**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Dec 22 02:59:56 2008 Dec 22 03:14:33 Are there any good calculators that will run on the FR? Dec 22 03:15:12 I got no use for that thing that came preinstalled. A calculator must be at least scientific. :P Dec 22 03:29:46 look under applications Dec 22 03:30:46 the people at fdom going to do something with 2008.12 ? Dec 22 04:08:26 wow the "flashing the nor" page is either very new or it just sucks i dont know which Dec 22 04:16:11 System reports /dev/dsp as busy, but fuser and lsof don't see it as open. What's the problem here? Dec 22 04:17:10 flashing the nor? Dec 22 04:18:47 Why would you flash the NOR?? Dec 22 04:26:10 OK, I just rebooted the freaking thing and /dev/dsp is STILL in use! What the heck, guys? Dec 22 04:29:19 Might have found it. Dec 22 04:32:16 Yup, it's the TTS app I installed. Didn't work anyways. Dec 22 04:35:28 hi guyz Dec 22 04:36:09 i was just saying the wiki needs work Dec 22 04:37:26 hey my cellphone just broke today Dec 22 04:37:58 i was wondering if openmoko was stable enough to be used like a cellphone Dec 22 04:38:16 in the directions there are links that go nowhere so if these instructions are incorrect all of it needs to be edited an not just the links bronen Dec 22 04:38:32 yes it is Dec 22 04:38:56 unless u complain alot then in your case it isnt Dec 22 04:39:12 if i can receive and call people Dec 22 04:39:18 yup Dec 22 04:39:19 or receive and send text message Dec 22 04:39:26 well maybe Dec 22 04:39:31 i ccant sms Dec 22 04:40:12 i used 2008.12 an it needs some attention Dec 22 04:40:20 i see Dec 22 04:40:59 i had debian working great on sdcard but that really messes up your storage card for now Dec 22 04:41:11 i see Dec 22 04:41:22 shr i use every day with minor problems Dec 22 04:41:44 any idea how i can know if my gsm card will work? Dec 22 04:42:06 check the wiki Dec 22 04:42:20 sim card incompat. Dec 22 04:43:15 i use fido so i guess it will work Dec 22 04:43:26 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_compatible_cellphone_providers Dec 22 04:43:46 i guess u know qtopia works Dec 22 04:43:53 u playin me Dec 22 04:44:03 ha Dec 22 04:44:28 my brain is untested so beware Dec 22 04:45:13 but cool, if i can force my parents to help me pay a openmoko it will be awesome Dec 22 04:45:46 i thought for a moment u had a 1973 Dec 22 04:47:45 no, i had a old erricson z520a Dec 22 04:48:15 but i always wanted a openmoko just that i couldnt spend money on a phone while i had a working one Dec 22 04:48:24 sybesis: The Freerunner is truly awesome. :) Dec 22 04:48:44 Got mine for $250 on eBay... Still pretty steep, but better than new. Dec 22 04:49:08 i'll buy mine from Koolu Dec 22 04:49:19 i'm not trusting ebay much Dec 22 04:49:33 http://shop.koolu.com/ Dec 22 04:49:37 Heheh, fair enough. I don't care for it much either, but it was less than $300... Dec 22 04:49:59 heh Dec 22 04:50:05 Huh. Koolu is only $300 now, ehh? Dec 22 04:50:08 does sms works for you Dec 22 04:50:12 Was $400 before. Dec 22 04:50:20 I haven't gotten my SIM card yet. :P Dec 22 04:50:25 :o Dec 22 04:50:27 And when I do, it won't have text. Dec 22 04:50:30 Just calling. Dec 22 04:50:44 get a free freerunner at koolu Dec 22 04:50:55 hopefully text will come soon? Dec 22 04:51:12 I would love texting, but after buying the FR, I'm cheap. :P Dec 22 04:51:14 any idea if people got them to work or partially work Dec 22 04:51:19 maybe thats my problem Dec 22 04:51:26 i bet it is Dec 22 04:51:32 sybesis: Text should work on some distros. Dec 22 04:51:36 I've heard people can do it. Dec 22 04:52:17 if some people got it to work then....i'll probably get it to work too Dec 22 04:52:52 i recieve the headers of text but no message and the sender is an obscure character Dec 22 04:53:10 qtopia 4.3.2 is plenty good enough as a phone Dec 22 04:53:16 i see Dec 22 04:53:41 even tho it reliably crashes in some instances, and doesn't always go to sleep Dec 22 04:53:58 more than winCe? Dec 22 04:54:37 well seeing as i only used wince for about a month before my htc hermes decided to up and die, i don't know Dec 22 04:55:10 i have some friend who tell me that their phone crash at least 3 time a week or more Dec 22 04:55:36 well then it depends on what you do then Dec 22 04:56:02 normal use Dec 22 04:56:19 like their phone crashed for no real reason Dec 22 04:56:22 4.3.2 is the very latest or the one that was before QTX rooly? Dec 22 04:56:24 normal use constitutes quite alot for a FOSS smart phone Dec 22 04:56:37 i mean normal use for a phone Dec 22 04:56:43 Slaxxer, 4.3.2 is what asu's stack is telephony stack is based on Dec 22 04:56:57 4.3.2, 4.3.3, 4.4.0, 4.4.1, 4.4.2 Dec 22 04:57:09 qte is 4.4.x Dec 22 04:57:13 qtopia is 4.3.x Dec 22 04:57:34 in fact, i just dont want it to randomly crash while i dont use it Dec 22 04:57:47 sybesis, well...PIM is pretty reliable, as well as media playback Dec 22 04:58:05 simply put, telephony and file handling are pretty good Dec 22 04:58:08 but it wont crash the phone completely Dec 22 04:58:32 i mean my friend while it crashed he couldnt receive call Dec 22 04:58:43 and bluetooth works for the most part...doesn't seem to play well with windows tho Dec 22 04:58:50 lol Dec 22 04:59:33 but it wont crash randomly if i keep it in my pocket idle Dec 22 04:59:55 and by crash i mean having to reboot Dec 22 05:00:01 which would surprise me Dec 22 05:00:28 except for the odd failure to resume every couple weeks that i get, or the battery running dry, no Dec 22 05:00:38 idle, its quite fine Dec 22 05:00:41 sybesis: My SHR is very stable, unless I do something to break it like install weird software. Dec 22 05:00:52 (SHR == Stable Hybrid Release) Dec 22 05:00:54 thats it :) Dec 22 05:01:02 qte has working internet and gprs tho Dec 22 05:01:13 however it is unreliable in many more aspects Dec 22 05:01:14 Now, the programs, they may do their own thing.... Dec 22 05:01:20 But usually they work too. Dec 22 05:01:30 cool Dec 22 05:02:24 I love the genius of this thing, too... It can be suspended (shut down, CPU turned off), and it'll wake itself up if a call comes in, or if the alarm clock goes off.... Dec 22 05:02:28 but i guess that when a software crash...it doesnt crash the whole phone right? except if it mess the speaker/micro Dec 22 05:02:40 :o Dec 22 05:02:54 BTW, could one implement shake-to-wake with the current hardware? Dec 22 05:03:11 probably not, Digital_Pioneer. Dec 22 05:03:16 sybesis: Yeah, a software crash just displays a screen. Dec 22 05:03:17 not if its idle Dec 22 05:03:30 You hit OK and go on your merry way. :) Dec 22 05:03:39 thats fine then Dec 22 05:03:47 because wince just completely crash Dec 22 05:03:57 my friend need to remove the battery Dec 22 05:04:05 rooly: No separate subsystem for accelerometers, but there is one for alarm clock? :P Dec 22 05:04:08 and then restart the phone Dec 22 05:04:19 sybesis: win* sucks. That's a cardinal law. Dec 22 05:04:19 cmos? Dec 22 05:04:40 i admit alarm