**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Oct 17 02:59:57 2008 Oct 17 03:00:36 imho there shoudl have just been a gradual move from gsmd+_2007 Oct 17 03:00:42 to newer improved tools/apps Oct 17 03:00:45 for basic phone stuff Oct 17 03:00:55 maybe replace 1 app at a time with a much better one Oct 17 03:00:59 and so on Oct 17 03:01:08 yeah...and then when you've got phone done Oct 17 03:01:10 i know e was workign great with the 2007.x stack to start with Oct 17 03:01:11 THEN worry about multiplexing Oct 17 03:01:13 as thats all i had to play with Oct 17 03:01:25 but that's so far down the road it's silly Oct 17 03:02:09 gsmd+2007 was seriously one ALSA script away from completely usable for me....well, that and a useful contact list, but I assume that's been fixed or so Oct 17 03:02:32 yupo Oct 17 03:02:39 and some gsmd + sim + calypso bugs Oct 17 03:02:50 too bad 2007 couldn't write to sim Oct 17 03:02:52 i was always thinking since there was a gsmd team Oct 17 03:02:55 that'd just get solved Oct 17 03:02:57 raster, do you provide a build of e for gta01, or just freerunner? Oct 17 03:03:06 and i was to work on making the ui ifra much better Oct 17 03:03:15 jadams_: just freerunner. dont have a gta01 Oct 17 03:03:19 mine went awol Oct 17 03:03:20 I didn't even need 2007 to write to sim! Just make a damn phone call reliably... Oct 17 03:03:36 He's got a build of e for a treo 650, so I think the neo will run it just fine. Oct 17 03:03:56 raster, alright, I'll gladly try a build for the gta01 Oct 17 03:04:12 I just got a quad core q6600 in today (parts, just finished the build + intrepid ibex install) Oct 17 03:04:31 so a build would give it something to fiddle on Oct 17 03:04:53 * mwester knows the q6600 overclocks very nicely Oct 17 03:06:24 some bugs? Oct 17 03:06:26 sheesh Oct 17 03:06:41 gsmd wasnt too far off Oct 17 03:06:55 i think it maybe just needed some epxert attention from some experienced developer(s) Oct 17 03:06:59 to clean it up a bit Oct 17 03:07:07 but then there were a host of calypso nasties too Oct 17 03:07:20 which is just a matter fo bizarre/buggy choice of gsm chip Oct 17 03:07:21 :) Oct 17 03:07:56 "bizarre/buggy" <---- polite and kind way of discribing the choice Oct 17 03:10:25 heheheh Oct 17 03:10:32 well theres reasons behind the choice Oct 17 03:10:37 and none of them technical Oct 17 03:10:53 let's call it "legacy cruft u are stuck with like it or not" Oct 17 03:11:06 Somebody was thinking "green", and in order to save the environment, they rescued them from a dumpster somewhere? Oct 17 03:11:20 hmmm Oct 17 03:11:22 no Oct 17 03:11:23 lucky dumpster Oct 17 03:11:26 i can't go into those details Oct 17 03:11:35 never made public - so company itnernal Oct 17 03:11:48 SECRETS! Oct 17 03:11:49 but if u knew them Oct 17 03:11:50 I know, water under the bridge... Oct 17 03:11:52 a lot of pins would drop Oct 17 03:11:59 rescued from a dumpster? Oct 17 03:12:01 sounds like me Oct 17 03:12:07 and u'd have the lightbulb of "ooooooh that explains a lot" go on. Oct 17 03:12:07 oh SHIT Oct 17 03:12:13 I mean... the pdas I got :P Oct 17 03:12:29 and yes Oct 17 03:12:33 water under the bridge Oct 17 03:12:35 all of it Oct 17 03:13:38 is there a troll there? Oct 17 03:14:57 sewage through the pipes Oct 17 03:15:01 most likely Oct 17 03:20:25 =] e17 just finished compiling successfully =] Oct 17 03:20:35 no need to go to bed now =D Oct 17 03:21:28 awwww Oct 17 03:21:33 jusrt after it compiles! Oct 17 03:21:34 :( Oct 17 03:23:27 raster: meant --> there's no need to go to bed now :p Oct 17 03:23:51 ooh Oct 17 03:23:51 oops Oct 17 03:23:54 missed "no" Oct 17 03:23:55 :) Oct 17 03:24:13 have to go to work in 3 hrs anyways ... so we'll skip the sleeping part tonight =] Oct 17 03:24:31 way to go Oct 17 03:24:49 :P Oct 17 03:24:53 shit Oct 17 03:24:59 more sources! Oct 17 03:25:02 I need to build it :[ Oct 17 03:25:05 my zires are lonely Oct 17 03:25:31 plus i have to try Doc's JK4401 GSM-EMI-noise "fix" Oct 17 03:25:48 soldering without sleep is always interesting Oct 17 03:27:19 36.4 megs for pidgin ?????? Oct 17 03:27:33 that does sound outrageous Oct 17 03:27:42 is it in debug or something? Oct 17 03:27:51 because i can compile a 3d engine in 22 megs in debug mode Oct 17 03:27:55 debian install Oct 17 03:28:27 apt-get install pidgin Oct 17 03:29:03 i have been enlightened ..... it's purdy Oct 17 03:29:35 the fr has apt-get? Oct 17 03:29:47 debian Oct 17 03:30:28 raster: what's you take on OzOs ? Oct 17 03:30:49 i think a large inclusion of plugind might be the problem Oct 17 03:30:57 raster: saw a link to it in ubuntu forums when i was reading up on enlightenment ... Oct 17 03:32:40 sicu: interesting Oct 17 03:32:44 i'm ,looking at it Oct 17 03:32:48 i just have been ketp ultra-busy Oct 17 03:33:49 raster: yeh, i've noticed Oct 17 03:34:20 * mwester returns from taking his vicious dog outside. Oct 17 03:34:22 raster: take it a little bit easy, so us mere mortals don't have to feel so guilty ;p Oct 17 03:37:58 hahaha Oct 17 04:15:52 how do you add words to the qtopia dictionary? Oct 17 04:19:50 with a turnip Oct 17 04:20:09 it should auto-learn no? Oct 17 04:20:17 i dunno Oct 17 04:20:41 it doesn't seem to learn people's names too well Oct 17 04:20:44 ie enter something not in its dict Oct 17 04:20:47 and it will be added Oct 17 04:21:07 i know illume's kbd does it Oct 17 04:21:12 kind of a necessity Oct 17 04:21:39 yeah, but illume's kbd doesn't give you a chance to pick a different word, only the first one you touch Oct 17 04:23:14 eh? Oct 17 04:23:18 yes it does Oct 17 04:23:31 it lists all matches above the keyboard Oct 17 04:23:39 left to riught with most likely in the middle Oct 17 04:23:48 right Oct 17 04:23:49 if the match isnt there (doesnt fit on the horizontal list) Oct 17 04:23:55 it'll be in the vertical popup Oct 17 04:24:00 (top-left of kbd - hit it) Oct 17 04:24:02 ? i never knew that Oct 17 04:24:04 neat Oct 17 04:24:08 and that also includes the actual letters u typed verbatim Oct 17 04:24:21 it can be a long list Oct 17 04:24:21 i do like the illume kbd's speed Oct 17 04:24:23 sometimes Oct 17 04:24:32 qtopia's kbd is fast tho Oct 17 04:24:34 but it's always been in the way because it doesn't have what i want to type Oct 17 04:24:35 its very good Oct 17 04:24:49 if u use more recent illumes Oct 17 04:24:52 illume's is fast to start Oct 17 04:24:52 they work better Oct 17 04:25:01 aaah Oct 17 04:25:16 qtopia's works just as fast as the rest of qtopia at any moment Oct 17 04:25:19 well its part of e (well illume is a module loaded by e - so it doesnt really "start" its just a window created) Oct 17 04:25:24 sometimes it's god-awfully slow Oct 17 04:25:26 don't know why Oct 17 04:25:41 (the qt one) Oct 17 04:25:48 has there been any testing on that? Oct 17 04:26:57 testing on? Oct 17 04:27:37 the qt kbd Oct 17 04:27:44 dunno Oct 17 04:27:52 i didnt like parts of its design Oct 17 04:27:56 (eg layout hard-coded) Oct 17 04:27:57 it just farts slow at times Oct 17 04:28:01 so i always avoided it Oct 17 04:28:07 well its part of qpe Oct 17 04:28:16 i do like it's seperation of symbols and numbers Oct 17 04:28:17 the bit qt process doing everything Oct 17 04:28:26 (much like e - the big process doing everything for e) Oct 17 04:29:19 damnit Oct 17 04:29:22 gotta finish this paper Oct 17 04:29:26 i'm going to be rather silent for a while Oct 17 04:30:56 ") Oct 17 04:36:50 can anyone recommend a good text editor for the fr? Oct 17 04:37:03 nano Oct 17 04:37:18 non-terminal options? Oct 17 04:37:42 emacs? Oct 17 04:37:56 hehe interesting Oct 17 04:41:48 sed/bash Oct 17 04:42:16 you guys are really helpful heh Oct 17 04:42:37 lol Oct 17 04:44:01 I'm looking for a good notetaking program where I can use the stylus to highlight/copy/paste etc. Oct 17 04:44:23 just a simple window with text in it is fine Oct 17 04:44:58 I'll try emacs with the gui... Oct 17 04:52:46 woohoo Oct 17 04:52:47 finally Oct 17 04:53:02 * BobOfDoom now has USB mouse connected and working - on Treo 650 XD Oct 17 04:59:10 BobOfDoom: dude Oct 17 04:59:18 how does your soldering effor look like? Oct 17 04:59:20 a nasty mess? Oct 17 04:59:21 :) Oct 17 05:00:51 raster: is there a wiki for illume in debian? is it doable? Oct 17 05:01:08 raster: yes, turns out the resistors are entirely unnecesary, but I do need to apply external power (since 650 has no hardware to supply the +5V for USB device) so it's not entirely waster effort Oct 17 05:01:25 raster: it looks like absolutely disgusting Oct 17 05:01:27 but it works :D Oct 17 05:01:55 grummel: no wiki - but doable Oct 17 05:02:00 how do u think its developed? Oct 17 05:02:03 with magic mushrooms? Oct 17 05:02:06 i do all the dev on ubuntu Oct 17 05:02:33 BobOfDoom: but.,.. its entirely non-portable Oct 17 05:02:41 raster: shrooms perhaps, ok that makes sense Oct 17 05:02:41 as having external power just is going to suck Oct 17 05:02:42 :( Oct 17 05:02:59 raster: right, but... *drum roll* Oct 17 05:03:07 lot of USB stuff can run off 3.7V Oct 17 05:03:13 hmmm Oct 17 05:03:14 and there's a 3.7V output on the treo's connector Oct 17 05:03:29 (but no pin in the cable , so it's hard to access :( ) Oct 17 05:03:45 :/ Oct 17 05:05:39 hmm Oct 17 05:05:48 so low-speed devices "just work" Oct 17 05:05:56 but for full-speed devices we need a hack Oct 17 05:06:05 turn on the pull-up register in the clien controller Oct 17 05:06:26 so that it's actually telling itself that there's a full speed device attached Oct 17 05:07:17 D+ pin is getting sucked down to zero Oct 17 05:07:25 D+ is used to detect full-speed Oct 17 05:07:28 D- for low speed Oct 17 05:10:48 freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * rde6c31e37c48 10/ (4 files in 2 dirs): oeventsd: DBusTrigger can be created from the rules file Oct 17 05:11:05 heh, i had so much pain doing usb device dev before. turns out it helps a lot if you don't misread the schematic and put the wrong pullup on... Oct 17 05:12:54 ...especially if coding on something very restricted and you make the assumption that you will only ever connect at full speed, and the host thinks different because of the state of D+ and D-... Oct 17 05:13:28 BobOfDoom: sounds like much pain Oct 17 05:13:44 yeah.. Oct 17 05:13:55 I think I can probably work around it in hardware Oct 17 05:14:00 by adding an extra pullup Oct 17 05:14:03 anyone having problems with qtextended and coming out of suspend? Oct 17 05:14:04 but it's gonna drain power Oct 17 05:14:19 alternatively, just have to make the user tell it when a full-speed USB device is conneted Oct 17 05:14:34 which is not so bad Oct 17 05:15:05 * BobOfDoom hunts for more USB devices to connect Oct 17 05:46:33 projects.openmoko.org has been down for many hours... Oct 17 05:51:51 it's working here .... Oct 17 05:52:23 Hmmm - I've tried from several machines, on different networks, and can't contact it. Oct 17 05:52:48 http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/projects.openmoko.org Oct 17 05:53:34 sicu, Wow - I'd not seen that service before. Thanks. Oct 17 05:53:46 KenYoung: np =] Oct 17 07:35:00 openmoko: 03marek * r4719 10/trunk/src/host/pye17/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [pye17] fix segfault on exit, add software_x11_16 support, and more functionality to sample script Oct 17 08:30:41 morning Oct 17 08:46:00 GPS problems *sigh* Oct 17 08:51:10 can anybody reproduce http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2073? Oct 17 09:08:39 maybe you should stop dereferencing null Oct 17 09:40:49 BobOfDoom: is your server (hackndev.com) having troubles? Oct 17 09:41:27 Kensan: seems like.. hmm Oct 17 09:41:57 it's not actually my server but I have root on that box so I'll see if i can fix it Oct 17 09:42:32 2008-10-17 09:42:16: (mod_fastcgi.c.2882) backend is overloaded; we'll disable it for 2 seconds and send the request to another backend instead: reconnects: 0 load: 387 Oct 17 09:42:38 hmm Oct 17 09:43:49 lightttpd... sounds like you might need more instances running :) Oct 17 09:44:48 Kensan: try now Oct 17 09:44:56 hi^^ Oct 17 09:45:00 it'd hung hard Oct 17 09:45:04 had to kill -9 it :/ Oct 17 09:45:29 BobOfDoom: ok cool it's up again :) Oct 17 09:49:57 openmoko: 03marek * r4720 10/trunk/src/host/pye17/ (6 files in 5 dirs): [pye17] fix segfault on create x11_16, fix "make examples" to update built bindings, remove some warnings Oct 17 10:02:27 if i need some specific packages out of an specific repository, how will i configure opkg? is there some useful tutorial? Oct 17 10:02:37 i cant find useful information how opkg works Oct 17 10:04:46 beni_: try researching ipkg or dpkg, i believe there's a lot of commonality. open to correction on that. Oct 17 10:06:18 freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * ra72889abf344 10/framework/subsystems/opimd/ (9 files): opimd: settings merged with framework settings Oct 17 10:07:09 cjb_ie: yes i already googled around but everywhere just stands "do this and do that" but not _why_ i should do this or that and how that works. Oct 17 10:07:38 dunno then - sorry Oct 17 10:07:54 it would be cool for example, to be able to stay on stable mostly except for packages that are not present in stable. Oct 17 10:08:05 but i dont get the idea how i could adjust that Oct 17 10:08:23 i think ist must have to do with the arch.conf file, but my tests where not successful. Oct 17 10:08:49 i think searching for 'pinning' may help. it's a bit of a black art to me, but that word seems to crop up related to that sort of requirement. Oct 17 10:17:05 that damn qpe Oct 17 10:17:15 scanning 8gb sdhc shit Oct 17 