07:12:40 then press and hold power (with aux held down) Jul 17 07:12:50 2-3secs and you should get the uboot menu Jul 17 07:12:51 hold aux for a second, hold power and release aux Jul 17 07:13:16 hmmm, what am I missing to see usb0? Jul 17 07:13:36 you running on osx doc? Jul 17 07:13:40 usbview shows a RNDIS/Ethernet gadget Jul 17 07:13:44 ieatlint: ! Jul 17 07:13:47 ieatlint: linux Jul 17 07:13:55 gentoo? ;) Jul 17 07:14:10 yep :) Jul 17 07:14:15 the phone booted up? Jul 17 07:14:18 yup Jul 17 07:14:27 ifconfig usb0 says no such device? Jul 17 07:14:37 usb0: unknown interface: No such device Jul 17 07:14:49 i had it too... need to compile a couple modules in the kernel Jul 17 07:14:54 oh arse Jul 17 07:14:58 ok, something for tomorrow Jul 17 07:14:59 night Jul 17 07:15:04 ok, goodnight Jul 17 07:15:10 thanks Jul 17 07:17:10 I can't log into nor flash Jul 17 07:17:32 pressing and holding aux while pressing and holding power? Jul 17 07:17:39 * doc|home trying sim Jul 17 07:18:11 doc|home: yes Jul 17 07:18:19 what's happening instead? Jul 17 07:18:30 doc|home: then release aux Jul 17 07:18:39 hehe Jul 17 07:18:46 * doc|home received sms! Jul 17 07:19:19 doc|home: just get little 'po' voice Jul 17 07:19:40 doc|home, for tomorrow... menuconfig... "device drivers" .. "network device support" .. "usb network adapters Jul 17 07:21:06 cdc_ether is the module... no need to recompile the kernel Jul 17 07:23:30 i suppose i should add a reference to that in the wiki Jul 17 07:24:15 ieatlint: thanks Jul 17 07:24:29 ChandleWEi: no idea, sorry :/ might be an idea to mail one of the lists if you get nothing here Jul 17 07:25:32 why is it so difficult to get to messages? Jul 17 07:25:51 click "4 new messages" text, up pops create new message dialog, and no way to get to messages Jul 17 07:25:57 clicking on folder icon gives nothing Jul 17 07:26:44 every once in a while I'll get a glimpse of it, but then poof! it's gone Jul 17 07:27:50 anyone test that SD/GPS kernel patch? Jul 17 07:30:53 is that the patch that changes the GPS voltage from 3 to 3.2 V ? Jul 17 07:31:00 yeah Jul 17 07:31:16 aww Jul 17 07:31:17 does it fix the GPS's inablility to grab a fix Jul 17 07:31:26 I haven't tested it Jul 17 07:31:28 so, yeah, get GPS fix in 218s w/o SD card Jul 17 07:31:33 no fix with SD card Jul 17 07:31:46 using daily kernel and 2007.2 from today Jul 17 07:31:50 I got a fix with SD card in like 20 minutes Jul 17 07:32:08 at 14m with SD card right now Jul 17 07:32:22 i'll let it sit overnight and see what happens Jul 17 07:32:34 I'm confused how they let the phone out the door with such a serious flaw Jul 17 07:32:39 Hi. I’m running MokoMakefile right now, but it seems that rm_work does not kick in. Shouldn’t that run before any "NOTE: package install-native-0.1: completed" Jul 17 07:32:49 walrustown: dunno :/ it happens Jul 17 07:33:25 it sucks, doesn't bother me too much, really, though Jul 17 07:33:29 they tested with an artificial gps signal, which was apparently a bit too strong compared to everyday use Jul 17 07:33:50 how hard would it have been to have one guy go outside and test the gps? Jul 17 07:33:58 I understand the artificial signal for inside the factory Jul 17 07:34:42 But before they ramped up production -- they didn't even give the hardware a good run-through? Jul 17 07:35:49 walrustown: *shrugs* even then, they still may not have noticed the issue Jul 17 07:35:57 there have been people that haven't had a problem Jul 17 07:36:11 I guess Jul 17 07:36:30 but it seems like an *awful lot* of other phones get shipped without bad hardware flaws Jul 17 07:36:49 *shrugs* Jul 17 07:36:57 its still a new design in a lot of ways Jul 17 07:37:25 it takes time, they may offer factory servicing to fix the issue given the number of people bitching about it Jul 17 07:37:33 the Howto_Test_Your_GPS_with_agpsui page suggests someone might want to know how quickly my gta02 got a fix even if it seems to be working fine Jul 17 07:37:42 and if not, it'll likely be fixed for the next run *shrugs* Jul 17 07:38:04 but it doesn't say who :) Jul 17 07:38:18 I hope they offer something... I bought the FR thinking that they had worked this stuff out in the 1973 Jul 17 07:38:42 the way i look at it, the problem will be rectified one way or the other. complaining about it isn't gonna help much if I can't offer info for why it doesn't work Jul 17 07:39:03 walrustown: parts of it, sure, but shit still happens. Jul 17 07:39:16 its on the the 2nd major revision Jul 17 07:39:47 and with the amount of stuff being shoved in the enclosure, well.. unexpected bugs do happen Jul 17 07:40:05 have anyway to check why can't start nor flash? Jul 17 07:40:18 ChandleWEi: what happens when you try to start it? Jul 17 07:40:23 i've heard at least one person with a test unit that says the gps/sd issue isn't present Jul 17 07:40:39 i hope that happens to me Jul 17 07:40:49 ieatlint: *nods* Jul 17 07:40:54 heh Jul 17 07:41:02 like winning the lotto Jul 17 07:41:04 it very well could have been a problem that wasn't apparent until mass production too Jul 17 07:41:08 something got fucked up Jul 17 07:41:15 yeah that could be Jul 17 07:41:23 shit happens, and openmoko/fic is the LAST one to want to hear there's a bug, because it'll cost them the most Jul 17 07:41:25 maybe its still an antenna issue? Jul 17 07:41:40 nullpuppy: I would to flash my uboot Jul 17 07:41:41 compounded by the SD Jul 17 07:41:42 ieatlint: exactly, but if there is one, they want to know about it so they can fix it Jul 17 07:42:00 nullpuppy: but I can't start it Jul 17 07:42:01 ChandleWEi: ok... what happens when you try and boot into NOR uboot? Jul 17 07:42:17 lets face it, this is better response then what you'll get with other products Jul 17 07:42:17 ChandleWEi: you CANNOT flash NOR uboot without a debug board, you can flash NAND flash, however... Jul 17 07:42:23 my main concern is that if there is an actual hardware flaw that I can't fix, I don't want to swallow the $400 I paid for the hardware that I thought would be useable Jul 17 07:42:30 and we all knew this is still a dev edition Jul 17 07:42:49 OM gets egg on face...learns something Jul 17 07:42:59 walrustown: its one piece thats partially broken, i don't see that as being a waste Jul 17 07:43:08 you're supporting the development of the platform Jul 17 07:43:11 nullpuppy:I just would log into nor flash Jul 17 07:43:18 ChandleWEi: ok, can you? Jul 17 07:43:19 nullpuppy: yeah I guess Jul 17 07:43:30 pretty much everyone knows that OM is nto yet consumer ready Jul 17 07:43:52 nullpuppy: I try severals but I can't log into nor flash. Jul 17 07:43:57 right. the hardware is *almost* there Jul 17 07:44:02 ChandleWEi: ok, what happens when you try? Jul 17 07:44:03 nah one guy came in here the other day talking about "commercial" crap Jul 17 07:44:19 remember? Jul 17 07:44:39 nullpuppy :I Press and hold the AUX button, then press and hold the Power button. Then, release the AUX button.but nothing happen Jul 17 07:44:48 ggrep through the logs if you got em Jul 17 07:45:15 i've been having a whale of a time flipping through the mailing list mails Jul 17 07:45:23 ChandleWEi: hold both until it boots Jul 17 07:45:37 the aux button should blink red, then about 1sec later it should boot Jul 17 07:45:53 unless the battery is completely dead Jul 17 07:46:03 true Jul 17 07:46:20 and i ead something about it not charging when completely dead Jul 17 07:46:24 read* Jul 17 07:46:33 from usb at least Jul 17 07:46:38 wall charger should be fine Jul 17 07:46:40 oh Jul 17 07:46:42 nullpuppy:don't hold aux hold power release aux,just both hold aux and power? Jul 17 07:47:05 Has anyone else encountered a bug with FR where it feels like AltGr is on, ie. key 7 gives {, 8 gives [ and so on? Jul 17 07:47:07 ChandleWEi: correct, press and hold aux, then press and hold power and hold both until it boots Jul 17 07:47:15 Karrde: yup Jul 17 07:47:25 Karrde: yes, but no idea how to fix it Jul 17 07:47:26 hi... any news about the gps bug? Jul 17 07:47:27 Karrde: it magically fixed itself for me though Jul 17 07:47:30 no idea how to fix it Jul 17 07:47:44 ecraven: do you know where the source-code for the query-keyboard is located? Jul 17 07:47:53 mw|: no, sorry Jul 17 07:47:55 then jump down shake around pick a bail of cotton Jul 17 07:48:02 admiral0: sounds like probably hw bug with SD card interference Jul 17 07:48:19 some might just be software though Jul 17 07:48:19 personally I think the hardware needs a bit improvment. No loop, camera, and a removable stylus Jul 17 07:48:22 And it is not only in 2007.2 for I have also encountered in ASU Jul 17 07:48:24 ^^ solutions? Jul 17 07:48:39 also better buttons Jul 17 07:48:39 admiral0: apparently some info on the ml's Jul 17 07:48:42 ah, ok, make build-package- on an empty moko dir will build everything, but not rm_work it. This happens rather with commands like make openmoko-feed Jul 17 07:48:49 but all in all this release is pretty good Jul 17 07:48:49 ecraven: any idea who might know? I don't bother to install it unless I have the possibilty to look at the source-code and perhaps even fix it Jul 17 07:48:56 admiral0: if you don't need SD card.. you should be able to get a fix by simply removing the SD card Jul 17 07:49:18 if you still can't, then i'm not sure at the moment Jul 17 07:49:32 nullpuppy: i need the sd card for the maps Jul 17 07:49:42 * nullpuppy nods Jul 17 07:49:42 mw|: it's called multitap-pad, it should be in the source tree.. a minute Jul 17 07:50:48 nullpuppy: you surely know more than me... what's the http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FreeRunner_GPS_antenna_repair_SOP about? Jul 17 07:50:57 multitap-pad it openmoko thingy, but the querty keyboard thingy (but if it happens with multitap aswell, the problem isn't in that keyboard then) Jul 17 07:51:21 admiral0: some FR devices have a problem with the internal antenna connector Jul 17 07:51:26 but thats a different problem Jul 17 07:51:30 admiral0: i think someone had a loose antennae and reconnecting it fixed it Jul 17 07:51:32 mw|: oh, i had the problem with multitap-pad.. i don't know how to get a better keyboard ;( Jul 17 07:52:05 @$* i hope mine won't have this problem... Jul 17 07:52:22 w00t .. finally got icewm on debian sid for microsd boot Jul 17 07:52:31 i've got the SD card problem :/ get a fix pretty quickly without SD card in Jul 17 07:52:38 i'm flipping through the kernel source but i cant find jack thats moko specific Jul 17 07:53:27 thank you for the info... Jul 17 07:53:30 bye Jul 17 07:54:07 kd8ikt: kernel source.. with an editor or menuconfig ? Jul 17 07:54:19 file browsing Jul 17 07:54:32 nullpuppy: I hold one minute but nothing happen ,have other way to check it Jul 17 07:56:13 just grabbed the git like an hour ago Jul 17 07:56:58 ChandleWEi: does it power up at all if you just hold down power? Jul 17 07:57:36 kd8ikt: did you change the branche ? Jul 17 07:58:21 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rbcc114ead8c1 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [qtopia/srcrev] Increase the SRCREV, remove the "active call" desktop entry Jul 17 07:58:31 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r8a8b1ed2f7a7 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [qtopia/srcrev] Increase the SRCREV, remove the "active call" desktop entry Jul 17 07:58:58 i dunno i think i need sleep i have to drive from cinci to lexington KY today and its nearly 4AM Jul 17 07:59:07 pickin up my moko! Jul 17 07:59:19 nullpuppy: yes Jul 17 08:00:06 ChandleWEi: ok, then either you somehow got a phone without NOR properly flashed (in which case contact openmoko, or get a dboard) or you're doing something wrong Jul 17 08:00:27 yeah i've heard that some slip by without nor flashed Jul 17 08:01:02 or find a local moko user to help ya flash it with dboard Jul 17 08:02:09 nullpuppy: before it power up ok but now it can't power up ,if I just hold power button Jul 17 08:03:27 you probably need to charge it then Jul 17 08:03:31 battery is probably dead Jul 17 08:04:11 plug her into the wallwart Jul 17 08:05:43 ok, now i need to head to bed Jul 17 08:05:51 i'd stay and offer more help if i could Jul 17 08:05:57 nullpuppy: now I remove battery and then insert battery it power up when just press power Jul 17 08:06:09 ok... Jul 17 08:06:31 yay Jul 17 08:06:38 nullpuppy: I just apm error so need tu update uboot Jul 17 08:06:45 kd8ikt: did you get the PM ? Jul 17 08:07:04 oh i'm on irssi lemmie flip through winderz Jul 17 08:07:05 ChandleWEi: are you sure you need to update uboot? who told you that? Jul 17 08:10:31 nullpuppy: just in support@lists.openmoko.org,someone tell me to try new uboot Jul 17 08:10:43 ok Jul 17 08:10:46 nullpuppy:my apm always have showed me below messages Jul 17 08:10:47 > > > root@om-gta02:/etc/opkg# apm Jul 17 08:10:47 > > > Off-line, battery status critical Jul 17 08:10:47 > > > Jul 17 08:10:47 > > > and my apm --monitor always show Jul 17 08:10:47 > > > Line : off Jul 17 08:10:49 > > > Battery: -1% (?) Jul 17 08:11:05 if you can't get into NOR flash, then i think i'd recommend finding someone locally to help you Jul 17 08:11:37 are you pressing AUX then power? (holding both and not releasing either) from power off? Jul 17 08:12:21 nullpuppy: yes Jul 17 08:13:17 nullpuppy: first poweroff ,second press hold aux ,third press hold power, holding both and not relesing either Jul 17 08:13:33 then, as i said earlier, either you battery doesn't have a good enough charge, your NOR wasn't flashed properly at the factory, or your doing something wrong Jul 17 08:14:01 ChandleWEi: and when you do that NOTHING happens? Jul 17 08:14:12 no AUX LED flashing, nothing on the screen? Jul 17 08:14:30 nullpuppy: usb already have connected Jul 17 08:14:47 ChandleWEi: that doesn't answer my question Jul 17 08:14:58 mickey|zzZZzz: question again, for later work :-) Jul 17 08:15:15 mickey|zzZZzz: If I try to set the pin code, and I have a BLOCKED exception Jul 17 08:15:33 If I then try to unlock the phone, given its right code Jul 17 08:15:43 What will be the result of a wrong PUK/PUK2 ? Jul 17 08:15:47 Blocked ? Failed ? Jul 17 08:15:55 nullpuppy: nothing happen Jul 17 08:16:34 ChandleWEi: ok, then charge the battery for a bit and try again. if it still doesn't work, ask on support again or something Jul 17 08:16:34 i don't know :/ Jul 17 08:16:34 nullpuppy: nand flash ,I try again that is ok Jul 17 08:17:01 nullpuppy: thx your patient Jul 17 08:17:07 ChandleWEi: ok, it could be you'r NOR is blank then and you either need to send it back to be flashed or you need a debug board so you can do it yourself Jul 17 08:17:11 no prob Jul 17 08:18:12 ChandleWEi: good luck. i'm going to bed. Jul 17 08:18:14 night all Jul 17 08:18:27 nullpuppy: good night Jul 17 08:18:27 cya Jul 17 08:26:36 morning Jul 17 08:26:52 * SpeedEvil backs away from the light. Jul 17 08:30:05 natural light ... be afraid! Jul 17 08:30:06 it burns Jul 17 08:30:09 it causes cancer Jul 17 08:30:43 tru, tru Jul 17 08:30:46 morning methril Jul 17 08:30:52 and prevents rickets... Jul 17 08:31:04 but rickets only gets you on disability Jul 17 08:31:07 And causes crickets. Jul 17 08:31:39 oh, no one likes cricket... it's worse than baseball Jul 17 08:31:48 that's just not cricket Jul 17 08:33:38 i must say, if you want to get an american a present that will truly perplex them, get them a cricket set Jul 17 08:36:36 oh my god....on top of everything...a cricket set too? Jul 17 08:37:29 quiet, or i'll condemn you to a tdma cell network Jul 17 08:38:01 * goodwill mutters Jul 17 08:38:37 when i was 18, i worked in a small office building that had a cell tower on its roof... and we had root access Jul 17 08:38:48 i always wanted to buy some wire mesh and wrap the tower with it Jul 17 08:39:09 Did anyone ever figure out why opkg update gets 404 errors? Jul 17 08:39:11 so many missed opportunities.. Jul 17 08:39:11 ieatlint: what will that do? Jul 17 08:39:17 ieatlint: you had root access to the tower? Jul 17 08:39:20 why there aren't daily builds anymore? Jul 17 08:39:27 sudo roofaccess Jul 17 08:39:31 bleh, roof access _Ü Jul 17 08:39:32 :P Jul 17 08:39:33 ach Jul 17 08:39:35 tessier: its the sig file...not being updated Jul 17 08:39:38 sudo make me a sammich Jul 17 08:39:42 hi Jul 17 08:39:47 goodwill: oh, the sig file gets 404's but not the actual package lists...ok Jul 17 08:39:47 ieatlint: hahahaa Jul 17 08:39:51 anyswer my question! Jul 17 08:39:55 sudo answer my question! Jul 17 08:39:58 hi BlackFrog Jul 17 08:39:59 heh Jul 17 08:40:14 alphabeat, and wrapping an antenna with wire mesh will block RF Jul 17 08:40:22 ah right ;) Jul 17 08:40:25 I am going to to play the open moko games right in front of iphone friend tomorrow Jul 17 08:40:29 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080717/ <- thats the last daily builded snapshot.. Jul 17 08:40:32 just to bug him Jul 17 08:40:45 so basically i could take out the cell tower without causing any damage Jul 17 08:40:48 need to make some accellerometer apps Jul 17 08:40:53 like labrynth Jul 17 08:41:14 i keep meaning to make a test accelerometer app Jul 17 08:41:24 ieatlint: you should just hacked in and rerouted some calls Jul 17 08:41:29 ieatlint: mesh, shmesh Jul 17 08:41:43 even just a 3d cube with like beads inside that fall towards the dround Jul 17 08:41:49 goodwill, i lacked the technical expertise at the time... at the time i was a linux novice Jul 17 08:41:56 ieatlint: or some greek watergate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_telephone_tapping_case_2004-2005 Jul 17 08:42:01 i had finally learned out to exit vi only weeks before Jul 17 08:42:06 ieatlint: it does not run linux either I bet Jul 17 08:42:12 :q Jul 17 08:42:17 ieatlint: use emacs... Jul 17 08:42:20 * goodwill runs Jul 17 08:42:24 heh Jul 17 08:42:48 emacs .. is bulky Jul 17 08:43:03 it's like using a sledge hammer on a nail Jul 17 08:43:19 only you have to press 10 keys in order to swing the hammer Jul 17 08:43:25 15 if you want to get the correct amount of force Jul 17 08:43:31 ieatlint: not if you always keep it open and do your own shortcuts Jul 17 08:43:33 openmoko: 03zecke * r4533 10/trunk/src/target/audio/om-gta02/capturehandset.state: Jul 17 08:43:33 openmoko: Add capturehandset.state courtsey Christian Kuester Jul 17 08:43:33 openmoko: Add state files to capture audio from the internal mic. Jul 17 08:43:33 Mx Mhammer will solve that Jul 17 08:43:52 i'm a vi guy Jul 17 08:43:59 ieatlint: http://xkcd.com/378/ Jul 17 08:44:53 alas, the FR lacks ed Jul 17 08:45:26 but ed is the STANDARD! Jul 17 08:45:45 Mr Ed? Jul 17 08:45:57 the current keyboard has Escape too Jul 17 08:46:00 C-x M-c M-butterfly Jul 17 08:46:01 you could not use it Jul 17 08:46:06 http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed.msg.html Jul 17 08:46:49 gnu and fun? ... right.. Jul 17 08:46:57 meh... Jul 17 08:46:59 gnu is good Jul 17 08:47:07 bsd, shmiesd Jul 17 08:47:11 gnu is good, but not fun :P Jul 17 08:47:12 and look what apple did to it Jul 17 08:47:15 When I do an opkg upgrade now X dies and I have to power it off. Jul 17 08:47:16 it's an old usenet post. gnu just holds a copy. Jul 17 08:47:30 flipping stole freebsd, added their crap and locked it down Jul 17 08:47:42 flipping narcisists Jul 17 08:47:49 do not even contribute back Jul 17 08:48:02 you just watch, they will kill cups too Jul 17 08:48:16 "Note the consistent user interface and error reportage." <--- my favorite line Jul 17 08:54:58 hey, the new xkcd comic is a penis joke... yay! Jul 17 09:01:58 ack mokomake error make openmoko-devel-image make: *** [openmoko-devel-image] Error 137 Jul 17 09:11:09 about the roof access to the cell antenna: put a RF shield on it that rotates around the antenna: People would have conversations like this: "hey dave could you get me ..... . . for you wife's...... in the hole?" Jul 17 09:11:35 A total block is to obvious and detected to soon Jul 17 09:16:47 has anyone had any luck with GPRS on the freerunner? Jul 17 09:17:14 someone here said it worked Jul 17 09:19:16 hmm, all I ever get is errors saying the connect script failed (after following the manually using gprs wiki page) Jul 17 09:19:42 there were a couple of posts on the list with other people having the same issue, but no mention of what they were doing wrong Jul 17 09:19:45 i've gotten as far as the ppp session attempting to get an ip but failing Jul 17 09:20:09 damnit jim i'm a doctor not a software engineer Jul 17 09:20:19 basically, gsmd manages the gsm modem's tty for sms/telephony Jul 17 09:20:40 in order to use gprs, pppd need to use the tty... and such, gsmd must be stopped (thus, stopping all sms/telephony) Jul 17 09:20:53 but gsmd also registers you to the gsm network Jul 17 09:21:06 so you need a special chat script that registers your sim to the network Jul 17 09:21:13 (which is on the wiki) Jul 17 09:21:20 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GPRS <-- I've followed this, which switches off gsm Jul 17 09:21:28 yeah Jul 17 09:22:01 and I've tried using the chat script suggested there (with changed apn) and an old one I used to use with my phone over bluetooth Jul 17 09:22:03 GPRS is just ppp over gsm? Wow. Jul 17 09:22:10 yeah, gprs is ppp Jul 17 09:22:17 but without any luck Jul 17 09:22:21 you dial the number *99# even, nothing more Jul 17 09:22:38 (try dialing that number from the dialer, hehe) Jul 17 09:24:19 one sec, i'll post a log from pppd Jul 17 09:25:38 http://tehinterweb.com/freerunner/gprs.txt Jul 17 09:25:58 it would appear that i am trying to auth Jul 17 09:26:15 and failing ... even though "noauth" is specified in my options Jul 17 09:27:50 perhaps i should setup auth and feed it a bogus l/p... since my provider has no authentication, but almost seems to be challenging for one Jul 17 09:30:44 oooh, that did it Jul 17 09:31:01 yay... i am online via gprs Jul 17 09:31:32 any ideas on how i can get the kernel headers for the latest kernel? Jul 17 09:32:25 4-6KBps Jul 17 09:36:27 cool beans Jul 17 09:37:38 okay, i created a file on my server that is exactly 1MB... downloading it and timing the download to get an accurate speed gauge Jul 17 09:40:04 aha, got it working :) Jul 17 09:40:16 thanks Jul 17 09:40:16 hey Jul 17 09:40:20 just needed to fiddle with the chat script Jul 17 09:40:57 okay, 1MB downloaded in exactly 3 minutes, 14.52 seconds (no dns lookup) for an average speed of 5.26KBps Jul 17 09:43:49 i think the max is around 48kbit... i pulled 42kbit since i've only mediocre signal strength Jul 17 09:45:26 latency is around 600 with spikes to 800+ (round trip) ... which is standard for gprs/edge/umts Jul 17 09:47:14 yeh the latency sux a bit and has high variance Jul 17 09:47:32 yeah, i've been tethering my phone to a laptop for years Jul 17 09:47:37 just doing the standard tests :P Jul 17 09:50:08 i feel like it's 2003 again when i first tethered a phone to my laptop Jul 17 09:50:16 suddenly 5KBps didn't seem so slow Jul 17 09:51:47 well, 5KBps is better than nothing when you need internet somewhere for something Jul 17 09:51:57 over a 3MB download, 5.133KBps average... so i'd say 5KBps with a 600ms latency is what to expect Jul 17 09:52:03 well, voip would be the absolute killerapp ;) Jul 17 09:52:16 voip is still useful for wifi Jul 17 09:52:21 ieatlint: whats your max up+down combined? Jul 17 09:52:25 but for gprs... doubt it Jul 17 09:52:32 haven't tried upload Jul 17 09:52:38 * zedstar remember uses a 1200/75 baud modem and didnt know it was slow :) Jul 17 09:52:43 _should_ be possible... Jul 17 09:53:11 got my asterisk server up and running Jul 17 09:53:20 * ieatlint tries to think of something he quickly do to test upload Jul 17 09:53:35 scp Jul 17 09:53:59 scp isn't valid Jul 17 09:54:03 the encryption is an overhead Jul 17 09:54:08 sftp Jul 17 09:54:16 and the KBps stats are reported by throughput of actual data Jul 17 09:54:22 sftp is essentially scp Jul 17 09:55:15 netcat Jul 17 09:55:27 so what are the main problem with the neo freerunner at the moment? Jul 17 09:55:33 problems Jul 17 09:55:38 my first modem was an 14.4, later i got an 38.4 and after some time my frind got ISDN then i could enherit his 54k. that were the days 4k/sec down what a speed Jul 17 09:55:38 u can also try ttcp if u wanna look at tcp throughput Jul 17 09:56:03 right now i've an unroutable ip Jul 17 09:56:17 14.4 was my first too :) Jul 17 09:56:22 38.4 -> 33.6 Jul 17 09:56:25 youngsters ;) Jul 17 09:56:39 28.8k jump was so exciting Jul 17 09:56:44 http://oreilly.com/pub/h/1058 Jul 17 09:57:58 just swap the < > Jul 17 09:58:22 might still work Jul 17 09:59:03 it may Jul 17 09:59:05 will try Jul 17 09:59:45 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.729 <- with codes like that, voip over gprs seams to be absolute possible Jul 17 09:59:51 s/codes/codecs/ Jul 17 09:59:51 fish_ meant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.729 <- with codecs like that, voip over gprs seams to be absolute possible Jul 17 10:00:02 coooool Jul 17 10:00:28 mickey|zzZZzz: I have a bunch of other questions Jul 17 10:00:37 s/o*/oo/ Jul 17 10:00:47 when i used modem it was the time were you always looked at the clock, but after some time i just accepted that an internet session were around 2 hours or around 3EUR Jul 17 10:01:17 it goes Jul 17 10:01:46 i've bin testing the gps a bit now.. do anyone know why i can get a fix when the microSD card is not inside the phone.. and when i take it out, i'm getting a fix in less than 1min? Jul 17 10:02:02 effbiai: Read the ML. Jul 17 10:02:12 effbiai, read your own sentence Jul 17 10:02:17 heh Jul 17 10:02:26 *cant* Jul 17 10:02:39 does it block th signals? Jul 17 10:02:50 no, it doesn't block Jul 17 10:02:51 gremlins Jul 17 10:02:55 it creates interference Jul 17 10:03:04 like trying to listen to the radio under power lines Jul 17 10:03:05 ah, okay Jul 17 10:03:13 yeh, i know what inteference is Jul 17 10:03:24 ah but how to stop it Jul 17 10:03:35 so would that be a hardware bug never to be fixed on this version? Jul 17 10:03:35 chain saw works for the power lines Jul 17 10:03:44 drop in ferrite Jul 17 10:03:52 even with an antenna? Jul 17 10:04:07 there are both software and hardware fixes in the mi Jul 17 10:04:07 x Jul 17 10:04:34 i hear a software fix is already available... turns off the sd card while the gps gets its fix and then turns it back on (one you have a fix, it keeps it quite well) Jul 17 10:05:05 ieatlint: wrong, what it does is turn the sd card clock off when it's idle Jul 17 10:05:08 no specifics on what the hardware fix entails, openmoko/fic are keeping it mum until they test it thoroughly Jul 17 10:05:21 ok, i am wrong, what he said Jul 17 10:05:39 just the same, i'll spite you for pointing out i'm wrong ... you'll see :P Jul 17 10:05:54 *shiver* Jul 17 10:06:47 i will smite you, and you will be ... err, whatever the simple past participle of "to smite" is Jul 17 10:07:10 smoten maybe.. Jul 17 10:07:31 hm, did it even pass fcc emissions standards? Jul 17 10:07:34 smitten? Jul 17 10:07:38 fucking confusing english Jul 17 10:07:43 no, smitten is something else i think Jul 17 10:07:59 like, i'm smitten with my girlfriend Jul 17 10:08:09 hah, yeah, right. Jul 17 10:08:37 ok, upload average over 1MB is 2.64KBps Jul 17 10:08:48 kd8ikt: it's not all that much noise, the gps signals are really weak Jul 17 10:08:53 or about 21kbit... so 24kbit is probably the perfect Jul 17 10:09:27 running it again to see if it differs Jul 17 10:09:49 heh, apparently smitten is a past participle of to smite Jul 17 10:09:52 so it smit Jul 17 10:10:08 you will be smit, you will have been smitten ... i think Jul 17 10:10:21 as i said, fucking english.. Jul 17 10:10:24 wtf Jul 17 10:10:24 how do you go about getting hardware fixes anyway? could some one give me an example? Jul 17 10:10:38 i smote you... i will smite you Jul 17 10:10:40 ieatlint if you wanna try: http://people.openmoko.org/werner/uImage-andy-20080716 should have the sw-fixes Jul 17 10:10:42 jonsmith1982: that would depend on the hardware fix Jul 17 10:10:56 some more double-blind testing with MP devices cannot mean harm Jul 17 10:11:01 roh, oh, i'm on my 4th beer... trying code will have to wait Jul 17 10:11:12 ieatlint hrhr Jul 17 10:13:45 if its not a DIY job then, you basically have to fork out more cash? and maybe send off the phone for so long? Jul 17 10:13:48 freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r9a0ffef3e130 10/framework/subsystems/ophoned/ (gsm.py ophoned.py protocol.py test.py): ophoned works better now Jul 17 10:13:48 freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r96dce7f0b78f 10/tests/ (tasklet.py test.py): More tests Jul 17 10:14:13 anyone try that image yet? Jul 17 10:16:45 i've tested it.. but not in a while Jul 17 10:19:31 bobkare: fyi last i checked any elecronic device needs to be FCC approved before sale/marketing Jul 17 10:20:24 there seems to also be a conv about it in the ML Jul 17 10:21:02 kd8ikt: they have at least gotten an fcc id thingy to stamp on it so i would assume it passes Jul 17 10:23:43 ok back to fixing the darn GPS /SDcard RFI Jul 17 10:25:05 fixing ? Jul 17 10:25:07 has anyone built a kernel for the FR? Jul 17 10:25:34 i could right ow if i so wished Jul 17 10:27:15 i'm a bit confused as to the process... i've chekced out the git from git.openmoko.org (git clone git://git.openmoko.org/git/kernel.git linux-2.6) ...switched to a branch (stable) and have applied the quilt from the SVN patchset.. Jul 17 10:28:01 it doesnt seem as if the patches were applied as there are several errors. is there a more current patchset than https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ ? Jul 17 10:28:45 the wiki is lacking on documentation from what i can find :/ Jul 17 10:28:49 http://stian.lunafish.org/blog-20080615-1.php Jul 17 10:29:10 checkout that juicy nugget Jul 17 10:29:10 * swc|666 looks... Jul 17 10:29:45 kd8ikt :D Jul 17 10:29:49 did you cd kernel/dir & git checkout origin/andy Jul 17 10:29:58 origin/stable Jul 17 10:30:26 mw|: tells me thats what brings in the moko specific patches/branches Jul 17 10:30:27 damn AT&T sim won't work Jul 17 10:30:39 must be a 3g or somethin Jul 17 10:31:56 doesn't mater if the sim is 3g or not (those are additive features)... the sim they used in the first generation, first revision iphones never worked in any other phones if it ended in a specific code.. i was just wishing Jul 17 10:32:30 i just vaguely remember reading something in the wiki about sim cards not working Jul 17 10:33:08 yeah... at&t page Jul 17 10:33:09 lol Jul 17 10:33:24 didn't change with the freeruner Jul 17 10:34:31 at&t sims dont work w/ the FR ? Jul 17 10:34:33 yo Jul 17 10:35:54 w00t, my freerunner