**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 28 02:59:56 2008
Jul 28 03:09:51 <tkep> xmpp, my 65 lb boxer loves the red laser.  he slides all around trying to get it
Jul 28 03:10:01 <tkep> i use it for that more than for the freerunner
Jul 28 03:10:11 <tkep> but he basically tears up the house to get to it
Jul 28 03:12:25 <ieatlint> funny, i use my laser pointer exclusively for the freerunner
Jul 28 03:12:33 <ieatlint> :P
Jul 28 03:12:55 <nullpuppy> ok, made a minor update to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FreeRunner/Buttons_and_LEDs so that the userspace stuff for the LED's can be easily found again..
Jul 28 03:13:23 <nullpuppy> ieatlint: how do you use the laser pointer *with* the freerunner?
Jul 28 03:15:06 <Chocky> should be "LEDs" on the wiki.
Jul 28 03:15:20 <nullpuppy> hmm, good point ;)
Jul 28 03:15:28 <Chocky> fixed :p
Jul 28 03:15:34 <nullpuppy> awesome ;)
Jul 28 03:15:41 <ieatlint> eh... i was making a stupid joke
Jul 28 03:15:41 <Chocky> otherwise, good.
Jul 28 03:15:48 <ieatlint> so what is that supposed to be?
Jul 28 03:15:59 <Chocky> tsk, and "what's"
Jul 28 03:16:05 * Chocky fully proofs :p
Jul 28 03:16:10 <ieatlint> because the obvious major downside of it is that you're taking the leds away from program developers
Jul 28 03:17:03 <nullpuppy> Chocky: what's? where?
Jul 28 03:17:08 <Chocky> fixed also
Jul 28 03:17:08 <nullpuppy> i'm pretty sure that wasn't me
Jul 28 03:17:59 <nullpuppy> oh, i see
Jul 28 03:18:06 <nullpuppy> yeah, i'm tired. making stupid mistakes ;)
Jul 28 03:18:15 <nullpuppy> anyways, i gotta head out. i'll be back later.
Jul 28 03:18:28 * Chocky urghs at crap on the Flashing Openmoko page.
Jul 28 03:24:21 <chillywilly> does wpa_supplicant work right now?
Jul 28 03:25:09 <chillywilly> anyone?
Jul 28 03:25:17 <chillywilly> bueller? bueller?
Jul 28 03:27:06 <gweeper> I just ran 'opkg upgrade' on my system and I think it's kernel flash upgrade hosed my system twice in a row
Jul 28 03:27:27 <gweeper> i re-flashed with DFU to get back to working, then tried opkg upgrade again and it did it again
Jul 28 03:28:04 <gweeper> chillywilly: my wpa_supplicant was working fine before i hosed the kernel :(
Jul 28 03:29:35 <gweeper> i don't have the log of my first opkg upgrade run, but in the middle of the second I see "Upgrading Kernel in Flash; DO NOT stop this process; Erasing 128 Kibyte @ 7e0000 -- 98 % complete.; open input file: No such file or directory"
Jul 28 03:30:25 <gweeper> so, i'm guessing the opkg upgrade misplaced the kernel image for some reason or another and didn't notice this before it blew away the good one
Jul 28 03:32:11 <gweeper> man this place is quiet...
Jul 28 03:34:07 <gweeper> anyways, my symptoms are that the system kept running fine until the next time i rebooted, but then it hung in the opnmoko logo without a progress bar and didn't go anywhere
Jul 28 03:34:36 <gweeper> can only get out of that state by pulling the battery
Jul 28 03:36:01 <chillywilly> gweeper: well that makes me leery as I was going to run an 'opkg upgrade'
Jul 28 03:36:12 <ieatlint> gweeper: they have been made aware of the issue
Jul 28 03:36:25 <ieatlint> the easiest fix is to go grab the lastest uImage bin
Jul 28 03:36:34 <ieatlint> flash it to kernel, and done (no need to reflash rootfs)
Jul 28 03:36:45 <ieatlint> then don't upgrade the kernel for a day or two :P
Jul 28 03:37:03 <gweeper> ieatlint: yeah, i did that once assuming something had messed up accidentally, then re-ran opkg uprade again and was back in the same state
Jul 28 03:37:14 <gweeper> i guess i'll just clean up one more time and wait...
Jul 28 03:37:19 <ieatlint> yeah, something with the kernel got screwy... no idea what
Jul 28 03:37:21 <chillywilly> hmmm, my system only wants to upgrade 3 packages
Jul 28 03:37:41 <chillywilly> libc6, libgcc1, and libstdc++6
Jul 28 03:37:44 <chillywilly> done
Jul 28 03:38:41 <gweeper> well, i just wanted to check in and see if people knew about this or if i was the unlucky first ... 
Jul 28 03:38:48 <gweeper> thankfully, it looks like i'm not alone on this one :)
Jul 28 03:39:30 <ieatlint> i think they already knew about it, but i told one of the devs earlier
Jul 28 03:39:45 <ieatlint> no real harm... reflashing the kernel isn't much of a task
Jul 28 03:40:01 <gweeper> no, i was surprised at how easy it was, actually
Jul 28 03:44:06 <gweeper> ieatlint: thanks for the info
Jul 28 03:44:16 <gweeper> i'm off to sleep now...
Jul 28 03:44:21 <ieatlint> goodnight
Jul 28 03:45:38 <linuxxr> i did opkg upgrade 2 hours ago an it worked
Jul 28 03:46:29 <ieatlint> did you reboot the phone?
Jul 28 03:47:55 <linuxxr> yup
Jul 28 03:48:02 <linuxxr> it did slo
Jul 28 03:48:12 <linuxxr>  but it went through
Jul 28 03:48:26 * ieatlint shrugs
Jul 28 03:49:18 <linuxxr> i reboot now
Jul 28 03:51:24 <linuxxr> 47 secs no progress bar but it booted
Jul 28 03:51:54 <linuxxr> thats about 30 seconds longer
Jul 28 03:52:21 <linuxxr> maybe 45 sec longer
Jul 28 03:53:24 <linuxxr> dropbear uptated i guess    ok
Jul 28 03:53:44 <linuxxr> d*
Jul 28 03:56:22 <Chocky> linty: why does it say "svn help" on Lint-wifi page?
Jul 28 03:58:27 <ieatlint> i dunno, someone else put it there
Jul 28 03:58:36 <Chocky> looks bogus.
Jul 28 03:58:47 <ieatlint> i don't believe in offering help to people... so not me
Jul 28 03:58:55 <Chocky> :o
Jul 28 03:59:09 <Chocky> Then perhaps you'd care to check the page for accuracy.
Jul 28 04:04:23 <ieatlint> does anyone know where zhone keeps its ringtone?
Jul 28 04:18:11 <dufflebunk> chillywilly: I have wpa supplicant working
Jul 28 04:18:36 <undrwater> anyone got boot from SD working successfully?
Jul 28 04:19:44 <AntonTakk> ieatlint: tried the usual suspects like checking /etc/pulse/session?
Jul 28 04:19:47 <linuxxr> a transparent clock would be cool
Jul 28 04:20:43 <ieatlint> AntonTakk: no pulse
Jul 28 04:20:54 <ieatlint> and as best as i can tell, there is no mp3, wav or ogg file on the entire phone
Jul 28 04:21:25 <ieatlint> lsof doesn't seems to yield much either, although amongst 840 lines, i may have missed it (looked closely at files opened by zhone and python, but it could be through some weird app)
Jul 28 04:21:27 <linuxxr> post that wpa   ok?
Jul 28 04:22:00 <kd8ikt> heh
Jul 28 04:22:26 <ieatlint> went to the zhone git repository... there is no ringtone in it... really, i can't figure out where the hell it's stored or referenced, hehe
Jul 28 04:24:44 <ieatlint> ooh, think i found it
Jul 28 04:24:56 <CaptObviousman> it was in your pocket the whole time?
Jul 28 04:25:09 * Chocky salutes Capt. O.
Jul 28 04:25:46 <ieatlint> actually on my desk
Jul 28 04:26:41 <ieatlint> it's a sid file ... audio/prs.sid
Jul 28 04:36:18 <kd8ikt> crap... updated ubuntu thought backing up 
Jul 28 04:36:47 <kd8ikt> great my keyboards messed but i tried backing up .evolution and its not reading it
Jul 28 04:44:34 <linuxxr> S             L             A               C             K                 W                   A                         R                         E
Jul 28 04:44:42 <Chocky> sucks!
Jul 28 04:44:47 <linuxxr> LOL
Jul 28 04:44:51 <kd8ikt> amen Chocky 
Jul 28 04:44:51 <linuxxr> ol
Jul 28 04:45:18 * kd8ikt loves his debian derivative ubuntu
Jul 28 04:45:28 <linuxxr> ubuntu breaks itself with no help  how good is that
Jul 28 04:45:41 <Chocky> no bastard son of Debian for me :-)
Jul 28 04:45:56 <Chocky> Debian breaks itself for me, but that's because I insist upon unstable.
Jul 28 04:46:03 <Chocky> and normally the fix is easy.  
Jul 28 04:46:33 <Chocky> A bit too much stuff is opaque in Ubuntu for my liking.
Jul 28 04:46:38 <linuxxr> yea but im a noob an fixing anything requires that i work at it
Jul 28 04:46:49 <Chocky> no, this is IRC, not IM :p
Jul 28 04:47:16 <Chocky> Debian Etch-and-a-half out today.  It's all good.
Jul 28 04:47:45 * kd8ikt slaps a sticker on his ubuntu saying  my other linux is gentoo
Jul 28 04:47:52 <kd8ikt> :P
Jul 28 04:48:12 <AntonTakk> any of you know if th consumer ready version of asu is supposed to have a "home" app like 2007.2's today, or qtopia's........uhm...thing?
Jul 28 04:50:25 <kd8ikt> but yeah anywho i just reinstalled ubuntu on this laptop i opted for the alternative cd and i have dm-crypt full disk encryption ;)
Jul 28 04:50:40 <kd8ikt> whoah!
Jul 28 04:52:48 <linuxxr> 8.04.1?
Jul 28 04:53:09 <gambler> does freerunner have irda
Jul 28 04:53:17 <linuxxr> i guess ill download the debian iso
Jul 28 04:53:35 <Chocky> you're ill? ;p
Jul 28 04:54:35 <linuxxr> i may be after this
Jul 28 05:00:09 <kd8ikt> no gambler
Jul 28 05:00:21 <kd8ikt> i think irda is a bit depreciated
Jul 28 05:00:45 <kd8ikt> i'm sure it could be hardware modded though
Jul 28 05:02:27 * Chocky pedants
Jul 28 05:02:54 <Chocky> depreciated means lost value.
Jul 28 05:03:31 <gambler> yes like if I mod my phone and it has a bunch of wires hanging out of it, it's value will be 'depreciated'.
Jul 28 05:03:41 <gambler> i think kd8ikt meant deprecated
Jul 28 05:03:48 <Chocky> Not to mention its value.
Jul 28 05:03:52 <Chocky> pedant mode end.
Jul 28 05:06:04 <kd8ikt> who ever said wires had to hang from it
Jul 28 05:06:16 <Chocky> Yeah, the duct tape will hide it.
Jul 28 05:06:26 <kd8ikt> this same topic was argued about yesterday
Jul 28 05:06:58 <Chocky> I must have missed it ;-)
Jul 28 05:07:08 <kd8ikt> i though swaping out the aux led would be feasible
Jul 28 05:07:20 <Chocky> right.
Jul 28 05:16:05 <linuxxr> no -apic
Jul 28 05:19:45 <linuxxr> ok i got debian doingg a net install
Jul 28 05:20:09 <Chocky> nice.
Jul 28 05:20:48 <amarsh04> on your FR, linuxxr?
Jul 28 05:21:15 <linuxxr> no
Jul 28 05:21:25 <linuxxr> not on the fr
Jul 28 05:21:38 <linuxxr> that works though
Jul 28 05:21:42 <linuxxr> i guess
Jul 28 05:22:00 * Chocky hacking it right now.  bit short of space :o
Jul 28 05:22:13 <amarsh04> I was just posting to www.linuxtoday.com that Etch-and-a-half and daily built netinstall images are great for installing Debian on newly-supported hardware
Jul 28 05:22:18 <linuxxr> looks like its doing a manual erase
Jul 28 05:22:32 <linuxxr> for noobs to
Jul 28 05:22:56 <Chocky> noobtastic.
Jul 28 05:23:01 <linuxxr> netinstall on freerunner?
Jul 28 05:23:13 <linuxxr> i gotta try that
Jul 28 05:23:16 <Chocky> no, you need to debootstrap it
Jul 28 05:23:24 <linuxxr> oos
Jul 28 05:23:33 <Chocky> or use the image someone made
Jul 28 05:23:35 <amarsh04> netinstall assumes a bootable cd
Jul 28 05:24:00 <Chocky> well, there are a couple of ways.  you can DHCP/tftp it
Jul 28 05:24:02 <linuxxr> theres a full network install right?
Jul 28 05:24:11 <linuxxr> ok
Jul 28 05:24:13 <amarsh04> or a bootable usbdrive or sdcard or something that you can write to first
Jul 28 05:24:33 <Chocky> :o
Jul 28 05:25:04 <amarsh04> I booted my first home linux machine from floppies on a pc networked to a w98se box running internet connection sharing
Jul 28 05:25:26 <amarsh04> the other pc had a 28800 bps modem (-: took nearly a week
Jul 28 05:29:23 <linuxxr> yikes
Jul 28 05:30:42 <linuxxr> eracing data 43%......
Jul 28 05:31:39 <linuxxr> i guess atleast it does erase the data
Jul 28 05:32:37 <linuxxr> was ian an patrick buds
Jul 28 05:33:07 <linuxxr> did ian make sls patches too?
Jul 28 05:46:19 <undrwater> i read that there's discussion about syncing calendar and contacts with evolution or...., but i can't seem to find anything...anyone have any info?
Jul 28 05:59:39 <daMaestro> hmm the qtopia image is the most mature, but i've managed to crash it about 15 times already
Jul 28 06:00:19 <daMaestro> with regards to the invisible shield... i blame my shotty install job, but it's created an "lcd ghost" when tapping
Jul 28 06:00:50 <daMaestro> aka.. i think the material got slightly streached so when tapping on the screen the lcd is effected in other areas
Jul 28 06:00:52 <daMaestro> pretty lame
Jul 28 06:01:13 <linuxxr> ooo nos   will it come off easily?
Jul 28 06:01:26 <daMaestro> yeah, i think i can get it off
Jul 28 06:01:29 <daMaestro> going to leave it on for now
Jul 28 06:01:33 <daMaestro> i have much more to review with it
Jul 28 06:01:46 <linuxxr> wat is it anyways packing tape?
Jul 28 06:01:51 <daMaestro> overall, it fixes "not leaving grease on the screen"
Jul 28 06:02:12 <daMaestro> makes drawing on the screen much less worrysome
Jul 28 06:02:20 <linuxxr> got to be hard stuff
Jul 28 06:02:23 <daMaestro> so the handwriting rec. with the qtopia works
Jul 28 06:02:34 <daMaestro> linuxxr, http://zagg.com
Jul 28 06:03:16 <daMaestro> http://www.zagg.com/invisibleshield/openmoko-neo-freerunner-cases-screen-protectors-covers-skins-shields.php specifically
Jul 28 06:04:46 <linuxxr> yea but what does the material look like?
Jul 28 06:05:06 <linuxxr> adhesive on it?
Jul 28 06:05:20 <daMaestro> i can't quite describe it
Jul 28 06:05:27 <linuxxr> but not for the screen right?
Jul 28 06:05:35 <daMaestro> pretty cool stuff.. you spray it with this liquid and it becomes non-sticky
Jul 28 06:05:36 <linuxxr> scotch tape?
Jul 28 06:05:41 <linuxxr> oo
Jul 28 06:05:42 <linuxxr> ok
Jul 28 06:05:57 <daMaestro> but without it.. it has a lot of adheasive ability
Jul 28 06:06:08 <undrwater> daMaestro: do you recommend it?
Jul 28 06:06:12 <daMaestro> i'm not sure yet
Jul 28 06:06:14 <linuxxr> like soapy water on a decal
Jul 28 06:06:30 <daMaestro> undrwater, give me a week of actually using it
Jul 28 06:06:33 <linuxxr> clear decal
Jul 28 06:06:37 <daMaestro> undrwater, the install was... umm... yeah
Jul 28 06:06:54 <undrwater> i've watched the vids
Jul 28 06:06:56 <daMaestro> undrwater, time consuming; it's not something you want to rush
Jul 28 06:07:04 <undrwater> doesn't look fun
Jul 28 06:07:10 * daMaestro locks up the qtopia image again
Jul 28 06:07:31 <undrwater> running QT on SD?
Jul 28 06:07:38 <daMaestro> yeah
Jul 28 06:07:51 <daMaestro> oh, wait.. no. i flashed it
Jul 28 06:08:21 <daMaestro> the asu has promise, but it's not really usable right now (for what i want to play with)
Jul 28 06:11:55 * daMaestro locks up the qtopia image again (guess you can't remove network interfaces)
Jul 28 06:12:35 <methril> morning
Jul 28 06:17:21 <ChandleWEi> how to edit this file "./.evolution/addressbook/local/system/addressbook.db"?
Jul 28 06:17:26 <ChandleWEi> sqlite?
Jul 28 06:19:04 <undrwater> ChandleWEi: it's not sqlite...
Jul 28 06:20:17 <Fossi> why, o, why. i hate thee, smc wifi router pretending piece of shit. 
Jul 28 06:21:25 <ChandleWEi> undrwater: how to edit it ? just vi ?
Jul 28 06:22:05 <undrwater> ChandleWEi: no...i did some search a while ago...
Jul 28 06:22:22 <undrwater> i think there's a way to get at it via python...
Jul 28 06:22:35 <undrwater> i can't find what i discovered...it was non-trivial for me
Jul 28 06:23:03 <undrwater> someone had created a script that didn't work for me
Jul 28 06:23:55 <ChandleWEi> undrwater: thx
Jul 28 06:24:41 <undrwater> you're welcome for what it's worth...
Jul 28 06:31:16 <Fossi> i don't know why, but suddently the only thing that works is wpa_supplicant
Jul 28 06:31:29 <Fossi> before, it didn't work, only setting everything by hand
Jul 28 06:31:38 <Fossi> this wifi stuff is driving me crazy.
Jul 28 06:31:53 <undrwater> it is nutty...
Jul 28 06:43:59 <beni_> out of stock again
Jul 28 06:44:09 <beni_> fr sells very well :)
Jul 28 06:47:10 <kd8ikt> anyone know what git branch is the one compiled/released on the buildhost as latest daily?
Jul 28 06:48:01 <dcordes_> org.oe.dev?
Jul 28 06:49:36 <kd8ikt> kernel stuff
Jul 28 06:50:05 <kd8ikt> http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=summary
Jul 28 06:54:35 <Fossi> is there a quick way to check with opkg which repository it'd get a package from?
Jul 28 06:55:02 <Fossi> i get some errors about gtk+ being installed, but files being already installed by -fastscaling
Jul 28 06:55:15 <Fossi> so i wonder why it actually tries to install gtk+
Jul 28 06:57:53 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r31e56caa1f00 10/packages/bluez/ (17 files): [bluez] Rework packaging of bluez-utils and bluez-utils-alsa (only provide asound pcm plugins)
Jul 28 06:57:53 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * re38a90662fc6 10/packages/bluez/ (8 files): [bluez-utils] Package the gstreamer audio modules
Jul 28 06:57:54 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r155833963570 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-feed.bb: [task-openmoko-feed] Add bluez-utils-alsa to the feed
Jul 28 06:57:55 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r54a7b694f6de 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade opkg to get fixes for memory management
Jul 28 06:58:18 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rc574a32eb44d 10/packages/bluez/ (17 files): [bluez] Rework packaging of bluez-utils and bluez-utils-alsa (only provide asound pcm plugins)
Jul 28 06:58:18 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r610589709021 10/packages/bluez/ (8 files): [bluez-utils] Package the gstreamer audio modules
Jul 28 06:58:19 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r9cdaf2cd2df2 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-feed.bb: [task-openmoko-feed] Add bluez-utils-alsa to the feed
Jul 28 07:02:36 <daMaestro> gah, i think it's hopeless trying to get the wifi to work under the qtopia image
Jul 28 07:03:03 <daMaestro> does anyone have usb ethernet working under the qtopia image?
Jul 28 07:05:04 <ecraven> yes
Jul 28 07:05:08 <ecraven> last time i tried, it worked
Jul 28 07:07:51 <Sargun> Anyone here have an iPhone/is an iPhone dev?
Jul 28 07:09:09 <Hopscotch> good morning
Jul 28 07:10:20 <opendeep> morning
Jul 28 07:11:04 <Stroller> ~_~
Jul 28 07:11:05 <apt> STOP DOING THAT!
Jul 28 07:11:42 <Stroller> ~iphone
Jul 28 07:11:43 <apt> iSmoke, b*tch! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg1ckCkm8YI
Jul 28 07:13:11 <daMaestro> echarp, WEP?
Jul 28 07:13:40 <daMaestro> ecraven, *
Jul 28 07:14:02 <ecraven> daMaestro: WEP over usb?
Jul 28 07:14:15 <ecraven> i don't have a network with WEP, but WPA2 seems to work fine
Jul 28 07:14:29 <daMaestro> ecraven, wifi
Jul 28 07:14:40 <daMaestro> ecraven, yeah.. i need to get wep going right now
Jul 28 07:15:10 <opendeep> opendeep:can anybody tell me which .conf file in /etc/opkg to be updated for opkg update ?
Jul 28 07:16:08 <opendeep> all-feed.conf, armv4t-feed.conf  , om-gta01-feed.conf, arch.conf, neo1973-feed.conf
Jul 28 07:19:05 <daMaestro> ecraven, so you were also able to get wired (usb) inet going?
Jul 28 07:19:37 <opendeep> though I am able to ping other networks, my opkg update is failing with signature check errors .
Jul 28 07:19:46 <kd8ikt> ignore that
Jul 28 07:20:29 <ecraven> daMaestro: yes, you need to add a few rules to your host iptables
Jul 28 07:20:31 <opendeep> any clue?
Jul 28 07:20:35 <ecraven> daMaestro: the wiki explains it
Jul 28 07:20:47 <ecraven> daMaestro: look at /etc/network.d (or similar)
Jul 28 07:20:50 <ecraven> that should do the trick
Jul 28 07:20:51 <daMaestro> ecraven, i have all that done; are the expected IP address the same for the qtopia image?
Jul 28 07:20:59 <ecraven> i think so
Jul 28 07:21:28 <daMaestro> ah, wow; so they are
Jul 28 07:23:15 <daMaestro> ecraven, how can i tell the device to charge while attached to usb?
Jul 28 07:23:28 <daMaestro> ecraven, the qtopia image seems to be stupid about the fact it has a power source
Jul 28 07:23:31 <ecraven> not sure, something about host_mode and usb_mode, maybe?
Jul 28 07:23:39 <ecraven> somewhere in /sys/
Jul 28 07:25:54 <Wonka> can anyone tell me why there is a portmapper daemon started on freerunner boot?
Jul 28 07:26:11 <Wonka> as if anyone would like to use nfs on it O.o
Jul 28 07:27:11 <Fossi> root@om-gta02:~# openmoko-today 
Jul 28 07:27:12 <Fossi> openmoko-today: error while loading shared libraries: libpixman-1.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
Jul 28 07:27:19 <Fossi> anybody got a hint why?
Jul 28 07:28:14 <Fossi> i actually don't have that file
Jul 28 07:31:19 * daMaestro ZZZZ
Jul 28 07:31:39 <Fossi> guess i shouldn't have used scaredycat's repo
Jul 28 07:32:16 <Infinyte> Can you install the OpenMoko browser through the terminal on QTopia? or will that explode everything? >_>
Jul 28 07:32:36 <Stroller> Infinyte: I don't think QTopia has an X server
Jul 28 07:32:42 <swc|666> is the gps connected to the FR with RS232 or USB?
Jul 28 07:32:47 <Infinyte> Ahhh
Jul 28 07:32:51 <Infinyte> Yes, good point.
Jul 28 07:33:00 <Infinyte> Well, does Minimo require an X server?
Jul 28 07:34:09 <bumbl> where can I download actual asu stages? they seem to be removed from buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/
Jul 28 07:35:50 <Stroller> Infinyte: I would imagine anything running GUI on 2007.2 / ASU / FSU / &c would require X to do so
Jul 28 07:39:24 <Infinyte> Ah, mmkay then.
Jul 28 07:40:04 <Infinyte> By the way, did the latest stuff that's installed when you do opkg upgrade break anyone elses phone? xP
Jul 28 07:40:26 <ecraven> how can i set a global gtk theme? so that all applications will use a bigger font size?
Jul 28 07:41:24 <swc|666> does anyone know if the gps connected to the FR with RS232 or USB?
Jul 28 07:42:20 <Fossi> Infinyte: it does 'break' mine
Jul 28 07:42:31 <Infinyte> Funstuff.
Jul 28 07:42:35 <Fossi> as in, i can't start gtk apps
Jul 28 07:42:47 <bumbl> ecraven: /home/root/.gtkrc-2.0
Jul 28 07:42:49 <Infinyte> It just hangs at the boot for mine.
Jul 28 07:42:54 <Infinyte> So I just reflashed it.
Jul 28 07:43:06 <Infinyte> I hope QTopia 4.4 comes out soon.
Jul 28 07:43:42 <ecraven> bumbl: that doesn't exist on the 2007.2 images, and still all applications use non-standard font size
Jul 28 07:43:46 <Stroller> ecraven: last question on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_FAQ I think
Jul 28 07:43:49 <Fossi> i hope shr comes out soom ;)
Jul 28 07:43:55 <ieatlint> fso is definitely nice
Jul 28 07:43:55 <Infinyte> Lulz. >_>
Jul 28 07:44:17 <ecraven> Stroller: thanks!
Jul 28 07:44:19 <Infinyte> QTopia is great for us lazy people.
Jul 28 07:44:29 <Infinyte> I just wish it had a browser. >_>
Jul 28 07:44:40 <Infinyte> SHR would be awesome.
Jul 28 07:44:50 <Infinyte> Haha, but I'm sure that's waaaayyy down the road.
Jul 28 07:46:20 <Infinyte> Anyone know the release date for QTopia 4.4?
Jul 28 07:47:55 <nezza-_-> does anybody know a sip library which supports inband dtmf detection?
Jul 28 07:48:11 <BlackFog> 'morning
Jul 28 07:49:42 <bumbl> ecraven: you have to touch it and you might try to add gtk-font-name="Serif 5"
Jul 28 07:49:46 <ecraven> is there any work on glamo? the dodji repository has no changes since 2007-11
Jul 28 07:49:59 <bumbl> or Serif 10
Jul 28 07:50:00 <ecraven> bumbl: thanks, i'll try in a minute, when i have X running on debian
Jul 28 07:50:49 <bumbl> Infinyte: isn't it possible to insall minimo on qtopia?
Jul 28 07:51:02 <Infinyte> I dunno, I'm afraid to try. >_>
Jul 28 07:52:00 <Infinyte> Anyone know for sure?
Jul 28 07:52:26 <Fossi> why's there no log daemon running?
Jul 28 07:52:51 <Fossi> or the other way around: does anybody know where X writes it's log messages to?
Jul 28 07:52:57 <kd8ikt> logread
Jul 28 07:53:07 <ieatlint> Fossi: because the memory has a finite number of writes and logs take up those writes (and space)
Jul 28 07:53:13 <ieatlint> check /tmp though
Jul 28 07:53:19 <ieatlint> there are logs there for some images
Jul 28 07:53:44 <kd8ikt> yes i see x.log in /tmp
Jul 28 07:53:55 <Fossi> ah, so if i log to sd card, i could change that, right?
Jul 28 07:55:12 <Wonka> /var/volatile/tmp/x.log
Jul 28 07:55:25 <Wonka> ok, /tmp/x.log is the same
Jul 28 07:55:45 <Fossi> yeah, thanks, found it
Jul 28 07:55:54 <Fossi> could somebody please check what package libpixman-1.so.0 is supposed to be in
Jul 28 07:56:21 <Fossi> oh
Jul 28 07:56:26 <Fossi> libpixman maybe ;D
Jul 28 07:57:10 <Fossi> i wonder why something seems to depend on it on my system and still it's not installed
Jul 28 08:03:04 <Fossi> i think i properly fucked it up ;)
Jul 28 08:05:46 <Fossi> oh, wow. it's back to life
Jul 28 08:06:21 <railer> Hey anyone know a good sites for designing a theme for FR? And if no good sites available, how about any sites? And I'm pretty sure I need both matchbox and gtk
Jul 28 08:08:59 <railer> ahem..... I know you're out there I can hear you reading....
Jul 28 08:09:33 <Fossi> what about that 'patience' thing?
Jul 28 08:10:16 <railer> You talking to me fossi?
Jul 28 08:11:19 * railer pokes fossi
Jul 28 08:14:35 <railer> hello? I think I scared fossi
Jul 28 08:16:58 <railer> ieatlint?
Jul 28 08:17:13 <ieatlint> ?
Jul 28 08:17:29 <kd8ikt> boy that was quick
Jul 28 08:17:31 <railer> no one is talking to me :(
Jul 28 08:18:05 <ieatlint> xchat flashes when my nick is typed..
Jul 28 08:18:20 <ieatlint> i think they call it a feature
Jul 28 08:18:38 <railer> I assumed so, so you know nothing about themes eh?
Jul 28 08:18:46 <ieatlint> huh?
Jul 28 08:18:57 <ieatlint> i haven't been reading anything, i just responded to my flashing xcaht
Jul 28 08:19:20 <ieatlint> oh, no, i don't really know
Jul 28 08:19:35 <ieatlint> i'm not an artistic guy
Jul 28 08:19:37 <railer> np, how goes the wifi?
Jul 28 08:19:55 <ieatlint> having done much at all with it since friday
Jul 28 08:20:16 * kd8ikt pictures either default pics on ieatlint's moko or stick figures
Jul 28 08:20:17 <ieatlint> i'm screwing around with some other things and taking a break... will kill off the bugs on the tracker tomorrow
Jul 28 08:20:36 <railer> when is the convention, you're going to?
Jul 28 08:20:44 <ieatlint> kd8ikt: actually, i'm more likely to replace "flashy" pics with solid colours
Jul 28 08:20:59 <ieatlint> august 5-7 is when i'll be there
Jul 28 08:21:14 <Fossi> railer: i did
Jul 28 08:21:22 <rtyler> hey guys, I grabbed the latest rootfs from here (http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/200807/20080721/) and /etc/profile seems to have garbage in it, the touchscreen doesn't work, and the icons are all "missing" (showing the red X)
Jul 28 08:21:29 <rtyler> what's the latest stable image and such for my 1973?
Jul 28 08:21:33 * kd8ikt agree's like every windowsXP machine i made look like 95 by dumbing down the graphics flare
Jul 28 08:21:35 <railer> Fossi you disappeared!
Jul 28 08:21:42 * rtyler is curious as to how the Qtopia stuff looks
Jul 28 08:22:12 <Fossi> actually, i was taking some clothes down and folding them
Jul 28 08:22:24 <Fossi> not very copperfieldish
Jul 28 08:22:38 <ieatlint> hey, doing laundry is like magic to geeks
Jul 28 08:22:42 <railer> ahhh the old laundry, I should go do the dishes
Jul 28 08:22:58 <Fossi> dishwasher ohey
Jul 28 08:23:08 <Fossi> no dryer though :\
Jul 28 08:23:14 <railer> no laundry is not too bad ironing is magic
Jul 28 08:23:41 <Fossi> i didn't iron in a while
Jul 28 08:23:46 <ecraven> does anyone have matchbox-keyboard packages for the svn versions for the freerunner?
Jul 28 08:24:00 <Fossi> ecraven: huh?
Jul 28 08:24:09 <Fossi> ah
Jul 28 08:24:10 <Fossi> no
Jul 28 08:24:20 <Fossi> misread your sentence ;)
Jul 28 08:24:21 <ecraven> the svn version of matchbox-keyboard includes the ability to show/hide the keyboard 
Jul 28 08:24:48 <railer> anyhow a got the whole LCARs theme ready to go just need to figure out how to make it into an installable theme
Jul 28 08:27:19 <kd8ikt> anyone have a kernel that actually suspend/resumes?
Jul 28 08:29:32 <Fossi> ah, resuming is overrated
Jul 28 08:29:36 <Fossi> just start fresh ;)
Jul 28 08:30:13 <Fossi> anybody know why my perl install doesn't seem to have a strict.pm?
Jul 28 08:32:36 <Fossi> hmm. weird
Jul 28 08:32:44 <Fossi> i thought it's part of a standard install
Jul 28 08:33:21 <ecraven> Fossi: it's in one of the modules
Jul 28 08:33:27 <ecraven> perl-module-strict or something like that
Jul 28 08:33:42 <ecraven> angström seems to have a *lot* of packages for perl/python
Jul 28 08:34:06 <Rigolo> Fossi: I installed matchbox-keyboard as explained on the wiki on a July 22th image .. no problems
Jul 28 08:34:57 <Rigolo> Fossi: and yes, I do have a little keyboard icon in my top bar that I can click to show or hide the keyboard
Jul 28 08:36:12 <Fossi> Rigolo: interesting, but i guess ecraven might be interested, if at all ;)
Jul 28 08:36:35 <Rigolo> mmmmm to early ... my eyes still need to adjust to the sun :-)
Jul 28 08:36:41 <ecraven> Rigolo: thanks, i'll have a look at that ;)
Jul 28 08:36:52 <Rigolo> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Switching_Keyboards#Matchbox_keyboard
Jul 28 08:37:11 <Fossi> Rigolo: that's not really the svn version though, or is it?
Jul 28 08:37:25 <Rigolo> let me check .. one moment
Jul 28 08:37:56 <Fossi> well, then again, if you use daily feeds it prolly is
Jul 28 08:38:01 <Rigolo> matchbox-keyboard-applet - 0.0+svnr1910-r10 - 
Jul 28 08:38:01 <Rigolo> matchbox-keyboard-im - 0.0+svnr1910-r10 - 
Jul 28 08:38:01 <Rigolo> matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod - 0.0+svnr1910-r10 - 
Jul 28 08:38:15 <Rigolo> that is from the download that is linked from that wiki page
Jul 28 08:38:43 <Fossi> yeah, i think i've got the same
Jul 28 08:38:53 <Rigolo> but then again ... I also went to the matchbox site .. and browsed their svn .. and that is 3 years old :-)
Jul 28 08:39:10 <Fossi> the multitab pad is unusable without a /
Jul 28 08:39:25 <Rigolo> Fossi: but that is easily solved .. also on thw iki
Jul 28 08:39:29 <Fossi> and ctrl ;D
Jul 28 08:39:34 <kd8ikt> neat just found a lil latest kernel build mwestr built
Jul 28 08:39:35 <Rigolo> just edit a file to add that key
Jul 28 08:39:39 <Fossi> and... lot's of other things ;)
Jul 28 08:39:54 <kd8ikt> lets see if it suspends
Jul 28 08:40:39 <Rigolo> kd8ikt: later that git 25? that one broke my FR last night ... flashed the kernel from opkg .. and then did not come back anymore after a reboot
Jul 28 08:45:10 <kd8ikt> that sucks
Jul 28 08:45:32 <kd8ikt> but know i'm looking through mwesterz personal builds
Jul 28 08:46:09 <kd8ikt> http://moko.mwester.net/fixes.html
Jul 28 08:46:25 <kd8ikt> hopefully it works i finished installing everything now its test time
Jul 28 08:46:30 <kd8ikt> yay
Jul 28 08:47:10 <kd8ikt> if i remember correctly he has made dozens of kernel commits so... i think he knows wtf he's doing
Jul 28 08:47:25 <Ainulindale> I'm using his build.
Jul 28 08:48:03 <ExodusC> Hmm, I'm sad to hear GTA03 won't support 3G networks...
Jul 28 08:48:11 <kd8ikt> hows suspend/resume Ainulindale ?
Jul 28 08:48:11 <Ainulindale> But last mwester-trip kernel doesn't include the latest patches from Andy (except in the ainulindale - sigh' - image)
Jul 28 08:48:17 <ExodusC> Also, hi all
Jul 28 08:48:18 <Ainulindale> kd8ikt: Perfect.
Jul 28 08:48:27 <kd8ikt> nice
Jul 28 08:48:34 <Ainulindale> ExodusC: Where did you read that ?
Jul 28 08:48:55 <kd8ikt> speculation
Jul 28 08:48:58 <ExodusC> On Wikipedia, though I checked where they cited it from (http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-June/018950.html)
Jul 28 08:49:21 <ExodusC> Not sure if that's really official since I've really just started researching this project recently, though I've known about it for a while
Jul 28 08:49:53 <lymeca> ExodusC: Where do you read this?
Jul 28 08:49:54 <Ainulindale> ExodusC: The problem is related to the fact that 3G chipsets are a bit too closed if I recall correctyl
Jul 28 08:49:55 <lymeca> Or any info about GTA03...
Jul 28 08:49:58 <Ainulindale> s/yl/ly/
Jul 28 08:49:58 <apt> Ainulindale meant: ExodusC: The problem is related to the fact that 3G chipsets are a bit too closed if I recall correctly
Jul 28 08:50:40 <ExodusC> lymeca: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-June/018950.html
Jul 28 08:50:50 <Ainulindale> http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-June/018941.html <= read that to understand why
Jul 28 08:51:35 * lymeca would rather have freedom than UTMS
Jul 28 08:51:50 <ExodusC> I considered getting a Freerunner, but I feel like my limited Linux knowledge is well, too limited, so I guess I'll wait until it's ready for consumer use...
Jul 28 08:52:30 <Rigolo> ExodusC: mmm that might be with GTA04 ... :-)
Jul 28 08:52:35 <lymeca> UMTS I mean
Jul 28 08:52:35 <Fossi> smart choice ;)
Jul 28 08:52:50 <Fossi> lymeca: i'd rather have both ;)
Jul 28 08:52:55 <Rigolo> although I read somewhere that GTA04 is available on the PS3 .. and soon on the PC .. but now I might mix up a few things :-)
Jul 28 08:53:04 <lymeca> Fossi: True, but if I have to choose =]
Jul 28 08:53:06 <Ainulindale> ExodusC: hmmm honestly I don't know what you're meaning by "limited"
Jul 28 08:53:12 <lymeca> Rigolo: I HOPE the PC!
Jul 28 08:53:15 <Ainulindale> ExodusC: But it's usable as a standard phone (to me)
Jul 28 08:53:24 <ieatlint> lymeca: it's been confirmed for the pc
Jul 28 08:53:33 <ieatlint> and it has a flashy phone -- with a camera!
Jul 28 08:53:51 <lymeca> ohh it has?
Jul 28 08:53:53 <lymeca> Good to know.
Jul 28 08:54:04 <lymeca> Don't keep up with that sort of news.
Jul 28 08:54:07 <lymeca> I really want to play it though.
Jul 28 08:54:08 <Rigolo> would be cool to have the Freerunner as the default mobile within GTA04 :-)
Jul 28 08:54:08 <ieatlint> esrb issued a rating for it, so it was inadvertent
Jul 28 08:54:09 <ExodusC> Ainulindale: I have an Ubuntu PC I run as well as a Linux PC, but I've been a Windows user for all my life, so I still don't know my way around a terminal as well as I should :)
Jul 28 08:54:11 <ieatlint> (M)
Jul 28 08:54:12 <lymeca> No way I'm getting a PS3
Jul 28 08:54:32 <Ainulindale> ExodusC: If you're willing to give a try, it's not as difficult as it looks
Jul 28 08:54:37 <ieatlint> i bought a ps3... in part for the bluray
Jul 28 08:54:39 <Ainulindale> ExodusC: it mostly involves installing package
Jul 28 08:54:40 <lymeca> ExodusC: That doesn't make sense.  An Ubuntu PC and "Linux PC"?
