**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Dec 17 02:59:57 2008
Dec 17 03:01:06 <DocScrutinizer> yup, this is copy from our internal docs-store, so of course there might be references to other internal things. Existence of this internal store isn't a secret, we won't edit out any reference, but we also won't disclose our complete internal NDA'd store ;-)
Dec 17 03:36:54 <rooly> hmm
Dec 17 03:37:20 <rooly> i wonder if the OM could be programmed to work as a bluetooth media remote controller for a windows or linux device
Dec 17 03:37:44 <Sargun> probably
Dec 17 03:38:08 <rooly> that would be neat
Dec 17 03:39:34 <CIA-67> openmoko: 03charlie 07org.openmoko.dev * r92c881f867ea 10/packages/openmoko-projects/tichy_git.bb: tichy_git.bb: fix bug
Dec 17 03:40:01 <LostInSpace> hello people =)
Dec 17 03:40:29 <Digital-Pioneer> rooly: I was just considering that a few seconds ago... :P
Dec 17 03:40:33 <Digital-Pioneer> LostInSpace: Hi
Dec 17 03:40:52 <Digital-Pioneer> rooly just left...
Dec 17 03:40:53 <Digital-Pioneer> :(
Dec 17 03:41:25 <Digital-Pioneer> So does someone know a way to send a keypress event (with a specified key) from console? SSH, specifically.
Dec 17 03:41:34 <Digital-Pioneer> Because then I could use my FR as a remote. :D
Dec 17 03:42:58 <LostInSpace> using send
Dec 17 03:43:21 <LostInSpace> if you make yourself and except script
Dec 17 03:43:26 <LostInSpace> you and use send "thekey"
Dec 17 03:43:28 <LostInSpace> example
Dec 17 03:43:42 <LostInSpace> #!/usr/bin/example
Dec 17 03:43:56 <LostInSpace> err replace example with expect
Dec 17 03:44:03 <LostInSpace> my mind is off tonight hahaha
Dec 17 03:44:19 <LostInSpace> #!/usr/bin/expect
Dec 17 03:44:21 <LostInSpace> send "\033\[23~"
Dec 17 03:44:25 <LostInSpace> this would send the f11 key
Dec 17 03:48:38 <LostInSpace> anybody in here used to using s3c24xx-gpio
Dec 17 03:49:56 <Digital-Pioneer> LostInSpace: Expect... I don't know that interpreter...
Dec 17 03:50:30 <LostInSpace> Digital-Pioneer it's fun for automatic telnet/ssh scripts
Dec 17 03:50:41 <LostInSpace> you can tell it to expect User: then send "theuser"
Dec 17 03:50:50 <LostInSpace> then expect Password: then send "thepassword"
Dec 17 03:51:24 <Digital-Pioneer> Automating SSH... Sounds extremely useful.
Dec 17 03:51:31 <LostInSpace> i have fun using expect to spawn firefox on ppls pc and make them autologin stuff
Dec 17 03:52:00 <Digital-Pioneer> Heheheh
Dec 17 03:52:13 <Digital-Pioneer> My favorite computer prank is modding the hosts file. :)
Dec 17 03:52:24 <LostInSpace> I used iptables on the router
Dec 17 03:52:26 <Digital-Pioneer> Windows even has one... And NOBODY knows about it. xD
Dec 17 03:52:50 <LostInSpace> i reroute using iptables on the gateway
Dec 17 03:52:53 <LostInSpace> way more fun hahaha
Dec 17 03:53:12 <Digital-Pioneer> That assumes your gateway runs Linux and sshd.
Dec 17 03:53:20 <Digital-Pioneer> Mine doesn't. :(
Dec 17 03:53:53 <LostInSpace> no sshd
Dec 17 03:53:56 <LostInSpace> just gateway
Dec 17 03:53:58 <LostInSpace> =P
Dec 17 03:54:28 <Digital-Pioneer> Now, how would I send a spacebar from expect?
Dec 17 03:54:42 <LostInSpace> gotta find the key for that =)
Dec 17 03:55:21 <LostInSpace> http://expect.nist.gov/FAQ.html#q53
Dec 17 03:55:51 <Digital-Pioneer> .gov? Surprising.
Dec 17 03:55:56 <LostInSpace> lol
Dec 17 03:55:58 <LostInSpace> od -c
Dec 17 03:56:00 <LostInSpace> then press your key
Dec 17 03:56:09 <LostInSpace> then remove what u need and make ur send function complete =)
Dec 17 04:06:35 <Digital-Pioneer> LostInSpace: OK, how would I perform an SSH login?
Dec 17 04:09:41 <slaxxin> http://pastebin.com/m1c06b598
Dec 17 04:12:06 <LostInSpace> Digital-Pioneer using expect and send
Dec 17 04:13:26 <Digital-Pioneer> LostInSpace: Yeah... I can make a script to SSH in and send a key, right?
Dec 17 04:29:45 <Digital-Pioneer> LostInSpace: Is there a way to make expect login to a remote system via SSH and send a key so that GUI apps running in X receive it? Hehehe
Dec 17 04:31:33 <LostInSpace> ouff
Dec 17 04:31:44 <LostInSpace> that's touchy
Dec 17 04:32:08 <LostInSpace> I would use and expect script to login to ssh
Dec 17 04:32:29 <LostInSpace> then an expect script on the machine would get executed that would run under the user that is running X and start it there
Dec 17 04:32:53 <Digital-Pioneer> Yeah, well, if I could have my way, I would have it login remotely, find a button on the screen and click it, but that's probably impossible. Hehehehe
Dec 17 04:33:17 <LostInSpace> no it's possible
Dec 17 04:33:26 <LostInSpace> but expect ain't gonna be the thing to find the button on screen
Dec 17 04:33:32 <Digital-Pioneer> Even if the coordinates of the button are variable?
Dec 17 04:33:35 <LostInSpace> expect will be able to auto login and do stuff
Dec 17 04:33:44 <LostInSpace> well you could inject mouse positions
Dec 17 04:34:55 <Digital-Pioneer> Well, I'll tackle that eventually then, but first the simple stuff... Just send a spacebar to whatever in X receives it. As if I hit it on the keyboard. Any idea how I could do that?
Dec 17 04:41:28 <LostInSpace> like i said
Dec 17 04:41:33 <Digital-Pioneer> Anyone else having trouble with the flashlight and laser on their stylus pen? The laser works well for about a tenth of a second, then gets really weak...
Dec 17 04:41:36 <LostInSpace> #!/usr/bin/expect
Dec 17 04:41:41 <Digital-Pioneer> The flashlight, just kinda random.
Dec 17 04:41:41 <LostInSpace> send "thespacekey"
Dec 17 04:41:51 <LostInSpace> use od -c then grab the space key
Dec 17 04:42:13 <Digital-Pioneer> LostInSpace: Yeah, but that doesn't seem to be sending it to X...
Dec 17 04:42:38 <Digital-Pioneer> It appears to be sending it to the SSH session it's logged in at.
Dec 17 04:43:17 <LostInSpace> usualy expect has to laucnh the process entended to send the key to it
Dec 17 04:43:21 <LostInSpace> ie Spawn it
Dec 17 04:43:35 <jbick> does anyone know what to do if you cannot connect to the gsm device using 'cu'?  The program hangs on Connecting and on the wiki it says the gsm device could be faulty but I jsut want to make sure
Dec 17 04:44:19 <LostInSpace> jbick no clue sorry
Dec 17 04:46:24 <LostInSpace> Digital-Pioneer you could always try injecting keypress directly in the device your using
Dec 17 04:47:19 <Digital-Pioneer> LostInSpace: Yes, but that defeats the purpose of the remote control. :P
Dec 17 04:48:08 <mrgarlic> freerunner speaker stopped working today. hmmm?
Dec 17 04:48:52 <Digital-Pioneer> mrgarlic: alsamixer? :)
Dec 17 04:49:16 <mrgarlic> does that mean i should have a drink.
Dec 17 04:49:19 <mrgarlic> ?
Dec 17 04:49:35 <LostInSpace> ?
Dec 17 04:49:53 <mrgarlic> or make a bad joke?
Dec 17 04:50:06 <mrgarlic> i guess i already did that.
Dec 17 04:51:32 <Digital-Pioneer> alsamixer.... It's a mixer... Make sure nothing muted your audio.
Dec 17 04:53:15 <mrgarlic> thanks.
Dec 17 04:53:48 <Digital-Pioneer> Can I easily make my FR route an ad-hoc network that my notebook can connect to and I can SSH between them? For when the cable isn't convenient, you know?
Dec 17 04:54:02 <mrgarlic> excellent.
Dec 17 04:54:29 <mrgarlic> i am just hacking at this for the first time.
Dec 17 04:54:50 <mrgarlic> second week with it.
Dec 17 04:55:48 <Digital-Pioneer> mrgarlic: Ahh, it's my second day. :)
Dec 17 04:55:54 <mrgarlic> thinking i might get GPS antenna, 3rd party battery charger with about half a dozen back up batteries.
Dec 17 04:56:01 <mrgarlic> nice.
Dec 17 04:57:06 <mrgarlic> have you had the battery run down on it?
Dec 17 04:58:33 <Digital-Pioneer> mrgarlic: Only when I first got it. :)
Dec 17 04:59:10 <Digital-Pioneer> How much do backup batts cost? I'm considering getting one myself.
Dec 17 04:59:42 <mrgarlic> well then i am par for the course. 
Dec 17 04:59:52 <mrgarlic> radio shack $11 or so 
Dec 17 05:00:12 <mrgarlic> thinking that a USB battery source might be the trick through.
Dec 17 05:00:25 <mrgarlic> either tin can or store bought.
Dec 17 05:01:02 <mrgarlic> but i already have several devices running on similar battery.  so i am willing to invest in charger.
Dec 17 05:40:19 <KenYoung> It looks to me like the SHR distribution has no keyboard at all.   Does anyone know if that's true, or if I'm just too stupid to figure out how to access the keyboard?
Dec 17 05:41:07 <mwester> Perhaps there's a third option?
Dec 17 05:42:12 <KenYoung> Well, those two options are not mutually exclusive.
Dec 17 05:42:18 <mwester> It's always been in the top bar -- you may have to tap on the bar to get it to drop down, but there should be the text "querty" on there to bring up the keyboard (upper left, if I recall correctly).
Dec 17 05:42:36 <mwester> Perhaps something got broken recently, though.
Dec 17 05:43:09 <KenYoung> mwester, I've tried that, but it isn't there on the rootfs I got from the bearstech site.
Dec 17 05:43:21 <mwester> Ok.  :(
Dec 17 05:45:46 <slaxxin> well pull down the top menu an to the right side there should be a qwerty
Dec 17 05:46:34 <slaxxin> when u get it?
Dec 17 05:46:59 <KenYoung> slaxxer, Oh yes, it is there - I was looking at the wrong side.   Sorry for being such an idiot.
Dec 17 05:47:07 <slaxxin> i have the last 2 days an all is well except gps
Dec 17 05:47:17 <slaxxin> ok
Dec 17 05:47:23 <slaxxin> so many oss
Dec 17 05:48:14 <slaxxin> http://scap.linuxtogo.org/
Dec 17 05:58:50 <slaxxin> id1935
Dec 17 06:14:03 <slaxxin> who has suncom
Dec 17 06:14:16 <slaxxin> whose screenie is that?
Dec 17 06:16:13 <KenYoung> mwester, slaxxer Thanks for your help on my keyboard problem.
Dec 17 06:16:37 <KenYoung> Ooops, slaxxin, not slaxxer 
Dec 17 06:27:34 <slaxxin> both the same?:)
Dec 17 06:29:36 <slaxxin> §:)
Dec 17 06:35:10 <slaxxin> no gps on shr
Dec 17 06:43:07 <slaxxin> http://www.armedslack.org/
Dec 17 06:50:15 <CVirus> slackware sux
Dec 17 06:57:30 <gecco> good morning
Dec 17 06:58:51 <dent> morgen
Dec 17 07:14:30 <orzo> hello
Dec 17 07:14:38 <orzo> i made a 3 way cable
Dec 17 07:15:17 <orzo> one end gives usb power to the other two ends.  Anotehr end is the phone.  Another end is a usb device
Dec 17 07:15:27 <orzo> however
Dec 17 07:15:34 <orzo> it doesnt work
Dec 17 07:15:53 <orzo> why not?
Dec 17 07:15:56 <orzo> i get power
Dec 17 07:16:17 <orzo> but usb devices dont seem to turn on 
Dec 17 07:16:25 <orzo> and the phone doesnt seem to recognize them
Dec 17 07:17:17 <lindi-> orzo: you forgot pullup resistors
Dec 17 07:18:08 <lindi-> no, pulldown
Dec 17 07:18:37 <orzo> hm?
Dec 17 07:20:04 <lindi-> orzo: see USB_Host, line 85
Dec 17 07:20:09 <lindi-> orzo: (in wiki)
Dec 17 07:23:16 <orzo> thanks
Dec 17 07:32:01 <slaxxer> http://pastebin.com/m102917bf
Dec 17 07:32:26 <slaxxer> umount /dev/mmcblk0p2
Dec 17 07:32:46 <slaxxer> umount /dev/mmcblk0p1
Dec 17 07:33:03 <slaxxer> what am i not doing correctly?