10:35:17 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r1c74c39b7662 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/ti_calypso/unsolicited.py: ogsmd: [TI CALYPSO]: lower recamping detect factor to 0.3 :/ Oct 17 11:49:44 are there some wiki-pages describing a bit more of the FSO than the UI Tutorial? Oct 17 11:49:55 I've just installed FSO 3 and would like to know a bit more about it Oct 17 11:50:06 like how to get updates for instance Oct 17 11:51:24 i think you just use opkg Oct 17 11:51:41 same repos as 2008.x ? Oct 17 11:54:04 pooze: no, fso feeds Oct 17 11:54:33 but there are no feeds for MS3, just testing and unstable Oct 17 11:54:53 http://downloads.freesmartphone.org/ Oct 17 11:56:16 which means that I'm either running MS3 (latest stable released image) or I'm running testing, which is not affected by the MS releases? Oct 17 12:08:03 hello all! boy I leave for a few weeks and it is quiet in here. ;) I must be the only one who gets up early and goes to the computer Oct 17 12:08:34 err, early in where? Oct 17 12:08:39 Infoport: psst, everybody is busy;) Oct 17 12:09:20 Tm_T oops, that's right...it's around lunch time in Europe Oct 17 12:09:35 hmm.. I had lunch 2,5 hours ago though.. Oct 17 12:09:36 no, it's way past lunch here Oct 17 12:09:41 or maybe return-from-lunch time Oct 17 12:09:54 more like "get back home" time for some (:) Oct 17 12:15:28 :) Oct 17 12:15:33 Infoport! Oct 17 12:15:44 Dave: ! Oct 17 12:16:08 there is a company in Netherlands offering 3D printing on demand, which should allow all the case-modders to design new Openmoko case expansions easily (Shapeways.com) Oct 17 12:16:26 hi there Dave! Oct 17 12:16:26 too expensive i would guess Oct 17 12:18:13 the slashdot-linked article said "less than $3 per square centimeter" (prob means cubic) Oct 17 12:18:22 Toggles :) Oct 17 12:18:36 :D Oct 17 12:18:46 infoport, cool Oct 17 12:19:10 a new case back wouldn't cost much at all by that figure, although I'm not sure how stiff a plastic is printed-- it might have to be used to mold a firmer piece Oct 17 12:21:25 TITANIUM Oct 17 12:22:41 wow! they are offering a new black material at 66.6% discount through the 19th, or $0.97/cm3 including shipping! I guess I'd better start putting some 3d models together Oct 17 12:23:31 hot Oct 17 12:23:37 oh sweet Oct 17 12:23:40 I wonder... Oct 17 12:27:03 it looks like Shapeways.com is encouraging people to create art, and other consumer items, but seems like its only limited by what you create (and material characteristics-- that's why it may be for prototypes rather than finished cases) Oct 17 12:34:24 i've created an account on shapeways some months ago Oct 17 12:34:34 unfortunately, i'm definitely not a designer :) Oct 17 12:35:01 KaZeR did you make anything? any thoughts about the materials? Oct 17 12:37:25 nop, didn't make anything. i was thinking of a case with a more solid plastic, or even a protection i could put on top of the current case Oct 17 12:38:45 you can get the cad models from openmoko Oct 17 12:40:06 yes, that's how i knew about shapeways Oct 17 12:40:31 KaZeR I was thinking of a rugged outer case too. I don't know what 3D program I would use though. The CAD files for the Neo seem to be in a format that isn't understood by the open source software I have downloaded Oct 17 12:40:57 i'd get myself a reprap and build my own case Oct 17 12:41:18 dns53 what software understands those CAD models? (something for Linux) Oct 17 12:41:19 reprap? Oct 17 12:41:30 dns53, hehe Oct 17 12:41:52 a friend'll probably print me the printable parts of a reprap once he gets his up and running Oct 17 12:41:58 it's a rapid prototyper that can make itself, it's a little crude at the moment but it does make itself Oct 17 12:42:07 well, it makes some 60% of itself Oct 17 12:42:18 it makes 100% now Oct 17 12:42:28 no it doesn't Oct 17 12:42:39 except for the pipes, motors and other stuff you can buy off the shelf Oct 17 12:42:55 must be expensive, no? Oct 17 12:42:59 so what you're saying, not 100% Oct 17 12:43:19 KaZeR, not especially Oct 17 12:43:58 I mean sure, it's not cheap as fuck yet, but it's pretty cheap as fuck in comparison to, well, comparable devices Oct 17 12:44:33 three-digit sums to get up and running in the most popular currencies methinks Oct 17 12:45:03 i think someone was selling them, it's kind of cool anyway Oct 17 12:45:08 see www.reprap.org Oct 17 12:45:39 yes, bitsfrombytes.com sells a mechanical frame kit, and the electronics you could get elsewhere Oct 17 12:45:43 "some assembly required" Oct 17 12:46:49 anyway, not sure if it'll build "rugged" cases yet... but as said, I'm planning on getting one Oct 17 12:47:42 I'm wondering of some kind of waller for neo and keyb for it Oct 17 12:47:52 wallet I mean Oct 17 12:48:12 *nod*, well, my keyboard grabs onto the neo anyway, but for that kinda thing it could work well Oct 17 12:48:28 mjr: what keyb? Oct 17 12:48:54 * Tm_T is in need of well working keyboard for mobile use Oct 17 12:49:40 i have an eeepc for that Oct 17 12:49:43 that thing, but I think it's not manufactured anymore, might still be around in some stores; http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/freedom-mini-bluetooth-keyboard-for-cellphones-finally-available-203385.php Oct 17 12:50:17 it's not great, but it has the spring-loaded hinge, and it's "ok" for the type of board Oct 17 12:50:39 dns53: I don't and wont prolly Oct 17 12:51:12 mjr: aaa freedom mini... maybe that could work Oct 17 12:52:49 looks like it is missing quite a few keys...wish I could see the keyboard better and see if it has @/.: Oct 17 12:53:24 mjr: there's alt or equiv, right? and ctrl, I forgot what it has Oct 17 12:54:11 I has been thinking of homemade halfkeyboard Oct 17 12:56:06 grm no gps input from tangogps Oct 17 12:56:22 I run the "echo 1 > /sys/....." and it's set to 1 Oct 17 12:56:41 also running fsm-gpsd in bg. anything else to look for? Oct 17 13:11:14 hey nyu Oct 17 13:11:48 hi Dave Oct 17 13:25:02 moin Oct 17 13:25:57 0x7c0104bc Oct 17 13:47:28 what's the best scenario file to use to be able to phone? gsmhandset ? Oct 17 13:48:06 * Tm_T started rolling SimCity scenarios in his/her/its mind Oct 17 13:48:26 Tm_T, monsters? Oct 17 13:48:37 hehe :) Oct 17 13:48:51 i was talking of /usr/share/openmoko/scenarios/*.state :) Oct 17 13:49:19 emacsen: no monsters, scenario files Oct 17 13:50:10 KaZeR: yes gsmhandset is the default file that gets loaded when calling Oct 17 13:50:39 oh like "Look, no one has power you jerk" Oct 17 13:51:20 bipak_, thanks. it gets loaded from the scenario directory? so no need to overwrite /etc/asound.state? Oct 17 13:52:16 KaZeR: correct. gsmhandset getsloaded from /usr/share/openemoko/scenerios and after the call /etc/asound.state is restored Oct 17 13:52:43 ok thanks Oct 17 13:52:44 so if you want to change the call volume you need to change the gsmhandset file Oct 17 13:53:02 ok thanks Oct 17 13:53:07 np :) Oct 17 13:53:35 do you have recommanded values? i just made a call, friend had no echo but can't almost hear me Oct 17 13:54:26 with the echo fixes you can pull the mic2 and speaker volumes up to 100% Oct 17 13:54:43 without echo fixes.. i don't know. you should try it out Oct 17 13:57:14 mmm. how do i know if i have the echo fix? Oct 17 13:57:25 http://wiki.debian.org/DebianOnFreeRunner is this guide up2date? Oct 17 13:57:42 (i currently run Fat_and_Dirty_OM.200809_20080927) Oct 17 14:01:32 does anybody know of free Linux software that will understand the CAD files provided by Openmoko? ie. in formats like ProE, STEP, IGES? Oct 17 14:02:03 hey guys, now i know this is really not an openmoko question, and i'll probably get bitch-slapped for this, but anyone has recommendations for a smartphone with windows mobile, wifi, bluetooth, and gprs/2.5G/3G? Oct 17 14:02:15 KaZeR: replace /opt/Qtopia/.... with this file Oct 17 14:02:18 http://downloads.tuxfamily.org/3v1deb/openmoko/libficgta01vendor-echo-cancellation.so.tar.gz Oct 17 14:02:24 thanks bipak_ Oct 17 14:02:27 make a backup of the old one before ,) Oct 17 14:02:30 sure :) Oct 17 14:02:39 would you mind to share your state file meanwhile? Oct 17 14:02:49 mom Oct 17 14:03:10 http://danielnoethen.de/gsmhandset.state Oct 17 14:03:31 thanks Oct 17 14:03:48 fix is common to gta01 & gta02, right? Oct 17 14:04:03 yes Oct 17 14:04:13 CAD files are free, but I can't seem to use them without paying for software... Oct 17 14:04:14 thank you :) Oct 17 14:04:23 gta02 is still named gta01 in qtopia... Oct 17 14:05:28 is there anything i nthe wiki about rasters build yet? Oct 17 14:07:32 why should there be? Oct 17 14:10:16 later! Oct 17 14:10:24 before! Oct 17 14:10:33 sooner! Oct 17 14:11:53 can i have a link to your build raster:) Oct 17 14:12:47 uh. i almost became deaf. i was making a testcall for bipak_'s settings, a message arrived at the same time, and the phone started to make some kind of larsen effect Oct 17 14:13:12 slaxxin: rasterman.com has links Oct 17 14:13:17 i gave all the info Oct 17 14:13:22 think ya Oct 17 14:14:49 raster: ! you got ./-ed, did it hurt? ;-) Oct 17 14:15:15 KaZeR: uuh :( Oct 17 14:15:32 output volume too high? Oct 17 14:15:37 hmm strange Oct 17 14:16:49 toggles_w: i live in a /. proof bunker deep underground Oct 17 14:17:05 sweet Oct 17 14:17:07 lol Oct 17 14:17:50 Memcached protected doors. Oct 17 14:18:11 KaZeR: did you restart X after replacing the file? Oct 17 14:19:26 just checking if i was blind or not Oct 17 14:19:29 hmm Oct 17 14:19:34 i cant find an edit button on this page Oct 17 14:19:36 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Improving_user_experience Oct 17 14:20:15 bipak_: lol Oct 17 14:20:48 bipak_, yes i did. just got another call.. damn my head hurt :) Oct 17 14:20:56 toggles_w: thats not funny ;) Oct 17 14:21:08 lol yes it is ;-) Oct 17 14:21:47 KaZeR: hmmm. can't explain that. for me its good. but i use 2008.9.. Oct 17 14:22:19 ok. i'll try to play a bit with the settings. i should lower the mic, right? Oct 17 14:22:38 the speaker volume Oct 17 14:22:41 ok Oct 17 14:22:49 btw, can you send sms from ssh? Oct 17 14:23:17 i don't know Oct 17 14:23:28 should be possible Oct 17 14:23:37 or use VNC :) Oct 17 14:23:40 thats funny Oct 17 14:23:46 toggles_w: where is it? :D Oct 17 14:24:12 hepaajan_, in fact ssh -X should work. what's the sms app name? Oct 17 14:24:36 bipak_: lol the page might get too big for google to archive if ther put one on Oct 17 14:24:47 grmmm why did i use tab here. sorry for the highlight Oct 17 14:25:16 no "how to manualy use sms" on the wiki? Oct 17 14:25:30 someone should have created a cli smstool Oct 17 14:25:47 toggles_w: lol. so how can we vote? *confused* Oct 17 14:26:57 bipak_: logged in? Oct 17 14:27:00 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SMS Oct 17 14:27:04 zash: depends what you use Oct 17 14:27:12 Tm_T: aah found the button! Oct 17 14:27:18 looked for something in orange Oct 17 14:27:22 on fso you can do it easly with small python script Oct 17 14:27:49 torindel: dbus call, right? Oct 17 14:28:03 so it should work with just a dbus client Oct 17 14:28:23 .. from cli Oct 17 14:28:25 I am looking for GPS traces of cell phones...is this data available somewhere ? Oct 17 14:28:28 * zash <3 cli Oct 17 14:28:30 zash: (for working example see zhone ;] if you use fso) Oct 17 14:28:52 as you can do the same but without gui Oct 17 14:29:04 * zash has no neo :( Oct 17 14:29:06 yet Oct 17 14:40:05 zash: it's the one Oct 17 15:09:54 untill the repacement noeo is born Oct 17 15:10:10 l* Oct 17 15:11:14 the "KEEP IT SIMPLE " approach is the better plan Oct 17 15:17:56 Infoport: the best would be to tell the "design guys" to export the CAD files as STL Oct 17 15:18:25 Infoport: or you could try something like: http://on-the-web.ch/3dc/ or http://www.hpfem.jku.at/netgen/ Oct 17 15:21:01 i know Blender has support for STL though Oct 17 15:43:35 i was wondering, is it actually possible to install android on openmoko? Oct 17 15:43:46 well probably possible, but has it been done before? :D Oct 17 15:44:56 no Oct 17 15:45:15 ask again when the sources are released Oct 17 15:45:34 mickeyl: o, i thought they had, my bad :> Oct 17 15:46:04 bakarat: nope, not even the beta ;) Oct 17 15:46:20 Kensan: dang... Oct 17 15:46:24 i thought it was supposed to be open source? Oct 17 15:46:56 bakarat: well many companies say they do the "open source" thing... many of them have yet to follow through. Oct 17 15:47:11 Kensan: that sux :( Oct 17 15:47:12 bakarat: let's hope google does. Oct 17 15:47:35 Kensan: i would buy an openmoko in an instant if a) i could testdrive it at my local store b) i wasn't discouraged by people in this very channel for using it as a daily phone :D Oct 17 15:47:53 Android kernel sources are available. Oct 17 15:48:11 I imagine the rest will be released once T-mo is shipping phones. Oct 17 15:48:41 * mwester loves optimism on a Friday morning Oct 17 15:48:46 bricode: really? mind to share the source? Oct 17 15:48:52 i've followed this guide : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/BitBake trying to build a package, but it fails miserably : http://pastebin.com/d51f9a147 can anyone help? Oct 17 15:49:32 Kensan: http://git.android.com/ Oct 17 15:49:46 Kensan: I've got a kernel with the Android patches running on the FR. Oct 17 15:50:04 i use it daliy and its pretty good Oct 17 15:50:49 jones: main functionality i'm looking for atm is gps / calendar syncing / voip (off the top of my head) Oct 17 15:51:00 bricode: cool. Oct 17 15:51:02 i odnt have nay of that Oct 17 15:51:19 thats mostly because i cant get through my uni network with it