**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jul 20 02:59:56 2008
Jul 20 03:00:05 <swc|666> kd8ikt: do you have insight on how I can get kernel headers for the git.openmoko kernel?
Jul 20 03:00:15 <kd8ikt> hm
Jul 20 03:00:20 <cjb> I'm English, just moved to Boston/the US two years ago.  My mother's Irish.  ;-)  But that's not why I moved here.
Jul 20 03:00:35 <kd8ikt> kernel source?
Jul 20 03:00:51 <kd8ikt> cjb: see that movie "the departed"?
Jul 20 03:00:52 <cjb> railer: yeah, I think so.  If you do opkg list you can see what to install.
Jul 20 03:00:57 <cjb> kd8ikt: no, missed that one
Jul 20 03:01:12 <railer> is there a online description of everything in opkg? not just opkg list?
Jul 20 03:01:12 <kd8ikt> awe go rent d/l it
Jul 20 03:01:27 <cjb> railer: hm, dunno
Jul 20 03:01:39 <kd8ikt> figured it'd be on public access in boston lol
Jul 20 03:01:44 <railer> that list is massive, would be nice if it was sorted
Jul 20 03:02:05 <kd8ikt> swc|666: kernel sources?
Jul 20 03:02:22 <railer> opkg install mtpaint, where is that one? it doesn't show up
Jul 20 03:02:39 <railer> on the FR once installed
Jul 20 03:02:44 <kd8ikt>  git clone git://git.openmoko.org/git/kernel.git linux-2.6
Jul 20 03:03:05 <swc|666> kd8ikt: i'm trying to build a diferent rt73 driver module that isnt in the source tree... trying to compile it on the FR
Jul 20 03:03:10 <swc|666> itself*
Jul 20 03:03:13 <kd8ikt> then cd linux-2.6 ; git checkout origin/andy
Jul 20 03:03:36 <kd8ikt> oh
Jul 20 03:03:39 <swc|666> k..
Jul 20 03:03:52 <kd8ikt> well i dunno
Jul 20 03:03:58 <swc|666> me neither
Jul 20 03:04:37 <kd8ikt> i have to hit the hay soon, big day tomorrow
Jul 20 03:04:53 <kd8ikt> one more killian's 
Jul 20 03:07:41 * retracile calls it a night, and waves
Jul 20 03:10:20 <kd8ikt> any accelleromter diagnostic apps?
Jul 20 03:11:49 <SirBob1701> can you launch a program on your phone via ssh
Jul 20 03:11:49 <SirBob1701> ?
Jul 20 03:16:27 <retracile_> SirBob1701: yes, you'll likely need to set DISPLAY=0: .. or was it 0.0 ? eh, something like that.
Jul 20 03:19:03 <carrar> ack
Jul 20 03:19:03 <carrar>      The default action is to keep your current version.
Jul 20 03:19:03 <carrar>     *** default.pa (Y/I/N/O/D) [default=N] ?
Jul 20 03:19:10 <carrar> during 1st upgrade
Jul 20 03:19:31 <carrar> go with the default?
Jul 20 03:20:19 <kd8ikt> :0.0
Jul 20 03:20:26 <kd8ikt> export 
Jul 20 03:20:43 <kd8ikt> export DISPLAY=:0.0
Jul 20 03:21:14 <kd8ikt> though i dont think my moko has export
Jul 20 03:21:25 <kd8ikt> whats another way to set it?
Jul 20 03:22:04 <linuxxr> do i have to edit opkg.conf to get it to update?
Jul 20 03:22:17 <kd8ikt> or maybe just 'DISPLAY=:0.0
Jul 20 03:22:33 <kd8ikt> linuxxr: i dont think so
Jul 20 03:23:01 <kd8ikt> it seems to be setup for the daily/all repo's by default
Jul 20 03:23:07 <linuxxee> Must have one or more source entries of the form:
Jul 20 03:23:07 <linuxxee> #
Jul 20 03:23:07 <linuxxee> #   src <src-name> <source-url>
Jul 20 03:23:07 <linuxxee> #
Jul 20 03:23:07 <linuxxee> # and one or more destination entries of the form:
Jul 20 03:23:08 <linuxxee> #
Jul 20 03:23:10 <linuxxee> #   dest <dest-name> <target-path>
Jul 20 03:23:12 <linuxxee> #
Jul 20 03:23:12 <carrar> I'm upgrading mine now, I have no idea what I;m doing, it's awesome!!
Jul 20 03:23:14 <linuxxee> # where <src-name> and <dest-names> are identifiers that
Jul 20 03:23:16 <linuxxee> # should match [a-zA-Z0-9._-]+, <source-url> should be a
Jul 20 03:23:18 <linuxxee> # URL that points to a directory containing a Familiar
Jul 20 03:23:20 <linuxxee> # Packages file, and <target-path> should be a directory
Jul 20 03:23:22 <linuxxee> # that exists on the target system.
Jul 20 03:23:29 * kd8ikt stabs linuxxee with a sharp spoon
Jul 20 03:23:48 <carrar> use http://pastebin.ca/
Jul 20 03:23:49 <linuxxee> am i missing something?
Jul 20 03:23:55 <linuxxee> sorry
Jul 20 03:24:00 <kd8ikt> nah leave it alone
Jul 20 03:24:15 <linuxxee> ok thanks
Jul 20 03:24:23 <kd8ikt> you shouldnt have to ever change it
Jul 20 03:24:28 <kd8ikt> for now....
Jul 20 03:24:44 <kd8ikt> unless you want to add someone elses 3rd party repo
Jul 20 03:25:21 <linuxxee> when i opkg install dropbear it says im up to date
Jul 20 03:25:31 <kd8ikt> good
Jul 20 03:25:51 <linuxxee>   i gustt i missed it
Jul 20 03:26:08 <linuxxee> so the keyboard /
Jul 20 03:26:27 <linuxxee> install the matchbox or not
Jul 20 03:28:08 <carrar> linuxxee, doing mine too for the 1st time, finding it works better if you drink beer
Jul 20 03:28:32 <kd8ikt> ;)
Jul 20 03:28:37 <kd8ikt> i do very well then
Jul 20 03:28:59 <carrar> heh
Jul 20 03:29:42 <carrar> Did get a corruption on the gallery thing
Jul 20 03:30:02 <carrar> pretending i didn't see it though
Jul 20 03:30:51 <linuxxee> bush is a bottle please
Jul 20 03:31:00 <linuxxee> in*
Jul 20 03:31:42 <linuxxee> anybodys phone come already fully updated?
Jul 20 03:31:57 <carrar> tar jvxf minimo.tar.bz2
Jul 20 03:31:59 <carrar> woops
Jul 20 03:32:01 <carrar> I doubt it
Jul 20 03:32:07 <carrar> that would be too much work
Jul 20 03:32:12 <carrar> havng to track releases
Jul 20 03:36:05 <linuxxr> so i do the opkg upgrade an it keeps saying nothing to do
Jul 20 03:36:23 * rwhitby can't tell whether steve's second message on the list was meant to be public, or was meant to be private to Sean ...
Jul 20 03:36:35 <linuxxr> it should show upgrading the packages right ?
Jul 20 03:37:43 <mmontour> linuxxr: you did an "opkg update" first and it successfully downloaded the new package info? 
Jul 20 03:38:03 <linuxxr> where would i find a list of  freerunner packages?
Jul 20 03:38:37 <linuxxr> yes i ssh in from a linux box an it downloads stuff
Jul 20 03:39:00 <linuxxr> errors on .sig files
Jul 20 03:39:30 <mmontour> yeah, the .sig errors don't seem to matter. 
Jul 20 03:39:35 <linuxxr> ok
Jul 20 03:40:02 <linuxxr> now when i do opkg upgrade it just says nothing to do
Jul 20 03:40:33 <linuxxr> i havent seen it upgrade anything
Jul 20 03:40:46 <stephelton> i changed my ringtone in the pulseaudio session file and the correct file plays, but it repeats very frequently and it sounds just awful
Jul 20 03:41:50 <linuxxr> are those md5sum sigs that are failing?
Jul 20 03:41:56 <kd8ikt> j/me removed the /usr/share/openmoko/sounds/touchscreen.wav
Jul 20 03:42:06 <kd8ikt> hate that beep
Jul 20 03:42:15 <linuxxr> thump
Jul 20 03:42:27 <kd8ikt> changed my wallpaper too
Jul 20 03:42:42 <kd8ikt> havent mest with the default ringer yet it doenst bother me too much
Jul 20 03:42:58 <dtx1> So has anybody seen this?
Jul 20 03:43:12 <dtx1> How did they get this smooth animation: http://projects.openmoko.org/forum/forum.php?forum_id=412
Jul 20 03:43:40 <kd8ikt> ?
Jul 20 03:43:54 <dtx1> You see the video?
Jul 20 03:44:04 <kd8ikt> m4a? i dont have the amr codec 
Jul 20 03:44:17 <kd8ikt> or whatever that lame itunes format is
Jul 20 03:44:22 <dtx1> You have vlc?
Jul 20 03:44:31 <dtx1> Its mpeg4
Jul 20 03:45:16 <kd8ikt> ew neato
Jul 20 03:45:21 <kd8ikt> ripples
Jul 20 03:45:24 <kd8ikt> i like that
Jul 20 03:45:40 <kd8ikt> thats hawt
Jul 20 03:45:47 <aggtrfrad> hey, anyone running debian on the freerunner?
Jul 20 03:45:48 <MadTBone> dtx1: looks like they might be using opengl
Jul 20 03:46:05 <dtx1> I didn't think they had an opengl implementation?
Jul 20 03:46:15 <dtx1> does it?
Jul 20 03:46:41 <stephelton> i changed my ringtone in the pulseaudio session file and the correct file plays, but it repeats very frequently (more often than the length of the wav)
Jul 20 03:47:07 <budfive> Does anybody know if any of the software stacks interact well with voicemail? I.e. if any of them display an icon somewhere when there's an unread message?
Jul 20 03:47:16 <SpeedEvil> No
Jul 20 03:47:22 <dtx1> stephelton: I didn't know thats how you changed it, good to know
Jul 20 03:47:42 <stephelton> dtx1: that's what i did, perhaps that's not the 'preferred' way
Jul 20 03:48:16 <dtx1> stephelton: does it have a length field in there?
Jul 20 03:48:52 <stephelton> dtx1: in the session file? no. the file i refer to is /etc/pulse/session
Jul 20 03:49:02 <dtx1> oh cool
Jul 20 03:49:03 <sontek> stephelton: did you make the ringtone yourself?  are you using wav or mp3?   I tried changing my ringtone and couldn't get it to work :P
Jul 20 03:49:31 <stephelton> sontek: its a wav i used 'audacity' to make out of an mp3
Jul 20 03:49:41 <stephelton> sontek: i couldn't get it to work with an mp3 or ogg file
Jul 20 03:49:56 <sontek> stephelton: I'll have to try that, I tried using a bunch of different tools to convert and mp3 and none of them worked
Jul 20 03:50:00 <MadTBone> SpeedEvil: was that "no" to dtx1 or budfive ?
Jul 20 03:50:02 <sontek> it complained about needing a wav decoder
Jul 20 03:50:37 <kd8ikt> day changed!
Jul 20 03:50:39 <stephelton> sontek: yeah audacity is nice, i was able to easily sample a ~5 second clip of a song... 
Jul 20 03:50:47 <kd8ikt> july 20th
Jul 20 03:51:08 <kd8ikt> export to wav
Jul 20 03:52:09 <sontek> stephelton: thanks, i'll try that
Jul 20 03:53:29 <SpeedEvil> no - there is no current message waiting indicator.
Jul 20 03:54:53 <walrustown> has anyone else had weird problems with SDL apps working but having their display mangled?
Jul 20 03:56:39 <MadTBone> SpeedEvil: that's what I thought....but then it occurred to me that you might have meant "no, there's no opengl implementation"
Jul 20 03:57:19 <sontek> stephelton: how did you slice a part out of the mp3?
Jul 20 03:57:38 <railer> anyone know how I can move the clock from the center of the home page to somewhere on the top or bottom?
Jul 20 03:57:40 <linuxxr> audacity
Jul 20 03:57:53 <sontek> I don't see a way to slice out a section in it
Jul 20 03:58:00 <stephelton> sontek: load your file, select the portion you want, export something or other
Jul 20 03:58:33 <sontek> oh, It grays out everything when its playing
Jul 20 03:58:38 <swc|666> so does anyone know how to get kernel headers from a git kernel?
Jul 20 03:58:39 <sontek> I can export selection if I stop it
Jul 20 03:58:49 <stephelton> has anyone had issues with ring tones repeating at a fixed/incorrect rate? i doubt this has anything to do with pulseaudio, probably a neod bug
Jul 20 03:59:58 <MadTBone> anyone used today's ASU image yet?
Jul 20 04:00:30 <chillywilly> nope
Jul 20 04:01:51 <linuxxr> can someone detail an image upgrade outline or summary?
Jul 20 04:05:21 <MrShlee> I need to inform some people - Whats the hassle with the 3d hardware? slow dataline? no drivers? bad hardware?
Jul 20 04:05:48 <linuxxr> 9 other people?
Jul 20 04:06:32 <sontek> stephelton: did you have to restart pulse audio or anything after changing the session file?
Jul 20 04:06:51 <MadTBone> linuxxr: are you staying within the same branch?
Jul 20 04:06:57 <linuxxr> yup
Jul 20 04:07:16 <linuxxr> for now
Jul 20 04:07:28 <MadTBone> linuxxr: just do opkg update && opkg upgrade
Jul 20 04:11:29 <sontek> stephelton: I tried restarting pulse but it didn't seem to work, I've been rebooting to test
Jul 20 04:13:02 <sybesis> hi there
Jul 20 04:15:14 <sontek> hmm, I wonder if there is any log for ringtones
Jul 20 04:15:18 <sontek> it wont play mine for some reason
Jul 20 04:15:45 <Openfree> without debug board, can i route out the kernel msg to HOST serial console?
Jul 20 04:17:21 <sontek> is there a way to find out what app its launching when a ring comes in to play the ringtone?
Jul 20 04:17:59 <linuxxr> adduser works
Jul 20 04:18:57 <linuxxr> is all put in /tmp?
Jul 20 04:19:11 <linuxxr> when u download stuff?
Jul 20 04:19:21 <linuxxr> or in home?
Jul 20 04:19:57 <sontek> and a way to detect when a call is coming in? I'd like to write a little python script the plays ringtones via gstreamer when a call comes in so that we can use mp3 ringtones instead of wav
Jul 20 04:22:39 <linuxxr> is the matchbox keyboard better?
Jul 20 04:24:30 <sontek> No, its to small to be useful
Jul 20 04:24:56 <sontek> and it has a bug where some of the numbers (9 and 0 for sure) output brackets instead of the number
Jul 20 04:25:03 <linuxxee> Failed to download http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/all/Packages.gz, error 0
Jul 20 04:25:06 <nullpuppy> sontek: i found a work around for that
Jul 20 04:25:16 <sontek> nullpuppy: what'd you have to do?
Jul 20 04:25:21 <nullpuppy> when you get that stuff instead of 9/0, press ctrl first
Jul 20 04:25:29 <nullpuppy> and you get the right character
Jul 20 04:25:29 <sontek> I love the ASU keyboard
Jul 20 04:25:37 <sontek> I wish that was available in 2007.2
Jul 20 04:25:46 <nullpuppy> whats it like? have a ss?
Jul 20 04:27:31 <linuxxee>  i dont think im updated
Jul 20 04:27:35 <stephelton> sontek: i found that i needed to restart pulse and then restart xserver-nodm
Jul 20 04:27:58 <sontek> nullpuppy: Its a full qwerty keyboard, but hides the numbers/special characters by default
Jul 20 04:28:07 <sontek> and you just stroke up to have it switch to display those
Jul 20 04:28:24 <sontek> so you get larger letters for typing with, rather than trying to fit *everything* on the screen
Jul 20 04:28:44 <nullpuppy> sontek: hmm, awesome
Jul 20 04:29:07 <railer> anyone know the command for putting the clock up in the top right corner
Jul 20 04:29:09 <railer> ?
Jul 20 04:29:27 <linuxxee> so the asu  kernel is the 1 to have?
Jul 20 04:31:16 <sontek> I prefer 2007.2's main screen, but ASU has a *MUCH* better SMS interface
Jul 20 04:31:18 <sontek> and keyboard
Jul 20 04:31:34 <sontek> it took me forever to figure out how to send a text in 2007.2
Jul 20 04:31:42 <nullpuppy> hehe
Jul 20 04:31:42 <sontek> and I still can't figure out a way to reply
Jul 20 04:32:08 <nullpuppy> yeah, the icons are kind of lacking in the way of being easy to understand
Jul 20 04:32:16 <sontek> yeah
Jul 20 04:32:30 <sontek> Once I realized that the battery looking icon was an envelope, it made more sense
Jul 20 04:32:39 <nullpuppy> i haven't been able to really use the ASU build at all, apps don't want to run for me.
Jul 20 04:32:43 <nullpuppy> haha
Jul 20 04:32:56 <nullpuppy> the qtopia.net build is pretty nice and usable though
Jul 20 04:33:04 <sontek> I haven't tried that one yet
Jul 20 04:33:15 <sontek> I'm a gtk guy so I wanted to work on some GTK apps for 2007.2
Jul 20 04:33:15 <nullpuppy> i've used it for a couple days
Jul 20 04:33:26 <nullpuppy> battery life is pretty excellent with it
Jul 20 04:33:28 <dtx1> MadTBone: You tried todays daily om-devel build?
Jul 20 04:33:33 <nullpuppy> yeah, i'm leaning the same way
Jul 20 04:33:39 <sontek> what apps does it have?
Jul 20 04:34:10 <nullpuppy> dailer, sms, contacts of course, also calc, calendar, note taking utility
Jul 20 04:34:16 <nullpuppy> todo app
Jul 20 04:34:20 * nullpuppy thinks
Jul 20 04:34:29 <nullpuppy> couple simple games
Jul 20 04:34:44 <sontek> stephelton: did you find any debugging output at all when you were working your ringtone?
Jul 20 04:34:56 <sontek> stephelton: I split out a wav from audacity and it doesn't play
Jul 20 04:35:04 <sontek> nullpuppy: that sounds pretty nice, i'll check it out
Jul 20 04:35:11 <sontek> nullpuppy: battery life isn't very good on 2007.2
Jul 20 04:35:20 <nullpuppy> sontek: yeah, i know
Jul 20 04:35:21 <sontek> nullpuppy: it lasts about 8 hours if I don't use it to much
Jul 20 04:35:34 <nullpuppy> sontek: yeah, i got about 9hrs today
Jul 20 04:35:46 <MadTBone> dtx1: I'm flashing ASU version now... I may ditch it for today's 2007.2
Jul 20 04:35:57 <nullpuppy> i'm not confident its suspending properly either though
Jul 20 04:36:01 <MadTBone> dtx1: ....but I haven't tried either yet
Jul 20 04:36:13 <sontek> MadTBone: whats new in todays 2007.2? anything good?
Jul 20 04:36:18 <dtx1> ah
Jul 20 04:36:48 <dtx1> MadTBone: tell me how it goes.  I don't have the guts to do it to mine.
Jul 20 04:36:52 <dtx1> :-P
Jul 20 04:37:02 <sontek> nullpuppy: When I had power saving turned on, when it went into suspend I could no longer get calls until I rebooted
Jul 20 04:37:22 <sontek> nullpuppy: it recieved the calls because it told me "15 missed calls"  but it never rang or told me I missed them until I rebooted
Jul 20 04:38:09 <nullpuppy> sontek: :( thats no good
Jul 20 04:38:20 <MadTBone> dtx1: actually.....I guess I did use daily....I did an opkg update && opkg upgrade in the last hour
Jul 20 04:38:32 <sontek> so I just let it stay on all the time and make sure I have my charger close by :P
Jul 20 04:38:32 <dtx1> oh does that do it?
Jul 20 04:38:39 <nullpuppy> :)
Jul 20 04:39:04 <nullpuppy> wonder if I should hold off on messing with suspend stuff until rasterman makes that daemon thingy they were talking about in the ml
Jul 20 04:40:12 <MadTBone> sontek: depends on what you mean by "good" .... didn't see anything fancy, but probably had at least 1 bugfix....that's good
Jul 20 04:42:29 <MadTBone> nullpuppy: which ml are you talking about?
Jul 20 04:43:01 <sontek> i'm looking at the daily build directory, which one is qtopia?
Jul 20 04:43:24 <MadTBone> sontek: it says qtopia
Jul 20 04:43:31 <sontek> I only see asu and 2007.2,  I think... qtopia-x11 is asu right?
Jul 20 04:43:37 <nullpuppy> MadTBone: wish i could remember ;) i think it was probably devel, maybe kernel. pretty sure it wasn't community
Jul 20 04:43:44 <sontek> I don't see a qtopia without x11
Jul 20 04:43:59 <MadTBone> sontek: right....
Jul 20 04:44:16 <MadTBone> sontek: qtopia runs on top of x11
Jul 20 04:44:26 <nullpuppy> sontek: the one your looking for is only available directly from qtopia.net
Jul 20 04:44:31 <MadTBone> sontek: ohh....you want upstream
Jul 20 04:44:46 <MadTBone> sontek: search wiki for "latest images"
Jul 20 04:44:50 <dtx1> ASU is running on X?
Jul 20 04:45:08 <MadTBone> dtx1: yes
Jul 20 04:45:46 <dtx1> But regular Qtopia just runs right on frame buffer right?
Jul 20 04:47:01 <MadTBone> dtx1: right
Jul 20 04:47:13 <sontek> have you guys tried the scaredy cat images? sounds like he has a theme selector in his which is kind of cool
Jul 20 04:48:06 <nullpuppy> nope
Jul 20 04:48:17 <nullpuppy> i've wanted to try those out. where are they at?
Jul 20 04:48:40 <sontek> http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/
Jul 20 04:49:00 <stephelton> sontek: as i mentioned, i foudn that restarting pulseaudio and then the xserver did the trick
Jul 20 04:49:25 <dtx1> do I need to remove gtk+-dev and install gtk+-fastscaling?
Jul 20 04:49:30 <sontek> stephelton: yeah, I restarted the whole phone
Jul 20 04:49:35 <dtx1> opkg upgrade complains about it
Jul 20 04:49:58 <MadTBone> latest ASU image boots into X and gives "error loading module" ... anyone else get this?
Jul 20 04:50:03 <stephelton> sontek: \= dunno what to tell you. does it playback fine on another machine?
Jul 20 04:50:54 <sontek> stephelton: I can play it with totem but mpg123 can't play it
Jul 20 04:51:15 <MadTBone> sontek and nullpuppy, scardey cat image last updated on the 10th... might not have latest fixes (gps w/ sd, etc...) .... could try pairing w/ normal daily kernel
Jul 20 04:51:41 <nullpuppy> MadTBone: thats what i'm gonna do ;)
Jul 20 04:51:52 <Openfree> i can't boot from SD-card with freerunner, it says can't find "/dev/mmcblk0p2" 
Jul 20 04:52:01 <dtx1> Does anybody know why opkg upgrade is trying to install gtk+-fastscaling?
Jul 20 04:52:08 <nullpuppy> anyone know how to set the led triggers?
Jul 20 04:52:11 <dtx1> Does it increase performance?
Jul 20 04:52:20 <nullpuppy> root@om-gta02:~# cat /sys/devices/platform/gta02-led.0/leds/gta02-power\:orange/
Jul 20 04:52:23 <nullpuppy> trigger  
Jul 20 04:52:26 <nullpuppy> [none] mmc0 nand-disk bat-charging-or-full bat-charging bat-full timer
Jul 20 04:52:52 <nullpuppy> obviously echoing something there isn't likely to work
Jul 20 04:52:58 <sontek> I wonder why the daily images don't have his theme selector script
Jul 20 04:52:59 <Openfree> well i do have a second ext2 partion 
Jul 20 04:53:02 <sontek> thats a cool app to have on the phone
Jul 20 04:53:09 <MadTBone> nullpuppy: echo 'nand-disk' > /sys/devices/platform/gta02-led.0/leds/gta02-power\:orange/
Jul 20 04:53:24 <sontek> when doing the qtopia image, what is "flash image"  ?  is that the kernel?
Jul 20 04:53:45 <lpotter> sontek: ASU is not qtopia. qtopia can be dl from qtopia.net
Jul 20 04:53:46 <MadTBone> nullpuppy: echo shouldn't work??  why not?
Jul 20 04:54:06 <lpotter> flash image means jffs2, but I have included mwesters kernel as well
Jul 20 04:54:12 <sontek> lpotter: yeah, i'm looking at installing from qtopia, but they have "flash image" and "rootfs"
Jul 20 04:54:21 <nullpuppy> MadTBone: dunno, from the contents of trigger it looked like it wouldn't do much to echo into that file...
Jul 20 04:54:34 <lpotter> rootfs is a tarball of the root filesystem
Jul 20 04:54:44 <Dave> Hi Lpotter
Jul 20 04:54:48 <Dave> Does Qtopia work yet?
Jul 20 04:54:50 <lpotter> hi Dave
Jul 20 04:55:05 <lpotter> Qtopia has worked since the first week I got a neo
Jul 20 04:55:19 <MadTBone> nullpuppy: it sets it...but I don't know if it will respond properly... tried earlier w/ bat-charging-or-full ... didn't work
Jul 20 04:55:28 <nullpuppy> MadTBone: ok
Jul 20 04:55:29 <Dave> Lpotter is doesn't work well now
Jul 20 04:55:32 <Dave> and has no packages
Jul 20 04:55:43 <nullpuppy> thats what i wanted to do ;) guess i need to do some further digging
Jul 20 04:55:47 <lpotter> what doesnt work well?
Jul 20 04:55:49 <sontek> have you guys had much success with grps + t-mobile?
Jul 20 04:55:59 <sontek> I tried the t-mobile scripts in the wiki but they didn't work
Jul 20 04:56:11 <Dave> Lpotter the Internet settings in the configuration menu consistently crashes the phone for me.
Jul 20 04:56:24 <lpotter> hmm, really
Jul 20 04:56:28 <Dave> YES REALLY
Jul 20 04:56:43 <Dave> if I push or select anything once in there the phone freezes and I need to hard reset
Jul 20 04:57:04 <lpotter> well, any encrypted netwrok wil not work on neo;s just yet. there is a bug in wpa_supplicant
Jul 20 04:57:13 <lpotter> hmm
Jul 20 04:57:14 <Dave> I CAN'T EVEN GET THAT FAR
Jul 20 04:57:22 <Dave> I can't do anything :P
Jul 20 04:57:27 <Dave> It's flashy but crap :D
Jul 20 04:57:36 <Dave> \o\ Qtopia /o/
Jul 20 04:57:52 <dtx> lpotter: I'm running on a WEP wireless network
Jul 20 04:57:56 <lpotter> just because internet settings crashes its crap?
Jul 20 04:58:09 <Dave> Lpotter the phone therefore has no connectivity.
Jul 20 04:58:12 <Dave> Ergo, useless.
Jul 20 04:58:28 <lpotter> which image are you using?
Jul 20 04:58:48 <Dave> 4.3.2
Jul 20 04:59:06 <ikjh> Dave: You can still get connectivity through GSM, USB, Bluetooth, unencrypted wireless, WEP-encrypted wireless.
Jul 20 04:59:18 <Dave> via ssh, sure
Jul 20 04:59:45 <lpotter> i recently updated it 07172049 snap is the latest
Jul 20 04:59:48 <Dave> So much for Qtopia's "complete" Inteface.
Jul 20 04:59:56 <Dave> :)
Jul 20 05:00:02 <lpotter> is not crashing for me
Jul 20 05:00:11 <niklauz> FR ships w/ 2007.2 right?
Jul 20 05:00:21 <walrustown_> niklauz: yes
Jul 20 05:00:51 <Dave> :(
Jul 20 05:01:15 <sontek> is there a place to download 2007.2 themes?
Jul 20 05:01:19 <MadTBone> lpotter: encrypted network can connect using iwconfig directly
Jul 20 05:01:26 <ikjh> niklauz: Yes, 2007.2 built in April.
Jul 20 05:01:29 <sontek> I'm hoping another theme has better sms interface
Jul 20 05:01:35 <lpotter> not using wpa_supplicant
Jul 20 05:01:49 <MadTBone> lpotter: no
Jul 20 05:01:50 <lpotter> at least on my device
Jul 20 05:02:14 <niklauz> i'm just wondering, whats does everbody like best?
Jul 20 05:02:15 * Dave whines at lpotter sobbing
Jul 20 05:02:30 <lpotter> why should I be sobbing?
Jul 20 05:02:34 <niklauz> the gtk-based seems like the best looking to me
Jul 20 05:02:44 <lpotter> not qtopia's fault wpa_suppluicant does not work
Jul 20 05:02:51 * Dave stones lpotter with a barrage of freerunners.
Jul 20 05:02:58 * SpeedEvil prefers GTK
Jul 20 05:03:22 <niklauz> Dave: may you please barrage me w/ freerunners?
Jul 20 05:03:25 * dtx strongly dislikes Qt
Jul 20 05:03:26 <sontek> niklauz: I prefer 2007.2 for its home interface, but if you text a lot, its basically useless :P
Jul 20 05:03:26 * ikjh prefers an X server
Jul 20 05:03:45 <sontek> niklauz: the SMS interface is very unusable, but everything else works well on it
Jul 20 05:03:47 * dtx meant to strongly dislike Qtopia
Jul 20 05:03:49 <lpotter> i personally do not see how x server helps you in anyway on a phone
Jul 20 05:03:50 <niklauz> it's the most far along at this point isn't it, and i understand the phone actually does work?
Jul 20 05:04:04 <sontek> niklauz: I'm using the moko as my main phone
Jul 20 05:04:23 <sontek> niklauz: it works just fine, but everyone you call will be annoyed because it echos back at them :P
Jul 20 05:04:31 <niklauz> lol
Jul 20 05:04:34 <ikjh> lpotter: There are about one zillion programs written as X clients, and the fact that my computer is small and can talk GSM doesn't change the fact that I want to run them.
Jul 20 05:05:19 <niklauz> k, i have one more question, i've heard about gps problems so i'm wondering is there any advantage to waiting to get a different hardware revision?
Jul 20 05:05:19 <MadTBone> sontek: I haven't gotten any echo complaints
Jul 20 05:05:41 <sontek> MadTBone: everyone I call complains because they can hear themself
Jul 20 05:06:07 <MadTBone> sontek: haven't heard it here...
Jul 20 05:06:10 <niklauz> sontek: i think that could be a carrier issue. it happens on my bb(att) periodically
Jul 20 05:06:31 <MadTBone> sontek: yeah...I have att as well...
Jul 20 05:06:37 <sontek> MadTBone: it hasn't happened on any other phone I own, but I have t-mobile
Jul 20 05:06:56 <sontek> whoops, met to respond to niklauz :P
Jul 20 05:07:20 <MadTBone> sontek: ocasional echo complaints w/ other devices....but none so far w/ FR....definately a carrier issue
Jul 20 05:07:22 <MrShlee> Anyone know the answer to my 3D question?
Jul 20 05:07:51 <sontek> MadTBone: I have a blackberry pearl and a treo 650 and I don't have that issue, so its hard to believe its a carrier issue
Jul 20 05:08:14 <MadTBone> MrShlee: what was the question?
Jul 20 05:08:15 <thoughtjigs> anybody here working on the FSO
Jul 20 05:08:43 <deque> has anyone run into problems running into problems running dfu-util and gotten errors like: "Starting download: [dfu_download error -71"
Jul 20 05:09:09 <SpeedEvil> MrShlee: what isn't the problem is perhaps the more accurate question.
Jul 20 05:09:16 <deque> ah
Jul 20 05:09:22 <SpeedEvil> MrShlee: Slow bus - 7M/second shared with the SD card.
Jul 20 05:09:40 <sontek> if my phone kernel panics how do I shut it down to update the rootfs?
Jul 20 05:09:42 <SpeedEvil> MrShlee: it only really wants to work in QVGA mode - it's got a max size of 512*512
Jul 20 05:09:47 <sontek> I held power for 60 seconds and it didn't shutdown
Jul 20 05:09:48 <SpeedEvil> Sonicadvance: pull abt
Jul 20 05:09:53 <SpeedEvil> sonte:
Jul 20 05:09:55 <SpeedEvil> bat
Jul 20 05:10:21 * niklauz wonders if SpeedEvil's keyboard is dying
Jul 20 05:10:28 <thoughtjigs> I would like to try and run the latest FSO
Jul 20 05:10:31 <MrShlee> <MrShlee> I need to inform some people - Whats the hassle with the 3d hardware? limited functionality? slow dataline? limited drivers?
