**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Mar 23 02:59:57 2009 Mar 23 03:15:03 brownchickenbrowncow Mar 23 03:21:33 well, that seems to work Mar 23 03:27:57 phil! Mar 23 03:44:13 two more freakin' plane crashes Mar 23 03:53:44 is it a common problem for the screen to be black and white after resuming when using the qi bootloader? Mar 23 03:57:47 penguinator: search the mailinglist, there have been reports about it, but i certainly don't think it's very common (could be wrong, i'm not yet a qi user) Mar 23 03:58:41 hm, not much luck with GPS in SHR testing Mar 23 03:58:46 followed the hints on trac Mar 23 04:02:19 Zorkman: any clues for terms in the search? i tried google and nothing good came up Mar 23 04:07:01 stupid glamo Mar 23 04:57:29 Chocky: but glamo is so great! its the best gfx chip ever! Mar 23 05:01:50 ahahahaha Mar 23 05:01:53 Is it april already!? Mar 23 05:02:00 :o Mar 23 05:04:14 which clown put "goto" in one of the wiki templates? Mar 23 05:05:04 hahaha Mar 23 05:18:49 What's up, Doc? Mar 23 05:53:10 shr here yet? Mar 23 06:40:29 rooly1 left, but i still want to inform users that dial number for GPRS doesn't matter. It works with the hardcoded FSO number as well. Mar 23 06:41:42 penguinator: known problem, fixed in newer kernel versions. Mar 23 07:06:31 hhahahaha awesome, something's funky and this media-player alters the flow of time Mar 23 07:10:43 magic mystery player Mar 23 07:10:52 thats what mplayer really is Mar 23 08:01:43 I wonder where all that embedded drug-abusers come from. I read lpc24xx-linux (arm7 nommu) mailing list and see plenty of messages from people that make no sense at all. Like they can't read code or understand basic unix ideas. Now i the same clueless messages at sdhci-devel (hi bd2, you saw the messages i'm talking about ;) ). Where all those strange people come from? Mar 23 08:11:44 PaulFertser: school? i've been following the lpc2000 yahoo group for some time, and it feels like a majority of the threads are about help with schoolwork. (i hope so, i pray they don't get paid for anything they do) Mar 23 08:13:26 mithris: Oh? Sounds reasonable, i've never thought about that. I thought EA boards are a bit too expensive. Mar 23 08:15:45 mithris: otoh EA doesn't target real developers as they don't use any modern build system (read buildroot) don't maintain the kernel and their dvd contains some stupid vmware image. Mar 23 08:17:27 PaulFertser: hm, EA boards? Mar 23 08:21:17 mithris: Embedded Artists development boards. They target uCLinux developers but in a very strange way. Mar 23 08:22:08 mithris: they implemented most of the u-boot and uCLinux support for lpc2xxx. But in an unmaintainable way. Mar 23 08:22:33 PaulFertser: ah, i got some lpc214x boars from EA.. never been bothered with uclinux tho. Mar 23 08:41:41 good morning Mar 23 08:42:16 Hopscotch, Howdy! Mar 23 11:04:51 could someone, who is successfully booting their freerunner from sd, give me the output of his "zcat /proc/config.gz | grep -i mmc" please? Mar 23 11:14:09 hello, i want to install vala-terminal_1.1.1 via opkg, than an error "Error: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for vala-terminal * libvte9(>=0.16.9)" where can i find this lib and how do i install it? Mar 23 11:15:02 tomboy64: useless use of cat, but anyway: http://paste.debian.net/31242/ Mar 23 11:15:35 henk: zgrep would work, too, of course - thanks Mar 23 11:15:43 tomboy64: ;) Mar 23 12:36:21 * SeligArkin slaps gcc Mar 23 12:46:37 @sk021 Mar 23 12:47:07 ? Mar 23 12:47:44 b34ns Mar 23 13:08:18 on SHR, I used dbus' ousaged interface to attempt to start GPS. after a long time it returned silently, but logread -f is emitting an infinite supply of "Jan 5 19:03:00 om-gta02 user.info fso-gpsd[1443]: WARNING: Timeout: gypsy device not started" and getResourceState returns False Mar 23 13:08:43 did I miss a step or are things just sucking on their own? Mar 23 13:14:49 SM2k: probably you need to request the resource and don't exit. Mdbus exits as soon as it calls the method, probably the resource gets released immediately? Mar 23 13:15:36 PaulFertser: interesting, I used mdbus as a debugging method. I actually used the python dbus interface originally Mar 23 13:17:24 after rebooting the moko, I have: a getResourceState of True and a getResourcePolicy of auto Mar 23 13:17:59 my code actually calls setResourcePolicy GPS enabled Mar 23 13:18:09 SM2k: that was a wild guess of mine, don't count on it too much. Read the specs and the code instead :) Mar 23 13:18:11 am I perhaps tripping things up by doing that? Mar 23 13:18:49 PaulFertser: your wild guess counts for more than mine :-) Mar 23 13:20:32 SM2k: actually, i'm not even a python programmer, but FSO code is easy enough. :) Mar 23 13:20:48 so's python (easy enough to read) Mar 23 13:24:52 SM2k: btw, ophonekitd has a special script-friendly interface for requesting resources (keeps reference count and releases automatically). Mar 23 13:24:53 PaulFertser: ah, well when I left it alone and just watched the logs, it wallowed around pissing about gypsy all on it's own. Mar 23 13:25:03 it seems to suck without my help :-) Mar 23 13:25:18 ophonekitd? Mar 23 13:25:28 SM2k: yes, afaik. Mar 23 13:26:30 SM2k: btw, sometimes some parts of the frameworkd don't start and that can lead to weird errors in logs. Check frameworkd.log for ogpsd messages. Mar 23 13:26:31 is appears that that doesn't have a native python interface. I assume it must be called ala cmdline then? Mar 23 13:26:50 SM2k: i guess ophonekitd has a native dbus interface. Mar 23 13:27:06 http://slexy.org/view/s2dlcYYlki crap like that eh? :-) Mar 23 13:28:38 PaulFertser, hi. wrt eSDHC.. thanks! ;-) Mar 23 13:28:57 org.freesmartphone.ophoned that api I assume? Mar 23 13:31:28 SM2k: no, that's FSO interface Mar 23 13:31:52 oh hey wait a moment. mdbus -s org.shr.ophonekitd.Usage /org/shr/ophonekitd/Usage there's