Dec 17 07:33:13 <orzo> i put it in host mode
Dec 17 07:33:16 <orzo> still no luck
Dec 17 07:34:05 <orzo> i have it plugged into an optical mouse for testing
Dec 17 07:37:00 <orzo> well the mouse came on
Dec 17 07:37:04 <orzo> so it seemed to work
Dec 17 07:37:23 <orzo> i plugged in a keyboard now
Dec 17 07:37:37 <orzo> the keys dont seem to do anything
Dec 17 07:41:52 <lindi-> orzo: are you trying to charge and operate as usb host?
Dec 17 07:48:13 <orzo> lindi-: no, but that's doable too right?
Dec 17 07:48:23 <orzo> or maybe, i am, but i can turn off the charge
Dec 17 07:49:05 <orzo> i plugged in a cordless keyboard and when i hit keys, a light lights up on the receiver attached to teh neo
Dec 17 07:49:10 <orzo> but the neo doesnt respond
Dec 17 07:52:32 <lindi-> orzo: try to decide :)
Dec 17 07:52:39 <lindi-> orzo: afaik you need the two 15K resistors for that
Dec 17 07:53:11 <lindi-> orzo: since when fr does not provide power to USB bus it will disable its own resistors
Dec 17 07:57:10 <CIA-67> openmoko: 03jeremy 07org.openmoko.dev * r08e8537b8bb3 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: sane-srcrevs.inc: Bump up om-locations to the latest.
Dec 17 08:01:40 <orzo> lindi-: do you need resistors if simply tell the neo to draw full power with software?
Dec 17 08:02:11 <lindi-> orzo: afaik yes
Dec 17 08:02:39 <lindi-> orzo: can't you measure if the pulldown resistors are there in normal case and in your custom setup?
Dec 17 08:02:49 <lindi-> orzo: the mouse expects to see the resistor there always
Dec 17 08:03:53 <orzo> the mouse lit up like it was working
Dec 17 08:04:01 <orzo> and the keyboard seems to be working
Dec 17 08:04:04 <orzo> but the neo doesnt respond
Dec 17 08:04:31 <orzo> i have usbhid loaded
Dec 17 08:11:02 <lindi-> orzo: the light probably lights up when it gets power
Dec 17 08:11:13 <lindi-> orzo: it doe snot tell you anything about the data lines (D+ and D-)
Dec 17 08:14:04 <Hopscotch> good morning
Dec 17 08:17:24 <orzo> no
Dec 17 08:17:39 <orzo> lindi-: its a wireless keyboard and the light on teh receiver lights every time a button is pushed
Dec 17 08:18:28 <orzo> and not when no button is pushed
Dec 17 09:06:17 <radekp> good morning, yesterday i updated android git from koolu, compiled, but the image does not start. It just hangs somewhere in init. The previous revisions were running Ok. Any1 here with the same problem?
Dec 17 09:10:28 <Wonka> i like the "simple lock" action bound to the aux button in current SHR. but: could this fat opaque bar please be altered in a way so that i can still see most of the screen?
Dec 17 09:11:22 <Wonka> makes navit and tangogps easier to use if you don't have to unlock it, and then remember to lock it again before stuffing the FR back into your jacket pocket
Dec 17 09:51:54 <lindi-> is there some way to stop fr from charging from usb while still being able to use usb for networking? i'd like to measure consumption of various parts
Dec 17 10:01:27 <beni> well listening to mp3 works very well
Dec 17 10:01:41 <beni> i had about 9 hours music
Dec 17 10:01:56 <beni> or 8 to 9
Dec 17 10:02:00 <beni> do not know exactly
Dec 17 10:02:11 <lindi-> beni: i'd like to do accurate measurements here :)
Dec 17 10:56:30 <sebbs> btw just to let you guys know my battery was dead this morning and i had no trouble connecting it though the usb getting it charaged enough to boot
Dec 17 11:18:21 <ieatlint> heh, yay... att has broken routes
Dec 17 12:16:27 <Wonka> jay!
Dec 17 12:16:29 <Wonka> error loading /usr/share/zhone/zhone.edj: No error (file='/usr/share/zhone/zhone.edj', group='swallow')
Dec 17 12:19:06 <CIA-67> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * r1b616cefa90a 10/ (ChangeLog framework/subsystems/otimed/otimed.py): otimed: add simple timesync to NTP and GPS
Dec 17 12:30:14 <gecco> i have release openvibe with some bugfix
Dec 17 12:31:08 <Wonka> not that openvibe, nor? http://www.irisa.fr/bunraku/OpenViBE/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
Dec 17 13:08:57 <CIA-67> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * rc8057d6f2151 10/src/zhone: display current timezone
Dec 17 13:34:41 <ragulp_> is ther a openmoko developer corner
Dec 17 13:34:43 <ragulp_> on the web?
Dec 17 13:35:04 <mirko-paroli> try #openmoko-cdevel
Dec 17 13:41:56 <ragulp_> are there any compiler issues
Dec 17 13:42:02 <ragulp_> for openmoko qemu for ubuntu
Dec 17 13:42:11 <ragulp_> i am having a bit hard time gettin it to work
Dec 17 15:30:37 <Alinermedia> Graeme (XorA): Thank you very much for the e-mail.
Dec 17 16:47:33 <slaxxin> now all we need is an open free cell network:)
Dec 17 16:48:28 <cb22> openbts perhaps?
Dec 17 16:50:33 <qknight> huhu
Dec 17 16:50:40 <qknight> can i use kmobiletools or any other application of that kind?
Dec 17 16:50:51 <qknight> i would like to send mails via my openmoko neo using a command line or a gui
Dec 17 16:50:57 <qknight> didn't find much in the wiki
Dec 17 16:51:07 <cb22> qknight: smseS?
Dec 17 16:51:14 <qknight> short message 
Dec 17 16:51:17 <qknight> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SMS#Text_Mode
Dec 17 16:51:19 <qknight> something like that
Dec 17 16:51:43 <qknight> sorry not mails as in emails of course
Dec 17 16:52:11 <cb22> qknight: well, if you can send them from the command line on the phone, you can always use ssh to do it remotely
Dec 17 16:52:36 <qknight> i know. i don't use the command line for that yet
Dec 17 16:52:44 <qknight> and i would prefere a bluetooth soluiton
Dec 17 16:53:15 <max_posedon> You can setup bluetooth network, and ssh anyway)
Dec 17 16:53:20 <CIA-67> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r75b2a9f37610 10/framework/subsystems/odeviced/powercontrol_neo.py: 
Dec 17 16:53:20 <CIA-67> freesmartphone.org: odeviced: powercontrol_neo: use kernel-agnostic sysfs path
Dec 17 16:53:20 <CIA-67> freesmartphone.org: remove super() calls and limit scanning to the one directory where we expect the device nodes
Dec 17 16:53:37 <simoo> Hi I have just been given a freerunner for christmas (early I know!) could someone explain to me what a 'git' is? I would like to try android
Dec 17 16:53:45 <cb22> qknight: iirc its pretty easy to get the device to expose the gsm modem as a bluetooth rfcomm channel
Dec 17 16:54:33 <qknight> oh is it?
Dec 17 16:54:34 <qknight> how?
Dec 17 16:54:36 <cb22> then you could use tools that work with normal AT commands
Dec 17 16:54:41 <qknight> ah nice!
Dec 17 16:57:29 <cb22> qknight: see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_GPS#Bluetooth_GPS_relay
Dec 17 16:57:34 <qknight> thanks!
Dec 17 16:57:47 <cb22> you'd need to modify accordingly for the gsm modem
Dec 17 16:58:00 <cb22> and you'd want to kill anything else that might access it 
Dec 17 16:58:01 <CIA-67> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r79984a6f78dd 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/om.py: ogpsd: om: use kernel-agnostic sysfs node path
Dec 17 17:03:54 <CIA-67> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rd22d3d504965 10/framework/subsystems/odeviced/accelerometer.py: odeviced: accelerometer: use sysfs path agnostic to kernel version
Dec 17 17:07:37 <CIA-67> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rbf16e8d6f660 10/framework/subsystems/odeviced/kernel26.py: 
Dec 17 17:07:37 <CIA-67> freesmartphone.org: odeviced: kernel26: Don't dump exception if we can't register to the netlink object (multiple times)
Dec 17 17:07:37 <CIA-67> freesmartphone.org: It might have been successful the first time. This code will be changed soon anyways, we're going
Dec 17 17:07:39 <CIA-67> freesmartphone.org: to introduce a kobject multiplexer in the framework services.
Dec 17 17:27:40 <CIA-67> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r5fbb82b69949 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/ti_calypso/modem.py: ogsmd: [TI CALYPSO] use kernel-version agnostic sysfs path
Dec 17 17:40:36 <markj3450> Hi, re-flashed my Freerunner to Om 2008 yesterday, but I can find no terminal on it, can anyone tell me how to enable / install this?
Dec 17 17:41:44 <white_gecko> login via ssh
Dec 17 17:42:09 <white_gecko> and "opkg install openmoko-terminal"
Dec 17 17:42:12 <white_gecko> i think
Dec 17 17:42:21 <markj3450> ah, great
Dec 17 17:42:47 <markj3450> do you know how to install it without internet access? still trying to get that up as well
Dec 17 17:43:09 <white_gecko> ok so first lets configure the internet access
Dec 17 17:43:18 <white_gecko> do you have the usb-bridge running?
Dec 17 17:43:18 <markj3450> ok
Dec 17 17:43:39 <markj3450> mmmm, not sure, using XP to work with it unfortunately
Dec 17 17:43:47 <white_gecko> oh
Dec 17 17:43:59 <Zorkman> markj3450: when you are using xp
Dec 17 17:44:08 <Zorkman> set your "real" internet connection as shared
Dec 17 17:44:10 <white_gecko> thanks Zorkman
Dec 17 17:44:22 <white_gecko> i don't know win XP
Dec 17 17:44:24 <markj3450> but I am probably going to burn a live cd to avoid the XP complications
Dec 17 17:44:39 <markj3450> yeah, tried the sharing business
Dec 17 17:44:50 <Zorkman> markj3450: and have you editted the resolv.conf? or isn't that nescessary in 2008.x anymore? (it isn't in SHR)
Dec 17 17:45:27 <markj3450> hmmm, I am not sure, what would need to be edited in resolv.conf?
Dec 17 17:46:38 <white_gecko> you have to insert your dns
Dec 17 17:46:44 <markj3450> ok
Dec 17 17:46:55 <markj3450> I will look into that
Dec 17 17:46:57 <white_gecko> in shr it is
Dec 17 17:47:06 <white_gecko> sorry for pasting in irc.
Dec 17 17:47:08 <white_gecko> $ cat /etc/resolv.conf
Dec 17 17:47:09 <white_gecko> nameserver 208.67.222.222
Dec 17 17:47:11 <white_gecko> nameserver 208.67.220.220
Dec 17 17:47:35 <markj3450> thanks, I will try that
Dec 17 17:47:53 <white_gecko> ok so have fun
Dec 17 17:47:57 <white_gecko> i have to leave now
Dec 17 17:48:09 <markj3450> thank you very much!
Dec 17 18:13:11 <sleipnir> can someone plz tell me how to migrate my openmoko project if I can't dump the svn repos?
Dec 17 18:19:59 <Dave> sleipnir, what?
Dec 17 18:20:46 <sleipnir> i want to migrate my project from projects.openmoko.org to another server,  but the admins already deny a ssh login
Dec 17 18:21:20 <sleipnir> I want to keep my log so svnadmin dump/load would do that, but this requires a shell :-(
Dec 17 18:21:59 <sleipnir> dave: any ideas?
Dec 17 18:23:21 <Weiss> sleipnir: reading the lists, it sounds like projects.openmoko.org might not be going away after all
Dec 17 18:23:45 <sleipnir> weiss: do you really trust that stuff?
Dec 17 18:24:46 <Dave> Oh!
Dec 17 18:24:53 <Weiss> why not?
Dec 17 18:25:14 <Dave> Politely ask the assistance of an OM admin? :)
Dec 17 18:25:19 <Weiss> you could use git-svn to retrieve the entire history into a Git repo (then optionally put it back into a different one with dcommit)
Dec 17 18:25:28 <Dave> yeah
Dec 17 18:25:42 <Dave> or git->svn if that's your personal preference (as it is mine)
Dec 17 18:26:05 <sleipnir> dunno, maybe because it's very vague and we don't have write access to the repositoy until the issue is resolved
Dec 17 18:26:41 <Weiss> i agree, plus having a backup of your history is necessary anyway...
Dec 17 18:26:56 <sleipnir> weiss, dave: I would like to keep svn... it's really not a problem if I only would have the dump...
Dec 17 18:27:52 <Toaster`> I'm testing out SHR and for the life of me I can't find the keyboard.  And illume seems to be instlled.  Any tips?
