**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Oct 27 02:59:57 2008 Oct 27 03:06:32 techiem2-r: at least your desk is reasonably neat Oct 27 03:06:33 :) Oct 27 03:06:47 though the rest of the room needs some... work Oct 27 03:06:48 :) Oct 27 03:07:18 lol Oct 27 03:08:17 haven't touched my freerunner in a couple months, which distro should I try? Oct 27 03:08:49 hah - yeah Oct 27 03:09:28 do the planet latest first Oct 27 03:11:15 http://www.tuxbrain.com/fdom_en.html Oct 27 03:14:20 base image looked pretty good Oct 27 03:15:00 keeps segv the good keyboard Oct 27 03:38:05 fdom tangogps obtained fix in 2 minuits inside the house Oct 27 03:38:23 no external antenea Oct 27 03:44:24 is that good? =P Oct 27 03:45:13 i think so Oct 27 03:47:01 Did you update the kernel? Oct 27 03:47:04 thata fast Oct 27 03:47:59 nope Oct 27 03:48:03 * mwester wonders if the fdom/ASU distro now does the gps assist stuff, like FSO. Oct 27 03:49:02 i used 20080913 kernel Oct 27 04:52:56 hey, I installed debian onto the freerunner and set it to always boot off the uSD card by default. Is there a way I can do a factory reset on the freerunner so that it'll start booting off flash again? Oct 27 04:54:50 ok Oct 27 04:54:59 illume is moving off to e's tree Oct 27 04:55:01 MUHAHAHAHAH Oct 27 04:55:55 uh? Oct 27 04:56:08 mine never has booted to sd by default how dsid u do that? Oct 27 04:57:43 I followed the instructions on the installing debian page Oct 27 05:27:13 raster: is that good? Oct 27 05:27:35 easier to access? Oct 27 05:27:49 more official? Oct 27 05:28:49 if u havent seen the new wizard in e17 Oct 27 05:28:52 it wont make sense Oct 27 05:28:59 if u get e "fresh" Oct 27 05:29:02 rm -rf ~/.e Oct 27 05:29:06 get it from svn now Oct 27 05:29:21 adn build/install and select as your login session from your login manager Oct 27 05:29:24 it'll all become clear Oct 27 05:29:25 :) Oct 27 05:29:46 ah...I'll have to try that later Oct 27 05:29:48 cool Oct 27 05:30:07 let me just fix the illume build now its in e's tree Oct 27 07:23:24 hi, i'm trying to do an update of my neo1973 to testing release Oct 27 07:23:37 but i have an error with openmoko-alsa-scenarios Oct 27 07:23:47 ERROR: Package openmoko-alsa-scenarios (parent openmoko-alsa-scenarios) is not available from any configured src. Oct 27 07:24:00 and if i try to install it directly i have this: Oct 27 07:24:10 Multiple packages (openmoko-alsa-scenarios and openmoko-alsa-scenarios) providing same name marked HOLD or PREFER. Using latest. Oct 27 07:24:16 how can i resolve this problem? Oct 27 07:24:20 thanks in advance Oct 27 07:24:44 what means that package is not available from any configured src Oct 27 07:24:47 ? Oct 27 08:00:17 morning Oct 27 08:05:23 Morning Oct 27 08:07:06 AceOfHertz: just edit uboot configuration Oct 27 08:28:17 openmoko: 03john_lee 07org.openmoko.dev * re64c2e367af6 10/packages/openmoko-projects/assassin_svn.bb: assassin: increase PR to reflect the EFL ABI change. Oct 27 08:38:10 <[df]> morning Oct 27 08:38:23 <[df]> what kernel should be used with qtx 4.4.1? the same one that came with 4.3.2? Oct 27 08:50:51 cd Oct 27 10:15:08 freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * rf18d1617b3a8 10/framework/subsystems/oeventsd/parser.py: Oct 27 10:15:08 freesmartphone.org: oeventsd: using yaml CLoader Oct 27 10:15:08 freesmartphone.org: This make things faster, but there is a problem : it is not possible to tell yaml to automatically Oct 27 10:15:09 freesmartphone.org: interpret the functions anymore, so we have to do it manually after each call to yaml.load, and iterate the structure Oct 27 10:15:14 freesmartphone.org: looking for functions. It is really not a very good solution. Oct 27 12:17:57 Hi! I am trying to install debian on my freerunner, but I've got a little problem. I am behind a firewall (school firewall) and can't get the rdate or ping working. Is it possible to skip rdate in the .sh file? Oct 27 12:20:31 I am expecting my FR very soon, what can I expect from the 2008.9/10 system. Can I reliable place a phone call, send an sms and use the FR as an alarmclock? Oct 27 12:21:31 ffs. Oct 27 12:21:39 I turned on some server widget thing on qT Oct 27 12:21:44 and now I can never access the menu.. Oct 27 12:21:48 anyone know of a fix? Oct 27 12:21:57 I'll try and crash the widget or something Oct 27 12:31:19 ahoi Oct 27 12:52:06 raster: ping Oct 27 12:52:14 pong Oct 27 12:52:43 raster: do you have more recent images than from the 11th october? Oct 27 12:58:52 edistar: umm. no. i ahvent made any recently Oct 27 12:59:38 ok, thanks for the info Oct 27 12:59:54 been busy on code Oct 27 12:59:55 not images Oct 27 12:59:56 :) Oct 27 13:00:36 raster: I have a current image Oct 27 13:00:51 raster: but I have no place to put it (yet) Oct 27 13:01:05 aaah Oct 27 13:01:17 everything has broken as of today for usre Oct 27 13:01:19 sure Oct 27 13:01:25 illume has moved to e's own tree Oct 27 13:01:26 ie the wm Oct 27 13:01:29 no separate thnig now Oct 27 13:01:35 so the illume packages need to go Oct 27 13:01:46 and the illume theme packeges are no longer needed Oct 27 13:01:52 raster: ah. right. Oct 27 13:01:56 all of it is out-of-the-box for e upstream (the wm itself) Oct 27 13:02:09 e's first run wizard will take care of it all Oct 27 13:02:13 offer u langauge choices Oct 27 13:02:16 and profiel choices Oct 27 13:02:17 etc. Oct 27 13:03:13 ah the wizard :) Oct 27 13:03:27 yes Oct 27 13:03:28 the wiz Oct 27 13:03:30 now Oct 27 13:03:33 if u have e17's svnj tree Oct 27 13:03:35 rm-rf ~/.e Oct 27 13:03:40 and rebuild al of e and the libs Oct 27 13:03:48 (i asume u have a script?) Oct 27 13:03:50 and run e Oct 27 13:03:51 and see Oct 27 13:03:52 :) Oct 27 13:06:32 the script is called get_e.sh and was written by a compulsive scripter afaik Oct 27 13:06:33 ;) Oct 27 13:07:03 i'll give it a shot later tonight Oct 27 13:13:31 hehe Oct 27 13:13:33 try it Oct 27 13:13:36 u'll like it Oct 27 13:13:44 basically illume setup is handheld for u Oct 27 13:13:49 as is desktop or any other setup Oct 27 13:14:01 alright Oct 27 13:14:03 l Oct 27 13:14:34 maybe I'll also get around cleanung up the bootstuff... Oct 27 13:17:43 raster: moin! :) Oct 27 13:18:01 DocScrutinizer: boo Oct 27 13:45:43 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r9909d91194e1 10/framework/subsystems/oeventsd/fso_triggers.py: Oct 27 13:45:43 freesmartphone.org: oeventsd: Fix IncomingMessage trigger (thanks quickdev) Oct 27 13:45:43 freesmartphone.org: This follows the org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM API change from Oct 27 13:45:43 freesmartphone.org: IncomingMessage to IncomingStoredMessage Oct 27 14:20:56 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r4a630de01b4a 10/ (3 files in 2 dirs): fix lock screen and remove suspend handling Oct 27 14:27:57 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * r186b42f04682 10/ (3 files in 3 dirs): oeventsd: handle suspend as a rule Oct 27 14:27:58 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * reb67178c2183 10/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Merge branch 'stabilization/milestone4' Oct 27 14:36:36 I am expecting my FR very soon, what can I expect from the 2008.9/10 system? Can I reliable place a phone call, send an sms and use the FR as an alarmclock? Oct 27 14:40:29 Daramarak: yes Oct 27 14:41:05 because we will see openmoko 2008.10 that seems to be very stable Oct 27 14:41:08 