**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 08 03:00:02 2008 Nov 08 03:01:28 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07stabilization/milestone4 * r1f497b5515e2 10framework/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/convert.py: Nov 08 03:01:28 freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: Properly encode and decode the address in gsm default alphabet Nov 08 03:01:28 freesmartphone.org: If the address is alphanumeric it's encoded in the 7-bit GSM default Nov 08 03:01:28 freesmartphone.org: alphabet so handle encoding/decoding properly. Nov 08 03:01:48 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * rf6e583870213 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/convert.py: Merge branch 'stabilization/milestone4' Nov 08 03:56:34 openmoko: 03tick 07org.openmoko.dev * r27267ec80a4d 10/conf/ (checksums.ini distro/include/preferred-om-2008-versions.inc): glib-2.0: Bump up to 2.18.1 Nov 08 08:36:58 hi Nov 08 08:39:40 hi Nov 08 08:39:48 anyone knows what /media/card/qtopia_db.sqlite is for? Nov 08 08:41:18 emilis_info: you can use mysql to have a look into it. i guess it contains indormations concerning the stored data on the microsd card, like mp3s, images ... Nov 08 08:41:33 yes Nov 08 08:41:50 but why is it needed? Isn't filesystem enough for that? Nov 08 08:42:13 th fs isn't fast as the sqlite db is Nov 08 08:42:21 hmm Nov 08 08:42:38 so it's a good thing, in the wrong place in my opinion Nov 08 08:42:40 emilis_info: think of a kind of thumbnails prescan Nov 08 08:42:56 so where is the right place? Nov 08 08:43:04 hmm Nov 08 08:44:03 cjb_ie: no sorry, thinking about it it's in the right place, i was thinking putting it in flash, but if you write too much to that db the flash mem will be consumed Nov 08 08:44:13 so it's in the right place Nov 08 08:44:15 §:D Nov 08 08:44:47 anyone know any news on the WSoD? Nov 08 08:45:16 drmFlags INTEGER Nov 08 08:45:20 m0nt0: also think of what happens if you put different cards in your phone... each should really have its own db Nov 08 08:45:25 I feel offended Nov 08 08:45:37 wasn't this supposed to be a free phone Nov 08 08:45:41 and all that Nov 08 08:45:41 :) Nov 08 08:46:48 cjb_ie: yeah thinking about it it's in the right place, it's quit annoying that you cannot simply umount the sd partition because that file is used but it's ok, i don't use qt or qte Nov 08 08:47:31 The name of the file could be different IMHO Nov 08 08:47:37 m0nt0: i think only the first partition is scanned Nov 08 08:47:46 yeah i know Nov 08 08:48:04 I wanted to backup my contacts DB. Guess what would have happened if I tried to just copy it into /media/card Nov 08 08:48:07 m0nt0: there should be no problem using a small 1st partition Nov 08 08:48:26 but if you want to umount it you have to do somethink like kill xserver-nodm :D Nov 08 08:48:51 (don't want to know what process use that file,) Nov 08 08:49:53 m0nt0: okay, you are using 2008.x Nov 08 08:50:46 no, i'm using FSO or debian, i'd like to use them but i'm a poor guy affcted by the WSoD so the neo isn't my phone at least for now Nov 08 08:51:23 Hi. I was interested in buying a Freerunner, but I wanted to ask two questions. I looked in the wiki and there's reports of the sim card I currently have both working and not working, I was wondering how big of an issue sim compatibility currently is? I also wanted to know how well it works as a phone? Nov 08 08:51:57 the WSoD before was given only at suspend time, now it appears also if the screen is off so i can't keep the phone running for a good amount of hours with no