Oct 17 15:52:30 that commitmsg sounds interesting: http://git.android.com/?p=kernel.git;a=commit;h=5f6b6b5d3525ed032d070625358c81f4f19254ea Oct 17 15:53:34 Kensan: From my understanding they're trying to push some of the kernel patches upstream, but are running into a bit of resistance. Oct 17 15:54:26 bricode: how come? Are they going via the arm subsystem (Russel)? Oct 17 15:55:20 bricode: I thought they had longstanding kernel hackers on board... at least Robert Love shows up in the commit log... Oct 17 15:55:42 Kensan: I'm not totally sure, but I think it's because they're touching/exposing stuff in various subsystems...ie: vm management, network stuff etc. Oct 17 15:56:01 Kensan: They do, but making changes to the kernel and having them accepted into mainline are two different things. Oct 17 15:56:36 bricode: sure, but if you have longstanding kernel hackers, they know a lot about the process etc so the patches should be in much better shape. Oct 17 15:56:37 Kensan: The good news is that the patches created from the Android git apply fairly cleanly against the OM kernel git. Oct 17 15:57:07 bricode: d'you happen to know what they have touched? Oct 17 15:57:11 Kensan: I don't think it's a matter of semantics, but underlying theory. Oct 17 15:58:35 bricode: please elaborate Oct 17 15:59:04 Kensan: To be honest, I haven't been fully tracking it. Oct 17 15:59:08 Kensan: http://pastebin.ca/1229463 Oct 17 15:59:39 Kensan: Note, slashes replaced by underscores. Oct 17 16:00:39 bricode: yeah, I cloning the repos right now. gonna have a gander myself :) Oct 17 16:03:43 has anyone tried rasterman's image? Does it have phone services running? Oct 17 16:06:23 lively conversation today Oct 17 16:06:41 break_free: it does not contain any telephony apps Oct 17 16:07:02 break_free: or any other apps besides the alarm clock. It's simply rasters devel image. Oct 17 16:08:53 is there a chance of seeing that interface on ASU? It looks real nice from the videos Oct 17 16:09:02 or installing it in ASU Oct 17 16:11:03 :) Oct 17 16:11:48 Dave: Why you so smiley? Oct 17 16:12:33 :D Oct 17 16:13:05 break_free: well you can install all the phone apps on top of rasters image. Oct 17 16:15:05 Kensan: show me the howto! ;-) Oct 17 16:15:46 toggles_w: put the feed. opkg install "all-the-stuff-you-want" Oct 17 16:15:50 toggles_w: something like that? ;) Oct 17 16:16:12 Maybe do the same thing as with the base image: http://onlinedev.blogspot.com/2008/10/getting-started-with-base-image.html Oct 17 16:16:27 look at the 'install phone software' Oct 17 16:17:01 is GPS working on recent builds? Oct 17 16:17:11 for simple logging Oct 17 16:25:38 when backing up kernel, is it best to use dfu or scp ? Oct 17 16:27:13 or perhaps it doesn't matter ? Oct 17 16:35:47 anyone familiar with bitbake ? Oct 17 16:36:52 KaZeR: ask away, if nobody knows the answer to you question nobody will answer. Oct 17 16:36:59 i've followed this guide : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/BitBake trying to build a package, but it fails miserably : http://pastebin.com/d51f9a147 can anyone help? Oct 17 16:38:38 KaZeR: the sha1 does not seem to exist in the andy-branch. Oct 17 16:38:48 KaZeR: are you sure it's the correct branch? Oct 17 16:39:18 mmm.. i've followed (and understood) each steps of the doc from the wiki Oct 17 16:42:29 KaZeR: well /home/kazer/moko/openmoko/packages/linux/linux-openmoko-devel_git.bb does not contain a valid hashid for the kernel I guess. I think it should fetch from the stable branch and not andy... Oct 17 16:42:46 mmm Oct 17 16:43:00 how can i switch branch? Oct 17 16:44:11 KaZeR: hm the bb-recipe should specify all that. Oct 17 16:47:40 hmm i think the path should be /home/kazer/moko/build/tmp/staging instead of /home/kazer/moko/build//staging Oct 17 17:05:48 iwc, might be right. i changed it, it's rebuilding the cache. let's cross fingers :) Oct 17 17:05:59 Kensan, i found nothing about the branch in the bb Oct 17 17:07:46 KaZeR: what packge/image are you actually trying to build? Oct 17 17:08:03 navit_svn Oct 17 17:08:22 i got the fetch error, but it got past Oct 17 17:09:43 erm Oct 17 17:10:30 it fails in fact Oct 17 17:11:18 KaZeR: maybe you should get it to use the stable kernel not the devel_git one Oct 17 17:11:31 Kensan, i'd love too Oct 17 17:13:38 KaZeR: try bitbake -g navit_svn Oct 17 17:13:57 KaZeR: it should spit out a dot graph. Maybe you can see where the kernel gets sucked in and fix that dependency Oct 17 17:13:59 ah, i already tweaked the kernel bb file Oct 17 17:15:50 i removed the branch part, it seems to go further Oct 17 17:16:34 ah time to lunch. thanks for your help Oct 17 17:20:04 LUNCH. Oct 17 17:41:58 when is someone going to make an open cellphone like this: http://openpandora.org/ Oct 17 17:49:11 'course, that isn't actually open Oct 17 17:49:23 'nings all :) Oct 17 17:49:41 at least the powervr stuff Oct 17 17:49:56 has anyone got paroli working under fso/raster Oct 17 17:54:43 Tigs Oct 17 17:54:48 haha fso/raster Oct 17 17:54:57 LOL! Oct 17 17:59:26 'nings Dave Oct 17 17:59:43 I am running raster's image with some FSO doobries bolted on Oct 17 18:00:51 it is just as useful as all the other images I have tried and it looks a lot nicer and boots in under 1 week Oct 17 18:01:17 does it ship with any nice apps? Oct 17 18:01:56 emacsen, doesn't ship with much as it is more of a test bed image for gui stuff Oct 17 18:02:15 Tig|, fair nuff. The gui on the current apps suck Oct 17 18:02:25 qtopia is slightly nicer Oct 17 18:02:29 so only a terminal a screenshot app and the world's nicest alarm clock config app :) it is really nice :) Oct 17 18:02:38 does that image have the kernel that has the long bat life? Oct 17 18:02:49 no idea only just flashed it :) Oct 17 18:03:06 it is a recent fso kernel afaics Oct 17 18:03:13 I may need to try it Oct 17 18:03:21 wifi work? Oct 17 18:03:53 not tried wifi or gsm yet as I have put my spare sim in another phone Oct 17 18:04:56 wifi is a biggun for me Oct 17 18:05:01 emacsen: since it's being built entierly in openembedded it's the kernel that gets built with those recipes. Oct 17 18:05:35 gotcha Oct 17 18:06:25 whoops zhone config just segged enlightenment and now I have a console screen with the error: Naughty Programmer Spank Spank Spank Now Go and fix your code tut tut tut :) Oct 17 18:07:04 very helpful error message raster... Oct 17 18:07:32 Tig|: please do spank him when you see him. Oct 17 18:07:51 emacsen, it does give a proper error first :) Oct 17 18:07:56 oh ok Oct 17 18:11:47 what kernel should I use with the FDOM 20080927? Oct 17 18:12:13 mmm. i have the same bitbake issue with the master branch : http://pastebin.com/d2f191bb9 Oct 17 18:12:33 the theme really knocks the socks off the other ones though :) Oct 17 18:16:45 KaZeR: where does that (c0a2797d7ba8f6e07187794ccd2664ca3209b613) hashid come from? it does not seem to exist. Oct 17 18:17:14 i wish i knew :) Oct 17 18:17:27 KaZeR: grep the conf files Oct 17 18:17:50 ./openmoko/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc:SRCREV_pn-linux-openmoko-devel ?= "c0a2797d7ba8f6e07187794ccd2664ca3209b613" Oct 17 18:23:14 KaZeR: maybe you would want to replace that with a sane hash id Oct 17 18:24:12 Kensan, how can i determine a sane hash id? Oct 17 18:24:59 KaZeR: which branch are you using? stable or andy? Oct 17 18:25:39 KaZeR: if it's stable try this one: "933f18caaf8f96d1094f064312d416a2fe0b4337" Oct 17 18:26:49 ok thanks Oct 17 18:29:00 hello everybody Oct 17 18:29:31 mozilla's released fennec beta 1, do you think it can run on OM ? Oct 17 18:31:20 lol I just read that not 5 minutes ago Oct 17 18:31:47 hey guru :) Oct 17 18:32:07 Dave: afternoon Oct 17 18:32:12 Kensan, looks much better, thanks (ERROR: Nothing PROVIDES 'navit_svn' (but '[]' DEPENDS on or otherwise requires it)) Oct 17 18:32:31 KaZeR: eh... that error does not look better imho :) Oct 17 18:32:34 Kensan, the /sane-srcrevs.inc should be updated then no? Oct 17 18:32:38 KaZeR: so the kernel built? Oct 17 18:33:00 at least, this part didn't fail/cry : NOTE: Handling BitBake files: \ (6080/6080) [100 %] Oct 17 18:33:08 usually it would cry at 42% Oct 17 18:35:11 Kensan, trying to build navit instead of navit svn seems to work (task 23 out of 1848) Oct 17 18:35:42 ok Oct 17 18:35:48 so it's going to be a while ;) Oct 17 18:35:51 where should i report this sane-srcrevs.inc error? i'm probably not the only one having it? Oct 17 18:35:53 yes indeed :D Oct 17 18:36:03 i should have time'd it Oct 17 18:36:44 hi there :) Oct 17 18:38:28 Na-Gateaux: fennec seems to be in openembedded Oct 17 18:38:34 Na-Gateaux: you could try to build it Oct 17 18:38:55 KaZeR: maybe the error already got fixed? Oct 17 18:38:59 KaZeR: let me check Oct 17 18:39:50 Kensan, i updated my git right before testing Oct 17 18:40:46 KaZeR: maybe andy has rebased his git tree. Oct 17 18:41:09 KaZeR: you should probably report it in the openmoko-trac ticketing system. Oct 17 18:41:33 my question in fact it just "should i report this error, and where". i could easily make a fresh test tommorow or in two days and see if the problem is still there Oct 17 18:42:24 There is a problematic node in the latest planet-latest.osm.bz2 file. Look here: http://pastebin.com/d63ec9b68 Oct 17 18:43:00 note that the node 304700423 does not appear in any " What I don't understand is that the online version actually has the value of the node! Oct 17 18:45:07 mapmagic, from #navit where the issue was discussed yesterday : Oct 17 18:45:09 Magicblaze007, the planet.osm is full of ways which refer non existing nodes Oct 17 18:45:09 Unfortunately osm doesn't get the database right Oct 17 18:45:09 Once I fixed all that occurrences, but they appeared again Oct 17 18:45:09 I opened a ticket and their response was "we won't fix this until we have transactions" Oct 17 18:45:39 KaZeR: Thanks a lot. I missed cp15s answer. Oct 17 18:45:51 KaZeR: I think reporting it would be good if it's not reported before that is. Don't ask me how one can sensibly search for a ticket in trac : I don't know. Oct 17 18:45:58 mapmagic, no problem Oct 17 18:46:09 Kensan, hehe thanks :) Oct 17 18:46:27 * Kensan wonders why OM moved from bugzilla to trac... Oct 17 18:46:49 actually, i prefer trac over bugzilla. more user friendly imo Oct 17 18:46:49 What I don't understand is that on the web, the node shows up ok. Just the planet.osm file does not have the node definition. This means that the process that exports the web data to an osm file might have a bug? Oct 17 18:47:01 mapmagic, possible, indeed Oct 17 18:47:36 KaZeR: IMHO not the ticketing part. I have yet to find out how one can search for tickets... Oct 17 18:48:28 well, what's wrong with typing your search in the search box? sane-srcrevs.inc gives me only 3 results, which doesn't seem related to my issue Oct 17 18:49:20 Kensan, (it wasn't meant to be rude or anything, i just don't see yet what bother you) Oct 17 18:53:11 KaZeR: how do I search for "kernel" tickets related to GTA01? Oct 17 18:53:18 for example Oct 17 18:55:04 KaZeR: afaik one would have to do a "custom query", add filters one by one etc. Oct 17 18:55:28 KaZeR: In Bugzilla you could do it via advanced search features, all accesible in one mask. Oct 17 18:55:44 ah ok Oct 17 18:55:45 KaZeR: but it's more a matter of taste I guess. Oct 17 18:56:33 KaZeR: and by the way: if you would want to be rude to me, you would need to try a lot harder *hehe* Oct 17 18:56:45 hehe good to know :) Oct 17 18:57:24 i'm just cautious, sometimes on a text-only media like irc words can be misinterpreted Oct 17 18:57:26 so whom can we ask questions about planet.osm being bad?? Oct 17 18:57:37 KaZeR: true. Oct 17 18:58:43 mapmagic: #openstreetmap ? Oct 17 18:59:31 mapmagic, Brett, author of osmosis? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/User:Brett Oct 17 18:59:35 any particular person who is responsible to generate planet-latest.osm.bz2? Oct 17 18:59:42 hey, looks like I'm getting an autorev FSO image compiled... Oct 17 19:00:13 mapmagic: You should probably ask in the #openstreetmap channel. Oct 17 19:00:32 Will do, thanks. Oct 17 19:02:33 between 2008.9, fso and shr, which one should be the more stable/daily usable? Oct 17 19:04:31 KaZeR: Depends on your needs, honestly. Oct 17 19:04:49 But add Qtopia/QT Extended to the list if you wish it to act like a cellular phone in any way. Oct 17 19:05:05 mwester: oh there you are :) Oct 17 19:05:27 i tested qtopia & qtextended. i have to agree that they look great, and behave quite well Oct 17 19:05:39 mwester: how is the GTA01 patch doing? Has GPS improved? Oct 17 19:05:42 i only had the echo issue, and the deregistering one Oct 17 19:05:59 :) I are here. I am supposed to be doing work, but I am afraid of losing my soul if I spend too much time with this Java project. Oct 17 19:06:17 GTA01 patch is done and submitted; Andy is travelling so it won't appear for a while. Oct 17 19:06:30 Hmm, what? Oct 17 19:06:32 mwester: tread carefully in java land... Oct 17 19:06:37 eww, Java... Oct 17 19:06:41 it smells bad :[ Oct 17 19:06:55 KaZeR: FSO probaby has the best support for fixing the echo and deregister problems; i think you'll have to wait for the next Qt Extended release to pick those fixes up. Oct 17 19:07:29 mwester: are you testing self-built/test kernels with qemu? Oct 17 19:07:37 so how is openmoko comming along? Oct 17 19:07:46 ive been running openezx on my motorola a780 Oct 17 19:07:52 SHR is looking for testers, and looks good. 2008.9 is, IMO, not even worth flashing on your phone. It was doomed from inception, and is doomed still. Oct 17 19:07:53 wanting to get a phone with openmoko on it too Oct 17 19:08:10 wootdub: rather tough question. Oct 17 19:08:21 mwester: *nod* Oct 17 19:08:23 Kensan: I have no patience for qemu, and much of what I mess with requires a real device anyway. Oct 17 19:08:46 mwester, are the SHR images for the FR? there are only GTA01 on the shr bearstech buildhost Oct 17 19:09:02 Tig|: I suspect the autobuilder hasn't gotten to the GTA02 images yet. Oct 17 19:09:09 mwester: right on. I was messing with mdev/udev etc but it's a bit of a hassle to debug. I though maybe qemu could help. Oct 17 19:09:16 There's been a lot of churn in the OE repository lately, much of it forcing total rebuilds. Oct 17 19:09:35 mwester, it has been like that for ages I have checked every few days Oct 17 19:09:36 mwester: yeah noticed that. Is it because of the move from mtn to git? Oct 17 19:10:13 Partially the git move, but a few things that just seemed to be worth changing during the disruption. Oct 17 19:10:30 would it be worth it for me to flash my phone and put openmoko on it? ive heard that i can dual boot Oct 17 19:11:01 Tig|: My local FSO build built both 01 and 02; there must be something else wrong with the feeds then. Give it time, the folks running those autobuilders are volunteers. Oct 17 19:11:12 mwester, thanks for the infos. i've been told ealier today in #qtopia that latest 4.3.3 should include the echo patch, but trying to make a call just make qtopia to crash for me Oct 17 19:11:55 Hmm... Oct 17 19:12:00 mwester, so, a good way would be FSO on phone and SHR on SD? is it worth using a distro from SD? speed, etc? Oct 17 19:12:14 who usable is FSO? Oct 17 19:12:32 wootdub: it depends on what you want to do with it. Oct 17 19:13:07 i want to play with it Oct 17 19:13:12 but keep my phone working Oct 17 19:13:16 only one way to find out! :) Oct 17 19:13:16 You'll have to make the determination on usability of FSO and SHR yourself. Frankly, none of the distros meet my minimum requirement to be my "only" phone at the moment, for various reasons. But Qtopia has come the closest. And 2008.x is the farthest away. Oct 17 19:13:50 thanks mwester. i might go back to qtopia then. 4.4 or 4.3 ? Oct 17 19:14:04 also, anyone has an opinion about using a distro from the uSD? Oct 17 19:14:07 agree, now if they only can make the volume better and get rid of the echo Oct 17 19:14:10 wootdub: dual boot would be a function of the image for your phone, not of the software itself -- so you would need to see fi the underlying bootloader adn Linux for that hardware can do it. Oct 17 19:14:29 wootdub: if you can dualboot then sure. :) Oct 17 19:14:50 KaZeR: 4.4.1 has some bugs, and many folks find them to be worse than the 4.3 images... Oct 17 19:15:21 mwester, actually, i was able to make some calls with 4.4 :) Oct 17 19:15:34 (with echo, etc, but at least it didn't crash) Oct 17 19:15:40 i might give 4.3 another try tomorrow Oct 17 19:15:41 Me too. At this point I have a rather modified 4.4.1 version that I run. Oct 17 19:15:51 modified? Oct 17 19:16:24 Yes. I used Qtopia and QT Extended to test the bouncy calypso problem and the workaround for it (bug #1024) Oct 17 19:16:43 So that's where the proof-of-concept patches were written. Oct 17 19:16:52 andred, does the workaround works as you expected? Oct 17 19:17:12 damn it Oct 17 19:17:14 The workaround is both as good and as bad as expected. Oct 17 19:17:14 *and* Oct 17 19:17:24 lol. wallpainting, right ? :) Oct 17 19:17:48 It fixes the bounce, but the cost is that the GSM can *never* enter deep sleep, so you'll never have the battery life you would have if the real problem were to be fixed. Oct 17 19:18:00 KaZeR: lpotter put it also into 4.3.3, did you noticed re-registering? Oct 17 19:18:04 No, the "spackling" or wallpapering did not work. Oct 17 19:18:23 malik1972, no re-registering. but no call for me when i tried it Oct 17 19:18:33 How are you gentlemen? Oct 17 19:18:35 The workaround is to send an undocumented command to the GSM to cause it to disable "deep sleep" mode. Oct 17 19:18:40 Mwester :[ Oct 17 19:18:41 KaZeR: i know, i have the same problem Oct 17 19:18:52 Is that what the problem or crappy workaround was? Oct 17 19:19:03 Furthermore, have you updated your calypso page indicating such? Oct 17 19:19:14 I enjoyed reading it the first time :) Oct 17 19:19:16 malik1972, indeed, just found back our chat from earlier today :) Oct 17 19:19:29 Yes, the page was updated, and so was the bug -- but the page could use a re-do because it's not real obvious. Oct 17 19:19:36 (I don't do web sites very well) Oct 17 19:19:41 That's okay. Oct 17 19:19:44 We still like you :) Oct 17 19:20:06 * mwester sheds a tear for joy... Oct 17 19:20:08 mwester, indeed, my first read of your page was a bit disapointing :) Oct 17 19:20:10 :p Oct 17 19:20:11 me not Oct 17 19:20:12 :D Oct 17 19:20:47 hmm Oct 17 19:21:04 is this a valid image? openmoko-fso-image-glibc-ipk--20080911-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2.summary from http://downloads.openmoko.org/framework/milestone3/ Oct 17 19:21:27 yes, but it's dated Oct 17 19:21:36 is there anyway to change the illume theme? Oct 17 19:21:49 yes Oct 17 19:21:56 is there a newer one? or can i update it once installed? Oct 17 19:21:58 you can decompress the edje Oct 17 19:22:01 and change it Oct 17 19:22:14 ehr Oct 17 19:22:19 yep its quite fun once you've understood the syntax ;) Oct 17 19:22:32 i dont remberer if the ms3 has feeds Oct 17 19:22:34 however Oct 17 19:23:40 nothing Oct 17 19:23:49 :( Oct 17 19:23:51 nice buildup :) Oct 17 19:24:11 yeah... "fun" ... ¬_¬ Oct 17 19:24:29 Mwester, I still need to build illume for the zire :[ Oct 17 19:24:30 argh - copying 40mb to microsd over wlan.. would've been faster to take out the microsd.. Oct 17 19:24:34 mwester: i switched to qtopia some time ago but i have the feeling that its getting worse:-) Oct 17 19:24:34 why? it's quite fun Oct 17 19:24:38 I hope to have it done by tomorrow morning. Oct 17 19:24:46 Dave: how many did you fry in the meantime? Oct 17 19:25:03 Hey, shut up! That's not the point! :P Oct 17 19:25:11 mm, the problems I seemed to have with kernel for fso testing seem to have been fixed? I didn't even ask about them yet :) Oct 17 19:25:17 Dave: well we all know you have backup so no issue there :) Oct 17 19:25:25 mwester: did you make any tests with fso stuff? Oct 17 19:25:26 Dave: oh btw, you could send me one. Oct 17 19:25:27 haha, good point ;D Oct 17 19:25:31 uh huh :P Oct 17 19:25:39 I'll set you up the bomb, too :P Oct 17 19:25:46 malik1972: The source is downloadable -- and Trolltech/Nokia will happily take patches. Oct 17 19:25:58 Dave: that's why I would have given you my neighbours address. Oct 17 19:25:59 TROLLS Oct 17 19:26:06 Kensan, everybody wins!! Oct 17 19:26:07 :D Oct 17 19:26:15 mwester: you will feed them right?;-) Oct 17 19:26:19 fun.. hm just because figuring out how to change the wallpaper of 2008.8 took my some hours cause i never played around with e, so I had to find out how to work with its theme-files, where to find them etc ;) Oct 17 19:26:20 get it sent to your relatives Oct 17 19:26:21 :p Oct 17 19:26:22 Dave: depends. Oct 17 19:26:25 :P Oct 17 19:26:53 henkie_ http://downloads.freesmartphone.org/ Oct 17 19:27:22 ah, tnx Hire Oct 17 19:28:21 is it wise to abort a dfu-util in progress? Oct 17 19:28:51 mwester, apologies, I was not complaining :) I was just wondering if there were images anywhere :) Oct 17 19:38:26 Hah, sure you were Tig... sure you were :P Oct 17 19:42:19 Is there any updated version of that awesome accelerometer snake game? :P Oct 17 19:46:29 hi, anyone french around? Oct 17 19:50:34 edistar: half french Oct 17 19:52:08 FilipLinux4BE: can you tell me what 'moriginez' means? it seems to be medieval french Oct 17 19:53:27 no, I just have an older kernel than intended. hm. will try to use kernel + image anyway. Oct 17 19:56:37 hmm, could it be morigéner ? Oct 17 19:57:26 (latin médiéval morigenatus, du latin classique morigeratus, docile) Réprimander quelqu'un en lui faisant une leçon de morale ; sermonner. Oct 17 19:59:51 FilipLinux4BE: thanks.. it says moriginez, but it's old so one never knows ;) Oct 17 20:20:06 For example compiling natively is a snap w/ debian, just apt-get gcc&libc-dev (on gentoo too) and not so easy w/ om images :) (borked compiler, borked headers). Oct 17 20:20:15 why is that? Oct 17 20:25:30 because none of the developers build on the device,perhaps Oct 17 20:25:31 ? Oct 17 20:25:46 hi mwester && kids Oct 17 20:50:14 does the FSO have my gps device already set correct? Oct 17 20:50:44 2 or 3 or what Oct 17 20:51:19 milestone 1? Oct 17 20:51:36 using latest testing image Oct 17 20:51:56 but i cannot find the config Oct 17 20:52:44 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * r8910efcb0c91 10/ (10 files in 5 dirs): ousage: add error specs Oct 17 20:52:57 i do see a python process with the /dev/ttySAC1 device opened Oct 17 20:58:14 Tig|: there are GTA02 images there as well ... and have been for a while Oct 17 20:59:45 Tig|: the folder name might've confused ppl as both 01 and 02 images are in the neo1973 folder Oct 17 20:59:59 Tig|: http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-testing/images/neo1973/ Oct 17 21:04:06 argh - i tried to boot qtextended from sdcard but I geht "splash-write: applet not found" and the gui won't start up - any suggestions? Oct 17 21:26:07 I have to say, configuring the bootloader is really annoying when you make typos Oct 17 21:27:08 gurugentoo: use env-edit.pl Oct 17 21:28:17 o? Oct 17 21:28:19 hmm Oct 17 21:28:26 too late now Oct 17 21:40:16 gurugentoo: you can download the uboot-env to your workstation, edit it there and then upload it again. Oct 17 21:48:07 cu Oct 17 22:05:53 ahahahahaha Oct 17 22:05:58 Android has a kill switch Oct 17 22:06:45 It's called: A Hammer Oct 17 22:06:51 <[Rui]_> Google Android: become one, only humans need freedom Oct 17 22:07:34 Welcome to new earth aka: Google Oct 17 22:07:50 http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/64838.html Oct 17 22:08:05 "One realization getting ample attention is the existence of a so-called "kill switch" -- an option Google retains to remotely disable any Android application on a phone at its own discretion. " Oct 17 22:08:54 lol Rui Oct 17 22:08:56 that's about right Oct 17 22:49:46 is testing-om-gta02-20081017.rootfs unbootable? Oct 17 22:52:09 i've just updated from fso-testing feed and it's still bootable Oct 17 22:54:34 hm not on my fr Oct 17 22:54:56 freezes where the boots are first shown Oct 17 22:55:31 I also flashed testing-om-gta02-20081015.uImage.bin Oct 17 22:55:41 i have raster image + fso testing feed Oct 17 22:56:38 where to get raster? I was on http://downloads.openmoko.org/daily/ Oct 17 22:58:13 why screen protection do you guys have, if any? Oct 17 22:58:20 s/why/which/ Oct 17 22:58:21 KaZeR meant: which screen protection do you guys have, if any? Oct 17 22:58:31 http://download.enlightenment.org/misc/Illume/Freerunner/2008-10-12/ Oct 17 23:06:52 http://cgi.ebay.com/Vikuiti-ARMR200-Schutzfolie-Neo-FreeRunner_W0QQitemZ160286783832QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item160286783832&_trkparms=39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A1|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 Oct 17 23:07:12 phobie, you have this one? Oct 17 23:15:43 no I am also searching Oct 17 23:15:56 what kind of immage is this?: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/19d383b00d6d590d1936d34d9abb128b.png Oct 17 23:16:28 om2008 Oct 17 23:17:39 since I have not seen it, that must be a different theme Oct 17 23:17:53 yes, the tango theme Oct 17 23:18:05 http://52grad.de/.stuff/freerunner/ Oct 17 23:23:54 ok phobie Oct 17 23:25:33 oh the illume image is much more responsive than the testing one. Oct 17 23:26:21 yeah raster did a great job Oct 17 23:32:32 openmoko: 03werner * r4721 10/developers/werner/bin/ (ccache-setup flashk): Oct 17 23:32:32 openmoko: - flashk: handy script to update the kernel on GTA02 over SSH Oct 17 23:32:32 openmoko: - ccache-setup: set up ccache for local and cross builds Oct 17 23:34:21 openmoko: 03werner * r4722 10/developers/werner/neocon/ (README neocon.c): (log message trimmed) Oct 17 23:34:21 openmoko: Add manual switch to next device with ~n to solve problem of dead or useless Oct 17 23:34:21 openmoko: devices on which we get stuck because they don't generate an error. Oct 17 23:34:21 openmoko: - neocon.c (scan): use pointer instead of index (beautification) Oct 17 23:34:23 openmoko: - neocon.c (scan, copy), README: let user manually switch to next line with ~n Oct 17 23:34:25 openmoko: - neocon.c (open_first_tty, main): select next tty instead of first, rename Oct 17 23:34:27 openmoko: open_first_tty accordingly Oct 17 23:41:27 ls Oct 17 23:41:41 * Kensan changes to other window Oct 17 23:41:43 *sigh* Oct 17 23:42:48 henkie_, getting late :) Oct 17 23:45:59 i thought there would be a little news before the day was over Oct 17 23:47:20 yay Oct 17 23:47:54 linuxxr: what kind of news? Oct 17 23:48:26 raster: Sent you another oneliner. fyi, some of the patches don't apply anymore. Oct 17 23:48:31 maybe 2008.10 Oct 17 23:49:08 linuxxr: is the release to be expected around this time? Oct 17 23:49:17 no Oct 17 23:50:31 maybe somebody should start a rumor? *evilgrin* Oct 17 23:51:58 well if there are no plans for a 2008.10 it would be nice if there were at least a statement Oct 17 23:52:28 .10 won't bring much more to the table than .9 will it? seeing as they've slowed down development and concentrating on 'basic' Oct 