and android of google Oct 27 14:41:18 Sounds very good Oct 27 14:41:33 Well, there's that qtopia thing Oct 27 14:41:58 Qtopia thing? Oct 27 14:49:29 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r2b80f1ba544f 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/abstract/mediator.py: ogsmd: Use PDUAddress.guess for org.freesmartphone.GSM.SMS.SendMessage Oct 27 15:01:26 It's too bad that the usb gadget ethernet connection appears to get a new hardware address every time my neo is plugged in. Oct 27 15:01:51 Otherwise NetworkManager 0.7 would work very nicely for setting up the address automatically when I plug it in. Oct 27 15:19:26 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07stabilization/milestone4 * r9182ea6fbf3d 10framework/ (conf/example/frameworkd.conf framework/persist.py): persist: add support for the pickle format and use it per default Oct 27 15:20:17 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * r83328aadbb05 10/ (conf/example/frameworkd.conf framework/persist.py): Merge branch 'stabilization/milestone4' Oct 27 15:20:44 g'day. Oct 27 15:37:37 Leinir! Oct 27 15:38:59 * leinir curtsies :) Oct 27 15:39:07 :) Oct 27 15:39:19 * Dave pets the leinir Oct 27 15:49:17 i think the speakers need to be moved away from the mic position ha thats an engineering no-no Oct 27 15:49:38 i think it should be cheaper Oct 27 15:50:56 another thing is asound tube on the mic port opening would stop ant resounding effect Oct 27 15:54:32 is it everyone having the gsm reregistering problem of just some of us? Oct 27 15:55:05 i mean was it happening on all phones at some point? Oct 27 15:55:28 or just certain ones? Oct 27 15:56:01 Slaxxin: http://moko.mwester.net/brc.html Oct 27 15:56:23 (#1024) Oct 27 15:56:40 i tried the base image walk through provided on the planet an sure enough the reregistering problem was dead Oct 27 15:56:59 also my sound was dead Oct 27 15:57:06 :D Oct 27 15:57:08 Cool Oct 27 15:57:11 Everybody wins! Oct 27 15:57:15 :P Oct 27 15:57:40 i could call an the call could be answered but no sound either was Oct 27 15:57:51 oh, shitty :p Oct 27 15:57:56 either way Oct 27 15:58:02 fuck Oct 27 15:58:12 I think this device just OMSoD'ed Oct 27 15:58:30 but the base image might just be with no sound i dont know Oct 27 15:58:45 It shouldn't be. Oct 27 15:59:39 well all i had was a settings icon although the /etc/network/interfaces was setup properly Oct 27 16:00:00 with addresses installed Oct 27 16:00:26 i didnt check the md5sums though Oct 27 16:01:09 now im off to make money so i had to put fdom back on Oct 27 16:01:18 bye dave Oct 27 16:02:42 those daily reports on the planet are a very good thing Oct 27 16:08:19 @slaxxin: weird, I have sound on my base image Oct 27 16:32:44 Mobile phones can be dangerous! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7693386.stm (when combined with idiots) Oct 27 16:38:31 Geeze, that's terrible, Speedevil. Oct 27 16:44:40 i see the no icons in illume is now fixed in testing... does this mean only in the images or also for testing repository updates? Oct 27 16:44:51 i have updated now and I still dont see icons Oct 27 16:48:53 in the images, it is solved Oct 27 16:49:11 I don't know if it is already solved in the updates Oct 27 16:51:45 dolf1074: Hi. Noticed you were trying to contact me over the weekend... Oct 27 16:52:00 Hello gentlemen. Oct 27 16:52:12 hi Dave Oct 27 16:52:25 just to ask if there is an update on the android thing Oct 27 16:53:57 dolf1074: In the thick of it. Nothing notable at the moment. Oct 27 16:55:07 So just doing further with the arm5 to arm4 'translation' Oct 27 17:08:15 Tasn. Oct 27 17:12:35 hey Oct 27 17:13:45 :) Oct 27 17:44:13 is the FR capable of emulating a wii remote? Oct 27 17:45:05 No. Oct 27 17:45:06 No camera Oct 27 17:45:20 no infrared rather ? Oct 27 17:45:34 The wii remote has an IR camera Oct 27 17:46:05 I see Oct 27 17:46:21 k, just checking Oct 27 17:46:24 thanks anyway Oct 27 17:47:42 haha camera Oct 27 17:47:50 haha Wii Oct 27 17:48:10 hahaha Nintendo Oct 27 17:48:40 stfu Oct 27 17:52:25 hi Oct 27 17:52:48 * hero stops time Oct 27 17:52:53 news about Om 2008.10? We are near november.... Oct 27 17:54:03 :o Oct 27 17:54:29 i heard they are waiting to release it because it isn't b0rked enough as it is, they need to remove some functionality first Oct 27 17:54:39 :P Oct 27 17:54:41 hah hah Oct 27 17:57:02 get the gun Oct 27 17:59:41 nope were going to use the stun gun first ...an if that don't turn u from your evil ways,, well then ,, might have to switch to the phaser Oct 27 18:00:11 <[df]> don't phase me, bro! Oct 27 18:06:57 anyone could be said me a workaround to resolve this error: Oct 27 18:07:01 ERROR: Package openmoko-alsa-scenarios (parent openmoko-alsa-scenarios) is not available from any configured src Oct 27 18:07:23 on testing/om-gta01 repository Oct 27 18:10:20 hello, was the pygtk _init bug fixed or should i bugreport? Oct 27 18:10:32 it was solved in the base image Oct 27 18:26:09 dolf1074, ok thanks Oct 27 18:26:14 :) Oct 27 18:42:34 hello :) Oct 27 18:43:54 freesmartphone.org: 03morphis * r308 10/trunk/ (7 files in 4 dirs): Added elm_layout_demo and some changes on python-elementary Oct 27 18:49:33 dolf1074: ping Oct 27 18:51:57 pong Oct 27 18:52:19 dolf1074: didn't I upload an illume-image to one of your servers? Oct 27 18:52:26 yup Oct 27 18:52:42 http://alasal.be/kensan/ Oct 27 18:53:06 dolf1074: I am building a new image. Would it be ok if I uploaded it there and to share it with some people? Oct 27 18:53:15 ok Oct 27 18:53:23 dolf1074: do you pay for bandwidth etc? Oct 27 18:53:30 unlimited Oct 27 18:53:44 dolf1074: ok, that would be cool :) Oct 27 18:53:54 dolf1074: my own server is still not up :( Oct 27 18:54:06 not good ;( Oct 27 18:54:27 dolf1074: should be ready in 1 or 2 weeks though Oct 27 18:54:40 Do you need more space than the previous time? Oct 27 18:55:03 dolf1074: the image should be a bit larger since it contains fso and a couple other apps but I don't think all that big... Oct 27 18:55:26 dolf1074: I don't know how big it will get since it's building atm Oct 27 18:55:42 ah ok Oct 27 18:55:58 with 80 mb, you will be okay? Oct 27 18:56:11 dolf1074: I hope so :) Oct 27 18:56:23 dolf1074: you can delete the other stuff Oct 27 18:56:26 btw Oct 27 18:56:34 dolf1074: well if you don't need it yourself that is *heh* Oct 27 18:56:49 I've already downloaded it ;) Oct 27 18:57:20 dolf1074: alright. I'll go for dinner and be back in a bit. Oct 27 18:57:25 okay Oct 27 18:57:27 dolf1074: the image should be done by then. Oct 27 18:57:32 dolf1074: thanks in advance! Oct 27 18:57:43 I will have my ftp settings done :p Oct 27 18:58:07 dolf1074: awesome! Oct 27 18:58:12 Kensan. Oct 27 18:58:23 Dave? Oct 27 18:59:08 Dave: bbiab, you can pull my leg when I am back ;) Oct 27 18:59:39 Alright Oct 27 19:04:03 Tonights entertainment: 'live leg pulling', and 'we party whilst the FR boots' ... prepare for an all-nighter Oct 27 19:04:23 \o/ Oct 27 19:05:32 lol Oct 27 19:06:51 Hallo ronny Oct 27 19:09:03 How do we get this #1024 calypso no deep sleep patch into om2008.9? Should it be in the same package qtopia-phone-x11-phonevendor-ficgta01vendor as in the echo patch? What is the MokoMakefile package to build? Oct 27 19:09:55 :[ Oct 27 19:10:14 yo Dave Oct 27 19:10:30 im busy hacking an ide Oct 27 19:22:18 hi all :) Oct 27 19:23:50 somebody here? :) Oct 27 19:24:14 i'm sure you'll sniff somone out Oct 27 19:24:19 hehe oke cool Oct 27 19:24:32 i have just 2 days my new openmoko :) Oct 27 19:24:49 and im enjoying it :) Oct 27 19:26:16 good good =] Oct 27 19:27:52 just saw an iPod touch ad presenting some accelerometer based games Oct 27 19:28:29 a racing game where you steered your vehicle using the ipod in landscape mode as a steering wheel Oct 27 19:28:35 hehe Oct 27 19:28:39 should be possible with the FR too :) Oct 27 19:28:44 yes :) Oct 27 19:28:50 would be awesome :) Oct 27 19:28:57 some marble labyrint Oct 27 19:29:38 back Oct 27 19:29:53 is it a bug, that in qt extended when you recieved a new message, you will get all messages in your inbox again? Oct 27 19:29:58 Dave: so what's up? Oct 27 19:30:01 Wonka! Oct 27 19:30:02 or is it a problem that i can solve? :) Oct 27 19:30:08 Toggles :) Oct 27 19:31:05 wish i had more time for working on FOSS stuff... Oct 27 19:31:14 university sucks sometimes Oct 27 19:31:25 Dave: !