Jul 20 05:10:32 <SpeedEvil> MrShlee: and not really an especially capable 3D unit. Plus that 7M/s means you're using 100% CPU too. Using 3M/s uses 50% CPU
Jul 20 05:10:48 <MrShlee> but thanks alot.
Jul 20 05:10:49 <nullpuppy> huh
Jul 20 05:10:49 <thoughtjigs> the tutorials seem to be out of date ...
Jul 20 05:11:00 <MadTBone> MrShlee: who do you need to inform?
Jul 20 05:11:08 <nullpuppy> i'm confused by steve's post on the community list re schematics...
Jul 20 05:11:14 <nullpuppy> are they giving us both? already?
Jul 20 05:11:21 <MrShlee> the Australian openmoko mailing list had a question regarding game ports..
Jul 20 05:11:36 <MrShlee> Just wanted to point people in the right direction.
Jul 20 05:11:45 <MadTBone> MrShlee: ahh...gotcha
Jul 20 05:12:30 <thoughtjigs> Any FSO people here?
Jul 20 05:12:53 <MadTBone> thoughtjigs: I've used it a birt
Jul 20 05:13:00 <MadTBone> s/birt/bit
Jul 20 05:13:02 <niklauz> i tried to order my FR w/ the first available batch but my CC company messed it up, now i'm wondering if i should wait for a hw revision...thoughts?
Jul 20 05:13:23 <MadTBone> niklauz: how long do you want to wait?
Jul 20 05:13:56 <dtx> hehe
Jul 20 05:13:59 <thoughtjigs> I used git to get the latest stuff and I am trying to get it to work on the FR but the tutorials seem to be out of date...
Jul 20 05:14:01 <dtx> could be FOREVER!!!
Jul 20 05:14:32 <niklauz> dtx: well i heard about gps problems that might be hw related, but it's a little unclear to me
Jul 20 05:14:44 <niklauz> MadTBone: i don't really
Jul 20 05:14:55 <sontek> is there any documentation on how to handle events like when a call is coming in?
Jul 20 05:15:04 <MadTBone> thoughtjigs: ahh....git... haven't tried building FSO image
Jul 20 05:15:08 <sontek> i'd like to replace whatever is handling ringtones right now with a little script I just wrote 
Jul 20 05:15:29 <thoughtjigs> any body tried to build an FSO image?
Jul 20 05:15:39 <sontek> its in python and uses gstreamer to play audio instead, so now we can support mp3/ogg ringtones
Jul 20 05:15:50 <MadTBone> sontek: then get it now...any hardware revision in the next few months won't improve things much...
Jul 20 05:16:24 <MadTBone> sorry that was for niklauz 
Jul 20 05:16:48 <nullpuppy> alright, flashing to scaredycat
Jul 20 05:17:12 <dtx> sontek: well the way you describe it, it just sounds like a pulseaudio event, so its probably just the pulse daemon
Jul 20 05:17:18 <MadTBone> sontek: there's docummentation on the GSM modem interface....search wiki
Jul 20 05:17:43 <niklauz> MadTBone: hah, i thoguht so :)
Jul 20 05:18:33 <niklauz> how long did shipping take for everyone, it's too bad there isn't like a wiki/voting mechanism built into irc
Jul 20 05:18:43 <niklauz> !shippingtimes
Jul 20 05:18:46 <niklauz> meh
Jul 20 05:19:36 <ikjh> niklauz: It took about a week for me, but half the time was waiting for them to send it. I think they were a bit overloaded at the beginning.
Jul 20 05:19:37 <nullpuppy> niklauz: mine was shipped on a thursday and arrived the following monday
Jul 20 05:19:49 <nullpuppy> ikjh: thats an understatement ;)
Jul 20 05:20:05 <walrustown_> anybody in here know what the deal is with /dev/input/event3 sometimes not workign?
Jul 20 05:20:12 <sontek> niklauz: it took them a week to ship it, and then 3 days to get it
Jul 20 05:21:03 <niklauz> sweet, i think i'll just wait to order this friday then
Jul 20 05:21:47 <niklauz> can't wait, i'm probably just going to use it as a mini-tablet (a la ipod touch) until more stuff develops
Jul 20 05:22:46 <dtx> sontek there appears to be a list of pulseaudio modules in /usr/lib/pulse-0.9/modules
Jul 20 05:23:14 <niklauz> does anyone on chan live in maryland btw?
Jul 20 05:23:18 <dtx> you can probably write a pulseaudio extension to do that
Jul 20 05:23:32 <dtx> I live in the same country
Jul 20 05:23:34 <MadTBone> nullpuppy: how's that scaredy cat image?
Jul 20 05:23:34 <dtx> :-P
Jul 20 05:23:47 <nullpuppy> MadTBone: still flashing... ;)
Jul 20 05:24:02 <MadTBone> nullpuppy: long live usb1 ???
Jul 20 05:24:16 <nullpuppy> MadTBone: yup! :/
Jul 20 05:25:04 <sontek> dtx: thanks for the info, i'll check it out
Jul 20 05:25:12 <MadTBone> nullpuppy: I would'a gone with 1394
Jul 20 05:25:17 <niklauz> who will be the first to network numerous freerunners into a mobile cluster?
Jul 20 05:25:27 <niklauz> i'm looking at you SpeedEvil
Jul 20 05:25:29 <niklauz> ;)
Jul 20 05:25:35 <dtx> I appreciate having this USB host/device mode
Jul 20 05:25:40 <MadTBone> nullpuppy: you know.... for video editing ....
Jul 20 05:25:55 <dtx> I plan on porting over gtkPod so I can mess with my wife's iPhone
Jul 20 05:25:55 <dtx> haha
Jul 20 05:25:57 <MadTBone> nullpuppy: .... on a 400MHz arm
Jul 20 05:26:00 <nullpuppy> hehe
Jul 20 05:26:09 <nullpuppy> MadTBone: awesome idea ;)
Jul 20 05:26:17 <nullpuppy> MadTBone: should go wtih firewire 800 ;)
Jul 20 05:26:30 <sontek> what is everyones favorite 2007.2 theme?
Jul 20 05:26:32 <MadTBone> nullpuppy: nah.... that's just cwazy talk
Jul 20 05:26:42 <nullpuppy> :)
Jul 20 05:26:42 <dtx> there are different themes?
Jul 20 05:27:22 <sontek> dtx: I guess so, scaredycat image has a theme selector
Jul 20 05:28:02 <walrustown_> anybody in here know what the deal is with /dev/input/event3 sometimes not working?
Jul 20 05:28:46 <nullpuppy> hmm
Jul 20 05:28:48 <nullpuppy> interesting
Jul 20 05:29:03 <nullpuppy> flashed with scaredycat ... LOTS of empty flash notices
Jul 20 05:29:11 <dtx> so is there a way to switch themes from the command line?
Jul 20 05:29:21 <MadTBone> nullpuppy: flash notices?
Jul 20 05:29:40 <sontek> is there any tools that sync evolution with 2007.2's PIM apps?
Jul 20 05:29:44 <nullpuppy> or messages rather
Jul 20 05:29:49 <nullpuppy> 'Empty flash at 0x ....' stuff
Jul 20 05:30:03 <carrar> crap now after upgrading I can no longer connect to the phone via OSX
Jul 20 05:30:16 <MadTBone> nullpuppy: does it boot?
Jul 20 05:30:22 <dtx> sontek: the PIM apps store its information in .evolution folder so I would assume file copy could work? maybe?
Jul 20 05:30:31 <nullpuppy> MadTBone: looks like it
Jul 20 05:30:36 <nullpuppy> 59% atm
Jul 20 05:31:05 <carrar> get some ((null)) interface
Jul 20 05:32:22 <carrar> well that was fun while it lasted
Jul 20 05:32:51 <dtx> carrar did you try to replace uboot also or something?
Jul 20 05:32:56 <sontek> dtx: really? that'd be nice :P
Jul 20 05:32:56 <carrar> no
Jul 20 05:33:02 <carrar> just those two package update
Jul 20 05:33:08 <carrar> per the getting started
Jul 20 05:33:37 <dtx> carrar: that's odd
Jul 20 05:33:45 <dtx> did you bring the interface up and everything?
Jul 20 05:33:50 <carrar> pkg update, pkg upgrade
Jul 20 05:33:54 <carrar> yeah
Jul 20 05:33:57 <carrar> I was able to ssh in
Jul 20 05:34:00 <carrar> work find
Jul 20 05:34:03 <carrar> worked
Jul 20 05:34:16 <dtx> carrar: can you setup wireless on it
Jul 20 05:34:21 <carrar> no
Jul 20 05:34:35 <carrar> just using the usb
Jul 20 05:35:32 <dtx> you got an Ubuntu CD laying around?
Jul 20 05:35:36 <dtx> :-P
Jul 20 05:35:39 <carrar> no
Jul 20 05:36:04 <carrar> just my OSX box
Jul 20 05:36:09 <dtx> sorry, I have little experience with using my Mac box to do stuff like this
Jul 20 05:36:24 <dtx> tried restarting?
Jul 20 05:36:27 <carrar> well the osx instructions worked great
Jul 20 05:36:35 <carrar> till after the upgrade
Jul 20 05:36:45 <dtx> have you shutdown the phone and brought it back up?
Jul 20 05:36:52 <carrar> man times
Jul 20 05:36:53 <carrar> many
Jul 20 05:37:16 <dtx> were you running opkg upgrade inside of 'screen'?
Jul 20 05:37:19 <MadTBone> nullpuppy: thoughts?
Jul 20 05:37:23 <carrar> no
Jul 20 05:37:25 <dtx> are you sure it finished?
Jul 20 05:37:28 <carrar> yes
Jul 20 05:37:41 <carrar> per http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner#The_Package_Contents
Jul 20 05:38:06 <dtx> Restart your Mac
Jul 20 05:38:08 <nullpuppy> MadTBone: sorry, haven't looked at it yet, was booting, then got distracted by a video posted in another room
Jul 20 05:38:09 <dtx> maybe
Jul 20 05:38:18 <carrar> hahah thats about all I haven't tried :)
Jul 20 05:38:20 <nullpuppy> http://www.vimeo.com/1366042?pg=embed&sec=1366042
Jul 20 05:38:25 <carrar> hell why not
Jul 20 05:38:25 <nullpuppy> and the next one...
Jul 20 05:38:31 <nullpuppy> that guy kind of pisses me off
Jul 20 05:38:58 <MadTBone> nullpuppy: yeah....saw that earlier...I think he misses the point
Jul 20 05:39:22 <nullpuppy> MadTBone: completely
Jul 20 05:39:50 <nullpuppy> MadTBone: i think thats why that video annoys me so much
Jul 20 05:39:50 <dtx> nullpuppy + MadTBone: while I do think he lacks any kind of tact, he does make some good points (and then completely misses several others)
Jul 20 05:40:17 <kdubois> i cant see how you'd compare an in work project to a finished one...
Jul 20 05:40:38 <nullpuppy> dtx: sort of, except he's reviewing a UI that has been advertised as not ready for consumer use
Jul 20 05:40:42 <MadTBone> dtx: you beat me to it....I was about to say that his criticisms are valid, but from the completely wrong vantage point
Jul 20 05:40:44 <dtx> honestly I blame openmoko for calling this a production release
Jul 20 05:40:46 <nullpuppy> kdubois: exactly
Jul 20 05:40:54 <nullpuppy> dtx: yeah, true
Jul 20 05:41:33 <kdubois> also, i'm very confused about where coding help is needed, so if anyone can point me in the right direction, i'd appreciate it
Jul 20 05:41:37 <sontek> I thought all his complaints were valid, I have all the same complaints he does :P
Jul 20 05:41:46 <dtx> I mean its great for geeks like us, but not for the general populace
Jul 20 05:41:47 <sontek> but I didn't get it expecting it to be solid
Jul 20 05:42:15 <dtx> sontek: I'd say everybody in this room was under the same assumption
Jul 20 05:42:35 <dtx> having lurked in #openmoko for a long time now I knew pretty well what I was getting
Jul 20 05:42:40 <sontek> but one of his complaints was his own fault, he installed matchbox on it
Jul 20 05:42:46 <dtx> right
Jul 20 05:42:48 <dtx> totally stupid
Jul 20 05:43:01 <dtx> But I do hate the built in keyboard
Jul 20 05:43:15 <dtx> especially pointless in terminal mode
Jul 20 05:43:18 <dtx> there is no '/'
Jul 20 05:43:26 <dtx> or '|'
Jul 20 05:43:33 <sontek> yeap
Jul 20 05:43:41 <sontek> The only keyboard I've found I like is the ASU one
Jul 20 05:43:52 <nullpuppy> MadTBone: ok, scaredycat is prettier by far, but seems slower :/
Jul 20 05:44:32 <dtx> I'm gonna try and get an old finger keyboard concept going
Jul 20 05:44:50 <carrar> hahah dtx
Jul 20 05:44:53 <carrar> @#($!@(*# apple
Jul 20 05:44:57 <carrar> that worked
Jul 20 05:45:08 <dtx> well, yeah Apple is just another PC
Jul 20 05:45:13 <carrar> PoS one
Jul 20 05:45:16 <dtx> BSD / Darwin based
Jul 20 05:45:20 <dtx> eh
Jul 20 05:45:22 <carrar> time to go back to running FreeBSD as a desktop
Jul 20 05:45:23 <dtx> beats Windows
Jul 20 05:45:36 <sontek> nullpuppy: what theme does it have enabled by default?
Jul 20 05:45:44 <sontek> I'm trying to find the themes to install them on mine right now
Jul 20 05:46:00 <nullpuppy> sontek: dunno, its still grey and orange
Jul 20 05:46:26 <nullpuppy> still looking around
Jul 20 05:46:33 <sontek> what makes it prettier?
Jul 20 05:46:47 <nullpuppy> hahaha, scummvm is on it!
Jul 20 05:46:47 <carrar> ok back in
Jul 20 05:46:47 <carrar> w00t!
Jul 20 05:46:49 <nullpuppy> sontek: just the refined edges and what not
Jul 20 05:46:55 <railer> http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/4/42/Today-running-arrows.png < how can I get my clock like in this picture?
Jul 20 05:47:45 <railer> sontek tell me how it works out, havn't tried that yet
Jul 20 05:48:00 <dtx> This is an interesting concept: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5qDqE1DYl0
Jul 20 05:55:41 <MadTBone> railer: the clock is one of the panel apps.... edit /etc/matchbox/session ....
Jul 20 05:56:21 <MadTBone> railer: add openmoko-panel-clock in the --end-applets section
Jul 20 05:56:39 <MadTBone> railer: you might have to install it first through opkg
Jul 20 05:56:55 <railer> ok checking it out
Jul 20 05:57:06 <railer> brb
Jul 20 06:00:01 <MadTBone> nullpuppy: anything else interesting in scardey cat?
Jul 20 06:00:16 <dtx> off to bed
Jul 20 06:00:18 <dtx> l8r
Jul 20 06:00:28 <MadTBone> dtx: later
Jul 20 06:01:06 <nullpuppy> MadTBone: wallpaper changer, scummvm, theme selector (though haven't look at that one yet).
Jul 20 06:07:09 <jOERG_rw> <nullpuppy> are they giving us both? already?
Jul 20 06:07:18 <jOERG_rw> nullpuppy: just wait and see ;-)
Jul 20 06:07:25 <donomo> where can i change the background image on the home page?
Jul 20 06:07:35 * donomo is tired of the beach/rocks scene
Jul 20 06:07:39 <nullpuppy> jOERG_rw: hehe, you tease
Jul 20 06:07:39 <nullpuppy> ;)
Jul 20 06:09:07 <jOERG_rw> nullpuppy: remember http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-February/013277.html ???
Jul 20 06:09:11 <sontek> has anyone connected a bluetooth headset to your moko yet?
Jul 20 06:09:16 <sontek> does it work?
Jul 20 06:09:33 <nullpuppy> jOERG_rw: /me looks. i didn't subscribe to the ml's until recently
Jul 20 06:09:51 <donomo> found it on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Today/2007.2
Jul 20 06:10:03 <jOERG_rw> nullpuppy: so you see where I'm coming from. Now I work at OM ;-)
Jul 20 06:10:22 <nullpuppy> jOERG_rw: ooooh
Jul 20 06:11:05 <nullpuppy> jOERG_rw: thats awesome. i'm kind of hoping i can find my way into the company eventually myself
Jul 20 06:11:10 <nullpuppy> not ready quite yet though
Jul 20 06:11:46 <jOERG_rw> nullpuppy: probably you'd be surprised...
Jul 20 06:11:53 <niklauz> why is the texting application unusable? someone said that earlier..
Jul 20 06:12:42 <nullpuppy> jOERG_rw: do you know where all the devs are located?
Jul 20 06:12:51 <nullpuppy> i'm curious how spread out the company is
Jul 20 06:13:03 <jOERG_rw> nullpuppy: not to get me wrong: I don't think they hired my because of the above mentioned post :-D
Jul 20 06:13:12 <nullpuppy> :)
Jul 20 06:13:12 <railer> my  	  matchbox-panel is not found any guesses why?
Jul 20 06:13:17 <carrar> holy cow thats a small capacitor on the SD slot (gps)
Jul 20 06:13:19 <jOERG_rw> (located) more or less, yaeh
Jul 20 06:13:48 <nullpuppy> hehe
Jul 20 06:14:23 <jOERG_rw> carrar: XD look at the 0402 components then!
Jul 20 06:14:43 <carrar> XD look?
Jul 20 06:14:56 <jOERG_rw> XD = :-D
Jul 20 06:15:05 <nullpuppy> hehe
Jul 20 06:15:19 <carrar> looking at the PDF at http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Gta02_gps_10pf_rework_sop.pdf
Jul 20 06:15:25 <nullpuppy> ooh, clock in the panel is sooo much better
Jul 20 06:15:30 <nullpuppy> now to hide the other clock
Jul 20 06:15:36 <MadTBone> nullpuppy: did you use normal kernel w/ scaredy cat?  od did you use scaredy cat kernel?
Jul 20 06:15:53 <nullpuppy> MadTBone: i'm using the daily from 7/20 for the kernel
Jul 20 06:16:06 <jOERG_rw> carrar: there are even 0201 components out there - thank god we don't use them
Jul 20 06:16:47 <carrar> hahah http://articulationllc.home.comcast.net/~articulationllc/sm0402.htm
Jul 20 06:16:58 * carrar just shakes his head
Jul 20 06:17:12 <carrar> that pic
Jul 20 06:17:15 <carrar> insain
Jul 20 06:17:33 <jOERG_rw> 0201 is half the size :-o
Jul 20 06:18:06 <nullpuppy> ...
Jul 20 06:18:21 <nullpuppy> jOERG_rw: and one of the suggested fixes to the SD/GPS problem is soldering one of those!?! ;)
Jul 20 06:18:25 <nullpuppy> thats insane
Jul 20 06:18:27 <carrar> maybe I can find a shop to solder that in
Jul 20 06:18:34 <nullpuppy> even for a skilled solderer
Jul 20 06:18:44 <jOERG_rw> nope the suggested one is 0402
Jul 20 06:18:50 <carrar> I got a soldering iron but not that small
Jul 20 06:19:01 <Dave> Joerg :D
Jul 20 06:19:09 <nullpuppy> jOERG_rw: isn't that what carrar linked?
Jul 20 06:19:49 <jOERG_rw> nah, don't even think aboout! I'm soldering for >40 years now, and those 0402 drive me nuts >:-/
Jul 20 06:19:57 <nullpuppy> hehe
Jul 20 06:20:06 <jOERG_rw> hi Dave!
Jul 20 06:20:40 <Dave> Hei :)
Jul 20 06:20:46 <carrar> whatever happen to looking at the color stripes on the resistors!
Jul 20 06:21:02 <jOERG_rw> LOL forget it
Jul 20 06:21:40 <railer> hey dave
Jul 20 06:22:09 <jOERG_rw> err, maybe there even *are* whole books printed on them, alas I have no raster-electron microscope to check ;-)
Jul 20 06:22:56 <railer> -sh: matchbox-panel: not found any help?
Jul 20 06:24:53 <sontek> railer: are you trying to add the clock?
Jul 20 06:25:05 <sontek> railer: its openmoko-panel-clock
Jul 20 06:25:24 <nullpuppy> jOERG_rw: oh, you might know... how do you set the trigger events for the leds?
Jul 20 06:25:35 <railer> ya sontek
Jul 20 06:25:49 <carrar> be easier to buy a SD card with the capacitor in the card
Jul 20 06:28:11 <nullpuppy> aww. removing the clock also removed the date :/
Jul 20 06:28:40 <jOERG_rw> nullpuppy: nah, I'm really just HW, not quite sure about this. Andy should know
Jul 20 06:28:51 <nullpuppy> ok
Jul 20 06:29:33 <sontek> so whats the whole in the bottom of the FR for?
Jul 20 06:29:38 <sontek> makes me think of soap on a roap
Jul 20 06:29:40 <sontek> rope*
Jul 20 06:29:41 <nullpuppy> haha
Jul 20 06:30:02 <nullpuppy> some description i read called it a lanyard hole or something like that
Jul 20 06:30:43 <carrar> so no release of the GPS fix software?
Jul 20 06:33:04 <jOERG_rw> carrar: it's already in "daily"
Jul 20 06:33:25 <carrar> <- new
Jul 20 06:33:41 <carrar> How do I get "daily"
Jul 20 06:33:57 <nullpuppy> http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080720/
Jul 20 06:34:05 <nullpuppy> download the uImage and flash it ;)
Jul 20 06:34:26 <carrar> haha ok
Jul 20 06:34:30 <carrar> hrmmf
Jul 20 06:36:08 <carrar> there a doc for that?
Jul 20 06:36:12 <nullpuppy> for flashing?
Jul 20 06:36:18 <nullpuppy> yeah, on the getting started page
Jul 20 06:36:51 <nullpuppy> basically, plug in usb, turn it off, then press aux, while holding aux, press power and wait until you get the uboot screen
Jul 20 06:37:21 <nullpuppy> then in term, run ./dfu-util -a kernel -R -D uImage-....bin
Jul 20 06:37:23 <sontek> nullpuppy: did you check out any of the other themes on scaredycat?
Jul 20 06:37:29 <nullpuppy> sontek: not yet
Jul 20 06:37:34 <nullpuppy> i should do that
Jul 20 06:37:59 <niklauz> is scaredycat a different image than the daily?
Jul 20 06:38:11 <nullpuppy> niklauz: yes
Jul 20 06:38:25 <nullpuppy> its a user-created release based off of 2007.2
Jul 20 06:38:44 <niklauz> OH!!!! thats great news!
Jul 20 06:39:23 <niklauz> i hope he changes the name of the gtk-based build though, it doesn't really fit anymore
Jul 20 06:40:08 <nullpuppy> actually, from what i saw, i think he has builds based of 2007.2 and ASU
Jul 20 06:40:12 <nullpuppy> so.. *shrugs*
Jul 20 06:41:33 <nullpuppy> and yeah, thouhg i the way the image is labeled is simpley Openmoko-scaredycat-openmoko-devel-image-glibc...
Jul 20 06:43:41 <niklauz> i'm sorry to sounds ignorant but do u mean he is combining the two or he has a community version of both?
Jul 20 06:44:17 <nullpuppy> he has versions of both
Jul 20 06:45:36 <carrar> any other way to flash it without using dfu-util?
Jul 20 06:45:54 <carrar> where is the source for that?
Jul 20 06:46:05 <nullpuppy> not that i know of
Jul 20 06:46:57 <carrar> Where is the source for dfu?
Jul 20 06:47:54 <nullpuppy> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_the_Neo_FreeRunner
Jul 20 06:48:06 <nullpuppy> that has all the relevant info and the link to dfu-util
Jul 20 06:48:14 <carrar> but no source
Jul 20 06:48:24 <carrar> so that I can compile dfu and run it
Jul 20 06:48:29 <nullpuppy> ah, ok
Jul 20 06:48:29 <nullpuppy> hmm
Jul 20 06:48:33 <carrar> since my OS is different
Jul 20 06:51:05 <railer> MadTBone thanks I dont know why but the first time I read your post it made no sense, second time it was crystal clear
Jul 20 06:51:22 <nullpuppy> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Dfu-util
Jul 20 06:51:24 <nullpuppy> there we go
Jul 20 06:56:25 <niklauz> is wasn't able to find anything on teh scaredycat image, is there a webpage or anything?
Jul 20 06:56:52 <nullpuppy> dunno. images are here: http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/
Jul 20 06:58:27 <tessier> I still haven't figured out whether I should re-flash my freerunner or not.
Jul 20 06:58:33 <tessier> It still has the same image from the factory. opkg seems broken.
Jul 20 06:58:51 <tessier> Hard to tell how much progress has been made to know if it is worth it yet.
Jul 20 06:59:24 <niklauz> wowza, thats a lotta images :)
Jul 20 07:00:30 <niklauz> i want to organize that sooo bad
Jul 20 07:00:32 * niklauz shakes head
Jul 20 07:01:29 <nullpuppy> tessier: in the 6 days i've had my phone, i've probably flashed mine about 10 times so far ;)
Jul 20 07:01:47 <tessier> nullpuppy: Has it improved anything?
Jul 20 07:02:29 <nullpuppy> tessier: battery life is consistently improving by little bits
Jul 20 07:02:42 <nullpuppy> gps support w/ sd card inserted has improved
Jul 20 07:03:19 <nullpuppy> those are the main things. there is probably some other stuff that i'm not seeing or noticing though
Jul 20 07:03:42 <nullpuppy> speaking of which, i still need to send a message on the ml requesting some sort of changelog with the daily builds
Jul 20 07:04:01 <nullpuppy> i don't care how brief, i just want to know roughly what changed.
Jul 20 07:06:14 <nullpuppy>  that was... wierd
Jul 20 07:06:14 <malik1972> nullpuppy: that makes sense!
Jul 20 07:06:32 <nullpuppy> pandora just freaked out and started playing two songs at once
Jul 20 07:06:38 <nullpuppy> malik1972: hehe, doesn't it though?
Jul 20 07:07:40 * cb22_ cries a little inside
Jul 20 07:07:41 <MadTBone> opkg update gives error "could not obtain administrative lock"
Jul 20 07:07:42 <malik1972> nullpuppy: at least from time to time one should know what is going on, fixed issue x, better performance with y, added application z
Jul 20 07:08:32 <cb22_> i left digg because the comments started to look like they came from people whose idea of funny was a cat with a caption under it
Jul 20 07:09:24 <nullpuppy> malik1972: yeah
Jul 20 07:09:39 <nullpuppy> malik1972: would definately be useful for testers looking to test a particular fix too
Jul 20 07:11:51 <malik1972> nullpuppy: testing: i was back to 2007.2 and as this is not maintained i think i will go back to asu or whatever (holding qtopia 4.x in nand)
Jul 20 07:12:24 <niklauz> im surprised OM isn't more open, i would have thought they would be more like neuros, which has managed in this area beautifully
Jul 20 07:13:08 <nullpuppy> niklauz: how so?
Jul 20 07:15:56 <sontek> is the only reason my phone doesn't charge via usb because it only puts out 100ma?
Jul 20 07:16:04 <niklauz> just coordinating community effort cohensively, communicating when they can, and saying they can't when they can't
Jul 20 07:16:25 <nullpuppy> niklauz: ah.
Jul 20 07:16:25 <sontek> the barry project (for blackberry's) has a tool called bcharge the increases the power pushed out to 500ma
Jul 20 07:16:26 <nullpuppy> ok, yeah, i can see that
Jul 20 07:16:46 <niklauz> neuros, for example actually holds many of their business meetings on irc, i've attended some it creates a kind of excitement
Jul 20 07:16:50 <nullpuppy> niklauz: though, i think they've done an alright job. i think their problem is lack the manpower
Jul 20 07:16:58 <niklauz> you get to know the people involved and appreciate the work to be done
Jul 20 07:17:52 <niklauz> nullpuppy: you may be right, but the two of us are communicating well and we only have one person to speak for us each
Jul 20 07:18:41 <nullpuppy> yeah
Jul 20 07:18:50 <sontek> is there plans of making use of the accelerometers?
Jul 20 07:19:04 <sontek> I haven't found any apps that switch to wide screen when rotating
Jul 20 07:19:07 <nullpuppy> yup
Jul 20 07:19:20 <nullpuppy> sontek: theres a GSoC project using them for gesture based input
Jul 20 07:19:35 <nullpuppy> beyond that, there are lots of ideas, don't think much has been implemented yet though
Jul 20 07:20:01 <sontek> I think the only use I want is rotating for text messaging so I can have a full qwerty keyboard
Jul 20 07:20:23 <nullpuppy> sontek: yeah, taht would be awesome
Jul 20 07:21:00 <niklauz> nullpuppy: it's kinda a new area so i wouldn't expect them to get it right, but others have sort of shown the way, thats why i am a little disapointed
Jul 20 07:21:18 <sontek> have you guys setup the tool chain before?  is there a way to keep it in its own folder and setup the environment to know how to use it? rather than extracting it to root?
Jul 20 07:21:59 <sontek> I'm going to work on fixing the ringtone stuff to support mp3 and ogg, and not require pa/x restart to change ringtone
Jul 20 07:22:10 <niklauz> is it possible to flash the phone from the phone?
Jul 20 07:22:43 <nullpuppy> niklauz: dunno, maybe?
Jul 20 07:23:15 <niklauz> i read that u-boot is like the bios and grub :) so maybe so
Jul 20 07:23:42 <Hopscotch> good morning
Jul 20 07:25:32 <jOERG_zzZZzz> niklauz: technically it's no problem. we need the CPU to read from USB and flash NAND. So CPU can read other source than USB
Jul 20 07:26:13 * jOERG_zzZZzz away again
Jul 20 07:27:59 <Dave> :)
Jul 20 07:28:04 <MadTBone> anyone using ASU done a opkg upgrade lately?
Jul 20 07:28:15 <niklauz> ty jOERG_zzZZzz i hope i didn't disturb your rest
Jul 20 07:28:19 <niklauz> ;)
Jul 20 07:30:19 <niklauz> something else i was wondering about, is it currently possible or planned/expected to be able to use the neo as a gprs-to-802.11 access point? do u know what i mean?
Jul 20 07:31:27 <nullpuppy> don't know if its currently possible. i know people have discussed things similar to that
Jul 20 07:32:11 <MadTBone> is there a tracker for ASU?
Jul 20 07:32:23 <niklauz> there are some exciting possibilities here
Jul 20 07:33:06 <railer> http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/?action=letter&g=a this seems to be the opgk list?
Jul 20 07:34:19 <niklauz> railer: the FR is arm9, but that isn't listed...?
Jul 20 07:35:30 <railer> it seems to have the majority
Jul 20 07:36:24 <railer> and relatively organized with search, it has openmoko
Jul 20 07:37:28 <niklauz> aye, i see
Jul 20 07:37:46 <Stroller> niklauz: gprs-to-802.11 access point should be pretty trivial, although you have to use Ad-Hoc mode, mot master
Jul 20 07:38:52 <niklauz> Stroller: so set up a normal linux net-bridge?
Jul 20 07:39:18 <Stroller> I was thinking to NAT the interfaces
Jul 20 07:39:20 <MrShlee> I wonder if the FR could host-ap ;)
Jul 20 07:39:26 <niklauz> is the FR device not capable of master mode?
Jul 20 07:39:49 <Stroller> Not sure about bridging on PPP-type interfaces, although I guess it must be possible
Jul 20 07:39:56 <Stroller> niklauz: Nope.   :(
Jul 20 07:40:14 <Stroller> A restriction of the wifi card. Which has a closed firmware.
Jul 20 07:40:29 <niklauz> o ok, it's always something
Jul 20 07:40:58 <niklauz> such a shame, i didn't think master mode was a hardware capability...
Jul 20 07:41:06 <Stroller> Oh, yes
Jul 20 07:41:09 <Stroller> It is
Jul 20 07:41:21 <niklauz> aren't you saying it's a firmware ability/
Jul 20 07:41:35 <Stroller> Depending on your definition of hardware, I guess
Jul 20 07:41:48 <BobOfDoom> I guess you could wire a regular AP up to some batteries and connect the FR to it in managed mode if you really wanted gprs-802.11 bridge with multiple clients, chunkier though
Jul 20 07:41:58 <cozub> MadTBone: something like http://trac.freesmartphone.org:8000/trac-example/report ?
Jul 20 07:43:27 <niklauz> if the hardware is capable but firmware prevents it then i wouldn't blame the hardware
Jul 20 07:44:07 <niklauz> BobOfDoom: whaaaaaa!?!?
