**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Nov 02 02:59:57 2008
Nov 02 03:16:22 <cdrum> anyone know how to turn off suspend ijn the daily testing build manually from the terminal? the settings app doesn't load..
Nov 02 06:41:20 <CIA-50> openmoko: 03werner * r4737 10/developers/werner/wlan-spi/patches-tracking/ (27 files in 2 dirs): 
Nov 02 06:41:20 <CIA-50> openmoko: Rebasing and cleanup.
Nov 02 06:41:20 <CIA-50> openmoko: - moved patches that are no longer used to attic/
Nov 02 06:41:20 <CIA-50> openmoko: - removed support for SDIO over hardware-accelerated SPI
Nov 02 06:41:21 <CIA-50> openmoko: - rebased on latest stable-tracking
Nov 02 06:55:38 <slaxxin> my qt extended 4.4.2 has never rang
Nov 02 07:00:18 <dotmef> flashed 4.4.2 today and have received calls
Nov 02 07:00:30 <dotmef> but with crazy feedback :D
Nov 02 08:38:22 <encephalitogenic> http://www.ihateyoujulia.com/?id=5bc1d1661d9c1173c82772dc7af22070
Nov 02 08:42:58 <guruwho> shr-testing doesn't build right now? e-wm-config-illume seems to be missing
Nov 02 08:43:40 <starox__> guruwho: you have to checkout origin/raster in openembedded
Nov 02 08:44:28 <guruwho> starox__: thanks
Nov 02 08:50:33 <guruwho> starox__: any wiki as to where things go?
Nov 02 08:55:19 <starox__> guruwho: No. I just try to build it yesterday and have the same trouble. Ainulindale helped me.
Nov 02 09:05:02 <quickdev> starox__, we will change the build process a bit today/tomorrow, because the current one doesn't get all recent e changes
Nov 02 09:07:31 <starox__> quickdev: good ! I will test it asap. My build failed yesterday, but I wasn't sure if it was my fault.
Nov 02 09:08:19 <quickdev> starox__, it wasn't! :)
Nov 02 09:42:34 <tato> hi
Nov 02 09:43:41 <CIA-50> openmoko: 03werner * r4738 10/developers/werner/wlan-spi/patches-tracking/ (gta02-mmc-mci.patch hif-linux-sdio.patch): (log message trimmed)
Nov 02 09:43:41 <CIA-50> openmoko: Cleanup.
Nov 02 09:43:41 <CIA-50> openmoko: drivers/ar6000/hif/hif2.c:
Nov 02 09:43:41 <CIA-50> openmoko: - MODULE_LICENSE is GPLv2, not just GPL
Nov 02 09:43:41 <CIA-50> openmoko: - added cleanup after initialization errors
Nov 02 09:43:45 <CIA-50> openmoko: - added partial cleanup on removal
Nov 02 09:43:47 <CIA-50> openmoko: - removed solved/obsolete problems from list of known bugs
Nov 02 09:47:00 <CIA-50> openmoko: 03werner * r4739 10/developers/werner/wlan-spi/patches-tracking/hif-linux-sdio.patch: 
Nov 02 09:47:00 <CIA-50> openmoko: More cleanup. Separate commit since this moves a lot of code but doesn't
Nov 02 09:47:00 <CIA-50> openmoko: change any functionality.
Nov 02 09:47:00 <CIA-50> openmoko: drivers/ar6000/hif/hif2.c:
Nov 02 09:47:00 <CIA-50> openmoko: - moved HIF setup/takedown code closer down, where its Linux counterpart is
Nov 02 09:49:51 <dns53> hi tato
Nov 02 09:52:37 <raster> starox__: dont bother with that branch. i can't seem to commit to it or update it
Nov 02 11:06:13 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis * r316 10/trunk/python-elementary/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Add more widgets
Nov 02 11:26:03 <admiral0> hi
Nov 02 11:26:13 <admiral0> is there illume for debian?
Nov 02 11:54:37 <lindi-> amarsh04: nope
Nov 02 12:37:50 <frank0> Does anyone know if neo freerunner ever will get a cam and 3G support?
Nov 02 12:38:31 <lindi-> frank0: i don't think gta03 will be called freerunner
Nov 02 12:39:07 <frank0> lindi-: ?
Nov 02 12:39:19 <lindi-> frank0: freerunner = gta02?
Nov 02 12:39:22 <tomboy64> frank0: i don't think gta03 will get 3g support. a cam is also unlikely.
Nov 02 12:39:33 <tomboy64> but possible
Nov 02 12:39:38 <frank0> tomboy64: okey, :(
Nov 02 12:39:54 <lindi-> frank0: http://lindi.iki.fi/lindi/openmoko/3gnettitikku1.jpg is your 3G
Nov 02 12:40:23 <tomboy64> frank0: oh, a camera is planned.
Nov 02 12:40:29 <frank0> tomboy64: oh it is? =)
Nov 02 12:40:31 <frank0> lindi-: lulz
Nov 02 12:40:32 <tomboy64> frank0: and at least edge should be supported then.
Nov 02 12:40:38 <frank0> yea
Nov 02 12:42:22 <tomboy64> frank0: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA03
Nov 02 12:42:27 <Shlee> frank0: Read the wiki for the revisional roadmap
Nov 02 12:46:57 <frank0> looks like im going to wait for GTA03 comes out
Nov 02 12:50:20 <tomboy64> :)
Nov 02 12:50:37 <tomboy64> frank0: wait for a stable os would be my recommendation
Nov 02 12:50:45 <tomboy64> so far that's the main issue
Nov 02 12:50:53 <tomboy64> the hardware is fine, the software not so
Nov 02 12:50:54 <Ke> !
Nov 02 12:50:55 <frank0> that + camera
Nov 02 12:51:13 <tomboy64> what does a cell need a cam for :-|
Nov 02 12:52:00 <mjr> 'cause everyone else has one too
Nov 02 12:52:17 <balrog> Openmoko Bug #2104: Morse code announcing who is calling or texting
Nov 02 12:52:19 <balrog> heh
Nov 02 12:52:40 <baze> a faster mobile connection and a better graphics chip than the glamo are thing i'm looking forward to. camera is not that important
Nov 02 12:52:49 <tomboy64> balrog: wtf?
Nov 02 12:52:56 <baze> and the case shouldn't be that thick
Nov 02 12:53:10 <tomboy64> baze: the case is actually not that thick after all
Nov 02 12:53:16 <baze> maybe
Nov 02 12:53:22 <baze> it just looks like it
Nov 02 12:53:33 <baze> never had a freerunner in my own hands, so maybe it's not that bad
Nov 02 12:54:02 <leinir> It's not that bad, really, it feels nice and solid rather than fat :)
Nov 02 12:54:05 <baze> the screen size looks ok too, imho. just the bevel sucks imho
Nov 02 12:54:14 <leinir> Not sure how to explain that, that's just how it feels to me :)
Nov 02 12:54:17 <DocScrutinizer2> balrog: you're kidding, no? ;-D
Nov 02 12:54:18 <baze> -1 imho o_0
Nov 02 12:54:45 <leinir> Notice the difference between fat and solid there ;)
Nov 02 12:54:57 <balrog> i'm afraid i'm not kidding this time :p
Nov 02 12:55:01 <leinir> The iPhone just feels flimsy to me :)
Nov 02 12:55:19 <leinir> The bevel, yes, that's kind of annoying, it *could* be somewhat smaller :)
Nov 02 12:55:56 <baze> hopefully that's something they won't repeat with 03
Nov 02 12:56:03 <frank0> 13:50:52   tomboy64 >> what does a cell need a cam for :-| <> Because i use the cam
Nov 02 12:56:12 <tomboy64> what for?
Nov 02 12:56:19 <leinir> tomboy64: For example for reading 2D barcodes :)
Nov 02 12:56:47 <tomboy64> that might be a valid reason
Nov 02 12:56:51 <tomboy64> but about the only one
Nov 02 12:57:05 <frank0> take pictures with it ofcouse
Nov 02 12:57:06 <leinir> They're becoming uqitutous here in Denmark... They show up in more and more places :)
Nov 02 12:57:14 <frank0> i take pictures of landsscapes, cars etc
Nov 02 12:57:16 <frank0> with the phone i gots now
Nov 02 12:57:22 <frank0> when i dont have my camera with me
Nov 02 12:57:26 <leinir> Scanning business cards
Nov 02 12:57:35 <leinir> Take picture of the person you just added to your contact list
Nov 02 12:57:40 <tomboy64> mhm ... business cards
Nov 02 12:57:43 <tomboy64> good idea
Nov 02 12:58:37 <frank0> leinir: yup
Nov 02 12:59:07 <DocScrutinizer> balrog:  .--  -  ..-.  ..--..    ..---  .----  -----  ....-    ...  ..-  -.-.  -.-  ...    ...-.- 
Nov 02 12:59:51 <baze> i just hope that gta03 won't have a smaller screen...
Nov 02 13:00:11 <leinir> tomboy64: You see, this is stuff that works for others, very valid uses for a camera in a mobile phone that have been highlighted to me by numerous others when looking at it... "Why doesn't it have a camera, I wanted to write <software concept which makes use of camera> for it!"
Nov 02 13:00:44 <frank0> lulz
Nov 02 13:01:06 <frank0> but
Nov 02 13:01:09 <frank0> for the price it comes for
Nov 02 13:01:12 <tomboy64> leinir: i'd rather have working mms-support/gprs/bluetooth headset before the camera :)
Nov 02 13:01:16 <frank0> you can buy a brand new nokia or sony ericson
Nov 02 13:01:21 <frank0> with camera,3g etc
Nov 02 13:01:45 <leinir> tomboy64: That's software, not hardware... and these people won't be writing that stuff, because they aren't interested ;)
Nov 02 13:02:00 <leinir> Welcome to OpenSource, the most selfish development methodology in the world ;)
Nov 02 13:02:09 <tomboy64> ^^
Nov 02 13:02:31 <DocScrutinizer> frank0: OM surely can't compete in price with a phone that's built on 100* larger numbers and doesn't care to use open chips
Nov 02 13:02:37 <ulf> tomboy64: i have gprs running with om2008.9 
Nov 02 13:02:53 <ulf> tomboy64: follow this link http://freeyourphone.de/portal_v1/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=295
Nov 02 13:03:04 <CIA-50> openmoko: 03werner * r4740 10/developers/werner/wlan-spi/patches-tracking/ (hif-linux-sdio.patch sdio-add-atheros-ar6k.patch series): (log message trimmed)
Nov 02 13:03:04 <CIA-50> openmoko: More cleanup. Make the ar6k driver work as a module.
Nov 02 13:03:04 <CIA-50> openmoko: sdio-add-atheros-ar6k.patch:
Nov 02 13:03:04 <CIA-50> openmoko: - moved Atheros and AR6k SDIO IDs to include/linux/mmc/sdio_ids.h
Nov 02 13:03:04 <CIA-50> openmoko: drivers/ar6000/hif/hif2.c:
Nov 02 13:03:08 <CIA-50> openmoko: - explain why we can't make the io thread TASK_UNINTERRUPTIBLE
Nov 02 13:03:10 <CIA-50> openmoko: - upon removal, wait for the request queue to drain
Nov 02 13:03:27 <tomboy64> ulf: i don't want it simply running, i want a gui along with it
Nov 02 13:03:57 <balrog> ---  --  --.
Nov 02 13:03:57 <tomboy64> ulf: and i've been there. failed at getting the muxer done for shr
Nov 02 13:04:06 <frank0> 596.77600 U.S. dollars 
Nov 02 13:04:09 <muxe> uh highlight ^^
Nov 02 13:04:12 <jonkristian> What are most of you guys running now, 2008.8 or 2008.9?
Nov 02 13:04:13 <ulf> tomboy64: there is gui with it where you can activate and deactivate it, i have it
Nov 02 13:04:13 <frank0> will the phone cost for me
Nov 02 13:04:23 <balrog> DocScrutinizer: ^.^
Nov 02 13:04:25 <tomboy64> muxe: your fault, i'd say :)
Nov 02 13:04:31 <muxe> ;)
Nov 02 13:04:43 <tomboy64> ulf: i read it
Nov 02 13:04:58 <tomboy64> right now i want to get shr ready and working before i do more experimenting
Nov 02 13:08:17 <jonkristian> For the freerunner, which of these should i get? http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Om2008.9/ Om2008.9-gta02-20080916.rootfs.jffs2 or Om2008.9.rootfs.jffs2 ?
Nov 02 13:10:12 <ulf> jonkristian: depends what you want do do, installing on SD or flashing on internal flash?
Nov 02 13:10:43 <ulf> jonkristian: ah no, sorry, the files you showed are the same
Nov 02 13:11:05 <jonkristian> ulf: I have qt-extended, but now i want to test the latest/greatest:)
Nov 02 13:11:17 <jonkristian> So booting from sd:)
Nov 02 13:11:46 <ulf> jonkristian: then i would say you want the .tar.gz files not jffs2
Nov 02 13:12:40 <jonkristian> ulf: i have to flash the uimage to get etx2 on the sd, right?
Nov 02 13:12:54 <ulf> jonkristian: otherwise you have to create the tar.gz files from the .jffs2 file, you could leave the step away if you directly download the .tar.gz
Nov 02 13:13:15 <jonkristian> i see
Nov 02 13:13:27 <ulf> no, if you want to install om on SD you don't need to flash anything
Nov 02 13:13:48 <jonkristian> ulf: ok, sorry, i thought uImage was the bootloader
Nov 02 13:15:04 <jonkristian> But should i flash u-boot then, to get it to boot ext2
Nov 02 13:15:44 <ulf> jonkristian: you can also format the first patition as vfat
Nov 02 13:15:50 <ulf> jonkristian: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD 
Nov 02 13:16:07 <ulf> jonkristian: start at Prepare the SD card 
Nov 02 13:16:27 <jonkristian> Yeah, that's the one im looking at
Nov 02 13:17:03 <jonkristian> However, better to flash now, and get it overwith, than to always have to take in measures that the bootloader doesn't support ext2
Nov 02 13:18:17 <ulf> jonkristian: ok, thats the way i choose too
Nov 02 13:18:33 <jonkristian> where would i find the latest uboot anyways?
Nov 02 13:19:15 <ulf> jonkristian: i would look at the stable releases at the distributon page on the buttom
Nov 02 13:19:35 <DocScrutinizer> http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Om2008.9/Om2008.9-gta02-20080916.uImage.bin ?
Nov 02 13:19:48 <jonkristian> is that stable?
Nov 02 13:19:50 <ulf> jonkristian: here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions#Images
Nov 02 13:20:45 <jonkristian> oh, cool, thanks ulf
Nov 02 13:22:29 <jonkristian> ulf: you on 2008.9 ?
Nov 02 13:22:59 <ulf> jonkristian: yes
Nov 02 13:23:31 <ulf> i also tested 2008.8 but changed back to 2008.9
Nov 02 13:23:48 <jonkristian> That's the one im trying too, i flashed qt-extended last night, however it got it's limitations.
Nov 02 13:25:42 <ulf> i have qte4.4.2 on the phone and om2008.9 on sd and i have another sd with debian
Nov 02 13:26:27 <ulf> jonkristian: at the moment i'm trying to get my usb keyboard running under om2008.9 
Nov 02 13:26:45 <ulf> jonkristian: which works with debian
Nov 02 13:28:07 <ulf> if someone would give me a hint what i need to do to get my usb keyboard running with om2008.9 i would be happy
Nov 02 13:30:07 <jonkristian> ulf: no idea, i just got my fr. I saw something regarding bt keyboards but can't remember where.
Nov 02 13:30:11 <jonkristian> bbs
Nov 02 13:46:36 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * rbf385727c1f5 10/fsod/src/subsystems/Python/ (9 files in 2 dirs): 
Nov 02 13:46:36 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: 1.) Add fsod bindings
Nov 02 13:46:36 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: 2.) Pass the service object to the factory
Nov 02 13:46:36 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org:  TODO: find a way to extract the bus object and pass it on the DBus objects to be exported
Nov 02 13:46:39 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: 3.) More error checking in the plugin manager
Nov 02 13:46:41 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r9ab5e9884839 10/fsod/ (8 files in 5 dirs): 
Nov 02 13:46:44 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: 1.) Add main.vala
Nov 02 13:46:46 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: 2.) create a new convenience library for service (Should this be a dynamically loaded object instead)
Nov 02 13:53:25 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r8212e7377736 10/framework/subsystems/odeviced/pyglet/ (linux.py linux_const.py): odeviced: enhance linux input system support
Nov 02 13:53:25 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r903152ab0efd 10/ (ChangeLog framework/controller.py framework/frameworkd): 
Nov 02 13:53:25 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: * remove option parsing out of controller, into frameworkd
Nov 02 13:53:25 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: * add command line option for profiling with the python-hotshot profiler
Nov 02 13:53:27 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * re8c255cd774e 10/ (ChangeLog framework/frameworkd framework/lsprofcalltree.py): 
Nov 02 13:53:30 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: use cProfile to profile and import http://www.gnome.org/~johan/lsprofcalltree.py,
Nov 02 13:53:32 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: that way we can view our profile output in kCacheGrind
Nov 02 14:03:31 <jonkristian> ulf: u there?
