**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Dec 19 02:59:57 2008 Dec 19 03:58:29 so are there any desktop gui libs that are good/appropriate for mobile apps? of does everything need to be done in mobile oriented gui kits? Dec 19 04:01:34 efl?-) Dec 19 04:02:46 thats what im wondering, or more specifically about wxpython Dec 19 04:03:18 what's wxpython got to do with efl? Dec 19 04:04:23 seems that wxpython is just a python wrapper for wxwidgets? Dec 19 04:04:45 whatever you like to use Dec 19 04:04:48 me.. i like efl... Dec 19 04:04:54 but... i'm biased Dec 19 04:07:08 is someone actually using wxwidgets for mobile stuff? Dec 19 04:07:35 or for anything, my understanding is that it's not seen much activity in the last 5 years? Dec 19 04:08:23 some people use it Dec 19 04:08:35 but xwwidgets i think now uses gtk underneath - irght? Dec 19 04:10:56 or more exactly on unix it uses gtk Dec 19 04:10:59 or something Dec 19 04:11:01 not sure Dec 19 04:11:18 it also has its own widget drawing engine Dec 19 04:11:58 I think it can run either on top of gtk or directly on x11 Dec 19 04:12:00 not sure Dec 19 04:12:45 dunno Dec 19 04:12:50 dont much mind what xw does Dec 19 04:12:54 got my own stuff Dec 19 04:12:55 :) Dec 19 04:13:26 since it's cross-platform it has multiple backends anyway, the windows stuff sure as hell isn't using gtk :) Dec 19 04:14:26 i'll stick to efl :) Dec 19 04:14:34 but still the widget set is 10 years old and looks like it Dec 19 04:14:39 yeah Dec 19 04:14:45 looks dated Dec 19 04:14:58 any wx apps i've seen felt clunky Dec 19 04:15:42 reminds me Dec 19 04:15:50 i need to write a wiki page about elementary Dec 19 04:21:25 emacs is a lot older than 10 years, and is still the best doggone UI for a text editor that exists. :P Dec 19 04:21:34 * mwester is not a fan of eye candy. Dec 19 04:22:09 * mwester thought SunWindows was perfectly usable as a UI, and it ran very nicely on a *nix-based box with a grand total of 4MB of RAM. Dec 19 04:22:24 mwester: bah! when i was your age we didnt have text editors! we'd write out code using twigs and pebbles! Dec 19 04:22:35 hehe! Dec 19 04:22:48 Well, I was around when dirt was invented! Dec 19 04:24:30 bah! dirt! that was an upgrade when that was invented! Dec 19 04:24:55 before dirt we had dreams of one day having dirt! Dec 19 04:27:46 :o Dec 19 04:27:55 Mmm.... dirty Dec 19 04:29:45 you dirty man! Dec 19 04:29:58 who wants me to write a bit of an elementary tutorial? Dec 19 04:30:42 * sicu raises both hands Dec 19 04:30:58 For what? Dec 19 04:31:10 for that elementary tutorial Dec 19 04:31:52 or was it because i obtained enlightenment... Dec 19 04:31:54 not sure Dec 19 04:33:06 hehehhee Dec 19 04:33:09 will do it Dec 19 04:33:13 finished toolbar widget Dec 19 04:33:16 well not finished Dec 19 04:33:20 it can be tweaked to be better Dec 19 04:33:21 but it works Dec 19 04:33:53 now... to write it up Dec 19 04:36:35 i hear there's a browser widget in the workings as well =] Dec 19 04:39:36 browser... widget? Dec 19 04:39:38 what? :p Dec 19 04:44:12 s/widget/module/ Dec 19 04:44:12 sicu meant: i hear there's a browser module in the workings as well =] Dec 19 04:44:22 hehe ... it's getting late ;p Dec 19 04:44:36 or early ... 05:44 :/ Dec 19 04:49:36 could anyone be polite enough help me with a FDOM install? Dec 19 05:04:05 :D Dec 19 05:11:31 what is the problem-- wanting it on sd or nand? Dec 19 05:13:08 genesis, what does it have to do with "being polite"? "being nice", yes... Dec 19 05:15:26 or even "being able" ... Dec 19 05:15:26 raster, about that tutorial, count me in the readers Dec 19 05:15:54 openmoko: 03john_lee * r4878 10/trunk/src/host/toolchain-scripts/ (11 files in 3 dirs): toolchain-scripts: get organized a bit. Dec 19 05:16:00 mwester, and sometimes "being sober" Dec 19 05:16:00 SD Dec 19 05:16:12 drjnut: :-O !! Dec 19 05:16:15 :P Dec 19 05:16:31 ;) Dec 19 05:16:48 ROMYCL Dec 19 05:17:09 Rocking on my chair laughing Dec 19 05:17:23 ROMCL actually Dec 19 05:17:42 don't fall ;) Dec 19 05:18:16 raster, additionally, a simple diagram explaining the goal will be great for having people adopt it Dec 19 05:18:40 diagram for adopting? Dec 19 05:18:45 elementary Dec 19 05:18:51 like? Dec 19 05:19:01 huh Dec 19 05:19:34 u mean a block-digram of system layers? Dec 19 05:19:45 yeah, something like that Dec 19 05:19:49 (ie marketing crap thast mostly means nothing as they are always innacurate) Dec 19 05:19:58 not this kind of crap Dec 19 05:20:21 I read about efl recently and the connected bubble diagram is fine there Dec 19 05:20:50 the one that shows of evas, ecore and such are using each other Dec 19 05:21:00 s/of/how/ Dec 19 05:21:01 drjnut meant: the one that shows how evas, ecore and such are using each other Dec 19 05:21:36 elementary is just another bubble with more thgns extending out to the other efl bubble bits Dec 19 05:21:37 :) Dec 