Dec 17 18:28:16 <sleipnir> i think i will ask openmoko admins to simply create the dumps for all projects and put them to the files section of the corresponding project
Dec 17 18:29:16 <jbick> does anyone know what it means if the 'cu' command hangs on Connecting?  The wiki says that it could be a faulty gsm device but I also do not have a sim card and am wondering if that could be the problem
Dec 17 18:31:58 <sicu> Toaster`: touch the illume top-shelf so it drops down, and qwerty will be in top right corner
Dec 17 18:33:58 <Toaster`> sicu: Hiding in plain sight.  Mani thanks
Dec 17 18:34:04 <Toaster`> *Many thanks
Dec 17 18:37:44 <Toaster`> And another quick question, is it common for SHR to not have GSM connectivity?
Dec 17 18:38:16 <Dave> sleipnir: that sounds like a good idea :)
Dec 17 18:38:46 <sleipnir> dave: I posted it to the mailinglist, let's wait for the response ;-)
Dec 17 18:40:35 <sicu> Toaster`: if it's your first boot after flash, then reboot and try again
Dec 17 18:40:53 <Toaster`> sicu: first thing I tried.  
Dec 17 18:41:04 <sicu> Toaster`: some ppl are having issues with ophonekitd after first boot
Dec 17 18:41:10 <sicu> hmm .. ok, 2 secs
Dec 17 18:41:27 <sicu> have you checked to see if ophonekitd is running?
Dec 17 18:42:06 <Toaster`> sicu: I will do in 2 sec
Dec 17 18:45:44 <Toaster`> sicu: it seems not
Dec 17 18:54:53 <sicu> Toaster`: then start it up, and see how it goes =] --> DISPLAY=":0" ophonekitd&
Dec 17 18:55:10 <Toaster`> sicu: after 3 reboots it seems to be up now
Dec 17 18:55:52 <sicu> Toaster`: good good ... seems there's a racecondition, but they're working on it upstream
Dec 17 18:56:07 <Toaster`> sicu: good enough for me.
Dec 17 18:56:14 <Toaster`> now to get teh wifi working
Dec 17 18:56:18 <sicu> Toaster`: just start it manually if it happens again ;] until they get it fixed
Dec 17 18:56:33 <sicu> hehe ... always something =p
Dec 17 18:56:35 <Toaster`> sicu: will do
Dec 17 18:56:57 <Toaster`> I'm a tinkerer, if it's fixed, I break it again, then get out the soldering iron :)
Dec 17 18:58:39 <sicu> no need here ... it's already broken ;p
Dec 17 18:58:46 <Toaster`> heh
Dec 17 19:12:23 <mick_laptop> anyone recommend any accessories for the neo freerunner?
Dec 17 19:12:38 <mick_laptop> is there a place in the wiki for people selling accessories?
Dec 17 19:12:47 <AntonTakk> a working cell phone?  ;)  jk
Dec 17 19:13:09 <mick_laptop> mine works great
Dec 17 19:13:15 <mick_laptop> i haven't had any problems
Dec 17 19:13:22 <AntonTakk> what image you using?
Dec 17 19:13:26 <mick_laptop> which is odd, since everyone else has issues
Dec 17 19:13:36 <mick_laptop> stock - i haven't upgraded yet
Dec 17 19:13:42 <mwester> heh! 
Dec 17 19:13:47 <AntonTakk> ah, old 2007.2
Dec 17 19:13:49 <mwester> That's the distro Om killed.
Dec 17 19:13:52 <mick_laptop> right
Dec 17 19:14:04 <mwester> obsolete - yet it worked better than most everything else.
Dec 17 19:14:05 <SpeedEvil> 2007.2 was almost working when it was killed.
Dec 17 19:14:09 <AntonTakk> yeah, i really wish they wouldn't have killed it
Dec 17 19:14:27 <mick_laptop> i put in my friend's sim card - then everything worked (bare functionality) but it worked
Dec 17 19:14:32 <AntonTakk> otoh, 2007.2 ui/apps on fso back end would be very nice
Dec 17 19:14:46 <mick_laptop> just when i put in another sim - then it couldn't read messages (known bug in 2007.2)
Dec 17 19:14:52 <SpeedEvil> 2007.2 + working suspend/... and it'd pretty much be a barely usable phone.
Dec 17 19:15:32 <mick_laptop> i probably haven't used it enough to run into too many problems
Dec 17 19:15:57 <mick_laptop> can i connect to my asterisk pbx at home w/ it? 
Dec 17 19:16:25 <AntonTakk> i think there is an app for that, if it will run on 2007.2
Dec 17 19:16:28 <mick_laptop> i'd like to either find a voip project or build a basic client
Dec 17 19:16:44 <mick_laptop> oh i'll upgrade for sure
Dec 17 19:17:10 <SpeedEvil> you know uyou can only do VOIP over wifi?
Dec 17 19:17:11 <mick_laptop> i'll just keep a backup on a microsd card though
Dec 17 19:17:19 <mick_laptop> yes i know that
Dec 17 19:17:30 <mick_laptop> if i call home then i'll be at work (we have wifi here)
Dec 17 19:17:58 <mick_laptop> and i have wifi at home
Dec 17 19:18:07 <mick_laptop> not that that even matters :)
Dec 17 19:18:46 <mick_laptop> is there a prefered dev environment for openmoko apps?
Dec 17 19:19:01 <mick_laptop> c, c++, python, java etc.
Dec 17 19:19:36 <mick_laptop> i'm prepared for an "alpha" phone btw -- and i'm a developer
Dec 17 19:19:50 <mick_laptop> so whatever doesn't exist, i'm cool with writing
Dec 17 19:20:56 <mwester> famous last words...
Dec 17 19:21:39 <mwester> many others have set foot upon that path, and those that remain on that path are as cynical as I.
Dec 17 19:21:42 <mick_laptop> are the apis at least stable?
Dec 17 19:21:45 <mwester> No
Dec 17 19:21:51 <mwester> Not event the kernel is stable.
Dec 17 19:21:52 <mick_laptop> fuck
Dec 17 19:22:18 <mick_laptop> ok, what has yet to be done?
Dec 17 19:22:42 <mick_laptop> has anyone started writing a voip app?
Dec 17 19:23:04 <mick_laptop> mwester: what are the big hurdles
Dec 17 19:23:09 <mwester> The long-term direction is FSO (dbus-oriented framework), and currently the most promising user-space is SHR.
Dec 17 19:23:17 <mick_laptop> mwester: i've done embedded development in the past
Dec 17 19:23:46 <mick_laptop> so who knows - i might be useful :)
Dec 17 19:24:18 <mwester> hurdles begin down at the deep kernel level with suspend/resume problems with the hardware.  A workaround that seems to dodge the biggest one (by preventing deep sleep mode on a bit of the display hardware) came about recently, but is only available on the truely experimental (mostly broken) kernels.
Dec 17 19:24:39 <mwester> Open issues with the GSM modem itelsf include bug 1024 -- read that one for yourself, it's a real joy.
Dec 17 19:25:04 <mwester> There is only the beginnings of power management (suspend/resume, no freq. changing).
Dec 17 19:25:47 <mwester> Moving up in the levels, there's no real problem with the lack of power management since there's no agreement on how it should be handled by userspace.
Dec 17 19:27:58 <mwester> Just scan some of the mailing lists, and hang about here, you'll pick up a good sense of some of the major issues with the hardware, and you'll probably also pick up that there's a huge discconnect between the few remaining Om developers and the community, the best way of descrbing it being to note that the Om kernel developers not only don't use OM devices at all, they don't even use a standard rootfs.
Dec 17 19:28:34 <mick_laptop> :(
Dec 17 19:28:56 <mick_laptop> that why harold stopped working on it?
Dec 17 19:29:14 <mick_laptop> i was going to ask him at ccc - but i now can't go :(
Dec 17 19:29:34 <mwester> Nevertheless, the community has really rallied together around FSO and SHR, and is making great progress with both the GTA01 (abandoned by OM) and the GTA02 -- the major milestone IMO happened when people realized that waiting for Om to fix anything was a mistake.  Even the major breaktrhoughs on the proprieatry hardware have been from the community (with the exception of the wifo...
Dec 17 19:29:45 <mwester> er wifi -- the Om developer ont eh wifi did a great job.
Dec 17 19:30:16 <mwester> mick_laptop:  you'll have to ask harald himself, or just read his blog.  He's pretty open about it.
Dec 17 19:30:53 <mick_laptop> ya, sorry for the typo
Dec 17 19:31:33 <mwester> It's a fun project -- just get your expectations set correctly is all. :)
Dec 17 19:33:04 <mick_laptop> heh
Dec 17 19:33:39 <mick_laptop> who is leading the team now?
Dec 17 19:36:44 <mick_laptop> i take it that Om developers hang out in here?
Dec 17 19:37:28 <mick_laptop> or is ther that much of a disconnect between the devs and the community?
Dec 17 19:38:10 <sicu> mick_laptop: most devs hang out in #openmoko-cdevel
Dec 17 19:38:46 <mwester> mick_laptop:  That's a good question...  Mickey hangs about here and in #openmoko-cdevel, is the visionary and lead for the FSO framework, and has the respect of everyone in the community -- and I expect that is true inside Openmoko as well.
Dec 17 19:40:08 <mwester> mick_laptop:  some of the ex-openmoko developer hang about here as well.  But the kernel developers live in their own little world at Openmoko; reachable only by mailing list.
Dec 17 19:41:43 <mick_laptop> anyone know if they are hiring?
Dec 17 19:41:56 <mwester> Check the announcements; they are looking for someone.
Dec 17 19:42:20 <mick_laptop> :D
Dec 17 19:42:33 <mick_laptop> that would be my dream job for sure
Dec 17 19:42:47 <mwester> ;) more famous last words.
Dec 17 19:43:07 <mick_laptop> oh man stop scaring me :)
Dec 17 19:43:18 <mick_laptop> don't burst my bubble :(
Dec 17 19:43:20 <sicu> hehe
Dec 17 19:43:46 <mwester> :P  you're right; the freerunner will do that on its own eventually... :D
Dec 17 19:43:52 <sicu> hand the poor man some soap for his bubbles
Dec 17 19:45:22 <mwester> hehe! it can be fun -- I think it's just important not to count on Om for very much, instead focus on the community.  Speaking for myself, life became much happier when I stopped expecting anything from Om, and started working with FSO, SHR, and with Qtopia.  :)
Dec 17 19:50:18 <ceupers> omg, interesting words!
Dec 17 19:50:19 <mick_laptop> :)
Dec 17 20:15:59 <snake> hi
Dec 17 20:27:07 <CIA-67> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * r7a56ea1bfc59 10/framework/subsystems/otimed/otimed.py: otimed: fix blocking otimed without connectivity
Dec 17 20:34:32 <mick_laptop> ok, i'm having that problem again where i can't get the phone to wake up
Dec 17 20:35:07 <mick_laptop> i just hold down the power and it does nothing
Dec 17 20:38:35 <simoo> Hi, I'm using qtopia with my freerunner, how do I copy files to the memory card, it doesn't appear as a removable device when I plug it in
Dec 17 20:38:38 <elserpiente> try push power butten and then click on screen
Dec 17 20:40:09 <mick_laptop> nope :-/
Dec 17 20:40:37 <elserpiente> dunno
Dec 17 21:00:39 <bernt> Hello, Can someone explain me how to set up the usb network connection to automatic mode? I had it running some months ago, but now I always have to use ifdown usb0; ifup usb0 when I reconnect the freerunner.
Dec 17 21:01:33 <bernt> (I'm using ubuntu intrepid as host system)
Dec 17 21:26:55 <raspoutine> is it possible to import contacts into shr's openmoko-contacts? like in vcard format for instance.
Dec 17 21:27:42 <viq> IIRC I saw something about this on the wiki
Dec 17 21:31:58 <sleipnir> ummm after compiling u-boot and trying to get it up with dfu-utils I get:
Dec 17 21:32:00 <sleipnir> state(10) = dfuERROR, status(1) = File is not targeted for use by this device
Dec 17 21:32:25 <sleipnir> is it possible that my device is gta02v5 not gta02v6?
Dec 17 21:32:53 <ColdFyre> what?
Dec 17 21:33:05 <ColdFyre> there is only gta01 and gta02
Dec 17 21:33:08 <simoo> Hi, using OM 2008.9 is it possible to import contacts eg. vcards?
Dec 17 21:33:12 <elserpiente> check it on your FR: cat /proc/cpuinfo
Dec 17 21:33:52 <viq> simoo: check wiki, I saw something about that
Dec 17 21:33:55 <elserpiente> ColdFyre : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_revisions
Dec 17 21:34:14 <sleipnir> coldfyre: for building uboot there is a target gta02v5_config and gat02v6_config
Dec 17 21:34:22 <sleipnir> s/gat/gta
Dec 17 21:34:22 <simoo> viq: thanks ill have a search
Dec 17 21:35:11 <sleipnir> coldfyre: and because i _have_ the gps fix i thought it would be v6
Dec 17 21:47:36 <simoo> does anyone know how to share my mac's internet connection with om2008.9?
