**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Sep 23 02:59:58 2008 Sep 23 03:10:44 toomuch work Sep 23 03:13:59 cough cough do we have voip yet ? Sep 23 03:31:26 what do i need to kill to unmount the sd card on qtopia? Sep 23 03:31:32 :( Sep 23 03:41:17 qpe Sep 23 03:49:31 * rooly is fairly happy with om8.9 so far Sep 23 03:52:59 is that right... haven't tried it myself :s Sep 23 03:53:21 only issue i have is that the media player doesn't get sound making ability back after a call Sep 23 03:53:31 until a reboot Sep 23 03:53:41 rooly: whats your honest opinion of it vs 2007? Sep 23 03:53:43 (if playing while the song is in progress) Sep 23 03:53:50 ftw / ftl Sep 23 03:53:58 2007? if it were more stable and supported, i would be using it now Sep 23 03:54:14 if it didn't have the issue with the contacts where it starts going slow for some reason, i would still be using it Sep 23 03:54:23 roger that Sep 23 03:54:30 if the today screen for 2007 wouldn't randomly crash, i would still use it Sep 23 03:54:49 so many pro's / cons with both Sep 23 03:54:50 a bonus would of course revolve around being able to SAVE to sim Sep 23 03:54:56 yep Sep 23 03:55:16 i wish the v-card feature woulda stayed Sep 23 03:55:42 however, both need sync plugins Sep 23 03:55:53 2008 is the future Sep 23 03:56:00 it's sleek, stylish, and getting faster Sep 23 03:56:32 only thing needed before it's a fully capable PHONE is built-in bluetooth headset support Sep 23 03:57:00 * sgrover chuckles at rooly's comment. Just returned the headset I bought for that purpose... Sep 23 03:57:19 i actually have mine very partially working Sep 23 03:57:43 I could pair, but would only get the occasional spurt of static from it. Sep 23 03:58:03 with Qtopia Sep 23 03:58:08 i succesfully paired and began forwarding Sep 23 03:58:18 but it wasn't able to make calls Sep 23 03:58:22 with the headset Sep 23 03:58:28 does qtopia have gprs tho ? Sep 23 03:58:32 seriously, that kinda thing needs to be part of the phone server Sep 23 03:58:37 qtopia itself sure does Sep 23 03:58:56 can i use qtopia's gprs ... got a browser or ... Sep 23 03:59:55 wait till qt 4.3.4 or 4.4 or whatever Sep 23 04:00:03 it will have a browser Sep 23 04:00:22 but .... Sep 23 04:02:11 it stil eorks like you can ping Sep 23 04:02:19 works* Sep 23 04:02:36 i do believe Sep 23 04:03:29 couldn't tell you tho Sep 23 04:03:40 i had to uninstall qtopia because it lost the ability to make sound Sep 23 04:03:57 lulz your a mute Sep 23 04:07:29 meh. fair enough. Sep 23 04:11:48 Gee, it sure would be handy if the Toolchain instructions at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain actually worked. Sep 23 04:20:17 OK. I give up. I guess I will learn python programming since it is impossible to compile a C program for my neo. Sep 23 04:20:42 no it isn't Sep 23 04:20:53 just copy over the source and compile it with your phone Sep 23 04:20:55 * SpeedEvil has done it. Sep 23 04:21:06 * rooly has doen it Sep 23 04:21:10 * rooly compiled a 3d-engine on it Sep 23 04:21:11 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * rd94054c3c98a 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/ (convert.py sms.py): Sep 23 04:21:11 freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: Make GSM default alphabet a codec to prepare for UCS2 handling. Sep 23 04:21:11 freesmartphone.org: Note: This currently breaks decoding/encoding SMS. Sep 23 04:22:25 rooly: I did the stuff at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain but when I get to the om-conf line, I always get "configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables" Sep 23 04:22:41 ahhh, yeah Sep 23 04:23:05 it's trying to compile .cpp's or .cc's with gcc Sep 23 04:23:10 gcc only compiles .c and .h Sep 23 04:23:32 g++ compiles c, cc, cpp, CC, h, hh, HH, and hpp Sep 23 04:24:35 What's the "it" that is trying and how do I correct "it"? Sep 23 04:25:13 i don't know exactly how to fix it... Sep 23 04:25:20 g++ is gcc methinks Sep 23 04:25:41 just maps to gcc and defaults the language to c++ Sep 23 04:25:59 nah Sep 23 04:26:17 g++ is a bit different Sep 23 04:27:02 not a compiler expert, they would know how to fix your problem Sep 23 04:27:14 i guess it's mostly a problem with the autotools configuration in the project Sep 23 04:27:57 yeah... Sep 23 04:28:19 * RayDar starts reading about python... at least that seems to work on my neo Sep 23 04:28:44 "040c849f561133cd55ef9085193fbe66 /usr/bin/g++" and "040c849f561133cd55ef9085193fbe66 /usr/bin/gcc" Sep 23 04:28:51 the md5sums of both... they're the same Sep 23 04:29:05 on the phone? Sep 23 04:29:18 the phone doesn't have gcc installed Sep 23 04:29:26 it's a package tho Sep 23 04:29:54 well, gcc is gcc... so if it is so on my computer, it should be so on that package Sep 23 04:30:24 "gcc -x c++" to force, although "gcc blah.cpp" will use c++ based on its extension Sep 23 04:30:48 ic Sep 23 04:30:52 see, i'm not a compiler expert Sep 23 04:32:40 oh, and mokomakefile sets up a toolchain relatively easily, and you can compile in it then Sep 23 04:32:55 so can fso-makefile Sep 23 04:33:16 mokomake is FAIL for me Sep 23 04:33:32 hey kd8ikt Sep 23 04:33:39 evening Sep 23 04:34:06 /bin/sh: line 1: 8432 Killed ( bitbake openmoko-asu-image ) Sep 23 04:34:22 5sec after running make image Sep 23 04:34:40 fine, try fso-makefile :P Sep 23 04:35:50 i set up fso-makefile, and i'm just improperly setting up my makefiles to use the libs in there, heh Sep 23 04:36:05 I have faith that someday the instructions will be written in good English and the toolchain it references will actually work. Sep 23 04:37:21 oh, and the cannot create executables is a linking error methinks Sep 23 04:37:44 google will undoubtedly tell you Sep 23 04:37:45 its a gcc trying to compile a c++ program Sep 23 04:38:11 no, it's not that Sep 23 04:38:25 if that were true, gcc would try and compile it as c, and report syntax errors Sep 23 04:38:45 not necissarily Sep 23 04:39:41 it could also be an x86 vs x86_64 thing Sep 23 04:40:07 i went and messed with the people at AT&T today Sep 23 04:40:19 it's a linking issue, likely due to the native toolchain on your host machine Sep 23 04:40:32 you may not have all the dev packages installed Sep 23 04:49:45 I wonder which packages on my Gentoo system must be installed. Sep 23 05:21:55 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * rdc6173a24311 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/sms.py: ogsmd: decode DCS field Sep 23 05:26:03 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r05ab931f1bff 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/sms.py: ogsmd: Use DCS alphabet to decode the message properly. Sep 23 05:28:55 Yay! My python program does its job. Sep 23 05:36:31 RayDar, what job does it? Sep 23 06:20:41 Does anyone know how to change the image of the pair of boots shown while 2008.x boots - not the splash screen, but the image shown (intermittantly) while linux boots? Sep 23 06:26:50 i think this is the kernel splash Sep 23 06:26:56 or is it the userspace splash? Sep 23 06:27:03 there are three splash screens in action Sep 23 06:27:11 yo momma splash Sep 23 06:27:55 :p Sep 23 06:32:44 So there are two identical images of boots (ignoring the slash you load with uboot) shown during linux boot-up? Sep 23 06:33:07 one is a system boot splash in the fb Sep 23 06:33:15 the other is enlightenment's i9nit splash once x is up Sep 23 06:33:40 raster, Is it wasy to change the enlightenment one? Sep 23 06:33:51 yes - .edj file theme Sep 23 06:33:56 like everything else e Sep 23 06:33:57 :) Sep 23 06:34:02 same with system boot splash too Sep 23 06:34:04 .edj file Sep 23 06:34:05 :) Sep 23 06:34:38 where's the .edj in the file system? What's the path? May I just edit that file? Sep 23 06:35:45 no Sep 23 06:35:54 u'll need to edje_Decc it Sep 23 06:35:57 (decompile) Sep 23 06:36:04 then u'll get all the image files and .edc layout sourc Sep 23 06:36:15 then u can recompile (edj_cc or use the build.sh that is created) Sep 23 06:36:25 various places in the fs Sep 23 06:36:26 use find Sep 23 06:36:26 :) Sep 23 06:36:48 Zut. Sounds like more of a hassle than it's worth. Thanks for the info, though. Sep 23 06:43:30 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Linphone any one used that ? Sep 23 06:47:36 mmm speaking of VoIP... Has there been any thought into *not* releasing a easy to install package - I'm worried that companies that *love* to manopolize the phone networks might block FR if they become popular for VoIP when not on the go Sep 23 06:48:16 fragged: NO. why don't you just go and use windows. i heard its better because i think you should pay microsoft Sep 23 06:48:19 rofl. Sep 23 06:48:37 Then again, the same phone companies have already manopolized VoIP prices so its not any cheaper to Text or call a mobile anyway, not so much the same for home phones but I never call them anyway Sep 23 06:48:44 hello Sep 23 06:48:59 fragged: dude. ok atm i use voip via my phone i just don't do it via the conventional connect via the netz Sep 23 06:49:29 aliases123, Wtf are you on? Read up on Cedega and how it *is* open source and you can freely download from SVN and build yourself, but by paying liek $5 / month you get official version packages that work a lot better Sep 23 06:49:58 mmm I might ask again when the intelligence level is a bit higher -.- Sep 23 06:50:01 fragged: so why are you making it harder for others ? Sep 23 06:50:16 the point of foss is to enable users not give them an iq test Sep 23 06:51:15 aliases123, because then the general population start using VoIP, companies start worrying more about losing potential income; which then brings them to block FR/OM from being used by the end user Sep 23 06:51:41 fragged[away]: i use linux. i'm not paying microsoft. same logic. Sep 23 06:51:42 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * rbc50dff0e421 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Sep 23 06:51:42 freesmartphone.org: org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call: remove 'message' argument from Release, Sep 23 06:51:42 freesmartphone.org: ReleaseHeld, and ReleaseAll. A reason for why we wanted to hang up Sep 23 06:51:42 freesmartphone.org: will make more sense on a higher level abstraction, i.e. Sep 23 06:51:42 freesmartphone.org: org.freesmartphone.Phone. Thanks quickdev for reminding. Sep 23 06:51:53 fragged[away]: should i be forced to buy windowz ? Sep 23 06:52:16 Telstra (An Australian monopoly ISP and phone provider) use custom firmware to block VoIP from routers they provide to there customers, and re-badge the routers so the general user wouldn't be able to fix the problem. Sep 23 06:52:33 fragged[away]: i m aware of that i'm australian. Sep 23 06:52:54 aliases123, Grow up a bit. Think before you type. Then come back :) Sep 23 06:52:55 fragged[away]: that's telstra. don't think for a second that there are other companies like them even remotely. Sep 23 06:53:20 fragged[away]: my point to you is your argument states i should buy windows by the same token, you should grow up Sep 23 06:53:21 ah, you mean like NOT DODO blah blah blah Sep 23 06:53:46 good morning Sep 23 06:54:09 fragged[away]: i am forcing you to buy windows because if word gets out you can use linux for free the wouldn't give me a computer anymore. same selfish ideas fragged[away] . Sep 23 06:55:19 What? Since when did I say anything about paying? I said that if the software were not easily installable by the end user, it would be less likely that the FR would be blocked. Users that *are* capable of building the software benifit. You cant block the software entirely unless the entire distro becomes closed source (Which already is near impossible) but you can prevent it from being in the package management. Sep 23 06:55:23 http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6565189083.html Sep 23 06:56:38 fragged[away]: that makes no sense. Sep 23 06:56:41 aliases123, Do a bit of study on how phone companies *actually* work. There greedy, they would *all* block a phone that provides VoIP as it is lost income. Sep 23 06:56:43 I'm leaving now. baii Sep 23 06:57:11 fragged[away]: pennytel callback Sep 23 06:57:33 fragged[away]: and they don't. people having been doing it for ages with nokia's ipohones etc. Sep 23 06:58:03 aliases123, well. When the FR gets blocked in Australia, and somebody provides a way to spoof whatever data to make servers think its a FR, dont come asking me for a copy - and dont think for a second it will be in the repo's :) Sep 23 06:58:09 how stable is 2008.9 ? Sep 23 06:58:11 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * r42189f7ce6d2 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Sep 23 06:58:11 freesmartphone.org: otapi: org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call: s/released/release in call status to Sep 23 06:58:11 freesmartphone.org: match current implementations. Sep 23 06:58:55 fragged[away]: right. there are about 100ish users with frs in aust im sure they will bother Sep 23 07:00:44 aliases123: people are doing it with Nokia's and iphones because telcos allowed them to do it. Sep 23 07:01:10 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * r6b6ccc921c3f 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/sms.py: ogsmd: Fix UCS2 decoding Sep 23 07:01:33 harnir: of course. however, it would be illegal to prevent a "nokia" on the basis that it can make a voip phone call. surely. Sep 23 07:02:15 why illegal? I don't want certain phone on _my_ network, so I block it. case closed. Sep 23 07:04:09 harnir: ok lets be more realistic. Sep 23 07:04:12 how do you know its a fr Sep 23 07:04:17 IMEI Sep 23 07:04:26 SpeedEvil: yes. what does it state on the frs Sep 23 07:04:33 fic ? Sep 23 07:04:43 It's allocated to a certain range IIRC. Sep 23 07:05:22 SpeedEvil: more to the point. the only way we will be able to use the voip functionality is via wifi or a usb connected connection. so... Sep 23 07:06:02 how stable is 2008.9 ? Sep 23 07:06:16 aliases123: or BTY Sep 23 07:06:22 aliases123: or push-talk Sep 23 07:06:41 aliases123: the delay on GPRS is too high for normal VOIP for most people. Sep 23 07:06:47 aliases123: err - BT Sep 23 07:07:23 CVirus: it crashed on your phone? Sep 23 07:07:34 harnir: I don't have a FreeRunner yet Sep 23 07:07:37 yeah. like i would agree. if 1. the providers would care about a small user base. 2. they really hated us consumers. :) Sep 23 07:08:52 aliases123: imagine, that FR users are permitted using VoIP on GPRS (aside the speed issues, etc.). Then Android users would also want to use VoIP, will they let them? Sep 23 07:09:10 or users with other phones Sep 23 07:09:20 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r9298353a6e29 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/sms.py: ogsmd: Fix encoding when we don't have a 7-bit charset Sep 23 07:09:53 CVirus: so, by crashing, you mean the application stability or ability to make calls from the phone, sms, etc.? Sep 23 07:10:22 harnir: stability, calls, sms, suspend/resume Sep 23 07:10:32 harnir: look. they can't keep ripping people off for ever. Sep 23 07:10:51 anyone had problems installing gestures on 2008.8/9? