**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jan 11 02:59:57 2009
Jan 11 03:06:32 <rooly> bored bored bored
Jan 11 03:11:37 <Toaster`> gurugentoo: sorry for the delay.  Well I think have my wpa_supplicant set up right (wpa_passphrasse and all that) but I can't connect to my WPA AP.
Jan 11 03:13:00 <khaije1> you guys seen this: http://www.wired.com/video/neo-freerunner/1813637570 
Jan 11 03:13:14 <khaije1> from a few months ago
Jan 11 03:13:21 <khaije1> (sept)
Jan 11 03:15:39 <rooly> not sure, khaije1
Jan 11 03:20:07 <Digital-Pioneer> OK, how do I turn bluetooth on so I can see a node with hciconfig -a?
Jan 11 03:20:45 <Slaxxer> wassa
Jan 11 03:21:32 <rooly> nm
Jan 11 03:21:35 <rooly> just BORED OUT OF MY MIND
Jan 11 03:21:43 <rooly> i'm so bored that i installed om2008.12
Jan 11 03:21:51 <rooly> since...i have a phone and all now...
Jan 11 03:22:09 <rooly> and to think...2008.12 actually seems to be a reliable phone
Jan 11 03:22:14 <rooly> it can do all the things i want
Jan 11 03:22:33 <rooly> make phone calls, receive them, send and recieve sms, and even do speaker phone
Jan 11 03:22:41 <rooly> now i just gotta get gprs working
Jan 11 03:24:16 <rooly> and a bluetooth keyboard thingy
Jan 11 03:24:28 <Slaxxer> told u
Jan 11 03:24:41 <rooly> no you didn't
Jan 11 03:24:48 <Slaxxer> huh uh
Jan 11 03:25:12 <Slaxxer> u wouldnt let go though
Jan 11 03:25:20 <Slaxxer> devoted
Jan 11 03:25:30 <Kamping_Kaiser> rooly, what were you running?
Jan 11 03:25:36 <rooly> qt 4.3.2
Jan 11 03:25:37 <Slaxxer> shr works better than .12
Jan 11 03:25:40 <rooly> which i prefer
Jan 11 03:25:52 <rooly> because...its...finished
Jan 11 03:26:00 <Slaxxer> almost
Jan 11 03:26:11 <rooly> yeah
Jan 11 03:26:14 <rooly> moreso than asu
Jan 11 03:26:30 <rooly> which, mind you, is going to be dropped sooner or later in favor of something fso-based
Jan 11 03:26:33 <Slaxxer> can i boot through usb cable on a microsd card reader?
Jan 11 03:27:02 <Slaxxer> i made a cable
Jan 11 03:27:22 <rooly> iunno
Jan 11 03:27:52 <mwester-laptop> No.
Jan 11 03:27:57 <Slaxxer> ok
Jan 11 03:28:23 <mwester-laptop> neither u-boot nor Qi support mass storage on USB.
Jan 11 03:28:24 <rooly> where was that bluetooth app that let you connect a bt keyboard to asu
Jan 11 03:28:35 <Slaxxer> can i read an microsd card throung that cable?
Jan 11 03:29:10 <Slaxxer> should be able to do that?
Jan 11 03:29:22 <Kamping_Kaiser> is the USB on a freerunner a  usb host?
Jan 11 03:29:30 <henk> Kamping_Kaiser: it can be
Jan 11 03:29:31 <rooly> it ccan be set to host mode
Jan 11 03:29:37 <Kamping_Kaiser> sweeeet.
Jan 11 03:29:38 <rooly> but not by default
Jan 11 03:29:42 <Kamping_Kaiser> thanks blokes.
Jan 11 03:29:57 <rooly> check opkg.org for a useful app regarding usb host-mode
Jan 11 03:29:59 <mwester-laptop> You can do that, but you have to follow the wiki to put the usb in host mode and have the correct usb/scsi driver modules loaded.
Jan 11 03:30:15 <Slaxxer> then a usb keyboard is usable long as u dont use a lighted one?
Jan 11 03:30:44 <rooly> theoretically, the FR's usb can output enough to power another FR for a short while
Jan 11 03:30:58 <mwester-laptop> It's supposed to work, people have done it.  No guarantee that any particular distro can gracefully handle that, though...
Jan 11 03:31:01 <rooly> so it should be able to power even a lit usb keyboard
Jan 11 03:31:18 <Slaxxer> not very long
Jan 11 03:31:35 <Slaxxer> unless u build a y cable
Jan 11 03:31:46 <mwester-laptop> that's the way to do it.
Jan 11 03:31:51 <mwester-laptop> or use a powered hub.
Jan 11 03:33:08 <rooly> mwester-laptop: was the wifi management in exposure so broken that they just HAD to take it out?
Jan 11 03:33:16 <Dave> hey rooly
Jan 11 03:33:20 <rooly> yo dave
Jan 11 03:33:24 <rooly> still here?
Jan 11 03:33:25 <Dave> oh and rooly, I've done that
Jan 11 03:33:34 <rooly> done what
Jan 11 03:33:36 <mwester-laptop> rooly: don't know what/why.
Jan 11 03:33:39 <Dave> the freerunner-freerunner kinkiness
Jan 11 03:33:43 <Dave> over usb
Jan 11 03:33:44 <rooly> oh...sexy
Jan 11 03:33:47 <Dave> uhh yeah
Jan 11 03:33:48 <rooly> did you video it?
Jan 11 03:33:53 <Dave> haha no
Jan 11 03:33:56 <rooly> dude
Jan 11 03:33:56 <Dave> Maybe I should have...
Jan 11 03:33:58 <rooly> tits or gtfo
Jan 11 03:34:05 <Slaxxer> where are the little mokos at?
Jan 11 03:34:07 <mwester-laptop> Dave plugs freerunners into many unusual things -- stereos even.
Jan 11 03:34:22 <Dave> Hey :(
Jan 11 03:34:35 <Dave> Are you going to mock me for that for the rest of my days, Wester? ;)
Jan 11 03:34:40 <mwester-laptop> yep! :P
Jan 11 03:34:42 <Dave> Though, it was pretty funny
Jan 11 03:34:51 <Dave> Though scared the crap out of me when something popped
Jan 11 03:34:51 <rooly> whats this about a stereo
Jan 11 03:34:57 * Dave hides
Jan 11 03:35:10 <Slaxxer> sound?
Jan 11 03:35:30 <Slaxxer> did it fry the stero too?
Jan 11 03:35:44 * rooly still finds his favorite apps to be openvibe and openmoocow
Jan 11 03:36:03 <Slaxxer> openly share dave
Jan 11 03:36:05 <Dave> rooly, then you'll appreciate my omc2 :)
Jan 11 03:36:15 <Dave> When I get around to releasing
Jan 11 03:36:21 <rooly> thats yours?
Jan 11 03:36:28 <Dave> No, but it was inspired by me.
Jan 11 03:36:49 * rooly noticed dillo-ssl was put into opkg.org
Jan 11 03:36:50 <rooly> nice
Jan 11 03:36:56 <Dave> yep!
Jan 11 03:38:27 <rooly> so
Jan 11 03:38:28 <rooly> zomg
Jan 11 03:38:30 <rooly> whats that about
Jan 11 03:39:43 <Slaxxer> i tried it
Jan 11 03:40:09 <Slaxxer> fat software
Jan 11 03:40:44 <rooly> well, of course
Jan 11 03:40:47 <rooly> its java after all
Jan 11 03:40:52 <Slaxxer> is dillo the better browser?
Jan 11 03:41:28 <rooly> dillo is to fast as sun is to hot
Jan 11 03:41:41 <Slaxxer> yay
Jan 11 03:42:35 <rooly> but
Jan 11 03:42:38 <rooly> dillo has its problems
Jan 11 03:43:36 <mwester-laptop> but -- does it run on android?
Jan 11 03:44:05 * mwester-laptop goes trolling ;)
Jan 11 03:44:31 <rooly> no, of course not
Jan 11 03:44:32 <jc> I have some radical numbers for you
Jan 11 03:44:44 <rooly> i have some irrational numbers for you!
Jan 11 03:44:49 * raster slaps mwester-laptop with a cybord
Jan 11 03:44:50 * raster slaps mwester-laptop with a cyborg
Jan 11 03:45:12 <jc> compiling busybox for thumb decreases its code size by 26% as opposed to arm
Jan 11 03:45:19 * mwester-laptop sends raster some more electric sheep to count.
Jan 11 03:45:30 <jc> also, compilling a hello world and counting its main function, its about 57% improvement
Jan 11 03:45:46 <jc> interested in more details ?
Jan 11 03:45:54 <raster> jc:  but does it blend?
Jan 11 03:45:54 <mwester-laptop> jc: Yeah - does it work?
Jan 11 03:46:10 * raster counts -1 sheep
Jan 11 03:46:11 <jc> we were working on it for about 2 hours on #gentoo-openmoko
Jan 11 03:46:14 <jc> great deal of fun
Jan 11 03:46:15 <jc> facts:
Jan 11 03:46:18 <jc> lets see the hello world
Jan 11 03:46:21 * mwester-laptop can get 100% size decrease, if you don't mind that the resulting binary doesn't actually run!
Jan 11 03:46:33 <raster> jc:  even if code is smaller
Jan 11 03:46:35 <raster> is it faster
Jan 11 03:46:36 <jc> I have a simple program:
Jan 11 03:46:39 <raster> ios it stable
Jan 11 03:46:40 <raster> ...
Jan 11 03:46:42 <jc>  cat hello.c
Jan 11 03:46:42 <jc> #include <stdio.h>
Jan 11 03:46:42 <jc> int main(void)
Jan 11 03:46:42 <jc> {
Jan 11 03:46:42 <jc>    printf("Hello, World !");
Jan 11 03:46:43 <jc> }
Jan 11 03:46:59 <raster> as such it really is just a compile optinj so its kind of moot other than playing with
Jan 11 03:47:03 <jc> then I do:
Jan 11 03:47:05 <jc> gcc -mthumb -o hello-thumb.o hello.c
Jan 11 03:47:08 <jc> then:
Jan 11 03:47:19 <jc> gcc -marm -o hello-arm.o hello.c
Jan 11 03:47:34 <jc> then I strip them both
Jan 11 03:47:35 <raster> umm
Jan 11 03:47:42 <raster> why the .o?
Jan 11 03:47:47 <jc> ls shows no difference at all
Jan 11 03:47:53 <raster> u produced an actual executable
Jan 11 03:47:58 <jc> but thats probably just cuz theyr padded
Jan 11 03:47:59 <raster> making it a .o.. is misleading
Jan 11 03:48:00 <raster> :)
Jan 11 03:48:02 <jc> lets see disassembly
Jan 11 03:48:04 <jc> the good part
Jan 11 03:48:07 <jc> main function
Jan 11 03:48:09 <raster> no ls will just round up
Jan 11 03:48:18 <raster> and the fs will show # of blocks
Jan 11 03:48:25 <raster> use stat and u'll get real size
Jan 11 03:48:40 <jc> oh crap, i stripped them
Jan 11 03:48:58 <jc> raster: I was comparing size in bytes
Jan 11 03:49:13 <raster> not incredibly useful
Jan 11 03:49:25 <jc> moving on
Jan 11 03:49:25 <raster>  have u compared runtime ram usage and sped
Jan 11 03:49:27 <raster> speed
Jan 11 03:49:29 <jc> guess which is which
Jan 11 03:49:30 <jc> 000083d4 <main>:
Jan 11 03:49:30 <jc>     83d4:	e1a0c00d 	mov	ip, sp
Jan 11 03:49:30 <jc>     83d8:	e92dd800 	push	{fp, ip, lr, pc}
Jan 11 03:49:30 <jc>     83dc:	e24cb004 	sub	fp, ip, #4	; 0x4
Jan 11 03:49:30 <jc>     83e0:	e59f0004 	ldr	r0, [pc, #4]	; 83ec <main+0x18>
Jan 11 03:49:32 <jc>     83e4:	ebffffc5 	bl	8300 <_init+0x44>
Jan 11 03:49:34 <jc>     83e8:	e89da800 	ldm	sp, {fp, sp, pc}
Jan 11 03:49:36 <jc>     83ec:	0000847c 	.word	0x0000847c
Jan 11 03:49:38 <raster> in fact speed is probably your biggest factor to worry about
Jan 11 03:49:41 <jc> 000083d8 <main>:
Jan 11 03:49:42 <jc>     83d8:	b580      	push	{r7, lr}
Jan 11 03:49:42 <raster> it is at least the same?