clock is weird Dec 22 05:04:41 Digital_Pioneer, the accell's are more of a polled device, the clock emits an interupt Dec 22 05:04:52 So how do you use accelerometers anyways? Programmatically? Dec 22 05:05:11 rooly my google must be broke qtopia-4.3.2-gta02-rootfs-release-08280107.jffs2 Dec 22 05:05:11 the software will get the value from a char device? Dec 22 05:05:12 rooly: I realize, but if the clock runs on the CPU, how can it generate the interrupt? Dec 22 05:05:19 It would seem that it does not. Dec 22 05:05:24 link me please? Dec 22 05:05:45 So where is the alarm clock running at when the phone is shut down? Dec 22 05:05:52 (suspended, that is) Dec 22 05:05:56 Digital_Pioneer, the clock runs by itself, separate from the cpu Dec 22 05:06:06 its like normal computer Dec 22 05:06:06 just like your computer when its unpowered Dec 22 05:06:17 exactly Dec 22 05:06:19 So the hardware clock has an alarm clock builtin to it? Dec 22 05:06:22 its the cmos if im right Dec 22 05:06:34 on phone apparently yes Dec 22 05:06:41 or there is a wakeup alarm Dec 22 05:06:42 OK. Dec 22 05:06:44 Digital_Pioneer, no. it has a programmable interupt Dec 22 05:06:46 like laptop Dec 22 05:07:02 quite different Dec 22 05:07:06 rooly: So why can't I write a program to use that interrupt for shake? Dec 22 05:07:19 Or is that specifically tied to the clock device? Dec 22 05:07:46 like i said, the clock has a programmable interupt Dec 22 05:07:52 OK. Dec 22 05:08:08 Well, it's an idea for GTA03 then. :) Dec 22 05:09:09 So back to my original question: how do I program for accelerometers? Dec 22 05:09:24 probably char device? Dec 22 05:09:53 Note that I'm not a _good_ programmer. I'm a complete amateur, still taking classes, but I can write simple scripts/programs. Dec 22 05:10:15 if its a char device you can open it like a file Dec 22 05:10:28 the only way you'll be able to have the accels wake up the phone is if A, its turned on and B, the kernel is constantly polling them internally Dec 22 05:10:39 sybesis: Well, I'm going to have to open /dev/input/event(2 or 3) but IDK what to read from them. Dec 22 05:10:56 Digital_Pioneer, there's a c-struct available on the wiki Dec 22 05:11:00 rooly: How could the kernel be polling them if the CPU is off? Dec 22 05:11:09 it wont be Dec 22 05:11:17 suspended and off are different Dec 22 05:13:39 I was under the impression that in suspension the CPU was shut down. Dec 22 05:13:46 no Dec 22 05:13:55 its just put into super-duper-low-power mode Dec 22 05:14:46 is there any good imap mail clients for openmoko? Dec 22 05:14:54 (i just purchased mine, getting it in a week ) Dec 22 05:15:21 frankS2, the qtopia mail/message client will handle imap easily Dec 22 05:16:21 rooly: ok, is it possible to make the phone check for new mails perodiacely? for example each hour? Dec 22 05:16:27 and tell me when i gets a new mail Dec 22 05:16:44 frankS2, its all in the options Dec 22 05:17:15 nice Dec 22 05:18:19 rooly so where is this 4.3.2 qtopia located at? Dec 22 05:18:55 you know if openmoko has any .xls readers? Dec 22 05:18:59 qtopia.net Dec 22 05:19:07 .xls, whas dat Dec 22 05:19:10 i get alot of spreadsheets through mail Dec 22 05:19:44 rooly: microsofts excel Dec 22 05:19:58 no, probably not, frankS2 Dec 22 05:20:09 however, i've heard stories of OO.o on the Fr Dec 22 05:20:24 Fr? Dec 22 05:20:38 Well, now I just have to figure out how to make the stupid accelerometers work when the phone is MOVING. Dec 22 05:20:38 FreeRunner Dec 22 05:20:59 the accells work plenty fine, Digital_Pioneer. Dec 22 05:21:08 rooly: Mine don't. :\ Dec 22 05:21:13 Some kernel bug I think. Dec 22 05:21:17 hexdumped 'em? Dec 22 05:21:20 They only send data when the phone is still. Dec 22 05:21:22 Yeah. Dec 22 05:21:50 When you move the phone, they stop sending info. There was a bug about it, but it got closed. I guess THEY got it fixed... :P Dec 22 05:22:06 updated your kernel lately? Dec 22 05:22:14 Yeah, it's SHR latest. Dec 22 05:22:56 Up-to-date enough to have the use-battery-after-finish-charging fix. Dec 22 05:26:01 OO.o on freerunner would be maaaaaaaaaaaaad slow :p Dec 22 05:26:04 java Dec 22 05:26:17 rooly: I have this: http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2145 Dec 22 05:26:31 frankS2: Yeah, that sounds pretty nasty... Dec 22 05:28:03 a commandline .xls > OO.o -file converter would be nice Dec 22 05:28:22 or i dunno if openmoko could read that either Dec 22 05:28:38 frankS2: Yeah, don't you love MS and their frickin proprietary crap? :P Dec 22 05:28:49 :p Dec 22 05:29:39 so at the current rate it's going to take 8 hours to download 400MB of tiles in tangogps Dec 22 05:29:48 :o Dec 22 05:29:58 i will get a open moko Dec 22 05:30:00 :D Dec 22 05:30:46 good for you Dec 22 05:37:14 hmmm Dec 22 05:37:32 the freerunner has a sd and a microsd slot right? Dec 22 05:37:52 sybesis: MicroSD, yes. SD, no. Dec 22 05:38:03 ah okay i tought i read SD Dec 22 05:38:05 But it comes with a really awesome stylus! Dec 22 05:38:06 SD is huge Dec 22 05:38:27 Nope. MicroSD, and you get a MicroSD->SD converter card too. Dec 22 05:38:38 ahhh thats it Dec 22 05:38:50 But the FR only takes MSD. Dec 22 05:38:57 thats enough Dec 22 05:39:04 Yup. Dec 22 05:39:15 but if it could take both i would put a huge microsd in both slot Dec 22 05:39:27 Heheh Dec 22 05:39:41 I need to buy a nice massive MSD card. Dec 22 05:39:52 At least 4GB, methinks. :) Dec 22 05:40:11 I need some room to play! :P Dec 22 06:55:14 good morning Dec 22 06:56:20 good hmmm what Dec 22 06:56:25 its 2 am here Dec 22 06:56:38 here is 8:00 am Dec 22 06:56:41 :) Dec 22 06:57:23 which country? Dec 22 06:57:52 france? Dec 22 06:58:20 italy Dec 22 06:58:26 you? Dec 22 06:58:29 sybesis: read the hostname :) Dec 22 06:58:42 canada Dec 22 06:58:46 11pm here in California, but I'm usually in Boston (2am) Dec 22 06:59:01 québec Dec 22 06:59:55 i'll probably request a OpenMoko to my parent for christmas...my phone broke today Dec 22 07:00:39 that's mean, giving them three days to get it ;-) Dec 22 07:00:56 ahah i'll do an order online Dec 22 07:01:33 and i dont actually care not having it for christmas...if i can have it in a week it would be cool Dec 22 07:01:57 the only thing that still scare me is the status of text message Dec 22 07:02:12 i heard earlier people having problem with text messages Dec 22 07:10:51 i've not done too much "txt msgn" with the 2008.12 image Dec 22 07:11:02 but with the 2008.9 image.. it was halfway decent Dec 22 07:11:24 i could regularly get it to crash adding multiple recipients ... but it generally worked well Dec 22 07:12:15 oh and 2008.9 would suspend while on a phone call of your suspend time triggered Dec 22 07:12:19 that was not fun to find out Dec 22 07:13:12 the 2008.12 image is a major step in the right direction Dec 22 07:13:30 i see Dec 22 07:13:37 i was actually reading this Dec 22 07:13:43 http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/openmokos-om20089-neo-freerunner Dec 22 07:14:22 is the battery