**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 28 02:59:56 2008 Aug 28 03:04:09 :( well, that long-ass debian install didn't work Aug 28 03:04:21 probably because I'm on a 1973 Aug 28 03:05:51 if I had the monies I'd just suck it up and get a freerunner Aug 28 03:08:54 oh :| Aug 28 03:10:02 maybe the manual steps will work Aug 28 03:10:28 hoep so Aug 28 03:11:23 unable to read /boot/uImage blah blah Aug 28 03:11:26 bad magic number Aug 28 03:11:28 pfffft Aug 28 03:11:47 :X Aug 28 03:13:16 paroneayea: you need to update the u-boot and the alter the u-boot environment (see the other script) Aug 28 03:13:39 pabs3: oooo Aug 28 03:14:08 I had to do the same to get it to boot afterwards Aug 28 03:15:05 oh Aug 28 03:15:16 I'm afraid of bricking my device a little x_x Aug 28 03:15:24 II) Set boot partition to be vfat by running SD_PART1_FS=vfat ./install.sh all. Now you do not need to mess with modifying default U-Boot setup. Aug 28 03:15:28 maybe I should do that. Aug 28 03:15:45 thinking contacts should have close and new buttons and a list of contacts, you touch the contact and get a set of options based on the info entered (call, text, e-mail, etc) then a selection of numbers/addresses so like Friend > Call > Home, Work, Cell, Work Cell, etc opinions? Aug 28 03:16:15 That "default u-boot setup" vfat thing refers to the Freerunner only Aug 28 03:16:28 yeah, I don't have a freerunner :( Aug 28 03:17:18 oh, anyonw know if there is a wiki page that tells where the config for the kernel options is? i'd like to add quiet :) Aug 28 03:17:33 paroneayea: how big is your microsd card? Aug 28 03:17:53 mmontour: not too big... only the default 500 mb one. Just ordered some bigger ones though Aug 28 03:18:00 er, ordered *a* bigger one Aug 28 03:18:28 AntonTakk: probably in u-boot env settings. from a running kernel, cat /proc/cmdline Aug 28 03:18:41 that's ok. Neo1973 can't boot the kernel from SDHC (>= 4G) but smaller than that is OK Aug 28 03:19:31 ok... hm Aug 28 03:19:55 SD_PART1_FS=vfat ./install.sh all <- so do you think this route would or wouldn't work Aug 28 03:19:56 ? Aug 28 03:20:52 I have not looked at the Debian scripts at all. A vfat kernel partition would help if your u-boot has the bug that prevents it from accessing ext2/3 filesystems Aug 28 03:21:13 ok Aug 28 03:21:27 so, think I should install it manually? Aug 28 03:21:35 wow, tangogps takes forever to download map tile bunches... Aug 28 03:22:49 I'd be wary of running any Freerunner scripts on the 1973 because the flash partitions have different numbers. I recommend setting up your u-boot environment manually (see the "Booting from SD" wiki page - it's a mess, but it should have the info you need) Aug 28 03:23:09 man i have way too much on my todo list Aug 28 03:23:11 k Aug 28 03:23:20 thx Aug 28 03:30:34 has anyone come up with a good way of telling if the FR is "doing something" and not suspending if it is? Aug 28 03:30:57 for instance, I can't go to sleep until this thing finishes download map tiles for tangogps because I need to manually re-enable suspend when it finishes Aug 28 03:31:19 if there were a script to detect the activity, I could leave suspend turned on and it just wouldn't suspend until it finished Aug 28 03:32:55 best way to do that would be some kinda signal sent by individual apps to the power management daemons Aug 28 03:33:04 don't think it exists yet though Aug 28 03:34:57 hmm Aug 28 03:35:08 is there a program that can batch-download tiles for tangogps? Aug 28 03:35:29 so that I don't have to use tangogps's clunky interface that seems to limit me to 5 levels of zoom? Aug 28 03:35:30 tango can do it, click on map download in the context menu Aug 28 03:35:57 AFAICT, the max download from inside tangogps is only 5 levels more than what's on the screen Aug 28 03:36:11 I want "everything currently on the screen to the maximum zoom level" Aug 28 03:36:38 for instance, I live in MA... I want the entire state at a zoom level close enough to show street names Aug 28 03:36:51 and part of NH, since I often drive to the manchester airport Aug 28 03:38:32 there was one Aug 28 03:39:14 also, I assume this thing is smart enough to not download maps more than once if it already has it? Aug 28 03:39:20 for instance, I've been downloading overlapping chunks Aug 28 03:40:31 anyone happen to know how to do quote in python like using */..../* in C/php? Aug 28 03:40:42 # Aug 28 03:40:52 # ... \ Aug 28 03:41:11 so # (multiple lines here \ ? Aug 28 03:41:16 no Aug 28 03:41:19 AntonTakk: firstly, it's /* ... */, and no, I don't know what it is in python Aug 28 03:41:36 # (one line) \ Aug 28 03:41:41 (next line) \ Aug 28 03:41:47 (next line) Aug 28 03:41:51 python might not even have multiline comments... it seems to have a lot of weird idiosyncrasies Aug 28 03:42:00 i doubt it does Aug 28 03:42:03 python rocks Aug 28 03:42:10 python sure is great Aug 28 03:42:11 slow Aug 28 03:42:12 but great Aug 28 03:42:22 not suitable for a core application Aug 28 03:42:33 in a restricted environment Aug 28 03:42:36 tell that to all the people trying to use it for major apps Aug 28 03:42:40 perhaps youre right Aug 28 03:42:52 but still, quite great Aug 28 03:42:55 maybe i should be deving this on my desktop in c or c++ Aug 28 03:43:08 AntonTakk: what are you making? Aug 28 03:43:18 contacts mgr for fso Aug 28 03:43:23 I see Aug 28 03:43:31 that'd be fine in python Aug 28 03:43:37 my $0.02 is that would be a pretty major app for a scripting language Aug 28 03:43:40 it's not something that requires alot fo speed Aug 28 03:43:44 oh, yes it id Aug 28 03:43:45 *is Aug 28 03:43:52 it's what makes the phone a phone Aug 28 03:44:09 woops, for a moment there, applied my own habits to everyone else Aug 28 03:44:14 i don't aquire many contacts Aug 28 03:44:16 prolly the #1 complaint about both ASU and 2007.2 is that the contacts and dailer apps take too long to launch and are slow Aug 28 03:44:35 07 is faster than 08, imo Aug 28 03:44:43 it's not terribly important to be able to enter contacts quickly, imho Aug 28 03:44:54 but to be able to open it, pick someone off the list, and call/text them needs to be quick Aug 28 03:45:09 true Aug 28 03:45:17 i like the 07 sms better Aug 28 03:45:21 well, ideally it'll be a few functions for putting/pulling contact info to/from sqlite db and/or sim and the rest will be the gui Aug 28 03:45:25 too many screens to go through Aug 28 03:45:26 it looks more like a chat Aug 28 03:45:48 sounds fine to me, AntonTakk Aug 28 03:46:02 I find the 2008.8 SMS app to be very confusing because it's just typing on a blank screen... there's no indication of what's the message body and what isn't (but I guess everything is the body?) Aug 28 03:46:04 however, evolution data imo would be more condusive to syncing with a computer Aug 28 03:46:20 rooly: yeah, was kinda thinking along those lines Aug 28 03:46:37 but then, that's par for the course with the ASU UI, which looks basically like someone made a quick flash app that renders white text on a default black background Aug 28 03:46:45 also using evo's back ends can get us other nice things in other places, not to mention easy integration Aug 28 03:46:45 lol Aug 28 03:47:01 but, to hell with the old stack! let's start brand new! Aug 28 03:47:07 i mean...seriously Aug 28 03:47:11 * Yanroy prefers evolution as well Aug 28 03:47:18 rooly: it's called fso ;) Aug 28 03:47:27 how about SHR? Aug 28 03:47:29 i just dispise the asu Aug 28 03:47:34 *despise Aug 28 03:47:40 I've been using the ASU as my primary phone since it came out Aug 28 03:47:47 (used 2007.2 before that) Aug 28 03:47:53 my FR has been my only phone since I got it Aug 28 03:47:54 either of you ever done any dev against evo back ends? Aug 28 03:48:00 nope Aug 28 03:48:02 nah Aug 28 03:48:05 i'm a 3d dev Aug 28 03:48:12 working on a google-earth like gps app Aug 28 03:48:15 heh Aug 28 03:48:20 nice Aug 28 03:48:48 the trick will be seperating the 3d render thread, and resource management Aug 28 03:49:36 pffffffffft Aug 28 03:49:38 resource management... Aug 28 03:49:45 my FR outperforms my windows desktop at work Aug 28 03:49:49 lol Aug 28 03:49:50 I think you'll be fine Aug 28 03:50:00 but i only have a fraction of 128 megs to work with Aug 28 03:50:01 and no swap Aug 28 03:50:07 well, the last time i did any real coding, it was c++, and compiled w/o so much as a warning, the next time I played with writing an app, gpp or wtf ever the command is/was errored out on the initial include statements :-\ that was a good 5 or better years ago now :) Aug 28 03:50:46 hmm Aug 28 03:50:48 rather rusty Aug 28 03:50:51 AntonTakk: well, they did drop the .h from the end of the names of the standard includes a few years back... Aug 28 03:51:01 (note the source it errored on was the same program that compiled w/o errors before) Aug 28 03:51:20 yeah, i found that out Aug 28 03:51:23 also, now they require you to use namespace std (or better yet, use the namespace resolution operator on your declarations) Aug 28 03:51:24 still didn't help Aug 28 03:52:11 w00t Aug 28 03:52:21 i've shurnk my dependencies to 2 Aug 28 03:52:30 corse i did have some interesting pointer-foo Aug 28 03:53:08 * rooly honetsly rathers messing with a makefile by hand than waiting on a ./configure Aug 28 03:53:21 was doing math on 3d matrices and generating the 3d arrays based on user input :) Aug 28 03:53:44 AntonTakk, ! Aug 28 03:53:45 lol Aug 28 03:53:52 is this enough of an optimization: -fexpensive-optimizations -03 -0s Aug 28 03:53:58 * daMaestro is trying out the new release Aug 28 03:54:15 get this Aug 28 03:54:16 gah, i keep getting: Starting download: [#####dfu_download error -110 Aug 28 03:54:16 Error during download Aug 28 03:54:24 eww Aug 28 03:54:29 i was at an open-source group meeting today Aug 28 03:54:36 i showed my phone to people Aug 28 03:54:49 daMaestro: yeah, i wouldn't be suprised if that little 100 line-or-so app leaked memory like win95 ;) Aug 28 03:54:52 and they ACTUALLY knew what it was! Aug 28 03:55:04 rooly: were they green with envy? Aug 28 03:55:08 a little Aug 28 03:55:20 one said he wanted to get one but was waiting till it got back in stock Aug 28 03:55:25 I've yet to meet anyone outside my circle of friends that knows what it is, much less that has one Aug 28 03:55:26 i told him "koolu, foo" Aug 28 03:55:32 but pretty much all my friends have them :P Aug 28 03:55:49 i'm the only hacker in my circle Aug 28 03:55:57 hell, in my area Aug 28 03:56:01 then its not so much a circle as a point Aug 28 03:56:02 to a good extent... Aug 28 03:56:20 and then i'm not a very well versed hacker Aug 28 03:56:33 it's bad that i'm leading the pack when i'm not very good Aug 28 03:56:35 same here, cept my "circle of friends" kinda of doesn't extend outside immediate family and the rest of the it department at work :) Aug 28 03:56:40 btw, is there a button in tangogps to recenter the view on your location? I thought there was in the old release (2007.2) but can't find it in ASU Aug 28 03:56:46 yes Aug 28 03:56:49 it's there Aug 28 03:56:54 but you have to find the correct gtk theme Aug 28 03:57:01 grr Aug 28 03:57:02 which i found once but never again Aug 28 03:57:11 why wouldn't it come with the right theme? Aug 28 03:57:20 hell, why are there themes at all? Aug 28 03:57:29 themes are irritating crap Aug 28 03:57:30 so you could turn om2007.2 blue Aug 28 03:57:41 I don't want it to be blue, I want it to be functional Aug 28 03:57:43 i'm annoyed the dropped the old stack Aug 28 03:57:50 if everyone would just design with one theme, we wouldn't have these issues Aug 28 03:58:01 but it's linux man Aug 28 03:58:05 gotta be changeable Aug 28 03:58:09 are there any stable kernel images for debian, that support usb host mode? Aug 28 03:58:16 if you want a new theme, switch windowing systems :P Aug 28 03:58:43 for instance, i changed my lock screen from the fugly green thing with the om symbol to the black/orange more spartan one Aug 28 03:58:58 the unlock method is much more obvious now Aug 28 03:59:02 if I wanted pretty, I'd have gotten an iphone Aug 28 03:59:08 * johnsu01 is trying to figure out why qtopia pppd is still trying chap and other things when the peers file tells it not to Aug 28 04:00:53 * Yanroy really just wants bash in his pocket Aug 28 04:01:19 alrighty, time for bed Aug 28 04:01:24 night all Aug 28 04:24:54 AntonTakk, it was myself being stupid and using -a kernel with the rootfs image ;-) Aug 28 04:25:49 will Om2008.8-gta02-20080828 automagically use the new repos? Aug 28 04:26:53 johnsu01: qtopia uses /opt/Qtopia/bin/ppp-network Aug 28 04:27:15 ljp: I figured it out, I just needed to put a line in chap-secrets Aug 28 04:34:07 |Marco|: did you manage to get mofi working? Aug 28 04:41:48 well, it's on gprs, but not setting the nameserver correctly.. I can ping IPs but not names Aug 28 04:44:47 johnsu01: try echo nameserver 4.2.2.1 > /etc/resolv.conf Aug 28 04:45:05 Daenyth: sure, I can do it manually, but I need it to come up when the ppp connection comes up Aug 28 04:45:34 johnsu01: edit /etc/networks/interfaces and add (or edit an existing line) "up echo 4.2.2.1 > /etc/resolv.conf" Aug 28 04:46:13 assuming static Aug 28 04:46:20 yeah, it's not static Aug 28 04:46:23 hmm Aug 28 04:46:27 should work anyway Aug 28 04:46:30 put it as the last up line Aug 28 04:50:05 Daenyth: well, the usepeerdns option for ppp should work, but I think the problem is that there is other networking going on Aug 28 04:50:37 johnsu01: I believe you have to ifconfig the other interfaces down, or the default routes will get confused? Aug 28 04:51:52 yeah.... there is a replacedefaultroute option.. Aug 28 04:52:56 alright, 10 compiles later, and i have my working version of the graphics lib Aug 28 04:53:22 32bit pixels, zbuffer/wbuffer correct Aug 28 04:53:27 a few other things Aug 28 04:53:32 rtt supported Aug 28 04:55:07 2 dependencies Aug 28 04:55:12 irrlicht, and SDL Aug 28 04:55:19 woo hoo Aug 28 04:55:22 is there any way to forward my laptop keyboard and make it appear as a USB keyboard on the freerunner? Aug 28 04:55:35 2.0 megs Aug 28 05:00:42 so, how can i type a number in my wireless key? Aug 28 05:00:58 pabs3, synergy? Aug 28 05:01:01 pabs3, ;-) Aug 28 05:01:21 ya, just remembered that now Aug 28 05:01:36 hrm Aug 28 05:01:54 not seeing any python libs for evolution backends in fso repos Aug 28 05:02:20 yeah...you'll either have to wrap 'em or write 'em Aug 28 05:02:28 hrm Aug 28 05:02:38 ahhh cool Aug 28 05:02:41 don't know how to do either Aug 28 05:02:58 i believe there are python wrapping apps available Aug 28 05:02:59 it's to the right of the keyboard, you just "scroll" up and it flips the input around Aug 28 05:03:57 There a guide for getting Debian on the actual Freerunner harddrive instead of the SD card yet? Aug 28 05:18:59 Hmm, what would be a better(Read:Faster) window manager than Xfce that you can use fine without use of a right-click? Aug 28 05:19:15 no desktop wm's Aug 28 05:19:17 pretty much Aug 28 05:19:22 unless heavily modified Aug 28 05:22:26 e is probably the only "desktop wm" that will work Aug 28 05:22:30 but u need a module to modify it Aug 28 05:22:34 and config changes Aug 28 05:22:37 (and theme) Aug 28 05:22:46 Dang Aug 28 05:22:47 i guess maybe ion3 might work.. Aug 28 05:22:58 but invariably these other wm's rely on keyboard controls a lot Aug 28 05:23:03 to work - not mouse Aug 28 05:23:11 and thus doesnt work well for a system with.. no keyboard Aug 28 05:23:12 :) Aug 28 05:23:20 >_> Matchbox works. Aug 28 05:23:29 yup Aug 28 05:23:44 What kinda keyboard-only Window managers would you reccomend? Aug 28 05:23:46 not a "desktop wm" Aug 28 05:23:50 designed for "embedded" Aug 28 05:24:00 i don't Aug 28 05:24:02 i use e Aug 28 05:24:03 :) Aug 28 05:24:08 but i'm biased Aug 28 05:24:13 and i'll admit that :) Aug 28 05:24:31 Well I mean, anything that'd work on Debian. Aug 28 05:24:45 anything will work Aug 28 05:24:51 just need to compile it :) Aug 28 05:25:11 Right, but I mean what would be.. Err, Fast? :p Aug 28 05:25:24 fast to run Aug 28 05:25:27 or fast to get on? Aug 28 05:25:43 and u may not realise how little a wm has to do wiht generla speed of apps Aug 28 05:25:53 Fast to run. Aug 28 05:25:59 Don't really care how long it takes to start up Aug 28 05:26:08 what do you mean by wm? Aug 28 05:26:19 or do you mean "desktop environment" Aug 28 05:26:43 Err, Xfce as example. Or fluxbox for another. Aug 28 05:26:54 xfce does much more than fluxbox Aug 28 05:27:42 Right, but I don't need to much. Just a graphical way of opening programs like Iceweasel and the Zhone app. Preferably though, something that takes low RAM usage. Aug 28 05:27:49 very big levels of functionality difference Aug 28 05:28:05 u could use matchbox Aug 28 05:28:07 or fluxbox Aug 28 05:28:23 e would do it too (e+illume+config profiles it comes with etc.) Aug 28 05:28:25 Doesn't Fluxbox work off like, 100% right clicking though? Aug 28 05:28:30 dunno Aug 28 05:28:32 dont use fluxbox Aug 28 05:28:33 :) Aug 28 05:28:35 Ah Aug 28 05:28:35 i use e Aug 28 05:28:37 :) Aug 28 05:28:43 I thought you said you don't use e? Aug 28 05:28:43 xD Aug 28 05:28:48 no Aug 28 05:28:49 i do Aug 28 05:28:50 What's the link to e's webside? Aug 28 05:28:53 *website Aug 28 05:28:54 i dont use the other wm's Aug 28 05:28:57 Ahh Aug 28 05:28:57 i write e Aug 28 05:29:06 thus <- bisased Aug 28 05:29:07 :) Aug 28 05:29:14 e is what is used in ASU and FSO Aug 28 05:29:15 for om Aug 28 05:29:20 Oh wait, you mean enlightenment? Aug 28 05:29:33 (illume is the plugin that modifies e to behave differently) Aug 28 05:29:34 yes Aug 28 05:32:15 ok, i'm not going to be ambitious enough to write python support for evolution data server Aug 28 05:32:24 gonna use sqlite instead Aug 28 05:38:04 :( Aug 28 05:38:35 thus far the only recent image I've gotten to work with the 1973 is the qtopia one Aug 28 05:39:34 the 2008.8 release didn't even have a 1973 version, and the nightlies don't work... FSO phase 2 didn't start X... to what extent are people still working on the 1973? Aug 28 05:43:21 paroneayea: you're not going to like this Aug 28 05:43:33 but really - 1973 is not well supported Aug 28 05:43:35 support exists Aug 28 05:43:38 and some will happen Aug 28 05:43:50 but really - om themselves dont have many 1973's Aug 28 05:43:54 as best i know om only has 1 Aug 28 05:44:01 ah Aug 28 05:44:12 so cumminity can do support - gut there are only like 1000 or so 1973's around Aug 28 05:44:20 and even then - how many of them are actively used? Aug 28 05:44:25 so maybe a few hundred 1973's Aug 28 05:44:30 thats a VERY small community Aug 28 05:44:47 so the answer is Aug 28 05:44:58 if u want it supported - u need to do it - not wait for someone to do it for you Aug 28 05:45:23 with the exception of gps Aug 28 05:45:34 you have everything you need (source etc.) Aug 28 05:47:13 raster: yeah, I understand that technically I have everything I need... these days I'm pretty much spending most of my time outside of work volunteering on Miro though, so for the most part I was just hoping to be able to jump-start with the FSO release so I could start hacking some python apps.. I'd rather be doing the software building side than the packaging/distro side Aug 28 05:48:56 realizing that, I guess I'll probably wait to get into development then until I can afford a GTA02/03, or have a weekend to explore getting the FSO to work on the 1973 Aug 28 05:49:48 does windows charge my neo? i discharged it completly and sadly i got only windows at work, i started using nokia's battery, and now replace that discharged battery and there is NO charging indicator ...any idea? Aug 28 05:49:51 you may need to fix up fso Aug 28 05:49:56 but it should be able to work Aug 28 05:50:04 marcinsoo: no Aug 28 05:50:22 so i got troubles :) Aug 28 05:50:48 windows will not power up a usb device to 500ma unless u have a driver Aug 28 05:51:06 raster : i've got driver Aug 28 05:51:20 Where can you get a driver like that? Aug 28 05:51:39 does the driver also power it up to 500ma? Aug 28 05:51:54 i have no idea Aug 28 05:52:06 i can't see charging indicator Aug 28 05:52:15 so i am pretty worried Aug 28 05:52:17 unless it does - the FR wont charge Aug 28 05:52:19 u need it at 500ma Aug 28 05:52:35 it also may not be charge if the battery is full Aug 28 05:53:48 ok, then i have to stay connected whole day Aug 28 05:54:14 basically tho - it's a windows problem as such. linux happily powers it up to 500ma Aug 28 05:54:27 so my guess is the windows "driver" you have is not Aug 28 05:54:36 do you get a new ethernet device in windows? Aug 28 05:54:50 ok i see, what if i booted by eg. Knoppix ? Aug 28 05:55:11 it'd work Aug 28 05:55:12 yeep Aug 28 05:55:26 basically in windows it will recognise u have a usb device Aug 28 05:55:34 then ask for a driver when u plug in your FR Aug 28 05:56:01 if you dont have an appropriate driver u'll never get the FR powered so it can charge Aug 28 05:56:03 Hrm, how can you switch between desktop managers on Debian? Aug 28 05:56:09 there is a wall charger you can use Aug 28 05:56:18 or - write a driver for windows Aug 28 05:56:27 or find one that works (no idea if it exists) Aug 28 05:56:40 Infinyte: window managers, desktop environments or display managers? Aug 28 05:56:42 or dont use windows (use linux which will do the right thing out of the box) Aug 28 05:56:45 Infinyte: what are desktop managers? Aug 28 05:56:47 raster : thanks a lot Aug 28 05:57:02 Err.. >_> Like, switch from Xfce to Blackbox. Aug 28 05:57:39 Infinyte: .xsession is the per-user way Aug 28 05:58:27 Hrm? Aug 28 05:58:41 xwmconfig in slackware Aug 28 05:59:20 Infinyte: yes, you start what you want from ~/.xsession Aug 28 05:59:38 Ah alrighty. Aug 28 06:00:00 exec blackbox or something Aug 28 06:04:26 Hmm, nuttin' happens. Haha. Aug 28 06:04:37 Infinyte: strace? Aug 28 06:06:24 Lemme install that.. There any way to monitor RAM/CPU usage of the Freerunner in Debian? Aug 28 06:06:33 tio Aug 28 06:06:34 top Aug 28 06:07:33 Pardon? Aug 28 06:07:44 openmoko: 03john_lee 07org.openmoko.dev * r0f7b2e132641 10/packages/openmoko-projects/illume_svn.bb: illume: remote the duplicate package in openmoko-projects. Aug 28 06:07:44 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.dev * r34efaac13928 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): update efl and e to latest - fix segv on startup, gsm now doesnt use gsmget Aug 28 06:07:45 openmoko: 03john_lee 07org.openmoko.dev * rb71c1d4fdd19 10/packages/e17/e-wm_svn.bb: e-wm: bugfix, specify the path to eet as well. Aug 28 06:07:45 openmoko: 03john_lee 07org.openmoko.dev * rb28671dece02 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: sane-srcrevs.inc: remove the duplicated pn-illume, make it in sync Aug 28 06:07:47 Oh and Lindi, it says "no managable screens found" when I do that. Haha. Aug 28 06:07:48 openmoko: 03john_lee 07org.openmoko.dev * rd2569f1e9002 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): illume-theme-asu: change to svn and use asu config by default Aug 28 06:07:51 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.dev * r42f5092e2ff3 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: up illume srcrev Aug 28 06:08:18 Infinyte: top Aug 28 06:08:55 OH Aug 28 06:08:56 Haha. I see. Aug 28 06:08:58 :D Aug 28 06:09:09 Oh that's cool. Aug 28 06:09:10 Thanke Aug 28 06:09:32 * raster smells a unix/linux n00b scent in the air :) Aug 28 06:10:10 >_> Yes yes. Aug 28 06:10:13 Well, sorta. Aug 28 06:10:22 I mean I've used Ubuntu for upwards of 5 years now. Aug 28 06:10:29 seriously - you may have bitten off more than u can chew with a FR Aug 28 06:10:40 But I'm a GUI monster. Aug 28 06:10:51 if u aren't poretty much completely into linux... you will find a lot of hard stuff Aug 28 06:10:57 monster? Aug 28 06:11:01 Yush Aug 28 06:11:04 You know? Aug 28 06:11:07 Like the Cookie Monster? Aug 28 06:11:07 no Aug 28 06:11:09 <_< Aug 28 06:11:14 oh Aug 28 06:11:18 Always wantin' them cookies. Aug 28 06:11:19 u like eating gooey stuff? Aug 28 06:11:19 :) Aug 28 06:11:22 LOl Aug 28 06:11:36 Ah it's okay. I like a chalange. Aug 28 06:12:49 Woah, the phone is using all but 20 Megs of Ram running Xfce. o_O Aug 28 06:13:03 Infinyte: when you do what? Aug 28 06:13:20 Infinyte: VSZ or RSS? Aug 28 06:13:22 Err, I just have one Terminal up and the Matchbox keyboard. Aug 28 06:13:48 Infinyte: that was reply to < Infinyte> Oh and Lindi, it says "no managable screens found" when I do that. Haha. Aug 28 06:14:21 Oh Aug 28 06:14:47 When I do "strace blackbox" Aug 28 06:17:05 Infinyte: blackbox source code does not contain that string Aug 28 06:17:17 Ah. Aug 28 06:17:31 Infinyte: please "strace -o strace.out -s256 -f blackbox" and put strace.out online Aug 28 06:22:41 Hmm, that would probably work. But it won't work through ssh, and when I do it in the Freerunner it wants me to close xfce, of course doing so leaves me without a keyboard. xD Aug 28 06:23:20 Infinyte: why won't it work through ssh? Aug 28 06:23:34 It says "Failed to open display" Aug 28 06:23:46 Infinyte: you tell it the right DISPLAY Aug 28 06:24:20 it's just an environment variable that tells where the X server is Aug 28 06:24:36 Ahh Aug 28 06:26:53 So what would be the right Display? Aug 28 06:28:01 Aww, nevermind. I don't wanna be a bother. xP Aug 28 06:28:09 Infinyte: just look it up under X if you really don't know? Aug 28 06:28:55 Infinyte: Do you mean to run an app via ssh on the FR? If so, use DISPLAY=:0 Aug 28 06:35:15 Woah Aug 28 06:35:17 I did it :D Aug 28 06:35:53 abraxa_: Good morning! :) Aug 28 06:37:04 I copied the /etc/init.d/zhone-session and made a blackbox one (/etc/init.d/blackbox) and changed PROG_FSO= to /usr/bin/blackbox and then ran /etc/init.d/blackbox start after stopping xfce Aug 28 06:37:06 Mornin'. Aug 28 06:37:14 Only one problem now. Aug 28 06:37:25 Blackbox appears to be completely useless without right-click. Aug 28 06:37:27 XDD Aug 28 06:38:51 Same thing works for fluxbox. But it seems to be pretty right-click based too. As far as I can tell. Aug 28 06:39:14 a desktop wm will just not work well on a device like a phone Aug 28 06:39:14 :) Aug 28 06:39:17 as i said before Aug 28 06:39:19 :) Aug 28 06:39:41 Well if I could find some way to emulate right click.. :< Aug 28 06:40:57 Or maybe find a way to open the matchbox keyboard in one of them Aug 28 06:42:37 I wonder if ROX is in the repos.. Aug 28 06:45:27 Ah, yup. Aug 28 06:48:04 maybe try click and hold for right click. thats a common substitute Aug 28 06:49:25 That sounds like an idea, but how would I make it do that? O_o Aug 28 06:50:04 is there a terminal in the default debian install? Aug 28 06:50:19 or does one have to use USB the first time? Aug 28 06:51:15 There is Aug 28 06:51:20 Open the Matchbox Keyboard Aug 28 06:51:37 And press CTRL ALT and then X Aug 28 06:51:40 i cant see anything except the phone apps and GPS Aug 28 06:51:42 And it'll open a big 'ol terminal, with the keyboard still there. Aug 28 06:51:56 huh? Aug 28 06:52:05 so, i have to login with usbnet, then Aug 28 06:52:11 No.. Aug 28 06:52:38 how can i press ctrl-alt-x if i dont have a keyboard installed? Aug 28 06:52:42 Just open the keyboard (Press the button on the top left of the phone) and press on CTRL, ALT and X Aug 28 06:52:48 oh Aug 28 06:52:50 It should be installed already Aug 28 06:52:52 hmmm Aug 28 06:53:00 how does one open the keyboard Aug 28 06:53:15 The button on the top left of the phone itself. Aug 28 06:53:24 You know, the little rectangle one? Aug 28 06:53:37 Hold that down for a sec and the keyboard should pop up Aug 28 06:54:00 okay Aug 28 06:54:47 neither of the hardware buttons seem to have any effect Aug 28 06:55:16 nope Aug 28 06:55:18 nothing Aug 28 06:55:37 O_o Aug 28 06:55:39 That's odd Aug 28 06:55:53 Worked for me. :\ Aug 28 06:56:05 i dont know Aug 28 06:56:11 just installed it last