**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Oct 01 02:59:59 2008 Oct 01 03:13:38 Mwester, yes! :D Oct 01 03:15:29 Yes? Oct 01 03:16:59 YES Oct 01 03:18:38 No Oct 01 03:43:58 mickey|tw, is there a new revision of the HXD8v2? Oct 01 04:12:03 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.dev * r1dd7a079a815 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksums] Remove one wrong line which was coming when do merge. Oct 01 04:13:49 Sargun. Oct 01 04:20:21 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.dev * r32a00dbfd6f2 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksums] Sort the entries with FILENAME by alphabet ordering. Oct 01 04:22:49 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.dev * r5ce70c2338b4 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add python-xlib 0.14 Oct 01 04:39:11 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.dev * r637ade0b3a1a 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-feed.bb: [task-openmoko-feed] Add qt4-x11-free into Openmoko Feed Oct 01 04:39:12 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.dev * r57a64cff05bc 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-feed.bb: [task-openmoko-feed] Add python-pyqt into Openmoko Feed Oct 01 04:39:12 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.dev * r4bdf1179efc1 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-feed.bb: [task-openmoko-feed] Add python-sip into Openmoko Feed Oct 01 04:59:10 anyone out there know why FDOM is reading my SIM card terribly wrong (for contacts) Oct 01 04:59:37 and after it tries to read the contacts, calls stop working Oct 01 05:00:13 and suspend stops working (wont wake up) Oct 01 05:01:09 Pyrasi, So everything works properly until you bring up "contacts"? Oct 01 05:01:16 yea Oct 01 05:01:54 suspend and calls work until i bring up contacts....and the contact data is garbled Oct 01 05:01:55 Pyrasi, Sorry, I haven't seen that. It doesn't happen on mine running FDOM. Oct 01 05:19:29 okay, so the vp of marketing for openmoko says the gta03 will not be black Oct 01 05:21:22 :o Oct 01 05:21:34 what other colour is there? Oct 01 05:22:23 well, he wouldn't say -- but i'm reasonably certain it's not white+orange ;) Oct 01 05:22:26 my guess is silver Oct 01 05:23:11 * kgoetz thinks they should do it in 'fluro black' :P Oct 01 05:24:38 anyway, i got a number of vague answers on what the gta03 will be Oct 01 05:25:23 silver plastic never looks good Oct 01 05:25:54 Hot-pink. Oct 01 05:26:11 rawr Oct 01 05:26:23 Silver plastic can look good - but not practically. Oct 01 05:26:39 hehe, all i know is that he said it wouldn't be black, and when i jokingly asked about the old white+orange, he cracked up saying he was the main voicesaying to stop that 1973 case Oct 01 05:26:40 Winding up the metal content till it's practically metal results in a good look. Oct 01 05:27:01 I have silver plastic on my motorola and it looks good until it starts to rub off Oct 01 05:27:06 then it just looks cheap Oct 01 05:27:19 Yeah - common plastic just doesn't work as it's only paint. Oct 01 05:27:28 steve says that the case was designed by a well known designer, a "maverick" (not mccain -- i asked) Oct 01 05:27:37 +++ 14:54 < SpeedEvil> Hot-pink. Oct 01 05:27:40 but he refused to give any details Oct 01 05:28:21 it would be nice if we could replace the gta02 case with a gta03 case Oct 01 05:28:25 he very strongly implied a 3.55mm audio jack, and that it would have more than 2 external buttons Oct 01 05:29:39 I personally care about a decent dockable case. Oct 01 05:30:19 Why? Oct 01 05:31:09 i also asked about a stylus holder in the case but he wouldn't give a straight answer :( Oct 01 05:33:29 oh, and as to the system specs, which he was far more reluctant to talk about (the case is done, the system specs are fluid, and he didn't want to start rumours)... it will be a "few notches up", and he talked about the whole 500mhz clocked at 400 for the gta02 in the context Oct 01 05:33:57 my implication was to expect something in the 700-800mhz range, and he very very vaguely implied some sort of graphics acceleration Oct 01 05:34:14 ieatlint: if that's true, it's delayed another few months Oct 01 05:34:33 the hardware not being finalised? Oct 01 05:34:33 ieatlint: as AIUI the current GTA03 prototype boards are not graphically accelelrated Oct 01 05:34:54 the SoC has been picked i think, but the chips on it could change Oct 01 05:35:12 * SpeedEvil ponders another glamo nightmare. Oct 01 05:35:20 he didn't want to confirm specifics of the SoC, but he did all but confirm the camera, essentially stating it's planned, but could get pulled Oct 01 05:35:27 I think at this point I'd favour just going with straight framebuffer. Oct 01 05:35:52 GTA01 can decode VCD class images in real-time essentially. Oct 01 05:36:04 steve used to work for creative labs creating 3d accellerators... he seemed very informed on the whole concept, and on the glamo's failure Oct 01 05:36:09 A 2.5-3* faster CPU should have no problem. Oct 01 05:36:19 i dunno what the plan is... but they definitely heard the complaints Oct 01 05:36:35 he spoke of the 2.55mm jack, the usb 1.1 and the system bus Oct 01 05:36:56 1.1 can't go without changing the SoC entirely AIUI. Oct 01 05:37:11 he used woring that implied they wouldn't be [much of] an issue... but gave nothing definite Oct 01 05:37:11 Is it possible talk of 04 might be getting merged in tehre? Oct 01 05:37:33 nope Oct 01 05:37:45 500MHz or 600 - with dumb framebuffer - especially if the screen is lower resolution - shouldn't be a problem graphically. Oct 01 05:37:47 although he said he primarily is working on the 04, so he's going off memory Oct 01 05:39:07 well, i mostly just have info for the rumour mill, but straight from an informed and named party Oct 01 05:39:38 (and there were like 10 other people there at an openmoko user group who can confirm i'm not making this up, hehe) Oct 01 05:39:56 I'm only talking of stuff from named parties too, and inferences based on datasheets. Oct 01 05:40:52 well, with a handful of exceptions, i only got hints, and my own impressions of what he was hinting at are hardly facts Oct 01 05:41:03 he did explicitly say the case would not be black Oct 01 05:41:13 so if no other facts arise from this... :P Oct 01 05:41:42 I hope it's not metallic. Oct 01 05:42:07 Simply as you can't get it looking good if you stay with conventional case plastics and don't go to totally metal loaded plastic. Oct 01 05:43:19 i don't think it's metallic based on another conversation with him Oct 01 05:44:59 he was talking about some of the weird requests he was getting from people, using cases with a magnet on the back or a metal case so magnets would stick Oct 01 05:45:15 and he joked that his response was to ask mr faraday about that Oct 01 05:45:28 so i don't think he'd turn around with a metal case then :P Oct 01 05:45:37 There are ways. Oct 01 05:45:49 But it's tricky. Oct 01 05:48:32 oh, and i just installed one of your screen covers tonight... seems decent Oct 01 05:50:05 :) Oct 01 05:54:08 yo SpeedEvil Oct 01 05:55:05 Yo. Oct 01 06:10:55 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * r184cb9446b49 10/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Oct 01 06:10:55 freesmartphone.org: otapi: add SIM SMS Buffering methods to org.freesmartphone.GSM.Device: Oct 01 06:10:55 freesmartphone.org: * GetSimBuffersSms() -> (b) Oct 01 06:10:55 freesmartphone.org: * SetSimBuffersSms(b) -> () Oct 01 06:38:27 mickey|tw, could you recompile the specs and update the specs html directory? ousaged.RequestResource has a boolean as response in XML, but not in HTML :) Oct 01 06:38:49 geezz. the neo takes forever to flash Oct 01 06:39:41 quickdev: will update, thanks Oct 01 06:39:54 thanks, too Oct 01 06:41:02 ah, already done Oct 01 06:41:10 reload the HTMLs Oct 01 06:41:17 we updated resource yesterday Oct 01 06:41:48 although we need to add the error specifications Oct 01 06:41:50 * mickey|tw notes TODO Oct 01 06:43:46 mickey|tw, http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=specs.git;a=blob_plain;f=html/org.freesmartphone.Usage.html;hb=HEAD - RequestResource(), no return value description? Oct 01 06:44:10 yeah, that's correct Oct 01 06:44:16 we took the return value out Oct 01 06:44:22 yesterday or the day before Oct 01 06:44:49 so your code is out of date, but the specs are correct :) Oct 01 06:46:19 mickey|tw, then http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=specs.git;a=blob;f=xml/org.freesmartphone.Usage.xml;h=ea861ed6d1b97a5a534606da00ff6068f0c2eca4;hb=HEAD has to be updated? Oct 01 06:47:40 hmm oh Oct 01 06:47:46 it's correct in the xml.in Oct 01 06:47:51 i wonder why it's not been changed in the .xml Oct 01 06:49:25 mickey|tw, Are you ever in the Fremont office? Oct 01 06:49:38 mickey|tw, could you fix that somehow? :) Oct 01 06:51:22 Sargun: Fremont? Oct 01 06:51:23 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * r6de8ed9b33d8 10/xml/ (7 files): sync xml files w/ docs Oct 01 06:51:51 OM, Inc. has a Fremont, CA office... Oct 01 06:52:03 Guess not Oct 01 06:52:09 Anyone tested the new QTopia (4.4) ? Oct 01 06:52:48 <[df]> how long's that been out? Oct 01 06:52:55 a day Oct 01 06:53:14 <[df]> ah cool, might give it a try Oct 01 06:53:25 how long does the gta02 take to boot? Oct 01 06:53:53 2 minutes Oct 01 06:53:55 2-3 minutes. Oct 01 06:53:58 20-30 days. Oct 01 06:53:59 err Oct 01 06:54:02 2-3 minutes. Oct 01 06:54:11 heh Oct 01 06:54:22 kind of slow - has anyone profiled the bootup? Oct 01 06:54:39 Sargun: ah, that one. i think that's just Pat, our USA women Oct 01 06:55:31 hehe Oct 01 06:55:47 davo_, fast enough Oct 01 06:55:55 mickey|tw: hello Oct 01 06:56:38 <[df]> trolltech have temporarily removed their qtopia packages from their server due to potential copyright issues :( Oct 01 06:56:48 Sargun: perhaps, I just ordered mine Oct 01 06:57:02 <[df]> oh wait, that was months ago Oct 01 06:57:18 heh Oct 01 06:57:19 <[df]> their download page doesn't seem to work though Oct 01 06:57:20 I can get to a login prompt running guests on Xen in < 5s Oct 01 06:57:29 Thats....different Oct 01 06:57:33 so its probably device initialization Oct 01 06:57:35 Xen is running on a giant machina Oct 01 06:57:36 taking time Oct 01 06:57:45 and an FR is like a Freaky Dinky wink. Oct 01 06:57:50 true Oct 01 06:58:07 is the 400Mhz fast enough to do H.264 decoding? Oct 01 06:58:08 <[df]> there are things that can be done to speed it up Oct 