Jul 20 07:44:09 <Stroller> Well, niklauz, a wireless card is nothing but a 2.4ghz radio
Jul 20 07:44:09 <niklauz> lol
Jul 20 07:44:59 <BobOfDoom> or you might even be able to find a USB 802.11 dongle that can go in master mode :p
Jul 20 07:45:01 <Stroller> And it needs the firmware do stuff like convert 1s and 0s into radio waves
Jul 20 07:45:30 <niklauz> Stroller: ya of course. its another of how closed software creates limits, you would think in hardware this open you wouldn't encounter the limits so easily but there they are
Jul 20 07:45:52 <Stroller> Traditionally that sort of stuff was burned into the hardware
Jul 20 07:46:04 <Stroller> Like Postscript on a LaserJet 4
Jul 20 07:47:07 <niklauz> Stroller: o ok, im not really familiar w/ which parts are volatile and which arent 
Jul 20 07:47:20 <Stroller> Nowadays it can be changed, but at some point one's likely to say "this was supplied by the manufacturer of the chip, it's the way they intended it to work, we can't really dig into that"
Jul 20 07:48:06 <niklauz> Stroller: o ok, yes thats true but i also know that my wrt running retro-fitted linux firmware rulez
Jul 20 07:48:07 <Stroller> niklauz: well, there are one or two wireless projects that did indeed rewrite the firmware
Jul 20 07:48:17 <Stroller> (or are in the process)
Jul 20 07:48:33 <Stroller> niklauz: ah! but that's at a higher level, I think
Jul 20 07:48:40 <niklauz> Stroller: u mean for this chip or others?
Jul 20 07:48:47 <Stroller> No, for other chips
Jul 20 07:48:54 <Stroller> I think prism54 have
Jul 20 07:48:58 <niklauz> Stroller: oh now that you mention it i realized you are right
Jul 20 07:49:12 <Stroller> And maybe for a different Atheros chip
Jul 20 07:49:33 <niklauz> hmm, ok so on this one the master-mode restriction is hw-burned?
Jul 20 07:49:34 <Stroller> But those have been created fully by reverse engineering
Jul 20 07:49:50 <Stroller> niklauz: nearly, but not quite
Jul 20 07:49:54 <Stroller> (AIUI)
Jul 20 07:50:11 <Stroller> usually you either upload the firmware blob on power-up
Jul 20 07:50:35 <Stroller> or I guess you might have some other way or reflashing it
Jul 20 07:50:50 <Stroller> Now, I know that "firmware blob" sounds like software
Jul 20 07:52:05 <Stroller> But traditionally you have chip specs that say "apply 1 to pin 9, apply 0 to pin 10, apply 1 to pin 11, apply 0 to pin 12" and this does X. 
Jul 20 07:52:33 <Stroller> The firmware for wireless cards is merely the stuff that allows them to do that. 
Jul 20 07:53:32 <niklauz> lol ok so this is not a short-term acheivable :)
Jul 20 08:05:12 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r0e4749435866 10/odeviced/src/plugins/power/ (power.plugin power.vala): decrease the poll interval
Jul 20 08:19:46 <walrustown_> wow, the bus to the glamo is *slow*
Jul 20 08:20:58 <MadTBone> walrustown_: are you running ASU?
Jul 20 08:22:17 <walrustown_> Nope, I'm running SDL on X11
Jul 20 08:22:36 <walrustown_> I've got that marble game started :)
Jul 20 08:23:28 <MadTBone> walrustown_: ahh...how's it comming?
Jul 20 08:23:48 <walrustown_> Well, it displays a marble on the screen, and tilting the phone makes the marble roll
Jul 20 08:24:23 <railer> walrustown, what language
Jul 20 08:24:27 <walrustown_> C++
Jul 20 08:24:33 <MadTBone> walrustown_: well, those are the basics... that alone is pretty cool
Jul 20 08:24:43 <walrustown_> yeah I'm having a blast just rolling my marble around
Jul 20 08:24:43 <railer> how many lines of code so far?
Jul 20 08:24:51 <walrustown_> hmm lemme see
Jul 20 08:25:01 <Error323> How is that 3D chip working? I've heard the bandwidth is very slow, are you guys experiencing problems because of that? (An almost Freerunner buyer)
Jul 20 08:25:28 <walrustown_> 924 lines
Jul 20 08:25:39 <railer> wow
Jul 20 08:25:47 <walrustown_> Error323: I have to be *very* careful what I blit if I want a decent framerate
Jul 20 08:25:57 <railer> running it on the FR or emulator?
Jul 20 08:26:01 <walrustown_> FR
Jul 20 08:26:43 <railer> holidays coming hoping to buld some card games
Jul 20 08:26:47 <Error323> walrustown_: but a decent 3D app is possible with it?
Jul 20 08:27:22 <walrustown_> Error323: I don't know.  Apparently the advanced features of the glamo (3d accel) chip are under a tight NDA
Jul 20 08:27:26 <MadTBone> Error323: max target size for 3d chip is 512x512
Jul 20 08:27:28 <walrustown_> Error323: so I don't really know what it can do
Jul 20 08:27:29 <goldenhawk> I just found a bizzare bug on my phone @.@  When I'm using my matchbox-keyboard or my bluetooth keyboard, and I have USB connected, a bunch of the keys get messed up.
Jul 20 08:27:35 <goldenhawk> Like 0 comes out as }
Jul 20 08:27:39 <goldenhawk> And I can't type a capital m
Jul 20 08:27:43 <Elleo> i didn't think a driver had been written that supports the 3D features
Jul 20 08:27:58 <Error323> hmm i c
Jul 20 08:28:12 <railer> goldenhawk thats kind normal happened to me to
Jul 20 08:28:12 <Error323> yes there were some problems with the openness of it i read somewhere?
Jul 20 08:28:13 <Elleo> but my info could be out of date
Jul 20 08:28:26 <goldenhawk> railer: Is this a known thing?
Jul 20 08:28:32 <MadTBone> Error323: are you planning on developing?
Jul 20 08:28:34 <railer> I think so
Jul 20 08:28:47 <railer> I switched kb finally
Jul 20 08:29:20 <ko_dez> It sounded to me as if pretty much anyone could get the documentation trough NDA, and release drivers, but I can't remember if the released drivers could be open source.
Jul 20 08:29:22 <Error323> MadTBone: yes, well i've been doing some 3d programming in ogl/c++ and i'd like to play around with it.
Jul 20 08:29:37 <Error323> MadTBone: but I've been hearing some disturbing facts
Jul 20 08:29:48 <goldenhawk> The weird thing is it's only when my USB is connected.  I take it out, it goes away.  I plug it back in and it comes back.
Jul 20 08:30:00 <walrustown_> Error323: I don't know how to use the 3D part of the glamo -- AFAIK all you can do right now is blit
Jul 20 08:30:07 <ko_dez> Someone has managed to exploit the glamo for video decoding at least, so there are some things you can use it for. mpeg4 i believe it was.
Jul 20 08:30:45 <emdete> about the glamo: as far as i knowyou can release drivers on the know-how from the docs. just the docs are closed - if someone from om would explain how the glamo works you may write & release.
Jul 20 08:31:26 <Error323> walrustown_: i c. I
Jul 20 08:31:30 <ko_dez> emdete: right. I hope someone with the know-how does that =)
Jul 20 08:31:34 <emdete> and you may get wince source code. also the glamo x driver is there
Jul 20 08:31:52 <emdete> ko_dez: someone under the nda. yes. i hope that too
Jul 20 08:32:17 <ko_dez> emdete: that source code should be helpful at least. 
Jul 20 08:32:20 <emdete> but everything yuo derive from that may or may not be free
Jul 20 08:32:27 <Error323> It's so sad that that power dcan't be released yet :(
Jul 20 08:32:31 <ko_dez> true.
Jul 20 08:32:38 <emdete> ko_dez: ask roh... maybe he can help
Jul 20 08:33:20 <ko_dez> emdete: I have nothing to contribute on this matter I am afraid.
Jul 20 08:35:12 <balrog-kun> emdete: afaik om is allowed to release code based on the wince driver on whatever license we want
Jul 20 08:35:51 <balrog-kun> according to harald at least
Jul 20 08:36:08 <railer> anyone know where the vcards a kept?
Jul 20 08:36:39 <Error323> Can you guys convince me into buying one? ^_^
Jul 20 08:37:07 <railer> Well what do you want?
Jul 20 08:37:23 <MadTBone> railer: what image are you using?
Jul 20 08:37:35 <railer> 2007
Jul 20 08:37:43 <railer> damn
Jul 20 08:37:57 <railer> not qtopia
Jul 20 08:38:08 <railer> I rmemeber the name!
Jul 20 08:38:09 <MadTBone> k...look in ~/.evolution or something like that
Jul 20 08:38:32 <railer> it 2:30 am brain locked
Jul 20 08:38:46 <railer> standard one
Jul 20 08:39:13 <emdete> balrog-kun: exact. based on anything they know
Jul 20 08:39:19 <MadTBone> railer: mountain time....
Jul 20 08:39:28 <railer> yes
Jul 20 08:39:32 <railer> Edmonton
Jul 20 08:39:41 <Error323> I wanna play with it, program for it
Jul 20 08:40:07 <emdete> Error323: the neo is one of the finest toys i ever had. yes, if you are a developer, go ahead. if you want to do a phone call dont
Jul 20 08:40:12 <railer> I'm the only person in Edmonton with this that in itself makes it a good buy
Jul 20 08:40:35 <MadTBone> emdete: I can call quite easily
Jul 20 08:40:52 <emdete> MadTBone: :D stable? do u use it every day? no other phone?
Jul 20 08:41:23 <MadTBone> emdete: for the last 4 days or so, yes
Jul 20 08:41:26 <railer> I made several call today, nice sound, fun games, and it's not an iphone, or crackberry
Jul 20 08:41:41 <emdete> MadTBone: you phone batt stays on for 4 dayes? wow...
Jul 20 08:42:02 <MadTBone> emdete: uhh... there's a charger in the box....
Jul 20 08:42:32 <railer> the stylist is a pen , laser pointer and a flash light as well
Jul 20 08:42:49 <emdete> what i wanted to say is just the good old "some assembly required". some people think it may replace a phone today...
Jul 20 08:43:07 <Error323> hehe i c. I'm a developer, but is its framework, the base stable? Like you don't have to rewrite ur code every time you upgrade the kernel or sth? I guess I wanna know how far the base development is I'm not good enough to develop on that stuff, just third party programs I guess.
Jul 20 08:43:39 <railer> there is a shitload of assembly required! You want a wuss phone get a iphone
Jul 20 08:43:53 <emdete> railer: treu
Jul 20 08:44:11 <emdete> railer: but that makes all the fun - for some people
Jul 20 08:44:12 <MadTBone> it certainly isn't ready for prime time....
Jul 20 08:44:37 <railer> it's totally fun
Jul 20 08:45:08 <MadTBone> Error323: the real work is being done right now with FSO image....
Jul 20 08:45:15 <railer> it's like getting to play with linux all over again
Jul 20 08:45:49 <MadTBone> Error323: it will provide a consistent, standardized base to build apps on
Jul 20 08:46:12 <railer> it's like building your own web/mail server, you could just go with who ever server guy but seriously what's the fun in that
Jul 20 08:46:59 <railer> and to be honest, this phone is way easier then setting up a web server
Jul 20 08:47:17 <Error323> I see
Jul 20 08:47:47 <emdete> yes, if you ever tried to write programs for other phones, even the greenphone you really understand "free your phone" with the neo :D
Jul 20 08:48:02 <Error323> Never did :)
Jul 20 08:48:21 <emdete> okay, maybe you should do that first ;)
Jul 20 08:48:22 <railer> 2 days, phone, sms, wifi, data, gps, 20 + games, 2 calculators, maps, 
Jul 20 08:48:38 <MadTBone> I'm really surprised that no one else has commented on the recent ASU breakage...  does no one else get "error loading module" when X starts in ASU?
Jul 20 08:49:10 <railer> 2 browsers, but the browsers suck
Jul 20 08:49:55 <railer> and a command line interface on your PHONE, I mean come on! how cool is that!
Jul 20 08:50:33 <MadTBone> railer: what I like is that I can ssh into my servers from my phone.  now that's cool
Jul 20 08:51:09 <railer> never thought of that, good point
Jul 20 08:51:15 <MadTBone> railer: even though typing is painful on the current keyboards
Jul 20 08:52:03 <railer> I got the full kb much easier, going blind but much easier, but there is some usb kb that work on it I think
Jul 20 08:53:33 <Mirv> since I can't find anything proper / up-to-date on the mailing lists, has anyone figured out how to make the echo on receiver's end go away? Mono Sidetone playback / Mono 2 Mux tips from ticket 1267 do not help here
Jul 20 08:53:36 <railer> where is the vcards again?
Jul 20 08:54:04 <Error323> I guess the real question for me is: Will this be *the* phone that is 'given' to the public, or will it be the second developer/test version? If the former then I'll order one now because it would be just a matter of time to get stable and there will be no reason to wait. If the latter I'd be kind of annoyed since I'd have to buy the new one when that comes out which has improved hw.
Jul 20 08:54:13 <MadTBone> we need a full screen landscape keyboard, with reduced keyset displaying at any given time....make full alpha plus some common symbols with keys as large as possible....
Jul 20 08:54:32 <Mirv> railer: guide, you mean? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Import_Vcf_Contacts , linked to from getting started
Jul 20 08:54:40 <walrustown_> Error323: the freerunner has at least one known HW bug
Jul 20 08:54:56 <Mirv> walrustown_: hmm, GPS is fixed in all that are orderable now?
Jul 20 08:54:57 <railer> error323, it's a tough call, but my guess is no\
Jul 20 08:55:11 <walrustown_> Mirv: really? with the 10pf cap fix?
Jul 20 08:55:17 <Error323> walrustown_: what is it?
Jul 20 08:55:19 <Error323> railer: :(
Jul 20 08:55:22 <Mirv> walrustown_: well that's what was said on the mailing lists
Jul 20 08:55:33 <walrustown_> Error323: the GPS didn't work well if you have a MicroSD card in
Jul 20 08:55:36 <Mirv> Error323: the GPS thing I just mentioned that should be fixed in all phones orderable now
Jul 20 08:55:48 <walrustown_> Why didn't I wait two weeks to order my phone?
Jul 20 08:55:58 <Mirv> there was a post that said "what do you think we've been doing here" (to a question if future shipped phones will be fixed)
Jul 20 08:56:02 <railer> reading brb
Jul 20 08:56:52 <MadTBone> Error323: I'd say that this iteration of the hardware won't gain acceptance beyond those who really understand what's possible with a free phone...  the next iteration *might*
Jul 20 08:56:56 <Mirv> Error323: the hw is "ready", but there will probably be a sligthly improved model anyway before the software is ready consumer-ready, or that's my guess. but FreeRunner will be usable as a consumer phone when the sw is ready
Jul 20 08:56:56 <railer> this is ver2, my guess public ready ver 4, in 18 months
Jul 20 08:57:29 <MadTBone> railer: I agree
Jul 20 08:57:34 <Mirv> I'd be happy to use FR as a phone if I got the correct mixer settings...
Jul 20 08:57:39 <Error323> hmmm... 
Jul 20 08:57:56 <Mirv> (well, I'm using it anyway but have to apogolize to receivers about the sound quality)
Jul 20 08:57:58 <Error323> That's why I have doubt :/
Jul 20 08:58:21 <zedstar_> id imagine a new form factor in the next version also
Jul 20 08:58:26 <MadTBone> Mirv: I get great call quality
Jul 20 08:58:55 <Mirv> Error323: if you're eager to get a free phone, you probably can't wait for the next model, and this one will be ok already, but if you don't care about waiting again half a year or more, there will be GTA03 with EDGE support and slightly improved performance (glamo away)
Jul 20 08:59:00 <MadTBone> Mirv: what problems are you having w/ audio
Jul 20 08:59:01 <Error323> So currently they still are fixing bugs in the freerunner model on different shipments?
Jul 20 08:59:06 <Mirv> zedstar_: afaik no, GTA03 is like GTA02 but without glamo and with EDGE
Jul 20 08:59:25 <Mirv> MadTBone: the receiver hears everything she says aloud, ie. that echo thing
Jul 20 08:59:38 <Mirv> MadTBone: the receiver also hears quite a lot of noise
Jul 20 08:59:49 <zedstar_> mirv: ah okay +1 verion on that then :)
Jul 20 08:59:57 <Mirv> zedstar_: yep :)
Jul 20 09:00:11 <MadTBone> Mirv: hmm...I'm seeing quite a few similar reports...but I've never had a complaint
Jul 20 09:00:13 <zedstar_> mirv: i thought gta03 was the Dash GPS thing?
Jul 20 09:00:15 <Mirv> Error323: well the first shipment had the GPS bug, but no others are known I think
Jul 20 09:00:35 <Mirv> MadTBone: are you using out-of-the-box 2007.2 or something else? I flashed daily 2007.2 which might be the reason
Jul 20 09:00:52 <Mirv> zedstar_: dunno about that, I only remember the removal of glamo and addition of EDGE
Jul 20 09:01:35 <Error323> Mirv: I hate waiting, but I reaaaaally want it to be stable hardware since I'd be truely sad when ordering it and the next week a bug is found and my phone would be out dated.
Jul 20 09:01:42 <MadTBone> Error323: was using 2007.2 daily from 7/15 ... now I'm trying ASU
Jul 20 09:02:08 <MadTBone> Error323: oh...the hardware seems stable...
Jul 20 09:02:25 <railer> error give it a month, the worry is it might be sold out
Jul 20 09:02:27 <balrog-kun> Error323: no hardware is ever perfectly stable :p
Jul 20 09:02:34 <balrog-kun> each bugfix can introduce a new bug
Jul 20 09:02:39 <MadTBone> sorry that 2nd to last was for Mirv , not Error323 
Jul 20 09:02:45 <Mirv> Error323: well with the GPS bug fixed, I already have succesfully used every function of the device. but indeed, if you give it another month you should by then have heard if there is something more besides the GPS bug
Jul 20 09:02:49 <Mirv> MadTBone: ok...
Jul 20 09:03:09 <balrog-kun> the gta03 is said to have a siemens modem, no glamo, one accelerometer iirc
Jul 20 09:03:40 <Error323> balrog-kun: when will it be comming out?
Jul 20 09:03:40 <railer> true, how many bought the original iphone less than a year ago, there's a burn for you
Jul 20 09:04:53 <Error323> Ok I'll wait another month, been tracing the project for almost a year now I guess I can take another month..
Jul 20 09:04:56 <balrog-kun> Error323: ;)
Jul 20 09:05:06 <Error323> heh
Jul 20 09:05:26 <railer> maybe by then the wiki will be more organized :(
Jul 20 09:05:35 <MadTBone> ... you know... I have to say that they really should go with a capacitive touch screen in the upcoming versions...
Jul 20 09:07:11 <MadTBone> ... this touchscreen experience is frustrating at times because of lack of sensitivity.
Jul 20 09:07:29 <MadTBone> ....perhaps that's not the right way to phrase it.
Jul 20 09:07:52 <MadTBone> inconsistent sensitivity?
Jul 20 09:07:56 <Error323> o_O
Jul 20 09:08:18 <Error323> you mean it fails sometimes?
Jul 20 09:09:07 <MadTBone> Error323: no...it's just that it's not as sensitive if you use very light pressure.
Jul 20 09:09:14 <railer> I never had if fail
Jul 20 09:10:02 <MadTBone> Error323: like....I want it to register a touch when I can barely feel the screen....
Jul 20 09:10:54 <kd8ikt> good morning
Jul 20 09:11:22 <MadTBone> kd8ikt: holy crap....I think I was here when you went to sleep....
Jul 20 09:11:38 <Error323> MadTBone: LOL
Jul 20 09:11:41 <kd8ikt> that was like at 12 its now 5AM
Jul 20 09:11:42 <Error323> and ic 
Jul 20 09:11:42 <MadTBone> I should probably get some shut eye
Jul 20 09:11:43 <railer> I'm beat
Jul 20 09:11:51 <railer> me too
Jul 20 09:11:59 <Error323> I guess the freerunner being addictive is a good sign =)
Jul 20 09:11:59 <kd8ikt> some butt head called me at 5 in the morning and woke me up
Jul 20 09:12:04 <railer> what time at your place mad?
Jul 20 09:13:09 <Error323> where can I find a list of requested changes and confirmed changes for the upcomming version of the phone?
Jul 20 09:13:10 <MadTBone> kd8ikt: so....of course...the first thing you do after slamming the phone down is get on #openmoko and start flashing the latest daily....
Jul 20 09:13:25 <MadTBone> kd8ikt: ....and there's nothing wrong with that.....
Jul 20 09:13:28 <Error323> lol
Jul 20 09:13:46 <kd8ikt> well not exactly wget http://www.ginguppin.de/files/minimo.tar.bz2
Jul 20 09:13:46 <kd8ikt> tar jvxf minimo.tar.bz2
Jul 20 09:13:59 <kd8ikt> i installed minimo
Jul 20 09:14:02 <MadTBone> ahhhh.....minimo
Jul 20 09:14:10 <MadTBone> how's it run?
Jul 20 09:14:11 <sontek> is there a way to use ASU apps in 2007.2?
Jul 20 09:14:17 <sontek> I'd like to use ASU keyboard 
Jul 20 09:14:49 <MadTBone> sontek: I don't know if 2007.2 can do QT
Jul 20 09:14:50 <kd8ikt> great, its a bit of a resource hog though so dont expect to run like 3 other apps and have good response
Jul 20 09:15:11 <MadTBone> kd8ikt: are you on ASU?
Jul 20 09:15:33 <kd8ikt> no never tried any firmware besides om 2007.2
Jul 20 09:15:51 <sontek> is the home/launcher section of ASU the final?  or will the UI be re-worked a bit?
Jul 20 09:16:08 <sontek> I like ASU's sms interface but the home section isn't very good compared to 2007.2
Jul 20 09:16:27 <sontek> i'm going to image with qtopia right now to see how well it works
Jul 20 09:16:29 <MadTBone> sontek: final?  I don't think that exists.... 
Jul 20 09:16:35 <kd8ikt> sontek: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/
Jul 20 09:16:44 <kd8ikt> top 3 are mine
Jul 20 09:17:30 <MadTBone> sontek: you're currently in ASU or 2007?
Jul 20 09:18:20 <kd8ikt> and who really cares about the home screen?
Jul 20 09:18:21 <sontek> MadTBone: 2007, but probably going to run ASU as my main just because SMS is so bad in 2007
Jul 20 09:19:07 <kd8ikt> lol sms is lame
Jul 20 09:19:09 <MadTBone> kd8ikt: I do...I can't remember what I have to do each day w/o looking at my schedule a dozen times...
Jul 20 09:19:30 <MadTBone> so events on home help a lot!
Jul 20 09:20:29 <sontek> I think 90% of the time i'm texting when using my phone
Jul 20 09:20:32 <MadTBone> sontek: you might want to go w/ ASU from 7/19 or 7/18 .... 7/20 seems broken (but I think 7/18's keyboard is borked...)
Jul 20 09:20:52 <kd8ikt> i could use an irc client on my phone
Jul 20 09:21:02 <kd8ikt> that'd be neat
Jul 20 09:21:06 <sontek> MadTBone: good to know, i'm wgetting 7/20 right now :P  i'll check out an earlier version
Jul 20 09:21:17 <Mirv> ok proper mixer settings found at http://freeyourphone.de/portal_v1/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=170&start=75#p3277
Jul 20 09:22:39 <MadTBone> ok....I'm out...'night everyone...
Jul 20 09:23:05 <Error323> cu gnite
Jul 20 09:23:21 <kd8ikt> bah
Jul 20 09:24:05 <Error323> kd8ikt: just ssh to your server with irssi on it? :P
Jul 20 09:24:14 <sontek> ok, I asked this earlier bug thennran out so I didn't see the replies... what do I do with the flash image for qtopia? do I need it? or do I just need the rootfs image
Jul 20 09:24:57 <sontek> heh, i'm going through screenshots on scap, looks like someone ported pidgin over
Jul 20 09:27:09 <polz> I remember seeing some photos of a neo with a bunch of cables and an USB hub in some mail on the mailing lists
Jul 20 09:27:11 <Error323> it looks like that a 480x640 screenshot of a desktop, i'm seeing xfce?
Jul 20 09:27:26 <polz> does anyone remember where I can get that ?
Jul 20 09:27:49 <polz> s/that/them/
Jul 20 09:27:49 <apt> polz meant: does anyone remember where I can get them ?
Jul 20 09:28:56 <Error323> test subst
Jul 20 09:29:02 <Error323> s/test/xxx
Jul 20 09:29:07 <Error323> s/test/xxx/
Jul 20 09:29:07 <apt> Error323 meant: s/xxx/xxx
Jul 20 09:29:13 <Error323> lol
Jul 20 09:29:24 <Error323> ^_^
Jul 20 09:36:43 <realityjumper> lo
Jul 20 09:41:04 <kd8ikt> hi
Jul 20 09:45:55 <sontek> what is the flash image for qtopia? 
Jul 20 09:46:10 <sontek> do I need it? or is the rootfs image enough?
Jul 20 09:50:13 <kd8ikt> ugh my understanding is they both can use the same kernel? but its the jffs rootfs that has to be flashed
Jul 20 09:54:49 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke * r1d1ab1a57d44 10/src/libraries/qtopia/qsoftmenubar.cpp: Revert "Revert "Revert "Place the QMenu relative to the widget for X11/Illume"""
Jul 20 09:54:49 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke * rad84ffff75f8 10/src/plugins/inputmethods/predictivekeyboard/ (5 files): [predictivekeyboard] Make it link with Qt/X11 by providing stubs for QWSInputMethod and QWSServer
Jul 20 09:54:49 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke * r84b918ef208b 10/src/general.pri: [predictivekeyboard] Add the predictive keyboard to the build for x11 and non-x11
Jul 20 09:54:51 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke * r9b0182956029 10/devices/ficgta01/src/plugins/phonevendors/ficgta01/vendor_ficgta01.cpp: [ficgta02] Set the sidetone to a minimum in the calypso
Jul 20 09:54:54 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke * rd94c3e404350 10/src/libraries/qtopia/qtopiaapplication.cpp: [x11] Make the Atom static to avoid roundtrips each time...
Jul 20 09:54:57 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke * r7222ef4cffe6 10/src/libraries/qtopia/qtopiaapplication.cpp: [x11] Change focus and keyboard hinting handling.
Jul 20 09:55:00 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke * r7a7a33fdc50e 10/src/libraries/qtopia/qtopiaapplication.cpp: [valgrind] Delete the life cycle manager before we delete the QtopiaApplicationData
Jul 20 09:55:03 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke * r5fb7b6bd0707 10/src/libraries/qtopia/qtopiaapplication.cpp: [x11] Get the atoms we use in one roundtrip.
Jul 20 09:55:06 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke * r38d2a3923ef4 10/src/server/server.pro: [server] Compile the predictivekeyboard into the server process for ASU
Jul 20 09:55:11 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke * r5a1a5204e9a4 10/src/server/phone/serverinterface/phonelauncher/phonelauncher_illume.cpp: [keyboard] Instaniate the Qtopia predictive keyboard on startup
Jul 20 09:55:14 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke * r27c914aa7529 10/src/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [x11] Move the XFakeKey code from qtopiainputevents_x11 to qwsinputmethod_x11
Jul 20 09:55:17 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke * r9511d39604b8 10/src/plugins/inputmethods/predictivekeyboard/qwsinputmethod_x11.cpp: [inputmethod] Prefix static variables with s_ (be conservative and avoid shadowing)
Jul 20 09:55:22 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke * r54dd2dad9819 10/src/libraries/qtopia/qtopiaapplication.cpp: [qtopia] Do not set the SOFT_MENU hint on inputmethod widgets
Jul 20 09:55:25 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke * rcaf2e6fde7f4 10/src/plugins/inputmethods/predictivekeyboard/keyboard.cpp: [keyboard] Set a more useful WindowTitle for Qt/X11
Jul 20 09:55:28 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke * r6c764ac60899 10/src/plugins/inputmethods/predictivekeyboard/keyboard.cpp: [keyboard] Bypass X11 for the various helper widgets/windows of the keyboard
Jul 20 09:55:33 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke * r2c29e8eb2eb8 10/src/plugins/inputmethods/predictivekeyboard/qwsinputmethod_x11.cpp: [inputmethod] Move the init of the XTest Extension out
Jul 20 09:55:36 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke * r272d15f1d220 10/src/plugins/inputmethods/predictivekeyboard/qwsinputmethod_x11.cpp: [inputmethods] Move sending a keysym into a separate function
Jul 20 09:55:39 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke * r536314fc4057 10/src/plugins/inputmethods/predictivekeyboard/qwsinputmethod_x11.cpp: [inputmethod] First attempt at sending strings
Jul 20 09:56:07 <kd8ikt> whoah
Jul 20 09:56:14 <sontek> someone is being productive
Jul 20 09:56:22 <sontek> whats with the revision numbers?
Jul 20 09:56:27 * kd8ikt considers getting a stylus finger implant
Jul 20 09:56:30 <sontek> is that a git thing?
Jul 20 09:56:41 <kd8ikt> yeah i think so
Jul 20 09:56:53 <kd8ikt> someone made a src commit
Jul 20 09:57:02 <kd8ikt> zecke
Jul 20 09:57:09 <sontek> I mean, are those revisions a git thing
Jul 20 09:57:16 <sontek> I've never seen revisions with letters in them :P
Jul 20 09:57:38 <kd8ikt> r(revisionnumber)
Jul 20 09:57:45 <kd8ikt> hex
Jul 20 09:58:26 <walrustown_> kd8ikt: I have a metal thumbpick that I use for stylusing, it's kind of like an implant :P
Jul 20 09:59:47 <kd8ikt> heh
Jul 20 10:00:04 <sontek> I just use my finger, first thing I did was put the stylus in a drawer :P
Jul 20 10:00:09 <sontek> that thing is way to big to be useful
Jul 20 10:00:16 <kd8ikt> i wanna play with the accellerometer but i dont know if my kernel is picking them up
Jul 20 10:00:31 <kd8ikt> even3 spills tons of garbage but event2 is silent
Jul 20 10:01:10 <bobkare> kd8ikt: somebody told me there's a kernel bug that means only one accelerometer will get picked up
Jul 20 10:01:36 <kd8ikt> thats fine for now
Jul 20 10:01:55 <kd8ikt> is there a console app to read and echo the data?
Jul 20 10:02:17 <kd8ikt> i installed gesd (gesture daemon)  but i dunno 
Jul 20 10:02:39 <kd8ikt> ran the echo config and it doesnt do anything
Jul 20 10:06:05 <doktoreas> hello everybody :D
Jul 20 10:08:17 <kd8ikt> http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Orrery
Jul 20 10:08:54 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r806ff1f63edc 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for fastjar-0.95
Jul 20 10:08:54 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rba04e3b2e433 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for cacao-0.98
Jul 20 10:08:55 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r847ab9bac662 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for classpath-0.93
Jul 20 10:08:55 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r64e6585df7cf 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for ecjsrc
Jul 20 10:08:57 <doktoreas> anyone using openmoko with italian phone carriers?
Jul 20 10:08:59 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rb4d6ae71e33a 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for cacao-0.98+hg20071001
Jul 20 10:09:02 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r017885c7a930 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for classpath-0.96.1
Jul 20 10:09:05 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rbdcabd4e081f 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for libgpepimc-0.9
Jul 20 10:09:08 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rf14adf88a78c 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for mono-1.2.5.1
Jul 20 10:09:11 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r0af2422b3b33 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for URI-1.35
Jul 20 10:09:14 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r5ee7771a9496 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for libtododb-0.11
Jul 20 10:09:17 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rf22a3d80d586 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for classpath-0.97.1
Jul 20 10:09:24 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rf92cdbf115ab 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for pcre-7.6
Jul 20 10:09:25 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rfd12ec4f183c 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for pycairo-1.4.0
Jul 20 10:09:28 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rf56dccc4afcf 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for pygtk-2.10.4
Jul 20 10:12:52 <adsllc> kd8ikt: I don't think it's a kernel thing.  Kill either X or neod and they both work for me.
Jul 20 10:13:30 <adsllc> kd8ikt: neod is opening everything in /dev/input/event* and just hangs on to it whether it uses it or not.
Jul 20 10:17:01 <kd8ikt> oh
Jul 20 10:17:28 <kd8ikt> so if i get it to start before them i might have a fighting chance
Jul 20 10:18:20 <adsllc> Maybe - although being first doesn't necessarily mean that a later open won't break things.
Jul 20 10:19:24 <adsllc> http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/daemons/neod/src/buttonactions.c
Jul 20 10:19:31 <adsllc> See neod_buttonactions_install_watcher() 
Jul 20 10:20:37 <adsllc> Also see http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/daemons/neod/README, where neod is described neod as throwaway code to be replaced.
Jul 20 10:23:08 <kd8ikt> ack cant get orrery to start
Jul 20 10:28:47 <kd8ikt> hah
Jul 20 10:28:57 <kd8ikt> damn *.dat file was misnamed
Jul 20 10:30:14 <kd8ikt> wow this is neat
Jul 20 10:37:21 <almien> where are ringtones/startup sound stored?