shipped today. Jul 17 10:37:18 heh Jul 17 10:37:23 only a specific batch of sims Jul 17 10:37:39 but it was a batch they sold a lot of Jul 17 10:37:40 lol Jul 17 10:37:41 the moko that is soon to be mine is a state away Jul 17 10:38:08 i get to drive across state to pick it up Jul 17 10:38:24 damn Jul 17 10:38:40 hopefully like like 8hrs from now it will be in my grasps Jul 17 10:38:50 its only a 2hr drive Jul 17 10:41:03 swc|666 you do not need the svn patches anymore. already in the git branches Jul 17 10:41:15 swc|666 svn stuff regarding kernel is old Jul 17 10:41:39 thanks Jul 17 10:43:13 there is a possibility to update u-boot in NOR flash? Jul 17 10:43:51 swc|666 propably we should see if we can resolve that confusion by removing the stuff from svn and see if anything in git is missing (e.g. for gta01) Jul 17 10:44:24 roh: that would definitely alleviate confusion ;) Jul 17 10:44:47 Why do you get redirected to docs.openmoko.org instead of the wiki when you type openmoko.org? :P Jul 17 10:44:47 hmmm Jul 17 10:44:54 git vs subversion Jul 17 10:45:03 hmm Jul 17 10:45:58 spydon interresting question. Jul 17 10:46:40 I think more people use the wiki then the docs actually Jul 17 10:47:00 it should redirect to the wiki i think.. will investigate Jul 17 10:50:49 hmmm... i just noticed that despite my phone being plugged into my computer, the battery is still draining (albeit, slowly) Jul 17 10:50:56 works again Jul 17 10:51:09 roh: are you going to be at the ICMP? Jul 17 10:51:13 but 5v/500mAh isn't enough to power the phone? Jul 17 10:51:24 fish_ not sure yet. i guess so Jul 17 10:51:50 ieatlint what os is running on the computer? Jul 17 10:51:57 2007,2 Jul 17 10:52:15 kd8ikt thank you VERY much... that info is invaluable ;) Jul 17 10:53:17 hello, I am looking for help with the Ar6K Wifi driver in OpenMoko. Is there anybody there who worked on the wifi part ? Jul 17 10:54:33 there seems to be a problem with newer sim cards and the openmoko Jul 17 10:55:01 specifically att sim cards, i'd add Jul 17 10:55:17 Hi when I trying to ssh in to Neo1970 it is giving me this Error "Permission denied (publickey,password)" How to resolve this ? Jul 17 10:55:21 my tmobile sim card will work for 3g and works fine in the FR Jul 17 10:55:51 ieatlint: i tried with an UICC/USIM card and it does not work well Jul 17 10:56:14 would that be a manufacturer? Jul 17 10:56:17 Drakou: just sent you a mail :) Jul 17 10:56:21 hello Jul 17 10:56:56 does someone know who I can talk with about ar6k driver from openmoko? Jul 17 10:56:57 ieatlint: it seems to be a standard, i have just retrieved it from tech support at netcom in norway Jul 17 10:57:13 Hi, Jul 17 10:57:29 do you know if the code for sim card communication lie in the modem or if its open? Jul 17 10:57:38 freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * rd1c8ec4e2c91 10/framework/subsystems/ophoned/ (gsm.py ophoned.py test.py): Minor changes Jul 17 10:58:07 in the modem Jul 17 10:58:11 t80kka: talk to the mailing list Jul 17 10:58:24 t80kka: sameo (the driver's author) rarely joins irc Jul 17 10:58:26 ieatlint: is it open source? Jul 17 10:58:29 i have 4 sim cards, all 4 can register ... Jul 17 10:58:33 no Jul 17 10:58:34 ok balrog-kun Jul 17 10:58:42 balrog-kun: thank you, I will try to contact sameo. Concerning the last problem, it was an electrical bus problem, not software. Jul 17 10:58:42 the AT commands are documented Jul 17 10:58:52 but your only interface to the gsm modem is through at commands Jul 17 10:58:53 Drakou: oh ok Jul 17 10:59:10 i see. Jul 17 10:59:20 t80kka, I also know the ar6K driver well. Jul 17 10:59:32 if you have questions, maybe i can answer Jul 17 10:59:34 note that the at commands are rather complete Jul 17 11:00:11 there's a 67 page document from from 3gpp, and then custom ones to the calypso Jul 17 11:00:29 ieatlint: i'll read up on them :) you dont happen to have a link? Jul 17 11:00:35 balrog-kun: seems that a lot of people is interrested in making this driver work :p Jul 17 11:01:03 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hardware:AT_Commands Jul 17 11:01:20 that also links to the 3gpp document Jul 17 11:01:31 thanks a lot! Jul 17 11:01:45 Drakou: yeah, funny thing, accton must be selling them a lot - while i heard that it was supposed to be an atheros internal project not for sale :p Jul 17 11:02:55 balrog-kun: Yes , they sell the chips, but the driver support is bad. I keep talking to them everyday about our problems with the ar6K driver but they seem to be unable to find the solutions or even know what is the problems. Jul 17 11:03:37 i've a sim from tmobile still in its full "credit card sized" thing... keep meaning to put it into my smartcard reader to dick aorund with it Jul 17 11:04:34 * kd8ikt has an evil genious thought of where the fudge is the imei hiding Jul 17 11:05:12 muwahaha Jul 17 11:05:12 you won't be able to change the imei if you're hoping :P Jul 17 11:05:25 :( cmon nothings impossible Jul 17 11:05:36 also its worthless when one doesnt change the imsi Jul 17 11:05:56 not to mention, it won't buy you much Jul 17 11:06:09 exactly. Jul 17 11:06:26 it's not like there's a black market for FRs Jul 17 11:06:26 what would be really neat is to decode cellular streams Jul 17 11:06:33 heh Jul 17 11:06:56 yeah, you're not going to be able to do that even if you could change the imei Jul 17 11:07:21 whats the encryption protocol gsm uses these days Jul 17 11:07:41 doesnt matter Jul 17 11:08:15 a) one can break it with rainbow tables given enough ram and time b) the link from the BTS to the backend is rarely every crypted Jul 17 11:08:31 BTS? Jul 17 11:08:38 the 'mast' Jul 17 11:09:15 think i read some shmoo paper about brute forcing gsm encryption awhile back Jul 17 11:09:21 even trying will land you in prison, no matter what country you're in Jul 17 11:09:28 its like a wifi access-point in a centralised solution doing central locating, routing, addressing etc. the bts itself doesnt do much. especially not authenticate you Jul 17 11:09:58 Lol: WTF = Where The Fudge Jul 17 11:10:45 besides, if you want to screw with hacking gsm, the FR isn't the ideal platofrm Jul 17 11:10:59 in the end all information one wants are in the HLR (home location register) and get updated everytime you move the cell. Jul 17 11:11:08 http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=757 Jul 17 11:11:20 because that hlr is asked for where to route the call when the mobile should ring Jul 17 11:12:20 ieatlint that module gives you about the same level of access to gsm as a neo. an at-interpreter like every other phone also. Jul 17 11:12:20 http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=280 for a usb interface :P Jul 17 11:12:45 yeah, but my point is that the FR is not optimal for any sort of hacking situation Jul 17 11:12:49 it is a portable computer Jul 17 11:12:57 yes and no ;) Jul 17 11:13:36 besides, don't you just want to build something really cool with one of those gsm modems? :P Jul 17 11:13:39 i mean.. of course its that.. but one can hack with any hw.. its just that the gsm part is hard to get working properly, hacking it also gives one no real gain Jul 17 11:14:31 find an OBDII interpreter and plug it into a car and broadcast gps and OBDII info over the internet :P Jul 17 11:14:50 i want one of those cellular jammers Jul 17 11:14:57 that'd be fun to play with Jul 17 11:15:02 my uncle has one Jul 17 11:15:05 "i can see you were going 60mph down this road at 3krpm and 35mpg" Jul 17 11:15:16 hehe, yeah Jul 17 11:15:22 sadly illegal in the US Jul 17 11:15:34 but the police wouldn't know what it was if they saw it Jul 17 11:16:17 thats ugh, my g/f's wireless vibrator remote Jul 17 11:16:47 i'm honestly not sure how to read that sentence Jul 17 11:17:04 but that'd be one hell of an advanced remote control vibrator if it had a gsm modem attached Jul 17 11:18:26 they should add an rfid reader to the gta03... it'd be a lot of fun Jul 17 11:18:34 reading passports and transit cards Jul 17 11:19:22 and a mag stripe! Jul 17 11:19:39 and a barcode reader! and a QR code reader Jul 17 11:19:52 heh Jul 17 11:20:03 if the gta03 has a camera, it'll support barcodes and QR through software Jul 17 11:20:12 and a coffee machine Jul 17 11:20:17 but seriously, rfid would rule :P Jul 17 11:20:20 ieatlint: reading? pah... reading... ;-) Jul 17 11:20:22 it better have auto focus Jul 17 11:20:38 kd8ikt, okay, but it'll be a film camera Jul 17 11:20:40 and near focus Jul 17 11:21:09 lots of those qr codes are tiny Jul 17 11:21:30 only one i could find in my room on short notice was on a RF crystal Jul 17 11:22:22 wonder what kind of good info is on it Jul 17 11:22:44 sure it is a qr and not a datamatrix? Jul 17 11:23:18 dunno how does one tell them apart Jul 17 11:23:59 that's easy: Jul 17 11:24:33 http://www.reality.hk/wp-content/uploads/qrcode2.png Jul 17 11:24:38 vs: Jul 17 11:24:39 http://www.barcodemobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/WindowsLiveWriter/WhatareDatamatrixTwoDimensionalCodes_B4BC/datamatrix[6].png Jul 17 11:24:43 http://www.idautomation.com/press/DataMatrixSymbol.gif Jul 17 11:24:56 the alignment patterns make the obvious difference Jul 17 11:25:38 look the same to me Jul 17 11:26:40 kd8ikt: the qr code has three position detection patterns on the edges and on the lower right edge a indented one Jul 17 11:26:52 i hope my freerunner arives next month. If i only do some software development is there a need for buying the debug board? Jul 17 11:27:15 Xilent, no Jul 17 11:27:20 the datamatrix has a cross of a solid followed by a "black/white/black/white/black/white..." line Jul 17 11:28:07 ieatlint, thx Jul 17 11:29:37 damn, i should get to bed Jul 17 11:34:16 * kd8ikt must get ready for a 2hr drive Jul 17 11:34:42 /catch ya later, next time you hear from me i will be a proud/frustrated moko owner Jul 17 11:44:03 hm is i see tereis a little wirld. on wiki some one was wrote that debugboard is needed to flash NOR. but as i see in script you need only boot Openmoko copy flashnor.sh nor-gta02v5.bin into phone, and run flashnor.sh on phone http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/U-Boot_Test_Cases#Test_Case_.2318 <- why i need debugboard to do this? Jul 17 11:45:51 some one can explain why i need debugboard for this? Jul 17 11:47:31 ok, never mind Jul 17 11:47:34 o now why Jul 17 11:47:42 s/o/i/ Jul 17 11:47:43 NineX meant: i now why Jul 17 11:48:09 s/o now why/i know why/ Jul 17 11:48:09 NineX meant: i know why Jul 17 11:48:23 just 12 hours of battery lifetime with Qtopia .. it's a bit short :s Jul 17 11:50:54 gprs ftl :) Jul 17 11:59:11 yo Jul 17 12:22:06 question... when building the kernel for the FR, do i want yes or no for this? CPU Frequency scaling (CPU_FREQ) [N/y/?] (NEW) Jul 17 12:22:28 heh Jul 17 12:23:11 w00t Jul 17 12:23:13 OUT FOR DELIVERY Jul 17 12:23:18 FR? Jul 17 12:23:19 me too Jul 17 12:23:19 ;D Jul 17 12:23:30 Hope the truck doesn't get hijacked? Jul 17 12:23:35 swc|666: Enabling this option, you can set the clock frequency according to what you need. I think, you can enhance battery life. Jul 17 12:23:38 ;p Jul 17 12:23:41 * kd8ikt will be the jacker Jul 17 12:23:47 :D Jul 17 12:23:56 10 moko's all for me Jul 17 12:24:10 cnwdup - sounds good, thanx Jul 17 12:24:26 moko moko moko Jul 17 12:25:11 (BREAKING NEWS)(AP/REUTERS) - Presidential Candidate Barack Obama was shot and killed while speaking at a Minnesota High School. Ayman Al Zawahiri has released a statement, stating Al Qaeda issues responsibility. Details will be updated at theonion.com as more details are learned. Jul 17 12:26:03 we arent that lucky hsv-al Jul 17 12:26:09 hsv-al: nice spam Jul 17 12:26:34 kd8ikt: lucky? i don't think so. Jul 17 12:26:37 :D Jul 17 12:26:41 lucky would be if bush got assassinated. Jul 17 12:26:44 that would be luck. Jul 17 12:26:45 anyone built fso using mokomakefile ? Jul 17 12:26:51 lawl Jul 17 12:27:18 maybe if a meteorite fell on AIPAC HQ while all the neocons were there getting rimbjos Jul 17 12:27:22 rimjobs. Jul 17 12:27:23 mine's stopping at python-pygobject-native, despite me doing a clean/update/rebuild Jul 17 12:27:34 :D Jul 17 12:28:09 dude i cant make anything with the mokomake Jul 17 12:28:28 /bin/sh: line 1: 28389 Killed ( bitbake openmoko-devel-image u-boot-openmoko ) Jul 17 12:28:31 make: *** [openmoko-devel-image] Error 137 Jul 17 12:29:03 Hum, one question, is there any evolution beetween kernel release and daily release? Jul 17 12:29:25 mickey|zzZZzz: wake up :-) Jul 17 12:29:41 oh its thinks mkdosfs is in /bin Jul 17 12:29:49 when in reality my system says /usr/sbin/mkdosfs Jul 17 12:31:23 hm arent there universal ways to find a program and load its path like say hm, export MKDOSFS='whereis mkdosfs' Jul 17 12:31:43 which Jul 17 12:31:47 `which mkdosfs` Jul 17 12:31:59 or, just run it without an absolute path ... Jul 17 12:32:11 unless it's not in your $PATH, in which case `which` isn't going to help. Jul 17 12:33:04 or be lazy and ... ln -s /usr/sbin/mkdosfs /bin/mkdosfs Jul 17 12:33:25 anyone seen this error before when compiling a kernel? Jul 17 12:33:26 arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-ld: unrecognized option '-Wl,-rpath-link,/usr/local/openmoko/arm/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/lib' Jul 17 12:33:45 hm its still erroring out Jul 17 12:36:07 another unset LDFLAGS seemed to fix it Jul 17 12:38:13 well hey feel free to add it to the wiki if you know i gotta run Jul 17 12:38:25 it'd be much appreciated Jul 17 12:39:12 i'm taking notes Jul 17 12:44:29 righty, has anyone tried a recent daily asu snapshot recently and is power management working to the same level as the 2007.2 image?? Jul 17 12:44:44 I have not tried one since the end of last month Jul 17 12:45:39 as I am off to LugRadio Live tomorrow and a few people want to have a play with the freerunner but I am just pondering what image to put on it Jul 17 12:46:03 ASU seems to be what the future has in store Jul 17 12:47:09 yeah that is what I thought only the last snapshot I used never used to wake up Jul 17 12:48:03 putting the 2007.2 image on is a bit of a dead end at the moment and the FSO stack means that I would not be able to show people things like tangogps running on it etc etc Jul 17 12:51:21 where do we get ASU for neo1973? Jul 17 12:51:33 hi i need help flashing the freerunner Jul 17 12:51:42 when i run dfutil from ubuntu Jul 17 12:51:59 i get this error : dfu-util - (C) 2007 by OpenMoko Inc. Jul 17 12:51:59 This program is Free Software and has ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY Jul 17 12:51:59 More than one DFU capable USB device found, you might try `--list' and then disconnect all but one device Jul 17 12:52:22 torpor: here for example : http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/200807/20080715/ Jul 17 12:52:29 dfu is used in more than just the openmoko .. Jul 17 12:52:31 you want the x11 qtopia image Jul 17 12:52:40 so find your other dfu-capable devices. Jul 17 12:52:40 can anyone help? Jul 17 12:52:43 Tig|: thanks, i'll try that Jul 17 12:52:49 torpor: help :) Jul 17 12:53:09 newb: do what it says, run dfu-util --list and look for other dfu-capable devices on your USB bus Jul 17 12:53:33 torpor: i got two devices Jul 17 12:53:42 torpor: on my laptop Jul 17 12:53:55 disconnect the one you don't want to flash, I guess Jul 17 12:54:09 bagpuss_thecat: how do i disconnect? they are all internal Jul 17 12:54:40 I've never used dfu-util... does dfu-util --help say anything about how to pick the device that you want to flash? Jul 17 12:55:00 bagpuss_thecat: it doesn't say anything :( Jul 17 12:55:04 yes it does Jul 17 12:55:57 balrog-kun: yes it does Jul 17 12:55:57 but i'm not sure Jul 17 12:55:57 how to flash Jul 17 12:56:03 -d vendor:productid Jul 17 12:56:29 replace vendor/product with the details for your freerunner (i don't know what they are) and then off you go .. Jul 17 12:57:36 torpor: ok Jul 17 12:58:59 torpor: i don't get it Jul 17 12:59:09 torpor: it doesn't list on my machine unless i actually boot into it Jul 17 12:59:11 when i boot in Jul 17 12:59:24 i get an unknown USB Communications Network in my Network applet Jul 17 13:01:09 i suggest you read the FAQ about using DFU on the wiki Jul 17 13:01:09 it's not showing up in lsusb Jul 17 13:01:23 because yu're booting your freerunner .. you should be starting it with u-boot first, not letting it boot. Jul 17 13:01:43 hold down aux and power as you turn on the freerunner and you will get the dfu menu Jul 17 13:01:46 uboot menu i mean Jul 17 13:01:49 from there you do the upgrade Jul 17 13:01:56 but this is a FAQ, yo Jul 17 13:04:33 i'm confused (tired)... where do i get mkimage??? Jul 17 13:04:56 torpor: this is what i get on lsusb for the freerunner: Bus 003 Device 014: ID 1d50:5119 Jul 17 13:05:05 torpor: now i'm not sure what dfutil command i should fire Jul 17 13:05:13 how i can tell dfutil to look for this device? Jul 17 13:05:43 newb: easiest thing to do is just unplug all the other usb devices apart from the freerunner Jul 17 13:06:08 Tig|: I'm on a laptop. these are all internal devices like bluetooth Jul 17 13:06:30 erk Jul 17 13:06:43 hang on will get my freerunner and a usb cable and have a look :) Jul 17 13:06:57 newb: -d Jul 17 13:07:07 balrog-kun: -d and? Jul 17 13:07:10 Bus 003 Device 014: ID 1d50:5119 Jul 17 13:07:14 this how you tell dfuutil to look for this device Jul 17 13:07:40 balrog-kun: but there is no name for the device Jul 17 13:07:45 swc|666: dev-embedded/u-boot-tools on gentoo Jul 17 13:08:19 newb: don't use name, 14:58 < torpor> -d vendor:productid Jul 17 13:08:23 mw| i'm on Debian :/ Jul 17 13:08:34 swc|666: search for u-boot or uboot ? Jul 17 13:08:44 * swc|666 looks Jul 17 13:09:08 balrog-kun: u mean enter those numbers? Jul 17 13:09:14 balrog-kun: ok Jul 17 13:09:14 found it Jul 17 13:09:52 swc|666: uboot-mkimage (lenny and sid) Jul 17 13:10:08 yep.. got it ... thanx ;) Jul 17 13:10:18 balrog-kun: yuppp! :) thats what it is Jul 17 13:10:36 * swc|666 needs sleep, but cant until he tests his new kernel modules Jul 17 13:13:12 :) Jul 17 13:15:13 torpor: can i make phone calls from the last stable release image? Jul 17 13:17:26 anyone know where i can pull andy's kernel tree?......want to use it as a default kernel for the images....(assuming its not the case) Jul 17 13:18:19 cg-clone git://git.openmoko.org/git/kernel.git#andy should work Jul 17 13:18:37 i hear that andy and stable are very much in sync now though Jul 17 13:18:43 is anyone working with ubuntu mobile Jul 17 13:18:50 i don't know what is used for images though, maybe something else entirely Jul 17 13:20:47 is easy to compile kde for openmoko? Jul 17 13:22:03 awesomo4k: nup. Jul 17 13:22:24 their ui looks pretty slick. (a bit iphoney) Jul 17 13:22:44 no interest. Jul 17 13:23:38 ubuntu mobile is focused on x86 intel pc's Jul 17 13:23:53 uninteresting to OM Jul 17 13:24:01 hello, i read the Summary of the gps problems...but it doesn't say anything about thoses who have the rootfs on their sd card...will it be possible to have the rootfs in a sd-card and use the gps? Jul 17 13:24:47 Gnutoo: just dont do any file IO while getting a gps fix Jul 17 13:25:02 Gnutoo: My guess would be yes, you mostly won't do IO at all unless the user is doing something other than waiting for the gps to get a fix Jul 17 13:25:06 streams Jul 17 13:25:32 hei balrogkun ^^ Jul 17 13:26:05 I thought there was a possible fix by feeding the gps a bit more juice, but I thought the jury was still out on exactly what the issue was (I know it works better without the sd card in) Jul 17 13:26:15 heehee Jul 17 13:26:21 oh does it? Jul 17 13:26:25 Tig|: apparently upping the voltage didn't help Jul 17 13:26:32 bobkare: damn :( Jul 17 13:26:35 I find that rather dubious. Jul 17 13:26:39 right Jul 17 13:26:47 From what I heard that wasn't the issue. Jul 17 13:27:00 ok thanks a lot...so will there be a patch for preventing it from doing I/O when when the gps get the initial position Jul 17 13:27:16 eh? Jul 17 13:27:29 the current software fix is to turn off the clock for the sd card reader when it's not in use Jul 17 13:27:37 :o Jul 17 13:27:56 Gnutoo: probably not, blocking i/o like that would cause all kinds of trouble Jul 17 13:28:01 bobkare, yes that's why i'm asking...because if it's in use...by the os Jul 17 13:28:22 Gnutoo: just don't watch video while trying to get a gps fix Jul 17 13:28:26 :P Jul 17 13:28:40 Well, or play random media... Jul 17 13:28:56 or loading maps for your gps software Jul 17 13:28:59 that is, don't use the media player, or only use media which is cacheable enough :) Jul 17 13:29:11 awesomo4k: Which you might as well wait with until you have something resembling a fix ;) Jul 17 13:29:19 :) Jul 17 13:29:33 awesomo4k: how much map data are you loading that it will continously access the sd card for a minute? Jul 17 13:29:44 (a bit silly to load all of Europe if you only need Northern Jutland anyway ;) ) Jul 17 13:29:56 oh... my 1 foot resolution sat photos of course Jul 17 13:30:14 awesomo4k: u wont be loadng maps... until u know whre u are.. which needs a gps fix. Jul 17 13:30:15 :) Jul 17 13:30:28 i don't know where i am even when i get a fix Jul 17 13:30:29 and this would be loaded into what? the many gigabytes of ram the FR doesn't have? Jul 17 13:30:31 awesomo4k: u may have an initial load of a map for "the world" Jul 17 13:30:36 or a zoomed out location Jul 17 13:30:41 but that will stop quickly enough Jul 17 13:30:47 awesomo4k: Well, the freerunner then, not you ;) Jul 17 13:30:47 allowing idle space for the gps fix to happen Jul 17 13:30:52 bobkare, ah that's all? so it won't access the sd card in order to make the OS run.... Jul 17 13:30:55 once u have a fix the interference isnt a blocker Jul 17 13:30:57 it seems Jul 17 13:31:16 so the occasional noise coming from IO to the sd card isnt going to break anything Jul 17 13:31:25 is there any way tinfoil can help with this Jul 17 13:32:06 Gnutoo: no, you normally don't have i/o going all the time. just look at the hdd led on your computer, if your computer isn't sick it won't be lit all the time... Jul 17 13:32:18 yup Jul 17 13:32:24 awesomo4k: Yeah, make a hat out of it, i hear that alleviates all sorts of stuff ;) Jul 17 13:32:29 remember there is cache - using unused ram for disk cache Jul 17 13:32:35 avoiding going back to disk for lots of io Jul 17 13:33:22 awesomo4k: the OM people seem to think there is a way to fix this in HW that won't be too intrusive. we'll just have to wait until they have tested it to their satisfaction and see what it's about Jul 17 13:33:28 Dave: that voltage patch certainly did something for me... before i never saw a satellite with sd card in Jul 17 13:33:30 balrog-kun, yeah, thanks...maybe i will add a recipe in my local tree Jul 17 13:33:38 bobkare: thx... Jul 17 13:33:48 Dave: the sd card clock patches made it work even better though Jul 17 13:34:20 bobkare, ok thanks a lot Jul 17 13:34:31 trickie: A patch which in itself is a good idea - having that clock on all the time in a mobile device is just a bit silly :) Jul 17 13:34:58 for sure Jul 17 13:35:07 yep, should save power... Jul 17 13:35:40 recall the glamo _was supposed_ to cut the clock anyway when the card wasn't in use. The issue might've gone unnoticed if it did ;P Jul 17 13:40:02 weird Jul 17 13:40:11 people are not able to hear me when i call them :( Jul 17 13:41:09 think it's a h/w issue? Jul 17 13:41:43 newb: I did ssh to the phone and adjusted the volume with alsamixer and then they could hear me... Jul 17 13:41:54 TeNoVi: how? :) Jul 17 13:42:14 Have you done ssh? Jul 17 13:42:34 not to the openmoko Jul 17 13:43:35 newb: I see there is written something about this in the wiki... http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner#Adjusting_the_Volume Jul 17 13:51:53 TeNoVi: weird! atleast the mic should be calibrated b4 hand :( Jul 17 13:51:58 TenoVi: how do i adjust? i got alsamixer running thru ssh Jul 17 13:52:39 newb: see the link he posted it tells you how Jul 17 13:56:54 newb: I strangled a bit yesterday. Try to make a call, and adjust at the same time. Try to find the right one. Jul 17 14:04:14 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r59ed2a388397 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/ubx.py: ogpsd: Implement more UBX messages Jul 17 14:06:45 Hi people Jul 17 14:06:51 Can I ask a question? Jul 17 14:07:04 yeah just ask Jul 17 14:07:08 Thanks Jul 17 14:07:19 Well I tried to flash my Freerunner. Jul 17 14:07:44 Like said as the example to the kernel... but it failed a few times now, it won't boot anymore Jul 17 14:08:11 rxshorty what's your setup Jul 17 14:08:42 I tried in Ubuntu... But is there way to load the images in the dfu-util to the Micro Sd card? Jul 17 14:08:57 ./dfu-util -a kernel -R -D uImage-2.6.24+git20080424-om-gta02.bin I did like this... Jul 17 14:09:14 but instead of kernel is there a way to point it (mount) it to the Micro SD? Jul 17 14:11:31 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Boot_from_sd_card Jul 17 14:11:57 i'm no expert on that but there's a doc :) Jul 17 14:12:03 anyone else get smudges on their neo1973 screens, ever? Jul 17 14:12:24 hmm thanks awesome4k Jul 17 14:12:49 going to try that again then.. you also know something about the problem that my battery isn't charging? Jul 17 14:13:00 Then again, not anymore after the flash Jul 17 14:15:32 can anyone tell me how to adjust the microphone volume in alsamixer? it's too confusing for me :( Jul 17 14:16:11 newb: Hmm. I could send you a screenshot... If you would just wait a coupple of minutes Jul 17 14:16:32 ok Jul 17 14:17:03 If I manage to find it myself :P How far have you gotten to adjust the volume? Have you started alsamixer? Jul 17 14:17:36 yea Jul 17 14:18:26 use the <> buttons to select pcm Jul 17 14:19:00 i might be wrong Jul 17 14:19:02 hi Jul 17 14:19:04 http://blog.haerwu.biz/2008/07/17/using-poky-sdk-to-build-software/ Jul 17 14:19:20 this can be useful for openmoko guys Jul 17 14:19:31 I'm not shure what I adjusted yesterday. I called one to say when he could hear me clear Jul 17 14:20:29 I think I adjusted the mono slider, but I can't say why that should affect anything. I also adjusted the voice slide at the very end of the mixer... Jul 17 14:21:12 omg Jul 17 14:21:21 video streaming server over openmoko... Jul 17 14:21:22 hot Jul 17 14:21:46 newb: srry. I'm not shure I can help you. I'll have to find it myself... Maybe someone else could help you Jul 17 14:22:27 newb: mic2 according to the wiki Jul 17 14:22:38 use left/right arrows to move to each 'channel' Jul 17 14:22:44 and up/down arrows to adjust Jul 17 14:22:52 then 'esc' to save and exit Jul 17 14:23:33 trickie: It's not possible to adjust the one called mic or mic2 here... I'm not shure why. It's possible to change between them tho... Jul 17 14:23:42 trickie: ok Jul 17 14:23:54 trickie: but then how do i adjust the volume of Mic2 itself? Jul 17 14:24:09 TeNoVi: you have to run alsamixer -V all, then you see the slider for Mic2 Jul 17 14:25:14 nomeata: Ah... Thanks :P Jul 17 14:25:15 also i have this annoying issue on my laptop where i can only connect to one network interface at a time. which means if i log into the usb network, i get off the wireless. does anyone know how i can connect to both? Jul 17 14:25:57 newb: up/down arrow keys... but you need to be on the channel first (left and right arrow keys) Jul 17 14:26:15 trickie: but it shows only a Mic2 and no volume for it Jul 17 14:26:22 trickie: i have no idea which one is it Jul 17 14:26:44 newb: run "alsamixer -V all" as nomeata said to me Jul 17 14:26:53 TenoVi: lets try Jul 17 14:27:05 i now have to get off my wireless to get into the USB network :( Jul 17 14:27:11 Wait Jul 17 14:27:12 i don't know how i can keep both active Jul 17 14:27:26 try to type this into terminal first: sudo ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0 Jul 17 14:27:54 I do everytime to get a connection. I'm not shure if it has anything to do with that :P Jul 17 14:28:03 Then I ssh@openmoko Jul 17 14:28:08 TenoVi wireless is on 0 so i guess i will have to make it to 2 or 3 or 4 Jul 17 14:28:39 usb0? Jul 17 14:29:20 * TeNoVi is away: I'm busy Jul 17 14:29:35 here's a question.. whay is it that the atheros wlan wont allow for the rate to be set to anything higher than 1M ? Jul 17 14:30:51 then how do i save it? Jul 17 14:30:56 the configuration? Jul 17 14:31:02 that command in the wiki didn't work Jul 17 14:31:10 it resets to the original config when i powerdown :( Jul 17 14:32:24 how do i know what config file this is? Jul 17 14:35:01 it's supposed to be a PHONE first. the dialer takes long to load Jul 17 14:35:40 ok...honeymoon's officially over. My FR is exhibiting the "re-register with the cell network" every few minutes again...SIM is back in my RAZR for now. Jul 17 14:35:53 guess I need to start looking at the wiki articles on THIS problem now. ;-) Jul 17 14:36:28 newb: Which is why raster would rather put the dialer and sms apps into the app launcher itself :) Jul 17 14:36:36 :) Jul 17 14:36:51 anything that is "core" to the devices usage should be always-on and ready to go Jul 17 14:36:54 a lodable module Jul 17 14:36:55 and i can't figure out why ppl can't hear me :( Jul 17 14:36:59 or a process that is always running Jul 17 14:37:01 Xaos: how long have you had it before it started doing that? Jul 17 14:37:10 indeed the dialer should be always in memory Jul 17 14:37:23 raster: Yeah, i'm with you there, absolutely :) Load dialer and sms app in the background, show on request :) Jul 17 14:38:28 Hi leinir! :) Jul 17 14:38:34 dialer yes, absoutely. sms, not really timing critical. Why waste cpu cycles. Jul 17 14:38:38 * leinir curtsies to Dave :) Jul 17 14:38:51 DPThought: Where are you from? Jul 17 14:38:52 a day? less Jul 17 14:38:55 12 hours max Jul 17 14:39:00 Hey Xaos Jul 17 14:39:05 Are you still EXCITED? Jul 17 14:39:08 I had it for longer, but I had one of the bad SIMS and got a new one Jul 17 14:39:08 leinir: the dark ages i guess. :) Jul 17 14:39:12 leinir: i prefer loadable .so's in the launcher as u avoid the extra process overhead Jul 17 14:39:14 Dave: HELL YES! Jul 17 14:39:17 haha Jul 17 14:39:17 DPThought: No, i'm thinking country :) Jul 17 14:39:19 DPThought, rather, why waste memory. But yeah, SMS is iffy. Jul 17 14:39:19 but I need this fixed Jul 17 14:39:24 Don't make me tranq you again ;) Jul 17 14:39:25 leinir: germany Jul 17 14:39:31 leinir, so, what's new? Jul 17 14:39:31 is the need for multiepl proce to init, gather info about x, the system, load icons and theme data and what not. Jul 17 14:39:35 With you and/or qtopia :) Jul 17 14:39:40 raster: True, it also won't show up in the "taskbar" :) Jul 17 14:39:41 just share that existing work already done Jul 17 14:39:52 but thats me - as i already have all that module infra done and working Jul 17 14:39:52 :) Jul 17 14:40:05 leinir: and it can show up in the taskbar that way... if u want... Jul 17 14:40:13 up to the module and how it does it Jul 17 14:40:18 also processe scan run and now show up Jul 17 14:40:23 just dont map the window until needed Jul 17 14:40:25 ... Jul 17 14:40:28 it can go both ways Jul 17 14:40:35 DPThought: Right, it just sounds like something an American would say - they seem to have very very little interest in SMS :) Jul 17 14:40:46 weird Jul 17 14:40:54 raster: is ASU dialer using FSO by the way ? Jul 17 14:40:56 would it be possible to add a gyroscope to the freerunner? Jul 17 14:40:56 now i can't hear the other guy :'( Jul 17 14:41:05 raster: Aah yeah :) (it's good to have control, of course you can just make it do as you want ;) ) Jul 17 14:41:23 mickey|zzZZzz: you sleep far too much :-) Jul 17 14:41:38 ConfidentiaL1: I've superglued one of the gyroscopes I had as a kid to my FR...doesn't seem to help though Jul 17 14:41:50 btw. we hat the number normalisation topice once in a while here in this chat. I tried to make a comprehensive solution to that. See my mail devel@lists.openmoko.org Comments wellcome Jul 17 14:42:44 Ainulindale: no. its qtopia Jul 17 14:42:52 leinir: That changed considerabely in the US. They where late, but i guess they catched up prettey good Jul 17 14:43:08 help!!! :'( i have no clue how to adjust volumes Jul 17 14:43:20 i think u need a volume control application first on the moko Jul 17 14:43:21 :) Jul 17 14:43:26 raster: qtopia primitives for GSM ? Jul 17 14:43:30 DPThought: i just visited there, i must say i can see why they don't like them... paying to receive them?! Jul 17 14:44:09 Ainulindale: in qtopia its one big process (qpe) that does the dialling etc. Jul 17 14:44:19 it also serves as the phoneserver Jul 17 14:44:21 leinir: WTF!? really? This is usually only the case with international roaming Jul 17 14:44:26 raster: Because we're building dbus bindings in order to port openmoko-dialer2 to FSO, I was wondering if there was something necessary in order to allow the user to build this binding against one toolkit or another Jul 17 14:44:26 beyond that i dont know Jul 17 14:44:31 its qtopia/qt/c++ Jul 17 14:44:32 +to do Jul 17 14:44:35 i don want to know Jul 17 14:44:38 DPThought: Indeed - it's really stupid over there Jul 17 14:44:51 DPThought: The US phone customers get shafted something horribly Jul 17 14:45:20 wow...my /tmp/x.log is soaking up 4.1M...any way to turn off x.logging (and turn ON gsm.log)? Jul 17 14:46:05 leinir: would not have expected this from the country with such a history with non monopolistic and iverse phone prviders. Jul 17 14:46:16 leinir - The US gets sweetheart deals compaired to here in Canada. =P Jul 17 14:46:35 Most service providers don't require you to pay to receive SMS, if that's what you're talking about Jul 17 14:46:50 most allow you to receive for free and pay to send Jul 17 14:47:09 would it be possible to get a digital gyroscope like the one in Iphone inside our freerunners? Jul 17 14:47:13 Both Bell and Telus (CDMA) have started charging for incoming SMS's Jul 17 14:47:18 or they charge a basic rate for unlimited send and recieve Jul 17 14:47:35 ConfidentiaL1: there are two accelerometers Jul 17 14:47:37 charging for incoming calls or sms is just wrong Jul 17 14:47:57 thank god civilized telcos dont do that Jul 17 14:47:58 :) Jul 17 14:48:22 ezekiel-v3: but that cant register tilt, can it? Jul 17 14:48:34 * newb thinks he should flash his freerunner AGAIN! Jul 17 14:49:03 * newb can't figure out how to adjust volumes now he can't even hear the guy at the other end :'( Jul 17 14:49:03 I still can't get my head around the fact that my cell service is China is better then my cell service in Canada. Jul 17 14:49:15 s/is/in Jul 17 14:49:44 newb: look here for volumes: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner#Adjusting_the_Volume Jul 17 14:49:59 Xaos: wow that guide is really helpful :'( Jul 17 14:50:02 :D Jul 17 14:50:27 * Dave starts a new wiki page: Getting_Down_and_Dirty_With_Your_Freerunner Jul 17 14:50:34 newb: when you are IN a call, there is a slider across the middle of the screen, but it only looks like it adjusts the speaker volume Jul 17 14:50:49 Dave: you got pr0n coming down the GPRS link? Jul 17 14:51:06 Xaos: but right now i don't get any volume :( Jul 17 14:51:08 No, but up the wifi link :D Jul 17 14:51:11 no matter what Jul 17 14:51:22 surfing pr0n over gprs isn't very fun Jul 17 14:51:40 (take it from one who knows) Jul 17 14:51:41 newb: don't know what to tell you...have you moved the slider while on a call? Jul 17 14:51:50 mjr - hah! Jul 17 14:51:51 :D Jul 17 14:51:51 mjr: that's just really sad Jul 17 14:51:53 ;-) Jul 17 14:51:54 Xaos: it's on FULL but still there is no sound Jul 17 14:51:56 hahaha Jul 17 14:51:58 mjr: That's why there's wifi in it ;) Jul 17 14:51:59 mjr: what if its mini-porn? Jul 17 14:52:03 it works fine over 3g :p Jul 17 14:52:04 Xaos: atleast the last time Jul 17 14:52:10 it was working Jul 17 14:52:12 newb: can you ssh into it and check the "alsamixer" ? Jul 17 14:52:13 hah, ask leinir! Jul 17 14:52:17 I'm not into midgets - nothing against them, but doesn't make me hot Jul 17 14:52:27 mjr, they'll fit on the freerunner! Jul 17 14:52:29 What kind of bandwidth can you get over grps? Jul 17 14:52:35 retracile: terrible Jul 17 14:52:39 s/grps/gprs/ Jul 17 14:52:39 retracile meant: What kind of bandwidth can you get over gprs? Jul 17 14:52:45 like 30-60kbps txp Jul 17 14:52:46 better than dial-up though...right? Jul 17 14:52:49 retracile, >50k realistically, 80k theoretically Jul 17 14:53:03 Xaos: in alsamixer now Jul 17 14:53:05 just go with 3g kthx Jul 17 14:53:12 500kbps is better :P Jul 17 14:53:34 well I have my 3g stick for the lappie and stuff, and that's just fine for porn Jul 17 14:53:45 newb: dunno...I'm working on getting my GSM connection stable first. My wife said that the mic volume need boosting too (she could hardly hear me on the call Jul 17 14:53:48 thanks Jul 17 14:53:50 hook it up to your freerunner! Jul 17 14:53:58 Xaos: ah.... Jul 17 14:54:13 Dave: My wallpaper on the freerunner right now ;) http://rubberfurs.org/user/leinir/gallery/view/charactersketches/others/They_Inflated_My_Chest-Wovstah.png (yes, i know, it's kinda funky ;) ) Jul 17 14:54:15 mjr: then you just use bluetooth pand to connect the Neo to the laptop and out the 3G Jul 17 14:55:10 leinir: OK...that wallpaper is just wrong on SOOOO many levels.. ;-) Jul 17 14:55:26 Xaos: *giggles* innit cute, though? ;) Jul 17 14:55:41 Cute in all the wrong ways ;) Jul 17 14:55:43 leinir: I need to make this my wallpaper: http://midnightresearch.com/local/images/att-nsa.png Jul 17 14:56:08 or maybe this one: http://www.eff.org/files/EFF_ATT_NSA_black.png Jul 17 14:56:16 Xaos: Hahaaa, nice one ;D Jul 17 14:56:45 what's Sidetone? Jul 17 14:56:47 anyone know? Jul 17 14:56:52 especially since that's my carrier too Jul 17 14:57:05 Xaos: Good plan, i'd say :) Jul 17 14:58:16 * newb gives up! he can't make calls on his new freerunner :'( Jul 17 14:58:34 newb: what firmware are you using? Jul 17 14:58:46 newb: Give the Qtopia image a shot... that one's confirmed to actually work :) Jul 17 14:59:01 newb: I've got the latest scaredycat image and the volume isn't great, but at least it's functional... Jul 17 14:59:27 leinir: so Qtopia is the most stable telephony distro currently? Jul 17 14:59:50 Xaos: Well, it works at any rate :) Jul 17 15:00:23 * Dave offers leinir some chocolate Jul 17 15:00:45 * leinir noms chocolate! "Omnomnomnom" ;) Jul 17 15:00:49 most stable does not equal stable...just MORE stable than the others Jul 17 15:00:51 *giggles* Thanks ;) Jul 17 15:01:08 Xaos: True *giggles* In that case yes :) Jul 17 15:02:34 leinir: stop that giggling and flirting...I'm a married man here. ;-) Jul 17 15:03:36 Hey, i'm spoken for as well (as you saw in that image, black one's me, cutie next to me's my bf ;) ), so don't worry, i'm not on the prowl ;) Jul 17 15:03:59 yes Jul 17 15:04:21 er, a/s/l? Jul 17 15:06:37 hello Jul 17 15:07:16 can you give me a hint how to close that lock screen http://img372.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot2js8.png Jul 17 15:07:22 leinir Jul 17 15:07:31 Chocky: 1mia/blarp/Neptune ;) Jul 17 15:07:52 Dave Jul 17 15:08:48 slide the thing to other end to the unlock Jul 17 15:09:02 exco: That's a borken layout - try dragging your finger up the left side... Jul 17 15:09:12 leinir: no worries...you just have a flirtatious personality it appears Jul 17 15:09:43 i've heard that before, yeah :) Jul 17 15:11:30 * Xaos is going to start digging into this GSM issue: http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1024 Jul 17 15:12:57 Leinir Jul 17 15:13:03 Dave Jul 17 15:13:12 any new qtopia tricks? Jul 17 15:13:22 leinir: noone thought of making it qvga-compatible I suppose Jul 17 15:13:45 Dave Jul 17 15:13:54 not really :) Jul 17 15:14:14 exco: Hmm? :) Jul 17 15:14:16 hmm, community mailing list full of crap. like here, but much less amusing. Jul 17 15:14:31 Chocky: Not enough pr0nz ;) Jul 17 15:14:58 can't fit much into the internal card :o Jul 17 15:15:19 Leinir, the Internet Settings portion of the Qtopia Configuration app always freezes my freerunner :( Jul 17 15:15:32 Have you experienced anything of this sort? Jul 17 15:15:54 freezerunner Jul 17 15:16:09 Not really... it is very touchy though, i can definitely confirm that part of it Jul 17 15:16:21 Which part, the entire image, or the Configuration app? Jul 17 15:16:24 Chocky: Well, not the one it ships with ;) Jul 17 15:16:28 exco: i am pretty sure it is not qvga compatible Jul 17 15:16:35 The whole thing :) Jul 17 15:16:43 I mean right now, just selecting a button under the Internet Settings portion freezes it Jul 17 15:16:46 ;[ Jul 17 15:16:47 leinir x_x Jul 17 15:16:51 hm, mine doesn't want to turn on Jul 17 15:16:53 exco: i programmed it ;) Jul 17 15:16:55 That's not very encouraging! Jul 17 15:16:59 Chocky wah wah Jul 17 15:17:11 not sure if the battery's dead or what Jul 17 15:17:14 :-) thought so, borg_ , so how do I get rid of it? Jul 17 15:17:36 how about making it compatible, borg_? Jul 17 15:18:11 Chocky: try unplugging it from USB for five minutes then reconnecting or powering it on again Jul 17 15:18:12 exco: mh, you whoud have to make qvga versions of the images and same small changes in the code Jul 17 15:18:23 otherwise, battery might have become too discharged to power up Jul 17 15:18:34 * Chocky will let it charge for a bit Jul 17 15:18:42 Is it off? Jul 17 15:19:44 If it's not powered and booted, it won't charge then, unless you've flashed the new uBoot image released about a day or so ago, or so that's my understanding. Jul 17 15:19:58 borg_: already built qvga image ... some things don't fit ... yet - like libnotify msgs, matchbox-panel-2 and that locking screen Jul 17 15:20:24 * Dave redirects his qtopia grievances to leinir Jul 17 15:21:08 mmh Jul 17 15:21:15 hum. Jul 17 15:22:26 exco: http://pastebin.ca/1074427 Jul 17 15:22:38 that is the patch i committed for the screen locker Jul 17 15:22:55 i guess the only problem ist this: Jul 17 15:22:59 # Jul 17 15:23:00 + gtk_fixed_put(GTK_FIXED(fixed), Jul 17 15:23:01 # Jul 17 15:23:01 + gtk_image_new_from_file(PKGDATADIR "/south.png"), 0, 0); Jul 17 15:23:01 # Jul 17 15:23:03 + GtkWidget *drag = gtk_image_new_from_file(PKGDATADIR "/drag.png"); Jul 17 15:23:07 # Jul 17 15:23:09 + gtk_fixed_put(GTK_FIXED(fixed), drag, 190, 0); Jul 17 15:23:46 this shouldn't be a fixed size Jul 17 15:25:07 so how do we replace it with the actuak Jul 17 15:25:11 darned Jul 17 15:25:33 actual screen diagonal - %? Jul 17 15:25:38 * Dave wishes ecraven were here so they could team up in order establish a Neod broke my phone fund Jul 17 15:25:42 Hot damn, Freerunner IN MY HOUSE!!! Jul 17 15:25:49 arrival Jul 17 15:26:28 ok...does anybody know how to enable the gsm.log? Jul 17 15:26:46 hmm? Jul 17 15:26:56 exco: you could calculate the correct values for qvga and make ifdef's or make it somehow dymamic, i don't have the openembedded toolchain set up and i have no time to do this at the moment Jul 17 15:26:59 logging the gsm modem's activity? Jul 17 15:27:43 12986s to fix with sd card Jul 17 15:27:57 Xaos: what image? Jul 17 15:28:05 ok, thanks borg_ - I will ... could take some time though Jul 17 15:28:19 scaredycat (GTK?) Jul 17 15:29:03 I just transferred my SIM over and it registers to AT&T pretty darn quickly Jul 17 15:29:18 borg_: can you point me to the right place for matchbox panel 2 and libnotify as well? Jul 17 15:29:23 Xaos \o/ Jul 17 15:29:29 You can get the gsmd's version of events by editing /etc/init.d/gsmd and changing the log from syslog to a valid pathname instead. You can get the kernel's version of the traffic and suspend/resume events by installing a kernel from http://moko.mwester.net/fixes.html and turning on nspy. Jul 17 15:29:33 /o\ Jul 17 15:29:34 Xaos, and let me just ask you, do you have a phone plan with AT&T and is your SIM 3G? Jul 17 15:29:35 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r28084b9bbfa9 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade assassin to 198 for various bugfixes Jul 17 15:29:35 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rcee504b5109a 10/packages/qtopia-phone/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [ringtone] Make Ring Only what it says Jul 17 15:29:49 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rce8baba78677 10/packages/qtopia-phone/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [ringtone] Make Ring Only what it says Jul 17 15:29:50 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r2d0d300596ea 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade assassin to 198 for various bugfixes Jul 17 15:29:57 mwester: thanks! Jul 17 15:30:03 leinir we need a nice boot splash screen! Jul 17 15:30:09 any recommendations? :P Jul 17 15:30:19 Dave: Yes, and Yes...my original SIM was one that wouldn't work at all...traded for one that does yesterday Jul 17 15:30:39 Dave: i rather like the boot background on ASU ;) Jul 17 15:30:50 Xaos, AH! Jul 17 15:30:51 Okay good Jul 17 15:31:02 and your AT&T SIM now is 3G then, you just needed to swap it for another? Jul 17 15:31:09 leinir ~_~ Jul 17 15:31:12 bah Jul 17 15:31:36 Dave: both old and new SIM had 3G on them...the new one is the fireball one...and yes...I just swapped them Jul 17 15:31:44 oh heh alright good Jul 17 15:31:55 old one didn't work at ALL...new one seems to be doing the periodic re-registration Jul 17 15:32:01 ;\ Jul 17 15:32:08 how periodic? :D Jul 17 15:32:40 Yeah that's the one I have Jul 17 15:32:44 and I've had no problems with it Jul 17 15:32:45 dunno...have to start analyzing it...I noticed it do it a couple of times yesterday but didn't have time to mess with it...put the SIM back in my old RAZR Jul 17 15:32:56 but others seem to be convinced AT&T doesn't work at all and such :| Jul 17 15:33:12 fools Jul 17 15:33:46 hey.. do you guys have that if you press the top-back of the freerunner a bit.. that it powers off? it doesnt feel right Jul 17 15:34:36 kwek: I haven't seen that, but am I the only one that keeps picking up my FR upside down...seems like the hole should be on top for some reason Jul 17 15:35:21 yeah i have it when i press the other side.. its not the battery Jul 17 15:35:22 damn Jul 17 15:36:37 Dave: so your AT&T 3G SIM is working fine and you've not noticed any re-registering events? Jul 17 15:36:46 which image are you using? Jul 17 15:39:07 exco: no i cant, sorry Jul 17 15:39:31 Xaos, nope Jul 17 15:39:46 It always just says AT&T at the top :) Jul 17 15:40:05 Both my original AT&T sim and its replacement didn't work Jul 17 15:40:12 ok...I guess I'll keep an eye on it today and see what happens Jul 17 15:40:26 thanks anyways, borg_ Jul 17 15:40:47 * TeNoVi is back (gone 01:11:27) Jul 17 15:40:52 dlowe: go here and get a SIM that is on the Working list: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT Jul 17 15:41:08 sigh Jul 17 15:41:20 it didn't turn on because the USB cable wasn't plugged into laptop Jul 17 15:41:32 Xaos: I saw that, but they don't exactly choose the SIMs they have on stock Jul 17 15:42:10 I should check that out and possibly add to it. Jul 17 15:42:16 Chocky :p Jul 17 15:42:18 Surprise! Jul 17 15:42:24 * Chocky having a bad day Jul 17 15:42:25 dlowe: print it out and take it with you to see what they have. I got lucky in that the guy at work that handles the cell phone has a stack of different SIM cards...I just went through it and found one that worked Jul 17 15:42:37 my original was on the "Does NOT work" list Jul 17 15:42:38 almost got run over. boss trying to micro manage. Jul 17 15:42:41 inlaws staying Jul 17 15:42:48 o_O Jul 17 15:42:51 Fry's outta stock of stuff I need Jul 17 15:42:58 How is that possible? Jul 17 15:43:00 gotta wear _trousers_ at work tomorrow. Jul 17 15:43:08 Chocky's having a bad day it appears Jul 17 15:43:24 Chocky: Aww man, that's not fair... Skirts are so much more comfy! Jul 17 15:43:37 I know, but mine's at the dry cleaners Jul 17 15:43:40 * mwester presumes Chocky must work in San Fransisco, only place on planet where people come to work without pants. Jul 17 15:43:47 LOL Jul 17 15:43:55 Man, sucks Jul 17 15:44:14 heh. in the UK "pants" normally means "underpants" Jul 17 15:44:22 * Chocky is in San Diego Jul 17 15:44:41 anyway, you forgot Scotland, with kilts Jul 17 15:49:06 ok, so someone explain why my FR now says the time is 13:21 Jul 17 15:49:07 Okay well the messages interface clearly blow asschunks. Jul 17 15:49:31 I cannot even readily decipher the service messages I get from the provider :p Jul 17 15:49:32 haha Jul 17 15:49:50 then again, the vast majority of all messaging services tend to blow Jul 17 15:50:04 Though that might be interesting Jul 17 15:50:06 massaging services blow? Jul 17 15:50:12 submitting tickets via sms to the developers Jul 17 15:50:17 haha, I'm sure they'd hate that. Jul 17 15:50:27 * Chocky laffs Jul 17 15:50:30 chocky, you want happy ending? Jul 17 15:50:32 what is the limit on SMS? Jul 17 15:50:36 please. Jul 17 15:51:09 haha nice, as I was sitting here it vibrated Jul 17 15:51:18 1 New Message! Jul 17 15:51:19 hilarious. Jul 17 15:51:32 a vibrarting, blowing, massager Jul 17 15:52:22 no, what was hilarious is when I accidentally crashed one of the omt programs, and exposed the dev interface for me; I subsequently played around with the vib device and essentially turned it into a vibrator :P Jul 17 15:52:33 I wonder if clients will be begging for gui ;p Jul 17 15:53:11 My kirby (vacuum cleaner for you funnriners) with a massage attachment. The manual talks about an "invigorating massage" Jul 17 15:53:22 er, furriners Jul 17 15:53:30 :D Jul 17 15:56:58 openmoko: 03graeme 07org.openmoko.dev * r905a9d7ec21d 10/ (4 files in 3 dirs): [busybox] update to 1.11.1 taken from OE Jul 17 16:00:07 uggh Jul 17 16:00:25 so should I get this uboot update in any case? Jul 17 16:00:31 and does it make my coffee? Jul 17 16:02:22 Chocky, I am unsure. Jul 17 16:02:28 I wouldn't flash it if you don't want to brick your phone :D Jul 17 16:02:43 Does anyone have a link to that keyboard/usb issue. Jul 17 16:02:47 can use NOR flash then :p Jul 17 16:02:55 nee Jul 17 16:03:00 it wouldn't be the first time I messed up a boot loader, trust me Jul 17 16:03:06 Knight Dave? Jul 17 16:03:35 If your NOR is OK, you can't brick the device without the debug board, unless you do something stupid Jul 17 16:03:42 like drop it Jul 17 16:04:02 Well - I was specifically regferring to updating uboot several thousand times in a row. Jul 17 16:04:11 anyway, apart from obvious caveats, my question is really what the uboot improvements are? Jul 17 16:04:11 Which would make it probably not boot. Jul 17 16:04:29 SpeedEvil: yes, but mainly because I'd be bored to death Jul 17 16:04:39 or I supposed you could script it :p Jul 17 16:04:43 Chocky: they add a NSA backdoor. Jul 17 16:04:57 you mean there wasn't one already? for shame! Jul 17 16:05:56 Chocky: in the last couple of days, u-boot got a series of patches to fix power-on with low/missing battery. The workaround to enable SD-booting a kernel from ext2 also got applied. Jul 17 16:06:04 sweet Jul 17 16:06:19 * Chocky blows kisses to whoever did that Jul 17 16:07:44 It'd be nice if the phone stored my phone number. Jul 17 16:07:48 Speedevil Jul 17 16:08:11 Daviey: It does - what do you mean? Jul 17 16:08:18 Dave: at+cnum=? Jul 17 16:08:31 Speedevil, do you have a link to the resource for the usb/terminal issue? Jul 17 16:08:47 no. Jul 17 16:09:03 I think it was tracked down to a source of the issue for the terminal input keyboard being messed up (when connected/ing) Jul 17 16:09:10 :| Jul 17 16:11:19 heh, hilarious... mff crashed tango agan Jul 17 16:11:20 again Jul 17 16:12:15 lame Jul 17 16:14:22 hello Jul 17 16:15:26 * Dave boos Jul 17 16:15:26 when can I buy openmoko, being fairly sure that hardware doesn't change any more? 02v5? or should I wait some more? Jul 17 16:15:52 heh Jul 17 16:15:57 early adopters Jul 17 16:16:04 you can't be sure of anything like that. Jul 17 16:16:08 there's always a new version Jul 17 16:17:37 well... I thought "mass market" version will be pretty much locked on one hardware - was it a mistake? Jul 17 16:18:05 Sort-of. Jul 17 16:18:09 if you think that, why are you asking? ;-) Jul 17 16:18:09 viraptor...is that like a dinosaur that preys on emacsaurus? Jul 17 16:18:16 * Chocky laffs Jul 17 16:18:21 A) The graphics chip has turned out to be a horrible mistake. Jul 17 16:18:24 Hrm, that keyboard bug is rather annoying :[ Jul 17 16:18:29 Speedevil :( Jul 17 16:18:40 B) There is a hardware issue with the shipped phones with GPS. Jul 17 16:18:41 It's glamorific! Jul 17 16:18:48 glamtastic Jul 17 16:19:28 personally, I think the glamo will work out ok with the mplayer stuff, etc. not worth crying over. Does its most important stuff just fine. Jul 17 16:19:50 Chocky: yeah - it's just it's an extra socket that has turned out to be a wash. Jul 17 16:20:27 Chocky: probably adding $10 to the price, and quite a lot of dev time to beat it into shape, which may have delayed the hardware. Jul 17 16:20:30 ok... I'll lurk some more then - I'm ok with being early adopter and developing on a buggy system, but I wouldn't like to be left in the dark with abbandoned hardware :/ Jul 17 16:20:39 every hardware has issues. wait for the software to do best it can. Jul 17 16:20:48 Chocky: but of course - that wasn't known at the start. Jul 17 16:21:18 * Chocky has been around this tree many times with other projects Jul 17 16:22:48 Chocky: yes, all hardware has issues, it's just a bit annoying that a moderately important chip has turned out to possibly be a wash in terms of performance, and negatives for costs and dev time. Jul 17 16:22:56 aye. Jul 17 16:23:24 * Chocky knows, knows knows :-( but there are _always_ such things in hardware/software for every project :-| Jul 17 16:23:27 viraptor: abandoned hardware shouldn't be _that_ bad an issue - it's built from source. Jul 17 16:23:55 viraptor: I'd personally wait to buy one till the GPS status has been clarified. Jul 17 16:24:10 viraptor: it's easy to be paranoid about any hardware. but at least in this case, all the software is there, as Evil says Jul 17 16:24:30 SpeedEvil: NOW you tell me ;-) Jul 17 16:24:53 Speedevil, as of presently, it's still somewhat of a mystery, right? Jul 17 16:25:00 i'm waiting for more details about GPS, but basically: i've got a little bit of disposable income, so why not? Jul 17 16:25:05 GPS is currently affected by a problem when the SD is accessed - it seems to lose or find it very hard to obtain - lock on satellites. There is a patch to turn off the clock to SD when not using it, but accessing SD will still disturb GPS. There is a hardware fix, but how this can be applied to units in the field is unclear at the moment. Jul 17 16:25:16 anyway, with SD card removed, my GPS seems to work just dandy outside. tracked my cycle and train ride home :p Jul 17 16:25:26 If you can live with a partially functioning GPS, then why not. Jul 17 16:26:17 would it be possible to take a piece of tin foil (wrapped in scotch tape or something nonconductive) and make a shield around the SD card? Jul 17 16:26:23 Maybe. Jul 17 16:26:28 it needs to be made into a hat Jul 17 16:26:33 The exact problem hasn't been published. Jul 17 16:26:43 I was just going to use some foil FROM my hat Jul 17 16:26:54 good thinking Jul 17 16:26:55 It may be DIYable, or it may require you to have a soldering station, and the ability to do fine SMD rework. Jul 17 16:27:03 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r1dbd3a6b9799 10/src/illume_kbd.c: remove debug output Jul 17 16:27:03 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r0251bda95a27 10/ (3 files in 2 dirs): add a number and name editor for contacts Jul 17 16:27:29 * Chocky has such things. well, questionable skill, but I can probably do it. Jul 17 16:27:45 I have a big ass magnifier, but my eyesight for such things isn't brilliant Jul 17 16:28:01 Chocky: there are alternatives. Jul 17 16:28:04 why would anyone want an ass-magnifier Jul 17 16:28:07 ? Jul 17 16:28:20 Chocky: eat more, then you won't need ass-magnifying equipment. Jul 17 16:28:43 hmm... so open the box, plug it in and charge it, then what? Jul 17 16:29:28 so is 02v5 (and selling through webshop) planned sometime this year, or is it a big unknown so far? I cannot find any estimate on wiki :/ Jul 17 16:29:49 viraptor: it's been available Jul 17 16:29:53 viraptor: it's not ATM Jul 17 16:30:07 Thanks Speedbot Jul 17 16:31:39 no recommendations on software/stacks to upgrade to? Jul 17 16:31:41 cool... I hope UK gets a bigger package of those by september then :) Jul 17 16:35:21 anyone emails sales@openmoko.com recently? what's their response time like? Jul 17 16:35:29 s/emails/emailed Jul 17 16:40:52 doc|home: they generally reply at about 7pm our time :P Jul 17 16:41:02 in my experience Jul 17 16:41:11 doc|work: ^ Jul 17 16:41:42 mm time to head to work Jul 17 16:44:45 #openmoko-cdevel | See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS_Problems Jul 17 16:47:36 yay, moko arrived. Jul 17 16:47:41 :) Jul 17 16:48:53 Community_Updates says that bug #666 was fixable last year. Why are people still having problems, then? Or was that a different cause? Jul 17 16:51:53 kelvie: hmmm, I mailed them at 4-5pm yesterday, no response yet. Jul 17 16:53:06 uggh Jul 17 16:53:18 I keep my primary freerunner plugged in via usb next to my right hand mouse Jul 17 16:53:25 they're both the same size and black Jul 17 16:53:30 too many mice Jul 17 16:53:41 does your mouse have an LCD? Jul 17 16:53:48 so without glancing over and down I end up frequently moving the freerunner, and then can't figure out why the cursor isn't moving :D Jul 17 16:53:53 It's becoming quite irritating :P Jul 17 16:53:54 hah Jul 17 16:53:58 hum. Jul 17 16:54:01 I've done this several days now, hah Jul 17 16:54:09 that should tell you something Jul 17 16:54:15 put FR on the left Jul 17 16:54:17 Yeah Jul 17 16:54:24 No, make the freerunner dub as a mouse! Jul 17 16:54:24 duh Jul 17 16:54:26 :P Jul 17 16:54:27 Dave: I've taken to having my FR plugged into the AC (fast charge) and use pand to connect to my laptop Jul 17 16:54:41 why whouldn't it be a usb mouse? :P Jul 17 16:54:47 it just sits there doing nothing :D Jul 17 16:54:49 Dave: we need a camera built in so we can make it into an optical mouse Jul 17 16:54:58 either that or get the accelerometers to work Jul 17 16:55:17 accelerometer mouse would suck. Jul 17 16:55:31 it should be quite accurate Jul 17 16:55:38 should be. Jul 17 16:55:41 God I can't stand the people's "English" who write on the wiki. Jul 17 16:55:43 I want my mouse to accelerate Jul 17 16:55:54 Chocky, eww. Jul 17 16:55:58 camera mouse would suck :) Jul 17 16:56:02 Dave: I know, I fixed some stuff on that GPS page, but it's still horrific Jul 17 16:56:03 What's the consensus on preferred image? Jul 17 16:56:18 wiki is a bit of a cesspit right now Jul 17 16:58:07 so my messaging app keeps crashing. Anyone know how to fix that? Jul 17 16:59:17 find the bug Jul 17 16:59:58 hehe...been playing with the LEDs...based on this script: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/022051.html Jul 17 17:00:15 if you turn ON the blue AND orange LED in the power button, it turns a nice purple color Jul 17 17:00:21 freerunnin: the built in one? Jul 17 17:00:26 ory our own custom one? Jul 17 17:00:27 Xaos: sexy Jul 17 17:01:11 ok...how do I put a python script into the menu? Jul 17 17:02:12 doc|work, yes Jul 17 17:02:36 One down, 297 to go. Jul 17 17:03:18 freerunnin: I'm having the same issue, built in app breaks Jul 17 17:03:26 balrog-kun, fine then, I'll mount an ungodly looking trackball to it, better? :D Jul 17 17:03:34 freerunnin: yes, which? :") Jul 17 17:03:34 what's the "best" image? Jul 17 17:03:44 the built in one seems to suck Jul 17 17:03:59 rivalarrival: upgrade to current official one seems a bit crap :/ Jul 17 17:04:06 although I've only run it in basic mode Jul 17 17:04:20 xaos: and if you blink leds you get whatever color's in between? Jul 17 17:04:20 rivalarrival: I'm using the scaredycat (GTK) one currently and it seems ok...haven't tried the others Jul 17 17:04:35 doc|work: um, when I get a new text, the messaging app shows up for a second and then crashes Jul 17 17:04:55 Kheldar: haven't tried blinking them faster...I just turned both of them on simultaneously... Jul 17 17:05:11 freerunnin: yeah, I had the same thing happening last night :/ there's a way around, only the app is so unintuitive I've no idea how I got to it Jul 17 17:05:20 although, it would be fun to strobe them alternating (blue on/orange off then blue off/orange on) Jul 17 17:05:34 Xaos: disco mode! Jul 17 17:05:43 Hey! Jul 17 17:05:45 flashback to 1973! Jul 17 17:05:47 Yaye Jul 17 17:05:48 And a gold plated case! Jul 17 17:05:57 Hey, SpeedEvil! Jul 17 17:05:58 bling! Jul 17 17:05:58 ok...disco was later than that...but right decade at least Jul 17 17:05:59 The Disco Stu Freerunner! Jul 17 17:06:05 hah Jul 17 17:06:15 so, other image recommendations? Jul 17 17:06:20 aw, it's sitting at "Registering.." Jul 17 17:06:22 :D Jul 17 17:06:29 cjb: reseat the sim card Jul 17 17:06:36 it's kind of a crappy holder I think Jul 17 17:06:42 I do like the back of the case on the FR though...I just realized this morning on the drive in that it was anti-skid