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gestures Sep 23 07:11:07 aliases123: why? it's _their_ network. you can open your own, if you want. but they won't let you connect. Sep 23 07:11:39 harnir: i use a network sure. but i use a voip service that calls me back if i call a number. the call to that number costs me $0 Sep 23 07:11:59 it calls me back i dial a number / push a speed dial number and get connected through. Sep 23 07:12:09 costs about the same as a voip call. Sep 23 07:12:44 aliases123: I see it as a free ride on a private transportation service. Sep 23 07:12:49 best part is. how do you know i'm doing that ? (wiretapping laws) Sep 23 07:13:20 aliases123: in US NSA viretaps ISP companies Sep 23 07:13:40 aliases123: if they're doing that, for sure they have already rooted deeply in telcos Sep 23 07:14:22 harnir: that's nice i'm not in the usa. + companies know and sell this service. its just no one uses it. Sep 23 07:15:37 harnir: do you have an answer to my question ? Sep 23 07:16:05 2008.9 seems fine to me only had it a few mins Sep 23 07:16:50 CVirus: actually i'm using qtopia for a while... it looks stable, I can make calls and read/write SMS Sep 23 07:16:58 suspend/resume ? Sep 23 07:17:03 CVirus: haven't used 2008.9 much, so can't help you Sep 23 07:17:10 CVirus: i can. suspend + resume. Sep 23 07:17:18 don't know how it works outside of 1 hour tho Sep 23 07:17:20 CVirus: still problems with suspend, but I figure it's Linux think, not a specific distribution Sep 23 07:17:21 aliases123: no wsod ? Sep 23 07:17:33 wsod? Sep 23 07:17:38 white screen of death Sep 23 07:17:40 never saw it Sep 23 07:17:44 cool Sep 23 07:17:58 harnir: you talking about qtopia .. right ? Sep 23 07:18:05 CVirus: yes Sep 23 07:18:08 cool Sep 23 07:18:11 CVirus: you want to buy FR? Sep 23 07:18:20 harnir: so bad :( Sep 23 07:18:40 CVirus: may I ask why? because that's the tricky part :-) Sep 23 07:18:41 don't have the money yet Sep 23 07:18:53 oh ah guys this qtmail ? is that just for email ? Sep 23 07:19:01 * aliases123 would be neat to have encrypted smses Sep 23 07:19:12 harnir: I'll be using it for my bachelor project and as a day to day phone Sep 23 07:19:28 aliases123, supsend & resume works without any problems? try to do it quickly a few times ;) Sep 23 07:19:38 quickdev: in a few minutes. Sep 23 07:20:19 harnir: I've been following this project since it was in its very first stages ... and I haven't got a phone yet :-( Sep 23 07:20:49 CVirus: that was a good move. rofl get an andriod instead better battery life. Sep 23 07:21:14 aliases123: android uses proprietary software Sep 23 07:21:24 CVirus: java ;_) Sep 23 07:21:29 android restricts your hacking to java Sep 23 07:21:48 I don't hate java .. but I hate the restrictions Sep 23 07:23:22 CVirus: i would trade if i get a gprs + sharable + voip + battery life phone. Sep 23 07:23:44 you'll get those with the FreeRunner when the software stack is ready Sep 23 07:24:05 um. can't be sure about the battery life. Sep 23 07:24:38 some people reported 25-30 hours of battery life Sep 23 07:24:48 but yeah. you are right. the voip is workys almost just needs these new alsa states. ( i couldn't figure them out). + everything else is pretty dandy ? really 25-30 hours ... neat Sep 23 07:24:50 Battery life is very much a work in progress. Suspend works for some people in some images on freerunner, leading to >24h suspend times. It looks plausible from various sources of information and testing that 3-5 hours of talk time, 20h of mp3 playing, and a week of standby should be possible. Sep 23 07:25:25 yeah .. I think it should be possible Sep 23 07:25:25 my biggest problems is that there is no documentation on how to set the ringtone on om2008 Sep 23 07:27:38 does any one know how to do that btw. (set the ringtone) Sep 23 07:36:42 oh and is it possible to change the imei code on the freerunner. you can do so on an iphone apparently Sep 23 07:38:17 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rc9089bca39be 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/ (gsm/error.py modems/abstract/mediator.py): ogsmd: send correct dbus error if number is not an emergency number Sep 23 07:49:53 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * rc9d354777776 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/sms.py: Sep 23 07:49:53 freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: Calculate user data length correctly when not using GSM default alphabet Sep 23 07:49:53 freesmartphone.org: Encoding of UCS2 SMS now works as well, but dcs and dcs_* fields must be set Sep 23 07:49:53 freesmartphone.org: correctly) Sep 23 07:56:17 um maybe its just me but suspend is broken for me now Sep 23 07:56:44 this is 2008.9 i just added a whole lot tho and added the matchbox keyboard before this Sep 23 07:58:15 aliases123, it was broken for me, too Sep 23 07:58:30 that's the biggest bug atm Sep 23 07:59:09 just the gui. Sep 23 07:59:23 its just the display tho. it doesn't come back Sep 23 07:59:40 aliases123, do you know if the phones comes back? how? Sep 23 08:00:03 just pluged it in via usb. light came on - got it back once. Sep 23 08:00:20 + when i called it i could hear the phone getting an incoming call Sep 23 08:00:48 if that issue would be fixed I'd use it as my daily phone Sep 23 08:00:57 hear it getting an incoming call how? Sep 23 08:01:40 you know the static... Sep 23 08:01:59 aliases123: means nothing Sep 23 08:02:11 aliases123: that's just the GSM processor needs to be alive to do that Sep 23 08:02:12 ah i then got the display back on. Sep 23 08:02:29 not related unfortantly Sep 23 08:02:29 aliases123: will happen if you unsolder the main CPU even. Sep 23 08:02:44 you guys use the om2008? Sep 23 08:03:01 which one ? Sep 23 08:03:31 i did the question first :) Sep 23 08:03:47 2008.8 i guess Sep 23 08:03:49 enriko: which 2008 release. Sep 23 08:04:16 http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1991 Sep 23 08:04:17 is the newest Sep 23 08:04:19 oh yeah i have used 2008.8 yeah that one seems fine. 2008.9 just testing now -- has some gui failings on resume for me at least (probably just me was fine before i started installing stuff) Sep 23 08:04:20 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions#Om_2008.8_.28ASU.2C_April.2FAugust_Software_Update.29 Sep 23 08:04:28 seems fine? Sep 23 08:04:38 hm Sep 23 08:04:44 i think is unusable Sep 23 08:04:59 you asked pin with letters instead ofo numbers Sep 23 08:05:10 keyboard is hopeless without the pencil Sep 23 08:05:12 wow thats an 11 day old problem. yikes. i didn't hit it before now. Sep 23 08:05:25 enriko: try qtopia if you want to use it as a phone. Sep 23 08:05:43 ok so you guys don't use it as a phone Sep 23 08:05:54 good to know Sep 23 08:06:17 enriko: well no i don't. i have a cheap nokia atm. enriko you can and 2008.8 is very good just i don't know how to set a ringtone. rofl. Sep 23 08:06:33 aliases123, this might be more related: http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1884 Sep 23 08:06:40 i am using qtopia Sep 23 08:06:45 but also that is not working Sep 23 08:06:47 or Sep 23 08:06:51 just partially Sep 23 08:06:53 i think it has to do with what i installed. Sep 23 08:07:53 quickdev: its working now. Sep 23 08:08:27 aliases123, how do you get that working? Sep 23 08:08:46 wait no that old suspend suspend bug. nar didn't do anything just rebooted it. Sep 23 08:08:59 seems fine now. Sep 23 08:11:44 aliases123, try to suspend and resume some times.. Sep 23 08:11:48 yeah works wakes up from a phone call. Sep 23 08:12:14 hi Sep 23 08:12:54 aliases123, the problem is the wake up from power button Sep 23 08:13:36 Suspend works good now in 2008.9. Thanks, devs! Sep 23 08:13:55 this makes the phnoe much more usable for me. Sep 23 08:17:03 beni_, for me it doesn't - will try it without usb cable Sep 23 08:17:37 quickdev: i suggest you reboot. Sep 23 08:20:25 WIN. voip for the win :) ! Sep 23 08:21:23 beni_: does suspending still damage big microSDHC cards? Sep 23 08:35:39 sd Sep 23 08:35:44 oops Sep 23 09:07:36 hallo Sep 23 09:20:38 Wonka: never had that issue. Sep 23 09:29:05 beni_: only happens to cards bigger than 2GB, afaik Sep 23 09:37:45 i have a 4gb here Sep 23 09:37:53 and nothing got corrupted Sep 23 09:38:04 is there some reproduce howto? then i will test that Sep 23 09:46:19 freesmartphone.org: 03ainulindale 07libframeworkd-glib * rb40c2162dd5c 10/ (49 files in 5 dirs): Sep 23 09:46:19 freesmartphone.org: Applied quickdev patch for call_release/release_held/release_all "message" parameter removal in ogsmd. Sep 23 09:46:19 freesmartphone.org: Renamed files to set up structure for ulterior frameworkd subsystems implementation. Sep 23 10:03:06 freesmartphone.org: 03ainulindale 07libframeworkd-glib * rdc7836fb477c 10/src/ogsmd/ (11 files): Updated method names according to the subsystem (ogsmd). Sep 23 10:31:46 <[df]> hi, is there a way to check the battery status of the freerunner from a shell? Sep 23 10:33:21 apm Sep 23 10:34:12 can anyone help me? my freerunner screen isn't registering my touch. Sep 23 10:35:12 <[df]> cheers viq Sep 23 10:35:40 can anyone help me with correcting my neo touchscreen? Sep 23 10:42:30 yay It works! Sep 23 10:42:31 trupheenix: what kind of issue do you have? Sep 23 10:42:42 * kth5 is still fighting against the touchscreen Sep 23 10:43:02 click sounds on touch but no coordinates except x=0,y=0 ... ;.; Sep 23 10:49:40 kth5: i opened up mine Sep 23 10:49:48 and reconnected the touch screen to the mother board Sep 23 10:49:58 damn... i'd rather not do that lol Sep 23 10:50:04 [df]: there are some scripts around. Sep 23 10:50:09 kth5: it's EASY!!! Sep 23 10:50:12 that's the best part Sep 23 10:50:21 [df]: http://beni.skyforcesystems.de/openmoko/fast_charge_gta02.sh Sep 23 10:50:28 if i need screwdrivers then it's not :p Sep 23 10:50:38 [df]: thats a shell script i wrote some days ago to test usb charging Sep 23 10:50:48 [df]: it gives you nice stats over charger and battery Sep 23 10:51:05 just wget it and do a `./fast_charge_gta02.sh status` Sep 23 10:57:39 kth5: u can ezly buy them Sep 23 11:21:01 hum. does any own if andriod will be able to run on the freerunner. Sep 23 11:24:52 aliases123: not until it becomes open source enough to recompile it.. the android devices use a slightly newer and incompatible ARM CPU Sep 23 11:25:46 really ? Sep 23 11:27:14 how so. new instruction set or. Sep 23 11:28:55 yeah android is arm 5, the freerunner is arm 4 Sep 23 11:29:31 both are quite old but... Sep 23 11:31:07 depends though what version Sep 23 11:31:17 Xscale PXA27x is ok Sep 23 11:35:56 also the test cases for phone are not / do not seem to be updated in a while. Sep 23 11:50:41 with my checks Tm_T PXA270 is almost 5x faster than the Freerunner Sep 23 11:51:03 methril: depends on the clock but yes, in some way it is Sep 23 11:51:09 only in mogobips ( cat /proc/cpuinfo) Sep 23 11:51:12 :) Sep 23 12:19:27 hi. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Applications has category lists with [+] expansion links, bet expanding them says "nothing found" for all of those Sep 23 12:23:11 Anyone know how to get x2x installed on Om2008 ? Sep 23 12:27:22 i've installed illume-config-illume but i don't have an icon to configure it Sep 23 12:30:38 dns53: remove the dictonary /home/root/.e/ Sep 23 12:30:40 and reboot Sep 23 12:31:40 thanks, i was just removing .e/e/config/illume Sep 23 12:42:02 hello, I had a problem with hidd for remoko: it was saying HID create error 77 (File descriptor in bad state) on my laptop...then i had a success(another day) then It says this again...what could be the cause? Sep 23 12:42:20 and remoko doesn't want to quit Sep 23 12:52:16 <[df]> my opkg is trying to update from buildhost.openmoko.org, which seems to no longer exist - what should I configure it to use? Sep 23 12:52:36 anyone seen this on FSO: /org/freesmartphone/GSM/Device: Register failed: org.freesmartphone.Network.Unauthorized ? Sep 23 12:54:37 ceda: what did CPIN= return? Sep 23 12:54:37 hmm, it went away after an xserver-nodm restart Sep 23 12:55:06 lindi-: it's not in logread's buffer any longer. Can I find it somewhere else? Sep 23 12:55:35 lindi-: I did a init.d/frameworkd restart before restarting xserver (but that didn't seem to help, so I did the restart of xserver) Sep 23 12:55:40 ceda: no idea, i strace or read the log Sep 23 12:55:59 ok. thanks anyway Sep 23 12:56:54 lindi-: you don't happen to know what to do about "om-gta02 daemon.notice modprobe: FATAL: Error inserting ppp_mppe (/lib/modules/2.6.24/kernel/drivers/net/ppp_mppe.ko): No such device" Sep 23 12:56:56 do someone have an idea for my bluetooth problem? or where should I ask for? Sep 23 12:57:11 ceda: what's ppp_mppe? Sep 23 12:57:59 MODULE_DESCRIPTION("Point-to-Point Protocol Microsoft Point-to-Point Encryption support"); Sep 23 12:58:09 ceda: do you really need that? Sep 23 12:58:15 awww Sep 23 12:58:17 hi lindi- Sep 23 12:58:53 hi Sep 23 12:58:55 lindi-, many ISP (in exUSSR for example) use this protocol for vpn connection. Sep 23 12:59:15 max_posedon: over gprs? Sep 23 12:59:26 poccha poo Sep 23 12:59:30 over adsl, wifi, etc Sep 23 13:00:57 lindi-: try to use GPRS without and you'll see :) Sep 23 13:01:16 ceda: i use gprs but i'm not sure if i use ppp_mppe Sep 23 13:01:25 or look at a log from a working setup and you'll se a lot of m-dns stuff Sep 23 13:01:39 lindi-: I suggest you remove it and prove I'm wrong Sep 23 13:01:47 http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/149 Sep 23 13:02:27 ceda: i was only asking questions, not making claims :) Sep 23 13:02:38 no, but I'd be happy if I was wrong Sep 23 13:02:43 careful as always :P Sep 23 13:03:01 or sad since I'd have no clue what to ask the FSO guys to fix Sep 23 13:03:16 GPRS worked fine in all the M2 releases I tried (not many) Sep 23 13:03:30 i'm busy with bug #151 Sep 23 13:03:32 sorry :) Sep 23 13:03:39 now away to eat Sep 23 13:03:44 eat some bugs Sep 23 13:03:45 ;) Sep 23 13:08:15 no i have a little problem, i cant even get the bootloader to show up. how can i fix this? Sep 23 13:17:09 insert battery? :] Sep 23 13:17:34 i might have the 'really dead battery' problem, its been sitting in my drawer for a month... Sep 23 13:17:39 kdubois1: more seriously, if you've let the battery drain it won't start Sep 23 13:18:18 kdubois1: I got my son's Nokia battery and used that to start the freerunner, connected to usb, then changed battery to original Sep 23 13:19:10 isn't there another way? i dont have spare batteries Sep 23 13:19:43 a) get an external battery charger and charge the battery Sep 23 13:20:17 b) get something else that can provide enough power (exact levels are good) for the phone to boot Sep 23 13:20:33 there are no other options Sep 23 13:21:14 (currently, I don't know if they'll ever fix this so that you can charge the battery even if it's "dead") Sep 23 13:22:45 did someone try remoko? Sep 23 13:22:57 so i guess i have a bricked phone then... Sep 23 13:23:49 I heard about a uBoot able to load .. Sep 23 13:27:00 ubu: yes Sep 23 13:27:18 kdubois1: patience! Sep 23 13:27:18 kdubois1: nah, you just drained the only power source you have Sep 23 13:27:44 kdubois1: pull the battery out and leave it out for a few minutes (to make sure that everything is off in the FR) Sep 23 13:28:08 kdubois1: then plug the FR into its charger, and just leave it for several hours. Sep 23 13:28:19 a compatible battery costs around 80€ in Sweden, but one would still need a way to charge it Sep 23 13:28:32 kdubois1: it will charge -- but at a very very low rate (< 100ma) Sep 23 13:29:02 kdubois1: given enough time, the battery will hold enough charge to get to the boot menu, and from there you can get it to the full 1amp charge Sep 23 13:29:11 mwester, ah, ill give that a go. probably safer than me rigging up a power source, like i was currently trying to do... :D Sep 23 13:29:57 Yeah, don't do that yet! That's an option, but you risk damaging the battery unless you have a current-limited bench supply. Sep 23 13:30:04 ceda, ok...i've got an error message on my laptop when doing hidd --connect openmoko's_bluetooth_mac_address : HID create error 77 (File descriptor in bad state) what could be the cause...is it the laptop or the openmoko? Sep 23 13:30:42 ubu: don't know, but I'd guess the laptop Sep 23 13:31:20 mwester, i probably have access to one, if need be, but i'll try this first Sep 23 13:31:56 ceda, on the laptop i tried with both gentoo and ubuntu's livecd and i've fot the same message... Sep 23 13:32:24 bluez-utils version is 3.33-r3 on the openmoko...is it ok? Sep 23 13:32:50 kdubois1: if you're not afraid of getting a bit "practical", somewhere on the lists there's a description of how to make a bodge cable which plugs USB direct to the battery terminals Sep 23 13:33:39 anyone compiled edje files? Sep 23 13:33:45 mmm...i have a python error when running remoko from ssh with export DISPLAY=:0 Sep 23 13:34:05 never Sep 23 13:36:05 kdubois1: here you go, but warnings apply: http://nop0.blogspot.com/2008/09/revive-openmoko-neo-freerunner-with-usb.html Sep 23 13:37:20 yeah, better probably just to wait Sep 23 13:43:35 i really do not recommend connecting lion battery to 5V at USB... Sep 23 13:44:00 A fair degree of likelyhood of explosions Sep 23 13:44:44 in best case it would greatly decrease lifetime of the battery, and in worst case it may explode Sep 23 13:45:36 does not the workaround work for you? that with sitting at u-boot menu for awhile Sep 23 13:46:00 raster: lol @ never having compiled edje files :p Sep 23 13:46:28 ceda, what version of bluez-utils and dbus do you have? Sep 23 13:47:20 Raigedas: it makes a noise like the speaker being powered when i hold aux first, but the screen never turns on Sep 23 13:47:26 :) Sep 23 13:48:48 kdubois1, screen does not turns on even after pressing aux+power? Sep 23 13:48:52 kdubois1: i just connect my FR to 1A charger and wait two hours, after that i can boot it Sep 23 13:49:01 Raigedas: but the battery is never connected while the bodge cable is in place....? Sep 23 13:51:01 weiss, ok i mislooked.. i thought they are connecting 5V to the battery.. Sep 23 13:51:40 Raigedas: no, you trick the FR into believing it's got a battery when really it's running from USB Sep 23 13:51:55 but yes, try *everything* else before resorting to something like that... Sep 23 13:52:02 yes, i see now.. Sep 23 13:52:37 * Weiss is lucky to have lots of nokia-owning friends to help him out when this happens to him :) Sep 23 13:52:47 resolved the problem changing the bluez-utils and dbus Sep 23 13:54:51 so I think i've a big problem: i installed a repo for linphone and then i opkg upgrade...how can i turn back at the time before the upgrade...opkg upgrade --force-downgrade didn't work Sep 23 13:55:06 lindi-, by the way, constant 1A charge for two hours may be way too much. Sep 23 13:56:44 by the way remoko by default(if you don't change the keys) is for what music player? Sep 23 13:58:31 lindi-, i would recommend to charge with 1A charger for about half an hour. it should be more that enough to "jumpstart" (boot) the phone. then let the FR charge and monitor it. Sep 23 14:02:27 what about the music quality of FR? i