Jul 20 10:39:21 <kd8ikt> /usr/share/openmoko/sounds
Jul 20 10:40:04 <almien> thanks
Jul 20 10:40:45 <pantsd_> When I try to query enttime on the gsm modem I get back "EXT: I" what does that mean?
Jul 20 11:00:11 <kd8ikt> http://scap.linuxtogo.org/  <-- uploaded a pic of orrery (star map)
Jul 20 11:02:36 <Stroller> lol
Jul 20 11:02:44 <kd8ikt> neat eh?
Jul 20 11:02:48 <Stroller> I like your Wall-E wallpaper
Jul 20 11:03:24 <kd8ikt> i like it too 
Jul 20 11:08:14 <Openfree> must i use debug board to trace kernel printk log?
Jul 20 11:09:51 <balrog-kun> no, you can just read the dmesg too
Jul 20 11:14:55 <kd8ikt> you having a hard time reading the kernel printk's at boot also ;) 
Jul 20 11:15:16 <kd8ikt> i gotta say it again i love the resolution of this lil bugger
Jul 20 11:17:06 <kd8ikt> hm its not charging from the wall socket for some reason
Jul 20 11:17:22 <kd8ikt> root@om-gta02:~# apm
Jul 20 11:17:22 <kd8ikt> Off-line, battery status high: 68% (2d+16:15:00)
Jul 20 11:17:31 <kd8ikt> and its plugged into the wall!
Jul 20 11:18:11 <Openfree> balrog-kun,kd8ikt, can't do mesg, coz kernel panic at very early time, i'm trying to route thoese msg out
Jul 20 11:18:33 <kd8ikt> oh
Jul 20 11:19:01 <balrog-kun> kd8ikt: try plugging out and in
Jul 20 11:19:15 <kd8ikt> i did 
Jul 20 11:19:16 <balrog-kun> Openfree: use the debug board then, or kill X and you should see the dmesg on the screen
Jul 20 11:19:22 <balrog-kun> kd8ikt: no difference?
Jul 20 11:19:23 <kd8ikt> i'll try rebooting it with it already in
Jul 20 11:19:34 <kd8ikt> the usb icon apears
Jul 20 11:19:36 <balrog-kun> kd8ikt: maybe apm is lying
Jul 20 11:20:10 <kd8ikt> yeah its saying 2d's lol
Jul 20 11:20:13 <balrog-kun> hah i just noticed
Jul 20 11:20:16 <kd8ikt> 2 days my butt
Jul 20 11:20:20 <balrog-kun> it's rather optimistic
Jul 20 11:20:33 <kd8ikt> if its not plugged in when i go to sleep i wake up its dead
Jul 20 11:20:46 <kd8ikt> and thats only like 7-8 hrs
Jul 20 11:21:25 <kd8ikt> then again i ussually leave wifi on
Jul 20 11:27:18 <Openfree> balrog-kun, seems that's the only way out, i don't have tool to open the device currently, so i was thinking to output the msg via usb console?
Jul 20 11:27:57 <balrog-kun> i never succeeded at that
Jul 20 11:28:38 <balrog-kun> try a really small console font and use the framebuffer console
Jul 20 11:30:42 <Openfree> balrog-kun,thx, i do can see the log on screen, but i want those msg copy out
Jul 20 11:31:37 <Openfree> i'm try to boot from sd-card , but kernel panic at mout rootfs, due to can't find rootfs partion
Jul 20 11:31:53 <Openfree> i follow the wiki 
Jul 20 11:33:35 <kd8ikt> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Boot_from_sd_card#Step_1:_Change_your_kernel_settings ?
Jul 20 11:46:07 <Openfree> kd8ikt, thx, guess i find the problem, i use default kernel from daily build snapshot, and it build as modules.
Jul 20 11:46:14 <kd8ikt> is there a filemanager
Jul 20 11:46:28 <kd8ikt> you werent reading that wiki page?
Jul 20 11:49:05 <kd8ikt> found it http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/packages/armv4t/gpe-filemanager_0.30-r0_armv4t.ipk
Jul 20 11:49:59 <kd8ikt> gpe-filemanager
Jul 20 11:52:43 <fuzzyt> anyone know whats up with qtopia.net?
Jul 20 11:57:32 <kd8ikt> lol checkout opkg's list output
Jul 20 11:57:37 <kd8ikt> a52dec - 0.7.4-r1 - Library for reading some sort of media format.
Jul 20 11:57:43 <kd8ikt> heh
Jul 20 11:59:45 <kd8ikt> guess its not that funny
Jul 20 12:00:38 <almien> is there a working music-player for it?
Jul 20 12:01:16 <kd8ikt> yea
Jul 20 12:01:31 <kd8ikt> opkg install openmoko-mediaplayer2
Jul 20 12:01:31 <kd8ikt> wget http://abraxa.dyndns.org:81/random/openmoko-mediaplayer-theme.tar.bz2
Jul 20 12:01:31 <kd8ikt> tar xjf openmoko-mediaplayer-theme.tar.bz2 -C /usr/share/themes/Moko/gtk-2.0
Jul 20 12:01:31 <kd8ikt> rm openmoko-mediaplayer-theme.tar.bz2
Jul 20 12:01:59 <kd8ikt> needs the theme or else the buttons are really small... and iconless
Jul 20 12:02:09 <almien> ok thanks
Jul 20 12:02:29 <kd8ikt> i got that from http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner
Jul 20 12:03:17 <kd8ikt> grab minimo too while your at it
Jul 20 12:04:07 <almien> having trouble getting a reliable internet connection for it
Jul 20 12:04:13 <kd8ikt> oh
Jul 20 12:04:21 <almien> over USB connected to the eee (xandros) it worked once but not since
Jul 20 12:04:22 <kd8ikt> wifi?
Jul 20 12:04:57 <almien> spent a long time yesterday playing with wifi, no success
Jul 20 12:05:03 <kd8ikt> WPA? 
Jul 20 12:05:26 <kd8ikt> i made a lil script to conenct to my wifi <WPA2 PSK>
Jul 20 12:05:29 <almien> not really sure how to debug wifi.  I gave it the WEP key, and then I think my router refused to give out a DHCP lease
Jul 20 12:06:13 <almien> i.e. it couldn't even connect when I set the wifi to unencrypted
Jul 20 12:06:14 <kd8ikt> make an acceptable wpa_supplicant.conf file
Jul 20 12:06:16 <kd8ikt> wpa_supplicant -ieth0 -c/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf -B
Jul 20 12:06:16 <kd8ikt> sleep 4
Jul 20 12:06:20 <kd8ikt> udhcpc eth0
Jul 20 12:07:05 <kd8ikt> <-- thats my lil wlan start script in my home dir i exec when i'm at home  but i just need to add an extra entry in the wpa config when elsewere
Jul 20 12:07:08 * almien really needs some way of finding out where all his router's DHCP leases went, and how to free-up any that are unused
Jul 20 12:07:34 <kd8ikt> wifi can be picky at times but dont give up
Jul 20 12:08:27 <kd8ikt> i refrained from adding a wlan bootup entry cause it might cause issue
Jul 20 12:08:53 <kd8ikt> http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_WLAN
Jul 20 12:09:32 <kd8ikt> what type of key is your WEP?
Jul 20 12:09:37 <kd8ikt> hex or ascii
Jul 20 12:09:42 <kd8ikt> dunno if that matters
Jul 20 12:09:55 <kd8ikt> shouldnt use WEP anyway
Jul 20 12:09:57 <almien> hex.  I typed it as just the hex number in quotes
Jul 20 12:10:01 <kd8ikt> WPA or open 
Jul 20 12:10:25 * kd8ikt likes to crack wep in his spare time ;)
Jul 20 12:10:39 * almien would like to run an open network, but would want some sort of filter built-into router to stop the worst of the spam from my connection
Jul 20 12:10:39 <kd8ikt> and sometimes bruteforce WPA
Jul 20 12:11:03 <almien> do hex keys go in quotes in the wpa_supplicant?
Jul 20 12:11:11 * kd8ikt hate open networks with MAC filtering
Jul 20 12:11:40 <kd8ikt> dont think quotes are needed unless there are spaces
Jul 20 12:11:45 <almien> I meant content filter, like HTTP/SSH only
Jul 20 12:12:08 <almien> (anyway, it gets to "dchpdiscover", reties lots of times, then gives up saying it didn't get a lease - not sure if that means it connected to wifi properly)
Jul 20 12:12:09 <kd8ikt> well if the router had iptables i'm sure you could swing that
Jul 20 12:12:28 <kd8ikt> yeah its prolly not associating with the AP
Jul 20 12:12:53 <kd8ikt> that needs to happen before dhcp is given
Jul 20 12:13:13 <kd8ikt> i gotta go get ready i have a big day today
Jul 20 12:13:22 <kd8ikt> dayton ohio airshow
Jul 20 12:13:35 * kd8ikt puts on his sunday clothes
Jul 20 12:14:46 <kd8ikt> i also recomend the full qwerty keyboard http://www.ginguppin.de/node/15
Jul 20 12:14:59 <kd8ikt> need the stylus to use it but its great
Jul 20 12:15:21 <phrozen77> hi there - how usable is the freerunner in its current state?
Jul 20 12:15:52 <kd8ikt> http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Switching_Keyboards  <-- or add the needed symbols to the current keyboard
Jul 20 12:16:10 <almien> yeah, networking stuff is hampered by the regular keyboard not being able to type the 0 in eth0
Jul 20 12:16:38 <almien> and various scripts wanting to cut-off the usb network before opening eth0, means that SSH session drops
Jul 20 12:17:15 <almien> phrozen77: it runs some apps, makes phone calls, can do a bit of GPS stuff... 
Jul 20 12:17:24 <kd8ikt> phrozen77: currently the only issues i have is batterylife (power management,suspend/resume stuff) and the accellerometers arent totally used just yet
Jul 20 12:17:27 <phrozen77> sms do work too?
Jul 20 12:17:35 <almien> yes, text messages work
Jul 20 12:17:40 <phrozen77> nuff for me
Jul 20 12:17:43 <phrozen77> thanks
Jul 20 12:17:49 <kd8ikt> go buy one!
Jul 20 12:17:51 <kd8ikt> heh
Jul 20 12:17:53 <phrozen77> will do
Jul 20 12:17:56 <kd8ikt> hey phrozen77 
Jul 20 12:18:02 <almien> anyone know how many were sold so far?
Jul 20 12:18:06 <kd8ikt> http://scap.linuxtogo.org/
Jul 20 12:18:14 <kd8ikt> checkout those screen dumps
Jul 20 12:18:27 <kd8ikt> esp the first 4 wich are mine ;)
Jul 20 12:18:44 <CM> kd8ikt: Nice background image ;)
Jul 20 12:18:48 <kd8ikt> ;)
Jul 20 12:19:28 <kd8ikt> if ya install orrery be sure to check the .dat file's name it needs 2 p's and read the README/INSTALL
Jul 20 12:19:48 <kd8ikt> terrible its not an opkg yet
Jul 20 12:20:01 <CM> I like josch's screenshots too :)
Jul 20 12:24:43 <fspde> hi there
Jul 20 12:27:16 <josch> CM, what screenshots?
Jul 20 12:28:41 <CM> josch: on scap, first page
Jul 20 12:28:55 <CM> With xfce
Jul 20 12:29:25 <CM> Is there an install guide? :)
Jul 20 12:29:45 <CM> ~zap josch 
Jul 20 12:29:46 * apt takes out a cattle prod and gives josch a good jolt.
Jul 20 12:29:50 <josch> CM, i wrote a wiki page about it
Jul 20 12:30:01 <CM> Nice, I'll look at it
Jul 20 12:30:09 <josch> wiki/Debian
Jul 20 12:30:19 <CM> Danke
Jul 20 12:30:23 <josch> this stuff with gajim i did because of
Jul 20 12:30:26 <josch> some kiddies that
Jul 20 12:30:37 <josch> wanted to know wether they could run an instant messenger
Jul 20 12:30:59 <josch> after five minutes i gave them these screenshots of a fresh gajim install
Jul 20 12:31:07 <CM> Hehe
Jul 20 12:31:11 <josch> and despite being python it's usably fast! i was impressed
Jul 20 12:31:18 <CM> Cool
Jul 20 12:31:31 <josch> eh
Jul 20 12:31:38 <josch> despite being python PLUS gtk
Jul 20 12:31:39 <josch> :D
Jul 20 12:31:54 <CM> I've tried all the other images
Jul 20 12:32:14 <CM> Didn't have much luck with fso or underground
Jul 20 12:32:22 <CM> Or qtopia
Jul 20 12:37:56 <alx_> rwhitby, you here ?
Jul 20 12:38:04 <rwhitby> alx_: yep
Jul 20 12:38:13 <sirkha> is there a way, in gsm, to get the time?
Jul 20 12:38:31 <alx_> rwhitby, I investigated a bit
Jul 20 12:38:41 <almien> cool, think wifi is working for me now.  although when I'm logged in via usb network it seems reluctant to use the wifi for internet (seems to be trying to use usb instead even though usb isn't actually giving it internet access)
Jul 20 12:38:50 <alx_> about my issue on MokoMakefile
Jul 20 12:39:01 <alx_> but I think you could be smarter ^^
Jul 20 12:39:09 <alx_> I found two issues
Jul 20 12:39:19 <alx_> the first is with native binary names
Jul 20 12:39:27 <alx_> MokoMakefile expects dfu-util
Jul 20 12:39:57 <alx_> while BitBake recipe for dfu-util-native provides a dfu-util-blablablablablalong svn hash code
Jul 20 12:40:16 <rwhitby> hmm - that's a regression in the bitbake recipe then.
Jul 20 12:40:45 <rwhitby> alx_: which directory does bitbake put it in now?
Jul 20 12:41:03 <alx_> rwhitby, dfu-util ?
Jul 20 12:41:13 * rwhitby has been trying to get his GTA02 to even power-on successfully, so hasn't built anything recently.
Jul 20 12:41:21 <alx_> rwhitby, may I show you how I patched (works for me)
Jul 20 12:41:27 <rwhitby> alx_: yes, dfu-util-blahblahblah
Jul 20 12:41:35 <rwhitby> alx_: sure, pastebin.ca a patch
Jul 20 12:44:00 <alx_> http://pastebin.ca/1077494
Jul 20 12:44:55 <alx_> rwhitby, as you may see I put a * for dfu-util namechange
Jul 20 12:45:01 <alx_> the fullname is dfu-util-0.1+svnr4160
Jul 20 12:49:09 <rwhitby> mickeyl: why the long filename for dfu-util in staging in http://git.openembedded.net/?p=org.openembedded.dev.git;a=commitdiff;h=4e2fdcf6e9c7065cc1eb617afe50edf760ac7b67 ?
Jul 20 12:49:20 <rwhitby> alx_: the commit by mickeyl above is the cause of the problem.
Jul 20 12:49:47 <rwhitby> I would prefer that he revert the -${PV} part of the filename in that recipe
Jul 20 12:50:30 <mickeyl> what's the problem with that?
Jul 20 12:50:53 <rwhitby> well, it makes it hard for someone to automatically run that staged executable ...
Jul 20 12:51:07 <rwhitby> (e.g. MokoMakefile using the staged host dfu-util to flash the neo)
Jul 20 12:51:31 <rwhitby> it's a change from previous behaviour which was there for many months - why the change?
Jul 20 12:51:32 <mickeyl> ok, i'd rather solve with a symlink to the latest build (as we do with the kernels)
Jul 20 12:51:42 <rwhitby> symlink is fine with me :-)
Jul 20 12:51:47 <mickeyl> good. will do that now
Jul 20 12:51:53 <rwhitby> mickeyl: thx.
Jul 20 12:52:00 <alx_> rwhitby, what about the MACHINE I created ?
Jul 20 12:52:07 <rwhitby> alx_: that will solve that part.  now to look at the MACHINE stuff.
Jul 20 12:52:12 <alx_> ^^
Jul 20 12:52:47 <alx_> OE puts (for me) images in tmp/deploy/glibc/images/om-gta02/
Jul 20 12:53:25 <alx_> when I created a om-gta01 image OE put it in tmp/deploy/glibc/images/om-gta01/
Jul 20 12:53:41 <alx_> so I created that variable and changed the fixed name in MokoMakefile ^^
Jul 20 12:53:56 <rwhitby> alx_: ok, I can put om-gta01 in flash-neo-* and om-gta02 in flash-fr-*
Jul 20 12:54:39 <alx_> yes , I think that putting the variable ang getting runtime configuration was a better idea, but it's ok that way
Jul 20 12:54:49 <alx_> third, but not less important 
Jul 20 12:54:55 <rwhitby> alx_: that's a recent change too - as recent as 2008-06-03 it put gta01 images in neo1973
Jul 20 12:55:11 <alx_> ^^
Jul 20 12:56:15 <alx_> where to submit a patch for openmoko-devel-image.bb
Jul 20 12:56:34 <rwhitby> alx_: to openmoko trac
Jul 20 12:58:37 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03rwhitby * r26 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Makefile: Fix the image subdirectories. Mickey is going to add a symlink for dfu-util. Thx to alx_ for the bug report and suggested fixes.
Jul 20 13:09:47 <VDVsx> join #openmoko-gsoc
Jul 20 13:20:43 <almien> just a random question: blank root password, plus login via SSH over wifi, plus people will be using OM on open wifi -- surely this means anyone can do anything to your phone?
Jul 20 13:21:54 <SpeedEvil> almien: the more users of openmoko the better.
Jul 20 13:24:15 <almien> so you can never connect your phone to any network, lest your phone be hacked?
Jul 20 13:24:49 <SpeedEvil> I wasn't being serious. You'd want to add a password.
Jul 20 13:25:19 <mjr> :D
Jul 20 13:29:00 <almien> would that mean you have to type the password every time to boot the phone?
Jul 20 13:29:47 <mjr> no.
Jul 20 13:30:49 <almien> so just do it with passwd as root?
Jul 20 13:32:30 <almien> hmm, fish:// protocol is constantly transferring 0-byte files to OM (copy a file to it and after some disconnections/retries it ends up with 0 byte file on OM)
Jul 20 13:51:28 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke * r8c6a9dbf2709 10/src/plugins/inputmethods/predictivekeyboard/qwsinputmethod_x11.cpp: [inputmethod] Special case the ' ' string and pick a KeySym for it
Jul 20 13:51:28 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke * r4a16f2256ce0 10/src/plugins/inputmethods/predictivekeyboard/keyboard.cpp: [predictivekeyboard] Add code to play with. Use the Shape Extension to get popup shape
Jul 20 13:54:20 <tomjoad440> can anybody tell me what I'm doing wrong with MokoMakefile where I get "ERROR: Unable to open conf/bitbake.conf"?
Jul 20 14:13:06 <SWAT> first off: congratulations on the freerunner release!
Jul 20 14:14:36 <SWAT> are there any 'pouches' known which you can hang on your belt and which can handle the freerunner? This is something the HTC models have and it's quite useful.
Jul 20 14:16:21 <jtickle> I'd also be interested in FreeRunner "accessories"... particularly something ugly and leather to protect the case and display
Jul 20 14:18:31 <SWAT> jtickle: s/ugly\ and//
Jul 20 14:19:06 <jtickle> ;-)
Jul 20 14:19:12 <jtickle> I don't much care for cell phone cases
Jul 20 14:19:27 <jtickle> but I prefer them to, you know, buying new parts after the ones I have get scratched
Jul 20 14:20:49 <SWAT> well, the freerunner is quite large, which means you will probably keep it in your jacket. Let's say it's summer and you don't wear a jacket.
Jul 20 14:22:06 <jtickle> oh indeed, I wouldn't mind a clip either
Jul 20 14:22:57 <jtickle> I'd really like something I can stick to my window or dashboard that would hold the OM for GPS
Jul 20 14:23:03 <jtickle> also useful for "handsfree" operation
Jul 20 14:23:20 <jtickle> perhaps some sort of cool clip could be designed by the community that could work in both ways somehow
Jul 20 14:23:26 <Stroller> what battery life are people getting? Someone's asking me, but mine's been tethered all week, so I haven't needed to try suspend or anything like that.
Jul 20 14:24:18 <jtickle> Stroller, in my very limited experience it looks like it will need a nightly charge
Jul 20 14:24:44 <Stroller> I'd be completely happy with that, TBH.
Jul 20 14:24:53 <Stroller> Long term, even.
Jul 20 14:25:05 <jtickle> Stroller, I played with the GPS for the better part of yesterday and was impressed with how long it lasted... made it pretty much for a whole 6-hour trip, and for longer than that you could get a cig lighter adapter
Jul 20 14:25:06 <bumbl> Stroller: as far as I have read it were ~48h, but I haven't tried it myself - I use it too much every day 
Jul 20 14:25:16 <jtickle> and I was messing with it the whole time so it didn't really get to go to power management
Jul 20 14:26:06 <jtickle> although, I'm looking at the TangoGPS code to see if there's a way to reduce CPU usage when it's not in the foreground
Jul 20 14:26:32 <jtickle> am also thinking about making a "map-pack" generator for OpenStreetMaps, as I will not be able to get 3G service
Jul 20 14:27:20 <alx_> where should I define which locale has to be used 
Jul 20 14:27:25 <Stroller> bumbl: is that 48h with suspend? I couldn't find any figures > 21h on the mailing list
Jul 20 14:27:42 <alx_> (when building an fr mage)
Jul 20 14:27:55 <bumbl> Stroller: with suspend and FSO
Jul 20 14:28:00 <Stroller> TY
Jul 20 14:28:39 <alx_> what are the differences between FSO/ASU /OM ? I just get that differences are in packages installed
Jul 20 14:28:42 <alx_> am I wrong ?
Jul 20 14:29:03 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rf6409805b084 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-qtopia-x11.bb: [openmoko-qtopia-x11] Change the sequence of RDEPENDS in task-openmoko-qtopia-x11
Jul 20 14:29:03 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r589c1fd3aba0 10/packages/qtopia-phone/qtopia-phone-x11_git.bb: [openmoko] Assassin need Tags.
Jul 20 14:29:04 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r54dd9ed7c27e 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for fastjar-0.95
Jul 20 14:29:05 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r4adff8f7d6dd 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for cacao-0.98
Jul 20 14:29:08 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rb75e7cf5d8ca 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for classpath-0.93
Jul 20 14:29:11 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r70fcc9586b42 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for ecjsrc
Jul 20 14:29:14 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r3dab984f223f 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for cacao-0.98+hg20071001
Jul 20 14:29:17 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r74381e7f06b1 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for classpath-0.96.1
Jul 20 14:29:20 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r8e439b651d97 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for libgpepimc-0.9
Jul 20 14:29:23 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rfbb6f6b19222 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for mono-1.2.5.1
Jul 20 14:29:28 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r5fdf918fc8f3 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for URI-1.35
Jul 20 14:29:31 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rcc9881569695 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for libtododb-0.11
Jul 20 14:29:34 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rff5d535e96a0 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for classpath-0.97.1
Jul 20 14:29:39 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r1db6969c314c 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for pcre-7.6
Jul 20 14:29:42 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * raa25ece36d46 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for pycairo-1.4.0
Jul 20 14:29:45 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r855696a41e6c 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for pygtk-2.10.4
Jul 20 14:30:27 <Stroller> alx_: you might find different images use a different kernel package, or different sources, configuration. That's where all the suspend/resume dev will be going on.
Jul 20 14:30:56 <alx_> I see
Jul 20 14:31:20 <alx_> Stroller, I see
Jul 20 14:31:54 <alx_> I'm working on building a custom image (packages/configuration) to have my FR with the BARE MINIMUM
Jul 20 14:32:08 <alx_> as I didn't find something similar already on OE
Jul 20 14:32:30 <TAsn> alx_, bare minimum could be something fun to have.
Jul 20 14:33:01 <alx_> I mean: kernel -> glibc -> shell -> X
Jul 20 14:33:06 <alx_> nothing more
Jul 20 14:33:09 <Fossi> alx_: what do you consider the bare minimum?
Jul 20 14:33:25 <Fossi> ah, i for example wouldn't really include X ;)
Jul 20 14:33:26 <alx_> oh.. dropbear :)
Jul 20 14:33:29 <bumbl> alx_: the openmoko image uses gtk+, asu uses qtopia +x11, fso is itself only a framework which should be toolkitagnostic 
Jul 20 14:33:36 <TAsn> alx_, i know, well i mean even without x
Jul 20 14:33:41 <Stroller> Yeah, so it boots straight into framebuffer terminal & the user has to write his own bash script to send AT commands to the modem if he wants to make a call. 
Jul 20 14:33:42 <TAsn> just like arch linux
Jul 20 14:33:43 <Stroller> :D
Jul 20 14:34:00 <TAsn> you install what ever you went, even the obvious stuff.
Jul 20 14:34:05 <Fossi> who want's to use the moko as a phone anyway ;)
Jul 20 14:34:06 <TAsn> want*
Jul 20 14:34:12 <bumbl> <alx_> I mean: kernel -> glibc -> shell -> X; that would be the FSO image
Jul 20 14:34:30 <TAsn> Fossi, i bought it so i will have bash everywhere i go.
Jul 20 14:34:36 <TAsn> ;0
Jul 20 14:34:43 <alx_> so, instead on cutting things off from openmoko-devel-image
Jul 20 14:34:52 <alx_> I cam inherit fso and add things to it ?
Jul 20 14:34:53 <Fossi> mobile rootshell, yeah ;)
Jul 20 14:35:05 <alx_> am I right ?
Jul 20 14:35:10 * jtickle has no gsm service yet and has found the moko quite useful anyway ;-)
Jul 20 14:35:15 <Fossi> i didn't even have a sim card in yet :D
Jul 20 14:35:21 <alx_> me too
Jul 20 14:35:33 <bumbl> alx_: afaik there is at the moment no application launcher implemented (only a dialer to make calls)
Jul 20 14:35:48 <bumbl> so basically: no, not at the moment
Jul 20 14:36:17 <bumbl> it might have changed since I have used it the last time though
Jul 20 14:36:51 <alx_> bumbl, are you answering me ?
Jul 20 14:37:06 <bumbl> yes
Jul 20 14:37:15 <alx_> I don't need app launcher
Jul 20 14:37:30 <alx_> I just want to launch ONE app full-screen
Jul 20 14:37:38 <alx_> with two buttons widget
Jul 20 14:37:38 <bumbl> which app?
Jul 20 14:37:49 <alx_> a python app we're developing
Jul 20 14:38:01 <alx_> lol developing TWO BUTTONS app ^^
Jul 20 14:38:35 <alx_> I mean: we're thinking about using FR as base for a device
Jul 20 14:38:40 <Stroller> A phone for kids? "Mom" "Dad"
Jul 20 14:38:51 <alx_> Stroller, similar to
Jul 20 14:38:52 <alx_> rotfl
Jul 20 14:38:54 <bumbl> oh, i don't know if you can launch anything except the dialer at the moment, but just try or contact mickeyl who afaik develops fso
Jul 20 14:39:05 <Stroller> Actually, I thought of a great feature for parental phone management recently
Jul 20 14:39:16 <Stroller> I was at this customer's house
Jul 20 14:39:22 <Stroller> And she took this call
Jul 20 14:39:41 <alx_> we need to build custom expansion, my partner is very doubt on where to connect :'(
Jul 20 14:39:48 <Stroller> And she yells out the back garden, "Dave, your Mom says you have to go home in 5 minutes."
Jul 20 14:39:55 <Stroller> "She's been trying to call you"
Jul 20 14:40:03 <Stroller> And the kids says "I know"
Jul 20 14:40:12 <alx_> we are good in writing software/building distro 
Jul 20 14:40:21 <Stroller> He was ignoring the call because it was his Mom, and he didn't want to go home
Jul 20 14:40:33 <alx_> but we have no glue on electronic design (just a minimal bare minimum)
Jul 20 14:40:38 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r828871eba7c2 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/convert.py: ogsmd: add ucs2_hex_to_string converter
Jul 20 14:40:39 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rb824a18bd963 10/framework/ (7 files in 5 dirs): ogsmd: add org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.{Messagebook|Phonebook}Ready signals and associate Get methods.
Jul 20 14:41:01 <fspde> am i right, that atm there is a bug in the firmware of the ti calypso that might prevent some SIM cards from registering with the phone?
Jul 20 14:41:16 <Stroller> So I thought, if you got your kids a Frererunner, you could program it so that everytime the kid ignores a call from his parents it notches up mark in a little logfile somewhere
Jul 20 14:41:16 <alx_> btw, how may I change FR locale ?
Jul 20 14:41:31 <alx_> actually I found no LANG / LANGUAGE variable
Jul 20 14:42:01 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r411187b165d1 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/abstract/channel.py: ogsmd: add abstract modem channel implementic some basic stuff helpful for derived channels
Jul 20 14:42:05 <Stroller> And then when one of the kid's mates calls, it randomly drops the call (like doesn't even ring) if there's a mark in this logfile
Jul 20 14:42:31 <alx_> Stroller, ahah nice ^^
Jul 20 14:42:33 <SpeedEvil> Doesn't work if phones are cheap.
Jul 20 14:42:51 <SpeedEvil> They just get another.
Jul 20 14:43:09 <alx_> a 8 years old kid cannot buy a phone alone
Jul 20 14:43:21 <alx_> it could be for a 14/18 young
Jul 20 14:43:40 <Stroller> Yeah, this kid was maybe 10, I gues
Jul 20 14:43:42 <Stroller> guess
Jul 20 14:43:54 <bumbl> Stroller: I would think more about something like if the kid ignores their parents call the freerunner should play a sound file over the loudspeaker telling the kid "we know everything! mind grounding"
Jul 20 14:44:04 <alx_> rotfl
Jul 20 14:44:06 <Stroller> lol
Jul 20 14:44:29 <alx_> does anyone know how may I connect to the debug connector ?
Jul 20 14:44:38 <alx_> Voltages/ current/ data channel available ?
Jul 20 14:46:29 <SpeedEvil> On the wiki alx
Jul 20 14:46:56 <alx_> SpeedEvil, there I just find a name for every pin
Jul 20 14:46:58 <SpeedEvil> There are serials, and JTAG
Jul 20 14:47:05 <alx_> serials ?
Jul 20 14:47:08 <SpeedEvil> What are you hoping to do?
Jul 20 14:47:10 <alx_> I didn't see them
Jul 20 14:47:27 <alx_> extend FR with some kind of serial HW
Jul 20 14:47:56 <alx_> I want to acquire with the FR some signals
Jul 20 14:48:17 <alx_> and the sensor I want to develop need to be able to acquire
Jul 20 14:48:57 <alx_> SpeedEvil, are you good in electronic design ?
Jul 20 14:49:03 <SpeedEvil> alexxy: does it have to fit int he case?
Jul 20 14:49:06 <SpeedEvil> alx:
Jul 20 14:49:13 <alx_> no
Jul 20 14:49:16 <alx_> well, yes
Jul 20 14:49:22 <alx_> it has to fit a modified case
Jul 20 14:49:37 <SpeedEvil> What are you trying to connect?
Jul 20 14:49:44 <alx_> nothing real
Jul 20 14:49:47 <alx_> I've to build
Jul 20 14:49:54 <alx_> may we speak in que ?
Jul 20 14:50:44 <SpeedEvil> Or pop over to ##electronics
Jul 20 14:50:50 <alx_> oh ok
Jul 20 15:05:26 <loufoque> it's funny how the mass market release, which was supposed to be targeted at end-users, is said to not be stable even for experts.
Jul 20 15:06:07 <malik1972> to be honest, i am also a little bit disappointed
Jul 20 15:08:06 <malik1972> at least concerning the gps issue 
Jul 20 15:13:06 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke * re72bd20a4ad2 10/src/plugins/inputmethods/predictivekeyboard/predictivekeyboard.pro: [predicitivekeyboard] Make it link again after the qwsinputmethod_x11.cpp changes
Jul 20 15:13:06 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke * rb3d1d38877b5 10/src/server/phone/serverinterface/phonelauncher/phonelauncher_illume.cpp: [keyboard] Do not create a instance of the virtual keyboard for QTOPIA_NO_VIRTUAL_KEYBOARD is set
Jul 20 15:22:33 <loufoque> the freerunner has three OSes (OM2007.2, ASU and FSO)
Jul 20 15:22:49 <loufoque> how come that is not clearly explained in introductory pages on the wiki?
Jul 20 15:24:20 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * race69f9fe758 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade Qtopia to get the predictive keyboard and virtual keyboard changes
Jul 20 15:24:20 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rad0f03e367e9 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcdates.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade EFL to the 18th of July to get the virtual keyboard changes
Jul 20 15:24:20 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r1ea3b7aa1d13 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade illume to handle the showing/hiding of external virtual keyboards
Jul 20 15:24:50 <balrog-kun> because everyone preferred to ask why it is so rather than bother to exaplain :P
Jul 20 15:25:14 <malik1972> one more question
Jul 20 15:25:36 <malik1972> is there an archive concerning the cia bot messages?