Jul 28 08:54:48 <ExodusC> Err
Jul 28 08:54:50 <Ainulindale> ExodusC: so it's not that hard
Jul 28 08:54:55 <Rigolo> ExodusC: well ... goog motive to start with a FR ... then you HAVE to learn a bit more :-)
Jul 28 08:54:55 <ExodusC> lymeca: I'm stupid, I meant Windows PC :)
Jul 28 08:55:21 <Ainulindale> ExodusC: only thing you should consider, in my humble opinion, is whether you think you'll have the time and motivation to do things with it
Jul 28 08:55:23 <lymeca> ieatlint: Meh.  Blu-Ray moves = lame.  I'll nevr buy one.  I'll get 1080p rips from Bit Torrent and get a Blu-Ray burner for 50GB data discs backup
Jul 28 08:55:24 <Fossi> so you've got linux and a windows pc then
Jul 28 08:55:34 <Fossi> ubuntu counts as 'windows' doesn't it?
Jul 28 08:55:36 <Ainulindale> If you just want a smartphone with tons of things, it may not be suited
Jul 28 08:55:36 <ieatlint> ExodusC: careful with that mistake ... there's a bit of a war about people making it sound like ubunutu is not just linux, or somehow has something exclusive
Jul 28 08:55:42 <lymeca> Fossi: Hahaha
Jul 28 08:55:54 <ieatlint> lymeca: yeah, you keep telling yourself that
Jul 28 08:55:56 * Tm_T slaps Fossi 
Jul 28 08:56:00 <Ainulindale> If you want to learn/get some fun/develop things, it's just perfect
Jul 28 08:56:01 <Fossi> ;D
Jul 28 08:56:12 <lymeca> ieatlint: Why?  What's wrong with that plan?
Jul 28 08:56:13 <Fossi> (flamebait, yessir ;D)
Jul 28 08:56:25 <Tm_T> Fossi: nah, just showing idiocy
Jul 28 08:56:38 <Fossi> well...
Jul 28 08:56:47 <Fossi> everybody knows that the only real distro is gentoo
Jul 28 08:57:01 <ieatlint> lymeca: it needlessy blasts a format with the reasoning that you can pirate movies that are sub-par quality and feature wise on an open network where anyone can monitor your illegal activities
Jul 28 08:57:04 * Fossi is in flamewar mood ;D
Jul 28 08:57:21 <ExodusC> Ainulindale: I'm bad at coding, but everything I've done is on my own, I'm taking my first real course next year (though it's Java...)
Jul 28 08:57:29 <Ainulindale> Well, I want the projects SVN good to go, damned thing !
Jul 28 08:57:38 <Ainulindale> ExodusC: It doesn't matter
Jul 28 08:57:50 * Rigolo is an old gentoo user .. that moved to ubuntu because I was fed up with emerge -uDp world all the time ... and now I do apt-get update && apt-get upgrade .... so not much had changed :-)
Jul 28 08:57:52 <Ainulindale> ExodusC: I didn't do C in years, but I started again from scratch two weeks ago
Jul 28 08:57:57 <Ainulindale> ExodusC: And I'm having fun
Jul 28 08:58:05 <Ainulindale> ExodusC: Testing and documenting is also part of the process
Jul 28 08:58:10 <Ainulindale> Helping other users and so on
Jul 28 08:58:14 <kd8ikt> with all this 3g network talk, what percent of cellular providers utilize it?
Jul 28 08:58:27 <Rigolo> here in .nl .... 100%
Jul 28 08:58:31 <wibbit> I'm going to ask a question that may end up getting me flamed :/ But the usual flamers do not seem to be active :)
Jul 28 08:58:33 <Fossi> kd8ikt: enough in my town ;)
Jul 28 08:58:44 <Ainulindale> As long as you can enjoy a working phone and enjoy the fact that you're making things go towards a "free" phone, I think everyone wins something, doesn't they ?
Jul 28 08:58:48 <ExodusC> Ironically, I do not even have a 3G network in my area (yet)
Jul 28 08:58:51 <lymeca> ieatlint: I don't think rips of the same resolution and video/audio format are sub-par.  Imperceptable to my eyes and ears, and I have a 1080p projector.  It's not needlessly blasting the format, I don't buy into DRM-laden formats.  The Internet is the clear future for content distribution, and I'm sorry if Sony doesn't like that, I'm not going to line their pockets.
Jul 28 08:58:52 <wibbit> Any idea, what times lines are intended regarding getting the OS of the phone in a stable enough state that it could be considered a primary phone?
Jul 28 08:58:55 <kd8ikt> i dont think any in my state even do
Jul 28 08:59:17 <lymeca> ieatlint: I've downloaded thousands of moves and hundreds of seasons of TV shows... and any law enforcement activity?  None.
Jul 28 08:59:24 <Fossi> wibbit: well, i guess that depends on who you talk to
Jul 28 08:59:37 <Rigolo> wibbit: today ... depends on your definition of "primary phone"
Jul 28 08:59:40 <Fossi> wibbit: if you want an 'official' answer, write to openmoko, inc
Jul 28 08:59:46 <Ainulindale> wibbit: I'm using it as a primary phone
Jul 28 09:00:00 <ieatlint> lymeca: yes, because you download a 1080p movie to the tune of 9-14gb, which HAS to be the same quality as a 40gb brd ;)
Jul 28 09:00:00 <lymeca> ieatlint: Putting bits on polycarbonate platters and shipping them around the world is not sensible nor environemtally friendly.
Jul 28 09:00:05 <Ainulindale> (My needs are calls, contacts, and smses, nothing more)
Jul 28 09:00:09 <wibbit> I'd be happy with an un-official answer from an OpenMoko dev :)
Jul 28 09:00:11 <Ainulindale> Oh, and suspend of course :=)
Jul 28 09:00:14 <ExodusC> I'm hoping GTA04 will have some better hardware.  When I read the specs of the 1973 something like six or more months ago when I discovered the Openmoko project, it didn't interest me too much
Jul 28 09:00:23 <Ainulindale> (damned keyboard)
Jul 28 09:00:33 <Fossi> wibbit: then again, there are 4 distros or 6+ whatever way you count them
Jul 28 09:00:41 <Ainulindale> ExodusC: what do you mean by better ?
Jul 28 09:00:44 <Ainulindale> Fossi: 4 distros ?
Jul 28 09:00:46 <ieatlint> lymeca: and saying you haven't gotten caught yet is like a smoker saying "well, i've been smoking for 30 years and not a single cancer diagnosis so far!"
Jul 28 09:00:56 <ieatlint> doesn't need to happen more than once for you to be screwed
Jul 28 09:01:06 <kd8ikt> heh noshit
Jul 28 09:01:08 <XorA> damn, why do no cops use OpenMoko :-D
Jul 28 09:01:11 <Ainulindale> There's OM 2007.2 and ASU, that's all
Jul 28 09:01:14 <Rigolo> ieatlint: and that smoker has never been to the docter on 30 years also :-)
Jul 28 09:01:16 <Fossi> Ainulindale: well 'distros'. that'd include at least OM2007.2, ASU, FSO, SHR
Jul 28 09:01:17 <wibbit> Ainulindale: So, for you, from the perspective of phone calls, sms, contacts, it works with out any glitches?
Jul 28 09:01:24 <Ainulindale> Fossi: SHR/FSO aren't distros
Jul 28 09:01:29 <lymeca> ieatlint: A lot of Blu-Ray moves don't fill the disc.  Even if they did we will more and more see the straight rips unencoded much like we saw VOBs traded around on Bit Torrent.  Even then I'm perfectly happy taking the quality loss and not paying any money for a player and format which restricts my freedoms with nasty DRM.
Jul 28 09:01:30 <Ainulindale> Not in the common sense
Jul 28 09:01:39 <Ainulindale> wibbit: Yep
Jul 28 09:01:43 <Fossi> Ainulindale: i know :)
Jul 28 09:01:49 <lymeca> ieatlint: And you can't assume all Blu-Ray movies are on dual layer BL discs
Jul 28 09:01:52 <ExodusC> Ainulindale: Well, for example, when I saw the 1973 had a 233MHz ARM processor, it didn't interest me too much, I mean, that's great for a phone, but I always thought a little more would be better
Jul 28 09:01:53 <lymeca> because they aren't
Jul 28 09:01:56 <Ainulindale> Fossi: And you should work on SHR, or else I should destroy you
Jul 28 09:01:59 <ieatlint> lymeca: yeah, but you still have the drm
Jul 28 09:02:02 <Fossi> Ainulindale: but from a 'consumer' viewpoint, they kinda are
Jul 28 09:02:04 <Ainulindale> ExodusC: hardware on the freerunner is different
Jul 28 09:02:06 <ieatlint> hdcp exists for you still
Jul 28 09:02:09 <Fossi> Ainulindale: sure will
Jul 28 09:02:14 <lymeca> ieatlint: No it doesn't,
Jul 28 09:02:18 <XorA> its amazing how people talk about "restricting my freedoms" then remove those freedoms from others
Jul 28 09:02:23 <ieatlint> your video card makes sure it does
Jul 28 09:02:25 <Fossi> once i get that damn stuff building X(
Jul 28 09:02:29 <ExodusC> Aunulindale: I'm aware, the 3D acceleration really interested me, as well as a much faster CPU
Jul 28 09:02:33 <ExodusC> err
Jul 28 09:02:36 <Ainulindale> Fossi: What doesn't built ?
Jul 28 09:02:37 <ExodusC> Ainulindale*
Jul 28 09:02:37 * lymeca looks for HDCP on his Debian box with free software video card drivers and DVI ports.
Jul 28 09:02:41 <lymeca> Nope, not there!
Jul 28 09:02:53 <wibbit> lymeca: I strongly resent the fact that I can't go in to a shop, buy a dvd/blueray disc, and watch it on my OS of choice, I think that is just plane wrong.
Jul 28 09:02:57 <Ainulindale> ExodusC: the glamo isn't what you should look forward to, according to some people
Jul 28 09:03:06 <ieatlint> lymeca: it's added on the hardware chip, just like macrovision was back in the day
Jul 28 09:03:20 <lymeca> wibbit: Thank you.  DRM is just plane wrong, and financially supporting it hurts all of us, except Sony.
Jul 28 09:03:20 <ExodusC> Ainulindale: Is that so?
Jul 28 09:03:22 <Rigolo> wibbit: but you can also not do that with DVD's .... or laserdiscs 
Jul 28 09:03:31 <Ainulindale> ExodusC: that's only what I heard
Jul 28 09:03:41 <wibbit> lymeca: But, at the same time, these companies DO spend money recording these shows, that is an unequivocal fact. and I think shamelessly stating that you have no intention of "lining their pockets" is unfair.
Jul 28 09:03:41 <lymeca> ieatlint: WHAT hardware chip?  On my Radeon X1950?  no, not there.  I have NO HDMI ports.
Jul 28 09:03:52 <ieatlint> lymeca: anyway, you really shouldn't dismiss a format based on personal opinions or crusades
Jul 28 09:04:01 <wibbit> lymeca: I agree with DRM, it has it's place.
Jul 28 09:04:03 <ieatlint> especially when your solution is to pirate the very format you're lambasting
Jul 28 09:04:03 <lymeca> ieatlint: Why not?
Jul 28 09:04:03 <Ainulindale> ExodusC: but then, with great hardware comes great respons^Wconsumption
Jul 28 09:04:11 <lymeca> I refuse to support DRM.
Jul 28 09:04:13 <lymeca> Simple.
Jul 28 09:04:15 <wibbit> Rigolo: I included DVD's in my list.
Jul 28 09:04:24 <lymeca> I won;t buy an iPhone, I won't bu Blu-Ray movies.
Jul 28 09:04:27 <lymeca> I don't even buy DVDs
Jul 28 09:04:31 <lymeca> CSS = No
Jul 28 09:04:33 <ieatlint> heh
Jul 28 09:04:33 <Rigolo> wibbit: sorry ... missed that one :-)
Jul 28 09:04:35 <ExodusC> Ainulindale: ExodusC: but then, with great hardware comes great respons^Wconsumption
Jul 28 09:04:35 <lymeca> Region codings are a scam
Jul 28 09:04:37 <ExodusC> Ainulindale: What?
Jul 28 09:04:39 <wibbit> Rigolo: :)
Jul 28 09:04:47 <Ainulindale> ExodusC: Oh, it was a bad joke :-)
Jul 28 09:04:47 <lymeca> ieatlint: And the smoking analogy does not work at all.
Jul 28 09:04:50 <ieatlint> lymeca: your excuses are a bit too convenient to your pocket book to hold any weight
Jul 28 09:04:55 <Ainulindale> Just saying that if you have powerful hardware you will consume more power
Jul 28 09:04:57 * XorA assumes lymeca doesnt beleive in any form of license and will quite happilly violate GPL as well
Jul 28 09:04:58 <lymeca> Smoking once does little to nothing.
Jul 28 09:05:01 <ExodusC> Ainulindale: You'll have to excuse me, I didn't catch it :)
Jul 28 09:05:18 <Ainulindale> ExodusC: (an obscure reference to spiderman)
Jul 28 09:05:19 <lymeca> XorA: I would never violate the GPL, I would only write software licesned under the GPL.
Jul 28 09:05:24 <wibbit> lymeca: DRM, just means the ability to manage some thing, I have no issue with a company implementing DRM to prevent the execution of non-authorized software on corprate systems. That's just one example of where DRM is 100% appropriate.
Jul 28 09:05:24 * Rigolo is going to get some breakfast .... or brunch .. or what ever .. just something to eat :-)
Jul 28 09:05:43 <XorA> lymeca: but in your anti DRM crusade you happilly violate other just as worthy licenses
Jul 28 09:05:43 <lymeca> wibbit: It's not appropriate in my devices which I own.
Jul 28 09:05:47 <kd8ikt>  dangit used the latest mwester kern and it still gives me the white screen of death on wakeup :P
Jul 28 09:06:01 <XorA> lymeca: that blows your whole argument out the water and just shows you are too cheap to pay
Jul 28 09:06:03 <Rigolo> kd8ikt: I think they should change that color too :-)
Jul 28 09:06:06 <lymeca> XorA: It's not the licenses I'm trying to avoid, it's restrictions on my freedoms via technological locks.
Jul 28 09:06:14 <ExodusC> Suppose I'll just hold out for GTA04 
Jul 28 09:06:26 <ieatlint> lymeca: but as an advanced user like yourself, negating those blocks is a trivial affair
Jul 28 09:06:33 <ExodusC> Or at least wait to see the proposed features of GTA04
Jul 28 09:06:36 <wibbit> lymeca: That's fine, but that should not be a blanket issue with DRM. Which is, to date, all you've been lambasting. DRM irrespective of it's uses. I just wanted to show you a perfectly valid use (in my eyes).
Jul 28 09:06:36 <lymeca> I'll pay when I can buy videos in decent quality (doesn't need to be 1080p even) using free formats on the Internet.
Jul 28 09:06:37 <XorA> lymeca: so your freedoms are more important that the creators of content, amazing how many pirates pull out that card
Jul 28 09:06:45 <ieatlint> would it not be a better statement to act within your legal rights in defeating drm?
Jul 28 09:07:13 <kd8ikt> :D
Jul 28 09:07:15 <lymeca> wibbit: Point taken.  I do understand DRM can have it's place.  It's all about intent.  I refuse to accept DRM into m life and have it cripple devices or media I own.
Jul 28 09:07:25 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.dev * r2ce2b89e8361 10/packages/e17/e-wm/applications.menu: add "others" menu submenu
Jul 28 09:07:25 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.dev * rb4483a43a670 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: busycover instead of busywin.
Jul 28 09:07:26 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.dev * re159086ce423 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: fix flaunch...
Jul 28 09:07:27 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r1491446e56c1 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade Qtopia. Get tick's and jeremy's fixes (ringtone latency, keyboard fixes)
Jul 28 09:07:27 <XorA> FLOOD
Jul 28 09:07:30 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r4d40fafab09d 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] assassin update, mem leak fixes
Jul 28 09:07:33 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * rdd5f9f6f8e0b 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-feed.bb: [task-openmoko-feed] Add the important xprop, xev and xwinfo utilities
Jul 28 09:07:36 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.dev * r0921fb72bcd8 10/conf/distro/include/ (sane-srcdates.inc sane-srcrevs.inc): and update to latest efl and illume that uses vkbd wrappers in ecore_x.
Jul 28 09:07:39 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.dev * re4500146a3ca 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: up to 169... to match typo fix in ecore
Jul 28 09:07:40 <wibbit> lymeca: I certainly think that DRM on information is a bad thing.
Jul 28 09:07:42 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r8cf59c6047cb 10/packages/e17/e-wm_cvs.bb: [e-wm] Package the efm files somewhere else. we don't want to see firefox... and such
Jul 28 09:07:45 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.dev * r3e8808460daa 10/packages/e17/e-wm_cvs.bb: e- remove default tarballs of apps etc.
Jul 28 09:07:45 <ieatlint> at least get smart and switch to usenet :P
Jul 28 09:07:50 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.dev * r5d0dbabc1889 10/packages/efl1/ecore_cvs.bb: re-enable software-16 engine (option changed)
Jul 28 09:07:53 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.dev * rdec45e781e9c 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcdates.inc: up efl date to get ecore build fixes.
Jul 28 09:07:56 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.dev * rc3fcab109021 10/packages/efl1/ecore_cvs.bb: and actually use right option.
Jul 28 09:07:59 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.dev * r433fbc3aa871 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: up illume rev to fix segv
Jul 28 09:08:04 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r3db20071adaf 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade assassin. Change font, size and wording of dialogs
Jul 28 09:08:07 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r4d8ca05db6e5 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-feed.bb: [task-openmoko-feed] Put mc, gpsd and devmem2 into the feed two
Jul 28 09:08:10 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r875f55bc1183 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcdates.inc: [srcdate] Upgrade EFL to a date/time to really get today's version
Jul 28 09:08:11 <lymeca> XorA: Yes my freedoms come first.  I require such freedoms in order to financially support any technological endevour.
Jul 28 09:08:15 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * rca1f41bc3300 10/packages/openmoko-projects/illume_svn.bb: [efl] Bump the PR of efl users to force a rebuild
Jul 28 09:08:18 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r06c71e3bd7b1 10/packages/dhcp/ (dhcp_3.0.2.bb files/dhclient-nullptr.patch): [dhcp] Apply patch to make a null pointer warning/error go away
Jul 28 09:08:22 <lymeca> I'll buy OpenMoko, I'll donate to Debian and the FSF
Jul 28 09:08:23 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r0137be3e561f 10/packages/bluez/ (17 files): [bluez] Rework packaging of bluez-utils and bluez-utils-alsa (only provide asound pcm plugins)
Jul 28 09:08:26 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * rb032707db844 10/packages/bluez/ (8 files): [bluez-utils] Package the gstreamer audio modules
Jul 28 09:08:29 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * re85a00777d58 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-feed.bb: [task-openmoko-feed] Add bluez-utils-alsa to the feed
Jul 28 09:08:32 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * rdd9ee7cdf596 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade opkg to get fixes for memory management
Jul 28 09:08:32 <lymeca> I won't buy a PS3 or an iPhone
Jul 28 09:08:38 <lymeca> Thats pretty simple in my mind.
Jul 28 09:08:47 <XorA> lymeca: but you will take adventage of blu-ray for free
Jul 28 09:09:04 <ieatlint> lymeca: under your reasoning, you are getting the movies free of drm, and you should therefore be blindly writing checks to the mpaa as much as you should to debian or the fsf
Jul 28 09:09:08 <lymeca> XorA: Sort of.  I was being hypothetical, I actually have downloaded 0 Blu-Ray rips.
Jul 28 09:09:11 <wibbit> lymeca: just a thought though. If you don't agree with the limits that the producer puts on their creation, what makes you think you have a right to subvert their wishes?
Jul 28 09:09:24 <XorA> lymeca: thats ok then :-D
Jul 28 09:09:46 <XorA> lymeca: I just object to people using the freedom arguments as a cover for blatant cheapness :-)
Jul 28 09:09:53 <lymeca> XorA: I would do it though, and I've downloaded plenty of DVD rips.  I'm just not in a movie watching phase at the moment (moment being year+)
Jul 28 09:10:14 <kd8ikt> ok ladies lets drop this subject
Jul 28 09:10:15 <lymeca> XorA: Part of it is cheap.  I'm a teenager, I don't have a job.  I can't afford to spend as much money as they are asking.
Jul 28 09:10:15 <ieatlint> wibbit: well, i agree that the limits are bullshit, but i feel entitled when i purchase a blu-ray movie and play it in linux or copy it to my hdd
Jul 28 09:10:30 <ieatlint> don't violate the law, assert your rights under it
Jul 28 09:10:40 <lymeca> wibbit: It depends on what you mean by subverting their wishes.
Jul 28 09:10:45 <XorA> luckilly the ps3 makes a good blu-ray ripper :-)
Jul 28 09:10:49 <wibbit> ieatlint: I agree with that one.
Jul 28 09:11:32 <kd8ikt> i thought the whole design of bluray was to bring ripping/pirating to its knees?
Jul 28 09:11:37 <wibbit> lymeca: I'm fairly certain that downloading their content with out their copy protection mechignism in place, AND not financially rewarding them for their efforts, would be considered to be subverting their wishes.
Jul 28 09:11:43 <madwoota> as if
Jul 28 09:11:56 <ieatlint> kd8ikt: it was hacked within months of introduction
Jul 28 09:12:03 <kd8ikt> lol
Jul 28 09:12:13 <ecraven> what is the correct --host to pass to gcc when cross-compiling for the FR?
Jul 28 09:12:13 <ieatlint> it was hacked so quickly, that you could rip bluray/hd-dvd BEFORE you could play the content
Jul 28 09:12:17 <kd8ikt> but i thought they could disable disc's from playing in devices
Jul 28 09:12:24 <ieatlint>  --- on linux
Jul 28 09:12:40 <lymeca> wibbit: True, but all of this is in the context of a completely fucked up copyright system.  What is it now, LIFE + 75 YEARS??  nuts.  I mostly download DVD rips from the '80s and before.  I believe that stuff should be public domain.
Jul 28 09:12:44 <kd8ikt> devices that where compromised
Jul 28 09:12:45 <ieatlint> kd8ikt: kinda
Jul 28 09:12:58 <ieatlint> keys that become compromised can be disabled using the devices
Jul 28 09:13:16 <wibbit> I was fairly certain there was no confirmed reliable, consistent way to retrieve the data off of blue-ray discs, to be able to play unencrypted.
Jul 28 09:13:21 <lymeca> wibbit: As for breaking the DRM: good.  I don't care if any DRM-breakage is against a company's interests.  I will do it now and forever if I have to.
Jul 28 09:13:33 <lymeca> Downloading content for free is another ball of wax that's much more complicated.
Jul 28 09:13:50 <XorA> wibbit: you need to look on piratebay for raw h264 from blu-ray disks :-)
Jul 28 09:13:54 <lymeca> Pros and cons both ways
Jul 28 09:14:03 <ieatlint> XorA: that could be a dump from hdmi
Jul 28 09:14:34 <XorA> ieatlint: last I looked, that hacked up version of WinDVD was being used
Jul 28 09:14:45 * ieatlint shrugs
Jul 28 09:14:57 <lymeca> Yeah I don't keep up on it either.
Jul 28 09:14:59 <ieatlint> i haven't really tried since i first got my bd-rom
Jul 28 09:15:04 <lymeca> I do hope they prevail though.
Jul 28 09:15:06 <ieatlint> worked then though
Jul 28 09:15:18 <lymeca> I'm not clamoring for BR rips
Jul 28 09:15:20 <kd8ikt> awe sweet Ainulindale the http://moko.mwester.net/download/uImage_2008_07_16_gta02_4f77a7c0c74e54c3f0714c303b6ff14c39cae1a5.bin mwester(stable) kernel resumes perfect for me!
Jul 28 09:15:35 <ieatlint> hd is awesome though :)
Jul 28 09:15:37 <lymeca> but I hops they are traded to the far corners of the Internet
Jul 28 09:15:38 <Ainulindale> Yep but the latest andy patches for the GPS are not there
Jul 28 09:15:50 <kd8ikt> awe crap
Jul 28 09:15:52 <kd8ikt> heh
Jul 28 09:16:52 <kd8ikt> then again life would be boring if everything automagicly wokred
Jul 28 09:17:30 <wibbit> lymeca: See that bit, I have problems agreeing with.
Jul 28 09:18:22 <lymeca> I love seeing any and all data traded on the Internet, even if I'm not downloading it.  It gives me hope.
Jul 28 09:18:23 <wibbit> XorA: See the thing is, it's currently reliant on Buggy windows software to perform the task, however that can't last. So unless they find a reliably repeatable method, I'd be concerned.
Jul 28 09:19:12 <lymeca> Screw all the naysayers, this is what the Internet was for, the free sharing of information.  It's the grandest vision of the early TCP developers come to pass, and now there is a big cry to put the ship back in the bottle?
Jul 28 09:19:55 <lymeca> It won't fit back in, and I think that's good.  I'd rather back political change in the form of progressive solutions than cram decades of legacy, materialistic thinking down the proverbial throats of our childrens' futures.
Jul 28 09:20:08 <wibbit> lymeca: I bet the people that envisioned the internet, did not include in their lofty goal's the ability to perform large scale theft.
Jul 28 09:20:29 <wibbit> Just to enable those that wanted to, the ability to share their information easily, and cheaply
Jul 28 09:20:34 <madwoota> theft performed by users or corporations?
Jul 28 09:20:35 <ieatlint> lymeca: take a look at the net neutrality battle, then at china, and then tell me it won't go back in the bottle
Jul 28 09:21:03 <lymeca> wibbit: It's NOT theft, and DON'T use the term piracy.  NO one is LOSING anything.  a POTENTIAL sale lost is NO physical loss as with a theft.  Copyright infringement != theft, don't confuse it again please.
Jul 28 09:21:05 <wibbit> users don't create the movies/songs/tv shows.
Jul 28 09:21:34 * lymeca looks
Jul 28 09:21:35 <madwoota> selling someone drm infested junk then turning off your drm servers and saying "bad luck" is theft tho :)
Jul 28 09:21:40 <lymeca> ieatlint: It won't go back in the bottle.
Jul 28 09:21:45 <wibbit> lymeca: sorry, I don't agree with that mantra, please don't infringe my right to free speach, else I may have to accuse you of being hypocritical.
Jul 28 09:21:51 <lymeca> madwoota: yup YUP!
Jul 28 09:22:00 <lymeca> haha
Jul 28 09:22:06 <lymeca> oOkay well
Jul 28 09:22:56 <mjr> wibbit, well great, let's start calling everything starting from jaywalking "theft" and see how that works out for confusing the issues, like you apparently want to do
Jul 28 09:23:07 <lymeca> I don't know, there's nothing for me to say to someone who thinks that theft is the same as copyright infringement.
Jul 28 09:23:15 <lymeca> It's pretty, ummm
Jul 28 09:23:20 <lymeca> dumb
Jul 28 09:23:21 <mjr> hell, even the _law_ doesn't call copyright infringement theft
Jul 28 09:23:22 <lymeca> sorry
Jul 28 09:23:35 <ieatlint> lymeca: write a big long letter about how you feel about this, seal it, and open it in 10 years
Jul 28 09:23:43 <ieatlint> it'll be funny
Jul 28 09:23:44 <wibbit> ieatlint: hehehe
Jul 28 09:23:44 <lymeca> Okay maybe not dumb... as much as blatantly ignorant.
Jul 28 09:23:50 <mjr> at least anywhere I know, of course I don't know all laws everywhere :]
Jul 28 09:23:55 <wibbit> lymeca: no, a difference in values
Jul 28 09:24:06 <lymeca> wibbit: Respond to mjr then.
Jul 28 09:24:38 <mjr> wibbit, no, your claim is a difference in language, namely, you propagate media companies newspeak even the laws (generally) don't agree with
Jul 28 09:24:58 <lymeca> If I stole a CD from a store, the legal system will treat me differently from downloading that album.  Because the legal system isn't totally ignorant.  I'm glad you don't run the legal system is all I gotta say.
Jul 28 09:25:32 <lymeca> theft != copyright infringement, there's not much else to say
Jul 28 09:25:34 <XorA> lymeca: at least if you steal the cd they only fine you like 50 EUR and thats it :-D
Jul 28 09:25:38 <wibbit> Alas, manager is now at work, and erm, work must comense.
Jul 28 09:25:49 <lymeca> XorA: Haha, well that's not the record companies
Jul 28 09:25:54 <lymeca> =P
Jul 28 09:26:06 <XorA> lymeca: a good reason why RIAA should never be allowed to make law
Jul 28 09:26:11 <lymeca> heh
Jul 28 09:26:20 <mjr> wibbit, convenient, but weren't you _stealing_ from your manager by ircing when he wasn't around? :þ
Jul 28 09:26:45 <lymeca> XorA: mostly it's just exortion, you know, pay us or you'll have to pay an attorney to fight us
Jul 28 09:26:50 <lymeca> not proper legal repremanding
Jul 28 09:26:52 <ieatlint> this conversation went downhill way too quickly
Jul 28 09:27:03 <lymeca> mjr: HAHAHA oh man I literally laughed out loud for that one.
Jul 28 09:27:06 <lymeca> Very clever.
Jul 28 09:28:12 <lymeca> ieatlint: Do you agree with wibbit though?  Do you think that theft = copyright infringement?  Do you think that discussing and understanding such a clarification through discussion is not worth it?
Jul 28 09:28:44 <ieatlint> i think that people are in the black and white, and unwilling to see or consider a gray area
Jul 28 09:28:45 <mjr> ieatlint, tends to occur when someone wants to confuse the issue by equating dissimilar things using newspeak
Jul 28 09:29:22 <lymeca> ieatlint: Can you enlighten me on what this grey area would look like in this case?
Jul 28 09:29:40 <lymeca> Is copyright infringement "sort of" theft?  Is theft "sort of" copyright infringement?
Jul 28 09:30:11 <mjr> copyright infringement is "sort of" neglecting to honor a mercantilist monopoly
Jul 28 09:30:18 <ieatlint> lymeca: ok, say i'm toyota, and i decide to make a half-moon shaped car that looks stunningly similar to a VW ... did i "steal" the design?
Jul 28 09:30:47 <mjr> like travelling to china to trade for silk when another company holds the crown monopoly for that :]
Jul 28 09:30:50 <ieatlint> say i'm a soft drink maker, and i want to make a cola product called "koka-cola" ... did i "steal" the name?
Jul 28 09:30:54 <lymeca> ieatlint: What on earth does that have to do with copyright infringement?
Jul 28 09:31:03 <ieatlint> that is copyright infringement.
Jul 28 09:31:07 <Zorkman> indeed
Jul 28 09:31:14 <lymeca> ieatlint: WHOA NO!! That's Trademark law man!
Jul 28 09:31:15 <XorA> that is trade mark infirngement
Jul 28 09:31:18 <lindi-> ieatlint: sounds like trademark issue
Jul 28 09:31:19 <mjr> ieatlint, incorrect
Jul 28 09:31:20 <mjr> yeah
Jul 28 09:31:27 <lymeca> jeez
Jul 28 09:31:28 <lymeca> Intellectual Property my FOOT
Jul 28 09:31:28 <Zorkman> Aldi has a brand of ice tea and they call it "Iced Tea" :) that is ok becasue those are real words i guess :)
Jul 28 09:31:36 <ieatlint> heh
Jul 28 09:31:39 <lymeca> Learn difference between trademarks, copyrights, and patents
Jul 28 09:31:45 <ieatlint> it's the same concept
Jul 28 09:31:50 <lymeca> No it's not.
Jul 28 09:31:57 <lymeca> They are very different areas of law.
Jul 28 09:32:03 <ieatlint> if honda made such a car, could VW claim every honda of the style sold was a specific loss from them?
Jul 28 09:32:08 <lymeca> The laws have different origins and intent, rather.
Jul 28 09:32:12 <ieatlint> law != concept
Jul 28 09:32:30 <lymeca> Yes but those three laws represent very different concepts.
Jul 28 09:32:52 <ieatlint> copyright infringement is de facto theft IF the action is in lieu of a sale
Jul 28 09:33:09 <lymeca> Okay no.  There's no laws against this, and there's much more to a car than the design of the chassis.
Jul 28 09:33:10 <ieatlint> as to what percentage qualify under that definition... no one can realistically say
Jul 28 09:33:18 <Fossi> heh, so much FUD in here
Jul 28 09:33:20 <Fossi> amazing
Jul 28 09:33:29 <Fossi> some people sould rtfl
Jul 28 09:33:34 <lymeca> If Toyota makes a better car that looks like the VW and it is still branded Toyota, they have done nothing wrong nor illegal.
Jul 28 09:33:54 <lymeca> And this has NOTHING to do with copyrights so I have no idea why you brought up this example.
Jul 28 09:33:58 * Rigolo is wondering what DRM there is in the FR .. and if I suspend the FR am I stealing from the battery manufacturer?
Jul 28 09:34:08 <baku>  sorry, 30 minutes ago, I updated my freerunner. And now it doesn't boot. It shows the boot image, but it doesn't continue. Do you have ideas?
Jul 28 09:34:20 <Fossi> baku: flash an older image?
Jul 28 09:34:32 <ieatlint> lymeca: this is what i mean where you can't see anything in the gray area... you are right, utterly convinced of yourself and hostile to the opinions and interpretations of others
Jul 28 09:34:39 <XorA> Rigolo: all GNU/linux systems I have ever seen have deeply embedded DRM
Jul 28 09:34:40 <baku> yep ... I know... but maybe there was another approach :)
Jul 28 09:34:54 <lymeca> ieatlint: Did you just say I was right?
Jul 28 09:35:24 <lymeca> Or...did I miss an interpretation of yours that made sense or was a valid arguement that theft is "sort of" copyright infringement?
Jul 28 09:35:48 <lymeca> ...if that indeed was what you were trying to argue.
Jul 28 09:35:52 <ieatlint> no one's opinion is about to be changed, and no new perspectives are about to be understood... this conversation is pointless, off-topic, and consuming this channel as a whole
Jul 28 09:35:56 <mjr> Rigolo, not sure but there might be some DRM in the GSM chip to prevent unauthorized flashing. 
Jul 28 09:36:12 <lindi-> ieatlint: i would like to understand what your opinion was
Jul 28 09:36:18 <lymeca> mjr: In the GSM chips firmware?
Jul 28 09:36:22 <lindi-> ieatlint: so much noise that it was hard to figure that out
Jul 28 09:36:32 <Rigolo> mjr: mmmm let's buidl an openmoko-ng straight away then :-)
Jul 28 09:36:34 <lymeca> ieatlint: Yeah, I actually don't know what your opinion is after all that.
Jul 28 09:36:34 <ieatlint> my opinion, quite simply, is that copyright infringement is theft if you would have otherwise paid for the materials
Jul 28 09:36:37 <Fossi> XorA: then again, the license(s) happen(s) to be 'a tad' on the generous side ;)
Jul 28 09:36:47 <XorA> even NAND has DRM
Jul 28 09:37:03 <ieatlint> if you wouldn't have paid... it's morally questionable at best
Jul 28 09:37:05 <XorA> depends on how you define DRM really
Jul 28 09:37:15 <Rigolo> XorA: only approved bits are alowed to be stored on there? :-)
Jul 28 09:37:23 <mjr> ieatlint, and my opinion, quite simply, is that you're confusing the issue with newspeak too, though not quite as much as some others.
Jul 28 09:37:24 <lindi-> ieatlint: illegal yes
Jul 28 09:38:03 <lindi-> ieatlint: but i am not sure if changing the definition of the word "steal" is needed here
Jul 28 09:38:09 <mjr> ieatlint, why do you insist on walking over a well-defined term like theft when you could just say it's "wrong"
Jul 28 09:38:18 <ieatlint> mjr: call it a faceless corporation all you want, the people at the bottom see the cuts, not the people at the top
Jul 28 09:38:19 <mjr> (in your opinion, of course)
Jul 28 09:38:26 <ieatlint> and i just happen to know a few too many people at that bottom
Jul 28 09:38:47 <ieatlint> mjr: because i'm not a lawyer
Jul 28 09:38:49 <ieatlint> i speak english
Jul 28 09:39:00 <lindi-> ieatlint: my english dictionary says 'To constitute theft there must be a taking without the owner's consent, and it must be unlawful or felonious; every part of the property stolen must be removed, however slightly, from its former position; and it must be, at least momentarily, in the complete possession of the thief. See {Larceny}, and the Note under {Robbery}. [1913 Webster]'
Jul 28 09:39:01 <XorA> and of course the SIM in GSM is a classic DRM device
Jul 28 09:39:02 <ieatlint> colloquial english applies the words theft and steal to things the law does not
Jul 28 09:39:27 <lymeca> lindi-: Ohh, nice one.
Jul 28 09:39:36 <XorA> in Scotland to steal something you just need to prevent the owner having full use of the object
Jul 28 09:39:43 <Zorkman> lindi-: when you download something, not "every part of the property stolen" is moved :p
Jul 28 09:39:43 <Fossi> as if any big label/publisher had done anything good for music/games as a whole and not only for a few
Jul 28 09:39:50 <lymeca> There's really no arguing against Webster's.  Pull the English language card, get slapped in the face with Websters.
Jul 28 09:40:21 <mjr> ieatlint, yes, sadly colloquial english is buying into the whole confusing newspeak to some extent, but it should be fought. It _doesn't_ help anyone to call infringement theft. At best it'll make infrintement woesayers look foolish in the eyes of the new generations because _they_ know, generally, quite well it's not the same thing.
Jul 28 09:40:57 <lindi-> lymeca: well, i couldn't find anything newer that'd be free. wordnet had very short description of theft
Jul 28 09:41:06 <ieatlint> my dictionary says theft is the act of stealing
Jul 28 09:41:12 <ieatlint> and stealing is "to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, esp. secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch. "
Jul 28 09:41:22 <ieatlint> a movie == intellectual PROPERTY
Jul 28 09:41:28 <lymeca> eeewwww
Jul 28 09:41:31 <lymeca> IP
Jul 28 09:41:35 <mjr> ieatlint, intellectual property is another piece of newspeak
Jul 28 09:41:38 <ieatlint> so go right ahead and argue semantics back and forth
Jul 28 09:41:42 <lymeca> I think we just found more newspeak!
Jul 28 09:41:43 <wibbit> I'm fairly certain that how ever you want to twist it, using some one's work, and not giving them what they've asked for is wrong, legally and morally. If you don't like the terms, then don't use it.
Jul 28 09:42:05 <ieatlint> mjr: dismisses my opinions using buzz words is a really illegitimate argument
Jul 28 09:42:14 <mjr> copyrights, patents and stuff are _government-mandated monopolish_, the proponents are just trying to tack along to the more respectable "property" term
Jul 28 09:42:19 <lymeca> Theiving more of your manager's money?
Jul 28 09:42:19 <wibbit> People are very quick to say "steeling and copy right infringment are not the same thing under law", but then they skip the bit that covers copy right infringment also being wrong, as far as the law is concerned.
Jul 28 09:42:52 <wibbit> but any way, it's a matter of personal values, and I disagree with some of the one's being propagated by certain individuals.
Jul 28 09:42:56 <mjr> wibbit, then just fucking say it's _wrong_, don't say it's _the same as theft_
Jul 28 09:43:07 <mjr> that's the whole point so far
Jul 28 09:43:10 <wibbit> lymeca: I'll work extra hours to cover it.
