**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 01 02:59:57 2008
Nov 01 05:48:50 <dns53> so any idea when 2008.10 or 2008.11 will be out?
Nov 01 05:51:31 <guruwho> i think people are partaking in halloween
Nov 01 06:00:20 * SpeedEvil burns a witch.
Nov 01 07:36:31 <guruwho> I really like the new qtopia, totally usable
Nov 01 07:37:55 <dns53> they released 4.2.2?
Nov 01 07:38:20 <emacsian> 4.4.2
Nov 01 07:38:56 <emacsian> can anyone point me to the release notes for 4.4.2 ?
Nov 01 07:40:57 <guruwho> http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=6 images
Nov 01 07:41:01 * Kamping_Kaiser has *lost* an FR :( *is stumped*
Nov 01 07:41:18 <guruwho>  call it?
Nov 01 07:42:18 <guruwho> http://doc.trolltech.com/qtextended4.4/release-4-4-2.html release notes
Nov 01 07:42:42 <emacsian> thanks
Nov 01 07:44:49 <guruwho> handwriting recognition is interesting...did 4.4.1 have that?
Nov 01 07:45:32 <emacsian> yeah it did have
Nov 01 07:45:49 <emacsian> i remember trying it out in 4.3.x
Nov 01 07:45:58 <emacsian> don't remember in 4.4.1 though
Nov 01 07:46:21 <guruwho> ok, I had only briefly tried qtopia until today
Nov 01 07:48:48 <Kamping_Kaiser> guruwho, its not got a sim in it. *shrug* hopefully its under a pile of paperwork
Nov 01 07:50:37 <guruwho> alarm doesn't work while suspended...how useful
Nov 01 08:01:29 <sakkara> is the bug of audio not working after suspend fixed in 4.4.2?
Nov 01 08:08:05 <guruwho> ooo I just crashed 4.4.2
Nov 01 08:08:14 <guruwho> ouch
Nov 01 08:37:55 <leinir> guruwho: Alarom not working while suspended is a kernel bug
Nov 01 08:38:02 <leinir> sakkara: as is sound not working after suspend
Nov 01 08:38:14 <leinir> (are you seeing a common thread there? ;) )
Nov 01 08:44:06 <sakkara> leinir: when my fr is in suspend, and someone calls me, it wakes up (a bit late, but thats not the pint) and i dont hear anything, the caller says
Nov 01 08:44:58 <sakkara> if i boot and never suspend it, calls work perfectly
Nov 01 08:45:14 <sakkara> (on qt 4.4.1)
Nov 01 10:11:40 <gruts> Hi, does the FreeRunner support dual sim?
Nov 01 10:13:02 <PBeck> ahoi
Nov 01 10:28:14 <[Rui]> what's up with the contact list? it's PAINFULLY SLOW on 2008.9!
Nov 01 10:45:56 <paulproteus> gruts, No, only one SIM slot.
Nov 01 10:53:13 <gruts> paulproteus, SO what about http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Dual_SIM ? Only for Neo 1973?
Nov 01 10:53:52 <paulproteus> gruts, That's fine if you want to use an adapter.
Nov 01 10:54:43 <gruts> paulproteus, But I then have to switch between the two sim cards and nobody can call me on number A, when sim B is active, right?
Nov 01 10:55:10 <paulproteus> Right.
Nov 01 10:56:58 <gruts> paulproteus, Thats not cool. Is something planned to get dual sim support in later versions?
Nov 01 10:58:15 <paulproteus> Not that I have heard of, but the plans are still private.
Nov 01 11:06:24 <gruts> paulproteus, Ok, thanks nevertheless
Nov 01 11:29:09 <sylar> hi, any news about the release of om 2008.10 / FSO4?
Nov 01 11:31:24 <[Rui]> haven't heard anything, sorry...
Nov 01 11:31:57 <sylar> no problem
Nov 01 12:52:04 <pd> hello
Nov 01 12:52:24 <pd> how can i change icons in shortcut on asu?
Nov 01 12:52:27 <pd> anybody know?
Nov 01 12:53:00 <dns53> they use standard .desktop files
Nov 01 12:53:49 <pd> yep there are directive icon= but what shall i write here to get my own icon in shortcut
Nov 01 12:55:14 <dns53> i would try the name of the icon and put your icon in the standard directory
Nov 01 12:55:43 <pd> what is standard dir ? home dir?
Nov 01 12:57:33 <pd> it works :)
Nov 01 12:57:36 <pd> thx
Nov 01 12:57:43 <slalomsk8er> Hallo - I am a new neo user so if I missed some thing a pointer would be great. but now to the problem: is dfu-util broken on 64Bit? it works on my 32bit notebook but not on my 64bit desktop :(
Nov 01 12:58:44 <lindi-> slalomsk8er: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=dfu-util;dist=unstable does not list any bugs
Nov 01 12:58:54 <dns53> slalomsk8er i think i've run it on a 64 bit distro in 32 bit mode, are you asking about a 64 bit binary?
Nov 01 12:59:09 <slalomsk8er> oh the error is -110 after some seconds 
Nov 01 12:59:28 <slalomsk8er> yes I am on a 64bit system
Nov 01 13:00:06 <lindi-> slalomsk8er: please report this to your distro
Nov 01 13:00:46 <slalomsk8er> gentoo is not to frendly if you report svn source packages ;)
Nov 01 13:01:54 <dns53> well if you have the 32 bit glibc it might run the 32 bit binary
Nov 01 13:01:55 <j4p13j0> I have dfu-util running well on 64bit ... using a .deb , on ubuntu
Nov 01 13:01:57 <lindi-> slalomsk8er: gentoo does not have ebuild for dfu-util?
Nov 01 13:02:47 <slalomsk8er> it has but it is masked with ** so no support I guess - it is a wonder that it is in the official repos at all I guess
Nov 01 13:04:09 <slalomsk8er> what was the name of the tool that outputs the type of a executable?
Nov 01 13:05:04 <j4p13j0> slalomsk8ter: file
Nov 01 13:06:26 <j4p13j0> file `which dfu-util` : /usr/bin/dfu-util: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.8, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped
Nov 01 13:06:38 <slalomsk8er> file it was : /usr/bin/dfu-util: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.9, stripped
Nov 01 13:07:23 <j4p13j0> can you install a .dep ?
Nov 01 13:08:15 <slalomsk8er> don't know never did this
Nov 01 13:08:59 <slalomsk8er> does a 64bit executable has a chance to run with out installation?
Nov 01 13:09:25 <j4p13j0> Sure, if library versions match
Nov 01 13:09:38 <slalomsk8er> I will give it a try then
Nov 01 13:10:09 <lindi-> i thought gentoo users would never run anything they can't compile :)
Nov 01 13:10:10 <j4p13j0> I used http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/d/dfu-util/dfu-util_0.0+r4067-3.1_amd64.deb
Nov 01 13:10:29 <j4p13j0> lindi: lol !
Nov 01 13:10:39 <slalomsk8er> I never compile my openoffice ;)
Nov 01 13:11:11 <d-b> slalomsk8er: dam why not ?
Nov 01 13:11:15 <pd> who know how to run java app on OM?
Nov 01 13:11:26 <pd> from shortcut not command line
Nov 01 13:11:38 <lindi-> pd: just like on your pc
Nov 01 13:12:12 <slalomsk8er> d-b: you need about 10Gb and a day to compile it =-O
Nov 01 13:12:25 <lindi-> "sudo apt-get install freecol" and then "freecol" to play a java game :)
Nov 01 13:12:34 <pd> lindi-: when i try execute 'cacao path_to_class' from shortcut it ends with error
Nov 01 13:12:35 <d-b> only ?
Nov 01 13:12:42 <d-b> its so worth it rofl.
Nov 01 13:12:51 <lindi-> pd: cacao does not take filename as argument
Nov 01 13:12:58 <lindi-> pd: it takes name of class
Nov 01 13:13:16 <lindi-> just like all java virtual machines
Nov 01 13:13:27 <pd> yes i know but when i exec the same command from terminal (xterm) it works
Nov 01 13:13:38 <slalomsk8er> d-b: what's the gain?
Nov 01 13:13:46 <pd> cacao om_note (withount .class)
Nov 01 13:13:49 <pd> it works
Nov 01 13:13:58 <lindi-> pd: what shortcut are you talking about?
Nov 01 13:14:12 <d-b> slalomsk8er: nothing actually. i would prefer go-ooo over the origianl
Nov 01 13:14:15 <d-b> original*
Nov 01 13:14:21 <pd> standard .desktop file in /usr/share/applications
Nov 01 13:14:35 <lindi-> pd: well, use strace to figure out how these two cases differ
Nov 01 13:14:45 <lindi-> or just compare output of "env" in both cases
Nov 01 13:15:13 <pd> lindi-: could you describe how to use strace
Nov 01 13:15:38 <slalomsk8er> d-b: never tried this one. what's there goal?
Nov 01 13:15:50 <d-b> their ?
Nov 01 13:16:21 <slalomsk8er> d-b: the goal of the go-ooo project
Nov 01 13:17:10 <d-b> don't be slow be fast... be better than sun.
Nov 01 13:17:24 <d-b> lgpl
Nov 01 13:17:43 <d-b> not controlled by sun.
Nov 01 13:17:55 <slalomsk8er> d-b: nice, I will give it a try
Nov 01 13:18:42 <lindi-> pd: strace -o strace.out -s4096 -f cacao Class
Nov 01 13:46:48 <CIA-50> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rbd9c8dd04440 10/packages/libxml/ (2 files in 2 dirs): libxml2-native: Compile on Ubuntu Intrepid with fortify source
Nov 01 13:46:49 <CIA-50> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r1b27bd812b4c 10/packages/classpath/ (3 files in 2 dirs): classpath-initial/classpath-native: Make 0.93 compile with the fortified gcc
Nov 01 13:46:49 <CIA-50> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r107e54253c42 10/packages/opkg/ (files/compile-with-gcc-fortify-source.patch opkg.inc): opkg: Compile with fortify enabled gcc
Nov 01 14:03:28 <nyu> slalomsk8er: yeah, controlled by novell instead of sun.  they give priority to OOXML, win32 support, etc
Nov 01 14:03:40 <nyu> d-b: ^
Nov 01 14:04:08 <nyu> (both are lgplv3 afaik)
Nov 01 14:04:57 <Ke> still seeing the registration form on ooffice made me want to bomb Novell/Sun
Nov 01 14:05:31 <Ke> we have free software so we could actually ignore this crap
Nov 01 14:06:07 <nyu> it could be worse, some free sw projects actually implement DRM (in PDF)
Nov 01 14:06:29 <nyu> that reminds me I wanted to check if OOo does, now that it can read PDF files
Nov 01 14:06:29 <Ke> well that is just silly
Nov 01 14:06:47 <tomboy64> i don't think so
Nov 01 14:06:58 <tomboy64> lots of academics want to protect their pdf-works
Nov 01 14:07:06 <Ke> btw how can I read pdf files, now that I have ooo-3
Nov 01 14:07:17 <nyu> you call a "please don't let user print" bit "protection" ?