that Mar 23 13:32:06 but I've been using org.freesmartphone.ousaged /org/freesmartphone/Usage Mar 23 13:32:18 .... are those interchangeable? Mar 23 13:32:34 the api's look suspiciously similar Mar 23 13:32:48 SM2k: yeah shit like that. Gypsy should start clearly, without tracebacks. Mar 23 13:33:09 SM2k: read the full traceback message to understand why it happens. Mar 23 13:34:28 bd2: btw, do they allow you to work enough on submission upstream or do they prefer fast and dirty results (or even custom work without really releasing it at all)? Mar 23 13:34:29 hi Mar 23 13:37:01 finally someone offers repair service for buzz problem in Germany ... here's the post on the mailing list: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-March/043971.html . how can I "mail him privately" ? I can't find his email adress :( Mar 23 13:38:29 roterguru: Daniel Willmann daniel at openmoko.org Mar 23 13:38:42 it says so ion top of the page Mar 23 13:38:46 roterguru: but he's not doing repair service. He's holding repair party. Mar 23 13:42:11 hm, ok ... maybe he accepts some freerunners sent by mail ... Mar 23 13:44:56 PaulFertser, that depends. usually Freescale give us some time to upstream our work, sometimes results have higher priority though. other times you just cannot include some patch in a product until it's acked by the community. Mar 23 13:52:45 bd2: nice to hear. I hope you enjoy your job :) Mar 23 14:04:06 hey, i want to install vala-terminal_1.1.1 via opkg, than an error "Error: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for vala-terminal * libvte9(>=0.16.9)" where can i find this lib and how do i install it? Mar 23 14:06:26 master_void: you should mention the distribution you are talking about... Mar 23 14:40:23 does anyone know which is the latest kernel with squashfs AND wifi (with the kernels from http://downloads.openmoko.org/distro/experimental/NeoFreerunner/ i don't get wifi.....) Mar 23 14:45:13 modules get installed? Mar 23 14:46:30 slaxxin: yes, i untarred them Mar 23 14:46:54 i will probably be doing something wrong, but can't figure out what... Mar 23 14:47:27 i had to install another kernel to be able to put the modules on the fr and untar them, then i reflashed to that newest kernel but ifconfig only gives me "lo" Mar 23 15:11:34 henk: i have a neo freerunner and use an image from branch org.openmoko.asu.stable Mar 23 15:35:26 My freerunner arrived today =) Mar 23 15:35:58 saracen_: commiserations. Mar 23 15:36:03 err Mar 23 15:36:06 congratulations Mar 23 15:36:48 :) Mar 23 15:38:04 enjoy it saracen_ Mar 23 15:45:11 :o Mar 23 16:43:03 the excitement Mar 23 16:43:34 hmm, so I just flashed it with the latest filesystem and kernel, now it just has the openmoko logo... seems to have frozen during booting ;x Mar 23 16:43:39 any ideas? Mar 23 16:48:09 saracen_: kernel too big for u-boot? Mar 23 16:48:54 How would I know? transfer got to 100%, while I was afk Mar 23 16:49:15 I came back, and theres just the logo (the splash bootscreen one), no error messages Mar 23 16:49:26 There a way to force restart? ;x Mar 23 16:51:06 remove battery? Mar 23 16:52:36 Good point. In truth, I did try that and wondered why it was magically still on... (yeah, usb cable) =( Mar 23 16:52:39 which kernel did you use? (link?) Mar 23 16:53:10 it was the one for 2008.12 release Mar 23 16:53:20 http://downloads.openmoko.org/distro/releases/Om2008.12/ Mar 23 16:53:36 booted now Mar 23 16:55:24 hmm, I think i'm missing some point. I booted just then by going to the NOR boot menu Mar 23 16:55:40 shutdown, and now tried turning on phone again, same thing... Mar 23 16:55:52 so, NOR works, NAND doesn't? Mar 23 16:56:32 if NAND is what usually boots, then yes. I can try going to the NAND menu and booting there... Mar 23 16:57:21 yes, if you don't press anything, it'll use the bootloader from NAND to get started, but not show a menu Mar 23 16:58:01 it may be worth trying Qi, since it's faster and cleaner anyway Mar 23 16:58:09 and even more confusing ;-) Mar 23 16:58:14 i just booted from the nand, it worked Mar 23 16:58:16 Im confused Mar 23 16:58:39 yes, there seems to be some issue with latest u-boot. mine doesn't come up from flash unless I explictly use the menu Mar 23 16:58:45 I havent RTFM, I'm assuming the side button is "on", and not some "hold for logo of openmoko for no reason" Mar 23 16:59:05 aka bling button. Mar 23 17:00:36 the trouble with u-boot is that it does all kinds of initialisation of hardware which means the kernel has to start from a slightly weird state Mar 23 17:00:48 Qi is the answer to this - it does the absolute bare minimum Mar 23 17:01:23 and is faster, can boot bigger kernel images (if that's an issue for you), and has no separate boot menu to get confused by Mar 23 17:01:35 (faster bootloader means you get faster resume) Mar 23 17:03:29 So, I imagine flashing Qi is the same as installing the kernel/filesystem, but to the u-boot partition? Mar 23 17:04:02 saracen_: It's way I did it Mar 23 17:04:09 yep, exactly Mar 23 17:06:27 buenos tacos Mar 23 17:06:37 hmm, thought there was suppose to be some sort of wifi settings option for 2008.12 Mar 23 17:07:28 wifi works better if dhcp/static in /etc/network/interfaces so the shr-settings just turns it on/off Mar 23 17:07:36 mofi just doesn't work Mar 23 17:11:27 ahoi Mar 23 17:11:30 none of the wifi managers I tried with SHR work. Mar 23 17:11:36 all a bit sad story Mar 23 17:11:40 big Mar 23 17:11:55 conman 0.12 does, as stefan_schmidt announced 5min ago Mar 23 17:12:09 :o Mar 23 17:12:24 * Chocks looks Mar 23 17:12:52 * Chocks wonders where to look. Mar 23 17:13:03 no announcement on ML yet I assume Mar 23 17:13:20 I just look at archives, which is in any case delayed Mar 23 17:13:25 fso devels channel Mar 23 17:14:04 * Chocks will settle for a URL Mar 23 17:14:04 anyway... Mar 23 17:14:10 * DocScrutinizer away Mar 23 17:15:39 Chocks: mofi works here on wpa networks Mar 23 17:15:45 just turn wifi on first Mar 23 17:15:58 I did. Mar 23 17:16:02 mofi has a blank window Mar 23 17:16:40 mofi takes a while to load Mar 23 17:16:54 as when starting it is doing all the wifi scanning but does not give any feedback Mar 23 17:16:58 I see. Mar 23 17:17:34 * Chocks tries again Mar 23 17:18:06 but when SHR loads wifi is off (if you load settings just after it has loaded shr-settings sometimes tells you it is on even when it isn't :) ) Mar 23 17:19:07 * Chocks waits for it. and waits. Mar 23 17:19:51 the current testing image does seem to be more flakey for wifi at the moment but it does work Mar 23 17:27:36 hum Mar 23 17:27:38 * Chocks pokes his AP Mar 23 17:29:48 hm, if I only knew what IP it got Mar 23 17:30:09 the mofi window should tell you Mar 23 17:30:55 it's nice and blank, so no Mar 23 17:31:03 :| Mar 23 17:31:08 arping not helping. Mar 23 17:33:47 Chocks: the router's IP address, or the Neo's? Mar 23 17:33:53 Neo's Mar 23 17:33:59 ifconfig? Mar 23 17:34:04 :p Mar 23 17:34:16 I shouldn't have to bring up a terminal on it, and tediously type that out Mar 23 17:34:34 hi! Mar 23 17:34:36 no, you shouldn't, but maybe this time you do Mar 23 17:34:40 * Chocks sobs Mar 23 17:34:57 i dont think my SIM card works =( Mar 23 17:35:06 saracen_: bug #666? Mar 23 17:35:26 saracen_: have you upgraded to "moko11" GSM firmware? Mar 23 17:35:36 * Chocks sobs more. the keyboard came up too wide Mar 23 17:35:58 Err, < new. All I've done so far is charged the phone and flashed to 2008.12 Mar 23 17:36:59 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GSM/Flashing (skip down to the "SD card" method) Mar 23 17:37:00 * Chocks discovers no IP address has been assigned. Mar 23 17:38:17 blah Mar 23 17:56:10 so... Mar 23 17:56:35 whadaya think would happen if we put...say...the Hurd as the FR's kernel Mar 23 17:56:55 good idea. It'll be ready as soon as we can make a phone call. Mar 23 17:57:06 hehe :) Mar 23 17:57:45 * rooly avoids lol, "but really i was refering to performance Mar 23 17:57:46 " Mar 23 17:59:24 got an ARM port of the Hurd? Mar 23 18:00:12 no...would it be difficult beyond modifying configs and then running make on it? Mar 23 18:00:39 yes Mar 23 18:00:55 drivers i assume Mar 23 18:00:57 we are talking some months of work, if there's no ARM support already Mar 23 18:01:01 everything. Mar 23 18:01:05 crap Mar 23 18:01:10 fsck that then Mar 23 18:01:35 And yes, you still need drivers after that. Mar 23 18:01:36 i don't have the time to invest in playing around like that Mar 23 18:01:53 just to likely half-brick my fr Mar 23 18:13:19 hello, when i try to make the image "MokoMakefile" with this command "make fso-gta02-testing-image" the error is "ERROR: Nothing Provides 'fso-image'". i use this tutorial "http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile" Mar 23 18:22:06 mmontour: That worked, thank you :) Mar 23 18:22:55 [2009-03-23 18:00:37] the trouble with u-boot is that it does all kinds of initialisation of hardware which means the kernel has to start from a slightly weird state Mar 23 18:23:34 uh, no. Kernel has to do no assumptions whatso ever about precious init of hw Mar 23 18:23:52 uBoot actually *does* some init. Mar 23 18:24:35 Kernel very faslely relying on some of these inits, though it shouldn't Mar 23 18:24:46 ugh. that's evil. Mar 23 18:24:52 wow Mar 23 18:24:54 that is bad Mar 23 18:24:55 gross Mar 23 18:25:04 no wonder its booted in debug Mar 23 18:25:07 and I seem to have a new hobby... Mar 23 18:25:14 leaving my FR at places... Mar 23 18:25:32 so not Qi is the solution, but part of the problem, and a clean kernel is solution to qi problem Mar 23 18:25:54 i'd deny Qi being part of the problem in this circumstances Mar 23 18:26:03 Qi helps finding the problem Mar 23 18:26:12 but Qi is not part of it, the Kernel ist Mar 23 18:26:16 well maybe I should s/problem/"problem"/ Mar 23 18:30:10 lol, s/precious/previous/ Mar 23 18:35:19 moo. Mar 23 18:39:19 the texting app is pretty damn cool, I was thinking "how is my finger going to press one of those letters" ;x Mar 23 18:44:15 which distro, saracen_ Mar 23 18:44:53 2008.12 Mar 23 18:45:23 Although, i cant work much else out, other than that it predicts based on where your finger was Mar 23 18:45:39 How do i do fullstops, for example =( Mar 23 18:46:02 saracen_: 2008.x is at end of life FYI Mar 23 18:46:29 whens the next expected release? Mar 23 18:46:45 * rooly wants to know this too Mar 23 18:47:35 saracen_: Read about paroli with FSO, that's what OM-the-company is going to release as the next official distro. Completely different comparing to 2008.x Mar 23 18:47:58 * rooly wants messaging to be more Mar 23 18:47:59 saracen_: or you can go community way and use SHR (FSO based too) which is community-driven. Mar 23 18:48:09 'per-conversation' as opposed to 'per-message' Mar 23 18:48:41 plus they really need to make sure that 1-xxx-xxx-xxxx and xxx-xxx-xxxx and recognized as the same thing Mar 23 18:48:52 rooly: SHR project is there for you to enjoy and hack. Just dig your C cross-compiler and improve the messaging app. Mar 23 18:48:53 saracen_: next release is aimed for june, see angus' mail to community and devel Mar 23 18:49:12 PaulFertser: the same goes for paroli :P Mar 23 18:49:18 except no C compiling Mar 23 18:49:34 mirko-paroli: yes, sure. :) Mar 23 18:49:35 paroli? Mar 23 18:50:25 mirko-paroli: it's a bit strange to see how many users don't know much about what's going on... Community updates really suck. Mar 23 18:50:34 PaulFertser: agreed Mar 23 18:51:09 however the information distributed in these channels here is rather biased Mar 23 18:51:13 but anyway Mar 23 18:51:27 just to make it clear, git access to paroli is only a patch away Mar 23 18:52:46 it's on parole? Mar 23 18:53:03 biased? what? here? Mar 23 18:54:55 mirko-paroli: it's historically biased. Because