Nov 02 14:03:52 <ulf> jonkristian: yes
Nov 02 14:05:06 <jonkristian> When i do grep  Bootloader /dev/mtdblock0
Nov 02 14:05:09 <CIA-50> openmoko: 03werner * r4741 10/developers/werner/wlan-spi/patches-tracking/ (gta02-mmc-mci.patch hif-linux-sdio.patch series): (log message trimmed)
Nov 02 14:05:09 <CIA-50> openmoko: Yet more cleanup. Avoid the traps that break module unloading.
Nov 02 14:05:09 <CIA-50> openmoko: drivers/ar6000/hif/hif2.c:
Nov 02 14:05:09 <CIA-50> openmoko: - removed MODULE_LICENSE since it's already in ar6000_drv.c
Nov 02 14:05:09 <CIA-50> openmoko: - removed MODULE_AUTHOR since I'm only to blame for a tiny fraction of the code
Nov 02 14:05:13 <CIA-50> openmoko:  in the module :-)
Nov 02 14:05:15 <CIA-50> openmoko: - HIFShutDownDevice: don't use the trojan "hif" NULL pointer ...
Nov 02 14:05:20 <jonkristian> I get Neo1973 Bootloader U-Boot 1.3.2-moko12
Nov 02 14:05:29 <jonkristian> Is that correct, for the latest stable of fr?
Nov 02 14:07:55 <ulf> jonkristian: yes, i get the same and i boots ;o)
Nov 02 14:08:11 <ulf> jonkristian: s/i/it/
Nov 02 14:08:17 <jonkristian> ok, thanks for checking
Nov 02 14:08:36 <jonkristian> I just rebooted from nand to make sure it got all changes or whatever, hehe.
Nov 02 14:16:55 <jonkristian> ulf: using ext2 on SD?
Nov 02 14:17:17 <jonkristian> It's faster than fat i assume
Nov 02 14:22:30 <ulf> jonkristian: i have 2 partitions on sd, the first is ext2 with the uImage.bin and the second is the rootfs i formated it with ext3 but in the boot messages i saw that it gets always mounted as ext2
Nov 02 14:27:30 <kd8ikt> default u-boot env?
Nov 02 14:49:37 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07stabilization/milestone4 * rf91653eebf87 10framework/framework/subsystems/odeviced/kernel26.py: odeviced: initial status for every LED is 'off'
Nov 02 14:49:38 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07stabilization/milestone4 * r69ac1421799f 10framework/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/ti_calypso/modem.py: ogsmd: [TI CALYPSO]: shutdown modem on close() call
Nov 02 14:49:47 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r097f027ec809 10/framework/subsystems/ (odeviced/kernel26.py ogsmd/modems/ti_calypso/modem.py): Merge commit 'origin/stabilization/milestone4'
Nov 02 14:50:08 <Zorkman> anyone tested the qtopia 4.4.2??
Nov 02 14:50:14 <Zorkman> is the bouncing calypso bug fixed?
Nov 02 14:51:06 <slaxxin> yes it is
Nov 02 14:51:18 <Zorkman> and does it work? :)
Nov 02 14:51:35 <lindi-> slaxxin: i thought it was only a workaround and increased power consuption?
Nov 02 14:51:41 <slaxxin> an its supposed to be fixed is 2008.9 testing jffs2 image
Nov 02 14:52:03 <slaxxin> well i dont see that [roblem
Nov 02 14:52:30 <slaxxin> i have no testing equip though
Nov 02 14:52:47 <slaxxin> my ringer dont work
Nov 02 14:53:01 <Zorkman> lindi-: yes, basically it's just an AT command, so that prevents deep sleep i think, so not a real sollution
Nov 02 14:53:06 <Zorkman> have you any idea of the impact on battery life?
Nov 02 14:53:23 <slaxxin>  blue tooth dont work although 4.1.1 bluetooth worked great
Nov 02 14:54:10 <slaxxin> my 4.4.2 goes to suspend,wakes up an has no reregistering bug
Nov 02 14:54:41 <Zorkman> slaxxin: and resume from call also works? heard someone on the ML who said it didn't
Nov 02 14:55:15 <slaxxin> u mean recieve a call while in suspend?
Nov 02 14:55:40 <Zorkman> yes, and if the phone wakes up in  time and plays the ringtone to answer the phone
Nov 02 14:55:59 <slaxxin> i have no ring at all
Nov 02 14:56:31 <slaxxin> yes it did work
Nov 02 14:56:46 <slaxxin>   i only get vibrate
Nov 02 14:57:03 <Zorkman> is that the way you chose it to be? or is it a bug?
Nov 02 15:03:54 <slaxxin> its a bug
Nov 02 15:04:08 <slaxxin> i cant make the ringer come on
Nov 02 15:04:12 <ulf> jonkrist1an: ha, usb keyboard works, now i need to change the layout to german ;o)
Nov 02 15:04:34 <ulf> slaxxin: with qte 4.4.2?
Nov 02 15:05:08 <ulf> slaxxin: for me the freerunner rings with qte 4.4.2
Nov 02 15:05:36 <dario__> hi everyone, i'd like to extract a file from a backup jffs2 image, can anyone explain me how to do that?
Nov 02 15:06:04 <ulf> dario__: mount it than you can cd into the filesystem
Nov 02 15:06:33 <slaxxin> 4.4.2
Nov 02 15:07:05 <dario__> ulf mount -t auto *.jffs2 /dir/ is working ?
Nov 02 15:07:07 <slaxxin> maybe i need to md5sum it
Nov 02 15:07:17 <ulf> dario__: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Userspace_root_image#Mounting_the_JFFS2_image_on_a_loopback_device_.28Kernel_Memory_MTD_Emulation.29
Nov 02 15:07:56 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * ra8d607e8c217 10/docs/ogsmd/ti_calypso/modem: docs: update calypso docs with some new (hard to believe) issues
Nov 02 15:07:56 <dario__> ulf: i looked at that page, but i haven't understood
Nov 02 15:08:46 <ulf> dario__: i used the script http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/8/82/Mntjffs.sh and works without problems for me
Nov 02 15:08:54 <laen> Hmmm i might be forgetting a step. Just put a clean rootfs of OM 2008.9 on it, connected with USB, set the sysctl ipv4 forward, and put the nameserver's in the neo's resolv.conf, ad it still can't resolve.. anyone?
Nov 02 15:09:27 <ulf> laen: can you ping the nameservers address?
Nov 02 15:09:34 <dario__> ulf: i'll try it without knowing what i am doing, then :)
Nov 02 15:09:44 <laen> ulf: nope.
Nov 02 15:10:02 <laen> I can ping the whole lan though, but nothing on the wan
Nov 02 15:10:06 <ulf> laen: then, how should it resolv anything?
Nov 02 15:10:20 <ulf> laen: nat is missing on the pc 
Nov 02 15:10:33 <ulf> laen: or wrong configured
Nov 02 15:10:34 <laen> Offcourse it won't, but i'm trying to figure out what happened cause nothing changed on the p :)
Nov 02 15:11:04 <jonkristian> Alright, im here, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD i got ext2 for boot and kernel, i followed Boot entry for ext2 kernel+ext2 rootfs partitions: (requires newer u-boot) , however i don't see a new entry like this, any ideas?
Nov 02 15:11:28 <ulf> laen: do you add iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -j MASQUERADE -s 192.168.0.0/24 to you pc?
Nov 02 15:11:29 <jonkristian> and ofcourse, i did a printenv which showed my entry correctly and saveenv
Nov 02 15:11:46 <laen> ulf: no iptables on this pc
Nov 02 15:11:48 <Zorkman> jonkristian: maybe you are booting into NOR in stead of NAND?
Nov 02 15:12:01 <jonkristian> Zorkman: I think i am
Nov 02 15:12:05 <jonkristian> Zorkman: how to go NAND?
Nov 02 15:12:17 <Zorkman> hold AUX and then POWER
Nov 02 15:12:22 <Zorkman> i mean hold power and then aux
Nov 02 15:12:23 <Zorkman> sorry
Nov 02 15:12:25 <jonkristian> hm, that's what i did
Nov 02 15:12:26 <jonkristian> ah
Nov 02 15:12:28 <jonkristian> cool
Nov 02 15:12:42 <jonkristian> sweet, hope this works:D
Nov 02 15:12:45 <ulf> jonkristian: depends what you press first 
Nov 02 15:12:49 <d-b> press and hold aux then press power.
Nov 02 15:12:51 <d-b> :)
Nov 02 15:12:53 <jonkristian> yeah, i didn't know that, thanks
Nov 02 15:13:20 <Zorkman> the  NOR is your fail-safe u-boot, in case you screw your NAND
Nov 02 15:13:39 <jonkristian> hm, i press power and then aux, nothing happens
Nov 02 15:13:49 <jonkristian> i get a small noise from the speakr
Nov 02 15:14:03 <Zorkman> you have to wait a while
Nov 02 15:14:13 <Zorkman> the sound is comming from a capacitator discharging i think
Nov 02 15:14:33 <Zorkman> prow and hold power, then press and hold aux, wait 5-10sec and it will come up
Nov 02 15:14:34 <ulf> jonkristian: here is a link to the NAND N
Nov 02 15:14:39 <ulf> OR http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_the_Neo_FreeRunner
Nov 02 15:14:46 <jonkristian> does it go directly into kernel boothing?
Nov 02 15:15:35 <Zorkman> jonkristian: no it will boot up (your modified) u-boot
Nov 02 15:15:56 <jonkristian> ok, i think i didn't hold the aux long enough, it booted flash img
Nov 02 15:16:12 <jonkristian> anyways, ill try again, if something is wrong though, will i get a notice, or will it just not work?
Nov 02 15:17:15 <Zorkman> i don't know
Nov 02 15:17:50 <laen> ulf: Ah, found it, had IP masquerading turned off. Thanks though :)
Nov 02 15:18:44 <jonkristian> hm, i got into nand, however the only entries i see are Boot at the top, and Boot from FAT
Nov 02 15:19:54 <Zorkman> you can 1) reflash/update your u-boot  or 2) edit it manually again
Nov 02 15:19:54 <jonkristian> ah, i did the setenv stuff in NOR
Nov 02 15:20:06 <Zorkman> jonkristian: did you update your u-boot first?
Nov 02 15:20:09 <jonkristian> Zorkman: yeah
Nov 02 15:20:14 <ulf> jonkristian: i thing boot from fat is now able to boot from ext2
Nov 02 15:20:18 <Zorkman> k, then just re-edit them in nand
Nov 02 15:20:28 <ulf> jonkristian: it's just the name of the entry
Nov 02 15:20:55 <ulf> jonkristian: there are scripts and doku on openmoko how to edit NAND entrys
Nov 02 15:21:03 <jonkristian> ulf: i am booting from ext2
Nov 02 15:21:15 <ulf> jonkristian: so it works
Nov 02 15:21:19 <jonkristian> ulf: no
Nov 02 15:21:36 <jonkristian> I mean, that's what im setting up, ext2, not fat
Nov 02 15:21:42 <jonkristian> ulf: are you booting from fat?
Nov 02 15:21:58 <ulf> jonkristian: no from ext2
Nov 02 15:22:11 <jonkristian> ulf: and you didn't have to add any entries?
Nov 02 15:22:36 <ulf> jonkristian: i used i script which changes the NAND entry's
Nov 02 15:22:48 <ulf> jonkristian: wait i will have a look
Nov 02 15:23:46 <jonkristian> Ok, thanks. Btw, since I did this in NOR instead of NAND, is there a way to reset that entry, i didn't see it though.
Nov 02 15:24:45 <Zorkman> jonkristian: you can't write to NOR, not withouth a debug board
Nov 02 15:25:00 <jonkristian> Zorkman: ok, so no harm done:)
Nov 02 15:25:38 <ulf> jonkristian: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianOnFreeRunner -> start reading at "Adjusting your uBoot environment" i used the script configure-uboot.sh from there
Nov 02 15:25:45 <jonkristian> I got this when logging in to tty, Unrecognized hardware revision 0x305. Defaulting to GTA02v6.
Nov 02 15:25:53 <jonkristian> Anything I should care about?
Nov 02 15:26:03 <jonkristian> ulf: thanks:)
Nov 02 15:30:23 <jonkristian> sweet
Nov 02 15:30:44 <jonkristian> It's working:) Thanks guys, i appreciate helping me out!
Nov 02 15:31:10 <ulf> np :o)
Nov 02 15:58:58 <jonkristian> Hm
Nov 02 15:58:59 <jonkristian> root@om-gta02:~# opkg install qtopia-phone-x11-mediaplayer
Nov 02 15:59:00 <jonkristian> Collected errors: * Could not obtain administrative lock
Nov 02 15:59:04 <jonkristian> Any ideas?
Nov 02 15:59:13 <jonkristian> ssh'ing to the phone via usb
Nov 02 15:59:33 <nio_> maybe another opkg process is running?
Nov 02 15:59:52 <darkjames> kill packagekitd
Nov 02 15:59:57 <jonkristian> ah
Nov 02 16:00:02 <jonkristian> got it, thanks:)
Nov 02 16:03:45 <christophe> Hi !
Nov 02 16:04:00 <nio_> Hello!
Nov 02 16:04:29 <christophe> i have an issue when trying to bitbake qt4-x11-free
Nov 02 16:05:18 <christophe> it's with the glib : it can't find the libatomic.la
Nov 02 16:05:31 <christophe> is somebody able to help me ?
Nov 02 16:12:24 <nio_> Sorry, I've no clue.
Nov 02 16:15:49 <christophe> ok tks
Nov 02 16:19:13 <jonkristian> hm, phone just blacks after a while
Nov 02 16:25:19 <Dave> hehe
Nov 02 16:26:55 <Dave> Holy snap, it's 8:30!
Nov 02 16:27:06 <Dave> hooray for timehax
Nov 02 16:27:08 <Tm_T> it's not
Nov 02 16:27:17 <Tm_T> 1826.55 < Dave> Holy snap, it's 8:30!
Nov 02 16:27:19 <Tm_T> ;--P
Nov 02 16:27:24 <Dave> o_O
Nov 02 16:27:35 <Dave> man, what craaaaaaaaazy country do YOU live in? :P
Nov 02 16:27:41 <Dave> austria?
Nov 02 16:27:45 <Tm_T> nope
Nov 02 16:27:52 <Dave> farthere?
Nov 02 16:28:02 <Tm_T> behind Snowy Mountains
Nov 02 16:28:08 <Dave> :DD
Nov 02 16:28:09 <Tm_T> aka "eastern Finland"
Nov 02 16:28:17 <Dave> :O
Nov 02 16:29:18 <Dave> Suomi!?
Nov 02 16:29:41 <Tm_T> Dave: Suomi indeed
Nov 02 16:29:49 <Dave> :DDD
Nov 02 16:30:00 <Dave> mitä kuuluu?
Nov 02 16:30:00 <Tm_T> and in the most eastern part of it
Nov 02 16:30:06 <Tm_T> hyvää kuuluu, kiitos
Nov 02 16:30:11 <Dave> :D
Nov 02 16:30:22 <Dave> ole hyvä
Nov 02 16:30:38 <Tm_T> miten itsellänne on pullat uunissa?
Nov 02 16:31:29 <Dave> I don't know that much, Tmt :P
Nov 02 16:31:53 <Tm_T> heh, a bit tricky way to ask "how's it going?"
Nov 02 16:31:57 <Dave> Just some expressions and basic grammar
Nov 02 16:32:01 <Dave> ah :D
Nov 02 16:32:03 <Tm_T> heh
Nov 02 16:32:13 <Dave> honestly, the grammar is confusing enough :D
Nov 02 16:32:15 <Tm_T> "how is your bums in oven?"
Nov 02 16:32:19 <Tm_T> I can imagine
Nov 02 16:32:21 <Dave> rofl :D
Nov 02 16:33:13 <Dave> Pidätkö oluesta?
Nov 02 16:33:28 <Tm_T> vain hyvästä, pieninä annoksina
Nov 02 16:33:40 <Dave> :D
Nov 02 16:33:56 <Dave> cool
Nov 02 16:34:41 <Dave> rakastan norjalaisia :p
Nov 02 16:35:22 <Tm_T> ok that was a bit too much for me, I need coffee ->
Nov 02 16:35:34 <Dave> ¬_¬
Nov 02 16:35:35 <Tm_T> (;)
Nov 02 16:39:16 <jonkristian> If i boot 2008.9 from sd card, do i also have to install packages to that card for them to work, like browsers etc...?