would say it is terrible. but is it repairable with software or is it a hardware problem (cheap chip, interference, etc)? Sep 23 14:06:13 Raigedas: The audio chip is very, very good. Unfortunately, someone put some components whose values are rather unfortunate between the chip and the output device. Sep 23 14:06:31 :((( Sep 23 14:07:45 are people still having issues with corrupts in SD cards partition table? just wondering as i am just about to buy a microSDHC card and don't want to end up with a paperweight that's not even heavy enough for that task :p Sep 23 14:08:10 sicu: there are workarounds for that. Sep 23 14:09:26 mwester: great! thanks for the heads up =] Sep 23 14:10:42 mwester, so audio chip is not faulty, but is still problem in hardware? Sep 23 14:11:32 houston Sep 23 14:11:33 sicu: a kernel patch was committed last night which may possibly have fixed it.. Sep 23 14:12:07 Yep. Discussed on the mailing lists, looooong time ago -- basically there's a required capacitor between the output of the audio amp and the headset; the value chosen by the original designers was very small, and effectively creates a high-pass filter that removes the bass. Sep 23 14:12:23 This can be mitigated by higher impedance headphones -- if you can find any. Sep 23 14:13:06 mwester, so only one capacitor needs to be changed? Sep 23 14:13:40 Weiss: that's good news! what distro was it comitted to? Sep 23 14:13:45 That is my understanding, Raigedas Sep 23 14:14:07 sicu, Weiss -- I don't think that commit will fix all cases of this problem, but perhaps I'm wrong. Sep 23 14:14:12 ubu: don't know, I change quite a lot Sep 23 14:15:01 I think the solution is to be paranoid completely, and the kernel should switch the SD card clock on full-time during suspend and resume, and switch to the on-demand post-resume Sep 23 14:15:04 ceda, ok i re-installes the bluez from asu-2008.9 and also re-installed dbus and it worked Sep 23 14:15:45 sicu: it's this commit: http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commit;h=9e7ba57b104e9293f746342b7450b10d5fa0c4cd - it'll take a little while to get into any distributions though (be brave and compile your own kernel and do some testing :) Sep 23 14:15:45 mwester: ok, guess we'll just have to wait and see then ... any specific type of SDHC that's recommended, or does that not matter? Sep 23 14:16:03 Dunno about types of SDHC. Sep 23 14:16:19 Weiss: will do as soon as i get my card ;] Sep 23 14:17:15 r.e. building kernels: is there any particular reason why the standard build script doesn't do anything about modules? should i post my (trivial) patch to create a modules tarball as well? Sep 23 14:17:18 There are multiple problems you might face; the commit that Wiess pointed out is required for all SDHC cards that are slow to respond. The problem of which I speak is one where the suspend/resume stuff messes up the clock and damages the partition table. Sep 23 14:18:28 Weiss: I think the reason is that only kernel developers do the non-OE kernel builds, and they don't install modules expect on a as-needed basis. Sep 23 14:18:38 s/expect/except/ Sep 23 14:18:43 mwester: any progress on GSM reregistration? (oscillates) Sep 23 14:18:49 Yep. Sep 23 14:18:58 nice! Sep 23 14:19:20 Test code for guinea pigs to gather data is available, but only for Qtopia. Sep 23 14:19:29 http://moko.mwester.net/ Sep 23 14:19:38 mwester: so if i buy a class6 card, that should eliminate the need of that commit, and i would only face the suspend/resume issue? Sep 23 14:19:49 mwester, ok..so is it possible to build an adapter for having good sound on a hifi-set or on normal headphones? Sep 23 14:20:13 mwester, i googled but did not find anything about sound quality. could you please give url to that mailinglist talk? Sep 23 14:21:02 ubu: I would expect so -- a high-impedance, minimal-gain amplifier would do the job. it would require an external power source - but could probably be built with parts you could get at the corner Radio Shack (or international equivalent type of store) Sep 23 14:21:35 sicu: I wouldnt' feel that confident -- class6 just addresses transfer speed, not initialization time. Sep 23 14:21:51 mwester: ok. will you provide FSO patches or do you plan to fix the issue using only qtopia images? (ie should I get a Qtopia image, add the update, or wait another day for FSO patches and use FSO as I normally do) Sep 23 14:22:02 mwester, ok mabe i'll build one...but i must found schematics before... Sep 23 14:22:02 Raigedas: Search the bugs database; perhaps that will provide some clues. Sep 23 14:22:32 mwester: ah, ok, thanks for clearing things up =] Sep 23 14:22:37 * sicu sympathetically pats mwester on the shoulder for being the center of all questions asked atm Sep 23 14:23:10 ceda: FSO patches will have to wait until I have a bit more time. The problem is that Qtopia has been working *too* well, and I am rather enjoying using my Neo as a real phone! Sep 23 14:23:11 man of the hour (all day round) Sep 23 14:23:13 s/center/target Sep 23 14:24:10 mwester: thanks for begin honest - I try to avoid Qtopia simply because I don't want to get stuck there :) Sep 23 14:24:16 mwester, thanks a lot Sep 23 14:25:19 ceda: You're never stuck unless something deep inside your soul has decided you *want* to be stuck there. :) I do have dual boot, but I've not rebooted because the statistics are just too interesting. Sep 23 14:26:03 true Sep 23 14:28:21 mwester: a last question - has anyone else confirmed GPRS not working or is that ticket concidered a BDU related problem? Sep 23 14:29:36 regression is never fun Sep 23 14:29:39 Dunno. I haven't been following the GPRS stuff at all -- yet. Sep 23 14:30:25 http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/149 looks to me like it's a matter of fixing ppp_mppe Sep 23 14:46:00 oh fuck Sep 23 14:46:04 nownow Sep 23 14:46:18 is not fixed the problem with the pin code in the new om 2008/9 Sep 23 14:46:31 you still get a letter keyboard instead of a number one Sep 23 14:49:07 just go with it Sep 23 14:49:11 or read the topic Sep 23 15:27:20 when i can find help for dfu-util ? Sep 23 15:28:11 df-util --help Sep 23 15:28:13 wiki Sep 23 15:28:22 *dfu-util Sep 23 15:28:27 <[df]> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_the_Neo_FreeRunner told me what I needed Sep 23 15:29:09 i'm trying to submit the package into fedora, but having trouble to get it work right. Sep 23 15:29:18 mwester, or could mplayer with its equalizer solve the problem? Sep 23 15:30:02 it writes successfully and i can boot up the kernel, but after transferring the rootfs the new kernel wont boot anymore either. Sep 23 15:34:38 hello Sep 23 15:34:56 what are the chances of openmoko on htc dream then? Sep 23 15:37:35 zash: no Sep 23 15:37:50 openmoko has to concentrate on its core first Sep 23 15:38:02 but if you like to port it you are free to do it Sep 23 15:41:07 port what? Sep 23 15:42:26 oh nice, i crashed gvim Sep 23 15:42:51 enriko: or install the custom keyboards from 15:45 < enriko> oh fuck Sep 23 15:42:51 15:45 < Tm_T> nownow Sep 23 15:42:51 15:45 < enriko> is not fixed the problem with the pin code in the new om 2008/9 Sep 23 15:42:58 whoops, EPASTE Sep 23 15:43:09 s/stuff/Thomas B Sep 23 15:44:48 lindi-: openmoko from arm4 to arm5.. in theory it should just be recompiling stuff Sep 23 15:50:27 lindi-: port the fso stack to support the htc dream modem Sep 23 16:03:12 zash: Armv5 should be able to run armv4 code with no problems Sep 23 16:03:40 bricode: but arm4 doesn't do arm5 so nicely ? Sep 23 16:04:06 aliases123: Correct. Otherwise Android would be running on the Openmoko already. Sep 23 16:04:11 since it already runns linux Sep 23 16:07:06 bumbl: Would there really need to be much work for the modem? If it supports the AT command set through a serial, it shouldn't be too different. Sep 23 16:08:12 bricode: the at codes could differ Sep 23 16:08:25 and there could be some workarounds Sep 23 16:08:34 for getting the modem to work Sep 23 16:08:45 but, its standard, the nonstandard/optional stuff maby Sep 23 16:08:50 bumbl: That could be true. Hardware is an interesting beast. Sep 23 16:09:05 and suspend and resume might be adapted too Sep 23 16:09:21 mmh, there's bound to be _some_ stuff to tweak for different gsm chips Sep 23 16:09:26 hopefully not too much Sep 23 16:12:02 freesmartphone.org: 03ainulindale 07libframeworkd-glib * re847c922c017 10/src/ogsmd/ (5 files): Forgot to rename calls to dbus_connect_to_gsm_* to dbus_coonnect_to_ogsmd_* Sep 23 16:27:24 coonnect ^ ;) Sep 23 16:38:27 Hi, does anybody know how I could log the AT commands issued by qtopia to establish a GPRS connection? Sep 23 16:38:47 because it actually works with qtopia but it doesn't work when I use the scripts on the wiki Sep 23 16:57:19 I just received my freerunner yesterday and am having problems getting it working. The unit came in with problems with the factory image, so I flashed it with files from here: http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Om2008.8-update/. That allowed the system to boot, but I couldn't get wifi,gps, or gsm working so I flashed it with files from here: http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Om2008.9/ with the same results. Sep 23 16:57:54 izzyb, try FDOM Sep 23 16:58:24 When I try to configure wifi, it sees several access points out there, but wont connect to either my open access point or my WPA access point Sep 23 16:58:27 jaj: look in 'logread' Sep 23 16:58:43 jaj: (i think?) Sep 23 17:00:18 The response I get is: Error: Unable to join network. Also, I can't seem to figure out how to get into terminal. It isn't an option in the home list of apps. Sep 23 17:00:31 Weiss: I'll take a look at it, thanks for the pointer! Sep 23 17:00:32 max_posedon, I'll likely try that next Sep 23 17:00:41 My phone needs a alternative route to internet than wifi, is it possible to make it connect thru USB or is Bluetooth easier? Sep 23 17:01:15 fredrin, usb looks like an option from what I've read, but I haven't tried yet Sep 23 17:01:59 izzyb: how do i do that? Sep 23 17:02:03 <[df]> usb is fairly easy if you're connecting through a linux machine Sep 23 17:02:31 i'm on a linux machine, but not quite sure how to do make it 'fairly' :) Sep 23 17:02:52 <[df]> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networkingdd Sep 23 17:03:15 <[df]> er, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking Sep 23 17:04:14 fredrin: USB networking should be absolutely dead easy to get working.. and with a little more effort you can make it work automagically Sep 23 17:05:05 Weiss: i got usb networking working, but only to connect to the Neo, i cant connect to the internet from the neo over usb Sep 23 17:05:20 so what do people think of Android? Are we going to see a port for the FR? Sep 23 17:05:28 just one way Sep 23 17:05:38 break-free: news about Android? Sep 23 17:05:49 fredrin: should just be a case of adding a couple of iptables rules and telling the Neo to use your computer as the gateway Sep 23 17:06:19 Weiss: iptables on the neo or my desktop? Sep 23 17:06:22 fredrin, google and tmobile had a press conference showing off the "T-Mobile G1", running android Sep 23 17:06:36 break-free, I hate java(for example), so I didn't interesting in android at all. Sep 23 17:07:12 yeah that makes sense Sep 23 17:07:32 fredrin: your desktop - you need to tell it to masquerade packets coming from the neo (think this is all on the USB networking page of the wiki) Sep 23 17:09:00 Weiss: ok, thanks, i'll do some monkeing Sep 23 17:09:54 do people have wifi working on the Om2008.8/.9 builds? Sep 23 17:10:19 Is there a way to view the connection logs? Sep 23 17:16:13 http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/23/t-mobile-g1-first-hands-on/ Sep 23 17:16:19 looks exciting ;] Sep 23 17:16:24 though i still prefer the moko ;] Sep 23 17:21:43 the phone doesn't seem to work either. putting my SIM card in causes it to correctly identify my carrier (Rogers), but calls to the phone go straight to vmail and calling out results in instant disconnection. Sep 23 17:22:41 any fso developers here? Sep 23 17:24:05 toggles_w, there are some fso users if you want ;] Sep 23 17:24:19 Many of the docs I've found talk about needing to use the terminal to run commands. How do I access the terminal? Sep 23 17:24:32 TAsn: lol thanks, i was wondering hot to check in patches to zhone Sep 23 17:24:36 or really where they want them Sep 23 17:25:17 each patch has it's own thing i guess. Sep 23 17:25:29 though im saying that without ever seeing one for zhone. Sep 23 17:26:03 i think i will just attach to a bug report Sep 23 17:33:12 join #freesmartphone.org Sep 23 17:34:31 ?:> Sep 23 17:34:55 soltys: :P Sep 23 17:35:57 izzyb: which distribution are you running, om2008.8/9 does not ship with the terminal installed, you can install it using the installer if you set USB networking up or just ssh in via USB Sep 23 17:36:40 how do I ssh via usb? Sep 23 17:37:24 I'm currently running om2008.9 Sep 23 17:37:41 izzyb, do you have usbnet running on your pc? Sep 23 17:38:01 and downloading fdom Sep 23 17:38:23 izzyb: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Usb_networking set this up first Sep 23 17:38:48 then at a console on your machine type ssh root@192.168.0.202 Sep 23 17:39:04 thanks. working on it now... Sep 23 17:42:21 hum, do Ubuntu Hardy come with the right config in the kernel to make Neo -> USB -> Laptop -> Internets work? Sep 23 17:42:45 fredrin, you can check /proc/config.gz Sep 23 17:43:07 fredrin: yes, it works for me (TM) Sep 23 17:43:29 fredrin: yes, but you need to set up the usb0 network interface on the laptop accordingly Sep 23 17:43:57 fredrin: it should as ubuntu claims to be noob friendly Sep 23 17:44:08 fredrin: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Usb_networking#Debian.2C_Ubuntu_and_others Sep 23 17:44:11 so you don't have to compile your own kernel Sep 23 17:45:52 max_posedon: ok, i'll look there, Sep 23 17:47:14 I have a question for someone familar with openmoko hardware... for the purpose of the openhearing.org project... does openmoko hardware have an on-board DSP? My efforts to google this have come up with some vague suggestions that maybe the answer is "no". Sep 23 17:47:33 ceda: i've set up the interface and networking files like said in the Wiki, but still i think something is missing, since i just cant ping my rounter from the Neo, just my laptop on 192.168.0.200 Sep 23 17:48:10 So, has anyone installed Openmoko on an iPhone yet? :p Sep 23 17:48:35 fredrin: did you set the gateway address on the Neo to be your laptop? Sep 23 17:48:52 max_posedon: I don't have a /proc/config.gz Sep 23 17:48:58 Weiss: no, how do i do that? Sep 23 17:49:11 fredrin, may be you have /boot/config*? Sep 23 17:49:18 fredrin: "route add default gw 192.whatever" Sep 23 17:49:20 Dave: that would degrade a working multimedia phone to something that only can send sms and do phonecalls. So guess no Sep 23 17:49:34 Davey Sep 23 17:49:40 Sure someone would do it. Sep 23 17:49:43 Hey Bumble Sep 23 17:49:43 max_posedon: yes :) Sep 23 17:50:04 fredrin, so check there) Sep 23 17:50:13 dolf1074: it is open though Sep 23 17:50:22 that's the price you have to pay Sep 23 17:50:42 Weiss: is that 192.168.0.200 or my normal gateway 192.168.1.1 Sep 23 17:50:51 yes but iphone users has already payed a high price for getting working software, I don't think they will do it twice Sep 23 17:51:10 My question was not directed at iPhone users. Sep 23 17:51:12 fredrin, check the usb networking manual on wiki. Sep 23 17:51:13 fredrin: the address of your laptop (192.168.0.200) Sep 23 17:51:14 THIS IS OPENMOKO Sep 23 17:52:15 max_posedon: I've been reading it... Sep 23 17:53:22 route add default gw 192.168.0.200 ---> route: SIOCADDRT: File exists ?? Sep 23 17:54:16 fredrin: are you doing that on the Neo? Sep 23 17:54:24 yes Sep 23 17:54:51 what do you see in 'route -n' on the Neo? Sep 23 17:55:25 Kernel IP routing table Sep 23 17:55:26 Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface Sep 23 17:55:28 192.168.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 usb0 Sep 23 17:55:30 0.0.0.0 192.168.0.200 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 usb0 Sep 23 17:55:55 looks good to me Sep 23 17:56:25 are you trying to ping your router using its IP address or a name? Sep 23 17:56:31 traceroute or ping just cant get through my laptop Sep 23 17:56:36 IP Sep 23 17:56:58 my router is 192.168.1.1 Sep 23 17:58:14 i Sep 23 17:58:15 fredrin: hmm, seems like your neo is on 192.168.0.