**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Sep 26 02:59:56 2008
Sep 26 04:17:43 <L84supper> I still can't find a link to the schematic capture or pcb layout files, is this available anywhere?
Sep 26 04:24:03 <fredrin> What's the most dangerous that could happen if the GSM firmware was reversenginered? 
Sep 26 04:26:48 <rooly> hmm...possibly hack a tower, maybe the network if you're good
Sep 26 04:27:00 <SpeedEvil> hack - no
Sep 26 04:27:24 <SpeedEvil> freelock: if you make handset-handset link using one channel, you wipe out 16 users of that channel that are talking to the tower.
Sep 26 04:27:36 <SpeedEvil> fredrin: some of which may be on emergency calls
Sep 26 04:28:17 <SpeedEvil> That's even without 'hacking' - just unauthorised use.
Sep 26 04:28:27 <rooly> hence the illegal part...
Sep 26 04:28:43 <rooly> also why networks are encrypted
Sep 26 04:28:59 <SpeedEvil> Encryption is not really the problem.
Sep 26 04:29:11 <SpeedEvil> Wireless comms is essentially broadcast.
Sep 26 04:29:17 <SpeedEvil> Everyone recieves it.
Sep 26 04:29:36 <SpeedEvil> Cellphones work so well because they coordinate so that only one is transmitting at once on any channel.
Sep 26 04:29:53 <SpeedEvil> (in a given range)
Sep 26 04:31:53 <jitu3485> can I add a custom library in moko build ? if yes how?
Sep 26 04:33:04 <lindi-> jitu3485: maybe you need to write bitbake recipe for it?
Sep 26 04:34:28 <DocScrutinizer> L84supper: http://www.openmoko.com/download-schematics.html
Sep 26 04:35:09 <L84supper> those are only pdf's
Sep 26 04:36:01 <jitu3485> lindi-, then make build-package-<my_package> ?
Sep 26 04:36:09 <DocScrutinizer> L84supper: that's all you may get
Sep 26 04:36:15 <ieatlint> L84supper, try look on that link on the left side of the screen
Sep 26 04:36:23 <ieatlint> ahemcadahem
Sep 26 04:37:02 <L84supper> DocScrutinizer: is there a hidden link to the CAD files for schematic and PCB? any gebrber output or tool fil
Sep 26 04:37:13 <L84supper> tool files, excellon?
Sep 26 04:37:29 <DocScrutinizer> nope, we won't publish gerber
Sep 26 04:37:58 <L84supper> so I'd have to generate my own and then create an openermoko site
Sep 26 04:38:49 <DocScrutinizer> go ahead. I don't see why you would need them anyway, except to build your own FR, and then sell it 5$ less than OM
Sep 26 04:39:00 <L84supper> VIA is the same way with their open notebook design, mechanical cad for enclosure, no schematic capture or pcb files in the wild
Sep 26 04:39:23 <DocScrutinizer> FTW is a schematic caprure?
Sep 26 04:39:34 <SpeedEvil> schematic in a usable form
Sep 26 04:39:54 <DocScrutinizer> use for WHAT?
Sep 26 04:39:54 <SpeedEvil> with the PDF, you have to enter it into a package to say which pin is connected to which before you can make a board.
Sep 26 04:40:13 <L84supper> well, its to do mods of the freerunner a couple weeks faster
Sep 26 04:40:18 <SpeedEvil> with a schematic loaded in a schematic editor, you can easily change the circuit.
Sep 26 04:40:25 <DocScrutinizer> exactly. We sell the boards, you don't need to make them yourself ;-)
Sep 26 04:40:35 <SpeedEvil> L84supper: I would not assume that the FR boards are copyright free.
Sep 26 04:40:41 <SpeedEvil> FR design
Sep 26 04:41:38 <L84supper> hmm  almost-openmoko (runs to trademark office)
Sep 26 04:42:06 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: exactly. FR is IP of OM. Publishing schem doesn't mean we want to see some chinese carbon copy of FR 
Sep 26 04:42:13 <rooly> anyone know of very light screen-draw capable applications?
Sep 26 04:42:21 <rooly> or will i have to make my own
Sep 26 04:45:34 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: you can change the schematics, not the actual circuit. A small difference, but the reason we don't plan to publish project files. You don't need them if you use FR the way we like it
Sep 26 04:45:59 <L84supper> some of the coreboot devs were talking up this project, didn't realize it's turning into what happened with the XO/olpc
Sep 26 04:49:05 <slaxxin> Nokia last week told delegates at a technology conference the next version of its Linux maemo software will give devices access to 3G networks, while it also upgraded its membership in the Linux Foundation to gold level
Sep 26 04:50:56 <slaxxin> symbian owns 1/2 of the cell market an  nohia is fixing to open source it   Y A Y
Sep 26 04:51:32 <DocScrutinizer> slaxxin: I think there should be some *HW* to enable 3G-access for N8x0 tablets. SW enable 3G access just sounds like a simple 2 AT commands via BT to the coupled phone
Sep 26 04:54:41 <DocScrutinizer> slaxxin: btw, I got me a N810 this week, to compare some of the HW details, and get some inspiration for next OM products. Really, a smart pile of chips! Lovely :-)
Sep 26 04:57:48 <DocScrutinizer> Anyway TTFF for GPS is ~15..40min. Same issue as with FR: need to download efem/alm first ;-)
Sep 26 05:11:42 <GiggleLoop> g'morning
Sep 26 05:33:16 <CIA-22> openmoko: 03olv 07org.openmoko.dev * ra57d265ce1d3 10/ (4 files in 3 dirs): [diversity-daemon] Bump up the revision to 571.
Sep 26 05:45:22 <CIA-22> openmoko: 03olv 07org.openmoko.dev * raf367cd54691 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [om-locations] Bump up to 5e6efbac816c3a7ab7846e06b27f176325e1562f.
Sep 26 06:07:56 <MnemonicPunk> Good morning. =) I just installed Openmoko 2008.8 on my phone. Is it normal for the first boot to take a while?
Sep 26 06:09:30 <raster> all boots take a while
Sep 26 06:10:20 <MnemonicPunk> I think it crashed. =( After the "Booting..." went to 100%, the screen with what looks like a cursor in the upper left corner but nothing is happening.
Sep 26 06:11:17 <ljp_> first boot after a flash takes longer than other boots, as it configures things like dropbear keys
Sep 26 06:11:38 <raster> those damn dropbears
Sep 26 06:11:46 <raster> poor tourists dont have a chance
Sep 26 06:12:06 <MnemonicPunk> But it does that configuring with an empty, black screen? o.o
Sep 26 06:12:07 <FxChiP> What the heck's a dropbear?
Sep 26 06:12:47 <MnemonicPunk> (I didn't flash it but installed it to SD o.o)
Sep 26 06:14:53 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * r23fbc817c8c7 10/ (conf/example/frameworkd.conf framework/persist.py): frameworkd: add simple persistance module
Sep 26 06:16:00 <MnemonicPunk> I'm not using a freerunner. Maybe that's the reason? =( Older image from 2007.12 worked well.
Sep 26 06:20:15 <FxChiP> raster, why'd you leave teh OpenMoko? :(
Sep 26 06:21:03 <raster> mainly professional company-structure/agreement related
Sep 26 06:27:28 <lindi-> jitu3485: i don't remember those by heart sorry
Sep 26 06:27:41 <jitu3485> ok
Sep 26 06:29:30 <MnemonicPunk> Giving the FSO Milestone 3 a try now. =)
Sep 26 06:35:47 <GiggleLoop> mmh...  can I somehow put FSO M3 to sleep (suspend)?
Sep 26 06:39:47 <lindi-> GiggleLoop: do you know python?
Sep 26 06:52:58 <nataraj> hi
Sep 26 06:53:15 <nataraj> Any body from India whos using FreeRunner?
Sep 26 06:54:04 <nataraj> does FreeRunner have normal Ethernet?
Sep 26 06:54:55 <nataraj> how do i see the logs?
Sep 26 06:55:45 <max_posedon> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner
Sep 26 07:15:37 <GiggleLoop> lindi-: sure. at least a bit... :)
Sep 26 07:15:58 <nataraj> $399 price is a killer
Sep 26 07:16:43 <nataraj> any way to get it under $200?
Sep 26 07:16:52 <jitu3485> hi I am building helloworld example (ref:http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Customizing_the_Openmoko_Distribution) on my latest asu build . it is throwing error, Error log: URL: http://rafb.net/p/tuvIEf74.html
Sep 26 07:17:10 <GiggleLoop> lindi-: did a jabber-bot in python a while back...
Sep 26 07:39:35 <Hopscotch> good morning
Sep 26 07:40:30 <caratorn> hello,
Sep 26 08:24:07 <yabo> Hello
Sep 26 08:25:00 <yabo> Python modules are all .py right, so if i copied the files from /Lib to /lib on my freerunner, some of them would work right? But how would that work with the extended modules (the c-wrappers)?
Sep 26 08:25:01 <raster> muahahhaha!
Sep 26 08:25:06 <raster> at last!
Sep 26 08:25:15 <raster>  36M openmoko-illume-image-glibc-ipk--20080926-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2
Sep 26 08:25:17 <yabo> Oh and is there a package with the most common python-modules for the freerunner?
Sep 26 08:25:35 <raster> ok
Sep 26 08:25:40 <raster> time to lean this down and remove crap
Sep 26 08:48:59 <caratorn> Does anyone know if it is possible to adjust the pressure to get a button press event on the freerunner?
Sep 26 09:03:58 <pooze> I have flashed my freerunner with 2008.8 a good while back, and lately I have seen no updates using opkg update && opkg upgrade
Sep 26 09:04:26 <pooze> I assume this is because of the 2008.9 release, and that I'm probably using the wrong repositories to get these latest updates
Sep 26 09:04:51 <pooze> can I just change the repositories, or do I need to reflash the phone?
Sep 26 09:07:49 <raster> caratorn: the touchscreen?
Sep 26 09:08:52 <caratorn> raster: yes, is there a way for it not to generate button press all the time?
Sep 26 09:09:12 <Gnutoo> hello, is dfu-util an official tool?
Sep 26 09:09:39 <Tig|_> Gnutoo: as far as I know yes
Sep 26 09:09:40 <SpeedEvil> yes
Sep 26 09:10:09 <raster> caratorn:  no idea. i wish i knew how to make it more sensitve (needs less pressure to get/keep a press)
Sep 26 09:10:10 <Gnutoo> so if i bugreport to the openmoko bugreporting system it will be ok
Sep 26 09:10:13 <Gnutoo> thanks
Sep 26 09:11:32 <PBeck> ahoi
Sep 26 09:11:34 <pooze> can I from 2008.8 just use 2008.9 repositories to get the lastest updates?
Sep 26 09:12:06 <caratorn> raster: Using the Xlib when dragging the finger around it generates lots of button press/release for me
Sep 26 09:14:47 <raster> same
Sep 26 09:14:54 <raster> and tis damn annoying
Sep 26 09:15:04 <raster> it makes usoing the ts reliably for dragging stuff very hard
Sep 26 09:15:47 <caratorn> is it soft or hardware related?
Sep 26 09:19:10 <raster> i think hardware
Sep 26 09:19:35 <raster> itds a pressure ts. so u need a certain amount of pressure on a point to get it to regitser current "ie a touch"
Sep 26 09:19:49 <raster> if its a stylus its easy - all mass is concentrated on a small point
Sep 26 09:19:53 <raster> if its the flat of yoru finger
Sep 26 09:19:59 <raster> all pressure is spread acorss your finger
Sep 26 09:20:09 <raster> and your finger is also soft and so absorbs the pressure too
Sep 26 09:20:45 <caratorn> yes, there is no problem with a stylus
Sep 26 09:20:54 <raster> yup
Sep 26 09:21:10 <SpeedEvil> Anyway - there is an easy fix.
Sep 26 09:21:26 * SpeedEvil passes caratorn a pencil sharpener.
Sep 26 09:21:34 <raster> sharp fingers!
Sep 26 09:21:44 <raster> i tend to use my fingernail
Sep 26 09:21:50 <SpeedEvil> Me too.
Sep 26 09:21:54 <raster> though i do test the keyboard with both fingernail and flat of giner
Sep 26 09:21:59 <raster> its working nicely these days...
Sep 26 09:22:09 <raster> i now have my own images
Sep 26 09:22:11 <raster> MUHAHAHAHHA
Sep 26 09:22:14 <caratorn> SpeedEvil: I'd rather pass on that!
Sep 26 09:22:31 <raster>  39M openmoko-illume-image-glibc-ipk--20080926-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2.summary
Sep 26 09:22:42 * raster cackles
Sep 26 09:22:44 <mjr> hmh, I don't find at least the screensaver drag from 2007.2 difficult to do with a finger, but ymmv...
Sep 26 09:23:07 <caratorn> btw, is there a way to make an input window size not to take all the screen width?
Sep 26 09:23:32 <raster> caratorn:  no - thats just display policy
Sep 26 09:23:39 <raster> all windwos are forced to screen width
Sep 26 09:23:48 <caratorn> aargh
Sep 26 09:23:59 <caratorn> why is that?
Sep 26 09:26:02 <raster> just decided to make it so
Sep 26 09:26:55 <caratorn> and we can't center it or move it to the right corner?
Sep 26 09:27:10 <raster> could
Sep 26 09:27:19 <raster> but that just isnt what the code does
Sep 26 09:27:23 <raster> :)
Sep 26 09:27:44 <caratorn> is illume reponsible for that?
Sep 26 09:27:45 <raster> dialgo windows get a titlebar and their hight can be limited by minimum height of window
Sep 26 09:27:53 <raster> width is always maximum width (screen)
Sep 26 09:27:55 <raster> yes
Sep 26 09:28:02 <raster> its just what the layout manager code policy does
Sep 26 09:28:28 <OdyX> ?
Sep 26 09:28:28 <raster> illume is just a module for e that hooks into the layout border hooks and enforces a policy
Sep 26 09:28:38 <raster> that policy just happens to have no config options
Sep 26 09:30:18 <caratorn> but it'd be feasable
Sep 26 09:30:55 <raster> yes - easily
Sep 26 09:31:16 <raster> but right now i need to get e's existing config options (that make sense) usable in their existing dialogs
Sep 26 09:31:23 <raster> then i can worry about adding more and more
Sep 26 09:31:33 <raster> i'm all for more config options when they are wanted/needed
Sep 26 09:31:37 <raster> (it makes sense)
Sep 26 09:31:51 <raster> ie "force dialogs to be maximised" could be one
Sep 26 09:31:59 <caratorn> good to know
Sep 26 09:31:59 <raster> another to "maximise only horizontally"
Sep 26 09:32:09 <raster> or "provide dialog border for dialogs"
Sep 26 09:32:10 <raster> etc. etc.
Sep 26 09:32:15 <raster> all of these could be options
Sep 26 09:32:20 <raster> not hard at all
Sep 26 09:32:31 <raster> the TOUGH part is how to show these options to users
Sep 26 09:32:40 <raster> i have lots of config dialogs in e and illume
Sep 26 09:32:43 <raster> 50+ dialogs
Sep 26 09:32:48 <raster> but most dont fit on the screen
Sep 26 09:32:50 <raster> too big
Sep 26 09:32:55 <raster> due to high dpi and small size
Sep 26 09:32:59 <raster> so i need a way to make them fit
Sep 26 09:33:06 <raster> and not have to always go re-design/re-code the dialogs
Sep 26 09:33:09 <raster> have it "automatic"
Sep 26 09:33:16 <raster> so the dialogs auto-re-arrange themselves
Sep 26 09:33:24 <raster> ... maybe thats just too much of a dream?
Sep 26 09:33:33 <ieatlint> beer is alcoholic
Sep 26 09:37:12 <caratorn> raster: thank you, see you later
Sep 26 09:37:41 <raster> oh this is so much nicer
Sep 26 09:37:43 <lindi-> GiggleLoop: if you grep SUSPEND from the zhone source you can find the place were it handles suspend
Sep 26 09:37:44 <raster> with a custom image
Sep 26 09:37:53 <raster> so much less "cruft" on it
Sep 26 09:39:20 <ieatlint> "cruft"?
Sep 26 09:39:26 <ieatlint> that weird aussie slang?
Sep 26 09:39:33 <raster> "crap"
Sep 26 09:39:35 <raster> "shit"
Sep 26 09:39:44 <raster> "old musty shit in the attic"
Sep 26 09:39:47 <raster> == cruft
Sep 26 09:39:48 <ieatlint> ack, my virgin eyes
Sep 26 09:40:06 <pooze> I have flashed my phone with 2008.8, can I just change repositories to get the 2008.9 updates?
Sep 26 09:40:12 <raster> man actually.. e/illume is much faster on this build...
Sep 26 09:40:57 <ieatlint> i learnt that edje_editor is vaguely nice, except that it lacks a lot of edje features, and produces edj files 10x the size of edc files
Sep 26 09:43:33 <raster> yea
Sep 26 09:43:36 <raster> far from perfect
Sep 26 09:44:03 <raster> but can get u started
Sep 26 09:44:04 <ieatlint> either way, even though i keep harassing you, i am still impressed with e :)
Sep 26 09:44:15 <raster> edje in svn also has python scripts that conver gimp .xcf's
Sep 26 09:44:24 <raster> and inkscape .svg's to .edc
Sep 26 09:44:45 <ieatlint> interesting... i'm on gentoo using the edje svn, but i haven't touched any of that
Sep 26 09:57:30 * hipitihop waves to the residents
Sep 26 09:59:21 <hipitihop> I no longer seem to be able to boot from SD. I had prepared 2008.9 and it fails to boot, simply returns to u-boot and any subsequent option off the menu causes error, even "power off" I have even tried this with another SD card which previously booted fine. Can someone suggest what may be wrong ?
Sep 26 10:02:46 <raster> ieatlint:  check them out. went in recently
Sep 26 10:06:19 <ieatlint> will do ... tomorrow, when i actually sober up
Sep 26 10:06:32 <ieatlint> i'm presently beyond the ballmer peak
Sep 26 10:07:18 <Gnutoo> hello, how do i download a pdf with midori...and view it offline with evince?
Sep 26 10:14:10 <pooze> do I need to reflash the phone from 2008.8 to 2008.9 to get the updates, or is it enough to update the repositories in /etc/opkg ?
Sep 26 10:19:25 <pooze> where would the people suggest I look for the answer to my previous question? I can't seem to find it on the wiki.
Sep 26 10:34:34 <Gnutoo> pooze, i don't know the ansewr but mabe look at the mailing lists...i've tried to upgrade it but it ran out of space...
Sep 26 10:34:43 <Gnutoo> so at the end i flashed
Sep 26 10:38:20 <pooze> thanks for the answer Gnutoo.
Sep 26 10:39:19 <ieatlint> plus whiskey is good
Sep 26 11:09:54 <GiggleLoop> lindi-: thanks. I will have a look.
Sep 26 11:10:41 <MnemonicPunk> I heard something about Debian images for mobile phones. Could someone link me to those? =)
Sep 26 11:11:03 <lindi-> MnemonicPunk: use the installer, i don't fancy the whole concept of images :)
Sep 26 11:11:33 <MnemonicPunk> Problem is I don't have a native linux phone. ^^ So I don't think I can use the installer.
Sep 26 11:11:52 <MnemonicPunk> (WinCE Q_Q But got my oen kernel compiled and running)
Sep 26 11:12:39 <lindi-> MnemonicPunk: just debootstrap your debian on another machine?
Sep 26 11:12:40 <MnemonicPunk> Sorry in case you only want freerunner users asking here. o.o
Sep 26 11:13:14 <MnemonicPunk> lindi-: Is there some tutorial I could follow for that?
Sep 26 11:14:19 <lindi-> MnemonicPunk: the manual page even has examples
Sep 26 11:14:41 <lindi-> MnemonicPunk: just ask if you hit problems
Sep 26 11:15:15 <MnemonicPunk> Okay, thanks, I'll try that. =)
Sep 26 11:17:10 <MnemonicPunk> I can just boot to ubuntu and tell it to debootstrap an armel Ubuntu? o.o That rocks.
Sep 26 11:22:00 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * ra021eb82e985 10/ (3 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)
Sep 26 11:22:00 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: tasklet: Modifications to the tasklet module
Sep 26 11:22:00 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org:  * added the tasklet decorator
Sep 26 11:22:00 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org:  * generator function need to be explicitely specified as a keyword argument in Tasklet.__init__
Sep 26 11:22:00 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org:  * added Tasklet.start_dbus method, that connect to dbus compliant callback methods
Sep 26 11:22:04 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org:  * added the WaitFunc tasklet (useful to connect a tasklet to a function that take callback arguments)
Sep 26 11:22:07 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org:  * added the Sleep tasklet (useful for testing)
Sep 26 11:22:09 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r44c22c845d6c 10/framework/ (3 files in 3 dirs): ousaged: Enable and Disable are now asynchronous, using tasklet module to make things simpler.