01 06:58:26 davo_: no Oct 01 06:58:45 <[df]> in fact the trolltech site seems to be completely shafted Oct 01 06:58:56 xt: too bad Oct 01 07:01:24 davo_: There's a wiki page about boot speedup. Oct 01 07:02:32 davo_: I am looking into the long bootup time but don't expect too much. The big issues is slow IO. Oct 01 07:02:52 Kensan: oh? what are we waiting for? Oct 01 07:03:32 what is the URL? Oct 01 07:03:42 searching on boot speed doesn't turn up anything obvious Oct 01 07:03:45 davo_: let me see Oct 01 07:04:39 openmoko: 03marek * r4685 10/trunk/src/host/pye17/ (5 files in 4 dirs): call init function on module load Oct 01 07:04:58 davo_: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_time_reduction_plan Oct 01 07:06:37 the breakdown is useful Oct 01 07:07:28 Kensan: is microsd slower or faster? Oct 01 07:07:32 davo_: after X is up it still takes about 40 seconds till the GUI is "responsive" (!) Oct 01 07:07:37 :< Oct 01 07:07:42 any idea on that? Oct 01 07:08:27 davo_: I haven't had time to look into that but starting all daemons (frameworkd etc) happens after X I believe. Oct 01 07:08:56 davo_: If I remember correctly microSD and Flash is about the same. Oct 01 07:09:11 does the arm have anything like intel's performance counters? Oct 01 07:09:22 davo_: it's a real pitty since microSD and flash are slow for different reasons :( Oct 01 07:09:35 Kensan: oh, how is that? Oct 01 07:10:26 davo_: the flash is really slow but has potential of getting better (using hardware ECC instead of doing it in software) Oct 01 07:10:50 davo_: microSD is done by the glamo which has low IO bandwidth Oct 01 07:11:04 i.e. not fixable even with faster parts Oct 01 07:12:00 davo_: well there's probably some potential by optimising the driver but that would need someone knowledgable about the glamo work on it... Oct 01 07:12:32 Kensan: are the docs readily available? Oct 01 07:12:48 davo_: not that I would know off. Oct 01 07:13:35 davo_: if I may ask: what's your interest/plan? Oct 01 07:14:00 openmoko: 03tick 07org.openmoko.dev * r562472c05640 10/packages/efl1/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [etk] update the extra margin function as William's wish Oct 01 07:14:00 openmoko: 03tick 07org.openmoko.dev * r77b70f89e27e 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [assassin] Bump up the version of Assassin Oct 01 07:14:25 Kensan: no specific interest, its just a neat mobile platform Oct 01 07:16:02 davo_: ic, I was just wondering if you wanted to speedup the boottime or do other specific work on the FR or Openmoko. Oct 01 07:16:37 Kensan: well, not having one in hand I don't know what usability issues bother me Oct 01 07:17:14 davo_: ah ic. Oct 01 07:18:27 it would be cool to get FreeBSD up and running on it, but I don't really have the time / inclination to spend ironing out all the issues so I'll just stick to looking at any linux issues that come up Oct 01 07:18:55 IMO - fixing boot-time is the wrong thing to concentrate on - all else being equal - making booting unneeded by getting suspend working is vastly more important. Oct 01 07:19:04 Of course, not all is equal. Oct 01 07:19:09 SpeedEvil: lol Oct 01 07:19:23 SpeedEvil: has much / any work been done in that area? Oct 01 07:19:42 SpeedEvil: yes, that is one argument, but there's a lot of people working on that I believe. Oct 01 07:19:47 booting a small image and then doing a kexec would be much faster Oct 01 07:19:54 yes - but the community person that was/is working on it has had personal issues. Oct 01 07:20:18 (the cpu-frequency scaling) Oct 01 07:20:20 SpeedEvil: and everybody has to turn on their phone at some point so it's a first impression thing. It really sticks when you have to wait 3 minutes to try out your shiny new toy... Oct 01 07:20:34 Sure. Oct 01 07:21:03 SpeedEvil: which community person? Oct 01 07:21:09 cesarb. Oct 01 07:21:31 issues of other stuff taking away dev time. Oct 01 07:21:39 SpeedEvil: ah ok. Oct 01 07:21:48 * SpeedEvil is unfortunately in the same boat. Today I'm getting on a 10m ladder, to fix my roof. Oct 01 07:21:56 SpeedEvil: I misread, that he had personal issues with how OM was dealing with his contributions/patches etc. Oct 01 07:22:22 I'm not saying my interpretation is correct - you may have been reading closer than me. Oct 01 07:22:56 SpeedEvil: well it's the same for a lot of people I think. I can't spend as much time as I would like to either:( Oct 01 07:22:57 Kensan: how does that work any way? Oct 01 07:22:59 morning Oct 01 07:23:15 davo_: what specifically do you mean? Oct 01 07:23:16 Kensan: who is the benevolent dictator? Oct 01 07:23:44 davo_: I guess it depends on which part of the Openmoko software stack you refer to. Oct 01 07:23:53 ok Oct 01 07:24:18 davo_: afaict Andy Green does the kernel commits. Oct 01 07:24:30 davo_: maybe there's a wiki page about that. Oct 01 07:25:08 thanks, you've all been quite helpful - I feel a bit more comfortable that I'll have a place to go with any Freerunner issues that come up Oct 01 07:25:18 need to run off Oct 01 07:26:01 davo_: sure, the community is healthy imho :) Oct 01 07:26:13 how well does the GPRS modem work these days? Oct 01 07:26:27 I read an old old old review that made it sound like a disaster Oct 01 07:26:33 2006 Oct 01 07:26:47 davo_: I recall that mickey was using it for several hours straight with phone calls in between etc. Oct 01 07:27:00 davo_: it should be stable by now Oct 01 07:27:14 but joining networks works as well as you're average phone now? Oct 01 07:27:18 s/you're/your/ Oct 01 07:27:20 davo_ meant: but joining networks works as well as your average phone now? Oct 01 07:28:33 davo_: I have not tested GPRS myself so I can't tell. I just seem to recall, a few people stated that GPRS is solid. Oct 01 07:28:53 cool Oct 01 07:29:30 got to go. Oct 01 07:29:39 later Oct 01 07:36:27 booyaj! Oct 01 07:37:13 what did you do now Oct 01 07:40:26 hello, how i can enable top settings button ? Oct 01 08:05:46 good morning Oct 01 08:30:30 FilipLinux4: good morning Oct 01 08:36:55 raster: Hi, I built an image with the help of your install.sh. Is there a bb for building your illume image? Oct 01 09:10:21 hi dkirker Oct 01 10:27:41 imma gonna go get a hot tranny Oct 01 10:27:43 g line me harder bb Oct 01 10:40:24 Hai. Oct 01 10:42:17 SpeedEvil, Kensan: no personal issues with OM, I've actually been too busy/too tired (near an important deadline at work, plus some family health-related issues) Oct 01 10:44:34 Where can I find information about the battery runtime with the latest software versions? Oct 01 10:44:45 cesarb: oh ok, good to hear. Well not about the family health-related issues... Oct 01 10:45:20 Kensan_: well, it happens Oct 01 10:45:30 yo Oct 01 10:46:24 cesarb: if I may ask: what's the issues with suspend-resume that need to be resolved? AFAICT there's kernel bugs. Oct 01 10:46:58 Kensan_: dunno, I haven't been following suspend/resume (or in fact following anything lately) much Oct 01 10:47:41 Imho the battery life is a major issue, and I can't find alot about it in the wiki and so forth... Oct 01 10:47:58 * cesarb has to go now Oct 01 10:48:12 cesarb: ah ok. thanks for the info. Oct 01 11:25:49 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * rff793796b7ba 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-feed.bb: Revert "[task-openmoko-feed] Add python-pyqt into Openmoko Feed" Oct 01 11:25:50 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r7de0a81319a8 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-feed.bb: Revert "[task-openmoko-feed] Add python-pyqt into Openmoko Feed" Oct 01 11:25:50 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * rad745095d4b0 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-feed.bb: Revert "[task-openmoko-feed] Add python-sip into Openmoko Feed" Oct 01 11:25:51 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * reb8375ecc488 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksums] Add SDL image 1.2.6 Oct 01 11:25:54 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * rcc341afb522b 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksums] Add libmodplug 1.8 Oct 01 11:25:57 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r35d546de821e 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksums] Add speex 1.2rc1 Oct 01 11:26:00 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r85f919986a81 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksums] Add pygame 1.8.1 Oct 01 11:26:03 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * rb747e3b519f8 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksums] Add PyYAML 3.05 Oct 01 11:26:06 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r91607dcf9fd5 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksums] Add alternative fbreader source Oct 01 11:26:09 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * rad07f9584d79 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksums] Add xournal 0.4.0.1 Oct 01 11:26:12 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r8f4e113e9f4b 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksums] Add om-maps hong kong Oct 01 11:26:19 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * refc6f645f82c 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksums] Add asterisk 1.4.17 Oct 01 11:26:22 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r0414537d1192 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksums] Add alternate xvnc source Oct 01 11:26:25 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r793790f4858a 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksums] Add sip 4.7.7 Oct 01 11:47:43 Kensan_: Oct 01 11:47:44 cd ~/ Oct 01 11:47:44 svn co http://svn.enlightenment.org/svn/e/trunk/TMP/oe Oct 01 11:47:51 all the stuff is in svn now Oct 01 11:47:56 i've cleaned it up too Oct 01 11:48:22 raster: awesome! I just got a flavour of bootchart working again. Oct 01 11:48:43 raster: btw, the Xlog shows some errors Oct 01 11:48:44 if u check out thaty svn Oct 01 11:48:50 and use the oe-install.sh Oct 01 11:48:56 u'll hgave a complete oe tree set up Oct 01 11:49:01 all my current patches applied Oct 01 11:49:09 scripts to build/flash/ etc. etc. all there Oct 01 11:49:18 and the .bb's too that i have added Oct 01 11:49:32 raster: ok great. I will upgrade later today. Oct 01 11:50:38 well "i hope" it works Oct 01 11:50:44 oe seems to have bizarre problems Oct 01 11:50:48 it works if its in ~/oe Oct 01 11:50:52 if i put it somewhere else Oct 01 11:51:18 like ~/C/dev/svn/stuff/e/blah/whatever/blah/blah/oe Oct 01 11:51:21 it fails Oct 01 11:51:23 no idea why Oct 01 11:53:03 raster: sounds familiar. There was some issue with relocating oe dirs. Oct 01 11:53:10 no Oct 01 11:53:14 nmot just relocating Oct 01 11:53:17 just locating to start with Oct 01 11:53:24 somewhere other than ~/oe Oct 01 11:53:24 raster: hm ok. Oct 01 11:53:25 anyway Oct 01 11:53:28 if u put it there it works Oct 01 11:53:52 raster: ok good. Will give it a shot tonight. Oct 01 11:56:01 :) Oct 01 12:03:24 Kensan_: let me know if it works well for u Oct 01 12:03:29 if it does i probably can announce... Oct 01 12:03:46 raster: alright, I will. Oct 01 12:04:10 raster: btw, I don't think there's any need to announce anymore: the rumour has spread ;) Oct 01 12:04:22 * Shlee has ordered Pandora. *Waits 4-9 weeks* Oct 01 12:04:32 it has? Oct 01 12:04:36 Shlee: join the club Oct 01 12:04:40 i ordered this morning Oct 01 12:04:56 raster: Pandora? new cool gadget?!? Oct 01 12:04:59 Kensan_: i'd like to slowly add "usable software" Oct 01 12:05:06 but onlyt as the software gets a level of quality Oct 01 12:05:10 * Kensan_ checks purse Oct 01 12:05:21 Kensan_: yeah. its really cool Oct 01 12:05:30 if it has a gsm modem... it's basically be a phone Oct 01 12:05:33 ti'd Oct 01 12:05:35 its got everything else Oct 01 12:05:51 raster: ppl following the discussion on monday were asking about the URL to your image etc. Oct 01 12:06:03 (wifi, bt, omap 3530, 128m ram, flash, 2x sd slots, 800x480 screen, keyboard etc.) Oct 01 12:06:31 Touchscreen. Oct 01 12:06:31 raster: oh ok, I think I know which device you are talking about. They can be ordered now? Oct 01 12:06:36 yes Oct 01 12:06:38 hurry up Oct 01 12:06:38 Preorder started today. Oct 01 12:06:41 only 3000 Oct 01 12:06:44 0_o Oct 01 12:06:58 first 3000 to be ordered ... otherwise u'll need to wait until next year Oct 01 12:07:23 raster: oh... Oct 01 12:07:25 man i'd be so tempted to make the panny INTO a phone Oct 01 12:07:31 might get one first and see Oct 01 12:07:37 QT 4.4.. WOOHOO Oct 01 12:07:37 if it ass good as it seems to be... Oct 01 12:07:46 all it needs is a gsm modem Oct 01 12:07:48 Today is a good day Oct 01 12:07:51 and a trimmer mainboard and nice case Oct 01 12:08:03 i wonder if the panny guys would be willing to do that Oct 01 12:08:06 lose the kbd Oct 01 12:08:10 keep the screen Oct 01 12:08:18 so make it a big-arse 4.3" 800x480 screen Oct 01 12:08:22 cram the rest under it Oct 01 12:08:30 nuke kbd/joypads Oct 01 12:08:39 You can bluetooth link the Pandora to the moko for GPS and GRPS.. ;) Oct 01 12:08:41 remove 1 of the sd cards Oct 01 12:08:43 actually Oct 01 12:08:50 i wonder if there's an sdio gsm modem... Oct 01 12:08:57 oh yeah Oct 01 12:09:00 do4esnt have gps Oct 01 12:09:02 :( Oct 01 12:09:05 nah Oct 01 12:09:12 i mean make a real device with all of it in Oct 01 12:09:16 already on the mainboard Oct 01 12:09:18 trimmed down Oct 01 12:09:33 hm... can't select switzerland :( Oct 01 12:10:37 Kensan_: try the text links below Oct 01 12:10:38 not the map Oct 01 12:11:23 Wait, I cannot find the flash for QT 4.4... has it been released? or just the press release Oct 01 12:11:29 raster: seems like the server has heavy load... maybe everybody is ordering. Oct 01 12:11:38 very likely Oct 01 12:11:41 i got it it early Oct 01 12:11:42 :) Oct 01 12:12:35 raster: of course everybody is hammering the server it's on bloody slashdot Oct 01 12:12:36 Shlee: it will be released to the open community in 3 days Oct 01 12:13:00 raster: ok server is down. Guess that's it for me then. Oct 01 12:13:12 :( Oct 01 12:13:37 raster: haha I think it just went up in smoke. Oct 01 12:14:09 If Slashdot sells the remaining units.. Good on them Oct 01 12:14:11 raster: 5 minutes earlier and it might have been ok. Oct 01 12:14:17 hehehe Oct 01 12:14:21 It's a powerful thing.. I've seen very little on Digg/Reddit Oct 01 12:14:24 or 8hrs ago.. when i ordered Oct 01 12:14:25 :) Oct 01 12:14:51 BoingBoing/gizmodo had an article too.. so would be nice to see them sellout Oct 01 12:14:57 raster: oh there we go. I am on the ordering site. Oct 01 12:15:06 raster: argh, I don't have my credit card with me. Oct 01 12:15:16 I was looking into an open source DJ rig.. they needed 300 sales, got 12 open pre-order Oct 01 12:15:24 so.. open source hardware can always fail ;) Oct 01 12:15:52 oh this was another project? Oct 01 12:16:00 dj rigs are.. definitely much mroe niche! Oct 01 12:18:51 raster: btw, did you figure out what the text error message is, that's showing when exquisite is switched over to e's x bootsplash? Oct 01 12:18:55 http://www.auroramixer.com/media.html Oct 01 12:20:05 openmoko: 03tick 07org.openmoko.dev * rdfa4ae8dd307 10/packages/qtopia-phone/qtopia-phone-x11_git.bb: [qtopia-phone-x11] adding alias name for packages. Oct 01 12:20:05 openmoko: 03tick 07org.openmoko.dev * r3ee50e5a9333 10/packages/ (33 files in 7 dirs): [alias name] Adding alias name tags for packages Oct 01 12:20:06 openmoko: 03tick 07org.openmoko.dev * rcb1c639036c3 10/ (conf/checksums.ini packages/tasks/task-openmoko-feed.bb): Merge branch 'org.openmoko.dev' of git+ssh://git@git.openmoko.org/var/cache/git/openmoko into org.openmoko.dev Oct 01 12:20:30 Kensan_: hmm no. didnt look Oct 01 12:21:20 raster: it's not being logged afaict. Oct 01 12:26:41 * raster reflashes latest image Oct 01 12:29:57 3 days? *like a kid on Christmas* I want it now :( Oct 01 12:30:14 raster: another annoying question: how can I extract the exquisite boobsplash image? That would make for a nice uboot-splash image :) Oct 01 12:31:52 boobsplash! Oct 01 12:31:55 thats AWESOM! Oct 01 12:32:02 AWESOME! Oct 01 12:32:05 boob! Oct 01 12:32:20 hehe =] Oct 01 12:32:25 boot splash is a .edj theme file Oct 01 12:32:28 like everything else efl Oct 01 12:32:32 so it isnt "an image" Oct 01 12:32:41 raster: oh my bad Oct 01 12:32:48 its multiple images, fonts and objects with layout to adapt to multiple resolutions Oct 01 12:32:49 raster: that typo is fair game... Oct 01 12:32:59 so it all depends on the fb res as to what it looks like Oct 01 12:33:08 its not just "scaled" Oct 01 12:33:12 hehe Oct 01 12:33:15 its an AWESOME typo Oct 01 12:33:30 raster: I think I hear Freud applauding up in the clouds... Oct 01 12:33:34 raster: anyway :) Oct 01 12:34:11 raster: ok that's what I thought because I started reading some E/EFL docs. Oct 01 12:35:15 raster: So if I wanted that "picture" to be a 640x480 png, how would I "extract"/convert that? Oct 01 12:35:25 raster: RTFM is a valid answer by the way Oct 01 12:35:27 ;) Oct 01 12:35:58 its not just a picture tho Oct 01 12:36:02 it animates and changes Oct 01 12:36:05 ie fades in Oct 01 12:36:09 responds to progress Oct 01 12:36:17 if the boot sent text messages u'd see them too Oct 01 12:36:18 etc. Oct 01 12:36:32 u could use edje_thumb Oct 01 12:36:35 that comes with edje Oct 01 12:36:35 raster: oukey, I will take a picture with my digicam then Oct 01 12:36:43 raster: *hehe* Oct 01 12:37:02 but really - the best u can do is a screenshot Oct 01 12:37:06 exquisite runs in x too Oct 01 12:37:07 in a window Oct 01 12:37:12 u can install it on your desktop Oct 01 12:37:27 i would highly suggest getting efl on your desktop if u are going to play with it Oct 01 12:37:34 do all your dev/work/whatever there Oct 01 12:37:42 just "build arm packages" and test for speed Oct 01 12:38:30 raster: I got e on my notebook, but it's this gobuntu thingy... I need to tear it apart and do a fresh install. Oct 01 12:38:40 bah Oct 01 12:38:53 stuff like that wil be oooold packages most likely Oct 01 12:38:59 best off nuking the packages and installing from svn Oct 01 12:39:12 i.e. follow the bleedoing edge Oct 01 12:39:19 trust me- e is unlike most oss projects Oct 01 12:39:30 we dont go having a dozen developer branches/tress with toys there Oct 01 12:39:35 everything goes into head Oct 01 12:39:40 raster: yes, and the underlying ubuntu does not play nice with my HW but I never really bothered because it's not my "main dev system". Oct 01 12:39:42 and it goes in and is tested and works Oct 01 12:39:52 so head is generally about as stable as most oss project releases Oct 01 12:40:07 just grab get_e.sh Oct 01 12:40:15 from www.rasterman.com/files/ Oct 01 12:40:29 raster: yeah, saw that :) Good thing you are a compuslive scripter ;) Oct 01 12:40:37 hehehe Oct 01 12:40:40 compulsive Oct 01 12:40:48 dangit, today's bad hair day Oct 01 12:41:47 raster: any suggestions as far as the host os goes? Any distro working particularly well with e and friends? I am happy to try out new stuff. Oct 01 12:41:56 i use ubuntu Oct 01 12:42:00 (hardy) Oct 01 12:42:09 been doing dev on ubuntu now since feisty Oct 01 12:42:14 was on debian before that Oct 01 12:43:41 raster: alright. Oct 01 12:44:12 raster: well thanks for answering *ALL* of my questions. I should get back to work I guess ;) Oct 01 12:44:34 noooo! Oct 01 12:44:35 not work! Oct 01 12:44:38 whats work? Oct 01 12:44:44 wo schaffst du? Oct 01 12:44:46 raster: I will build the image later tonight and tell you how it goes. Oct 01 12:45:21 raster: Your more or less average software dev :) Oct 01 12:45:54 raster: ah another thing: I am going to meet one of the Swisscom guys on Friday. I will ask him about what their plans with OM are. Oct 01 12:46:32 wer? Oct 01 12:47:13 raster: ich kenne seinen Namen (noch) nicht. Oct 01 12:47:20 (und software dev wo? bei microsoft? im handy bereich? sollte ich deutsch kwatschen?) Oct 01 12:47:21 :) Oct 01 12:47:26 aaah Oct 01 12:47:36 wenn es thomas isst - sag mal hallo Oct 01 12:47:37 :) Oct 01 12:47:41 raster: hehe nihongo wa do desu ka? Oct 01 12:48:04 raster: ok, I will. and I most definitely don't work for MS nor any other Microsoft-related company ;) Oct 01 12:48:05 だいじょうぶです。 