19 05:21:42 its all reptty simple Dec 19 05:21:42 :) Dec 19 05:21:44 pretty Dec 19 05:22:23 reptty simple : "as simple as replicating consoles..." ;) Dec 19 05:23:24 anyway, forget about the diagram, do whatever you want, I know we'll end up with something good Dec 19 05:27:29 gosh u ran em off Dec 19 06:07:49 linuxxr, me? Dec 19 07:28:26 good morning Dec 19 07:29:57 hi, i was asking about gui toolkits before because i was wondering if there were any thata worked well on a desktop and a device like the GTA ? Dec 19 07:30:19 khaije1: GTK Dec 19 07:31:06 is that the only/best choice? i'm trying to get a lay of the land Dec 19 07:32:35 I think it's the best, not sure what others would be Dec 19 07:32:39 e.g. tangogps is written using it Dec 19 07:33:31 is it all gtk or are branches used, like hildon or GMAE ? Dec 19 07:37:46 it depends on the OM distro you're running, I guess Dec 19 07:37:55 but pretty much all of them support plain GTK Dec 19 07:42:03 etk is better Dec 19 07:44:15 more cool and more fast Dec 19 07:46:10 i'm wondering about something that is appropriate for desktop as well though Dec 19 07:47:29 is etk complex in comparison to gtk or qt ? Dec 19 07:48:14 what app are you making? Dec 19 07:49:29 i have a list of several i'd like to write, but none in particular atm Dec 19 07:50:09 i am teaching myself python partially in hopes of being able to write apps for the OM Dec 19 07:53:18 well Dec 19 07:53:37 asking that is like asking "i'm going to build somethng - what screwdriver should i use?" Dec 19 07:53:38 :) Dec 19 07:53:50 you really should have an idea what before you go select your tools Dec 19 07:54:15 thats true, i have a list but idk where it is atm :) Dec 19 07:58:22 it's not something i'll need to be able to use right away, i'm just asking because i started playing with pyQT then later found out it's not fully gpl'd Dec 19 08:21:00 khaije1: well it depends what u want Dec 19 08:21:05 pygtk wqill work everywhere Dec 19 08:21:14 u can try pyefl (includes etk) Dec 19 08:21:17 not sure what else Dec 19 08:21:53 o i didnt know there was a pyefl... Dec 19 08:22:04 well it gcovers etk, evas, edj etc. Dec 19 08:22:06 edje Dec 19 08:22:26 i got the impression that efl is sort of the 'favored' toolkit for OM, is that accurate? Dec 19 08:22:37 i have no comment Dec 19 08:22:39 :) Dec 19 08:22:42 i'm biased Dec 19 08:22:43 :) Dec 19 08:23:05 i have to admit i'm not sure what some of that stuff is 'evas, edj, etc' Dec 19 08:24:06 freaky mojo Dec 19 08:25:09 hah if i built my own gui toolkit i wouldn't even be asking :) Dec 19 09:31:19 is there a relationship between enlightenment and fltk? Dec 19 09:34:30 good morning Dec 19 09:34:48 khaije1: not afaict Dec 19 09:39:28 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r6d7a6e3df166 10/docs/ogsmd/freescale_neptune/modem: freescale neptune: add new quirk in handling number types Dec 19 09:39:29 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rd0ce96e0b1eb 10/framework/subsystems/ousaged/ (generic.py lowlevel.py): ousaged: check if we woke up due to battery low; trigger emergency shutdown if so Dec 19 09:39:29 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r2965b931f469 10/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Dec 19 09:39:29 freesmartphone.org: ousaged: Check resume reason and launch emergency shutdown, if we Dec 19 09:39:31 freesmartphone.org: woke up due to low battery. NOTE: This is only supported on Openmoko Dec 19 09:39:33 freesmartphone.org: devices now. As there is no standard infrastructure for that in the Dec 19 09:39:35 freesmartphone.org: kernel, we have to deal with device-specific solutions in lowlevel.py Dec 19 09:42:16 * f3ew sighs Dec 19 09:42:23 I just updated my freerunner Dec 19 09:42:33 and now it appears to suspend itself Dec 19 09:42:40 OH NOES! Dec 19 09:43:17 heh Dec 19 09:43:25 * f3ew resets battery Dec 19 09:47:53 f3ew: intelligent machines? next stop... SKYNET!!!! Dec 19 09:48:38 any OM programmers in chan atm? i'm wondering what the gui toolkits of choice are? Dec 19 09:49:02 so far i know efl, and gtk, is it mainly those two? Dec 19 09:49:18 Suspend is in unknown status Dec 19 09:51:13 there's efl, gtk and qt included in all the images (except qte/qtopia, which is just qt) Dec 19 09:51:28 in theory you could compile any other toolkit you wanted for it Dec 19 09:56:39 efl is often used because prebuilt widgets are designed for use with keyboard/mouse, and do not always work with with a touchscreen Dec 19 09:57:46 custom widgets are possible in qt, gtk, but efl doesn't emphasise its widget library nearly as much, and it's gui builder works on a markup language that allows you to create scalable interfaces Dec 19 09:58:03 (it's also faster and less resource intensive) Dec 19 09:58:15 there's your plug raster :P Dec 19 10:12:18 ok, good perspective, thanks ieatlint, thats exactly the sortof thing i was