**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Sep 12 02:59:57 2008 Sep 12 03:00:19 cool, sms ? Sep 12 03:00:53 haven't tried yet, apparently it works (as in m2) but has notifications now Sep 12 03:01:20 ok, will flash shrotly thanks Sep 12 03:01:29 shortly also Sep 12 03:03:17 goodnight guys (because we are now sure there are no gals here) Sep 12 03:03:32 :) Sep 12 03:03:35 * cjb sighs. Sep 12 03:08:49 how is FSO milestone 3 ? Sep 12 03:11:18 is Dale Maggee here or someone that knows how to run zenity-gui on ubuntu ? last time I tried I could not use it due to needing sudo etc Sep 12 03:11:34 http://imagebin.ca/view/3rgrGyr.html - my freaky dialer after "opkg install openmoko-dialer2". any ideas? Sep 12 03:12:11 or should i ditch that and use the qtopia one Sep 12 03:12:27 * tim_abell stumbles through the mist Sep 12 03:19:38 hi guys, is there anyway to make the OM 2008.8 working on qemu ? Sep 12 03:22:53 never mind regarding zenity... downloaded latest from http://users.on.net/~antisol/frutil and it works a treat. Flashing M3 now Sep 12 03:24:14 ya, use the qtopia one from qtopia.net. Sep 12 03:31:34 okay, i give up. fat and dirty install it is... Sep 12 03:31:39 ok Sep 12 03:34:11 cjb: no white screen of death ? Sep 12 03:36:39 CVirus: not yet, haven't been using it long Sep 12 03:37:04 cjb: does it resume if you suspend for a couple of minutes ? Sep 12 03:38:12 I assume after FSO is ready ... devs will start rewriting most of the apps and base them on FSO ? Sep 12 03:38:17 i mean the dialer, .. et Sep 12 03:38:19 etc* Sep 12 03:38:50 CVirus: yes Sep 12 03:39:11 which question are you addressing ? Sep 12 03:39:17 resumes Sep 12 03:39:31 cool Sep 12 03:39:52 cjb: any idea how long can the battery last ? Sep 12 03:41:05 nope Sep 12 03:41:14 it hasn't been released for enough hours for me to be able to tell you Sep 12 03:41:34 * cjb suggests that if people are curious about FSO-3 they should just go flash it.. Sep 12 03:42:45 cjb: no FreeRunner yet :-( Sep 12 03:42:48 still saving Sep 12 03:43:55 * pjz is in the process of flashing FSO3 Sep 12 03:44:54 cjb: does it suspend? Sep 12 03:45:04 it does if you press the power button Sep 12 03:45:10 I haven't seen it suspend by itself Sep 12 03:45:17 manual suspend is okay Sep 12 03:45:29 * pjz is used to manually locking he kbd on his phone anyway Sep 12 03:50:09 Is there a general belief that FSO has completely reliable suspend/resume on incoming call etc, or is it still buggy like 2007.2 and 2008.8 ? Sep 12 03:50:57 the kernel is buggy Sep 12 03:51:01 so the distros are buggy. Sep 12 03:51:19 cjb - OK, thanks. That's what I feared. Sep 12 03:51:51 *sigh* I wish I still had a good 2007.2 distro-- once you have to reflash, you can only be updated to the last image and NOT all of the opkg upgrades that happened afterward. :-( Sep 12 03:53:34 Infoport, How recent would the 2007.2 distro have to be for you to consider it good? Sep 12 03:54:38 * pjz boots FSO3, whee! Sep 12 04:02:25 KenYoung well I have a copy from July or sometime, but there were upgrades to be had through opkg...now anyone who had to reflash is back to way before that Sep 12 04:03:14 Infoport, Oh, OK. Now I understand. Sep 12 04:05:52 KenYoung hey you were talking about updates and new features in Orrery-- would those only be in your development code, and not in repos yet? I didnt see new tab options Sep 12 04:10:32 * tim_abell sees first hand the result of not believing the rootfs md5 error before flashing Sep 12 04:12:13 Infoport, If you have the version which shows the constellations in color, that's the most up-to-date released version. I have a new version which I hope to release this weekend, which has new features like the ability to zoom in on portions of the sky tracked out with your finger or stylus, pan with your finger, etc. Sep 12 04:12:42 oops "traced out", not "tracked out". Sep 12 04:13:17 tim did u install fsoIII? Sep 12 04:13:34 before moving to fat &dirty? Sep 12 04:14:02 no, haven't tried it Sep 12 04:14:11 think it's time i went to bed! Sep 12 04:14:19 2 hours isn't really enough sleep Sep 12 04:14:46 tim_abell, You can't go to bed until your phone is fully functional. Sep 12 04:15:00 you got it ;) Sep 12 04:15:56 woo, wireless up Sep 12 04:16:03 i like this fat and dirty Sep 12 04:19:29 hu oh Sep 12 04:19:40 * tim_abell regrests running numpty physics Sep 12 04:19:48 how do i restart a level? Sep 12 04:19:57 r on the keyboard Sep 12 04:20:21 cheers Sep 12 04:22:55 you're doomed now. Sep 12 04:23:46 I showed that on my N800 to my wife last Sunday. I didn't get my N800 back for three days. Sep 12 04:24:07 mwester: same with my 7yr old Sep 12 04:25:54 nuts Sep 12 04:26:01 back in a week... Sep 12 04:26:08 That's gotta be the coolest little application I've seen in years. Brilliant concept - simplicity of gui, so obvious yet so captivating... Sep 12 04:26:13 its too cool Sep 12 04:26:49 so the fat&dirty workg good? Sep 12 04:29:45 well, the game is. didn't get much further... Sep 12 04:29:48 :) Sep 12 04:30:02 all the handy apps seem to have desktop icons Sep 12 04:31:08 mwester: the n800 touchscreen seems much better Sep 12 04:31:12 (than the openmoko's) Sep 12 04:31:58 cjb: I've not tried the om -- but somebody submitted a touchscreen patch that might help. Sep 12 04:32:17 oh, cool. Sep 12 04:33:10 yay, lev 3 Sep 12 04:33:52 * cjb got to level 6-7 and noticed it suddenly getting *really* hard. Sep 12 04:39:21 on what? Sep 12 04:46:02 pjz: how is it so far ? Sep 12 05:20:20 anyone here running FSO M3 ? Sep 12 05:21:09 yep Sep 12 05:26:21 morning Sep 12 05:26:33 moin Sep 12 05:35:42 anyone running fso m3 can tell me if there is a way to write/send sms ? Sep 12 05:37:29 hi there i can't get openmoko-terminal2 to install on 2008.8 .... ah how do i force it .... (error 17 bad sig ...) Sep 12 05:37:47 Phew ;) Sep 12 05:37:57 I just revived my FR's dead battery Sep 12 05:38:30 i have checked the Tomtom car charger specs, it provides 5V at 2000mA Sep 12 05:40:02 anyone ? Sep 12 05:40:31 dbmoodb, there is a force option on opkg Sep 12 05:40:38 really ? i tried... how ? Sep 12 05:44:12 dbmoodb, sorry, there are various -force-* options but does not seem to be any specific for sig Sep 12 05:44:46 yeah i know. and i seem to have some dep hell maybe ? Sep 12 05:45:02 should i remove the angstrong feed ? Sep 12 05:46:29 dbmoodb, sorry I no longer have 2008.8-updated loaded so can't confirm valid feeds or otherwise Sep 12 05:46:45 currently trying fso M3 Sep 12 05:46:48 OH ok. that fixed one of my packages Sep 12 05:50:38 can anyone point me to the correct feeds for FSO M3 , I need to update my /etc/opkg/*.conf files Sep 12 05:59:20 hipitihop: I thought fso3 had the shr feeds preinserted ... Sep 12 06:00:10 rwhitby, doesn't seem so, seems the *.conf files have same as fso-testing | unstable Sep 12 06:00:31 only checked a couple all-conf & arm4 Sep 12 06:00:32 fso-testing is what they should have Sep 12 06:01:26 sorry, they have e.g. http://my-distribution.org/remote-feed//armv4t Sep 12 06:01:55 hipitihop: figured out how to SMS in FSO m3 ? Sep 12 06:02:13 CVirus, no Sep 12 06:02:20 CVirus, you ? Sep 12 06:02:40 no FreeRunner here .. just curious Sep 12 06:04:23 certainly the new illume intergation/gsm registration is way better... coming along nicely Sep 12 06:04:51 http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=specs.git;a=blob_plain;f=html/index.html;hb=HEAD ... why isn't org.freesmartphone.GSM.SMS accessible ? Sep 12 06:05:11 can FSO do SMS ? Sep 12 06:05:36 hipitihop: hmm - I thought mickey|zzZZzz said he's set the feeds to shr/fso-testing Sep 12 06:06:10 rwhitby, clearly not :-( so is that your recommendation ? Sep 12 06:06:13 but you're right - they are not changed Sep 12 06:06:29 let me test it first Sep 12 06:08:56 sed -i -e 's|my-distribution.org/remote-feed/|shr.bearstech.com/fso-testing/ipk|' *.conf Sep 12 06:09:00 oh crap Sep 12 06:09:01 Upgrading frameworkd on root from 0.8.2+gitr0+248637c1264624aa08de40c2bbea96c418e0702e-r0 to 0.8.2+gitr248637c1264624aa08de40c2bbea96c418e0702e-r0... Sep 12 06:09:13 note that the git revision formats don't match Sep 12 06:09:23 (but it's the same git hash) Sep 12 06:09:44 that means that mickey did the golden build differently from how the feeds are built :-( Sep 12 06:10:21 So I can't recommend any feeds for fso3 images. Sep 12 06:10:53 All I can recommend is flashing the fso-testing image (which should be the same as the fso-milestone3, but who knows for sure), and use that feed to update it. Sep 12 06:11:11 can i run FSO on my computer ? Sep 12 06:11:21 rwhitby, testing or unstable ? Sep 12 06:11:30 testing Sep 12 06:11:51 I had unstable until this morning, then flashed to M3 and they are not the same Sep 12 06:11:55 If someone sees mickey|zzZZzz tonight - point the above out to him please. Sep 12 06:12:28 rwhitby, thanks for taking a look Sep 12 06:14:53 CVirus, have another link ? I can't seem to get past the head of this page, I get forbidden on http://docs.freesmartphone.org/org.freesmartphone.GSM.SMS.html Sep 12 06:15:22 why isn't it working ? Sep 12 06:15:32 it is forbidden Sep 12 06:15:40 403 Forbidden - Error lookup file Sep 12 06:15:49 why ? Sep 12 06:15:55 ??? Sep 12 06:16:16 why isn't it accessible ? Sep 12 06:17:17 hm, how can i tell my gta02 to do fastcharge? Sep 12 06:17:30 /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0008/chgmode dies not exist on my hone Sep 12 06:17:32 phone Sep 12 06:17:48 can i run FSO on my computer ? Sep 12 06:19:17 hipitihop: I've sent an email to devel with those opkg upgrade results. Sep 12 06:22:13 rwhitby, thanks Sep 12 06:27:25 Ho do we contact to resolve forbidden for the following link ? http://docs.freesmartphone.org/org.freesmartphone.GSM.SMS.html Sep 12 06:33:07 what does /sys/devices/platform/s3c2440-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/charger_adc tell us? Sep 12 06:33:10 i got a 7 there Sep 12 06:37:03 hipitihop: mickey|zzZZzz ? Sep 12 06:38:19 hipitihop: have you got any clue if i can run FSO on my pc or not ? Sep 12 06:44:38 CVirus, I have no idea, but I did manage to run zhone at one point. Sep 12 06:45:03 hmm Sep 12 06:45:24 I've just tried installing FSO on my 1973 Sep 12 06:45:30 and the sound is all gravely Sep 12 06:45:30 hipitihop: can you help me with that ? Sep 12 06:45:56 it's fine with qtopia... Sep 12 06:46:08 CVirus, obviously anything to do with raw access to gsm/sim/gps etc won't work as the hardware is ot there Sep 12 06:46:20 so does anyone here know which init string Qtopia sends to the modem ? Sep 12 06:46:31 hipitihop: i'm sure Sep 12 06:46:40 or at least where to look for this information ? Sep 12 06:47:46 CVirus, I can't remember which instructions I followed off the wiki to install what I needed on my ubuntu desktop. I'm still working so don't have time now but if you are around later I can try Sep 12 06:48:22 hipitihop: sure .. ping me anytime .. will reply if i'm around Sep 12 06:49:19 calendar app in FSO MS3 doesn't work ? Sep 12 06:50:06 gromez, same here Sep 12 06:50:25 maybe a feature for the next milestone ;) Sep 12 06:51:01 I don't think it will work ... org.freesmartphone.PIM is still under development Sep 12 06:51:02 http://trac.freesmartphone.org/roadmap well, for MS5 Sep 12 06:51:43 CVirus, I followed this to get Zhone on my Ubundu desk. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Zhone Sep 12 06:52:11 I assume after FSO is ready ... devs will start rewriting most of the apps and base them on FSO ? Sep 12 06:52:28 hipitihop: cool .. thanks alot .. will try to adjust accordingly to suit my gentoo Sep 12 06:52:37 but that's just Zhone, obviously many of the deps are sorted so it's a start as for running the entire stack, I don't know Sep 12 06:52:51 how can I write and send an SMS to a person who is not in my addressbook Sep 12 06:52:55 using Zhone Sep 12 06:52:56 ? Sep 12 06:53:47 http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/127 < someone can confirm this bug in FSO MS3 Sep 12 06:53:59 polz: http://docs.freesmartphone.org/org.freesmartphone.GSM.SMS.html .. the page is not working yet Sep 12 06:54:17 and i will reopen it Sep 12 06:55:18 gromez: can you send messages now after you fixed it ? Sep 12 06:55:54 CVirus: if a receive a message, then, the message tool is enabled Sep 12 06:56:14 but if the messagebox is empty, icon is disabled Sep 12 06:56:27 can you send messages with FSO3 ? Sep 12 06:57:08 hum i didn't have time to try it, i will test this week end Sep 12 06:57:18 but reception is ok Sep 12 06:57:34 hmm Sep 12 07:00:18 Guys, does it look like FSO 3 fixes the echo problem for callers? Sep 12 07:04:50 weirdedout: even if it does, it introduces some serious voice distortion on my 1973 Sep 12 07:07:16 bummer, thanks polz. Sep 12 07:10:07 weirdedout: np. Sep 12 07:12:16 good morning Sep 12 07:14:41 morning Sep 12 07:23:07 methril|work, Hopscotch , morning Sep 12 07:33:22 hi Sep 12 07:35:47 I'm hoping someone can help me out: I've just installed FSO milestone 3 but when I do 'opkg update' it tries to get feeds from 'my-distribution.org'. can someone advise what is the correct place to be getting feeds for milestone 3? is 'http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/testing/' safe? or should I be using 'http://shr.bearstech.com/fso-testing/ipk/'? or something else??? Sep 12 07:38:56 AntiSol: see my latest message on the devel mailing list Sep 12 07:39:05 there are *no* compatible fso3 feeds at the moment Sep 12 07:46:26 thanks rod, good thing I didn't just try one of those two then! ;) Sep 12 07:47:05 i think the emphasis should've been on the word "compatible" :P Sep 12 07:47:58 ?? Sep 12 07:48:19 you're saying that some of the stuff on the other feeds would work, in theory? Sep 12 07:48:31 no Sep 12 07:49:08 it's a stupid joke, listen to rwhitby, i just lurk and say stupid things Sep 12 07:49:35 haha ok then... hence me being confused (which is not hard to do!) Sep 12 07:49:36 ;) Sep 12 07:50:35 are there common websites with Qtopia apps? Sep 12 07:50:57 other than from the main feed of course Sep 12 07:51:38 i do not believe there are other sources Sep 12 07:51:59 any idea when fso3 compatible feeds will appear? Sep 12 07:52:07 i'm not sure i've met anyone not officially involved with the qtopia project who writes apps for qtopia Sep 12 07:52:12 haha I was just going to ask that Sep 12 07:55:06 beer good Sep 12 07:55:40 free beer better Sep 12 07:55:59 ronny: depends on mickey|mdd08's response to my email on the devel list Sep 12 07:56:15 free beer is cheap beer... it is not better Sep 12 07:56:22 <|FiLiP|> Infoport: you mean like http://qt-apps.org/ ? Sep 12 07:56:34 free good beer then Sep 12 07:57:25 AntiSol, i'll give you a keg of beer if you can go a normal day without using any conjugation of the word "to be" Sep 12 07:57:46 haha Sep 12 07:57:55 free beer == good beer Sep 12 07:58:14 last time i got free beer, it was bud light... i rest my case. Sep 12 07:58:48 doesn't matter, it was free Sep 12 07:58:53 my last free beer was kölsch Sep 12 07:58:56 not even better Sep 12 07:59:06 and not really beer Sep 12 07:59:33 eeeew bud light Sep 12 07:59:38 i stand corrected Sep 12 08:00:29 lol Sep 12 08:00:42 playya, and where are you from? düsseldorf? Sep 12 08:01:47 born in gelsenkirchen, living in villingen, studying in offenburg Sep 12 08:02:03 i have two friends in gelsenkirchen Sep 12 08:02:10 they have similar attitudes :P Sep 12 08:02:16 |FiLiP| thanks! I'll check out some of the apps there! Sep 12 08:02:21 i prefer rothaus Sep 12 08:02:31 i wish i cold get altbier here :( Sep 12 08:03:53 i don't like altbier too Sep 12 08:04:23 you must be an outcast Sep 12 08:04:53 i prefer pils and weizen Sep 12 08:05:20 well, that covers most of the german beers, so you're set Sep 12 08:05:56 I'm a rothaus fan for at least 10 years Sep 12 08:27:37 Does 2008.8-updated uses FSO framework for core phone/sms and system events ? Sep 12 08:28:14 hipitihop: not that I am aware, I did not think they are using anything from the framework yet Sep 12 08:28:37 as I don't think any of the qtopia stuff can speak framework Sep 12 08:30:27 Tig|, ah ... I must be preempting things. I certainly feel FSO is the future in regards to a consistent framework Sep 12 08:31:07 What files do you need from download server to properly flash to FSOm3? Sep 12 08:31:22 yeah FSO defiantly feels like a saner way to do things :) Sep 12 08:31:22 Tigl, is it the only stack which currently uses dbus or do most apps do so ? except qtopia Sep 12 08:31:54 afaik it is the only stack to make everything talk through dbus Sep 12 08:32:13 I'm just trying to gestimate speed of progress (polish and usability) once fso framework has all issues resolved and is stable Sep 12 08:32:55 what is the difference between the bzipped and the summary version of the rootfs? Sep 12 08:33:00 prjktdtnt: download the uImage and openmoko root fs for your phone from : http://downloads.openmoko.org/framework/milestone3/ Sep 12 08:33:12 you want the summary version to flash Sep 12 08:33:14 ok Sep 12 08:33:27 thanks Tig| Sep 12 08:33:41 make sure you grab the gta02 files if you have a freerunner! Sep 12 08:33:54 Tig| double checked that when I downloaded Sep 12 08:33:57 bzipped files are for the guys who do dual boot w/ sd Sep 12 08:33:59 thanks for the reminder :) Sep 12 08:34:03 or multi-boot Sep 12 08:34:05 iow, anything that needs to interact with system events etc would need to talk dbus, however general linux apps should still run on top of fso due to x11 and other UI farmeworks being present, correct ? Sep 12 08:34:06 mickey|mdd08 thanks :) Sep 12 08:34:26 hipitihop: yep :) Sep 12 08:34:31 and do I need the modules or is that only if i'm using the bzipped Sep 12 08:34:32 ? Sep 12 08:34:45 no you don't need the modules file :) Sep 12 08:34:51 awesome thanks :) Sep 12 08:35:03 no problem :) Sep 12 08:35:05 rwhitby: bummer Sep 12 08:35:06 shoragan: ping? Sep 12 08:35:12 now FSO is supposed to become the base for the main OM distros eventually correct? Sep 12 08:35:24 prjktdtnt: no Sep 12 08:35:41 prjktdtnt: it is supposed to merge with 2008 Sep 12 08:35:42 depends on what you mean w/ FSO Sep 12 08:35:49 mickey|mdd08, is that bummer in regards to M3 feeds ? Sep 12 08:35:57 ya Sep 12 08:36:11 yip, sorry my fault discovering that ;-) Sep 12 08:36:12 most unfortunate Sep 12 08:36:20 nah, thanks for finding Sep 12 08:36:21 mickey|mdd08, pong Sep 12 08:36:29 charlie137: ok so that will be the new back-end for OM distros then and the current 2008+ will be the continued front-end Sep 12 08:36:46 shoragan: which bitbake version did you use for the build? we have fscked up the git revs Sep 12 08:36:51 ahrg, i probably borked the feed config Sep 12 08:36:53 1.8.10 Sep 12 08:36:58 last upstream release Sep 12 08:37:02 prjktdtnt: well, the plan is to use the framework from FSO Sep 12 08:37:11 :/ Sep 12 08:37:22 mickey|mdd08: how are the plans for fso3 feeds ? Sep 12 08:37:24 charlie137: ok, thanks for the info :) Sep 12 08:37:34 prjktdtnt: so if you consider that the framework _is_ FSO, then we use FSO yes Sep 12 08:37:34 shoragan: i have been building w/ 1.8.x head Sep 12 08:37:41 ah Sep 12 08:37:52 i didn't kown that Sep 12 08:37:54 ronny: no plans from me, to be honest Sep 12 08:37:58 doing feeds is out of scope for my team Sep 12 08:38:00 ahoi Sep 12 08:38:15 hmmk Sep 12 08:38:16 Still the question that remain is : do we keep Qtopia apps in the future ? Sep 12 08:38:31 I am still wondering about this point... Sep 12 08:38:35 mickey|mdd08: btw, why the heck this utterly painfull ringtone? Sep 12 08:38:38 everyone is wondering :) Sep 12 08:38:55 ronny: it's a classy ringtone and exposes that we can play all kind of formats Sep 12 08:38:56 mickey: yes I guess so :) Sep 12 08:39:00 .sid in that caes Sep 12 08:39:01 case Sep 12 08:39:20 .sid? Sep 12 08:39:31 