Nov 02 16:42:05 <Dave> uhh, probably :D
Nov 02 16:42:18 <jonkristian> nvmnd, it worked
Nov 02 16:42:19 <jonkristian> :)
Nov 02 16:42:21 <Dave> In other news... DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM.
Nov 02 16:42:31 <Tm_T> Dave: Doom2 ?!
Nov 02 16:42:37 <Dave> DOOM
Nov 02 16:42:49 <Tm_T> bah
Nov 02 16:43:07 <hama_> openarena? ;)
Nov 02 16:43:14 <Dave> openpandora? :D
Nov 02 16:43:20 <Dave> qwtf? :D
Nov 02 16:43:24 * Tm_T still has doom door opening sound ringing in his head
Nov 02 16:43:32 <Dave> :P
Nov 02 16:43:34 <Tm_T> his/her/its
Nov 02 16:43:55 <Dave> o_O
Nov 02 16:44:08 <hama_> want it dontopenpandora?
Nov 02 16:44:12 <hama_> wasnt
Nov 02 16:54:41 <Dave> haha
Nov 02 16:54:45 <Dave> tell that to raster, hama ;p
Nov 02 16:56:19 <chaos_> hi!
Nov 02 16:57:35 <chaos_> can anybody help me please with my keyboard?! ... i installed the illume keyboard and also the matchbox keyboard, but after some hours om always switches back to the default keyboard and i can't access any other keyboard
Nov 02 16:58:37 <Dave> o_O
Nov 02 16:58:47 <Dave> did you first make sure to remove whatever the default keyboard was?
Nov 02 16:59:46 <chaos_> i did the following command: "opkg remove -force-depends multitap-pad" and it said: "No package removed."
Nov 02 17:02:14 <Dave> hmmm
Nov 02 17:02:15 <chaos_> any idea?
Nov 02 17:02:56 <chaos_> when i restart the x server, it works for several hours (switching to terminal keyboard)
Nov 02 17:04:47 <Dave> hmm
Nov 02 17:05:00 <Dave> but then everytime it resets, the old keyboard somehow returns? o_O
Nov 02 17:05:45 <chaos_> yes
Nov 02 17:06:25 <Dave> Weird
Nov 02 17:06:33 <Dave> Is this 2008.9?
Nov 02 17:08:45 <chaos_> yes it is
Nov 02 17:16:16 <laen> Is there anything known that when you try to start eth0 with wpa_supplicant configured in /etc/network/interfaces, the freerunner hangs?
Nov 02 17:17:20 <Dave> hmm
Nov 02 17:17:48 <laen> After the IOCTL messages, it stalls and gotta remove the battery.
Nov 02 17:19:27 <Dave> holy shit
Nov 02 17:19:30 <Dave> :z
Nov 02 17:19:31 <Dave> :x
Nov 02 17:20:19 <laen> ?
Nov 02 17:24:36 <CIA-50> openmoko: 03werner * r4742 10/developers/werner/bin/authorize-me: authorize-me: set up a Neo to accept password-less login over SSH.
Nov 02 17:35:36 <lindi-> sound scary )
Nov 02 17:46:39 <Dave> Viruses
Nov 02 17:48:39 <guruwho> needs some vitamin C
Nov 02 17:48:45 <guruwho> or perhaps c++
Nov 02 17:49:10 <guruwho> (less bugs)
Nov 02 17:49:19 <Dave> More C++ please.
Nov 02 17:52:32 <laen> Oh ffs, the freerunner freezes every 5 minutes with Om2008.9, how can anyone work with that.
Nov 02 17:53:03 <Dave> You can't! :D
Nov 02 17:53:06 <lindi-> laen: freezes in what way?
Nov 02 17:53:14 <Dave> apparently hard.
Nov 02 17:53:22 <Dave> He said he has to remove the battery.
Nov 02 17:53:36 <lindi-> laen: backlight? ping?
Nov 02 17:53:50 <laen> lindi-: as in, the screen is there, butno interaction possible, no connection through usb possible anymore.. AUX turns red. And unpingable.
Nov 02 17:54:33 <laen> And that happens when i try to start eth0, when i do something in illume-config configuration menu..
Nov 02 17:54:45 <laen> And sometimes completely at random.
Nov 02 17:55:10 <laen> And sometimes even at startup when it tries to start the X server.
Nov 02 17:55:13 <laen> Like now.
Nov 02 17:55:14 <lindi-> laen: turns red but does not blink?
Nov 02 17:55:23 <laen> Doesn't blink indeed.
Nov 02 17:56:01 <lindi-> laen: if you stop X can you reproduce it? without X you might see some errors on the screen
Nov 02 17:56:33 <Dave> :)
Nov 02 17:56:33 <laen> Gonna do more without X now indeed. Who knows.
Nov 02 17:56:49 <Dave> lindi, like starting eth0 without X? :)
Nov 02 17:56:57 <lindi-> Dave: ?
Nov 02 17:57:18 <laen> Dave: Well, starting eth0 through usb is bad too, since usb0 and eth0 up together hangs it too.
Nov 02 17:57:25 <laen> But hey, lets try, what is there to lose.
Nov 02 17:57:39 <laen> I can see why people go for Debian.
Nov 02 17:57:40 <lindi-> laen: take a photo if you get errors
Nov 02 17:57:48 <guruwho> laen: do you have a usb keyboard?
Nov 02 17:57:50 <lindi-> laen: what you have sounds like a kernel issue
Nov 02 17:58:02 <lindi-> laen: so we are all in the same boat anyway :)
Nov 02 17:58:31 <laen> Well, i didn't update the uBoot, just updated the kernel image and rootfs.. is the uBoot recommended?
Nov 02 17:59:20 <Dave> :x
Nov 02 17:59:29 <Dave> rooly: vala vala vala
Nov 02 17:59:57 <rooly> yo yo yo
Nov 02 18:01:03 <lindi-> laen: uboot probably does not matter if you have already booted successfully
Nov 02 18:01:05 <laen> K, thats a lot of kernel errors coming by.
Nov 02 18:01:11 <lindi-> laen: good
Nov 02 18:01:19 <Dave> crap, my freerunner died agan
Nov 02 18:01:21 <Dave> again
Nov 02 18:01:28 <laen> No, cause it allready scrolled a whole screen lindi- :)
Nov 02 18:01:36 <Dave> haha
Nov 02 18:01:43 <Dave> quick, they're escaping!
Nov 02 18:01:52 <lindi-> laen: get video camera :)
Nov 02 18:02:01 <Dave> hahaha
Nov 02 18:02:09 <Dave> oh great, I can see it now... on youtube. -_-
Nov 02 18:02:13 <laen> Damn yeah. Well, guess that _is_ an idea.
Nov 02 18:02:23 <lindi-> laen: or add delay to printk
Nov 02 18:02:28 <Dave> hilarious - technology at it's best!
Nov 02 18:02:32 <PBeck> hallo
Nov 02 18:03:02 <laen> I'd have to install a webcam though.
Nov 02 18:03:14 <Dave> wtfparadox
Nov 02 18:03:28 <lindi-> laen: you could put the photo of the last lines too
Nov 02 18:03:34 * Dave thinks he should setup a livestreaming server for his "ErrorCam"
Nov 02 18:03:56 <Dave> lindi, or use a digicam in 10x burst mode :D
Nov 02 18:04:00 <laen> But as far as i can see it's.. timer interrupt from handle_IRQ_event, more IRQ stuff, and ioctl stuff. And i don't have a camera :P
Nov 02 18:04:16 <lindi-> laen: rright
Nov 02 18:04:20 <laen> hehe
Nov 02 18:04:23 <Dave> so, uhh...
Nov 02 18:04:28 <lindi-> laen: then it's pretty difficult to do much about it
Nov 02 18:04:32 <Dave> dwaaaaaaaaaaas -_-
Nov 02 18:04:32 <laen> True.
Nov 02 18:04:53 <laen> Lets see if there's other stuff to try first. Is there a uBoot image you recommend?
Nov 02 18:05:06 <Dave> the latest?
Nov 02 18:05:18 <lindi-> uboot is not yet packaged in debian :)
Nov 02 18:05:27 <laen> Don't have debian yet :)
Nov 02 18:06:22 <lindi-> laen: i just mean that i don't know what to recommend since it's not in debian yet ;)
Nov 02 18:06:46 <laen> Oh does debian have the acceleromeblabla stuff btw?
Nov 02 18:07:02 <lindi-> laen: sure
Nov 02 18:07:06 <laen> Nice.
Nov 02 18:07:13 <lindi-> laen: linux is in debian
Nov 02 18:07:21 <laen> debian is linux
Nov 02 18:07:25 <Dave> huhu
Nov 02 18:07:27 <lindi-> ii  linux-image-2.6.24-openmoko-gta02    20080903.git2ea34171-2 Linux 2.6.24 kernel image for the Openmoko N
Nov 02 18:07:42 <laen> Ah look o look :)
Nov 02 18:08:04 <laen> You know what the weird thing is.. i had the freerunner working on Wifi (just not getting an IP but that didn't matter offcourse).
Nov 02 18:08:06 <lindi-> laen: well, i was running debian before linux for openmoko was in debian
Nov 02 18:08:33 <lindi-> laen: i think i installed debian before the official installation instructions were even up :)
Nov 02 18:08:43 <laen> lindi-: sweet :)
Nov 02 18:09:37 <lindi-> hmm, actually, it's not in official debian yet. only pkg-fso repo
Nov 02 18:10:04 <laen> Think i'm gonna try the 2008.08 kernel instead of the 2008.9 and see what that brings us.
Nov 02 18:12:03 <Dave> laen, I heard it's better.
Nov 02 18:12:16 <laen> Where did you hear?
Nov 02 18:12:19 <Dave> You didn't hear it from me though :D
Nov 02 18:12:45 * Ke pats Dave 
Nov 02 18:12:57 <Dave> :D
Nov 02 18:13:07 <Dave> terve
Nov 02 18:13:16 <Ke> hi
Nov 02 18:13:27 <Dave> Oh great, it's Hire ~_~
Nov 02 18:13:34 <Hire1> ah ah 
Nov 02 18:13:39 <Dave> ¬_¬
Nov 02 18:14:18 <Hire1> i am tired
Nov 02 18:14:32 <Hire1> just returned to home
Nov 02 18:15:13 <Dave> Good
Nov 02 18:15:27 <Dave> Now we will depress you even more with the lamentations of openmoko
Nov 02 18:16:09 <Hire1> oh yes
Nov 02 18:16:12 <Hire1> it crashed ...
Nov 02 18:16:15 <Hire1> 0 times :o
Nov 02 18:16:17 <Hire1> a record
Nov 02 18:16:19 <laen> How!
Nov 02 18:16:24 <laen> =)
Nov 02 18:16:31 <Hire1> i don't know
Nov 02 18:16:48 <Hire1> i think it is just luck
Nov 02 18:16:57 <mwester_> It was powered off.
Nov 02 18:16:57 <Dave> random stabilization due to entropy cascade.
Nov 02 18:17:05 <Dave> Haha, Mwester.
Nov 02 18:17:36 * Dave gives MWester a gold star
Nov 02 18:19:12 <Hire1> mwester: probably
Nov 02 18:19:18 <Hire1> i don't have checked it
Nov 02 18:19:26 <Dave> haha
Nov 02 18:19:43 <Dave> That's some awesome English there.
Nov 02 18:19:44 <laen> Wauw, the OM 2008.8 kernel didn't crash as fast, it crashed 1 second later.
Nov 02 18:20:09 <Ke> ie. poor performance
Nov 02 18:20:23 <bumbl> I'm feeling lucky - as soon as ms4 is out I'll start my 3rd try using the NEO as my daily phone
Nov 02 18:20:28 <Dave> Ke, especially when off :D
Nov 02 18:21:37 <Hire1> Dave: are you saying I am a dumbass with english?
Nov 02 18:22:18 <slaxxin> bumble is there a problem with using qtopia or fdom?
Nov 02 18:22:20 <Dave> hahaha
Nov 02 18:22:25 <Zorkman> can anybody copy-paste the sentence it was about? :)
Nov 02 18:22:26 <Dave> I never said anything of the sort...
Nov 02 18:22:30 <Dave> Hoenoes, it's slaxxin!
Nov 02 18:22:41 <Hire1> Dave is a liar
Nov 02 18:22:41 <Zorkman> slaxxin: FDOM is too slow when suspended
Nov 02 18:22:44 <slaxxin> SUPER dave
Nov 02 18:23:24 <slaxxin> well    and your point is?
Nov 02 18:23:26 <laen> FDOM is indeed extremely slow at all times.
Nov 02 18:24:03 <bumbl> slaxxin: i don't like qtopia
Nov 02 18:24:10 <bumbl> and FDOM is too bloated
Nov 02 18:24:13 <bumbl> it drains the battery
Nov 02 18:24:36 <Zorkman> I like FDOM, but not as a phone
Nov 02 18:25:00 <bumbl> Zorkman: yeah
Nov 02 18:25:14 <bumbl> for me FDOM is just a poc
Nov 02 18:25:15 <slaxxin> here comes android
Nov 02 18:25:41 <slaxxin> yust in time fore mr4 and 2008.10
Nov 02 18:25:42 <bumbl> slaxxin: android won't solve all the nasty hardwarebugs
Nov 02 18:25:57 <Zorkman> or the kernel probs
Nov 02 18:26:10 <slaxxin> do we need a different mfg?
Nov 02 18:26:47 <slaxxin> what u guys need to do is agree on a hardware set   THEN PRODUCE IT
Nov 02 18:27:12 <lindi-> slaxxin: i can't produce anything :)
Nov 02 18:27:13 <mwester_> slaxxin:  http://moko.mwester.net/foolish.html     <--- first section is on android ;-)
Nov 02 18:31:26 <Zorkman> right now my FR with qt extended 4.4.2 is acting like a stroboscope, dimming and un-dimming the backligt every few seconds withtouth any user input (dim light is at 20sec) :)
Nov 02 18:32:47 <mwester_> Cool!  I just looooove the bugs we get with the FR and the Neo; they are sooo unusually creative!
Nov 02 18:32:57 <Zorkman> mwester: i like reason three of the "reason" for "knife-kernel" :)
Nov 02 18:33:24 <mwester_> :)
Nov 02 18:34:18 <Hire1> ehi
Nov 02 18:35:14 <Hire1> but I can use my FR with wpa
Nov 02 18:35:15 <Hire1> i am a magican?
Nov 02 18:35:15 <Hire1> probably, yes
Nov 02 18:35:19 <Zorkman> i also have no sim insterted, but the neo knows i only have 3bars or reception.....
Nov 02 18:36:25 <Zorkman> Hire1: please enchant my FR with "Flaws -200.000.000"
Nov 02 18:36:43 <mwester_> Zorkman: there is a bug in QtX that I've fixed, but I failed to file a bug on it with the patch.  :(
Nov 02 18:37:04 <Zorkman> lol
Nov 02 18:37:16 <Zorkman> lets release our frustation on lpotter
Nov 02 18:37:21 <Zorkman> damn, he's not here
Nov 02 18:37:43 <mwester_> It mis-handles the signal quality; too many possible ways to get signal quality with various GSM chips, and the Calypso is broken in that regard.  Surprise!!!
Nov 02 18:38:45 <Zorkman> man man man, that calypso thing seems like the doomsday device of kubrik
Nov 02 18:38:46 <mwester_> No, be nice to lpotter.  But I do have to say that I don't like the way the "bouncy calypso" was solved in 4.4.2. :(
Nov 02 18:39:16 <Zorkman> I was going to ask you about that, do you know if that has a big impact on battery life?
Nov 02 18:39:31 <mwester_> It penalizes all the folks that DON'T have the problem.  FSO handles it the best (thanks to mickey|bbl).  It has a HUGE impact on battery life.
Nov 02 18:39:45 <Zorkman> :(
Nov 02 18:40:02 <mwester_> about 5x more current in suspend.
Nov 02 18:40:08 <Zorkman> mwester: am i right that when it detects the bouncing behaviour it switches to another mode?
Nov 02 18:40:13 <mwester_> No.
Nov 02 18:40:37 <mwester_> That's what my original patch did, and what FSO does.  Qtx 4.4.2 will unconditionally disable deep sleep.
Nov 02 18:40:37 <Zorkman> is it something else than the AT command?
Nov 02 18:40:46 <Zorkman> :(
Nov 02 18:41:14 <mwester_> FSO actually has code to re-enable deep sleep if possible.
Nov 02 18:41:42 <Zorkman> is there a reason qtopia doesn't have it?
Nov 02 18:42:36 <mwester_> Probably because my patch was so incredibly ugly, and would break all the other non-openmoko phones the way it was implemented.  It was a hack.
Nov 02 18:43:15 <Zorkman> i guess there is no way for a simple end-user to implenent your hack?
Nov 02 18:43:26 <mwester_> Sure.
Nov 02 18:43:40 <mwester_> :)  I need to re-implement it as a patch for 4.4.2.
