**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Sep 28 02:59:57 2008
Sep 28 03:00:05 <ieatlint> plus there's public transportation so i can get smashed at the bar and stumble home on the bus
Sep 28 03:00:33 <mwester> I was there for a business trip; there was a tiny bungalow for sale across the street.  We placed bets on what it was listed for; I about fell over when we found out that a 2 bedroom, one-floor tiny bungalow with no yard was > half a million.
Sep 28 03:00:50 <mwester> gak!
Sep 28 03:00:53 <ieatlint> yep
Sep 28 03:00:55 <mwester> malik1972:  greetings
Sep 28 03:01:13 <ieatlint> even with the huge drop in real estate value, that bungalow would still be half a million
Sep 28 03:01:17 <sicu> ouch, and i thought norway was bad
Sep 28 03:01:33 <ieatlint> most people rent
Sep 28 03:01:43 <ieatlint> you can rent a place like that for about $2k/mo
Sep 28 03:01:57 <ieatlint> and our beer doesn't cost $10/pint here, unlike norway
Sep 28 03:02:05 <mwester> That's still double the typical montly house payment in the US.
Sep 28 03:02:22 <ieatlint> yeah, but only slightly more than california's typical payment
Sep 28 03:02:54 <mwester> Yeah, I suppose one has to factor in that you don't pay $300/mo in the winter to heat the place either.
Sep 28 03:03:10 <ieatlint> imagine how it is for us... we grow up with houses costing that much, and then learn you can buy like a 3 bedroom house for $100k with a huge yard
Sep 28 03:03:13 <mwester> And your cars don't rust to bits in 5 years from all the road salt.
Sep 28 03:03:13 <ieatlint> we start laughing
Sep 28 03:03:16 <pjz> or, in the case of the SW, $300/mo in AC to cool the place
Sep 28 03:03:43 <sicu> hmmm, i live in a 34 m2 meter flat in oslo with my gf, and we pay $1600/mo
Sep 28 03:03:53 <ieatlint> yeah, almost no where here has AC
Sep 28 03:04:00 <ieatlint> including businesses
Sep 28 03:04:31 <ieatlint> everyone has heaters though... but you're talking lows at about 50f/7c in the winter
Sep 28 03:04:56 <mwester> Bet Oslo needs heat in the winter, though. ;)
Sep 28 03:04:59 <ieatlint> $45/mo for unlimited travel on public transit in the city
Sep 28 03:05:38 * pjz bought a 230ish m2 house for $375k in TX
Sep 28 03:05:41 <slaxxin> my 3.3 acres cost 270.19 per month   with insurance an taxes
Sep 28 03:05:43 <sicu> ohjess, loats of heating ... and el prices are steap :/
Sep 28 03:05:48 <ieatlint> you get used to the prices... and wages are higher here
Sep 28 03:05:49 <slaxxin> 15 years   lol
Sep 28 03:05:54 <ieatlint> minimum wage in SF is $9.6/hour
Sep 28 03:06:08 <ieatlint> (US min wage is like $5.15/hour)
Sep 28 03:07:19 <sicu> hmmm, think we got $2.5/hour working in KeyWest last year
Sep 28 03:07:40 <ieatlint> you want funny... my father bought a house in a city on the san francisco bay -- 4 bedroom, .4acre yard, something like 4k sq feet in 1954
Sep 28 03:07:43 <ieatlint> $24k
Sep 28 03:07:58 <ieatlint> adjusted for infaltion, that's probably about $80k
Sep 28 03:07:58 <sicu> nice =]
Sep 28 03:08:11 <ieatlint> value at the time of his death... $1.2m
Sep 28 03:09:02 <ieatlint> hence, our seniors who didn't buy houses scrounge for cans to pay for their bills
Sep 28 03:09:40 <ieatlint> anyway, i love the weather in sf, the food, the bars, the politics
Sep 28 03:10:21 <sicu> havn't visited sf yet ... will have to go sometime
Sep 28 03:10:38 <ieatlint> we're voting to rename our sewage treatment plant the "George W. Bush Sewage Treatment Plant" in november
Sep 28 03:10:46 <ieatlint> it's expected to pass, hehe
Sep 28 03:12:30 <sicu> must be a crappy old plant getting that kind of treatment ;p
Sep 28 03:13:23 <ieatlint> actually the plant manager released a statement saying that it was a bad idea, as the plant was state of the art and hardly resembled/deserved the shitty image bush gives
Sep 28 03:13:36 <sicu> haha
Sep 28 03:13:38 <ieatlint> he used a kinder word than shitty, but the sentiment was clear
Sep 28 03:17:37 <mwester> It's unfortunate the residents of San Francisco have so little respect for the office of the President.  They don't have to have any for the individual, but they go too far.  Nevertheless, they have the right to free speech -- and so does everyone else, so they shouldn't be so surprised and angry when people make comments about SFO and especially their ridiculous mayor.
Sep 28 03:20:12 <sicu> would that still be Gavin Newsom ... or is there a new mayor now ?
Sep 28 03:20:31 <ieatlint> still newsom
Sep 28 03:20:31 <mwester> There should be a new mayor, but I fear it is still he.
Sep 28 03:20:38 <ieatlint> and respect is earned, not given
Sep 28 03:20:48 <ieatlint> that's my view
Sep 28 03:20:51 <ieatlint> i respect mccain
Sep 28 03:20:57 <ieatlint> i don't support him -- but i do respect him
Sep 28 03:21:12 <mwester> Ok.  But I'm not speaking of individuals.
Sep 28 03:21:19 <mwester> I speak of the position.
Sep 28 03:21:27 <ieatlint> the office of presidency is hardly one of respect
Sep 28 03:21:34 <mwester> Just as one does not refer to the CEO of a company as "hey dude!"
Sep 28 03:21:42 <ieatlint> it's classically been plagued with corruption, partisianship, and pettiness
Sep 28 03:22:08 <ieatlint> perhaps if bush respected california we'd feel differently
Sep 28 03:22:43 * mwester observes the classic stereotypical SF attitude.  Good thing we have room for everyone in the country.
Sep 28 03:22:51 <ieatlint> and our mayor isn't that crazy, but the much publicised immigration crap is -- which was not our mayor's explicit doing
Sep 28 03:23:04 <ieatlint> our board of supervisors are crazier than the mayor
Sep 28 03:23:11 <mwester> Chicago politics is about as corrupt as it gets, but I still say "sir" to policemen here.
Sep 28 03:23:54 <ieatlint> i have personal issues with the word sir, but i refer to officers as officer, and give them a great deal of respect
Sep 28 03:25:31 <mwester> Eh, anyway, it matters not.  In a few months, when a politician trained by the Chicago Political Machine takes office, we'll all find out what happens to the country.  I'm curious.
Sep 28 03:25:47 <mwester> :)
Sep 28 03:25:50 <ieatlint> :)
Sep 28 03:25:55 <ieatlint> i certainly hope so, hehe
Sep 28 03:26:04 <mwester> Yep.  We'll see a new spin on corruption.
Sep 28 03:26:05 <ieatlint> but at least i think mccain won't be afraid of visit california
Sep 28 03:26:24 <ieatlint> it's politics..
Sep 28 03:26:58 <ieatlint> politics will always be a measure of the lesser evil
Sep 28 03:27:07 <ieatlint> and to me, that lesser evil is clear
Sep 28 03:27:09 <mwester> We'll all see that what we thought was corruption in government is like a candle in sunlighigt in comparison.
Sep 28 03:27:58 <mwester> Well, I still leave near Chicago, so I've clearly come to terms with that sort of politics and corruption -- so I'm not too worried; I know what to expect.
Sep 28 03:28:56 <ieatlint> well, my politics are predictably far left, and i'm optimistic about the presidential poll in november
Sep 28 03:29:17 <ieatlint> but i hardly believe obama to be infalible
Sep 28 03:30:25 <ieatlint> still, i'll be happy to see at least one disgusting war end, and the rarely heard word of diplomacy make a sudden appearance after an 8 year abscence
Sep 28 03:32:45 <ieatlint> oh, and you may be surprised at the level of criticism san franciscans will happily give about policians they support
Sep 28 03:33:23 <ieatlint> including our mayor, who i voted for, and i could go on long rants about my issues with his decisions
Sep 28 03:34:25 <mwester> Do your research - - check out how a politician made an entire airport - with planes in the hangars and on the tarmac - vanish overnight.  And got away with it.  And then made the press stop talking about it.   That's the mentorship that taught one of the candidates.  THAT is the type of politics we'll be seeing -- or, rather, we WON'T be seeing. :)  Powerful politics indeed.
Sep 28 03:35:16 <ieatlint> i'll take a guess that's daly?
Sep 28 03:35:23 <mwester> Daley Jr.
Sep 28 03:35:35 <mwester> As masterfull (and more subtle) than his father.
Sep 28 03:36:01 <ieatlint> how about a candidate who openly was racist, and has classically been against the popular opinion of the US public through two wars ... we can all spin things :)
Sep 28 03:36:29 <ieatlint> but just like mccain said, if we pull out of iraq now, we'll have to go back later -- just like vietnam
Sep 28 03:36:54 <mwester> The problem is that people are too frightened to vote independent.  I get accused of throwing my vote away, but I'll not send it to either of the two parties.
Sep 28 03:37:18 <ieatlint> sadly you are throwing your vote away :(
Sep 28 03:37:37 <ieatlint> but i agree that our political system would benefit significantly from a 3rd party, or even a 4th
Sep 28 03:37:42 <mwester> Nope.  I refuse to compromise my principles in order to vote AGAINST someone else.
Sep 28 03:37:53 <ieatlint> coalitions are compatible with our congress, and it'd be great to see such a system
Sep 28 03:38:51 <mwester> I'm throwing my vote away if I am bullied into voting for someone I do not trust, because they tell me that if I do not then a worse evil will happen.  That's a self-perpetuating argument, and I'll have none of it.
Sep 28 03:39:20 <ieatlint> it's a crappy situation, but idealism will only get you so far
Sep 28 03:39:30 <mwester> why are we all here, then?
Sep 28 03:39:42 <mwester> Is it so different to support open software and an open phone?
Sep 28 03:39:54 <mwester> I want choices in both situations.
Sep 28 03:39:57 <ieatlint> it is, to me
Sep 28 03:40:11 <ieatlint> i don't feel obliged to convince others of my beliefs in order to participate
Sep 28 03:40:19 <ieatlint> and that makes a difference to me
Sep 28 03:41:00 <mwester> Not required in politics either -- just as in open source, there are those who "evangalize" and those who do not.
Sep 28 03:41:42 <ieatlint> but how could a person like me participate in a 3rd party candidate's campaign without acting as a local advocate?
Sep 28 03:41:56 <mwester> Vote.  That's all that's required.
Sep 28 03:42:34 <mwester> Nobody should have to wear the funny hats and wave flags.  Just like nobody should have to look like Stallman in order to promote open source ;) !
Sep 28 03:42:38 <ieatlint> eh.. that brings little satisfaction compared to a role of participation
Sep 28 03:42:58 <ieatlint> stallman is scary
Sep 28 03:43:09 <ieatlint> someone needs to tell him it's not a religion
Sep 28 03:43:29 <mwester> That's exactly right!
Sep 28 03:43:33 <sicu> it is for some
Sep 28 03:44:10 <ieatlint> sicu: yeah, stallman, jobs, and apple users
Sep 28 03:44:34 <lpotter> gates
Sep 28 03:44:47 <lpotter> the sun dude
Sep 28 03:45:08 <Gnutoo> by the way stallman doesn't promote open-source but free software...free software focus on freedom and open-source on practical advantages such as reliability and costs
Sep 28 03:45:09 <ieatlint> gates advocates MS, but it doesn't go beyond capitalism methinks
Sep 28 03:45:16 <sicu> apple users are seperate here me thinks ... more like a cult, blind obedience
Sep 28 03:45:19 <ieatlint> the sun dude... maybe, he's borderline
Sep 28 03:45:59 <ieatlint> woz is not part of the cult, happily
Sep 28 03:46:15 <Gnutoo> for instance with freedom you are not spied by the programs owners...you don't have DRM, if there is a bug,someone can fix it etc...
Sep 28 03:46:31 <ieatlint> anyway, if jobs ever anounces the founding of a place called "Jobstown" -- especially if in south america; be afraid
Sep 28 03:46:46 <mwester> Jobs is much to smart for that.
Sep 28 03:47:06 <mwester> He'll just announce "help wanted" adds in a place called "Cupertino" or there-abouts.
Sep 28 03:47:16 <mwester> Wait - hasn't he done that already?
Sep 28 03:47:22 <sicu> apple inc is the new jobstown
Sep 28 03:47:39 <ieatlint> "Help Wanted: Purple Flavoraid Tester"
Sep 28 03:47:46 <sicu> hehe
Sep 28 03:48:29 <lpotter> woz _is_ a cult!
Sep 28 03:48:54 <ieatlint> i've met woz, he's not crazy and he's insanely nice
Sep 28 03:49:09 <mwester> It is rather funny to observe that Applie is just as evil in many ways (like the Apple Store recently) as is Microsoft, but everyone seems to love Apple, and hate Microsoft.
Sep 28 03:50:12 <ieatlint> i have more issues with apple these days
Sep 28 03:50:41 <ieatlint> MS looks/feels like a business... they'll screw you over a dime, sure
Sep 28 03:50:46 <ieatlint> apple is just... crazy
Sep 28 03:50:59 <sicu> that's because it's a trend to hate microsoft, just as it has become a trend to love apple
Sep 28 03:52:27 <ieatlint> maybe linux should develop the motto "come on.. everybody's doing it"
Sep 28 03:53:10 <mwester> heh - it's like someone described a sales rep he met -- he said the guy was an "honest crook".  That's how I feel about Microsoft -- I know they want to empty my wallet, and they know that I know that, and there are few surprises that way.  With apple, I just feel very nervous, as if I missed something in the contract when I bought that iPod, and I'll be screwed in the end in some huge way... but I don't know how.
Sep 28 03:53:48 <ieatlint> "honest crook" -- that's exactly my view of MS
Sep 28 03:55:01 <ieatlint> apple might be the confidence con
Sep 28 03:55:35 <ieatlint> but they seem so nice and cuddily, until suddenly you have to pay $100 for the privelege to write programs for their platform that they can then blacklist at their will
Sep 28 03:57:10 <ieatlint> also they stack the playing field.. when they strictly control what hardware you can run their OS on, it's not a surprise that it's more reliable
Sep 28 03:57:13 <sicu> ieatlint: you almost hit it spot on with that motto ... ppl just need something that feels familiar: http://gallery.eiriks.net/d/3924-2/foxtrot_linux_rewrite.jpg
Sep 28 03:57:32 <ieatlint> i'm in a console right now and can't view images
Sep 28 03:57:53 <sicu> save it for later then :p
Sep 28 04:00:37 <ieatlint> i do have a great story about woz coming home to find me and two other geeks standing on his roof duct taping a 2m antenna to his chimney
Sep 28 04:01:40 <ieatlint> the details left out are him giving permission, and leaving his door unlocked so we could start while he was out :P
Sep 28 04:02:10 <sicu> =]
Sep 28 04:03:14 <ieatlint> (setting up an 802.11a site to site connection to use his t1 for a lan party)
Sep 28 04:05:02 <sicu> the amount of ppl wanting to attend would thrash his T1
Sep 28 04:05:12 <ieatlint> err, was a 802.11 connection, not 802.11a
Sep 28 04:05:50 <ieatlint> most of the people attending didn't know it was his t1... was 2001, he made a cameo appearance, and a sad number of people even recognised him
Sep 28 04:06:01 <sicu> anyaways ... it's 6am and i have to go to work in 2hrs ... :/
Sep 28 04:06:06 <ieatlint> lol
Sep 28 04:06:09 <ieatlint> time to go to sleep?