* network though.. with a submask 255.255.255.0, it wont be able to reach your 192.168.1.x network Sep 23 17:58:28 what is the output of iptables -L on your PC? Sep 23 17:59:02 fredrin, Did you created all iptables rules? and ip_forward setted to "1"? Sep 23 17:59:41 Blastur: the laptop should route the traffic properly (the Neo's not *meant* to be on the 192.168.1.x network) Sep 23 18:00:04 bernt: looks like nada Sep 23 18:00:16 max_posedon: I've cut'paste the freerunner script from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking#Debian.2C_Ubuntu_and_others Sep 23 18:01:13 fredrin: did you remember to chmod +x /etc/network/freerunner? Sep 23 18:01:50 fredrin: you can start it also manually Sep 23 18:01:53 Weiss: heheheheh, i forgot that... Sep 23 18:02:40 fredrin: and the result of /etc/network/freerunner start ? Sep 23 18:04:24 bernt: think it runs, no output Sep 23 18:04:30 fredrin, if cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward on your desktop returns 0 then you need to run sudo sysctl -w net.ipv4.ip_forward=1 Sep 23 18:05:03 fredrin, try ping 192.168.1.1 from FR Sep 23 18:05:17 brian Sep 23 18:06:25 need to reboot the Neo, brb Sep 23 18:06:27 Temris: i was set to 1 Sep 23 18:07:14 what is the difference between jff2 and the tar.gz root images? Sep 23 18:07:34 oh, and I got ssh to the phone working.. thanks Sep 23 18:09:19 izzyb: .tar.gz images are for dual booting jff2 and jff2.summary are for flashing Sep 23 18:09:26 TIG Sep 23 18:09:30 DAVE! Sep 23 18:09:38 We hear you. Sep 23 18:09:54 izzyb, tar.gz for microsd jffs for nand flash) Sep 23 18:09:54 dual booting as in from a pc Sep 23 18:10:04 oh, I see Sep 23 18:10:22 nope dual booting on the freerunner Sep 23 18:10:43 got it! :) Sep 23 18:14:12 if qtopia suspends, can you receive calls? Sep 23 18:14:29 Tuju: I believe so but it would be simple to test :) Sep 23 18:14:47 even simpler to rise an intresting discussion here :) Sep 23 18:14:47 it would be a bit silly if it didn't :) Sep 23 18:14:59 Tig|: my thoughts exactly Sep 23 18:16:26 Tig, openmoko doesn't do it... yet :P Sep 23 18:16:41 Dave: it does here Sep 23 18:16:46 sometimes Sep 23 18:17:13 heh Sep 23 18:17:16 SOMETIMES Sep 23 18:17:18 when it wants to ;) Sep 23 18:18:10 it can be a grumpy so and so sometimes and sulks :) Sep 23 18:18:24 like an old person! :D Sep 23 18:18:55 apart that sw is quite devel mode still, i like the speed of device. Sep 23 18:19:15 but that also might have somehting to do with the speedy battery drainage...... :) Sep 23 18:20:02 whee Sep 23 18:22:17 Hi, is there a .bashrc which is actually loaded by Om 20088? Sep 23 18:23:39 /etc/profile ? Sep 23 18:23:57 otherwise, I am inclined to believe no. Sep 23 18:27:39 Hi all Sep 23 18:27:49 I think /etc/profile failed too, I try again anyway. Sep 23 18:28:24 I'm beginning to despair ever getting some minimally audible sound quality when on a phone call... Sep 23 18:28:45 hm, actually that runs. but it sets "$" in PS1, and I want to modify the root version, which has "#" somewhere defined. Sep 23 18:28:46 Either the opposite end has lots of echo, or they can't hear me at all, or both... Sep 23 18:29:15 All the .state files I've tried only fixed one of the problem, not both. Sep 23 18:29:35 Is that problem worked on, or must I keep a phone in addition to my Freerunner? Sep 23 18:30:46 There's one track I haven't tried yet, the secret GSM command to turn on hardware echo cancellation... d'you think it can be fitted into 2007.2 (by hand if needed)? Sep 23 18:31:03 Dave: well, it's cool. I forced a #-ending prompt, but still better than the very long original one. Thanks! (and also "alias vi=vim is now added :) Sep 23 18:31:15 Hooray! Sep 23 18:31:19 Mission Accomplished :D Sep 23 18:31:25 :D Sep 23 18:31:33 next, Wifi :D Sep 23 18:31:41 No lease, failing Sep 23 18:31:58 I did everything from here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wifi Sep 23 18:32:39 LionKMP: Wifi is no fun, sucky drivers Sep 23 18:32:55 fredrin: divers?? Neo FR has one single chipset in all our phones. Sep 23 18:33:06 so needs only one driver to work. Sep 23 18:34:08 mmmkay, drivers driver Sep 23 18:40:09 hi gang. Has anyone gotten any luck playing video (with audio) at a decent framerate on the FR? Are my hopes of using my FR as a portable video player dashed? Sep 23 18:41:14 http://lion.xaraya.hu/pictures/openmoko-om2008.8/22-mplayer.png Sep 23 18:41:35 worked ok.(not perfect, that's true) Sep 23 18:41:53 needed to make sure nothing else takes CPU, e.g. gesd takes 15%, that kills playing. Sep 23 18:42:23 and of course recompressed the video to 320x240 as explained on the wiki. Sep 23 18:42:46 LionKMP: With audio? Sep 23 18:43:06 yes, I think that file has an MP3 audio track (I check) Sep 23 18:43:51 does anybody know when GTA03 is supposed to arrive to the market? Sep 23 18:44:24 nobody does Sep 23 18:44:37 Santa Claus maybe ;) Sep 23 18:44:38 I mean approximately Sep 23 18:44:45 :) Sep 23 18:44:51 Approximately? This decade ;) Sep 23 18:44:58 hopefully Sep 23 18:45:06 ok, how long did took to gta02/ Sep 23 18:45:07 ? Sep 23 18:45:13 loooong ;) Sep 23 18:45:18 I expect the Openmoko guys may have learnt their lesson, and decide not to release a new phone until it can be readily used as a phone. Sep 23 18:45:26 Andre613: AUDIO: 48000 Hz, 2 ch, s16le, 128.0 kbit/8.33% (ratio: 16000->192000) (however I don't understand this :) ) Sep 23 18:45:37 vig: you do realise saying "this decade" equates to saying "next year" ? Sep 23 18:45:46 how many years after gta01? Sep 23 18:45:52 ieatlint: Or the following... Sep 23 18:45:53 :D Sep 23 18:45:55 ieatlint: depends if you count from 0 or 1 Sep 23 18:46:02 01 Sep 23 18:46:06 1 Sep 23 18:46:12 century is counted from 1, not decade Sep 23 18:46:18 Well, ok Sep 23 18:46:19 LionKMP: Thanks! I'll check it out tonight Sep 23 18:46:35 np :) if one does not work, try another! Sep 23 18:46:48 decade is a relative term, hence it doesn't have that issue :) Sep 23 18:47:10 How about "somewhere within a decade" ? ;) Sep 23 18:47:13 how many years it took to gta02 to follow gta01? Sep 23 18:47:32 1, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything Sep 23 18:47:40 zeev: hehe, dunno, try searching for announcement on the net. but that has NOTHING to do with gta02-gta03 period. Sep 23 18:47:55 the gta02 was like an upgraded gta01, the gta03 wll have a lot more changes, and could have a longer dev time as such Sep 23 18:47:57 Lintball! Sep 23 18:48:04 btw when is the next hardware revision of the openmoko will be available in the stores? Sep 23 18:48:05 hey dave Sep 23 18:48:11 Hi Dave Sep 23 18:48:11 So maybe three years from now? Sep 23 18:48:12 LionKMP: is that green day? Sep 23 18:48:12 ! Sep 23 18:48:14 Zilla :D Sep 23 18:48:15 I'd really like if they concentrated on making the software ready first. Sep 23 18:48:21 nyu: yep :) Sep 23 18:48:29 :D Sep 23 18:48:39 LionKMP: I liked the older songs better :-P Sep 23 18:48:51 Yes :D Sep 23 18:48:55 Lo-lan-do, openmoko is a hardware company, not a software company Sep 23 18:49:08 nyu: I like all of them :-p Sep 23 18:49:22 :) Sep 23 18:49:31 zeev: hesitating to buy gta02, or why asking? Sep 23 18:49:32 lint, you could have fooled me :) Sep 23 18:49:38 yes Sep 23 18:49:40 ieatlint: They still need to sell telephones... as shown by the gta02 backlash. Sep 23 18:49:47 I would like to have a camera Sep 23 18:49:53 zeev: it's great fun to have it. :) Sep 23 18:50:07 hehe, then buy a camera. Sep 23 18:50:16 Lo-lan-do, i haven't seen any real backlash, save for the hardware gps and audio quality issues Sep 23 18:50:29 Lo-lan-do, they outright refer to the phone as being for delevopers and such... Sep 23 18:50:42 or the ability to run android os on OM hardware? Sep 23 18:50:43 how do you *send* a sms message that is ready to be sent? Sep 23 18:50:51 on qtopia Sep 23 18:50:57 they do have some software people, and they do aid the software dev in many ways, but their business model is hardware Sep 23 18:50:58 I know, I'm just bitter that I still can't use it as a basic phone. Sep 23 18:50:59 zeev: all photos I make with my mobile (2Mpixel) suck big time. so I am not missing it at all. Sep 23 18:51:00 and their focus is hardware Sep 23 18:51:02 hello Sep 23 18:51:14 somebody use tangoGPS on asu? Sep 23 18:51:18 (Because of audio quality) Sep 23 18:51:47 pd_: yes Sep 23 18:52:09 LionKMP: how do you made it works? on asu? Sep 23 18:52:23 LionKMP: on my device all buttons didnt work Sep 23 18:52:25 what's a good and simplistic graphics editing/creation program? (ie, not gimp -- i want simplistic, not 50 billion features) Sep 23 18:52:40 pd_: I did nothing special, installed it and it worked. :( (2008.8 you mean I guess) Sep 23 18:52:40 ieatlint: tuxpaint Sep 23 18:52:47 thx Sep 23 18:52:59 pd_: which version do you have? Sep 23 18:53:10 LionKMP: yes 2008.8 im reciving fixes from sat but tango didnt work Sep 23 18:53:19 "Drawing program designed for young children" ... very funny Sep 23 18:53:26 pd_: I use this: 0.9.3-r1 Sep 23 18:53:29 LionKMP: 2008.8 daily 20080923 as far as i know Sep 23 18:53:48 I mean which version of tangogps Sep 23 18:53:51 LionKMP: yep i install tango from tango main page (0.9.3.r1) Sep 23 18:54:11 hm, ok, same here. strange, it works ok here. Sep 23 18:55:35 LionKMP: other apps like openmoko location and openmoko agps-ui working fine ... but not tango Sep 23 18:56:09 LionKMP: did you download maps? before use tango? Sep 23 18:56:11 So, I got a problem. I've just installed 2008.9 hoping to get better mileage out of the wifi. But after a boot it's says "wifi unknown", so I remove /etc/volatile.cache and reboot. Then I can see my network.... AND NOW IT WORKS!!! ... srry I Just had to share:-) Sep 23 18:56:53 pd_: not in advance. I downloaded maps directly from tangogps. Sep 23 18:57:12 Kraften: wooow. cool. It does not work for me at all. Sep 23 18:58:32 LionKMP>>> Are you on a unsecure network? Sep 23 18:58:45 Kraften: no, WPA2 + AES Sep 23 18:58:53 LionKMP: how usable is om2008 now? Sep 23 18:59:12 nyu: what do you want to know?! Sep 23 18:59:23 LionKMP>>>srry, can not help you then... Sep 23 18:59:24 LionKMP: Kraften: my wifi works fine on 2008.8 (secured wifi with wp2-psk) Sep 23 18:59:25 nyu: it can play green day :D Sep 23 18:59:29 LionKMP: is it less buggy than om2007? Sep 23 18:59:53 uhm Sep 23 18:59:56 nyu: for me 2008.8 is better but this crappy tangoGPS... Sep 23 19:00:09 my main problem with Wifi is that: router, openmoko, sony-ericcson p1i all uses different 3-letter magic words. Sep 23 19:00:15 so I cannot "match" them. Sep 23 19:00:16 actually I seem to be unable to update to the latest om2007. are repositories operative? Sep 23 19:00:44 nyu: I don't know, I uninstalled 2007.2 on the first week and that was long time ago :) Sep 23 19:00:58 btw, do all these systems use the same format for contact list? Sep 23 19:01:18 I don't know. Sep 23 19:01:23 LionKMP: does battery live long with om2008? Sep 23 19:02:03 nyu: once I made a track for 5-6 hours with lowest brightness. And another for 4 hours with high brigtness, that's the max I think. Sep 23 19:02:07 currently, my biggest nuissances are battery diing fast, clicks occasionaly not responding in the app launcher, and 'lock screen' occasionally not responding Sep 23 19:02:09 but of course it has suspend mode. Sep 23 19:02:17 so it can be on for long that way. Sep 23 19:02:46 LionKMP: can you attend calls in suspend mode? Sep 23 19:02:53 I can't see this mode in om2007 Sep 23 19:02:56 I did not measure battery, because I often connect to PC and it charges. you know.. Sep 23 19:03:21 I do that too. but a few days ago I spent the whole day out, and it died :-/ Sep 23 19:03:24 nyu: calls wake up the phone, yes. Sep 23 19:03:44 nyu: do you have suspend in 2007.2? Sep 23 19:03:50 I can't find it Sep 23 19:04:01 if it's there, must be well hidden ;-) Sep 23 19:04:19 hehe, then upgrade :) see my 2008.8 screenshots here: http://lion.xaraya.hu/pictures/openmoko-om2008.8/ :) Sep 23 19:04:23 what cool features are there in om2008? Sep 23 19:04:46 looks nice Sep 23 19:04:56 are these integrated with the gui, or launched via cmdline? Sep 23 19:05:04 gestures is fun. But I don't run it continously, because it takes 15% CPU! Sep 23 19:05:21 mplayer - command line, the rest was from GUI. Sep 23 19:05:36 however installation requires command line + ssh. Sep 23 19:05:41 and some setup too. Sep 23 19:05:44 that's ok Sep 23 19:06:08 see cool keyboard on 13-tangogps Sep 23 19:06:09 you need command-line for playing music too? Sep 23 19:06:45 hm, I didn't succeed with any music player yet. maybe I didn't even try one. I played radio with mplayer :) Sep 23 19:08:18 LionKMP: any worth-noting bugs? Sep 23 19:08:31 LionKMP: do you use it as everyday phone? Sep 23 19:08:39 LionKMP: The Qtopia media player isn't playing mp3s for you, then? :) Sep 23 19:08:42 LEINIR Sep 23 19:08:52 * leinir curtsies to Dave "Sir" :) Sep 23 19:09:00 * Dave plays leinir Sep 23 19:09:01 screw mp3s. me wants ogg :-P Sep 23 19:09:16 nyu: no fulltime phone, just having fun in the evenings :( Sep 23 19:09:19 and flac Sep 23 19:09:31 nyu: well, sure :) Sep 23 19:09:33 anyone around using om2008 as everyday phone? Sep 23 19:09:49 Would any sane person do that? Sep 23 19:09:52 leinir: hm... what's the package name? Sep 23 19:09:55 nyu: me ;) Sep 23 19:09:59 haw :P Sep 23 19:10:02 Dave: sane people use symbian Sep 23 19:10:15 heh Sep 23 19:10:22 but we got free will Sep 23 19:10:25 LionKMP: i'm not sure there... try searching for qtopia, though, should show up :) Sep 23 19:10:31 pd_: how well does it work? Sep 23 19:10:31 nyu: it's funny thing. once I got a call, rining, but nothing was displayed to answer the call :D Sep 23 19:10:52 pd_: any note-worthy bugs? Sep 23 19:11:03 Man, openmoko is like the first phone software to defy time. Sep 23 19:11:08 * nyu is considering dual-boot with qtopia and debian Sep 23 19:11:26 Yesterday, I got a call, that was placed ten minutes after I received it :D Sep 23 19:11:33 nyu: pretty buggy (no pin dialog is displaying pretty much time) but after success in reg process is stable Sep 23 19:11:45 Leinir, have you ever experienced this? :P Sep 23 19:11:49 pd_: what reg process? Sep 23 19:11:53 Dave: :D Sep 23 19:12:08 Dave: i can't say that i have :) Sep 23 19:12:09 LionKing, no wonder I couldn't hear them on the other end! Sep 23 19:12:12 :P Sep 23 19:12:13 nyu: sim card registration process Sep 23 19:12:18 Must have been the time distortions Sep 23 19:12:29 :D Sep 23 19:12:30 :P Sep 23 19:12:30 LionKMP: gps is pre-installed and integrated with om2008? Sep 23 19:12:38 pd_: ah, but that is optional? Sep 23 19:12:40 nyu, I don't think so Sep 23 19:12:44 my sim is password-less Sep 23 19:12:50 nyu: ehm? it's hardware. what do you mean? Sep 23 19:12:50 good Sep 23 19:12:56 if u use fdom tango is installed Sep 23 19:12:57 He means like FSO Sep 23 19:12:59 guys ladies please describe how to use tangoGPS on 2008.8 ... Sep 23 19:13:00 LionKMP: I mean tangogps Sep 23 19:13:08 slaxxin: fdom? Sep 23 19:13:08 nyu: "Locations" is pre-installed anyway. No, tango you must install manually. Sep 23 19:13:10 PD, READ THE DOCUMENTATION Sep 23 19:13:16 nyu: it's in the repo but one version older! Sep 23 19:13:18 (on the tangogps site) Sep 23 19:13:26 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FDOM Sep 23 19:13:31 Dave: he can't press the buttons, it does not work. Sep 23 19:13:36 huh? Sep 23 19:13:37 an it does work Sep 23 19:13:40 nyu: if your card require code it is impossible to reg sim card without it Sep 23 19:13:40 In the software, on the hardware? Sep 23 19:13:48 slaxxin: great. give me more options please, I'm not confused enough :-/ Sep 23 19:13:56 how big are his fingers? :D Sep 23 19:14:01 Dave: buttons on tangogps. :D Sep 23 19:14:03 this is the best 2008 option Sep 23 19:14:07 haha, oh :P Sep 23 19:14:11 use the force? Sep 23 19:14:18 or a stylus? :P Sep 23 19:14:23 Dave: thx but i already read it ... and after start tango freezes Sep 23 19:14:25 I use 2008.8 because it IS the openmoko os. (not debian, not qtopipa) Sep 23 19:14:29 uhh Sep 23 19:14:32 reinstall it then? Sep 23 19:14:42 put fdom on the freerunner then dual boot qtopia Sep 23 19:15:00 pd_: is om2008 more stable than om2007? Sep 23 19:15:02 or whatever Sep 23 19:15:16 btw, what do most people use? Sep 23 19:15:27 whatever they want Sep 23 19:15:35 let's list Sep 23 19:15:37 * LionKMP 2008.8 Sep 23 19:15:39 * cjb using FSOv3. Sep 23 19:15:45 2008.8 fdom Sep 23 19:15:48 Ieatlint, if I started a spinoff business called Failbus, do you think people or bus companies would want to use it? Sep 23 19:15:49 nyu: dunno ... 