life that low? Dec 22 07:15:01 yeah, that's pretty much it still Dec 22 07:15:12 i've had it last a full day in suspend mode with minor usage Dec 22 07:15:25 i see Dec 22 07:15:56 thats kind of bad compared to my dead cellphone that could last for a week without being used Dec 22 07:16:29 welcome to the 20th century Dec 22 07:16:59 but if its suspended most of the time it shouldnt consume a lot of power Dec 22 07:17:22 afaik, the gsm modem is still on Dec 22 07:17:46 (read: the device will come out of suspend when a call or txt arrives) Dec 22 07:17:55 yup Dec 22 07:18:17 but the gsm modem use that much power? Dec 22 07:18:28 yes Dec 22 07:18:34 lol wow Dec 22 07:18:40 you figure you have to talk to a tower that could be miles away... Dec 22 07:19:17 but anyway i could plug it in usb without problem Dec 22 07:19:24 correct Dec 22 07:19:59 or i'll buy a second battery just in case Dec 22 07:20:04 i have 3 Dec 22 07:20:09 lol Dec 22 07:20:10 lol Dec 22 07:20:37 may be 3 then heh Dec 22 07:20:40 you might look at the andriod dev device (or the g1 if you want the tmobile branded one) unless you are expecting to do development Dec 22 07:20:43 it's a little more polished Dec 22 07:20:55 i expect to do some dev Dec 22 07:21:01 i'm likely going to get one as a replacement to my blackberry pearl Dec 22 07:21:13 and then continue to use the gta02 as my personal phone Dec 22 07:21:21 :) Dec 22 07:22:01 * rooly uses his gta02 for everything telephony Dec 22 07:22:27 rooly, i've noticed that the gsm buzz is much, much better in 2008.12 Dec 22 07:22:52 also the guy of livejournal was complaining about audio quality Dec 22 07:22:57 yeah, well i'm not gonna touch om200x until i see some dramatic improvement Dec 22 07:23:02 how bad is it? Dec 22 07:23:03 like working networking Dec 22 07:23:17 rooly, ? Dec 22 07:23:23 rooly, what are you running? Dec 22 07:23:28 qtopia 4.3.2 Dec 22 07:23:31 ah Dec 22 07:23:37 does it do magic gprs? Dec 22 07:23:52 no, but but gprs does work without a hitch Dec 22 07:24:05 mind you, i haven't been able to convince networked apps to not crash Dec 22 07:24:13 ah Dec 22 07:24:25 but the fact that gprs works with no trouble is very comforting Dec 22 07:24:27 i kinda just want to be able to read my blogs on something other then my pearl Dec 22 07:24:42 heh Dec 22 07:24:46 i'm gonna use qte with its networked apps as soon as the things that make it unusable are fixed Dec 22 07:25:15 qte? Dec 22 07:25:32 * daMaestro tries to keep up on all the different images Dec 22 07:25:34 qt extended Dec 22 07:25:36 ah Dec 22 07:25:40 :o Dec 22 07:25:40 its the current name for qtopia Dec 22 07:25:45 4.4.x Dec 22 07:25:47 and later Dec 22 07:25:59 * sybesis try to get informed :o Dec 22 07:26:17 FDOM just made me mad Dec 22 07:26:31 2008.12 is nice.. much better then 2008.9, which i have been running for some time Dec 22 07:26:36 i used fdom for a day Dec 22 07:26:42 qtopia was the first image that i could actually make calls with Dec 22 07:26:44 and then got tired of it cause it was borken Dec 22 07:27:01 (back on my gta01) Dec 22 07:27:08 is the settings app still broken? Dec 22 07:27:17 what did you find broken? Dec 22 07:28:07 hmm, bluetooth option is pointless, wifi doesn't work, gps is automatic anyway, not enough configurablity Dec 22 07:28:39 pretty much the same then Dec 22 07:28:54 ... Dec 22 07:29:06 except wifi has been removed Dec 22 07:29:15 bluetooth == on/off Dec 22 07:29:18 same with gps Dec 22 07:29:27 about all the settings app was good for was as a wifi detector Dec 22 07:29:41 so it allows you to set: brightness, profile, and suspend settings Dec 22 07:29:49 and then some other buttons to press Dec 22 07:30:08 yeah, i don't know where the wifi stuff went Dec 22 07:31:12 rooly, i'm just glad i can't crash it by opening and closing the tasks menu 5 times straight Dec 22 07:31:25 thats pretty gay Dec 22 07:31:49 this release seems to have been very focused on stability and speed Dec 22 07:32:04 however, .... however, don't run it without a sim card... it likes to boom far too often Dec 22 07:32:21 :o Dec 22 07:32:26 which version? Dec 22 07:32:43 2008.12 Dec 22 07:32:59 okay seems good for me Dec 22 07:33:00 but trust me, it's better then any of the other om releases Dec 22 07:33:15 things are getting better.. .a little bit at a time Dec 22 07:33:19 is it hard to install the image? Dec 22 07:33:28 do you run linux? Dec 22 07:33:32 yup Dec 22 07:33:35 not at all Dec 22 07:33:40 dfu-util is easy as pie Dec 22 07:34:03 does it install it on the microsd or it flash the phone? Dec 22 07:34:12 either, default on the flash Dec 22 07:34:27 cool :)< Dec 22 07:34:28 sorry.. on the phone Dec 22 07:34:38 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko Dec 22 07:34:50 thx Dec 22 07:35:07 remember to install this application http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenVibe Dec 22 07:35:35 hahhaahh Dec 22 07:35:41 now that shit is funny Dec 22 07:35:54 yeah Dec 22 07:36:00 i loved it Dec 22 07:37:54 oh lol Dec 22 07:37:55 i will Dec 22 07:39:31 gah, i suppose i should go to bed.. work in 6 hours Dec 22 07:41:02 going to bed too Dec 22 07:41:05 good night Dec 22 07:41:15 thx for all the info, i'm less scared now Dec 22 08:56:45 Hello; is there any application capable of locking screen in SHR? Dec 22 10:15:23 weird that openmoko inc is using XLS format, smells like MS OFfice Excel Dec 22 10:19:30 heh, i guess that android image wasn't meant for gta01 Dec 22 10:19:54 locks up at "Starting kernel ..." Dec 22 10:20:31 you modified your boot loader or installed qi? Dec 22 10:20:34 * admiral0 thinks that android isn't so great as it seems Dec 22 10:21:02 i just flashed the kernel and rootfs i found on the wiki Dec 22 10:21:43 the kernel is bigger than is allowed with the boot loader, you need to configure it to allow a kernel bigger than 2mb Dec 22 10:22:19 hm.. Dec 22 10:22:20 ok Dec 22 10:49:52 Psi, install qi ftw :P Dec 22 10:50:45 mmm... any idea on how to download maps for tangogps for offline use? Dec 22 10:51:40 sure, get tangogps on your linux computer and download them there Dec 22 10:52:11 spydon: i have no debug board for my gta01 Dec 22 10:52:19 flashing uboot is abit risky Dec 22 10:52:54 there are 2 boot loaders Dec 22 10:53:33 Psi, aah gta01... :P Dec 22 10:54:16 yeah, gta01 has no NOR Dec 22 10:54:28 dns53, thanks Dec 22 10:56:42 poco i have a script that will update the images for osm makpnik and osmarender based on what i have already downloaded Dec 22 10:57:18 dns53, you should release it publicly, might be very useful Dec 22 10:58:08 it's just a for loop of ls */*/*.png and wgetting from a base path, i'll find the code if you want Dec 22 11:04:22 Is there a standard way to disable dropshadow in the enlightenment window manager (besides removing the /usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/dropshadow directory, which generates an error message on x startup). Dec 22 11:04:43 I'm running into the bug described