Sep 28 04:06:10 <ieatlint> :P
Sep 28 04:06:18 <sicu> correct ... gotta get some sleep
Sep 28 04:06:55 <sicu> later .... nn
Sep 28 04:07:30 <ieatlint> cya
Sep 28 04:14:44 <slaxxin> why sometimes the red aux light comes on an sometimes it doesn't?
Sep 28 04:15:00 <slaxxin> 2008.8
Sep 28 04:15:04 <slaxxin>   fdom
Sep 28 04:15:17 <rooly> slaxxin: when charging?
Sep 28 04:15:29 <slaxxin> well
Sep 28 04:15:39 <slaxxin> it charges both ways
Sep 28 04:16:02 <rooly> i've noticed it can take 2 or 3 tries before the light comes on
Sep 28 04:16:16 <slaxxin> with no light it doesnt shoe a charge indicator   
Sep 28 04:16:49 <dns53> i think it's still charging but it may only poll for that state every few minutes
Sep 28 04:16:53 <slaxxin> if the light is not on u can unplug/plug an it comes on
Sep 28 04:17:05 <dns53> if you leave it there for a minute or two it can come on
Sep 28 04:17:18 <slaxxin> it didnt come on
Sep 28 04:18:07 <slaxxin> when the light6 is on the charge indicator is on
Sep 28 04:49:38 <fragged> Does the FR support blocking numbers, and answering machine services?
Sep 28 04:50:02 <fragged> so say somebody calls me with there number withheld, I can forward it to a sound file saying to call without private on
Sep 28 04:50:11 <slaxxin> not that i know of yet
Sep 28 04:50:37 <slaxxin> but it may
Sep 28 04:50:56 <fragged> Its theoretically possible, I just dont know that my development skills are up for it
Sep 28 04:51:12 <fragged> but I'm really keen on getting a FR to play with, just dont have the cash flow at this point in time :(
Sep 28 04:51:12 <slaxxin> time to test them:)
Sep 28 04:51:30 <slaxxin> u have qemu?
Sep 28 04:51:44 <fragged> Yeah, the image is a bit of a pain though
Sep 28 04:52:11 <slaxxin> maybe the price will come down a bit
Sep 28 04:52:46 <slaxxin> a gta03 would be worth waiting for    ----maybe
Sep 28 04:55:06 <fragged> slaxxin, theres a planned hardware release?
Sep 28 05:07:01 <slaxxin> not that i know of
Sep 28 05:07:03 <slaxxin>  yet
Sep 28 05:08:24 <ieatlint> there's a plan to release hardware, sure :P
Sep 28 05:08:27 <ieatlint> just not a date
Sep 28 05:09:32 <ieatlint> i'm meeting the vp of marketing for openmoko on tuesday, i'll see if some threats can get some dates out of him
Sep 28 05:10:51 <ieatlint> personally, i'd guess late summer/early fall
Sep 28 05:11:04 <ieatlint> with the #1 issue being software
Sep 28 05:12:24 <mwester> Maybe see if some threats will get a timeline for some software functionality -- that's of more interest to me than more paperweights.
Sep 28 05:13:22 <ieatlint> hehe
Sep 28 05:24:05 <slaxxin> threating
Sep 28 05:24:18 <slaxxin> thats a messed up word
Sep 28 05:27:26 <ieatlint> threatening
Sep 28 05:27:34 <ieatlint> threating isn't a word
Sep 28 05:33:14 <slaxxin> ok
Sep 28 05:34:08 <ieatlint> yeah, english rules... it's a "regular" verb, but irregular from the noun
Sep 28 05:36:03 <raster> boo
Sep 28 05:36:42 <ieatlint> hey raster
Sep 28 05:37:15 <ieatlint> you hung over from your saturday night?
Sep 28 05:38:02 <raster> nup
Sep 28 05:38:50 <ieatlint> i'm on my way.. :P
Sep 28 05:40:28 <ieatlint> okay, and i'm off for a little bit
Sep 28 05:48:25 <rafa_> hi
Sep 28 06:14:48 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07zhone * r88442422adad 10/src/zhone: remove brightness handling from zhone, this is now done in frameworkd
Sep 28 09:53:03 <malik1972> where i can find the "latest" 2007.2 images?
Sep 28 09:53:20 <viq> I believe you're looking for celtune's repo
Sep 28 09:53:55 <malik1972> i am looking for something else -> http://www.mail-archive.com/support@lists.openmoko.org/msg00564.html
Sep 28 09:54:28 <malik1972> viq: for a good gsmhandset.state file
Sep 28 09:55:40 <malik1972> viq: he mentioned that he used the latest 2007.2 image so i wanted to compare the files
Sep 28 09:55:52 <KenYoung> Are new Freerunners still pre-loaded with 2007.2, or are they shipping 2008.x now?
Sep 28 09:56:21 <viq> 2k7 I believe
Sep 28 09:57:10 <malik1972> do you also have gsm problems like buzz, echo, low audio?
Sep 28 10:12:56 <lesouvage> I have installed tangogps and it seem to work ok. I set the dir to store them to my mini sd card.  When I open the menu when I'm on the Map screen and choose the option map download nthing seems to happen. I turned wlan on, set the dns server, have access to the internet and the app has determined my location. Should there be any indication that the downloading is going on . It's 100 mb so...
Sep 28 10:12:58 <lesouvage> ...it would take some time. Any suggestions?
Sep 28 10:13:16 <SpeedEvil> du
Sep 28 10:13:21 <lesouvage> them = map tiles
Sep 28 10:13:24 <SpeedEvil> on the /media/card/whatever directory
Sep 28 10:14:25 <KenYoung> lesouvage, tangogps does not give any download status information, or any completion message, when it is downloading a set of tiles.
Sep 28 10:14:37 <SpeedEvil> I think hte most recent one does.
Sep 28 10:14:52 <lesouvage>  The dir is /media/card/Maps/OSM
Sep 28 10:15:04 <KenYoung> Oh, perhaps I'm mistaken then.  
Sep 28 10:15:55 <lesouvage> I have done an update, opkg install tangogps so I assume that I have the most recent version.
Sep 28 10:16:34 <lesouvage> I end up with numbered files and directories but it certainly does not contain 100mb of map info. Something is happening but what?
Sep 28 10:16:46 <viq> left low corner displays say D6 (number of threads) and 745 (number of tiles left to download)
Sep 28 10:16:54 <SpeedEvil> how did you tell it to download?
Sep 28 10:17:44 <viq> lesouvage: I have a lot of maps downloaded, and it's certainly less than 100MB
Sep 28 10:18:20 <lesouvage> viq: of what screen?
Sep 28 10:19:27 <lesouvage> Speedevil: hit the "Map" screen so a menu appears and hit the map download option after the app determined the location. 
Sep 28 10:19:41 <viq> lesouvage: map screen
Sep 28 10:19:41 <SpeedEvil> lesouvage: what depth did you select?
Sep 28 10:19:55 <SpeedEvil> leu: a depth of 1 means download 4 tiles
Sep 28 10:20:04 <SpeedEvil> leu: a depth of 2 means download 16 tiles ...
Sep 28 10:21:09 <lesouvage> I choose +5 with an indiaction that it is 100 mb. It should fit on my sd card
Sep 28 10:21:26 <SpeedEvil> your area has coverage?
Sep 28 10:21:42 <SpeedEvil> You know that it only downloads what's on the screen?
Sep 28 10:21:44 <viq> lesouvage: my "100MB" download takes up 30MB
Sep 28 10:22:02 <SpeedEvil> That is - the area that is on the screen - in more detail
Sep 28 10:22:02 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * rdaf072935163 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/ubx.py: 
Sep 28 10:22:02 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: ogpsd.ubx: Send the speed in knots to be compatible with the gypsy API
Sep 28 10:22:02 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: (fixes Bug #97) Thanks rwhitby for discovering!
Sep 28 10:22:26 <lesouvage> Yes my city was actually the first city covered by OSM project. I know the guy wh did this personally so I'm pretty shure the info must be there.
Sep 28 10:22:32 <SpeedEvil> london?
Sep 28 10:22:43 <lesouvage> No Assen in Holland.
Sep 28 10:23:05 <SpeedEvil> I'm fairly sure england got mapped generally first. 
Sep 28 10:23:30 <lesouvage> Speedevil: the first city in Holland ;-)
Sep 28 10:23:40 <SpeedEvil> Fair enough.
Sep 28 10:23:52 <SpeedEvil> You've zoomed in live, and found actual data?
Sep 28 10:24:00 <lesouvage> For those who like moterracing: yes we have the annual TT races in town.
Sep 28 10:24:11 <SpeedEvil> How much data is it downloading? (shown by du)
Sep 28 10:24:17 <SpeedEvil> and what tangogps version?
Sep 28 10:24:33 <viq> lesouvage: it's easy enough to compile tangogps on a computer, you can try it that way
Sep 28 10:24:53 <lesouvage> I check it out and come back. Hold the line
Sep 28 10:25:06 * SpeedEvil cues the channel hold music.
Sep 28 10:25:24 * viq hacks in and replaces the music with something else ;)
Sep 28 10:28:20 <lesouvage> funny tangogps is indicating that I'm traveling 530 km p/h
Sep 28 10:29:21 <lesouvage> I see d6 -4436 and it is counting down :-)
Sep 28 10:29:46 <viq> Yup, that's what you should see
Sep 28 10:30:42 <lesouvage> All i need is some patience I guess. At this speed it will take an hour. 
Sep 28 10:31:01 <viq> Patience, young padawan, patience!
Sep 28 10:31:03 <viq> ;)
Sep 28 10:33:45 <lesouvage> I really think tangogps is a killing app if it is workng to its full potential. At least it is a good excuse for spending EUR 300,- on a phone that can't be use for day to day use.
Sep 28 10:34:54 <viq> heh
Sep 28 10:35:04 <lindi-_> lesouvage: being able to squash some bugs should be a good enough excuse already
Sep 28 10:39:57 <lesouvage> lindi: yes I know, don't get me wrong, I see the potential in terms of what it can do for the open source and open content community and how it can enables a service concepts for providing costum made and configured communication devices.  
Sep 28 10:42:18 <lesouvage> I'm more a concept guy and not a developer, althogh I'm not a novice I'm certainly not a developer and  actually don't fit the target group. 
Sep 28 10:43:39 <lindi-_> lesouvage: oh, if everybody just fixed one bug/week it'd be enough :)
Sep 28 10:44:21 <lesouvage> lindi: where is the bug tracker of om2008.9.
Sep 28 10:45:06 <lindi-_> lesouvage: bugs.openmoko.org i assume
Sep 28 10:46:18 <lesouvage> lindi: Although part of the whole opensource concept I think it is a pitty that there are that many different images that can be flashed to the device. It makes it harder to get real commitment. 
Sep 28 10:52:04 <raster> lesouvage: that entirely depends how different they are
Sep 28 10:52:15 <raster> if they really just have a few differences in what packages they have and config
Sep 28 10:52:17 <raster> does it matter?
Sep 28 10:52:41 <raster> if they have vast differences
Sep 28 10:52:42 <raster> sure
Sep 28 10:52:46 <raster> eg qtopia vs all the x11 ones
Sep 28 10:52:59 <raster> the x11 ones all at least share the same windowing system and are able to share apps
Sep 28 10:53:50 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r54a9176c0489 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/ (gsm/const.py modems/abstract/mediator.py): 
Sep 28 10:53:50 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: Raise timeout for SimSendStoredMessage to 10 seconds (fixes #156)
Sep 28 10:53:50 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: Also use of const.TIMEOUT instead of hardcoding the timeout value for
Sep 28 10:53:50 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: SimSendAuthCode
Sep 28 10:57:43 <lindi-_> lesouvage: you shouldn't be flashing images in the first place if you ask me :)
Sep 28 11:02:22 <ChaosEagle> g'day :)
Sep 28 11:05:00 <ChaosEagle> Does anyone here have problems with the gpsd process suddenly vanishing on OM2008.9?
Sep 28 11:07:33 <lesouvage> lindi: what do you mean with not flashing. Stick to om2008?
Sep 28 11:08:50 <lesouvage> Lindi: I have tried several images just after arival. I will now stick to om2008.9 and later versions. 
Sep 28 11:09:34 <raster> lindi-_: they are really convenient ways of getting a now os look and feel.
Sep 28 11:09:49 <raster> as really installing packages at this stage is not practical given the state of wifi...
Sep 28 11:09:50 <raster> :)
Sep 28 11:13:30 <lindi-_> lesouvage: you can use a package manager
Sep 28 11:15:35 <pat^> hi, does the battery life change/increase if the freerunner is used with qtopia ?
Sep 28 11:16:54 <lesouvage> The tangogps download hangs  d7 -1215  Will the download start again after starting again?
Sep 28 11:19:46 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03wessel 07fso-gpsd * rf9a661ae0d5f 10/fso-gpsd.c: Cleanup
Sep 28 11:19:47 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03wessel 07fso-gpsd * rfd1cd578d6ba 10/ (ChangeLog fso-gpsd.c): 
Sep 28 11:19:47 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: Fixed speed for frameworkd 2008-09-28 and newer
Sep 28 11:19:47 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: framework commit: daf0729351631f93f9f2f22af33d46658c6f5d68
Sep 28 11:20:11 <lindi-_> pat^: what consumes energy when the phone is in suspend?
Sep 28 11:20:48 <KenYoung> With the illume keyboard, is there an easy way to make it default to the "terminal" layout, rather than "Numbers", "Symbols" or "Default" ?
Sep 28 11:29:34 <lesouvage> lindi: I have "discovered" the package manager. Still have to do echo "nameserver 192.168.1.1 > /etc/resolv.conf but since the terminal is in place and I can switch keyboard it is not really a problem. 
Sep 28 11:29:42 <lesouvage> after reboot.
Sep 28 11:30:43 <lindi-> lesouvage: how about fixing resolv.conf permanently?
Sep 28 11:32:51 <lesouvage> lindi: I tried that but I seem to do something wrong. I never stick to the same issue for to long because it would drive me crazy. The work around isn't that hard and I'm not ebooting all the times. Call it security by obscurity.
Sep 28 11:33:25 <ChaosEagle> lesouvage: I think the problem is that /etc/resolv.conf is a symbolic link
Sep 28 11:33:25 <lindi-> hrm
Sep 28 11:33:47 <ChaosEagle> lesouvage: I just deleted it and created a real resolv.conf in its place. Seems to work fine :)
Sep 28 11:36:01 <lesouvage> Years go I had Zaurus and I made symlinks to directries on the memory of the device to the sd card so after reflashing I just had to replace a handfull of symlinks to get my old system back. Can the same be done on the freerunner?
Sep 28 11:36:55 <mickey|tw> ya
Sep 28 11:37:03 <mickey|tw> still the samy old ipkg tricks ;)
Sep 28 11:37:29 <pat^> lindi-: lindi, i don't know since i don't own a freerunner yet. i was just asking because i read that the battery life is about 1 day. if that is true and can't be change by using qtopia for example, then i won't purchase a freerunner yet.
Sep 28 11:37:48 <happosade> hello
Sep 28 11:38:01 <ChaosEagle> happosade: Hi!
Sep 28 11:38:28 <happosade> Got error -110 on flashing.. how to change of the size of partition-thing
Sep 28 11:38:47 <nyu> pat^: 1 day is very good.  sometimes it died on me in 8 hours or so (but that was with om2007)
Sep 28 11:39:58 <pat^> nyu: oh ok. then will have to wait a little bit until the battery life increases.
Sep 28 11:40:31 <nyu> pat^: I haven't tested batt life on qtopia
Sep 28 11:40:36 <nyu> could be longer than 1 day
Sep 28 11:40:41 <SpeedEvil> It's not really a qtopia/... thing
Sep 28 11:40:53 <SpeedEvil> there are numberous battery saving bits that haven't been written yet.
Sep 28 11:41:00 <pat^> nyu: thanks for the information
Sep 28 11:41:23 <SpeedEvil> For example, CPU frequency scaling - which is a work in progress (unusable ATM)
Sep 28 11:42:01 <nyu> i stand corrected
Sep 28 11:42:13 <pat^> SpeedEvil: does the qtopia image us the same kernel than the openmoko image?