those who's active advertise what they like/work on. Some SHR devs even haven't used Zhone btw :) A natural law. Mar 23 18:55:39 PaulFertser: I just don't feel like debating again Mar 23 18:55:58 mirko-paroli: i too. Just explained why the information is biased. Mar 23 18:56:05 PaulFertser: we would probably reach some form of agreement again, as we believe in the same it seems Mar 23 18:56:11 mirko-paroli: can you give me a 2 setence summary of what the point of paroli is? Mar 23 18:56:14 PaulFertser: just not standing on the same side of the fence ... yet Mar 23 18:56:41 Chocks: why not read the official description? http://www.paroli-project.org/about-paroli/ Mar 23 18:56:48 I did. confusing. Mar 23 18:57:14 Chocks: plugin-based python daemon to connecting to FSO and develop apps on/in it Mar 23 18:57:20 oh sry Mar 23 18:57:26 half the sentence is missing Mar 23 18:57:31 * mirko-paroli goes searching for it Mar 23 18:57:51 * Chocks suggests the formatting on that page could be markedly improved Mar 23 18:58:17 * mirko-paroli is always happy to receive patches, even for non-code Mar 23 18:58:27 well, just fix the line wraps :p Mar 23 18:58:57 mirko-paroli: i promise i won't forget to mention Paroli next time i'll be talking about various distros/environments. :) Mar 23 18:59:01 in short, paroli is a layer between apps and fso, or that is the ultimate goal rather Mar 23 18:59:15 crazy middleware? Mar 23 18:59:17 PaulFertser: nah, i like it quiet and forgotten :P Mar 23 18:59:55 Chocks: the idea is to give non-programmers, or inexperienced ones and easy access Mar 23 19:00:10 so we take most of the heavy dbus fighting and fso registering etc Mar 23 19:00:24 and let the dev worry only about the app and the UI itself Mar 23 19:00:37 I see. And this fits into the goals of OM-the-company (OMTC)? Mar 23 19:00:48 NOTE: that is the plan Mar 23 19:00:49 not the reality Mar 23 19:00:59 hehe Mar 23 19:01:01 kinda Mar 23 19:01:02 :P Mar 23 19:01:14 Ok, different topic, what is GTA02v7? Mar 23 19:01:37 Chocks: the next PCB revision. Mar 23 19:02:13 Chocks: has a buzz fix and a weird cap lowering volume for the earpiece. AFAIK Mar 23 19:02:27 right. Mar 23 19:02:48 And what are the current/planned/pipedream changes for GTA03? Mar 23 19:03:31 ha Mar 23 19:03:33 Chocks: what is widely known is that it will have a capacitive touch-screen and will be more end-user targeted. Mar 23 19:03:57 Same CPU? Mar 23 19:03:57 Chocks: and it will not have that fucking glamo :) Mar 23 19:04:03 Chocks: no, better and faster. Mar 23 19:04:10 Chocks: S3C6410 Mar 23 19:04:25 what gfx chip? And almost certainly similar/same GSM hardware? Mar 23 19:04:42 Integrated graphical core, afaik. GSM hardware is much better. Mar 23 19:04:54 Ah yes. Mar 23 19:04:55 Chocks: EDGE support with a sane modern enough modem. Mar 23 19:05:01 right. Mar 23 19:05:51 same physical dimensions, buttons? Mar 23 19:05:52 only thing widely unknown but for sure is specs and even intention do do gta03 massively changed at least every 3 months Mar 23 19:06:01 heh. Mar 23 19:06:04 yes. Mar 23 19:06:21 DocScrutinizer: am i right in understanding that A7 rev won't include the ultimate buzz fix and only internal mic will be fixed? Mar 23 19:06:33 yup Mar 23 19:06:48 A7 is A6 with buzzfix Mar 23 19:06:58 big-C fix Mar 23 19:07:05 And a stupid earpiece cap :( Mar 23 19:07:31 well this one resurrected every once in a while Mar 23 19:07:47 need to short Mar 23 19:08:33 is the organisation taking part in gsoc? Mar 23 19:08:45 it's virtually impossible to find out about whether and when it was in for A4/5/6 Mar 23 19:08:45 znik: nope Mar 23 19:09:18 mirko-paroli: is thr any simmilar organization in gsoc? Mar 23 19:09:35 znik: I believe shr and fso tried Mar 23 19:09:36 not sure if they were admitted Mar 23 19:09:46 There does seem to be a lack of leadership and/or direction at OMTC. For example, the current sitation with software could have been hugely different by just supplying a degree of direction and goals to the community. Nothing overhanded, just something. Mar 23 19:10:06 mirko-paroli: thanks Mar 23 19:10:17 znik: sry it was a negative answer Mar 23 19:10:30 truly wish it would have been different Mar 23 19:10:42 mirko-paroli: i thnk so too Mar 23 19:10:59 is Michael Shiloh still doing stuff? Mar 23 19:11:16 PaulFertser: afaik current stock of A6 is reworked big-C to be same as A7 Mar 23 19:11:33 mirko-paroli: is thr any contributors program kind of thing for openmoko like OLPC! Mar 23 19:12:01 I *think* Michael left Mar 23 19:12:14 not sure what you are hinting at, but there is no funding from OM towards community development Mar 23 19:12:18 he got pretty quiet after FR went on sale Mar 23 19:12:19 afaik Mar 23 19:12:55 * Chocks is not hinting at funding, if you were talking to me. Mar 23 19:13:11 mirko-paroli: OLPC give XOs to ppl who would like to contribute in any kind.This way developers could test their programs real time! Mar 23 19:13:19 znik: ah Mar 23 19:13:38 znik: not sure, how that is handled now ... Mar 23 19:13:44 * Chocks appreciates that free hardware, etc, etc is often difficult/impractical. but that's not what I'm talking aobut. Mar 23 19:13:48 mirko-paroli: does OM deliver freerunner etc for testing purposes? Mar 23 19:14:16 znik: getting harder Mar 23 19:14:24 wow, you have questions, I am the gui guy ... not really involved in shipping, testing, marketing, sales or likewise Mar 23 19:14:30 but right now I wouldn't count on it Mar 23 19:14:54 but DocScrutinizer is the better qualified to answer those questions Mar 23 19:15:01 mirko-paroli: its ok! i was only considering of such an option Mar 23 19:15:17 DocScrutinizer: hi Mar 23 19:15:21 znik: once again, I think you are on the right track and wish it was done Mar 23 19:15:44 DocScrutinizer: getting harder???? Mar 23 19:16:01 I pushed hard to get the one for Ainulindale shipped Mar 23 19:16:48 