wondering about Dec 19 10:13:05 do you know where i might find the pyEFL raster mentioned earlier? google just kicked me in the nuts Dec 19 10:13:39 yeah, efl, like all toolkits, has a little bit of a learning curve... and sadly, efl's docs are all over the place... sometimes referencing deprecated things, or not including new things Dec 19 10:16:54 thats too bad... btw what version are ppl using w/ current devel? Dec 19 10:17:12 it's sometimes unclear to me the maturity of each version Dec 19 10:19:08 heh, impressively crazy to find much on the python bindings... Dec 19 10:19:47 for hardware interaction with the device, you likely want to look at FSO Dec 19 10:21:15 http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/browser/trunk/BINDINGS/python for the bindings, and http://staff.get-e.org/~barbieri/python-efl-api/ contains an auto-generated doc of them Dec 19 10:21:33 it looks at first glance there is some docs re: python and efl at the maemo project as well Dec 19 10:21:35 thanks Dec 19 10:21:49 it's not going to be too user friendly i'm afraid... it's rather simple, but terribly documented :P Dec 19 10:22:14 if you dig out fso's zhone, it Dec 19 10:22:20 's python efl Dec 19 10:22:26 and might give you some basic examples Dec 19 10:22:37 How do i start a gui application from terminal in SHR? Dec 19 10:25:01 I mean, when i'm connected via ssh. Now i get a gtk warning: cannot open display Dec 19 10:25:30 try running this before it: export DISPLAY=":0.0" Dec 19 10:26:31 thx ieatlint, do you know of any other python efl apps? (as an example i'd prefer to start a step simpler) Dec 19 10:27:37 uhm... i'm afraid i don't... you might be able to use google to find something, or if raster wanders around again, he might now Dec 19 10:31:56 you mentioned that efl scales well, i assume you mean visually and resource-wise? Dec 19 10:32:37 i've not tried resource wise, i meant visually Dec 19 10:33:11 in the wikipedia article it says efl is raster rather than vector based, isnt that a general detriment? Dec 19 10:33:58 i don't know enough to answer that question, hehe Dec 19 10:38:17 i don't either, obviously. it just caught my eye because i hear so much emphasis placed on vector based this and vector based that :-) Dec 19 10:52:11 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * r5b039793d0bd 10/framework/subsystems/otimed/otimed.py: otimed: allow time travel to the past Dec 19 10:55:50 ieatlint: is there a enlightenment chan, or a better place to ask about these things? Dec 19 10:58:35 nm nm it forwarded me to #e Dec 19 11:26:29 The om2008.12 promised paroli, and im still winding up with that ugly qt interface of a dialer:/ It lacks a terminal and I can't ssh to it, good going. Dec 19 11:28:48 any idea when the echo-bug is expected to be solved? Dec 19 11:30:03 jonkristian: you can install a terminal can't you? Dec 19 11:31:41 henk: not if i can't connect the phone i can't Dec 19 11:32:06 jonkristian: try ssh again after a reboot. Dec 19 11:32:37 jonkristian: does only ssh not work or don't you get a connection on usb0? Dec 19 11:33:14 pressing the power was not a good idea Dec 19 11:33:31 suspended and not waking up again? Dec 19 11:33:40 looks like it Dec 19 11:36:08 ssh works now Dec 19 11:36:23 after rebooting Dec 19 11:39:49 Hi, how can I set the clock in the latest SHR distro? Thanks Dec 19 11:48:22 tbk: Have you tried date? Dec 19 11:48:37 yes but what's the format SHR is using? Dec 19 11:48:46 taht's my problem right now! Dec 19 11:49:34 I set mine with this format: date -s MMDDhhmm Dec 19 11:50:29 For me it works on testing. Have not tried unstable yet Dec 19 11:56:26 it willwork with unstable too Dec 19 11:56:26 yesp it did work! Thanks! I was doing the same but used YYYYMMDDhhmm and was getting an error! Dec 19 11:56:29 don't forget Dec 19 11:56:37 hwclock --systohc Dec 19 11:57:06 yes I did that Dec 19 11:57:08 Thanks Dec 19 12:02:14 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r7a2ce6ce5c44 10/src/zhone: try unlocking the screen on incoming calls Dec 19 12:05:24 in SHR can't I set the 'Profile' to 'vibration'? Dec 19 12:50:51 !seen morphis Dec 19 12:50:52 morphis (n=morphis@p5489AD0E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) was last seen quitting from #openmoko 2 days, 15 hours, 10 minutes ago stating (Remote closed the connection). Dec 19 12:51:16 good boy cdbot2 Dec 19 14:04:52 hello Dec 19 14:05:05 where can i find the shr feeds? is need a packages from there Dec 19 14:06:50 namly i search for libgthread-2.0-0 Dec 19 14:07:03 namely Dec 19 14:07:27 white_gecko, http://rafb.net/p/Sj3KG048.html Dec 19 14:08:28 ah thankyou Dec 19 14:09:44 wonderfull i have it Dec 19 14:21:33 Hi all! Is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GSM/Flashing the most up-to-date tutorial, or is there any "better" way to update the firmware? Dec 19 14:27:29 emil_s: you have problematic 