suspend and the screen on Nov 08 08:51:58 m0nt0: i see. i dont use teh freerunner for my daily phone because of the poor gsm audio quality Nov 08 08:52:55 BluesLee: no i don't mind about that, with some alsa setting you could reach a quite good sound, at least for me Nov 08 08:53:16 let's say that the WSoD is THE blocker bug for me Nov 08 08:53:19 m0nt0: its hard to calibrate the handset file Nov 08 08:53:43 m0nt0: i lost all of my friends since i own a freerunner;-) Nov 08 08:54:07 BluesLee: chuck norris, jackie chan ... hehe Nov 08 08:54:24 BluesLee: yea i know, but it can be done, just ssh to FR make a friend call you explaining the situation, alsamixer and play with that Nov 08 08:54:25 m0nt0: but your issue is a big one Nov 08 08:54:27 hmm Nov 08 08:54:32 BluesLee: ahahahah i see Nov 08 08:55:05 my wife is telling me that if she buy a phone she pretend at least that it will work as a phone Nov 08 08:55:27 my wife threatened to throw my FR out the window :( Nov 08 08:55:32 but hey my FR does everything except being a phone :D Nov 08 08:55:36 ahahahahah Nov 08 08:55:44 teay are all the same Nov 08 08:55:48 *they Nov 08 08:55:48 ;) Nov 08 08:55:50 :D Nov 08 08:55:54 :D Nov 08 08:56:01 m0nt0: the gsm audio quality is really hard to calibrate as it depends on many things, the environment, maybe the provider ... Nov 08 08:56:34 BluesLee: yeah i know but it can be quite good or at least acceptable Nov 08 08:56:46 on the other hand, here I am, two days without anyone calling me, and I don't know if no one really called, or the latest image I installed fscked up gsm again... Nov 08 08:56:56 ahahahahah Nov 08 08:57:06 i wonder if distance from cell (audio lag) is a factor Nov 08 08:57:08 emilis_info: good no? Nov 08 08:57:10 okay, will play a little bit Nov 08 08:57:22 or delays within the cell network Nov 08 08:57:26 I guess I have to go call myself from my wife's phone ) Nov 08 08:57:27 :) Nov 08 08:57:29 may be ii'll put FR as my work phone, ahhh a good relaxing day Nov 08 08:57:58 actually gsm disconnects are the only blocker for me Nov 08 08:58:27 audio quallity is not that much of an issue -- other people complain, but I hear them fine Nov 08 08:58:28 :) Nov 08 08:58:40 but just to understand the WSoD is because there are different hardware revisions? Nov 08 08:58:51 but I had gsm disconnects with all images I tried (2007, FSO, 2008.8) Nov 08 08:59:00 maybe it is a HW issue... Nov 08 08:59:15 emilis_info: qtextended and mwester kernel? Nov 08 08:59:33 m0nt0, haven't tried Nov 08 08:59:37 where do I get these? Nov 08 08:59:52 currently I use latest FDOM Nov 08 08:59:55 "my wife is telling me that if she buy a phone she pretend at least that it will work as a phone" Nov 08 09:00:05 why do women hate open source =o( Nov 08 09:01:02 Ke, I don't think they hate opensource as such, but thaey are far more practical then we tend to be, they expect basic reliable functionality, go figure :-) Nov 08 09:01:25 ke, i don't know but at the last virus she took on her pc i've deleted also the biggest virus and installed linux, she sometimes complain about something but she is quite satisfied of it's pc now Nov 08 09:02:16 yes, linux is good for my wife too Nov 08 09:02:17 :D Nov 08 09:02:32 I simply refused to support windows Nov 08 09:02:33 emilis_info: look at the community ml, someone made some fixes to that image, it's qt extended 4.4.2 distro and the kernel is at http://moko.mwester.net/dl.html#kernels Nov 08 09:03:41 i have to play with users and windows also on servers for work, at least at home i'd like to be comfortable using pc and fixing some