Nov 01 14:07:23 <Ke> oowriter file.pdf just doesn't work
Nov 01 14:07:37 <nyu> looks like a joke to me.  even if the program won't let me, I can change the source code
Nov 01 14:07:38 <tomboy64> nyu: nah
Nov 01 14:07:44 <tomboy64> nyu: ridiculous
Nov 01 14:08:04 <nyu> Ke: only in v3
Nov 01 14:08:24 <mjr> lots of academics are out of their minds
Nov 01 14:08:33 <nyu> to the date, I think debian stripped off DRM from kpdf and xpdf
Nov 01 14:08:49 <Ke> nyu: heh we don't have printer qoutas at the uni so some lecturers refuse to publish study materials in electronic form to prevent abusive printing
Nov 01 14:08:54 <nyu> and maintains a misleading DRM API in libpoppler
Nov 01 14:09:09 <nyu> Ke: lol
Nov 01 14:09:21 <Ke> nyu: kpdf has an option for "obey DRM limitations"
Nov 01 14:09:29 <nyu> Ke: sounds like they're begging you to game their system
Nov 01 14:09:33 <Ke> nyu: I don't think it's that bad
Nov 01 14:09:43 <nyu> Ke: it was a build option IIRC?
Nov 01 14:09:44 <Ke> game?
Nov 01 14:10:00 <Ke> nyu: no, runtime
Nov 01 14:10:01 <nyu> Ke: by printing their study materials =)
Nov 01 14:10:09 <mjr> Ke, sounds like climbing up a tree ass-backwards
Nov 01 14:10:12 <nyu> Ke: that's even sillier
Nov 01 14:10:15 <Ke> nyu: as I said, I have openoffice-3
Nov 01 14:10:35 <nyu> Ke: it's like a "[ ] Make the program work slower" checkbox
Nov 01 14:10:48 <Ke> well partially true
Nov 01 14:10:57 <nyu> Ke: I was able to open some PDFs with it
Nov 01 14:11:02 <mjr> Except slower can be useful sometimes.
Nov 01 14:11:10 <nyu> bad example then
Nov 01 14:11:50 <nyu> "[ ] Make the program sodomize me at random"
Nov 01 14:12:20 <mjr> arguably, that'd be useful too
Nov 01 14:12:26 <nyu> heh
Nov 01 14:12:28 <tomboy64> o.O
Nov 01 14:12:41 <nyu> mjr: disable all buttons? ;-)
Nov 01 14:12:41 * tomboy64 hands nyu some lubricant
Nov 01 14:13:35 <nyu> well, that's only the silly part;  the pointless one is that they're supposed to be enforcing a security policy that can be disabled at will
Nov 01 14:14:03 <Ke> nyu: still some people want to obey those limitations
Nov 01 14:14:04 <nyu> it's more like a login manager with a "Don't require a password" checkbox
Nov 01 14:14:06 <tomboy64> not really
Nov 01 14:14:20 <nyu> Ke: sure, but then they're not limitations, they're requests
Nov 01 14:14:27 <tomboy64> nyu: they give people the opportunity to obey the law
Nov 01 14:14:31 <Ke> nyu: it's like program telling you nicely, that athor thinks you should not be doing this
Nov 01 14:14:41 <tomboy64> if you don't that might affect your job - if you get caught
Nov 01 14:14:41 <nyu> tomboy64: erm, printing a document is fair use
Nov 01 14:14:54 <d-b> nyu: yeah i like it better
Nov 01 14:15:01 <tomboy64> especially if working with nda-agreements
Nov 01 14:15:05 <Ke> afaik pdf-DRM can also prevent copy-paste
Nov 01 14:15:09 <nyu> it's perfectly legal.  now whether you find it moraly suitable to do it against the will of the author, that's a different question
Nov 01 14:15:32 <tomboy64> nyu: not if you signed an nda-agreement
Nov 01 14:16:31 <nyu> tomboy64: right.  and I might have signed an agreement saying my desktop background can't be blue.  should me desktop env add a restriction to prevent me from setting it to blue?
Nov 01 14:17:10 <nyu> tomboy64: now if this is a _common_ NDA (which I doubt), it may make sense to _warn_ the user about it
Nov 01 14:17:44 <nyu> but telling the user they can't do it is like trying to rob a bank by pointing your finger
Nov 01 14:18:03 <tomboy64> i'm talking bout intellectual property here
Nov 01 14:18:12 <nyu> you mean patents?
Nov 01 14:18:34 <tomboy64> lol
Nov 01 14:18:35 <nyu> copyright law doesn't restrict printing a document
Nov 01 14:18:41 <nyu> trademark law is out of scope
Nov 01 14:18:59 <Ke> nyu: laws are different around the world
Nov 01 14:19:10 <tomboy64> well, look at the documents openmoko received for the glamo chip
Nov 01 14:19:12 <mjr> nyu, that's actually iffy in many jurisdictions nowadays; printing is making a copy, and if you have to circumvent drm to do that, it may well be illegal, depending on your local laws
Nov 01 14:19:14 <nyu> but if "intellectual property" also includes self-appointed privileges (i.e. implemented by technical means rather than legal), then I get what you mean
Nov 01 14:19:16 <tomboy64> they can't distribute them
Nov 01 14:19:17 <mjr> of course, that's insanity, but whatever
Nov 01 14:19:20 <tomboy64> nda
Nov 01 14:19:28 <tomboy64> a perfectly legal reason not to print stuff
Nov 01 14:19:29 <nyu> mjr: making a copy is fair use
Nov 01 14:19:38 <nyu> mjr: distributing it, maybe wouldn't
Nov 01 14:20:03 <tomboy64> making a copy is not fair use if it is considered to be used for distribution
Nov 01 14:20:16 <nyu> tomboy64: what has that to do with DRM bits?  they couldn't distribute them with or without DRM
Nov 01 14:20:25 <mjr> nyu, "fair use" is a term spesific to some local legislations which may or may not apply here, I don't give a shit
Nov 01 14:20:37 <nyu> right.  and DRM tries to make it global policy
Nov 01 14:20:53 <nyu> I know well enough what is and what isn't legal for me to do
Nov 01 14:20:59 <nyu> don't need a program to teach me
Nov 01 14:21:45 <nyu> (the funny thing is that legislators tend to regulate based on existing practice, so they may end up changing law to adapt to this new trend)
Nov 01 14:25:33 <nyu> I think I'll check OOo 3 now ;-)
Nov 01 14:29:46 <F4t> hey all, is there an easy way to backup the SD card? in case something bad happens i could just restore the sd card and all would work again.... ?
Nov 01 14:31:39 <Flyser_> F4t: do you have access to an uSD card reader?
Nov 01 14:32:29 <F4t> i have SD card reader built into my laptop, and i should have somewhere the micro-SD to SD card...
Nov 01 14:32:51 <F4t> laptop is running windows though..
Nov 01 14:32:54 <Flyser_> F4t: then you can just copy all data to the hard drive of your laptop
Nov 01 14:33:21 <F4t> I think windows has problems with SD cards having multiple partitions...
Nov 01 14:34:12 <Flyser_> uhm, so go and get linux :)
Nov 01 14:34:53 <muxe> buy yourself linux ;)
Nov 01 14:35:29 <nyu> windows has problems with everything =)
Nov 01 14:35:37 <F4t> lol,i figured some solution like that would come up... 
Nov 01 14:35:45 * nyu points at http://goodbye-microsoft.com/
Nov 01 14:36:23 * F4t points at diablo3,fallout3,crysis:warhead, and some more name that would put fear in cedega
Nov 01 14:36:32 <F4t> names*
Nov 01 14:37:09 <nyu> but you have wesnoth =)
Nov 01 14:37:27 <nyu> anyway, dual-boot is an option too.  just so you can backup your SD
Nov 01 14:37:32 <hiciu> F4t: ssh root@fr 'tar c /media/mmcblk0p2' | gzip > sdcard.backup.tar.gz
Nov 01 14:37:40 <lindi-> F4t: cedega is proprietary too
Nov 01 14:37:42 <nyu> or cygwin
Nov 01 14:38:00 <nyu> isn't cedega lagging behind wine nowadays? :-p
Nov 01 14:38:09 <F4t> hiciu, this sounds like a good solution... can i mount mmcblk0p2 if im running from it?
Nov 01 14:38:26 <hiciu> no, you can't
Nov 01 14:39:08 <nyu> for runtime backups I recommend rsync
Nov 01 14:39:09 <F4t> bah, does qtopia mess with the sd card if i have 2 partitions on it?
Nov 01 14:39:22 <nyu> (with the right --exclude args)
Nov 01 14:39:56 <hiciu> F4t: it will work under qtopia
Nov 01 14:39:57 <kd8ikt> dev proc sys
Nov 01 14:40:32 <F4t> hiciu, i remmeber something about qtopia constantly accesing sd card, and trying to mount it even though it has 2 partitions....
Nov 01 14:41:04 <hiciu> F4t: ssh '/etc/init.d/qpe stop; tar ...
Nov 01 14:41:29 <F4t> ok thanks.
Nov 01 14:43:59 <nyu> kd8ikt: I also exclude /tmp, /media, /mnt, /lib/init/rw and some parts of /var :-)
Nov 01 15:00:27 <slalomsk8er> sorry that it took so long - the deial 64bit version of dfu-util has the same problem http://pastebin.com/d1810536c reconnecting the neo helps to get e meaningful dfu-util -l again
Nov 01 15:00:53 <slalomsk8er> s/deial/debian/s
Nov 01 15:00:59 <slalomsk8er> g
Nov 01 15:13:10 <nyu> slalomsk8er: dfu-util worked fine for me on amd64.  which version are you using?
Nov 01 15:28:07 <slalomsk8er> nyu: I used the svn version from yesterday and this one http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/d/dfu-util/dfu-util_0.0+r4067-3.1_amd64.deb
Nov 01 15:31:32 <nyu> slalomsk8er: 0.0+r4067-3.1 worked for me
Nov 01 15:33:06 <slalomsk8er> nyu: maybe it is the kernel or the libs then. what are the versions you use?
Nov 01 15:33:25 <nyu> slalomsk8er: I used sid
Nov 01 15:33:31 <nyu> not long ago
Nov 01 15:33:44 <nyu> I guess 2/3 weeks last time
Nov 01 15:34:28 <slalomsk8er> what reports your uname as kernel version?
Nov 01 15:35:10 <nyu> slalomsk8er: 2.6.18 (etch)
Nov 01 15:35:25 <nyu> (I run dfu-util in a sid chroot)
Nov 01 15:36:23 <slalomsk8er> I have here a 2.6.27 kernel may be this is a bit to new but in 32bit on the notebook it works
Nov 01 15:38:31 <nyu> slalomsk8er: it's easy to find out :-)
Nov 01 15:41:53 <Dave> nyu
Nov 01 15:44:50 <slalomsk8er> nyu: do you know a dev of dfu-util? 
Nov 01 15:45:43 <nyu> slalomsk8er: uwe_
Nov 01 15:45:51 <nyu> in freenode.  he's logged in right now
Nov 01 15:46:14 <nyu> uhm actually, he maintains the debian package.  not sure how involved in upstream
Nov 01 15:46:43 <slalomsk8er> thx
Nov 01 15:56:09 <slalomsk8er> does someone know how to disable the word guessing funktion in 2008.9 - it is impossible to enter a wifi password with this
Nov 01 15:56:47 <leinir> slalomsk8er: tap and hold to type specific characters
Nov 01 15:57:15 <slalomsk8er> thx
Nov 01 15:58:53 <yabo> Hello
Nov 01 15:59:12 <yabo> i am looking for a way to watch youtube-videos on my freerunner (debian)
Nov 01 15:59:14 <yabo> any ideas?
Nov 01 15:59:36 <lindi-> yabo: youtube-dl + mplayer
Nov 01 16:00:12 <yabo> well
Nov 01 16:00:23 <yabo> i only have 6MB of space left on my sdcard
Nov 01 16:00:35 <yabo> how does one clean up to free some space?