Nov 02 18:43:53 <Zorkman> i'll check your site regulary then :)
Nov 02 18:43:58 <mwester_> Should be availalbe in a few days, but you'll have to recompile 4.4.2.
Nov 02 18:44:21 <Zorkman> haha, that is where my "simple end user" stuff fails :)
Nov 02 18:44:23 <BluesLee> mwester_  which hack?
Nov 02 18:45:49 <BluesLee> mwester_ echo?
Nov 02 18:45:55 <mwester_> bouncing
Nov 02 18:46:15 <BluesLee> mwester_ bouncing seems to be solved in 4.4.2
Nov 02 18:46:29 <mwester_> See the previous comments here.
Nov 02 18:47:03 <BluesLee> mwester_ i cant, i entered the channel 4 minutes ago
Nov 02 18:47:27 <BluesLee> mwester_ whats the status on the echo issue? 
Nov 02 18:48:45 <mwester_> Dunno.  Should be better with 4.4.2, I think.
Nov 02 18:49:03 <BluesLee> mwester_ i dont have the re-registering in the latest 4.4.2 but echo is still there
Nov 02 18:49:08 <Zorkman> BluesLee: 4.4.2 just disabled deep sleerp mode of the modem, resulting in suspend power consumption x5
Nov 02 18:49:17 <mwester_> But the real issue (and I fear that people are forgetting this) is that it's a mechanical hardware problem.
Nov 02 18:49:58 <BluesLee> mwester_ didnt know about that... i know that the buzz issue is hardware related
Nov 02 18:50:10 <BluesLee> Zorkman: thank you for that information
Nov 02 18:50:57 <BluesLee> Zorkman: the latest 3 images lpotter released are disappointing at least for me
Nov 02 18:51:21 <Zorkman> sadly they are the only real option if you want to use it as a real phone
Nov 02 18:51:35 <Zorkman> every other image responds too slow to resume
Nov 02 18:51:47 <mwester_> BluesLee: the buzz is hardware; the echo is mechanical -- feedback from the speaker to the microphone.  The only REAL solution for the latter is a headphone or bluetooth; but the headphone doesn't fix the buzz.  So in the end, the only real solution for both is bluetooth.
Nov 02 18:52:25 <Zorkman> does anyone know why i don't get a ringtone in the latest qt extended?
Nov 02 18:52:31 <BluesLee> Zorkman: yes that is very sad. qtextended is an intermediate solution for me as there is no alternative
Nov 02 18:53:47 <BluesLee> mwester_ bt does not work in the new 4.4.2 image lpotter forgot something to add
Nov 02 18:54:08 <Zorkman> seems like they have the same testing team as OM :)à
Nov 02 18:54:33 <BluesLee> hehe
Nov 02 18:54:34 <jonkristian> Tell me, does gps work at all?
Nov 02 18:54:49 <jonkristian> I've tried with 2007.2, qt-extended and 2008.9
Nov 02 18:54:51 <jonkristian> No joy
Nov 02 18:55:06 <Zorkman> jonkristian: it works in 2007.2, 2008.x and FSO
Nov 02 18:55:13 <BluesLee> and in qtextended
Nov 02 18:55:20 <Zorkman> not yet a real gps app..
Nov 02 18:55:24 <Zorkman> you can see the output
Nov 02 18:55:33 <BluesLee> Zorkman: i compiled roadmap
Nov 02 18:55:57 <jonkristian> omg, the red dot seems to have found my location, i think
Nov 02 18:55:58 <Zorkman> for qtopia?
Nov 02 18:56:07 <BluesLee> Zorkman: for qtopia 4.3.3, waiting for the 4.4 sdk
Nov 02 18:56:09 <Zorkman> jonkristian: get out, it's a sniper!
Nov 02 18:56:21 <jonkristian> :D
Nov 02 18:56:33 <jonkristian> does 2008.9 zoom?
Nov 02 18:56:36 <jonkristian> the map...
Nov 02 18:56:40 <Zorkman> yes
Nov 02 18:57:02 <Zorkman> mwester_: you tested qtopia 4.4.2?? did you get a ringtone?
Nov 02 18:57:09 <BluesLee> mwester_ the hardware bugs get annoying, maybe i will get me a new phone
Nov 02 18:57:15 <jonkristian> Zorkman: I did
Nov 02 18:57:16 <SpeedEvil> Employee relations - http://www.bunny-comic.com/?id=1052
Nov 02 18:57:26 <Zorkman> jonkristian: did you have to do something special?
Nov 02 18:57:40 <slaxxin> yes the speakers nedd to be relocated away from the mic an the mic needs a sound cancling tube
Nov 02 18:58:03 <jonkristian> Zorkman: don't think i did
Nov 02 18:58:11 <Zorkman> damn :(
Nov 02 18:58:18 <DocScrutinizer2> BluesLee: hw-bugs... Huh? please elaborate
Nov 02 18:58:40 <slaxxin> whats the chances of getting a  non-pressure touch screen  on a future moko?
Nov 02 18:58:59 <BluesLee> DocScrutinizer2: YOU ARE THE DOC;-)
Nov 02 18:59:01 <DocScrutinizer2> slaxxin: ???
Nov 02 18:59:01 <lindi-> slaxxin: we here probably don't know
Nov 02 18:59:03 <Zorkman> slaxxin: maybe gta04, but i think the chanses are very slim
Nov 02 18:59:11 <jonkristian> I think i fid 2008.9 a better alternative to qt-extended, haven't found lesser bugs on either of 'em.
Nov 02 18:59:30 <slaxxin> that is right jon
Nov 02 18:59:53 <Zorkman> jonkristian: go into suspend, and recieve a call; 9times out of ten you won't be able to pull it out of you pcoket and answer a call in time
Nov 02 18:59:59 <jonkristian> fid=find
Nov 02 19:00:02 <slaxxin> since the bouncing has been fixed
Nov 02 19:00:04 <DocScrutinizer2> slaxxin: U talk bout capacitive ts?
Nov 02 19:00:38 <Zorkman> slaxxin: bouncing has not been fixed, it has been "covered up" with a lot of power consumption
Nov 02 19:00:41 <slaxxin> i dont know what it is called
Nov 02 19:00:57 <slaxxin> on the testing image?
Nov 02 19:01:00 <jonkristian> ERROR Unable to locate a fix , that's what i get when trying gps
Nov 02 19:01:01 <DocScrutinizer2> so wtf is a nonpressure ts?
Nov 02 19:01:34 <slaxxin> well i didnt want to say it   .. but like the iphone
Nov 02 19:01:35 <Zorkman> DocScrutinizer: i think he means no ts or a capacitive
Nov 02 19:01:49 <DocScrutinizer2> capacitive
Nov 02 19:02:18 <slaxxin> those are apparently very expencive
Nov 02 19:02:26 <BluesLee> mwester_ are those problems freerunner specific or does the neo 1973 also suffer?
Nov 02 19:02:31 <DocScrutinizer2> I don't like C-ts, you can't do clean clicks
Nov 02 19:03:10 <DocScrutinizer2> slaxxin: not THAT expensive
Nov 02 19:03:16 <Pander> hi all
Nov 02 19:03:27 <BluesLee> mwester_ there was a hw solution for the buzz, does it also solve the echo issue?
Nov 02 19:03:40 <jonkristian> ping
Nov 02 19:03:50 <DocScrutinizer2> and yeah, tho I don't like them, still there are chances
Nov 02 19:04:13 <DocScrutinizer2> BluesLee: nope
Nov 02 19:06:08 <Zorkman> anyone know how to get sound in qt extended when recieving sms or call?
Nov 02 19:06:48 <DocScrutinizer2> BluesLee: we're looking into calypso FW to augment echo issue
Nov 02 19:08:18 <BluesLee> DocScrutinizer2 hmm ... do you think it is possible to handle? i dont see a progress since months
Nov 02 19:09:02 <DocScrutinizer2> we just started to investigate on GSM-fw
Nov 02 19:09:03 <BluesLee> DocScrutinizer2: i thought that some hidden AT commands would solve the issue
Nov 02 19:09:21 <BluesLee> DocScrutinizer2: FW=?
Nov 02 19:09:30 <DocScrutinizer2> firmware
Nov 02 19:09:31 <Zorkman> firmware
Nov 02 19:09:35 <BluesLee> okay
Nov 02 19:09:48 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer2: you work for openmoko inc.?
Nov 02 19:09:54 <BluesLee> DocScrutinizer2: undocumented TI stuff ...
Nov 02 19:10:04 <Zorkman> cmon lindi-, you should know that by now :)
Nov 02 19:10:11 <DocScrutinizer2> ~joerg
Nov 02 19:10:12 <apt> hmm... joerg is a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko, usually known as DocScrutinizer
Nov 02 19:10:29 <Zorkman> he's one of the good guys lindi- :)
Nov 02 19:10:31 <BluesLee> ohh joerg
Nov 02 19:11:03 <BluesLee> DocScrutinizer2 hallo erstmal;-)
Nov 02 19:11:10 <DocScrutinizer2> hi
Nov 02 19:11:18 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer2: ok
Nov 02 19:11:42 <BluesLee> DocScrutinizer2 i hope you will solve that issue, my girlfriend does not like the echo;-)
Nov 02 19:12:16 <DocScrutinizer2> echo is much an issue of high quality provider
Nov 02 19:12:31 <BluesLee> BluesLee: since i have the freerunner i have less friends, only my girlfriend stayed with me
Nov 02 19:12:36 <DocScrutinizer2> err low quality ;-)
Nov 02 19:12:57 <BluesLee> DocScrutinizer2: i thought vodafone would be a good choice
Nov 02 19:13:15 <DocScrutinizer2> depends, but yeah
Nov 02 19:13:31 <Zorkman> BluesLee: my gf doesn't like the buzzing sound  :)
Nov 02 19:13:57 <CVirus> I don't think someone with a freerunner would have a gf
Nov 02 19:13:59 <BluesLee> Zorkman: here are some guys who suffer from the wsod
Nov 02 19:14:16 <DocScrutinizer> buzz might affect echo as well, but not that much
Nov 02 19:14:17 <mwester_> echo is low quality provider?   What has the provider to do with the feedback path from speaker to microphone?
Nov 02 19:14:19 <BluesLee> CVirus: if i would be a virus ...
Nov 02 19:14:55 <DocScrutinizer> mwester_: they implement sophisticated echocancelers
Nov 02 19:15:03 <jonkristian> echo, nobody I've talked to on the fr has mentioned anything about that.
Nov 02 19:15:16 <Zorkman> jonkristian: believe me, a lot of people have
Nov 02 19:15:28 <BluesLee> jonkristian: hmmm
Nov 02 19:15:31 <DocScrutinizer> those echo-cancelers may perform porly on buzz
Nov 02 19:15:32 <jonkristian> Zorkman: I meant, people I've talked to on the phone
Nov 02 19:15:38 <mwester_> Ok.  But that classifies as a workaround -- and one cannot blame the root cause on a "low-quality provider"
Nov 02 19:15:40 <jonkristian> my phone, the freerunner
Nov 02 19:15:41 <Zorkman> CVirus: that is because i'm a total noob at everything with regards to the FR :)
Nov 02 19:15:51 <CVirus> hehe
Nov 02 19:16:13 <DocScrutinizer> the root cause is mic and speaker in same case - you got that on every phone
Nov 02 19:16:25 <BluesLee> jonkristian: when did you bought your freerunner?
Nov 02 19:16:32 <DocScrutinizer> other phones have better cancelation built in
Nov 02 19:16:47 <jonkristian> BluesLee: a month ago
Nov 02 19:16:51 <mwester_> DocScrutinizer: So why is it that other phones do NOT have the echo on these same "low-quality" providers?
Nov 02 19:16:56 <Zorkman> i thought we didn't even had cancellation, that we could pull off surpression but not cancellation
Nov 02 19:17:02 <DocScrutinizer> or - to be more optimistic - we don't make good use of calypso cancellation
Nov 02 19:17:22 <BluesLee> DocScrutinizer2: is ti cooperating?
Nov 02 19:17:23 * mwester_ grows weary of the constant blaming of others certain openmoko people do.
Nov 02 19:17:28 <DocScrutinizer> that's why I mention GSM-FW
Nov 02 19:18:03 * DocScrutinizer throws IPhoneIIs on MWester
Nov 02 19:18:15 <DocScrutinizer> BluesLee: nope
Nov 02 19:18:28 <DocScrutinizer> not that much, calypso is EOL
Nov 02 19:18:34 <BluesLee> DocScrutinizer2: okay, lets say there is a fw which solves the echo issue. but you cant distribute it ..
Nov 02 19:18:48 <DocScrutinizer> why not?
Nov 02 19:18:49 <fredrin> BluesLee: :)
Nov 02 19:19:07 <DocScrutinizer> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GSM/Flashing
Nov 02 19:19:14 <mwester_> why not?  Same reason  OM hasn't distributed any other firmwares.
Nov 02 19:19:21 <DocScrutinizer> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GSM/Flashing
Nov 02 19:19:33 <DocScrutinizer> mwester_: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GSM/Flashing
Nov 02 19:19:44 <jonkristian> Anywhere I can get a norwegian dict to illume?
Nov 02 19:19:47 <DocScrutinizer> BZZZ, wrong
Nov 02 19:20:26 <BluesLee> okay
Nov 02 19:20:38 <BluesLee> do it and i will flash the gsm fw
Nov 02 19:20:40 <Zorkman> jonkristian: http://alasal.be/openmoko/keyboard/
Nov 02 19:20:43 <mwester_> DocScrutinizer: Ok, good.  Only took Om 1.5 YEARS to do that.
Nov 02 19:20:58 <jonkristian> Zorkman: sweet
Nov 02 19:21:03 <mwester_> BUZZZZZZZZZ for crappy customer service, Doc.
Nov 02 19:21:17 <Zorkman> np jonkristian: if you want instructions; see: http://onlinedev.blogspot.com/2008/09/openmoko-howto-change-your-keyboard.html
Nov 02 19:21:26 <DocScrutinizer> mwester_: I grow weary of other people blaming OM for things they can't fix
Nov 02 19:21:36 <BluesLee> DocScrutinizer2: otherwise i will get me yphone
Nov 02 19:21:45 <mwester_> DocScrutinizer: Grow up.
Nov 02 19:21:48 <Zorkman> mwester_ , DocScrutinizer2; c'mon, don't be childisch, you're both one of the most usefull members of this community i know
Nov 02 19:21:58 <jonkristian> Zorkman: any way to have both english and norwegian, and switch between?
Nov 02 19:22:14 <Zorkman> jonkristian: i think that is possible, haven't tried it yet
Nov 02 19:22:30 <DocScrutinizer> took 2 years to get admittance from TI to publish this fsck FLUID
Nov 02 19:22:41 <mwester_> Sure.  Let's play nice.  Here's what doc want's to hear:  "There are NO hardware or firmware bugs in any product he has been involved with, ever."
Nov 02 19:22:51 * mwester_ refuses to play anymore.
Nov 02 19:23:15 <Zorkman> mwester_: that's not true, i've talked with DocScrutinizer2 already a few times about the bugs, he alwaysa dmitted it
Nov 02 19:23:28 <Zorkman> in fact he is the only one that EVER gives some usefull info about the gsm buzz and stuff
Nov 02 19:23:29 <DocScrutinizer> mwester_: go nag someone else, I joined OM half a year ago
Nov 02 19:24:16 <DocScrutinizer> since then we published schematics, calypso fw, FLUID
Nov 02 19:24:31 <Zorkman> and DocScrutinizer2: he's just frustrated and i can't blame him because i'm also frustrated
Nov 02 19:24:42 <Zorkman> i'm gonna take a bath, some beers and throw my FR against a wall :D
Nov 02 19:24:56 <DocScrutinizer> I'm talking frankly bout buzz and every other real hw issue
Nov 02 19:25:09 <Zorkman> i know and i appreciate it
Nov 02 19:25:15 <Zorkman> (but I do hate those bugs :()
Nov 02 19:25:41 <BluesLee> ditto
Nov 02 19:25:51 <DocScrutinizer> nobody hates them more than me ;-)
Nov 02 19:26:17 <BluesLee> DocScrutinizer i am sure you can solve them
Nov 02 19:26:19 <DocScrutinizer> but I hate even more pushing TPE and nothing moves
Nov 02 19:27:09 <BluesLee> DocScrutinizer there is no doubt that om made mistakes in the past but talking about that does not solve anything for the future
Nov 02 19:27:16 <DocScrutinizer> BluesLee: thanks, but not that sure about it. I *know* (maybe) how to fix them, but that means changes on hw, and that's a BIG problem
Nov 02 19:28:23 <fredrin> What if the FW was leaked, it's easier to get forgiveness than permission 
Nov 02 19:28:31 <DocScrutinizer> well, I'm back in TPE in a few days, so maybe some work gets done again then ;-)
Nov 02 19:28:34 <SpeedEvil> fredrin: err
Nov 02 19:28:38 <fredrin> :)
Nov 02 19:28:42 <SpeedEvil> fredrin: The courts really don't see it that way
Nov 02 19:28:47 * SpeedEvil kills fredrin .