Oct 01 12:48:13 raster: can't read sorry ;) Oct 01 12:48:31 でも、ちょっと大変 Oct 01 12:48:36 oooh Oct 01 12:48:56 just was wondering if u are german swiss or french swiss or some other swiss... :) Oct 01 12:49:11 raster: I only speak the language. Half swiss-german half jpn Oct 01 12:49:22 raster: hence the nickname Oct 01 12:49:23 si j'ai besoin de parler en francais. Oct 01 12:49:35 oooooh Oct 01 12:49:50 ハフです! Oct 01 12:49:59 raster: consider me impressed. Oct 01 12:50:26 (in japanese you are called "half" - its actually a positive term. half jp/western is considered to be "very beautiful" - better looking that pure japanese for example) Oct 01 12:51:04 sometimes i just like to not insist on speaking english if i CAN speak the other lang Oct 01 12:51:15 i thin its a bit arrogant to demand everyone speak english :( Oct 01 12:51:26 raster: I know, but I did not inherit any of the japanese "look". Just the "I don't have any enzymes for alcohol" thing. Oct 01 12:53:19 ooooh Oct 01 12:53:26 all red after 2 glasses? Oct 01 12:53:27 :) Oct 01 12:54:20 raster: yeah that's about the measure ;) Oct 01 12:54:27 heheheheh Oct 01 12:54:42 i always found that fun in tokyo Oct 01 12:54:44 raster: a bit annoying but leaves me money to buy gadgets ;) Oct 01 12:54:56 the japanese business men walking home late all red faced Oct 01 12:55:03 "aha.. so i knwo what you've been doing!" Oct 01 12:55:06 it's so obvious Oct 01 12:55:15 indeed Oct 01 12:57:16 raster: had a fun trip to china where I was part of a group that was invited to a official meeting where you HAD to drink. Very funny. Oct 01 12:57:19 raster: almost surreal towards the end *g* Anyways, I really should get some work done. Oct 01 12:57:31 raster: will try to catch you later. Oct 01 12:57:32 ooho yeas... HAVING to drink Oct 01 12:57:41 * raster is lucky to have much practice to fall back on Oct 01 12:57:47 ok Oct 01 12:57:49 haha Oct 01 12:57:51 mach spass! Oct 01 12:58:24 thanks, you too. Oct 01 12:59:41 * hipitihop waves to the residents Oct 01 13:00:03 * raster wobbles Oct 01 13:11:05 raster: any plans to add zhone to your image? Oct 01 13:12:50 toggles_w: wel for me zhone doesnt handle incoming calls, doesnt seem to make calls, doesnt seem to register on the network and frameworkd eats up 50% cpu whebevr dragging your finger around (eg scrolling) Oct 01 13:12:59 so at least until frameworkd behaves better... no Oct 01 13:13:19 i'mn not intending it to be a usable phone currently Oct 01 13:13:34 its a bare bones image just enough for me to test the "core desktop" and efl test apps Oct 01 13:17:35 raster: thanks mate, zhone seems to work nearly ok stateside, but I understand where you're coming from Oct 01 13:18:19 yeah Oct 01 13:18:36 at least what i've seen so far is "its not a working phone app - even if basic and for testing" Oct 01 13:18:46 so it just is faster for me to work without it Oct 01 13:18:49 its trivial to add in Oct 01 13:18:54 though i dont want zhone Oct 01 13:18:56 it *IS* a test app Oct 01 13:19:10 my goal is to provide a gui myselfg Oct 01 13:19:12 myself Oct 01 13:22:27 raster: That's always your goal.. ;) Oct 01 13:22:37 of course! Oct 01 13:22:38 :) Oct 01 13:23:54 raster: will your own gui be a frontend of frameworkd when/if it becomes stable and snappy ... or will you design your own framework? Oct 01 13:24:13 yes Oct 01 13:24:23 (first thnig) Oct 01 13:24:36 as such tho frameworkd probably will eventually get redone by someone in c Oct 01 13:24:40 instead of python Oct 01 13:24:45 ok, cool =] Oct 01 13:24:50 python is good for initial prototyping Oct 01 13:24:56 but right now i dont care much about that Oct 01 13:25:00 until it gets in my way Oct 01 13:25:24 but its too slow ... so c would be ideal Oct 01 13:25:26 as i said - it's getting in my way with mouse events making everything sluggish while dragging/scrolling Oct 01 13:26:50 for now i have enough work keeping me busy not to worry Oct 01 13:26:51 :) Oct 01 13:29:27 raster: btw, on your desktop, are you running enlightenment as your main wm ? Oct 01 13:30:35 isnt that like asking bill gates if he runs windows? Oct 01 13:31:11 it is ... but personally i think gates is running *nix ;) Oct 01 13:31:33 i bet he's running his own phone image because he doesn't need a computer anymore Oct 01 13:32:09 dns53: raster or gates ? Oct 01 13:32:16 raster Oct 01 13:32:41 i'm running raster's image too ... works like a charm =] Oct 01 13:32:55 icman: do i run enlightenment as my main wm.... what do u think? :) Oct 01 13:33:20 or more Oct 01 13:33:25 why would i use another wm? Oct 01 13:33:28 the question is what keyboard does he use? Oct 01 13:33:30 what possible reason? Oct 01 13:33:39 when i have the choice of runing exactly what i want Oct 01 13:33:49 that works out of the box precisely the way i like Oct 01 13:33:52 or... something else Oct 01 13:33:52 :) Oct 01 13:34:03 dns53: logitech! :) Oct 01 13:34:33 raster: point taken Oct 01 13:34:37 * sicu hides ;p Oct 01 13:36:31 :) Oct 01 13:37:27 icman: it was a bit of a silly question Oct 01 13:37:28 :) Oct 01 13:37:38 sicu: it was a bit of a silyl q Oct 01 13:37:41 silly Oct 01 13:37:49 i believe in "dogfood" Oct 01 13:37:52 you eat your own Oct 01 13:38:00 and u dont make any excuses about it Oct 01 13:38:08 from CEO to secretary to engineer Oct 01 13:38:48 dont expect others to do what u are nto prepared to yourself Oct 01 13:41:25 good point Oct 01 13:45:42 openmoko: 03werner * r4686 10/developers/werner/wlan-spi/patches/ (hif-can-do-async.patch hif-direct-interrupt.patch series): Use direct SPI interrupts and let the HIF handle asynchronous operations. Oct 01 13:56:51 Is that a kernel patch? Oct 01 14:09:31 haha Oct 01 14:09:40 sorry, wrong window :) Oct 01 14:12:26 am trying to compile the kernel for gta02fake Oct 01 14:12:31 for qemu Oct 01 14:12:48 which kernel version should i use as a base to apply the gta02-fake patch? Oct 01 14:26:56 is qt ext 4.4 now available for us? Oct 01 14:27:59 They will be at the new site: Oct 01 14:27:59 http://qtextended.org Oct 01 14:28:00 As soon as I can. Hopefully by this weekend. Oct 01 14:28:09 hmmm ok. still waiting :< Oct 01 15:01:13 So, has raster taken over the world yet? Oct 01 15:01:38 Nope, his phone cant make a call, soon as it does though, lookout.. Oct 01 15:02:19 anybody knows where to get qt 4.4 for the freerunner? Or isn't it release yet? Oct 01 15:03:01 it's released, but not for the open community yet ... we get it 3 days later iirc Oct 01 15:03:40 why the site is telling it is already released? That's confusing. Oct 01 15:06:51 dolf1074: the propietary version is Oct 01 15:07:05 nyu: I understand Oct 01 15:07:34 nyu: but the wiki should say so. (Like it does now after my edits) Oct 01 15:07:55 the beauty of a wiki Oct 01 15:08:22 and qt 4.4 is really good news, but it's only news for on the openmoko wiki if there are images for the freerunner Oct 01 15:08:29 so i've deleted that to Oct 01 15:09:22 Wiki is great, except for the first one finding errors/inconsistency ;) Oct 01 15:13:11 nyu, unreliable chaotic smattering of information and opinions? Oct 01 15:13:27 * Dave can hear it now... Oct 01 15:13:34 "... but the wiki told me to do it!" Oct 01 15:13:57 Dave: I prefer chaotic information instead on none Oct 01 15:14:04 :P Oct 01 15:14:09 hire a maid ;) Oct 01 15:14:28 wikimaidia Oct 01 15:15:03 bah, if only :| Oct 01 15:15:08 wikimessy Oct 01 15:15:09 dolf1074: anyway, even with a free release, FR images aren't always included Oct 01 15:18:20 whitby... wiki... wit-bee... they're all pretty close :P Oct 01 15:54:03 Hi! Where is the source code for openmoko? (e.g. openmoko-mediaplayer2?) Oct 01 15:54:57 found in wiki :) Oct 01 16:02:43 is this used in current builds? http://svn.openmoko.org/ (for the om2007.2 apps maybe?) Oct 01 16:05:51 LionKMP: forget about 2007.2 Nobody is developing on it Oct 01 16:06:07 oh, what about the openmoko-mediaplayer2? abandoned? Oct 01 16:06:22 and those other apps in that repo. Oct 01 16:06:33 (they are all available on my Om2008.9 too) Oct 01 16:14:02 Well... hard to say.. Oct 01 16:14:20 iirc i wrote something re. 2007 just yesterday Oct 01 16:14:22 please check the mailing list Oct 01 16:15:42 ok Oct 01 16:16:01 (but I don't want 2007, I just want those APPS :) ) I check anyway, wanted to check list archives sometime anyway. Oct 01 16:16:42 sources at openmoko.org and o-hand Oct 01 16:16:51 check OE recipes for URIs Oct 01 16:17:36 ah, yes, ok, I just found that git web thing too. is that "svn" link completely outdated? Oct 01 16:17:43 http://svn.openmoko.org/ Oct 01 16:18:14 not outdated Oct 01 16:18:25 just no longer developed Oct 01 16:18:28 at least from Om's side Oct 01 16:18:36 i have invited the community more than once to continue developing these apps Oct 01 16:19:02 at least something happens on #openmoko-cdevel Oct 01 16:19:20 porting the 2007.2 apps to a more solid base Oct 01 16:19:27 damn right Oct 01 16:19:29 I see. Are those apps inclued in the OE git tree or not? (I see ~10 "openmoko-*" packages, but not those apps. Oct 01 16:19:33 they're fucking solid... for the most part Oct 01 16:19:52 unless you're talking about the openmoko-*[2] apps Oct 01 16:19:58 they're pretty terrible Oct 01 16:20:05 but at least you have a place to start? Oct 01 16:20:30 *2, yes, aren't those newer versions? Howcome they are worse then *1 ? :) Oct 01 16:20:54 they are not in http://git.openmoko.org/?p=openmoko.git;a=tree;f=packages;h=59e9f05565a2bcfdd7decfa4aedc4a61717b1502;hb=HEAD I think. Oct 01 16:21:40 ah, found. called "openmoko2" Oct 01 16:21:51 Is that the sequel? Oct 01 16:21:59 :) Oct 01 16:22:48 indeed Oct 01 16:23:25 the url is just a png file. well, ok, I'll try later. Maybe I should try the OE docs first :-) Oct 01 17:21:12 * Could not obtain administrative lock Oct 01 17:21:24 I get that under toolchain on my PC. ideas? Oct 01 17:25:19 ah, root. ok. Oct 01 17:29:43 :p Oct 01 18:17:36 Dave! Oct 01 18:57:01 Any idea when the next qtopia image is out? Oct 01 19:02:10 what's up with everyone dropping out all the time ... ? :/ Oct 01 19:02:26 sicu: it's called netsplis Oct 01 19:02:30 *netsplits Oct 01 19:03:05 xt: hmmm, seems to happen more than usual the past couple of days Oct 01 19:03:35 freenode has been a little unstable recently Oct 01 19:03:59 I've heard that one before :) Oct 01 19:04:01 it happens, they were moving one of their servers the otherday Oct 01 19:04:21 kirun: you get what you pay for :) Oct 01 19:04:26 fair enough Oct 01 19:05:18 apt: stop splitting the net Oct 01 19:05:18 * apt leaps to his feet and stops splitting the net Oct 01 19:05:29 So making smart comments doesn't keep servers up? Oct 01 19:09:15 * mwester notices that his printer has just run out of ink, and is happy that perhaps there *is* a technical problem he can actually get solved today. :-/ Oct 01 19:10:16 mwester: congratz Oct 01 19:10:27 :) Oct 01 19:10:39 ;] Oct 01 19:11:29 * lymeca has a BRAND NEW FREERUNNER right here! Oct 01 19:11:33 * lymeca opens the box... Oct 01 19:12:23 lymeca: Yay! :) Oct 01 19:12:28 Are there already nice fixes into the testing branch? Oct 01 19:12:38 and are there regressions? Oct 01 19:13:57 Would we even notice regressions at this point? ;) Oct 01 