Nov 01 16:00:58 <yabo> its a pretty fresh debian-install, i installed Links2 and Midori
Nov 01 16:01:07 <yabo> on a 512MB card
Nov 01 16:01:15 <F4t> buy a bigger sd card? :)
Nov 01 16:01:39 <yabo> hehe..
Nov 01 16:01:50 <yabo> well i want to watch now :-R
Nov 01 16:07:11 <bipak_> is there some kernel with wifi module now?
Nov 01 16:07:48 <F4t> yabo: you could try to mvoe the debian to the flash memory...
Nov 01 16:07:52 <F4t> would free up the sd card
Nov 01 16:08:03 <lindi-> yabo: buy 2G card
Nov 01 16:08:21 <mwester> bipak_:  wifi won't build as a module.
Nov 01 16:08:30 <lindi-> mwester: which is horrible :(
Nov 01 16:08:33 <bipak_> :(
Nov 01 16:08:42 <bipak_> still no chance?
Nov 01 16:08:42 <pooze> how do I do 'opkg upgrade' without restarting dropbear?
Nov 01 16:09:25 <pooze> I'm kind of in the middle of an upgrade, where the system on the phone is unusable, and opkg upgrade keeps doing the same stuff until the ssh connection is killed by a drop-bear restart
Nov 01 16:09:30 <mwester> bipak_:  not until the kernel devs get the horrors created by atheros fixed up, and that won't be for a while (and certainly won't be on the current 2.6.24 kernel).
Nov 01 16:09:43 <yabo> F4t, is flash big enough for that?
Nov 01 16:09:52 <bipak_> mwester: ok, thanks
Nov 01 16:10:09 <F4t> yabo, reading the wiki i think it is, sec, ill link you
Nov 01 16:11:01 <F4t> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianOnFreeRunner/MovingToFlash
Nov 01 16:11:20 <F4t> good luck
Nov 01 16:12:12 <pooze> ah... never mine... ssh to the phone, then
Nov 01 16:12:12 <pooze> $ DISPLAY=:0.0 openmoko-terminal2 &
Nov 01 16:12:12 <pooze> and I can disconnect the ssh-connection while still having access to a terminal.
Nov 01 16:12:21 <pooze> couldn't start the terminal in the normal way from the phone interface.
Nov 01 16:15:12 <mickey|zzZZzz> hmm
Nov 01 16:15:18 <mickey|zzZZzz> i guess i will rename openmoko-terminal2
Nov 01 16:15:24 <mickey|zzZZzz> there's nothing openmoko-specific in it
Nov 01 16:20:07 <slalomsk8er> is it possible to join a WPA encrypted WLAN with the Om 2008.9 ? 
Nov 01 16:20:21 <mickey|zzZZzz> dunno 'bout 2008.9, but it works fine on the console here
Nov 01 16:20:34 <mickey|zzZZzz> (running wpa_supplicant with a proper .conf file)
Nov 01 16:21:18 <mwester> does it stay connected, mickey|zzZZzz ?
Nov 01 16:21:29 * mwester can't get his to stay associated for more than a few minutes.
Nov 01 16:21:51 <slalomsk8er> well hav to get a consol with out network?
Nov 01 16:22:28 <mwester> USB
Nov 01 16:28:03 <mickey|zzZZzz> mwester: seems to keep connection here, yes. although the jitter is unbearable
Nov 01 16:32:45 <ernst> http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=V5KTcgTGzpk
Nov 01 16:53:26 <puppe> hallo. Just got my Freerunner and doing a opkg update for the first time. However I think it fails even though I seem to have the right address accoring to this page: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner
Nov 01 16:55:55 <pooze> hmm...
Nov 01 16:56:17 * pooze is wondering where all my icons went after the latest opkg upgrade using the testing repositories in 2008.x
Nov 01 16:58:49 <F4t> does anyone know how do i unpack jffs2 modify some files and pack it back?
Nov 01 17:01:01 <lindi-> F4t: just mount it?
Nov 01 17:01:19 <lindi-> F4t: place it to mtdram first
Nov 01 17:03:41 <pooze> does anybody know what has happened with the latest testing repository?
Nov 01 17:03:45 <pooze> all the icons are gone.
Nov 01 17:03:52 <pooze> any ideas on how to get them back?
Nov 01 17:03:56 <pooze> downgrade some package perhaps?
Nov 01 17:05:58 <F4t> lindi-, mtdram?
Nov 01 17:06:50 <lindi-> F4t: find /lib/modules|grep mtdram
Nov 01 17:07:35 <F4t> no such thing (on the moko)
Nov 01 17:08:02 <lindi-> F4t: in debian there is
Nov 01 17:08:12 <lindi-> F4t: and kernel.org
Nov 01 17:09:04 <lindi-> F4t: anyways you probably don't have enough ram on your moko
Nov 01 17:09:14 <F4t> i dont want to mount it on the ram,,,
Nov 01 17:09:29 <F4t> reading a file from an smb share and writing to it should be enough, no?
Nov 01 17:09:35 <lindi-> smb?
Nov 01 17:09:48 <pooze> F4t: what exactly is it that you want to do?
Nov 01 17:10:09 <pooze> jffs2 is a filesystem... a file containing the raw filesystem data.
Nov 01 17:10:14 <pooze> it's not like a zip-file.
Nov 01 17:10:27 <F4t> edit qtopia's jffs2 file so it won't try to mount my partitioned SD card...
Nov 01 17:10:33 <F4t> and then flash it
Nov 01 17:10:42 <lindi-> F4t: do it on your PC
Nov 01 17:10:50 <F4t> lindi-, im using windows
Nov 01 17:11:04 <lindi-> F4t: then boot debian with qemu
Nov 01 17:11:10 <pooze> you can either mount it loopback on your computer, or flash it, THEN edit the files trying to mount SD card patitions, and reboot
Nov 01 17:11:26 <lindi-> F4t: moko does not have enough ram for it, sorry
Nov 01 17:11:37 <lindi-> pooze: loopback only works with mtdram
Nov 01 17:11:42 <F4t> can it be mounted like an iso file?
Nov 01 17:11:49 <lindi-> F4t: only via mtdram
Nov 01 17:12:09 <pooze> lindi-: yes, that's what I meant, didn't understand he was using windows.
Nov 01 17:12:13 <F4t> oh... ok, can i mount the flash memory? :)
Nov 01 17:12:35 <lindi-> F4t: /dev/mtdblock0 yes
Nov 01 17:12:51 <F4t> ahh, much easier, ill just mount it and edit the files there...
Nov 01 17:12:59 <lindi-> F4t: huh?
Nov 01 17:13:24 <F4t> the moko is running debain from sd
Nov 01 17:13:36 <lindi-> F4t: ok, then you copy it to mtdblock first
Nov 01 17:13:55 <F4t> i already flashed the jffs2 , using the regular method...
Nov 01 17:14:06 <F4t> that means mtdblock should have the files, right?
Nov 01 17:14:58 <F4t> whats the file system on mtdblock0?
Nov 01 17:17:30 <F4t> ...??
Nov 01 17:17:45 <lindi-> F4t: file -sL /dev/mtdblock0
Nov 01 17:18:40 <F4t> /dev/mtdblock0: data 
Nov 01 17:18:41 <F4t> ?
Nov 01 17:19:25 <lindi-> no fs then
Nov 01 17:19:33 <F4t> mtdblock6 seems to be the jffs2... 
Nov 01 17:19:51 <F4t> /dev/mtdblock6: Linux jffs2 filesystem data little endian
Nov 01 17:20:40 <F4t> yay, it seems to have worked! :)
Nov 01 17:23:32 <F4t> thanks lindi- and pooze
Nov 01 17:34:07 <pooze> anybody any idea on how I can get my icons back on Om2008.8 after updating with the latest testing repository?
Nov 01 17:38:44 <pooze> the situation is that I have booted up, in the bottom of the screen I have the installer, at the top of the screen I have a down arrow and the time.
Nov 01 17:39:06 <pooze> when pressing the down arrow, it slides down like normal, but I have no choices there.
Nov 01 17:39:10 <pooze> not even the normal "home"
Nov 01 17:39:18 <pooze> and for the rest, the screen is completely black
Nov 01 17:39:31 <pooze> as you would guess when removing all the icons.
Nov 01 17:39:41 <pooze> seems like some program isn't running.
Nov 01 17:39:52 <pooze> the "home"-application, if there is such a thing.
Nov 01 17:39:57 <pooze> any clues?
Nov 01 17:42:06 <SpeedEvil> If this was last year, I'd be suggesting connecting to u-boot console, and doing nand erase rootfs then reflashing.
Nov 01 17:42:14 <SpeedEvil> But that can't still be a problem?
Nov 01 17:43:05 <pooze> if I don't get any hints or suggestions that could point me towards a solution, that is going to be what I have to do.
Nov 01 17:43:13 <pooze> but I seriously hope that there is some alternative option.
Nov 01 17:43:27 <pooze> could it be as simple as manually starting some program?
Nov 01 17:43:41 <pooze> or if there is a possibility of downgrading some package?
Nov 01 17:44:10 <SpeedEvil> search for nand erase rootfs in the wiki
Nov 01 17:44:21 <pooze> having just upgraded from the stable image released 13th of september or so to the testing repository, I have a huge list of packages that could potentially be the problem.
Nov 01 17:44:40 <pooze> I know how to reflash the phone.
Nov 01 17:44:44 <SpeedEvil> Sorry.
Nov 01 17:44:48 <SpeedEvil> I can't be much help.
Nov 01 17:44:56 <SpeedEvil> I've not got FR.
Nov 01 17:45:00 <pooze> but then I would be back to the stable release which I think has to be too old by now.
Nov 01 17:45:10 <SpeedEvil> And haven't been keeping up with the latest distros.
Nov 01 17:45:11 <pooze> ok, but thanks for replying anyway.
Nov 01 17:45:20 <SpeedEvil> Good luck!
Nov 01 17:45:37 <pooze> thanks.
Nov 01 17:46:03 <pooze> but surely I can't be the only one trying out the testing repositories on om2008 here, can I?
Nov 01 17:46:07 <Alex[sp3dev]> hello here! has anyone tried to compile qt extended 4.4.2 with openmoko toolchain?
Nov 01 17:46:18 <pooze> can at least somebody else confirm that the latest upgrade works for them?
Nov 01 17:48:56 <F4t> im not touching om... im toying with qtopia and debian :)
Nov 01 17:49:15 <pooze> F4t: does qtopia seem to work for you?
Nov 01 17:49:25 <pooze> I was not able to receive any calls on 4.4.1 at least.
Nov 01 17:49:34 <pooze> I was able to make calls though
Nov 01 17:49:52 <rysiek|pl> hi all
Nov 01 17:50:08 <pooze> and incoming sms'es seemed to copy all my inbox messages on the simcard for every incoming sms I got.
Nov 01 17:50:19 <pooze> so I ended up having more than 300 incoming messages easily.
Nov 01 17:50:23 <pooze> which all had to be deleted.
Nov 01 17:50:30 <pooze> I stopped using qtopia.
Nov 01 17:50:34 <pooze> what about debian?
Nov 01 17:50:48 <pooze> I might want to try that one out.. but how does it work?
Nov 01 17:51:15 <pooze> FSO actually took all my simcard-inbox-messages and forwarded them back to the original sender... :(
Nov 01 17:51:20 <pooze> without notifying me.