Nov 02 19:29:06 <DocScrutinizer> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GSM/Flashing
Nov 02 19:29:21 <slaxxin> now that every body is fully frustrated       can u guys tell me " if i install on openmoko image an kernel 4 times in a row will i have the exact experience   every time"
Nov 02 19:29:32 <DocScrutinizer> I'll add the GTA01 fw-images in a few days
Nov 02 19:30:08 <DocScrutinizer> lol - *should*
Nov 02 19:30:16 <slaxxin> using 1 moko for all 4 times ofcourse
Nov 02 19:30:34 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, except for quantum effects
Nov 02 19:30:35 <slaxxin> yea i know i should   ,,but   is it
Nov 02 19:30:46 <BluesLee> but i dont know why the most users stay calm for months ... 
Nov 02 19:31:02 <DocScrutinizer> sorry I never tested thoroughly
Nov 02 19:31:07 <BluesLee> DocScrutinizer what is the latest fw on the freerunner moko.x?
Nov 02 19:31:27 <DocScrutinizer> moko9 I'm told
Nov 02 19:31:43 <DocScrutinizer> but that'S not yet in the market
Nov 02 19:31:53 <BluesLee> DocScrutinizer thats the stock one on my freerunner
Nov 02 19:32:00 <DocScrutinizer> and fixes only different flashrom chip issue
Nov 02 19:32:16 <DocScrutinizer> ok, so it's actually out in the wild
Nov 02 19:32:33 <DocScrutinizer> we're testing moko10 internally
Nov 02 19:32:56 <DocScrutinizer> but it's a beta yet, and doesn't fix anything as well
Nov 02 19:33:06 <DocScrutinizer> yet
Nov 02 19:33:09 <BluesLee> hmmm
Nov 02 19:34:19 <DocScrutinizer> we lost our GSM expert recently, so we had to find new manpower and expertise for calypso
Nov 02 19:34:43 <Dave> JOERG
Nov 02 19:34:50 <DocScrutinizer> dave :-)
Nov 02 19:35:07 <BluesLee> DocScrutinizer what about harald?
Nov 02 19:35:09 <Dave> :D
Nov 02 19:35:35 <BluesLee> DocScrutinizer he seems to be clever;-)
Nov 02 19:35:40 <DocScrutinizer> Harals is just an occasional contributor, but we got Dieter now
Nov 02 19:35:52 <DocScrutinizer> (clever) you bet he is
Nov 02 19:37:35 <BluesLee> DocScrutinizer i the end i dont care if anton, dieter or a guy called moe solves th eproblem
Nov 02 19:37:47 <DocScrutinizer> sure
Nov 02 19:38:23 <BluesLee> this hw stuff is really difficult
Nov 02 19:39:14 <DocScrutinizer> obviously we have to start building better quality, and do it pretty soon. Well that's my private opinion
Nov 02 19:39:21 <BluesLee> i hope some pre-tests will be done with the gta03 ...
Nov 02 19:39:55 <BluesLee> otherwise blues will get angry;-)
Nov 02 19:40:31 <DocScrutinizer> new that we got some sw to use he phones in real live, probably there will be more real-live tests on gta03 than were done on gta02
Nov 02 19:41:31 <DocScrutinizer> though there were quite some tests on gta02 as well, only they didn't reveal the nasty random issues
Nov 02 19:41:36 <BluesLee> DocScrutinizer is there a time horizon for gta03?
Nov 02 19:41:57 <DocScrutinizer> musrn't talk about, even don't know for sure
Nov 02 19:42:24 <BluesLee> ok
Nov 02 19:43:05 <DocScrutinizer> still same fab that's hard to ramp up, and things like that
Nov 02 19:44:02 <BluesLee> i saw mickeyl with one of the first neos in the beginning of the last year
Nov 02 19:44:03 <DocScrutinizer> you were able to see how we performed on gta02
Nov 02 19:44:34 <BluesLee> never thought that it would take thqat time
Nov 02 19:45:01 <DocScrutinizer> believe me, you're not allone ;-)
Nov 02 19:45:35 <BluesLee> i was suprised by the gps sw fix
Nov 02 19:45:58 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, sometmes we're lucky :-D
Nov 02 19:46:33 <BluesLee> that raised my believe that openness has big advantages
Nov 02 19:46:56 <BluesLee> but it has also some disadvantages
Nov 02 19:47:00 <DocScrutinizer> well in the end openness didn't help much here
Nov 02 19:47:16 <BluesLee> thats correct
Nov 02 19:47:27 <DocScrutinizer> as it was glamo hw register stuff not disclosed
Nov 02 19:47:50 <DocScrutinizer> well, we get rid of glamo at least :-)
Nov 02 19:47:58 <DocScrutinizer> in GTA03
Nov 02 19:48:45 <DocScrutinizer> biggest disadvantage is we can't choose the best chips, we need to pick the open ones
Nov 02 19:49:15 <DocScrutinizer> there's few of them
Nov 02 19:49:28 <BluesLee> i know
Nov 02 19:49:48 <BluesLee> life is hard
Nov 02 19:50:03 <DocScrutinizer> nah, just an exciting challenge
Nov 02 19:50:10 <BluesLee> :-)
Nov 02 19:50:27 <BluesLee> my new seven, selfmade, 10 cent, juggling balls wait to be juggled joerg
Nov 02 19:50:44 <BluesLee> cu
Nov 02 19:50:46 <DocScrutinizer> cu
Nov 02 19:51:18 <DocScrutinizer> have to pack my suitcase eventually, so...
Nov 02 19:51:21 * DocScrutinizer away
Nov 02 19:59:52 <bove3> why is there both wlan0, eth0 and eth1 entries in the standard ASU /etc/network/interfaces?
Nov 02 20:04:03 <laen> bove3: been wondering about that too
Nov 02 20:04:34 <Tm_T> just to intrigue you?
Nov 02 20:04:40 <laen> How cool :)
Nov 02 20:06:02 <bove3> I'm struggling to get a wpa_supplicant setup working
Nov 02 20:06:18 <laen> bove3: let me know if you succeed, cause that just freezes mine.
Nov 02 20:09:47 <laen> Just added http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/feeds/2008/ipk/glibc/armv4t/base as opgk source to a fresh install, update, upgrade.. boy is that little freerunner working hehe
Nov 02 20:12:33 <ColdFyre> the waln0 is standard wifi in the newer kernels
Nov 02 20:12:48 <ColdFyre> it's not openmoko specific
Nov 02 20:15:42 <jonkristian> hell, im even struggling getting wep working:D
Nov 02 20:17:25 <evolux> is there a working package for mpd for fdom?
Nov 02 20:28:44 <laen> Ug!
Nov 02 20:29:18 <laen> I added the angstrom-feed.conf as described on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Repositories, and it borked quite a lot. Can't even ssh into the freerunner anymore and can't launch settings Oo
Nov 02 20:39:49 <daramarak> Hi, I just got my FR, is there any reason that is shouldn't flash it directly to 2008.10?
Nov 02 20:40:59 <bove3> i dindnt know .10 was out yet?
Nov 02 20:41:25 <daramarak> well, must be 9 i am talking about then
Nov 02 20:41:37 <daramarak> Haven't been paying attention last week
Nov 02 20:41:58 <daramarak> Was expecting 10 to be out when november arrived :)
Nov 02 20:45:10 <bove3> I seems .10 has quite many tickets: http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/roadmap
Nov 02 20:48:07 <daramarak> Yes, I am afraid so...
Nov 02 20:48:38 <daramarak> But still, from what I hear the software is really getting somewhere
Nov 02 21:19:47 <laen> Weird question.. i have to install illume-config to get the terminal keyboard.. but illume-keyboard-terminal is allready installed.. so why do i need illume-config?
Nov 02 21:19:57 <laen> Or, can i remove it afterwards?
Nov 02 21:26:02 <Zork|Bath> is there a way to get a notification when my sms is delivered on qt extended?
Nov 02 21:26:08 <Dave> ugggggggggh
Nov 02 21:26:16 <Dave> Zork, yeah
Nov 02 21:26:22 <Dave> it sucks though depending on the theme
Nov 02 21:26:30 <Dave> and it was weird and seems like no all support
Nov 02 21:27:10 <Zorkman> how to enable it?
Nov 02 21:27:18 <Dave> I have no idea :D
Nov 02 21:27:19 <Dave> sorry
Nov 02 21:27:41 <Zorkman> np
Nov 02 21:27:53 <Zorkman> i suspended my phone and the time and timezone got reset...
Nov 02 21:27:58 <Zorkman> will anything ever work?
Nov 02 21:28:22 <Dave> hahaha
Nov 02 21:28:48 <Zorkman> c'mon, setting and saving time should work by now :)
Nov 02 21:30:51 <bumbl> fat chance that we could use the freerunner for something productive anytime soon
Nov 02 21:31:49 <Dave> haha, yeah, right
Nov 02 21:32:02 <laen> :P
Nov 02 21:32:52 <Zorkman> sound is once again buggered in qt extended i hate that gsmhandset file :)
Nov 02 21:33:11 <Dave> laen :D
Nov 02 21:33:19 <Dave> Zorkman yep :D
Nov 02 21:33:41 <jonkristian> What's the magic combination to get the phone out off suspend? :D
Nov 02 21:33:50 <Dave> haha
Nov 02 21:34:07 <jonkristian> Three clicks left, two clicks right ?
Nov 02 21:34:09 <Zorkman> jonkristian: shortpress the power button
Nov 02 21:34:26 <jonkristian> Zorkman: not working
Nov 02 21:34:36 <jonkristian> Zorkman: I have a working ssh connection, anything i can do from there?
Nov 02 21:34:44 <Zorkman> jonkristian: remove the battery and smash the phone 
Nov 02 21:34:48 <jonkristian> I tried /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm restart
Nov 02 21:35:05 <Zorkman> jonkristian don't know for sure... apm -s is used to suspend
Nov 02 21:35:13 <Zorkman> there is probably an unsuspend command
Nov 02 21:35:23 <Zorkman> but if you are suspended, usb0 should be down
Nov 02 21:35:28 <Zorkman> (at least on my FR it is)
Nov 02 21:35:31 <lindi-> unsuspend command?
Nov 02 21:35:44 <laen> Dave, this might sound strange.. but you are teh cool.
Nov 02 21:36:03 <Zorkman> laen; don't worry about it, it just sounds gay :)
Nov 02 21:36:06 <laen> Active, crazy like a painted nut, and allways a good mood :)
Nov 02 21:36:07 <jonkristian> Zorkman: hm, maybe it's not in suspend then, maybe it happened when i tried to restart x
Nov 02 21:36:32 <laen> Zorkman: oh well ;)
Nov 02 21:36:56 <Zorkman> dave has some magic pills, you as a dutchman will now everything about that :)
Nov 02 21:37:06 <Dave> laen: dankje wel :D
Nov 02 21:37:12 <laen> Graag gedaan :)
Nov 02 21:37:19 <Dave> ^_^
Nov 02 21:37:23 <laen> hehe
Nov 02 21:37:25 <Zorkman> g2g
Nov 02 21:37:44 <Dave> truste
Nov 02 21:39:44 <bumbl> laen: we ask him everyday what he takes before breakfast but he won't tell
Nov 02 21:40:51 * hipitihop waves good morning to the inmates
Nov 02 21:40:56 <Dave> :D
Nov 02 21:40:57 <laen> Offcourse not bumbl, that'd get him kicked out of the channel. Remember.. he's dutch.
Nov 02 21:41:00 <Dave> Hey hippityhop :D
Nov 02 21:41:18 <hipitihop> hey Dave
Nov 02 21:41:40 <Dave> er zijn hier veel Nederlanders!
Nov 02 21:41:56 <bumbl> laen: Dave is dutch? I thought he is just a multilingual US American
Nov 02 21:42:05 <CIA-50> openmoko: 03werner * r4743 10/developers/werner/wlan-perf/ (. measure report): 
Nov 02 21:42:05 <CIA-50> openmoko: Tools to measure WLAN performance:
Nov 02 21:42:05 <CIA-50> openmoko: - measure: runs ttcp and ping between a Neo and a host (in both directions)
Nov 02 21:42:05 <CIA-50> openmoko:  and records the results in files named _*
Nov 02 21:42:06 <CIA-50> openmoko: - report: pretty-prints the measurement data
Nov 02 21:42:30 <Dave> bumble, you are correct.
Nov 02 21:42:45 <Dave> Just don't tell anyone :D
Nov 02 21:43:08 <toggles_w> Dave: !
Nov 02 21:43:16 * Dave hides
Nov 02 21:44:57 <hipitihop> anyone here flashed the fixed qtextended 4.4.2 from http://other.lastnetwork.net/OpenMoko/ on to gta02 ?
Nov 02 21:44:57 <Zorkman> how do i manually suspend qt extended withouth typing in the terminal?
Nov 02 21:45:18 <Zorkman> nope, but i'm planning to do it, hope it also fixes the not working ring on call
Nov 02 21:46:15 <Zorkman> hipitihop: you know how to manually suspend?
Nov 02 21:46:34 <Zorkman> or make the time settings permanent? they al ways reset on my FR
Nov 02 21:47:44 <Dave> ring ring ring
Nov 02 21:48:08 <hipitihop> Zorkman, have been running 4.4.1 for weeks and never seen that problem
Nov 02 21:48:20 <hipitihop> Zorkman I just set my time in terminal using date -s
Nov 02 21:48:40 <Zorkman> hipitihop: i'm talking about qt ext 4.4.2
Nov 02 21:49:38 <Zorkman> and what does the "usb connection mode" do?
Nov 02 21:49:47 <Zorkman> it's been there forever, but when i click it nothing ever happens
Nov 02 21:51:19 <Zorkman> and why can't we just browse to the files we want to play in the mediaplayer?
Nov 02 21:55:19 <Dave> Zorkman!
Nov 02 21:56:38 <Zorkman> say the word dave, and i'll destroy whichever planet you want!
Nov 02 21:58:40 <Dave> Excellent >:)
Nov 02 21:58:57 <laen> Oh this is crazy, i got wireless working with iwconfig now. Why o why not with the Settings interface, or wpa_supplicant.
Nov 02 22:00:45 <Dave> hot
Nov 02 22:00:51 <Dave> laen, because it's bugged, duh :D
Nov 02 22:01:14 <laen> Well, if iwconfig works why wouldn't wpa_supp work.
Nov 02 22:01:15 <Dave> het is labiel :P
Nov 02 22:01:37 <Zorkman> that's an understatement dave :)
Nov 02 22:01:44 <Dave> :DDD
Nov 02 22:04:42 <toggles_w> beans..
Nov 02 22:05:25 <Zorkman> the magical fruit
Nov 02 22:06:22 <Dave> the more you eat the more you realize... What the fuck am I doing programming this fucking Java?
Nov 02 22:06:35 <toggles_w> mmmmm java...
Nov 02 22:07:07 * hipitihop the dark side
Nov 02 22:07:09 * toggles_w thinks about asking mwester if androind will come to the moko..
Nov 02 22:07:23 <ronny> hmm
Nov 02 22:08:02 <hipitihop> Dave, get a life and hack with dynamic languages if you can
Nov 02 22:08:10 <laen> toggles_w: there was a post on planet.openmoko.org about it
Nov 02 22:08:12 <Dave> I do!
Nov 02 22:08:18 <Dave> and I have been, for the last ... many years!
Nov 02 22:08:20 <Dave> So quiet you!
Nov 02 22:08:32 * hipitihop zips it
Nov 02 22:09:08 <Dave> :D
Nov 02 22:09:11 <Dave> yes.
Nov 02 22:09:13 <Dave> use pearl;
Nov 02 22:09:20 * hipitihop barf
Nov 02 22:09:30 <laen> perl you mean
Nov 02 22:09:36 * hipitihop wipes fresh coffee of his keyboard
Nov 02 22:10:44 <Dave> eww :\
Nov 02 22:10:44 <laen> What if i..
Nov 02 22:10:55 <laen> ..removed wireless-tools from the freerunner.
Nov 02 22:11:16 <toggles_w> flash flash flash....
Nov 02 22:11:23 <laen> Cause i have a feeling thats the one interrupting wpa_supplicant.
Nov 02 22:11:32 <Dave> flash it like it's hot ;p
Nov 02 22:11:41 <toggles_w> oh it's hot..
Nov 02 22:11:43 <viq> Flashers! ;P
Nov 02 22:11:47 <Dave> :D
Nov 02 22:11:50 <toggles_w> it just take too long to dfu the root
Nov 02 22:12:15 <Dave> man, dfu the root
Nov 02 22:12:26 * Dave figures some good lyrics
Nov 02 22:14:34 <toggles_w> aha! finished flashing
Nov 02 22:15:01 <hipitihop> has there been no update to mwester's kernel http://moko.mwester.net/download/uImage-gta02-g291a9d50_mwester-stable.bin ?