things that could happend wit a detailed problem description in the log Nov 08 09:04:10 m0nt0: no great deal what hypnotize made there Nov 08 09:04:25 not just a blue screen or something like "hey i'm not working, try to reboot, if the problem persist try to guess where it is" Nov 08 09:05:30 m0nt0: qtextended sucks, the last 3 images from lpotter get worse, sure there are kernel issues like echo but a lot of gui issues are also there Nov 08 09:05:50 BluesLee: that why i'm not using it :D Nov 08 09:06:04 m0nt0: i am really disappointed concerning qtextented Nov 08 09:06:36 i like the lorn work but i don't like qte, no x support and some bad bugs in the latest images Nov 08 09:06:50 m0nt0: i dont mind that everything is open source so qtextended was a good compromise if it would work properly Nov 08 09:07:18 m0nt0: but lorn should do some tests before releasing Nov 08 09:07:23 let's wait for android, may be it will work quite good Nov 08 09:07:46 m0nt0: you cant make calls with the latest 4.3.2 Nov 08 09:07:47 but i'm really really waiting for FSO MS4 Nov 08 09:08:05 m0nt0: so he shouldnt release it ... Nov 08 09:08:16 m0nt0: i tested android;-) Nov 08 09:08:29 me too, not so bad Nov 08 09:08:35 yeah Nov 08 09:08:39 at least to be the first port Nov 08 09:08:43 but i cant turn of my pin Nov 08 09:08:52 so i couldnt test gsm Nov 08 09:10:29 :D Nov 08 09:10:46 m0nt0: did you made calls? Nov 08 09:10:56 no Nov 08 09:11:43 gsm was working but i didn't try the call because everythin else was slow and couldn't be used so i gave up Nov 08 09:12:14 well i think i need to go, need to clean home Nov 08 09:12:18 for me it wasnt slow Nov 08 09:12:21 okay Nov 08 09:12:23 cu Nov 08 09:12:24 see ya later Nov 08 09:21:09 hi Nov 08 09:22:10 has any one used jikes with Harmony class libraries on openmoko Nov 08 09:31:51 has anyone installed jikes VM on openmoko Nov 08 09:35:56 hello Nov 08 09:36:01 anybody there Nov 08 09:36:14 mhh yep :-) good morning Nov 08 09:37:55 do you know anything about jikes which is an opensource VM for java Nov 08 09:38:35 no sorry, i've never heard about this Nov 08 09:41:27 does debian have a package of it? :) Nov 08 09:42:02 i know gentoo have a packege ;-) Nov 08 09:42:28 http://packages.debian.org/jikes Nov 08 09:42:37 yep... Nov 08 09:43:07 does look like its a vm, its just a compiler... no? Nov 08 09:43:10 doesnt* Nov 08 09:44:11 http://pkg-fso.alioth.debian.org/debian/pool/main/j/ does not exist, http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/j/jikes/ has no armel .deb Nov 08 09:47:49 http://packages.debian.org/sid/jamvm <- this seems to be a VM Nov 08 09:48:01 and has an armel package Nov 08 09:48:23 this also: http://packages.debian.org/sid/sablevm Nov 08 09:48:33 Hi Nov 08 09:48:58 hi Nov 08 09:49:22 do you know how to install a VM on openmoko Nov 08 09:49:37 VM of what? java? Nov 08 09:49:44 yes java Nov 08 09:50:01 i know how to install one on debian Nov 08 09:50:30 apt-get install sablevm Nov 08 09:50:57 does sablevm work with Harmony class libraries Nov 08 09:51:15 actually i dont want to use sun's propreitary class libraries Nov 08 09:51:32 i dont know.. Nov 08 09:57:03 thank you "F4t" Nov 08 09:57:55 does anyone know how to install Harmony on openmoko Nov 08 10:11:18 are there any GUI text editors in the standard repositories? Nov 08 10:13:42 Im trying to compile Scite, but run into a lot of problems Nov 08 10:14:48 hmm, every time i hear Scite i want to stab people Nov 08 10:15:02 (i did read the source, now i hate) Nov 08 10:16:28 oh? Nov 08 10:17:39 the whole scintilla part or just scite itself? I've