here: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-December/038370.html Dec 22 11:11:47 sarahasharp: there's a "modules" box inside illume-config, but it doesn't seem to fit well on the screen. Dec 22 11:12:14 what error message do you get? i just got a message saying that the module couldn't be loaded and asking me if i wanted to disable it Dec 22 12:00:01 hi, Dec 22 12:00:05 i'm using shr and trying to get an gps signal Dec 22 12:00:15 if i do cat /dev/ttySAC1 Dec 22 12:00:33 i dont get any output, do i have to enable the gps chip first? Dec 22 12:00:38 tifereth: yes Dec 22 12:00:45 and how? Dec 22 12:01:18 in the settings app Dec 22 12:01:23 there you will find an entry Dec 22 12:01:50 no there's non in shr Dec 22 12:02:35 tifereth: just give it a minute or two under a clear sky Dec 22 12:02:41 tifereth: start tango and leave it on a window for 15 minutes or so Dec 22 12:03:00 The first fix took quite a while for me, later ones were much faster Dec 22 12:03:13 ah.. okay that could be the problem Dec 22 12:03:16 i'll try Dec 22 12:59:06 What should be defined in MACHINE_CLASS? Dec 22 12:59:41 its used in conf/distro/openmoko.conf, but I haven't found definition in oe tree so maybe it should be in local.conf? Dec 22 12:59:51 hm.. i let tangogps run for at least 30 minutes Dec 22 12:59:56 and still no position Dec 22 13:00:12 tifereth: Are you inside a building? :) Dec 22 13:00:35 yeha but shouldn't it work too it was near a window Dec 22 13:00:41 it should work in a car at least Dec 22 13:01:07 tifereth: my works near window but only sometimes.. Dec 22 13:02:19 tifereth: go outside and try Dec 22 13:03:11 when I've had a fix it has continued to work inside a building, or at least still gave a reading. But the first time I ran it I had to go outside, even after this it takes a minute under clear sky Dec 22 13:04:18 okay i'm trying Dec 22 13:04:33 i am looking for a small antenna for the gps, has anyone tried that before? ( something like http://www.data-alliance.net/servlet/the-30/Antenna-mini-dsh-Omni-MMCX-connector/Detail ) Dec 22 13:05:30 good boy/girl (delete as appropriate) Dec 22 13:09:19 edge2: see the wiki page Dec 22 13:30:54 tifereth: where are you? :) Dec 22 13:31:04 germany Dec 22 13:31:44 :), ok but have you got your gps working? Dec 22 13:33:16 btw. anyone need a german osm compilation (NRW) in osm format? :) Dec 22 13:33:38 erm, meant, gps data in osm format Dec 22 13:46:49 anttna: no, but perhaps my house isn't the best place to try it, i'll try while driving a longer distance Dec 22 13:51:43 tifereth: althought it will pick up a signal under glass (on the dashboard) I find it better to get a fix before getting into the car. Maybe if it is cloudy this will hinder a signal too Dec 22 14:23:43 Is there anybody here who ever used the "smartcard" python module ? Dec 22 14:23:43 (from pyscard) Dec 22 14:39:09 helo Dec 22 14:51:38 I see that the gta01 ovrers can forget to have support from openmoko? Dec 22 14:52:21 yoyo: who are you talking to? ;) Dec 22 14:53:05 lindi-: to my self :/ Dec 22 14:53:11 ok :) Dec 22 15:14:09 Deubeuliou: not me. you can grep the logs if that helps http://www.mail-archive.com/community@lists.openmoko.org/msg08284.html Dec 22 15:15:04 ok. I solved half of my problem, though Dec 22 15:15:27 it was caused by code missing in that module Dec 22 15:17:50 yoyo: Yes, but that's been the case for a very very long time. The community keeps the gta01 alive. Dec 22 15:26:42 mwester: you mean that is a end of gta01? Dec 22 15:38:20 hi Dec 22 16:11:34 i cant get gps in the lastest shr also Dec 22 16:13:48 Hopefully they update Android to the latest git for on-screen keyboard :D Dec 22 16:27:23 how do u use git anyways? Dec 22 16:30:51 hello all :-) Dec 22 16:47:48 i think it was asked before but: who did the openmoko marketing videos on youtube? Dec 22 16:49:17 Elvis! Dec 22 16:49:20 Or not. Dec 22 16:49:43 whut? Dec 22 16:56:56 does somebody know if it's possible to have vibration within shr ? Dec 22 16:57:45 raph_ael: i have vibration with shr Dec 22 16:57:53 for some time Dec 22 16:57:56 :x Dec 22 16:58:47 dos1: well in profile, there is just default and silent :) Dec 22 17:00:05 raph_ael: vibra works in both Dec 22 17:00:22 you can set it in rules.yaml Dec 22 17:02:42 dos1: thanks, but where is rules.yaml ? ;) Dec 22 17:03:26 raph_ael: find /etc -name rules.yaml? Dec 22 17:04:44 lindi-: sure thanks Dec 22 17:07:47 a weird thing with the gps is that when i have my phone on the table its telling me that i am moving between 0.1 - 2.4 km/h Dec 22 17:08:07 other then that its great, works better then the nokia one i had, even get locks indoors :) Dec 22 17:08:17 strange the terminal shows no keyboard :) Dec 22 17:09:02 sebbs: continental drift. Dec 22 17:09:04 raph_ael: is your keyboard setup properly? Dec 22 17:09:12 mwester: lol Dec 22 17:10:34 sebbs: i'm discovering shr, and don't know yet where things are :) Dec 22 17:10:55 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS_Problems they mention a hardware fix, but it does not say from which hardware revision it began Dec 22 17:11:08 sebbs: it's normal (keyboard) Dec 22 17:11:09 raph_ael: is shr good? ive never tried that dist Dec 22 17:11:22 it is good Dec 22 17:11:40 sebbs: for the moment i find it the best Dec 22 17:11:46 raph_ael: how so? Dec 22 17:11:55 but i have the device only since friday Dec 22 17:12:12 :) Dec 22 17:12:13 sebbs: quite stable, easy to use, most things seem to work Dec 22 17:12:17 i have since holidays Dec 22 17:12:41 and for me only debian will be better for now Dec 22 17:13:05 but my microsdhc 4gb isn't working... Dec 22 17:13:25 sebbs: fdom was not much usable imho, qtopia was nice also Dec 22 17:13:47 qtopia is nice, im thinking about using it with debian Dec 22 17:13:55 chrooting debian and runnign my apps Dec 22 17:14:17 sebbs: it can be nice Dec 22 17:14:23 well time to go back home Dec 22 17:14:27 :) see u Dec 22 17:17:48 shr keyboard is in the dropdown menu on upper right Dec 22 17:40:07 i just update to 2008.12 and the illume keyboard and screw are gone, how do i get them back? Dec 22 17:47:35 Isn't the SSH-server on by default on SHR? :P Dec 22 17:49:32 spydon: it is Dec 22 17:51:04 hmm weird, I can ping it but not ssh to it Dec 22 17:51:24 dropbear Dec 22 18:23:15 hello cananyone help me to fix my illume from 2008 Dec 22 18:23:28 he sad me at x restart Dec 22 18:23:48 very bad fail please compile with -g or so Dec 22 18:24:02 i have upgrade with fdomizer Dec 22 18:24:07 please help Dec 22 19:05:01 okay Dec 22 19:05:11 i'm using qtextended Dec 22 19:05:24 the testing image Dec 22 19:05:34 from october Dec 22 19:05:49 there's this issue with people i talk to hearing an echo Dec 22 19:06:29 and i see a bug report with a patch against a package called qtopia-phone-x11-phonevendor-ficgta01vendor Dec 22 19:06:36 that package is in my opkg source Dec 22 19:06:42 but it is not installed on my phone Dec 22 19:06:58 why isnt it? Should i install it? Dec 22 19:09:59 you can't qtextend doesn't use x11 Dec 