-; Oct 27 19:31:40 Wonka: not as bad as a real job Oct 27 19:32:26 toggles_w: nak. i got a student's job which may lead to a real job, and that would mean working from 9 to 18 Oct 27 19:32:41 toggles_w: university means much more time Oct 27 19:42:26 dolf1074: ping Oct 27 19:42:33 dolf1074: I got the image Oct 27 19:42:38 ok Oct 27 19:42:56 how can you chat privately? Oct 27 19:46:54 dolf1074: /query Kensan Oct 27 19:47:29 bumbl: yes? Oct 27 19:48:47 dolf1074: you asked how one could chat privately and i told you Oct 27 19:48:52 /query nick Oct 27 19:49:16 ow, I already found it Oct 27 19:49:44 in chatzilla: right click -> user commands -> private chat :) Oct 27 19:53:10 wassup today Oct 27 19:59:43 i need some, help i cant acces my SD card at all on my freerunner Oct 27 19:59:59 at least not at /dev/mmcblk0 Oct 27 20:00:53 its just the orginal openmoko card like i got it with the device, im not able to put it in my pc :x Oct 27 20:10:02 Bloodhound? Oct 27 20:10:12 So you're not able to access it on your pc (via cardreader)? Oct 27 20:11:29 i dont have a cardreader yet :x tommorow im gona buy it Oct 27 20:11:50 but i have acces yo a windows pc with card reader Oct 27 20:11:57 but i dont wanna format it in fat Oct 27 20:13:01 but the strange thing i see now, is some days ago i recovered /media/card/ just put a photo on it Oct 27 20:13:06 flashed my moko some thimes Oct 27 20:13:14 the picture is still there now Oct 27 20:13:35 but there is not anything in /dev/ that looks my card Oct 27 20:13:39 Bloodhound: you could boot the windows pc with a livecd? Oct 27 20:13:41 and i want to install debian on it Oct 27 20:13:55 i could try that :) Oct 27 20:14:12 do you think when i formatted in ext2 it should be fine? Oct 27 20:14:49 dunno what the FR expects to find on the card, sorry Oct 27 20:15:03 oke. Oct 27 20:15:42 but if you get to see what's on the card now, that might be a starting point Oct 27 20:16:05 Bloodhound: http://www.fs-driver.org/ Oct 27 20:16:31 :) Oct 27 20:16:39 im gona try to acces the card from the windows pc! Oct 27 20:16:44 thx for now i will give an update :) Oct 27 20:26:57 hi, i have a probòem with suspension...it does'nt work...(erasing /.e/e/ works, but after charging battery FR gos blank but not in suspension)...anybody know? Oct 27 20:37:30 OMG sorry for mistakes...i'm reading to get involved with OSM :-) Oct 27 20:57:12 Its oke now with my FR :) Oct 27 20:57:19 card is showing up :) Oct 27 20:57:23 after formatting it in ext2 Oct 27 21:34:52 How do we get this #1024 calypso no deep sleep patch into om2008.9? Can I use MokoMakefile for this? QtopiaOnX11 look like a completly separate package.. I'll try that anyway.. Oct 27 21:52:45 moo Oct 27 21:53:14 freesmartphone.org: 03morphis * r309 10/trunk/python-elementary/src/ (elementary.pxd elementary.pyx window.pxd): First implementation of classes window and box Oct 27 21:55:09 Ghiottone: hi there. If I understand it correctly, you've also been looking at boottime. Oct 27 21:56:38 coo Oct 27 21:58:06 Ghiottone: did you make progress there? Oct 27 21:59:52 Kensan, hello Oct 27 21:59:58 Greetings, Kensan. Oct 27 22:00:49 Kensan, yes I did some work to speed up boot time. But it was an year ago on gta01. I'm not doing it anymore. I'm working on other things at the moment Oct 27 22:02:13 Ghiottone: oh ok. I happened to stumble upon some of your postings on the ML about bootchart + mtd. afaik MTD does not provide iostats. Oct 27 22:02:19 Dave: hey there. Oct 27 22:03:20 Kensan, yes, that was my realization too and it was confirmed by mtd developers Oct 27 22:04:13 Ghiottone: ok, maybe one of the mtd devs is listening ;) Oct 27 22:04:52 Kensan, but in a recent email on the devel mailing list Harald stated he gets some stats on his gta02 Oct 27 22:05:21 Kensan, I contacted them directly and they said that /proc/diskstats made little sense for mtd devices Oct 27 22:05:33 Kensan, as they are very different from a common disk device Oct 27 22:05:59 Kensan, I guessed that this meant they weren't going to implement that Oct 27 22:06:15 Kensan, I tried it myself but lacked the knowledge and the time to learn it Oct 27 22:06:22 Kensan, so I stopped there Oct 27 22:07:36 Kensan, I also did some bootcharts. They are on the wiki at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Alessandro#BOOT_PHASE Oct 27 22:08:07 Ghiottone: hm... yeah the mail from Harald confused me a bit since I don't get anything on my device. Oct 27 22:08:16 Ghiottone: yes, I've seen those thanks. Oct 27 22:08:25 Kensan, do you have a gta02 or 01? Oct 27 22:09:00 Ghiottone: I have both but I am primarily testing with GTA02 Oct 27 22:09:48 can someone help me get my freerunner functioning? Oct 27 22:10:03 if he ants to play, sure Oct 27 22:10:07 bah Oct 27 22:10:32 Ghiottone: hm well I think there should be a sensible way to measure IO for mtd devices... Oct 27 22:10:43 with either the 2008.8 or 2008.9 images, I get no wifi and no backlight, plus I can't shut the thing off Oct 27 22:10:44 Ghiottone: haven't looked into it though. Oct 27 22:10:55 no sound either Oct 27 22:11:32 Kensan, the mtd developer said adding stats should have been a trivial task. If you have some basic linux kernel development skill youcould try Oct 27 22:13:12 do the 2008.8 or 2008.9 images work for the rest of you? Oct 27 22:13:15 Ghiottone: hm ok, havent looked into it. Guess it comes down to incrementing some values on write/read Oct 27 22:13:48 Ghiottone: did you ask on the mtd-ml? Oct 27 22:14:19 Kensan, yes. I think the hardest part is to know where to put those inc instructions and which are the right var Oct 27 22:14:33 Kensan, no I did it on the irc channel iirc Oct 27 22:14:36 Ghiottone: hehe yeah, Oct 27 22:16:06 Ghiottone: well thanks for the info. Oct 27 22:16:22 Ghiottone: what are you currently working on if I might ask? Oct 27 22:16:44 Kensan, np Oct 27 22:17:13 Kensan, openmoko related, I'm working to port my own microkernel operating system to gta01 Oct 27 22:18:17 Kensan, and I seldom work on the google custom search engine for openmoko Oct 27 22:20:06 do you have to update the kernel aswell when you update from 2007.11 to 2008.8? Oct 27 22:20:14 Ghiottone: sounds interesting. Do you have any links to the microkernel project you could share? Oct 27 22:20:50 raster: ping Oct 27 22:21:03 Kensan, sure. everything is open source. but there is very little for the ARM architecture as we have just started working on the port Oct 27 22:21:45 