Sep 28 11:42:21 <nyu> though, userland also has a role in waking up the cpu
Sep 28 11:42:28 <happosade> how to clear openmokos memory to get space to new kernel and om
Sep 28 11:42:29 <happosade> os
Sep 28 11:42:43 <SpeedEvil> It's really a combined userland + kernel + u-boot thing.
Sep 28 11:42:47 <pat^> ah ok
Sep 28 11:42:56 <SpeedEvil> If all the parts are there, it works well.
Sep 28 11:43:09 <SpeedEvil> (maybe a week standby, 12h+ mp3, ...)
Sep 28 11:43:15 <pat^> is there much work to be done? maybe i can help, but i am not a kernel developer, so i am not sure if i can help with this issue
Sep 28 11:43:23 <SpeedEvil> Much of it is kernel.
Sep 28 11:43:35 <pat^> thats what i thought :)
Sep 28 11:44:36 <nyu> SpeedEvil: u-boot as well?
Sep 28 11:44:57 <nyu> pat^: kernels are just big C programs
Sep 28 11:45:24 <nyu> except for some tricky parts like the scheduler
Sep 28 11:45:38 <pat^> nyu: yeah i know, i developed a small kernel module already, i meant that i am not an active or "big" kernel programmer, so i am not used to all the internals etc
Sep 28 11:45:47 <nyu> if you can hack C & drivers you can hack linux :-)
Sep 28 11:45:52 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_1973_GTA01_Power_Management is an overview.
Sep 28 11:45:59 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r1c250aec4468 10/framework/ (5 files in 4 dirs): ogsmd: start catching up with new way of dealing with Resources
Sep 28 11:45:59 <SpeedEvil> Much of that is still relevant
Sep 28 11:47:13 <pat^> so the kernel is not able to dynmically adjust the speed of the cpu yet, right?
Sep 28 11:47:33 <ChaosEagle> CU everyone =)
Sep 28 11:47:35 <ChaosEagle> *waves*
Sep 28 11:48:03 <nyu> lots of work to be done, it seems :-/
Sep 28 11:50:32 <Batchy> i've bridged a neo to my local network. it works fine, but it can't access the internet. launching a wireshark to monitor what's happen shows me that packets are sent through the interface, but it's like the neo ignore them
Sep 28 11:51:27 <lindi-> pat^: still, think about it, what does consume energy when the phone is in suspend?
Sep 28 11:52:10 <dos1> lindi-: ~4mA
Sep 28 11:52:34 <lindi-> dos1: i was asking what consumes the energy, not how much is consumed :)
Sep 28 11:52:46 <dos1> oh :)
Sep 28 11:52:50 <pat^> lindi-: i suspend almost nothing, but i am not able to receive calls, am i ß
Sep 28 11:53:15 <lindi-> pat^: why not receive calls?
Sep 28 11:53:35 <pat^> lindi-: i am not sure what components are active in suspend mode on the phone
Sep 28 11:53:47 <lindi-> pat^: the GSM usually
Sep 28 11:53:48 <dos1> gsm, wifi, ram
Sep 28 11:53:56 <lindi-> wifi can be off of course
Sep 28 11:54:10 <dos1> yes
Sep 28 11:54:18 <pat^> lindi-: ok, so it wakes up if the gsm module creates an interrupt ?
Sep 28 11:54:27 <dos1> pat^: yes
Sep 28 11:54:32 <lindi-> pat^: if the GSM writes to the serial port yes
Sep 28 11:54:34 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rd9d37a2807a1 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/objects.py: ogsmd: startup on enabling resource now complete
Sep 28 11:55:05 <pat^> ah ok. i was thinking that the device acts like my notebook for example, but i haven't thought about, that i can wake up my notebook by a key press for example, doh :)
Sep 28 11:55:30 <pat^> but thats nice to know, so the life in suspend should be long enough
Sep 28 11:55:51 <lindi-> yes
Sep 28 11:55:52 <nyu> can you suspend in qtopia?
Sep 28 11:56:43 <nyu> lindi-: is this automated, or needs to be done manually?
Sep 28 11:57:01 <lindi-> nyu: which part?
Sep 28 11:57:15 <lindi-> nyu: i haven't managed to compile qtopia yet
Sep 28 11:57:31 <pat^> lindi-: i guess you own a freerunner? how long does the battery last if you suspend it regularly ?
Sep 28 11:58:03 <lindi-> pat^: http://iki.fi/lindi/openmoko/logger and see yourself the battery energy statistics
Sep 28 11:58:25 <nyu> lindi-: are you working on qtopia debs?  cool
Sep 28 11:58:30 <dos1> pat^: i'm using it often, but when i don't use it, it goes to suspend, and my fr lives for ~2 days
Sep 28 11:58:34 <lindi-> nyu: no
Sep 28 11:58:36 <nyu> lindi-: I'm using the qtopia/om distribution
Sep 28 11:58:46 <lindi-> nyu: i'm just saying that i can't say much about qtopia since i have not managed to compile it
Sep 28 11:58:52 <nyu> ah ok
Sep 28 11:58:54 <dos1> qtopia/om? you mean asu (2008.8)?
Sep 28 11:59:15 <nyu> I mean qtopia UI on om distro, as opposed to would-be qtopia on debian
Sep 28 11:59:29 <nyu> s/UI/UI et al/g
Sep 28 11:59:29 <apt> nyu meant: I mean qtopia UI et al on om distro, as opposed to would-be qtopia on debian
Sep 28 12:02:43 <dos1> nyu: are you using qtopia on X11, or on fb?
Sep 28 12:03:50 <nyu> dos1: fb
Sep 28 12:04:06 <dos1> nyu: so it's not om distro
Sep 28 12:04:35 <nyu> dos1: then why do I have opkg?
Sep 28 12:05:02 <dos1> because it's only based on openmoko base image
Sep 28 12:05:20 <dos1> your image is official, trolltech's qtopia
Sep 28 12:05:20 <nyu> "base image" is what I usually call distro
Sep 28 12:05:51 <dos1> so you are using it wrongly in openmoko context
Sep 28 12:05:57 <nyu> I know
Sep 28 12:20:51 <swc|666> anhyone here ever use LXDE?
Sep 28 12:20:59 <swc|666> anyone*
Sep 28 12:24:10 <desowin> swc|666: that's the windows-alike desktop?
Sep 28 12:27:40 <swc|666> desowin: its a lightweight x11 desktop... pita to customize the menus
Sep 28 12:28:17 <desowin> swc|666: I like rox over lxde anyway
Sep 28 12:28:35 <desowin> (and xfce over both at desktop ;) )
Sep 28 12:28:53 <swc|666> yea xfce is good but lxde is cleaner and mor elightweight
Sep 28 12:30:13 <desowin> swc|666: rox for me then
Sep 28 12:33:30 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r5746a4290c26 10/framework/resource.py: add state transition tracking for Resources
Sep 28 12:33:30 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rc5872991be16 10/ (ChangeLog framework/subsystems/ogsmd/objects.py): ogsmd: Resource-handling now working with enable/suspend/resume
Sep 28 12:35:24 <Zorkman> I flashed the latest FDOM to my SD card, but i can't ssh in (ifconfig does not show usb0)
Sep 28 12:36:16 <Zorkman> ifup usb0 gives "no such device" errors
Sep 28 12:36:59 <bumbl> anyone here with latest fdom?
Sep 28 12:37:08 <bumbl> i can't launch duke
Sep 28 12:37:16 <Zorkman> bumbl: i just flashed it
Sep 28 12:37:18 <Zorkman> i'll test it
Sep 28 12:38:13 <Zorkman> bumbl: nope, screen rotates and changes resolution and the loading icon appears and then it just quits and returns to normal
Sep 28 12:38:21 <bumbl> Zorkman: i have the same problem with usb0 too
Sep 28 12:38:24 <Zorkman> bumbl: can you ssh in ?
Sep 28 12:38:27 <Zorkman> aha
Sep 28 12:38:36 <Zorkman> i'll post a message about it on the ML
Sep 28 12:38:47 <bumbl> Zorkman: at least I am not the only one who has those probelms
Sep 28 12:38:50 <bumbl> problems
Sep 28 12:39:15 <bumbl> brokenmoko
Sep 28 12:39:20 <Gnutoo> hello, i've a big problem...i need the gps and tangogps has a ! on the bottom left of the screen....
Sep 28 12:39:50 <viq> Gnutoo: ! is "don't download maps automatically"
Sep 28 12:39:53 <bumbl> haha
Sep 28 12:40:01 <Gnutoo> ok thanks a lot
Sep 28 12:41:08 <bumbl> the folks at ferrari weren't able to get the petrol pipe out of the petrol tank
Sep 28 12:43:04 <happosade> How to type numbers in PIN code? (2008.8)
Sep 28 12:43:20 <Zorkman> bumbl: you running from SD or from internal flash?
Sep 28 12:43:43 <Zorkman> happosade:  slide your finger downwards over the keyboard
Sep 28 12:44:08 <bumbl> Zorkman: internal flash
Sep 28 12:44:44 <Zorkman> bumbl: latest kernel?
Sep 28 12:45:31 <bumbl> Zorkman: yes
Sep 28 12:45:43 <bumbl> the one of yesterday
Sep 28 12:46:51 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * ra0802ef33442 10/ (4 files in 3 dirs): 
Sep 28 12:46:51 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: otapi: remove PrepareForSuspend and RecoverFromSuspend from org.freesmartphone.GSM.Device
Sep 28 12:46:51 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: ousage: document org.freesmartphone.Resource interface
Sep 28 12:47:55 <yamitenshi> hi, little question: where are the .desktop files you see in the 2008.8 menu located?
Sep 28 12:48:25 <viq> something like /usr/share/applications
Sep 28 12:48:39 <yamitenshi> I'm currently installing wesnoth, and I believe I should edit the .desktop file for it :)
Sep 28 12:48:51 <yamitenshi> mmm... makes sense
Sep 28 12:49:02 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * rc2d6d20f1e4a 10/ (3 files in 3 dirs): link org.freesmartphone.Resource
Sep 28 12:49:30 <yamitenshi> tried creating one of my own once though, with FSO, so I could suspend whenever I wanted to (didn't work with the power button), but it didn't show =\
Sep 28 12:49:40 <yamitenshi> anything special you need to do to make it show up?
Sep 28 12:49:55 <Zorkman> yamitenshi: chose your "categories" carefull :)
Sep 28 12:50:11 <bumbl> i wish fso would be mainline and there would be some nice apps for it
Sep 28 12:50:23 <Zorkman> better just to edit an existing file and not touch the categories, just change name, description, and exec (and maybe icon)
Sep 28 12:50:37 <yamitenshi> Zorkman: well, I edited another file, but it still didn't work =\
Sep 28 12:50:49 <bumbl> 2008.x is just a mess
Sep 28 12:50:55 <yamitenshi> but maybe I accidentally changed something
Sep 28 12:51:15 <yamitenshi> bumbl: true :P
Sep 28 12:54:26 <Shlee> Waiting for qtopia 4.4
Sep 28 12:55:33 <Zorkman> bumbl: accelerometers working on you FDOM?
Sep 28 12:55:50 <happosade> Efff. Handsets speaker is that above of screen?
Sep 28 12:55:53 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07zhone * r56405b144f55 10/src/zhone: catch up with moving Suspend from org.freesmartphone.GSM.Device to org.freesmartphone.Usage
Sep 28 12:55:55 <happosade> Dont work..
Sep 28 12:56:18 <dns53> any idea where 4.4 is going to come out?
Sep 28 13:02:08 <bumbl> Zorkman: how should i test?
Sep 28 13:02:38 <bipak_> where do i need to put a shellscript on qtopia for beeing able to start it from the applications menü?
Sep 28 13:03:07 <bipak_> tried to adding a appname.desktop file to /opt/.../apps/Applications but it doesnt appear in the menu
Sep 28 13:04:30 <bumbl> bipak_: pack it to /usr/share/???
Sep 28 13:04:59 <bipak_> there is a /usr/share/applications but its empty
Sep 28 13:05:24 <Zorkman> bumbl: terminal or open remoko and press the train button and swing it around, if it doens't move, it doesn't registerer anything, anyway, not really that important
Sep 28 13:05:26 <bipak_> i'm not able to find the location of the other programms in the Applications menu.. :(
Sep 28 13:19:52 <kishore> I installed debian on my fr and now have xfce installed
Sep 28 13:20:10 <kishore> i set up to run x as user but it seems to still execute as root
Sep 28 13:20:33 <kishore> how do i ensure that i am operating as user and not as root
Sep 28 13:21:18 <kishore> i followed instructions from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian
Sep 28 13:24:35 <kishore> it seems to me that editing /etc/inittab has no effect
Sep 28 13:25:18 <lindi-> kishore: have you edited inittab before?
Sep 28 13:26:22 <kishore> lindi-: before? i have tried editing it in various ways
Sep 28 13:27:24 <aliases123> lindi-: is this for not as root ? -- i can't get that to work.
Sep 28 13:27:35 <lindi-> i use gdm right now
Sep 28 13:27:41 <lindi-> kishore: ps axuf?
Sep 28 13:27:41 <aliases123> lindi-: memory much ?
Sep 28 13:27:46 <lindi-> aliases123: quite a lot
Sep 28 13:28:02 <lindi-> aliases123: 5 megabytes
Sep 28 13:28:16 <aliases123> mmm. not that bad
Sep 28 13:28:25 <lindi-> kishore: aliases123: the tip in the wiki does not do pam initialization
Sep 28 13:28:45 <lindi-> so i have HOME=/ in xterm with that. that's why i currently just use gdm
Sep 28 13:30:01 <kishore> editing inittab commenting out the tty1 line has no effect either! stil logs in!
Sep 28 13:30:27 <kishore> im not sure what effect inittab has and when it is executed in boot
Sep 28 13:30:28 <lindi-> kishore: init q?
Sep 28 13:30:48 <kishore> init q and pkill getty did not do anything
Sep 28 13:30:54 <SpeedEvil> inittab is read by init
Sep 28 13:30:55 <lindi-> kishore: ps axuf?
Sep 28 13:30:57 <SpeedEvil> (clasically)
Sep 28 13:31:21 <SpeedEvil> It calls the programs listed in inittab, and connects them to terminals
Sep 28 13:31:46 <lindi-> no no, init does not know anything about terminals
Sep 28 13:31:53 <SpeedEvil> It has per-runlevel program lists, and lists of what to do to go from one to the other
Sep 28 13:32:05 <SpeedEvil> yes, the programs connect to the terminals
Sep 28 13:32:15 <happosade> how to ssh-connect to moko freerunner?
Sep 28 13:32:15 <SpeedEvil> init just calls them.
Sep 28 13:32:34 <SpeedEvil> happosade: can you ping it?
Sep 28 13:32:44 <kishore> lindi-: thats long list and i do not see getty in there
Sep 28 13:32:55 <lindi-> kishore: complete list would be nice
Sep 28 13:33:07 <happosade> what sound be that where to ping/connect
Sep 28 13:33:16 <happosade> ssh/ping ???
Sep 28 13:33:27 <SpeedEvil> happosade: ping <ip address of phone>
Sep 28 13:33:47 <happosade> where i see that?
Sep 28 13:34:22 <kishore> lindi-: http://pastebin.com/d73392bc6
Sep 28 13:34:23 <SpeedEvil> happosade:
Sep 28 13:34:27 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networkinghttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking
Sep 28 13:34:59 <lindi-> kishore: X seems to be running just fine
Sep 28 13:35:04 <lindi-> kishore: what's in inittab?
Sep 28 13:35:20 <kishore> lindi- yes x is fine
Sep 28 13:35:38 * raster puts on his initpants
Sep 28 13:36:42 <kishore> lindi-: http://pastebin.com/d6c8b0214
Sep 28 13:37:16 <lindi-> kishore: yeah, you need to kill the X processes before init will start a getty
Sep 28 13:37:25 <kishore> i havef tried commenting out either of the 1: and both too to no effect
Sep 28 13:37:42 <lindi-> kishore: it respawns the process only when it has died
Sep 28 13:37:43 <kishore> i have even tried to reboot
Sep 28 13:37:57 <kishore> ok let me try again now
Sep 28 13:37:58 <lindi-> kishore: ah, what starts the X then?