Dec 17 21:49:11 <raspoutine> simoo, for the contacts import it's easy with om
Dec 17 21:49:27 <raspoutine> just use the command line and pass a vcard file to the qtopia program
Dec 17 21:49:38 <simoo> raspoutine: great thanks, how
Dec 17 21:49:57 <raspoutine> if someone found the technique for shr it would be usefull for me :)
Dec 17 21:50:16 <simoo> how do I get the vcard file onto the freerunner?
Dec 17 21:50:35 <raspoutine> simoo, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MacOS_X#Enabling_the_Mac_as_an_Internet_Router
Dec 17 21:50:40 <sicu> SHR only stores contacts on SIM for for now
Dec 17 21:50:41 <raspoutine> for the connection sharing
Dec 17 21:50:45 <simoo> thank you
Dec 17 21:51:16 <raspoutine> simoo, the same page contains information on sending files to your phone
Dec 17 21:51:31 <simoo> right, thanks :0
Dec 17 21:51:34 <simoo> :)
Dec 17 21:52:28 <raspoutine> sicu, you mean no software to import data to sim exists yet?
Dec 17 21:54:04 <raspoutine> i mean, is there eg a dbus interface to the sim adressbook?
Dec 17 21:57:41 <simoo> does the standard 2008.9 image have a terminal?
Dec 17 21:58:37 <sicu> not that i'm aware of, no
Dec 17 21:58:40 <viq> no, you need to install xterm
Dec 17 21:59:17 <simoo> but I can't install xterm without internet connection and I can't get an internel connection without a terminal
Dec 17 21:59:30 <viq> usb networking?
Dec 17 21:59:48 <simoo> ssh?
Dec 17 21:59:54 <viq> Also, in settings you have a way to configure wireless
Dec 17 22:00:25 <simoo> I can't get wireless to connect
Dec 17 22:00:30 <simoo> I tried that first
Dec 17 22:00:59 <sicu> raspoutine: http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=specs.git;a=blob_plain;f=html/org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.html;hb=HEAD
Dec 17 22:01:30 <viq> simoo: did you try getting usb networking to work?
Dec 17 22:02:40 <simoo> I have just told my mac to share the connection but I need to edit resolve.conf on the freerunner next I think
Dec 17 22:03:13 <viq> if they are connected you can just ssh into it.
Dec 17 22:03:45 <viq> And then you have a large nice terminal with a full sized keyboard, apparently of the brand name apple ;)
Dec 17 22:04:35 <simoo> hmmm... I don't seem to be able to ssh to the phone
Dec 17 22:05:05 <viq> simoo: wiki has some information about doing usb networking on a mac
Dec 17 22:05:10 <raspoutine> simoo, use fdom
Dec 17 22:05:24 <raspoutine> which contains many applications standard
Dec 17 22:05:25 <raspoutine> or shr
Dec 17 22:05:49 <simoo> ok
Dec 17 22:06:09 <simoo> I have fedora on this laptop too maybe it will be easier with that
Dec 17 22:06:20 <viq> should be, yes
Dec 17 22:06:43 <viq> Though, I don't remember how hard it is on mac, didn't really read that page but I seem to remember you had to install something
Dec 17 22:07:20 <ledzgio> hi to all
Dec 17 22:07:22 <simoo> s'ok it makes a nice change when something is easier to do in Linux
Dec 17 22:07:51 <viq> heh
Dec 17 22:08:34 <simoo> I had intended to use qtopia on my freerunner but OM is really impressive
Dec 17 22:08:46 <mwester> simoo speaks heresy
Dec 17 22:09:04 <mwester> All things are easier in Linux! ;)
Dec 17 22:09:04 <simoo> should I use qtopia?
Dec 17 22:09:10 <viq> I am playing with SHR recently and like it a lot. Though I didn't touch qtopia yet.
Dec 17 22:09:12 <simoo> oh haha
Dec 17 22:09:12 <mwester> No, you should use Linux!
Dec 17 22:09:13 <mwester> :P
Dec 17 22:09:31 <simoo> well I use it on my phone now!
Dec 17 22:09:40 <mwester> That's a good start.
Dec 17 22:10:20 <jc_> hello, any tips on a good lightweight ORM in python for sqlite that would not be feature creeped and run ok on freerunner ?
Dec 17 22:10:36 <mwester> Qtopia  or Qt Extended is an excellent "phone software stack".   SHR/FSO is a not-quite-ready-for-release mobile computing platform that has phone functionality.  The difference is the significant thing.
Dec 17 22:10:43 <viq> ORM?
Dec 17 22:10:49 <jc_> object-relational mapping
Dec 17 22:11:09 <raspoutine> simoo, and shr is even more impressive :)
Dec 17 22:11:12 <jc_> its a thing that lets you work with data in sqlite tables as if it were objects
Dec 17 22:11:25 * mwester ponts jc_ to a quad Xenon rack-mounted server with 4GBytes RAM
Dec 17 22:11:37 <jc_> so instead of insert you use new something(); and stuff
Dec 17 22:11:40 <mwester> with Java too.
Dec 17 22:11:40 <simoo> mwester: I couldn't work out how to copy files or import contacts to qt extended
Dec 17 22:11:47 <jc_> mwester why that? 
Dec 17 22:11:58 <mwester> simoo:  yeah, many folks have noted that as a limitation.
Dec 17 22:11:59 <raspoutine> jc_, sqlobject?
Dec 17 22:12:00 <jc_> you don't think fr has the firepower ?
Dec 17 22:12:04 <Dave> :|
Dec 17 22:12:05 <zash__> activerecord is awesome
Dec 17 22:12:14 <jc_> raspoutine: thanks, I'll have a look
Dec 17 22:12:32 <jc_> ar ? its in python too ?
Dec 17 22:12:50 <zash__> jc_: ar is in ruby
Dec 17 22:12:57 <zash__> but realy nice
Dec 17 22:12:57 <mwester> jc_:  I suspect the freerunner could do the db stuff, it's more a comment on the type of applications I've seen written using that sort of thing.  They tend to be data-center class apps, in my limited experience with them.
Dec 17 22:13:21 <jc_> mwester or simple web apps, thats RAD for you ;)
Dec 17 22:13:27 <jc_> I'm used to them in symfony
Dec 17 22:13:39 <mwester> :D  I've just not seen anyone use the FR as a web server -- yet.
Dec 17 22:13:47 <jc_> I'm not trying to
Dec 17 22:13:52 <jc_> I'll use it with pygtk
Dec 17 22:14:18 <jc_> at first I want to do a simple application that would allow me to organize schoolwork easily
Dec 17 22:14:29 <jc_> unleashing power of open source and making freerunner useful :)
Dec 17 22:14:30 <mwester> Cool. Have you set up a build env. for FSO or SHR?
Dec 17 22:14:49 <jc_> nah, It'll be pure python for now :)
Dec 17 22:15:13 <mwester> I think you might be on the edges of what software is in the standard repos, so you might find that you'll have to build your own stuff from the OE bb files.
Dec 17 22:15:19 <jc_> I'd like to keep it simple
Dec 17 22:15:33 <jc_> I thought pygtk ran ok? :)
Dec 17 22:15:42 <mwester> ORM is simple?
Dec 17 22:15:49 <mwester> pygtk runs fine.
Dec 17 22:15:50 <jc_> yes, it can be very simple
Dec 17 22:15:54 <jc_> even written in pure python
Dec 17 22:16:03 <jc_> just look at propel for example
Dec 17 22:16:10 <jc_> ORM written in pure php
Dec 17 22:16:15 <jc_> simple yet useful :)
Dec 17 22:16:56 <ledzgio> hi
Dec 17 22:17:04 <jc_> yey
Dec 17 22:17:07 <ledzgio> i have to upgrade uboot
Dec 17 22:17:10 <jc_> SQLObject is pure python
Dec 17 22:17:28 <ledzgio> if i upgrade uboot, there will be problem with the installed distributions?
Dec 17 22:17:29 <jc_> great suggestion, just what I wanted, easy distribution and no dependency hell :)
Dec 17 22:18:15 <mwester> ledzgio:  there should not be any such troubles.
Dec 17 22:33:05 <jc_> oh btw I think qtopia uses a simple sqlite database
Dec 17 22:33:17 <jc_> just a matter of using the sqlite utility to manipulate it
Dec 17 22:34:12 <jc_> yup http://doc.trolltech.com/qtextended4.4/database-specification.html
Dec 17 22:34:18 <jc_> the database schema is of interest to you ;)
Dec 17 22:34:23 <jc_> interoperability made easy
Dec 17 22:38:23 <CIA-67> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rdb8c955b8eb5 10/framework/subsystems/ousaged/ (helpers.py lowlevel.py): ousaged: add lowlevel resume reason helpers
Dec 18 00:17:43 <jc_> how would you call a schoolwork organizing application? :)
Dec 18 00:18:05 <igor321> SchoolBuddy3000
Dec 18 00:18:12 <jc_> igor321 lol :)
Dec 18 00:18:33 <igor321> maybe add an "open" ;)
Dec 18 00:18:37 <jc_> I was thinking something more on the terms of 'tormentorg'
Dec 18 00:18:47 <jc_> but thats not good
Dec 18 00:20:31 <jc_> maybe something more suitable because of the suffering? :)
Dec 18 00:22:51 <jc_> painkeeper !
Dec 18 00:23:00 <jc_> stupid and simple enough :D
Dec 18 00:23:38 <jc_> openpainkeeper...
Dec 18 00:25:04 <Wonka> Dec 18 01:24:03 om-gta02 daemon.err pppd[1901]: Connect script failed
Dec 18 00:25:07 <Wonka> *grrrr*
Dec 18 00:25:08 <jc_> igor321: but I'm starting to like your idea, its kinda like martianbuddy in doom 3, that was funny :)
Dec 18 00:25:26 <Wonka> damn calypso seems not to answer anything at all, atm
Dec 18 00:25:40 <jc_> Wonka: you trying to dial up ?
Dec 18 00:26:07 <igor321> jc_: mix it up and call it SufferBuddy
Dec 18 00:26:12 <Wonka> jc_: yes
Dec 18 00:26:24 <Wonka> jc_: gprs-on.sh from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPRS_FSO
Dec 18 00:26:28 <jc_> igor321 heeey SufferBuddy3000 thats a nice one
Dec 18 00:26:44 <jc_> and a short sb3 is good too, afaik it only stands for sound blaster and there was no 3 :D
Dec 18 00:26:57 <igor321> yupp ;)
Dec 18 00:27:24 <jc_> igor321: ok thats the one, thanks for help :)
Dec 18 00:27:35 <igor321> np :)
Dec 18 00:27:44 <jc_> Wonka: gprs is working? I mean at least in a hack way
Dec 18 00:27:45 <Wonka> anyway. 0128 here, and alarm clock ringing at 0620
Dec 18 00:27:59 <jc_> hey here too
Dec 18 00:28:02 <jc_> where are you from ?
Dec 18 00:28:04 <Wonka> jc_: with debian, i get ppp frames
Dec 18 00:28:16 <Wonka> near Kiel, northern germany
Dec 18 00:28:28 <jc_> then were not that far, I'm from czech republic :P
Dec 18 00:28:34 <Wonka> O.o
Dec 18 00:28:45 <jc_> and I was in germany at least 2 times
Dec 18 00:29:15 <Wonka> have been to poland, austria, hungary... but not czech rep yet
Dec 18 00:29:30 <jc_> lol I've been to poland too and a funny one it is
Dec 18 00:29:52 <Wonka> my visits to poland have been about hours.
Dec 18 00:30:06 <jc_> meat was kinda cheap there at the time so we went to get some sausages and stuff just behind the borders :D
Dec 18 00:30:11 <Wonka> enter, eat with family at a restaurant, leave
Dec 18 00:30:16 <jc_> just for fun
Dec 18 00:30:27 <Wonka> sorry. gotta go and sleep.
Dec 18 00:30:35 <jc_> yeah bye and good luck with gprs
Dec 18 00:31:12 <Wonka> gprs sucks. they're doing it the wrong way round, i think
Dec 18 00:31:18 <jc_> damn with that cool name I'll just have to give it a spoof icon of martianbuddy :D
Dec 18 00:31:55 <Wonka> first get the 07.10 channel. then open the connection by sending AT commands... and only in the end start ppp
Dec 18 00:32:25 <jc_> Wonka: I'd like to get it working too sometime since we get some free information through gprs here
Dec 18 00:32:43 <jc_> but I've got other priorities atm
Dec 18 00:43:22 <jc_> damn the gprs classes are so overcomplicated and overexposed
Dec 18 00:44:03 * raster overexposes himself
Dec 18 00:44:55 <jc_> are there really so many things to set ?
Dec 18 00:45:04 <Sargun> heh
Dec 18 00:45:14 <jc_> for example with wifi interface you'd have just essid I guess
Dec 18 00:45:23 <jc_> everything else could  be handled transparetly
Dec 18 00:45:50 <jc_> maybe also a prompt for password callback (wep/wpa)
Dec 18 00:47:06 <jc_> GPRS Class ?