Jul 28 09:43:13 <lymeca> wibbit: 1) the second part being true does nothing to negate the first part.  2) all laws are not created equal and some laws are BETTER broken
Jul 28 09:43:46 <wibbit> lymeca: Yes, the ones you like and the ones you don't. That's a quick way to civil anarchy.
Jul 28 09:43:58 <mjr> ieatlint, well you're _basing_ your whole argument _in_ buzzwords, so I'm not sure what to think of that
Jul 28 09:44:17 <lymeca> wibbit: Okay, I'd love it if you were a black woman and you lived in Georgia in 1825.  Then we'll see what you think of "civil anarchy".
Jul 28 09:44:20 <kd8ikt> how would i go about checking out this kernel git revision? 4f77a7c0c74e54c3f0714c303b6ff14c39cae1a5
Jul 28 09:44:27 <Fossi> i really don't care about most of this, but what *really* annoys me is that things like patents, copyright and such really made sense once when the laws were put into place
Jul 28 09:44:47 <Fossi> and most people discussing that forget about the intentions of laws
Jul 28 09:44:56 <ieatlint> mjr: theft -- the act of stealing; stealing -- taking property; property "that which a person owns" (eg, a movie)
Jul 28 09:45:04 <ieatlint> my dictionary sure has a lot of buzz words
Jul 28 09:45:09 <ieatlint> newspeak, oddly, it does not have
Jul 28 09:45:09 <lymeca> Fossi: Even the current keyholders to change the laws, it's sad, too.
Jul 28 09:45:15 <mjr> ieatlint, "intellectual property" _is_ a buzzword
Jul 28 09:45:21 <freerunnerliv1> gnomesword for freerunner ?
Jul 28 09:45:32 <kd8ikt> like what albert einstein did <stole patents and made them his own>
Jul 28 09:45:32 <ieatlint> sorry for throwing intellectual to front of the word property to be more specific?
Jul 28 09:45:58 <kd8ikt> fam-guy
Jul 28 09:46:12 <ieatlint> intellectual property: Law. property that results from original creative thought, as patents, copyright material, and trademarks.
Jul 28 09:46:23 <ieatlint> origin 1840
Jul 28 09:46:24 <mjr> ieatlint, no, not to be spesific. To borrow the respectability of the word "property" to an unrelated government-mandated monopoly (that is, copyrights).
Jul 28 09:46:25 <xt> Should be able to patent ideas imo, to prevent others from stealing my good thoughts
Jul 28 09:46:26 <lymeca> ieatlint: It actually makes it far more ambiguous than you appear to understand.
Jul 28 09:46:27 <ieatlint> man, these buzzwords...
Jul 28 09:46:48 <mjr> ieatlint, besides, taking != copying
Jul 28 09:47:16 <ieatlint> your entire argument is based on semantics
Jul 28 09:47:35 <mjr> ieatlint, of course, because I _argue_ against _your_ faulty semantics
Jul 28 09:47:48 <mjr> what else should it be based on?
Jul 28 09:47:51 <ieatlint> yes, the dictionary has quite the agenda
Jul 28 09:48:05 <mjr> no, your reading of the dictionary has quite the ageneda
Jul 28 09:48:18 <lymeca> ieatlint: Is it semantics to point out that you believe that stealing physical property is the same as copying numbers?  Guilty as charged.
Jul 28 09:48:19 <mjr> but okay, let's make it plain:
Jul 28 09:48:19 <ieatlint> i'm following a pretty specific set of words
Jul 28 09:48:43 <mjr> "<ieatlint> and stealing is "to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, esp. secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch."
Jul 28 09:48:52 * Zorkman says whoever gets exposure to open on my FreeRunner is right ^_^
Jul 28 09:48:53 <ieatlint> you say a movie isn't intellectual property and call that a "buzz word" -- even though it dates back to 1840 and specifically addresses things like a movie
Jul 28 09:48:59 <lymeca> I half expect you to start using the "terrorism" term.
Jul 28 09:49:07 <mjr> ieatlint, now, if I rather than pickpocket, point a magic wand at your watch, and copy it to my wrist, have I stolen your watch?
Jul 28 09:49:21 <ieatlint> if i'm selling watches, yeah
Jul 28 09:49:31 <mjr> hahahahaha
Jul 28 09:49:35 <lymeca> hahah
Jul 28 09:49:35 <lymeca> whoa
Jul 28 09:49:40 <lymeca> ginks
Jul 28 09:49:56 <wibbit> mjr: if some one has spent a lot of time working out that a certain combination of numbers, result in some thing incredibly productive, and they invest time and effort in to the realisation, and some one else just comes a long and benefits from that time and effort with out honoring the original persons wish, then I personally would consider that theft, and I don't care what the law says on the matter, that is my personal belief.
Jul 28 09:50:00 <mjr> okay, very well, I see you can't be budged from your insanity, carry on
Jul 28 09:50:13 <lymeca> ieatlint: find ONE country, ONE government, ONE legal system, ONE court who would agree with you
Jul 28 09:50:21 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03tick * r4559 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/libopkg/ (6 files): opkg: make .opk as the default opkg file extension
Jul 28 09:50:29 <lindi-> ieatlint: i don't still see why you'd want to change the definition of 'theft' to include copyright infridgement. as mjr said you can just have both and call them wrong
Jul 28 09:50:45 <lymeca> Yes!
Jul 28 09:50:54 <ieatlint> fine, i'll argue my semantics
Jul 28 09:50:55 <lymeca> Just please say they're both wrong!
Jul 28 09:50:59 <Fossi> lymeca: well, if you call it 'intellectual property', 'copyright infringement'  and 'piracy' you might
Jul 28 09:51:00 <ieatlint> copyright infringement is tantamount to theft
Jul 28 09:51:39 <mjr> lindi-, it's because they want the respectability of preventing "theft" to carry on to preventing "infrigingement", it's pure and simple propaganda
Jul 28 09:51:40 <Fossi> tantwhat?
Jul 28 09:51:46 * Fossi gets a dictionary ;D
Jul 28 09:52:05 <ieatlint> yeah, i didn't know the word until i learnt about NAFTA :)
Jul 28 09:52:22 <Fossi> what's the nafta tantamount to?
Jul 28 09:52:29 <ieatlint> nothing
Jul 28 09:52:36 <ieatlint> well, you could argue something
Jul 28 09:52:55 <kd8ikt> that like coleman camp fuel?
Jul 28 09:52:58 <kd8ikt> heh
Jul 28 09:52:59 <mjr> wibbit, anyway, you'd better arrange to be paid for what you do beforehand, or take the risk as an entrepreneur. I don't think the government should intervene in that manner.
Jul 28 09:53:25 <Zorkman> aany has the problem that the powerbutton doesn't work anymore in the ASU?
Jul 28 09:53:26 <kd8ikt> zippos fuel
Jul 28 09:53:32 <Zorkman> short press or long press do nothing
Jul 28 09:53:32 <kd8ikt> naptha
Jul 28 09:53:54 <Zorkman> (it does work in 2007.2 so no hardware issue)
Jul 28 09:54:18 <ieatlint> Fossi: think of it this way, if i were a huge unkempt and buff guy who stood outside an atm, and asked people firmly "can i please have the money you just withdrew?" -- that would be tantamount to theft -- even though i asked, not demanded
Jul 28 09:55:10 <lymeca> ieatlint: And then the smaller person wouldn't have that money anymore.  Tantamount to theft it is.  Copyright infringement is fundamentally different, too bad you ignore that.
Jul 28 09:55:16 <Fossi> ieatlint: well, that's bullying ;D
Jul 28 09:55:24 <Fossi> you put presure on the people
Jul 28 09:55:27 <mjr> ieatlint, again, taking != copying
Jul 28 09:55:44 <Zorkman> anyone: power button doesn't work in the asu and now it doesnt work to start up my device!
Jul 28 09:55:58 <ieatlint> mjr: well, our values are different
Jul 28 09:56:04 <lymeca> I feel like I'm talking to a brainwashed Apple fanboy about why the iPhone is harmful.
Jul 28 09:56:06 <Fossi> if i pressure someone to 'copy' some stuff they made, that's more like it
Jul 28 09:56:16 <ieatlint> i'm a huge fan of OSS, and support the GPL and have been an EFF member since 2000
Jul 28 09:56:19 <mjr> ieatlint, no, our language is different. You're trying to use yours for political points.
Jul 28 09:56:20 <wibbit> mjr, you make a good point, the government certainly should look to protect the rights of their charges, that would just be stupid.
Jul 28 09:56:20 <Fossi> i understand that people make a living from movies etc
Jul 28 09:56:23 <lindi-> ieatlint: mv and cp are different things :)
Jul 28 09:56:25 <lymeca> ieatlint: It has nothing to do with VALUES.
Jul 28 09:56:29 <Fossi> and i want to support those people
Jul 28 09:56:39 <Fossi> and i guess that's the same with everybody in here
Jul 28 09:56:46 <lindi-> ieatlint: we can't even discuss values if we can't agree on terminology :)
Jul 28 09:56:47 <wibbit> mjr: While we are on it, I suppose I should make sure I bring my revolver out where ever I go, just to protect my self from any one who looks to do me harm.
Jul 28 09:56:48 <mjr> ieatlint, of course our values are different as well
Jul 28 09:56:57 <Fossi> but the whole industry and drm is not something i want to support
Jul 28 09:56:59 <lymeca> It has to do with FACTS, language, and definitions of words we agree upon in order to have a sane, logical dialogue about the world around us.
Jul 28 09:56:59 <mjr> ieatlint, but that wasn't the issue just now
Jul 28 09:57:26 * XorA just reminds people that Linus stole SCO using IBM :-D
Jul 28 09:57:41 * ieatlint shakes his head
Jul 28 09:57:55 <ieatlint> until you acknowledge a gray area, i refuse to continue this conversation
Jul 28 09:58:02 * lpotter thought IBM stole Linus from SCO
Jul 28 09:58:12 <mjr> wibbit, of course they should protect the citizen's rights. I merely emphatically do not believe that anyone has an inalienable right to stop people from helping each other out with information.
Jul 28 09:58:14 <lymeca> wibbit: What dos that have to do with anything?  It might be making a valid point but I don't get it.
Jul 28 09:58:55 <Zorkman> is there anything i can do except removing the button when the powerbutton doesn't work? (to boot the device)
Jul 28 09:59:26 <Fossi> http://rafb.net/p/K0yCuR92.html hints anybody?
Jul 28 09:59:27 <wibbit> mjr: I think if two parties which to work together, then so be it (and the world will honestly be a better place for it). But that's not what is being discussed here (or I didn't think it was).
Jul 28 09:59:27 <Zorkman> (the battery is fully charged)
Jul 28 10:00:04 <mjr> wibbit, yes it was. Copyright == right to prevent people from helping each other
Jul 28 10:00:30 <Fossi> Zorkman: ssh in?
Jul 28 10:01:25 <wibbit> mjr: "people helping each other" is significantly different from people making use of some one elses work against their express permission. They are NOT the same thing, and I'm sorry, but the argument is idiotic to suggest it is, 
Jul 28 10:02:18 <Zorkman> Fossi: but i can't even get into uboot; is it possible to do something then?
Jul 28 10:03:01 <Fossi> Zorkman: so the telephone doesn't start?
Jul 28 10:03:05 <edistar> Zorkman: what happened?
Jul 28 10:03:15 <ecraven> anyone here toolchain-savvy?
Jul 28 10:03:25 <ecraven> where do i get xtst for the neo? i want to add it to my toolchain
Jul 28 10:03:51 <wibbit> Fossi: Zorkman, edistar; you're not actually going to try and have an on topic conversation are you?!?
Jul 28 10:03:54 <Zorkman> Fossi: no i get no response from power button or power +auw or aux + power
Jul 28 10:03:56 <mjr> wibbit, nay, they're merely using the results of that work. This is important. People should be paid for any work they do, and if they don't get paid, well, they take the risk as entrepreneurs if they do it anyway, not for hire. Regardless, why is it significantly different? Do you claim that one does _not_ help another by giving them a copy of say, some record they want? And why is "against their express permission" different from what I just said, "a ...
Jul 28 10:03:57 <Zorkman> i had to remove the battery
Jul 28 10:04:02 <mjr> ... right to stop" the aforementioned transaction?
Jul 28 10:04:04 <Zorkman> (in the asu the powerbutton also didn't work)
Jul 28 10:04:28 <Fossi> bit much noise in here
Jul 28 10:04:42 <Zorkman> just like calling with the FreeRunner :p
Jul 28 10:05:24 <wibbit> mjr: can you tell me how the "each other" i.e. a mutual help between both parties, is covered by one party taking the proceed's of the other party, that parasitic not a symbiosis.
Jul 28 10:05:56 <Zorkman> now my phone hangs (boooting ASU from SD); it says "starting Xserver" and nothing happens
Jul 28 10:06:07 <Zorkman> (the cursor does blink)
Jul 28 10:06:08 <wibbit> any way, this isn't the right channel, you and I are unlikely to have a common ground on some of the fundamentals of this argument.
Jul 28 10:07:07 <ronny> yo
Jul 28 10:07:21 <ronny> after the last upgrade my moko wont boot any more, anything known about that?
Jul 28 10:07:41 <Zorkman> edistar: the powerbutton didn't work anymore in the asy, i had to shutdown "now" through ssh, when trying to boot the phone, the powerbutton also didn't work anymore, had to pull the battery out and now it just says "starting Xserver"
Jul 28 10:07:50 <ronny> (it wont even get to the kernel messags)
Jul 28 10:07:53 <Zorkman> ronny: had the samme: pull out the battery
Jul 28 10:08:10 <mjr> wibbit, I didn't claim it helped the original creator of the information in question, but another person. It was still helping. And of course, transactions such as those often _do_ help the author as well through word of mouth, but that's a different matter. I wasn't interested in the author in this case. Either the author arranges to be paid beforehand, he takes the risk as an entrepreneur, or he just does something else for a living. _Making a living in ...
Jul 28 10:08:17 <mjr> ... your preferred area of business is not a human right_, after all.
Jul 28 10:08:25 <ronny> Zorkman: doesnt fix it
Jul 28 10:09:10 <XorA> all this conversation convinces me of is I should be selling sex not software :-D
Jul 28 10:09:19 <Rigolo> ronny: did you do a opkg update/upgrade on a devel rootfs? I think the lateste 2.6.24-git25 kernel breaks at the moment
Jul 28 10:09:31 <mjr> XorA, but remember, if you sell sex, and someone rapes you, it's _theft_!
Jul 28 10:09:40 <Deubeuliou> Hi
Jul 28 10:10:14 <ronny> Rigolo: pretty much that, when will it be fixed?
Jul 28 10:10:35 <Deubeuliou> Is a new phone with better hardware specs planned to be designed soon, or will the Freerunner "last" a long time ?
Jul 28 10:10:53 <XorA> the freerunner will last a lifetime :-D
Jul 28 10:11:07 <Deubeuliou> I heard that a GTA 3 was planned :p
Jul 28 10:11:35 <Rigolo> ronny: next sucessfull kernel build? no idea really .... flash back to an older image
Jul 28 10:12:23 <ronny> Rigolo: im using a older image, opkg upgrade killed it :/
Jul 28 10:12:26 <Zorkman> hmmm my asu now stops at the booting screen...
Jul 28 10:13:03 <ronny> same issue ;P
Jul 28 10:14:20 <Zorkman> so will the only sollution be to reflash (and lose all the changes)?
Jul 28 10:14:23 <mjr> (Funny though how people don't try and call rape theft, perhaps it's because just calling rape what it is gets you taken seriously, unlike some other things.)
Jul 28 10:15:24 <XorA> mjr: amusingly in Scottish law, I think I could define that as theft of anus ;-)
Jul 28 10:15:26 <lymeca> heh
Jul 28 10:15:58 <lymeca> "Judge, he infringed my copyrights!" makes you sound a whole lot more whiny than "Judge, he STOLE from me!"
Jul 28 10:16:26 <ecraven> where can i request the addition of libraries into the toolchain?
Jul 28 10:16:32 <mjr> XorA, well, you know, scots with their kilts and their archetypical concentration on possession, maybe there you can ;)
Jul 28 10:16:37 <XorA> ecraven: devel@
Jul 28 10:16:51 <tc> Deubeuliou: I new phone is planned, but if that stops you buying a Freerunner then you'll never buy a phone - all companies constantly develop :)
Jul 28 10:16:57 * XorA avoids kilts
Jul 28 10:17:24 <mjr> XorA, that's all right, but do you wear anything under it then?
Jul 28 10:17:37 <XorA> mjr: Ive only worn hired ones so yes
Jul 28 10:17:46 <ecraven> does anyone know how i can get the toolchain to compile libXtst? ./autogen.sh ...  reports LINT does not appear in AM_CONDITIONAL
Jul 28 10:17:53 <XorA> mjr: anyway scotland also has lots of barbedwire
Jul 28 10:17:53 <mjr> XorA, I meant the kilt you're not wearing
Jul 28 10:17:57 <opendeep> I got errors while opkg update, URL: http://rafb.net/p/Y6XujJ42.html
Jul 28 10:18:09 <XorA> mjr: I hate to think when happens when that is combined with underwearless kilts
Jul 28 10:18:13 <opendeep> any hint?
Jul 28 10:18:44 <XorA> mjr: you shall have to hack my webcam for answer to that :_D
Jul 28 10:18:51 <Deubeuliou> <tc> Deubeuliou: I new phone is planned, but if that stops you buying a Freerunner then you'll never buy a phone - all companies constantly develop :)  <-- yeah, that's right :) I was looking 3's features... it still won't have the 3G, but since I'll never use that 3G.... ^^
Jul 28 10:19:19 <cesarb> Is qemu working for anyone? It is failing boot for me both with 2007.2 and with ASU
Jul 28 10:19:26 <mjr> XorA, that's a challenge, then
Jul 28 10:20:55 <Fossi> opendeep: can you wet any of those?
Jul 28 10:21:01 <lymeca> GTA03 will have EDGE I believe, but no UMTS (3G)
Jul 28 10:21:16 <mjr> lymeca, yeah that's the word on the street at least
Jul 28 10:21:29 <lymeca> Also, I believe it will have a camera.
Jul 28 10:21:35 <mjr> lymeca, yeah that's the word on the street at least
Jul 28 10:21:44 <lymeca> =P
Jul 28 10:21:54 <mjr> anyway, no _major_ upheavals for gta03 planned so buy your gta02s ;)
Jul 28 10:22:02 <Zorkman> cesarb: it's been a long time since i used it, but it worked, but only for GTA01 emulation
Jul 28 10:22:21 <wibbit> mjr: any news on whether or not that capacitor modification is goign to be included in the new batches of the gta02's?
Jul 28 10:22:58 <mjr> wibbit, I believe I saw wasit joerg say on the list that yes, but don't take my recollection for it
Jul 28 10:23:09 <wibbit> mjr: cheers
Jul 28 10:23:16 <opendeep> Fossi:what do you mean "wet"
Jul 28 10:23:18 <wibbit> mjr: probably best to wait till they are relased and check then
Jul 28 10:23:29 <Fossi> opendeep: sorry, wget
Jul 28 10:23:53 <Fossi> anybody know why crosscompiling fails: http://rafb.net/p/K0yCuR92.html ?
Jul 28 10:24:02 <cesarb> Zorkman: it's for GTA01 I want to use it... and for some reason every image I compiled recently failed on it
Jul 28 10:24:34 <XorA> Fossi: no, thats a new one
Jul 28 10:24:37 * cesarb suspects a borked uboot
Jul 28 10:25:32 <Fossi> damn
Jul 28 10:25:38 <lindi-> Deubeuliou: just buy gta02 and attach a 3G usb stick
Jul 28 10:25:55 <opendeep> Fossi:when I wget from device it gives wget: bad address 'buildhost.openmoko.org'
Jul 28 10:26:02 <Fossi> i don't want to waste my time again, i think i'll try a new mokomkaefile install
Jul 28 10:26:11 <Fossi> opendeep: so, you don't have dns configured?
Jul 28 10:26:16 * XorA only gets 3G one half of his flat
Jul 28 10:26:25 <XorA> not this half :-(
Jul 28 10:26:40 <Deubeuliou> I have one question about the GPS: is an antenna _required_ or does it only permit better reception ?
Jul 28 10:27:01 <opendeep> Fossi: I am able to ping yahoo.com and other network ip's.
Jul 28 10:27:01 <mjr> Deubeuliou, the external antenna is optional for better reception
Jul 28 10:27:11 <mjr> _an_ antenna is required, but there's an internal one...
Jul 28 10:27:40 <cesarb> Yep, borked uboot, getting the one from make download-images worked
Jul 28 10:28:18 <Deubeuliou> ok, thank you
Jul 28 10:29:48 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03tick * r4560 10/trunk/src/host/opkg-utils/ (10 files): 
Jul 28 10:29:48 <CIA-46> openmoko: opkg-util make .opk as the default file extension
Jul 28 10:29:48 <CIA-46> openmoko: "opkg-build -i ..." means creating .ipk file for backward support
Jul 28 10:30:42 <Fossi> opendeep: can you ping buildhost.openmoko.org ?
Jul 28 10:32:23 <ecraven> where can i find an ipkg for matchbox-keyboard?
Jul 28 10:32:29 <opendeep> Fossi: on device ping to ip is working but not dns name. even when i ping www.yahoo.com , it did not work.
Jul 28 10:33:15 <Zorkman> opendeep: did you change the nameserver on the FreeRunner?
Jul 28 10:34:28 <Fossi> ecraven: didn't the wiki have one?
Jul 28 10:34:31 <spydon> ecraven, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Switching_Keyboards#Matchbox_keyboard
Jul 28 10:34:35 <opendeep> Zorkman:no , it's 192.168.0.200 only
Jul 28 10:35:01 <Fossi> and that machine is running a dns server?
Jul 28 10:36:43 <Zorkman> if your host is not running a dns server you should use the same nameserver on your FreeRunner as on your host
Jul 28 10:37:18 <ecraven> what is a stroke app that works well on the FR?
Jul 28 10:37:25 <ecraven> i can't figure out all the strokes for matchbox-stroke
Jul 28 10:39:49 <swc|666> just use 208.67.222.222 as the nameserver, then /etc/init.d/networking restart
Jul 28 10:43:30 <Zorkman> anyone else except ronny not able to boot their newly updated ASU?
Jul 28 10:47:19 <Tanuva> my fso doesnt pull any updates at all...
Jul 28 10:56:05 <Varox> hi guys
Jul 28 10:57:14 <Varox> are there any news about the battery lifetime, or is it still about 24 h ?
Jul 28 10:57:44 <mjr> you can get days if you trust the suspend code...
Jul 28 10:58:25 <Varox> is it smart to trust the suspend code?
Jul 28 10:58:57 <Varox> with suspend you mean standby?
Jul 28 11:04:15 <Tanuva> its suspend - acpi s3 iirc
Jul 28 11:21:22 <Ainulindale> Still no news about the projects SVN issue ?
Jul 28 11:23:35 <Zorkman> anyone else except ronny not able to boot their newly updated ASU?
Jul 28 11:24:58 <Ainulindale> roh, mickey|zzZZzz : there's nothing you can do about the OM projects SVN ?
Jul 28 11:38:56 <Rigolo> Zorkman: I had the same issue with 2007.2 ... and that was after the kernel upgrade to git25
Jul 28 11:43:23 <niap> the current kernel upgrade fails, unfortunately after erasing the flash 
Jul 28 11:47:45 <ronny> hmm, when the heck will the fscking kernel package get fixed ?
Jul 28 11:48:03 <ronny> its in there since hours, nobody seems to care
Jul 28 11:48:38 <Rigolo> ronny: everyday a new build is done .. automatically
Jul 28 11:48:52 <Rigolo> if you want it quicker ... then build your own
Jul 28 11:49:17 <Rigolo> or use the July 22th image .. and do not upgrade your kernel 
Jul 28 11:53:48 <ronny> Rigolo: still leaving broken kernels that break the system on update in the public repos is kinda bad
Jul 28 11:54:38 <Rigolo> ronny: that is why it is a development image .. not a released image or repo
Jul 28 11:55:01 <ronny> Rigolo: it is in the opkg package repos and gets installed with opkg upgrade
Jul 28 11:56:02 <ronny> in fact, i reflashed with the older images various time just to get my device bricked after upgrade just again
Jul 28 11:56:21 <Rigolo> devel images use a different repo then release images
Jul 28 11:57:05 <HardDisk_WP> is it possible to get debian on the openmoko?
Jul 28 11:57:26 <Rigolo> looks like it ... see the wiki :-)
Jul 28 11:58:04 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03tick * r4561 10/trunk/src/host/opkg-utils/ (opkg-build opkg.py): make ipk as default opk as an option
Jul 28 11:58:23 <ronny> hmm
Jul 28 11:58:37 <anasazi> ronny and rigolo: as you seem to discuss something in that way: with my last opkg upgrade yesterday my FR (2007.02) boots the kernel, starts X, but the "please wait" screen stays there forever (however the topbar is shown correctly)
Jul 28 11:58:45 <anasazi> any idea what goes wrong here?
Jul 28 11:58:56 <ronny> time to set up an own build thing
Jul 28 11:58:59 <ronny> anasazi: no idea
Jul 28 11:59:05 <ronny> anasazi: other issue tho
Jul 28 11:59:07 <anasazi> ah and I can remotely start X applications which run fine...
Jul 28 11:59:12 <anasazi> mkay
Jul 28 11:59:13 <anasazi> :-/
Jul 28 11:59:57 <Fossi> is openmoko-today running?
Jul 28 12:00:09 <mw|> could be dbus not running
Jul 28 12:00:18 <Zorkman> anasazi: my ASU hangs also on "starting Xserver", is there any way to solve this besides reflashing?
Jul 28 12:00:21 <mw|> or openmoko-today is failing to run
Jul 28 12:00:28 <Rigolo> having the topbar running is different that the "kernel of death" upgrade :-)
Jul 28 12:00:52 <anasazi> ah
Jul 28 12:00:56 <ronny> hmm, i guess i have to figure how to run images
Jul 28 12:01:00 <anasazi> root@om-gta02:~# ps axu | grep today
Jul 28 12:01:00 <anasazi> root      1292  6.0  0.0      0     0 ?        Z    13:58   0:04 [openmoko-today] <defunct>
Jul 28 12:01:25 <anasazi> Rigolo: ok I guess I only saw the end of your discussion ;-)
Jul 28 12:01:50 <anasazi> Zorkman: I don't know :-/
Jul 28 12:01:52 <mw|> openmoko-today died...
Jul 28 12:02:31 <Rigolo> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian
Jul 28 12:03:29 <anasazi> what is openmoko-today?
Jul 28 12:03:41 <anasazi> main application or something?
Jul 28 12:04:59 <Rigolo> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Today/2007.2
Jul 28 12:05:39 <anasazi> ah thanks
Jul 28 12:06:18 <Dave> What's new, kiddies?
Jul 28 12:06:22 <anasazi> it seems the dbus daemon is not running
Jul 28 12:06:23 <anasazi> ok
Jul 28 12:06:24 <Zorkman> ASU won't start :p
Jul 28 12:07:27 <Zorkman> dbus does run here: root      1354  0.0  0.5   2112   704 ?        Ss   12:03   0:00 /usr/bin/dbus-d
Jul 28 12:07:46 <Zorkman> but today is not
Jul 28 12:08:42 <Dave> So, nothing new then :)
Jul 28 12:08:51 <Dave> ASU never worked [correctly] :P
Jul 28 12:09:02 <Zorkman> it at least booted :(
Jul 28 12:09:46 <Rigolo> Zorkman: well .. that is something then .. can you ssh back in now? maybe you can fix it then :-)
Jul 28 12:09:59 <Zorkman> im ssh'd in :)
Jul 28 12:10:01 <Dave> ASU boots you :p
Jul 28 12:10:13 <Zorkman> but i have absolutely no clue how do fix anything
Jul 28 12:10:38 <methril> Zorkman ps the process and see what is missing
Jul 28 12:10:40 <Fossi> well, then learn and try ;)
Jul 28 12:10:53 <methril> try to start and check the logs to see what happens
Jul 28 12:10:54 <Rigolo> Zorkman: how about rolling back to previous versions ?
Jul 28 12:11:24 <Zorkman> this is what ps axu gives: http://pastebin.com/m41ac0ca5
Jul 28 12:11:29 <Rigolo> Zorkman: and if you screw up ... you can always reflash :-) at least you can get anything off the phone right now that you want to keep
Jul 28 12:11:59 <Dave> :o
Jul 28 12:12:06 <quickdev> Hello
Jul 28 12:12:09 <Dave> Hallo Fossi :p
Jul 28 12:12:10 <Zorkman> llo
Jul 28 12:12:17 <Dave> What do you want, quickdev?
Jul 28 12:12:47 <quickdev> Do I have to want something? :)
Jul 28 12:13:41 <Fossi> huh. hi.
Jul 28 12:13:41 <Rigolo> no, but if yo are quickdev, can you quickly develop a stable ASU for us :-)
Jul 28 12:13:53 * Zorkman was thinking the same thing :)
Jul 28 12:14:11 <Fossi> echo "stable/ASU" > /dev/quick 
Jul 28 12:14:12 * Dave forces quickdev to create a blackberry RAD tool for him.
Jul 28 12:15:29 <quickdev> hehe
Jul 28 12:16:37 <quickdev> Is it possible to manually suspend the phone?
Jul 28 12:16:42 <Zorkman> apm -s
Jul 28 12:17:18 <Zorkman> or in the asu (when it boots): press and hold the powerkey
Jul 28 12:17:21 <bumbl> does anyone know how to resolve this? http://rafb.net/p/9cDzcq64.html
Jul 28 12:19:55 <Gnutoo> bumbl, if it does come from openembedded mabe just change the package prefered versions...do a grep in order to find the right file
Jul 28 12:20:08 <`pwgen`> bumbl: change to ./build and type : bitbake libcairo2; bitbake libpixman; bitbake ... ; bitbake package-index
Jul 28 12:20:48 <bumbl> that problem appears while opkg upgrade on asu & freerunner
Jul 28 12:20:58 <`pwgen`> if libcairo fails: search for the bb file for libcairo and build it by hand
Jul 28 12:21:18 <`pwgen`> its cause the index files are missing your dependencies
Jul 28 12:22:36 <bumbl> `pwgen`: I can't build here because the pc is too slow
Jul 28 12:23:04 <`pwgen`> hmm the you have to wait until someone fixes your upstream 
Jul 28 12:27:12 <XorA> all those files are available on buildhost
Jul 28 12:27:32 * XorA guesses you messed with you feed configs
Jul 28 12:29:25 <Fossi> bumbl: check if you have multiple feeds with incompatible versions
Jul 28 12:30:34 <Dave> Hey bumble :)
Jul 28 12:31:18 <Dave> hahaha, pesky germans.
Jul 28 12:33:35 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07artwork * rac87be596188 10/illume/ (illume.edj illume_init.edj): enable manual keyboard button
Jul 28 12:33:35 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07artwork * r5cdedae0e459 10/illume/illume.edj: unify background
Jul 28 12:33:37 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r82a7a122d16b 10/framework/subsystems/odeviced/audio.py: odeviced: first sketch at audio scenario API
Jul 28 12:33:44 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * r95033b048a0f 10/otapi/ (2 files in 2 dirs): org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call.xml.in: fix tone parameter in SendDtmf, thanks Ainulindale!
Jul 28 12:34:19 <Dave> all your amps
Jul 28 12:34:26 <bumbl> Fossi: it is a newly flashed asu image with fixed feeds (pointing at downloads.openmoko.org and not at buildhost.openmoko.org)
Jul 28 12:34:58 <bumbl> Dave: I am not german
Jul 28 12:35:41 <bumbl> I am Austrian and proud to be it
Jul 28 12:36:01 <`pwgen`> *FG*
Jul 28 12:36:28 <`pwgen`> its the old europe .... 
Jul 28 12:37:08 <Dave> haha
Jul 28 12:37:12 <Dave> same thing ;)
Jul 28 12:37:32 <Dave> speaks ze german
Jul 28 12:37:38 <bumbl> Dave: the last time austria and germany were the same thing bad things happened
Jul 28 12:37:45 <bumbl> so no it's not the same thing
Jul 28 12:37:51 <Dave> :D
Jul 28 12:37:59 <Dave> bumble, show us your Austrian pride!
Jul 28 12:38:26 <`pwgen`> hmm partly ... some germans would not subscribe , that they speak german .. *G* 
Jul 28 12:39:24 <Dave> hah
Jul 28 12:39:28 <Dave> and we care, why? :P
Jul 28 12:39:29 <`pwgen`> they exported strange leaders to germany 
Jul 28 12:41:10 <Dave> just like the danish
Jul 28 12:41:21 <Dave> No one really cares about them, except themselves :P
Jul 28 12:41:41 <Dave> Well, not to mention, as far as we are concerned, Danish is just a pastry :p
Jul 28 12:42:07 <Dave> and a Dane is a dog :)
Jul 28 12:42:35 <niap> bumbl, considering the recent happenings in your basements and your goverment the situation doesn't seem to have improved that much... ;)
Jul 28 12:43:18 <zogs> hi
Jul 28 12:43:18 <Dave> :D
Jul 28 12:43:26 <Dave> How are you, Italy?
Jul 28 12:43:37 <zogs> yes
Jul 28 12:43:49 <Tm_T> Dave: he is "yes" ;)
Jul 28 12:43:56 <`pwgen`> i will move to aaloborg in 2 months .. whats strange with danisch people ? and who did they exported ?
Jul 28 12:44:27 <Dave> :D
Jul 28 12:44:36 <Dave> haha
Jul 28 12:44:38 <Dave> lollergermans
Jul 28 12:44:39 <Zorkman> guess what: if you type "shutdown "now"" you better make sure you're typing in the terminal window that is logged in the FreeRunner
Jul 28 12:44:42 <Dave> hoooooooooi, zorkman :D
Jul 28 12:44:48 <ecraven> Zorkman: ;)
Jul 28 12:44:50 <Zorkman> llo dave
Jul 28 12:44:52 <Dave> ecraven!
Jul 28 12:44:54 <Dave> :D
Jul 28 12:45:02 <ecraven> aye, reinstalled debian ;)
Jul 28 12:45:04 <Dave> replace neod!
Jul 28 12:45:09 <bumbl> niap: yes these happenings are sad and our government consists to >90 of morons...
Jul 28 12:45:09 <Dave> begin the future!
Jul 28 12:45:19 <ecraven> Dave: i want the entire gui to be Scheme!
Jul 28 12:45:25 <zogs> i have a question , in this video http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=3z6KmWSpcPo&feature=related
Jul 28 12:45:31 <Zorkman> i reflashed the kernel of my asu to an older verison and it still won't boot, guess i will have to reflash rootfs too :(
Jul 28 12:45:43 <zogs> how run accelerometers ?
Jul 28 12:46:01 <Dave> yes -_-
Jul 28 12:46:36 <bumbl> [14:41:21] <Dave> No one really cares about them, except themselves :P   <- where is the problem?
Jul 28 12:46:39 <Dave> dwaze XD
Jul 28 12:46:50 <Dave> bumbl :D
Jul 28 12:46:52 <`pwgen`> anyone here , that knows how i can access then  suspend registers of the wm8573 ?
Jul 28 12:46:57 <SpeedEvil> zogs: see category:Accellerometers on the wiki
Jul 28 12:47:05 <Dave> -l
Jul 28 12:47:56 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:Accelerometer
Jul 28 12:48:04 <Dave> :)
Jul 28 12:48:06 <ecraven> zogs: you read from /dev/input/event2 and event3
Jul 28 12:48:15 <ecraven> that gives you the x/y/z values
Jul 28 12:48:18 <Dave> category:Speedevil :)
Jul 28 12:48:29 <ecraven> however, that will not work on 2007.2, because neod is broken
Jul 28 12:48:31 <Fossi> zogs: cool vid
Jul 28 12:48:51 <zogs> but on my neo don't run , do I need any packages ?
Jul 28 12:49:26 <Fossi> zogs: it won't switch the monitor
Jul 28 12:49:42 <bumbl> [14:39:28] <`pwgen`> they exported strange leaders to germany <- we export strange leaders to germany: a lot of Austrians are top managers at German companies
Jul 28 12:49:43 <Fossi> zogs: but you can read /dev/input/event3 (i think)
Jul 28 12:49:50 <Dave> neod is broken
Jul 28 12:50:00 <Dave> I believe that to be an understatement, ecraven :P
Jul 28 12:50:32 <ecraven> it's easy to implement the automatic switching, the problem is that glamo is broken too, so the touchscreen won't work correctly in left/right
Jul 28 12:50:34 <Fossi> Dave: oh, right
Jul 28 12:50:48 <Fossi> Dave: it worked a few days ago :)
Jul 28 12:50:54 <Zorkman> someone on the mailinglists does not have the wrong offset problem in landscape
Jul 28 12:51:04 <`pwgen`> bumbl: *G* .. ah thats why we have so much jobless people *G*
Jul 28 12:51:13 <Zorkman> fossi did it work on your FreeRunner?
Jul 28 12:51:29 <Fossi> Zorkman: what? landscape?
Jul 28 12:51:43 <Fossi> or accelerometers?
Jul 28 12:51:50 <Zorkman> landscape mode
Jul 28 12:51:56 <Fossi> not really
Jul 28 12:51:58 <Zorkman> i always get a wrong offset from the touchscreen
Jul 28 12:52:04 <Fossi> yes
Jul 28 12:52:40 <Zorkman> Fossi: take a look at this: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2008-July/000379.html
Jul 28 12:53:14 <Dave> ecraven -_-;
Jul 28 12:53:26 <Fossi> Zorkman: so?
Jul 28 12:53:37 <Dave> It's my understanding that the freerunner is unfortunately nothing more than an abysmal failure.
Jul 28 12:53:53 <Zorkman> he doesn't have that problem with a lot of images he used... how can that be?
Jul 28 12:54:48 <Dave> Oh, and Speedevil, where did you procure those protectors from?
Jul 28 12:55:33 <ecraven> hm.. that's strange
Jul 28 12:55:45 <ecraven> Dave: the software, the hardware seems decent enough.. and software will be written sooner or later
Jul 28 12:55:47 <Dave> It's a mystery!
Jul 28 12:55:54 <Dave> It's all terrible.
Jul 28 12:56:03 <Fossi> Zorkman: what do i know? ;D
Jul 28 12:56:08 <Dave> Man
Jul 28 12:56:12 <Zorkman> more than me about linux ;)
Jul 28 12:56:16 <Dave> i'm about to install zork on my freerunner
Jul 28 12:56:21 <Dave> not you, zorkman.
Jul 28 12:58:25 <zogs> which image (distribution) is better for neo ? ScaredyCat , FSO, qtopia or other
Jul 28 12:58:34 <Dave> heh
Jul 28 12:58:38 <Dave> It's flavor
Jul 28 12:58:46 <Dave> opinion based, at this point
Jul 28 12:58:51 <ecraven> debian ;-p
Jul 28 12:58:54 <Dave> and how daring one might be
Jul 28 12:58:56 <Dave> ecraven :D
Jul 28 12:58:59 * Dave high-fives ecraven
Jul 28 12:59:18 <Dave> ecraven, but isn't it broken still?
Jul 28 12:59:25 <ecraven> broken in what way?
Jul 28 12:59:29 <Dave> What things work?
Jul 28 12:59:36 <Dave> What things are you struggling with ?
Jul 28 12:59:49 <ecraven> everything works, except landscape mode
Jul 28 12:59:55 <pjz> does debian even have gsmd ?
Jul 28 12:59:56 <ecraven> sound works, gps works, accels work
Jul 28 12:59:58 <ecraven> yes
Jul 28 13:00:04 <pjz> what do you use for a dialer?
Jul 28 13:00:04 <ecraven> but we'll have ogsmd soon, right?