ya Sep 12 08:39:40 google for it :) Sep 12 08:39:41 oO Sep 12 08:39:44 like i said, it's a classic Sep 12 08:39:49 ~google sid Sep 12 08:39:56 why the heck does it matter to have c64 music? Sep 12 08:40:00 * mickey|mdd08 looks at apt Sep 12 08:40:12 if you ask that question, the freerunner is the wrong device for you Sep 12 08:40:14 in regards to qtopia the tensions is speed to functional < ---- > consistent integration Sep 12 08:40:16 it's about freedom Sep 12 08:40:31 ronny: because sid tones are teh *AWESOME*!!! Sep 12 08:40:41 it's about things we can do no one else can do Sep 12 08:40:55 although I'd have picked something other than the arkanoid music. R-type is the best IMHO Sep 12 08:40:56 mickey|mdd08: freedom is pretty usefull when you still lack limbs to actually use it Sep 12 08:41:26 mickey|mdd08: wasn't the ringtone non-free? ;)) Sep 12 08:41:26 * raster can lick his nose with his tongue... does that count? Sep 12 08:41:42 * hipitihop suggests that longterm qtopia apps will struggle to look well intergated with the rest of the ui in fso Sep 12 08:41:46 only problem with sids is they make me not answer the phone, because I'm too busy boogying to the awesome tune! Sep 12 08:41:50 lindi-: free for non-commercial use... Sep 12 08:42:04 mickey|mdd08: indeed Sep 12 08:42:56 well you can pretty much guarantee that no-one else in the room will have the same ringtone (linux expos don't count) :) Sep 12 08:42:57 hmm, why cant you guys defer all the toy factors till basic things work Sep 12 08:43:20 mickey: is that confirmed? that sids are free? or are they just considered abandonware? I'd imagine there would have had to be some kind of ruling for the HVSC to exist... Sep 12 08:43:34 ronny: basic things work fine in FSO Sep 12 08:43:48 ronny: and I'm working on zhone in my free time Sep 12 08:43:52 so I do whatever i want :D Sep 12 08:44:21 and actually .sid demonstrates ring tones using the gstreamer engine in the Openmoko framework Sep 12 08:44:25 (just for the records) Sep 12 08:45:54 I'm flashing FSO right now, waiting to see what it comes out looking like Sep 12 08:46:07 AntiSol: well, I've read all the info about HVSC and they have gone through hoops to check whether it's legal for them to distribute that stuff or not Sep 12 08:46:43 AntiSol: it is probably legal to distribute those non-commercially yes but since that doesn't meet DFSG at least debian will use different ringtone Sep 12 08:47:03 yeah I'm just reading the copyright notice at http://www.hvsc.c64.org/Info/index.html Sep 12 08:47:19 mickey|mdd08: why isn't this accessible http://docs.freesmartphone.org/org.freesmartphone.GSM.SMS.html Sep 12 08:47:37 CVirus: it's empty Sep 12 08:47:47 all SMS handling is going via .SIM until we have PIM Sep 12 08:47:49 I'd expect it's in the 'abandonware' category then for non-commercial use Sep 12 08:48:10 mickey|mdd08: no docs for now then ? Sep 12 08:48:11 mickey|mdd08: what are the plans for syncing contacts/calendar entries/messags to other devices Sep 12 08:48:38 CVirus: SMS is empty and not needed atm. Sep 12 08:48:44 CVirus: check .SIM for docs on how to send SMS Sep 12 08:48:49 AntiSol: but note that selling phones does not count as non-commercial use :) Sep 12 08:48:57 mickey|mdd08: cool .. thanks :-) Sep 12 08:49:09 does anyone know where SHR can be downloaded and how well it's working? Sep 12 08:49:14 ronny: for the framework? we're investigating our new PIM framework Sep 12 08:49:22 yeah but they're selling the phone, not the software... nice little loophole there... ;) Sep 12 08:49:27 ronny: for the other distros, i don#t know atm. Sep 12 08:49:44 mickey|mdd08: will that hit milestone4? Sep 12 08:49:45 AntiSol: but they are going to include the software in the phone Sep 12 08:49:46 AntiSol: well, you would certainly not be allowed to _ship_ fso on a FR Sep 12 08:50:10 ronny: first bits yes, ms4 is about gsoc integration and PIM was one of the gsoc projects Sep 12 08:50:46 although syncing as you know is a complex topic Sep 12 08:50:54 and framework is not about apps Sep 12 08:50:56 good point. so that means it'll change in future then I guess. meh, doesn't bother me, the ability to play sids is what's really important ;) Sep 12 08:51:01 so i have no idea when apps will appear that can use that Sep 12 08:51:11 AntiSol: yep :) Sep 12 08:51:30 * mickey|mdd08 mentions he's IRCing using his FreeRunner GPRS Sep 12 08:52:00 mickey: nice! Sep 12 08:52:06 mickey|mdd08: well, right now i got 2 main issues with my freerunner, 1. battery seems to go empty damn fast and 2. cant sync stuff with my pc Sep 12 08:52:17 small text though? Sep 12 08:52:31 ronny: what do you want to sync? contacts? Sep 12 08:52:31 ronny: FSO 3 ? Sep 12 08:52:34 AntiSol: no, i'm just abusing the FR's gprs Sep 12 08:52:38 i have a laptop here Sep 12 08:52:44 CVirus: yeah Sep 12 08:52:48 i couldn't type that fast otherwise ;) Sep 12 08:52:56 oic, a gateway... hehehe Sep 12 08:52:56 ronny: how long does the battery stay alive ? Sep 12 08:52:59 ronny: battery is ok for me w/ suspend Sep 12 08:53:07 CVirus: few hours Sep 12 08:53:26 others reported 24 hours Sep 12 08:53:37 2 days should be ok Sep 12 08:53:41 (on gta02) Sep 12 08:54:02 with the occasional call Sep 12 08:55:12 is there a way to get contacts into fso3? even if it's putting them on the sim? Sep 12 08:55:13 mickey|mdd08: I assume after FSO is ready ... devs will start rewriting most of the apps and base them on FSO ? like the dailer, calender, ... etc Sep 12 08:55:39 CVirus: i assume the same. i don't _know_ though Sep 12 08:56:04 i'll probably know more after my next .tw trip Sep 12 08:56:12 also, when composing a text message in fso3 i only seem to be able to send to an existing contact, i can't just type the number manually... am i missing something? Sep 12 08:56:33 AntiSol: http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=specs.git;a=blob_plain;f=html/org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.html;hb=HEAD#RetrievePhonebook Sep 12 08:56:40 AntiSol: no, that's because we had not enough time to do more Sep 12 08:56:48 patches appreciated :) Sep 12 08:57:11 I would love to if I could code more than a bash script! ;) Sep 12 08:57:21 heh, python is even simpler than bash Sep 12 08:57:30 so that's no excuse :) Sep 12 08:57:37 hmm Sep 12 08:57:42 mickey|mdd08: I don't think it's even that important to have this in zhone Sep 12 08:57:53 zhone is just for testing the framework as far as i can understand Sep 12 08:58:04 hmm Sep 12 08:58:20 yeah I've been looking into python a bit, and I might have to start messing about with it soon. and submit highly amateurish patches... ;) Sep 12 08:58:35 CVirus: yeah Sep 12 08:58:40 AntiSol: cool! Sep 12 08:58:58 CVirus: i'd wish we had a definite set of apps basing on FSO, but alas we don't have Sep 12 08:59:02 one step after another Sep 12 08:59:11 one step after another :-) Sep 12 08:59:14 getting the framework solid is the first step Sep 12 08:59:24 I highly appreciate that Sep 12 08:59:34 devs need a solid framework :-) Sep 12 08:59:42 it does look very nice and easy. I'm a master VB/Delphi coder in that other, evil world, and I should be able to move to python pretty easily from the looks of it Sep 12 08:59:49 ya, most developers do. endusers don't understand though and it looks like too many endusers bought FreeRunners Sep 12 09:00:17 mickey|mdd08: we shouldn't care about those in the mean time i guess Sep 12 09:00:33 yeah Sep 12 09:00:38 there _will_ be apps Sep 12 09:00:41 mickey|mdd08: is FSO a paid OM work .. may I ask ? Sep 12 09:00:51 mickey|mdd08: I mean do they pay you to work on it ? Sep 12 09:01:07 or it is your own voluntary work ? Sep 12 09:01:14 mickey|mdd08: the freerunner was kinda hyped wrong, i really had the impression it was made for enduseres Sep 12 09:01:39 CVirus: it started as voluntary, but then Om realized (finally) that they need it. it's now 80% funded by Om Sep 12 09:01:50 interesting Sep 12 09:02:05 ronny: yeah, marketing is to blame here. I always said it's not a consumer device yet to anyone who asked Sep 12 09:02:20 did OM even start marketing yet ! Sep 12 09:02:26 better late than never Sep 12 09:02:26 :) Sep 12 09:02:27 unfortunately yes Sep 12 09:02:28 *cough* Sep 12 09:02:31 well, im a hacker, so its not that much of an issue Sep 12 09:02:38 * mickey|mdd08 nods to raster Sep 12 09:02:46 ronny: agreed, the marketing stuff said that it was a consumer-grade device, but it's not...yet... it will be though, and by that time the guys like you and me who stuck with it will have the coolest, most customized awesome phones on the planet... Sep 12 09:02:52 hi kids Sep 12 09:03:12 hardware is _almost_ consumer grade Sep 12 09:03:13 expect for the fact that all apps i hack aint suitable for phones Sep 12 09:03:15 but software is far from it Sep 12 09:03:24 mickey|mdd08: btw: http://www.rasterman.com/files/illume-new-01.png Sep 12 09:03:26 mickey|mdd08: why only allmost? Sep 12 09:03:27 mickey|mdd08: btw: http://www.rasterman.com/files/illume-new-02.png Sep 12 09:03:29 mickey|mdd08: btw: http://www.rasterman.com/files/illume-new-03.png Sep 12 09:03:32 Is there anything wrong with beginning to develop apps for the freerunner now? Sep 12 09:03:38 (the hardware)? Sep 12 09:03:38 (ignore the clock app - a test app i use) Sep 12 09:03:50 working on an... improved theme Sep 12 09:03:59 ronny: gprs and gfx are spoiling the experience a bit Sep 12 09:04:08 mickey|mdd08: I don't think that anyone can tell that the hardware is consumer ready ... we haven't tested alot of stuff yet I guess ? Sep 12 09:04:10 * mickey|mdd08 on gprs... slowly waiting for the pngs to load... Sep 12 09:04:17 CVirus: true Sep 12 09:04:18 mickey: I 2nd ronny's question - it seems pretty solid hardware-wise to me... Sep 12 09:04:21 will be eventually doing some major surguery inside illume to make it easy to flip configs and update esily Sep 12 09:04:32 mickey|mdd08: I mean .. how can you tell that there's no hardware obstacle behind the white screen of death ? Sep 12 09:04:36 i'm just busy with other paid work right now Sep 12 09:04:40 so i dont spend much time on this Sep 12 09:04:41 raster: uuh nice. more light Sep 12 09:04:48 i just started redoign the keyboard Sep 12 09:04:51 more firendly Sep 12 09:05:07 as the kbd was utterly boring Sep 12 09:05:09 :) Sep 12 09:05:18 hello, i don't find the correct alsamixer setting for setting the headphones on ASU...what keyword should i look for...i looked for stereo...but my handfree thing is mono on ASU(was stereo on 2007.2) Sep 12 09:05:25 raster: this is cool Sep 12 09:05:46 doing a theme... properly Sep 12 09:05:52 dotting i's and t's takes forever Sep 12 09:05:58 wel corssing t's Sep 12 09:05:59 :) Sep 12 09:06:02 and dotting i's Sep 12 09:06:20 u have to consider how it will reisze, scale with screen dpi etc. Sep 12 09:06:27 e has really basic screen dpi scaling support atm Sep 12 09:06:29 its an env var Sep 12 09:06:34 i need to break it out to real runtime config Sep 12 09:06:46 edje now supports it too Sep 12 09:06:47 gnutoo: check out http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_1973_audio_subsystem Sep 12 09:07:09 the numbers on the diagram correspond to the control number in the .state file Sep 12 09:07:12 HTH Sep 12 09:07:18 btw, is the freerunner config daemon gconf compatible? Sep 12 09:07:20 AntiSol, thanks...i thought it was only for gta01 Sep 12 09:07:29 ronny: config daemon? Sep 12 09:07:34 config daemon? Sep 12 09:07:39 there is one? Sep 12 09:07:53 seems to work for gta02 as well, though I haven't played with that stuff very much yet, on my 'to do' list... Sep 12 09:07:58 the dbis api thats saving config data to yaml files Sep 12 09:08:02 mickey|mdd08: Which milestone targets FSO's GPS API ? Sep 12 09:09:28 CVirus: been there since ms2 Sep 12 09:09:34 bad me Sep 12 09:09:39 :) Sep 12 09:09:59 well, you have a point Sep 12 09:10:02 it's not on docs Sep 12 09:10:05 ah Sep 12 09:10:06 since it's not our invention Sep 12 09:10:07 hehe Sep 12 09:10:20 link ? Sep 12 09:10:32 is the fso development using any unit testing framework and if so are the test cases available as packages or otherwise ? Sep 12 09:10:45 CVirus: gpysy.freedesktop.org iirc Sep 12 09:10:51 thank you Sep 12 09:11:06 hipitihop: we have some tests, but unfortunately no full python unit testing yet Sep 12 09:11:17 hipitihop: this is one major task before we reach 1.0 Sep 12 09:11:23 Folks, please stay tuned, we're currently suffering some hardware issues and are trying to get things back up and running as quick as possible. Sep 12 09:11:38 hehe Sep 12 09:11:51 raster: amazing, can't wait! Sep 12 09:12:20 mickey|mdd08, so that suggests your group does not practice tdd Sep 12 09:12:22 mickey|mdd08: its based on the new e17 theme. (new default - not in yet as its not 100% complete) Sep 12 09:12:38 http://gypsy.freedesktop.org/ Sep 12 09:12:40 mickey|mdd08: BUT this means it saves time in the long run as i can re-use the theme work Sep 12 09:13:05 mickey|mdd08: is PreferencesAPI gconf-compatible? Sep 12 09:13:05 right now its a direct e17 "new" theme + extensions for illume, no overrides of original desktop theme Sep 12 09:13:07 what was that command to read the devices revision? Sep 12 09:13:19 hmm Sep 12 09:13:33 nm, i just found the specs Sep 12 09:13:35 hipitihop: correct. unfortunately we're not there yet. but I'm serious about having this before 1.0 Sep 12 09:13:49 beni_: cat /proc/cpuinfo? Sep 12 09:13:54 beni_: at+cgmr? Sep 12 09:14:26 mickey|mdd08: second Sep 12 09:14:50 * CVirus needs to get his broken elbow casted :( Sep 12 09:15:21 ronny: not at this point of time -- see early discussions about gconf's deprecation on the mailing list Sep 12 09:15:55 well, gconf is kinda bad stuff Sep 12 09:15:59 the successor from the gnome team is not ready though as well Sep 12 09:15:59 so we just did something to get info about our use cases Sep 12 09:16:05 (stupid xml madness) Sep 12 09:16:28 the sound...seems strange...i don't know how to describe it....like when you remove the ground on the headphones but voice is ok Sep 12 09:16:29 mickey|mdd08: there is a gconf sucessor? Sep 12 09:16:38 mind to point me to it? Sep 12 09:16:38 ya Sep 12 09:16:48 i don't know the name offhand Sep 12 09:16:54 check the smartphones-standards archives Sep 12 09:16:57 mickey|mdd08, at the risk of sounding critical or teaching grandma to suck eggs, and believe me I have respect for FSO and you guys for your work to date, but IMHO this should have been in place from the start. Unit test should be done up front prior to actual code. It actually accelerates your development Sep 12 09:17:02 we talked about that some months ago Sep 12 09:17:09 hipitihop: i agree. Sep 12 09:17:12 hipitihop: and i know Sep 12 09:17:29 hipitihop: but yet i had no team when i started and did not know whether my plans would work out Sep 12 09:17:38 hipitihop: so i didn't do it right from the start. Sep 12 09:17:56 nothing i can do about that know except requiring it before we reach 1.0 Sep 12 09:18:01 mickey|mdd08, as consumers of the code or developers we could could submit bugs in the form of executable bugs. Sep 12 09:18:22 yeah. trust me, I'm a university guy, I know about the merits of TDD Sep 12 09:18:30 but still this time i did not do it. bad me Sep 12 09:18:36 hmm Sep 12 09:18:48 sometimes testing is hellish tho Sep 12 09:19:00 it must be a setting problem... Sep 12 09:19:14 at least I hope Sep 12 09:19:28 (im writing a lib thats abstracting vcs's, there is basically no way to have complete checks testcases) Sep 12 09:21:48 : but there are some test cases Sep 12 09:21:57 ronny, it is even more hellish when you don't have the confidence to change your code because you are not confident that you will break something. automated unit tests encode your intentions and give you confidence to refactor mercilessly Sep 12 09:22:05 hipitihop: but there are some test cases Sep 12 09:22:57 hipitihop: we just don't use it enough, that is a pity Sep 12 09:23:50 every test you spend time writing is a gamble Sep 12 09:23:52 hipitihop: yeah, thats why i recently started partial tests for the lib, works out well, but i will never be able to veryfy some things in a generic way Sep 12 09:23:53 hmm, irc is low bandwidth enough so i actually get calls Sep 12 09:23:58 u spend time X on the test suite Sep 12 09:24:03 so gprs + gsm is _kind of_ working Sep 12 09:24:33 u ASSUME more than time X will be saved in "hunting" bugs that a test suite will instantly point out Sep 12 09:24:44 u also have time Y spend in debugging/fixing the test suite Sep 12 09:24:48 test suites are not bug-free Sep 12 09:24:55 so u cant just assume the test suite is perfect Sep 12 09:25:03 raster: well, just writing a test-suite made me find like 10 bugs i didnt even notice Sep 12 09:25:13 so unittests kick ass Sep 12 09:25:20 so u hope X+Y < bug hunting time normally Sep 12 09:25:27 ronny: just reading code can do that too Sep 12 09:25:28 :) Sep 12 09:25:33 seriously tho Sep 12 09:25:34 raster: yes, but bad tests are better than no tests at all. Once they work you can modify the code and make sure you didn't break anything Sep 12 09:25:39 if i did have a full test suite for most of my libs Sep 12 09:25:44 it'd be 20x the size of the libs Sep 12 09:25:56 and i wouldnt have written a fraction of what i have maanged to do Sep 12 09:26:05 so i would have achieved much less Sep 12 09:26:14 its ALWAYs a tradeoff Sep 12 09:26:21 you are making a bet Sep 12 09:26:34 raster: also i refactor often, all the tests find stupid bugs very fast Sep 12 09:26:40 tyhat time spent in test suite is < time spent without it Sep 12 09:26:59 of course u are stupid writing a library/daemon with nothnig to "excercise it" Sep 12 09:27:07 its like shouting in a vacuum Sep 12 09:27:08 :) Sep 12 09:27:19 but a full test suite is another matter Sep 12 09:27:24 ya, zhone has been our "testing" code for the framework Sep 12 09:27:34 but still i'd like to have real unit testts Sep 12 09:27:36 mickey|mdd08: imho zhone is probably a good middleground Sep 12 09:27:42 it does form a "test suite" Sep 12 09:27:51 somehtnig to make the wheels turn Sep 12 09:27:57 raster: i think a full test suite == all checks that are required to check the behaviour fits Sep 12 09:27:59 a full test suite is gerat in theory Sep 12 09:28:04 but it *IS* a time sink Sep 12 09:28:09 a very large one Sep 12 09:28:10 the problem I have with the 'test suite' theory is that if you write the tests, you also know how to beat them - you tend to write your software to pass the tests whic doesn't neccessarily reflect real-world usage. Sep 12 09:28:20 I hope one day we can have a test suite that spend days only making phone call, sendind messages, etc... Sep 12 09:28:25 raster, with all due respect that and taking on board all your reasoning, in practice one's gut feeling is wrong. It is also about communicating your intent to someone that follows you. I know you're great, but if I changed your keyboard code I would have nothing to back me up and make sure I have not broken any of your assumptions Sep 12 09:28:27 ronny: u'd be surprised how big that is for a sufficiently complex system Sep 12 09:28:54 charlie137: agreed. we can not go 1.0 before that. we will have to lay out the grounds when I'm in .tw Sep 12 09:29:07 mickey: full ack Sep 12 09:29:08 hipitihop: correct. you wouldnt. but i really dont have time to write a test suite for it Sep 12 09:29:17 itd wither make more useful code that does something Sep 12 09:29:24 or spend time not going anywhere writign a test suite. Sep 12 09:29:29 raster: thats why i try to design for testability Sep 12 09:29:44 if its easy to tests, its usualy nicely decoupled and modular Sep 12 09:29:44 ronny: easier said than done Sep 12 09:29:56 raster: refactoring helps Sep 12 09:29:56 the test suite should