Dec 18 00:48:06 <SpeedEvil> jc_: It's like Band Camp.
Dec 18 00:48:09 <SpeedEvil> jc_: but more boring.
Dec 18 00:48:46 <jc_> SpeedEvil: huh? :D
Dec 18 00:49:02 <SpeedEvil> nvm
Dec 18 00:49:30 <jc_> like this ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Band_camp
Dec 18 00:50:42 <jc_> anyway, afaik DBUS shouldn't be used as a complete interface, you'd make a hell out of it
Dec 18 00:51:12 <jc_> just basic infos that widgets that actually don't care too much about the subsystem and just show its status and stuff use
Dec 18 00:51:39 <jc_> s/and//
Dec 18 00:51:39 <apt> jc_ meant: just basic infos that widgets that actually don't care too much about the subsystem  just show its status and stuff use
Dec 18 00:51:57 <jc_> damn
Dec 18 00:52:05 <jc_> I'm too drunk already
Dec 18 00:53:06 <jc_> ok not the first and, apt :P
Dec 18 00:53:26 <jc_> apt: hello
Dec 18 00:53:27 <apt> Howdy Bub
Dec 18 00:53:33 <jc_> apt: how are you ?
Dec 18 00:53:35 <apt> I think you lost me on that one, jc_
Dec 18 00:54:00 <jc_> lol
Dec 18 00:54:08 <Sargun> apt, go die in a fire
Dec 18 00:55:24 <orzo> hey
Dec 18 00:55:27 <jc_> apt: What's the Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything ?
Dec 18 00:55:30 <orzo> i'm back to trying to make usb devices work
Dec 18 00:55:37 <orzo> somebody told me i needed resistors
Dec 18 00:55:43 <orzo> teh wiki page doesnt say anything about that
Dec 18 00:55:50 <orzo> was that you, jc?
Dec 18 00:55:56 <CVirus> jc_: 42
Dec 18 00:55:59 <jc_> huh? :D
Dec 18 00:56:10 <jc_> CVirus hey don't help the guy :D
Dec 18 00:56:14 <UndrWater> that would be weird
Dec 18 00:56:15 <CVirus> LOL
Dec 18 00:56:21 <jc_> he should have figured that himself :D :D
Dec 18 00:56:32 <jc_> orzo: what do you mean specifically ?
Dec 18 00:56:49 <orzo> jc_: i was wondering if it was you who told me yesterday i was leaving out the resitors
Dec 18 00:56:53 <orzo> resistors
Dec 18 00:57:03 <jc_> USB uses pull up resistors to determine what kind of connection to use
Dec 18 00:57:09 <jc_> low speed or full speed
Dec 18 00:57:16 <jc_> on the datalines
Dec 18 00:57:32 <orzo> the data lines are connected to the neo
Dec 18 00:57:37 <jc_> I don't really remember but I'm drunk a little right now
Dec 18 00:57:46 <jc_> ok lemme check
Dec 18 00:58:11 <jc_> yeah I remember having conversation with you
Dec 18 00:58:19 <jc_> (or at least my logs remember)
Dec 18 00:58:24 <jc_> good enough to take the blame
Dec 18 00:58:26 <orzo> does usb1.1 have multiple speeds?
Dec 18 00:58:31 <jc_> yep
Dec 18 00:58:35 <jc_> two to be more specific
Dec 18 00:58:38 <jc_> low and full speed
Dec 18 00:58:45 <orzo> well
Dec 18 00:58:46 <jc_> low is 1.2Mbit or so and full is 12Mbit I think
Dec 18 00:59:00 <orzo> my data lines are direct from teh device to the neo
Dec 18 00:59:13 <orzo> surely those things have whatever resistors they need to determin speed
Dec 18 00:59:33 <jc_> the device should have that in it
Dec 18 00:59:37 <jc_> well
Dec 18 00:59:45 <jc_> the soc inside neo has two ports actually
Dec 18 00:59:50 <jc_> a host port and a device port
Dec 18 01:00:00 <jc_> I think they're switched somehow
Dec 18 01:00:01 <SpeedEvil> host port, and a host/device port
Dec 18 01:00:09 <jc_> multiplexed for the physical port you have on the fr
Dec 18 01:00:14 <SpeedEvil> the host port is connected to the bluetooth modem
Dec 18 01:00:19 <jc_> ok
Dec 18 01:00:22 <SpeedEvil> the host/device port is connected to the outside port
Dec 18 01:00:26 <jc_> SpeedEvil: thanks for clarification :)
Dec 18 01:00:39 <orzo> well
Dec 18 01:00:45 <orzo> i built a usb cable
Dec 18 01:00:51 <orzo> that draws power from an external source
Dec 18 01:00:51 <jc_> are you developing a device ?
Dec 18 01:01:00 <jc_> otherwise, you don't have to worry about that
Dec 18 01:01:13 <orzo> i have a neo1973
Dec 18 01:01:18 <orzo> it cannot power usb devices
Dec 18 01:01:41 <jc_> oh you mean making a passthrough that can power them
Dec 18 01:01:43 <jc_> I think I remember
Dec 18 01:01:47 <orzo> yes
Dec 18 01:02:23 <orzo> so why doesnt it work?
Dec 18 01:02:46 <jc_> wanna try crossing the data lines ?
Dec 18 01:02:49 <jc_> but that shouldn't be it..
Dec 18 01:02:57 <orzo> i connected white to white and green to green
Dec 18 01:03:06 <orzo> heh
Dec 18 01:03:10 <jc_> nad the power ?
Dec 18 01:03:12 <jc_> *and
Dec 18 01:03:15 <orzo> well
Dec 18 01:03:19 <orzo> that came from another cable
Dec 18 01:03:25 <orzo> but that was red to red and black to black
Dec 18 01:03:27 <jc_> oh
Dec 18 01:03:28 <orzo> actually
Dec 18 01:03:31 <orzo> i put all the reds together
Dec 18 01:03:32 <jc_> oooh
Dec 18 01:03:32 <jc_> dude
Dec 18 01:03:34 <orzo> and all teh blacks together
Dec 18 01:03:37 <jc_> you have to interconnect ground too
Dec 18 01:03:53 <jc_> from neo to device and the power source
Dec 18 01:04:12 <orzo> ya
Dec 18 01:04:13 <orzo> well
Dec 18 01:04:14 <jc_> otherwise they can't communicate anything
Dec 18 01:04:15 <orzo> like i said
Dec 18 01:04:20 <jc_> yep
Dec 18 01:04:23 <orzo> ground is black right?>
Dec 18 01:04:23 <jc_> all the blacks together
Dec 18 01:04:26 <orzo> yeah
Dec 18 01:04:28 <jc_> lets see
Dec 18 01:04:28 <orzo> i did that
Dec 18 01:04:33 <orzo> all blacks teogether
Dec 18 01:04:36 <orzo> all reds together
Dec 18 01:04:44 <orzo> and the data cables from teh power source are left dangling
Dec 18 01:04:51 <orzo> two wires
Dec 18 01:04:53 <orzo> white and green
Dec 18 01:05:01 <jc_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinout#USB_pinout
Dec 18 01:05:18 <jc_> I don't know about 'all reds together'
Dec 18 01:05:24 <jc_> I think you shouldn't connect it to the neo
Dec 18 01:05:36 <orzo> well
Dec 18 01:05:39 <jc_> otherwise it would draw power too
Dec 18 01:05:42 <orzo> i thought i could use the same cable to charge the neo
Dec 18 01:05:59 <jc_> normally without negotiation, you should suck only 100mA tops from the port, afaik
Dec 18 01:06:11 <orzo> ya
Dec 18 01:06:12 <jc_> I get it you powered it from another USB hosts power line ?
Dec 18 01:06:12 <orzo> well
Dec 18 01:06:24 <orzo> ya
Dec 18 01:06:28 <orzo> actually i have a wall adapter to usb
Dec 18 01:06:33 <jc_> yep then you shouldn't connect red to neo
Dec 18 01:06:38 <jc_> I think it tries to charge
Dec 18 01:06:39 <orzo> why not?
Dec 18 01:06:43 <jc_> so it sucks all the power
Dec 18 01:06:51 <orzo> eh
Dec 18 01:06:54 <orzo> i run apm
Dec 18 01:07:01 <orzo> it says it is On-Line and givesa percentage
Dec 18 01:07:04 <orzo> it does not say charging
Dec 18 01:07:05 <jc_> but I'm not familiar with gta01, could be I'm mislead
Dec 18 01:07:11 <orzo> its not charging
Dec 18 01:07:22 <jc_> still it could leech power
Dec 18 01:07:24 <orzo> the power is connected to a wall outlet
Dec 18 01:07:26 <orzo> ya
Dec 18 01:07:30 <orzo> well i dont mind a little leaching
Dec 18 01:07:38 <orzo> my devices are obviously fully powered
Dec 18 01:07:38 <jc_> wall outlet ?
Dec 18 01:07:42 <jc_> thats not a normal host
Dec 18 01:07:44 <jc_> then thats ok
Dec 18 01:07:47 <orzo> ya
Dec 18 01:07:49 <orzo> okay then
Dec 18 01:07:55 <orzo> the data wires are disconnected anyway
Dec 18 01:08:00 <orzo> from teh power source
Dec 18 01:08:02 <jc_> it should say its charging/ powered from usb though
Dec 18 01:08:08 <orzo> so i dont see how a normal usb host could mess it up
Dec 18 01:08:21 <jc_> well its not the host messing it up
Dec 18 01:08:26 <jc_> its neos power consumption
Dec 18 01:08:34 <jc_> the device expects it can suck 100mA out of the host
Dec 18 01:08:36 <jc_> neo does too
Dec 18 01:08:45 <orzo> well cant they?
Dec 18 01:08:45 <jc_> they can't share a single usb hosts power line
Dec 18 01:08:51 <raster> sucky sucky long time
Dec 18 01:09:04 <jc_> but with a wall outlet, at least the 2A from the fr, shouldn't be factor
Dec 18 01:09:22 <orzo> its a neo
Dec 18 01:09:25 <orzo> 1973
Dec 18 01:09:27 <orzo> not freerunner
Dec 18 01:09:44 <jc_> I know but I'm not familiar with it so I'm giving examples from fr
Dec 18 01:09:58 <orzo> well why doesnt it work
Dec 18 01:10:09 <orzo> maybe i should cross the data wires
Dec 18 01:10:18 <orzo> green to white and whiet to green
Dec 18 01:10:28 <jc_> you could try that
Dec 18 01:10:34 <orzo> i taped it all up tho
Dec 18 01:10:34 <jc_> certainly shouldn't harm it
Dec 18 01:10:34 <orzo> heh
Dec 18 01:10:41 <jc_> I would look on it with a scope
Dec 18 01:10:43 <jc_> on the data lines
Dec 18 01:10:50 <jc_> whether it at least tries to negotiate
Dec 18 01:10:59 <jc_> you should definitely set the neo to host mode first
Dec 18 01:11:36 <jc_> oh 12Mbit over a taped line shouldn't be a problem
Dec 18 01:11:44 <jc_> 12Mbit is tape friendly still ;)
Dec 18 01:14:14 <jc_> damn why does alcohol wine taste so awful when normal wine is good and sweet
Dec 18 01:15:30 <jc_> s/normal wine/grape/
Dec 18 01:15:30 <apt> jc_ meant: damn why does alcohol wine taste so awful when grape is good and sweet
Dec 18 01:16:32 <raster> try desert wine
Dec 18 01:16:39 <jc_> raster: whats that ?
Dec 18 01:17:18 <jc_> well I'm trying to get drunk enough to fall asleep, any alcohol will do...
Dec 18 01:17:24 <raster> wine you have for desert
Dec 18 01:17:33 <raster> its awesome
Dec 18 01:17:40 <jc_> this is some generic boxed wine :)
Dec 18 01:17:48 <raster> its actually become somewhat of a specialty of wineries in .au
Dec 18 01:17:56 <jc_> austria ?
Dec 18 01:17:59 <raster> it normally is about 10-15%
Dec 18 01:18:08 <raster> comes in small 300-500ml bottles
Dec 18 01:18:09 <jc_> yep this is 10%
Dec 18 01:18:11 <raster> and is really sweet
Dec 18 01:18:16 <raster> australia
Dec 18 01:18:22 <jc_> oh
Dec 18 01:18:27 <jc_> the other side of the globe :D
Dec 18 01:19:02 <UndrWater> raster: booting OM / illume on Treo
Dec 18 01:19:04 <raster> http://www.eastendcellars.com.au/search?variety=178
Dec 18 01:19:09 <raster> http://www.ebaycellars.com.au/tempControl.asp?class=Desert Wine
Dec 18 01:19:21 <raster> UndrWater: its great... until u try and use fso :(
Dec 18 01:19:29 <jc_> expert ;)
Dec 18 01:19:29 <raster> wo
Dec 18 01:19:34 * mwester shakes his head, and suggests a shot of good scotch whiskey beats wine.