now a lot of staff left who were very helpful back when Mar 23 19:19:31 (including myself ;) Mar 23 19:20:03 * mirko-paroli sheds a tear Mar 23 19:20:48 no sarcasm please, mirko-paroli ;) Mar 23 19:21:33 hej, DocScrutinizer that's not nice, I am not happy about all that, not at all Mar 23 19:21:45 quite the opposite Mar 23 19:23:18 mirko-paroli, i'm looking at paroli, and i'm wondering how i get what you have there working Mar 23 19:23:30 i'll search around to see if i can get it installed because it looks sexy so far Mar 23 19:23:48 the easiest is the imafe Mar 23 19:23:50 image Mar 23 19:23:56 what distro do you use? Mar 23 19:24:12 atm, i'm using qte 4.4.1 Mar 23 19:24:16 oh Mar 23 19:24:16 and rather hate it Mar 23 19:24:21 Anybody here personally tried Android on the freerunner? Wondering what it's like speed-wise Mar 23 19:24:30 pretty usable Mar 23 19:24:48 although still too many bugs to be practical in the current snapshots. Mar 23 19:24:51 rooly: are you good with booting from SD and all that ? Mar 23 19:24:58 What is the most usable distro atm, for everyday use? (Want to try that out, before I start hacking) Mar 23 19:25:24 saracen_: before anyone else says it: SHR Mar 23 19:25:29 PaulFertser: :P Mar 23 19:26:18 mirko-paroli: how about installing paroli on SHR btw, are there any incompatible dependencies? Mar 23 19:26:26 PaulFertser: should work Mar 23 19:26:31 think vininim tried it once Mar 23 19:26:43 mirko-paroli i've done it Mar 23 19:26:55 ah Mar 23 19:27:01 yeah, should be no prob Mar 23 19:27:24 mirko-paroli, i'm looking at paroli on your site and it looks rather sexy so far Mar 23 19:27:38 sexonnastick Mar 23 19:27:41 rooly: check http://downloads.openmoko.org/distro/unstable/NeoFreerunner/ Mar 23 19:28:31 there is a paroli image Mar 23 19:28:58 that boots directly into paroli and yes you can switch off the "full-screen" occupying devil ;) Mar 23 19:29:02 :o Mar 23 19:29:13 * rooly atm wants a phone for phone's sake Mar 23 19:29:36 rooly: that should work Mar 23 19:29:54 if you have patience with some of the other apps Mar 23 19:30:08 currently building a pager mechanism to make lists somewhat usable Mar 23 19:30:09 * rooly is a very patient person Mar 23 19:30:25 and zhone/fso were the most stable yet Mar 23 19:30:29 I was told calling works well Mar 23 19:30:32 the rest probably not so much Mar 23 19:30:50 should i use qi or keep my uboot Mar 23 19:31:05 What is paroli? =( I'm confused Mar 23 19:31:31 PaulFertser: good at creating a two sentence summary? Mar 23 19:31:32 I'll publish it on the page as well Mar 23 19:31:43 to have something to point to Mar 23 19:32:10 rooly: I believe in theory both should work Mar 23 19:32:12 rooly: qi Mar 23 19:32:41 * mirko-paroli hides as he has never managed to get it to work ... the booting from sd that is Mar 23 19:32:45 mirko-paroli: i'm not native, moreover i only read your description, so i won't dare :) You previous one-sentence explanation sounded very easy to understand btw. Mar 23 19:33:20 * rooly is good at summaries after experience using Mar 23 19:33:25 anyone here has more info on andy's leaving? Mar 23 19:33:30 My recommended approach is: Qi bootloader, single partition on SD holding kernel and rootfs, NAND kernel+rootfs that exports the SD-card as a USB storage device Mar 23 19:34:37 mmontour: why as a usb storage device? Mar 23 19:34:39 PaulFertser: in short, paroli is a layer between apps and fso, the idea is to give non-programmers, or inexperienced ones and easy access so we take most of the heavy dbus fighting and fso registering etc and let the dev worry only about the app and the UI itself Mar 23 19:34:41 This way Qi boots your OS from SD by default but you can use the Aux button to boot from NAND when you want to re-install the SD card Mar 23 19:35:06 * rooly doesn't want to boot from SD Mar 23 19:35:09 This avoids ever having to take the SD card out of the FR Mar 23 19:35:09 i want nand Mar 23 19:35:30 ...faster Mar 23 19:35:39 marginally, but still Mar 23 19:36:13 mirko-paroli: i'd mention the python plugin idea too, because many people feel like python is too slow and not having to start a new intepreter for every app is an obvious benefit. Mar 23 19:36:23 In that case I would stick with u-boot for now Mar 23 19:37:01 PaulFertser: ah k thx Mar 23 19:37:22 mirko-paroli, how might i set the time from paroli Mar 23 19:37:40 if you click on the time Mar 23 19:37:47 the colon should start blinking Mar 23 19:37:54 fawesome Mar 23 19:38:01 then you can adjust the time with the aux-button Mar 23 19:38:14 pressing == one minute Mar 23 19:38:22 holding == ... ehm ... Mar 23 19:39:16 yeah...i need hours... Mar 23 19:39:32 yeah it is 10 minute steps right ? Mar 23 19:39:42 i'm about to flash it as soon as it finishes Mar 23 19:40:04 i don't really care about flashing in and out images Mar 23 19:40:15 takes only a few minutes to set back my preferences in any distro Mar 23 19:41:35 i just hate having to reset the time by 18 hours every time... Mar 23 19:44:32 mirko-paroli: the much-behatred weird "will-sheme"? ;D Mar 23 19:44:56 LOL Mar 23 19:45:10 I wish I had time to do a propper settings app Mar 23 19:45:17 clock would be first on the menu ;) Mar 23 19:45:26 ack Mar 23 19:45:42 followed by, alarm, wifi, bt, gps, gprs Mar 23 19:45:49 and many many other fun things Mar 23 19:45:58 hehe Mar 23 19:46:20 sooooon Mar 23 19:46:22 :) Mar 23 19:48:23 flashing now Mar 23 19:48:49 mirko-paroli, i'll help out with what time i have Mar 23 19:49:36 rooly: would be great, but just to warn you, many got frustrated because of the guidelines I have to follow Mar 23 19:49:39 so my tip is Mar 23 19:49:47 if you like the design and the way it works in general Mar 23 19:50:30 feel free to create your own apps and explore what paroli is capable of doing because our reference apps are not exploring really ... Mar 23 19:51:12 rooly: I will also support you