Sep 26 11:22:12 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * rb5c541af8694 10/tests/ousaged.py: tests: updated ousaged test suite
Sep 26 11:31:12 <MnemonicPunk> Can I just use an older Openmoko to boot my phone and finish the second part of the installation?
Sep 26 11:34:56 <lindi-> MnemonicPunk: hmm? you can do --second-stage under qemu
Sep 26 11:35:52 <MnemonicPunk> Okay, that appears to be easier. =)
Sep 26 11:57:17 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * r2c4c01d5de49 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/sierra/channel.py: ogsmd.sierra: switch to PDU mode for SMS
Sep 26 12:34:06 <Gnutoo> by the way...for freesmartphone.org...is there a plan for having an api to retrive missed phones calls,and operator's messages?
Sep 26 13:29:03 <MnemonicPunk> lindi-? Maybe you can help me with this: How do I make qemu use my PCs internet to download packages?
Sep 26 13:30:01 <max_posedon> he-he, if quickly, enable virtual tun/tap netwroks in kernel
Sep 26 13:30:42 <max_posedon> create a bridge br0, attach there tap0 and eth0
Sep 26 13:30:55 <max_posedon> start qemu and say him to use tap0
Sep 26 13:45:44 <MnemonicPunk> That didn't work. =(
Sep 26 13:46:18 <MnemonicPunk> I created a bridge between eth0 and tap0, is that right so far?
Sep 26 13:46:20 <lindi-> MnemonicPunk: are you on debian?
Sep 26 13:46:26 <MnemonicPunk> Ubuntu
Sep 26 13:46:37 <MnemonicPunk> So more or less Debian. xD
Sep 26 13:46:53 <lindi-> MnemonicPunk: did you find the qemubuilder instructions from debian wiki?
Sep 26 13:47:30 <lindi-> MnemonicPunk: http://iki.fi/lindi/qemu-network.txt is my bridge setup for x86
Sep 26 13:47:37 <lindi-> MnemonicPunk: with armel i just use user mode networking for now
Sep 26 13:49:17 <MnemonicPunk> I don't see any network devices on qemu yet.
Sep 26 13:49:32 <MnemonicPunk> Did I do something wrong there?
Sep 26 13:50:20 <MnemonicPunk> Or are they added only with the right host config?
Sep 26 13:52:30 <MnemonicPunk> And the third part of your .txt confuses me. Where do I put that?
Sep 26 13:52:58 <MnemonicPunk> Same dir as my qemu files?
Sep 26 13:53:04 <lindi-> MnemonicPunk: you erad it
Sep 26 13:53:53 <MnemonicPunk> I didn't read the qemubuilder instructions yet, no. Will do that now.
Sep 26 13:53:53 <lindi-> MnemonicPunk: "on qemu" means inside qemu?
Sep 26 13:54:00 <MnemonicPunk> Yes.
Sep 26 13:54:07 <MnemonicPunk> No network devices of any kind.
Sep 26 13:54:44 <lindi-> MnemonicPunk: lspci?
Sep 26 13:57:21 <MnemonicPunk> If that is a command, it doesn't exist in qemu Debian. o.o
Sep 26 13:57:44 <lindi-> MnemonicPunk: you haven't used lspci before?
Sep 26 13:58:03 <MnemonicPunk> No. o.o
Sep 26 13:58:11 <lindi-> hmm
Sep 26 13:58:24 <MnemonicPunk> I guess it's like lsusb but for pci?
Sep 26 13:58:28 <lindi-> yeah
Sep 26 13:59:20 <MnemonicPunk> No, never needed that yet. ^^ PCI devices in my x86 work out of the box most of the time and I never used qemu before. xD
Sep 26 14:04:54 <MnemonicPunk> It says "bridge br0 doesn't exist" but I guess that will be alright after a reboot.
Sep 26 14:12:29 <Razz> good day :D
Sep 26 14:14:24 <Razz> does anyone here know if the freerunner is capable of running Ubuntu MID ?
Sep 26 14:15:15 <Razz> anyone here?
Sep 26 14:15:22 <rooly> you can try it, razz
Sep 26 14:15:35 <rooly> just look at the hardware requirements
Sep 26 14:15:44 <Razz> I should, however i still need to wait for my actual freerunner... :S was delayed for 4 weeks...
Sep 26 14:15:51 <rooly> the fr has a 400mhz proc and 128 ram
Sep 26 14:16:27 <Razz> th
Sep 26 14:16:28 <Razz> x
Sep 26 14:17:31 <max_posedon> hm, btw How to check FR cpu speed?
Sep 26 14:17:49 <max_posedon> in /proc/cpuinfo, I just see bogomips(200)
Sep 26 14:18:16 <rooly> you mean current cpu usage, or actual speed in mhz
Sep 26 14:18:23 <max_posedon> Is I correctly understand, that cpu speed clocked to 2000?
Sep 26 14:18:30 <max_posedon> actual speed in mhz
Sep 26 14:18:40 <max_posedon> sorry 200, not 2000)
Sep 26 14:19:21 <rooly> hm
Sep 26 14:19:25 <rooly> i'll have to check that out
Sep 26 14:19:32 <rooly> but not right now, gotta go turn in an essay
Sep 26 14:20:53 <max_posedon> Main question, is *how* to check?)
Sep 26 15:04:48 <slaxxin> my daily alarm goes off every day an i have failed to figure out how to    end   the alarm   ,,,,  
Sep 26 15:05:30 <balrog-kun> take the battery out
Sep 26 15:07:11 <slaxxin> nope
Sep 26 15:07:20 <slaxxin> cant
Sep 26 15:09:14 <MnemonicPunk> lindi-: Thanks for your advice a few minutes ago, I got the bridge working now. Problem is: It still doesn't show under qemu. Do I have to configure something else?
Sep 26 15:10:18 <lindi-> MnemonicPunk: hmm
Sep 26 15:10:31 <lindi-> MnemonicPunk: what does lspci inside qemu say?
Sep 26 15:10:41 <MnemonicPunk> "command not found"
Sep 26 15:10:46 <lindi-> MnemonicPunk: well, install it :)
Sep 26 15:10:56 <MnemonicPunk> *sigh* How? Q_Q
Sep 26 15:11:40 <MnemonicPunk> Manual download with x86 and then put it in the image?
Sep 26 15:12:08 <lindi-> MnemonicPunk: for example, or experiment first with some livecd
Sep 26 15:13:27 <MnemonicPunk> Hm.
Sep 26 15:13:31 <uhsf> you ain't no punk, you punk
Sep 26 15:13:53 <MnemonicPunk> There's no interface tap0 on the x86. Guess I missed something there.
Sep 26 15:18:39 <MnemonicPunk> Alright, got internet working in qemu. =)
Sep 26 15:20:18 <MnemonicPunk> At least I thought I did.
Sep 26 15:21:55 <MnemonicPunk> I can hot-plug eth0 now, though. And ping the gateway address from there. =)
Sep 26 15:22:16 <MnemonicPunk> The gateway IP has to be the x86 IP?
Sep 26 15:23:37 <max_posedon> hm, no
Sep 26 15:23:54 <max_posedon> if you bridget, it might be your regular default gw
Sep 26 15:28:24 <lesouvage> I have a wlan connection (at least the icon is there) but when "updating all" i got e message " error cannot access repository, Please check your network"  what should I check on the network?
Sep 26 15:29:01 <max_posedon> You should begin from checking dns, and ping google.com from terminal.
Sep 26 15:30:53 <lesouvage> btw: gps seem to be working. A red spot was covering the whole netherlands to show that that was my location ;-)
Sep 26 15:32:56 <xzcvczx> is wiki.om working or anyone?
Sep 26 15:35:09 <xzcvczx> s/or/for/
Sep 26 15:35:10 <apt> xzcvczx meant: is wiki.om wforking or anyone?
Sep 26 15:35:29 <xzcvczx> apt: shutup you useless bot
Sep 26 15:39:50 <izzyb> looks like its down for me too :(
Sep 26 15:40:31 <xzcvczx> izzyb: ah ok, thanks.
Sep 26 15:41:01 * izzyb hopes it's back up soon
Sep 26 15:41:12 * xzcvczx agrees
Sep 26 16:01:38 <MnemonicPunk> I am still here? o.o
Sep 26 16:01:45 <MnemonicPunk> Thought my internet crashed.
Sep 26 16:02:24 <MnemonicPunk> lindi-? Mind helping me again?
Sep 26 16:08:49 <lesouvage_> After a reboot my /etc/resolv.conf is empty again. What should I do to keep the lines in /etc/resolv.conf
Sep 26 16:15:10 <fletch> add up echo nameserver 192.168.0.1 >/etc/resolv.conf to /etc/network/interfaces
Sep 26 16:15:34 <fletch> add "up echo nameserver 192.168.0.1 >/etc/resolv.conf" ;)
Sep 26 16:33:51 <MnemonicPunk> Is it just me or is openmoko.org unreachable atm?
Sep 26 16:35:11 <Weiss> http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/openmoko.org
Sep 26 16:37:14 <MnemonicPunk> Oh, right, forgot about that site. ^^
Sep 26 16:37:59 <Weiss> looks like there's some problems
Sep 26 16:38:26 <MnemonicPunk> Alright.
Sep 26 16:38:49 <MnemonicPunk> Just had a little fight with my /etc/network/interfaces so I wasn't sure if it was my fault.
Sep 26 16:39:53 <mwester> somebody forgot to pay the hosting bill?
Sep 26 16:40:22 <alphaone> It works from my server in germany
Sep 26 16:40:36 <mwester> the name doesn't resolve from the US
Sep 26 16:40:41 <alphaone> From .tw it's quite unstable at the moment
Sep 26 16:41:43 <MnemonicPunk> alphaone: What's your provider?
Sep 26 16:41:52 <alphaone> hinet
Sep 26 16:42:06 <MnemonicPunk> Doesn't ring a bell. Arcor here.
Sep 26 16:42:15 <Dave> How are you gentlemen?
Sep 26 16:42:35 <alphaone> MnemonicPunk: But I just tried to browse from germany (DFN / GWiN) and it seems to time out somewhere
Sep 26 16:44:11 <MnemonicPunk> Trace ends at bhavani.openmoko.org o.O
Sep 26 16:44:12 <Dave> Hey alphaone
Sep 26 16:44:24 <alphaone> wiki.openmoko.org seems down
Sep 26 16:44:33 <Dave> oh snap?
Sep 26 16:44:40 <alphaone> http://pastebin.com/m5bd5ee9b
Sep 26 16:44:44 <alphaone> Dave: Hi
Sep 26 16:44:55 <Dave> yeah, it got exploded.
Sep 26 16:45:09 <MnemonicPunk> Not that evil. Just use google cache to view openmoko Wiki pages.
Sep 26 16:45:11 <Dave> What's new, Alpha?
Sep 26 16:47:14 <bricode_> Dave: Dave-o!
Sep 26 16:47:23 <alphaone> Dave: Oh, we have UCS2 support now for SMS and Phonebook entries in the framework
Sep 26 16:48:01 <alphaone> And a lot of talk about what to do next, how to do it. Being in Taipei once again is really productive
Sep 26 16:48:39 <lindi-> mmontour: sure
Sep 26 16:48:45 <lindi-> MnemonicPunk: sure
Sep 26 16:48:49 <lindi-> mmontour: sorry about that
Sep 26 16:49:24 <MnemonicPunk> lindi-: I think I got the hang of creating network bridges now. =)
Sep 26 16:50:06 <Dave> bricode o/
Sep 26 16:50:34 <Dave> alphaone, hooray!
Sep 26 16:50:46 <Dave> So, whast though, does that mean we can make use of it, in a few months?
Sep 26 16:51:02 <Dave> lindi, how many bugs have you squashed?
Sep 26 16:51:12 <alphaone> Dave: Define "make use of it".
Sep 26 16:51:24 <alphaone> You can use it right now for certain stuff
Sep 26 16:51:25 <Dave> heh
Sep 26 16:51:45 <Dave> but there isn't any one application which reaps the benefits of it yet?
Sep 26 16:53:36 * mwester thinks that Om should just cancel the 2008.9 series, and put all resources behind the FSO stuff to speed FSO to market.  Wouldn't even come at any loss to 2008.9, since that firmware doesn't really work yet anyway.
Sep 26 16:54:09 <Dave> I second the motion!
Sep 26 16:54:27 <alphaone> Dave: zhone can display Chinese SMS and Contacts
Sep 26 16:54:35 <Dave> funny, because, doesn't 2008.X have decent ui but shitty framework, and fso seems to now have the reverse? :P
Sep 26 16:54:42 <Dave> terrible UI, but great framework :P
Sep 26 16:54:49 <alphaone> mwester: In that case you would not have a usable UI
Sep 26 16:54:57 <Dave> Alphaone, yes, clearly illustrated by some recent scap posts
Sep 26 16:55:19 <Dave> Why don't we just make a fucking SSHR!?
Sep 26 16:55:23 <mwester> alphaone:  I realize this is opinion, but the 2008 firmwares do not have a usable UI to begin with.  It's tantalizingly close, but not usable.
Sep 26 16:55:26 <alphaone> Dave: Yeah, I was so happy I just had to upload that
Sep 26 16:55:32 <Dave> WHY DON'T ALL THE DISTROS COMBINE TO FORM VOLTRON ALREADY!?!
Sep 26 16:55:43 <Dave> and be done with it :P
Sep 26 16:55:59 <Dave> alphaone, oh that was you? cool. thanks for the picture :)
Sep 26 16:56:04 <MnemonicPunk> Voltron?
Sep 26 16:56:05 <mwester> alphaone:  Zhone is IMO just as usable as 2008.x, and has more potential.
Sep 26 16:56:08 <Dave> YES
Sep 26 16:56:15 <MnemonicPunk> wtf is Voltron? o.o
Sep 26 16:56:20 <Dave> LOOK IT UP
Sep 26 16:56:24 <MnemonicPunk> Sounds like one of the transformers.
Sep 26 16:56:25 <MnemonicPunk> o.o
Sep 26 16:56:30 <GNUtoo> hello, is there a way to activate right click with the styllus such as clicking for a long time? it would be great for midori...
Sep 26 16:56:59 <alphaone> wiki.openmoko.org works again btw
Sep 26 16:57:02 <Dave> Mwester, and what, if anything, do you think of the debian distribution, or in your mind, is that just something completely on its own?
Sep 26 16:57:07 <MnemonicPunk> Great. =)
Sep 26 16:57:11 <Dave> Hooray!
Sep 26 16:57:30 <MnemonicPunk> Gonna need the wiki a lot in the next few days. *g*
Sep 26 16:58:04 <lindi-> MnemonicPunk: cool
Sep 26 16:58:13 <MnemonicPunk> I'm no neo-freerunner-bla-user but the Openmoko sites are great for any mobile linux distro to learn from, I noticed.
Sep 26 16:58:14 <lindi-> Dave: in total? no idea
Sep 26 16:58:26 <Dave> heh
Sep 26 16:58:31 <Dave> Lindi, how many since yesterday? ;)
Sep 26 16:58:40 <lindi-> haven't counted
Sep 26 16:58:40 <alphaone> MnemonicPunk: Cool
Sep 26 16:58:43 <lindi-> at least two
Sep 26 16:58:49 <Dave> woo
Sep 26 16:58:52 <Dave> Go lindi!
Sep 26 16:59:01 <Dave> Lindi, I wonder if there are any I can tackle :p
Sep 26 16:59:09 <MnemonicPunk> But in case I can't get it bootstrapped, does anyone have a debain ARM image thats <2 Gig?
Sep 26 16:59:10 <lindi-> Dave: i'm sure there are
Sep 26 16:59:27 <mwester> Dave: Debian is a desktop distro -- perfect for people who want a small desktop that just happens to have a (really shitty) GSM modem attached to it.  Qtopia is perfect for people who want a phone that just happens to run Linux.  What we are missing is something that fits in between -- the best model IMO is the Nokia Internet Tablet.
Sep 26 16:59:28 <Dave> Oh, and to whomever thought of it the other day... qtopia on SD, is not as amazing as they made it sound.
Sep 26 16:59:36 <GNUtoo> mwester: the problem with FSO is that you don't have missed-calls and operators messages(such as the credit left at the end of each calls)(or am i wrong)
Sep 26 16:59:57 * MnemonicPunk is one of those who want a small desktop. =)
Sep 26 16:59:57 <Dave> Nokia internet tablet?
Sep 26 17:00:02 <Dave> which model is that?
Sep 26 17:00:13 <Dave> MnemonicPunk, perhaps you should install debian then? :D
Sep 26 17:00:16 <nyu> mwester: debian's not a desktop distro!
Sep 26 17:00:17 <mwester> GNUtoo:  Yep.  But since 2008.9 doesn't work correctly most of the time, that's irrellevant.
Sep 26 17:00:31 <nyu> it runs on servers and embedded too
Sep 26 17:00:32 <MnemonicPunk> Dave: Guess what I'm doing right now? ^^
Sep 26 17:00:35 <mwester> Dave:  N800 and N810 -- Maemo.
Sep 26 17:00:41 <Dave> ah, yeah
Sep 26 17:00:52 <Dave> What is it that runs on the RX-44 then?
Sep 26 17:00:57 <MnemonicPunk> I mean... Microsoft tried to create a small desktop with WinCE. Epic fail. xD
Sep 26 17:01:01 <Dave> I see all those pretty pictures on scap all the time.
Sep 26 17:01:08 <Dave> looks like some KDE ripoff
Sep 26 17:01:29 <MnemonicPunk> Opie maybe?
Sep 26 17:01:45 <mwester> nyu:  you're right -- it's also a fabulous server distro, probably better than Fedora at that.
Sep 26 17:01:59 <Dave> true that
Sep 26 17:02:00 <nyu> :-)
Sep 26 17:02:00 <Tig|_> MnemonicPunk: I remember that on my Collie :)
Sep 26 17:02:19 <MnemonicPunk> But Ubuntu one-ups Debian on the normal, not too low-end Desktop PC.
Sep 26 17:02:24 <nyu> mwester: I hope it becomes a good phone distro too.  in the meantime I use qtopia ;-)
Sep 26 17:02:41 <Tig|_> Dave!
Sep 26 17:03:00 <GNUtoo> mwester: yes...but for now i use my old phone...because i do not have missed-calls on FSO or no echo on qtopia...after if theses bugs are fixed...mabe i'll consider using it as a phone(not shure because i will have to pay attention to the battery life and not play with wifi or gps...)
Sep 26 17:03:07 <nyu> or qtopia/openmoko to be more accurate
Sep 26 17:03:09 <MnemonicPunk> My favorite Desktop distro atm is Arch Linux though.
Sep 26 17:03:17 <Dave> Tig!
Sep 26 17:03:29 <nyu> since there could also be qtopia/debian, etc
Sep 26 17:03:51 <mwester> nyu:  I too have switched to qtopia -- I'm not blind to qtopia's faults and I'm still critical of it, but it's the best we have, and the only stable environment we can use to flush out and solve the remaining troublesome kernel, battery life, and GSM problems.
Sep 26 17:03:58 <MnemonicPunk> Does anyone consider xfce/debian + cellphone widgets?
Sep 26 17:04:02 <Dave> haha, the Missed Calls functionality works -too- well on 2007
Sep 26 17:04:07 <Dave> to the point where it annoys me
Sep 26 17:04:31 <Dave> Mwester, here here!
Sep 26 17:04:32 <Dave> :D
Sep 26 17:04:42 <lindi-> GNUtoo: simple call log should be easy
Sep 26 17:04:57 <lindi-> MnemonicPunk: cellphone widgets?
Sep 26 17:05:09 <Dave> sounds hot
Sep 26 17:05:14 <Dave> more like iphone style
Sep 26 17:05:51 <GNUtoo> lindi-: ok...but i think to implement it well you must access the sim(via the TI calypso chip of course) because if i remember well they are stored on the sim
Sep 26 17:06:00 <MnemonicPunk> lindi-: Yeh. May be a personal opinion but I'd like a minimalist but REAL desktop, not a background picture with icons it and then some widgets that show missed calls, network, battery life, maybe the latest SMS in the style of an RSS feed.
Sep 26 17:06:04 <Dave> Mwester, so what does the rx44 run? I still haven't figured it out - though I never bothered to actually look into it :)
Sep 26 17:06:06 <lindi-> GNUtoo: are they?