3g sim? Dec 19 14:27:52 lindi-: Yepp (#666) Dec 19 15:10:31 I have SHR on my moko and when i start tangoGPS it says "no GPS found", when i lokk there is a process fso-gpsd running. Dec 19 15:10:31 do I have to do something special to get the gps running? or is just taking long time to get signal? Dec 19 15:12:17 just wait 30 minuits Dec 19 15:12:26 ok Dec 19 15:12:36 i have the same problem on latest Dec 19 15:13:00 might need to go outside Dec 19 15:13:17 can i somehow se that its working?, see some sort of signal? Dec 19 15:13:35 does fso-gpsd do some kind of processing which plain gpsd doesn't? Dec 19 15:13:50 with plain gpsd, "no GPS found" means "couldn't find gpsd" Dec 19 15:14:06 whereas if gpsd is there but no fix, you get zeroes everywhere Dec 19 15:14:26 being outside is *essential* to getting a fix (at the very least, it needs to be up against a window) Dec 19 15:15:16 janrikard: run it from a shell to see its output? Dec 19 15:16:08 fso-gpsd ? Dec 19 15:16:08 I try Dec 19 15:16:45 i really meant tangogps Dec 19 15:16:55 then you can see if it's complaining about not being able to connect to gpsd Dec 19 15:18:27 I try that Dec 19 15:21:16 Weiss: the last thing that comes up is "reconnecting to gpsd" and in tangoGPS it say "no GPS found" Dec 19 15:27:11 Weiss: it could be problem in my image, i found a conversation on the maillist about same error Dec 19 15:47:39 Anyone think taking my freerunner with me sledding is a particularly bad idea? :p Dec 19 15:47:58 * ezekiel-v3 does Dec 19 15:48:32 Dave: use the GPS to see how fast you go Dec 19 15:48:46 too precious. besides - an iPhone would probably slide down snow/ice better than the delightfully-grippy freerunner Dec 19 15:55:47 dave has spares Dec 19 15:56:02 yep Dec 19 15:56:08 Dave: film the result Dec 19 15:56:21 and scap the display Dec 19 15:56:28 Weiss, sounds dangerous Dec 19 15:56:48 Weiss, problem is, I'd have to adapt my bike mount for the sled Dec 19 15:56:58 and even that could never be that secure Dec 19 15:57:06 I could always just have it in my pocket, but still... Dec 19 15:57:17 myself AND the sled tend to fly off in different directions... :P Dec 19 15:57:27 bumble, I'll try Dec 19 15:57:36 lets zoom in on dave an see him slide Dec 19 15:57:41 hahaa Dec 19 15:57:59 haha I'll put little skis on my freerunner and push it down a hill and film that :P Dec 19 15:58:27 haha Dec 19 15:58:57 dont do it Dave Dec 19 15:59:24 It's a trap? Dec 19 15:59:36 man, it'll only be a $350 loss? Dec 19 15:59:36 update set to 1 second Dec 19 15:59:44 so long as I don't break any bones... Dec 19 15:59:48 ;D Dec 19 15:59:50 yup Dec 19 16:00:00 but the footage will be well worth it, right? :P Dec 19 16:00:01 aha Dec 19 16:00:08 freerunner crashes into dave Dec 19 16:00:14 I can see it now... "Open source phone takes flight" Dec 19 16:00:16 * Dave giggles Dec 19 16:00:25 haha Dec 19 16:00:30 linuxxr, that'll probably be what causes me the greater bodily injury :p Dec 19 16:00:36 bumble, yeah, literally :P Dec 19 16:00:55 or you could put little skis on the neo robot: http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=SG3fAHFNs2c Dec 19 16:01:09 :O Dec 19 16:01:15 I read about that on the ml Dec 19 16:01:51 Dave: and beware of lazy lulu - she might apply this idea Dec 19 16:02:05 :o Dec 19 16:02:19 "Flying Phone kills local Dave" Dec 19 16:02:28 Not I! Dec 19 16:06:59 What is the best way to reduce the echo when calling today? Installing QT-Extended, or is there any solution for Om2008.12? Dec 19 16:07:19 BT headset, or wired headset Dec 19 16:10:20 SpeedEvil: Ah, so there isn't any good (software) solution yet? Dec 19 16:10:49 The echo is a physical echo as far as I understand it. Dec 19 16:11:01 it's feedback - mechanical - between the speaker and mic Dec 19 16:11:25 I think turning down the mic or speaker, and either pressing it against your ear harder, or speaking louder will work Dec 19 16:12:50 ok, but i read something about some "echo-pach" some month ago? Dec 19 16:13:28 Maybe not perfectly working, but probably better than nothing Dec 19 16:15:02 Btw, is there any problems with BT-headsets, or does any generic headset just work? Dec 19 16:16:01 A generic one should work if any do. Dec 19 16:16:07 However, I'm unsure. Dec 19 16:16:12 (if any work) Dec 19 16:16:21 it'll vary with software stack I imagine. Dec 19 16:17:18 okok, google may know. ;) Thanks! Dec 19 16:23:11 burrrp Dec 19 16:26:00 :o Dec 19 16:26:10 Joerg, did you eat a freerunner? :P Dec 19 16:27:31 Dave: swallowed half a fab today Dec 19 16:28:32 now i'll try to get thoroughly soaked Dec 19 16:29:05 in tpe (know how to do that in europe) Dec 19 16:32:33 quick poll: how many of the inclined listeners are able to tell me, how long it takes to charhe a 100uF via 2k2? Dec 19 16:33:03 first 3 with correct answer win a beer Dec 19 16:33:21 :D Dec 19 16:33:35 *charGe Dec 19 16:33:54 