Sep 28 13:38:41 <kishore> lindi- i dont know! when i had both commected out, i got zhone in a full window!
Sep 28 13:39:15 <lindi-> kishore: figure it out: cat /proc/2702/environ | tr '\0' '\n' should give a hint
Sep 28 13:59:21 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r892b8f9c6745 10/framework/subsystems/ousaged/generic.py: 
Sep 28 13:59:21 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: ousaged: Call start() method on the tasklet
Sep 28 13:59:21 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: Before that the nameownerchanged signals were lost
Sep 28 14:21:51 <kishore> lindi-: i had to do "update-rc.d -f xfce remove"
Sep 28 14:22:09 <kishore> when the guide says defaults instead
Sep 28 14:22:17 <kishore> lindi-: thanks for the help
Sep 28 14:22:27 <kishore> i now have it working
Sep 28 14:34:25 <lindi-> kishore: good
Sep 28 14:36:28 <kishore> xfce does not shw the battery status.. anyway to get it?
Sep 28 14:37:43 <lindi-> kishore: mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.frameworkd /org/freesmartphone/Device/PowerSupply/bat org.freesmartphone.Device.PowerSupply.GetEnergyPercentage
Sep 28 14:42:21 <kishore> thanks
Sep 28 14:42:33 <kishore> and how does one close a window in xfce with matchbox. especially for a terminal that does not have a menu bar?
Sep 28 14:42:53 <kishore> sorry for my newbie questions, i am kde user on the desktop
Sep 28 14:44:14 <hama_> kishore: ctrl-c ?
Sep 28 14:46:07 <kishore> and without a keyboard? no cross botton like stuff?
Sep 28 14:55:11 <spydon> Does anyone have the URI to that snake game?
Sep 28 14:58:11 <aliases123> no. does it work ?
Sep 28 15:00:21 <spydon> aliases123, are you talking to me? :P
Sep 28 15:01:01 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * r93c652848e6f 10/framework/patterns/tasklet.py: tasklet: add debug helper for unstarted tasklets
Sep 28 15:04:36 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r77b887da0d72 10/framework/subsystems/ (ogsmd/modems/abstract/pdp.py ousaged/generic.py): 
Sep 28 15:04:36 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: fix GPRS connections with given user. Closes FSO #140
Sep 28 15:04:36 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: Patch by lindi, thanks a lot!
Sep 28 15:07:27 <kishore> is it possible to have the dialer and pim apps from FSDOM in my debian install?
Sep 28 15:08:51 <sicu> spydon: used to be: http://tehinterweb.com/snake ... but not any more for some reason or other ? :/
Sep 28 15:09:31 <spydon> sicu, ewird
Sep 28 15:09:35 <spydon> weird* :P
Sep 28 15:11:27 <Shlee> Trac is broken
Sep 28 15:16:20 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * ra355a0f8c637 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/ (gpsdevice.py om.py ubx.py): 
Sep 28 15:16:20 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: ogpsd: Switch ogpsd to the new resource handling in ousaged
Sep 28 15:16:20 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: (fixes #158)
Sep 28 15:21:42 <kishore> with the debian install how can i emulate a right click?
Sep 28 15:25:15 <aliases123> spydon: yep
Sep 28 15:26:03 <spydon> aliases123, yeah it works, but its beta and a lot of improvements are comming up according to the author
Sep 28 15:26:11 <aliases123> ok.
Sep 28 15:27:08 <spydon> aliases123, ftp://spydon.is-a-geek.net/OpenForAll/snake
Sep 28 15:27:48 <dos1> spydon: what is this?
Sep 28 15:28:19 <spydon> dos1, its a snake that you play with the accelerometers
Sep 28 15:28:53 <dos1> oh, i will test it ;]
Sep 28 15:32:37 <spydon> I think ieatlint programmed it...
Sep 28 15:33:00 <sicu> correct
Sep 28 15:50:14 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * r4d7420ee301b 10/framework/subsystems/ousaged/generic.py: ousaged: check if the resource exists
Sep 28 15:50:15 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * rbde190a7b776 10/framework/subsystems/ousaged/generic.py: ousaged: use the Resource object via an interface
Sep 28 15:50:39 <transylvania> hmm debian install broken 
Sep 28 15:57:26 <lindi-> transylvania: how?
Sep 28 15:58:12 <transylvania> lindi-: fso-frameworkd: Depends: gstreamer0.10-plugins-good but it is not going to be installed & gstreamer0.10-plugins-good: Depends: libcaca0 (>= 0.99.beta13b-1) but it is not going to be installed
Sep 28 15:58:14 <transylvania>                               Depends: libcucul0 (>= 0.99.beta13b-1) but it is not going to be installed
Sep 28 15:58:34 <lindi-> transylvania: the libcucul0 issue is known
Sep 28 15:58:46 <lindi-> transylvania: i can't build it since ruby hasn't been built on armel :P
Sep 28 15:58:47 <transylvania> gstreamer0.10-plugins-good broken because of libcucul0/libcaca0 update in sid
Sep 28 15:59:02 <transylvania> not a problem, I'll wait
Sep 28 15:59:20 <transylvania> and play with om2008.9 for the momenbt
Sep 28 16:02:55 <hama_> does suspend works in debian?
Sep 28 16:13:43 <lindi-> hama_: it's kernel issue
Sep 28 16:13:59 <lindi-> hama_: so why wouldn't it work? debian hasn't changed kernel
Sep 28 16:21:45 <jadams> has anyone gotten fdom running on the gta01?  I'm assuming it's not supported.
Sep 28 16:33:58 <baba_melone> Hi. Could anybody please send me a libsdl opkg with sdl version 1.2.12 or later
Sep 28 16:34:24 <lindi-> baba_melone: can't you build it?
Sep 28 16:34:31 <baba_melone> I need it to play battle for wesnoth, but I cant open the forum web site where I found it, it is currently unavailable
Sep 28 16:34:39 <baba_melone> no i dont have openembedded
Sep 28 16:34:46 <baba_melone> not yet
Sep 28 16:36:41 <lindi-> just get it :)
Sep 28 16:38:41 <baba_melone> how big is it actually?
Sep 28 16:38:52 <lindi-> you have problems with HDD space?
Sep 28 16:39:34 <baba_melone> yeah
Sep 28 16:39:50 <baba_melone> and I dont want to install it to my home dir
Sep 28 16:39:58 <lindi-> hdd space is like cheap
Sep 28 16:40:18 <baba_melone> yeah, and yet I dont have enough
Sep 28 16:40:20 <lindi-> 1 EUR gets around 2 gigabytes nowadays?
Sep 28 16:40:29 <baba_melone> might be
Sep 28 16:40:36 <baba_melone> but ive got a notebook
Sep 28 16:40:47 <lindi-> get a shell account somewhere remotely
Sep 28 16:40:53 <lindi-> i wouldn't build anything on a notebook
Sep 28 16:40:59 <baba_melone> I would
Sep 28 16:41:08 <lindi-> the build results would be offline when i need them :P
Sep 28 16:41:37 <lindi-> i have spare 40G laptop HDD btw
Sep 28 16:41:59 <lindi-> it's spare since i can't have both solid state disk and the original hdd installed at the same time
Sep 28 16:42:25 <kishore> when using the matchbox wm how does one exit an application that does show a menu bar?
Sep 28 16:42:33 <lindi-> kishore: kill
Sep 28 16:42:52 <kishore> oh!
Sep 28 16:43:30 <kishore> lindi-: i recollet the ubuntu netwook remix having a button on the panel that would exit the currently active applciation
Sep 28 16:44:20 <kishore> is that a panel applet that's available for xfce?
Sep 28 16:44:27 <lindi-> kishore: no idea
Sep 28 16:44:40 <lindi-> kishore: do you have url to the source?
Sep 28 16:45:00 <kishore> no but im looking for it now
Sep 28 16:47:12 <sicu> good thing hdd space is cheap ... just realised a few days ago that my render-pc was running out so had to go out and buy two new 1TB hdd
Sep 28 16:51:58 <kishore> lindi-: they seem to have an alternate taskbar. see http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/151
Sep 28 16:59:06 <kishore> how does one right click with the debian install? i want to configure the xfce panel
Sep 28 16:59:16 <kishore> is it currently possible?
Sep 28 17:03:47 <sicu> kishore: ML: Right mouse button tslib patch
Sep 28 17:04:41 <sicu> kishore: http://n2.nabble.com/Right-mouse-button-tslib-patch-tp727878p727878.html
Sep 28 17:04:49 <kishore> sicu: thanks. i did read about that. What i need to do to use it? is there a package?
Sep 28 17:16:52 <xzcvczx> if you setenv bootarg_base then execute boot on the phone should it be using the bootarg you have set for that boot?
Sep 28 17:19:10 <sicu> kishore: http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/smartphones-userland/2008-September/000115.html
Sep 28 17:19:13 <xzcvczx> ah nvm it does
Sep 28 17:24:33 <pwerken> m
Sep 28 17:32:37 <xzcvczx> has anyone built a u-boot with CONFIG_SILENT_CONSOLE enabled?
Sep 28 17:58:26 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r44e8179a3dc2 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/helpers.py: ogpsd: Add file I missed in a355a0f8c6374ded40fe5446cadfb0646c3a3172
Sep 28 18:15:06 <Frostshock> when will openmoko be ready for the public?
Sep 28 18:15:20 <dos1> tomorrow
Sep 28 18:15:21 <dos1> :P
Sep 28 18:16:03 <Frostshock> before the end of 2008?
Sep 28 18:16:27 <dos1> i think no
Sep 28 18:16:42 <dos1> imho asu will never be ready for the public
Sep 28 18:17:00 <dos1> maybe something like shr or new tichy stack
Sep 28 18:17:49 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r76c6f834a37f 10/framework/resource.py: supply dbus error in dbus-error callback for resource handling
Sep 28 18:18:09 <Frostshock> are there to few people invloved in the project or is the hardware crap?
Sep 28 18:19:21 <dos1> hardware is good
Sep 28 18:21:18 <lindi-> Frostshock: too many people just download images and don't report/fix bugs
Sep 28 18:21:56 <Frostshock> ok.. how many people are involved in programming?
Sep 28 18:23:09 <swc|666> 6.2
Sep 28 18:23:43 <Frostshock> 6 adults and 2 minors? :)
Sep 28 18:23:48 <swc|666> yep.
Sep 28 18:24:19 <lindi-> swc|666: were you the one that was able to reproduce fso #151?
Sep 28 18:24:51 <swc|666> lindi-: refrsh my memory
Sep 28 18:25:42 <lymeac> I'm trying to buy a Freerunner right now, an 850 band one.
Sep 28 18:25:56 <lindi-> swc|666: the distorted voice
Sep 28 18:26:04 <swc|666> ah yes
Sep 28 18:26:39 <lindi-> swc|666: can you report what operator and gsm firmware version you are using there? we need to figure out why this only affects some users
Sep 28 18:26:55 <lymeac> IThe GP2X store won't process my order though
Sep 28 18:27:06 <lymeac> I want it shipped to Massachusetts in one to two days
Sep 28 18:27:40 <lymeac> What's the best store?  I'd also like to avoid tax.  The bank account is in California, so avoiding a california store would be optimal.
Sep 28 18:27:45 <swc|666> lindi-: if you are referring to me that i'm the one that filed it, no... but i'm the one that helped u the other day
Sep 28 18:28:12 <lindi-> swc|666: i'd help to get feedback from as many people as possible
Sep 28 18:28:27 <lindi-> swc|666: so that we can figure out if it is caused by the operator or not
Sep 28 18:28:32 <swc|666> ah
Sep 28 18:28:39 <swc|666> so what do u need me todo
Sep 28 18:28:57 <swc|666> operator + firmware v?
Sep 28 18:29:10 <lindi-> yep
Sep 28 18:29:13 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r4ac26c3c830e 10/framework/subsystems/ousaged/generic.py: ousaged: Call correct method to register a resource
Sep 28 18:31:35 <swc|666> lindi-: how does one print the modem firmware
Sep 28 18:32:15 <mickey|tw> call org.freesmartphone.GSM.Device.GetInfo() on /org/freesmartphone/GSM/Device
Sep 28 18:32:34 <swc|666> kk
Sep 28 18:32:56 <swc|666> so i have to write python to do that? o0
Sep 28 18:35:42 <lindi-> swc|666: mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.frameworkd /org/freesmartphone/GSM/Device org.freesmartphone.GSM.Device.GetInfo
Sep 28 18:36:01 <lindi-> but you might not want to publish your imei
Sep 28 18:36:15 <swc|666> definitely not
Sep 28 18:37:29 <swc|666>  /org/freesmartphone/GSM/Device: GetInfo ->  dbus.Dictionary({dbus.String(u'imei'): dbus.String(u'XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX', variant_level=1), dbus.String(u'model'): dbus.String(u'"Neo1973 GTA02 Embedded GSM Modem"', variant_level=1), dbus.String(u'revision'): dbus.String(u'"HW: GTA02BV5, GSM: gsm_ac_gp_fd_pu_em_cph_ds_vc_cal35_ri_36_amd8_ts0-Moko8"', variant_level=1), dbus.String(u'manufacturer'): dbus.String(u'FIC/OpenMoko', variant_level=1)}
Sep 28 18:37:29 <swc|666> , signature=dbus.Signature('sv'))
Sep 28 18:37:41 <swc|666> at&t operator
Sep 28 18:42:11 <lindi-> swc|666: can you add that to the bug report? i just added mine: http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/151#comment:5
Sep 28 18:42:31 <swc|666> k
Sep 28 18:43:54 <swc|666> done
Sep 28 18:50:32 <lindi-> sicu: can you too add your details to http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/151?
Sep 28 18:50:59 <lindi-> TAsn: and you? ;)
Sep 28 18:52:32 <sicu> lindi-: i will check the quality of voice and audio at work tomorrow, and add my details if i have distortion
Sep 28 18:53:23 <sicu> i have access to 8 different sims, so will check them all
Sep 28 18:53:44 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r97372081a4f9 10/framework/subsystems/ousaged/generic.py: ousaged: Get rid of the asserts and raise DBusExceptions instead
Sep 28 18:54:38 <lindi-> sicu: good
Sep 28 18:58:52 <yabo> if i wanted to compile programs for my freerunner
Sep 28 18:58:58 <yabo> i would use an arm-compiler?
Sep 28 18:59:56 <lindi-> yabo: gcc
Sep 28 19:00:49 <yabo> where would i get a gcc-package that compiled stuff that would work for the freerunner?
Sep 28 19:01:04 <yabo> because you need one that compiles for the right processor-architecture, right?
Sep 28 19:01:24 <lindi-> yabo: either cross-compile or run gcc inside qemu
Sep 28 19:03:15 <yabo> usj hard..
Sep 28 19:04:23 <lindi-> yabo: not at all
Sep 28 19:04:50 <TAsn> mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.frameworkd /org/freesmartphone/Device/PowerSupply/bat org.freesmartphone.Device.PowerSupply?.GetEnergyPercentage?
Sep 28 19:04:51 <TAsn> returns
Sep 28 19:04:51 <TAsn> HW: GTA02BV5, GSM: gsm_ac_gp_fd_pu_em_cph_ds_vc_cal35_ri_36_amd8_ts0-Moko8 
Sep 28 19:05:03 <TAsn> lindi-, that's what you want me to do ? (copy pasted from trac)
Sep 28 19:05:14 <TAsn> doing that i only get the percentage ;]
Sep 28 19:05:25 <lindi-> wrong line
Sep 28 19:05:29 <yabo> so if i downloaded the source for a linux program, gcc cross-compiled it and put it on my freerunner, the program would work if the dependencies were on the freerunner?