been using flos's Notepad2 for w32, and I'm trying to find something similar for the freerunner Nov 08 10:21:08 bove2: the whole scintilla part Nov 08 10:21:43 so are there any better options out there? Nov 08 10:22:10 gtksourceview seems to be evolving into a acceptable option Nov 08 10:23:38 i dont think there is a sane way to to serious text editing on the frerunner tho Nov 08 10:23:53 its a fscking mobile, not a notebook Nov 08 10:24:57 katepart? Nov 08 10:25:19 ronny: Bah, this thing is roughly ten times as powerful as my first laptop ;) Nov 08 10:25:38 leinirAWAY: it lacks keyboard and screen sizz Nov 08 10:25:46 but how does the screen resolution compare? Nov 08 10:25:47 I just got a foldable BT keyboard. Works wonderful Nov 08 10:26:02 screen size is a pain Nov 08 10:26:40 i'd go as far as declaring its eye-dammaging to do serious editing with a screen at that size Nov 08 10:27:56 but another thing is ssh -X into the freerunner to do scripting/programming more easily Nov 08 10:28:47 hmm, i'#d just mount it Nov 08 10:29:54 mount it as scp? Nov 08 10:30:15 mount as sshfs Nov 08 10:47:47 thanks for the tip ronny Nov 08 11:34:16 are there any gxmessage/xmessage or similar apps in t repos? Nov 08 11:42:55 whats the best text editor with syntax highlight for as many languages as possible for gtk+/xfce...? Nov 08 11:43:00 openmoko: 03mickey * r4774 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/daemons/neod/src/buttonactions.c: neod: patch to manually suspend and disabled wifi courtesy reddog. closes Om ticket #1365 Nov 08 11:48:07 F4t: gvim :D Nov 08 11:55:41 m0nt0, vim isnt exactly easy to use... Nov 08 11:56:02 F4t: hey Gvim has the gtk :D Nov 08 11:56:10 bah, if only someone ported notepad++ :( Nov 08 11:56:16 :D Nov 08 11:57:30 hmm... "Notepad++ is written in C++ and uses pure Win32 API and STL" Nov 08 11:57:36 that'd be a "fun" port Nov 08 11:57:42 lol Nov 08 11:57:46 wine notepad++ Nov 08 11:58:14 except it's x86 ;) Nov 08 11:58:21 wine + qemu.. maybe Nov 08 11:58:24 but that's gonna be slow Nov 08 11:58:31 or maybe you could link it against wine and recompile Nov 08 11:58:36 BobOfDoom: well another funny port! Nov 08 11:59:40 hello ! :> Nov 08 13:35:37 does anyone where can i get the package for the libmokoui2 python bindings? Nov 08 13:35:44 cause i remember there are ones. Nov 08 13:48:17 TAsnn, hi :D Nov 08 13:51:42 Fougner_, sup? Nov 08 13:52:18 * Fougner_ points up Nov 08 13:52:23 way up? Nov 08 13:52:56 TAsnn, nothing really.. need to tidy up some here.. you? Nov 08 13:53:21 wrote a couple of nice apps in the last 24hrs Nov 08 13:53:44 though i did it in account of my homework assignments which is not good ;] Nov 08 13:54:16 :o Nov 08 13:54:19 language? Nov 08 13:54:55 TAsnn, above ;D Nov 08 13:56:10 python Nov 08 13:56:21 TAsnn, yay, you're good? Nov 08 13:56:30 nah Nov 08 13:56:40 actually learned that for moko use a couple of months ago Nov 08 13:57:01 ;] Nov 08 13:57:24 though i had little time to practice, had only a tad of spare time lately. Nov 08 13:57:35 anyhow, it does what it's supposed to do. ;] Nov 08 13:57:55 mostly anyway. Nov 08 13:58:03 what apps did you code then? =P Nov 08 13:59:09 one is a simple hackish usbhost mode/bt/wifi/gsm/gprs controller Nov 08 13:59:10 http://gizmodo.com/5070738/openmoko-gta02-handset-rumored-to-join-the-android-party are you going to launch the freerunner with android? Nov 08 13:59:28 that just interacts with the framework Nov 08 14:00:01 wow, cool.. that way I can have one app for turning on all communications on the FR? :D Nov 08 14:00:03 and the second is a daemon