19:14:58 There's just not a lot of progress as far as I can see -- or perhaps the bot that posts commits here is missing the 2008.9 commits... Oct 01 19:15:16 There's lots of work on FSO, though - that's looking really good. Oct 01 19:15:23 mwester: It would. I can do sms's and phone (sometimes) work Oct 01 19:16:13 mwester: okay, will wait for next release then. I have tried to put my om2008.9 on the testing branch, but failed. (maybe took wrong packages) Oct 01 19:17:53 The testing branch is always somewhat hazardous, it can break easily. Oct 01 19:18:47 yeah, I know. But because there weren't any updates on the 'stable' branch, I hoped I would get them in the testing branch Oct 01 19:20:58 I hope qt extended 4.4 comes really soon. Oct 01 19:23:40 I'm looking forward to that as well; I've switched to Qtopia for my dev and test stuff as it's just too hard to keep up with the 2008 and FSO releases lately. Oct 01 19:25:30 just trying to get qtextended.org set up correctly Oct 01 19:25:37 I can keep up with the releases, but I can't see any improvements. I see lot's of bug getting fixed, but there are to many unresolved. I think if they keep at this rate, it will take another year for we getting a stable phone stack Oct 01 19:25:42 lpotter++ Oct 01 19:25:49 ~karma lpotter Oct 01 19:25:49 lpotter has neutral karma Oct 01 19:25:53 Aww... Oct 01 19:25:55 lpotter++ Oct 01 19:25:57 heh Oct 01 19:25:59 lpotter++ Oct 01 19:26:01 ~karma lpotter Oct 01 19:26:01 lpotter has neutral karma Oct 01 19:26:05 ha! Oct 01 19:26:17 Hmm... damn you, apt, and your non-channel-watching ways! ;) Oct 01 19:26:26 lpotter: hey, probably lot's of work there? Oct 01 19:27:00 well... more like dns/routing configurations Oct 01 19:28:17 If you guys need a remote server admin, i've got a boyfriend looking for a job like that ;) Oct 01 19:28:24 heh Oct 01 19:28:34 this server was outsourced Oct 01 19:28:37 He's really good :) Oct 01 19:28:43 *giggles* Aww, ok :) Oct 01 19:28:57 i am spoiled by our offices sysadmin who is very excellent Oct 01 19:29:04 okay Oct 01 19:29:19 So where should I go for documentation about upgrading my brand new Freerunner's software? Oct 01 19:31:40 upgrading: you mean upgrading om2007.2? Than I have to disappoint you, there are no updates. If you want to upgrade to the new om2008.9 distribution, then you will have to reflash your freerunner. See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_the_Neo_FreeRunner Oct 01 19:32:02 If you want to know what to flash, look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions Oct 01 19:32:20 If you know what you want, but search for downloading it: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Download Oct 01 19:33:53 Hm, on 2008.9 I downloaded mplayer from official repositories and I'm trying to play an internet radio, but I get no sound... Oct 01 19:57:29 http://rafb.net/p/ojtXPC93.html has output from computer and FR Oct 01 20:44:40 So new Freerunners come with 2007.2? Oct 01 20:45:10 If I wanted to upgrade from 2007.2 to FDOM 20080927 (which is based off of 2008.9), can I just upgrade directly to it? Oct 01 20:45:30 <[df]> I think you have to flash it Oct 01 20:47:37 there's no way to upgrade from 2k7.2 to 2k8.* ... you will need to flash Oct 01 20:47:58 uhmm .. yeh, what [df] said Oct 01 20:48:26 Is playing audio streams with the mplayer available in 2008 repos supposed to work? Oct 01 21:51:58 heh, FR is a hot topic: http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/bizarre_cathedral_24 Oct 01 22:05:36 that was funny Oct 01 22:07:16 modified Oct 01 22:08:00 The FreeRunner image will be ready in 3 days Oct 01 22:08:07 thats funny Oct 01 23:46:24 freesmartphone.org: 03rod 07fso-makefile * race58f6b294a 10/Makefile: Changed setup-openembedded to use the org.openembedded.dev branch Oct 01 23:46:41 freesmartphone.org: 03rod 07refs/remotes/origin/HEAD * race58f6b294a 10fso-makefile/Makefile: Changed setup-openembedded to use the org.openembedded.dev branch Oct 01 23:46:42 freesmartphone.org: 03rod 07refs/remotes/origin/master * race58f6b294a 10fso-makefile/Makefile: Changed setup-openembedded to use the org.openembedded.dev branch Oct 01 23:59:05 any experienced debianist around ? Oct 02 00:00:05 ola las debianistas! Oct 02 00:00:38 just stupid question, do I have to recompile slapd to use encryption ? Oct 02 00:00:58 * raster slaps slapd Oct 02 00:01:24 * Mononoke cries Oct 02 00:06:06 what is the status on power management for the freerunner? Oct 02 00:11:27 * davo_ is curious how much tick-less support adds to the battery life Oct 02 00:13:59 tickless is AWESOME Oct 02 00:14:08 *IF* u get it right Oct 02 00:14:11 heh Oct 02 00:14:31 in fact... tickless should have been done so long ago it's not funny Oct 02 00:14:43 well Oct 02 00:14:43 like back in 0.9xx kernel days Oct 02 00:14:45 its not easy Oct 02 00:14:56 i would have done it to start with Oct 02 00:14:58 it has obvious benefits Oct 02 00:15:07 bear down on it Oct 02 00:15:14 how much trap handling code do you write on a daily basis? Oct 02 00:15:15 :D Oct 02 00:15:28 its also not that big an issue until you go embedded Oct 02 00:15:40 which is "relatively" recent Oct 02 00:15:54 granted there are power issues in data centers Oct 02 00:16:08 but the whole having 500,000 servers all talking to each other Oct 02 00:16:20 is "comparatively" recent as well Oct 02 00:16:25 mind you Oct 02 00:16:31 I'm not knockin' it Oct 02 00:16:42 "trap code"? Oct 02 00:17:05 * mwester used to trap gophers Oct 02 00:17:09 and i'd do it becauser its just the right thing to do Oct 02 00:17:15 We got a nickel for each tail Oct 02 00:17:19 heh Oct 02 00:17:22 from the local farmers. Oct 02 00:17:25 as such resolution of things like select() is tied to tick interval Oct 02 00:17:36 if u go tickless resolution is then limited to resolution of the rtc. Oct 02 00:17:41 whihc should be better Oct 02 00:17:42 :) Oct 02 00:17:56 but same Oct 02 00:17:58 noit knocking it Oct 02 00:18:05 it just should have been done long before now Oct 02 00:18:06 :) Oct 02 00:21:41 mmmmmmgopher stew Oct 02 00:22:47 that sounds like rasters first release,,,,Gopher Stew Oct 02 00:23:03 yummy Oct 02 00:23:38 ok so its not the first Oct 02 00:26:00 hahaha Oct 02 00:28:35 Hrmmmph. You laugh, but if the economy here doesn't get fixed, that's what I'll be eating... :( Oct 02 00:29:13 thyats why you're going to pump 700bhillion into it! Oct 02 00:29:16 to fix it!@ Oct 02 00:29:17 :) Oct 02 00:29:25 * mwester was a little nervous this first morning of the new fiscal quarter, when his ssh keys were rejected by the corporate server when he went to check his email. Oct 02 00:29:32 heh Oct 02 00:29:58 mwester: might eb time to look at a new job? Oct 02 00:30:43 Yeah, I got an email from my boss with some internal projects he needs done -- I think he might be trying to tell me something. Oct 02 00:30:49 getting powertop to run on OM could show places to improve... Oct 02 00:30:54 (besides tickless) Oct 02 00:31:02 I think powertop does run on it Oct 02 00:31:05 doesn't arm use tickless? Oct 02 00:31:07 Dunno where a binary is, though. Oct 02 00:31:17 how does powertop work? Oct 02 00:31:57 davo_: I think it depends on the kernel and chipset; very recent kernels should support tickless, but the hardware support for the GTA02 isn't there yet. Oct 02 00:32:04 oh Oct 02 00:32:06 somehow asks the kernel what caused how many wakeups Oct 02 00:32:20 mnmmm Oct 02 00:32:22 tickless Oct 02 00:32:27 then all we need is less polling Oct 02 00:32:32 Wonka: a bigger issue is axing any apps that do polling Oct 02 00:32:33 right Oct 02 00:32:33 (from userspace) Oct 02 00:32:43 raster beat me Oct 02 00:32:46 Nothing wrong with polling. Oct 02 00:32:49 uhm Oct 02 00:32:52 there also comes a "poll interval" at which it "doesnt matter" Oct 02 00:32:54 eg Oct 02 00:33:05 wake up every 5 seconds is in the "who gives a crap" land Oct 02 00:33:12 as long as everyone wakes up at the same time! Oct 02 00:33:17 ie u synchronise polling Oct 02 00:33:48 there was stuff added to enable that too Oct 02 00:34:27 what stuff? Oct 02 00:34:39 Right - a master task that handles polling and notifies/dispatches other tasks to handle things. Basically that's like moving stuff out of the kernel into user space where policy can be more easily applied. Oct 02 00:34:43 is "polling" as in select(,,,NULL) considered polling at all? Oct 02 00:34:57 like a /sys file u can select on to get a "wake up now and poll" signal from the kernel? Oct 02 00:35:14 raster: lemme look... Oct 02 00:35:16 Wonka: thats not polling Oct 02 00:35:39 Wonka: polling is when u select WITH a regular timeout or use sleep() Oct 02 00:35:51 ok Oct 02 00:36:01 if the kernel has a /sys file node to guarantee everyone gets a "poll now" message at the same time - i'll happily throw it into ecore_poller Oct 02 00:36:04 thats exactly what i wanted to know :) Oct 02 00:36:06 which is just for this stuff Oct 02 00:36:13 it synchronises all polling within an apps main loop Oct 02 00:36:31 it doesnt guarantee resolution or accuracy - just accepts a power-of-2 hint as to "how often" Oct 02 00:36:45 ie 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64 etc. Oct 02 00:36:56 and 1 == 1/8th of a second by default Oct 02 00:37:06 though that poller virtual tick interval is configurable Oct 02 00:37:06 :) Oct 02 00:37:25 \if the kernel provides something similar - i'll happily throw it into the back end Oct 02 00:37:53 mwester: i wonder if the central proc should do the polling or simply handle registration of "i want to poll" processes Oct 02 00:38:02 and all it does is gather all the procs that say "i want to poll" Oct 02 00:38:10 and simply send back to them a "wake up" byte on a socket Oct 02 00:38:18 but it sends them all together Oct 02 00:38:26 so they all wake up at once Oct 02 00:38:37 its not quite as efficient as doing the poll *IN* the poller proc Oct 02 00:38:45 but its more flexible.. Oct 02 00:40:01 raster: this is what i meant: http://lwn.net/Articles/228143/ Oct 02 00:40:03 Do you want them to wake all together, though? Memory and processor contention might be a problem. I would think you might like to have multiple "queues" Oct 02 00:40:57 mwester: well memory i wouldnt consider an issue - the procs are alive and listening already using ram and likely all ram needed to poll is already set up and used Oct 02 00:41:13 yes- cpu might be an issue Oct 02 00:41:19 but thats what the scheduler should handle Oct 02 00:41:50 i know i was planning on