Sep 26 17:06:13 <mwester> Dave: dunno.
Sep 26 17:06:20 <mwester> I've never looked either.
Sep 26 17:06:29 <lindi-> MnemonicPunk: hmm
Sep 26 17:06:30 <Dave> You have seen all those screenshots though, right?
Sep 26 17:06:42 <lindi-> MnemonicPunk: maybe i am biased since i don't use desktop on my real computer either
Sep 26 17:06:43 <Dave> It's running all these blatantly KDE like apps.
Sep 26 17:06:53 <Dave> it does look very pretty and polished though
Sep 26 17:06:58 <MnemonicPunk> lindi-: What do you use then? o.o
Sep 26 17:07:10 <lindi-> MnemonicPunk: just a window manager, no desktop environment
Sep 26 17:07:14 <MnemonicPunk> Ah.
Sep 26 17:07:15 <GNUtoo> lindi-: i think so because otherwise from what mean the phone could tell me the missed calls ...missed from another phone...but i'll doubble check
Sep 26 17:07:29 <MnemonicPunk> No I don't mean a desktop environment. Not necessarily.
Sep 26 17:07:33 <Dave> Oh and alphaone, thanks for the screenshots of the sms :)
Sep 26 17:07:37 <lindi-> MnemonicPunk: so i have workspaces, can move/resize windows and start new programs
Sep 26 17:07:37 <Dave> We don't need anymore though :P
Sep 26 17:07:41 <lindi-> MnemonicPunk: but that's about it
Sep 26 17:08:01 <lindi-> GNUtoo: ok but would you be happy with simple call log
Sep 26 17:08:04 <MnemonicPunk> Sounds okay to me. ^^
Sep 26 17:08:06 <Dave> man, all these beagle whores
Sep 26 17:08:12 <pogan0> hi ppl
Sep 26 17:08:12 <Dave> trying to one-up our mokos
Sep 26 17:08:50 <GNUtoo> lindi-: mabe...how do i implement it?(and is there a lot of apps compiled for FSO?)
Sep 26 17:09:14 <alphaone> Dave: Heh :-)
Sep 26 17:09:31 <lindi-> GNUtoo: if you just run dbus-monitor you will see the calls
Sep 26 17:09:35 <Dave> ;)
Sep 26 17:09:44 <FxChiP> ?
Sep 26 17:09:55 <Dave> Which scap had filtering, good thing I started to spinoff my  own :)
Sep 26 17:10:06 <lindi-> GNUtoo: so the el'cheapo solution is to run sudo su bin -c "dbus-monitor --system" > calls.log
Sep 26 17:10:23 <MnemonicPunk> Hm.
Sep 26 17:10:36 * MnemonicPunk << NoMoko xD
Sep 26 17:10:47 <GNUtoo> lindi-: ok...couldn't i do a more elegant system with python?
Sep 26 17:12:03 <Dave> :D
Sep 26 17:12:10 <Dave> moko moko moko
Sep 26 17:12:37 <GNUtoo> such as a a file that have date;person
Sep 26 17:12:46 <GNUtoo> and make a treeview of it
Sep 26 17:13:01 <pogan0> what cpu has moko ?
Sep 26 17:13:10 <lindi-> GNUtoo: yeah should be quite easy
Sep 26 17:13:15 <romulo> 400mhz on freerunner
Sep 26 17:13:16 <GNUtoo> ok
Sep 26 17:13:21 <MnemonicPunk> 400 only?
Sep 26 17:13:21 <unknown_lamer> pogan0: 400MHz ARMv4t
Sep 26 17:13:22 <MnemonicPunk> o.o
Sep 26 17:13:28 <MnemonicPunk> But a 3D chip eh?
Sep 26 17:13:30 <GNUtoo> i'll install FSO on my s512MB sd-card
Sep 26 17:13:32 <romulo> only? why only?
Sep 26 17:13:37 <MnemonicPunk> Well...
Sep 26 17:13:46 <MnemonicPunk> My Magician is 4 years old.
Sep 26 17:13:49 <unknown_lamer> MnemonicPunk: a very slow 3d chip that can't do 3d ... no drivers
Sep 26 17:14:02 <MnemonicPunk> And it has 421mhz
Sep 26 17:14:02 <pogan0> can i run this os on smatphone ?
Sep 26 17:14:11 <unknown_lamer> hey I did common lisp development on a 166MHz pentium with 16M of RAM
Sep 26 17:14:12 <MnemonicPunk> And can be safely overclocked to ~600mhz
Sep 26 17:14:34 <unknown_lamer> the processor is actually underclocked :-\
Sep 26 17:14:40 <unknown_lamer> (it can do 500MHz)
Sep 26 17:14:47 <MnemonicPunk> The Moko one?
Sep 26 17:14:54 <unknown_lamer> but there was something involving RAM and some bus multipliers
Sep 26 17:15:06 <unknown_lamer> yeah
Sep 26 17:15:24 <MnemonicPunk> If the next Moko phone has Wifi and some decent 3D power, I'm so gonna buy. xD
Sep 26 17:15:27 <GNUtoo> lindi-: confirmed...i have outgoing calls even if i didn't made calls with the freshly flashed 2008.9
Sep 26 17:15:44 <FxChiP> er
Sep 26 17:15:52 <FxChiP> the CURRENT Moko phone has wifi
Sep 26 17:15:55 <romulo> yeah
Sep 26 17:15:59 <romulo> i bought mine yesterday
Sep 26 17:16:02 <romulo> too bad it will take 3 months to arrive
Sep 26 17:16:03 <romulo> :P
Sep 26 17:16:04 <unknown_lamer> MnemonicPunk: the next moko takes the gfx chip out
Sep 26 17:16:23 <MnemonicPunk> I just meant that Wifi is a must for me, if I get a new phone. ^^
Sep 26 17:16:27 <Dave> fxchip :o
Sep 26 17:16:34 <unknown_lamer> MnemonicPunk: but ups the memory and processor speed (100MHz -> 133MHz [IIRC] / 400 -> 500)
Sep 26 17:16:50 <Dave> that would be nice
Sep 26 17:16:57 <lindi-> GNUtoo: ok they are on sim then. can you figure out how to retrieve them?
Sep 26 17:16:58 <Dave> that way the fb can catch up o.O
Sep 26 17:17:12 <unknown_lamer> and the one after that *might* use the sc6410 and summarily kill the iPhone
Sep 26 17:17:18 <unknown_lamer> just by existing
Sep 26 17:17:30 <MnemonicPunk> The next big hardware battle in mobile phones will be graphics and effects anyway. Saw the new Apple commercials? or the new Symbian ones?
Sep 26 17:17:36 <unknown_lamer> my favorite part about the iPhone is the continual "OH EM GEE THE NDA IS SO TERRIBLE"
Sep 26 17:17:40 <GNUtoo> lindi-: yes with AT commands...
Sep 26 17:17:46 <unknown_lamer> but ... "apple has me by the balls but I'm still writing code for it!"
Sep 26 17:17:49 <Dave> haha
Sep 26 17:17:49 <lindi-> GNUtoo: can you please capture what is sent/received on your phone?
Sep 26 17:18:03 <Dave> unknown_lamer, so I take it you're not one of those? :P
Sep 26 17:18:17 <FxChiP> eh?
Sep 26 17:18:28 <MnemonicPunk> unknown_lamer: Yes, that's my main reasion for never buying apple. Even M$ is more open with their platform. And that means something.
Sep 26 17:18:28 <GNUtoo> lindi-: i'm on 2008.9 now...must install FSO first
Sep 26 17:18:39 <Dave> really?
Sep 26 17:18:42 <romulo> apple sucks
Sep 26 17:18:45 <Dave> hahaha
Sep 26 17:18:53 <FxChiP> They're removing the graphics chip?
Sep 26 17:19:00 <Dave> glamo go byebye
Sep 26 17:19:01 <FxChiP> No 3D in the next GTA?
Sep 26 17:19:02 <MnemonicPunk> lol
Sep 26 17:19:07 <nyu> "think different"
Sep 26 17:19:12 <FxChiP> psh
Sep 26 17:19:15 <FxChiP> I have an iPhone
Sep 26 17:19:15 <Dave> "think non-shitty"
Sep 26 17:19:18 <MnemonicPunk> Can someone provide me with a Debian image? Q_Q
Sep 26 17:19:19 <FxChiP> I do want a Moko, however
Sep 26 17:19:25 <unknown_lamer> Dave: the last mac I owned was a user powermac 7100/66
Sep 26 17:19:30 <Dave> So, has anybody installed Openmoko on their iPhone yet?
Sep 26 17:19:37 <Dave> unknown_lamer: sweet :D
Sep 26 17:19:45 <FxChiP> Dave, there are... hurdles.
Sep 26 17:19:52 <Dave> hurdles?
Sep 26 17:19:52 <FxChiP> www.iphonelinux.org
Sep 26 17:19:54 <unknown_lamer> s/user/used/
Sep 26 17:19:54 <apt> unknown_lamer meant: Dave: the last mac I owned was a used powermac 7100/66
Sep 26 17:19:55 <Dave> :o
Sep 26 17:19:58 <Dave> oh snap
Sep 26 17:19:58 <MnemonicPunk> Oh wait, there is Zubuntu. *remembers*
Sep 26 17:20:02 <Dave> there's already a cult gathering?
Sep 26 17:20:09 <nyu> Dave: is that even legal?
Sep 26 17:20:13 <FxChiP> Sort of. There's one guy who's presently writing all the low-level shit and needs help.
Sep 26 17:20:13 <MnemonicPunk> Anyone installed Android on their iPhone yet? *g*
Sep 26 17:20:19 <Dave> unknown_lamer, I have two Apple ][e's :)
Sep 26 17:20:24 <Dave> that's it though
Sep 26 17:20:27 <unknown_lamer> OM and AMD are the only two companies ethical enough for me to buy anything from nowadays
Sep 26 17:20:30 <Dave> as far as apple products go
Sep 26 17:20:35 <unknown_lamer> (in the hardware realm)
Sep 26 17:20:35 <FxChiP> unknown_lamer, what?
Sep 26 17:20:38 <FxChiP> Intel's not ethical?
Sep 26 17:20:43 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rd7f56ccf51bf 10/framework/resource.py: resource.py: be prepared that OUsaged can be disabled
Sep 26 17:20:49 <nyu> unknown_lamer: AMD is a member of the Treacherous Computer Consortium
Sep 26 17:20:59 <Dave> the TCC?
Sep 26 17:21:04 <nyu> unknown_lamer: though, Intel is too so they're even on that
Sep 26 17:21:04 <Dave> :D
Sep 26 17:21:07 <unknown_lamer> FxChiP: I guess they are but ... their chips are all integrated and I have an athlonmp
Sep 26 17:21:11 <FxChiP> Dave, the BIGGEST hurdle is the fact that the iPhone sig-checks everything in-hardware
Sep 26 17:21:21 <Dave> zomg!
Sep 26 17:21:25 <unknown_lamer> nyu: TCC isn't very threatening until everyone is running EFI
Sep 26 17:21:36 <unknown_lamer> until then yay handy little on board rng and crypto chip?
Sep 26 17:21:38 <FxChiP> no
Sep 26 17:21:41 <nyu> unknown_lamer: true.  Intel is much, much worse
Sep 26 17:21:55 <nyu> also, AMD supports coreboot
Sep 26 17:22:00 <Dave> checks EVERYTHING in hardware?
Sep 26 17:22:03 <FxChiP> Once again: Intel's not ethical?
Sep 26 17:22:04 <nyu> just wanted to point out they're not precisely saints
Sep 26 17:22:05 <Dave> What the fuck?
Sep 26 17:22:12 <FxChiP> Dave, here's what happens:
Sep 26 17:22:16 <FxChiP> You turn on your iPhone
Sep 26 17:22:31 <unknown_lamer> oh right apple's ARM has the /security/ extensions right?
Sep 26 17:22:32 <FxChiP> The first chip, which is read-only, *signature-checks* (NOT HASH VERIFIES) the iBoot firmware.
Sep 26 17:22:40 <nyu> FxChiP: you have to sign an NDA to turn it on?
Sep 26 17:22:43 <FxChiP> no
Sep 26 17:22:49 <Dave> ugggh iBoot?
Sep 26 17:22:55 <FxChiP> And then iBoot comes up
Sep 26 17:22:58 <Dave> nyu :)
Sep 26 17:23:00 <FxChiP> Sorry
Sep 26 17:23:09 <FxChiP> The read-only chip doesn't boot iBoot
Sep 26 17:23:11 <FxChiP> It boots LLB
Sep 26 17:23:14 <FxChiP> Which does other stuff
Sep 26 17:23:14 <nyu> FxChiP: sounds like a complete Treacherous Computing stack
Sep 26 17:23:19 <FxChiP> Then sig-checks iBoot
Sep 26 17:23:23 <FxChiP> If iBoot's okay, boots iBoot
Sep 26 17:23:26 <FxChiP> Then iBoot comes up
Sep 26 17:23:26 <Dave> deep magic?
Sep 26 17:23:27 <GNUtoo> hello, is there a lot of packages on FSO or just the image?
Sep 26 17:23:27 <nyu> now you have to find the DRM at the other end
Sep 26 17:23:29 <FxChiP> Signature-checks the kernel
Sep 26 17:23:36 <FxChiP> IF the kernel's okay, boots the kernel
Sep 26 17:23:46 <Dave> UGGH
Sep 26 17:23:49 <FxChiP> And the kernel proceeds to signature-check everything runnable on the phone all the way down
Sep 26 17:24:02 <Dave> EVERYTHING!?
Sep 26 17:24:05 <nyu> and when TC and DRM meet, since they love each other very much, they have beautiful children handcuffs
Sep 26 17:24:05 <FxChiP> Yes.
Sep 26 17:24:08 <FxChiP> All the app store apps
Sep 26 17:24:12 <FxChiP> even
Sep 26 17:24:15 <FxChiP> And on top of it all
Sep 26 17:24:17 <FxChiP> App Store apps?
Sep 26 17:24:17 <Dave> So, CLEARLY, they did ALL this so that users couldn't "use" the phone.
Sep 26 17:24:20 <FxChiP> Are sandboxed.
Sep 26 17:24:24 <nyu> Dave: never read about tracherous computing before?
Sep 26 17:24:34 <Dave> you mean tentacle rape?
Sep 26 17:24:46 <MnemonicPunk> Hang on. I'll show you first concept art of the Apple product I designed a while ago.
Sep 26 17:24:57 <FxChiP> The iPhone Dev Team actually found a way around this
Sep 26 17:24:57 <Dave> hahaha
Sep 26 17:25:03 <Dave> fxchip, rofl
Sep 26 17:25:07 <Dave> TELL US MORE
Sep 26 17:25:09 <FxChiP> There was actually a bug in the read-only chip
Sep 26 17:25:09 <nyu> they call it "trusted computing" and try to sell it as a security feature as well.  which makes sense to some extent, except you can't get the security without the treacherous bits in
Sep 26 17:25:10 <Dave> >:)
Sep 26 17:25:15 <FxChiP> In that code
Sep 26 17:25:20 <FxChiP> Which Apple *CANNOT* fix
Sep 26 17:25:27 <FxChiP> (Except they have in the latest iPod Touch revision)
Sep 26 17:25:30 <Dave> Hi-larious.
Sep 26 17:25:34 <FxChiP> Because it's a hardware exploit
Sep 26 17:25:37 <Dave> iPod?
Sep 26 17:25:41 <Dave> hardware exploit?
Sep 26 17:25:44 <FxChiP> iPod Touch and iPhone are VERY CLOSELY RELATED
Sep 26 17:25:51 <unknown_lamer> the iPod touch is ... ha
Sep 26 17:25:51 <Dave> what you, plug it into a toaster and it shorts the security circuits?
Sep 26 17:25:54 <FxChiP> no
Sep 26 17:25:57 <nyu> theyre almost the same thing right?
Sep 26 17:25:58 <unknown_lamer> my friend traded her old iPod for a touch and hates it
Sep 26 17:26:03 <FxChiP> Yeah
Sep 26 17:26:04 <Dave> ahaha, oh yeah I heard they're one in the same, just one doesn't have a phone
Sep 26 17:26:10 <unknown_lamer> because she can't use it at all without looking at it (yay lack of tactile feedback)
Sep 26 17:26:11 <FxChiP> iPod Touch is iPhone without speakers, camera, microphone, etc.
Sep 26 17:26:30 <Dave> basically, stripped down?
Sep 26 17:26:31 <unknown_lamer> actually all of my friends with iPods in general *continually* bitch about how iTunes decides that oops I should delete your music now...
Sep 26 17:26:33 <FxChiP> yeah
Sep 26 17:26:37 <unknown_lamer> it's like wow
Sep 26 17:26:40 <Dave> yeah :D
Sep 26 17:26:44 <unknown_lamer> why do you guys ... keep buying this stuff
Sep 26 17:26:46 <FxChiP> So the hardware is related
Sep 26 17:26:47 <nyu> the wow starts now
Sep 26 17:26:48 <unknown_lamer> if it doesn't do what you want
Sep 26 17:26:54 <Dave> itunes has always been fail with respect to its music library synching
Sep 26 17:27:06 <unknown_lamer> my fucking neuros was better
Sep 26 17:27:11 <FxChiP> So the current (2nd-gen) iPod Touch has actually yielded what Apple plans to do next with the iPhone
Sep 26 17:27:15 <FxChiP> One of which was to fix the pwnage bug
Sep 26 17:27:21 <Dave> pwnage?
Sep 26 17:27:25 <unknown_lamer> I really wish that I hadn't broken the pins on the CF connector accidentally...
Sep 26 17:27:29 <Dave> is this that hardware bug you alluded to before?
Sep 26 17:27:32 <FxChiP> yep
Sep 26 17:27:40 <Dave> what does it allow you to do?
Sep 26 17:27:51 <unknown_lamer>  / I still lived with my roommate who could do SMT since he could have fixed it :-\ (yay schematics being published)
Sep 26 17:27:56 <FxChiP> It essentially amounts to a specially-crafted certificate or some dealie that basically breaks/buffer-overflows the read-only chip's code into running unsigned cod
Sep 26 17:27:59 <FxChiP> code*
Sep 26 17:28:10 <Dave> install linux on your iPod?
Sep 26 17:28:14 <FxChiP> Basically, it gets you REALLY LOW LEVEL
Sep 26 17:28:16 <FxChiP> To the hardware
Sep 26 17:28:19 <Dave> yeah
Sep 26 17:28:21 <FxChiP> Which allows you to pre-empt everything else
Sep 26 17:28:26 <FxChiP> And obliterate Apple's chain of trust
Sep 26 17:28:27 <Dave> so you can do those naughty things you wanted to do? ;)
Sep 26 17:28:42 <pogan0> ql
Sep 26 17:28:43 <Dave> so basically you just now need to buy and iphone and play circuit surgery? :D
Sep 26 17:28:50 <FxChiP> Nothing to do with circuit surgery
Sep 26 17:28:53 <MnemonicPunk> Here, that's the Apple product I designed a few weeks ago: http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y125/atlantis_base/iSuck.png
Sep 26 17:29:00 <FxChiP> Like I said, it's the CODE on the READ-ONLY CIHP
Sep 26 17:29:02 <FxChiP> CHIP*
Sep 26 17:29:05 <Dave> ah
Sep 26 17:29:12 <Dave> make new code
Sep 26 17:29:19 <MnemonicPunk> (Effects slightly wrong because it is a photoshop image but I PNGed it with GIMP. ^^)
Sep 26 17:29:28 <nyu> FxChiP: does read-only mean it's a ROM, or that it's digitally signed?
Sep 26 17:29:32 <FxChiP> ROM
Sep 26 17:29:45 <nyu> MnemonicPunk: heh
Sep 26 17:29:46 <FxChiP> It's ROM on a chip and it apparently can't be written to or Apple would have done it by now
Sep 26 17:29:50 <Dave> :D
Sep 26 17:30:00 <FxChiP> Therefore, they effectively have a *hardware exploit*
Sep 26 17:30:11 <Dave> fxchip, my point was just take it out of the iPod touch and replace the one in the iPhone?
Sep 26 17:30:19 <Dave> conceptually, it sounds fun :)
Sep 26 17:30:22 <FxChiP> Which will be fixed next hardware revision for sure, but until then Apple's playing the dirty trick of "iTunes will refuse to recognize a pwned iPhone"
Sep 26 17:30:31 <FxChiP> Take what out?