that keeps track of phone calls and has dbus bindings to read from it. Nov 08 14:00:08 Fougner_, aye.. Nov 08 14:00:17 and a gui to read data from this daemon ;] Nov 08 14:00:20 woh.. sounds nice Nov 08 14:00:23 so i got phone log and power control. Nov 08 14:00:28 you can have the packs if you like. Nov 08 14:00:42 already packed it. Nov 08 14:00:49 it's beta though (the packages{ Nov 08 14:00:52 it's beta though (the packages) Nov 08 14:01:14 so im not sure if there will be permissions/dependencies errors. Nov 08 14:01:26 hehe, beta =D I don't know what to do with that packs anyway :P Nov 08 14:01:41 opkg install *.ipk ;] Nov 08 14:01:50 damn, something is not working right ;\ Nov 08 14:01:54 back to the drawing board. Nov 08 14:03:59 i really don't get it Nov 08 14:04:13 everything seems to be fine though it still doesn't start at boot time. Nov 08 14:04:17 oh i have an idea. Nov 08 14:05:48 TAsnn, haha, you have a monologue? ^^ Nov 08 14:06:16 ;] Nov 08 14:10:45 Fougner_, let's hope everything will work ;] Nov 08 14:11:05 iihihihihi Nov 08 14:11:09 rTorrent Nov 08 14:11:10 )D Nov 08 14:11:12 =D* Nov 08 14:11:19 you code something more except Py? Nov 08 14:13:39 i can Nov 08 14:14:08 though i don't (not for the moko anyway, although i wrote something in c for the moko a couple of months back) Nov 08 14:19:40 Hi people. :) Nov 08 14:22:23 Hi Elrond (-= Nov 08 14:23:31 Fougner_, it's working ;] Nov 08 14:23:42 Hi johngay Nov 08 14:23:43 i found the stupid mistake. Nov 08 14:24:09 Does anyone remember the short circuit problem of the gta01bv03? I need some docs on it. Nov 08 14:24:23 TAsnn, what was it? =) Nov 08 14:24:25 Anyone know if there's a root tarball for qtExt-4.4.2 yet? Nov 08 14:26:00 it's a daemon so i had to start it in the boot sequence. i wanted it to start quite soon though it had to be started after the framework because it's using a few APIs form that. till now i accidentally told my daemon to start before the framework one. Nov 08 14:26:07 johngay: just convert the jffs file Nov 08 14:26:30 TAsnn, would you like to start an IRC-channel with me? :P Nov 08 14:26:32 which is annoying because i was aware what the problem was, though i misread the number a couple of times before i realized ;] Nov 08 14:26:42 Fougner_, why would you want to do that? Nov 08 14:26:49 TAsnn, haha, I don't konw Nov 08 14:26:52 for fun Nov 08 14:26:55 I don't have the modules on my LFS box and I'm too lazy to re-build it just to extract jffs files. Nov 08 14:27:00 learn how to use eggdrop Nov 08 14:27:15 i don't have the time nor the will to open an irc chan ;] Nov 08 14:27:35 all the afternoon i told you im wasting my time on moko apps when i should be studying ;] Nov 08 14:27:49 neither have I ^^ Nov 08 14:28:07 well that's a kind of studying ^^ Nov 08 14:28:17 got to go for a moment.. wax the car :P Nov 08 14:30:54 i should wax the car as well actually Nov 08 14:30:58 im loosing my paint Nov 08 14:31:01 though im too lazy ;] Nov 08 14:46:35 hai, dent. Did you play any more with gcc yesterday? Nov 08 14:50:46 what toolchain do i want? I am on x86, and i want to compile general software for my phone. Nov 08 14:51:05 http://downloads.openmoko.org/toolchains/openmoko-x86_64-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2 Nov 08 14:51:07 this one? Nov 08 14:52:12 oh Nov 08 14:52:23 686 is x86 Nov 08 14:55:32 nvm me Nov 08 15:00:29 ljp around? Nov 08 15:08:35 TAsnn, haha okay Nov 08 15:08:42 hi yabo! = Nov 08 15:08:43 =D * Nov 08 15:11:23 hai Fougner_ Nov 08 15:11:32 brb, going to try the toolchain Nov 08 15:29:05 Hrm, is there a speaker function