2007.2 was on my device ca 2 days :) Sep 23 19:15:58 cjb, how's that going for you? ;) Sep 23 19:16:07 2008 is ca 1 month :) Sep 23 19:16:09 <[df]> 2008.8 currently, might give qtopia a try Sep 23 19:16:21 Qtopia 4.3.3 snapshot here, and looking forward to 4.4 :) Sep 23 19:16:28 Aren't we all :P Sep 23 19:16:41 leinir: is qtopia stable? Sep 23 19:16:44 Leinir, we should have a party sometime! Sep 23 19:16:46 ,, well. sorry there will be no qtopia 4.4 Sep 23 19:16:48 going to put qtopia 4.4 on sd when its released Sep 23 19:16:53 Nyu, more stable than anything else that I've seen. Sep 23 19:16:59 nyu: Absolutely :) Sep 23 19:17:04 lpotter: eh? Sep 23 19:17:08 ok 4.3.4 Sep 23 19:17:13 Lorn, what!? Sep 23 19:17:18 :D Sep 23 19:17:21 when you migrate om2007 to qtopia, you get to preserve the contact list, right? Sep 23 19:17:28 lpotter: You are an evil, evil person ;) Sep 23 19:17:31 4.3.3-special-lorn-edition!? Sep 23 19:17:35 leinir, you said it! :P Sep 23 19:17:44 bah, but qtopia is not x11 Sep 23 19:17:45 that sucks Sep 23 19:17:49 Where's mwester when you need him :P Sep 23 19:17:50 bah Sep 23 19:18:00 dont need no stinkin' X Sep 23 19:18:03 gah, got access to the internet over usb from the neo now, pewh, after some reboots, changeing things in interfaces and switching from qtopia to OM2008.9 things started to work :D Sep 23 19:18:04 nyu: Someone's working on an x11 viewport for it, so there ya go :) Sep 23 19:18:07 my problem is I have no clue what I want Sep 23 19:18:17 then you want qtopia Sep 23 19:18:17 just put fdom on when u get tired of messing around Sep 23 19:18:28 lpotter: but it got no x11 Sep 23 19:18:30 no! qtoia! Sep 23 19:18:31 leinir, have you installed KDE on your freerunner yet? :P Sep 23 19:18:38 Dave: Nah :) Sep 23 19:18:41 ah Sep 23 19:18:45 Finally gave that up, did we? :) Sep 23 19:18:48 nyu: and thats bad... .why? Sep 23 19:18:57 lpotter: can't run x11 apps Sep 23 19:19:09 such as...? Sep 23 19:19:13 lpotter: wesnoth Sep 23 19:19:17 hahahahaha Sep 23 19:19:19 I want debian, since the Neo is more like a computer with phone capabilities, than a phone with computer capabilities, more like the iPhone than some professional Noika phone Sep 23 19:19:25 Is that your sole reason for using the freerunner? Sep 23 19:19:45 nyu, what's wrong with wesnoth? Sep 23 19:19:49 "I want to be able to receive calls while I'm playing Battle for Wesnoth" Sep 23 19:19:58 ha Sep 23 19:20:05 Dave: buy a iphone and a laptop :P Sep 23 19:20:10 fuck that Sep 23 19:20:11 Dave: my purposes are (in priority order): make/receive calls/sms; do nifty things that impress my friends and everyone around me, giving me a false sense of self-fulfillment Sep 23 19:20:13 I don't want either :p Sep 23 19:20:24 I'll stick with the eeepc thank you Sep 23 19:20:26 (or buy the new Android phone) Sep 23 19:20:31 It's kind of a kinky combination between the two Sep 23 19:20:34 cjb, sounds good Sep 23 19:20:42 lpotter: still cannot reveal when we can expect 4.4? Sep 23 19:20:45 I believe I get one or two, we'll see how they do :) Sep 23 19:20:46 Dave: ah, and freedom Sep 23 19:20:55 which is somewhere between the other two Sep 23 19:20:58 Bill: nope. just soon Sep 23 19:21:29 Gnutoo: nothing. lack of x11 is wrong with qtopia Sep 23 19:21:43 * lpotter thinks thats a good thing Sep 23 19:21:46 nyu, ah the qtopia image... Sep 23 19:21:55 Hey lorn Sep 23 19:22:03 I think I'll try om2008 Sep 23 19:22:05 Do you still maintain that qtopia apps repo thing Sep 23 19:22:08 or did it officially die? Sep 23 19:22:13 om2008 is the most mainstream option, right? Sep 23 19:22:15 Greetings, Sargun. Sep 23 19:22:16 The Qtopia image is quite great, except it has the GSM buzz. Sep 23 19:22:18 And the volume is too low. Sep 23 19:22:21 lpotter: I think also that a good thing for you. Less pressure to get the thing out and make errors. Sep 23 19:22:27 still, but the machine that qtopia.net is, is dieing Sep 23 19:22:29 paulproteus, and it needs more gps apps. Sep 23 19:22:33 But working power management keeps my phone alive for four to five days between charges. Sep 23 19:22:36 That's what really excites me. (-: Sep 23 19:22:47 lpotter, oh, so would that account for the response problems people have been complaining about? Sep 23 19:22:59 disk IO errors Sep 23 19:23:00 and it going offline intermittantly Sep 23 19:23:02 uggh Sep 23 19:23:03 Greetings Dave. Sep 23 19:23:05 FAILURE Sep 23 19:23:09 I can't let you do that. Sep 23 19:23:16 * Dave stabs Sargun Sep 23 19:23:23 does qtopia use the same format as OM for contact list? Sep 23 19:23:36 Dave: we are currently working to move the software/db over to a whiz-bang new server Sep 23 19:23:49 whiz-bang == brand new? Sep 23 19:23:55 yep Sep 23 19:23:59 Ah, good. Sep 23 19:24:01 paulproteus: your gta02 had been alive for four days between charges?? Sep 23 19:24:05 instead of one theats 7 years old Sep 23 19:24:07 Maybe that will improve the performance :P Sep 23 19:24:08 haha Sep 23 19:24:11 i mean including the suspended time Sep 23 19:24:25 It's like us, we've got some fucking old-ass clusters on a 12GB line Sep 23 19:25:00 It's like... what the fuck? We can ALL tell where the bottlenecks are! When it takes you 7s to get a shell :P Sep 23 19:25:18 paulproteus: so you have a working phone for 5 days with a normal qtopia image with power management on? Sep 23 19:25:37 balrog-k1n, Well so far it's only two or three days, but the battery claimed to be around 1/4 to 1/2 drained, and it wasn't a full charge I think. Sep 23 19:25:53 Basically, I no longer worry about charging it, and I expect it to be dead, and when I go to it, in fact it tells me about missed calls. Sep 23 19:26:07 paulproteus: wow, great Sep 23 19:26:17 paulproteus: and no side effects? Sep 23 19:26:20 cool Sep 23 19:26:24 "side effects"? Sep 23 19:26:30 can you dual-boot qtopia with something else just fine? Sep 23 19:26:33 Well I do find myself drowsier than usual. Sep 23 19:26:39 But that probably isn't related to the phone. Sep 23 19:26:59 I actually removed the uSD card recently, since I didn't want Qtopia or the phone wasting power or time scanning it. Sep 23 19:27:02 heh Sep 23 19:27:11 So it's possible the battery life would be worse with that in. Sep 23 19:27:30 Maybe I'll go find it right now and plug it in to charge. Sep 23 19:27:32 paulproteus: it doesnt scan for docs all the time. Sep 23 19:27:43 paulproteus: thanks, now I will definitely try qtopia Sep 23 19:27:44 only at startup and when you want to access documents Sep 23 19:27:55 Yeah, honestly, I never understood the point of that Document Scanning functionality. Sep 23 19:27:58 Sweet! It's still on. Sep 23 19:28:09 Dave: it finds ithem for you Sep 23 19:28:09 lpotter, Duly noted. Sep 23 19:28:12 but qtopia on the sdisk will be worser for battery (i think)? Sep 23 19:28:14 Find what? Sep 23 19:28:17 files? Sep 23 19:28:25 There, now it's charging. Sep 23 19:28:27 documents Sep 23 19:28:29 It just seemed like a cheesey graphical interface to a locate db Sep 23 19:28:31 ok, so qtopia is the way to go :-) Sep 23 19:28:32 What are "Documents" ? Sep 23 19:28:37 paulproteus: thanks! Sep 23 19:28:44 config files? libraries? porn? Sep 23 19:28:50 nyu, It's really really quite heartening. Sep 23 19:28:52 e) All of the above? Sep 23 19:28:59 e) I hope Sep 23 19:29:24 well. if you put libraries on the sd card, its gonna scan them, and present them to you Sep 23 19:30:19 hi all, i got my free runner today and want to send a text message. i can write it, but i can;t find the send button!?!? om 2007.2 any hints Sep 23 19:30:42 Oh, they have to be on the SD card? Sep 23 19:30:56 edje, it's on the top, the Mail-like icon. Sep 23 19:30:57 Dave: that or in ~/Documents Sep 23 19:31:14 if you just use the gui it puts the Documents in the correct place to find them Sep 23 19:31:17 Lpotter, that seems not particularly useful, unless you can configure or filter it's scannability. Sep 23 19:31:22 yeah yeah Sep 23 19:31:30 I just don't fully see what people would use that for. Sep 23 19:31:37 Dave: i tried the icon, but nothing hapens. ( no message in send items) Sep 23 19:31:43 Dave: thats what Storage.conf is for Sep 23 19:31:43 edje: had that, too Sep 23 19:32:05 edje, try changing your message Sep 23 19:32:07 Dave: but its usually setup by the integrator Sep 23 19:32:14 sometimes even though it was under the character length it wouldn't send for me Sep 23 19:32:17 weird. Sep 23 19:32:18 Dave: censorship! Sep 23 19:32:21 Dave: as normal users wont have ssh access Sep 23 19:32:26 I had to break it up or shorten the number of carriage returns :P Sep 23 19:32:30 nyu, totally Sep 23 19:32:39 Lpotter, uh huh... Sep 23 19:32:47 Well, I guess that's alright., Sep 23 19:32:52 sms are CRLF? Sep 23 19:32:56 I'd rather it scan and entire tree... Sep 23 19:33:05 nyu, some :D Sep 23 19:33:10 it would seem Sep 23 19:33:47 the instructions for installing qtopia (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia#Installing_Qtopia) assume I want it in the SD Sep 23 19:34:04 is there a variant that applies to the embedded flash? Sep 23 19:34:12 * lpotter doesnt recommend installing qtopia on sd Sep 23 19:34:34 <[df]> presumably just flash it like anything else? Sep 23 19:34:35 why not? Sep 23 19:34:52 explosions? Sep 23 19:34:54 Dave: the message is "hoi" if i click the "book" icon it is stored and not send Sep 23 19:34:59 viq: you'll have to edit Storage.conf Sep 23 19:35:08 how do you know it wasn't sent? Sep 23 19:35:11 ah Sep 23 19:35:17 You should also wait a while to see if it got sent :P Sep 23 19:35:20 it is not in the send items list Sep 23 19:35:31 -_- Sep 23 19:35:38 edje, dwaas -_-; Sep 23 19:35:41 viq: otherwise it will scan the entire rootfs Sep 23 19:35:52 and put everyfile in the database Sep 23 19:36:45 let me see if it got send after all Sep 23 19:36:57 ( my wife would have 8 sms by now....) Sep 23 19:37:29 lpotter, I find the volume of people talking to me is quite low in the Qtopia snapshot image; what's a good way to change that? Sep 23 19:37:42 Just ssh in and pump something up via alsamixer? I didn't see any UI for controlling that within Qtopia itself. Sep 23 19:37:59 paulproteus: make them talk louder? Sep 23 19:38:13 I tried with them practically yelling; didn't seem to make enough difference. (-: Sep 23 19:38:25 paulproteus: :) Sep 23 19:38:29 when you are on an actuall call, Settings->Call Options->Call volume _should_ work. but I havent tested it lately and might be be saved properly Sep 23 19:39:06 paulproteus: as well, my changes weren;t being pushed to the snapshots :( Sep 23 19:39:33 i think it's a great excuse to have this Neo phone, like when i can say to girls that i don't want to call that is just a bug in the phone, so i cant send sms and take the phone, hehe Sep 23 19:39:41 Speaker volume claims to be max. Sep 23 19:39:54 (just tried it when on a call) Sep 23 19:40:06 i'm trying to install rotate, but after I install it and try to run " update-rc.d accel-rotate defaults" it says "file does not exist" Sep 23 19:40:44 anyone know why that would happen Sep 23 19:41:11 paulproteus: then you'll have to ssh in alsactl -f /usr/share/openmoko/scenarios/gsmhandset.state; alsamixer and then store that back to the gsmhandset file Sep 23 19:44:12 lpotter: will the boottime of qtopia decrease? Sep 23 19:44:31 * in newer releases Sep 23 19:44:32 not really :( Sep 23 19:45:16 lpotter: to bad, but likely you can't help it. It's just a kernel 'issue' Sep 23 19:45:54 Well... i hear a splash decreases boot time (apparently cos of the slow scroll speed), so maybe that could help a bit? :) Sep 23 19:46:14 Lpotter, I hope we see some qtopia improvements speed along in the coming months Sep 23 19:46:23 assuming qtopia.net survives the transition ;) Sep 23 19:46:38 hmm.... mt telephone numbers on the sim card are missing the leading + sign..... Sep 23 19:46:41 * Dave smirks at leinir Sep 23 19:46:58 edje, was your phonebook deforeignerized? :D Sep 23 19:48:03 eh... i have no idea! it just started with +310122345678 Sep 23 19:48:29 flashing qtopia.. Sep 23 19:48:33 that was probably the reason i can't send the text message Sep 23 19:49:58 ah, now i can send a text message ! Sep 23 19:50:03 edje yeah Sep 23 19:50:06 I remember that Sep 23 19:50:16 if the phone number or contact isn't exactly right, it won't send Sep 23 19:50:23 I wish it displayed warning/error/alert messages instead Sep 23 19:50:26 but oh well :| Sep 23 19:50:45 to bad the + is missing from all my phone nummbers Sep 23 19:51:15 ~_~ Sep 23 19:51:20 put 'em back? :D Sep 23 19:51:26 unless the sim doesn't want to save them like that o.O Sep 23 19:52:04 getting this error: mount: /dev/mmcblk0p3 already mounted or /mnt/m3 busy Sep 23 19:52:12 what do I have to do? Sep 23 19:52:24 yes, but *all* my numbers are stored with a leading + to make calling from abroad easier. i can edit a contact right ? Sep 23 19:53:21 edje, sure! Sep 23 19:53:55 man, it takes some getting used too, but it sure is fun ! Sep 23 19:54:46 i think i gonna find out where the contacts are stored on disk and edit the file Sep 23 19:55:01 edje, yeah! Sep 23 19:55:07 I was just about to suggest running a simple script ;) Sep 23 19:55:10 lpotter, Thanks, pumping up "Speaker" toward the end of the alsamixer worked like a charm. Sep 23 19:55:20 they're in the ~/.evolution/addressbook I think Sep 23 19:55:37 Dave: ok, ok i gonna take a peek Sep 23 19:56:06 :D Sep 23 19:58:15 \hmmm. ithink these are the ones stored on the SIM itself Sep 23 20:01:37 on Om2008.8 it's in SQLite Sep 23 20:01:41 I don't know about the other OSes. Sep 23 20:01:53 xbill must rock with a touchpad Sep 23 20:02:36 there is no package yet, is there? :( Sep 23 20:02:39 (xbill) Sep 23 20:02:46 it's in debian Sep 23 20:02:47 =) Sep 23 20:02:51 :-p Sep 23 20:04:13 wtf, qtopia gives me oopses during boot Sep 23 20:04:15 k, I'm running fdom now, and still having problems getting wifi or even the gsm phone working. I can ssh to it and use networking over usb, but thats all. What is it I'm doing wrong? Sep 23 20:05:38 Help, I can't mount my /dev/mmcblk0p1 partition. It says: "mount: /dev/mmcblk0p1 already mounted or /home/root/tmp/ busy" and umount says /dev/mmcblk0p1 isn't mounted. What's the problem? Sep 23 20:07:15 how do you "search" contacts in qtopia? Sep 23 20:07:24 dolf1074: try umount -l Sep 23 20:07:31 I just see a list and no search button Sep 23 20:11:17 edje: thanks. I just released that I had copied my /home/root folder to /dev/mmcblk0 instead of the backup of my partition table Sep 23 20:11:27 edje: ps, it's mount -l Sep 23 20:12:36 you should first umount it from the previous location and mount it on the new location in most cases Sep 23 20:12:53 hence the umount Sep 23 20:13:08 but umount -l doesn't work Sep 23 20:13:27 oh? do you get an error ? Sep 23 20:13:47 (it is a el not a one ) Sep 23 20:13:53 I get "Usage: umount [-hV]" Sep 23 20:14:17 ah, ofcourse it is the busybox mount, not the real one, sorry for that Sep 23 20:14:33 no prob Sep 23 20:25:19 HTC Dream released. Sep 23 20:25:48 how do you setup timezone in qtopia? Sep 23 20:28:11 gah, i had high ping over wifi and not that i got usb internetworking going, i still get high ping... :( Sep 23 20:28:20 the internet in argentina sucks.... Sep 23 20:29:39 i heard there are some issues about microsdhc cards not working without some kernel patch. I'm also getting only I/O errors from my new card. how can i try this patch? Sep 23 20:30:58 nyu: under setings Sep 23 20:31:09 nyu: in the clock, set time. Sep 23 20:31:38 Can you see which version of qtopia you have on your sd? I don't know if I already installed qtopia 4.3.3 or not. Can somebody help me? Sep 23 20:32:03 if you boot it, there is a menu to see system info :) Sep 23 20:32:29 http://lion.xaraya.hu/pictures/qtopia-on-neo-freerunner/sc_Thu_Aug_21_18.54.30_2008.png like that Sep 23 20:32:33 LionKMP: thanks. (it has been a long time ago I booted into it) Sep 23 20:32:40 Now I remember ;) Sep 23 20:33:38 ps: do you know (by heart) where the contactlist are stored? Sep 23 20:33:59 fredrin: thanks Sep 23 20:34:16 where's the keyboard in qtopia? Sep 23 20:35:12 it appears automatically when needed, doesnt it? Sep 23 20:36:45 nyu: little thingy next to the clock Sep 23 20:37:00 when you're in the need for a keybord Sep 23 20:37:04 nyu: it should be in the menu Sep 23 20:37:09 nyu: Change input method Sep 23 20:37:10 or else it's not there Sep 23 20:38:01 ah ok Sep 23 20:38:21 how do I migrate om2007 contacts to qtopia? Sep 23 20:38:40 good question... Sep 23 20:43:12 uhm, my SD is no longer detected with qtopia (linux 2.6.24) Sep 23 20:44:27 nyu: you are sure it's not just a zeroed partition table? Sep 23 20:44:45 Wonka: there's no mmcblk at all Sep 23 20:45:15 cannot help then :( Sep 23 20:53:15 hey, anyone using the OM Projects SVN? Sep 23 20:53:16 Hi Sep 23 20:54:49 I put FSO on my phone but I get a lot of error messages while booting. about "CRC fail" or something like that. I think it's because I built the jffs2 filesystem by myself, with the tarball and forgot some options. What is the right way to do a jffs2 ? Sep 23 20:55:07 (it does boot, eventually, but it takes a long long time) Sep 23 20:55:42 I just started a new project there, no files uploaded yet, and trying to commit my code as it is now.... but the svn commit does not work ("Can't create directory .... Permission denied") any ideas? Sep 23 20:56:32 Deubeuliou, did you check the wiki? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_FSO Sep 23 20:57:18 oh, sorry, I didn't mean "build" this way. I mean, using mkfs.jffs2 Sep 23 20:57:38 so, what did you actually do? Sep 23 20:57:53 from the beginning :) Sep 23 20:58:07 Deubeuliou: I think it only checks the CRC of the kernel, actually Sep 23 20:58:52 and actually - what is long long time? more than 2 minutes? because that seems to be ~norm... Sep 23 20:59:21 I downloaded the rootfs.tar.gz for the om-gta02 , I gunziped/untared it and did a mkfs.jffs2 -r rootfs Sep 23 20:59:27 about 5 minutes Sep 23 21:00:04 did you try to install it on the card? Sep 23 21:00:10 I don't know what CRC is, actually, but I remember that the error messages were about a wrong total lenght of something too. Sep 23 21:00:41 No, I didn't but I did use mkfs.jffs2 for 2 distribs on the phone and they both had this error Sep 23 21:01:15 hi# Sep 23 21:01:21 so, how long was the "long-long" time for boot? Sep 23 21:01:39 anyone else goot problems with suspend on fso? Sep 23 21:02:02 peter-b: what kind of problems? Sep 23 21:02:13 fr wont resume Sep 23 21:02:14 gregdude, more than 5 minutes Sep 23 21:02:17 never :-( Sep 23 21:02:30 with the error spamming the screen for about 2 minutes Sep 23 21:02:33 i havte to take out the battery to make it work again Sep 23 21:02:35 let me check again Sep 23 21:03:09 peter-b, yeah, i think i had something similar: resume but just for a moment then suspends again... took battery out to to restart... Sep 23 21:03:42 i cant see anything on the screen Sep 23 21:03:52 CLEANMAKER node found at 0x..... has totlen 0xc != normal 0x0 Sep 23 21:03:58 and one other: Sep 23 21:04:15 --- alasal.be ping statistics --- Sep 23 21:04:16 Empty flash at 0x... ends at 0x... Sep 23 21:04:16 17 packets transmitted, 16 packets received, 5% packet loss Sep 23 21:04:18 round-trip min/avg/max = 527.809/1462.484/1968.078 ms Sep 23 21:04:19 Deubeuliou: search the wiki for "mkfs.jffs2", there should be some examples Sep 23 21:04:19 root@om-gta02:~# Sep 23 21:04:24 Deu, did you want to modify any file in the image? you can try downloading the jffs2.summary file first, flash that, and see whether it gives the same messages Sep 23 21:04:28 ok Sep 23 21:04:41 hello, im looking to install a browse Sep 23 21:04:42 r Sep 23 21:04:45 on my freerunner Sep 23 21:04:46 You need to specify eraseblock size, padding, and some other options Sep 23 21:04:50 im using the qtopia-image Sep 23 21:04:58 gregdude, I was wondering: what is jffs2.summary ? Sep 23 21:04:59 which browser do you recommend? Sep 23 21:05:14 paulproteus: what are your settings in power management? Sep 23 21:05:21 hi guys, got an openmoko today :) Sep 23 21:05:27 dolf1074, Suspend after 40s I think. Sep 23 21:05:30 The other ones don't matter. (-; Sep 23 21:05:36 Deu, that's just a jffs2 file, you can flash it the same way, just for FR they have that instead of a simple .jffs2 for some reason... Sep 23 21:05:47 Daverix, congrats! Sep 23 21:06:07 paulproteus: in battery mode or in plugged in mode? Sep 23 21:06:13 peter-b, i think people keep away from suspend currently.... Sep 23 21:06:29 gregdude: hmmm Sep 23 21:06:31 why ? Sep 23 21:06:44 dolf1074, Battery mode. Sep 23 21:06:49 Plugged in mode shouldn't matter at all, really. Sep 23 21:07:03 gah, unstable internet work Sep 23 21:07:21 I can't even install Duke Nukem 3d, opkg times out :( Sep 23 21:07:24 gregdude: is that just naming issue? Sep 23 21:07:25 --- alasal.be ping statistics --- Sep 23 21:07:31 opkg is awful! Sep 23 21:07:32 17 packets transmitted, 16 packets received, 5% packet loss Sep 23 21:07:34 round-trip min/avg/max = 527.809/1462.484/1968.078 ms Sep 23 21:07:34 root@om-gta02:~# Sep 23 21:07:42 peter-b, it's still under heavy developement, not very stable... Sep 23 21:07:51 i cant update it, and definitely not install anything Sep 23 21:07:54 lindi-, the SVN thing? Sep 23 21:08:09 paulproteus: Is it pressing the power button for get it out of suspend? Sep 23 21:08:10 gregdude: the a.jffs2.summary Sep 23 21:08:16 please look at http://paste-it.net/public/p6467be/ ... there is my output from tangoGPS, i need help with this shit Sep 23 21:08:20 gregdude: it was working fine on asu some weeks ago Sep 23 21:08:33 lindi-, yeah, oh, i think... trying to find the wiki page where i've seen it... Sep 23 21:08:59 peter-b, FSO != ASU, not at all... Sep 23 21:09:46 gregdude: i know Sep 23 21:09:49 peter-b, different foundations, on the other hand, e.g. FSO has trickle charge, while ASU discharges if you leave it on even when plugged in Sep 23 21:10:48 gregdude: what controls charging? Sep 23 21:11:16 lindi-, about the jffs2: "The file system will be in a jffs2 "summary" file. A file with the extension ".jffs2.summary" can be flashed to the FreeRunner just like an ordinary jffs2 file. " http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Download Sep 23 21:11:29 gregdude: but how does that differ from jffs2? Sep 23 21:12:03 lindi-, http://www.inf.u-szeged.hu/jffs2/mount.php "The main goal is to speed up the mount time of JFFS2 - specially when it uses NAND flash." Sep 23 21:12:09 it seems... Sep 23 21:12:29 gregdude: rright Sep 23 21:12:43 are the kernels from asu and fso so different ? Sep 23 21:12:50 lindi-, i'm not sure about what controls charging - but there's a pretty red start button when FSO is charging normally, and changes into pretty blue when it's on trickle... ;) Sep 23 21:13:05 gregdude: what's trickle? Sep 23 21:13:19 peter-b, i think they have not much in common... Sep 23 21:14:07 lindi-, maybe that's not the right word? when it finished chargin' but fills it up all the time to counter the charge lost for usage.... so it stays 100% charged while plugged in Sep 23 21:14:26 gregdude: why not ? Sep 23 21:14:36 lindi-, ASU on the other hand.... charges up to 100%, then turns charging completely off, so it just slowly discharges Sep 23 21:14:37 i mean the all need the same stuff ... Sep 23 21:14:56 gregdude: can you please try to figure out what controls charging Sep 23 21:15:19 gregdude: since here i only have frameworkd and it doesn't seem to do it Sep 23 21:15:27 Charging is controlled by the PCF50633 chip. It has a few configuration registers that can be set by the kernel or userspace Sep 23 21:15:27 gregdude: so i concluded the kernel must be doing it on its own Sep 23 21:15:51 but here sometimes it stays at 84% forever Sep 23 21:15:56 which is very weird Sep 23 21:16:00 peter-b, but ASU is using qtopia for all the inner workings, the FSO is compeltely rewritted everything ( i think, someone surely knows it better here) Sep 23 21:16:05 if i unplug and replug it will charge to 100% Sep 23 21:16:24 gregdude: but frameworkd does not do anything related to charging at all Sep 23 21:16:57 (ok, it supports reporting the current charge but that doesn't count) Sep 23 21:17:38 gregdude: i dont thibk fso is much about the kernel Sep 23 21:18:14 lindi-, according to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FSO it is done by "odeviced" Sep 23 21:19:10 peter-b, yeah, right, not just the kernel, the main difference is in the services above that. Sep 23 21:19:19 gregdude: are you sure? i'm readnig the source right now Sep 23 21:20:28 * peter-b is still wondering if the kernel differs at all (and if so why) Sep 23 21:20:31 lindi-, if one thing i'm sure, that i'm not sure about anything regarding OM :) just opinions... Sep 23 21:20:38 where's the package management system in qtopia? I want to install missing linux modules for mmc cards Sep 23 21:20:55 gregdude: it can enable/disable power for devices but i don't see it doing any charging Sep 23 21:21:04 gregdude: better start reading :) Sep 23 21:21:10 gregdude: and asking questions ;) Sep 23 21:21:23 peter-b, now taking a closer look, you must be right: This initiative does not cover low level services such as: Bootloader, Kernel, or System Init. Sep 23 21:21:28 at the FSO wiki page Sep 23 21:21:49 lindi-, yeah that's what i'm doing. ;) Sep 23 21:22:12 gregdude: i can use both 2008.8 and FSO on the same system without rebooting Sep 23 21:22:13 lindi-, Check the "Device Control" part on that page... "It also deals with Charging, suspend/resume" Sep 23 21:22:23 paulproteus: how do you get your qtopia out of suspend? Mine is to happy in suspend, it doesn't go out, even not for a phone-call Sep 23 21:22:24 gregdude: so clearly they don't need special kernels Sep 23 21:22:36 Im looking for a browser for my Qtopia-freerunner. Could someone help me out please? Sep 23 21:22:36 gregdude: yep but the source code does not talk about that Sep 23 21:22:46 gregdude: maybe the wiki just talks about something that does not exist yet? Sep 23 21:22:51 yabo: Does not exist for qtopia yet, I'm afraid. 4.4 will have it. Sep 23 21:22:59 dolf1074, For me it does the right thing when I press power, and when someone calls. Sep 23 21:23:02 Are you using the 9/3/2008 snapshot? Sep 23 21:23:08 And the bundled mwester kernel? Sep 23 21:23:08 lindi-, okay, i give you that, i never tried running ASU and FSO in the same time.... Sep 23 21:23:10 That's what I'm using. Sep 23 21:23:22 yes Sep 23 21:23:25 okay, johnsu01. thank you Sep 23 21:23:26 Hmm. Sep 23 21:23:31 gregdude: and zhone does system("apm -s") to suspend Sep 23 21:23:43 gregdude: which clearly means that frameworkd does not support suspend yet :) Sep 23 21:24:16 lindi-, i'm just checking... Sep 23 21:24:17 gregdude: i'm trying to figure out why i get weird noise during calls with frameworkd Sep 23 21:24:25 gregdude: so it helps to run them on same kernel Sep 23 21:25:01 lindi-: suspend working with your kernel ? Sep 23 21:25:50 paulproteus: I think it is because my qtopia is on my sdcard. If I restart my partition table is destroyed Sep 23 21:27:02 peter-b: yep Sep 23 21:27:16 which one are you using ? Sep 23 21:27:48 peter-b: http://downloads.openmoko.org/framework/milestone3/uImage-2.6.24+r5+gitr1+ca19d156400f817960efe0d14680324b2ea34171-r5-om-gta02.bin Sep 23 21:27:54 peter-b: it'll soon be in debian i hope Sep 23 21:28:13 im gonna try that one Sep 23 21:28:24 actually, install.sh might have changed after that Sep 23 21:28:32 * peter-b is at r7 ATM Sep 23 21:28:36 grr, i wish the kernel was in a debian package so that i would have proper version number Sep 23 21:32:27 anyone using SVN on the OM Projects site? Sep 23 21:35:00 so im looking to install Python on Qtopia Sep 23 21:35:17 My freerunner will arive tomorrow . Googled for some interesting apps. I'm especially interested in a proper sip softphone. what softphone would you advice? Sep 23 21:35:18 can i download python from python.org, or will that just fail horribly? Sep 23 21:36:40 yabo, doesn't Qtopia have python installed already? Sep 23 21:36:50 no :( Sep 23 21:37:38 opkg install python-core does not work for me Sep 23 21:37:39 ' Sep 23 21:37:49 nothing with opkg seems to work really... Sep 23 21:37:55 dns is configured Sep 23 21:40:43 yabo: do you have network? Sep 23 21:41:24 yeah Sep 23 21:41:29 usb Sep 23 21:41:53 i get replies when i ping openmoko.org Sep 23 21:42:10 opkg list | grep python Sep 23 21:43:17 got no output Sep 23 21:43:47 i dont know, maybe try opkg update if you've not done that Sep 23 21:44:24 that just lists a bunch of errors Sep 23 21:44:39 signature check failed Sep 23 21:44:52 then it lists a bunch of error 404s Sep 23 21:45:09 yabo: dont care baout the signature stuff Sep 23 21:45:35 but if there are other erros have to adjust your feeds Sep 23 21:46:20 adjust my feeds? Sep 23 21:46:59 Failed to download http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/all/Packages.gz, error 404 Sep 23 21:47:08 ok Sep 23 21:47:10 Failed to download http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/all/Packages.sig, error 404 Sep 23 21:47:22 i get that for all the items in opkg update Sep 23 21:47:23 afair there are no feeds on buildhost anymore Sep 23 21:47:41 take a look at /etc/opkg Sep 23 21:48:14 but i cant tell you which ones to used Sep 23 21:48:17 there are many -feed.conf files Sep 23 21:48:32 one for every feed Sep 23 21:49:04 all-feed.conf, arch.conf, armv4t-feed.conf, community-repository.conf, fic-gta02-feed.conf, neo1973-feed.conf, om-gta02-feed.conf Sep 23 21:50:16 you could grep for buildhost, because buildhost has to be changed into http://downloads.openmoko.org/ ... Sep 23 21:51:25 are there really feeds for qtopia on downloads .. ? Sep 23 21:54:45 there is qtopia-phone-enable-debug_1.0-r2_armv4t.opk so you can look if there are also the other packages. Sep 23 21:54:46 how does the qtopia media player "index" my music? i.e. where does it store the track information and when does it reindex it? Sep 23 21:55:13 lindi-: suspend seems to got broken somewhere between r5 and r7 Sep 23 21:55:27 Is there a way to make opkg tell what files are part of an installed package? Sep 23 21:55:28 its working fine again with the r5 kernel Sep 23 21:55:29 peter-b: rright Sep 23 21:55:38 peter-b: how does it fail? Sep 23 21:55:48 cant resume+ Sep 23 21:56:12 cante get the freerunner to do anything Sep 23 21:56:16 so i should change to downloads.openmoko.org? Sep 23 21:56:17 after suspend Sep 23 21:56:19 or did that not work= Sep 23 21:56:31 only taking out the battery helps Sep 23 21:58:07 if there is no bug on docs yet i will create one tomorrow Sep 23 21:58:16 have to go to bed now Sep 23 21:58:50 bernt and peter-b Sep 23 21:59:05 do i change to downloads.openmoko.org, or does it not work? Sep 23 21:59:13 cant tell Sep 23 21:59:21 never used qtopia Sep 23 21:59:33 but you can try Sep 23 21:59:42 oki, thank you Sep 23 22:00:15 if you want opkg to do some work, you should change the files ;-) Sep 23 22:00:19 http downloads directly from buildhost.openmoko.org are disabled Sep 23 22:00:50 this could be the reason for '404' Sep 23 22:02:08 oki Sep 23 22:02:09 thank you Sep 23 22:17:47 (not trying to spam this place by asking this many times, but....) is there any webmaster from the OM Project site here? Sep 23 22:17:59 or someone who uses it :) Sep 23 22:19:03 roh might be the person :) Sep 23 22:19:56 oh, yeah.... Sep 23 22:21:05 i wonder if he's here (i mean not just logged in but "here") Sep 23 22:25:01 bernt Sep 23 22:26:26 ? Sep 23 22:28:23 http://paste.rootmybox.org/index.php?show=571 Sep 23 22:28:41 thats what i get from opkg update, and opkg install python-core Sep 23 22:28:47 yarr Sep 23 22:29:32 are those urls right? Sep 23 22:29:43 that g phone looks alot like the plastic used on the openmoko Sep 23 22:30:27 heh Sep 23 22:30:40 what's happnin' slaxxin? Sep 23 22:31:10 ahh hust looking at the headlines Sep 23 22:31:19 j* Sep 23 22:31:49 charging me phone Sep 23 22:31:57 heh Sep 23 22:32:01 one sucks Sep 23 22:32:09 the other one is is just sucky :P Sep 23 22:32:12 I suppose Sep 23 22:33:04 got a couple of sdcards an trying to decide which os to put on them Sep 23 22:33:30 Well, my vote would be for not windows :P Sep 23 22:33:47 i guess its gonna be debian an qtopia 4.4 Sep 23 22:33:47 doors? ;) Sep 23 22:34:01 cars Sep 23 22:34:09 :D Sep 23 22:34:13 naa just the cure Sep 23 22:34:14 haha Sep 23 22:34:19 virus? Sep 23 22:34:29 What the fuck is going on!? :D Sep 23 22:34:52 bikes .blues an bbq Sep 23 22:35:05 northwest arkansas Sep 23 22:35:30 yee haw? Sep 23 22:35:46 we gon dun some cow tippin' maw Sep 23 22:35:52 naa the yanks have overran us again Sep 23 22:36:33 cow tippin is a yankee game Sep 23 22:36:40 haha Sep 23 22:37:06 an i would go on to say that it dont work Sep 23 22:37:53 could someone look at http://paste.rootmybox.org/index.php?show=571 and tell me what ive done wrong with opkg please? Sep 23 22:38:03 (its just a pastebin-entry) Sep 23 22:38:48 it doesn't like you Sep 23 22:38:55 u have qtopia on? Sep 23 22:39:04 I sincerely hope not, for his sake. Sep 23 22:39:10 yeah qtopia Sep 23 22:39:12 or else explosions may ensue Sep 23 22:39:13 D: Sep 23 22:39:21 an u want upgrades? Sep 23 22:39:30 i want to install python Sep 23 22:39:32 heh Sep 23 22:39:33 oo Sep 23 22:39:45 an u can ping google? Sep 23 22:39:48 yep Sep 23 22:40:04 u opkg update first? Sep 23 22:40:47 output from opkg output is at http://paste.rootmybox.org/index.php?show=571 Sep 23 22:40:52 it doesnt seem to work.. :( Sep 23 22:41:09 did u reboot? Sep 23 22:41:32 after changing the files in /etc/opkg? no Sep 23 22:41:59 suppose i should then? Sep 23 22:42:04 maybe Sep 23 22:42:13 the changes are reflected in the opkg update-output though Sep 23 22:42:24 ownloading http://downloads.openmoko.org/daily-feed/fic-gta02/Packages.gz instead of that other url Sep 23 22:42:44 instead of buildhost Sep 23 22:43:17 sometimes things just get stuck Sep 23 22:43:18 Did you blow everyting up? Sep 23 22:43:24 no, not yet Sep 23 22:43:26 yabo: http://downloads.openmoko.org/daily-feed/ doesn't exist. Sep 23 22:43:30 well doit Sep 23 22:43:32 You are on the path to destruction! Sep 23 22:43:38 Mmontour, yeah, what I said. Sep 23 22:43:38 oh, what should it be; mmontour? Sep 23 22:44:05 Qtopia has no repository (except the lame one lpotter made), that I know about. Sep 23 22:44:08 :x Sep 23 22:44:20 lame?! Sep 23 22:44:21 so.. i cant get python on qtopia? >_> Sep 23 22:44:29 oh and "upgrading" qtopia using the 2008.8 repository is EPIC FAIL Sep 23 22:44:30 dont derail potter hes on a mission Sep 23 22:44:37 * Dave hides from ljp Sep 23 22:44:44 ~lart Dave Sep 23 22:44:48 me yells: so.. i cant get python on qtopia? >_> Sep 23 22:45:10 so ive been trying to slow charge a really dead battery for 8 hours now, should that be enough time? it still doesnt want to turn on... Sep 23 22:45:14 u have any sdcards? Sep 23 22:45:18 yeah i do Sep 23 22:45:35 * Dave summons a qt snake to eat ljp Sep 23 22:46:02 i would suggest fdom on the phone an qtopia on sdcard> 2 gig Sep 23 22:46:13 fdom? Sep 23 22:46:20 * ljp tames qt snake by call to QCanvas Sep 23 22:46:20 -_- Sep 23 22:46:21 yabo: sorry, I'm not up-to-date on the state of the various package repositories. Sep 23 22:46:25 or just regular 2008.8 Sep 23 22:46:32 on the phone Sep 23 22:46:34 2008.8/9 and FSO are so incredibly slow and are awful to use unless you're using a keyboard, so i dont want them Sep 23 22:46:41 * Dave sics his snake