Joerg, you didn't have to sit through another engineering ethics and patent/copyright seminar Dec 19 16:34:09 for which I am being tested on at the end Dec 19 16:34:25 haha it's funny because OM could learn a thing or two from it :p Dec 19 16:34:44 bzzzzzz, wrong answer Dec 19 16:34:57 :-) Dec 19 16:36:21 DocScrutinizer2: Insufficient information :P Dec 19 16:36:35 i'm ok with one tau Dec 19 16:37:20 though usual rule of thumb is 99% Dec 19 16:37:49 The mark of a true engineer: rules of thumb! Dec 19 16:38:31 yeah, as we can't deal with infinity ;ßl Dec 19 16:38:40 err ;-) Dec 19 16:39:12 I'm listenig Dec 19 16:39:24 wikipedia is your friend Dec 19 16:39:33 no beer? Dec 19 16:39:48 I'll make that e beer Dec 19 16:39:54 3 Dec 19 16:40:13 That'd be cheating... and I confess that it would take me a while to try to remember my old classwork. Dec 19 16:41:07 thats moot when fab tells U "u built shit" Dec 19 16:41:44 Well, true -- then it gets into the utterly practical realm once again. Dec 19 16:42:00 everything allowed. result all that counts Dec 19 16:42:05 c'mon Dec 19 16:42:27 4 beer Dec 19 16:43:02 from now on its down to 3 again Dec 19 16:43:22 farming out your homework Doc? Dec 19 16:43:42 nah, thats a poll Dec 19 16:43:43 ooo yea your the teacher Dec 19 16:43:50 sorry Dec 19 16:43:52 I know the answer Dec 19 16:44:20 needed to know today Dec 19 16:44:57 "mic doesnt work for 18sec" Dec 19 16:45:17 U startbto sweat Dec 19 16:46:06 in order to stop hunderds of om programmers from fumbling through there notes at the same time ,, tell us Doc Dec 19 16:46:28 nope, wont Dec 19 16:46:47 there's still 9 beers to claim Dec 19 16:47:06 an the winner is? Dec 19 16:47:10 Doc Dec 19 16:47:38 8'm already paid for knowing this Dec 19 16:48:32 another hint: wikipedia "R-C lowpass, charge" Dec 19 16:49:59 ok, maybe I expect too much of my contemporary similar liveforms Dec 19 16:50:59 gawd, it's really that hard??? Dec 19 16:52:30 DocScrutinizer: 42 Dec 19 16:53:04 that's the bottle of ABSOLUT :ßl Dec 19 16:53:09 :-) Dec 19 16:53:15 ;p Dec 19 16:53:30 pick it up at 25C3 Dec 19 16:54:12 new ideas are ebtter tha FUD anyway Dec 19 16:55:56 so sorry, the answer is: ¥=R*C, 99% = 5¥" Dec 19 16:56:41 and now we continue our program with "room18, the big soak" Dec 19 16:56:53 poll closed Dec 19 17:00:20 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/RC-Glied#Ladevorgang Dec 19 17:02:21 no free beer today:) Dec 19 17:08:05 [2008-12-20 00:33:55] Joerg, you didn't have to sit through another engineering ethics and patent/copyright seminar Dec 19 17:08:17 Dave: my day wasn't any easier Dec 19 17:11:47 Anyone here have 2008.12 booting off of an SD card? Dec 19 17:12:07 hai Dec 19 17:12:12 new wireless-drivers, when? Dec 19 17:12:52 well Dec 19 17:13:08 you know, stable ones Dec 19 17:13:09 i've been using qtextended since yesterday Dec 19 17:13:23 I'm having an echo problem Dec 19 17:13:33 http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1267 Dec 19 17:13:42 that issue talks about a patch to fix it Dec 19 17:13:56 is that not in the latest images or does it just not work? Dec 19 17:14:38 i also notice the battery indicator in qtextended lies Dec 19 17:15:50 orzo: google for domain:openmoko.org AT%N Dec 19 17:16:27 do you mean site: ? Dec 19 17:16:43 and i think the % symbol is confusing google Dec 19 17:16:48 sorry, yeah, prolly Dec 19 17:17:01 hmm, put it in "" Dec 19 17:17:26 quotes didnt really help Dec 19 17:17:29 there's a recently discovered ATcmd to stop echo Dec 19 17:17:50 yes Dec 19 17:18:02 and that's refered to on the ticket i posted Dec 19 17:18:22 recently = 3 months ago according to that ticket Dec 19 17:18:25 ok, cya fellas, enjoy my last night in TPE now Dec 19 17:18:30 well Dec 19 17:18:31 it doesnt work Dec 19 17:18:38 unless i do not have the patch Dec 19 17:18:39 Wave. Dec 19 17:19:05 SpeedEvil: ;) Dec 19 17:19:26 i'm using the image for gta01 on http://qtextended.org/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=6 Dec 19 17:19:35 would the patch not be there? Dec 19 17:19:42 in that build Dec 19 17:20:17 damn, i guess my build is from october 31 Dec 19 17:20:44 orzo: this command isn't persistent AFAIK. Need to issue it for every new call Dec 19 17:21:32 DocScrutinizer: well, i thought a patch was done up to take care of it all Dec 19 17:21:42 and i hoped the patch was in my phone already Dec 19 17:21:46 dunno Dec 19 17:22:03 maybe logs will tellya Dec 19 17:22:36 * DocScrutinizer has no idea about recent SW-images Dec 19 17:22:48 bye Dec 19 17:22:51 bye Dec 19 17:23:52 bye Dec 19 17:24:33 ooo yea nice update Dec 19 17:24:35 is that patch to the kernel? Dec 19 17:24:43 or to some user space program i can just upgrade? Dec 19 17:25:26 devices/ficgta01/src/plugins/phonevendors/ficgta01/vendor_ficgta01.cpp Dec 19 17:25:46 what binary is that put in? Dec 19 17:25:51 heh Dec 19 17:28:59 wtf, FIC?? Dec 19 17:29:16 ok, prolly historical Dec 19 17:29:24 hi, how does one add an application icon on the startup page of Om2008.9? Dec 19 17:29:37 is the 2008.12 uboot an update? Dec 19 17:30:08 or is it the same as 2008.9? Dec 19 17:31:47 thanks guys ,,i was just sitting here thinking wow a road trip tomorrow an gps is not working on the latest shr an i need a new image an BAM there it is Dec 19 17:32:15 brian__, it's an update Dec 19 17:32:25 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Om_2008.12_Update Dec 19 17:32:33 well its a full image isnt it? Dec 19 17:33:10 oh, you meant "can I get it with opkg?"