on the fr? Like, when receiving calls, i can put them on a speaker? Nov 08 15:32:41 Hello, how to do "make update" with MokoMakefile when I have some local modifications? Nov 08 15:33:00 wassa Nov 08 15:38:09 anyone? Nov 08 15:40:52 anyone what? Nov 08 15:41:19 anyone know how to perfomr make update with mokomakefile when some packages has local modifications? Nov 08 15:41:22 sudo find /sys /proc | grep 'event4/device/name' Nov 08 15:41:33 does not find anything but cat /sys/devices/platform/s3c2440-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/input/input4/event4/device/name prints 'GTA02 PMU events' Nov 08 15:42:20 ah, symlink Nov 08 15:45:14 It's so essential that someone should know, in other words: How do you checkout changes from other developers when you are changing something in openembedded package tree? Nov 08 15:45:49 Blackhex: git Nov 08 15:46:39 mwester: ok I'm not familiar with git, I found that git pull shoud do that but It gives me error: Entry 'conf/checksums.ini' not uptodate. Cannot merge. Nov 08 15:47:36 I'm basically looking for svn update alternative Nov 08 15:47:37 Blackhex: there are numerous tutorials for git on the web -- the openembedded wiki even has a git phrasebook. Nov 08 15:48:11 You probably need to investigate the use of the rebase argument to git. Nov 08 15:48:15 mwester: I know, I searched them first but git terminology is so different from svn that I can't understand Nov 08 15:48:19 Blackhex: git pull is this.. but it can't merge files that have both local and remote modification Nov 08 15:48:26 svn update couldn't either Nov 08 15:48:45 so can I update only those files that are not modified locally? Nov 08 15:49:25 Blackhex: that are not modified locally and modified remotely at the same time Nov 08 15:49:28 is conf/checksums.ini autogenerated? Nov 08 15:49:57 balrog-k1n: no it has my modifications but I want to update everything except my modifications Nov 08 15:50:11 Blackhex: try this: Nov 08 15:50:28 git diff > my-changes Nov 08 15:50:33 checksums.ini is not auto generated; if it is modified locally then it will conflict. Nov 08 15:50:42 patch -p 1 -R < my-changes Nov 08 15:50:45 git pull Nov 08 15:50:48 patch -p 1 < my-changes Nov 08 15:51:06 balrog-k1n: hmm thanks, I was affraid this is the only way :-( Nov 08 15:51:25 most of the time git is smart enough that you don't need to do that.. Nov 08 15:51:30 but i've never used it with OE Nov 08 15:52:19 That's basically what the rebase does. Nov 08 15:52:44 But it sounds like there's a merge conflict with checksums.ini (which is very common; it's an oft-updated file). Nov 08 15:53:52 IIRC svn up proceeds with svn up even with conlifcts bit it generates file.ref and file.orig files to resolve conflicts manually Nov 08 15:54:24 Blackhex: git does that too.. but i think the chnages need to be committed already Nov 08 15:54:59 that's a real pain when you don't have commit rights :-) Nov 08 15:55:23 Blackhex: you always have commit rights to your local copy :-) Nov 08 15:55:57 balrog-k1n: then I don't understand the words "need to be commited" Nov 08 15:56:20 commit is publicizing your changes (svn commit) Nov 08 15:56:27 Blackhex: i.e. need to not show in git diff Nov 08 15:56:30 different model Nov 08 15:56:40 git allows you to check in (commit) locally Nov 08 15:56:49 Blackhex: nope, that's only in centralised revision systems, i.e. with one repository Nov 08 15:56:57 so you have all the benefits of an SCM tool even if you cannot push your changes to the master repos. Nov 08 15:57:21 in git every checkout is a new respository Nov 08 15:57:25 