do stuff like : turn antenna off and one 100 times, send 100 messages to an other phone, etc... Sep 12 09:30:07 if you write tests first, they represent your design and also act as a todo list. You know you're done when all your tests pass. Sep 12 09:30:12 *off and on Sep 12 09:30:14 i invite peopel to please write the test suite Sep 12 09:30:17 patches accepted Sep 12 09:30:24 always Sep 12 09:30:28 the funny thng is Sep 12 09:30:31 i have found Sep 12 09:30:57 charlie137: yep. we still have not a clear idea about timing / command order issues w/ the modem. automated tests can help us here Sep 12 09:31:00 95%+ (number puleld out of arse) of peopl;e goign around preaching things like test suites, unit tests etc. will never actually helpu and write them Sep 12 09:31:07 or they do some token effort to try prove their point Sep 12 09:31:13 then never help in writing the mountain of tests Sep 12 09:31:15 just a few Sep 12 09:31:41 i wrote a "test suite" for evas (expedite) Sep 12 09:31:45 mickey: yes, in fact the reason why I didn't write the "do each thing 100 times" test is because it fails :P Sep 12 09:31:51 no one has extended it to test all of the things evas objects can do Sep 12 09:32:00 charlie137: hehehe, right Sep 12 09:32:03 for example trying to turn the antenna of and on many times fails Sep 12 09:32:06 and i'm not surprised - it'd be 100 times the current size Sep 12 09:32:08 :) Sep 12 09:32:26 raster: *nod* but expedite rocks Sep 12 09:32:31 it even looks good Sep 12 09:32:39 i wish the time existed to go write all those test Sep 12 09:32:42 not just correctness Sep 12 09:32:44 performance too Sep 12 09:32:52 hmm Sep 12 09:32:54 i find that with all the focus on "unit tests" to test if it breaks Sep 12 09:33:05 there is also a lack of "did you just make it 50% slower?" tests Sep 12 09:33:16 i tihnk many of those things should be done via static checking Sep 12 09:33:23 again - i'd love to have the time and luxury to cover all that theory Sep 12 09:33:31 i dont really want to test for buffer-overflows Sep 12 09:33:31 but in the end, a test suite doesnt make users happy Sep 12 09:33:37 I understand all the arguments against and the last thing I want to do is preach. All I can say is until it becomes part of one's development philosophy one will actually experience that they develop faster then without. The misconception is they take extra time. Sep 12 09:33:40 the compiler toolchain should find them Sep 12 09:33:43 it doesnt give a user something to sovle their problems Sep 12 09:34:09 and so it tends to always play a distant second fiddle to "Features and efficiency" :( Sep 12 09:34:50 why can't end users execute the unit tests and post their failures ? Sep 12 09:34:53 hipitihop: i've spent time on test suites. as i said - they canbe helpful, but i prefer to write "useful apps" Sep 12 09:34:57 the apps ARE the test suites Sep 12 09:35:13 "hey you broke app X - dialog Y's button is now all squished!" Sep 12 09:35:16 :) Sep 12 09:35:27 gui testing is pain Sep 12 09:35:28 u now have a useful app... AND something to crank the qheels Sep 12 09:35:39 ronny: very much so - maybe thats why i keep going on about how hard it is Sep 12 09:35:59 it helps to decouple things from guis Sep 12 09:36:05 ronny: when u are rendering stuff - and often the behavior of the system in the end is interactive, a test suite is a massive bit of work Sep 12 09:36:10 raster: as far as the framework is concern, the tests are simple to write : the chance they have to be buggy is negligible compared to the insurance they provide concerning the framework code. Sep 12 09:36:25 (but i have to admit im far behind with the unittests of pida) Sep 12 09:37:00 Problems with gui and testing is that some of the bugs results in the widgets just not looking good. And thats hard to automate. Sep 12 09:37:12 Daramarak2: yup Sep 12 09:37:19 or off-by-1 pixels stuff Sep 12 09:37:22 where sometiems that is ok Sep 12 09:37:27 and what is acceptable Sep 12 09:37:31 Yeah Sep 12 09:37:36 (eg a rounding down/up difference on centering) Sep 12 09:37:39 but in some cases not Sep 12 09:37:55 then based on your output Sep 12 09:38:01 hmm, i prefer not to depend on pixels Sep 12 09:38:07 raster, I don't want to belabor the point or piss you off as I appreciate your efforts, Sep 12 09:38:09 what format of dithering based on what output engine was selected Sep 12 09:38:14 may or may not match or be desirable Sep 12 09:38:15 etc. Sep 12 09:38:23 hipitihop: :) Sep 12 09:38:35 hipitihop: i just think that there is a moderated middle-gorund Sep 12 09:38:35 (still for gui, you can test that the memory is correctly released when you destroy widgets) Sep 12 09:38:56 charlie137: you may not release the memory Sep 12 09:39:00 ch u may garbage collect Sep 12 09:39:01 or cache Sep 12 09:39:06 or re-cycle some of it Sep 12 09:39:07 ... Sep 12 09:39:07 :) Sep 12 09:39:23 i just find the best solution is coding habits Sep 12 09:39:29 agreed UI testing an additional layer and usually a pain. But depends on the UI framewwork as to how hard it is to instrument Sep 12 09:39:31 i wrote code that does Sep 12 09:39:44 thing_create() {....} Sep 12 09:39:56 instantly write thnig_free() {....} Sep 12 09:40:09 for every thing sub-alloc instantly put in a free for it Sep 12 09:40:12 But asides from guis, I think test before code, and make every bug a new test. Steps to reproduce make many and quick unittests. Sep 12 09:40:13 even if u dont use it yet Sep 12 09:40:20 so u dont forget later Sep 12 09:40:30 just habits like Sep 12 09:40:45 * hipitihop agrees with Daramarak2 Sep 12 09:40:48 if (str && (!strcmp(str, "whatever"))) Sep 12 09:40:55 just habits of always checking stuff Sep 12 09:41:03 hmm Sep 12 09:41:11 not writing c kill loads of those Sep 12 09:41:17 Daramarak2: yes, the best practice is to write a test for it before fixing a new bug Sep 12 09:41:32 ronny: it kills the silly ones Sep 12 09:41:37 ronny, so does not dereferencing null :) Sep 12 09:41:40 it tends to make u much less aware though Sep 12 09:41:57 when u start getting complacent "oh it will just be gc';d for me" Sep 12 09:42:05 u stop de-referencing objects Sep 12 09:42:08 well, its a language issue Sep 12 09:42:11 u keep them around aand u forget they are there Sep 12 09:42:13 still reffed Sep 12 09:42:14 and if you think something has a bug or thing it works in a praticular way then simple, write a test to prove your hypothesis. Frequently the results are surprising Sep 12 09:42:21 i tned to like it in my face Sep 12 09:42:22 :) Sep 12 09:42:24 c has no way to automate solving common bug causes Sep 12 09:42:49 it's a programmer issue, not a language issue Sep 12 09:42:59 ya, factor language into account. it's actually a breeze to write unit tests w/ high level languages. i wouldn't do it in C either :D Sep 12 09:43:10 but yes unit testing is easier/harder depending on language Sep 12 09:43:12 i'd love to see someone tackle writign a test suite for e Sep 12 09:43:14 eg Sep 12 09:43:25 "when vlc goes fullscreen u sometimes get a ghost window" Sep 12 09:43:25 c is just a mess Sep 12 09:43:26 ie Sep 12 09:43:36 first u need to write an emulation of vlc's behavior in an isolated x client Sep 12 09:43:46 that happens to reproduce the same bug Sep 12 09:43:47 RELIABLY Sep 12 09:43:58 and as its result is also part of a race condition - this may be hard Sep 12 09:44:11 THEN u need a way to run such a test and test for the "ghost window" Sep 12 09:44:17 which tiself is tricky Sep 12 09:44:26 highrer level languages are why i need a 2ghz computer to browse the web when in 2000 i was using like 300mhz Sep 12 09:44:36 as u eithe rneed to put in lots of probe code within the wm to regularly trawl for states - if it is that state Sep 12 09:44:44 or a human needs to spot it and go "ooh thats wrong Sep 12 09:44:45 :) Sep 12 09:44:50 raster, are you primarily in pythong or C ? Sep 12 09:44:54 hipitihop: c Sep 12 09:45:04 hipitihop: a and down to asm if i need it Sep 12 09:45:07 pythong makes it sound a lot more attractive though Sep 12 09:45:11 raster actually hates python :D Sep 12 09:45:16 yup Sep 12 09:45:28 much like i can't stand C ;) Sep 12 09:45:28 ieatlint: higher level languages dont mean decrased performance, incappable language implementors cause decreased performance Sep 12 09:45:29 any c and a dude would :-) Sep 12 09:45:32 my unhappiness with pyhton has increased thanks to cyhon Sep 12 09:45:34 glad we have dbus in the middle ;) Sep 12 09:45:35 and you let evas/edje/etc bindings into python... for shame Sep 12 09:46:02 ieatlint: after all subsets of python can be optimized to code thats faster than a normal c implementation of the same thing Sep 12 09:46:02 ronny, they basically do, it's a question of how much decreased performance generally Sep 12 09:46:05 * hipitihop agrees with ronny Sep 12 09:46:23 ieatlint: i had nothnig to do with them... i'm happy for people to have bindings! Sep 12 09:46:27 that would depend on the c libraries you were relying on methinks Sep 12 09:46:27 raster: let me mention that if you had used glib/gobject, you would have got sane bindings for free :D Sep 12 09:46:52 mickey|mdd08: gobject in c us not usable Sep 12 09:46:58 it just is not Sep 12 09:47:03 i'm using it Sep 12 09:47:11 its a clusterfuck of verbose shit thats hard to understand Sep 12 09:47:18 * mickey|mdd08 would love to marry Vala w/ EFL Sep 12 09:47:20 mickey|mdd08: to late... and it'd just have caused other problems instead Sep 12 09:47:20 :) Sep 12 09:47:31 vala is mostly sane Sep 12 09:47:36 also pythoin was not even a twinkly in most peoples eyes when starting efl Sep 12 09:47:36 you want something hard to understand, look at GtkTree* stuff Sep 12 09:47:44 (GtkTreeModel, GtkTreeView, etc) Sep 12 09:48:05 ieatlint: people should be shoot for that Sep 12 09:48:16 oh god Sep 12 09:48:18 yeah Sep 12 09:48:23 gtk2's treemodel goop is a pita Sep 12 09:48:23 cause its not only hard to understand, it also totaly sucks Sep 12 09:48:41 i'm midway through some basic understanding of it Sep 12 09:48:44 i quite enjoy programming in C thanks to GLib Sep 12 09:48:48 all i wanted was a drop down box damnit :( Sep 12 09:49:15 yeah, glib saves quite a bit of time Sep 12 09:49:30 zedstar: glib is ok, gobject isnt Sep 12 09:49:31 yup Sep 12 09:49:38 ronny i would agree Sep 12 09:49:42 hm, in FSO-MS3-III, my locking does not work Sep 12 09:49:43 anyone who doesnt sue some form of datatype/loop/event wrapper lib in c is nuts Sep 12 09:49:51 use Sep 12 09:49:54 glib is good Sep 12 09:50:03 its missing some things imho Sep 12 09:50:05 beni_: "locking" ? Sep 12 09:50:08 still, for at least low level things, i still think you need to know what's going on behind the scenes Sep 12 09:50:15 mickey|mdd08: screen locking Sep 12 09:50:36 pressing AUX does not work anymore Sep 12 09:50:39 well, these days im happy i dont have to write any c Sep 12 09:50:41 things like linked lists... if you don't know how they work, you should tae the time Sep 12 09:50:44 i already had that problem in MS-II Sep 12 09:50:50 vala+python solve most of myproblems Sep 12 09:51:18 beni_: ya, for some reason AUX is not handled by E once someone else reads from the event node Sep 12 09:51:36 beni_: we should decouple this function and make it framework-aware Sep 12 09:51:40 ua ok Sep 12 09:51:41 on our list of tasks Sep 12 09:51:46 very good to hear. Sep 12 09:51:50 thanks for the clarifying Sep 12 09:51:56 np Sep 12 09:52:05 i want to move the zhone locking out of zhone Sep 12 09:52:06 into illume Sep 12 09:52:11 very good idea Sep 12 09:52:12 (where it belongs to, actually) Sep 12 09:52:20 mickey|mdd08: you shouldnt be goign to the /dev/... devices directly Sep 12 09:52:36 its just nasty layer stomping Sep 12 09:52:37 raster: i need to Sep 12 09:52:42 why? Sep 12 09:52:44 :) Sep 12 09:52:52 * raster has an answer prepared Sep 12 09:53:03 no alternative Sep 12 09:53:13 * raster points to xevie Sep 12 09:53:15 framework should work without X Sep 12 09:53:24 * hipitihop understands why raster and anyone doing C or A does not use unit tests. If it is not easy then it slows you down. AFAIK there is nothing like xUnit for C Sep 12 09:53:43 hipitihop: yup. that was just my point Sep 12 09:53:44 :) Sep 12 09:53:50 when u say "make a unit test suite" Sep 12 09:53:52 i groan Sep 12 09:54:04 i know how much work it wil be splittign everyting out so it can be tested Sep 12 09:54:08 then just the build for the tests Sep 12 09:54:09 and the runs Sep 12 09:54:10 sounds like someone has to write a xunit for C Sep 12 09:54:14 compares to known good results etc. Sep 12 09:54:18 even then Sep 12 09:54:19 who needs X when you got FSO !! Sep 12 09:54:26 its impossible for many things - like a full window manager Sep 12 09:54:34 well Sep 12 09:54:38 its behavior depends ona massive chain of things through x and with other applications Sep 12 09:54:41 FSO + python scripts for calls/SMS/phonebook Sep 12 09:54:44 I'm still a fan of going directly to the framebuffer Sep 12 09:54:45 :-) Sep 12 09:54:53 mickey|mdd08: imoh fso shouldnt know about any buttons Sep 12 09:54:54 at ALL Sep 12 09:55:02 what buttons ?! Sep 12 09:55:08 PWR Sep 12 09:55:13 its is the job of the ui to indicate "Desired actions" Sep 12 09:55:19 ruby had a nice test framework which is easy to use even if u dont really know ruby...but i guess python is the same Sep 12 09:55:30 the ui will map a desired action from a hardware button or via a toushcreen button etc. Sep 12 09:55:52 raster: i need to read from input nodes to know about idleness Sep 12 09:56:00 X's idea of idleness just doesn#t cut it Sep 12 09:56:06 X has not enough information Sep 12 09:56:07 mickey|mdd08: let a x app tell u about idleness Sep 12 09:56:15 it is possible Sep 12 09:56:24 everything is possible Sep 12 09:56:30 xscreensaver extension allows u to have x just issue an event on idelenss of N Sep 12 09:56:37 zedstar, lets not turn this into a language advocacy war but you do know that the xUnit generation, exteme/agile programming were all invented in the smalltalk world. Sep 12 09:56:39 we can think about making certain odeviced modules for framebuffer-only Sep 12 09:56:40 (N being N seconds) Sep 12 09:56:46 and certain odeviced modules for X-awareness Sep 12 09:56:50 s/exteme/extreme Sep 12 09:56:56 idleness meaning no keyboard./hardware button or touschreen poress Sep 12 09:57:28 hipitithop i didnt know......i did smalltalk at uni though Sep 12 09:57:38 zedstar, and yes, ruby amongst others have borrowed heavily from Smalltalk Sep 12 09:58:21 zedstar, I haven't looked but I'm assuming the unit test framework in ruby is a derivative of xUnit Sep 12 09:58:36 raster: well, odeviced is modular for a reason :) Sep 12 09:58:40 mickey|mdd08: actually.. with xevie... uc an do it without xscreensaver Sep 12 09:58:52 just listen to all x inptu events Sep 12 09:58:58 have a daemon figure out what it cares about or not Sep 12 09:59:05 and have a timeout Sep 12 09:59:08 again, that's not enough for busyness Sep 12 09:59:17 how not? Sep 12 09:59:20 incoming calls should trigger a busyness as well Sep 12 09:59:25 X has no idea about an incoming call Sep 12 09:59:29 event button (key) press and every mosue event will go thru it Sep 12 09:59:36 oh sure Sep 12 09:59:41 there's more to business than input events Sep 12 09:59:47 an example where i had to use ruby test framework was i worked for an ISP migrating some apache modules which were written in C and they had like 300,000 web customers so all this C code needed testing and ruby was kewl at automating all the web calls and tests Sep 12 09:59:47 u need multiple sources of idelness Sep 12 09:59:49 that's why I think X has not enough info Sep 12 09:59:51 x is one Sep 12 09:59:57 coverig kbd/mouse) Sep 12 10:00:02 u need other Sep 12 10:00:03 i have a hw question Sep 12 10:00:08 when ALL sources known to exist say they are idle Sep 12 10:00:12 then u are really idle Sep 12 10:00:13 :) Sep 12 10:00:19 yes Sep 12 10:00:20 x isnt enough Sep 12 10:00:21 also, i'm planning to integrate mouse and accel gesture support into the framework Sep 12 10:00:27 but u dont need to go open /dev/input/... Sep 12 10:00:28 since X has no events for things like that Sep 12 10:00:32 thats all i'm talking about Sep 12 10:00:32 although it should rather be done there Sep 12 10:00:34 :) Sep 12 10:00:35 mickey|mdd08, excellent Sep 12 10:00:40 if you ahve a GTA02 rev 5, how do you know how to check the v5 vs v6 changes? Sep 12 10:00:55 yeah, perhaps someone comes up with a X-aware-alternative of idlenotifier implementatioin Sep 12 10:01:09 as such tho Sep 12 10:01:15 the 2 buttons on FR are mostly useless Sep 12 10:01:19 aux is easy to press Sep 12 10:01:22 power isnt so easy Sep 12 10:01:25 and its only 2 :( Sep 12 10:01:29 * hipitihop tears himself away to finish some code before dinner Sep 12 10:01:34 i pretty much am happy to almost ignore them Sep 12 10:01:57 raster: for special purposes like using the phone as "push-to-talk" device they are still useful :) Sep 12 10:02:00 is there some feed for MS-3 already? Sep 12 10:02:35 hai Sep 12 10:03:01 methril|work: cat /proc/cpuinfo Sep 12 10:03:08 yes, i did that Sep 12 10:03:15 lindi-: there are so few of them.. they invaliably will be stolen for takss Sep 12 10:03:21 eg power stolen for suspend./power Sep 12 10:03:23 methril|work: good, that'll tell you Sep 12 10:03:24 that kleaves just aux Sep 12 10:03:26 my question was about the HW GPS probless Sep 12 10:03:43 s/probless/problems Sep 12 10:03:46 oh, no way without opening the device and looking for the hardware reworks Sep 12 10:03:55 nice, thnks Sep 12 10:04:45 mickey|mdd08, is the FSO plans to add new hw support? Sep 12 10:04:46 methril|work: I have what is presumably the rev 5 without the rework and I have no problems with the gps, the software fix seems to have cured it here :) Sep 12 10:04:49 not Openmoko ones? Sep 12 10:05:09 methril|work: absolutely. that's why i launched the project as FSO and not as Openmoko Framework Sep 12 10:05:13 thnk u Tig| Sep 12 10:05:18 we already have basic support for OpenEZX Sep 12 10:05:22 nice to hear that Sep 12 10:05:33 looking for HTC support as well Sep 12 10:05:38 probably later this year Sep 12 10:05:44 depending on how the kernel guys make progress Sep 12 10:05:46 super cool Sep 12 10:05:46 i'm helping idasystem guys, and i'd like to get it on em-x270 Sep 12 10:06:01 mickey|mdd08: try to push Steve to hire more kernel devs Sep 12 10:06:02 mickey|mdd08: aye. need other systems supported Sep 12 10:06:03 HTC!! this was an option Sep 12 10:06:07 as FR is a limited subset of hw Sep 12 10:06:10 ie no keypad Sep 12 10:06:16 ye Sep 12 10:06:17 s Sep 12 10:06:18 vga not qvga Sep 12 10:06:19 CVirus: no, i'm referring to the HTC/OpenEZX kernel guys Sep 12 10:06:24 steve won't hire those :) Sep 12 10:06:31 i need to make sure stuff works in a range of resolutions Sep 12 10:06:33 haha Sep 12 10:06:38 i'm really interesting in HTC too Sep 12 10:06:41 but kernel support is unfortunately the foundation for FSO Sep 12 10:06:44 it's hard to port a kernel? Sep 12 10:06:45 raster: yes! Sep 12 10:06:51 methril|work: incredibly, yes. Sep 12 10:06:56 especially without vendor support Sep 12 10:07:08 even if u get kernel up Sep 12 10:07:11 openezx e.g. struggling since 2004 Sep 12 10:07:14 u still have a mountain of devices to support Sep 12 10:07:19 this what i'd like to do, but at the beginning you walk blind Sep 12 10:07:25 and then theres x (or gui level stuff) Sep 12 10:07:28 (i don't know if this is the expression) Sep 12 10:07:34 if its a "accelerated chip" Sep 12 10:07:40 and gsm... and wifi.. and.... Sep 12 10:07:51 uhm!! Sep 12 10:07:53 ya, custom chips suck Sep 12 10:08:02 even if u get a kenrel booting and userspace Sep 12 10:08:02 and they are still don't working? Sep 12 10:08:06 even a dumb fb /dev/fb