? Dec 19 17:33:17 no Dec 19 17:33:31 i can dl a jffs2 Dec 19 17:33:42 yes, there's one there Dec 19 17:34:13 an its half installed:) Dec 19 17:34:37 I'm trying to put it on my SD card, but without much success. Dec 19 17:34:51 keeps hanging after complaining that it can't find a sound card. Dec 19 17:58:42 openmoko: 03odinshorse 07stable * ra9a48b2b82fd 10/fs/ext2/ext2fs.c: Modified patch originates from Andy Green Dec 19 17:58:42 openmoko: 03odinshorse 07stable * rcc0a665d938f 10/fs/ext2/ext2fs.c: Modified patch originates from Andy Green Dec 19 18:22:28 thanks OM Dec 19 18:38:24 liquid war works Dec 19 18:40:19 it might be a crappy soldering job on the gps antenea idk Dec 19 18:40:36 it seems to work sometimes Dec 19 18:41:04 will have to check out Docs work:) Dec 19 18:46:21 my red light comes on while charging Dec 19 18:46:54 considering putting my sim in Dec 19 18:47:28 unplugged the wall charger an it blacked out Dec 19 18:48:35 wont come back on now Dec 19 18:49:25 12 sec power button wont kill it Dec 19 18:49:38 12 sec power wont start it Dec 19 18:50:24 tapping screen does nadda Dec 19 18:55:00 R&R battery Dec 19 18:59:32 hi all Dec 19 18:59:47 i have a question about OM2008.12 Dec 19 19:00:10 does someone could help me? Dec 19 19:00:30 what is it Dec 19 19:01:24 ok Dec 19 19:01:33 i proly cant help anyways Dec 19 19:01:50 is normal that when the phone is in suspend mode and pluged into charger Dec 19 19:02:00 it doesn't charge battery? Dec 19 19:02:04 it goes blank?? Dec 19 19:02:07 oo Dec 19 19:02:10 the red led is off.. Dec 19 19:02:17 yes it goes blank Dec 19 19:02:19 in suspend mode Dec 19 19:02:40 the red led is off and i cant understand if it is charging or not Dec 19 19:02:57 its a known bug an no its not normal Dec 19 19:03:14 ah ok...so i have to off the suspend mode Dec 19 19:03:29 and leave the screen on Dec 19 19:03:42 it's not a good thing Dec 19 19:04:08 another question... Dec 19 19:04:15 how can i change ringtone? Dec 19 19:04:32 no sorry Dec 19 19:04:35 :) Dec 19 19:04:48 i have installed qtopia-light-and-power Dec 19 19:04:58 but it doesn't manager power Dec 19 19:05:12 is there a way to make it? Dec 19 19:06:36 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r938f46ed21e0 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/ti_calypso/channel.py: ogsmd: [TI CALYPSO] disable %CGEV unsolicited response codes Dec 19 19:06:36 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r54deb9ed8776 10/framework/ (services.py subsystems/ogsmd/modems/abstract/pdp.py): add preliminary netlink message dispatcher Dec 19 19:07:31 ehi Dec 19 19:14:11 ola Dec 19 19:14:12 ouu Dec 19 19:32:33 woooowww Dec 19 19:32:40 08.12 starts up *fast* Dec 19 19:35:02 i get a bad echo Dec 19 19:35:19 rather who calls me does Dec 19 19:37:04 might be just close proximity Dec 19 20:04:12 slaxxer: have you been paying attention at all?? :P Dec 19 20:04:26 that's the long-known, impossible-to-fix echo bug. Dec 19 20:19:05 mwester: is the echo on OM2008.12 an impossible-to.fix bug?? Dec 19 20:20:45 The echo is a mechanical hardware problem. It can be lessened to some degree by careful suppression parameters sent to the GSM; no current distros have ideal settings for that since it seems to vary depending on situation. Over time, a standard set of GSM parameters will likely emerge that will do the best that can be done in software. Dec 19 20:21:16 If you use a headset (wired or bluetooth), the echo vanishes. Bluetooth also avoids the GSM buzz problem. Dec 19 20:21:57 So my conclusion is that the quickest way to fix the audio issues for *any* distro is to get bluetooth headsets working... Dec 19 20:22:52 or get another rphone Dec 19 20:24:34 that's bad Dec 19 20:24:38 right Dec 19 20:24:39 i love my freerunner Dec 19 20:24:41 throw it away Dec 19 20:25:22 om fr is not just ready to be just a phone Dec 19 20:25:22 as my experience SHR has the best audio performance Dec 19 20:26:06 OM2008.12 doesn't support MP3, is it right? Dec 19 20:26:12 i can't play mp3 Dec 19 20:26:31 No "official" distro supports MP3 due to patent trolls Dec 19 20:26:44 can i use an ogg file as ringtone and messages? Dec 19 20:30:32 no answers? Dec 19 20:31:48 mwester i've used your latest kernel in qtextended 4.4.2 Dec 19 20:31:48 ledzgio, yes