Jul 17 17:06:48 cjb: and make sure it's turned right-way-round. ;) Jul 17 17:06:48 ok. are there any photos of the correct orientation? Jul 17 17:06:59 pet it nicely, ask it politely Jul 17 17:07:04 doc|work: I'm thinking about switching to ASU, good idea? Jul 17 17:07:13 cjb: the shape is pressed in the metal holder bit Jul 17 17:07:23 freerunnin: no idea, haven't tried it myself Jul 17 17:07:38 What about qtopia? Jul 17 17:07:41 retracile: ah, ok Jul 17 17:07:42 bah Jul 17 17:07:43 cjb: the cut-off-corner should be under the battery, towards the GPS antenna. Jul 17 17:08:05 cjb: mind if I ask where you're from? Jul 17 17:08:31 doc|work: from England, living in Boston, MA. Jul 17 17:08:37 ah, ok, nevermind then :) Jul 17 17:09:25 anyone know how to restart the gsm modem? Jul 17 17:09:42 SpeedEvil: when it is seated, or when it's raised? Jul 17 17:10:02 cjb: when it's seated Jul 17 17:10:36 that doesn't seem possible, unless the contacts are supposed to face up. Jul 17 17:10:52 freerunnin: maybe it's one of the power button options? Jul 17 17:10:56 cjb: err - sorry Jul 17 17:11:09 away from the GPS antenna. Jul 17 17:11:12 My bad. Jul 17 17:11:13 cjb, nevermind, figured it out. Just running the libgsmd-tool shell Jul 17 17:11:53 okay. so, parallel to but not near to the gsm antenna when seated. Jul 17 17:12:24 Slip the SIM into the metal clip when the clip is raised. Jul 17 17:12:27 heh, that seems like the contacts will be over the micro sd slot, not the pins. Jul 17 17:12:34 * cjb is too stupid to use this phone, methinks. Jul 17 17:12:44 Then lower it, and push the clip towards the microSD to lock it Jul 17 17:12:57 what is the button device? Jul 17 17:13:03 anyone? Jul 17 17:13:04 i loved the instruction manual that came with mine Jul 17 17:13:05 Anyway - the contacts are indeed over teh pins - which are under the slot. Jul 17 17:13:12 Anyway - the contacts are indeed over teh pins - which are under the metal clip Jul 17 17:14:29 oh! I had the external GPS antenna slot confused with the internal something antenna slot. Makes sense now. Jul 17 17:15:10 that's the orientation I was using before, though. hope it works. Jul 17 17:15:13 is there a tutorial on how to boot the ASU? Jul 17 17:15:14 Sorry, I meant the phuysical antenna. Jul 17 17:15:18 The internal one. Jul 17 17:15:25 gah. Jul 17 17:15:26 which is a tthe top of the phone - away from the hole. Jul 17 17:15:52 * cjb wonders how hard it would be to have a photo of the correct orientation. :) Jul 17 17:16:07 cjb: IO think there's one in the wiki Jul 17 17:16:57 oh, here it is Jul 17 17:17:06 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:FR_SIM_SD_open.jpg Jul 17 17:17:27 I wouldn't describe that as "with the cut edge near the internal antenna". Jul 17 17:17:34 any tango users here? Jul 17 17:18:02 Anyone there knows how to properly debug a binary with gdb on the freerunner ? Jul 17 17:18:16 cjb: Ok, it was away from, not towards. Jul 17 17:18:21 tangogps? aye. Jul 17 17:18:57 cjb: I blame microsoft. They warped my brain! Jul 17 17:19:08 SpeedEvil: ah, that's right :) hmph, still registering. Jul 17 17:19:10 Hi all. Jul 17 17:19:23 cjb: you've locked the SIM slot? Jul 17 17:19:36 yup Jul 17 17:22:11 hm, anyone know if AT&T Gophone SIMs are expected to work? Jul 17 17:24:43 Register Jul 17 17:24:43 EVENT: Netreg searching for network Jul 17 17:24:43 EVENT: Netreg registration denied Jul 17 17:24:43 cme error: 32 Jul 17 17:24:46 EVENT: Signal Quality: 22 Jul 17 17:25:02 what does at+cnum=? show? Jul 17 17:25:32 STR=`at+cnum=?' Jul 17 17:25:32 RSTR=`OK' Jul 17 17:26:34 oh. cme error: 32 suggests that my SIM is locked, I guess? Jul 17 17:27:44 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rd8517d7afa4a 10/framework/ (config.py configparse.py controller.py): enhance config parser and fail with a clear error message if we can't claim one of the bus names Jul 17 17:27:45 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rf73f9ddb324c 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/ti_calypso/channel.py: Jul 17 17:27:45 freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: [TI CALYPSO]: reorder init messages, need to add callbacks for when auth status changed successfully and Jul 17 17:27:46 freesmartphone.org: registration status changed Jul 17 17:27:48 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r3a6381b5147c 10/framework/subsystems/odeviced/input.py: odeviced: allow specifying whether holding an input entity needs to be reported Jul 17 17:36:50 bah, looks like there's a known problem with AT&T SIMs Jul 17 17:37:00 the factory OM is 2007.2 right ? Jul 17 17:37:00 Still no one to tell me how to use gdb properly on the freerunner ? Jul 17 17:37:25 cjb: Yes, I had it...got a new SIM on the "approved" list and it seems to be working ok now Jul 17 17:37:31 at least it's registering Jul 17 17:37:59 Xaos: what kind of SIM? Jul 17 17:38:07 I guess I'd have to change my number? :/ Jul 17 17:38:13 cjb: the old or the new one? Jul 17 17:38:21 new Jul 17 17:38:34 cjb: no...I called AT&T and gave them the new SIM number and they set my account up to use the new one Jul 17 17:38:38 took 2 minutes Jul 17 17:38:49 hang on I'll get the number Jul 17 17:38:56 Xaos: ooh. where did you get the new SIM from? Jul 17 17:39:05 and, were you in a contract with them? I'm on pay as you go.. Jul 17 17:39:06 see :P~ Jul 17 17:39:15 why would you have to change your number? Jul 17 17:39:16 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r0426f8cc6d9c 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/ubx.py: ogpsd: Implement parsing of variable length messages Jul 17 17:39:31 I got some new (last summer) French SIM which is not working too, for info Jul 17 17:39:32 * DaveLab rolls his eyes Jul 17 17:39:38 DaveLab: if no AT&T SIMs work, how will I stay on AT&T? Jul 17 17:39:40 cjb: I'm on a month-to-month now...contract was up last year Jul 17 17:39:50 They do work. Jul 17 17:39:54 cjb: I'm on AT&T and my new SIM is working Jul 17 17:39:54 (for some people, anyway) :D Jul 17 17:39:59 cjb: go here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT Jul 17 17:40:02 oh. I just have to ask for a dufferent SIM? Jul 17 17:40:16 print it out and take it with you to the AT&T store Jul 17 17:40:28 make sure the new SIM is on the table at the bottom Jul 17 17:40:30 I have 2 questions : how do you display a "real' virtual keyboard instead of the phone one, and how do you connect to wifi, by cmdline ? Jul 17 17:40:52 AciD: Install the matchbox keyboard Jul 17 17:41:28 I see Jul 17 17:41:36 Xaos > to do that I should first got on the wifi, which is really hard with that ***** keybard Jul 17 17:41:41 :/ Jul 17 17:42:00 Whee, downloading hundreds of megabytes of map data \o/ Jul 17 17:42:09 AciD...can you get the USB networking working first? Jul 17 17:42:28 \o\ /o/ Jul 17 17:42:39 Yeah, clearly that would be ideal :p Jul 17 17:42:39 DaveLab: where from? Jul 17 17:42:39 Xaos > just the om to computer yes (ssh), but no access to internet through that computer Jul 17 17:42:50 retracile, various map repos :D Jul 17 17:42:56 I'm doing the whole buffet, at the moment :) Jul 17 17:42:59 AciD: then just ssh in and setup wifi Jul 17 17:43:11 AciD: are you running linux on your computer? if so, you can get it to route to the INternet for you Jul 17 17:43:16 The sucky part is not all of them are fast :| Jul 17 17:43:18 yes Jul 17 17:43:48 AciD: go here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking Jul 17 17:43:54 So while 700M of map tiles off one might take a few minutes, the others could take half an hour :\ Jul 17 17:43:59 Xaos > I followed the getting started wiki, but as I'm using networkmanager, I can't touch the /etc/network/interface file without losing my internet connection Jul 17 17:43:59 DaveLab: I haven't gotten around to the gps/maps, but do you have a starting point I can add to my TODO notes for when I get around to it? Jul 17 17:44:08 Sure! Jul 17 17:44:39 AciD: I'm on Kubuntu (Hardy) with NetworkManager...I've got it working great... Jul 17 17:44:47 is om factory using bash has the shell ? I would really like to use my .bashrc Jul 17 17:44:47 :) Jul 17 17:45:01 Xaos > that's interesting, how did you do that ? :) Jul 17 17:45:18 opkg install bash Jul 17 17:45:21 etc /etc/passwd Jul 17 17:45:46 AciD: here's the stanza from my /etc/network/interfaces (sorry for the IRC spam) Jul 17 17:45:48 auto usb0 Jul 17 17:45:48 iface usb0 inet static Jul 17 17:45:48 address 192.168.0.200 Jul 17 17:45:48 netmask 255.255.255.0 Jul 17 17:45:48 network 192.168.0.0 Jul 17 17:45:49 up iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -j MASQUERADE -s 192.168.0.0/24 & Jul 17 17:45:51 up echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward & Jul 17 17:45:52 yeah, first get wifi working to be able to update the thing Jul 17 17:45:53 up iptables -P FORWARD ACCEPT & Jul 17 17:45:55 down iptables -D POSTROUTING -t nat -j MASQUERADE -s 192.168.0.0/24 & Jul 17 17:46:16 AciD: put that in your interfaces file (it won't mess up your networkmanager) Jul 17 17:46:17 gah Jul 17 17:46:22 Xaos, this isn't xterm... Jul 17 17:46:24 hum Jul 17 17:46:29 :D Jul 17 17:46:30 * Chocky slaps. Jul 17 17:46:31 I know...I apologized first Jul 17 17:46:32 Xaos: use a pastebot :p Jul 17 17:46:39 speedbot Jul 17 17:47:15 sorry...been about 12 years since I was active on IRC...don't have any bots at all Jul 17 17:47:30 :D Jul 17 17:47:36 heh, that's nearly as long as I've been using IRC ;p Jul 17 17:47:50 there were plenty of bots 12 years ago Jul 17 17:47:54 remember eggdrop? Jul 17 17:47:57 I was waiting for someone to say, that's as long as I've been alive! Jul 17 17:48:03 * Chocky laffs Jul 17 17:48:16 Chocky, it's still widely used, today :p Jul 17 17:48:20 botnets Jul 17 17:48:22 good times... Jul 17 17:48:22 and still sucks Jul 17 17:48:24 huhu Jul 17 17:48:39 * Chocky so veteran Jul 17 17:48:41 yeah...I remember eggdrop...just don't have anything setup currently (or know what's out there anymore) Jul 17 17:48:43 DaveLab: got a starting-point link? :) Jul 17 17:48:54 Xaos > do you by any chance have an ip like 192.168.0.x on the computer linked to the FR ? Jul 17 17:48:56 yeah yeah sorry Jul 17 17:49:08 AciD: no...I'm on a different subnet... Jul 17 17:49:17 I actually wrote up my own google project/doc page on that stuff a little while back, but I just realized it's not public :p Jul 17 17:49:20 I hope this will work Jul 17 17:49:26 otherwise tangogps.org is great starting place :p Jul 17 17:49:40 AciD: what is your subnet for normal usage on your computer? Jul 17 17:49:48 I'll try to publicize my documentation somehow as well, whether it be the wiki or something else. Jul 17 17:49:57 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r8bceacbcfaab 10/ (4 files in 4 dirs): odeviced: (input) read button/switches configuration from file, no longer hardcoding buttons for the specific device Jul 17 17:50:03 The wiki is already highly cluttered, and it's search functionality seems craptastic. Jul 17 17:50:08 DaveLab: thanks Jul 17 17:50:14 brb...gotta go heat up my lunch Jul 17 17:50:19 someone needs to take a machete to the wiki Jul 17 17:50:30 someone.... else? Jul 17 17:50:53 sure Jul 17 17:50:55 yes. I'd love to do it, but I'm still a noob to all the bits. don't trust myself at this point. Jul 17 17:51:35 What exactly are you referring to, Chocky? Jul 17 17:52:28 Xaos > hum hum, still not working with that same cfg, but I'm on a 192.168.0.x ip.. Jul 17 17:52:54 if you are using Jabber, you may visit openmoko@conference.jabber.org Jul 17 17:52:59 DaveLab: Try this custom search engine. Even is a Firefox plugin for it: http://aiurlano.netsons.org/OpenMoko/ Jul 17 17:53:56 Xaos > whoa, it's weird, `ifup usb0` output those errors : Jul 17 17:54:01 .: 44: Can't open /usr/share/sendmail/dynamic Jul 17 17:54:02 run-parts: /etc/network/if-up.d/sendmail exited with return code 2 Jul 17 17:54:38 (I have no sendmail package installed on my comp) Jul 17 17:54:51 (I mean, I only have some 'rc' ones) Jul 17 17:55:31 Hello, :-) Jul 17 17:56:04 i want to install navit on my freerunner with opkg but i can't Package speech-dispatcher md5sum mismatch. Jul 17 17:56:19 Have anyone a way without compile ? Jul 17 17:56:30 you don't tell us the _exact_ commands Jul 17 17:56:34 can't mind reaqd Jul 17 17:58:54 Does anyone have the MFF repo url handy? Jul 17 18:00:26 opkg install navit Jul 17 18:00:36 and you did opkg update first? Jul 17 18:00:43 yes Jul 17 18:01:02 what is the full list of errors? Jul 17 18:01:08 maybe my opkg.conf is brocken ? Jul 17 18:01:09 hmm? Jul 17 18:01:15 it's not that I have an answer, but you need to explain your question properly Jul 17 18:01:40 * Package speech-dispatcher md5sum mismatch. Either the opkg or the package index are corrupt. Try 'opkg update'. Jul 17 18:03:13 anyone know why my messages app keeps crashing? Jul 17 18:03:53 there's an entry in trac, but i'm not sure how to implement the fix Jul 17 18:04:16 http://docs.openmoko.org/track/changeset/1612 Jul 17 18:05:47 fuggin' Jul 17 18:05:58 Anyone used mff yet on tango? Jul 17 18:06:34 NSA Jul 17 18:06:46 AciD: sorry...back now...if you're already on a 192.168.0.x subnet, then this won't work easily... Jul 17 18:07:05 hi i want to know how i can save the alsamixer settings Jul 17 18:07:09 AciD: can you change your subnet? Do you have control of that network(wireless router)? Jul 17 18:07:21 newb: alsactl store -f Jul 17 18:08:26 mmontour: what filename? Jul 17 18:08:27 anyone have any luck with the att 7300g SIM? Jul 17 18:08:35 can u b more specific? Jul 17 18:08:38 also Jul 17 18:08:57 why is my voice so low on the freerunner? Jul 17 18:09:01 ppl just can't hear me :( Jul 17 18:09:14 Depends where you want to store it. If you want to overwrite one of the existing profiles, it will be /usr/share/openmoko/scenarios/... Jul 17 18:09:18 newb: I got the same issue...haven't delved into alsamixer yet though Jul 17 18:09:45 newb: you can turn it up in alsamixer Jul 17 18:09:49 newb: sorry? Can you say that again, please? Jul 17 18:10:01 Stroller: LOL Jul 17 18:10:08 freerunnin: I have a "71234G" SIM that doesn't work. Jul 17 18:10:38 cjb, that's no good. Jul 17 18:10:44 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Freerunner_Hardware_Issues#Poor_Audio_Quality Jul 17 18:10:52 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PGX3bRTr-A Jul 17 18:10:55 anyone hear any news about why exactly some SIMS don't work? Jul 17 18:11:02 mine works infrequently Jul 17 18:11:42 nope Jul 17 18:11:57 some people seem to be thinking it's pin alignments Jul 17 18:12:13 why would that happen? Aren't the pin alignments standard? Jul 17 18:12:14 so guess Jul 17 18:12:29 Xaos: it's supposed to be a PHONE! Jul 17 18:12:37 first we need to b able to make calls Jul 17 18:13:04 darn Jul 17 18:13:07 knit Jul 17 18:13:11 newb: I know...I'm working on getting mine to act that way too Jul 17 18:13:12 :p Jul 17 18:13:17 Stop being picky, newb Jul 17 18:13:29 It's a phone? Jul 17 18:13:35 really? Jul 17 18:13:37 I CAN make calls on mine...but the mic volume is low and it seems to want to re-register on the network periodically Jul 17 18:13:42 * Stroller thought it was a likkle PC Jul 17 18:13:51 * Chocky too :o Jul 17 18:13:54 shower radio, anyone? Jul 17 18:13:54 Xaos: i'm having no network issues Jul 17 18:13:59 :D Jul 17 18:14:02 Xaos: but i would really like to place calls. Jul 17 18:14:07 actually it's pretty terrible at that, too Jul 17 18:14:09 Xaos: have u got ur GPS to work? Jul 17 18:14:13 gets wet? Jul 17 18:14:15 whats the issue exactly with the GPS? Jul 17 18:14:28 I just finished writing up that newb Jul 17 18:14:28 so demanding! Jul 17 18:14:28 newb: seems to...haven't really stressed it out yet though Jul 17 18:14:30 When you're making PCs really likkle and Linux-compatible, you can't be surprised if small things like the microphone don't work first time Jul 17 18:14:35 only had my FR for 2 days Jul 17 18:14:37 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_GPS_Problems Jul 17 18:14:55 Stroller: this is the GTA02 so it's the SECOND time ;-) Jul 17 18:14:59 Hey guys! So the SIM cards marked 71234G are not up to spec (admitted by AT&T employee) The current SIMs they use are 71234O, and they work in Qtopia at least. Jul 17 18:15:04 Stroller: it's like saying when u make a car, don't be surprised if the engine doesn't work lol Jul 17 18:15:08 rockstar: Thanks! Jul 17 18:15:16 * Chocky stabs users of "lol" Jul 17 18:15:16 Wow, rockstar, that's rather impressive. Jul 17 18:15:18 Stroller: really we need to get the phone working perfectly first Jul 17 18:15:26 Stroller: then it's going to be a serious product. Jul 17 18:15:32 newb: stop demanding, thanks. Jul 17 18:15:33 You got a wireless provider "employee" who knew shit! Jul 17 18:15:35 :o Jul 17 18:15:43 Chocky: i'm not demading Jul 17 18:15:55 yep, you are. everyone is blatantly aware of what needs to be done. Jul 17 18:16:00 Yea, he's apparently a college student working on his CS degree. Jul 17 18:16:01 Chocky: i'm offering a suggestion and willing to sort this out Jul 17 18:16:02 newb, are you planning on helping the development somehow? Jul 17 18:16:02 repeating it over and over doesn't help Jul 17 18:16:15 rockstar, ah, well that explains it :P Jul 17 18:16:17 He knew what I held in my hands when I walked in the store. Jul 17 18:16:19 he's not REALLY an employee Jul 17 18:16:24 :) Jul 17 18:16:26 :D Jul 17 18:16:28 rockstar: really, nice. Jul 17 18:16:28 DaveLab: i plan on making a really funky contact list Jul 17 18:16:29 Lucky you Jul 17 18:16:34 and a nice dialer Jul 17 18:16:37 newb: ... Jul 17 18:16:42 which doesn't take ages to load Jul 17 18:16:52 He was asking all sorts of questions about it. Apparently there was an internal recall of the 71234G SIMs Jul 17 18:16:57 newb: welcome to the club Jul 17 18:16:59 Okay so essentially back you ass up, and wait to open your openmoko aftermarket store :P Jul 17 18:17:03 rockstar: fab. new buddy. Jul 17 18:17:13 i'm surprised considering all the hype surrounding this device which has me in awe, it cannot perform basic functionality the end user wants Jul 17 18:17:17 ok...I hate to add to the hell that the wiki has become, but do we need a new page that lists what needs to be done to get the Neo to actually BE a phone? Jul 17 18:17:18 rockstar :o Jul 17 18:17:18 Yea, I invited him to the local LUG meetings Jul 17 18:17:23 anyone else having problems with the messaging app? Jul 17 18:17:25 we have to be humble and remember what does the end user want Jul 17 18:17:27 and of course this wasn't publicized much :P Jul 17 18:17:28 otherwise Jul 17 18:17:32 hah! Jul 17 18:17:39 newb: humble is not lecturing. Jul 17 18:17:41 Xaos: that's actually a pretty good idea Jul 17 18:17:42 newb: no one here really cares Jul 17 18:17:46 no matter how technically advanced a product we make it won't be used Jul 17 18:17:46 End users are pussies :) Jul 17 18:17:49 This isn't a marketable product. Jul 17 18:17:51 enough already Jul 17 18:17:53 rockstar, that too! Jul 17 18:17:54 Stroller: OK...I'll set something up Jul 17 18:17:55 :D Jul 17 18:17:57 rockstar: they are the people who use it Jul 17 18:18:00 Xaos: one page for each image (FSO< ASU, 2007.2 &c) Jul 17 18:18:08 newb, like yourself? :) Jul 17 18:18:20 rockstar: not everyone is gifted to have a highly developed intellect Jul 17 18:18:34 DaveLab: i would like to consider myself to be an end user too Jul 17 18:18:38 newb, i think rockstar is joking Jul 17 18:18:51 * rockstar is joking Jul 17 18:18:56 ha Jul 17 18:18:57 rockstar: :) Jul 17 18:19:04 newb: I'm sorry. I was taking the piss in my early replies to you. I shouldn't have wound you up. Jul 17 18:19:20 :D Jul 17 18:19:30 Stroller: anyways i will put up a post on my blog as to what plans i have for the contact list Jul 17 18:19:35 it's a nice concept Jul 17 18:19:39 wind-up users/ Jul 17 18:19:43 gah Jul 17 18:19:47 * DaveLab motions to Chocky Jul 17 18:19:52 * Chocky h5s Jul 17 18:19:55 ok, off to the AT&T store, I think Jul 17 18:20:02 * newb loves the device it's real cute Jul 17 18:20:22 this channel is really growing Jul 17 18:20:25 newb: the qtopia framebuffer build are very quick. Much faster than any x11 build I have tried. You should test it if you have not already. Jul 17 18:20:28 Dave: dammit, stop seeing through my facade Jul 17 18:20:31 newb: There's some stuff in Amarok 2 that i think it'd be good for you to take a look at for management of contacts in the contact list :) Jul 17 18:20:51 leinir: i was thinking of a much better way to search contacts Jul 17 18:21:08 Searching, right - i'm thinking management :) Jul 17 18:21:15 leinir: someone like me knows nearly 1000 people and it's impossible for me to remember everyone by their right name. Jul 17 18:21:24 Are we talking filtering, or something else? Jul 17 18:21:32 sometimes i remember their last name or some attribute about them Jul 17 18:21:40 That's 'cause you're so popliar, newb ! Jul 17 18:21:41 i would like to search them based on that Jul 17 18:22:07 Stroller: well.....! i meet lot of people Jul 17 18:22:21 newb: I just put "that fat bird" in the nickname field of the addressbook Jul 17 18:22:49 Stroller: yea i would like to be able to actually look up someone by that Jul 17 18:22:58 Stroller: haha. Never let anyone get to your contact list then =) Jul 17 18:23:02 OK...here's where we start tracking our wishlist for Telephony related desires/issues: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Telephony Jul 17 18:23:18 how do I make the dfu-util executable? Jul 17 18:23:33 Ko_deZ: yeah, it's embarassing when my Mac automagically adds the addressee name to emails Jul 17 18:23:37 chmod +x Jul 17 18:23:37 freerunnin: chmod +x Jul 17 18:23:48 oh yeah Jul 17 18:24:50 newb: Have a look at akonadi when you start working on this... methinks it might be something that could potentially help with :) (speaking the technical side of things) Jul 17 18:25:09 It's leinir! Jul 17 18:26:39 i would like to add attributes like distance of people to the address book....or distance of other openmoko users anyway Jul 17 18:26:44 leinir: ok... Jul 17 18:27:05 :D Jul 17 18:27:18 Dave is DaveLab? Jul 17 18:27:23 zedstar: I was just thinking that Jul 17 18:27:32 it's a RoboticDave, assembled in a Lab Jul 17 18:27:33 * Railer waiting for UPS! Jul 17 18:27:39 Stroller: Hahaha. That can cause some headaches, and angry friends =) Jul 17 18:27:51 zedstar: it would be cool if contacts were arranged in concentric rings, based on distance & direction Jul 17 18:27:58 zedstar: no practical, but cool Jul 17 18:28:08 concentric _3D_ spheres Jul 17 18:28:14 glamotastic Jul 17 18:28:36 stroller yeh....i like this kinda thing Jul 17 18:28:49 newb: It's a PIM storage and retrieval system, it might very well fit what you're trying to do rather well :) Jul 17 18:29:03 robitic Daveis quite] Jul 17 18:29:10 quiet today Jul 17 18:29:18 leinir: i already have written something :) Jul 17 18:29:22 what is the situation with address books now..... qtopia uses sqlite 2007.2 uses EDS? which u gonna use? Jul 17 18:29:33 leinir: send me an e-mail address and i'll send u an ogg video of what it does Jul 17 18:29:49 Railer! Jul 17 18:29:54 Affirmative! Jul 17 18:30:03 newb: admin@leinir.dk :) (i don't care 'bout spambots, that address is up publicly so many places it makes no difference anyway ;) ) Jul 17 18:30:24 Dave's new name Bender Jul 17 18:30:38 * DaveLab rolls his eyes skeptically Jul 17 18:30:49 cc me, then newb stroller@stellar.eclipse.co.uk Jul 17 18:30:57 ups delivering phone TODAY! Jul 17 18:31:02 ZOMG!? Jul 17 18:31:10 You hope, anyway. :p Jul 17 18:31:20 is there a dbus interface to contacts in qtopia or need to query with sql? Jul 17 18:31:26 well it says it's out on the truck Jul 17 18:31:28 * DaveLab emails leinir his freerunner porn Jul 17 18:31:38 Railer, hope it didn't get jacked :D Jul 17 18:31:40 leinir Stroller it's just a search concept. it can be used for anything technically Jul 17 18:31:59 newb: would you care to help me add to the content on the following wiki page? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Telephony Jul 17 18:32:11 or the driver is a dog fu..er Jul 17 18:32:15 Xaos: ok i'm looking at it Jul 17 18:32:17 :P Jul 17 18:32:22 newb: Of course, i know what a mockup is (high or low fidelity ;) ) Jul 17 18:32:26 Xaos: last time it said PERMISSION denied Jul 17 18:32:31 DENIED Jul 17 18:32:47 newb: well, if you've written something then I have more respect for you than I did upon initial piss-taking. So let's see the concept. Jul 17 18:33:02 huh? you can't see the wiki page? Jul 17 18:33:18 Stroller: i have respect for u irrespective of what u do :) Jul 17 18:34:06 newb: You're getting permission denied on the wiki page? Jul 17 18:34:19 Xaos: yes Jul 17 18:34:23 likely for editing Jul 17 18:34:41 try again Jul 17 18:34:43 Stroller, please attempt to control any further bladder issues. Jul 17 18:34:54 You will not be warned again. Jul 17 18:35:08 yes, I'm all out of diapers Jul 17 18:35:11 Xaos: that page loads Jul 17 18:35:24 Stroller: leinir: check ur mail it's called LiteSpeed91 demo Jul 17 18:35:34 Got it :) Jul 17 18:36:04 Well, newb, there are lots of people with "great ideas" for Openmoko who don't do anything about it. Just spout the same "great ideas" that lots of people already thought of, but never come up with any code. And likewise many people who bitch about the status of Openmoo & the Freerunner, without appreciation of the work that's already gone into it. Jul 17 18:36:27 create a project on projects.openmoko.org Jul 17 18:36:33 OpenMoo....the first opensource cow Jul 17 18:36:43 lol Jul 17 18:36:45 m0000! Jul 17 18:36:50 Stroller: trust me i appreciate the phone :) Jul 17 18:37:02 MichaelShiloh: Are there docs on how to debug C apps on the phone? Jul 17 18:37:05 Xaos: i can't add anything to the wiki Jul 17 18:37:10 MichaelShiloh: i.e. with gdb? We get weird failures. Jul 17 18:37:13 are you logged in? Jul 17 18:37:16 newb: Sign up Jul 17 18:37:22 ok Jul 17 18:37:28 loggin in Jul 17 18:37:29 newb: Right, before you work too much more... do you know what Nepomuk is? :) Jul 17 18:37:38 leinir: no Jul 17 18:37:43 I do! Jul 17 18:37:47 Lemme just grab you a link, then... Jul 17 18:37:49 it's Kumopen backwords Jul 17 18:38:05 http://nepomuk.semanticdesktop.org/ Jul 17 18:38:10 opensource pr0n Jul 17 18:38:13 get it? Jul 17 18:38:24 bovinial branch, anyone? ;) Jul 17 18:38:51 Why haven't chinese FreeRunners clones showed up ? Jul 17 18:38:51 mmontour: Are there docs on how to debug C apps on the phone? Jul 17 18:38:52 wurp, yeah I've gotten mixed results in that department :) Jul 17 18:38:55 yet* Jul 17 18:39:06 DaveLab: mixed would be better than what we're getting Jul 17 18:39:10 Bah... why's that page wanting me to log in :P Jul 17 18:39:18 cvirus, because they *are* of chinese manufacture? Jul 17 18:39:20 DaveLab: Which is no debug info at all Jul 17 18:39:22 that and no one wants them Jul 17 18:39:23 leinir: no idea Jul 17 18:39:30 newb: This one in stead --> http://nepomuk.semanticdesktop.org/xwiki/bin/Main1/ Jul 17 18:39:33 leinir: u saw my demo is it? Jul 17 18:39:37 wurp2, oh, that's terrible in that case :P Jul 17 18:39:52 DaveLab: more than terrible Jul 17 18:39:56 are you just straight up using arm gdb? Jul 17 18:40:00 haha Jul 17 18:40:01 DaveLab: yep Jul 17 18:40:06 DaveLab: On the neo Jul 17 18:40:07 It's just driving me mad Jul 17 18:40:12 I've met guys who make open source programs .... I'll pass on the opensource porn thanks Jul 17 18:40:14 okay, right Jul 17 18:40:16 Do anyone know something about the HW fix for the GPS+sd? Jul 17 18:40:23 Railer :p Jul 17 18:40:24 newb: Yeah, it looks like searching and ordering by semantic networks - which is exactly what this multi-million euro project is aimed at doing :) Jul 17 18:40:33 fuzzdk: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_GPS_Problems Jul 17 18:40:42 DaveLab: gdb is not finding the debug app, even though it's in the appropriate .debug directory Jul 17 18:40:51 what the fuck? o_O Jul 17 18:41:02 leinir: well.. this project is certainly interesting Jul 17 18:41:03 * DaveLab checks out his gdb phone Jul 17 18:41:12 DaveLab: And when you try to run the app w/ debug info embedded, it flakes out with "word unexpected, expected )" or something similar Jul 17 18:41:36 leinir: hopefully Openmoko UI's and s/w go in that direction Jul 17 18:41:38 DaveLab: Which sounds to me as if the debug exe is corrupt, but it was sent over in the same ipk as the regular exe, so I don't see how that could be Jul 17 18:41:47 /usr/bin/.debug/ophonekitd: line 1: syntax error: word unexpected (expecting ")") Jul 17 18:41:53 The error we're talking about. Jul 17 18:42:02 OHHHh Jul 17 18:42:03 newb: It's the library system behind KDE 4's semantic search system :) Jul 17 18:42:11 leinir, bleh :p Jul 17 18:42:16 semantic shmantic :p Jul 17 18:42:24 leinir: really? i don't use KDE 4 so i haven't checked it out yet Jul 17 18:42:45 oh yeah I have to throw my om porn on this phone Jul 17 18:43:09 newb: It's really quite nifty stuff :) There's way more power in it than what's being used in kde4 at the moment, really - it's a total storage system for semantic information :) Jul 17 18:43:27 SpeedEvil: Do you know if there are docs on how to debug C apps on the phone? Jul 17 18:43:31 leinir, does it work on the phone? Jul 17 18:43:31 I was just running Jul 17 18:43:57 leinir: trying to build something similar Jul 17 18:44:00 DaveLab: Ehrm... that would be the idea, it's just not been ported yet :) Jul 17 18:44:06 bah Jul 17 18:44:09 leinir: but with a lighter code base Jul 17 18:44:13 DaveLab: Have you in fact successfully run gdb on the phone to debug a C app, with line number info & local var names, etc? Jul 17 18:44:21 I was just running 'make openmoko-devel-image', but got to an error on the edje package. How can I easily recompile just that package? Jul 17 18:44:21 leinir: and more targetted for mobile devices Jul 17 18:44:31 newb: That's the thing - stand on the shouldrs of these giants, but research methods of storage and query with less resource heaviness :) Jul 17 18:45:02 wurp2|work: Isn't there a gdb ipk already? Jul 17 18:45:17 wurp, sorry I was running it right now :) Jul 17 18:45:18 to test Jul 17 18:45:29 I'm running it on a C program I compiled on the phone Jul 17 18:45:36 It's running fine so far (gdb, that is) Jul 17 18:45:38 CM: We have gdb on the phone Jul 17 18:45:49 CM: But it won't recognize our debug file Jul 17 18:45:49 DaveLab: we're talking about a program delived as an ipk Jul 17 18:45:57 Ah, ok :/ Jul 17 18:46:05 CM: The file shows the right type when we run 'file' on it