Jan 11 03:49:44 <jc>     83da:	af00      	add	r7, sp, #0
Jan 11 03:49:46 <jc>     83dc:	4b02      	ldr	r3, [pc, #8]	(83e8 <main+0x10>)
Jan 11 03:49:48 <jc>     83de:	1c18      	adds	r0, r3, #0
Jan 11 03:49:50 <jc>     83e0:	f7ff ff8e 	bl	8300 <_init+0x44>
Jan 11 03:49:52 <jc>     83e4:	46bd      	mov	sp, r7
Jan 11 03:49:54 <jc>     83e6:	bd80      	pop	{r7, pc}
Jan 11 03:49:56 <jc>     83e8:	00008478 	.word	0x00008478
Jan 11 03:49:56 <mwester-laptop> Actually the OE folks have been working on making thumb available for some images; the end figures are less dramatic for real-world code, but it works for most packages. 
Jan 11 03:50:00 <jc> which is thumb of these two? ;)
Jan 11 03:50:07 <jc> first one is arm, second one is thumb
Jan 11 03:50:17 <jc> it would SEEM the thumb one is bigger
Jan 11 03:50:22 <jc> but look at the middle paragraph
Jan 11 03:50:26 <jc> those are the actual bytes
Jan 11 03:50:33 <jc> lets count them
Jan 11 03:51:14 <jc> I see I was off before
Jan 11 03:51:23 <jc> arm one has 28, am I counting correctly ?
Jan 11 03:51:59 <jc> thumb one has 20
Jan 11 03:52:04 <jc> yeah that seems more like it
Jan 11 03:52:06 <jc> so it was less
Jan 11 03:52:18 <jc> way less
Jan 11 03:52:22 <jc> but still its faster
Jan 11 03:52:46 <jc> sdram has 16 bit data bus afaik
Jan 11 03:52:56 <jc> that means one memory cycle per one thumb instruction
Jan 11 03:53:02 <jc> (most instructions)
Jan 11 03:53:22 <jc> lets see busybox then
Jan 11 03:53:40 <raster> get some meaningful benchmarks
Jan 11 03:53:41 <jc> arm is 826524
Jan 11 03:53:50 <jc> thumb is 613532
Jan 11 03:53:59 <jc> I can't *run* the thumb one, it segfaults
Jan 11 03:54:05 <raster> HAHAHAHAHAHHAA
Jan 11 03:54:12 <jc> thats cuz of a bad choice of ABI in the current gentoo stage3 image
Jan 11 03:54:13 * raster hi-5's mwester-laptop 
Jan 11 03:54:25 <raster> small.. but doesnt work
Jan 11 03:54:26 <raster> :)
Jan 11 03:54:34 <jc> whatever
Jan 11 03:54:43 <Slaxxer> lol
Jan 11 03:54:46 <jc> live happily ever after with your arm blobs :0
Jan 11 03:54:47 <jc> :)
Jan 11 03:55:01 <raster> my working arm blobs
Jan 11 03:55:03 <raster> :)
Jan 11 03:55:12 <jc> our thumb ones will be working soon too
Jan 11 03:55:13 <jc> on gentoo
Jan 11 03:55:31 <Slaxxer> might be 27% faster
Jan 11 03:55:34 <jc> we need to bootstrap everything from stage1 to be aapcs abi
Jan 11 03:55:47 <jc> and a lot smaller, thats for sure
Jan 11 03:55:54 <jc> aapcs allows mixing arm and thumb
Jan 11 03:56:30 <jc> so packages that have for example some assembly optimizations and are not thumb aware can be still compiled as arm and run properly
Jan 11 03:56:36 <jc> I'm thinking mplayer, ffmpeg and such
Jan 11 03:57:32 <raster> reminds me.. need to build all the dev tools
Jan 11 03:57:39 <raster> time to do some neon mojo
Jan 11 03:57:53 <mwester-laptop> jc: thumb works; if you poke around the dev branch in the OE repo you should be able to figure out what packages it doesn't yet work with.  I thought someone got it working with busybox.
Jan 11 03:58:20 <jc> I'm talking about gentoo
Jan 11 03:58:29 <mwester-laptop> I realize that.
Jan 11 03:58:34 <jc> there it should work regardless of patches
Jan 11 03:58:40 <jc> its just about cflags...
Jan 11 03:58:49 <mwester-laptop> But I thought that perhaps you might like to not have to re-invent the wheel, is all.
Jan 11 03:59:07 <jc> do you use softfloat at least ?
Jan 11 03:59:15 <mwester-laptop> And, no, it's not about cflags -- it's about packages that (for example) use inline assembly.
Jan 11 03:59:16 <raster> mwester-laptop: it's gentoo - they like to do things the hard way. :) it's part of the charm of gentoo
Jan 11 03:59:20 <raster> :)
Jan 11 03:59:35 <raster> like wait 2 days for their os to install as it's busy building itself
Jan 11 03:59:36 <raster> :)
Jan 11 03:59:48 <raster> to each - their own
Jan 11 03:59:51 <mwester-laptop> There are some that just don't work, and IIRC it might be bugs in the toolchain.
Jan 11 03:59:55 <jc> raster: yeah we like it the hard way, reinventing the wheel
Jan 11 04:00:01 <mwester-laptop> And there are some that just don't seem to perform correctly.
Jan 11 04:00:05 <jc> raster: like writing our own windows managers and widget toolkits
Jan 11 04:00:10 * rooly snickers
Jan 11 04:00:29 <jc> oh what the hell anyway, I'll just keep it to myself
Jan 11 04:00:58 <mwester-laptop> If you can figure out what others have done, perhaps you can focus on the problem code, and get that working.
Jan 11 04:01:05 <mwester-laptop> but what do I know?
Jan 11 04:01:27 <jc> point being
Jan 11 04:01:32 <raster> jc: i am not favorable to gentoo users. they have become one of the biggest pains i have experienced as a developer. sorry to say
Jan 11 04:01:37 <jc> packages that don't work in thumb can be still compiled as arm
Jan 11 04:01:47 <mwester-laptop> Exactly. That's what OE has done.
Jan 11 04:01:56 <raster> like "i need hels0rz! my buildz i5 b0rk3n! helps!"
Jan 11 04:02:02 <raster> when they just go "emerge BLAH"
Jan 11 04:02:08 <raster> and come running to the upsteram developers for help
Jan 11 04:02:24 <raster> as they think they are eleet and are so cool because they compile their stuff
Jan 11 04:02:27 <jc> raster: the same thing I see with ubuntu people on #gentoo
Jan 11 04:02:31 <raster> but they havent the first clue when somethnig goes wrong
Jan 11 04:02:49 * rooly likes messing around with compiling
Jan 11 04:02:56 <rooly> but only when its worthwhile
Jan 11 04:02:59 * mwester-laptop removes raster from his "auto-ignore-hax0rz" list...
Jan 11 04:03:01 <raster> they prefer to pastebin compiler output and have the developers read it for them and say "see that line theree "error - blah.h not found... maybe thats the problem?"
Jan 11 04:03:06 <rooly> as in, not compiling my os for myself
Jan 11 04:03:17 <jc> raster: whell do you think I did this to show how l33t am I ?
Jan 11 04:03:25 <raster> no
Jan 11 04:03:51 <raster> but i did accurately state that genoo does things the hard way
Jan 11 04:04:03 <raster> that is is how they like to do it
Jan 11 04:04:09 <raster> they WANT to compile things
Jan 11 04:04:11 <jc> I haven't seen a single bitching haxor wannabe from the gentoo community as you describe, but many ubuntu ones
Jan 11 04:04:15 <balleyne> question about Masquering support for connecting to the internet through a PC via USB. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking#Masquerading_support talks about where the options are "found" but I've no idea where to find them... where should I be looking?
Jan 11 04:04:17 <raster> they all keep saing "i am using gentoo to learn about linux"
Jan 11 04:04:19 <jc> maybe its given by different environment
Jan 11 04:04:24 <raster> its accurate - its what they WANT
Jan 11 04:04:42 <raster> but of course - you want to have a go at me for being a software developer and writing code that gosh.. may COMPETe with other software
Jan 11 04:04:51 <jc> raster: but gentoo does simplify compilling a lot
Jan 11 04:05:09 <jc> you just tweak a few stuff and you have binaries with support only for stuff you actually need
Jan 11 04:05:30 <raster> as i havent gone and just decided to never write anythgni because sosmoene did something vaguely similar somewhere else (whihc is completely wrong - if u knew anything about e - it bears very little similarity to almost anything and has reasons for being done)
Jan 11 04:05:41 <mwester-laptop> balleyne: that's your kernel config, in the event that your distro has a kernel that is missing that stuff.
Jan 11 04:05:54 <raster> so dont mind me while i now have a good go at gentoo.
Jan 11 04:06:04 <mwester-laptop> Most distros have iptables and all that already built-in or installable via kernel modules.
Jan 11 04:06:20 <jc> I don't know squat about e
Jan 11 04:06:41 <jc> only thing I heard about its philosophy is its supposed to be eyecandy somehow
Jan 11 04:07:08 <raster> ok - so let's agree - i know more about gentoo than you do of e :)
Jan 11 04:07:25 <jc> thats probably true
Jan 11 04:07:31 * mwester-laptop things thumb is quite promising, but thinks that its counter-productive to have two different communities not cooperating on sorting out the last issues with thumb mode.
Jan 11 04:07:40 <jc> you definitely know more about e than I do
Jan 11 04:07:47 <raster> and if you want to have a go at me for writing software and giving it away for free with no strings attached - then you'll very likely have me have a go at you
Jan 11 04:07:49 <balleyne> mwester-laptop: ok, thanks. turns out I just needed to run some iptables commands
Jan 11 04:07:51 <jc> so I guess you have your good reasons
Jan 11 04:07:53 <rooly> he better sure as hell know more...
Jan 11 04:08:10 <raster> and i've been helping gentoo users read their compiler output for many many many years
Jan 11 04:08:24 <jc> rooly: I know he develops it, my point
Jan 11 04:08:26 <raster> i have respect for gentoo devs
Jan 11 04:08:29 <raster> its hardy work
Jan 11 04:08:31 <raster> vapier is amazing
Jan 11 04:08:36 <raster> err hard work
Jan 11 04:08:46 <jc> I think I remember him from our lists
Jan 11 04:09:03 <raster> its a hard job to keep up with all the devs out there
Jan 11 04:09:13 <mwester-laptop> it might be hardy work too, if it can handle the colder growing zones ;)
Jan 11 04:09:16 <raster> i have talked with him often
Jan 11 04:09:20 <raster> he knows his stuff
Jan 11 04:09:24 <jc> I don't do much help usually, so I'm pretty happy that I came with something possibly radically enhancing experience on fr
Jan 11 04:09:42 <raster> thats cool
Jan 11 04:09:44 <jc> and here we go again.. somebody already came up with it
Jan 11 04:09:47 <raster> but dont get so excited about it
Jan 11 04:09:50 <jc> even though its not mainstream
Jan 11 04:10:00 <raster> i have learnt in the past
Jan 11 04:10:14 <raster> compiler options will almost always - in the real world, net you very small changes/gains
Jan 11 04:10:34 <raster> you can sit and argue over -O3 vs -O2 vs -Os vs -funroll-loops etc.
Jan 11 04:10:38 <mwester-laptop> thumb has more promise than most, though.
Jan 11 04:10:46 <jc> well arm has two instruction sets, this is picking one over the othetr
Jan 11 04:10:52 <jc> a HUGE difference
Jan 11 04:10:59 <jc> maybe for good, maybe for baad
Jan 11 04:11:16 <jc> smaller instructions but possibly more of them
Jan 11 04:11:16 <raster> but in the end there is normally a very simple judiciously used set that are probably universal (to a given target)
Jan 11 04:11:33 <jc> I proved that busybox is smaller when in thumb than in arm.. so the 'smaller' factor is more significant than the 'more of them' factor
Jan 11 04:11:38 <raster> and most other stuff is quibbling over a few % - unless you literally go upsteram and fix algorithms.. or work on some inner-loop magic with simd asm (iwmmx/neon etc.)