u can Dec 19 20:32:13 is still there the duplicated messages bug? Dec 19 20:32:23 is there some way to fix it? Dec 19 20:32:51 i know ivvm..i'm very excited with my neo that i want to learn a lot Dec 19 20:32:54 ;) Dec 19 20:33:10 i'm looking for a stable and usable distro Dec 19 20:33:26 qtextended is a good compromise but it suffers the sms bug Dec 19 20:34:06 shr does not suffer from that but its not as stable as the title says Dec 19 20:34:22 not yet Dec 19 20:34:37 it's misses a decent sms and calls manager Dec 19 20:34:43 yes Dec 19 20:34:56 but it is quite stable in the other things Dec 19 20:35:01 IVVM. Dec 19 20:35:05 (sorry for my poor english) Dec 19 20:35:07 :) Dec 19 20:35:34 now i'm using OM2008.12 and its good Dec 19 20:35:41 but not perfect yet Dec 19 20:43:03 ok bye bye guys Dec 19 20:43:36 here is the time to go out and have fun Dec 19 20:43:38 ;) Dec 19 20:54:10 hello Dec 19 20:54:19 i see a lot of qtopia-phone-x11-* packages Dec 19 20:54:21 in the repo Dec 19 20:54:27 i'm running qtextended Dec 19 20:54:36 but i dont see those in opkg list_installed output Dec 19 20:54:55 and i didnt think qtopia used x11 Dec 19 20:55:08 what are those packages? should i install them? Dec 19 21:10:38 does anyone know if zhone has a missed calls/recent calls section? I cant seem to find one but that doesnt mean its not there... Dec 19 21:26:12 so it seems you cant just apt-get install e17 in debian....there are dependancy issues with the versions of libecore and libevas that are in the repo Dec 19 21:26:20 has anyone else noticed this? Dec 19 21:27:24 also...does anyone know if its possible to get panel applications (namely openmoko-panel-plugin) to appear in the top bar in enlightenment? (on debian) Dec 19 21:40:12 it should Dec 19 21:40:25 oops (was reading scrollback) Dec 19 22:02:59 IIRC, ogg vorbis files may be played back at any bitrate <= the encoding bitrate without the need for reencoding. Dec 19 22:03:23 anyone knows how to select the bitrate for playback? Dec 19 23:23:07 i have killed the keyboard Dec 20 00:41:57 mwester: Around? Dec 20 01:33:42 does anyone know which files ash sources? I want to make a file a la ~/.bashrc or ~/.aliases, but don't know what to name it Dec 20 01:39:53 I thought it was ~/.profile but that does not seem to work Dec 20 01:51:02 ahh... I just needed to restart the login shell:) Dec 20 01:55:57 bricode: around now... Dec 20 02:07:29 New accessory for OM. Dec 20 02:07:31 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mutb7KgA9NM Dec 20 02:20:18 SpeedEvil: is that a replacement vibrator? Dec 20 02:21:02 hehe Dec 20 02:21:29 It's a solution to the suspend issues, and will fix battery life completely. Dec 20 02:21:34 i'd definately feel that one in my pocket Dec 20 02:22:24 ! Dec 20 02:22:39 SpeedEvil, you solved the suspend and battery life issues? Dec 20 02:24:55 With the power of V12! Dec 20 02:25:18 rumour will spread =] Dec 20 02:25:30 we're saved at last Dec 20 02:26:57 V12? Dec 20 02:27:04 What's V12? Dec 20 02:27:10 see the youtube Dec 20 02:28:07 Which youtube? Dec 20 02:28:17 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mutb7KgA9NM Dec 20 02:28:18 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mutb7KgA9NM Dec 20 02:28:24 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mutb7KgA9NM Dec 20 02:28:34 oops Dec 20 02:28:44 nice Dec 20 02:34:23 OK, I installed 2008.12 just to give it a shot, and ahhhhh, it appears the usb0 interface is down on the FR, and there's no terminal or GUI network app. Dec 20 02:35:02 I mean, seriously... Did nobody notice this is a problem? :\ Dec 20 02:35:56 Digital_Pioneer: they had missing usb network in SHR for a few days also Dec 20 02:36:01 but they fixed it Dec 20 02:36:56 its not just reboot Dec 20 02:37:21 I guess usb0 is not brought up by default Dec 20 02:37:38 and ssh is deactivated on wifi Dec 20 02:37:46 And, uhh, why does it suspend after a period of inactivity? Shut down the screen, shut down peripherals like GPS and wifi, but don't shut down the phone... LOL Dec 20 02:37:50 yes isnt it beautiful Dec 20 02:38:14 do _not_ shut down GPS Dec 20 02:38:22 The CPU uses the most power of any device on the phone. Dec 20 02:38:31 And it does not clock down at the moment. Dec 20 02:38:36 what was operating the valves on that v12? Dec 20 02:38:36 SpeedEvil: Yes, but it's a brick while the CPU is not running. :P Dec 20 02:38:40 so it uses a truly hideous amount of power. Dec 20 02:39:05 linuxxr: pushrods from a camshaft Dec 20 02:39:22 micro lifters? Dec 20 02:39:26 Why would you want the CPU running with the phone idle? Dec 20 02:39:38 linuxxr: looked like Dec 20 02:39:43 SpeedEvil: It's a phone... People call it. :P Dec 20 02:40:00 Digital_Pioneer: the GSM part generates and interrupt, which wakes the phone Dec 20 02:40:23 * Digital_Pioneer raises an eyebrow. Dec 20 02:40:32 (in principle) Dec 20 02:40:35 Without the