Nov 01 17:51:38 <rysiek|pl> guys, I'm planning to hack together some uSD uImage.bin + rootfs images for Neo FreeRunner containing a whole bunch of games (duke, wesnoth, openttd), apps (pidgin, tangogps, remoko) etc so that it will be easy to show what this hardware can be used for
Nov 01 17:51:47 <pooze> luckily one of the guys receiving such a message was sitting right next to me at the time, so I could pull out the battery and never start FSO again.
Nov 01 17:52:32 <rysiek|pl> the Big Question is: on which distro (OM2008.9? FSO?) should I base that?
Nov 01 17:52:39 <pooze> ryiek|pl: sounds like a great idea... however, what I need first of all is a stable phone... then apps can come later.
Nov 01 17:52:51 <pooze> I don't feel like showing off this great ... aeh... "phone" with cool apps.
Nov 01 17:53:06 <rysiek|pl> pooze: my priorities are exactly opposite right now ;)
Nov 01 17:53:16 <pooze> people will just show off their laptop with their apps and claim it can do the same thing... better... faster... ;)
Nov 01 17:53:24 <rysiek|pl> pooze: I am working for an R&D lab at a technical university in Poland
Nov 01 17:53:29 <pooze> rysiek|pl: so you have a second phone then I guess?
Nov 01 17:53:36 <rysiek|pl> pooze: yup
Nov 01 17:53:36 <pooze> I don't... so I need the FR working as a phone.
Nov 01 17:53:40 <pooze> I have a laptop for my apps...
Nov 01 17:53:41 <pooze> ;)
Nov 01 17:53:49 <rysiek|pl> pooze: my job is to show FR as a dev platform
Nov 01 17:53:53 <pooze> which I would also love to run on FR, but that's second priority
Nov 01 17:54:11 <rysiek|pl> pooze: but I have been successfuly using FR with OM2007.2+updates for a while now
Nov 01 17:54:24 <pooze> as a phone?
Nov 01 17:54:30 <rysiek|pl> yes, as a phone
Nov 01 17:54:32 <F4t> pooze, qtopia seemed to work until the stage where it registered on the gsm network, didnt check any further...
Nov 01 17:54:37 <rysiek|pl> as in "mobile telephone"
Nov 01 17:54:49 <pooze> you can successfully make and receive phone calls with 100% reliability all the time (assuming you have signals) without echo?
Nov 01 17:55:10 <F4t> pooze, debian rules, i can call and accept calles with zhone... and wield the power of debian while im at it :)
Nov 01 17:55:11 <rysiek|pl> pooze: more or less, yeah. no echo. quiet a bit, though
Nov 01 17:55:23 <rysiek|pl> F4t: SD or flashed?
Nov 01 17:55:37 <guruwho> F4t: do you have echo?
Nov 01 17:55:46 <guruwho> that's my current issue
Nov 01 17:56:01 <F4t> guruwho, nop, only problem i had was someone was hearing me weakly on the the side...
Nov 01 17:56:10 <F4t> just need to play with the mic volume i think
Nov 01 17:56:13 <pooze> I think the echo-patch should be in the latest Om2008 testing repos though, but upgrading removed all my icons.. :(
Nov 01 17:56:30 <F4t> rysiek|pl, debian on the SD... qtopia flashed, in case ill screw up the debian :D
Nov 01 17:56:54 <rysiek|pl> F4t: ah, nice setup. ;) what about the SD, how big is it?
Nov 01 17:57:06 <F4t> i got 4 gig card
Nov 01 17:57:11 <pooze> how much space do you need for debian actually?
Nov 01 17:57:11 <rysiek|pl> sh*t
Nov 01 17:57:16 <pooze> I still only have the 512 card.
Nov 01 17:57:18 <F4t> wanted 8, but thats a huge price jump
Nov 01 17:57:31 <SpeedEvil> 16 available yet?
Nov 01 17:57:36 <F4t> dude, they cost here less then a meal in a restaraunt :D
Nov 01 17:57:51 <F4t> and probably everywhere...
Nov 01 17:57:54 <rysiek|pl> ffs, Om2008.8-upgrade snapshot images were just *great* for me, but w00t - they're no more on the 'net
Nov 01 17:58:20 <Ke> btw will omgta03 have the touchscreen pen holder?
Nov 01 17:58:25 <pooze> rysiek|pl: which images?
Nov 01 17:58:32 <rysiek|pl> F4t: that is true, but right now I only have two 512's ;)
Nov 01 17:58:34 <F4t> the 4gb sdhc card cost me 100 nis (23 usd)
Nov 01 17:58:40 <rysiek|pl> pooze: OM2008.8-update
Nov 01 17:59:03 <rysiek|pl> pooze: as in: daily snapshots
Nov 01 17:59:05 <pooze> rysiek|pl: without upgrading to the testing repos, right?
Nov 01 17:59:13 <rysiek|pl> pooze: huh?
Nov 01 17:59:22 <F4t> rysiek|pl, two 512? :) what do you do with the seconds one? you can really hot-swap them ...
Nov 01 17:59:23 <pooze> rysiek|pl: daily snapshots? I tried that yesterday, but I only had settings.. :(
Nov 01 17:59:30 <pooze> rysiek|pl: not even a dialer...
Nov 01 17:59:31 <rysiek|pl> pooze: exactly
Nov 01 17:59:39 <rysiek|pl> pooze: there used to be something called 2008.8-updates
Nov 01 17:59:48 <rysiek|pl> pooze: daily snapshots WITH a few apps
Nov 01 17:59:55 <rysiek|pl> but they are no more
Nov 01 17:59:57 <pooze> aha..
Nov 01 17:59:59 <F4t> bah full sd backup takes forever...
Nov 01 18:00:00 <pooze> shame..
Nov 01 18:00:07 <rysiek|pl> ffs and those where EXACTLY what I need
Nov 01 18:00:13 <pooze> so what do you need to get a dialer, phonebook etc?
Nov 01 18:00:22 <pooze> are they in the installer list somewhere?
Nov 01 18:00:34 <rysiek|pl> pooze: I think you're better off using some stable images
Nov 01 18:00:45 <pooze> humpf...
Nov 01 18:00:57 <rysiek|pl> pooze: like OM2007.x, 2008.8, Qtopia...
Nov 01 18:01:02 <F4t> pooze, try debian :)
Nov 01 18:01:04 <pooze> but that doesn't include echo cancellation or the network registering jumping behavior patch either.
Nov 01 18:01:09 <rysiek|pl> pooze: "humpf"? I thought you wanted a working phone
Nov 01 18:01:21 <F4t> rysiek|pl, om200x is stable? 
Nov 01 18:01:21 <pooze> yes.. but including those patches.. ;)
Nov 01 18:01:29 <rysiek|pl> pooze: I hadn't had any echo on 2007
Nov 01 18:01:41 <pooze> perhaps I should go back to that one then.
Nov 01 18:01:49 <rysiek|pl> F4t: more stable than daily and fso anyways ;)
Nov 01 18:01:53 <pooze> but my phone is also one of those that can't handle deep sleep on the gsm
Nov 01 18:02:04 <pooze> then I lose network connection and has to reregister once every 1-2 minutes.
Nov 01 18:02:21 <rysiek|pl> pooze: no deep sleep, haven;'t been using it at all
Nov 01 18:02:31 <rysiek|pl> pooze: neod ftw ;)
Nov 01 18:02:42 <F4t> wth is gsm deep sleep?
Nov 01 18:02:47 <pooze> the gsm module enters some deep sleep to save power, as far as I've understood.
Nov 01 18:02:52 <pooze> but some phones as problems with that.
Nov 01 18:02:54 <pooze> such as mine.
Nov 01 18:02:54 <rysiek|pl> anywhoo... be back in a jiffy
Nov 01 18:03:02 <pooze> and loses network registration
Nov 01 18:03:08 <F4t> pooze, which gat02 do you have?
Nov 01 18:03:08 <pooze> ticket 1024
Nov 01 18:03:11 <F4t> gta02*
Nov 01 18:03:16 <rysiek|pl> nope. the PHONE enters deep sleep, WITH gsm running
Nov 01 18:03:18 <pooze> v5 I guess.
Nov 01 18:03:41 <pooze> here is the ticket explaining my problem.
Nov 01 18:03:41 <pooze> https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1024
Nov 01 18:03:44 <F4t> i think i have v5 too, dont think i have the deep gsm sleep problem though
Nov 01 18:04:48 <F4t> how did you get this log?
Nov 01 18:04:59 <pooze> which log?
Nov 01 18:05:45 <F4t> in the ticket...
Nov 01 18:05:57 <pooze> I didn't.. just recognize the behavior
Nov 01 18:06:05 <pooze> but i think it is explained in there somewhere how to do it.
Nov 01 18:06:11 <pooze> or with a link to some page that does.
Nov 01 18:06:46 <F4t> ohh, k... lol i just tried to call the moko when its running qtopia but qpe is stopped...
Nov 01 18:07:04 <F4t> it sounds on the caller's end like no one picks up
Nov 01 18:07:26 <pooze> hmm.. familiar.
Nov 01 18:07:27 <F4t> i wonder how many calls i missed during the sd backup
Nov 01 18:08:05 <pooze> and I wonder how many calls I missed during my time as a FR owner.. :-P
Nov 01 18:08:13 <pooze> tried to call myself from the work-phone yesterday
Nov 01 18:08:21 <pooze> out of 20 calls, I managed to get trough once.
Nov 01 18:08:35 <pooze> not bad with a 5% hit-rate, though? :p
Nov 01 18:08:49 <F4t> thats horrible.... i hope i dont have the same stats... i just tried one call to the moko, and it got through...
Nov 01 18:08:59 <F4t> though i didnt have any more calls, so im starting to get suspicious
Nov 01 18:09:05 <pooze> good.. ;)
Nov 01 18:09:12 <pooze> I guess it has something to do with the ticket I just showed.
Nov 01 18:09:22 <F4t> probably
Nov 01 18:09:25 <pooze> which is why I want quite a reasonably new image.
Nov 01 18:09:49 <F4t> how slow is the frickin sd card... all i want is to read 500 mb... gzipit.. and send over usb 1.1 to my laptop...
Nov 01 18:10:12 <pooze> but then on the other hand... only letting 5% of the incoming calls through versus not having phone functionality at all (which is the case with the latest testing repos), the choice is still quite clear..
Nov 01 18:10:13 <F4t> its guess where is the bottle-neck game....
Nov 01 18:10:18 <rysiek|pl> hmm
Nov 01 18:10:34 <jonkristian> dfu-util , what kind of licence is this under?
Nov 01 18:10:38 <rysiek|pl> guys, anybody knows which feed I can subscribe to from under FSO?
Nov 01 18:10:48 <rysiek|pl> and not have the system b0rked? ;)
Nov 01 18:11:14 <pooze> rysiek|pl: I tried asking the same a few weeks back when trying out FSO, but got no answer then.. ;)
Nov 01 18:11:21 <F4t> http://hidden-fso-feed.org/not-borking-stable-one/
Nov 01 18:11:29 <F4t> :)
Nov 01 18:11:45 <rysiek|pl> F4t: thanks!
Nov 01 18:12:04 <rysiek|pl> F4t: seems like hidden-fso-feed.org has duke and wesnoth!
Nov 01 18:12:05 <rysiek|pl> cool
Nov 01 18:12:16 <pooze> shouldn't there be a FSO MS4 out any day now?
Nov 01 18:12:23 <F4t> lol, btw, anyone here using tangoGPS?
Nov 01 18:12:32 * rysiek|pl uses
Nov 01 18:12:38 <pooze> I did..