Jan 11 04:11:39 <raster> :)
Jan 11 04:11:57 <jc> there WERE more thumb instructions than arm ones in the main for hello world, but overall, it was a good deal smaller
Jan 11 04:12:03 <raster> jc:  smaller is good
Jan 11 04:12:06 <raster> it will use less ram
Jan 11 04:12:11 <jc> yeah
Jan 11 04:12:12 <raster> tho try it on more than busybox
Jan 11 04:12:15 <jc> and more importantly
Jan 11 04:12:16 <raster> try it on glibc
Jan 11 04:12:20 <raster>  and a whole bunch of things
Jan 11 04:12:22 <jc> I'll try it on the qwhole system
Jan 11 04:12:25 <raster> yup
Jan 11 04:12:28 <raster> also
Jan 11 04:12:28 <jc> more importantly
Jan 11 04:12:35 <jc> instructions are mostly 16 bits
Jan 11 04:12:35 <raster> produce a jffs2 image of arm vs thumb
Jan 11 04:12:38 <raster> and see the difference
Jan 11 04:12:41 <jc> one memory fetch cycle per instruction
Jan 11 04:12:44 <raster> as such jfffs2 is a compressed fs
Jan 11 04:12:49 <raster> thumb may not compress as well
Jan 11 04:12:56 <raster> oh sure
Jan 11 04:13:01 <raster>  and u fetch less ram
Jan 11 04:13:05 <mwester-laptop> http://projects.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/openembedded-devel/2008-October/006718.html
Jan 11 04:13:06 <jc> see this:
Jan 11 04:13:07 <jc> <jc> guess which is which
Jan 11 04:13:07 <jc> <jc> 000083d4 <main>:
Jan 11 04:13:07 <jc> <jc>     83d4: e1a0c00d  mov ip, sp
Jan 11 04:13:07 <jc> <jc>     83d8: e92dd800  push {fp, ip, lr, pc}
Jan 11 04:13:07 <jc> <jc>     83dc: e24cb004  sub fp, ip, #4 ; 0x4
Jan 11 04:13:09 <jc> <jc>     83e0: e59f0004  ldr r0, [pc, #4] ; 83ec <main+0x18>
Jan 11 04:13:11 <jc> <jc>     83e4: ebffffc5  bl 8300 <_init+0x44>
Jan 11 04:13:13 <jc> <jc>     83e8: e89da800  ldm sp, {fp, sp, pc}
Jan 11 04:13:13 <raster> but - you may actualyl make some loops longer and slower
Jan 11 04:13:15 <jc> <jc>     83ec: 0000847c  .word 0x0000847c
Jan 11 04:13:15 <mwester-laptop> spam!
Jan 11 04:13:17 <jc> <raster> in fact speed is probably your biggest factor to worry about
Jan 11 04:13:19 <jc> <jc> 000083d8 <main>:
Jan 11 04:13:19 <raster> as the instructions are simplified
Jan 11 04:13:21 <jc> <jc>     83d8: b580       push {r7, lr}
Jan 11 04:13:23 <jc> <jc>     83da: af00       add r7, sp, #0
Jan 11 04:13:23 <raster> you have a very simple case
Jan 11 04:13:25 <jc> <jc>     83dc: 4b02       ldr r3, [pc, #8] (83e8 <main+0x10>)
Jan 11 04:13:27 <jc> <jc>     83de: 1c18       adds r0, r3, #0
Jan 11 04:13:31 <jc> <jc>     83e0: f7ff ff8e  bl 8300 <_init+0x44>
Jan 11 04:13:33 <jc> <jc>     83e4: 46bd       mov sp, r7
Jan 11 04:13:35 <jc> <jc>     83e6: bd80       pop {r7, pc}
Jan 11 04:13:37 <jc> <jc>     83e8: 00008478  .word 0x00008478
Jan 11 04:13:39 <jc> the middle paragraph are raw bytes
Jan 11 04:13:41 <jc> they look pretty random to me
Jan 11 04:13:43 <jc> compression shouldn't make much difference
Jan 11 04:13:48 <rooly> rafb.net/paste
Jan 11 04:13:50 <rooly> next time
Jan 11 04:13:50 <jc> raster: yes thats what I'm afraid
Jan 11 04:14:00 <raster> as i said
Jan 11 04:14:02 <jc> for some code, actually ARM is MUCH more powerfull
Jan 11 04:14:07 <raster> dont get exited over such a small example
Jan 11 04:14:08 <raster> :)
Jan 11 04:14:12 <raster> yup
Jan 11 04:14:13 * mwester-laptop watches an important URL scroll off the screen due to the flood, gets totally p***ed off, and leaves this pointless discussion with jc, who clearly doesn't want to communicate.
Jan 11 04:14:18 <jc> that it outweights the smaller thumb by lot
Jan 11 04:14:20 <raster> thats why i am saying to temper your enthusiasm
Jan 11 04:14:32 <raster> i know that i need to put neon asm into evas
Jan 11 04:14:35 <jc> mwester: right, sorry
Jan 11 04:14:42 <raster> and probably put in some arm asm for preloads to get some speedups
Jan 11 04:15:02 <raster> and that may negate anything thumb can do (and give a good 10 ro 20% speedup with preloads)
Jan 11 04:15:22 <jc> raster: still you can mix thumb and arm even in a single program
Jan 11 04:15:29 <jc> I saw that in the busybox binary disassembly
Jan 11 04:15:39 <raster> jc:  see mwester-laptop's url post
Jan 11 04:15:57 <jc> functions that were mostly just calling external libraries were actually compiled as arm  to save a mode switch
Jan 11 04:16:53 <raster> yes
Jan 11 04:16:55 <raster> see that url
Jan 11 04:16:56 <raster> :)
Jan 11 04:17:07 <raster> you get some gains
Jan 11 04:17:14 <jc> mwester-laptop: sorry, missed it, thanks
Jan 11 04:17:21 <raster> in size and seemingly speed in some tests
Jan 11 04:17:25 <raster> but less than 25% or 50%
Jan 11 04:17:26 <raster> by a lot
Jan 11 04:17:36 <raster> and you get added complexity
Jan 11 04:17:45 <jc> damn thats not too much
Jan 11 04:17:47 <raster> the q is - is the small gain worth the complexity
Jan 11 04:18:04 <jc> just 9% in python, thats awful
Jan 11 04:18:11 <raster> so speedups of 9-16% there in 2 cases
Jan 11 04:18:15 <raster> tho dubious as kernel changed
Jan 11 04:18:19 <jc> well in gentoo, its no complexity to specify -mthumb instead of -marm in cflags
Jan 11 04:18:22 <raster> and average size saving is 12%
Jan 11 04:18:24 <jc> but otherwise, maybe
Jan 11 04:18:39 <raster> oh its complexity knowing what apps/libs use arm asm
Jan 11 04:18:42 <raster> and need special care
Jan 11 04:19:08 <jc> when it fails during build, compile it with -marm next time
Jan 11 04:19:13 <raster> now it adds complexity onto upsteram to split code so you can sanly use thumb like you want to without special casing
Jan 11 04:19:29 <raster> also you pay a price in cycles on mode switch
Jan 11 04:19:38 <raster> if you switch too much you will pay a perf hit
Jan 11 04:19:42 <raster> anyway
Jan 11 04:19:42 <jc> as I said in the busybox example
Jan 11 04:19:47 <raster> theres a lot to consider
Jan 11 04:19:54 <raster> its not as simple as it looks
Jan 11 04:19:55 <raster> :)
Jan 11 04:19:57 <raster> gotta run
Jan 11 04:19:59 <jc> when a function was short and was just calling a 32bit external library, it was compiled as arm
Jan 11 04:20:01 <raster> stuff to do before stuff closes
Jan 11 04:20:02 <raster> bbl
Jan 11 04:20:03 <raster> :)
Jan 11 04:20:11 <jc> for example all usage printfs
Jan 11 04:20:14 <jc> ok, bye
Jan 11 04:23:00 <balleyne> the Getting Started guide says "Try checking the .conf files in the /etc/opkg/ directory. If you see four URLs pointing at http://buildhost.openmoko.org/ , this is your problem. " What's the solution? What should the URLs be?
Jan 11 04:23:15 <balleyne> (this is about trying opkg upgrades)
Jan 11 04:23:20 <rooly> yeah
Jan 11 04:23:35 <rooly> it should be http://downloads.openmoko.org/<some other stuff>
Jan 11 04:24:04 <Slaxxer> flash shr or 2008.12
Jan 11 04:24:28 <balleyne> rooly: thanks
Jan 11 04:32:23 <balleyne> rooly: made the change, is it expected that 'opkg upgrade' will return 'Nothing to be done' when I've got a new phone and I've never run an upgrade before?
Jan 11 04:34:09 <rooly> sure
Jan 11 04:34:14 <rooly> because you haven't run opkg update
Jan 11 04:35:51 <balleyne> rooly: sorry, I run `opkg update` then `opkg upgrade`, after changing the URLs to downloads.openmoko.org... still says nothing to be done. Is that normal? or is it more likely that I've done something wrong?
Jan 11 04:35:55 <Dave> registeres
Jan 11 04:37:14 <rooly> whats your opkg update output
Jan 11 04:37:33 <rooly> make sure there are no error 404's when downloading the package.gz's
Jan 11 04:37:38 <balleyne> rooly: "Nothing to be done"
Jan 11 04:38:08 <balleyne> rooly: ah, yeah, there are. (Getting Started said not to worry about 404s for sigs.. but there are for the Package.gzs too).
Jan 11 04:38:20 <rooly> then you have the wrong download locations
Jan 11 04:39:33 <balleyne> rooly: I'm thinking I have the URLs wrong.. i have http://downloads.openmoko.org/daily-feed/all/Packages.gz (just change the top level domain). I suppose that should be http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases... or some other subdirectory?
Jan 11 04:39:36 <rooly> go look inside the http://downloads.openmoko.org/ directory and find the correct paths
Jan 11 04:40:18 <rooly> probably, balleyne
Jan 11 04:51:50 <Dave> :)
Jan 11 05:27:37 <balleyne> wow. that was confusing. so, my freerunner ships with an unsupported distribution (Om 2007.2)? I've got opkg update working now with the scaredy cat repo. Getting Started guide did NOT help with that (editing now)
Jan 11 05:32:23 <brian__> install shr or 2008.12
Jan 11 05:33:39 <brian__> prolly shr but since u are just getting your feet wet might as well install a few oss to check em out
Jan 11 05:35:14 <brian__> try qt extended first though
Jan 11 05:35:43 <brian__> 4.4.2
Jan 11 05:36:04 <balleyne> right. I was looking at installing 2008.12 in a bit, now looking at SHR... didn't realize there were so many. thanks
Jan 11 06:26:27 <AntonTakk> cdevel is dead quiet  :-\
Jan 11 06:57:29 <raster> bok
Jan 11 06:57:52 <Tm_T> buk
Jan 11 07:02:00 <Dave> moo
Jan 11 09:25:14 <srdgame> hi all, which layer do you think busybox is?  Application? or Middle-ware?
Jan 11 09:31:16 <henk> both to a certain level i'd say
Jan 11 09:36:20 <srdgame> henk, do you mean that it can be either of them in certain view point?
Jan 11 09:38:17 <henk> yes, but i'm not in any way qualified to say so ;)
Jan 11 09:39:08 <srdgame> henk, could you look at this arch diagram?  
Jan 11 09:39:09 <srdgame> http://linux.chinaunix.net/bbs/attachments/month_0812/20081210_0cbb32138942cb0346f2q0yowIQyQs0Y.jpg
Jan 11 09:41:49 <srdgame> I am not feel good about his diagram.
Jan 11 09:50:05 <slim_> hello all,
Jan 11 09:52:13 <srdgame> slim_, hi
Jan 11 09:52:26 <slim_> hello srdgame 
Jan 11 09:53:25 <srdgame> slim_,  ;-)
Jan 11 09:53:35 <slim_> srdgame:   how are you ?
Jan 11 09:53:55 <slim_> i want to own openmoko :)
Jan 11 09:54:53 <slim_> is openmoko available in china, ?
Jan 11 09:55:17 <srdgame> slim_, yes, in Taiwan I think.
Jan 11 09:55:31 <srdgame> slim_, I am in Beijing, it is not available
Jan 11 09:55:33 <slim_> my friend now in china,
Jan 11 09:55:50 <slim_> srdgame:   how i can buy one ?
Jan 11 09:57:21 <srdgame> I think you could get the information from its website. www.openmoko.com
Jan 11 09:57:29 <srdgame> It has online store
Jan 11 09:57:41 <slim_> thanks srdgame 
Jan 11 09:57:54 <srdgame> slim_,  welcome :-)
Jan 11 09:58:08 <slim_> my friend now in shenzhen
Jan 11 09:58:51 <slim_> is this far from Beijing ?
Jan 11 10:00:15 <srdgame> slim_, yes, it is very far from here.  It costs 24hours by train.  3hours by air
Jan 11 10:00:31 <slim_> this is too far :)
Jan 11 10:01:12 <srdgame> slim_, where are you?
Jan 11 10:01:22 <slim_> srdgame:   now in Egypt
Jan 11 10:02:33 <srdgame> slim_, :-) far far alway from here.
Jan 11 10:02:54 <slim_> yes srdgame :)
Jan 11 10:03:21 <gfather> raster , u there  ? 
Jan 11 10:03:29 <slim_> srdgame:   but one feel that live in china with products i use from there :)
Jan 11 10:48:04 <Bert_2> Hi, can I ask some questions about the different distributions I can run on the Neo Freerunner here or is this strictly about the openmoko distro ?