Sep 28 19:05:43 <lindi-> TAsn: but yes that firmware version is what is needed :)
Sep 28 19:05:53 <lindi-> yabo: yep
Sep 28 19:06:00 <yabo> awesome
Sep 28 19:06:02 <TAsn> lindi-, where do i get that from?
Sep 28 19:06:08 <TAsn> (firmware)
Sep 28 19:06:16 <TAsn> *firmware version
Sep 28 19:06:18 <yabo> is there a tutorial or something for cross-compiling for the freerunner somewhere?
Sep 28 19:06:23 <lindi-> TAsn: mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.frameworkd /org/freesmartphone/GSM/Device org.freesmartphone.GSM.Device.GetInfo
Sep 28 19:06:32 <lindi-> yabo: what distro do you have on the FR?
Sep 28 19:06:45 <yabo> qtopia atm
Sep 28 19:07:07 <lindi-> yabo: ah, i haven't managed to compile qtopia from source yet
Sep 28 19:07:35 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r06bc4adab61e 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/om.py: ogpsd.om: Reorder shutdown sequence and force GPS power off at start
Sep 28 19:07:41 <TAsn> lindi-, done
Sep 28 19:07:46 <yabo> i dont understand
Sep 28 19:07:46 <TAsn> thanks for you efforts.
Sep 28 19:08:01 <lindi-> yabo: exactly that
Sep 28 19:08:19 <yabo> you havent managed to compile the qtopia-distro?
Sep 28 19:09:14 <lindi-> yabo: yes
Sep 28 19:09:24 <yabo> i just want to compile other stuff
Sep 28 19:09:32 <yabo> applications i might use and the likes
Sep 28 19:09:40 <lindi-> yabo: i won't install anything i can't compile, sorry :)
Sep 28 19:09:40 <yabo> so i could use them on my freerunner
Sep 28 19:11:11 <yabo> anyway, cross-compilation guide or something?
Sep 28 19:11:18 <yabo> do you know any?
Sep 28 19:11:34 <lindi-> the mokomakefile instructions
Sep 28 19:11:53 <hama_> gcc-dokus
Sep 28 19:12:00 <hama_> docu
Sep 28 19:14:09 * yabo scratches his head
Sep 28 19:14:42 <yabo> wait.
Sep 28 19:14:51 <yabo> make
Sep 28 19:14:54 <yabo> make install
Sep 28 19:14:56 <yabo> and stuff like that
Sep 28 19:14:59 <yabo> what does that do?
Sep 28 19:15:41 <hama_> yabo: man make
Sep 28 19:16:35 <lindi-> yabo: hmm?
Sep 28 19:16:46 <yabo> are they builtin with the stuff you download
Sep 28 19:16:57 <lindi-> yabo: in a typical distro?
Sep 28 19:16:59 <yabo> or is that gcc or something compiling?
Sep 28 19:17:10 <lindi-> yabo: gcc is the compiler you usually want to use
Sep 28 19:17:23 <lindi-> yabo: make is for figuring out what file needs to be compiled and how
Sep 28 19:17:29 <hama_> yabo: open a console and type 'man make'
Sep 28 19:18:27 <yabo> alright
Sep 28 19:18:46 <yabo> so
Sep 28 19:18:52 <yabo> if i downloaded a source
Sep 28 19:19:04 <yabo> for anything
Sep 28 19:19:09 <yabo> lets say all the dependencies are in order
Sep 28 19:19:16 <yabo> what would i do to make it run on my fr?
Sep 28 19:20:29 <yabo> i cant just download the source
Sep 28 19:20:32 <yabo> ./configure
Sep 28 19:20:34 <yabo> make'
Sep 28 19:20:35 <yabo> make install
Sep 28 19:20:41 <yabo> and then it would work
Sep 28 19:20:45 <yabo> or?
Sep 28 19:21:09 <lindi-> yabo: if you run that make on x86 then you'll get x86 binaries that won't run on arm
Sep 28 19:21:26 <lindi-> yabo: if you run it inside arm qemu environment then it'll just work: http://newpeople.debian.org/~aurel32/qemu/armel/
Sep 28 19:21:44 <hama_> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_developer_guide
Sep 28 19:21:46 <yabo> yeah thats what i mean
Sep 28 19:21:54 <yabo> if i did what i said on the phone
Sep 28 19:22:03 <lindi-> yabo: then it'll just work
Sep 28 19:22:07 <lindi-> yabo: if qtopia has gcc
Sep 28 19:22:20 <yabo> awesome!
Sep 28 19:22:22 <yabo> thanks :D
Sep 28 19:22:43 <hama_> well, its not that easy...
Sep 28 19:22:49 <lindi-> in debian it is :)
Sep 28 19:23:06 <yabo> why not, hama_?
Sep 28 19:23:24 <hama_> first the deps..
Sep 28 19:23:43 <hama_> well, try it...
Sep 28 19:24:20 * lindi- is running sudo qemubuilder --build libcaca_0.99.beta15-1.dsc right now to build a debian package for arm
Sep 28 19:24:53 <hama_> lindi-: try 'gambas'  :)
Sep 28 19:25:46 <lindi-> hama_: i can apt-get install gambas2 but the description does not look too nice :)
Sep 28 19:26:21 <hama_> gambas2 is a very nice rad-tool... real nice...
Sep 28 19:26:45 <hama_> me use c/c++ at work, but me love gambas...
Sep 28 19:27:46 <hama_> but i was joking get it on arm...
Sep 28 19:28:21 <swc|666> apt-get install sleep
Sep 28 19:28:56 <hama_> tuxcard steering with accelrators could be nice :)
Sep 28 19:30:03 <hama_> grr, tuxcard... rofl... tuxkart me mean.. its too late for me...
Sep 28 19:32:08 <yabo> so'
Sep 28 19:32:19 <yabo> no wait i can check myself
Sep 28 19:35:05 <yabo> so
Sep 28 19:35:15 <yabo> a guy told me that if i want to compile on my phone
Sep 28 19:35:19 <yabo> i need to hack the makefile
Sep 28 19:35:20 <yabo> ???
Sep 28 19:36:22 <lindi-> yabo: nope
Sep 28 19:39:08 <yabo> qtopia doesnt have gcc..
Sep 28 19:39:36 <lindi-> can't help much :/
Sep 28 19:40:03 <yabo> i want to install debian on my sdcard
Sep 28 19:42:22 <yabo> soo
Sep 28 19:43:11 <yabo> to install debian i just download install.sh to the phone, and while connected to the internet i type ./install.sh all
Sep 28 19:43:13 <yabo> wait
Sep 28 19:43:15 <yabo> and im done?
Sep 28 19:43:33 <yabo> oh
Sep 28 19:43:39 <lindi-> yabo: have you used debian before?
Sep 28 19:43:43 <yabo> i need to make a fat-boot partition
Sep 28 19:43:45 <yabo> yeah
Sep 28 19:43:51 <yabo> not on the freerunner though
Sep 28 19:43:56 <yabo> on x86
Sep 28 19:44:08 <lindi-> you don't need to make separate boot partition
Sep 28 19:44:22 <yabo> SD_PART1_FS=vfat ./install.sh all
Sep 28 19:44:27 <yabo> instead of ./install.sh all
Sep 28 19:44:28 <yabo> ?
Sep 28 19:45:18 <aggtrfrad> just read the install.sh file and change it according to your needs
Sep 28 19:45:43 <aggtrfrad> and then make a u-boot entry that points to the kernel image
Sep 28 19:51:09 <TAsn> wow i got many magic bitmap not found errors  in recent fso image boot.
Sep 28 19:51:31 <TAsn> i just hope it's a first boot issue.
Sep 28 19:52:36 <aggtrfrad> how can i restart level at numpty physics?
Sep 28 19:53:53 <TAsn> aggtrfrad, no idea ;]
Sep 28 19:54:12 <TAsn> i also stumbled when it got to controlling numpty
Sep 28 19:54:40 <leinir> The r key, or arrow up... if you can pull up the keyboard :)
Sep 28 19:55:02 <TAsn> leinir, that's the issue.
Sep 28 19:55:20 <aggtrfrad> o ty
Sep 28 19:55:53 <aggtrfrad> i use fdom so it worked 
Sep 28 19:58:28 <TAsn> what's the latest build that works?
Sep 28 19:58:37 <TAsn> todays doesn't.
Sep 28 20:00:07 <TAsn> 24's image
Sep 28 20:03:29 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * r78d9f3c76eb7 10/ (ChangeLog framework/subsystems/ousaged/generic.py): ousaged: drop unneeded boolean result for RequestResource
Sep 28 20:25:36 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r66a8d95254ed 10/ (ChangeLog framework/subsystems/ogpsd/gpsdevice.py): 
Sep 28 20:25:36 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: ogpsd: Implement org.freedesktop.Gypsy.Device.{Start,Stop} methods
Sep 28 20:25:36 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: The Start and Stop methods now keep track of which dbus user started the
Sep 28 20:25:36 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: device and listens to the nameownerchanged signal, releasing the
Sep 28 20:25:37 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: resource if the last user is gone.
Sep 28 20:57:08 <TAsn> what does red aux led on mean in qtopia?
Sep 28 20:57:29 <Gnutoo> TAsn, mabe charging...
Sep 28 20:57:40 <TAsn> and if it's not plugged? ;]
Sep 28 20:57:47 <Gnutoo> TAsn, don't know
Sep 28 21:00:35 <lindi-> TAsn: read the source? ;)
Sep 28 21:00:42 <TAsn> lindi-, ;]
Sep 28 21:17:34 <adsllc> Anybody have any solutions for the missing usb0 on FDOM 20080927?
Sep 28 21:18:49 <aggtrfrad> its not missing for me :/
Sep 28 21:19:22 <aggtrfrad> do u use the latest OM uImage?
Sep 28 21:19:35 <adsllc> aggtrfrad: As of an hour ago.
Sep 28 21:19:50 <adsllc> aggtrfrad: Does lsmod give you anything?
Sep 28 21:20:15 <adsllc> I'm seeing the same thing as http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-September/031819.html - problem number 1.
Sep 28 21:20:27 <aggtrfrad> nothing, but sound and everything work
Sep 28 21:21:05 <aggtrfrad> only the bluetooth module is not loaded
Sep 28 21:21:23 <aggtrfrad> im using the Om2008.9 kernel
Sep 28 21:21:29 <aggtrfrad> not he latest unstable
Sep 28 21:22:09 <adsllc> Ah - great thinking - that's probably it.
Sep 28 21:22:25 <adsllc> I had updated my kernel but now essentially downgraded my modules.
Sep 28 21:26:41 <adsllc> aggtrfrad: Assuming this fixes it (and I think it will) - would you care to be famous and reply to the community list, or shall I?
Sep 28 21:27:52 <adsllc> aggtrfrad: yup, that did it, thanks!
Sep 28 21:27:58 <lesouvage> Both your names are to hard to remember to become famous ;-)
Sep 28 21:29:15 <aggtrfrad> HAHAHAH
Sep 28 21:29:44 <aggtrfrad> im out for work, bb
Sep 28 21:30:44 <adsllc> lesouvage: That's what they said to 129.42.18.103, but then it became ibm.com - there's still hope for me!
Sep 28 21:36:04 <lesouvage> adsllc: I think you mix up some time frames International Business Machines is around for a long long time, far before even the first thoughts about ARPA net were still in an uknown future.
Sep 28 21:37:29 <lesouvage> But I guess I understand your point: keep hoping, there are fixes imagenable that makes you famous overnight, dispite of your name.
Sep 28 21:42:03 <Mononoke> is it safe to add angstorm repo on 2008.9 ?
Sep 28 21:52:45 <slaxxin> so how hard would it be for software to shutdown the device when battery gets low  but not empty?
Sep 28 21:53:06 <slaxxin> plus leave a warning message
Sep 28 21:53:37 <lindi-> slaxxin: very easy
Sep 28 22:12:56 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r4c1fb8ed0380 10/ (4 files in 4 dirs): 
Sep 28 22:12:56 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: ogsmd.sms: Added support for advanced message features
Sep 28 22:12:56 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: This adds a parameter a{sv} to the DBus methods RetrieveMessage{,book}
Sep 28 22:12:56 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: and StoreMessage.
Sep 28 22:12:57 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: AbstractSMS now has a property featureMap that exposes the intersting
Sep 28 22:12:59 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: fields for the user.
Sep 28 22:17:27 <TAsn> does anyone know how to add utf8 support to qtopia?
Sep 28 22:21:16 <ljp> qtopia is already using unicode
Sep 28 22:23:17 <TAsn> ljp, so where can i add new fonts from? cause if it's not encoding issue it's probably font
Sep 28 22:23:25 <TAsn> *how can i add.
Sep 28 23:11:05 <johngay> http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&amp;STORY=/www/story/09-16-2008/0004885891&amp;EDATE=
Sep 28 23:11:15 <johngay>  I'm so glad that Wyse and Novell have finally brought thin-client capability to Linux.
Sep 28 23:11:15 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07zhone * r3c1077bbe49b 10/ (ChangeLog src/zhone): Support the new SMS API. Display timestamp if it exists
Sep 28 23:11:16 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07zhone * r54e535fc62a0 10/src/zhone: Whitespace fixes. Please don't uses tabs.
Sep 28 23:12:13 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r6b9d4ef88369 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/sms.py: ogsmd.sms: Return timezone as string for now
Sep 28 23:36:09 <jadams> rwhitby, what are you running on your gta01 now?
Sep 28 23:38:10 <raster> pants-os
Sep 28 23:40:24 <johngay> Hey raster.
Sep 28 23:40:51 <jadams> hey raster
Sep 28 23:40:56 <jadams> what's shaking?
Sep 28 23:44:29 <raster> johngay:  boo
Sep 28 23:44:44 <raster> jadams: fixng up my own illume image for FR
Sep 28 23:44:52 <raster> nice and minimal
Sep 28 23:45:01 <raster> definitely not complete... but at least e/illume look nice
Sep 28 23:45:35 <jadams> raster, great.  What are the odds that it'll work or be somehow workable on the gta01?  I just bought a T-Mobile G1 so it looks like gta03 will be my next openmoko device
Sep 28 23:45:42 <jadams> can't handle <EDGE
Sep 28 23:45:51 <raster> jadams:  hmmm good q
Sep 28 23:46:07 <jadams> raster, FSO3, etc. work fine on the gta01 fwiw
Sep 28 23:46:13 <raster> gta01... well it fits
Sep 28 23:46:14 <raster> its only 4m
Sep 28 23:46:16 <raster> err
Sep 28 23:46:17 <raster> 40m
Sep 28 23:46:20 <raster> right now
Sep 28 23:46:25 <raster> but it has zero phone stuff
Sep 28 23:46:32 <raster> its basically a pda minus any apps
Sep 28 23:46:37 <raster> i need to trim it down more
Sep 28 23:46:43 <jadams> I love fso
Sep 28 23:47:00 <raster>  36M openmoko-illume-image-glibc-ipk--20080928-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2.summary
Sep 28 23:47:02 <slaxxin> well ....stopit
Sep 28 23:47:04 <raster> actually 36m
Sep 28 23:47:12 <jadams> awesome
Sep 28 23:47:27 <raster> but i removed all the fso bits for now as frameworkd is really causing slowdowns
Sep 28 23:47:34 <jadams> ahh
Sep 28 23:47:40 <raster> it is quite fast
Sep 28 23:47:48 <raster> e starts in about 5 seconds
Sep 28 23:47:52 <slaxxin> yay
Sep 28 23:47:52 <Kensan> It seems that GTA01 flash IO is better than FR.
Sep 28 23:48:01 <raster> let me time it
Sep 28 23:48:02 <raster> ...
Sep 28 23:48:44 <slaxxin> everybody leave raster alone sos he can finish the os so we can have it:)
Sep 28 23:49:04 <raster> boot isnt that fast - i need to dig in and find out why
Sep 28 23:49:26 <raster> Kensan:  not surprising. fkash is really slow on fr
Sep 28 23:49:29 <Kensan> raster: Are you looking into FR boot time?