night Aug 28 06:56:21 i thought i was going to get a desktop Aug 28 06:56:32 now theres this strange phone GUI Aug 28 06:56:38 its kind of nice Aug 28 06:56:50 but rather exceedingly restrictive Aug 28 06:57:22 That's the FSO Aug 28 06:57:23 Haha Aug 28 06:57:34 even holding the button down for 30 seconds doesnt work Aug 28 06:57:42 hmmm Aug 28 06:57:43 FSO GUI is just a prototype IIRC Aug 28 06:57:55 Well, SSH into it via USB and install xfce. Still dunno why the matchbox keyboard won't pop up for you though. Aug 28 06:58:05 well, is it the prototype thats keeping me from getting a keyboard? Aug 28 06:58:20 hmmm Aug 28 06:58:27 okay Aug 28 06:58:47 do you have /usr/bin/matchbox-keyboard-toggle running? Aug 28 06:59:01 i have no idea Aug 28 06:59:11 i just successfully booted it for the first time Aug 28 06:59:25 and now, the FSO interface is all ive seen Aug 28 06:59:26 It should be running by default if I remember correctly. Bad install maybe? Aug 28 06:59:36 ssh in and check Aug 28 06:59:46 thats what im doing Aug 28 06:59:48 wait a sec Aug 28 07:01:46 gah Aug 28 07:01:50 python is anoying Aug 28 07:01:51 its 202 like the other openmoko systems, right? Aug 28 07:01:57 Right Aug 28 07:02:14 Hmm, trying to do the same thing I did with blackbox with rox. But rox isn't in the /bin/ area.. Aug 28 07:04:08 hmmm Aug 28 07:04:19 looks like its not responding to ssh either Aug 28 07:04:21 grrr Aug 28 07:06:05 im running off SD Aug 28 07:06:21 is there a way to disable FSO without using the package manager? Aug 28 07:07:22 'disable FSO' ?? Aug 28 07:09:49 i mean stop it from starting up Aug 28 07:09:55 X runs fine Aug 28 07:10:12 but it appears that the FSO interface is blocking all input Aug 28 07:10:49 but if im going to stop it from running, i would have to do it with the 2007 image Aug 28 07:11:07 because i cant do anything to the OS in debian with the current install Aug 28 07:11:48 so, i was more or less thinking of temorarily crippling FSO, and seeing what i could get with the leftover system Aug 28 07:11:59 i guess thats probably not the best way to go about it Aug 28 07:12:13 :-/ Aug 28 07:12:17 Hey, guy from earlier or somebody. >_> What's Enlightenment called for apt-get? Aug 28 07:12:23 morning Aug 28 07:12:37 YES Aug 28 07:12:54 Infinyte: could be enlightenment, or e17 Aug 28 07:13:32 Hmm Aug 28 07:14:17 Infinyte: e17 is only available in Debian experimental Aug 28 07:14:24 Ahh Aug 28 07:14:27 raster: so, I did get it working after all Aug 28 07:14:32 latest development build works Aug 28 07:15:06 Infinyte: doesn't appear to be autobuilt for armel either Aug 28 07:15:07 :) Aug 28 07:15:16 Ah well. Aug 28 07:15:25 yay Aug 28 07:16:00 so I'm still missing out on all teh cool stuff... GPS, wifi, & etc, but I can still start experimenting with the dbus api, which is all I really wanted to do anyway Aug 28 07:16:29 raster: in your 2008 image, is there a way to install a terminal without getting your nice keyboard stomped by that crappy default one? Aug 28 07:17:24 LuYu: dunno - i just build the image i had at the time Aug 28 07:17:27 Arr, anyone know of a left-click only window manager that's as light as fluxbox? Aug 28 07:17:41 installing will mean qpe pops up Aug 28 07:18:01 Infinyte: e17 :) Aug 28 07:18:06 >_> Aug 28 07:18:30 Anything that I don't have to build/can't build because I'm to lazy/dumb? ;D Aug 28 07:19:26 its too bad cause your keyboard is much better than the default one Aug 28 07:19:31 :) Aug 28 07:20:04 Hmm, what about e16? Aug 28 07:20:22 e16 use right click iirc Aug 28 07:20:43 but it's configurable anyway Aug 28 07:21:00 Well, it can HAVE the right-click functionality, but can is it usable without right clicking is the big issue. Aug 28 07:21:08 xfce is a good example, but I want something lighter. Aug 28 07:21:20 when running on SD, is there a way to access NAND flash? Aug 28 07:23:04 Well e16 was in the repos. Testin' it out. Aug 28 07:23:59 e16 wont do well Aug 28 07:24:06 entirely different to e17 btw Aug 28 07:24:11 not a single line of code the same Aug 28 07:24:21 Figures. :p Well, how can I get e17? Haha Aug 28 07:24:27 source Aug 28 07:24:27 :) Aug 28 07:24:34 :< Aug 28 07:25:02 good night all, thanks for the help despite my annoying questions :) Aug 28 07:25:06 Ooo, liking e16 so far though. Aug 28 07:25:33 e16 is quote primitive compared to e17 :) Aug 28 07:25:57 but it has been released :p Aug 28 07:26:14 who needs reeleases when u have svn ! Aug 28 07:26:15 :) Aug 28 07:26:24 hehe. Aug 28 07:26:25 And I'd love to use it, but I can't compile stuffs. :< I just break everything. >_> Aug 28 07:27:01 Can anyone comment if, GSM pricing in USA is essentially more expensive than in Europe? I am thingking here like PDA usage, with reasonable amounts of data only Aug 28 07:27:01 So what are the cheapest ones? In Finland the going rate is less than 10 euro for month, for unlimited or large cap plans... Aug 28 07:28:07 good morning Aug 28 07:29:19 raster: s/svn/git/ Aug 28 07:30:28 pffft Aug 28 07:30:29 git Aug 28 07:30:36 me has come to hate git Aug 28 07:31:34 Well e16 is impressing me enough for now. But I can't find the matchbox keyboard in the app list. >_> Aug 28 07:33:39 what program does the debian install use for dhcp? Aug 28 07:33:49 dhcpcd? Aug 28 07:34:21 LuYu: doesn't the install.sh mention it? Aug 28 07:34:23 obviously, the program is different from the openmoko systems Aug 28 07:34:32 i didnt see it on there Aug 28 07:35:13 the openmoko wiki fairly well assumes you have net connectivity Aug 28 07:36:20 no, i dont see anything about that Aug 28 07:36:36 there has to be a dhcp program installed Aug 28 07:36:40 i just need a name Aug 28 07:37:04 or maybe i should just do it manually Aug 28 07:37:34 the problem is, thats not as easy with wifi Aug 28 07:38:03 Some one had this problem before :Can't run python apps - ImportError: No module named cairo Aug 28 07:38:04 found it Aug 28 07:38:07 dhclient Aug 28 07:38:12 raster : luckily windows box has charged my battery after all...:] Aug 28 07:38:45 I want to know this is resolved or not Aug 28 07:41:08 Hm, is there an alternate on-screen keyboard that can be gotten through apt-get? Aug 28 07:42:56 good Aug 28 07:43:00 ive got wifi now Aug 28 07:44:25 Infinyte: for now only matchbox, illume keyboard (awesome) is planned once some e17 stuff is packaged IIRC Aug 28 07:45:34 Ah, well.. How can I launch matchbox? Aug 28 07:45:36 xD Aug 28 07:45:58 I know how in xfce, it's in accessories. But I can't find it in e16 :< Aug 28 07:51:20 Infinyte: should be running by default if you used the pkg-fso install.sh script Aug 28 07:51:49 if not, run matchbox-keyboard from a terminal Aug 28 07:52:24 Hmm.. Can it not come up in anything but the Zhone and Xfce or something? O_o Aug 28 08:00:01 Ah well, anyone gotten sound to play in Debian, besides call sounds and ringing? Aug 28 08:14:09 So when do you think e17 will appear in the repo? Aug 28 08:23:48 'ning all, did I see mentioned on here some unoffical feeds for the FSO milestone 2? Aug 28 08:24:57 yeah Aug 28 08:25:00 at bearstech Aug 28 08:25:19 aha! thanks :) Aug 28 08:25:56 np Aug 28 08:26:27 you don't know by any chanse what I should use as feeds for 2008.8? zecke's feeds or http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/testing/ ? Aug 28 08:27:55 Zorkman: no idea i am afraid, are they now split into testing and stable/ Aug 28 08:28:05 yeah i know, and that is a good thing Aug 28 08:28:25 but what isn't is the clarity on what you are supposed to be using? Aug 28 08:28:28 but there is the Multiverse feeds, the Om2008.8 feeds, he testing and the unstable feeds and then there are zecke's feeds... Aug 28 08:28:52 Zorkman: any voip clients yet ? Aug 28 08:29:08 ah so just when things were getting simple again they find a way to complicate it :) Aug 28 08:29:10 dbmoodb: there was a GSoC project about that Aug 28 08:29:10 like on 2008.8 Aug 28 08:29:13 don't know the status Aug 28 08:29:33 but GSoC should be almost finished... I expect a statusreport on all of them Aug 28 08:29:40 "was" yeah.. what about blah... pjsim is close... etc. just have to get them to actually compile which i find impossible. Aug 28 08:29:49 Zorkman: really? Aug 28 08:30:00 yeah, i think michael also mentionned it Aug 28 08:30:12 Well the SoC project was to add voip to telepathy Aug 28 08:30:22 Tig|: and to the device ? Aug 28 08:30:43 Telepathy is a DBUS framework :) Aug 28 08:30:52 dbmoodb: Michael Lauer said: (24/08) "Please wait for GSoc completely finishing, I expect some final status reports Aug 28 08:30:52 from every student then. Aug 28 08:30:54 " Aug 28 08:31:39 sadly thinking your voip conversation and sending it to the FR is slightly beyond the available hardware :) Aug 28 08:31:40 ok so... it now has dbus support and .. is there a said lib / back end ? Aug 28 08:31:57 no idea, I am getting this from the wiki :) Aug 28 08:31:58 Tig|: ah what ? ... Aug 28 08:32:54 what do you mean Tig|? do you think the FR will not be able to handle it? Aug 28 08:33:20 Tig|: why the hell not ? Aug 28 08:33:29 I meant doing voip calls by *mental* telepathy is beyond the FR :) Aug 28 08:33:35 Infinyte: when it gets released and the maintainer moves it to unstable Aug 28 08:33:59 :) Aug 28 08:34:12 also looking forward to mokopedia... Aug 28 08:34:31 I'm guessing it will be ready by next weekend Aug 28 08:35:15 llo bumbl Aug 28 08:37:08 hi Zorkman Aug 28 08:37:25 a new day of tinkering with the FR has begun :) Aug 28 08:39:55 yeah Aug 28 08:44:05 mokopedia? Aug 28 08:44:22 haven't you heard of that lpotter? Aug 28 08:44:29 ummm no Aug 28 08:44:31 it's the complete wikipedia on our freerunners :) Aug 28 08:44:47 hmmm ok Aug 28 08:44:52 they have already made the german wiki (1.3G) and the dutch wiki (0.5G) and are working on the english one Aug 28 08:44:59 there used to be an app like that on the zaurus Aug 28 08:44:59 full text search in +/-20sec Aug 28 08:45:15 everything execpt pictures included Aug 28 08:45:27 (there is a channel #mokopedia btw) Aug 28 08:46:16 I thought they wanted to include thumbnails Aug 28 08:47:15 ah, I could be mistaken Aug 28 08:48:12 Zorkman: what ? Aug 28 08:48:23 I have a little question about QTopia: someone told me that is 'closer' than 2008.8 is that real? Aug 28 08:48:23 that they include thumbs Aug 28 08:48:24 really.... ah is this -- wikipeida as in .. the dumps or ? Aug 28 08:48:56 dbmoodb: wikipedia as in the full wiki offline and searchable in your pocket Aug 28 08:49:14 Zorkman: as in how what format ? Aug 28 08:49:25 i have an old wikipedia dump do i use that or ? Aug 28 08:49:37 dbmoodb: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Mokopedia Aug 28 08:49:51 closer? Aug 28 08:50:13 fale: in what way closer? yes it is a slightly more stable phone image but it does not do much else and it means you can only run QT aps Aug 28 08:50:14 lpotter: less customable Aug 28 08:50:31 * fale loves qt apps Aug 28 08:50:36 yuikes that's crazy Aug 28 08:50:53 ah more closed, well it is still all open but you are limited to running qt apps only Aug 28 08:51:06 la la la Aug 28 08:51:09 in Qtopia there is, or is possible to put a voIP program? Aug 28 08:51:10 alalal nokia Aug 28 08:51:12 how big is mokopedia??? Aug 28 08:51:16 llo Dave Aug 28 08:51:29 pabs3: Tests show that the German Wikipedia will be around 1.3GB and the English Wikipedia around 4GB so with flash storage prices dropping I will not bother removing certain articles - the dumps will include everything. Aug 28 08:51:39 Dutch wiki is 0.5GB Aug 28 08:51:44 Zorkman: pft 4gb is still much. Aug 28 08:51:49 Greetings Aug 28 08:51:57 aye, my SD is only 4Gb Aug 28 08:52:00 Zorkman, if you're so attuned to this, how big is wikipedia? Aug 28 08:52:01 :p Aug 28 08:52:05 English version Aug 28 08:52:14 Hello pabster ;) Aug 28 08:52:31 well if they would drop the pokemon and scifi tv series sections of the En one it would probably be about 1G too :P Aug 28 08:52:36 mmmm should be possible to cut it down some more :) Aug 28 08:52:42 qtopia is not more closed. it is completely open source Aug 28 08:52:48 yo Daveoid Aug 28 08:53:00 so in that sense it is completely customizable Aug 28 08:53:06 lpotter: I see Aug 28 08:53:08 :) Aug 28 08:53:19 lpotter: is there a VoIP program? Aug 28 08:53:21 lpotter, perhaps just more confusing? :P Aug 28 08:53:42 fale: there is if you compile from the unoffical git Aug 28 08:53:43 and even more cabal like? Aug 28 08:53:56 confusing? Aug 28 08:53:59 lpotter: but there isn't in the image? Aug 28 08:54:02 Dave: 46Gb i think Aug 28 08:54:05 I hear the trolltech guys are into some dark rituals Aug 28 08:54:11 Zorkman, that sounds miniscule Aug 28 08:54:30 hi guys Aug 28 08:54:36 hi Fradeve Aug 28 08:54:36 fale: not from trolltech Aug 28 08:54:37 Lpotter, you figure 4.3.2 should be released within a week? :) Aug 28 08:54:37 'ning Aug 28 08:54:38 I've installed 2008.08, butI can't enter the pin cause there are no numbers on the keyboard Aug 28 08:54:48 fadeve, read the topic please :) Aug 28 08:54:57 lpotter: there will be in the next version, as far as you can say? Aug 28 08:54:58 Fradeve: slide your finger up on the keyboard Aug 28 08:54:59 Dave: source has been released today, so I am working on updating qtopia.net images Aug 28 08:55:11 4.3.2 release sources Aug 28 08:55:14 Lpotter, thanks for that :p Aug 28 08:55:23 Lpotter, any improvements? Aug 28 08:55:35 yes Aug 28 08:56:06 thanks fale Aug 28 08:56:15 Fradeve: ? Aug 28 08:56:28 tjg| sorry Aug 28 08:56:34 Fradeve: :D Aug 28 08:56:34 Lpotter, oh, are you not going to tell me? or is there a CHANGES file or something I can read? :) Aug 28 08:57:10 sliding keyboard is too cool Aug 28 08:57:26 :P Aug 28 08:57:32 lpotter: what about the KDE programs? Aug 28 08:57:40 fale: scary Aug 28 08:57:48 Dave: ? Aug 28 08:59:42 Dave: are you a programmer? Aug 28 09:00:09 Dave http://doc.trolltech.com/qtopia4.3/release-4-3-2.html Aug 28 09:00:16 Sure. Aug 28 09:00:23 Thank you, Mister Potter. Aug 28 09:00:38 Dave: sure to me or to Mr Potter? Aug 28 09:00:44 TO YOU Aug 28 09:00:49 Mr. Fale Aug 28 09:00:49 executive view of the changes Aug 28 09:00:59 :) Aug 28 09:01:07 damn executives :P Aug 28 09:01:47 Dave: have you ever made a program in Qt and after compiled it and run it on your openmoko? Aug 28 09:01:49 wow BUG 200881 , openmoko isn't even at BUG2000 ;-) Aug 28 09:03:28 Dave!: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/b09d95e21b03a21ea1cd76ae9f3b77c4.png Aug 28 09:03:41 looks like a game-in-the-make :) Aug 28 09:04:16 nice Aug 28 09:04:54 I think it might be from the same people as mokoegg? Aug 28 09:05:02 fale: Dave uses gtk on his moko Aug 28 09:05:16 Zorkman: what kinda game is that???!? Aug 28 09:05:35 dunno, probably more a proof of concept at the moment Aug 28 09:05:43 but I see potential in it Aug 28 09:05:47 pabs3: it looks like tekken or little fighter Aug 28 09:05:47 bumbl: I see, thx Aug 28 09:06:30 it would be great if it could have an online function Aug 28 09:06:50 any other screenshots? Aug 28 09:06:58 or with bluetooth, you can "hit" other openmoko users when you get near them :) Aug 28 09:07:47 Zorkman: fat chance that you meet other openmoko users accidently Aug 28 09:07:48 would be a nice RWMMG real world massive multiplayer game :) Aug 28 09:08:04 bumbl, I might find you in brussels :p Aug 28 09:08:31 it could also be ported to other devices and what the hell, one may dream, can't he :) Aug 28 09:08:42 haha :P Aug 28 09:08:45 it would also be possible to make a kind of online game :) Aug 28 09:08:57 Androids DO dream of electric sheep, remember ;) Aug 28 09:08:58 openmoko users could team up Aug 28 09:09:14 and beat up iphone users Aug 28 09:09:19 zorkman, there's so few, and they're so weak, it'd be hard to pit them against one another. Aug 28 09:09:24 bumble :D Aug 28 09:09:34 they're weak, but not when they're behind their computers :) Aug 28 09:10:05 c'mon, it would be great Aug 28 09:10:10 anyone got a water-proof freerunner? Aug 28 09:10:12 heh Aug 28 09:10:24 pabs, I tried that, yeah Aug 28 09:10:27 mine has waterproof-pieces, but not in total no :) Aug 28 09:10:31 but it'd be nice to have a formal casing done Aug 28 09:10:50 I was a bit skiddish at first, but took it in the pool :P Aug 28 09:10:53 yeah, we need a better casing, to keep the buzz even better inside :) Aug 28 09:11:05 nice one Aug 28 09:11:38 Usually with a cellphone, a ziplock bag is good enough, but this was... a rather more expensive "phone", if you could even call it that :P Aug 28 09:11:59 so I encased it within a small plexiglass enclosure, then tossed it in the deep end :p Aug 28 09:14:30 I once flushed my FR because I thought the feds had found me... Aug 28 09:17:10 agents Aug 28 09:17:17 anywhere Aug 28 09:17:19 hmm opkg segfault on update :( Aug 28 09:17:20 they will get you Aug 28 09:17:22 :P Aug 28 09:17:36 haha, bad news Aug 28 09:17:38 and bumbl is one of the few that can say that with authority Aug 28 09:17:54 Tig|: you didn't really pour water on it did you? :) Aug 28 09:18:08 nope I added the bearstech feeds ;p Aug 28 09:18:24 :) never heard anyone complain about them Aug 28 09:18:39 pesky germans Aug 28 09:19:13 bearstech is french Aug 28 09:19:29 perhaps I messed up how I added them Aug 28 09:21:10 Tig|: did you use the testing or the unstable ones? Aug 28 09:21:16 testing Aug 28 09:21:24 ah, that should work normally... Aug 28 09:22:17 does this look sane : Aug 28 09:22:18 root@om-gta02:/etc/opkg# cat all-feed.conf Aug 28 09:22:18 src/gz fso-all http://downloads.openmoko.org/framework/milestone2/updates/all Aug 28 09:22:18 src/gz fso2-all http://shr.bearstech.com/fso-testing/ipk/all Aug 28 09:24:58 :p Aug 28 09:25:12 there be bears here Aug 28 09:50:40 AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! Aug 28 09:50:47 http://is.gd/1WgO Aug 28 09:50:51 It left Canada! Aug 28 09:51:10 now the customs are going to play with it for a few weeks :p Aug 28 09:52:22 "Sir, this device has a GPS capable of guiding a weapon of mass destruction, we're going to have to confiscate it so that we can play with it... eh?" Aug 28 09:53:08 haha Aug 28 09:53:35 Customs had better leave my FreeRunner alone or I'll force them to watch something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwVX5AMAq3Y&NR=1 Aug 28 09:53:48 And no, that's not a rickroll Aug 28 09:53:58 but they'll be wishing it was. Aug 28 09:54:51 see? it scared marcinsoo off his IRC client. Aug 28 09:56:23 pabs3 too Aug 28 09:56:47 you've got the power! Aug 28 09:57:33 Zorkman: I'm invisible! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPLa5k-dTt8 Aug 28 09:58:49 I also broke John Goodman you know. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHHPsFbLKyY Aug 28 09:58:58 and alsa "a naughty girl" it seems... Aug 28 10:00:08 Zorkman: but this is illegal, you know. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oITR8run6ek Aug 28 10:03:09 Zorkman: in response to the killer in the park vid: that was scary Aug 28 10:03:15 that's on another chan Aug 28 10:06:17 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu0fzApHG7g&feature=related Aug 28 10:06:32 Does anyone know how many FreeRunners have been sold? Aug 28 10:06:37 Or that were produced in total? Aug 28 10:08:39 More than enough were produced, and the US is sold out of them Aug 28 10:08:50 I live in Arizona, I had to order mine from Canada Aug 28 10:08:53 which isn't so bad Aug 28 10:09:00 Canadian post is pretty good Aug 28 10:10:57 I'm just trying to count the totals :) Aug 28 10:11:10 I'll get a GTA03 later, my GTA01 will do for now Aug 28 10:12:42 why has nobody mada simple gui for setting the volume? Aug 28 10:13:45 because the mixer has a gazillion different elements Aug 28 10:13:49 there is one for qtopia Aug 28 10:14:05 yeah i know, but for simple use on the phone a few of them should suffice Aug 28 10:14:31 like for setting headphone volume, speaker volume, and maybe bass boost Aug 28 10:15:09 anyone tested it with other headphones than the ones that comes with the gta02? Aug 28 10:15:35 is the output quality that bad or is it the headphones? Aug 28 10:15:58 I only have the ones provided, but on the ML someone said he tested it with nokia headphones I think Aug 28 10:17:52 ok, the speakers and the phone-speaker sounds better so I hope it is the headphones Aug 28 10:19:58 si-m1: gta02 comes with headphones? Aug 28 10:20:08 where are mine? Aug 28 10:21:29 nyu: Only when ordered in 10+-packs. Aug 28 10:22:07 the headphones are not great :-( Aug 28 10:22:33 nyu: mine did, but they were terrible Aug 28 10:22:42 (hopefully) Aug 28 10:23:11 i don't mean headphones maybe, but those earplugthingies Aug 28 10:24:04 Rakshasa: it _was_ a 10 pack Aug 28 10:24:21 shrug. sounds like someone got 10 free headphones ;-) Aug 28 10:24:32 haha, almost feel sorry for them :) Aug 28 10:24:52 Yeah, sounds like someone's needed more than one =P Aug 28 10:25:36 fuck, time to rebuild wesnoth again Aug 28 10:25:56 to compile a program for Qtopia, is necessary the debug board? Aug 28 10:26:04 note to self: never use -b when building packages with changes that affect binary-indep stuff Aug 28 10:26:09 not at all Aug 28 10:26:13 *-B Aug 28 10:26:26 lpotter: and to install a new version of the OS? Aug 28 10:26:32 nope Aug 28 10:26:48 just need dfu-util, mkfs.jffs2 Aug 28 10:26:59 lpotter: than for what is usefull for? Aug 28 10:27:14 dtu-util is the flasher app Aug 28 10:27:23 dfu-util Aug 28 10:27:34 lpotter: I mean, what the debug board is usefull to Aug 28 10:27:37 hi WU Aug 28 10:30:10 hi Aug 28 10:33:47 fale, the debug board provides you with a JTAG port Aug 28 10:34:04 and lets you overwrite the NOR flash Aug 28 10:34:27 it's also an unpowered usb hub! Aug 28 10:34:30 i try not to use the debug board Aug 28 10:34:43 can we install tzset() API on moko? Aug 28 10:35:13 weatherhead: than to change/upgrade the SO in the NOR flash I need the Debug board? Aug 28 10:35:51 lpotter: with the release of Qtopia 4.4 you are killing me :S Aug 28 10:42:03 did somebody work with the kernel inotify functionality sometime? Aug 28 10:42:23 hello brothers, i have simple question Aug 28 10:42:27 if i have freerunner without debug board, is it possible to screw up things by trying different operating systems so that phone becomes unbootable? Aug 28 10:42:59 i am doing a little testing with inotify currenty... and i got a readable fd that only gives me 0 bytes on a read()... Aug 28 10:43:06 Raigedas: yes.. but it's recovrable Aug 28 10:43:09 can I run J2ME applications on the openmoko ? Aug 28 10:43:30 is it recoverable without debug board? Aug 28 10:43:33 yes Aug 28 10:43:40 thank you Aug 28 10:44:40 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_the_Neo_FreeRunner Aug 28 10:44:48 all written there Aug 28 10:44:50 AJuOnLiNE, at least someone on this channel has done that on the phoneme stack, I recall. I don't know if the stuff required is neatly packaged at this point though. Aug 28 10:44:54 thanks Aug 28 10:47:03 mjr: ok. thanks :) i looked up the wiki.. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Java and seriously since I do not have any clue of Java :P i cudnt get a conclusion.. Aug 28 10:47:12 from what I cud make, its something in development and not mature yet. Aug 28 11:00:21 default OS in freerunner does not have movie player yet, does it? Aug 28 11:04:20 the default is very bare Aug 28 11:04:26 so no Aug 28 11:06:56 AJuOnLiNE: "something in development and not mature yet" kind of describes all of OpenMoko ;-) Aug 28 11:07:29 CM_work: yAy! :) Aug 28 11:07:32 some 2008.8 experts here? Aug 28 11:09:31 i have an older version from 08.08.08, is it sufficient to do an upgrade from there or should i go with one of the daily update images? Aug 28 11:11:47 malik1972: seems like there is still some confusion about which feed to use (http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/Om2008.8 vs zecke's one) Aug 28 11:12:15 malik1972: I usually just make sure I have the stuff I want to save on the sd-card, then flash the latest image Aug 28 11:12:16 if you have installed a 2008.8 image i would suggest you could try opkg upgrade with both those feeds (if it borkes, you can still reflash :)) Aug 28 11:12:30 Zorkman: i guess the one from downloads is official Aug 28 11:12:35 if you are using a 2008.08.xx-qtopia image from buildhost; then mabe btter to just reflash teh damn thing Aug 28 11:13:03 malik1972: yeah, bot on the ML someone mentionned that zecke's feeds contained a more up-to-date versions Aug 28 11:13:49 Zorkman: that means also "less stabel" Aug 28 11:14:01 i didn't opkg upgraded the 2008.8-upgrade image yet, but i -test upgraded it and it looked to work Aug 28 11:14:18 okay, will try it Aug 28 11:14:19 malik1972: you're using a FR, and you're concerned about stability? ;-) Aug 28 11:14:26 i have a backup of the partition Aug 28 11:14:41 did you make one with dfu-util? Aug 28 11:14:50 Zorkman: i mean, it shouldnt break everything i did before Aug 28 11:15:10 Zorkman: i have a multiboot system Aug 28 11:15:31 and also problems with different kernels Aug 28 11:15:33 yeah, i was just joking malik1972: I'm getting tired of reflashing and configuring everything over and over again :) Aug 28 11:16:01 I also multiboot, but my old faithfull 2007.2 stays in flash, I play with the SD card :) Aug 28 11:16:18 Zorkman: does the battery applet work? Aug 28 11:16:33 whichone? Aug 28 11:16:49 the one from the taskbar Aug 28 11:16:50 I use batmon.py and power.py Aug 28 11:17:10 (i'll check, I'm rebooting x) Aug 28 11:17:23 you are restarting x Aug 28 11:17:40 yeah Aug 28 11:17:51 it indicates correctly wether it is chargin and how much power is in it Aug 28 11:17:59 clicking it does nothing, if that is what you mean.. Aug 28 11:18:16 How openmko support tzset()? Aug 28 11:18:24 thats okay Aug 28 11:19:49 i use ietlints pythong applications to check bat status Aug 28 11:19:55 they work very nicely Aug 28 11:23:32 this probably is asked quite often... but how close is freerunnar/openmoko to being ready for general public ? :) Aug 28 11:24:31 i am interested in a gps device, and thought that maybe i could get a freerunner to be used as a phone & gps device :) Aug 28 11:24:52 Richlv: I believe comments are "If you want a consumer phone, use qtopia" Aug 28 11:25:36 yeah, but last i looked, qtopia had some problems with power management etc Aug 28 11:26:19 I believe current OpenMoko builds don't have problems with power management because they simply don't have it :P Aug 28 11:26:24 Though I may be mistaken here Aug 28 11:27:26 mhaha. not too comforting Aug 28 11:34:24 I installed Om2008.8 on my freerunner's minisd card 3 days ago, it worked just fine yesteday, but now the kernel panics because it can't mout rootfs or the kernel image Aug 28 11:35:08 Microsd. And apparently there are some sd corruption issues... Aug 28 11:40:23 * Mononoke wonders if it's safe to just run opkg upgrade Aug 28 11:41:14 Depends on your distro Aug 28 11:41:20 and what your repos are; but generally, yes Aug 28 11:41:42 if you are running 2008.8 or fso, you need to change your repos, then it's fine Aug 28 11:41:53 if you are using qtopia, don't or you'll blow yourself up Aug 28 11:42:05 I belive any other distro should be fine Aug 28 11:47:13 Mononoke: when in doubt you can always do a opkg upgrade -test Aug 28 11:47:30 if you see some very funky things that give you a bad feeling: wait till you're drunk and then opkg upgrade Aug 28 11:48:50 Zorkman, bad idea Aug 28 11:49:05 it works fine on qtopia, though after doing it, my phone didn't work, and I had to reflash :P Aug 28 11:49:15 oh yeah, i didn't meant for qtopia Aug 28 11:49:19 but test isn't bad Aug 28 11:49:20 haha :P Aug 28 11:49:25 sorry , wasn't very clear on that one :) Aug 28 11:49:25 well, hey you never know ;) Aug 28 11:49:27 people are stupid :D Aug 28 11:50:04 hi edistar Aug 28 11:50:05 when runnig python application on Neo 1973, /media/card/ipkg/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/__init__.py:69: GtkWarning: could not open display Aug 28 11:50:06 warnings.warn(str(e), _gtk.Warning) Aug 28 11:50:08 hi edistar Aug 28 11:50:21 opendeep: first type DISPLAY=:0 Aug 28 11:50:22 meeer! Aug 28 11:50:44 ok and what to do when it stops booting ? :) Aug 28 11:51:27 I tried but it is because of gtk module, How do I install a stable gtk modulw? Aug 28 11:52:04 Monoke? :o Aug 28 11:52:18 just asking if I break up something Aug 28 11:52:24 reflash Aug 28 11:53:21 or visit a witchdoctor, I have never seen anyone of them say they couldn't fix it Aug 28 11:53:34 :P Aug 28 11:53:44 O.o I'm just getting strange sms messages >.