on the host machine Jul 17 18:46:30 can you save gps logs from agpstest? Jul 17 18:46:33 Xaos: i added my inputs to that page Jul 17 18:47:03 oh Jul 17 18:47:10 newb: cool...thanks Jul 17 18:47:12 DaveLab: what is worrying me Jul 17 18:47:17 /usr/bin/.debug/ophonekitd: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.14, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped Jul 17 18:47:21 And if I try to launch it Jul 17 18:47:25 I have an error (pasted before) Jul 17 18:47:35 Xaos: u can mail me if u want me to write up some stuff. i have lot of free time to explore and create documentation. Jul 17 18:47:41 oh, ick Jul 17 18:47:46 yeah, that would concern me :P Jul 17 18:47:53 Yeah, that would Jul 17 18:47:58 i'm trying to get the qtopia image on my SD card, the wiki says go to "developer root filesystem" but I don't see the opt/qtopia that the wiki mentions Jul 17 18:48:04 especially since it sounds strange Jul 17 18:48:23 like if I were familiar with the source it might be a simple fix, after tracking it down :) Jul 17 18:48:32 newb: what was the email addy? Jul 17 18:48:36 it's not a source problem DaveLab Jul 17 18:48:42 The software launches normally with the non debug version Jul 17 18:48:49 oh OH Jul 17 18:48:50 I get it :P Jul 17 18:49:12 When I launch it I have a beautiful : /usr/bin/.debug/ophonekitd: line 1: syntax error: word unexpected (expecting ")") Jul 17 18:49:13 see private messg Jul 17 18:49:20 Xaos: see priv msg Jul 17 18:49:23 yeah, lovely -_- Jul 17 18:49:43 newb: got it Jul 17 18:50:10 Ainulindale: that's because this is Linux...you shouldn't be running Word on it Jul 17 18:50:26 ;-) Jul 17 18:50:29 I got some undefined references to some libcurl stuff in one of the packages, and would like to recompile just that package to save time until problem is fixed. How can I recompile a single package? Jul 17 18:50:30 you shouldn't be running Word anywhere. Jul 17 18:50:36 LOL Jul 17 18:50:41 not lol. very serious. Jul 17 18:50:49 Stroller: did u see my demo? Jul 17 18:51:02 Stroller: would u know of any apps using the accelerometers on the GTA02? Jul 17 18:52:18 :P Jul 17 18:52:24 anyone using MS Word is encouraging closed standards Jul 17 18:52:42 and should be burned. Jul 17 18:53:10 newb: looks good & very fast Jul 17 18:53:28 newb: I would just say that "don't all address books have search functions?" Jul 17 18:53:37 Chocky: are there open replacements that will read the newest MS formats? Jul 17 18:53:47 Stroller: not when u enter partial patterns Jul 17 18:53:50 yes, ODF Jul 17 18:53:52 no, Jul 17 18:53:56 no, there aren't Jul 17 18:54:02 or the older ones either Jul 17 18:54:04 Stroller: not on most of the phones out there Jul 17 18:54:07 newb: surely all you need to do is add "comments" or "tags" to an existing address book and ensure that they're searched as well as the name Jul 17 18:54:16 On http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS_Problems it sounds like the HW fix would be possible to do for a user, while it sounds more negative on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_GPS_Problems. Jul 17 18:54:23 Chocky: OO.o reads the older formats... Jul 17 18:54:24 newb: really? it does on my Sony Ericcson P990i Jul 17 18:54:28 ....no it doesn't Jul 17 18:54:30 not completely Jul 17 18:54:37 Stroller: haven't used Sony Ericcson Jul 17 18:54:43 Stroller: can say for Nokia Jul 17 18:54:46 it's impossible to do so. Jul 17 18:54:52 alright, fair enough Jul 17 18:54:55 newb: well, maybe it's not so good on the Sony E, actually. IIRC my Windows Mobile was better Jul 17 18:55:00 newb: check out the changes I made to the http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner#Adjusting_the_Volume and see if that answers your volume questions Jul 17 18:55:21 fuzzdk: For by far the majority of people, the software fix will be enough - but the hardware fix they are investigating is, last i heard, something they want users to be able to do :) Jul 17 18:55:22 how do I run a .c patch from trac? Jul 17 18:55:32 Stroller: see it carefully. It's a full text search that's taking place Jul 17 18:55:42 (last i heard being earlier today :) ) Jul 17 18:55:51 Stroller: not many DBs have a full text search MySQL has it from v5 Jul 17 18:55:51 YO Jul 17 18:55:58 MSSQL doesnt have it yet Jul 17 18:55:59 does anyone happen to know where the wallpaper is located? (and how I can change it from the default?) Jul 17 18:56:06 Oracle has it from v9 Jul 17 18:56:33 Stroller: i'm not using any SQL DB for this. it's plain B trees doing the job Jul 17 18:56:43 newb: I'm pretty sure my Windows Mobile phone did that. And my Mac certainly does. ;) Jul 17 18:57:00 Stroller: u mean the Searchlight app? possible. Jul 17 18:57:13 newb: Spotlight, yes Jul 17 18:57:38 Stroller: that's a brilliant app. Jul 17 18:58:00 Stroller: no it's not there in Windows Mobile. I have a HTC phone it certainly can't do this Jul 17 18:58:12 Stroller: Full Text search is a different ball game Jul 17 18:58:21 Yasumoto: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Today/2007.2 Jul 17 18:58:22 newb: I'm not putting you down. Surely many applications are not that great. Addressbooks included. It doesn't make me think "wow! that's different, though" Jul 17 18:58:22 it's set in gconf Jul 17 18:58:28 newb: which htc do you have? Jul 17 18:58:38 dcordes: Touch Jul 17 18:58:55 see "change wallpaper image" in the "Adjust UI components at runtime"D section Jul 17 18:59:11 urgh Jul 17 18:59:12 Elleo: ohh, cool Jul 17 18:59:14 thanks a bunch :) Jul 17 18:59:29 Xaos: am i supposed to save the alsa configs to all the files? Jul 17 18:59:34 newb: what do you mean by "full text search"? I'm pretty sure that on my HTC you'd type "B" and it would filter contacts with "B" in either their first or last name. All you're doing, then, is adding the "tags" or "comments" to the search criteria Jul 17 18:59:48 wurp2: i just did a step through a hello world program using gdb worked fine Jul 17 19:00:06 no problem Jul 17 19:00:23 wurp2|work: I don't know of any specific docs for debugging C apps on the Neo. But don't try to run the files in the .debug dirs - AFAIK they are just there to provide debugging symbols for gdb. Point gdb at the main app and it should find the symbols automatically Jul 17 19:00:37 Stroller: Full Text Search means u can type in any set of words and it will find u the best possible match. not a direct pattern match. Something like what Google does Jul 17 19:00:38 what can I do to fix undefined reference to curl_xxxx@CURL_GNUTLS_3 ? I have libcurl-gnutls3 installed. Jul 17 19:00:39 mmontour: Yeah, except it didn't :-( Jul 17 19:00:41 newb: no...save to the one that matches the profile you want...I'm not sure, but I think they map to various speakers being on or off (headset, handset, speakerphone, etc) Jul 17 19:00:59 ok, so I think i'm going to reflash OM2007.2, should I do the wiki's instructions? They are for gta01 and I have gta02 Jul 17 19:01:07 Xaos: confusing.. need to see if there are any docs Jul 17 19:01:07 wurp2|work: do you also have the -dbg packages for the libraries that the program is using? Jul 17 19:01:14 mmontour: I thought both were runnable - the debug one looks exactly like the other one to 'file', except that it has symbols Jul 17 19:01:16 leinir: thanks. I think I'll not cancel my order then - I simply can't wait no more :) Jul 17 19:01:17 Xaos: in the meantime Jul 17 19:01:20 i shall load Qtopia Jul 17 19:01:22 mmontour: Hrm, good question Jul 17 19:01:23 newb: where we're going...we don't need Docs Jul 17 19:01:24 ;-) Jul 17 19:01:38 fuzzdk: Et rigtigt godt valg ;) Jul 17 19:01:41 newb: so if I type "mom" it will find "mum", too? Or if I misspell "mother" as "mothre"? Jul 17 19:02:06 newb: that's htc elf with omap850, right Jul 17 19:02:26 Stroller: in it's present form this code cannot do synonyms and homonyms but i do plan to include in the near future. Jul 17 19:02:33 Stroller what this does at present is Jul 17 19:03:15 Stroller: suppose you were looking for a Garcia's Famous Pizza but u typed in Garcia Pizza the application would return the best matched result ie. Garcia's Famous Pizza Jul 17 19:03:25 :D Jul 17 19:03:40 newb: ah! ok. I see Jul 17 19:04:06 newb: that's cool & useful Jul 17 19:04:06 pesky danes Jul 17 19:04:16 Stroller: yes on a phone it is Jul 17 19:04:23 newb: these qtopia images? http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=6 Jul 17 19:04:43 newb: to me, as a dumb end-user that doesn't seem revolutionary, only evolutionary. But I can see that it must make a big difference to the coding Jul 17 19:05:02 Xaos: got them already. Flashing the phone as we speak i want to see how it is. would be interested in getting Enlightenment images also Jul 17 19:05:19 Stroller: yes true. Jul 17 19:06:10 Stroller: users expect the computer to have a more natural interface. In India there are many people who find a computer intimidating with a keyboard and a mouse. a device like Openmoko can really be an enabler here. Jul 17 19:06:22 sorry a device like Neo i meant Jul 17 19:07:17 Stroller: you will be surprised how many people own phones here. every month we have nearly 2 million new users! Jul 17 19:07:42 It's fuzzy matching, basically... but when you start mixing metadata into it, well... :) Jul 17 19:07:56 leinir: yes... correct Jul 17 19:08:05 newb: yes. It would probably make a big difference to the likes of my mother Jul 17 19:08:32 Stroller: whole lot of people. Jul 17 19:08:39 Stroller: When your mum's able to search her list of contacts, and find the one named "Stroller Mumma's Boy" by searching for "son", well... :) Jul 17 19:08:52 phones could defiinitely use some decent searching now people will be storing loads more on them Jul 17 19:09:26 the iphone didnt even have searchable contacts until recently i believe Jul 17 19:10:16 if we can get a cut and paste mechanism in, we'll have really scored one over the iPhone Jul 17 19:10:17 slocate :-p Jul 17 19:10:24 i was quite astonished to find that Qtopia doesn't have that, really Jul 17 19:10:26 grep Jul 17 19:10:48 right Jul 17 19:10:53 it's annoying Jul 17 19:12:19 Maybe with the 4.4 version they've done stuff to it... but i've a feeling they spent most of the effort for that one on the webkit stuff ;) Jul 17 19:12:20 leinir, a search for mums mostly likely will and *should* start a return of local gardening stores and nurseries. Jul 17 19:12:22 zedstar_: iphone isn't such a great phone but as a device it's neat. they also seem to have forgotten the focus that users need to use a phone and not just a multimedia device Jul 17 19:12:52 leinir: webkit is great. is there a browser on Openmoko based on webkit? Jul 17 19:13:06 Though I'm sure you could rig it to return matriarchal affiliations, first and foremost :p Jul 17 19:13:24 newb, newp. Jul 17 19:13:48 There's a really crappy one which doesn't do much of anything. Jul 17 19:13:58 newb: Not yet, unfortunately, we're still waiting for the Qties's legal department (seemingly the slowest in the world) to get their collective backsides pulled together and release Qtopia 4.4 to us :) Jul 17 19:14:06 Granted, like everything else, openmoko, all the applications are highly experimental. Jul 17 19:14:09 newb: leinir: well, using a Mac as my desktop, that's the kind of search featurefullnes I tend to expect. When I encounter less on a device I tend to sigh at what I'm required to tolerate. Jul 17 19:14:22 a port of tomboy to the freerunner be nice Jul 17 19:14:26 Stroller: lol Jul 17 19:15:00 wurp2|work: another thing to check is whether your apps were built with the "-g" compile flag. I have a SELECTED_OPTIMIZATION line in my build/conf/local.conf that includes that flag, but I don't know if it's actually necessary Jul 17 19:15:26 mmontour: OK, thanks Jul 17 19:15:39 mmontour: I think your question earlier may have solved our issue Jul 17 19:16:02 mmontour: I think the app may be a glib app, and main is not our func, hence has no debug info Jul 17 19:16:08 newb: maybe this is why I generally HATE smartphones. Although their size is surely a contributing factor, also Jul 17 19:16:15 mmontour: (Obviously I'm just kibitzing, not doing real dev on it yet :-( Jul 17 19:16:26 Aww Jul 17 19:16:37 * DaveLab pats wurp2 Jul 17 19:20:05 leinir: its not TT's legal thats stopping 4.4, it's just that it hasnt been released yet Jul 17 19:21:04 lpotter: Really? Damn... please convey my pardons and i'm sure those of many others to your legal department, then, i was of the impression it'd been out for a considerable amount of time now :) Jul 17 19:21:16 Qtopia just lags behind Qt desktop, i take it? :) Jul 17 19:21:46 yes Jul 17 19:22:42 Hello Lpotter. Jul 17 19:22:51 are there somewhere daily snapshot images for ASU and FSO? Jul 17 19:22:58 fish_: buildhost.openmoko.org Jul 17 19:23:31 edistar: well, the freerunner stuff is pretty old there Jul 17 19:23:44 oop Jul 17 19:23:47 oops Jul 17 19:23:53 damn, sorry ;) Jul 17 19:24:45 hi DaveLab Jul 17 19:24:45 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080715/?C=M;O=D Jul 17 19:24:51 Enjoy! Jul 17 19:25:02 fish_: yeah, roughly 17h ;) Jul 17 19:25:18 :P~ Jul 17 19:25:37 Don't let the funky international datestamps fool you! Jul 17 19:25:38 :p Jul 17 19:26:40 Howdy! Can I use this as a freerunner tech support line? Jul 17 19:26:58 Hmm? Jul 17 19:27:01 a2sauce2: This is the only tech support line that I know of Jul 17 19:27:12 Yes, you may. Jul 17 19:27:18 which is why I'm here ;-) Jul 17 19:27:21 Thanks! Jul 17 19:27:22 begging for answers Jul 17 19:27:24 ;-) Jul 17 19:27:30 Let us be your lifeline for further technical issues, and let us show you the way to salvation. Jul 17 19:27:32 edistar: dunno, some days ago i stumbled about that and tought: oh, why aren't there any new images? (don't know where i was with my mind, stoned i guess) and since that i thought "well, seams like the buildhost is broken or something" ;)) Jul 17 19:28:13 Fish, nah, but admittedly the various official OM repos are shittily maintained, and that reminds me I still have to have a "talk" with someone... about that. Jul 17 19:28:14 does anyone know if lorn got the trolltech/qtopia package repository online yet? Jul 17 19:28:22 ab0oo! Jul 17 19:28:23 Dave's getting religious here Jul 17 19:28:24 I wish :p Jul 17 19:28:27 the one that speak qpkg? Jul 17 19:28:28 Xaos, hardly. Jul 17 19:28:42 ;-) Jul 17 19:28:43 DaveLab: What lab are you in? Jul 17 19:29:14 booting up for first time after flashing the latest Qtopia image Jul 17 19:29:27 seems a slower boot than scaredycat's Jul 17 19:30:07 Xaos: I'll agree that the qtopia boot time is slower than any of the GTK images. Jul 17 19:30:22 Sooooo... I "broke" my software keyboard on the freerunner trying to get a / or a_ in it... Now iit doesnt cycle through the letters at all... Then I tried to SSH into it. That didn't go well... So I was hoping someone smarter than me could help me out! Jul 17 19:30:37 specifically, it takes longer for QTopier/window manager to come up. Jul 17 19:30:53 ab0oo: That'll be ASU, then, yes? :) Jul 17 19:30:54 cool...lot's of new icons to play with in qtopia image Jul 17 19:31:00 lots Jul 17 19:31:04 no apostophe, please Jul 17 19:31:06 er Jul 17 19:31:07 qtopia != ASU Jul 17 19:31:08 apostrophe Jul 17 19:31:50 leinir: I was thinking OM2007.2 versus Trolltech's Qtopia Jul 17 19:32:10 I've not mucked with ASU longer than it took to flash it, boot it, and get over it. Jul 17 19:32:11 Holy shit! Here comes an "s"! Jul 17 19:32:27 like an apostle but for grammar Jul 17 19:32:33 yessir Jul 17 19:33:06 sorry for encourgaing clear communication. And sorry for hypocrisy in the matter with my many typos :-| Jul 17 19:33:18 DaveLab: well, i don't think thats the biggest problem. i think the biggest problem is that there are too many parallel systems/images.. if i had enough power i would force everbody into getting FSO done ;) Jul 17 19:33:42 Speedevil, around? Jul 17 19:33:54 fish: hah! Jul 17 19:34:02 A noble campaign. Jul 17 19:34:03 fish_: stand up comedian ;-) Jul 17 19:34:05 FSO does not use neod, is that correct? Jul 17 19:34:18 Chocky, that's your job. Jul 17 19:34:24 ab0oo :P Jul 17 19:34:25 thought it was yours Jul 17 19:34:28 hah Jul 17 19:34:33 it's a team effort :) Jul 17 19:34:38 Ah, duo. Jul 17 19:34:39 so am I screwed? Jul 17 19:34:44 * Chocky h5s Jul 17 19:35:27 mmontour ? Jul 17 19:35:33 Regarding your question about the -g flag Jul 17 19:35:41 (About what you were talking with wurp2|work) Jul 17 19:35:47 File describes the binary as not stripped Jul 17 19:35:54 So I guess there are debug symbols Jul 17 19:36:00 But the binary can't run Jul 17 19:36:20 DaveLab: actually, that was a serious question. Does FSO get away from neod, and it's constant load-average-of-2 ? Jul 17 19:37:29 Ainulindale: "not stripped" doesn't guarantee it was built with "-g" Jul 17 19:37:42 * newb sleeps G'nite Jul 17 19:37:43 mmontour: it was built with bitbake Jul 17 19:37:46 I took the debug version Jul 17 19:37:51 So either bitbake doesn't use -g Jul 17 19:38:00 Either it does and I don't know what the problem is Jul 17 19:38:03 ab0oo: no it was Jul 17 19:38:10 ab0oo: that's why I was smiling Jul 17 19:38:20 Anything that strays from it, I would be all for :p Jul 17 19:38:38 It's broken in -oh so many- ways. Jul 17 19:38:40 I have in my build/conf/local.conf: SELECTED_OPTIMIZATION = "-Os -g" Jul 17 19:38:55 Wish ecraven was here, we could kick back and rant about the whole thing :) Jul 17 19:39:03 well, from the first line of the wiki page: neod is "disposable" code... gack Jul 17 19:39:21 mmontour: I'll try that Jul 17 19:39:32 :D Jul 17 19:40:30 mmontour: oh, and do you know an easy way to replay bitbake compile phase ? Jul 17 19:40:47 how can i switch to fullscreen in minimo? Jul 17 19:41:31 malik1972: EXCELLENT question. Jul 17 19:41:40 when you get an answer, ping me Jul 17 19:41:53 "bitbake -c rebuild packagename" will rebuild the whole thing. If you want to just re-run the compile phase you'd probably have to delete the appropriate file from the "tmp/stamps" directory and then "bitbake -c compile packagename" again Jul 17 19:42:18 Ok mmontour :-) Jul 17 19:42:20 Thanks a lot Jul 17 19:42:24 (I'm not an OE/bitbake expert, so please don't expect my answers to be correct all of the time) Jul 17 19:42:26 abOoo: did you used http://www.ginguppin.de/node/16 Jul 17 19:43:00 I did not. Jul 17 19:43:06 I'm about to, though Jul 17 19:43:06 mmontour: by the way, make clean and bitbake -b package -c compile works too Jul 17 19:43:27 holy CRAP! the qtopia image looks a LOT more polished than the GTK did... Jul 17 19:43:35 well I guess if someone wants to help, I posted on the unofficial openmoko forum, So Ill wait for that... Jul 17 19:43:47 abOoo: there is a hint to add keyboard to /etc/matchbox/session and to restart X Jul 17 19:43:48 Xaos: right up to the point where you want either a terminal or a web browser, you're absolutely right Jul 17 19:43:55 * Chocky laffs Jul 17 19:43:55 uhm.. is it possible to flash from the system? -> download via wlan and than flash it Jul 17 19:44:09 ab0oo: LOL Jul 17 19:44:15 abOOo: but i cant see any diffs Jul 17 19:44:52 hmm. Jul 17 19:45:16 qtopia has had a few more years to get polished Jul 17 19:45:39 anyone noticed openmoko-dates and openmoko-today thrashing very hard? or is it perhaps because i accidentally made a 2.5 year event that isn't handled well? Jul 17 19:47:17 lpotter: any successon getting a package feed up for Qtopia's qpkgs? Jul 17 19:48:57 mmontour: thanks a lot again Jul 17 19:49:03 I now have debugging symbols Jul 17 19:49:03 hum. gpsdrive missing dependencies Jul 17 19:49:08 ab0oo: what's wrong with the terminal? seems to work for me Jul 17 19:49:11 np Jul 17 19:49:27 or files, or something Jul 17 19:49:42 there's a terminal in the qtopia build? Jul 17 19:49:52 qterminal under the applications Jul 17 19:49:55 ha. lpotter must have just added that in the last two days. Jul 17 19:50:02 ahh...funny Jul 17 19:50:23 I still think (philosophically) that FSO is the future, but I have no problem using the qtopia until that happens Jul 17 19:50:48 * Chocky finds qtopia immensly unusable Jul 17 19:50:58 ab0oo: not yet. had some other things I had to do Jul 17 19:51:14 but you added qterminal to the build, so it's almost-as-good Jul 17 19:51:52 malik1972: wow, it works for me Jul 17 19:51:58 of course, I haven't made a call using the qtopia image yet (nor have I installed an app or used gps) Jul 17 19:52:19 * leinir is with Xaos re FSO :) Jul 17 19:52:20 I just added the single word "keyboard" to the list of applets started by matchbox, and I got the icon in the top corner Jul 17 19:52:42 so, for very light calls, is T-Mobile 1000 minutes ($100 at 10c/min) really the best deal? Jul 17 19:52:46 when I push the icon, the keyboard in minimo goes away. Jul 17 19:53:18 now, how do I get to the pages I bookmarked in minimo Jul 17 19:53:28 I can't seem to find "Show Bookmarks" anywhere Jul 17 19:53:29 Xaos: just tried Qtopia; seems more usable than the Openmoko image. but i think the poor audio quality issue still remains :( Jul 17 19:53:40 chocky: Do you use more than 1000 minutes per year? Jul 17 19:53:53 rivalarrival: right now I use zero minutes. Jul 17 19:54:04 I might use 1000 mins in 6 months, maybe 4 if I got carried away Jul 17 19:54:29 Then yes, the 1000 minute is the most cost effective tmobile prepaid plan. Jul 17 19:54:39 for me, callers get echo when they call me with GTK, but I get buzzing and low send audio with QTopia. Jul 17 19:54:55 yes, but I meant of all US GSM plans everywhere. Jul 17 19:54:58 is there anything better? Jul 17 19:55:02 abOoo: what did you changed? Jul 17 19:55:08 * Chocky suspects not, but still can check ;-) Jul 17 19:55:19 abOo: which distribution you use? Jul 17 19:55:20 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rd4ce1cda4db3 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/ti_calypso/channel.py: ogsmd: [TI CALYPSO]: set sidetone to minimum Jul 17 19:55:43 I'm using the dailybuild of OM2007.2 Jul 17 19:55:47 if you are using Jabber, visit openmoko@conference.jabber.org Jul 17 19:55:50 from two days ago Jul 17 19:55:59 Chocky: I think TracFone (w/ double minutes) gets as low as $0.08/min or $0.06/min on certain specials Jul 17 19:56:06 hum. Jul 17 19:56:19 Chocky: but I haven't tried a TracFone SIM yet Jul 17 19:56:34 my ex GF has one that she might let me try Jul 17 19:56:34 is the T-Mobile PAYG free weekend minutes? Jul 17 19:56:48 when trying to build openmoko-devel-image, I get some undefined references to some curl-functions in the edje-package. Any ideas? Missing dependency in the makefile somewhere? wrong curl-lib in the openmoko repo? wrong curl installed on system? I'm building for x86. Jul 17 19:57:04 wow, the qtopia image is far more robust Jul 17 19:57:25 freerunnin: robust how? Jul 17 19:57:56 I wouldn't say robust, I'd say "mature", at least compared to the stock firmware. Jul 17 19:58:10 sitwon, um, yeah mature is probably the better word to use Jul 17 19:58:14 yes, but the same is true of the daily GTK builds Jul 17 19:58:17 I'm digging the qtopia...need to let it run for a couple of days, but like it so far....now, how do I get the app manager to work? are the repositories blank? sheesh! Jul 17 19:59:00 Chocky, are the daily GTK builds much more responsive than the stock software? Jul 17 20:00:12 freerunnin: wasn't trying to give you a hard time or anything, but "robust" is kinda vague and I was hoping you'd elaborate on what, specifically, you like better about it Jul 17 20:00:18 Xaos: that's the reason I'm back on OM2007.2. I'm a huge Qtopia fan, but until lpotter gets the feeds updated (or tells me how to set up a private feed on localhost, which I assume involves creating a Packages index), I'm having more luck with the OM2007.2 build Jul 17 20:00:21 I agree it seems much more mature Jul 17 20:00:48 sitwon, it booted faster and in general it seems more responsive Jul 17 20:00:58 can't you just put the repositories in via vi over ssh? Jul 17 20:01:00 sitwon, easy menus for changing prefs Jul 17 20:01:05 I think it's slightly more responsive, has much better integration for the wifi. I like the feel of the SMS app and the dialer is more better. Jul 17 20:01:23 ab0oo: which one are you talking about? Jul 17 20:01:25 qtopia? Jul 17 20:01:35 to date, I'm still really looking for a GUI mixer control, and a browser for QTopia Jul 17 20:01:39 Xaos: yes, qtopia Jul 17 20:01:54 freerunnin: if you haven't noticed it yet, you'll also find the suspend actually works in qtopia but not 2007.2 it seems Jul 17 20:02:08 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r5397124644e8 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/ubx.py: opgsd: Support sending of variable length messages Jul 17 20:02:42 abOoo: i have qtopia on nand and test 2007.2 on sd Jul 17 20:03:04 apparently my ear keeps pressing the call hangup button Jul 17 20:03:16 Conclusion after reading the hardware mailing list for an hour or so: <3 Joerg. Jul 17 20:03:36 abOoo: did you changed /etc/matchbox/session, restarted X and minimo behaved well? Jul 17 20:03:38 there's a gui mixer for Qtopia, but no browser. I contacted Torch (they sell a browser for embedded devices), and their response was "There's no market for the openmoko, and it's not an 'interesting' device because it lacks 3G" Jul 17 20:03:47 malik: that's what I'll probably end up with...stable telephone in nand and development fun on SD Jul 17 20:03:51 malik1972: yes Jul 17 20:03:54 And laugh at their silly antenna misadventures. Jul 17 20:04:09 abOoo: you are a lucky one Jul 17 20:04:11 hmm Jul 17 20:04:12 ab0oo: Torch sucks Jul 17 20:04:27 Xaos: was that your opinion before or after my comment? Jul 17 20:04:44 because I was a little put off by their response. Jul 17 20:05:51 qtopia 4.4 has a browser Jul 17 20:06:08 I told them I would still like to hear updates, and if they could please send them to my Haywood Jablowme account Jul 17 20:06:23 sitwon, it does? nice. I haven't unplugged it yet Jul 17 20:06:24 I don't even know who Torch is (I'm pretty ignorant) Jul 17 20:06:37 so that was just based on your comment ;-) Jul 17 20:06:42 lpotter: I know. It's based on WebKit, and I drool whenever I think about it. And it's due out when? Jul 17 20:06:53 sitwon: FSU is going to be a combo of GTK and qtopia, right? Jul 17 20:07:09 hopefully that will be a good middle ground Jul 17 20:07:13 I believe so Jul 17 20:07:20 guys, if I were to order a freerunner soon what is the likelihood of being hit by the faulty GPS issue? Jul 17 20:07:23 ab0oo: few more weeks Jul 17 20:07:25 GTK + Qtopia + E Jul 17 20:07:41 ah Jul 17 20:07:42 danw: 100% :) However, the software fix fixes it for everybody :) Jul 17 20:07:54 lpotter: is there an rss feed, or a mailing list, or something I can subscribe to to watch for it? Jul 17 20:07:56 ah ok so there is nothing wrong with the hardware itself? Jul 17 20:08:00 danw: the issue will be solved by a software fix and supposedly a "simple" hw fix Jul 17 20:08:09 hmmmmm Jul 17 20:08:20 danw: The dodgy soldering is not common at all, and the dodgy connector is an easy fix you can do yourself with a torx screwdriver and a pair of plyers :) Jul 17 20:08:37 are we talking simple as in solder a contact together, or simple as in reflash a PIC chip Jul 17 20:08:53 leinir: does that fix the "gps won't lock with SD card in place" problem? Jul 17 20:09:03 leinir: would that void my warranty? Jul 17 20:09:10 danw: No :) Jul 17 20:09:31 danw: the issue is that the SD card generates noise that interferes with the GPS antenna, the software fix turns off the SD clock when not reading or writing to it allowing the GPS sufficient time to get a fix in most situations Jul 17 20:09:39 ab0oo: No, that's the software fix that's being worked on :) (turn off SD clock when not needed) Jul 17 20:09:48 danw: Wait for official instructions from Openmoko before trying any hardware modifications Jul 17 20:09:50 i think it's just the initial fix Jul 17 20:10:02 danw: no details yet on what the hw fix will entail, but thre is the question on the ML of whether or not you even *have* a warranty Jul 17 20:10:04 so it suspends sd access until the intial fix is acquired Jul 17 20:10:17 i.c. Jul 17 20:10:39 freerunnin: No, it turns off the SD clock when the card isn't in use - not only does it fix the TTFF problem for the vast majority, it also reduces the device's power draw :) Jul 17 20:10:41 interesting that it's just the initial fix bothered by the SD clock Jul 17 20:10:58 and frees up more CPU for neod to suck down. Jul 17 20:11:02 freerunnin: no it just suspends SD whenever there is no active I/O to the card (which improves battery life) so as long as there's not constant I/O (very unlikely anyways) you can get a fix in a reasonable ammount of time Jul 17 20:11:16 can you install tangogps on the qtopia image or would it implode? ;-) Jul 17 20:11:28 haha, ok sorry Jul 17 20:11:29 likely not Jul 17 20:11:45 The only real problem with the SD card has been during TTFF. Once the initial fix has been acquired, there's no problem maintaining it with the SD card on. Jul 17 20:12:05 Xaos: I don't think so, the Qtopia image doesn't seem to run GTK software Jul 17 20:13:16 sitwon: someone listed "yes?" on qtopia running gtk software...do we need to update that to a "no?" Jul 17 20:13:47 ASU is not qtopia Jul 17 20:13:52 Xaos: the "yes" was probably talking about a qtopia-x11 (ASU) image Jul 17 20:13:54 Xaos: someone listed "yes" and I added the "?" because I couldn't get it to work Jul 17 20:14:03 ahh...thanks Jul 17 20:14:23 mmontour: there is a separate column for ASU Jul 17 20:14:49 Xaos, i think that there's an application called qpegps for qtopia Jul 17 20:14:50 umount /dev/mmcblk0p1 Jul 17 20:14:55 oops, wrong paste Jul 17 20:14:57 oh. Jul 17 20:15:02 freerunnin: cool...thanks! Jul 17 20:15:14 http://qpegps.sourceforge.net Jul 17 20:15:18 haha, welcome. Jul 17 20:17:59 success!... there was someone home to sign for my phone today Jul 17 20:18:23 daMaestro, congrats, now those you love will be neglected Jul 17 20:18:31 :) Jul 17 20:18:46 haha, no; $dayjob will keep me from the freerunner for some time Jul 17 20:18:50 i got a message from ups that mine is supposed to come today, some time between 8am and 7pm... *rolleyes* Jul 17 20:18:51 at least until next weekend Jul 17 20:19:06 peepsalot, there has to be someone to sign Jul 17 20:19:11 i know Jul 17 20:19:14 k Jul 17 20:19:19 that's why i'm working from home today Jul 17 20:19:45 hopefully they didn't come at 8 cause I was fast asleep :-P Jul 17 20:19:53 Jon o/ Jul 17 20:20:42 peepsalot: Check the door to see if they stuck on a "sorry, we missed