Sep 28 23:49:40 <slaxxin> how fast is that fast 14.5 seconds?
Sep 28 23:49:49 <raster> Kensan:  i'd like to
Sep 28 23:49:52 <raster> but io have so much to do
Sep 28 23:50:00 <Kensan> raster: I fiddled around with FR bootchart and tried some stuff but IO seems to be the limiting factor :(
Sep 28 23:50:10 <raster> btw
Sep 28 23:50:21 <raster> dont use ASU (2008.08/09) as a base for boto speed stuff
Sep 28 23:50:28 <raster> especially after it starts x
Sep 28 23:50:35 <raster> its a death zone there...
Sep 28 23:50:43 <Kensan> raster: I was using FSO MS3.
Sep 28 23:51:17 <Kensan> raster: May I ask why is it a death zone?
Sep 28 23:51:34 <slaxxin> sloooo
Sep 28 23:51:50 <raster> ok
Sep 28 23:52:09 <raster> from x start to e's init splash is 7 secons
Sep 28 23:52:21 <raster> wait no
Sep 28 23:52:26 <slaxxin> oo thats too sloo   lolololololo
Sep 28 23:52:31 <raster> 10 secon x -> e init splash up
Sep 28 23:52:34 <Kensan> raster: I recently flashed a daily build of 2008.9 (or whatever it's called) on my GTA01 and it felt way faster than on the FR.
Sep 28 23:52:38 <raster> 7 secon for init splash to fully working desktop
Sep 28 23:52:55 <slaxxin> whammin jammin
Sep 28 23:53:11 <raster> Kensan:  ooh fso
Sep 28 23:53:13 <raster> dont know
Sep 28 23:53:14 <johngay> What do you think of the G1?
Sep 28 23:53:15 <raster> but it runs qpe
Sep 28 23:53:19 <slaxxin> is it based on   debian  or what?
Sep 28 23:53:26 <raster> whihc in teurn chews cpu and runs tonnes of things
Sep 28 23:53:36 <raster> also python exposure (appl-launcher) back end started
Sep 28 23:53:47 <raster> in fact so many thnigs competing for cpu at the same time it slows it all down
Sep 28 23:53:56 <raster> and yes
Sep 28 23:53:58 <raster> IO is limiting
Sep 28 23:53:59 <raster> very
Sep 28 23:54:05 <Kensan> raster: it does take a long time (40 seconds) from X to "responsive" Zhone in FSO.
Sep 28 23:54:23 <raster> the initial start of exquisite (gfx bootloader) is about 6 seconds just due to IO in searching for dynamic libs
Sep 28 23:54:33 <raster> of course4 it'd be faster if it linked to fewer libs
Sep 28 23:54:42 <raster> but its sharing the same libs that the rest of e/efl use
Sep 28 23:54:47 <raster> thus shares the same runtime linkage
Sep 28 23:54:55 <raster> (ie linkign to all the x libs even tho it runs in fb)
Sep 28 23:55:15 <raster> Kensan:  for me its about 17 seconds
Sep 28 23:55:19 <raster> on my illume image
Sep 28 23:55:31 <Kensan> raster: would you know why uboot takes ~7 seconds to get the kernel going? Is that to be expected?
Sep 28 23:55:36 <raster> the first 10 second blank is e starting and launching its own init pslash
Sep 28 23:55:37 <Kensan> raster: sounds much better.
Sep 28 23:55:46 <raster> e has its own "boot profiling" built in
Sep 28 23:55:51 <raster> its always spewing out debug info for it
Sep 28 23:56:03 <raster> i do keep track of where e's cycles go on start up
Sep 28 23:56:10 <raster> thouigh as u said - its almost entirely IO limited
Sep 28 23:56:22 <raster> there is very little i can do about that except somehow reduce IO
Sep 28 23:56:40 <raster> and that really only will happen by removign features or reducing theme complexity/prettyness
Sep 28 23:56:42 <Kensan> raster: interesting. I focused a bit more on "init" since kernel bootup seems fairly ok compared to init and X+apps startup time...
Sep 28 23:56:50 <raster> or not following standards (eg FDO XDG .desktop etc.)
Sep 28 23:57:26 <raster> actually kernel is pretty damn slow just to launch init
Sep 28 23:57:35 <raster> i think its in the area of about 10 seconds just there
Sep 28 23:58:00 <raster> (on a desktop lilo/grub -> init can be gotten down to 0.2 sec or so)
Sep 28 23:58:03 <Kensan> raster: seems like all apps should somehow implement some clever caching...
Sep 28 23:58:21 <raster> boot time before init runs the rc5.d/* scritps is slow too
Sep 28 23:58:34 <Kensan> raster: true, but uboot+kernel take 17 seconds while the rest goes on for another 2:10 minutes...
Sep 28 23:58:38 <raster> about 10 seconds
Sep 28 23:59:07 <raster> about 20 sec then in the initscripts (starting dbus, etc. ie the rc5.d entires)
Sep 28 23:59:16 <slaxxin> thats alot of improvment
Sep 28 23:59:36 <raster> hmm
Sep 28 23:59:37 <raster> true
Sep 28 23:59:46 <raster> tho on my image x+e is not so much
Sep 28 23:59:48 <raster> as i said
Sep 28 23:59:50 <raster> 17 seconds
Sep 29 00:00:00 <raster> for all of e (as it is pretty much the entire desktop)
Sep 29 00:00:16 <Kensan> raster: yes then the ratio is different. I only experimented with FSO MS3.
Sep 29 00:00:23 <raster> sure
Sep 29 00:00:29 <raster> python stuff is pretyt hefty tostart
Sep 29 00:00:31 <raster> i think
Sep 29 00:00:46 <Kensan> raster: indeed.
Sep 29 00:01:20 <Kensan> raster: would you have an image somewhere, which I could/should use for further boottime "improvement" stuff?
Sep 29 00:02:05 <raster> ummm
Sep 29 00:02:12 <raster> if u are happy that it violates gpl...
Sep 29 00:02:18 <slaxxin> working on it right now
Sep 29 00:03:15 <raster> jadams:  btw - tell us about the g1...
Sep 29 00:03:26 <Kensan> raster: what do you mean, I don't follow...
Sep 29 00:03:33 <raster> Kensan:  i can give u an image
Sep 29 00:03:48 <raster> but fucked if i will supply you with a written offer to suply all sources
Sep 29 00:03:54 <raster> or send you all sources of all gpl stuffon the image
Sep 29 00:04:38 <johngay> Don't listen to every troll, raster.
Sep 29 00:04:39 <Kensan> raster: *heh* I see. Well I would simply install bootchart and try tweaking the kernel+init stuff.
Sep 29 00:04:47 <raster> (if u can accept that i built it from OE and asll my gpl source is upstream as per OE builds and you can get it oyurself and that i havent patched any gpl/lgpl stuff and taken it verbatim as OE gives it to me)
Sep 29 00:05:10 <raster> i hbasically am no0t going to upload 400mhb of sources every time i do a new image
Sep 29 00:05:13 <raster> 400mb
Sep 29 00:05:31 <Kensan> raster: well pragmatism wins in this case I believe.
Sep 29 00:05:32 <raster> i have bandwidth caps in .au
Sep 29 00:05:36 <raster> max fer per month
Sep 29 00:05:38 <johngay> You don't need to, unless you've patches 400mb of stuff.
Sep 29 00:05:42 <raster> max xfer
Sep 29 00:05:55 <raster> johngay:  rwhitby is right.
Sep 29 00:05:59 <raster> you DO technically need to
Sep 29 00:06:04 <raster> gpl requires it
Sep 29 00:06:07 <raster> patches or not
Sep 29 00:06:15 <raster> its a STUPID bit of the gpl
Sep 29 00:06:19 <raster> for hobbyists like us
Sep 29 00:06:29 <raster> who just build form upstream using a "Well known build system"
Sep 29 00:06:37 <raster> and we all have access and use the same upstream source
Sep 29 00:06:44 <johngay> Only if you've modified it.
Sep 29 00:06:44 <raster> but gpl does not account for that
Sep 29 00:06:47 <raster> no
Sep 29 00:06:51 <raster> it doesnt say that
Sep 29 00:06:51 <Kensan> raster: I thought you were in Japan. Cheap bandwidth there, at least in the cities.
Sep 29 00:06:59 <raster> Kensan:  nah - back in .au
Sep 29 00:07:18 <raster> johngay:  gpl has no exception for "if u didnt modify it"
Sep 29 00:07:36 <jadams> raster, I won't have the G1 until October 22.
Sep 29 00:07:39 <raster> u either must provide a written offer to provide the source "at cost of distributing it"
Sep 29 00:07:46 <raster> or offer the exact soruces u used to build
Sep 29 00:07:49 <jadams> raster, but I will certainly update anyone who wishes me too when it comes in
Sep 29 00:07:49 <raster> patched or not
Sep 29 00:07:59 <raster> jadams:  aaah
Sep 29 00:08:18 <raster> Kensan: but i can get u an image. i'm just fixing up my exquisite theme right now
Sep 29 00:08:22 <raster> to be a bit prettier
Sep 29 00:08:27 <jadams> raster, and I live in Birmingham, AL USA.  There's no 3G here until later this year, so I'll be on edge at first
Sep 29 00:08:32 <raster> and i want to get rid of the orange openmoko splash image x uses
Sep 29 00:08:45 <Kensan> raster: oh cool! I don't need pretty, I just need ssh...
Sep 29 00:08:48 <Kensan> ;)
Sep 29 00:09:04 <raster> jadams: was hoping u'd have found out if u can ssh in yet and fuck around with the base os, get a new kernel on etc.
Sep 29 00:09:19 <jadams> raster, yeah, can guarantee that'll be one of the first things I do
Sep 29 00:09:24 <raster> Kensan: let me make it pretty... in fact it matters as these are things that load data files
Sep 29 00:09:26 <raster> thus impact io
Sep 29 00:09:36 <raster> so having them in a different confi affects bootchart stuff
Sep 29 00:09:52 <johngay> the FSF has a basic tutorial for GPL. Check it out.
Sep 29 00:09:57 <raster> jadams:  if the g1 is hackable to the point oif getting all its (major) hardware working
Sep 29 00:09:58 <Kensan> raster: just read about the Swisscom thing on laforges blog. Can you disclose any info on what kind of project they are doing?
Sep 29 00:10:04 <raster> it may be a good platform
Sep 29 00:10:34 <raster> Kensan:  cat's out of the bag now. yes.
Sep 29 00:10:35 <jadams> raster, assuming it were, does that mean one could easily run openmoko with 3G data / wifi?
Sep 29 00:10:43 <raster> Kensan:  simple efl based tooklit for mobile stuff
Sep 29 00:11:09 <raster> Kensan: in fact the image i build has the demo app i wrote (the alarm one). also has the widget set test/demo app too
Sep 29 00:11:21 <raster> jadams:  i guess you could
Sep 29 00:11:27 <raster> jadams:  "Assuming"
Sep 29 00:12:11 <Kensan> raster: nice. I am psyched about the news, since I saw the Swisscom guys at Openexpo (here in Switzerland) last week and I was quite surprised to see mokos at their "booth".
Sep 29 00:12:29 <Kensan> raster: Swisscom is big here in switzerland.
Sep 29 00:12:41 <jadams> raster, have you uploaded any screens of the alarm app to scap?
Sep 29 00:13:18 <raster> Kensan:  aaah. you're in .ch too
Sep 29 00:13:37 <Kensan> raster: yes, that's why I am asking about the nitty gritty details ;)
Sep 29 00:13:43 <raster> jadams: http://www.rasterman.com/files/illume-01.ogg
Sep 29 00:13:46 <raster> jadams: http://www.rasterman.com/files/illume-02.ogg
Sep 29 00:13:48 <raster> jadams: http://www.rasterman.com/files/illume-03.ogg
Sep 29 00:13:50 <raster> jadams: http://www.rasterman.com/files/illume-04.ogg
Sep 29 00:13:57 <jadams> raster: awesome
Sep 29 00:14:18 <raster> (note running on my desktop, not on om - buyt pretending to have the dpi of the fr in 01 - 02, 03, 04 are differetn screen res/dpi's)
Sep 29 00:14:22 <raster> the alarm app is white
Sep 29 00:14:27 <raster> not the brown/round clock test app
Sep 29 00:14:52 <raster> its simple
Sep 29 00:14:54 <raster> but works
Sep 29 00:14:58 <raster> its mroe a demo of the widget set
Sep 29 00:15:02 <raster> its a very small app
Sep 29 00:15:09 <Kensan> raster: Would you know anything about the "crypto and security related bits" that Harald mentioned in his blog?
Sep 29 00:15:21 <raster> the vast majority off it si simple "Create widget, set its parameters, pack it into a parent"
Sep 29 00:15:24 <jadams> raster, wow, keyboard-zoom never went so fast on fso
Sep 29 00:15:27 <jadams> oh, nm
Sep 29 00:15:28 <jadams> :)
Sep 29 00:15:31 <raster> Kensan:  no idea about them :(
Sep 29 00:15:45 <raster> jadams: oh trust me.. it actually is pretty good on my illume umage on my fr
Sep 29 00:16:02 <Kensan> raster: ok, I will see if "my other contacts" know something :)
Sep 29 00:16:08 <raster> not as good as there
Sep 29 00:16:11 <raster> but very usably nice
Sep 29 00:16:14 <raster> also note
Sep 29 00:16:16 <raster> fdo has problems
Sep 29 00:16:35 <raster> if u move/drag your figner 50% of your cpu is being eaten by frameworkd just "listening" to touchscreen events
Sep 29 00:16:40 <raster> kill frameworkd and it'll be faster
Sep 29 00:16:41 <raster> :)
Sep 29 00:17:03 <raster> the alarm app is the one with the "flipping" numbers
Sep 29 00:17:14 <Kensan> raster: wow, 50%? that's heavy.
Sep 29 00:17:29 <raster> Kensan:  if u can wait a little - i alreayd did the artwork for new boot stuff. let me just get it into a theme and slap it on and built an image
Sep 29 00:17:37 <raster> kenb if u absolutely can't wait.. i'll upload
Sep 29 00:17:46 <raster> Kensan:  and yes. 50%... it's python. not surprising
Sep 29 00:18:04 <Kensan> raster: well it's quite late here. How long is "a little" ? ;)
Sep 29 00:18:21 <raster> lastr time i benchmarked python vs c, python was about 280 times slower.
Sep 29 00:18:27 <raster> Kensan:  maybe 30 mins...
Sep 29 00:18:37 <raster> actually no
Sep 29 00:18:42 <raster> i'd need to buil,d flash, test first
Sep 29 00:19:09 <Kensan> raster: "torvalds-tested" (tm) aka. compile-tested ;)
Sep 29 00:19:50 <Kensan> raster: either way, I think I should catch some sleep.
Sep 29 00:20:49 <raster> hahaha
Sep 29 00:20:52 <raster> wait
Sep 29 00:20:53 <raster> uploading
Sep 29 00:21:16 <raster> 30 mins
Sep 29 00:21:18 <raster> err
Sep 29 00:21:21 <raster> 4mins
Sep 29 00:21:23 <raster> i mean
Sep 29 00:21:54 <Kensan> raster: how did you speed that up? :)
Sep 29 00:21:55 <sicu> raster: is your new splash in one of the oggs ?
Sep 29 00:22:01 <raster> Kensan:  i just didnt fix it
Sep 29 00:22:04 <raster> u get it "as is"
Sep 29 00:22:08 <raster> as i built last night and tested
Sep 29 00:22:08 <Kensan> raster: ah ok :)
Sep 29 00:22:14 <raster> sicu:  no.
Sep 29 00:22:46 <Kensan> raster: well there's no need to hurry, since I won't be doing any bootcharting tonight :)
Sep 29 00:23:17 <niklauz> hi, anyone know if there is work or effort toward making images selectable on boot?