> Aug 28 11:53:56 MAYBE SOMEBODY LIKES YOU! Aug 28 11:54:01 :D Aug 28 11:57:53 * Dave gsmbombs Sean of Openmoko Aug 28 12:05:03 kernel kernel kernel Aug 28 12:16:38 Wilkommen Aug 28 12:18:12 hi Aug 28 12:18:39 Greetings Aug 28 12:18:54 it's kinda lonely here.. Aug 28 12:18:55 g'day Aug 28 12:19:03 nah Aug 28 12:19:04 Dave: wiki women? Aug 28 12:19:31 gee, must be a bad time in the morning for me to read that Aug 28 12:20:36 lol Aug 28 12:24:26 the Qtopia for openmoko is Qtopia Platform or Qtopia Phone Edition? Aug 28 12:25:43 huh? Aug 28 12:26:39 Dave: there are two Qtopia Aug 28 12:27:17 one is "Qtopia Platform" and the other one is "Qtopia Phone Edition" Aug 28 12:27:40 and I was wondering witch one of the two was used to create the flash for the openmoko Aug 28 12:27:56 no Aug 28 12:28:03 huh? Aug 28 12:28:07 no clues Aug 28 12:28:12 I know there is [pure] Qtopia Aug 28 12:28:28 and there are some knock off distributions (like ASU, and it's qtopia-x11 friends) Aug 28 12:30:32 hmm I think I have made a mess of this, so it is reflash time... Aug 28 12:30:53 the question is do i reflash with the FSO image again or the 2008.8 one Aug 28 12:30:54 Dave: I was wondering because lpotter has told that there isn't the VoIP, but on the web site it says that in the Qtopia Phone Edition there is, than I wanted to understand better the whole thing Aug 28 12:31:02 Tig, what a decision :p Aug 28 12:31:14 Tig|: what is FSO? Aug 28 12:31:28 FreeSmartphone.Org Aug 28 12:31:35 to he said :) Aug 28 12:31:38 wot even Aug 28 12:31:43 Tig :P Aug 28 12:31:57 bouncy bouncy Aug 28 12:32:19 the thing is I like the launcher and stuff on the ASU but prefer the keyboard and the suspend resume workage on the FSO image Aug 28 12:32:27 and the DBUSsy goodness ;) Aug 28 12:33:36 three WTFs: a) why doesn't http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/mplayer_0.0+1.0rc2-r8_armv4t.ipk have a dependency on libxv and libmp3lame? b) why are there no files in http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/libmp3lame_3.96.1-r4_armv4t.ipk? c) why are there no files in http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/libxv_1.0.3-r1_armv4t.ipk? Aug 28 12:33:45 Tig, so go with raster's image? Aug 28 12:34:02 it's a placeholder Aug 28 12:34:11 because the drivers aren't fully developed yet Aug 28 12:34:11 hmmm Aug 28 12:34:16 and because buildhost is a piece of shit Aug 28 12:34:23 and because mplayer has no dependencies Aug 28 12:34:29 Dave: ! Aug 28 12:34:30 Does that answer your question? Aug 28 12:34:33 Cga :p Aug 28 12:34:46 Dave: that the one over at enlightenment.org perchance? Aug 28 12:35:00 Dave: ldd said it had dependencies on libXv.so and libmp3lame.so Aug 28 12:35:14 Dave: and i know i had a working mplayer once Aug 28 12:35:29 mine works fine Aug 28 12:35:36 In fact, I am presently watching a video stream on it :) Aug 28 12:35:48 Tig, probably Aug 28 12:35:51 yeah... this freshly installed one does not. Aug 28 12:35:54 he posted a link here the other day Aug 28 12:36:07 though he's developing his own image shortly Aug 28 12:36:20 after dealing with the same aggravation we have to deal with on a daily basis Aug 28 12:36:27 he's like, fuck these images, I'm going to make my own! Aug 28 12:36:29 :D Aug 28 12:36:50 Tig: yeah, http://download.enlightenment.org/misc/ Aug 28 12:36:50 I'm still waiting for SCUMMVM OM Aug 28 12:36:52 woot :) can you remember the link? Aug 28 12:36:54 aja Aug 28 12:36:57 shlee, it's there. Aug 28 12:36:59 aha even thanks :) Aug 28 12:37:20 ta will give it a whirl :) Aug 28 12:37:27 ScummVM 0.9.1 (Jul 7 2008 20:20:58) Aug 28 12:37:33 scummvm works ok, you just need a way to type escape and f5 Aug 28 12:37:37 that's what I'm using, anyway. Aug 28 12:37:39 and right mouse click for some games Aug 28 12:37:40 Ecraven, yes! :D Aug 28 12:37:49 * Dave high-fives ecraven Aug 28 12:39:04 Dave: do you have sound? Aug 28 12:39:13 i haven't yet figured out how to get sound working with scummvm Aug 28 12:39:14 YES Aug 28 12:39:22 I have sound and music :) Aug 28 12:39:28 did you set the audio tab to alsa? Aug 28 12:39:31 or leave it on default? Aug 28 12:39:38 default Aug 28 12:39:42 but I believe asla worked for me too Aug 28 12:39:48 as I overrode it for a game Aug 28 12:40:01 ecraven are you talking about midi playback or voice files for games? Aug 28 12:40:22 sound in general works for me in scummvm now though Aug 28 12:40:42 but for some games, e.g. sam 'n max, I left out the voice data file because it's enormous. Aug 28 12:41:04 but the cheesey music still plays fine :D Aug 28 12:41:20 and works fine for the monkey island games, dott, etc Aug 28 12:41:20 i'll play with it some more later ;) Aug 28 12:41:24 :D Aug 28 12:41:31 Figure out a way to save games, and we'll be good! Aug 28 12:41:38 also being able to send Period would be nice too -_- Aug 28 12:41:41 or hit Esc Aug 28 12:42:24 hmm what does red led light mean ? >.> Aug 28 12:42:31 it's charging, probably Aug 28 12:42:45 Dave: i use matchbox-keyboard for everything except f5 ;) i'll probably add a mapping for f5 soon too Aug 28 12:42:53 Don't worry, if and when your freerunner explodes, you will know it! :D Aug 28 12:43:00 ecraven! Aug 28 12:43:15 Ecraven, but how to send keystrokes while in a full screen game app Aug 28 12:43:18 it's umpossible. Aug 28 12:43:32 I believe it was raster that discussed how it's a semantic clash Aug 28 12:44:52 Dave: i can still start matchbox-stroke from the app bar, even if scummvm is in fullscreen Aug 28 12:45:10 wtf? Aug 28 12:45:12 how? Aug 28 12:45:32 I can use matchbox-keyboard while in full-screen even if I try running scummvm in a window Aug 28 12:45:40 don't worry Aug 28 12:45:49 soon i'll get to actually supporting lots of apps properly Aug 28 12:45:50 Raster, lead us to the path of salvation! Aug 28 12:45:58 just a quick question: how can I delete numbers from 2008.8 when inserting the PIN? Sometimes i'm wrong in writing but I don't see any button to delete on the keyboard.... Aug 28 12:46:00 and working ona proper "hand-top environment" Aug 28 12:46:05 We BELIEVE in you! Aug 28 12:46:07 :) Aug 28 12:46:13 as opposed to runing circules around fiddly little changes all the time Aug 28 12:46:14 :) Aug 28 12:46:19 next week Aug 28 12:46:20 yeah Aug 28 12:46:21 sweet Aug 28 12:46:25 Go Raster Go! Aug 28 12:46:29 * Dave does a weak cheer Aug 28 12:46:31 thsi week i'm still on doing whatever om wants Aug 28 12:46:40 Ah, okay :) Aug 28 12:47:00 haha, here's a funny though Aug 28 12:47:01 thought Aug 28 12:47:18 If you were to end up rolling your own distro, Raster, what would it be called? ;) Aug 28 12:47:44 RasterLinux? Aug 28 12:47:48 :D Aug 28 12:49:03 i want to learn python-efl, but i can't find any tut on the web... Aug 28 12:49:13 do you know any? Aug 28 12:50:11 Dave: dunno.. e? Aug 28 12:50:12 :) Aug 28 12:50:30 i assume u mean distro for OM/FR? Aug 28 12:51:02 right Aug 28 12:51:14 Just a thought :) Aug 28 12:52:16 havent thought about it much Aug 28 12:53:01 Maybe I will >:) Aug 28 12:53:12 Some of us want raster to take over the openmoko world :) Aug 28 12:53:27 ahahah Aug 28 12:53:29 With all his logic, configurability, and infinite wisdom :) Aug 28 12:53:36 *wink-wink* Aug 28 12:53:52 admiral0_work: I just read python-efi and got me really scared Aug 28 12:53:54 i dont want to take over Aug 28 12:53:57 i just want to make something good Aug 28 12:54:04 something i know *I* can use Aug 28 12:54:18 and somehting i know the rest of the linux nerds out there who bought an FR can use Aug 28 12:54:25 :) Aug 28 12:54:28 raster: it's the same intention i have Aug 28 12:54:29 i wont be solving "making calls" any time soon Aug 28 12:54:34 We thank you for your time and methodical approach. Aug 28 12:54:39 but i can solve what i knowi am good at and i can do Aug 28 12:54:48 Good enough for me, raster :) Aug 28 12:54:48 and that is desktop/environment and base usability stuff Aug 28 12:54:58 You're a god among kings. Aug 28 12:55:13 i am more than happy for the rest of peoelp to work on the other bits (suspend/resume, other drivers and other issues) Aug 28 12:55:17 and we all will meet in the middle Aug 28 12:55:42 Yep, that's what I figured. Sounds good :) Aug 28 12:56:06 keyboard is pushing it Aug 28 12:56:11 but i consider that a core usability feature Aug 28 12:56:14 Hooray! Aug 28 12:56:17 Indeed! Aug 28 12:56:22 but thats about as far as i plan to go Aug 28 12:56:25 that plus app launching Aug 28 12:56:32 basic desktop/wallpaper "today" screen Aug 28 12:56:41 "panel" etc. etc. Aug 28 12:56:49 all the stuff that surrounds application windows Aug 28 12:56:56 That would be nice. Aug 28 12:56:57 and lets u sanely work with them Aug 28 12:57:07 Master Raster's Master Plan Aug 28 12:57:09 eventually i imagine i will begin to inch into calls and core functions Aug 28 12:57:11 does anyone fancy compiling nilfs for debian, I tried but I'm out of my depth. Aug 28 12:57:14 as FSO will have a dbus api Aug 28 12:57:20 raster, whoa now, think about your sanity ;) Aug 28 12:57:22 i can imagine dialler being a module for e Aug 28 12:57:32 as then its always there and instantly available Aug 28 12:57:45 that kind of eventually means sms + addressbook will get sucked in too Aug 28 12:57:57 but frankly that is alreayd very far dnow the road Aug 28 12:58:03 so let fso perfect the back-end Aug 28 12:58:11 get the nuts and bolts perfect Aug 28 12:59:09 is usim backwards compatible to sim? or will it not work at all? Aug 28 12:59:38 I have a usim, it kinda works. Aug 28 12:59:58 Has a VOIP software for OM been build ? Aug 28 12:59:59 my "UMTS/GSM SIM" does not work Aug 28 13:00:11 VOIP client Aug 28 13:00:30 hmm chances are i need to have a wifi config gui and maybe stuff for gprs/gsm data session config too Aug 28 13:00:38 bah Aug 28 13:00:39 so much to do Aug 28 13:00:45 ojk Aug 28 13:00:53 back to my connman gadget/module front end Aug 28 13:00:58 so i can use it myself on my laptop Aug 28 13:01:02 AND use it on the FR Aug 28 13:01:03 :) Aug 28 13:01:34 cool Aug 28 13:01:41 get crackin' :] Aug 28 13:01:45 on it Aug 28 13:01:49 I have to get back to my python apps Aug 28 13:01:50 gagdet working Aug 28 13:01:52 :| Aug 28 13:01:53 popup working Aug 28 13:01:59 I need to learn this api Aug 28 13:04:49 speedevil: ping Aug 28 13:05:04 Don't wake the evil! Aug 28 13:05:09 * zedstar grins Aug 28 13:05:32 :o Aug 28 13:05:36 evil!!! Aug 28 13:06:00 lol Aug 28 13:06:16 nuclear_eclipse: zomg, Net2.0!?!?! Aug 28 13:06:27 what?! Aug 28 13:06:31 :DDDD Aug 28 13:06:33 where?! Aug 28 13:06:46 IT MAY BE COMING! Aug 28 13:06:50 back to my mplayer problem: who can i kick to get libxv and libmp3lame ipks with actual content being built on buildhost? Aug 28 13:07:04 * nuclear_eclipse runs around screaming in excitement! Aug 28 13:07:05 Wonka, get them from celtune? Aug 28 13:07:07 stop whining? Aug 28 13:07:14 nuclear_eclipse: THAT'S WHAT I AM DOING! Aug 28 13:07:16 wtf is celtune? Aug 28 13:07:24 it's celtune ;) Aug 28 13:07:31 Wonka: a repository Aug 28 13:08:11 Wonka: google it. you'll find it easily ;) Aug 28 13:08:33 Wonka: http://rabenfrost.net/celtune/ Aug 28 13:11:27 Hi there! What is the link for the daily images? Aug 28 13:12:10 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/ ? Aug 28 13:12:15 Proton23: google? om wiki? Aug 28 13:12:20 also check http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Latest_Images Aug 28 13:12:31 what distro? Aug 28 13:12:41 Dave: Thanks a lot Aug 28 13:12:43 :) Aug 28 13:12:47 Sure :) Aug 28 13:14:04 Another one: Is QEMU also able to emulate the FR or only the neo1973? Aug 28 13:14:29 you have change some stuff and then it's able to emulate gta02 Aug 28 13:14:49 Zorkman: What stuff? :) Aug 28 13:16:07 Proton23: don't know, only emulated gta01 (long time ago) Aug 28 13:16:20 but i once read a blog post that told what you had to do, maybe the wiki can help Aug 28 13:16:51 AFAIK the difference mostly is the setup of the emulated flash... Aug 28 13:17:00 it's not like it emulates the exact hardware anyway Aug 28 13:17:35 nevermind Aug 28 13:17:51 I will try it with this one Aug 28 13:17:55 Thanks Aug 28 13:17:56 :) Aug 28 13:26:33 btw, http://rabenfrost.net/celtune/ipk/armv4t/Packages does not contain "Package: mplayer". Aug 28 13:30:41 * hipitihop waves good evening to all Aug 28 13:31:08 i think i need to go back to fso ms2 Aug 28 13:31:40 i like the additions found in unstable, but not being able to answer incoming calls is kinda anoying :) Aug 28 13:33:26 which additions are there in unstable? Aug 28 13:33:44 nitification profiles is the big one Aug 28 13:33:45 and I think i need to go FORWARD to fso ms3 :p Aug 28 13:33:50 notification* Aug 28 13:34:00 ms3 isn't available yet Aug 28 13:34:24 but, like i said, when a call comes in i can't answer it Aug 28 13:34:48 (yeah, thats why I said i needed to go _forward_ :), I can't wait to test it) Aug 28 13:35:03 Zorkman, tell me how to teliport into the future Aug 28 13:35:05 ah, gotcha Aug 28 13:36:01 hipitihop: my FR has a feature to do that, but the glamo is preventing me to go any further than the next split second :p Aug 28 13:36:40 zorkman, bugger the the old broken glamo chip hey Aug 28 13:36:47 working on a contact manager, seems I should be working on a call handeling app Aug 28 13:37:31 anyone running up to the minute fso-testing here ? Aug 28 13:37:49 no, fso-unstable thou :) Aug 28 13:38:02 you using testing? Aug 28 13:38:32 un Aug 28 13:38:38 stable here too Aug 28 13:38:40 AntonTakk: why can't you answer incoming calls ? Aug 28 13:38:44 No ringtone ? Aug 28 13:39:03 Ainulindale: never switches to the ui layout with the answer and reject buttons Aug 28 13:39:18 that's weird Aug 28 13:39:21 It does here Aug 28 13:39:30 what zhone version? Aug 28 13:39:33 I take my freeruner o Aug 28 13:39:39 n a bikeride Aug 28 13:40:12 AntonTakk: I don't know at all :-) Aug 28 13:40:17 AntonTakk: home made probably Aug 28 13:40:42 opkg list_installed zhone Aug 28 13:40:57 i have: zhone - 0.0.0+gitr7+3cceb0740ac17683ae01df74214151a871a25536-r8 Aug 28 13:42:26 AntonTakk: I modified it Aug 28 13:42:37 (First in order to develop the dtmf patch) Aug 28 13:42:38 AntonTakk, sorry, yes fso-testing with all updates/upgrade .. but for days now can't even register sim to call out or receive Aug 28 13:42:54 Then in order to test some things Aug 28 13:42:57 So my version isn't relevant Aug 28 13:43:01 ah Aug 28 13:43:11 Though if it vibrates Aug 28 13:43:17 Taping the dialer button should display the screen Aug 28 13:43:24 Did you try that ? Aug 28 13:43:24 it doesn't Aug 28 13:43:33 That's funny :-) Aug 28 13:43:41 Did you open a ticket ? Aug 28 13:43:41 displays the dialing screen with the number that's calling (i believe) Aug 28 13:43:57 no, i'm using unstable Aug 28 13:44:26 figured someone was testing these things before releasing Aug 28 13:45:10 my fso-testing has zhone - 0.0.0+gitr69e029bd85a1caaad4e5d61087836a8e1ea20dcc-r8 Aug 28 13:45:19 Just had a look at git Aug 28 13:45:24 It should display the call window Aug 28 13:45:47 is there an alternative to zhone on fso-testing ? Aug 28 13:45:56 well, phone was rebooted 30 mins ago, let me try Aug 28 13:46:37 nope Aug 28 13:46:49 and the damp profiles don't even work Aug 28 13:46:52 :) Aug 28 13:47:04 silent still plays the ringtone Aug 28 13:47:08 Isn't zhone a testing tool? Aug 28 13:47:22 Shlee: more of a demo app Aug 28 13:47:43 Shlee: supposed to demo fso's features/etc Aug 28 13:47:55 I'll have my FR in 7 days.. hopefully FSO MS3 will be out shortly after Aug 28 13:48:05 that would be nice Aug 28 13:48:17 i have been wanting sms pdu mode like a fiend Aug 28 13:48:26 True. Aug 28 13:48:30 AntonTakk: the playing part is normal Aug 28 13:48:41 AntonTakk: opreferencesd isn't settled yet Aug 28 13:48:48 Ainulindale: ah Aug 28 13:50:45 AntonTakk, is there a zhone log I can look at to see what is going wrong ? zhone starts, does not register and if I tap the phone button nothing happens Aug 28 13:51:02 /tmp/zhone.log Aug 28 13:51:12 hipitihop: i usually have to open the dialer 1 to 3 times before it registers Aug 28 13:52:02 AntonTakk, yes I found that previously but now the dialer fails to open at all (few days now) so one of the fs-testing updates has changed/broken something Aug 28 13:52:15 oh, nice Aug 28 13:52:51 that's why I'm hoping for a zhone log file or something to see what it may be whining about Aug 28 13:53:31 you might try an actual image, they include a button for profile settings in zhone which dissapears after a opkg upgrade Aug 28 13:55:10 http://us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com/dc/launch?.rand=e83nud4n06c2d Aug 28 13:55:59 mybad i thought it was an sdcard Aug 28 13:57:11 perhaps i should convert the fso ringtone to an mp3 and use qtopia :-\ Aug 28 13:57:50 qtopia's ringtone is anoying (imho) Aug 28 14:00:10 so taking into consideration latest 2008.08 (20080826), latest qtopia 4.3.2 just released and perhaps others I have not hear of yet, what is considered the most stable/functional at this point ? Aug 28 14:00:32 * hipitihop knows this is a frequent question on the channel and the list Aug 28 14:05:45 I think almost everyone is confused but... working on 2008.08 till 2008.09 is the current plan for the primary supported OS? Aug 28 14:06:01 sigh, my battery died overnight while the phone was on and plugged into the wall charger, and indicating that it was charging... Aug 28 14:06:03 FSO is a sideproject and will be included in ASU? or replace it? Aug 28 14:08:58 MrShleee: this is not related Aug 28 14:09:25 MrShleee: FSO, and if we want to be more correct, frameworkd, is supposed to be the "future" framework for the phone (and other phones) Aug 28 14:09:42 Ainulindale, that was my understanding Aug 28 14:11:05 there was someone here the other day that mentioned their own distro and even had a placeholder page with comming soon, for the life of me I can't rember the link Aug 28 14:12:31 would someone who has experience fso-testing care to comapare to latest 2008.8 whic if I'm following correctly is referred to as ASU Aug 28 14:13:14 so, how is the whole "resuming on phone activity" thing supposed to work, anyway? Aug 28 14:13:26 is there like some minor subprocess that's kept awake by the kernel? Aug 28 14:14:02 it's, afaik, more like the gsm chipset will wake up the processor on activity Aug 28 14:14:28 aha, so the same principles can't be applied to say, alarm at 8:00AM Aug 28 14:14:42 hm Aug 28 14:14:47 Would you recommend installing the 2008.08 builds and upgrading.. or flash FSO MS3 once released? Aug 28 14:14:53 that depends on the type and connection of the clock Aug 28 14:15:30 Wonka: hm, interesting. Is it possible with current neo hardware, theoretically? Aug 28 14:15:40 no idea Aug 28 14:17:00 paroneayea: yes it's possible, you set an alarm on the realtime clock Aug 28 14:17:08 paroneayea: which then generates an interrupt Aug 28 14:17:14 paroneayea: which then wakes up the cpu Aug 28 14:17:20 pjz: neat! Aug 28 14:17:39 * pjz has done this before on a linux PDA Aug 28 14:17:48 so what phone server and dialer the latest 2008.8 use for gsm ? Aug 28 14:17:56 pjz: .... the Zaurus? ;) Aug 28 14:18:01 paroneayea: (pretty much every PC can do this.) Aug 28 14:18:05 paroneayea: nope. the Agenda VR3 Aug 28 14:18:16 rtcdate(1) is a common way to set RTC alarms on Linux Aug 28 14:18:27 cjb: cool, thanks. Noted. Aug 28 14:18:28 hipitihop: I think they're still using the qtopia-ported-to-x11 stuff Aug 28 14:19:23 we hacked 'at' so it had a flag you could add to make it schedule a rtc alarm along with the 'normal' scheduling Aug 28 14:19:30 pjz, but considering I can't call or receive on fso-testing at the mo, it will hardly be going backwards Aug 28 14:19:32 er, at Agenda, we did etc Aug 28 14:19:58 hipitihop: if you want stable-and-usable, fso is the wrong tree to be barking up Aug 28 14:20:18 hehe Aug 28 14:20:28 I just started playing with the d-bus interface this morning Aug 28 14:20:30 it's so awesome Aug 28 14:20:34 * pjz nods Aug 28 14:20:46 paroneayea: yeah, it's pretty sweet, you can see why mickeyl likes it so much Aug 28 14:21:02 pjz: who's mickeyl? Aug 28 14:21:25 (forgive my ignorance) Aug 28 14:22:00 paroneayea: Michael 'Mickey' Lauer (maybe misspelled) is one of the main fso devs Aug 28 14:22:43 ah, cool Aug 28 14:22:47 pjz, I'm a developer but not yet ready to do anything on the fr as far as development but happy to experiment and teak stuff, would like something that can be used as a phone with sms, all else happy to wait and play Aug 28 14:22:57 <_-Damien-_> hi there... has anyone experience with U-Boot on Freerunner? Aug 28 14:23:17 <_-Damien-_> is it possible that I can't access the external SDRAM? Aug 28 14:23:25 <_-Damien-_> from uboot? Aug 28 14:24:20 <_-Damien-_> in the earlier device gta01bv4 it was possible though Aug 28 14:24:26 http://www.cellular.co.za/accessories/encryption/cryptophone_gsm_phone_encryption.htm intersting... Aug 28 14:24:28 I started playing with the zhone source this morning. pretty cool that it accomplishes so much, esp in so little code... but it's not really a group of apps, it's one big app. is there any public effort of people trying to make individual apps for dialing/messaging/ etc Aug 28 14:24:30 ? Aug 28 14:24:44 paroneayea: for frameworkd ? Aug 28 14:25:48 Ainulindale: I think so Aug 28 14:26:02 SHR is going that way Aug 28 14:26:11 We still need people to do this and that Aug 28 14:26:26 Especially people to end that @#:! gtk dialer and start a qt one Aug 28 14:26:43 lol Aug 28 14:26:56 paroneayea: we're porting the 2007.2 dialer to FSO in fact Aug 28 14:27:07 Ainulindale: sweet! Aug 28 14:27:10 Doing that we needed to do a very heavy rework Aug 28 14:27:36 And now we are at a state of the development where someone could easily implement any kind of "dialer" library on top of FSO Aug 28 14:27:38 I thought the OM team mostly wanted to stay away from QT for new development because of the GPL libraries, though? Aug 28 14:27:49 SHR is a community driven project Aug 28 14:27:51 yeah, that seems pretty clear Aug 28 14:30:09 does anyone have opinions on adding a secure voice mode to Noe Freerunner ? maybe Diffie Helmann and RSA keys, or perhaps twofish? Aug 28 14:30:35 isprins: to use over GSM network? Aug 28 14:30:36 isprins: is it possible? Aug 28 14:30:51 the voice data comes/goes over the GSM module, not the CPU Aug 28 14:30:54 isprins: there are obstacles to overcome: filtering from the provider Aug 28 14:30:56 you don't have access to the GSM firmware Aug 28 14:31:20 cjb: isn't is possible to feed the GSM with custom audio? Aug 28 14:31:24 cbj: it is possible : http://www.cellular.co.za/accessories/encryption/cryptophone_gsm_phone_encryption.htm Aug 28 14:31:30 I guess it depends whether the modem has a direct link to the speakers and the mic or one that goes through the CPU Aug 28 14:31:38 cjb: I thought it would be possible to for example create a custom answering machine Aug 28 14:31:53 isprins: um, I know it's possible on other phones. I'm asking whether it's possible on this one. Aug 28 14:32:25 I think it is possible, but that the main obstacle is the filtering of the GSM operators... Aug 28 14:32:44 I cannot wait to finish the rickroll application Aug 28 14:32:49 zorkman: what kind of filtering ? Aug 28 14:32:50 Zorkman: my impression is that it's not possible to feed custom audio Aug 28 14:33:00 some filter out as much as possible that does not resemble "human voice" Aug 28 14:33:01 of course, you could do it over wifi Aug 28 14:33:06 but I guess encrypted voice over wifi is not new Aug 28 14:33:15 there has been extensive talk about this on the mailiglist isprins Aug 28 14:33:22 Zorkman: that just means you have a smaller keyspace to operate in :) Aug 28 14:33:49 zorkman: interesting Aug 28 14:34:06 not sure, in my opinion it will not be trivial (but I also think that feeding the GSM with audio is possible, so I might be talking shit :)) Aug 28 14:35:08 guys, is there any way to know of which material exactly the freerunner cover is made? Aug 28 14:35:27 i have seen plug in encryption modules for gsm phones Aug 28 14:35:43 isprins: you could contact these guys: http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/moksec/ Aug 28 14:35:55 phrozen77: take it apart and look for a recycling arrow icon and a number Aug 28 14:35:59 phrozen77: contact openmoko Aug 28 14:36:03 zorkman: thanks for the url Aug 28 14:36:23 feitingen, that'd help me to get the exact plastic used? Aug 28 14:36:30 np isprins; last I hear from them is that they were looking for people who are interested in helpin Aug 28 14:36:32 *g Aug 28 14:36:43 feitingen, theres no such symbol Aug 28 14:36:45 phrozen77: yes, the number will tell you, i think pcb is 9 or something Aug 28 14:36:58 there should be :( Aug 28 14:37:01 hm Aug 28 14:37:05 i need to know it for the case Aug 28 14:37:23 i like the rubberish finnish (too bad i covered it up with a protector :)) Aug 28 14:37:44 Zorkman: yeah, its awesome Aug 28 14:37:45 speaking about covers... a cover made of TiAl4v or 316SS should be nice Aug 28 14:37:57 Zorkman, i like that finish too :) Aug 28 14:38:42 isprins: wouldn't 316SS pose some problems because it blocks some radiation (wifi, gps, gsm...) Aug 28 14:38:59 Zorkman, do you by chance know the mail-address for om= Aug 28 14:39:00 = Aug 28 14:39:02 meh Aug 28 14:39:03 ? Aug 28 14:39:12 ?? Aug 28 14:39:19 zorkman: that is a problem, must use a external antenna perhaps Aug 28 14:39:26 this sounds like a noob question, just downloaded latest dfu-util to flash latest 2008.8 but get error "./dfu-util: ./dfu-util: cannot execute binary file" pointers ? Aug 28 14:39:51 the cover of my nokia is stainless steeel Aug 28 14:40:02 isprins, that doesnt exactly help me ;) Aug 28 14:40:19 hipitihop: do you have a 64-bit machine? what Linux is it running? Aug 28 14:40:28 hipitihop: looks like the binary doesn't match your architecture somehow. Aug 28 14:40:28 32bit ubuntu Aug 28 14:40:59 hipithob: Get it from the wiki page, not directly in the download directory Aug 28 14:41:07 just donwloaded it from here http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Om2008.8-update/ Aug 28 14:41:36 phrozen77: i know, it is possible that it is ABS ? Aug 28 14:41:41 hipitihop: x86? Aug 28 14:41:46 maybe, but i need to know it exactly Aug 28 14:41:47 I dunno, then Aug 28 14:41:53 maybe a corrupted download Aug 28 14:42:15 Probably not corrupted, I had the same error ! Aug 28 14:42:20 phrozen77: i think only the OM people can give you this information, I haven't rtead it anywhere Aug 28 14:42:24 has there been any change to it lately ? I have a previous of 20080804 Aug 28 14:42:35 cjb yes Aug 28 14:42:36 Get it from: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/releases/Freerunner/dfu-util Aug 28 14:42:48 it's 32 bits Aug 28 14:43:04 And file a bug in the trac please Aug 28 14:43:17 haduong: but the topic says dont use buildhost.openmoko.org Aug 28 14:44:24 Nevertheless. Aug 28 14:44:38 Zorkman, mail sent Aug 28 14:44:54 Or you recompile from source http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Dfu-util Aug 28 14:46:17 