Jan 11 10:49:01 <gfather> nah , say anything u want 
Jan 11 10:49:12 <Bert_2> okey ;)
Jan 11 10:49:34 <Bert_2> so, openmoko, qtopia and debian seem to be the most usable distros mentioned on the wiki
Jan 11 10:50:04 <gfather> yes , and if u need a more fuctional , use the openmoko fso image 
Jan 11 10:50:08 <Bert_2> but it's not very clear whether they have basic phone functionality and whether the battery lasts more than 1 day
Jan 11 10:50:39 <Bert_2> I read that FSO is just a framework with a dial demo app, has it advanced then ?
Jan 11 10:52:25 <Bert_2> gfather: ???
Jan 11 10:54:11 <henk> Bert_2: 'usable'? i wouldn't really call openmoko's distribution and qtopia 'usable', but it's probably rather that i don't _want_ to use them. at least atm.
Jan 11 10:55:09 <Bert_2> so what distro should I pick henk if I would like to make/receive calls, SMS, use GPS and surf using wifi on the Neo Freerunner ?
Jan 11 10:56:06 <gfather> Bert_2 i told you , use the fso images 
Jan 11 10:56:07 <henk> Bert_2: i'd use one of debian, shr, fso probably
Jan 11 10:56:40 <Bert_2> so FSO is usuably (altough it's all over the wiki that it isn't)
Jan 11 10:56:53 <Bert_2> ?
Jan 11 10:56:53 <henk> Bert_2: it is? where?
Jan 11 10:57:10 * Bert_2 searches the pages where he saw that
Jan 11 10:58:15 <gfather> lool
Jan 11 10:58:32 <gfather> man just use it , if u didnt like it change it , thats what cool about opensourced
Jan 11 10:58:36 <gfather> opensource 
Jan 11 10:59:15 <Bert_2> yeah, but I don't want to try everything I can try :p
Jan 11 10:59:20 <Bert_2> then it's going to take ages 
Jan 11 10:59:32 <Bert_2> ow, I found a comparison table :D
Jan 11 10:59:54 <henk> which is not very informative imho
Jan 11 11:00:22 <Bert_2> well, the table tells me what works and what doesn't
Jan 11 11:00:28 <gfather> Bert_2 all here are reporting that fso is the most functional images , so try them 
Jan 11 11:00:33 <Bert_2> apparently FSO can't do bluetooth, is that correct ?
Jan 11 11:00:49 <Bert_2> yeah, I'll tru FSO when I get my Freerunner :D
Jan 11 11:00:52 <Bert_2> *try
Jan 11 11:00:56 <henk> Bert_2: yes, but most of it is not true, afaik
Jan 11 11:02:15 <Bert_2> okey, so the table say wiki doesn't work and that GPRS and WiFi are not working through UI, but the Wifi part sounds rather silly as you can make a starter for that, right ?
Jan 11 11:02:42 <henk> yes, but there other problems with wifi, kernel-related iirc
Jan 11 11:03:56 <Bert_2> what kind of problems ?
Jan 11 11:04:46 <Bert_2> speed problems or does it stop working ?
Jan 11 11:04:54 <henk> the latter
Jan 11 11:04:54 <lindi-> Bert_2: http://lindi.iki.fi/lindi/cgi-bin/openmoko-bugs.py?q=lindi%0D%0A%28wifi%7Cwlan%29
Jan 11 11:05:57 <Bert_2> and are those getting fixed soon or is the wifi just permanently *BROKEN* for the next months ?
Jan 11 11:08:30 <Bert_2> (sorry for the pile of questions, I'm just very interested in the development of this phone and how the many distros work, the wiki really needs updates)
Jan 11 11:25:15 <jipey> hi guys
Jan 11 11:25:21 <Bert_2> hi
Jan 11 11:25:26 <jipey> I have a small question
Jan 11 11:25:40 <Bert_2> go ahead
Jan 11 11:25:53 <jipey> I'm a new user of openmoko (which is really awesome :) :) :))
Jan 11 11:26:05 <Kamping_Kaiser> :)
Jan 11 11:26:06 <jipey> but I face a freeze somtimes, 
Jan 11 11:26:22 <jipey> when playing with address book for instance
Jan 11 11:26:39 <dns53> have you flashed everything?
Jan 11 11:26:57 <henk> Juice__: what distribution are you talking about.
Jan 11 11:27:06 <jipey> yep, I use openmoko 12 2008
Jan 11 11:27:40 <henk> jipey: and you have flashed the kernel, the rootfs and perhaps also a new u-boot and are starting via the nand uboot?
Jan 11 11:27:57 <jipey> flashed kernel and rootfs, not uboot
Jan 11 11:28:21 <jipey> start is default start, i'm not sure is it nand or something else
Jan 11 11:28:49 <henk> yes, that's nand then.
Jan 11 11:29:16 <jipey> should I flash the old uboot ? is this freeze a known issue to have this openmoko freezing sometimes ? (no black or white screen) 
Jan 11 11:29:20 <dns53> it seems you need to flash uboot or install qi
Jan 11 11:29:37 <henk> jipey: updating uboot helps with some issues.
Jan 11 11:29:58 <dns53> the original one had that bug, that has been fixed for ages
Jan 11 11:30:13 <jipey> wow okay :)
Jan 11 11:30:23 <jipey> thank you very much, I'll do it now :)
Jan 11 11:31:39 <jipey> by the way, what is qi ? another bootloader ?
Jan 11 11:32:44 <henk> yes
Jan 11 11:32:46 <PaulFertser> jipey: Simpler, faster and more robust without some bugs still present in u-boot.
Jan 11 11:33:01 <dns53> yes, it is faster, it will boot of sd card first, then phone, and there is no menu to choose between them
Jan 11 11:33:09 <henk> but you don't get a boot menu, so not really usable for dualboot systems.
Jan 11 11:33:32 <dns53> you dual boot by removing the sd card
Jan 11 11:34:01 <henk> lol, right
Jan 11 11:34:02 <dns53> it boots the sd card if it finds the kernel under /boot on the card
Jan 11 11:35:13 <dns53> you need qi to boot android or you need to work out how to modify the uboot to allow for bigger kernels
Jan 11 11:35:53 <jipey> ok I see
Jan 11 11:37:12 <jipey> I should update uboot of nand flash, never the one in nor flash right ?
Jan 11 11:37:23 <lindi-> jipey: you can't write to NOR
Jan 11 11:37:36 <jipey> :)
Jan 11 11:38:05 <dns53> yeah so you can always go back
Jan 11 11:39:10 <PaulFertser> henk: You can skip a boot possibility in Qi by pressing AUX button!
Jan 11 11:39:29 <henk> PaulFertser: oh? where do you have that info from?
Jan 11 11:39:36 <PaulFertser> sources
Jan 11 11:40:05 <PaulFertser> Do it while the RED led is on. It'll vibrate to indicate that one boot possibility is skipped.
Jan 11 11:49:56 <vmx> PaulFertser: so you can get into a system on the flash, even if there is a system on the sd card without removing the sd card?
Jan 11 11:52:49 <PaulFertser> vmx: yes
Jan 11 11:53:07 <vmx> so is there any reason not so use qi?
Jan 11 11:53:47 <PaulFertser> You can even have several partitions on your SD and keep a separate systems on them. Qi tries to boot from the 1, 2, 3 (primary partitions), then NAND.
Jan 11 11:54:39 <PaulFertser> vmx: Some special testing purposes like lindi-'s probably require a more sophisticated system, but it'd be better done with a minimal kernel and initramfs imo.
Jan 11 11:54:52 <vmx> PaulFertser, how would you choose between 1, 2 and 3?
Jan 11 11:55:18 <dns53> you can modify the uboot menu
Jan 11 11:55:35 <PaulFertser> vmx: It tries to boot from 1, turns the red LED on, you press AUX, it turns off the led, vibrates, tries to boot from the 2nd, turns the LED on, etc.
Jan 11 11:55:47 <PaulFertser> Not a big deal
Jan 11 11:56:08 <vmx> nice
Jan 11 11:56:31 <vmx> "how do you know which one to boot?" - "i can feel it" ;)
Jan 11 11:56:43 <PaulFertser> And with u-boot you have to be always ultra-carefull, watch for consistency, u-boot is a support hell, actually. Qi is always predictable, no environment, no hidden variables, nothing extra.
Jan 11 11:58:21 <PaulFertser> And to fine-tune kernel parameters, just add what extra params you need to /boot/append-GTA02. BTW, Qi supports symlinks.
Jan 11 12:01:33 <dns53> i did notice the symlinks in some of the tar distro releases
Jan 11 12:01:36 <jipey> and boots faster !
Jan 11 12:01:42 <jipey> (with less kernel lines)
Jan 11 12:23:59 <henk> PaulFertser: ah nice. thanks :)
Jan 11 12:25:49 <PaulFertser> henk: you're welcome
Jan 11 13:55:34 <lut4rp> this just hit me - anyone thought of Openmoko + Nokia 5800?
Jan 11 13:58:45 <dns53> what is a 5800 can you flash a new os or does everything need to be signed
Jan 11 14:01:29 <lut4rp> I dont get you're trying to say, but here's what's 5800 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_5800_XpressMusic
Jan 11 14:02:21 <lut4rp> and here's the technical details - http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/5800_XpressMusic
Jan 11 14:02:50 <lut4rp> oops, gotta go for a while.
Jan 11 14:02:51 * SpeedEvil suspects the 'xpressmusic' is the interesting bit, and wouldn't work under OM.
Jan 11 14:03:09 <lut4rp> SpeedEvil, why? what's with the XpressMusic?
Jan 11 14:04:21 <SpeedEvil> I thought tthat was nokias free music phone
Jan 11 14:04:37 <SpeedEvil> (*) Free may have differing meanings.
Jan 11 14:05:05 <lut4rp> nothing to do with the XpressMusic tag.
Jan 11 14:05:11 <SpeedEvil> k
Jan 11 14:05:17 <lut4rp> it just means its 'more' music enabled
Jan 11 14:05:20 <SpeedEvil> ah
Jan 11 14:05:29 <SpeedEvil> As to the rest.
Jan 11 14:05:33 <lut4rp> supports lots of formats, and they give a brilliant earphone in the box
Jan 11 14:05:48 <SpeedEvil> OM barely 'works' on the 'supported' hardware.
Jan 11 14:05:58 <SpeedEvil> Anything else is going to be entirely up to your own efforts.
Jan 11 14:06:01 <lut4rp> yeah, I know.
Jan 11 14:06:16 <lut4rp> but I have this sudden urge to get one and totally destroy it :)
Jan 11 14:06:32 <SpeedEvil> First - can you find out how to reflash it.
Jan 11 14:06:38 <SpeedEvil> Second, can you find a toolchain.
Jan 11 14:06:45 <SpeedEvil> third - are there drivers for all the hardware
Jan 11 14:07:03 <SpeedEvil> fourth - application coding for differing peripherals, ...
Jan 11 14:07:38 <lut4rp> SpeedEvil, I *really* need to run off for a while, I'll be back after an hour or less
Jan 11 14:07:42 <SpeedEvil> wave
Jan 11 14:07:44 <SpeedEvil> good luck
Jan 11 14:07:50 <dns53> there have been ports to other devices, what was the old palm mobile phone?
Jan 11 14:08:04 <SpeedEvil> I think ports is probably a bit strong for most of them.
Jan 11 14:08:15 <SpeedEvil> AIUI, most have been 'I've got it sort-of-working on xxx'
Jan 11 14:23:14 <vanous123> does anyone have an idea who overwrites my  /etc/profile LANG exports in X? Xserver itself?
Jan 11 14:24:53 <quatrox> vanous123: does something modify the file?
Jan 11 14:25:33 <vanous123> quatrox: no, but something exports whole bunch of locale settings while x server starts
Jan 11 14:26:15 <lindi-> vanous123: grep -r LANG /etc
Jan 11 14:26:16 <quatrox> so something overrides LANG env?
Jan 11 14:26:25 <vanous123> quatrox: and it doesn't seem to be coming from the startup scripts in /etc/X..
Jan 11 14:27:21 <vanous123> lindi-: grep -r LANG /etc finds only my entry
Jan 11 14:27:46 <quatrox> vanous123: which distro?
Jan 11 14:27:56 <vanous123> SHR
Jan 11 14:28:16 <lindi-> vanous123: then what is LANG set to under X?
Jan 11 14:28:58 <dns53> would illume set it?
Jan 11 14:29:06 <vanous123> dns53: hmm
Jan 11 14:29:17 <vanous123> dns53: that could be
Jan 11 14:29:27 <quatrox> vanous123: from my ssh: env|grep LANG returns nothing
Jan 11 14:29:38 <quatrox> let me check inside X
Jan 11 14:29:51 <vanous123> inside X its en_EN_UTF
Jan 11 14:29:59 <vanous123> sort of
Jan 11 14:30:08 <lindi-> vanous123: echo $LANG returns that?