you" card without ever knocking. Jul 17 20:21:27 door is clean, they have about 3.5 more hours till 7pm here Jul 17 20:22:24 ok, quittin time. see you fellows later. Jul 17 20:22:38 g'night Jul 17 20:25:29 can anyone tell me if ipkg works in the FR Jul 17 20:25:43 it doesn't. it's not there, use opkg :p Jul 17 20:26:05 everywhere seems to have sold out Jul 17 20:26:17 well, then can we package a sample source using toolchain to opkg Jul 17 20:26:54 I like zedlock Jul 17 20:26:58 the idea at least Jul 17 20:26:59 wiki for toolchain says the command "ipkg install .ipk" Jul 17 20:27:05 danw: www.koolu.com still claims to have stock Jul 17 20:27:38 danw: have no fear, they will produce more and the official store will be restocked Jul 17 20:29:06 anyone know approximate numbers that were sold? Jul 17 20:29:14 argh Jul 17 20:29:38 got a new SIM, still gives the same cme error Jul 17 20:29:43 almien: I would guess more than 10,000 Jul 17 20:29:53 sry for the question, but are you actually able to do calls with it? Jul 17 20:30:03 and sms? Jul 17 20:30:19 wesker: depending on the software... yes Jul 17 20:30:44 how can one make an opkg package of the sample source using toolchain Jul 17 20:31:09 thx...so the software that comes with it should be able to do it right? Jul 17 20:31:24 or will there be nothing preinstalled? Jul 17 20:32:16 well, which image is that? ASU? http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/ Jul 17 20:32:21 wesker: I've been using it as my only phone and it does phone calls and SMS fine. Jul 17 20:32:35 looks like 2007.2.. uhm Jul 17 20:33:00 gr8 thx Jul 17 20:33:15 wesker: basic phone functionality works for some people, but others have issues with SIMs or audio quality. Jul 17 20:33:15 (potentially) stupid question: is there an easy way to flash an image onto the SD card? link? Jul 17 20:34:01 Xaos: AFAIK no - you have to copy the files under Linux (either on the Freerunner or from a PC + card reader) Jul 17 20:34:08 Is there an easy way to disable the sound when you tap the screen? Jul 17 20:34:51 mmontour: ok...thanks...I'll follow the wiki that describes that way then Jul 17 20:37:12 has anyone found an easy way to convert or extract a jffs2 image? I tried to mount it as I would an ISO but I got "unknown filesystem" Jul 17 20:37:47 sitwon: the keyword you want is "mtdram". It's on the wiki somewhere Jul 17 20:38:23 ok, since nobody could help me compile openmoko-devel, I now have another question. I'm currently running Qemu with qtopia-image.. How can I get a terminal? Jul 17 20:40:43 mmontour: none of the modules modprobed in the example exist on my system... Jul 17 20:41:03 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r44e3bdc90e48 10/src/zhone: only resize the main edje group Jul 17 20:41:04 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * rb5a8104ec096 10/src/zhone: implment adding and deleting contacts Jul 17 20:41:04 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * rc9f8a466ffe3 10/src/zhone: use the real sim phonebook Jul 17 20:41:05 sitwon: time to fire up your compiler then :) Jul 17 20:41:26 mmontour: where would I get the source? are they in the vanilla kernel? Jul 17 20:41:58 * sitwon uses Slackware, not *buntu or Debian Jul 17 20:42:30 Should be. They're in OpenSUSE 10.3. Jul 17 20:43:33 hmm... I'll pull the latest kernel sources and recompile tonite... I might as well stay up since I get on the bus at 6am tomorrow Jul 17 20:43:46 * sitwon is gonna be at The Last HOPE Jul 17 20:44:55 hmm... does one need a certain voice permission in this channel? how do one ask questions? can anybody even see this question? Jul 17 20:45:12 pooze: we see you, what's your question? Jul 17 20:45:36 oh Jul 17 20:45:42 pooze: yes, I can see your questions Jul 17 20:45:43 which Qtopia image? Jul 17 20:46:10 the one that comes with 'make qemu', just a sec and I'll see if I can find the version. Jul 17 20:46:17 Terminal was just added in the latest snapshot Jul 17 20:46:19 but it doesn't seem very responsive no matter what I do. Jul 17 20:47:16 yeah have the same issue Jul 17 20:47:21 just started qtopia Jul 17 20:47:23 How does the ASU compare to the pure Qtopia image? I get the fact that one is x11 and the other isn't, but what about the rest? Jul 17 20:47:24 Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080710-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 seems to be the one. Jul 17 20:47:32 althought gta01, it should do something at least? Jul 17 20:48:01 Xaos: ASU has a completely different UI Jul 17 20:48:13 and different software as well Jul 17 20:48:24 what about phone call stability and functionality? Jul 17 20:48:26 pooze, gta01 and gta02 require their own jffs2 images Jul 17 20:48:36 oh he11...I'll just flash it and play with it Jul 17 20:48:45 Xaos: that's what I do ;-) Jul 17 20:48:52 how long until my flash wears out again? ;-) Jul 17 20:49:00 2 more days Jul 17 20:49:12 probably at this rate ;-) Jul 17 20:49:19 sitwon: somebody installed slackware on the neo http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/9c906dbf67ab7531ae81dd3a520f2af4.png Jul 17 20:49:20 hm 8000 failed fixes :P Jul 17 20:49:39 mjr: qemu was started with -M gta01 (to emulate gta01, since I read gta02 wasn't really supported), and the image seems to be gta01 as well, from the one posted above Jul 17 20:50:07 well, I didn't read too much context Jul 17 20:50:53 dunno: that SS could be *any* distro... Jul 17 20:51:42 Slackware is 99.9% vanilla packages Jul 17 20:52:31 the sdcard workaround is kinda useless? cause when you turn off the openmoko to insert the sdcard again, you need a new first fix? Jul 17 20:52:41 is it bad to attach images to email to the mailing list? Jul 17 20:52:44 workaround as 'remove' card Jul 17 20:52:52 my email is being moderated for being more than 40kb Jul 17 20:53:04 peepsalot: host it and link to it Jul 17 20:53:27 LetoTo: I guess it turns off the software usage of the SD-card, so no need to physically remove it. Jul 17 20:53:28 LetoTo: SW fix will solve it, upgrade Jul 17 20:53:31 LetoTo, it's not really a proper workaround, more of a testing thing. Though you can keep it powered through USB while inserting the card if you like... Jul 17 20:53:48 anyway i think its nice to see its possible, nice but useless Jul 17 20:54:48 peepsalot: yes, it is bad. Post a URL Jul 17 20:54:54 LetoTo: what mjr said, and also the software will eventually mature to a point where the GPS almanac + last location will be saved/restored across a reboot Jul 17 20:55:09 nod Jul 17 20:55:11 ah Jul 17 20:55:39 yeah, the software afaik exists already, "just" integration needed Jul 17 20:55:45 btw. I'm pretty impressed with the neo Jul 17 20:56:55 do you guys see a reply from thehans@gmail.com to the thread "Re: Ears and FR - Display Locker". i see it, but not sure if it's just my mail client showing that i sent that Jul 17 20:57:45 peepsalot: it's surely just gmail doing that Jul 17 20:57:59 ok, i will send again w/ link Jul 17 20:58:08 i cancelled the first Jul 17 20:59:33 wich is the best ui i should use Jul 17 20:59:42 and the fastest? Jul 17 21:00:08 matchbox-terminal ? Jul 17 21:00:29 gtk, kde, enlightenment? Jul 17 21:00:43 wesker: This exact moment? That'll be the qtopia image :) Jul 17 21:00:46 i saw in some vids that reaction time was pretty bad with gtk Jul 17 21:01:16 raw qtopia was definitely faster than GTK (once it booted up) Jul 17 21:01:17 qtopia is based on qt? Jul 17 21:01:26 such a smart boy Jul 17 21:01:34 Jul 17 21:01:45 is there a qtopia raw sdcard image that can be installed? Jul 17 21:01:54 eg that i can just dd= to a sdcard? Jul 17 21:02:07 anyone tried aircrack? Jul 17 21:02:30 Blalien: on an ARM? are you bored or something? Jul 17 21:03:01 IMAGE YOU'RE USING ROLL CALL Jul 17 21:03:12 2007.2 Jul 17 21:03:18 sitwon: Yeah, it would be very handy when I'm on vacation. Jul 17 21:03:55 Blalien: I hope you take long vacations... it would take a year to crack a 40-bit WEP key on an ARM Jul 17 21:04:15 LOL Jul 17 21:04:16 on a C2D it takes about 5min Jul 17 21:04:37 sitwon: lol? Jul 17 21:04:47 sitwon: I was thinking to go to the moon. O wait they don't have Wi-fi over there... Jul 17 21:05:12 sitwon: i guess it should take only a few minutes on an ARM too Jul 17 21:05:18 sitwon: on a R2D2 it takes about 5 msec Jul 17 21:05:52 sitwon: It is supported, so I think they thought about it. Jul 17 21:06:10 fish_: how do you reason? The ARM is a LOT slower... Jul 17 21:06:15 The card can't do promisc mode. Jul 17 21:06:17 FR's wifi won't do monitor mode anyway Jul 17 21:06:21 semiecho Jul 17 21:06:21 sitwon: it's not that much slower. Jul 17 21:06:52 sitwon: yeah, but cracking a WEP key isnt that complex Jul 17 21:06:54 sitwon: the clock speed is some 4-10 times slower. Jul 17 21:06:59 SpeedEvil: you think it's fast enough to crack WEP in a reasonable amount of time? Jul 17 21:07:47 sitwon: Neglecting the fact there is no hardware Jul 17 21:07:59 ok so 20-50min instead of 5 min... but the difference is on a Laptop I can do raw packet injection to generate the number of packes necessary to crack it in 5 min... the Neo doesn't even have Monitor mode Jul 17 21:08:35 that all depends on the attack you use for cracking the key Jul 17 21:08:37 keep in mind that ammount of packets you need usually won't generate themselves that quicly Jul 17 21:08:59 for aircrack-ptw thats "actual computation takes about 3 seconds and 3 MB main memory on a Pentium-M 1.7 GHz and can additionally be optimized for devices with slower CPUs." Jul 17 21:09:16 fish_: you still need a lot of packets for that Jul 17 21:09:24 sitwon: no Jul 17 21:09:44 fish_: the FR can't do monitor mode anyways (at least not yet) Jul 17 21:09:54 so you wouldn't even have 1 packet.... Jul 17 21:10:11 Related question: can the FR act as an AP? Jul 17 21:10:34 sitwon: with 50k packets you have a 50% chance to crack an 128bit key Jul 17 21:10:36 retracile, no Jul 17 21:10:45 same reason: the proprietary wlan firmware doesn't support it Jul 17 21:10:51 retracile: yes Jul 17 21:10:59 retracile: I dunno - I thought it could Jul 17 21:11:11 sitwon: you can achieve that in ~1 minute with an active attack like arp-injecting Jul 17 21:11:37 mjr: but i guess the firmware can be hacked? Jul 17 21:11:44 SpeedEvil: I tried it today w/ "iwconfig eth0 mode Master" and had no luck Jul 17 21:11:47 yeah sure, have fun with that Jul 17 21:11:54 mjr: Sure. Please do. Jul 17 21:11:58 err Jul 17 21:12:03 fish_: Sure, please do. Jul 17 21:12:24 hw is atheros, right? Jul 17 21:12:37 fish_, yes, but not the atheros you probably think, and no it won't work Jul 17 21:12:47 fish_: it's Atheros hardware, but not the same chip supported by madwifi Jul 17 21:13:32 * sitwon keeps one of those handy for running aircrack on his laptop Jul 17 21:13:35 well, hacking a alternative firmware/hal was at least possible for the madwifi supported atheros chipsets Jul 17 21:13:38 * mjr wonders idly that it'd ease funky things if the firmware would support some "passthrough" softmac mode... Jul 17 21:13:46 * retracile throws his mobile wireless router idea out the window Jul 17 21:14:12 There are other fun things that can be done with rawer access to the hardware. Jul 17 21:14:18 retracile: you can still use Ad-hoc mode... but we need routing ability Jul 17 21:14:30 yes, ad-hoc should be usable Jul 17 21:14:36 For example, RF hardware is only on .1 in 10 seconds, and packets are queued on the host side. Jul 17 21:14:46 no iptables... (yet?) Jul 17 21:15:21 i saw the kernel modules Jul 17 21:15:26 prog just opkg install them Jul 17 21:17:29 LetoTo: hmm.. but what about the 'iptables' utility? Jul 17 21:18:40 sitwon: didnt look for that yet. my phone is in the window trying to find satelites :) Jul 17 21:19:00 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/ <- this is 2007.2, right? Jul 17 21:19:09 "opkg list | grep iptables" just turned up kernel modules Jul 17 21:19:13 * SpeedEvil passes LetoTo xephem, and some binoculars. Jul 17 21:20:17 can I use the 20080717 uImage file with the 20080716 qtopia-x11 filesystem? Jul 17 21:20:43 sounds fine to me. Jul 17 21:20:56 but don;t assume I know what I'm talking about :) Jul 17 21:21:06 and is there a reason to update my uboot? I'm still running what came on the phone Jul 17 21:21:15 xephem? :) Jul 17 21:21:23 (I have no debug board, but I understand that's not a problem with the FR) Jul 17 21:21:36 ah Jul 17 21:21:36 is the SW fix in the new uImage? and do I need to flash it or is opkg upgrade enough? Jul 17 21:24:28 Does anybody know how to get the gtype of a glib object ? Jul 17 21:26:14 man, my screen is covered in fingerprints already. how should it be cleaned? Jul 17 21:26:45 cjb: lick it and then wipe it on your jeans Jul 17 21:26:52 well...that's what I do Jul 17 21:26:54 :) Jul 17 21:27:03 I never removed the original plastic covering... I just have to keep smoothing out the bubbles Jul 17 21:27:40 sitwon: I kept mine on for two days...then it just annoyed the crap outta me...I gotta get some real screen protectors Jul 17 21:28:13 * retracile uses a baby washcloth Jul 17 21:28:31 Xaos: I'm probably gonna get a better screen protector eventually... but until then the original plastic works fine Jul 17 21:29:28 http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Screen-Protector-OPenmoko-Neo1973_W0QQitemZ180265712050QQihZ008QQcategoryZ20336QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Jul 17 21:29:56 ...or http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Screen-Protector-OPenmoko-Neo1973_W0QQitemZ110237137197QQihZ001QQcategoryZ20336QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247 Jul 17 21:30:44 screen protectors are the only result on ebay when you type "openmoko" Jul 17 21:31:12 that's 'cause you'll have to pry our Neo's from our cold, dead fingers. ;) Jul 17 21:32:19 retracile: be careful what you say...they finally got Heston's gun too Jul 17 21:32:36 (is it too soon for that joke?) Jul 17 21:33:11 Xaos: heh. I was waiting for someone to reply with "I find your offer.... acceptable" :) Jul 17 21:33:22 hehe Jul 17 21:33:39 (as seen on /. ) Jul 17 21:43:06 hah, they didn't get his gun. He won Jul 17 21:45:34 doc...no...they DID get it...of course they had to pry it... Jul 17 21:45:51 no, they never got it, pried or otherwise :) Jul 17 21:47:01 Wasn't he addressing an NRA rally when he said that? Jul 17 21:47:35 I guess that means his gun went to the scrap merchants or something, if no NRA members got it. Jul 17 21:47:37 very possibly Jul 17 21:47:51 or is still in his estate Jul 17 21:48:39 ieatlint: how did you get that email address? Jul 17 21:49:53 ? Jul 17 21:50:24 @tehinterweb.com Jul 17 21:50:36 oh, i bought tehinterweb.com Jul 17 21:50:39 * doc|work has deleted the email now :( Jul 17 21:50:40 * SpeedEvil has suitable screen protectors (for freeruner) for $5us shipped free. Jul 17 21:50:41 oh, nice :) Jul 17 21:50:48 SpeedEvil: link! Jul 17 21:50:52 and i'm running google apps on it Jul 17 21:50:54 PM Jul 17 21:50:55 SpeedEvil: suitable and good? Jul 17 21:51:10 Suitable as in very clear, and will protect the screen 100% Jul 17 21:51:15 nice Jul 17 21:51:16 how's that SpeedEvil? Jul 17 21:51:18 And easily replacable. Jul 17 21:51:22 i'm also connected to irc from tehinterweb.com ... yay.. Jul 17 21:51:26 ieatlint: :) Jul 17 21:51:50 They are not however completely scratchproof, and will need replaced if you use them with diamond styluses. Jul 17 21:52:00 ah Jul 17 21:52:04 Just booting up with the ASU image...I like the boot progress bar, but it needs to be red and look more like a cylon ;-) Jul 17 21:52:36 SpeedEvil: link? Jul 17 21:52:53 message me - I don't have them setup on a website. Jul 17 21:57:16 mooses Jul 17 21:58:26 the plural of moose is moose, mooses is incorrect Jul 17 21:59:04 meeses? Jul 17 21:59:20 Goose -> Geese Moose -> Meese Jul 17 21:59:44 Mouse -> Mice, Moose ... er, wait .... Jul 17 21:59:48 Correct. Jul 17 22:00:02 Muse Jul 17 22:00:19 what's the plural of Muse then? Muses? Jul 17 22:00:19 preciousses Jul 17 22:00:26 no...a Muse is a hot chick on roller skates Jul 17 22:00:32 * Chocky laffs Jul 17 22:00:41 Chocky's seen Xanadu Jul 17 22:00:50 * doc|work lost Jul 17 22:00:52 Chocky must be old (hehe) Jul 17 22:00:52 no, I was thinking more Boogie Nights Jul 17 22:00:58 oh Jul 17 22:00:58 nevermind Jul 17 22:01:01 heh Jul 17 22:01:24 although I don't know that "Muse" was mentioned anywhere. just the rollerchick Jul 17 22:07:00 peepsalot, i don't see your message in that thread (yet) but i'm glad to know i'm not the only one hanging up with my ear. Jul 17 22:09:00 trix, well, i haven't been hanging up with my ear, since I don't have a freerunner yet. :-P but I definitely see the possibility of that being a problem. i was just adding some suggestions to the discussion Jul 17 22:09:03 anyone know which is the best ASU image to use currently? Jul 17 22:11:25 peepsalot, oh, soon enough then :) i hung up on a friend, on accident, twice in 15 minutes. i like the ideas in that thread though, especially using the accelerometers Jul 17 22:13:33 Loo also on the wiki, in the category accelerometers Jul 17 22:13:38 ^k Jul 17 22:18:02 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * rf0e7876129f2 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/abstract/mediator.py: ogsmd: fix two typos in SimDeleteEntry Jul 17 22:21:33 how would I import contacts into the qtopia image? Jul 17 22:26:54 it's heeeeeere Jul 17 22:27:36 grats :) Jul 17 22:35:18 how many gta01's were produced? Jul 17 22:43:00 Woo Hoo peeps! Jul 17 22:45:09 new qtopia image for freerunner at qtopia.net that fixes the display corruption on resume Jul 17 22:46:03 resume? I didn't think the qtopia image supported suspend/resume. Jul 17 22:47:10 it supports suspend, that i know Jul 17 22:47:13 but the resume is new Jul 17 22:47:40 heheh Jul 17 22:47:43 ieatlint: qtopia or ASU? Jul 17 22:48:32 they all have resume issues Jul 17 22:48:36 hey how do you open the freerunner to put the battery and MicroSD card in? Jul 17 22:48:52 dtx: guitar pick Jul 17 22:48:53 ;) Jul 17 22:48:54 dremel Jul 17 22:48:56 dtx: I used my fingernail Jul 17 22:49:03 dtx: in at the top, slide over to the sides Jul 17 22:49:05 fingernail or USB cable both work. Jul 17 22:49:33 >_> Jul 17 22:49:37 Hai. Jul 17 22:49:44 so you pry it open? Jul 17 22:49:52 or you push into that slot? Jul 17 22:50:04 *Noobie* So, I just got my Freerunner. How do I get the latest software onto it? Jul 17 22:50:15 dtx, yes, both Jul 17 22:50:19 gmaxwell: i added mwesters kernel that actuaaly resumes for the most part Jul 17 22:50:31 Infinyte: read the getting started guide on the wiki Jul 17 22:51:05 dtx: you should read the getting started guide too Jul 17 22:51:05 oh ok Jul 17 22:51:06 got it Jul 17 22:51:10 I didn't see one Jul 17 22:51:18 mmmmfreerunner Jul 17 22:51:31 Well yeah.. But it confuses me. :< Jul 17 22:51:31 Err, I guess I have a simpler question: Do I just upgrade/update on the phone. Or should I Flash it with the newest build? Jul 17 22:51:33 do I need to fully charge the battery before first use? Jul 17 22:51:36 I guess no one looks at the bit of green paper which says to look at the wiki Jul 17 22:51:42 dtx: wiki! Jul 17 22:51:51 Chocky: not true, you did, I did Jul 17 22:51:55 ;-) Jul 17 22:51:59 I'm sure there were at least a few others Jul 17 22:52:05 ok, so 5 of us Jul 17 22:52:08 I did. >_> It just confuses me a bit. Jul 17 22:52:09 anyway, it's all there. Jul 17 22:52:12 wiki karma Jul 17 22:52:24 Infinyte: it's not so bad once you actually read it Jul 17 22:52:26 * Chocky understands that the content is excessive and confusing Jul 17 22:52:32 just seems overwhelming at first Jul 17 22:52:36 it'll improved, like everything else Jul 17 22:52:40 it needs to be broken up. Jul 17 22:52:46 it's turning into a manual Jul 17 22:53:18 Well, I can understand most of the procedures. I'm just wondering what Should be done I suppose, not SO much how to do it. Jul 17 22:53:46 true Jul 17 22:53:59 * doc|work grrrrs at sales@openmoko Jul 17 22:54:16 yeah.. I emailed sales@openmoko.com and never got a reply Jul 17 22:54:16 Until things like resume / SD clock fix are in the builds I dunno why there would be a compelling reason to upgrade unless you're going to do system level development. Jul 17 22:54:25 It doesn't help that the wiki main page has two different links called "Neo FreeRunner" (under "Navigation" and under "Openmoko Products") Jul 17 22:54:28 biovore: how long ago? Jul 17 22:54:37 3 days Jul 17 22:54:40 Ah okay, so just stick with the Stock firmware then? Jul 17 22:54:40 gmaxwell: cos it's still a big improvement Jul 17 22:54:42 urgh Jul 17 22:54:46 no, the stock sucks Jul 17 22:55:00 well, the build I installed yesterday sucked too Jul 17 22:55:07 heh Jul 17 22:55:08 must try one of the others Jul 17 22:55:18 Chocky, stock has been my primary phone for two days now. ;) Will I possibly regret upgrading? ;) Jul 17 22:55:20 latest GTK is teh goodness Jul 17 22:55:29 Chocky: how'd you get that? Jul 17 22:55:31 gmaxwell: I promise nothing. it's after all, a dev build. Jul 17 22:55:46 Chocky: that the one linked to from the wiki? Jul 17 22:55:48 doc|home: followed my nose. daily build as linked from firmware Jul 17 22:55:50 aye Jul 17 22:56:06 freerunner has landed Jul 17 22:56:08 yeah, that was broken for me. Clicking on the text message notification didn't work Jul 17 22:56:12 aw Jul 17 22:56:13 linuxxr: \o/ Jul 17 22:56:13 ok Jul 17 22:56:21 So... This? http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080717/ Jul 17 22:56:23 well, it's still much better than default, IMO Jul 17 22:56:28 how long to charge/ Jul 17 22:56:38 linuxxr: an hour using the wall wart charger Jul 17 22:56:41 or so Jul 17 22:56:41 inif: yes, but there's a couple of things there. Jul 17 22:56:48 qtoipia vs GTK. Jul 17 22:57:13 wait, that's not what I installed Jul 17 22:57:20 hmmm Jul 17 22:57:50 Right, I need: Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080717-om-gta02.rootfs.tar.gz Jul 17 22:57:50 And: openmoko-devel-image-om-gta02.tar.gz Jul 17 22:57:50 If I'm reading this all correctly. Jul 17 22:57:54 meh, I hate to screw with it now that it's basically working. ... if I get it stuck in a sucky state again I'll end up switching phones and forget about it for months again. Jul 17 22:58:02 I got my phone baby! Jul 17 22:58:04 it's your call. Jul 17 22:58:09 you can always go back of course Jul 17 22:58:27 Where is the code that shipped with it posted? Jul 17 22:58:34 linked from the wiki also Jul 17 22:59:02 I wonder if I reinstalled that :/ Jul 17 22:59:08 And, is there a build of the current code for GTA01? Jul 17 22:59:13 I don't want to force anyone to use any particular stuff, just saying the latest GTK might give best experience Jul 17 22:59:18 I believe so Jul 17 22:59:39 should be obviously labelled Jul 17 22:59:51 Chocky, I always regretted upgrading my zaurus.. so it's just those memories causing me doubts. Jul 17 22:59:55 hm Jul 17 22:59:56 As far as Stability goes, which is the best? GTK, FSO, ASU, or Qtopia? Jul 17 23:00:05 how do i enter my pin with ASU? i only get a qwerty keyboard instead a numpad... Jul 17 23:00:12 FSO, cos it doesn't do much ;-) Jul 17 23:00:17 haha Jul 17 23:00:27 does fso have a web browser? Jul 17 23:00:31 no Jul 17 23:00:39 Err, nevermind FSO then. Keke Jul 17 23:00:44 FSO is very basic Jul 17 23:00:54 maybe the new builds are better though. not sure Jul 17 23:02:35 OMGOMGOMGOMG Jul 17 23:02:40 I HAVEAAAAAA AAAA FREERUNNER Jul 17 23:02:40 is there an easy way of changing to 12-hour format on the clock in 2007.2? Jul 17 23:02:41 pwnies! Jul 17 23:02:55 congratulations kd8ikt Jul 17 23:03:05 kd8ikt, welcome to the club Jul 17 23:03:06 all the negative things i ever said about the freerunner i take it all back Jul 17 23:03:06 :) Jul 17 23:03:15 kd8ikt: give it time ;) Jul 17 23:03:18 kd8ikt: I'd hold off on that sentiment for a few months Jul 17 23:03:21 its perfect even though it has a few hardware blemishes Jul 17 23:03:21 * almien got a GPS signal for first time today! (after removing the SD card...) Jul 17 23:03:24 kd8ikt: wait until you find that your SIM doesn't work :) Jul 17 23:03:31 ... I need to change the ringer on the FR .. I like it, but I don't think I'll ever recognize it as mine. .. I've missed calls three times on it. Jul 17 23:03:36 * cjb is off to the AT&T store. again. sigh. Jul 17 23:03:40 nah my sim works like a charm Jul 17 23:04:02 is that an at&t problem or a freerunner problem Jul 17 23:04:04 sometimes from resume/deep sleep it cant read the sim contacts but a few tweaks and they are back Jul 17 23:04:07 is ringtone in /usr/share somewhere? is there some guide to where all the customisable bits of OM are? Jul 17 23:04:09 and why not just bring it with you? :) Jul 17 23:04:22 mine just doesn't come back at all from sleep Jul 17 23:04:33 hm Jul 17 23:04:33 even when sim isn't in Jul 17 23:04:47 and sometimes sounds is muted Jul 17 23:04:48 a couple of times the lock screen has been unresponsive for me.. kinda weird. Jul 17 23:04:54 lock screen is spiffy looking Jul 17 23:05:00 but hey its beta at best Jul 17 23:05:08 lock timeout is way too short Jul 17 23:05:11 but still sleek/sexy Jul 17 23:05:26 yeah wtf is up with no options/settings? Jul 17 23:05:35 lets get to it Jul 17 23:05:39 eek. my phone is dead. wtf Jul 17 23:05:43 yessir Jul 17 23:05:56 gmaxwell: aw. remove battery. Jul 17 23:06:27 gah ! Jul 17 23:06:36 * Chocky suggests that suspend isn't real good in default image ;-) Jul 17 23:06:42 Uhoh. >_> What size SD cards can the FreeRunner accept? Jul 17 23:06:48 microSD Jul 17 23:06:54 or you mean storage? Jul 17 23:06:57 Chocky, .. I don't have suspend enabled. Jul 17 23:06:57 doc|work: I'm assuming Rogers works fine ? :p Jul 17 23:07:02 Storage Jul 17 23:07:04 Infinyte, I have an 8gb microsd in mine Jul 17 23:07:12 there's a thread on mailing list about 8GB ones Jul 17 23:07:18 again, look on the wiki Jul 17 23:07:18 Hmm. Jul 17 23:07:51 I guess the battery must have drained down.. meh. odd Jul 17 23:08:00 yes Jul 17 23:08:07 Well that's odd. I got a 2Gig microSD (Or so I thought) and it seems to be slightly to big. O_o Jul 17 23:08:08 there's a uboot update recently which helps with that Jul 17 23:08:40 Infinyte, you mean it won't physically fit? are you putting it in upside down? Jul 17 23:08:42 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r378bc487234a 10/ (3 files in 3 dirs): odeviced: add first sketch of audio object complying to org.freesmartphone.Device.Audio Jul 17 23:08:54 Yeah physically. Jul 17 23:09:10 Infinyte, make sure you're following the little diagram. Jul 17 23:12:00 Hrm, I wonder if I accidentally got a miniSD card.. Jul 17 23:12:14 Is it 15*10*1mm Jul 17 23:12:24 If so, it's microSD Jul 17 23:12:32 Also, it'll have MicroSD written on it Jul 17 23:12:43 microsd is pretty close to minisd in size. Jul 17 23:13:17 hola Jul 17 23:13:39 qtopia ran all day without killing the battery ;P Jul 17 23:13:43 Hmm, it says M2 on it. Jul 17 23:14:14 ooo Jul 17 23:14:14 kelvie_work: worked for me I think, didn't really play with it Jul 17 23:14:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital Jul 17 23:14:26 you might've been screwed with a sony memory stick micro Jul 17 23:14:33 miniSD is 21*20mm Jul 17 23:14:43 About double the area Jul 17 23:14:51 microSD is credit card aspect ratio Jul 17 23:14:57 miniSD is square Jul 17 23:15:14 my microsd card came with a bunch of adapters. Matroska memory. Jul 17 23:15:18 Ah, well mine isn't a mini then. Jul 17 23:15:32 infinyte, one of this kind of things? http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Memory-Stick-Retail-Package/dp/B000JQV8LA Jul 17 23:15:34 But it's not shaped the same as the microSD that came with the Freerunner Jul 17 23:15:42 Infinyte: odd Jul 17 23:15:46 Infinyte, are you putting it into the sim slot? Jul 17 23:15:48 oh.. hm Jul 17 23:15:49 Yes exactly. Jul 17 23:15:57 It looks like the one in that link Jul 17 23:16:03 ruh roh Jul 17 23:16:12 Yes well. That's Sony's very own incompatible with everyone else memory card Jul 17 23:16:22 Bloody 'ell. >_> Jul 17 23:17:02 Oh well. Jul 17 23:17:07 I'll trade it in tomorrow. Jul 17 23:17:15 good if you can Jul 17 23:17:51 it's like the matrix, when my colleage changes the network, I reconnect Jul 17 23:18:10 who has WiFi working? with what image? WEP, WPA, open? any special considerations not found at http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_WLAN ?? Jul 17 23:18:15 lucky I have my trusty Neo! Jul 17 23:18:28 what's the best image to use currently? Jul 17 23:18:33 WEP/WAP don't work with default image Jul 17 23:18:38 qtopia ;) Jul 17 23:18:39 as an everyday phone? Jul 17 23:18:40 peepsalot: daily GTK, probably Jul 17 23:18:52 if you want to be able to use the phone that is ;P Jul 17 23:19:00 IME, IMHO, IANAL, etc, etc Jul 17 23:19:16 stfu Jul 17 23:19:21 so rude! Jul 17 23:19:23 chillywilly I've been happily using the phone with the default image. YMMV Jul 17 23:19:31 sorry, thought this was acronym hour Jul 17 23:19:34 :) Jul 17 23:19:46 KTBye Jul 17 23:19:49 :) Jul 17 23:20:10 btw, the wiki is wrong as there is a GUI to configure wifi w/ qtopia Jul 17 23:20:16 true. Jul 17 23:20:30 I couldn't make it work though. YMMV Jul 17 23:20:48 chillywilly, tempt me no more with your QTOPIA dreams! Jul 17 23:20:50 I guess I haven't really tried it either because my router is wonky Jul 17 23:21:00 gmaxwell: haha! Jul 17 23:21:36 gmaxwell: the apps are pretty polished...I just don't know if I can install whatever I want and have it show up in the qtopia menu Jul 17 23:21:39 wiki for me so far is though command via USB+ssh first Jul 17 23:21:48 er, wifi Jul 17 23:22:04 chillywilly, I tried qtopia on my GTA01 when it first came out.. it wasn't usable but it was slick looking. Jul 17 23:22:23 is there any bluetooth audio support on the freerunner yet worth talking about? Jul 17 23:23:05 Saweet. Jul 17 23:23:10 Mum's gonna pick one up. >_> Jul 17 23:23:26 Chox, where is daily gtk located? Jul 17 23:24:18 is it just me, or does the bitbake system look strangely like gentoo's portage? Jul 17 23:24:37 or whatever portage was based off of (don't know how bsd ports work) Jul 17 23:24:54 So, GTK, qtopia or ASU? :D Jul 17 23:25:48 Infinyte, why choose? port qemu to FR .. then.... Jul 17 23:26:06 Qemu? >_> *Noobie* Jul 17 23:26:12 this is gmaxwell using qemu waiting for it to respond ^ Jul 17 23:26:33 "c'mon damn you! hurry up, you're only running 3 images concurrently!" Jul 17 23:27:05 hm Jul 17 23:27:16 doc|work, :) Jul 17 23:27:31 is dropbear restricted to only that one ip address?192.168.0.202 Jul 17 23:28:16 usb net Jul 17 