on that of course Mar 23 19:51:37 and happily so :) Mar 23 19:52:12 * rooly needs to learn python tho Mar 23 19:52:16 i'm a c/c++ coder Mar 23 19:52:18 ah Mar 23 19:52:26 you could also jump to phase 2 :) Mar 23 19:52:27 no, i need to learn python anyway Mar 23 19:52:37 to old to not know python Mar 23 19:52:41 hehe Mar 23 19:53:04 I think it is more like an odd dialect of C ... says me not knowing C :) Mar 23 19:53:14 lol Mar 23 19:53:45 ime, python is more reminiscent of c combined with a useable java Mar 23 19:54:22 * rooly is gonna stick with uboot Mar 23 19:54:57 * DocScrutinizer wonders where there is any diff between coding-lang following same pragma Mar 23 19:55:24 emacs! Mar 23 19:55:25 vi! Mar 23 19:58:10 so noone has any info on why andy left and how kernel development will look like in the future??? Mar 23 19:58:48 heh Mar 23 19:58:51 Linus. Mar 23 19:59:43 wtf andy left? Mar 23 20:03:00 Python has closures and other functional language features. Makes a lot of difference, afaik. Mar 23 20:04:43 bash, all the way, baby Mar 23 20:05:10 Defiant-: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2009-March/009574.html Mar 23 20:05:30 sleipnir: thx Mar 23 20:07:34 * rooly is about 70% done flashing Mar 23 20:11:55 * mirko-paroli hopes rooly is not too devasted after flashing ... Mar 23 20:12:01 lol Mar 23 20:12:11 qte4.4.1 is just a couple types away Mar 23 20:12:22 lol Mar 23 20:12:23 what is it youre flashing atm? Mar 23 20:12:29 fso-paroli Mar 23 20:12:35 ah, yeah, me too :P Mar 23 20:12:42 its a race then Mar 23 20:13:03 Firefox failed the download, so I resumed it with wget, while flashing... So, "stream flashing" doesnt work. Just incase you wondered. Mar 23 20:13:23 youre way a head, due to my streamflash failure :) Mar 23 20:13:44 lol Mar 23 20:13:45 ouch Mar 23 20:15:30 booting Mar 23 20:15:34 what package on shr has the predictive keyboard, or, how can i disable it from my list of keyboards? Mar 23 20:15:38 i take it paroli runs on a full x server Mar 23 20:15:51 rooly: yepp Mar 23 20:15:53 :o Mar 23 20:15:56 full X, bring it Mar 23 20:16:07 what about x forwarding Mar 23 20:16:11 ssh, baby Mar 23 20:16:20 back and forth? Mar 23 20:16:26 whatever you need to do :p Mar 23 20:18:16 asu doesn't do incoming x forwarding... Mar 23 20:20:47 * rooly laughs at the hand-drawn squiggle used for charging Mar 23 20:20:47 :o Mar 23 20:22:50 mirko-paroli how do i do things like scroll Mar 23 20:22:59 haha Mar 23 20:23:01 yeah Mar 23 20:23:04 welcome to my world Mar 23 20:23:13 etk scrolling has been broken since ages Mar 23 20:23:23 and elm segfaults on me all the time Mar 23 20:23:33 so I handcrafted a paging mechanism just now Mar 23 20:23:43 hope I get it into the image tonight Mar 23 20:23:46 moo. Mar 23 20:23:49 * mirko-paroli feels ashamed Mar 23 20:24:13 ashes to ashamed Mar 23 20:24:28 as long as your name isn't ashmed Mar 23 20:24:46 Chocks: uuuuu cheap :P Mar 23 20:24:56 cheap comedian? yessir. Mar 23 20:26:12 :) Mar 23 20:26:58 PaulFertser: In short, paroli is a layer between applications and fso. The idea is to give non-programmers, or inexperienced ones, easy access to the device. So the core takes care of most of the heavy dbus fighting and fso registering etc and lets the devs worry only about the app and the UI itself. Paroli is plug-in based and requires only a single python instance to run any number of applets and services. Mar 23 20:30:10 mirko-paroli: Sounds good to me :) Make FSO a hyperlink and probably everyone who can read will understand what paroli is after in a matter of seconds. :) Probably in some part of description you might want to add some "retaliation" to the claims you're re-inventing the wheel :) Mar 23 20:30:36 PaulFertser: LOL Mar 23 20:31:05 PaulFertser: following the talks on cdevel, i think there is more people that have the idea of an extra layer Mar 23 20:31:19 the dialer is kickin' ass Mar 23 20:31:42 I think i'm booting in.. Mar 23 20:31:46 * Chocks wants a kicked horse-donkey hybrid Mar 23 20:32:01 It said configuring a punch of kernel modules, now I have a black screen Mar 23 20:32:12 saracen_: patience ;) Mar 23 20:32:33 Ah, I see :P Mar 23 20:32:47 mirko-paroli: i'm usually afraid of extra layers. After having some experience with microsoft windows api over-engineering is scaring me. Probably some people feel the same. Mar 23 20:33:27 I/O Msgs Tele People... Mar 23 20:33:27 PaulFertser: it should always be optional Mar 23 20:33:31 Whats this? =( Mar 23 20:33:37 I/o = call logs Mar 23 20:33:40 Msgs = SMS Mar 23 20:33:43 Tele = Dialer Mar 23 20:33:47 People = PhoneBook Mar 23 20:33:51 should they be clickable? Mar 23 20:34:00 yepp, if they are still gray Mar 23 20:34:07 then you aren't registered yet Mar 23 20:34:20 if you have no SIM in the phone, wait 30 secs, the request times out Mar 23 20:34:26 and gives you access to the apps Mar 23 20:34:43 Ah, but I had to do the MOTO11 thing to get this sim to work Mar 23 20:34:47 MOKO* Mar 23 20:35:24 saracen_: once you did it, it works for every distro :) Mar 23 20:35:38 but I have to do it again? Mar 23 20:35:38 where is your latest images mirkjo? Mar 23 20:35:48 -j Mar 23 20:35:51 http://downloads.openmoko.org/distro/unstable/NeoFreerunner/ Mar 23 20:35:59 fso-paroli-image-om-gta02.jffs2 Mar 23 20:36:42 Do I just do the MOTO11 thing again? Mar 23 20:37:16 saracen_: iirc you flashed the modem firmware Mar 23 20:37:30 that is not affected by any distro flashing Mar 23 20:37:48 what about icq and pidgin Mar 23 20:37:59 I see Mar 23 20:38:09 mirko-paroli: GSM init timed out Mar 23 20:38:10 pidgin need a new version of pidgin but i can not find version 2.5.5 Mar 23 20:38:18 is there a solution ? Mar 23 20:38:24 saracen_: a sim you have in the phone ? Mar 23 20:38:30 * mirko-paroli sounds like yoda Mar 23 20:38:44 mirko-paroli: Yeah, the sim is in the phone Mar 23 20:38:51 hmm that is bad then ... Mar 23 