Nov 01 18:12:43 <pooze> when I had a working phone. :(
Nov 01 18:13:19 <F4t> i just finished writing yesterday the first version of my "rip-google-maps-and-store-as-tangogps-format" python script that runs on my pc
Nov 01 18:13:34 <mickey|zzZZzz> downloads.openmoko.org contains a feed
Nov 01 18:13:36 <pooze> F4t: why that?
Nov 01 18:13:36 <mickey|zzZZzz> err
Nov 01 18:13:40 <mickey|zzZZzz> downloads.bearstech.com
Nov 01 18:13:43 <mickey|zzZZzz> or
Nov 01 18:13:46 <mickey|zzZZzz> downloads.freesmartphone.org
Nov 01 18:13:48 <mickey|zzZZzz> for that matter
Nov 01 18:13:49 <pooze> F4t: isn't the openstreetsomething good enough?
Nov 01 18:13:50 <uhsf> how are any of these games playable without an input device ?
Nov 01 18:13:54 <rysiek|pl> mickey|zzZZzz: thanks
Nov 01 18:14:04 <rysiek|pl> OpenStreetMap ;)
Nov 01 18:14:14 <rysiek|pl> uhsf: accelerometeras
Nov 01 18:14:15 <F4t> pooze, openstreet and the rest are very bad, they show one street in 300 in israel... :-/
Nov 01 18:14:18 <rysiek|pl> *...meters
Nov 01 18:14:33 <pooze> F4t: ah, I see.
Nov 01 18:14:45 <rysiek|pl> F4t: well then, out with your FR you go and tag and map!
Nov 01 18:14:52 <davi> F4t, improve it
Nov 01 18:14:53 <F4t> pooze, and directly using googlemaps from tangogps = instant block by ip from google.. :)
Nov 01 18:15:23 <davi> Google sucks
Nov 01 18:15:28 <rysiek|pl> true
Nov 01 18:15:29 <pooze> remember to renew your ip then.. ;)
Nov 01 18:15:40 <SpeedEvil> You're violating the TOS using google that way.
Nov 01 18:15:50 <SpeedEvil> They don't get the maps for free you know.
Nov 01 18:15:50 <F4t> pooze, would do, if i wasnt leeching the neighbours internet right now :)
Nov 01 18:16:28 <F4t> SpeedEvil, tangoGPS would cache the maps anyway, wouldnt it?
Nov 01 18:16:50 <uhsf> so you shake the FR like a wiimote to play games?  i guess i just don't get the point
Nov 01 18:17:22 <F4t> uhsf, you can also call with the FR, unlike the wiimote :)
Nov 01 18:17:36 <SpeedEvil> F4t: caching is against the TOS.
Nov 01 18:17:53 <rysiek|pl> uhsf: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=260Kpiqv9_U
Nov 01 18:18:04 <F4t> SpeedEvil, ow, thanks for pointing it out...
Nov 01 18:18:41 <rysiek|pl> F4t: and leaching those maps offline for use with tangogps is also against TOS
Nov 01 18:19:05 <SpeedEvil> Google has to actually pay a truly massive amount in license fees if they wanted to allow users to cache the tiles.
Nov 01 18:19:42 <F4t> rysiek|pl, yea, i figured it out :)
Nov 01 18:20:07 <rysiek|pl> and, I assume, it does not bother you least bit, right?
Nov 01 18:20:55 <F4t> well, since its not exactly leagal ill keep it to myself, but i have no other alternative when it comes to gps in my area...
Nov 01 18:22:34 <rysiek|pl> F4t: meh, already said - go out there and improve the maps at OSM.org ;)
Nov 01 18:22:43 * SpeedEvil points F4t at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Beginners'_Guide
Nov 01 18:22:58 <SpeedEvil> Where are you F4t ?
Nov 01 18:23:03 <F4t> but that involves walking!...
Nov 01 18:23:06 <F4t> im from israel
Nov 01 18:23:46 <rysiek|pl> and that makes you a better human being somehow?
Nov 01 18:24:04 <rysiek|pl> one that can ignore TOS, and one that does not have to walk?
Nov 01 18:24:10 <rysiek|pl> and no it does not involve walking
Nov 01 18:24:22 <Blastur> hows the aircraft-thingie project going SpeedEvil?
Nov 01 18:24:38 <F4t> someone who ignores tos and does not walk isnt a better human being...
Nov 01 18:24:41 <rysiek|pl> I, for one, ride a bike and use public transportation. and guess what? tangogps saves my route so I cn update maps at hom
Nov 01 18:24:42 <rysiek|pl> e
Nov 01 18:25:26 <SpeedEvil> Blankoworld: slowly
Nov 01 18:25:29 <SpeedEvil> blast:
Nov 01 18:28:05 <Blastur> i was thinking about building a small RC-vehicle, but i know nothing about mechanics and motors .. maybe you can help me? :) like, what is the typical interface to a motor? i want to control it from my CPU 
Nov 01 18:28:22 <Blastur> i guess i cant plug it directly to a PWM port, cause the power is not enough ..?
Nov 01 18:28:42 <quickdev> Blastur, right, you need some kind of control unit
Nov 01 18:28:46 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * r8933e4669ad3 10/ (5 files in 4 dirs): add skeleton for oevents subsystem documentation
Nov 01 18:28:54 <Blastur> and what kind of motors are there? i'd like a motor which can run in forward or reverse, how do you signal that to a motor? 
Nov 01 18:29:46 <quickdev> Blastur, this is probably the wrong channel for such questions.. ;)
Nov 01 18:29:53 <Blastur> i guess :)
Nov 01 18:29:54 <pooze> Blastur: I'm by no means an expert, but you would need a speed-controller.
Nov 01 18:30:14 <pooze> Blastur: the speed-controller would set the correct power to the motor depending on it's inputs.
Nov 01 18:30:38 <Blastur> okay, but cant i simply bypass the speed controller and do that job in my own cpu?
Nov 01 18:30:44 <pooze> I assume you just switch the + and - power to the motor for that?
Nov 01 18:30:59 <pooze> your cpu probably can't deliver the power.
Nov 01 18:31:00 <SpeedEvil> Blastur: ##electronics
Nov 01 18:31:04 <SpeedEvil> Blastur: however.
Nov 01 18:31:18 <SpeedEvil> Blastur: 99% of R/C stuff uses PWM.
Nov 01 18:31:35 <SpeedEvil> Blastur: 0.5ms-1.5ms (or so) spaced at 20ms.
Nov 01 18:31:54 <SpeedEvil> Blastur: 0.5ms is 'off, left, ...' 1.5ms is 'full throttle, right, ...'
Nov 01 18:32:15 <SpeedEvil> You get little boards that take serial in and run 8 servos.
Nov 01 18:32:45 <Blastur> cool
Nov 01 18:32:57 <Blastur> you know any european online shops shipping these?
Nov 01 18:34:16 <SpeedEvil> no
Nov 01 18:35:00 <SpeedEvil> http://nqrc.com/ is a vendor - though in .au
Nov 01 18:35:08 <SpeedEvil> he's a regular in ##electronics
Nov 01 18:35:29 <SpeedEvil> ebay works too
Nov 01 18:35:48 <Blastur> so what is the difference between a "motor" and a "servo"?
Nov 01 18:36:07 <Blastur> a servo is a motor + a small controller?
Nov 01 18:36:20 <SpeedEvil> Essentially
Nov 01 18:36:36 <guruwho> Blastur: servos have precise position control
Nov 01 18:36:39 <SpeedEvil> it's a motor that goes to a given position represented by teh pulse-width
Nov 01 18:37:00 <SpeedEvil> The same protocol however is used for speed controllers of 'normal' motors that go round and round.
Nov 01 18:37:22 <SpeedEvil> Known as ESC - electronic speed controllers
Nov 01 18:37:32 <Blastur> oh, i see .. so it counts the revolutions of the motor and determines it position?
Nov 01 18:37:42 <SpeedEvil> Not actually. 
Nov 01 18:37:51 <SpeedEvil> But practically.
Nov 01 18:38:27 <Blastur> but a servo cannot spin right? like, i cant use it to drive a wheel or so?
Nov 01 18:38:34 <Blastur> cause it can't turn more than 360 degrees?
Nov 01 18:39:15 <guruwho> not usually, +-45 typically
Nov 01 18:39:17 <SpeedEvil> You get similar devices which turn round.
Nov 01 18:39:29 <SpeedEvil> Or you can repurpose stuff.
Nov 01 18:39:42 <Blastur> so you never ever really just use a "motor" which starts spinning whenever you put power to it?
Nov 01 18:39:42 <cjb_ie> stepper motors, but they're noisy
Nov 01 18:40:20 <cjb_ie> Blastur: sure you do, but there are subtleties
Nov 01 18:40:46 <Blastur> hmm
Nov 01 18:40:53 <SpeedEvil> Do you for exampel care how many revs/second it makes.
Nov 01 18:41:17 <SpeedEvil> If you have two wheels one going 101 RPM, one going 100RPM, and you think you're going straight - lulz.
Nov 01 18:41:20 <Blastur> im just not sure what to do.. i basically want to build this small platform where i can put a camera, and the camera drives the motors
Nov 01 18:41:41 <SpeedEvil> camera drives the motors?
Nov 01 18:41:49 <Blastur> (so yeah, i guess i need feedback from the motors)
Nov 01 18:41:56 <Blastur> yeah, or well, the camera platform
Nov 01 18:42:00 <Blastur> it's a SoC
Nov 01 18:42:35 <SpeedEvil> http://hackingroomba.com/ may be of use
Nov 01 18:42:56 <guruwho> hehe I have one of those
Nov 01 18:44:30 <SpeedEvil> Also google 'servo camera wheels'
Nov 01 18:45:19 <Blastur> well, the I/O i have available on the camera is 2 GPIO and 1 serial
Nov 01 18:45:36 <Blastur> so i guess one of those motor controllers would be perfect there
Nov 01 18:46:58 <SpeedEvil> what's this camera?
Nov 01 18:47:04 <SpeedEvil> It's a camera dev board?
Nov 01 18:48:08 <Blastur> i was thinking about using this: http://www.axis.com/products/cam_207w/index.htm
Nov 01 18:48:21 <Blastur> and use its wlan for remote control
Nov 01 18:48:59 <Blastur> or maybe this: http://www.axis.com/products/cam_214/index.htm
Nov 01 18:49:14 <Blastur> so i can tilt the view also :)
Nov 01 18:49:24 <SpeedEvil> You can put your own OS on those?
Nov 01 18:49:41 <Blastur> it runs linux
Nov 01 18:49:55 <SpeedEvil> Blastur: that's not quite the same thing.
Nov 01 18:50:05 <SpeedEvil> Blastur: can you run stuff on it?
Nov 01 18:50:20 <Blastur> well, axis provides a complete SDK, you can rebuild the kernel and whatnot
Nov 01 18:50:27 <SpeedEvil> k
Nov 01 18:50:32 <Blastur> i personally work for axis as a kernel developer, so i can do whatever i want :)
Nov 01 18:51:07 <quickdev> The process events/0 constantly takes 20% cpu usage. What's that? Accelerometers? How can I disable them?
Nov 01 18:51:49 <Blastur> but i think anyone can use the platform .. there is even a 3rd party initative called CrisOS (http://crisos.org/dokuwiki/doku.php) which you can run on most of our products
Nov 01 18:52:08 <SpeedEvil> quickdev: go to zero gravity?
Nov 01 18:52:23 <SpeedEvil> Blastur: neat.
Nov 01 18:52:43 <Blastur> quickdev, i think events/0 is a kernel thread handling all work queues .. so anything putting stuff into the work queues may cause that cpu usage
Nov 01 18:52:48 <SpeedEvil> Blastur: can the end-user flash their own images and run their own software easily on mass-market units I guess is what I mean.