Jul 28 13:00:09 <ecraven> nothing, i don't use gsm so far
Jul 28 13:00:20 <ecraven> i don't like the interface at all, i'm looking for something scheme or python to switch to
Jul 28 13:00:29 <Dave> ogsmd? :o
Jul 28 13:00:36 <Zorkman> ecraven: very stupid question: but what is the pro of using debian? (i'm new to everything, remember? :))
Jul 28 13:00:42 <Dave> Ecraven, can I play Net on it?
Jul 28 13:00:52 <Dave> That's totally a dealbreaker.
Jul 28 13:00:53 <Dave> ;p
Jul 28 13:01:00 <ecraven> Net?
Jul 28 13:01:01 * Dave grins at nuclear_eclipse
Jul 28 13:01:04 <Dave> YES
Jul 28 13:01:09 <Dave> The GTK application. :P
Jul 28 13:01:24 <ecraven> Zorkman: imho, it's a working distribution, i understand it. it has *many* more packages than angström
Jul 28 13:01:53 <ecraven> i don't understand why it wasn't used as a base from the start
Jul 28 13:02:21 <Rigolo> ecraven: maybe the default size? 
Jul 28 13:02:32 <Dave> ecraven, yeah :(
Jul 28 13:02:37 <Dave> Rigolo: doubtful
Jul 28 13:02:40 <Dave> It's tiny as hell
Jul 28 13:02:45 <Dave> Or can easily be made to be
Jul 28 13:02:48 <Dave> see: netinstall
Jul 28 13:03:00 <Dave> speaking of which, hot damn, I should try a netinstall on the freerunner :D
Jul 28 13:03:08 <Rigolo> there you have it ... can be made to be ... well the same is true of everything
Jul 28 13:03:13 <XorA> because debian arm was in a bad state when OM started
Jul 28 13:03:18 <Dave> Indeed
Jul 28 13:03:22 <ecraven> Rigolo: default size?
Jul 28 13:03:24 <Dave> xora, sssh :P
Jul 28 13:03:30 <ecraven> oh, debian can be as small as you want ;)
Jul 28 13:03:35 <Dave> right :D
Jul 28 13:03:38 <Rigolo> who knows .. maybe i will just build openwrt for the FR .. and then I can use it as a mobile wireless AP :-)
Jul 28 13:03:46 <Dave> hahaha
Jul 28 13:03:52 <Dave> I think that's already been tried
Jul 28 13:03:54 <XorA> Rigolo: wifi doesnt support AP mode
Jul 28 13:03:56 <Dave> right
Jul 28 13:04:04 <Rigolo> XorA: not ... mmm bummer
Jul 28 13:04:10 <Dave> and you can't setup the usb to do it comfortably
Jul 28 13:04:13 <ecraven> can anyone explain to me what is responsible for the calibration problem in landscape mode? glamo? tslib?
Jul 28 13:04:23 <Dave> everything?
Jul 28 13:04:26 <Rigolo> well then an adhoc wireless network then ...
Jul 28 13:04:26 <Dave> it's terrible, isn't it?
Jul 28 13:04:31 <Dave> shit goes off the scren
Jul 28 13:04:34 <Dave> screen
Jul 28 13:04:35 <XorA> echarp: probably Xorg
Jul 28 13:04:41 <Dave> you click and it's like an inch to the left
Jul 28 13:04:41 <XorA> ecraven: probably Xorg
Jul 28 13:04:53 <Dave> Xwhored.
Jul 28 13:04:54 <XorA> tslib doesnt care about rotation
Jul 28 13:05:03 <XorA> kernel doesnt care about rotation
Jul 28 13:05:10 <ecraven> so it's a bug in Xglamo?
Jul 28 13:05:13 <Dave> kernel is soft and crunchy.
Jul 28 13:05:20 <XorA> ecraven: is my guess
Jul 28 13:05:23 <ecraven> is any work going on on Xglamo?
Jul 28 13:05:23 <Dave> ecraven, that doesn't even make sense.
Jul 28 13:05:40 <ecraven> Dave: what doesn't?
Jul 28 13:05:49 <Dave> glamo glamo glamo
Jul 28 13:05:56 <XorA> I also noticed that the E apps dont redraw right either when rotated, maybe the X/Y sizes are getting bolloxed
Jul 28 13:05:59 <Dave> are they still developing it?
Jul 28 13:06:03 <Dave> or is it closed now :[
Jul 28 13:06:15 <XorA> Dave: its in public git, go develop :_)
Jul 28 13:06:23 <Dave> no no
Jul 28 13:06:27 <Dave> didn't they give it up?
Jul 28 13:06:31 <ecraven> XorA: i'd have a look, but last time i looked i didn't find it ;(
Jul 28 13:06:34 <Dave> so why continue down the path of destruction
Jul 28 13:06:40 <Dave> when you can just moveall your zigs
Jul 28 13:06:43 <XorA> Dave: the developer no longer works for OpenHand
Jul 28 13:06:45 <Dave> or something like that *rolls eyes*
Jul 28 13:06:48 <Dave> :O
Jul 28 13:06:50 <Dave> what
Jul 28 13:06:55 <Dave> did he shoot his wife, too? :P
Jul 28 13:07:00 <Dave> oh great -_-
Jul 28 13:08:09 <Dave> bumbles.
Jul 28 13:09:00 <Dave> ecraven, well, I'm heading out, please fix everything while I'm gone :)
Jul 28 13:12:23 <ecraven> why doesn't   git clone git://git.openmoko.org/xglamo  work?
Jul 28 13:12:33 <ecraven> fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly
Jul 28 13:12:51 <Zorkman> how come there are no new jjfs2 files since 20080722?
Jul 28 13:13:03 <Dave> even the repo is broken XD
Jul 28 13:13:08 <Rigolo> well ... then something breaks the autobuild
Jul 28 13:13:15 <Dave> 0xDEADCODE
Jul 28 13:13:27 <Dave> oy, more austrians ~_~
Jul 28 13:13:29 <ecraven> no O :)
Jul 28 13:22:02 <bumbl> Dave: we are everywhere
Jul 28 13:24:24 <ecraven> indeed ;)
Jul 28 13:27:02 <ecraven> hm.. how can bash tell me ./xcalibrate: No such file or directory, if that file is clearly there, and has the right permissions, and "file" tells me its executable
Jul 28 13:27:51 <ecraven> ah, for gnu/linux 2.2.0.. that's old ;/
Jul 28 13:28:45 <Zorkman> i'm still a bit confused about this; does *anyone*  hava a working exposure?
Jul 28 13:29:30 <bumbl> Zorkman: at the moment no, but on the mailinglist someone (i think zecke) posted that it should work again on tuesday
Jul 28 13:29:47 <Zorkman> thanks, i must have missed that message
Jul 28 13:30:06 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: ping 
Jul 28 13:32:09 <donomo> anyone know where the ringtone file is in FSO?
Jul 28 13:32:27 <donomo> find for *.mp3|wav|ogg turns up empty
Jul 28 13:32:38 <XorA> its a SID file I think
Jul 28 13:33:45 <zogs> scaredycat is good ?
Jul 28 13:34:09 <donomo> XorA: thx. i found /usr/share/sounds/Arkanoid_PSID.sid
Jul 28 13:34:51 <donomo> Arkanoid_PSID.sid: PlaySID v2.2+ (AMIGA) sidtune w/ header v2
Jul 28 13:34:54 <donomo> lol. amiga.
Jul 28 13:35:16 <`pwgen`> donomo : its from the high volatage sid colletion ..
Jul 28 13:35:20 <ecraven> hm.. if i run xrandr -o left && ts_calibrate, the output is entirely broken, has anyone tried this?
Jul 28 13:35:38 <donomo> `pwgen`: hmm. ive never dealt with sid before. the default ringtone is awful.
Jul 28 13:37:05 <`pwgen`> donomo : i like it . but you can select yout own sid soundfile ( google high voltage sid colletion ) . they are very small sound I( sid) files
Jul 28 13:38:04 <AntonTakk> `pwgen`: fso still only has basic phone call capability, right?
Jul 28 13:38:50 <AntonTakk> at least, w/o modification
Jul 28 13:39:00 <`pwgen`> AntonTakk: there is a fully funtional dbus api 
Jul 28 13:39:10 <AntonTakk> hrm
Jul 28 13:39:31 <`pwgen`> AntonTakk:  but the gui is only capable of doing and receiving calls, no phonebook/sms and so on
Jul 28 13:39:44 <AntonTakk> that's just a tad more kung-fu that i'm willing to do to use my phone  :)
Jul 28 13:40:29 <`pwgen`> by the way, i use fso beause i can set my gta01 in sleep/resume mode without rebooting it
Jul 28 13:40:42 <mmaestri> is suspend/resume also broken in FSO?
Jul 28 13:41:28 <Zorkman> i just reflashed my ASU (latest kernel ,latest rootfs from 0722) do i have to change my oipkg folder?
Jul 28 13:41:29 <`pwgen`> i think no. it depends on the kernel revision, if the apm is working there.
Jul 28 13:42:48 <mmaestri> on 2007.2 it seems to work, but sound is gone after resume. don't know if something else is failing after resume
Jul 28 13:43:25 <AntonTakk> Zorkman: how is that asu daily working for you?
Jul 28 13:43:36 <donomo> im not sure what qualifies as suspend/resume, but my FR runnning FSO milestone1 turns off the screen after a minute and a touch will turn it back on.
Jul 28 13:43:50 <mmaestri> i've been on 2007.2, ASU, then again on 2007.2 because of ASU being so slow
Jul 28 13:44:16 <mmaestri> I've tried the qtopia image as well, it seems to work fine
Jul 28 13:44:17 <donomo> ASU was slower than 2007.2? shudders. i left for FSO because its faster
Jul 28 13:44:49 <Zorkman> AntonTakk: what do you mean? with the asu-daily it updates a few things, but i remembered reading on the mailiglists i had to change the files in /etc/opkg
Jul 28 13:44:50 <AntonTakk> mmaestri: i had to many anoying glitches with qtopia, but it's speed was nice
Jul 28 13:45:01 * Rigolo tried ASU also ... and I'm still waiting for one app to close ... (that was 3 days ago .. but I might exaturate a bit)
Jul 28 13:45:39 <mmaestri> AntonTakk: it worked for me, but also it drained the battery very fast
Jul 28 13:46:25 <AntonTakk> mmaestri: i just flashed it a couple days ago, they had a kernel with working suspend/resume, so the battery life was ok
Jul 28 13:47:30 <donomo> is any image able to get more than a day of battery life? i get about 8 hours with 2007.2. i havent had FSO installed long enough to know if there is improvement there
Jul 28 13:48:34 <AntonTakk> donomo: iirc, the shipped 2007.2 image was supposed to have been tested at 100 hrs on standby
Jul 28 13:48:50 <ecraven> are we switching to kdrive instead of Xglamo?
Jul 28 13:49:03 <donomo> AntonTakk: zomg. i would like to have that kind of battery life
Jul 28 13:49:59 <AntonTakk> ecraven: know any benefits/etc of kdrive over xglamo?
Jul 28 13:55:39 <AntonTakk> if fso just had contacts - even basic name/phone number stuff i'd seriously consider making the switch
Jul 28 13:56:02 <bandersnatch> test
Jul 28 13:56:04 <AntonTakk> or, for that matter, if the dialer could look at on-sim contacts
Jul 28 13:56:42 <bandersnatch> Hi, do i get shot when i ask some openmoko svn question here?
Jul 28 13:56:47 <bumbl> AntonTakk: it has in current svn builds *if I remembered it correctly*
Jul 28 13:56:54 <AntonTakk> hrm
Jul 28 13:57:12 <`pwgen`> we need someone who writes a dfso gui or do some plans to replace the gsmd with the fso dbus daemons 
Jul 28 13:57:15 <Zorkman> i can't opkg install nano anymore :s
Jul 28 13:57:18 <Zorkman> i get: 
Jul 28 13:57:18 <Zorkman> opkg install nano
Jul 28 13:57:18 <Zorkman> Collected errors:
Jul 28 13:57:18 <Zorkman>  * Packages were found, but none compatible with the architectures configured
Jul 28 13:57:22 <AntonTakk> bumbl: makes me want to try flashing it to my phone while here at work  :)
Jul 28 13:57:41 <balrog-k1n> xglamo is kdrive actually
Jul 28 13:58:11 <donomo> is there a sidplay or similar for the FR?
Jul 28 13:58:33 <AntonTakk> bumbl: happen to know how stable fso nightlies have been lately?
Jul 28 13:58:34 <balrog-k1n> with Xrandr, EXA, Xaa, xvideo and other extensions implemented
Jul 28 13:58:45 <balrog-k1n> othwrwise it's just kdrive
Jul 28 13:59:12 <bumbl> AntonTakk: http://www.opendylan.org/~andreas/om/ <- this has been posted a few minutes ago at a german openmoko channel
Jul 28 13:59:13 <zogs> wich email client for openmoko ? 
Jul 28 13:59:22 <bumbl> downloading at the moment
Jul 28 13:59:26 <AntonTakk> bumbl: thanks  :)
Jul 28 14:00:48 <AntonTakk> me too
Jul 28 14:01:04 <AntonTakk> 8mbit net connection at work++  ;)
Jul 28 14:01:16 <Zorkman> can anyone point me to correctly configure files that belong in the opkg folder?
Jul 28 14:01:47 <Zorkman> http://www.mikeasoft.com/~mike/opkg-asu.tar.gz does not seem to work
Jul 28 14:01:57 <AntonTakk> Zorkman: i don't have a link, but i could swear i saw info on that in either the community or support list
Jul 28 14:02:24 <Zorkman> yeah, thas is the link i pasted, but i get  * Packages were found, but none compatible with the architectures configured
Jul 28 14:02:40 <Zorkman> he also always assumed locally installed apps are up to date
Jul 28 14:04:02 <ecraven> AntonTakk: i just read about kdrive for the first time, but Xglamo seems to work not too well.. so maybe kdrive is an alternative?
Jul 28 14:04:25 <ecraven> balrog-k1n: ah, ok
Jul 28 14:04:32 <ecraven> AntonTakk: so it seems my question was wrong ;)
Jul 28 14:04:56 <ecraven> anyway, as long as we don't even have a working X server, things look rather bleak ;(
Jul 28 14:05:54 <balrog-k1n> ecraven: where is it not working? (sorry, just woke up) :p
Jul 28 14:05:57 <Fossi> the temperature footprint of the arm is pretty small
Jul 28 14:06:13 <Fossi> my core2duo is glowing and the cellphone is barely warm
Jul 28 14:06:16 <AntonTakk> ecraven: what do you mean no working x server? 2007.1, asu, and fso all use x
Jul 28 14:06:16 <ecraven> balrog-k1n: after xrandr -o left the touchscreen is shifted
Jul 28 14:06:32 <ecraven> the X server still believes the screen is higher than wide
Jul 28 14:06:34 <balrog-k1n> ecraven: oh, yeah :/
Jul 28 14:06:41 <AntonTakk> oh, that
Jul 28 14:06:43 <ecraven> this renders landscape mode useless
Jul 28 14:06:46 <ecraven> -> no working X server
Jul 28 14:06:52 <AntonTakk> no
Jul 28 14:06:56 <ecraven> scummvm only works in landscape, for example
Jul 28 14:07:02 <AntonTakk> no properly working randr rotation  :)
Jul 28 14:07:10 <ecraven> AntonTakk: yes, but i'd say that is *basic* ;)
Jul 28 14:07:11 * AntonTakk puts on the pedantic hat
Jul 28 14:07:25 <Fossi> yeah. it's a little annoying :)
Jul 28 14:07:30 <ecraven> not just a little ;)
Jul 28 14:07:34 <AntonTakk> hehe
Jul 28 14:07:41 <AntonTakk> i have to agree
Jul 28 14:07:42 <balrog-k1n> you could modify every application to draw all its UI vertically :)
Jul 28 14:07:43 <Fossi> btw, if you put the cursor in the upper right corner in scummvm, it recenters
Jul 28 14:08:07 <Fossi> then it's only barely off
Jul 28 14:08:11 <ecraven> Fossi: because of the landscape bug, i can't *reach* the upper right corner
Jul 28 14:08:25 <Fossi> let me try
Jul 28 14:09:15 <Fossi> my X is too slow, i'm compiling erlang n the phone ;D
Jul 28 14:10:22 <ecraven> ;) if you ever find out how to crosscompile successfully, please tell me
Jul 28 14:10:43 <Fossi> i'm rebuilding my mokomakefile setup atm
Jul 28 14:11:16 <ecraven> i've never found out how to use mokomakefile to build existing projects without writing tons of config files myself
Jul 28 14:12:58 <Zorkman> ecraven: thre was someoneon the mailinlists where landscape mode worked just fine, he even posted a movie
Jul 28 14:13:10 <Fossi> ecraven: okay, i behaves a little funny:
Jul 28 14:13:13 <`pwgen`> a naughty question: is the asu image the same as the openmoko-devel-image , the gtk based image ?
Jul 28 14:13:28 <Fossi> if you move the cursor to the upper right corner, it will jump.
Jul 28 14:13:31 <ecraven> Zorkman: yes, but that doesn't help me ;(
Jul 28 14:13:39 <Fossi> then it's almost correct for the right side of the screen
Jul 28 14:13:50 <Fossi> (or 640px)
Jul 28 14:13:59 <Zorkman> ecraven: but it gives a little bit of hope :)
Jul 28 14:14:02 <Rigolo> pwgen: nope .. diferent
Jul 28 14:14:06 <Fossi> if you go too much left, it'll jump back lef
Jul 28 14:14:23 <`pwgen`> Rigolo: how is the bb file named ?
Jul 28 14:14:40 <XorA> Zorkman: GTA01 or GTA02
Jul 28 14:14:47 <`pwgen`> gta01
Jul 28 14:14:47 <ecraven> Zorkman: it makes it sound like a hardware bug ;-/
Jul 28 14:15:11 <Zorkman> :) don't believe that one :p
Jul 28 14:15:13 <Rigolo> pwgen: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions  ... so openmoko-qtopia-X11
Jul 28 14:16:14 * balrog-k1n just finished watching the movie :)
Jul 28 14:18:04 <AntonTakk> hrm
Jul 28 14:19:05 <`pwgen`> Rigolo: ahh , its the qt based image ... now i understand
Jul 28 14:21:51 <FacelessJ> Hey, anyone have any idea when the GSM 900 is expected to go up?
Jul 28 14:22:36 <bumbl> FacelessJ: the european distributors get their second batch on the 15.
Jul 28 14:23:03 <phrozen77> hopefully
Jul 28 14:23:26 <FacelessJ> So, the online store isn't going to sell them?
Jul 28 14:24:02 <ecraven> ;) i like my new matchbox theme with a close button and next/previous buttons a lot more than the normal one
Jul 28 14:24:46 <Zorkman> "opkg install nano" quits and returns error value:2   anybody any idea?
Jul 28 14:27:39 <ecraven> do you have an internet connection from the neo? is there really a package called "nano"?
Jul 28 14:28:50 <Tm_T> hmh
Jul 28 14:28:54 <Tm_T> awaynicks, rrrrrh
Jul 28 14:29:13 <AntonTakk> flashing that fso image  :)
Jul 28 14:29:15 <Zorkman> ecraven: it worked with my previous asu image...
Jul 28 14:29:19 <opendeep> in etc/profile "`id -u`" -eq 0, what is id here?
Jul 28 14:29:37 <phrozen77> a command
Jul 28 14:30:00 <ecraven> Zorkman: try pinging www.google.com from your neo
Jul 28 14:30:09 <ecraven> maybe the asu has different repositories?
Jul 28 14:30:23 <Zorkman> i can ping
Jul 28 14:30:28 <Zorkman> i have an active internet connection on my neo
Jul 28 14:30:39 <Zorkman> (last time i also installed in on the asu...)
Jul 28 14:30:58 <FacelessJ> Does anyone have any idea when the openmoko store will have the gsm 900 up?
Jul 28 14:35:50 <ecraven> Zorkman: what are you on now? 2007.2?
Jul 28 14:36:26 <FacelessJ> http://www.idasystems.net/ <-- If not, does anyone know if this is the official model, or have they changed it like the Koolu with the Works Everywhere?
Jul 28 14:36:59 <Zorkman> ecraven: the aSU
Jul 28 14:38:50 <AntonTakk> ecraven: nice! this fso image looks sweet, hope it works well  :)
Jul 28 14:40:16 <swc|666> what are the cavaets?
Jul 28 14:40:49 <Sargun_screen> http://www.zeromq.org/whitepapers:y-suite
Jul 28 14:40:52 <Sargun_screen> Neat.
Jul 28 14:47:40 <bandersnatch> anybody have experience with uploading content to svn.projects.openmoko.org?
Jul 28 14:48:00 <bandersnatch> authentication seems to be ok but then the svn op just hangs there.
Jul 28 14:50:01 <Ainulindale> bandersnatch: svn is down
Jul 28 14:50:51 <FacelessJ> The freerunner goes for US$399 from the official website, yeah? I'm definitely waiting for them to put their stock up, all the other distributors were US$500+
Jul 28 14:53:24 <bandersnatch> Thanks, that explains a lot. any change in sight?
Jul 28 14:53:56 <mickeyl> `pwgen`: pong
Jul 28 14:54:31 <`pwgen`> mikeyl: moin
Jul 28 14:54:51 <Dave> ecraven, I return.
Jul 28 14:54:57 <Dave> What news do you have for me?
Jul 28 14:56:08 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: i have seen the SHR project.. its exactly what i am looking for, anyone working on an shr-image.bb ? 
Jul 28 14:56:22 <Ainulindale> `pwgen`: not at the moment
Jul 28 14:56:27 <Ainulindale> `pwgen`: right now we're working on dialer3
Jul 28 14:56:34 <Zorkman> can't upgrade my ASU further, could anyone take a look?: http://pastebin.com/m152d1763
Jul 28 14:56:46 <mickeyl> `pwgen`: please join #openmoko-cdev. there goes the action
Jul 28 14:56:54 <Ainulindale> cdevel
Jul 28 14:57:06 <Ainulindale> `pwgen`: we have been slowed down by the svn server problems
Jul 28 14:57:26 <opendeep> when installing opkg install opkg-utils, got An error ocurred, return value: 2.
Jul 28 14:58:51 <mickeyl> this goes for all developers btw.
Jul 28 14:59:02 <mickeyl> perhaps we need to issue that to the mailing list
Jul 28 15:00:10 <opendeep> Is it because of no space on device?
Jul 28 15:00:12 <bumbl_> Zorkman: reproduceable
Jul 28 15:00:23 <bumbl_> i have the same problems
Jul 28 15:00:29 <FacelessJ> So noone has any idea about the openmoko store?
Jul 28 15:00:55 <bumbl_> you can resolve the first one with opkg remove -force-depends efreet
Jul 28 15:01:33 <Zorkman> i just don't seem to understand the problems today...
Jul 28 15:01:41 <Zorkman> i reflashed and now almost nothing works anymore
Jul 28 15:01:47 <Zorkman> scummvm also doesn't want to start
Jul 28 15:02:03 <Zorkman> Can't open display 
Jul 28 15:02:04 <Zorkman> /usr/bin/openmoko-scummvm: line 10: scummvm: not found
Jul 28 15:02:27 <bumbl_> asu is completly messed up at the moment
Jul 28 15:03:07 <Zorkman> yeah seems like it...
Jul 28 15:03:28 <Zorkman> bumbl: http://pastebin.com/m30e27038
Jul 28 15:03:48 <Zorkman> i have not created or modifield applications.menu, should i overwrite it or keep it?
Jul 28 15:05:27 <bumbl_> Zorkman: i would overwrite it
Jul 28 15:05:47 <bumbl_> but when you do you get strange things like xmms, firefox,... displayed
Jul 28 15:05:57 <bumbl_> but the fail to start with an enlightenment error
Jul 28 15:06:13 <Zorkman> i still have the libcairo2 and libpixmap etc errors....
Jul 28 15:06:48 <ecraven> Zorkman: if you ever get cairo working, please tell me how.. it seems libcairo doesn't support 16 bit depth, and we only have that
Jul 28 15:07:20 <Zorkman> ecraven: so yuou also get that error?
Jul 28 15:07:35 <Zorkman> i can't update the task-openmoko-qtopia-x11...
Jul 28 15:07:38 <bumbl_> Zorkman: me too
Jul 28 15:07:41 <ecraven> no, i only noticed that cairo doesn't work
Jul 28 15:07:50 <bumbl_> i will flash om 2007.2 again
Jul 28 15:07:52 <ecraven> i haven't tried the qtopia image for a few weeks
Jul 28 15:07:58 <Zorkman> ok, in that case i will just wait and see what happens tomorrow :)
Jul 28 15:09:26 <ecraven> hm.. can i convert a dynamically linked executable into a statically linked one?
Jul 28 15:09:52 <lindi-> ecraven: why would you want to do that?
Jul 28 15:10:26 <ecraven> i have a funny game i'd like others to try, but it needs libchicken, which needs libpcre, ...
Jul 28 15:10:35 <linuxxr> in debian is the gui command "startx"?
Jul 28 15:10:39 <ecraven> so i'd have to somehow make it install all those libraries
Jul 28 15:10:40 <lindi-> ecraven: just copy those libraries to .
Jul 28 15:10:45 <lindi-> ecraven: then LD_LIBRARY_PATH=.
Jul 28 15:10:53 <ecraven> linuxxr: yes, but use "startx -- vt1"
Jul 28 15:10:58 <linuxxr> ok
Jul 28 15:11:00 <ecraven> lindi-: ok, i thought that might work
Jul 28 15:11:23 <lindi-> ecraven: i have a shell script to create tarballs with all dependencies
Jul 28 15:11:26 <lindi-> somewhere
Jul 28 15:11:50 <linuxxr> command not found
Jul 28 15:11:54 <linuxxr> k
Jul 28 15:11:55 <Zorkman> ecraven: if you need testers, i'll try to help if i can
Jul 28 15:13:13 <ecraven> would anyone try? http://eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at/tmp/ball-game.tar
Jul 28 15:13:16 <ecraven> just run start.sh
Jul 28 15:13:29 <ecraven> on a neo, it includes binaries for arm
Jul 28 15:13:39 <ecraven> needs DISPLAY set as well
Jul 28 15:13:47 <Rigolo> what do you guys use as an IM app on the FR? is there a libpurple capable app out there?
Jul 28 15:13:52 <ecraven> has no error reporting at all ;) will probably segfault if anything isn't correct
Jul 28 15:14:14 <Zorkman> what do i have to do ecraven?
Jul 28 15:14:34 <ecraven> get the tarball, copy it to the neo, untar it, run start.sh
Jul 28 15:14:46 <ecraven> if you do it via ssh, run DISPLAY=:0 ./start.sh
Jul 28 15:14:59 <ecraven> (and i forgot to actually make start.sh executable, chmod +x start.sh  should help)
Jul 28 15:19:18 <yoyo_> hi
Jul 28 15:20:33 <yoyo_> what app is responsible for putting moko in lock mode and dimming a display ?
Jul 28 15:20:42 <bumbl_> ecraven: what is this app?
Jul 28 15:21:08 <yoyo_> bumbl: application
Jul 28 15:21:13 <ecraven> bumbl_: a game ;)
Jul 28 15:21:17 <ecraven> i'm trying to get a screenshot
Jul 28 15:23:16 <ecraven> what command line tool will give me a screenshot of the entire display?
Jul 28 15:23:59 <yoyo_> ecraven: gpe-scap
Jul 28 15:24:14 <ecraven> i don't have gpe on debian, i think
Jul 28 15:24:27 <Rigolo> ecraven: real diehards make a dump of the video ram with cat :-)
Jul 28 15:24:38 <yoyo_> ecravan: cat /dev/fb0 > /tmp/myScreen
Jul 28 15:24:52 <Zorkman> ecraven: i get an error
Jul 28 15:24:57 <Rigolo> see /// yoyo_  is a diehard :-)
Jul 28 15:25:24 <Zorkman> http://pastebin.com/d42fb5503
Jul 28 15:27:38 <bumbl_> zorkman you have to install sdl
Jul 28 15:27:49 <bumbl_> try opkg list | grep sdl
Jul 28 15:27:56 <ecraven> a second
Jul 28 15:28:04 <bumbl_> to find what package you need
Jul 28 15:28:16 <ecraven> it's probably not sdl but *chicken* sdl that's missing
Jul 28 15:28:49 <Zorkman> huh, there are super nintendo emulators available for the freerunner???
Jul 28 15:29:05 <Zorkman> is it libsdl that i need?
Jul 28 15:29:36 <xmpp> a DS emulator would be more appropriate with the touchscreen
Jul 28 15:29:49 <ecraven> yes, you'll need that too, but you'll also need chicken's sdl.so i'll upload a new tarball
Jul 28 15:30:29 <bumbl_> ecraven: are you professor, student or employee at the university of linz
Jul 28 15:30:38 <Zorkman> ok, there are 4libsdl's: 1.2-0, gfx, image-1.2-0, mixer and net, just tell me what to install :)   
Jul 28 15:30:43 <ecraven> assistant ;)
Jul 28 15:31:07 <ecraven> all of them ;)
Jul 28 15:31:15 <bumbl> ah ok
Jul 28 15:31:17 <ecraven> http://eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at/tmp/ballgame.tar
Jul 28 15:31:34 <ecraven> though that's probably not the correct english word
Jul 28 15:32:42 <ecraven> how do i open a framebuffer-dump in gimp?
Jul 28 15:33:17 <yoyo_> mercy
Jul 28 15:34:03 <bumbl> ecraven: when will your new content management system @swe go online?
Jul 28 15:34:42 <ecraven> will be some time, we've decided to implement it in asp.net, which doesn't really speed things up...
Jul 28 15:34:54 <Chox> moo
Jul 28 15:37:07 <Zorkman> ecraven: i installed 4 libsdl files and still get an eroor: 
Jul 28 15:37:13 <Zorkman> Error: (load) unable to load compiled module
Jul 28 15:37:14 <Zorkman> "./sdl.so"
Jul 28 15:37:14 <Zorkman> "libSDL_ttf-2.0.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory"
Jul 28 15:37:14 <Zorkman> 	Call history:
Jul 28 15:37:14 <Zorkman> 	ball-game.scm: 1    require		
Jul 28 15:37:14 <Zorkman> 	ball-game.scm: 2    require			<--
Jul 28 15:37:28 <ecraven> there should be a libsdl-ttf1.2 too
Jul 28 15:38:02 <ecraven> http://eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at/tmp/ballgame.png
Jul 28 15:38:14 <ecraven> ignore the cluttered panel, i need to play around with that some more
Jul 28 15:38:21 <bumbl> The requested URL /tmp/ballgame.png was not found on this server.
Jul 28 15:38:33 <Zorkman> same here
Jul 28 15:38:47 <ecraven> my fault
Jul 28 15:38:52 <ecraven> now ;)
Jul 28 15:38:59 <Zorkman> ecraven: 
Jul 28 15:38:59 <Zorkman> root@om-gta02:~/ballgame# opkg install libsdl-ttf1.2
Jul 28 15:38:59 <Zorkman> An error ocurred, return value: 2.
Jul 28 15:39:15 <ecraven> in debian it's called libsdl-ttf2.0-0
Jul 28 15:39:20 <ecraven> try opkg list | grep sdl-ttf
Jul 28 15:39:39 <Zorkman> i get no results...
Jul 28 15:39:46 <ecraven> then we have a problem ;)
Jul 28 15:39:56 <Zorkman> glad to be of help :p
Jul 28 15:40:00 <ecraven> a second, i'll try to include that in the tarball too ;)
Jul 28 15:40:14 <bumbl> ecraven: how useable is debian on the freerunner?
Jul 28 15:40:25 <ecraven> depends on what you want to do ;)
Jul 28 15:40:26 <Chox> heh
Jul 28 15:40:30 <Dave> CHOX
Jul 28 15:40:38 <Chox> it's full Debian, what do you want ;-)
Jul 28 15:40:40 <ecraven> i'd say about as usable as any other thing, (i.e. not useable)
Jul 28 15:40:46 <Chox> only thing is, it's really too big for 512MB SD card
Jul 28 15:40:48 <Chox> D!
Jul 28 15:40:48 <ecraven> you can add whatever apps you want
Jul 28 15:40:53 <ecraven> yes, i have a 4gb card
Jul 28 15:40:59 <Chox> good.
Jul 28 15:41:02 <ecraven> especially with gcc and development libs, it gets big
Jul 28 15:41:05 * Chox is working to update the Debian page.
Jul 28 15:41:23 <Chox> it's big even after stripping all but essentials
Jul 28 15:42:03 <Marcel_M> ecraven: http://rabenfrost.net/celtune/ipk/armv4t/libsdl-ttf_2.0.3-r0_armv4t.ipk
Jul 28 15:42:08 <ecraven> i could fit an installation with X and matchbox onto 512mb
Jul 28 15:42:10 <ecraven> no xfce though
Jul 28 15:42:15 <ecraven> (which i don't like on the neo anyway)
Jul 28 15:42:19 <ecraven> Marcel_M: thanks!
Jul 28 15:42:24 <Marcel_M> np :)
Jul 28 15:42:31 <ecraven> Zorkman: if you want to try, you could install that link Marcel_M just pasted
Jul 28 15:42:37 <bumbl> ecraven: is it possible to get gps working on debian? 
Jul 28 15:42:39 <ecraven> then the current tarball should work
Jul 28 15:42:46 <Dave> :D
Jul 28 15:42:48 <ecraven> bumbl: yes, it works out of the box
Jul 28 15:42:49 <Zorkman> yes i will do that, freerunner is rebooting though, so give me a sec
Jul 28 15:42:50 <Chox> bumbl: TangoGPS is in Debian, so I'd expect so
Jul 28 15:42:52 <ecraven> i.e. with a current kernel
Jul 28 15:42:59 <ecraven> i am using tangogps here on debian
Jul 28 15:43:06 <Dave> Chox it like it's hot.
Jul 28 15:43:09 <Chox> h0t.
Jul 28 15:43:12 <Dave> what's poppin' ecraven?
Jul 28 15:43:29 <Zorkman> is there a speed-difference when using debian?
Jul 28 15:43:30 <ecraven> Dave: http://eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at/tmp/ballgame.png
Jul 28 15:43:38 <ecraven> Zorkman: i don't notice one
Jul 28 15:43:55 <Dave> :O
Jul 28 15:43:57 <Chox> Zorkman: wouldn't expect so.  it's compiled much the same. same glibc, same kernel.
Jul 28 15:44:04 <Dave> labyrinthe?
Jul 28 15:44:34 <ecraven> you click a group of balls, they disappear
Jul 28 15:44:39 <ecraven> playing around with Scheme on the neo
Jul 28 15:44:45 <Zorkman> what is the fundamentel difference with angstrom then?
Jul 28 15:44:56 <ecraven> it has way more packages ;)
Jul 28 15:44:59 <Chox> angstrom is a distro based upon busybox to make it megasmaller.
Jul 28 15:45:39 <Chox> Debian is full verions of everything, including docs, examples, man pages. 
Jul 28 15:45:39 <Zorkman> once again my asu image doesn't boot anymore, can it have somehting to do with the opkg remove -force-depends efreet i had to do?
Jul 28 15:45:54 <Chox> Zorkman: more likely the hosed kernel from the other day
Jul 28 15:45:54 <Zorkman> bumbl: did you try to reboot your phone after doing that command?
Jul 28 15:46:12 <bumbl> Zorkman: what command?
Jul 28 15:46:32 <Zorkman> but i had the same error this morning Chox and then i flashed the 0722 kernel and it still wouldn't boot
Jul 28 15:46:35 <bumbl> ah
Jul 28 15:46:45 <Chox> Dave: check out written USB Networking page :o
Jul 28 15:46:57 <bumbl> Zorkman: after opkg remove -force-depends efreet
Jul 28 15:47:01 <Chox> rewritten
Jul 28 15:47:09 <bumbl> you should have done an opkg upgrade
Jul 28 15:47:14 <Chox> the efreet thing is nothing to do with it.  Best not to jump to conclusions.
Jul 28 15:47:26 <Chox> well, if you continued the upgrade after it.
Jul 28 15:47:32 <Dave> :D
Jul 28 15:47:42 <ecraven> one thing i noticed is that under 2007.2 matchbox-desktop seemed *very* slow, and kept ignoring my clicks
Jul 28 15:47:47 <ecraven> under debian, it works fine
Jul 28 15:47:53 <Dave> debian!
Jul 28 15:47:56 <Dave> \o/
Jul 28 15:48:02 <Chox> \o\
Jul 28 15:48:06 <Chox>  /o/
Jul 28 15:48:15 <ecraven> Chox: if you don't mind, i'll help with adding information to the Debian page
Jul 28 15:48:16 <Dave> woooooooooooo
Jul 28 15:48:21 <ecraven> i've learned a few things ;)
Jul 28 15:48:41 <ecraven> set it up twice, for some reason the FR killed my sd card's partitions a few days ago ;(
Jul 28 15:49:08 <Chox> ecraven: I need to check a few things first.  it won't be for a few days.  I already tidied it a bit, but too much like the rest of the wiki, it is just a bunch of random stuff.
Jul 28 15:49:15 <Chox> I want it to be a comprehensive, and _easy_ guide.
Jul 28 15:49:20 <Dave> Ecraven, share your knowledge with us, oh wise one! :p
Jul 28 15:49:27 <Chox> by all means add stuff ,but I might rearrange it :o
Jul 28 15:49:32 <ecraven> Chox: no problem at all
Jul 28 15:49:40 <ecraven> the only thing i can't do in debian alone is Xglamo
Jul 28 15:49:42 <ecraven> i needed to copy that
Jul 28 15:49:47 <Chox> right
Jul 28 15:49:49 <ecraven> everything else works fine with debian alone
Jul 28 15:49:59 <Chox> my touchscreen input is bust right now ;-)
Jul 28 15:50:11 <Chox> plus I'm working with a 512MB card, which is real full
Jul 28 15:50:24 <Dave> :o
Jul 28 15:51:53 <Chox> Dave: what are you planning to break today?
Jul 28 15:52:07 <leinirAWAY> Chox: Your fragile mind... again ;)
Jul 28 15:52:47 <Chox> can't wait!
Jul 28 15:53:17 <yoyo_> from witch /etc/rc*.d/ moko starts ?
Jul 28 15:53:20 <ecraven> where in /sys/... can i turn the vibrator on and off?
Jul 28 15:53:24 <niap> can anyone give me a short hint, how i advice gcc of the toolchain that he shoud use the toolchain Assembler?
Jul 28 15:53:45 <Chox> niap: do you mean you can't find the assembler?
Jul 28 15:53:48 <Chox> install binutils
Jul 28 15:53:54 <niap> no
Jul 28 15:54:05 <niap> i mean he uses the host assembler not the arm assembler
Jul 28 15:54:10 <Chox> you'll have to rephrase.  I don't understand your question.
Jul 28 15:54:18 <niap> arm-gcc uses as not arm-as
Jul 28 15:54:29 <Bubbi> When running a opkg upgrade on the freerunner, I get the following error, and wanted to know what to do about it:  * Package ncurses wants to install file /usr/lib/libncurses.so.5     But that file is already provided by package  * libncurses5
Jul 28 15:54:34 <Chox> that sounds like a bug in that GCC.
Jul 28 15:54:46 <Chox> Bubbi: opkg remove -force-depends ncurses
Jul 28 15:54:48 <lindi-> niap: arm-gcc uses arm-as here
Jul 28 15:55:04 <Bubbi> Chox: and then what...?
Jul 28 15:55:09 <Bubbi> nothing else..?
Jul 28 15:55:14 <Chox> Bubbi: and then continue with opkg upgrade
Jul 28 15:55:14 <AntonTakk> ecraven: flashed one of those fso images yet?