22 19:10:16 but this package is from openmoko distro and use x11. Dec 22 19:10:27 oh Dec 22 19:10:36 well is there a fix i can install for qtextended? Dec 22 19:11:09 http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1267 Dec 22 19:11:40 why does that package use the word "qtopia" in the title? Dec 22 19:11:42 I don't know, many people says, that it is possible to just remix valume... As for me I switched to SHR instead than qtextended Dec 22 19:11:57 i see Dec 22 19:12:07 well i had SHR and switched to qtextended Dec 22 19:12:09 because it *IS* qtopia, but compiled for x11 Dec 22 19:12:43 e.g. qtextended, can be compiled for framebuffer Dec 22 19:12:46 or for x11. Dec 22 19:13:06 i have debian also Dec 22 19:13:10 Can I use a non-SHR kernel with SHR? All the available SHR kernels have the accelerometer bug Dec 22 19:13:37 you can use mwester's kernel Dec 22 19:13:44 i was using it before i switched to qtextended Dec 22 19:13:55 cept i'm using neo1973 Dec 22 19:14:07 but i use the same kernel for debian,qtextended, and SHR Dec 22 19:14:24 Does it have the accelerometer bug? :P Dec 22 19:14:40 that bug isnt relevent to neo1973 (gta01) Dec 22 19:14:45 there's no accelerometer in my phone Dec 22 19:17:37 Ahh. Dec 22 19:17:41 Poor fella. Dec 22 19:20:53 Ugh, are there any kernels that DON'T have the bug? Dec 22 19:21:10 Digital_Pioneer: maybe om-testing? Dec 22 19:21:17 or andy-tracking Dec 22 19:21:28 dos1: I hear andy-tracking has it too. Dec 22 19:22:06 should i switch back to SHR? Dec 22 19:22:17 just to ditch the echo Dec 22 19:28:22 orzo, I hadn't echo bug with qtopia-4.3. Dec 22 19:28:39 oh Dec 22 19:28:46 well i think i installed 4.4 Dec 22 19:29:32 i'll try installing from teh 4.3 branch Dec 22 19:29:43 Wow, this sucks.... Dec 22 19:30:30 4.4.2 Dec 22 19:30:38 http://qtextended.org/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=6 Dec 22 19:30:48 i installed the gta01 image for 4.4.2 on that page Dec 22 19:30:52 it has the echo bug Dec 22 19:31:16 it's from october 31 Dec 22 19:58:06 should be trivialish to fix? Dec 22 20:04:31 OK, if the screen goes blank white, and restarting X doesn't fix it, what do I do? Just reboot? Dec 22 20:09:17 Is there no amazing screen reinitialization command? Dec 22 20:09:31 shutdown -r -t 0 now ? Dec 22 20:09:43 restart X ? Dec 22 20:10:05 alephnull: See above: tried it. Dec 22 20:10:26 chvt ? Dec 22 20:14:54 zash__: Usage? Dec 22 20:22:35 hi Dec 22 20:22:44 im wathcing this: http://blog.mikeasoft.com/2007/07/01/openmoko-on-a-treo-650/#comments Dec 22 20:22:54 how do i install openmoko in a treo 650?... Dec 22 20:23:03 cannot see any advices how to do it.. Dec 22 20:23:06 anytips welcome! Dec 22 20:23:35 Isn't that one of the "if you need to ask you'd better not do it" ? ;) Dec 22 20:23:49 killfill: you don't. Dec 22 20:24:00 killfill: or rather - you start out by knowing how to do it. Dec 22 20:24:19 hm... Dec 22 20:24:33 killfill: at the moment OM doesn't really work on the core devices. It's going to be some time before people put effort into porting it. Dec 22 20:24:51 i could follow something like this: http://blog.mikeasoft.com/2007/06/30/im-in-ur-treo-linuxin-ur-phonez/ :) Dec 22 20:25:13 Yeah. Dec 22 20:25:19 but thats not openmoko... isnit? Dec 22 20:25:45 Well - the fundamental problem is that OM is a rapidly shifting target, so any 'how-to' will be rapidly out of date. Dec 22 20:25:59 hm.. Dec 22 20:26:38 could be interesting,.. i work with this devices in the office.. :P Dec 22 20:26:43 palOS sucks bad. Dec 22 20:27:14 Then again. Dec 22 20:27:19 The above link is just a hack. Dec 22 20:27:28 It can't run any useful applications at all. Dec 22 20:32:51 killfill: You're in the right place. Dec 22 20:33:55 mwester, that do you meean? Dec 22 20:34:15 killfill: raster can help out; he's got the local git repo with the Treo 650 support. It doesn't run any of the phone apps yet, but basically the same rootfs as the FSO stuff. Dec 22 20:34:31 And it is based, roughly, on the URL you noted. Dec 22 20:35:05 Ah Dec 22 20:35:46 well i could not help developping/porting the plataform 'per se', but maybe 'packageing'/testing things up .. :) Dec 22 20:39:36 maybe i can convince someone to put some bucks from the pocket.. to do something like a 'bounty'.. :P Dec 22 20:48:54 Digital_Pioneer: chvt 1 && chvt 7 Dec 22 20:53:16 zash__: No such device or address. Dec 22 21:05:55 is it possible to download the .bin of GTA and run it in virtualbox? just to test it ? Dec 22 21:06:26 frankS2: Qemu Dec 22 21:06:31 Doesn't virtualbox emulate an x86 ? Dec 22 21:07:03 viq: doesnt emulate, but virtualize ;-) Dec 22 21:07:21 And the difference is? :P Dec 22 21:07:28 great :-P Dec 22 21:07:45 Do tell ;) Dec 22 21:07:47 freesmartphone.org: 03niklas.coding 07libframeworkd-glib * r26330e402a60 10/src/ (frameworkd-glib-dbus.c frameworkd-glib-dbus.h): Renamed DBUS error constants, because they are already used in the dbus source. Dec 22 21:08:16 so the thing i'm wondering is... would KMS (kernel mode setting) affect the OM project at all? Dec 22 21:18:11 hi, is it good idea to compile libstdc++ with threads support for fr ? Dec 22 21:30:09 lpotter wats up an will it be soon? Dec 22 21:30:29 an whats it going to be called? 4.4.3? Dec 22 21:36:15 raster: hi, are you here ? Dec 22 21:40:40 jc: maybe :) Dec 22 21:41:11 raster: I seek dictators counsel Dec 22 21:41:31 raster: do you think there are many floating point operations in the gui ? Dec 22 21:42:19 hmmm Dec 22 21:42:25 its possible - yes Dec 22 21:42:30 edje does a bit of fp Dec 22 21:42:33 not per-pixel Dec 22 21:42:40 but on layout calcs Dec 22 21:42:52 i've had on my list to turn them into fixed-point Dec 22 21:42:58 but havent gotten to it Dec 22 21:43:16 have any indications this could cause major slowups on fr ? Dec 22 21:43:19 raster: how much will it help in performance on freerunner? Dec 22 21:43:26 *slowdowns Dec 22 21:43:43 well I'm deciding on compile options for my stuff and I want the gui to be smooth Dec 22 21:44:19 I have to choose between lot of register space and float performance Dec 22 21:44:40 i suspect it really doesnt impact it that much Dec 22 21:44:49 as its only done at the higher levels Dec 22 21:44:54 not like "per pixel" Dec 22 21:44:57 for example Dec 22 21:45:06 and its not emulatyed fp via kernel interrupts Dec 22 21:45:10 but soft-fp Dec 22 21:45:23 so movign to fixed point is going to simply be a bit more optimised Dec 22 21:45:50 as such make sure u use soft-float Dec 22 21:45:58 anything else for armv4 is silly Dec 22 21:46:26 yeah, I'm definitely going with softfloat Dec 22 21:46:38 no context switches, no interrupts, good for cache Dec 22 21:46:53 also I'm going with thumb for most packages Dec 22 21:47:03 and I think I'll go threadless for starters Dec 22 21:47:04 caant comment omn thumb Dec 22 21:47:09 dont know how it will help Dec 22 21:47:21 16bit instructions Dec 22 21:47:30 less instructions do more work Dec 22 21:47:42 good for memory moves, bad for calculations