haduong, http://buildhost.openmoko.org/releases/Freerunner/dfu-util works fine thanks. Sorry have you link to trac ? Aug 28 14:47:23 hipitihop: I am not surprised it works, I had exactly the same bug as you. Trac is : http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ Aug 28 14:57:34 <_-Damien-_> hm, has anyone ever tried to write and read beyond 0x34000000 from within u-boot on a gta02 platform??? Aug 28 14:57:36 haduong, fyi, ticket added Aug 28 14:57:47 thx Aug 28 14:58:04 <_-Damien-_> the external sdram seems not to be accessible Aug 28 14:58:39 are the feeds correct for update/upgrade in that image ? Aug 28 14:59:59 * hipitihop waves goodnight to all, time for sleep Aug 28 15:00:06 hip: updage/upgrade worked fine so far with the 2008.08.26 Aug 28 15:00:27 haduong, thanx Aug 28 15:01:04 * hipitihop_zzz boots latest 2008.8 Aug 28 15:09:52 hm Aug 28 15:10:03 qtopia doesnt resume after suspend when called - normal? Aug 28 15:11:46 phrozen77: normal as in it doesn't seem to be implemented yet ;) Aug 28 15:12:01 :O Aug 28 15:12:58 I've heard somebody claim they have that working on some image somewhere... I'm sure its coming sometime in The Future (TM) Aug 28 15:13:08 somebody should have told me that! this is an OUTRAGE! Aug 28 15:13:12 :P Aug 28 15:13:25 Sue them all !!! Aug 28 15:13:33 and let god sort it out! Aug 28 15:15:56 What's new, kids? Aug 28 15:18:33 when moko is plugged into computer or charger it keeps saying charging (now for 3rd hour). does it ever change or I can just unplug after time I think it had enough ? Aug 28 15:19:33 does anyone know what kind of specs the GTA03 will have ? Aug 28 15:20:14 isprins: nope, but here's some free speculation for you: Aug 28 15:20:17 isprins: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA03_revisions Aug 28 15:20:38 paroneayea, haduong - i was just kidding, hope that's been obvious Aug 28 15:21:10 isprins: http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td729555|a729555 Aug 28 15:21:17 When I boot from the sd card, what device does the internal flash show up as? Aug 28 15:21:20 phrozen77: it was obvious, don't worry :) Aug 28 15:21:32 you never know so.... Aug 28 15:21:33 ;) Aug 28 15:22:52 mononoke, you can unplug it when it's full Aug 28 15:23:05 use one of the many power apps to figure out when that is actually :) Aug 28 15:25:10 hm, I guess it's mtdblock0-6? Aug 28 15:25:58 hello! has anyone use mokostat successfully? Aug 28 15:26:34 Dave any specific power apps to recommend? Aug 28 15:26:41 hehe cannot play wma, what a good news. finaly something forcing me to recode Aug 28 15:27:28 http://diydrones.com/ Aug 28 15:29:00 Infoport! Aug 28 15:29:02 Yes, two Aug 28 15:29:22 batmon, by lint and battery by a group of crazy germans Aug 28 15:29:29 Noe should be usable in a drone, since it already has accelerometers Aug 28 15:29:35 neo* Aug 28 15:32:15 Dave where can you find those battery apps? searching the wiki didn't yield a hit Aug 28 15:35:44 yep Aug 28 15:35:49 one sec Aug 28 15:36:14 here's lint's crappy batmon appliation Aug 28 15:36:17 http://tehinterweb.com/freerunner/projects/power.py Aug 28 15:36:56 you know i ported that to c, which used about half as much memory? Aug 28 15:37:08 Dave: and an excellent domain name too! Aug 28 15:37:21 nah Aug 28 15:37:28 Hi Aug 28 15:37:28 it's inTARweb Aug 28 15:37:29 :\ Aug 28 15:37:33 hey, I just googled and found something similarly named on Tucows (who now is not only Windoze) Aug 28 15:37:34 Hello Mr. Bot Aug 28 15:37:43 Just bought a FreeRunner, cant wait for it to get here! =D Aug 28 15:37:50 info the nicer looking one is available at freeyourphone.de Aug 28 15:38:08 I wonder if this is the same BatMon http://www.tucows.com/preview/215816 Aug 28 15:38:12 yeah, i saw screen caps of it Aug 28 15:38:19 a lot nicer looking :) Aug 28 15:38:27 hah, indeed! :D Aug 28 15:38:28 damnit Aug 28 15:38:32 lint, you want it? Aug 28 15:38:35 I had a Q about the audio... For headphones, will I get stereo sound? Aug 28 15:38:39 freerunner Aug 28 15:38:42 sooooo temptinggggg Aug 28 15:38:52 but! I will resist till gta03 Aug 28 15:38:58 okay Aug 28 15:39:06 for now you can continue to troll in here. :) Aug 28 15:39:07 Infoport, no, that was even "published" in 2001 :) Aug 28 15:39:14 ;) Aug 28 15:39:19 Does freerunner do stereo sound for headphones? Aug 28 15:39:43 b0ib0t, yes Aug 28 15:39:51 well, it supports it, in theory :P Aug 28 15:40:26 ieatlint oops, I missed the year digit. I guess published last year or a few days from now would both have been odd too Aug 28 15:40:33 yeah it's stereo Aug 28 15:40:41 sweet Aug 28 15:40:47 Infoport, what are you inquiring about now? Aug 28 15:40:50 ~_~ Aug 28 15:40:50 STOP DOING THAT! Aug 28 15:40:54 apt shush Aug 28 15:40:55 Fine, I'll shut up. Aug 28 15:40:59 * Dave pets apt Aug 28 15:41:01 i was hoping to use it some for listning to tunes at work Aug 28 15:41:03 good bot :) Aug 28 15:41:20 boibot, I have it hooked up to a stereo system, it's fine :) Aug 28 15:41:29 apt, how much? Aug 28 15:41:30 how much is, like, the euro Aug 28 15:41:36 i have a everex cloudbook, and i was using that, but damned people kept shooting the screen with foam darts D= Aug 28 15:41:45 haha Aug 28 15:41:47 silly people Aug 28 15:42:41 get back at them Aug 28 15:42:43 lint, did you eat breakfast yet? Aug 28 15:42:51 lint, potato gun? :P Aug 28 15:42:58 retaliatory strike! Aug 28 15:43:00 if they use vga monitors, go look up the specs and cut one of rgb pins on the cable Aug 28 15:43:00 Dave just comparing the weird executable on Tucows to ieatlint's Python script. I don't really like Tucows or closed executables, so I'm just gonna say Dog! and forget Tucows again Aug 28 15:43:03 so everything is tinted Aug 28 15:43:06 Doh! Aug 28 15:43:11 Stereo is not so obvious to setup Aug 28 15:43:14 moo? Aug 28 15:43:23 does flash work on the freerunner, like could i go to youtube on it? Aug 28 15:43:26 how is it a setup? Aug 28 15:43:32 boibot, not yet Aug 28 15:43:35 ah Aug 28 15:43:48 it's not a high priority either :P Aug 28 15:43:57 Dave, "yet" ? :P Aug 28 15:44:10 until adobe decides otherwise, flash will never be on the freerunner Aug 28 15:44:14 I can't even get sound on both speakers with the headset Aug 28 15:44:14 If vlc can run on it, one could rip vids from youtube and play them I bet Aug 28 15:44:25 ieatlint: gnash? Aug 28 15:44:27 mplayer runs Aug 28 15:44:35 there you go Aug 28 15:44:36 ieatlint, hooray! Aug 28 15:44:36 paroneayea, gnash is a pos Aug 28 15:44:37 perfect Aug 28 15:45:03 ieatlint: well then, how fitting. A POS app for a POS platform Aug 28 15:45:12 er Aug 28 15:45:15 :O Aug 28 15:45:16 by that I meant Flash Aug 28 15:45:20 not the openmoko Aug 28 15:45:22 as being POS Aug 28 15:45:26 huhu Aug 28 15:45:33 i was going to say, the phone isn't a point of sale device Aug 28 15:45:42 lmao Aug 28 15:46:00 mobile POS for the travelling store Aug 28 15:46:19 b0ib0t, stores have those Aug 28 15:46:29 :) Aug 28 15:46:42 you actually could turn it into a POS... Aug 28 15:46:49 ieatlint, I'm going to pimp yo app Aug 28 15:46:52 attach a barcode reader and/or magstrip reader if needed Aug 28 15:46:53 can it take keyboard input from usb? Aug 28 15:47:00 b0ib0t, yes Aug 28 15:47:05 Dave, which app? Aug 28 15:47:05 sweeeet! Aug 28 15:47:13 boibot, sort of Aug 28 15:47:19 ieatlint, batmon :p Aug 28 15:47:32 Dave, then do it with the c version Aug 28 15:47:45 fne Aug 28 15:47:47 :) Aug 28 15:47:55 i've fully abandoned the python version... the c version i just don't have plans to do anything more with right now :) Aug 28 15:48:00 i'm not an eye candy person.. Aug 28 15:48:32 nor do i feel segfaults are a bad thing Aug 28 15:48:35 Dave assuming that I find the "battery" app on freeyourphone.de, will it be in German only too? Aug 28 15:49:00 no Aug 28 15:49:09 The few words in it are all English! Aug 28 15:49:22 ieatlint, bah! Aug 28 15:49:22 not to mention translating 5 words used in an app like that wouldn't take long Aug 28 15:49:23 oooo I am SO going to buy a CueCat so I can scan my library into Tellico with my FR Aug 28 15:49:34 heh Aug 28 15:49:35 -_- Aug 28 15:49:44 Ieatlint, but clearly, first, priorities! Aug 28 15:49:55 clate ui! Aug 28 15:50:19 clate is a ui... albeit, it's a completely hacked thing that needs to be scrapped Aug 28 15:50:35 uh huh Aug 28 15:50:39 I kind of noticed :P Aug 28 15:50:41 liblate is what i've been concentrating on... Aug 28 15:50:44 right Aug 28 15:50:47 as you should be! Aug 28 15:51:02 Later on a sexy (effective) [g]ui could be developed! Aug 28 15:51:08 I'd hit it! Aug 28 15:51:27 i could throw together a gui very quickly, but since i am going to be showing it to a bunch of dev geeks on saturday and on tuesday, i want a good backend api Aug 28 15:51:42 since there's a decent chance they'll want to play with it, and i want the api set so i don't go changing it Aug 28 15:52:38 Yeah that would be nice Aug 28 15:52:43 I despise exploding software Aug 28 15:52:51 and yet, here I am... using the freerunner? Aug 28 15:52:55 there are a few miscellaneous functions left to write that are mostly 1 liners (things that just are like get_current_database type crap) Aug 28 15:52:59 (perhaps it's a devious fetish) :O Aug 28 15:53:07 heh Aug 28 15:53:09 right now it's code cleanup Aug 28 15:53:17 get_current_bus->speed Aug 28 15:53:23 organising source files and adding some comments Aug 28 15:53:25 hoenoes! Aug 28 15:53:31 good good Aug 28 15:53:36 I need to create a db Aug 28 15:53:37 :[ Aug 28 15:53:45 no worries :) Aug 28 15:53:55 I just passed a few buses on the way back, and it made me think of it :) Aug 28 15:53:58 the library will make one for you by the end of today Aug 28 15:54:05 Excellent! Aug 28 15:54:09 My excitement returns! Aug 28 15:54:16 as well as my hunger... Aug 28 15:54:23 i have most of it written, just need to test it Aug 28 15:54:29 unfortunately I now have to delve into my poorly coded python apps Aug 28 15:54:35 damn snakes Aug 28 15:55:07 hm, so fsck for jjfs2 is not installed :/ Aug 28 15:55:23 Dave well I dont suppose you could point me to the battery app itself? I am browsing that site using Babelfish, but not sure where to look Aug 28 15:55:42 sure Aug 28 15:56:01 Dave, the api is very simple too :) Aug 28 15:56:12 I am wondering, I have been working on a game in Allegro game lib, I wonder if it could work on the freerunner... I do believe Allegro has the option to render to framebuffer.... seems like it would work. Aug 28 15:56:52 The video bus speed is very slow. Aug 28 15:56:54 to list all the bus lines, you run 5 functions: create an liblate object, set the agency, query the lines (returns a glist of them), free the list, close the object Aug 28 15:56:56 7M/s. Aug 28 15:57:41 And if you're pushing 3.5M to the CPU, you're also using 50% of CPU Aug 28 15:58:09 http://hdr.meetr.de/neo/openmoko/battery/battery_0.20080721_armv4t.ipk Aug 28 15:58:13 ieatlint, sweet Aug 28 15:58:20 someone just needs to port the oregon trail to the freerunner Aug 28 15:58:37 nah, the old red barron flight sim Aug 28 15:58:42 that'd pwn Aug 28 15:58:45 ieatlint, YES! Aug 28 15:58:49 I have the floppy diskette! Aug 28 15:58:54 lmao Aug 28 15:59:04 man, most of my awesome games are on floppies Aug 28 15:59:05 control the airplane by tilting the phone Aug 28 15:59:06 ieatlint no to really eat up my time we need Nethack (or the more graphical Falcon's Eye version) Aug 28 15:59:18 airplanes? in oregon trail? Aug 28 15:59:22 wrong game! Aug 28 15:59:24 I've played nethack on it. Aug 28 15:59:26 (remotely) Aug 28 15:59:28 no no, red barron! Aug 28 15:59:34 haha Aug 28 15:59:38 old dos flight sim Aug 28 15:59:40 With display on FR Aug 28 15:59:42 err Aug 28 15:59:43 neo Aug 28 15:59:44 Infoport, there is nethack Aug 28 15:59:57 how about doom? Aug 28 15:59:59 I need a keyboard Aug 28 16:00:04 yeah so I can play doom and heretic Aug 28 16:00:08 or a controller Aug 28 16:00:12 i miss tie fighter :( Aug 28 16:00:15 SpeedEvil i can play nethack right here, but it would be much better when waiting somewhere than playing minesweeper Aug 28 16:00:17 zorkman was trying to get his PS3 controller working with it Aug 28 16:00:27 they never really updated that game past win95 Aug 28 16:00:32 Infoport: zoom is horrible Aug 28 16:00:38 i bet its fast enough to do quake 1... a quake 1 neo wireless lan party... would be neat Aug 28 16:01:03 HOT Aug 28 16:01:06 Infoport: And floating eye/orc ... Aug 28 16:01:09 PARTY AT LINT'S HOUSE! Aug 28 16:01:10 :P Aug 28 16:01:19 hah, you don't know where i live Aug 28 16:01:27 Do I even want to know? :P Aug 28 16:01:29 ieatlint: france. Aug 28 16:01:46 actually you might live right next to a friend of mine, I wouldn't be at all surprised. Aug 28 16:01:57 Lint, I may find out, next week >:) Aug 28 16:02:00 SpeedEvil, actually, i have self respect Aug 28 16:02:44 Dave, i can walk to LDAC.. is that near your friend? :P Aug 28 16:03:34 i should go walk to the golden gate bridge, connect to irc on my freerunner, and you can see me in the traffic cameras Aug 28 16:04:47 SpeedEvil, Dave, remotely playing nethack isnt enough...I want to take the game with me, play, and then maybe use Hearse to upload the bones files back to my PC Aug 28 16:05:01 8P Aug 28 16:07:07 speedevil u mind if i PM u some hardware type questions? Aug 28 16:07:24 Dave, ieatlint, the python batmon is just run at cmd line, or am I meant to setup a .desktop file for it? Aug 28 16:07:49 Infoport, yes Aug 28 16:08:01 as in... you can do either, it's not a console app Aug 28 16:11:27 right Aug 28 16:11:39 ncurses ftw! Aug 28 16:12:05 Everything's better in the console, right? ;) Aug 28 16:12:55 my moko just left canada :) Aug 28 16:13:14 is someone making an ncurses based dialer? ;) Aug 28 16:13:17 that would be sweet Aug 28 16:13:22 except at that hotel in DC...what those people were doing in windows was definitely GOOD (from our view at least) Aug 28 16:13:47 #openvpn Aug 28 16:13:53 but most close the shades and its just wasted Aug 28 16:13:58 o.O Aug 28 16:14:10 Infoport, what are you going on about, anyway? Aug 28 16:14:20 do we really want to KNOW what you did in that hotel, behind closed doors? Aug 28 16:14:55 Dave *sigh* I guess I need breakfast, but my console isnt cooperating (make coffee!) Aug 28 16:14:55 :P Aug 28 16:15:29 I'd rather just put you out of your misery :) Aug 28 16:15:59 or check if you moved on tango friends :P Aug 28 16:16:09 Dave uggghh that would be Waffle House coffee...my coffee raises the dead Aug 28 16:16:20 scons coffee Aug 28 16:16:20 AAaaaaahh! ZOMBIES! Aug 28 16:16:23 * Dave runs Aug 28 16:18:30 ieatlint "No module named cairo" am I doing something wrong? need to install dependencies first? Aug 28 16:18:57 you're on your own for libraries :P Aug 28 16:19:11 the python version requires pygtk Aug 28 16:19:26 huhu Aug 28 16:19:39 Install libraries, fool! Aug 28 16:19:42 :) Aug 28 16:19:51 lol, how long have these egyptians been terrorizing people? Aug 28 16:20:00 TERRORISTS!? Aug 28 16:20:00 seems like last week everyone complains about cairo Aug 28 16:20:04 anyone know if the angstrom repo with pidgin can be used on fso ms2 ? Aug 28 16:20:05 Zorkman :] Aug 28 16:20:27 Zorkman, it's 1967 all over again Aug 28 16:20:35 haha Aug 28 16:20:50 McBain to base, McBain to base! Under attack by commie-nazis! Aug 28 16:20:58 :) Aug 28 16:21:20 communazis methinks Aug 28 16:21:53 haha Aug 28 16:22:07 are they good at communicating? Aug 28 16:22:09 :p Aug 28 16:22:26 * Zorkman is wondering what Bug#2008 will be and if there will be a party involved Aug 28 16:23:10 heh Aug 28 16:23:12 opkg install libpython? Aug 28 16:23:15 I'm surprised there isn't more already Aug 28 16:23:22 infoport python-pygtk? Aug 28 16:23:48 Don't make me slap you around with a moldy old cod! Aug 28 16:25:47 doh! no, I already had it installed, and cairo still not found Aug 28 16:26:08 Infoport: file a bug report, I've seen a lot of people complaining about it Aug 28 16:26:55 infoport, noob. Aug 28 16:27:19 use the force, infoport! Aug 28 16:27:20 or celtune :p Aug 28 16:28:19 hm. neither of those battery apps are doing much for me. The "fancy" one just gives me an app with an icon in Utilities Aug 28 16:28:36 which apps are you referring to infoport? Aug 28 16:29:19 Baton and "battery" app from German developers Aug 28 16:29:24 Batmon Aug 28 16:29:42 strange.. they work on my 2007.2 and 2008.8-upgrade withouth problems Aug 28 16:29:56 you should complain to ieatlint about this :p Aug 28 16:30:05 ugh, I seem to have some kind of corruption, Qtopia won't boot from the internal flash anymore Aug 28 16:30:13 maybe a reboot (already restarted xserver, but reboot is the magic fix-all) Aug 28 16:30:18 it boots for a while and then gives me a black screen and blinking cursor Aug 28 16:30:37 Infoport: what error message do you get when you try to run it? Aug 28 16:30:40 johnsu01: can you ssh in? Aug 28 16:30:49 I booted into debian on the sd card, and ran fsck on the mtdblk devices Aug 28 16:31:07 woa deb runs on the neo? Aug 28 16:31:24 b0ib0t: where have you been the last weeks? Aug 28 16:31:30 paroneayea: Hm, didn't try that, I don't think it gets that far but I'll give it a go Aug 28 16:31:33 i just bought my neo today Aug 28 16:31:39 its all new to me Aug 28 16:31:40 b0ib0t: yep :) Aug 28 16:31:46 wow Aug 28 16:31:46 ah, then you have a lot of catching up to do :p Aug 28 16:31:51 yes i do Aug 28 16:31:56 i hope to dev for it eventually Aug 28 16:32:01 Zorkman on the python script, I got error "No module named cairo" and the other app I just tried to run from menu (busy circle then nothing) Aug 28 16:32:01 i'm just getting up to speed Aug 28 16:32:14 Infoport, try the c version Aug 28 16:33:31 b0ib0t: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian and http://wiki.debian.org/DebianOnFreeRunner is what you want to install and use debian Aug 28 16:34:05 sweet, thnx for the linkage =] Aug 28 16:35:08 np b0ib0t, check http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions for the other distributions Aug 28 16:35:08 ieatlint where is the C version? oh hey I was also running power.py -- but looking at your site I see batmon.py also Aug 28 16:35:17 http://ext.tehinterweb.com/freerunner/batmon/ Aug 28 16:35:26 Infoport, that must be an old version Aug 28 16:35:32 (unfortunatly portin Win CE is still not don ^_^) Aug 28 16:36:04 ooohh, ok someone sent me to the WRONG url (*ahem* Dave) Aug 28 16:36:27 Dave strikes again!!! :) Aug 28 16:36:58 Infoport, ooh, it was an old c version up there :) Aug 28 16:37:00 just updated it Aug 28 16:37:15 the file should be 21968 bytes Aug 28 16:37:23 if it's not, it's the old version :P Aug 28 16:37:43 any chance slackware runs on freerunner? lol Aug 28 16:38:50 b0ib0t, sure, if you want to put the effort into it Aug 28 16:38:59 ieatlint: when did you last update batmon.py or batter.py? (just to check ifit is useful to redownload it) Aug 28 16:39:19 Muwahahahaha! Aug 28 16:39:29 Zorkman, i dunno, a long while ago Aug 28 16:39:37 ieatlint cool! I like it!! I may have to add a .desktop file so I can pull it up from Utilities menu Aug 28 16:39:40 k, np then Aug 28 16:39:42 http://lint.devjavu.com/browser/batmon has the current batmon.py Aug 28 16:39:43 >:P Aug 28 16:39:50 (and the current c files, but not binary) Aug 28 16:40:27 woo Aug 28 16:40:44 lpotter: does qtopia also have problems with echoing while phoning? Aug 28 16:40:44 btw, I think that the other battery app may have added functionality to the battery ICON, rather than opening a program across the whole display (a little odd to run it from icon then) Aug 28 16:41:08 i mean, odd to run that other battery appp from a MENU icon Aug 28 16:41:35 paroneayea: hm, I actually can ssh into it, wtf Aug 28 16:41:38 no Aug 28 16:42:34 i second bumbl's question. Will qtopia get me more polished telephony over 2007.2? Aug 28 16:43:00 My dad was complaining about the buzzing last night Aug 28 16:43:15 I suggest you get an sd card and put qtopia on it and find out Aug 28 16:43:25 buzzing? Aug 28 16:43:28 death whistle? Aug 28 16:43:35 "better" and "more polished" are such subjective qualities Aug 28 16:43:38 no one died Aug 28 16:43:38 * b0ib0t reads carefully Aug 28 16:43:52 ieatlint this will be nice to check if my iGo car charger is actually pushing 500mA or just 100 Aug 28 16:43:52 pjz okay I'll find out for myself Aug 28 16:43:53 anybody have any suggestions about what GPS packages to install in addition to tangoGPS on debian? Aug 28 16:44:20 Infoport, well, odds are it does more than 100... but be careful Aug 28 16:44:25 there's a warrning for a reason :) Aug 28 16:44:49 ieatlint: how's your wifi stuff? does it work on 2008.08 ? Aug 28 16:44:59 pjz, no Aug 28 16:45:11 i was under the impression network manager was bring brought in Aug 28 16:45:16 so i didn't want to re-invent the wheel Aug 28 16:45:29 ieatlint oh sure...I'm just not sure if my phone has been charging on only 100mA as it is, and using more (then dying) or if it is just other issues (dev phone & OSes after all) Aug 28 16:46:03 Infoport, well, by default, the phone will only draw 100ma from usb unless it knows it can do more Aug 28 16:46:19 the phone is likely to only draw 100ma from a car charger Aug 28 16:46:30 (by default) Aug 28 16:46:58 which is why i wrote that app... wanted to be able to easily force it to pull more from chargers Aug 28 16:47:17 i have a usb y-cable to pull 1A off of my computer, for instance Aug 28 16:47:32 i don't get the gsm interfering noise but rather the other person hears his voice again (echo) Aug 28 16:48:33 amp it up, baby! Aug 28 16:48:37 so, qpe is running and I can ssh in, but there is nothing displayed on the screen Aug 28 16:48:51 ieatlint interesting...I was approaching it more for the info it gives, but I may think about forcing too (I'll check first, but pretty sure I got the more powerful car charger) Aug 28 16:49:07 johnsu01, try restarting qpe ( /etc/init.d/qpe restart ) Aug 28 16:49:21 johnsu01, just a foolish thing, but have you tried pressing the power button for a second? mine is always blank on boot until I do that Aug 28 16:49:54 Infoport, i'd be surprised if it didn't give at least 500ma... Aug 28 16:50:02 anybody have any suggestions about what GPS packages to install in addition to tangoGPS on debian? Aug 28 16:50:12 ieatlint: it restarts with no errors other than a couple things about libstdc++, which were happening before, when it worked Aug 28 16:50:16 hmm Aug 28 16:50:29 weatherhead: yeah, I still just have a blank screen and blinking cursor Aug 28 16:51:43 ieatlint how do you use the y-cable to force 1A? do you use it backward, plugged into two ports on PC and the one spot on Neo? Aug 28 16:51:59 Infoport, precisley Aug 28 16:52:30 Infoport, basically, most usb ports today can provide .5A Aug 28 16:52:36 2 ports, 1A Aug 28 16:53:08 if you plug the phone into usb (on a computer) and it doesn't give you .5A, then don't force anything Aug 28 16:53:23 unless it's a self-powered super-awesome hub :D Aug 28 16:53:29 (it negotiates the power level through usb's protocol, but if you draw more than negotiated, it still works) Aug 28 16:53:59 i dunno if a hub can negotiate power levels... will have to check sometime :) Aug 28 16:54:02 * Dave draws a mental image of a nextbus bus speeding down a tube on fire Aug 28 16:54:06 (as in, do it independent of the computer) Aug 28 16:54:14 lint, it can, yes Aug 28 16:54:20 I have one :) Aug 28 16:54:23 ok, there you go then :P Aug 28 16:54:36 seems straightforward. I need to get some usb adapters so I can make some devices fit mini-B Aug 28 16:54:52 hells yeah you do! Aug 28 16:55:08 i need to get a 1A usb car charger and then modify it so it has the special resistor that the phone takes to mean it can auto-draw 1A Aug 28 16:55:25 hell yeah you do! Aug 28 16:55:42 47k? Aug 28 16:55:48 i think so Aug 28 16:55:51 1.21JW? Aug 28 16:55:55 that would be sweet! what would the effect be on other devices? nothing b/c they don't look for it? Aug 28 16:55:56 :P Aug 28 16:56:02 http://quickstart.openmoko.org/#chargerdetection has it Aug 28 16:56:18 porn.openmymoko.org Aug 28 16:56:38 Infoport, on the off chance other devices use the same type of resistor, they'd also draw 1A... otherwise it'd be a dumb charger, just like your usb car charger is Aug 28 16:56:57 this appears to be my problem Aug 28 16:56:59 http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td674097 Aug 28 16:57:44 ieatlint good to know it could still be a dumb charger...my car charger is an Monster/iGo charger with different tips for different devices Aug 28 16:58:02 Essentially all USB chargers are 'dumb'. Aug 28 16:58:15 The alternative is for it to be basically a computer. Aug 28 16:58:18 Infoport, yeah, my ex was constantly using my OM wall charger for her phone... no issues :P Aug 28 16:58:44 Or enough of one to read and tell the phone that it's a computer. Aug 28 16:59:13 in other words, it needs a controller chip such as those founds in computers and hubs Aug 28 16:59:21 duh Aug 28 16:59:28 or be smartar Aug 28 16:59:30 like you! Aug 28 16:59:32 :P Aug 28 16:59:45 The differences between them is the current output, and the resistors or other means of specifically telling their brand of phone that htey are a charger. Aug 28 16:59:54 Not a hub chip - that won't do anything. Aug 28 17:00:04 A hub chip only transfers signals from the computer. Aug 28 17:00:06 did dave lie to me? Aug 28 17:00:06 (sort-of) Aug 28 17:00:17 yet another quickstart online? they need to update that with the wiki about USB networking (unless it is just abandoned) Aug 28 17:00:23 well, a hub chip definitely has power management stuffs Aug 28 17:00:32 i was reading the specs of a TI one the other day Aug 28 17:00:32 ieatlint: no it doesn't really. Aug 28 17:00:39 had the full overdraw stuffs Aug 28 17:00:51 ieatlint: it implements power policy defined by the upstream host. Aug 28 17:01:08 In the absence of a host, it does (more or less) nothing. Aug 28 17:01:17 I have read the part about charging and the special resistor in the charger before...just wanted to get another opinion before hacking my Monster charger Aug 28 17:01:19 hmmm Aug 28 17:01:25 It won't negotiate USB configurations with the peripheal. Aug 28 17:01:29 but the power policy of the upstream host is in independent of a self-powered hub Aug 28 17:01:56 ieatlint: nope. The upstream host configures all peripherals, and tells them what power they can draw. Aug 28 17:02:10 i shall check :) Aug 28 17:02:21 so basically a powered hub tells the host that it's okay to promise mucho power to the devices connected to it? Aug 28 17:02:26 ieatlint: even if it goes through hubs, it reads the hubs configuration, then sets up the peripherals on that hub according to the hubs configuration information. Aug 28 17:02:31 mjr: basically Aug 28 17:03:29 The USB bus is completely controlled from the host end. Aug 28 17:03:32 it sounds like a good conversion though, esp since I suspect my car charger was only giving 100mA (I thought that 500mA was done if "fast" USB was possible, like USB 2.0, and was hoping that the charger indicated it to Neo, but probably not) Aug 28 17:03:58 Chargers are seperate really. Aug 28 17:04:51 There are assorted not-standard ways of a device with a 'USB' socket on it calling itself a charger signalling to the device that it can draw power. These are not however defined in the USB standards - apart from very recent additions. Aug 28 17:05:12 And have historically varied between makers in a non-compatible way. Aug 28 17:05:31 yeah, starting to understand that my charger is just "dumb" on many levels...it is supposed to provide more power to other devices on the (Green?) series of tips, but I guess those devices might demand power differently Aug 28 17:06:01 When will 2008 images have wifi that works Aug 28 17:06:03 If it has two connections, then the vast