Jul 20 15:26:13 <linuxxee> Failed to download http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/all/Packages.gz, error 0
Jul 20 15:26:23 <linuxxee> all downloads say this
Jul 20 15:26:37 <linuxxee> i cant update for some reason
Jul 20 15:27:12 <linuxxee> maybe a port on the router 
Jul 20 15:27:19 <linuxxee> heeellllppp
Jul 20 15:27:22 <linuxxee> lol
Jul 20 15:27:57 <linuxxee> sig check fails 
Jul 20 15:28:16 <linuxxee> i think it downloads
Jul 20 15:36:25 <malik1972> i got it
Jul 20 15:37:20 <bumbl> linuxxee: that is normal, i do get it too the first few runs of opkg upgrade
Jul 20 15:37:33 <bumbl> after some tries it succeeds in downloading
Jul 20 15:37:48 <linuxxee> how do i tell if its completely updated an upgraded
Jul 20 15:37:53 <bumbl> s/upgrade/updae
Jul 20 15:38:02 <bumbl> *update
Jul 20 15:38:11 <linuxxee> how do i tell if its completely updated an upgraded
Jul 20 15:38:19 <leinirAWAY> upgraded, you'll know if it does nothing at all when you call the opkg upgrade command :)
Jul 20 15:38:32 <leinirAWAY> well, or rather, it'll sit there, and then just return to the prompt :)
Jul 20 15:38:42 <linuxxee> Failed to download http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/neo1973/Packages.sig, error 0
Jul 20 15:38:49 <linuxxee> 9 of those
Jul 20 15:39:11 <bumbl> there are no .sig @ the openmoko server so this is fine
Jul 20 15:39:44 <linuxxee> can i check a certain file to see the version #
Jul 20 15:40:14 <linuxxee> Failed to download http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/Packages.gz, error 0
Jul 20 15:40:21 <bumbl> i don't know, opkg sucks at the moment
Jul 20 15:40:46 <linuxxee> will ther be new stuff if it completes?
Jul 20 15:41:58 <almien> I have a wireless connection working - but OM can only connect to internet if usb0 connection is down - is there somewhere you can tell it which interface to use for connecting to internet?
Jul 20 15:42:34 <Fossi> linuxxee: no, only new versions
Jul 20 15:42:58 <Fossi> to install new stuff you need to opkg install yourself or flash with a new image
Jul 20 15:43:04 <kdubois> almien: you probably have two default routes, configure your iptables
Jul 20 15:49:52 <kdubois> what would be more helpful, working on the fso, or on the asu? 
Jul 20 15:51:24 * balrog-kun votes for fso.. if it only wasn't python...
Jul 20 15:51:38 <bobkare> kdubois: Uh, what's iptables got to do with routing? Surely it's better to just remove the wrong default route
Jul 20 15:52:07 <newb> anyone figured out the ideal mixer settings for making calls on the GTA02?
Jul 20 15:52:23 <newb> i think i may have come close to it.... :)
Jul 20 15:52:24 <newb> problem is
Jul 20 15:52:32 <newb> the voice breaks towards the end
Jul 20 15:52:45 <newb> the entire sentence just chops off at the end
Jul 20 15:53:19 <kdubois> bobkare: meh, they're kinda all the same thing in my head. i suppose route is an entirely different program than iptables
Jul 20 15:54:31 <bobkare> kdubois: quite a bit of difference indeed
Jul 20 15:55:12 <kdubois> well, they both have to do with getting packets where they need to be
Jul 20 15:55:50 <Kensan> kdubois: iptables is not needed for that.
Jul 20 15:56:13 <Kensan> kdubois: iptables or rather netfilter is packet filtering.
Jul 20 15:56:23 <kdubois> sigh, i know. i said the wrong thing up there
Jul 20 15:57:01 <BBishop> how could I get to be a opnmoko intern ? :|
Jul 20 15:58:14 <PBeck> ahoi
Jul 20 16:02:52 <BBishop> anybody ? :|
Jul 20 16:03:38 <mw|> BBishop: find a project, and send patch-set to the author, and that pretty much will make a intern fast I guess
Jul 20 16:04:06 <BBishop> ok, where can I find a project list ?
Jul 20 16:05:39 <zedstar_> projects.openmoko.org
Jul 20 16:05:40 <pyknite> BBishop: http://projects.openmoko.org/
Jul 20 16:06:46 <BBishop> ( you guys need to get the certificate from a known authority )
Jul 20 16:07:06 <almien> media-player's volume control is gesture-controlled?
Jul 20 16:12:58 <newb> anyone know how i can get the time to appear on the top title bar?
Jul 20 16:13:15 <newb> it would be really nice if that could happen instead of getting a big clock on the Home screen
Jul 20 16:13:29 <Kensan> BBishop: I suspect to become a succesfull intern you should figure that out on your own..
Jul 20 16:18:26 <peepsalot> anyone played with bootchart on freerunner?
Jul 20 16:18:51 <balrog-kun> yes, see openmoko-devel
Jul 20 16:19:03 <BBishop> Kensan, I doubt it.
Jul 20 16:20:42 <Kensan> BBIshop: I was talking about the part to figure out how to become an intern.
Jul 20 16:21:21 <BBishop> me too.
Jul 20 16:23:56 <lollydays> is there a walkthrough on flashing the ASU?
Jul 20 16:24:52 <Kensan> BBishop: well finding the appropriate email address to send your application to should be doable.
Jul 20 16:27:04 <T0o0T> @lollydays I think you need this: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_Openmoko#Actually_flashing_things_into_the_device
Jul 20 16:27:32 <lollydays> T0o0T: gracias
Jul 20 16:30:20 <almien> thanks
Jul 20 16:32:54 <lollydays> T0o0T: which .jffs2 file should I download? http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080720/
Jul 20 16:36:31 <jag_> hello im looking to develop some music synthesis free software...can i take microphone input, apply some fx (like in the SAW movie) and then output it to the phone call system so that it goes to the caller as a processed voice not my original voice..is this possible?
Jul 20 16:39:16 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r49a955289465 10/packages/initscripts/ (initscripts-1.0/openmoko/led-trigger initscripts_1.0.bb): [openmoko] Add start up script for trigger AUX led
Jul 20 16:39:37 <mmontour> jag_: yes, that should be possible. You can re-route the mic to ADC, and send the DAC output to the GSM chipset. 
Jul 20 16:40:19 <jag_> wow! thank you mmontour
Jul 20 16:41:15 <mmontour> Start by looking at the "Neo1973 Audio Subsystem" wiki page and the wm8753 datasheet. 
Jul 20 16:43:38 <lollydays> i'm trying to flash the ASU and i'm getting "more than one DFU capable USB device found"
Jul 20 16:43:42 <lollydays> why?
Jul 20 16:44:07 <mmontour> lollydays: you probably have a dfu-capable bluetooth adapter on the usb bus
Jul 20 16:44:27 <lollydays> mmontour, it didn't give me that last time I flashed...
Jul 20 16:44:59 <lollydays> weird, now it's gone
Jul 20 16:44:59 <mmontour> try to list the devices that it's seeing. The Freerunner is (IIRC) 0x1d50/0x5119
Jul 20 16:45:38 <lollydays> mmontour, i also have  [0x0a5c:0x2000]
Jul 20 16:46:09 <lollydays> oh crap, it is probably the bluetooth becuase last time i did it I switched off the wireless on my lappy
Jul 20 16:46:19 <lollydays> thanks, mmontour
Jul 20 16:49:26 <newb> dumb question: how do i playback songs with the media player? where does it look for songs?
Jul 20 16:49:28 <jag_> can i touch the screen and activate ui controls with my fingers instead of the stylus? and is freerunner multi-touch..will i get 2 x and y s if i touch 2 different locations on the screen? thank you
Jul 20 16:51:26 <malik1972> newb: try to make a playlist and add files
Jul 20 16:52:03 <newb> malik1972: where do i put those files?
Jul 20 16:52:14 <newb> malik1972: u mean i make a playlist on the host machine?
Jul 20 16:52:17 <malik1972> newb: on sd?
Jul 20 16:52:51 <lollydays> trying to flash the ASU, I'm getting [#######dfu_download error -110, any ideas
Jul 20 16:53:06 <newb> malik1972: i got it
Jul 20 16:53:07 <newb> :)
Jul 20 16:53:11 <newb> not very intuitive
Jul 20 16:53:12 <newb> but i got it
Jul 20 16:53:18 <igor321> yo! the 2007.2 media player works on ASU, right?
Jul 20 16:53:20 <malik1972> newb: i know ...
Jul 20 16:54:11 <malik1972> lollydays: check that your files are correct downloaded
Jul 20 16:55:11 <malik1972> igor321: try it ... opkg list | grep player
Jul 20 16:55:23 <lollydays> malik1972: what do you mean
Jul 20 16:55:39 <igor321> malik1972: can't without the freerunner :)
Jul 20 16:55:57 <malik1972> igor321: you dont have one?
Jul 20 16:56:28 <igor321> malik1972: unfortunately no, and who knows when i'll get one
Jul 20 16:56:49 <igor321> i did order like three weeks ago :)
Jul 20 16:56:59 <malik1972> do u have a neo?
Jul 20 16:57:04 <ajbrun> igor321 - where from?
Jul 20 16:57:10 <ajbrun> europe?
Jul 20 16:57:13 <ajbrun> trubox?
Jul 20 16:57:15 <igor321> ajbrun: form pulster
Jul 20 16:57:18 <ajbrun> k#
Jul 20 16:57:30 <newb> malik1972: does it playback mp3? or do i have to playback ogg?
Jul 20 16:57:31 <igor321> but i also tried ordering from the french guys
Jul 20 16:57:38 <ajbrun> true box ones are being delayed in china apparently because of the olympic games
Jul 20 16:57:43 <igor321> they were also out of stock
Jul 20 16:57:45 <ajbrun> they said the same is happening everywhere
Jul 20 16:57:49 <malik1972> igro321: mp3 no problem
Jul 20 16:57:57 <ajbrun> mine is being sent on 28th now i think
Jul 20 16:58:17 <igor321> ajbrun: it's still a long time, funny how it works :)
Jul 20 16:58:22 <lollydays> malik1972... downloaded the .bin file again and it still gives me the download error -110
Jul 20 16:58:36 <malik1972> igor321: you can try neo-qemu, install things on sd and test it
Jul 20 16:59:09 <igor321> malik1972: i did try it, but i gave up when i couldn't try ASU on it
Jul 20 16:59:19 <igor321> i have to be patient i guess
Jul 20 16:59:21 <malik1972> lollydays: konsole command of failure?
Jul 20 16:59:32 <igor321> did any of you try installing the media player on asu?
Jul 20 16:59:48 <lollydays> malik1972: I'm not sure what you're saying
Jul 20 17:00:02 <newb> malik1972: not playing mp3
Jul 20 17:00:10 <malik1972> lollydays: dfu-util ...
Jul 20 17:00:36 <lollydays> malik1972: do you mean I should get a new copy of dfu-util?
Jul 20 17:00:38 <malik1972> newb: mine played mp3, maybe you have to install some libs
Jul 20 17:00:58 <malik1972> lollydays: no, give us more informations
Jul 20 17:01:31 <malik1972> lollydays: copy your commands, warnings into a pastebin site
Jul 20 17:01:35 <newb> malik1972: getting gstreamer errors any idea which plugins?
Jul 20 17:02:35 <lollydays> malik1972: http://pastebin.com/d482ce841
Jul 20 17:02:35 <malik1972> newb: i am not sure, try "opkg list | grep mp3"
Jul 20 17:02:42 <newb> hmmmm
Jul 20 17:02:42 <newb> ok
Jul 20 17:03:29 <malik1972> lollydays: you should use "-a kernel"!!
Jul 20 17:04:07 <lollydays> malik1972: I was just following the wiki....
Jul 20 17:04:11 <lollydays> so what's the full command then?
Jul 20 17:04:16 <Zorkman> opkg update fails (404 errors) but opkg upgrade does not, anyone an idea how this can be?
Jul 20 17:04:46 <lollydays> instead of u-boot, kernel?
Jul 20 17:04:54 <malik1972> yepp
Jul 20 17:05:05 <lollydays> how come the wiki says otherwise?
Jul 20 17:05:38 <malik1972> http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_the_Neo_FreeRunner
Jul 20 17:05:53 <malik1972> give me the url of the wiki
Jul 20 17:06:25 <lollydays> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_Openmoko#Actually_flashing_things_into_the_device
Jul 20 17:06:28 <lollydays> why are there two pages???
Jul 20 17:06:48 <rivalarrival> Because it's community edited?
Jul 20 17:07:11 <malik1972> lollydays: you see the difference between uboot images and uImages?
Jul 20 17:07:38 <malik1972> rivalarrival: nevertheless he made the mistake in this case
Jul 20 17:07:40 <lollydays> um... not really
Jul 20 17:07:49 <rivalarrival> lollydays: The command you need is the second one on the Flashing_Openmoko page...
Jul 20 17:08:03 <malik1972>  this one ./dfu-util -a u-boot -R -D u-boot-gta01bv3-r8_70124c2602ae2d4c5d3dba05b482d91548242de8_0_2040.bin 
Jul 20 17:08:13 <malik1972> says flash uboot
Jul 20 17:08:23 <lollydays> i see
Jul 20 17:08:31 <rivalarrival> But you're trying to flash the kernel - the uImage
Jul 20 17:08:34 <malik1972> and this one ./dfu-util -a kernel -R -D ./uImage-2.6.21.1-moko10-r0_0_1883_0-fic-gta01.bin -> kernel
Jul 20 17:08:46 <lollydays> i'm totally confused as to what to download, I'm at http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080720/
Jul 20 17:09:48 <goldenhawk> I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong here.  I set up gprs on my phone, but almost never works when it does its chat script stuff. :/
Jul 20 17:09:49 <malik1972> lollydays: but dont hesitate to ask, i was only able to answer as i asked others here
Jul 20 17:10:03 <goldenhawk> If ever it's in a state where the chat scripts work it never fails to connect.
Jul 20 17:10:04 <lollydays> malik1972: thanks
Jul 20 17:10:09 <rivalarrival> Yeah, that had me confused to.  You need something that ends in jffs2 (that's the rootfs, should be about 56 meg) and a file that starts with uImage- (should be about 200k)
Jul 20 17:10:43 <lollydays> rivalarrival: not a uboot- ?
Jul 20 17:10:45 <rivalarrival> the uImage is flashed to kernel; the jffs2 file is flashed to rootfs
Jul 20 17:10:58 <Zorkman> lollydays: if there is a qtopia-11 in the name it is the ASU, if there is a "devel" in de name, then it will be 2007.2
Jul 20 17:10:59 <lollydays> ok, so I don't want to change the uboot?
Jul 20 17:11:06 <rivalarrival> AFAIK, uboot replaces the NAND boot loader.
Jul 20 17:11:12 <cjb> no, uboot is the firmware, you don't need to replace that.
Jul 20 17:11:18 <lollydays> ok.
Jul 20 17:11:32 <Zorkman> cjb: he doesn't need to do it, but when his battery dies he will wish he had done it...
Jul 20 17:11:52 <malik1972> rivalarrival: thats right for flashing ... installing "images" to microsd is differnt, there you have to untar a rootfs
Jul 20 17:11:54 <lollydays> Zorkman? 
Jul 20 17:12:12 <cjb> Zorkman: oh, is there a good reason to upgrade uboot from the factory version on FR, then?
Jul 20 17:12:13 <rivalarrival> malik1972: I was actually about to ask about that. :-)
Jul 20 17:12:16 * cjb didn't know that.
Jul 20 17:12:22 <goldenhawk> Zorkman: What do you mean?  There's a benefit to upgrading uboot?
Jul 20 17:13:02 <Zorkman> cjb: i could be wrong, but i thought that the 10 patches that werner made last week only work with latest uboot
Jul 20 17:13:18 <Zorkman> those are for preventing the freerunner from drawing too much current during the startup process
Jul 20 17:13:26 <balrog-kun> there's always benefit to running up-to-date u-boot, this time you get progper battery charging and many other goodies
Jul 20 17:13:31 <Zorkman> so you can boot with only 100mA available
Jul 20 17:13:45 <malik1972> goldenhawk: sure ... for instance uboot doesnt support sdhc but i hopeit will in future
Jul 20 17:13:47 <Zorkman> when enough is initialised the freerunner can switch to 500mA or 1
Jul 20 17:13:54 <Zorkman> otherwise it would never boot
Jul 20 17:14:16 <Zorkman> g2g eat now, if you want a link to the mail where werner posted it just pm me, i'll look it up when i come back
Jul 20 17:14:37 <rivalarrival> Zorkman, balrog-kun: Thanks... Didn't know that!
Jul 20 17:14:41 <goldenhawk> malik1972: I meant right now.  I felt that at the moment there was no feature implemented in uboot that wasn't already on the freerunner when I got it from the factory.
Jul 20 17:14:43 <cjb> Ah, I saw that mail, didn't associate it with dead batteries.
Jul 20 17:15:18 <malik1972> goldenhawk: thats right
Jul 20 17:15:32 <jag_> hello all, a question about the touchscreen...can i get two x and ys if i touch the screen in two different places? and can i touch using my fingers instead of the stylus? thanks.
Jul 20 17:16:35 <rivalarrival> I don't think this touchscreen supports multitouch. You can use your fingers, to some extent.
Jul 20 17:17:03 <malik1972> jag_ u can try to port openmoko on an iphone
Jul 20 17:17:35 <jag_> rival: what do you mean by some extent? is it possible to click square buttons say?
Jul 20 17:17:46 <jag_> like those on the calculator
Jul 20 17:18:46 <mjr> to the extent that your fingers are accurate enough
Jul 20 17:18:59 <malik1972> jag_ qtopia 4.x has big buttons, and i can press with my fingers at the upper right corner
Jul 20 17:19:01 <mjr> should be for basic phone/calculator/whatever stuff
Jul 20 17:20:02 <lollydays> malik1972: but qtopia still has a tiny keyboard :)
Jul 20 17:20:41 <malik1972> lollydays: you mean asu, in qtopia 4.x you have the choice
Jul 20 17:21:12 <lollydays> malik1972: i was just using the qtopia image.... didn't know you had the choice!
Jul 20 17:21:16 <malik1972> seems to be down http://www.qtopia.net/
Jul 20 17:21:17 <jag_> yeah im thinking of some music apps
Jul 20 17:21:30 <jag_> synthesis..tap drumming type of stuff..
Jul 20 17:21:38 <loufoque> what's the reason for using X11 in openmoko? Both Qt and GTK+ should be able to work with the framebuffer
Jul 20 17:22:03 <loufoque> and it's not like there is hardware acceleration & co anyway
Jul 20 17:22:22 <ebbe> jag_: You could do that, yes
Jul 20 17:22:32 <malik1972> lollydays: the om guys ported some applications from the qtopa phone edition (trolltech) to what they called asu (x11+qtopia)
Jul 20 17:22:53 <mjr> loufoque, actually 1) there is and 2) more flexibility
Jul 20 17:23:04 <lollydays> malik1972: yeah, i know. I was using the qtopia image and now I'm going to try the ASU 
Jul 20 17:23:14 <malik1972> lollydays: ahh okay
Jul 20 17:23:37 <malik1972> lollydays: i use qtopia on nand and 2007.2 on sd
Jul 20 17:24:32 <loufoque> mjr: more flexibility, like?
Jul 20 17:24:44 <loufoque> being able to forward X11 over ssh?
Jul 20 17:24:50 <loufoque> so useful
Jul 20 17:25:08 <mjr> you seem to be out to troll, so think for yourself
Jul 20 17:25:31 <jag_> this is probably dumb question but i couldnt find an answer in the wiki....i can program in c++ right? how do i access the audio subsystems...both the microphone and stereo output?  i have written applications with portaudio
Jul 20 17:25:50 <loufoque> mjr: i'm honestly asking what's the point
Jul 20 17:26:01 <jag_> in c++ on gnu/linux
Jul 20 17:26:20 <newb> jag_ let me know if u can port openmoko to the iphone :)
Jul 20 17:26:20 <mjr> jag_, yes you can, you perv. Apparently the direction is towards plain alsa but for now at least there's the pulseaudio server.
Jul 20 17:27:21 <jag_> newb: not good enough to do that and i dont want to either :) i prefer free platforms
Jul 20 17:27:30 <lollydays> malik1972: i flashed the asu and it boots to a message that says, "error loading module", i can actually drag that message around...
Jul 20 17:27:46 <mjr> loufoque, well then either you're a troll or just not worth my time, feel free to try to get others to explain though
Jul 20 17:29:55 <lollydays> anyone know why i'd get "error loading module" in ASU?
Jul 20 17:30:26 <sontek> the latest ASU is broken
Jul 20 17:30:34 <sontek> install the 19th
Jul 20 17:30:44 <mmontour> Regarding flashing a new u-boot - there is no reason to do so yet. The ones currently on buildhost (with "svnr4297" in the filename) are based on the old tree and don't have the recent fixes. Wait a few days.
Jul 20 17:30:56 <Zorkman> the 19th didn't work too well with my freerunner yesterday
Jul 20 17:31:01 <Zorkman> no exposure for example
Jul 20 17:31:19 <malik1972> mmontour: what are the recent fixes?
Jul 20 17:31:22 <kuzgun> how can I package a program written in python ( inherit distutils is enough or not? )
Jul 20 17:31:25 <lollydays> sontek, thanks
Jul 20 17:31:47 <Zorkman> question: is there somewhere a howto to connect with the 2007.2 image to a wireless network?
Jul 20 17:32:02 <Zorkman> (without password, i only find information for wpa protected ones)
Jul 20 17:32:10 <mmontour> PMU fixes to boot from low battery, ext2/3 support for SD-booting, pass wakeup-reason to userspace
Jul 20 17:33:12 <loufoque> mjr: i'll be sure to forward your answer to the rest of the international community and the (potential) buyers I intended to perform a grouped purchase with, thanks.
Jul 20 17:33:31 <malik1972> mmontour: that sound very well, you mean it fixes also the problems with ext on sdhc
Jul 20 17:33:41 <lollydays> Zorkman, which ASU should I try then?
Jul 20 17:34:05 <mmontour> Yes for Freerunner. Neo1973 u-boot still won't be able to use SDHC, only plain SD
Jul 20 17:34:36 <mmontour> BTW that "yes" is actually a "should work". Someone still needs to test that.
Jul 20 17:34:37 <malik1972> mmontour: what do you understand by wakeup reason? something like an alarm-> boot?
Jul 20 17:35:24 <sontek> Zorkman: its the same steps, just without wpa-supplicant.conf
Jul 20 17:35:28 <zedstar_> louforque: openmoko is not unique in using X11.....Maemo, ALP etc do
Jul 20 17:35:31 <sontek> Zorkman: use iwconfig
Jul 20 17:35:46 <mmontour> was the wakeup from a button press, GSM interrupt, low-battery signal, etc. U-boot writes this to a register and the newer kernels expose this through a /sys file
Jul 20 17:38:24 <malik1972> mmontour: are you an uboot developer?
Jul 20 17:39:16 <mmontour> malik1972: no, just a community member who's spent a lot of time poking at it.
Jul 20 17:40:16 <malik1972> mmontour: i spent last weekend for uboot
Jul 20 17:40:53 <malik1972> mmontour: booting from sd didnt worked, had to change the env to ext3 instead of ext2
Jul 20 17:41:17 <hhf423> moin!
Jul 20 17:42:08 <hhf423> I just loaded a relatively recent build (from celtune) onto my Neo 1973. Should I expect better power management?
Jul 20 17:43:03 <malik1972> hhf423: i dont think so, ask marcel_m in the german channel
Jul 20 17:44:05 <hhf423> malik1972: I don't think that he has done anything specific, this was more a general question if power management has improved in, say, the last two months (when I looked at the state of affairs last)
Jul 20 17:44:18 <hhf423> sorry, I was not clear on that
Jul 20 17:44:54 <malik1972> hhf423: not really, maybe you can try mwesters kernel
Jul 20 17:45:06 <wibbit> Does any one know, if we've tried to contact some of the bus companies in the UK, to get their routes, in a format that would allow us to enter the data?
Jul 20 17:46:04 <mmontour> malik1972: that was an issue in the default kernel config - ext2 was built as a module. Now ext2 and ext3 are built-in
Jul 20 17:47:57 <bobkare> wibbit: something tells me you put that into the wrong channel :)
Jul 20 17:48:07 <wibbit> hehehe
Jul 20 17:48:07 <wibbit> yup
Jul 20 17:48:27 <hhf423> hahah, did you see the rant from FSF on iphone? pathetic.
Jul 20 17:48:38 <wibbit> I was actually wondering subsequently why they were talking about the the ext2/3 features being present as a module or built in :)
Jul 20 17:49:30 <ebbe> hhf423: Why is it pathetic?
Jul 20 17:50:00 <hhf423> ebbe: for one, its in parts factually wrong. plain wrong.
Jul 20 17:50:10 <hhf423> ebbe: its FUD
Jul 20 17:50:55 <ebbe> hhf423: What is wrong?
Jul 20 17:51:03 <hhf423> ebbe: and of course: who cares. if they think they can do better, they could just prove it e.g. with the Noe or Freerunner
Jul 20 17:51:36 <ebbe> hhf423: I don't think it is about doing things better, it's about freedom
Jul 20 17:51:46 <hhf423> ebbe: the iphone does only share your location with application a) if you turn location on, b) you also allow an application to use location
Jul 20 17:52:49 <mmontour> c) an evil application exploits a bug and turns on the above items itself (theoretically)
Jul 20 17:53:29 <wibbit> mmontour: surely not, the godly jobs wouldn't allow it
Jul 20 17:53:39 <mjr> wonder how they sandbox... or do they really
Jul 20 17:53:44 <hhf423> mmontour: in theory, everything is possible. at least applications on the iphone are now sandboxed
Jul 20 17:54:28 <almien> hang on, aren't peoples' cellphone location data being sold wholesale by phone companies even before GPS devices get involved?
Jul 20 17:54:43 <ebbe> hhf423: I don't understand your location thing? I must be reading something different.. But I wouldn't have a device with GPS and network, that were closed source.
Jul 20 17:54:46 <hhf423> almien: depends in which country you live
Jul 20 17:55:15 <mmontour> anyway, I don't have time to discuss it now. Will be back later.
Jul 20 17:55:37 <hhf423> ebbe: thats your choice. but FSF is suggesting that iphone shares your location data without you being able to control it. and thats bullshit.
Jul 20 17:55:43 <SpeedEvil> 'At some time' we need a decent security architecture.
Jul 20 17:55:49 <ebbe> hhf423: No it's not
Jul 20 17:55:54 <mjr> SpeedEvil, ...yes
Jul 20 17:55:59 <Gnutoo> hhf423, there is also a problem with the iphone...you have 2 choices...jailbreaking and risking to brick it with a forced apple update and not jailbreaking it and not having functions such as ssh
Jul 20 17:56:02 <ebbe> hhf423: You have no idea about that the OS is doing
Jul 20 17:56:14 <hhf423> SpeedEvil: yes, we need that. but it will be harder to make it work afterwards...
Jul 20 17:56:33 <SpeedEvil> hhf423: yeah.
Jul 20 17:56:42 <phileasfogg> phone companies can still find out where you are by analysing the phone's gsm signal strength, I think
Jul 20 17:56:55 <SpeedEvil> phileasfogg: to within a few dozen meters
Jul 20 17:56:58 <hhf423> ebbe: I do, I can jailbreak into the thing and look at it. its a bsd unix...
Jul 20 17:57:02 <SpeedEvil> phileasfogg: and it's timing, more than stuff
Jul 20 17:57:09 <Gnutoo> hhf423, and last but not least...as ebbe says you can't know what does the os or the applications...and you have a lot of confidential things in a phone...
Jul 20 17:57:22 <ebbe> hhf423: So by jailbreaking it you can see the entire souce code?!
Jul 20 17:57:23 <phileasfogg> point is, they can do that with the freerunner as well
Jul 20 17:57:33 <SpeedEvil> At some point we need to be able to install a game app, and have it almost completely sandboxed.
Jul 20 17:57:46 <SpeedEvil> Own unpriviledged user, ...
Jul 20 17:58:04 <hhf423> ebbe: hahaha, noone reads the source anyway. we all know that. do not believe the "I could read the source and therefore its secure FUD"
Jul 20 17:58:18 <SpeedEvil> And 'reading' is not enough.
Jul 20 17:58:28 <hhf423> ebbe:  the bind source has been open for how many years? and vulnerabilities are still being found.
Jul 20 17:58:32 <SpeedEvil> Reading and inwardly understanding is a whole other order of magnitude.
Jul 20 17:59:12 <ebbe> hhf423: bind source? Can you really see if the OS is not sending stuff to Apple?
Jul 20 17:59:13 <Gnutoo> phileasfogg, there is a security team for the opnemoko no? if i remember well the first thing they are develloping is a phone call firewall...but they plan to develop phone calls encryption(need 2 openmoko compatible phones...)
Jul 20 18:00:01 <hhf423> ebbe: BIND, you know what BIND is, do you?
Jul 20 18:00:13 <ebbe> hhf423: Apparently not
Jul 20 18:00:25 <Gnutoo> phileasfogg, but there is still 2 problems: localization and knowing to who you are talking to
Jul 20 18:00:42 <hhf423> ebbe: oh, sorry. its a DNS server. Its THE DNS server.
Jul 20 18:00:56 <wibbit> hhf423: regarding the reading of source code, the vast majority do not read the source code, and of those that do, they are not doing it for security perposes. but to suggest that no one does, or that it is worthless is a bit short sighted.
Jul 20 18:01:21 <zedstar_> ifaik apple uses location services from skyhook and skyhook uses a closed system for location
Jul 20 18:01:26 <Gnutoo> hhf423, that wasn't specific to bind...microsoft dns was also affected
Jul 20 18:01:34 <hhf423> wibbit: I am not saying it is worthless. But it is not a cure all, what people like to suggest
Jul 20 18:01:58 <SpeedEvil> It's a cure-all only if someone sponsors a few dozen eyes to go over each and every line of the code.
Jul 20 18:02:01 <hhf423> Gnutoo: ah, then its ok of course :-)
Jul 20 18:02:11 <SpeedEvil> And that's _expensive_.
Jul 20 18:02:13 <wibbit> You'd be supprised the difference in mentality of companies when they realise that any one and every one can view the code written.
Jul 20 18:02:29 <wibbit> SpeedEvil: True, but some people do.
Jul 20 18:02:41 <lollydays> hhf423: One of the reasons I bought the Freerunner was to support diversity. Diversity of thought brings us many advantages. With opensoure we're not bound to Apple's terms and conditions
Jul 20 18:03:06 <SpeedEvil> opensource does not mean not being bound to T&Cs.
Jul 20 18:03:14 <Gnutoo> hhf423, that depends on the software ....debian openssl flaw was bad...but it was found out...imagine that in a project where you can't see the source...no one would have been able to find it out
Jul 20 18:03:22 <loufoque> hhf423: the security flaw was in the protocol itself, all implementations are affected
Jul 20 18:03:44 <SpeedEvil> loufoque: which were of course public.
Jul 20 18:03:52 <ebbe> hhf423: I really am somewhat puzzled by you attitude.. What are you doing in this room?
Jul 20 18:03:58 <hhf423> lollydays: yes, choice is good and open source sure puts pressure on the closed source vendors
Jul 20 18:04:19 <Gnutoo> *that also depends on the software, s/..././
Jul 20 18:04:54 <ozzloy> where is this article from fsf about the iphone sharing your location?
Jul 20 18:05:21 <ebbe> ozzloy: http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/5-reasons-to-avoid-iphone-3g/blogentry_view But it only states that you can not control it
Jul 20 18:05:22 <lollydays> also, it allows us to build the experience from the bottom up, instead from the top down. We, the people can choose what we want
Jul 20 18:05:28 <sontek> it always weirds me out when I see RMS and hes not wearing a tinfoil hat
Jul 20 18:05:38 <sontek> he just strikes me as a tinfoil hat kind of guy
Jul 20 18:05:43 <ozzloy> ebbe: ah, thanks
Jul 20 18:06:25 <wibbit> sontek: :)
Jul 20 18:12:13 <Gnutoo> sontek, he doesn't need that...this kind of hat won't protect him from the dvd consortium conspitation,fron the riaa the mpaa etc....
Jul 20 18:12:37 <Gnutoo> sontek, but he has another kind of hat:
Jul 20 18:13:26 <lollydays> anyone know why qtopia registers my SIM but om2007.2 doesn't?