Sep 26 17:30:36 <Dave> THE FUCKING ROM CHIP
Sep 26 17:30:41 <FxChiP> yarg
Sep 26 17:30:42 <FxChiP> bad idea
Sep 26 17:30:43 <FxChiP> haha
Sep 26 17:30:45 <Dave> duh :P
Sep 26 17:30:48 <nyu> FxChiP: pwned iphone?  how can you even proceed with the normal boot sequence?
Sep 26 17:30:54 <Dave> it'll likely end in megafail, but fun to think about :)
Sep 26 17:31:03 <MnemonicPunk> You know what I don't really understand? Exactly WHY are Apple trying to lock down the iPhone? o.o
Sep 26 17:31:03 <Dave> Fxchip, so is apple going to change that?
Sep 26 17:31:09 <Dave> so they can fucking at least fix their own shit
Sep 26 17:31:12 <FxChiP> Change what? 
Sep 26 17:31:13 <Dave> or be ignorant?
Sep 26 17:31:14 <nyu> MnemonicPunk: I know why
Sep 26 17:31:19 <FxChiP> The hardware bug?
Sep 26 17:31:20 <Dave> the fucking shitty rom chip
Sep 26 17:31:21 <Dave> yes
Sep 26 17:31:24 <FxChiP> Yeah, they've changed it in iPod Touch 2G
Sep 26 17:31:26 <nyu> MnemonicPunk: they live in a dream world, totally disconnected from reality
Sep 26 17:31:30 <Dave> what about the iphone?
Sep 26 17:31:30 <FxChiP> And they will change it in the next rev. of iPhone 3G
Sep 26 17:31:35 <MnemonicPunk> They could just open the iPhone up to developers and kill WinCE and Google Android in one blow. o.o
Sep 26 17:31:35 <Dave> oh i doesn't have it, right
Sep 26 17:31:39 <FxChiP> If the results from the 2G are to be believed
Sep 26 17:31:39 <Dave> Ah, I see
Sep 26 17:31:44 <Dave> right :P
Sep 26 17:31:49 <Dave> iFail
Sep 26 17:31:50 <nyu> MnemonicPunk: things that don't make any fucking sense here are perfectly fine for them
Sep 26 17:31:51 <FxChiP> Honestly
Sep 26 17:32:02 <FxChiP> The reason they're locking down the iPhone so hard is job security, apparently
Sep 26 17:32:08 <MnemonicPunk> Oh yes, right, it's Apple. xD
Sep 26 17:32:13 <nyu> FxChiP: itunes
Sep 26 17:32:13 <FxChiP> Because the more open they get the phone, the closer people are to the unlock that violates their contract with AT&T
Sep 26 17:32:20 <nyu> yeah, that too
Sep 26 17:32:26 <nyu> but itunes mostly
Sep 26 17:32:26 <MnemonicPunk> Job security? Jobs security? Jobs' job security?
Sep 26 17:32:30 <unknown_lamer> FxChiP: and then we'd just get GNUStep working well on the openmoko platform :-)
Sep 26 17:32:47 <nyu> the DRM in itunes needs to be highly secure for RIAA/MPAA to buy it
Sep 26 17:32:57 <FxChiP> That too
Sep 26 17:33:00 <unknown_lamer> the iPhone isn't so different from say ... every Nokia phone
Sep 26 17:33:06 <FxChiP> Speaking of, they updated their hash algorithm in iPod Touch 2.0
Sep 26 17:33:08 <unknown_lamer> I at least cannot flash my 7610 without sending it to Nokia
Sep 26 17:33:10 <FxChiP> Firmware
Sep 26 17:33:30 <unknown_lamer> except I can run unsigned apps thanks to only have s60v2 instead of v3
Sep 26 17:33:33 <FxChiP> Rendering libgpod useless (libgpod will clobber your playlist if you try, and then iTunes has to "restore" it)
Sep 26 17:33:41 <MnemonicPunk> unknown_lamer: Why not? Locked down so tight?
Sep 26 17:33:53 <unknown_lamer> MnemonicPunk: sort of -- you need custom hardware to do it
Sep 26 17:33:58 <unknown_lamer> and then a way to get the firmware image
Sep 26 17:34:04 <MnemonicPunk> Hm.
Sep 26 17:34:16 <MnemonicPunk> Dunno, I never had a mobile where I was unable to flash. o.o
Sep 26 17:34:24 <unknown_lamer> which sucks for me because I'm running an early rev of the software with a wonderful t9 bug that *reboots the phone* sometimes
Sep 26 17:34:53 <unknown_lamer> "hey kristen can I get your number ... thanks [girl walks away] ... fuck my phone restarted trying to type her name in lkjds;f"
Sep 26 17:35:22 <pogan0> ; )
Sep 26 17:35:26 <unknown_lamer> this has happened
Sep 26 17:35:29 <MnemonicPunk> unknown_lamer: When you want to type "raleigh"?
Sep 26 17:35:39 <unknown_lamer> MnemonicPunk: raleigh and kristen are two triggers
Sep 26 17:35:50 <MnemonicPunk> That sucks.
Sep 26 17:35:59 <unknown_lamer> it seems to be at random
Sep 26 17:36:09 <unknown_lamer> luckily another bug of the t9 dictionary is that it resets all user added entries at reboot
Sep 26 17:36:31 <MnemonicPunk> My Siemens M55 had some weird reboot bugs as well but I could easily ignore them as they would only occur every 2-3 weeks.
Sep 26 17:37:39 <MnemonicPunk> Well... I don't think I have to comment on reboot bugs with my WinCE phone, right?
Sep 26 17:37:39 <Dave> :D
Sep 26 17:38:06 <GNUtoo> lindi-, hello, how do i stop the framework?
Sep 26 17:38:17 <GNUtoo> so my AT command would work...
Sep 26 17:38:59 <Dave> heh, job security :p
Sep 26 17:39:00 <MnemonicPunk> ps ax | grep framework | xargs -I '{}' killall {}
Sep 26 17:39:00 <MnemonicPunk> ;P
Sep 26 17:39:22 <GNUtoo> i've done  /etc/init.d/frameworkd stop but i still have errors
Sep 26 17:39:24 <tobyS> n'amt
Sep 26 17:39:26 <MnemonicPunk> (dunno if that works. xD)
Sep 26 17:39:40 <Dave> fxchip: fucking apple.
Sep 26 17:41:19 <lindi-> GNUtoo: run "cli-framework" and use gsm.DebugCommand("AT\r\n")
Sep 26 17:41:23 <lindi-> GNUtoo: no need to stop framework
Sep 26 17:41:58 <GNUtoo> lindi-, ok thanks
Sep 26 17:42:52 <zash> MnemonicPunk: i think "pkill framework" would do the same as that
Sep 26 17:43:19 <Dave> killall -1 zash
Sep 26 17:43:19 <zash> if there is pkill
Sep 26 17:43:24 <Dave> haha, right :P
Sep 26 17:43:32 <zash> pkill -u dave
Sep 26 17:43:34 <Dave> :D
Sep 26 17:44:07 <Dave> touch leinir
Sep 26 17:44:21 <GNUtoo> i'll do it after eating...
Sep 26 17:44:49 <FxChiP> Dave, no, fucking T-Mobile, fucking Android, and the fucking G1.
Sep 26 17:44:57 <FxChiP> On top of your "fucking Apple."
Sep 26 17:45:02 <Dave> hahahaha
Sep 26 17:45:07 <Dave> THRICED
Sep 26 17:45:09 <FxChiP> Because
Sep 26 17:45:10 <FxChiP> See
Sep 26 17:45:14 <Dave> Elaborate.
Sep 26 17:45:15 <FxChiP> Android is supposed to be this
Sep 26 17:45:19 <FxChiP> Big, open platform
Sep 26 17:45:20 <leinir> *murrs* ;)
Sep 26 17:45:24 <Dave> :D
Sep 26 17:45:28 <FxChiP> And yet
Sep 26 17:45:28 * Dave pets leinir
Sep 26 17:45:28 <zash> "open"
Sep 26 17:45:35 <Dave> fxchip, and yet it's all closed, afterall
Sep 26 17:45:36 <FxChiP> zash, getting to that
Sep 26 17:45:41 * leinir enjoys the pettings :)
Sep 26 17:45:42 <Dave> yeah let fxchip continue :D
Sep 26 17:45:47 <FxChiP> Yet the developers are forced to write in a Java/"Java-like" code
Sep 26 17:45:48 <Dave> leinir, don't we always ;)
Sep 26 17:45:52 <zash> FxChiP: :D
Sep 26 17:45:53 <FxChiP> That doesn't allow anyone to touch the bare metal of the code
Sep 26 17:45:56 <leinir> *giggles* Absolutely :)
Sep 26 17:45:59 <unknown_lamer> is android really anything other than a new j2me but apache licensed?
Sep 26 17:46:01 <Dave> :D
Sep 26 17:46:02 <FxChiP> Or of the phone
Sep 26 17:46:07 <unknown_lamer> it seems *less* free than j2me now
Sep 26 17:46:16 <Dave> fxchip, continue :)
Sep 26 17:46:26 <MnemonicPunk> unknown_lamer: Android is more or less a distro.
Sep 26 17:46:34 <FxChiP> It's supposed to be like all Apache-licensed, but they're really not quite as open as they'd like you to believe. Hell, there's probably not even a way to replace their kernel or anything of the sort -- the platform doesn't even support native code.
Sep 26 17:46:47 <FxChiP> Android is not a distro, Android is an abomination that happens to use Linux as a kernel
Sep 26 17:46:58 <unknown_lamer> but all of the fanboys love it
Sep 26 17:47:00 <Dave> sounds like qtopia almost in that respect ;)
Sep 26 17:47:02 <MnemonicPunk> But the media doesn't see it as "linux distro" but as "the new mobile phone revolution from Google that will fight against Apple!"
Sep 26 17:47:02 <unknown_lamer> GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOGLE
Sep 26 17:47:03 <Dave> haha
Sep 26 17:47:09 <Dave> fucking fans
Sep 26 17:47:12 <FxChiP> I'm also really bitter at them because I JUST got off T-Mobile
Sep 26 17:47:18 <FxChiP> And I'm chained to AT&T via iPHone
Sep 26 17:47:22 <leinir> Dave: What, it's all GPL? ;)
Sep 26 17:47:23 <Dave> MnemonicPunk -_-
Sep 26 17:47:26 <FxChiP> And T-Mobile is going to end up being the better service now
Sep 26 17:47:35 <FxChiP> (The G1's specs kick the iPhone's all over the place)
Sep 26 17:47:41 <unknown_lamer> t-mobile always was the better service
Sep 26 17:47:44 * Dave touches leinir some more
Sep 26 17:47:53 * leinir murrs some more :)
Sep 26 17:47:53 <Dave> fxchip, hahaaha
Sep 26 17:47:55 <unknown_lamer> excepting 3G
Sep 26 17:47:57 <FxChiP> Yeah, but they're using odd frequencies
Sep 26 17:48:07 <Dave> fxchip, could it possibly get any worse?
Sep 26 17:48:08 <unknown_lamer> not for old fashioned GSM/EDGE
Sep 26 17:48:10 <MnemonicPunk> Huh? Odd frequencies?
Sep 26 17:48:17 <FxChiP> Which means that GTA04, if it's supposed to work with the 3G of all carriers, will have to be able to use a whole shitload of frequencies just for 3G
Sep 26 17:48:21 <MnemonicPunk> The G1 specifically? Or T-Mobile?
Sep 26 17:48:27 <FxChiP> T-Mobile
Sep 26 17:48:36 <FxChiP> They use a different frequency for 3G than AT&T 
Sep 26 17:48:36 <leinir> blah
Sep 26 17:48:38 <FxChiP> And Sprint
Sep 26 17:48:39 <leinir> 3G--
Sep 26 17:48:44 <leinir> Just go directly to 4G ;)
Sep 26 17:48:53 <Dave> I bet we'll have 3 modems in the gta4 :P
Sep 26 17:48:54 <Dave> haha
Sep 26 17:48:56 <Dave> leinir, huhu
Sep 26 17:48:57 <FxChiP> 4G isn't possible yet I don't think. If it is, we don't have it out here
Sep 26 17:48:59 <Dave> you got it!
Sep 26 17:49:07 <Dave> wiiiiiiiimaaaaaaaaaaax
Sep 26 17:49:14 <Dave> it's starting here
Sep 26 17:49:24 <MnemonicPunk> lol
Sep 26 17:49:26 <Dave> vewy vewy shawtly
Sep 26 17:49:34 <FxChiP> hmm
Sep 26 17:49:41 <MnemonicPunk> And the GTA5 will have a built-in Wii? ;p
Sep 26 17:49:50 <Dave> fuck that
Sep 26 17:50:01 <Dave> hopefully the Gta05 will have a working phone!
Sep 26 17:50:02 <FxChiP> Heh -- the GTA05 will be usable as a Wii remote :)
Sep 26 17:50:11 <Bish> hey gais
Sep 26 17:50:16 <FxChiP> er
Sep 26 17:50:16 <fredrin> GTA5 will come with guns and hookers 
Sep 26 17:50:25 <FxChiP> last I heard, FreeRunner is a working phone a lot of the time
Sep 26 17:50:30 <Bish> fredrin: fuck yeah , 
Sep 26 17:50:32 <FxChiP> Especially if Qtopia is used
Sep 26 17:50:45 <FxChiP> or am I wrong there?
Sep 26 17:50:46 <Dave> it still sucks, apparently
Sep 26 17:50:49 <Dave> and is riddled with bugs
Sep 26 17:50:54 <Dave> affecting all aspects of the device
Sep 26 17:51:00 <Dave> except gps now :P
Sep 26 17:51:01 <FxChiP> hardware or software?
Sep 26 17:51:04 <Bish> FxChiP: no .. qtopia is quite usable, but.. its shit :P
Sep 26 17:51:24 <Dave> most hardware problems were either all acknowledged and redesigned, or worked around on the currently models
Sep 26 17:51:34 <Dave> one or two items I believe still elude us, but it's good.
Sep 26 17:51:38 <Dave> so mostly all kernel crap
Sep 26 17:51:41 <unknown_lamer> I think just the gsm buzz?
Sep 26 17:51:41 <leinir> Bish: Define "shit" :)
Sep 26 17:51:49 <Dave> or lack of the appropriate support
Sep 26 17:51:55 * Dave pokes leinir
Sep 26 17:51:57 <Bish> leinir: ... i just dont like C++, qt(opia) 
Sep 26 17:51:59 <unknown_lamer> which on -devel seemed to be fixed by biasing the micbias from another source elsewhere on the board
Sep 26 17:52:06 <Dave> Bish :D
Sep 26 17:52:10 <unknown_lamer> I think that was fixable ... via a small piece of wire
Sep 26 17:52:18 <leinir> Bish: Fair enough, that's up to you :)
Sep 26 17:52:18 <Bish> Dave: whats so funny bout that :D?
Sep 26 17:52:26 <Dave> I agree :p
Sep 26 17:52:34 <Dave> to an extent
Sep 26 17:52:38 <Bish> Dave: ...nonono :) u have to agree
Sep 26 17:52:43 <unknown_lamer> Bish: smoke!
Sep 26 17:52:52 <Bish> unknown_lamer: smoke?
Sep 26 17:52:54 <unknown_lamer> automagic bindings for kde/qt for any language
Sep 26 17:52:58 <unknown_lamer> thanks to the Qt MOP
Sep 26 17:53:13 <unknown_lamer> I doubt it would tkae much work to make it run over the Qtopia headers instead of normal Qt
Sep 26 17:53:15 * Dave installs his software on leinir's phone
Sep 26 17:53:32 <Bish> yeah
Sep 26 17:53:36 <Bish> qt C bindings xD
Sep 26 17:53:37 <Bish> uck yeah
Sep 26 17:53:56 <Dave> :P
Sep 26 17:53:58 <Dave> icky
Sep 26 17:54:20 <MnemonicPunk> Does anyone know if the Zaurus has a built-in keyboard?
Sep 26 17:54:33 <Dave> built-in? physical keyboard?
Sep 26 17:54:35 <Tig|_> Zaurus,  yes
Sep 26 17:54:37 <Dave> (tactile)
Sep 26 17:54:39 <MnemonicPunk> Damn. xD
Sep 26 17:54:44 <Tig|_> all of them iirc
Sep 26 17:54:44 <Dave> that's a good thing
Sep 26 17:54:51 <Dave> better than the shitmoko
Sep 26 17:54:55 <Dave> or failapple
Sep 26 17:55:01 <Bish> Someone has exp in C & edje?
Sep 26 17:55:07 * Dave hides
Sep 26 17:55:07 <Bish> or a good site to start?
Sep 26 17:55:12 <Tig|_> MnemonicPunk: keyboard or thumbboard 
Sep 26 17:55:34 <MnemonicPunk> It IS good, yes. xD But I'm downloading a Zaurus image and... if it has a keyboard, I still have to activate some onscreen keyboard. xD
Sep 26 17:55:44 <Dave> ROFL
Sep 26 17:55:47 <Dave> wouldn't that be great?
Sep 26 17:55:58 <MnemonicPunk> Hm?
Sep 26 17:56:00 <Dave> You have to CALL apple to "activate your keyboard" after purchasing it.
Sep 26 17:56:05 <MnemonicPunk> lol
Sep 26 17:56:11 <Dave> I could see that :P
Sep 26 17:56:11 <MnemonicPunk> Nooo.
Sep 26 17:56:14 <Dave> haha
Sep 26 17:56:14 <FxChiP> ...
Sep 26 17:56:21 <Dave> fxchip :)
Sep 26 17:56:33 <Dave> Wouldn't it be funny if the keyboard didn't pass it's security check or something?
Sep 26 17:56:38 <Tig|_> Dave: nah you would have to take it to a "genius" in mac church 
Sep 26 17:56:39 <Dave> man, good stuff, that apple...
Sep 26 17:56:43 <MnemonicPunk> I mean I have to activate it so I can type at all. Because my phone has no physical keyboard.
Sep 26 17:56:45 <Dave> uggh
Sep 26 17:56:54 <Dave> MnemonicPunk, yes, we gathered that :)
Sep 26 17:56:59 <MnemonicPunk> Okay. =)
Sep 26 17:57:24 <Dave> We're too preoccupied at the moment with hating several different corporations and providers :)
Sep 26 17:57:30 <MnemonicPunk> Okay.
Sep 26 17:57:31 <Dave> Speaking of which...
Sep 26 17:57:35 <Dave> Fxchip, tell me more :)
Sep 26 17:57:41 <FxChiP> About?
Sep 26 17:57:43 <Dave> I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Sep 26 17:57:50 <Dave> :)
Sep 26 17:57:51 <FxChiP> lulz
Sep 26 17:58:01 <Dave> Though seriously, I'd like to hear more :P
Sep 26 17:58:31 <Dave> your dislike and loathing of the aforementioned companies, and their products.
Sep 26 17:58:44 <Dave> Let the hate flow THROUGH you...
Sep 26 17:58:47 <FxChiP> I don't dislike or loathe T-Mobile. I looove T-Mobile.
Sep 26 17:58:47 <Dave> >:)
Sep 26 17:58:51 <Dave> You do?
Sep 26 17:58:54 <FxChiP> I just wish I could have stayed with them.
Sep 26 17:58:55 <FxChiP> Hehe
Sep 26 17:59:02 <Dave> Where do you live? The mid-west?
Sep 26 17:59:05 <FxChiP> I was dumb enough to want the iPhone
Sep 26 17:59:11 <Dave> haha, aww
Sep 26 17:59:13 <FxChiP> Back when I HAD T-Mobile, I lived in Pennsylvania
Sep 26 17:59:18 <Dave> so now apple has YOU by the balls? :\
Sep 26 17:59:25 <FxChiP> Unfortunately
Sep 26 17:59:26 <Dave> fucking shitty.
Sep 26 17:59:28 <FxChiP> Yeah
Sep 26 17:59:34 <Dave> fucking AT&T
Sep 26 17:59:54 <Dave> goddamn teaming up with apple for the gangrape
Sep 26 18:00:10 <Dave> anyhoo, evdo ftw
Sep 26 18:00:28 <FxChiP> It is an extreme irritation that Apple footbulleted themselves that way
Sep 26 18:00:37 <Dave> heh
Sep 26 18:00:58 <FxChiP> "Hey, let's take our phone worth a SHITLOAD of money to consumers, and let's LOCK OURSELVES DOWN TO ONE COMPANY"
Sep 26 18:01:00 <Dave> sellouts
Sep 26 18:01:11 <Dave> yeah
Sep 26 18:01:23 <Dave> you'd think they'd make multitudes MORE revenue, if they opened it up a bit
Sep 26 18:01:30 <FxChiP> I maintain that had Apple not pursued exclusivity they'd have made a lot more money than AT&T was paying htem
Sep 26 18:01:31 <FxChiP> them*
Sep 26 18:01:40 <FxChiP> (And AT&T HAD to have been paying them a LOT for exclusivity!)