23:28:25 kd8ikt, why? get 0wned over wifi already? Jul 17 23:28:39 lolz know i'm locked out unless through usb Jul 17 23:28:45 no* Jul 17 23:28:50 kd8ikt: the usb0 interface is set to 192.168.0.202 by default Jul 17 23:29:02 but what about dropbear Jul 17 23:29:12 doc|work you get your phones yet? Jul 17 23:29:17 i cant connect to ssh via wifi Jul 17 23:29:23 you can change that through /etc/network/interfaces Jul 17 23:29:31 gmaxwell: I was able to use my freerunner to do all kinds of things...SMS, MMS, make/receive calls, etc. Jul 17 23:29:36 with qtopia Jul 17 23:29:47 and the keyboard is sweet Jul 17 23:30:00 chillywilly, okay okay.. what image file? Jul 17 23:30:13 um Jul 17 23:30:23 kd8ikt: ahh...you mean is sshd bound to that address only? Jul 17 23:30:47 gmaxwell: http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=6 Jul 17 23:30:52 bah Jul 17 23:30:53 wrong one Jul 17 23:31:08 gmaxwell: http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=6 Jul 17 23:31:19 that's the same flippin url... Jul 17 23:31:22 * chillywilly goes mad Jul 17 23:31:30 kd8ikt: no, I don't think it is. Jul 17 23:31:31 chillywilly, does it include a terminal app now? Jul 17 23:31:39 gmaxwell: yes Jul 17 23:32:02 b0ef: hi :-) Jul 17 23:33:08 ok my bad had a bad ip Jul 17 23:33:17 meh.. 42mbytes over evdo... Jul 17 23:36:45 what graphical media players are working in 2007.2? just mplayer? Jul 17 23:39:30 Hrm. >_> Which build has working Wifi and a Browser? x) Jul 17 23:41:56 Infinyte, you can easily add a browser to the default build Jul 17 23:42:15 minimimimomomim or whatever its called seems to work well, though I can't get the keyboard to go away. Jul 17 23:42:33 webkit > gecko/minimo Jul 17 23:42:42 Ah. :o Jul 17 23:42:42 Is there supposed to be a way that the Freerunner should get the time from the network yet? Jul 17 23:42:51 Centaur5, you can install ntp Jul 17 23:42:56 or do you mean gsm network? Jul 17 23:43:00 or GPS network? ;) Jul 17 23:43:10 gmaxwell: I was referring to gsm network. Jul 17 23:43:13 yay gps works Jul 17 23:43:17 gmaxwell: I'm satisfied with ntp. Jul 17 23:43:23 Which build type (gtk/qtopia) is more stable? Jul 17 23:43:46 39 N x 84w Jul 17 23:43:52 is my location' Jul 17 23:44:01 ;) Jul 17 23:44:10 drop teh bomb on meh Jul 17 23:44:23 if I run 'opkg -test BLAH' that will not really perform the BLAH action right? Jul 17 23:44:32 bear in mind i have yet to install the sd card Jul 17 23:45:07 gmaxwell: How could one manually edit the time on that today screen clock? Jul 17 23:45:28 people are going to get sick of me talking about qtopia but it rocks ;P Jul 17 23:45:31 Oh, better question. Which Build has a QWERTY keyboard? Jul 17 23:45:38 Centaur5, from the shell you can use the date command. Jul 17 23:45:53 gmaxwell: alright, thank you Jul 17 23:45:55 Infinyte, a simple command on the default gives it a qwerty keyboard (see the getting started) Jul 17 23:46:21 Infinyte, however the qwerty you can use with the default is not usable with your fingers. :) Jul 17 23:46:27 (needs the stylus) Jul 17 23:46:56 can anyone tell me why bluetooth wont disable Jul 17 23:47:10 keeps poping back on automagicly Jul 17 23:47:47 Oh. >_> Jul 17 23:48:01 Dangit. Can't decide what build to flash it with. :< Jul 17 23:48:47 Infinyte, well... as I said earlier.. I found default basically functional. ... I'm about to flash to today's qtopia image for grins and giggles.. sine chillywilly seems to love it so much Jul 17 23:48:48 :) Jul 17 23:49:04 chillywilly: I agree Jul 17 23:49:20 I would ASSUME that qtopia is quicker, because it takes less resources right? Jul 17 23:49:36 ASS-U-ME Jul 17 23:49:45 Exactly. >_> Jul 17 23:49:49 its faster cause it uses Qt Jul 17 23:49:52 :) Jul 17 23:49:59 Aye. Jul 17 23:50:05 So, what are the pros and cons then? Jul 17 23:50:19 does OE use EABI support by default - means do the current deployed images use EABI? Jul 17 23:50:33 thomasg: yes Jul 17 23:50:34 Infinyte, a pure qtopia environment is something of a walled garden.. no X11.. only QT apps. Jul 17 23:50:41 thx :( Jul 17 23:50:53 Ahh. Jul 17 23:51:10 (obviously shell stuff is universal) Jul 17 23:51:13 gmaxwell: but then how many x11 apps are actuaaly usable on the neo? Jul 17 23:51:28 But the GTK image on the other hand can use Qtopia applications? Jul 17 23:51:37 lpotter, I can remote display apps from my PC! ;) Jul 17 23:52:00 qtopia has vnc but i havent put up a feed yet Jul 17 23:52:42 Infinyte, the ASU image unifies them. Jul 17 23:52:43 is it safe to run a opkg upgrade on a qtopia install? Jul 17 23:53:20 should be. try it and let me know how it goes. i have not tried that yet Jul 17 23:53:26 lpotter: are you the qtopia dev I see posts from - Lorn Potter? Jul 17 23:53:30 thomasg: do you need to run OABI apps? There are ways to do so, e.g. the gllin GPS driver on GTA01 Jul 17 23:53:31 yep Jul 17 23:53:56 mmontour, no, I just hoped that there was some float improvements possible, but now I have to stagnate :( Jul 17 23:54:18 lpotter: is there some place you can report bugs as if I restart my device qtopia forget my voicemail setting that I entered Jul 17 23:54:26 Erm.. I've had my Freerunner plugged in for a few hours. But I want to change it from the wall plug to my PC plug so I can start working on it. Is that safe? Or should I let it fully charge before moving it? Jul 17 23:54:32 voicemail number Jul 17 23:54:33 what sort of improvements? Jul 17 23:54:43 Infinyte: no real problem swapping it Jul 17 23:54:50 performance improvements Jul 17 23:55:00 Infinyte: it may be charged noe Jul 17 23:55:13 Ahkay Jul 17 23:55:20 chillywilly: right here. openmoko mailing list. qtopia interest mailing list or email me :) Jul 17 23:56:58 what's the difference of the nor and nand boot menus? Jul 17 23:58:26 What's the partition name for your Freerunner when you're going to flash it? Jul 17 23:58:55 Infinyte, FOLLOW THE GETTING STARTED GUIDE! :) Jul 17 23:58:56 Infinyte: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner#Flashing_the_Neo_FreeRunner Jul 17 23:59:11 what trix said. Jul 17 23:59:21 what gmaxwell said Jul 17 23:59:22 ;) Jul 18 00:00:43 thomasg: out of curiosity, why does EABI remove the possibility for float performance improvements? Jul 18 00:00:49 >_> Right.. But it says : ./dfu-util -a (partion name) -R -D (download image file name) Jul 18 00:00:49 Maybe I should follow along with the guide instead of reading the whole thing before even getting started? Kekeke Jul 18 00:01:16 -a is either "kernel" or "rootfs" depending on which you're flashing Jul 18 00:01:22 mmontour, it doesn't - but if the used oabi there would have been the chance to switch to eabi and get it's softfloat improvments :) Jul 18 00:01:34 Ahh. Makes sense. Jul 18 00:01:40 ah. The low-hanging fruit has already been picked. Jul 18 00:03:24 hope i dont kill it running opkg upgrade Jul 18 00:04:00 video froze but my ssh shell is going strong so its all gravy Jul 18 00:04:10 mmontour, it just killed all my hopes :) Jul 18 00:04:13 i am in love Jul 18 00:04:42 i finnaly know what kinda tattoo i want... the openmoko symbol Jul 18 00:05:07 oohhh.. qtopia pretty. Jul 18 00:05:44 should the film that comes on the screen be taken off or left on? Jul 18 00:06:25 thewtex_: leave it on till you replace it with a screen protector. Jul 18 00:06:28 It was not registering my touches correctly, but i did turn the screen Jul 18 00:06:30 okay.. qtopia cool Jul 18 00:06:40 SpeedEvil: thanks dude Jul 18 00:06:49 thewtex_: or remove it and be careful. It's just a bit of plastic Jul 18 00:07:24 SpeedEvil: you have a line on a protector? Jul 18 00:07:34 i was wondering where to get one Jul 18 00:07:51 wow the screen is gorgeous Jul 18 00:08:12 and the black color is tight Jul 18 00:08:17 love the black Jul 18 00:09:30 thewtex_, there is a bug with the touchscreen if you have it in landscape mode Jul 18 00:09:43 all touches register way too far to the left Jul 18 00:09:44 guh, the saga continues Jul 18 00:09:51 I went to the AT&T store and found a geeky guy to help me Jul 18 00:10:02 all of the SIMs they have are of the not working variety Jul 18 00:10:20 Collected errors: * Failed to download http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/libehal0_0.1.0.042+cvs20080716-r5.02_armv4t.ipk, error 404 Jul 18 00:10:21 so it's basically not possible to use the FR with AT&T in the US without getting a SIM on ebay and persuading them to transfer your account over somehow Jul 18 00:10:35 that's what I get when I run 'opkg -test upgrade' Jul 18 00:10:49 okay.. the qtopia kbd is neat. .. but how do I enter things like space enter and - ? Jul 18 00:10:52 how can i have multiple images to boot from simultaneously? Jul 18 00:10:52 cjb: NOT TRUE! Jul 18 00:11:04 my WIM worked out of the box Jul 18 00:11:06 SIM* Jul 18 00:11:13 I have AT&T and it works fine with my freerunner Jul 18 00:11:17 thx peepsalot Jul 18 00:11:21 * chillywilly too Jul 18 00:11:29 what model SIMs do you have? Jul 18 00:11:33 gmaxwell: the black keyboarrd? Jul 18 00:11:42 cjb: 3g...it's relatively new. Jul 18 00:11:42 no idea ;P Jul 18 00:11:52 I guess I should restate as "all the SIMs that the friendly dude at the AT&T store was willing to let me try didn't work" Jul 18 00:11:54 MadTBone: me too Jul 18 00:11:57 * chillywilly does not have a 3g sim Jul 18 00:12:15 lpotter, Yes.. with the zoom letters Jul 18 00:12:18 MadTBone: it has a model number on it.. some of them work, and some of them don't, and only the model numbers that don't work were at the store Jul 18 00:12:45 nice.. the opkg upgrade bricked my phone... ;-) Jul 18 00:12:55 cjb: ahh...mine worked with no probs...let me check my model num.... Jul 18 00:13:01 impossible Jul 18 00:13:08 reflash it ;P Jul 18 00:13:13 toggles: bricked, or just made it need reflashing? Jul 18 00:13:22 MadTBone: it's the four digits + one letter on the front Jul 18 00:13:24 you can't brick it unless you fsck the nor flsh up with the debug board, AFAIK Jul 18 00:13:43 and even then you can fix it Jul 18 00:13:44 reflash.. Jul 18 00:14:15 cjb: by front, do you mean side w/ contacts? Jul 18 00:14:25 hm, I forget which Jul 18 00:14:25 chillywilly: so the only way to truely brick it would be to physically damage the pcb? Jul 18 00:14:56 people use the term "brick" way too liberally these days ;) Jul 18 00:15:03 cjb: I have 71234G ... then underneath that3022 Jul 18 00:15:23 how about h0rked ;P Jul 18 00:15:28 MadTBone: that's the type I just picked up -- sounds like some work and some don't. :/ Jul 18 00:15:50 any of you know how to add ringtones to asu? or how to set the default ring tone? Jul 18 00:16:04 actually, the wiki already says that some work and some don't for that type: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT Jul 18 00:16:34 gmaxwell: slide your finger down to change caps/symbols Jul 18 00:17:02 gmaxwell: qtopia has help docs :) Jul 18 00:17:06 hold you finger on one to soecofy that and not try to guess Jul 18 00:17:07 cjb: might it have something to do with having the sim in another phone, registered on the network, prior to being in the GTA02? Jul 18 00:17:29 lpotter: you guys should make the keyboard as wide as possible ;P Jul 18 00:17:41 use as much realestate as you can :) Jul 18 00:18:27 MadTBone: doesn't seem to; I have another phone here that I tried it in. But I'll try that again, and try reseating it some more. Jul 18 00:18:32 (The error is "registration denied".) Jul 18 00:19:04 the bug on it says that Texas Instruments gave OM a GSM firmware that doesn't support lots of 3G cards Jul 18 00:19:52 chillywilly: doesnt need to be as it can tell relatively where your finger is Jul 18 00:20:08 i.e. jus thave to be close Jul 18 00:20:17 it was designed for fingertouch Jul 18 00:20:48 cjb: if you're talking about #666, make sure that you check the timestamps on the comments. The original firmware problem was fixed during the GTA01 days. Jul 18 00:20:48 lpotter: sure but using more realestate makes it easier to use, IMHO Jul 18 00:21:07 lpotter: it's pretty sweet though Jul 18 00:21:38 apparenly, opkg update fails a signature check... Jul 18 00:21:51 yes Jul 18 00:22:03 chillywilly: but th eneo has deep bevels and some fingers are big and fat Jul 18 00:22:06 i'm confused about flashing the images on here. does each image have a corresponding kernel or can the same kernel run these different ones? Jul 18 00:22:08 mmontour: I don't think it was fixed, though. Jul 18 00:22:35 The Freerunner problems may be any or all of: mechanical (different SIM holder), electrical (some suggestions that 1.8V SIMs are affected but 2.9V are OK), or firmware Jul 18 00:22:36 I mean, it clearly wasn't fixed. The bug is "some 3G SIMs don't work", and the current behavior is "some 3G SIMs don't work". Jul 18 00:22:48 lpotter: seems I get a 404 on some package when I ran 'opkg -test upgrade' Jul 18 00:23:01 cjb: it mauy have been fixed for a subset of the broken SIMs. Jul 18 00:23:02 * Failed to download http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/libehal0_0.1.0.042+cvs20080716-r5.02_armv4t.ipk, error 404 Jul 18 00:23:13 * chillywilly loads the url... Jul 18 00:23:19 SpeedEvil: maybe, but the bug wasn't marked fixed, and there's no mention of that firmware actually being shipped. Jul 18 00:23:32 Ah. Jul 18 00:23:40 anyone else geting this 404 when running an upgrade? Jul 18 00:23:50 the file is definitely not on the webserver Jul 18 00:24:39 cjb: Michael Shiloh had the fixed firmware for GTA01 and would upgrade your phone if you mailed it to him. Jul 18 00:24:55 oh this is exceptionally lame.. Qtopia mediaplayer doesn't appear to play Vorbis files. wtf. Jul 18 00:25:16 bah Jul 18 00:25:28 any media players that look decent in asu? Jul 18 00:25:41 does qtopia run X? Jul 18 00:25:58 it should play audio ogg Jul 18 00:26:04 chillywilly, No, I told you this before. Jul 18 00:26:05 or are you stuck with apps built specifically for it? Jul 18 00:26:17 gmaxwell: relax Jul 18 00:26:22 lpotter, Odd. S'not. Jul 18 00:27:05 chillywilly, sorry, Didn't intend to come off that way.. and actually I told infinyte, not you. :) Jul 18 00:27:27 ok well that's one minus then Jul 18 00:27:41 it seems to take longer to start up to me Jul 18 00:27:42 chillywilly, ASU ports qtopia to X. Jul 18 00:27:46 bu it runs quicker Jul 18 00:27:52 ic Jul 18 00:28:03 whats the wifi app in qtopia that was previously mentioned? Jul 18 00:28:11 um Jul 18 00:28:20 main menu -> settings -> internet Jul 18 00:28:23 chillywilly: there's a "cvs20080717" of that file on buildhost now. Jul 18 00:28:33 * chillywilly has to fix his openwrt install before he can really try Jul 18 00:29:05 mmontour: well this image wants to reference something that doesn't exist I guess Jul 18 00:29:37 try another update, or wait a while for the system to sort itself out, I guess Jul 18 00:29:54 ooh holy crap it worked Jul 18 00:30:00 the sim? Jul 18 00:30:04 I have to say. .. icons in qtopia are a little confusing Jul 18 00:30:07 yeah Jul 18 00:30:12 after not working for a long time first Jul 18 00:30:13 tell me Jul 18 00:30:15 which sim? Jul 18 00:30:18 so I dunno if I'm gonna be able to reproduce Jul 18 00:30:21 71234 G Jul 18 00:30:26 att? Jul 18 00:30:34 yes Jul 18 00:30:35 anyone know how to disable eth0? My battery life blows Jul 18 00:30:47 qtopia Jul 18 00:30:52 ifdown eth0 ? Jul 18 00:30:59 i've a nonfunctional 71234g/3022 Jul 18 00:30:59 it says "not configured" or something Jul 18 00:31:05 is this what you have? Jul 18 00:31:45 budfive, cjb, did you guys trying fiddling with the location of the SIM card? I have a 7300g and it doesn't register unless it's in the exact right place Jul 18 00:31:54 the contacts don't match well Jul 18 00:31:56 freerunnin: yes Jul 18 00:32:02 freerunnin: that might be it Jul 18 00:32:20 can you explain what you mean? i've looked closely. 6 of the 8 pins are dead center on the pads Jul 18 00:32:28 the other two don't do anything, as far as i can tell Jul 18 00:32:36 budfive: I swapped for a "d", which has sort of worked once Jul 18 00:32:53 budfive: where do the other two make contact? Any chance they are shorting out to something else? Jul 18 00:33:05 budfive, i just locked the SIM down normally in the correct position then used my fingernail to nudge it around a little bit. I nudged it VERY slightly down and it works Jul 18 00:33:11 in fact i've another phone that doesn't even have the extra two pins. Blocking these extra pins on the freerunner didn't change anything, which makes me believe even more that there are a red herring Jul 18 00:33:27 My GTA01 and my Nokia 3500 only have 6 pins so I don't know why they're even there on the Freerunner Jul 18 00:33:49 i'm 99% sure the extra two pins are irrelevant Jul 18 00:33:52 they could be there for future revisions? or maybe older sims Jul 18 00:33:55 who knows Jul 18 00:34:04 and I'm free.....freeee....ruuuuuuniiin' Jul 18 00:34:08 haha Jul 18 00:34:22 sim cards are part of a larger smartcard standard. some other smartcard devices use the extra pins. Jul 18 00:34:33 Is it an issue with the holder not applying enough pressure for some of the pins to make contact, rather than where they are centered? Jul 18 00:34:55 cjb, were you trying something different when it began to work, or was it random luck? Jul 18 00:35:00 mmontour, if so, slipping in some paper might help. Jul 18 00:35:09 did gps software fix make it into latest daily? Jul 18 00:35:36 budfive: random Jul 18 00:35:50 cjb: great :) Jul 18 00:36:02 budfive: as long as it keeps working.. :) Jul 18 00:36:07 cjb, where are you? Jul 18 00:36:10 Boston, MA Jul 18 00:36:22 I saw one picture that showed distinct marks on the contact pads on one side of the SIM but not on the other. Can't remember where I saw it though (wiki/ML/?) Jul 18 00:36:49 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:Carriers/ATT Jul 18 00:37:07 cjb, somebody on the wiki claims that an att store in santa monica gave him a 71234(O)/4022 that works. The Pasadena store gave me the 3022, that doesn't work Jul 18 00:37:22 i think I saw something on trac, let me find it Jul 18 00:37:24 so it seems like it may be worth it to call different att stores Jul 18 00:37:25 sounds like: Jul 18 00:37:28 * the FR has 8 pins Jul 18 00:37:33 * the SIM has 6 pins Jul 18 00:37:37 also a 4022 can be had on ebay for $4 Jul 18 00:37:46 * the last two FR pins stop the 6 SIM pins from connecting Jul 18 00:37:47 heh what do the stores say when you ask for sims with certain codes? Jul 18 00:37:54 someone hacked their FR to have less pins :( Jul 18 00:38:05 oh, not quite Jul 18 00:38:09 they twisted the pins a little Jul 18 00:38:11 to connect with the SIM Jul 18 00:38:29 .. and it didn't work Jul 18 00:38:33 cjb, budfive, did you see this? towards the bottom someone posted some pics: http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/666 Jul 18 00:40:22 well, hold on. do any of you see any misalignment of the 6 "normal" pins? Jul 18 00:40:29 or is it only the extra 2 Jul 18 00:40:30 ? Jul 18 00:40:38 I didn't look Jul 18 00:40:41 and now I'm scared to :) Jul 18 00:40:45 my 6 are dead center Jul 18 00:40:55 how can you even tell how it's aligned? xray? ;) Jul 18 00:41:12 > I've just noticed, my Cingular branded 3G sim (7300G 3021) will not work if it's seated correctly; but will work, and can be locked into place, seated slight off. If I push the sim a little bit in the direction of the notch, it seems to work. Jul 18 00:41:22 put tape over the contacts, and insert the sim. then you can see the dimples in the tape Jul 18 00:41:43 cjb: i had to do that too Jul 18 00:41:51 except mine is tmobile Jul 18 00:42:14 so some people are consistently seeing their sim work when seated improperly and not work when seated properly? Jul 18 00:42:22 it's not random? Jul 18 00:42:23 budfive, yes for me Jul 18 00:42:44 ok. can you please do the tape test i described above to see where the pins are impacting? Jul 18 00:42:49 although it's pretty annoying to have to get that "sweet spot" Jul 18 00:43:06 man, i wish the openmoko schematics were open. grumble Jul 18 00:43:16 freerunnin: i got mine in place and left it there :) Jul 18 00:43:59 haha, yeah same here. Jul 18 00:44:01 budfive: they've been quite good about answering specific questions about the schematics. Jul 18 00:44:27 around how many bb packages are built in the ASU image? Jul 18 00:44:27 I can see that there's 5400 tasks Jul 18 00:44:37 who do i ask? Jul 18 00:44:39 s/there's/there are/ Jul 18 00:44:40 kelvie_work meant: I can see that there are 5400 tasks Jul 18 00:44:54 i want to know what if anything the extra pins do Jul 18 00:44:56 good to see the regex engine still works Jul 18 00:44:57 budfive, can't find any tape around here! sorry man. If you'll be around 1pm-4pm (US central time) i'll be at work where I can try it Jul 18 00:45:15 budfive, interface for the mind-ray programmer. Jul 18 00:45:22 ha Jul 18 00:45:31 s/ere/ar/ Jul 18 00:45:43 aw Jul 18 00:45:47 ok. i'll leave irc on, and read the log Jul 18 00:47:02 http://pinouts.ru/Memory/SmartCardIso_pinout.shtml Jul 18 00:47:08 extra pins aren't supposed to do anything Jul 18 00:48:24 that doesn't make much sense, why would they go through the trouble of manufacturing those extra pins in? Jul 18 00:48:33 not that I don't believe you, I'm just curious Jul 18 00:48:48 "Reserved for future use" Jul 18 00:48:50 ? Jul 18 00:49:26 and i bet some other smartcard devices use these; just not sim cards. and the freerunner uses a general smartcard connector Jul 18 00:50:54 budfive: you could probably ask jOERG_rw (not sure who else here has access to schematics - maybe roh?) Jul 18 00:51:14 roh does Jul 18 00:51:22 how do I set up a bootable image on microSD? Jul 18 00:52:11 ok. does anybody know the why the schematics aren't open? does fic own them? what's the deal? Jul 18 00:52:30 Fundamentally, anyone could take them and make a batch of a thousand. Jul 18 00:52:41 budfive: there's issues with IP of chips we are using Jul 18 00:52:41 Other open hardware folks haven't had issues with that.... Jul 18 00:52:42 Without having any of that nasty development work to do. Jul 18 00:53:04 gmaxwell: openmoko is intended as a software/hardware company though. Jul 18 00:53:06 Elphel and USRP schematics are available (and the elphel ones are very complete) and yet no one has bothered doing a production run. Jul 18 00:53:10 ok. so only openmoko employees have access? Jul 18 00:53:24 or people who signed an nda? Jul 18 00:53:28 ATM yes Jul 18 00:53:35 as well Jul 18 00:53:37 gmaxwell: if someone copies their hardware, there is no money to dev software. Jul 18 00:53:45 thanks Jul 18 00:54:21 SpeedEvil, the scaling issue prevents small scale copying.. goodwill should preserve income in the case of larger scale copying. Jul 18 00:54:23 we're sorting things out on this. maybe we can be more open in future Jul 18 00:54:42 Probably the bigger risk is that someone makes an improved copy (faster SOC or something) .. that might be a bit messier. Jul 18 00:54:47 gmaxwell: small scale - sure. Jul 18 00:54:57 make the specs GPL :p Jul 18 00:55:05 er schematics Jul 18 00:55:15 this way if they are better.. we can use them Jul 18 00:55:19 imho, om is already amazingly open, especially for a cell phone manufacturer Jul 18 00:55:25 There is precedent for this, in any case: http://www3.elphel.com/ Jul 18 00:55:28 jOERG_rw: can you tell us about the two extra pins on the Freeruner SIM holder? Are they N/C, connected to ground, or ??? Jul 18 00:55:45 SpeedEvil: china copies everything they think is worth the effort. They don't need our schem to do so ;-) Jul 18 00:55:52 is there any really sensitive IP in there? in theory, i can ask any question and you're not legally prevented from answering, right? Jul 18 00:55:57 Joerg :D Jul 18 00:56:08 moment please, have a look Jul 18 00:57:00 http://wiki.elphel.com/index.php?title=10353 < notice links to complete schematics and gerber files. Jul 18 00:57:22 we have 8 contacts at sim-socket IIRC. all of them are connected Jul 18 00:57:29 I've been reading the hardware mailing list for a couple hours today :) Jul 18 00:57:38 I also enjoy the COGs spreadsheet with the complete parts costs. :) Jul 18 00:57:55 Is there a microsd gps software patch available yet? :] Jul 18 00:58:13 joerg: every single other cell phone i've ever seen only has 6 pins, and a pinout i've found on the next claims the extra two pins are not connected on the sim Jul 18 00:58:54 I would think that they have good reason for not releasing the schematics yet. Jul 18 00:58:54 well dunno. I see 8 contacts in my schem, all of tthem used Jul 18 00:59:20 you didn't design it, i take it? Jul 18 00:59:46 can you see what the two pins on the long side with the notch do? Jul 18 01:00:17 these pins are missing from other cell phones, and impact between the pads on the sim, instead in the middle Jul 18 01:00:18 budfive: nah, joined OM 3months ago! :-D Jul 18 01:00:23 :) Jul 18 01:00:33 GTA01 only had 6. http://gsmserver.com/pinout/sim.php and http://pinouts.ru/Memory/SmartCardIso_pinout.shtml also only show 6 used. Jul 18 01:01:57 moment please, have a look Jul 18 01:02:21 the freerunner shorts Vcc to Vpp for some reason, while a different phone i've tried does not Jul 18 01:02:28 blocking out vpp doesn't fix it Jul 18 01:03:08 g'evening freerunners Jul 18 01:03:20 and I'm free.....freeee....ruuuuuuniiin' Jul 18 01:03:21 ah, sorry everybody Jul 18 01:03:31 was looking at sim, not sd Jul 18 01:03:41 we're talking about sim Jul 18 01:04:20 so for sim I was correct Jul 18 01:04:35 even GTA01 has EIGHT contacts iin schem Jul 18 01:04:57 nah, error again Jul 18 01:05:00 * jOERG_rw reboot Jul 18 01:05:11 getting some messages in /var/log/messages that look a little disturbing: "Bad block table found..." and "CRCFAIL 0x1a3f" Jul 18 01:05:14 sd has 8 contacts Jul 18 01:05:16 anything to worry about? Jul 18 01:05:39 sim has 6 contacts used on GTA01 and 02 Jul 18 01:05:59 ok, so gta02 only uses 6 of 8 sim pads? Jul 18 01:06:14 also, can you confirm that vcc is shorted to vpp (pins 1 and 5)? Jul 18 01:06:15 budfive: yep Jul 18 01:06:33 safire: I've been meaning to ask about that too... I saw something about that in QEMU, and during boot with two different images. Jul 18 01:06:50 budfive: nope. C5 is on GND Jul 18 01:07:02 C4, C8 NC Jul 18 01:08:21 i was curious because nothing is very stable, got an AT&T 3G sim, it registers but can't successfully make a call out - it dials, but then the dialer crashes. Once the call got connected enough to my other cell to see the phone number, but that's about it Jul 18 01:09:53 jOERG_rw: Are those numbered as shown on http://pinouts.ru/connector/8_pin_SMARTCARD_special_connector.shtml ? Jul 18 01:10:31 no idea. just see the schem here Jul 18 01:10:54 usually numbering is consistent over manufacturers Jul 18 01:11:02 I think your "C4" is "7" and your "C5" is "4" Jul 18 01:11:11 there's some numbering discrepancy Jul 18 01:11:28 as shown in http://pinouts.ru/Memory/SmartCardIso_pinout.shtml Jul 18 01:11:39 i'm seeing 1 and 5 shorted on my freerunner (tested with a meter) Jul 18 01:12:03 and 7,8 are the extra pins (not appearing in other phones) Jul 18 01:12:17 7,8 also impact between several pads (all of which could be unused) Jul 18 01:12:39 That would be C1 and C6 in jOERG_rw's notation if I am correct (the shorted VCC/VPP) Jul 18 01:13:03 for what it's worth, my other phone doesn't short vcc to vpp. blocking out vpp with tape didn't change anything, though Jul 18 01:14:50 budfive: that's 1 + 6 that are shorted in schem Jul 18 01:15:09 this is V_SIM Jul 18 01:15:13 aka VDD Jul 18 01:15:43 is it possible to run the openmoko-dialer from an ssh session? can't seem to find what display to send it to Jul 18 01:16:32 Joerg :) Jul 18 01:16:44 In gta02 what you call VPP is named SIM_MCLK Jul 18 01:16:57 Dave: ;-) Jul 18 01:17:04 I rebooted without opening the case, didn't seem to register this time :/ Jul 18 01:17:06 only 3 months!? Jul 18 01:17:07 my phone is froze Jul 18 01:17:15 now what? Jul 18 01:17:22 joerg: ok... and sim_mclk is shorted to vdd? Jul 18 01:17:23 Dave: yep Jul 18 01:17:26 Erm, is it bad if you get this message?: dfu_download error -110 Jul 18 01:17:31 budfive: yep Jul 18 01:17:32 Joerg, I read everything from the hardware ml since april today :D Jul 18 01:17:38 got caught up on everything Jul 18 01:17:53 and really enjoyed reading your insightful posts :D Jul 18 01:18:06 Dave: [hw] has low trafffic Jul 18 01:18:17 Though a number of hardware issues still concern me Jul 18 01:18:28 joerg: does it make sense that this clock signal is held at vdd? or it's not obvious? Jul 18 01:18:33 Dave: welcome to the club Jul 18 01:18:34 The SIM pinout page that I'm looking at names them (in jOERG_rw's order): VCC, RESET, CLOCK, NC, GND, VPP, I/O, NC Jul 18 01:19:25 budfive: dunno spec of simcard Jul 18 01:19:43 joerg: ok. let me try some random stuff Jul 18 01:19:45 Also, how do you know what new uBoot to use/or should you just not update uBoot at all? Jul 18 01:20:00 budfive: like? Jul 18 01:20:10 yay! had my first call. quality apparently okay :) Jul 18 01:20:10 :D Jul 18 01:20:13 * cjb happy Jul 18 01:20:38 super happy Jul 18 01:21:01 Yeah, I notice some buzzing on both ends - sounds like RFI from the GSM modem. Jul 18 01:21:25 o.O Jul 18 01:21:36 Should be able to filter it out OK. Jul 18 01:24:17 i cant figure out how to unlach the SD holder Jul 18 01:24:54 up got it Jul 18 01:25:16 Yeah, the SD and SIM holders are completely bass ackwards. Jul 18 01:25:54 Anyone else get error -110 when flashing? Jul 18 01:26:01 rivalarrival: :-D Jul 18 01:26:15 They're terrible :( Jul 18 01:26:26 Ideally I'd like both to be externally slot-loading Jul 18 01:26:40 so they can fall out/be stolen Jul 18 01:26:45 No Jul 18 01:26:46 :P Jul 18 01:26:49 So you can easily swap them Jul 18 01:26:54 Dave: me too Jul 18 01:26:57 :D Jul 18 01:27:01 * Dave hugs joerg Jul 18 01:27:04 any tips on how to start debugging a crash? been searching the wiki for a while now, don't see much help Jul 18 01:27:04 love the resolution Jul 18 01:27:07 alas PD doesn't think so Jul 18 01:27:11 Yeah :( Jul 18 01:27:16 oh well Jul 18 01:27:25 teeny tiny characters Jul 18 01:27:26 crazy aftermarket modifications, anyone? :D Jul 18 01:27:34 so *cute* Jul 18 01:27:43 jOERG_rw: I'm not really complaining, I'm just saying that I've never had to get out a manual to figure out how to open a sim card holder before. Jul 18 01:28:05 heehee Jul 18 01:28:07 cute Jul 18 01:28:09 rivalarrival: XD Jul 18 01:28:24 rivalarrival: had to take lessons to learn how to do it ;-) Jul 18 01:28:57 Need a fricken bachelors degree to install the cards. :) Jul 18 01:29:00 really weird those little suckers Jul 18 01:29:18 but