punting off all of e's poling needs intoa central polling process in the bg Oct 02 00:42:04 it just gets fed things to do via dlopen()'ed modules Oct 02 00:42:17 and about how often to poll Oct 02 00:42:26 and it can lower its priority down to lowes pri Oct 02 00:42:45 so when it wakes up to poll - if anything else needs cpu it should get pre-empted as its polling tasks are "not essential" Oct 02 00:43:24 Wonka: hmm - dont think i want those Oct 02 00:43:33 i still want regular wakeups Oct 02 00:43:35 BUT Oct 02 00:43:46 i want them to be able to shift around to be merged Oct 02 00:43:53 ack. Oct 02 00:43:54 eg oif u have 3 procs waking up every 2 seconds Oct 02 00:44:01 they all still wake up about every 2 secs Oct 02 00:44:03 BIUT Oct 02 00:44:08 they wake up at the exact same time Oct 02 00:44:22 they may wake up in 2.5 or 3 secos Oct 02 00:44:24 or 1 sec Oct 02 00:44:26 it may vary a bit Oct 02 00:44:32 but still - about every sec Oct 02 00:44:33 you need to shift about two of them by about 2s added up Oct 02 00:44:35 err 2 sec Oct 02 00:44:48 then apps that poll ever 4 secs - wake upat the same time the 2 sec ones do Oct 02 00:44:52 but onyl ever 2nd "tick" Oct 02 00:44:53 etc. Oct 02 00:45:03 and those that wake up every 5s? Oct 02 00:45:09 "not allowed" Oct 02 00:45:14 rounded down to 4 Oct 02 00:45:15 :) Oct 02 00:45:24 thats why i adopted power-of-2 for ecore_poller Oct 02 00:45:30 then it can collect them together Oct 02 00:45:30 and do they need to wake up every 2s - wouldn't every 4s be enough? Oct 02 00:45:43 thats up to the app and what it is doing Oct 02 00:45:54 http://www.vergenet.net/~raster/ Oct 02 00:46:05 the 2, 4, 8 ,16 sec etc. is a decision by the programmer as to just how often the info may change so a poll is needed Oct 02 00:46:09 eg batery life Oct 02 00:46:39 but other thigns like wifi signal may need to be polled more often (every second) Oct 02 00:46:44 bqttery every 32 sec Oct 02 00:46:46 battery Oct 02 00:46:58 hopefully power insert/remvoe is an event Oct 02 00:47:09 and when u get power insert/remove u do a battery poll then Oct 02 00:47:16 in addition to the "every 32 sec" Oct 02 00:47:25 u wont get rid of poling i think Oct 02 00:47:31 but i can make it more efficient Oct 02 00:47:54 tick -> tickless removes a few hundred cpu wakeups a second Oct 02 00:48:02 that alone is a MASSIVE imrpovement Oct 02 00:49:52 RASTER Oct 02 00:49:58 moo Oct 02 00:50:02 rastermoo Oct 02 00:50:08 Hello to you! Oct 02 00:50:38 moollo Oct 02 00:51:28 heh Oct 02 00:51:40 I think I am going to try to install the illume keyboard on OM2007 tonight. Oct 02 00:51:47 it shouldn't be a fixed polling period in the first place... Oct 02 00:52:00 Hopefully it doesn't result in epic fail. Oct 02 00:52:34 if you have apps that want to be alerted when the battery reaches 10% and you're at 60% and it looks like it only decreases 1% per minute.. you can go to sleep for half an hour safely Oct 02 00:53:06 balrog-k1n: thats why i refer to it as virtual poller ticks Oct 02 00:53:19 and u scheduler a poll job in terms of N ticks where N is a power of 2 Oct 02 00:53:24 oh snaps, are we talking about battery? Oct 02 00:53:25 tick is a flexible value Oct 02 00:53:34 eg when plugged into pmains power u can decrease it Oct 02 00:53:38 when on battery increase Oct 02 00:53:39 is raster attempting to integrate that into his awesome image? Oct 02 00:54:04 raster: ah, cool Oct 02 00:54:04 when the user has gone idle for > 30 sec, increase as well Oct 02 00:54:05 etc. Oct 02 00:54:15 What are we increasing here? Oct 02 00:54:24 battery life Oct 02 00:54:25 so surew Oct 02 00:54:26 u still wake up Oct 02 00:54:30 that's quite smart Oct 02 00:54:36 but 1. u collect wakeups to all happen at the same time Oct 02 00:54:55 2. u can force those wakeups to become heavily extended Oct 02 00:55:07 raster, does it wake up successfully? Oct 02 00:55:12 right now for example my poll "tick" is 1/8th of a sec Oct 02 00:55:21 so u ask for a "4" u get 0.5 secs between polls Oct 02 00:55:26 yeah, i hear they are discussing a similar idea for reducing wake-ups under linux in general Oct 02 00:55:29 but that 1/8th of a sec is globally changable Oct 02 00:55:48 so that if there are 10 processes waiting in select().. their wakeups are groupped Oct 02 00:55:56 but this is definitely for non-critical polling tasks Oct 02 00:55:59 eg Oct 02 00:56:02 read battery level Oct 02 00:56:07 or get wifi signal strength Oct 02 00:56:11 or get gsm strenth Oct 02 00:56:12 etc. Oct 02 00:56:17 sounds good Oct 02 00:56:20 anything where there is no way to get an interrupt/signal from the device Oct 02 00:56:45 of course if the device offers the ability to interrupt u if signal changes > 1% or battery etc etc. Oct 02 00:56:46 use that Oct 02 00:56:48 mh. wifi signal strength should be possible Oct 02 00:56:55 balrog-k1n: and yes. Oct 02 00:56:56 Hello WOnka! Oct 02 00:57:04 the problem is - right now i have this internal to a process Oct 02 00:57:04 can only be measured when a packet comes in Oct 02 00:57:13 and that causes an interrupt Oct 02 00:57:30 within the mainloop it will group wakeup polls together and use the virtual tick to know how long the sleep interval is betwene poll wakeups Oct 02 00:57:37 it doesnt extend outside the proc Oct 02 00:57:41 gsm strength change does cause something to libgsm-thingie... is that one polling? Oct 02 00:57:44 we n4eed to be able to extend outside of a proc Oct 02 00:57:45 ah Oct 02 00:57:50 it should be fairly easy though Oct 02 00:57:52 to do Oct 02 00:57:57 * mwester is an idiot. sigh. Oct 02 00:57:59 we could use dbus Oct 02 00:58:07 but that may be overkill Oct 02 00:58:27 i was pondering a simple unix socket Oct 02 00:58:29 MWESTER Oct 02 00:58:31 and a simple process Oct 02 00:58:36 handles client unix socket connects Oct 02 00:58:41 * mwester copies the correct kernel in place, and decides to pay more attention to what he's doing instead of reading IRC :D Oct 02 00:58:55 But we like you, Mwester!! :) Oct 02 00:58:58 org.fso.poll.2s? Oct 02 00:59:02 raster: semaphore? Oct 02 00:59:02 client writes a "word" (int) that basically says "me - this client, i want to be woken up every 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32 etc. ticks" Oct 02 00:59:08 hehe Oct 02 00:59:17 then client simply waits for a byte to be written to it down the socket as a wakeup Oct 02 00:59:21 2, 4, 6, 8, who will we assassinate? Oct 02 00:59:23 dameon can collect it all together trivially Oct 02 00:59:30 * Dave nominates Sean :P Oct 02 00:59:32 Just have a bank of semaphores, one for each power of two, and let client wait on the correct one. Oct 02 00:59:42 mwester: how do u indicate poll interval? Oct 02 00:59:51 take 'em to the bank! Oct 02 00:59:56 mwester: doesnt work well with select() loops Oct 02 01:00:02 which is what most apps use Oct 02 01:00:10 poll() ? Oct 02 01:00:14 if its not an fd - u create trouble Oct 02 01:00:15 mwester: isnt the point of semaphores that only one client is waked for every signal? Oct 02 01:00:29 Raster, why wouldn't it be an fd? Oct 02 01:00:32 Wonka: Yes, but you can let them all loose too. Oct 02 01:00:39 * Dave waves to Torikun Oct 02 01:00:43 raster: good point about select() Oct 02 01:00:46 Mwester, that sounds naughty. Oct 02 01:00:49 Dave: i'm proposing an fd-based soln Oct 02 01:00:56 semaphores indeed are leaner Oct 02 01:01:05 File Descriptors Gone Wild? Oct 02 01:01:06 but will be nasty for everyone in their select()'s Oct 02 01:01:18 unless someoen has a better idea? Oct 02 01:01:20 * mwester has been doing a git bisect to find a bad patch, but didn't pay attention and has been copying the same kernel to the FR after each bisect... sigh... Oct 02 01:01:23 anyway. i'll hit the sack now. Oct 02 01:01:28 i could whip up a daemon like this in an hour Oct 02 01:01:32 including full autofoo tree Oct 02 01:01:34 Mwester - oops? Oct 02 01:01:35 mwester: ouch. Oct 02 01:01:42 i could also throw in a dbus interface too for free? Oct 02 01:01:59 dbus is hardly free! :D Oct 02 01:02:06 Raster - hooray! Oct 02 01:02:10 yo Oct 02 01:02:10 in fact Oct 02 01:02:10 Free is always good! Oct 02 01:02:15 i could add it to wake Oct 02 01:02:21 Unless it's more shitty icons from Xora :P Oct 02 01:02:23 it already is an "at" replacement Oct 02 01:02:30 oh, is this all part of waked? Oct 02 01:02:41 inteded to exec jobs at second-interval accuracy as well as set the rtc to wake up from suspend to run the jobs Oct 02 01:02:55 I think if you want dbus, you should have a task that waits using the polling mechanism and sends the dbus message itself, rather than have the poller do that. Oct 02 01:03:00 i can add a uni socket for "simple apps" and a dbus interface as well Oct 02 01:03:25 mwester: why? Oct 02 01:03:48 dbus is rather heavyweight for sub-second polling, no? Oct 02 01:03:53 (curious. i dont see why it cant just be the same thing)? Oct 02 01:04:06 mwester: yes Oct 02 01:04:10 in which case dont use the dbus api Oct 02 01:04:12 use the unix socket Oct 02 01:04:21 ok Oct 02 01:04:22 the same proc will OFFER both interfaces Oct 02 01:04:33 if no one uses the dbus one - it end sup not doing anything Oct 02 01:04:36 ends Oct 02 01:04:37 up Oct 02 01:04:49 down Oct 02 01:04:54 only problem is its a session-based service Oct 02 01:04:55 not system Oct 02 01:05:05 Ok, so it won't just be broadcasting poll messages every 1/8 th of a second then. Oct 02 01:05:08 isn't that rather taxing? Oct 02 01:05:12 oh hell no Oct 02 01:05:29 with the unix socket i knows what client is connected Oct 02 01:05:40 and knwos client X wants to be woken up every N poll intervals Oct 02 01:05:50 it only wakes up at the minimum interval Oct 02 01:05:59 eg if the most frequent poll is 1 sec Oct 02 01:06:03 then every sec it wakes up Oct 02 01:06:12 Ah Oct 02 01:06:21 but it will ONLY send the "hey wakeup" byte to the client(s) that want to be woken every second Oct 02 01:06:30 so only procs that need waking get a wake Oct 02 01:06:46 the waker only wakes up exactly as often as needed Oct 02 01:06:50 no more Oct 02 01:07:15 i need a way to dettect wake from suspend actuallyu Oct 02 01:07:35 though i despise suspend... Oct 02 01:07:45 * raster much prefers the zero-clock thing omap does.... Oct 02 01:07:59 * Dave pictures raster's walls covered in his crazy program flow and application design ideas (perhaps the kitchen walls house his UI designs?) Oct 02 01:08:14 dfav i dont use paper Oct 02 01:08:17 or write on walls Oct 02 01:08:27 They make 4x8 sheets of