Sep 12 10:08:11 u have a moutnain of work left Sep 12 10:08:24 and even if u get it working Sep 12 10:08:25 yes, then you have a working system, without services Sep 12 10:08:43 u will find hw bugs that official drivers "work around"but no one is goign to let you know about them and how to work around Sep 12 10:08:43 LOL @ raster Sep 12 10:08:47 but you get the first step, that it's hard too Sep 12 10:08:55 methril|work: no, they still have problems with some ASICs Sep 12 10:09:06 hmm Sep 12 10:09:07 completely undocumented high intergrated custom chips Sep 12 10:09:12 and by the time u have finally battled so hard to get everything workign right Sep 12 10:09:18 the device is obsolete and not produced anymore Sep 12 10:09:22 and hard to find Sep 12 10:09:23 :( Sep 12 10:09:32 the ASICS could be nice if you have a "documented" API for the speciall stuff Sep 12 10:09:39 btw, are there any plans to work with another os than linux? Sep 12 10:09:41 i wish more hardware makers would want to play the open game Sep 12 10:09:57 ronny: "why?" Sep 12 10:10:04 do you meam bsd Sep 12 10:10:07 or l4 Sep 12 10:10:10 (i really think linux is not fit for phones) Sep 12 10:10:11 methril nods Sep 12 10:10:11 or wince? Sep 12 10:10:17 ronny: no immediate plans here, but patches appreciated Sep 12 10:10:31 puaj!! Sep 12 10:10:49 raster: surely not wince Sep 12 10:11:05 imho linux is just fine Sep 12 10:11:05 raster: but something with rather small footprints would be nice Sep 12 10:11:10 well, embedded systems expose a lot of layering violations which are tough to do w/ linux Sep 12 10:11:23 where it is used and supported it works well Sep 12 10:11:24 if you don't care about layers, you're better off Sep 12 10:11:34 and linxu can have a very small footprint Sep 12 10:11:37 raster: linux is just large and not really made for embedded systems Sep 12 10:11:44 my basic os for my ipaq was 2.5mb Sep 12 10:11:53 kernel, userspace up to a shell prompt Sep 12 10:12:01 linux has been cranked out in a lot of phones in china and with motorola in the US so must be doing something right Sep 12 10:12:03 and busybox commands and enough to get more stuff on Sep 12 10:12:08 * mickey|mdd08 needs to pay some attention to the talks Sep 12 10:12:09 l8er Sep 12 10:12:24 what talks ? Sep 12 10:12:25 zedstar: it works ok, and its allread implemented Sep 12 10:12:29 for 4mb of flash i added an xserver, the x libs and a basic x test app Sep 12 10:12:55 raster, the reverse engineering of some devices, implies HW signalc checkings? Sep 12 10:12:55 ah the conference whatsoever Sep 12 10:13:00 zedstar: doent help the boot times, and the fac that the whole infrastrucutre is a large mess Sep 12 10:13:11 grrr, SHR compile still gets to 5144 of 5148 and then exits with an error. Anybody have success with SHR? Sep 12 10:13:14 methril|work: it may mean it - yes. Sep 12 10:13:44 the OpenEZX did it for kernel dev? Sep 12 10:13:51 for other phones completely functional images are like 4 mb, openmoko is 50 mb, and can barely be used for phone/sms Sep 12 10:14:19 so there must be something wrong Sep 12 10:14:25 hello Sep 12 10:14:47 What 4m images support GSM, Wifi, GPS, Accleromteres, ... etc Sep 12 10:14:58 ronny: frankly - that is just a matter of OE and how/what it builds Sep 12 10:15:11 ronny: as i said. i've gotten a whill xserver, xlibs and kernel and bas os into 4mb Sep 12 10:15:23 ronny: yes - its not as small as "fully functional" phone Sep 12 10:15:36 but... u could have a fulyl fucntonal linux in < 32m Sep 12 10:15:53 who cares about linux, i want a phone Sep 12 10:16:06 just what oe builds is a little extra bloated Sep 12 10:16:14 ronny: then go buy a nokia Sep 12 10:16:17 nop need to be here Sep 12 10:16:22 or buy a motorola Sep 12 10:16:27 i guess the issue is how well linux works as a smart phone compared to linux embedded into low phones with just a java interface Sep 12 10:16:28 or a samsung lg etc. Sep 12 10:16:33 if thats all u want Sep 12 10:16:39 open hardware was a requirement for me Sep 12 10:16:39 iPhone :-p Sep 12 10:16:58 ronny: "why" ? Sep 12 10:17:10 raster: cause i hack with it Sep 12 10:17:18 shhh raster, you arent supposed to say that out loud ;) Sep 12 10:17:26 does open hardware matter unless u untend to modify tjhe hardware and/or write specialised software fopr it Sep 12 10:17:34 and then open hw - is that rlelevant if your sdk isnt fully open? Sep 12 10:17:49 supposedly android is out next month on t-mobile if u believe the hype Sep 12 10:17:56 linux and open hardware go hand-in-hand Sep 12 10:18:02 boycott android Sep 12 10:18:19 i suspect google is playing the open source tune on their trumpet Sep 12 10:18:26 well, if i want to write custom toy os's in otder to play with things, i need such stuff Sep 12 10:18:27 but in the end their "handset partners"टोनत बे Sep 12 10:18:29 CVirus what's wrong with Android? Sep 12 10:18:31 err Sep 12 10:18:34 partners won't be Sep 12 10:18:37 im just curious to have a play on one Sep 12 10:18:43 and u'll have a half-open system Sep 12 10:18:45 with closed hw Sep 12 10:18:51 signed bootloaders Sep 12 10:18:58 closed userspace drivers and processes etc. Sep 12 10:19:00 Infoport: not GPL'ed, java, closed hw, they could have collaborated with FIC Sep 12 10:19:00 i got bored with an iphone pretty quick i bet be same for android Sep 12 10:20:40 i not really a huge fan of google's all your base are belong to us attitude Sep 12 10:21:12 CVirus: not sure gpl is the real issue here, but more that they specifically avoided gpl everywhere they could and re-implemented much of userspace just to be rid of it that smells of a rat Sep 12 10:22:05 recommend mail client openmoko 2008.8 Sep 12 10:22:06 ? Sep 12 10:22:24 Open_Gl: unfortunately not mutt Sep 12 10:23:31 maybe they are looking to partner with SUSE and dont want to be dragged down by legal-stuff :P Sep 12 10:25:18 gaaah I should be playing with my phone instead of troll-baiting (and no takers) Sep 12 10:26:18 i should be reading a book about UML but that stuff is seriously dull and IRC is more interesting Sep 12 10:26:29 wonder if we'll see a port of KenYoung's Orrery to the Qtopia platform? Sep 12 10:27:34 zedstar yet another person today asked me why I was putting such effort into running a phone and *not* getting paid for it...didn't have a job for me though Sep 12 10:28:27 infoport yeh the unwashed masses are non believers Sep 12 10:29:31 Infoport: "because its fun?" Sep 12 10:29:32 :) Sep 12 10:31:27 I think I need a build machine so my main desktop isnt strangled for 2-3 days to compile a system (esp when it fails at the end) Sep 12 10:33:56 got to get these USB adapters paying off too-- anybody running any interesting extra devices off USB? keyboards, mice, special stuff? Sep 12 10:35:12 webcam, 2 freerunners, my motrola, wireless kbd/mouse, n800, card reader...my usb sockets are pretty crammed Sep 12 10:35:30 psp also charges off usb too Sep 12 10:35:57 i'm really low on spare usb sockets Sep 12 10:36:46 raster do you have any of those USB items working plugged into your FR? Sep 12 10:37:02 ooh Sep 12 10:37:03 on my fr Sep 12 10:37:05 no Sep 12 10:37:35 in host mode it should Sep 12 10:37:45 (my 100mA mouse works well) Sep 12 10:39:01 cichlid02 what did you have to do to use that? just plug it up, or did you have to enable host mode by command? Sep 12 10:39:35 yeah i have to enable host mode by command Sep 12 10:40:52 a few extra devices, and WINE on FR and I'll be ready to tweak my VW with my handheld Sep 12 10:41:14 but my rubber keyboard doesn't work at all Sep 12 10:41:32 cichlid02 you have the Duraflex? Sep 12 10:41:32 and i can't figure out why Sep 12 10:41:41 no another rubber Sep 12 10:42:26 cichlid02 yeah I wanted to hook up my natural keyboard to it, was trying to get the Duraflex with correct tip for a small kb Sep 12 10:43:47 OT: whats the cheapest hardware i could get to simply have something broadcast its bluetooth name? Sep 12 10:44:43 Infoport, i use this one http://www.boutonvert.eu/bouton_vert/pictures/USB_FLEXIBLE_KEYBOARD/USB_FLEXIBLE_KEYBOARD_g.jpg Sep 12 10:45:05 zedstar I had bought several BT earpices cheaply by looking for sales/rebates. I looked on salescircular.com for sales at BestBuy,Office Max, Circuit City, etc Sep 12 10:45:09 and i never successfully typed anything .... Sep 12 10:45:52 cichlid02 does the keyboard work fine on your other computer(s)? Sep 12 10:45:56 infoport but i need something where i can manually set the bluetooth name.....ie when u do a scan it says "foobar" Sep 12 10:46:03 Infoport, yes for sure Sep 12 10:46:36 zedstar oh then those are prob too simple Sep 12 10:47:06 and logs tell me the FR load the right input device driver at plug Sep 12 10:47:49 but it stays useless Sep 12 10:47:56 zedstar perhaps look for a usb-dongle for BT that works in Linux, or does it need to be self-contained? Sep 12 10:48:28 cichlid02 does it act differently if the kb is there vs not-plugged in? Sep 12 10:48:48 infoport yeh...ideally as small as possible with option to power it........im gonna use beagleboard as they are fairly cheap but it is way over spec'ed for something that simple Sep 12 10:49:27 zedstar sorry, left a bit out. if a dongle is well supported, then some Linux app would let you broadcast your own bt-name Sep 12 10:49:43 Infoport, no it is silenty discarded (but the logs report i pluged it) Sep 12 10:50:22 infoport yeh sure im gonna use a dongle but was wondering the cheapest/smallest thing i could attach one too Sep 12 10:50:45 zedstar building a carputer? Sep 12 10:51:08 infoport no i wanna place them round a building and give out coordinates for a fake kind of gps Sep 12 10:51:33 Infoports! Sep 12 10:51:33 so I've decided for now to stick with 2008.8 update since SMS seems to be broken in FSO-M3 (using zhone) and qtopia has low volume issues. Sep 12 10:51:50 hey Dave! Sep 12 10:52:13 raster, you require additional hubs! Sep 12 10:53:36 cichlid02 I seem to remember someone complaining that a BT kb wouldnt work for them unless the virtual kb was on the screen Sep 12 10:54:01 ok thank you for the clue Sep 12 10:54:08 Dave: monitor comes with a hub... :) ands card reader :) so thats settles a 2 port hub + card reader usb device Sep 12 10:54:21 MORE Sep 12 10:54:25 :P Sep 12 10:54:32 Raster, how many usb devices DO you have? Sep 12 10:54:35 :) Sep 12 10:54:41 got 2 ports @ front, 6 @ back Sep 12 10:54:52 But is that enough!? Sep 12 10:54:53 hmm Sep 12 10:54:55 lots of them Sep 12 10:55:02 a small army Sep 12 10:55:09 muwahaha Sep 12 10:55:15 a common usb 2;0 hub can have one hundred devices attached Sep 12 10:55:18 there was a day long ago me and my nmates went "whats all this usb shit for? all these usless ports!" Sep 12 10:55:20 Please don't attack us anytime soon :) Sep 12 10:55:30 lol Sep 12 10:55:37 and on we went plugging in ps/2 & at keyboards and mice in Sep 12 10:55:54 then a day came and i went Sep 12 10:56:08 "crap.. finally 10 years later.. this usb stuff is useful!" Sep 12 10:56:09 I didnt use too much USB, but now my kb doesnt like to be adapted to PS/2, my ups has a plug, my remote has a plug, FR and camera... Sep 12 10:56:15 and now i'm running low on ports Sep 12 10:56:28 heh Sep 12 10:56:38 i have grown to love my usb Sep 12 10:56:38 my freerunners have their own sixteen port usb hub Sep 12 10:56:45 especially all the devices ihave that charge off usb Sep 12 10:56:55 god praise the whole idea of charging over usb Sep 12 10:56:58 yeah, I'm glad I don't have those Sep 12 10:57:02 fuck that, it's blasphemous :p Sep 12 10:57:07 imho devices that dont charge over usb should be delcared illegal contraband Sep 12 10:57:13 haha Sep 12 10:57:16 Dave so what devices exactly is your FREERUNNER using? Sep 12 10:57:18 fuck you raster Sep 12 10:57:35 Raster, I only use them IF they adhear to the standard (which there isn't yet), to my knowledge. Sep 12 10:57:50 So many of them suck, needing their own chargers. Sep 12 10:57:51 only devices that provide usb ports that u can plug things into to charge should be allowed to come with a powerpack Sep 12 10:57:52 :) Sep 12 10:58:02 heh Sep 12 10:58:12 Dave: just plug into your pc! Sep 12 10:58:12 Freerunner totally needs a wallwart though :\ Sep 12 10:58:16 they sit and charge happily Sep 12 10:58:17 hah Sep 12 10:58:22 and fry my PC? no thanks Sep 12 10:58:27 of course the stand-alone usb wall charger game is a mess Sep 12 10:58:28 i agree Sep 12 10:58:36 yeah :| Sep 12 10:58:37 Dave: fry? never happened to me Sep 12 10:58:57 dude, I have THREE phones, all of which use "USB" to charge... NONE of their power adapters works with the other Sep 12 10:59:00 right now 2 fr's, psp and motorola phone are charging off usb off my pc Sep 12 10:59:05 not even the usb-usbmini cable Sep 12 10:59:10 it's fucking stupid Sep 12 10:59:12 clearly future revisions of the usb standard need add support specifically for device charging Sep 12 10:59:14 oh forget the usb wall-chargers they come wiht Sep 12 10:59:17 i threw mine out Sep 12 10:59:20 haha Sep 12 10:59:22 woo Sep 12 10:59:24 go raster :P Sep 12 10:59:27 i hate all tyhese feckin dc power adaptor bricks Sep 12 10:59:33 ieatlint, CLEARLY Sep 12 10:59:38 they make we want to shoot people Sep 12 10:59:40 and the fact people will do what they want with them Sep 12 10:59:48 Dave, you haven't had enough to drink, go get more Sep 12 10:59:56 like, OOH, lookie, this plug looks like it fits in this socket,... LET'S PLUG THEM IN! Sep 12 11:00:03 i only charge by plugging into my pc or laptop Sep 12 11:00:05 and whomever wrote gtktreemodel needs a swift kick in balls Sep 12 11:00:06 ieatlint, affirmative ;p Sep 12 11:00:08 whihc works just fine Sep 12 11:00:15 sure - its slower Sep 12 11:00:18 as its only 500ma Sep 12 11:00:20 ieatlint, yeah, that too Sep 12 11:00:25 raster, but at least it works :) Sep 12 11:00:26 it should not take 8 lines of code to create a fucking drop down menu selections Sep 12 11:00:29 but hey... i got rid of my nest of dc powerpacks! Sep 12 11:00:30 Dave really? I use a generic "camera cable" for my FR and camera, leave it plugged in (got a dozen for about $.99 each) Sep 12 11:00:46 yeah, heh Sep 12 11:00:46 i'm on a mission to utterly extinguish them Sep 12 11:00:48 good job Sep 12 11:01:05 I do, however, enjoy charging freerunner batteries in thirty minutes or so :P Sep 12 11:01:06 only things that should be plugged in are ones with built-in powersupplie Sep 12 11:01:13 (monitors, pc desktop) Sep 12 11:01:15 OR laptops Sep 12 11:01:21 OR brains Sep 12 11:01:24 everything else shoudl damn well power/charge off usb Sep 12 11:01:30 BRAAAAAAAAAAAANEEEEES Sep 12 11:01:51 raster, i'm not sure that all my devices aren't like that now Sep 12 11:01:57 In other news, Rasterman takes over the internet with his superb virtual keyboard. Sep 12 11:02:08 damn forgot to plug my brain in...hell usb A/M to usb mini-B? Sep 12 11:02:13 :P Sep 12 11:02:16 but yeah, then you don't even need to fuck with different plugs/voltage/freq when travelling to charge your shit Sep 12 11:02:35 ieatlint: u got rid of all thsoe dc powerpacks? Sep 12 11:02:58 (and yes - no more fucking with voltage and crud ) Sep 12 11:03:04 as i dont travel anywhere without laptop Sep 12 11:03:11 i've got 3 montors, 4 computers and a switch plugged in... Sep 12 11:03:18 then all i need is a multie-adatpor for world power sockets for laptop Sep 12 11:03:22 nothing else, except a couple lights... oh, and a ps3 Sep 12 11:03:32 andd everything else ihave can piggyback off the laptops' power supply Sep 12 11:03:38 hell, i use a network bridge that's powered over usb Sep 12 11:03:46 ieatlint: aaah. no gadgets there Sep 12 11:03:53 ok network bridge Sep 12 11:03:54 all my gadgets are usb Sep 12 11:03:58 what about phone? Sep 12 11:04:01 pda? Sep 12 11:04:11 any external usb dvd/cd's? Sep 12 11:04:14 or usb hdd's Sep 12 11:04:17 i've got like 5 phones or something on my desk, all charge via usb Sep 12 11:04:30 (those damn 3.5" usb hdd's should damn well power over usb too!) Sep 12 11:04:37 ieatlint: excellent! Sep 12 11:04:44 you are living the dream Sep 12 11:04:45 i've en extrernal optical drive for my little laptop Sep 12 11:04:48 * raster shoots nokia Sep 12 11:04:56 and it does need a dc adapter Sep 12 11:05:02 raster, 2 of the phones are nokia Sep 12 11:05:03 why the crap did u have to make the n800 only charege via your silly powerpack Sep 12 11:05:07 i have a usb charger for them Sep 12 11:05:28 Cable modem, switch, UPS, desktop, screen, laptop, Vonage, we already need more power on the UPS for a hub (need more ethernet ports) Sep 12 11:05:32 then i've got a crapload of other things, like a bt gps which charges over usb Sep 12 11:05:39 ieatlint: aha! you have been infected by 1 dc adaptor Sep 12 11:06:14 2 if you count the adapter i have for my external ide/sata adapter Sep 12 11:06:27 although for laptop ide, it powers off usb Sep 12 11:06:29 i wish they would make desktop psu's with that pdaisy-chain power out again Sep 12 11:06:37 so u can plug the monitor(s) into it too Sep 12 11:06:53 ieatlint: yeah. 2.5" manage to work off usb Sep 12 11:06:56 hah, my main monitor uses more power than my computers Sep 12 11:06:59 but 3.5" :( Sep 12 11:07:06 ieatlint: really? Sep 12 11:07:13 30" :) Sep 12 11:07:49 so I saw that the 1000ma charging from USB can damage the hardware, which hardware and how? Sep 12 11:08:08 ieatlint: hmmm i wonder how much pwoer my pc uses... Sep 12 11:08:17 kill-a-watt Sep 12 11:08:37 ieatlint: how much does it suck? Sep 12 11:08:39 i have all my shit plugged into one... i use obscene amounts of power Sep 12 11:09:01 mines a 21" + 21" Sep 12 11:09:13 so i probably suck up 150-200w there Sep 12 11:09:31 in total i'm using 730w right now Sep 12 11:09:35 for just my computer stuff Sep 12 11:09:50 raster do you enter the commands for host mode in a terminal each time, or did you set up a script to toggle it? Sep 12 11:09:50 ouch Sep 12 11:09:56 dell says my monitor is 163w typical, 250w max Sep 12 11:10:06 i don't pay for electricity, so no worries Sep 12 11:11:01 Infoport: i dont plug usb stuff into my FR Sep 12 11:11:02 my 24" monitor uses 57w typical, 110max Sep 12 11:11:07 that's an impressive difference Sep 12 11:11:12 ieatlint: aah 57->110w for me Sep 12 11:11:22 (27") Sep 12 11:12:01 hmm Sep 12 11:12:04 similar for my 21" Sep 12 11:12:07 i've been meaning to get rid of 2 computers that i don't really use Sep 12 11:12:14 but i'm pretty lazy Sep 12 11:12:25 i dod that a long time ago in a hardware leaning binge Sep 12 11:12:30 i'm down to 1 desktop Sep 12 11:12:33 oops, cichlid02, do you enter the commands for host mode in a terminal each time, or did you set up a script to toggle it? Sep 12 11:12:43 1 media pc/server (With raid array) under the livign room tv Sep 12 11:12:48 and then a small jungle of laptops Sep 12 11:12:59 which all nicely stash away into rawers and use no space Sep 12 11:13:00 :) Sep 12 11:13:06 only really use 1 laptop primarily Sep 12 11:13:12 its nicer to lean down on hw Sep 12 11:13:39 lol... you like to show it who's boss Sep 12 11:13:52 hahaha Sep 12 11:13:58 well i meant "reduce amount of hw" Sep 12 11:14:03 lean and mean Sep 12 11:14:07 hardware-diet Sep 12 11:14:09 i need a new laptop Sep 12 11:14:22 unfortunately i've sprouted lots of little arm devices instead Sep 12 11:14:29 hey, if i have hw gps fix, does that mean i have gta02v6? Sep 12 11:14:35 or could this also be 5? Sep 12 11:14:39 i have a nearly dead dell one and an asus eeepc which is love, but i can't do any work on Sep 12 11:14:43 :p Sep 12 11:14:59 raster :P Sep 12 11:15:04 :-P Sep 12 11:15:07 i've two many arm devices :P Sep 12 11:15:19 ieatlint, myself as well Sep 12 11:15:34 in the market for a new "laptop" Sep 12 11:15:47 i'm probably going to get a thinkpad.. Sep 12 11:15:52 raster do they combine to form voltron, or something