whatever, it's cool. Jul 18 01:31:08 hm dunno why my wpa_supplicant file isnt working Jul 18 01:31:35 omg i hate terminals keypad Jul 18 01:31:48 i want a real keyboard Jul 18 01:32:38 Yeah, I saw a wishlist entry about an expansion back... I'd love a slideout keyboard. Jul 18 01:33:05 expansion back? Jul 18 01:33:41 no i just want a onscreen but not a fricken phone keypad for shell Jul 18 01:33:59 and some up/down arrows aswell Jul 18 01:34:00 I think there is one. o_O Jul 18 01:34:16 there's a full keyboard Jul 18 01:34:21 is my best bet building from scratch, or is there a way to enable more debug / log messages? Jul 18 01:34:24 It's vaporware - basically, instead of the blank back cover, something smart... like a keyboard, camera, extra batteries, etc. Jul 18 01:34:41 kd8ikt: ctrl-keys ^G ^G ^J Jul 18 01:34:53 how about a stylus holder?;P Jul 18 01:35:11 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Expansion_Back Jul 18 01:35:19 i got one in my jacket ;-) Jul 18 01:35:27 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Complete_QWERTY_Keyboard_On_The_Freerunner Jul 18 01:35:41 and onotherr one at end of my arms :-D Jul 18 01:35:53 Ugh.. Jul 18 01:36:02 I can't flash mah Freerunner. :< Jul 18 01:36:13 how come? Jul 18 01:36:22 110? Jul 18 01:36:27 I dunno, it keeps giving me thi.. Yeah that. Jul 18 01:36:51 Iinfinyte: it gives you what? Jul 18 01:37:06 gues that's sth with usb, maybe rights. seen this before. can't remember Jul 18 01:37:09 Starting download: [##########dfu_download error -110 Jul 18 01:37:11 Error during download Jul 18 01:37:20 no bad thing - just do it right Jul 18 01:37:28 Iinfinyte: do you have to keep pressing the aux button to keep it alive? Jul 18 01:37:29 maybe? Jul 18 01:37:35 * cjb did with gta01 Jul 18 01:37:36 HUH? Jul 18 01:37:38 No, it stays on. Jul 18 01:37:45 ok Jul 18 01:38:03 jOERG_rw: uboot would turn off after a long idle in the boot menu, even if there was a dfu ongoing Jul 18 01:38:19 jOERG_rw: on the neo1973. you'd hit the aux button every minute to keep it alive. sounds like that's been fixed. Jul 18 01:38:21 Iinfinyte: tried another usb port? Jul 18 01:38:32 Nope, I'll do that. Jul 18 01:38:33 cjb: yea know that. but never seen 110 during flash started Jul 18 01:38:42 Iinfinyte: anything in /var/log/messages? Does the device loose connection while flashing? Jul 18 01:39:01 Lemme see. Jul 18 01:39:29 #define ETIMEDOUT 110 /* Connection timed out */ Jul 18 01:40:02 Iinfinyte: don't use a hub. disconnect other devices Jul 18 01:40:06 so really...no help for debugging dialer? is the dialer from ASU or FSO different from openmoko-dialer? Jul 18 01:40:16 don't use powersaving on laptop... Jul 18 01:41:01 So, I can't have a USB mouse and keyboard plugged in? Jul 18 01:41:14 not sure Jul 18 01:41:32 doesn't make a problem on my setup Jul 18 01:41:38 YMMV Jul 18 01:41:47 I've got about 6 USB devices plugged in, plus the FR - no problem here. Jul 18 01:41:54 LoRez, bravo Jul 18 01:42:03 Has an "official" kernel with the software fix for the microSD-GPS interference problem been posted anywhere yet? Jul 18 01:42:29 see [community] mail from Andy Jul 18 01:42:44 about 15h old Jul 18 01:42:49 Hmm Jul 18 01:43:00 where does the stable kernel he pushed to live? Jul 18 01:43:06 jOERG_rw :Thanks! Jul 18 01:43:11 Should I upgrade the Uboot? Jul 18 01:43:12 (in zimage form) Jul 18 01:43:45 Iinfinyte: no bad idea, but won't fix 110 Jul 18 01:44:05 Ah. Jul 18 01:44:20 Which Uboot would I have to get anyways? Jul 18 01:44:37 recent one? ;-) Jul 18 01:45:03 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080718/ Jul 18 01:45:06 The one at the bottom? Jul 18 01:45:53 looks good to me Jul 18 01:46:50 but beware: flashing u-boot and getting 110 brings you 1 step closer to doom Jul 18 01:47:14 try flashing rootfs first Jul 18 01:47:19 Ah, you can get 110 when flashing Uboot too? Jul 18 01:47:33 guess so Jul 18 01:47:49 Ah. Well I'll try to fix that first then. Jul 18 01:48:02 good idea ;-) Jul 18 01:48:05 so, is everyone running the qtopia stack these days? which image should I get? Jul 18 01:48:28 Hmm, also. When my computer says: dfu_download error -110 Jul 18 01:48:28 The phone says: End of write exceeds partition end Jul 18 01:48:31 That mean anything to you? Jul 18 01:48:54 huh Jul 18 01:48:57 for sure Jul 18 01:49:04 suggests the image is larger than the partition you're flashing it to Jul 18 01:49:11 are you trying to flash a nand image into the kernel partition, perhaps? Jul 18 01:49:14 you probably flashed wrong partition Jul 18 01:49:21 o.O Jul 18 01:49:29 :) Jul 18 01:49:38 Lesse. Jul 18 01:49:43 check -a parameter (think it was -a) Jul 18 01:49:53 sudo ./dfu-util -a kernel -R -D openmoko-devel-image-om-gta02.tar.gz Jul 18 01:49:59 That's what I was doin' Jul 18 01:50:09 -a kernel!!!!! Jul 18 01:50:11 brandy new at&t sim worked flawlessly Jul 18 01:50:25 took a few hours to register, but now it registers fine Jul 18 01:50:26 need -a rootfs Jul 18 01:50:35 penguinator: what kind of sim? Jul 18 01:50:47 I thought you had to do both? Jul 18 01:51:01 budfive: what determines what kind of sim it is? Jul 18 01:51:02 and you can't flash a tar.gz at all!!!! Jul 18 01:51:07 Oh. >__>; Jul 18 01:51:19 penguinator: was it a 3G sim? Jul 18 01:51:33 Iinfinyte: haha Jul 18 01:51:36 Iinfinyte: RTFM! ;-) Jul 18 01:51:42 safire: it says 3G on it yes Jul 18 01:51:45 Iinfinyte: that's a pretty epic fail, I'm afraid Jul 18 01:51:55 penguinator: interesting, I guess that's the same as mine Jul 18 01:52:02 Well, I admit I thought it was odd that it pointed to the .. Well here. Jul 18 01:52:03 penguinator: wasn't working for a long time, seems working now Jul 18 01:52:10 Look for files of the form: Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-YYYYMMDD-om-gta02.rootfs.tar.gz and: openmoko-devel-image-om-gta02.tar.gz Jul 18 01:52:15 Is what it says on the Wiki Jul 18 01:52:19 hmm..what image are you running? Jul 18 01:52:27 can you get the sku and the model numbers? a 5-digit number, a 4-digit number and a single letter next to the gold pads on the sim Jul 18 01:52:42 cjb: how long? i got mine at lunch today, and only got it to connect saying at&t around 1800 Jul 18 01:52:44 Iinfinyte: you need a kernel (uImage-xxx.bin) and a rootfs (.jffs2 for flash) Jul 18 01:52:59 Iinfinyte: seems you read wrong § of wiki Jul 18 01:53:35 penguinator: got it at 1920 or so, didn't work at first, now working at 2153 Jul 18 01:53:35 Ahh. Kekeke. Well lesse.. Jul 18 01:54:10 mine is 71234 D / 2022 - only sim I've tried and dialer crashes when i call out Jul 18 01:54:13 cjb: seems like it takes a few hours to get setup? Jul 18 01:54:19 penguinator: worked in my other phone Jul 18 01:54:28 cjb: oh, hmm Jul 18 01:54:35 safire: how long have you had it? Jul 18 01:54:37 penguinator: my intuition is that it's coincidence or the positioning inside the SIM Jul 18 01:54:40 slot Jul 18 01:54:45 3 days Jul 18 01:54:55 I first tried a SIM that I've been using in another phone for 7 months Jul 18 01:55:00 and it didn't work repeatedly Jul 18 01:55:00 cjb: interesting Jul 18 01:55:15 So I should get.. openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-om-gta02.jffs2 for the rootfs.. But what's the latest kernel file for ASU? Jul 18 01:55:17 and then got the new SIM, didn't work either, happens to be working at the moment if I give it like five mins to register Jul 18 01:55:28 Iinfinyte: you probably want the one with the gps/sd fix Jul 18 01:55:33 does "Registering..." go away? Jul 18 01:55:40 safire: yes, it's replaced with the operator name Jul 18 01:55:48 even after I get bars in the top right, menu still says "Registering.." Jul 18 01:55:52 Iinfinyte: which is the "latest stable" kernel, but I don't know where that lives Jul 18 01:56:01 safire: that means it can talk to the network, but that the network didn't let you in Jul 18 01:56:09 safire: you can run libgsmd-tool -m shell, type "r" Jul 18 01:56:18 safire: when mine wasn't working, it said Netreg: Permission denied Jul 18 01:56:30 rebooting...once it comes up i'll try that Jul 18 01:56:31 if yours does too, try repositioning the SIM Jul 18 01:56:35 while gsmd is running, right? Jul 18 01:58:21 I usually do while turned off Jul 18 01:58:24 because I run on battery Jul 18 01:58:34 if you do it while turned on, I think you want to restart gsmd afterwards Jul 18 01:58:46 Lesse.. Jul 18 01:58:48 Hey wait. Jul 18 01:58:50 Iinfinyte: kernel is same for all rootfs I think Jul 18 01:58:54 Uhm, is there only ONE Kernel? Jul 18 01:59:05 Cause I've been looking for Stack specific ones. Jul 18 01:59:18 Ahh. Okay, well that makes sense. >_> Jul 18 01:59:25 nah, the stacks run on same machine ;-) Jul 18 01:59:26 anyone flashed uboot? dfu-util said a-ok, but my date on the uboot screen saus may 9th 08? Jul 18 01:59:30 jOERG_rw: any idea where I can get a stable kernel containing Andy's fix? Jul 18 01:59:49 see [community] mail from Andy Jul 18 01:59:50 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080718/ Jul 18 01:59:51 yes...i get registration denied Jul 18 01:59:56 uImage-om-gta02-latest.bin Must be it Jul 18 02:00:06 toggles: are you booting the NAND or the NOR copy of u-boot? Jul 18 02:00:07 jOERG_rw: it says he pushed it to the stable kernel. it doesn't say where I can download the stable kernel. Jul 18 02:00:18 Iinfinyte: yepp Jul 18 02:00:43 mmontour: whoa.. ok, i missed that, i just hold down the aux button and press power Jul 18 02:00:57 Kay, I'll download these and see how they work. BRB Jul 18 02:01:01 skim the wiki. I'm not in this Jul 18 02:01:18 ok :) Jul 18 02:01:19 cjp: If opkg update && opkg upgrade doesn't do it, it's not really the "stable" kernel AFAIK Jul 18 02:01:41 adsllc: *shrug* I have no idea Jul 18 02:01:48 other folks see tons of "SECOND ADCRDY" messages? Jul 18 02:02:05 safire: nope. where do you see those? Jul 18 02:02:12 safire: never hard of 'em - when do you see them? Jul 18 02:02:15 cjb: "stable" is a branch in the kernel git repository (git.openmoko.org). Whatever's in there should be used for the next daily build, which will end up on buildhost.openmoko.org. Jul 18 02:02:18 on boot Jul 18 02:02:25 and then periodically there after Jul 18 02:02:41 mmontour: Thanks! Do you think there's already a build containing the stuff Andy pushed? Jul 18 02:02:44 always preceded by "pcf50633_irq: entering(irq=53, pcf=c7d34c00): scheduling work" Jul 18 02:02:56 safire: that means you pressed the power button, I think? Jul 18 02:02:59 safire: I may have seen that. Did X die too? Jul 18 02:03:09 no Jul 18 02:03:16 safire: i think the are debug,essages from the mmc-driver Jul 18 02:03:56 cjb: give it another 6h. should not take more than 24h anyway Jul 18 02:03:58 so, on the order of 200 of these during boot time Jul 18 02:04:21 oh, it specifies the HEAD git commit ID that it built Jul 18 02:04:23 that seems quite excessive...what does the mmc-driver control? Jul 18 02:04:26 uImage-2.6.24+git21+642cbda5f3b7e7a61512426e1d30a41ab4691123-r0-om-gta02.bin Jul 18 02:04:41 cjb: so I think actual build should be finished by now Jul 18 02:05:07 cool, it has latest Jul 18 02:05:10 cjb: look at the timestamp Jul 18 02:05:13 safire: debugging messages from the PMU, should be harmless. "mmc" is the SD-card Jul 18 02:05:21 jOERG_rw: the git commit ID is much more specific. Jul 18 02:05:29 and matches up with the topmost commit on http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=shortlog;h=stable Jul 18 02:05:40 so I know that that uImage does indeed contain the SD fix. great! Jul 18 02:05:47 ok, so here you go Jul 18 02:05:51 even though I have no SD card in at the present? Jul 18 02:06:30 safire: so what? Jul 18 02:06:35 The "pcf50633" messages are not related to mmc/SD. Jul 18 02:07:11 when I start tangogps, does it start gpsd and start trying to acquire a lock? Jul 18 02:07:26 It hasn't found one after a long time, but I'm in my apartment with it next to a window, so I guess it's not that surprising Jul 18 02:07:41 cjb: tangogps doesn't start gpsd - see the Getting Started wiki page for instructions on how to start it automagically. Jul 18 02:08:01 ok. it's talking okay to gpsd, so I think I already followed those instructions. Jul 18 02:08:17 safire: i dont know the pcf50633 messages (dont have a fr), i think ive just seen the SECOND ADCRDY messages on the neo with on a kernel with mmc-debug compiled in Jul 18 02:08:19 my followup question: does gpsd constantly look for a lock, or do I need to tell it to start? Jul 18 02:08:32 yeah thats the darndest thing how gps goes out the window with microsd Jul 18 02:08:43 kd8ikt: try the new kernel :) Jul 18 02:08:45 but i cant remeber the exact messages Jul 18 02:08:49 oh yea? Jul 18 02:08:56 kd8ikt: yes, there's a workaround Jul 18 02:09:04 gpsd doesn't look for a lock - the GPS chip should be doing it whenever it's powered up. Jul 18 02:09:04 does that mean i should reflash everything Jul 18 02:09:09 kd8ikt: just the kernel Jul 18 02:09:17 adsllc: ok! I see, thanks. Jul 18 02:09:22 gpsd just routes the output from the gps chip, it doesn't actually control anything. Jul 18 02:09:27 Query: I updated the uboot but the version info at the top of the phone didn't change, is that normal? Jul 18 02:10:22 http://downloads.openmoko.org/recommended/? Jul 18 02:10:24 Like I said to the other guy, check whether you're booting the NOR or the NAND version of u-boot (only the NAND can be updated without a debug board) Jul 18 02:10:31 Iinfinyte: which version info? Jul 18 02:10:32 Iinfinyte: it depends when the uboot inside your uboot image was built Jul 18 02:10:40 Marcel: thanks...the pcf50633 and the SECOND ADCRDY messages always come together..thats why i thought they were related, i'll ignore them for now Jul 18 02:10:40 nope those are gta01 Jul 18 02:11:20 do you need to be in NOR to flash the root file system? Jul 18 02:11:21 got a link to that special kernel Jul 18 02:11:24 It says U-boot 1.3.2-moko12 (May 9 2008 - 10:28:48) Jul 18 02:11:31 Iinfinyte: ah sorry, u-bbot jeah see it's NAND, you can't flash NOR Jul 18 02:11:33 Which is what it said before I flashed it with the latest Jul 18 02:11:53 SirBob1701: nope Jul 18 02:12:00 so, how do you ask uboot to boot from NAND instead of NOR? Jul 18 02:12:05 IIRC Jul 18 02:12:05 Err, so basically it did nothing because I don't have the debug board? Jul 18 02:12:05 jOERG_rw: just regular boot works? Jul 18 02:12:22 Or do I have to boot a different way? Jul 18 02:12:44 Iinfinyte: to flash NAND you have to bbot to NOR Jul 18 02:13:02 to flash rootfs it doesn't matter IIRC Jul 18 02:13:35 straw poll: om2007.2, or qtopia? Jul 18 02:13:40 Erm, I think I have been booting to NOR Jul 18 02:13:42 Iinfinyte: you don't need debubo to flash NAND Jul 18 02:13:56 I hold the AUX, then press the Power and let go of the AUX Jul 18 02:13:58 cjb: om2007.2! Jul 18 02:14:08 cjb: 2007.2 - haven't tried qtopia - I'm not a big fan of their licensing. Jul 18 02:14:18 Iinfinyte: so now you've flashed NAND, go boot NAND and look for version Jul 18 02:14:22 you arent a fan of the gpl? Jul 18 02:14:37 Oh okay Jul 18 02:14:44 After I'm done with the rootfs thingy I shall Jul 18 02:14:57 jOERG_rw: how do you boot to nand? Jul 18 02:14:58 better do now Jul 18 02:15:13 lpooter: I'm not a fan of If you start a project using QT GPL and decide to release a commercial version later, you can't. Jul 18 02:15:14 Iinfinyte: press power, then aux Jul 18 02:16:07 lpotter: You can't "upgrade" your license. Jul 18 02:16:24 interesting, the GPS thinks I'm a street away from where I am Jul 18 02:16:36 it only has 3 satellites locked Jul 18 02:16:49 I guess it gets more precise with more sats? Jul 18 02:16:59 cjb: yep Jul 18 02:17:13 cool. Jul 18 02:17:13 cjb: mmore sat to come Jul 18 02:17:18 lpotter: Don't get me wrong - I'm a fan of the GPL and have released around 3 packages - but I like to know I can license my own code however I like without completely rewriting the UI. Jul 18 02:17:29 wait a little Jul 18 02:17:54 cjb: you need 4 sats for a 3D fix. With 3 it has to guess at your elevation Jul 18 02:18:14 which is nor? Jul 18 02:18:20 mmontour: ooh. Jul 18 02:18:28 er it says boot menu nor Jul 18 02:18:37 set console to usb? Jul 18 02:18:43 Jul 18 02:19:10 adsllc: then dont tell sales. you own the copyright to your own code, so you can license it however you want Jul 18 02:20:15 lpotter: I own my own code, but if you want to use the QT libs in a commercial project you have to have a commercial license from day 1. Jul 18 02:21:30 lpotter: I guess Trolltech sales can refuse to offer him a commercial license if he's previously used the free license. Jul 18 02:21:54 I didn't know about this, though, sounds odd. Why wouldn't they want people to upgrade from the free license to the commercial one? That sounds like.. a good business model. Jul 18 02:22:19 lpotter: if there were a compelling advantage over GTK I'd be more interested, but GTK does the job without the worry. Jul 18 02:22:20 Back Jul 18 02:22:32 And yup, I was using NOR. NAND is July 18 now. :D Jul 18 02:22:45 i doubt they would actuall yturn down a sales because of that Jul 18 02:23:09 Iinfinyte: how are you checking nand? Jul 18 02:23:14 lpotter: It's in their FAQ plain as day. I'm trying to dig it up now. Jul 18 02:23:43 lpotter: I considered it when I was developing www.vifir.org and decided it wasn't for me. Jul 18 02:23:44 no need to I work for TT Jul 18 02:24:01 cjb: accurate to one street with only 3 satellites is pretty good, I'd say Jul 18 02:24:19 so, no one going for FSO? Jul 18 02:24:30 lpotter: see here http://trolltech.com/developer/knowledgebase/123/?searchterm=license Jul 18 02:24:46 Holding Power button then pressin AUX button until it boots Jul 18 02:24:53 Any way to update the NOR? Jul 18 02:25:05 With a debug board Jul 18 02:25:21 Where is the Aux button? Jul 18 02:25:29 It's the one that isn't the power button Jul 18 02:25:32 Iinfinyte: thanks mate! Jul 18 02:25:46 Stroller: see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner Jul 18 02:25:53 adsllc: besides, why wouldd you want to put nonfree apps on a free phone? Jul 18 02:26:34 Ah! Why didn't you just say "underneath the LEDS"? Jul 18 02:26:48 which kernel is it? Jul 18 02:27:03 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080718/ Jul 18 02:27:14 lpotter: it's a matter of principle. GTK is more free to me than QT. I can go commercial with GTK if I want - I don't have that freedom with QT. Phone aside, I'm not so interested in developing the skills on a restricted platform. Jul 18 02:27:27 Stroller: I only have a GTA01. I have an Aux button, but no LEDs Jul 18 02:27:40 Bah! Jul 18 02:27:58 mmontour: so it will normally boot from nand then? only nor if you do the aux thing to save you from bricking? Jul 18 02:28:20 adsllc: lpotter's point that this is probably the wrong phone to do that with is a fine one. Jul 18 02:28:53 Yes, it should boot from NAND by default, and from NOR only if you use the magic button sequence. Jul 18 02:29:08 (but I also prefer GTK, because I made a choice to prefer it ~eight years ago when it was more free-as-in-GPL, and haven't worked with QT since.) Jul 18 02:29:18 lpotter & cjb: I don't mean to start a license flame war - QT is just dandy. He asked and I gave my opinion. They are more than welcome to license their stuff however they want! Jul 18 02:29:21 I gots me the ASU. Jul 18 02:29:26 yup :) Jul 18 02:29:47 Iinfinyte: lemme know if it's any good. om2007 seems the most complete, I guess I'm sticking with that. Jul 18 02:30:21 Yeah I dunno, I might reflash. It's kinda dull. >_> Jul 18 02:30:23 mmontour: thanks mate, appreciate the newb help Jul 18 02:30:23 And uhh.. Jul 18 02:30:27 Where's the Console? :< Jul 18 02:31:55 To get to the u-boot console, use a terminal program (minicom, cu, screen) on your host pc to connect to /dev/ttyACM0 Jul 18 02:32:22 No I mean. >_> The console in the ASU Jul 18 02:32:43 oh, sorry. Don't know. Jul 18 02:33:44 hey, does anyone know where the qtopia media player reads mp3's from?? Jul 18 02:35:28 Wahaha Jul 18 02:35:29 Zokay Jul 18 02:35:34 >_> It's mondo glitchy Jul 18 02:36:41 wow gps is working with sdcARD Jul 18 02:36:49 adsllc: actaully LGPL takes rights away from users, so it is less free Jul 18 02:36:59 kd8ikt: out of the box? Jul 18 02:37:09 latest kern Jul 18 02:37:15 Gonna go back to the good ol 2007 methinks Jul 18 02:37:17 lpotter: which rights? Jul 18 02:37:23 the one with the SD card clock disable feature? Jul 18 02:37:28 lpotter: lol Jul 18 02:37:30 adsllc: which is why its names is Lessor GPL Jul 18 02:37:36 havent qiute got a lock yet Jul 18 02:37:43 but hey i'm in the basement Jul 18 02:37:50 :) Jul 18 02:37:51 the rights to the code. Jul 18 02:38:01 getting any lock in the basement would be pretty good methinks Jul 18 02:38:05 lpotter: I disagree. The lgpl protects the rights of the developer less, hence lesser. Jul 18 02:38:15 showing 11 sats so something must be right Jul 18 02:38:32 before it just showed one and the signal never changed Jul 18 02:38:55 lpotter: GPL libraries -> only GPL code can link to it. LGPL libraries -> any code can link to it. How is LGPL restricting user rights? Jul 18 02:39:03 LGPL gives the user the right to interface their software more extensively than the GPL does Jul 18 02:39:16 for all purposes, in open source, user == developer Jul 18 02:39:55 adsllc: because it does allow proprietary apps to it, it takes the right to free open source software than GPL has Jul 18 02:40:21 Hey, I have my Freerunner plugged into my computer and it's off. It's charging right? I don't see any lights flashing or anything is why I'm asking. Jul 18 02:40:28 lpotter? Huh? Please rephrase - I don't follow what you're trying to say. Jul 18 02:40:36 lpotter: unless you want to generate massive confusion, you should probably stick to using "developer" for the guy writing a library, and "user" for the guy using the library Jul 18 02:41:00 walrustown: Massive Confusion - GO! Jul 18 02:41:33 adsllc: I'm already feeling it :) Jul 18 02:41:35 Iinfinyte: yes, charging Jul 18 02:41:40 lgpl allows proprietary software. gpl allows only gpl software. hence the use has less rights to see and modify code under the lgpl, Jul 18 02:41:44 Iinfinyte: I don't think you can take that for granted, The FR can go dead, with insufficient battery, and become unchargable Jul 18 02:42:06 adsllc: it's obviously about whose rights you're trying to maximize. GPL attempts to maximize the rights of users (and by extension, all society), not developers. Jul 18 02:42:24 lpotter: you can't really license a proprietary project under the LGPL.... Jul 18 02:42:26 if your utopia is a free society, it's GPL. if your utopia is free individuals, use LGPL. Jul 18 02:42:52 cjb: ::golf clap:: very well said. Jul 18 02:42:56 what special thing must i do to get tango to work? Jul 18 02:43:11 lpotter: Neither one is wrong, they're just different. Jul 18 02:43:23 I have a pet theory that people who prefer LGPL also believe in the right to own firearms (which is another instance of an "individual right" in conflict with a "societal right" :) Jul 18 02:43:28 kd8ikt: Have you downloaded the latest version from the tango website? Jul 18 02:43:32 * cjb starts two flamewars at once. Jul 18 02:43:32 kd8ikt: if you have sat lock, then you have to be internet connected to get maps Jul 18 02:43:42 Stroller: Say what? O_o Jul 18 02:43:46 cjb: My guns. Let me show them to you. :) Jul 18 02:43:52 and yes...get the latest, tangogps, much better Jul 18 02:43:52 adsllc: haha :) Jul 18 02:44:10 Stroller: I was just wanting to make sure it's actually chargin'. doesn't bother me that it don't light up. Jul 18 02:44:42 Iinfinyte: I think it may need to be powered on, but I'm not sure Jul 18 02:44:52 Ah. Jul 18 02:45:01 Iinfinyte: if it lit up, it wouldn't be able to charge so well :) Jul 18 02:45:07 Exactly. Jul 18 02:45:21 well AGPS test shows sat lock but tango is null Jul 18 02:45:40 kd8ikt: you probably haven't installed gpsd, then Jul 18 02:46:10 walrustown: no, but you can sure link proprietary software to lgpl. Jul 18 02:46:19 kd8ikt: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner#GPS Jul 18 02:46:34 Alpha bravo tango rodger Jul 18 02:46:36 >_> sorry. Jul 18 02:46:59 lpotter: IMHO, there's nothing wrong with proprietary software. Free is often better, but not always. Jul 18 02:47:16 Ohoh, quick question. Jul 18 02:47:24 lpotter: doesn't that mean that people are freer to use the library that is licensed under the LGPL than under the GPL? Jul 18 02:47:25 adsllc: again, you're refusing to consider the goal. free is always better _for freedom_. ;-) Jul 18 02:47:27 Who do you hate more: Apple or Microsoft? Kekeke Jul 18 02:48:00 cjb: Whose goal is this? I am patenting new gulag techniques as we speak. Jul 18 02:48:18 walrustown: no, but it does mean I dont have the rights and acess to all the source code to modify it. Jul 18 02:48:38 walrustown: see above. "developers" are freer under the LGPL, but maximizing our own freedom is a pretty shallow goal to have. why not give freedom to everyone? Jul 18 02:48:40 * nullpuppy installs gps crap on the qtopia.net image with daily kernel from 7/18 Jul 18 02:48:43 lpotter: why should you have those rights? if I'm a developer and I don't want to grant you free access, why should I have to? Jul 18 02:48:55 cjb: Because I'm doing the work? Jul 18 02:49:02 i'm running stock 2007.2 image...does tangogps run on ASU as well? Jul 18 02:49:05 because this is about free software Jul 18 02:49:33 cjb: isn't freedom about choice? i.e., I can choose to make my software free or not? Jul 18 02:49:58 walrustown: it depends in whose freedom you are intersted in. Jul 18 02:49:59 walrustown: no. "isn't freedom about choice? I can choose to keep slaves, or not." Jul 18 02:50:04 And making users unable to run commercial software infringes their freedom. Jul 18 02:50:09 you can't just say you have a "freedom" to do whatever you want. Jul 18 02:50:17 cjb: keeping slaves.... restricts the slaves' choice.... Jul 18 02:50:25 np: Soupdragons - Free Jul 18 02:50:34 cjb: I have a "freedom" to do whatever I want. There. I said it. Jul 18 02:50:36 walrustown: as developing proprietary software restricts your users' power. Jul 18 02:50:44 cjp:I've got guns, remember? :) Jul 18 02:50:59 adsllc: I think people used that argument about the slavery thing, too :) Jul 18 02:51:12 cjb: you do realize that a LOT of software would never be developed if the authors weren't going to get compensated, right? Jul 18 02:51:27 all: How about less license war and more moko love? Jul 18 02:51:35 moko love!!! Jul 18 02:51:38 <3 <3 <3 Jul 18 02:51:40 ::hug:: Jul 18 02:51:54 cjb: Look at the huge amount of free speech recognition programs on linux forex. Jul 18 02:52:05 just like some big company developing proprietary apps linked against lgpl library, they keep all their code closed, so as a developer trying to develop for it, I have less rights Jul 18 02:52:20 walrustown: I don't think world needs "a LOT of software". part of the reason we have a billion packages for doing stupid payroll stuff is that none of them are sharing code. a world in which we share code would have different priorities. Jul 18 02:52:35 s/think world/think the world/ Jul 18 02:52:36 cjb meant: walrustown: I don't think the world needs "a LOT of software". part of the reason we have a billion packages for doing stupid payroll stuff is that none of them are sharing code. a world in which we share code would have different priorities. Jul 18 02:52:46 cjb: so I shouldn't be allowed to retain rights to software I write if I want to? Jul 18 02:53:21 walrustown: it's a moral choice. I'm not going to say that people should be physically restrained from making bad moral choices. I wouldn't make it, and I would try to persuade you not to make it. Jul 18 02:53:22 So, ah - whose gotten anywhere with the accellerometers? Jul 18 02:53:27 cjb: and I as a user shouldn't be allowed to purchase software from walrustown if I wish to? Jul 18 02:53:34 doc|home: around? Jul 18 02:53:35 SpeedEvil: see above. Jul 18 02:53:43 I'd purchase a mug from Walrustown if I visited. Jul 18 02:53:55 walrustown, cjb: and each person gets to decide on their own what their personal morals are Jul 18 02:54:02 cjb: selling things I make is not a bad moral choice. that's that. if you want to dispute that point, I'm not interested Jul 18 02:54:20 rwhitby: Yup. (Which isn't the same thing as meaning that all choices are free from criticism by others.) Jul 18 02:54:42 cjb: agreed. polite criticism is always good :-) Jul 18 02:54:48 (as is happening here) Jul 18 02:54:51 No it's not. Jul 18 02:54:52 People have a tendency to assume "I have free speech" means "I can say whatever I like and no-one can protest". Having a right to do something doesn't make you a responsible member of society for using it. Jul 18 02:54:58 * SpeedEvil passes out the flamethrowers. Jul 18 02:55:11 * grabs more than his share of the flamethrowers. Jul 18 02:55:32 Progress is good. Constructive criticism is good. This argument has been done to death - everyone is right. Let's get on to the good. Jul 18 02:55:57 so walrustown has the right to choose whatever moral stance he/she desires, and others can criticise the stance, but not criticise his/her right to take that stance. Jul 18 02:56:04 whats the qtopia based gps app? Jul 18 02:56:12 nullpuppy: atrocity? Jul 18 02:56:16 any recommended ASU images at this point? Jul 18 02:56:22 meh, I'm done arguing :) Jul 18 02:56:43 nullpuppy: I forget - it might not be that. Jul 18 02:56:52 So, accelerometers? Anyone? Jul 18 02:56:52 ok Jul 18 02:56:54 hmm Jul 18 02:57:00 adsllc: what about them. Jul 18 02:57:07 Any apps using them? Jul 18 02:57:15 don't think so Jul 18 02:57:24 www.openmoko.org/wiki/ Technical:Accelerometer_Fundamentals Jul 18 02:57:27 may be woerth a read Jul 18 02:57:32 Read it. Jul 18 02:57:40 Wrote a quick proof of concept program. Jul 18 02:57:42 gta02.py is the only program i've seen touching the accelerometers Jul 18 02:58:00 I am going to work on a "labyrinth" like game using the accels Jul 18 02:58:13 Any Messenger apps working on the Freerunner yet? Jul 18 02:58:14 But I haven't got a cross-compile toolchain working under debian yet :( Jul 18 02:58:20 I can almost always see /dev/input/event3, but only occasionally /dev/input/event2 - is this normal? Jul 18 02:59:08 That doesn't sound normal to me adsllc Jul 18 02:59:21 adsllc: it's some problem with neod or X, it's been discussed a lot on the list Jul 18 02:59:33 adsllc: kill X and it works fine Jul 18 02:59:37 Hallo balrogkun :) Jul 18 02:59:44 Speedevil :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jul 18 02:59:56 2008