mwester: hmm ok, it's getting little complicated though Nov 08 15:58:12 No, it's not complicated at all ;) It's just that it's a different way of looking at things -- once you get past that, it really is pretty simple. Nov 08 15:58:31 once you get yourself out of the '90s :p Nov 08 15:58:40 The biggest problem for me was to forget everything I thought I knew about svn, cvs, etc. Nov 08 15:58:54 all right, I' ll study git closely, thanks Nov 08 15:59:01 It'll be worth it. Nov 08 16:00:23 mwester: i saw your kernel git, nice idea Nov 08 16:01:08 :) Got any patches to commit? Nov 08 16:02:05 mwester: :-) sorry, i am not a developer ... Nov 08 16:02:38 mwester: but i see that it is very important for the community Nov 08 16:02:41 I haven't done a whole lot with it lately, been busy on other things. But hopefully we can get some kernel stuff going soon too. Nov 08 16:03:43 I'm deeply disappointed with the lack of progress on the WSoD problem. Either Openmoko is not spending any time on this problem, or the problem is proving to be impossible to fix. Neither choice is good. :( Nov 08 16:04:11 mwester: i have never hit it Nov 08 16:04:25 like, never ever Nov 08 16:04:29 Nor have I. Only some hardware exhibits this problem. Nov 08 16:04:36 mwester: only once Nov 08 16:05:01 any idea why hitting AUX prints ^@ to "cat" running in xterm? Nov 08 16:05:16 mwester: i thought roh is working on that Nov 08 16:05:25 It seems likely that it is dependent upon the actual glamo silicon, and someone reported that it is correlated with termperature. Nov 08 16:05:28 roh? Nov 08 16:05:40 I haven't heard from him in months, I figured he left Om. Nov 08 16:05:54 Andy claims to be working on this. Nov 08 16:06:06 But all I see are an endless stream of GTA03-related commits from Andy. Nov 08 16:06:17 doh... after spending whole day trying to import gmail contacts into FR, now I understand I'm doing it all wrong... :) Nov 08 16:06:32 Which makes me worry about the supposed "commitment" from Om to solve the GTA02 and stability problems. Nov 08 16:08:37 mwester: maybe i am confused concerning roh ... i read that mickey got one neo with the wsod and forwarded it Nov 08 16:09:56 hmm, if om continues to suck i'll just drop out Nov 08 16:10:07 mwester: gta03, thats another story Nov 08 16:10:58 mwester: i hope om doesn not make similar mistakes with gta03 Nov 08 16:13:07 I rather hope one of the distros gets full functionality on the gta02. If I can't get to the point of actually using my gta02 as a phone, my next one will be a Googlephone, even if I do think OM is more open. Nov 08 16:13:52 Looking at FSO on mine does start to make me think the software might have come along far enough that I could learn to write something useful for it. Nov 08 16:23:17 googlephone will probably include all proprietary apps by google? ;) Nov 08 16:23:56 who needs another java phone :) Nov 08 16:25:04 Exactly. That's why we need to get these problems fixed in the GTA02 Nov 08 16:26:39 emilis_info: it uses C to parse AT protocol Nov 08 16:28:08 yes, but if the whole application infrastructure is based on java, then it is not a phone I want :) Nov 08 16:28:10 Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that if you wish to interact with the user, you must write it in Java using the android gui libs. Nov 08 16:28:54 I want to use terminal, python, bash, whatever I'm used to on my linux machine Nov 08 16:29:09 You're rather unlikely to be able to get numpty physics to run on android, for example. Nov 08 16:29:41 just port the android AT parser to debian Nov 08 16:29:51 why? Nov 08 