Nov 01 18:53:20 <Blastur> yeah
Nov 01 18:54:03 <Blastur> im not 100% sure if we support re-flashing, but its definitely possible.. you can enable telnet shell + ftp to upload your own apps at least, at lot of our resellers do that to brand the cameras
Nov 01 18:54:29 <quickdev> Blastur, SpeedEvil, something to do with: hald-addon-input: Listening on /dev/input/event4 /dev/input/event0 /dev/input/event1 ?
Nov 01 18:55:47 <laen> Okay, i got a newbie question. I just received the Openmoko, and since the OM 2007.* wasn't great, i flashed it with OM 2008.9.
Nov 01 18:56:00 <laen> Now, i got the usb connection working.. and i wish to SSH into it.
Nov 01 18:56:25 <laen> But, the manual says the password is blank, though when i ssh to it and it asks for a password, and i press enter.. fails.
Nov 01 18:56:40 <laen> If i change the root password, and use that one.. fails again. How do i ssh into it?
Nov 01 18:56:49 <SpeedEvil> laen: stupid question.
Nov 01 18:57:10 <SpeedEvil> laen: you're SSHing to your FR, not the usb0 adress of your own computer?
Nov 01 18:57:23 <laen> No, using the IP set for usb0.
Nov 01 18:57:45 <prosoft> Hello
Nov 01 18:57:54 <pd> hi
Nov 01 18:58:21 <SpeedEvil> laen: 'the address set for usb0' - that listed in ifconfig usb0 - is your own comptuer
Nov 01 18:58:46 <laen> Lol, okay. So, how do i ssh into it then?
Nov 01 18:59:07 <SpeedEvil> what's the address?
Nov 01 18:59:09 <pooze> laen: I guess your computers usb0 address is 192.168.0.200?
Nov 01 18:59:22 <pooze> if so, I would also assume your FR's usb0 address is 192.168.0.202
Nov 01 18:59:22 <SpeedEvil> then 192.168.0.202 is the FR prolly
Nov 01 18:59:26 <pooze> try that one instead.
Nov 01 19:01:26 <laen> Ah, woops :P
Nov 01 19:04:49 <jonkristian> hm, tangogps, when i try to register my nick, in the password column the keyboard goes away. How do i bring it back to type in a pw?
Nov 01 19:06:42 <lindi-> jonkristian: i run the command "xvkbd" to start my keyboard
Nov 01 19:07:31 <yabo> so
Nov 01 19:07:33 <yabo> df -h
Nov 01 19:07:56 <yabo> rootfs 462M used / 464M Size
Nov 01 19:07:59 <yabo> but
Nov 01 19:08:12 <jonkristian> lindi-: it shows when i focus the nickname, but not in the pw
Nov 01 19:08:32 <lindi-> jonkristian: which keyboard do you use?
Nov 01 19:08:41 <yabo> ./dev/mmcblk0p1 has lots of free space
Nov 01 19:08:47 <jonkristian> lindi-: the one that is shipped by default
Nov 01 19:09:02 <yabo> and there are lots of "tmpfs" with free space tpp
Nov 01 19:09:04 <yabo> too*
Nov 01 19:09:07 <jonkristian> lindi-: got the freerunner today:)
Nov 01 19:09:08 <lindi-> jonkristian: default?
Nov 01 19:09:23 <yabo> is it possible to use this space somehow? i am looking to use apt-get install for some stuff
Nov 01 19:09:33 <lindi-> jonkristian: sorry but i don't remember what it has, please figure out what the name of the xecutable is with "ps axuf"
Nov 01 19:10:01 <lindi-> yabo: tmpfs is lost on reboot
Nov 01 19:10:09 <yabo> what is tmpfs?
Nov 01 19:10:21 <yabo> cant i add all that stuff to rootfs?
Nov 01 19:10:24 <lindi-> yabo: filesystem that uses RAM as backing store
Nov 01 19:10:57 <lindi-> yabo: it's better than /dev/ram0 since it can resize on demand
Nov 01 19:11:02 <jonkristian> lindi-: multitap-pad? Other than that, i see hald-addon-keyboard
Nov 01 19:11:08 <yabo> ok lindi-
Nov 01 19:11:37 <lindi-> jonkristian: ok. i don't unfortunately remember how its hiding is handled
Nov 01 19:11:47 <lindi-> yabo: just buy 2G sd card
Nov 01 19:11:52 <yabo> thats all i can do?
Nov 01 19:12:06 <lindi-> yabo: that's the easiest
Nov 01 19:12:16 <lindi-> yabo: 2G sd card cost here like 8 EUR
Nov 01 19:12:19 <yabo>  what can i do without leaving my home?
Nov 01 19:12:41 <lindi-> yabo: mount a diretory from your PC with nfs? ;)
Nov 01 19:13:05 <lindi-> yabo: use nand flash in addition to SD?
Nov 01 19:13:12 <lindi-> yabo: use compression with SD?
Nov 01 19:13:15 <jonkristian> lindi-: I just registered with the default pw that was in the box, hehe
Nov 01 19:13:15 <lindi-> yabo: install less software?
Nov 01 19:13:22 <yabo> how can i use nand flash in addition to SD?
Nov 01 19:13:32 <yabo> im looking to install some stuff with apt-get
Nov 01 19:13:50 <lindi-> yabo: different possibilities
Nov 01 19:13:57 <lindi-> yabo: you could put /usr to nand for example
Nov 01 19:14:00 <lindi-> yabo: or /home
Nov 01 19:14:11 <lindi-> yabo: or you could use unionfs to combine them together
Nov 01 19:14:48 <yabo> how do i put /usr to nand?
Nov 01 19:14:49 <lindi-> world is full of possibilities :) (and i'm only talking about possibilities that are in possible with thing in debian. of course you can even write new software)
Nov 01 19:14:58 <rysiek|pl> is it still true that Debian does not support accelerometers in FR?
Nov 01 19:15:01 <lindi-> yabo: i'm not sure you want to do that if you don't know how :)
Nov 01 19:15:03 <lindi-> rysiek|pl: no
Nov 01 19:15:09 <yabo> bah.
Nov 01 19:15:13 <lindi-> rysiek|pl: depend on what support means of course
Nov 01 19:15:27 <yabo> by the way
Nov 01 19:15:28 <rysiek|pl> lindi-: duke3d-style
Nov 01 19:15:35 <lindi-> rysiek|pl: is duke3d free?
Nov 01 19:15:46 <yabo> is there better phone-software i can use with debian?
Nov 01 19:15:54 <lindi-> we are working on it :)
Nov 01 19:16:02 <yabo> i dont like zhone
Nov 01 19:16:06 <rysiek|pl> lindi-: as in speech AFAIK
Nov 01 19:16:14 <yabo> if it fails to connect to gsm the first time, it stops trying
Nov 01 19:16:20 <rysiek|pl> lindi-: sources are available, etc
Nov 01 19:16:28 <lindi-> yabo: sudo mount /dev/mtdblock6 /mnt; cp -a /usr/* /mnt?
Nov 01 19:16:44 <lindi-> rysiek|pl: i couldn't find permission to redistribute the graphics
Nov 01 19:17:04 <lindi-> yabo: i feel your pain too. zhone is just a demo app
Nov 01 19:17:13 <yabo> alright
Nov 01 19:17:15 <yabo> so there is nothing yet?
Nov 01 19:17:20 <lindi-> yabo: frameworkd changing all the time
Nov 01 19:17:28 <rysiek|pl> lindi-: oh, hadn';t thought about that
Nov 01 19:18:03 <yabo> lindi-, do you know if Debian comes with something that can play mp3s?
Nov 01 19:18:15 <yabo> or do i have to download mpd or something else?
Nov 01 19:18:20 <lindi-> rysiek|pl: but i can stream accelometer data over bluetooth from the phone to control a game on my laptop
Nov 01 19:18:26 <lindi-> yabo: mplayer
Nov 01 19:18:50 <rysiek|pl> lindi-: ok, so mit works
Nov 01 19:18:52 <rysiek|pl> *it
Nov 01 19:19:02 <rysiek|pl> now... how do one start a new sms in zhone
Nov 01 19:19:07 <lindi-> yabo: i have been planning that we need a really simple phone app that just works no matter what. then we can start to develop more fancy phone apps
Nov 01 19:19:13 <lindi-> rysiek|pl: why wouldn't it work?
Nov 01 19:19:32 <yabo> yes that sounds like a very good plan, lindi-.
Nov 01 19:19:37 <rysiek|pl> dunno, on wiki/Distributions says it's not supported
Nov 01 19:20:04 <yabo> how do you search for stuff with linux?
Nov 01 19:20:23 <yabo> it doesnt seem like i how mplayer.. or?
Nov 01 19:20:32 <jonkristian> Is the 2007.2 still considered the more stable featurefull distribution?
Nov 01 19:21:00 <lindi-> yabo: hmm?
Nov 01 19:21:04 <lindi-> yabo: search stuff?
Nov 01 19:21:09 <yabo> search for files
Nov 01 19:21:18 <lindi-> yabo: grep -r keyword /etc
Nov 01 19:21:41 <yabo> grep -r mplayer /
Nov 01 19:21:43 <yabo> ?
Nov 01 19:22:09 <Dave> RASTER
Nov 01 19:22:50 <lindi-> yabo: apt-cache search mplayer
Nov 01 19:22:59 <lindi-> yabo: if you want to search for debian packages that are not installed yet
Nov 01 19:23:11 <lindi-> yabo: grep only searches for files that exist already :)
Nov 01 19:24:16 <yaboroo> haha... bluescreen
Nov 01 19:25:30 <yaboroo> so..
Nov 01 19:25:47 <yabo> mplayer
Nov 01 19:26:11 <yabo> does the debian-package you  are linked to from the wiki come with it?
Nov 01 19:26:32 <lindi-> yabo: debian package?
Nov 01 19:26:42 <yabo> well the... i dont know download?
Nov 01 19:26:58 <yabo> installation
Nov 01 19:29:11 <lindi-> yabo: huh? debian is debian, it's the whole thing
Nov 01 19:29:15 <yabo> alright
Nov 01 19:29:25 <lindi-> yabo: it might not be installed though, so apt-get install mplayer
Nov 01 19:29:41 <yabo> im trying to figure out whether or not mplayer is already installed or not
Nov 01 19:29:48 <yabo> because i dont have space to install it... :-p
Nov 01 19:30:11 <marsan> question: My FR halts on the splashscreen while booting (no progressbar) on OM2007.2. What do i do?
Nov 01 19:33:19 <yabo> i suppose that if mplayer was already installed,  #which mplayer would return something?
Nov 01 19:33:52 <lindi-> yabo: dpkg -l mplayer
Nov 01 19:34:14 <yabo> it didnt find anything
Nov 01 19:34:19 <yabo> what about alsa
Nov 01 19:34:25 <yabo> cant alsa play something?
Nov 01 19:34:33 <lindi-> yabo: mplayer uses alsa here
Nov 01 19:34:42 <lindi-> yabo: speaker-test
Nov 01 19:35:20 <yabo> thats it?
Nov 01 19:35:22 <yabo> :-R
Nov 01 19:35:29 <yabo> i remember when i got slackware for my desktop
Nov 01 19:35:44 <lindi-> yabo: "speaker-test" is a nice way to test if sounds work
Nov 01 19:35:55 <lindi-> yabo: what do you use on your desktop now?
Nov 01 19:35:57 <yabo> yeah, but can it play files?