more useful? Sep 12 11:15:57 ieatlint, lenovo? Sep 12 11:16:00 yeah Sep 12 11:16:16 do you like nipples? Sep 12 11:16:20 i'm tired of dells that look like toys, i never liked toshiba.. Sep 12 11:16:23 who doesn't? Sep 12 11:16:26 :p Sep 12 11:16:33 I don't, on my computer, anyway Sep 12 11:16:46 i don't recall thinkpads having nipples Sep 12 11:16:51 ... Sep 12 11:16:58 they ALL do Sep 12 11:17:05 it's practically their fucking trademark Sep 12 11:17:09 oh, you mean in the keyboard Sep 12 11:17:15 fucking stupid mouse pointer Sep 12 11:17:18 pointing stick or whatever Sep 12 11:17:22 yeah, i like those Sep 12 11:17:40 raster: strange world, with those time differences.. heh.. good morning! Sep 12 11:17:44 what's (worse?), is that they offer both now Sep 12 11:17:50 i used to have one, before dell went from laptop to colourful plastic Sep 12 11:18:01 ieatlint haha Sep 12 11:18:07 sadly true Sep 12 11:18:21 * zedstar tweaks his nipple Sep 12 11:18:26 -_- Sep 12 11:18:30 my thinkpad has a nipple Sep 12 11:18:37 just set your computer to moan whenever you move the mouse with it Sep 12 11:19:04 Well, you certainly seem to have thought of everything, lint. Sep 12 11:19:17 yeah, well, i do that Sep 12 11:19:25 EXCEPT WHEN IT COMES TO YOUR LIBRARIES Sep 12 11:19:29 oops :x Sep 12 11:19:36 hey now Sep 12 11:19:38 ;p Sep 12 11:19:40 minus the plural Sep 12 11:19:44 haha Sep 12 11:19:45 LIBRARY Sep 12 11:19:49 only written one, have we? Sep 12 11:20:00 nah, it's rather glorious Sep 12 11:20:01 yeah, doesn't it show? :P Sep 12 11:20:04 well, getting there anyway :) Sep 12 11:20:05 hahaha Sep 12 11:20:07 :D Sep 12 11:20:20 hey, you're learning... Sep 12 11:20:23 i'm moving through with more Sep 12 11:20:30 and at the same time, learning how shitty some other things are as well Sep 12 11:21:10 oh man, the lights last night were great Sep 12 11:21:31 .6MW or something Sep 12 11:21:37 Hello chan! :-) Sep 12 11:21:42 totally a practical use of energy :P Sep 12 11:21:49 Dave, i found something else funny about nextbus with muni (maybe other agencies) Sep 12 11:21:57 haha, oh snap Sep 12 11:22:00 there's a "secret" bus "line" Sep 12 11:22:01 what now? :) Sep 12 11:22:07 the ghost bus!? Sep 12 11:22:10 "training_coach" ... Sep 12 11:22:14 :D Sep 12 11:22:20 is that the one they take rookies in? Sep 12 11:22:23 ever want to watch trainees driving buses around in circles? Sep 12 11:22:27 lol, yeah Sep 12 11:22:30 that appears "Out of Service" Sep 12 11:22:35 on the ticker Sep 12 11:22:35 nope Sep 12 11:22:47 it should say "Training Coach" ... or has when i've seen them Sep 12 11:22:54 well here, they just take 'em Out Of Service when doing that Sep 12 11:22:55 :P Sep 12 11:23:02 and just drive around Sep 12 11:23:13 but I should check that out :P Sep 12 11:23:41 i started decompiling part of the java applet they have and found that and a handful of other tidbits Sep 12 11:23:43 what is the easiest way to find out if your USB port is able to handle 1000ma charging Sep 12 11:23:43 what's worse, is when they take them out for a joy ride, they sometimes pick passengers up as well Sep 12 11:23:50 ooh goodie Sep 12 11:23:54 but also scary :P Sep 12 11:24:11 Tell me more of your interesting find Sep 12 11:24:13 "ball_park_service" is another hidden line here Sep 12 11:24:19 edistar: hahahah Sep 12 11:24:21 prjktdtnt: try it and see Sep 12 11:24:25 for football games, they run special buses out to candlestick Sep 12 11:24:26 sweet Sep 12 11:24:38 I would not have known! Sep 12 11:24:40 Dave: I prefer not to risk frying my laptop's USB port(s) Sep 12 11:24:42 prjktdtnt, dave is right, try it Sep 12 11:24:49 it won't Sep 12 11:24:57 prjktdtnt, usb has a built in power overload protection Sep 12 11:24:58 it'll either fail or it will work Sep 12 11:25:01 it'll turn off the port without damage Sep 12 11:25:11 ieatlint, not necessarily, but the freerunner does! Sep 12 11:25:14 :) Sep 12 11:25:21 which is why it takes so fucking long to charge! Sep 12 11:25:31 mine charge quickly Sep 12 11:25:32 like, oh hai, I'm a device, gimme all ur powars Sep 12 11:25:33 will the FR automatically go back to 500ma charging by unplugging and reconnecting USB? Sep 12 11:25:40 YOU BIG FREERUNNER MAN Sep 12 11:25:51 i still am not sure where mine are :( Sep 12 11:25:58 heh Sep 12 11:26:01 prjktdtnt: shouldn't it renegotiate? Sep 12 11:26:06 it does Sep 12 11:26:27 edistar: I would think so but wanted to be sure Sep 12 11:26:29 dave: thanks Sep 12 11:26:33 as far as I know if you try 1000mA and it doesn't work, it may "bail" and go to 100mA if it can't renegotiate 500 Sep 12 11:26:44 but if you reconnect it, it should do 500mA (as usual) just fine Sep 12 11:26:50 awesome :) Sep 12 11:27:01 now trying 2mA on a typical usb bus is not well advised ;p Sep 12 11:27:01 actually it should simple kill the port Sep 12 11:27:09 and your computer will register it Sep 12 11:27:17 register the kill? Sep 12 11:27:19 the kernel log should say like "power overload on port ...." Sep 12 11:27:29 oh yeah, I've gotten pages of them Sep 12 11:27:34 and yet, it still charged fine :p Sep 12 11:27:38 so something like dmesg | tail? Sep 12 11:27:43 yes Sep 12 11:27:52 huh, it isn't supposed to provide power again until you physically reconnect the device i thought Sep 12 11:28:01 heh Sep 12 11:28:03 rawk, once the opkg upgrade finishes i'll give it a try Sep 12 11:28:08 tell that to my device Sep 12 11:28:24 I hope it works, 2% of the battery is saying 15 minutes to recharge still Sep 12 11:28:31 tell it to your own device Sep 12 11:28:32 crap, I wanted to try USB host mode with my FR, but there is no > key in the 2008.8 qwerty kb Sep 12 11:28:42 haha Sep 12 11:28:46 use terminal, kthx Sep 12 11:28:58 write a script, you ninny! Sep 12 11:28:59 lol Sep 12 11:29:31 reminds me of the original keyboard for 2007.2 (multitap-pad), had no / Sep 12 11:29:38 SO USEFUL, ON A LINUX DEVICE Sep 12 11:30:11 terminal doesn't help-- that is where it is short several keys. I guess a script of ssh is the solution Sep 12 11:30:12 dave: no kidding Sep 12 11:30:17 kind of like Training Coach, in a state such as this one Sep 12 11:30:37 It's almost as bad as "40 year old Student driver - WATCH OUT MOTHERFUCKERS" weewoo Sep 12 11:30:37 Infoport: just add that key there? Sep 12 11:30:43 Infoport, connect it over wifi and ssh over wifi and save yourself a lot of trouble Sep 12 11:30:51 lindi, wise one :) Sep 12 11:31:00 Dave: and so useful on device with web browsing capabilities Sep 12 11:31:10 si-mi, haha yeah Sep 12 11:31:12 totally Sep 12 11:31:21 I had to copy & paste from another application which could produce the / Sep 12 11:31:25 si-m1: i think the problem is not that it is missing but that so few people know how to add it there :) Sep 12 11:31:30 people here were like oh snaps, look at his hacks! Sep 12 11:31:39 I'm like, uggh people, IT SHOULDN'T BE LIKE THIS! Sep 12 11:31:43 Hallo Mek :] Sep 12 11:31:52 so fix it dave Sep 12 11:32:06 Dave I do that on the 'net sometimes rather than figure out how to add an umlaut, etc Sep 12 11:32:27 ü is too bothersome, just use ue Sep 12 11:33:05 someone add that unicode snowman char to the keyboard and i'll be happy Sep 12 11:33:09 ieatlint or to cheat for the "n" with tilda, etc etc Sep 12 11:33:27 ahh deadkeys rule ... ñ Sep 12 11:33:50 hah Sep 12 11:33:52 yeah Sep 12 11:34:03 ieatlint, affirmative! Sep 12 11:34:09 aparently my laptop supports 1000ma Sep 12 11:34:13 :D Sep 12 11:34:16 sweet Sep 12 11:34:22 just don't use any other usb devices! Sep 12 11:34:41 luckily I have 2 different USB boards Sep 12 11:34:59 so I can use the phone from one side and my mouse on the other :D Sep 12 11:35:03 ☃ LINT ☃ Sep 12 11:35:08 prjktdtnt: true :P Sep 12 11:35:23 prjktdtnt, note that while your laptop may be able to put 1A through one port, it may not support 1A from one port, and 500mA from another Sep 12 11:35:25 I can imagine lint amassing a mighty snowman army Sep 12 11:35:34 inspiron 1420n Sep 12 11:35:35 the usb controller will still handle it, so no harm Sep 12 11:35:36 ieatlint, right Sep 12 11:35:52 ieatsnowmen Sep 12 11:36:10 Dave, ok, i'm renaming liblate to lib☃ Sep 12 11:36:26 :D Sep 12 11:36:33 I second the motion! Sep 12 11:37:06 can we just call the new binary app ☃ ? Sep 12 11:37:15 indeed Sep 12 11:37:18 Excellent! Sep 12 11:37:21 I approve :) Sep 12 11:37:27 welcome back, rasterman Sep 12 11:37:40 ok I give up-- where do I edit the keyboard in 2008.8? its different than OM2007.2 (got to keep us on our toes) Sep 12 11:37:54 :p Sep 12 11:37:56 raster, your keyboard rocks! Sep 12 11:38:02 no duh Sep 12 11:38:04 Or even better, how do I put the full-qwerty in the mix (of flip-kbs) Sep 12 11:38:10 if only it came as the pre-installed keyboard Sep 12 11:38:18 Infoport: indeed, this is the problem, people have trouble figuring out how to take part of the development :) Sep 12 11:38:36 Now, the question you SHOULD be asking is, where do you go to donate to Raster? :P Sep 12 11:39:56 prjktdtnt: thanks.. :) Sep 12 11:39:57 raster doesn't like donations Sep 12 11:40:00 lindi- I'd love to develop for my FR, but I keep feeling like I have to re-invent the keyboard, or re-learn a process that changed since I checked the wiki Sep 12 11:40:10 i tried to bribe him with a year's supply of beer and he brushed me off Sep 12 11:40:20 Dave: if u can donate me an extra 24hrs/day Sep 12 11:40:25 i'll take it! Sep 12 11:40:49 :) Sep 12 11:41:03 ieatlint :o Sep 12 11:41:45 I wonder what the brew would taste like, with a dead body stuffed in the still. Sep 12 11:41:54 Might add a unique taste, heh. Sep 12 11:41:58 ieatlint: why raster won't accept a years supply of beer http://xkcd.com/323/ Sep 12 11:43:12 prjktdtnt: hahahaha Sep 12 11:43:41 heh heh Sep 12 11:43:45 Xora! Sep 12 11:43:54 We see you there, guffawing to our jests! Sep 12 11:44:35 talking about unit test, probably make sense doing unit test for dbus interfaces Sep 12 11:44:48 We're going to have to have a talk, you and me, later. Specifically about those icons you said wouldn't be merged back in... to org.opemoko.dev Sep 12 11:44:51 * Dave glares Sep 12 11:46:38 what is the timeout on locations to find a fix? Sep 12 11:47:06 is there a way to put the Matchbox keyboard in, or to add mappings to the 2008.8 kbs? Sep 12 11:47:19 yup Sep 12 11:47:28 find the .desktop for the matchbox kbd Sep 12 11:47:35 then chaneg Categories to be Sep 12 11:47:52 Categories=System;Settings;Keyboard; Sep 12 11:48:06 and u'll need to get the illume "wrench" Sep 12 11:48:17 to configur eillume to run the kbd Sep 12 11:48:29 and u'll need to edit 89qtopia and disable qpe's kbd... Sep 12 11:48:35 see the mailing list for details Sep 12 11:52:54 Infoport: you just need to modify the existing keyboard? Sep 12 11:54:03 lindi- maybe I have more wrong with my install than that...I should have illume-config installed (it says I have it) but can't get the wrench either, and graphical install seems to hang Sep 12 11:54:39 wrench? Sep 12 11:56:05 lindi- the illume-config wrench icoin that appears in upper left; it doesnt appear on this install even though it says it doesnt need o reinstall Sep 12 11:57:06 Infoport: i'm not there yet, i haven't managed to build 2008.8 Sep 12 11:57:46 lindi- I'm just working from a flash of it (from early Sept, when I borked and reflashed phoned) Sep 12 11:58:13 can the freerunner boot from a usb disc-on-key? :) Sep 12 11:58:50 Infoport: i am not able to develop anything if i can't compile it Sep 12 12:00:56 /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm restart Sep 12 12:01:35 well that usually works :/ Sep 12 12:02:06 nope guess I'm in need of a left-handed spanner Sep 12 12:02:35 hello, how do i activate the GPS in FSO_milestone_III because tangogps doesn't seems to find my location when i click on autocenter... Sep 12 12:05:40 it puts me in the see near africa...and I'm in france... Sep 12 12:09:12 Gnutoo: You almost made me answer with a politically incorrect joke.. :P Sep 12 12:09:45 CM_work, mmm.... Sep 12 12:10:46 CM_work, I think i've got my neo with the hardware fix for GPS...is it compatible with the software fix? Sep 12 12:11:41 because there is an electrical component that is solded between 2 sd pins Sep 12 12:11:51 I have an old gta01, and I haven't tried the gps for a while now Sep 12 12:12:06 Gnutoo: use the zhone gps ui, and wait till you get a fix Sep 12 12:12:45 rwhitby, does zphone ui need a sim card to be in? Sep 12 12:13:04 no Sep 12 12:13:38 hardware fix and software fix are fine together Sep 12 12:14:13 rwhitby, strange...when I click on the map icon it does nothing... Sep 12 12:14:42 I re-reload it Sep 12 12:14:54 ah it works now Sep 12 12:15:03 (the ui...not the gps) Sep 12 12:22:54 what is the terminal application in OM2008.8 ? Sep 12 12:25:27 openmoko-term2..maybe Sep 12 12:25:42 or openmoko-terminal? Sep 12 12:29:02 rwhitby, still no fix... Sep 12 12:29:03 openmoko-terminal2 :-) Sep 12 12:29:31 Gnutoo: you're outside in the open air and not moving the phone in any way for 5 minutes? Sep 12 12:29:44 (with clear 360deg view of the sky) Sep 12 12:32:20 rwhitby, no i'm inside a building...but i thought it worked inside building...but less well Sep 12 12:32:47 later folks! usb host mode has given way to brain-suspend mode (and now sleep) Sep 12 12:33:07 gnutoo: no, inside building hardly work... Sep 12 12:33:36 diego__, ok...does it work in a car without external antenna? Sep 12 12:33:53 yes Sep 12 12:33:59 Gnutoo: you're unlikely to get a *first* fix inside a building. once you have a first fix, it usually continues to work inside a building if you're lucky. Sep 12 12:34:14 rwhitby, ah ok... Sep 12 12:34:14 plastic and glass are not a problem at all Sep 12 12:34:15 remember that you *must* be stationary for first fix Sep 12 12:34:24 rwhitby, ok Sep 12 12:34:29 don't even rotate around a fixed point Sep 12 12:35:15 the gps chip doesn't know where in the world you are, and needs to listen very carefully and for a long time to get the data which tells it where the sats are flying Sep 12 12:35:21 if you move, it resets the timer Sep 12 12:35:54 once it knows how to listen, it can deal with less signal Sep 12 12:35:56 rwhitby, ouch...ok Sep 12 12:47:39 hi, i want to create a sample application for the freerunner (om 2008.8), I followed these instructions: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain ... wored fine .... but i need to add some png' Sep 12 12:48:06 i placed them into the data folder .. but on the freerunner i can't find them after installing Sep 12 12:49:17 do I have to add them in Makefile.in / .am ? and where are they stored on the freerunner ? Sep 12 12:53:29 RedFlash: isn't .in generated from .am? Sep 12 12:57:53 I don't know ... but in .am I found "appicondir = $(datadir)/pixmaps" in Sep 12 12:58:28 Hi. I read the instructions to install Debian manually on Neo Freerunner, but then saw, that Id need more than the 512mb that are available on the standard sd card, and as I have not bought a larger card yet, I cannot install Debian this way. How much space do I need on the card, to do it that way, and how much space does the debian system cost all in all Sep 12 12:58:29 but this is only for the App icon ... maybe for the other images I should use a diffrent location ? Sep 12 12:58:48 http://wiki.debian.org/DebianOnFreeRunner Sep 12 12:59:08 http://wiki.debian.org/DebianOnFreeRunner = 'that way', i forgot to tell Sep 12 13:01:11 Besides I didnt find any information on how long the neo runs with debian and whether it wakes up from suspend when the phone is receiving a call Sep 12 13:01:17 anyone got an idea where i can get a package for perl-rawip? compiling from scratch should be a mess :\ Sep 12 13:04:09 ok so I installed all the proper illume pacakges and lo-and-behold there's no wrench Sep 12 13:04:44 going to reboot the phone one more time Sep 12 13:04:54 prjktdtnt: which distro ? Sep 12 13:05:06 gromez: sorry om2008.8-update Sep 12 13:05:20 baba_melone: the installer works with a 512MB card. suspending and stuff works like in the FSO image Sep 12 13:05:34 prjktdtnt: ps aux | grep illume Sep 12 13:05:47 gromez: phone is still restarting Sep 12 13:05:58 again Sep 12 13:06:02 prjktdtnt: ok :) Sep 12 13:06:22 i'm thinking it may just not have properly started illume-config Sep 12 13:06:44 or whatever writes that wrench to the gui anyway Sep 12 13:06:48 prjktdtnt: check /etc/enlightenment/default_profile Sep 12 13:07:06 ok Sep 12 13:07:27 hello fellows Sep 12 13:07:43 will something break if I just keep illume-keyboards-terminal and remove the others? Sep 12 13:07:48 hello sledgeas Sep 12 13:07:55 E_PROFILE="-profile asu" Sep 12 13:08:07 prjktdtnt: s/asu/illume/ ;) Sep 12 13:08:35 i associate with iwconfig eth0 essid (name) successfully, but neither dhclient nor udhcpc eth0 not work (Om2008.8, last update august 31, usb internt does not work -- cannot run opkg update, on zhone/debian wif(dhcp)i works without problems) Sep 12 13:08:46 don't use vi, i installed nano although I need to get emacs running on it Sep 12 13:09:02 restarting x-server now though Sep 12 13:09:15 yeah Sep 12 13:09:31 will it blend? Sep 12 13:09:41 :D Sep 12 13:09:47 :D Sep 12 13:09:48 alx: probably Sep 12 13:10:25 would be a great ad for the moko, who's putting his in? :) Sep 12 13:10:44 w00t, no more qtopia keyboard Sep 12 13:10:49 thanks gromez Sep 12 13:11:01 prjktdtnt: np :) Sep 12 13:11:39 now do I want to get GPRS working again or not...hmmmm Sep 12 13:15:19 is there anything like "libgsmd-tool" in the qtopia mobile stack? Sep 12 13:15:53 ...a pointer to documentation would be good, but so far i haven't found any documentation about the mobile stack Sep 12 13:37:53 ok, this is an easy one: how to mount NAND root fs partition whilst being booted on sd card (debian) Sep 12 13:37:55 ? Sep 12 13:38:25 sledgeas: just use mount normally? Sep 12 13:38:33 yes, what's the device for NAND? Sep 12 13:38:39 sledgeas: mtdblock* Sep 12 13:38:46 thanks! ;) Sep 12 13:46:26 without gesture utility is it possible to rotate the terminal ? Sep 12 13:46:58 for better ergonomics Sep 12 13:47:01 xrandr Sep 12 13:47:06 ok Sep 12 13:47:17 -o left or right i think Sep 12 13:47:44 lindi-: sorry i formulated the wrong question, i need a device of SDRAM 256, how do i mount it while being on SD card? Sep 12 13:47:46 even on tty ? Sep 12 13:48:00 sledgeas: SDRAM 256? Sep 12 13:48:08 SDREAM 256 MB (or 512MB) Sep 12 13:48:12 lambda: that might be tricky Sep 12 13:48:13 *SDRAM Sep 12 13:48:15 sledgeas: what's that? Sep 12 13:48:20 internal memory Sep 12 13:48:35 where Om2007.2 is initially ept Sep 12 13:48:36 kept Sep 12 13:48:41 sledgeas: you mean RAM? Sep 12 13:48:44 yes Sep 12 13:48:45 lambda: xrander does stuff to x Sep 12 13:48:49 when one receives his/her FR Sep 12 13:48:50 sledgeas: well, your kernel and applications are in RAM Sep 12 13:48:57 sledgeas: what do you want to mount from that? Sep 12 13:48:57 hmmm Sep 12 13:49:07 pardon again lmao Sep 12 13:49:10 i need some sleep :D Sep 12 13:49:26 nope, i want the internal persistent flash memory Sep 12 13:49:28 but /dev/ram exists though Sep 12 13:49:35 i finally got my usb keyboard working on X Sep 12 13:49:38 :-) Sep 12 13:49:43 lambda: sweet Sep 12 13:49:52 and on MS3 Sep 12 13:50:07 nice release ; many improvments Sep 12 13:50:44 is there any way to calibrate the touchscreen on debian build ? Sep 12 13:50:50 sledgeas: then mtdblock* Sep 12 13:50:54 hmm Sep 12 13:51:09 matholio_: is there a ts_calibrate or something? Sep 12 13:51:18 matholio_: isn't the calibration data already there in some nand partition? Sep 12 13:51:29 lindi-: but mtdblock* was cursing on -t ext2 except mtdblock5 which yielded a fs with files like wlan bt etc and lost+found/ and that's it Sep 12 13:51:46 oh, it's mtdblock6 -t jffs2 ! Sep 12 13:51:51 thanks , no problem, going to sleep :D