Sep 26 18:01:45 <Dave> though you can still unlock the iphone...
Sep 26 18:01:47 <Dave> right?
Sep 26 18:01:55 <FxChiP> Earlier models capable only of EDGE, yes.
Sep 26 18:02:01 <Dave> hrm
Sep 26 18:02:05 <FxChiP> iPhone 3G, no. You have to buy it from a foreign country
Sep 26 18:02:10 <Dave> rigt
Sep 26 18:02:23 <Dave> a few of my friends that were visiting from japan were showing me their cdma iphones :P
Sep 26 18:02:57 <Dave> anyhoo, yeah, apple.
Sep 26 18:02:58 <Dave> Man
Sep 26 18:03:08 <Dave> and to think they had themselves a smart business plan.
Sep 26 18:03:11 <FxChiP> Indeed.
Sep 26 18:03:11 <Dave> hehe
Sep 26 18:03:29 <Dave> I wish they'd fail, in a way
Sep 26 18:03:39 <Dave> then they'd have to rethink things, and possibly redesign
Sep 26 18:03:55 <FxChiP> psh
Sep 26 18:04:00 <FxChiP> I wish someone would crack their RSA private key
Sep 26 18:04:05 <Dave> Totally ignoring the fact that if they ever got it in their heads to fucking hire some real materials engineers, their products might not be garbage.
Sep 26 18:04:08 <Dave> haha
Sep 26 18:04:14 <FxChiP> Because that would be the ultimate
Sep 26 18:04:25 <Dave> it'd only take, what, a hundred years?
Sep 26 18:04:36 <FxChiP> probably
Sep 26 18:04:40 <Dave> :)
Sep 26 18:04:50 <Dave> and then they'd just change it
Sep 26 18:04:50 <FxChiP> I wish there were a mathematical way of doing it, but
Sep 26 18:04:56 <FxChiP> well
Sep 26 18:04:57 <FxChiP> see
Sep 26 18:05:01 <FxChiP> that's where things get complicated
Sep 26 18:05:12 <FxChiP> Due to the nature of Apple's Chain o' Trust...
Sep 26 18:05:20 <FxChiP> ... the public key is hardwired into the phone.
Sep 26 18:05:21 <Dave> sounds like more of distrust, to me
Sep 26 18:05:30 <Dave> ~_~
Sep 26 18:05:31 <apt> STOP DOING THAT!
Sep 26 18:05:58 <FxChiP> So if someone cracks Apple's current private key, every device that uses the corresponding public key is open
Sep 26 18:06:06 <Dave> yep
Sep 26 18:06:19 <Dave> it'd be deliciously grand to be able to deal a crippling blow to them, eh? ;)
Sep 26 18:07:04 <Dave> anyoo
Sep 26 18:07:12 <Dave> someone install openmoko on their ipod already
Sep 26 18:07:46 <Dave> oh man, but security circuits? ... I'm still laughing from that :)
Sep 26 18:07:54 <Dave> Thanks for the bit of enlightenment, fxchip ;)
Sep 26 18:08:46 <FxChiP> yeah
Sep 26 18:09:19 <Dave> It's always vindicating to know I've been on the "right" side. :)
Sep 26 18:10:16 <Dave> Meanwhile, I have to hit up some old games, and see if I can't leverage the people who made them for the source code.
Sep 26 18:10:30 <Dave> timing algorithms are near-impossible to infer
Sep 26 18:11:38 <wurp2|working> FxChiP: I think it's vastly more likely that the private key would leak than be cracked.  Accepted pub/priv key cryptography methods are extremely secure.
Sep 26 18:12:15 <Dave> WURP
Sep 26 18:12:46 <Dave> Come, join our hate fest :)
Sep 26 18:14:37 <robtaylor> wurp2|working: unless you happen to work at GCHQ or similar ;)
Sep 26 18:14:42 <wurp2|working> What are we hating today?
Sep 26 18:15:29 <wurp2|working> robtaylor: You think so?  Unless they have some 2048 bit quantum computer or something I'd think it's still safe
Sep 26 18:15:57 <wurp2|working> I thought the time-to-crack on those things were measured in centuries or millenia of all currenct computing power on earth churning on it
Sep 26 18:16:54 <MnemonicPunk> Does anyone know this? When I dont want a script from rc.d to run, can I just delete it? Or will that cause file-not-found errors?
Sep 26 18:17:26 <wurp2|working> MnemonicPunk: rc.d.<some number>?
Sep 26 18:17:44 <wurp2|working> MnemonicPunk: Those are usually links to an /etc/init.d file, and you can just delete them
Sep 26 18:18:07 <MnemonicPunk> Okay. =)
Sep 26 18:23:46 <Dave> wurp2|helping
Sep 26 18:23:54 <harnir> hello
Sep 26 18:23:57 <Dave> Greetings
Sep 26 18:24:02 <Tig|_> 'nings
Sep 26 18:24:10 <harnir> Good morning, Dave.
Sep 26 18:32:29 <aaronw> has anyone followed the GPRS howto at http://freeyourphone.de/portal_v1/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=295?
Sep 26 18:47:19 <lindi-> aaronw: it uses frameworkd but seems to do a lot of unnecesary things
Sep 26 18:47:54 <aaronw> lindi-: are there better instructions out there?
Sep 26 18:48:32 <lindi-> aaronw: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPRS_FSO
Sep 26 18:48:49 <lindi-> aaronw: look to the bottom of the page for "gprs-on.sh"
Sep 26 18:49:31 <aaronw> lindi-: ah, ok, thanks.  so you just use a terminal to turn gprs on?
Sep 26 18:49:42 <lindi-> aaronw: i do at the moment yes
Sep 26 18:49:54 <lindi-> aaronw: but i use terminal for almost everything at the moment
Sep 26 18:50:06 <aaronw> lindi-: heh, yeah.  hopefully not dialing?
Sep 26 18:50:09 <lindi-> i prefer to get things work before starting to think about UIs :)
Sep 26 18:50:22 <lindi-> aaronw: well, zhone is graphical ui for dialing
Sep 26 18:50:56 <aaronw> lindi-: yes, i think openmoko could have benefited from some of that thinking from the beginning.
Sep 26 18:51:29 <aaronw> thanks for the tip -- bbl
Sep 26 18:57:08 <lindi-> aaronw: maybe
Sep 26 18:59:04 * Bish feels alone
Sep 26 18:59:24 <Dave> Zilla!
Sep 26 18:59:28 * Dave consoles Bish
Sep 26 18:59:33 <Zilla> Hi Dave \
Sep 26 18:59:37 <Bish> :/
Sep 26 18:59:47 <Bish> even edje_editor doesnt wat to talk with me
Sep 26 18:59:57 <Bish> HEY FUCK IT WORX
Sep 26 18:59:57 <Bish> brb
Sep 26 19:00:22 <Zorkman> something new?
Sep 26 19:00:39 <MnemonicPunk> What works? o.o
Sep 26 19:00:55 <Zilla> Eey Zorkman 
Sep 26 19:01:19 <Zorkman> lloµ
Sep 26 19:01:48 * Zorkman has only 234 new mails, all hail the mailinglist :)
Sep 26 19:02:44 <Dave> :D
Sep 26 19:02:48 <Dave> \o/
Sep 26 19:03:01 <Zilla> you should make a mailadress dedicated too the mailinglist ;)
Sep 26 19:03:08 <Dave> YES
Sep 26 19:03:08 <Zorkman> i did :p
Sep 26 19:03:10 <Dave> I have one :P
Sep 26 19:03:11 <Dave> hahaha
Sep 26 19:03:12 <Dave> :D
Sep 26 19:03:16 <Dave> smart zilla
Sep 26 19:04:37 <Bish> MnemonicPunk: edje_editor
Sep 26 19:05:00 <MnemonicPunk> What's that?
Sep 26 19:08:25 <Dave> It sounds horrible, from the way Bish is describing his struggles with it :D
Sep 26 19:08:51 <Bish> MnemonicPunk: an editor of edje files
Sep 26 19:08:58 <Bish> s/of/for
Sep 26 19:09:14 * Bish still feels alone
Sep 26 19:09:21 <Dave> :[
Sep 26 19:10:39 <ieatlint> unfortunately edje_editor has bugs, lacks full support for all of the edje features, and produces edj files 10x the size of identical layouts written manually
Sep 26 19:11:30 <Dave> LINT
Sep 26 19:11:40 <ieatlint> hey dave
Sep 26 19:11:46 <Dave> ieatlint, that sounds totally scary.
Sep 26 19:11:47 <Zorkman> lintworm :)
Sep 26 19:11:57 <Dave> it's like windows on doxygen, written in java
Sep 26 19:12:01 <Dave> hahaha, wow.
Sep 26 19:13:17 <ieatlint> hey Zorkman 
Sep 26 19:13:35 <ieatlint> ok, and i just got an important call from my lawyer, so i'm off
Sep 26 19:13:44 <Zorkman> how is the buss-time-)table program comming along?
Sep 26 19:14:43 <ieatlint> uh, it's in a working state
Sep 26 19:15:06 <ieatlint> but there is no working UI for the phone (the computer's UI has issues on the phone)
Sep 26 19:15:35 * FilipLinux4BE wonders if ieatlint is going straight to jail ;-)
Sep 26 19:15:42 <ieatlint> i spent about 2 hours yesterday writing one in edje, and am about 90% done with the UI, then i just need to create it
Sep 26 19:15:52 <ieatlint> heh
Sep 26 19:15:55 <ieatlint> probate court
Sep 26 19:15:58 <ieatlint> anyway, i'm off
Sep 26 19:16:02 <Dave> :D
Sep 26 19:16:34 <Dave> what a badass ;)
Sep 26 19:17:39 * Tig|_ reads up
Sep 26 19:18:04 <Tig|_> has ieatlint made a decent UI for FSO or have I misread things?
Sep 26 19:20:01 <Zorkman>  i opkg upgraded FSO and now it boots and shows the ying-yang loading screen and then it just shows "om-gta02 login: _"
Sep 26 19:20:07 <Dave> you have misread
Sep 26 19:22:29 <Tig|_> ah what has he done then?
Sep 26 19:24:28 <Zorkman> anyone know how to solve this?
Sep 26 19:24:29 <Dave> It is beyond your comprehension.
Sep 26 19:24:48 <Dave> Zorkman, that's a bug? I thought you were just complimenting/praising your latest accomplishment :)
Sep 26 19:27:45 <Zorkman> :D
Sep 26 19:31:41 <Dave> ;)
Sep 26 19:33:41 <Tig|_> Dave: there are no such things as bugs,  there are only opportunities for bug reports for one lucky user :) 
Sep 26 19:34:37 <lindi-> yep
Sep 26 19:34:38 <pogan0> my toshiba smartphone is not suported yet by handhelds
Sep 26 19:34:42 <pogan0> linux
Sep 26 19:34:46 <pogan0> ; /
Sep 26 19:35:03 <Dave> uh huh
Sep 26 19:35:21 <Dave> it clearly must not be that smart then :P
Sep 26 19:36:00 <pogan0> bun im not gona like it than 
Sep 26 19:36:10 <pogan0> ;(
Sep 26 19:36:36 <Bish> the options of the edje_editor are quite limited , uh?
Sep 26 19:39:07 <Dave> Howdy Sargun
Sep 26 19:39:31 <Sargun> Dave.
Sep 26 19:40:14 <Dave> Affirmative.
Sep 26 20:00:06 <Zorkman> anybody using FSO ms3 as stable phone?
Sep 26 20:00:17 <Dave> ERROR ERROR
Sep 26 20:00:21 <Dave> THAT DOES NOT COMPUTE
Sep 26 20:00:24 <Zorkman> :)
Sep 26 20:00:34 <Zorkman> *quasi-usable daily phone
Sep 26 20:01:22 <jakob_> Zorkman: fso is not supposed to be a gui or a fully functional distribution to be used on its own
Sep 26 20:01:57 <Zilla> the gta04 will probably have 3g :( just a pitty that gta03 wont support 3g networks :(
Sep 26 20:02:26 <Zilla> for just calling you dont need 3g but internet is al lot faster with it ;)
Sep 26 20:02:40 <Dave> rawr
Sep 26 20:02:57 <Dave> I suppose
Sep 26 20:02:59 <Dave> yes
Sep 26 20:03:12 <Tm_T> it is if it works where you live (;)
Sep 26 20:03:38 <Dave> :P
Sep 26 20:03:43 <Dave> touché
Sep 26 20:03:49 <Zilla> so i can wait till OM supports 3g (hardware wise) or buy an OM now if i want to play with it :)
Sep 26 20:04:08 <Tm_T> Openmoko is not hardware, is it?
Sep 26 20:04:17 <Dave> or somehow get usb drivers working and use an aircard
Sep 26 20:04:25 <Dave> Tm_T, no
Sep 26 20:04:36 <Tm_T> I thought so
Sep 26 20:04:44 <Zilla> gta02 is OM hardware ;)
Sep 26 20:05:00 <Zilla> you can use that aircard in a laptop too :)
Sep 26 20:05:00 <Tm_T> is it?
Sep 26 20:05:35 <Dave> yep
Sep 26 20:05:39 <Zilla> but if you buy an aircard.... (usb one) you have to say that you cant put the sim card in a phone./.... but what if the phone suports usb-modems ?
Sep 26 20:05:47 <Wonka> I have used the GPRS of my other cellphone via bluetooth...
Sep 26 20:05:58 <Wonka> (3G SIM problem..)
Sep 26 20:06:11 <Zilla> yeah.... how about the 3g-sim compatibility
Sep 26 20:06:12 <Zilla> ?
Sep 26 20:06:29 <Zilla> looking up train information works great on gprs (non 3g) too :D
Sep 26 20:06:36 <harnir> anybody knows what font is used in the NEO logo on the phone?
Sep 26 20:06:37 <Dave> heh
Sep 26 20:06:54 <Zilla> and ssh login for my server :D
Sep 26 20:06:54 <Dave> steal it from their website!
Sep 26 20:07:17 <Zilla> defenately no tohomaMS font :)
Sep 26 20:10:23 <lesouvage_> I can login in to my freerunner, I changed /etc/resolv.conf can ping to the outside internet via the wlan connection but if I run the installer and do "update" nothing seems to happen. What should be my next step?
Sep 26 20:10:44 <Zorkman> lesouvage_: you need to do an upgrade after your update
Sep 26 20:11:04 <lesouvage_> Zorkman: over ssh via usb?
Sep 26 20:11:08 <Zorkman> yes
Sep 26 20:11:13 <lesouvage_> OK
Sep 26 20:11:20 <Zorkman> opkg update && opkg upgrade
Sep 26 20:13:15 <lesouvage_> I see "collected errors:  * could not obtain administrive lock
Sep 26 20:15:02 <Dave> lesouvage_: killall packagekitd
Sep 26 20:16:02 <Bish> lesouvage_: youve been assasinated
Sep 26 20:16:32 <Tig|_> Dave: I think I need to set a bot up ;)
Sep 26 20:18:04 <lesouvage_> I'm afraid that with the launching of the device to a larger user group a lot of this "newbie" questions will be asked. With a bot you just have to answer them once.
Sep 26 20:19:44 <harnir> vectorized FR, what do you think? http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9612/rect4774jg6.png
Sep 26 20:21:51 <Bish> harnir: nice hit 
Sep 26 20:21:58 <Bish> s/hit/shot
Sep 26 20:22:33 <Zorkman> doesn't "apm" work on FSO?
Sep 26 20:22:44 <Zorkman> what is the equivalent to check battery?
Sep 26 20:25:35 <izzyb> Is there a way to troubleshoot the phone portion of the freerunner?
Sep 26 20:26:08 <izzyb> I'm unable to receive calls, and sending calls results in an immediate disconnection.  I don't think it even tried dialing.
Sep 26 20:26:52 <izzyb> I'm currently using qtopia, but have similar results in om2008.8, om2008.9, and fdom
Sep 26 20:30:37 <Dave> moo
Sep 26 20:32:20 <lesouvage_> I seem to ahve my installer (finally) running. How log does it normally take to install the openmoko browser?
Sep 26 20:32:31 <lesouvage_> log=long
Sep 26 20:35:37 <lesouvage_> the installer is now running for about 5 minutes and packagekitd is using 58% cpu
Sep 26 20:38:52 <lesouvage_> done! no i can browse! (i hope)
Sep 26 20:54:11 <izzyb> According to this --> http://bieberphoto.com/canadia/index.php/2008/07/openmoko-neo-freerunner-review/
Sep 26 20:54:23 <lesouvage_> Every time my screen turns black and it seems like the device turns of.When I press the power button most of the times the screen comes back within a second but sometimes it stays back until it reboots. 
Sep 26 20:54:24 <izzyb> there is a known issue with some sim cards not working properly
Sep 26 20:54:49 <izzyb> the link provided in the article didn't have details anyone know what he is talking about?
Sep 26 20:55:01 <izzyb> or how to tell which sim cards have problems?
Sep 26 20:55:10 <wurp2|working> lesouvage_: It sounds as if your device is suspending.  Suspend/resume have been problematic.
Sep 26 20:58:01 <lesouvage_> wurp2: I hope it will be solved in the near futere
Sep 26 20:59:17 <zipo> hello how font ins use to neo 
Sep 26 21:00:07 <Zorkman> anybody: ui'm using fso ms3 and I've 'lost" the drop-down bar (the bar which displays the time and that you can press to close a window)
Sep 26 21:00:18 <Zorkman> is there a way to get it back?
Sep 26 21:13:13 <evolux> I don't see all applications in the "menu" on 2008.09. Does that perhaps have something to do with the categories? What is the "menu" application by the way?
Sep 26 21:13:34 <Zorkman> evolux: yes it has to do with the categories
Sep 26 21:13:39 <Zorkman> or with the icons
Sep 26 21:15:42 <lesouvage_> the keyboard is kind of crazy, it is actually unusable for normal input.
Sep 26 21:16:45 <evolux> Zorkman: how can i tell this application to show all categories?
Sep 26 21:18:07 <Zorkman> evolux: I don't know
Sep 26 21:22:53 <evolux> do i configure it in /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu?
Sep 26 21:28:05 <Dave> u
Sep 26 21:35:57 <izzyb> FYI, for anyone having problems making or receiving calls, there are issues reported with some SIM cards:  -->http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FreeRunner_Hardware_Issues#Some_SIMs_Don.27t_Work
Sep 26 21:36:15 <izzyb> I'm surprised nobody mentioned that in all the posts I've made here
Sep 26 21:36:56 <izzyb> As it turns out, both sim cards I have here are the 3040 serious known to have problems...
Sep 26 21:37:29 <danwink> im trying to opkg install mofi_0.02_armv4t.ipk  and its saying cannot obtain administrative lock
Sep 26 21:37:48 <dolf1074> danwik: pkill packagekit
Sep 26 21:38:54 <danwink> worked. Thanks dolf1074!
Sep 26 21:39:14 <ceda> izzyb: since your surprised, I wouldn't be surprised if you're from the US and expects everyone to be awake when you are
Sep 26 21:39:35 * ceda has had a bad week, time to sleep
Sep 26 21:51:23 <izzyb> ceda, sorry to disappoint you, but I'm a polite Canadian!  Just goes to show that you shouldn't assume.  I was just trying to make sure more people were aware of the issue so others may be pointed in the right direction. :)
Sep 26 21:57:38 <Zilla> bye all
Sep 26 22:23:01 <Zorkman> where can i find illume-config-illume?
Sep 26 22:23:04 <Zorkman> i want the spanner back
Sep 26 22:23:17 <Zorkman> it can't find it in testing or in unstable
Sep 26 22:26:22 <danwink> anyone here use mofi?
Sep 26 22:26:54 <Zorkman> i used it a long time ago
Sep 26 22:27:11 <Zorkman> worked fine for free AP's and WPA AP's didn't test it for other encryptions
Sep 26 22:27:16 * MnemonicPunk is building a small but versatile Ubuntu image. =)
Sep 26 22:37:24 <danwink> for some reason mofi is crashing every time i click connect
Sep 26 22:37:31 <danwink> im rebooting right now
Sep 26 22:39:26 <MnemonicPunk> Does anyone know if Ubuntu has the typical mobile phone apps?
Sep 26 22:39:36 <MnemonicPunk> If it does...
Sep 26 22:39:38 <MnemonicPunk> where? xD
Sep 26 22:39:46 <Zorkman> anybody else having problems with tangogps and Om2008.9?