Jul 28 15:55:21 <Bubbi> okay, i'll try :)
Jul 28 15:55:24 <niap> yeah i probably messed up the configuration, thats why i am interested in a way to specify which assembler should be used by gcc
Jul 28 15:55:40 <ecraven> AntonTakk: yes, but only played around for a short time
Jul 28 15:55:40 <Chox> niap: I think you have a build configuration problem rather than a GCC problem
Jul 28 15:55:56 <ecraven> AntonTakk: i'm working on debian now ;) i know much more about that than about angström.. and i learn a lot this way
Jul 28 15:56:02 <AntonTakk> ecraven: did it connect to the cell network for you?
Jul 28 15:56:08 <ecraven> AntonTakk: i didn't try gsm
Jul 28 15:56:09 <mmaestri> ecraven: what fs are you using now on debian?
Jul 28 15:56:11 <Chox> i.e, configure is deciddiing that the assemlber is 'as' and calling it directly for some thing.
Jul 28 15:56:11 <AntonTakk> ah
Jul 28 15:56:15 <ecraven> mmaestri: ext2 ;)
Jul 28 15:57:07 <Bubbi> Chox: thanks.. it worked like a charm.. :)
Jul 28 15:57:29 <ecraven> hm.. why does the vibrator have a *brightness*?
Jul 28 15:57:51 <ecraven> interesting, setting brightness to 100 makes it vibrate
Jul 28 15:57:59 <Chox> sex toy.
Jul 28 15:58:32 <ecraven> haptile buttons!
Jul 28 15:59:09 <Bubbi> ecraven: I believe that's because the program for the vibrator was just copied from some backlighting application.
Jul 28 15:59:24 <Chox> someone was too lazy to fix it :p
Jul 28 15:59:27 <Bubbi> well.. some of it anyway :P
Jul 28 15:59:43 <Chox> and firmware for a vibrator
Jul 28 16:00:09 <Bubbi> Or as Chox says.. sex toy.. as in.. It's actually a program made for a sex toy which could both vibrate and flash a lot of LEDs.. :P
Jul 28 16:01:12 <SpeedEvil> buz: you get bluetooth ones.
Jul 28 16:01:18 <Chox> sex toys?
Jul 28 16:01:30 <SpeedEvil> yes.
Jul 28 16:01:38 <Chox> ah, hands free. gotcha.
Jul 28 16:01:39 <Bubbi> Chox: I know what you're thinking.. and yes.. ;)
Jul 28 16:02:13 <Bubbi> what.. now i'm lost.. bluetooth sex toys..? :)
Jul 28 16:02:19 <Chox> a/s/l/bluetooth pin
Jul 28 16:02:34 <Rigolo> http://phoneyworld.com/newspage.aspx?n=1499
Jul 28 16:03:56 <Rigolo> and then everyone was quiet :-)
Jul 28 16:04:33 <Chox> every is busy reading it 
Jul 28 16:04:36 <Chox> everyone
Jul 28 16:05:41 <Rigolo> well... there must be 100's of lurkers on this channel ... because the site of the manufacturer is almost slashdotted ... so slow :-)
Jul 28 16:06:17 <Chox> last time I claimed there were 300 people here, Dave went and counted them all - 80
Jul 28 16:06:27 <Zorkman> i was lurking :)
Jul 28 16:08:00 <Rigolo> mmmmm this sounds scarry : 14.5 cm high tensile coated cable antenna/extractor ... especially the last word :-)
Jul 28 16:08:24 <Rigolo> now it suddenly is a vibrating tampax :-)
Jul 28 16:08:28 <XorA> 410 people including bots :-)
Jul 28 16:08:46 * Rigolo goes shopping ..... :-)
Jul 28 16:08:52 <Rigolo> for dinner that is :-)
Jul 28 16:10:19 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03graeme 07org.openmoko.dev * rf765473c98ea 10/packages/detect-stylus/ (detect-stylus_svn.bb files/install-detect-tsdevice.patch): [detect-stylus] install and package detect-tsdevice
Jul 28 16:10:35 <AntonTakk> hrm, fso nightlies are very impressive, but it's not letting me make or receive calls, so, back to asu
Jul 28 16:10:49 <Bubbi> Rigolo: well.. :) I knew about some wireless eggs, that could be used, but this one looks more like a small pill.. :P 
Jul 28 16:10:51 <Dave> crap
Jul 28 16:10:55 <Zorkman> careful with upgrading the asu
Jul 28 16:11:12 <AntonTakk> Zorkman: i avoid opkg upgrade like the plague
Jul 28 16:12:40 <Dave> FUCK YOU NEOD!!!
Jul 28 16:12:41 <Bubbi> why avoid upgrading..? I thought that everything that was upgraded, actually was tested..?
Jul 28 16:13:25 <Bubbi> I'm kinda new to the world of Linux, so please enlighten me on the topic.. :)
Jul 28 16:13:52 <AntonTakk> Bubbi: I ran opkgupgrade exactly once, then had to re-flash to get my fr to boot  :)
Jul 28 16:14:27 <Bubbi> oh.. :S damn..
Jul 28 16:14:53 <AntonTakk> anyone using asu from 7/22? any major problems with it?
Jul 28 16:15:03 <AntonTakk> or minor yet anoying problems?
Jul 28 16:15:06 <Bubbi> I've read that you had to upgrade dropbear for itself, then run opkg upgrade afterwards.
Jul 28 16:15:15 <Zorkman> AntonTakk: no exposure, it doesn't start
Jul 28 16:15:20 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07zhone * r22f8bcc35dcd 10/src/zhone: 
Jul 28 16:15:20 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: * use python logging
Jul 28 16:15:20 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: * check that the suspend button has been held for at least one second before actually suspending
Jul 28 16:15:36 <Zorkman> AntonTakk: and keyboard does not pop-up automaticlly, but you can fix that with an dj file
Jul 28 16:15:40 <Bubbi> so I just did that, and I haven't had any problems with it yet
Jul 28 16:15:41 <bumbl> AntonTakk: opkg upgrade does not work properly
Jul 28 16:16:14 <Chox> needs a bit of hand holding. some of the packages aren't put together 100%
Jul 28 16:16:16 <AntonTakk> Zorkman: know the last image where the kb does pop up?
Jul 28 16:16:21 <Chox> not really opkg's fault
Jul 28 16:16:48 <ecraven> have a nice evening, everybody ;)
Jul 28 16:16:54 <Zorkman> AntonTakk: nope, sorry, but the fix is very easy, you jsut need to replace a file, i can give you a link
Jul 28 16:17:02 <Zorkman> bye ecraven
Jul 28 16:17:22 <AntonTakk> Zorkman: i already have one - edited my self (ive done some e17 themeing)
Jul 28 16:17:41 <AntonTakk> Zorkman: assuming your talking about the qwerty button in illume?
Jul 28 16:18:13 <weatherhead> hey guys
Jul 28 16:18:15 <weatherhead> I ordered a freerunner yesterday, is it likely it'll have a fixed GPS?
Jul 28 16:18:42 <Chox> weatherhead: the software fix in the kernel seems to be sufficient
Jul 28 16:19:00 <Dave> :]
Jul 28 16:19:04 <Zorkman> AntonTakk: yes
Jul 28 16:19:07 <Chox> so, the answer is no, but you can upgrade it.
Jul 28 16:19:12 <weatherhead> Chox: I accept that, but it's just out of interest really,
Jul 28 16:19:17 <weatherhead> so it won't contain the hardware fix?
Jul 28 16:19:23 <AntonTakk> Zorkman: cool, also, know if the kernel from 7/22 is stable?
Jul 28 16:19:42 <Chox> I don't think anyone here can answer that, but I wouldn't count on it, personally
Jul 28 16:19:46 <AntonTakk> weatherhead: no way to know till you have it in hand, really
Jul 28 16:20:04 <Zorkman> i haven't used it to make calls/sms, but everthing else seemed "quite" stable
Jul 28 16:20:09 <Bubbi> is there a special way to upgrade the root filesystem..? Or does that get upgraded when using opkg upgrade..?
Jul 28 16:20:17 <AntonTakk> cool, thanks for the info
Jul 28 16:20:35 <Chox> Bubbi: everything is a package, so yes.
Jul 28 16:20:38 <mjr> Bubbi, where else would the upgraded packages go?
Jul 28 16:20:53 <Chox> the jffs2 is just an aggregation of packages, really
Jul 28 16:20:54 <mjr> anyway, you can flash a whole image if you prefer, it'll just take every other change with it too
Jul 28 16:21:02 <Bubbi> well it was just that I was reading that it was possible to flash it..
Jul 28 16:21:04 <mjr> (sometimes desirable ;)
Jul 28 16:21:22 <Bubbi> but didn't know if it would get upgraded with opkg upgrade
Jul 28 16:21:31 <Chox> Bubbi: you're asking the wrong question.
Jul 28 16:21:46 <Chox> the rootfs is a whole bunch of packages.
Jul 28 16:21:47 <Bubbi> Chox: probably :)
Jul 28 16:22:06 <malik1972> lpotter: ping
Jul 28 16:22:24 <mjr> aand of course with fast-paced development and suboptimal testing there may well be situations where a package upgrade will leave something broken
Jul 28 16:22:38 <Bubbi> Chox: ah, well I'm still at a very early learning stage, so it's always good to know more about how the things work..
Jul 28 16:22:52 <mjr> but it "shouldn't" happen
Jul 28 16:23:12 <Chox> mjr: "thousand year storm" :o
Jul 28 16:23:14 <mjr> well, more so than with flashing whole filesystem upgrades, which are likely to break things too ;)
Jul 28 16:23:52 <Bubbi> :D I'll keep to opkg upgrade then.. :)
Jul 28 16:24:08 <Bubbi> no flashing for me.. I can live with the extra time it takes..
Jul 28 16:24:27 <Chox> opkg upgrade will generally be much faster
Jul 28 16:24:43 <Zorkman> Bubbi: don't upgrade today, it will make the ASU unbootable
Jul 28 16:25:19 <Bubbi> oh.. I just read that it would be slower with opkg upgrade than with flashing.. Well.. it's not that it takes that awfully long time, that I can't just leave it in for a few minutes..
Jul 28 16:25:28 <Chox> ..
Jul 28 16:25:49 <Chox> flashing requires manual download, getting to u-boot, reboot, wait.
Jul 28 16:25:57 <Bubbi> Zorkman: I'm using 2007.02.. The one that's installed from factory
Jul 28 16:25:58 <weatherhead> which image would you guys recommend for a new freerunner? I have read a few articles on the differences
Jul 28 16:26:16 <Chox> opkg upgrade requires a command and no reboot unless you want to use any upgraded kernel, and you keep any settings
Jul 28 16:26:51 <Bubbi> yeah, so it would be faster to flash the neo, if it wasn't because of the extra work, that you had to do :)
Jul 28 16:27:03 <Chox> er. yeah. no.
Jul 28 16:27:23 <Bubbi> anyway.. opkg upgrade it is.. :)
Jul 28 16:28:28 <Bubbi> hmm.. is it possible to read what is new for the different packages..? It's just that I would like to know what have been added/changed for the different packages..
Jul 28 16:28:44 <Chox> your . key is stuck :o
Jul 28 16:28:59 <Bubbi> :) No I just like to use it a lot ;)
Jul 28 16:29:25 <Bubbi> It's a bad habit, I know.
Jul 28 16:36:21 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * rcc81e05f4a39 10/src/zhone: disable unfinished GPS graphs for milestone 2
Jul 28 16:39:46 <Fossi> "NOTE: Applying patch '303-c99-complex-ugly-hack.patch'"
Jul 28 16:39:48 <Fossi> XD
Jul 28 16:40:40 <donomo> oh oh. looking forward to milestone2
Jul 28 16:42:06 <AntonTakk> yeah, hope they get gsm and gprs fixed nicely
Jul 28 16:42:16 <AntonTakk> so i can use it to make calls  :)
Jul 28 16:42:17 <balrog-k1n> oh oh. can we get openmoko/user/ cloaks on freenode?
Jul 28 16:42:27 <Chox> ohknoes.
Jul 28 16:42:43 * balrog-k1n points at mickeyl
Jul 28 16:43:11 <AntonTakk> seems like fso is moving along pretty quickly
Jul 28 16:43:46 <Zorkman> isn't it a few weeks late? (milestone2)
Jul 28 16:43:50 <donomo> i give credit to python
Jul 28 16:44:07 <AntonTakk> ui is nice and responsive, too
Jul 28 16:44:13 <donomo> must be nicer to develop in than c
Jul 28 16:44:20 <linuxxr> a changelog is wat we need
Jul 28 16:44:46 <donomo> AntonTakk: yes i love it so far. it could use a screen lock though. im afraid my pocket will dial something and i wont notice until 500 minutes later
Jul 28 16:45:32 <donomo> linuxxr: it would rock to have someone analyize the code changes/mailing lists and make blog posts like lwn.net
Jul 28 16:45:38 <AntonTakk> donomo: the daily i just tried, thou not making calls, or even seemingly being able to connect to the gsm network was using illume in the bg, so the screen could be locked by pressing aux
Jul 28 16:46:12 <donomo> AntonTakk: i tried a daily and got 'no DBUS' in the upper right, so i went back to milestone1
Jul 28 16:46:23 <mmaestri> where can i find the latest FSO image?
Jul 28 16:46:38 <Zorkman> donomo: is tyhe sound quality better?
Jul 28 16:46:53 <AntonTakk> donomo: when I tried milestone1, it would make the call but there seemed to be no audio
Jul 28 16:47:29 <AntonTakk> donomo: and i really need at least a contact list
Jul 28 16:47:59 <AntonTakk> even if it isn't yet fully integrated with the dialer (as seemed to be the case in the daily i just tried)
Jul 28 16:48:31 <Chox> man. www.cuil.com is being banged.
Jul 28 16:48:46 <donomo> Zorkman: not that i noticed
Jul 28 16:49:07 <AntonTakk> hrm....
Jul 28 16:49:22 <donomo> AntonTakk: yeah i miss the contact list and no SMS, but the large finger touch interface and speedy responsiveness is sooooo nice.
Jul 28 16:49:37 <AntonTakk> please don't tell me that i had tmobile change my sim just to have it stop working in asu and fso and start in 2007.2
Jul 28 16:49:54 <AntonTakk> oh, whew, seems safe
Jul 28 16:50:00 * AntonTakk tries a test call
Jul 28 16:50:05 <donomo> dou. i use a pre-paid tmobile sim. works well for me
Jul 28 16:50:35 <bumbl> when opkg upgrade fails to upgrade a single package, how do I upgrade the remaining ones which don't have to do anything with the package?
Jul 28 16:50:45 <Chox> fix the problem.
Jul 28 16:50:58 <bumbl> Chox: if I am not able to fix the problem
Jul 28 16:51:01 <donomo> bumbl: are you referring to ncurses?
Jul 28 16:51:03 <Chox> ask here.
Jul 28 16:51:14 <bumbl> Chox: I have already asked
Jul 28 16:51:21 <daMaestro> anyone had the issue where the freerunner would not charge?
Jul 28 16:51:24 <Chox> opkg won't proceed if there's an inconsistent state
Jul 28 16:51:38 <Chox> did we not already give you a solution?
Jul 28 16:51:40 <daMaestro> i left it plugged into the shipped charger overnight and it was unable to boot this morning (no power)
Jul 28 16:51:41 <bumbl> donomo: no to libcairo,...
Jul 28 16:51:50 <Tig|> bumbl: put all the error messages you can find on somewhere like pastbin.com and post the link in here and we will do our best to help :)
Jul 28 16:52:04 <AntonTakk> daMaestro: maybe a power outage last night?
Jul 28 16:53:06 <AntonTakk> daMaestro: there is a uboot bug reguarding un-charged batteries causing the fr not to boot
Jul 28 16:53:11 <donomo> bumbl: id start over with a new rootfs then
Jul 28 16:53:23 <Tig|> daMaestro: double check the stupid stuff first like the power strip being on,  next move to the charger,  try plugging in via USB when it is charging there should be an LED flashing on the left hand side iirc
Jul 28 16:53:30 <bumbl> donomo: the problem is that i have started with a new rootfs
Jul 28 16:53:35 <AntonTakk> back to slow but reliable asu for me  :-)
Jul 28 16:53:51 <bumbl> posting the error message in a moment
Jul 28 16:58:45 <bumbl> http://pastebin.com/f47167acd
Jul 28 16:58:51 <bumbl> the problem
Jul 28 17:02:50 <AntonTakk> :-(  can't get gtk/etc apps via opkg in recent asu nightlies?
Jul 28 17:03:10 <Chox> "doesn't work" ?
Jul 28 17:03:23 <AntonTakk> no, they just aren't there
Jul 28 17:04:00 <Chox> buml: fix was mentioned earlier, perhaps not to you.  opkg -force-depends remove efreet
Jul 28 17:04:20 <Chox> libefreet0 package is missing a conflicts line.
Jul 28 17:04:33 <AntonTakk> opkg list doesn't even show non-asu stuff
Jul 28 17:04:44 <AntonTakk> no gtk, no tangogps, etc, etc
Jul 28 17:05:09 <Chox> AntonTakk: did you do opkg update?
Jul 28 17:05:30 <AntonTakk> no, does opkg need to be updated to get the configs for the other repos?
Jul 28 17:05:52 * Chox not talking about configs.  But on a free install, it'll need to fetch the package lists.
Jul 28 17:05:55 <Chox> fresh
Jul 28 17:06:08 <AntonTakk> oh, update
Jul 28 17:06:12 <AntonTakk> ....one sec
Jul 28 17:06:18 <bumbl> Chox: that opkg -force-depends remove efreet fix was mentioned by me
Jul 28 17:06:22 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * ref180fb32d41 10/otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call.xml.in: org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call.xml.in: add comment about dtmf being sent to all active calls
Jul 28 17:06:22 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * r32e76ce49a11 10/otapi/xhtml/docbook-org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call.xhtml: otapi: regen docs
Jul 28 17:06:32 <Chox> bumbl: and? ;o
Jul 28 17:06:33 <bumbl> the second error is what won't vansih
Jul 28 17:07:11 <Chox> well, clearly this is the result of running before that opkg command.  that won't do us any good.
Jul 28 17:07:41 <bumbl> http://pastebin.com/m29fd4841
Jul 28 17:08:47 <Chox> right, inconsistent paackages.  task-* are simply meta packages which depends upon others, but don't contain any files themselves.  simply work around is to remove that task package
Jul 28 17:08:55 <Chox> simple
Jul 28 17:09:14 <Chox> That's not ideal, but such is life when using in development packages.
Jul 28 17:14:17 <bumbl> Chox: I won't remove it, i will wait until tomorrow and hope it will resolve
Jul 28 17:14:32 <Chox> that is your other option, of course.
Jul 28 17:16:09 <bumbl> as soon as my laptop is back I'll try to setup gentoo + icecream/distcc for the freerunner
Jul 28 17:16:33 <Chox> ricer.
Jul 28 17:16:43 <araujo> bumbl, awesome :-]
Jul 28 17:20:18 <bumbl> araujo: josch had gentoo on his neo1973 but without distcc/icecream
Jul 28 17:20:29 <Chox> oh dear.
Jul 28 17:20:34 <araujo> bumbl, really?!?!
Jul 28 17:20:37 <Chox> ?!?!?
Jul 28 17:20:38 <bumbl> he said he stopped compiling openoffice after 2 weeks
Jul 28 17:20:38 <araujo> haha, wow, cool
Jul 28 17:20:41 <Chox> !!11one!!
Jul 28 17:20:42 <araujo> hahaha
Jul 28 17:20:44 <josch> ya rly...
Jul 28 17:20:51 <araujo> josch, is that true? :-)
Jul 28 17:20:55 <josch> -.-
Jul 28 17:21:05 <Chox> yes, I did a native ARM compile for the OO.org port.  took 3 days on a fast ARM desktop
Jul 28 17:21:06 <araujo> I mean .. that you have gentoo on the neo?
Jul 28 17:21:11 <josch> we put it on our neo1973 last 24c3 half a year ago
Jul 28 17:21:14 <josch> no magic there
Jul 28 17:21:27 <josch> no atm i have debian on my neo
Jul 28 17:21:47 <araujo> josch, do you have any link for the Gentoo installation?
Jul 28 17:22:03 <Chox> gah, Gentoo on FR.  too much rice.
Jul 28 17:22:05 <araujo> or it is very straight-forward?
Jul 28 17:22:13 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rc741fa85c271 10/packages/python/python-efl.inc: python-efl.inc: remove bashisms to make the Ubuntu crew happy
Jul 28 17:22:14 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rf0c5a1b7e901 10/packages/ (6 files in 4 dirs): [bashism] Move away from pushd/popd as it is only available for bash
Jul 28 17:22:14 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r05cde60de264 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade Xglamo to get Xinerama fix needed for Qtopia
Jul 28 17:23:02 <josch> araujo, no
Jul 28 17:23:12 <josch> araujo, yes
Jul 28 17:23:19 <araujo> haha ok, 
Jul 28 17:23:24 <kelvie_work> I'd have thought gentoo would be one of the first distros on the neo :P
Jul 28 17:23:28 * araujo guesses so
Jul 28 17:23:30 <AntonTakk> aya! asu fleshout  :)
Jul 28 17:23:30 <kelvie_work> installing gentoo is the same on most platforms
Jul 28 17:23:38 <araujo> kelvie_work, *nods*
Jul 28 17:23:44 <Chox> well, wait for the first person to install ARMedSlack
Jul 28 17:23:54 <bumbl> Chox: after the upgrade without solving the dependency problems x won't start
Jul 28 17:23:58 <bumbl> *damn*
Jul 28 17:24:02 <Chox> aw.
Jul 28 17:24:09 <AntonTakk> opkg list | grep qtopia-phone-x11-* | grep -v dbg | grep -v dev | grep -v gta01 | awk '{ print $1 }' && for PKG in $(cat install); do opkg install $PKG
Jul 28 17:24:10 <kelvie_work> paludis > portage for dep resolving
Jul 28 17:24:26 <AntonTakk> installs all the other qtopiua-x11 apps
Jul 28 17:26:37 <araujo> josch, and how it worked?
Jul 28 17:26:51 <josch> araujo, find out yourself
Jul 28 17:26:51 <araujo> I mean, it is usable?
Jul 28 17:26:59 <josch> will be as usable as debian is
Jul 28 17:27:21 <araujo> yeah .. just wishing they start selling the new shipment of neo devices
Jul 28 17:27:22 <araujo> :-(
Jul 28 17:27:27 <kelvie_work> josch: did you compile it all on the device itself? :o
Jul 28 17:27:30 * araujo waiting since a week
Jul 28 17:27:59 <kelvie_work> what I would have done is mount the entire root partition via nfs.. and somehow get some cross compiling going
Jul 28 17:28:11 <kelvie_work> in a chroot
Jul 28 17:29:17 <araujo> kelvie_work, I guess I wouldn't mind to cross-compile packages , make binaries, and install using portage ....
Jul 28 17:30:30 <kelvie_work> araujo: hehe.. it would end up almost exactly like using opkg
Jul 28 17:30:33 <kelvie_work> and bitbake
Jul 28 17:30:40 <josch> kelvie_work, i put stage1 on it and compiled the rest
Jul 28 17:30:42 <kelvie_work> (since bitbake is based off portage)
Jul 28 17:30:42 * Chox laffs.
Jul 28 17:30:58 <kelvie_work> Chox: yes yes, we know you hate gentoo(ers)
Jul 28 17:31:06 <araujo> kelvie_work, I guess ... though portage > *
Jul 28 17:31:07 <araujo> :-D
Jul 28 17:31:08 <Chox> Dave is too quiet.  He must be breaking something.
Jul 28 17:31:17 <kelvie_work> naw, paludis > portage :P
Jul 28 17:31:20 <Chox> no, just Gentoo :o  I do hate one Gentooer, but that's nothing to do with FR
Jul 28 17:31:23 <kelvie_work> the ebuild system is rreally great though
Jul 28 17:31:38 <araujo> kelvie_work, well, portage ... is more like a standard of packaging .. that's what I mean
Jul 28 17:31:47 <kelvie_work> yeah
Jul 28 17:31:51 <araujo> kelvie_work, but you are free to use whatever manager you like
Jul 28 17:31:54 <kelvie_work> hehe
Jul 28 17:31:59 <araujo> I guess I would try paludis on the neo
Jul 28 17:33:11 <bumbl> kelvie_work: yet another flamewar: i can't see what paludis does better than portage, it does things just a bit diffrent
Jul 28 17:33:44 <kelvie_work> bumbl: oh.. it actually resolves dependency issues rather than just fail
Jul 28 17:34:22 <kelvie_work> like the dreaded circular dependencies..
Jul 28 17:34:55 <kelvie_work> it is alpha and has a bunch of annoyances though :/
Jul 28 17:34:59 <bumbl> never had problems with portage, maybe luck
Jul 28 17:35:17 <kelvie_work> I've never had issues up till the last year.. but I think we're getting off topic :)
Jul 28 17:35:39 <araujo> well, the circular dependencies are usually a USE flag conflicting configuration
Jul 28 17:36:40 <araujo> And that's pretty much up to the package manager (how to handle it) /me no more off-topic 
Jul 28 17:44:19 <donomo> gentoo on FR? sounds like a map from doom 3 (ie. hell)
Jul 28 17:46:34 <yoyo_> where can I pus source off http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/caa6edb406f3a2f13a91cec931fed5a5.png ?
Jul 28 17:46:40 <janneg> well, gentoo can be cross compiled
Jul 28 17:47:46 <kelvie_work> donomo: FYI bitbake is based off gentoo's portage... which is all gentoo is really :p
Jul 28 17:50:48 <anasazi> hi everybody. My openmoko-today won't start properly due to missing dbus: http://pastebin.com/m2c0919d (2007.02). any idea what I can do to fix that?
Jul 28 17:51:26 <mw|> try to restart /etc/init.d/dbus
Jul 28 17:51:30 <mw|> and look for error-messages
Jul 28 17:52:26 <mw|> bah.. I know the error
Jul 28 17:52:49 <mw|> type     dbus-launch openmoko-today                 so that you get the right environment variabels
Jul 28 17:53:09 <mw|> programs launched from X get this from their parent processes normally
Jul 28 17:54:20 <anasazi> http://pastebin.com/m5e28cf51
Jul 28 17:54:31 <anasazi> soo
Jul 28 17:55:36 <anasazi> as I read
Jul 28 17:56:08 <railer> Let's try the morning crowd, anyone seen any goo sites for learning how to make themes and how to implement themes for the openmoko?
Jul 28 17:56:24 * donomo laughs
Jul 28 17:56:47 <donomo> railer: i think its different for each image
Jul 28 17:56:48 <anasazi> mmmh mw|, I don't get a clue what is wrong here
Jul 28 17:56:53 <anasazi> but something definitely still is ;-)
Jul 28 17:56:53 <kristian-m> yoyo_ you can start a projects.openmoko.org page for it
Jul 28 17:57:03 <donomo> railer: sounds like a great blog post to write up though
Jul 28 17:57:30 <railer> ya I'm working on it, just busy with a project or two first
Jul 28 17:57:38 <donomo> railer: what image are you targeting?
Jul 28 17:57:50 <railer> 2007.2
Jul 28 17:57:52 * donomo is not sure if image is the best word 
Jul 28 17:58:00 <railer> distro?
Jul 28 17:58:14 <donomo> meh
Jul 28 17:58:23 <dcordes> mooooooo
Jul 28 17:58:30 <donomo> baaaaaaa
Jul 28 18:00:09 <railer> I guess I'll be adding it in soon, as something, I have more the pieces figured out just need a way to install and a theme chooser would be nice
Jul 28 18:00:59 <donomo> railer: why 2007.2? FSO is coming along nicely. neither have a theme manager
Jul 28 18:01:10 <donomo> (that i know of)
Jul 28 18:01:45 <railer> You know that one of the big problems with openmoko and open source in general, we are constantly having to reinvent the wheel for competing os's it's a massive waist of time
Jul 28 18:01:59 <Chox> on the contrary.
Jul 28 18:02:24 <Chox> OpenMoko is based upon considerable work done in open embedded, which was designed for just this purpose
Jul 28 18:02:34 <Chox> and there's been no open phone before, so there has to be new stuff
Jul 28 18:02:49 <Chox> anyway, everyone alwasy has a better way of doing things.
Jul 28 18:02:56 <Chox> And finally, the word is "waste" :p
Jul 28 18:03:05 <railer> I am attempting to make a statement, I want to write for the system that brought me.
Jul 28 18:03:34 <Chox> I agree that the FSO/ASU/2007.2 thing is a huge mess.  but conflating that with general statements about OSS is wrong.
Jul 28 18:03:50 <railer> Chox let's see if I spell this right: "Bite Me" did I get it? 
Jul 28 18:03:57 <weatherhead> in the end, OSS makes you have to write LESS stuff
Jul 28 18:03:57 <Chox> No, try harder.
Jul 28 18:04:05 <weatherhead> you can use libraries and backends that other people have written, legally
Jul 28 18:05:40 <SpeedEvil> In some cases.
Jul 28 18:05:50 <SpeedEvil> LGPL libraries, yes.
Jul 28 18:06:04 <Chox> LegalEvil
Jul 28 18:06:17 <CaptObviousman> why can't an open project use GPL libraries?
Jul 28 18:06:30 * kelvie_work grabs the popcorn
Jul 28 18:06:30 <Chox> indeed, the mess with ASU etc, is due to contrary goals of Commerical vs OSS.
Jul 28 18:06:44 <SpeedEvil> Cap_J_L_Picard: Oh - I mean commercial stuff.
Jul 28 18:06:49 * CaptObviousman wasn't aware OpenMoko was out to make money or be commercial
Jul 28 18:06:51 <CaptObviousman> this is news to me
Jul 28 18:07:09 <Chox> CaptObviousman: GPL libraries aren't actually that common.  and they make wider adoption harder.  Read GNU's LGPL justification
Jul 28 18:07:13 <SpeedEvil> Cap_J_L_Picard: Openmoko is sponsored by FIC.
Jul 28 18:07:21 <donomo> CaptObviousman: someone has got to pay the bar tab for karaoke nights.
Jul 28 18:07:27 <CaptObviousman> SpeedEvil: I'm over here
Jul 28 18:07:36 <CaptObviousman> I bet that other dude doesn't like being pinged needlessly
Jul 28 18:07:40 <Chox> CaptObviousman: you're jumping to assumptions.  MY commerical reference had to do with Trolltech
Jul 28 18:08:04 <SpeedEvil> CaptObviousman: FIC is a large phone maker. Their aim is to get a usable operating system for their phones, so they don't have to pay Windows/Sybian/... license fees, and can sell their phones directly to customers.
Jul 28 18:08:11 * CaptObviousman made no assumption, instead asked a question
Jul 28 18:08:20 <railer> no, I think linux could be much better suited if we could consolidate many os's in a single grouping. If Linux has to compete and divide it programmer base first and then go against the big boys it will never win. 
Jul 28 18:08:29 <CaptObviousman> and in return, we get a phone we can do whatever we like with, do I have it correct?
Jul 28 18:08:41 <CaptObviousman> railer: win what?
Jul 28 18:08:49 <CaptObviousman> is there a prize for winning?
Jul 28 18:08:52 <SpeedEvil> CaptObviousman: (my assumption) Commercial apps are a big part of a successful platform - it's hard to do open-source maps for example due to map data restrictions.
Jul 28 18:09:14 <railer> The heart and minds of the public
Jul 28 18:09:16 <donomo> SpeedEvil: open source data i think is an upcoming area of important. eg. openstreetmaps
Jul 28 18:09:25 * CaptObviousman doesn't care about the hearts and minds of the public
Jul 28 18:09:53 * CaptObviousman never thinks about Linux in us vs them terms. Either people use Linux because it has certain advantages, or they don't
Jul 28 18:09:56 * SpeedEvil points to Glenrothes (which I've roughly filled in) on openstreetmap.
Jul 28 18:10:25 * railer thinks CaptObviousman has no friends.
Jul 28 18:10:28 <CaptObviousman> I honestly don't care if FIC never makes a profit off the OpenMoko project
Jul 28 18:10:33 <niap> interesting that after 20years of successful open-source development people come and tell whats the way to success
Jul 28 18:10:33 <CaptObviousman> that's not my concern
Jul 28 18:10:39 <SpeedEvil> donomo: I agree - but it's a long time in very many areas before it gets there.
Jul 28 18:10:46 <SpeedEvil> Cap_J_L_Picard: You do.
Jul 28 18:10:49 <SpeedEvil> capt:
Jul 28 18:11:01 <SpeedEvil> CaptObviousman: if they can make money, it means other phone makers can make money at it.
Jul 28 18:11:02 <zedstar_> if FIC dont make profit or loose money long term they will pull the plug they aint a charity
Jul 28 18:11:16 * Chox wants loose money
Jul 28 18:11:17 <SpeedEvil> CaptObviousman: which will mean other phone makers will start running openmoko.
Jul 28 18:11:20 <donomo> too many captians, not enough ensigns. :)
Jul 28 18:11:29 <Chox> niap: SCOtastic.
Jul 28 18:11:34 <CaptObviousman> so if someone else starts using openmoko, I'll code for them
Jul 28 18:11:36 <SpeedEvil> CaptObviousman: Which means that openmoko will be widely available on a variety of platforms.
Jul 28 18:11:41 <railer> CaptObviousman no profit = no more openmoko = less freedom
Jul 28 18:11:52 * CaptObviousman concedes the point about profit
Jul 28 18:12:00 <donomo> the coming android phones will likely be some sexy hardware.
Jul 28 18:12:02 <CaptObviousman> fine, I care enough that FIC continues funding the OpenMoko project
Jul 28 18:12:07 <CaptObviousman> beyond that, I don't
Jul 28 18:12:16 <Chox> a prophet of profit.
Jul 28 18:12:39 <railer> we then you're one of the reasons Microsoft has nothing to worry about
Jul 28 18:12:49 <CaptObviousman> railer: come again?
Jul 28 18:12:53 <Chox> I don't think anyone cares much about FIC per se,  It's not a big or well known company like Apple, Google, MS, etc.
Jul 28 18:12:54 <railer> we = well
Jul 28 18:13:05 <railer> sticky l key
Jul 28 18:13:06 <SpeedEvil> Chox: it is actually quite a big company
Jul 28 18:13:07 <zedstar_> also nobody knows here for sure if Openmoko isnt just a startup who would sell to a buyer (evil corporation) if the price was right
Jul 28 18:13:07 <CaptObviousman> I gathered that. Explain your statment more please
Jul 28 18:13:36 <CaptObviousman> zedstar_: the beauty of open source is, if they decided to do so, we could take the code and use it elsewhere
Jul 28 18:13:43 <Chox> SpeedEvil: I know, but it's not quote what I meant.  few people in the US have heard of it.
Jul 28 18:13:50 <donomo> zedstar_: what would the buyer get? office space in taiwan? doesnt seem too desireable
Jul 28 18:14:12 <Chox> SpeedEvil: er, quite!  
Jul 28 18:14:16 * Chox gives up.
Jul 28 18:14:20 <CaptObviousman> railer: why am I "one of the reasons Microsoft has nothing to worry about" ?
Jul 28 18:15:25 <railer> as long as linux continues to have infighting there will never be a big enough base of any one distro to complete with microsoft, and the only way to get that is to be able to concentrate on a single distro
Jul 28 18:15:44 <CaptObviousman> which distro do you favor?
Jul 28 18:15:52 <zedstar_> well Access bought palmsource for a lot of money....weird things happen ;)
Jul 28 18:15:59 <Chox> but "any one distro" would never been suitable for all users and all devices.
Jul 28 18:16:01 <railer> currently the most popular ubuntu
Jul 28 18:16:15 <CaptObviousman> any particular flavor of Ubuntu, or just vanilla?
Jul 28 18:16:15 <Chox> ubuntu is a terrible server and embedded OS
Jul 28 18:16:23 <donomo> nokia is interesting, they have symbian and took it open source. they bought trolltech. i wonder what they have up their sleve
Jul 28 18:16:32 <Chox> no matter how sexy it is on the desktop.
Jul 28 18:16:36 <yoyo_> projects.openmoko.org (log in) is down :/
Jul 28 18:16:53 <railer> I'm not saying we have to have JUST one for everything, but 50 or 60 is way too many
Jul 28 18:16:59 <CaptObviousman> so in your mind, it would be perfect if everyone ran Ubuntu
Jul 28 18:17:07 <Chox> donomo: symbian for values of "open source".  it's all a big dodgy, IMO.
Jul 28 18:17:08 <CaptObviousman> ahh, the story changes
Jul 28 18:17:21 <Chox> dancing goalposts!
Jul 28 18:17:24 <Chox> who had the popcorn?
Jul 28 18:17:27 <donomo> railer: its the long tail, 50 or 60 distros used by a handful of people is unavoidable and suits those few people
Jul 28 18:17:31 * CaptObviousman would also like popcorn
Jul 28 18:17:42 <donomo> Chox: yes, plus it'll take a long time to release
Jul 28 18:17:44 <CaptObviousman> there are a crapton of people running Ubuntu
Jul 28 18:17:49 <railer> I think it would increase number of linux programs and popularity considerably
Jul 28 18:18:05 <Chox> yeah, dammit.  I only have 22000 programs to choose from in Debian.
Jul 28 18:18:09 <donomo> i <3 ubuntu
Jul 28 18:18:27 <CaptObviousman> I happen to think Debian-style packaging is lame. You guys split code up into a zillion sub-packages, and it's irritating
Jul 28 18:18:32 <railer> chox name one decent account program for business
Jul 28 18:18:40 <CaptObviousman> plus most of your users are dependent upon dependency checking
Jul 28 18:18:47 <Chox> railer: why should I?  I never claimed such a thing existed.
Jul 28 18:19:11 <CaptObviousman> I avoid Debian and its derivatives for that reason, among others
Jul 28 18:19:16 <railer> 22000 and not a single accounting program?
Jul 28 18:19:25 <railer> current games? 
Jul 28 18:19:38 <CaptObviousman> I hear you saying "not enough has been done"
Jul 28 18:19:46 <CaptObviousman> "there's large holes in what programs are availalbe"
Jul 28 18:19:50 <Chox> "current games" meaning what - commerical ones?  Linux has shitloads of games I can play already
Jul 28 18:19:52 <CaptObviousman> the open source mantra is "code it yourself"
Jul 28 18:19:58 <Chox> you're trying to foist your own requirements on everyone
Jul 28 18:20:04 * CaptObviousman concurs with Chox
Jul 28 18:20:13 <CaptObviousman> we should all standardize on one distro, as long as it's my distro
Jul 28 18:20:23 <Chox> and conflating the needs to those who are using Windows.
Jul 28 18:20:31 <Chox> s/to/of/
Jul 28 18:20:32 <apt> Chox meant: and conflating the needs of those who are using Windows.
Jul 28 18:20:48 <railer> that's the point 22 THOUSAND programs and massive holes still exist, because there is NO organization, there is massive waste
Jul 28 18:20:53 * CaptObviousman pokes at the bot. That's a neat trick
Jul 28 18:20:56 <Chox> Anyway, Ubunut is not really suitable for FR.  there's no ARM port, AFAIK
Jul 28 18:20:59 <CaptObviousman> never thought of that
Jul 28 18:21:07 <weatherhead> if there was "only one distro" then linux becomes OSX
Jul 28 18:21:12 <weatherhead> I don't want that
Jul 28 18:21:12 <CaptObviousman> railer: if you want a frickin accounting program, then go code it!
Jul 28 18:21:16 <CaptObviousman> no one's stopping you from doing so!