17 23:53:14 i guess since the word is " getting back to the basics" then there will only be a better 2008.09 Oct 17 23:53:22 only? Oct 17 23:53:39 stability is paramount, features can be implemented any time. Oct 17 23:53:41 imho Oct 17 23:54:08 it might not be shiny and flashy and all but it might actually work and in my books that's *a lot* better than before :) Oct 17 23:54:53 linuxxr: and of course there are plans for 2008.10. The release will come. But what benefit does one get if the "not-release" is announced? Oct 17 23:56:01 that would be the news im speaking of Oct 17 23:57:19 Kensan: don't forget eye candy! paramount! :) Oct 17 23:57:36 raster: well yes, but that's not OMs job it's yours! Oct 17 23:57:48 raster: lazy and grumpy old man *haha* Oct 17 23:58:17 raster: how did the conf call go? I hope you had enough coffee ;) Oct 17 23:59:34 ugh Oct 17 23:59:38 i hate missing sleep Oct 17 23:59:51 i need my 8hrs per night Oct 18 00:01:22 raster: well it's weekend which means 2 workdays ahead for you ;) Oct 18 00:02:35 i'm at my desk Oct 18 00:02:38 plodding away Oct 18 00:03:48 raster: good, I guess I can go to bed then *heh* Oct 18 00:04:24 raster: did you get the mail? I am just doing another illume-image build. Oct 18 00:04:30 yes Oct 18 00:04:31 committed Oct 18 00:04:32 :) Oct 18 00:04:39 uh ok Oct 18 00:04:47 patches that don't apply will be solved when i next rebase Oct 18 00:05:14 when i do that i'll add in frameworkd etc. again Oct 18 00:05:16 raster: yeah thought so. just wanted to give you a "status update" while I was at it. Oct 18 00:05:28 hello. does anyone here use FDOM with GPRS? Oct 18 00:05:32 raster: oh, want a larger testuser base eh? ;) Oct 18 00:05:38 no Oct 18 00:05:48 just that it stopped being a bad behaver :) Oct 18 00:06:05 i am busy doing an entry widget for elementary Oct 18 00:06:08 man thats a lot of work Oct 18 00:06:12 raster: laforges input filter? Oct 18 00:06:27 but... it's enough now Oct 18 00:06:27 raster: entry? text-input? Oct 18 00:06:36 Kensan: yeah. mickey says it's all upstream now Oct 18 00:06:39 yes Oct 18 00:06:48 efl has been pretty weak there Oct 18 00:06:52 but it's got the whole hog now Oct 18 00:06:57 with markup and formatitng Oct 18 00:06:59 "rtf" like Oct 18 00:07:02 raster: ah right. Yeah I think with that usage dropped down to 2% Oct 18 00:07:02 anchors and links Oct 18 00:07:05 etc. Oct 18 00:07:16 and it looks pretty Oct 18 00:07:18 raster: ah yeah you were telling about it. Oct 18 00:07:22 as all the selection are edje Oct 18 00:07:24 the cursor is edje Oct 18 00:07:27 raster: nice. Oct 18 00:07:33 link styling is in edje Oct 18 00:07:42 so your links can glow and pulsate Oct 18 00:08:00 in fact the default cursor has a subtle floodlight facing up that pulsates slowly Oct 18 00:08:08 can't see it on the pure white bg Oct 18 00:08:09 paulproteus: what are you using on your phone? Oct 18 00:08:15 but over a selection it's noticable Oct 18 00:08:16 raster: heh, see eye-candy is your department not OMs ;) Oct 18 00:08:27 mattl I tried but noone can hear me Oct 18 00:08:32 and if the text is "dark" (like m as it has lots of down strokes) Oct 18 00:08:49 Kensan: nah. the problem is - eye candy was done long ago Oct 18 00:08:53 phobie: when the GPRS is turned on? Oct 18 00:08:54 well the mechanisms to do it Oct 18 00:09:04 everyone thinks time is wated on it Oct 18 00:09:05 its not Oct 18 00:09:13 forget it Oct 18 00:09:13 raster: eye-candy for the whole gang. that's what I am talking about! Oct 18 00:09:16 it's just using something that brings in candy for free Oct 18 00:09:18 mattbnz, Hey. Oct 18 00:09:22 mattl, rather Oct 18 00:09:28 and enouhg professional self-respect not to produce somethng butt-ugly Oct 18 00:09:46 raster: hehe butt-ugly seems to work for way too mayn people... Oct 18 00:09:50 mattl, An old Qtopia Snapshto. Oct 18 00:09:54 ah Oct 18 00:10:04 ie when you think it's done (don't need candy" if it has a black box and white text with a green blopb for a cursor - thats ennough Oct 18 00:10:05 Raster! Oct 18 00:10:09 i prefer to see it the apple way Oct 18 00:10:11 I see you there! Oct 18 00:10:13 its done when its shiny :) Oct 18 00:10:15 I'm up for whatever works and preferably enables more interesting apps, but lately I've been super swamped, not able to try stuff. Oct 18 00:10:16 hah Oct 18 00:10:30 raster: and wrapped in DRM ;) Oct 18 00:10:35 ok Oct 18 00:10:37 no drm Oct 18 00:10:42 now that is not part of being "done" Oct 18 00:10:58 that's part of "fuck the users" Oct 18 00:10:58 raster, He's making fun of your reference to Apple earlier. (-: Oct 18 00:11:02 :) Oct 18 00:11:05 Heh! Oct 18 00:11:11 Damn raster Oct 18 00:11:13 mattl: you buy openmoko phones not rent them from OM ;) Oct 18 00:11:21 but iot isnt a lot more effort to make it polished and shiny Oct 18 00:11:22 really Oct 18 00:11:35 *IF* the tools you use drag that in for you doing most work for you Oct 18 00:11:52 mattl I just ment that I could not make calls, just played the games and then isntalled the next image (no gprs) Oct 18 00:12:40 raster: btw I gave mdev a shot just a couple hours ago. Won't boot anymore *haha* Now I am not so sure it's good to not be sick anymore Oct 18 00:13:12 aaah Oct 18 00:13:16 u'll have to ask xora Oct 18 00:14:03 phobie: ah. i can make lots of calls and do maps. i just want GPRS and then i'll be happy. Oct 18 00:14:54 mattl since the currently installed illume is so much more responsive, I try to manage it with that image. Oct 18 00:15:07 what's illume? Oct 18 00:15:27 listen to raster and Kensan Oct 18 00:15:54 http://download.enlightenment.org/misc/Illume/Freerunner/2008-10-12/ Oct 18 00:16:29 mattl: gromez just told me to give that image a try several hours ago Oct 18 00:16:58 raster: I'll figure it out I guess. I won't be going anywhere this weekend. Still a bit weak. Oct 18 00:17:01 damn flue Oct 18 00:17:04 flu Oct 18 00:17:07 whatever Oct 18 00:17:13 * Kensan arghs Oct 18 00:17:30 ugh Oct 18 00:17:32 yeah Oct 18 00:17:34 git moved again Oct 18 00:17:44 raster: huh? Oct 18 00:17:45 Kensan: winter coming eh? Oct 18 00:17:50 Kensan: oe git Oct 18 00:17:58 i have to fresly check out my git tree Oct 18 00:18:00 raster: no it's actually pretty warm here. Oct 18 00:18:02 and now reapply all my patches Oct 18 00:18:16 raster: git-format-patch Oct 18 00:18:20 yeah Oct 18 00:18:23 i have my patches saved Oct 18 00:18:40 why are there no opkg-sources in the illume image? Oct 18 00:18:56 phobie: ? Oct 18 00:19:12 raster: why do you use svn for your things? feeling more comfortable with it? Oct 18 00:19:36 Kensan: unliek git - it doesnt fuck me over Oct 18 00:19:41 i like it Oct 18 00:19:43 it works Oct 18 00:19:50 raster: I was in germany last weekend and the damn hotel room was too cold :( Oct 18 00:20:05 raster: just http://my-distribution.example/ Oct 18 00:20:14 hey raster... have you tried qi instead of uboot yet? Oct 18 00:20:14 raster: well use what works best for you Oct 18 00:20:15 Kensan: aaah blame the germans! Oct 18 00:20:18 Kensan, my build has just finished :) Oct 18 00:20:24 knocked 20s off the boot time of your image Oct 18 00:20:26 ieatlint: no. Oct 18 00:20:34 raster: haha zee schermans Oct 18 00:20:38 i consider uboot "out of scole" Oct 18 00:20:39 :) Oct 18 00:20:52 phobie: umm.. i dont touch that Oct 18 00:20:59 i simple have the same stufffso does Oct 18 00:21:03 no feeds are set up Oct 18 00:21:07 as i dont provide a feed Oct 18 00:21:31 raster: maybe the bitbakery hides some ;) Oct 18 00:21:45 ieatlint: what does qi lose as opposed to uboot? Oct 18 00:21:52 ok, what does scole mean? hehe Oct 18 00:22:03 Kensan: i'll leave it up to the bakery :) Oct 18 00:22:07 raster: wouldn't it be good to include http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/unstable/ or something? Oct 18 00:22:09 it loses a boot menu Oct 18 00:22:10 ieatlint: oops. scope Oct 18 00:22:11 :) Oct 18 00:22:25 and it doesn't turn on the framebuffer for the boot process Oct 18 00:22:31 phobie: illume is rasters devel image. he leaves polishing etc up to others Oct 18 00:22:32 ieatlint: but it can do the rest? (splash, serial console, dfu etc.)? Oct 18 00:22:57 phobie: it wouldnt be because that wil conflict with the packages i build Oct 18 00:23:00 with versions etc. Oct 18 00:23:06 i dont TOUCH the opkg setup Oct 18 00:23:07 definitely not dfu... haven't tried serial console Oct 18 00:23:15 its directly as fso and oe have it set up by default Oct 18 00:23:25 ieatlint: aaah - that'd make reflahs a bit hard Oct 18 00:23:30 and no splash... it turns on the backlight, but doesn't touch the framebuffer Oct 18 00:23:37 NOR uboot is still there Oct 18 00:23:42 and perfectly fine for flashing Oct 18 00:23:53 i'll live Oct 18 00:24:02 i'll leave qi for "production fast boot" Oct 18 00:24:13 for me at least it's out of scope Oct 18 00:24:17 anyway, you don't see a scrolling kernel load Oct 18 00:24:26 and you don't see init Oct 18 00:24:26 but if i was doing a production device - i'd defintiely consider it Oct 18 00:24:33 goes straight to the gui loading Oct 18 00:24:41 yeah Oct 18 00:24:51 raster: does that mean, currently illume can not be used to place phonecalls or what has to be installed? Oct 18 00:24:52 (about 5 seconds from turning on to the gui load splash) Oct 18 00:24:55 as long as all it does it do minimal serial console for rescue Oct 18 00:24:56 ieatlint: have you tried it? Oct 18 00:25:05 and read/unzip zimage and jump into it Oct 18 00:25:06 thats good Oct 18 00:25:08 Kensan, yeah Oct 18 00:25:21 phobie: it has zero phone software on it Oct 18 00:25:25 its a very bare image Oct 18 00:25:30 ieatlint: do you have any pointers? I might give it a shot Oct 18 00:25:33 raster, yeah, as i said, it took 20 seconds off the boot time... that's impressive for just changing a bootloader and nothing else Oct 18 00:25:41 ieatlint: thats excellenmt Oct 18 00:25:49 seriously Oct 18 00:25:56 ieatlint: well uboot takes 7 seconds and the kernel itself takes another 14 Oct 18 00:26:00 Greetings friends. Oct 18 00:26:01 for a production "consumer" system i'd more than say "use it" Oct 18 00:26:04 then you start with init... Oct 18 00:26:10 Kensan, no real pointers... http://people.openmoko.org/andy/qi-andy_ab8665e9ac10a054.udfu is the bin (flash it to u-boot), http://git.openmoko.org/?p=qi.git;a=summary is the source Oct 18 00:26:16 which is whole other bag of candy Oct 18 00:26:25 candy? :D Oct 18 00:26:29 hey dave Oct 18 00:26:37 ieatlint: right Oct 18 00:26:39 *IF it had dfu and the ability to maybe "halt on serial console if u hold down power button while powering on" it'd be perfect for both camps i think Oct 18 00:26:55 oh, and it supports both sd and nand boots Oct 18 00:27:02 yeah Oct 18 00:27:08 ieatlint: but I would need serial console Oct 18 00:27:09 i just want dfu available with trivial ease Oct 18 00:27:15 does that mean I can install a phone application from a other repository or is it a unusable development image? Oct 18 00:27:17 i use it all the time for reflash Oct 18 00:27:23 phobie: yes Oct 18 00:27:28 it'll look at the first partition on the sd expecting ext2, and will load /boot/uImage.bin ... falling back to nand if it can't boot from sd Oct 18 00:27:33 phobie: yes. Oct 18 00:27:41 Kensan: "yes" to a "or"-question??? Oct 18 00:27:47 u'll just have to fix the feed config files to point ot a working repo Oct 18 00:28:09 well, for flashing, nor is easy enough.. but serial console is an issue Oct 18 00:28:10 ieatlint: as i said - it seems pretty awesome Oct 18 00:28:10 phobie: go with the first part of your question. Oct 18 00:28:17 Any No one lives forever fans here? Oct 18 00:28:19 ieatlint: just missing dfu Oct 18 00:28:25 (and serial co nsole unknown) Oct 18 00:28:31 "I mean jes to the first part an no to the second part" Oct 18 00:28:36 adding dfu shouldnt make it an slower Oct 18 00:28:39 just a bit bigger Oct 18 00:29:02 raster, but it would also require the ability to pause the bootloader Oct 18 00:29:02 Receiving objects: 11% (29296/248131), 6.19 MiB | 9 KiB/s Oct 18 00:29:03 s/jes/yes Oct 18 00:29:09 thats pretty rediculously slow Oct 18 00:29:25 ieatlint: yes. just need to check a gpio pin - power button Oct 18 00:29:35 i suppose indeed Oct 18 00:29:40 raster: from oe? Oct 18 00:29:45 and you wouldn't really need the screen turned on for it Oct 18 00:29:48 if its down pause boot - if it stays down for > 1 second permanently pause Oct 18 00:30:01 (ie its possible it'll be down ad user just turned on device but hasnt released it yet) Oct 18 00:30:13 ke yeah Oct 18 00:30:18 Kensan: yeah Oct 18 00:30:25 raster: I had ~ 650 kb Oct 18 00:30:37 raster: maybe they are messing around with it Oct 18 00:30:41 maybe Oct 18 00:30:46 but its not my internude Oct 18 00:30:52 raster: so the url I put in the patch is actually not working anymore? Oct 18 00:30:59 i normally can pull about 2mb/sec Oct 18 00:31:03 bytes - not bits) Oct 18 00:31:05 internude? Oct 18 00:31:10 oh Oct 18 00:31:13 thats from your patchg Oct 18 00:31:19 my old git tree doesnt work anymore Oct 18 00:31:21 are you trying to top my boobsplash?!? Oct 18 00:31:23 Kensan: internet Oct 18 00:31:26 internude Oct 18 00:31:27 *heh* Oct 18 00:31:28 nude Oct 18 00:31:30 classic Oct 18 00:31:33 i wonder how long before the switch to ubifs comes too... there's already a bin of 2.6.27 that will boot the phone, but without mtd support (must use sd) Oct 18 00:31:34 the net is all about porn Oct 18 00:31:34 instant classic Oct 18 00:31:39 so i call it the internude Oct 18 00:32:06 ieatlint: I guess somebody has to benchmark and post to the ml ;) Oct 18 00:32:09 