20:38:53 900 years old, this good you look, hmmmm? Mar 23 20:38:58 Cant read messages from it, either. Mar 23 20:39:25 it means that the fso timed out Mar 23 20:39:52 *ponder Mar 23 20:39:53 * Mar 23 20:39:57 you could ssh into the phone Mar 23 20:40:01 and check the fso log Mar 23 20:40:05 or syslog in this case Mar 23 20:40:12 to see if the fso can read your sim Mar 23 20:40:18 any special SIM ? Mar 23 20:40:41 just an O2 P&G Mar 23 20:40:47 hmm Mar 23 20:42:08 where would i find these logs? Mar 23 20:42:23 do a logread in your console Mar 23 20:54:40 I keep getting dfu_upload error -110 while attempting to back up the rootfs partition using dfu-util. it doesn't always fail at the same point Mar 23 20:56:31 mirko-paroli: I restarted, it eventually registered Mar 23 20:56:51 saracen_: glad to hear that Mar 23 20:56:55 mirko-paroli: Anyway to turn up the volume on calls? Mar 23 20:57:00 http://pastebin.ca/1369552 Mar 23 20:57:17 saracen_: shoudl be clicking the aux button Mar 23 20:59:57 I can't even get 1/30th of the way thru the backup before it simply hangs and then dies with that error :-P Mar 23 21:00:12 SM2k: short answer = "give up" Mar 23 21:00:24 not an option :-P Mar 23 21:00:33 try harder ;-) Mar 23 21:00:37 hah Mar 23 21:01:07 There used to be a u-boot bug that broke dfu-util upload. I think (but am not sure) that it was fixed at some point. Mar 23 21:01:17 mmmmmontourmmm. Mar 23 21:01:29 so use nand. Mar 23 21:01:47 nope. no different Mar 23 21:02:21 * bjdooks breaks the usb analyser, again Mar 23 21:02:26 aw. Mar 23 21:02:27 SM2k: use linux? Mar 23 21:02:37 I am using linux :-) Mar 23 21:02:54 Is your NAND u-boot up to date? Mar 23 21:03:21 I'm using gta02v5_and_up-u-boot.bin from 2008.12 Mar 23 21:03:34 hmm I never heard this type of failure with "good" usb-cable then Mar 23 21:03:41 I couldn't find one for SHR when trolling the repos Mar 23 21:04:16 DocScrutinizer: the cables likely good. It's worked without fail for a number of devices, I've just never tried to back up before. Mar 23 21:04:30 checked the git log - 2008-10-07 "Fix DFU upload in u-boot" Mar 23 21:05:11 U-Boot 1.3.2-moko12 (Dec 17 2008 - 00:49:17) Mar 23 21:05:42 :o Mar 23 21:06:07 switched cables. same result. that's one variable removed. Mar 23 21:06:21 anybody have a clue what -110 is? Mar 23 21:06:46 SM2k: backup is borked to the point of downloading whole partitiom then -110 Mar 23 21:07:05 can anyone explain to me how i can update the version of elementary in shr-testing? Mar 23 21:07:13 DocScrutinizer: I'm getting a variable number of bytes before failure Mar 23 21:07:35 mirko-paroli: If I was to install debian, think paroli would run on top of it? Mar 23 21:08:03 took the hub out of play just in case Mar 23 21:08:05 saracen_: not before we get a full elementary version ready, there is no etk package for debian Mar 23 21:08:20 SM2k: nobody cared so far as backup this way is a non-sense Mar 23 21:08:26 fingers crossed. this looks better Mar 23 21:08:36 DocScrutinizer: oh? Mar 23 21:09:00 scp / to host-pc Mar 23 21:09:09 flash new image Mar 23 21:09:18 DocScrutinizer: of really? ok Mar 23 21:09:20 restore config files Mar 23 21:10:00 I assume this is because the size of the partition doesn't match the size of the image? Mar 23 21:10:09 using scp another time Mar 23 21:10:30 I normally wouldn't try to back up / like that cause trying to copy /proc or /sys does nasty things Mar 23 21:10:52 what kind of config files would need to be touched up after than process? Mar 23 21:11:20 hmm it's a little more work than just copying /, I admit Mar 23 21:11:25 by the by. it really was the hub causing issues. plugging directly into the machine caused the error to go away. Mar 23 21:12:18 heh, thaat's written in wiki, isn't it? ;D Mar 23 21:12:24 so this image I'm pulling off the openmoko can't/shouldn't be flashed back onto a device? Mar 23 21:12:57 SM2k: you may try. might even work Mar 23 21:13:20 It is important that you connect the USB cable directly from your computer to your phone. If there is a hub between them, backup (and flashing) will mostly likely fail. aye the text your refer to is present. :-) Mar 23 21:13:28 just nobody seen any use in doing this so far Mar 23 21:14:16 * DocScrutinizer running to get some pizza now Mar 23 21:14:41 DocScrutinizer: well, I'm trying to provision a base image to flash to multiple phones. in the interest of time I'm trying the admittedly lame approach of building a base image manually. I'll script building the image later Mar 23 21:18:43 fair enough. Please report whether flashing your freshly created backup works Mar 23 21:19:08 it occurs to me I might need to delete ssh keys since I've booted the phone once. Mar 23 21:19:20 anything else I should scrub in your mind? Mar 23 21:21:48 SM2k: (ssh keys): `ssh -o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null root@192.168.0.202` ?? Mar 23 21:23:01 test Mar 23 21:23:17 test Mar 23 21:23:24 eh? no I'm more concerned with the fact that I'd have multiple phones with the same server keys Mar 23 21:23:31 hi tomboy64 Mar 23 21:23:37 hihi Mar 23 21:23:47 SM2k: bit for creating an image to flash mutliple phones yeah probably scrub them Mar 23 21:23:48 I assume that's what "test" is for Mar 23 21:24:04 :-D Mar 23 21:24:05 no Mar 23 21:24:22 i removed pre- and postfix from my timestamps and nick-displays Mar 23 21:24:29 wooow, rain, hail, and **LiGhTnInG** outside :D Mar 23 21:24:34 so that i can see moooaaar text Mar 23 21:24:36 DocScrutinizer: well one things certain, this "bloats" the image. Mar 23 21:26:42 hrm. mebbe easier to just go snag an ubuntu liveCD and use ipkg... Mar 23 21:28:36 oops ^ reboot my router at home :o Mar 23 21:29:27 SM2k: (bloats) this tiny keyfile? Mar 23 21:29:39 SM2k: it is possible to mount a jffs2 image on your pc using 'mtdram', make changes, then create a new image with mkfs.jffs2 Mar 23 21:30:12 nah. dfu-util