Sep 12 13:53:45 hello again...The wifi works with which kernel? Sep 12 13:53:57 thanks, sorted. Sep 12 13:54:30 because on FSO_milestone_ii it doesn't seems to work Sep 12 13:54:34 sledgeas: file -sL /dev/mtdblock* Sep 12 13:54:37 s/II/III Sep 12 13:54:50 thanks :) Sep 12 13:55:47 Gnutoo: FYI: i am having problems with dhcp (dhclient, udhcpc -- both(!)), wifi itself works, but i'm using Om2008 of August 31st, about to upgrade Sep 12 13:56:54 sledgeas, ok thanks Sep 12 13:57:11 are you having problems with dhcps* ? Sep 12 13:58:11 Gnutoo: (PS: in debian everything works ok even with dhclient3, having old kernel (July 26(?)) and Sep 3rd updated rootfs) Sep 12 13:58:39 sledgeas, wow...so mabe i'll use debian Sep 12 13:58:58 for 100% having a working wifi, sure Sep 12 13:59:41 anyone have a link to the SVG of the openmoko logo along with the "open, mobile, free" caption? Sep 12 14:00:47 btw, any plans to get hotplug for the micro-sd? Sep 12 14:04:15 ronny, i already change the microsd while the neo is running Sep 12 14:04:50 morricone: uh, one would have to remove the battery and the sim to get to the sdcard Sep 12 14:05:15 yes Sep 12 14:05:29 is used the wallcharger Sep 12 14:05:33 *i Sep 12 14:05:38 morricone: well, thats not really hot plug Sep 12 14:05:51 it should work like anywhere Sep 12 14:06:00 no, bit it isn't a driver problem Sep 12 14:06:02 *but Sep 12 14:06:17 well, its a hardware issue Sep 12 14:10:33 Gnutoo: I had fully working wireless on Milestone2, connecting to a WPA-PSK network Sep 12 14:12:01 Tig|, ok...i tried wireless on om2008.8 and milestone3...and it didn't work even with iwconfig eth0 DartyBox_number key mykey && ifconfig eth0 192.168.1.101 && ping 192.168.1.254 Sep 12 14:12:41 Gnutoo: is that a WEP network/ Sep 12 14:12:42 ? Sep 12 14:12:53 Tig|, yes... Sep 12 14:13:09 wep with hexadecimal key Sep 12 14:13:29 no idea what is going on there then :( Sep 12 14:13:43 ok Sep 12 14:13:51 daft question you did remember to power up the wifi first :) Sep 12 14:13:58 thanks anyway...i'll try with an open wifi Sep 12 14:14:17 oops...i have forgetten to write ifconfig eth0 up at the beginning Sep 12 14:14:17 hmm Sep 12 14:22:59 sooo....FSO milestone 3....anyone tried it yet? Sep 12 14:25:57 Pyrasi: yep, it's nice, very pretty Sep 12 14:26:36 does it work well? Sep 12 14:26:43 is OM no longer selling the FR via it's website? Sep 12 14:27:03 wokrs ok for me, crashes every now and then Sep 12 14:28:20 also....does the new d-bus gps system (gypsy i guess) work with current gpsd programs (aka tangogps)? Sep 12 14:28:53 Pyrasi not sure, there is a zhone gps thing that works, but doesn't do mapping Sep 12 14:29:32 we're going to ship fso-gpsd soon Sep 12 14:29:34 compat layer Sep 12 14:29:56 it's already in git, just needs to be packaged as ipk Sep 12 14:31:56 ohh....neat Sep 12 14:32:22 yap Sep 12 14:32:34 will make it all gpsd apps work Sep 12 14:32:36 so that will be like a gpsd wrapper for the new fso gps? Sep 12 14:32:37 seamlessly :) Sep 12 14:32:38 cool Sep 12 14:32:44 yep Sep 12 14:32:56 I'm excited to flash it Sep 12 14:32:58 looks like gpsd, uses fso gpsd with increased precision et. al. under the hood Sep 12 14:34:25 I'll flash it when i get out of class......distributed operating systems is sooo boring =/ Sep 12 14:34:30 hehe Sep 12 14:34:39 ya, i always found that quite esoteric Sep 12 14:35:08 I really like the new yaml rules interface Sep 12 14:35:24 i cant wait to mess with that Sep 12 14:35:35 ya, that's so powerful Sep 12 14:35:45 we need to see what kind of rules we should provide Sep 12 14:35:52 will increase that based on user needs Sep 12 14:36:05 s/rules/descriptional complexity/ Sep 12 14:37:09 Why yaml btw? Sep 12 14:37:28 So were you able to get the suspend working well? I remember that was the last thing you were working on....and i figured that would be a doozy that would take a while....I was impressed when it was released today Sep 12 14:38:01 CM_work: good question. one of the team came up with that. ask charlie Sep 12 14:38:21 we just reverted back to the stable kernel Sep 12 14:38:24 was using andy kernel before Sep 12 14:38:31 It's nice, but so far I like json more Sep 12 14:38:36 which never woke up :/ Sep 12 14:38:54 i don't have a clue about any of these languages Sep 12 14:38:59 but it's not set in stone Sep 12 14:39:06 lets get some experience Sep 12 14:39:12 The yaml.org homepage is in yaml Sep 12 14:39:14 then check whether yaml is up to the task Sep 12 14:39:21 mickey|mdd08: i failed finding that gconf sucessor, got any more pointers? Sep 12 14:39:24 So you can see what it looks like :) Sep 12 14:39:58 well, yaml is kinda bad Sep 12 14:40:03 full of special cases Sep 12 14:40:10 json is more normalized Sep 12 14:40:53 ronny: called dconf Sep 12 14:41:01 author is Ryan something Sep 12 14:42:26 ryan lortie Sep 12 14:42:46 ronny: That's what I've heard too Sep 12 14:43:27 like i said Sep 12 14:43:28 it's open Sep 12 14:43:33 charlie even wanted to use python Sep 12 14:43:39 but i don#t want a full language Sep 12 14:43:45 for the rules Sep 12 14:44:02 as we might want to go to more C Sep 12 14:44:13 and then we need a python interpreter in C embedded Sep 12 14:44:21 Heh Sep 12 14:44:29 KISS is always good Sep 12 14:44:35 *nod* Sep 12 14:44:40 just not too simple Sep 12 14:44:46 so we need to check whether we can express our ideas in yalm Sep 12 14:44:55 or whether it's too limiting Sep 12 14:44:56 dunno Sep 12 14:45:47 hi Sep 12 14:45:56 Hello Sep 12 14:46:01 is there a date set for milestone 4? (sorry is this is a tired question) Sep 12 14:46:25 also is anyone else having problems viewing videos in youtube? Sep 12 14:46:51 oh the freerunner? Sep 12 14:46:54 on^ Sep 12 14:46:58 khaije1, with gnash or with mplayer? Sep 12 14:47:35 i have the adobe player installed, the videos just don't load, i'm just wondering if it's working for anyone else, anyone at all.. Sep 12 14:48:02 btw....does FSO wake up from suspend on incoming sms/call? Sep 12 14:48:58 khaije1, adobe binaries won't work on the freerunner because they are compiled for x86... Sep 12 14:49:17 haha, sorry, i meant on a pc :) Sep 12 14:49:23 ohhhhh Sep 12 14:50:15 well...class is over...bye all Sep 12 14:50:33 mickey|mdd08: Had to read up some on it. Wikipedia says "JSON syntax is nearly a subset of YAML and most JSON documents can be parsed by a YAML parser." Sep 12 14:51:13 ok, need to move to central station Sep 12 14:51:18 gonna catch my train to Frankfurt Sep 12 14:51:21 cu later Sep 12 14:51:24 later Sep 12 15:04:47 Ok, so what's the magic to being able to bring up some sort of GUI for SMS in FSO MS3? Or am I missing something, and there is no GUI yet? Sep 12 15:13:10 Hmm... it doesn't actually suspend when it puts the message in the log file: INFO IDLE STATE = SUSPEND Sep 12 15:13:28 * mwester wonders where the suspend logic is in zhone Sep 12 15:13:35 mwester you click on the rollerdex type icon irrc Sep 12 15:13:37 iirc Sep 12 15:13:59 then use the middle button at the bottom Sep 12 15:14:14 mwester: that does not mean suspend, as in "apm -s". it’s just a name for an inanctivity state Sep 12 15:14:41 nomeata: that's a bummer. Sep 12 15:15:01 mwester: you want automatic suspend? hmm. as far as I know, you’ll have to hack that yourself. Sep 12 15:15:27 I was rather hoping I could use MS3 as a working image to use to debug the kernel suspend/resume stuff, since there are no other images that work right. :( Sep 12 15:15:32 Oh well. Sep 12 15:15:42 mwester: well, you can suspend with the power button Sep 12 15:16:13 mwester: just hold it for more than one or two seconds. Sep 12 15:16:45 I wonder if folks are not implementing suspend, because they are waiting for better kernel support -- while the kernel folks wait for an image that uses it, so that they can make the kernel work better with it. (Manual suspend is inadequate; doesn't test real-life suspend/resume scenarios) Sep 12 15:19:55 Tig|: The rollodex thingy lets me enter contact info (name and number) but I don't see where it lets me send an SMS. The letter icon doesn't do anything, so that can't be it. Sep 12 15:20:15 hang on will get my moko :) Sep 12 15:20:55 it is the letters one Sep 12 15:20:56 freesmartphone.org: 03mail 07zhone * r660eadb4c5f4 10/src/zhone: Also look in the current path for zhone.edj Sep 12 15:21:15 then press the four squares button in the bottom middle Sep 12 15:21:33 The letters icon does nothing. Sep 12 15:21:57 the one with the letters and the paperclip ? Sep 12 15:21:57 Ok, well, clearly something not right. I guess I'll send in some debug info Sep 12 15:22:02 That's the one. Sep 12 15:22:12 that will then bring up and empty screen Sep 12 15:22:16 as there are no messages Sep 12 15:22:31 Nope, stays on the main screen. Sep 12 15:22:43 hmmm FR or Neo? Sep 12 15:22:58 FR Sep 12 15:23:12 I have milestone 3 on the FR here and it works Sep 12 15:23:49 it is a pita to use imho but it works Sep 12 15:24:09 you have to have the numbers in the addressbook to use it though Sep 12 15:27:27 The problem with the SMS and concacts view is that it is now only shown when registration works Sep 12 15:28:04 which is not perfect. It should rather disable sending SMS and dialing if it can not register, but still let me have a look at the message book Sep 12 15:34:12 freesmartphone.org: 03mail 07zhone * r71fc58fd4d5c 10/src/zhone: Retreive SMS and contacs even when registration fails Sep 12 15:34:21 ok, fixed now :) Sep 12 15:34:41 :) Sep 12 15:35:32 :) Yeah, but since the feeds are not in sync with the image, one can't upgrade! Sep 12 15:36:00 well, I think I’ll put out a new debian image with my changes :-) Sep 12 15:36:02 I'll get a new image from bearstech when it gets built. Sep 12 15:36:43 (but I’ll wait for some of the real devs to see what I have done. Maybe they’ll shudder with horror and revert it) Sep 12 15:37:39 In the meantime, I'll flash a kernel with some proper GSM debugging support, and see if there's something else going on under the covers with registration with MS3. Sep 12 15:40:32 mwester: gsm debugging support? Sep 12 15:40:42 nomeata: what's the deal with the fso-frameworkd regressions? Sep 12 15:41:00 lindi-: which regression do you mean? Sep 12 15:41:25 lindi-: http://moko.mwester.net/nspy.html Sep 12 15:42:46 lindi-: the activation of the SMS and contacts menu entry in zhone is not very robust, but otherwise it seems fine. Sep 12 15:43:09 oh, and we lost zhone’s status information, because we still don’t have illume Sep 12 15:43:14 is anyone here using FSO on an 1973 ? Sep 12 15:43:53 no sms here either Sep 12 15:44:19 nomeata: ah, i hear that sms did not work at all Sep 12 15:44:22 |hama| told me yesterday that he got smses, but they took hours to arrive Sep 12 15:45:08 (which sounds as if it would be a cell provider issue, but I'm just reporting what I heard) Sep 12 15:47:29 It doesn't like to stay registered; it's reregistering with the network every few seconds (like some of the other images do): http://pastebin.com/d4b30c1fa Sep 12 15:47:39 at&t Sep 12 15:47:46 no sms Sep 12 15:48:06 was nomeata talking about fsoIII? Sep 12 15:49:50 brian_: no SMS button active, or sending/receiving SMS fails? Sep 12 15:50:36 thats my problem Sep 12 15:50:54 brian_: eh, which one now? Sep 12 15:51:05 well wait Sep 12 15:51:32 the button has never been active Sep 12 15:51:53 segistering now Sep 12 15:52:30 enlightnment seg'd Sep 12 15:53:36 brian_: then you can try out this patch: http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=zhone.git;a=commit;h=71fc58fd4d5cfd5e56bcb6e32d1603bee9e21ec1 Sep 12 15:57:11 The version of numptypysics in FSO-m2, is that the released version 0.2, or a later one? Sep 12 15:59:41 heh Sep 12 15:59:49 10:34:16 up 4 days, 3:21, 1 user, load average: 0.43, 0.47, 0.40 Sep 12 16:00:52 yes the sms box never opens up an im on at&t Sep 12 16:02:55 the sms button just blinks slightly where the buttons that do work stay on 1 second Sep 12 16:03:27 Hey. I read something about an "echo fix" on the qtopia page. Any info on what that is? Sep 12 16:10:31 Ko_deZ: someone found some proprietary commands, AT%SOMETHING, that turn on echo suppression Sep 12 16:10:59 Ko_deZ: If you send those commands before each call, and get the volume levels right, apparently the echo goes away Sep 12 16:12:40 wurp2|working: That is nice. Did not make much of a difference in Dubai though. Maybe I have to do a full reflash of my phone? I just did the upgrade thing. Sep 12 16:13:26 Ko_deZ: There were two different fixes; I'm not sure if both are in there or not. Sep 12 16:13:51 Ko_deZ: The initial command worked for a lot of people, but some guy still had issues, and he found another command that got rid of his issues. Sep 12 16:14:08 Two fixes. Both doing the same thing, or something else entirely? Sep 12 16:14:14 Ko_deZ: I would think upgrade would work fine.. Sep 12 16:14:28 except the obvious common thing, fixing the echo =) Sep 12 16:14:43 They just issue two different commands. There are 4 or 5 commands having to do with echo suppression/cancellation Sep 12 16:14:46 Right. Maybe my provider where causing some echo then. Sep 12 16:15:14 well tango reports me running 67 an im setting still Sep 12 16:15:40 I dunno whether you need to issue different ones for different networks, or issue both all the time, or what Sep 12 16:15:45 Okay. That sounds like a good solution. I was considering putting a little effort into making a filter of some sort to do the same. Hardware doing the work is better, and I presume it is also with less lag. Sep 12 16:17:41 ok.. time to try out ms3 Sep 12 16:18:48 wow...in FSO_III i typed mi[tab] (wanted minicom)and got Mickey's Term V2.9.1 @ /dev/pts/5...and I can type AT commands...but does Zhone can still receive call when i do this? Sep 12 16:19:17 Gnutoo: use cli-frameworkd Sep 12 16:19:36 lindi-, ok thanks Sep 12 16:19:59 I just got the freerunner and installed the 2008.8 image from 09.03 to sd card to see if it works any better. It seems to have awful electronic buzzing noice all over the mic input so other end can barely hear me... this bug wasn't present in the sw image the phone came with (2007.2?) Sep 12 16:20:06 I wonder if it's something known ? Sep 12 16:20:40 i wonder alot of other things:( Sep 12 16:22:02 lindi-, what python class does implement the access to the phonebook on sim? Sep 12 16:24:21 Gnutoo: freesmartphone.org has api docs Sep 12 16:24:46 lindi-, ah ok...i'll look at it because doing dir() isn't great Sep 12 16:33:59 hadara september 08 was ok Sep 12 16:34:13 mmm...I think that my contacts are inside my old phone memory... Sep 12 16:35:28 blender time Sep 12 16:40:07 <|hama|> http://my-distribution.org/ down? Sep 12 16:45:18 Hi Ive got a question concerning wlan of the neo freerunner Sep 12 16:45:49 <|hama|> can some1 check if http://my-distribution.org/ is down? Sep 12 16:45:52 Its extremely slow for me although Im quite near to the accesspoint and i should have 1024 kbit/s downstream Sep 12 16:46:18 but I dont get beyond 1.8 kb/s = 14 kbit/s Sep 12 16:46:44 yeah, it is down Sep 12 16:46:55 <|hama|> baba_melone: r Sep 12 16:47:02 <|hama|> err, thx Sep 12 16:47:05 or at least I cant establish a connection although the host name is resolved Sep 12 16:48:27 <|hama|> baba_melone: sry cant help with your speed-prob... is it much faster using network via usb? Sep 12 16:49:04 oh god how much time the backup of rootfs takes.. Sep 12 16:49:31 havent tried usb yet Sep 12 16:49:37 <|hama|> Bill: so you can take a bath weanwhile? :P Sep 12 16:49:55 too long way to go to turn my laptop into a router Sep 12 16:50:01 20 minutes and still going Sep 12 16:50:27 <|hama|> baba_melone: would be intresting how fast this wil be... wifi is faster than usb, thats what i feel here... Sep 12 16:51:09 |hama| how fast your wifi connection Sep 12 16:51:29 <|hama|> Bill: i have heared that the freerunner was fully concepted during flashing the gta01... Sep 12 16:52:10 lindi-, can it retrive previously accepted phonecalls? or is it inside the PIM api that isn't programmed yet? Sep 12 16:52:32 <|hama|> baba_melone: how can i test this now? FR is connected through usb now.... Sep 12 16:52:38 |hama|: you sound like jeremy clarkson Sep 12 16:53:05 <|hama|> Bill: wtf is jeremy clarkson? mom, google will help... Sep 12 16:53:50 "some say that it was disained while they flashed gta01 and some say that one one day it will be able to call.. all we know is - it's called the Freerunner" Sep 12 16:54:11 <|hama|> :)) Sep 12 16:59:46 anyone else encountering my wlan problem Sep 12 17:01:26 freesmartphone.org: 03mail 07zhone * r444fb114fb79 10/src/zhone: retab my recent code to follow fso style Sep 12 17:19:58 anyone...how is it possible to retrive the missed calls in FSO? even with cli-framework or AT commands... Sep 12 17:20:52 no, nothing is recording missed calls Sep 12 17:20:59 should be a simple python app though Sep 12 17:21:06 just listen for events Sep 12 17:21:22 and record if 'incoming' is followed by 'release', without 'active' in between Sep 12 17:22:59 DOES SOMEBODY KNOW HOW TO MAKE SCREENSHOTS on Openmoko under OM 2007.2 ? Sep 12 17:23:36 drac2000, press the aux button? Sep 12 17:23:49 What opkg feeds should I be using with qtopia? Sep 12 17:25:49 Thanks a lot Sep 12 17:26:06 does somebody know where the caps lock key is on the Openmoko? Sep 12 17:26:08 it is obvious and i was looking for it for a while :-( Sep 12 17:26:19 slide finger up/down to change Sep 12 17:26:23 drac2000, :D Sep 12 17:26:31 thks again Sep 12 17:26:38 happy to help Sep 12 17:27:07 XorA: that was just an ironic way of telling drac2000 to not write in caps Sep 12 17:27:35 hehe Sep 12 17:34:45 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r78e5cc381ac6 10/odeviced/README: modify README Sep 12 17:38:22 hmh.. no service with ms3 Sep 12 17:39:30 I've got wifi...i can ping the encrypted router...but i can't add a default route...strange....and i can ssh from the wifi to my phone...the cable is disconnected... Sep 12 17:41:36 ah...this time i think it's working...i've not anymore the resolving message Sep 12 17:54:36 tangogps on fso ms3 need gllin for neo1973? Sep 12 17:54:53 sure Sep 12 17:56:42 and i have to configure gypsy for using /tmp/nmea? Sep 12 17:57:14 IIRC it's getting start automagically Sep 12 17:57:15 rwhitby: ? Sep 12 17:57:53 couse i've downloaded the last image, but i'vent find gllin on iy Sep 12 17:57:56 *it Sep 12 17:58:55 yep, that's expected Sep 12 17:59:01 you need to download gllin seperately Sep 12 17:59:07 click-through license Sep 12 18:00:04 ok, thx Sep 12 18:00:22 i put my neo outside my window now ^^ Sep 12 18:09:42 grawr Sep 12 18:09:44 FSO Sep 12 18:09:48 go go go Sep 12 18:10:35 a kingdom for someone who yanks sysinit Sep 12 18:13:24 okay.. ms3 is weird.. Sep 12 18:16:11 Weird? :p Sep 12 18:16:23 as in.. gsm stack Sep 12 18:16:32 o_O Sep 12 18:16:34 bananas? Sep 12 18:16:41 What, it's not working for you? Sep 12 18:16:49 Furthermore, it's changed? o_O Sep 12 18:17:17 2s ttst call went fine Sep 12 18:17:19 test Sep 12 18:17:59 3rd started out.. and then came aweful screech and after that i can't make any calls Sep 12 18:18:29 and the gsm network registration takes for ages Sep 12 18:18:43 * mickey|ICE971 appreciating logs Sep 12 18:18:49 and it doesn't have decent PIM database backend Sep 12 18:18:55 gsm network registration is slow... that's the calypso Sep 12 18:19:07 mickey|ICE971: can you point me to some log path? Sep 12 18:19:23 no, you need to enalbe the logs first Sep 12 18:19:28 see my announcement posting Sep 12 18:19:29 last section Sep 12 18:19:33 sec Sep 12 18:19:58 you can also chose debug levels and destinations on the fly (see mdbus wiki page) Sep 12 18:20:55 hi, is libsdl not in the Om2008.8 feed? opkg doesn't seem to find it. Sep 12 18:20:56 can i set the destination staticli to /var/log/zhone or smthng? Sep 12 18:21:32 destination atm. only via dbus Sep 12 18:21:39 or you can edit the start script Sep 12 18:21:47 uhh.. okay Sep 12 18:21:47 and pipe output into a file Sep 12 18:21:51 rgr Sep 12 18:22:00 most important is log_level = DEBUG though Sep 12 18:22:14 and the stratup script is... ? Sep 12 18:22:37 /etc/init.d/frameworkd Sep 12 18:22:53 okay.. Sep 12 18:23:01 let's get some logs then Sep 12 18:23:07 good Sep 12 18:24:21 Hey, how can I tell qpe to scan only /media/card/data/ on startup? I've thousands of open-street-maps pngs on it and it takes ages to scan at every boot :/ Sep 12 18:26:24 I've tried to set the path for the card in /opt/Qtopia/etc/default/Trolltech/Storage.conf to /media/card/data, but it scans nothing then Sep 12 18:27:42 Hi, I have routing problem caused by the fact that I cant reach my Neo Freerunner at another ip than 192.168.0.202, I cannot change the ip, not temporarily not in the /etc/network/interfaces file wihtout loosing ssh access Sep 12 18:27:58 I can still ping, but not use ssh Sep 12 18:28:34 distro? Sep 12 18:28:52 Om2008.8 Sep 12 18:29:03 Kernel IP routing table Sep 12 18:29:03 Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface Sep 12 18:29:03 192.168.0.1 * 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 eth0 Sep 12 18:29:03 192.168.0.