Sep 26 22:43:56 <DaveLab> Howdy ya'll
Sep 26 22:43:56 <Zorkman> and I can't get the spanner/wrench back on Om2008.9 (I can't find illume-config-illume in testing or in unstable) can somebody point me in the right direction?
Sep 26 22:44:34 <Zorkman> llo Dr Davenstein
Sep 26 22:45:39 <DaveLab> >:)
Sep 26 22:45:54 <DaveLab> Currently in the lab, contemplating the most complete and stable way to backup ten freerunners.
Sep 26 22:46:00 <DaveLab> and I don't want to be here all night, either :P
Sep 26 22:46:58 <ezekiel-v3> dd? 10 rsync processes?
Sep 26 22:47:18 <DaveLab> oy
Sep 26 22:47:19 <ezekiel-v3> tar over ssh?
Sep 26 22:47:24 <viq> Take out SD cards, get new ones? ;)
Sep 26 22:47:28 <DaveLab> haha
Sep 26 22:47:35 <DaveLab> man, I have to backup the entire filesystem as well
Sep 26 22:47:45 <DaveLab> oh shit, I better take out or exclude the sd from this sync D:
Sep 26 22:47:52 <DaveLab> it's got the entire linux kernel tree on it
Sep 26 22:47:56 <DaveLab> :D
Sep 26 22:48:30 <ezekiel-v3> tar -cvvf - / | ssh user@workstation "tar -C /some/backupdir -xf -"
Sep 26 22:49:00 <ezekiel-v3> run that on each freerunner, choose a different backupdir on your workstation for each
Sep 26 22:49:07 <DaveLab> I already do :)
Sep 26 22:49:35 <DaveLab> but won't that be WAY slower?
Sep 26 22:50:17 <ezekiel-v3> slower than what? I was just throwing out ideas under the impression that you needed a quick way to backup before you leave?
Sep 26 22:50:28 <DaveLab> yeah
Sep 26 22:50:33 <DaveLab> dd
Sep 26 22:50:44 <zash> tar cf - / | nc ip randomport + nc -l randomport | tar xfv -
Sep 26 22:50:51 <DaveLab> and your impression was correct :)
Sep 26 22:51:03 <Zorkman> c'mon, somebody has to know where the illume-config and illume-config-illume files are; i need them
Sep 26 22:51:07 <ezekiel-v3> yeah, nc will be faster since you won't do any crypto
Sep 26 22:51:11 <DaveLab> zorkman, ask raster
Sep 26 22:51:18 <DaveLab> zash :)
Sep 26 22:51:24 <zash> ezekiel-v3: or compression
Sep 26 22:52:06 <DaveLab> exactly!
Sep 26 22:53:39 <DaveLab> oh hot damn, it's going WAY faster :)
Sep 26 22:53:43 <Zorkman> doc|home: why are there no illume-config or illume-config-illume files in testing or in unstable? i want your keyboard and acces to the wrench/spanner
Sep 26 22:54:09 <Zorkman> doc|home: i would be very grateful if you knew a way to get them back
Sep 26 22:54:17 <DaveLab> it's slow but a good compromise :)
Sep 26 22:54:22 <DaveLab> zorkman?
Sep 26 22:54:27 <DaveLab> what happened, you deleted them? :)
Sep 26 22:54:28 <zash> if cpu is the weakest part, not using compression and/or encryption is .. good
Sep 26 22:54:46 <Zorkman> DaveLab: no i re-flashed and they are no longer in the repositories
Sep 26 22:54:59 <DaveLab> bah, tar errored out!
Sep 26 22:55:08 <DaveLab> booo
Sep 26 22:55:13 <ezekiel-v3> it probably continued on after the error?
Sep 26 22:55:22 <DaveLab> no, after ten or so it bailed
Sep 26 22:55:23 <ezekiel-v3> i mean, tar waits until the end to tell you about errors
Sep 26 22:55:27 <ezekiel-v3> ahh
Sep 26 22:55:31 <DaveLab> tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now
Sep 26 22:55:34 <DaveLab> :(
Sep 26 22:55:37 <ezekiel-v3> ick
Sep 26 22:55:50 <zash> DaveLab: did you start nc -l first
Sep 26 22:55:50 <DaveLab> It only copied 22M too.
Sep 26 22:55:55 <DaveLab> zash, YES
Sep 26 22:56:00 <DaveLab> how else would my files have arrived? :D
Sep 26 22:56:04 <zash> weird
Sep 26 22:56:11 <zash> tcp shouldnt drop stuff
Sep 26 22:56:27 <DaveLab> on the freerunner I got
Sep 26 22:56:27 <DaveLab> tar: short read
Sep 26 22:56:31 <DaveLab> blah
Sep 26 22:56:43 <zash> weird
Sep 26 22:56:50 <ezekiel-v3> did you exclude /proc ?
Sep 26 22:56:54 <DaveLab> No :D
Sep 26 22:57:00 <ezekiel-v3> or other directories where files might dissapear?
Sep 26 22:57:05 <zash> tar -x perhaps
Sep 26 22:57:06 <zash> no
Sep 26 22:57:07 <zash> hm
Sep 26 22:57:10 <DaveLab> no
Sep 26 22:57:18 <zash> something like --one-filesystem
Sep 26 22:57:25 <DaveLab> o.O
Sep 26 22:57:26 <ezekiel-v3> --exclude=PATTERN
Sep 26 22:57:31 <DaveLab> guh
Sep 26 22:57:34 <zash> --one-file-system
Sep 26 22:57:46 <zash> would exclude /proc and stuff
Sep 26 22:57:49 <zash> probably /dev too
Sep 26 22:58:05 <DaveLab> I'd probably be better off just imaging the fucking moko, if it's less hassle.
Sep 26 22:58:32 <ezekiel-v3> --one-file-system oughtta do it for you, Dave
Sep 26 22:58:33 <zash> you could dd /dev/sdwhatever over the network
Sep 26 22:58:39 <lindi-> i rsync
Sep 26 22:58:41 <DaveLab> right :P
Sep 26 22:58:47 <DaveLab> rsync ftw
Sep 26 22:59:16 <ezekiel-v3> rsync plus hardlinks, ftw
Sep 26 22:59:36 <lindi-> http://iki.fi/lindi/openmoko/backup-neo is really simple rsync+hardlinks
Sep 26 22:59:39 <DaveLab> haha
Sep 26 22:59:43 <DaveLab> lindi, does it work?
Sep 26 22:59:47 <lindi-> yes
Sep 26 22:59:52 <DaveLab> even late? :P
Sep 26 22:59:59 <zash> lindi-: hardlinking oldbackup to newbackup and then rsync -delete-before ?
Sep 26 23:00:16 <lindi-> zash: did you read the script?
Sep 26 23:00:35 <lindi-> DaveLab: late?
Sep 26 23:00:53 <DaveLab> :P
Sep 26 23:00:58 <zash> lindi-: no
Sep 26 23:01:05 <DaveLab> let's find out!
Sep 26 23:01:25 <lindi-> zash: i actually rsync first and hardlink then
Sep 26 23:01:33 <lindi-> zash: but the idea is the same
Sep 26 23:01:45 <DaveLab> eek
Sep 26 23:02:20 <lindi-> zash: that way if rsync is interrupted i don't need to rm -fr or risk having an incomplete copy
Sep 26 23:02:35 <DaveLab> uggh
Sep 26 23:03:30 <lindi-> DaveLab: ?
Sep 26 23:04:34 <DaveLab> nevermind
Sep 26 23:04:39 <DaveLab> I modified your script; thank you.
Sep 26 23:04:47 <DaveLab> It's chugging along across several freerunners :)
Sep 26 23:05:42 <lindi-> no warranty :P
Sep 26 23:05:44 <DaveLab> I hope it backs up everything.
Sep 26 23:05:45 <DaveLab> haha
Sep 26 23:05:46 <DaveLab> I bet :p
Sep 26 23:06:28 <DaveLab> well so far it's making a lot of broken links!
Sep 26 23:06:30 <DaveLab> :D
Sep 26 23:06:36 <DaveLab> but backing all the other data up :)
Sep 26 23:07:05 <DaveLab> darn, I guess I'll have to backup the card data separately
Sep 26 23:07:56 <lindi-> DaveLab: why?
Sep 26 23:08:14 <DaveLab> Why what?
Sep 26 23:09:46 <lindi-> DaveLab: why don't you backup the SD card at the same time?
Sep 26 23:09:54 <DaveLab> oh I see!
Sep 26 23:09:56 <DaveLab> It is
Sep 26 23:10:01 <DaveLab> It's just a huge linky mess!
Sep 26 23:10:05 <DaveLab> Link soup :p
Sep 26 23:10:19 <DaveLab> spaghetti links
Sep 26 23:10:25 <DaveLab> Mmm... now I have an urge to use lync
Sep 26 23:10:26 <DaveLab> lynx
Sep 26 23:10:34 <DaveLab> also troll the debian bug list :)
Sep 26 23:10:36 <DaveLab> while waiting
Sep 26 23:10:44 <DaveLab> point me in the right direction, lindi?
Sep 26 23:10:54 <lindi-> hmm?
Sep 26 23:14:26 <DaveLab> I still have no idea where it's backing up the mmc data to.
Sep 26 23:15:52 <lindi-> DaveLab: probably nowhere
Sep 26 23:16:00 <lindi-> DaveLab: "-x" means it won't cross filesystem boundaries
Sep 26 23:16:23 <DaveLab> oh yeah, boohiss
Sep 26 23:16:32 <DaveLab> crap
Sep 26 23:16:36 <lindi-> DaveLab: instead of 192.168.0.202:/  you want 192.168.0.202:"/ /media/mmc" or something
Sep 26 23:16:46 <DaveLab> yeah, I know
Sep 26 23:16:57 <DaveLab> that's why I was saying I'd have to do it separately, before :P
Sep 26 23:17:18 <DaveLab> Well, it's already copied 400M of something
Sep 26 23:18:05 <DaveLab> Now it just seems like it's wasting my time :)
Sep 26 23:18:56 <lindi-> you can always continue where it left off
Sep 26 23:31:01 <MnemonicPunk> Anyone tried Android yet?
Sep 26 23:31:28 <mwester> If you can point me to a download location for a Treo 650, or a FR, I'll be happy to try it.
Sep 26 23:32:25 <MnemonicPunk> http://it029000.massey.ac.nz/vogue/android-new.zip
Sep 26 23:32:25 <MnemonicPunk> It's in there, you just have to adjust the initrd for yourself =)
Sep 26 23:32:46 <MnemonicPunk> (Android uses some strange initrd... -.-)
Sep 26 23:35:59 <Zorkman> MnemonicPunk: it runs on the FR?
Sep 26 23:37:08 <MnemonicPunk> No idea. But if normal Linux does, it should run there as well. o.O
Sep 26 23:37:22 <MnemonicPunk> Android is just a normal Linux with a funky filesystem.
Sep 26 23:37:27 <mwester> MnemonicPunk:  That's for an HTC -- doesn't run on a Treo, nor on a FR.
Sep 26 23:37:33 <Zorkman> i'd think you would need to recompile it for amrv4
Sep 26 23:37:36 <Zorkman> *arm
Sep 26 23:37:38 <MnemonicPunk> Ah.
Sep 26 23:37:39 <mwester> At the very least
Sep 26 23:37:41 <MnemonicPunk> FR is v4?
Sep 26 23:37:50 <mwester> Then you'd need to deal with the display hardware
Sep 26 23:37:57 <mwester> The serial port/GSM issues
Sep 26 23:38:06 <mwester> battery, power, USB, wifi, etc.
Sep 26 23:38:18 <MnemonicPunk> I can take most images from other distros and run them.
Sep 26 23:38:19 <MnemonicPunk> o.o
Sep 26 23:38:36 <MnemonicPunk> Touchscreen reacts strange sometimes though.
Sep 26 23:38:45 <mwester> MnemonicPunk:  on i386 hardware.
Sep 26 23:38:51 <mwester> Not on anything else!
Sep 26 23:39:05 <MnemonicPunk> No on my HTC xD
Sep 26 23:39:22 <MnemonicPunk> It boots zubuntu, for example.
Sep 26 23:39:24 <MnemonicPunk> o.ô
Sep 26 23:39:36 <mwester> Really?  You can run a FR kernel and rootfs on the HTC?
Sep 26 23:39:42 <MnemonicPunk> Not the kernel.
Sep 26 23:39:50 <MnemonicPunk> But initrd and rootfs yes.
Sep 26 23:40:06 <MnemonicPunk> Doesn't have to work out of the box.
Sep 26 23:40:07 <mwester> And what functionality does the initrd and rootfs provide, and where do you get those?
Sep 26 23:40:31 <MnemonicPunk> initrd is an artificial rootfs that is mounted before the actual rootfs.
Sep 26 23:41:03 <MnemonicPunk> For example if your device needs to load drivers before it can mount your actual root.
Sep 26 23:41:09 <mwester> My point being that source code is portable, compiled source code is less so, and when you get to an application, even less so, and by the time you get to an entire suite of applications (like a phone), there's really no portability at the binary level at all.
Sep 26 23:41:22 <mwester> MnemonicPunk:  I know what initfs does.
Sep 26 23:41:22 <MnemonicPunk> That's true, yeh.
Sep 26 23:41:46 <MnemonicPunk> I'm not saying it will all run right on the spot.
Sep 26 23:41:51 <MnemonicPunk> I know it doesn't.
Sep 26 23:41:52 <mwester> What I'm asking you is does your rootfs and initfs provide phone applications that work on HTCs as well as other devices?  Or is it just the bare minimum like busybox?
Sep 26 23:42:11 <MnemonicPunk> Hm.
Sep 26 23:42:16 <MnemonicPunk> How do I put that?
Sep 26 23:42:24 <MnemonicPunk> Graphical environments boot.
Sep 26 23:42:38 <MnemonicPunk> But the phone applications all use their specific API so they won't.
Sep 26 23:42:47 <mwester> Building a bare base rootfs is relatively simple; getting Android to run on the FR would be a huge effort.
Sep 26 23:43:25 <MnemonicPunk> And the touchscreen is touchy (haha -.-) in my case.
Sep 26 23:44:08 <mwester> I think the community should undertake to do so, but nobody should think it is a trivial undertaking.  I think asking Trolltech how much time it took to make Qtopia run as well as it does on the FR would be a good guage as to the effort to make Android boot and run in a basic way.
Sep 26 23:44:32 <MnemonicPunk> I'm not sure.
Sep 26 23:44:46 <MnemonicPunk> Android is *supposed* to be really portable.
Sep 26 23:44:52 <mwester> Really?
Sep 26 23:45:08 <MnemonicPunk> Yeh. o.o
Sep 26 23:45:09 <Zorkman> is it? never read something that stated that...
Sep 26 23:45:34 <mwester> Hmm...  If its so portable how can we handle the parts of Android that are closed-source?
Sep 26 23:45:53 <Zorkman> we use a crowbar?
Sep 26 23:45:56 <MnemonicPunk> lol
Sep 26 23:46:05 <MnemonicPunk> It's still Google.
Sep 26 23:46:10 <Tig|_> mwester: cash
Sep 26 23:46:10 <MnemonicPunk> So you never know.
Sep 26 23:46:11 <MnemonicPunk> =(
Sep 26 23:47:01 <MnemonicPunk> What I'm thinking...
Sep 26 23:47:13 <MnemonicPunk> If it is possible to take openmoko and run it on the HTC...
Sep 26 23:47:27 <mwester> Nah, standard answer applies -- write HUGE abstraction layer over your device so that the binary blog from Google thinks it sees what it wants to see -- then when your device goes to market, you need to either suffer with poor performance compared to the native Google phone, or suffer with higher hardware costs to make your product on-par. :)  Either way, google wins!
Sep 26 23:47:34 <MnemonicPunk> Or take Angstrom and run it on the FR... (Dunno if that is possible yet xD)
Sep 26 23:47:48 <MnemonicPunk> Then even Android should be able to run those.
Sep 26 23:47:54 <mwester> Angstrom is what is running on the FR.
Sep 26 23:48:29 <mwester> But there's nothing in Angstrom that abstracts the Calypso GSM -- so that part has to be written.
Sep 26 23:48:37 <Tig|_> mwester:  saw a good talk by Chris De Bona  from google at LRL and from what he was saying they like to make sure any technology that they use does not bite them in the ass, which is why they are iffy about where code comes from and the licences 
Sep 26 23:48:40 <MnemonicPunk> Yeh.
Sep 26 23:48:56 <MnemonicPunk> lol
Sep 26 23:49:27 <MnemonicPunk> Why not opensource it all then? No assbiting to be done after that. xD
Sep 26 23:49:30 <mwester> Chris sounds like he's either in Marketing, or he's studied what the Google Marketing department wants him to say.
Sep 26 23:49:41 <mwester> Spiiiiiiiin!
Sep 26 23:50:02 <Tig|_> mwester: actually is he is a straight up guy
Sep 26 23:51:17 <mwester> Never met him; I'll take your word for it, but even straight-up guys have to say what's best for their employer, lest they end up unemployed and unemployable.
Sep 26 23:51:39 <viq> Any recommendations for a SIP client for debian-on-FR ?
Sep 26 23:51:59 <Tig|_> MnemonicPunk: prolly because they have licensed closed code but in a way it can't bite google
Sep 26 23:53:04 <MnemonicPunk> For some reason I just don't really like Android.
Sep 26 23:53:23 <Arhuaco> I thought it would be all open source.
Sep 26 23:53:27 <MnemonicPunk> Did anyone try Vanilla Vogue Linux on FR yet?
Sep 26 23:57:36 <mwester> Actually, I rather appreciate Android, and welcome it in the market -- I personally don't like the model, I don't trust Google, and I really think Java is a terrible language for embedded devices, but that's all technology stuff -- RIM failed, and without Android, Apple would be unthreatened in any way, and Apple is already showing signs of being more Microsoft than even Microsoft.
Sep 26 23:58:12 <MnemonicPunk> True.
Sep 26 23:58:56 <MnemonicPunk> I don't really care about Apple to be honest but I like the fact that android will bring good new stuff to other *nix users on mobile phones as well.
Sep 26 23:59:18 <Tig|_> mwester:  apple have always been more more microsoft that microsoft have ever dared be they just lacked the market share to do it
Sep 26 23:59:27 <MnemonicPunk> lol
Sep 27 00:00:00 <mwester> I guess then I've been blind to it; it's taken the iPhone for me to realize just how closed and proprietary even things like the iPod are.
Sep 27 00:00:03 <Tig|_> MnemonicPunk: android will do fuck all for *nix stuff
Sep 27 00:00:14 <Tig|_> they are the same
Sep 27 00:00:22 <MnemonicPunk> Why do you think that? o.o
Sep 27 00:01:05 <MnemonicPunk> Say what you will about Google (I personally don't like them) biut they almost have a huge impact on any market they enter.
Sep 27 00:01:11 <Tig|_> OSX is built on an OS kernel and freebsd userland but is one of the most controlled environments ever
Sep 27 00:02:27 <MnemonicPunk> They had a few duds, yes, but their success rate is scary.
Sep 27 00:03:25 <MnemonicPunk> And while no one's looking, they're adding GSM tracking to your Google account. ;)
Sep 27 00:03:35 <MnemonicPunk> *GPS
Sep 27 00:03:36 <ieatlint> the java crap of android truly is the biggest issue i have with it
Sep 27 00:03:41 <MnemonicPunk> Well, GSM too, I guess.
Sep 27 00:04:19 <ieatlint> i am hoping, likely in vain, that google will relent on that
Sep 27 00:04:35 <MnemonicPunk> They won't.
Sep 27 00:04:37 <Tig|_> ieatlint: yeah the jave write once oh crap we need to do what to get it to compile?
Sep 27 00:05:08 <ieatlint> huh?
Sep 27 00:05:14 <MnemonicPunk> All their stuff is so tightly tied to the Dalvik VM, they probably even CAN'T kill the Java part before the G1 ships. xD
Sep 27 00:05:23 <ieatlint> you use a java compiler with a special set of libraries...
Sep 27 00:06:17 <ieatlint> well, i preordered one of the g1s... so i'll see
Sep 27 00:07:27 <MnemonicPunk> Heh. ^^
Sep 27 00:07:52 <ieatlint> what i'm impressed with is that android supposedly doesn't support stereo over bluetooth or multitouch (both of which are supported by the hardware)
Sep 27 00:08:00 <MnemonicPunk> I guess the G1 is the reason why Android is still part closed source.
Sep 27 00:08:25 <MnemonicPunk> Google wanted a piece of the "exclusive marketing deal with T-Mobile" pie. ;p
Sep 27 00:08:51 <ieatlint> eh, it also makes companies less nervous about it all
Sep 27 00:09:09 <MnemonicPunk> Sure.