Jul 20 18:14:45 <Gnutoo> sontek, a halo made from an old hard disk platter....
Jul 20 18:17:31 <RXShorty> Hi all.
Jul 20 18:22:28 <sontek> how do you type an @ sign on the 2007.2 keyboard?
Jul 20 18:22:55 <hhf423> ebbe: I have a Neo 1973 since over a year. I am an OSS fan, I sometimes work in OSS project. But I hate FUD. and I hate FUD being used to "support" OSS
Jul 20 18:24:13 <hhf423> ebbe: but its funny, every time someone questions pro-OSS stuff, even if its FUD, someone comes along and supposes that they do not "belong" here. probably a religion thing...
Jul 20 18:27:28 * mjr hates FUD about any and all strong and/or irrational beliefs being "religion"
Jul 20 18:29:45 <lollydays> qtopia registers my SIM within 10 seconds but the standard OM2007.2 image does not, why is that?
Jul 20 18:34:25 <lpotter> qtopia rocks
Jul 20 18:35:14 <elgyn> FUCK ENGLAND FUCK ENGLAND FUCK ENGLAND FUCK ENGLAND FUCK ENGLAND
Jul 20 18:35:20 <trix> i upgraded to om2007.2 0720 last night and the vibrator wouldn't stop after recving message and the dialer wouldn't dial
Jul 20 18:35:31 <elgyn> trix: fuck you!
Jul 20 18:35:49 <trix> go away troll
Jul 20 18:36:03 <elgyn> trix: fuck your motha! you child of a bitch!
Jul 20 18:36:19 <jtickle> anyone know where the code is for the wifi panel thing?
Jul 20 18:36:22 <Toaster`> elgyn: you might want to try a football channel.  There're more of your dort there
Jul 20 18:36:30 <trix> does anyone know if those problems were corrected soon after the latest daily was put out?
Jul 20 18:36:38 <cjb> elgyn: Please consider growing up.
Jul 20 18:36:59 <elgyn> cjb: shut up or I will ...... you!
Jul 20 18:37:19 <wibbit> It's amazing really
Jul 20 18:37:34 <wibbit> to think four year old's are able to get online, and in to IRC channels
Jul 20 18:37:45 <elgyn> I only say: Fuck England! And fuck america! And fuck all english people!!!
Jul 20 18:38:09 <Toaster`> wibbit: please don't say that about 4y/o's.  There are some rather nice ones :)
Jul 20 18:38:10 <zedstar_> had a bad experience in England eh?
Jul 20 18:38:11 <Gnutoo> elgyn, so why are you speaking english
Jul 20 18:38:26 <elgyn> wibbit: You´re full of shit!
Jul 20 18:38:32 <trix> elgyn: go back to sending out winning lottery notices, loser
Jul 20 18:38:42 <wibbit> Toaster`: I'm yet to be convinced of that :)
Jul 20 18:38:55 <malik1972> lpotter: ping
Jul 20 18:38:56 <elgyn> trix: go home and kill yourself!
Jul 20 18:39:04 <elgyn> You child of a bitch!!!
Jul 20 18:39:16 <Toaster`> wibbit: fair enough.  Though they are few and far between.
Jul 20 18:39:18 <trix> what's the difference between Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image and openmoko-devel-image in the latest daily? or is there one?
Jul 20 18:39:59 <Gnutoo> should we call someone from freenode?
Jul 20 18:40:14 <trix> they look to be the same size but there's no docs i can find on the naming convention for releases
Jul 20 18:40:16 <cjb> Gnutoo: he'll probably get bored soon.
Jul 20 18:40:22 <Gnutoo> cjb, ok
Jul 20 18:40:32 <sontek> anyone know where to get libjana from?
Jul 20 18:40:34 <elgyn> I GIVE A SHIT ON THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE; ENGLAND; AUSTRALIA AND AMERICA! I fuck all them!
Jul 20 18:40:58 <malik1972> elgyn: you are right, do you speak turkish?
Jul 20 18:41:04 <zedstar_> that was not technically correct English
Jul 20 18:41:06 <Gnutoo> elgyn, so stop speaking english...or better stop speaking at all
Jul 20 18:41:09 <wibbit> elgyn: why would you fuck some one you don't like? Let alone an entire nation
Jul 20 18:41:22 <elgyn> I GIVE A SHIT ON ENGLISH!!! hahhahah
Jul 20 18:41:52 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r1f94760aba1a 10/packages/qtopia-phone/qtopia-phone-x11_git.bb: [qtopia] In a debug distro build enable logging
Jul 20 18:41:52 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r73517f658ea9 10/packages/qtopia-phone/qtopia-phone-x11_git.bb: [qtopia] Put the words.dawg into the main package so it gets installed
Jul 20 18:41:55 <elgyn> Scheiß-England!
Jul 20 18:41:59 <lpotter> malik1972: pong
Jul 20 18:42:29 <Toaster`> General question: is CIA-46 a commit bot or similar?
Jul 20 18:42:47 <malik1972> lpotter: i have a problem with the terminal application, there is a kind of invisible tab (spaces)
Jul 20 18:43:01 <elgyn> Why all english people do fuck mother and father?
Jul 20 18:43:11 <lpotter> thats because it isnt finding a fixed font.
Jul 20 18:43:26 <Zorkman> does anybody else gets a fe errors with opkg  update?
Jul 20 18:43:29 <malik1972> lpotter: how can i fix this
Jul 20 18:43:44 <thewtex> Toaster`: yes
Jul 20 18:43:44 <lpotter> i have a fixed font, but it is really tiny
Jul 20 18:43:57 <malik1972> toaster`: http://cia.vc/stats/project/openmoko
Jul 20 18:44:07 <elgyn> FUCK ENGLAND FUCK ENGLAND FUCK ENGLAND FUCK ENGLAND FUCK ENGLAND FUCK ENGLAND FUCK ENGLAND
Jul 20 18:44:09 <malik1972> lpotter: but it worked before
Jul 20 18:44:22 <lpotter> it did? when?
Jul 20 18:44:36 <malik1972> lpotter: whenever i tried it, i am sure
Jul 20 18:45:03 <Gnutoo> how do i /ignore him...i tried several commands but that gave me the usage...
Jul 20 18:45:10 <elgyn> lpotter: You are a very big asshole, you know?
Jul 20 18:45:18 <Toaster`> Gnutoo: /ignore elgyn  worked for me
Jul 20 18:45:43 <elgyn> Toaster: Bumfucker!
Jul 20 18:45:51 <Toaster`> Gnutoo: might be an irssi thing, not sure
Jul 20 18:45:53 <cjb> elgyn: You are almost irritating enough to make me e-mail your ISP, Peter Rauter, letting them know that you're spewing racist crap.
Jul 20 18:46:06 <Zorkman> in konversation /ignore elgyn also works
Jul 20 18:46:09 <Gnutoo> Toaster`, doesn't seems to work on xchat
Jul 20 18:46:10 <cjb> elgyn: If you wish to continue being not irritating enough for that, I suggest leaving.
Jul 20 18:46:24 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * re57d6c82dfc6 10/packages/initscripts/initscripts_1.0.bb: [initscripts] Do not mix tabs and spaces, do not fail if the led-trigger is not available
Jul 20 18:46:47 <happosade> anyone knows when pulster send a phones?
Jul 20 18:46:50 <Toaster`> Gnutoo: hrm, any ignore options when you r-click on his nick?  I confess I haven't used xChat in a long time
Jul 20 18:46:51 <elgyn> I´m not a racist!
Jul 20 18:47:08 <cjb> elgyn: Your statements disagree.
Jul 20 18:47:13 <phileasfogg> try /ignore -replies elgyn
Jul 20 18:47:15 <elgyn> OK sorry.
Jul 20 18:47:25 <cjb> elgyn: Please leave now.
Jul 20 18:47:28 <Gnutoo> doesn't work
Jul 20 18:47:30 <elgyn> No.
Jul 20 18:47:30 <malik1972> lpotter: so it was suprising, did some apm-s and more /proc/version some days ago
Jul 20 18:47:46 <trix> from latest 2007.2 daily, can't dial any numbers - Dialer Error: Method "Dial" with signature "s" on interface "org.openmkoo.PhoneKit.Dialer" doesn't exist
Jul 20 18:48:52 <Gnutoo> ah i found a ignore list...
Jul 20 18:49:19 <zedstar_> good call on the whois!
Jul 20 18:49:20 <Toaster`> Gnutoo: /ignore elgyn!*@* all  from http://forum.xchat.org/viewtopic.php?t=3900&sid=cd8e77065daaad05d39a8a22190ca0a1
Jul 20 18:49:31 <malik1972> lpotter: can i setup wpa2 from a terminal with wpa_supplicant, everything seems to be there
Jul 20 18:49:40 <Gnutoo> Toaster`, thanks...i'll use it if he comes back....
Jul 20 18:49:50 <lpotter> malik1972: wpa_supplicant is broken
Jul 20 18:50:10 <Toaster`> Gnutoo: np
Jul 20 18:50:14 <malik1972> lpotter: for the kernel used or ...
Jul 20 18:50:30 <lpotter> not sure, somewhere in the system though
Jul 20 18:50:52 <malik1972> lpotter: i had similar problems with 2007.2 and wpa2
Jul 20 18:50:52 <lpotter> doesnt work in 'official' kernels either
Jul 20 18:51:31 <malik1972> lpotter: "ifdown usb0" solved my problem
Jul 20 18:51:47 <Gnutoo> by the way does someone use his micro-sd card to store the OS? and if yes does tangogps work?
Jul 20 18:51:57 <malik1972> lpotter: will try it later with qtopia
Jul 20 18:52:03 <lpotter> hmm..
Jul 20 18:52:06 <Zorkman> ?
Jul 20 18:52:31 <Zorkman> question: is there anywhere a HOWTO for multibot ASU,2007.2, qtopia, FSO?
Jul 20 18:52:58 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rc940752b3d82 10/packages/initscripts/ (initscripts-1.0/openmoko/led-trigger initscripts_1.0.bb): [openmoko] Add start up script for trigger AUX led
Jul 20 18:52:59 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r3c653c4fec6a 10/packages/initscripts/initscripts_1.0.bb: [initscripts] Do not mix tabs and spaces, do not fail if the led-trigger is not available
Jul 20 18:52:59 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r1d6fb4b2c411 10/packages/qtopia-phone/qtopia-phone-x11_git.bb: [qtopia] In a debug distro build enable logging
Jul 20 18:53:00 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r0bb249b72ede 10/packages/qtopia-phone/qtopia-phone-x11_git.bb: [qtopia] Put the words.dawg into the main package so it gets installed
Jul 20 18:53:04 <malik1972> zorkman: you have to modify uboot env
Jul 20 18:53:14 <Zorkman> yes, i know i will have to do that,
Jul 20 18:53:45 <Zorkman> but the problem is that i'm starting at zero knowledge, so I could only pull it off with a good guide somewhere on the internet :)
Jul 20 18:54:02 <Zorkman> guess i'll just have to wait a bit, i've seen on the mailinlist that some people already have succeeded
Jul 20 18:54:16 <malik1972> zorkman: i can do it
Jul 20 18:54:41 <malik1972> zorkman: but it took me a weekend
Jul 20 18:55:11 <carrar> damn phone batteries during then night
Jul 20 18:55:14 <Zorkman> malik1972: hehe, so i guess i'm in over my head :)
Jul 20 18:55:15 <carrar> died
Jul 20 18:55:16 <malik1972> zorkman: uboot has some problems with ext on sdhc
Jul 20 18:57:01 <malik1972> zorkman: change the entry ext2 in uboot nand env to ext3, put the kernel to the first partition (fat) and the rootfs to the second (ext3)
Jul 20 18:57:26 <malik1972> zorkman: from there you can work on further boot menues
Jul 20 18:58:33 <Zorkman> malik1972: i really appreciate your help, but i'm totally new at linux, so even with some very good pointers i'll get stuck
Jul 20 18:58:45 <Zorkman> for example: if the wiki says to create or edit a file on the freerunner, how do i do this?
Jul 20 18:58:55 <Zorkman> i know how to add a line to a file, but not how to edit it...
Jul 20 18:59:05 <malik1972> zorkman: wait some days zorkman, a newer uboot version will have improvements
Jul 20 18:59:08 <Zorkman> thought it would be with "ed" or "pico" but that doesn't work
Jul 20 18:59:19 <nullpuppy> arg. no wpa-supplicant on scaredycat's image and i can't seem to install it :/
Jul 20 18:59:51 <malik1972> zorkman: do you have an usb connection to your neo, ssh and so on
Jul 20 18:59:52 <peepsalot> what's a way I can search the list archives, if I haven't been subscribed the whole time?
Jul 20 18:59:52 <Gnutoo> hello, there must be somebody that use the os on sd-card and gps(because i wonder if tangogps's map loading prevent it from getting a gps fix)
Jul 20 18:59:57 <trix> Zorkman, only editor installed by default is `vi`, and it takes a bit to get used to
Jul 20 18:59:59 <nullpuppy> Zorkman: you should have vi on the fr
Jul 20 19:00:09 <Zorkman> yeah, and the neo is connected through the host to the internet
Jul 20 19:00:17 <Zorkman> ko, thanks alot!!
Jul 20 19:00:19 <nullpuppy> trix: meh, i've used vi lots, didn't take much to get used to ;)
Jul 20 19:00:25 <malik1972> zorkman: thats fine
Jul 20 19:00:39 <trix> nullpuppy, yeah but it surely isn't a beginner's editor
Jul 20 19:00:45 <malik1972> zorkman: do u use konqueror?
Jul 20 19:00:51 <nullpuppy> yeah, i suppose you have me there ;)
Jul 20 19:01:03 <trix> :)
Jul 20 19:01:17 <Zorkman> malik1972: konquerer is? a file browser?
Jul 20 19:01:27 <Zorkman> (i only use the terminal at this time)
Jul 20 19:01:28 <Gnutoo> trix, is busybox's vi like vim? or is it like the old vi?
Jul 20 19:02:00 <trix> standard vi i believe
Jul 20 19:02:01 <malik1972> zorkman: take an ftp client -> sftp://root@openmoko_ip
Jul 20 19:02:18 <malik1972> zorkman: thats good for fast navigation
Jul 20 19:02:22 <jtickle> so I'd like to flash my device, but want a backup first since it's working nicely at the moment; do I want 'dfu-util -a (kernel or rootfs) -U filename'?
Jul 20 19:02:29 <Zorkman> super
Jul 20 19:02:58 <nullpuppy> jtickle: that sounds right
Jul 20 19:03:02 <malik1972> zorkman: then u can pull over the corresponding files, modify them and put them back
Jul 20 19:03:22 <jtickle> nullpuppy, cool
Jul 20 19:04:00 <nullpuppy> hmm
Jul 20 19:04:09 <nullpuppy> decisions, decisions.
Jul 20 19:04:21 * nullpuppy wants wifi, might have to resort to standard daily build
Jul 20 19:04:23 <Zorkman> malik1972: it asks for a password, but my freerunner doesn't have one, if i leave it blank it gives an error
Jul 20 19:04:41 <malik1972> zorkman: use bla or blue or whatever:-)
Jul 20 19:05:14 <Zorkman> it works, thanks
Jul 20 19:06:18 <sontek> nullpuppy: I installed scaredycat, he did a lot of good things with it
Jul 20 19:06:40 <Zorkman> malik1972: when i do opkg update it downloads a few files and after a while i get 404 errors, upkg upgrade does work; is this normal?
Jul 20 19:06:42 <nullpuppy> sontek: yeah, i'm liking it
Jul 20 19:06:48 <nullpuppy> seems a little slow though :/
Jul 20 19:06:55 <nullpuppy> (compared to the others i've used)
Jul 20 19:07:22 <sontek> yeah, definitely slower
Jul 20 19:07:28 <sontek> takes a few seconds just to connect to ssh over usb
Jul 20 19:07:35 <malik1972> zorkman: i have also errors with opkg
Jul 20 19:07:40 <nullpuppy> yeah
Jul 20 19:07:41 <Zorkman> ok
Jul 20 19:07:57 <malik1972> zorkman: which image u use?
Jul 20 19:08:03 <Zorkman> currently 2007.2
Jul 20 19:08:12 <Zorkman> because the asu image yesterday didn't work well
Jul 20 19:08:22 <Zorkman> i want to try out the FSO and qtopia also
Jul 20 19:08:33 <malik1972> zorkman: the u can install some editors
Jul 20 19:08:44 <nullpuppy> ok, too much effort to get wpa-supplicant working in scaredycat right now, /me reverts to an official daily build
Jul 20 19:08:50 <sontek> Zorkman: FSO is useless :P it just has a dialer, no call history or anything
Jul 20 19:09:24 <Zorkman> ok, then i'll skip it or install it when i do something horrendously wrong so that i have to reflash :)
Jul 20 19:09:28 <sontek> nullpuppy: wpa doesn't work on scaredy cat?
Jul 20 19:09:37 <Zorkman> what do you use malik?
Jul 20 19:09:38 <nullpuppy> sontek: its not installed
Jul 20 19:09:41 <malik1972> zorkman: tried also all of them, wait 1 week for the next milestone of fso
Jul 20 19:09:47 <nullpuppy> sontek: and trying to install it fails to grab the packages
Jul 20 19:09:51 <sontek> ahh
Jul 20 19:10:00 <nullpuppy> so i have to grab each on individually, and there seems to be several
Jul 20 19:10:01 <Zorkman> malik 1972: (it keeps stating one week for next milestone ;-))
Jul 20 19:10:05 <malik1972> zorkman: i use qtopia 4.x http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=6
Jul 20 19:10:27 <Zorkman> does wireless networking withouth a password work?
Jul 20 19:10:54 <nullpuppy> sontek: did you find out where the themes were stored btw?
Jul 20 19:10:55 <malik1972> zorkman: wireless works, so lpotter ...but wpa2 seems to be broken
Jul 20 19:11:06 * nullpuppy wants to save scaredycats theme if possible
Jul 20 19:11:19 <Zorkman> and suspend?
Jul 20 19:11:25 <malik1972> zorkman: works
Jul 20 19:11:27 <Zorkman> (because i really want to use this as my main phone)
Jul 20 19:11:35 <sontek> nullpuppy: yeah, they are in /usr/share/themes
Jul 20 19:11:43 <sontek> nullpuppy: I couldn't find his theme selector app anywhere though
Jul 20 19:11:50 <nullpuppy> ok
Jul 20 19:11:56 <malik1972> zorkman: in that case try that and come back to the others with booting from sd
Jul 20 19:11:57 <sontek> nullpuppy: he does have his own repo though, might be in there if we can figure out its name
Jul 20 19:11:58 * nullpuppy does some looking around before reflashing
Jul 20 19:12:03 <nullpuppy> yeah
Jul 20 19:12:41 <malik1972> zorkman: on the other hand you will only see the lack if you try all of them
Jul 20 19:12:45 <sontek> I also noticed my phone charges when plugged into usb, it wasn't doing that on the daily builds
Jul 20 19:13:05 <sontek> not sure if he tweaked it or if its broken in these newest builds
Jul 20 19:13:15 <nullpuppy> really? huh, thats worked ok for me
Jul 20 19:13:38 <malik1972> lpotter: one more thing ... if i get an sms in suspended mode the date is missing
Jul 20 19:13:43 <sontek> and he has a twitter client =) which is nice, but there is no way to type an on the default kb :P
Jul 20 19:14:05 <nullpuppy> hehe
Jul 20 19:14:07 <sontek> type '@' on the default kb*
Jul 20 19:14:10 <nullpuppy> yeah
Jul 20 19:14:18 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke * rbe7582ca55ee 10/devices/ficgta01/src/plugins/phonevendors/ficgta01/ (vendor_ficgta01.cpp vendor_ficgta01_p.h): [ficgta01] Attempt to detect a dead/crashed/unusable TI Calypso and inform the user
Jul 20 19:14:19 <nullpuppy> i keep switching to the matchbox keyboard
Jul 20 19:14:29 <sontek> The matchbox is just to small for me
Jul 20 19:14:44 <nullpuppy> yeah, i can understand that, its a bit tiny
Jul 20 19:14:55 <malik1972> which keyboards are also usable?
Jul 20 19:15:02 <sontek> we need a keyboard like the ASU or the iphone
Jul 20 19:15:17 <malik1972> for big fingers
Jul 20 19:15:25 <sontek> malik1972: ASU's keyboard is the best I've found
Jul 20 19:15:35 <sontek> malik1972: but I don't think you can install it in 2007.2
Jul 20 19:15:38 <malik1972> there should be a choice of keyboards
Jul 20 19:15:56 <malik1972> sontek: do u stay with asu?
Jul 20 19:16:13 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r60fbdd59bfeb 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade Qtopia to get the CME ERROR: 512 modem dead detection
Jul 20 19:16:52 <nullpuppy> sontek: appname is settheme :)
Jul 20 19:17:21 <nullpuppy> sontek: all the apps are listed in /usr/share/applications (need .desktop files to show up in the menu)
Jul 20 19:17:27 <sontek> malik1972: Right now i'm on 2007.2 because ASU from yesterday is broken
Jul 20 19:17:43 <sontek> http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=iphone keyboard   first video is a good demo of the iphone keyboard
Jul 20 19:17:50 <sontek> I think they did really good
Jul 20 19:18:30 <sontek> the keys are very big and easy to touch type on
Jul 20 19:18:43 <sontek> but you can also switch to a keyboard that shows numbers/characters
Jul 20 19:18:55 <sontek> but putting them all on the screen at the same time makes it to small
Jul 20 19:19:14 <sontek> I think the matchbox would be great if you rotated to widescreen and it got bigger
Jul 20 19:19:36 <MadTBone> sontek: came in half way through discussion.... missed what you're referring to.... big keys?
Jul 20 19:20:35 <sontek> MadTBone: we are talking about how the 2007.2 default keyboard isn't helpful because it misses important keys like '/' in a terminal or '@' for most sites you need to login to
Jul 20 19:20:51 <sontek> and how the matchbox keyboard is *really* small and impossible to use without the stylus
Jul 20 19:21:11 <MadTBone> sontek: right...but are referencing an existing keybd w/ large keys?
Jul 20 19:21:16 <MadTBone> sontek: or the ideal?
Jul 20 19:21:44 <sontek> MadTBone: The one I was referencing was the iphones, which only displays qwerty by default
Jul 20 19:21:52 <sontek> and then has a key to switch to characters/numbers
Jul 20 19:22:13 <MadTBone> sontek: ahh....right.  I really think we should work on something similar.
Jul 20 19:23:01 <goldenhawk> Argh.. :/  I've been banging my head against this for hours.  I don't get why pppd will connect with GPRS one out of 20 times, and the rest of the time it doesn't respond to ATZ
Jul 20 19:23:35 <nullpuppy> hmm. anyone know where the boot image is stored?
Jul 20 19:24:59 <goldenhawk> I don't get why cu -l /dev/ttySAC0 always works fine but pppd's chat scripts don't.
Jul 20 19:26:06 <sontek> MadTBone: yeah, they have a larger screen so we'd have to scale it down a bit, but I think the design is perfect
Jul 20 19:28:31 <MadTBone> sontek: I think we should just overlay a keyboard in landscape mode...if you want to type a lot, just turn the phone sideways and type on big keys...don't have to worry about rotating the entire WM...just make the keyboard sideways with a single line up top to view text to be inserted
Jul 20 19:28:52 <MadTBone> sontek: WM = window manager
Jul 20 19:31:12 <sontek> MadTBone: that makes sense
Jul 20 19:32:30 <MadTBone> I mean... we even have accelerometers to detect the sideways phone...walrustown had code to make use of them.... detect rotation = keyboard...that makes for simple usability
Jul 20 19:32:50 <Zorkman> when trying to flash from NOR i get : Cannot claim interface: could not claim interface 2: Operation not permitted
Jul 20 19:32:59 <MadTBone> Zorkman: sudo
Jul 20 19:33:36 <^^MAg^^> Hi, I just wanted to try openmoko in qemu - make qemu compiles openmoko, and starts qemu but interface is strange
Jul 20 19:33:58 <goldenhawk> Is anyone here using GPRS?
Jul 20 19:34:14 <sontek> goldenhawk: I couldn't get it to work
Jul 20 19:34:17 <sontek> would like to use it though
Jul 20 19:34:21 <goldenhawk> I just don't get why it's intermittentlike this
Jul 20 19:34:28 <^^MAg^^> "No network" and 4 icons - clicking on them does nothing
Jul 20 19:34:34 <sontek> if its intermittent, its better than I could get
Jul 20 19:34:50 <thewtex> ^^MAg^^: the mokomakefile is a bit messy/messed up
Jul 20 19:34:57 <goldenhawk> Barely.  One in twenty times will it even listen when I do an ATZ
Jul 20 19:35:10 <goldenhawk> From pppd
Jul 20 19:35:13 <thewtex> ^^MAg^^: that is the qtopia image frome qtopia.net
Jul 20 19:35:20 <goldenhawk> Works fine from a serial console
Jul 20 19:35:35 <thewtex> ^^MAg^^: it did not work for me either in qemu, but works great on a freerunner
Jul 20 19:36:31 <^^MAg^^> damn, I wwanted to try this before buying
Jul 20 19:36:35 <jco> hi, I see the FreeRunner has a "Stylus" pen thing, does it have character recognition (i.e. writing with the pen) or is it just to click on screen buttons?
Jul 20 19:39:13 <thewtex> ^^MAg^^: development is moving very rapidly and is very much so a work in progress--what you see now probably much different that what will be available in a few weeks time
Jul 20 19:39:18 <Toaster`> ^^MAg^^: I found that the image that is pulled with the mokomake file doesn't work.  I had to grab a more recent 1973 image.  I think the wiki has explainations
Jul 20 19:39:20 <goldenhawk> ^^MAg^^: Check out the bottom of this page: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Automatic_emulation_in_Ubuntu
Jul 20 19:39:34 <jtickle> nullpuppy, the image that produced is 8.0M... the downloadable kernel is 1.7M
Jul 20 19:39:41 <jtickle> nullpuppy, any idea of how I can verify the backup?
Jul 20 19:39:46 <goldenhawk> ^^MAg^^ I haven't tried it myself, but it seems like it would work.. it tells it to download  a different image for qemu
Jul 20 19:39:56 <jtickle> nullpuppy, at least for the kernel, haven't done rootfs yet
Jul 20 19:40:37 <thewtex> jco: on the qtopia image, they have character recognition, but I can't get it to work very well
Jul 20 19:40:52 <thewtex> jco: the qtopia image has a really neat predictive keyboard
Jul 20 19:41:23 <jco> thewtex: what do you mean by "predictive keyboard"?
Jul 20 19:41:33 <^^MAg^^> goldenhawk: thx, will try this
Jul 20 19:41:54 <^^MAg^^> 50M yeah, this looks like a real piece of software
Jul 20 19:42:04 <^^MAg^^> something makefile downloaded was a lot smaller
Jul 20 19:42:26 <MadTBone> sontek: I think that the big problem with the kind of keyboard I described is that 2007.2 uses matchbox for window management... matchbox only allows one window visible at a time
Jul 20 19:42:48 <thewtex> jco: they have a qwerty keyboard-- you type a work and don't necessary have to exactly hit the right keys but gives you suggestions on the most probable match and you pick a suggestion
Jul 20 19:43:28 <rddDavid51> ^^MAg^^: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Automatic_emulation_in_Ubuntu#Problems worked for me
Jul 20 19:43:47 <^^MAg^^> rddDavid51: thx, goldenhawk allready pointed me there
Jul 20 19:44:09 <nullpuppy> jtickle: for the kernel, that looks right. for the rootfs, looks WAY to small...
Jul 20 19:44:16 <jco> thewtex: oh, I see... thanks for the info
Jul 20 19:44:19 <rddDavid51> ^^MAg^^: I've been able to run ASU, FSO and OM ... with this tips
Jul 20 19:44:29 <nullpuppy> jtickle: unfortunately, i don't know how you'd verify without reflashing it :/
Jul 20 19:44:42 <jtickle> nullpuppy, heh indeed
Jul 20 19:44:54 <jtickle> nullpuppy, that was the kernel, the rootfs is definitely growing appropriately
Jul 20 19:45:08 <nullpuppy> cool
Jul 20 19:47:32 <jtickle> nullpuppy, where do I go to actually get ASU?  downloads.openmoko.org/asu?
Jul 20 19:49:55 <jtickle> nullpuppy, never mind, found it
Jul 20 19:51:25 <T0o0T> hi is this a common issue? after standby (battery almost empty) I can't boot the phone anymore. 
Jul 20 19:52:13 <T0o0T> opening the case and removing the battery for a short while is the only way to boot again
Jul 20 19:52:34 <T0o0T> using the default setup
Jul 20 19:52:58 <SpeedEvil> You need to shake some charge loose. 
Jul 20 19:53:15 <SpeedEvil> Attach a 1m string to the lanyard hole, and whirl it round your head for a couple of minutes.
Jul 20 19:53:39 <SpeedEvil> Seriously, battery managment is very well a work in progress.
Jul 20 19:54:23 <T0o0T> I was already whirling :) 
Jul 20 19:55:01 <cjb> hum.  I wonder if there's a lightweight C library for detecting/joining wifi networks on Linux.
Jul 20 19:55:18 <ecraven> do we have FSO milestone 2 yet?
Jul 20 19:55:25 <MadTBone> ecraven: no
Jul 20 19:55:54 <T0o0T> I know the battery management sucks right now. Is ASU better than 2007.2 on this point? 
Jul 20 19:55:58 <MadTBone> ecraven: but I think that GIT may be quite a bit ahead of milestone 1 .... at least on the framework end
Jul 20 19:56:26 <MadTBone> T0o0T: I find ASU worse for batt life
Jul 20 19:56:31 <sontek> cjb: lets write one =)  I haven't wrote C since college :P  been all C# and Python at work
Jul 20 19:56:49 <cjb> sontek: I don't want to; it's been done too many times before.
Jul 20 19:57:03 <cjb> would rather find an upstream "libwireless" that we can attach ourselves to.
Jul 20 19:57:23 <cjb> there's a lot of hairiness around encryption types and so on that no-one should ever have to write code to deal with again :)
Jul 20 19:57:29 <T0o0T> Ok. thanks. 
Jul 20 19:58:15 <sontek> cjb: pfft, nobody uses anything but wpa2 ;P
Jul 20 19:59:42 <sontek> cjb: but it'd probably be easy enough to just wrap iwconfig/iwlist
Jul 20 20:00:10 <retracile> yippee!  I got GPS working :)
Jul 20 20:00:22 * retracile has never had a GPS device before
Jul 20 20:00:31 * mjr has. The 1973 :]
Jul 20 20:00:38 <sontek> cjb: it detects the encryption the network is running and everything
Jul 20 20:00:50 <retracile> mjr: heh
Jul 20 20:01:19 <retracile> TTFF was 177s
Jul 20 20:01:51 <retracile> ... and early on, it was claiming 1081992448 sats. O_o
Jul 20 20:02:02 <retracile> (now claims 12)
Jul 20 20:03:09 <mjr> the 12 sounds more accurate
Jul 20 20:03:27 <retracile> ya think?
Jul 20 20:03:45 <retracile> I just figured that the Chinese space program had hit its stride ;)
Jul 20 20:04:09 <SpeedEvil> That - 108... looks suspeiciously like a timestamp from something confused.
Jul 20 20:04:10 <thewtex> retracile: has discover the alien invasion
Jul 20 20:06:26 <Toaster`> retracile: odd comment about the Chinese space program, considering GPS is American. :) Beidou (Chinese GPS) is still experimental FWIW. 
Jul 20 20:06:29 <retracile> SpeedEvil: it'd have to be a few years in the past though...
Jul 20 20:07:10 <SpeedEvil> Thu 15 Apr 2004 02:27:28 AM BST
Jul 20 20:07:14 <SpeedEvil> At a rough guess.
Jul 20 20:07:29 <retracile> Toaster`: 'Twas a poor joke.  They're working on it, and they have a /lot/ of people.
Jul 20 20:07:37 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03werner * r4543 10/developers/werner/poke/ (. Makefile poke.c): Quick and dirty utility to peek into registers and to tweak them.
Jul 20 20:08:27 <sontek> cjb: http://www.random-works.co.uk/xwconfig/
Jul 20 20:08:46 <sontek> cjb: Doesn't look like its maintained anymore, but its a GTK wrapper around iwconfig
Jul 20 20:08:50 <sontek> cjb: could start there
Jul 20 20:08:54 <cjb> sontek: so that, it's from 2001 and GTK1
Jul 20 20:08:59 <cjb> so not directly useful
Jul 20 20:09:04 <cjb> (GTK2 is not backwards-compatible.)
Jul 20 20:09:33 <Toaster`> I know, as do the Eurpoeans with Galileo.  It would be awesome to have a future neo that tapped into all four major ones (US, Russia, Europe, China) to get very good accurracy.