Kensan, but we are making progress. main url is at http://osso.sourceforge.net (http://sf.net/projects/osso) Oct 27 22:22:34 Ghiottone: well I am interested in microkernel stuff in general too so thats good news :) Oct 27 22:22:37 Kensan, but is a bit outdated. an other one with some other info is at http://aiurlano.netsons.org/joomla/osso/ Oct 27 22:23:03 Kensan, great! we are looking for interested developers that want to join the project Oct 27 22:23:10 Kensan: pong! Oct 27 22:24:28 Ghiottone: heh well I've got my own couple projects so time is tight... :) Oct 27 22:24:48 Ghiottone: but I always like to look at new and interesting stuff Oct 27 22:24:53 raster: sent you some patches. Oct 27 22:25:10 Kensan, yeah I understand. everybody always need more time! Oct 27 22:25:30 Ghiottone: yeah... well it's the same for everyone. Oct 27 22:26:22 Kensan, are you keeping an eye on some other microkernel project? Oct 27 22:27:49 Ghiottone: nah not really. just on and off but not at the code level. Oct 27 22:29:24 anybody home? Oct 27 22:29:36 Kensan: saw! :) Oct 27 22:30:38 raster: I am waiting for your dismissfull and NACK with a couple aussie swearwords I haven't heard before *heh* Oct 27 22:30:50 HAHAHAHAHA Oct 27 22:31:37 raster: or whatever other language you prefer to swear in. Oct 27 22:32:24 Kensan, what if anything have you discovered about the booting? Oct 27 22:32:29 Raster, my gang grows! Oct 27 22:32:53 I am going to become a well-armed illume-inated madman, fear me. Oct 27 22:32:59 Kensan: it's on my queue - unfortunately its a growing queue :( Oct 27 22:33:00 Dave: that it still sucks? Oct 27 22:34:27 raster: no worries, it's all minor stuff. I am trying to put all the stuff I simply hacked into the phone into nice patches that could go into oe but it's not that easy to integrate device/distro specific stuff into oe. Oct 27 22:34:28 :( Oct 27 22:34:33 That's not a new discovery :( Oct 27 22:34:33 raster: need to get the hang of that. Oct 27 22:34:42 Guys, what distros do you run on your phones? Oct 27 22:34:55 Dave: well I got the illume-image from 1min 50 secs to 50 secs Oct 27 22:34:57 Kensan: :) Oct 27 22:35:05 once u get the hang of doifn it at the oe/build level Oct 27 22:35:08 it gets easier Oct 27 22:35:24 Dave: but that's WITHOUT any fso/phone stuff. Oct 27 22:35:29 oh :| Oct 27 22:35:32 Dave: which will add another 40 secs at least Oct 27 22:35:35 so it's a bittersweet success. Oct 27 22:35:38 yeah Oct 27 22:35:52 oh well, not THAT bad. Oct 27 22:35:53 Dave: good thing is, that I have not looked at kernel&bootloader at all. Qi should help a lot Oct 27 22:36:02 Yeah, it should :) Oct 27 22:36:07 I look foward to hearing more about it. Oct 27 22:36:29 Dave: and I am sure there's still a lot of room for improvement. I am just putting some of the stuff into patches so I can feed them to raster ;) Oct 27 22:37:13 Yeah, it's good! Oct 27 22:37:16 Dave: well the OM people are working on it too so I am sure they will come up with other stuff. Plus Harald seems to be looking into it so you can def. expect improvements from him :) Oct 27 22:37:33 yeah, of course, but then time is just the key factor :P Oct 27 22:37:40 of which om tends to lack. Oct 27 22:37:48 or misplace, time and time again. Oct 27 22:37:50 :| Oct 27 22:38:10 well we will see. Oct 27 22:38:22 damnit Oct 27 22:38:38 I get the "over-current change on port ?" again. Oct 27 22:38:50 something is off either with my notebook or my FR Oct 27 22:38:57 o_O Oct 27 22:38:57 it draws too much power Oct 27 22:39:02 rut roh Oct 27 22:39:09 I hope the issue does not escalate :D Oct 27 22:39:20 anybody got hints on how to debug? Oct 27 22:39:33 because now I can't get at the logs from FR: Oct 27 22:40:08 hm I don't think this is particularly good for the device... the screen flickers. Oct 27 22:40:26 :( Oct 27 22:40:27 bad. Oct 27 22:41:21 hm I guess it's a FR issue... Oct 27 22:43:17 hey all, i just wanted you all to know that Synergy on debian on the moko works prefectly! its simply amazing, mouse and keyboard and all... :) Oct 27 22:43:22 I imagine the screen flickering is just because your laptop is turning the power on and off. it probably isn't doing the FR any real harm. Oct 27 22:43:52 pb_: hm ok. Oct 27 22:43:59 if you're seeing overcurrent messages then either the FR is drawing more than its 500mA entitlement, or it's drawing more than 100mA without warning the host in advance. Oct 27 22:44:03 pb_: would you know why that happens? Oct 27 22:44:12 pb_: ok that makes sense Oct 27 22:44:20 pb, likely the latter Oct 27 22:44:24 raster: hi raster, my compliments for the new E17 theme. it simply kicks asses. really elegant and classy. can't wait for E17 to come out in the light. (sorry for OT anyone); my compliments on elementary too. =) Oct 27 22:44:29 Kensan: have you got FR on the same hub as some other device ? Oct 27 22:44:29 ciao Dave Oct 27 22:44:46 pb_: do you have any pointers on usb-debugging? Oct 27 22:44:50 cga :) Oct 27 22:44:54 FilipLinux4BE: no it's the only device plugged in. Oct 27 22:44:55 =) Oct 27 22:45:08 Kensan, what is it currently pulling? Oct 27 22:45:29 the only time I ever had an usb over-current was with a faulty usb cable Oct 27 22:45:49 I've gotten it a few times Oct 27 22:45:59 once because I had a card reader plugged into the same bus Oct 27 22:46:05 and didn't realize it was fucking things up Oct 27 22:46:18 Dave: how can I tell? Oct 27 22:46:35 and the other time was because I was trying to write a charging app, and fucked up the parameters :D Oct 27 22:46:53 well good night everyone. Oct 27 22:46:55 kensan, there are a number of available battery monitoring apps which will tell you this Oct 27 22:46:59 go mokos go! Oct 27 22:47:16 Kensan: linux or windows host ? Oct 27 22:47:26 FilipLinux4BE: linux Oct 27 22:47:29 Kensan: "lsusb -v" should tell you how much power the FR is claiming to draw Oct 27 22:47:47 http://www.kroah.com/linux-usb/ Oct 27 22:48:27 is you're using a notebook, some ports might be on the same hub internally (like mouse or integrated webcam) Oct 27 22:48:39 seems like 0100 Oct 27 22:48:44 assuming the FR is the same as the gta01, if it says that it's in "fast charging" mode then it will be drawing 500mA. Oct 27 22:49:32 Kensan: look for a line that says "MaxPower" Oct 27 22:49:45 pb_: oh, that's at 0mA Oct 27 22:49:46 ... Oct 27 22:49:47 hm Oct 27 22:50:11 hm, that doesn't sound good Oct 27 22:50:24 heh Oct 27 22:56:02 hey pb_ Oct 27 22:57:25 LJP Oct 27 22:57:43 in theopenmoko device section Oct 27 22:57:43 cg :) Oct 27 22:57:56 bah too late Oct 27 22:58:09 hehe Oct 27 22:58:18 I need to flash another freerunner Oct 27 22:59:47 what u gonna put on it dave:)? Oct 27 23:00:11 ILLUME Oct 27 23:00:20 put DEBIAN! Oct 27 23:00:29 the latest stuff? Oct 27 23:00:38 hi ljp Oct 27 23:01:20 can the daily image change from 1 hour to the next? Oct 27 23:01:50 drift? Oct 27 23:02:53 which pkg u putting on Dave? Oct 27 23:03:40 Did I not just say? Oct 27 23:04:47 well the latest daily has illun=me then rasters image Oct 27 23:05:03 English please. Oct 27 23:07:46 cuz i done told ye son rasters stuff or the latest daily are yer only choices Oct 27 23:07:54 haha Oct 27 23:07:57 hows at Oct 27 23:08:06 tf ? Oct 27 23:08:08 WE ARE NOT AMUSED. Oct 27 23:08:13 sorry Oct 27 23:10:52 elvis would has said it that way Oct 27 23:11:01 ... Oct 27 23:24:05 * Dave does the raster dance Oct 27 23:29:51 Mek