Jul 28 18:21:27 <weatherhead> railer: gnucash works fine for our business accounting :p
Jul 28 18:21:27 <Chox> there's much more massive waste in the Windows world.  Look at the disaster that is MS Word.  Trying to one up me will get you no where.
Jul 28 18:21:31 <Stroller> railer: there are one or two LARGE companies using SQL-Ledger / LedgerSMB
Jul 28 18:21:50 <railer> I'm not saying put ubuntu on openmoko, 
Jul 28 18:21:52 <CaptObviousman> and whatever happened to good ol' fashioned Excel/Calc
Jul 28 18:21:53 <Chox> And the endless trash of Windows shareware.
Jul 28 18:21:55 * donomo wonders where all this is going
Jul 28 18:22:04 <Chox> railer: ah, I see.  FR has _different requirements.
Jul 28 18:22:08 <Chox> imagine that.
Jul 28 18:22:19 <CaptObviousman> I'm not certain how we got started on this topic
Jul 28 18:22:26 <CaptObviousman> I think I was accused of being a boon to Microsoft
Jul 28 18:22:37 <CaptObviousman> I've still yet to hear a justification for that statement
Jul 28 18:22:47 <railer> but seriously we nedd what now 4 competing distro's for a freaking PHONE
Jul 28 18:22:49 <donomo> railer was talking about a blog post documenting how to create new themes for 2007.2, which is a great idea
Jul 28 18:22:54 <Chox> CaptObviousman: I can give you some if you want, but it's not worth my time or yours ;-)
Jul 28 18:22:58 <Stroller> CaptObviousman: it was because you said that you didn't care if FIC made no money
Jul 28 18:23:00 * CaptObviousman would still like to hear it
Jul 28 18:23:09 <CaptObviousman> post 'em to my talk page and let's discuss
Jul 28 18:23:12 <linuxxr> theres nothing wrong with the multitudes
Jul 28 18:23:24 <Stroller> CaptObviousman: FIC making money (out of openmoko / the Freerunner) is the only reason for OPEN hardware
Jul 28 18:23:24 <CaptObviousman> look, if my views on open source are harmful or incorrect, I'll change them. I just want someone to show me
Jul 28 18:23:25 <railer> so now to create a simple making theme's I have to make 4 times?
Jul 28 18:23:27 <Chox> CaptObviousman: and I would have to make some asusmptions about you for which I have no justification at all.
Jul 28 18:23:40 <CaptObviousman> Chox: that's fine. We'll get to know each other
Jul 28 18:23:41 <donomo> railer: or pick a winning horse. its up to you
Jul 28 18:23:50 <Chox> CaptObviousman: so probably, I'd be talking crap ;-)   
Jul 28 18:23:51 <CaptObviousman> I don't suppose you're near Dallas are you? We can talk at a pub over an ale
Jul 28 18:23:58 <donomo> after seeing FSO, my money is on that one
Jul 28 18:24:07 * Chox is in San Diego, FWIW
Jul 28 18:24:08 <linuxxr> any mandrivia uasers here?
Jul 28 18:24:11 <CaptObviousman> nuts
Jul 28 18:24:16 <donomo> linuxxr: not since 1999
Jul 28 18:24:20 <Chox> linuxxr: dammit, don't add another distro to the war.
Jul 28 18:24:24 <railer> the easiest way to pick a winning horse is to just let one horse start.
Jul 28 18:24:25 <linuxxr> theres my point
Jul 28 18:24:27 * donomo laughs
Jul 28 18:24:39 <donomo> railer: haha. true, but thats a boring race to watch
Jul 28 18:24:52 <CaptObviousman> you have no say over which horse that way
Jul 28 18:25:04 <zedstar_> i am still not convinced with the multiple stacks/distros/images whatever u wanna call them....it has alienated some good programmers from here ive noticed already
Jul 28 18:25:07 <linuxxr> mandrivia is just a joke
Jul 28 18:25:15 <Chox> quick, someone make a car anaology
Jul 28 18:25:20 <donomo> railer: if the grocery store only made one breakfast cereal, that cereal would be the best tasting, most efficient cereal in the world.
Jul 28 18:25:21 <railer> well yes you do, just build what your build for the SAME horse
Jul 28 18:25:25 <CaptObviousman> it's like a car with four wheels an a windshield
Jul 28 18:25:35 <CaptObviousman> someone's gotta paint the doors!
Jul 28 18:25:39 <CaptObviousman> there's like, four doors, or something
Jul 28 18:25:42 <CaptObviousman> that's a lot of work
Jul 28 18:25:50 <linuxxr> lets build a linux electric car with a generator trailer
Jul 28 18:25:53 <Rigolo> an efficient cereal???
Jul 28 18:25:54 <Chox> apart fror the cars which have 2, 3 or 6 wheels.
Jul 28 18:26:03 <donomo> Rigolo: heehee. i should have added :) at the end
Jul 28 18:26:08 <CaptObviousman> what about hatchbacks?
Jul 28 18:26:15 <CaptObviousman> buses?
Jul 28 18:26:22 <Chox> hm, plan foiled.
Jul 28 18:26:27 <Rigolo> CaptObviousman: o nooo ... a fifth door in a hatchback
Jul 28 18:26:28 <CaptObviousman> anyways
Jul 28 18:26:41 <Chox> so, point is.  Not everyone wants or requires the same distro.
Jul 28 18:26:59 <CaptObviousman> what first got me curious was when SpeedEvil backed LGPL libs, and I assumed he meant over GPL libs
Jul 28 18:27:00 <Rigolo> Chox ... distro or basic set of apps?
Jul 28 18:27:14 <CaptObviousman> is that because FIC wants to leave the door open to produce proprietary programs in the future?
Jul 28 18:27:18 <CaptObviousman> after the legwork's been completed I mean
Jul 28 18:27:28 <Chox> Rigolo: I think I'd prefer to avoid generalisations.  there are plenty of examples both ways.
Jul 28 18:27:34 <linuxxr> so they can
Jul 28 18:27:45 * Rigolo likes the openwrt approach .... basically give you a system that starts .... and then you can add whatever you like
Jul 28 18:27:51 <linuxxr> using your code
Jul 28 18:28:10 <donomo> Rigolo: reminds me of those build-your-own-teddybear shops
Jul 28 18:28:12 <Chox> Rigolo: OpenMoko is prety close to that.  just needs a bit of user control.
Jul 28 18:28:22 <CaptObviousman> yeah, I think we bashed the consolidate-on-one-distro idea to death
Jul 28 18:28:39 <Rigolo> Chox: well ... the default install still had "too much" apps installed at the moment then
Jul 28 18:28:40 <donomo> sort of like the PC LOAD LETTER printer in Office Space
Jul 28 18:28:49 <CaptObviousman> that being said
Jul 28 18:28:51 <railer> no it's not, the cereal analogy is wrong, it's like saying we have kellogs and they have 90% of the market and we have less than 10% and will lose more because we all want to make our own cereal, instead of all concentrating on making a single good cereal to compete, we get repetition and petty in fighting while kellogs slowly sucks up the rest of the market
Jul 28 18:28:52 * donomo is here to provide analogies
Jul 28 18:29:08 <linuxxr> loads of linux started with slackware    suse for instance
Jul 28 18:29:11 * CaptObviousman requests an anology to beer
Jul 28 18:29:15 <Rigolo> take the 2007.02 22th july image .... loads of games ... that is overkill to me
Jul 28 18:29:21 <donomo> railer: my point is kellogs will never have 90% of the market because different people like different foods
Jul 28 18:29:22 * CaptObviousman puts in a vote for slackware
Jul 28 18:29:23 <linuxxr> so what if they sell it
Jul 28 18:29:35 <linuxxr> vector is to
Jul 28 18:29:41 <CaptObviousman> on a slightly different topic
Jul 28 18:29:45 <donomo> railer: my point is also too broad to have any meaning whatsoever.
Jul 28 18:29:51 <railer> 4 5 6 distro's for 1 phones = welcome to the world of iphone and blackberry
Jul 28 18:29:55 <CaptObviousman> are there people you know that maybe purchased a FreeRunner and now regret it
Jul 28 18:30:01 <Chox> IME, people who make broad generalisations like that don't have anything to add to the matter except more of them.  No specific resolutions to perceived problems.
Jul 28 18:30:02 <CaptObviousman> specifically people with the US-style handsets?
Jul 28 18:30:08 * CaptObviousman wants to buy one, but can't afford $370
Jul 28 18:30:16 <Rigolo> that is why I think FSO or SHR are the real way forward ... best of both world, pick what you want
Jul 28 18:30:24 <CaptObviousman> what is SHR?
Jul 28 18:30:31 <Chox> fiction, right now
Jul 28 18:30:33 <Rigolo> Stable Hybrid Release
Jul 28 18:30:36 <CaptObviousman> ok
Jul 28 18:30:39 <linuxxr> the dev stage needs many angles otherwise its not gonna get any better
Jul 28 18:30:43 <zedstar_> im curious as to what happened with 2007.2 as openmoko were paying people at openedhand to work on that at some point...they have professional gtk staff...i notice at least one regular disappeared from irc since
Jul 28 18:30:50 <Sargun> God, I've been building this ASU image for 2 days.
Jul 28 18:30:56 <railer> CaptObviousman FR are currently bought by ONLY programming freaks, no public SHOULD now or most likely EVER but a FR
Jul 28 18:31:06 <CaptObviousman> what do you think I am
Jul 28 18:31:08 <Chox> so shout!
Jul 28 18:31:14 <Sargun> Shout!
Jul 28 18:31:17 <Bubbi> have anyone tried to use the "finger-keyboard" application on the neo..?
Jul 28 18:31:20 <donomo> CaptObviousman: for a while i was regretting it. the less than 1 day batter life is painful
Jul 28 18:31:23 * CaptObviousman also shouts, why are we shouting again?
Jul 28 18:31:25 <Chox> plenty of non-programmers bought the FR knowing full well what is it.
Jul 28 18:31:25 <zedstar_> so openmoko pay professional people to work on various areas...did they stop payment to openhand on projects or what happened in this area?
Jul 28 18:31:28 * Rigolo is no programming freak .... does not even know C
Jul 28 18:31:30 <CaptObviousman> it's not going to be my daily phone
Jul 28 18:31:41 <CaptObviousman> I'm going to get a pay-as-you-go account for it so I won't have to spend much
Jul 28 18:31:50 <railer> Rigolo, you know linux?
Jul 28 18:32:04 <CaptObviousman> I really, truly, want to get involved in this project, because I believe it will be incredibly helpful to crack open the mostly-proprietary cell phone market
Jul 28 18:32:08 <donomo> Stable Hybrid Release? anoter image? omg.
Jul 28 18:32:19 <railer> and how many other languages do you know?
Jul 28 18:32:19 <CaptObviousman> not everyone can afford a computer, but most everyone in developed and developing nations has access to a cell phone
Jul 28 18:32:24 <linuxxr> im not a programmer or a freak   an i have 1
Jul 28 18:32:27 <CaptObviousman> you were talking about hearts and minds earlier? This is a great way
Jul 28 18:32:28 <linuxxr> :)
Jul 28 18:32:29 <Rigolo> railer: yep, going back to redhat on x floppies, slack, LFS, gentoo ubuntu
Jul 28 18:32:55 <CaptObviousman> plus I'll learn a lot
Jul 28 18:32:59 <Rigolo> railer: linux is not a langue .... :-)
Jul 28 18:33:06 <CaptObviousman> so, that being said
Jul 28 18:33:09 <Sargun> Gentoo rocks
Jul 28 18:33:09 <CaptObviousman> any sugar daddies in the house?
Jul 28 18:33:38 <railer> Rigolo do your friends eye role into the backs of their heads every time you start talking about linux?
Jul 28 18:33:45 <linuxxr> yep all those tutorials for diff flavors of linux realy do take alot of time   so wheres the slacl tutorial?;)
Jul 28 18:33:57 <linuxxr> slack
Jul 28 18:34:02 * Rigolo know at least knows that a 2.8" screen is too small for a phone with no keyboard
Jul 28 18:34:08 <railer> "Rigolo: railer: linux is not a langue ...." - that you would say that means you're a freak
Jul 28 18:34:11 <CaptObviousman> linuxxr: slackwiki.org and slackbook.org
Jul 28 18:34:18 <CaptObviousman> I know you were being facetious, but there you go
Jul 28 18:34:18 <Rigolo> railer: not really ... they have given up already ;-)
Jul 28 18:34:20 <Bubbi> How do you install a python application on the neo..? I'm reading about the finger-keyboard application (http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/finger-keyboard/) and was wondering if it was easy to try it.. :)
Jul 28 18:34:21 * SpeedEvil passes Rigolo a bluetooth thoughtboard.
Jul 28 18:34:28 <linuxxr> no the openmoko 1
Jul 28 18:35:04 <railer> I don't come here for the linux. I'm here for the CHICKS!
Jul 28 18:35:16 <Bubbi> railer: get in line..
Jul 28 18:35:20 * donomo hands railer some eggs
Jul 28 18:35:24 <CaptObviousman> Get the rope
Jul 28 18:35:32 <Rigolo> mmm a thoughtboard .... how do you interface with that ... like that other bluetooth device we talked about earlier ... then never mind :-)
Jul 28 18:35:56 <railer> anyone in this chat room is a freak, trust me on this one.
Jul 28 18:36:05 <donomo> railer: amen to that
Jul 28 18:37:04 <Chox> ooh, we frying up breakfast?
Jul 28 18:37:17 * Rigolo just finished dinner
Jul 28 18:37:25 <Chox> lunchtime here, almost
Jul 28 18:37:49 <Wonka> Mo 28. Jul 20:37:48 CEST 2008
Jul 28 18:38:02 <Chox> you're French now? ;-)
Jul 28 18:38:14 <Wonka> german.
Jul 28 18:38:25 <Chox> C'est la vie
Jul 28 18:39:52 <SamuraiDio> hi all
Jul 28 18:41:57 * CaptObviousman gets busy finishing up another project so he can migrate to OM
Jul 28 18:42:27 <ChaosEagle> hi there =)
Jul 28 18:42:34 <doc|work> so, has anyone gotten a response from sales@openmoko.com in the last .... well, ever?
Jul 28 18:42:35 <CaptObviousman> greetings
Jul 28 18:42:41 <Zorkman> llo
Jul 28 18:42:57 <ChaosEagle> could anyone help me booting from a vfat+ext2 sd card on my freerunner?
Jul 28 18:43:05 <kelvie_work> doc|work: I have, the last few times I've emailed them
Jul 28 18:43:14 <doc|work> kelvie_work: how long did it usually take?
Jul 28 18:43:18 <Zorkman> i *think* i could, but others are better than me :)
Jul 28 18:43:28 <ChaosEagle> Zorkman: Problem is this:
Jul 28 18:43:35 <ChaosEagle> kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(179,2)
Jul 28 18:43:46 <Zorkman> first of all: did you follow the wiki?
Jul 28 18:43:48 <kelvie_work> doc|work: 2-4 days or so?
Jul 28 18:43:48 <Chox> ChaosEagle: you don't need the vfat partition.  uboot can go straight from ext2/3
Jul 28 18:43:54 <ChaosEagle> i pretty much followed the instructions on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD
Jul 28 18:44:01 <doc|work> kelvie_work: I've heard nothing in over a week, following 3 emails
Jul 28 18:44:10 <Chox> then you specified the wrong root device to the kernel command line
Jul 28 18:44:20 <ChaosEagle> really Chox? I thought only very recent uboots can do that, and the one on buildhost is from march...
Jul 28 18:44:29 <Chox> ...yes.
Jul 28 18:44:29 <ChaosEagle> Okay... then how do I fix it? ;)
Jul 28 18:44:31 <Chox> you should updated
Jul 28 18:44:33 <Chox> update.
Jul 28 18:44:43 <ChaosEagle> where do I get the images then?
Jul 28 18:44:49 <Chox> probably you want to make sure you said /dev/mmcblk0p2
Jul 28 18:45:00 <peter__b> hi guys
Jul 28 18:45:13 <Chox> the buildhost ones are recent.
Jul 28 18:45:15 <Chox> and good.
Jul 28 18:45:19 <Zorkman> ChaosEagle: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080727/uboot-gta02v5-latest.bin
Jul 28 18:45:32 <peter__b> anyon an idea how to setup apmd to make asu suspend after some minutes?
Jul 28 18:45:32 <ChaosEagle> yes, but they are still 1.3.1 images
Jul 28 18:45:33 <SamuraiDio> how much the freerunner bateries stays up, while in standby, and hearing music, by example?
Jul 28 18:45:44 <ChaosEagle> flashed one yesterday, still says March 08
Jul 28 18:45:52 <Chox> then get a newer one :o
Jul 28 18:46:03 <ChaosEagle> newer than yesterday? ;)
Jul 28 18:46:05 <Zorkman> ChaosEagle: your probably booted into NOR, then it will always say march 08
Jul 28 18:46:16 <Zorkman> ChaosEagle: boot in NAND and you will se a more recent date
Jul 28 18:46:17 <ChaosEagle> oh... okay
Jul 28 18:46:26 <ChaosEagle> and... erm... how? ^^;;;
Jul 28 18:46:37 <Zorkman> ChaosEagle: press and hold power, then press and hold aux
Jul 28 18:46:45 <Zorkman> NAND will come up
Jul 28 18:47:01 <Zorkman> (then you can also try the boot from SD option, maybe it works right away :))
Jul 28 18:47:27 <ChaosEagle> how long do I have to hold these?
Jul 28 18:47:36 <Chox> few seconds.  says on the wiki.
Jul 28 18:47:42 <ChaosEagle> oh, got it :)
Jul 28 18:47:59 <ChaosEagle> lol
Jul 28 18:48:03 <ChaosEagle> works, thanks! :D
Jul 28 18:48:10 <ChaosEagle> oh, no
Jul 28 18:48:13 <ChaosEagle> it doesn't.
Jul 28 18:48:14 <Chox> oh noes!
Jul 28 18:48:15 <Zorkman> :D
Jul 28 18:48:18 <ChaosEagle> ;)
Jul 28 18:48:23 <Chox> "doesn't work"
Jul 28 18:48:48 <ChaosEagle> mhh...
Jul 28 18:48:52 <ChaosEagle> same error message
Jul 28 18:49:02 <ChaosEagle> so, how do i change the menu item for nand?
Jul 28 18:49:03 <Chox> and same answer I gave earlier
Jul 28 18:49:04 <peter__b> no one with a self suspending asu ?
Jul 28 18:49:12 <Zorkman> ChaosEagle: is your rootfs partition ext3 or ext2?
Jul 28 18:49:19 <ChaosEagle> ext3
Jul 28 18:49:27 <Chox> read the uboot stuff on the wiki. Yes, I know it's awful.
Jul 28 18:49:28 <Zorkman> then you will have to modify the uboot first
Jul 28 18:49:35 <ChaosEagle> argh, no
Jul 28 18:49:36 <ChaosEagle> >_<
Jul 28 18:49:37 <Zorkman> if you don't want all those troubles:
Jul 28 18:49:43 <ChaosEagle> it's ext2 -.-
Jul 28 18:49:45 <ChaosEagle> stupid me.
Jul 28 18:50:11 <Zorkman> then you should do what chox told you
Jul 28 18:50:24 <Zorkman> i did fat & ext2 and it worked without modifying uboot
Jul 28 18:50:34 <ChaosEagle> well, as I said, i updatet the uboot yesterday (I think)
Jul 28 18:50:49 <Chox> round and round in circles we go :p
Jul 28 18:50:52 <ChaosEagle> you do update uboot by booting into NOR, right? ;)
Jul 28 18:51:09 <Chox> you can udated uboot from either.
Jul 28 18:51:12 <Chox> er, update
Jul 28 18:51:17 <ChaosEagle> okay
Jul 28 18:51:25 <ChaosEagle> so basically, update again to todays version?
Jul 28 18:51:29 <Chox> sigh
Jul 28 18:51:44 * Chox suggests reading more, and typing less.
Jul 28 18:52:31 <ChaosEagle> instead of that witty comment, you could have typed something helpful
Jul 28 18:52:36 <ChaosEagle> :P
Jul 28 18:52:44 <Chox> certainly. I did some minutes ago, but it got drowned out.
Jul 28 18:53:19 <ChaosEagle> Chox: Sorry, you wrote a lot of things - which one exactly are you referring to now?
Jul 28 18:53:51 <donomo> the ext3 support seems more hastle that its worth. is the internal flashram image really that important to preserve? 
Jul 28 18:53:55 <Chox> I wrote a lot of things to couner the verbiage you wrote.  Unfortunately, at this point, ?I have other things to do.
Jul 28 18:54:12 <ChaosEagle> okay, thanks anyway...
Jul 28 18:54:19 <donomo> dualbooting a phone sounds cool sort of how a beowulf cluster sounds cool. noone does it :)
Jul 28 18:54:36 <Chox> donomo: I have no idea what argument you're making.
Jul 28 18:54:40 <Zorkman> donomo: i do it :p
Jul 28 18:54:49 <donomo> Zorkman: lol. props to you, man.
Jul 28 18:54:53 <Chox> Debian doesn't fit in interal flash.  
Jul 28 18:55:04 <donomo> Chox: i make smalltalk instead of arguments. :)
Jul 28 18:55:35 <donomo> Chox: interesting. the whole thing? i thought people were using a stripped down version.
Jul 28 18:55:45 <ChaosEagle> so, anyone less busy here to help me instead of pushing his own ego? ;)
Jul 28 18:55:58 <Chox> they are.  it's still a squeeze in the 512MB SD card.
Jul 28 18:56:02 <Zorkman> ChaosEagle: Chox actually did try to help you
Jul 28 18:56:19 <Zorkman> ChaosEagle: [22:43] <Chox> then you specified the wrong root device to the kernel command line
Jul 28 18:56:26 <ChaosEagle> Zorkman: I KNOW, but it really didn't help me much, unfortunately
Jul 28 18:56:32 <AntonTakk> hrm
Jul 28 18:56:42 <Zorkman> ChaosEagle: just try to follow the wiki *once again*
Jul 28 18:56:47 <Chox> ChaosEagle: indeed, cos you ignored it, and told us some unrelated stuff, insated of asking how to do it.
Jul 28 18:56:49 <ChaosEagle> Zorkman: Now THAT'S more helpful than "read more, type less", thanks :)
Jul 28 18:56:58 <Zorkman> i would recommend using the fat and ext2, that way you do not have to edit uboot
Jul 28 18:57:13 <donomo> Zorkman: what two images do you have
Jul 28 18:57:14 <ChaosEagle> Sorry, but it's kinda hard to filter out the important bits when multiple people are suggesting different things...
Jul 28 18:57:24 * Chox helps a lot of people.  Perhaps more than anyone here; if you are going to overwhelm me with verbiage, and not follow my advice, I can't help others.
Jul 28 18:57:41 <AntonTakk> i wonder how hard it would be, if at all, to have the fr present it's fs over usb mass storage
Jul 28 18:57:46 <Chox> actually, most of the suggestions were yours :o
Jul 28 18:57:51 <Zorkman> ChaosEagle: you'll get used to chox's way of helpong people, he spends a lot of time helping people, but you have to listen (don't worry, I suck at it too :))
Jul 28 18:57:52 <AntonTakk> *if at all possible*
Jul 28 18:57:52 <ChaosEagle> Chox: Hey, no offense...
Jul 28 18:58:12 <Chox> not offended, just reality.
Jul 28 18:58:15 <ChaosEagle> It's just not easy if you're new to this whole uboot-business, you know.
Jul 28 18:58:17 <Zorkman> ChaosEagle: kernel : http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080727/uImage-om-gta02-latest.bin
Jul 28 18:58:34 <Chox> I do know.  and I know the wiki sucks on the matter.  
Jul 28 18:58:42 <Zorkman> (what do you want to install on the sd, ASU or 2007.2?)
Jul 28 18:58:50 <ChaosEagle> Zorkman: ASU
Jul 28 18:58:50 <weatherhead> AntonTakk: I'm no expert, but I tried something similar with embedded linux, and it seems non trivial
Jul 28 18:59:03 <Zorkman> ChaosEagle: rootfs: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080722/Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080722-om-gta02.rootfs.tar.gz
Jul 28 18:59:35 <Chox> weatherhead: such things can be.  But in priciple, there's no reason why it has to be.  these processes can be made real easy
Jul 28 18:59:37 <ChaosEagle> Yep, got the kernel on the vfat partition and the rootfs on the ext2
Jul 28 18:59:49 <Zorkman> indeed
Jul 28 18:59:56 <AntonTakk> weatherhead: figures, thou since any decent os can browse it's fs in a file manager over sftp, i guess it doesn't really matter  :)
Jul 28 18:59:58 <Zorkman> but just to make sure do everything on the wiki again,
Jul 28 19:00:03 <ChaosEagle> *nods*
Jul 28 19:00:19 <Zorkman> first delete your partitions in fdisk: d   1   d  w)
Jul 28 19:00:27 <weatherhead> Chox, AntonTakk: I meant in the sense of being able to replace rootfs etc 
Jul 28 19:00:50 <Chox> weatherhead: you'll have to be a lot more specific.
Jul 28 19:01:01 <Zorkman> weatherhead: I don't see why in the future there can't be an app that does all that automatically, that makes for instance your device a triple boot
Jul 28 19:01:27 <weatherhead> I'm just assuming that you'd need some kind of driver to expose the file system over USB
Jul 28 19:01:39 <Chox> uboot isn't part of the filesystem
Jul 28 19:01:44 <kd8ikt> wont booting from sd be slow as heck
Jul 28 19:02:15 <Chox> well, it kind of could be, but it's not in the usual sense.
Jul 28 19:02:25 <Chox> it's perfectly possible to update it from within Linux.
Jul 28 19:02:42 <kd8ikt> i'm afraid to check my mail (yesterday i signed up for all the openmoko mailing lists)
Jul 28 19:02:52 <Zorkman> lol :)
Jul 28 19:03:11 <kd8ikt> mailbomb
Jul 28 19:04:04 <Zorkman> kd8ikt: i can't say so for sure, but i have booted the ASU from SD and from internal and it doesn't *seem* much slower on the SD, but i didn't time it....
Jul 28 19:04:22 <Chox> it doubt it's very different.
Jul 28 19:04:41 <kd8ikt> oh god 113 mails
Jul 28 19:04:49 <Chox> hdparm if you want to find out.
Jul 28 19:05:07 <Yashy> kd8ikt: sign up for a gmail or other disposible account just for the mailing lists :)
Jul 28 19:05:10 <doc|work> kd8ikt: ctrl-a, delete, ctrl-e
Jul 28 19:05:28 <Sargun> Any ideas during mokomakefile: NOTE: Task failed: Unknown fetch Error: [Errno 20] Not a directory: '/home/xbmodder/openmoko/mokomakefile/sources/git/anongit.freedesktop.org.git.packagekit/813fa8cfb139246cf180d52895b52b28616ae2f5/git/backends/yum/helpers/packagekit'
Jul 28 19:07:16 <AntonTakk> anyone know if there are docs on making asu suspend?
Jul 28 19:09:31 <Yashy> doc|work: How are things? Heading over to the mainland in a week or two if you wanna grab a drink or something
Jul 28 19:10:33 <Chox> Kanuckistantians :o
Jul 28 19:15:12 <Zorkman> ChaosEagle: if it working?
Jul 28 19:15:15 <Zorkman> *is
Jul 28 19:16:31 <ChaosEagle> Zorkman: Working on it ;)
Jul 28 19:16:47 <ChaosEagle> right now, I'm repopulating the newly created ext3 (yes, 3) FS ^^
Jul 28 19:17:17 <Zorkman> ok, just remember if you do ext3 you will probably have to edit the u-boot...
Jul 28 19:17:43 <ChaosEagle> hmm, I thought it was the other way round?
Jul 28 19:17:51 <ChaosEagle> Ext3 is default, ext2 was added later?
Jul 28 19:19:20 <Zorkman> nope, i told yor :p
Jul 28 19:19:24 <Zorkman> *you
Jul 28 19:19:32 <cjb> boggle.  I can't figure out how to send uppercase letters in SMS.
Jul 28 19:19:44 <Zorkman> if you look in the NAND u-boot you also see standard "Boot from microSD (FAT+ext2)
Jul 28 19:19:51 <ChaosEagle> hmm, weird - the kernel says it's trying ext3 and thus fails
Jul 28 19:20:00 <kd8ikt> whoah anyopne read that email "Openmoko on Design"
Jul 28 19:20:04 <cjb> I hit the uppercase button in the keyboard and it doesn't do anything
Jul 28 19:20:22 <Zorkman> ChaosEagle: could that not be when you tried starting it from NOR boot?
Jul 28 19:20:40 <ChaosEagle> nope, happend when starting from NAND
Jul 28 19:20:41 <Zorkman> cjb: hit i like you mean it
Jul 28 19:21:08 <Zorkman> ChaosEagle: I can only tell you what mly uboot (jul 28 2008) tells me and how I did it
Jul 28 19:21:18 <Stroller> kd8ikt: yeah. What did you think about it?
Jul 28 19:21:28 <Zorkman> kd8ikt: me too
Jul 28 19:21:39 <kd8ikt> i think i've been a bad panda
Jul 28 19:21:44 <doc|work> Yashy: sure, give me a shout. Over for long?
Jul 28 19:21:50 <ChaosEagle> Zorkman: Yeah, thank you for that :)
Jul 28 19:22:14 <ChaosEagle> Zorkman: But now it works, booting from NAND with ext3 on the sd for the rootfs :)
Jul 28 19:22:24 * Stroller has been suffering sarcastic private emails for bitching about the "openness" of the decision to remove the keyboard button from ASU
Jul 28 19:22:33 <ChaosEagle> thanks for your help, everyone :)
Jul 28 19:22:59 <Zorkman> ChaosEagle: np, i have had to ask a million questions and am thankfull for the help I got (and hopefully will get :))
Jul 28 19:23:01 <kd8ikt> oh yea i've been a baaad panda
Jul 28 19:23:06 <Zorkman> congrats ChaosEagle!
Jul 28 19:23:28 <ChaosEagle> thanks :)
Jul 28 19:23:45 <ChaosEagle> phew, ASU looks a lot nicer now than the last time I tried it =)
Jul 28 19:23:48 <kd8ikt> in other news i got my dev environment working it seems <mokomakefile is still chuggin away>
Jul 28 19:24:30 <kd8ikt> with no end in sight
Jul 28 19:26:52 <Bubbi> what are people working on for openmoko atm..?
Jul 28 19:27:06 <Bubbi> people = all of you :)
Jul 28 19:27:29 <bagpuss_thecat> 20:25 -!- Irssi: New peak in #openmoko@opn : 429
Jul 28 19:27:31 <bagpuss_thecat> \o/
Jul 28 19:27:46 <Zorkman> me: trying not to pose too many questions so the people can get on with their work :)
Jul 28 19:27:50 <kd8ikt> i've been itching to do some accellerometer stuff
Jul 28 19:30:12 <ChaosEagle> Well, I'm off, playing with ASU =)
Jul 28 19:30:14 <ChaosEagle> See you later guys, and thanks again =)
Jul 28 19:30:25 <Zorkman> bye
Jul 28 19:31:11 <Bubbi> kd8ikt: That sounds cool :) I'm still just trying to understand the entire concept of the freerunner and openmoko. I would very much like to help out in everything, but I'm not very experienced with Linux yet
Jul 28 19:41:50 <AntonTakk> i need to take the front off my fr tonight and see about putting a screen protector over the screen
Jul 28 19:42:11 <linuxxr> gotta be sneaky
Jul 28 19:42:24 <AntonTakk> how so?
Jul 28 19:42:45 <TAsn> AntonTakk, i think he was joking... 
Jul 28 19:42:48 <linuxxr> i put mine on from the outside
Jul 28 19:43:17 <TAsn> anyhow please document what you did and how or more important the pitfalls you encountered...
Jul 28 19:43:42 <AntonTakk> linuxxr: i want the entire visible area of the screen covered so it doesn't collect dust at the edges - means the screen protector has to be a bit larger than the screen, so the front needs to come off
Jul 28 19:43:57 <linuxxr> i was going to try with a silgkt spray of soapy water
Jul 28 19:44:12 <linuxxr> slight
Jul 28 19:44:30 <AntonTakk> TAsn: like: WARNING: never drink liquids, read funny stuff, and open your freerunner at the same time!
Jul 28 19:44:38 <linuxxr> then i got scared
Jul 28 19:44:38 <SpeedEvil> there is no need for any solution if you just put the protector on under teh case.
Jul 28 19:44:42 <SpeedEvil> It's easy to do.
Jul 28 19:44:57 <SpeedEvil> (if the protector is large enough)
Jul 28 19:45:09 <linuxxr> cut your own?
Jul 28 19:45:14 <AntonTakk> SpeedEvil: that's what i figured - and i got some half decent protectors from best buy that you cut to size  :)
Jul 28 19:45:17 <TAsn> SpeedEvil, is the fr protector from zaag big enough?
Jul 28 19:45:20 <Chox> http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/08/07/28/1615233.shtml
Jul 28 19:45:32 <SpeedEvil> TAsn: I have no idea - I know the one I've been pushing is.
Jul 28 19:45:51 <TAsn> SpeedEvil, where did you get that one from?
Jul 28 19:46:07 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Shop:Speedevil
Jul 28 19:46:08 <kd8ikt> buy one from SpeedEvil 
Jul 28 19:46:14 <kd8ikt> ;)
Jul 28 19:46:36 <kd8ikt> i might buy one and a cap bag someday SpeedEvil 
Jul 28 19:46:36 <AntonTakk> need to make sure i can get the protector on w/o getting bubbles under it thou
Jul 28 19:46:38 <Stroller> Chox: cool! I wanna get a really small bluetooth headset, have it sprayed like that and have it implanted under my skin.
Jul 28 19:46:38 <SpeedEvil> Mine are hand-crafted by vampires.
Jul 28 19:46:45 <kd8ikt> heh
Jul 28 19:46:46 <Chox> nice.
Jul 28 19:46:51 <cjb> hm, I took my moko on a bike ride and it ran out of battery after <3 hours, with the GPS running
Jul 28 19:46:54 * Chox hasn't read the article, like most slashdotters
Jul 28 19:47:01 * Stroller either
Jul 28 19:47:05 <SpeedEvil> AntonTakk: the silicone gel backed protectors can be easily removed and replaced - you can lift them easily if you get a bubble.
Jul 28 19:47:17 <SpeedEvil> cjb: neo/fr?
Jul 28 19:47:18 <kd8ikt> cjb:  was anything else running? wifi? bluetooth?
Jul 28 19:47:20 <linuxxr> with the batt out an the front off  i might give  that a try
Jul 28 19:47:20 <cjb> SpeedEvil: FR
Jul 28 19:47:26 <cjb> kd8ikt: hm, maybe wifi
Jul 28 19:47:34 <cjb> not bluetooth.  the wifi wasn't associated, of course.
Jul 28 19:47:36 <SpeedEvil> cjb: just logging, or tango?
Jul 28 19:47:39 <cjb> tango
Jul 28 19:47:51 <cjb> I think maybe the tango redrawing sucks battery
Jul 28 19:47:53 <SpeedEvil> cjb: I think I get >3h with neo.
Jul 28 19:48:01 <kd8ikt> i could see the wifi eating juice like none other
Jul 28 19:48:05 <SpeedEvil> cjb: I'll need to look at some logs.
Jul 28 19:48:12 <cjb> kd8ikt: only while associated, I'd think
Jul 28 19:48:16 <kd8ikt> i checked my kernel logs and it seems like wifi is always making noise
Jul 28 19:48:22 <SpeedEvil> cjb: not really
Jul 28 19:48:32 <SpeedEvil> cjb: just listening it uses a fair wack of power.
Jul 28 19:48:34 <AntonTakk> SpeedEvil: these have no gell at all, but a sheet of plastic
Jul 28 19:48:41 <cjb> anyway, I wonder if I should try and carry two batteries, I have a Neo battery too
Jul 28 19:48:41 <SpeedEvil> AntonTakk: ah.
Jul 28 19:48:42 <kd8ikt> cause wpa_supplicant for example likes to constantly search 
Jul 28 19:48:54 <cjb> but then I need something that can hold power while I switch out the batteries
Jul 28 19:49:10 <kd8ikt> a solar hat
Jul 28 19:49:15 <linuxxr> u spray something on them?
Jul 28 19:49:29 <TAsn> SpeedEvil, now that's interesting
Jul 28 19:49:45 <TAsn> how much does it cost to get your protector shipped?
Jul 28 19:49:48 <SpeedEvil> $5
Jul 28 19:49:51 <SpeedEvil> total
Jul 28 19:50:03 <TAsn> with worldwide shipment?!
Jul 28 19:50:23 <SpeedEvil> yes
Jul 28 19:50:32 <TAsn> sounds cheap :)
Jul 28 19:50:38 <SpeedEvil> Cheap and works.
Jul 28 19:51:00 <TAsn> i c, well i will need to get paypal first :)
Jul 28 19:51:01 <AntonTakk> hrm
Jul 28 19:51:08 <lindi-> protector?
Jul 28 19:51:40 <linuxxr> wat if u want a 10 pack
Jul 28 19:51:50 <cjb> I guess I could get my bike to charge my cell
Jul 28 19:51:59 <cjb> but I don't want a large loss of efficiency
Jul 28 19:52:03 <TAsn> cjb, sure you can.
Jul 28 19:52:11 <cjb> already somewhat inefficient due to hybrid tires
Jul 28 19:52:18 <TAsn> hybrid tires?
Jul 28 19:52:20 <TAsn> what's that?
Jul 28 19:52:32 <TAsn> offroad and on road?
Jul 28 19:52:43 <TAsn> something in the middle that is ?
Jul 28 19:53:41 <cjb> road tires are very thin and high psi, mountain bike tires are very thick and have knobbly things that increase traction but cause friction
Jul 28 19:53:55 <cjb> hybrid tires are wider than road tires with occasional knobbly things.
Jul 28 19:54:18 <cjb> (and run at more like 60psi, compared to 120psi for road tires, with corresponding loss of efficiency.)
Jul 28 19:54:36 <railer> hey what's the stroy on bluetooth? anyone here about headsets yet?
Jul 28 19:55:44 <kd8ikt> hear
Jul 28 19:55:50 <kd8ikt> ?
Jul 28 19:56:27 <linuxxr> wheres chocky when u need him
Jul 28 19:57:04 <linuxxr> anybody irc on the freerunner yet?
Jul 28 19:57:22 <linuxxr> who here is on a freerunner
Jul 28 19:57:31 <linuxxr> dangit
Jul 28 19:58:01 <kd8ikt> i sorta did via ssh
Jul 28 19:58:18 <linuxxr> cool
Jul 28 19:58:33 <kd8ikt> only that lil keyboard isnt fun to use
Jul 28 19:58:40 <mmaestri> linuxxr: I was, a few times. using pidgin, irssi, from the fr and ssh'ed
Jul 28 19:58:49 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07zhone * raf08880580c4 10/src/zhone: Enable GPS position graph since jan found out it does work
Jul 28 19:59:02 <linuxxr> u got minimo working?
Jul 28 19:59:25 <linuxxr> i keep whippin out the mouse somehow
Jul 28 19:59:27 <mmaestri> linuxxr: yes, but is slow
Jul 28 19:59:27 <railer> wow I didn't know so many grade school spelling teachers were openmoko users
Jul 28 20:00:03 <linuxxr> can't figure out how to lose the mouse
Jul 28 20:00:57 <Chox> who needs abuse?
Jul 28 20:01:06 <Chox> besides me, that is.
Jul 28 20:01:38 <mmaestri> Chox: me. I little. wanna try debian
Jul 28 20:01:41 <mmaestri> :p
Jul 28 20:01:57 * Chox is trying Debian.  That's abuse aplenty.