Dec 18 01:19:45 <jc_> I had some rum too
Dec 18 01:19:54 <jc_> dunno hows it called in englies
Dec 18 01:19:54 <jc_> h
Dec 18 01:19:55 * UndrWater nods to mwester's suggestion
Dec 18 01:19:57 <jc_> english
Dec 18 01:19:58 <jc_> dammit
Dec 18 01:20:09 <mwester> Rum and wine?  together?  Your head will hurt in the morning!
Dec 18 01:20:22 <jc_> I hope so
Dec 18 01:20:32 <jc_> so I don't have to go to school and not feel bad about it
Dec 18 01:20:33 <mwester> No, that's no fun.
Dec 18 01:20:36 <raster> j rum is rum.. in ingles :)
Dec 18 01:20:55 <jc_> damn I hate alcohol...
Dec 18 01:20:59 <raster> mwester: could be worse
Dec 18 01:21:09 <raster> mwester: absinthe :)
Dec 18 01:21:20 <mwester> eeeeye!!!
Dec 18 01:21:21 <jc_> lemme check
Dec 18 01:21:32 <jc_> no.. no absint
Dec 18 01:21:41 <mwester> that stuff was illegal in a lot of places, wasn't it?
Dec 18 01:21:48 <jc_> we can buy it here
Dec 18 01:21:59 <jc_> is it bad? :D
Dec 18 01:22:08 <mwester> You can buy it here too.  I just don't understand why anyone would want to!
Dec 18 01:22:14 * mwester shudders
Dec 18 01:22:25 <jc_> well I can't understand why people buy beer either
Dec 18 01:22:27 <jc_> coke forever :D
Dec 18 01:22:35 <jc_> its not a good hacking beverage
Dec 18 01:22:44 <jc_> I'm getting my callbacks all wrong
Dec 18 01:23:04 <cjb> (the kind of absinthe available in the US isn't real absinthe.)
Dec 18 01:23:08 <UndrWater> raster: it's quick...almost seems smother than FR
Dec 18 01:23:21 <jc_> oh could you tell me what 'smooth' means ?
Dec 18 01:23:29 <jc_> I heard it lot of times but dictionary isnt any smarter
Dec 18 01:23:40 <jc_> I mean not like smooth as in smooth surface
Dec 18 01:23:59 <raster> mwester:  yeah. still. is. the 70% variety with the opiates is a bit of a killer
Dec 18 01:24:25 <raster> the one u mostly see is the 60% non-opiate one
Dec 18 01:24:27 <raster> that one is tame
Dec 18 01:24:46 <raster> jc_: like "that beer was smooth man!"
Dec 18 01:24:48 <raster> ?
Dec 18 01:24:55 <jc_> raster: yep
Dec 18 01:25:06 <jc_> good ?
Dec 18 01:26:02 <igor321> oh i love me some absinthe
Dec 18 01:26:29 <igor321> it's fun stuff, the whole procedure with burning the spoon or something
Dec 18 01:26:36 <igor321> i consider it a social drink
Dec 18 01:26:47 <jc_> huh
Dec 18 01:26:56 <jc_> raw coke can burn a coin, baby :D
Dec 18 01:27:12 <jc_> or rather melt, maybe
Dec 18 01:27:21 <igor321> yeah cola is also very cool
Dec 18 01:27:30 <jc_> also melts bad mood and environment awareness
Dec 18 01:27:43 <jc_> its called 'coca cola' here
Dec 18 01:27:53 <jc_> great for hacking
Dec 18 01:28:02 <igor321> how does it melt enviroment awareness? :)
Dec 18 01:28:09 <igor321> ain't it just sugar?
Dec 18 01:28:16 <jc_> you stop to perceive everything around the computer
Dec 18 01:28:22 <jc_> yeah and caffeine
Dec 18 01:28:48 <jc_> sugar is energy
Dec 18 01:29:10 <igor321> maybe better if you had some red bull
Dec 18 01:29:17 <igor321> and hack away
Dec 18 01:29:26 <jc_> yeah but I heard that destroys your insides
Dec 18 01:29:32 <jc_> its good too
Dec 18 01:29:43 <raster> jc_: yeah. means it was good
Dec 18 01:29:44 <raster> or more
Dec 18 01:29:49 <raster> the taste was smooth
Dec 18 01:29:49 <jc_> its really not that much about the energy boost, I guess its the sugar
Dec 18 01:29:51 <raster> ecample
Dec 18 01:29:53 <raster> example
Dec 18 01:29:56 <jc_> raster: thanks
Dec 18 01:30:08 <raster> cream is smooth
Dec 18 01:30:21 <raster> a dorito is not smooth
Dec 18 01:30:32 <jc_> so if my girlfriend says 'smooth'
Dec 18 01:30:38 <jc_> its very good, right :D
Dec 18 01:30:45 <raster> it means that it just slides down your throat smoothly and feels good - tastest good. nothing harsh or sharp
Dec 18 01:30:55 <raster> depends what your gf likes
Dec 18 01:30:58 <raster> :)
Dec 18 01:31:01 <raster> maybe she likes rough
Dec 18 01:31:02 <raster> :)
Dec 18 01:31:09 <jc_> oh I didn't mean alcohol
Dec 18 01:31:18 <jc_> but I don't have no girlfriend anymore
Dec 18 01:31:40 <jc_> so coke is smooth
Dec 18 01:31:49 <jc_> no bad sharp feeling
Dec 18 01:33:37 <igor321> jc_: you're czech?
Dec 18 01:34:04 <jc_> igor321: yup
Dec 18 01:34:16 <jc_> youre Russian? :D
Dec 18 01:34:23 <igor321> noice, i'm comin for new years
Dec 18 01:34:28 <drjnut> Hi anyone!
Dec 18 01:34:29 <igor321> no, croatian
Dec 18 01:34:32 <igor321> next to italy
Dec 18 01:34:44 <igor321> drjnut: hello
Dec 18 01:35:59 <jc_> yeah
Dec 18 01:36:02 <jc_> I was to c roatia actually :)
Dec 18 01:36:04 <jc_> twice :)
Dec 18 01:36:18 <igor321> on holidays? :)
Dec 18 01:36:21 <jc_> very similar language
Dec 18 01:36:23 <jc_> yeah :)
Dec 18 01:36:30 <drjnut> does anyone know where I can find the xglamo repository?
Dec 18 01:36:34 <igor321> i hope you enjoyed the sea, man ;)
Dec 18 01:36:39 <jc_> totally
Dec 18 01:36:43 <jc_> better than in Italy
Dec 18 01:37:22 <jc_> lemme check
Dec 18 01:37:32 <drjnut> I just want to take a quick look at the code
Dec 18 01:37:56 <jc_> drjnut: http://git.openmoko.org/?p=xglamo.git;a=summary
Dec 18 01:38:03 <drjnut> jc_, thx a log
Dec 18 01:38:07 <jc_> np
Dec 18 01:39:31 <drjnut> s/log/lot/
Dec 18 01:39:31 <apt> drjnut meant: jc_, thx a lot
Dec 18 01:40:09 <jc_> s/np/apt is such a smart boy/
Dec 18 01:40:10 <apt> jc_ meant: apt is such a smart boy
Dec 18 01:40:21 <jc_> :D
Dec 18 01:40:35 <drjnut> yup
Dec 18 01:41:05 <jc_> heey lets find a buffer overflow in apt
Dec 18 01:41:24 <drjnut> s/yup/\x00\x00/
Dec 18 01:41:24 <apt> drjnut meant: \x00\x00
Dec 18 01:41:29 <jc_> :))
Dec 18 01:41:33 <drjnut> s/yup/\x08\x08/
Dec 18 01:41:33 <apt> drjnut meant: \x08\x08
Dec 18 01:41:50 <jc_>  s/heey/\0/
Dec 18 01:41:59 <drjnut> !!!
Dec 18 01:42:00 <jc_> s/s/\0/
Dec 18 01:42:01 <apt> jc_ meant:  \0/heey/\0/
Dec 18 01:42:08 <jc_> damn
Dec 18 01:42:18 <jc_> the bastards indestructible
Dec 18 01:42:27 <jc_> apt: --help
Dec 18 01:42:36 <jc_> apt --help
Dec 18 01:42:42 <drjnut> !help
Dec 18 01:42:47 <drjnut> apt, !help
Dec 18 01:42:57 <drjnut> anyway....
Dec 18 01:43:07 <jc_> apt: where can I find openmoko ?
Dec 18 01:43:08 <apt> extra, extra, read all about it, openmoko is a joint venture of FIC and the open source community creating a complete open source phone platform stack. see http://openmoko.com
Dec 18 01:43:46 <SpeedEvil> Is that true anymore?
Dec 18 01:43:55 <jc_> apt: where can I find the answer to life the universe and everything
Dec 18 01:44:16 <drjnut> 42
Dec 18 01:44:27 <jc_> damnt don't help the poor AI
Dec 18 01:44:41 <drjnut> I hacked around /dev/fb0, displaying 16bpp graphics and was wondering if Xglamo enables us to do 24bpp
Dec 18 01:44:59 <jc_> depends on the chip I gues
Dec 18 01:45:00 <jc_> ss
Dec 18 01:45:11 <drjnut> ?
Dec 18 01:45:19 <jc_> on the glamo ?
Dec 18 01:45:27 <drjnut> yeah
Dec 18 01:45:31 <jc_> well
Dec 18 01:45:39 <jc_> I guess 24bpp is pretty much standard
Dec 18 01:46:32 <drjnut> Ok.. I thought it couldn't do anything but 16bpp cause I couldn't make the fbdev output more
Dec 18 01:46:48 <jc_> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Smedia_Glamo_3362 says nothing about that
Dec 18 01:47:00 <jc_> damn 16bpp
Dec 18 01:47:01 <drjnut> gotta read this
Dec 18 01:47:10 <jc_> thats like 5 bits per color ?
Dec 18 01:47:57 <jc_> wonder why I bitch about that
Dec 18 01:48:03 <drjnut> yes, and 6 for green
Dec 18 01:48:12 <jc_> I can only distinguish the 16 basic ones
Dec 18 01:48:17 <jc_> according to my girlfriend
Dec 18 01:48:50 <drjnut> my background image looks weird on 16bpp...
Dec 18 01:48:53 <raster> who you dont have anymore
Dec 18 01:49:11 <jc_> yep
Dec 18 01:49:16 <raster> drjnut:  it can at best to 16bit rgb565
Dec 18 01:49:19 <jc_> hows that called in english
Dec 18 01:49:19 <raster> no better
Dec 18 01:49:22 <jc_> oh.. .ex
Dec 18 01:49:25 <jc_> damn dictionary
Dec 18 01:49:32 <raster> jc_:  yes. "my ex"
Dec 18 01:49:33 <raster> :)
Dec 18 01:49:35 <drjnut> raster, ok, that's what I figured
Dec 18 01:50:05 <jc_> well I can't distuingish that so I don't mind :D
Dec 18 01:50:32 <drjnut> raster, I don't know much about EFL, are you using 32bpp with 8bpp of alpha internally?
Dec 18 01:51:07 <drjnut> do the compositing in 32bpp and convert to 16bpp for display?
Dec 18 01:51:35 <jc_> shouldn't it be able to composite in hardware ?
Dec 18 01:51:40 <jc_> it has opengl right ?
Dec 18 01:51:48 * drjnut is not complaining about anything, just trying to understand how it works
Dec 18 01:51:52 <raster> drjnut: the normal siftware enigne is 32bpp internally - yes wiht 8bits of alpha
Dec 18 01:51:55 <raster> there are many engines
Dec 18 01:51:56 <raster> xrender
Dec 18 01:51:57 <raster> opengl
Dec 18 01:51:59 <raster> driectfb
Dec 18 01:51:59 <jc_> yeah I'd like some docs on glamo too
Dec 18 01:52:02 <raster> directx
Dec 18 01:52:03 <raster> ...
Dec 18 01:52:13 <raster> just the best overall is the software
Dec 18 01:52:17 <drjnut> ok
Dec 18 01:52:18 <jc_> its the beautiful part on the freerunner devboard
Dec 18 01:52:24 <raster> it gteneralyl performs consistently well (if your cpu is good)
Dec 18 01:52:31 <raster> and renders correctly, with no bugs
Dec 18 01:52:35 <raster> xrender is hit and miss
Dec 18 01:52:42 <raster> depends enitrely on card and drviers
Dec 18 01:52:44 <raster> gl - same
Dec 18 01:52:48 <drjnut> ok
Dec 18 01:53:07 <raster> directfb overall has been fairly lackluster in all departments
Dec 18 01:53:21 <raster> cairo was a dismal failure (25x slower than evas's software engine)
Dec 18 01:53:28 <raster> ...
Dec 18 01:53:32 <drjnut> ;-)
Dec 18 01:53:32 <raster> but the engine is selectable
Dec 18 01:53:45 <raster> your app stays the same except for the canvas init code which is a 1 liner
Dec 18 01:53:55 <raster> in fact elementary now abstracts that ctotally
Dec 18 01:53:59 <raster> u just set an environment var
Dec 18 01:54:00 <jc_> 'eva' ?