Nov 02 22:16:56 * hipitihop nods morning to raster
Nov 02 22:20:37 * raster wobbles morning to hipitihop 
Nov 02 22:23:26 <Kensan> raster: hey there
Nov 02 22:24:01 <raster> Kensan:  panties on
Nov 02 22:24:29 <Kensan> raster: thank you.
Nov 02 22:24:43 <Kensan> raster: did you get the pandora news? They doubled memory + nand.
Nov 02 22:24:52 <raster> eh?
Nov 02 22:25:03 <raster> i thought it was in production.. thats a late change
Nov 02 22:25:17 <Kensan> raster: they decided to opt for 512 nand + 256 ddr3 memory
Nov 02 22:25:22 <Kensan> raster: last minute change
Nov 02 22:25:26 <raster> luxury
Nov 02 22:25:29 <Kensan> raster: same price though
Nov 02 22:25:30 <raster> dont need 245m
Nov 02 22:25:36 <raster> 128 is more than enough (for me)
Nov 02 22:25:39 <raster> but ddr3
Nov 02 22:25:40 <raster> YUM
Nov 02 22:25:46 <raster> can i say that again?
Nov 02 22:25:47 <raster> YUM
Nov 02 22:25:47 <cjb_ie> 640k should be enough for anyone!
Nov 02 22:25:53 <Dave> RASTER
Nov 02 22:26:02 <Kensan> raster: well there's no such thing as enough ;)
Nov 02 22:26:14 <raster> Kensan:  in my world there is
Nov 02 22:26:19 <raster> but then again i actually profile/optimise
Nov 02 22:26:20 <raster> :)_
Nov 02 22:26:21 <laen> cjb_ie++
Nov 02 22:26:29 <Kensan> raster: http://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?showtopic=45065
Nov 02 22:27:10 <Kensan> raster: they are waiting for lcd's it seems.
Nov 02 22:30:02 <Dave> Kensan! :o
Nov 02 22:30:09 <Dave> haha
Nov 02 22:33:59 <laen> So how do you remove dependencies that came with a package?
Nov 02 22:34:07 <Dave> :D
Nov 02 22:34:14 <Dave> whee, that again :p
Nov 02 22:34:24 <Dave> damnit, gdb exploded again
Nov 02 22:34:37 <laen> Dave: how then?
Nov 02 22:35:07 <laen> autoremove
Nov 02 22:42:10 <Kensan> Dave!
Nov 02 22:42:19 <Kensan> ? ;)
Nov 02 22:46:27 <Dave> Yes!
Nov 02 22:46:44 <mwester_> fruitbats.
Nov 02 22:47:14 <mwester_> Greetings Mr. Kensan, Mr. Dave.
Nov 02 22:47:57 <Dave> Greetings.
Nov 02 22:48:01 <Dave> We meet again, Mr. Wester.
Nov 02 22:48:07 <rwhitby> morning
Nov 02 22:48:19 <Kensan> Hi there
Nov 02 22:48:27 <mwester_> Greetings Mr. Whitby!
Nov 02 22:48:28 <Dave> Hey, who invited you, Mr. Whitby?
Nov 02 22:48:59 <Kensan> Is this the meeting of the all english Sunday Evening Greetings club?
Nov 02 22:49:05 <Kensan> ;)
Nov 02 22:49:24 <mwester_> :)  Politeness is in the air.
Nov 02 22:49:30 <Kensan> indeed
Nov 02 22:49:50 <Kensan> mwester_: Is there a reason you named the project "knife-kernel"? ;)
Nov 02 22:49:56 <rwhitby> Kensan: monday morning here ...
Nov 02 22:50:05 <laen> Kensan: thats somewhere on his site
Nov 02 22:50:17 <mwester_> ;)  Three choices on my home page -- which one sounds best?
Nov 02 22:50:18 <Kensan> rwhitby: ah yes. But in england it's evening ;)
Nov 02 22:51:22 <mwester_> It's still afternoon here, now that the silly DST is over for the year.
Nov 02 22:51:33 <Kensan> DST?
Nov 02 22:51:41 <mwester_> Daylight Saving Time.
Nov 02 22:51:52 * laen wonders what to do with the Xglamo binary for the duke3d project
Nov 02 22:52:02 <Kensan> ah
Nov 02 22:52:04 <SpeedEvil> laen: ceremonial burning in fire?
Nov 02 22:52:13 <laen> Sounds good once again!
Nov 02 22:52:18 <mwester_> Only if we can burn a glamo along with it.
Nov 02 22:52:21 <Kensan> mwester_: so you live on the east coast?
Nov 02 22:52:32 <mwester_> Chicago -- Central time zone.
Nov 02 22:52:33 * Kensan votes for burning a rubber chicken too
Nov 02 22:52:58 <SpeedEvil> No!
Nov 02 22:53:04 <SpeedEvil> That's environmentally unfriendly.
Nov 02 22:53:07 <SpeedEvil> Burn a real one.
Nov 02 22:53:15 <Kensan> but it's for a good cause
Nov 02 22:53:16 <SpeedEvil> With lemon and ginger.
Nov 02 22:53:20 <mwester_> I often do, whenever I'm called on to cook...
Nov 02 22:54:05 <bumbl_> raster: good morning 
Nov 02 22:54:09 <Kensan> mwester_: you cook rubber chicken? Oh... mcdonald's I see.
Nov 02 22:54:27 <mwester_> :p   I eat anything.
Nov 02 22:54:50 <mwester_> I am fortunate to have married a very good cook, though.
Nov 02 22:55:09 <toggles_w> mwester_: even this? http://sand.wich.es/2007/12/17/brain-sandwich/
Nov 02 22:55:22 * mwester_ wonders if he dares click that link...
Nov 02 22:55:29 <raster> bumbl_:  /me wobbles @ bumbl_ 
Nov 02 22:55:49 <toggles_w> mwester_: i promise it wont mention the word android ;-)
Nov 02 22:55:50 <Kensan> mwester_: that's a worthiwhile reason for a marriage ;)
Nov 02 22:55:50 <bumbl_> it's 23:55h here though :p
Nov 02 22:55:57 <raster> oops
Nov 02 22:56:04 * raster wobbles @ bumbl_ 
Nov 02 22:56:40 * mwester_ *did* click that link, and now feels no particular desire for dinner tonight.
Nov 02 22:57:27 <toggles_w> ;-)
Nov 02 22:57:35 <Kensan> mwester_: rick-roll?
Nov 02 22:57:47 <mwester_> Kensan: disgusting sandwich.
Nov 02 22:58:18 <mwester_> Quite literally what the link says it is...
Nov 02 22:59:09 <toggles_w> am watching pbs show about sandwiches, they went there and watched some girl eat one
Nov 02 22:59:20 <mwester_> Scary.
Nov 02 22:59:41 <toggles_w> yeah, they did have some rather good sandwiche in the show htough
Nov 02 23:00:05 * mwester_ rather likes a Reuben on dark rye.  
Nov 02 23:00:07 <mwester_> sp?
Nov 02 23:01:08 <bumbl_> toggles_w: there are shows which show people eating sandwiches?
Nov 02 23:01:28 <Kensan> raster: so how is your todo list? Did you get to strike off some items over the weekend?
Nov 02 23:01:39 <raster> Kensan: not really :(
Nov 02 23:01:39 <ronny> bumbl_: yeah
Nov 02 23:01:48 <raster> weekend got filled mostly with real-life stuff
Nov 02 23:01:56 <mwester_> hopefully fun stuff
Nov 02 23:02:06 <toggles_w> bumbl_: yep http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandwiches_That_You_Will_Like
Nov 02 23:02:36 <Kensan> raster: well the todo list is not just for geek-stuff "buy new pants" could also be an item on that list ;)
Nov 02 23:02:37 <toggles_w> this country is awesome
Nov 02 23:02:45 <bumbl_> what a waste of time
Nov 02 23:03:06 <raster> Kensan: well didng get it done
Nov 02 23:03:08 <raster> got it started
Nov 02 23:04:30 <Kensan> raster: btw this one was just in and sounds interesting: http://lkml.org/lkml/2008/11/2/115
Nov 02 23:04:51 <Kensan> don't know if it applies to the current moko kernel though
Nov 02 23:06:23 <mwester_> Should be easy to see if it applies to the current source, though...
Nov 02 23:06:28 <laen> Allright, it's not wireless-tools interfering with wpa_supplicant making it crash, it's not even udhcpc, it's wpa_supplicant itself freezing the freerunner
Nov 02 23:06:42 <Kensan> mwester_: yup
Nov 02 23:06:42 <laen> Making it a freezerunner.
Nov 02 23:07:09 <Kensan> mwester_: I am cloning the knife-kernel repos ;)
Nov 02 23:07:09 <mwester_> or a freestopper
Nov 02 23:07:11 <ronny> mwester_: it loosk like a git patchs, so it applies anyway
Nov 02 23:07:38 <laen> mwester_: any chance that wpa works in your kernel/rootfs? Cause the freeze here means kernel panic/dump.
Nov 02 23:07:51 <raster> Kensan:  that
Nov 02 23:07:54 <raster> Kensan:  that'd help
Nov 02 23:08:05 <raster> i have noticed similar problems at and right after boot
Nov 02 23:08:14 <raster> just when the ui/wm/x is coming up/has come up
Nov 02 23:08:20 <mwester_> laen: It didn't lock up for me; but it doesn't keep the association for more than a few minutes with WPA.
Nov 02 23:08:28 <raster> jffs2 io threads consuming lots of cpu
Nov 02 23:08:46 <laen> mwester_: allright, guess i gotta figure out how to set different wireless keys for different networks then.
Nov 02 23:09:12 <mwester_> But if there is much opportunity for improvement, wouldn't we see boots from SD card being much faster than jffs2?
Nov 02 23:09:17 <mwester_> Is that the case currently?
Nov 02 23:10:44 <Kensan> mwester_: hm don't know. I did all my bootcharting booting from internal flash.
Nov 02 23:11:01 <mwester_> If it helps, we should add it.
Nov 02 23:11:07 <raster> mwester_: technically we should be able to get 6mb/sec off internal flash
Nov 02 23:11:51 <raster> mwester_: 4mb/s shoudl be more than doable
Nov 02 23:11:57 <raster> and not with a lot of cpu overhead
Nov 02 23:12:07 <mwester_> Hmm... but theoretically, anyway, we should get 10mb from SD card -- I just don't know if it the SD can sustain that, and how much that's affected by graphics.
Nov 02 23:12:08 <raster> at least according to my sources inside samsung
Nov 02 23:12:24 <raster> who kind of look oddly at me when i asked them about this
Nov 02 23:12:25 <raster> :)
Nov 02 23:12:49 <Kensan> raster: why's that?
Nov 02 23:12:54 <raster> mwester_:  and i doubt u'll get 10mb - lats time i did tests on glamo rea/writes that was 7m/sec
Nov 02 23:13:04 <mwester_> Ouch.
Nov 02 23:13:12 <raster> and that of course meant 100% cpu as u were stuck in waitstates
Nov 02 23:13:13 <mwester_> So the fast SD cards do no good at all.
Nov 02 23:13:18 <raster> yup
Nov 02 23:13:28 <raster> and while u're at it cpu will be clogged doing nothng but glamo io
Nov 02 23:13:45 <raster> as glamo is on the bus as if it were a ram chip
Nov 02 23:13:50 <raster> and thus holds the whole soc is waitstates
Nov 02 23:13:58 <bumbl_> raster: so the freerunner has nothing comparable to dma?
Nov 02 23:14:01 <raster> thats why performance is so bad with glamo and gfx
Nov 02 23:14:05 <raster> any read/writes are hostage
Nov 02 23:14:08 <raster> not async
Nov 02 23:14:12 <SpeedEvil> It has DMA
Nov 02 23:14:17 <mwester_> So in reality, we might get better overall performance from the internal flash, with the right FS on it.
Nov 02 23:14:19 <raster> bumbl_:  it does. it doesnt work
Nov 02 23:14:22 <SpeedEvil> But the memory controller can only do one thing at once.
Nov 02 23:14:22 <raster> well it does
Nov 02 23:14:26 <raster> but its even slower
Nov 02 23:14:35 <bumbl_> wtf?
Nov 02 23:14:44 <raster> it has rdma for specific peripherals (audio, etc.)
Nov 02 23:14:50 <raster> also ram->ram dma
Nov 02 23:15:03 <raster> there was an early experiment to get ram->ram dma working
Nov 02 23:15:07 <Kensan> mwester_: I think the internal flash has it's own bag of issues.
Nov 02 23:15:10 <raster> stuff adeded to kernel to support it
Nov 02 23:15:12 <raster> then used for glamo
Nov 02 23:15:16 <raster> throughput went DOWN
Nov 02 23:15:23 <raster> there are limits with dma
Nov 02 23:15:29 <raster> 1. doesnt grok virtual memory
Nov 02 23:15:42 <raster> so u need to program it to handle fragmented memory runs manually
Nov 02 23:15:59 <mwester_> Kensan: I suspect there are compromises there as well, but it's probably worth exploring.
Nov 02 23:16:00 <raster> 2. does have setup costs and u need to poll to see when its available next (i think)
Nov 02 23:16:14 <raster> 3. so its only useful for big lumsp of ram that are not that fragmented
Nov 02 23:16:32 <Kensan> mwester_: did you read harald's blog post about it?
Nov 02 23:16:34 <Kensan> mwester_: http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2008/10/27#20081027-nand_speed
Nov 02 23:16:36 <SpeedEvil> scatter-gatehr DMA hardware is so nice.
Nov 02 23:16:37 <raster> the actual performance results showed that it got at best 50% the speed of "mov" with the cpu
Nov 02 23:16:46 <raster> SpeedEvil:  it is. 2442 doesn thave it
Nov 02 23:16:47 <raster> :(
Nov 02 23:16:54 <bumbl_> :( 
Nov 02 23:16:57 <raster> anyway
Nov 02 23:17:02 <raster> result was a dismal failure
Nov 02 23:17:06 <raster> blame me for that
Nov 02 23:17:10 <bumbl_> anyway: good night
Nov 02 23:17:12 <raster> i thought it'd free up the cpu
Nov 02 23:17:13 <raster> it didnt
Nov 02 23:17:20 <raster> it ALSO locked the soc up while doing dma
Nov 02 23:17:25 <raster> so it 1. gt < 1/2 the speed
Nov 02 23:17:28 <raster> 2. still locked it up
Nov 02 23:17:37 <bumbl_> :C
Nov 02 23:17:43 <raster> 3. wasted time and effort to try the experiment
Nov 02 23:17:54 <raster> i was wrong in hoping/assuming the 2442 was smarter :(
Nov 02 23:18:00 * SpeedEvil wonders how many man-years glamo has eaten.
Nov 02 23:18:02 <raster> so anyway
Nov 02 23:18:09 <raster> SD and gfx share the same chip (glamo)
Nov 02 23:18:11 <SpeedEvil> (on FR)
Nov 02 23:18:14 <raster> thus the same memory bus/access
Nov 02 23:18:16 <Kensan> looking at the bootcharts again jffs2_gcd seems to be coming up here and there during boot...
Nov 02 23:18:23 <raster> so any sd card io u will need to share with gfx
Nov 02 23:18:32 <raster> and it will have the same charactersitics as video access
Nov 02 23:18:38 <raster> ie - lock u up in waitstates
Nov 02 23:19:00 <SpeedEvil> :/
Nov 02 23:19:01 <raster> ad i said - last time i did actual throughput number5s i was getting about 7m/s
Nov 02 23:19:10 <raster> so any sd card that does better than that will be limited anyway
Nov 02 23:19:13 <Kensan> patch seems to apply... gonna give it a try
Nov 02 23:19:20 <raster> and u'll be hammering the cpu just to do the copies
Nov 02 23:20:24 <t_s_o> i understand that GTA03 will drop glamo?
Nov 02 23:20:40 <raster> yes
Nov 02 23:20:48 <raster> it means no gfx accel at all is possible
Nov 02 23:20:58 <raster> and u'll lose a certain % of memory bandwidth to lcd refresh
Nov 02 23:21:21 <raster> but overall i think u'll see similar or much better performance for everything EXCEPT video playback
Nov 02 23:21:51 <SpeedEvil> except video playback in exactly the right format.
Nov 02 23:22:07 <raster> ?
Nov 02 23:22:15 <SpeedEvil> GTA01 can already do VCD at reasonable FPS.
Nov 02 23:22:19 <raster> i mean gta03 - if its a 2442
Nov 02 23:22:23 <raster> will be "worse" for vieeo playback
Nov 02 23:22:27 <raster> as u have no codec accel
Nov 02 23:22:32 <raster> nor yuv->rgb+scale help
Nov 02 23:22:35 <SpeedEvil> Add 2* faster CPU and it should be possible.