Jan 11 14:30:37 <vanous123> en_US.UTF-8
Jan 11 14:31:09 <quatrox> same here
Jan 11 14:37:41 <Shlee> Anyone know much about decompiling a MIPS linux binary?
Jan 11 14:37:59 <lindi-> Shlee: quite a lot
Jan 11 14:39:26 <quatrox> vanous123: I guess something is run when X is started
Jan 11 14:39:43 <quatrox> maybe /usr/lib/python2.5/locale.py
Jan 11 14:39:47 <quatrox> or something
Jan 11 14:40:39 <vanous123> quatrox: that could be
Jan 11 14:42:04 <quatrox> vanous123: you can create /home/root/.xserverrc
Jan 11 14:42:16 <quatrox> and set the env var there
Jan 11 14:42:29 <quatrox> maybe it works
Jan 11 14:46:48 <vanous123> quatrox: .xserverrc didn't help but now i've found land settings in illume. will try 
Jan 11 14:51:23 <vanous123> quatrox: ok, so it was illume, after changing it in the wrench prefs all works. one has to (of course) install glibc-binary-localedata-xx-xx
Jan 11 14:52:06 <quatrox> ohh... nice:)
Jan 11 15:12:58 <RedFlash> hi, someone managed to get remoko running on Om2008.12 ?
Jan 11 15:15:07 <tordo> running, yes
Jan 11 15:15:08 <tordo> working, no
Jan 11 15:15:22 <tordo> not that i tried very hard
Jan 11 15:16:25 <RedFlash> i see .. same here ... problem seems to be : 
Jan 11 15:16:25 <RedFlash> Can't listen on HID control channel: Address already in use
Jan 11 15:16:25 <RedFlash> ERROR: Bluetooth is off
Jan 11 15:24:16 <quatrox> RedFlash: /etc/init.d/bluetooth stop
Jan 11 15:24:21 <quatrox> then try again
Jan 11 15:28:52 <RedFlash> thats stragne .. when bluetooth is running (meaning i did not stop it with your cammand) on startup remoko restarts the bluetooth ... 
Jan 11 15:28:52 <RedFlash> Stopping Bluetooth subsystem: hcid.
Jan 11 15:28:52 <RedFlash> Starting Bluetooth subsystem: hcid hid2hci.
Jan 11 15:29:23 <RedFlash> wehn bleutooth is not running i get this (error?) message DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.bluez was not provided by any .service files
Jan 11 15:30:04 <quatrox> strange
Jan 11 15:30:20 <Shlee> Speaking of bluetooth, the iPhone bluetooth people have released their first gui release.
Jan 11 15:30:42 <quatrox> Shlee: is that web based?
Jan 11 15:31:01 <Shlee> Nope.. you need to jailbreak
Jan 11 15:31:10 <quatrox> haha
Jan 11 15:31:24 <quatrox> good thing I don't have any iPhone:)
Jan 11 15:31:26 <Shlee> 1.0 of their bluetooth stumbler.. they are working on a BT stack
Jan 11 15:31:39 <lut4rp> SpeedEvil, i'm back
Jan 11 15:31:56 <lut4rp> SpeedEvil, found http://dailymobile.se/forum/nokia/flashing-your-brickeddead-phone/
Jan 11 15:34:49 <zedstar> writing a bluetooth stumbler for the moko is straightforward
Jan 11 15:40:06 <quatrox> I guess it will take some time before iPhone gets basic functionality
Jan 11 15:53:10 <zash__> roew
Jan 11 16:16:44 <badcloud> roEW
Jan 11 16:31:54 <Slaxxer> is it monday yet
Jan 11 16:33:34 <lut4rp> depends where on planet Earth you are :)
Jan 11 16:40:42 <Slaxxer> yea i want one of those blackbackground paroli dialers as well as a blackbackground terminal keyboard on shr
Jan 11 16:41:25 <Slaxxer> or the ability to switch between the 2 would be better
Jan 11 16:41:52 <mirko-paroli> hi slaxxer
Jan 11 16:41:55 <Slaxxer> o no      ?
Jan 11 16:42:00 <Slaxxer> wassa
Jan 11 16:42:29 <Slaxxer> he said nothing an had an excess flood    hmmmmm that cannot be good
Jan 11 16:43:05 <Slaxxer> might be time to sun a few diff os an ip for a while
Jan 11 16:43:38 <Mononoke> what's difference between tester and bugzapper ?
Jan 11 16:43:48 <Mononoke> *+the
Jan 11 16:44:06 <mirko-paroli> Slaxxer, got a pic of the black keyboard?
Jan 11 16:44:24 <Slaxxer>  i might be a tester but not able to fix buggs
Jan 11 16:44:32 <Slaxxer> yep
Jan 11 16:44:44 <Slaxxer> http://planet.openmoko.org/
Jan 11 16:45:11 <Slaxxer> can i changhe to that?
Jan 11 16:45:18 <Slaxxer> how to?
Jan 11 16:47:31 <mirko-paroli> Slaxxer that is the paroli dialer, I meant the shr kbd
Jan 11 16:53:01 <Slaxxer> y mine is white background
Jan 11 16:54:06 <Slaxxer> blinding stuff   looks like there was no forethought
Jan 11 16:55:24 <Slaxxer> daytime use maybe   but i dont know if the black would work better in high light
Jan 11 16:57:00 <Slaxxer> it appears to be the same dialer  except reversed
Jan 11 16:57:29 <mirko-paroli> ah so you mean in the shr dialer it is all white ?
Jan 11 16:57:36 <mirko-paroli> I haven't seen the shr dialer
Jan 11 16:57:51 <Slaxxer> is there a setting to change the dialer pad to black?
Jan 11 16:58:20 <mirko-paroli> in shr I do not know
Jan 11 16:58:26 <mirko-paroli> I am working on paroli
Jan 11 16:58:35 <mirko-paroli> and have no insight on shr
Jan 11 16:58:41 <Slaxxer> thanks   it looks great
Jan 11 17:01:56 <Slaxxer> the keyboard on shr wastes alot of prime real estate
Jan 11 17:03:13 <Slaxxer> 20 spots could increase the key  size    more than enough to make me happy
Jan 11 17:03:56 <Slaxxer> instead of 1 full keyboard   have 2   an keep it simple
Jan 11 17:04:37 <Slaxxer> sweep motion to switch keyboard  foe ease of use
Jan 11 17:04:53 <Slaxxer> KISS me
Jan 11 17:07:13 <Slaxxer> keep the full terminal for hacking
Jan 11 17:13:53 <Slaxxer> prolly 30 spaces counting that  bar for prdictive words    which really irritates me   enough
Jan 11 17:16:03 <Slaxxer> is there a setting to change the dialer pad to black?  in shr?
Jan 11 17:30:02 <md2k7> Slaxxer: i was trying to create something like the iphone keyboard
Jan 11 17:30:18 <md2k7> it would be nice in landscape, with full width
Jan 11 17:30:31 <md2k7> but i didn't manage to make it full width
Jan 11 17:39:30 <Slaxxer> thats what is needed
Jan 11 17:39:59 <Slaxxer> finger friendly
Jan 11 17:40:35 <Slaxxer>    not saying to scrap the terminal keyboard just improve useability
Jan 11 17:45:53 <Sharwin_F> Is there any easy way to set the terminal keyboard to be the default one instead the predictive one in SHR?
Jan 11 17:46:15 <Sharwin_F> 'cause I prefer using the terminal one and I've to change it always
Jan 11 17:58:52 <Slaxxer> do u have shr unstable or testing?
Jan 11 17:59:22 <Sharwin_F> Slaxxer, hmm that's a good question
Jan 11 17:59:44 <Slaxxer> where did u get it?
Jan 11 17:59:59 <Slaxxer> i have unstable
Jan 11 18:00:01 <Sharwin_F> Slaxxer, this is the file name: openmoko-shr-image-glibc-ipk--20081216-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2
Jan 11 18:00:14 <Slaxxer> 1216 is old
Jan 11 18:00:30 <Sharwin_F> Slaxxer, I've updated it with opkg update & upgrade
Jan 11 18:00:34 <Sharwin_F> is it ok then?
Jan 11 18:00:38 <Slaxxer> if i were u i would move on up
Jan 11 18:00:57 <Sharwin_F> Slaxxer, where's the image?
Jan 11 18:01:27 <Slaxxer> http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/?C=M;O=D
Jan 11 18:02:05 <Slaxxer> mine works well:)
Jan 11 18:02:16 <Sharwin_F> ok I'll try
Jan 11 18:02:29 <Slaxxer> plus shr is fixing to release 
Jan 11 18:02:31 <Sharwin_F> I'll make a backup first thought :)
Jan 11 18:02:45 <Slaxxer> for any reason:)?
Jan 11 18:02:57 <Slaxxer> back up what?
Jan 11 18:03:10 <Slaxxer> music/
Jan 11 18:03:12 <Slaxxer> ?
Jan 11 18:03:25 <Sharwin_F> Slaxxer, the one I have, I've added & modified certain things :)
Jan 11 18:03:32 <Slaxxer> ok
Jan 11 18:03:49 <Sharwin_F> but it's not the same upgrading with opkg than reflashing?
Jan 11 18:04:45 <Slaxxer> u opkg upgrade to testing   --not unstable  as far as i know
Jan 11 18:05:27 <Slaxxer> i guess u can change the  file to point there
Jan 11 18:05:27 <Sharwin_F> mmm but I see there's only lite images in that page
Jan 11 18:05:54 <Sharwin_F> so I'll get less apps installed by defautl isn't it?
Jan 11 18:06:01 <Slaxxer> i added fbreader an duke 3d to mine
Jan 11 18:06:26 <Slaxxer> trudge on fearless leader
Jan 11 18:06:42 <Slaxxer> its realy   pretty good
Jan 11 18:06:56 <Slaxxer> l
Jan 11 18:07:29 <Sharwin_F> Slaxxer, but the apps than don't come with lite (ie pidgin) are easily installable through opkg?
Jan 11 18:07:48 <Slaxxer> i didnt install pidgen
Jan 11 18:08:13 <Slaxxer> has a phone call log thats cool
Jan 11 18:08:28 <Slaxxer> i put meoem on to
Jan 11 18:08:54 <Slaxxer> an the keyboard that u want
Jan 11 18:09:37 <Slaxxer> and the   selector for keyboards is  correctly set to ease use
Jan 11 18:09:45 <Sharwin_F> Slaxxer, ok, donwloading :)
Jan 11 18:10:15 <Slaxxer> its not as lite as u would think
Jan 11 18:10:36 <Slaxxer> not near as lite as om
Jan 11 18:11:56 <Sharwin_F> well it says what's on each one here: http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/wiki/Get%20Started
Jan 11 18:13:08 <Sharwin_F> Slaxxer, is it something broken at the moment in unstable version?
Jan 11 18:13:25 <Slaxxer> not as far as i can tell
Jan 11 18:13:50 <Slaxxer> wifi works
Jan 11 18:13:58 <Slaxxer> gps works
Jan 11 18:14:20 <Slaxxer> with terminal command
Jan 11 18:14:45 <Slaxxer> im sure theres a bug or 2
Jan 11 18:15:19 <Slaxxer> but it shurely is good because the release is near
Jan 11 18:16:12 <Slaxxer> i use it for my phone
Jan 11 18:16:12 <Slaxxer> SHRly
Jan 11 18:16:14 <Sharwin_F> ok
Jan 11 18:16:36 <Sharwin_F> which command do u use to start gps? because I can't start it on my fr
Jan 11 18:17:24 <Slaxxer> when it ran all the way down an shut off     this morning i just powered up an it came up  then i plugged it in
Jan 11 18:17:55 <Slaxxer> its fso-gpsd i think
Jan 11 18:18:03 <Slaxxer>    orreversed
Jan 11 18:18:55 <Slaxxer> so it still had power enough to restart   even though it shut off on low battery
Jan 11 18:19:51 <Elleo> Sharwin_F: fso-gpsd should  be started automatically; make sure you have initscripts-shr installed not initscripts
Jan 11 18:20:08 <Elleo> otherwise lo isn't brought up properly and nothing can connect to fso-gpsd
Jan 11 18:20:14 <Sharwin_F> Elleo, I try to start it but it fails
Jan 11 18:20:17 <Sharwin_F> $ /etc/init.d/fso-gpsd start
Jan 11 18:20:18 <Sharwin_F> Starting freesmartphone.org gpsd compatibility daemon: start-stop-daemon: invalid option -- P
Jan 11 18:20:18 <Sharwin_F> BusyBox v1.11.3 (2008-12-24 11:42:30 CET) multi-call binary
Jan 11 18:20:18 <Sharwin_F> Usage: start-stop-daemon [OPTIONS] [-S|-K] ... [-- arguments...]