on leinir Sep 23 22:46:58 or rather, i got the phone to turn on, but the red AUX light blinks and it runs out of power before it can boot all the way up... :/ Sep 23 22:46:59 get to developing then Sep 23 22:47:28 kdubois1: are you using the wall charger? If so, try a USB cable to a PC instead. Sep 23 22:47:41 but Sep 23 22:47:42 what is fdom? Sep 23 22:47:53 i was using the wall charger, i can try the usb for a few hours though, see if that works Sep 23 22:48:01 yabo: fat and dirty openmoko Sep 23 22:48:07 kdu get a good battery from a nokia an boot the phone while plugged in usb then switch back to the dead battery Sep 23 22:48:08 yabo: check the wiki Sep 23 22:48:29 oh right, the wiki is case-sensitive Sep 23 22:48:37 you know, someone should really fix that Sep 23 22:48:48 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FDOM Sep 23 22:49:16 well that would be nonlinuxable Sep 23 22:49:19 slaxxin: if he's getting the Aux LED to flash then that shouldn't be necessary. The jump-start battery was only required when the FR would not power on at all due to a battery in cutoff Sep 23 22:49:54 k, getting fdom now Sep 23 22:50:05 its 2008 though Sep 23 22:50:25 an be sure to check the md5sum Sep 23 22:50:29 * mmontour makes a note to do some cleanup on his u-boot low-battery patches Sep 23 22:50:39 yay Sep 23 22:51:41 oh god Sep 23 22:51:50 ""Now, mount the root file system from the jffs2 using the commands found here. "" Sep 23 22:51:53 that looks hard.. Sep 23 22:51:56 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Userspace_root_image#Mounting_the_JFFS2_image_on_a_loop_back_device_.28Block_Memory_MTD_Emulation.29 Sep 23 22:51:58 :-S Sep 23 22:52:28 how do i know if i have the losetup -f option? Sep 23 22:53:02 yikes Sep 23 22:53:25 u going to build from scratch? Sep 23 22:53:36 i was thinking id install qtopia on my sdcard Sep 23 22:53:43 "Here is a simple script to do the above automatically, complete with sanity checking: JFFS2-Mount-Script " Sep 23 22:53:50 yabo, I don't suggest that. Sep 23 22:53:52 Nor does lpotter. Sep 23 22:53:53 well use a different pagh Sep 23 22:53:55 re: Qtopia on SD Sep 23 22:54:14 oh... thanks paulproteus :P Sep 23 22:54:25 i was thinking fdom on phone and qtopia on sdcard Sep 23 22:54:37 just make sure you edit Storage.conf Sep 23 22:54:46 ??? Sep 23 22:54:56 Greetings. Sep 23 22:55:07 Earthlings. Sep 23 22:55:15 hes pidgining Sep 23 22:56:01 yabo, Someone here a minute ago complained that suspend didn't work for him with Qtopia in SD. Sep 23 22:56:08 I haven't tried it; lpotter obviously will know more. Sep 23 22:56:29 what is suspend? Sep 23 22:57:01 sorry.. as far as linux, and getting my phone up and running im a semi-skiddie Sep 23 22:57:05 i just want it all to work Sep 23 22:57:10 then i can worry about learning Sep 23 22:57:21 There's the first problem... :( Sep 23 22:57:27 mwester, Hey! (-: Sep 23 22:57:28 It doesn't all work. Sep 23 22:57:30 Yet. Sep 23 22:57:30 I'm having a good time in Qtopia. Sep 23 22:57:35 wanting it all to work Sep 23 22:57:43 well somewhat work then Sep 23 22:57:45 like qtopia Sep 23 22:57:45 yabo, Just flash the latest 9/3/2008 (iirc) Qtopia image on. Sep 23 22:57:52 qtopia just works Sep 23 22:57:54 almost Sep 23 22:57:56 it works enough Sep 23 22:58:02 I'm havin' a good time with Qtopia on my Neo. Even took a few calls on my drive to Detroit today! Sep 23 22:58:21 mwester-trip, maybe you know how i can get Python on my qtopia-freerunner? Sep 23 22:58:23 yabo, Yes - I've had very good success with Qtopia. I suggest you try the latest "snapshot" which is from about three weeks ago. Sep 23 22:58:32 yabo, You could probably opkg install it. Sep 23 22:58:37 my phone,gps.pidgin , an wireless work Sep 23 22:58:45 paulproteus, http://paste.rootmybox.org/index.php?show=571 Sep 23 22:58:54 thats what i get from opkg update and opkg install python-core Sep 23 22:58:57 On Qtopia? Sep 23 22:58:59 yes Sep 23 22:59:05 Hmm. No idea I'm afraid. Sep 23 22:59:06 yabo: find the python ipkg files from the FSO repository, use wget to download them, and then opkg install ./.ipk to install them. Sep 23 22:59:18 You could switch to the FSO repository info. Sep 23 23:00:07 Best not to setup any package feeds as chaos could ensue -- if one is forced to do a cross-platform install, best to use wget manually. Sep 23 23:00:24 That way you make sure that nothing unexpected gets "upgraded" out from underneath you... Sep 23 23:00:52 thank you mwester-trip!! Sep 23 23:00:59 paulproteus, how do i do that? Sep 23 23:01:11 as in messages like: opkg: installing kernel 2.4.22 Sep 23 23:01:17 when all you wanted was python! Sep 23 23:01:21 yabo, I'm not totally sure - you probably shouldn't unless you do a backup. Pay attention to mwester here. (-: Sep 23 23:01:36 okidokeh Sep 23 23:01:37 yabo, It should be as easy as replacing the sources.list equivalent on your phone with the one from an FSO image. Sep 23 23:02:05 mwester, how do i find the python ipkg files from the FSO repository? i guess browsing http://downloads.freesmartphone.org/ doesnt work...? :P Sep 23 23:02:52 paulproteus, the sources.list on my phone are the urls in /etc/opkg? Sep 23 23:03:02 Works for me -- I see a page that describes the feeds, with links to the fso-testing and fso-unstable feeds. Sep 23 23:03:19 but i cant find python there, mwester-trip Sep 23 23:03:36 yabo, I don't actually know, I haven't used opkg much. (-: Sep 23 23:03:55 alright paulproteus, thanks anyway Sep 23 23:05:05 http://downloads.freesmartphone.org/fso-testing/feeds/armv4t/python-core_2.5.2-ml0_armv4t.ipk <--- What's that then? Sep 23 23:05:27 Along with dozens of other python libs and modules -- just pick the ones you need. :) Sep 23 23:06:11 oh... sorry, im trying to not be the ignorant lazy noob but i guess i fail a little... thanks a lot! really, thank you so much Sep 23 23:06:16 (That's how I installed Perl on my Qtopia image, btw) Sep 23 23:07:25 by the way Sep 23 23:07:31 yabo: no problem. Your situation highlights a need that has not yet been met by the community. Sep 23 23:07:42 why cant we install stuff from anywhere? Sep 23 23:07:55 unstable Sep 23 23:07:56 why cant i download python from python.org and use that, for example Sep 23 23:08:02 Oh Sep 23 23:08:06 a linuxQuestions type site would work Sep 23 23:08:32 freerunnerHQ.com? Sep 23 23:09:12 Is there a way to check what files belong to a package? Sep 23 23:09:21 Pre-compiled binaries for software are specific to a chipset -- just as you have 32-bit intel and 64-bit intel for desktops, you have different ARM binaries. This is further complicated by the fact that the dependencies are not complete, and opkg doesn't check them thoroughly. Sep 23 23:09:45 oh i see Sep 23 23:09:54 viq: opkg --help should show which option does that; i've forgetton. Sep 23 23:10:15 mwester-trip: I'm reading that and don't seem to find one Sep 23 23:10:33 files Sep 23 23:10:55 so our architecture is named armv4t? Sep 23 23:10:56 ...or I'm simply blind. Thanks jonsmith1982 ! Sep 23 23:12:50 Huh, the package qtopia-phone-x11-sip doesn't seem to be too useful on Om2008 then Sep 23 23:13:39 Anyway, sleep time. Good night. Sep 23 23:16:34 mwester-trip, can i make opkg work on qtopia by the way? Sep 23 23:17:35 http://paste.rootmybox.org/index.php?show=571 is the output i get, i changed the urls in /etc/opkg to downloads.* instead of buildhost Sep 23 23:17:54 * output from opkg update Sep 23 23:19:44 yabo: I'm not sure if you quite understood what I was recommending. Sep 23 23:19:55 what did you recommend? Sep 23 23:20:04 Use your browser on your desktop to find the python packages on the FSO feeds site. Sep 23 23:20:09 yeah im doing that Sep 23 23:20:12 but opkg in general Sep 23 23:20:14 to get other stuff Sep 23 23:20:32 Then "copy" the URL and "paste" it to another window that's ssh'd into the FR. Sep 23 23:20:47 So that you can "wget" that ipk file and download it to your FR. Sep 23 23:21:10 Once on your FR, you can use opkg to install the ipk file itself, without requiring the feeds directly. Sep 23 23:21:15 This is far safer, and much easier. Sep 23 23:21:31 hum Sep 23 23:21:37 Although you will have to copy and paste many URLs if your python packages you need have many dependencies. Sep 23 23:22:14 i downloaded the .ipk, scp sent it to the freerunner. and then i thought id go to the directory with the ipk and opkg install *.ipk Sep 23 23:22:15 Otherwise, you're on your own -- but it is possible to point to other feeds; it's just a matter of getting the URLs correct in the .conf files in /etc/opkg Sep 23 23:23:14 opkg install ./*.ipk will work. But opkg is order-sensitive, so you may have to install all the downloaded ipks in a specific order (bottom up in the dependency tree) Sep 23 23:23:22 Mwester! Sep 23 23:29:27 okidoki, thank you very much Sep 23 23:30:39 whaat Sep 23 23:32:27 i cant find one of the dependencies Sep 23 23:32:36 for python-misc Sep 23 23:32:55 * db (>= 4.3.29) * Sep 23 23:33:30 is that db-bin and db-dbg? Sep 23 23:34:27 db-bin also requires db Sep 23 23:34:28 :-S Sep 23 23:35:21 mwester-trip, what are the correct URLs i should use in the .conf files in /etc/opkg? Sep 23 23:36:42 You can find it; you have the URLs to the packages themselves. If you look at the conf files, you can see they specify the URLs to the Packages.gz files -- just search that FSO to find it's Packages.gz files; the pattern will become apparent. Sep 23 23:37:02 oh right, silly me Sep 23 23:37:26 btw Sep 23 23:37:27 db? Sep 23 23:37:37 do you know where i can find it? Sep 23 23:38:09 wait Sep 23 23:38:11 ill shut up Sep 23 23:38:12 found it myself Sep 23 23:38:22 :) Sep 23 23:38:25 np Sep 23 23:40:04 * mwester-trip mutters that his Neo just missed an incoming SMS -- resumed from suspend to tell him that the transaction cost him USD 0.15, but Qtopia did not bother to fetch the SMS that I just paid for. Sep 23 23:40:33 haha Sep 23 23:40:42 that sucks... Sep 23 23:41:00 * mwester-trip wishes that ljp would at least offer a hint to what file he patched to fix this problem in 4.3.3, so he can try to reverse-engineer it -- since the sources to 4.3.3 aren't available! Sep 23 23:41:08 but sometimes it pays off... like my ex just told me she's being trying to call me and my phone hasn't been ringing Sep 23 23:43:09 Mwester >:) Sep 23 23:43:12 Dave: http://leetcode.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/cimg2923-modified.jpg ;) Sep 23 23:43:13 ljp is hiding again -- he vanishes whenever I bring up the topic of the 4.3.3 patchset source code! I think the Nokia lawyers have him tied up in knots over it all. Sep 23 23:43:25 haha Sep 23 23:43:29 nuclear_eclipse! Sep 23 23:44:31 Hallowed are the Nets. Sep 23 23:44:35 just thought I'd show you screens of Net on ASU :P Sep 23 23:44:54 s/screens/screen/ Sep 23 23:44:54 nuclear_eclipse meant: just thought I'd show you screen of Net on ASU :P Sep 23 23:45:33 heh Sep 23 23:45:55 nuclear_eclipse, do you care to venture a guess at how many Net screenshots I have taken from my primary freerunner? Sep 23 23:46:13 Sep 23 23:46:14 hmm, probably either too many or not enough :P Sep 23 23:46:36 kd8ikt! Sep 23 23:46:40 nuclear_eclipse hehe Sep 23 23:47:02 dude Sep 23 23:47:06 Net cube Sep 23 23:47:13 Net3d, it's the future! Sep 23 23:47:16 I know, I jsut wish I had the time! Sep 23 23:47:37 :D Sep 23 23:47:49 I am thinking of recruiting help :) Sep 23 23:47:55 too many projects to work on and PS3 games to play :P Sep 23 23:47:59 that and for a couple other games I already have sleighted. Sep 23 23:48:03 hehe Sep 23 23:48:10 damn your videogame console :P Sep 23 23:48:21 hey, apparently you can use the controller with teh freerunner though! Sep 23 23:48:23 :D Sep 23 23:48:54 lol, that'd be sweet when mixed with something like a NES emu :D Sep 23 23:49:06 yep Sep 23 23:49:14 my controller is bigger than my screen! Sep 23 23:49:19 yep Sep 23 23:49:19 :D Sep 23 23:49:25 but hey, at least it's a good one ;) Sep 23 23:49:56 I bet the freerunner is heavier, haha. Sep 23 23:50:33 not when I use the Dual Shock 3 :P Sep 23 23:50:44 haha Sep 23 23:50:57 whore :p Sep 23 23:51:16 * nuclear_eclipse runs to grab DS3 to make sure it's heavier than Neo Sep 23 23:51:17 I hardly see how that could benefit Net play. Sep 23 23:51:23 :D Sep 23 23:51:31 Yeah, check. You might be surprised :P Sep 23 23:51:35 hmm, about the same in weight, actually Sep 23 23:51:51 :o Sep 23 23:52:04 perfectly matched? Sep 23 23:52:11 just about :P Sep 23 23:52:14 * nuclear_eclipse is off to dinner Sep 23 23:52:16 sweet Sep 23 23:52:18 laters Sep 23 23:52:20 yay Sep 23 23:52:21 * Dave sends nuclear_eclipse SIGFOOD Sep 23 23:52:24 lol Sep 23 23:52:28 * yabo just got opkg working Sep 23 23:52:33 \o/ Sep 23 23:52:41 * nuclear_eclipse waves bye .o/ Sep 23 23:52:43 yabo, great! now don't break your qtopia install :P Sep 23 23:52:46 o/ Sep 23 23:52:49 wait Sep 23 23:52:52 no i didnt Sep 23 23:53:13 do i need all the files in /etc/opkg? Sep 23 23:53:28 i guess they should be there, but. Sep 23 23:53:39 i changed all the urls to http://downloads.freesmartphone.org/fso-testing/feeds/armv4t/ Sep 23 23:53:56 but im getting signature fails on some of the Sep 23 23:53:57 OH WAIT Sep 23 23:54:02 OH SNAP Sep 23 23:54:06 people tell me to ignore the signatures Sep 23 23:54:09 yabo, yeah, you should always ignore that Sep 23 23:54:13 oooh ok Sep 23 23:54:19 furthermore, I thought you were running qtopia Sep 23 23:54:23 i am Sep 23 23:54:27 if so, WHY are you updating it with fso?? Sep 23 23:54:35 I hope you're just installing SELECT packages :p Sep 23 23:54:46 im installing the python stuff Sep 23 23:54:46 otherwise, you'll destroy your qtopia installation. :) Sep 23 23:54:53 (e.g. opkg upgrade) Sep 23 23:54:56 and i did opkg update Sep 23 23:54:59 just an fyi :P Sep 23 23:55:04 i ruined my qtopia installation then? :p Sep 23 23:55:49 no? Sep 23 23:56:53 wah, please say yes or no before i die Sep 23 23:56:55 :-| Sep 23 23:57:08 upgrade != update Sep 23 23:57:09 ? Sep 23 23:58:14 indeed! Sep 23 23:58:18 so im safe? :P Sep 23 23:58:24 splonge Sep 23 23:58:26 yeah Sep 23 23:58:29 wuu Sep 23 23:58:31 shower i shall Sep 23 23:58:34 thanks for all the help Sep 23 23:58:34 ok, you know someone has an issue whenthey keep "accidentally" calling it the "thc dream" Sep 23 23:58:36 don't upgrade :P Sep 23 23:58:37 i learned a lot Sep 23 23:58:41 bai Sep 23 23:58:45 o_o Sep 23 23:58:55 ieatlint, have you been smoking your code again? :p Sep 23 23:59:05 * yabo rofls Sep 23 23:59:15 i don't think python will collide with anything in qtopia Sep 23 23:59:19 * yabo snickers... smoking code mwhihihih Sep 23 23:59:31 i don't smoke ... anything, but a "friend" keeps harassing me about the tmo g1, and seems to honestly keep misspelling it thc Sep 23 23:59:36 what's wrong with doing an opkg upgrade undier qtopia? Sep 23 23:59:46 haha, wtf? Sep 24 00:00:02 * johnsu01 does it just about daily Sep 24 00:00:08 johnsu01, well, if you're package repository happens to be set to that of another distro... Sep 24 00:00:16 i think i broke someone's heart when i told them that even if/when it's hacked and unlocked, you wouldn't want it on att as well Sep 24 00:00:19 You figure out what happens. Sep 24 00:00:25 Dave: all the qtopia stuff is in /opt/Nokia/Qtopia though? Sep 24 00:00:32 which opkg doesn't touch Sep 24 00:01:01 dude, I'm just telling you how it is. Sep 24 00:01:01 lpotter suggested it would be okay, unless I misunderstood Sep 24 00:01:01 as long as I stayed away from the qtopia x11 stuff Sep 24 00:01:06 If you're using qtopia, and you opkg upgrade, say, using the OM2008 repo, you're fucked. reflash your phone, it won't turn on again. Sep 24 00:01:12 blah Sep 24 00:01:12 I've done it a couple times :) Sep 24 00:01:15 heh Sep 24 00:01:24 more like, fail@tehinterweb.com ;p Sep 24 00:01:30 heh heh Sep 24 00:01:43 Dave: wfm :) Sep 24 00:01:47 my screen setup is weird, and i tried to close a browser window with ctrl+w... Sep 24 00:01:49 wfm? Sep 24 00:01:56 works for me Sep 24 00:02:03 ieatlint: gg Sep 24 00:02:12 but keyboard focus and mouse focus are different things for me, so while i was browsing in firefox, text focus was here :) Sep 24 00:02:17 johnsu01: probably because your opkg repos are using correct feeds or something. Sep 24 00:02:20 anyhoo Sep 24 00:02:28 ieatlint o_O Sep 24 00:02:38 Ieatlint, you are on the path to destruction. Sep 24 00:02:47 Dave: oh I see, he changed all the URLs Sep 24 00:02:52 YES Sep 24 00:02:54 -_- Sep 24 00:02:55 i've been on that path for a long time Sep 24 00:03:05 Dave: :) Sep 24 00:03:08 ieatlint: glad you're not part of the meth scene, though. :) Sep 24 00:03:14 johnsu01, hooray Sep 24 00:03:50 heh Sep 24 00:03:55 * Dave rolls his eyes Sep 24 00:04:01 * Dave leinir :P Sep 24 00:04:11 Raster. Sep 24 00:04:21 * Dave salutes Sep 24 00:04:33 i definitely am tempted with the tmo g1... real drawback is that i hear it won't allow tethering :( Sep 24 00:04:42 but i wants an hspda phone damnit Sep 24 00:05:04 yep Sep 24 00:05:06 as do many Sep 24 00:05:13 get in line :P Sep 24 00:05:21 i like that it has a compass Sep 24 00:06:19 i should've just stolen one of the dev models... i've a friend who had access and could've told me who to mug