Nov 02 23:22:48 <raster> glamo could do 1 codec (mp4)
Nov 02 23:22:54 <raster> and even then it'll have limits
Nov 02 23:22:59 <Kensan> raster: it will be s3c610
Nov 02 23:22:59 <raster> it can do yuv->rgb + scale
Nov 02 23:23:15 <SpeedEvil> GTA01 got - with my tests some time ago - about 20-24fps with normal VCD class imagery.
Nov 02 23:23:19 <raster> but i think i calculated that to have a limti ov about 352x280 or so @ 30fps
Nov 02 23:23:21 <raster> oir something
Nov 02 23:23:24 <raster> let me calculate it
Nov 02 23:23:32 <raster> oh wait\
Nov 02 23:23:37 <raster> thats right
Nov 02 23:23:43 <SpeedEvil> raster: what's the screen on GTA03?
Nov 02 23:23:46 <raster> um 320x240 vide managed 21fps
Nov 02 23:23:51 <raster> its ont he mailing list
Nov 02 23:24:01 <raster> as u lose cpu cycles in copying yuv to glamo
Nov 02 23:24:06 <raster> so u need some left to do the decode
Nov 02 23:24:12 <raster> SpeedEvil: same as best i know
Nov 02 23:24:19 <SpeedEvil> raster: yeah - that's about what I was getting - not expanded or anything - just pasted on the buffer. in the wrong aspect ratio.
Nov 02 23:24:19 <raster> personalyl i know u guys hate it
Nov 02 23:24:34 <raster> but i think a 320x480 or 272x480 3" lcd would be better for the gta03
Nov 02 23:24:36 <raster> fewer pixels
Nov 02 23:24:36 <SpeedEvil> s/aspect ratio/orientation/
Nov 02 23:24:36 <apt> SpeedEvil meant: raster: yeah - that's about what I was getting - not expanded or anything - just pasted on the buffer. in the wrong orientation.
Nov 02 23:24:42 <raster> but much easier to fill smoothly
Nov 02 23:24:44 * mwester_ thinks that would be ok.
Nov 02 23:25:07 <raster> SpeedEvil:  ooh just pasted
Nov 02 23:25:09 <SpeedEvil> A nice fast rotate is needed I guess.
Nov 02 23:25:15 <raster> i am also throwing in needing to expand/scale
Nov 02 23:25:20 <raster> no scaling cuts out a lot of work
Nov 02 23:25:29 <SpeedEvil> Yeah.
Nov 02 23:25:35 <raster> but really
Nov 02 23:25:42 <SpeedEvil> If you don't need to scale, but can live at 320*240 with the LCD doubling
Nov 02 23:25:47 <raster> i think it'd be better off with a 272x480 lcd i saw
Nov 02 23:25:48 <raster> 3"
Nov 02 23:25:51 <SpeedEvil> Otherwise ther'es andohter big hit.
Nov 02 23:25:52 <raster> lots of .jp phones use that lcd
Nov 02 23:25:57 <raster> and they look gorgeous
Nov 02 23:26:12 <SpeedEvil> I somewhat disagree with the size.
Nov 02 23:26:22 <SpeedEvil> However I agree that 285dpi is overkill.
Nov 02 23:26:28 <raster> yeah
Nov 02 23:26:30 <raster> it is nice
Nov 02 23:26:32 <raster> dont get me wrong
Nov 02 23:26:43 <raster> but - there is a fairly hefty price to pay
Nov 02 23:26:44 <SpeedEvil> 180-220 would be ballpark as 'as good as 285'.
Nov 02 23:26:50 <raster> 1. lcd refresh eats mem bandwidth
Nov 02 23:26:59 <raster> 2. cpu grunt needed just to fill/mnaipulate that many pixels
Nov 02 23:27:14 <SpeedEvil> 1) I don't know how large teh buffer on the video hardware is.
Nov 02 23:27:26 <SpeedEvil> 1) gets a lot less nasty if it reads a line at a time.
Nov 02 23:27:32 <SpeedEvil> At max RAM speed.
Nov 02 23:27:43 <raster> SpeedEvil:  the 272x480 (widescreen) i saw was 186dpi. its really nice with actual imagery on it if u see it in a real device (i've seen it in several)
Nov 02 23:27:51 <raster> its taller than the gta02 screen
Nov 02 23:27:55 <raster> but a bit thinner
Nov 02 23:28:19 <raster> imho that'd be about the optimal screen for a gta02/03
Nov 02 23:28:22 <raster> imho
Nov 02 23:28:38 <raster> frankly my palm t650 with 320x320 is very nice
Nov 02 23:28:39 <SpeedEvil> I think it doesn't really matter much, as long as it's good and relatively large.
Nov 02 23:28:46 <raster> (slightly lower dpi - 181)
Nov 02 23:28:58 <SpeedEvil> The software is overwhelmningly more important.
Nov 02 23:29:01 <raster> yes
Nov 02 23:29:04 <mwester_> yes
Nov 02 23:29:13 <raster> this is just a platform to get things done on
Nov 02 23:29:22 <raster> as opposed to throising over the software on desktops
Nov 02 23:29:37 <raster> and saying "hey loop - it works in xephyr @ 240x320!"
Nov 02 23:29:45 <lindi-> does http://iki.fi/lindi/openmoko/crash-xglamo crash your glamo btw?
Nov 02 23:35:02 <laen> Meh this is nuts, i booted up the freerunner and was entering the code for the SIM pin, and it froze up.
Nov 02 23:35:04 <SpeedEvil> Random question. I know GSM modules are available for a few peanuts - anyone know a vendor of DECT ones?
Nov 02 23:36:27 * mwester_ waits for a report from Kensan 
Nov 02 23:45:50 <Kensan> mwester_: was off to some reallife stuff
Nov 02 23:46:08 <Kensan> mwester_: just flashed kernel. let me see if it eats my nand or something...
Nov 02 23:47:12 <mwester_> np.  It's pretty late for you, isn't it?
Nov 02 23:48:17 <Kensan> mwester_: well... it usually gets late for me so it's "business as usual" I guess :)
Nov 02 23:53:11 <Kensan> hm seems to take off a second or two but nothing all that noticeable...
Nov 02 23:57:18 <Kensan> man 20 secs for bootloader and kernel is simply ridiculous
Nov 03 00:00:45 <Kensan> ok it's 2.5 seconds faster with the patch
Nov 03 00:01:01 <mwester_> That's not a bad gain.
Nov 03 00:01:05 <Kensan> yeah
Nov 03 00:01:07 <mwester_> for a one-line patch...
Nov 03 00:01:19 <Kensan> compared to all the rest it's still not that much :(
Nov 03 00:01:28 <raster> better than nothing
Nov 03 00:01:29 <raster> :)
Nov 03 00:01:52 <Kensan> mwester_: so I would ack that patch ;) will you do the honors and put it in knife?
Nov 03 00:02:18 <Kensan> this gets illume-base-image boottime down to 47 secs
Nov 03 00:02:24 <mwester_> :)  Sure thing.  We should also send it in to the kernel mailing list -- would you do that?
Nov 03 00:02:40 <raster> 1 line
Nov 03 00:02:43 <raster> 2.5 seconds
Nov 03 00:02:55 <Kensan> right
Nov 03 00:02:58 <raster> wite 100 lines of patch at the same pseedup/line ratio
Nov 03 00:03:06 <raster> and u'll be looking at instant-boot!
Nov 03 00:03:07 <raster> :)
Nov 03 00:03:08 <Kensan> or maybe I shouldn't because it's typotime for me
Nov 03 00:03:31 <kirun> Write 200 lines, it'll boot while you're thinking about turning it on!
Nov 03 00:03:41 <Kensan> raster: yeah, andy had a comment along those very same lines for harald's nand-timing patch *heh*
Nov 03 00:03:50 <raster> hehehe
Nov 03 00:10:56 <Kensan> mwester_: ok I sent the mail to kernel.
Nov 03 00:11:44 <Dave> Kernel get signal?
Nov 03 00:11:58 <Kensan> hm when will the "big" move to 2.6.27 happen?
Nov 03 00:12:07 <Dave> haha
Nov 03 00:12:17 <Dave> after people understand 2.6.26
Nov 03 00:12:37 <Kensan> ?
Nov 03 00:12:57 <jonkristian> Is there a reason to move to 2.6.27 ?
Nov 03 00:12:59 <Kensan> argh, I knew I should have read the mail over again.
Nov 03 00:13:03 <Kensan> jonkristian: ubifs
Nov 03 00:13:18 <Kensan> jonkristian: for starters :)
Nov 03 00:14:54 <mwester_> The current "big" work was on 2.6.26, and involved a complete restructure of the OM drivers to fix up the suspend/resume ordering.
Nov 03 00:15:00 <Dave> yeah
Nov 03 00:15:03 <mwester_> There are no direct "big wins" from that.
Nov 03 00:15:13 <mwester_> Just that it's a better platform to move forward upon.
Nov 03 00:15:42 <mwester_> Part of "moving forward" is 2.6.27, and somewhere in there is fledgling support for cpu frequency changes (cesarb's work).
Nov 03 00:15:56 <Kensan> mwester_: well I think if they are serious about mainlining most kernel-patches they should be very close to current kernels.
Nov 03 00:16:12 <mwester_> So we're rather stalled on 2.6.24, waiting for Andy to get the glamo resuming properly on 2.6.26.
Nov 03 00:16:12 * raster thinks suspend/resume should die a horrible death
Nov 03 00:16:35 <Kensan> mwester_: mkay, but andy is doing Qi lately or am I mistaken?
Nov 03 00:16:35 * mwester_ agrees, but it seems we're condemned to that rather special circle of hell.
Nov 03 00:16:39 <mwester_> :(
Nov 03 00:16:40 <Kensan> just judging by the commits...
Nov 03 00:16:50 <mwester_> That's why I get so depressed.
Nov 03 00:16:56 <raster> mwester_:  :(
Nov 03 00:16:59 <mwester_> All I see is work on GTA03 (such as Qi).
Nov 03 00:17:03 <Kensan> yeah
Nov 03 00:17:07 <Dave> Yeah :[
Nov 03 00:17:08 <mwester_> and no progress on the GTA02 issues.
Nov 03 00:17:15 <jonkristian> !
Nov 03 00:17:17 <raster> i stil lsee idiots goin "usb goes away when it suspends"
Nov 03 00:17:24 <raster> or "my ssh connection doesnt work when it suspends"
Nov 03 00:17:26 <raster> idiots
Nov 03 00:17:30 <raster> orf course it feckin doesnt
Nov 03 00:17:30 <Kensan> raster: heh
Nov 03 00:17:35 <raster> its SUSPENDED
Nov 03 00:17:59 <CVirus> me backlight turns off during suspend :-(
Nov 03 00:18:13 <raster> if we didnt suspend.. we wouldn't have to worry about this kind of "Special" idiot. :)
Nov 03 00:18:13 <CVirus> :-p
Nov 03 00:18:25 <mwester_> well, yes we would
Nov 03 00:18:44 <raster> mwester_: i can bet u al work wil be gta03 - community can worry about gta02
Nov 03 00:18:45 <mwester_> at a certain point, we would turn of USB as the host clock slows... it's a peripheral.
Nov 03 00:19:01 <mwester_> raster: like the GTA01.  :(
Nov 03 00:19:01 <raster> the only work for gta02 will be gta03 applicable stuff too
Nov 03 00:19:02 <SpeedEvil> CPU can go ratehr slow before USB has to be turned off.
Nov 03 00:19:15 <mwester_> SpeedEvil: I thought there were timing problems, though...
Nov 03 00:19:18 <raster> so if its insta-backport (ie works the same on both) gta02 wins
Nov 03 00:19:19 <Kensan> so early adopsters get royally shagged again with GTA02, the same as with Neo...
Nov 03 00:19:23 <Kensan> adopters
Nov 03 00:19:27 <Kensan> damnit
Nov 03 00:19:40 <SpeedEvil> mwester-trip: I don't know - I've only really glanced at it.
Nov 03 00:19:49 <raster> SpeedEvil:  yeah. i actually get my gta02 to stay up all night
Nov 03 00:19:54 <raster> and in the morning battery is 1/2 full
Nov 03 00:19:56 <raster> or so
Nov 03 00:20:02 <raster> and thats without suspending anything
Nov 03 00:20:15 <raster> Kensan:  thats my guess/bet
Nov 03 00:20:29 <raster> tho gta02 is really an ugly prototype
Nov 03 00:20:32 <raster> the inset screen
Nov 03 00:20:38 <raster> bugge-rall buttons
Nov 03 00:20:49 <raster> and glamo experiment
Nov 03 00:21:10 <mwester_> But the problem is that's not how it was intended to be.
Nov 03 00:21:18 <Kensan> raster: well I am hoping that swisscom will release their case-design under CC soon so I can swap out the current case with that.
Nov 03 00:21:29 * mwester_ doesn't know about that
Nov 03 00:21:38 <raster> mwester_: thats not the way it was mnarketed/publicised
Nov 03 00:21:41 <raster> sure
Nov 03 00:21:53 <raster> but looking at it technically/cricitcally
Nov 03 00:21:55 <raster> thats just what it is
Nov 03 00:22:00 <raster> just for one
Nov 03 00:22:01 <Dave> It's you, raster!
Nov 03 00:22:11 <raster> i cant believe u can ship a touchscreen hpone intended to be used with a FINGER
Nov 03 00:22:15 <raster> and have the screen indented like that
Nov 03 00:22:18 <raster> not flush
Nov 03 00:22:31 <mwester_> good point
Nov 03 00:22:38 <raster> it has no holder for a stylus - thus is not meant to be used with one
Nov 03 00:22:39 <raster> :)
Nov 03 00:22:55 <raster> that is just a big flashing "hi - i'm an engineering prototype" light for me
Nov 03 00:22:57 <raster> ie
Nov 03 00:22:58 <Kensan> raster: that's why they ship the pen which you can't stow away anywhere....
Nov 03 00:23:02 <mwester_> But what would be involved for OM to have raised the screen from the circuit board so the bevel was not so deep?
Nov 03 00:23:04 <raster> real hw for engineering/testers to play with
Nov 03 00:23:12 <raster> get suspend/resum/power/and basic ui right
Nov 03 00:23:20 <raster> and just "assume" the screne will get fixed when it's out for real
Nov 03 00:23:27 <raster> ie if u cant quite hit a corner
Nov 03 00:23:28 <raster> dont worry
Nov 03 00:23:31 <raster> u will be able to later
Nov 03 00:23:36 <raster> grow smaller fingers for now
Nov 03 00:23:37 <raster> :)
Nov 03 00:23:47 <mwester_> Well, from a quantity point of view, I suspect that companies like Motorola and Nokia probably run as many engineering samples as the production runs for the GTA02 were...
Nov 03 00:23:51 <raster> mwester_:  new case
Nov 03 00:23:59 <raster> and new case would have been a big expense
Nov 03 00:24:02 <raster> design then moulds
Nov 03 00:24:19 <mwester_> Ok, so no timing/electrical issues that couldn't be solved.
Nov 03 00:24:21 <SpeedEvil> Hire craftsmen to carve them out of walnut.
Nov 03 00:24:25 <SpeedEvil> It's a selling point!
Nov 03 00:24:34 * mwester_ has a router
Nov 03 00:24:38 <raster> SpeedEvil: if in china.. that might actually be cheaper! :)
Nov 03 00:24:43 <Dave> :D
Nov 03 00:24:48 <SpeedEvil> raster: you know what'd happen.
Nov 03 00:24:56 <SpeedEvil> raster: we'd end up with crumbly edible cases.
Nov 03 00:25:01 <raster> hahahahaha
Nov 03 00:25:11 <raster> "yum... breakfast phone!"
Nov 03 00:25:16 <Dave> Delicious!
Nov 03 00:25:20 <Dave> dhone?
Nov 03 00:25:22 <raster> seriously
Nov 03 00:25:26 <mwester_> Make 'em from milk powder.  I understand that's not edible in China.
Nov 03 00:25:28 <raster> gta02 is a goiod solid prototype
Nov 03 00:25:40 <raster> in the world of prototypes
Nov 03 00:26:53 <raster> but as software was nowhere near ready (power management (suspend/resume/clock freq changing), driver performace, letalone userspace ui and infra, gsm modem bugs, wifi driver bugs, and sheer lack of testing of things like bluetooth etc.)
Nov 03 00:27:10 <raster> a gta02 would be somethnig to use to at leats get those in order
Nov 03 00:27:21 <raster> and just sell them to "the community" to have them fix it for u
Nov 03 00:27:22 <raster> :)
Nov 03 00:29:12 <Kensan> raster: well I think userspace will be coming along now that fso is stabilizing.
Nov 03 00:29:41 <Kensan> raster: as virtually everybody agrees OM should really focus on what they said they would in the "back to basics" bit...