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 usb0 Sep 12 18:29:03 192.168.0.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth0 Sep 12 18:29:03 default 192.168.0.1 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0 Sep 12 18:29:09 these are my current route Sep 12 18:29:10 s Sep 12 18:29:15 i think that's by default Sep 12 18:29:23 yeah Sep 12 18:29:31 but my wlan is in the same subnet Sep 12 18:29:49 which is quite annoying as I get routing probs then Sep 12 18:29:50 check dropbear config Sep 12 18:29:52 perhaps it's compiled in, dunno Sep 12 18:30:02 although it works now, but very slow Sep 12 18:30:09 takes 200 ms to ping my router Sep 12 18:30:14 (via wlan) Sep 12 18:33:27 Ok, calypso problem: same with all combinations of FSO-3 and 2008.8 and Qtopia images, GTA01 and GTA02, AT&T and T-mobile SIMS: The calypso registers, then reports a disconnect 30 secs (+/- 2 seconds) later, re-registers in 3 secs (+/- 1 second) -- cycle repeats for inifinity. Sep 12 18:34:02 Anyone else see similar issues, or is this some quirk of geography? (too much nickel in the gravel beneath my home?) Sep 12 18:34:20 mwester: not that periodically Sep 12 18:34:31 but yes.. i've seen reregs quite often Sep 12 18:35:42 is fso also using the boots flash boot screen? Sep 12 18:36:02 It's like clockwork here -- I spent this morning crunching log files, and have a full page of timings written down. It's seems reasonable that there's something not in sync here; some setting that I suspect can be tweaked -- maybe the cell towers here don't broadcast as often as the calypso expects to see a beacon or something? Sep 12 18:36:06 btw, im running in qemu, is it possible to use gta02 images with gat01 qemu? Sep 12 18:36:08 Id just need to delete the routes to the subnet as i dont need them Sep 12 18:36:17 but then im getting an error from route Sep 12 18:36:18 mwester: #1024 Sep 12 18:36:27 route delete 192.168.0.0 dev eth0 Sep 12 18:36:28 route: SIOCDELRT: No such process Sep 12 18:36:34 which I dont understand Sep 12 18:36:47 why cant I just delete those conflicting routes Sep 12 18:36:53 XorA: Thanks. Nice number for a ticket, too. Sep 12 18:37:24 mwester: phone + sim combo I had that did it went back to .tw, on a different phone same SIM it didnt happen Sep 12 18:38:03 That's depressing reading... :( Sep 12 18:38:13 mwester: mickeyl has a collection of phones that do it :-( Sep 12 18:38:35 I have two GTA01's and a GTA02 that do it, with two different SIMS from two different carriers. :( Sep 12 18:39:02 thats a first report of a GTA01 doing it Sep 12 18:39:04 baba_melone, route delete -net 192.168.0.0/24 eth0 ? Sep 12 18:39:34 baba_melone, I think that means that the route you're asking to delete isn't there. type-o? Sep 12 18:40:07 mwester: oh no, some of mickeys are gta01 devices Sep 12 18:40:08 or perhaps, ala darkjames, you have to be more specific (include netmask) Sep 12 18:40:16 and mentioning mickey|ICE971 :-D Sep 12 18:41:00 ? Sep 12 18:41:10 mickey|ICE971: mwester has another 3 #1024 failures Sep 12 18:41:10 Doesn't look hopeful that it'll be fixed, after all this time. There's also been no dialog/discussion on the MLs that would indicate that anyone is still working with the GSM firmware anymore. Sep 12 18:41:17 baba_melone, however i think it not what you want to do. Sep 12 18:41:50 anyway.. seems like somethings broken on mine Sep 12 18:42:19 framework won't get connection to modem anymore.. Sep 12 18:42:40 retrys in a 2 sec loop Sep 12 18:43:17 mwester: yep. #1024 seems to be the major showstopper for some people and at this point of time i don't see any solution Sep 12 18:43:52 (apart from Sep 12 18:43:57 #666, which is another killer bug for some people) Sep 12 18:44:02 mwester: can you help out concerning alarm entries, i got one which wakes up my neo at 18:30 and boots it, there is an entry /proc/devices/rtc where i can see it Sep 12 18:44:55 * mwester wonders if there is any correlation of killer bugs and significance of bug numbers. Sep 12 18:45:10 i thought the same Sep 12 18:45:14 hello, how do I enter a 0033/+33 number in zhone? because i enter the name, it's fine,then i enter this number and it become unresponsive trough the UI(not ssh) and exit without adding the number in the phonebook Sep 12 18:45:15 hehe Sep 12 18:45:18 2^10 Sep 12 18:45:30 and the magic 666 Sep 12 18:45:52 and someone who wants to enter alot of 3's Sep 12 18:46:27 anyone with some knowledge on atd? Sep 12 18:46:41 .. and I cant start a phonenumber with plain 0 just 00 Sep 12 18:47:35 anywhere i can download updated OM2007.2 images .. openmoko links r dead Sep 12 18:49:02 darkjames: sry, have been afk Sep 12 18:49:18 of course I have tried what youve told me to Sep 12 18:49:40 no it doesnt work, I get this error no matter how many arguments I bypass Sep 12 18:51:41 baba_melone, -net and netmask is important. Sep 12 18:52:26 and in zhone dialer single digit is never shown... Sep 12 18:52:48 s/is/are/ Sep 12 18:52:49 darkjames meant: baba_melone, -net and netmask are important. Sep 12 18:53:05 hm yeah, no I managed to delete the routes Sep 12 18:53:28 but pinging the wlan router still causes an immense latency Sep 12 18:53:41 root@om-gta02:~# ping 192.168.0.1 Sep 12 18:53:41 PING 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1): 56 data bytes Sep 12 18:53:41 64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: seq=0 ttl=254 time=89.895 ms Sep 12 18:53:41 64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: seq=1 ttl=254 time=184.984 ms Sep 12 18:53:41 64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: seq=2 ttl=254 time=613.562 ms Sep 12 18:53:41 64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: seq=3 ttl=254 time=12.378 ms Sep 12 18:53:43 64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: seq=4 ttl=254 time=191.425 ms Sep 12 18:53:45 64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: seq=5 ttl=254 time=290.276 ms Sep 12 18:53:47 thats too much Sep 12 18:54:14 root@om-gta02:~# route Sep 12 18:54:14 Kernel IP routing table Sep 12 18:54:14 Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface Sep 12 18:54:14 192.168.0.1 * 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 eth0 Sep 12 18:54:14 192.168.0.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth0 Sep 12 18:54:14 default 192.168.0.1 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0 Sep 12 18:54:20 now my routes look like this Sep 12 18:54:27 baba_melone: I think the wireless driver is quite buggy Sep 12 18:54:38 Ive noticed that too Sep 12 18:54:46 you should use pastebin Sep 12 18:54:47 there's also the issue where you can only connect once Sep 12 18:54:59 even though I think that's fixed now Sep 12 18:55:01 It got me a rate of 65,535 M several times Sep 12 18:55:16 jaj: yeah, that works Sep 12 18:55:24 baba_melone, or you should be ignored by a lot of people Sep 12 18:55:46 its really the latency that frightens me Sep 12 18:55:58 but the routes are okay now, arent they? Sep 12 18:56:11 did atheros actually release the full hardware documentation for the chip? Sep 12 18:57:00 i don't think the did or ever will Sep 12 18:57:09 bastards Sep 12 18:57:38 an openmoko dev told me last summer that they said they would release it Sep 12 19:01:38 www.pastebin.com Sep 12 19:05:15 bogomoko Sep 12 19:06:26 So, what's the story? 2008.8 and FSO3 mutually blow? Wait, we already knew this :) Sep 12 19:06:50 Sadly enough. Sep 12 19:07:01 * Dave frowns in mwester's direction. Sep 12 19:07:03 if i want to make moko apps can i use the toolchain to build to 2007 2008 and fso? Sep 12 19:07:09 fat an dirty is next Sep 12 19:07:15 or do i need different toolchains? Sep 12 19:07:17 oh great -_- Sep 12 19:07:23 it'll be like fedora on the phone Sep 12 19:07:24 :D Sep 12 19:07:36 think? Sep 12 19:07:56 that s not good Sep 12 19:08:06 i no like fedora Sep 12 19:08:57 fso3 was not impressive Sep 12 19:09:01 Well we don't like you :p Sep 12 19:09:10 is it possible to install gtk (and gtk apps by that same means) on the qtopia distrib? Sep 12 19:09:11 but they are gaining i think Sep 12 19:09:31 i knew that Sep 12 19:09:33 jaj, I don't see how Sep 12 19:10:08 but somebodys got to crack that whip Sep 12 19:10:08 all those reactions about UI make me sick Sep 12 19:10:21 it looks i'm going to release forthcoming versions as command line images Sep 12 19:10:26 perhaps then people get the point Sep 12 19:10:32 *shrug* Sep 12 19:11:17 :D Sep 12 19:11:31 i know this is a dev phone device im not trying to disscount anyones hours of work i just say what i see Sep 12 19:11:34 * Dave puts on his Indiana Jones style hat, and grabs a whip Sep 12 19:11:43 really, it's amazing, i get 0% comment on the dbus APIs Sep 12 19:11:54 that's not good. people missing out their chance Sep 12 19:12:02 dbus - heh Sep 12 19:12:23 mickey|ICE971: sorry, atm i just lack time due to exams/projects Sep 12 19:12:30 i use all the images i can find Sep 12 19:12:34 mickey|ICE971: do you know how i could see return values of dbus calls with dbus-monitor? Sep 12 19:12:58 --print-return Sep 12 19:13:01 or so Sep 12 19:13:03 but i'd advise using mdbus Sep 12 19:13:10 ah, no, dbus-monitor Sep 12 19:13:28 no idea on that, (thought dbus-send) Sep 12 19:17:55 D-block! o/ Sep 12 19:18:29 Chocky Sep 12 19:19:29 mickey|ICE971: dbus-monitor yes Sep 12 19:23:53 in the past I got the impression that people preferred using a stylus with the neo freerunner with openmoko, is that still the case? Sep 12 19:25:07 not me, all UI software I'm writing these days (not that it would be a lot) has big fingersize buttons Sep 12 19:26:46 psymin: everyday use should still be with fingers Sep 12 19:26:52 at least for me Sep 12 19:27:06 stylus is nice for terminal and stuff Sep 12 19:27:14 cool Sep 12 19:27:56 hmm, I mostly use the terminal so yeah, the stylus is cool :) Sep 12 19:28:42 this is probably a common question but I didn't see it in the FAQ, when can the world hope to see 'consumer' versions? Sep 12 19:30:54 i'm having troubles. i've been trying to flash my freerunner using the online guides, in windows, using dfu-util. i've been trying to flash different things, but the upload only goes on a little bit or none at all, and it would result in a dfu_download error -5... could anybody help? Sep 12 19:31:37 im a consumer an im happy with what i got especially being i can put whatever i want on it an the choices are getting much much better than when i recieved the freerunner Sep 12 19:34:17 don't quote me on that, but I think no matter what marketing wants to tell you, consumer ready software is not the priority atm. Sep 12 19:34:26 atm. it's still diversity mode Sep 12 19:34:43 yea an it is working Sep 12 19:34:44 i.e. showing broad what's possible with a free device like that Sep 12 19:34:46 cool, could I use the phone for calls and sms .. reliably? Sep 12 19:35:07 reliability is relative Sep 12 19:35:13 hehe Sep 12 19:35:14 fso seems to be stable enough for lots of people, qtopia as well Sep 12 19:35:34 qtopia is relatively stable.. Sep 12 19:35:42 on at&t ive never had an sms either way Sep 12 19:35:42 I've got an iPhone currently .. (work phone) .. and I'm thinking of getting a freerunner for personal use Sep 12 19:35:53 <3 SMS Sep 12 19:35:55 mandatory Sep 12 19:36:15 sms is the most expensive communication medium in existance Sep 12 19:36:17 *nod* Sep 12 19:36:20 good combination Sep 12 19:36:23 :D Sep 12 19:36:32 with 2008.9 i get sms an send Sep 12 19:37:43 Ahh, so it sounds like SMS is still bleeding edge for openmoko on a freerunner? Sep 12 19:39:13 well Sep 12 19:39:37 it at least mostly works for me on the default 2007.2 image... Sep 12 19:39:50 or whatever the number was Sep 12 19:40:22 Why was the name changed from neo1973 ? Sep 12 19:42:01 is there a quick way to make the mic louder? everyone has been complaining about how quiet i am Sep 12 19:42:06 probably because it's a different device Sep 12 19:43:19 Hey ;-) Sep 12 19:44:17 solved my own problem.. when flashing firmware... never use a USB extension cord... Sep 12 19:45:11 :-D Sep 12 19:46:35 why was it called 1973? reference to the year? Sep 12 19:48:02 the inventor of the mobile phone, Martin Cooper, made the first call in 1973 Sep 12 19:49:05 classy.. makes me like openmoko even more XD Sep 12 19:49:27 neat Sep 12 19:49:29 the next one will be called 1984 Sep 12 19:49:48 the year that changed mobile communication Sep 12 19:51:51 but 1984 would have to come with a camera ;) Sep 12 19:54:11 and multitouch :) Sep 12 19:54:16 heya Sep 12 19:55:18 yeah 1984 would definitely need a camera! :) Sep 12 19:58:29 btw is there a wikipage about 1984 (phone) Sep 12 19:59:08 FSO 3 doesn't have python-pygtk in their default feeds. Anyone know if there are some safe feeds I can add? Sep 12 20:01:30 Hello; I'm just playing a bit with FDOM image; is it usual that the SMSesare unreadable? Sep 12 20:02:32 (e.g. just gibberish characters instead of normal text Sep 12 20:06:20 fso fso fso Sep 12 20:06:34 everyone applaud mickey on the great dbus work :P Sep 12 20:06:46 it's so good, don't you all want to interface with it ;p Sep 12 20:09:37 Dave: is there any image which uses FSO? (instead of FSO image itself, which doesn't seem to be recommended for use) Sep 12 20:12:10 why not? Sep 12 20:42:01 hello, i want games on my freerunner...on FSO_III...so where could i find the openembedded source of the milestone III so i can compile wesnoth and others games....by the way is there all deps of duke nukem 3d on the milestone III? Sep 12 20:42:29 for wesnoth I need: * libsdl-net-1.2-0 (>= 1.2.7) * libboost-iostreams1.33.1 (>= 1.33.1) * Sep 12 20:44:41 Gnutoo: OE source? Sep 12 20:44:59 edistar, ywa Sep 12 20:45:02 edistar, yes Sep 12 20:45:20 edistar, where does the oe tree of FSO_III lives? Sep 12 20:45:21 Gnutoo: it's based on angstrom Sep 12 20:45:34 edistar, i know but the build system is openembedded... Sep 12 20:45:34 Gnutoo: check git.freesmartphone.org Sep 12 20:45:41 edistar, thanks Sep 12 20:45:48 it should all be in openembedded.dev Sep 12 20:46:39 edistar, the problem is that I want to build against the stable FSO_III not a live target... Sep 12 20:47:15 Gnutoo: then you need to set the right rev Sep 12 20:48:07 edistar, ah ok...but how to find it...grepping the OE.mtn file...but for what? Sep 12 20:48:38 best to ask mickey|zzZZzz Sep 12 20:48:46 he'll be home soon Sep 12 20:48:52 edistar, ok thanks Sep 12 20:50:56 ah...i've found a Makefile in the git of freesmartphone.org Sep 12 20:51:07 mabe i'll use it or use its informations... Sep 12 21:10:30 hm, there are two packages claiming to satisfy dbus-1, and an error Sep 12 21:17:10 i have a neo1973. and i cant get it to stay on. im guessing the battery is shot. is that likely? Sep 12 21:19:15 hi all Sep 12 21:19:41 is there a guide on how to run OM2008, in a virtual environment Sep 12 21:23:24 zouzou: Just use the standard guide on qemu, and burn a 2008.8 image? Sep 12 21:25:48 hello! did anyone try andy's "fix-glamo-turbo-host-interface.patch" ? Sep 12 21:26:01 it claims 60% performance increase Sep 12 21:26:10 on what? Sep 12 21:26:23 on your freerunner Sep 12 21:26:37 60% performance increase to everything? Sep 12 21:26:44 to the glamo thing Sep 12 21:26:57 60% e-penis enlargement! Sep 12 21:27:08 damn you viq Sep 12 21:27:32 my e-penis isn't nearly big enough Sep 12 21:27:33 so noone did test it? Sep 12 21:27:35 I'll take two Sep 12 21:27:52 igor321: 60% increase? Sep 12 21:28:01 igor321: url or it didn't happen Sep 12 21:28:07 one sec Sep 12 21:28:09 sorry, my pants cant take 60% increase Sep 12 21:28:17 it's like spasm! Sep 12 21:28:18 *spam Sep 12 21:28:29 ronny: they'll get 60% icrease too ;) Sep 12 21:28:35 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/commitlog/2008-July/005618.html Sep 12 21:28:47 viq: then i will loose them Sep 12 21:28:48 " In addition, until now we used PLL1 (50MHz) for host bus clock. Sep 12 21:28:48 Now, we use PLL2 (80MHz) for host bus clock, so all transactions Sep 12 21:28:48 complete quicker on Glamo side, it's a raw 60% improvement." Sep 12 21:28:53 it's not in stable yet Sep 12 21:29:31 nice Sep 12 21:29:53 i sure hope so Sep 12 21:30:03 i wish i had a gta02 so i could test it Sep 12 21:30:03 I wonder if you need a high-speed card for that Sep 12 21:30:11 hm, host bus clock Sep 12 21:30:21 wait, they're talking about Glamo in general? Sep 12 21:30:33 wow. that's kinda ridiculous. Sep 12 21:30:37 igor321: andy kernel is broken atm Sep 12 21:30:47 cjb: yes, glamo Sep 12 21:30:55 not to everything, glamo isn't the CPU or anything. Sep 12 21:31:09 and it might already be fast enough for the NAND Sep 12 21:31:15 and another glamo patch is in stable since yesterday Sep 12 21:31:26 cjb: btw, glamo is slowing down the cpu Sep 12 21:31:29 but it is the glamo that's blocking the cpu? Sep 12 21:31:29 also a performance booster, but not as much Sep 12 21:31:36 cjb: so glamo increase means overall increase Sep 12 21:31:41 edistar: when we wait for graphics requests to complete, I guess? Sep 12 21:31:46 cjb: yes Sep 12 21:31:49 edistar: what's the breakage in andy's branch? Sep 12 21:32:01 okay, so it means performance isn't improved when you aren't waiting for graphics requests to complete. Sep 12 21:32:03 Kensan: don't know exactly, mickeyl just said so Sep 12 21:32:11 I agree it sounds good. Let's not call it "everything". Sep 12 21:32:12 edistar: ok thanks for the heads up. Sep 12 21:32:45 duke nukem might even speed up :P Sep 12 21:32:50 sugg: It increases some things :) Sep 12 21:32:53 cjb: I thought the microSD controller was connected to the rest via the glamo. Sep 12 21:33:10 fukk yeah, a 12% and 60% raw improvement patches, that is a lottt Sep 12 21:33:16 Kensan: it is Sep 12 21:33:27 Well. The glamo _is_ the microsd controller. Sep 12 21:33:41 cjb: so IO will improve too. Sep 12 21:34:05 hooray! Sep 12 21:34:09 hey Sep 12 21:34:11 let's have a party Sep 12 21:34:16 tada! Sep 12 21:34:16 so i googled it, and some dude seems to have tested it Sep 12 21:34:17 your house? Sep 12 21:34:17 assuming it wasn't already being serviced as fast as possible by the old glamo clock speed, yeah. Sep 12 21:34:29 in the street Sep 12 21:34:33 he says its faster for him but no suspend & resume Sep 12 21:34:34 hehe Sep 12 21:34:49 so when will openmoko feature quadband? Sep 12 21:35:04 Smythe: in 2 years maybe Sep 12 21:35:08 drag Sep 12 21:35:21 by then w-cdma will be defacto Sep 12 21:35:24 igor321: can you give a link? Sep 12 21:35:34 Smythe: quadband is of no use, if there's no software to provide all the basic functionality :) Sep 12 21:35:43 Smythe: and that can be done with the current hardware. Sep 12 21:35:45 Kensan: muxer is there Sep 12 21:35:55 http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td834430 Sep 12 21:36:10 edistar: I was thinking about "user-space" apps. Sep 12 21:36:19 edistar: e.g. a fancy dialer etc :) Sep 12 21:36:22 Kensan: ah, of course Sep 12 21:39:30 my freerunner makes weird noises after i turn it off =/ Sep 12 21:40:25 off? Sep 12 21:40:45 after shutting down from qtopia the speakers starts making scratch noises Sep 12 21:40:52 Kensan, so you mean the current drivers on linux do not do quadband? Sep 12 21:41:45 Smythe: the chip isn't quad Sep 12 21:41:55 Smythe: so how could the firmware do quad? Sep 12 21:42:05 Smythe: but the muxer should be able to do it Sep 12 21:42:07 Smythe, he means the current software doesn't do calls and sms very well Sep 12 21:42:15 so its either 850/18/19 or 900/18/19? Sep 12 21:42:31 what does "dfu_upload error -84" mean after backing up the root fs via dfu_util? Sep 12 21:43:07 Smythe, correct. Reportedly GTA03 will try to be quad. Whenever that comes along. Sep 12 21:43:08 self: that it didn't work.. afaik backing up doesn't work yet Sep 12 21:43:30 Smythe: if the GSM chip would support quad band it could be used by the software stack. Sep 12 21:43:57 so can I toggle the firmware to behave either 850 or 900? via a flash? Sep 12 21:44:21 if thats all it is.... Sep 12 21:44:23 ?? Sep 12 21:44:31 yes Sep 12 21:44:35 ie wow! Sep 12 21:44:54 so I dont give a rats a** about quadband then Sep 12 21:45:04 edistar: mh, okay ;-/ Sep 12 21:45:20 Smythe, no. You can't. Sep 12 21:45:23 Smythe: I don't know if you can actually do that or if you would need a different firmware for the gsm chip. Sep 12 21:45:24 Er, the phone firmware can handle all bands, the GSM itelf cannot be changed. Sep 12 21:45:38 The GSM needs to be replaced. Sep 12 21:45:58 so the when I order an 850 I cant change it to a 900 the back to an 850? Sep 12 21:46:28 and we as mere mortal hacker wannabees do not have jdec or whatever access to that firmware?