Sep 27 00:09:31 <ieatlint> if they open it up after it's already in the hands of consumers, then the companies can't simply dump the product
Sep 27 00:09:33 <MnemonicPunk> If Google AND T-Mobile trust it, it must be a first-class internet device and a first-class phone. ;)
Sep 27 00:10:04 <ieatlint> i've personally no issues with either company
Sep 27 00:10:19 <ieatlint> i realise the amount of personal data google mines from its users
Sep 27 00:10:21 <mwester> Well, that's why I welcome it to the market -- I think it will make the Om devices more acceptable to all.
Sep 27 00:10:25 <MnemonicPunk> I dislike both, for different reasons. ^^
Sep 27 00:10:42 <ieatlint> but... eh, they don't lie about it, and they've not shown any malign
Sep 27 00:11:16 <MnemonicPunk> Google? They may not lie but they certainly try to trick you into giving more data then you want to.
Sep 27 00:11:46 <Zorkman> trick?
Sep 27 00:11:51 <ieatlint> i don't recall being tricked
Sep 27 00:11:51 <MnemonicPunk> Example:
Sep 27 00:12:01 <MnemonicPunk> The web protocol, you know that?
Sep 27 00:12:16 <ieatlint> ?
Sep 27 00:12:21 <ieatlint> you mean, http?
Sep 27 00:12:24 <MnemonicPunk> No.
Sep 27 00:12:29 <MnemonicPunk> Google Web Protocol
Sep 27 00:12:37 <ieatlint> then no
Sep 27 00:12:38 <zash> google://
Sep 27 00:12:43 <MnemonicPunk> That's there they track anything you do on Google and log that.
Sep 27 00:13:06 <MnemonicPunk> Like: 13:45:11 Search for "openmoko", clicked third result
Sep 27 00:13:15 <ieatlint> uhm, they don't lie about that
Sep 27 00:13:20 <ieatlint> they even show you that data
Sep 27 00:13:20 <zash> can they see which result one clicks on?
Sep 27 00:13:28 <MnemonicPunk> They do show it, yes.
Sep 27 00:13:37 <MnemonicPunk> That's not the problem I had with that feature.
Sep 27 00:13:44 <ieatlint> zash, yes, you load a google url that forwards you to the site when you click on a result
Sep 27 00:14:03 <MnemonicPunk> But it reactivates itself from time to time, even if you explicitly turn it off.
Sep 27 00:14:08 <zash> and they have ads on shitloads of sites
Sep 27 00:14:19 <MnemonicPunk> So...
Sep 27 00:14:21 <ieatlint> MnemonicPunk, then get pissed at your browser for deleting the cookie
Sep 27 00:14:44 <MnemonicPunk> The setting is linked to my Google Account.
Sep 27 00:15:11 <MnemonicPunk> So whenever I'm logged in, it should stop logging.
Sep 27 00:15:22 <MnemonicPunk> But Google even tracks you across several IPs.
Sep 27 00:15:23 <ieatlint> well, i'm entirely aware of how much google tracks me
Sep 27 00:15:39 <ieatlint> what i'm not aware of is how much the government tracks me, and that's what bothers me
Sep 27 00:16:15 * mwester knows just how incompetent the US government is, and doesn't worry about them tracking him.  Instead, he worries about private companies doing that.
Sep 27 00:16:16 <ieatlint> but google knowing i'm a perverted, democratic, linux geek somehow doesn't bother me
Sep 27 00:16:17 <MnemonicPunk> If you don't delete the Google cookie right after an IP change, they relate the IPs.
Sep 27 00:16:42 <ieatlint> mwester, the government is incompetent, but the nsa isn't
Sep 27 00:17:03 <MnemonicPunk> ieatlint: It started scaring me when I visitied Google Groups the first time and it automatically suggested 10 groups that "I might be interested in"
Sep 27 00:17:25 <MnemonicPunk> I recognized for most of them, how they related to my search terms.
Sep 27 00:17:31 <MnemonicPunk> Of the last 4-6 weeks.
Sep 27 00:17:38 * ieatlint shrugs
Sep 27 00:18:01 <ieatlint> i don't care enough... i know they mine massive amounts of data
Sep 27 00:18:11 <roh> well.. if your browser accepts googles cookies, you have js on by default/do not block it AND you are logged in, you make it more than easy for them
Sep 27 00:18:24 <MnemonicPunk> roh: True. =(
Sep 27 00:18:39 <roh> if youre paranoid use http://www.scroogle.org or something like it
Sep 27 00:19:02 <lindi-> over tor :)
Sep 27 00:19:12 <roh> *gg*
Sep 27 00:19:15 <MnemonicPunk> It's not that I'm paranoid. I don't go panicking only because someone tries to gather data.
Sep 27 00:19:30 <MnemonicPunk> But I don't want anyone to know more than he really needs to.
Sep 27 00:19:56 <mwester> I've stopped caring.
Sep 27 00:20:08 <MnemonicPunk> Why does Google have to scrape every single site I visit only because there*s an ad in it?
Sep 27 00:20:13 <mwester> Nothing I do is that unique; I get lost in the large numbers.
Sep 27 00:20:43 <ieatlint> MnemonicPunk, it allows them to better target products and ads
Sep 27 00:20:52 <ieatlint> which makes them a more profitable company
Sep 27 00:21:19 <MnemonicPunk> Sure but they could at least respect my privacy and ask first.
Sep 27 00:21:42 <ieatlint> if you have a google account, they did ask -- you didn't read
Sep 27 00:21:53 <MnemonicPunk> But no, they just set a oookie. In case I already had one, they (again) relate the search data to the browsing data.
Sep 27 00:22:05 <MnemonicPunk> I know, if you have one you accepted it.
Sep 27 00:22:22 <MnemonicPunk> But they even do that if you don't have an account.
Sep 27 00:22:54 <ieatlint> well, perhaps you should go into a local retail store and start yelling at them for not asking if it was ok for their security cameras to record you
Sep 27 00:23:00 <Guest53760> they just don't correlate it to your google account.. true
Sep 27 00:23:21 <CIA-22> openmoko: 03werner * r4672 10/developers/werner/wlan-spi/patches/ (5 files): 
Sep 27 00:23:21 <CIA-22> openmoko: First steps towards getting S3C SPI to work. Still freaks out at higher
Sep 27 00:23:21 <CIA-22> openmoko: clock speeds and interrupt mode is actually the least efficient possible
Sep 27 00:23:21 <CIA-22> openmoko: mode.
Sep 27 00:23:22 <Guest53760> it's just OS-user/browser based
Sep 27 00:23:46 <_Bill_> darn.. someone holds my nick :P
Sep 27 00:23:55 <MnemonicPunk> Nah, the security cameras are not there for selling more stuff. ;) They are to prevent people from stealing it.
Sep 27 00:24:23 <_Bill_> it used to be like this
Sep 27 00:24:35 <ieatlint> ok, but in the end, the concept is to increase income for the ompany
Sep 27 00:24:36 <ieatlint> company
Sep 27 00:24:41 <raster> MnemonicPunk: you use thier products and services
Sep 27 00:24:46 <MnemonicPunk> Yes, that's true.
Sep 27 00:24:49 <MnemonicPunk> ^^
Sep 27 00:24:51 <_Bill_> now they are used to scan what you are browsing most in the store so they can position better in the future
Sep 27 00:24:52 <raster> (the moment you go to google.com... you are using them)
Sep 27 00:25:00 <MnemonicPunk> I know, raster.
Sep 27 00:25:04 <raster> ylu use them to search
Sep 27 00:25:09 <raster> you are free to not do so
Sep 27 00:25:14 <raster> and thus.. not give them any info
Sep 27 00:25:19 <raster> you still have a choice :)
Sep 27 00:25:30 <ieatlint> kinda my point
Sep 27 00:25:32 <MnemonicPunk> Only a partial one though, raster.
Sep 27 00:25:38 <raster> though i'm with mwester. i gave up careing long ago
Sep 27 00:25:43 <ieatlint> you don't want the security cameras to record you, don't go to the store
Sep 27 00:25:44 <_Bill_> same here
Sep 27 00:25:49 <_Bill_> at least to some point
Sep 27 00:25:55 <raster> you are an anonymous number
Sep 27 00:25:59 <raster> a cookie #
Sep 27 00:26:11 <raster> they know that that # goes around doing things
Sep 27 00:26:13 <MnemonicPunk> Or did you ever see a "Warning! This page tracks your reading behaviour and visited websites!" message besides a Google ad?
Sep 27 00:26:17 <raster> they dont necessarily know its YOU
Sep 27 00:26:17 <Zorkman> hello raster, I flashed Om2008.9 and I can't find illume-config and illume-config-illume anywhere (not in stesting, not in unstable) is there a way to get your keyboard and the spanner/wrench?
Sep 27 00:26:30 <_Bill_> i still don't run with the pack to whom a google office is the only true meka and who share their most intimate details over orkut or blogspot
Sep 27 00:26:37 <ieatlint> although it would be awesome if your guest pass to google had the cookie # on it
Sep 27 00:26:42 <raster> Zorkman:  no idea. i dotn use/work on etc. 2008.09
Sep 27 00:26:49 <MnemonicPunk> lol
Sep 27 00:26:58 <raster> _Bill_: same.
Sep 27 00:27:10 <Zorkman> raster: thanks thought it was worth a try :)
Sep 27 00:27:11 <raster> i like MY dataq with ME
Sep 27 00:27:12 <ieatlint> "Oh, hey, it's you 02F9AB84! You manage to find that sex store you were searching for on Google Maps yesterday?"
Sep 27 00:27:16 <raster> on MY hdd's
Sep 27 00:27:18 <_Bill_> raster: yeah
Sep 27 00:27:24 <raster> not somewhere in the cloud
Sep 27 00:27:28 <MnemonicPunk> "Don't ya go losing that or we'll garbage collect you!"
Sep 27 00:27:35 <_Bill_> i own my personal data and they better have a damn good reason for gathering it
Sep 27 00:28:05 <raster> if all they do is watch waht i do as i fumble about usin their FREE servics
Sep 27 00:28:06 <raster> fine
Sep 27 00:28:12 <raster> i dont care
Sep 27 00:28:16 <MnemonicPunk> But after so much negativity about Google from my side... I like them, from a technical standpoint. They've had some good ideas and some good plans well executed.
Sep 27 00:28:18 <_Bill_> yup
Sep 27 00:28:23 <ieatlint> _Bill_, they have a d-day set, when they will import 50 million chinese people who've they been training to take over your identity
Sep 27 00:28:31 <_Bill_> lol
Sep 27 00:28:34 <raster> but fucked if they are going to get all the detailed content of my private data or business data
Sep 27 00:28:37 <MnemonicPunk> I just don't want them snooping deeper into my private stuff then I knowingly allow them.
Sep 27 00:28:52 <raster> imho anyone using google docs is not doign themselves (or their business) a favor.
Sep 27 00:28:56 <_Bill_> yeah.. how did userfriendly say about it... their moto is "Don't be evil, not don't get rich"
Sep 27 00:29:00 <raster> (from a confidentiality point of view)
Sep 27 00:29:30 <_Bill_> raster: i do agree.. but it's so difficult to make that undestandable to security illiterate
Sep 27 00:29:34 <MnemonicPunk> I'd never use gmail for anything I consider confidential. o.o
Sep 27 00:29:50 <raster> _Bill_: find an analogy
Sep 27 00:29:52 <raster> eg
Sep 27 00:30:18 <_Bill_> and i specifically use security-illiterate there.. as there are so many computer-literate persons who don't give a shit about their privacy
Sep 27 00:30:35 <_Bill_> raster: analogy is not hard to find indeed...
Sep 27 00:30:55 <MnemonicPunk> "Imagine you don't keep your diary at home but have some carry it for you, day for day. You'll have it accessible, anytime, anywhere... But the certain someone can read it whenever he wants to as well!"
Sep 27 00:31:28 <MnemonicPunk> That's how I explained it to my mum. xD
Sep 27 00:31:29 <_Bill_> MnemonicPunk: point well made
Sep 27 00:31:44 <raster> "imagine all your contracts, bills, personal diary entries - you left them on the train because u ran out of room at home, and you always take gyhe same ttrain to and from work... so whenvr you are there you can pick up your diary and add some entries... but you leave it there. the owners of the train can happiyl read your diaries, inspect your contracts and whatever any time they like as their own the locked box on that train."
Sep 27 00:31:47 <raster> or somthing...
Sep 27 00:32:10 <raster> _Bill_: well security illiterate != give a shit
Sep 27 00:32:15 <raster> u may be 100% literate
Sep 27 00:32:17 <raster> and know all about it
Sep 27 00:32:20 <raster> and still not give a shit
Sep 27 00:32:21 <raster> :)
Sep 27 00:32:25 <MnemonicPunk> Yeh.
Sep 27 00:32:39 <_Bill_> well.. i kinda excluded straight-on stupid :P
Sep 27 00:32:56 <MnemonicPunk> "Why should I stop using the big blue E? It plays the internet! I don't need another one!"
Sep 27 00:33:00 <mwester> Yet, consider that once educated, that same person who now is paranoid about checking certificates and such when they give out their credit card # online will go to a restaraunt, and hand the PHYSICAL card (!) to some guy they don't know, who takes it back somewhere else in the back where they cannot see them -- and they are not worried about that.  Go figure.
Sep 27 00:33:02 <ieatlint> yeah, ignorant people can be just as paranoid
Sep 27 00:33:14 <ieatlint> i used to be a cashier... and i once upset a paranoid customer
Sep 27 00:33:29 <ieatlint> who was buying something with a credit card, and the store had those touchscreens to sign on..
Sep 27 00:33:55 <ieatlint> he refused to sign electronically, because "then they'd have a digital copy of my signature and could make as many copies as they wanted"
Sep 27 00:34:09 <MnemonicPunk> Well... the chance for someone to steal your card at the place he works at is much lower than on the net, but it is certainly not zero. xD
Sep 27 00:34:14 <mwester> I worked for a manager once; he wrote "Ask to see ID" by the signature area on all his credit cards; he said that very few places ever did ask him for his ID.
Sep 27 00:34:26 <ieatlint> i told him they could just scan the paper reciept he signed and make just as many copies.... NOT a good idea to tell those paranoid people
Sep 27 00:34:35 <_Bill_> mwester: wonders of post-socialist countries (estonia here).. actually.. you use smartcards and they bring the terminal to your table and you enter your pin in your table so that noone can truly observe it and get a check right there
Sep 27 00:35:04 <mwester> I think that's a great idea.
Sep 27 00:35:39 <ieatlint> dpeneds on the encryption scheme for the wireless device ;)
Sep 27 00:35:53 <_Bill_> analog signatures are anyway too easy to fake these days
Sep 27 00:36:00 <_Bill_> ieatlint: GSM
Sep 27 00:36:10 <_Bill_> it's a GSM card-terminal
Sep 27 00:36:30 <_Bill_> not wifi, not wimax.. not anything a consumer can get their hands on
Sep 27 00:36:42 <MnemonicPunk> Wait.
Sep 27 00:36:46 <ieatlint> interesting
Sep 27 00:36:52 <MnemonicPunk> GSM = GSM as in mobiles?
Sep 27 00:36:55 <_Bill_> yeah
Sep 27 00:37:03 <raster> mwester: eyah.. then again i logn ago accept3ed that credit cas are just inherently insecure crap. i rely on the "deny p-ayement" fallback for feeling secure
Sep 27 00:37:04 <raster> :)
Sep 27 00:37:06 <_Bill_> GPRS is the comm-channel
Sep 27 00:37:07 <ieatlint> but i meant more of the type of encryption scheme -- eg, like just an ssl session
Sep 27 00:37:25 <MnemonicPunk> Do they think "noone can program a GSM device to intercept this anyways"?
Sep 27 00:37:54 * mwester agrees with raster --- and uses multiple credit cards to limit exposure online and while travelling.
Sep 27 00:38:05 <raster> yup
Sep 27 00:38:13 <raster> at least rememebr tokeep recipts
Sep 27 00:38:17 <_Bill_> MnemonicPunk: GSM transmissions are inherently encrypted anyways.. true... with some effort they are interceptable these days.. but still.. way much more effort that the profot
Sep 27 00:38:21 <_Bill_> profit
Sep 27 00:38:27 <raster> and check your card statements every month
Sep 27 00:38:31 <raster> and keeep them
Sep 27 00:38:37 <raster> anythign on ther that doesnt match a recipt
Sep 27 00:38:39 <raster> flag it
Sep 27 00:38:40 <_Bill_> raster: ebanking for that
Sep 27 00:38:40 <raster> call it in
Sep 27 00:38:44 <raster> let the bank deal with it
Sep 27 00:38:57 <raster> _Bill_: i still prefer papr here
Sep 27 00:39:00 <MnemonicPunk> I don't have any experience with that, but I heard only a few days ago that cracking GSM communications is only a matter of minutes.
Sep 27 00:39:00 <raster> basically for lgal reasons
Sep 27 00:39:01 <_Bill_> hehe
Sep 27 00:39:12 <mwester> _Bill_ makes a fair point; the investment to intercept the GSM credit card info is far too expensive, considering that you can just as well get that same data elsewhere much easier and cheaper.  Bribe a shopkeeper.
Sep 27 00:39:14 <raster> (ie walking to court with a papr recipt/bill is much.. easier)
Sep 27 00:39:15 <_Bill_> raster: you think your analog signature is more safe=
Sep 27 00:39:29 <raster> _Bill_:  hell no!
Sep 27 00:39:37 <raster> _Bill_:  have u SEEN my signature?
Sep 27 00:39:42 <raster> any signature can be forged
Sep 27 00:39:48 <_Bill_> raster: nope... but i get the idea
Sep 27 00:39:49 <raster> just stare at it for a bit and try
Sep 27 00:39:56 <raster> doesnt matter how complex
Sep 27 00:40:00 <raster> i gave up
Sep 27 00:40:03 <raster> mines' a squigle
Sep 27 00:40:04 <MnemonicPunk> In some countries you can simply search the trash bin for receipts. ;p
Sep 27 00:40:10 <raster> almost a "x"
Sep 27 00:40:11 <ieatlint> raster, you want funny, just start signing reciepts "void"
Sep 27 00:40:24 <ieatlint> odds are, they won't even notice
Sep 27 00:40:25 <MnemonicPunk> lol
Sep 27 00:40:31 <raster> ieatlint: i know
Sep 27 00:40:50 <_Bill_> btw.. you also get a receipt in electronic transaction
Sep 27 00:40:50 <raster> i'm so happy when once in a while a store clerk actually looks at my card's signature and the one i wrote down
Sep 27 00:40:53 <raster> to see if they match
Sep 27 00:40:57 <_Bill_> so it's just as arguable
Sep 27 00:40:59 <MnemonicPunk> function PayWaiter(float fExpectedValue) { return null; }
Sep 27 00:41:15 <Wonka> MnemonicPunk: about GSM encrption: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A5/1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A5/2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A5/3
Sep 27 00:41:18 <raster> tho as such i'ma cash-guy
Sep 27 00:41:21 <raster> i pay in cash
Sep 27 00:41:29 <_Bill_> i've signed my reciepts as "XXX"
Sep 27 00:41:35 <raster> that way i avoid undue exposure to the inherent insecurity of cards
Sep 27 00:41:38 <_Bill_> noone ever noticed
Sep 27 00:41:56 <_Bill_> Wonka: yeah.. i know..
Sep 27 00:42:15 <ieatlint> i never give out my SSN, and that's about the biggest security step i make
Sep 27 00:42:18 <_Bill_> being former Tele2 Estonias network&billing engineer
Sep 27 00:42:20 <ieatlint> i use plastic constnatly
Sep 27 00:42:21 <raster> i belive in privacy mostly
Sep 27 00:42:35 <raster> but man i cant wait for the day where u ned a dna sample to confimr your identiy
Sep 27 00:42:47 <MnemonicPunk> Luckily we don't have real SSNs here, yet. But our government is working on it. >_>
Sep 27 00:42:58 <raster> or an iris scan
Sep 27 00:43:02 <raster> and tfingerprint
Sep 27 00:43:10 <raster> at least something REALLY hard to forge
Sep 27 00:43:15 <_Bill_> iris scan is forgeable
Sep 27 00:43:25 <_Bill_> thind "Demolition Man" :P
Sep 27 00:43:28 <_Bill_> think
Sep 27 00:43:28 <lpotter> or navel lint anylasis
Sep 27 00:43:29 <ieatlint> depends on the sophistication of the scan
Sep 27 00:43:42 <sicu> raster: you mentioned earlier that you had made your own image file (.summary) ... are they available for download?