Jan 11 18:20:18 <Sharwin_F> (failed)
Jan 11 18:20:45 <Elleo> oh yeah, I remember having that issue
Jan 11 18:20:55 <Elleo> edit /etc/init.d/fso-gpsd
Jan 11 18:22:04 <Elleo> and change the start-stop-daemon line in the start section to:
Jan 11 18:22:10 <Elleo> start-stop-daemon --start -x /usr/sbin/fso-gpsd -- -S localhost:gpsd -P /var/run/${NAME}.pid
Jan 11 18:23:51 <Slaxxer> is that the brokek part u were refering to
Jan 11 18:23:53 <Sharwin_F> Elleo, yes, now works :)
Jan 11 18:24:25 <Sharwin_F> but is then GPS activated on startup, so eating power to he battery all the time?
Jan 11 18:24:30 <Elleo> no
Jan 11 18:24:38 <Elleo> it only activates when a program requests the GPS
Jan 11 18:24:46 <Sharwin_F> ok :D
Jan 11 18:24:56 <Elleo> and the deactivates when no more clients want it
Jan 11 18:26:07 <Sharwin_F> should now tangoGps work without doing anything more?
Jan 11 18:28:37 <Elleo> Sharwin_F: I think so
Jan 11 18:29:08 <Sharwin_F> I'll flash  he SHR image before
Jan 11 18:30:08 <Sharwin_F> Slaxxer, plase, tell me that with unstable telephony related apps have improved a lot xD
Jan 11 18:30:11 <Sharwin_F> *please
Jan 11 18:32:58 <Slaxxer> alot
Jan 11 18:33:57 <Sharwin_F> yey good! :D
Jan 11 18:34:17 <Slaxxer> still its a little unstable
Jan 11 18:34:46 <Slaxxer> sometimes the phone quits
Jan 11 18:37:51 <Sharwin_F> what do you mean? while calling?
Jan 11 18:38:09 <Sharwin_F> the app crashes?
Jan 11 18:41:37 <Sharwin_F> The unstable image is downlaoding at 10 kb/s >.<
Jan 11 19:10:52 <Sharwin_F> when charging the kernel ithe first time I read it charges gnome-vfs. Is not newer gvfs?
Jan 11 19:11:03 <rob79> anyone fso with paroli ? ^^
Jan 11 19:11:22 <mirko-paroli> rob79 kinda :)
Jan 11 19:11:54 <rob79> Ecore_X initialization failed!
Jan 11 19:12:06 <rob79> Etk can not initialize the requested engine!
Jan 11 19:12:16 <rob79> tips ?
Jan 11 19:12:34 <mirko-paroli> what distro?
Jan 11 19:12:52 <rob79> fso testing
Jan 11 19:13:40 <mirko-paroli> can you pastebin the whole error somewhere?
Jan 11 19:14:14 <Sharwin_F> Slaxxer, can I have more than 20 messages in inbox with SHR unstable?
Jan 11 19:14:59 <rob79> http://pastebin.com/m1af65c2d
Jan 11 19:17:43 <mirko-paroli> ah
Jan 11 19:17:52 <mirko-paroli> are yiu starting from console on you notebook/pc ?
Jan 11 19:18:25 <rob79> with the desktop (TLauncher) and try it with the console
Jan 11 19:18:44 <mirko-paroli> try
Jan 11 19:19:00 <mirko-paroli> export DISPLAY=:0 in your console before paroli-launcher
Jan 11 19:21:32 <rob79> hmm code 1 and no error msg grml
Jan 11 19:22:37 <mirko-paroli> code 1 ?
Jan 11 19:22:59 <rob79> ahh in console ^
Jan 11 19:23:00 <rob79> ^^
Jan 11 19:23:09 <mirko-paroli> btw you desktop icon is called TLauncher or PLauncher?
Jan 11 19:24:10 <jadams> hey hey
Jan 11 19:24:22 <rob79> TLauncher
Jan 11 19:24:52 <mirko-paroli> which package did you install ?
Jan 11 19:25:00 <rob79> opgk has no paroli in fso ?
Jan 11 19:25:08 <mirko-paroli> nope
Jan 11 19:25:12 <mirko-paroli> how did you install it?
Jan 11 19:25:35 <rob79> opkg tichy
Jan 11 19:25:46 <rob79> not found the new paroli site ^^
Jan 11 19:25:51 <mirko-paroli> ah
Jan 11 19:26:08 <rob79> wiki in openmoko is little bit old ?
Jan 11 19:26:20 <mirko-paroli> http://www.paroli-project.org/running-paroli/
Jan 11 19:26:24 <mirko-paroli> yapp 
Jan 11 19:26:40 <mirko-paroli> will get on that wiki page now(); :=
Jan 11 19:26:41 <mirko-paroli> :)
Jan 11 19:27:03 <jadams> any way to run hackable:1 on the neo1973?  I understand it doesn't fit, in general, but surely I can just boot it off of the SD, right?
Jan 11 19:28:16 <quatrox> jadams: that should work
Jan 11 19:28:41 <jadams> quatrox, cool.  I'm always trying to figure out how to turn the neo into something useful for me, haven't yet used it in anything worthwhile
Jan 11 19:30:00 <quatrox> jadams: a distro does not care if it is run from flash or sd
Jan 11 19:30:13 <quatrox> as long as /etc/fstab is correct
Jan 11 19:30:23 <quatrox> and I guess it is
Jan 11 19:32:43 <quatrox> jadams: you got both GTA's?
Jan 11 19:34:37 <rob79> hmm sos only ^^ but works
Jan 11 19:37:16 <quatrox> raster: what is the correct way to set the illume keyboards default keyboard layout?
Jan 11 19:37:37 <quatrox> I would like the terminal to be default
Jan 11 19:37:38 <jadams> quatrox, I only have the gta01 neo 1973
Jan 11 19:37:40 <mirko-paroli> rob79 i changed the wiki page, a bit scarce but at least no wrong info anymore, thx for pointing it out
Jan 11 19:37:45 <mirko-paroli> rob79 only sos?
Jan 11 19:40:59 <quatrox> jadams: you said you want to turn it into something useful. Define useful. A phone?
Jan 11 19:44:14 <rob79> PLauncher on every boot ?
Jan 11 19:44:14 <jadams> quatrox, I have a phone.  I bought an android, and I'm pretty happy with it.  I've had the neo since they first came out and never used it for anything but a few echo-filled calls and some playing with numpty, which I loved
Jan 11 19:44:25 <quatrox> ahh
Jan 11 19:45:11 <quatrox> maybe the wiki has some hints
Jan 11 19:45:16 <mirko-paroli> rob79 yes, for now it does not start at boot time
Jan 11 19:46:14 <rob79> hmm no service :/ after pin
Jan 11 19:46:27 <mirko-paroli> it might take a little
Jan 11 19:46:32 <mirko-paroli> usually 20-30 sec
Jan 11 19:47:01 <mirko-paroli> the time for registering on the network is not optimal
Jan 11 19:50:41 <rob79> hmm first start no service / second start sos only and no pin display
Jan 11 19:56:36 <Mortak> hi
Jan 11 19:57:07 <mirko-paroli> rob79 got console output?
Jan 11 19:57:17 <mirko-paroli> if not there is a log in /tmp/
Jan 11 20:01:39 <rob79> log in tmp path tztz ^^
Jan 11 20:01:51 <mirko-paroli> hehe
Jan 11 20:04:31 <Dave> Mister Paroli
Jan 11 20:05:23 <mirko-paroli> ya?
Jan 11 20:08:15 <rob79> Network not allowed ? lol ^^
Jan 11 20:08:29 <mirko-paroli> ah that is an fso error
Jan 11 20:08:33 <mirko-paroli> I know that one :)
Jan 11 20:08:53 <mirko-paroli> sure the sim works?
Jan 11 20:09:09 <mirko-paroli> (i know kinda stupid question) ;)
Jan 11 20:09:11 <rob79> jep with zhone
Jan 11 20:09:16 <Dave> software software software
Jan 11 20:09:17 <mirko-paroli> outsch
Jan 11 20:09:20 <mirko-paroli> that one hurt ;)
Jan 11 20:09:24 <rob79> zhone is remoced ^^
Jan 11 20:10:43 <mirko-paroli> can you pastebin the error?
Jan 11 20:11:17 <rob79> yes
Jan 11 20:11:20 <mirko-paroli> thx
Jan 11 20:11:24 <mirko-paroli> Dave ???
Jan 11 20:16:23 <cnwdup> Hello
Jan 11 20:16:52 <cnwdup> Does the Om2008.12 images support illume keyboard dictionaries in utf8 encoding?
Jan 11 20:23:16 <Sharwin_F> Slaxxer, did you have any problems installing duke3d? where did you installed from?
Jan 11 20:23:31 <Sharwin_F> I don't have any duke3d binary when I install it
Jan 11 20:24:54 <cnwdup> Also where can I set which keyboard dictionary and which keyboard layout is being used? I can't find anything helpful in the wiki.
Jan 11 20:27:56 <rob79> paroli first try http://pastebin.com/m4a3c51c2
Jan 11 20:29:00 <rob79> paroli second launch http://pastebin.com/md1318b1
Jan 11 20:29:10 <mirko-paroli> can't use freesmartphone GSM : org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.AuthFailed: that means the pin is wrong
Jan 11 20:29:14 <mirko-paroli> doesn't wrong
Jan 11 20:29:19 <mirko-paroli> doesn't it ?
Jan 11 20:30:25 <rob79> hmm
Jan 11 20:30:44 <rob79> easy pin ^^ 2 tries
Jan 11 20:32:24 <rob79> no message wrong pin ?
Jan 11 20:32:31 <mirko-paroli> no not yet :(
Jan 11 20:33:15 <mirko-paroli> should add one
Jan 11 20:33:23 <mirko-paroli> *hits himself on the head*
Jan 11 20:33:41 <mirko-paroli> can you make a bug report on trac.paroli-project.org ?
Jan 11 20:33:42 <rob79> yep but think it was the right one
Jan 11 20:34:06 <mirko-paroli> sry here is the url http://www.paroli-project.org/trac
Jan 11 20:34:10 <mirko-paroli> hmm
Jan 11 20:34:11 <rob79> ok
Jan 11 20:34:14 <mirko-paroli> that is strange indeed
Jan 11 20:35:01 <cnwdup> Whats the default init level?
Jan 11 20:35:43 <rob79> 5 ? i think ^^
Jan 11 20:35:50 <cnwdup> Thanks. (-:
Jan 11 20:36:00 <rob79> not sure ;)
Jan 11 20:36:15 <cnwdup> /etc/runlevel confirmed that. ^^
Jan 11 20:37:16 <Digital-Pioneer> Does anyone know a way to listen to the phone going on a modem?
Jan 11 20:37:27 <Digital-Pioneer> Modem is at devnode /dev/ttyACM0
Jan 11 20:37:41 <lindi-> Digital-Pioneer: ?
Jan 11 20:38:59 <Digital-Pioneer> lindi-: It's not a FR I'm using now, it's a RAZR, so the question is OT, sorry. Just figured someone might know here.
Jan 11 20:39:05 <rob79> correct pin but sim auth failed hmm
Jan 11 20:39:35 <Digital-Pioneer> I have the RAZR connected via USB, and the computer sees it as a modem. I'm wondering if there is a way to use the computer's audio capability instead of the phones.
Jan 11 20:40:39 <rob79> @mirko-paroli more testing tomorrow ^^
Jan 11 20:40:43 <aryasheel> Can we install openmoko on Motrola E6
Jan 11 20:40:46 <aryasheel> ??
Jan 11 20:40:55 <mirko-paroli> rob79 sure, am very curious how that comes
Jan 11 20:41:11 <mirko-paroli> I have 3 SIMs here and never had that error :(
Jan 11 20:41:32 <rob79> i can test a another sim
Jan 11 20:42:01 <rob79> any german sim tested ?
Jan 11 20:42:10 <mirko-paroli> yapp got a vodafone one here
Jan 11 20:44:24 <mirko-paroli> rob79 do you have a phone to test the SIM?
Jan 11 20:44:41 <mirko-paroli> i could also tell you how to get the PIN you enter displayed
Jan 11 20:45:37 <rob79> 2 mobile phones and 2 sims
Jan 11 20:45:45 <rob79> testing in work
Jan 11 20:50:07 <rob79> sims are ok
Jan 11 20:50:27 <rob79> none work on fr
Jan 11 20:50:47 <rob79> with paroli ^^
Jan 11 20:51:40 <rob79> need more debug msg ^^
Jan 11 20:52:23 <mirko-paroli> rob79: r u still getting the fso error?
Jan 11 20:53:27 <rob79> hmm any changes in fso sim auth ?