Oct 27 23:30:47 I just tried 4 distributions Oct 27 23:30:58 I get no audio in any of them Oct 27 23:31:12 on my freerunner Oct 27 23:31:55 haha, wow. Oct 27 23:32:44 TehZorroness: audio should be kernel thing Oct 27 23:33:10 TehZorroness: different distros probably won't help there Oct 27 23:33:15 what kernel would be appropriate for Om2008.8? Oct 27 23:34:58 TehZorroness: no idea, i haven't managed to compile om2008.8 Oct 27 23:35:48 I was trying to use the image linked from the wiki page Oct 27 23:36:10 TehZorroness: i don't do development with systems i can't compile :( Oct 27 23:38:04 makes sense. What are you running then? I'll kill for something that at least functions as a phone :) Oct 27 23:38:27 tihi, i suddenly realized the joys of freedom.. was typing an url ending in .org on freerunner.. suggestions: orgy orgasm etc, that would never happen on T9 Oct 27 23:38:52 :D Oct 27 23:39:08 poetic: you cannot use predictive texting to do anything useful. Oct 27 23:40:28 Dave: still more useful than T9 where the thought police serves the predictions ;) Oct 27 23:40:42 bah, fuck that Oct 27 23:40:57 at least now we get what we want when we start typing f..u..c... Oct 27 23:41:02 and get the correct tenses too :D Oct 27 23:41:13 also for motherfucker, etc. :) Oct 27 23:41:17 Hey, it's quite useful. Oct 27 23:41:31 TehZorroness: debian Oct 27 23:41:51 ahh. What I'm running right now :) Oct 27 23:41:59 (on the desktop) Oct 27 23:42:34 TehZorroness: i can play and record audio with linux-image-2.6.24-openmoko-gta02 20080903.git2ea34171-2 Oct 27 23:44:40 haha eww, it's so iphone Oct 27 23:44:52 lindi, have you tried 2.6.26 yet? Oct 27 23:45:08 Dave: nope Oct 27 23:45:13 okay. Oct 27 23:45:22 enough issues already Oct 27 23:45:36 True enough :D Oct 27 23:45:51 wlan issue is most irritating at the moment Oct 27 23:46:27 Isn't there more than one issue surrounding that? Oct 27 23:46:48 probably Oct 27 23:46:58 got any tips on how to not use the phone while it's charging for the fisrt time? Oct 27 23:47:05 * chi can't resist Oct 27 23:47:06 =/ Oct 27 23:47:24 heehee Oct 27 23:47:31 occupy with something else Oct 27 23:47:33 lindi-, thanks for the advice so far :) Oct 27 23:48:07 chi, make sure it's charging at 1A to relieve your apprehension sooner :P Oct 27 23:48:49 Furthermore, why not use it while it's plugged in? Oct 27 23:49:28 Raster - I demand more sexy applications! Oct 27 23:50:29 i don't understand why anybody would want to spend time in developing pretty UIs at this point but of course they are free to do that :) Oct 27 23:52:00 Dave: working on elementary Oct 27 23:52:29 http://www.rasterman.com/files/elementary-1to1.png Oct 27 23:52:34 http://www.rasterman.com/files/elementary-2to1.png Oct 27 23:52:50 (just showing the ability to scale to the ui) Oct 27 23:53:03 hmm Oct 27 23:53:14 raster: nice looks Oct 27 23:53:50 and just all the test dialogs/widgets so far Oct 27 23:54:10 crazy! Oct 27 23:55:40 are there any update feeds for the qt extended 4.4.1 jffs2 linked from the wiki? the only i can find is http://qtextended.org/packages/feed/4.2.2/arm which doesnt work (trying to use Settings > Software Packages) Oct 27 23:55:51 Dave: it'[s coming along nicely Oct 27 23:56:00 Yes, I can see that... :) Oct 27 23:56:12 priority is a good set of base widgets Oct 27 23:56:19 and then build up bit by bit higher-level ones Oct 27 23:56:24 some are beginign Oct 27 23:56:24 Yeah Oct 27 23:56:29 the notepad widget is a higherlevel one Oct 27 23:56:35 its 3 lines of code to make a test editor Oct 27 23:56:38 text Oct 27 23:56:44 will do the save/load for u Oct 27 23:56:48 so just type Oct 27 23:57:00 I wish menu scrolling could be smooth. Oct 27 23:57:06 handy for simple "add a box for a user to write a note/some text" in an app Oct 27 23:57:10 It's always so depressing with all the power the device has got. Oct 27 23:57:27 it can be smooth Oct 27 23:57:36 What, with 500M swap? Oct 27 23:57:38 but you lose features and create a headache in the gfx pipeline Oct 27 23:57:54 no Oct 27 23:58:00 u need to just sue xcopyarea Oct 27 23:58:04 instead of repaints Oct 27 23:58:09 BUT Oct 27 23:58:14 :| Oct 27 23:58:15 that means u ONLY coyp an area Oct 27 23:58:18 copy Oct 27 23:58:20 I see Oct 27 23:58:24 u cant have a ntarnslucent overlay Oct 27 23:58:25 instead of redrawing everything? Oct 27 23:58:27 or shadowing Oct 27 23:58:37 Fucky Oct 27 23:58:38 or alpha blending onto a background (that doesnt also scroll) Oct 27 23:58:43 basiclly thig Oct 27 23:58:46 firefox Oct 27 23:59:04 uggh, what shit :( Oct 27 23:59:11 http://www.brownielocks.com/fixedbackground.html Oct 27 23:59:12 that Oct 27 23:59:14 where bg is fixed Oct 27 23:59:37 notice scrolling is slower in firefox Oct 27 23:59:58 that when the bg is not fixed Oct 28 00:00:09 thats because it has to go via a "repaint" path Oct 28 00:00:18 for evas that is the ONLY path Oct 28 00:00:25 as it has a generic engine that does anything Oct 28 00:00:36 it doesnt special-case motion vectors being homogenous Oct 28 00:00:47 i did originally plan on having it do motion vector detection Oct 28 00:00:58 and convert those to xcopyarea's (hw blits) Oct 28 00:01:04 but currently it does not Oct 28 00:01:07 I see Oct 28 00:01:19 but over time i noted that that becomes increasingly less likely to be an optimised path as u let artists/themers do mroe fun stuff Oct 28 00:01:22 yeah that sounds like it would surely alleviate my anger somewhat :) Oct 28 00:01:26 also hardware gets faster efery month Oct 28 00:01:31 yeah, true Oct 28 00:01:33 haha Oct 28 00:01:33 and repaints just are blindingly fast on modern systems Oct 28 00:01:46 so its spending code on something that is likely to die away anyway Oct 28 00:01:49 be used less over time Oct 28 00:01:49 unlike the freerunner hardware? Oct 28 00:01:55 yeah, true true Oct 28 00:01:56 :) Oct 28 00:02:16 and only works if you design your ui look and behaviro to work with it Oct 28 00:02:24 also i wrote code to do the detection and its not cheap Oct 28 00:02:43 as u need to have a full logic rect engine following the objetc rects and their motion vector paths Oct 28 00:02:50 if they all have the same motion vector Oct 28 00:03:01 then u can compute a blit region vs a redraw region Oct 28 00:03:25 butu need to delete the "if they did any changes other than move" from the rectlist Oct 28 00:03:32 and handle clipping and the rets Oct 28 00:03:51 the code i have to do that is fairly hefty and i was dubious if in the end it actualyl will speed thnigs up Oct 28 00:04:21 now the big problem here is Oct 28 00:04:28 normally on an "old embedde device" Oct 28 00:04:30 yeah Oct 28 00:04:31 like a freerunenr Oct 28 00:04:34 the fb would be a dumb fb Oct 28 00:04:36 like gta01 Oct 28 00:04:42 and that means a redraw is not bad Oct 28 00:04:50 yeah Oct 28 00:04:54 as u have full memory bandwidth for the update copy Oct 28 00:05:09 that is why efl stuff runs faster on a gta01 Oct 28 00:05:17 despite a much lower clock Oct 28 00:05:18 haha Oct 28 00:05:21 right :) Oct 28 00:05:23 (almsot half the speed) Oct 28 00:05:23 silliness Oct 28 00:05:36 the problme is glamo cant accelerate everything efl uses in xrender Oct 28 00:05:44 so it'd fall back to software fallbacks for many things Oct 28 00:05:48 and... Oct 28 00:05:55 that would result in less speed than u see now Oct 28 00:06:31 also the thnigs that glamo can accelerate are problematic with limitations