Nov 03 00:29:49 <raster> yes
Nov 03 00:30:00 <raster> but trust me
Nov 03 00:30:17 <raster> they're still wanting to do their own gui design and ideas for gta03
Nov 03 00:30:38 <Kensan> raster: well I don't care if at least the basics are solid.
Nov 03 00:30:40 <raster> they arent goign to just go "take what we get from the open source and make the core just work before trying to do fancy ui design"
Nov 03 00:30:43 <Kensan> which arent
Nov 03 00:30:46 <Kensan> for crying out loud
Nov 03 00:31:05 <raster> oh - trust me. people are goign to sink mych time and effort tyring to implement the ui changes
Nov 03 00:31:07 * mwester_ is not too impressed by the "back to basics" bit so far... very few tickets closed, no progress on the Calypso, no progress on the suspend/resume issues...  
Nov 03 00:31:10 <raster> instead of other important things
Nov 03 00:31:29 <SpeedEvil> UI changes.
Nov 03 00:31:30 <Kensan> oh ok so they are keen on doing the mistake for the 4th time?
Nov 03 00:31:31 <raster> imho back to basics does include a usable working wm/desktop/launcehr and app manager
Nov 03 00:31:41 <Kensan> :(
Nov 03 00:31:45 <Dave> shit, I hope I didn't fry my internal audio
Nov 03 00:31:46 <raster> as well as core basic but working phone apps
Nov 03 00:31:55 <raster> dialling, incoming calls, sms edit/read
Nov 03 00:32:01 <jonkristian> Dave: still problem?
Nov 03 00:32:01 <raster> and otherwise config for everything
Nov 03 00:32:06 <Kensan> ok then I completely misread that posting.
Nov 03 00:32:10 <raster> wifi, bt, gsm/gprs data sessions etc.)
Nov 03 00:32:14 <Kensan> and so did everybody else I guess.
Nov 03 00:32:18 <raster> who cases how simple the ui is to use
Nov 03 00:32:19 <raster> or hard
Nov 03 00:32:21 <raster> or complicated
Nov 03 00:32:29 <raster> or if the colors/fonts/alignments are right
Nov 03 00:32:33 <raster> just make it work
Nov 03 00:32:33 <Dave> :(
Nov 03 00:32:37 <raster> worry about all that some other day
Nov 03 00:32:45 <Kensan> they should take their visionary hats of and put on the engineering gear...
Nov 03 00:32:48 <Dave> jonkristian: well I just started an audio stream, and noticed the internal isn't doing anything
Nov 03 00:32:49 <raster> or just take what u get and re-use existing widgets/themes/layouts/apps/infra
Nov 03 00:32:51 <Dave> :x
Nov 03 00:33:10 <jonkristian> Dave: hm, you've abviously checked levels and settings in alsamixer ?
Nov 03 00:33:16 <raster> Kensan:  not going to happen. company isnt run by eningeers
Nov 03 00:33:23 <raster> its run by "visionaries"
Nov 03 00:33:50 <Dave> FUCK
Nov 03 00:33:50 * mwester_ mutters something about the visionaries seeming to chase away the engineers
Nov 03 00:33:51 <SpeedEvil> Which is fine.
Nov 03 00:33:57 <SpeedEvil> If they stick with a vision.
Nov 03 00:33:57 <Kensan> well this makes me feel quite bad for the few engineers they hired...
Nov 03 00:33:58 <Dave> jonkristian: the external jack outputs stereo sound fine
Nov 03 00:34:07 <Dave> but when I disconnect it, nothing plays on the freerunner speakers :(
Nov 03 00:34:09 <raster> hey
Nov 03 00:34:11 <Dave> I think they're fried.
Nov 03 00:34:11 <raster> its their company
Nov 03 00:34:14 <raster> let them do what they want
Nov 03 00:34:20 <raster> its their business and product
Nov 03 00:34:22 <raster> not yours
Nov 03 00:34:36 <mwester_> which is why the FSO/treo 650 project is interesting.
Nov 03 00:34:38 <jonkristian> Dave: isn't that a bug then, did you try rebooting and test, without pluggin in headphones to begin with?
Nov 03 00:34:38 <raster> if u were a shareholder i could understand your being pissed off
Nov 03 00:34:42 <raster> i know i would be
Nov 03 00:34:46 <SpeedEvil> raster: nothing wrong with wishing that they'd make oodles of money by getting it right.
Nov 03 00:34:49 <Dave> yes
Nov 03 00:35:03 <Kensan> the thing is, that I believe in the "vision" and think it's a worthwhile goal to try to implement.
Nov 03 00:35:05 <SpeedEvil> Maybe even oodooloplexes.
Nov 03 00:35:06 <raster> SpeedEvil:  *if* :)
Nov 03 00:35:21 <raster> i dont care  if they make a bucketload of money
Nov 03 00:35:24 <raster> goopd for them
Nov 03 00:35:29 <Kensan> but obviously it's not going to happen if you do it that way...
Nov 03 00:35:37 <raster> but dont expect them to focus on engineering stuff
Nov 03 00:35:41 <raster> like technical core details
Nov 03 00:35:48 <raster> and solve technical existing problems
Nov 03 00:36:00 <SpeedEvil> Technical core details are the wrong place for the leaders to be focussed.
Nov 03 00:36:00 <raster> eg
Nov 03 00:36:08 <raster> if an app wants to be fullscreen and doesnt have vkb support
Nov 03 00:36:11 <raster> how do u enter text?
Nov 03 00:36:22 <SpeedEvil> But they need to understand engineering fundamentals, pick a horse, and let it run.
Nov 03 00:36:28 <Kensan> well if they don't this project is not going to turn any profit for them imho so it would be in their own interest to listen to the community.
Nov 03 00:36:32 <raster> or how dop u quit a fullscrene app that doesnt offer a way to quit on the screen?
Nov 03 00:36:36 <raster> not goign to solve that
Nov 03 00:36:44 <raster> just going to go redesign the ui :)
Nov 03 00:36:47 * SpeedEvil passes raster a hardware button.
Nov 03 00:37:05 <raster> SpeedEvil:  ooh thats busy suspending and powering down :)
Nov 03 00:37:12 <SpeedEvil> morse.
Nov 03 00:37:12 <raster> and the other is busy lokcing the screen
Nov 03 00:37:13 <raster> \:)
Nov 03 00:37:16 <raster> hehehe
Nov 03 00:37:18 <raster> sure
Nov 03 00:37:22 <raster> but no one is goign to SOLVE it
Nov 03 00:37:30 <raster> mechanisms exist
Nov 03 00:37:34 <raster> well some
Nov 03 00:37:40 <raster> u need to plug them together
Nov 03 00:37:59 <SpeedEvil> retracile: <raster> SpeedEvil:  *if* :)
Nov 03 00:38:03 <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/If
Nov 03 00:38:11 <SpeedEvil>  re: rather
Nov 03 00:38:39 <Kensan> well I am off. need to catch some sleep
Nov 03 00:38:45 <SpeedEvil> Kensan: wave.
Nov 03 00:39:05 <mwester_> good night, Kensan.
Nov 03 00:39:18 <Kensan> mwester_: btw, I sent the mail to kernel.
Nov 03 00:39:26 <mwester_> cool.  :)
Nov 03 00:39:32 <Kensan> oh I already mentioned that. hmmmm
Nov 03 00:39:36 <raster> lets see
Nov 03 00:39:53 <Dave> :|
Nov 03 00:40:03 <Dave> Joerg, to the rescue!
Nov 03 00:40:04 * Kensan should go to bed.
Nov 03 00:40:05 <Kensan> lol
Nov 03 00:40:11 <raster> but i suspect there will be more visionary ui enhancements from their amazing ui design department. and work will be put into making that happne for gta03
Nov 03 00:40:26 <raster> as of course being an asian company run by westerners but that has been asianified
Nov 03 00:40:40 <raster> all good workers must do as they are told
Nov 03 00:40:41 <raster> :)
Nov 03 00:40:48 <Kensan> banzaiii!
Nov 03 00:40:55 <hipitihop> mwester_, any kernel updates suitable with qtextended since http://moko.mwester.net/download/uImage-gta02-g291a9d50_mwester-stable.bin ?
Nov 03 00:41:05 <Kensan> night all
Nov 03 00:42:37 <DocScrutinizer2> Dave: rescue Ur spkrs? simple: load correct statefile
Nov 03 00:42:48 <mwester_> hipitihop: yes, but I haven't assembled a kernel for that yet.
Nov 03 00:43:04 <Dave> doc, they were recently surged
Nov 03 00:43:06 <DocScrutinizer2> Dave: or rescue from visionaires?
Nov 03 00:43:10 <Dave> you think they could have been fried.
Nov 03 00:43:12 <DocScrutinizer2> :-)
Nov 03 00:43:14 <Dave> I think, rather.
Nov 03 00:43:19 <Dave> popped likely
Nov 03 00:43:21 <hipitihop> mwester, thanks, so I'll stay with that for fixed 4.4.2 for now
Nov 03 00:43:28 <Dave> but you're right, it's possible it's just that, but I don't see how.
Nov 03 00:43:34 <Dave> statefiles are for the AUDIO right?
Nov 03 00:43:47 <Dave> Joerg, it's playing FINE through the external audio jack.
Nov 03 00:43:48 <DocScrutinizer2> yup
Nov 03 00:43:52 <Dave> When I unplug it, I hear nothing.
Nov 03 00:43:56 <Dave> :(
Nov 03 00:44:09 <Dave> So I figured it is possible I have broken them.
Nov 03 00:44:12 <DocScrutinizer2> load correct state
Nov 03 00:44:17 <Dave> which is? :D
Nov 03 00:44:23 <Dave> an older working one?
Nov 03 00:44:36 <DocScrutinizer2> gsmhandset.state maybe?
Nov 03 00:44:40 <Dave> hmm
Nov 03 00:44:45 <Dave> isn't it alsactl -f ?
Nov 03 00:44:54 <DocScrutinizer2> yup
Nov 03 00:45:04 <Dave> oh fuck, I need to go find a working usb bus first
Nov 03 00:45:05 <Dave> haha
Nov 03 00:45:10 <DocScrutinizer2> restore
Nov 03 00:45:14 <Dave> yeah
Nov 03 00:46:05 <DocScrutinizer2> can do that on FR xterm
Nov 03 00:46:18 <Dave> annoying, but yes
Nov 03 00:46:25 <Dave> I mean it's hardly a big deal for me
Nov 03 00:46:43 <Dave> but I should probably look into it.
Nov 03 00:46:57 <DocScrutinizer2> cd, cd, cd, cd, alsactl   :-D
Nov 03 00:48:33 <tomboy64> how do i check in fso whether gps is up and attempting to get a fix?
Nov 03 00:49:56 <SpeedEvil> tombhadAC: I'm unsure if cat /dev/ttySAC1 will work
Nov 03 00:50:07 <SpeedEvil> tomb:
Nov 03 00:50:29 <SpeedEvil> koo: :/
Nov 03 00:50:32 <SpeedEvil> oops
Nov 03 01:48:44 <CIA-50> openmoko: 03werner * r4744 10/developers/werner/wlan-spi/patches-tracking/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
Nov 03 01:48:44 <CIA-50> openmoko: More cleanup and a little priority boost for the io task.
Nov 03 01:48:44 <CIA-50> openmoko: - moved hif-direct-interrupt.patch and hack-dont-poll-irq.patch to the attic as
Nov 03 01:48:44 <CIA-50> openmoko:  well
Nov 03 01:48:44 <CIA-50> openmoko: - gta02-mmc-spi-bitbang.patch, last of the SPI drivers, to the attic
Nov 03 01:48:47 <CIA-50> openmoko: - gta02-mmc-mci.patch: since S3C MCI is now the only SDIO low-level driver, we
Nov 03 01:48:49 <CIA-50> openmoko:  don't have to be able to select it by configuration
Nov 03 01:50:46 <CIA-50> openmoko: 03werner * r4745 10/developers/werner/wlan-perf/report: 
Nov 03 01:50:46 <CIA-50> openmoko: - don't pass around bytes and time separate, use the rate instead
Nov 03 01:50:46 <CIA-50> openmoko: - print "*1000B" instead of ambiguous "kB"
Nov 03 01:50:46 <CIA-50> openmoko: - compute standard deviation in new function std_dev
Nov 03 01:52:25 <slaxxin> planet wars begin
Nov 03 02:00:15 <hipitihop> does scp support recreating subdirectories recursively to the destination ? I'm trying to backup my /home/root/Documents from my FR
Nov 03 02:00:24 <SpeedEvil> scp -R
Nov 03 02:00:25 <SpeedEvil> scp -r
Nov 03 02:00:27 * SpeedEvil is unsure.
Nov 03 02:00:59 <SpeedEvil> ssh root@phone tar -cvf - /root |tar -xvf - 
Nov 03 02:00:59 <hipitihop> used -r and -p but does not create the subdirectories, just dumps files from all subdirectories
Nov 03 02:01:01 <SpeedEvil> or similar
Nov 03 02:07:33 <CIA-50> openmoko: 03werner * r4746 10/developers/werner/wlan-spi/patches-tracking/ (ar6k-without-sdio.patch series): 
Nov 03 02:07:33 <CIA-50> openmoko: Final cosmetics.
Nov 03 02:07:33 <CIA-50> openmoko: - series: also remove any pre-existing target directory in the non-git
Nov 03 02:07:33 <CIA-50> openmoko:  instructions
Nov 03 02:07:34 <CIA-50> openmoko: - ar6k-without-sdio.patch: make AR6k config message look less anemic
Nov 03 02:08:49 <laen> mwester_: Would you be so kind to tell me how to get the modules on the freerunner once Qtopia is installed?
Nov 03 02:12:57 <slaxxin> sounds likeCIA-50 is fixing to push up another image
Nov 03 02:20:10 <mwester> slaxxin:  just commits of Werner's work with the wifi chip stuff, probably for the 2.6.26 or 2.6.27 kernel.
Nov 03 02:20:48 <mwester> laen:  Sure -- just download the minimal module set, then scp them to your freerunner, and un-tar them while cd'd to "/"
Nov 03 02:24:12 <slaxxin> http://markhk.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008825129102/pdtl/Multi-card/1002064868/USB-Card-Reader.htm
Nov 03 02:25:33 <_charly_> nice, we've got the gsm firmware and the flashing tool :)
Nov 03 02:25:55 <slaxxin> go for it
Nov 03 02:27:09 <laen> mwester: that wasn't the hard part, but my problem is getting an ssh connection (which worked with OM 2008.* releases).
Nov 03 02:27:40 <laen> ssh: connect to host 12.168.0.202 port 22: No route to host
Nov 03 02:27:43 <mwester> laen:  the necessary modules to get the usb networking running are included.
Nov 03 02:27:48 <mwester> in-kernel.
Nov 03 02:28:01 <laen> Yeah the usb0 on my pc starts indeed, true there.
Nov 03 02:28:06 <slaxxin> fast boot image was fast
Nov 03 02:28:21 <mwester> No route to host would indicate that the port is not up, or it is not "ifconfig'd" correctly on the host.
Nov 03 02:28:55 <laen> I didn't change anything, was ssh-ed into some OM distro's before so that worked well.
Nov 03 02:28:56 <mwester> But did you flash the kernel, or are you still running the OM 2008 kernel?
Nov 03 02:29:04 <laen> no flashed with your kernel
Nov 03 02:29:26 <mwester> Ok, no change there then.
Nov 03 02:29:40 <laen> qtextended-4.4.2-gta02-rootfs-10302135.jffs2 with uImage-gta02-g291a9d50_mwester-stable.bin
Nov 03 02:29:42 <mwester> No modules are necessary to get the USB networking working.
Nov 03 02:29:56 <laen> and the ip is still 192.168.0.202?
Nov 03 02:30:19 <mwester> That's from the rootfs on the phone, not the kernel -- but yes, the QT x images use the same IP.
Nov 03 02:31:00 <mwester> er, Qt X images.  Or is it Qt Ex? 
Nov 03 02:31:11 * mwester preferred the name Qtopia. :(
Nov 03 02:31:12 <laen> Guess i'll re-flash tomorrow and try then. Thanks so far :)
Nov 03 02:31:26 <mwester> Ok.  Good luck, it should work.
Nov 03 02:31:44 <mwester> You did try booting it twice, right?
Nov 03 02:40:14 <_charly_> good night everyone :)
Nov 03 02:50:34 <hipitihop> mwester, what is the correct untar command for your module tgz while in root of fr ?
Nov 03 02:52:11 <Dave> Laen :D
Nov 03 02:53:59 * hipitihop never mind looked up you page sorry
Nov 03 02:54:59 <mwester> hipitihop:  cd / ; tar xzf /path/to/where/you/copied/the/tarfile
Nov 03 02:58:48 <Dave> Lint
Nov 03 02:59:40 <mwester> Use some packing tape, Dave.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Nov 03 02:59:56 2008