Jul 20 20:09:59 <Toaster`> s/Eurpoeans/Europeans/  oops
Jul 20 20:11:10 <Zorkman> qtopia gives Host key verification failed. whe ni try to ssh
Jul 20 20:11:55 <Zorkman> lpotter, you know how to overcome this i presume?
Jul 20 20:12:16 <thewtex> Zorkman: check out the wiki 
Jul 20 20:12:18 <Toaster`> cjb: regarding wifi apps, is there not a python interface for network-manager that could be adapted?
Jul 20 20:12:27 <Zorkman> ok, sorry
Jul 20 20:14:08 <thewtex> Zorkman: whenever you flash, it generates a new key
Jul 20 20:14:21 <Zorkman> "Host key verification failed" site:openmoko.org gives nothing on google
Jul 20 20:14:40 <thewtex> Zorkman: so you either have to delete the key manually, or never save the key in the first place
Jul 20 20:15:13 <ebbe> Zorkman: Key is saved in ~/.ssh/known_hosts
Jul 20 20:16:24 <thewtex> Zorkman: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking#Changing_host_keys
Jul 20 20:16:47 <n2o> cjb: i have never tried it but there is http://rabenfrost.net/celtune/ipk/all/wifi-radar_1.9.6-r2_all.ipk
Jul 20 20:16:53 <thewtex> Zorkman: but you want to delete the lne from ~/.ssh/known_hosts as ebbe said
Jul 20 20:17:22 <Zorkman> thank you
Jul 20 20:19:01 <Zorkman> now i just have to find where that .ssh map is located...
Jul 20 20:19:16 <cjb> n2o: it's written in Python
Jul 20 20:19:43 <cjb> and wifi panel applets can't be Python.  so while it'll work, it doesn't solve the problem of getting a wifi GUI in the base OS.
Jul 20 20:20:52 <Toaster`> cjb: panel applets have to be C?
Jul 20 20:21:08 <n2o> cjb: ah i just stubled over it during surfing thru the reps
Jul 20 20:22:25 <Zorkman> twebtex: i searched in the filebrowser for ssh but i found nothing, where is this folder located?
Jul 20 20:22:35 <cjb> Toaster`: seems so.  got any data that disagrees?
Jul 20 20:23:04 <ebbe> Zorkman: The ~/.ssh?
Jul 20 20:23:21 <thewtex> Zorkman: look on your desktop, not the phone
Jul 20 20:23:33 <Zorkman> i'm searching on my host computer
Jul 20 20:23:44 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r1945408d64aa 10/packages/efl1/efreet_cvs.bb: [efl] Package efreet-trash separately to keep having a libefreet0
Jul 20 20:23:44 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r8ddd5c5d244f 10/packages/efl1/efreet_cvs.bb: [efl] To avoid future issues also set the LEAD_SONAME
Jul 20 20:23:50 <ebbe> Zorkman: Write 'cd ~/.ssh'
Jul 20 20:24:14 <Zorkman> i feel very stupid :)
Jul 20 20:24:22 <Zorkman> i always got cd ~/.ssh
Jul 20 20:26:23 <thewtex> anyone tried using the headsets that come with a group order
Jul 20 20:26:47 <Toaster`> cjb: none, I'm trying to learn more about adding tools.  Scripting I can do reasonably well, whereas my C is non-existent.
Jul 20 20:34:39 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03werner * r4544 10/developers/werner/poke/poke.c: Added word size selection.
Jul 20 20:34:51 <carrar> Do I want desktop or server if I am gonna build a ubuntu machine to work with the openmoko?
Jul 20 20:35:44 <daMaestro> doesn't matter
Jul 20 20:35:48 <daMaestro> likely desktop
Jul 20 20:36:05 <carrar> downloading
Jul 20 20:45:05 <Zorkman> agps-gui does not work with qtopia image, is this correct?
Jul 20 20:45:19 <Zorkman> it lacks a lot of depencies
Jul 20 20:46:48 <leinir> That's not why - agps-gui requires an x server, and the qtopia image doesn't have one such, it runs directly on the framebuffer :)
Jul 20 20:47:22 <Zorkman> ah, i see
Jul 20 20:47:29 <Zorkman> so is there a gps app for qtopia?
Jul 20 20:47:35 <leinir> Not yet :)
Jul 20 20:47:38 <Zorkman> tango gps? with gpsd?
Jul 20 20:47:41 <Zorkman> ok, thanks
Jul 20 20:47:43 <leinir> We're waiting for the 4.4 release :)
Jul 20 20:47:57 <Zorkman> also: i'm besides my laptap that is connected to a wireless network that is not secured
Jul 20 20:48:03 <LionKMP> openmoko qutopia you mean? is that framebuffer based??
Jul 20 20:48:05 <Zorkman> but how do i connect to it with the freerunner? i cant find it
Jul 20 20:48:16 <Zorkman> (nee, qtopia from qtopia.net)
Jul 20 20:48:32 <LionKMP> ah, ok. yes, that is. :)
Jul 20 20:48:38 <lpotter> actuallly there are two gps apps for Qtopia, thye just need compiling/fixing for the neo
Jul 20 20:49:18 <Zorkman> lpotter: it really looks nice and is much faster then asu or 2007.2, i like it!
Jul 20 20:49:30 <leinir> LionKMP: No, since that one's called ASU and not qtopia :)
Jul 20 20:49:51 <LionKMP> leinir: ok, thx. (yes, that's how I knew it too)
Jul 20 20:50:00 <Zorkman> lpotter: where can i find what to do to make unsecure wireless work?
Jul 20 20:50:18 <thewtex> Zorkman: I could not get wireless to work with qtopia, and according to an entry on the mailing lists it is not working at this time
Jul 20 20:50:26 <Zorkman> ok
Jul 20 20:50:51 <Zorkman> are there webbrowsers that i can install? (for internet through the host pc?)
Jul 20 20:51:00 <leinir> Zorkman: No, also waiting for 4.4 :)
Jul 20 20:51:14 <nullpuppy> huh
Jul 20 20:51:32 <Zorkman> ok, i'll keep an eye out for 4.4 :)
Jul 20 20:51:36 <thewtex> is it still true that the kernel does not have default support for ext2?
Jul 20 20:51:40 <nullpuppy> installing matchbox-keyboard-applet on 2007.2 daily gives Cannot Find package e error.
Jul 20 20:51:42 <thewtex> I want to boot from sd
Jul 20 20:52:11 <Kensan> thewtex: Andy Green just lately changed the defconfigs but I am not sure if the images get built based on these configs.
Jul 20 20:52:14 <thewtex> i thought ext2 was much better for flash because of the journeling in ext3
Jul 20 20:52:22 <leinir> lpotter: Hey, now i've got you, any idea how to fiddle the qtopia image's keyboard layout to support Danish characters? :) (æ, ø and å)
Jul 20 20:52:28 <thewtex> Kensan: thanks
Jul 20 20:52:59 <Kensan> thewtex: http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commit;h=642cbda5f3b7e7a61512426e1d30a41ab4691123
Jul 20 20:53:23 <Kensan> thewtex: it's in the stable branch so you could try a kernel that was built within the last 2 days.
Jul 20 20:53:26 <thewtex> Kensan: thanks
Jul 20 20:53:42 <thewtex> cool
Jul 20 20:53:45 <lpotter> leinir: not real sure
Jul 20 20:53:49 <Zorkman> sftp://root@192.168.0.202/ doesn't work with qtopia... (i can log in through terminal) is this normal?
Jul 20 20:53:58 <Zorkman> i want to upload an mp3 file and try to play it
Jul 20 20:54:46 <leinir> Zorkman: i can confirm it doesn't work properly in kde4 anyway, but shell connections work through midnight commander :)
Jul 20 20:54:54 <leinir> lpotter: Hehe, ok :)
Jul 20 20:55:45 <Kensan> Zorkman: does scp work?
Jul 20 20:57:07 <Zorkman> lpotter: do i need to place the mp3 somewhere specific to be able to play it?
Jul 20 20:57:36 <Zorkman> Kensan: how do i scp?
Jul 20 20:57:43 <Zorkman> scp:// ?
Jul 20 20:57:53 <leinir> scp is a command line tool, Zorkman :)
Jul 20 20:58:12 <LionKMP> fish://user@host in Konqueror file manager
Jul 20 20:58:25 <sontek> the mediaplayer needs a lot of work, you have to create a playlist to play any songs, and you can't remove songs from the play lists
Jul 20 20:58:44 <Kensan> scp $file root@102.168.0.202:/path/to/copy/file/to
Jul 20 20:59:09 <Kensan> 192.168.0.202 rather
Jul 20 20:59:10 * goldenhawk continues so bang his head against this pppd GPRS problem
Jul 20 20:59:34 <goldenhawk> I use 'cu -l /dev/ttySAC0' and I can do the whole dialing process
Jul 20 20:59:39 <goldenhawk> But the chat script just freezes.
Jul 20 20:59:56 <goldenhawk> Gives me 'blah blah ready' but doesn't respond to ATZ
Jul 20 21:00:14 <Kensan> Zorkman: or what LionKMP said :)
Jul 20 21:00:31 <DocCod> goldenhawk: is there any other process using the gsm modem?
Jul 20 21:00:32 <Zorkman> thanks
Jul 20 21:00:40 <goldenhawk> DocCod: No
Jul 20 21:00:50 <goldenhawk> DocCod: according to lsof, nothing.
Jul 20 21:00:57 <almien> is there a list somewhere of games that you can get from opkg?#
Jul 20 21:01:00 <goldenhawk> I turned off gsmd
Jul 20 21:01:27 <DocCod> goldenhawk: try powering off the modem and then on again, and dial after this
Jul 20 21:01:34 <goldenhawk> That's what I do.
Jul 20 21:01:37 <DocCod> goldenhawk: had to do this sometimes myself
Jul 20 21:01:43 <goldenhawk> The script does that.
Jul 20 21:01:48 <DocCod> ah, ok
Jul 20 21:01:56 <goldenhawk> The script I use to connect I mean :(
Jul 20 21:02:01 <DocCod> goldenhawk: are u using om2007 or asu?
Jul 20 21:02:08 <goldenhawk> 2007.2
Jul 20 21:02:14 <Kensan> almein: you could go through the openembedded repository: http://gitweb.openembedded.net/?p=org.openembedded.dev.git;a=tree;f=packages;h=93156e7343d3ea76ad485203eff651be4d8db385;hb=org.openmoko.dev
Jul 20 21:02:18 <goldenhawk> I didn't like ASU
Jul 20 21:02:39 <leinir> goldenhawk: Well, neither does the guy programming it, so that's ok ;)
Jul 20 21:02:46 <DocCod> i heard that more ppl had trouble undr om while it worked under asu
Jul 20 21:02:56 <goldenhawk> Hmm.
Jul 20 21:03:02 <leinir> (well, the guy programming the window manager at any rate)
Jul 20 21:03:20 <DocCod> but i don't really see why it would make a difference if you killed gsmd
Jul 20 21:03:40 <DocCod> as nothing else should be using the modem
Jul 20 21:03:43 <goldenhawk> Maybe I could replace the pppd on my phone with the ASU one?
Jul 20 21:03:52 <DocCod> i think they are the same
Jul 20 21:04:05 <DocCod> om and asu share the base system
Jul 20 21:04:09 <goldenhawk> Hm.
Jul 20 21:04:11 <almien> Kensan: useful list, although something with more categorised browsing might be nice
Jul 20 21:04:39 <nullpuppy> ok, how the heck do you enable ssh over wifi?
Jul 20 21:04:45 <Kensan> almien: I agree, but that's as much as I can offer ;)
Jul 20 21:04:50 <DocCod> i could imagine that gsmd does some havoc on the modem, but that should be gone when powering it off
Jul 20 21:05:15 <almien> nullpuppy: I did ssh into phone over wifi without special changes
Jul 20 21:05:23 <Kensan> almien: install scummvm and open pandora's box ;)
Jul 20 21:05:32 <nullpuppy> almien: hrm, wierd
Jul 20 21:05:47 <nullpuppy> i can get in via usb without a problem, with ssh, it can't find the host :/
Jul 20 21:05:47 <almien> Kensan: thanks. seen a few games there.  omg someone ran GIMP on a phone?
Jul 20 21:05:57 <goldenhawk> I can also enter the stuff into 'cu -l /dev/ttySAC0' manually
Jul 20 21:05:58 <goldenhawk> And it never fails.
Jul 20 21:06:12 <almien> nullpuppy: you actually know its IP address on the wifi network?
Jul 20 21:06:13 <DocCod> goldenhawk: maybe it's a timing problem
Jul 20 21:06:15 <goldenhawk> Or if I typo something it at least tells me something went wrong.. with the chat script, I see absolutely notihng.
Jul 20 21:06:18 <nullpuppy> almien: yup
Jul 20 21:06:25 <goldenhawk> Except for a consistant 'blah blah ready' always comes up.
Jul 20 21:06:30 <goldenhawk> In the chat script output
Jul 20 21:06:54 <pantsd_> so I'm trying to compile an app which needs to link against ssl, is there a way to avoid cross-compiling openssl (or an explanation of how to get openssl to ccross compile)?
Jul 20 21:06:57 <goldenhawk> DocCod: What kind of timing problem, do you think?
Jul 20 21:07:29 <DocCod> goldenhawk: well sometimes the modem needs more time to process an instruction and is not yet ready when chat sends along the next command
Jul 20 21:07:34 <Kensan> almien: openembedded is not only for phones, but there's some cool things in the repo. More than people know I fear.
Jul 20 21:07:41 <DocCod> although it gave it's ready or ok
Jul 20 21:07:53 <goldenhawk> DocCod: I tried inserting delays into the chat script.
Jul 20 21:07:59 <Kensan> almien: btw Minisip is a voip-client, if you want to give it a shot ;)
Jul 20 21:08:01 <DocCod> i saw some kernel changes relating to this recently
Jul 20 21:08:24 <goldenhawk> DocCod: orly?  I recently upgraded my kernel to get rid of the GPS SD card problem.
Jul 20 21:08:40 <DocCod> goldenhawk: then those changes should already be in there
Jul 20 21:08:46 <almien> Kensan: more worried about emacs - try typing ctrl-meta-leftpedal-A on the neo keypad...
Jul 20 21:08:56 <goldenhawk> *sigh*
Jul 20 21:09:25 <almien> voip... that's the sort of thing OM will be good for.  I'm not planning to have a regular network connection on mine though
Jul 20 21:09:30 * goldenhawk has tried everything :/  gsmd can talk to the modem fine.. cu can talk to the modem fine.. pppd gives the first line to the chat script and that's it except SOMETIMES it works.
Jul 20 21:09:37 <DocCod> i can give u a link to how i did it on asu, maybe it gives you a new idea
Jul 20 21:09:37 <goldenhawk> Like one in 20 to 50 tries.
Jul 20 21:09:48 <Kensan> almien: well there's ssh and bluetooth/usb keyboards...
Jul 20 21:10:06 <almien> yeah I'm getting a USB to miniUSB adapter
Jul 20 21:10:47 <DocCod> goldenhawk: http://freeyourphone.de/portal_v1/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=295
Jul 20 21:11:12 <DocCod> goldenhawk: i set it up with the multiplexer, maybe you can play around a bit with that?
Jul 20 21:12:52 <goldenhawk> Oh neat!  I wasn't aware there was any progress out there with the multiplexing
Jul 20 21:13:24 <goldenhawk> Thanks DocCod I'll look into that.. maybe I could kill two birds with one stone.
Jul 20 21:13:25 <DocCod> goldenhawk: works very nice here
Jul 20 21:14:03 <DocCod> but i haven't tried on om2007
Jul 20 21:14:06 <DocCod> only on asu
Jul 20 21:14:48 <goldenhawk> So what's the deal with the different distributions?  Is one more actively developed than the others?
Jul 20 21:15:57 <DocCod> goldenhawk: om2007 is "abandonware" and asu is the new target for a stable system
Jul 20 21:16:10 <goldenhawk> Interesting.
Jul 20 21:16:22 <DocCod> but asu is still alpha state
Jul 20 21:16:41 <goldenhawk> I could tell :p
Jul 20 21:16:42 <pjz> anyone got a pointer to the how-to-boot-if-your-battery's-totally-flat instructions?
Jul 20 21:17:32 <LionKMP> doesn't it charge in that case?
Jul 20 21:17:41 <daMaestro> pjz, plug it into the AC adaptor and wait
Jul 20 21:18:20 <daMaestro> pjz, it needs to have enough juice to get almost all the way booted before it will start using AC again
Jul 20 21:19:07 <almien> pjz: someone mentioned it was similar to batteries used by another famous mobile-phone manufacturer
Jul 20 21:19:50 <daMaestro> yes, it is
Jul 20 21:23:21 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: Are you there ?
Jul 20 21:26:57 <thewtex_> if the 256 NAND Flash integrated has the rootfs on it, I only need at most a 256 MB rootfs partition on my SD card if I want to boot from it, right?
Jul 20 21:28:30 <daMaestro> thewtex_, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD
Jul 20 21:29:04 <thewtex_> daMaestro: yes, I'm there not, but it says only create two partitions: kernel and rootfs
Jul 20 21:29:21 <thewtex_> daMaestro: should it not say 3 - kernel, rootfs, data?
Jul 20 21:29:25 <balrog-k1n> you should be able to boot even with a 64MB card
Jul 20 21:29:47 <daMaestro> thewtex_, dunno... it is a wiki and all.. you could try and find out ;-)
Jul 20 21:29:56 <daMaestro> thewtex_, and then update the wiki page ;-)
Jul 20 21:30:04 <thewtex_> daMaestro: will do :-)
Jul 20 21:30:14 <pantsd_> how would I go about getting openssl into my openmoko dev enviroment?
Jul 20 21:31:33 <Ainulindale> pantsd_: in the host or target system ?
Jul 20 21:32:09 <pantsd_> on my host (in the toolchain enviroment)
Jul 20 21:33:22 <pantsd_> have an application that I want to link against openssl ftw
Jul 20 21:33:38 <Ainulindale> Mokomakefile/bitbake or toolchain ?
Jul 20 21:34:09 <pantsd_> toolchain
Jul 20 21:34:30 <Ainulindale> Can't help you then, sorry :-)
Jul 20 21:34:33 <pantsd_> should I be using one of the other ways of building packages?
Jul 20 21:40:58 <Kensan> thewtex_: the rootfs currently contains all "data".
Jul 20 21:41:16 <Ainulindale> pantsd_: That's your choice 
Jul 20 21:41:25 <Kensan> thewtex_: you can make arbitrary additional partitions and mount them wherever you like.
Jul 20 21:41:27 <Ainulindale> I only used mokomakefile and bitbake
Jul 20 21:41:41 <LionKMP> Ainulindale: did you succeed to build the whole OE?
Jul 20 21:41:49 <Ainulindale> yep
Jul 20 21:42:15 <LionKMP> cool. it always fails for me after some hours. :) did you do it with recent checkout? 
Jul 20 21:42:36 <Ainulindale> I don't know, it has less than a week
Jul 20 21:43:01 <Ainulindale> My OE.mtn timestamp is from the 13th
Jul 20 21:43:03 <LionKMP> ok, I'll try sometime (last I tried was more than 2 weeks I think)
Jul 20 21:43:16 <LionKMP> thanks
Jul 20 21:43:26 <thewtex_> Kensan: it would be much easier to keep all personal data on a separate partition, a functional home partition, so it is not all lost during flashes
Jul 20 21:44:33 <thewtex_> Kensan: or that is accessible from a boot on the NAND and the SD
Jul 20 21:44:39 <Kensan> thewtex_: indeed. Since it's all developer stuff now nobody cares about usability ;)
Jul 20 21:46:35 <thewtex_> the SD does have a purpose, no?  In normal use it should not sit idle
Jul 20 21:47:12 <LionKMP> ln -s your root home to it, doesn't that work?
Jul 20 21:47:27 <Kensan> thewtex_: yes, but it seems everybody else is busy with other stuff.
Jul 20 21:47:35 <pantsd_> yays I think I figured out how to get openssl to compile for the toolchain env :)
Jul 20 21:47:40 <pantsd_> now to celibrate with coffee :)
Jul 20 21:47:42 <daMaestro> thewtex_, the only issue with booting from that SD (that i can see) is that the gpu bus is shared with the SD card
Jul 20 21:47:55 <daMaestro> thewtex_, so there might be some negative performance issues
Jul 20 21:47:55 <LionKMP> pantsd_: hey, explain before the coffee :)
Jul 20 21:48:01 <Kensan> LionKMP: putting /home/ on it would make more sense because sometime down the road we want to get away from being root and creating a user etc.
Jul 20 21:48:15 <thewtex_> daMaestro: hmm thanks for the info
Jul 20 21:48:37 <LionKMP> Kensan: yep, but I guess root home is not in /home/ so my comment still stands :)
Jul 20 21:48:37 <thewtex_> LionKMP: I suppose you could do that, or maybe change /etc/fstab?
Jul 20 21:48:56 <pantsd_> LionKMP: edit makefile and find all the places where it explicitly says [foo] = gcc and replace with [foo] = $(CC)
Jul 20 21:49:16 <pantsd_> I have no idea why they hardcoded that stuff
Jul 20 21:49:26 <pantsd_> also make sure you configure with noasm & nohw
Jul 20 21:49:29 <LionKMP> yep, I see, thanks. 
Jul 20 21:49:40 <thewtex_> LionKMP: my root home is in /home, which is odd, and it is odd that we run as root as Kensan points out
Jul 20 21:50:01 <Kensan> LionKMP: no, root is /root ;) but  you wouldn't want to simply make a symbolic link.
Jul 20 21:50:55 <thewtex_> Kensan: I am on qtopia right now, so maybe that is why my root is at /home/root
Jul 20 21:51:01 <Kensan> thewtex_: it eases development. Now that the FR is in many peoples hands and not just developers that should change within a reasonable timeframe...
Jul 20 21:51:28 <Kensan> thewtex_: hm interesting. maybe. I don't know :)
Jul 20 21:52:01 <thewtex_> Kensan: do you have the headset? does it work for you?
Jul 20 21:52:12 <thewtex_> or anyone else for that matter?
Jul 20 21:52:38 <Kensan> thewtex_: I have never tried... I didn't buy the Neo to make phonecalls ;) at least for now
Jul 20 21:53:09 <thewtex_> Kensan: what did you buy it for?
Jul 20 21:53:18 <LionKMP> for recharging :)
Jul 20 21:56:04 <Kensan> thewtex_: the possibilities of such a hackable device are numerous :) Toying around, doing a little coding, learn a bit about embedded linux etc.
Jul 20 21:57:55 <mmaestri> hi
Jul 20 21:59:15 <thewtex_> Kensan: cool :-)
Jul 20 21:59:20 <thewtex_> hey mmaestri 
Jul 20 21:59:57 <Dave> Greetings friends
Jul 20 22:00:33 <mmaestri> UPS sucks. Big time.
Jul 20 22:00:41 <thewtex_> yo daMaestro 
Jul 20 22:00:45 <thewtex_> yo Dave 
Jul 20 22:00:55 <thewtex_> mmaestri: still waiting?
Jul 20 22:01:23 <daMaestro> Dave, yo yo
Jul 20 22:01:57 <Dave> what's poppin'?
Jul 20 22:02:10 <mmaestri> It was expected 2 days ago
Jul 20 22:04:17 <Dave> hoenoes
Jul 20 22:04:19 <Dave> ecraven =[
Jul 20 22:04:27 <davi> The FreeRunner GSM and GPS Linux kernel BLOBs are free software? I have heard it is not.
Jul 20 22:04:40 <mmaestri> And UPS phone support is beyond bad
Jul 20 22:05:25 <davi> Is the FreeRunner Linux kernel 100% free software, or has it some GSM and GPS non-free software BLOBs?
Jul 20 22:05:28 <leinir> davi: The GSM module is closed for a very simple reason - if that stuff was released, due to how badly the GSM network is designed, you could potentially kill the carrier's entire network by issuing the wrong command ;)
Jul 20 22:05:37 <Dave> -BLOB-
Jul 20 22:05:44 <leinir> So: Everything that can be opened is open :)
Jul 20 22:05:54 <Dave> Ah, goodnight Joerg :)
Jul 20 22:06:09 <jOERG_zzZZzz> n8 Dave
Jul 20 22:07:42 <Dave> :]
Jul 20 22:07:42 <davi> leinir, I understand about GSM.  Does the GPS driver use some non-free software BLOB?
Jul 20 22:08:16 <leinir> No, not that i know of :)
Jul 20 22:08:26 <davi> thanks leinir 
Jul 20 22:08:47 <leinir> Rest assured, that anything that can be opened for the freerunner is opened :)
Jul 20 22:08:53 <goldenhawk> DocCod: Well the multiplexer didn't seem to work out for me.  gsmd connects to the multiplexer's device file but the multiplexer just gives 'Write to a channel which wasn't acked to be open.' if it tries to do anything.  Apparantly the multiplexer isn't working.  *sigh*  I'm having such bad luck.  I mean, it seems like the same multiplexing software as ASU, and I don't think the kernels vary at all between ASU and om2007 .. but still it doesn't wor
Jul 20 22:08:53 <goldenhawk> k.
Jul 20 22:09:34 <davi> leinir, Is the 3G network badly designed too? so will it require that the driver be non-free too?
Jul 20 22:10:44 <Kensan> davi: the telco industry is strongly regulated. There probably won't be an open 3G chip in the forseable future.
Jul 20 22:10:59 <davi> I see.
Jul 20 22:11:03 <Kensan> davi: it's actually the same reason for the current situation with the GSM chip.
Jul 20 22:11:30 <davi> Is it about law to regulate the bands?
Jul 20 22:15:48 <davi> Is there any dead line for GTA03?
Jul 20 22:16:27 <thewtex_> davi: I waited a year and a half for the GTA02, do not wait for it if you are going to get one
Jul 20 22:17:42 <davi> So, maybe I will wait a little more up to some of the hardware and software problem of the GTA02 be fixed
Jul 20 22:18:46 <Kensan> davi: What is it you are looking for? If you are looking for an "everyday" smartphone that you can use right now: hold off.
Jul 20 22:19:06 <balrog-k1n> there is no deadline so far,a nd i hope they won't be making any official predictions anymore
Jul 20 22:19:15 <balrog-k1n> seeing as the predictions always fail :)
Jul 20 22:19:22 <almien> the software problems don't affect when you buy the phone (update the software anytime) - only hardware problems
Jul 20 22:20:34 <Kensan> almien: but it is important to have the "right" expectations. Otherwise one will be disappointed.
Jul 20 22:25:25 <davi> Kensan, I am looking for an: GSM phone + GPS + good screen resolution, but small, to be able to hack a little + radio + camera + be able to record sound + be able to record video + USB + Wifi
Jul 20 22:26:22 <davi> TV/TDT via external antenna would be a plus.
Jul 20 22:26:30 <goldenhawk> ASU has some pretty bad video performance on my freerunner.
Jul 20 22:26:38 <goldenhawk> It doesn't even sync to vblank :/
Jul 20 22:26:42 <daMaestro> goldenhawk, yeah.. the image i flashed to has that issue also
Jul 20 22:26:49 <Kensan> davi: the Freerunner might be able to cover all that functionality BUT it will take a lot of time. Plus the FR has no camera.
Jul 20 22:27:19 <davi> Kensan, has it FM?
Jul 20 22:27:25 <davi> radio?
Jul 20 22:27:33 <_newbie3> no
Jul 20 22:27:44 <Kensan> davi: no, but there might be hardware mods in the works.
Jul 20 22:27:57 <Kensan> davi: it's an open phone after all ;)
Jul 20 22:28:05 <goldenhawk> You can probably plug a radio and/or camera dongle into it.  Although I guess that kinda defeats the purpose.
Jul 20 22:28:29 <thewtex_> davi: radio over wifi ;-)
Jul 20 22:28:40 <trix> what do you guys think it would take to get xvid support in the media player?
Jul 20 22:28:41 <davi> Kensan, TDT via USB?  
Jul 20 22:28:51 <Kensan> davi: TDT?
Jul 20 22:29:39 <davi> Kensan, Terrestrial Digital TV
Jul 20 22:30:38 <Kensan> davi: right... no :)
Jul 20 22:30:39 <davi>   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_terrestrial_television
Jul 20 22:30:39 <Stroller> Evening, all
Jul 20 22:30:42 * Stroller waves
Jul 20 22:31:09 <thewtex_> hi Stroller 
Jul 20 22:31:10 <Kensan> davi: well usb works in host-mode without providing power so basically you can plugin any self-powered usbdevice
Jul 20 22:31:11 <Stroller> davi: I have always known that as DVB-T
Jul 20 22:31:40 <davi> Stroller, you are right
Jul 20 22:31:40 <_newbie3> the FR even has powered usb host, no?
Jul 20 22:31:40 <_newbie3> but still usb 1.x...
Jul 20 22:31:52 <Stroller> You could get DVB via USB dongle on the Freerunner
Jul 20 22:31:57 <MadTBone> anyone know the filename of the ringtone on ASU?  I can't seem to find an audio file in the filesystem?
Jul 20 22:31:58 <Stroller> Definately
Jul 20 22:32:22 <davi> Stroller, that is very good news
Jul 20 22:32:27 <goldenhawk> Does anyone know what motivated the switch to ASU?
Jul 20 22:32:43 <Stroller> I've enquired about FM, though, and I think the chances of a future model are quite low, unless there is suddenly high take up in India or something like that
Jul 20 22:33:04 <bobkare> Stroller: usb 1.1 will have enough bandwidth for that?
Jul 20 22:33:11 <_newbie3> on the Freerunner
Jul 20 22:33:25 <_newbie3> on the Freerunner
Jul 20 22:33:31 <Stroller> Camera is covered in next version. I estimate at least 9 months, tho'
Jul 20 22:33:34 <_newbie3> i doubt there's a sane way to do DVB on the Freerunner
Jul 20 22:33:42 <davi> I hope the Freerunner price will go down a little more. It is too much expensive to me now
Jul 20 22:33:52 <Stroller> bobkare: ah! Now there's a bloody good question. Excuse me for overlooking that aspect. 
Jul 20 22:33:53 <davi> Stroller, I can wait 9 months :)
Jul 20 22:34:16 <Stroller> I think you should expect price to rise, rather than fall.
Jul 20 22:34:26 <davi> why?
Jul 20 22:34:39 <davi> !
Jul 20 22:35:11 <Kensan> goldenhawk: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/
Jul 20 22:35:26 <Stroller> Because the price is too good at the moment, TBH
Jul 20 22:38:17 <davi> I hope GTA03 has a more impeccable design, ad the iphone for example, being rectangular instead of so much round
Jul 20 22:38:22 <davi> as*
Jul 20 22:38:32 <Stroller> No chance
Jul 20 22:38:45 <davi> more shin
Jul 20 22:38:47 <davi> too
Jul 20 22:38:48 <Stroller> GTA03 will be same form-factor, I'm really sure
Jul 20 22:39:48 <davi> Well, ... why not try to improve it a little, at least the casing?
Jul 20 22:40:04 <thewtex_> davi: who says the iphone is an improvement
Jul 20 22:40:10 <Stroller> The case is about the most expensive part
Jul 20 22:40:15 <thewtex_> it is just add brainwashing by apple
Jul 20 22:40:24 <thewtex_> ad
Jul 20 22:40:26 <thewtex_> advertising
Jul 20 22:40:33 <thewtex_> I like the styles
Jul 20 22:40:33 <davi> thewtex_, iphone has thinner borders
Jul 20 22:41:08 <thewtex_> davi: you can not take the iphone apart as easily
Jul 20 22:41:58 <thewtex_> Stroller: the case is expensive?  I would not expect that -- it is only plastic
Jul 20 22:42:20 <Stroller> AIUI it's the cost of machining the moulds
Jul 20 22:42:32 <kd8ikt> evening
Jul 20 22:42:35 <thewtex_> Stroller: I ordered one of the scratch coatings, hopefully they come with that
Jul 20 22:42:43 <thewtex_> Stroller: oh, ok, that makes sense
Jul 20 22:42:51 <Stroller> Hey, kd8ikt 
Jul 20 22:43:26 <Kensan> thewtex_: it's the mould, not the case pre se
Jul 20 22:44:12 <davi> iphone is 11.6 mm wide, while Freerunner is wider, 18.5 mm.
Jul 20 22:45:10 <davi> So, more problem to keep it inside a small pocket.
Jul 20 22:45:45 <Stroller> Oh, FFS
Jul 20 22:45:46 * kd8ikt prepares for a latest flash
Jul 20 22:46:10 * daMaestro proposes no more iphone v freerunner conversation as it's a waste of time for those reading this channel
Jul 20 22:46:10 <thewtex_> davi: I have kept phones and even smaller mp3 players before in my pocket -- not a good idea
Jul 20 22:46:11 <Stroller> davi: the Freerunner is almost identical in size to my Sony Ericsson P990i
Jul 20 22:46:49 * Stroller wishes you could get kicked for making iphone v freerunner comparisons
Jul 20 22:46:51 <Kensan> davi: the CAD-Files are open too, so maybe some thirdparty will develop a different casing an sell it.