Nov 01 19:36:01 <yabo> foobar2000 (windows=
Nov 01 19:36:06 <lindi-> urgh
Nov 01 19:36:18 <yabo> i could use ALSA to play music in a shell on slackware
Nov 01 19:36:20 <lindi-> yabo: you might want to learn debian on a bit friendlier environment than the phone :)
Nov 01 19:36:23 <yabo> doesnt that work in debian?
Nov 01 19:36:25 <lindi-> yabo: alsa is not a program
Nov 01 19:36:29 <yabo> alright
Nov 01 19:36:39 <lindi-> yabo: aplay foo.wav
Nov 01 19:37:04 <yabo> nice :D
Nov 01 19:37:43 <nyu> "the implementation of PDF import has been done according to the PDF
Nov 01 19:37:44 <nyu> specification, there is no plan to change this."
Nov 01 19:37:46 <nyu> geez..
Nov 01 19:38:19 <yabo> thanks a bunch, lindi-
Nov 01 19:38:22 <nyu> poor win32 users
Nov 01 19:38:32 <yabo> why?
Nov 01 19:38:51 <rysiek|pl> nyu: what about them and pdf?
Nov 01 19:39:09 <yabo> lindi-
Nov 01 19:39:47 <nyu> rysiek|pl: http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=90468
Nov 01 19:39:49 <yabo> i only get pink-noise (is that what its called? it sounds like a radio tuned in to an empty frequency)
Nov 01 19:40:08 <nyu> I thought that was white noise
Nov 01 19:40:24 <rysiek|pl> white nois
Nov 01 19:40:25 <rysiek|pl> e
Nov 01 19:40:49 <Ke> I doubt you can actually hear the difference
Nov 01 19:41:00 <yabo> oh nvm
Nov 01 19:41:25 <Ke> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colors_of_noise !
Nov 01 19:41:31 <yabo> aplay -t only takes wav, raw, and au
Nov 01 19:41:44 <rysiek|pl> nyu: true, they are fsck-ed
Nov 01 19:43:34 <lindi-> yabo: 'speaker-test -t pink' is the default
Nov 01 19:43:43 <lindi-> yabo: 'speaker-test -t sine' to hear sine
Nov 01 19:43:58 <lindi-> yabo: yep, install mplayer
Nov 01 19:45:07 <yabo> neh, ill convert my file to wav instead :-R
Nov 01 19:45:07 <yabo> guess ill have to get that 2gb-card
Nov 01 19:45:22 <lindi-> yabo: yeah
Nov 01 19:45:35 <lindi-> yabo: it's much more productive than trying to limit the software you can use
Nov 01 19:46:30 <guruwho> wow playing streaming audio with mplayer uses 70%cpu
Nov 01 19:47:13 <laen> Whats the name of a good terminal client to install with opkg?
Nov 01 19:47:42 <lindi-> guruwho: mp3?
Nov 01 19:47:55 <laen> been browsing the web like crazy now, didn't find the correct package name.
Nov 01 19:48:13 <guruwho> lindi-: I believe so
Nov 01 19:48:29 <guruwho> 192.0 kbit mp3
Nov 01 19:48:43 <lindi-> laen: terminal emulator?
Nov 01 19:49:07 <laen> lindi-: yeah
Nov 01 19:49:17 <lindi-> laen: i use xterm
Nov 01 19:49:21 <laen> OM 2008.9 doesn't seem to come with one.
Nov 01 19:49:34 <laen> And that one provides you with a keyboard and all? Or is that unrelated?
Nov 01 19:49:53 <lindi-> laen: i don't understand why terminal emulator should provide virtual keyboard
Nov 01 19:50:01 <lindi-> they are separate apps
Nov 01 19:50:09 <laen> ah,right
Nov 01 19:53:05 <yabo> lindi-
Nov 01 19:53:08 <yabo> Debian
Nov 01 19:53:17 <yabo> is there something i will never use that can safely be removed?
Nov 01 19:53:24 <yabo> i need a couple of megabytes
Nov 01 19:53:26 <yabo> 4 or so
Nov 01 19:53:59 <yabo> lets make it 2
Nov 01 19:54:01 <lindi-> yabo: again. if you are unsure then not :)
Nov 01 19:54:03 <yabo> 2 megabytes
Nov 01 19:54:10 <yabo> i hardly use anything
Nov 01 19:54:28 <yabo> i mostly only use Nano, ssh and sshd, python, and aplay
Nov 01 19:54:34 <lindi-> and X
Nov 01 19:54:40 <yabo> yes ok
Nov 01 19:54:43 <laen> lindi-: could you please give me the opkg install line, opkg install xterm doesn't do anything
Nov 01 19:54:45 <yabo> except for that?
Nov 01 19:54:56 <lindi-> laen: sorry i didn't read that you needed opkg
Nov 01 19:55:08 <lindi-> yabo: well, with aptitude you can sort packages by their size
Nov 01 19:55:12 <laen> Ah you're using debian i guess.
Nov 01 19:55:19 <lindi-> yabo: and you can mark packages as "automatically installed"
Nov 01 19:55:25 <laen> Anyone who can tell me the opkg line to install a terminal?
Nov 01 19:55:28 <lindi-> yabo: then they will get removed if nothing depends on them
Nov 01 19:55:39 <yabo> how do i sort packages by size?
Nov 01 19:56:40 <laen> opkg install openmoko-terminal2 doesn't work either
Nov 01 19:57:11 <lindi-> yabo: S size RET
Nov 01 19:57:30 <lindi-> yabo: sorry, S installsize RET
Nov 01 19:57:41 <yabo> laen
Nov 01 19:57:54 <yabo> i never got opkg working very well
Nov 01 19:57:54 <lindi-> yabo: if you have VNC client i can show this interactively
Nov 01 19:58:02 <yabo> but you can go to http://rabenfrost.net/celtune/ipk/armv4t/
Nov 01 19:58:11 <yabo> manually download the package
Nov 01 19:58:15 <laen> kk
Nov 01 19:58:17 <yabo> (with dependencies)
Nov 01 19:58:50 <yabo> i think there is a list of packages with dependencies somewhere on rabenfrost
Nov 01 19:59:25 <yabo> lindi-
Nov 01 19:59:26 <yabo> S?
Nov 01 19:59:32 <yabo> invalid operation S
Nov 01 19:59:39 <lindi-> yabo: 'aptitude'
Nov 01 19:59:49 <lindi-> yabo: then you see menus and ascii graphic
Nov 01 19:59:55 <lindi-> yabo: then you use "S"
Nov 01 20:00:08 <yabo> aptitude: command not found 
Nov 01 20:00:15 <lindi-> yabo: apt-get install aptitude :)
Nov 01 20:00:29 <lindi-> yabo: but it will consume disk space of course
Nov 01 20:00:52 <yabo> 3MB
Nov 01 20:00:54 <yabo> usj
Nov 01 20:01:26 <yabo> been a long time since i was worried about filezises lower than 1gb...
Nov 01 20:01:40 <lindi-> yabo: do you have vnc client?
Nov 01 20:01:50 <yabo> no
Nov 01 20:02:00 <yabo> i use putty 
Nov 01 20:02:11 <lindi-> then i can't really demo this realtime for you
Nov 01 20:02:28 <lindi-> (apt-get install xvncviewer but you do not want to do it on your phone :P)
Nov 01 20:03:28 <yabo> the gps stuff
Nov 01 20:03:33 <yabo> i reckon that takes som space
Nov 01 20:03:34 <yabo> some*
Nov 01 20:03:43 <lindi-> yabo: but really, you should get debian experience on a PC
Nov 01 20:04:10 <yabo> ill think about it
Nov 01 20:04:25 <Ke> btw is sshd exclusively bloat for openmoko?
Nov 01 20:05:02 <lindi-> Ke: ?
Nov 01 20:05:04 <mjr> of course not?
Nov 01 20:05:56 <lindi-> xvnc4viewer is not available on arm
Nov 01 20:05:58 <lindi-> very odd
Nov 01 20:06:13 <yabo> lindi- 
Nov 01 20:06:22 <yabo> what is the gps-stuff named?
Nov 01 20:06:29 <lindi-> yabo: which part?
Nov 01 20:06:34 <yabo> the biggest... :-p
Nov 01 20:07:30 <lindi-> yabo: i'm not sure what  you mean
Nov 01 20:07:55 <yabo> I want to remove the gps-software 
Nov 01 20:08:02 <yabo> to free some space
Nov 01 20:08:38 <lindi-> yabo: dpkg -l |grep ^i will list all installed packages
Nov 01 20:09:18 <yabo> ah
Nov 01 20:09:19 <yabo> thanks
Nov 01 20:15:00 <prosoft> Does anyone know how far along bricode has come?
Nov 01 20:34:29 <pooze> ( https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2082 ) ... it says it's fixed...
Nov 01 20:34:49 <pooze> could somebody not as stupid as myself point out to my where I can find the fix?
Nov 01 20:35:39 <pooze> apparently it was fixed 4 days ago.. still I got this issue by updating to the testing repositories ... today?
Nov 01 20:36:21 <yabo> thanks for all your help, lindi-
Nov 01 20:37:32 <yabo> bai
Nov 01 20:40:15 <rysiek|pl> guys, is adding the Angstrom feed to SHR considered safe?
Nov 01 20:44:27 <pooze> *bumping my question* (https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2082) ... in what way is this ticket fixed? the icons missing bug...
Nov 01 20:44:40 <pooze> as far as I can see, it's just reported as fixed with no information on how it is fixed.
Nov 01 20:44:50 <pooze> but I still got this error by updating to testing repos today.
Nov 01 20:47:48 <darkjames> pooze, why you don't ask this question in ticket?
Nov 01 20:48:14 <pooze> how do I do that?
Nov 01 20:48:21 <pooze> do I have access to post there?
Nov 01 20:48:30 <pooze> darkjames: ¯-
Nov 01 20:49:50 <Dave> står til
Nov 01 20:49:51 <darkjames> pooze, just login (or register account and login)
Nov 01 20:51:14 <pooze> darkjames: ah, right.. thanks.. :)
Nov 01 20:58:52 <jonkristian> Signature check failed <- Just ignore those?
Nov 01 21:01:48 <pooze> jonkristian: yes.. there are no signature files
Nov 01 21:04:54 * mwester keeps forgetting to submit the patch to correct the spelling mistakes in opkg.
Nov 01 21:06:41 <jonkristian> I've been searching, however i can't seem to figure out where i should add the media to play with the media player, there's a dotfile .openmoko-mediaplayer however it just contains strange chars.
Nov 01 21:06:53 * Dave hails Mwester
Nov 01 21:07:01 <Dave> mwester, I did that already!
Nov 01 21:07:04 <Dave> They didn't change it :(
Nov 01 21:07:08 <jonkristian> Isn't there a way to add music folder
Nov 01 21:09:53 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r1c92f21334ff 10/README: change README
Nov 01 21:13:52 <mwester> What and where did you submit, Dave?
Nov 01 21:14:03 <mwester> (and were you polite?)
Nov 01 21:14:42 <pooze> jonkristian: never tried the media player.. been too concerned getting the freerunner to surpass my 3310 in functionality (which is to receive calls and smses), but I think I read somewhere that you should place media files on your uSD card folder and it will be automatically detected. Did you try that?
Nov 01 21:15:16 <jonkristian> pooze: i will try
Nov 01 21:16:12 <leinir> Put them into a dir on the µSD named Documents :)
Nov 01 21:16:35 * Dave stuffs leinir into his "Documents"
Nov 01 21:16:48 <leinir> Meep!