CPU running? Dec 20 02:40:37 yes Dec 20 02:40:52 the GSM chip is a quad core Dec 20 02:40:59 The GSM part generates an interrupt to the CPU, which makes the phone wake Dec 20 02:41:02 quatrox: dual core Dec 20 02:41:05 And I always assumed a computer needed the CPU running to do anything... Dec 20 02:41:07 ohh Dec 20 02:41:28 need a computer without a processor Dec 20 02:41:33 Digital_Pioneer: not really. It needs a CPU running. Or configured to respond to external devices. Dec 20 02:41:39 Digital_Pioneer: not really. It needs a CPU running. Or configured to respond to external devices while stopped. Dec 20 02:42:06 Huh. Dec 20 02:42:12 Digital_Pioneer: think of it as many computers Dec 20 02:42:24 one can wake up the other Dec 20 02:42:30 So, can it be configured to wake up on screen touch? Dec 20 02:42:36 yes Dec 20 02:42:52 In principle, you shouldn't notice the CPU has stopped. Dec 20 02:43:04 the gsm chip is does not fetch input from the touch screen Dec 20 02:43:07 Of course, if you do that, you'd want it to shut down after just a few seconds if not used. Dec 20 02:43:34 Pretty much. Dec 20 02:43:43 well Dec 20 02:43:48 As long as nothing is talking to something outside, or reading GPS or mic, or ... Dec 20 02:44:04 So (getting a bit crazy here) could you make it only wake up if a certain pattern is traced on the screen? :P Dec 20 02:44:09 No. Dec 20 02:44:16 At least not with the current design. Dec 20 02:44:17 Aww, too bad. Dec 20 02:44:30 Any touch will wake unfortunately. (if a touch will at all) Dec 20 02:44:47 Oh well, you can only squeeze so much awesomeness into something that small... :P Dec 20 02:45:00 So has anyone here tried ReMoko? is it any good yet? Dec 20 02:45:08 Digital_Pioneer: the touch screen is not connected to the GSM chip, so the chip has no idea what you do to the touch screen Dec 20 02:45:19 There was a proposed design that *could* have done that, thoiugh. But the Om powers-that-be feared it, and nixed the idea. Dec 20 02:45:20 SpeedEvil: Can I enable that without doing (much) coding? Dec 20 02:45:31 quatrox: I don't need it to. :) Dec 20 02:45:53 Digital_Pioneer: what? Dec 20 02:46:09 SpeedEvil: Wake on touch instead of pwr button. Dec 20 02:46:25 It can already do wake on touch. Dec 20 02:46:59 How do I enable that? Dec 20 02:47:18 I have no idea. Dec 20 02:47:34 There are several distributions, and I don't know which ones support which features. Dec 20 02:47:36 Heheh Dec 20 02:47:45 I've been more looking at the hardware capabilities side. Dec 20 02:48:12 SpeedEvil: did the screen locker disappear totally in advantage for suspend? Dec 20 02:48:24 Don't know. Dec 20 02:48:38 hmm Dec 20 02:48:53 The CPU wakes to a touch - any touch - on the screen. Dec 20 02:49:11 btw, freerunner works good with ogg... no lagging even when doing other things:) Dec 20 02:49:12 It then has to decide if that touch means it should do more than go back to sleep immediately. Dec 20 02:49:18 SpeedEvil: Not for me in 2008.12... Dec 20 02:49:21 s/wakes/can be configured to wake/ Dec 20 02:49:31 Ahh. :) Dec 20 02:50:34 mwester: would it be possible to process audio in the GSM chip? Dec 20 02:50:48 Quadduc: you can in principle do anything in the GSM chip Dec 20 02:50:51 quatrox: Dec 20 02:50:54 quatrox: but Dec 20 02:51:05 little space there, yes Dec 20 02:51:09 quatrox: there is firmware provided by TI that just implements a serial GSM modem. Dec 20 02:51:23 quatrox: there is probably free space, but you'd need to do a _LOT_ of coding. Dec 20 02:51:24 quatrox: the GSM already has a very good audio processor, and lots of sophisticated software to do interesting things -- but it's all closed. Dec 20 02:51:53 I note that the hardware specs have been leaked, so it's in principle possible to clean-sheet develop a GSM codec. Dec 20 02:52:09 I'd put it at a few dozen man-years of effort, at a guess. Dec 20 02:52:17 I got two GTA02, and thought of trashing the GSM firmware in one of them Dec 20 02:52:25 and use the chip for other things Dec 20 02:52:41 have you seen the link to the NDA datasheet? Dec 20 02:52:49 yes Dec 20 02:53:31 but didn't have time to read the pdf's yet Dec 20 02:54:47 What is gta02v5_and_up-u-boot.bin? Heheh Dec 20 02:55:05 it is for Freerunners Dec 20 02:55:17 I know, what is it? :P Dec 20 02:55:46 the kernel Dec 20 02:56:16 211k kernel? Dec 20 02:56:59 sorry Dec 20 02:57:02 Ohhh, it's probably the bootloader. Dec 20 02:57:09 I mixed with uImage Dec 20 02:57:35 So... If that's the bootloader, what is gta02v5-lowlevel.bin? :P Dec 20 02:58:42 I do not think you need lowlevel.bin Dec 20 02:59:18 but it sounds like it could be firmware Dec 20 02:59:38 not sure what it is for Dec 20 02:59:50 So... Is there no way to get into this thing? It's not bringing up usb0, it has no obvious terminal, and no apparent networking GUI. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Dec 20 02:59:57 2008