Sep 27 00:43:43 <Wonka> raster: like in "Minority Report"?
Sep 27 00:44:00 <_Bill_> rectal scan..i've always been fond of those :P
Sep 27 00:44:06 <Wonka> raster: btw, fingerprints are forgeable at the moment.
Sep 27 00:44:13 <raster> _Bill_:  tghats why i said iris AND finger
Sep 27 00:44:20 <Wonka> raster: ever watch "myth busters"?
Sep 27 00:44:21 <raster> and yes
Sep 27 00:44:25 <raster> so u need more than one
Sep 27 00:44:26 <_Bill_> finger is forgeable even more easily
Sep 27 00:44:31 <_Bill_> i
Sep 27 00:44:32 <ieatlint> not to mention, fingerprints are unreliable sources of data
Sep 27 00:44:32 <raster> difficulty goes u[p
Sep 27 00:44:35 <raster> i'd prefer dna
Sep 27 00:44:41 <_Bill_> i've tried on my thinkpad
Sep 27 00:44:50 <_Bill_> dna would work
Sep 27 00:44:58 <ieatlint> and i don't mean forgeable -- i mean that certain types of laborers don't really have fingerprintts
Sep 27 00:45:00 <raster> sicu: nup. because of the gpl.
Sep 27 00:45:06 <_Bill_> but still it would be even easier to harvest that a fingerprint
Sep 27 00:45:15 <raster> gpl makes it infeasible to do
Sep 27 00:45:16 <sicu> raster: ahh .. sux :/
Sep 27 00:45:17 <ieatlint> i used to know someone who did sheetmetal work... tore up his hands  so much, he simply had no fingerprints
Sep 27 00:45:37 <ieatlint> plus, all those amputees... :P
Sep 27 00:45:47 <raster> _Bill_: i wouldnt get rid of pin #'s
Sep 27 00:45:48 <_Bill_> ieatlint: rectal scans
Sep 27 00:46:01 <raster> _Bill_: but i'd take iris scan or fingerprint over signature any day
Sep 27 00:46:02 <sicu> wtf is a rectal scan
Sep 27 00:46:07 <MnemonicPunk> ieatlint: That's cool. Probably could have caused lots of buffer underruns on their high-security servers with that. xD
Sep 27 00:46:08 <ieatlint> lol
Sep 27 00:46:16 <Wonka> when we use dna for ID, i'll wait for the first retrovirus to disable our ID systems...
Sep 27 00:46:34 <MnemonicPunk> lol
Sep 27 00:46:37 <_Bill_> sicu: that's when someone stucks a 3d scanner up your ass and scans for your rectal patterns
Sep 27 00:46:54 <_Bill_> sicu: these are unique aswell.. or so it has ben told
Sep 27 00:47:00 <MnemonicPunk> lol
Sep 27 00:47:14 <lpotter> I refer the navel lint scan
Sep 27 00:47:21 <ieatlint> i question just how second hand that info is bill :P
Sep 27 00:47:22 <_Bill_> US Customs do that for years already....
Sep 27 00:47:35 <sicu> _Bill_: so that's what they were doing at my last job interview ... i thought they were just being friendly
Sep 27 00:47:36 <_Bill_> altho they usually say that they search for narcotics
Sep 27 00:47:50 <MnemonicPunk> lol
Sep 27 00:48:29 <_Bill_> damn. i
Sep 27 00:48:35 <MnemonicPunk> And then someone uses that data to model Goatse 2.0
Sep 27 00:48:38 <_Bill_> 'm runnung out of wine here
Sep 27 00:48:49 <_Bill_> MnemonicPunk: don't go there
Sep 27 00:48:54 <MnemonicPunk> _x
Sep 27 00:48:58 <MnemonicPunk> :x
Sep 27 00:49:37 <_Bill_> anyway.. all security is imaginary
Sep 27 00:49:53 <CIA-22> openmoko: 03werner * r4673 10/developers/werner/ahrt/host/tmc/lib/ (crc.py scope.py): 
Sep 27 00:49:53 <CIA-22> openmoko: Highlight:
Sep 27 00:49:53 <CIA-22> openmoko: - logic analyzer downloads are now about 66% faster
Sep 27 00:49:53 <CIA-22> openmoko: Details:
Sep 27 00:49:53 <CIA-22> openmoko: - lib/crc.py (crc.crc16): didn't even run
Sep 27 00:49:54 <CIA-22> openmoko: - lib/scope.py (rigol_la_data): only add data if it is different from the
Sep 27 00:49:58 <CIA-22> openmoko:  previous sample
Sep 27 00:50:00 <ieatlint> 10minutes until a chipmonk debates a black muslim
Sep 27 00:50:04 <sicu> now see what you did ... Varox left the channel, scarred for life
Sep 27 00:50:26 <_Bill_> however you implement it.. it's fakeable, penetrateable, or otherwise uncomfortable
Sep 27 00:50:27 <johngay> So, who's rushing out for the new G1?
Sep 27 00:50:34 <mwester> And in the middle of all this, Werner is doing real coding work.
Sep 27 00:50:45 <mwester> Get back to work all you!
Sep 27 00:50:50 <_Bill_> mwester: at least someone
Sep 27 00:50:52 <raster> bah!
Sep 27 00:50:55 <raster> work shmork
Sep 27 00:51:09 <MnemonicPunk> Anyone else want an Ubuntu Image? xD
Sep 27 00:51:11 * raster sometimes really despises gpl
Sep 27 00:51:12 <_Bill_> mwester: it's bloody 03:50AM here... no work for me
Sep 27 00:51:17 <sicu> meh, G1 doesnt even have an audio jack
Sep 27 00:51:53 <ieatlint> sicu, so get the damned dongle
Sep 27 00:51:53 <johngay> How's the stack coming along? I've been out of touch for a week.
Sep 27 00:51:59 <mwester> _Bill_:  did you forget that appointment you set up for 8AM tomorrow morning, then? ;)
Sep 27 00:52:36 <_Bill_> mwester: luckily.. i just checked my calendar and it still has no appointments for tomorrow
Sep 27 00:53:00 <_Bill_> first one is on monday...
Sep 27 00:53:40 * mwester notes that it's the end of the fiscal quarter next week, and that his calendar is completely, totally, open. 
Sep 27 00:53:51 * mwester wonders if he should start working on a resume.
Sep 27 00:54:07 <_Bill_> mwester: out of job?
Sep 27 00:54:21 <_Bill_> i'm just off for a vacation in spain..
Sep 27 00:54:26 <KenYoung> I just installed the most recent version of FDOM, and now I have the bug where audio is lost on the dialer app after the device has been suspended.   Does anyone know a fix for that?
Sep 27 00:54:32 <mwester> Not yet.  But if the sales guys don't come up with some business, they'll start laying off staff.
Sep 27 00:54:52 <_Bill_> so i hope i'll find an open wifi in Benalmadena so you guys can find me in a week in tangogps :P
Sep 27 00:54:54 <mwester> I don't expect to be the first to go, but once that happens, it's usually not much fun anymore.
Sep 27 00:55:31 <raster> mwester: where do u slave?
Sep 27 00:56:05 * raster swears
Sep 27 00:56:11 <raster> my memtest86 errors are now gone
Sep 27 00:56:12 <_Bill_> darn.. i should pick up my C coding some day.. it's been years now since i've written a serious line
Sep 27 00:56:12 <raster> wtf...
Sep 27 00:56:12 <mwester> I'm a field tech guy for a software vendor; I cover the midwest US -- which is seriously depressed right now.
Sep 27 00:56:40 <raster> _Bill_:  you should. once u co9nqour c.. the world is your oyster
Sep 27 00:56:52 <raster> mwester:  ooooh.. thats why
Sep 27 00:57:09 <raster> (let me guss - a small vendor?)
Sep 27 00:57:12 <mwester> Yep.  
Sep 27 00:57:13 <raster> guess
Sep 27 00:57:16 <raster> aaah
Sep 27 00:57:17 <_Bill_> raster: i've written my own 3d engine as a python module for a local TV stations weather report sone 4 years ago..
Sep 27 00:57:18 <raster> bugger
Sep 27 00:57:20 <raster> :(
Sep 27 00:57:25 <raster> well just think
Sep 27 00:57:26 <_Bill_> on SDL an OGL
Sep 27 00:57:34 <_Bill_> so i'm no stranger..
Sep 27 00:57:34 <raster> you can throw in a few $1000 to bail out wallstreet
Sep 27 00:57:44 <_Bill_> but that was the last thing i actually wrote
Sep 27 00:57:44 <mwester> heh! 
Sep 27 00:58:05 <raster> _Bill_: do not forsake your c!
Sep 27 00:58:07 <raster> :)
Sep 27 00:58:17 <_Bill_> i still loathe java :P
Sep 27 00:58:26 <johngay> I say let wall street colapse and buy Euro's.
Sep 27 00:58:29 <_Bill_> being a systems guy ;P
Sep 27 00:58:38 <raster> mwester:  just think... its about 4k per taxpayer (adult) in the usa to help wall stret out.
Sep 27 00:58:42 <raster> poor bugger
Sep 27 00:58:47 <raster> they ned some help
Sep 27 00:58:56 <raster> they're in a bit of a squeeze!
Sep 27 00:59:04 <raster> _Bill_:  yay
Sep 27 00:59:07 <_Bill_> us is just tasting their own well grown fruit...
Sep 27 00:59:09 * raster hi-5's _Bill_ 
Sep 27 00:59:19 * _Bill_ bows to raster 
Sep 27 00:59:23 <mwester> raster:  I'm just glad I'm not the guy in our company that handles the financial companies in NY -- not only is he going to pay for this in his taxes, most of his jobs have just dried up or been cancelled.
Sep 27 00:59:39 <johngay> I was up by wall street today, I'm just sorry those windows don't open any more.
Sep 27 01:00:04 <mwester> johngay:  It would be entertaining, but hazardous for the pedestrians if they opened.
Sep 27 01:00:27 <raster> mwester:  :(
Sep 27 01:00:43 <raster> johngay: already ben doping that. i have a significant chunk fo $ in euros.
Sep 27 01:00:59 <_Bill_> hmmh. may i offer a themesong for the occasion: Weather Girls  - It's raining men
Sep 27 01:01:10 * mwester groans.
Sep 27 01:01:22 <raster> hahahahah
Sep 27 01:02:35 <raster> the sucky bit is...
Sep 27 01:02:45 <_Bill_> yeees?
Sep 27 01:02:46 <raster> i thnik that 700b+ bailout is necessary'
Sep 27 01:02:56 <mwester> raster:  curiousity question -- where's Werner based?
Sep 27 01:03:05 * mwester sees commits at odd times...
Sep 27 01:03:37 <raster> mwester:  argentina
Sep 27 01:03:44 <mwester> oh!
Sep 27 01:04:17 <mwester> That would explain it.  I just assumed he was in Europe somewhere...  
Sep 27 01:04:37 <_Bill_> truly multicontinental development
Sep 27 01:04:40 <raster> well he's austrian
Sep 27 01:04:46 <raster> who grewq up in switzerland
Sep 27 01:04:59 <raster> and moved to bunos aires and loves it there
Sep 27 01:05:14 <mwester> That's cool.
Sep 27 01:05:59 <mwester> On other news, I now have an extra Treo 650.
Sep 27 01:06:09 <raster> extra?
Sep 27 01:06:14 <raster> send me one!
Sep 27 01:06:38 <_Bill_> hmh.. i wonder.. if anyone needs an senior systems guy with extensive experience in unix, oracle and storage in wild world outside estonia
Sep 27 01:06:40 <mwester> Nope!  it'll soon be "non-extra" when I get linux on it.
Sep 27 01:07:21 * johngay cues "The Weather Girls"
Sep 27 01:07:25 <raster> mwester: hahaha
Sep 27 01:07:33 <raster> mwester: let me know what u are doing
Sep 27 01:07:37 <raster> i have my eyes set on one too
Sep 27 01:07:47 <raster> i was building a plamt650 image for it last night
Sep 27 01:07:57 <_Bill_> Treo, would it be usable?
Sep 27 01:07:57 <raster> but well.. seems my system has totally fuckd up its rootfs
Sep 27 01:08:01 <raster> and /home too...
Sep 27 01:08:19 <raster> _Bill_:  from the looks if it - yes, except u need to boot from palmos via its cocoboot
Sep 27 01:08:27 <_Bill_> uhh
Sep 27 01:08:29 <raster> no driver for built in flash (tho built in is only 32m)
Sep 27 01:08:38 <raster> and i think audio record is broken
Sep 27 01:08:46 <raster> so phone calls are one-way
Sep 27 01:08:51 <raster> otherwise everything works
Sep 27 01:08:56 <_Bill_> lol.. semi-usable..
Sep 27 01:09:07 <raster> if audio was fixed
Sep 27 01:09:08 <_Bill_> almost as good as gta02 then :P
Sep 27 01:09:09 <raster> fully usable
Sep 27 01:09:14 <raster> =(it seems)
Sep 27 01:09:25 <raster> booting from plamos isnt that bad a deal
Sep 27 01:09:34 <raster> think of plamos as a big fat gui bootloader
Sep 27 01:09:39 <mwester> PalmOS boots really fast.
Sep 27 01:09:50 <raster> mwester: possibly better than uboot :)
Sep 27 01:09:59 <mwester> I was just typing that :D
Sep 27 01:10:09 <_Bill_> and uboot should be lightweight in theory
Sep 27 01:10:29 <raster> aaah... theory
Sep 27 01:10:37 <mwester> uboot got distracted somewhere, had a few drinks, and is now convinced that its an operating system.
Sep 27 01:10:41 <Zorkman> speaking of uboot, does anybody know what they are doing with Qi (or whatever it name is, the bootloader formally known as kboot)
Sep 27 01:10:52 <mwester> qi is growing.
Sep 27 01:11:02 <_Bill_> mwester: it's happened before to opensource projects... think emacs
Sep 27 01:12:03 <mwester> hmmmpph.  But emacs is a better operating system than even linux!  All we need is someone to build hardware that can execute the native clisp code, and linux will be obsolete.
Sep 27 01:12:37 <_Bill_> mwester: yeah.. a goos OS but a darn bad code editor
Sep 27 01:12:58 <mwester> Zorkman:  I think the plan is that qi will be able to be flashed into NAND on the 02.
Sep 27 01:13:18 <_Bill_> you really shouldn't be able to play nethack and check your email *in* you editor
Sep 27 01:13:52 * mwester ignores the criticism of the only proper text editor (and operating system)
Sep 27 01:13:58 <_Bill_> lol...
Sep 27 01:14:33 <_Bill_> it will never grow old.. redhat vs debian vs suse... emacs vs vi.. sendmail vs postfix...
Sep 27 01:18:32 <raster> BOOO
Sep 27 01:18:41 <raster> dopwnload is slooow..
Sep 27 01:18:57 * raster needs himself a new ubuntu iso for rescue...
Sep 27 01:19:03 <_Bill_> get a fatter pipe
Sep 27 01:19:30 * _Bill_ got scared away from debian in 2000 by dselect....
Sep 27 01:20:12 <raster> well i alreayd have 24mb it
Sep 27 01:20:19 <_Bill_> wow
Sep 27 01:20:23 <raster> but my 802.11 isnt keeping up
Sep 27 01:20:43 <_Bill_> i'm still on 8... and estonia is supposed to be a premium IT country
Sep 27 01:21:04 <raster> well this isnt that great
Sep 27 01:21:06 <raster> japanis better
Sep 27 01:21:09 <raster> had 100mbit there
Sep 27 01:21:22 <raster> when i lived in tokyo
Sep 27 01:21:40 <raster> ad 45mbit 5 years ago there.
Sep 27 01:21:47 <raster> so 24 is a downgrad
Sep 27 01:21:49 <_Bill_> well.. sweden has fiber to an apartment deal going to those in Breadbandsbolaget area
Sep 27 01:21:50 <raster> downgrade
Sep 27 01:21:54 * mwester offers raster an antique -- a genuine physical cat-5 cable to fix his wifi problem.
Sep 27 01:21:59 <raster> then again... most of the internet can barewly pull 20mbit
Sep 27 01:22:10 <raster> most of it is 3-5mbit at best
Sep 27 01:22:31 <raster> mwester: yeah... i'd take that... but my desktop already has that
Sep 27 01:22:32 <_Bill_> 3-5 is already evolved parts of the world
Sep 27 01:22:41 <raster> this is laptop that likes to be unwried
Sep 27 01:22:52 <raster> my desktop's hdd is fucked
Sep 27 01:23:02 <_Bill_> i wouln't be surprised to see people getting online with good old v92 or such
Sep 27 01:23:03 * mwester adds another antique - a genuine netgear 5-port switch.
Sep 27 01:23:54 * mwester is prejudiced against wifi; and prefers a physical cable whenever possible.
Sep 27 01:24:03 <raster> mwester: same
Sep 27 01:24:05 <raster> except laptops
Sep 27 01:24:08 <_Bill_> always
Sep 27 01:24:16 <_Bill_> laptops have docks
Sep 27 01:24:21 <raster> mine doesnt
Sep 27 01:24:26 <raster> it just roams around anyway
Sep 27 01:24:30 <raster> from lunge
Sep 27 01:24:34 <raster> to dining tabel
Sep 27 01:24:35 <raster> bed
Sep 27 01:24:36 <raster> etc.
Sep 27 01:24:39 <_Bill_> only when you really-really have to move you downgrade to 802.11
Sep 27 01:27:51 <Zorkman> any qtopia users still awake?
Sep 27 01:28:12 <Zorkman> the modem keeps registerering and unregistering, just like with 2007.2 a month ago
Sep 27 01:28:26 <mwester> Oh goody!  A volunteer!
Sep 27 01:29:10 <mwester> http://moko.mwester.net/   <-- follow the links to the "bouncy rubber calypso" page
Sep 27 01:30:27 <_Bill_> weirdly.. i'm on fdom from the beginning of sept and i get that really seldomly
Sep 27 01:30:47 <slaxxin> meetoo
Sep 27 01:31:14 <raster> _Bill_:  no extra cabls to use
Sep 27 01:31:22 <raster> i HATE cables
Sep 27 01:31:35 <Zorkman> mwester: thanks! I hope i'll have some time free soon to play with the FR and then I will test this and report back
Sep 27 01:32:05 <_Bill_> raster: i generally et the idea so.. no need to explain
Sep 27 01:32:21 <raster> normally i use desktop anyway
Sep 27 01:32:56 <raster> as its got the big kbd, nice mouse attached all the big screens and ltos of ram, disk and cpu to burn
Sep 27 01:33:03 <raster> just i have to rescue it
Sep 27 01:33:08 <raster> something bad (tm) happened
Sep 27 01:33:35 <_Bill_> lol.. happened to me a couple of times
Sep 27 01:34:04 * mwester notes that most of the time something bad (tm) happens to his big 'puters, the something bad (tm) is mwester.
Sep 27 01:34:52 <_Bill_> hehe.. yeah.. last time i killed my big one i installed the alpha kde 4.2 on it :P
Sep 27 01:36:48 <mwester> I needed more space, so I added an external USB drive.  Then one day, I decided to move the external USB drive internal, and keep it on the USB... I misplugged the USB/IDE adaptor, and by the time the ordeal was over, I had one USB/IDE adaptor destroyed, three Western Digital drives that were somehow damaged to where they could no longer ID themselves as drives(!), and one 500Watt power supply.
Sep 27 01:39:22 <_Bill_> wtf.. how the heck did you do that?
Sep 27 01:40:30 <dingman> Following the directions at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPRS, I see that as promised my settings dialog is dead, but the suggested fix doesn't work. Anyone know what I really need to do?
Sep 27 01:41:27 <Zorkman> mwester: do you know the status of the suspend-kills-the-sd?
Sep 27 01:41:40 <mwester> Fixed in latest kernels.
Sep 27 01:42:07 <Zorkman> thanks mwester; due to some renovations i have not had the time to keep up with everything as much as I wanted to
Sep 27 01:42:20 <mwester> _Bill_:  I still don't know how I did it all.  :)  But I am now much more careful.
Sep 27 01:43:06 <_Bill_> mwester: well.. you should be.. that's a quite a harvest even for a seasoned hw guy..
Sep 27 01:43:26 * _Bill_ only has couple of UltraSPARCIII processors on his soul...
Sep 27 02:05:22 <Dave> Hmm
Sep 27 02:05:26 <Dave> Zorkmans
Sep 27 02:35:57 <Zorkman> yes Dave?
Sep 27 02:36:04 <Zorkman> (make it quick, gonna go to bed)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Sep 27 02:59:57 2008