Sep 29 00:23:33 <sicu> raster: ok ... btw, i love what you've done with layout and graphics in the ogg files =]
Sep 29 00:24:18 <jadams> raster, that phone interface is orders of magnitude nicer than what ships in om
Sep 29 00:24:25 <jadams> raster, very, very well done
Sep 29 00:25:26 <raster> kennyz[dnd]:  aaah ok
Sep 29 00:25:28 <niklauz> pics?
Sep 29 00:25:52 <raster> niklauz:  how do u propose to store multiple ones - other than on sd
Sep 29 00:25:54 <raster> ?
Sep 29 00:26:02 <niklauz> only on sd
Sep 29 00:26:05 <raster> whihc (imho) is not the ultimate goal of an image
Sep 29 00:26:10 <raster> (its goal is to live on flash)
Sep 29 00:26:30 <raster> sicu: thats just illume+e.. just with a theme that is nice
Sep 29 00:26:31 <raster> :)
Sep 29 00:26:47 <raster> http://download.enlightenment.org/misc/Illume/
Sep 29 00:26:48 <raster> there
Sep 29 00:26:55 <raster> kernel + rootfs
Sep 29 00:27:02 <raster> NOT FULLY BAKED
Sep 29 00:27:04 <raster> but boots
Sep 29 00:27:05 <raster> and runs
Sep 29 00:27:14 <raster> has a terminal, screenshot and alarm app
Sep 29 00:27:15 <raster> thats it
Sep 29 00:27:19 <Kensan> raster: Do you think there's still potential to speed up the Flash access on FR?
Sep 29 00:27:30 <niklauz> raster: multi-boot option is a bad idea?
Sep 29 00:27:35 <raster> botosplash is not final - botsplahs si simply the raw default exquisite ships with
Sep 29 00:27:52 <raster> Kensan:  i think so - yes. it should be maybe 2x as fast
Sep 29 00:28:00 <raster> niklauz: for a phone.. yes
Sep 29 00:28:04 <raster> as u dont want to be "booting"
Sep 29 00:28:08 <raster> u want to just boot and stay on
Sep 29 00:28:09 <niklauz> hehe
Sep 29 00:28:13 <raster> and nevrr shut down
Sep 29 00:28:19 <niklauz> raster: you make good points
Sep 29 00:28:28 <raster> always suspend/resume
Sep 29 00:28:33 <raster> or go into zero clock and save power
Sep 29 00:28:36 <raster> but stay the hell up
Sep 29 00:29:04 <Kensan> raster: hm ic. So that means that the driver could be improved (somehow)?
Sep 29 00:29:08 <raster> at worst u reboot when an upgrade requires restarting base system servicews (u can restart them on the fly too - but often its just simpler to do it windows-style..)
Sep 29 00:29:16 <raster> Kensan:  i thnk so
Sep 29 00:29:20 <niklauz> still as a 'device' it is fun and encourages experimentation, for example switch from phone to router on demand
Sep 29 00:29:35 <Kensan> raster: ok, thanks for the info. There's still hope... :)
Sep 29 00:29:36 <raster> Kensan: for example it's doing ecc in software, not hardware
Sep 29 00:29:40 <niklauz> or to try out an images new features
Sep 29 00:29:40 <ceda> raster: I though you lived in Germany?
Sep 29 00:29:48 <raster> ceda:  why did u think that? :)
Sep 29 00:30:12 <raster> i havent lived in germany for... almost 29 years
Sep 29 00:30:15 <Kensan> raster: eventhough it could do it in hardware?
Sep 29 00:30:22 <ceda> well, I guess I've mixed you up with some other guy :)
Sep 29 00:30:31 <raster> Kensan:  yes. and possibly other flash io mode improvements too
Sep 29 00:30:42 <ceda> time to sleep anyway
Sep 29 00:30:45 <raster> maybe check to see if you do zero-copy
Sep 29 00:30:49 <Kensan> raster: well for how long have you not been living in Japan then? Just so I know how far off *I* was :)
Sep 29 00:31:05 <raster> ie when u uncompress a jffs2 block - do u uncompres sdirectly into the userspace page
Sep 29 00:31:09 <raster> or is there an extra copy
Sep 29 00:31:25 <raster> also some files (.edj. jpg, png) files could be fixed
Sep 29 00:31:32 <raster> jffs2 will not manage any useful comrpession on them
Sep 29 00:31:35 <raster> ever
Sep 29 00:31:35 <Kensan> raster: oh so there's still some things that should be looked into.
Sep 29 00:31:39 <raster> its a waste of cycles
Sep 29 00:32:00 <raster> so jffs2 needs a way to flag files (bigen maybe a glob pattter?) to "dont bother compressing these ones"
Sep 29 00:32:11 <raster> ceda:  :)
Sep 29 00:32:13 <Kensan> raster: hm... ic. Do you know if anybody at OM is looking into that?
Sep 29 00:32:36 <raster> niklauz: sure - but why not just have your 1 os do all those tasks?
Sep 29 00:32:42 <raster> just have different daemons running..
Sep 29 00:32:54 <raster> its got enough ram and even cpu to do most of these
Sep 29 00:33:01 <raster> most cpu is eaten up in wait cycles for the glamo
Sep 29 00:33:13 <raster> and well efl likes ot munch cpu cycles for gfx rendering...
Sep 29 00:33:14 <raster> :)
Sep 29 00:33:23 <raster> Kensan:  as best i know - they arent
Sep 29 00:33:23 <Kensan> raster: hehe
Sep 29 00:33:29 <raster> but i dont work @ om... anymore :)
Sep 29 00:33:38 <raster> but i do know htings that could help
Sep 29 00:33:48 <raster> other than that - removing all sorts of stupid stuff from boot
Sep 29 00:33:52 <Kensan> raster: ugh :( Yeah, I read that on your site.
Sep 29 00:33:53 <raster> ie in general from OE
Sep 29 00:33:57 <raster> and OE's linux setup
Sep 29 00:33:59 <raster> technically
Sep 29 00:34:05 <raster> when exquisite's boot splash is up
Sep 29 00:34:07 <niklauz> i suppose, i like the idea of trying out new efforts for comparison, to do this 'on-the-fly' would be incredibly awesome to me
Sep 29 00:34:10 <raster> that is when x COULD be up
Sep 29 00:34:12 <niklauz> u don't think so?
Sep 29 00:34:14 <Kensan> raster: (ugh for the "nobody at om looking into glamo") ;)
Sep 29 00:34:15 <raster> it doesnt need to be delayed so long
Sep 29 00:34:26 <raster> Kensan:  frankly - glamo isnt worht it
Sep 29 00:34:29 <raster> its an EOL chip
Sep 29 00:34:32 <raster> it has no future :(
Sep 29 00:34:39 <Kensan> raster: great :(
Sep 29 00:34:53 <niklauz> similar to the enjoyment between bouncing between fedora, ubuntu, etc
Sep 29 00:34:59 <CIA-22> openmoko: 03werner * r4679 10/developers/werner/ahrt/host/tmc/ (demo/eye.py lib/phosphor.py lib/trigger.py lib/wave.py): (log message trimmed)
Sep 29 00:34:59 <CIA-22> openmoko: Highlights:
Sep 29 00:34:59 <CIA-22> openmoko: - new module phosphor.py to view how often patterns repeat
Sep 29 00:34:59 <CIA-22> openmoko: - example eye.py to plot an eye diagram with phosphor.py
Sep 29 00:34:59 <CIA-22> openmoko: Details:
Sep 29 00:35:03 <raster> niklauz:  just back-up your excisting flash
Sep 29 00:35:03 <CIA-22> openmoko: - lib/wave.py (analog, digital): moved binary search by time from "get_one"
Sep 29 00:35:05 <Kensan> raster: I guess the same goes for the TI Calypso...
Sep 29 00:35:05 <CIA-22> openmoko:  into new method "index"
Sep 29 00:35:05 <raster> flash new image
Sep 29 00:35:12 <raster> try - dont like, restore old flash
Sep 29 00:35:13 <raster> :)
Sep 29 00:35:21 <raster> Kensan:  correct.
Sep 29 00:35:33 <niklauz> raster: i know :) i'm just daydreaming about showing it to geek friends lol
Sep 29 00:35:34 <raster> Kensan: as such glamos' acceleration is abut at the level of most desktop xservers
Sep 29 00:35:40 <raster> ie blit, fill, xvideo.
Sep 29 00:35:46 <raster> it has some bugs in sv for sure
Sep 29 00:35:59 <raster> but mostly its biggest bottleneck is bus bandwidth
Sep 29 00:36:04 <raster> it can accelerate a bit more
Sep 29 00:36:09 <raster> but not enough to be "worth it"
Sep 29 00:36:16 <raster> opengles is the only other thing
Sep 29 00:36:20 <raster> and that coems with caveats
Sep 29 00:36:28 <Kensan> raster: that's what I figured... it's really a pitty since IO is so crucial to overal performance.
Sep 29 00:36:46 <raster> (256x256 texture size max, no render-to-texture, qvga output - which is broken in xglamo anyway) etc.
Sep 29 00:36:54 <raster> by the time all the basics are fixed
Sep 29 00:37:10 <raster> (rotation and qvga mode with touchsrceen, other basic xvideo bugs and slowdowns)
Sep 29 00:37:21 <raster> freerunenr is an obsolete piece of hardwre and glamo will never be seen again
Sep 29 00:37:38 <raster> so all the effort u did isnt goign to live beyond a product that now is not manufacturered anymore :(
Sep 29 00:37:48 <raster> that is the problem - its a matter of weighing up effort vs gain
Sep 29 00:38:07 <Kensan> raster: ok so my motivation to look at the glamo driver is close to 0 now.
Sep 29 00:38:15 <raster> i know that i'd focus on work that will live many years into the future
Sep 29 00:38:25 <raster> so eg hardware i know will have compatible successors
Sep 29 00:38:33 <raster> or stuff that isnt dependant on specific hardware
Sep 29 00:38:46 <Kensan> raster: yes, that sounds reasonable.
Sep 29 00:38:54 <raster> i know i was exciteed about the lgamo.. until i read all of its specs
Sep 29 00:39:02 <raster> and i know the community is still "Excitied"
Sep 29 00:39:10 <raster> all the people "Excited" havent read the details
Sep 29 00:39:12 <raster> ask dodji
Sep 29 00:39:14 <raster> or me
Sep 29 00:39:29 <raster> excitement dropped to "non existant" after actually getting all the details
Sep 29 00:39:33 <Kensan> raster: they have not read your various mails on the mailinglists :)
Sep 29 00:39:51 <raster> *IF* this was like the ps2
Sep 29 00:39:52 <raster> or ps1
Sep 29 00:39:53 <raster> or psp
Sep 29 00:39:56 <raster> or amiga
Sep 29 00:39:57 <raster> etc.
Sep 29 00:40:04 <raster> this hardware would live for the next 5 or 10 years
Sep 29 00:40:07 <raster> and be produced
Sep 29 00:40:14 <raster> and thus it is worth squeezing every last cycle out of it
Sep 29 00:40:25 <iscape> who did then made the decision to get the glamo in?
Sep 29 00:40:26 <raster> and on these platforms it takes years of hard-core hackers
Sep 29 00:40:39 <raster> game engine coders - who know their shit when it comes to twisted and bizarre hardware
Sep 29 00:40:52 <raster> to imaginatively code SPECIFICALLY for that hardware and max out its potential
Sep 29 00:40:52 <Kensan> raster: hm ok, so if I may be so frank to ask: what would you consider worthwhile to try and fix which would have a fair amount of impact on the devices performance?
Sep 29 00:41:07 <raster> if u designed guis specifically to do only what glamo could do
Sep 29 00:41:09 <raster> it'd be better
Sep 29 00:41:11 <iscape> openmoko is very often quite opaque in its decisions...
Sep 29 00:41:16 <raster> but u'd be designing for.. a dead platform
Sep 29 00:41:24 <raster> it'd take years to really squeeze the best out of it
Sep 29 00:41:34 <raster> and everythign u did would be irrelevant for any future platforms
Sep 29 00:41:35 <raster> :(
Sep 29 00:41:56 <raster> Kensan:  fix. i'd look at leaning down the boot
Sep 29 00:42:10 <Kensan> raster: if I am not mistaken, that's what's beggining to happen with the PS3: dev teams starting to code "for" the PS3 and actually using it's specifics.
Sep 29 00:42:13 <raster> Kensan:  get x up as early as possible and start up any other services in the backgroudn later with a delay
Sep 29 00:42:18 <raster> eg dropbear
Sep 29 00:42:25 <raster> that could easily be delayed by 60 seconds
Sep 29 00:42:29 <raster> and started long after gui is up
Sep 29 00:42:31 <iscape> well, there are a couple of companies working on a linux samrtphone...
Sep 29 00:42:31 <iscape> smartphone
Sep 29 00:42:35 <Kensan> raster: well that's what I figured since I am not really the UI guy...
Sep 29 00:42:39 <raster> (a debug mode to start it early if u like)
Sep 29 00:42:52 <raster> i'd look at removing as much shell script logic and file io stuff form scripts
Sep 29 00:42:58 <raster> eg using files to do things
Sep 29 00:42:59 <raster> eg
Sep 29 00:43:08 <raster> if [ -f /path/to/file ] then 
Sep 29 00:43:08 <raster> ...
Sep 29 00:43:19 <raster> all the sourcing of function headers
Sep 29 00:43:22 <raster> running unix commands
Sep 29 00:43:30 <raster> (find, cat, sed, grep, etc.) during boot
Sep 29 00:43:42 <Kensan> raster: well a lot of stuff that's done dynamically (e.g. udev) could be done statically
Sep 29 00:43:47 <raster> nuke the boot down to only bare bones needed to get the ui up
Sep 29 00:43:50 <raster> ie device nodes
Sep 29 00:43:51 <raster> dbus
Sep 29 00:43:53 <Kensan> raster: dynamically at boot time.
Sep 29 00:43:53 <raster> x
Sep 29 00:43:55 <raster> thats it
Sep 29 00:44:05 <raster> then get ui up asap
Sep 29 00:44:09 <raster> (Thats what users notice the most)
Sep 29 00:44:25 <raster> all of this work will be applicable to all hardware platforms
Sep 29 00:44:27 <raster> and help everything
Sep 29 00:44:33 <Kensan> raster: true.
Sep 29 00:44:35 <raster> its a "non-wasted effort"
Sep 29 00:45:13 <raster> wil applye to gta01, gta02, gta03/4, to anytning else oe/om runs on
Sep 29 00:45:20 <Kensan> raster: well thanks a bunch for the, dare I say, enlightening conversation *heh*
Sep 29 00:45:25 <Kensan> raster: gotta catch some sleep.
Sep 29 00:45:32 <raster> (eg that jffs2 image i built - try it. its boot isnt that slow) i also build for my zaurus
Sep 29 00:45:43 <raster> and i will build it for my treo650 when it arrives.
Sep 29 00:45:44 <raster> :)
Sep 29 00:46:01 <Kensan> raster: you mean the one from download.enlightenment.org, right?
Sep 29 00:46:07 <raster> yes
Sep 29 00:46:15 <raster> i have it flashed on my z too
Sep 29 00:46:25 <raster> i was going to build one for my n800 too
Sep 29 00:46:30 <raster> but seems i need to fix xomap...
Sep 29 00:46:31 <Kensan> raster: ok will do.
Sep 29 00:46:59 <Kensan> raster: once I get some time that is :(
Sep 29 00:47:18 <raster> :(
Sep 29 00:47:20 <raster> thats always the problem
Sep 29 00:47:22 <raster> time...
Sep 29 00:47:36 <Kensan> raster: well I imagine it's worse for you so I shouldn't complain.