Jul 28 20:02:27 <Zorkman> get ready for a really stupid question:
Jul 28 20:02:35 <mmaestri> Chox: how is going so far?
Jul 28 20:02:35 <Zorkman> hhow do i install bash?
Jul 28 20:02:45 <Tanuva> are there daily builds of the fso stack or just the milestone1-ones?
Jul 28 20:02:53 <Zorkman> i found a site which says i need libncurses, but opkg doesn't has that
Jul 28 20:03:13 <mmaestri> Zorkman: mmm...tried debian armel packages?
Jul 28 20:03:43 <CM> Tanuva: There's some unofficial ones here: http://totalueberwachung.de/~alphaone/openembedded-build/glibc/images/neo1973/?C=M;O=D
Jul 28 20:03:45 <Chox> slow.
Jul 28 20:03:54 <Chox> opkg install bash
Jul 28 20:03:55 <kd8ikt> Zorkman: bash is in the opkg repo
Jul 28 20:04:05 <Chox> then edit /etc/passwd
Jul 28 20:04:26 <CM> Tanuva: Assuming you have a FreeRunner (Thank alphaone for the builds)
Jul 28 20:04:36 <alphaone> will upload a new one in a sec
Jul 28 20:04:42 <mmaestri> Chox: that was my first choice, then he said something about libncurses, and...forget it
Jul 28 20:04:49 <Chox> er.
Jul 28 20:05:03 <Zeroedout> hey, any chance someone tried to get python-pygame on the freerunner?
Jul 28 20:05:06 <CM> alphaone: Nice. I just finished a gta01 build
Jul 28 20:05:07 <Zorkman> chox: opkg install bash doesn't work, returns error value 2
Jul 28 20:05:18 <kd8ikt> hm
Jul 28 20:05:18 <alphaone> CM: :-)
Jul 28 20:05:19 <Chox> opkg -force-depends remove ncurses
Jul 28 20:05:21 <Chox> "doesn't work"
Jul 28 20:05:49 <Zorkman> well, i specified the type of "doesn't work"...
Jul 28 20:05:57 <Chox> but not the details.
Jul 28 20:06:05 * Chox can't help you, othewise
Jul 28 20:06:10 <Zorkman> thanks anyway
Jul 28 20:06:13 <Tanuva> CM: thanks, gonna try that :)
Jul 28 20:06:18 <kd8ikt> what filesystem image are you using?
Jul 28 20:06:22 <Zorkman> 2007.2
Jul 28 20:06:27 <Zorkman> bash is included in ASU
Jul 28 20:06:38 <kd8ikt> hm cause it works for me
Jul 28 20:06:41 <Chox> "what browser are you using?" "Windows"
Jul 28 20:06:52 <Zorkman> sorry
Jul 28 20:07:01 <Zorkman> 2007.2 kernel 28/07 rootfs 22/07
Jul 28 20:07:08 <kd8ikt> i love bash's echo $RANDOM
Jul 28 20:07:20 * kd8ikt uses it for lotto numbers ;)
Jul 28 20:07:45 <mmaestri> perhaps adding the angstrom repo?
Jul 28 20:08:19 <kd8ikt> opkg install http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/bash_3.2-r5_armv4t.ipk
Jul 28 20:09:05 <Zorkman> mmaestri: i'llthanks kd8ikt, but how come when i ran "opkg list | grep bash" it didn't return anything?
Jul 28 20:09:12 <Chox> opkg update 
Jul 28 20:09:29 <Zorkman> Chox: i did the opkg update
Jul 28 20:09:31 <kd8ikt> yeah thats odd if it was updated and still no bash
Jul 28 20:09:33 <Chox> :o
Jul 28 20:10:02 <Zorkman> even after installing it i get nothing when i do "opkg list | grep bash"
Jul 28 20:10:10 <kd8ikt> you havent been messing with /etc/opkg/* stuff have ya?
Jul 28 20:10:30 <Zorkman> nope, i only do that on the ASU
Jul 28 20:10:45 <Zorkman> it was a clean install.... flashed it and booted it for the first time
Jul 28 20:11:26 <kd8ikt> weird
Jul 28 20:12:02 <Zorkman> anyway, it works now, so thanks everyone
Jul 28 20:12:42 <kd8ikt> i'm actually using the release jffs  but opkg/upgraded  +a beta kernel
Jul 28 20:12:49 <mmaestri> Zorkman: ...and how was that...? it just "worked"?
Jul 28 20:13:10 <kd8ikt> prolly why my suspend/resume is fubar
Jul 28 20:13:52 <kd8ikt> i got that link via my own opkg install bash
Jul 28 20:14:54 <Zorkman> mmaestri: it worked when i opkg'd with the link to the ipk file
Jul 28 20:15:04 <mmaestri> ah, ok
Jul 28 20:16:03 <kd8ikt> snds like your opkg conf /sources are messed
Jul 28 20:16:25 <kd8ikt> i could post my opkg configs for you 
Jul 28 20:16:35 <Zorkman> i rebooted the opkg and now it can find the bash file on its own...
Jul 28 20:16:54 <Zorkman> i removed the installed bash and when I run "opkg install bash" it also works withouth problems...
Jul 28 20:17:02 <Zorkman> i'm 100% sure i didn't touch my opkg folder
Jul 28 20:17:05 <kd8ikt> cool
Jul 28 20:17:57 <mmaestri> how's the status of FSO right now? someone tried it?
Jul 28 20:18:01 <Yashy> Any good URLs for building ipk files from application sources?
Jul 28 20:18:17 <mmaestri> Yashy: wiki
Jul 28 20:19:08 <Yashy> mmaestri: which wiki page? I tried to follow two, but both pages suck.
Jul 28 20:19:23 <Chox> who where which wiki?
Jul 28 20:19:31 <mmaestri> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain
Jul 28 20:19:39 <Chox> ah, it's time waster Yashy
Jul 28 20:20:47 <Yashy> mmaestri: Thanks, will give it a try (IIRC this was one I tried step by step and didn't work)
Jul 28 20:20:52 <Zorkman> is there a "nice" way to disable the tap-sound in 2007.2? the one I used was just renaming the tap-sound file...
Jul 28 20:22:01 * Chox laffs at "Wiki is a POS" thread on list.  so true.
Jul 28 20:22:31 * SpeedEvil passes out the 'so fix it' baseball bats.
Jul 28 20:22:41 * Chox haz bean.
Jul 28 20:22:43 <Quai> Zorkman: edit /etc/pulse/session, and comment out the line that starts with "load-sample touchscreen". Then run /etc/init.d/pulse restart
Jul 28 20:23:00 <Chox> but I see they've formed a committee.  bet that'll do lots. not.
Jul 28 20:23:02 <Zorkman> thanks!
Jul 28 20:23:33 <kd8ikt> yeah thats one of the first things i do Zorkman ;)
Jul 28 20:27:07 <CM> Hehe, nice error message from the openmoko-devel-image when failing to resume: http://www.acc.umu.se/~cm/naughy_programer.jpg
Jul 28 20:28:03 <malik1972> lpotter: ping
Jul 28 20:28:06 <Zeroedout> Hi, i'm trying to compile pygame for the freerunner, i think i need the openmoko sdl libraries but i think it's trying to use my system ones. If i append root@phone: to all the library paths, will that work?
Jul 28 20:28:30 * balrog-k1n managed to reproduce this same screen in qemu... far too many times :p
Jul 28 20:28:30 <Tanuva> wow, fso evolved massively since milestone1...
Jul 28 20:30:05 <balrog-k1n> Zeroedout: can you do that in python? in unix generally x@y:... is not a valid path
Jul 28 20:34:10 <Zeroedout> guess not......... no nfs for the freerunner yet eh?
Jul 28 20:34:52 <mmaestri> Tanuva: are you using FSO right now?
Jul 28 20:35:24 <Tanuva> malik1972: "using"... my neo's running it and I am desperately trying to recompile the zhone edj file, yes
Jul 28 20:35:33 <Tanuva> oh, sorry. I mean mmaestri 
Jul 28 20:35:45 <malik1972> hehe
Jul 28 20:35:51 <mmaestri> :p
Jul 28 20:35:58 <malik1972> cant help you
Jul 28 20:36:06 <balrog-k1n> Zeroedout: nfs should work identically to nfs between pc's
Jul 28 20:36:19 <mmaestri> Tanuva: well, are you using the latest build?
Jul 28 20:36:33 <Wonka> hrm... neod shall be replaced by something better, nor? when?
Jul 28 20:36:50 <mmaestri> i'm looking for some advice/opinion about its status
Jul 28 20:36:55 <Tanuva> mmaestri: I just flashed one from today, would expect it to be the latest, yes
Jul 28 20:37:08 <mmaestri> where did you get it?
Jul 28 20:37:20 * Rigolo would also like to know :-)
Jul 28 20:37:40 <Tanuva> the link CM posted a few lines before: http://totalueberwachung.de/~alphaone/openembedded-build/glibc/images/neo1973/?C=M;O=D
Jul 28 20:37:56 <Tanuva> they're inofficial he says, but at least here it runs
Jul 28 20:38:44 <mmaestri> Tanuva: it runs...but you are complaining about zhone not working, right?
Jul 28 20:38:45 <CM> Tanuva: Not sure if you noticed, but alphaone sad he was just making a new build a little while ago
Jul 28 20:39:11 <alphaone> http://totalueberwachung.de/~alphaone/openembedded-build/glibc/images/neo1973/openmoko-fso-image-glibc-ipk--20080728-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2.summary
Jul 28 20:39:23 <Tanuva> CM: I didnt notice that - but I appreciate that since opkg segfaults regularly :D
Jul 28 20:39:26 <alphaone> That one's the newest, another one coming up shortly
Jul 28 20:39:35 <mmaestri> that looks better. it says "gta02" :p
Jul 28 20:39:43 <Tanuva> yep
Jul 28 20:40:15 <CM> alphaone: How do I power off the FSO=
Jul 28 20:40:15 <CM> ?
Jul 28 20:40:28 <CM> Holding the power button does nothing..
Jul 28 20:40:38 <Rigolo> I understood you can not .... remove the battery :-)
Jul 28 20:40:38 <mmaestri> alphaone: can I keep my kernel or had to flash a new one?
Jul 28 20:40:45 <alphaone> CM: I think only hard power off works
Jul 28 20:40:54 <CM> Ok, no
Jul 28 20:40:55 <alphaone> which means holding the button for 10secs
Jul 28 20:41:01 <CM> Hmm..
Jul 28 20:41:03 <CM> I'll try
Jul 28 20:41:29 <alphaone> mmaestri: If your kernel ends with +8533927964761f4e2078ccd8607b90f5acc60b93-r4-om-gta02.bin you can keep
Jul 28 20:41:37 <alphaone> I always update to be on the safe side.
Jul 28 20:41:51 <alphaone> But it's often not necessary
Jul 28 20:41:57 <CM> Looks nice, suspends and resumes, but I can't call yet
Jul 28 20:42:09 <alphaone> CM: Hmm, should be possible actually
Jul 28 20:42:19 <Wonka> i could call...
Jul 28 20:42:21 <alphaone> stefan_schmidt called me a couple hours ago
Jul 28 20:42:33 <alphaone> I was also able to send him SMS
Jul 28 20:42:34 <Wonka> after inserting a sim and entering the pin
Jul 28 20:42:34 <kd8ikt> dangit i'm trying to compile htop but it cant find curses.h  
Jul 28 20:42:35 <CM> Yes, the dialer worked this time, but it might be some sound problem
Jul 28 20:42:43 <mmaestri> alphaone: there is a contact list now?
Jul 28 20:42:45 <CM> I phoned with the devel-image about 5 minutes ago
Jul 28 20:42:45 <kd8ikt> and yes i have every curses dev pkg avail
Jul 28 20:44:30 * Toaster` is happy. His FR now fully works (well, as well as can be expected)
Jul 28 20:44:34 <mmaestri> ...is there a contact list on that FSO build?
Jul 28 20:44:49 <Tanuva> yes, it's there,but I cant test how far it works atm
Jul 28 20:44:50 <CM> alphaone: Can't kill it by holding the power button either, only by taking out the battery
Jul 28 20:44:56 <Tanuva> CM: same here
Jul 28 20:45:18 <alphaone> CM: oh, okay
Jul 28 20:45:20 <alphaone> strange
Jul 28 20:45:29 <CM> Want to reboot anyway, to see if I can get the sound working
Jul 28 20:45:44 <alphaone> mmaestri: Contact list is list of contacts on SIM
Jul 28 20:45:45 <Zorkman> CM: Tanuva alphaone maybe its better to ssh and reboot from terminal then unpluggin the battery
Jul 28 20:45:53 <kd8ikt> i've noticed mine is like a regular computer in that if you hold the power button long enough it turns off
Jul 28 20:46:19 <Tanuva> Zorkman: that's what I do all the time (if it didn't crash :) )
Jul 28 20:46:20 <CM> kd8ikt: The openmoko-devel-image does that
Jul 28 20:46:22 <kd8ikt> well the moko is a computer so...
Jul 28 20:46:32 <kd8ikt> no biggy
Jul 28 20:46:32 <CM> But not moko underground or fso, for me at least
Jul 28 20:46:34 <mmaestri> alphaone: yes, i've readed before that FSO didn't had a way of reading the SIM to get the contact list
Jul 28 20:48:29 <mmaestri> anyone using debian? 
Jul 28 20:48:40 <Wonka> not on my FR
Jul 28 20:48:40 <Zorkman> HOLY MACARONI
Jul 28 20:48:46 <Zorkman> the screen offset in landscape mode is gone
Jul 28 20:48:56 <mmaestri> ...on the fr...
Jul 28 20:49:03 <Zorkman> yes, on the freerunner :p
Jul 28 20:49:03 <CM> Sweet, calling worked after a pull-out-the-battery reboot :)
Jul 28 20:49:06 <Chox> macaroni penguin
Jul 28 20:49:10 <alphaone> Zorkman: Where, how, why?
Jul 28 20:49:21 <Tanuva> Zorkman: what the?!
Jul 28 20:49:23 <Tanuva> nice
Jul 28 20:49:39 <Zorkman> ASU image; kernel: 2807, rootfs 2207, i have done no opkg upgrade
Jul 28 20:50:06 <mmaestri> Zorkman: lucky you
Jul 28 20:51:00 <Tanuva> alphaone: is totalueberwachung.de down?
Jul 28 20:51:15 <Zorkman> update: sometimes the offset reintroduces itself
Jul 28 20:51:37 <mmaestri> that's weird
Jul 28 20:51:53 <Zorkman> yes, very
Jul 28 20:52:00 <Tanuva> huh. an offset with it's own intelligence...
Jul 28 20:52:24 <kd8ikt> cool w00t.com is selling a battery powered lawnmower
Jul 28 20:52:37 <Zorkman> it seems that it only happens *sometimes* when you click too close to a corner...
Jul 28 20:52:43 <alphaone> Tanuva: Shouldn't be
Jul 28 20:52:45 <mmaestri> Zorkman: which apps are you testing?
Jul 28 20:52:53 <mmaestri> on landscape mode
Jul 28 20:52:56 <alphaone> It's also my router so as long as we can communicate :-)
Jul 28 20:53:00 <Zorkman> scummvm
Jul 28 20:53:15 <alphaone> Tanuva: But I just built a new fso image on there.
Jul 28 20:53:23 <alphaone> So it might have been a little slow
Jul 28 20:53:34 * Chox tried to build FSO yesterday. failed :-(
Jul 28 20:53:34 <Tanuva> alphaone: maybe its too busy, yes. Going to wait a few mins
Jul 28 20:53:38 <Chox> takes foreeeeeeeeeever.
Jul 28 20:53:46 <alphaone> Tanuva: Try again now
Jul 28 20:53:50 * Tanuva once built 2007.2 by hand
Jul 28 20:53:52 <alphaone> should be ready
Jul 28 20:53:58 <yoyo_> sija
Jul 28 20:53:58 <Chox> bit by bit?
Jul 28 20:53:59 <Toaster`> does anyone know where SMS are stored on the FR?  
Jul 28 20:54:35 <Tanuva> alphaone: hmm... doesn't seem to respond...
Jul 28 20:54:42 <CM> Chox: I built it today, no problem
Jul 28 20:54:50 * Zorkman is going to play monkey island 2 :)
Jul 28 20:55:10 <mmaestri> Toaster`: I guess it depends on which image are you using
Jul 28 20:55:29 <Toaster`> mmaestri: 2007.2 + all the updates
Jul 28 20:55:58 <phrozen77> anyone has a clue how to get a mailinglist into evolution? the fields for it are all grayed out and unresponsive
Jul 28 20:58:01 <CM> Chox: What's breaking it for you? Taking too long?
Jul 28 20:59:00 <Toaster`> I figured the SMS texts would be sitting in .evolution, but nope, only the addressbook is there.
Jul 28 20:59:46 <Toaster`> My issue is that my FR thinks that I have a new message, when I don't.  Nothing is listed in the messages app so I think I have a null message there, so I want to see if I can clear it.
Jul 28 21:01:10 <Toaster`> Not a showstopper by any means, but it is annoying to have a fixed "1 new message(s)" box sitting on my today screen.
Jul 28 21:01:49 <Toaster`> anyone have an idea?
Jul 28 21:02:11 <zogs> but the keyboard with ASU?
Jul 28 21:04:33 <CM> Is there any way to get a qwerty keyboard on the fso?
Jul 28 21:06:03 <Tanuva> CM: the new builds have illume with it's keyboard like on asu
Jul 28 21:06:18 <Nixoeen> It was supposed to have a new phones in stock in 25th of July, but it's 4 days passed, and still nothing ! Anybody knows why ?
Jul 28 21:06:18 <CM> Tanuva: Ok, then how do you get it to show?
Jul 28 21:06:24 <CM> I'm trying to add a contact
Jul 28 21:06:33 <CM> Or write an sms
Jul 28 21:06:35 <Tanuva> CM: press the "qwerty" button on the upper left
Jul 28 21:06:45 <CM> Ok, trying to do that, but nothing shows up
Jul 28 21:06:57 <Tanuva> then, the "ABC" button on the upper right of the keyboard panel
Jul 28 21:07:06 <CM> Guess I'll have to click harder, maybe it's not perfectly aligned on the GTA01
Jul 28 21:07:06 <Tanuva> thats strange
Jul 28 21:07:52 <CM> Tanuva: I can get the drop down menu, but no qwerty
Jul 28 21:08:43 <Tanuva> CM: there *should* come up the keyboard if you click the upper left instead of dropping illume...
Jul 28 21:08:56 <CM> Ok. Does nothing here
Jul 28 21:09:05 <CM> Maybe an gta01 issue
Jul 28 21:09:25 <CM> Tanuva: Thanks anyway :)
Jul 28 21:09:29 <Zorkman> Tanuva: CM: are yo talking about the querty button?
Jul 28 21:09:32 <Tanuva> yep... that part already worked fine on asu with my fr
Jul 28 21:09:37 <Tanuva> Zorkman: yes
Jul 28 21:09:38 <CM> Zorkman: Yes
Jul 28 21:09:49 <Zorkman> it *used to work* on my asu also
Jul 28 21:09:55 <CM> Ah, ok
Jul 28 21:10:02 <Zorkman> today i reflashed (beacause okg broke it) and it doesn't appear when i click it
Jul 28 21:10:17 <Zorkman> very inconvenient
Jul 28 21:10:18 <CM> Ok, so broken in todays build then
Jul 28 21:10:20 <CM> thanks
Jul 28 21:10:28 <CM> At least it's not just me ;)
Jul 28 21:10:32 <Zorkman> i didn't upgrade to todays build, because opkg upgrade bricks my asu
Jul 28 21:10:52 <Zorkman> i edited the *edj file manually though, don't know how you did it
Jul 28 21:11:11 <Tanuva> Zorkman: did you do that on the neo?
Jul 28 21:11:12 <CM> I built it an hour ago
Jul 28 21:12:22 <zogs> where I found a keyboard for asu?
Jul 28 21:13:23 <Tanuva> grmpf... cant get onto totalueberwachung.de anymore >.<
Jul 28 21:13:30 <Zorkman> Tanuva: yes on the freerunner
Jul 28 21:13:43 <CM> Tanuva: Maybe alphaone went to sleep ;)
Jul 28 21:14:18 <Tanuva> Zorkman: which packages did you install to do that? I cant get it to compile, decompiling works though - build.sh complains about a missing embryo_cc IIRC
Jul 28 21:14:42 <Tanuva> CM: he said it should work some time ago... but you might be true
Jul 28 21:17:33 <Toaster`> so no idea about how to clear an surplus SMS?
Jul 28 21:18:17 <CM> Toaster`: With the openmoko-devel-image (2007.2) I always get two old ones sent back to me when I turn it on
Jul 28 21:18:25 <CM> Don't get it with the asu
Jul 28 21:18:34 <Tanuva> lol
Jul 28 21:18:45 <Zorkman> Tanuva: i downloaded a precompiled one
Jul 28 21:18:47 <alphaone> CM: Tanuva: ?
Jul 28 21:18:57 <Toaster`> CM: ok, I suppose I could give the ASU a try.  does TangoGPs work with the ASU?
Jul 28 21:19:11 <CM> Tanuva: The page works for me
Jul 28 21:19:12 <Tanuva> alphaone: your (?) server is still unreachable for me
Jul 28 21:19:15 <Tanuva> hmm
Jul 28 21:19:31 <alphaone> Tanuva: Okay, can you do a traceroute?
Jul 28 21:19:33 <Zorkman> Tanuva: http://www.mikeasoft.com/~mike/illume.edj
Jul 28 21:19:35 <alphaone> and pastebin that?
Jul 28 21:19:46 <Zorkman> Toaster`: it works with the ASU
Jul 28 21:19:55 <CM> Tanuva: http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com  :)
Jul 28 21:19:56 <alphaone> Tanuva: can you reach www.tu-bs.de ?
Jul 28 21:19:56 <Tanuva> Zorkman: ah. I thought you modified it manually, that's what I'd want to do
Jul 28 21:20:09 <Zorkman> nope, the noobness is too strong in this one :)
Jul 28 21:20:20 <Zorkman> if you get it to work, let me know ;)
Jul 28 21:20:43 <Tanuva> alphaone: yes, I can reach that. traceroute in a second...
Jul 28 21:20:59 <alphaone> k
Jul 28 21:21:15 <Nixoeen> It was supposed to have a new phones in stock in 25th of July, but it's 4 days passed, and still nothing ! Anybody knows why ?
Jul 28 21:21:30 <zogs> Zorkman: where I can find keyboard with ASU?
Jul 28 21:22:09 <Zorkman> zogs:  http://www.mikeasoft.com/~mike/illume.edj  used to work for me (copy that to http://www.mikeasoft.com/~mike/illume.edj)
Jul 28 21:22:19 <Zorkman> but at this moment it doesn't work for me :)
Jul 28 21:22:31 <Zorkman> be sure to back up your old illume.edj file (you never know)
Jul 28 21:22:36 <Tanuva> alphaone: http://rafb.net/p/czEFA076.html
Jul 28 21:23:57 <Zorkman> how do i kill an app through ssh?
Jul 28 21:24:01 <torpor> yo
Jul 28 21:24:07 <torpor> has anyone written a screenlock application yet?
Jul 28 21:24:12 <Chox> kill/killall
Jul 28 21:24:13 <Blastur> Zorkman: kill `pidof <appname>`
Jul 28 21:24:28 <Chox> killall <appname>
Jul 28 21:24:36 <Tanuva> torpor: there's one in fso
Jul 28 21:25:11 <torpor> great
Jul 28 21:25:18 <torpor> how do i put it on a freerunner running om2007.2?
Jul 28 21:25:25 <torpor> /7/8/
Jul 28 21:25:47 <Tanuva> torpor: afaik you cant, because its part of zhone, but I'm not sure about that
Jul 28 21:26:08 <torpor> ok
Jul 28 21:26:10 <Chox> http://cgi.ebay.com/Openmoko-Linux-neo1973-Cell-Phone_W0QQitemZ260267358465QQihZ016QQcategoryZ3312QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Jul 28 21:26:15 <Chox> neo for sale.
Jul 28 21:26:20 <torpor> thanks for the headsup anyway . i'll just write my own for now.
Jul 28 21:26:31 <Tanuva> actually you could, but I doubt that being useful
Jul 28 21:26:34 <Chox> also a full freerunner with kit, but a bit pricey for second hand
Jul 28 21:27:15 <Zorkman> not a freerunner chox, a neo 1973
Jul 28 21:27:20 <Chox> keep up.
Jul 28 21:27:26 <Chox> _also_
Jul 28 21:27:44 <peter__b> so there is no way to get a keyboard for asu atm ?
Jul 28 21:27:48 <Chox> http://cgi.ebay.com/OpenMoko-FreeRunner-cell-phone_W0QQitemZ220260639722QQihZ012QQcategoryZ20336QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Jul 28 21:27:49 <Chox> :p
Jul 28 21:27:58 <peter__b> (besides downgrading)
Jul 28 21:28:43 <Zorkman> :)
Jul 28 21:32:48 * Chox flips filip
Jul 28 21:33:18 <alphaone> Tanuva: http://rafb.net/p/IM79Wr32.html
Jul 28 21:33:59 <alphaone> There seems to be a problem in the network somewhere
Jul 28 21:34:29 <alphaone> Between the deutsche Telekom and the netherlands
Jul 28 21:35:00 <schmichael> did a response to someones criticism just get posted to the announce list? http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2008-July/000023.html
Jul 28 21:35:50 <Tanuva> alphaone: hm. so we can't do anything about it... I'll wait. Tcom sometimes really sucks... :/
Jul 28 21:36:12 <alphaone> Tanuva: :-(
Jul 28 21:36:25 <alphaone> Tanuva: Wait...
Jul 28 21:36:30 <alphaone> www.tu-bs.de works?
Jul 28 21:36:38 <Tanuva> yes
Jul 28 21:36:49 <alphaone> waah!
Jul 28 21:37:08 <alphaone> totalueberwachung.de (32.1.6.56)
Jul 28 21:37:14 * Tanuva takes cover
Jul 28 21:37:15 <alphaone> That's entirely not right
Jul 28 21:37:24 <GoldenHawk> FYI all, I wrote a small tutorial for turning on the on-screen keyboard toggle button under ASU:  http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/ASU_Keyboard_Toggle
Jul 28 21:37:47 <alphaone> Tanuva: Can you provide me details as to what DNS Server reports that?
Jul 28 21:38:12 <Tanuva> hmm... my router does dns-forwarding and is using the tcom-dns'es afaik
Jul 28 21:38:28 <alphaone> Tanuva: host -a totalueberwachung.de
Jul 28 21:38:50 <zogs> GoldenHawk: great , thanks
Jul 28 21:39:06 <Tanuva> alphaone: tells me the nameserver's not responding
Jul 28 21:39:13 <alphaone> Tanuva: in the meantime try 134.169.172.64 as IP
Jul 28 21:39:19 <alphaone> Tanuva: huh
Jul 28 21:39:22 <alphaone> that's strange
Jul 28 21:39:33 <Rigolo> alphaone: that is what I get ... that Ip address you just gave
Jul 28 21:39:43 <Rigolo> I see you ahve ipv6 and ipv4 connectivity
Jul 28 21:39:53 <Toaster`> strange, I just flashed to ASU and not ssh isn't taking a blank root password
Jul 28 21:40:27 <Rigolo> Toaster`: I thought so too ... yesterday .. then i realized I was ssh to 200 instead of 202 :-)
Jul 28 21:40:40 <Tanuva> alphaone: ip works, thanks - is that a dynamic or static one (can I bookmark it reliably)?
Jul 28 21:41:16 <Toaster`> Rigolo: oi... I just did the same thing... now I feel like a fool
Jul 28 21:41:30 <alphaone> Tanuva: Pretty static
Jul 28 21:41:36 <Rigolo> well .... just think ... you are not the only one :-)
Jul 28 21:41:39 <Tanuva> fine
Jul 28 21:41:48 <peter__b> GoldenHawk: i already tried what you have written but it only gave me the qwerty back -  no keyboard after pressing it
Jul 28 21:41:49 <alphaone> Tanuva: But I would rather have we figure out the reason.
Jul 28 21:42:08 <Tanuva> yep
Jul 28 21:42:10 <Rigolo> btw ... does anybody know how to change the default font size in openmoko-browser? it is too big right now :-)
Jul 28 21:42:23 <GoldenHawk> peter__b: Okay.  I'll try it again and see if I can fix it.
Jul 28 21:43:51 <Zorkman> peter_b: same here, my modfied edj file already had visible 1
Jul 28 21:43:51 <peter__b> GoldenHawk: i did this yesterday after i found that stuff in the ml
Jul 28 21:44:38 <peter__b> Zorkman: did you downloadd the edje file before ?
Jul 28 21:45:31 <peter__b> iirc someone in the ml said that the keyboard can be disabled in software
Jul 28 21:45:31 <Zorkman> yes
Jul 28 21:45:40 <peter__b> there you go :-)
Jul 28 21:45:59 <Zorkman> peter__b: i downloaded the file that wasz posted in the mailinglists, it worked on my previous build of the ASU but not on this one
Jul 28 21:46:12 <Zorkman> probably due to me not opkg upgrading
Jul 28 21:46:12 <peter__b> this fix at least makes me able to enter my sim pin again :-)
Jul 28 21:46:28 <Zorkman> when i press the qwerty button currently nothing happens
Jul 28 21:46:57 <peter__b> the same here
Jul 28 21:47:08 <peter__b> something diasabled the keyboard :-(
Jul 28 21:47:10 <kd8ikt> hey did i tell you guys my phone has an ipv6 addy? 
Jul 28 21:47:45 <Zorkman> nno you didn't
Jul 28 21:47:46 <kd8ikt> alphaone: ping6 2001:470:1f11:c7:212:cfff:fe8f:347b   <-- my phone
Jul 28 21:48:03 <kd8ikt> wonder howbad the lag is
Jul 28 21:48:06 <Tanuva> kd8ikt: the phone directly on the net?
Jul 28 21:48:10 <kd8ikt> yup
Jul 28 21:48:19 <kd8ikt> well through my router/tunnel
Jul 28 21:48:21 <Tanuva> nice
Jul 28 21:48:22 <ezekiel-v3> isn't fe8f in the self-addressed range?
Jul 28 21:48:27 <ezekiel-v3> oh, nice
Jul 28 21:48:42 <kd8ikt> i should install a webserver
Jul 28 21:48:48 <ezekiel-v3> haha
Jul 28 21:49:07 <alphaone> kd8ikt: 300ms rtt :-)
Jul 28 21:49:12 <Rigolo> kd8ikt: and then post to slashdot .... and see your FR go up in flames :-)
Jul 28 21:49:14 * Tanuva knows his router is linux-powered, maybe its ipv6 capable..
Jul 28 21:49:20 <alphaone> kd8ikt: And good, you changed the password :-)
Jul 28 21:49:27 <Tanuva> Rigolo: *g*
Jul 28 21:49:35 <Toaster`> kd8ikt: installweserve... go for it, and I'm sure no one here would think about posting it to /. :)
Jul 28 21:49:37 <kd8ikt> lets see it goes from he.net main routers -> my router/tunnel endpoint  over wifi my phone is connected
Jul 28 21:49:48 <Rigolo> Tanuva: what router do you have ... maybe it will run openwrt .. than you have all the control you want
Jul 28 21:49:48 <Toaster`> Rigolo: damnit, beat me to it
Jul 28 21:49:50 <Chox> like the link with the guy running a webserver on a C64
Jul 28 21:50:27 <Tanuva> Rigolo: I haven't heard of owrt running on it - its an siemens gigaset se515
Jul 28 21:50:28 <Rigolo> Chox: what C64 .. he said after 5 mins :-)
Jul 28 21:50:37 <Tanuva> s/an/a/
Jul 28 21:50:38 <apt> Tanuva meant: Rigolo: I haven't heard of owrt running on it - its a siemens gigaset se515
Jul 28 21:50:48 <Chox> slashdot post.
Jul 28 21:51:17 <kd8ikt> lol alphaone you didnt try connecting dropbear did you
Jul 28 21:51:24 <alphaone> kd8ikt: Sure I did
Jul 28 21:51:25 <kd8ikt> your a bad panda!
Jul 28 21:51:29 <Chox> you're
Jul 28 21:51:32 <Tanuva> LOL
Jul 28 21:51:35 <alphaone> The authenticity of host '2001:470:1f11:c7:212:cfff:fe8f:347b (2001:470:1f11:c7:212:cfff:fe8f:347b)' can't be established.
Jul 28 21:51:40 <Chox> lots of losers?
Jul 28 21:51:53 <Tanuva> no, laughing out loud :)
Jul 28 21:51:55 <zogs> root@om-gta02:~# opkg install edje-utils
Jul 28 21:51:55 <zogs> An error ocurred, return value: 2.
Jul 28 21:52:23 <ajbrun> hi, can someone explain how i could copy a file from my PC to qemu emulating openmoko? Possibly using scp?
Jul 28 21:52:26 <alphaone> kd8ikt: Well, I would have told you so.
Jul 28 21:52:39 <nomeata> Hi. I heard rumors that the sleep and power-management problems are fixable now, with a certain version of uboot and/or the kernel, but I can’t find any details. Does someone here know more?
Jul 28 21:53:15 <peter__b> sleep is working fine for me
Jul 28 21:53:30 <peter__b> i just cant make it go to sleep automatically
Jul 28 21:53:51 <nomeata> peter__b: but when it sleeps, it stays asleep (even with GSM enabled) and wakes up reliably?
Jul 28 21:53:54 <Rigolo> Tanuva: it list your router as a WIP .. so who knows :-)
Jul 28 21:54:22 <peter__b>  it wakes up when a call arrives
Jul 28 21:54:30 <peter__b> didnt test that musch ...
Jul 28 21:55:02 <Tanuva> Rigolo: interesting... maybe I'm going to have a look at it :)
Jul 28 21:55:13 <peter__b> but it doesnt go back to sleep if you dont answer the call ...
Jul 28 21:55:16 <Tanuva> argh, present progressive doesn't fit there
Jul 28 21:55:52 <Rigolo> Tanuva: and it seems to be the exact same as the dynalink RTA770W .... and that owrt wiki page was last editted june last year)
Jul 28 21:56:06 <nomeata> peter__b: even with power management set to "Dim and lock"?
Jul 28 21:56:06 <Rigolo> but ... kamikaze has grown a lot since then ...
Jul 28 21:56:09 <lindi-> Rigolo: openwrt does not guarantee full control
Jul 28 21:56:37 <Rigolo> lindi-: well ... as much as you can get from your hardware under linux and "open" drivers 
Jul 28 21:56:40 <lindi-> Rigolo: i bought linksys wrt54gl and i can't even use linux 2.6 on it :(
Jul 28 21:57:01 <Rigolo> lindi-: not even with the trunk build of openwrt?
Jul 28 21:57:04 <peter__b> nomeata: im using asu
Jul 28 21:57:21 <nomeata> hmm, ok.
Jul 28 21:57:30 <nomeata> peter__b: did you upgrade uboot since you got your freerunner?
Jul 28 21:57:41 <peter__b> yo
Jul 28 21:57:48 <Rigolo> Tanuva: and if you do not like your wifi ... you can change your wifi card ... it is on a mini PCI bus :-)
Jul 28 21:58:04 <Tanuva> Rigolo: :D
Jul 28 21:58:17 <peter__b> but i didnt test sleep on asu before - so i cant tell if it makes a difference
Jul 28 21:58:25 <Tanuva> wifi's just fine, I'd like some webserver on it...
Jul 28 21:59:38 <peter__b> Tanuva: would be a nice thing to manage contacts, upload files ...
Jul 28 22:00:24 <Tanuva> peter__b: hm.... nice idea
Jul 28 22:00:25 <peter__b> i can use the webserver on my nokia to dial numbers :-)
Jul 28 22:00:36 <Tanuva> .d
Jul 28 22:00:46 <Rigolo> Tanuva: http://k0.j0t.de/index.php/board,1.0.html complete forum about your router/modem :-)
Jul 28 22:00:49 <lindi-> Rigolo: afaik not
Jul 28 22:01:32 <Rigolo> lindi-: is that because the drivers for the broadcom wifi are not yet "complete" for 2.6?
Jul 28 22:01:56 <Chox> oh dear, still not ;-)
Jul 28 22:02:04 <Chox> openwrt was struggling with this a year ago.
Jul 28 22:02:48 <kd8ikt> still are last i checked
Jul 28 22:02:55 <Rigolo> Chox: they annunced that they will release a 2008.08 release ... but yes .. still with no wifi on a wrt with 2.6 ... 2.4 only
Jul 28 22:05:04 <lindi-> Rigolo: afaik yes
Jul 28 22:05:27 <lindi-> Rigolo: unfortunately neither wikipedia nor freewrt.org warned me about this before buying the device :(
Jul 28 22:05:58 <Rigolo> lindi-: and why do you need 2.6 ... what does not work on 2.4 that you really need 2.6 for?
Jul 28 22:06:18 <kd8ikt> yea
Jul 28 22:06:53 <AntonTakk> asu can sleep? how?
Jul 28 22:07:17 <peter__b> apm -s
Jul 28 22:07:22 <Rigolo> AntonTakk: give it a nice pilow, some blankets and some time .... singing might also help
Jul 28 22:07:23 <kd8ikt> my wrt had a great uptime untill i rebooted it lastnight cause i accidently killed dropbear
Jul 28 22:07:43 <AntonTakk> peter__b: ah, so nothing automatic
Jul 28 22:08:00 <peter__b> if you find something let me know :-)
Jul 28 22:08:02 <lindi-> Rigolo: i have written modules for 2.6
Jul 28 22:08:11 <lindi-> Rigolo: i'd like to avoid having to port them to 2.4
Jul 28 22:08:21 <Rigolo> my wrt v1 started to become too slow for my cable internet connection .... so now I moved the router to a via based mini PC
Jul 28 22:08:25 <kd8ikt> /etc/init.d/dropbear restart   when i probably should've /etc/init.d/dropbear restart &   cause it killed dropbear and killed the rest of the restart script
Jul 28 22:08:31 <Chox> aw
Jul 28 22:08:32 <AntonTakk> peter__b: well, ther's the power menu under the config options of illume, but i'm not sure it works quite right
Jul 28 22:08:39 <lindi-> Rigolo: not to forget FUSE
Jul 28 22:08:43 <Chox> yes, dropbear isn't as good as standard openssh
Jul 28 22:08:58 <Chox> or it might just be setup wrong in OM
Jul 28 22:09:01 <peter__b> AntonTakk: changes nothing for me :-(
Jul 28 22:09:05 <kd8ikt> but hey its super small though!
Jul 28 22:09:11 <Chox> troo.
Jul 28 22:09:22 <peter__b> spend 2h today trying to find something
Jul 28 22:09:45 <kd8ikt> i've spent like 4hrs trying to get htop to crosscompile for my moko
Jul 28 22:09:47 <AntonTakk> peter__b: could always just make a .desktop file for suspend
Jul 28 22:09:48 <Rigolo> lindi-: okee, I have split the wireless and the router now in 2 pieces ... I'm using my wrt only as a AP now ... no routing etc
Jul 28 22:10:03 <kd8ikt> the configure cant find my curses.h
Jul 28 22:10:15 <peter__b> AntonTakk: already did that :-)
Jul 28 22:10:22 <AntonTakk> it work well?
Jul 28 22:10:43 <peter__b> the problem is when you get a call it doenst go back to sleep
Jul 28 22:10:48 <peter__b> yeah
Jul 28 22:10:52 <lindi-> Rigolo: yeah, my 486 laptop with lucent orinoco pcmcia card can run linux 2.6
Jul 28 22:10:54 <AntonTakk> share?  :)
Jul 28 22:11:06 <peter__b> mom
Jul 28 22:11:08 <kd8ikt> anyother teeny apps that i should try to crosscompile?