Jan 11 20:53:33 <mirko-paroli> btw if you set emission.part_text_set('num_field-text',new_stars) to emission.part_text_set('num_field-text',new)
Jan 11 20:53:34 <rob79> its a testing image
Jan 11 20:53:49 <mirko-paroli> in paroli-dialer.py line 511
Jan 11 20:54:01 <mirko-paroli> it will show you the numbers you enter during PIN
Jan 11 20:58:32 <rob79> path ? ^^
Jan 11 20:59:13 <mirko-paroli> rob79 usr/share/paroli/applications/paroli-dialer
Jan 11 21:01:14 * Dave dumps snow on sicu
Jan 11 21:03:25 <mokel> any one has a package of meooem? the link in om wiki and opkg.org is down
Jan 11 21:07:23 <rob79> numbers are ok
Jan 11 21:07:28 <rob79> @ mirko
Jan 11 21:07:33 <mirko-paroli> very strange
Jan 11 21:07:39 <mirko-paroli> but still the same error?
Jan 11 21:08:37 <rob79> yes
Jan 11 21:08:47 <rob79>  service <class 'sim.FreeSmartPhoneSim'> unusable, skipped
Jan 11 21:08:58 <rob79> strange warning ^^
Jan 11 21:09:13 <mirko-paroli> the line before gives you the fso error
Jan 11 21:09:14 <mirko-paroli> ;)
Jan 11 21:09:58 <mirko-paroli> we don't want paroli to crash when a service fails
Jan 11 21:10:18 <mirko-paroli> but the error msg is a bit little info
Jan 11 21:14:32 <mirko-paroli> rob79 i'll test it again
Jan 11 21:14:43 <Wonka> $ DISPLAY=:0 /usr/bin/openmoocow 
Jan 11 21:14:43 <Wonka> Neo Freerunner detected
Jan 11 21:14:43 <Wonka> Unable to open audio: No available audio device
Jan 11 21:14:46 <Wonka> WTF?
Jan 11 21:15:07 <Wonka> "mplayer /usr/share/openmoocow/moo.wav" does work though
Jan 11 21:16:26 <PaulFertser> Wonka: oss emulation?
Jan 11 21:17:22 <Wonka> PaulFertser: mplayer doesnt find oss and then successfully tries alsa
Jan 11 21:18:01 <Wonka> $ DISPLAY=:0 aoss /usr/bin/openmoocow 
Jan 11 21:18:01 <Wonka> ERROR: ld.so: object '/usr/$LIB/libaoss.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored.
Jan 11 21:18:05 <PaulFertser> Wonka: sure. But openmoocow probably can't do alsa. Try aoss (userspace oss->alsa wrapper)
Jan 11 21:18:10 <Wonka> *headdesk*
Jan 11 21:18:48 <PaulFertser> Wonka: patch openmoocow to support ALSA natively? Or compile oss-emulation modules. ;)
Jan 11 21:19:13 <Wonka> there is /usr/lib/libaoss.so.0
Jan 11 21:19:17 <mirko-paroli> rob79 ok, it is my fault
Jan 11 21:19:19 <DocScrutinizer2> waaaaaahhhHHH! aoss :-(
Jan 11 21:19:20 <Wonka> but not /usr/lib/libaoss.so
Jan 11 21:19:28 <mirko-paroli> I'll try to fix it
Jan 11 21:19:34 <DocScrutinizer2> DEPRECATED
Jan 11 21:19:37 <Wonka> and especially no /usr/$LIB/
Jan 11 21:19:52 <Wonka> DocScrutinizer2: it's at least ugly
Jan 11 21:20:06 <Wonka> DocScrutinizer2: i didn't actively install it!
Jan 11 21:21:49 <Wonka> after a quick vim session on /usr/bin/aoss, it moos
Jan 11 21:21:55 <DocScrutinizer2> every app should support alsa, and every app should have a config option to select the particulaer alsadev to be used (*NO* standard hardcoded!)
Jan 11 21:22:21 <rob79> python looks interesting ^^
Jan 11 21:23:44 <DocScrutinizer2> (alsa) see e.g. twinklephone.com for how to do alsa
Jan 11 21:25:11 <Dave> JOERG
Jan 11 21:25:50 <Wonka> it's not my app, and atm i am not inclined to fix it...
Jan 11 21:26:08 <Wonka> if i was inclined to do something, i'd rather enhance zgps
Jan 11 21:26:38 <Wonka> or start writing my IM+IRC-Client
Jan 11 21:26:41 <Dave> zgps?
Jan 11 21:27:30 <Wonka> Dave: the gps part from zhone. nothing more at the moment, but i plan to have it show OSM maps and also log tracks.
Jan 11 21:28:00 <Wonka> Dave: maybe render map display itself from osm vector data, later
Jan 11 21:30:15 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer2: do you think every sound app should use some lib (e.g. libao) to be compatible with other free OSs?
Jan 11 21:30:24 <Dave> aha
Jan 11 21:30:26 <Dave> yeah
Jan 11 21:30:38 <Dave> Wonka, that works fine on pc for now right? it's just that you'd like that on the phone?
Jan 11 21:30:41 <Dave> or what
Jan 11 21:31:34 <Wonka> Dave: that even runs fine on my FR
Jan 11 21:31:41 <Wonka> Dave: that which is there
Jan 11 21:31:52 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer2: and what's your opinion on pulseaudio, btw?
Jan 11 21:32:00 <Wonka> Dave: which is not more than the GPS part of zhone, at the moment :(
Jan 11 21:32:04 <DocScrutinizer2> PaulFertser: i don't see a standard for audio trans-os, so it basically doesn't care how app handles os-specific audio. a lib is a possibility...
Jan 11 21:32:57 <DocScrutinizer2> PaulFertser: pulse is a resource-hog and worth nothing for simple audio tasks like the ones we see on Neo
Jan 11 21:34:11 <DocScrutinizer2> theres just one issue with alsa i know of, and that's hotplug of soundcards (like bt-hs)
Jan 11 21:34:29 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer2: Like dynamic switching from handset to bluetooth? And controlling sound of every app independently?
Jan 11 21:35:12 <DocScrutinizer2> nah, where is the problem of controling audio app-specific with alsa?
Jan 11 21:36:34 <DocScrutinizer2> again see twinklephone.com yahoo-ml, where I did an example volume slider for ringtone specifically
Jan 11 21:36:38 <PaulFertser> If every app implements softvol internally, then there's no problem. But it's code duplication. afaik alsa doesn't present an individual mixer control to every app.
Jan 11 21:37:51 <DocScrutinizer2> open "softvol" for audio device, and it will have its own slider
Jan 11 21:38:05 <DocScrutinizer2> just that plain simple
Jan 11 21:38:19 <PaulFertser> Oh, cool :)
Jan 11 21:39:14 <DocScrutinizer2> yeah, alsa is cryptic and nasty, but its not that crippled as most people think
Jan 11 21:40:43 <PaulFertser> Alsa's very flexible but plugin documentation is not always very clear. And "ordinary users" can't understand it at all.
Jan 11 21:41:31 <DocScrutinizer2> i'm thinking this very minute about automatically loading correct alsa.state on opening alsa devices like handset-speaker, ringer, headset, handset-earpiece etc
Jan 11 21:41:50 <DocScrutinizer2> with alsa-hooks you should be able to do this
Jan 11 21:42:29 <PaulFertser> And, btw, most of the items in http://www.pulseaudio.org/wiki/AlsaIssues seem to have some ground.
Jan 11 21:43:05 <mstevens> how do I recharge a completely flat neo?
Jan 11 21:44:13 <DocScrutinizer2> hmm, dunno this site. But i know pulse is designed for low latency and happily uses up 100% cpu by adding zeroes of two silent audiostreams
Jan 11 21:45:26 <DocScrutinizer2> in the end i don't know of any soundcard drivers other than the alsa ones
Jan 11 21:45:49 <DocScrutinizer2> pulse just a layer over it
Jan 11 21:47:10 <PaulFertser> AFAIK PA's developer is seriously targeting embedded devices. It shouldn't waste cpu, it's an effective design. And i think that his developer has enough alsa experience to judge about alsa's problems.
Jan 11 21:48:31 <PaulFertser> mstevens: look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_Battery
Jan 11 21:48:58 <mstevens> will that apply to the 1973 as well?
Jan 11 21:49:51 <quatrox> mstevens: I didn't check the wiki page, but yes
Jan 11 21:49:55 <PaulFertser> mstevens: some tricks will work regardless. 
Jan 11 21:50:35 <PaulFertser> mstevens: the easiest way, i guess, is too boot with a nokia battery, than plug-in the wall charger, ensure maximum charging current and hot-swap the batteries.
Jan 11 21:50:57 <DocScrutinizer2> PaulFertser: (pulse) well, guess why pulse has been kicked out of OM
Jan 11 21:51:19 <mirko-paroli> rob79 I found out what the prob is
Jan 11 21:51:24 <mirko-paroli> it is not at all your numbers
Jan 11 21:51:33 <mirko-paroli> but a service that doesn't get discovered
Jan 11 21:51:42 <mirko-paroli> am trying to find out why that is the case
Jan 11 21:51:50 <rob79> ok
Jan 11 21:51:58 <mirko-paroli> sry about that
Jan 11 21:52:06 <rob79> np ^^
Jan 11 21:52:10 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer2: either it has some non-fixed bugs or nobody wanted to look at it closely. It's even probably that OM's alsa drivers have bugs.
Jan 11 21:52:12 <mirko-paroli> will try to get a new package with a fix ready till tomorrow
Jan 11 21:52:49 <PaulFertser> PaulFertser: much effort for no real gain for most end-users. Therefore it's been kicked out, i guess.
Jan 11 21:53:12 <DocScrutinizer2> hmm, those are written by broonie of Wolfson Inc iirc
Jan 11 21:53:35 <PaulFertser> It doesn't mean they are bug-free, does it? ;)
Jan 11 21:55:02 <DocScrutinizer2> but it for sure doesn't mean pulse has any advantage over alsa (other than better doc, so people prefer to try and implement pulse instead of understanding alsa)
Jan 11 21:55:03 <quatrox> a program without bugs is useless because it has size = 0
Jan 11 21:56:16 <DocScrutinizer2> and, as mentioned before, pa uses alsa kernel drivers
Jan 11 21:56:50 <DocScrutinizer2> pa is just a layer between alsa nd userspace
Jan 11 21:57:16 <DocScrutinizer2> afaik
Jan 11 21:57:22 * quatrox thinks pa is overkill
Jan 11 21:57:41 <DocScrutinizer2> nota bene, i don't like alsa as well, and i'm no expert
Jan 11 21:57:55 <DocScrutinizer2> quatrox: ACK
Jan 11 22:01:32 <quatrox> besides, switching between handset and headset generates an irq which a daemon picks up and loads the correct state file
Jan 11 22:02:13 <DocScrutinizer2> quatrox: yup, that's the way it is supposed to be
Jan 11 22:02:39 <quatrox> but not fully implemented yet
Jan 11 22:03:29 <DocScrutinizer2> depends i guess. dunno about recent state of this topic in different distros
Jan 11 22:04:56 <quatrox> DocScrutinizer2: e.g. activate speaker during a call and then deactivate it - or, insert the headset when the call is active - this didn't work last time I checked.... but everything else worked:)
Jan 11 22:05:02 <DocScrutinizer2> quatrox: btw: its a little more tricky, as you cant just load the correct statefile once on jackinsert. Playback of ringtone e.g. would override that
Jan 11 22:05:22 <quatrox> ahh
Jan 11 22:06:36 <DocScrutinizer2> and, as i mentioned some time ago, you actually MUST NOT playback ringtone via speaker while headset plugged, its electrically mutually exclusive
Jan 11 22:07:32 <DocScrutinizer2> (i.e. you may blow your hs or your ears, as hs cant be disabled when using speaker)
Jan 11 22:08:00 <quatrox> that is not good
Jan 11 22:08:18 <mwester-laptop> You can't make the phone ring while a headset is plugged in, then???
Jan 11 22:08:22 <mwester-laptop> Ooooo.....
Jan 11 22:08:59 <DocScrutinizer2> mwester: you can, but hs will get same full power as speaker does
Jan 11 22:09:17 <mwester-laptop> :(
Jan 11 22:09:20 <mwester-laptop> Oh well...
Jan 11 22:09:30 <DocScrutinizer2> hw
Jan 11 22:09:40 <DocScrutinizer2> see schem
Jan 11 22:09:53 * mwester-laptop is just accustomed to ringer volume being completely independent from other audio, that's all.
Jan 11 22:10:05 <quatrox> mwester-laptop: why would you want that? When you use your headset, the music should fade away and you should hear a ringing in the headset while the phone vibrates
Jan 11 22:10:35 <DocScrutinizer2> thats the way this should be handled, yes
Jan 11 22:11:09 <Wonka> yeah, full-power w48.wav to the HS!
Jan 11 22:11:09 <mwester-laptop> quatrox: because often the headset sits in my pocket, not in my ears.  Consider a crowded commuter train, with lots of noise -- I use a headset, but don't wear it all the time.