Oct 28 00:06:48 (eg max surface size is 640x640) Oct 28 00:07:08 and thngs that glamo can't do (cant render TO an ARGB destination. destination is only 16bitrgb565) Oct 28 00:07:33 if glamo did argb32 destination rendering Oct 28 00:07:49 the 640x640 limti could be overcome with complicated software tiling of pixmaps Oct 28 00:08:22 oh god, what a wonder that would bring Oct 28 00:08:32 poor glamo :( Oct 28 00:09:09 also doesnt do non-90 degree rotatiosn (transforms) for 2d Oct 28 00:09:20 i looked into usign the 3d engne to do this Oct 28 00:09:22 and gave up there Oct 28 00:09:27 its even nastier Oct 28 00:10:17 geeze, well, good call then. Oct 28 00:11:58 so basically in the end Oct 28 00:13:03 efl on my 312mhz treo650 with 32m ram and no gfx accel Oct 28 00:13:07 is fairly smooth with scrolling Oct 28 00:13:11 damn Oct 28 00:13:18 with incredibly fancy setups Oct 28 00:13:25 but it sucks on the FR Oct 28 00:13:27 Ah, heh Oct 28 00:13:33 I can see that, once again. :( Oct 28 00:14:18 i can explain all the nitty details any time - i know just whats up Oct 28 00:14:24 gta03 will make it much better Oct 28 00:14:37 and if u do gfx accel the lesson to learn for om is Oct 28 00:14:43 choose your gfx accel wisely Oct 28 00:14:45 very wisely Oct 28 00:14:50 well yeah Oct 28 00:14:56 hahaha, in fact, raster Oct 28 00:15:05 make sure that your ui / gfx ambitions match with everything the gfx chip does Oct 28 00:15:10 if the chi pdoesnt do it Oct 28 00:15:12 find another Oct 28 00:15:15 or dont bother Oct 28 00:15:20 Everytime this point comes up, it reminds me of that scene at the end of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade Oct 28 00:15:31 Where the knight says, "You have chosen unwisely..." Oct 28 00:15:44 get more horsepower (ddr vs sdr, use a cortex arm and add the simd arm into the software gfx engines.... i need to do this actually) Oct 28 00:15:44 and OM is the nazi guy, who gets his face melted off :) Oct 28 00:15:54 hahahhahaa Oct 28 00:16:07 Sometimes I picture Sean as the Nazi guy there. Oct 28 00:16:14 :\ Oct 28 00:16:19 glamo had its merits Oct 28 00:16:21 it solved things Oct 28 00:16:25 True, true. Oct 28 00:16:31 but betwene a rock and a hard place it ended up a bad choice Oct 28 00:16:32 Though clearly your point is very well taken. Oct 28 00:16:34 and a time-sink Oct 28 00:16:39 no kidding :( Oct 28 00:16:53 peoelp are still fixing glamo issues (like power consumption, sdio performance and stability) Oct 28 00:17:02 not even worrying about the complicated stuff - like gfx accel Oct 28 00:17:02 geeze Oct 28 00:17:11 the basic core thigns are still getting fixes Oct 28 00:17:18 the problem was wifi Oct 28 00:17:24 without wifi u could have lived withotu glamo Oct 28 00:17:31 lack of a 2nd sdio line was the problem Oct 28 00:17:35 yeah, I remember :( Oct 28 00:17:42 of course a change of SCO would sovle that too to one with more sdio's Oct 28 00:17:45 :) Oct 28 00:18:01 aaaaanyway Oct 28 00:18:04 right Oct 28 00:18:05 water under the bridge Oct 28 00:18:11 enough daydreaming :) Oct 28 00:18:13 the solution partly for fr is to avoid scrolling Oct 28 00:18:18 haha Oct 28 00:18:19 or scroll very small bits of the screen Oct 28 00:18:22 I guess Oct 28 00:18:28 or better yet, swap screens Oct 28 00:18:34 as in screen-by-screen scrolling. Oct 28 00:18:41 or... don't use efl and dont have ambitions of a ui anything beyond bare basics Oct 28 00:18:43 it doesn't need to be really fancy, but rather functional! Oct 28 00:18:45 yeah :P Oct 28 00:20:29 yeah Oct 28 00:20:34 solution is "pagination" Oct 28 00:20:39 turn things into pages Oct 28 00:20:45 and then just flip next/prev page Oct 28 00:20:59 i'll add that to elementary sometime soon Oct 28 00:21:27 right Oct 28 00:21:32 Thanks :) Oct 28 00:29:29 raster: I want your monitor 1920x1200...drool... Oct 28 00:30:11 gurugentoo: thats actually just the main monitor Oct 28 00:30:25 my 2nd mon is 21" 1600x1200 Oct 28 00:30:35 i amout of dvi/vga out's Oct 28 00:30:38 only have 2 Oct 28 00:30:48 so i cant hook up the 1280x1024 i have in a cupboard Oct 28 00:31:01 but it is a nice screen Oct 28 00:31:04 but too low res Oct 28 00:31:09 a 30" is very tempting Oct 28 00:31:13 i need more pixels Oct 28 00:31:13 I only have a 1680x1050 and 1280x1024 Oct 28 00:31:31 <_charly_> hi :) Oct 28 00:31:36 and the backlight on the latter flickers Oct 28 00:31:45 sad day :/ Oct 28 00:31:48 3520x1200 worth of screen isnt enough Oct 28 00:31:59 really now... Oct 28 00:32:05 it isnt! Oct 28 00:32:12 haha Oct 28 00:32:34 where I used to work this doctor had dual 30" apple displays Oct 28 00:32:36 I told you he was crazy! Oct 28 00:32:46 and he wasn't even using them Oct 28 00:32:55 guru - most people don't :P Oct 28 00:33:03 I wanted so badly to steal one Oct 28 00:33:21 haha, yeah... he wouldn't miss it :P Oct 28 00:33:43 raster: you've been living too long in Japan, alt+tab still rules, hehe Oct 28 00:33:46 http://www.rasterman.com/files/desk-02.jpg Oct 28 00:33:47 see Oct 28 00:33:51 both screens full of stuff Oct 28 00:33:55 need more space Oct 28 00:34:27 cool case Oct 28 00:34:29 in Argentina CRT is still common :) Oct 28 00:34:40 fredrin: want mine? Oct 28 00:34:42 :D Oct 28 00:34:42 hehe Oct 28 00:34:55 i have toi say Oct 28 00:34:59 many of us need another table just for our CRT monitor :) Oct 28 00:35:02 dells' 27" i got is gorgeous Oct 28 00:35:11 the aluminium and shit black glass is sexy Oct 28 00:35:11 TFT? Oct 28 00:35:16 haha Oct 28 00:35:19 raster - whore :p Oct 28 00:35:20 yes Oct 28 00:35:34 its just "Sex on a stick" Oct 28 00:35:42 the 30" models just were not as sexy Oct 28 00:35:46 haha, I knew you were going to say that Oct 28 00:35:49 tho with more pixels Oct 28 00:35:50 :) Oct 28 00:35:53 I'll do fine with my laptop, don't like external monitors Oct 28 00:38:50 fed really? Oct 28 00:38:51 wow! Oct 28 00:39:07 i have spent too long starign at tiny laptop screens longn for a real mouse, keyboard and big screen Oct 28 00:39:14 for a while i was living on my laptop Oct 28 00:39:21 but then i just got fed up with it all Oct 28 00:40:37 well, certainly, for someone who travels often... Oct 28 00:40:51 You can't exactly take those sweet dells on the plane with you ;) Oct 28 00:42:04 no :( Oct 28 00:42:19 right Oct 28 00:43:07 they also are hard enough to cart around Oct 28 00:43:20 due to weight Oct 28 00:45:00 there is a big difference in weight between makers I've noticed, my BenQ is an easy one-hander Oct 28 00:47:01 brb Oct 28 00:47:52 raster - yeah Oct 28 00:48:11 that's one thing which impressed yet amused me about those larger dell displays Oct 28 00:48:14 though all of this makes sense Oct 28 00:48:24 is usually the stand can be equal or more than the actual display Oct 28 00:48:34 (though this can typically be explained by simple physics) :p Oct 28 00:50:59 raster showing off his rig? Oct 28 00:52:17 Kensan: my rack! :) Oct 28 00:52:46 Dave: yeah. need the stand to make sure the thing stays where its meant to be on the desk! Oct 28 00:52:53 hmmmm Oct 28 00:52:56 raster: heh that's a comment I expected from Dave. Oct 28 00:53:00 oe doesnt support many locales Oct 28 00:53:48 :) Oct 28 00:53:55 Kensan, yeah :) Oct 28 00:53:57 He stole my line. Oct 28 00:54:41 oh, did you guys read harald's blog post about nand? Oct 28 00:54:55 He says the 6410 has the same issue. Oct 28 00:55:04 bye bye gta03... Oct 28 00:55:06 how often is the