ieatlint: i'd like to know what benefits ubifs bringsa Oct 18 00:32:18 got a rundown of ubif vs jffs2? Oct 18 00:32:22 better wearing from what i hear Oct 18 00:32:41 currently uninteresting there Oct 18 00:32:43 :) Oct 18 00:32:52 more thinkign features/performance Oct 18 00:32:52 eg Oct 18 00:33:03 raster: I believe mount time is drastically faster Oct 18 00:33:06 beign able to mark files, file types and file name glob masks to say "dont compress" Oct 18 00:33:07 etc. Oct 18 00:33:11 aaah mount time good Oct 18 00:34:16 http://osl.sed.hu/wiki/ubifs/index.php/IOzone Oct 18 00:34:18 apparently it's faster too Oct 18 00:34:31 raster: http://kerneltrap.org/mailarchive/linux-kernel/2008/3/27/1273514 Oct 18 00:35:49 hmmm Oct 18 00:36:16 mixed bag of results Oct 18 00:37:00 raster: yeah Oct 18 00:37:05 raster: especially read... Oct 18 00:37:56 reads also are one of the mostcommon thi9ngs Oct 18 00:38:05 ie huge performance bottleneck Oct 18 00:38:22 beats logfs Oct 18 00:38:23 reading is overrated Oct 18 00:38:31 but thats not being used Oct 18 00:38:35 this has been my position since school Oct 18 00:38:48 ieatlint: heh Oct 18 00:38:59 "close to be production ready" closer than om :) Oct 18 00:39:06 so use it Oct 18 00:39:20 well seems like somebody should benchmark the whole bag of flash fs Oct 18 00:39:24 it is production ready, that info is from like march Oct 18 00:39:35 it's in 2.6.27 Oct 18 00:39:37 well its in 2.6.27 so Oct 18 00:39:56 and its not marked as experimental right? Oct 18 00:40:07 uhm... let me check Oct 18 00:40:45 no just "new" Oct 18 00:40:46 hehe Oct 18 00:41:22 raster: dont update oe now Oct 18 00:41:31 raster: probably too late :( Oct 18 00:41:39 raster: oe is broken atm. Oct 18 00:41:44 hmm Oct 18 00:41:50 seems ubifs looks good overall Oct 18 00:41:58 but needs some extensions methinks Oct 18 00:42:05 Kensan: shit Oct 18 00:42:21 it should free up a bit of ram too Oct 18 00:42:29 which is always good Oct 18 00:42:56 sure Oct 18 00:43:01 i like the write-back Oct 18 00:43:06 thats a bad bit of jffs2 Oct 18 00:43:12 iv'e noticed it Oct 18 00:43:16 itsa nasty actually Oct 18 00:43:33 i even considered farming off config file writes in e17 to a forked slave proc Oct 18 00:43:40 ie on save fork() Oct 18 00:43:45 and the child does the write and quits Oct 18 00:43:57 parent queues any more writes until child exits Oct 18 00:44:03 raster: hal is broken for me Oct 18 00:44:09 as such on normal fss's Oct 18 00:44:12 like ext2/3 etc. Oct 18 00:44:19 mmm. i succeeded using bitbake, but it generated opk files. what is needed to get ipk files? (i followed this guide : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/BitBake) Oct 18 00:44:22 this si a no-braienr as the fs is write-back and does this for u Oct 18 00:44:38 KaZeR: opk is as good as ipk Oct 18 00:44:43 zash: same thing Oct 18 00:44:48 KaZeR: ipk == opk Oct 18 00:44:52 ok thanks Oct 18 00:45:01 i read a post from one guy claiming ubifs knocked 15s off the boot of his olpc vs jffs2 Oct 18 00:45:02 should it be renamed to conform some kind of norm? Oct 18 00:45:09 i didn't even know the olpc used mtd, hehe Oct 18 00:45:12 ieatlint: i'd believe it Oct 18 00:45:18 the fjss fs scan is nasty for mount time Oct 18 00:45:28 qi + ubifs shoudl nixe a lot of boot time Oct 18 00:45:30 nix Oct 18 00:45:48 raster: it seems that there's still some backslash from the git migration... Oct 18 00:46:00 indeed, if ubifs took 15s off the boot.. combined with qi, that'd be 35s... impressive Oct 18 00:46:26 ieatlint: mdev for udev and you get another 10 Oct 18 00:46:36 roughly Oct 18 00:46:52 wheee... Oct 18 00:46:54 ieatlint: yes Oct 18 00:47:02 .i still think it needs smarts Oct 18 00:47:06 maybe i should play with it one day Oct 18 00:47:19 how about parallel init scripts? Oct 18 00:47:24 ie patch it Oct 18 00:47:36 ieatlint: not that much to benefit I think. Oct 18 00:47:56 might help some, not a silver bullet Oct 18 00:48:03 ieatlint: laforge mentioned he had upstart running localy on his fso image Oct 18 00:48:25 ieatlint: mentioned he had a "slight" speedup but rather minor Oct 18 00:49:03 very likely Oct 18 00:49:10 the problem with boot is doign silly things Oct 18 00:49:12 in a silyl way Oct 18 00:49:21 jffs2 performance on mount is a problem Oct 18 00:49:23 uboot is Oct 18 00:49:30 well, unsurprising i suppose... but still.. we're talking about nearly half the boot time if we net 20s from qi, 15 from ubifs and 10 from mdev... 45s Oct 18 00:49:30 and runing ldconfig on boot is Oct 18 00:49:42 that's about half the boot time Oct 18 00:50:51 We need an adaptable userspace IMO --- we give the impression of long boot, and even worse long resume times, when we can fix a lot by just properly scheduling things so that the bits that the users want at the moment should be the things that start first. Oct 18 00:51:00 raster: I got another 20 off simply by removing unneded stuff Oct 18 00:51:12 bootmisc.sh Oct 18 00:51:17 it NEEDS to lose the ldconfig Oct 18 00:51:23 raster: yep, lots of stopid things in there Oct 18 00:51:30 yup Oct 18 00:51:31 raster: why is the config saved to / and not to /home/root/ ? Oct 18 00:51:34 As a specific example, if the phone resumes from GSM, all CPU and I/O priority should go to the processes directly dealing with setting up to allow the user to identify the incoming call and answer it. Oct 18 00:51:39 just remove the stupidity Oct 18 00:51:43 (rather than restoring GPS state) Oct 18 00:51:44 remove anything from scrityps that does find Oct 18 00:51:44 mwester: yeah, especially for all the hardware that can be loaded as-needed Oct 18 00:51:48 or ls Oct 18 00:51:53 or grep 0-r Oct 18 00:51:58 anythign that rummages through ltos of fs Oct 18 00:52:22 phobie: config ends up there because of OE bugs Oct 18 00:52:30 phobie: when Oe starts x HOME is / Oct 18 00:52:35 thats why Oct 18 00:52:48 urgh Oct 18 00:52:56 om fixed that ages ago Oct 18 00:53:02 but xora hasn' Oct 18 00:53:02 mwester: do you know how to fix the oe "conf/checksum.ini" build issues? Oct 18 00:53:10 but xora hasn't merrged ina lto fo oms' patches/fixes Oct 18 00:53:25 i can probably fix it... Oct 18 00:53:36 Kensan: I'm living in checksum hell right now. Oct 18 00:53:39 so it's just a communication problem? Oct 18 00:53:54 dunno Oct 18 00:54:00 i'd have to ask xora why he hasnt merged these Oct 18 00:54:03 is conflict Oct 18 00:54:05 Kensan: what's the missing url? Oct 18 00:54:07 or just doesnt know of them Oct 18 00:54:08 mwester: is there a howto or a few pointers how to resolve these? Oct 18 00:54:09 or lack fo time Oct 18 00:54:20 xora WORKS for om Oct 18 00:54:28 it is imporatant because you can not mount "something" to / Oct 18 00:54:31 mwester: http://hal.freedesktop.org/releases/hal-0.5.9.tar.gz Oct 18 00:54:34 so any comms problems are the usual intra-company ones Oct 18 00:54:34 :) Oct 18 00:54:47 mwester: tell me how to fix it :) Oct 18 00:55:24 raster: well graeme has done mdev but it's nowhere to be found... Oct 18 00:55:34 Kensan: :( Oct 18 00:55:47 Kensan: http://wiki.openembedded.net/index.php/Checksums Oct 18 00:55:59 Do you have OE commit access? Oct 18 00:56:03 #raster: I wrote a mail to devel about boot time: Oct 18 00:56:08 mwester: nope Oct 18 00:56:18 mwester: maybe I can relay patches via you? Oct 18 00:56:26 crap Oct 18 00:56:31 Ok. Then I'll add that one to my list of many to add to the checksums.ini file. Oct 18 00:56:34 and i dont have an oe tree as i nuked it to get a new one Oct 18 00:56:37 and its SLOOOOW Oct 18 00:56:50 Sure, send me what you encounter... Oct 18 00:57:14 mwester: ok cool. what's your addy? Oct 18 00:57:30 phobie: i'll patrch upo x init to set HOME right and put it in my 0patchset Oct 18 00:57:38 it's up to mickey/graeme etc. to pcik up the patches Oct 18 00:57:42 i have pointed them to them Oct 18 00:57:43 :) Oct 18 00:58:01 Kensan: mwester@dls.net Oct 18 00:58:04 i just have no commit access to oe's tree so i cant put any of this in for you Oct 18 00:58:10 thats why i maintain my own in e's svn Oct 18 00:58:19 raster: fine! Oct 18 00:58:25 raster: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2008-October/002596.html Oct 18 00:58:33 mwester: thanks I will see what I can do Oct 18 00:58:43 Kensan: i saw that one :) Oct 18 00:58:57 Kensan: btw can u list all the things u have done? Oct 18 00:59:02 i can do them ones my oe tree is back Oct 18 00:59:06 and make proper patches of them? Oct 18 00:59:07 :p Oct 18 01:00:02 phobie: the HOME=/ has disturbed me before. i noticed it @ om already and thats why its fixed there Oct 18 01:00:07 but OE has yet to follow suit Oct 18 01:00:09 i'll do it Oct 18 01:00:18 just once my tree is back Oct 18 01:02:22 raster: well not much actually Oct 18 01:02:36 1 ldconfig nix Oct 18 01:02:38 i know thats slow Oct 18 01:02:40 what else? Oct 18 01:02:51 (removed what for example)? Oct 18 01:02:57 raster: let me see Oct 18 01:03:41 Kensan: i'll write them down Oct 18 01:03:43 implement Oct 18 01:03:46 and build Oct 18 01:03:49 and have full patches Oct 18 01:03:53 thats can go into oe Oct 18 01:04:14 raster: I am looking for my notes Oct 18 01:04:45 raster: I will see, that oe builds illume cleanly. Oct 18 01:04:59 to anyone using navit (or wanting to test it) i've build an updated package (1255 is really old) : http://www.kazer.org/navit/FreeRunner/ Oct 18 01:05:08 raster: since I am building right now and the checksum buildfailures that come up I will send patch to mwester Oct 18 01:05:19 maps can be fetched directly from http://maps.navit-project.org/download/ and need no processing Oct 18 01:05:29 feedback in #navit please, thanks :) Oct 18 01:05:43 Kensan, huge thanks for your help. it works :) Oct 18 01:07:32 raster: disabled portmap Oct 18 01:07:50 Kensan: portmap Oct 18 01:07:51 aaah Oct 18 01:07:56 oh thats used for nfs stuff Oct 18 01:07:57 yes Oct 18 01:08:04 i remember theer being some nfs setup Oct 18 01:08:06 we dont NEED that Oct 18 01:08:10 optional extra for hyper-nerds Oct 18 01:08:14 raster: yes but its not active by default Oct 18 01:08:26 "its" need not be Oct 18 01:08:34 its it is Oct 18 01:08:37 argh Oct 18 01:09:06 * Kensan calls his english teacher to apologize Oct 18 01:10:11 raster: funny, managed to fix it elsewhere but not on your image :) Oct 18 01:10:40 KaZeR: cool, glad I could help :) Oct 18 01:11:12 phobie: fix what? Oct 18 01:11:19 raster: ldconfig as already mentioned Oct 18 01:11:45 raster: avahi - don't think it's used currently Oct 18 01:11:46 Kensan: yeah. noted that Oct 18 01:11:56 ooh spiffy - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812339170 Oct 18 01:12:02 avahi and hal -- overkill for what we need. Oct 18 01:12:37 mwester: the problem is hal is kind of necessary for things like connman Oct 18 01:12:41 or network manger Oct 18 01:12:52 Hello. Oct 18 01:12:55 raster: what I was about to do: udevsynthesize/udev -> mdev or unzip /dev-tarball on boot Oct 18 01:12:56 for removable sotrage handling in the case of external flash drives (Thumbdrives) Oct 18 01:12:58 When was the first OpenMoko phone released? Oct 18 01:13:00 :) Need to do a 'tinyhal" Oct 18 01:13:02 raster: that HOME=/ issue we talked about. Oct 18 01:13:04 and in the fuiture if u have externally accessible sd slots Oct 18 01:13:14 as really anything doign that stuff goes thru hal these days Oct 18 01:13:26 phobie: its not fixed in upsteram oe Oct 18 01:13:34 or wasnt the last git-fetch/rebase i did Oct 18 01:13:42 and hasnt been for a LONG time Oct 18 01:14:04 Actually, the hal stuff isn't so bad if it can be deferred int eh startup, along with all the multi-media stuff and the SD card, etc... Oct 18 01:14:05 ok it was fixed "somewhere" TM Oct 18 01:14:42 missing this like: Oct 18 01:14:43 line: Oct 18 01:14:46 ./xserver-nodm-init/xserver-nodm: [ -z $LOGNAME ] && export LOGNAME=root && export HOME=/home/root Oct 18 01:14:58 grep -r home/root . Oct 18 01:14:58 ./xserver-kdrive-common/Xinit:export HOME=/home/root Oct 18 01:15:03 (in OE) Oct 18 01:15:03 Tetracomm: you have to look at the mailinglists if none here knows... Oct 18 01:15:08 but in Om's tree: Oct 18 01:15:14 grep -r home/root . Oct 18 01:15:14 ./xserver-kdrive-common/Xinit:export HOME=/home/root Oct 18 01:15:14 ./xserver-nodm-init/xserver-nodm: [ -z $LOGNAME ] && export LOGNAME=root && export HOME=/home/root Oct 18 01:15:15 :( Oct 18 01:15:26 i know where it was fixed in om Oct 18 01:15:31 and why :) Oct 18 01:15:43 Tetracomm: released as in "anybody" could buy it? Oct 18 01:15:43 But it's a secret? Oct 18 01:15:50 mwester: yeah. hald can be deferred until after ui is up Oct 18 01:15:52 mwester: i agree Oct 18 01:15:54 Tetracomm: that would be last june or so Oct 18 01:16:04 Ok. Oct 18 01:16:05 the ui SHOULD be smart enough to wait for hal to come up anyway Oct 18 01:16:10 if it isnt already up Oct 18 01:16:14 Yep. Oct 18 01:16:14 Tetracomm: maybe you find something in the wiki Oct 18 01:16:16 eithe rkeep olling for it every few seconds Oct 18 01:16:27 or listen for dbus events for new service owners Oct 18 01:16:30 Tetracomm: it was GTA01Bv4 Oct 18 01:16:34 Jul 9 2007: OpenMoko goes live, is that it? Oct 18 01:16:53 mwester: do you need a signed-off patch or does a simple git-diff patch do? Oct 18 01:17:28 Tetracomm: I am not sure. Try the announce ml I am sure there was an announcement mail from sean ;) Oct 18 01:17:30 What do they mean by that? "OpenMoko goes Live Oct 18 01:17:36 Ok. Oct 18 01:17:37 Kensan: simple patch is ideal, I'll be globbing them up into a set of rolled-up commits anyway (else I'll be commiting the same file every few minutes here!) Oct 18 01:18:09 