> Sep 12 21:46:53 (The Calypso is itself capable of either NA triband or Euro triband, but it requires different internal firmware, different RF components, and custom calibration to switch it --- i.e. only the factory can do it at time of manufacture Sep 12 21:46:55 ) Sep 12 21:46:59 mwester: Instead of replacing GSM "one" could also replace the firmware I suppose? Sep 12 21:47:15 mwester: oh ok, so it's not only a firmware issue. Sep 12 21:47:20 this is what I want to know Im handy with a JTAG Sep 12 21:47:30 Kensan: Nope, need to replace some RF components, and you would need to recalibrate the internals of the GSM itself. Sep 12 21:47:44 Smythe: JTAG will work with the phone, but not the GSM. Sep 12 21:47:52 ahh so it really aint a WinModem then lol Sep 12 21:47:57 k Sep 12 21:48:07 Not at all. It's totally closed and proprietary. Sep 12 21:48:17 mwester: ok thanks for the clarification. Sep 12 21:48:30 Us mere mortals don't even have docs for the GSM, and in fact, OM themselves don't have the full set of documents!!!!!!!! Sep 12 21:48:49 (Which is why we still have show-stopper bugs with the phone) Sep 12 21:49:06 mwester inneresting point Sep 12 21:49:24 so were all chomping at the bit somewhat? Sep 12 21:49:39 having fun no less Sep 12 21:49:55 the thing looks cool Sep 12 21:49:57 The GTA03 will hopefully be better, I'm told that whatever dumpster they fished these garbage GSM chips out of is empty, and the GTA03 will have to have a different GSM -- maybe even one that works! ;) Sep 12 21:50:24 and mwester thats 2 years off or so? Sep 12 21:50:46 Dunno; development of the hardware is still in the early prototyping stages. Sep 12 21:51:08 mwester: having a gsm which works (tm) would be a killer feature ;) Sep 12 21:51:15 I'd say at least a year, but hopefully not more than that as it will not be appreciably different than the gta02 in most regards. Sep 12 21:52:15 so i just installed the new fso image....does it suspend? Sep 12 21:52:44 ah well then I won't throw out my MoTo K1 anytime soon Sep 12 21:53:19 Pyrasi: heh! I asked the same thing. Yes, but only manually, by pressing the button on the side for 2 secs (power button) Sep 12 21:53:46 but I'll be watching this space for further developments....cheerz folks! Sep 12 21:56:27 ohhh.....i actually rather like that Sep 12 21:56:35 what about receiving calls while in suspend? Sep 12 21:57:39 works Sep 12 21:58:26 cjb: everytime? do you know if http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1945 appears there ? (sometimes, GSM seems to disconnect in suspend) Sep 12 21:58:41 haven't tried it more than a couple of times Sep 12 22:12:09 what is Htop? Sep 12 22:12:23 like top Sep 12 22:13:00 hmmm....seems to error out when i try to run it Sep 12 22:13:02 Pyrasi: http://pix.zash.se/i/dI.png Sep 12 22:13:21 oic Sep 12 22:51:40 opkg upgrade will break FDOM - a Fat and Dirty OM based distribution Sep 12 22:51:49 ? Sep 12 22:53:37 anyone here who knows a little about debian on freerunner? Sep 12 22:54:12 the screen is off and it doesn't reactivate on touch or any button press Sep 12 22:54:30 ssh via usb-networking works, so it's not shut down or suspended Sep 12 22:55:13 Wonka: ps axuf Sep 12 22:55:36 Wonka: is X running? Sep 12 22:56:34 xinit, X, matchbox-window-manager and zhone are all there Sep 12 22:56:53 Wonka: full ps axuf would still help Sep 12 22:58:28 http://nopaste.ch/330a510172d8ebb.html Sep 12 22:58:28 so i guess im upgradeing from FDOM to current Sep 12 22:59:20 Wonka: apmd and ssh-agent are probably extra btw Sep 12 22:59:32 i don't know about debian but when i'm in the console with fso and the screensaver kicks in, the only way to get the backlight back is /etc/init.d/x-nodm start followed by /etc/init.d/x-nodm stop Sep 12 22:59:44 Wonka: "DISPLAY=:0 xev"? Sep 12 23:00:35 no xev Sep 12 23:01:02 but when i run htop (via ssh) and pat around on the screen, both frameworkd and zhone do consume cpu time Sep 12 23:02:56 Wonka: install xev :) Sep 12 23:03:03 Wonka: or use xev from your desktop Sep 12 23:03:24 Wonka: ok, it's probably because zhone is not asking frameworkd to turn the screen on Sep 12 23:03:25 oh smart Sep 12 23:03:34 Wonka: can you dbus-monitor? Sep 12 23:04:46 Sep 12 23:04:46 debian-gta02:~# dbus-monitor Sep 12 23:04:46 Failed to open connection to session message bus: Failed to execute dbus-launch to autolaunch D-Bus session Sep 12 23:04:49 debian-gta02:~# dbus-launch dbus-monitor Sep 12 23:05:06 Wonka: you need more magic Sep 12 23:05:11 *search* Sep 12 23:05:22 Wonka: edit /etc/dbus-1/system-local.conf Sep 12 23:05:29 Wonka: add Sep 12 23:05:35 Wonka: then use su bin -c "dbus-monitor --system" Sep 12 23:05:56 is there a dhcp client on FSO Milestone III ? Sep 12 23:06:11 jonsmith1982: i'm sure you can install one? ;) Sep 12 23:07:03 lindi-: it starts now and doesn't complain Sep 12 23:07:31 Wonka: do you see anything when you touch the screen? Sep 12 23:07:57 Wonka: oh and you might need to restart dbus-daemon Sep 12 23:07:58 signal sender=:1.6 -> dest=(null destination) path=/org/freesmartphone/Device/IdleNotifier/0; interface=org.freesmartphone.Device.IdleNotifier; member=State Sep 12 23:08:01 string "BUSY" Sep 12 23:08:33 after that, strings IDLE IDLE_DIM IDLE_PRELOCK IDLE_PRELOCK SUSPEND Sep 12 23:08:54 ok, let me think :) Sep 12 23:10:33 Wonka: ok, so that's fso-frameworkd telling everyone that the system is not idle anymore Sep 12 23:10:52 Wonka: fso-frameworkd listens on /dev/input/event* and sees when you use touchscreen Sep 12 23:11:01 Wonka: now for some reason zhone is not reacting to that Sep 12 23:11:25 Wonka: anything in /tmp/zhone.log? Sep 12 23:12:33 lindi-: the last lines are about INFO IDLE STATE Sep 12 23:12:50 Wonka: and do they update? Sep 12 23:13:00 when you e.g. "tail -f /tmp/zhone.log" Sep 12 23:14:00 no... Sep 12 23:14:16 it's 01:13 here, and the last line is: Sep 12 23:14:17 2008-09-12 20:28:24,604 INFO IDLE STATE = SUSPEND Sep 12 23:14:38 ok so zhone is "stuck" somewhere Sep 12 23:14:45 even if that timestamp was UTC, that would be 3 hours ago Sep 12 23:14:55 unfortunately i don't know a way to attach python debugger to an already running process Sep 12 23:14:58 so i'd try restarting X? Sep 12 23:15:03 Wonka: just restart zhone Sep 12 23:15:11 kill it and start again "DISPLAY=:0 zhone &" Sep 12 23:16:42 done. Sep 12 23:16:47 still no displa Sep 12 23:16:48 y Sep 12 23:16:55 ok, that's odd Sep 12 23:17:03 Wonka: is /tmp/zhone.log updating now? Sep 12 23:17:15 it's empty now Sep 12 23:17:32 it probably truncates it on startup Sep 12 23:17:45 Wonka: but nothing gets added there even though dbus-monitor shows idlenotifier events? Sep 12 23:18:01 correct Sep 12 23:18:12 hmm Sep 12 23:18:39 there have been tracebacks complaining about no SIM being present... Sep 12 23:18:40 i think python debugger is the way to go now Sep 12 23:18:46 Wonka: aha, that might be it Sep 12 23:18:54 Wonka: zhone just might not work without sim Sep 12 23:18:55 they are not there yet Sep 12 23:19:03 okaaay... Sep 12 23:19:17 at least i have never tested it without SIM Sep 12 23:19:18 so, could i get rid of zhone and instead install gpe? Sep 12 23:19:23 gpe? Sep 12 23:19:33 "g palmtop environment" Sep 12 23:19:50 never heard of that, is it in debian? Sep 12 23:19:55 it is Sep 12 23:20:16 Wonka: then sure, go ahead Sep 12 23:20:32 Wonka: but you need some small script to control display brightness i'm afraid :) Sep 12 23:20:58 could you tell me how to reactivate the display manually? Sep 12 23:21:05 * lindi- looks Sep 12 23:21:18 self.display_iface.SetBrightness( 90 ) Sep 12 23:21:22 Wonka: you can, but GPE is no good Sep 12 23:21:25 is what zhone does Sep 12 23:21:36 Sep 12 23:21:38 and it is self.display_iface = Interface( self.display_obj, "org.freesmartphone.Device.Display" ) Sep 12 23:21:47 where self.display_obj = self.tryGetProxy( "org.freesmartphone.odeviced", self.fw.ListObjectsByInterface( "org.freesmartphone.Device.Display" )[0] ) Sep 12 23:22:37 sounds... selfish. Sep 12 23:23:05 i'll try it Sep 12 23:27:08 self.fw = Interface( fw_obj, "org.freesmartphone.Objects" ) Sep 12 23:28:46 Wonka: figured it out Sep 12 23:28:51 Wonka: $ cli-frameworkd Sep 12 23:28:51 >>> a = bus.get_object("org.freesmartphone.odeviced", "/org/freesmartphone/Device/Display/pcf50633_bl"); Sep 12 23:28:55 >>> a.SetBrightness(90) Sep 12 23:29:07 has anyone here built the toolchain yet? Sep 12 23:29:17 TAsnn: which one? Sep 12 23:29:20 lindi-: only got cli-framework, without d Sep 12 23:29:37 ah yes, cli-framework Sep 12 23:29:39 lindi-, the one under toolchain in the wiki (don't know how it's called) Sep 12 23:29:39 ;0 Sep 12 23:29:49 TAsnn: i think it listed many Sep 12 23:29:57 sec Sep 12 23:29:58 lindi-: i put those lines in, but my display is still dark Sep 12 23:30:06 hrm Sep 12 23:30:09 now that is odd Sep 12 23:30:19 http://downloads.openmoko.org/toolchains/openmoko-i686-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2 Sep 12 23:30:27 this one ;0 Sep 12 23:30:43 Wonka: echo 63 > /sys/class/backlight/pcf50633-bl/brightness? Sep 12 23:32:22 lindi-, have you tried this one? Sep 12 23:32:42 TAsn: yes Sep 12 23:32:49 since im getting erros i can't seem to solve Sep 12 23:32:54 TAsn: that's the most direct way to control it Sep 12 23:33:06 what errors? Sep 12 23:33:07 trying to compile the sample app Sep 12 23:33:20 TAsn: whoops, wrong person :P Sep 12 23:33:22 undefined reference to `gtk_object_get_type' Sep 12 23:33:33 for a starter Sep 12 23:33:35 a lot like that. Sep 12 23:33:47 lindi-: now i got a lighted display Sep 12 23:33:50 TAsn: what's your command line? Sep 12 23:33:51 i installed gnome-common from svn Sep 12 23:33:52 Wonka: ok Sep 12 23:33:55 lindi-, make Sep 12 23:33:56 ;0 Sep 12 23:33:57 lindi-: and the SetBrightness also works now Sep 12 23:34:02 lindi-: funny Sep 12 23:34:06 Wonka: weird Sep 12 23:34:12 Wonka: did you change anything in between? Sep 12 23:34:25 TAsn: yeah but what does make do? Sep 12 23:34:38 lindi-: i did play with /sys/class/backlight/pcf50633-bl/bl_power back before i asked here Sep 12 23:34:43 what ever sample app does, sec i will check. Sep 12 23:34:54 Wonka: hmm Sep 12 23:35:12 lindi-: put 1 in it, and after that i put the 0 back that was there before Sep 12 23:35:22 Wonka: right Sep 12 23:35:33 Wonka: if you can figure out how to reproduce this we might be able to fix the actual bug Sep 12 23:36:26 lindi-, http://pastebin.ca/1201418 Sep 12 23:36:38 lindi-: will try Sep 12 23:36:54 so. now i got zhone and it's gps app running Sep 12 23:37:06 lat, lon, alt - all n/a Sep 12 23:37:45 TAsn: well, what's the command it executes? Sep 12 23:38:10 atm, when i touch the dimmed-out screen, it goes light again Sep 12 23:38:49 lindi-, http://pastebin.ca/1201419 Sep 12 23:41:17 lindi-, any ideas? Sep 12 23:43:35 TAsn: you are using GTK but not linking against GTK libraries? Sep 12 23:43:46 lindi-, it's the sample app Sep 12 23:43:58 i thought everything will just be there. :) Sep 12 23:44:07 doesn't seem to be Sep 12 23:44:20 btw, is this the correct toolchain for qtopia/asu/gtk/fso? or should i use different ones? Sep 12 23:44:49 TAsn: i am not quite sure, i am using debian nowadays since i couldn't compile the other distros Sep 12 23:45:43 lindi-, i c. and for debian you use the toolchain? Sep 12 23:45:56 TAsn: no i apt-get install gcc Sep 12 23:46:07 btw, where can i get the arm gtk library? Sep 12 23:46:14 so i will be able to link to it. Sep 12 23:48:32 i am including gtk2 Sep 12 23:48:34 -I/usr/local/openmoko/arm/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/usr/include/gtk-2.0 Sep 12 23:49:11 TAsn: that's for header files Sep 12 23:49:15 does anyone else have a problem that the phone icon in the new fso image is greyed out? Sep 12 23:49:18 TAsn: you are not linking against gtk Sep 12 23:49:18 i cant click on it.... Sep 12 23:49:29 lindi-, where can i find the arm gtk? Sep 12 23:49:37 the address book works and i can make calls from that Sep 12 23:49:44 i just cant click on the dailer app Sep 12 23:49:48 gaah. shouldn't fso-frameworkd initialize the gps chip when it tries to use it? Sep 12 23:49:52 TAsn: i'd imagine the toolchain would have it, mokomakefile can build it, you can compile it Sep 12 23:50:15 Wonka: yes Sep 12 23:50:25 it complains (to /dev/null, so i can only see it using strace) some incoming data is not UBX Sep 12 23:50:30 it was NMEA Sep 12 23:50:39 so i restarted frameworkd Sep 12 23:50:42 if you have the headers under /usr/local/openmoko/arm/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi then i guess the library should be somewhere in there too Sep 12 23:50:44 the same :( Sep 12 23:51:01 $ gtk-config --libs Sep 12 23:51:01 -L/usr/lib -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lgtk -lgdk -rdynamic -lgmodule -lglib -ldl -lXi -lXext -lX11 -lm Sep 12 23:51:09 so this isnt happening to anyone else? Sep 12 23:51:26 aaaand i had to powerup the gps chip myself Sep 12 23:51:29 frameworkd didnt Sep 12 23:51:30 Pyrasi: do you know python? Sep 12 23:51:37 Wonka: very weird Sep 12 23:51:40 alittle Sep 12 23:51:43 Wonka: if you have time please debug this Sep 12 23:52:05 Pyrasi: also to you i'd suggest you to study how it works :) Sep 12 23:52:16 oh Sep 12 23:52:26 pkg-config with PKG_CONFIG_PATH set to somewhere under /usr/local/openmoko/arm/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi would give you the right flags to use with the arm toolchain to link against gtk Sep 12 23:53:06 lindi-: when i find time, i will look into it... atm i got too much to do for university and stuff Sep 12 23:53:27 lindi-: some hours in the evening usually are not enough :( Sep 12 23:57:51 lindi-: after a reboot, many things work much better... Sep 12 23:58:41 Does anyone have the older Neo 1973? I am working on writing a little bash script to make DFU easier for people who have multiple devices on their PC, I have the device identifier for the FR but not the NEO1973 Sep 13 00:05:01 still can't get it to work Sep 13 00:05:08 i think i found the right libs Sep 13 00:05:13 they were under Sep 13 00:05:20 /usr/local/openmoko/arm/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/usr/lib Sep 13 00:05:31 though changing the makefile doesn't do the trick for some reason. Sep 13 00:05:35 it's still not listening ;) Sep 13 00:10:03 mh. mh. can i get zhone (or matchbox-window-manager) to start an external application? Sep 13 00:10:16 like, maybe, tangogps? Sep 13 00:25:03 does anyone have the device identifier that is used for the -d argument for the neo1973? Sep 13 00:25:22 i have the one for the FR already but I don't have a 1973 to check on Sep 13 00:26:23 prjktdtnt:for the neo1973 its 0x1457:0x5119 Sep 13 00:26:34 celtune1: thanks :) Sep 13 00:26:40 yw :) Sep 13 00:55:06 the correct alternative for updating uboot is -a u-boot correct? Sep 13 00:56:01 nm, found what i was looking for actually Sep 13 01:00:51 bbl Sep 13 01:13:11 hey, what is the "/sys/bus/platform/devices/neo1973-pm-gsm.0/reset" file Sep 13 01:20:43 Hello all! Question about FSO Milestone3 on the Neo1973... I get an error trying to install the gllin driver package... Sep 13 01:38:30 now to test to see if my new bash script works! Sep 13 01:43:31 * prjktdtnt jumps for joy Sep 13 01:44:10 I'm going to send an e-mail to community, wrote a bash script that makes flashing the kernel, u-boot and rootfs much easier if you have multiple dfu capable devices enabled Sep 13 01:49:07 cool! Sep 13 01:50:17 is anyone able to make their own gforge project? Sep 13 01:54:04 One other question I have for the community, if you're developing a project which do you feel is better CVS or SVN? Sep 13 01:54:44 if u are starting anew with a scms Sep 13 01:54:45 svn Sep 13 01:54:55 if u already have cvs - is itsn tthat bad Sep 13 01:55:01 svn it is then :) thanks Sep 13 02:03:12 ok e-mail has been sent to community and gforge request has been submitted Sep 13 02:08:33 just flashed to FDOM using it, so much easier than typing out the hex codes, could someone with a 1973 try it out and verify it works for them, also I haven't tested if u-boot actually flashes since I don't have a dboard if it doesn't work Sep 13 02:30:01 am i mistaken or did i see some slackware specifif commands in usb-networking alrightythen Sep 13 02:41:51 hmm can you actually use the Freerunner as a phone when you install debian? Sep 13 02:42:11 yes, when it works Sep 13 02:42:23 are the packages available for gsmd, the dialer and so on? Sep 13 02:42:40 fso-* and zhone Sep 13 02:43:03 in the pkg-fso feed Sep 13 02:43:18 night! Sep 13 02:43:42 thank you! Sep 13 02:45:35 openmoko: 03werner * r4642 10/developers/werner/ahrt/host/tmc/ (6 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed) Sep 13 02:45:35 openmoko: Highlights: Sep 13 02:45:35 openmoko: - also non-root users can access USB TMC devices Sep 13 02:45:35 openmoko: - prototype of an interactive analyzer for digital signals Sep 13 02:45:35 openmoko: Details: Sep 13 02:45:37 openmoko: - etc/40-usbtmc-permissions.rules: udev rules to make all USB TMC devices Sep 13 02:45:41 openmoko: belong to group "usbtmc" with group write access Sep 13 02:59:26 openmoko: 03werner * r4643 10/developers/werner/wlan-spi/vds/ (. trigger vds.py view): Sep 13 02:59:26 openmoko: Tools for monitoring MMC/SD/SDIO operations: Sep 13 02:59:26 openmoko: - vds.py iterates acquisition through a number of messages and stores the Sep 13 02:59:26 openmoko: results for further analysis Sep 13 02:59:26 openmoko: - trigger: helper script to set the trigger point on the device Sep 13 02:59:29 openmoko: - view: gnuplot wrapper for a first glance at the data **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Sep 13 02:59:56 2008