panelling made from that whiteboard material. Oct 02 01:08:27 i actually just do it in my head Oct 02 01:08:29 Well, aren't we brilliant :) Oct 02 01:08:32 Aha! Oct 02 01:08:36 That explains a lot, raster ;) Oct 02 01:08:40 i hate paper Oct 02 01:08:43 and pens Oct 02 01:08:46 such a mess Oct 02 01:08:49 No wonder you're slightly ... uhh... crazy? :) Oct 02 01:08:57 hay Oct 02 01:09:00 i tend to keep most of my stuff in my head Oct 02 01:09:13 Does it ever become too much? Oct 02 01:09:32 I don't use paper either. I type faster than I can write. Oct 02 01:09:36 I guess you just let a bunch of it ooze out here into the channel, one globby bit at a time :) Oct 02 01:09:40 sometimes Oct 02 01:09:48 cjb, whiteboard, on occasion? ;) Oct 02 01:09:54 raster, don't worry, we appreciate it :) Oct 02 01:10:00 rare occasion Oct 02 01:10:06 bah :P Oct 02 01:10:07 its good training for the brain Oct 02 01:10:11 i dont take notes in meetings Oct 02 01:10:15 i just remember stuff Oct 02 01:10:23 He's a woman! Oct 02 01:10:30 i also tend to not do the "i will need to check and get back to you" much in meetings Oct 02 01:10:32 raster: i used to do that to Oct 02 01:10:39 as i generally can answer immediately from the top of my head Oct 02 01:10:44 so it is helpful. Oct 02 01:10:51 back in the days Oct 02 01:10:58 but yes - sometimes its to omuch Oct 02 01:11:06 some things fall through the cracks Oct 02 01:11:06 but then the tierdness came Oct 02 01:11:16 zash: more coke! Oct 02 01:11:16 :) Oct 02 01:11:24 :D Oct 02 01:11:47 the tierdness and boredoom of DOOM! Oct 02 01:12:02 How can you get bored of Doom? Oct 02 01:12:37 .. iduno Oct 02 01:13:40 zash :o Oct 02 01:14:09 sometimes things fall through the cracks? Oct 02 01:14:13 isn't that what the wife's for? ;) Oct 02 01:16:02 zash: "iduno" will not work. try "iddqd" and "idkfa" Oct 02 01:16:40 my brain hurts! Oct 02 01:17:04 ok, wth Oct 02 01:17:07 perl is weird Oct 02 01:17:16 perl rocks Oct 02 01:17:20 ruby rocks too Oct 02 01:17:30 use perl; Oct 02 01:17:30 but some things should be renamed Oct 02 01:17:32 roflcopters Oct 02 01:17:37 use strict; Oct 02 01:17:42 Has anyone ever noticed cellphones look retarded? Oct 02 01:17:45 no php; Oct 02 01:17:51 ruby is nice, i need to learn more perl Oct 02 01:18:01 Dave: they do? Oct 02 01:18:06 collect should be renamed to map Oct 02 01:18:34 dude this one looks like a widget Oct 02 01:18:41 this other one is a calculator ripoff Oct 02 01:18:59 oh and the widget one looks more like a stopwatch Oct 02 01:19:08 Wonka: collects makes more sence Oct 02 01:19:30 do stuff to an array, and collect the results Oct 02 01:19:55 * zash might be damaged by learning ruby before perl Oct 02 01:20:21 zash: but every it's named map Oct 02 01:20:26 zash: perl, haskell, ... Oct 02 01:20:32 everywhere else Oct 02 01:20:34 i meant Oct 02 01:20:45 <- too tired Oct 02 01:20:54 should really leave now. Oct 02 01:20:58 cu Oct 02 01:21:00 haha this one looks like an ipod Oct 02 01:21:05 but on steroids Oct 02 01:22:52 Hey Dave. Oct 02 01:24:06 IPODS ON STEROIDS! Oct 02 01:24:22 http://www.robertopiecollection.com/Application/Images/Teleph/746-RED-lg.jpg Oct 02 01:24:32 apple ripped of that Oct 02 01:27:02 What are people running on their FRs these days? Oct 02 01:32:29 "This is very bad. Enlightenment SEGV'd. This is not meant to happen and is likely a sign of a bug in Enlightenment..." Oct 02 01:32:42 Raster, did you do that?!? :p Oct 02 01:32:54 do what? Oct 02 01:32:56 mwester: the bit i love is whn everything keeps working after ;0 Oct 02 01:33:04 Now I need to find the F1 key on my Neo. Oct 02 01:33:13 Ooh, it just did it again. Oct 02 01:33:20 just press the button Oct 02 01:33:27 (the touchscreen works) Oct 02 01:33:37 its e's segv handler Oct 02 01:33:46 e doesnt like to segv rudely on you Oct 02 01:33:57 it likes to politely inform you of its intention to segv Oct 02 01:34:06 Of course, F2 is not so useful on the neo :) Oct 02 01:34:13 letting you go off to a console and attach gdb and see whats up Oct 02 01:34:19 or just say "fuck it" and hit restart Oct 02 01:34:20 :) Oct 02 01:34:25 u dont need f2 Oct 02 01:34:28 just press the button Oct 02 01:34:29 I broke something. Oct 02 01:34:45 if it keeps happening u've likely done something bizarre Oct 02 01:34:54 as such i know of only 1 segv right now Oct 02 01:34:57 and thats on shutdown Oct 02 01:35:04 yeah, the buttons onscreen work fine; it's just in an endless loop. I just suspended and resumed FSO Oct 02 01:35:10 Let me reboot and try that again. Oct 02 01:35:12 (only happens when i do a halt/shutdown of the device) Oct 02 01:35:34 what exactly causes the segv is a matter for debuging and gdb time Oct 02 01:37:20 Which is rather hard to do, I would imagine, if the device is in the process of shutting down! Oct 02 01:37:26 but whatever image u are running likely has older code Oct 02 01:37:33 so i cant really say Oct 02 01:37:38 yeah Oct 02 01:37:43 so i havent tracked that one down yet Oct 02 01:37:48 but its not a high priority :) Oct 02 01:37:50 Oh yeah, really old -- it's just a test userspace so I can check out patches and such. Oct 02 01:39:02 aaaah Oct 02 01:39:08 in that case.. not a lot i can do to help :( Oct 02 01:41:28 raster, what's your latest image like? Oct 02 01:41:56 sexy? Oct 02 01:42:35 Fuck, and iphone is $800-1000... shit Oct 02 01:42:47 Dave? Oct 02 01:42:49 where? Oct 02 01:42:55 I'm still runnung 2007.2 'cause it does everything I need ATM. I've got FSO on my SD, but I can't even add contacts with it )-: Oct 02 01:43:05 if you take all the extra AT&T crap in to account, perhaps Oct 02 01:43:19 No Oct 02 01:43:22 CDMA Oct 02 01:43:34 Jongay, yeah, so am I Oct 02 01:43:36 it's awesome Oct 02 01:43:45 johngay: its a collection of software build using OE that happens to run on a freerunner... Oct 02 01:43:46 :) Oct 02 01:44:14 davo_: apply hk is sellting iphones unlocked for about %720 Oct 02 01:44:15 err Oct 02 01:44:17 $720 Oct 02 01:44:21 oh Oct 02 01:44:22 thats more like the "full price" Oct 02 01:44:26 right Oct 02 01:44:28 But how is it for daily use? Oct 02 01:44:30 ie at&t hasnt subsidised it Oct 02 01:44:38 whihc is about ballpark for smartphones Oct 02 01:44:48 johngay: doesnt have anything for daily use Oct 02 01:44:49 well its not so much subsidy as hiding it in the contract Oct 02 01:44:53 its pretty bare bones Oct 02 01:45:13 davo_: no such thing as a free lunch. subsidies are not free Oct 02 01:45:14 cheap Oct 02 01:45:16 the IPhone also has 3G + larger display (albeit lower res) + H.264 decode Oct 02 01:45:19 Raster, I buy from Japan Oct 02 01:45:25 someon pays.. somewhere. it coems back to haunt u sooner or later Oct 02 01:45:25 TANSTAAFL Oct 02 01:45:26 So perhaps it's more expensive Oct 02 01:45:29 lol Oct 02 01:45:32 no need to tell me that Oct 02 01:45:38 I was just debating the term Oct 02 01:45:47 and yeah, retail price Oct 02 01:45:50 I would use the euphemism "amortize" Oct 02 01:45:52 not cheap, off the boat shit Oct 02 01:45:56 Guess I'll stick with 2007 for a while still. Oct 02 01:46:02 davo ;) Oct 02 01:46:04 Johngay, yeah Oct 02 01:46:16 Johngay, I'm attempting to get the illume kbd working on 2007 at the moment :) Oct 02 01:46:25 If it works, it'll make it that much more awesome and usuable. Oct 02 01:46:35 (over that of all the other distros out there, for a while longer) Oct 02 01:48:05 Well, I still want to get Apples BT Keyboard for mine. Oct 02 01:48:40 Dave: sure... guess subsidy isnt the right word... "loan" might be better Oct 02 01:48:42 "_ Oct 02 01:48:48 its heavy glass is it not? Oct 02 01:48:59 hehe Oct 02 01:49:10 heavy glass? Oct 02 01:49:22 the apple BT keyboard Oct 02 01:49:37 You talkin' about the Apple keyboard, no, it's brushed aluminum, I think. Oct 02 01:50:23 i say one at best buy that looked like brusheb alum.. but was glass Oct 02 01:50:24 jUST LIKE ALL THEIR OTHER FLIMSY CRAP! Oct 02 01:50:34 a glass keyboard? Oct 02 01:50:43 sounds like even more epic fail than usual, from apple. Oct 02 01:50:49 Better than a glass hammer (-; Oct 02 01:50:50 it was very nice Oct 02 01:51:01 * davo_ caresses his iPhone and glares at Dave Oct 02 01:51:16 ipoon Oct 02 01:51:21 dude Oct 02 01:51:22 iPwn? Oct 02 01:51:22 haha Oct 02 01:51:27 At only $80, it's pretty nicely priced, for Apple too. Oct 02 01:51:33 apple makes cheap crap. Oct 02 01:51:40 What's surprising? Oct 02 01:52:04 * mwester has a hand-me-down iPod he was given to fix. Two of them even. Oct 02 01:52:16 "fix" Oct 02 01:52:22 as in, bob barker style? Oct 02 01:52:25 The first one was named "Poddy", so I had to name the second one "Porda". Oct 02 01:52:42 lol Oct 02 01:53:16 woot Oct 02 01:53:16 Where's porny? Oct 02 01:53:16 I booked my skydive today (-= Oct 02 01:53:19 or is that one yet to come? Oct 02 01:53:20 senate passed bailout Oct 02 01:53:27 Johngay, cool, can we push you out of a plane? Oct 02 01:53:42 Eh, won't help me much, personally. Oct 02 01:53:48 haha Oct 02 01:54:01 * raster awaits his treo650 Oct 02 01:54:04 I'm sorry Dave. You know I can not let you do that. Oct 02 01:54:21 Somebody teach the american car companies how to build something someone want to drive, and the economy here might pick up a bit. Oct 02 01:54:30 t last.. another plat5form to throw illume onto... Oct 02 01:54:38 I'm sorry John, you know I'm going to stab you in the face now. Oct 02 01:54:58 uh oh, it's Fxchip! Oct 02 01:54:58 I booted the zaurus image, or whatever that is, on my 650 last night -- rather cool. Oct 02 01:55:09 But what is that funny looking dinosaur on the screen? Oct 02 01:55:18 mwester: they *wanted* to drive SUVs and trucks :-/ Oct 02 01:55:19 FxChip, you're late, we're already dissing apple, and their cheap products, and poorly chosen service alliances. Oct 02 01:55:50 Dave is preparing to be burned at the stake for heresy Oct 02 01:55:57 We knew the senate was going to pass it, they wrote it. It's the house that needs to shoot it down again. Oct 02 01:56:08 fun Oct 02 01:56:23 I hope the House shoots it down again Oct 02 01:56:27 But apparently the Senate threw in some incentives Oct 02 01:56:27 mwester: opie i think Oct 02 01:56:38 mwester: don't worry. i'll brew u some 650 magic when i get mine Oct 02 01:56:39 :) Oct 02 01:56:43 Davo, if anything, YOU are the blasphemer here. Bring your fucking iPhone into #openmoko ! Oct 02 01:56:46 Anyway, I shall not grouse about things too much, I have my toys, and if the worst happens, I'll just have much more time to work on Om stuff ;) Oct 