Dec 22 21:48:21 and since memory moves is what 90% programs normally do all the time, you get it... Dec 22 21:49:50 I'm not sure on ABI so far, so thats why I'm asking, there are several variants of gnu eabi, each better for other stuff Dec 22 21:50:18 u'd have to focus on diffferent fucntins and routines there Dec 22 21:50:34 as i know that the code is littered with all sorts of different focuses Dec 22 21:50:37 you can compile something as arm and something for thumb Dec 22 21:50:39 some bits are calc-heavy Dec 22 21:50:52 some just pump memory around with minimal work done on it Dec 22 21:50:55 exactly, if those were optimized... Dec 22 21:51:10 its just a matter of sticking .code32 directive at top of math functions Dec 22 21:51:16 u cant ask as a whole - because then i'd say "well. its a mix!" Dec 22 21:51:20 "depends what you do" Dec 22 21:51:23 :) Dec 22 21:51:35 theres a cost to switch in/out of thumb too Dec 22 21:51:38 assuming your abi allows the seamless interwork Dec 22 21:51:39 yeah Dec 22 21:51:41 so beware Dec 22 21:51:44 on armv4t, definitely Dec 22 21:51:52 on newer, its a matter of setting a status bit Dec 22 21:51:53 the best is to try abd benchmark Dec 22 21:51:56 here it involves branches Dec 22 21:51:56 and Dec 22 21:52:08 abd benchmark ? Dec 22 21:52:16 oh Dec 22 21:52:36 and benchmark Dec 22 21:52:46 dunno how yet... Dec 22 21:52:53 expedite is eva'ss test+benchmark suite Dec 22 21:53:04 theres a .bb for it Dec 22 21:53:22 of course, always the first priority will be the overall feel for me Dec 22 21:53:57 if it jitters and doesn't refresh cleanly and gets stuck for long pending syscalls, then I don't like it Dec 22 21:54:44 hmm I see expedite is e stuff :) Dec 22 21:55:17 of course Dec 22 21:55:19 :) Dec 22 21:55:33 assuming I'll use enlightenment? ;P Dec 22 21:55:41 thats what i use to know if code is worth doing Dec 22 21:55:43 I think I'll mix it Dec 22 21:55:47 eg - does it actusally speed evas up Dec 22 21:55:49 or slow it down Dec 22 21:56:02 eg i optimised memory usage - do i pay now a cost in performance? Dec 22 21:56:07 or.. do i introduce a bug Dec 22 21:56:29 and do you test the feel too ? Dec 22 21:56:30 as such evas does a broad crosssection of calculating and shuffling memory around Dec 22 21:56:44 so its probably not a bad overall benchmark Dec 22 21:56:50 though the actual baseline moves as evas's code changes Dec 22 21:56:59 sorry to say but gui performance on FDOM sucks big time Dec 22 21:57:01 you cant test "feel" Dec 22 21:57:32 dunno the numbers but it takes about 5 seconds before a damn qtopia window pops up and starts ringing for incoming call Dec 22 21:58:14 another 7 seconds or so before the buttons appear so you can take the call Dec 22 21:58:15 jc: try shr Dec 22 21:58:26 and when you tap the button, it takes about 3 seconds before it lights up Dec 22 21:58:57 well of course, at least it works, that much I won't take from anybody Dec 22 21:59:09 but if it can be somehow improved by compiler optimizations, I'll try it Dec 22 21:59:29 I get most of stuff on these distros is binary garbage collected from debian Dec 22 21:59:39 I compile everything Dec 22 22:00:26 if that stuff was already compiled optimized for fr, then I don't know what :/ Dec 22 22:00:45 i cant answer for qt Dec 22 22:01:03 i can tell u witrh efl what the problems on FR are Dec 22 22:01:04 qt sucks much more than the rest of the system to be fair Dec 22 22:01:04 hello Dec 22 22:01:11 gtk dialogs and stuff are pretty much ok Dec 22 22:01:12 everybody here Dec 22 22:01:19 helpp me plzz Dec 22 22:01:23 and as such its probably the exception in embedded for performance Dec 22 22:01:31 don't tell me its about the glamo Dec 22 22:01:45 I have seen a fluid 10fps or so full screen animation Dec 22 22:01:46 efl runs smoothly on pretty much everything i have thrown it at - except the freerunner Dec 22 22:02:01 its partly glamo Dec 22 22:02:10 partly slow memory bus Dec 22 22:02:13 yeah Dec 22 22:02:18 (just on the soc) Dec 22 22:02:22 still its 50 MHz or so Dec 22 22:02:25 i have problem when upgrade opkg Dec 22 22:02:26 partly a low-end old soc (armv4) Dec 22 22:02:45 and partly the insane resolution crammed onto what is otherwise a really old/low-end system Dec 22 22:02:46 oh don't you insult ARM9 in front of me :) Dec 22 22:03:02 ie if it were qvga - that;'d be an appropriate resolution for that level of cpu Dec 22 22:03:07 everyone can help mee plzz Dec 22 22:03:13 vga is inapporpriate Dec 22 22:03:27 its a pretty large resolution, true Dec 22 22:03:37 but the pandora for example has 800xsomething Dec 22 22:03:42 and it works fluid as hell Dec 22 22:03:51 it has only a few instructions more in the cpu Dec 22 22:03:57 like clz Dec 22 22:04:06 and a fpu coprocessor, which you said wasn't a major factor Dec 22 22:04:31 true, it has 2d acceleration and an ok bus Dec 22 22:04:43 RJ812: sorry - middle of conversation :) Dec 22 22:04:56 jc: pandora is many leages faster Dec 22 22:04:56 I think its directly on the soc Dec 22 22:05:08 it starts at 600MHz Dec 22 22:05:10 jc: example - 600mhz cortex. you're going to be pushing 3-4x the mips Dec 22 22:05:15 or more Dec 22 22:05:20 and runs full screen quake (software rendering) for gods sake :) Dec 22 22:05:29 its 333mhz DDR Dec 22 22:05:42 freerunner is 100mhz sdr Dec 22 22:06:09 well, lets try a x86 analogy Dec 22 22:06:25 GUI on my old P2 server ruins fluidly Dec 22 22:06:28 (and all writes to video ram lose you cycles - so if you spend 20% of your time writing video data to the screen - or 30% then as such you can effectively drop your mem bus to 40mhz or so) Dec 22 22:06:43 its 1024x768 old ATI VGA card as framebuffer I think Dec 22 22:06:49 200MHz Dec 22 22:06:59 so ddr333 is equivalent to sdr666 - so you have >6x the raw mem bandwidth Dec 22 22:07:06 and in reality probably closer to 10x Dec 22 22:07:27 the iomap3530 is actually an impressive platform Dec 22 22:07:37 :(( Dec 22 22:08:20 well, maybe the raw redraw rate wouldn't be ok then Dec 22 22:09:03 hmm as for pandora (omap3530) Dec 22 22:09:10 it has a whole host more instructions Dec 22 22:09:14 still it takes about 15 embarassing seconds to take a call on the fr when it arrives, most of which you hope it shows the gui and registers your tap Dec 22 22:09:18 the multimedia simd (muxh like mmx/sse) Dec 22 22:09:24 but i know efl has no asm code for that Dec 22 22:09:26 I think it isn't just the gui to blame Dec 22 22:09:29 but... it will in the future Dec 22 22:09:40 got a beagleboard coming Dec 22 22:09:54 yeah, it has, but I thought this was about raw memory bandwidth Dec 22 22:10:02 also I think it has full 32 bit bus Dec 22 22:10:33 hehe they use gnome I think Dec 22 22:10:37 yeah Dec 22 22:10:40 they run that Dec 22 22:10:43 and firefox Dec 22 22:10:48 pretty sleek Dec 22 22:11:02 (firefox on an ARM - OMG !) Dec 22 22:11:05 so as such freerunner is the worst performing embedded system i have worked with :( Dec 22 22:11:15 its not in the cpu Dec 22 22:11:33 the c860 (zaurus - xscale @ 400mhz + ati w100 gfx chip) is the 2nd worst Dec 22 22:11:43 but I think all the things around it are screwed up Dec 22 22:11:44 n800 3rd probably Dec 22 22:11:54 starting with the glamo Dec 22 22:11:56 then the gsm Dec 22 22:11:59 treo650 is possibly the best - fighting with the ipaq3600 Dec 22 22:12:09 then the goddamn gps antena around sd clock Dec 22 22:12:09 but the 3660 was amazing with a 200mhz mem bus Dec 22 22:12:18 sd card too, getting back to the glamo Dec 22 22:12:29 though u have to give it kudos - its like 8 years old Dec 22 22:13:09 well I thought at the time I got it freerunner was only option to have phone with linux on that you can change, have schematics and good hardware grasp of Dec 22 22:13:50 I was kinda used to good designs of old microcomputers and gaming platforms so I presumed the guys know very well what are they doing and I'd start checking the hardware slowly when I get it Dec 22 22:14:11 as such if you limited your gfx to ONLY the stuff glamo does in hardware Dec 22 22:14:17 and is accelerated - ui would be smoother Dec 22 22:14:22 but it'd be a pretty boring ui Dec 22 22:14:40 and frankly u'd be writign a ui for 1 device - it'd work on others but u'd be losing out Dec 22 22:14:47 well, ok if it takes a second to redraw a window Dec 22 22:14:49 and the fr as a device is an exception in the performance world Dec 22 22:14:50 lets live with that Dec 22 22:14:52 not the rule Dec 22 22:14:57 so you're optimising for an outlier case Dec 22 22:15:01 not the mainstream Dec 22 22:15:14 omap3530 is much mroe in line with mainstream as i'd expect it to be developing over time Dec 22 22:15:30 still the opengl part is proprietary, afaik Dec 22 22:15:30 but a lot of it is just siliness in qtopia Dec 22 22:15:36 it ASSUMES its on qws Dec 22 22:15:46 hardware desc of pandora is closed - second thing I don't like AT ALL Dec 22 22:15:53 where some thngs like converting xqpimap ->qimage and back to qpixmap is zero-cost Dec 22 22:15:54 all that contributed to choosing fr over pandora Dec 22 22:15:57 on x11 thats a huge cost Dec 22 22:16:05 partly because of the port back to x11 Dec 22 22:16:14 but imho more to do with the assumption of windowing system Dec 22 22:16:27 I'd like to get rid of the qtopia crap and all qt stuff whatsoever Dec 22 22:16:41 yeah - tho with panny the 2d gfx is open and working Dec 22 22:16:45 xvideo accel works Dec 22 22:16:52 basic 2d is accelerated Dec 22 22:16:58 pretty much same as on glamo Dec 22 22:17:06 so you can just ignore the 3d core Dec 22 22:17:08 glamo has zero docs Dec 22 22:17:10 pretend it doesnt exist Dec 22 22:17:12 :) Dec 22 22:17:15 it has docs Dec 22 22:17:16 Qt is good, it's just evil Qtextended pile with not enough manpower in mothercompany Dec 22 22:17:17 but not open Dec 22 22:17:23 glamo has zero docs for normal people Dec 22 22:17:49 I don't like mixing toolkits Dec 22 22:17:57 even on my desktop Dec 22 22:18:07 jc: I don't like restricting to only one toolkit Dec 22 22:18:16 on a laptop with 2GB RAM, I don't mind that much Dec 22 22:18:18 because often it limits much what you get Dec 22 22:18:26 but on my desktop with 1GB RAM Dec 22 22:18:41 you browse with firefox, compile, watch a video, its ok, about 80% mem, rest cache Dec 22 22:18:49 swap on minimum, some 5% or so Dec 22 22:18:57 jc: I run several toolkits and do huge compiling with 1 GiB Dec 22 22:18:59 should be that way all the time, no slowdowns at all Dec 22 22:19:11 then run a goddamn k3b or amarok instance Dec 22 22:19:26 and the whole thing goes crazy Dec 22 22:19:49 doesnt happen here Dec 22 22:19:56 I get more swaping, up to some 15% and almost 100% cpu usage Dec 22 22:20:03 it starts all the qt stuff Dec 22 22:20:09 its not the mixing toolkits Dec 22 22:20:16 really the cost of multiple toolkit libs is not a problem Dec 22 22:20:19 firefox is your problem Dec 22 22:20:31 qts problem it tries to do a lot of more than just gui Dec 22 22:20:40 it does database, does IPC and stuff Dec 22 22:20:50 and otherwise the many lebvels of bloat and memory usage by the gazillion processes launched as part of the "Desktop environment" Dec 22 22:21:01 why do a goddamn dcop or whatever it was called in a dbus world Dec 22 22:21:03 i have no prolbmes with e17 mem-wise Dec 22 22:21:33 jc: dcop hasn't been in KDE since 4.0 series Dec 22 22:21:34 well Dec 22 22:21:35 fyi Dec 22 22:21:43 my 'desktop environment' takes about 10% mem Dec 22 22:21:59 I have everything stripped, don't even run a normal gnome session Dec 22 22:22:15 anyway, baby is crying so this debate is not my priority, see you later, kids <3 Dec 22 22:22:29 firefox 3 is starting to be pretty much ok for me, it doesn't hog all the memory anymore Dec 22 22:22:57 Tm_T: good bye Dec 22 22:23:09 iceweasel works here but sometimes eats so much memory that linux kills it Dec 22 22:24:49 well anyway, I'll hope fr will be eventually usable Dec 22 22:25:33 maybe for the calls, a solution could be to let the gui be present all the time but hidden Dec 22 22:25:48 so it pops up a lot faster once a call arrives Dec 22 22:29:52 hey I wonder how windows would run on fr, given ideal drivers Dec 22 22:30:05 that would be fun to watch Dec 22 22:35:37 nn folks Dec 22 22:38:35 dammit, I understand aapcs-gnu is what the new arm eabi is called on gcc ? Dec 22 22:42:23 hello, I think that I've a big problem...the usb networking doesn't work anymore...i've only usb0 in the range of 192.168.0.200 on my Desktop computer...and pinginging doesn't work!!! Dec 22 22:42:42 huh ? Dec 22 22:43:00 Gnutoo, this the first boot of Om2008.12? Dec 22 22:43:01 Gnutoo: post output of ifconfig -a Dec 22 22:43:35 if so its a known problem, just reboot the device Dec 22 22:43:49 jc: no, i think aapcs is what the old one was called Dec 22 22:44:13 balrog-kun: the possibilities are: `apcs-gnu', `atpcs', `aapcs', `aapcs-linux' and `iwmmxt' Dec 22 22:44:17 i would have to check to be sure though Dec 22 22:44:18 jonsmith1982, jc my distro is SHR...and It works now...I had to ifup usb0 on the device...but why didn't it do it automatically? Dec 22 22:44:38 ok, dunno I have it on all the time in the device, I use FDOM for now Dec 22 22:45:02 jc: what version of binutils or gdb is it? Dec 22 22:45:05 balrog-kun: I know iwmmxt has some optimizations for cpus with vector instructions Dec 22 22:45:41 balrog-kun: I'ts gcc-4.3.2 Dec 22 22:46:10 apcs is supposedly the old abi (as far as googled mailing lists tell) Dec 22 22:47:14 jc: yeah, you're right, aapcs is aeabi or eabi Dec 22 22:47:20 so now I'm deciding with aapcs, atpcs and aapcs-linux Dec 22 22:47:21 * balrog-kun checked the docs Dec 22 22:47:46 and as far as I googled, aapcs-linux doesn't allow too small enums so the abi works properly with linux Dec 22 22:47:52 arm architecture procedure call standard Dec 22 22:48:18 so I guess its atpcs and aapcs-linux now Dec 22 22:50:06 ok I've googled atpcs is supposed to allow thumb/arm interwork Dec 22 22:55:58 ok no factor, aapcs is the newest one and allows