Jul 20 22:47:05 <kd8ikt> yeah lets get a bot that kicks anyone that says iphone
Jul 20 22:47:18 <davi> Kensan, that is good news
Jul 20 22:47:44 <Kensan> Stroller: well it's the current "hot thing" on the market so I guess things can be learned from it... Apple did something right with that thing.
Jul 20 22:47:55 <davi> I like a lot the Freerunner screen resolution, 640x480, being better than the one of the iphone.
Jul 20 22:48:24 <thewtex_> davi: the screen is beautiful
Jul 20 22:48:46 <Stroller> Kensan: maybe, but the people who say this are never those who are contributing to Openmoko. Mostly it's people who aren't able to contribute, so it's all hot air
Jul 20 22:49:00 <Kensan> Stroller: eventhough the iPhone and the freerunner are very different in many aspects.
Jul 20 22:49:24 <thewtex_> Stroller: agreed
Jul 20 22:49:34 <Kensan> Stroller: that might be true, but I guess there could be a grain of truth in these "never ending" ramblings.
Jul 20 22:49:39 <davi> iphone is a closed and proprietary phone, so I will _never_ buy or recommend it. I am just exposing feedback, so maybe the next openmoko phone will be even better!
Jul 20 22:50:16 <davi> thewtex_, do you have already one?
Jul 20 22:50:25 <thewtex_> davi: please take no offense, nice to have you in the channel :-)
Jul 20 22:50:32 <thewtex_> davi: got it a few days ago :-)
Jul 20 22:50:59 <davi> no problem thewtex_ 
Jul 20 22:51:10 <Kensan> Stroller: but yes, it gets annoying ;)
Jul 20 22:51:33 <thewtex_> btw this channel rocks -- 375 nicks
Jul 20 22:51:37 <thewtex_> cool peeps
Jul 20 22:51:40 <Stroller> Kensan: you don't need to tell me that
Jul 20 22:51:41 <davi> just feedback, no more.  night
Jul 20 22:51:52 <thewtex_> nigel_c: davi
Jul 20 22:52:24 <thewtex_> s/nigel_c/night
Jul 20 22:53:48 <orzo> hello
Jul 20 22:53:56 <orzo> I want to flash a new image of openmoko
Jul 20 22:54:03 <orzo> I figure a kernel and a root image
Jul 20 22:54:37 <orzo> uImage is the kernel, but the kernel, but what is the name of the root file system?  looking at: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/200807/20080720/
Jul 20 22:55:02 <Kensan> orzo: do you have a Neo1973?
Jul 20 22:55:11 <kd8ikt> .jffs orzo 
Jul 20 22:55:18 <orzo> yes, i have gta1
Jul 20 22:55:28 <Kensan> orzo: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/200807/20080720/Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080720-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2
Jul 20 22:55:45 <kd8ikt> rootfs.jffs
Jul 20 22:55:47 <kd8ikt> :P
Jul 20 22:55:48 <Kensan> .rootfs.jffs2 is the hint ;)
Jul 20 22:55:54 <kd8ikt> read 
Jul 20 22:56:10 <orzo> hm
Jul 20 22:56:19 <kd8ikt> Starting download: [##########
Jul 20 22:56:20 <orzo> odd
Jul 20 22:56:23 <orzo> i could swear that wasnt there
Jul 20 22:56:25 * kd8ikt is flashing rootfs now
Jul 20 22:56:30 <orzo> i hit reload and i see it
Jul 20 22:57:02 <kd8ikt> ...
Jul 20 22:57:08 <Kensan> well I am off. Happy hacking.
Jul 20 22:57:25 <thewtex_> l8r Kensan 
Jul 20 22:57:42 <orzo> doesn't teh jffs2 image go with a different kernel image than the rootfs.tar.gz image?
Jul 20 22:58:06 <orzo> I would think the kernel would need to know the rootfs filesystem
Jul 20 22:58:12 <MadTBone> can someone running 2007.2 do an lsmod and put the output on pastebin (unless it's just a line or 2)
Jul 20 22:58:51 <orzo> my devel environment is hopelessly old
Jul 20 22:59:07 <orzo> is there a quicker way to get a devel environment for openmoko without building the entire OS ?
Jul 20 22:59:45 <IguanaNed> HI ALl
Jul 20 23:00:06 <IguanaNed> just wondering if anyone knows where to download qtopia desktop from.. link does not resolve 
Jul 20 23:01:23 <orzo> i see images for freerunner labled qtopia on the openmoko site
Jul 20 23:02:00 <thewtex_> orzo: qtopia-x11 is different from qtopia
Jul 20 23:02:05 <orzo> ok
Jul 20 23:02:22 <thewtex_> orzo: qtopia-x11 = ASU
Jul 20 23:02:28 <orzo> how come its not available for gta01
Jul 20 23:03:08 <thewtex_> the gta01 does not have the graphics card if I remember correctly
Jul 20 23:03:16 <orzo> oh
Jul 20 23:03:43 <orzo> i had to get a different sim card for my neo
Jul 20 23:03:47 <orzo> but i never activated it
Jul 20 23:04:23 <orzo> is the reason the neo doesnt work with certain cards due to a software bug that will eventually be fixed, or is it a permanent?
Jul 20 23:05:48 <Stroller> unknown, I think
Jul 20 23:06:26 <nullpuppy> grr, damn maps don't want to load in tangogps :/
Jul 20 23:06:57 <nullpuppy> ok, better, taht took forever...
Jul 20 23:10:02 <orzo> well, it seems i cannot turn my neo on
Jul 20 23:15:03 <torero> anyone knows where is the VMware image menctioned in wiki:Host-based_development_with_Xoo_and_Xephyr??
Jul 20 23:15:24 <torero> i tried building in ubuntu but weird things happened
Jul 20 23:16:05 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r9677abbba970 10/ (3 files in 2 dirs): ogpsd: Implemented most of the Gypsy interface
Jul 20 23:17:34 <torero> mkay ill try tomorrow, nite
Jul 20 23:30:59 * thewtex_ installed kernel support for usbtty and must reboot
Jul 20 23:42:15 <IguanaNed> Anyone know where to get Qtopia Desktop?
Jul 20 23:54:15 <Subfusc> IguanaNed, the image is in the same folder as the daily builds
Jul 21 00:03:37 <macdonalder> doc|home: how go things with ups? :D
Jul 21 00:13:03 <thewtex> Kernel panic
Jul 21 00:13:12 <thewtex> at least it is really small and the screen
Jul 21 00:13:27 <thewtex> :P
Jul 21 00:13:39 <thewtex> on the screen
Jul 21 00:14:02 * thewtex confirms that you cannot boot from a microSDHC
Jul 21 00:15:44 <thewtex> is there a way to power off from a a kernel panic without removing the battery?
Jul 21 00:16:57 <balrog-k1n> afaik there isn't any that works on gta02
Jul 21 00:17:22 <balrog-k1n> there's something that was supposed to work in the kernel but it only works on gta01 for me (so far)
Jul 21 00:20:04 <Psi> im just starting to learn linux GUI programming, should i go the GTK or QT way?
Jul 21 00:22:01 <thewtex> Psi: good question for a flame war
Jul 21 00:22:07 <Psi> heh
Jul 21 00:22:14 <pantsd_> any idea which software image I should use on my phone?
Jul 21 00:22:16 <BBishop> try both and see which one you like
Jul 21 00:22:53 <Psi> i started GTK but then i was reading that the freerunner is kinda moving away from it
Jul 21 00:23:21 <thewtex> Psi: if you want to write for freerunner, qt is probably the way to go
Jul 21 00:23:24 <BBishop> learn both then .. you could make your apps compatible ...
Jul 21 00:24:10 <niklauz> something i've been wondering about, for someone interested in python is there a way to make them work on either?
Jul 21 00:24:12 <Psi> thewtex: what about the neo
Jul 21 00:24:26 <Psi> would i only be able to run my qt apps in qtopia?
Jul 21 00:26:36 <thewtex> Psi: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions
Jul 21 00:27:35 * Psi looks
Jul 21 00:31:53 <balrog-k1n> Psi: yes, but qtopia is also not the final direction openmoko is going to support
Jul 21 00:32:19 <Psi> hm..
Jul 21 00:32:20 <balrog-k1n> both qt and gtk apps will run though
Jul 21 00:33:33 <lxuser> can i run openmoko on my iphone
Jul 21 00:33:44 <goldenhawk> That would be really cool.
Jul 21 00:33:52 <lxuser> on the 1st generation one
Jul 21 00:34:48 <goldenhawk> I wonder if there's any security in the iphone that really prevents you from tossing your own firmware on them, necessitating PSP style hacks in order to change its OS.
Jul 21 00:34:52 <walrustown> has anybody had issues with the accelerometer on /dev/input/event3 sometimes not working?
Jul 21 00:35:18 <sirkha> sooo, anyone here having problems getting to the trac login? (is that even supposed to be publicly accessible?)
Jul 21 00:35:30 <CVirus> balrog-k1n: not possible ... we don't have drivers from the iPhone's closed hardware
Jul 21 00:36:24 <Stroller> The security in the iphone that really prevents you from tossing your own software on there is ...
Jul 21 00:36:30 <Stroller> what  CVirus said
Jul 21 00:36:59 <Stroller> sirkha: I posted a bug on Trac this morning. You have to create a separate account from your wiki one
Jul 21 00:37:24 <balrog-k1n> it might be possible to cross compile most of the apps for the iphone with its SDK although various things would require porting
Jul 21 00:37:26 <sirkha> *did* i get an error when i try to access the login page
Jul 21 00:37:31 <balrog-k1n> and you couldn't run X or Linux
Jul 21 00:37:40 <sirkha> (not trying to login, but accessing the login page)
Jul 21 00:38:13 <railer> long term qtopia or 2007.2? 
Jul 21 00:38:54 <sirkha> nm, i just didn't realize what firefoxes new "unknown certificate" page looked like, thought it was an error
Jul 21 00:44:23 <niklauz> the gtk stack uses matchbox, what does the asu/fso stack use?
Jul 21 00:44:28 <sirkha> anyone here know about the sim card problem that people are having? (bug 666 (funny that))
Jul 21 00:44:44 <niklauz> sirkha: lol
Jul 21 00:45:15 <Stroller> You have Satan's SIM?!?!?
Jul 21 00:46:25 <sirkha> heh, no, but i think it is satan's bug... i think the pins on some sim cards don't line up right, or its an electrical problem in some freerunners, or something, but sometimes i can register, and sometimes i can't...
Jul 21 00:47:14 <carrar> sounds like the work of satan alright
Jul 21 00:47:21 <sirkha> i have managed to import all my contacts, get wifi going and install some games, though, so i am not entirely displeased
Jul 21 00:47:55 <sirkha> but like i said, i can only use the phone bit sometimes (not even most of the time, so far)
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 21 00:49:46 2008
Jul 21 00:52:03 <Chocky> MySQL returned error "126: Incorrect key file for table './wikidb/searchindex.MYI'; try to repair it 
Jul 21 00:52:05 <Chocky> wiki bust
Jul 21 01:21:27 <thewtex> warning: today (7/20)'s kernel is not bootable
Jul 21 01:21:40 <thewtex> does not even start
Jul 21 01:21:49 <thewtex> at least on mine
Jul 21 01:23:15 <kdubois> will the ASU kill 2007.2 eventually? i'm still a bit confused by the roadmap
Jul 21 01:23:21 <walrustown> Grrrr! why does neod open /dev/event2 and /dev/event3 ??
Jul 21 01:25:57 <jakob_> does anyone have an idea why a python application which is started by the application menu can only be started once?
Jul 21 01:26:25 <jakob_> it it started and closed. But after that it can not be started again from the menu :)
Jul 21 01:26:33 <jakob_> s/:)/:(/
Jul 21 01:26:33 <apt> jakob_ meant: it it started and closed. But after that it can not be started again from the menu :(
Jul 21 01:28:22 <Psi> does anyone know how far back ya have to go on http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/  to get a working qtopia image?
Jul 21 01:29:01 <jakob_> quickstart
Jul 21 01:29:09 <jakob_> ohh sorry :) wrong window
Jul 21 01:29:47 <Bish> my freerunner will arrive tomorrow :)
Jul 21 01:30:01 <jakob_> Bish: congratulations :)
Jul 21 01:30:05 <Bish> thanks :)
Jul 21 01:30:14 <Bish> im waitin for it sooo long :P
Jul 21 01:30:17 <Psi> i should add "on gta01" to what i said
Jul 21 01:30:59 <jakob_> Psi: I am sorry I can't help you :) maybe anyone else is still awake ;)
Jul 21 01:31:14 <Psi> heh
Jul 21 01:31:31 <Psi> ill just do it the hard way
Jul 21 01:31:58 <jakob_> I don't get it why is this damn app only starting once :(
Jul 21 01:32:54 <thewtex> Psi: the qtopia image from qtopia.net is stable
Jul 21 01:33:19 * Psi tries it
Jul 21 01:33:39 <thewtex> Psi: they have devel tutorials, a Virtual machine development environment
Jul 21 01:33:48 <thewtex> Psi: looks real nice
Jul 21 01:33:56 <Psi> sounds pretty good
Jul 21 01:34:44 <thewtex> Psi: personally, regarding your previous gtk vs qt, question, I would go qt, because it has a very nice object-orientated organization, or so I hear
Jul 21 01:34:46 <Psi> but how compaitble will the output code of the enviroment be with the future of the freerunner
Jul 21 01:35:18 <Psi> thewtex: yeah, im going to go with qt
Jul 21 01:35:18 <thewtex> Psi: the future freerunner code will run qtopia too, so it should work just as well
Jul 21 01:35:25 <Psi> thats good
Jul 21 01:37:20 <Psi> heh, i get a error page that the download can't be externally linked when i try grab the image from qtopia.net
Jul 21 01:37:42 <thewtex> Psi: go directly to the qtopia.net page
Jul 21 01:37:48 <Psi> yep, i am
Jul 21 01:38:08 <Psi> thats whats so funny about the error
Jul 21 01:38:31 <thewtex> http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/index.php here?
Jul 21 01:38:56 <Psi> i was here http://www.qtopia.net/modules/devices/openmoko.php
Jul 21 01:39:17 <thewtex> hmm
Jul 21 01:40:07 <Psi> your link is working fine
Jul 21 01:40:48 <thewtex> good deal
Jul 21 01:46:10 <thewtex> the (7/21) kernel boots :)
Jul 21 01:47:01 <Psi> the ones i tried, booted fine but non of the buttons did anything
Jul 21 01:47:29 <Psi> touchscreen ones i mean
Jul 21 01:47:46 <Psi> i was basicly stuck on the main screen
Jul 21 01:47:57 <thewtex> hmm
Jul 21 01:48:03 <thewtex> did you try MineHunt?
Jul 21 01:48:14 <thewtex> that seems to be working
Jul 21 01:49:02 <thewtex> minehunt on a touchscreen is the way it was mean to be :)
Jul 21 01:49:33 <niklauz> anyone know if there is any work on improving the security for the OM distro ie. not all root ?
Jul 21 01:49:45 <Psi> na, i couldnt click any buttons to get there
Jul 21 01:50:16 <adsllc> Sounds secure to me!
Jul 21 01:50:40 <Chocky> woo, San Diego
Jul 21 01:51:07 <zandini> Hello. I have a question about qemu with qtopia image. 
Jul 21 01:51:38 <thewtex> Psi: I did Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080721-om-gta02.rootfs.tar.gz uImage-2.6.24+git23+1d04b142ffeaa15129f046751f1366b0f0614f47-r0-om-gta02.bin
Jul 21 01:51:45 <zandini> After the lcd backlight goes to 0/64, I can't seem to get it back to normal.. I have to stop the process and restart it.
Jul 21 01:52:06 <Psi> i tried the latest one
Jul 21 01:52:08 <zandini> Is there any way to get the backlight to run back on?
Jul 21 01:52:18 <Psi> but i also tried maybe 2 others a week or so back
Jul 21 01:52:23 <Psi> all did the same thing
Jul 21 01:52:34 <CVirus> Why are there daily builds of the 2007.2 stack till now ?
Jul 21 01:52:36 <thewtex> Psi: did you say you have a gta01?
Jul 21 01:52:38 <Psi> i could press the 4 main buttons but they dont do anything
Jul 21 01:52:41 <Psi> yes
Jul 21 01:53:09 <thewtex> mm, I'm off a gta02
Jul 21 01:53:09 <Psi> about to try the qtopia.net image/kernel
Jul 21 01:53:19 <thewtex> gl :)
Jul 21 01:54:48 <goldenhawk_> Is there any way to set up a decent shell terminal with ASU?
Jul 21 01:55:36 <thewtex> goldenhawk_: what do you mean?
Jul 21 01:56:07 <goldenhawk_> thewtex: http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions <-- This page says ASU doesn't have a terminal
Jul 21 01:56:22 <goldenhawk_> I'm considering switching my phone to ASU but I want to still be able to get a shell.
Jul 21 01:56:25 <goldenhawk_> On the phone.
Jul 21 01:56:34 <thewtex> ah
Jul 21 01:57:31 <goldenhawk_> I guess there is no solution out there right now though?
Jul 21 01:57:32 <zandini> also, where can I get the source code for the qtopia package? The gnu-eabi I downloaded only seem to have gtk+ related libs..
Jul 21 01:57:40 <Stroller> it must be possible to install one - surely the same one as is installed on 2007.2 would work
Jul 21 01:58:06 <Stroller> You just need to know the package name. 
Jul 21 01:58:11 <sandman__> niklauz: I'm working on porting SELinux as a GSoC project. That should atleast improve on securing the trusted code. 
Jul 21 01:58:12 <goldenhawk_> Oh interesting :)
Jul 21 01:58:29 <goldenhawk_> openmoko-terminal2
Jul 21 01:58:30 <goldenhawk_> Neat.
Jul 21 01:58:41 <thewtex> goldenhawk_: is that it?
Jul 21 01:58:45 <goldenhawk_> Yep.
Jul 21 01:59:23 <goldenhawk_> Also I tried it once a little while ago and I was really unimpressed by the video performance :/  Is that just because it's early development stuff or am I doing something wrong?
Jul 21 01:59:30 <goldenhawk_> ASU that is.
Jul 21 01:59:58 <thewtex> not sure
Jul 21 02:00:11 <thewtex> I spent most of my short time in qtopia
Jul 21 02:00:16 <thewtex> which is really snappy
Jul 21 02:00:28 <thewtex> but they don't do x11 -- they use a framebuffer
Jul 21 02:00:33 <CVirus> Why are there daily builds of the 2007.2 stack till now ?
Jul 21 02:00:46 <thewtex> so probably
Jul 21 02:01:09 <adsllc> I believe the FR QTopia is using X11 not a framebuffer
Jul 21 02:01:18 <SpeedEvil> It is.
Jul 21 02:01:18 <CVirus> true
Jul 21 02:01:19 <adsllc> CVirus: I don't understand the question.
Jul 21 02:01:27 <adsllc> Define "now"
Jul 21 02:01:33 <CVirus> isn't the 2007.2 deprected in favor of AUS ?
Jul 21 02:01:39 <SpeedEvil> rune: tried dropping back to b, and different frequencies/
Jul 21 02:01:41 <SpeedEvil> oops
Jul 21 02:01:46 <CVirus> ASU*
Jul 21 02:01:57 <adsllc> As I understand it, nothing is deprecated - it's all running in parallel.
Jul 21 02:01:58 <SpeedEvil> deprecated, but not droped
Jul 21 02:02:23 <CVirus> ah not dropped yet you mean
Jul 21 02:03:05 <CVirus> when will it be dropped ?
Jul 21 02:03:32 <adsllc> Presumably when another line is better.
Jul 21 02:06:42 * rivalarrival loves tangogps
Jul 21 02:08:58 <pjz> is there a .tar.gz of the qtopia image?
Jul 21 02:09:18 <Chocky> yes
Jul 21 02:09:25 <aggtrfrad> hi, two very simple questions: on the next release(juky 25): is there gonna be a hardware fix for the gps delay to get first fix due to the sd-card problem? is the problem with bad soldering on the antenna connector going to be taken care of?
Jul 21 02:09:35 <aggtrfrad> juky=july...
Jul 21 02:09:50 <Chocky> aggtrfrad: wouldn't count on it. 
Jul 21 02:10:08 <pjz> anyone got a pointer? the one off of Getting Started page says 'Qtopia is not on this rotfs. This rootfs is for developers wanting to compile qtopia'
Jul 21 02:10:09 <SpeedEvil> aggtrfrad: that doesn't seem to be the problem.
Jul 21 02:10:13 <adsllc> I think the bad antenna soldering was a red herring - I don't think hardly anybody was actually affected.
Jul 21 02:10:15 <Chocky> http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080721/
Jul 21 02:10:34 <adsllc> Anyone here have the GPS antenna soldering defect?
Jul 21 02:10:50 <pjz> Chocky: woo, thanks much!
Jul 21 02:10:57 <aggtrfrad> well its in the channel topic... :p
Jul 21 02:11:35 <SpeedEvil> The fix seems to be the one on the page http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Shop:Speedevil
Jul 21 02:11:35 <adsllc> Add it to the list of stale documentation.
Jul 21 02:11:49 <Chocky> no, the actual fix is a capacitor over the SD connectors
Jul 21 02:12:04 <Chocky> which can be done by anyone with surface mount soldering skills
Jul 21 02:12:13 <SpeedEvil> And good eyesight :)
Jul 21 02:12:32 <Chocky> and equipment, etc, etc, etc.
Jul 21 02:12:53 <adsllc> Any ideas where to get the capacitor qty 1?
Jul 21 02:12:58 <Chocky> yes
Jul 21 02:13:12 <SpeedEvil> adsllc: yu can't install it with a normal soldering iron really.
Jul 21 02:13:16 <Chocky> google shopping. I have an exact link, but not with me
Jul 21 02:13:18 <pjz> what uImage should I use with qtopia?
Jul 21 02:13:31 <adsllc> I have access to a decent soldering station.
Jul 21 02:13:33 <SpeedEvil> adsllc: any electronics catalog firm.
Jul 21 02:13:41 <SpeedEvil> adsllc: have you actually uses it?
Jul 21 02:13:46 <Chocky> SpeedEvil: if you want 4000 of them, yes
Jul 21 02:13:49 <SpeedEvil> adsllc: the cap is 0.8*0.4mm or so
Jul 21 02:14:00 <SpeedEvil> Chocky: they sell 1s - well 10s too
Jul 21 02:14:09 <Chocky> the link I found, yes :p
Jul 21 02:14:10 <SpeedEvil> digikey.com mouser.com farnell.com
Jul 21 02:14:13 <Chocky> $0.80 or ssomething
Jul 21 02:14:17 <Chocky> digikey sell 4000
Jul 21 02:14:39 <thewtex> pjz: the qtopia image from qtopia.net comes packed as a tarball with rootfs+kernel
Jul 21 02:16:00 <SpeedEvil> Chocky: Oh come on.
Jul 21 02:16:31 <SpeedEvil> Chocky: the first page has 5 hits selling them in 10s.
Jul 21 02:17:08 <Chocky> exact links on the wiki, ktb
Jul 21 02:17:26 * Chocky pats Speedbot
Jul 21 02:20:04 <Chocky> hm, flash latest uboot.  doesn't seem to help booting from ext3.
Jul 21 02:21:17 <adsllc> OK - I can order 1 from mouser for $0.07 - shipping is $6.75.  Is anyone doing a group buy of these things so shipping is closer to $0.42?
Jul 21 02:21:18 <Psi> thewtex: the qtopia.net image is working fine for me :)
Jul 21 02:21:41 <thewtex> Psi: sweet :)
Jul 21 02:21:48 <SpeedEvil> adsllc: check digikey too.
Jul 21 02:21:48 <Chocky> I have a link at work where it was about $2.70 for 3 of them inc shipping
Jul 21 02:22:05 <SpeedEvil> adsllc: I'm not sure of their shipping prices to the US
Jul 21 02:22:38 <thewtex> Chocky: uboot can boot from ext3 without upgrade -- if you want to boot from ext2 you need a recent kernel
Jul 21 02:23:08 * Chocky has ext3 and today's kernel
Jul 21 02:23:37 <Chocky> but it uboot doesn't find it.
Jul 21 02:23:41 * Chocky put it in root and in /boot
Jul 21 02:24:59 <Chocky> "bad header checksum"
Jul 21 02:25:41 <mmontour> Chocky: if your u-boot had 'svnr4297' in its filename then it's built from an old source tree
Jul 21 02:26:02 <Chocky> it's not.  It's also from today
Jul 21 02:26:28 <Chocky> or indeed, tomorrow ;-)  Says July 21
Jul 21 02:28:59 <mmontour> Chocky: so no 'svnr4297' in the filename you downloaded? Or did you build it yourself?
Jul 21 02:29:04 <Chocky> sigh
Jul 21 02:29:10 <Chocky> I got it from the daily
Jul 21 02:29:15 <Chocky> http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080721/
Jul 21 02:29:19 <Chocky> give me some credit
Jul 21 02:29:34 <stephelton> why the hell does qtopia.net maximize my browser? this is intollerable.
Jul 21 02:30:09 <thewtex> pjz: did you find a tar.gz of the qtopia.net?
Jul 21 02:30:17 <thewtex> pjz: of the rootfs?
Jul 21 02:30:31 <Chocky> same link
Jul 21 02:30:39 <mmontour> Those u-boot images are still using the old tree. 
Jul 21 02:30:42 <carrar> So is it safe to load in the two files at: http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Freerunner/
Jul 21 02:30:42 <carrar> ?
Jul 21 02:31:06 <Chocky> I see.  well, I _have_ just built it too.  I can use that.
Jul 21 02:31:35 <thewtex> how would I mount a jffs2 on my desktop, or does that not make sense?
Jul 21 02:32:30 <carrar> Do I need to update uboot to load the current kernel?
Jul 21 02:32:51 <mmontour> If you used the default bitbake recipe then it will have the same problem as the buildhost ones (there's a thread about this on the devel list)
Jul 21 02:32:52 <thewtex> carrar: no
Jul 21 02:32:59 <Chocky> I see.
Jul 21 02:33:14 <Chocky> is there a prebuilt uboot somewhere, then?
Jul 21 02:33:23 <peepsalot> what causes resolv.conf to be overwritten all the time?
Jul 21 02:33:28 <Chocky> dhcp
Jul 21 02:33:54 <Chocky> but you'll have to be clearer than "all the time"
Jul 21 02:33:54 <peepsalot> it's annoying i have to keep editing it to get USB networking going
Jul 21 02:34:05 <peepsalot> i add 192.168.1.1, then later it's gone
Jul 21 02:34:17 <mmontour> I could build + upload one. The buildhost ones should get sorted out in a couple of days.
Jul 21 02:34:43 * Chocky looks at dev list.
Jul 21 02:35:44 <Marcel_M> peepsalot: edit /etc/network/interfaces
Jul 21 02:37:21 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r05e9b428da8a 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/factory.py: 
Jul 21 02:37:21 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: ogpsd: Try to claim original Gypsy busname org.freedesktop.Gypsy
Jul 21 02:37:21 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: With this ogpsd works with the standard gypsy libraries.
Jul 21 02:38:35 <peepsalot> thanks, i think i've got it set well enough now
Jul 21 02:38:47 <Marcel_M> np
Jul 21 02:38:47 <carrar> I don't need to his the aux button while the image is loading so it doesn't turn off do I?
Jul 21 02:38:58 <SpeedEvil> no - not whil it's loading
Jul 21 02:39:05 <SpeedEvil> only if you're idle at a prompt
Jul 21 02:39:16 <SpeedEvil> Or not logged in to uboot
Jul 21 02:40:29 * carrar waits in suspence
Jul 21 02:40:39 <carrar> downloading.....
Jul 21 02:41:41 <SirBob1701> is the gps kernel update up yet?
Jul 21 02:41:48 <stephelton> is downloading one of the images found at http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/ going to get me anything other than uboot that an opkg upgrade will not?
Jul 21 02:41:51 <SirBob1701> sorry little behind this week
Jul 21 02:42:21 <carrar> So in the flashing_openmoko it says:
Jul 21 02:42:22 <carrar> "Notice that it's not normally necessary to update the modules anymore. It's just for people with special needs."
Jul 21 02:42:25 <carrar> then below it
Jul 21 02:42:30 <carrar> it says you need to load modules
Jul 21 02:45:49 <mmontour> Chocky: If you want, you can try this image that I just built - http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/neo/u-boot-gta02v5-1.3.2rc2%2bgitba029a1426bfca169572bf80d50a8b190a6b0e19-r1.bin
Jul 21 02:45:57 <chillywilly> bleh, the battery life on the freerunner is not so great\
Jul 21 02:46:14 <SirBob1701> power managment isn't really implement alot right now thats why
Jul 21 02:46:17 <Chocky> ta. seeing if I can build it now
Jul 21 02:46:34 <chillywilly> SirBob1701: well I thought it would be better with qtopia
Jul 21 02:46:48 <chillywilly> but I guess it's a kernel thing?
Jul 21 02:47:09 <SirBob1701> ya ita a matter of turing crap off when not in use
Jul 21 02:47:18 <carrar> like... everything
Jul 21 02:47:26 <carrar> including the phone ;)
Jul 21 02:47:32 <chillywilly> :-/
Jul 21 02:47:37 <SirBob1701> lol no
Jul 21 02:47:45 <chillywilly> I don't leave a bunch of apps running or anything
Jul 21 02:47:56 <SirBob1701> someone said they got 21 hours on fso with poewr managment
Jul 21 02:48:53 <chillywilly> well that's nice but there's not much that is functional with FSO
Jul 21 02:49:01 <chillywilly> there's not much functional with the other stacks either ;P
Jul 21 02:49:25 <chillywilly> I haven't tried FSO yet...
Jul 21 02:49:46 <carrar> w00t!
Jul 21 02:49:48 <carrar> booting so far
Jul 21 02:49:48 <SirBob1701> i'm running asu
Jul 21 02:50:18 <SirBob1701> looking for the image with the gps update so i can flash that in.  don't know where it is by chance do you?
Jul 21 02:50:19 <chillywilly> well when I get a mutli-part SMS message the pieces are not grouped together nice
Jul 21 02:50:31 <chillywilly> and we use nagios at work for paging and I have it going to my SMS address
Jul 21 02:50:42 <rivalarrival> I'm having all kinds of problems with SMS.
Jul 21 02:51:05 <carrar> Yobuy just a gsm at type device to send SMS messages
Jul 21 02:51:09 <chillywilly> I want to dual boot this thing so that I can run qtopia when I actually want to use my phone
Jul 21 02:51:18 <carrar> connect it via serial
Jul 21 02:51:18 <chillywilly> just need more time to setup things
Jul 21 02:51:28 <adsllc> Anyone know how to change the background/desktop image?  I can't figure out why they put a b/w image on this sweet LCD!
Jul 21 02:53:30 <chipr> adsllc - go to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Today/2007.2 and search for "wallpaper"
Jul 21 02:53:43 <peepsalot> when i boot i see two progress screens, one with the picture of boots, then the openmoko orange and black.  is it supposed to show both, or should it just be one or the other?
Jul 21 02:53:59 <rivalarrival> Is there an english howto for booting from the SD card?
Jul 21 02:54:02 <peepsalot> it just seems a bit strange
Jul 21 02:54:28 <rivalarrival> peepsalot: That's typical behavior.
Jul 21 02:54:39 <chillywilly> qhat is the package for the splash screen as when I boot thing into the qtopia image it just complains there is no splash-write applet or some such thing
Jul 21 02:55:04 <adsllc> chipr: thanks!
Jul 21 02:55:33 <chillywilly> what*
Jul 21 02:55:39 <peepsalot> rivalarrival, there is a page on the wiki with instructions for this, i can't remember the exact page name though
Jul 21 02:56:07 <rivalarrival> peepsalot: Yeah, I've seen a couple for other languages that I haven't learned. :)
Jul 21 02:56:20 <peepsalot> i was able to get it to boot from it.  mostly you just format the microsd to have at least two partitions, the first is for kernel, and the second for the rootfs
Jul 21 02:56:25 <stephelton> is there an app for taking notes...?
Jul 21 02:56:30 <SirBob1701> anyone know how to set the gtk theme on these things?
Jul 21 02:56:46 <peepsalot> doing this way you don't even have to edit the uboot options
Jul 21 02:56:59 <rivalarrival> Wait... Found it.
Jul 21 02:59:44 <peepsalot> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jul 21 02:59:56 2008