walking out of synaptics :P Sep 24 00:07:34 jesus Sep 24 00:07:46 haha Sep 24 00:07:55 bada bing Sep 24 00:08:06 Mine, uhh,.... fell off the truck :) Sep 24 00:08:11 LEAK TEH DOCS RAS! Sep 24 00:08:26 kd8ikt: not happening. Sep 24 00:08:41 * kd8ikt hopes to wear away at ras's sanity Sep 24 00:08:42 Raster, leak your new UI designs! Sep 24 00:08:46 u won't wear me down :) i'm half german. that means i'm stubborn-as-crap :) Sep 24 00:08:58 Dave: not designs. its real stuff Sep 24 00:09:01 been busy Sep 24 00:09:02 Oh snap! Sep 24 00:09:08 i just need to polish off this at replacement Sep 24 00:09:10 it also means you can be bribed with beer and kinky porn Sep 24 00:09:17 haha! Sep 24 00:09:19 :P Sep 24 00:09:22 muwahaha Sep 24 00:09:25 ieatlint, and I'm sure you would know! ;) Sep 24 00:09:34 let's all gang up Sep 24 00:09:34 german shizer films Sep 24 00:09:37 i know a lot of germans .9 Sep 24 00:10:08 it's spelt scheiße, and that's not kinky, that's ... something else Sep 24 00:10:12 my last name is german so its cool just give me the plans for the death star Sep 24 00:10:56 brazillian fart fetish pr0n Sep 24 00:11:13 (southpark) Sep 24 00:11:18 this went downhill way too fast Sep 24 00:11:50 i wonder if there is a parrellel universe where mirror mirror raster will leak the docs Sep 24 00:12:14 then we can get them from him and bring them back to this universe Sep 24 00:12:22 hehe Sep 24 00:12:31 what docs? Sep 24 00:12:37 glamo Sep 24 00:12:53 ah, yeah, that's his ass and a bad lawsuit if he does Sep 24 00:12:55 and anything else NDA Sep 24 00:13:03 ieatlint: beer maybe. kinky porn - nah. got bored of that. Sep 24 00:13:23 don't try and get people under NDA to violate it... it's not fair to them :P Sep 24 00:13:30 :P Sep 24 00:13:48 you wanted to mug someone! when did your morals come back? Sep 24 00:14:03 that entirely different Sep 24 00:14:04 ieatlint: don't worry. i'm not. when i sign a deal. i stick to it. when i agree to something. i do it. i dont violte trust placed in me. it's a personal moral thing. Sep 24 00:14:12 bah Sep 24 00:14:18 i risk only my own ass if i mugged someone for a phone that wasn't their Sep 24 00:14:19 s Sep 24 00:14:47 i still don't where all the cliches came from Sep 24 00:14:48 raster, i'm not saying you would violate it, but being harassed about it in my book isn't cool... Sep 24 00:15:05 ieatlint: no.. but sooner or later i will just use /ignore :) Sep 24 00:15:09 when you make a bunch of friends all under nda, you learn that when someone says they can't talk about it, to just drop it Sep 24 00:15:10 i can understand lederhosen and drinking beer, but sheisse porn? Sep 24 00:15:27 heh Sep 24 00:15:32 playya, okay, explain the lederhosen to me Sep 24 00:16:18 hey you where around during the 80's its basicly liek jacking your socks up Sep 24 00:16:25 ieatlint, it's a old fashioned bavarian "tracht" Sep 24 00:16:54 and they love to wear on on octobre festival Sep 24 00:16:59 heh, i know what lederhosen are, i was joking that you said you understood lederhosen... Sep 24 00:17:17 i've been to bavaria, they wear it outside of oktoberfest :) Sep 24 00:17:22 i missed cincinnati's october fest this year it was last weekend Sep 24 00:17:23 but rest of germany thinks bavaria is more austria than germany ;) Sep 24 00:17:25 albeit, very few do Sep 24 00:17:36 bavaria is too nice to be austria Sep 24 00:17:56 i was looking forward to drinking beer and eating patatoe cakes and sausage Sep 24 00:18:12 the city of campbell has an oktoberfest in about 4 weeks :) Sep 24 00:18:18 i've never been ther. Sep 24 00:18:39 i don't pay this much for one beer Sep 24 00:18:53 how much is it this year? Sep 24 00:19:26 €8? that's not bad Sep 24 00:19:45 8euros for a beer !! Sep 24 00:19:50 remember it's a litre of beer... so €8 buys you more than twice an american pint Sep 24 00:20:15 :p Sep 24 00:20:31 you can buy a litre of beer for 2.4euros here in Egypt Sep 24 00:20:43 but you have at least 10x more alcohol Sep 24 00:20:47 what do muslim countries know about beer? Sep 24 00:20:50 haha Sep 24 00:20:54 is it shitty? Sep 24 00:20:55 lol Sep 24 00:21:00 crappy beer here anyways Sep 24 00:21:16 huhu Sep 24 00:21:20 why does beer exist? Sep 24 00:21:29 so that people can code ? Sep 24 00:21:29 because its good Sep 24 00:21:37 and healthy Sep 24 00:21:51 slaxxin, because it was safer to drink beer than water for much of european civilization Sep 24 00:22:05 lint, so I'm lookin' at bikes... Sep 24 00:22:07 it was to stop starvation Sep 24 00:22:22 slaxxin, what a crappy excuse. Sep 24 00:22:28 lol Sep 24 00:22:38 just eat some fuckin' potatoes or something Sep 24 00:22:41 not when your starving Sep 24 00:22:50 eat plants! Sep 24 00:22:50 in the winter Sep 24 00:22:51 i dunno, those drunks on the streets here don't seem to be starving... that 40 in their hand must be doing something Sep 24 00:22:59 just not lint or code :p Sep 24 00:23:07 lint, yeah :P Sep 24 00:23:24 lint, the bus system was all fucked up today, and I believe they are deceiving us Sep 24 00:23:44 to the extent that their web predictions disagree with their metered ones. Sep 24 00:23:50 they must use different systems Sep 24 00:23:57 i have been thinking the same thing for months now Sep 24 00:24:00 or one uses real data and the other is just bullshit for the consumer Sep 24 00:24:04 muni? or that freakish state you also seem to spend time called nj? Sep 24 00:24:12 haha Sep 24 00:24:16 the latter, unfortunately :P Sep 24 00:24:44 can you tell my mother's from new york? :) Sep 24 00:24:54 :D Sep 24 00:25:08 it might explain... something... Sep 24 00:25:14 * ieatcode gives ieatlint a shifty-eyed look Sep 24 00:25:58 careful, i might think you're coming on to me Sep 24 00:27:12 haha Sep 24 00:27:22 Don't worry, I'm not from your corner... :P Sep 24 00:27:51 what corner is that? Sep 24 00:28:08 heh heh Sep 24 00:28:23 Let's not elaborate further, shall we. :P Sep 24 00:28:38 ;) Sep 24 00:29:20 ok, i'm guying a tmo g1, if i hate it, i bet i can sell it Sep 24 00:29:42 brb Sep 24 00:30:00 heh Sep 24 00:30:13 ieatlint, cool, just make sure not to accidentally pick up thc instead ;) Sep 24 00:30:28 im thinking of doing the same to this freerunner Sep 24 00:30:41 What, smoking it? Sep 24 00:31:31 why does everybody wanna smoke anyways cant u just eat the buds Sep 24 00:31:45 save a lung Sep 24 00:31:56 haha Sep 24 00:32:06 it gets into your bloodstream faster by inhaling it Sep 24 00:32:20 eating it may have other issues, i dunno :P Sep 24 00:32:23 an it goes out faster too Sep 24 00:32:40 people looking for a high aren't thinking long term... Sep 24 00:33:26 like people smoking cigs they dont care untill its too late Sep 24 00:35:09 anyone has experience in using dbus over tcp? Sep 24 00:36:05 dbus over tcp? Ick... but it was bound to happen, I suppose. Sep 24 00:37:41 * mwester-trip imagines another group of developers dancing to the bank with their Intel bribe money, after ensuring that another overhead-filled comms protocol enters the market to sell more and faster Intel hardware. Sep 24 00:39:16 Let's add SSL, 'cause we need security -- and see if Intel will pay us more! Gaaaaah!!! Sep 24 00:40:12 haha, wow Sep 24 00:40:25 Did anyone ever notice how some cellphone seconds are SLIGHTLY faster than real seconds? Sep 24 00:40:35 mwester: dbus over tcp would be useful to link a freerunner+workstation Sep 24 00:40:37 I smell a conspiracy. Sep 24 00:40:48 unknown_lamer, thats my plan Sep 24 00:40:58 mwester: I mean what other transport mechanism would you use? Sep 24 00:41:02 Mwester :) Sep 24 00:41:17 i want to have a applet to send sms, calls, ... Sep 24 00:41:28 unknown_lamer: Something specifically suited for the applications that need to communicate, of course. Sep 24 00:41:39 Like NFS for file transfer. Sep 24 00:41:40 damn, I need to figure out how to get my sound back Sep 24 00:42:04 mwester-trip: but nfs ... is still udp Sep 24 00:42:15 It runs over TCP if you like. Sep 24 00:42:22 Or consider NTP Sep 24 00:42:30 mwester-trip: if you're trying to talk to the fso daemons on another machine I think that dbus *is* that protocol :-) Sep 24 00:42:34 An excellent protocol for transferring time informatoin Sep 24 00:42:48 mwester-trip, i thought of dbus because whole FSO uses it and ir would be easy if you have a "bridge" to your freerunner and a dev could use all the moko libs Sep 24 00:42:52 unknown_lamer: the issue is the protocol, not the daemons or tcp/ip Sep 24 00:43:10 doing dbus over TCP differs from Java RMI in what way? Sep 24 00:43:48 We've been there, done that, it's good for some problems, but overuse just results in security issues, and the sale of more network and system hardware. Sep 24 00:43:52 but what would you use instead? Sep 24 00:44:06 LIke I said: specific tcp/ip messages. Sep 24 00:44:08 NTP for time. Sep 24 00:44:20 NFS for file transfer. Or AFS if yo ulike. Sep 24 00:44:25 but JMI is java only Sep 24 00:44:27 If one doesn't exist, write it. Sep 24 00:44:30 9p Sep 24 00:44:32 I don't think there are many security issues with moko<->computer over BNEP or similar Sep 24 00:44:50 and corba is too heavy for small devices Sep 24 00:44:57 corba is the fucking devil Sep 24 00:44:59 playya: yes, and thank the gods that it hasn't infected C and C++ yet Sep 24 00:45:08 * mwester-trip agrees about CORBA Sep 24 00:45:11 xml-rpc would be the protocol, but somehow adding an extra software layer... i dnno Sep 24 00:45:15 i thought about twister Sep 24 00:45:22 but dbus isn't really much different from corba, is it? Sep 24 00:45:29 xml-rpc is only one way Sep 24 00:45:54 mwester-trip: dbus is actually implementable :-X Sep 24 00:46:06 The bottom line is that a general purpose, object-oriented network-transfer protocol doesn't really fit will with small memory, low-and-unreliable-bandwidth devices. Sep 24 00:46:42 dbus works because it's local -- and even then it sometimes has problems. Sep 24 00:46:48 a freerunner isn't really in the small memory/low bandwidth category when on a home wlan or pan which is ... where dbus over tcp would be useful Sep 24 00:46:51 (not the transport, the comms) Sep 24 00:47:17 unknown_lamer: it sure can't move much data on my wlan. Sep 24 00:47:28 And latency is pretty high. Sep 24 00:47:40 Although one hopes that will get fixed. Some day. Sep 24 00:48:27 i thought of a proxy Sep 24 00:48:42 but this has to run on both systems Sep 24 00:48:45 Anyway, to each his/her own -- I've just had bad experiences with corba, RMI, and all that stuff -- it all looks so neat on the drawings, and demos nicely to management, but when you roll it out in production... wow! Sep 24 00:50:32 corba and java everything are just examples of shitty software Sep 24 00:50:34 anyway, gotta scare up some dinner. back later; maybe my Neo will cough up that missing SMS in the meantime :( Sep 24 00:50:39 design by committee for use by retarded monkeys Sep 24 00:51:55 mwester-trip: aye. the flow-chart moinkeys Sep 24 00:51:59 darligns mof management Sep 24 00:52:05 suck when it comes ot making shit work Sep 24 00:52:34 do you mean the UML nazis? Sep 24 00:53:19 i mean pretty much anyone with some massively over-design goop Sep 24 00:53:29 without real working optimised code to back it up Sep 24 00:53:55 (just having proof of concept code that needs 12gb to run and a 8core 5ghz proc doesn't count) Sep 24 00:54:18 but it is well designed Sep 24 00:54:27 and you can do foo with it Sep 24 00:54:32 dont care if it doesnt work! Sep 24 00:54:34 :) Sep 24 00:54:50 my favorite people are the code monkeys who just gaze at you blindly when you tell them about complexity analysis Sep 24 00:55:11 * raster gazes blindly at unknown_lamer Sep 24 00:55:13 and the oh ... time *and* space matters Sep 24 00:55:28 or model driven architecture Sep 24 00:55:41 :D Sep 24 00:55:53 raster: even if you don't know the math you seem to at least know how to not write a 2^n algorithm for everything :-) Sep 24 00:55:57 * raster finds that pretty much anyone who starts stringin buzzwords together one after the other is generally clueless Sep 24 00:56:00 my prof. always tells me that is is future in about 2-5 years Sep 24 00:56:16 how do you make 2.6.26 boot off NAND? Sep 24 00:56:23 unknown_lamer: i prefer O(n) Sep 24 00:56:25 but hey Sep 24 00:56:29 u cant always win Sep 24 00:56:29 :) Sep 24 00:56:42 i will admit Sep 24 00:56:46 i do have nasties in my code Sep 24 00:56:53 everyone does Sep 24 00:56:54 sometiems i just dont giv a crap Sep 24 00:57:18 ie "the expected input for this will be a dozen things... fuck it. linear search is fine!" Sep 24 00:57:44 the problem is when expected input doesnt end up real world input... Sep 24 00:58:10 at least you can optimize later Sep 24 00:58:14 * raster needs to improve his dictionary stuff <- not very nice lookup code there (but designed it to be ultra-lean on memory though) Sep 24 00:59:41 trees are our friends Sep 24 01:00:03 i belong to the tridge school of coding Sep 24 01:00:11 get the fuck out there and write come code Sep 24 01:00:21 fuck off with your uml flow diagramwhatever crap Sep 24 01:00:34 by the tim u'd written your "design documents" i've finished the software and eithe rprovien it can be done Sep 24 01:00:37 or that it has issues Sep 24 01:00:40 and needs more work Sep 24 01:01:33 raster, could you explain your reasoning using big o notation? Sep 24 01:02:48 heh Sep 24 01:02:59 has someone succeeded booting 2.6.26? Sep 24 01:03:25 ieatcode: :-P~ Sep 24 01:03:36 raster, I like your style Sep 24 01:03:40 More work, less bullshit :) Sep 24 01:03:44 Gets stuff done. Sep 24 01:03:56 Pleases most everyone else, as well. Sep 24 01:04:01 yeah, i haven't done a "flow diagram" since i was forced to Sep 24 01:04:24 haha Sep 24 01:04:58 the teacher kept insisting that it's more important to do diagrams and shit... Sep 24 01:05:33 i just refuse Sep 24 01:05:36 i wont do them Sep 24 01:05:54 i got better things to waste time on Sep 24 01:06:00 like drinking beer Sep 24 01:06:05 thats at leats more productive Sep 24 01:06:06 :) Sep 24 01:06:31 just do a diagram that consists of "main() -> NDA, sorry -> success!" Sep 24 01:06:43 hahaha Sep 24 01:09:39 I don't think unknown_lamer was talking about buzzwords but about CS-stuff. Taking advantage of theoretical knowledge. Sep 24 01:10:06 my prof. was very disappointed because he saw less UML in the practical semester reports Sep 24 01:10:49 your professor sounds terrible Sep 24 01:10:54 UML is so anti-cs it hurts Sep 24 01:12:08 he loves c#, UML, ... Sep 24 01:12:43 ah, attaching himself to things that were dead before they were born Sep 24 01:12:51 and he wants to tell me that c/c++ is dead and stuff like python, perl, ruby isn't needed Sep 24 01:13:01 * balrog-k1n enabled mtd debugging just to see if that magically fixes mtd Sep 24 01:13:15 python, perl, and ruby are not needed ... and c/c++ should be dead so at least he got *that* right Sep 24 01:13:17 C# has some nice features but a big vm behind it Sep 24 01:13:28 the future is somewhere in the MLish world probably Sep 24 01:13:41 MLish? Sep 24 01:13:47 maybe with a better type system (there is Qi which uses sequent calculus which is interesting) Sep 24 01:13:48 sth like amish? Sep 24 01:13:55 one of the descendants of ML :-) Sep 24 01:14:06 unknown_lamer: You're confusing the future with progress. Sep 24 01:14:35 please don't smash my hope :-( it is all I have to keep from killing myself Sep 24 01:14:58 unknown_lamer: Well, become the change you want to see in the world. Sep 24 01:15:13 naturally Sep 24 01:15:17 If you like ML, write ML and convince everyone else of it's superiority. Sep 24 01:15:26 I prefer Lisp aesthetically Sep 24 01:15:38 i never coded lisp Sep 24 01:15:42 I just wish Qi were less fugly then I'd be very happy Sep 24 01:15:57 in europe most of the students start with java or c Sep 24 01:16:01 or if Qi-prolog had an sexp notation Sep 24 01:16:07 heh Sep 24 01:16:21 it is annoying to have to write (defprolog "strings of prolog") Sep 24 01:17:04 * unknown_lamer should dive into the prolog compiler code to see how amenable it is to having different syntax targetted at its internal representation Sep 24 01:19:46 ...oh right.. i'm flashing gta01 images to gta02... 2.6.26 is fine Sep 24 01:25:35 hello Sep 24 01:28:38 balrog-k1n: You had me worried there as I caught up in the log :o Sep 24 01:55:23 mwester-trip: sorry i sometimes cause deaths by heart attack Sep 24 01:55:42 fortunately i recover easily Sep 24 01:56:11 :P Sep 24 01:58:14 that said i still haven't succeeded booting Sep 24 02:41:47 * balrog-k1n gives up on 2.6.26 for now Sep 24 02:42:11 mtd CRC errors all the way Sep 24 02:48:07 :| Sep 24 02:48:43 how is it that qtopia has hold of my sdcard? Sep 24 02:48:54 qtopia let go Sep 24 02:49:11 edit Storage.conf Sep 24 02:49:20 i have 2008.8 instaslled Sep 24 02:50:48 the path? Sep 24 02:51:22 whathell is deadjoe Sep 24 02:51:39 let my storage go? Sep 24 02:51:48 lol Sep 24 02:52:06 calm down there moses :p Sep 24 02:55:33 my media card is to busy to install debian on Sep 24 02:55:58 killall qpe Sep 24 02:55:58 killall: qpe: no process killed Sep 24 02:56:43 heh **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Sep 24 02:59:57 2008