thumb-arm interwork too Dec 22 22:56:23 Can you change the ringtone of SHR somewhere? :P Dec 22 22:57:00 lol I haven't thought of that yet actually, hope its possible Dec 22 23:01:13 spydon: the same way like in fso Dec 22 23:01:32 Dominus, haven't used fso ^^ Dec 22 23:01:38 oops dos1 * Dec 22 23:04:08 does anybody know what -mfpu option with -msoft-float is the best performance (least precision) ? Dec 22 23:11:43 anybody can help me :s Dec 22 23:12:00 :s Dec 22 23:13:32 what is it? Dec 22 23:13:32 freesmartphone.org: 03niklas.coding 07libframeworkd-glib * r68032c878a34 10/src/ (11 files in 4 dirs): Added USSD support. Updated some old usage and network code. Dec 22 23:14:34 RJ812: with what ? Dec 22 23:15:43 have problem after updated openmoko Dec 22 23:15:48 Xserver no start Dec 22 23:16:25 try to start it with the initscript ? Dec 22 23:16:31 have errors like IRQ message Dec 22 23:16:35 oh Dec 22 23:16:59 hic Dec 22 23:17:02 which distro is it ? Dec 22 23:17:29 Linux om-gta02 2.6.24 #1 PREEMPT Thu Apr 24 08:23:36 CST 2008 armv4tl unknown Dec 22 23:17:44 well, but distribution :) Dec 22 23:18:27 like Om2008, Om2007, Android, ... Dec 22 23:18:47 0m2007-02 Dec 22 23:18:57 thats the default one I guess ? Dec 22 23:19:03 ys Dec 22 23:19:08 I think its not maintained anymore, you should flash to a new one Dec 22 23:19:59 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions Dec 22 23:20:12 pick the one you like Dec 22 23:20:41 ys, i try :( Dec 22 23:20:46 good luck Dec 22 23:22:05 i using neo1973 and have warn "crash" with OM2008 Dec 22 23:22:28 oooh Dec 22 23:22:33 you're using gta01 Dec 22 23:22:37 you have a gta02 kernel Dec 22 23:22:40 thats your problem then Dec 22 23:22:59 how to fix this problem Dec 22 23:23:07 gta01 is the neo1973 and your /proc/version says youre using kernel for gta02 Dec 22 23:23:23 I think you should downgrade to your original kernel or find a new one for gta01 Dec 22 23:24:29 daaamn I'm stuck at choosing a fpu standard, again obscure documentation Dec 22 23:25:02 fpa? fpe? maverick? vfp? god dammit Dec 22 23:25:18 I guess vfp is vector floating point which I don't want Dec 22 23:26:22 according to some extra old acorn docs , fpa should be the 'old version' of arm fpu so I guess I'll stick with fpe3 or maverick, right ? Dec 22 23:26:30 anybody with experience with that? :/ Dec 22 23:43:18 anybody useing latest android? Dec 22 23:48:19 brian__: not me, you are ? Dec 22 23:50:47 installing now Dec 22 23:50:56 =brian Dec 22 23:51:39 maybe the keyboard is in there Dec 22 23:52:37 good to know Dec 22 23:52:59 i will report in about 10 minuits Dec 22 23:54:32 I'll be here I think Dec 22 23:55:21 installed,,now to have a look Dec 22 23:55:24 btw. guys at #edev are figuring out which FPU standard is best with softfloat, I'll post it here then if someone cares for it Dec 22 23:56:09 i mess up Dec 22 23:56:15 why so ? Dec 22 23:56:20 i didnt install qi Dec 22 23:56:28 it needs it ? Dec 22 23:56:47 well i can modify uboot io think Dec 22 23:57:39 well, I won't test android in near future anyway Dec 22 23:57:42 well i see android on the screen but thats all Dec 22 23:57:57 I think you should let it boot ? Dec 22 23:58:03 ok Dec 22 23:58:48 a pulsating green spot Dec 22 23:58:55 its uyp Dec 22 23:59:16 looks great Dec 22 23:59:39 lag ? Dec 23 00:01:01 keyboard works Dec 23 00:01:48 it already has keyboard? greay Dec 23 00:01:50 great Dec 23 00:02:07 dialer working Dec 23 00:02:21 what about bt and wifi ? Dec 23 00:04:25 on the phone Dec 23 00:04:35 phone works Dec 23 00:08:50 says unable to turn on bluetooth Dec 23 00:09:15 shame Dec 23 00:09:23 hope they'll get it working Dec 23 00:09:27 its a good generic phone os Dec 23 00:10:07 the keyboard is not a full keyboard Dec 23 00:10:19 as far as i can tell so far Dec 23 00:10:43 contacts is empty Dec 23 00:12:45 well good theres finally a keyboard anyway Dec 23 00:12:49 and can you go online on it ? Dec 23 00:12:51 wifi turned on but didnt hook up Dec 23 00:13:04 so the same as any other gui on other distributions Dec 23 00:13:14 keyboard isnt there like a full keyboard Dec 23 00:13:19 so far only iwconfig and udhcpc worked for me Dec 23 00:13:27 ok Dec 23 00:20:31 ok I'm using this configuration for now: Dec 23 00:20:54 CFLAGS="-O3 -march=k8 -funroll-all-loops -ftree-vectorize -pipe" Dec 23 00:20:54 CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS}" Dec 23 00:20:54 ./configure --prefix=/home/jc/hobby/Freerunner/tools/toolchain/root --exec-prefix=/home/jc/hobby/Freerunner/tools/toolchain/root --program-prefix=arm-freerunner- --host=x86_64-pc-linux-gnu --build=x86_64-pc-linux-gnu --target=arm-softfloat-linux-gnueabi --disable-multilib --disable-threads --with-cpu=arm920t --with-abi=aapcs-linux --with-fpu=fpa --with-mode=thumb --with-float=soft-float --enable-__cxa_atexit --enable-target-optspace --disable-bootstrap --enable Dec 23 00:20:55 -languages=c,c++ --disable-win32-registry --with-sysroot=/home/jc/hobby/Freerunner/source/root Dec 23 00:21:09 (gcc) Dec 23 00:32:38 what's the driver used for the touch screen? Dec 23 00:33:19 dunno but if you find out, please lemme know, I'll be building kernel soon too Dec 23 00:41:20 hello .. I need help ... at the site of openmoko said that the battery lasts only one day .. should be done to solve, or is already solved Dec 23 00:42:05 FDOM with stock kernel suspends properly and saves power, afaik Dec 23 00:42:25 lasts more than a day when suspended I think, haven't measured it yet Dec 23 00:44:26 kikesito: a lot of the battery saving stuff still has to be implemented Dec 23 00:44:36 haven't done any testing lately with GSM Dec 23 00:45:01 but with only gps (no gsm or wifi or bluetooth) constantly on (no suspend) you get almost 9hours Dec 23 00:45:22 I'm sure with only gsm and suspend you will get more than a day Dec 23 00:46:35 Zorkman: about the more Dec 23 00:47:01 how much more Dec 23 00:47:03 kikesito: since i haven't used gsm lately it's hard to estimate for me Dec 23 00:47:31 i think 1.5->2 days? Dec 23 00:47:36 but that is just a guess Dec 23 00:48:53 Zorkman: thanks Dec 23 00:49:00 np Dec 23 01:03:59 So... Is there any way to make ReMoko work over WiFi or USB or some other protocol than BT? Dec 23 01:10:37 Digital_Pioneer: good question...have you asked on the lists yet? Dec 23 01:10:45 UndrWater: Nope. Dec 23 01:11:44 having trouble with bluetooth Digital_Pioneer ? Dec 23 01:11:54 jonsmith1982: I have no BT receiver. Dec 23 01:13:14 ah, i couldn't get bluetooth to connect either on windows nor linux, same error. Dec 23 01:13:28 cannot get information on device. Dec 23 01:22:06 does anybody speak Vietnamese here ? Dec 23 01:23:03 is there a page all about the alsa mixer settings for the neo1973 ? Dec 23 01:23:14 there's so many controls, its a nightmare Dec 23 01:26:16 use the ubuntu live cd an see if it will hold its little hand Dec 23 01:26:28 on bittorrent Dec 23 02:24:51 yea qtx is better **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Dec 23 02:59:57 2008