Dec 18 01:54:02 <raster> and u can flip engines
Dec 18 01:54:05 <raster> even run in the fb
Dec 18 01:54:11 <UndrWater> evas
Dec 18 01:54:12 <raster> evas
Dec 18 01:54:32 <jc_> guess it doesn't stand for 'Emergency Vision Assurance System
Dec 18 01:54:33 <jc_> '
Dec 18 01:54:39 <drjnut> fb must be slower thant Xglamo, right?
Dec 18 01:54:47 <raster> it stands for "enlightenment canvas"
Dec 18 01:54:48 <raster> :)
Dec 18 01:54:57 <jc_> oh, enlightenment stuff
Dec 18 01:55:01 <raster> yes
Dec 18 01:55:10 <raster> kde stole "k'
Dec 18 01:55:13 <raster> gnome stole 'g"
Dec 18 01:55:14 <raster> damnit
Dec 18 01:55:15 <jc_> the thing I don't like about e is that my mplayer window gets all stretched
Dec 18 01:55:17 <raster> we stole 'e'
Dec 18 01:55:18 <raster> :)
Dec 18 01:55:34 <raster> mplayer looks fine here
Dec 18 01:55:46 * drjnut is thinking about stealing ΓΌ
Dec 18 01:55:47 <jc_> yeah and since qt stole the 'q' qemu gives me the creeps
Dec 18 01:56:01 <jc_> also I'm alergic to k
Dec 18 01:56:05 <jc_> since kde
Dec 18 01:56:15 <jc_> kare for some korn ? :D
Dec 18 01:56:18 <drjnut> K is bad for the brain
Dec 18 01:56:47 <drjnut> but is right if you only want to make some animal sleep
Dec 18 01:57:05 <jc_> like a gay green dragon
Dec 18 01:57:18 <jc_> lol
Dec 18 01:57:44 <raster> hahaha
Dec 18 01:58:04 <jc_> really enlightenmet at least has a nice aura about it
Dec 18 01:58:35 <jc_> k-substituting everything beginning with 'c' is just so braindead
Dec 18 01:58:46 <jc_> makes you run around in circles and scream
Dec 18 01:58:52 <igor321_> made me hate linux the first i saw it
Dec 18 01:58:56 <jc_> me too
Dec 18 01:58:59 <igor321_> it's really retarded
Dec 18 01:59:00 <jc_> I started on mandriva
Dec 18 01:59:04 <jc_> kde in default
Dec 18 01:59:08 <jc_> mandrake, back then
Dec 18 01:59:14 <jc_> yeah
Dec 18 01:59:18 <igor321_> i was so pissed on Kopete
Dec 18 01:59:26 <igor321_> it's a really ugly name
Dec 18 01:59:30 <jc_> dont wanna hear what that means in our langueage
Dec 18 01:59:34 <jc_> *language
Dec 18 01:59:39 <igor321_> there are others i'm sure :)
Dec 18 01:59:53 <jc_> it means 'kicks you' :D
Dec 18 02:00:09 <jc_> (repeatetly)
Dec 18 02:00:20 <igor321_> hehe
Dec 18 02:00:37 <jc_> well, 'kope t?' actually
Dec 18 02:00:41 <jc_> but close enough
Dec 18 02:00:50 <igor321_> it's sound something like "digging" in croatian
Dec 18 02:01:13 <jc_> whats that ? :D
Dec 18 02:01:25 <igor321_> just the verb u know
Dec 18 02:01:27 <igor321_> to dig
Dec 18 02:01:35 <jc_> yeah
Dec 18 02:01:38 <jc_> kopat is to dig in czech tooo
Dec 18 02:01:41 <jc_> *too
Dec 18 02:01:42 <igor321_> with a shovel or something :)
Dec 18 02:01:45 <igor321_> noice
Dec 18 02:01:45 <jc_> yep
Dec 18 02:02:12 <igor321_> i'm thinking of reading a phrasebook or something, since i'll be spending the new years in prague
Dec 18 02:02:14 <jc_> croatian and czech are very similar
Dec 18 02:02:36 <jc_> bad for you
Dec 18 02:02:43 <igor321_> yes they are, but you guys speak kinda fast for my taste :)
Dec 18 02:02:44 <jc_> well anyway I don't like prague
Dec 18 02:02:50 <jc_> maybe cause thats what my ex is from
Dec 18 02:03:06 <igor321_> we'll there are other fish in the sea
Dec 18 02:03:15 <igor321_> under the bridge, whatever ;(
Dec 18 02:03:18 <igor321_> ;)
Dec 18 02:03:22 <jc_> huh ? :D
Dec 18 02:03:25 <jc_> you mean like girls ?
Dec 18 02:03:28 <igor321_> yeah
Dec 18 02:03:31 <jc_> thats true
Dec 18 02:03:32 <igor321_> it's a phrase
Dec 18 02:03:40 <jc_> yep we use that here too
Dec 18 02:03:53 <jc_> even though we don't have as  much water here :D
Dec 18 02:04:03 <jc_> damn your beaches are crazy
Dec 18 02:04:07 <drjnut> raster, http://www.illume.com/ just froze my browser....
Dec 18 02:04:20 <igor321_> yeah, i'm from split? ever been here?
Dec 18 02:04:21 <raster> drjnut:  no idea who illume.com is
Dec 18 02:04:25 <drjnut> i know
Dec 18 02:04:26 <jc_> all the girls catching the bronze without bras one like nothings happening :D
Dec 18 02:04:34 <jc_> or bikini
Dec 18 02:04:38 <raster> nothing i can do about it
Dec 18 02:04:39 <jc_> whatever its called
Dec 18 02:04:41 <raster> :)
Dec 18 02:04:45 <jc_> hey why do anything about it
Dec 18 02:04:46 <drjnut> Just wanted to see the ".com" side of the name ;)
Dec 18 02:05:02 <jc_> I was near Makarska at the south
Dec 18 02:05:09 <jc_> that nice riviera :)
Dec 18 02:05:19 <jc_> really romantic there
Dec 18 02:05:30 <igor321_> yeah, i'm a bit to the north, some 40 km or so
Dec 18 02:05:45 <jc_> and for first time, I was north too
Dec 18 02:05:49 <jc_> I think it was called plava laguna
Dec 18 02:06:04 <igor321_> yupp :)
Dec 18 02:06:08 <jc_> nice too :)
Dec 18 02:06:31 <igor321_> hey, has prague gotten expensive? i hope not
Dec 18 02:06:49 <jc_> well prague was always a little more expensive than the rest of the country
Dec 18 02:06:49 <igor321_> we're kinda expecting to get drunk cheap ;)
Dec 18 02:07:03 <jc_> dunno, wasnt at the bars
Dec 18 02:07:11 <jc_> just at the parks and stuff, with my ex :D
Dec 18 02:07:14 <jc_> she doesn't drink
Dec 18 02:07:16 <jc_> me either, normally
Dec 18 02:07:33 <jc_> *neither
Dec 18 02:07:37 <igor321_> that's good, i guess ;)
Dec 18 02:08:15 <jc_> yeah, lots of people I know don't think its easy to get them laid without getting them drunk first
Dec 18 02:08:46 <jc_> proved them wrong I guess
Dec 18 02:09:00 <slaxxin> better sober up before u get laid
Dec 18 02:09:04 <jc_> yeah
Dec 18 02:09:09 <jc_> I don't like ti
Dec 18 02:09:11 <jc_> it
Dec 18 02:09:20 <igor321_> i can't really comment, never really been sober in social situations
Dec 18 02:09:28 <jc_> try it sometime
Dec 18 02:09:32 <igor321_> and my gf also likes to dring
Dec 18 02:09:33 <igor321_> k
Dec 18 02:09:45 <jc_> yeah croatians are crazy with that :)
Dec 18 02:09:52 <drjnut> The idea is to make chicks eyes shine, doesn't matter if you have to use alcohol to achieve this...
Dec 18 02:09:55 <jc_> as we got to know our neighbours and stuff
Dec 18 02:10:07 <jc_> hey good for you, czech girls are the same usually
Dec 18 02:10:11 <jc_> cheap bitches
Dec 18 02:10:14 <jc_> but theyre nice
Dec 18 02:10:19 <jc_> like in appearance
Dec 18 02:10:41 <igor321_> yeah the czech girls have legendary status here
Dec 18 02:10:44 <igor321_> :)
Dec 18 02:10:47 <jc_> why is that? ;)
Dec 18 02:11:09 <igor321_> i'm really sorry for this...
Dec 18 02:11:18 <igor321_> but it's for being easy :)
Dec 18 02:11:23 <jc_> nevermind I hate most of them
Dec 18 02:11:30 <jc_> agreed
Dec 18 02:11:39 <slaxxin> we love all of them:)
Dec 18 02:11:48 <igor321_> hehe
Dec 18 02:11:49 <jc_> you ever seen a czech girl? ;P
Dec 18 02:12:20 <igor321_> i saw 'em, but never really got to know 'em
Dec 18 02:12:30 <igor321_> the "lover" guys probably have more to say
Dec 18 02:12:30 <jc_> I did unfortunately :D :D
Dec 18 02:12:41 <jc_> I'm not lover either
Dec 18 02:12:56 <jc_> as in sex directed crazed person
Dec 18 02:13:03 <jc_> I really loved her
Dec 18 02:13:14 <jc_> she was smarter than your common czech girl
Dec 18 02:13:18 <jc_> too smart for me I guess
Dec 18 02:13:20 <igor321_> did she run windows?
Dec 18 02:13:28 <jc_> yeah but I didn't mind
Dec 18 02:13:38 <jc_> actually I have one girlfriend (normal friend) who runs gentoo
Dec 18 02:13:47 <igor321_> you were really in love then ;)
Dec 18 02:13:53 <jc_> lol
Dec 18 02:13:59 <jc_> if you put it that way, yes :D
Dec 18 02:14:15 <igor321_> my girlfriend runs xp unfortunately
Dec 18 02:14:22 <jc_> why mind ?
Dec 18 02:14:32 <igor321_> i don't :)
Dec 18 02:14:34 <jc_> I don't need to share linux frustration
Dec 18 02:14:38 <jc_> the life frustration is enough
Dec 18 02:14:54 <igor321_> she likes the cute penguin, though
Dec 18 02:15:02 <jc_> heeey you have a plush penguin too? :D
Dec 18 02:15:08 <jc_> my ex loved that too :D
Dec 18 02:15:12 <igor321_> thinks he's sweet, AIN'T NOTHING SWEET ABOUT TUX WOMAN
Dec 18 02:15:33 <igor321_> no i have no penguins
Dec 18 02:15:45 <jc_> I have one sitting on my wireless router :D
Dec 18 02:15:50 <jc_> cute one too
Dec 18 02:15:53 <jc_> golden penguin
Dec 18 02:15:57 <jc_> my ex got it for me :D
Dec 18 02:16:10 <igor321_> but i bought a wifi dongle, cause it sported tux on the box, 10 euros more expensiv, though
Dec 18 02:16:13 <jc_> oh king penguin actually
Dec 18 02:16:14 <igor321_> wuz worth it
Dec 18 02:16:40 <igor321_> nice :)
Dec 18 02:16:41 <jc_> ah forgot you already pay with euros
Dec 18 02:16:47 <igor321_> no we don't
Dec 18 02:16:52 <igor321_> not even in the eu
Dec 18 02:17:03 <igor321_> but everybody counts in euros 
Dec 18 02:17:06 <jc_> we are in eu, unfortunately
Dec 18 02:17:12 <jc_> yep our accomodation was in euros
Dec 18 02:17:19 <jc_> but otherwise we paid in kuna
Dec 18 02:17:37 <jc_> kuna is an animal in our language :D
Dec 18 02:17:44 <igor321_> in ours too
Dec 18 02:17:59 <igor321_> we used to hunt em for currency :P
Dec 18 02:18:00 <jc_> I think it was on the coin
Dec 18 02:18:02 <jc_> lol :)
Dec 18 02:18:25 <jc_> hey according to dictionary, its 'pine-martin' in english
Dec 18 02:18:48 <igor321_> i guess it's not a common animal amongs the english ;)
Dec 18 02:19:01 <jc_> us too, I can't recall how it looks
Dec 18 02:19:03 <jc_> is this it? http://www.robertweselmann.com/images/pine_martin2.jpg
Dec 18 02:19:21 <igor321_> probably, never saw one
Dec 18 02:19:25 <jc_> me neither
Dec 18 02:19:37 <igor321_> it looks like that on the coin, so it must be it
Dec 18 02:19:59 <jc_> dobro
Dec 18 02:20:07 <igor321_> okej
Dec 18 02:20:11 <igor321_> ;)
Dec 18 02:20:35 <jc_> well our currency has a 'crown' on it, like a royal crown
Dec 18 02:20:44 <jc_> because we were a monarchy for a long time
Dec 18 02:20:57 <igor321_> yeah i know kruna's well, spent a lot of em
Dec 18 02:21:00 <jc_> and every country around make us theyr bitch whenever they made an empire
Dec 18 02:21:07 <igor321_> even know the exchange rate
Dec 18 02:21:16 <jc_> like austrian empire and germany reich
Dec 18 02:21:37 <igor321_> yeah we too were under austria
Dec 18 02:21:50 <igor321_> and a nazi puppet state, wuz great fun
Dec 18 02:21:50 <jc_> what retarded bastards were they
Dec 18 02:22:05 <jc_> history books tell they actually breeded amongst themselves :D
Dec 18 02:22:18 <igor321_> who? austrians?