16:30:44 mwester: cause it might receive calls more reliably? Nov 08 16:30:52 really? Nov 08 16:31:20 i thought you said i'd be more reliable Nov 08 16:31:26 are there any tests? Nov 08 16:32:19 lindi-: I don't think I would say that. I've been trying to get people to understand that very few of the major problems with the FR will actually be solved by Android. Nov 08 16:32:44 mwester: yeah wifi issue at least won't Nov 08 16:33:08 mwester: thats clear as they wil use more or less the same kernel Nov 08 16:33:09 WSoD won't, GSM bugs 1024 and 666 won't, Nov 08 16:33:23 charging won't Nov 08 16:33:32 discharge-to-death won't Nov 08 16:33:59 and I could go on about all the other big problems that cannot be fixed by Android. Nov 08 16:34:04 mwester: i thought i had that yesterday testing android, could not load the battery for hours Nov 08 16:34:31 Don't get me wrong, Android is good stuff -- we just need for people to have realistic expectations. The problems are primarily hardware, device-driver, and kernel. Nov 08 16:34:54 which is below the Android layer, essentially. Right? Nov 08 16:35:02 Yes. Nov 08 16:36:08 Some of the issues actually go below the kernel even -- the GSM buzz, for example. Nov 08 16:36:36 and the proprietary software running on the other arm processor Nov 08 16:36:41 It's also, unfortunately, below the level at which I have any skill to donate. I max out my kernel-foo with backporting a driver from one version to another - and I can only pull that one off in the pathetically easy case. Nov 08 16:36:51 But if Openmoko continues to work on these problems, and delivers work-arounds for them, then Android will be a very good option for users to work with. :) Nov 08 16:38:17 I'm mostly not experiencing those problems. I just need userspace-level improvements so I can do things like pair my gta02 with my car and answer the phone from the button on the steering wheel. Nov 08 16:38:26 dingman: testing is good -- for example, the SHR folks are looking for feedback on the latest builds. There is also a shortage of usable bug reports (lots of un-usable ones -- lacking detail or specifics). Nov 08 16:39:15 mwester, do you have a sense of which userspace stack has the most steam? Nov 08 16:39:25 I'm very biased. Nov 08 16:39:42 Your kernels seem to make most of them work better... Nov 08 16:40:59 I generally like the idea of any stack that uses X, but other than that I just wish there were one to focus bug reports and learning the API on. Nov 08 16:41:02 FSO is the best longterm framework, and SHR is the most advanced stack for that. Qt Extended is the best "phone" stack out there at the moment. Android is vaporware, and enjoys lots of publicity -- and might be a winner but there's no real evidence one way or another on that. Nov 08 16:41:39 i'd only need a really simple program that talks to /dev/ttySAC0 and lets me answer and make calls Nov 08 16:41:41 For X, the solution is FSO/SHR. Nov 08 16:41:50 lindi-: FSO Nov 08 16:41:54 Does SHR have testable releases? Right now I'm dual-booting Qt and FSO m3 Nov 08 16:41:55 with mickeyterm Nov 08 16:42:09 mwester: i use debian with fso-frameworkd right now but i have hard time debugging frameworkd Nov 08 16:42:16 mwester: since it has so much going on Nov 08 16:42:17 dingman: testable, yes -- not yet released though. Nov 08 16:42:37 I can handle testable. Especially if I can test from uSD. Nov 08 16:42:54 I asked yesterday; they have the tar file image for SD card install. Nov 08 16:43:22 Check the wiki for info, the download is from bearstech IIRC. Nov 08 16:44:23 Thanks. Nov 08 16:44:26