likelyhood is that the tips are simply mechanical adaptors. Aug 28 17:06:15 uh oh, i'm missing my laptop charger Aug 28 17:06:56 * SpeedEvil stabs the USB committee. Aug 28 17:07:11 this would mean my sister was kind enough to steal my charger before flying back to new york yesterday :( Aug 28 17:07:26 Torikun: use mofi; it works Aug 28 17:07:31 SpeedEvil all the tips use the same connection, although they have a Y so you can charge two things (and I bought the charger that could handle PDAs, laptops, and some other more power-greedy devices Aug 28 17:07:34 Torikun: wifi is working, but you have to start it manually ^^ Aug 28 17:07:45 Torikun: but don't disconnect and connect to a different network, that doesn't work :) Aug 28 17:07:54 I can connect to wifi fine but I can not use the browser to go to websites Aug 28 17:08:10 Infoport, aanyway, if your charger can supply more than 100mA but is dumb in a way neo doesn't recognize, you can still tell neo to force drawing of more current Aug 28 17:08:14 don't recall how now Aug 28 17:08:36 mjr, Infoport: ietlints programs have a nice button to do that Aug 28 17:08:37 DNS problems tor? Aug 28 17:09:04 +1 Aug 28 17:09:20 mjr, check the sysfs page on the wiki Aug 28 17:09:50 mjr, Zorkman yes I have ieatlint's program on it now...just making a menu entry. It seems more useful actually than the german "battery" app Aug 28 17:10:06 eh oh Aug 28 17:10:31 don't know which german app you are referring to, but batmon give you all the info you need, current charge, remaining time, current being drawn and temperature Aug 28 17:10:39 ieatlint hey what version would you call the C BatMon? I'm putting in details in the .desktop app Aug 28 17:10:58 lcds are fucking hot Aug 28 17:11:26 Infoport, it should have a version number on the app Aug 28 17:11:27 .3b Aug 28 17:11:34 zorkman, doesn't give you voltage :P Aug 28 17:11:40 unless that has been included :D Aug 28 17:12:14 * Dave_ forces lint to finish the library Aug 28 17:12:28 ieatlint, hmm, read it, seems to imply that you can force the neo to not charge nowadays. Which is nice, actually. Aug 28 17:13:17 Behold! Aug 28 17:13:28 mjr, indeed. Aug 28 17:13:38 Zorkman, you need temperature? Aug 28 17:13:48 it's got that! Aug 28 17:13:51 do i have to enable ssid broadcast on my wlan router? seems that i could not connect. wpa_supplicant says "ssid mismatch"? Aug 28 17:13:54 ok seems to be version .3B (you don't consider it even a v1.0 or a v0.9?) Aug 28 17:13:55 i just put it up there because i had a brief curiosity of how hot it got... Aug 28 17:14:00 We've got all the weed you need... Aug 28 17:14:03 ;) Aug 28 17:14:29 Dave? Dave's not here man! Aug 28 17:14:30 Infoport, how about .3µ? Aug 28 17:14:36 hehehe Aug 28 17:14:37 Infoport -_-; Aug 28 17:14:47 or wait Aug 28 17:15:23 batmon v.3☃ Aug 28 17:15:51 what is that last char? looks like a smudge here Aug 28 17:16:13 oh it's a snowman of course Aug 28 17:16:17 lint :P Aug 28 17:16:28 you and your frosty fetish ;) Aug 28 17:16:40 I wonder what opkg would have to say about that version tag ;p Aug 28 17:16:46 you should try it! :D Aug 28 17:17:19 i don't use opkg Aug 28 17:17:25 i try not to make things too user friendly Aug 28 17:17:42 it removes the sense of accomplishment one gets when they wade through bullshit and finally get something working Aug 28 17:17:50 :D Aug 28 17:17:54 AMEN! Aug 28 17:17:55 thanks, thanks a lot, lint. Aug 28 17:18:01 *boot* Aug 28 17:18:04 jackass :P Aug 28 17:18:10 * wyeager thanks lint for nothing Aug 28 17:18:18 exactly! Aug 28 17:18:19 ieatlint so I guess you run slackware or gentoo at home? Aug 28 17:18:19 :) Aug 28 17:18:26 haw Aug 28 17:18:27 good guess :) Aug 28 17:18:30 gentoo Aug 28 17:18:31 Oh man Aug 28 17:18:35 that reminds me Aug 28 17:18:55 it's fucking hot here Aug 28 17:18:56 :( Aug 28 17:19:15 on 95 this morning, coming down, there was a guy in front of me with a huge purple wing on the back of his car, and it had blue led's illuminating it Aug 28 17:19:28 *funroll-loops nostalgia* Aug 28 17:19:34 the onset was immediate :) Aug 28 17:19:42 that'd be illegal in CA :P Aug 28 17:19:43 lint, yeah yeah, this is why we have A/C's, duh :p Aug 28 17:19:47 lint, psssht Aug 28 17:19:55 you think THEY care about cpb? ;p Aug 28 17:19:58 I have a gentoo partition (well overwritten with Sabayon, gentoo variant) but got tired of recompiling system all the time for little benefit. You sure learn though Aug 28 17:20:08 and i live in san francisco Aug 28 17:20:11 chp Aug 28 17:20:11 we don't have ac Aug 28 17:20:16 lint, haw Aug 28 17:20:18 your fault Aug 28 17:20:30 i blame the sun Aug 28 17:20:38 I blame pastey programmers Aug 28 17:20:45 whiney bitches :P Aug 28 17:20:50 Infoport, benefit? Aug 28 17:20:53 go back to your cave, and your gentoo :p Aug 28 17:20:55 what benefit were you expecting? Aug 28 17:21:21 haha lollerswampcoolers Aug 28 17:21:38 ieatlint I had to pick a different grocery store yesterday b/c the road was flooded from sudden thunderstorms. bleah! complaining about too much sunny weather :P Aug 28 17:21:44 programs won't realistically run faster on gentoo -- rather, gentoo allows you to install only what you want, apply patches more easily, and use unstable/custom software more easily Aug 28 17:22:12 ieatlint yeah I couldnt tell that much of my apps benefited from compiling them myself Aug 28 17:22:16 Infoport, yes, complain to the person who lives in a drought stricken area about how the water plagues you Aug 28 17:22:36 it hasn't rained here since march Aug 28 17:23:13 well there are water problems in NC too, but come on-- CA is known for being sunny all the time Aug 28 17:23:47 most impressions people have of CA are false :P Aug 28 17:23:59 i live in san francisco... we don't generally do sunny Aug 28 17:24:14 when I was shopping for my 67 Karmann Ghia, "CA car" was a regular tag to show it had been in good weather, and some people had made roadsters, no top to go up ever, b/c THEY COULD Aug 28 17:25:12 ieatlint I have an aunt who lives in Mountain View...when we visited she told us to bring sweaters, for the cool breeze off the bay Aug 28 17:26:22 in the summer? MV doesn't get cold then Aug 28 17:27:05 ieatlint for when we were going around SF, the Pier, in her MG, etc Aug 28 17:27:27 but yeah, in the summer Aug 28 17:27:33 for SF, yeah Aug 28 17:28:44 People adapt to climate. Aug 28 17:29:16 20C and sunny is a overly hot for me. Aug 28 17:29:19 (scotland) Aug 28 17:29:51 SpeedEvil very true! I used to live in Houston, and when I moved to NC I would wear an army jacket around in spring/summer. Now I use the A/C a lot and think 90 feel hot. Aug 28 17:29:59 Yeah, 20C and sunny is absolute maximum bearable. Aug 28 17:30:21 When doing anything outside that is. Aug 28 17:30:52 haha lint Aug 28 17:31:03 I like your allusion to how gentoo users are generally more unstable. Aug 28 17:31:04 :) Aug 28 17:31:32 used to ride in mom's car with no A/C, around Houston. Now I put on the A/C when the convertible top is down Aug 28 17:32:34 of course, now I tan in front of computer more than outside XD Aug 28 17:34:13 hlagh Aug 28 17:34:26 stomje ~_~ Aug 28 17:34:48 Infoport: bikes have natural AC: wind :) Aug 28 17:35:48 new package to improve complexion of gentoo users-- just "emerge from-cave-outside" Aug 28 17:36:03 haha Aug 28 17:39:06 YEA! BatMon is now in my Utilities menu. I might have to emerge outside too. Still don't think that other battery app is doing anything. Thanks ieatlint!! yours "just works", well with current version ;) Aug 28 17:40:02 your welcome :) Aug 28 17:40:05 hi Aug 28 17:40:18 and hence the reason i basically haven't done anything with it in weeks... i've nothing to add to it Aug 28 17:41:21 ieatlint, well you *could* add a .desktop file and package it, give it consistency instead of ppl installing themselves, but I like the program itself as-is Aug 28 17:42:15 ok, going to check the car charger... Aug 28 17:44:19 so, what might be the problem if I can ping IPs over USB networking, and have resolv.conf set to a legit nameserver, but can't lookup names? Aug 28 17:47:00 johnsu01: can you access your nameserver (ping? host?) Aug 28 17:47:11 tuXXX: I can ping it by number, yes Aug 28 17:47:38 I don't remember, is the command "host" available? Aug 28 17:47:55 tuXXX: Not on this install, no Aug 28 17:48:41 gah, working now Aug 28 17:49:16 perhaps I had a typo somewhere Aug 28 17:49:49 johncylee: stupid comment - you have your nameserver by IP, not name? Aug 28 17:50:07 SpeedEvil: Yeah Aug 28 17:52:12 I think this qtopia problem is related to the fbset-modes package, which reports an error on opkg upgrade Aug 28 17:57:17 I'm trying to emulate Openmoko with QEMU Aug 28 17:57:26 but it doesn't work Aug 28 17:58:34 I downloaded the makefile; changed the branche to org.openmoko.asu.stable and ran make qemu Aug 28 17:59:15 that I got an image that does nothing than blinking on clicking Aug 28 17:59:36 http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/7690/bildschirmfotoqemull9.png Aug 28 18:00:24 But that is not the ASU-image, isn't it? Aug 28 18:00:45 Proton23: that is an old qtopia image Aug 28 18:01:00 I thought so Aug 28 18:01:05 you need to fiddje with QEMU first, sorry, I can't give you instructions Aug 28 18:01:16 what kind of cable is needed to use the host on usb for the freerunner Aug 28 18:01:25 fiddje??? Aug 28 18:01:31 what does that mean? Aug 28 18:01:32 *fiddle :) Aug 28 18:01:51 to tinker with it Aug 28 18:02:00 ieatlint, a question-- during what time is force in effect? until you Exit? Until you unplug? until you reboot? Aug 28 18:02:01 sorry, english is not my motherlanquage Aug 28 18:02:06 Don't know what that means either Aug 28 18:02:17 play with it, change some variables Aug 28 18:02:27 ieatlint sorry, referring to BatMon force higher current Aug 28 18:02:43 sirkha_top: you need a normal cable... nothing fancy... Aug 28 18:02:46 Zorkman: What is your mother language? Aug 28 18:03:03 Proton23: dutch Aug 28 18:03:21 und ich spreche auch eine bischen Deutsch mein freund :) Aug 28 18:03:23 right, but mini-usb-A male to USB female? Aug 28 18:03:31 :D Aug 28 18:03:31 *ein (I think ^^ ) Aug 28 18:03:41 Right :) Aug 28 18:04:03 Did you know I'm german? ;) Aug 28 18:04:08 sirkha_top, I bought 6 or more USB "camera" cables surplus a while back, and now I just keep those everywhere, for either camera download or use with FR Aug 28 18:04:15 sirkha_top: yes, but I connected some wires on an usb hub so I can use the usb mini to usb male that was supplied with the phone (and that you use to connect to your pc) Aug 28 18:04:20 Proton23: yes Aug 28 18:04:46 How did you figure that out? Aug 28 18:05:07 you're on neo1973-germany and opie.de :p Aug 28 18:05:12 LOL Aug 28 18:05:19 ok that was easy :D Aug 28 18:05:25 and your isp is german :p Aug 28 18:05:34 yeah Aug 28 18:06:15 sirkha_top, I bought them when a store was closing, for $0.49 each, and they are just generic Aug 28 18:06:30 but I'm still stuck with my f***** problem Aug 28 18:06:42 wow, I wish i knew a store that sold them that cheap :) (although I can find some for 3 euro or so on the net) Aug 28 18:07:31 what does fiddle mean? Aug 28 18:07:35 ah, ok, thanks Aug 28 18:07:58 Proton23: there is ablog somewhere on "da internets" that nicely explained what to do (also what to change to get it to act like a gta02) Aug 28 18:07:59 Zorkman it may have been .99 each, but it was a steal. They had a bin with a couple hundred, and lots of other surplus (although most of the good chips and MBs were already sold) Aug 28 18:08:01 Proton23: Ich gehe sogar etwas weiter und behaupte du bist aus leverkusen oder leverkusen umgebung Aug 28 18:08:33 LOL Aug 28 18:08:47 bumbl: Ja, das ist richtig :) Aug 28 18:09:06 you should have bought a hundred and sold them to us :p Aug 28 18:09:06 Bergisch Gladbach um genau zu sein Aug 28 18:09:25 Kennt jeder durch Heidi Klum ;) Aug 28 18:09:28 hehe Aug 28 18:09:38 heh Aug 28 18:10:16 Zorkman sorry it was over a year ago, and I thought that 10 or so was plenty ("Why do you buy so many???" --loving wife) Aug 28 18:10:35 Zorkman: Where do I find this page? :) Aug 28 18:10:46 Zorkman: ! Aug 28 18:10:51 I thought he was from Kïln :( Aug 28 18:10:51 Infoport: ! Aug 28 18:11:04 Proton23: don't know, I lost it... Aug 28 18:11:09 Llo cga! Aug 28 18:11:12 Oh nooooo Aug 28 18:11:21 :'( Aug 28 18:11:31 hehe Aug 28 18:11:45 sorry Proton23... If i remembered I could have helped a lot of people... Aug 28 18:11:48 cga! have you chosen a new project, or just testing the line between stable OS and unstable? Aug 28 18:12:14 Infoport: i don't get it Aug 28 18:12:23 Zorkman: Bergisch Gladbach borders to Leverkusen AND Köln :) Aug 28 18:12:51 aha :) Aug 28 18:13:15 Infoport: oh.. you mean between oses for the neo Aug 28 18:13:31 Infoport: not yet. still have to multiboot... i've been doing other things Aug 28 18:14:05 cga: yes, testing/playing with apps and OSes is what I've been doing, although I want to find a niche where I can program something useful Aug 28 18:14:05 Infoport: like installing debian sid + kde4 from experimental and some apt-pinning Aug 28 18:14:46 Infoport: anyway i plan to do multiboot and try oses when i finish to repair the damage i did on my server Aug 28 18:14:55 cga: I messed up my boot, and the newer image of OM2007 was much better (even though I had been using daily feed) Aug 28 18:15:03 cga: multiboot is one of the easiest things to do on FR, do it now! :) Aug 28 18:15:21 Zorkman: yes i know but i give priority to the server now Aug 28 18:15:33 i need to get it up before sunday Aug 28 18:15:44 cga, whats wrong with it? Aug 28 18:16:23 phrozen77: i did a real mistake..... i shrunk a lvm volume without shrinking the filesystem before.. Aug 28 18:16:31 :O Aug 28 18:16:42 it's my first server and first time with lvm vserver etc... Aug 28 18:17:04 anyway going to repair that in the week-end Aug 28 18:17:29 i'm even thinking about making it again from scrtach just to fix it in my mind Aug 28 18:17:57 what os? Aug 28 18:17:59 good luck cga! :) Aug 28 18:18:03 debian etch Aug 28 18:18:05 or rather, what distri Aug 28 18:18:08 thanks Zorkman Aug 28 18:18:08 ah ok Aug 28 18:18:14 that should be sort of a quick rebuild Aug 28 18:18:18 debian rulez Aug 28 18:18:21 indeed Aug 28 18:18:38 i have sid + kde4 -t experimental on this very laptop Aug 28 18:19:11 i tought it would have been much unstable but i have to admit is solid and it works pretty smoothly Aug 28 18:21:21 12 Aug 28 18:22:07 typo Aug 28 18:23:03 Is anyone using Debian on FR for their daily phone? Aug 28 18:23:46 * cga plans to boot it from sd card soonish Aug 28 18:26:26 * b0ib0t wants to run Damn Small Linux on freerunner off a SDcard Aug 28 18:27:04 stupid face insists on bleeding when i cut it Aug 28 18:27:50 =/ Aug 28 18:29:38 i love not being a haemophiliac... it makes things so much easier Aug 28 18:35:36 why is this neo upgrade script from qtopia talking about /opt/Nokia/Qtopia...? Aug 28 18:35:58 I guess that's a new change and correct Aug 28 18:36:04 according to CHANGES Aug 28 18:42:25 Infoport: anyway... what did you choose between the oses??? if ever XD Aug 28 18:42:42 | /opt/Nokia/Qtopia sounds expected to me Aug 28 18:42:44 what makes you wonder? Aug 28 18:43:25 mickeyl: i have /opt/Qtopia no Nokia here Aug 28 18:43:38 ah Aug 28 18:43:45 sounds like they need to add branding now Aug 28 18:43:52 gak Aug 28 18:43:55 probably coming from their new owner Aug 28 18:47:10 phrozen77: woooooow... debian is magik!!!! server up!!! Aug 28 18:47:32 phrozen77: and i did *nothing* Aug 28 18:47:46 now checking size and other things just to make sure Aug 28 18:48:29 bricode! Aug 28 18:48:47 bricode: my FreeRunner's out of Canada now Aug 28 18:49:00 tunys, same as mine :) Aug 28 18:49:05 tunys, what's you order id? Aug 28 18:49:20 TAsn: CE527527960CA Aug 28 18:49:25 not track id Aug 28 18:49:29 the one you got from koolu Aug 28 18:49:37 mine is 17540 or something like that. Aug 28 18:49:40 bricode: on the Canada Post website, it says thatXP Aug 28 18:49:43 my freerunner will be to me on monday hopefully ^^ Aug 28 18:49:52 ordered this morning 2 day air Aug 28 18:49:53 Hey =) Aug 28 18:49:57 Let me finish that sentence in a second Aug 28 18:50:01 b0ib0t, grats. Aug 28 18:50:13 TAsn: #15724 Aug 28 18:50:19 cga, heh Aug 28 18:50:37 bricode: it says that Xpressport USA takes "3, 4, and 5 days" Aug 28 18:50:38 so i guess mine was Aug 28 18:50:38 its going to put my whole life in order i think Aug 28 18:50:40 15740 Aug 28 18:50:41 ;) Aug 28 18:50:42 it will complete me Aug 28 18:50:47 bricode: are those options or possibilities? Aug 28 18:50:52 or is it counting up to five? Aug 28 18:50:58 tunys, lol. ;0 Aug 28 18:51:04 b0ib0t, i know what you mean Aug 28 18:51:08 but you are crazy Aug 28 18:51:10 and so i am. Aug 28 18:51:11 ;) Aug 28 18:51:21 if they're options, which one does Koolu usually use, bricode? Aug 28 18:51:24 mickeyl: how's FSO coming? Aug 28 18:51:40 damn im tired. Aug 28 18:51:42 :( Aug 28 18:51:58 http://friendmanagement.com/squeeq/2008/08/26/ihologram-iphone-app-illusion/ Aug 28 18:52:00 im up for more than 36 hrs straight now. Aug 28 18:52:01 nice^ Aug 28 18:52:07 phrozen77, yeah. Aug 28 18:52:14 though that's just a movie Aug 28 18:52:17 i mean Aug 28 18:52:22 it's just like a movie Aug 28 18:52:41 without the move direction of walking it's only a movie. Aug 28 18:52:48 which is still cool. Aug 28 18:53:01 i so wish it was friday Aug 28 18:53:13 =/ Aug 28 18:53:15 b0ib0t, why? Aug 28 18:53:16 doesnt help me Aug 28 18:53:26 my friday is my thursday this week Aug 28 18:53:27 :( Aug 28 18:53:34 ouch. Aug 28 18:53:48 i think i will get mine at about the 15th Aug 28 18:53:50 and Aug 28 18:53:52 which sucks ;( Aug 28 18:53:55 to add insult to the injury Aug 28 18:53:58 well i really am off. Aug 28 18:53:59 my week started on sunday Aug 28 18:54:00 so... Aug 28 18:54:42 phrozen77: that's more injury to injury Aug 28 18:55:16 indeed Aug 28 18:55:17 TAsn: Been a loooong week Aug 28 18:55:18 you got clubbed in the kneecaps, and now the assailant has decided that you really don't need your eyeballs so much anymore. Aug 28 18:55:28 lmoa Aug 28 18:55:35 s/lmoa/lmao/ Aug 28 18:55:36 phrozen77 meant: lmao Aug 28 18:55:54 pjz: pretty well (see ChangeLog) Aug 28 18:55:58 plus its just that much closer to monday ^^ Aug 28 18:56:14 i'd say phase 1 will be completed by the end of September Aug 28 18:56:30 phase 1 being subsystems: ogsmd, oevents, odeviced, ousaged, opreferences Aug 28 18:56:33 ogpr Aug 28 18:56:36 err, ogpsd Aug 28 19:02:22 hello Aug 28 19:05:57 Hi harnir! Aug 28 19:06:24 well, that qtopia binary upgrade script fixed the freezing Aug 28 19:07:31 that iphone hologram thing is pretty neat Aug 28 19:12:45 the one with the cat? Aug 28 19:13:42 the only 2 things that i didnt like about that, were when the cats head would clip with the edge of the screen, and when he actually lifted the iphone... Aug 28 19:13:51 when he lifted it, it didnt seem to react quite enough Aug 28 19:17:45 when will the moko be in the uk Aug 28 19:20:58 anyone have a link to where the commands for installing fixed opkg repo configs for fso are? Aug 28 19:25:43 what is a good signal strenght for GSM reception? Aug 28 19:25:53 (in dbM) Aug 28 19:26:49 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r69efd426b275 10/framework/subsystems/ophoned/ (ophoned.py test.py): ophoned: remove remaining LOG statements. We are now LOG-free Aug 28 19:26:49 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r661f4fdd2a9e 10/ (ChangeLog framework/config.py): remove LOG compatibility support. We are now fully converted to Python Logging. Closes FSO #26 Aug 28 19:28:33 can anyone give me some info on the open moko Aug 28 19:28:58 its an opensource phone Aug 28 19:29:08 even the circuit board and shell are open! Aug 28 19:29:19 they give you the schematics and cad files Aug 28 19:29:26 how functional is it? Aug 28 19:29:38 mickeyl: not that i expect anyone cares, but using an unstable build from a couple days ago, zhone never switches to the ui that lets you answer/hangup/etc a call, sending or receiving Aug 28 19:29:54 i want one Aug 28 19:30:00 i hear the qt version is good enough to be an "every day phone" Aug 28 19:30:00 Cew27: with the right software images, considerably Aug 28 19:30:17 i just bought 2 today Aug 28 19:30:24 i cant wait till i have them Aug 28 19:30:28 AntonTakk: ok, i need to take a look Aug 28 19:30:32 b0ib0t: qt version? i thaught there were only one type Aug 28 19:30:33 i have been busy with low level work Aug 28 19:30:36 and is there any in the uk Aug 28 19:31:08 well, they have 2 flavours of linux for it... one of them uses QT with xserver, and the other has an interface on top of framebuffer Aug 28 19:31:19 i hear the framebuffer one is buggy b/c it is so early in dev Aug 28 19:31:24 b0ib0t: personally, qtopia just bugs the hell out of me Aug 28 19:32:01 b0ib0t: wasn't the framebuffer version there first? Aug 28 19:32:03 well, i'm just rattling off what I read... i have no real experience with the phone itsself. i would consider myself a fairly skillful linux user though Aug 28 19:32:11 b0ib0t: and openmoko ported qtopia to run under X? Aug 28 19:32:19 b0ib0t: and that port is still ongoing? Aug 28 19:32:30 lindi-: qt was ported to x, as i understand it Aug 28 19:32:40 ah ok Aug 28 19:32:42 lindi-: that is what became the ASU Aug 28 19:32:57 b0ib0t: can i buy one now and expect it to be funtional as a phone Aug 28 19:32:58 apparently much of the work was already done at trolltech, but it has appeared to require further work by OM, yes Aug 28 19:33:07 asu = qtopia apps with qt for x Aug 28 19:33:31 Cew27: officially, no, but with the right images, ime, yes Aug 28 19:33:48 AntonTakk: what do you mean Aug 28 19:34:09 Cew27: well, the pre-release asu from 7/15 worked very well for me Aug 28 19:34:27 AntonTakk: what is asu? Aug 28 19:34:45 Cew27: asu is the code name for pre-release 2008.8 Aug 28 19:34:46 i am completely new to the moko i just know its the fossest of all foss phones Aug 28 19:35:02 AntonTakk: if i purchaed one now would it be gtk or qt Aug 28 19:35:06 Cew27: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions Aug 28 19:35:18 Cew27: dunno, but flashing is fairly easy Aug 28 19:35:21 Om 2008.8 is like ASU2 Aug 28 19:35:38 Zorkman: minus reliability, but yes ;) Aug 28 19:36:01 Cew27: why chose one? put 2007.2 for example on the flash (that is the oldest but also the most stable) and put another distribution on the SD, trye them all Aug 28 19:36:02 you all in the us? Aug 28 19:36:08 i am Aug 28 19:36:22 I'm in Europe Aug 28 19:36:39 Zorkman: where Aug 28 19:36:40 Lot of FR are in europe (too bad we don't know any statistics...) Aug 28 19:36:48 Cew27: Belgium Aug 28 19:36:49 i want a moko in the uk Aug 28 19:37:00 but i want it to work as a phone and be stable Aug 28 19:37:02 Zorkman: i just don't see how they say 2007.2 is the most stable, phone-kit is nearly always a defunct process and as such can not use it as a phone Aug 28 19:37:25 AntonTakk: opinions differ... 2008.8 doesn't work as a phone for me... Aug 28 19:37:34 PIN-dialog issues, not being able to call out... Aug 28 19:37:40 for stability you need FSO Aug 28 19:37:51 but there is a stable option Aug 28 19:37:51 from what i hear openmoko needs alot of work Aug 28 19:37:51 but it's still lacking a lot of features Aug 28 19:37:57 I'm looking forward to milestone 3 Aug 28 19:38:02 it has the capability to be a stable every day phone yes? Aug 28 19:38:03 i wouldn't use a released 2008.8 either, some of the daily unstables thou.... :) Aug 28 19:38:39 b0ib0t: ime, with fso milestone 2, yes, if you don't mind minimal functionality phone-wise Aug 28 19:39:02 right now I updated and it seems that 2007.2 doesn't give me sound input/output anymore when calling :( probably something b0rked when upgrading Aug 28 19:39:21 now, qtopia is more complete, but it bugs me to much, to many *stupid* bugs Aug 28 19:39:59 like you can't exit the media player, and if you kill the process, it continues playing the music :) Aug 28 19:40:29 * Cew27 sighs, if it inst stable dont release it as a finsished product, i dont know what moko have done but from what i know it appears that way Aug 28 19:41:16 bah, we knew software was still in development phase when we bought it, I don't complain about software exept when there is working software and they remove it :) Aug 28 19:41:38 Cew27: if you take the time to read it is posted all over that the software is getting there but really isn't quite ready Aug 28 19:41:41 but I do care about the hardware bugs :( that gsm buzz has to go Aug 28 19:41:52 Zorkman: but the phone aspects of it should be absolute top priority Aug 28 19:42:20 Cew27: I know I know... basic phone + suspen/resume that's were all the software effort should go to... Aug 28 19:42:24 Cew27: the use fos ms2, you get simcontacts and can almost always make and receive calls Aug 28 19:42:36 fso* Aug 28 19:43:01 AntonTakk: i dont understand lol Aug 28 19:43:11 Cew27: and if you can't make and receive calls, a reboot fixes it 99.9% of the time Aug 28 19:43:40 my point is when you start a product like this get the platform down, then the phone features like send/recieve calls and sms Aug 28 19:43:44 Yes, the hardware bugs are a problem :-( Aug 28 19:43:46 then go into media player Aug 28 19:43:49 and web browser Aug 28 19:44:14 Cew27: and that (i believe) is what the fso is about Aug 28 19:44:27 AntonTakk: what is fso Aug 28 19:44:41 I'm not sure if they'll ever be able to eliminate the buzzing sound or the echo completely via software.... probably not.... Aug 28 19:44:44 Cew27: one of the 50 bajillion software stacks Aug 28 19:45:20 Cew27: one sec Aug 28 19:45:25 Cew27: you really should browse that distribution page I sent you... there is a menu with all the distributions Aug 28 19:45:50 jucs: I think they can do it for the echo (it worked for me with some alsamixer tweaking) but the buzz... Aug 28 19:46:21 so fso is the phone parts of it Aug 28 19:46:34 Cew27: fso is the future phone parts Aug 28 19:46:34 A friend says it would probably be possible to filter out the buzz frequencies.... but I'm not so sure about that... Aug 28 19:47:32 And first of all, those issues really have to be eliminated for the GTA03... Aug 28 19:47:33 jucs: joerg is on it (and he seems a VERY capabable guy) but even he doesn't have good faith in it it seems... Aug 28 19:47:37 hi .. i just installed asu update on my freerunner. lots of improvments there, but i don't like the keyboard. I realy liked the Multitab board in om2007.2 . So i decided to install the "old" multitab keyboard and disable the new one. worked fine there, but now i not able to type all letters. means only the first one is used, and if i type twice on (example ) 2 i get 'a' instead of 'b' Aug 28 19:47:51 he has a work-around with desoldering things and adding some shielding, but it isn't something we can do Aug 28 19:47:55 does anyone know something about this problem ? Aug 28 19:48:13 RedFlash: no; file a bug report Aug 28 19:48:43 Zorkman: I think I've read about the hardware workarounds; but that's impossible for me... Aug 28 19:49:23 * Cew27 will purchase one immidiately if someine links him to a saleplace in the uk Aug 28 19:49:33 jucs: it's impossible for everyone, even joerg said it was VERY diffucult Aug 28 19:50:03 Cew27: https://www.truebox.co.uk/trueboxportal/index.php?wk=Openmoko Aug 28 19:50:11 https://www.truebox.co.uk/trueboxportal/index.php?wk=Openmoko Aug 28 19:50:14 Ah :-D Aug 28 19:50:16 Faster :-P Aug 28 19:50:20 I win and get the percentage ;-) Aug 28 19:50:36 Yes, I think so :-( Aug 28 19:52:32 openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r194e51a97a45 10/ (3 files in 2 dirs): add numptyphysics (ugly ugly build), an insanely cool crayon game Aug 28 19:52:33 openmoko: 03rwhitby 