E build broken? haven't tried it in a while Oct 28 00:56:51 that's quite sad. Oct 28 00:56:51 * _charly_ is just ordering an openmoko coffee mug :) Oct 28 00:57:05 http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2008/10/27/#20081027-nand_speed Oct 28 00:57:47 haha Oct 28 00:57:53 oh snap Oct 28 00:58:36 so IO is and is not the issue at the same time :( Oct 28 00:59:54 wtf? Oct 28 01:00:50 oh well time to get some sleep anyway Oct 28 01:03:15 Kensan: i'll give my samsung insiders a ping and see if there is a solution :) Oct 28 01:03:56 pinged Oct 28 01:04:05 lets see if they have a solution of their own Oct 28 01:04:14 i'll be getting a 6410 soon to toy with Oct 28 01:04:45 http://www.rasterman.com/files/desk-02.jpg <-- LOL. "Must need more info!" :) Oct 28 01:04:47 :\ Oct 28 01:06:31 How depressing, but not entirely surprising. Oct 28 01:07:29 parodyoflanguage: neeeedd moooooororee pixxxxeeellslszzzzz Oct 28 01:07:43 Dave: damsugn does have generic memory -> memory dma Oct 28 01:07:51 and dma for a bunch of things Oct 28 01:07:53 last i saw Oct 28 01:07:57 there must be a solution Oct 28 01:08:02 :\ Oct 28 01:08:18 raster: I think you're into "moar" territory now :) Oct 28 01:08:44 Wow. That's sucky. Oct 28 01:08:59 No kidding. Oct 28 01:09:18 Anyone here use thumb instructions/thumb interworking in their images? Oct 28 01:10:24 raster: ok, it's good to have people on the "inside" ;) Oct 28 01:10:53 bricode: there were some commits to openembedded lately... I forgot who it was, maybe Koen. Oct 28 01:10:55 bricode: hmm why use them? Oct 28 01:11:13 raster: are you getting an eval-board? Oct 28 01:11:13 i'm not sure there is a real benefit in reality if u wisht o handle multipel architectures Oct 28 01:11:21 raster: better code density. Oct 28 01:11:21 Kensan: no idea what i'll be getting Oct 28 01:11:30 but it'll invovle a 6410 Oct 28 01:11:31 :) Oct 28 01:11:36 bricode: not sure thats a big factor Oct 28 01:11:37 hah! Oct 28 01:11:42 not sure what impact that actually has on RAM usage. Oct 28 01:11:50 more coide density - sure, but less functionality per instruction too Oct 28 01:12:12 i am unsure it makes a big impact on devices with like 32,64 or 128m ram Oct 28 01:12:27 treo :) Oct 28 01:13:03 bricode: is it to help keep caches hot? Oct 28 01:13:09 It also impacts cache usage. Oct 28 01:13:16 Smaller code, more in cache Oct 28 01:13:34 More stuff in NAND. Oct 28 01:13:40 Not that 256 MB is small. Oct 28 01:13:45 Brinky: assuming uncompressed images Oct 28 01:13:51 raster: are you unsure or can you neither deny nor confirm that you are working on a super-secret new gadget? Oct 28 01:14:29 Kensan: i am unsure. u'll know whyen i have it in my hands Oct 28 01:14:35 covert new gang recruiting! Oct 28 01:14:36 but i know it'l lbe 6410 Oct 28 01:14:43 raster: hehe got it. Oct 28 01:14:47 sped sure. Oct 28 01:15:04 Neat. Oct 28 01:15:11 SpeedEvil: sure. indeed. though its only useful to us if its a compiler optimisation "ie use thumb instr if possible" Oct 28 01:15:16 i actually never looked at thumb stuff Oct 28 01:15:18 raster: it has hw-crypto which has caught my eye ;) Oct 28 01:15:21 ddo u need to go in a separate mode Oct 28 01:15:22 no '/' on 2007.2 keyboard? Oct 28 01:15:25 ie enter thumb mode? Oct 28 01:15:39 all i know is its a cut down instr set with shorter opcodes Oct 28 01:15:40 raster: of course. hand-optimisation is only rarely useful. Oct 28 01:15:47 or am i just not finding it? Oct 28 01:16:13 SpeedEvil: the only arm stuff i am interested in right now is cortex and the 128bit simd stuff.. thats worth some effort :) Oct 28 01:16:23 It seems like a lot of instructions have a thumb analog. Oct 28 01:16:24 raster: go pandora! Oct 28 01:16:31 use the other keyboard Oct 28 01:16:42 I mean, how many bits do you need to represent add r1, r2? Oct 28 01:16:49 haha Oct 28 01:17:33 Kensan: that will also be coming :) Oct 28 01:17:45 :D Oct 28 01:18:20 i only see one keyboard so far heh Oct 28 01:19:10 raster: also? hm now you got me curious Oct 28 01:20:35 bricode: do you think the optimisation will be big enough to have an impact on runtime performance? Oct 28 01:20:55 chi, matchbox? Oct 28 01:21:08 if you're using 2008, I think it's still used? Oct 28 01:21:15 i just opened the box Oct 28 01:21:20 completely default Oct 28 01:21:21 Ah! :D Oct 28 01:21:22 Kensan: Don't know. Haven't done a whole lot of reading on the impack that is has on runtime. Oct 28 01:21:23 bricode: ram/space does not seem to be an issue, plus with the info from harald's latest blog post it seems that io from/to nand is hogging the cpu... Oct 28 01:21:26 Then you're screwed :D Oct 28 01:21:29 it looks like 2007.2 i think Oct 28 01:21:34 woo Oct 28 01:21:37 All I know if you get ~40% greater code density (depending on the code type). Oct 28 01:21:39 at least there is no / in the multitap-pad in the terminal Oct 28 01:21:40 yeah Oct 28 01:21:51 unless you wish to use the workaround I came up with Oct 28 01:21:59 is there another option besides the mulititap? Oct 28 01:22:00 bricode: ah ic. It might be worth asking in #oe Oct 28 01:22:05 Kensan: Well, if you're b/w bound, wouldn't it be better to have a smaller code size? Oct 28 01:22:06 Dave, what is it? Oct 28 01:22:17 bricode: I saw some commits. Oct 28 01:22:25 open openmoko-browser2 (the web browser), then use 0 to get a / then switch back to openmoko-terminal2 then hit paste :P Oct 28 01:22:34 bricode: yeah, that was a silly statement. Oct 28 01:22:37 haha, it's definitely annoying, hence I'd suggest updating to something more usable :) Oct 28 01:22:46 And yes, it is certainly 2007.2 :) Oct 28 01:22:49 Dave: wow hadn't thought of that Oct 28 01:22:56 no browser on it either =P Oct 28 01:23:10 Dave, i will as soon as i can ssh in Oct 28 01:23:16 was hopeing i could just use the wifi Oct 28 01:23:28 bricode: for GTA02 it means no IO at all not because IO is slow but because CPU will be at 100% :( Oct 28 01:23:29 looks like i will have to use the usb after all =P Oct 28 01:23:31 guru, that's what I did, before I installed matchbox :P Oct 28 01:23:37 chi, yeah there is Oct 28 01:23:43 go to the Applications menu Oct 28 01:23:55 Dave: I just flashed 2008.8 immediately Oct 28 01:24:00 Dave, you mean the + right? Oct 28 01:24:02 gurugentoo, perhaps a good idea :P Oct 28 01:24:05 Chi, yes :) Oct 28 01:24:19 scroll down, it should be at the bottom Oct 28 01:24:27 guru, how much sanity did that save you? Oct 28 01:24:29 Kensan: But CPU is maxed because it is doing I/O. Oct 28 01:24:29 In the end? :D Oct 28 01:24:30 there are only 5 items contacts,dialer,messages,take screenshot, and terminal Oct 28 01:24:43 chi, change the filter at the top to 'Applications' Oct 28 01:24:46 instead of PIM Oct 28 01:25:03 Kensan: i have a pandora on order Oct 28 01:25:07 i got in before the rush Oct 28 01:25:14 and the 6410 thing is a separate matter Oct 28 01:25:17 both are gl-es2.0 Oct 28 01:25:19 bricode: yeah, that's what I was trying to say. Oct 28 01:25:19 hot shit Oct 28 01:25:23 :) Oct 28 01:25:24 and both will have working libs Oct 28 01:25:29 raster, hahaha Oct 28 01:25:36 Are you going to install illume on it? Oct 28 01:25:41 bricode: it seems that pb is doing thumb work judging by the commit messages. Oct 28 01:25:44 maybe it doesn't work becuse i don't have a sim in it yet? it just says registering at the top heh Oct 28 01:25:53 That's independent Oct 28 01:25:53 bricode: he