Sep 29 00:47:42 <raster> i'm doing this image so i have a clean pristine image to run things on for swisscom
Sep 29 00:47:56 <raster> so i guess i have some time
Sep 29 00:48:09 <raster> i'm a bit of a perfectionist - so if i have an image.. ithas to at least look right
Sep 29 00:48:10 <raster> :)
Sep 29 00:48:17 <Kensan> raster: I will try to figure out some details about this secret Swisscom project :)
Sep 29 00:48:17 <raster> but if u want to dig into boot stuff
Sep 29 00:48:22 <raster> definitely fixing up all the boot scripts
Sep 29 00:48:26 <raster> takew this as a goal
Sep 29 00:48:30 <raster> this is not a freerunner
Sep 29 00:48:33 <raster> it was a laptop
Sep 29 00:48:40 <raster> 1.5ghz celeron
Sep 29 00:48:41 <ljp> telepathy not included in package feeds?
Sep 29 00:49:09 <Kensan> raster: what do you mean by" it was a laptop"?
Sep 29 00:49:09 <raster> got linux to boot from lilo to x11, with opengl gui in 1.6 seconds
Sep 29 00:49:19 <raster> well its not a "slow arm"
Sep 29 00:49:19 <Kensan> raster: ah ok ic.
Sep 29 00:49:23 <raster> its booting off a hdd
Sep 29 00:49:40 <raster> but 1.6 seconds from bios -> x + gui
Sep 29 00:49:57 <Kensan> raster: aha, so you are setting the mark whilst making me look ridiculous in the future.
Sep 29 00:49:59 <raster> a handicap of having a hdd, but a faster cpu (and memory bus)
Sep 29 00:50:11 <raster> hehee
Sep 29 00:50:13 <raster> nah
Sep 29 00:50:16 <raster> u wont manage that
Sep 29 00:50:17 <raster> i know
Sep 29 00:50:40 <raster> but i believe (imho) 10-15 sec boot all the way to full usabel gui is possible
Sep 29 00:51:41 <raster> maybe 20sec on the outside
Sep 29 00:51:48 <Kensan> raster: heh well speeding up boot time was one of my small projects and with all the additional arguments you provided I really believe it is a worthwile goal. 
Sep 29 00:52:02 <raster> it is definitely worthwhile
Sep 29 00:52:11 <raster> i think some general jffs2 work
Sep 29 00:52:26 <raster> like being able to have specific files not compressed wil lhelp
Sep 29 00:52:27 <Kensan> raster: many people disagree ("You only boot once, then you use suspend/resume").
Sep 29 00:52:33 <raster> other stuff like improved jffs2 mount time
Sep 29 00:52:42 <johngay> What about RIP code?
Sep 29 00:52:49 <raster> Kensan:  sure. its a "firts impression" though
Sep 29 00:53:00 <Kensan> raster: indeed.
Sep 29 00:53:00 <raster> first impressions matter.
Sep 29 00:53:06 <Kensan> raster: exactly
Sep 29 00:53:14 <raster> and thats why i'd focus on things that also benefit general runtime too
Sep 29 00:53:22 <raster> boto itself is just stupidlyt heavy/slow
Sep 29 00:53:28 <raster> its simple to lean it down
Sep 29 00:53:33 <Kensan> raster: were other FS considered at the time?
Sep 29 00:53:37 <raster> u could probably halve the time
Sep 29 00:53:46 <raster> hmm really not many other options
Sep 29 00:53:52 <raster> yaffs i guess
Sep 29 00:54:08 <raster> kernel could also move much more into modules
Sep 29 00:54:22 <raster> anything it doesnt absolutely need for boot
Sep 29 00:54:26 <Kensan> raster: well while fiddling around with FSO MS3 I got -20 secs or so but the overall boot time was still > 2:20 so it was still no use...
Sep 29 00:54:32 <raster> (audio, wifi, etc.)
Sep 29 00:54:39 <raster> (sd card io etc.)
Sep 29 00:54:54 <Kensan> raster: I believe, that's what andy is doing if I read the kernel ML right...
Sep 29 00:55:23 <raster> aaah at last
Sep 29 00:55:24 <Kensan> raster: well there's some new Flash FS around the block in the kernel so it might be worth to reconsider...
Sep 29 00:55:33 <raster> i rememebr suggesting it ages ago and getting resistance
Sep 29 00:55:40 <raster> yeah
Sep 29 00:55:46 <raster> some new flash fs might be worth a look
Sep 29 00:55:51 <raster> though io is just generally abysmal
Sep 29 00:55:59 <raster> i clock about 2mb/sec from flash
Sep 29 00:56:02 <raster> (reads)
Sep 29 00:56:07 <raster> whihc is.. pretty atrocious
Sep 29 00:56:34 <raster> from "built in on-chip flash) i would have "expected" at least 5-10m/sec
Sep 29 00:57:26 <Kensan> raster: yeah. If I am not mistaken, the microSD shares the same bandwidth issues, since it is run by the glamo, right?
Sep 29 00:57:47 <raster> flash isnt run by glamo
Sep 29 00:57:50 <raster> so its different
Sep 29 00:58:09 <Kensan> raster: ah really? so it's actually the flash that is slow?
Sep 29 00:58:18 <raster> flash and driver
Sep 29 00:58:29 <raster> u cant blame glamo for flash io speed here
Sep 29 00:58:38 <raster> glamo is getting a free pass on this one
Sep 29 00:58:41 <raster> :)
Sep 29 00:58:47 <Kensan> raster: well that's what I used to, but this keeps getting better...
Sep 29 00:59:09 <raster> the 2442 does flash
Sep 29 00:59:13 <raster> it has hardware-ecc
Sep 29 00:59:35 <raster> but its ecc algorithm disagrees with uboot's so when flashing it'll fail
Sep 29 00:59:50 <Kensan> raster: that's what you get for not RTFM... Luckily everybody is very nice tonight...
Sep 29 01:00:12 <Kensan> raster: ah I read something about that on the om-kernel ML
Sep 29 01:00:21 <raster> as such uboot is not aware of hw ecc
Sep 29 01:00:28 <raster> if u used hw ecc when writing (flashing) from uboot
Sep 29 01:00:30 <Kensan> raster: I guess I need to reread, didn't pay much attention at the time,
Sep 29 01:00:34 <raster> it'd probably work
Sep 29 01:00:49 <raster> werner guesses a 2x speedup is possible
Sep 29 01:01:05 <Kensan> raster: so uboot would need support for 2442's hw ecc 
Sep 29 01:01:21 <raster> combine that with a better jffs2 mount process and runtime not compressing files that are not worth compressing
Sep 29 01:01:24 <raster> :)
Sep 29 01:01:31 <raster> yeah
Sep 29 01:01:34 <Kensan> raster: 0_o
Sep 29 01:01:38 <raster> there is support in the kernel driver
Sep 29 01:01:40 <raster> but disabled
Sep 29 01:01:56 <Kensan> raster: hm kay.
Sep 29 01:02:18 <raster> sometimes i think i know way too many details about stuff i dont work on...
Sep 29 01:02:48 <Kensan> raster: hahaha
Sep 29 01:03:04 <Kensan> raster: many people wish for the opposite
Sep 29 01:03:36 <Kensan> raster: actually it's the majority I guess.
Sep 29 01:03:52 <Kensan> raster: I know nothing about the stuff I work on. :)
Sep 29 01:04:30 <Kensan> raster: so I should not keep you from working and I should not keep myself from sleeping...
Sep 29 01:04:36 <slaxxin> why is lilo not used in place of uboot?
Sep 29 01:05:00 <raster> Kensan:  hahahahahah
Sep 29 01:05:05 <raster> Kensan:  go sleep!
Sep 29 01:05:17 <raster> i need to make this exquisite boot splash purierr
Sep 29 01:05:19 <raster> purtier
Sep 29 01:05:20 <Kensan> raster: thanks for all the info. I will try to hit you back if you are interested and if I make some progress but I fear it's going to take some time.
Sep 29 01:05:30 <raster> no problems
Sep 29 01:05:42 <raster> do u have a working setup of oe's build going?
Sep 29 01:05:49 <Kensan> raster: yes I do
Sep 29 01:05:50 <raster> if so - it might be good to get that working
Sep 29 01:05:53 <raster> cool
Sep 29 01:06:06 <raster> openemebdded's git tree?
Sep 29 01:06:13 <raster> org.openembedded.dev ?
Sep 29 01:06:28 <Kensan> raster: I actually used OE/Openmoko/building images to buy me a shiny new quad-core system :) It's so worht to lie to yourself when it comes to gadgets and stuff :)
Sep 29 01:06:40 <raster> HAHAHAHAHHAA
Sep 29 01:06:48 <raster> slaxxin: lilo is x86 only
Sep 29 01:06:59 <Kensan> raster: I used the mokomakefile thingy.
Sep 29 01:07:03 <raster> (utterly useless beyond x86)
Sep 29 01:07:16 <raster> Kensan:  oooh. ok. i set imine up pristine from oe
Sep 29 01:07:17 <Kensan> raster: but I thought I should move to "upstream"
Sep 29 01:07:27 <raster> but i have my own "install.sh" that does what mokomakefile does
Sep 29 01:07:28 <raster> (setup)
Sep 29 01:07:34 <Kensan> raster: nice!
Sep 29 01:08:07 <raster> so i use bitbake directly these days
Sep 29 01:08:24 <Kensan> raster: ok, since FR is more of a devel toy for me I don't actually need the phone apps etc. So actually I could flush the build I got now and do a pristine OE I guess.
Sep 29 01:08:27 <raster> i also have mine set up to build multiple target devices fromt he same source/package tree
Sep 29 01:08:34 <raster> whihc was what i specirfically wanted
Sep 29 01:09:04 * raster needs more devel toys
Sep 29 01:09:15 <Kensan> raster: I actually wanted that too (GTA01/02) but I went the cheap way and used mokomakefile.
Sep 29 01:09:23 <raster> hehee
Sep 29 01:09:29 <raster> well u could use my install.sh
Sep 29 01:09:38 <raster> it just automates the initial setup
Sep 29 01:09:52 <raster> tho i need to really split it out of my tree...
Sep 29 01:10:57 <Kensan> raster: well... how can I put that. *IF* you would provide your script I would be willing to beta-test *heh*
Sep 29 01:12:21 <raster> ummm
Sep 29 01:12:27 <raster> need to fix it up a bit ...
Sep 29 01:14:00 <Kensan> raster: haha, don't bother. I don't want to be the reason for you spending to clean up shell-scripts instead of doing illume/e/enlightenment or any of the zillions of other awesome projects you do.
Sep 29 01:15:06 <raster> i'll get to it eventually
Sep 29 01:16:03 <Kensan> raster: ok, but seriously, don't put in too much effort. You should tell me to RTFM instead ;)
Sep 29 01:16:53 <raster> http://www.rasterman.com/files/install.sh
Sep 29 01:16:57 <raster> read it
Sep 29 01:17:06 <raster> ie mkdir ~/oe
Sep 29 01:17:08 <raster> or whatever
Sep 29 01:17:12 <raster> put install.sh in there
Sep 29 01:17:13 <raster> run it
Sep 29 01:17:25 <raster> not cleaned up
Sep 29 01:17:36 <raster> it wont set up multi-build-target stuff
Sep 29 01:17:37 <raster> only 1
Sep 29 01:17:49 <raster> ooh
Sep 29 01:17:50 <raster> wait
Sep 29 01:17:51 <raster> u need...
Sep 29 01:18:57 <raster> u'll also need
Sep 29 01:19:07 <raster> http://www.rasterman.com/files/local.conf
Sep 29 01:19:12 <raster> before u run it
Sep 29 01:19:13 <raster> :)
Sep 29 01:19:55 <Kensan> raster: AWESOME!
Sep 29 01:20:52 <Kensan> raster: why can't they put your script up on the OE page as a howto? 20 lines and I actually understand how it works.
Sep 29 01:20:55 <Kensan> :)
Sep 29 01:23:19 <raster> i just wrote it end of last week?
Sep 29 01:23:45 <raster> i'm a compulsive scripter
Sep 29 01:23:50 <Kensan> raster: domo arigato-u. Well it's been very interesting and instructive but I really need to catch some sleep.
Sep 29 01:23:55 <raster> if i have something that has a "manual setup"
Sep 29 01:24:03 <raster> i instantly go write all the setup commands in a script
Sep 29 01:24:12 <raster> so if i have to do it again
Sep 29 01:24:23 <Kensan> raster: :)
Sep 29 01:24:25 <raster> 1. i have documented all the steps in a runnable script
Sep 29 01:24:31 <raster> 2. i can repeat with little effort
Sep 29 01:24:41 <raster> the problewm is my scritps tend to be "works for me (tm)"
Sep 29 01:24:48 <raster> i dont ntend to make much effort to make them generic
Sep 29 01:24:53 <raster> for all people in the world
Sep 29 01:25:04 <raster> its great if your environment/setup is like mine tho...
Sep 29 01:25:05 <raster> :)
Sep 29 01:25:14 <raster> i just think the world should use zsh
Sep 29 01:25:20 <raster> and use my .zshrc
Sep 29 01:25:20 <Kensan> raster: well dog food is ok. I can live with that since I can make other peoples stuff work for me somehow... sometimes.
Sep 29 01:25:25 <raster> and my sudoers
Sep 29 01:25:26 <raster> ...
Sep 29 01:25:37 <Kensan> raster: hehe sudoers
Sep 29 01:25:47 <raster> well i have full root sudo access
Sep 29 01:25:56 <raster> no password
Sep 29 01:26:00 <Kensan> raster: tell me your root password and I will set the same on my workstation ;)
Sep 29 01:26:08 <raster> so anything i need root for i just throw sudo infront of
Sep 29 01:26:10 <raster> not secure
Sep 29 01:26:12 <raster> but convenient
Sep 29 01:26:13 <raster> :)
Sep 29 01:26:23 <raster> bah
Sep 29 01:26:26 <raster> u dont need root pw
Sep 29 01:26:32 <raster> u just need mine!
Sep 29 01:26:33 <raster> :)
Sep 29 01:26:43 <Kensan> raster: exactly :)
Sep 29 01:27:25 <Kensan> with that I shall go to sleep and my irc alter ego shall idle here :)
Sep 29 01:28:07 <Kensan> raster: once again, thanks for the images/scripts and whatnot I hope I can come up with something in the not too distant future.
Sep 29 01:28:10 <Kensan> good night
Sep 29 01:30:35 <raster> ok
Sep 29 01:30:37 <raster> nite!
Sep 29 01:30:37 <raster> :)
Sep 29 01:31:18 <rwhitby> morning
Sep 29 01:31:46 <raster> da whit!
Sep 29 01:35:28 <ljp> does anyone build telepathy for the neo?
Sep 29 01:39:01 <ljp> cant seem to find it anywhere... oh well.
Sep 29 01:59:34 <kelvie> anyone run the 2.6.26-stable branch of the OM kernel?
Sep 29 02:09:24 <slaxxin> i check
Sep 29 02:10:07 <slaxxin> nope
Sep 29 02:10:28 <kelvie> hmm.. anyone know if the suspend / sd-card partition table corruption bug is fixed for 2008.9?
Sep 29 02:10:37 <slaxxin> is it     somewhere to dl?
Sep 29 02:10:58 <kelvie> slaxxin: you have to compile it yourself
Sep 29 02:11:04 <slaxxin> mine hasnt corrupted yet\
Sep 29 02:11:11 <slaxxin> no  i dl 
Sep 29 02:11:19 <slaxxin> ok
Sep 29 02:27:03 <Dave> Howdy ya'll
Sep 29 02:28:20 <Dave> any jvm users here?
Sep 29 02:51:25 <kelvie> hmm.. I hear a faint buzz every time I touch the touchscreen on the neo
Sep 29 02:51:29 <kelvie> .. what could cause that?
Sep 29 02:51:32 <kelvie> and what can O di about that?
Sep 29 02:52:07 <kelvie> s/O di/I do/
Sep 29 02:52:07 <apt> kelvie meant: and what can I do about that?
Sep 29 02:55:36 <kelvie> it also makes a whining sound when I rotate the screen
Sep 29 02:58:59 <kelvie> it seems to get louder the closer I get to the speaker
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Sep 29 02:59:57 2008