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * re84c435b8833 10/packages/numptyphysics/numptyphysics_svn.bb: numptyphysics: Add -lX11 to LDOPTS to fix build Aug 28 19:52:33 openmoko: 03koen 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * radcb6969b244 10/packages/numptyphysics/ (3 files in 2 dirs): numptyphysics: add patch to build it with gcc 4.3 Aug 28 19:52:34 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r9cb97f56c64d 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksums] Add numptyphysics_setup.tgz checksums.. Aug 28 19:52:37 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * ra3a55ed1f300 10/packages/hal/hal_0.5.9.bb: [hal] Remove commented out things we have a SCM to recover it Aug 28 19:52:40 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * reed7d28dbc8b 10/packages/hal/ (hal.inc hal_0.5.9.bb): [hal] Move almost everything into the hal.inc file Aug 28 19:52:43 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r7fe654a687fa 10/packages/hal/ (hal-info.inc hal-info_20070618.bb hal-info_20080313.bb): [hal] Create hal-info.inc and share it with the releases Aug 28 19:52:46 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r5853d42a4906 10/ (5 files in 3 dirs): [hal] Add latest hal and hal-info Aug 28 19:52:49 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rc099032cdc39 10/conf/distro/include/preferred-om-2008-versions.inc: [preferred versions] Build hal 0.5.11 and recent hal-info Aug 28 19:52:53 lol: "numptyphysics (ugly ugly build)" Aug 28 19:57:16 whats the debug board Aug 28 19:59:30 Cew27: exaclty what it the name implies :) Aug 28 19:59:52 Cew27: it lets you connect to the phone's serial console and JTAG port, and is required to update the recovery bootloader in NOR flash. Aug 28 20:00:03 Cew27: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debug_Board_v3 Aug 28 20:00:33 why do they charge more for a debug board Aug 28 20:00:46 ?? Aug 28 20:00:48 hardware ain't free. Most people don't need the debug board. Aug 28 20:00:53 they probably charge more for a phone AND a debug board Aug 28 20:01:07 the debug board is certainly cheaper then the phone Aug 28 20:01:31 oh debug board is in the phone? Aug 28 20:01:47 Cew27: really, you need to get used to reading the wiki :) Aug 28 20:01:59 it's not in the phone it's an extra Aug 28 20:02:08 it's...a little PCB with chips on it Aug 28 20:02:18 you can connect the phone to the debugboard Aug 28 20:02:29 if you don't know what it is, you probably don't need it Aug 28 20:02:42 you can devellop and write programs for the phone withouth the board and Aug 28 20:02:53 if you only want to "use" the phone you also don't need it Aug 28 20:03:09 Zorkman: could i use it for bug tracking Aug 28 20:04:32 Cew27: for kernel debugging: yes Aug 28 20:05:07 you can also halt the processor whenever you want Aug 28 20:05:57 Zorkman: well there in the uk in 3 weeks Aug 28 20:06:23 nice Aug 28 20:06:36 (there are also other european distributors if you are interested you can find them on openmoko.com) Aug 28 20:06:58 g2g now, welcome to the community, hope you'll have fun :) Aug 28 20:07:01 openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openmoko.asu.testing * r86f7e966a826 10/ (3 files in 2 dirs): add numptyphysics (ugly ugly build), an insanely cool crayon game Aug 28 20:07:01 openmoko: 03rwhitby 07org.openmoko.asu.testing * rf9108192d50d 10/packages/numptyphysics/numptyphysics_svn.bb: numptyphysics: Add -lX11 to LDOPTS to fix build Aug 28 20:07:02 openmoko: 03koen 07org.openmoko.asu.testing * ra08bdd783428 10/packages/numptyphysics/ (3 files in 2 dirs): numptyphysics: add patch to build it with gcc 4.3 Aug 28 20:07:03 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.testing * ra837f5465961 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksums] Add numptyphysics_setup.tgz checksums.. Aug 28 20:07:06 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.testing * ra46d5a10a6c3 10/packages/hal/hal_0.5.9.bb: [hal] Remove commented out things we have a SCM to recover it Aug 28 20:07:09 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.testing * r789da5442411 10/packages/hal/ (hal.inc hal_0.5.9.bb): [hal] Move almost everything into the hal.inc file Aug 28 20:07:12 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.testing * r7512ba68a584 10/packages/hal/ (hal-info.inc hal-info_20070618.bb hal-info_20080313.bb): [hal] Create hal-info.inc and share it with the releases Aug 28 20:07:15 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.testing * r018b34153134 10/ (5 files in 3 dirs): [hal] Add latest hal and hal-info Aug 28 20:07:18 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.testing * r9a936ae74765 10/conf/distro/include/preferred-om-2008-versions.inc: [preferred versions] Build hal 0.5.11 and recent hal-info Aug 28 20:08:55 hi Aug 28 20:09:09 the wrench of illume-config is missing Aug 28 20:09:27 and i've already deleted ~/.e Aug 28 20:09:42 admiral0: https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1863 Aug 28 20:11:44 AntonTakk: mediaplayer was designed that way. thats not a bug Aug 28 20:13:33 the media player was designed to not be closeable? Aug 28 20:13:49 lol lpotter, you can't be serious :) Aug 28 20:14:31 does the freerunner have gps Aug 28 20:14:37 yes Aug 28 20:14:54 so i can use it as satnav Aug 28 20:15:14 you'll want to pre-download maps, but yeah Aug 28 20:15:56 sweet Aug 28 20:17:46 is there a netstumbler for the FR? Aug 28 20:18:00 can anyone help me with a terminal command? Aug 28 20:18:09 how do I put the output of "logread" in a file? Aug 28 20:18:13 Zorkman, ls! Aug 28 20:18:26 ls is to list the directory, no? Aug 28 20:18:29 uh? commd > file Aug 28 20:18:41 or use >> for appending Aug 28 20:18:46 aha, knew it was something with > but thought it needed more syntax :) Aug 28 20:18:48 Zorkman: usually $COMMAND$ > file.txt Aug 28 20:18:54 command | tee file Aug 28 20:18:58 also works Aug 28 20:19:05 thx Aug 28 20:19:36 depends use: command 2&>1 file for also capturing the stderr Aug 28 20:21:20 how thick is the free runner Aug 28 20:21:59 as thick as my ring finger Aug 28 20:22:20 about 1/4 thick as my... Aug 28 20:22:27 |--------| <-- this thick (not to scale) Aug 28 20:22:51 thick enough, but not to thick Aug 28 20:22:55 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.dev * re27e43ee0f67 10/packages/openmoko-projects/tichy_svn.bb: [tichy] Apply Charlie's change Aug 28 20:22:56 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.dev * rd1f2140223e6 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [tichy] Bump up the revision of tichy to 180 Aug 28 20:22:56 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.dev * r791ce419291a 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-feed.bb: [openmoko-feed] Add tichy to openmoko-feed Aug 28 20:22:59 somewhere in the middle Aug 28 20:22:59 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware Aug 28 20:23:33 Cew27: it's thiker than the iphone for example, but it lies extremely well in your hand and I really like the soft finish Aug 28 20:23:59 AntonTakk: as far as I know, yes Aug 28 20:25:39 lpotter: can you give us a reason? because you have to admit that this does sound VERY crazy without an explanation... Aug 28 20:28:38 Zorkman: crazy wouldn't be my word, but for the sake of hospitality i'll stop there :) Aug 28 20:29:22 don't get me wrong, I don't mean to insult anyone, just pointing out that I don't understand the descision (but maybe I will when I know the reason) Aug 28 20:30:06 at least i think its by design Aug 28 20:30:59 lpotter: I think Openmokos and Qtopias design team eat the same food :o) Aug 28 20:31:13 Zorkman: laced with crack? Aug 28 20:32:24 crack? hell no! it has to be something 100x stonger :) Aug 28 20:32:43 crystal meth? Aug 28 20:34:07 maybe one cut with the other? Aug 28 20:34:33 thats more like it... Aug 28 20:35:04 any of you using a recent image that seems reliable? Aug 28 20:35:29 2007.2's GSM is still constantly re-registering... how the hell is it possible they putting stuff like the "12-hour format clock" on the priority list for 2008.9..... Aug 28 20:35:39 AntonTakk: there is no reliable image :( Aug 28 20:35:41 maybe FSO Aug 28 20:35:47 i'm hoping for mileston3 Aug 28 20:37:18 me too Aug 28 20:37:42 Zorkman: know of a 2007.2 build that would successfully register? Aug 28 20:37:57 yeah, I have a fully upgraded one Aug 28 20:37:59 it registers, Aug 28 20:38:04 but re-registers ever few minutes... Aug 28 20:38:13 can reliably make calls/etc? Aug 28 20:38:18 extremely annoying Aug 28 20:38:27 AntonTakk: not while you are re-registering... Aug 28 20:38:33 it also b0rks suspend Aug 28 20:38:34 well duh Aug 28 20:38:44 everytime you re-register the phone awakens Aug 28 20:38:46 i don't trust suspend anyways Aug 28 20:38:58 if we want some battery life.. Aug 28 20:39:09 yeah, i meant at this point Aug 28 20:39:45 tbh, i do think fso is our best hope, and it is shaping up nicely Aug 28 20:40:05 i just wish I was a better coder so I could make some half-decent apps for it Aug 28 20:40:22 same here... Aug 28 20:40:58 do contacts with evo-data-server back end, a today app that displays upcoming calendar/etc as well as missed calls, sms Aug 28 20:41:18 actually, i kinda like htc's home plugin for win mobile Aug 28 20:41:41 The suspend breaks sound, wlan and so on.... unusable yet :-P Aug 28 20:42:00 Zorkman: which image did you flash 2007.2 from? Aug 28 20:42:06 got a link? Aug 28 20:42:11 Anyway, I hope that'll work soon :-P Aug 28 20:43:30 AntonTakk: long while ago... Aug 28 20:43:43 somewhere in July 20? Aug 28 20:43:44 before buildhost borkage? Aug 28 20:44:00 did it constantly re-register then? Aug 28 20:44:13 yes Aug 28 20:44:34 but I haven't used GSM much because the buzzing sound.. some people won't call me because of this.. Aug 28 20:44:51 i have never had much buzzing, if any Aug 28 20:45:13 tried a grounding strap lately? ;) Aug 28 20:46:19 I never have the buzzing, but people on the other side have... Aug 28 20:47:19 yeah, people i talk to don't seemt o hear it much if at all Aug 28 20:48:13 Cool, I didn't know the NDAd documentation for the GSM chip has leaked out :-D Aug 28 20:48:22 hrm, need to pull the fso ringtone before I flash this Aug 28 20:48:35 cause i *love* the fso ringtone Aug 28 20:48:38 :) Aug 28 20:48:43 AntonTakk: the non-free ringtone? Aug 28 20:49:03 lindi-: dunno? talking about the sid file? Aug 28 20:49:12 AntonTakk: yep Aug 28 20:49:23 i thought it came from the hvsc? Aug 28 20:49:30 and was therefore free to use? Aug 28 20:50:03 AntonTakk: it can't be distributed commercially Aug 28 20:50:16 bluez gives me the blues Aug 28 20:50:54 They changed the API you use to talk to bluetooth keyboards three times. First it was hidd, then a 'input device' d-bus interface, and now they completely scrapped d-bus Aug 28 20:50:59 And it's god knows what now. Aug 28 20:51:27 lindi-: good thing the images are free software ;) Aug 28 20:52:15 except for the sid file, which is kinda the point Aug 28 21:00:20 Lpotter :) Aug 28 21:01:32 good morning hipitihop Aug 28 21:02:00 faern, good morning, how's things in your world ? Aug 28 21:02:01 heh Aug 28 21:02:17 * hipitihop waves good morning to all Aug 28 21:03:08 Hello HippityHop Aug 28 21:05:17 how do you force the pin dialog? Aug 28 21:05:42 :D Aug 28 21:05:45 READ THE WIKI :) Aug 28 21:05:48 * AntonTakk waves his hand slowly at the freerunner "this is a sim card you need a pin for" Aug 28 21:05:49 Dave: playing the game bug-report is FUN! (not!) Aug 28 21:06:03 the wiki says you suck Aug 28 21:06:04 :D Aug 28 21:06:12 All signs point to Yes. Aug 28 21:06:17 i googled and couldn't find it... Aug 28 21:06:27 The source is weak with this one :) Aug 28 21:06:30 just file random bug reports Aug 28 21:06:39 heh Aug 28 21:06:56 ieatlint: 90% chanse it's a valid bug report, even if it is random :) Aug 28 21:06:59 new bug report "Its not working!" Aug 28 21:07:13 new bug report: this is not a valid bug Aug 28 21:08:06 new bug report, question mark. Aug 28 21:08:13 "Phone makes calls when number is dialed" Aug 28 21:08:24 then close the bug report and say "oh whoops, nm" Aug 28 21:08:44 maybe this is some kind of chinese fingertrap Aug 28 21:08:52 the fun is in being stuck and not being able to do anything.. Aug 28 21:09:12 * hipitihop did dave say "the force is weak" ? flashes of star wars somewhere long long ago Aug 28 21:09:15 sounds like you have a girlfriend Aug 28 21:09:21 :D Aug 28 21:09:33 ieatlint, heh heh Aug 28 21:09:42 He's ready for stage two, already! Aug 28 21:10:20 Zorkman, speaking of which, I have a better game for you, if you're bored. Aug 28 21:10:28 gimmegimmegimme ;-) Aug 28 21:10:32 It's called, predict where lazylulu will be next :p Aug 28 21:10:38 :D :D Aug 28 21:10:41 I mean, who is this person, and where the fuck are they going!? Aug 28 21:10:44 didn't check on her today! Aug 28 21:10:51 stupid question but does iwlist scan work atm ? Aug 28 21:10:52 to you!!! Aug 28 21:10:52 One minute they're in one state, the next they're completely in another. Aug 28 21:11:04 Mononoke: YES IT WORKS USE IT WHILE IT LASTS Aug 28 21:11:04 Well, I mean, clearly they are stalking me! Aug 28 21:11:13 Mononoke :D Aug 28 21:11:16 Zorkman: ... Aug 28 21:11:25 Zorkman, kind of like my expertise? :\ Aug 28 21:11:28 Mononoke: i actually thought that as quite funny :( Aug 28 21:11:32 (after lulu assassinates me) Aug 28 21:11:39 s/after/until/ Aug 28 21:11:39 Dave meant: (until lulu assassinates me) Aug 28 21:12:10 Maybe she is using OSM, than we can redraw some road so she can't reach you! Aug 28 21:12:13 that would be a fun game :p Aug 28 21:12:23 we need to get her into an endless loop (are there other?) Aug 28 21:12:59 hahaha Aug 28 21:13:04 cool Aug 28 21:13:07 How do we play? Aug 28 21:13:13 What are the rules? Aug 28 21:13:21 Am I permitted to cheat? >:) Aug 28 21:13:49 Does the winner get to party with lint? :P Aug 28 21:14:09 of course! Aug 28 21:14:26 sec, attaching some files to bug reports: ) Aug 28 21:15:00 haha Aug 28 21:15:06 /dev/urandom Aug 28 21:15:28 cat /dev/urandom > /etc/fstab~ Aug 28 21:15:40 Hey look, openmoko corrupted my partition table :P Aug 28 21:15:41 *cough* Aug 28 21:15:45 * Mononoke hopes that he's asking last stupid question today "is there drawing application for openmoko, something like *erhm* mspaint?" Aug 28 21:16:03 you can draw in xournal Aug 28 21:16:03 ... and I just happen to be submitting it with this bugreport :P Aug 28 21:16:18 was xournal, merged into main yet? Aug 28 21:16:18 and there is another.. mtpaint or something.. there were some screens on scap.linuxtogo.org on that.. Aug 28 21:16:24 I thought xora said he was going to do that. Aug 28 21:16:41 dunno, I installed it from some blogthingy i think Aug 28 21:16:47 -_- Aug 28 21:16:53 whore :p Aug 28 21:17:04 http://uploads.mibbit.com/up/xuo1ErBB.ipk Aug 28 21:17:21 you've just gotta like those names... Aug 28 21:17:29 rebooting Aug 28 21:17:39 dave: do you use GSM in your 2007.2? Aug 28 21:17:46 Hey.... do you think that a Mini-USB-Headset would eliminate echo and gsm interference? Aug 28 21:18:07 gsminterference: no way; echo...dunno Aug 28 21:18:28 gsminteference can be manupilated with a normal headset though Aug 28 21:18:34 Zorkman: But the gsminterference is connected to the audio jack, and I would not use it anymore... Aug 28 21:18:41 (or with a hammer...) Aug 28 21:19:31 dave: someone got an ungly version of xmoto running btw Aug 28 21:19:55 Zorkman yeah Aug 28 21:20:01 xmoto? o_O Aug 28 21:20:03 hah Aug 28 21:20:09 Zorkman, hot Aug 28 21:20:25 all I know is my phone destroys nearby electronics devices occasionally Aug 28 21:20:46 and I should never charge it on the same bus with my work computer :D Aug 28 21:21:03 things have a tendency to explode Aug 28 21:21:12 dave: does it also always reregisters? Aug 28 21:21:18 no Aug 28 21:21:31 It registers quite often, but degregisters frequently :| Aug 28 21:21:46 When you first turn it on, it always registers, great Aug 28 21:22:04 oh and bringing the gsm antenna down then up seems to typically force it into reregistering with the network Aug 28 21:22:07 it's odd though :| Aug 28 21:22:10 and stupid/annoying Aug 28 21:22:30 yeah same here Aug 28 21:22:37 what's weird is that for about the first or second week I had the phone Aug 28 21:22:39 I filed a bug :p (well, i added myself to it :)) Aug 28 21:22:46 using 2007.2 from way back then, it never deregistered Aug 28 21:22:52 in that it was ALWAYS connected Aug 28 21:22:59 and deregistered maybe once every two days Aug 28 21:23:05 Dave, is that gta01 or gta02 Aug 28 21:23:07 but now it's all fucky... so I'm not sure what happened :\ Aug 28 21:23:15 hippityhop, gta02s all the way, baby. Aug 28 21:23:55 Zorkman: Why should the interference also affect digitally connected headsets? (via bluetooth/usb) Aug 28 21:24:44 jucs: the interference is caused/works on a pin of the headset connector Aug 28 21:25:00 Which gets into the audio mixer. Aug 28 21:25:02 Yes, but with no headset connected there shouldn't be a problem? Aug 28 21:25:02 not via usb/bluetooth, but the jack to insert it to Aug 28 21:25:05 By the backdoor. Aug 28 21:25:15 hmm... Aug 28 21:25:30 yes jucs: even withouth headset there is interference (not always and not everyone has it it seems) Aug 28 21:25:33 I mean, there's no interference in handset mode... Aug 28 21:25:36 Zorkman Last Seen: 2008-08-27 22:45 Aug 28 21:25:39 heeheehee :) Aug 28 21:25:42 Hey jucs! Aug 28 21:25:43 jucs: lucky you Aug 28 21:25:44 At least not that bad... Aug 28 21:25:47 Hey Dave! Aug 28 21:26:00 imma look for jucs on the map now, too :) Aug 28 21:26:12 :-D Aug 28 21:27:32 woot Aug 28 21:27:37 i too have a problem with reregistering awaking the phone from suspend Aug 28 21:27:43 Jucs Last Seen: 2008-08-25 20:19 Aug 28 21:27:56 Distance: 6517.005km :\ Aug 28 21:27:58 using om2007.2 with latest opkg updates Aug 28 21:28:00 *lol* Aug 28 21:28:04 looks like I'm not going to walk, anyway :| Aug 28 21:28:13 Dave, sorry, but I'll update me sometime soon :-P Aug 28 21:28:16 netx303: searh the buglist and add it to it Aug 28 21:28:17 :D Aug 28 21:28:22 jucs, will you be any closer? ;) Aug 28 21:28:45 also, anyone having problems with initial registration? Aug 28 21:28:46 netx303: I don't believe that's been fixed yet, sorry. Aug 28 21:28:48 Think so^^ I think the last time I updated I didn't have a fix... Aug 28 21:28:54 I still experience the same thing too. Aug 28 21:28:54 Well, maybe not closer anyway... Aug 28 21:28:57 hiya Dave! I had a problem with taking a long time to register, re-registering, etc, and it went away with a different SIM (except it still frequently re-registers, but quickly) Aug 28 21:29:05 jucs, bah :p Aug 28 21:29:06 when i initially start up, the phone will not auto-register Aug 28 21:29:21 Infoport, bah. Aug 28 21:29:30 netx303: That's strange. Aug 28 21:29:32 netx303: haven't heard that on (not auto-register) PLEASE file a bug Aug 28 21:29:43 Dave I had an AT&T sim that apparently had the contacts printed too close to the edge (and the tab on the holder touched) Aug 28 21:29:46 Yeah, there's all this fucking mystery surrounding SIM compatibility. Aug 28 21:29:54 but if i open libgsmd-tool -m shell, when i give the O command, it gives me "Modem power-up failed: 10" Aug 28 21:29:55 haha Aug 28 21:30:11 Infoport, haha, fun. Aug 28 21:30:25 :) Aug 28 21:30:26 whew Aug 28 21:30:30 school is "fun" Aug 28 21:30:34 I too dislike the loading mechanisms. Aug 28 21:30:38 rooly, uh huh Aug 28 21:30:38 :p Aug 28 21:30:39 using the O command non-deterministically gives the error with probability .9, successful probability .1 Aug 28 21:30:59 Dave well I've read that it was a defective SIM, and it looked true to me-- those 71234G3022 sims were printed right at the edge Aug 28 21:30:59 Zorkman: But the gsm interference problem is connected to the audio device of the freerunner and to the gsm device? I'm confused... Aug 28 21:31:05 Hi it's me again Aug 28 21:31:07 once the O command succeeds, the registration command works correctly Aug 28 21:31:08 netx303: please add that info also to your bug report Aug 28 21:31:22 By completely disable the sound device, how could the interference survive? Aug 28 21:31:27 disabling* Aug 28 21:31:35 Zorkman: ok Aug 28 21:31:41 and not* Aug 28 21:31:49 What do I have to change to emulate another image than the old qtopia one? Aug 28 21:31:56 Dave so mine at least was a badly printed one, not just a flavor of compatibility. But it was working (sometimes* so I didnt figure it out at first Aug 28 21:32:09 yep Aug 28 21:32:15 some people had similar issues Aug 28 21:32:16 Dave: can I force it to reregister? Aug 28 21:32:20 they had to get a new one Aug 28 21:32:37 Zorkman, bring down the gsm antenna, then bring it back up twenty or thirty seconds later maybe? Aug 28 21:32:43 I don't know, it seems to work for me sometimes. Aug 28 21:32:53 jucs: because they apperntly can't physically isolate the audio subsystem Aug 28 21:32:59 oh and not having huge magnets around it seems to help too :) Aug 28 21:33:18 Zorkman: But it's only about the audio signal... Aug 28 21:33:36 Zorkman: If the audio is turned off in alsa mixer, there's absolutly no interference... Aug 28 21:33:42 jucs, were you near München? Aug 28 21:33:49 Dave: Yes Aug 28 21:33:52 :D Aug 28 21:34:13 ok, upgrading 2007.2 from 04/2008 :) Aug 28 21:34:16 Zorkman: Try killing the sound system while you're on call and you'll have silence... Aug 28 21:34:32 or just, /etc/init.d/pulseaudio stop Aug 28 21:34:33 :P Aug 28 21:34:38 Dave: Yes Aug 28 21:34:46 Furthermore, why would you do that? Aug 28 21:34:52 To fuck with people? Aug 28 21:34:58 Evil germans! >:) Aug 28 21:35:04 naughty naughty... Aug 28 21:35:15 Additionally, if the gsm signal itself was interfered, GPRS would never work and you also shouldn't be able to register to the network... Aug 28 21:35:19 jucs: the interference is NOT on my side, the other person hears it Aug 28 21:35:31 cool Aug 28 21:35:37 does anyone know if these registration difficulties exist in OM2008.8? Aug 28 21:35:41 * Dave gives DaMaestro a sandwich Aug 28 21:35:43 Zorkman: Turning off your audio kills the interference on the other side... Aug 28 21:35:47 jucs: I don't understand what you are trying to say... I never used the headset during a call and I've had the interference, so have the openmoko hardware team Aug 28 21:36:08 but turning of audio, that is not a real option when calling, no? Aug 28 21:36:14 jucs, so then it's [the issue] likely located in the audio subsystem. Aug 28 21:36:17 Wonderful. Aug 28 21:36:22 Zorkman, correct. Aug 28 21:36:29 At least you have a good idea of where it exists then. Aug 28 21:36:30 :) Aug 28 21:36:40 hm. Earlier raster told me that part of the reason 1973 users are in the minority is that only ~1000 of them were sold worldwide... about how many freerunners have been sold? does anyone know? Aug 28 21:36:48 jucs: Joerg has already said they found the cause and it's a pin of the headsetplug Aug 28 21:36:53 Zorkman: I'm trying to say that for my opinion the hardware problem is in reading sound data from the sound device, while sending data through gsm works fine... Aug 28 21:37:11 Jucs, what's München like? Is there anything interesting to do there? :) Aug 28 21:37:17 I just got my Phone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Aug 28 21:37:21 jucs: i agree this seems the case, but this doesn't help us does it? Aug 28 21:37:24 johngay: congrats! Aug 28 21:37:25 Zorkman: Yes, but this is argument for me... Aug 28 21:37:38 gogogog johngay!!!!!!!! Aug 28 21:38:05 * hipitihop congratulates johngay Aug 28 21:38:07 Zorkman: It does - if I use a completely external sound device, like an Bluetooth headset, how could there be any interference than? Aug 28 21:38:19 the OM2008.8 web site seems to have lots of scary bugs listed, like "cannot use SMS" and other seemingly major problems Aug 28 21:38:22 Dave: It's a nice city :-P Quite clean^^ Aug 28 21:38:34 are these problems common, or do they affect only a few people? Aug 28 21:38:35 you're right, there probably will be none Aug 28 21:38:37 I imagine the first thing is to fully charge the battery. Aug 28 21:38:43 but I don't want to use it that way... Aug 28 21:38:48 jup Aug 28 21:39:01 use the wallcharger, only 2hr to fully charge it Aug 28 21:39:26 johngay, YEA!!! goodbye frustration of waiting, hello wrestling bits! Aug 28 21:40:00 Zorkman: That's a different problem - for me, talking through a miniUSB-Headset is much better than not talking at all :-P Aug 28 21:40:22 Shame it's too big for the watch pocket on my levi's /-: Aug 28 21:40:37 true jucs: but that way it will still be a non-usable GSM to me Aug 28 21:40:55 Zorkma I think even less than that, maybe 1.5 hours will wallcharger Aug 28 21:40:57 Jucs :) Aug 28 21:40:59 Dave: I think lazy lulu will go back to her lair, near philly, to restock ammo and fuel Aug 28 21:41:05 really? Aug 28 21:41:07 oh snaps Aug 28 21:41:10 I better prepare then! Aug 28 21:41:11 Zorkman: Right, but at the moment I take 2 mobiles with me, that sucks a bit :-p Aug 28 21:41:12 I think 1.2hrs :p Aug 28 21:41:15 :O Aug 28 21:41:19 johngay: that's why one should only buy pants with pockets big enough to fit a small loaf of bread Aug 28 21:41:21 :) Aug 28 21:41:28 Chox: ETA to BBQ? Aug 28 21:41:36 Dave: :-P Aug 28 21:41:38 lol Aug 28 21:42:11 gonna power down phone again and remove sim :( Aug 28 21:42:32 exwternal accessible SIM/SD card would be nice :) Aug 28 21:43:25 Zorkman: Yes, and a reset button would also be fine... Aug 28 21:43:29 I don't mind the SIM being inside, but definitely would appreciate an external SD slot Aug 28 21:43:47 Indeed! Aug 28 21:43:52 Dual external slot loaders! Aug 28 21:43:55 woo Aug 28 21:43:56 http://o-hand.com/ congrats to the open hand folks! Aug 28 21:44:44 and a game to play or something else to do while it is booting :) Aug 28 21:44:59 what about a philosophical statement evertime the phone boots? Aug 28 21:45:04 or a good joke... Aug 28 21:45:14 always a random joke from a text file... i'dd like that Aug 28 21:46:28 Zorkman: Or some story, you'll probably have enough time to read half a boot while booting... Aug 28 21:46:36 :) Aug 28 21:46:38 Are we being existential about the gsm modem now? Aug 28 21:46:40 geeze :p Aug 28 21:46:43 book* Aug 28 21:46:45 :-D Aug 28 21:47:00 haha, I removed my sim, booted the phone, 2007.2 starts up AND..... I RECIEVE AN SMS! Aug 28 21:47:11 IMPOSSIBLE! Aug 28 21:47:26 Zorkman: whut?? Aug 28 21:47:37 maybe it's my moko become sentient :) Aug 28 21:47:41 *loool* Aug 28 21:47:55 sometimes a forced reboot causes my FR to repeat a message as if I hadnt gotten it yet (SMS, missed call,etc) Aug 28 21:47:55 lol, there are TWO unread messages Aug 28 21:48:19 one from my current girfriend and one from my x :-O Aug 28 21:48:23 x=ex Aug 28 21:48:25 My freerunner always keeps repeating the missed calls... Aug 28 21:48:32 maybe the message is "Put the damn SIM back" ;-) Aug 28 21:48:45 :-D Aug 28 21:48:57 no, she hates to call the FR :) Aug 28 21:49:20 I think 1.2hrs :p // Nope, as we switch from CC to CV charging at the end of charge. So it slows down Aug 28 21:49:22 *loool* How strange... Aug 28 21:49:36 Zorkman whew! I thought maybe you were dating the letter X from Reading Rainbow or some other kids show :P Aug 28 21:49:44 All the people I've met love it to call the FR... Aug 28 21:49:47 ah, thanks DocScrutinizer Aug 28 21:49:54 np Aug 28 21:49:59 They always ask if I'm some kind of in war or so... Aug 28 21:50:06 Joerg! Aug 28 21:50:15 in* Aug 28 21:50:39 DocScrutinizer: I want to send you my phone and then you can magically make it better :D Aug 28 21:50:49 Guess now I need to figure out how to actually use this thing (-= Aug 28 21:50:58 everybody :P Aug 28 21:51:12 "and knowing is half the battle..." Aug 28 21:53:03 is illume being mainly developed on projects.openmoko.org? or somewhere else? Aug 28 21:53:57 Zorkman: (GSM_noise issue) the small spring inside the plastic of hs-jack isn't shielded and catches RF. this RF spreads all over the PCB and induces noise. Aug 28 21:54:57 OK, how do I check the battery charge? Aug 28 21:54:59 Zorkman: of course noise is introduced on the analog path somewhere Aug 28 21:55:44 DocScrutinizer: What do you think about a miniUSB/bluetooth headset? Aug 28 21:56:10 WTF is a miniUSB/bluetooth hs? Aug 28 21:56:32 use a normal bt hs and connect it to builtin BT??? Aug 28 21:56:57 :D Aug 28 21:56:59 miniUSB: A headset connected through USB; bluetooth: A headset connected through bluetooth... Aug 28 21:57:05 shuld be pretty easy Aug 28 21:57:16 Those are two completely different things... Aug 28 21:57:22 also should be free of noise Aug 28 21:57:24 NOISES Aug 28 21:57:42 I should go as a freerunner for Halloween. Aug 28 21:57:44 The thing I prefer about the USB thing is that I do not want to charge the bluetooth thing all the time... Aug 28 21:57:50 loooooooooooooooooooool Aug 28 21:57:52 Scare all the young kids. Aug 28 21:58:09 WOOoO, I CAN'T MAKE CALLS, YET I'M A PHONE Aug 28 21:58:11 FEAR ME! Aug 28 21:58:12 can do both, both not prone to GSM-noise issue. It's digital Aug 28 21:58:16 spooky :P Aug 28 21:58:20 (2008-08-28 23:57:22) DocScrutinizer: also should be free of noise <- thanks, that's what I wanted to hear :-D Aug 28 21:58:23 lol @ Dave Aug 28 21:58:30 Dave :-D :-D :-D Aug 28 21:58:54 :) Aug 28 21:59:24 Dave: very good :D Aug 28 21:59:49 jucs: will need hostmode then, but it should work "out of the box" with right alsa driver Aug 28 21:59:59 Nice, DocScrutinizer :-P So this would mean I could actually call with the freerunner, without problems? :-D Aug 28 22:00:37 jucs: not on 2007.2 because there it constantly re-registers :) Aug 28 22:00:52 jucs: dunno. Probably all kinds of issues with control of GSM-modem - depending on deamon/image used Aug 28 22:01:10 BooOoooOooOooOOooo I'm in your airwaves polluting it with interference! Aug 28 22:01:14 Scary! Aug 28 22:01:25 DocScrutinizer: I'm fine with those for now, the only thing that really affects me is the noise-thing^^ Aug 28 22:01:35 And the echo-thing of course^^ Aug 28 22:01:52 Dave, what have you drunken? :-D Aug 28 22:02:18 going to tackle echo a little harder now, as noise is solved (in theory) Aug 28 22:02:46 Dave: get yourself another one of that stuff, so maybe you will get tired Aug 28 22:02:50 noise theory? Aug 28 22:02:55 Docscrutinizer ;) Aug 28 22:03:34 Issue: Solved (in theory) :-D Fine... Aug 28 22:03:47 Aha Aug 28 22:04:20 DocScrutinizer: have you any idea why they are putting things like "12 hour format doesn't work" on the priority list of 2008.9 when suspend/resume or dialing doesn't even work like it should? Aug 28 22:04:36 hahaha Aug 28 22:04:49 different issues? handled by different people? or they're crazy! Aug 28 22:04:57 :-D nope, honestly Aug 28 22:04:59 or they secretly never plan to make it a usable phone! Aug 28 22:05:10 Clearly the openmoko people are crazy! Aug 28 22:05:13 (no offense, Joerg) ;) Aug 28 22:05:15 a while ago lpotter said the qtopia design team intended to make it impossible to close the mediaplayer; are you sure that the design team of Qtopia and openmoko aren't on the same meds? Aug 28 22:05:29 haha Aug 28 22:05:31 dave, you are ABSOLURELY right on this one Aug 28 22:05:47 It's currently impossible to close your primary wireless connection in qtopia Aug 28 22:05:59 Clearly their logic is impaired. Aug 28 22:06:16 well Aug 28 22:06:19 logic? what's that ?? Aug 28 22:06:20 clearly. Aug 28 22:06:24 haha :D Aug 28 22:06:28 Exactly! ;) Aug 28 22:06:36 Zorkman: This media-player-always-running-bug is feature? Gosh -.