Jan 11 22:11:33 <mwester-laptop> quatrox: it just means I'll have to keep it in the pocket where the vibrator can alert me to the call.
Jan 11 22:11:50 <quatrox> mwester-laptop: then you might want to try BT headset
Jan 11 22:12:10 <mwester-laptop> keep phone in pocket, I mean -- not just the headset in pocket.  And yes, bluetooth is probably the option I'll need anyway to avoid the echo and buzz.
Jan 11 22:12:33 <DocScrutinizer2> mwester: you could start with headset, then slowly increase ringer volume of speaker
Jan 11 22:12:35 <lindi-> mwester-laptop: %N187 seems to fix echo quite nicely here, only buzz is an issue
Jan 11 22:12:36 <mwester-laptop> It would be nice to have bluetooth working some day, then.
Jan 11 22:12:50 <mwester-laptop> DocScrutinizer2: that's a good idea, actually.
Jan 11 22:13:04 <DocScrutinizer2> thanks
Jan 11 22:13:33 * quatrox never had echo except when using the speaker
Jan 11 22:14:08 * mwester-laptop has had the echo, and suspects that mickey's latest commit will resolve that in SHR/FSO finally.
Jan 11 22:14:24 <DocScrutinizer2> lindi-: yup, it should fix echo for good
Jan 11 22:16:21 <quatrox> what is %N187?
Jan 11 22:16:42 <quatrox> echo cancelling?
Jan 11 22:16:59 <DocScrutinizer2> quatrox: AT%Nnnn : calypso echo cnacellation setup
Jan 11 22:17:18 <quatrox> great:)
Jan 11 22:17:18 <DocScrutinizer2> and noise gate
Jan 11 22:18:07 <quatrox> DocScrutinizer2: I assume I should flash the calypso to get that fix
Jan 11 22:18:16 <DocScrutinizer2> you can tune the actual parameters to meet your taste
Jan 11 22:18:30 <DocScrutinizer2> quatrox: nope
Jan 11 22:18:42 <DocScrutinizer2> always been there
Jan 11 22:19:13 <quatrox> anyway, it is time for me to flash it soon
Jan 11 22:19:20 <DocScrutinizer2> just needs to be set before each single call, as its not "sticky"
Jan 11 22:19:31 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer2: any progress on #1024? I though budfive gave some valuable info. And you can ask him to perform more tests.
Jan 11 22:20:20 <DocScrutinizer2> i'm starting to do real work again tomorrow. still curing my flu
Jan 11 22:20:52 <DocScrutinizer2> (1024) afaik, nothing new yet
Jan 11 22:20:57 <badcloud> hey all
Jan 11 22:22:12 <badcloud> has anyone found a way to bypass the screenlock+zlock for incoming calls/sms?
Jan 11 22:23:43 <quatrox> badcloud: it should be simple, but not sure if it is done yet
Jan 11 22:24:24 <badcloud> simple for whom ;)
Jan 11 22:24:46 <quatrox> the developers
Jan 11 22:24:51 <DocScrutinizer2> gnah, please dont enable the ts on inbound ringing, as phone still sitting in the pocket!
Jan 11 22:25:12 <Wonka> ack
Jan 11 22:25:22 <badcloud> I'm no dev...
Jan 11 22:26:33 <quatrox> badcloud: are you sure you want this?
Jan 11 22:28:05 * quatrox agrees with DocScrutinizer2
Jan 11 22:29:15 <badcloud> quatrox, have you tried answering an incoming call when the display is locked with zlock??
Jan 11 22:29:30 <quatrox> no
Jan 11 22:29:49 <quatrox> what is the problem?
Jan 11 22:29:59 <Arg0naut>  #openmoko-cdevel
Jan 11 22:30:06 <badcloud> it takes forever: aux, draw a big z
Jan 11 22:33:28 <quatrox> is /dev/input/event4 the headset btn?
Jan 11 22:35:00 <PaulFertser> quatrox: "Neo1973 Buttons" all of them, i guess
Jan 11 22:35:23 <quatrox> nope
Jan 11 22:35:29 <quatrox> 2,3 are accels
Jan 11 22:38:56 <quatrox> badcloud: if you don't use the neo to play music, just suspend it
Jan 11 22:39:12 <quatrox> it will wake up when you receive a call or sms
Jan 11 22:39:53 <badcloud> that's not the case in shr from my experience
Jan 11 22:40:33 <quatrox> badcloud: try a newer build
Jan 11 22:40:36 <badcloud> usually what happens is that it wakes up, doesn't show the incoming call dialog, but won't stop vibrating and ringing
Jan 11 22:41:38 <badcloud> how do I update to a newer build? flash or opkg?
Jan 11 22:41:51 <quatrox> badcloud: flash would be the best
Jan 11 22:42:18 <badcloud> what's the latest now?
Jan 11 22:42:35 <badcloud> or at least, the latest stable build
Jan 11 22:44:01 <quatrox> badcloud: which kernel are you using?
Jan 11 22:44:14 <quatrox> badcloud: I compiled the newest one: http://shr.buildhost.quatrox.org/images/om-gta02/
Jan 11 22:44:51 <mirko-paroli> rob79 still around?
Jan 11 22:45:48 <quatrox> badcloud: let me know if there are problems on the image
Jan 11 22:45:49 <badcloud> wow, thanks
Jan 11 22:45:52 <badcloud> will do
Jan 11 22:49:49 <quatrox> badloud: I will put them on a faster server, but don't have login yet, so it will take some time to download
Jan 11 22:50:04 <badcloud> oh, and kernel, I've been using the 14-Dec-2008
Jan 11 22:50:34 <quatrox> same as I used... I did not have the problem you told me about
Jan 11 22:50:52 <badcloud> lemme try again before I flash
Jan 11 22:51:11 <Dave> nordmenn!
Jan 11 22:51:20 <badcloud> heisann
Jan 11 22:51:27 <quatrox> hei
Jan 11 22:51:27 <Dave> s'kjera? :)
Jan 11 22:52:00 <quatrox> slapper av
Jan 11 22:52:00 <sicu> sengetid
Jan 11 22:52:00 <badcloud> other than a temperamental phone, ingenting
Jan 11 22:52:25 <quatrox> badclaud: huff da
Jan 11 22:53:11 <quatrox> s/au/ou/
Jan 11 22:53:11 <apt> quatrox meant: badcloud: huff da
Jan 11 22:53:20 <badcloud> ????
Jan 11 22:53:46 <quatrox> not good with an angry phone
Jan 11 22:54:00 <rob79> @mirko-paroli yes
Jan 11 22:54:10 <mirko-paroli> rob79 i found the error
Jan 11 22:54:32 <mirko-paroli> was sth in the init of the service
Jan 11 22:55:01 <badcloud> ok, here we go. suspending....
Jan 11 22:55:01 <badcloud> calling...
Jan 11 22:55:01 <mirko-paroli> so I am trying to fix the git version right now to have the package build in 1h07min ;)
Jan 11 22:55:17 <badcloud> answering
Jan 11 22:55:22 <badcloud> halle$%^&*luya
Jan 11 22:55:32 <quatrox> :)
Jan 11 22:55:49 <badcloud> so, what did you update on your image?
Jan 11 22:56:02 <quatrox> nothing
Jan 11 22:56:04 <badcloud> seems heftier than bearstech's
Jan 11 22:56:07 <badcloud> ah
Jan 11 22:56:48 <brian__> so why is it 115 megs?
Jan 11 22:57:05 <quatrox> just compiled the unstable
Jan 11 22:57:19 <badcloud> for some reason though, I can't exit 'new sms'
Jan 11 22:57:22 <brian__> trying to dl
Jan 11 22:57:46 <brian__> 25KB/s
Jan 11 22:57:59 <brian__> shall i stop?
Jan 11 22:58:28 <quatrox> brian__: i will put it on gigabit within a few days
Jan 11 22:58:29 <badcloud> I can stop so you can get more bandwidth
Jan 11 22:58:41 <brian__> na
Jan 11 22:58:46 <brian__> no hurry
Jan 11 22:59:15 <badcloud> don't need it anyway... yet :P
Jan 11 22:59:19 <brian__> 82KB/s
Jan 11 22:59:32 <quatrox> hmm
Jan 11 22:59:52 <brian__> sorry
Jan 11 22:59:56 <quatrox> brian__: it should be 25 times faster
Jan 11 23:00:15 <brian__> 91KB/s
Jan 11 23:00:44 <brian__> why is it 115 megs?/
Jan 11 23:00:56 <brian__> whats new?
Jan 11 23:01:10 <badcloud> t'was what I was askin too
Jan 11 23:01:36 <badcloud> Dave, are you as psyched as I am about the wake on event??
Jan 11 23:02:03 <quatrox> it is not lite
Jan 11 23:02:18 <brian__> oic
Jan 11 23:02:26 <badcloud> but the bearstech nonlite is 80 megs, isn't it?
Jan 11 23:02:27 <quatrox> i should prob build that too
Jan 11 23:02:27 <sicu> raster: your logo reminded me of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eon_(novel) and http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=3987
Jan 11 23:05:06 <brian__> intresting
Jan 11 23:05:22 <brian__> raster has good company
Jan 11 23:05:51 <brian__> that works 2-3 different ways
Jan 11 23:06:49 <Mortak> hmm, my freshly build shr has 120mb
Jan 11 23:07:02 <brian__> quatrox whats new here on this current image?
Jan 11 23:07:17 <quatrox> not sure
Jan 11 23:08:08 <brian__> mortak is it installed?
Jan 11 23:08:09 <Mortak> brian__: ill try it tomorrow
Jan 11 23:08:13 <brian__> o
Jan 11 23:08:42 <brian__> 49 percent more an ima trying it
Jan 11 23:09:52 <quatrox> Nota bene: I am not sure if the images are ok
Jan 11 23:10:00 <badcloud> who do I thank for the suspend fix?
Jan 11 23:10:15 <brian__> ok
Jan 11 23:10:22 <brian__> i understand
Jan 11 23:10:28 <badcloud> or rather the wake on event
Jan 11 23:11:15 <badcloud> well, whomever, thank you
Jan 11 23:11:18 <badcloud> and good night
Jan 11 23:14:39 <gurugentoo> any ideas for mounting the phone on a bike?
Jan 11 23:15:04 <cjb> gurugentoo: see the comments on http://blog.printf.net/articles/2008/08/11/an-openmoko-bike-ride
Jan 11 23:15:08 <cjb> there's also a mailing list thread
Jan 11 23:16:46 <gurugentoo> sweet
Jan 11 23:19:17 <elektranox> gurugentoo: http://elektranox.org/blog/?p=3
Jan 11 23:23:14 <gurugentoo> elektranox: that looks nice and easy...
Jan 11 23:23:20 <gurugentoo> hmm
Jan 11 23:23:49 <Mortak> i need one for my car :)
Jan 11 23:24:59 <elektranox> gurugentoo: I can turn arround my bike and Freerunner will stay in the mounting :)
Jan 11 23:25:45 <Dave> Mortak!
Jan 11 23:26:00 <Mortak> Dave: !
Jan 11 23:26:10 <CVirus> Dave: !
Jan 11 23:26:16 <CVirus> it's me .. Wirus
Jan 11 23:33:51 <Dave> It's you!
Jan 11 23:33:59 <Dave> I see you there, spreading your evil!
Jan 11 23:40:43 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03mirko 07org.openmoko.dev * r559877790475 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: changed git revision for paroli -- PIN fix
Jan 11 23:46:48 <mirko-paroli> n8 everyone
Jan 11 23:47:29 <rob79> gn8
Jan 11 23:47:56 <mirko-paroli> rob79 till the next error ;)
Jan 12 00:05:24 <Slaxxer> website looks good
Jan 12 00:07:08 <Slaxxer> 20080111 shr coming up
Jan 12 00:07:36 <Slaxxer> ugly
Jan 12 00:09:11 <Slaxxer> crapload of modules
Jan 12 00:13:01 <Slaxxer> real ugly
Jan 12 00:13:10 <Dave> describing yourself now, are ye?
Jan 12 00:13:14 <Slaxxer> yup
Jan 12 00:14:03 <Slaxxer> hung up saying not enough space for summary
Jan 12 00:17:30 <Slaxxer> had to remove battery
Jan 12 00:19:52 <Dave> mokocrack
Jan 12 00:57:22 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03mirko 07org.openmoko.dev * rc7e1734d38e7 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: typo ... in paroli rev
Jan 12 02:28:51 <brian__> how do i get the black background keyboard "terminal" on 2008.12?
Jan 12 02:32:59 <brian__> can i build a jffs2 file myself from a freerunner backup  or something?
Jan 12 02:41:33 <brian__> i have 2008.12 loaded with alot of stuff
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jan 12 02:59:57 2009