Tetracomm: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-July/000017.html Oct 18 01:18:12 Tetracomm: there you go Oct 18 01:18:38 Thank you. Oct 18 01:18:40 Kensan: ooh another thing that can be improved Oct 18 01:18:50 rename init scritps to initscript.sh Oct 18 01:18:56 rc will source them instead of execcing hem Oct 18 01:19:32 raster: I did remove some shell stuff Oct 18 01:20:12 I didn't actually keep track because I was just toying around at the time. I wanted to take a closer look this week but alas I got the flue :( Oct 18 01:20:57 damn flu Oct 18 01:21:05 blame zee grmans jaaa! Oct 18 01:21:12 raster: haha Oct 18 01:21:23 mwester: first one sent your way ;) Oct 18 01:21:37 raster: got me pretty good this time :( Oct 18 01:21:51 techiem2-r: cool, but would've been ideal if it could at least provide 1000mA, not limited to 150-500mA :/ Oct 18 01:21:54 raster: well I'll have some time over the weekend. Oct 18 01:22:17 yeah...there are some car only ones that do 1A Oct 18 01:22:37 * mwester has a belkin one that claims to do an amp Oct 18 01:22:59 Kensan: i'll nuke some of these anyway Oct 18 01:23:02 as they are silly Oct 18 01:23:04 like ldconfig Oct 18 01:23:06 * mwester wonders if it has a resister to identify it, and if so, what value? Oct 18 01:23:09 thats a bit meaty lump of boot there Oct 18 01:23:30 mwester: where'd you get it? Oct 18 01:24:02 raster: I guess networking can be postponed after all else is up Oct 18 01:24:21 and does it do wall and car? Oct 18 01:24:22 hehe Oct 18 01:24:23 i have a mini usb one that does 2A Oct 18 01:24:31 I didn't -- one of my kids came home with it from some school trip; they killed their ipod batteries and picked it up somewhere on the journey. Oct 18 01:24:39 mine only does car though :/ Oct 18 01:25:28 and wouldn't 2A harm the FR? Oct 18 01:25:29 hehe Oct 18 01:25:45 or does the FR limit it's own draw? Oct 18 01:25:50 FR is very careful. Oct 18 01:25:55 too careful, IMO ;) Oct 18 01:26:02 lol Oct 18 01:26:18 it will starve itself to death on a USB charger. Oct 18 01:26:27 Kensan: that could be Oct 18 01:26:34 ah yes, that default to 100mA Oct 18 01:26:35 lol Oct 18 01:26:38 though for us - and debuggign the earlier net is up, the better Oct 18 01:27:19 raster: yes, I was thinking about the "later" steps :) Oct 18 01:28:54 raster: same goes for console/kernel boot messages. Oct 18 01:29:19 mwester: you're sure the FR wouldn't draw too much with 2A available to it ? Oct 18 01:29:43 havn't actually tried mine yet Oct 18 01:30:11 Kensan: those are less likely to be needed imho Oct 18 01:30:13 :) Oct 18 01:30:34 sicu: Yep, positive -- it'll max out at 1A Oct 18 01:30:52 The website should have a features page for each phone. Oct 18 01:30:53 raster: the motto is: if you want the kernel boot message you should know how to get them via console ;) Oct 18 01:31:54 * mwester blindfolds Kensan, hands him a wrench, and tells him to go find out what's wrong with his automobile. Oct 18 01:32:07 raster: bluetooth could be postponed too Oct 18 01:32:11 hehe Oct 18 01:32:21 bt - definitely Oct 18 01:32:35 might agree on usbnet/net actually Oct 18 01:32:44 * Kensan runs after mwester with the wrench and trips over his FR Oct 18 01:32:45 * mwester agrees about bt on startup, but not on resume. Oct 18 01:33:05 so movr xserver-nodm Oct 18 01:33:16 down to S50 Oct 18 01:33:22 hm Oct 18 01:33:24 maybe S40 Oct 18 01:33:28 Oh - you guys are doing startup only? Oct 18 01:33:29 cool. Oct 18 01:33:45 dropbear can move off to S60 Oct 18 01:33:52 as thats useless until usbgadget and network is up Oct 18 01:34:15 eyeah Oct 18 01:34:16 just boot Oct 18 01:34:20 :) Oct 18 01:34:57 mwester: thx, good to know. found a good writeup about it: http://quickstart.openmoko.org/#chargerdetection =] Oct 18 01:36:09 raster: bootmisc.sh : Update motd Oct 18 01:36:41 raster: can be removed Oct 18 01:37:10 yeah Oct 18 01:37:12 motd - useless Oct 18 01:37:27 echo "System bootup in progress - please wait" > /etc/nologin Oct 18 01:37:30 thast should go too Oct 18 01:37:42 no messing with the console forcibly Oct 18 01:37:49 I think that is VERY VERY important, ok? Oct 18 01:37:52 that screws ant bootsplash trying to be slick Oct 18 01:38:00 To put a features list on the openmoko website. Oct 18 01:38:03 Please... Oct 18 01:38:12 I didn't see anything when I went there. Oct 18 01:38:15 its not needed Oct 18 01:38:23 raster: the if in "alignment" can be simplified Oct 18 01:38:28 oh wait Oct 18 01:38:33 talking about boot? Oct 18 01:38:35 ot website? Oct 18 01:38:47 Website. Oct 18 01:38:49 Kensan: yeah a bit ugly Oct 18 01:38:53 te aah' Oct 18 01:38:58 never mind then Oct 18 01:39:50 raster: well my shell-foo is not all that good but I think banner can also be simplified Oct 18 01:40:30 actually motd isnt used Oct 18 01:40:33 its "no" in config Oct 18 01:40:43 raster: sysfs is doing a grep on /proc/filesystems Oct 18 01:40:48 oh wait Oct 18 01:40:48 raster: ah k Oct 18 01:40:49 never mind Oct 18 01:40:52 log is reverse Oct 18 01:40:56 it is used Oct 18 01:40:59 yes Oct 18 01:41:04 uname and sed running is silly Oct 18 01:41:46 should remove the banner Oct 18 01:41:50 consoel shoudl be empty Oct 18 01:41:57 blank - no banners, text etc. Oct 18 01:42:04 if i want stuff in console Oct 18 01:42:15 i'll set console in the uboot kernel b oot params Oct 18 01:42:22 so it runs the nromal console there Oct 18 01:42:32 raster: ramdisk is also grepping Oct 18 01:42:52 * mwester waits for them to get to volatiles... Oct 18 01:43:03 mwester: feel free to chip in :) Oct 18 01:43:52 :) Oct 18 01:44:24 "too many cooks" Oct 18 01:44:43 I'll stick to the SD card stuff Oct 18 01:44:45 for the moment Oct 18 01:44:47 hmm Oct 18 01:45:12 mwester: I didn't take you for the quiet type ;) Oct 18 01:45:41 mwester: just making notes Oct 18 01:45:46 No, but once in a while it's fun to sit at the table and watch the cooks furiously create something :) Oct 18 01:45:51 waiting for git to finsih cloning Oct 18 01:46:22 mwester: hehe I am not furious, actually I am pretty sleepy Oct 18 01:46:46 package 3350 something Oct 18 01:46:58 I knew 4 cores are not enough *sigh* Oct 18 01:47:41 raster: dropbear can be pushed back also. Goes along with networking ;) Oct 18 01:47:56 Kensan: yes Oct 18 01:48:40 * mwester wants support for an env var (set by init via boot command line) to pull network and dropbear startup early in boot process... Oct 18 01:50:32 mwester: yeah, never forget the god mode ;) Oct 18 01:50:35 mwester: u can just rename the SXXX scripts Oct 18 01:50:41 the env var will be "idkfa" Oct 18 01:50:42 to re-order them for tyourself for hacking Oct 18 01:50:50 note Oct 18 01:50:59 focusing on how to make boto fast for a target "prodyct" Oct 18 01:51:10 ie get ui up as fast as possible for users as thats what the ultimate aim is Oct 18 01:51:21 raster: you've got mail ;) Oct 18 01:51:46 aaah Oct 18 01:51:47 :) Oct 18 01:51:54 package 3800 Oct 18 01:52:09 But Mr. raster! The whole point is so that one can get into the system to FIX it if something in the boot process causes it to hang or crash! So renaming the S files is not a good solution... Oct 18 01:52:40 Tetracomm: what do you mean by feature list ? Oct 18 01:53:02 mwester: ooh u want to export the env var from uboot? Oct 18 01:53:06 mwester: well we could do a shell script that you can pass as init which only brings up networking and ssh Oct 18 01:53:07 As long as you can reboot with a key held down and drop out of fastboot mode... Oct 18 01:53:55 That reminds me of a demo I attended back when I worked for Sun Microsystems -- mainframe IT guy watching the demo, the workstation panicked and crashed, the guy doing the demo watched the panic on the screen, then turned to the IT guy and said "I bet you've never had your mainframe reboot this fast before." .... nice try, but no cigar! Oct 18 01:54:43 sicu: A list of the phone's features. Oct 18 01:54:50 raster: any tokens on the command line not claimed by the kernel are passed through as env vars to init. Oct 18 01:55:22 mwester: i know :) thats why i was checking that was ytour intent Oct 18 01:55:30 So if you add "bootmode=phone" to the kernel boot line, that will be found in the envronment for the boot scripts to use. Oct 18 01:55:34 ie set boot command to "SAFEBOOT=yes Oct 18 01:55:37 or something Oct 18 01:55:41 (maybe something shorter Oct 18 01:55:47 like HACKER=yes Oct 18 01:55:50 :) Oct 18 01:56:23 Yep. If we have some of the scripts check, the user can set a preferred boot profile, and speed, or reorder, things to their needs. But that's a future thing, I expect. Oct 18 01:56:51 yeah Oct 18 01:56:54 makes sense Oct 18 01:56:56 i agree Oct 18 01:57:05 so u basically have a resume mode for userspace/boot Oct 18 01:57:08 i woudl do this Oct 18 01:57:14 RESCUE=yes Oct 18 01:57:17 on cmd-line Oct 18 01:57:31 if RESCUE is set to yes in init.d/rc Oct 18 01:57:36 then run a special fallback boot Oct 18 01:57:43 that only brings up usb gagdte Oct 18 01:57:47 networkign ande dropbear Oct 18 01:57:49 thats it Oct 18 01:57:50 nothing else Oct 18 01:57:51 uboot can set kernel environs? Oct 18 01:57:53 or Oct 18 01:57:58 it just runs these first Oct 18 01:58:02 then continues with boot Oct 18 01:58:23 net and dropbear in a teeny initroot or something is handy Oct 18 01:58:35 yeah Oct 18 01:58:35 SpeedEvil: that is another matter entirely Oct 18 01:58:36 Used that before. Oct 18 01:58:41 a whoel sepearte initrd for that Oct 18 01:58:47 ah Oct 18 01:58:48 there are levels of safety Oct 18 01:58:51 how many do u really want? Oct 18 01:58:51 yeah Oct 18 01:58:55 844. Oct 18 01:58:55 sure Oct 18 01:58:59 initrd would do it too Oct 18 01:58:59 Or maybe 843. Oct 18 01:59:05 but really we need to be sane Oct 18 01:59:09 yeah. Oct 18 01:59:09 i think mwester is right Oct 18 01:59:29 a way to say "oh fuck my boot is fucked and usbnet doenst come up.. i'ms screwed without a debug board" Oct 18 01:59:35 raster: usb-net dropbear first and then carry on, that sounds good Oct 18 01:59:37 As long as it's got a 'safe' mode of some supid form. Oct 18 01:59:38 and fix it Oct 18 01:59:49 of course that'd be for advanced users Oct 18 01:59:58 who are fuckign with their boots Oct 18 01:59:59 raster: maybe. Oct 18 02:00:01 with a "press CTRL-C to abort" Oct 18 02:00:05 *muahaha* Oct 18 02:00:07 scnr Oct 18 02:00:09 average users will never use it Oct 18 02:00:15 Tetracomm: the wiki can be a bit messy, but mostly everything is buried in there somewhere Oct 18 02:00:15 as they will have no idea how to get a serial console Oct 18 02:00:18 Tetracomm: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison Oct 18 02:00:19 and be scared of typing in stuff Oct 18 02:00:21 raster: 'when you get your freerunner, run this program to make a rescue microsd'. Oct 18 02:00:31 so for them- just use the 'gui reflash util" Oct 18 02:00:41 (whihc doesnt exist, but should) Oct 18 02:00:53 * techiem2-r emails ezgear to ask for specs on their 2 port car/wall charger Oct 18 02:00:56 SpeedEvil: no need Oct 18 02:01:09 just download a "sane known released flash image"" Oct 18 02:01:13 and reflahs from desktop Oct 18 02:01:25 reflash Oct 18 02:01:25 desktop can be far away. Oct 18 02:01:29 coudl be Oct 18 02:01:43 SpeedEvil: hm but how are you accessing the phone then? Oct 18 02:01:43 but u shouldnt be messing with shit at that level if u are far away Oct 18 02:01:50 seriously Oct 18 02:02:01 you are doing this because you want to ssh in... Oct 18 02:02:03 if u are far away - dont mess with stuff that will/could make your device not boot Oct 18 02:02:08 I was assuming a 'OMG, my phone ate itself' problem. Oct 18 02:02:34 SpeedEvil: i think the reflahs-from-desktop is an adequate solution for the "my phone ate itself" Oct 18 02:02:35 So a thing on SD which grabs a image of the flash, and rewrites it with a good image, ... Oct 18 02:02:40 true. Oct 18 02:02:46 It's pretty irreleveant. Oct 18 02:02:55 we are solving the "now it doesnt boot and i would need to buy a dbeug board to get a serial console to figure ths out.. or reflash": Oct 18 02:02:57 There are vastly more important stuff to wotrk on. Oct 18 02:03:00 and just bring up usbnet earlier Oct 18 02:03:00 SpeedEvil: that problem should not be solved at this level. Oct 18 02:03:15 imho Oct 18 02:03:17 thats simple enough to do Oct 18 02:03:26 raster: doesn't dfu-util read flash images too? Oct 18 02:03:32 and more common that the "it ate itself and i have no mechanism to reflahs from a dekstop/laptop" Oct 18 02:03:35 raster: just pull it off and mount it Oct 18 02:03:37 SpeedEvil: yes Oct 18 02:03:46 SpeedEvil: you can download all the partitions from the phone afaik Oct 18 02:03:51 * mwester agrees with SpeedEvil's thinking on the topic -- a rescue mode using nothing but an SD card reader/writer should be available for when all else fails. Oct 18 02:03:52 SpeedEvil: but u cant run thigns to see what they are doing Oct 18 02:03:53 :) Oct 18 02:03:55 Though admittedly, ARM binary screws that. Oct 18 02:03:56 well u can.. qemu Oct 18 02:03:59 which isnt a gta02 anyway Oct 18 02:04:01 so u miss hardware Oct 18 02:04:39 i'm just worried about speeding up boot Oct 18 02:04:57 Fix suspend/resume, then we only need to do it once! Oct 18 02:04:58 and a "save flash and have it resored auto by uboot" is an entirely separate topic Oct 18 02:04:58 :) Oct 18 02:05:02 mwester: maybe a "backup kernel+initrd" for rescue tasks? Oct 18 02:05:11 while making boto fast - if that makes usbnet take longer or less likely to be reliable Oct 18 02:05:15 ah. Oct 18 02:05:23 mwester: is right in wanting a mode to make it more reliable again Oct 18 02:05:28 Sorry, I