- Aug 28 22:06:38 hey the wikiman is return Aug 28 22:06:55 is a* Aug 28 22:06:59 engrish? Aug 28 22:07:07 haha, nice Aug 28 22:07:09 yes jucs: AntonTakk: mediaplayer was designed that way. thats not a bug Aug 28 22:07:09 did are Aug 28 22:07:11 all your base are belong to us Aug 28 22:07:13 in this case, an INTENDED, feature Aug 28 22:07:14 Dave: I'm sorry, I know, I always forget have the sentence... Aug 28 22:07:22 jucs is cute :D Aug 28 22:07:33 Zorkman: It's a bug in the design then -.- Aug 28 22:07:40 Dave ;-P Aug 28 22:07:43 i guess if a guys gonna get hakked here is the place Aug 28 22:08:03 * Zorkman is phoning with a working phone, it feels...awkward.. Aug 28 22:08:16 nokia? Aug 28 22:08:21 My the gsm-interference was also design-intented? :-D Aug 28 22:08:25 haha Aug 28 22:08:35 Maybe* Aug 28 22:09:04 This can't be. I think something and write a different one.... Aug 28 22:09:09 (yes nokia, but it's not mine, i currently use a sucky Siemens M55 I could lend ffrom someone and it looks like a pimped car...) Aug 28 22:09:19 need more hardware mfg's Aug 28 22:09:36 Zorkman: :D Aug 28 22:10:12 Zorkman: wait til you see gta03 :-D Aug 28 22:10:23 lol :) Aug 28 22:10:23 do all nokias have the same battery or just some? Aug 28 22:10:29 sneak preview Aug 28 22:10:33 same as moko Aug 28 22:10:51 DocScrutinizer: The only thing that really must not happen is any interference in the gta03 -.- Aug 28 22:11:14 slaxxin: Not all, but some... Aug 28 22:11:21 I'm fighting like a mad dog against it ;-) Aug 28 22:11:25 slaxxin: my Nokia has a BL-4C, which can be used in the FR but is thinner than the Openmoko battery Aug 28 22:11:46 ok Aug 28 22:11:48 DocScrutinizer: Thank you very much :-P This thing really has to improve... Aug 28 22:12:16 mmontour whats the commands to start wifi? Aug 28 22:12:24 even Sean feels embarrased - so probably it will change Aug 28 22:12:36 i did ifconfig usb0 down Aug 28 22:12:48 grrr ... latest 2008.8 continuously locks /usr/lib/opkg/lock Aug 28 22:13:06 0827? Aug 28 22:13:14 thats wat i have Aug 28 22:13:14 slaxxin: why are you asking me? "ifup eth0" works for me (sometimes) but your mileage may vary. Aug 28 22:13:25 DocScrutinizer: Great :-P So, let's not give up hope! Aug 28 22:13:25 sorry Aug 28 22:14:07 better to just ask the question to the whole channel Aug 28 22:14:37 is there a way to stop 'packageitd' grabbing the lock ? Aug 28 22:14:58 no, but you can kill it Aug 28 22:15:17 DocScrutinizer: can I ask you who the design department is? Aug 28 22:15:28 You don't want to know. Aug 28 22:15:31 I didn't really figured that out from all those mails, I must have read over it Aug 28 22:15:35 Unless you want to send them hatemail, like me :) Aug 28 22:15:44 Zorkman, I kill kill it, issue one an opkg command and immediately after it is locked again, have to keep killing inbetween opkg commands Aug 28 22:15:50 neih, I guess they read enough about it on the ML :) Aug 28 22:16:03 Zorkman: I'm not sure. Mybe Sean and a few other people Aug 28 22:16:07 hipitihop: is your installer opened? Aug 28 22:16:10 It's a cabal. Aug 28 22:16:24 * hipitihop checks installer Aug 28 22:16:24 k, thx DocScrutinizer, but kinde weird that you don't know that :p Aug 28 22:16:37 anyhow, you don't need to know that, you're our hw-wizard Aug 28 22:16:43 * Zorkman wonders what level joerg is Aug 28 22:17:26 * hipitihop ducks Zorkmans slap with a wet fish. installer was still open Aug 28 22:17:32 Zorkman: what kind of "levels" would you expect to see in a 30 person core staff team Aug 28 22:17:39 ? Aug 28 22:17:43 is there an estimate for gta03/04 yet? (although I know estimates at this moment are as good as "flip a coin", still i'm curious :)) Aug 28 22:17:56 DocScrutinizer: I expect and hope you are a level 100 hardware wizard Aug 28 22:18:04 with some nasty spells Aug 28 22:18:09 Zorkman: :X mustn't tell Aug 28 22:18:18 haha Aug 28 22:18:24 Like in WoW... if you kill enough interferences you'll get to higher levels... Aug 28 22:18:30 :D Aug 28 22:18:47 I *got* a few nasty ones ;-) Aug 28 22:18:53 Joerg is a master in his own trade; unfortunately, people appear to be ignorant to his suggestions. Aug 28 22:19:09 :-D Aug 28 22:19:12 Dave: na, not allways Aug 28 22:19:14 But hey, that's his job, right? Suggest Aug 28 22:19:16 Doc, True. Aug 28 22:19:24 Zorkman: waiting for the hardware team does not seem to be the problem :P Aug 28 22:19:32 But I've seen the design team ignore a lot of BLATANT suggestions Aug 28 22:19:43 Like, they are stupid for not taking them into consideration. Aug 28 22:19:47 Stupid design team, you fail! Aug 28 22:19:50 The design is fine.... I love it... Aug 28 22:19:53 Make more ports and holes in the case Aug 28 22:19:56 NO IT'S NOT FINE Aug 28 22:20:05 * Dave slaps jucs around a bit with DocScrutinizer Aug 28 22:20:07 The freerunner is acutally really pretty... Aug 28 22:20:14 handwriting recognition might me cool Aug 28 22:20:15 It's ugly. Aug 28 22:20:16 jucs: dave is talking about keyboards being ignored, spanners removed, priorities not on suspend/resume and phone capabilities Aug 28 22:20:22 I don't know what's your problem about that... Aug 28 22:20:23 slaxxin' try matchbox-stroke Aug 28 22:20:27 jucs: not design as in case or material Aug 28 22:20:40 Zorkman, no, that's exactly what I was talking about. Aug 28 22:20:42 jucs: i also like the case design/material, it rocks Aug 28 22:20:43 Hardware Aug 28 22:20:49 It's not good Aug 28 22:20:53 well, could be better Aug 28 22:21:01 though they did what they could with what they had Aug 28 22:21:11 so it's not terrible :) Aug 28 22:21:12 DocScrutinizer: who designed the case? Aug 28 22:21:15 Ah, Zorkman, sorry, I got you wrong... Aug 28 22:21:17 i am just trying to find out what to do with my gta02 as soon as i have a later model... Aug 28 22:21:18 Dave: but at what cost Aug 28 22:21:21 zero Aug 28 22:21:25 they used the gta01 case Aug 28 22:21:28 (-_-); Aug 28 22:21:36 Zorkman: dunno, it existed before I joined! Aug 28 22:21:45 long before Aug 28 22:21:46 Yes, I think they should mainly guarantee phone capabilities.... this really has to work.... Aug 28 22:21:55 use it as a freifunk node, maybe? Aug 28 22:22:08 Doc, are you glad for that? :P Aug 28 22:22:09 Wonka: Internet router? :D Aug 28 22:22:14 Maybe you'd be more insane. Aug 28 22:22:15 Wonka: maybe joerg will find a way to turn it into a transformer Aug 28 22:22:18 Dave: bet Aug 28 22:22:19 or as a dgps fixpoint... Aug 28 22:22:28 and maybe a gta02 and a gta03 can form a helicopter Aug 28 22:22:42 *loool* Aug 28 22:22:42 quadcopter would be cool Aug 28 22:22:55 tbh I would rather have a working phone stack that kicks arse first then we can worry about the hardware later Aug 28 22:23:00 gta02 as a quadcopter controller would be cool too Aug 28 22:23:10 Tig|: here here Aug 28 22:23:18 or hear hear? Aug 28 22:23:29 So, I need to go to bed now! See you guys ;-9 Aug 28 22:23:30 ;-) Aug 28 22:23:31 Wonka: lacks some modes for WIFI chip Aug 28 22:23:33 bye jucs Aug 28 22:23:34 the whole point is that it is open and can run on anything Aug 28 22:23:39 Bye zorkman! Aug 28 22:23:40 By Dave! Aug 28 22:23:48 Farvell Aug 28 22:23:54 See you DocScrutinizer! Aug 28 22:23:55 lala... Aug 28 22:23:57 However^^ Aug 28 22:23:58 DocScrutinizer: remote controlling a quadcopter would work over ad-hoc wlan Aug 28 22:24:00 * Dave waves Aug 28 22:24:05 haha Aug 28 22:24:08 DocScrutinizer: freifunk nodes also only need ad-hoc Aug 28 22:24:10 copters! Aug 28 22:24:12 DocScrutinizer: ad-hoc works Aug 28 22:24:13 ripping the piss out of a couple of reference designs is daft Aug 28 22:24:13 Wonka: actually someone is working on heli control with FR Aug 28 22:24:27 Doc, may as well, right, it's got enough radio in it already ;) Aug 28 22:24:38 Watch out, next thing you know I'll be spying on you! Aug 28 22:24:42 I mean... :x Aug 28 22:24:44 Nevermind ;) Aug 28 22:24:46 maybe when the copter goes faster than light you leave the interference behind.. Aug 28 22:24:53 :) Aug 28 22:25:06 What englightenment is achieved, the body matters not. Aug 28 22:25:07 i would be quite happy with my FR if it worked with my O2 "UMTS/GSM SIM" Aug 28 22:25:22 Wonka: It does with mine^^ Aug 28 22:25:23 Dave: trace down my IP ;-) Aug 28 22:25:28 jucs: O2? Aug 28 22:25:28 :D Aug 28 22:25:35 Cool Aug 28 22:25:36 Yes, O2 Aug 28 22:25:36 Wonka: it works with my SIM but still is unusable as a phone... so don't be so sure you would be happy :p Aug 28 22:25:38 Can I come visit? :P Aug 28 22:26:05 Wonka: what would be handy is a proper set of debug tests for it so it can be fixed Aug 28 22:26:08 Dormitz Aug 28 22:26:46 jucs: i have even put tesafilm on everything metal but the necessary 6 contact plates, the holder has no chance to short anything - i get cme errors 15, 32, and 323 in any quantity i like Aug 28 22:26:50 Dave: visit me? you wouldn't like the men out before my cell Aug 28 22:27:08 and probably they wouldn't like you Aug 28 22:27:24 ;o) Aug 28 22:27:28 jucs: that very SIM works fine in my Siemes S65, my other SIM works fine in the FR... Aug 28 22:27:49 DocScrutinizer :o Aug 28 22:27:52 uh oh Aug 28 22:27:59 people, stop talking abuot insignificant things: WE NEED TO GET THE 12HR FORMAT TO WORK Aug 28 22:28:01 * Dave pictures that starwars bar scene Aug 28 22:28:10 Joerg, I might lose my arm :x Aug 28 22:28:31 Zorkman, Thanks for bringing us back to reality. Aug 28 22:28:46 dunno, at least they have very unconfortable jackets here ;-) Aug 28 22:28:47 Ken! Aug 28 22:29:00 Dave! Aug 28 22:29:01 zorkman, who wants that? :P Aug 28 22:29:10 #searching for a heart of gold # Aug 28 22:29:10 DocScrutinizer: aha, okay :) Aug 28 22:29:17 Ken, what's new? :)) Aug 28 22:29:19 DAve: it's on the fucking priority list of 2008.9 Aug 28 22:29:21 Other than your amazing software ;) Aug 28 22:29:27 Zorkman :P Aug 28 22:30:06 Dave, Nothing new with me. I can't really play with my FR except on weekends. Aug 28 22:30:39 Dave, But thanks very much for the kind remarks. Aug 28 22:30:59 * DocScrutinizer turns around the paper: "the Doctor is away" Aug 28 22:31:04 Ah okay :) Aug 28 22:31:09 Certainly. Aug 28 22:31:14 bye Joerg Aug 28 22:31:15 Later Doc :) Aug 28 22:31:20 good luck hunting interference :) Aug 28 22:31:23 Dpn Aug 28 22:31:29 Don't get beat up by those scary men :P Aug 28 22:33:54 in all the confusion regarding keyboards, how do I get zorkman's keybaord going on the latest 2008.8 Aug 28 22:34:03 zorkman has a keyboard? Aug 28 22:34:07 Unlikely! :D Aug 28 22:34:26 :D Aug 28 22:34:26 He probably stole raster's magnificent work ;p Aug 28 22:34:35 I have a keyboard? Aug 28 22:34:45 * hipitihop nods that's the name he is scrambling for ;-) Aug 28 22:34:51 :P Aug 28 22:34:59 sorry Zorkman, meant raster Aug 28 22:35:07 yeah people often confuse me with a skillful programmer of openmoko Aug 28 22:35:12 haha Aug 28 22:35:13 heh Aug 28 22:35:16 * Dave rolls his eyes Aug 28 22:35:17 (ex-programmer in one day) Aug 28 22:35:31 no Aug 28 22:35:39 ex-ass-slave Aug 28 22:35:42 :p Aug 28 22:35:46 :) Aug 28 22:36:02 hipitihop: what are you running? 2008.8 or 200.8upgraded? Aug 28 22:36:43 200.8 is on the wiki, 2008.8-upgraded: i don't know, we need something called illume-config-illume, but it wasn't in the feeds a few hours ago (yet) Aug 28 22:36:51 Zorkman, http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Om2008.8-update Aug 28 22:36:58 zorkman mailed about that on the ML :) Aug 28 22:39:00 hipitihop: Aug 28 22:39:00 1. opkg install illume-config-illume Aug 28 22:39:00 2. opkg install illume-config Aug 28 22:39:00 3. echo 'E_PROFILE="-profile illume"' > /etc/enlightenment/default_profile Aug 28 22:39:00 4. reboot Aug 28 22:39:01 5. add the export QTOPIA_NO_VIRTUAL_KEYBOARD=1 to the qtopia launch script Aug 28 22:40:06 (change number 4 and 5's position) Aug 28 22:40:35 ok. So I can't access my wireless ATM. Aug 28 22:40:41 get error 2 in 1. Aug 28 22:41:18 does anyone else lose sound after a suspend resume? Aug 28 22:41:21 that's what i said, it isn't available (yet) Aug 28 22:41:32 raster/zorkman said it should become available Aug 28 22:41:40 Toaster`: most poeple do :) Aug 28 22:42:05 johngay: I also can't acces your wireless, Dave, can you do it? Aug 28 22:42:10 Zorkman: heh, well, good to see I'm not alone. I suppose they're working on it so no need to gripe? Aug 28 22:42:38 THEY are working on world domination Aug 28 22:43:17 With my brand new FR. iwlist shows it, but udhcpc fails to connect? Aug 28 22:44:02 Toaster`: you should search the trac... sometimes i assume there is a bug report because it is well known problem, but if everyone thinks that way... :) Aug 28 22:44:18 johngay: did you look at the wiki? Aug 28 22:44:21 Zorkman: true. Aug 28 22:44:24 you could also use mofi, that works for me out of the box Aug 28 22:45:06 That's where I'm looking, but I'm not sure it works out of the box. Aug 28 22:45:09 (even with encryption, i just type in my password and it works) Aug 28 22:46:18 code 1 Aug 28 22:54:22 how does one force the illume keyboard to install rather then the qtopia keyboard? Aug 28 22:55:29 Toaster`: Aug 28 22:55:30 1. opkg install illume-config-illume Aug 28 22:55:30 2. opkg install illume-config Aug 28 22:55:30 3. echo 'E_PROFILE="-profile illume"' > /etc/enlightenment/default_profile Aug 28 22:55:30 4. add the export QTOPIA_NO_VIRTUAL_KEYBOARD=1 to the qtopia launch script Aug 28 22:55:30 5. reboot Aug 28 22:55:39 i have the OM 2008 image and i have also a valid kbd file. I've installed it, but i receive no keyboard Aug 28 22:55:45 but illume-config-illume is not yet available, so in the mean time there is no way i know of Aug 28 22:56:14 if you have 2008.8 and not 2008.8-upgrade it is documented in the wiki Aug 28 22:56:40 ? Aug 28 22:56:43 but you need to export QTOPIA_NO_VIRTUAL_KEYBOARD=1 to the qtopia launch script or else E's keyboard might take over Aug 28 22:57:40 admiral0: there are two releases of 2008.8: in the first one it is possible to change to the full querty keyboard, in the second it isn't YET possible due to that illume-config-illume (unless you build your own image) Aug 28 22:58:27 illume-config-illume is not available, i know.. Aug 28 22:58:44 ahh, thanks guys Aug 28 22:58:49 but why it doesn't work with a valid kbd file? Aug 28 22:59:01 no idea admiral0.... Aug 28 22:59:20 if only the dev's had listened to the hundres of mails about this keyboard... Aug 28 22:59:37 what was last illume that worked with the qwerty? Aug 28 22:59:39 *design team, not devs Aug 28 22:59:57 don't know... I know i was able to modify 2008.8 Aug 28 23:00:11 and I know I fail at doing so on 2008.8-upgrade Aug 28 23:00:12 I really prefer teh illume kbd, hopefully it gets into the repos soon Aug 28 23:00:51 what about the dict? Aug 28 23:01:32 admiral0: https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1864 Aug 28 23:01:45 it was first marked ONCE AGAIN as invalid... Aug 28 23:02:05 Guess I'll quit playin' for a while and let the battery charge. Maybe I'll have found out where to look by then. Aug 28 23:02:24 what are you searching for johngay? Aug 28 23:02:54 btw: http://friendmanagement.com/squeeq/2008/08/26/ihologram-iphone-app-illusion/ looks neat, I want it on my FR :) Aug 28 23:03:19 ah, the wifi thing.. Aug 28 23:03:30 anyway, I need some sleep Aug 28 23:05:24 gnite ZzzZzZzorkman Aug 28 23:11:40 Nite Zorkman. Aug 28 23:13:53 someone have a link to a working epdfviewer package that will run on 2008.8 updated ? Aug 28 23:18:25 the one from testing seems to work Aug 28 23:18:49 question: xterm or openmoko-terminal? Aug 28 23:19:07 admiral0, is that aimed at me ? Aug 28 23:19:09 which is best? Aug 28 23:19:51 Hey all Aug 28 23:20:03 How do you get wifi set up under qtopia? Aug 28 23:20:26 hipitihop:yes Aug 28 23:20:37 TankC: Go to settings => internet Aug 28 23:20:57 I'm using http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Om2008.8-update/ how do I get at the testing feed Aug 28 23:21:00 Ahhh... thank you :) Aug 28 23:22:10 hipitihop: http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/ Aug 28 23:22:14 look inside Aug 28 23:22:23 you'll find everything Aug 28 23:23:32 admiral0, indeed thanks. I assume it is not advisable to add it to opkg config Aug 28 23:24:29 hipitihop: yes. Your Freerunner could explode Aug 28 23:24:46 baaah! Aug 28 23:24:50 hey any OE gurus? Aug 28 23:25:04 no Aug 28 23:25:14 how do i.. force the install order of files in a .bb Aug 28 23:25:28 ie i have data files and i want 1 file install after all others are installed Aug 28 23:26:17 raster: Checked #oe for help? Aug 28 23:27:35 moin raster :-) Aug 28 23:27:41 bah Aug 28 23:27:43 i should Aug 28 23:27:52 abraxa_: tnx Aug 28 23:27:55 DocScrutinizer: mooon! Aug 28 23:33:39 Hey raster, I just got my FR today! Aug 28 23:35:10 johngay: pants off? Aug 28 23:35:33 ??? Aug 28 23:36:03 admiral0, satisfying all the deps is a pain having to download package by package manually. is it possible to add the testing feed into opkg config (not do upgrade) install epdfviewer and then remove the feed ? Aug 28 23:36:28 yes Aug 28 23:36:34 that's the thing i did Aug 28 23:37:04 won't I get conflicts when I do opkg update ? Aug 28 23:37:16 no Aug 28 23:37:21 don't worry Aug 28 23:37:26 DON'T upgrade Aug 28 23:37:43 I've got it charging, but it's plugged in in the kitchen since I've too many things plugged in by my desk. Aug 28 23:38:11 johngay: u have your new toy. time to have fun Aug 28 23:38:13 pants off Aug 28 23:38:14 :) Aug 28 23:39:07 Trying to follow http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_WLAN, iwlist eth0 scan shows my wireless point, but udhcpc fails to connect? Aug 28 23:40:01 And I don't know where to look for the battery level. Aug 28 23:40:01 johngay: you need to associate with it Aug 28 23:40:10 iwconfig eth0 essid Foo Aug 28 23:40:51 why does "iwconfig eth0 essid ANY" not work? Aug 28 23:41:11 i think that's quite nonstandard... Aug 28 23:46:03 admiral0, opkg install running... thanks Aug 28 23:46:25 ;) you're wellcome Aug 28 23:47:20 admiral0, to disable the feed, rather then removing the file, if it is renamed from *.conf to *.disabled will that work and allow me to do upgrade again ? Aug 28 23:47:40 Thanks! That worked. Aug 28 23:50:03 Guess now I need to install ssh on my desktop before I can access my FR )-= Aug 28 23:58:18 Is it safe to just use opkg opdate && opkg upgrade fresh out of the box? Aug 28 23:58:55 hipitihop:i'm not sure Aug 28 23:59:19 you can just comment the lines inside the file Aug 29 00:00:26 Hey! the battery icon just turned green. Guess it's charged now. Aug 29 00:03:57 opkg -test upgrade is only a trial run, right? It seems to be D/Ling a lot of stuff for a dummy run /-: Aug 29 00:04:16 i believe it downloads but only tests the install part Aug 29 00:07:49 OK. Stupid Question time. Is it possible to plug in a USB keyboard AND USB-serial cable at the same time and use both? Aug 29 00:08:46 sweet, the freerunner is chugging through my imap mail Aug 29 00:09:40 that might kill the battery quick Aug 29 00:10:04 hm, it doesn't handle courier folder names too well though Aug 29 00:10:18 for archive.2007 it only shows 2007 Aug 29 00:10:28 INBOX.archive.2007, that is Aug 29 00:12:03 So when I change to a different wireless point, I'll need to find out the essid with iwlist, then set the FR with iwconfig before I start udhcpc Aug 29 00:12:36 johngay: Aug 29 00:12:41 O Aug 29 00:12:50 johngay: of course. how else would it work? Aug 29 00:13:46 hm, doesn't seem to be a way to subscribe only to specific imap folders either Aug 29 00:13:49 Well, everything else just connects? I'm still new to this wireless stuff. Aug 29 00:15:44 yay Aug 29 00:16:05 jonnygay helped me Aug 29 00:16:15 he got the info Aug 29 00:16:25 now i have wifi Aug 29 00:16:47 OK. opkg -test upgrade reports several conflicts. I'm guessing it's not safe to upgrade then? Aug 29 00:17:13 i use yesterdays 2008.8 upgraded Aug 29 00:17:15 admiral0, epdfviewer installed fine thanks. however it seems additional fonts may be needed as I can see the images but no text Aug 29 00:18:09 thanks for all your help mmonture Aug 29 00:18:16 all is good Aug 29 00:18:32 hipitihop: strange... works for me Aug 29 00:18:42 the french are open-source leaders Aug 29 00:20:32 what's slaxxin' yo? Aug 29 00:21:11 admiral0, trying another pdf file maybe something specific to that one... I might see if I can run from terminal to see if it is showing any errors Aug 29 00:21:36 Oh, and Slaxxin, we know what the French are... and they sure aren't leaders. :P Aug 29 00:21:41 Hey Rasterman :) Aug 29 00:21:47 being french is wrong Aug 29 00:22:12 :D Aug 29 00:22:48 Is that the American idea of french or world idea of french? Aug 29 00:23:16 Don't ask Americans :) Aug 29 00:23:34 dont ask me what Aug 29 00:23:44 I try to avoid them when possible (-= Aug 29 00:24:12 try to avoid french or americans? Aug 29 00:24:19 both. Aug 29 00:24:36 Kinda hard to avoid myself though (-= Aug 29 00:24:39 ya, well. there is a reason I moved to australia Aug 29 00:24:40 haha Aug 29 00:24:44 http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/08/28/35NF-open-source-france-lessons_1.html Aug 29 00:24:45 Lpotter, haha Aug 29 00:24:46 i thought it was for work lorn ;) Aug 29 00:24:58 oh ya, that too Aug 29 00:25:01 Lpotter, where's those new images, b? Aug 29 00:25:07 qtopia.net Aug 29 00:25:10 oh crap.. tommorrow i've got to go to work.. 