02 01:56:50 I say let the American Dollar go the way of the rubble Oct 02 01:56:57 * FxChiP has an iPhone Oct 02 01:57:14 Johngay, I take it you'll be dropping over cuba then, eh? Oct 02 01:57:14 rouble? Oct 02 01:57:18 ;) Oct 02 01:57:23 davo, haha Oct 02 01:57:29 either one, I suppose :P Oct 02 01:57:32 mwester: u can always get another job Oct 02 01:57:32 :) Oct 02 01:57:41 I'll just go back to Ireland. The Euro is still strong. Oct 02 01:57:42 raster, you offering? ;) Oct 02 01:57:48 mwester: who knows.. i might be hiring soon... Oct 02 01:57:51 The currency is strong with this one! Oct 02 01:57:59 Raster, where do we sign up? :) Oct 02 01:57:59 I can. I'm just tired of the two year here, two years there thing. Oct 02 01:58:12 Mwester, it's rough :\ Oct 02 01:58:14 hahahaha Oct 02 01:58:34 Intel is still holding my job there for me. Oct 02 01:58:52 heh heh Oct 02 01:59:38 I was makin' twice what I make here, but now it's more like 4 times since the dollar crashed. Oct 02 01:59:51 got more phones efl is going onto Oct 02 02:00:08 So what's funny is that now that my customer business has dried up for the short term, the assignment I got from my boss is entirely in... java. Gack! Oct 02 02:00:24 in major manufacturers Oct 02 02:00:44 mwester: GAAAACK! quit now! before it gets worse! Oct 02 02:00:50 hehe! Oct 02 02:01:09 The irony is rich indeed. Oct 02 02:01:13 But everyone codes in java now. Just ask Sun (-; Oct 02 02:01:20 huzzah! Oct 02 02:01:27 * raster slaps johngay with a trout Oct 02 02:01:30 My customers are all embedded, C and c++ -- automotive and medical. Oct 02 02:01:39 WHAT ARE YOU DOING THEN!? Oct 02 02:01:45 Right now? Oct 02 02:01:48 JAVA? Oct 02 02:01:49 I'm learning Java. Oct 02 02:01:50 What? Oct 02 02:01:57 Hahahahahahahahahaha Oct 02 02:02:02 javaids Oct 02 02:02:02 * Dave hands Mwester the red pill Oct 02 02:02:06 hehe! Oct 02 02:02:36 mwester: do you want us to put you down? Oct 02 02:02:37 Android, here I come! Oct 02 02:02:42 it will be less painful... Oct 02 02:03:20 haha Oct 02 02:03:22 Traitor :P Oct 02 02:04:02 I'm too stubborn for that! The good thing is that I get to pick my internal project -- so it has occurred to me that perhaps I can figure out how to write something on a phone stack. Oct 02 02:05:10 I guess You'll be getting the new G1, mwester? Oct 02 02:05:19 hehe Oct 02 02:05:26 Ooh, I wonder if I can get my boss to spring for that? Oct 02 02:05:46 Tell him you need ot for testing on. Oct 02 02:06:15 I'm afraid he'll probably send me one of the company-standard blackberries instead, though. Oct 02 02:06:43 I'll send it back to him with FSO on it... Oct 02 02:06:44 It's also half the price of the FR. You just need to open a google account and T-Mobile contract. Oct 02 02:07:24 Stay away from the crackberries!! Oct 02 02:07:28 not half the price Oct 02 02:07:34 bet its close to double Oct 02 02:07:34 CRACK Oct 02 02:07:48 u havent accounted for the load t1 gives u Oct 02 02:07:49 wester, hahaha Oct 02 02:07:50 >:) Oct 02 02:07:57 I sent the crackberry back after my new-hire training class; I paid for my own Treo instead. Oct 02 02:08:08 slick Oct 02 02:08:24 mwester: nice. Oct 02 02:08:40 mwester: btw - how was the boot into linux on the treo? Oct 02 02:08:43 $179. Oct 02 02:08:49 as i understand it u just stick kernel + root image on sd Oct 02 02:08:56 use cocboot (set it up to boot the right image names) Oct 02 02:08:59 The blackberry model scared me more than the closed phones do -- basically you get a pseudo-open phone, but it is remotely controlled and administered by your IT department -- Yikes! Oct 02 02:09:01 and away u go Oct 02 02:09:06 whee Oct 02 02:09:08 reset the phone to get back to palmos? Oct 02 02:09:11 raster - it was a breeze to boot it up. Oct 02 02:09:19 cool Oct 02 02:09:27 Simplest, easiest Linux install I've ever done on a device. Oct 02 02:09:29 so its as easy as it seems? Oct 02 02:09:38 :D Oct 02 02:09:41 palmos - AWESOME bootloader Oct 02 02:09:41 Yep. We need to do that for the FR. Oct 02 02:09:42 :) Oct 02 02:09:44 Seriouslly Oct 02 02:09:58 My friend got a trio, then he put WinCE on it !?!?!?!? Oct 02 02:10:09 ROFL Oct 02 02:10:14 To... make it better... !?!? Oct 02 02:10:27 We need a basic loader in flash, the SD card needs to be standard FAT32, the rootfs needs to be a file along with the kernel -- something so that the mass market users feel really comfortable with it. Oct 02 02:10:37 So he could get his Outlook E-Mails on it. Oct 02 02:10:47 That sounds like a terrible excuse Oct 02 02:10:48 mwester: we talked of this already @ om for gta04 Oct 02 02:11:01 andy etc. wanted an ext2 fs on sd Oct 02 02:11:13 i was much mroe inclined to fat32 + kernel image file and ext2 image file Oct 02 02:11:22 with the base fat32 also mounted Oct 02 02:11:31 Raster, why don't they ever listen to real people? Oct 02 02:11:42 Isn't there a way to cat the kernel and rootfs? Oct 02 02:11:44 too much blind design Oct 02 02:11:55 Yep. I have now seen that work raster, and I'm now a believer. Oct 02 02:12:00 (so if u put it in your pc all "data" files like photos, sms's, emails, etc. are sotred on the fta32 mount, and the ext2 image is only for instaleld software and ~/ for dot-files etc.) Oct 02 02:12:19 mwester: i was already a believer Oct 02 02:12:27 at first OS on sd was a bit of a "wtf" Oct 02 02:12:31 but i've warmed to it Oct 02 02:12:33 heavily Oct 02 02:12:40 I confess that I was one of the ones who thought ext3 on the sd card was the rigth way... Oct 02 02:12:50 ALL i think is needed is to esnure a very fast SDIO interface Oct 02 02:12:58 ie now its criticval path Oct 02 02:13:17 well, reliable would be nice too; we seem to have had some regressions in that area since the GPS SD clock fix came in. Oct 02 02:13:24 the ext2/3 image file shoudl eman symlinks and normal unix fs stuff works Oct 02 02:13:31 for root and packages and for ~/ Oct 02 02:13:50 and just make symlinks from ~/Data th the fat32 mount point Oct 02 02:13:51 It is easy to make it so for community releases. Oct 02 02:14:00 (well create a data dir on the fat32 and munt that) Oct 02 02:14:06 and put all "normal day to day" data there Oct 02 02:14:10 so its accessible on all pc's Oct 02 02:14:12 all os's Oct 02 02:14:14 everywhere Oct 02 02:14:23 u dont need linux to "Reflash" Oct 02 02:14:30 just put a new kernel and os image file on Oct 02 02:14:34 trivial to pack u Oct 02 02:14:38 (just zip the stuff up) Oct 02 02:14:43 err back up Oct 02 02:14:51 and all the day to day data Oct 02 02:14:54 like .txt notes Oct 02 02:14:58 photos, messages Oct 02 02:15:04 are acessible files for all os's Oct 02 02:15:12 u will pay a price for a ext2 loopback on fat Oct 02 02:15:14 but it should be small Oct 02 02:15:22 Very small I think. Oct 02 02:15:24 compared to the slow speed of sdio.... its nothing Oct 02 02:15:33 FAT is such a simple fs. Oct 02 02:15:35 as it is on fr Oct 02 02:15:44 sdio and flash speed are pretty much the same Oct 02 02:15:54 i think in theory flash shouldbe much faster Oct 02 02:15:56 but its not Oct 02 02:16:06 also u remvoe jffs2 complexity and overhead Oct 02 02:16:11 thats good Oct 02 02:16:17 but i'm with you Oct 02 02:16:25 anyone know if Nokia's maemo.org mobile linux OS is compatible with openmoko? Oct 02 02:16:34 arquebus: no. Oct 02 02:16:39 try mamona Oct 02 02:16:40 its closer Oct 02 02:16:45 raster, ok, thx Oct 02 02:16:48 arquebus: different ARM versions Oct 02 02:17:04 mwester-ah ok, didnt know Oct 02 02:17:05 different packaging systems Oct 02 02:17:09 different distribution Oct 02 02:17:11 ... Oct 02 02:17:38 It's not rasterOS, that's for sure :) Oct 02 02:17:47 mwester: definitely with u on the "os on sd card with fat32 fs and everything is either a kernel image file, a rootfs ext2/3 image and data files" Oct 02 02:18:46 http://doc.trolltech.com/qtextended4.4/index.html Oct 02 02:19:38 yeah yeah Oct 02 02:19:40 we know, we know Oct 02 02:20:06 Dave: that reminds me. i should build images for the n8xx too... Oct 02 02:20:21 That sounds great! Oct 02 02:20:35 I only have an N95 :| Oct 02 02:21:24 http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/10/thursdays-copyr.html Oct 02 02:22:23 Hmm? Oct 02 02:22:28 freesmartphone.org: 03rod 07fso-makefile * ra76501635024 10/Makefile: Use the org.openembedded.dev branch from the org.openembedded.dev trial git repo Oct 02 02:23:04 ugggh Oct 02 02:23:10 FUCK YOU, UDEV! Oct 02 02:23:39 udev has ridiculousness everywhere Oct 02 02:23:45 damn good system though Oct 02 02:24:12 I just wish the rules language didn't suck so hard Oct 02 02:24:23 It should be written in Perl. Oct 02 02:24:27 ;) Oct 02 02:24:46 so that the rules language can be completely un-understandable? Oct 02 02:24:46 so that the rules language can be completely un-understandable? Oct 02 02:24:50 sorry for the repeat Oct 02 02:24:51 but Oct 02 02:24:52 nothx Oct 02 02:24:59 It bore repeating. Oct 02 02:25:30 I'm still baffled. Oct 02 02:25:30 As an old co-worker told me, "if it was hard to write the code, doggone it it should be hard to read!" Oct 02 02:25:45 as my common sense tells me, "that is bullshit." Oct 02 02:25:46 HAHAHAHAH Oct 02 02:25:56 He also used vi. And claimed that a GUI and a mouse was for "feeble minds". Oct 02 02:26:09 He was a hoot, though. Oct 02 02:26:59 He's an idiot Oct 02 02:27:02 Actually, Python would be pretty cool, but I just can't get over the throw-back to column-sensitivity a la FORTRAN from 1821 or so. Oct 02 02:27:08 Who doesn't grasp the concept of multiple paradigms Oct 02 02:27:18 Column-sensitivity? Oct 02 02:27:27 EBCDIC? Oct 02 02:27:40 * mwester remembers punched cards, and EBCDIC. Oct 02 02:27:41 * Dave busts out his s390 Oct 02 02:27:43 \o/ Oct 02 02:37:42 aww, what happened to the raster debate. Oct 02 02:39:32 What's wrong with raster? Oct 02 02:39:44 raster's a pretty cool guy, eh codes enlightenment and doesn't afraid of anything Oct 02 02:39:47 debate? Oct 02 02:40:18 nite, all. Oct 02 02:41:23 webapps written in brainfuck! Oct 02 02:45:32 rofl Oct 02 02:48:05 raster: Yeah, you're going to debate Sarah Palin tomorrow. Oct 02 02:51:13 uhh Oct 02 02:52:53 i knew it, raster is joe biden Oct 02 02:53:29 Oh, he's not running for vice-president? It's these speeches, I'm telling you. Blowing my mind. Oct 02 02:55:34 is it difficult working with a secret muslim? Oct 02 02:59:43 parodyoflanguage: debate that stupid wench? fuck yeah! bring it on! Oct 02 02:59:44 :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Oct 02 02:59:57 2008