an 88M image to the phone then retrieve it with dfu-util and you get a much larger image back off Mar 23 21:30:18 mmontour: yes Mar 23 21:30:20 mmontour: that's the way, yup Mar 23 21:30:21 I do that Mar 23 21:30:25 but I don't have ipkg Mar 23 21:30:41 so I can't install a couple of packages I need to Mar 23 21:30:45 opkg Mar 23 21:30:46 :p Mar 23 21:31:02 aye Mar 23 21:31:10 SM2k: as I told ya: backup will get the whole partition Mar 23 21:31:16 yes Mar 23 21:31:28 you may be able to fake it with 'ar' (.ipks are 'ar' archives containing a 'data.tar.gz' with the actual files) Mar 23 21:31:57 SM2k: prbably your image is 256M then Mar 23 21:32:07 mmontour: I built my ipk files by hand actually. doesn't the system have some sort of package database I'd then need to futz with? Mar 23 21:32:28 DocScrutinizer: will be after it downloads. this is slow. :-) Mar 23 21:33:17 yeah some 40min presumably Mar 23 21:33:18 the FR uses "opkg", similar to ipkg but with different bugs Mar 23 21:33:29 lol Mar 23 21:33:48 it has much *better* bugs ;) Mar 23 21:34:04 I didn't want to pass judgement on them Mar 23 21:34:09 at least you didn't refer to them as undocumented features Mar 23 21:34:45 can anybody explain me why bitbake -c rebuild elementary still gives me an old version of Elementary? Mar 23 21:35:03 fsk, now weather is ok again, and pizza bakery is closed :( Mar 23 21:35:16 toolchain has a copy of opkg-cl iirc Mar 23 21:35:46 DocScrutinizer: sucks Mar 23 21:37:04 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * r029e859d539d 10/vapi/ecore.vapi: ecore.vapi: add FdHandlerFlags and ExeFlags Mar 23 21:37:05 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * rf40799346258 10/examples/library/ (Makefile.am mainloops.vala): mainloops: more work on inter-thread-communication infrastructure Mar 23 21:41:25 Will i run in to problems if I use for 4GB microsd card? Mar 23 21:42:24 saracen_: there's no reason you should have trouble. Mar 23 21:42:56 come to think of it, what's the max parition size for FAT32? Mar 23 21:45:50 hah. DocScrutinizer by the by, the moko hits dfu_upload error -84 when you try to back up the entire partition exactly as http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-August/026773.html Mar 23 21:46:08 * SM2k tries mtdram Mar 23 21:46:26 mmmmmmmmmmmmmoooooooo! Mar 23 21:53:01 saracen_: There was some page on wiki with list of compatible cards and problematic ones. Mar 23 21:56:42 That list would be http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards Mar 23 21:59:11 mmontour: I mounted my image in ram to make changes. I made the mtdram exactly the same size as the original image... when I try to make changes, I get "no space left on device" Mar 23 21:59:51 I assume therefore that I need to make the mtfram bigger than the original image? not familiar enough with the inner workings of jffs2 Mar 23 22:00:34 mtdram Mar 23 22:01:12 mtdram may not let you modify files in-place. Just copy the directory tree to your hard drive and work on it there ("cp -a" or similar to preserve permissions, device files, etc). Mar 23 22:01:43 ah. that makes sense. Mar 23 22:02:11 http://mhonarc.axis.se/jffs-dev/msg01316.html <<< it might let me, but making mtdram exactlyt he same size isn't going to help my cause Mar 23 22:02:49 I assume it's possible to reconstruct a new jffs2 filesystem image after making my modifications Mar 23 22:03:30 "mkfs.jffs2". You need to tell it the eraseblock size (128K) and tell it to use padding. I don't remember the exact command-line args to do this Mar 23 22:04:03 that's enough to go on I think. :-) thanks Mar 23 22:34:52 I'm not sure what's going on with ecore_input, but building e17 is causing me all kinds of problems Mar 23 23:20:11 mickey|zzZZzz: examples/library/mainloops.vala:55.13-55.23: error: The name `close' does not exist in the context of `Posix' Posix.close( writefd ); Mar 23 23:27:04 hm, it's me. Mar 23 23:27:25 dunno why bitchx took 3 hours to auto-rejoin Mar 24 00:17:53 hi Mar 24 00:53:08 hi Mar 24 00:53:26 I want some one open minded and have time to speak with Mar 24 01:00:26 this paroli seems very fast Mar 24 01:00:59 speak your mind somebody willl answer Mar 24 01:02:06 in the openmoko channel,, openmindedness is abound Mar 24 01:03:46 so is there not anything else in paroli? Mar 24 01:03:56 a keyboard Mar 24 01:04:14 a way back to my computer maybe? Mar 24 01:06:26 gggfgfgfgf Mar 24 01:06:41 sorry, interweb connection failure Mar 24 01:13:31 openmokomindedness Mar 24 01:20:06 Good evening. Mar 24 01:24:33 Chox Mar 24 01:24:47 ok Mar 24 01:25:13 how do you imagine yourself manipuling the openmoko ? Mar 24 01:25:21 in the futur ? Mar 24 01:25:23 Telepathy? Mar 24 01:25:26 by gesture ? Mar 24 01:25:27 Mind control? Mar 24 01:25:28 :D Mar 24 01:25:30 ;) Mar 24 01:25:34 it exists !! Mar 24 01:25:34 hehe Mar 24 01:26:07 sure ! it really exists Mar 24 01:27:04 HOOK IT TO YOUR BRAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIN! Mar 24 01:27:10 ... just watch out for zombies ;) Mar 24 01:46:30 Dave Mar 24 01:47:22 well, been using SHR for a day now. Let's just say it needs some work :p Mar 24 02:09:43 Dave: howdy Mar 24 02:10:33 watch wetware wirus err virus, Dave ! ;D Mar 24 02:21:20 ignore the (soft) registration deadline <- (about the developer challenge) does that mean 'a day later is also okay'? Mar 24 02:31:39 Some testing on how much extra IO journaling really does, in light of SSD wear (though it leaves a bit open if there's a lot of write amplification and stuff going on on SDs) Mar 24 02:31:44 http://thunk.org/tytso/blog/2009/03/01/ssds-journaling-and-noatimerelatime/ Mar 24 02:43:16 mjr: nice link. It's good to have some actual numbers instead of just hand-waving. Mar 24 02:46:45 and back Mar 24 02:47:03 * rooly is so totally gonna hack up mirko-paroli's apps **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Mar 24 02:59:57 2009