'night everyone Aug 29 00:25:18 Dave: http://qtopia.net/downloads/neo/qtopia-4.3.2-gta02-flash.tgz Aug 29 00:25:19 i guess you missed the announcement? Aug 29 00:25:21 right there is the whole problem with u guys Aug 29 00:25:23 I hope they were upped in the last hour Aug 29 00:25:26 nite, admiral. Aug 29 00:25:28 they weren't there two hours ago Aug 29 00:25:35 gnite admiral0 Aug 29 00:25:47 ya, did them last night.. about 12 hours ago Aug 29 00:26:20 we are told from first grade we are better than those Aug 29 00:26:30 So this isn't a snapshot release? Aug 29 00:26:43 nope. 4.3.2 final release Aug 29 00:27:11 lpotter: images for gta01 as well? Aug 29 00:27:15 seems dhcp still has problems setting up resolv.conf though Aug 29 00:27:18 mwester_: yes Aug 29 00:27:32 :) Cool. I want a working phone again... Aug 29 00:27:36 hey Aug 29 00:27:45 so zhone doesn't currently recieve calls, right? Aug 29 00:27:58 Oh, we heard about your blasphemous media player feature, Mr. Potter. Aug 29 00:28:04 no tmine Aug 29 00:28:07 paroneayea: i havenrt gotten it to Aug 29 00:28:07 my phone just started blasting some commodore 64 music or something, but I couldn't answer it Aug 29 00:28:12 not sure if its a bug or a feature Aug 29 00:28:17 And as much as we roffled, we want to stab whoever thought up that design :) Aug 29 00:28:18 There don't seem to be *any* current images that work correctly right now, paroneayea (other than perhaps the qtopia stuff) Aug 29 00:28:19 raster: are you the primary zhone developer? Aug 29 00:28:20 zhone receives for me on FSO Aug 29 00:28:21 Haha Aug 29 00:28:25 Raster :) Aug 29 00:28:27 hahaha Aug 29 00:28:27 no Aug 29 00:28:33 ah ;) Aug 29 00:28:41 he might be soon! :D Aug 29 00:28:44 Raster, how are you? Aug 29 00:28:48 Mwester *sssH* :P Aug 29 00:28:54 busy.... Aug 29 00:28:57 as usual Aug 29 00:29:00 gd damn Aug 29 00:29:02 more nda's Aug 29 00:29:07 ha Aug 29 00:29:14 shit Aug 29 00:29:17 so who's the current zhone maintainer? Aug 29 00:29:24 raster.. you arent busy till you have kids :) Aug 29 00:29:37 try to get stuff done then! Aug 29 00:30:07 hah! Aug 29 00:30:16 He has... us? Aug 29 00:30:18 :P Aug 29 00:30:29 close enough, right? :P Aug 29 00:30:34 cool! I'm reading www.lwn.net on my FR (-= Aug 29 00:30:39 lpotter: I used to wonder how parents found the patience to read bedtime stories to kids, and all that -- now I know it's in the desperate hope that they'll get some time to themselves after they fall asleep. Aug 29 00:30:42 but hay.. my just about to turn 3 year old knows how to use a mouse, play computer games, surf the net.. and click and drag Aug 29 00:31:12 better watch out then Aug 29 00:31:42 yep Aug 29 00:31:50 they might have your job soon :P Aug 29 00:31:56 phone call with my fiance: Aug 29 00:31:56 'his' 'puter is the minimac too! Aug 29 00:31:58 might make things go faster! Aug 29 00:32:03 heh Aug 29 00:32:04 me: you were the one that called me? Aug 29 00:32:10 aww, no Apple ][e for him? Aug 29 00:32:13 her: yes, why didn't you answer? Aug 29 00:32:15 ;) Aug 29 00:32:30 lpotter: i have these friends though.. always want to catch up for beer Aug 29 00:32:31 :) Aug 29 00:32:31 Dave: naa that was dad's Aug 29 00:32:35 almost like kids Aug 29 00:32:46 heh :P Aug 29 00:32:48 ha Aug 29 00:32:55 me: I can't accept phone calls with this version. The other qtopia version I have could apparently accept them, but this one doesn't. But I'm running it so that I can help make it do all those things and more Aug 29 00:32:55 I know how that is... Aug 29 00:33:00 her: I don't get you :P Aug 29 00:33:15 paroneyea, she'll never understand. Aug 29 00:33:17 haha! Aug 29 00:33:18 :P Aug 29 00:33:37 Let's put it this way, paroneayea, be glad you're not out on the street ;) Aug 29 00:33:52 Dave: I know. She's very, very patient. Aug 29 00:33:59 :D Aug 29 00:34:12 more patient than some of us. Aug 29 00:34:14 ;) Aug 29 00:34:40 I was just informed that someone made a debian installer for the 1973, but didn't have anywhere to host it! Aug 29 00:34:50 heh Aug 29 00:34:51 hopefully he writes back with it attached.... I'll *GLADLY* host it on my site Aug 29 00:35:54 :) Aug 29 00:36:56 Hopefully I can finish this python app this weekend Aug 29 00:37:02 what app is it? Aug 29 00:37:21 paroneayea: which qtopia doesnt let you accept phone calls? Aug 29 00:37:51 lpotter: no no, the qtopia is the one that *did* accept them Aug 29 00:37:56 the FSO build I have doesn't Aug 29 00:38:18 it did shake and play some c64 music... I think it was commando, or maybe arkanoid Aug 29 00:38:54 I think it was c64 music anyway :) Aug 29 00:39:05 arkanoid afaik the default Aug 29 00:39:09 I changed to commando Aug 29 00:39:19 then went back to the gtk images for now Aug 29 00:39:28 before I got my phone, I'd been following the discussions of the various distros with acedemic interest. Now that I've got it, I realise I wasn't half paying enough attention. Aug 29 00:39:31 (commando rocks ;] ) Aug 29 00:39:47 mjr: boy does it ever... one of the best c64 games *evar* Aug 29 00:40:14 'course, when I said "commando rocks" I meant that it's music rocks. But the game was pretty snazzy as well ;) Aug 29 00:40:19 its Aug 29 00:40:25 tru Aug 29 00:40:29 commando-stylin' Aug 29 00:40:32 (stupid english) Aug 29 00:41:49 The new phone comes with 2007.1 right? Aug 29 00:42:16 And raster's image is the best and most useful yea? Aug 29 00:42:25 ahaha Aug 29 00:42:27 no idea Aug 29 00:42:34 but i so need to do an image of my own Aug 29 00:42:35 it's all subjective i guess ;) Aug 29 00:42:39 that was just a snapshot of asu.dev Aug 29 00:42:45 with illume kebd on by default Aug 29 00:43:22 but today i have some focus-not-goingbacktoa windowaftermanysubwindowsetchavebeenocused problem Aug 29 00:45:46 * lpotter thinks qtopia is best and most useful Aug 29 00:46:17 LOL @ raster Aug 29 00:46:26 * raster swears at qtopia - damn stupid focus policies of softmenu windows. Aug 29 00:46:28 But if I just do opkg upgrade, I'll still have 2007.2 right? Aug 29 00:46:44 thems fightin words Aug 29 00:46:49 :) Aug 29 00:46:49 johngay: yes Aug 29 00:46:54 seriously - not qtopia really Aug 29 00:46:56 mroe the x11 port Aug 29 00:47:01 raster: just remember qtopia was not designed for X11 Aug 29 00:47:04 the softmenu says it has a "take focus" policy Aug 29 00:47:11 ya, nor has it been optimized Aug 29 00:47:12 YES Aug 29 00:47:15 * alphabeat backs away Aug 29 00:47:15 and so e goes "well.. u take focus.. i shall.. focus you!" Aug 29 00:47:19 got the 1973 debian script! Aug 29 00:47:26 of course.. the softmenu just ignores the takefocus request Aug 29 00:47:32 but e has no idea it will ignore Aug 29 00:47:47 so it basically is always in the mood for wanting to focus it withint hte focus scheme of the world Aug 29 00:48:00 it really should set the "do not accept focus so bugger off" hint Aug 29 00:48:01 :) Aug 29 00:48:11 And the only way to get rasters far superior image is copy it to SD and then either boot from SD or flash. Aug 29 00:48:38 raster: when are you leaving ? Aug 29 00:48:48 lpotter: i know i know.. i just like to vent. as its that damn softmenu causing me problems today Aug 29 00:48:51 :) Aug 29 00:49:04 CVirus: today i guess.. as my last day is 31st Aug 29 00:49:07 and its a weekend Aug 29 00:49:07 :) Aug 29 00:49:11 then add that hint to seofmenu around x11 define :) Aug 29 00:49:17 raster: are you done with all the related work ? Aug 29 00:49:19 softmenu that is Aug 29 00:49:37 lpotter: should... it'd make my life so muc easier than working around it and guessing that it may not want focus anyway Aug 29 00:49:43 then he going to work for trolltech :) Aug 29 00:49:58 lpotter: but thats only got 1 employee! Aug 29 00:50:00 :) Aug 29 00:50:12 yep he he quitting on the 31st also Aug 29 00:50:13 CVirus: well i have got 1 ticket to try whack off today Aug 29 00:50:24 i'm just working on "most urgent and fixable" bugs Aug 29 00:50:28 raster: are you at the office in .tw ? Aug 29 00:50:34 lpotter: i can replace him! :) Aug 29 00:50:35 hehehe Aug 29 00:50:41 CVirus: no no. in my home office in sydney Aug 29 00:50:42 :) Aug 29 00:50:45 ah Aug 29 00:51:06 i need to find a place to print this feckin nda Aug 29 00:51:08 :) Aug 29 00:51:11 and some dhl pickup spot Aug 29 00:51:16 and hdl package things Aug 29 00:51:19 dhl Aug 29 00:51:27 maybe i should call them/ Aug 29 00:51:28 dohl! Aug 29 00:51:44 Om, get their office entry badge and sim card back Aug 29 00:51:56 iguess that means no spare sim card for testing... Aug 29 00:52:02 so from now on.. testign simcardless Aug 29 00:52:03 :) Aug 29 00:53:06 raster: youcold work for openedhand/intel! :) Aug 29 00:53:12 could, that is Aug 29 00:53:20 could Aug 29 00:53:23 but likely wont Aug 29 00:53:34 ya dont blame you, they use gtk Aug 29 00:53:34 i already have enough interestign leads Aug 29 00:53:52 lpotter: seriously - until arthur in 1t4 - qt wasnt any better Aug 29 00:53:56 it was shoddy-as Aug 29 00:53:58 (imho) Aug 29 00:54:05 but arthur really upped the ante Aug 29 00:54:12 and that has improved qt very much Aug 29 00:54:15 just wait for qt 4.5 Aug 29 00:54:34 doesnt mean i like c++ and am going to jump onit Aug 29 00:54:40 but kudos where kudos is due Aug 29 00:54:41 :) Aug 29 00:54:45 we got tricks up our sleeves Aug 29 00:54:57 c++ is just c with class :) Aug 29 00:55:09 pfffft! Aug 29 00:55:12 haha Aug 29 00:55:19 it's C with an ugly spikey tail! Aug 29 00:55:42 * CVirus will write his own web browser in C++ Aug 29 00:56:21 i was put onto a new chip recently... Aug 29 00:56:25 and man it's.. interesting Aug 29 00:56:36 it could radically change the whole graphics acceleration game Aug 29 00:56:47 if it does what it seems to/claims to Aug 29 00:57:12 raster: I wonder why are they giving you new duties while you're leaving already ! Aug 29 00:57:17 claims are dime a dozen though Aug 29 00:57:29 or so you claim lpotter Aug 29 00:57:33 CVirus: no - this is outside om Aug 29 00:57:38 ah Aug 29 00:57:58 lpotter: indeed.. but - the take is a new one i havent seen before whihc is why it makes sense Aug 29 00:58:06 *IF* they can pull it off in actual silicon Aug 29 00:58:11 will find out really soon though Aug 29 00:58:26 they have a habit of pulling things off and pissing the big boys off as a result Aug 29 00:58:31 it seems from my checking Aug 29 00:59:02 but imagine that its not a gfx chip - just a general co-processor that looks just like ram Aug 29 00:59:11 raster: where else do you work .. may I ask ? Aug 29 00:59:14 so it doesnt replace your gfx chip Aug 29 00:59:17 it completments it Aug 29 00:59:20 FPGA! Aug 29 00:59:22 CVirus: nowhere :) Aug 29 00:59:28 SpeedEvil: ooh much better than an fpga Aug 29 00:59:31 much much much Aug 29 00:59:42 but you might be going down the right side of the mountain there Aug 29 00:59:49 In that it's faster per unit chip area? Aug 29 00:59:51 actually Aug 29 00:59:55 i can talk about some of it Aug 29 00:59:57 patents are public Aug 29 01:00:08 SpeedEvil: its a dram chip --- WITH processors on it Aug 29 01:00:15 not a cpu with sram on it Aug 29 01:00:17 Ah. Aug 29 01:00:23 That old chestnut. Aug 29 01:00:23 so its a simple ram chip construction Aug 29 01:00:31 not high-complexity cpu sonstruction Aug 29 01:00:33 thus cheap Aug 29 01:00:38 low power Aug 29 01:00:44 like 8mw per core Aug 29 01:00:48 or less Aug 29 01:00:57 first production run has 4 cores, 32bits Aug 29 01:01:07 Limited interconnection limits it to only a subset of problems then. Aug 29 01:01:10 they are directly in silicon wired up to 64mb of dram Aug 29 01:01:30 it has no interconnect Aug 29 01:01:37 u solder it on like any other dram chip Aug 29 01:01:45 so u still have a host cpu Aug 29 01:01:49 liek your soc Aug 29 01:01:56 but u slap on this isnead of a regular dram Aug 29 01:02:02 in-chip interconnects Aug 29 01:02:05 or in addition to your rams Aug 29 01:02:22 apparently they have overcome in-chip limits Aug 29 01:02:34 internal bus is like 400mhz, cores @ 500mhz, Aug 29 01:02:41 If it reduces to hardware - great. Aug 29 01:02:46 VERY simple instructionset Aug 29 01:02:52 like much less than your average arm Aug 29 01:03:12 thats how they manage to get it work with with a few thousand transistors only Aug 29 01:03:21 thus the low power Aug 29 01:03:27 I'm blanking on who was trying this in the 80s. Aug 29 01:03:43 so the high clockrate is a bit of a misleading thing as u'll spend more cycles doing the same work due to simpler instructions Aug 29 01:03:54 the problem is actual fabrication Aug 29 01:04:00 running the latest 2008.8 updated, is there a way to force rereading contacts from the sim ? I had another sim in which it read automatically but now only shows contacts from previous sim Aug 29 01:04:05 the dram fabricators are not used to making processors Aug 29 01:04:08 RISC - offset somewhat by fast RAM. Aug 29 01:04:21 SpeedEvil: most thgns do this to an extent Aug 29 01:04:26 l1 cache on your cpu for example Aug 29 01:04:36 its just the same thnig - inverted Aug 29 01:04:44 raster: I know. Aug 29 01:04:55 not a big cpe with ram thrown in for cache (and thus cache being manufactured in a very expensive process) Aug 29 01:05:05 but a cpu manufactured with a cheap process. Aug 29 01:05:09 its interesting anyway Aug 29 01:05:14 *IF* it can be puleld off Aug 29 01:05:22 and apparently first silicon is due soon Aug 29 01:05:23 Yep. Aug 29 01:05:27 as with all things Aug 29 01:05:31 sit and waity Aug 29 01:05:33 see Aug 29 01:05:35 Pulled off at decent yields and power use. Aug 29 01:05:40 if it does what they say - or even close Aug 29 01:05:44 it'd be a damn interesting thing Aug 29 01:05:45 why? Aug 29 01:05:51 they are going to be OPEN Aug 29 01:06:00 ffully open documented instructions, open source sdk Aug 29 01:06:10 (built on existing open compilers) Aug 29 01:06:11 etc. Aug 29 01:06:21 and THAT.. makes it more intetesting that anyone else Aug 29 01:06:22 I mean - if it can be pulled off at decent yields - manufacturing. Aug 29 01:06:30 Not really. Aug 29 01:06:37 *IF* the yields and cost are what they say it will be Aug 29 01:06:45 SpeedEvil: who else has such a thing? Aug 29 01:06:53 other than your dsp's from TI? Aug 29 01:07:05 If the instruction set is not rich enough that it's interestingly fast, then... Aug 29 01:07:10 (in many ways it is a bit of a dsp.. just with lots of ram) Aug 29 01:07:20 SpeedEvil: of course. Aug 29 01:07:20 Sorry - I mean that just being open isn't of itself good enough. Aug 29 01:07:26 that is an issue to overcome Aug 29 01:07:53 And that nobody submarine patents them. Aug 29 01:07:56 but even so - 4 cores at 500mhz with 8mw per core.. is not to be sniffed at Aug 29 01:08:05 even if you need 3x the cycles to get the same stuff one as on your arm Aug 29 01:08:29 the technology is patented Aug 29 01:08:37 I have problems with 8mw per core and RAM use. Aug 29 01:08:37 but they want open development Aug 29 01:08:52 Even internal, it seems a bit light. Aug 29 01:09:04 very light Aug 29 01:09:06 i am skeptical Aug 29 01:09:18 thus want to see real silicon doing anywhere within ballpark Aug 29 01:09:30 Done right, at DRAM densities, that would also possibly be good in microcontroller space. Aug 29 01:09:32 it all depends if it canbe pulled off in silicon Aug 29 01:10:05 * SpeedEvil wants 4M or so linux system in a QFN36. Aug 29 01:11:00 ? Aug 29 01:11:04 oh Aug 29 01:11:11 this is much too fat for microcontroller Aug 29 01:11:14 its 64m of ram Aug 29 01:11:18 i think 3v Aug 29 01:11:24 they say they can go to 1.8v Aug 29 01:12:02 Sure - but is there a fundamental reason you can't slice off 4M. Aug 29 01:12:03 sheesh :p Aug 29 01:12:13 anyway - once i get this nda out i will get the simulator and full spec sheets. Aug 29 01:12:23 i'll see from there - if they can get me real silicon soon... Aug 29 01:12:38 SpeedEvil: sure. just use a subset Aug 29 01:12:43 I'm thinking of sort-of a STM32 - which is $5 and 32 bit/20K/256K flash. but overkill. Aug 29 01:12:43 tho 64m is their low end Aug 29 01:12:53 does anyone of you get a gps fix with 2008? Aug 29 01:12:53 i thnik they intend to be able to go up to 1gb and 64 cores Aug 29 01:13:07 Is that really enough though? :p Aug 29 01:13:08 for me gps worked in 2007 but not in 2008 Aug 29 01:14:05 cool Aug 29 01:14:19 raster: blow away much of the multi-chip embedded market that's on AVR32 and MIPS ATM. Aug 29 01:14:36 psosibly Aug 29 01:14:42 tho again - it relies on a host sopc Aug 29 01:14:45 not intended to replace Aug 29 01:14:47 more complement Aug 29 01:14:51 a bit more like the cell Aug 29 01:14:58 u keep your ppc core Aug 29 01:15:04 but then get an extra co-proc Aug 29 01:15:12 to do lots of heavy-lifting Aug 29 01:15:19 white_gecko, I get a GPS fix with 2008.8 . Aug 29 01:15:24 but it means u can opt for a very simple low-power soc Aug 29 01:15:40 just enough to do the boot and handle scheduling on the co-proc Aug 29 01:16:04 KenYoung: did you install spacial things like gpsd? Aug 29 01:16:08 white_gecko, Are you sure your GPS unit is on when you are trying to get a fix? Aug 29 01:16:25 in setting it is set to on Aug 29 01:16:29 how well does the finger keyboard app for 08.8 work? Aug 29 01:16:37 and location also asks me if i want to switch it on Aug 29 01:17:25 white_gecko, Yes, I installed gpsd. Aug 29 01:17:34 raster: sounds like fun anyway. Who - if you can say? Aug 29 01:18:07 KenYoung: only "opkg install gpsd" or also other packages? Aug 29 01:18:38 white_gecko, Only that package. Aug 29 01:19:03 ok and then you got the fix with the "Location" programm? Aug 29 01:19:43 white_gecko, I used tangogps. Aug 29 01:20:02 white_gecko, So yes, I forgot to mention I installed that too. Aug 29 01:20:07 ok Aug 29 01:20:11 :-) Aug 29 01:20:43 but do you also get a fix with the "Locations" programm? Aug 29 01:21:02 white_gecko, I haven't tried that program. Aug 29 01:21:08 hm Aug 29 01:25:04 I have brought up my eth0 wireless and have got an ip via dhcp 192.168.0.47 however I get "no route to host" from my desktop @ 192.168.0.4 any ideas ? Aug 29 01:25:48 no route to woch host? Aug 29 01:25:55 from the moko? Aug 29 01:26:04 to the FR @ 192.168.0.47 Aug 29 01:26:22 2008? Aug 29 01:26:39 white_gecko, indeed -updated Aug 29 01:27:32 usb0 is still up but that should only cause confusion from the fr out due to gateway afaik Aug 29 01:28:09 SpeedEvil: http://www.venraytechnology.com/ Aug 29 01:28:13 the TOMI stuff Aug 29 01:28:54 hipithop: i just wanted internet on the fr and my eth0 and my usb0 where up Aug 29 01:29:06 so there was no internet Aug 29 01:29:12 i don't know why Aug 29 01:29:30 but as soon as a switched off the wifi the usb0 worked Aug 29 01:29:58 same for internet if you turn off usb0 Aug 29 01:30:04 brb Aug 29 01:30:04 raster:thanks Aug 29 01:30:30 they really shouldn't have used 192.168.xx for the usb networking Aug 29 01:31:02 Well, I've installed the web, gps and media player. Aug 29 01:31:27 I've also changed teh keyboard to matchbox so I can type paths (-= Aug 29 01:32:50 Pabs! :) Aug 29 01:32:57 And yeah, they shouldn't have :p Aug 29 01:33:13 * Dave waves to KenYoung Aug 29 01:33:40 KenYoung: ah i had to edit the /etc/default/gpsd Aug 29 01:35:06 I'm guessing I need to format the SDcard that came with my phone and put a filesystem on it? Aug 29 01:35:11 ram with brains Aug 29 01:35:51 ATM, dmesg only shows Attached scsi removable disk sdc at scsi4, channel 0, id 0, lun 0 Aug 29 01:40:03 :] Aug 29 01:41:26 :o Aug 29 01:41:48 I'm tryin' to get gps working now. Aug 29 01:41:57 So go, make it work. Aug 29 01:42:01 me2 Aug 29 01:42:01 It's not that difficult ;) Aug 29 01:42:05 * white_gecko 2 Aug 29 01:43:26 Except Ive got the SDcard in )-= I was thinking I was OK because I didn't have a SIM yet, but it's the SD card screwing it up nevermind. Aug 29 01:43:47 hm i have also my sd inside Aug 29 01:44:03 but i hava capacity in the sd slot Aug 29 01:44:13 But mine's brand new with the original kernel. Aug 29 01:47:15 How can I install fso-utils on my computer? Aug 29 01:48:44 Err, nevermind. Aug 29 01:48:44 >_> Aug 29 01:50:34 http://scap.linuxtogo.org Aug 29 01:51:11 i guess i need to set the clock Aug 29 01:52:20 OK. I've removed my SD Card, started /etc/init.d/gpsd and I'm running AGPS test, but I'm not getting a fix? Aug 29 01:52:35 johngay: go outside. wait 3 mins. Aug 29 01:53:05 nevermind, just got 41 good fixed and climbing. Aug 29 01:53:20 Infinity =) Aug 29 01:53:25 hey cjb :) Aug 29 01:54:26 Now lets see what tangoGPS looks like (; Aug 29 01:55:22 fso is prettier although 2008.8 updated is working great except for the suspend/locked nosound deal Aug 29 01:55:50 if ifconfig -a shows usb0 through which I am actually ssh'ed in with, why when I try 'ifdown usb0' it claims it is not configured ? Aug 29 01:57:02 * hipitihop is clearly still a linux networking noob, knows enough to get in trouble Aug 29 01:57:14 mee too Aug 29 01:57:21 What's a quick console command that can be used to connect to wifi on Debian? Since iwconfig isn't there. :< Aug 29 01:57:48 there are going to be herds of noobs soon:() Aug 29 01:59:21 Oh wait, figured that much out. However what do I put here: wpa-psk "MyWirelessPassword" If my router doesn't have a password set? Aug 29 02:03:29 Yea! tangoGPS found me (-= Aug 29 02:07:10 how can I be ssh'ed into my neo @ 192.168.0.202 using usb0 but when I do "ifdown usb0" it claims usb0 is not configured Aug 29 02:10:25 maybe try ifconfig usb0 down. will only bring it down though not run down scripts if there's any Aug 29 02:10:44 Infinyte: you don't have a password for your wifi? Aug 29 02:12:05 alphabeat, indeed that worked, so is that the preferred way of bring interfaces up and down ? iow "ifconfig up eth0" Aug 29 02:12:51 i think ifup/ifdown runs some scripts whereas ifconfig * up/down is just like hitting a switch. don't quote me on that though ;) Aug 29 02:13:56 when i "ifup eth0" for wireless it'll run all the stuff in /etc/network/interfaces for wifi (like setting up gateway) but "ifconfig eth0 up" will only activate it superficially Aug 29 02:14:49 alphabeat, undderstand so normally for brining things up that is what you want. Aug 29 02:14:56 yep Aug 29 02:15:56 Ah, no I don't. Aug 29 02:16:00 another general question, everytime I ssh in either because of change of flshed image or usb vs wifi, my ssh session complains about strict checking and I have to go clear my known hosts, is there an easier way ? Aug 29 02:16:48 * hipitihop thinks he's getting ot for the channel Aug 29 02:17:36 Ah, that doesn't work anyways evidently, not without some other stuff installed. Which I can't do without apt-get. >_> So anyone know how to connect to Wifi on Debian on a fresh install? Aug 29 02:17:37 hipitihop: that's not offtopic Aug 29 02:17:43 hipitihop: you should hear me Aug 29 02:17:45 anyway Aug 29 02:18:04 hipitihop: the reason is that every time you reflash your device, your phone creates a new ssh key so that it can "identify" itself Aug 29 02:18:27 that way when it exchanges keys with you to set up the secure connection, your computer can verify, "oh, I know what machine this is" Aug 29 02:18:40 ie, it's there to prevent man in the middle attacks Aug 29 02:19:07 paroneayea, makes sense, however can I get my host end to be more lenient or is that a bad idea Aug 29 02:19:08 hipitihop: potentially, you could prevent this by re-using the old ssh key, but you're probably best just clearing the line from your known hosts Aug 29 02:19:21 hm, there's probably an option... I don't know how though Aug 29 02:20:01 as for being offtopic... I've only been here for two days and I've already proven myself to be much worse than you :D Aug 29 02:20:04 right Dave? Aug 29 02:20:11 paroneayea, I also normally clear all lines in my known hosts using gedit but maybe I can just rm it and it will be recreated Aug 29 02:21:30 hipitihop: you could do that, and it would be recreated, however if you ssh into a lot of places other than just your phone, it's best that you just kill the specific line.. having those lines there helps you make sure you know what other servers you're connecting to Aug 29 02:21:35 hipitihop an easier way is to use 'vi' if you're up for it ;) Aug 29 02:21:35 vi ~/.ssh/known_hosts Aug 29 02:21:35 ESC : Aug 29 02:21:35 dd Aug 29 02:21:35 ESC :wq Aug 29 02:21:55 alphabeat: satan's editor! ;) Aug 29 02:21:57 that makes it only delete the offending line. Aug 29 02:21:59 Strange, restarting X doesn't? I keep getting loads of error messages and have to power off and on again )-: Aug 29 02:22:10 ;) Aug 29 02:23:32 Well, it's way past my bedtime, and I've got to show this off at work in the morning. Aug 29 02:23:45 alphabeat, yes vi is pretty evil but gets things done when really needed. The prtoblem with my known hosts is I can't tell which line relates Aug 29 02:24:12 johncylee, sounds like you've made pretty good progress Aug 29 02:24:17 well ssh should tell you hipitihop. then its a matter of going to that line (:4 for instance) and typing 'dd' which deletes that line Aug 29 02:25:31 It's been fun. Can't wait till I can plug this into the serial port on an IBM server, login with minicom and run diags. Then ask the sys/admin "Can you do that with your crackberry?" Aug 29 02:25:48 alphabeat, indeed Aug 29 02:26:09 * hipitihop acknowledges he once again is tought something new Aug 29 02:26:15 :) Aug 29 02:26:44 What kind of security does wpa-psk call for? WEP? Aug 29 02:26:47 USB webcam + 'motion' + USB rocket launcher. Aug 29 02:26:51 The clear killer-app. Aug 29 02:27:19 Infinyte: can you clarify? Aug 29 02:28:05 SpeedEvil: something like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxBa5bQfTGc Aug 29 02:28:15 * hipitihop waves bye and goes to get some work done Aug 29 02:29:36 Well, per the instructions on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian#WLAN you can set up an automatic connection for Wifi by installing some stuff and then adding some information to the /etc/network/interface script. But I don't know what to put for having no password in: wpa-psk "MyWirelessPassword" So I'm attempting to make my SSID have a password in my router, but there are a variety of different security methods. The main one being Aug 29 02:30:14 well i use WPA (not WPA2) with TKIP and PSK Aug 29 02:31:30 i believe its' the most common Aug 29 02:32:03 Hmm, mine doesn't have TKIP and PSK, it has TKIP and AES. But I'm assuming that'd work too? Aug 29 02:32:44 that'd be wpa2 by the looks of it Aug 29 02:33:14 Well it has a listing for WPA2 also, but that has the same options. Aug 29 02:33:33 alphabeat: aes works for me. (wpa2). im' on debian. works better i think than the stock stuff. Aug 29 02:34:11 Alright, so the "Shared Key" would be what I need to put in the wpa-psk are right? Aug 29 02:34:26 righto. i'd use it but my home AP doesn't support. just a different algorithm i guess Aug 29 02:34:39 Infinyte: yes. give it a go Aug 29 02:34:47 Alrighty then. Aug 29 02:38:11 Bingo Aug 29 02:38:11 :D Aug 29 02:38:15 woot! Aug 29 02:38:15 I <3 you guis. Aug 29 02:38:46 now if you want to use your wireless as a gateway instead of your host computer run 'route del default gw 192.168.0.200' Aug 29 02:38:54 and check with 'route -n' Aug 29 02:39:15 Wasn't usin' the host computer anyways methinks. Considering I couldn't apt-get or anything Aug 29 02:39:41 double check. maybe you hadn't set up the host as a gateway for your neo to use Aug 29 02:40:29 Err wait. Aug 29 02:40:34 What do you mean by a Gateway? Aug 29 02:40:52 your router for instance is a gateway. Aug 29 02:40:56 Rather, a gateway to what? Aug 29 02:41:12 the Internets! think of it as a node along a path Aug 29 02:41:15 Ah Aug 29 02:41:22 Kay you were right then, must have done it on it's own Aug 29 02:41:45 yeah it's set up as default. so when you bring your wireless up you'll have 2 default gateways, which confuses it Aug 29 02:41:56 Ahh, that explains some earlier confusion. Aug 29 02:41:57 >_> Aug 29 02:42:09 Hey, is apt-get upgrade safe on Debian at the moment? Aug 29 02:42:20 works for me :) Aug 29 02:42:22 kk Aug 29 02:42:36 Oh Aug 29 02:42:40 <_< It's fully upgraded. Aug 29 02:42:41 xD Aug 29 02:43:28 next step it to try out xfce if you're so inclined Aug 29 02:43:39 alphabeat: only xfce why not gnome ? Aug 29 02:43:42 (kidding) Aug 29 02:43:47 heh Aug 29 02:43:52 why not kde4.1? Aug 29 02:44:31 actually i'm not sure what the footprint of 4.1 i like. i remember reading an analysis on gnome vs xfce vs kde 3 and seeing some interesting results Aug 29 02:44:38 cuz its not in debian lenny. and its larger than kde 3.5 Aug 29 02:44:51 oh true. was kidding also anyway ;) Aug 29 02:44:52 kde is smaller than gnome normally. Aug 29 02:45:02 yeah that's what it said Aug 29 02:47:01 Yeah I think I'll do that. xfce is awesomez and stuff. According to top I'm already using a lot of my RAM though. :< Aug 29 02:49:41 Oh also, I had installed about 400 megs of swap space via gparted on Ubuntu to my SD card before putting it in the Neo to install debian. But it doesn't say any is available in top. o_O Aug 29 02:50:36 Infinyte: using up your ram in linux isn't bad though. different to windows if that's your norm Aug 29 02:50:57 linux believes that unused ram is wasted ram Aug 29 02:51:04 Ah that's right. Aug 29 02:51:25 Well even so, where's mah swap? :o Aug 29 02:51:26 what does 'free -m' say? Aug 29 02:51:32 Lemme check Aug 29 02:51:37 well... it uses all the ram and we don't really want to use swap. / use a swap file. Aug 29 02:51:53 yep. raster said swap is not worth it on sd card Aug 29 02:52:08 too messy Aug 29 02:52:10 swap: 0 0 and 0 Aug 29 02:52:40 that's ok. i think that's default. that's why i've got anyway. Aug 29 02:52:44 *that's what Aug 29 02:53:12 Does the Debian install possibly over-write whatever you had partitioned? Aug 29 02:53:23 the installer script does yes Aug 29 02:53:31 Oh. >_> Aug 29 02:53:38 heh. anything important on it? Aug 29 02:53:52 swap.. is.. evil! Aug 29 02:53:54 Nope, but I was hoping the swap space would say. Aug 29 02:53:55 (on a phone) Aug 29 02:53:56 :) Aug 29 02:53:56 *stay Aug 29 02:53:57 see i told you Aug 29 02:54:09 ;) Aug 29 02:56:19 mmm any glamo improvements yet / news on that ? Aug 29 02:56:33 i hear glamo is pretty much dead Aug 29 02:56:44 no..... but we need that rofl. Aug 29 02:58:29 * alphabeat waits for the day when compiz runs Aug 29 02:58:56 fsck the glamo Aug 29 02:59:23 fsck the police. fsck fsck fsck the police Aug 29 02:59:55 rooly: what does "dead" mean? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Aug 29 02:59:58 2008