Jul 28 22:11:14 <lindi-> Rigolo: and i was hoping to _upgrade_ it :)
Jul 28 22:11:14 <AntonTakk> mom?
Jul 28 22:11:25 <peter__b> one moment :-)
Jul 28 22:11:32 <AntonTakk> ah, sure
Jul 28 22:11:44 * Rigolo likes those cards .... I have a very old lucent wavelan pcmcia card here .... just for fun
Jul 28 22:13:20 <Rigolo> I jusdt heard today that the wifi in the FR can not be put in AP mode ... so you can not use your FR as your main router
Jul 28 22:13:37 <Toaster`> is there any decent repos for the ASU?  it seems very crude compared to OM2008.2
Jul 28 22:14:12 <AntonTakk> Toaster`: asu is pre-alpha, it should be crude compaired to 2007.2
Jul 28 22:14:27 <Toaster`> AntonTakk: fair enough, I just wanted to check
Jul 28 22:14:32 <peter__b> <AntonTakk: http://pastebin.com/d2c52e1c1
Jul 28 22:14:32 <AntonTakk> Toaster`: otoh, LOTS of qt apps aren't in the default image
Jul 28 22:14:43 * Rigolo has setup a asus wl-500w with a umts usb modem to be the primairy internet access for a new  hardware shop where they forgot to order the landline/dsl :-)
Jul 28 22:15:01 <AntonTakk> Toaster`: opkg list | grep qtopia-phone-x11-*
Jul 28 22:15:13 <AntonTakk> peter__b: thankis  :)
Jul 28 22:15:28 <peter__b> havent picked an icon yet
Jul 28 22:16:09 <AntonTakk> i have just been using the diversity-nav icon for generic stuff :)
Jul 28 22:17:23 <peter__b> where are all the icons ?
Jul 28 22:17:33 <peter__b> no /usr/share/icons ?
Jul 28 22:17:35 <AntonTakk> /usr/share/pixmaps, iirc
Jul 28 22:17:54 <peter__b> grrr
Jul 28 22:18:01 <peter__b> could have found that :-)
Jul 28 22:18:09 <AntonTakk> hehe
Jul 28 22:19:29 <peter__b> using the terminal icon noow+
Jul 28 22:20:11 <peter__b> terminal is useless anyway without keyboard :-(
Jul 28 22:21:46 <AntonTakk> peter__b: don't you know how to enable the manual kb button in illume's theme?
Jul 28 22:22:25 <peter__b> is it working for you ?
Jul 28 22:22:31 <AntonTakk> yeah
Jul 28 22:22:38 <AntonTakk> it's easy to do
Jul 28 22:22:43 <peter__b> i only get the qwerty back but no keyboard
Jul 28 22:23:03 <AntonTakk> you have to do two edits to make it work
Jul 28 22:23:18 <peter__b> you mean the stuff like in the wiki pasted somewhere above ?
Jul 28 22:23:26 <peter__b> 2 edits ?
Jul 28 22:23:36 <peter__b> i know the visible_ 1
Jul 28 22:23:37 <AntonTakk> peter__b: not sure editing the illume theme is covered in the wiki
Jul 28 22:23:59 <Zorkman> which two edits are you referring to AntonTakk
Jul 28 22:24:02 <AntonTakk> peter__b: yeah, the other is the two lines like relative : 1.0 1.0
Jul 28 22:24:12 <AntonTakk> and relative: 0.0 1.0
Jul 28 22:24:24 <AntonTakk> one is commented, switch which is commented
Jul 28 22:24:28 <peter__b> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/ASU_Keyboard_Toggle
Jul 28 22:25:09 <AntonTakk> hrm, i did two, and it worked fine for me
Jul 28 22:25:28 <AntonTakk> i'll be doing it again when I get home in about 60 minutes, will you still be on?
Jul 28 22:26:20 <peter__b> dont think so
Jul 28 22:26:33 <peter__b> it already later than i thaught
Jul 28 22:26:38 <peter__b> freaking phone :-)
Jul 28 22:26:39 <AntonTakk> ok, i'll take notes and ping you next time i see you
Jul 28 22:27:12 <peter__b> why dont you add your stuff to the wiki ?
Jul 28 22:27:16 <Zorkman> AntonTakk: could you take a look at my freerunner.edc? http://pastebin.com/d2f807608
Jul 28 22:28:38 <AntonTakk> Zorkman: move the comment from 1576 to 1575
Jul 28 22:28:40 <AntonTakk> :)
Jul 28 22:28:49 <AntonTakk> line numbers ^^
Jul 28 22:28:55 <Zorkman> move, not copy, right?
Jul 28 22:29:11 <AntonTakk> right, uncomment 1576
Jul 28 22:29:18 <AntonTakk> comment 1575 out
Jul 28 22:29:23 <Zorkman> ok
Jul 28 22:29:35 <AntonTakk> be back on in about 60 mins
Jul 28 22:29:39 <AntonTakk> heading home
Jul 28 22:29:39 <peter__b> i will try that in 5 minutes
Jul 28 22:30:59 <Zorkman> ok i did that but it still wont show the keyboard (only the button)
Jul 28 22:31:04 <Zorkman> i will reboot
Jul 28 22:32:57 <goldenhawk> I forget who I was talking to earlier about modifying the theme to make the qwerty keyboard appear, but I just tried upgrading and modifying my theme.. and I got the same problem now.. I click qwerty and no keyboard comes up.. but more than than, no keyboard ever comes up now.
Jul 28 22:33:11 <goldenhawk> Even in contacts where it's supposed to come up automatically.
Jul 28 22:33:24 <goldenhawk> And when writing a text message
Jul 28 22:34:14 <goldenhawk> Before I even make any theme changes.
Jul 28 22:34:15 <peter__b> goldenhawk: i know ahat you are talking about :-(
Jul 28 22:35:19 <Zorkman> I have the same problem :)
Jul 28 22:35:57 <Zorkman> only with the last modification of antontakt i can't even press the querty button, it is being recognizes as a click on the dropdown windows
Jul 28 22:36:10 <goldenhawk> peter__b: I was going to actually try the stuff I put on that wiki page to turn on the keyboard toggle..  but it looks like some unrelated bug currently has the keyboard completely disabled.
Jul 28 22:36:26 <Zorkman> does anybody have a qwerty button that works? if so, could he please upload that illume.edj file somewhere?
Jul 28 22:36:48 <goldenhawk> Zorkman: Hm.  I think I left out some stuff you need to uncomment.  I'll edit that page.
Jul 28 22:37:09 <kd8ikt> whew mokomake finaly finished
Jul 28 22:37:15 <kd8ikt> devel-image
Jul 28 22:37:25 <kd8ikt> just a tad under 24hrs
Jul 28 22:37:55 <kd8ikt> but i cant find the finished product
Jul 28 22:38:29 <Zorkman> anyway, thanks everyone for the help
Jul 28 22:38:35 * Zorkman is going to sleep
Jul 28 22:40:21 <peter__b> goldenhawk: i think this is not theme related anymore
Jul 28 22:40:39 <peter__b> have you read the thread on the ml ?
Jul 28 22:41:05 <goldenhawk> peter__b: Yes.  If I'm not mistaken, the theme just makes it appear
Jul 28 22:41:32 <goldenhawk> peter__b: It doesn't implement the keyboard itself.  So if it doesn't work in contacts and in text messaging it's probably not going to work by messing with the theme.
Jul 28 22:41:40 <peter__b> iirc some wrote that the keyboard can be disabled somewhere else
Jul 28 22:52:23 <goldenhawk> I just took my known good backed up .edj file and tried it on my updated ASU
Jul 28 22:52:25 <goldenhawk> It doesn't work.
Jul 28 22:52:36 <goldenhawk> The keyboard is busted in general.. it's a bug.
Jul 28 22:52:36 <peter__b> :-(
Jul 28 22:53:47 <Yashy> does anyone have the date/time displayed on the main screen(s)?
Jul 28 22:53:49 <goldenhawk> I also did an update to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/ASU_Keyboard_Toggle  .. there are some other things which appear to need to be changed when editing the theme.
Jul 28 22:53:58 <goldenhawk> It won't work right now it seems, because the keyboard is broken in general.
Jul 28 22:54:07 <goldenhawk> But I'm confident it will work after the keyboard is fixed.
Jul 28 22:54:35 <goldenhawk> IMHO
Jul 28 22:55:30 <kd8ikt> alphaone: ping
Jul 28 22:55:35 <alphaone> pong
Jul 28 22:55:37 <alphaone> kd8ikt: 
Jul 28 22:55:41 <kd8ikt> damn that was quick
Jul 28 22:55:55 <kd8ikt> hey did ya see my webpage? ipv6!
Jul 28 22:56:02 <kd8ikt> http://we.trekbeyond.org
Jul 28 22:56:38 <kd8ikt> its useless yes
Jul 28 22:57:14 <alphaone> Heh
Jul 28 22:57:22 <alphaone> I sense a <blink> tag
Jul 28 22:57:41 <kd8ikt> it stands out a bit too much eh?
Jul 28 22:57:58 <kd8ikt> i'm just so proud of my ipv6 connectivity
Jul 28 22:58:04 <alphaone> :-)
Jul 28 22:58:07 <goldenhawk> http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1663 <-- Hmm.
Jul 28 22:58:25 <goldenhawk> This ticket seems to be suggesting using a different feed for opkg
Jul 28 22:58:57 <Dave> How are you gentlemen?
Jul 28 23:14:43 <peter__b> <goldenhawk>: lets see if downloads.openmoko.org will bring my keyboard back :-)
Jul 28 23:20:18 <peter__b> upgrade running
Jul 28 23:20:26 <goldenhawk> peter__b: Do you understand what they're saying about the different feeds?
Jul 28 23:20:39 <peter__b> i think i do now
Jul 28 23:21:05 <goldenhawk> peter__b: I'm not sure I'm clear on what feed is what..  I just clicked on the download link on the front page of openmoko.org and navigated like snapshots or something to get my image.
Jul 28 23:21:11 <peter__b> looks like there are big differences between the buildhost and the download server
Jul 28 23:22:23 <goldenhawk> peter__b: buildhost is unstable and download server is stable?  Is that it?
Jul 28 23:22:36 <peter__b> no
Jul 28 23:22:42 <peter__b> more the other way round
Jul 28 23:23:16 <goldenhawk> Ah!  Okay.
Jul 28 23:23:25 <peter__b> looks like something got messed up
Jul 28 23:24:10 <peter__b> look at /etc/opkg
Jul 28 23:25:40 <peter__b> http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php
Jul 28 23:25:50 <peter__b> im trying these feeds now
Jul 28 23:26:13 <peter__b> still updating
Jul 28 23:26:19 <pjz> anyone know how to read a text message if I'm using the qtopia image?
Jul 28 23:27:39 <goldenhawk> peter__b: Okay I'm trying http://downloads.openmoko.org/openmoko-repository/ASU/* now
Jul 28 23:27:47 <goldenhawk> peter__b: Your pastebin url doesn't seem right..
Jul 28 23:28:28 <peter__b> damn
Jul 28 23:28:32 <peter__b> i messed it up
Jul 28 23:29:24 <goldenhawk> peter__b: What happened?   Did you break things?
Jul 28 23:29:38 <peter__b>  the pastebin
Jul 28 23:29:52 <goldenhawk> peter__b: Phew! I feared you were about to say this other feed destroys everything :p
Jul 28 23:31:51 <peter__b> pastebin says "Sorry, your post tripped our spam filter - let us know if you think this could be improved"
Jul 28 23:32:03 <peter__b> and my x server wont start anymore
Jul 28 23:32:05 <peter__b>  :-(
Jul 28 23:32:24 <peter__b> gonna try a reboot
Jul 28 23:39:19 <richiefrich> does anyone know when the openmoko will get a new supply of phones
Jul 28 23:52:45 <mmaestri> ...is there anyone here using debian on the fr?
Jul 28 23:55:52 <SirBob1701> hey all
Jul 28 23:59:29 <alphaone> mmaestri: I think someone in #neo1973-germany is
Jul 29 00:07:10 <SirBob1701> has there not been an asu jffs2 since july21st or am i dumb....
Jul 29 00:07:35 <AntonTakk> i think there was a 22
Jul 29 00:07:59 <SirBob1701> still its been a while yeesh
Jul 29 00:08:28 <Weiss> should i be expecting to find the source code for the latest ASU image anywhere? i can't figure out whether i'm missing something one way or another
Jul 29 00:09:32 <AntonTakk> Weiss, in svn
Jul 29 00:09:56 <Weiss> i found my way to svn.openmoko.org, but can't quite figure out the layout
Jul 29 00:12:03 <AntonTakk> did that illume theme change work for you guys?
Jul 29 00:12:26 <SirBob1701> ??
Jul 29 00:13:16 <AntonTakk> was talking to a couplepeople about enabeling the keyboard button in illume before I leftwork
Jul 29 00:13:29 <AntonTakk> but i don't remember who  :)
Jul 29 00:13:38 <SirBob1701> ah i just tried it based on wiki.  / in vi was acting up.  you weren't talking to me btw
Jul 29 00:13:41 <SirBob1701> i fracked itu p
Jul 29 00:13:46 <SirBob1701> won't boot now
Jul 29 00:13:54 <AntonTakk> eww
Jul 29 00:13:58 <SirBob1701> ya lol
Jul 29 00:14:18 <SirBob1701> i wanna know where this sean guy is who doesn't want that button in so i can beat him sensless lol
Jul 29 00:14:35 <AntonTakk> if allyou messed with was the illume.edj file you should just need to replace it with the backup you DID make.....right?
Jul 29 00:14:58 <SirBob1701> haha if only i wasn't so compulsive
Jul 29 00:15:04 <AntonTakk> ah
Jul 29 00:15:16 <SirBob1701> i'm dling the july 22 flash right now
Jul 29 00:15:16 <Toaster`> is there a cron mechanism on the FR?  I want to do regular backups to my SD card and since it's across devices, hard links won't work.
Jul 29 00:15:21 <SirBob1701> wish there was a more up to date one
Jul 29 00:15:33 <AntonTakk> i believe the illume theme has it's own package
Jul 29 00:15:45 <SirBob1701> AntonTakk: it does
Jul 29 00:15:54 <AntonTakk> so remove and reinstall it
Jul 29 00:15:55 <Weiss> AntonTakk: whereabouts in SVN should i be looking for, say, the dialler?
Jul 29 00:15:56 <SirBob1701> can you boot temrinal only?
Jul 29 00:16:17 <AntonTakk> i'm guessinf the phone boots but illume is barfing on the theme file
Jul 29 00:16:30 <SirBob1701> ok let us see
Jul 29 00:16:44 <peter__b> <AntonTakk>: read this http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1663
Jul 29 00:18:01 <SirBob1701> AntonTakk: looks like it might be barfing on something else
Jul 29 00:18:46 <AntonTakk> hrm
Jul 29 00:19:08 <SirBob1701> have you heard anything on why the damn keyboard won't show up at all in the latest updates?
Jul 29 00:19:16 <SirBob1701> looks like there blowing though there feature plan 
Jul 29 00:19:22 <AntonTakk> looks like that ticket has the answer
Jul 29 00:19:22 <SirBob1701> but shit 
Jul 29 00:19:58 <AntonTakk> i know the asu daily from 7/15 has the illume kb
Jul 29 00:20:28 <Dave> It's Sir Bob!
Jul 29 00:20:29 <SirBob1701> so does 7/21
Jul 29 00:20:35 <SirBob1701> ??
Jul 29 00:22:02 <SirBob1701> Dave: you on crack?
Jul 29 00:22:57 <Dave> Excuse me?
Jul 29 00:23:26 <SirBob1701> lol why the excitement?
Jul 29 00:23:33 <balrog-k1n> not only that
Jul 29 00:23:37 <balrog-k1n> but it's one seven oh one!
Jul 29 00:23:38 <SirBob1701> did i do something wrong?
Jul 29 00:24:13 <Dave> haha
Jul 29 00:24:22 <Dave> I don't think he gets it, Balrogkun :p
Jul 29 00:24:46 <SirBob1701> correct
Jul 29 00:24:52 <SirBob1701> lol
Jul 29 00:25:17 <balrog-k1n> Dave: yea, i don't think either
Jul 29 00:25:20 <SirBob1701> i sense the cynicism though
Jul 29 00:25:36 <balrog-k1n> SirBob1701: you didn't do anything wrong
Jul 29 00:25:41 <balrog-k1n> but Dave will spank you anyway
Jul 29 00:25:49 <SirBob1701> grrr ;)
Jul 29 00:56:06 <kd8ikt> aw cool i was just reading about wifi being in the amateur radio band
Jul 29 00:56:37 <kd8ikt> meaning i can up the signal strength on my devices aslong as i turn encryption off
Jul 29 00:56:50 <kd8ikt> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/802.11#802.11g
Jul 29 00:57:12 <kd8ikt> channels 1-6
Jul 29 00:57:52 * kd8ikt needs to buy a big arse antenna + signal amp
Jul 29 00:58:28 <pjz> kd8ikt: don't bother; 802.11 behaves poorly if you amp it up too much
Jul 29 00:59:13 <kd8ikt> damn
Jul 29 00:59:36 <kd8ikt> but a good antenna high up would be nice
Jul 29 00:59:45 <pjz> kd8ikt: it was explained to me that it has something to do with seeing too many beaconing clients or APs or something basically runs most chipsets and/or access points out of CPU trying to deal with them
Jul 29 01:00:16 <pjz> kd8ikt: this was told to me by a guy who did a lot of work with a company that was doing essentially phased-array antennas for wifi
Jul 29 01:00:25 <kd8ikt> so... 
Jul 29 01:01:32 <kd8ikt> you mean an overflow of clients?
Jul 29 01:01:47 <Dave> KDEIGHT
Jul 29 01:02:16 <kd8ikt> Kilo Delta 'eight' India Kilo Tango
Jul 29 01:02:31 <kd8ikt> i wish i had an F or W in it
Jul 29 01:02:38 <kd8ikt> so i could say Whiskey ;)
Jul 29 01:03:23 <pjz> kd8ikt: how do you pronounce your name anyway? k-date-ickt is the closest I can figure
Jul 29 01:03:42 <pjz> though I guess it could be a ham callsign
Jul 29 01:03:43 <kd8ikt> its a amateur radio callsign/letters
Jul 29 01:03:56 <kd8ikt> heh
Jul 29 01:04:18 <kd8ikt> i pronounce it Jaymz  <-- cause thats my name
Jul 29 01:04:50 <kd8ikt> james
Jul 29 01:05:18 <pjz> got it :)
Jul 29 01:05:51 * cesarb sometimes feels nostalgic for the "august snapshot", back when the only things which didn't work were gpsd and suspend
Jul 29 01:06:01 <kd8ikt> i was just flippin through stuff and figureing out the meter bands wifi/gps are  turns out wifi falls in the 13cm band range and GPS is somewhere around 19cm
Jul 29 01:06:30 <kd8ikt> 1.2Ghz 2.4Ghz
Jul 29 01:07:11 <kd8ikt> er i mean GPS is 1.5Ghz
Jul 29 01:08:29 <pjz> cesarb: yeah, I'm more than a little annoyed that moko finds it acceptable to break working code
Jul 29 01:08:46 <cesarb> The august snapshot even had a working full-qwerty keyboard, with no need for crazy slash-adding hacks!
Jul 29 01:09:10 <kd8ikt> howelse will one write rm -rf /
Jul 29 01:09:37 <cesarb> kd8ikt: try "echo ondemand > /sys/devices/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor" :P
Jul 29 01:09:59 * cesarb cannot test cpufreq easily without slashes, since cpufreq tends to hose the usb connection completely
Jul 29 01:10:51 <cesarb> Of course, first I need something which boots on qemu... one branch refuses to boot completely, the other gets lost in a endless stream of NAND debug messages (wrong defconfig :( )
Jul 29 01:11:04 <kd8ikt> /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/?
Jul 29 01:11:19 <cesarb> kd8ikt: something like that, I went from memory right now
Jul 29 01:11:30 <cesarb> kd8ikt: it's been some time since I last was able to do that ;-)
Jul 29 01:11:40 <cesarb> (how long has the keyboard been "broken"?)
Jul 29 01:31:31 <peepsalot> has anyone followed the steps here? http://andreasdalsgaard.blogspot.com/2008/07/openmoko-development-in-5-minutes.html
Jul 29 01:31:46 <peepsalot> on step 3, there is no setup-env in that directory for me
Jul 29 01:31:58 <pjz> drewish: and you guys see Sean's diatribe 'Openmoko on Design'
Jul 29 01:31:59 <pjz> ?
Jul 29 01:32:09 <pjz> er, ack, that wasn't to him
Jul 29 01:32:18 <pjz> you guys see Sean's diatribe 'Openmoko on Design'?
Jul 29 01:32:50 <kd8ikt> yea
Jul 29 01:33:04 <araujo> :-(
Jul 29 01:33:11 <pjz> he's so wrong
Jul 29 01:33:17 <kd8ikt> made me feel like a baaad panda
Jul 29 01:34:02 <pjz> design team can't go skunkworks and expect people to accept their half-done crap that breaks the universe.  release early release often.  And try not to regress functionality.
Jul 29 01:34:54 <pjz> if they share their vision, then we can help.  If they don't, they're going it alone - and may $diety have mercy on their souls
Jul 29 01:35:03 <kd8ikt> oh hai changing /etc/passwd's root user shell to bash, kills openmoko-terminal 
Jul 29 01:35:14 <SirBob1701> can someone link me to that shitheads thing?
Jul 29 01:35:19 <pjz> because there's no way they can out-hack the community
Jul 29 01:35:57 <SirBob1701> ?
Jul 29 01:35:58 <peepsalot> SirBob1701, hmm?
Jul 29 01:36:16 <SirBob1701> Openmoko on Design from sean is it in the list?
Jul 29 01:36:40 <kd8ikt> i got it this morning i could pastebin it for you
Jul 29 01:37:10 <peepsalot> calling him a shithead before even reading it?
Jul 29 01:37:22 <SirBob1701> kd8ikt: ok
Jul 29 01:37:29 <peepsalot> y'all sure are ornery
Jul 29 01:37:31 <SirBob1701> peepsalot: i saw the comments in the illume source
Jul 29 01:38:30 <kd8ikt> http://pastebin.com/m71b05919
Jul 29 01:38:33 <tkep> damn, roadrunner was out for 4 hours....on one of my damn vacation days
Jul 29 01:38:43 <tkep> of all the times for it to do it :(
Jul 29 01:38:46 <kd8ikt> and its unbelievable howmanny people are replying to it
Jul 29 01:39:12 <kd8ikt> dang tkep that sux
Jul 29 01:39:56 <kd8ikt> hm latest kernel seems to be suspending fine for me suddenly
Jul 29 01:40:07 <kd8ikt> also i did add in mwesters userspace fixes
Jul 29 01:40:49 <kd8ikt> http://moko.mwester.net/gtk.html
Jul 29 01:41:37 <kd8ikt> lol whoops actually just visit http://moko.mwester.net/
Jul 29 01:41:54 <kd8ikt> thats a great pic lol
Jul 29 01:42:13 <kd8ikt> havent seen him in a few days but i need to give him a big hug
Jul 29 01:44:21 <SirBob1701> kd8ikt: am i the onlyone that wants to smack him?
Jul 29 01:45:17 <kd8ikt> ~gsm
Jul 29 01:45:18 <apt> it has been said that gsm is a codec, operating at approx 13kbps up/down. four bands worldwide. 850/900/1900/1800MHz. Freerunner comes in two variants, one supporting 900, one 850. 900 is used in europe, and 850 in US. The other two bands in both.
Jul 29 01:45:57 <kd8ikt> i cant remember which one i have  800/850? which ones sold first?
Jul 29 01:47:58 <SirBob1701> crap i'm an idiot whats the default asu repo?
Jul 29 01:48:22 <kd8ikt> the distributions page should say
Jul 29 01:48:28 <SirBob1701> k
Jul 29 01:52:58 <kd8ikt> i want to build my own gps antenna
Jul 29 01:53:59 <kd8ikt> whats great about high freq's is that the antenna size shrinks to make a full wave antenna
Jul 29 01:55:13 <kd8ikt> like a full wave for 10mhz is like 30meters long  whereas a 2.4ghz wifi full wave is like 19cm
Jul 29 01:56:54 <kd8ikt> i mean 13cm
Jul 29 01:57:01 <kd8ikt> i was thinking gps
Jul 29 02:04:04 <kd8ikt> that quit msg is really starting to get to me
Jul 29 02:04:16 <SirBob1701> anyone know where in the .edj that shitty white boarder around the icons in the ASU is set?
Jul 29 02:09:44 <rwhitby> kd8ikt: mwester is on a business trip at the moment.
Jul 29 02:11:46 <rwhitby> pjz: I agree on the design in private stuff happening at moko
Jul 29 02:12:05 <rwhitby> The tone of the whole collaboration with the community has taken a turn for the worse IMHO.
Jul 29 02:16:42 <b4nk> hello hello
Jul 29 02:17:08 <tkep> are we talking about how no one knows what the hell is going on?
Jul 29 02:17:13 <tkep> because i agree.
Jul 29 02:17:14 <tkep> lol
Jul 29 02:17:22 <Vegar> rwhitby: 2007.2 was developed "behind the walls" too
Jul 29 02:17:33 <tkep> all i know is have a phone and i wanna like it more
Jul 29 02:18:25 <b4nk> im debating about getting the freerunner
Jul 29 02:18:49 <kd8ikt> http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y268/freddyart/My%20TUX/tux-g2-freddy_krueger.png
Jul 29 02:18:54 <kd8ikt> heh
Jul 29 02:19:02 <tkep> hahaha
Jul 29 02:19:15 <tkep> that's almost as good as tux's as superheroes 
Jul 29 02:19:22 <tkep> have you seen that one kd8ikt ?
Jul 29 02:21:17 <rwhitby> Vegar: no, 2007.2 was developed at openhand, and then picked up by openmoko.
Jul 29 02:21:30 <rwhitby> (as far as I remember)
Jul 29 02:21:42 <tkep> kd8ikt, http://www.gnome-look.org/CONTENT/content-files/72089-heroes-black_sxga.jpg
Jul 29 02:22:21 <Vegar> rwhitby: yes, but the community didn't know much about it until it was released in a pretty much working state (definitely better than what ASU was/is)
Jul 29 02:23:09 <b4nk> is there a site that will list all packages for openmoko
Jul 29 02:23:12 <rwhitby> Vegar: yeah, that's the difference.  either you keep something closed until it's ready to release, or you are open from the start.  doing it half-way just causes everyone to get angry :-)
Jul 29 02:23:15 <kd8ikt> heh that was neat
Jul 29 02:23:32 * kd8ikt is looking for a tux for the lock screen drag.pic
Jul 29 02:23:48 <tkep> ooooooh
Jul 29 02:23:51 <tkep> that would be cool
Jul 29 02:24:15 <kd8ikt> http://bp2.blogger.com/_UqUwVPikChs/R-DBoHbATaI/AAAAAAAAC_w/tywrzxyDqB8/s320/cisoun-tux-kenny-2198.png   how that one grab ya?
Jul 29 02:24:41 <tkep> hahahaha
Jul 29 02:24:43 <tkep> sweetness
Jul 29 02:24:47 <kd8ikt> i think it'd be good cause of the instability issues i have so "a lot of the time its "DEAD""
Jul 29 02:24:54 <tkep> i think i might copy your idea
Jul 29 02:24:57 <tkep> :)
Jul 29 02:25:03 <tkep> good thinking
Jul 29 02:25:06 <jbn-o> Are people having good experiences with the Freerunner as a phone, putting aside the FLOSS software one can run on it?  I think I'd use it most as an ordinary cellphone.
Jul 29 02:25:27 <tkep> maybe i'll crop out Bat-Tux and use it to scare the suspend into working
Jul 29 02:25:36 <kd8ikt> yeah i can make/recieve calls but battery sucks at present
Jul 29 02:25:49 <tkep> especially since the phone went to watch The Dark Knight with me
Jul 29 02:26:04 <b4nk> did you get butter on it?
Jul 29 02:26:07 <kd8ikt> other then that jbn-o its a good phone and getting better 
Jul 29 02:26:20 <tkep> jbn-o, yes, it gets better reception than my wife's Sony slider (w-510) on Suncom's network, and it is clearer IMO.
Jul 29 02:26:30 <tkep> however, it is a very bad battery hog at the moment
Jul 29 02:26:39 <tkep> i can get about 12-14 hours on a good day right now
Jul 29 02:26:52 <tkep> as kd8ikt said
Jul 29 02:27:12 <kd8ikt> dang really? 14hrs  suspend working for you or something?
Jul 29 02:27:21 <tkep> well, here's the deal
Jul 29 02:27:28 <tkep> before i screwed everything up, it was
Jul 29 02:27:34 <jbn-o> Is the battery life due to doing a lot of computationally intensive 3D transformations with the fancy video or something?
Jul 29 02:27:40 <tkep> i could charge it, sleep overnigt, and have enough juice to make a call in the morning
Jul 29 02:27:42 <tkep> then it would die
Jul 29 02:27:49 <tkep> meaning about 8-10 hours definitely
Jul 29 02:27:56 <tkep> but i assume more, but i'd start charging it
Jul 29 02:28:02 <tkep> however, i reflashed it yesterday
Jul 29 02:28:11 <russellb> so if we were to replace "Comedian Mail", what should we have recorded instead?
Jul 29 02:28:15 <tkep> and did an update, now everything is back to like, 4 hours
Jul 29 02:28:19 <russellb> "Asterisk Voicemail" ?
Jul 29 02:28:23 <russellb> "Asterisk Mail" ?
Jul 29 02:28:29 <tkep> so I assume it was a new update that regressed
Jul 29 02:28:35 <tkep> now i can't set the lock right
Jul 29 02:28:40 <mmaestri> josch: you wrote the initial version of installing debian on the Neo, as I can see. can you help me?
Jul 29 02:28:53 <mmaestri> josch: i mean, on the wiki
Jul 29 02:28:55 <tkep> i just want the phone to dim, not lock, and now it just starts with a lock always
Jul 29 02:29:00 * kd8ikt runs off to try compiling uptimed for it so we can test for sure
Jul 29 02:29:17 <russellb> I totally typed that in the wrong channel.
Jul 29 02:29:24 <josch> mmaestri, whats up?
Jul 29 02:29:38 <SirBob1701> is there an update to geting the qwerty button working in asu?
Jul 29 02:29:56 <mmaestri> josch: first, ask you if you got it working right on the freerunner
Jul 29 02:30:19 <josch> mmaestri, i have no freerunner but others have
Jul 29 02:31:06 <mmaestri> josch: well, i guess that you could help me any way, as i don't fully understand how to put it on the sd card
Jul 29 02:31:14 <tkep> so, i know this is totally broad and probably will not get a good answer, but maybe someone has an idea
Jul 29 02:31:22 <linuxxr> yea mine doesnt lock correctly either
Jul 29 02:31:34 <josch> mmaestri, well this is nothing debian specific
Jul 29 02:31:47 <mmaestri> josch: i've downloaded the rootfs image http://rabenfrost.net/debian/debian-armel-xfce.tar.bz2
Jul 29 02:31:49 <tkep> any clue as to a guess as to when one of the operating systems will be 75%+ functional?  Any of them will do
Jul 29 02:32:07 <tkep> and you can even give me a "Q409" kind of answer
Jul 29 02:32:27 <josch> mmaestri, and you put it onto sd and boot from it as you do with any other rootf - be it asu, gtk or fso
Jul 29 02:33:13 <josch> if you have trouble with this then probably debian isnt for you as it requires a somewhat higher level of understanding to have fun with it 
Jul 29 02:33:24 <josch> it's not some work out of the box thingy
Jul 29 02:33:46 <josch> you will have to be able to fix errors that come up
Jul 29 02:33:57 <kd8ikt> if you have the time to blow playing with it buy it
Jul 29 02:34:01 <josch> maybe ask edistar he got it running on freerunner
Jul 29 02:34:08 <mmaestri> josch: i understand that it requires work and understanding. i'm trying to understand
Jul 29 02:34:28 <josch> mmaestri, okay but there are wikipages that explain how to put stuff on the sd
Jul 29 02:34:35 <josch> so why is this a problem?
Jul 29 02:35:21 <mmaestri> ok
Jul 29 02:36:46 <mmaestri> josch: you're right. i did it before. just that i didn't undestood it before
Jul 29 02:36:51 <mmaestri> thanks
Jul 29 02:40:39 <peepsalot> tkep 75% of what
Jul 29 02:40:51 <peepsalot> you'd have to define what 100% would be first
Jul 29 02:41:06 <peepsalot> not that I'd have an answer even if you did
Jul 29 02:41:09 <tkep> it wa meant to be very blurry
Jul 29 02:41:13 <tkep> was*
Jul 29 02:41:31 <tkep> but, i'd consider battery management/life to be a big chunk of that
Jul 29 02:41:41 <tkep> considering it is a mobile phone OS
Jul 29 02:42:22 <peepsalot> if I had to guess, i'd say that it's 25% functional today, and maybe getting 1% more functional every week.  so by that estimate, it will take 50 weeks to be 75% functional
Jul 29 02:42:23 <kd8ikt> http://www.b12partners.net/mt/Toles_10242007_telecom.gif
Jul 29 02:42:27 <peepsalot> :-P
Jul 29 02:42:43 <tkep> so, say that's 25%, making calls is 25%, and not having to tap 30 times to open an appy sometimes, then we'll be at 75%
Jul 29 02:42:54 <tkep> right now, i'd say we're at 25.6%
Jul 29 02:43:00 <tkep> because it makes and receives calls
Jul 29 02:43:07 <tkep> and that's about it :P
Jul 29 02:46:47 <tkep> anyone know of a good case for the freerunner?
Jul 29 02:47:07 <tkep> i have been using my microsoft neoprene mouse pouch
Jul 29 02:47:08 <pjz> tkep: the default one is fairly nice, though it lacks a stylus & holder
Jul 29 02:47:16 <tkep> but it doesn't fit right
Jul 29 02:47:20 <pjz> tkep: oh, you mean carry case
Jul 29 02:47:23 <tkep> pjz, i didn't get a default one
Jul 29 02:47:27 <tkep> yeah
Jul 29 02:47:28 <tkep> sorry
Jul 29 02:47:30 * pjz carries it bare in his pocket
Jul 29 02:47:34 <tkep> should have specified
Jul 29 02:47:52 * tkep is afraid of damaging his $400 gadget
Jul 29 02:48:00 <kd8ikt> http://geektechnique.org/projectlab/781/slurpr-the-mother-of-all-wardrive-boxes
Jul 29 02:48:01 * pjz carries cellphone in right-front pocket, wallet & keys in left front
Jul 29 02:48:11 <kd8ikt> wow dude i suddenly want to make one of those
Jul 29 02:48:54 <kd8ikt> heh 6 wifi cards in it
Jul 29 02:49:29 <tkep> kd8ikt, holy mother of Krishna
Jul 29 02:49:36 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * rc11b95784df0 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/abstract/mediator.py: 
Jul 29 02:49:36 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: ogpsd: Don't split names that contain a comma in RetrievePhonebook and RetrieveEntry
Jul 29 02:49:36 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: This resulted in a nasty segfault, preventing the phone functionality
Jul 29 02:49:36 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: to work properly. Fixes #53
Jul 29 02:49:50 <kd8ikt> at creating multi routes for a dual or more homed network 
Jul 29 02:49:57 <kd8ikt> i'm at a loss
Jul 29 02:50:00 <tkep> so, i guess it works on bonding?
Jul 29 02:50:07 <tkep> but it must do some wicked stuff
Jul 29 02:50:23 <tkep> because basic bonding to make a fatter pipe requires a compliant gateway/router
Jul 29 02:50:27 <peepsalot> are the kernels distro specific? or can i use the same kernel for all distros? 
Jul 29 02:50:30 <tkep> and, obviously, this isn't one
Jul 29 02:50:45 <peepsalot> supposing i have a multi-boot setup
Jul 29 02:50:51 <kd8ikt> like my openwrt router can connect to an AP and be wired (wan)  but i dunno how to go about load balancing 
Jul 29 02:51:15 <tkep> kd8ikt, it would take some work...i know with RH based distros, you can do a simple bond
Jul 29 02:51:27 <tkep> but it requires more than just that to make it balance
Jul 29 02:51:38 <kd8ikt> yea it need some logic
Jul 29 02:52:03 <kd8ikt> and measure the current in/out bytes  and howmuch throughput it has
Jul 29 02:52:11 <kd8ikt> complicated stuff
Jul 29 02:52:52 <tkep> man.
Jul 29 02:52:56 * tkep wants
Jul 29 02:53:11 <kd8ikt> like i live in a townhouse and i'd love it if i could get everyone to point their highspeed modems to my one openwrt router and have multi homed internet for us all
Jul 29 02:53:46 <kd8ikt> but i doubt that would evr happen
Jul 29 02:54:27 <kd8ikt> cause people wanna play games and have ports forwarded wich complicate the heck out of an already overly complicated setup
Jul 29 02:55:18 <kd8ikt> iptables --just-do-what-i-want
Jul 29 02:55:51 <peepsalot> any distros automatically read sim contacts?
Jul 29 02:56:01 <kd8ikt> think they all do
Jul 29 02:56:10 <kd8ikt> i know 2007.2 does
Jul 29 02:56:18 <peepsalot> since when?
Jul 29 02:56:23 <peepsalot> doesn't work for me
Jul 29 02:56:31 <kd8ikt> hm
Jul 29 02:56:32 <tkep> actually kd8ikt, now that i think about it, it wouldn't help me too terribly much
Jul 29 02:56:40 <peepsalot> it shows all the people in your contact list?
Jul 29 02:56:54 <kd8ikt> yup then again i only have like 10
Jul 29 02:57:06 <kd8ikt> i really dont use my phone too often
Jul 29 02:57:11 <tkep> with the QoS rules already on my Tomato router, the only thing I'd gain is the ability to keep torrents going 100% while playing xbox live
Jul 29 02:57:13 <pjz> peepsalot: I had to reboot twice to get it to read all my contacts
Jul 29 02:57:14 <peepsalot> well, poo
Jul 29 02:57:19 <tkep> or guild wars
Jul 29 02:57:23 <peepsalot> i guess it doesn't like my sim
Jul 29 02:57:25 <pjz> peepsalot: so try rebooting and see if that helps
Jul 29 02:57:32 <peepsalot> i've rebooted many times
Jul 29 02:57:37 <tkep> since it doesn't make a fatter pipe really, just more pipes...
Jul 29 02:57:38 <jtickle> so what's the word with today's ASU update?  my system isn't bricked, although X will not start
Jul 29 02:57:39 <kd8ikt> heh windows fix
Jul 29 02:57:58 <tkep> kinda like multiple cores on a cpu, doesn't make applications faster unless they know what to do with multiple threads
Jul 29 02:58:11 <tkep> the apps would have to be aware of the multiple pipes...
Jul 29 02:58:34 <kd8ikt> multi pipes= fatter pipe but single connection downlaods will only utilize the moset of that one route its going
Jul 29 02:58:49 <tkep> kd8ikt, yeah, that's my point really
Jul 29 02:58:59 <kd8ikt> yeah torrents would kick butt
Jul 29 02:59:02 <kd8ikt> heh
Jul 29 02:59:09 <tkep> if the fastest connection you have on it is 10mbit, then that's all you could pull from a single connection
Jul 29 02:59:18 <tkep> torrents would be the only thing.  but i'm not hurting there
Jul 29 02:59:25 <tkep> so my 7mbit down is still doing fine
Jul 29 02:59:34 <tkep> i just need more uplink!!!
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jul 29 02:59:56 2008