came in in teh middle, and should have backscrolled, sorry. Oct 18 02:05:37 as we make usbnet come up much later in favor oof a faster boot to gui Oct 18 02:06:00 * SpeedEvil commits sudoko. Oct 18 02:06:15 if usbnet doesnt come up then Oct 18 02:06:16 * Kensan hands SpeedEvil some digits Oct 18 02:06:31 (u still need a desktop and usb link to get to uboot to set that env.. or a uboot menu pre-configured) Oct 18 02:06:40 then u are in the "oh shit my image is fucked" land Oct 18 02:06:44 uboot menu item works well. Oct 18 02:06:53 but that could happen right now - so no different to our current situation Oct 18 02:07:05 raster: the respective hw-modules for bluetooth and wlan should also be loaded just before they are needed. Oct 18 02:07:39 let's no try to solve multiple different issues at once. Oct 18 02:07:56 Kensan: agreed Oct 18 02:08:05 tho as such can move them for now just to after x startuo Oct 18 02:08:07 tho the problem is Oct 18 02:08:12 they will slow down x as they start in the bg Oct 18 02:08:20 so as such yes Oct 18 02:08:27 they shoudl be set up only on demand Oct 18 02:08:45 Will the user always command them to come up? Oct 18 02:08:48 raster: does upstart do this? Oct 18 02:08:51 If so, that'd normally be after boot? Oct 18 02:09:15 When there is less disk use pressure. Oct 18 02:09:33 Kensan: yes Oct 18 02:09:35 maybe for the bt and wifi the user would need to activate? Oct 18 02:09:40 upstarte basically paralellises Oct 18 02:09:43 the proboem is Oct 18 02:09:52 then u have multipel processes hammering the cpu for context switches Oct 18 02:09:56 or IO from the same device Oct 18 02:09:57 flash Oct 18 02:10:02 raster: I mean does upstart also allow for dynamic modprobing of hardware etc Oct 18 02:10:03 whihc is the limiting bottleneck anyway Oct 18 02:10:09 so it doesn thelp much as harald found out Oct 18 02:10:18 if u are all stuck ion the same resource (IOP) Oct 18 02:10:26 simply reducingt io is the only thing to do Oct 18 02:10:30 ooh Oct 18 02:10:34 modprobing no Oct 18 02:10:37 thats not upstarts job Oct 18 02:10:42 its job it ONLY tro run initscripts Oct 18 02:10:43 raster: I was more thinking of upstart to do the "bring up resource" more dynamically Oct 18 02:10:44 Kensan: yep, a backup/rescue kernel/initfs --- one very simple idea is that we have 4 MB for the kernel -- we can tuck a rescue kernel in the second half of that, that kernel/initrd needs only (for example) to boot, look for a VFAT SD card, scan it for a uImage.bin and/or roofs.jffs2, and flash those if found. Oct 18 02:10:46 but iot knows dependencies Oct 18 02:10:52 so srcips A depends on script B Oct 18 02:10:59 whcih depends on C Oct 18 02:11:06 and so it runs those in order C,B, A Oct 18 02:11:19 but in parallel it can run X, Y because they dont depend on A, B or C Oct 18 02:11:32 mwester: the initrd could contain multiple actions which could be displayed like the uboot menu. save userdata to sd for example Oct 18 02:11:56 That too -- that's more ambitious, but is more compatible with Qi Oct 18 02:12:03 Kensan: if you've already got uboot as a menu system, why do two? Oct 18 02:12:14 (and something I'm working on, as a matter of fact ;) Oct 18 02:12:15 ) Oct 18 02:12:26 SpeedEvil: you can't access everything from uboot Oct 18 02:12:32 SpeedEvil: You don't. We need to dump uboot. Oct 18 02:12:40 mwester: i would opt for just using the microsd for all "rescue" stuff Oct 18 02:12:42 personally Oct 18 02:12:42 mwester: o really :) Oct 18 02:12:44 Kensan: no - I was meaning as a dumb menu. For smarter stuff, yeah. Oct 18 02:12:50 known good kernel on sd Oct 18 02:12:54 known good rootfs on sd Oct 18 02:13:14 after first boot of device userspace in a gui can ask u if u want to make a rescuesd Oct 18 02:13:21 SpeedEvil: well I was jsut expressing that I think a simple textbased menu is enough for rescue stuff. Oct 18 02:13:22 u can make a resue sd from tyour desktop too Oct 18 02:13:24 anywhere Oct 18 02:13:25 anyway back to boot Oct 18 02:13:42 raster: Yeah, but that gets us into the "gotta have a linux system to write the filesystems" thing -- unless you do what was done for the Treo originally. Oct 18 02:13:46 as long as uboot supports a bootmenu of "reflahs from rescue sd" Oct 18 02:13:58 then u have the "all shit hit the fan and i have no pc in sight" solution Oct 18 02:14:01 Which, btw, I have no problem doing for a rescue kernel. Oct 18 02:14:11 mwester: no no Oct 18 02:14:20 raster: I thought upstart can also react to dbus messages. it fits with the whole frameworkd dbus stuff to dynamically bring up hardware or put it back to sleep Oct 18 02:14:21 the sd is pre-prepared by userspace on fr Oct 18 02:14:23 or a desktop Oct 18 02:14:34 all uboot does is mount the fat fs on sd Oct 18 02:14:43 find specific known rescue images Oct 18 02:14:45 Are you going to have the rescue sd with you on every trip you take, then? Oct 18 02:14:45 and flash them Oct 18 02:14:51 when I try to make a screenshot, I am not fast enough to switch to the application I want to shot. How to prevent that? Oct 18 02:14:57 mwester: no - the built-in sd has it Oct 18 02:14:59 mwester: tehre are neat little keychain microSD holders. Oct 18 02:15:03 if u dont make a resscue sd Oct 18 02:15:14 well - silyl you for saying "no i dont want a rescue image" Oct 18 02:15:19 mwester: I think there's enough space on the kernel partition ;) Oct 18 02:15:29 u'll need to get a pc and some internet to downlload/create one Oct 18 02:15:31 raster: focus were on the boot topic Oct 18 02:15:32 ;) Oct 18 02:15:37 * mwester ponders the idea of a uboot option that creates a snapshot of the current flash onto a file on the SD card... Oct 18 02:16:00 mmm Oct 18 02:16:03 mwester: nay reast u'd want to do it from uboot and not userspace? Oct 18 02:16:17 err Oct 18 02:16:18 reason Oct 18 02:16:28 .... because that's REALLY what you want, no? you don't want to reset your phone to a virgin image, if it toasts, you want to restore it from some sane point in time... Oct 18 02:16:40 raster: files in use, and all that. Oct 18 02:16:46 but could be worked around. Oct 18 02:16:48 mwester: yes yes1 Oct 18 02:16:49 mwester: yes but you can do that from the initramfs Oct 18 02:16:57 but the "make my current kernel + rootfs a rescue sd" Oct 18 02:17:01 is just a userspace util Oct 18 02:17:03 u run any time Oct 18 02:17:08 "backup now. my phone is working well" Oct 18 02:17:09 phobie: i have the exact same problem :/ Oct 18 02:17:13 raster: like this one http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/db1c385e6611782621ab61b4bba5c506.png Oct 18 02:17:14 Ok, what I meant was a uboot menu option, I didn't say that uboot CODE would do it! Oct 18 02:17:25 hehe Oct 18 02:17:26 there needs to be a timer Oct 18 02:17:27 As a side-issue - what's the speed of the onboard flash? Oct 18 02:17:29 all the userspace process needs to do is sync Oct 18 02:17:42 But I think raster is right -- we should be able to snapshot a running image reasonably well. Oct 18 02:17:45 kill -STOP all other processes except itself Oct 18 02:17:50 SpeedEvil: abysmal :( let's hope Harald comes through with the hw-ecc patches. Oct 18 02:17:51 mwester: suspend Oct 18 02:17:53 or set the scheduler to realtime fifo Oct 18 02:17:54 write Oct 18 02:18:03 reset scheduler back to normal Oct 18 02:18:04 continue Oct 18 02:18:06 Oooo -- hibernate Oct 18 02:18:10 and snapshot that. Oct 18 02:18:21 and then resume Oct 18 02:18:24 (depends if u want gui updates while saving the rescue - if u want gui then u'll need at least X also working) Oct 18 02:18:24 Then you need to snapshot the FS too tho Oct 18 02:18:33 Yep Oct 18 02:18:34 mwester: that'd also be an option Oct 18 02:18:46 many possibilities Oct 18 02:18:55 these things could all be packed into a neat initramfs :) Oct 18 02:19:01 Yep Oct 18 02:19:02 but i htink the "save my current rootfs/kernel/whgatevre now so i can get back to just this point" as a userspac eutil is a good idea Oct 18 02:19:15 if u really want to solve the "i just blew up my phone" problem Oct 18 02:19:24 'shutdown and save this image as known good' 'd be easy. Oct 18 02:19:55 isn;t that what the 'neotool' does ... snapshot a running image? Oct 18 02:20:01 raster: back to boot stuff? Oct 18 02:20:02 oho not a lot u can do excep thave the snap delayed more Oct 18 02:20:30 sicu: Sort of -- it has some serious problems, not the least of which is that it requires a Linux host. Oct 18 02:20:53 raster: I think upstart is not just the replacement for init scripts bout it can dynamicall start & stop services in response to dbus message Oct 18 02:20:57 Kensan: ok ok :) Oct 18 02:21:07 Can upstart help with managing the sequencing from resume? Oct 18 02:21:08 woo Oct 18 02:21:10 git back Oct 18 02:21:19 raster: hehe sorry for bullying Oct 18 02:21:37 git-fetch; git-rebase origin/master Oct 18 02:21:38 ok Oct 18 02:21:44 thats the update thing for git... right> Oct 18 02:21:47 just need to check Oct 18 02:21:52 mwester: not sure. I don't know upstart too well but it seems it is very flexible Oct 18 02:21:59 raster: you need a patch Oct 18 02:22:12 raster: you can to git pull Oct 18 02:22:27 sorry Oct 18 02:22:31 git-fetch; git-rebase origin Oct 18 02:22:42 Kensan: git-pull seems to make a dogs breakfast of things Oct 18 02:22:55 but that's what git pull does Oct 18 02:23:10 well it seems my patch files end up bizarre Oct 18 02:23:11 speaking of breakfast Oct 18 02:23:19 oh Oct 18 02:23:20 hm Oct 18 02:23:31 and what patch do i need? Oct 18 02:23:34 btw Oct 18 02:23:36 ? Oct 18 02:23:42 well pull does git rebase origin master Oct 18 02:23:49 it rebases your local master on the origin Oct 18 02:23:54 and only the master branch Oct 18 02:24:08 mwester: did you commit the hal patch to oe? Oct 18 02:24:38 raster: sent you the pacth Oct 18 02:25:10 raster: it applies to org.openembedded.dev/conf/checksum.ini Oct 18 02:25:23 ugh Oct 18 02:25:24 ok Oct 18 02:25:32 other git users say NOT to use git-pull Oct 18 02:25:37 so wtf do you use? Oct 18 02:25:48 * raster despises git Oct 18 02:25:58 fecking shit fucks up all the time Oct 18 02:26:21 0_o Oct 18 02:26:22 doesn't git-pull merge, not rebase ;) Oct 18 02:26:30 BobOfDoom: yes Oct 18 02:26:37 my bad Oct 18 02:26:40 one person says git-pull Oct 18 02:26:42 * Kensan hides Oct 18 02:26:49 Alright, sicu. Oct 18 02:26:50 Thank you. Oct 18 02:26:53 then another 2 say "dont do that thats bad - do git-fetch and git-rebase origin" Oct 18 02:26:58 then you say to sod git-pull Oct 18 02:27:08 can git just bloody make up tis midn as tyo what is "svn update" Oct 18 02:27:11 give me one Oct 18 02:27:15 depends what you want to do Oct 18 02:27:17 Tetracomm: np =] Oct 18 02:27:19 i just want to pull in updteram changes and merge them to my tree Oct 18 02:27:21 thats all Oct 18 02:27:22 simple Oct 18 02:27:22 if you're trying to keep patches floating on top Oct 18 02:27:28 then rebase Oct 18 02:27:33 i have my own patches Oct 18 02:27:40 ah Oct 18 02:27:41 some of them make it upsteram along the way Oct 18 02:27:50 so your tree has no local commits? Oct 18 02:27:53 you just want to update? Oct 18 02:27:53 They need to put the features on the phone's page though. Oct 18 02:27:55 yes - it does Oct 18 02:27:57 local commits Oct 18 02:28:01 i have a nice patchset Oct 18 02:28:04 ok Oct 18 02:28:09 raster: you should do the local commits on a branch Oct 18 02:28:09 rebase then, to keep your patches on top Oct 18 02:28:11 not the master Oct 18 02:28:12 i export them with fromatpatch whenever i rebase Oct 18 02:28:17 and i publish that Oct 18 02:28:22 thats my way of "complyign with gpl" Oct 18 02:28:29 ie i offer my patches to all upsteram stuff Oct 18 02:28:36 Kensan: i do Oct 18 02:28:42 git-checkout -b $USER Oct 18 02:28:48 i have my raster branch i always live in Oct 18 02:28:57 when you do the git pull you should me on the master branch Oct 18 02:29:11 at least it works for me ok ... Oct 18 02:29:42 but rebase is probably more in sync with your workflow... Oct 18 02:29:50 * BobOfDoom just avoids git pull and does fetch and rebase or merge seperately, depending on what I'm doing Oct 18 02:29:58 if applying stuff to some upsteram, rebase is probably what you want Oct 18 02:30:02 it will keep your patches ontop of upstream Oct 18 02:31:52 damned it's 4:30 here Oct 18 02:33:41 lol Oct 18 02:35:27 * raster is buys re-applying patches by hand thanks to git upsteram screwage Oct 18 02:35:49 :( Oct 18 02:36:17 Well I need to get some sleep Oct 18 02:37:04 nite man! Oct 18 02:37:14 raster: I will try to look into udev/mdev tomorrow... Oct 18 02:37:21 cool Oct 18 02:37:37 ooh bollockpoobumcrap Oct 18 02:37:46 raster: the one patch I sent you was the only one necessary to build illume again. Oct 18 02:37:46 how do i apply a git binary diff? Oct 18 02:38:01 git binary diff? Oct 18 02:38:05 git-apply Oct 18 02:38:08 git apply Oct 18 02:38:13 git-am should swallo anything I think? Oct 18 02:38:59 anyway Oct 18 02:39:08 raster: catch you tomorrow/later Oct 18 02:39:18 grrr Oct 18 02:39:21 it doesnt apply Oct 18 02:39:29 raster: let's see where we get with this boot thingy. Oct 18 02:39:29 but it errors out at firs doesnt apply Oct 18 02:39:32 i know it conflicts Oct 18 02:39:34 i'll fix it later Oct 18 02:40:31 good luck Oct 18 02:40:35 later Oct 18 02:40:35 ooh wait Oct 18 02:40:37 it did Oct 18 02:40:42 it just silently added the files Oct 18 02:57:35 ok Oct 18 02:57:42 home var fix now in local git commit list Oct 18 02:57:47 lets see Oct 18 02:57:51 who else is on the chopping block Oct 18 02:59:23 haha **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Oct 18 02:59:56 2008