lurkes around here and oe. Oct 28 01:26:05 Kensan: Cool. Oct 28 01:26:07 raster: I have on on order too Oct 28 01:26:28 Chi - it's fun to fuck around with for the first five minutes or so, but soon you should really update to something more usable :) Oct 28 01:26:40 that is my plan Dave =P Oct 28 01:26:43 so maybe first find out how crippled it really is, then update and get a little relief :P Oct 28 01:26:46 :D Oct 28 01:26:46 Dave: of coruse i am Oct 28 01:26:52 hah, excellent Oct 28 01:26:54 i got the panny to have a "high end soc" dev platform Oct 28 01:26:58 Raster, a worth addition to the gang :) Oct 28 01:27:04 somethnig with gl-es i can toy with Oct 28 01:27:11 worthy Oct 28 01:27:17 since i ordered it another thnig cam on my plate with the 6410 Oct 28 01:27:19 Raster, let me know how it turns out. Oct 28 01:27:21 which is also gles Oct 28 01:27:31 and give or take similar to the omap 35xx Oct 28 01:27:33 will not having a sim cause issues during a flash? Oct 28 01:27:35 yeah Oct 28 01:27:40 tho omap has the edge for being cortex Oct 28 01:27:43 chi - no Oct 28 01:27:56 raster: "I got the panny" ? Oct 28 01:27:57 omap yay Oct 28 01:28:00 Pandora Oct 28 01:28:03 could somebody translate? Oct 28 01:28:09 I HAVE TRANSLATED Oct 28 01:28:17 Kensan: "i got the pandora" Oct 28 01:28:29 * Kensan bangs head on table Oct 28 01:28:32 :p Oct 28 01:28:34 heehee Oct 28 01:28:35 i just call it panny Oct 28 01:28:41 like i call enlightenment e Oct 28 01:28:43 less typing Oct 28 01:28:43 :) Oct 28 01:29:14 Best line from worst movie:"No more drugs for that man". Oct 28 01:29:23 I should be heading for bed. Oct 28 01:29:30 * Kensan ponders other excuses Oct 28 01:29:45 * Dave rolls his eyes Oct 28 01:29:53 woot Oct 28 01:29:56 ok Oct 28 01:29:59 * Dave sends Kensan SIGTRANQ Oct 28 01:30:27 raster: no wonder CPU is always at 100% in all those bootcharts. Oct 28 01:30:51 gta02 refleashed with updated image Oct 28 01:30:53 now treo Oct 28 01:30:58 Hooray! Oct 28 01:31:12 raster: did you redo the patches etc? Oct 28 01:31:15 less typing = fewer typos Oct 28 01:31:18 raster: cortex is fun. /me is trying to get stuff ready for sale with it Oct 28 01:31:21 :D Oct 28 01:31:23 Kensan: no - i only updates to major efl/e changes in svn Oct 28 01:31:28 eg no more illume packages at all Oct 28 01:31:41 raster: right. Just so I know if I have to rebase patches. Oct 28 01:31:47 SpeedEvil: oh really? for who? Oct 28 01:31:53 SpeedEvil: and on paper it loosk good Oct 28 01:32:00 raster: me Oct 28 01:32:01 the arm11 simd stuf was too weak imho Oct 28 01:32:04 it was a lame attempt Oct 28 01:32:12 SpeedEvil: sale of what? Oct 28 01:32:17 raster: I'm trying to sell a number of things based on one design on ebay. Oct 28 01:32:24 aaah Oct 28 01:32:35 whats your base omap board? Oct 28 01:32:37 beagle? Oct 28 01:32:52 hey hey hey Oct 28 01:32:55 raster: no - little board probably 2*2cm. Oct 28 01:32:59 raster: custom Oct 28 01:33:08 SpeedEvil: ooh u did the design yourself? Oct 28 01:33:21 raster: in the process of finalising it ATM. PMU problems. Oct 28 01:33:32 SpeedEvil: oh cool! Oct 28 01:33:42 is it open? :) Oct 28 01:33:45 raster: I want to be flexible enough not to just have a 3.3V rail for everything. Oct 28 01:33:51 raster: no - I want to sell it. Oct 28 01:34:02 hahaha Oct 28 01:34:04 fair enough Oct 28 01:34:12 open imho si good enough in software land Oct 28 01:34:45 jadams! Oct 28 01:35:04 hey hey dave Oct 28 01:35:11 how's it going? Oct 28 01:35:15 Hey Doctor Nick! Oct 28 01:35:19 Eh, slowly :) Oct 28 01:35:32 freerunner is slow, ironically :P Oct 28 01:35:36 performance-wise Oct 28 01:35:47 I installed an ssh client on my android phone today, used vim remotely on it Oct 28 01:35:52 raster: yeah - teh board is simple enough that it could be cloned 'easily' - the hard part is the initial design and compromises. Oct 28 01:35:56 SpeedEvil: does it have gsm? :) Oct 28 01:35:56 that's all I was ever looking for Oct 28 01:36:13 phone + ssh in one package with a workable keyboard Oct 28 01:36:24 SpeedEvil: or is it really bare - like just a board - no lcd, no peripherals beyond what omap alreayd has? Oct 28 01:36:28 raster: yes - in a very limited way - in that one of the products I have is intended to have a GSM module - but it's not a phone. Oct 28 01:36:44 now if someone's app goes down while I'm at dinner, I can calmly fix it from the table....finally. Oct 28 01:36:44 raster: just a board pretty much - and not OMAP - STM32 Oct 28 01:36:46 SpeedEvil: not.. yet! Oct 28 01:36:49 :) Oct 28 01:37:13 :p Oct 28 01:37:14 jadams: 20K RAM - not likely to be putting ssh in it. Oct 28 01:37:15 raster, anything new and exciting happen in the last week? Oct 28 01:38:06 I just want a beagleboard in an enclosure with an LCD and a battery now :) Oct 28 01:38:19 give me tiny commodity hardware running linux, sirs! Oct 28 01:38:21 jadams: tincantools.com - Oct 28 01:38:34 jadams: DIP40 FTW Oct 28 01:39:13 jadams: hmmm... umm... well e has been cleaned up a lot Oct 28 01:39:20 it now offers illume out of the box Oct 28 01:39:23 not as an addon module Oct 28 01:39:31 as well as all the setup stuff to make it easy Oct 28 01:39:40 coolio Oct 28 01:40:05 :p Oct 28 01:41:05 Is there any BT camera support in anything linux? Oct 28 01:41:11 I've not found anything. Oct 28 01:41:41 SpeedEvil: no idea Oct 28 01:45:33 woot e updated, compiled back in a bit hehe Oct 28 01:52:04 quite a bit has changed with e Oct 28 01:52:27 I might actually use it now Oct 28 01:56:08 yeah Oct 28 01:56:15 like u get a startup wizard Oct 28 01:56:25 if u rm -rf'd ~/.e/ Oct 28 01:56:27 if u had an old one Oct 28 01:56:48 ya, I did...it was really narrow, was that intentional? Oct 28 01:56:55 yeah Oct 28 01:57:00 i liked the style that way Oct 28 01:57:04 looked odd Oct 28 01:57:04 it doesnt need to be wide Oct 28 01:57:08 it just has a list of stuff Oct 28 01:57:13 true Oct 28 01:57:52 I'm impressed with the speed of things Oct 28 01:58:17 i'd be shoked if u were not Oct 28 01:58:21 shocked Oct 28 01:58:22 hehe Oct 28 01:58:34 a mountain of effort has been spent in the efficiency department Oct 28 01:58:42 tungin memory usage and speed Oct 28 01:58:52 and just designing for it from the ground-up Oct 28 01:59:03 but not compromising features/capabilities Oct 28 01:59:06 yes Oct 28 01:59:13 fluxbox may be a little leaner Oct 28 02:03:40 but it also has a fraction of the features Oct 28 02:03:40 YES Oct 28 02:04:06 e's mem footprint is about 3.5m on startup Oct 28 02:04:09 varieus of coruse as u do thnigs Oct 28 02:04:23 4-5m when u have filemanager open and viewing lots fo dirs/menus Oct 28 02:24:36 where is the system tray in E? Oct 28 02:24:45 is there one? Oct 28 02:25:22 none Oct 28 02:25:25 dont suport it Oct 28 02:25:38 systray standard is bad Oct 28 02:26:08 yay skype Oct 28 02:26:32 thought that might be the case Oct 28 02:27:43 i wont go itno details Oct 28 02:27:45 i have many times Oct 28 02:27:54 no need Oct 28 02:42:37 skype on the neo? Oct 28 02:42:39 =o Oct 28 02:43:46 no no, talking about desktop Oct 28 02:44:03 oh Oct 28 02:44:06 I kinda would like skype though Oct 28 02:44:19 I paid the $30 for a year Oct 28 02:44:54 I've been looking around for sip->skype gateways and such Oct 28 02:45:14 I should probably just find a pure sip option Oct 28 02:49:17 :D Oct 28 02:49:37 guru - yes **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Oct 28 02:59:57 2008