Nov 01 21:17:29 <Dave> ;)
Nov 01 21:19:49 <jonkristian> leinir: thanks
Nov 01 21:19:58 <jonkristian> pooze: i can receive incoming calls
Nov 01 21:21:13 <pooze> jonkristian: I have seen a couple of fixes to address my problems... but my primary issue is to get my desktop icons back.
Nov 01 21:21:31 <pooze> then there is this TI calypso thing on bug 1024 I'd like to try... after I get my icons back.
Nov 01 21:22:06 <pooze> as late as yesterday I made 20 test-calls to my FR, and only one of them went through.
Nov 01 21:23:07 <uhsf> sometimes i'm so slow to aknowledge some new device greatness
Nov 01 21:24:10 <uhsf> i can't believe i totally missed to pre-order first batch of the Pandora gp32x gaming device
Nov 01 21:24:44 <uhsf> guess i'm too focused on school these days
Nov 01 21:41:09 <jonkristian> Hm i added .ssh/config with Port 1030 on the fr, because I want to use that instead of 22, however it doesn't seem to work. Any ideas?
Nov 01 21:44:21 <Kamping_Kaiser> jonkristian, dont you need /etc/dropbear.conf?
Nov 01 21:45:07 <pooze> anybody affected by the 2088 bug, not being able to open the settings application?
Nov 01 21:45:32 <pooze> ... in 2008.testing
Nov 01 21:46:11 <jonkristian> Kamping_Kaiser: ah, dropbear, hm, ill see
Nov 01 21:46:44 <jonkristian> I don't have a /etc/dropbear.conf
Nov 01 21:47:10 <Kamping_Kaiser> jonkristian, on the freerunner?
Nov 01 21:47:14 <jonkristian> yeah
Nov 01 21:47:22 <jonkristian> Kamping_Kaiser: 2007.2
Nov 01 21:47:31 <Kamping_Kaiser> hm.
Nov 01 21:47:48 <Kamping_Kaiser> jonkristian, i'll boot my FR up, unless someone beats me to the answer
Nov 01 21:47:57 <jonkristian> :) Cool
Nov 01 21:48:16 <Kamping_Kaiser> iirc its 2007.12, so pretty close
Nov 01 21:48:31 <jonkristian> where would i find this
Nov 01 21:49:44 <Kamping_Kaiser> the image i'm running is a nightly from the day before 2008.08 came out, i thought it was called .12, but could have been wrong
Nov 01 21:54:30 <slalomsk8er> is it normal that the gsm disconnects every few seconds and reconnects a sec later with 2008.9?
Nov 01 21:56:26 <Tig|> slalomsk8er: there is a fix for this that is being rolled out to the new images soon
Nov 01 21:56:55 <Tig|> it was a pita to nail down but the fix is now known
Nov 01 21:57:56 <jonkristian> wow, the sound sucks
Nov 01 21:58:05 <slalomsk8er> can i preroll it or is this to complex?
Nov 01 21:58:18 <Kamping_Kaiser> jonkristian, it might be set in /etc/default/dropbear with DROPBEAR_PORT=xxxxx but since i dont have the filde i'm not sure ;)
Nov 01 21:58:37 * Kamping_Kaiser -> afk
Nov 01 21:58:52 <jonkristian> don't have that file either, sure?
Nov 01 21:59:34 <jonkristian> k
Nov 01 22:11:58 <rysiek|pl> guys, what does opkg error #2 (error parsing config files) mean?
Nov 01 22:12:38 <rysiek|pl> *what* config file might be in question
Nov 01 22:36:34 <rysiek|pl> guys, if I have some ipk packages and I need to make some minor changes (i.e. an icon here and there)
Nov 01 22:37:07 <rysiek|pl> can I just ar x thefile.ipk, tar -xzf data.tar.gz, make the changes, pack data.tar.gz back up and ar -cq all back together?
Nov 01 22:37:19 <rysiek|pl> or do I need some magical bitbake etc.?
Nov 01 22:39:11 <JaMa> Hello, python-etk alone cannot be set to AUTOREV in moko-autorev, because then it depends on Eina_List which isnt in python-evas with REV from sanerevs (EFL_SRCREV)..
Nov 01 23:21:39 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis * r314 10/trunk/python-elementary/ (9 files in 4 dirs): Cleanup folder structure and fix the evas.c_evas.Object error
Nov 01 23:32:16 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis * r315 10/trunk/python-elementary/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Switch to the LGPL license
Nov 02 00:55:44 <rysiek|pl> hmm
Nov 02 00:55:50 <rysiek|pl> does xrandr work on debian?
Nov 02 00:56:21 <Dave> :o
Nov 02 00:56:24 <Dave> doubt it
Nov 02 00:56:42 <rysiek|pl> because?
Nov 02 00:56:45 <rysiek|pl> fbdev?
Nov 02 00:57:11 <d-b> it does.
Nov 02 00:57:34 <rysiek|pl> d-b: well, I have a fresh debian install on my Neo here
Nov 02 00:57:51 <rysiek|pl> and I get X Error of failed request (...)
Nov 02 00:58:11 <rysiek|pl> upon trying to change orientation
Nov 02 00:58:36 <d-b> it should be apt-get installable... --> see the wiki i guess
Nov 02 00:59:03 <rysiek|pl> I have xrandr installed
Nov 02 00:59:16 <rysiek|pl> but it fails miserably upon trying to change the orientation
Nov 02 01:02:44 <Dave> :\
Nov 02 01:08:49 <_charly_> is anyone else using shr and also has a broken enlightenment? error message is "Enlightenment found Evas can't load PNG files. Check Evas has PNG loader support." libevas-loader-png is installed
Nov 02 01:10:59 <rysiek|pl> _charly_: is libpng3 installed?
Nov 02 01:12:36 <_charly_> rysiek|pl: it wasn't, but installing it doesn't fix the problem
Nov 02 01:12:52 <rysiek|pl> I'm out of ideas then, sorry
Nov 02 01:14:37 <_charly_> thanks anyway, maybe the packages are broken? there was an update a few hours ago, after that i had this problem
Nov 02 01:15:29 <raster> likely they are broken
Nov 02 01:15:39 <rysiek|pl> yeah, pro'lly
Nov 02 01:17:16 <Dave> RASTER
Nov 02 01:17:41 <Dave> Are you responsible for all that new stuff on scap? :p
Nov 02 01:17:44 <jonkristian> hm, the qtextended doesn't seem all that stable to me, how is 2008.9 compared to it?
Nov 02 01:18:15 <raster> Dave:  what new stuff?
Nov 02 01:18:40 <Dave> check it out
Nov 02 01:18:54 <Dave> looks like it was pimped out
Nov 02 01:20:46 <raster> kde?
Nov 02 01:22:03 <_charly_> i think i will switch back to fso. with shr also had gps broken (maybe kernel or framework, now i have both from fso)
Nov 02 01:22:46 <Dave> eh
Nov 02 01:22:49 <Dave> it looks like yours
Nov 02 01:23:49 <raster> which ones?
Nov 02 01:24:20 <raster> i guess there are a bunch of illume ones
Nov 02 01:24:28 <raster> ie illume as it is from upstream
Nov 02 01:24:30 <raster> weel e
Nov 02 01:24:34 <raster> as illume is now part of e
Nov 02 01:28:43 <tds> ciao
Nov 02 01:45:15 <_charly_> what kernel of fso-testing is the latest? 2.6.24+r10.1 from 17-oct-2008 or 2.6.24+r10 from 23-oct-2008?
Nov 02 02:02:27 <Sargun> I've officially fueled over 1500 of investment in the FR
Nov 02 02:02:52 <raster> how many did u buy?
Nov 02 02:03:07 <Sargun> I bought 1
Nov 02 02:03:10 <Sargun> and a debug board
Nov 02 02:03:16 <Sargun> I had work buy 3
Nov 02 02:03:31 <Sargun> Only 2 have arrived so far
Nov 02 02:03:39 <Sargun> I really wonder what sales are like
Nov 02 02:03:58 <KenYoung> Me too.
Nov 02 02:04:44 <Sargun> KenYoung, me too to which one?
Nov 02 02:05:10 <KenYoung> I too wonder how many Freerunners have been sold.
Nov 02 02:05:21 <Sargun> ah
Nov 02 02:05:22 <Sargun> eyah
Nov 02 02:06:02 <Sargun> maybe we can get mickey|zzZZzz to tell us. ;-p
Nov 02 02:06:30 <KenYoung> I'm guessing ~10,000.
Nov 02 02:06:39 <Sargun> Wow
Nov 02 02:06:40 <Sargun> that many?
Nov 02 02:06:46 <Sargun> I think 3500
Nov 02 02:06:49 <Sargun> or something
Nov 02 02:07:48 <KenYoung> I remember some OM employee said it was > 5,000 a while ago.
Nov 02 02:08:10 <Sargun> yeah
Nov 02 02:08:17 <Sargun> I'd think so
Nov 02 02:08:26 <Sargun> I mean, there is such a tiny audience. 
Nov 02 02:08:32 <Sargun> (no offense)
Nov 02 02:10:44 <Sargun> Though, the FR can be used from being a sex toy to a monitoring system
Nov 02 02:14:54 <Sargun> isn't that impressive? 
Nov 02 02:15:01 <Sargun> Did I scare everyone away?
Nov 02 02:15:37 <KenYoung> Sargun, Are you developing code for either of those usage cases?
Nov 02 02:15:49 <Sargun> uhm...
Nov 02 02:15:51 <Sargun> uhm...
Nov 02 02:16:06 <Sargun> can I refuse to answer that?
Nov 02 02:16:34 <KenYoung> Sounds kinda closed-source to me.
Nov 02 02:16:42 <Sargun> hehe
Nov 02 02:16:45 <jonkristian> w00t! Only 5,000 ???
Nov 02 02:16:55 <jonkristian> Globally??
Nov 02 02:17:02 <Sargun> we're estimating.
Nov 02 02:17:32 <KenYoung> jonkristian, I'lll bet that's the right number, world wide, within a factor of a few.
Nov 02 02:17:45 <Sargun> KenYoung, are you interested in a vibrator that can be controlled from the other side of the world? 
Nov 02 02:17:54 <jonkristian> :D
Nov 02 02:20:52 <KenYoung> It'll be interesting to see if Koolu actually starts selling Freerunners, because their site is advertising it as an Android phone with no cateats at all about "developers' only" etc.
Nov 02 02:21:15 <KenYoung> ooops caveats, not cateats.
Nov 02 02:21:55 <dns53> they are doing the port i believe now android is open source, i think there are a few other developers trying to port it a well
Nov 02 02:22:54 <KenYoung> dns53, But I suspect they will run into exactly the same suspend/resume, echo, buzz and battery life issues that the OM distributions have.
Nov 02 02:23:31 <dns53> yes, they would be using the same linux kernel just a different set of applications above that
Nov 02 02:25:10 <uhsf> if my OM phone still miss many calls when the Android port is done i also might switch
Nov 02 02:25:38 <KenYoung> uhsf, Switch to what?
Nov 02 02:27:43 <uhsf> to a more stable Android
Nov 02 02:27:56 <uhsf> even if i prefer the OM platform
Nov 02 02:29:13 <jonkristian> Im using qtextended atm, how is compared to 2008.9?
Nov 02 02:30:58 <KenYoung> jonkristian, There seems to be a general consensus that 2008.9 is more sluggish than qtextended.
Nov 02 02:32:45 <jonkristian> KenYoung: ok, been trying to get wlan and bt working, but wlan / wep seems to make it crash
Nov 02 02:32:48 <jonkristian> for now
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Nov 02 02:59:57 2008