Dec 18 02:22:26 <igor321_> i doubt that, they're kinda tall
Dec 18 02:22:32 <jc_> the austrian nobility
Dec 18 02:23:01 <jc_> we learned that they breeded amongs other family members because they thought they were the ultimate race
Dec 18 02:23:07 <igor321_> well most noble families probably did
Dec 18 02:23:14 <igor321_> that's why they have bad teeth
Dec 18 02:23:19 <jc_> yeah
Dec 18 02:23:20 <igor321_> and hemophilia
Dec 18 02:23:24 <jc_> lol
Dec 18 02:23:47 <jc_> we can bitch about it whatever we want but still we didn't fight
Dec 18 02:24:02 <jc_> not much anyway
Dec 18 02:24:28 <jc_> and now we join the bastards unions
Dec 18 02:24:51 <jc_> well, they're not bad anymore so what anyway...
Dec 18 02:25:02 <igor321_> i dunno i don't really hate the EU
Dec 18 02:25:09 <jc_> me neither, that much
Dec 18 02:25:10 <igor321_> gimme some dirt so i can hate 'em
Dec 18 02:25:13 <igor321_> :)
Dec 18 02:25:24 <jc_> but you heard about the lisbon contract recently ?
Dec 18 02:25:31 <igor321_> yupp
Dec 18 02:25:35 <jc_> baaaaad crap
Dec 18 02:25:38 <igor321_> the irish rejected it
Dec 18 02:25:44 <jc_> yeah I hope we do too
Dec 18 02:25:54 <jc_> but we have goddamn bastard governemnt
Dec 18 02:25:58 <igor321_> isn't your president really anti-eu?
Dec 18 02:26:02 <jc_> he is
Dec 18 02:26:05 <jc_> but hes just a puppet
Dec 18 02:26:07 <jc_> he has no say
Dec 18 02:26:11 <igor321_> aha
Dec 18 02:27:02 <jc_> well you want some dirt ?
Dec 18 02:27:08 <igor321_> gimmeh
Dec 18 02:27:10 <jc_> not hard to find
Dec 18 02:27:33 <jc_> there are many controversies around our smallish little government
Dec 18 02:27:56 <jc_> lets go for an easy one at first
Dec 18 02:28:12 <jc_> you know what a ranting little cunt our prime minister is? he has no temper
Dec 18 02:28:28 <igor321_> oh man harsh words
Dec 18 02:28:29 <SpeedEvil> jc_: where are you?
Dec 18 02:28:50 <igor321_> czech republic
Dec 18 02:28:50 <jc_> I guess there must also be an english article about that, this one was a big controversy, lemme check
Dec 18 02:30:30 <jc_> oh yes its still on youtube
Dec 18 02:30:33 <jc_> but old already
Dec 18 02:30:54 <jc_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1DRZbbyzgk&feature=related
Dec 18 02:31:03 <igor321_> our hoolingans made some mess in prague, forgot to apologize about that
Dec 18 02:31:08 <igor321_> sorry man :)
Dec 18 02:31:14 <jc_> dunno about that :D
Dec 18 02:31:22 <jc_> and many of our divers died in croatia too :D
Dec 18 02:31:37 <jc_> hehe
Dec 18 02:31:49 <jc_> ok that wasn't topolanek, it was macek but its bad anyway
Dec 18 02:31:52 <igor321_> oh man he told him he deserved it
Dec 18 02:32:00 <igor321_> i understood that
Dec 18 02:32:01 <jc_> lets see something else about our prime minister
Dec 18 02:32:29 <jc_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7Xdddzg-28
Dec 18 02:32:59 <jc_> that was him and it wasn't sloely on youtube of course, news were full with it
Dec 18 02:33:01 <jc_> he has no temper
Dec 18 02:33:02 <igor321_> we call this kind of blast upside the head "the viennese" :)
Dec 18 02:33:16 <jc_> yeah :)
Dec 18 02:34:06 <igor321_> wow your pm is such a bad ass
Dec 18 02:34:14 <jc_> hes a ranting little cunt
Dec 18 02:34:19 <jc_> he plays a tough guy
Dec 18 02:34:21 <jc_> and a mafia
Dec 18 02:34:29 <igor321_> man you czechs ain't so polite ;)
Dec 18 02:34:31 <jc_> but he has lot of money, thats true
Dec 18 02:34:39 <jc_> we don't like him
Dec 18 02:34:50 <jc_> and we can't do nothing about him
Dec 18 02:35:01 <jc_> because we are a 'democratic' state
Dec 18 02:35:06 <igor321_> well you'll vote him out soon enough :)
Dec 18 02:35:19 <jc_> the only other major choice is a socialist bitch side
Dec 18 02:35:22 <jc_> oooh and Paroubek
Dec 18 02:35:29 <jc_> lemme show you something about him too
Dec 18 02:35:32 <igor321_> i'd like of our pm to be more of a badass like yours
Dec 18 02:36:15 <jc_> daaamn its not on anymore :D
Dec 18 02:36:37 <jc_> I think you have terms like 'levice' and 'pravice' too
Dec 18 02:37:10 <jc_> well the current party with majority here is 'pravice' and the only other choice is extreme 'levice'
Dec 18 02:37:20 <jc_> neither is good
Dec 18 02:37:30 <slaxxin> i got 150 dollars on the guy on the left
Dec 18 02:38:45 <jc_> lol
Dec 18 02:38:49 <jc_> neither won
Dec 18 02:39:01 <jc_> but they were publicly bitching for a long time afterwards
Dec 18 02:39:01 <igor321_> it's funny how everyone's just watchin
Dec 18 02:39:13 <jc_> both
Dec 18 02:39:21 <igor321_> macek's a badass
Dec 18 02:39:36 <jc_> in translation it is something like
Dec 18 02:39:58 <jc_> if you'll just excuse me I have some serious matters to attend to before we begin
Dec 18 02:40:02 <jc_> or maybe 'if I may'
Dec 18 02:40:06 <jc_> that was the preface :D
Dec 18 02:40:18 <igor321_> what's a "zbabijelec"?
Dec 18 02:40:21 <igor321_> coward?
Dec 18 02:40:23 <jc_> zbabelev
Dec 18 02:40:28 <jc_> zbab?lec
Dec 18 02:40:30 <jc_> coward, yep
Dec 18 02:41:15 <mpr> if both existing choices are bad then why aren't the people forming new parties?
Dec 18 02:41:16 <jc_> oh
Dec 18 02:41:47 <mpr> are the people bad too or does the system have impossible barriers for forming new parties or what?
Dec 18 02:41:48 <jc_> actually its more like 'Allow me before I begin moderating to attend to a totally private matter'
Dec 18 02:41:56 <jc_> lazy
Dec 18 02:42:03 <jc_> zand yes they are
Dec 18 02:42:12 <jc_> there are too many and they never get a majority
Dec 18 02:42:27 <igor321_> it usually comes down to the 2 party system... why? i dunno
Dec 18 02:42:43 <igor321_> possibly there are two kinds of people
Dec 18 02:42:57 <jc_> so senate and chamber of deputies is full of those two extreme bitchces
Dec 18 02:43:03 <jc_> well, for now, only of the one side
Dec 18 02:43:11 <jc_> but they lost the last votes totally
Dec 18 02:43:13 <mpr> well at least finland has had a multi-party system for a long time :)
Dec 18 02:43:23 <jc_> heey finland is cool
Dec 18 02:43:24 <jc_> I love your metal :D
Dec 18 02:43:33 <jc_> Nightwish forever !
Dec 18 02:43:39 <jc_> and Indica
Dec 18 02:43:48 <igor321_> man multi-party sounds like a party, if u know wat i'm sayin
Dec 18 02:43:59 <jc_> yeah
Dec 18 02:44:03 <jc_> its a two party system
Dec 18 02:44:13 <jc_> one year the first wins, second year the other
Dec 18 02:44:19 <mpr> there are 3 big parties of which 2 usually end up in power and 1 in opposition in any given election
Dec 18 02:44:20 <jc_> and sometimes they are evenly matched
Dec 18 02:44:26 <jc_> those are the better times
Dec 18 02:44:26 <mpr> and then multiple small parties
Dec 18 02:44:55 <igor321_> maybe if u had a "pirate" party....
Dec 18 02:45:07 <jc_> I hope its said the same in croatian :P
Dec 18 02:45:10 <jc_> 'politika je na hovno'
Dec 18 02:46:08 <jc_> well they don't do us much harm actually, its just that they are such bitches and make fools out of them
Dec 18 02:46:16 <jc_> I think as a state we kinda work
Dec 18 02:47:01 <jc_> they just 'do theyr job', sometimes raise some controversy, rob out some companies, do dirty jobs, raise themselves some money and leave
Dec 18 02:47:26 <jc_> and whenever people are ranting about something they grant them the liberty of it so they at least are beloved for a while
Dec 18 02:47:43 <jc_> amongs the common folk who don't se theyr lies and populistic behavior anyway
Dec 18 02:47:50 <jc_> *see
Dec 18 02:48:02 <igor321_> i'm youtubing "politican brawl", i was inspired
Dec 18 02:48:14 <igor321_> there are some great fights in parliaments
Dec 18 02:48:37 <jc_> yeah we must be legandary in that
Dec 18 02:48:57 <jc_> if there was a politician fighting ring, I guess our badassess would be among the best ones
Dec 18 02:49:08 <igor321_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djdy_fhvZuM
Dec 18 02:49:15 <igor321_> check out the japanese
Dec 18 02:49:22 <igor321_> those are some moves :)
Dec 18 02:49:31 <jc_> but the greece riots are cool too
Dec 18 02:49:43 <jc_> wow
Dec 18 02:49:50 <jc_> aikido ! :D
Dec 18 02:49:59 <jc_> we aint got no oriental style
Dec 18 02:50:06 <jc_> they just beat the shit out of each other :D
Dec 18 02:51:08 <igor321_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1o68Vip5O4
Dec 18 02:51:10 <jc_> but the greece riotists are cool
Dec 18 02:51:13 <jc_> theyre using lasers
Dec 18 02:51:31 <jc_> wow
Dec 18 02:51:34 <jc_> crazy bitches :D
Dec 18 02:52:08 <jc_> and here comes the lead semiconductor country
Dec 18 02:53:06 <jc_> be glad we have free internet at least
Dec 18 02:53:16 <jc_> what are the chinese supposed to say ;)
Dec 18 02:53:56 <jc_> oh but if you come to czech republic, beware that all your online communications are logged, for at least a month period
Dec 18 02:54:47 <igor321_> they are?
Dec 18 02:54:50 <jc_> yeah
Dec 18 02:54:54 <jc_> since 2003
Dec 18 02:55:02 <igor321_> weren't planning on doing anything illegal, but still
Dec 18 02:55:13 <jc_> stupid law of electronic communications
Dec 18 02:55:29 <jc_> they log all your http and mail headers
Dec 18 02:55:36 <jc_> I worked for a provider so we had to do that
Dec 18 02:55:58 <jc_> also mail bodies, excerpt of http content and ips of all other communication
Dec 18 02:56:03 <jc_> i.e. udp and tcp headers
Dec 18 02:56:21 <jc_> but they can't filter anything
Dec 18 02:56:29 <jc_> like chinese have with google and stuff
Dec 18 02:56:48 <jc_> we already know our government is bad anyway so why hide it ;)
Dec 18 02:56:59 <jc_> they're not communist anymore so what
Dec 18 02:57:11 <igor321_> that's totally uncool
Dec 18 02:57:28 <jc_> yeah didn't agree with the logging either
Dec 18 02:57:34 <jc_> but you can use like tor or something
Dec 18 02:57:36 <jc_> not barred
Dec 18 02:58:15 <igor321_> our government is retarded when they wanna like stop facebook groups and stupid stuff like that, but at least they ain't loggin me
Dec 18 02:58:22 <igor321_> as far as i know ;)
Dec 18 02:58:24 <jc_> lol
Dec 18 02:58:28 <jc_> they block sites ?
Dec 18 02:58:32 <igor321_> nope
Dec 18 02:58:47 <igor321_> they contact facebook or whatever
Dec 18 02:58:54 <jc_> why do that? :)
Dec 18 02:58:58 <igor321_> they never sucseed, it's really retarded
Dec 18 02:59:14 <igor321_> well someone makes a group called "our pm sucks monkey balls"
Dec 18 02:59:28 <igor321_> and then they send the police to close it down or whatever
Dec 18 02:59:28 <jc_> lol we have full web of that :D
Dec 18 02:59:32 <igor321_> it's really funny
Dec 18 02:59:33 <jc_> even the news :D
Dec 18 02:59:52 <jc_> when your search our pm's name its 99% shit and 1% propaganda
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Dec 18 02:59:56 2008